< 1272672034 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION huggles his vim
< 1272672047 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I can't get ffplay to work on the IREX, and I don't know why :(
< 1272672138 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Hey! Listen!
< 1272672140 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Ignoring the fact that it's ridiculous to run it there ;) )
< 1272672275 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, Parrot's Brainf*** bench.b doesn't seem worthy of the name, doesn't do much (prints 'Z'..'A')
< 1272672560 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the "QuickBasic" [sic] thing is a compiler only but seems somewhat reasonable (if the README is to be believed)
< 1272672625 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has Wumpus, for example   ;-)
< 1272672720 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, "Befunge" Parrot maintainer is Quelin, go figure
< 1272672856 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone ever wondered what the worst poem ever would look like?
< 1272672870 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lo, for I have penned a travesty on the topic of emacs and vi: http://pastie.org/941004.txt?key=3p1yec1kcynj1rblir8a
< 1272672896 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It actually took effort to write that badly.
< 1272672930 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially rhyming repent with vio-lent.
< 1272672952 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also winner/dinner/winner.
< 1272672978 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not normal to rhyme a word with itself, is it?
< 1272672984 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, "Bush hid the facts"
< 1272673000 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, it breaks Notepad.
< 1272673002 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: No :P
< 1272673022 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, Notepad can edit > 64k since NT-based (XP) became common
< 1272673039 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure what "[vi] can't handle 2k" means, though
< 1272673040 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sssh.
< 1272673045 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: A petty insult, clearly!
< 1272673051 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rms is 2cool4u.
< 1272673070 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Notepad can't even handle *nix line endings, and it adds a UTF-8 BOM (which is invalid)
< 1272673092 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wordpad > Notepad   ;-)
< 1272673094 0 :jcp1!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272673097 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but I use neither, honestly)
< 1272673132 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nicely done, alise
< 1272673148 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ****ing hate the UTF-8 BOM.
< 1272673153 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except you didn't mention "vi vi vi" nor "free software vi is a penance"
< 1272673155 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nicely done?
< 1272673158 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was meant to be bad!
< 1272673167 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it was spectacularly so
< 1272673167 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Yes, well, I had to fit within the poem structure; and I'm tired.
< 1272673174 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yayyy
< 1272673175 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one project I work on I have to make sure I add the BOMs before I commit
< 1272673188 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :****ing piece of **** Windows
< 1272673189 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION imagines this is how Beowulf was penned
< 1272673191 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It commits so many atrocities against proper rhyming form.
< 1272673201 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, vićity is just ludicrous.
< 1272673209 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That... makes it seem like people where you work code in Notepad or something
< 1272673250 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... UTF-8 BOM? *What the fuck*?
< 1272673263 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, it's a Notepad thing   ;-)
< 1272673265 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, it's more of a magic number for UTF-8
< 1272673282 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yes
< 1272673293 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Also I couldn't grasp the meter at all
< 1272673297 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: MURDER. MICROSOFT. DEVELOPERS.
< 1272673308 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: That's because it has no meter.
< 1272673315 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just switched to indenting when I couldn't make it rhyme.
< 1272673318 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would do it
< 1272673320 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes it rhymed anyway.
< 1272673325 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, whaddya know. A UTF-8 BOM is actually explicitly allowed by Unicode.
< 1272673335 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except Notepad REQUIRES it
< 1272673337 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since when? I thought they disallowed it
< 1272673344 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is recommended you avoid it, but it is allowed.
< 1272673361 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Since always, it seems.
< 1272673362 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... it's Friday already?
< 1272673365 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you sure? even in UTF-8 explicitly??
< 1272673373 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1272673379 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UTF-16, sure, but I thought it was bad for UTF-8
< 1272673401 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a stupid idea, but it's permitted.
< 1272673446 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably because of braindead things like No<twitch>pad
< 1272673462 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Dawkins is a clown" ... eh?
< 1272673473 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "use as a signature" thing is in the BOM FAQ, http://unicode.org/faq/utf_bom.html#BOM
< 1272673533 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, I'd imagine that *requiring* a BOM for UTF-8 is a big violation of the spec.
< 1272673536 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also refers to a "particular protocol (e.g. Microsoft conventions for .txt files) --"; wonder if there's any other examples.
< 1272673550 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, that's what it was, the damn BOM mucks up the shell script shebang thingie
< 1272673580 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fairness, why anybody would ever use Notepad for serious text editing is beyond me ...
< 1272673585 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Simple fix for that on Linux.
< 1272673597 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Notepad++ is consistently one of the most popular projects on SourceForge
< 1272673598 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Write a simple shebang parser that ignores a leading BOM.
< 1272673636 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then, register 0xEFBBBF as a magic number for an executable format, with your shebang parser as the program to handle it.
< 1272673642 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Voila. Shebang now works.
< 1272673659 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or ... just don't use Notepad   ;-)
< 1272673663 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(requires the miscellanous executable format module and procfs)
< 1272673680 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MS EDIT ftw!!   ;-)   j/k
< 1272673695 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :edlin ftw!   ;-))
< 1272673702 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ed.
< 1272673707 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not edlin. ed.
< 1272673720 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you've got four choices on Windows:   Notepad, Wordpad, edit, edlin
< 1272673729 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, gcc ignores the BOM; that's at least user-friendly.
< 1272673742 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clang doesn't: test.c:1:1: error: expected identifier or '('
< 1272673752 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That's... Quite surprising *and* well-done of GCC.
< 1272673761 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thought it odd that LLVM 2.7 doesn't have a MinGW compile of Clang
< 1272673798 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LLVM-gcc42 ... check, Clang ... nope!
< 1272673843 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, I should test if llvm 2.7's clang compiles that ff3.
< 1272673851 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: clang has about 0 Unicode support currently
< 1272673882 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clang uses "LANG=C" ?      ;-)
< 1272673903 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clang 2.7 appears to have a regression in its support of computed goto.
< 1272673911 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd file a bug but it appears to have been filed already.
< 1272673922 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assembler messages: "Error: symbol `.LBA3_run_' is already defined" times 145. Aw. :/
< 1272673927 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1272673933 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the regression in question, in fact.
< 1272673943 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I noticed one bug about that, but I thought I saw the word "fixed" in there somewhere.
< 1272673953 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It fails hardcore at generating new names.
< 1272673957 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh? Fixed?
< 1272673964 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess I'll reopen it then.
< 1272673966 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was an earlier thing.
< 1272673976 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see what was it I found.
< 1272673997 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://llvm.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=6608 This?
< 1272674016 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that.
< 1272674034 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. Yes, it's fixed, but it's not in 2.7.
< 1272674048 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is retarded. I'd call that a release-breaker.
< 1272674071 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Computed goto, that's some evil hacker-cracker thing, better not speak about it."
< 1272674298 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fixed over a month ago, apparently
< 1272674405 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how the heck can LLVM srcs be 8 MB but the test suite is like 68 MB ?!?
< 1272674424 0 :jcp1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I will do anything (almost) for a new router.
< 1272674564 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, am I allowed to make a joke?
< 1272674590 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure.
< 1272674597 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: it's very well-tested software. :)
< 1272674602 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should move to Reddit Island!
< 1272674753 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: They pride themselves on testing the code generator.
< 1272674779 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with what exactly? that's fairly huge for a test suite
< 1272674807 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything
< 1272674872 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously they didn't test computed gotos!
< 1272674875 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Not compared with Sqlite.
< 1272674904 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which actually tests for correct behavior at (and I am not kidding) each and every branch.
< 1272675232 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahh, computer gotos.
< 1272675246 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/r/d/
< 1272675569 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Arizona, "teachers with accents" can no longer teach English.
< 1272675576 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is so fucking dumb I cannot describe it.
< 1272675592 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You find me a person without an accent and I'll show you someone that's mute.
< 1272675600 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guh?
< 1272675680 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least it'll stop people with American accents teaching English.
< 1272675692 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good :P
< 1272675705 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: There's a large number of incomprehensible UK accents, too.
< 1272675718 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes.
< 1272675723 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But they're uncouth.
< 1272675726 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but there's only ONE incomprehensible American accent ;)
< 1272675739 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RP speakers will be banned from teaching English too.
< 1272675739 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway they don't count as British because I can't even understand Geordies so they don't exist Q.E.D.
< 1272675756 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But RP is a bit too posh!
< 1272675869 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RP?
< 1272675880 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arizona is going a _leetle_ crazy
< 1272675918 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Recieved Pronounciation.
< 1272675930 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means what exactly?
< 1272675930 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "posh" and "educated" UK accent.
< 1272675942 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1272675979 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Received Pronunciation is the accent of the Queen.
< 1272675992 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, it isn't actually defined as that; but it's as good a guide as any.
< 1272676007 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's actually all right most of the time, but some people take it Way Too Far.
< 1272676012 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Such as, say, the Queen herself.)
< 1272676021 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: actually, the Queen's accent has been shown to slip towards Cockney over the last decade or so
< 1272676026 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Random phrase from a related article: "advocate ethnic solidarity instead of the treatment of pupils as individuals."
< 1272676031 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Hah
< 1272676032 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it surprised me when I discovered that there were actually people who /measured/ these things
< 1272676033 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough then.
< 1272676068 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find it strange that when people think of ethnic solidarity, they think of the alternative as being pupils-as-individuals.
< 1272676098 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see the alternatives as being stuff like gender solidarity, national solidarity, political solidarity, and so on.
< 1272676100 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272676137 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My favorite one, and the one I advocate, is universal solidarity.  We're all people; let's stop fighting purely over the fact that we're different.
< 1272676139 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My actual accent is extremely boring; it seems that no outside influence has passed over it.
< 1272676161 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's a very generic British accent, really.
< 1272676172 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise just once looked at the English alphabet and came up with a sound to match each letter; that's his accent.
< 1272676191 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh.
< 1272676199 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My accent is pretty much General American made more pedantic. :P
< 1272676234 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Judging by what people ask when they say "Why do you have a ____ accent?", I have a British accent.
< 1272676315 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really dislike the American accent; it has this persistent nasal whining present all the time.
< 1272676325 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is a nasal whining?
< 1272676326 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like the average American attitude, actually.
< 1272676339 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I have a nasal whining attitude.
< 1272676341 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: The sort of "ahh" - a sort of "r" vowel - repeated constantly in the background of every tone.
< 1272676343 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A very nasally sound.
< 1272676346 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry; I can't explain further.
< 1272676348 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even know IPA.
< 1272676371 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders what sort of "ahh" a British person would consider a sort of "r" vowel.
< 1272676380 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean Jay Leno whining or something else?
< 1272676411 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By "tone", do you mean "vowel"?
< 1272676459 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION loves this game
< 1272676486 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Perhaps. I've really no idea.
< 1272676516 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if you listen to, say, some BBC newsreporting, and then any American person, you'll notice a distinct sound underlying all the American's speech that does indeed seem nasal in nature that isn't present in the news report.
< 1272676527 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps it's only if you haven't grown up with American accents around you.
< 1272676545 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on the person ... I wouldn't consider Barry White nasally   ;-)
< 1272676550 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh.
< 1272676560 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: You've probably just heard the more nasaly American accents.
< 1272676569 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of them are, in fact, annoyingly nasal.
< 1272676587 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True; not being American, my exposure is biased.
< 1272676621 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Others are anything but. American accents are quite varied.
< 1272676646 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But they're all inferior to British ones :P
< 1272676656 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION listens to a certain American accent and finds it rather horrible.
< 1272676670 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the horrible accent: http://accent.gmu.edu/browse_language.php?function=detail&speakerid=121
< 1272676685 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: You got rid of rhoticism your argument is invalid.
< 1272676705 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no speakers at the moment.
< 1272676736 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION finds an American accent that sounds pretty good.
< 1272676741 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://1pd.org/play/4479_exploit.aspx
< 1272676754 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come on, say it: "AAAARRRR".
< 1272676761 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yarr!
< 1272676763 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: *Rhotacism.
< 1272676765 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swordfights pikhq.
< 1272676786 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I truly believe that the ae and oe ligatures should be used whenever possible in all typeset works; am I barmy?
< 1272676804 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that the dićresis is quite honestly superior to hyphenation.
< 1272676809 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Absolutely. Most of those result from overcorrection.
< 1272676817 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The dićresis diacritic, that is.
< 1272676837 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Most of what?
< 1272676848 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instances of "ae" and "oe" ligatures.
< 1272676852 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION blinks.
< 1272676860 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's really easy to press Command-Q by accident.
< 1272676871 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. Hypercorrection, even.
< 1272676886 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I tell Chrome to reopen all those tabs I just closed?
< 1272676896 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Really? I suppose I should mention that I also think that the spelling of words that used to have "ć" but now sport "e" should be reverted, too.
< 1272676905 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, see History
< 1272676917 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'd write ćsthetics, not esthetics.
< 1272676917 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing useful seems to be in there.
< 1272676940 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't do it for the purpose of hypercorrection though. I just think it's more, well, ćsthetically pleasing.
< 1272676944 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't argue for ćs ćverywherć.
< 1272676955 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Ă¦" and "oe" become "e" in Latin in the Middle Ages. And then they got re-expanded *the wrong way*.
< 1272676963 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use "ae" inconsistently.
< 1272676977 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And quite often the "reversion" happened *when it had never been there*.
< 1272676985 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like aesthetics and anaesthesia, but I would never consult an encyclopaedia.
< 1272676991 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you agree that "ćsthetic" and "dćmon" are correct?
< 1272676994 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance: it's fucking "fetus", not "foetus".
< 1272676999 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I really hate paedophiles.
< 1272677002 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I'm not sure I wouldn't write "demon".
< 1272677011 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes.
< 1272677027 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And encyclopćdia? What about pćdophilia?
< 1272677037 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know fśtus was incorrect.
< 1272677042 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it fćtus, then? :P
< 1272677050 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's always been "fetus".
< 1272677060 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah.
< 1272677062 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough then.
< 1272677069 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww, fśtus looks so much better :-P
< 1272677076 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The word fetus is from the Latin fetus, meaning delicious,"
< 1272677109 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"encyclopaedia" is the Latin spelling.
< 1272677122 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Rugxulo
< 1272677140 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, neat, "encyclopedia" means "circular education".
< 1272677141 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"pedophilia", "paedophilia", and
< 1272677150 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"pĂ¦dophilia" are all completely bizarre.
< 1272677161 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They come from "paidophilos".
< 1272677203 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well I'm not spelling it paidophilia, so what should I do?
< 1272677209 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, encyclopćdia is nice, so I'm going to keep spelling it that way.
< 1272677219 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least encyclopaedia; I refuse to devolve into writing encyclopedia.
< 1272677222 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1272677224 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, how do you pronounce "foetus", anyways? "foe - etus"?
< 1272677238 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fowey eetus.
< 1272677256 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAGH LATIN FAIL
< 1272677259 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1272677274 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foĂ«tus
< 1272677276 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, pedophilia is a hard word. (Har har)
< 1272677305 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to have gone from Latin to paedophilia in German to pedophilia in English.
< 1272677427 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Encyclopćdia Britannica is a preëminent encyclopćdia.ą
< 1272677427 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. Note: The author does not actually believe this.
< 1272677495 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm, delicious diaresis and actually correct uses of ligatures.
< 1272677520 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :diarćsis, you uncouth bastard.
< 1272677538 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only problem with that word is that it makes me think of diarrhea.
< 1272677569 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We were both wrong.
< 1272677575 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Orally?
< 1272677582 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a.k.a. O rly?)
< 1272677594 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah it's dićresis
< 1272677596 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's "dieresis", "diaeresis", or "diĂ¦resis".
< 1272677627 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, can I have a lot of money? I have an urge to buy some wonderfully-printed books.
< 1272677765 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... And Fox News goes off the deep end *again*.
< 1272677773 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Calling Mr. Rogers evil.
< 1272677781 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mister. Rogers.
< 1272677784 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read the reddit comments on that; apparently the evil mark was clearly a joke.
< 1272677787 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*remark
< 1272677806 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate Fox News as much as the next sentient being, but did anyone actually watch the video before getting outraged? I know I didn't.
< 1272677826 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, less jabbering, more money to me.
< 1272677930 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION loves not hanging out with friends on his birthday :(
< 1272677939 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quit whining and do something interesting.
< 1272677949 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ÂˇAy.
< 1272677951 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Good life advice most of the time, actually.)
< 1272677957 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iAy, from Apple.
< 1272677963 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I don't know how
< 1272677972 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's difficult to do something interesting when you feel like something bad is going to happen.
< 1272677983 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, don't we count as friends? :P
< 1272677991 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Think about things you're interested in, then wait; Eureka, now write down what you thought.
< 1272677995 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like right now.  I feel like as a result of my choices, the outcome is going to be unacceptable.
< 1272678007 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Which choices?
< 1272678011 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And so now whenever I think about doing something, I go "aiee!"
< 1272678032 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: choices like going to the wrong college and not doing the required work.
< 1272678041 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also failing to take advantage of opportunities.
< 1272678044 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: How old are you again?
< 1272678046 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And not making friends on campus.
< 1272678052 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17, at the moment.
< 1272678057 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been going to arguably the wrong college for almost 3 years
< 1272678079 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Well, you are still very young, then, and your college studies have only just started.
< 1272678085 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, most of my college friends approached me. I didn't ever initiate friendships
< 1272678085 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: what am I supposed to be outraged at?
< 1272678086 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION rages
< 1272678087 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can easily go to another college and work harder there with no disadvantage at all.
< 1272678089 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, once, very recently
< 1272678091 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: :-)
< 1272678105 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, I'm surprisingly good at feeling generically angry
< 1272678110 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, I surprised myself
< 1272678116 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually am angry atm, and I have no idea what at
< 1272678116 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: So plan that, and do it, and don't worry about it too much because in the end if you're smart it won't really matter because you'll know if you're not doing the right thing.
< 1272678128 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: MR ROGERS! HNRRRRRRRRRR!
< 1272678136 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... I think!
< 1272678143 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1272678149 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, now I feel like I don't know what to be scared about.
< 1272678165 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: oil spills off the US coast? the entire economy about to collapse? politics in general?
< 1272678175 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exploding supervolcanos? the LHC creating black holes?
< 1272678186 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chickens taking over the world???
< 1272678188 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There, I just thought about a project I'd like to do, and I had a little bit of an "aiee" reaction.
< 1272678198 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What projekt?
< 1272678225 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A mathematical prediction market and proof database.
< 1272678237 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lay off the Robin Hanson.
< 1272678283 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Robin Hanson came up with a specific application of prediction markets.  My project idea has nothing to do with Robin Hanson.
< 1272678299 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but Hanson is a big fan of prediction markets. So there :P
< 1272678312 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1272678320 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, okay, O'Connor likes them too and O'Connor is cool, so you're permitted.
< 1272678328 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What language would the proofs be in?
< 1272678335 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I'm not a person who has negative feelings about Robin Hanson.
< 1272678338 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some constructive one like Coq or Isabelle?
< 1272678339 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking Ivor.
< 1272678342 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So yes.
< 1272678346 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ivor is not a proof language.
< 1272678351 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is just a Haskell library.
< 1272678353 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you mean Idris?
< 1272678356 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is not very proof-focused at all.
< 1272678373 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I mean Ivor.
< 1272678374 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I strongly suggest that if you are going to do actual proofs you should have a language with actual proof infrastructure; so Idris, Agda etc. are out.
< 1272678383 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh.
< 1272678387 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd strongly suggest Coq or Isar+Isabelle.
< 1272678408 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, okay.  I'm not familiar with Coq whatsoever (modulo grammar), so what advantages does it have over something like Agda?
< 1272678414 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isar has really nice proof structures actually: http://vdash.org/intro/cantor.html at least for the current crop of constructivist meanderings.
< 1272678422 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Here's why Agda is totally unsuitable for this:
< 1272678447 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- it is not one concrete theory, just a bunch of features - admittedly so; it has been proved inconsistent several times, which is fixed by patches. Coq is based on one, very mathematically tested, tiny kernel theory.
< 1272678461 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has only been proved inconsistent once, I think, and that was a bug in Coq, not the underlying theory.
< 1272678467 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And was very easily fixed.
< 1272678474 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And the example was a very contrived one).
< 1272678475 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And:
< 1272678507 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- Agda has very little infrastructure for the actual prover; proving is basically a trial-and-error, run-and-repeat task. With Coq and similar, the proof is an interactive process that automatically shows assumptions and goals for you and lets you step and rewind proofs step by step.
< 1272678523 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is amazingly useful in proving even the simplest theorems; instead of a complete spark out of nowhere, you can do proofs incrementally.
< 1272678539 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And finally, Coq has actual practical proofs underlying it -- Goedel's First Incompleteness Theorem, for instance.
< 1272678541 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody really uses Agda.
< 1272678555 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isar is like Coq but with a more declarative proof style; I think it is less interactive. I don't know much more about it.
< 1272678565 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'A patent pool is being assembled to go after Theora and other â€śopen sourceâ€ť codecs now.' -- Steve Jobs.
< 1272678587 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So. Fuck you, Steve Jobs. You make Microsoft look open.
< 1272678591 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mizar, while proprietary, has a very comprehensive database of mathematics already and a very readable declarative style. It is not constructive though.
< 1272678599 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: And that's most of what I have to say on the matter!
< 1272678607 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmkay.  I don't know what Ivor is based on; I seemed to get the idea that it's based on some sort of formal theory, though not a specific one I've heard of.
< 1272678611 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yup, I pretty much hate Steve Jobs now.
< 1272678627 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What you say about the interactive proving stuff makes sense.
< 1272678633 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: I think it is the same one that underlies Coq. But it's really a library, a framework for building on. It's barely suitable for writing programs in directly, let alone proofs of any complexity.
< 1272678637 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Steve Jobs specifically, or Apple in general?
< 1272678643 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can think of arguments for either
< 1272678644 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Idris is a competent dependently-typed programming language based on it, but with next to no proof infrastructure.
< 1272678646 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Both.
< 1272678663 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in other news, apparently IE9 <video> supports only H.264
< 1272678669 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fact that Ivor is a library is precisely why I wanted it.
< 1272678682 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it seems Microsoft are more afraid of Firefox than Safari
< 1272678697 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the theory underlying Ivor is the same as that of Coq, doesn't that mean you can use Coq to create a proof and Ivor to verify it?
< 1272678715 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Right, but build a tactic or declarative proof engine, with all the necessary underlying tactics and intelligence, etc., plus interactive interface?
< 1272678724 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems pointless unless you're going to add something over Coq and similar.
< 1272678729 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Theoretically yes, but you'd have to translate their notations etc.
< 1272678733 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods.
< 1272678742 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I think Coq has a few small extensions to the theory (that are almost-certainly-consistent; and you can disable them)
< 1272678817 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Mind you, I'd wait for /my/ language which will make /everything/ great...
< 1272678843 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmkay, so Coq has a front-end that makes it easy to create proofs.  I guess that's the important thing.
< 1272678859 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, but Microsoft being Microsoft, they'll probably implement h.264 so poorly that it's actually m.264.
< 1272678867 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. But the resulting proofs aren't all that readable. But you can step through them and understand them. They just often need more documentation than a declarative proof.
< 1272678872 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would make me happy if I could use a language that has a direct Haskell interface, but I guess that's not necessary.
< 1272678873 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does m.264 exist?
< 1272678876 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a declarative extension to Coq but it isn't much.
< 1272678882 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: You won't need that for proofs.
< 1272678891 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Now, another suggestion I have to make: avoid Coq's standard library numerics.
< 1272678893 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I'm giving a name to the inevitably broken implementation they will have.
< 1272678897 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, I'd avoid most of Coq's library altogether.
< 1272678908 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I shall stick this alongside MHTML and MCSS.
< 1272678911 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is not all the formally constructed. You will want to build things up from magmas onwards.
< 1272678913 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how badly /can/ you break a video codec?
< 1272678915 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And MJavascript.
< 1272678925 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: MJavascript = JScript
< 1272678926 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without it being obviously wrong?
< 1272678932 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*all that formally
< 1272678943 0 :Rugxulo!~rugxulo@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272678947 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I had a concrete reason for wanting to go with something written in Haskell.
< 1272678957 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lunacy? Haskell addiction? :)
< 1272678960 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: These are the guys who stuck 3 boolean types in their API.
< 1272678965 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1272678982 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't want to go through all the trouble of making one program run another program?  :P
< 1272678988 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of which is only a boolean in *name*.
< 1272678991 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ok, point granted, but that seems easier to do for insane reasons than messing up a video codec such that it's broken but not obviously so
< 1272678993 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: I warn you that if you travel down the wondrous path of type theory-based theorem provers, you /will/ find yourself at the very bottom, musing about the turtles.
< 1272678996 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, only three?
< 1272679001 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might even start to believe there's an end to them... but that's just madness, isn't it?
< 1272679005 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought they had at least 0/1, yes/no, on/off, true/false
< 1272679013 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BOOL, BOOLEAN, and TRUE_BOOLEAN
< 1272679017 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I'm trying to say is expect to start taking the metainformation like quantifiers and arrows and the like from mathematical statements,
< 1272679021 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then removing all the rest
< 1272679024 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and jumbling it up a bit
< 1272679032 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int with 0 and 1, short with 0 and -1, and char with -1 and 0, IIRC.
< 1272679035 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you'll consider that just as useful & relevant.
< 1272679054 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And some functions returning BOOLEAN will also return 1.
< 1272679062 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As a third possible result.
< 1272679102 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most languages have a FILE_NOT_FOUND; âŠĄ.
< 1272679116 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, who are you talking about?
< 1272679123 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: This is in addition to âŠĄ.
< 1272679125 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Microsoft.
< 1272679135 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides that the gate {0 -> 0, 1 -> 1} should be called an OT gate.
< 1272679151 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: I call it "a piece of wire".
< 1272679160 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I call it aether
< 1272679177 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such things actually find a useful place in electonics.
< 1272679193 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suppose you have one gate whose output is used as the input to 65,536 other gates.
< 1272679204 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Also, if you venture down constructivist ways, be expected to have your intuition defied.
< 1272679205 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One gate can't provide that much output current, so you use a bunch of OT gates to help.
< 1272679205 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, wires are useful.
< 1272679207 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what API?
< 1272679208 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: I call {00 -> 0, 01 -> 0, 10 -> 1, 11 -> 1} a MOV gate
< 1272679211 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after the asm instruction
< 1272679213 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Win32.
< 1272679218 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :native?
< 1272679225 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, the most common construction of the subset of the reals you can construct, you can't prove the trichotomy of the reals in.
< 1272679230 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I like that name.
< 1272679230 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I think there are constructions which alleviate this.
< 1272679247 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Yes, those 3 types are all normal parts of the Win32 API.
< 1272679252 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*And* the Win16 API.
< 1272679259 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders how you prove the trichotomy of the reals in Dedekind cuts.
< 1272679263 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the win32 and win16 APIs have the same tpyes
< 1272679264 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*types
< 1272679267 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're just different sizes
< 1272679274 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and note that those are uppercase typedefs.
< 1272679276 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: appeal to not-not, basically
< 1272679289 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no real that doesn't satisfy some horn of the trichotomy
< 1272679292 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, right, and not-not doesn't exist in intuitionistic logic.
< 1272679293 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In addition to their random hungarian typedefs and such.
< 1272679294 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore all reals satisfy it
< 1272679300 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They also have a CHARP typedef.
< 1272679308 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: i don't think you can do dedekind cuts in constructivist settings... dunno
< 1272679308 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is, unsurprisingly, a char*.
< 1272679313 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: mostly we do it as cauchy sequences
< 1272679325 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f : Q+ -> Q, such that forall e1, e2:Q+, |f e1 - f e2| <= e1 + e2
< 1272679325 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yeah, you'd have to pretty much write a function that takes two reals and compares them.
< 1272679335 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm thinking a continued fraction representation might be nicer
< 1272679339 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: one of the most memorable bits of the Win32 API is the way it uses lpcsz as a relatively common Hungarian prefix
< 1272679345 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for "long pointer to constant zero-terminated string"
< 1272679348 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, yes.
< 1272679351 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, they do.
< 1272679360 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i think you can prove <0 =0 >0
< 1272679361 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you represent a real number as a predicate on rational numbers, then... darn, you don't get equality.
< 1272679365 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and indeed <rat =rat >rat
< 1272679370 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lots of stuff is uncomputable, of course.
< 1272679372 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not <irrat =irrat >irrat
< 1272679378 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because comparing infinite structures is impossible)
< 1272679384 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to simply use a NotNot monad!
< 1272679384 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, yeah, it's just all compromises
< 1272679398 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: does the definition rule out the possibility of infinitesimals?
< 1272679398 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: otoh, you can just axiomatise the reals and not give a shit that there's no model of your axioms
< 1272679409 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: infinitesimals aren't even reals in non-standard analysis.
< 1272679414 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it rule out the possibility of a smallest positive number?
< 1272679416 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I know
< 1272679418 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once tried to write ZFC in Agda as a term model.
< 1272679422 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that doesn't mean that axioms would necessarily rule them out
< 1272679427 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless they were written for the possibility
< 1272679429 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the idea of simply writing the axioms.
< 1272679430 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess inftes = [0; 0, 0, 0, ...infinite 0s..., 1]
< 1272679439 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: But that's very unconstructivist, and constructions are Nice.
< 1272679441 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to think of possible flaws in the axioms
< 1272679452 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: If you're going down that route, just add the LEM as an axiom.
< 1272679455 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Problem" solved.
< 1272679472 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, then half my proofs wouldn't be runnable!  Which isn't much of a problem.
< 1272679472 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm interested in the best construction of the computable reals. So ask me sometime if you're interested too.
< 1272679481 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'd rather mark which ones are runnable and which aren't.
< 1272679482 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: But you also wouldn't be able to write /programs/.
< 1272679492 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And programs are nice, especially when they're all theoretical and shizz.
< 1272679493 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: "Best"?
< 1272679500 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hard to say.
< 1272679501 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: most useful.
< 1272679511 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarski%27s_axiomatization_of_the_reals are pretty
< 1272679520 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now back to people giving me money!
< 1272679543 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gives alise $100i.
< 1272679549 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1272679559 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how I would feel about receiving $100i.
< 1272679560 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: why are you demanding money?
< 1272679564 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need real (actually, rational) money to buy prettily-printed books.
< 1272679564 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why are you expecting to /get/ it?
< 1272679577 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Because I'm adorable.
< 1272679583 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: ambivalent, I suppose
< 1272679591 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: It'd certainly make your accounting complex.
< 1272679597 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As for your first question, because I'm trying to get some money to [waste?].
< 1272679630 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I wanted to have exactly a certain amount of money, I would be disappointed at receiving $100i.
< 1272679640 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you wanted $100i.
< 1272679646 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, right.
< 1272679650 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: you could always give it to someone else
< 1272679661 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that'd be too complex.
< 1272679662 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I wonder if you should accept $100i or not if someone offers it to you
< 1272679663 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's imaginary money.
< 1272679664 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I had a real amount of money and wanted exactly a certain real amount of money.
< 1272679669 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, if they offer you a negative amount of money, you should refuse
< 1272679674 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That's a complex matter...
< 1272679686 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has this turned into the IRC equivalent of a pun thread?
< 1272679697 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's imaginary.
< 1272679704 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: I strongly suspect you want a subset of a real amount of money.
< 1272679704 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...not too many puns, really.
< 1272679712 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if people can simply give each other arbitrary amounts of money, positive or negative, then there's no reason to worry about money, because you can always get money.
< 1272679746 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably a positive real amount.
< 1272679746 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Intuitively, I think the positive amounts of money should be defined as those where the absolute value of the imaginary part is less than the real part.
< 1272679748 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: well, assuming gifts can be refused
< 1272679767 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you have to define the amounts of money that a person can have.
< 1272679777 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I have $5, I can't give someone $8 and be left with $-3.
< 1272679779 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or if you prefer being easy to deal with, a positive *computable real* amount.
< 1272679782 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: but if you had an imaginary amount of imaginary money, wouldn't it have a negative absolute value?
< 1272679793 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever you just said, no.
< 1272679803 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not having a mapping to the naturals makes my computer cry)
< 1272679810 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd love to find a mathematical theory in which that /did/ work, though
< 1272679814 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, I know!
< 1272679829 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We'll say that the amount of money you have must always be an integer.
< 1272679839 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In what units?
< 1272679846 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cents.
< 1272679853 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which?
< 1272679854 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have $100i, you must gamble until that amount becomes an integer number of cents.
< 1272679861 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whichever; it doesn't matter.
< 1272679879 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, Ripple.
< 1272679910 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So. Zimbabwe cents then.
< 1272679920 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure.
< 1272679989 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The metal in such a coin would be worth 30-odd orders of magnitude more than the coin itself.
< 1272680004 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assume that you don't have access to the coin itself, just the money.  :P
< 1272680032 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(mmm, 6.5*10^108% inflation...)
< 1272680046 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zimbabwe reset their currency recently; then abandoned it altogether.
< 1272680072 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, we can say that anyone is allowed to gamble in any manner as long as the gamble is fair, and has no chance of causing the person's amount of money to become negative.
< 1272680159 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then we'll define "negative" as the absolute value of the imaginary part being greater than the real part.
< 1272680177 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't really gambling if it isn't risky. :P
< 1272680193 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I have $100, betting $100 is risky!
< 1272680197 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I gamble 1 billion dollars" 1 loss away "Yeah, I don't have 1 billion dollars" "You owe me all the money bitch." Bam. Negative money.
< 1272680199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: it is risky, because you might go from a positive ownership to a smaller positive ownership
< 1272680210 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STILL :P
< 1272680215 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, suppose I have $100, and somebody gives me $100i.  Now the amount of money I have is on the very border of being negative.
< 1272680220 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or, more likely, negative life-having)
< 1272680225 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no gamble I can make can push me away from that.
< 1272680231 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: in other words, zero-equivalent?
< 1272680232 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So this seems like a pretty bad thing.
< 1272680240 0 :cheater2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1272680262 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, if I have $100 + $100i (bad) and someone else has $100 - $100i (also bad), we can just trade and each end up with $100 (good).
< 1272680281 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Subject: 	[SPAM?] ?spam? Stop spamming
< 1272680286 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spammers get more creative all the time...
< 1272680303 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So in this system, having imaginary amounts of money is generally a bad thing, I think.
< 1272680323 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: you've defined three quarter-planes as negative, and the other as positive
< 1272680339 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's what I meant to do.
< 1272680379 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sneak-peek on the current incoming spam: there's one with a RTF attachment. I haven't seen very much of that.
< 1272680406 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I wonder if it contains an exploit?
< 1272680431 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I looked at it with a text editor; it seems to just contain some hyperlinks to .ru URL's, and that's about it.
< 1272680442 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also \generator Msftedit 1.32.47.3014;
< 1272680595 0 :cheater2!~cheater@ip-80-226-14-216.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272680654 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/byilp/c_compilers_disprove_fermats_last_theorem/>: could some redditor point out that signed overflow in C is undefined?
< 1272680658 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they all seem to have missed the fact
< 1272680672 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a compiler can optimise a loop into anything at all if it can prove that it requires an integer overflow at some point
< 1272680795 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the original thing require an integer overflow? The a, b, c integers there are limited to be <= 1000, after all.
< 1272680862 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, missed the difference between MAX and INT_MAX
< 1272680906 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does say in the text that MAX=1000 because 2*1000^3 is still <2^31.
< 1272681295 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit curious if they throw away a reasonable infinite loop like that. My version of clang doesn't.
< 1272681326 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I have just not enabled enough optimilizations.
< 1272682043 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try some -O3.
< 1272682144 0 :bsmntbombdood!~gavin@97-118-187-215.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272682546 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`bef 05-:+.@
< 1272682547 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1272682552 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run bef 05-:+.@
< 1272682553 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1272682558 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, someone test that please
< 1272682609 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, okay, never mind, that doesn't show what I wanted anyways
< 1272682628 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try this:    &:+.@  (where your input is -5)
< 1272682662 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bef = good, fbbi or ccbi = bad
< 1272682878 0 :Alex3012!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services
< 1272683065 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1272683302 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :& does not read negative numbers.
< 1272683322 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since when?
< 1272683337 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the original interpreter handles it okay
< 1272683347 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since always.
< 1272683348 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Decimal input reads and discards characters until it encounters decimal digit characters, at which point it reads a decimal number from those digits, --"
< 1272683355 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- is not a digit.
< 1272683377 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Befunge inherently handles a signed 32-bit stack!
< 1272683388 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can print negative numbers too, so why not accept them as input?
< 1272683426 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :	   case '&':            /* Input Integer */
< 1272683427 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :	     {
< 1272683427 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :	       signed long b;
< 1272683427 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :	       if (infile)
< 1272683427 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :	       {
< 1272683427 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :		 fscanf (fi, "%ld", &b);
< 1272683427 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :		 push (b);
< 1272683441 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's even more wrong then.
< 1272683459 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which, the spec or the author or (God forbid) someone else   ;-)
< 1272683478 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The code you pasted, w.r.t the spec.
< 1272683483 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a very strictly specified behaviour when the number would overflow.
< 1272683508 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Specifically, it must not read the digit that would cause an overflow.
< 1272683544 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It reads "up until (but not including) the point at which input characters stop being digits, or the point where the next digit would cause a cell overflow, whichever comes first."
< 1272683577 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if I agree that he strictly meant '0'..'9' as "digits" here
< 1272683587 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume he just meant signed long int
< 1272683627 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But those *are* decimal digits. And anyway I don't think fscanf would unread the digit that would cause an overflow.
< 1272683635 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that since the spec is so very detailed, people have generally taken it pretty literally.
< 1272683649 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FBBI does it like you say (apparently), and it does indeed do ungetc()
< 1272683662 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you referring to B93 or B98 here?
< 1272683681 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That fscanf won't even skip the non-digits in front, just space.
< 1272683690 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moop moop.
< 1272683699 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :void fi_idec   (ip * i)
< 1272683699 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{
< 1272683699 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  fflush(stdin);
< 1272683699 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  do
< 1272683699 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  {
< 1272683699 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    i->a = (long)0|fgetc(stdin);
< 1272683700 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    if ((i->a >= '0') && (i->a <= '9')) ungetc(i->a, stdin);
< 1272683700 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  } while ((i->a < '0') || (i->a > '9'));
< 1272683701 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  if(scanf ("%ld", &i->a) != EOF)
< 1272683701 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  {
< 1272683702 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    ip_push(i, i->a);
< 1272683702 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  } else
< 1272683703 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  {
< 1272683703 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    ip_reverse(i);
< 1272683704 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  }
< 1272683705 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :}
< 1272683718 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :B98 is what I quoted, have to check B93 too.
< 1272683730 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's from fbbi (just quoted)
< 1272683789 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's "get a numeric value (in decimal)" for B93, so you have much more freedom for variation there.
< 1272683918 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That fbbi code seems to properly skip non-digits until it encounters a digit, but I don't think it necessarily reads the number itself right, unless scanf's %d conversion guarantees that (it just might).
< 1272684028 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't notice anything like that in my man page though.
< 1272684293 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't see why it wouldn't let you do so, esp. if it handles signed numbers by default
< 1272684332 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Funge-98 overflow check is not completely trivial to implement, since it isn't just a length limit; for 32-bit cells, if you've read "214748364" so far, you must read the next digit if it's 0..7, but leave it in the stream if it's 8 or 9.
< 1272684349 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-198.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272684353 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1272684372 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really know C, but I thought it handled these things
< 1272684373 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And of course in C you can't let the actual overflow happen.
< 1272684404 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I'm thinking of strtol(), I dunno
< 1272684471 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't: "if the result of the conversion cannot
< 1272684475 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :be represented in the space provided, the behaviour is undefined"
< 1272684512 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Source: interwebs; reading the standards is too awkward with the phone.)
< 1272684585 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strtol doesn't do it right either; it reads all digits and clamps the value to LONG_MAX.
< 1272684620 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, well, you could say that's "right", but not the Funge-98 right.
< 1272684660 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The "it" in "it doesn't" up there was scanf.)
< 1272684661 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-198.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272684669 0 :Alex3012!~chatzilla@ool-18b989d3.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272684769 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :entering -3 billion for bef prints 1294967296
< 1272684787 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for fbbi, same input prints -1294967296
< 1272684825 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should give 300 million.
< 1272684835 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it doesn't   ;-)
< 1272684854 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ccbi is correct and fbbi is wrong, then
< 1272684865 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As for why it doesn't handle negative numbers: like I said, since the spec is so exact on the number-reading algorithm, people (at least those I know) have just been implementing exactly what it says there without customizations.
< 1272684879 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which, IMHO, is a bit suspect since I assume the original creator/author knew what he was doing   ;-)
< 1272684914 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's not quite like the t case, for which the spec taken literally is quite useless.
< 1272684977 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is also testing Parrot + their Befunge [93] a bit
< 1272685081 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems they had two minor bugs, and I'm not sure I pointed out (fixed?) them correctly, honestly not sure they even *care* (argh), but anyways, done my duty trying   ;-)
< 1272685105 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make that three bugs, but the third has to do with not loading a .dll file correctly (and I dunno why, only found silly workaround)
< 1272685149 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Exploit potentially TC?
< 1272685228 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nights, now; already around 05:40am here.
< 1272685276 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k
< 1272685287 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yawnnnnnnnnnn
< 1272685316 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love finite derivatives so much
< 1272685915 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: bored
< 1272686201 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also death
< 1272687134 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1272687233 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to: yawn. No, sleep.
< 1272687235 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Motivation stores are empty.
< 1272687290 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wooo! Just finished the story mode of Exploit
< 1272687380 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sleep! Must sleep! -- no sleep; fuckitol.
< 1272687446 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION puts alise to sleep
< 1272687457 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Permanenterelrely?
< 1272687483 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you can extenderlongeratitionermatabilityenactingnesserateabilitynesseratinger a word, that means you are tired
< 1272687511 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is either creepy or a murderer, depending on how you look at what I said
< 1272687524 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, creepy either way, really
< 1272687586 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, pretty creppy
< 1272687589 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...creppy XD
< 1272687654 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FEDERAL
< 1272687659 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Federal 4:20 am it is
< 1272687884 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4:24; even worse
< 1272689595 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272689819 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :melament
< 1272689930 0 :melament!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :lament
< 1272690332 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ping; if you don't respond I may get so bored as to actually embed myself
< 1272690408 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION embeds alise in a webpa.. that sounds WRONG, and I just wanted to sound geeky
< 1272690417 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::|
< 1272690526 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1272690863 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"embed myself"
< 1272690864 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hot
< 1272690966 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: that irex thing
< 1272690975 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there anything for it with some form of handwriting recog?
< 1272690997 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not to my knowledge, but if there's anything for GTK+ it may be portable to the IREX.
< 1272691017 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just thinking about it as a platform for mathsy stuff.
< 1272691031 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Being able to scribble mathematical notation and have it interpreted would be ubernice. Still that response time though.
< 1272691118 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frankly I think you've got a pipe dream thar :P
< 1272691131 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mathematical notation recognition is actually pretty alright
< 1272691138 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just the stupid eink :(
< 1272691165 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, you know the ... what is it, Graffiti - input thing for PDA?
< 1272691172 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where you, like, draw specialised symbols.
< 1272691178 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything like that for the rexy i?
< 1272691256 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The IREX has only an onscreen keyboard as its default input method for general text.
< 1272691268 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yess but has anyone ported anything else
< 1272691312 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not to my knowledge.
< 1272691324 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That might be even simpler, it uses Matchbox and Matchbox has such a thing already IIRC.
< 1272691382 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The DR800 is reeeelatively new, very little has been ported to it. I was the first person to port rxvt to it, so that should give you an idea.
< 1272691447 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worth entry cost?
< 1272691512 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. Certainly the overpriced Euro one isn't, but if you can get a US one shipped, maybe.
< 1272691626 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just can't bring myself to buy an internet-using, lovely-tablet-screen-having, X11-running mobile device that isn't useful for IRC.
< 1272691631 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So some good input method is a must.
< 1272691688 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just ported cellwriter to it, let's see if it's useful :P
< 1272691763 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's 5:28 am. you are not helping! :)
< 1272691778 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so given up on the wearable computing thing eh
< 1272691790 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"IREX Technologies is the world's leading provider of e-reading solutions" yeah sure
< 1272692275 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: WAS IT
< 1272692281 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need to know before i bludgeon myself to sleep
< 1272692317 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My porting job was sufficiently incomplete that I don't have an answer, it shows up as a full screen app and as such can't be used to actually input into anything yet :P
< 1272692386 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hurry up this is actually physically hurting me :P
< 1272692392 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, Android soft keyboards are fullscreen, and useful for input
< 1272692478 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's useful on touch, not tablet.
< 1272692582 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eeaaat the tablet
< 1272692586 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fucking awesome tablet made of rocks
< 1272692590 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeaaaaaaaaaah
< 1272692594 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now that is my signal that it is almost 6 am.
< 1272692662 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"imperviosity" rhymes with "having sex with a tree"
< 1272692708 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just thought you might like to know
< 1272692897 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also "glorious midgets that are also alteregos of a doctor" does not rhyme with "glue"
< 1272692911 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and at that point i ask Gregor once more before embedding myself
< 1272692977 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PORNOGRAPHIQUE
< 1272692984 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is my response.
< 1272693149 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ANSWER MY FUZUKING QUESTION YOU tree :|
< 1272693153 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I |NEED SLEEP
< 1272693288 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I will haunt you 4eva 'n eva
< 1272693492 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: PLEASE ANSWER ME :(
< 1272693573 0 :bsmntbombdood_!~gavin@174-16-203-114.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272693580 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION watches alise die from sleep deprivation
< 1272693583 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1272693616 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1272693780 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1272693954 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-34-17-217.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1272694936 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1272694937 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu
< 1272695236 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
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< 1272697158 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1272698151 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1272698594 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1272699160 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1272700799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1272700800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272701059 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I will do anything (almost) for a new router.
< 1272705954 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
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< 1272706462 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom_H@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272706494 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272707498 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1272708014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Rugxulo> AnMaster, which MicroEmacs? the most "active" variant was/is JASSPA <-- good point
< 1272709930 0 :adam_d!~Adam@cpc2-acto6-0-0-cust48.brnt.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272710036 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272710254 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272712183 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1272714471 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
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< 1272716394 0 :hiato!~fdulu@41-132-16-47.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272717626 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Coyote finally caught me
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< 1272721456 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1272721603 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1272721610 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1272721872 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1272722484 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: underflow
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< 1272722512 0 :jmorrow!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1272723642 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1272723660 0 :hiato!~fdulu@41-132-16-47.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272723889 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272724138 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1272724927 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@129.241.210.68 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272725494 0 :alise!~alise@212.183.140.53 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272725551 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ay
< 1272725559 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: so did it work
< 1272725867 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1272726486 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: quit quit quit quit quit quit quit
< 1272727495 0 :alise!~alise@212.183.140.37 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272729208 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Reboot
< 1272729273 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-player-shmaracter
< 1272729390 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@129.241.210.68 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272729701 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan
< 1272729708 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1272730205 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more eso-forum spam
< 1272730304 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, it's over a month since the last one
< 1272730313 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just looks a lot when no one posts there :D
< 1272730321 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*+like
< 1272730431 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1272730693 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is "pushed on the stack" and "pushed to the stack" equally valid?
< 1272730753 0 :pineapple!~pineapple@cpc3-aztw11-0-0-cust24.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272730761 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*are
< 1272730787 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm or onto, maybe
< 1272730803 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is trying to proofread the Calculon article
< 1272730865 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: both are valid, yes
< 1272730875 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pushed to sounds weird
< 1272730878 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on or onto, yes
< 1272730880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan
< 1272730885 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0-9 -- The value is pushed onto the stack.
< 1272730888 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION need ais btw around now
< 1272730890 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi AnMaster
< 1272730900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well
< 1272730914 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no need to answer btw, alise already did ;)
< 1272730959 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calculon's argument order seems to be the reverse of forth
< 1272731060 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you can't find some well established software in debian repos you know it is some very niche you are dealing with...
< 1272731073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in this case, a cycle accurate x86 simulator)
< 1272731084 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION changes first and last to top and bottom for clarity
< 1272731102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, which way does the stack grow ;P
< 1272731110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it grows down this may be even more confusing
< 1272731132 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um i'm assuming "top of stack" is a standard term
< 1272731145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, true, was just trying to confuse you ;P
< 1272731148 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: calculon?
< 1272731152 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think stack of plates on a spring, is what i hear
< 1272731164 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: someone's new language on wiki
< 1272731165 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is he the new autobot that does calculus?
< 1272731170 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1272731189 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically a slightly weird forth
< 1272731215 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird like how
< 1272731251 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :botte will do calculus!
< 1272731254 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just as soon as i write it.
< 1272731273 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the argument order is backwards, and it looks like looping will be a bit weird
< 1272731292 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly.  it's still under construction
< 1272731327 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://blog.regehr.org/archives/140
< 1272731331 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so this was linked on reddit
< 1272731365 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which reminds me of a discussion i had with some idiot somewhere
< 1272731374 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about whether or not it was possible to detect infinite loops
< 1272731387 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he insisted that to detect _any_ infinite loop required solving the halting problem
< 1272731426 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of idiots think that.
< 1272731434 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all programs running on our computers can be halt-checked by a supersupercomputer
< 1272731453 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :certainly I'm sure haltchecking a regular 4gb 2ghz dualcore comptuer could be done with a computer that would fit into the universe
< 1272731460 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i think :-)
< 1272731467 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously it could be done by a turing machine
< 1272731474 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;)
< 1272731476 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: well the word "any" is ambiguous in english ;D
< 1272731500 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: *even one
< 1272731538 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its actually not ambiguous, tho. its a choice function, so it has properties that seem like "all" and properties that seem like "some"
< 1272731589 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's ambiguous in that particular context
< 1272731645 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, like i said, its not ambiguous, it's just a choice function which means that it simultaneously has properties of both universal and existential quantification
< 1272731653 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# No optimizations:
< 1272731653 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#CFLAGS = -O1 -g3 -march=pentium4 -mtune=k8 -falign-functions=16
< 1272731653 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also a weird word to norwegians, we don't really have any that work like that
< 1272731654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1272731663 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that i can recall
< 1272731664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was an interesting definition of no optimisations
< 1272731714 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(any and some are both translated as "noe(n)", usually)
< 1272731733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The recommended optimisation flags for this are (no this is not cfunge!, nor am I involved in this project): -O3 -g -fomit-frame-pointer -pipe -march=core2 -msse4.1 -falign-functions=16 -funroll-loops -funit-at-a-time -minline-all-stringops -fno-trapping-math -fno-stack-protector -fno-exceptions -fno-rtti -funroll-loops -mpreferred-stack-boundary=4 -fno-strict-aliasing -Wreturn-type
< 1272731818 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-ftoo-many-flags
< 1272731844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, agreed. However, it is an x86 emulator. Those sometimes have special needs
< 1272731851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compared to "usual" programs I mean
< 1272731872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm it fails to link with "undefined reference to <various libc string functions>"
< 1272732026 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what the relation to the continuum hypothesis with type theory is
< 1272732037 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if there are types with cardinality inbetween t and (t->bool)...
< 1272732040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay it seems to be because it doesn't link to libc (duh)
< 1272732048 0 :hiato!~fdulu@41-132-16-47.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272732058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also uses a custom linker script as far as I can tell
< 1272732130 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: well of course there are, take a finite type
< 1272732142 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I mean infinite t
< 1272732143 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if t has 3 elements, t -> bool has 8
< 1272732148 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at least as big as the naturals)
< 1272732164 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because my definition of cardinality is based on it...
< 1272732173 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the generalized continuum hypothesis, then
< 1272732173 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically my beth numbers can only take naturals not ordinals atm though
< 1272732183 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. but what is its status in set theory?
< 1272732191 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :independent, i think
< 1272732197 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er i mean
< 1272732198 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in type theory
< 1272732209 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I represent "x has cardinality beth n" (I've avoided aleph because beth is a closer match) by a bijection from x to Infin n
< 1272732209 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck if i know ;D
< 1272732216 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where infin is repeated ->bools over the naturals
< 1272732239 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so of course this only lets you express all cardinalities if the generalised continuum hypothesis holds in set theory... it probably does though
< 1272732244 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least, is a fine axiom to add
< 1272732257 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i vaguely recall some result that says you can choose the beths to be a fairly free subset of the alphas
< 1272732261 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in set theory)
< 1272732265 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how to represent ordinals; I'll need ordinally beth numbers sometime.
< 1272732273 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But beth n for natural n will do for now.
< 1272732291 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are some restrictions, but a lot of leeway
< 1272732302 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, *subclass
< 1272732368 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION can now write "nat [has cardinality] beth 0"
< 1272732370 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :syntax, fuck yeah
< 1272732407 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: cantor normal form can get you a way above the naturals, at least
< 1272732430 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is also cool :)
< 1272732444 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in set theory it can, nothing is certain in type theory :)
< 1272732451 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Theorem naturals_are_beth_zero : nat [has cardinality] beth 0.
< 1272732453 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  apply infinite_cardinality.
< 1272732453 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  compute.
< 1272732453 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  exists (id (A:=nat)).
< 1272732453 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  exists (id (A:=nat)).
< 1272732453 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  auto.
< 1272732457 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Qed.
< 1272732467 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now to prove something more interesting, like option A adding 1 to A's cardinality
< 1272732469 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: well it's pretty certain you get ordinals out of it, i should think
< 1272732473 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means I need cardinal arithmetic
< 1272732487 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cantor normal form is pretty constructive afaiac
< 1272732510 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A [has cardinality] n -> option A [has cardinality] succard n
< 1272732518 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You little succard.
< 1272732609 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the annoying thing is I don't just need ordinal arithmetic
< 1272732615 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I have both "finite n" and "beth n" cardinalities
< 1272732620 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I need separate cardinality-adding functions
< 1272732703 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1272732707 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :food ->
< 1272732709 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Theorem fin_n_has_cardinality_finite_n {n} : fin n [has cardinality] finite n.
< 1272732722 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in_coq_we_often_repeat_ourselves : In Coq, we often repeat ourselves.
< 1272734133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now THIS is strange. the thing work correctly when running under strace or under gdb, but not when running stand alone
< 1272734141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no there is no core to analyse, it just exits
< 1272734152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and I need -f (follow forks) for it to work under strace
< 1272734496 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1272734576 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is now legal for me to drink alcohol
< 1272734592 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shocking!
< 1272734608 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, happy birthday
< 1272734615 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank you!
< 1272734761 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, happy birthday!
< 1272734765 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would have said it sooner but you hadn't spoken
< 1272734767 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272734776 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, don't drink too much booze!
< 1272734804 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, geez, 21.
< 1272734808 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :way too high drinking age
< 1272734840 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait it's 21 for _all_ alcohol?
< 1272734856 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in norway it's 18 for non-distilled
< 1272734879 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Used to be âž
< 1272734899 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what?
< 1272734973 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... the drinking age.
< 1272734981 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh unicode
< 1272735019 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can't read Unicode, you ĹźĹ«Ä‹Ä·.
< 1272735077 0 :myndzi!myndzi@tengototen.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272735121 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: happy birthday!
< 1272735136 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can, i just have to go to the logs to do it ;)
< 1272735155 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and to do so i have to suspect the question marks actually aren't
< 1272735174 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm...
< 1272735189 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, hm, drinking age is that high in Norway?
< 1272735201 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought in most of Europe, it was like non-distilled at 6 and distilled at 12.
< 1272735266 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1272735269 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sheesh
< 1272735287 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank you!
< 1272735299 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :among european countries, norway is pretty conservative in some respects
< 1272735302 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank you alise and hiato
< 1272735331 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: in the uk it is 16. i think
< 1272735333 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to go out & drink
< 1272735336 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at home it's 5.
< 1272735341 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think our alcohol laws are the strictest in europe.  the alcohol taxes _certainly_ are. ;)
< 1272735345 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-27-102.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272735511 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Drinking_age_by_country.svg
< 1272735527 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1272735527 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu
< 1272735528 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the norwegian color is for distilled liquor
< 1272735586 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most are 18 or above
< 1272735618 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spain, italy and greece are lower, portugal isn't available
< 1272735652 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :albania has no law, possibly
< 1272735720 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cossovo?
< 1272735735 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too small to see
< 1272735781 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries a larger version
< 1272735789 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8c/Drinking_age_by_country.svg/2000px-Drinking_age_by_country.svg.png
< 1272735820 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kosovo doesn't seem to be separate from serbia in that map, afaict
< 1272735858 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, ah well
< 1272735861 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is blue for 18+)
< 1272735884 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, looks like one ountry there
< 1272736056 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sees an island east of madagascar marked as orange
< 1272736402 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is not one of the listed colors)
< 1272737295 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone want to think about SPECIALISATION ?! 111puie4t
< 1272737389 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not especially.
< 1272737466 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEORETIC UNTHEORETIC, OERJAN.
< 1272737495 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HERETIC UNHERETIC
< 1272737598 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEOHERETIC THEOUNHERETIC UNTHEOHERETIC
< 1272737667 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HERE, ORTHOPEDIC HETERODOXIC RETROTHEORETICIANS
< 1272737746 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Retrotheohereticians.
< 1272737758 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People who are heretical with their opinions about past theoretical works.
< 1272737818 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's all greek to me
< 1272738049 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Retrotheohereticians sounds like something out of some really bad nerdcore.
< 1272738150 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're aware that -theo- is not the same as -theor- ?
< 1272738284 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_<
< 1272738287 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHADDUP
< 1272738310 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION curses bitrot.
< 1272738388 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the program's a bit rotten
< 1272738419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, quite, I'm installing ubuntu hardy in a chroot now, there are some indications that will work
< 1272738627 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ubuntu: BITROTTEN
< 1272738648 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, exactly, is comex's involvement with iPhone stuff?
< 1272738662 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cake.
< 1272738663 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean
< 1272738664 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"his involvement"
< 1272738688 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: you have been lied to
< 1272738696 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: by whom? :p
< 1272738700 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you mean that he's in #iphone-dev?
< 1272738710 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably he has an iphone, and either jailbreaks it (probably) or uses the proper SDK (unlikely)
< 1272738711 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno
< 1272738719 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I notice that on Twitter, he's always talking and being mkentioned in iPhone related stuff
< 1272738724 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you trying to get assurance that buying an iPhone is just fine and you can sleep at night with the recent TOS changes? :)
< 1272738734 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my involvement is that I'm making a jailbreak.
< 1272738740 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gee i guess he works for apple
< 1272738742 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the iphone
< 1272738746 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because people talk to him about iphones
< 1272738747 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's logical
< 1272738753 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't be just some random guy fucking with an iphone
< 1272738773 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it seemed more like a random guy _doing something important_ with an iPhone
< 1272738785 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JAILBREAKING IS OF THE UTMOST IMPORTANTANCE
< 1272738788 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex is practically world-famous
< 1272738805 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x.0
< 1272738812 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know it's true
< 1272739014 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmmmmmm
< 1272739019 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you get transparent touchsurfaces?
< 1272739021 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a touchscreen without the screen
< 1272739097 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better yet would be a touchscreen that's transparent in parts that aren't displaying anything
< 1272739135 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my idea was to put an eink display behind it
< 1272739140 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yours would make that even better
< 1272739143 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no
< 1272739147 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can't really have selective backlight
< 1272739148 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OLED, perhaps
< 1272739153 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with transparent slots when there's no pixels or something
< 1272739155 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with eink underneath
< 1272739448 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Colored eInk sounds fun
< 1272739475 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@150.140.227.105 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272739497 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Transparent touch-sensitive panel - Patent 4700025
< 1272739498 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by M Hatayama - 1987 - Cited by 9 - Related articles
< 1272739498 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The transparent touch-sensitive panel of claim 1, wherein said uneven surface has 100 to 10000 protrusions of 0.5 to 5 ÎĽm high per cm2. ...
< 1272739498 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :www.freepatentsonline.com/4700025.html
< 1272739501 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patents, darn, and old, so hmm.
< 1272739517 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want a capacitative, transparent touch surface.
< 1272739523 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: Would you happen to have done anything on the Wii?
< 1272739543 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that too
< 1272739620 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice work on Bannerbomb.
< 1272739729 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks. :p
< 1272740150 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i jailbroke this channel
< 1272740468 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU GUYS DON'T BELIEVE ME
< 1272740473 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i totally overflowed its fuzucking buffer yeah.
< 1272740540 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION will overflow your horse's name
< 1272740582 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*mane
< 1272740590 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, name.
< 1272740609 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it has such a nice flowing mane!
< 1272740660 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT'S NOT THE ONLY PART OF A HORSE YOU OVERFLOW ON A REGULAR BASIS LOL.
< 1272740889 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272741113 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523
< 1272741153 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1272741179 0 :bsmntbombdood!~gavin@174-16-203-114.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272741277 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: any esolang news?
< 1272741282 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: are you still using that ubercomputer?
< 1272741300 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Main_Page&curid=1&diff=17445&oldid=17417 this is utterly pointless
< 1272741302 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: not really
< 1272741304 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone revert it
< 1272741309 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would but i'm god.
< 1272741314 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so it wouldn't be fair)
< 1272741351 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ubercomputer?
< 1272741380 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: the one i specced up and you bought
< 1272741393 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1272741397 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1272741400 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has it broken yet :)
< 1272741415 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got hit by lightning the other day
< 1272741424 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't /entirely/ believe you...
< 1272741436 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asus replaced the mobo so it's all good
< 1272741440 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha wow
< 1272741441 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the quantum coprocessor still accessing the qubit ram without errors?
< 1272741477 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i really think i should have gone with dual quantum coprocessors
< 1272741490 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1272741512 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the newest pi calculating algorithms have to factor a large number /and/ do a reverse lookup in a database simultaneously
< 1272741513 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i can see how that would be a problem
< 1272741522 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm actually buying a new hsf now
< 1272741540 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too loud?
< 1272741551 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1272741552 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hsf = high speed fan?
< 1272741553 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd buy a new heatsink at the same time, because then you could run the fan a lot slower too
< 1272741557 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heat sink fan
< 1272741568 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, where do you get quantum coprocessors?
< 1272741569 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quiet fan + good heatsink = $50, $60?
< 1272741577 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's a secret.
< 1272741580 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough
< 1272741588 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i really want megahalems but i don't think they'll clear all the ram slots
< 1272741588 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need a big case for the cooling system though
< 1272741593 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and a government grant)
< 1272741599 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: yeah the megahalems are massive
< 1272741600 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 2 pounds hanging off my mobo worries me
< 1272741613 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well they are very securely tightened, but yes, they're crazy
< 1272741633 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can get mid-size heatsinks though, and unless you're obsessive about noise like I am it should be just fine
< 1272741640 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does look like people have used thermalight ultra-120s with this board though
< 1272741656 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i still haven't bought mine btw :P
< 1272741663 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :concentrating on moving country first of course.
< 1272741769 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds like both coolers can be made super quiet
< 1272741864 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272741899 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: if you're going for tranquility you'll want to get a quieter PSU, too; and maybe even replace the case fans
< 1272741903 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :going to replace the case fans too, should be able to make it pretty quiet
< 1272741926 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psu is already the quietest part
< 1272741978 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1272741998 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what os are you running on it? and are you actually utilising the computational power? :P
< 1272742041 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :debian, and not usually
< 1272742086 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder what's the most powerful solid state machine you could do...
< 1272742092 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be unnerving, not knowing whether it's on :)
< 1272742098 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :solid state psu is the hardest thing there
< 1272742100 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they just don't make them
< 1272742162 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :peltiers are solid state
< 1272742192 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.quietpc.com/gb-en-gbp/products/psus-501-600/x-xp600-fl "mostly fanless"
< 1272742212 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.scan.co.uk/Product.aspx?WebProductID=644060&source=froogle again "mostly fanless"
< 1272742224 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The NightJar Fanless PSU series is available in two flavors, 300W and 450W. I'll be reviewing the Nightjar 450W Zero dBA Fanless Power Supply (SST-ST45NF) which peaks at 500W and this is more than enough power for a HTPC or a silent gaming build. This PSU uses solid state Capacitors which results in cleaner more reliable power than cheap capacitors found in many other PSUs on the market. The housing is made from thick aluminum and it acts as a heastink si
< 1272742225 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nce this PSU does have a fan to keep it cool. It also has plenty of ventilation holes, but it's crucial to have excellent case ventilation to insure this PSU gets adequate cooling. Watch the video to find out more."
< 1272742228 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no actual links though, helpful
< 1272742379 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my psu is on silent pc review's recommended list
< 1272742382 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't have a problem there
< 1272742413 0 :MizardX-!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272742444 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: You can actually get PSUs that use an external brick. ;)
< 1272742462 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: ah which is it
< 1272742468 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the nexus 420 one is it?
< 1272742491 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1272742502 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MizardX
< 1272742502 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.silentpcreview.com/Coolermaster_Silent_Pro_M700W
< 1272742524 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :700w is a bit excessive for your stuff.
< 1272742541 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=silverstone_nightjar_450&num=1 hey an /actual/ fanless psu
< 1272742542 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 450w too
< 1272742565 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm.
< 1272742571 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really
< 1272742716 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man. There's an x86 emulator in Java... That appears to work at tolerable speeds.
< 1272742719 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah
< 1272742719 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your system will consume like 550w tops i bet
< 1272742728 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: exactly
< 1272742743 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yep
< 1272742746 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(20% of full-speed. Which seems slow until you realise that 200MHz is still quite usable for many OSes.)
< 1272742755 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/200/400/
< 1272742756 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1272742790 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so guys
< 1272742791 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OISC
< 1272742792 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a,b,c) means:
< 1272742793 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [c] := ~ ([a] | [b]);
< 1272742793 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [0] := [0] + 1 + ([c] == 0 ? 1 : 0);
< 1272742793 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[0] is ip
< 1272742798 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :| is bitwise or, ~ is complement
< 1272742802 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you guys think this is tc?
< 1272742805 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :semantics in english:
< 1272742831 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a,b,c) means take bitwise OR [a] and [b]; then put its complement in [c]. if [c] is then 0, skip the next instruction.
< 1272742832 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably
< 1272742859 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then what about this:
< 1272742869 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a,b) means take bitwise OR [a] and [b]; then put its complement in [b]. if [b] is then 0, skip the next instruction.
< 1272742871 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people have used megahalems passive on i7s
< 1272742896 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Skip the next instruction"? Well, that'd certainly be a *pain* to do actual jumps with.
< 1272742912 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You can always modify [0] directly with (foo,bar,0)
< 1272742915 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RSSB does it, pikhq
< 1272742920 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what Deewiant said
< 1272742928 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might just remove the [0] bit
< 1272742934 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what about the two-instruction one?
< 1272742938 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I'm not saying it'd be impossible. Just a pain.
< 1272742945 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a,b) means take bitwise OR [a] and [b]; then put its complement in [b]. if [b] is then 0, skip the next instruction.
< 1272742949 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, OISCs tend to be a pain anyway
< 1272742953 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this should be about as TC as the three-instruction one.
< 1272742983 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True.
< 1272743075 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so here's the ultimate version
< 1272743076 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a,b) means:
< 1272743084 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[b] := ~ ([a] | [b]);
< 1272743087 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[0] := [0] + 1;
< 1272743089 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where [0] is ip
< 1272743093 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is /this/ tc?
< 1272743121 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably as TC as the original (a,b,c) one
< 1272743131 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is probably TC.
< 1272743135 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So two layers of probably.
< 1272743138 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So about half the probability.
< 1272743141 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.kfc.com/doubledown/ GOD BLESS AMERICA
< 1272743144 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yeah :-P
< 1272743157 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's still 50%!
< 1272743159 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or so!
< 1272743162 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well actually a bit less!
< 1272743165 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: But, if you'd posted only that one, I'd've said only "Probably".
< 1272743168 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But do you believe that one is TC?
< 1272743173 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Hmm.
< 1272743176 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should be more specific :P
< 1272743183 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I don't know
< 1272743208 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks like it might be TC, but I'm not an OISC expert
< 1272743223 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess I just have to try and write programs in it.
< 1272743259 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The easiest proof would probably implementing a known-TC OISC
< 1272743268 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, let's see; the only way to jump in this would be setting b=0.
< 1272743270 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then we have
< 1272743276 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[0] := ~ ([a] | [0]);
< 1272743280 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[0] := [0] + 1;
< 1272743280 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e.
< 1272743283 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[0] := ~ ([a] | [0]) + 1;
< 1272743298 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~(a|b) = (~a)&(~b) right?
< 1272743305 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DeMorgan's laws surely apply to bitwise operations.
< 1272743315 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aye
< 1272743320 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[0] := ((~[a]) & (~[0])) + 1
< 1272743321 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: shouldn't you use [0] := [0] + 2; if an instruction has two operands?
< 1272743323 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that is troubling.
< 1272743329 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Er, yes, thanks.
< 1272743341 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, so, this doesn't seem very helpful
< 1272743374 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, to do a jump you need to know the current ip
< 1272743379 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If we say that [a] is ~x, then we have ~(x | [0]) I think
< 1272743394 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well you can do that of course
< 1272743395 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You always know the current ip
< 1272743398 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can only jump to locations that are a subset of the complement bits
< 1272743401 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your code just isn't position-independent
< 1272743411 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that's the issue, really
< 1272743435 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, but that can be fixed by going via ip 0!
< 1272743437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hi
< 1272743445 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi AnMaster
< 1272743446 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: haha how
< 1272743450 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er oops
< 1272743453 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh clever
< 1272743458 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's okay we can move the ip
< 1272743460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, do you happen to know any software that lets me profile TLB misses?
< 1272743462 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to say [-1] = [big]
< 1272743474 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm not even sure what your question means
< 1272743479 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm aware of profiling, but not of TLB misses
< 1272743487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you know of TLB?
< 1272743491 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1272743497 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, not that acronym
< 1272743506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah, you know that the kernel keeps page mappings?
< 1272743506 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um wait
< 1272743520 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: obviously, what else could?
< 1272743520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and the CPU uses them to find the physical page
< 1272743534 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that seems a plausible feature for modern CPUs
< 1272743536 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a jump to -1 will be hard unless you are already at 0
< 1272743541 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, TLB cache is used to cache the page mappings
< 1272743546 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever, let's just say the ip is at ip
< 1272743547 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, OK
< 1272743551 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so [ip]
< 1272743557 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now the problem is
< 1272743557 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely, whether that gets hit or missed will depend on what other programs are running?
< 1272743562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I want to profile something to find out if hugetlb would help
< 1272743564 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do we write the jumper at location 0?
< 1272743570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is an extension to make each page larger)
< 1272743602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that means fewer TLB entries, which means more memory can be handled with the TLB entries in the cache
< 1272743620 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you are at location 0, then (a,ip) will set [ip] = ~ a
< 1272743626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and iirc they are flushed at context switch
< 1272743631 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using which format oerjan?
< 1272743634 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [b] := ~ ([a] | [b]);
< 1272743634 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [0] := [0] + 1;
< 1272743634 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1272743638 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: your OISC operation seems to be NAND
< 1272743639 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1272743642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, because otherwise you would be able to access those other entries
< 1272743645 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, NOR
< 1272743652 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok.
< 1272743659 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, let's call 0 "jmp"
< 1272743664 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the jumping code is at [jmp]
< 1272743672 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now let's also call the location it uses for "loc"
< 1272743679 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: yep, good point
< 1272743683 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: how do we jump to 0?
< 1272743784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh btw I'm currently messing with a ubuntu hardy chroot due to bitrot...
< 1272743812 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you get bitrot nowadays? use a computer more than 20 years old?
< 1272743816 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: darn :D
< 1272743825 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the post-increment makes that _hard_
< 1272743834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, try to run something that doesn't compile on >gcc-4.2 and needs an older libc
< 1272743839 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: should it be pre-increment?
< 1272743843 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's put the jump at 2 instead
< 1272743843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh and that uses a custom linker script and doesn't link to libc at all
< 1272743844 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: is that bitrot, though?
< 1272743851 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just massively-old-technology?
< 1272743859 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: hm...
< 1272743870 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can we jump from two??
< 1272743875 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it is an cycle accurate x86/x86_64 simulator, which *should* be able to give me some number for the TLB misses if only I get it working...
< 1272743905 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ouch, cycle-accuracy is likely to be incredibly slow
< 1272743907 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Cycle accurate x86 simulator?
< 1272743910 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They exist?
< 1272743914 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: we can jump from two to any address whose second lsb is zero
< 1272743927 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well ideally we'd have arbitrary jumps :-)
< 1272743928 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why wouldn't it compile on newer GCC?
< 1272743934 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: well, you could obviously just throw the VHDL from an x86 processor onto a VHDL simulator, if you had it
< 1272743937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes, but it isn't too slow, plus it can be setup to run only those functions you are interested in that way
< 1272743938 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely this would work?
< 1272743938 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think it telling that it takes a fairly recent computer to do cycle-accurate SNES emulation on a modern machine. :)
< 1272743938 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [0] := [0] + 1;
< 1272743939 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [b] := ~ ([a] | [b]);
< 1272743939 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm pretty sure Intel and AMD have one
< 1272743941 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: that is _only_ possible from 0
< 1272743942 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe?
< 1272743945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and run the rest natively
< 1272743948 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes, so?
< 1272743959 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [0] := [0] + 1;
< 1272743959 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [b] := ~ ([a] | [b]);
< 1272743960 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that doesn't surprise me at all
< 1272743963 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could we jump to 0 with this I wonder
< 1272743966 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... "on a modern machine"? rm that.
< 1272743969 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: 2, not 1
< 1272743971 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[0] := ~ ([a] | [0]);
< 1272743973 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where [0] > 1
< 1272743973 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, is x86 or the SNES older?
< 1272743974 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"cycle accurate"?
< 1272743976 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er right
< 1272743981 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [0] := [0] + 2;
< 1272743983 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [b] := ~ ([a] | [b]);
< 1272743984 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[0]
< 1272743985 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er
< 1272743987 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Funny thing is, you need cycle-accurate SNES emulation to do it right.
< 1272743988 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't surprise me in the least if AnMaster's simulator actually simulated an 8086
< 1272743994 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we have [0] := ~ ([a] | [0]) where [0] >= 2
< 1272743994 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Emulating each individual clock cycle.
< 1272743996 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yep, due to lag effects
< 1272743999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, wrong, it does SSE2
< 1272744005 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and x86_64
< 1272744017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I don't think it does SSE4 or later, not sure about SSE3
< 1272744021 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the alternative?
< 1272744022 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: a and b are locations from the ip before increment, right?
< 1272744031 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There were a large number of weird things that happened on SNES. For instance, you could read the result of a division *before it was done*.
< 1272744046 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes. i'll write it out more precisely
< 1272744065 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, similar to delay/force in Scheme?
< 1272744074 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, wrong thouyght
< 1272744076 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: No.
< 1272744077 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [0] := [0] + 2;
< 1272744078 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [[0]-1] := ~ ([[0]-2] | [[0]-1]);
< 1272744090 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: partially computed?
< 1272744096 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes.
< 1272744101 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Similar to getting a promise of a result before the result is computed, and ... hm?
< 1272744103 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow
< 1272744104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it is also supposed to emulate cache misses correctly. Checking the mailing list there are some @amd.com addresses there so I do believe they have some experts involved
< 1272744149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also, for completely unknown reasons it seems to require running as root. Not even setting all the capabilities available as file caps works...
< 1272744158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is extremely strange
< 1272744198 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also multiplications.
< 1272744207 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok then it would be possible to jump to 0 with say (#-1,ip)
< 1272744225 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(# for pointer to constant)
< 1272744225 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, has anyone ever created a non-tape-based OISC?
< 1272744255 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and at 0 you could jump anywhere with (#~target,ip)
< 1272744303 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok, so clearly we need a memory location L such that ~[L] = target
< 1272744312 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the question is... can we even assign this to things we want :-)
< 1272744312 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: is this that Jasmin sim?
< 1272744320 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the /last jump location/ will still be there!!!
< 1272744323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, never heard of that. This one is called ptlsim
< 1272744345 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: um [a] isn't changed, a locations are pretty stable
< 1272744362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, googling Jasmin sim doesn't give any useful results either
< 1272744390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great, ptlsim crashed on cfunge: "Assert false failed in ooocore.cpp:1056 (bool OutOfOrderModel::ThreadContext::handle_exception()) at 6484964 cycles, 6484964 iterations, 6597152 user commits"
< 1272744396 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://www.lrr.in.tum.de/~jasmin/
< 1272744412 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes but
< 1272744422 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 is (ntarg, ip)
< 1272744426 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ntarg] must be ~target
< 1272744438 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so before our (-1,ip) (to get to 0), we need to set [ntarg] to ~target
< 1272744441 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can we do this, generally?
< 1272744457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, that seems pretty useless for doing full simulations
< 1272744472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to quote that page "While not implementing all the functionality of a modern Intel Processor its tutorials allow you to try and understand the basic commands and structures of assembler code."
< 1272744484 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I only caught the last bit of this, so yes, if that,s what you're trying
< 1272744486 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: (#-1, ntarg) (#target, ntarg)
< 1272744492 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think
< 1272744496 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: cool
< 1272744501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, I'm trying to profile TLB misses yes
< 1272744507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I need fairly accurate and detailed stuff
< 1272744529 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Haha, good luck
< 1272744544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, ptlsim is *supposed* to be able to do that
< 1272744552 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is just it is a PITA to get it working
< 1272744557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, severe bitrot
< 1272744563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm in a hardy chroot atm
< 1272744574 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Actually, let me know how this works out, genuinely interested
< 1272744578 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so
< 1272744580 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah
< 1272744582 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :macro [jmp X] := {ones loc; X loc; ones ip}
< 1272744591 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and at the start of the program
< 1272744599 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :loc ip
< 1272744605 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then later in the program
< 1272744608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, also it doesn't seem to read the config file (it doesn't do cmd line args, you have to create ~/.ptlsim/full/path/to/executable.conf and put the flags there
< 1272744610 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[jmp label]
< 1272744613 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, Unicode works in file names in this OS
< 1272744622 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is clearly a good way to create unique extensions for esolangs
< 1272744626 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: lolwut? Where did you find this thing?
< 1272744634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and they are in -this style -so why -they -arent -read -fromcommand line I don't know(
< 1272744642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/($/)/
< 1272744648 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1272744648 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so we can do unconditional jumps. But can we do conditional jumps?
< 1272744654 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can't just do arithmetic on the jump location...
< 1272744661 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: unicode exts ftw!
< 1272744663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, from an llvm.org publication that mentioned using it
< 1272744674 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: which os?
< 1272744677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, there is a full system variant of this that integrates with Xen
< 1272744680 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: let's say we have our flag as a 0,1 value somewhere
< 1272744681 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Ubuntu Jaunty
< 1272744683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying the user space variant
< 1272744683 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Ah, cant say I frequent their lists
< 1272744684 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in flag
< 1272744689 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so presumably it's an ext3 or ext2 feature
< 1272744691 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe even ext1
< 1272744702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, nah it wasn't their mailing list, but one of the articles they put on their site
< 1272744710 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: said.
< 1272744711 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Foo.čŞž?
< 1272744714 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: oh, I see
< 1272744715 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is writing this down, btw
< 1272744723 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: all ext just store things raw
< 1272744727 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all apart from \0 or /
< 1272744735 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then we can jump to either of two consecutive locations - hm maybe 0,1 is a bad idea
< 1272744736 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the official file extension for DownRight is now .â†ł
< 1272744738 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the encoding is just how it's mounted
< 1272744739 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: ah, OK
< 1272744739 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now to figure out how to get it to read the cmd line
< 1272744757 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Wikified?
< 1272744759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay, so sudo doesn't set HOME=/root
< 1272744762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that may be the issue
< 1272744764 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Re-write :P
< 1272744764 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato: not yet
< 1272744767 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: maybe 0,-1
< 1272744771 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should really say ~0 instead of -1.
< 1272744782 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that a DownRight program is conceptually a rectangular grid with arbitrary-size cells, I need to come up with a file format
< 1272744793 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could make it XML just to annoy people, but I don't really want to
< 1272744807 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so make it MSXML!
< 1272744813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, ?
< 1272744822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hah
< 1272744827 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato: hmm, you mean their table representation?
< 1272744827 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1272744828 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, No I'm not messing with that code
< 1272744836 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yep ;)
< 1272744838 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that actually isn't a bad idea, if aiming for sheer horribleness
< 1272744839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, did you see above about it using a custom linker script?
< 1272744844 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but really I want something simple
< 1272744845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, and not linking system libc
< 1272744848 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://blog.regehr.org/archives/140
< 1272744856 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: simple
< 1272744857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, oh and needing gcc-4.1 or 4.2, no other versions work
< 1272744858 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CSV! >:D
< 1272744864 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Oh? Well that's when I walk away
< 1272744866 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no actually what i'd do is use the unicode box drawing characters
< 1272744870 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd be very pretty
< 1272744871 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1272744874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, :D
< 1272744878 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: failing that, | - and +
< 1272744880 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Ah well, for another project perhaps
< 1272744881 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good ol' boxes
< 1272744889 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CSV is probably the most plausible method, it would at least be easy to parse given what the content of the cells are
< 1272744891 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: ah yes 0,-1 is good
< 1272744896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, and yes I'm in this hardy chroot because of modern libc versions (and modern binutils) breaking it
< 1272744899 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: or if you want real minimalism, have two extra chars
< 1272744900 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even better, you could make it flexible
< 1272744902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least now I get it to do *something*
< 1272744908 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/ and \
< 1272744909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :under jaunty it just did *nothing*
< 1272744911 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D and R for down and right are the commands
< 1272744913 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/ goes in top left corner of cell, \ top right
< 1272744919 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so
< 1272744920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so, miscompiled rather than compile error)
< 1272744934 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first thing that isn't D or R that's encountered is column separator
< 1272744935 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1272744938 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second thing is row separtor
< 1272744940 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*separator
< 1272744953 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and row separators are ignored unless at least one column separator is encountered between them
< 1272744954 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523:
< 1272744958 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at this:
< 1272744961 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Vaporware. Walk. Away.
< 1272744965 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sec
< 1272744969 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would work for both CSV and Unicode box drawing
< 1272744983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, not vaporware, it seems to work now
< 1272744999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, it actually gave me tlb stats here
< 1272745001 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay
< 1272745015 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: c'est ne pa possible
< 1272745031 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, time to go home, I'll have to discover what alise's great idea is later, or else logread
< 1272745036 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait!
< 1272745036 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1272745039 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i'm about to paste it!
< 1272745040 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh fucking hell
< 1272745041 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1272745043 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just did all that work
< 1272745054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, sure is, but a PITA to get there
< 1272745072 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNGRATEFUL LOG-READING AIS523: http://pastie.org/941753.txt?key=me9yjscxo1usw2ikcaxba
< 1272745074 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :code, and table representing it
< 1272745079 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :key: / is top-left, \ is top-right
< 1272745087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, it is almost as bad as opengenera...
< 1272745088 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from this, we can infer all the table cells of arbtirary size, intermingling
< 1272745101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in setup stuff I mean)
< 1272745105 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because we know that the first character is the one after /, then the column \ is in delimits the last column for all the lines, and also the last line
< 1272745115 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus, it's pretty
< 1272745117 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I fucked up that table
< 1272745119 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: wth is opengenera?
< 1272745129 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lisp machine emulator, hiato.
< 1272745149 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: i see some problems with this nor language - there is no simple way to access bits not mentioned in the program, unlimited memory is going to be _hard_, maybe impossible
< 1272745150 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wouldn't know. Unlike most here, I am not a masochist
< 1272745151 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOG-READING AIS523: revised version - http://pastie.org/941754.txt?key=63e6jwcvawa5kfcjiuuoyg
< 1272745156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, lisp machine thingy
< 1272745172 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm, how can't you access bits not in the program?
< 1272745177 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a matter of storing them in a norable format
< 1272745185 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato: lisp machines are nice!
< 1272745186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not lisp machine, since it ran on other hardware
< 1272745203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genera_%28operating_system%29
< 1272745204 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it didn't
< 1272745207 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't emulate the mac one
< 1272745210 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh echo it doesn't emulate the mac one
< 1272745210 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lisp machines don't run Scheme, do they?
< 1272745215 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/tmp/input.5076: line 1: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `''
< 1272745215 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now opengenera is a program to run that on modern linux
< 1272745222 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh echo "it doesn't emulate the mac one"
< 1272745222 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't emulate the mac one
< 1272745229 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: by "in the program" i mean _mentioned_ in the program
< 1272745236 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder if he's already wised up and ignored egobot
< 1272745246 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ah, because we cannot dereference locations
< 1272745253 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1272745258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc opengenera emulates the one for alpha or such, forgot the details
< 1272745260 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about [b] := ~[[a] | [b]];
< 1272745269 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's one extra dereference before ~ing
< 1272745296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, it needs a complicated setup so you will basically ruin the host system (thus do it in a virtual machine), and it broke with modern ubuntu versions
< 1272745302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot why exactly
< 1272745316 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Can you give a quick summary of where this OISC is at?
< 1272745324 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato: in here :P
< 1272745333 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato: basically the idea is to have it based on a logical operation
< 1272745334 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bitwise
< 1272745335 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: if the program contains no values outside -128, 127 and is also stored in there then the _only_ way to get outside is by running off the edge - and we _cannot_ initialize the outside memory first
< 1272745339 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You lost me at the word lisp ;)
< 1272745346 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-128 .. 127
< 1272745349 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: ok
< 1272745354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, and the complex setup included stuff like nfs and ntp to localhost iirc
< 1272745372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, you can ask alise for more details, iirc once had it working too
< 1272745374 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ouch. why that range?
< 1272745405 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: 8-bit twos complement
< 1272745406 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: it's the set of integers for which all bits past the eighth are equal
< 1272745417 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I didn't say 8bit though
< 1272745438 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: it was just an example, -65536 .. 65535 would have the same property
< 1272745448 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and -2^n .. 2^n-1 in general
< 1272745451 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yuh.
< 1272745463 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1272745475 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but more dereferencing wouldn't fix it, would it?
< 1272745492 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: you cannot dereference something you cannot mention
< 1272745503 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean in the instruction set
< 1272745504 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say
< 1272745518 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[b] := [~([a] | [b])]
< 1272745519 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even
< 1272745523 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[b] := ~[[a] | [b]]
< 1272745560 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 Calculus the Easy Way
< 1272745594 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: if you are going to get outside the range, then something inside the range must refer to something outside it, _or_ you must run off the edge and have the part outside preinitialized
< 1272745605 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(finite) calculus isn't hard!
< 1272745606 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: essentially you need an infinite memory setup
< 1272745618 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: heh, like the 2,3 tm
< 1272745623 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1272745632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, you want to hear something really scary: Even though this thing links no standard libraries, it uses C++. It has it's own subset of STL included. And parts of klibc
< 1272745638 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how complex does the setup need to be, I wonder?
< 1272745640 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably sub-tc
< 1272745650 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a newer edition? o.O
< 1272745651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this STL is not the GNU STL either
< 1272745660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to be a custom thing
< 1272745670 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: probably not that hard
< 1272745679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is not completely compatible (different name space for example)
< 1272745683 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: would it be easier with nand?
< 1272745687 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an infinite memory setup is kinda lame
< 1272745769 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: wutlol? srsly? This thing is messed up man
< 1272745793 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: nand and nor are essentially the same here i think
< 1272745795 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...different name space?
< 1272745805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, not "std"
< 1272745807 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: mm
< 1272745809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1272745810 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...you can't possibly mean what I think you.. damn
< 1272745812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, and yes
< 1272745816 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about or/and without the not? I guess that's even worse
< 1272745825 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's not strange
< 1272745827 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even EA do that for their games
< 1272745831 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the stl is slow and sucky
< 1272745841 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: it's really about the fact that there is no interference between different bits in your operations, except for the ip increment
< 1272745842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, but I have been unable to locate anything else to profile TLB misses with
< 1272745858 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah... ugh
< 1272745859 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this was going so well
< 1272745864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, and I *need* to know where and if I should try to use hugetlb pages in this program
< 1272745867 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all bitwise boolean operations have that property
< 1272745867 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it *might* help
< 1272745871 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I assume the original, check-if-0-and-skip, three argument one is better?
< 1272745872 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the same, maybe...
< 1272745884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but premature optimisation is bad
< 1272745904 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: was that also bitwise? if so probably the same
< 1272745906 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yeah, I cant say I've really been looking, and nothing springs to mind... pen and paper? :P But seriously, I'm not sure, but best of luck
< 1272745920 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes;
< 1272745921 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [c] := ~ ([a] | [b]);
< 1272745921 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [0] := [0] + 3 + ([c] == 0 ? 2 : 0);
< 1272745933 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/2/3/
< 1272745937 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(?)
< 1272745946 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: oh hm it occured to me, what _does_ a sequence of (0,0) actually do?
< 1272745965 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[0] := [0] + 2;
< 1272745968 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[0] := ~([0] | [0]);
< 1272745969 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so
< 1272745973 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[0] := ~([0] + 2);
< 1272745975 0 :cheater2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1272745991 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at which point it will go somewhere entirely unrelated to where you were at the start
< 1272746017 0 :cheater2!~cheater@ip-80-226-243-251.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272746018 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if ip != 0 then that won't do anything much
< 1272746058 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will not do much in any case!
< 1272746087 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... are there any esolangs with type systems?
< 1272746094 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed.  i had hoped that by some coincidence you'd jump inside the original range _after_ having put information there about the outside
< 1272746126 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Haskell /ouch/
< 1272746135 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more seriously, yes, such as faces of the lambda cube; they're only retroactively esolangs, though
< 1272746140 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand, that seems to me like in a nutshell what you want to do for the infinite memory setup
< 1272746141 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha
< 1272746143 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: C++ :-)
< 1272746168 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++'s type system *is* an esolang.
< 1272746168 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ is not an esolang, according to the esolang wiki
< 1272746171 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at each 2^n location, you put essentially a code to do that.
< 1272746180 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Turing tarpit, even.
< 1272746195 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lessee, (ip, x) would be a good start.
< 1272746214 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: C+-
< 1272746227 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(c more or less)
< 1272746235 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: it's WRONG
< 1272746240 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then perhaps (#-1, ip).
< 1272746274 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: it is possible that putting a sequence ip x #-1 ip  at the start of every 2^n boundary is enough
< 1272746280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, found the issue with the file btw, out of date documentation
< 1272746303 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes, but it's a bit of a Cheat.
< 1272746315 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you jump back to 0, having set [x] to a pointer to the outside
< 1272746340 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you can extract the new fresh bit from [x] :)
< 1272746359 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1272746365 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :new bits, freshly squeezed
< 1272746367 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: sure it's a cheat but it's much simpler than what ais523 did for t-2,3 i'm sure
< 1272746371 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: how did you manage that?
< 1272746390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, manage what? figuring out what I was supposed to do instead?
< 1272746397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, grepping source for references to this file
< 1272746404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(surely it has to read the file somewhere)
< 1272746413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :noticing there *were* no such references
< 1272746434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :checking commits since that release which *had* such references
< 1272746439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(weren't too many)
< 1272746455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then figuring out what it was supposed to do instead (pass them on cmd line arg!!!)
< 1272746462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at least that is somewhat saner than the old variant!)
< 1272746475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if only they would update the docs too)
< 1272746500 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haha
< 1272746504 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+7 exp AnMaster
< 1272746556 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no real esolangs with type systems... because types are impossible to experiment with?
< 1272746565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, oh btw this can automatically generate comparsion tables for various statistics. In plain text and latex
< 1272746570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and html
< 1272746582 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, like different parameters to the simulation
< 1272746592 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My step-mother: "You see the nice weather? God decided to give you nice weather on your birthday." I think she's just being annoying, but she might be serious
< 1272746592 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or different binaries with same parameters
< 1272746596 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: nice
< 1272746609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, yes, quite. But yeah a PITA to get it working indeed
< 1272746616 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I dont think god is though
< 1272746623 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: i had this insane idea once of a combinator language with overloaded monads like haskell
< 1272746634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, they fail at the docs a bit, too few linebreaks in the pdf
< 1272746635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in
< 1272746636 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing fleshed out though
< 1272746640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :command run over the edge
< 1272746644 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :runs*
< 1272746662 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, this was a definite walk. away. now. proggy
< 1272746682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, nah, there was just in one place, and that seems fixed in the latex master file in git head
< 1272746688 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: sounds deceptively interesting
< 1272746692 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically slightly like unlambda, except c wasn't just call-with-current-continuation, but actually was typed in the Cont monad
< 1272746700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, oh graphs as svg
< 1272746703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can output those too
< 1272746730 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ` was not just application, but like haskell =<<
< 1272746734 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: impressive stuff, but le's see if it actually works now ;)
< 1272746740 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmmm
< 1272746753 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well, I'm thinking of a "cool" esolang where (<$>) = (.) = ($) = id
< 1272746756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, well yes it does, I'm just trying to make sense of the statistics currently
< 1272746772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, as in, ptlsim (the actual simulator) works
< 1272746795 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: every value would be in a monad when put on the _right_ of an application (=<<) but would be unwrapped into a function on the left
< 1272746795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, but ptlstats (takes the data dump and makes something human readable from it) I haven't figured out yet
< 1272746810 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.spiegel.de/international/business/0,1518,692001,00.html Google Translate? Usable? Hah!
< 1272746820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, well ptlstats works, but I need to figure out how to get the part of it that I need in a meaningful format
< 1272746839 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not far from "my nipples explode with delight"!
< 1272746849 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, welcome to the silly wortd of machine code dumps
< 1272746855 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the language name is liMonade, btw)
< 1272746893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, as in, I can get it to dump the data format in a somewhat more readable format, but it seems to be miss per cache type per instruction  (as in, not per instruction in the program, but merged for all instructions of a given type, say, div, add, or whatever)
< 1272746899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is not quite the stat I want
< 1272746952 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: that's just concatenative right?
< 1272746994 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really; it's something like loosely-typed Haskell
< 1272746995 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: meh. How does it sim? With a pipeline and all? clock cycles?
< 1272747001 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: btw the suggestion of making (.) = (<$>) i've heard on #haskell before.  in fact i think lambdabot implemented it for a while.
< 1272747018 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> It's not far from "my nipples explode with delight"!
< 1272747020 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I WISH
< 1272747028 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1272747041 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272747041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, it is cycle accurate and you can get it to dump pipeline state for every cycle (the manual warns that the dump file will be huge if you do that)
< 1272747045 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: well having function application be composition...
< 1272747051 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1272747052 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes little sense.
< 1272747064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, also it can switch to native execution for the parts you are uninterested in
< 1272747074 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: mixing $ in is going to give some ambiguity though, even though it's the Identity monad
< 1272747074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, like, only do the full thing for a few functions
< 1272747105 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: ($) = (<$>) is the identity monad i think
< 1272747105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, oh and there is a version that integrates with Xen to do full system simulation, and the website says a kvm-based variant is currently being worked on
< 1272747111 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: this thing actually sounds pretty useful
< 1272747113 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow
< 1272747123 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it (<*>), maybe those are all the same in it
< 1272747145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, I have only tried user space simulation, but considering how tricky THAT was... I can only imagine the pain of the full system ones
< 1272747188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And I still haven't figured out what exact parameters I need to ptlstats)
< 1272747201 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haha, yeah. If the docs are anything to go by...
< 1272747253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1272747310 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, I think I figured part of it out. The stats is represented as a tree. So I want something like /ooocore/dcache/<something>
< 1272747383 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: it's overloaded juxtaposition, basically. f $ x is the same as f x, and I want f . g to be f g as well
< 1272747445 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Really? Hmmm, well good luck finding those nodes then... that is a little silly
< 1272747460 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is worried about becoming a Google fanboy
< 1272747679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, oh btw it does simulate an out of order core
< 1272747695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or optionally a sequential one
< 1272747701 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are various settings related to both
< 1272747756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, and the tree system is quite sane
< 1272747761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since there are a lot of different stats
< 1272747764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that can be examined
< 1272747782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing a "flat" system would be impossible to manage
< 1272747783 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: where di you get this thing again?
< 1272747808 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Perhaps, I envisaged a nice file prefix system, but hey
< 1272747811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, well www.ptlsim.org is where, but before you asked how I found it, which was from llvm
< 1272747821 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1272747827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or rather a publication of them)
< 1272747836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, I'm using git head here
< 1272747844 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, do you know anything about eBuddy?
< 1272747853 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm wondering if it might be malicious
< 1272747878 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1272747915 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It's old and fine but, you know, shitty.
< 1272747924 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meebo is better imo
< 1272747936 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meebo keeps disconnecting
< 1272747946 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If eBuddy is safe, I think I'll try it
< 1272747953 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[I'm talking about on my phone btw]
< 1272748016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, oh yeah and don't make it dump a snapshot every 100 cycles (I meant 1000 but typoed)
< 1272748038 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, the data dump I got was 552MB, and that was just for ./program --help
< 1272748117 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. Ok, noted
< 1272748176 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"After using ebuddy, my hotmail account got attacked and it kept sending spam msgs to my entire contact list."
< 1272748306 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from WOT: "They keep and can use you password of account"
< 1272748366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay now this is strange, why are there multiple cpu nodes in there
< 1272748379 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah, unlucky
< 1272748397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, either it does SMP simulation and then I'm extremely impressed, or vcpu0 vcpu1 and so on mean something else
< 1272748466 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that sounds a lot like smp to me..
< 1272748472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow
< 1272748484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but should there be an option to control number of cpus you want then...
< 1272748500 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, time to read the... oh wait.
< 1272748517 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Sgeo> [I'm talking about on my phone btw]
< 1272748522 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get an app
< 1272748531 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I think those are unrelated to ebuddy.
< 1272748542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, ?
< 1272748543 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but if eBuddy on the web is malicious, then the app would also be malicious
< 1272748547 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tons of people get msn viruses by being retards; the latter has no evidence provided
< 1272748552 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, true
< 1272748590 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the missing word was docs :P
< 1272748595 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are people who think geocities is malicious because one site is malicious
< 1272748598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1272748607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, I wondered if it was "source" or "docs"
< 1272748652 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough
< 1272748669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, I'm building git head docs atm, lets see if that is better than website
< 1272748675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully a bit
< 1272748686 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION watches pdflatex output scroll by
< 1272748729 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get a non-ebuddy app then
< 1272748740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, so, the Xen one does SMP/SMT it says
< 1272748746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the user space one?
< 1272748747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1272748787 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's donig it so far as I can tell, but what do those dumps hold? Perhaps theyre empty
< 1272748832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, perhaps. Note it is NOT the ptlsim.log file
< 1272748844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need -stats foo
< 1272748845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then that
< 1272748858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, foo.stats is probably a better name)
< 1272748870 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, yep. Ok, I see
< 1272748898 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, what distro?
< 1272748906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, because here it needs sudo to run
< 1272748919 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the mailing list indicates this is needed on ubuntu and a few other distros
< 1272748934 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meebo does seem to be a nicer interface, but it simply doesn't WORK
< 1272748971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god, this is nasty (reading source code that defines the stats tree)
< 1272748992 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, ^
< 1272749015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, know ghc? think "ghc evil mangler" kind of nasty level...
< 1272749041 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't seem to add my AIM account to eBuddy
< 1272749261 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eBuddy doesn't warn me that I'm offline
< 1272749500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, oh it seems it need full system simulation to do TLB stats properly, that explains the strange numbers (which were reasonable for the first small "dummy" test
< 1272749503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :)
< 1272749517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, maybe I'll try that later, the other stats are still interesting
< 1272749520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for other type of caches
< 1272749540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1272749542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually wait
< 1272749553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems to be to make it use real tlb from the cpu
< 1272749560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure about tlb for user space
< 1272749618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah no, user space version do not model it
< 1272749626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nah I'm not doing Xen this evening
< 1272749803 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom_H@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272749807 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1272749817 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi, everybody!
< 1272749954 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'evening
< 1272750014 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, no, no! You're supposed to say "Hi, Dr Nick!"
< 1272750027 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who the heck is dr nick
< 1272750046 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Simpsons reference.
< 1272750060 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha
< 1272750333 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does Facebook discriminate against people who eschew mobile phones?
< 1272750347 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's appalling, I say!
< 1272750413 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Facebook discriminates against intelligence.
< 1272750466 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, but I wouldn't have *any* friends if I didn't use it.
< 1272750478 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You've got us, man.
< 1272750507 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You suffer the crippling disadvantage of knowing more about one of my fields of interest than me.
< 1272750609 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that'll happen. Is called "life". :P
< 1272750640 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know. It still annoys me.
< 1272750643 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION uses Facebook >.>
< 1272750644 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must know all.
< 1272750661 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damned GĂ¶edel...
< 1272750670 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION uses AIM
< 1272750679 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has for 12 freaking years now.
< 1272750719 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION once had a theory that everyone was a reincarnation of myself.
< 1272750749 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION recalls seeing that theory somewhere recently
< 1272750763 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a scifi reference that wasn't named
< 1272750773 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I came up with it first!
< 1272750780 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was about 10 at the time!
< 1272750784 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if it wasn't here, probably reddit)
< 1272750809 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but that was in a previous life *ducks*
< 1272750832 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha! You admit it!
< 1272750849 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are next week's lottery numbers, by the way?
< 1272750854 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cannot admit what i don't remember
< 1272750867 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8
< 1272750874 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lowest payout ever
< 1272750880 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only 6 numbers in the UK.
< 1272750896 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't matter, it's 1,2,3,... everywhere
< 1272750962 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Phantom_Hoover> I must know all.
< 1272750963 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Phantom_Hoover> Damned Göedel...
< 1272750966 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1272751166 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1272751239 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom_H@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272751247 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goddamn connection...
< 1272751345 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am bloody determined to come up with an OISC.
< 1272751358 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hey I think my language could be salvaged
< 1272751359 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we kept the basic
< 1272751360 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have something against subtract-and-branch-if-negative?
< 1272751363 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [0] := [0] + 2;
< 1272751365 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [[0]-1] := ~ ([[0]-2] | [[0]-1]);
< 1272751366 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then added more mutation
< 1272751369 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with an extra dereference
< 1272751375 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It's called research, man.
< 1272751380 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, RSSB is better, having only one operand.
< 1272751412 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn language mutants
< 1272751453 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps
< 1272751454 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [0] := [0] + 2;
< 1272751454 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [[0]-1] := ~ ([[0]-2] | [[0]-1]);
< 1272751454 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [[[0]-2]] := something
< 1272751467 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since [0]-2 doesn't normally mutate with this, it lets us have something reliableish
< 1272751473 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only question is what's something, and is this enough
< 1272751559 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: perhaps
< 1272751561 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [0] := [0] + 2;
< 1272751562 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [[0]-1] := ~ ([[0]-2] | [[0]-1]);
< 1272751562 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [[[0]-2]] := [[0]-1];
< 1272751568 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then we get a free copy to a dynamic addres with every instruction
< 1272751633 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :food ->
< 1272751680 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What?
< 1272751745 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what what?
< 1272751752 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RSSB just looks like the MOV system used in the Wireworld computer.
< 1272751765 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not mov is it?
< 1272751794 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: mmap'd functionality is not unusual for OISC stuff. ;)
< 1272751837 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I REQUIRE OERJAN'S BOTHERSOME REALITY CRUSHING MY DREAMS
< 1272751873 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want not approve on it. I think nonsensical post.
< 1272751895 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272751921 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi the 38 zzos
< 1272751976 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How often in any programming can use "same number for multiple purposes"?
< 1272752007 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1272752011 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...How many purposes has a number?
< 1272752020 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Context por favor?
< 1272752059 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean like the "stroker.gb" game, I wrote, it used 0x9C for clear screen tile instead of 0x00 so that the register can be used for multiple purposes at once
< 1272752091 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And in one solitaire card program I write, it uses ASCII 32 (space) for wildcard so that it can be checked by LTRIM$ function if a pile consists entirely of wildcards
< 1272752140 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, in code-golf, the C program is given no command-line parameters so the solution can be written:  main(i){while(putchar(i++)<127);}
< 1272752149 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reminds me of the Real Programmer story.
< 1272752163 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it might be similar in many ways
< 1272752194 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you use cat >a.out as a compiler?
< 1272752196 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. It's most common in various forms of golfing.
< 1272752215 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least space optimisation.
< 1272752237 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which *used* to be fairly common. Now, "space optimisation" consists of "-Os".
< 1272752244 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: cat >a.out is not so good for binary files
< 1272752255 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A hex-editor would be used instead.
< 1272752259 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Real Programmer would not be deterred.
< 1272752262 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Won't handle 0x00 right.
< 1272752271 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^@?
< 1272752283 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have GameBoy or GameBoy emulator, you can check this game and you can see how it is used:  http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/prog/GameForth/game/stroker.zip
< 1272752296 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However some bugs in some emulators mean it has to be longer than it should be
< 1272752300 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. No, wait, EOF is differentiable from other characters. Never mind. :P
< 1272752309 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has done too much Brainfuck.
< 1272752338 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never say the point of 0-on-EOF.
< 1272752372 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With 8-bit cell Brainfuck, you have 2^8-1 choices for EOF.
< 1272752378 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of those, 0 is the easiest to test against.
< 1272752398 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer 0 for EOF on brainfuck, but some uses 255 because of the C program.
< 1272752408 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, but I always thought of it as inelegant. 0 is still a valid ASCII character.
< 1272752414 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: the problem is not copying to "dynamic" addresses, which you already could do perfectly well, the problem is constructing any value outside the initially provided range
< 1272752437 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*All* possible values are valid characters for normal IO in 8-bit Brainfuck.
< 1272752463 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You only start getting truly "complete" IO in greater-than-8-bit Brainfuck.
< 1272752484 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or hacks, such as, say, interleaving IO with an "EOF" flag or some such.)
< 1272752550 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1272752643 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I make some changes in Linux I would have to add a few additional signals, such as SIGBREAK SIGCORE SIGDC1 SIGOKILL and so on.
< 1272752672 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where SIGOKILL is like SIGKILL but overrides everything that can prevent SIGKILL from working including init process, uninterruptable sleeping, etc
< 1272752706 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought SIGKILL killed *everything*.
< 1272752720 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia says it doesn't.
< 1272752810 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It says SIGKILL don't kill blocked state programs, therefore SIGOKILL needs to killed even blocked state programs immediately.
< 1272752824 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's never simple, is it?
< 1272752851 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it never always works, is it?
< 1272752879 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: SIGKILL does, in fact, kill init.
< 1272752888 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When init is killed, the kernel panics.
< 1272752895 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then Wikipedia is wrong.
< 1272752910 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try it. "kill -9 1".
< 1272752912 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:D
< 1272752929 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe it kills init only on some operating systems but on other operating systems, it doesn't.
< 1272752953 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On Linux, init is special and is immune from SIGKILL iirc.
< 1272752982 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And killing D-state programs with SIGKILL is technically possible but hairy to implement.
< 1272752985 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Kernel panic.
< 1272753032 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, earlier versions didn't have that protection but I first noticed that logic when reading kernel sources.
< 1272753142 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In addition, SIGOKILL would prevent other programs from being notified by using another signal (such as SIGCHLD), but it can still check normally if a process exists
< 1272753220 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> alise: the problem is not copying to "dynamic" addresses, which you already could do perfectly well, the problem is constructing any value outside the initially provided range
< 1272753223 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er just put it in the source
< 1272753275 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"kill -9 1" does nothing.
< 1272753290 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're not falling for that one.
< 1272753324 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on os x, kill 1 reboots the system.
< 1272753350 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that was on Linux 2.6.32...
< 1272753419 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: um i was assuming you were trying to solve the problem of accessing unbounded memory without unbounded pre-initialization, otherwise you have no _need_ for any more modification
< 1272753454 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun tricks: 'clone(9, NULL)'. :-)
< 1272753468 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe your original (a,b) version is perfectly adequate for computation with bounded memory
< 1272753477 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is 'clone(9, NULL)'?
< 1272753479 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: not INFINITE preinitialisation
< 1272753479 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: wtfbbq
< 1272753482 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's code at 9? :P
< 1272753483 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but unbounded
< 1272753496 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want infinite memory + finite but unbounded initialisation
< 1272753498 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, 'sys_clone(9, NULL)'.
< 1272753509 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: unbounded = infinite in this case
< 1272753517 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what is 'sys_clone(9, NULL)'?
< 1272753539 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: right
< 1272753540 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like fork but use SIGKILL on process termination instead of SIGCHLD.
< 1272753547 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but "any value you like" can go in the source
< 1272753555 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this also includes all possible values, because of finite bit size.
< 1272753562 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :moving it somewhere is the problem
< 1272753565 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I see
< 1272753568 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I dereference like that
< 1272753576 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: then clearly I need arbitrary bit size
< 1272753579 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then there is no problem
< 1272753585 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: only one problem; with bignums, what is "all ones"?
< 1272753616 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also using sys_clone(11, NULL); sys_exit(0); and then making the child exit could be fun...
< 1272753626 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: -1 in two's complement
< 1272753634 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes, but you can't have infinite sized numbers
< 1272753635 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: OK, so, that's what it is, now I know
< 1272753638 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is just bignums
< 1272753647 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bignats, rather
< 1272753668 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: signed bignums corresponds to any bitstring that _eventually_ becomes just 0 (positive) or just 1 (negative)
< 1272753705 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but negative memory locations MAKE NO SENSE, BITCH
< 1272753707 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you cannot _do_ nor on bignums without sign, or something equivalent to it
< 1272753708 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... I don't /think/...
< 1272753721 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh true
< 1272753731 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so with arbitrary size bits, this should work fine?
< 1272753732 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does sys_clone exactly do, what are its parameters? (Looking on Google doesn't help much)
< 1272753753 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: the initialization problem remains
< 1272753758 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why?
< 1272753821 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can you possibly have arbitrary size bits?
< 1272753836 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if all memory is 0 outside a bounded area of -2^n .. 2^n-1, and all values of cells in that area are also -2^n .. 2^n-1, then there is no way to construct a value outside that range
< 1272753869 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: no, just infinite-bits
< 1272753877 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1272753879 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except for [ip], but at the point ip wraps over you are executing only zeros...
< 1272753882 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. 0, 1, 2, ..., G_64, ..., xkcd, ...,
< 1272753892 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkcd + your mother's weight in kilograms,
< 1272753907 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: clearly all memory should start at -1 then?
< 1272753907 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now now, let's not go inconsistently large here
< 1272753912 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait, x|0 = x
< 1272753916 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 0 is nice.
< 1272753922 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"and all values of cells in that area are also -2^n .. 2^n-1"
< 1272753922 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no?
< 1272753924 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing is bounded
< 1272753926 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :naturals
< 1272753927 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1272753928 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually
< 1272753928 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :integers
< 1272753934 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-inf,inf memory
< 1272753939 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: sheesh you are being dense
< 1272753940 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-inf,inf cells
< 1272753945 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes, I know.
< 1272753956 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...xkcd+A(g_64,g_64)...
< 1272753970 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have _finite_ initialization then there _will_ be some range that all initial values are inside
< 1272753975 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: your mother is far heavier than that.
< 1272753980 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, that is just 2*xkcd
< 1272754046 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What kind of numbers are G_64 and xkcd
< 1272754062 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :g_64 is a Very Big Number.
< 1272754068 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkcd is a webcomic.
< 1272754079 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: G_64 is graham's number, was in guiness book of records at one point as the largest specific number used in math
< 1272754092 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it ends in 7!
< 1272754097 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK
< 1272754105 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it's the upper bound on a value that's more likely to be on the order of 20
< 1272754116 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can it be used as a number if it is a webcomic?
< 1272754123 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: basically you take arrow notation i.e. x^y is exponentiation x^^y is repeated exponentiation and so on
< 1272754127 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you define numbers with absurd amounts of these
< 1272754128 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you do
< 1272754135 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :absurd ^...an absurd number of arrows...^ absurd
< 1272754136 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkcd made a comic referring to the even larger number A(G_64,G_64)  (where A is the ackermann function)
< 1272754137 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's G_1
< 1272754144 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you iterate G_n+1 = substitute G_n for absurd
< 1272754148 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :take the 64th element
< 1272754151 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK
< 1272754153 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you get something huge
< 1272754158 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume you know what the ackermann function is
< 1272754171 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I have heard of ackermann function, I know what it is
< 1272754171 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: xkcd didn't invent either G_64 or the ackermann, it's just the kind of geeky stuff xkcd sometimes references
< 1272754199 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, xkcd = A(G_64, G_64); he came up with that
< 1272754215 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, now I can understand why they used it like that
< 1272754218 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and xkcd is so popular among geeks that once he did it, they named it after the comic
< 1272754224 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the great thing is that you can't cause a vast increase in it without resorting to a longwinded procedure
< 1272754226 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK
< 1272754232 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vast as in relative to its size
< 1272754279 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally A(G_64,G_64) is less than G_65, or something like that iirc, so putting A's around doesn't really help much
< 1272754319 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A(G_xkcd, G_xkcd)
< 1272754320 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :problem solved
< 1272754325 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically G's grow so fast that the ackermann function is insignificant in comparison
< 1272754365 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made a solitaire card program, but it doesn't have a picture of Oscar Wilde on the wildcard, and the win screen doesn't have the vector drawing of the baker, the spider, the king. I would need to add these things if someone has the picture?
< 1272754420 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many do you A(G_x, G_x) by "xkcd" times if x start A(G_xkcd, G_xkcd) and then x is the new value of the function after each time
< 1272754426 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1272754443 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I think G grows far faster than that
< 1272754457 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it G_n+1 has G_n arrows as its operation
< 1272754463 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then feeds G_n to both sides
< 1272754469 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so not only are the numbers huge, it /constructs/ a huge operation
< 1272754550 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, x'=A(G_x,G_x) x''=A(G_x',G_x')=A(G_A(G_x,G_x),G_A(G_x,G_x)) and so on?
< 1272754551 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i think A(G_n, G_n) <= G_(n+1) for all n, or at least from a very small size
< 1272754591 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That means surely G_x' is more larger than G_x is?
< 1272754610 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1272754631 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, x'' <= G_(x'+1)
< 1272754644 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK
< 1272754696 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically your attempts at increasing xkcd are fruitless :D
< 1272754728 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's xkcd''''''''''' must surely be more larger than xkcd'''' ?
< 1272754760 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh they're all incomprehensibly larger than the previous, sure
< 1272754785 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because xkcd''''''''''' = A(G_xkcd'''''''''',G_xkcd'''''''''')
< 1272754828 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let lol_0 = G_1; lol_n = G_(G_(G_... (n+1 G_s) lol_(n-1)
< 1272754839 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now consider lol_xkcd.
< 1272754854 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK
< 1272754869 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, you can actually hold that number in your head?
< 1272754881 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. but I can consider it.
< 1272754895 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's nothing compared to coppro's Turing-completeness.
< 1272754921 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What 's coppro's Turing completeness?
< 1272754936 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with your powers combined, I am Captain Turing!
< 1272754943 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A while ago he said that his brain was Turing-complete.
< 1272754948 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the digits of lol_xkcd ARE...
< 1272754964 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, so that's what it means.
< 1272754979 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact I don't even know how to calculate G_ of anything
< 1272755035 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well writing down the digits of G_1 won't fit in the observable universe, anyway
< 1272755041 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're all just bloody huge.
< 1272755049 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The last ten digits of Graham's number are ...2464195387
< 1272755049 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That helps.
< 1272755054 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't know we'd calculated that many.
< 1272755075 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so you can partially calculate it, I suppose
< 1272755087 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: it's not really that difficult to calculate from the end as far as you wish
< 1272755092 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kruskal%27s_theorem#Friedman.27s_finite_form ;; numbers much bigger than graham's
< 1272755132 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know I once invented a chess variant where the number of different kind of pieces was googolplex
< 1272755143 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah here it is
< 1272755146 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you know knuth's arrow notation?
< 1272755152 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly googolplex, not approximate.
< 1272755160 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x^y is exponentiation; x^^y is repeated exponentiation; x^^^y is repeated ^^iation; etc
< 1272755167 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes I have seen arrow notation on Wikipedia before, I know what it is
< 1272755186 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say G_1 = 3 ^^^^ 3; G_n = 3 (G_n-1 ^s) 3
< 1272755191 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then Graham's number is G_64
< 1272755214 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course it is impossible to actually play that chess variant
< 1272755225 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Explain it?
< 1272755228 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: basically _all_ the G_n numbers end in the same sequence of digits afa our bounded universe is concerned
< 1272755248 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, do you mean explain the chess?
< 1272755251 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1272755252 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ah, clever.
< 1272755256 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would take a while to explain
< 1272755264 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I can type it later
< 1272755272 0 :hiato!~hiato@vc-41-27-143-83.umts.vodacom.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272755284 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah "This algorithm produces the following 500 rightmost decimal digits of Graham's number (or any tower of more than 500 3s):"
< 1272755314 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: power failure. but i'll check the log tomorrow. on my phone now
< 1272755360 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, basically, you have a 10x10 board with numbers 0 to 9 to determine how the piece is allowed to move in that direction (chosen by the position on the board) and then you assign digits 0 to 9 to each possible combination of that 10x10 board to determine how the moves of the pieces are combined together with each-other.
< 1272755367 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the number of digits in G_64 could not be written down in the physical universe
< 1272755371 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could the number of digits in G_1 be?
< 1272755372 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :hiato-phone
< 1272755373 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose so.
< 1272755378 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not /that/ big
< 1272755403 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought not...
< 1272755409 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://mathforum.org/library/drmath/view/68592.html says no
< 1272755413 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that includes all kind of movement such as capturing, non-capturing, promotion, Chinese cannon move, Korean cannon move, leap or ride in any direction and any amount of spaces, restriction of adjacent pieces, and so on.
< 1272755414 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about the log of its log
< 1272755433 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still staggeringly huge, probably.
< 1272755434 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 ^^^^ 3 = 3 ^^^ (3 ^^^ 3), right?
< 1272755468 0 :hiato-phone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't g1 just 3 -3 to the three to the three up arrows- 3? like, seventy billion or something
< 1272755474 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i think so, yes.
< 1272755492 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato-phone: g_1 is much bigger than seventy billion
< 1272755505 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3^^^3 = 3^^3^^3 = 3^^7625597484987
< 1272755512 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't think you can write a 7625597484987-high power tower
< 1272755515 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but good luck)
< 1272755520 0 :hiato-phone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oerjan, three with seventy billion up arrows three
< 1272755532 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, hiato-phone is wrong.
< 1272755548 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato-phone: i think the number of arrows is actually small for G_1
< 1272755554 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes.
< 1272755560 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :G_1 = 3^^^3
< 1272755563 0 :hiato-phone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, ok then
< 1272755571 0 :hiato-phone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that it?
< 1272755582 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is (3^) repeated 7625597484987 (off by one or two) times
< 1272755583 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then a 3
< 1272755587 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :G_2 on the other hand, is larger than what you said :D
< 1272755596 0 :hiato-phone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought every level was previous level total in up arrows
< 1272755599 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :G_2 = 3 (G_1 ^s) 3
< 1272755606 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but G_1 is the base case
< 1272755609 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it has three arrows.
< 1272755625 0 :hiato-phone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right
< 1272755635 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC there was a Horizon documentary a while ago with someone claiming that there was a largest integer.
< 1272755642 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :were you being dijkstra and expecting everything to start at 0 :-)
< 1272755645 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes.
< 1272755647 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zeilberger.
< 1272755657 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A prominent ultrafinitist.
< 1272755659 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, him.
< 1272755664 0 :hiato-phone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alise, heh, maybe :)
< 1272755667 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's utterly crazy... but he's done some clever things.
< 1272755679 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now if you were able to calculate the _first_ digit of G_64 (or even G_1) then I think you'd have it made in mathematics.
< 1272755694 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He has a plane geometry textbook that a computer wrote by automatically finding proofs and writing the code for them
< 1272755704 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well, that's the problem
< 1272755708 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no modulo tricks to help you there
< 1272755709 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calculating the first digit ~= calculating it
< 1272755713 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of, you know, decimal
< 1272755720 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://www.math.rutgers.edu/~zeilberg/GT.html take a look at it, it's pretty cool
< 1272755723 0 :hiato-phone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... i could do it in binary with an accuracy of fifty percent off the cuff
< 1272755725 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1272755774 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: any base other than 3^k would do, i'm sure :)
< 1272755785 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes :P
< 1272755792 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION votes for base G_64
< 1272755798 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato-phone: the first digit is /obviously/ 1 in binary
< 1272755799 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think about it
< 1272755800 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ... dammit pikhq
< 1272755801 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01 = 1
< 1272755810 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: :)
< 1272755810 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hey i did it in binary and that's not 3^k
< 1272755813 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 1
< 1272755818 0 :hiato-phone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, i can guarantee what it is in binary, heh, my bad. trinary with fifty percent
< 1272755821 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'VE GOT IT MAAAAAAAAAADE
< 1272755821 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: you'll be famous!
< 1272755834 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would it be in base 3^k?
< 1272755888 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, hm
< 1272755900 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok maybe not all k
< 1272755910 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in base 3 it's obviously 1
< 1272755914 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1272755915 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it's a power of 3
< 1272755933 0 :hiato-phone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeterminable, i agree with alise, at least equivalent to working the entire number out
< 1272755968 0 :hiato-phone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, hmmm
< 1272756001 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3^(3^...) = 3^(3*3*...) = (3^3^k)^... something
< 1272756013 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i believe in every 3^3^k base it is one
< 1272756040 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um maybe 3^(3k)...
< 1272756065 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could /probably/ simplify the problem from calculating /all/ of G_1
< 1272756077 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you would have to calculate some large amount of context then somehow prove the rest has no affect on it
< 1272756077 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno
< 1272756084 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems a quite intractable problem
< 1272756096 0 :hiato-phone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not so sure, can you restate that proof type thing? it is possible that there is a power of 3 to the 3 to the k that is not a power of, say, 3 to the 3 to the 3 to the x
< 1272756118 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what the *last* digit of G_64 is. :P
< 1272756121 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*effect not affect
< 1272756122 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: we know
< 1272756126 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato-phone: G_1 = 3^3^3^3^...huge no. of 3's something
< 1272756127 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we know the last 500 digits, easily
< 1272756136 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why we're talking about it
< 1272756145 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: because after a while, the powers in the tower stop mattering
< 1272756149 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they only change larger digits
< 1272756152 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham%27s_number#Rightmost_decimal_digits_of_Graham.27s_number
< 1272756185 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF
< 1272756189 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF?
< 1272756191 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone here using Chrome?
< 1272756194 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1272756196 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why
< 1272756207 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My school's website just seems to be blank
< 1272756216 0 :hiato-phone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reminds me of that biggest number contest on xkcd forums back in the day
< 1272756218 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato-phone: which is 3^3^something huge = 3^3^(k+something huge) = 3^(3^k * something huge) = (3^3^k) ^ something huge
< 1272756229 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for any reasonable k
< 1272756252 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where something huge is a natural number in each case
< 1272756255 0 :hiato-phone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmmm, ok
< 1272756286 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: of course all this is just silly because really busy beaver dwarfs A easily
< 1272756298 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but stupid people like numbers they can compute! hrmph!
< 1272756306 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(says the constructivist)
< 1272756336 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Mmm.
< 1272756434 0 :hiato-phone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alise- let s . x = s . x+1 if x is real, x-1 otherwise
< 1272756447 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s being some sort of kooky function here?
< 1272756455 0 :hiato-phone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep
< 1272756456 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, real as opposed to what, integer? rational? irrational?
< 1272756478 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything is a real apart from complex numbers.
< 1272756488 0 :hiato-phone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Real as defined, well, on wk is a good start i guess
< 1272756501 0 :hiato-phone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Real implies finite
< 1272756509 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it doesn't??
< 1272756510 0 :hiato-phone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think
< 1272756529 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We should just make a computer program that continually makes up bigger and bigger recursive ways to create numbers
< 1272756538 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unbeatable, given long enough
< 1272756539 0 :hiato-phone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, then let me rephrase, if x elem integers
< 1272756544 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I propose this one
< 1272756549 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: All reals are finite numbers.
< 1272756565 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i = 0; while (true) { printline("#" * i); i++ }
< 1272756567 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :output in unary
< 1272756569 0 :hiato-phone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that s of anything should be as big as integers can get
< 1272756575 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: well infinite as in not infinite, yes...
< 1272756581 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although iirc there are models with infinite numbers?
< 1272756589 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even for the naturals
< 1272756597 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reals are not normally such a model.
< 1272756602 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: yes
< 1272756602 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato-phone: it's just the "not definable in N words" paradox
< 1272756605 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: the reals are laws
< 1272756607 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the model is the model
< 1272756616 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As I said, "not normally".
< 1272756618 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the intended model of the reals has no infinities, but...
< 1272756627 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato-phone: as soon as you define s, all s(x) become "real"
< 1272756628 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there is an infinite model, then there are models of all cardinalities, or something like that
< 1272756629 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly, if you define the real differently, you get different properties.
< 1272756630 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can define them easily
< 1272756631 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1272756637 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*infinite cardinalities
< 1272756643 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: in my world the reals have pi elements.
< 1272756647 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: you fail at understanding models :P
< 1272756655 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reals are defined by the regular definition - pick any one you want -
< 1272756660 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this has the intended model, which is what we think we mean
< 1272756668 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there are all sorts of non-standard models, such as ones that are countable
< 1272756672 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ones with infinities
< 1272756673 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc
< 1272756697 0 :hiato-phone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, the result is supposed to be real, by construction, but the 'largest'
< 1272756712 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm S(n) grows slower than ackermann?
< 1272756714 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely not
< 1272756715 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er
< 1272756717 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm S(n) grows slower than G?
< 1272756724 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait that's E
< 1272756726 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, \Sigma
< 1272756778 0 :hiato-phone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blag, it's too late-actually early-for this stuff on my phone. cheers all
< 1272756798 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye :)
< 1272756815 0 :hiato-phone!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: used jmIrc
< 1272756828 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has to take a PERL class at some point
< 1272756844 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should delay that to next year, when I will be taking a different major, and thus might not end up doing PERL
< 1272756932 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A *class* in Perl?
< 1272756945 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1272756948 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's really not much to the language. Well. Except there is a lot to the language. :P
< 1272756959 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PERL?
< 1272756960 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You fail.
< 1272756961 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously.
< 1272756962 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BCS 316 Perl programming
< 1272756962 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just fail.
< 1272756964 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PERL
< 1272756966 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I CAN SHOUT
< 1272756981 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's more "We've got a bunch of operators, a bunch of syntax, and cheap regexps" than "there's a massive number of unusual concepts to it".
< 1272756996 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://search.cpan.org/~jwalt/Acme-Lingua-NIGERIAN-1.0.0/NIGERIAN.pm
< 1272756999 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"PERL Programming" is the title
< 1272757019 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Then it is worse than useless.
< 1272757027 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly they haven't the first idea about the language if they know not even its name.
< 1272757035 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably based on Perl 4, and manually writing CGI scripts!
< 1272757053 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd suggest just, you know, giving up on whatever uni it is you go to.
< 1272757059 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that's the plan
< 1272757067 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After this upcoming semester, I'm transferring
< 1272757076 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even though this means I'll graduate much later, probably
< 1272757087 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since after this semester, the next year is my senior year
< 1272757089 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where to?
< 1272757094 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stony Brook
< 1272757219 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur is there.
< 1272757224 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll like it there. ... You are gay, right?
< 1272757233 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, im not at stony brook
< 1272757233 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i used to be
< 1272757236 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1272757237 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes is at stony brook tho
< 1272757241 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Poor Sgeo, missing out on all that rape.
< 1272757245 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: where be thou?
< 1272757254 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :University of Maryland
< 1272757257 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, where are you presently?
< 1272757272 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some nothing state university
< 1272757280 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~50,000,000 pupils
< 1272757293 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Farmingdale
< 1272757299 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh
< 1272757303 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man, we couldve hung out
< 1272757325 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you me and gracenotes couldve all hung out
< 1272757325 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: that wasn't what i heard last time
< 1272757326 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[‘tlimp’: to kiss someone allergic to peanuts. as in “John was tlimping all last night” = “John was kissing someone who is allergic to peanuts all last night”]]
< 1272757339 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you try and pick an unpronounceable word there
< 1272757342 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww, alise, you remember :3
< 1272757343 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes :)
< 1272757353 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i just looked at your site lol
< 1272757359 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;)
< 1272757363 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you remembered my site!
< 1272757364 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should have the blog menu on the right it's disturbing on the left./
< 1272757367 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\/$//
< 1272757377 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like I feel like i'm constantly looking to the right
< 1272757379 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's so irritating
< 1272757385 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good :D
< 1272757407 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_University_of_New_York_at_Farmingdale no wait that is the one i thought of
< 1272757422 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Hey! Listen!
< 1272757425 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: i won't read your blog anymore
< 1272757428 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHUT UP N-- oh wait
< 1272757438 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes, that one
< 1272757468 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: what :|
< 1272757475 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean what
< 1272757477 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* FireFly has quit (Quit: Hey! Listen!)
< 1272757483 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait what
< 1272757490 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :play zelda
< 1272757493 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you will know my pain
< 1272758000 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION uses finite integrals to quickly calculate f(0,x) = 1; f(n,x) = f(n-1,1) + ... + f(n-1,2*x)
< 1272758027 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: See, some of my genius has rubbed off on you.
< 1272758028 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Right?
< 1272758033 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was a _huge_ improvement on the actual recursion, even with memoization (i.e. haskell lists)
< 1272758035 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finite integrals are also known as "sums" :P
< 1272758055 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but it's the theory that is important here
< 1272758059 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also why are you calculating that?
< 1272758086 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love how the finite derivative of 2^x is 2^x because 2 is e rounded down
< 1272758088 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's genius.
< 1272758098 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er...
< 1272758106 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272758112 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that's actually how it was found in the paper
< 1272758115 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they tried 2 and 3
< 1272758121 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they were roundings of e
< 1272758157 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is doubtful, for some _unfathomable_ reason
< 1272758185 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: doubtful of what?!
< 1272758194 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-34-17-217.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272758216 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it's more accurate to say that e is what you get when, instead of discrete distances where 2 works, you need to handle all the turtles, all the way down
< 1272758222 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that there was a paper where someone used rounding of e to find that derivative
< 1272758267 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the paper introducing finite calculus.
< 1272758275 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1272758276 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.stanford.edu/~dgleich/publications/finite-calculus.pdf
< 1272758284 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why, anyway?
< 1272758304 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why what
< 1272758314 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why doubtful
< 1272758332 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounded like a very silly way to guess the obvious
< 1272758373 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's more an explanation.
< 1272758426 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose different bases work for different increments
< 1272758459 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a^(x+d)-a^x)/d = a^x
< 1272758474 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suddenly have an odd feeling that I'm about to say something and alise is going to contradict me.
< 1272758482 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: No you aren't.
< 1272758492 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<=> a^d - 1 = d
< 1272758499 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, if a hypothesis is falsifiable, then as the time it's gone without being falsified approaches infinity, its probability approaches 1.
< 1272758570 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: True if and only if someone's /trying/ to falsify it.
< 1272758574 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well assuming the conditional probability of falsification has a nonzero lower bound per time unit...
< 1272758574 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right.
< 1272758585 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(conditional on it being false)
< 1272758589 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I said "pink elephants exist in a planet where everybody has penises of length -3.4i halfinches, and every fortnight they all explode and come back together again",
< 1272758591 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nobody challenged it,
< 1272758597 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think we could assume it gets more probable!
< 1272758619 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not falsifiable, though.
< 1272758679 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is; "the planet is [some space we will be able to visit in the future]; we will be able to visit it in N years"
< 1272758689 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could say, "The universe contains no planets that do not have sapient life but do have blue, hairy creatures that secrete food for their young."
< 1272758691 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set N = very big
< 1272758702 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even once we're able to visit it
< 1272758704 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we could falsify it
< 1272758710 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but let's assume it's in a really boring region of space and nobody does
< 1272758713 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't get more likely
< 1272758718 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I could just always say that we haven't seen that planet because it's outside the observable universe.
< 1272758728 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus, there's no falsifying it.
< 1272758728 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's say it isn't.
< 1272758747 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The pink elephants are too small to be seen with our technology.
< 1272758760 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the two people on it live underground.
< 1272758797 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I'm making it falsifiable.
< 1272758805 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1272758806 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We will be able to visit it in N years; it is N miles away"
< 1272758811 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I see.
< 1272758816 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perfectly falsifiable: but let's say it's a really boring region of space, and nobody bothers.
< 1272758824 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Countless aeons pass. Still no more likely.
< 1272758826 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't see that that statement was a refinement of the hypothesis.
< 1272758834 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods.
< 1272758846 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If people were /actively trying/ to disprove it, and they didn't, then it'd become more likely.
< 1272758857 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But it'd take a bloody long infinity for it to become 1.)
< 1272758981 0 :bsmntbombdood!~gavin@174-16-203-114.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272758992 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=54709
< 1272759011 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are many like that
< 1272759020 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :including some with a really heavy zalman metal case, you know that thing
< 1272759029 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :question is how much powah can you get.
< 1272759119 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a totally silent computer is interesting in the psychological effect --
< 1272759126 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the computer would become completely ambient, it would make no disruption
< 1272759367 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.silentpcreview.com/Silverstone_ST45NF_PSU
< 1272759376 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's your fanless psu
< 1272759491 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night
< 1272759595 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you mean your as in the one i linked?
< 1272759603 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i linked it
< 1272759613 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't see
< 1272759643 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah not a spcr review though http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=silverstone_nightjar_450&num=1
< 1272759646 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1272759647 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what google gave me
< 1272759651 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :450w is pretty fucking good
< 1272759657 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could run an i7 and an okay graphics card off that.
< 1272759661 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1272759666 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would want megahalems for the i7 mos def
< 1272759674 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it probably needs some airflow though
< 1272759687 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and probably one of the videocards that can be ran fanless /without/ a crazy cooler that overheats
< 1272759728 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: I dunno man
< 1272759739 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :open the back of the case entirely (with maybe some dust filter stuff)
< 1272759741 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something
< 1272759745 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let natural airflow take care of it
< 1272759750 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i7 is a bit excessive
< 1272759753 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bet i5 could take it though
< 1272759826 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@150.140.227.105 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272759831 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder how much passive airflow you'll get from the cpu sink
< 1272759876 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION listens to his MacBook.
< 1272759888 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, it's making sound.
< 1272759921 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's drowned out by the sounds of birds and rustling leaves outside, my dad cooking, my little brother banging stuff, and other appliances.
< 1272759923 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course it is.
< 1272759945 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No birds and leaves at 12:25 am; nor much cooking going on. Only child, and no appliances are on.
< 1272759955 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And this is the ooold computer I'm on. Whirrrrrrr.
< 1272759961 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods.
< 1272760290 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: remember those crazy watercooling solutions we talked about?
< 1272760294 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1272760311 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :putting everything in one big loop, then getting a large house radiator
< 1272760322 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that can handle like 2,600 w
< 1272760325 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just pluggin 'er in
< 1272760380 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The funny thing is, I never noticed my LCD whine until after reading this post. It has a very quiet, very high frequency line."
< 1272760380 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCKKKK
< 1272760389 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can hear it now
< 1272760396 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my goddd
< 1272760398 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh heh.
< 1272760399 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kill me
< 1272760405 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm going to have to commit suicide.
< 1272760435 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION attempts to listen to an LCD whine.
< 1272760449 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could put the psu in another room
< 1272760466 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I hear it.
< 1272760477 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think my tinnitus is louder than that.
< 1272760540 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate all the armchair engineering that goes into reviewing heatsinks
< 1272760573 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to think I had tinnitus but I think everyone hears whining when things are silent.
< 1272760580 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something that has 8 heatpipes MUST be better than something 6
< 1272760580 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's called tinnitus.
< 1272760586 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: in all fairness mike chin knows what he's doing
< 1272760593 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you meant someone else
< 1272760599 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: no because tinnitus is a condition and it's constant
< 1272760609 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this heatsink doesn't have a mirror finish, it must suck
< 1272760611 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm.
< 1272760645 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: now that's ridiculous, spcr certainly doesn't say such bullshit
< 1272760654 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't talking about spcr
< 1272760661 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok :)
< 1272760670 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah hardware review sites almost always suck
< 1272760674 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... i like ananadtech though
< 1272760892 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I want to take a hearing test.
< 1272761158 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.jab-tech.com/YATE-LOON-120mm-Case-Fan-D12SL-12-pr-3009.html
< 1272761432 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, http://www.jab-tech.com/Scythe-KAMA-FLEX-80-mm-Silent-Case-Fan-Medium-Speed-SA0825FDB12M-pr-4111.html
< 1272761842 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: the nexus fans are meant to be good.
< 1272761856 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yate loon is apparently the same manufacturer as the nexus fans, but less reliable quality
< 1272761857 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and thus cheaper)
< 1272761862 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're kinda oldschool i gather
< 1272761864 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yate loon = nexus
< 1272761869 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scythe are excellent.
< 1272761871 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: no
< 1272761875 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :different manufacturer, yes
< 1272761878 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but nexus have better QC
< 1272762130 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.silentpcreview.com/article114-page1.html
< 1272762133 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks nice
< 1272762297 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1272762310 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272762394 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-34-17-217.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272762947 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.silentpcreview.com/article601-page1.html
< 1272762951 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's interesting
< 1272762964 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most everything on spcr is
< 1272762972 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the picopsu is awesome
< 1272762978 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but only usable for low power situations obviously
< 1272762982 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even the higher watt brick you attach it to has a fan
< 1272762988 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you need to use the lower one
< 1272762992 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use 2
< 1272763032 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :240 watts, I can barely contain my excitement
< 1272763040 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"No, use 50!" Now your computer is overheating.
< 1272763053 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, they're $50 a pop.
< 1272763071 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Although the power brick is sold separately, Mini-box supplied two power bricks to test alongside the picoPSU, one rated for 80W, the other for either 110W or 120W (depending on which numbers you believe)."
< 1272763082 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latter has a cooling fan ("on heavy load" -- most of the time with one of these, surely)
< 1272763089 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically you get ... eighty watts!
< 1272763133 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be perfect for an itty bitty system to build inside house walls or something
< 1272763140 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :house walls? why?
< 1272763155 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for like a kiosk thing? meh
< 1272763161 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be v. nice for a media pc of some sort.
< 1272763173 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't it be cool to have a computer you couldn't see?
< 1272763177 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm imagining a big tv plugged into a teeny weeny computer running mythtv and all that kinda stuff
< 1272763183 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: well yes, but imagine maintaining it
< 1272763186 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or would you put a door in the wall
< 1272763188 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1272763193 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that's the point
< 1272763195 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't find it
< 1272763199 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1272763203 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wireless monitor
< 1272763206 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it just audio
< 1272763211 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like making ghost noises from the wall
< 1272763218 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woooh, it's a pc
< 1272763223 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wifi, duh
< 1272763229 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah wifi monitor
< 1272763233 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jesus, have you no imagination?
< 1272763243 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm joking, sir
< 1272763326 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :put a couple terabytes storage
< 1272763354 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :couldn't do that with that power supply though
< 1272763365 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :precisely :P
< 1272763373 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, 2tb drives don't have too bad power requirements i think
< 1272763378 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a network storage device would work better :P
< 1272763674 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :DalekEmperor
< 1272763683 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EXTERMINATE
< 1272763684 0 :DalekEmperor!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :AUGUR
< 1272763688 0 :AUGUR!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :augur
< 1272763769 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could also put the power brick far enough away not to hear it
< 1272763858 0 :cheater3!~cheater@ip-80-226-12-84.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272763913 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: that is just cheating though.
< 1272763920 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, after /too/ far it'll run into problems
< 1272763924 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and after not far enough you will hear it easy.
< 1272763929 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :silence vs a little noise = a lot
< 1272764073 0 :cheater2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1272764074 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: You could just use the fanless power brick. :)
< 1272764270 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :80w
< 1272764342 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Requires some doing, but quite feasible.
< 1272764369 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially if you're going for no-moving-parts.
< 1272764414 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the point is that you can get a 0-fan pc doing much more than 80w
< 1272764430 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are fanless 450w supplies; use them at 100-200w and you'll only need minimal airflow
< 1272764439 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :be very careful and use a bit less and you'll only need natural airflow
< 1272764443 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you'd def. want heatpipes somewhere else)
< 1272764452 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True.
< 1272764456 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really the best solution is: bunch of heatpipes + fucking gigantic radiator
< 1272764470 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you would have to completely custom-do the heatpipes because i don't think you could mod the zalman easily to go to an external radiator.
< 1272764472 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The picoPSU is something you'd want for, say, something hooked into your TV running MythTV.
< 1272764481 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with that though you'd be able to handle a modern pc, save maybe graphics card
< 1272764497 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get two stonking great radiators and you'd be able to have a good processor and graphics card
< 1272764505 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course: this will cost thousands to do the heatpipes & also get the house radiators.
< 1272764510 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you will have to make it all yourself
< 1272764512 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1272764520 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you did it... that would be utter perfection.
< 1272764523 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now where are you going to put the radiators?
< 1272764549 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My wall of my room in the previous Hexham house that my computer stood at had a down-staircase on the other side.
< 1272764558 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was actually thinking about drilling through my wall, running watercooling cables through,
< 1272764564 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and mounting a gigantic household radiator on the wall of the stairs.
< 1272764575 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That way it would stay cool in my room and I'd still have some inkling of space...
< 1272764583 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better hope that radiator's held up securely though /wince
< 1272765156 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, why are you using WinCE?
< 1272765170 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What?!
< 1272765173 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1272765487 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :DalekEmperor
< 1272765538 0 :DalekEmperor!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :augur
< 1272765708 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :city
< 1272766172 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Death on a (pogo) stick.
< 1272766484 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://gunshowcomic.com/comics/20090930.png
< 1272766835 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :DalekEmperor
< 1272766845 0 :DalekEmperor!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :augur
< 1272767546 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1272768461 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1272769284 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the point of a set-top box that can't handle 1080p?
< 1272769397 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise
< 1272769398 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://gunshowcomic.com/d/20100422.html
< 1272769401 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are the rabbit in the igloo
< 1272769405 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1080p is pretty easy to do with a low-power-usage computer.
< 1272769421 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am always the rabbit in the igloo
< 1272769429 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Low power usage for a computer still gets you "able to decode h.264 in real time with ease".
< 1272769429 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also that page isn't loading for me :/
< 1272769452 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: really?
< 1272769461 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://gunshowcomic.com/comics/20100422.gif
< 1272769471 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Modern CPUs are both crazy fast *and* don't use that much power.
< 1272769505 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My *last* CPU was able to decode 1080p h.264 in real time. And it would be a good 7 years old now. (and it was single core.)
< 1272769553 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now have 1080p h.264 and aac audio packed in matroshka or however you spell it
< 1272769565 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Matroska.
< 1272769569 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes. Done that.
< 1272769573 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure your old pc could really handle realtime 1080p h.264... that stuff is pretty hardcore
< 1272769577 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need about 3ghz single-core iirc
< 1272769580 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or about 2ghz dual-core
< 1272769586 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It used about all of my CPU.
< 1272769590 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it could be a good cpu from 7 years old
< 1272769595 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ago
< 1272769625 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was top of the line 7 years ago?
< 1272769643 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. 7? More like 5. XD
< 1272769644 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno
< 1272769647 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shit shittingham by Shitco
< 1272769665 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(technical term)
< 1272769693 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: Some Athlon 64...
< 1272769729 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This was just a *bit* before Intel trashed Pentium 4 for good, IIRC.
< 1272769745 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x2?
< 1272769754 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not.
< 1272769756 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, they shipped P4s up until 2008?
< 1272769761 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the fuck Intel?
< 1272769761 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dual-core came to fashion with the core 2 duo i think
< 1272769772 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: they're just sooo good
< 1272769780 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I hadn't purchased an x2.
< 1272769796 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's an athlon 64 x2 in this machine right now
< 1272769961 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My current system can encode h.264 (... 480p) in faster-than-realtime.
< 1272769974 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah 480p :P
< 1272769980 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(never bothered to check how much faster; I generally start the makefile before I go to sleep.)
< 1272769984 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1080p h.264 is just glorious
< 1272769988 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is.
< 1272770004 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is that the real world doesn't have enough details to take full advantage.
< 1272770005 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1272770012 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should just meticulously draw everything
< 1272770017 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pity my monitor is too cheap to display it.
< 1272770020 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: indeed
< 1272770030 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's 1440x900)
< 1272770032 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of 1080p, i need a new hard drive
< 1272770037 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1272770045 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: 2TB is all the rage. get two, RAID 0 them
< 1272770046 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: MOAR TERABYTES
< 1272770048 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just keep backups you bum)
< 1272770053 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :raid0 ftl
< 1272770054 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4TB of sex for about $400.
< 1272770058 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, http://www.mini-box.com/PW-200M-DC-DC-power-supply?sc=8&category=13
< 1272770065 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get four, RAID5 them.
< 1272770066 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what, you are keeping backups right?
< 1272770068 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so raid0 it.
< 1272770077 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a 200w picopsu style
< 1272770089 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah with a fan component
< 1272770093 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :solid-state ftw!
< 1272770136 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly the next step in solid-state computing is eInk, to get rid of that pesky whine and distracting backlight.
< 1272770160 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no fan...
< 1272770168 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely in the power brick.
< 1272770199 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1272770209 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :laptops generally have fanless power bricks
< 1272770228 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also v. low power
< 1272770228 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're talking 40-60w here
< 1272770233 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even the picopsu one can handle 80w 100% fanless
< 1272770268 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf are you talking about
< 1272770296 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean
< 1272770301 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh
< 1272770308 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should just get a bunch of flux capacitors
< 1272770311 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can power anything
< 1272770319 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mini-box.com/picoUPS-100-12V-DC-micro-UPS-system-battery-backup-system?sc=8&category=1264
< 1272770320 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bwahahaha
< 1272770333 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1272770415 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmmm
< 1272770427 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many watt-hours are in a 12v car battery?
< 1272770433 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use the 400-500whatever one
< 1272770439 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no fan at all
< 1272770439 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simple
< 1272770463 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just open all the holes in the case you can, and make sure the cpu heatsink is comfortably away from it
< 1272770478 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then use a low-power graphics card so you don't need a hefty heatsink because it has little heat output
< 1272770481 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :job done
< 1272770552 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :picopsu is cool just because it's so small
< 1272770569 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make the smallest modern x86 computer you can
< 1272770577 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :problem is... all mobos are pretty big
< 1272770583 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think mini-ITX is the smallest?
< 1272770623 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so get a low-power cpu with a very small heatsink so that it doesn't take up much height, stick a picopsu on it, a tiny (say the 18 series of intel SSDs) drive, leave the rest to the mobo
< 1272770629 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :custom-make a tiny plastic case for it
< 1272770635 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile-ITX
< 1272770669 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's called a smartphone...
< 1272770694 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :smartphones aren't regular x86 puters
< 1272770712 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's x86.
< 1272770719 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you mean mobile-itx?
< 1272770721 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the page hasn't loaded yet
< 1272770722 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid 3g
< 1272770729 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why limit yourself to x86?
< 1272770736 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"regular" puter
< 1272770739 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :puter puter puter
< 1272770741 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such a silly word
< 1272770743 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :puter
< 1272770751 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mobile-ITX is 60mm by 60mm. Though it gets a little bit larger due to the needed IO breakout board.
< 1272770857 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also PC/104. 96mm by 90mm, peripherals attached via sticking the board on top.
< 1272771023 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :djb has published a new standard-workstation list of parts & software & stuff since 2005 every one or two years... and since 2006 all of them have been minor revisions with "I haven't assembled it yet, see the 2006 instructions"
< 1272771026 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why bother, man, why bother
< 1272771028 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you haven't even tried it :P
< 1272771063 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah.
< 1272771080 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also dammit i really wish core i7 supported ecc /sigh
< 1272771165 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd go AMD, but AMD processors suck.
< 1272771217 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pay extra for a xeon
< 1272771227 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: "no"
< 1272771239 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have to get special mobo, costs a lot more, iffiness about heatsinks, different socket etc.
< 1272771259 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Xeons are at a "bend over and take it" price point.
< 1272771619 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'s a good price point :P
< 1272771627 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1272771629 0 :alise!~alise@212.183.140.37 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272772163 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117191&cm_re=xeon-_-19-117-191-_-Product
< 1272772166 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :come on, that's not too bad
< 1272773508 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now add all the other ghosts, and see my other complaints
< 1272774163 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghosts?
< 1272774242 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm going to have some tea
< 1272774251 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, costs
< 1272774253 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not ghosts
< 1272774256 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: dammit, I want tea
< 1272774259 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're such an english fucker
< 1272774350 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck it. I'm getting some tea too.
< 1272774401 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm, delicously delicious Earl Grey.
< 1272774557 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know what?
< 1272774558 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck you guys.
< 1272774593 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean there's a British person without tea?
< 1272774603 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To obtain tea I would have to:
< 1272774615 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- go downstairs; a laborous task
< 1272774618 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- find tea
< 1272774620 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- prepare tea
< 1272774624 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- walk back upstairs
< 1272774634 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could've sworn the need for tea was so ingrained into the British genome that it was still quite noticable several generations removed from Britain.
< 1272774635 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not only am I tired and I should really sleep as it's 4:30 am, but...
< 1272774638 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :naw.
< 1272774644 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: SADLY NOT.
< 1272774650 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even know if there's any decent tea here.
< 1272774659 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I still have quite a need for tea.
< 1272774668 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're just crazy.
< 1272774693 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You wouldn't even believe it, there are people here who put COW'S MILK in tea! Only Douglas Adams is allowed to do that!
< 1272774713 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... You mean there's people who don't do that?
< 1272774719 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What heathens.
< 1272774731 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU LUNATIC!
< 1272774740 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION dances before the moon
< 1272774746 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ere
< 1272774748 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have lapsang suochong
< 1272774862 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The traditional hanzi for that is... ?
< 1272774877 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wikipedes
< 1272774920 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ć‹‰ć™®ĺ±±ĺ°Źç¨®
< 1272774924 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ć‹‰ć™®ĺ±±ĺ°Źç¨®". Okay, that's straightforward enough.
< 1272774931 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wikiPEDOS
< 1272774937 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway seriously FUCK. YOU. GUYS
< 1272774954 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I expect you to lodge me & provide tea at my convenience as payment for this travesty
< 1272774964 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://anandtech.com/show/825/4
< 1272774966 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Small variety from the mountain Lap", apparently.
< 1272774969 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, cpu coolers from 2001
< 1272774989 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Learn Japanese and maybe I will. :P
< 1272774998 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO
< 1272775001 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...well, okay.
< 1272775008 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no reason for that except to make you squirm.)
< 1272775015 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I pay you [learn Japanese] after you provide me with the service?
< 1272775018 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(though you *do* have the time. :P)
< 1272775020 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll sign a contract!
< 1272775027 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No I don't... not right now at least.
< 1272775031 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm too braindead on weekdays to.)
< 1272775054 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I strongly suspect a major portion of that is boredom.
< 1272775065 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Belive you me, boredom makes your brain fucking *dead*.
< 1272775080 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and being woken up at 7am every day.
< 1272775085 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that helps too
< 1272775091 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1272775097 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i've been getting dumber
< 1272775106 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: how old are you
< 1272775109 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that's just cruelty to anyone younger than, say, 25.
< 1272775114 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :100
< 1272775124 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: presumably in binary
< 1272775148 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, 4b10.
< 1272775172 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, today I learned that in third grade, Eliezer Yudkowsky bit his math teacher because she didn't know what a logarithm was
< 1272775183 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is just brilliant
< 1272775190 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beautiful.
< 1272775199 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, how can you not know what a logarithm is?
< 1272775206 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean *god* that's basic.
< 1272775211 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10100 in binary
< 1272775216 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I didn't when I was that age, but that's only because the state education system was tainting my mind.
< 1272775232 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of my coworkers was trying to get me to explain logarithms to her the other day
< 1272775233 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was dumb right up until approximately the time I dropped out.
< 1272775243 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :she couldn't get it
< 1272775254 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well your mind shouldn't be going at 20 unless you were exceptionally smart before
< 1272775260 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i conclude you're just thinking you're getting dumber!
< 1272775281 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh jesus christ
< 1272775284 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see what i mean?
< 1272775290 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1272775299 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant 10011
< 1272775300 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...what
< 1272775303 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1272775305 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough then
< 1272775324 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: To make it even more awesome, I learned this as part of the only Harry Potter fanfiction to invoke quantum physics and Bayesian probability... why Yudkowsky wrote it I've no idea: http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5782108/1/Harry_Potter_and_the_Methods_of_Rationality
< 1272775334 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("You turned into a cat! A SMALL cat!")
< 1272775335 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Hahahah.
< 1272775346 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is quite thoroughly awesome though.
< 1272775368 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He *actually wrote* a HP fanfiction?
< 1272775375 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow.
< 1272775399 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's 17 chapters long so far!
< 1272775407 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's amazing, in a kind of this-is-an-utterly-pointless-exercise way.
< 1272775409 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm
< 1272775413 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to build another computer
< 1272775416 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heheh.
< 1272775420 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: make it solid state
< 1272775428 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i encourage you to read it
< 1272775445 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: something like that
< 1272775458 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: it'd be awesome
< 1272775472 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could use it as your main machine and keep the powerhouse in some network'd cupboard
< 1272775480 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then make a command "faster" which sends commands to it
< 1272775487 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ gcc ... huge.c
< 1272775489 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^C
< 1272775491 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ faster gcc ... huge.c
< 1272775493 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zOMG SPEED
< 1272775494 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$
< 1272775520 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the name of the thing i'm thinking of??
< 1272775531 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is that thing
< 1272775547 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did "faster" automatically
< 1272775552 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no longer developed iirc
< 1272775558 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ccache?
< 1272775559 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :distcc?
< 1272775563 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assume we're talking cc stuff
< 1272775567 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than auto shellout stuff
< 1272775568 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Single-image multiprocessing?
< 1272775572 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno what ccache's actually called
< 1272775576 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost 5am damn
< 1272775576 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. Clustering.
< 1272775585 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1272775603 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :general purpose, it would migrate processes back and forth as need
< 1272775625 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Single-system image clustering.
< 1272775656 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's many implementations of it.
< 1272775717 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, MOSIX is what i was thinking of
< 1272775738 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MOSIX is still developed, though OpenMOSIX isn't.
< 1272776051 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought MOSIX wasn't even developed when it was developed.
< 1272776062 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mo' six plz
< 1272776073 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MOSIX: MAN POSIX!
< 1272776075 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :POSIX for MEN!
< 1272776240 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Hah.
< 1272776261 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got 99 problems but POSIX ain't one
< 1272778130 0 :Alex3012!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1272778165 0 :Alex3012!~chatzilla@ool-18b989d3.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272778468 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, I can't wait until I can be awake at this bedtime without a nagging feeling of doubt.
< 1272778686 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :glasses++
< 1272778708 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You are now wearing two pairs of glasses?? EXTRAORDINARY!
< 1272778722 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blargh, i still can't decide what heatsink to get
< 1272778733 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: Terahalems
< 1272778739 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like Megahalems, but moreso.
< 1272778740 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ++ only increments by one. Go back to C-like languages 101?
< 1272778746 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They take up 3 average office blocks.
< 1272778790 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Well, if you're the kind of person who needs glasses, you probably put them on every day, and you certainly don't mention it every day. So this has to be some special occurrence, not regular glasses-putting-on. If you need glasses you probably already have them on. So you'd be wearing two pairs. If you didn't need glasses, it's unlikely you'd have a reason to put them on just now.
< 1272778797 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the most likely explanation is that you are now wearing two pairs of glasses.
< 1272778855 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, I'm the kind of person who can see perfectly well without glasses, but who has better depth perception with glasses
< 1272778876 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it is strange to mention such a common event as putting on your glasses in here.
< 1272778889 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although you do do that quite a lot; I should have adjusted my estimate accordingly.
< 1272778891 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ho hum!
< 1272778894 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recently [minutes ago] got a hold of these glasses
< 1272778906 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haven't worn glasses since 2007 I think
< 1272778918 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So no, it is not a common occurance
< 1272778973 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you've been living with bad depth perception for that time? Knowingly?
< 1272778980 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is this a recently-discovered thing?
< 1272778991 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Knowingly
< 1272779015 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well that's silly.
< 1272779213 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shit, it is almost 6 am!
< 1272779694 0 :alise_!~alise@212.183.140.54 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272779701 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :abc
< 1272779743 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6 am? Hold out for 5 am, alise!
< 1272779744 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1272779758 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-wut
< 1272779789 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1272779790 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just another 23 hours.
< 1272779803 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could even get some tea to help you.
< 1272779809 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You realise that a few hours after /that/, I will have to go back to the Place?
< 1272779816 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1272779820 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that I can barely function with one day's sleep deprivation?
< 1272779825 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1272779838 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although one day looks likely now, much as I hate to admit it (as I seem to think that not admitting it will prevent it)...
< 1272779849 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Happened last week too; why Friday night but not Saturday I wonder?
< 1272779856 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Do I sleep, that is.)
< 1272779863 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tea would be nice though. But what if things get boring?
< 1272779864 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you realise that I find it hard to be serious?
< 1272779901 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, I know. But your advice is telling me to do things that I want to do, against my better judgement.
< 1272779912 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'm trying to make you refine it into something close but slightly more reasonable and serious.
< 1272779926 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which you should probably not do, even though it won't change anything.
< 1272779937 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jesus christ, I wish I could just replace myself with a very small, rational, program.
< 1272779986 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I strongly suggest you spend the next week asleep and wake up refreshed and free on Friday night.
< 1272780087 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another facet of my irrationality is that I find it very hard to disobey when the idiotic knocks on the door - like I'm some sort of young child who isn't /intentionally/ not getting out of bed - progress from "<time>; time to get up" from "Are you not up yet?! It's <time> to eight! Gasp!".
< 1272780114 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus they'd probably just get oh-so-worried and assign someone to keep watch on me 24/7 like they do with some of the others (and I mean that 24 literally).
< 1272780196 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yawn. My life there has progressed from intolerable in so many subtle ways, to merely so boring it's hard to think of anything moreso.
< 1272780317 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also --
< 1272780322 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Cookies! Have you ever thought about cookies?
< 1272780331 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I even forgot. I go mad when I don't sleep.
< 1272780376 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: How long until you start hallucinating?
< 1272780402 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We need an op in here, stat!
< 1272780417 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The most I have managed is on the order of 40 hours. I didn't hallucinate, but in the day or so before I was talking about metacampfires, which did verily descend into recursion infinitely, and also how stupid me sneezing on to my hand was.
< 1272780425 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the same paragraph.
< 1272780441 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1272780465 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's funny because there's a kind of inner calm sane person in my head, with the sort of skewy effects of tiredness on top, and it's kind of mocking me while I type out really ridiculous stuff drowsily.
< 1272780500 0 :Rugxulo!~rugxulo@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272780542 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: what time is it in the American States, United?
< 1272780727 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: 17:08 UTC+12, 15:08 Chamorro, 02:08 Atlantic, 01:08 Eastern, 00:08 Central, 11:08 Mountain, 10:08 Pacific, 09:08 Alaska, 08:08 Hawaii-Aleutian, 07:08 Samoan, 06:08 UTC-12.
< 1272780739 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: heh -- and I just started to type "IT'S ANSWER TIME", too.
< 1272780740 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That covers all time zones in US territory.
< 1272780759 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I can safely discard Alaska, and I'm sure the UTC12s...
< 1272780759 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(UTC+12 and UTC-12 because the islands in them do not have defined time zones, and thus use nautical time)
< 1272780766 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chamorro too, and Hawaii.
< 1272780784 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Samoan.
< 1272780786 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So we have 2:08 Atlantic, 1:08 Eastern, 0:08 Central, 11:08 Mountain, 10:08 Pacific.
< 1272780798 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that 10/11 p.m. or a.m.?
< 1272780801 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also Atlantic.
< 1272780806 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd assume the former, but your two-digit hours confuse me.
< 1272780811 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is Puerto Rico.
< 1272780815 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those are 24-hour.
< 1272780828 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did not know there was such disrepancy.
< 1272780836 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1:08 to 11:08; gosh.
< 1272780836 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a little after midnight here
< 1272780847 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact I'm instinctively denying it.
< 1272780854 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: Dude, the US is about the size of *Europe*.
< 1272780863 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, but it clashes with my expectations so much.
< 1272780874 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You guys have to... plan... think... about talking to someone in the SAME COUNTRY AS YOU because of time.
< 1272780875 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoa.
< 1272780876 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, let me rephrase. What time is it where you are, right now?
< 1272780882 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:14.
< 1272780895 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's better.
< 1272780900 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's crazy is how our time zones are defined.
< 1272780904 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US-Timezones.svg
< 1272780904 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you won't be here to support my folly soon enough; woe.
< 1272780908 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about this makes sense?
< 1272780913 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, at least, unless you pull an all-nighter too, which I doubt.
< 1272780927 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably go to bed in a couple of hours.
< 1272780928 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aah, certain people are going to be pissed at me when they wake up.
< 1272780933 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do I do this to myself?
< 1272781012 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, now I hate you for implanting the stay-awake seed in my mind.
< 1272781020 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :latest lame Befunge creation:    http://www.pastebin.org/197670
< 1272781033 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't seem reversible, either: 6:16 am; give the time it takes me to finally convince myself; then the time to do it; and it's morning already.
< 1272781044 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will take my anger out on Rugxulo. Fuck you! Grr. >_>
< 1272781079 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Timezones2008.png See that size?
< 1272781081 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's too late (early?) for fizzie and AnMaster, I have a dumb question for one or both of them
< 1272781088 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Multiple time zones make sense for the US.
< 1272781095 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't talk about time, Rugxulo.
< 1272781098 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except Arizona in their infinite wisdom
< 1272781098 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dooo not talk about time.
< 1272781111 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: why are they segregated into nice little boundaries.
< 1272781111 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Arizona is just silly.
< 1272781134 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: What, the time zones?
< 1272781150 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those are generally county lines in the US.
< 1272781170 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is that area, that does not observe DST?
< 1272781176 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arizona.
< 1272781204 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The parts of Arizona that are not an Indian reservation, specifically.
< 1272781261 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool, Arizona be cool
< 1272781262 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DST is shit
< 1272781263 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(an Indian nation, being simultaneously a sovereign nation and part of the US, sets its own time zone. (and no, that does not make any sense to me either))
< 1272781266 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shitbags on a pogo stick
< 1272781276 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also Hawaii that doesn't do DST.
< 1272781284 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hawaii coo
< 1272781287 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can i sleep now, wanna sleep
< 1272781290 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :feel stupid when no sleepy
< 1272781327 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I waste one day of my weekend. How stupid am I?!
< 1272781329 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sdfkd[g
< 1272781359 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, dumb question but does every state have an Indian reservation?
< 1272781363 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I know ours does)
< 1272781377 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm an Indian reservation
< 1272781379 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I need to pee.
< 1272781382 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too tired to pee though
< 1272781398 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, GCC 4.4.4 released two days ago
< 1272781407 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funny how they do that even when 4.5.0 is out
< 1272781473 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Most do.
< 1272781481 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's really bizarre is that we spend *most* of the year in DST...
< 1272781485 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to - this is all you fauuuuult
< 1272781489 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate you
< 1272781662 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is considering getting an iPad for his step-mother's mother
< 1272781683 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Getting someone an iPad: Always a bad idea.
< 1272781691 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, why?
< 1272781714 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :She wants me to teach her how to use the computer. So why not get her something that's very simple to use?
< 1272781735 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that will be hers
< 1272781738 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the iPad doesn't teach you how to use a computer... but it probably would teach her how to do what she wants, yes...
< 1272781741 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm...
< 1272781746 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's actually such a disturbing idea I'm afraid of it.
< 1272781756 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apple have found an amazing market and filled it with PURE EVIL.
< 1272781765 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the PURE EVIL is /great technology/...
< 1272781774 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ineedsleep
< 1272781914 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get her a netbook instead
< 1272781924 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Running what?
< 1272781925 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could drop the iPad easier
< 1272781930 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows? Almost impossible to use.
< 1272781936 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux? Not really suitable for this, in any of its incarnations.
< 1272781942 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS X? Doesn't come in netbook form; not suitable.
< 1272781946 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how so? I'm not in love with Windows by any means, but it's not impossible ... surely easier to maintain
< 1272781958 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maintain? We're talking someone who /does not know how to use a computer/.
< 1272781960 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are some good netbook Linuxes, from what I've read
< 1272781966 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows is only easy because we've used it for so long.
< 1272781973 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean "maintain" as in "it's more popular, so more people can help teach her"
< 1272781979 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This woman almost certainly wants to -- use email. The web. And that is about it.
< 1272781980 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1272781985 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :netbook
< 1272781989 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So? It's hard to mess up a few taps -- and I dislike the iPad, note.
< 1272781994 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck, make it dual boot if you're that worried
< 1272781997 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or use VirtualBox
< 1272781999 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you quite grasp the concept of usability.
< 1272782005 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would make the problem... indescribably worse.
< 1272782011 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's what you get from someone who likes DOS...
< 1272782017 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;-)
< 1272782024 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOSEMU or DOSBox ftw!!   ;-)
< 1272782030 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least I ain't suggesting BefOS   :-P
< 1272782060 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Get her an iPad if and only if you are sure she will never use a computer in a greater capacity than what I have enumerated; and repent afterwards.
< 1272782076 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't get one of those, they're too new, it's not something to learn on
< 1272782082 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, call it a computer, not a souped-up phone, or she'll probably get angry.
< 1272782090 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least a netbook is portable and can close its lid (thereby somewhat protecting the screen)
< 1272782092 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Well, the iPhone OS is not that new really.
< 1272782100 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, the iPad is portable...
< 1272782103 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you don't "learn" the web and email.
< 1272782108 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is barely any "knowledge" in it.
< 1272782144 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :She has trouble working her (non-smart)phone..
< 1272782146 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :believe it or not, complete newbies don't know when to double-click, how to properly turn off the computer (or shutdown the OS), what programs to open for what, etc.
< 1272782156 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course they don't.
< 1272782168 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With the iPad, you press your finger on the thing saying Safari to go on "The Internet".
< 1272782186 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you press whatever you want to go to on the screen, or hunt-and-peck on the keyboard to use "the Google".
< 1272782205 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will not allow her to use wrong terminology
< 1272782212 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to talk to people on e-male, you press the little picture with "Mail" underneath it. Then you touch the messages you want, and press the little thing saying "Reply" to say something more.
< 1272782220 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Hopeless. Just accept it.
< 1272782247 0 :cheater3!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1272782260 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow; I'm no longer so tired. The weird feeling of my skeletal structure is gone.
< 1272782270 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only the slight haze -- the inner yawn -- is there, of course it's the worst thing, but...
< 1272782300 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to have to put you to sleep permanently again.
< 1272782319 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hawt
< 1272782430 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's my retaliation to anything like that in future
< 1272782433 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just make people feel awkward
< 1272782443 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, i'm legal in less than two years!
< 1272782444 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1272782600 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that i'll be in this country by then
< 1272782669 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :legal?
< 1272782694 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes me think you're ultra young
< 1272782694 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will no longer be an illegal immigrant because I will become a flower.
< 1272782699 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm 14.
< 1272782711 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously? okay, not a huge shock, lots in here (esp. ehird) are young too
< 1272782713 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is 30
< 1272782722 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I /am/ ehird, you fool!
< 1272782729 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--this nick is what we refer to as "a long story".
< 1272782743 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought he was 15 (can't remember, oh well)
< 1272782758 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No; 12 and 13 are the ages I've been here.
< 1272782762 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe so
< 1272782766 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :His 14th birthday was fairly recent.
< 1272782770 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, you strong math interest seems odd for your age  ;-)
< 1272782771 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most definitely so :P
< 1272782794 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever happened to that static Linux distro you were working on? gave up?
< 1272782795 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was raped by mathematics as a young child. :|
< 1272782795 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: For most everyone who's in #esoteric, though?
< 1272782808 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: I decided it wasn't worth the effort since Linux is pretty inherently shitty
< 1272782817 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I started coming to this channel when I was 15...
< 1272782818 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I could spend my time being slightly more annoyed at existing distros while doing more productive things
< 1272782831 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION taunts alise_ with tea
< 1272782845 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: FUCK YOU
< 1272782857 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: I would've built it for curiosity's sake, but it's a major pain getting things working with just static linking.
< 1272782861 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it's a huge undertaking to make your own distro
< 1272782865 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially trying to bootstrap.
< 1272782869 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also: not really.
< 1272782874 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's *tedious*, but not that hard.
< 1272782885 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very tedious and time consuming, lots of little bugs to workaround
< 1272782904 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not /huge/.
< 1272782908 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only good if you intend to use it full time, otherwise not worth the effort
< 1272782908 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LFS has almost mechanised the process.
< 1272782916 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if you want something usable for /other people/, of course...
< 1272782924 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never really cared much about other people. As in, in an immediate sense.
< 1272782938 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is intimately familiar with *most* of the problems involved.
< 1272782949 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have spent too much time on build automation. :P
< 1272782952 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are definitely too many Linux distros, there just don't need to be 100+ Ubuntu derivatives, sheesh!!!
< 1272782966 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree ther.
< 1272782968 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about Ubuntu integrals?
< 1272782968 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*there
< 1272782976 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you know you can download and install Hannah Montana Linux?
< 1272782977 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh very yes.
< 1272782982 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a variant of Kubuntu!
< 1272782990 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Seriously.
< 1272783017 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ubuntu antidifferentiation is the result of restoring a modified Ubuntu to its stock state.
< 1272783018 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only one I even could like on a technical level was, amusingly, Gnewsense.
< 1272783024 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what's an integral?
< 1272783052 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because they automated their freeing-up-thing.
< 1272783057 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q : How/why did you make such a great OS?
< 1272783057 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A : I thought - what would attract young users to Linux? So I created this idea after a lot of reading and work.
< 1272783060 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1272783076 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is at least more work than just about every other Ubuntu derivative.
< 1272783097 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it also at least has *some* purpose, though that purpose is ideological)
< 1272783112 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and the huge yawns start.
< 1272783118 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to start taking melatonin.
< 1272783125 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272783129 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems there is no other way I can maintain a sleep pattern, apart from authority.
< 1272783142 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a good idea, actually. Why am I not already taking melatonin?
< 1272783161 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: If it makes you feel better, "normal" sleep patterns are not feasible for teenagers outside of authority.
< 1272783169 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course.
< 1272783173 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not sleeping at all is ludicrous.
< 1272783192 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_, you're an Internet addict!
< 1272783197 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're talking to a guy who has stayed up 30 hours for the purpose of watching a series in a single sitting.
< 1272783197 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, anything is possible with melatonin :P
< 1272783197 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't not sleep at all
< 1272783199 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't sleep, then I get really tired and practically collapse
< 1272783200 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ...Duh.
< 1272783200 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1272783201 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this cycle repeats itself
< 1272783208 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: you don't not sleep at all!
< 1272783218 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1272783222 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: did it gradually get more and more arsty
< 1272783225 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I try
< 1272783232 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: No.
< 1272783238 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really need to pee now, it feels like I'm pregnant
< 1272783240 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm still too tired
< 1272783257 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It gradually got more and more ass-pully until it got to the end, which was the most perfect ending possible.
< 1272783258 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternative hypothesis; maybe I am pregnant and this uncomfortability is the baby
< 1272783270 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ass-pully?
< 1272783278 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, now I just think you're talking about some weird abstract sex.
< 1272783285 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which series?
< 1272783293 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ass-Pully, clearly
< 1272783374 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It occurs to me that this comic is starting to suck"
< 1272783383 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, alise_, when you wake up, read Fine Structure?
< 1272783400 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wake up? Not before I sleep; and when I do I will then go to the unit.
< 1272783406 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry.
< 1272783414 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I just won't bother doing these things until I'm out of there.
< 1272783421 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: what is it that you're watching?
< 1272783448 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION loves how "you're" works for both present and past tense.
< 1272783456 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least, it SHOULD
< 1272783471 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1272783471 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Had watched.
< 1272783482 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think pikhq is avoiding answering.
< 1272783483 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why shouldn't you were == you're?
< 1272783490 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Ok. What is it that you had watched?
< 1272783491 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So obviously it was Ass-Pully 3: Extreme Ass Pulley Sluts
< 1272783497 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A whole SERIES would you belive.
< 1272783498 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's something like Elfen Lied, no one will judge
< 1272783499 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*believe
< 1272783505 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Because it doesn't. Velkommen to the English Language.
< 1272783507 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey! You can't tell me I won't judge...
< 1272783519 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll judge him for anything!
< 1272783526 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I won't judge, unless you call a CFJ
< 1272783552 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's a porn series, I'll judge you for watching for the plot.
< 1272783577 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if it's a business management course
< 1272783603 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Code Geass.
< 1272783611 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heard of it. That's about all.
< 1272783621 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in other news, Stargate Universe is awesome.
< 1272783623 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Season 2 had half of its plot be ass-pulls.
< 1272783624 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :co-educational gas
< 1272783647 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finished watching SG-1 the other day
< 1272783653 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They pulled the same plot twist for the second episode in a row this week. It was beautiful.
< 1272783669 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: isn't that ... bad writing
< 1272783685 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a friend who likes SGU
< 1272783738 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: No, given the nature of the twist
< 1272783750 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The twist is ...
< 1272783751 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THERE IS
< 1272783751 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO
< 1272783752 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TWIST
< 1272783775 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a twist involved in the same twist happening twice?
< 1272783797 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... it's not really so much a twist as messing with your expectations of the plot. But it's sufficiently significant for it to warrant the designation.
< 1272783909 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If you really care, I'll tell you what it is in PM)
< 1272783924 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure
< 1272783928 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, feel free. I won't watch it.
< 1272783931 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, him.
< 1272784249 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: bored
< 1272785468 0 :Rugxulo!~rugxulo@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272786025 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272787199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1272787200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272787429 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1272787517 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272787542 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now my pee-need-o-meter is at defcon 24; my sleep-need-o-meter is at 3+4i
< 1272787543 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                |                                      |
< 1272787543 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :               /<                                     /|
< 1272787550 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you, myndzi.
< 1272787556 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, I am tired
< 1272787564 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hit
< 1272787566 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: why?
< 1272787571 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sleep
< 1272787579 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You hit the sleep button.
< 1272787580 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of going to bed
< 1272787593 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut
< 1272787602 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: because I'm tired
< 1272787604 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on my computer
< 1272787605 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I put my computer to sleep
< 1272787607 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of myself
< 1272787609 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1272787610 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1272787624 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also fuck I have so much work to do
< 1272787692 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_, SLEEP
< 1272787700 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: At 8 am? Ludicrous.
< 1272787710 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has done that before
< 1272787737 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but it leads to you waking up at times inopportune for getting a good NIGHT'S sleep the following - well, not following now - day.
< 1272788295 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is the harp so awesome?
< 1272788302 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't
< 1272788312 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1272788449 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks he just saved even *more* bytes by doing some weird trickery (inspired by loose understanding of Forth threading models)
< 1272788463 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was 1014 bytes, now 980, and it seems to (still) work!
< 1272788465 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not easy to do
< 1272788468 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :harps are amazing
< 1272788474 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops, 982
< 1272788482 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, flute-level awesome
< 1272788502 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, more awesome than the flute
< 1272788562 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and compression makes it worse, go figure
< 1272788574 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a harp like crazy mad hard to change the strings??
< 1272788578 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*isn't
< 1272788581 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably
< 1272788598 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, I misunderstood, thought you were messing with a real harp
< 1272788598 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could care less though
< 1272788602 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1272788612 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just rambling now
< 1272788805 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but seriously, the harp is awesome
< 1272788819 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think my bladder is in serious danger
< 1272788820 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :listing to some music?
< 1272788833 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks
< 1272788834 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1272788834 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :danger is not a good thing
< 1272788837 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor are serious things
< 1272788842 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore, serious danger must be doubly bad
< 1272788844 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do my legs work?
< 1272788858 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know...
< 1272788870 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, now the Befunge benchmark is slow again (back to self-modifying speeds)
< 1272788922 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just assumes it's the P4's fault
< 1272789121 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The P4's performance gets screwed by minor things like "branch misses".
< 1272789131 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. Branch prediction misses.
< 1272789141 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did they even make the P4?
< 1272789144 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most other CPUs are hurt by it, but the P4 gets completely *screwed* by it.
< 1272789165 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: Because clock rate = speed!
< 1272789200 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Pentium 4 went up to a *31-stage* pipeline.
< 1272789212 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note to fizzie (if you're log reading), I can't get be.fs to work with GForth or pForth
< 1272789232 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb pee time nao
< 1272789241 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they made the P4 to be able to scale to 10 Ghz
< 1272789249 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hence they simplified the logic somewhat (I think)
< 1272789277 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they broke some common optimizations, introduced a trace cache, no barrel shifter (?), etc.
< 1272789279 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They made the pipeline so deep for the sole purpose of getting the clockrate to go up.
< 1272789318 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prescott went to ~3.4 Ghz, but that was too hot, so they abandoned that and went back to Pentium-M for further work ("Core" 1, 2)
< 1272789339 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(deep pipeline means you can do fewer instructions per clock which means you can do a significantly higher clockrate)
< 1272789391 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This was all obviously a dead end. They had to go back to a Pentium III design just to get decent performance...
< 1272789425 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God. 31 stage pipeline...
< 1272789469 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@129.241.210.68 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272789524 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should sleep
< 1272789545 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's such a lovely morning!
< 1272789550 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cackles evilly
< 1272789568 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on actually looking, it seems a bit grey
< 1272789619 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presently no hailstones like yesterday though
< 1272789923 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume all the hullabaloo over Ejfasflaskdjfasd has blown over by now?
< 1272789945 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(U.S. is all concerned over big oil spill headed our way)
< 1272790054 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: what i've vaguely picked up is (1) the volcano has calmed down a bit (2) the wind doesn't blow directly to europe at the time, probably (3) they did actual tests and found out it's not as dangerous to planes as they feared
< 1272790131 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"headed" your way? i seemed to have read it had landed...
< 1272790159 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :honestly, it's so boring a story, and the news never gets to the point, beats around the bush like crazy, so I'm too lazy to sit there for hours wondering wtf ...
< 1272790198 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at one time somebody said they were gonna light it all on fire to "help", but I guess they never did that
< 1272790238 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :norway cares deeply about oil spills though.  there is this island archipelago Lofoten, and the question of whether to drill close to it (there are _huge_ fisheries there, not to mention a prime tourist destination) is majorly divisive in our politics
< 1272790261 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so this US oil spill will probably shift our political balance a bit
< 1272790298 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they claim it's probably worse than the Exxon Valdez spill from way back
< 1272790318 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what really gets me is that people (restaurants) are already being told to form class action lawsuits, ugh
< 1272790340 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well _that_ is a US thing :D D:
< 1272790442 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: report I just read earlier says it's not yet as bad as Exxon Valdez, but it will get there if it doesn't get controlled soon, and that doesn't seem likely
< 1272790502 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well pardon my ignorance, but lighting it on fire does NOT seem like the answer
< 1272790507 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(on the one hand they want to drill near Lofoten, on the other hand they want to get it onto the Unesco world heritage list)
< 1272790512 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it is, who knows, but it just sounds dumb
< 1272790537 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :need for oil is just too prevalent, cars are everywhere
< 1272790542 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back
< 1272790577 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: hey yeah you said a couple of hours :)
< 1272790580 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: shouldn't _you_ sleep?  or maybe you already have
< 1272790582 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway
< 1272790588 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: almost 9am; no point
< 1272790598 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1272790599 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really, really need to start taking melatonin
< 1272790688 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously, ridiculous.
< 1272790694 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm maybe i should try that some time
< 1272790742 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah according to the infallible god of gwern speaking on less wrong, you take it and half an hour later you're asleep, no getting out of it
< 1272790749 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1272790754 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's basically a way of taking advantage of the fact that you can make a good decision about your bedtime /before/ the fact...
< 1272790786 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :certainly I don't see myself avoiding taking it; after all, I want to sleep at some point, I just hate the whole going-to-bed-and-not-sleeping thing.
< 1272790836 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_, I googled melatonin, and the picture wasn't QUITE as rosy, don't remember why
< 1272790841 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I should sleep
< 1272790857 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that "not QUITE as rosy" as in "bad bad bad", or "watch out slightly..."?
< 1272790861 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should just ask gwern.
< 1272790871 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"watch out slightly"
< 1272790874 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't remember why
< 1272790888 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, unless it has permanent side effects, I don't really care; if they cause any temporary ones, I'd simply discontinue taking them.
< 1272790941 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :While the packaging of melatonin often warns against use in children, at least one long-term study[86] does assess effectiveness and safety in children. No serious safety concerns were noted in any of the 94 cases studied by means of a structured questionnaire for the parents. With a mean follow up time of 3.7 years, long-term medication was effective against sleep onset problems in 88% of the cases.
< 1272790946 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's good to know
< 1272791128 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Night all
< 1272791134 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw; night
< 1272791320 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :green, fleshy matter
< 1272791379 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: I don't logread, but I usually notice mentions of my name; in any case, yes, I'm not terribly surprised that's the case. I'll see if I can make a better one one of these days.
< 1272791398 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to drink pure liquid condensed sleep ... warm
< 1272791474 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I'm not 100% sure what each threading model means in Forth, but I did something similar and shrank BEFI.COM to 982 bytes (but the benchmark is slow on P4 again, meh)
< 1272791499 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272791512 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that you care, of course, but hey, *I* found it interesting    ;-))
< 1272791519 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, mayhaps I should look at size-optimizing an interpreter too. Too much to do, again.
< 1272791532 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :step one:  kick GCC to the door   ;-)
< 1272791541 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ... or use dietlibc
< 1272791561 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although I actually compiled fbbi in dietlibc on PuppyLinux yesterday, buggy / segfaulted)
< 1272791577 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could hand-craft something for ARM, the Thumb instruction set there is supposedly quite economical.
< 1272791585 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I think OpenWatcom has some pretty small code generation (static ELF for Linux, too)
< 1272791605 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.9rc5 was just released, probably final RC until 1.9 proper
< 1272791626 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish there was something meant for humans in between ASM and C.
< 1272791638 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it depends
< 1272791654 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inline asm? shortcut mini-langs like Context or C-- ?
< 1272791668 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LLVM IR?
< 1272791675 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inline asm still carries all the semantic & code-size baggage of C, and the language inside it is not really a midpoint;
< 1272791676 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C isn't so bad, it's the damn C libraries that are so hugely bloated
< 1272791681 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-- is not human-usable in the slightest;
< 1272791686 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LLVM IR even lessso.
< 1272791691 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, lessso.
< 1272791694 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is some word.
< 1272791695 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice
< 1272791697 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-- is usable, sure, no worse than asm (or HLL asm)
< 1272791708 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's obviously designed for machines.
< 1272791712 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has annoying inconveniences for human use.
< 1272791713 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of Unicode (which was spoken of at some point yesterday); recently I've been dabbling on a .NET implementation of Glass (Glass#?) -- to make .NET programming a bit more bearable, y'know -- and to avoid conflicts between housekeeping stuff and user-defined-in-Glass stuff, I prefixed all the Glass-defined names with the glottal stop character Ę”; it was the first Unicode character I came across that had a name starting with "gl".
< 1272791719 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant Sphinx C--
< 1272791723 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd totally write my own libc, but I don't want to fuck with syscalls and the like.
< 1272791734 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: then I know not of it.
< 1272791741 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know it exists, yes; but none of the details.
< 1272791747 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: should have found some dingbat for a wine glass or something
< 1272791760 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly. I can still change it.
< 1272791791 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://c--sphinx.narod.ru/indexe.htm
< 1272791817 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :glottal stop looks like a question mark to me
< 1272791831 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks like a question mark that fell and got its dot squished
< 1272791838 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poor thing
< 1272791846 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crazy idea for an esolang:  all a-based letters for instructions (a grave, a breve, etc.)
< 1272791853 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: And here it is possible to look last year's news.
< 1272791881 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-- is just for Windows. Unacceptable.
< 1272791892 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's the cup, â•, but that's undeniably a cup, not a glass. The only thing that has the world "glass" in UnicodeData.txt is the hourglass, âŚ›.
< 1272791897 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And last release 1996; quite dire.
< 1272791906 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hourglasses are awesome. go for it
< 1272791908 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: call the compiler hour, or sand, then
< 1272791913 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: that sounds like YABFV
< 1272791919 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ha.zip (40k)	HA archiver (1.5 times faster than the original)."
< 1272791928 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was rewritten in C--
< 1272791935 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't think it's any faster on modern machines, only old ones
< 1272791940 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha ha ha
< 1272791964 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess stripped-down C with a much lighter library would be what I want
< 1272791967 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no, not 1996, there is a circa 2003 release or such (I forget exactly)
< 1272791976 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(like, ideally most of the library functions would be inline)
< 1272791988 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically a C subset closely bound to assembly, almost like a HLL assembler with flow control
< 1272792013 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the *nix asmutils project has a tiny libc, and dietlibc implements a lot of stuff in assembly
< 1272792027 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, asmutils has a tiny libc
< 1272792031 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can never use dietlibc because of its license.
< 1272792033 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1996 was Celik's last version, I think, later maintained by new dude
< 1272792038 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GPL?
< 1272792055 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: If IR wasn't meant to be written, why does it exist? Far easier for a program to generate LLVM code directly
< 1272792057 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, not even LGPL; and the guy is clearly quite mad, saying it's to stop Microsoft stealing his code.
< 1272792069 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Insanity/stupidity!
< 1272792081 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P.S. ha (C-- rewrite) was a lot faster than original on my 486, but 7-Zip is like 2x faster still (and better compression)
< 1272792101 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I know, he dislikes MS
< 1272792125 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1272792131 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll admit, some things should never be GPL if you intend wide use ... but GPL is a political force, so it's pretty much everywhere (and not really unreasonable for most things)
< 1272792155 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but what /is/ unreasonable for my use is using a libc that requires all my code to be under the Holy Oversight of rms' license.
< 1272792167 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You cannot even distribute OTHER PEOPLE'S CODE compiled with dietlibc, if it is not GPL.
< 1272792176 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it is COMPLETELY useless for any distribution, for one.
< 1272792184 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Linux distro, that is)
< 1272792184 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1272792191 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's pretty dumb
< 1272792192 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I love the code -
< 1272792192 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but most Linux geeks prefer GPL anyways
< 1272792195 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the ideology spoilt it.
< 1272792203 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assembly isn't really that bad
< 1272792207 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but most Linux geeks - in fact almost ALL, even rms -
< 1272792209 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like GPL, but for a libc? bleh
< 1272792212 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say that you should use LGPL for licenses
< 1272792223 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that's why it was created: because the GPL was worthless for licenses
< 1272792223 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RMS is so pedantic as to not use a computer whose BIOS isn't even open (which most aren't)
< 1272792223 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simple
< 1272792235 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1272792236 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not pedantry; zealotry.
< 1272792242 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't think Linux even uses the BIOS, even at bootup???
< 1272792246 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And while I dislike the man, I'd feel uneasy if /someone/ wasn't doing it.
< 1272792256 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RMS is so zealous that he won't even use a non-open BIOS, and yet even he advocates the LGPL
< 1272792276 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it really /is/ a shame, because the code was so nice.
< 1272792306 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I would love to use it, but even if I committed to using GPL for all my own stuff -- which I won't, I simply strongly dislike the license -- I can't change other people's licenses, and so I could not make the distribution I wanted to.
< 1272792307 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're still stuck with lousy software patents (at least in U.S.)
< 1272792320 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody would have been harmed had I been able to link other people's non-GPL code with dietlibc.
< 1272792331 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would not be tainted in any way; in fact, it'd probably be a nice little microdistro.
< 1272792342 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, all licenses are fairly useless and counter-productive, IMHO, because they only deal with stupid stuff
< 1272792342 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And so that's the sacrifice you make when you use GPL in situations where it's inappropriate:
< 1272792349 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your ideology maintained; at the cost of uselessness.
< 1272792361 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just use MIT or WTFPL depending on my mood.
< 1272792365 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything can be abused, GPL or not
< 1272792372 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a license can't stop that anyways
< 1272792373 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTFPL cannot be abused, certainly.
< 1272792388 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean used in a negative manner towards someone else (e.g. viruses)
< 1272792391 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, precisely
< 1272792406 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and really... when is microsoft going to "steal" some linux-specific minimalist libc
< 1272792422 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact i think a lot of the "bad corporations STEALING!!" fluff from gpl advocates is basically egoism...
< 1272792423 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they haven't already ... various companies have done that before
< 1272792433 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I made this code; it's mine; you MUST acknowledge it's mine by not doing things I don't like with it"
< 1272792436 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get over it, seriously
< 1272792447 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the long term you are not harmed
< 1272792455 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole purpose of Gzip / Deflate was to have an unpatented compression method, and MS definitely uses it, enjoys all the benefits, but patents everything else out the wazoo
< 1272792462 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, so?
< 1272792463 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who is harmed?
< 1272792470 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by patents? everybody
< 1272792472 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who would care if not for a sense of attachment they have to their code?
< 1272792474 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by them using Gzip? nobody
< 1272792477 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: but that's unrelated
< 1272792480 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latter is what i'm talking about
< 1272792486 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, patents are completely useless and the whole system should be abolished
< 1272792493 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is copyright though :P
< 1272792500 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Welcome to the home of my Scheme interpreter/compiler, 'dream', written in x86 machine language. :-) "
< 1272792501 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impressive
< 1272792503 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll admit, we're wasting a lot of effort reinventing the wheel over silly incompatible licenses (even GPLv2 vs. v3)
< 1272792504 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All essential syntax and procedures from the R4RS standard are implemented.
< 1272792505 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The interpreter is properly tail recursive and passes all applicable tests from the 'r4rstest.scm' test suite.
< 1272792505 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rational arithmetic with 32 bit magnitude numerator and denominator, or up to 262112 bit magnitude if the GMP library is available, is supported (with sign stored separately), but no Real or Complex numbers (these currently are in the works).
< 1272792578 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :roller coaster tycoon!
< 1272792590 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, did you see my latest (lame) B93 creation?
< 1272792590 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck yeah
< 1272792593 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3
< 1272792596 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marry me
< 1272792604 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, huh?
< 1272792606 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1272792612 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: was written entirely in asm
< 1272792626 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :friggin awesome game too
< 1272792628 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :roller coaster tycoon?
< 1272792629 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1272792633 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272792634 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1272792639 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a game.
< 1272792640 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people do write big projects in asm
< 1272792650 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just not as heavily publicized as (C,C++,Java, etc.)
< 1272792664 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're mad though
< 1272792666 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes mad in a good way
< 1272792671 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1272792676 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like Mr. Sawyer
< 1272792716 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie:   http://www.pastebin.org/197670
< 1272792768 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1272792768 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: you might as well marry me, nobody else will {this is how twisted joke logic works without sleep}
< 1272792778 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, i scared him off.
< 1272792871 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION loves how his browser has to download several hundred kb of ads just to download a 20k file
< 1272792882 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :block them?
< 1272793025 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this new Opera 10.5 interface is a bit "hidden" by default, so it's slightly more cumbersome to find stuff
< 1272793118 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*10.50
< 1272793123 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :way past 10.5.
< 1272793198 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant 10.5x
< 1272793224 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10.52, build 3370
< 1272793495 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah, stupid Javascript Befunge (buggy)
< 1272793525 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you hear the hugely funny irony that Parrot's Befunge only had like two tests while HQ9+ had 13?
< 1272793547 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not /that/ funny
< 1272793563 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well how hard do you have to test a HQ9+ interpreter?????
< 1272793589 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ld: i386 architecture of input file `libc.o' is incompatible with i386:x86-64 out
< 1272793591 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW DO I FIX TIHS
< 1272793592 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*THIS
< 1272793593 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1272793607 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you trying to do?
< 1272793616 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"-m32" flag???
< 1272793670 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that work for ld
< 1272793750 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe, not sure honestly (don't use *nix much, esp. not 64-bit)
< 1272793794 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently "ld -A ARCH" or "--architecture ARCH" is supported
< 1272793797 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, -melf_i386 works
< 1272793802 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how you know apt has finished installing your package: update manager pops up
< 1272793841 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./libc.so.0
< 1272793841 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a r e   y o u   s i c k ?
< 1272793842 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1272793855 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf, only 19k
< 1272793858 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too small :|
< 1272793866 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1272793870 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now how do i statically link with it??? oh of course, libc.a is already there
< 1272793872 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: for a libc :P
< 1272793886 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc -static, ld -static
< 1272793890 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know
< 1272793895 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and apparently, as I found out yesterday, you have to use -all-static for libtool)
< 1272793911 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :else it's only static for external stuff, not libc etc.
< 1272793971 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/include/gnu/stubs.h:7:27: error: gnu/stubs-32.h: No such file or directory
< 1272793972 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr
< 1272793992 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you must have to install the 32-bit libs and headers and such
< 1272794001 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if AnMaster gets here, he can probably help)
< 1272794010 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but i already have a 32-bit libc
< 1272794012 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just the stupid gnu headers
< 1272794046 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ia32-libs is already the newest version.
< 1272794046 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ia32-libs set to manually installed.
< 1272794085 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, i need some sort of glibc devel
< 1272794099 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Later
< 1272794115 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux is so developer unfriendly sometimes
< 1272794227 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like windows isn't
< 1272794238 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it all is
< 1272794262 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems developers are the least of all to properly make it easy to compile anything
< 1272794273 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/bin/ld: errno: TLS definition in /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/4.3.3/../../../../lib32/libc.a(errno.o) section .tbss mismatches non-TLS reference in /home/jane/asmutils-0.18/lib/libc.a(libc.o)
< 1272794274 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :watttttttttttt
< 1272794288 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libc6-dev-i386, but you probably found that already.
< 1272794301 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably an incompatibility in asmutils' libc
< 1272794308 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incompatibility howso
< 1272794326 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, for one, I've never even heard of .tbss
< 1272794333 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but TLS maybe means thread local storage??
< 1272794362 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what exactly are you trying to build?
< 1272794372 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not thread local storage i am sure, this is ld errors
< 1272794378 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a simple binary with asmutils libc.
< 1272794396 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like I said, OpenWatcom is probably a better idea, but that's just MHO
< 1272794417 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on linux? ha
< 1272794424 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously, it has Linux binaries now
< 1272794496 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://owbuilder.malakovi.cz/snapshot/binl/
< 1272794517 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the proper installers (e.g. Win32, OS/2, DOS) should have all host files also (last I checked, 1.8 did)
< 1272794534 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the installers are actually just .ZIP sfx files, IIRC
< 1272794551 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :openwatcom is just /not/ in any universe i'm in or want to bein
< 1272794553 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*be in
< 1272794576 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not? it produces small code, and static ELF for Linux, to boot
< 1272794599 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, of course, i forgot -nostdlib
< 1272794604 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only one problem left
< 1272794605 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/bin/ld: warning: cannot find entry symbol _start; defaulting to 00000000080480c0
< 1272794606 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, if you rely on ./configure or POSIX instead of just ANSI or C99, you're out of luck
< 1272794609 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hey, it almost works
< 1272794614 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./hello
< 1272794614 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, world! 4286731992
< 1272794615 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Segmentation fault
< 1272794652 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you still never said what exactly you're trying to build
< 1272794674 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.openwatcom.org/index.php/Exploring_Windows_3.x
< 1272794690 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first freakin' sentence of the article:   "Windows 3.x is, thankfully, obsolete."
< 1272794693 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;-)
< 1272794699 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did say it
< 1272794715 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise_> just a simple binary with asmutils libc.
< 1272794721 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but you didn't say what
< 1272794771 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jane@jane-desktop:~/code/libc$ wc -c hello
< 1272794771 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20266 hello
< 1272794772 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jane@jane-desktop:~/code/libc$ wc -c hello.diet
< 1272794772 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11692 hello.diet
< 1272794777 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :diet libc is slimmer than asmutils.
< 1272794782 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even with prinf.
< 1272794784 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*printf
< 1272794795 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, diet is 64-bit if you want.
< 1272794895 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be quite honest trying to improve the libc is utter folly
< 1272794899 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it's so hideously broken in many, many ways
< 1272794973 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea of libc in general or just Linux libc?
< 1272794990 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the functions etc. in the specification of the c library.
< 1272795014 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to start with, buffer overflows galore; secondly, many inconsistencies; thirdly, no real concept of "string" but plenty of functions purporting to operate on """"strings""""...
< 1272795017 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously many (esp. GNU dudes) are more POSIX-oriented these days
< 1272795017 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the list goes on
< 1272795032 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and complaings 5-500: gets() exists/existed at some point
< 1272795037 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*complaints
< 1272795042 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically it's a horribly designed library in every wya.
< 1272795044 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*way
< 1272795046 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I knew you'd mention that one   ;-)
< 1272795064 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't have to use it exclusively ... heck, some people use both C and assembly intermixed
< 1272795073 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly for OS portability (see Paul Carter's tutorial)
< 1272795081 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't care; it's still an abomination because a perfectly good library-for-C COULD be made.
< 1272795112 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://fasmlib.x86asm.net/    (but it's dead)
< 1272795355 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no more updates will be coming, but it looks nice
< 1272795426 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fprintc(f, c); fprints(f, s); fprintf(f, fmt, ...); printc(c); prints(s); printf(fmt, ...);
< 1272795431 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ can't even get simple consistent naming right.
< 1272795475 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :putc, puts
< 1272795487 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which are a macro and (fairly useless) function
< 1272795489 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you trying to /rebut/ my point?
< 1272795494 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, puts is perfectly useful.
< 1272795503 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :useful, yes, but not often
< 1272795645 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and of course, f?prints would not print a newline, as there is clearly no call for it to do so...
< 1272796632 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: nap I guess
< 1272796770 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.
< 1272797082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Rugxulo> (if AnMaster gets here, he can probably help) <-- hi
< 1272797085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :help with what?
< 1272797362 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster never helps!
< 1272797385 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1272797425 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272797733 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :COMPUTERS SUCK
< 1272798933 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like
< 1272798939 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously.
< 1272799090 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.
< 1272799246 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fff who wants to join me in my quest to make computers awesome :P
< 1272800232 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh coq is so suboptimal
< 1272800363 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically
< 1272800367 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asserts should be transparent
< 1272800369 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they're opaque
< 1272801062 0 :hiato!~fdulu@41-132-16-47.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272801599 0 :cheater2!~cheater@ip-80-226-236-9.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272801810 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom_H@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272801899 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forgive my ignorance, but what is the Ackerman function for? What is interesting about it other than the fact that it generates really huge numbers really quickly?
< 1272801922 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First computable, non-primitive-recursive function discovered.
< 1272801943 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that means?
< 1272801973 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's maths/CS stuff.
< 1272801985 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically people thought primitive-recursive = computable, but it turns out it's a subset.
< 1272801998 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primitive_recursive_function
< 1272802003 0 :adam_d!~Adam@cpc2-acto6-0-0-cust48.brnt.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272802062 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you learn this stuff?
< 1272802117 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: it wasn't the first
< 1272802221 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato: first discovered, it was.
< 1272802221 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: study CS/maths.
< 1272802221 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly CS.
< 1272802222 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, like, computability-oriented CS is basically mathematics.
< 1272802244 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: I'm sure it was not. But let me check
< 1272802262 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudan_function
< 1272802266 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tha was
< 1272802279 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough.
< 1272802287 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the late 1920s, the mathematicians Gabriel Sudan and Wilhelm Ackermann, students of David Hilbert, were studying the foundations of computation. Sudan is credited with inventing the lesser-known Sudan function, the first published function that is recursive but not primitive recursive. Shortly afterwards and independently, in 1928, Ackermann published his own recursive but not primitive recursive function.[2]
< 1272802289 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not so far apart.
< 1272802339 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm afraid being right or wrong is absolute here :P
< 1272802367 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but I mean, it was independent.
< 1272802370 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that's the interest, still.
< 1272802372 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm tired, anyway.
< 1272802388 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh
< 1272802407 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: gonna remove HAL
< 1272802525 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't let him at the life support!
< 1272802591 0 :hiato!~fdulu@41-132-16-47.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272802609 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :daisy, daisy
< 1272802611 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :give me your answer do
< 1272802611 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc
< 1272802648 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato: How's the omnipotent superbeing thing?
< 1272802676 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, I was just dying over here
< 1272802688 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: heh, no more :P
< 1272802705 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: Don't worry, you come back in the next book.
< 1272802714 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You guys don't even know what happens when he's unplugged? Sheesh.
< 1272802724 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes!
< 1272802749 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've forgotten the exact details, though.
< 1272802779 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm talking about the film; I'm too uncouth to read the book.
< 1272802783 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway,
< 1272802784 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise_> daisy, daisy
< 1272802784 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise_> give me your answer do
< 1272802784 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise_> etc
< 1272802828 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pulls out the rest of alise_'s brain.
< 1272802850 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION enters Monolith.
< 1272802866 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[film stops making even the slightest amount of sense]
< 1272802889 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION watches what looks like space eggs being broken.
< 1272802919 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks at weirdly-coloured landscapes
< 1272802948 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION lands in inexplicable hotel
< 1272802966 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[things, happen
< 1272802967 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[things, happen]
< 1272802976 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION dies of old age
< 1272802996 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[credits]
< 1272802999 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION comes back at space embryo
< 1272803013 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU MAKE NO SENSE
< 1272803019 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/at/as/
< 1272803077 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shakes head in sorrow at quality of next film
< 1272803113 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For heaven's sake, was it *that* hard for them to remember that there is no sound in space?
< 1272803204 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[somewhere, sometime, somebody synchs up a certain Pink Floyd song, and rewinds]
< 1272803204 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ping! ... Ping!
< 1272803205 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[lots of Pings, lots of stuff]
< 1272803205 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :overhead the albatross etc.
< 1272803356 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :???
< 1272803434 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::|
< 1272803442 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1272803443 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Echoes" "supposedly" synchronises with the last part.
< 1272803455 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not so sure it does but it sure was trippy
< 1272803573 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wth are you guys on about?
< 1272803574 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a language called C Major?
< 1272803579 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If not, there must be one.
< 1272803592 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato: 2001, & Pink Floyd in my case; & their respective relationships.
< 1272803617 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: Right.
< 1272803628 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: D Minor
< 1272803646 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that's miniD
< 1272803689 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bleugh, Microsoft.
< 1272803786 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D != MS
< 1272803786 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1272803805 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but according to Google Dminor is a Microsoft language.
< 1272803819 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/downloads/cd60cdb0-353f-48b3-81d7-177621eba1bf/default.aspx
< 1272804087 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: lol, really? I made that up :P
< 1272804097 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O
< 1272804099 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, evidentally not
< 1272804105 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am appalled.
< 1272804123 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at?
< 1272804136 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your *lying*!
< 1272804137 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How accurate my imagination can be?
< 1272804170 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you were wrong in every specific.
< 1272804174 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: brb, need to kill screen
< 1272804184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hm I think it might be a good idea to call C# Dâ™­ instead
< 1272804193 0 :hiato!~fdulu@41-132-16-47.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272804199 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, I like that one.
< 1272804200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the language Dâ™­  that is)
< 1272804204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/  / /
< 1272804314 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1272804412 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'll have you know that due to your silly unicode error there, FFX now thhinks the bloody log is a binary file
< 1272804426 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, ffx?
< 1272804435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, also afaik that was proper unicode?
< 1272804442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least my client is set to send unicode
< 1272804442 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, perhaps it was myndzi
< 1272804450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Current charset: UTF-8"
< 1272804451 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Firefox
< 1272804454 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm
< 1272804458 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that it was myndzi
< 1272804467 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato: FFX doesn't think the logs are Uniode.
< 1272804472 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, he had escape characters
< 1272804476 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/Uniode/Unicode
< 1272804477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, uniode! :D
< 1272804484 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/10.05.02
< 1272804490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a diode but only one direction? ;)
< 1272804493 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get it as a bin file
< 1272804516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, can't do anything about that *shrug*
< 1272804531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also unicode is fairly common in here
< 1272804562 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you type lambda on an X11 keyboard.
< 1272804564 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I know, but it's just strange that it was now picked up as binary mime type
< 1272804582 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hm, compose key if only I could get it to read my customisations of that
< 1272804585 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/
< 1272804590 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fdulu@chippy> file 10.05.02 ---> 10.05.02: data
< 1272804611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, try removing my line from it and see what happens
< 1272804616 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it shouldn't matter
< 1272804642 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh I just rm'd it, but okay
< 1272804688 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fdulu@chippy> file 10.05.02 --> 10.05.02: UTF-8 Unicode English text, with very long lines
< 1272804698 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Proof if ever were one needed :P
< 1272804728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1272804737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, well I know I sent it as unicode
< 1272804744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so maybe file is broken
< 1272804754 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm
< 1272804766 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Naah, it was myndzi liens, not yours
< 1272804771 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*lines
< 1272804777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see
< 1272804832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw checking my own log files (rotated monthly) for freenode: http://sprunge.us/gYNb
< 1272804838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite interesting stats
< 1272804849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how it concluded it was C code...
< 1272804926 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do you use sort -n twice?
< 1272804945 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what ISO standard are you guys using?
< 1272804972 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :646 8859 10646?
< 1272804981 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4
< 1272804997 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: ?
< 1272805004 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the standard
< 1272805008 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh
< 1272805010 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Abbreviation of journal titles?
< 1272805018 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then whta the hell is all theis stuff
< 1272805036 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evidently nonstandardly abbreviated journal titles.
< 1272805047 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1272805071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Phantom_Hoover> Why do you use sort -n twice? <-- uniq -c in between
< 1272805073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is why
< 1272805080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course the first one could have been just sort
< 1272805083 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, romeone do me a favour, open up xfotset and took at rgstry
< 1272805083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without the -n
< 1272805087 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*someone
< 1272805094 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*xfontsel
< 1272805115 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, ISO standards are boring. ISO 2: Twist directions for yarns.
< 1272805123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh?
< 1272805136 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISO 6: Film speed.
< 1272805146 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Twist directions for yarns.?
< 1272805183 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_ said that he was using ISO standard 4, which prompted me to look it up.
< 1272805196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, and what is iso 4?
< 1272805214 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a standardisation of the abbreviation of journal titles.
< 1272805220 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISO morphic
< 1272805228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, and that is what alise_ used it for?
< 1272805242 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, he uses it as his character encoding.
< 1272805247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1272805249 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't ask.
< 1272805265 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISO 7: Something called pipe threads.
< 1272805278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, is that the official title of it?
< 1272805284 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISO 4?
< 1272805289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, iso 7
< 1272805308 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's a description of what it standardises.
< 1272805311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1272805334 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pipe threads seem to be something to do with plumbing.
< 1272805378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, how comes we never see that in Mario then? ;P
< 1272805399 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nintendo mustn't obey the standards.
< 1272805402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1272805439 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to stop looking at ISOs before I die of boredom.
< 1272805475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1272805487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, where is that list?
< 1272805510 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just typed "ISO N" into WP.
< 1272805514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1272805710 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume that there must be an ISO standard for the format of ISO standards.
< 1272805726 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1272805949 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.com/search?q=%22personal+pin+number%22 This saddens me.
< 1272806148 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1234567890
< 1272806184 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, "Personal" makes no sense in the context of PINs.
< 1272806215 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are hundreds of thousands of people with each PIN, assuming an even distribution.
< 1272806269 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION must revise
< 1272806272 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1272807313 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An unpublished dockumente.
< 1272808176 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.josbuivenga.demon.nl/calluna.html goddamnit i want this font!
< 1272808318 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The regular is absolutely free.
< 1272808324 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quote un'quote
< 1272808384 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the regular, yes, but i have this crazy tendency to use bold and italic in my text.
< 1272808412 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: In a font? Why should that matter?
< 1272808428 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1272808428 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not sure you understand.
< 1272808431 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not like arial becomes arial thick when you use bold
< 1272808439 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you mean, why should that matter?
< 1272808445 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's all in one font
< 1272808449 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you saying that the computer can automatically italicise and embolden text?
< 1272808456 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that it does this for existing fonts?
< 1272808474 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato: The "regular being absolutely free" means a font with only non-bold, non-italic glyphs: i.e. regular glyphs.
< 1272808476 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I am
< 1272808489 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato: Then you are a fool who knows nothing of typography.
< 1272808494 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Italic IS NOT the same thing as slanted.
< 1272808499 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Computers can slant; the result is hideously inappropriate for italic text.
< 1272808509 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Italics are almost always separate glyph-sets.
< 1272808514 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The same goes for bold.
< 1272808524 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I, for instance, know that my current font (terminus) only har once set of glyphs - regular. But, *this* is bold nonetheless
< 1272808551 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Terminus, sure, a monospaced font.
< 1272808554 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you really think that has any bearing on good typography?
< 1272808569 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I didn't care about the quality, readability and beauty of my text... I wouldn't care what typeface I was using.
< 1272808584 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: I dont follow
< 1272808597 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where, exactly, do you stop following?
< 1272808606 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, I do not know "anything about typography"
< 1272808614 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where, exactly, do you stop following?
< 1272808649 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you saying that computer glyph alteration is only avaliable for monospace fonls?
< 1272808652 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*t
< 1272808657 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato: OK; do you not understand the difference between italic type and slanted type?
< 1272808663 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oblique_type Look at the two examples here.
< 1272808670 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Italic" denotes something /very/ different from slanted type.
< 1272808685 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With monospaced fonts, it doesn't really matter: they have basically no fidelity or typographical quality anyway, at least old-school ones.
< 1272808700 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if we're talking actual, readable, modern type: slanting is not /nearly/ the same thing as italics, and it is hideous.
< 1272808725 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: If you insnit. Dina, for instance, is yet another counter-example
< 1272808750 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you perhaps confusing amateur monospaced fonts with actual proportional typefaces?
< 1272808755 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, that have things like "kerning".
< 1272808774 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure. What is that?
< 1272808817 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, here is the sign that discussing typography with you probably requires a whole background introduction first. :)
< 1272808837 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Safe to say that all the serif fonts, and some of the sans-serif fonts, you use on your computer, definitely have italic versions.
< 1272808840 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, I imagine it does
< 1272808844 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because italic type doesn't even have to be particularly slanty.
< 1272808854 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok
< 1272808865 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Simply not the same thing: and was never believed to be so, before Windows and the like came along and fudged the fact that they didn't have proper italic glyphs in their word processor by automatically slanting.
< 1272808925 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, right
< 1272809038 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway I guess a lot of people read really ugly aliased Arial on their Windows XP machines with their displays set to the wrong resolution...
< 1272809038 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's not really something "most people" would notice.
< 1272809038 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But once you've noticed it once you never stop.
< 1272809038 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now how much does Calluna cost... :-)
< 1272809060 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1272809177 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$119.
< 1272809181 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I shall start saving up.
< 1272809183 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1272809190 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272809890 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Disregard that I
< 1272810998 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: underflow
< 1272811068 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom_H@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272811084 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, does anyone here have much experience with graphicsy things?
< 1272811105 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried #ubuntu but it was as helpful as a bag of ferrets.
< 1272811133 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds very helpful.
< 1272811140 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, bags of ferrets are retarded in a cute sort of way.
< 1272811144 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#ubuntu is just retarded.
< 1272811155 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, ferrets occasionally acknowledge your existence
< 1272811165 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What *can't* you do with a bag of ferrets?
< 1272811180 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...hm.
< 1272811181 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fix your computer.
< 1272811182 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1272811184 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing, actually.
< 1272811193 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You could replace your computer with a bag of ferrets.
< 1272811203 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I want a bag of ferrets.
< 1272811216 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bags of ferrets can't do interesting things like browse the internet.
< 1272811219 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got kicked out of (IRCnet's) #linux.fi for associating with "the wrong sort of people".
< 1272811239 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it is a channel like that.
< 1272811250 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What sort of people would that be?
< 1272811266 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, EFnet/IRCnet + Finnish people; most hostile environment conceivable?
< 1272811268 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The wrong one.
< 1272811269 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some years earlier I had gotten kicked out of there for being too quiet.
< 1272811273 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes they can.
< 1272811279 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They can browse all the portions of the internet contained within a bag of ferrets.
< 1272811298 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is #esoteric in them?
< 1272811301 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The sort of people who don't like newcomers to their precious channel.
< 1272811317 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought Finns disliked conversation.
< 1272811322 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes, they may know certain things about esoteric programming language.
< 1272811334 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly things that involve looking at you blankly.
< 1272811346 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you meant the wrong people. Those were people associatd with an organization of sorts.
< 1272811347 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought they have a non-Indo-European language. The Finns. Not the ferrets.
< 1272811368 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though ferrets don't have an Indo-European language either.
< 1272811375 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I can't vouch for the Finns, but the ferrets certainly do.
< 1272811398 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You can say cult, we won't judge. :P
< 1272811404 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or ULTIMAT WAREZ SKENE GRUUP.)
< 1272811437 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More culty than warezy, but perhaps a bit quirky.
< 1272811485 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I REQUIRE ELABORATION
< 1272811485 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was it Kibology
< 1272811504 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or Last Thursdayism?
< 1272811506 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was a Finnish thing, not so explicable or known.
< 1272811527 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't suppose Deewiant has been in any way involved with the "irtie" folks? (It's a small country, but maybe not quite *that* small.)
< 1272811582 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finland is weird.
< 1272811603 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never heard of "irtie"
< 1272811624 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Imam Irtie?
< 1272811754 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/qlrHy.jpg
< 1272811769 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: Courtesy of Google Translate: http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=fi&tl=en&u=http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irti_El%25C3%25A4m%25C3%25A4st%25C3%25A4&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&usg=ALkJrhjvvQORGLzfbaRDVUUWmIh_WJZcOQ
< 1272811776 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Irti elĂ¤mĂ¤stĂ¤, I mean.
< 1272811785 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Translating Finnish; this sounds fun.
< 1272811789 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in hellish.
< 1272811796 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looked pretty hilarious.
< 1272811813 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't know of that either, I don't think.
< 1272811822 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't a member or anything, I just knew too many people involved.
< 1272811823 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to write a really simple raycasterish thing.
< 1272811832 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rationalwiki.com/wiki/images/e/e8/WatermelonCat.jpg
< 1272811846 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Okay; it was a long shot, anyway.
< 1272811868 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So what *is* it?
< 1272811900 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to load the translated page
< 1272811947 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.wikihow.com/Make-a-Ferret-Sleeping-Bag
< 1272812019 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, wrong way round.
< 1272812024 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't find anything official in English. Just a vaguely computer/nerdery-related association.
< 1272812068 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION needs to go now, so shall crash his GPU again for data-acquisitory purposes.
< 1272812169 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1272812317 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fearless.
< 1272812405 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never knew OpenOffice could edit equations.
< 1272812480 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't there an equation editor in MS Office too?
< 1272812560 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to recall one from years past; and they have to try to include all Office features, after all.
< 1272812712 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; it's better than OpenOffice's too :P
< 1272813187 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, is it just me or is the Pentium III way better than the P4 in every way?
< 1272813351 0 :hiato!~fdulu@41-132-16-47.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272813369 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1272813513 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It must be just you; 3 < 4.
< 1272813536 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lulz
< 1272814022 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be nice to have some sort of symbolic-numeric library for C, like so: http://pastie.org/942428.txt?key=jkk2tre903q6vbcuclnjw
< 1272814029 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Ginac is basically that for C++, but still.
< 1272814035 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course ginac benefits from operator overloading.
< 1272814468 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, it would be Handy with a capital Y.
< 1272814525 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if there's some Utterly Horrible Trick you could use to make x+y work.
< 1272814537 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps define X and Y, as the existing variables, as something ending in a quote mark, so it ends up looking like
< 1272814544 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :build(X, " + ", Y
< 1272814546 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something
< 1272815457 0 :hiato!~fdulu@41-132-16-47.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272815647 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1272815652 0 :adam_d!~Adam@cpc2-acto6-0-0-cust48.brnt.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272815921 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still up?
< 1272815967 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: ^
< 1272816018 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1272816019 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi!
< 1272816090 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whooo.
< 1272816103 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is up earlier than would be liked
< 1272816422 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: Dear God I gave you a stupid answer last night regarding "time".
< 1272816432 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes :|
< 1272816439 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of those times were 24 hour, some were 12 hour.
< 1272816454 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well /that/ explain the huge disrepancy that I POINTED OUT...
< 1272816461 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_<
< 1272816520 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:08 UTC+12, 15:08 Chamorro, 02:08 Atlantic, 01:08 Eastern, 00:08 Central, 23:08 Mountain, 22:08 Pacific, 21:08 Alaska, 20:08 Hawaii-Aleutian, 19:08 Samon, 17:08 UTC-12.
< 1272816526 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was late.
< 1272816557 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And those first two times are wrong. GAH.
< 1272816576 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not to mention several hours ago.
< 1272816588 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... Should get some coffee.
< 1272816592 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, shouldn't UTC+12 == UTC-12 always be the case when you don't include the date?
< 1272816600 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1272816612 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. Yeah.
< 1272816617 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should get some coffee.
< 1272816632 0 :hiato!~fdulu@41-132-16-47.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272816648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, so if the first two are wrong then the last one must be wrong too
< 1272816649 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First coffee, now tea
< 1272816653 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you fucking bastard!
< 1272816665 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right that is /it/
< 1272816669 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know what i am going to do
< 1272816719 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EH EH
< 1272816721 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EH PIKHQ
< 1272816743 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Go downstairs?
< 1272816812 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... shut up
< 1272816901 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway
< 1272816904 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have an urge to either
< 1272816913 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a) write up yet another basic architecture for a non-sucky os, or
< 1272816919 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(b) spec a totally solid state machine
< 1272816927 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the former is better, the latter is easier and short term funner
< 1272816932 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess which i'll end up doing, probably.
< 1272817112 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spqrtuv
< 1272818135 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1272818455 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@129.241.210.68 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272819400 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom_H@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272819432 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does this channel actually have any ops?
< 1272819438 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure
< 1272819446 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me, fizzie and lament
< 1272819461 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i'm pretty new and incompetent at it
< 1272819504 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie is the uberop
< 1272819539 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not the channel founder, that is andreou who no one has seen for years
< 1272819556 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Founders are indeed mystical creatures.
< 1272819584 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can one found a channel in the first place, other than by being the first to join it?
< 1272819585 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders if there's a reference there he doesn't get
< 1272819600 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wishes he was that subtle
< 1272819602 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :freenode has a channel registration system
< 1272819622 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so andreou was presumably the one to register it
< 1272819638 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chanserv.
< 1272819641 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah.
< 1272819649 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ChanServ handles channels, like NickServ handles nicks
< 1272819716 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose that someone must have made a language that uses chess notation.
< 1272819733 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes that Phantom_Hoover hasn't registered his nick
< 1272819766 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just haven't bothered to identify. Hold on...
< 1272819767 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or well you did but you aren't logged in
< 1272819822 0 :bsmntbombdood!~gavin@174-16-203-114.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272819824 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION isn't so good with those bots - it's like they duplicate functionality that _should_ have been in the server itself if things were logical
< 1272819839 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i used /whois to check your nick first, since that's the server command
< 1272819931 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i have this vague idea that bans should probably go through chanserv, rather than using my clients /kickban command which is easier
< 1272819965 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which may be the main thing i need to learn to be an efficient op
< 1272819992 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh i haven't yet had a serious _use_ for my op powers :D
< 1272820009 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*client's
< 1272820022 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :opping #esoteric is a dull job.
< 1272820027 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing needs to be done most days.
< 1272820074 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course /kickban is probably sufficient for less persistent spammers
< 1272820085 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and trolls
< 1272820153 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This channel has trolls?
< 1272820159 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has happened
< 1272820165 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're not very persistent
< 1272820167 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What did they troll over?
< 1272820178 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing, mostly
< 1272820185 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most even /admit/ to trolling
< 1272820187 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok there was one banned the other month
< 1272820191 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: two
< 1272820194 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :god
< 1272820195 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one got unbanned (unfortunately)
< 1272820200 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but one was unbanne... right
< 1272820203 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but he's been silent since so... sssh
< 1272820206 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im reading the jargon file's section on hacker writing style
< 1272820211 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its nothing but me in there D:
< 1272820223 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: our channel is simply too boring to troll :D
< 1272820223 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually more :D than anything
< 1272820237 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: ignore the jargon file
< 1272820240 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're too reasonable or something
< 1272820247 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hush your face alise_ >|
< 1272820255 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esr is just a masturbatory, egotistical blowhard who likes putting his own coinages in there and making ludicrous assertions like most hackers are conservatives.
< 1272820271 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously. if there is one thing every sane or insane person must do, it is to IGNORE ESR.
< 1272820286 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, ESR. Nothing like a nice dose of crazy.
< 1272820299 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, he _did_ maintain c-intercal for a while
< 1272820305 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he /wrote/ c-intercal
< 1272820306 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :case in point
< 1272820307 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though he ceased to be amusing when he blamed Turing for what happened to him.
< 1272820313 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet augur would like his article about literally channeling a sex goddess when he was a teenager (IIRC)
< 1272820317 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it was quite serious)
< 1272820322 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Wait, what?
< 1272820331 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Wow.
< 1272820335 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: where's it say anything about conservativism
< 1272820338 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blaming... Turing... for being gay...
< 1272820352 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: lemme find it for you
< 1272820352 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=1046#comment-236592
< 1272820369 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently everyone is more pathetic than him.
< 1272820374 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh see, im reading the old version then, i guess
< 1272820382 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to find it
< 1272820386 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.outpost9.com/reference/jargon/jargon_59.html#SEC66
< 1272820393 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: basically it states that blah blah before 9/11 or something
< 1272820395 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then yo conservatives man
< 1272820417 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Libertarians, I thought.
< 1272820432 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's a gun nut, too.
< 1272820491 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so who's ESR now?
< 1272820501 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eric S Ramond.
< 1272820509 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/Ramond/Raymond..
< 1272820515 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dont know him
< 1272820519 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dont know if i care
< 1272820533 0 :alise__!~alise@212.183.140.52 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272820538 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, he's the right-wing version of Stallman. In very loose terms.
< 1272820541 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise_> also he put "gandhicon" in there after he was the only person to say it, ever.
< 1272820544 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise_> plus, he's:
< 1272820546 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise_> - pro-Iraq war
< 1272820546 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise_> - pro-Israel's actions
< 1272820548 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise_> - pro-guns guns & MOAR GUNZ
< 1272820550 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise_> - I could go on...
< 1272820552 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise_> basically take anything he says with a grain of shit. he sucks at technology too.
< 1272820555 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise_> hey, he wrote fetchmail though!
< 1272820558 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise_> even more annoying is that the original jargon file was /wonderful/
< 1272820560 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise_> and esr came along and shat on it
< 1272820561 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: whats a guns gun
< 1272820562 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Um, ESR is who maintains the Jargon File now.
< 1272820564 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I hesitate to call it that as IMO he had no right whatsoever to mangle the original.
< 1272820572 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pro-{guns guns & MOAR GUNZ}
< 1272820579 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's notable for maintaining the Jargon file poorly, being right wing, and working on not a hell of a lot of software.
< 1272820581 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats a guns gun
< 1272820590 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing
< 1272820594 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, i dont care about the current jargon file. i was reading the original. :P
< 1272820594 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some Emacs, C-Intercal, and fetchmail.
< 1272820600 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or some older version of it
< 1272820603 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: FREEDOM IN METAL FORM.
< 1272820605 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: o rly.
< 1272820607 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link
< 1272820614 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Well, he has a few things in the original.
< 1272820615 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.outpost9.com/reference/jargon/jargon_toc.html
< 1272820615 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1272820634 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :outpost9; that domain reminds me of something...
< 1272820638 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- basically everything nice in the jargon file is in the old versions,
< 1272820641 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and everything esr added is shit
< 1272820643 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there's no reason to use his at all
< 1272820649 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though, so did pretty much everyone who was around the old jargon file.
< 1272820659 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, that outpost9 is not loading for me now
< 1272820664 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, esr even removed terms!
< 1272820667 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just because they were not from HIS sector of the culture, UNIX
< 1272820675 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to "reflect the modern world" yeah right
< 1272820676 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1272820708 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So are there still large non-UNIX cultures?
< 1272820709 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: you fail
< 1272820713 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :new hacker's dictionary is esr publication
< 1272820719 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really
< 1272820724 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1272820732 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently that's pre- the amendment to that article, though
< 1272820736 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe it was another one, can't remember.
< 1272820741 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then
< 1272820743 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: The Hacker's Dictionary is the non-esr version
< 1272820794 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: http://www.dourish.com/goodies/jargon.html here's the original, sloppily HTML-formatted
< 1272820805 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay
< 1272820857 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey wait i just realised i have monday off!!!
< 1272820868 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From what?
< 1272820872 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the crazy house.
< 1272820879 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the loony bin!
< 1272820893 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what they said.
< 1272820908 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait wait wait
< 1272820911 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a house or a bin
< 1272820913 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is important
< 1272820914 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can sleep!
< 1272820920 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets not be wishy washy with our words here
< 1272820920 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bin... formed into a house!
< 1272820920 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: It's a binhouse.
< 1272820921 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is 3rd of may a british holiday?
< 1272820924 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AHA
< 1272820924 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Noooo I don't want to
< 1272820927 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: bank holiday monday
< 1272820927 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a binhouse
< 1272820928 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sleep is for the weak!
< 1272820937 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I will sleep early tonight, you see
< 1272820944 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: remind me, do you like Doctor Who or not?
< 1272820951 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: He's British.
< 1272820953 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus, accounting for ultra-tiredness but still getting to bed early, will wake up at an OK time tomorrow
< 1272820953 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: yes
< 1272820957 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :britain, where the banks get their own holidays
< 1272820959 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i haven't seen the latest ones of the new seriezzz
< 1272820961 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: quite
< 1272820964 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: And the US.
< 1272820968 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, I can spoil it.
< 1272820971 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: thinkgeek sells 10th and 11th doctor sonic screwdrivers.
< 1272820983 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want laser.
< 1272820986 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who the heck would get sonic?
< 1272820990 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::|
< 1272821009 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...also, thanks but no thanks. Unless it actually features the supernatural powers of the original.
< 1272821015 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about 9th?
< 1272821019 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I bought everything cool from ThinkGeek, I'd have less than no money.
< 1272821021 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're different!
< 1272821027 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: WAY TOO CAMP FOR HIS OWN GOOD.
< 1272821038 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ecclestone?
< 1272821045 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He was all right.
< 1272821059 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ehhhhhh I liked him at the time but Tennant was just so much better
< 1272821060 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno if 9th doctor had a different screwdriver than 10
< 1272821076 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He did, I think.
< 1272821107 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't notice them changing.
< 1272821110 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're all a bit screwy *runs away*
< 1272821116 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't even know they changed, until now.
< 1272821118 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: 11's is very different
< 1272821126 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah I've only seen two eps of 11
< 1272821136 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are only 4 so far.
< 1272821142 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iPlayer!
< 1272821156 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.thinkgeek.com/geektoys/cubegoodies/8cff/
< 1272821158 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats 10's
< 1272821164 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.thinkgeek.com/geektoys/collectibles/d7d8/
< 1272821165 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's 11'
< 1272821166 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s
< 1272821177 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well, I'd not iPlayer when I could get them in HD for free.
< 1272821187 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two, I sort of have other priorities; though I see you don't know of them.
< 1272821196 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, they rebuilt 10's after they noticed that the merchandise was better than the prop.
< 1272821244 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure I like 11's.
< 1272821259 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's got springy vanes!
< 1272821270 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Springy vanes make everything better!
< 1272821422 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`define vane
< 1272821431 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need to find a place to get nitrous
< 1272821436 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RECURSION n. See RECURSION, TAIL RECURSION.
< 1272821440 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Amusingly, RECURSION is the tail recursion here.
< 1272821449 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* weathervane: mechanical device attached to an elevated structure; rotates freely to show the direction of the wind \      * a fin attached to the tail of an arrow, bomb or missile in order to stabilize or guide it \      * blade: flat surface that rotates and pushes against air or water
< 1272821451 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as TAIL RECURSION is trivially dead code, it can be eliminated
< 1272821472 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: You should ask #esoteric!
< 1272821479 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually "," is in the tail position
< 1272821480 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esoteric, here can i find nitrous!
< 1272821488 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, not here.
< 1272821505 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: also, just go to the dentist a lot
< 1272821519 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dentists dont use nitrous here, afaik
< 1272821523 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Move!
< 1272821526 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: not necessarily true in the State monad
< 1272821530 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, you know, stop being a wimp and get some HEROIN FUCK YEAH
< 1272821545 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you're not necessarily true in the state monad nyah
< 1272821551 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or other monads where the last command might actually be accessed first
< 1272821563 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you could get nitrous in whipped cream squirty things.
< 1272821619 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bitrot: a language where every instruction (also data; same thing) has an associated real F (freshness) that approaches 0 as time goes on
< 1272821623 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this makes the instruction "less effective"
< 1272821632 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to refresh instructions&data by several means.
< 1272821646 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Control.Monad.State; main = print $ execState loop undefined where loop = loop >> put 5
< 1272821657 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5
< 1272821670 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is just like magic.
< 1272821708 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WATERBOTTLE SOCCER n. A deadly sport practiced mainly by Sussman's graduate students. It, along with chair bowling, is the most evident manifestation of the "locker room atmosphere" said to reign in that sphere. (Sussman doesn't approve.) [As of 11/82, it's reported that the sport has given way to a new game called "disc-boot", and Sussman even participates occasionally.]
< 1272821709 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How did we get onto Haskell?
< 1272821715 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember that.
< 1272821719 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: That's the question underlying everything, really.
< 1272821738 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WIN [from MIT jargon] 1. v. To succeed. A program wins if no unexpected conditions arise. 2. BIG WIN: n. Serendipity. Emphatic forms: MOBY WIN, SUPER WIN, HYPER-WIN (often used interjectively as a reply). For some reason SUITABLE WIN is also common at MIT, usually in reference to a satisfactory solution to a problem. See LOSE.
< 1272821743 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, so *that's* what the universe is written in.
< 1272821745 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i wanted to demonstrate that in haskell, loop = do loop; whatever does _not_ always mean whatever is dead code
< 1272821746 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Them MITers were at it much before you interwebfangled guys.
< 1272821876 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Oh, the State monad.
< 1272821895 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How very lazy it is.
< 1272821897 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1272821912 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: as an anarchist, I strongly oppose the use of the State monad.
< 1272821927 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Hah.
< 1272821937 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about the Unstate monad?
< 1272821948 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well thats ok
< 1272821953 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: do anarchists support Readers?
< 1272821961 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats a reader? D:
< 1272821966 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reader's Digest
< 1272821971 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we clearly need a digest function on Readers
< 1272821977 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that, say, takes a bunch of reads and condenses them.
< 1272821987 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Control.Monad.Reader; main = print $ runReader loop where loop = loop >> return 5
< 1272821993 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: here, record of esr's fucking up the jargon file -- including the pertinent political change -- http://pastie.org/942533.txt?key=s0zg82w7irl4owgr068aq
< 1272821994 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit
< 1272821998 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from http://www.ntk.net/2003/06/06/
< 1272822001 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right
< 1272822008 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Control.Monad.Reader; main = print $ runReader loop undefined where loop = loop >> return 5
< 1272822011 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5
< 1272822013 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders when alise__ will start hallucinating
< 1272822025 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, you're turning into a penguin. Stop it.
< 1272822052 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Ford
< 1272822060 0 :Ford!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah, this nick is registered
< 1272822063 0 :Ford!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Sgeo
< 1272822087 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, the claim that hackers range from "moderate to neoconservative"...
< 1272822087 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders when he will start hallucinating
< 1272822102 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think ESR is the *only* neoconservative hacker.
< 1272822136 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought he was a libertarian.
< 1272822141 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats this mention of kuro5hin
< 1272822149 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And hacker politics are anything but moderate.
< 1272822152 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neoconservatism - liberalism - anarchism - he thinks they are all the same
< 1272822160 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :errr
< 1272822161 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: WHAT
< 1272822164 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So much fail.
< 1272822164 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neoconservatism - libertarianism - anarchism - he thinks they are all the same
< 1272822168 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So. Much. Fail.
< 1272822169 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/slight/ gaffe there
< 1272822174 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(he claims to simultaneouslybe a lib & an anarchist)
< 1272822177 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still much fail.
< 1272822179 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*simultaneously be
< 1272822185 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i dunno about neo- conservatism
< 1272822188 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone?
< 1272822193 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm sure there is some X for X-conservatism for which that holds
< 1272822198 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: what do you mean this mention of kuro5hin
< 1272822206 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the link mentions kuro5hin
< 1272822207 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why
< 1272822209 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kuro5hin guys tend to lean left, you might say ...
< 1272822211 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: Y'know the modern Republican party?
< 1272822213 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also be batshit insane on average
< 1272822214 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could also do it with a Writer monad, but then i'd need a better Monoid than lists
< 1272822218 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__, The Metamorphosis of Prime Intellect, time?
< 1272822219 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: why no i don't what is this thing
< 1272822219 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok.
< 1272822222 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is the face of neoconservativism.
< 1272822229 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It is on kuro5hin; what of it?
< 1272822231 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I know.
< 1272822232 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: They are fucking crazy.
< 1272822241 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You do not say.
< 1272822253 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__, the mention of kuro5hin reminded me of it, and that you wanted to read it at some point
< 1272822261 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not when I'm sleep-deprived.
< 1272822289 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders which computer to unpack, and whether to run Ubuntu 10.04, some form of BSD, OS X, or other on it
< 1272822331 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I can ever get that E-SNUSP interpreter finished, there might actually be an esoteric one.
< 1272822394 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Control.Monad.Writer; import Data.Monoid; main = print . head . getDual $ execWriter loop where loop = loop >> tell (Dual "hi")
< 1272822397 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'h'
< 1272822414 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help
< 1272822414 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help <command>.
< 1272822434 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Control.Monad.Writer; import Data.Monoid; main = print . head . getDual $ execWriter loop where loop = loop >> tell (Dual ["hi"])
< 1272822437 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"hi"
< 1272822441 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help languages
< 1272822442 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh.
< 1272822459 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!unlambda i
< 1272822468 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's pretty much a nop
< 1272822472 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!lazyk i
< 1272822473 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Couldn't fork sub-program.
< 1272822478 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why?
< 1272822486 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Talking to a bot...
< 1272822488 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alas, not all the old interpreters are properly installed
< 1272822503 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i think)
< 1272822506 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!lazyk
< 1272822507 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Couldn't fork sub-program.
< 1272822531 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the error message it gives for that, i think
< 1272822547 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!unlamba ``.h.ii
< 1272822553 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!unlambda ``.h.ii
< 1272822553 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1272822590 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Talking to a bot is the sign of a well-adjusted mind.
< 1272822594 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wouldn't you agree, fungot?
< 1272822594 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: even if it were
< 1272822611 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It fungot a bot?
< 1272822611 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: since the pre-scheme value's type is inferred from that.
< 1272822619 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it a bot.
< 1272822620 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^source
< 1272822620 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98
< 1272822620 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: I agree.
< 1272822621 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: oh, no, i use the proposals interface). it's also the biggest and best game i had...
< 1272822662 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (Hello there!)S
< 1272822662 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello there!
< 1272822676 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot is the best befunge-98 bot ever; also the only
< 1272822677 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: i guess it's a bit... terse?
< 1272822717 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :,,, :D
< 1272822719 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*...
< 1272822813 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Calculon this language is not mathematical at all
< 1272822841 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's almost as good as that proposal for Brainfuck II.
< 1272822845 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I liked that.
< 1272822869 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: sheesh don't you know numbers == math
< 1272822889 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW
< 1272822894 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially a mutable stack of numbers
< 1272822932 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: oh my god do you still have the q[uick]basic stuff
< 1272822967 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly somewhere.
< 1272822972 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272822979 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which of the stuff?
< 1272822989 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, the ultra-illegal QuickBasic ware-ess.
< 1272822991 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272823006 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops, coppro won't be happy with me infringing copyright! :P
< 1272823009 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should they add a code like this in anarchy golf service?  http://pastebin.com/pVFjhRBq
< 1272823045 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: die, heathen!
< 1272823061 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it even correct? I don't know much about Ruby programming
< 1272823068 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a party for that sort of thing.
< 1272823080 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what's it meant to do?
< 1272823129 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't Ruby use sigils?
< 1272823135 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to add "inputfix" field in the submit form, and then you can fix the input sent to the program, in case the input is broken
< 1272823202 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I don't know.
< 1272823219 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC it does, and I don't see a single sigil in that paste
< 1272823267 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It uses some sigils but that paste doesn't need any
< 1272823270 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But this program doesn't have a lot of sigils either:  http://github.com/shinh/ags/blob/master/fe/fcgi/submit.rb
< 1272824020 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Supper and cricket
< 1272824151 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The DOS cursor blinks Too Fast Aiee.
< 1272824166 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: ruby uses sigils for some things
< 1272824171 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@foo is instance var, @@foo is class var
< 1272824173 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$foo is global
< 1272824173 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's it
< 1272824175 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1272824185 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also @foo is mostly only used for assignment of private vars
< 1272824191 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you usually define accessors so "foo" and "self.foo =" work
< 1272824208 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in other news, fuck MPEG-LA
< 1272824351 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: If the DOS cursor blinks too fast I think it is the video card (or BIOS) which blinks it, not DOS itself? (I wonder if it is possible to slow down the video card (and still have it work correctly)) (Also, I think it blinks OK speed, it is not too fast)
< 1272824369 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :things should be "amusing" come 2015
< 1272824373 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272824381 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Why?
< 1272824392 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: That's when the free license expires
< 1272824402 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for H.264)
< 1272824414 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And then there is MegaZeux, which just emulates the cursor (and in PZX versions, blinking text as well))
< 1272824414 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless MPEG-LA extends it again, then everyone using H.264 on the Internet for any purpose will be liable to them
< 1272824463 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I think cursors shouldn't blink at all.
< 1272824466 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pointless distraction.
< 1272824468 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523
< 1272824477 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, nethack looks bad with blinking cursors
< 1272824477 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, it's DOSBox, so...
< 1272824480 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No idea howto stop it blinking.
< 1272824480 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi alise__
< 1272824492 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blink blink blink blink look at me I am where you are typing; you are too dumb-fuck retarded to find me otherwise.
< 1272824492 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I don't mind NetHack with blinking cursors
< 1272824494 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The MPEG-LA can go to hell, as can everyone backing them.
< 1272824500 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1272824502 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope you don't have epilepblink blink blink blink
< 1272824516 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the H.64 licence isn't free for all purposes
< 1272824520 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also: Google, could you, like, *release* VP-8?
< 1272824525 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Then use Theora for videos if you can't use H.264. Also, wouldn't the patent expire one day
< 1272824527 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reenters the blissful harmony that is BASIC.
< 1272824529 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Only free for streaming.
< 1272824532 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1272824536 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not *encoding* or *decoding*.
< 1272824537 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theora, alas, has piss-poor quality compared to H.264.
< 1272824543 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: oh, encoding needs a licence too?
< 1272824547 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1272824547 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thankfully, most of the time you'd be illegally obtaining your H.264s too
< 1272824550 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it hardly matters :)))
< 1272824555 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: you mean, less quality per byte
< 1272824557 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: Which version of BASIC? There is a lot
< 1272824558 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x264 is very illegal.
< 1272824560 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yeah. I didn't say it was. I merely said that in 2015, all uses become un-free
< 1272824565 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theora can be just as high quality, it just takes around twice the space
< 1272824568 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, no
< 1272824577 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe if you shot up the quality lots and lots
< 1272824580 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(aren't they both lossless in the limit?)
< 1272824581 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The dosbox blinker is a bit overkill, though; I don't recall my real DOS-running computers blinking quite so hard.
< 1272824581 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only use it because, well: I'm already encoding deCSS'd DVDs. It's not like I can break the law *more*.
< 1272824584 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1272824594 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but theora loses to h.264 pretty much no matter what
< 1272824594 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x264 is amazing
< 1272824597 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any case, legality does depend on jurisdiction
< 1272824606 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, for sure Theora can be improved in the future, if someone can improve it more
< 1272824613 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x264 is the best h.264 encoder, IIRC.
< 1272824614 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're outside the US, you're about 10000000x safer than inside
< 1272824616 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dark Shikari is da man
< 1272824619 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yes
< 1272824622 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: It isn't improved now though
< 1272824625 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some of us want high-quality video :)
< 1272824627 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: It will probably just be superceded by VP-8.
< 1272824647 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :H.264 is perfectly fine in the UK, though, isn't it?
< 1272824653 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which Google *should* be releasing for free usage in $soon.
< 1272824653 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably
< 1272824654 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: Yes. It isn't improved now. However in my opinion it is sufficient for most purposes
< 1272824654 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the only way to enforce the licences is software patents?
< 1272824664 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, it's a patent license.
< 1272824665 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Some of us have good eyesight :-)
< 1272824672 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the H.264 algorithm is opened source in the Microsoft sense, after all
< 1272824677 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meaning x264 is just fine in the UK.
< 1272824681 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : DEFtype If BASICA encounters a variable without an explicit type (indicated by !, #, &, $, or %), it uses the default type set by the most recent DEFtype statement. For example, the type of the variable IFLAG changes from integer to single precision in the following BASICA code fragment:
< 1272824681 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 DEFINT I 20 PRINT IFLAG 30 DEFSNG I 40 GOTO 20
< 1272824683 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a horrible feature
< 1272824694 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it isn't in qbasico
< 1272824695 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*qbasic
< 1272824696 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :phew :P
< 1272824697 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: qbasic does that too
< 1272824701 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Absolutely; if there are no software patents then there is no incentive to accept the license terms
< 1272824701 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope
< 1272824701 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1272824706 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't change a var's type after it's defined
< 1272824706 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DEFINT i and all variables starting with i become integers
< 1272824708 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :straight from http://zem.fi/~fis/qbu.html
< 1272824715 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is the most beautifully-typeset QBasic manual, ever)
< 1272824715 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, yep, you have to do it before the first use of the variable
< 1272824720 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Yeah, I prefer getting very good quality and low space on my already-illegal DVD rips. :)
< 1272824722 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :existing licenses would possibly still be enforceable
< 1272824723 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: do you have one for QuickBasic, I  wonder?
< 1272824728 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I missed that BASICA could cast variables on the fly
< 1272824733 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They stole that feature from FORTRAN, I think.
< 1272824736 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In QBASIC it does that when the program is parsed at first instead, but other than that is the same. And I do use DEFINT in QBASIC sometimes
< 1272824740 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(by the way, does it cast it as reinterpret_cast, or as static_cast?)
< 1272824743 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But usually DEFINT A-Z
< 1272824759 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: why don't you use trailing sigils instead?
< 1272824763 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, a%
< 1272824767 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMPLICIT CHARACTER(C) -- and then everything that starts with C is a character.
< 1272824778 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: wait, you own DVDs?
< 1272824778 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why?
< 1272824785 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: doesn't FORTRAN have some implicits set up by default?
< 1272824787 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: I'm given them.
< 1272824795 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :â”‚ \\ Integer division symbol â”‚ â”‚ (reserved for â”‚ â”‚ (backslash) â”‚ â”‚ compatibility with other â”‚
< 1272824799 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Double escape error, fizzie?
< 1272824799 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, in fact I only use DEFtype when it is A-Z otherwise I do use trailing sigils
< 1272824802 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, I think I, J for integers might have been defaults.
< 1272824811 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or using AS (depending on the circumstance)
< 1272824812 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I *also* will check out DVDs from the dorm's front desk and rip them, and borrow DVDs from people for the sole purpose of renting them.
< 1272824820 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm.
< 1272824821 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ripping.
< 1272824832 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun fact, http://zem.fi/~fis/qbu.html is better documentation than the entirety of Ruby's :P
< 1272824843 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything you need to know, right there, 100% honest
< 1272824867 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: No, I don't have the QuickBasic manuals; the scripts I were using for generating those HTML versions need the original .hlp file sources, and the Microsoft tool I found for converting from binary to the source format barfed on the actual full quickbasic manual. It's in multiple files and all; might've been too much for it.
< 1272824867 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would seem I can *encode* 480p h.264 at 140fps on my current CPU.
< 1272824868 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want good quality video, perhaps you can make a video cartridge that can store uncompressed video, and can be seeked and recorded like a VCR
< 1272824871 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is pretty nice.
< 1272824888 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'll just use the QBasic manual + Google for QuickBasic, then.
< 1272824892 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: hmm, interesting idea
< 1272824895 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The main advantage is programs running faster, anyway.
< 1272824904 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: what about 1080p?
< 1272824905 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: The only reason we don't deal in losslessly compressed video is that it uses a *lot* of space.
< 1272824922 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably in the future, storage will be voluminous and fast enough that people won't bother compressing at all
< 1272824926 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it might take another 10 to 20 years
< 1272824928 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how anime encoders take it even further than, you know, just insanely high-quality x264; they literally play with quality settings for months.
< 1272824933 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had 20G for a lossless 1080p copy of Elephant's Dream.
< 1272824933 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it really matters, man!
< 1272824942 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i don't know, 1080p raw HD is /very/ big
< 1272824957 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: Which is kinda silly. After all, x264 is really, really good for anime.
< 1272824972 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; it's their main comparison material :-P
< 1272824975 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also. 1080p raw HD is pretty big. Lossless compression of that is somewhat less so.
< 1272824982 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tbqh 90% of anime is... really easy to encode.
< 1272824984 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes, I know that. I'm actually talking completely uncompressed video (not just compressed losslessly), so that it can be seeked and recorded over at exact points. And I know you don't need to deal with it. I mean if someone made a large enough video cartridge with these features, like a external hard drive but optimized for video
< 1272824986 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Being mostly blocks of colour.
< 1272824997 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lossless decompression is slow though
< 1272825010 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: I wonder if anime encodes better as H.264 or as an animated GIF?
< 1272825014 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm
< 1272825017 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the sort of thing that you'd expect the second would be good for
< 1272825018 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HuffYUV is "extremely fast".
< 1272825025 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: h.264.
< 1272825027 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GIF *sucks ass*.
< 1272825034 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20G sounds really pretty small. Even the digital movies they distribute to real theaters aren't lossless; according to one article, they encode each frame as a separate JPEG2000 file, and distribute by sending a few-hundred-gigabyte HD around.
< 1272825037 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yes, I can believe that GIF is really that bad
< 1272825041 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GIF is horrible
< 1272825044 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(MNG, if you want something more modern)
< 1272825047 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Elephant's Dream is 10 minutes long.
< 1272825054 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps you can make "Anime Codec"?
< 1272825059 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Oh, okay, then.
< 1272825069 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anime codec? Pointless.
< 1272825076 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Detailed images, and simple images. Handle them both,
< 1272825079 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*.
< 1272825085 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything that can handle the former will be trivial to extend to do the latter.
< 1272825088 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Job done.
< 1272825088 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AWESOME
< 1272825092 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was about 25G as individual PNGs.
< 1272825096 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did PNG reject APNG?
< 1272825104 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The glasses even give clarity to crosseyed 3d images on my computer screen
< 1272825105 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MNG exists?
< 1272825106 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess
< 1272825111 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(... I had just gotten a new terabyte drive, had Internet2 bandwidth, and was curious how much space it took up)
< 1272825134 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the highest-res QBasic mode with good colour I wonder
< 1272825147 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: How many colors do you want?
< 1272825148 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12 I think, that's 640x480
< 1272825150 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCREEN 8, it seems
< 1272825150 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Archive.org from a university campus is *really* nice. You're limited by the Ethernet bandwidth. :)
< 1272825151 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're the VGA video modes directly.
< 1272825153 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the higher resolutions were black-and-white IIRC
< 1272825164 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that gets you 80x25 text, 640x200 graphics, and 16-pallette colour
< 1272825167 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely you can get more than 16...
< 1272825178 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I just need SCREEN 11 or 12
< 1272825183 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12
< 1272825185 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: 12 gets you 80x30 text, 640x480 graphics, and 16-palette colour
< 1272825191 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's missing the more screwy VGA modes you can get by mogling the registers.
< 1272825199 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also my arrow keys are not working in qbasic WHY NOT
< 1272825204 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :â–  Assignment of up to 256K colors to 16 attributes
< 1272825209 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can have 80x30 or 80x60 text in mode 12
< 1272825210 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12 gets me 256k colours.
< 1272825215 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or are the 16 ones attributes
< 1272825215 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: only 16 at a time, though
< 1272825218 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1272825220 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's fine
< 1272825220 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: what was the method for the compression?
< 1272825224 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now why aren't my arrow keys working ffff
< 1272825232 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: also, somehow, nearly all those 256K colours were almost identical shades of green
< 1272825236 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC
< 1272825250 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe I was just getting the colour redefinition wrong
< 1272825252 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's six bits each for R, G, B; that shouldn't all be "shades of green".
< 1272825261 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, agreed
< 1272825262 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Ffmpeg HuffYUV.
< 1272825266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, know of any easy way to disassemble a file that is isn't an object file, just raw x86 instructions
< 1272825267 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it isn't all shades of green unless you are using the wrong range of numbers
< 1272825268 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SERIOUSLY WHY
< 1272825269 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY DOESN'T THIS WORK
< 1272825270 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With FLAC audio.
< 1272825273 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY DO ARROW KEYS OPEN THE MENU
< 1272825280 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The Windows program DEBUG.COM could do it
< 1272825282 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: neat
< 1272825288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, on linux I mean
< 1272825289 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Works quite well.
< 1272825293 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and x86_64
< 1272825301 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: blit it into memory, then load it in gdb
< 1272825306 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use the correct range of numbers for the colors, as according to the manual
< 1272825317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hah I was just about to say that there must be some simpler way than that
< 1272825318 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I think using the wrong range is likely
< 1272825319 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: objdump
< 1272825323 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can get a VGA card up to 360x480 with a 256 color-palette (out of those 256k), but qbasic "screen" command only does the standard modes, so that's limited to 320x200 for 256-color modes.
< 1272825325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, "unknown file format"
< 1272825330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, it wants ELF
< 1272825335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is raw instructions
< 1272825344 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ah, I always wondered how to get that mode as a child, I knew it existed
< 1272825351 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha
< 1272825353 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: nasm's "ndisasm" tool can take raw files.
< 1272825354 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just had to disable scancodes
< 1272825375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm that would mean intel syntax but meh. didn't have nasm around on that computer
< 1272825383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but useful to know in the future
< 1272825389 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: objdump -b binary -M i386
< 1272825392 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think.
< 1272825396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, x86_64 but...
< 1272825397 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... I had a funny idea
< 1272825403 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: If you still wonder, http://www.gamedev.net/reference/articles/article373.asp
< 1272825406 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(disclaimer: idea is not actually funny)
< 1272825411 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: Can you make QBASIC vector drawings? I should need a few created for my solitaire card program? (If not alise__, anyone else will also do)
< 1272825411 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :objdump -b binary -M x86-64
< 1272825435 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I'm no good at using DRAW.
< 1272825436 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know the commands for QBASIC vector drawings but I'm not as good at actual drawing the picture
< 1272825454 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi: stop making the logs detect as binary rather than text
< 1272825461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm objdump -b binary -M x86-64 -d file.dump  doesn't work, it gives me "objdump: Can't disassemble for architecture UNKNOWN"
< 1272825482 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, and objdump --help says x86-64 should work
< 1272825497 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You want maybe -m instead of -M?
< 1272825499 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have made a few vector drawings in QBASIC, such as for suits and numbers, already
< 1272825510 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that.
< 1272825514 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-m machine, -M options.
< 1272825520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, okay *now* it is getting cryptic: "objdump: Can't use supplied machine x86-64"
< 1272825528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no clue what that means
< 1272825534 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The shitty thing about QBasic: automatic syntax checking & reformatting just by moving off the line
< 1272825537 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't have picture for: Oscar Wilde, Baker, Spider, King
< 1272825543 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, why /would/ VGA have a completely undocumented high-resolution (for the time) 256-colour mode?
< 1272825573 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Maybe it's a job security feature so that good programmers can stay employed?
< 1272825574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, any idea about that?
< 1272825579 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: You should be able to turn off the error message by a menu.
< 1272825589 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I don't even see how that would help with job security
< 1272825592 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can't turn off the reformatting, I think.
< 1272825596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, maybe it was unreliable?
< 1272825614 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be
< 1272825617 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can just use a different program to edit it and compile it using the command-line instead, that can work (if you have QuickBasic Extended)
< 1272825635 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the page fizzie linked implies that its interface was completely insane
< 1272825635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so it was "disabled" in the very last minute
< 1272825647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you read a link?
< 1272825649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!?
< 1272825654 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have QBASIC vector drawings of these things?
< 1272825669 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, looked it up in the logs because it seemed genuinely useful
< 1272825674 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlike the vast majority of links in existence
< 1272825679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the gamedev one?
< 1272825687 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"illegal function call"; thanks, real helpful.
< 1272825687 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1272825708 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: It will highlight the line is wrong, so you can know what is wrong
< 1272825723 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the default type in basic? or should i always use sigils...
< 1272825730 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The default type is SINGLE
< 1272825735 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you use DEFtype to change the default type
< 1272825742 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: single-precision float
< 1272825750 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I usually change it to INTEGER by using the command DEFINT A-Z at the top of the program
< 1272825766 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, my program fails rather badly at Pythagoras' theorem.
< 1272825768 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Not really. I can get a dump of a binary file for x86-32 with "objdump -b binary -m i386 -D fibre.bef" but I don't know what it will want for "-m" to do 64 bits.
< 1272825791 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I normally just always use sigils, single-precision floats are generally a bad format to use nowadays unless you want to store loads in memory
< 1272825830 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: x86-64
< 1272825840 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought.
< 1272825848 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Not here, it doesn't. "Can't use supplied machine x86-64"
< 1272825852 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, wait. i386:x86-64
< 1272825868 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that seems to work.
< 1272825879 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, seems that in Mode X, you store images as four images, each of which stores every fourth pixel from the originals
< 1272825884 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW DOES THIS FAIL SO BADLY
< 1272825891 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I' NO' RI'
< 1272825900 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Annoyingly, the "-i" info listing shows only "machines" (like i386), not the variants like that.
< 1272826001 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, what, timesing it by sqrt(2) works.
< 1272826065 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: As for the job security, if the mode's a closely-guarded secret, and genuinely useful, it means you'll have to hire a programmer from the Inner Circle if you want to enjoy it.
< 1272826082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> I normally just always use sigils <-- sigils? Presumably some floating point format but...?
< 1272826097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> No, wait. i386:x86-64 <-- ah thanks
< 1272826103 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS MAKES NO SENSE GUYS.
< 1272826137 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The little things at the beginning or end of variables, like $foo or foo% or whatever.
< 1272826151 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In computer programming, a sigil (pronounced /'sÉŞdĘ’.ÉŞl/ or /'sÉŞg.ÉŞl/; plural sigilia or sigils) is a symbol attached to a variable name, showing the variable's datatype or scope."
< 1272826160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay
< 1272826164 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I just wanted some more IPA characters on-channel.)
< 1272826179 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I haven't really seen people use the "sigilia" plural anywhere.
< 1272826184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, is it sigils if the language use a single one for all types of variables?
< 1272826196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, like bash does
< 1272826200 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1272826202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has strings and arrays, both use $
< 1272826204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1272826215 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it designates that it is a variable
< 1272826229 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's arguable. Wikipedia disagrees, for example.
< 1272826237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, but what does this have to do with floating point?
< 1272826242 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Many people confuse this [the $ in shells and Makefiles] with a sigil, but it is properly a unary operator for lexical indirection, similar to the * indirection operator for pointers in C"
< 1272826251 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: reading through this guide, my personal theory is that the mode wasn't added deliberately
< 1272826259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, heh?
< 1272826261 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That I don't know; I haven't read the context.
< 1272826261 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but happened by mistake, as a result of undefined behaviour
< 1272826266 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, okay
< 1272826274 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll accept that argument
< 1272826277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but it still persisted in clones?
< 1272826287 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PHP is a proper example
< 1272826288 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, that's possible. It's certainly "based on" the other planar video modes.
< 1272826298 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, if a card's designed to do graphicsy stuff, it's likely that other weird combinations are going to act in a graphicsy way
< 1272826309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1272826345 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As for it still working in all later hardware, it was used quite a lot, so they'd be fools not to support it.
< 1272826353 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O
< 1272826377 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how well Mode X trickery works with really modern graphics cards that still do some sort of VGA, though.
< 1272826437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, don't all modern cards do a bit of VGA, for use during BIOS and such
< 1272826441 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does qbasic work if you use lowercase, I woner.
< 1272826442 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder
< 1272826456 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: A bit, but maybe not quite all.
< 1272826466 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, would make sense
< 1272826480 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes but it just reformats it anyway :D
< 1272826483 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: As for the "completely undocumented", they might be exaggerating a bit. Wikipedia article says of Mode X that: "Even though planar memory mode was a documented part of the VGA standard, it was first widely publicized in the Mode X articles, leading many programmers to consider Mode X and planar memory synonymous. It is possible to enable planar memory in standard 320x200 mode."
< 1272826503 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, OK
< 1272826527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what do you mean with planar memory?
< 1272826529 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is so weird how the functions disappear from the main source
< 1272826596 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: What "Mode X" does; you get four planes, each containing every fourth pixel of the video memory, and (if you want) you can write onto all four plaines with a single-byte write.
< 1272826607 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Useful for filling large areas, for example.
< 1272826623 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A bit complicated around the edges, of course, since you have to fiddle about which planes to enable.
< 1272826628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, onto all planes at once?
< 1272826628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :??
< 1272826636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1272826653 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2.2/20100316074819]
< 1272826742 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I seem to recall that the 16-color modes are all planar; every pixel is one bit in video memory, and you just enable which bitplanes you want to write. The Mode X trick just does the same for the 256-color mode, which is usually a packed-pixel "normal" mode.
< 1272826757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh
< 1272826779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you mean like 8 planes, and one plane for each bit?
< 1272826782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that?
< 1272826790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather, 4 or such I guess
< 1272826803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get 16 colours
< 1272826813 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For 16 colors, yes, like that.
< 1272826838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one question: why?
< 1272826850 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woohoo, my program successfully uses Pythagoras' theorem to draw a triangle. Now I am a genius.
< 1272826863 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's faster, obviously, since you can plot a value on eight pixels with a single-byte write.
< 1272826875 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also more complicated, which is the drawback.
< 1272826886 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, but if you don't want to overwrite 8 pixels at once?
< 1272826894 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QBASIC is not case-sensitive. It works in lowercase or uppercase
< 1272826921 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Then you have to read-modify-write. Or keep a copy to avoid the read.
< 1272826953 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what with the memory sizes back then I doubt the latter was really fun
< 1272826955 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Oh, and another advantage is that you only need one fourth of the addressing space you'd otherwise needs, since the bitplanes are "on top of each other".
< 1272826962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, plus you still need to update that
< 1272826982 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The instructions for GET (graphics) command will tell you how many planes there are
< 1272827005 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, assuming qbasic?
< 1272827020 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usually I prefer DEFINT but in some cases (such as WEBPLOT) program, DEFDBL is more useful.
< 1272827030 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, I do mean QBASIC, of course.
< 1272827043 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, I was thinking in terms of asm here mostly
< 1272827069 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WEBPLOT?
< 1272827087 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: If you use the same screen mode in QBASIC or ASM, hopefully the number of planes should be same, you could try it to figure out
< 1272827120 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it seems that the FSF are trying to join in in the Apple/Adobe mudslinging match
< 1272827121 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WEBPLOT does graphing function like the graphing calculator, but with colors and a few more functions as well
< 1272827124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, I'm only interested in this in an historical kind of way. I doubt I will ever write code using this...
< 1272827125 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't checked what they said yet
< 1272827135 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yours?
< 1272827143 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Then search the video mode documents
< 1272827143 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what is that match? I have completely missed that.
< 1272827154 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: My what are you refering to?
< 1272827160 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: is webplot yours?
< 1272827167 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: Yes
< 1272827171 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool, any download?
< 1272827174 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The memory space advantage is especially important here, since the usual 320*200 screen is 64000 bytes; you can't program in a square-pixel 320x240 mode because 320*240 bytes is more than 2^16 and it doesn't fit in the 64k video memory range. When you cut that down to 1/4, you can fit two 320*240 pages there, and can do hardware-driven double-buffering/page-flipping.
< 1272827184 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/prog/webplot.zip
< 1272827192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1272827195 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: basically, Adobe are annoyed with Apple for not letting them compile Flash programs onto the iPhone
< 1272827207 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Apple are annoyed at Adobe for some other reason
< 1272827221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah that, I heard about that apple forbid it, but I missed the responses.
< 1272827228 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: compiled -- with quickbasic?
< 1272827234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I can't figure out how you can do sane blitting of sprites and such in mode x
< 1272827238 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: Yes it is compiled
< 1272827241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, or even insane
< 1272827243 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with quickbasic?
< 1272827247 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, and it seems to have hit mainstream UK newspapers
< 1272827253 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also gosub instead of sub/call, oldschool man :P
< 1272827254 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, with QuickBasic Extended
< 1272827281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, plus page flip, would that be changing some of the planes to some other ones or what?
< 1272827293 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my programs, I use both GOSUB and SUB for different purposes, also depending on the program. SOLITAIRE CARD uses both (but SUB and FUNCTION mostly)
< 1272827322 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i'm going to try webplot though i've not read the docs
< 1272827328 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assume xmin=xmax will not help..
< 1272827340 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, _ is minus
< 1272827357 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is RPN
< 1272827383 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can put a filename on the command line to load it (it will also save to that file once you quit)
< 1272827391 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Push TAB to switch between graph and editing
< 1272827391 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is REFERENCE just a note field?
< 1272827414 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: try a Google search for "Apple Adobe"; I'm reading many of the top results, and they're pretty interesting
< 1272827419 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. REFERENCE is the function for the red line, but in terms of x=f(y) instead of y=f(x). CURRENT is the cyan line in terms of y=f(x).
< 1272827421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, okay
< 1272827426 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially as there's a whole set of different biases there
< 1272827438 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes, I'm the sort of person who doesn't suggest a search without first trying it myself and reading several of the reuslts)
< 1272827440 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*results
< 1272827446 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: now make it solve equations and do derivatives and you're set for life
< 1272827473 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: I suppose I could add that some time, maybe (or maybe not), but not necessarily right now
< 1272827481 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i meant as separate programs
< 1272827490 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although without variables, would be hard-pressed to do solving/derivatives
< 1272827498 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: If you want insane blitting, just change the plane-writing mask for each pixel of the sprite. If you want to change it less often, divide the sprite data to four planes like that and write it in four stages. And page-flipping means just what it normally does; you have two pages (four planes in each) worth of data in the video memory, and you can change which one is visible.
< 1272827535 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WEBPLOT does have three "manipulator variables" which range from -1..1 when on the graph screen you push A or B or C to select one and then use the arrow keys to manipulate its value.
< 1272827541 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah, I only used page flipping with some nice high level API between me and the hardware. SDL iirc.
< 1272827579 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try loading LOGISTIC.WPL and then, after pushing TAB, push A or B or C and manipulate the values to see an example of how it works. (This file is a logistic map example)
< 1272827586 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently structured if statements is an advanced feature not supported by qbasic
< 1272827603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, as for storing it plane by plane, it seems rather messy if the sprite moves 1 pixel left or right. As far as I can figure out that would mean the first plane would be a different one
< 1272827634 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Structured IF statements are supported by QBASIC, but not as well as some other programming languages.
< 1272827635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus a number of other issues
< 1272827675 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: if you actually did write an equation solver / symbolic differentiator in BASIC I'd be in awe
< 1272827677 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would take godlike powers
< 1272827685 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, you don't always copy sprite plane 0 to video-plane 0, but why would that be a problem? There's a bit more work to compute where you need to start, though.
< 1272827711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes and rotating sprites stored that way would be very painful
< 1272827711 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Differentiation is not so difficult when you write it in expanded polynomial form.
< 1272827722 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: differentiation is pretty easy; it's just rewriting expressions
< 1272827731 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you need a tree style (+; a; b) nested structure for that -- hard in basic --
< 1272827736 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to parse the expression -- hard in basic --
< 1272827742 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you need to turn it into something you can evaluate elsewhere --
< 1272827744 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard in basic.
< 1272827769 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, in that case you can keep it in memory as packed-pixel, and just write first every fourth pixel to plane 0, then the ones after those to plane 1, and so on.
< 1272827772 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I know BASIC is not meant for those things very well. That is why other programming languages exists, too.
< 1272827814 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, I have written a program to calculate polynomials in VBA (Excel). It should be easy to make that to differentiation.
< 1272827818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, wouldn't that be slower? Or weren't systems able to read/write more than 8 bits at a time back then anyway?
< 1272827873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(presumably they could do 16-bit or maybe 32-bit mov even back then)
< 1272827876 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: If I recall correctly (I might not), for hardwarely reasons you can't move data more than a byte at a time from the CPU to the video memory, even though it might provide an illusion of wider writes.
< 1272827885 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: then all you have to do is tie those three things together as functions, add basic variables, and give it some syntax
< 1272827895 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you've got yourself the world's first and last BASIC computer algebra system
< 1272827921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that would have been back then, today I'm 100% certain you can, since video memory is normally WC (write combine)
< 1272827928 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: It is VBA however, not QBASIC.
< 1272827934 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Anyhow, for blitting you can also put stuff into the video memory. There's some hardware help for moving data between different regions of video memory. At the least, it allows you to do real 32-bit read/writes via a VGA "data latch" register.
< 1272827950 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, well, today you'll use the GPU hardware for everything, even physics.
< 1272827956 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Close enough, just rewrite it :P Also, it could be any BASIC-y BASIC, not just Q.
< 1272827959 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Not VB or anything.)
< 1272827966 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: And buses are wider anyway.
< 1272827986 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/dnd/ImprovedUnearthedArcana/Ploynomial_Functions.bas
< 1272827988 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: With a VGA card in the ISA bus, I'm pretty sure it's one-byte writes all the way.
< 1272827992 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, "latch" from how it was implemented in hardware presumably?
< 1272828003 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ploynomial?
< 1272828010 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It only works for single-variables polynomials, however)
< 1272828019 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, it should be s/Ploy/Poly/
< 1272828021 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/dnd/ImprovedUnearthedArcana/Polynomial_Functions.bas clearly yes :P
< 1272828116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, which seems rather low level description of it.. (Also, why a latch instead of a flip-flop. I thought async circuits was rather messier to use?)
< 1272828146 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That's just what people call it; it might not necessarily correspond to the hardware implementation, just the "semantics" of it.
< 1272828153 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1272828182 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: In any case, if you're really interested, go read chapters 47, 48 and 49 at http://www.gamedev.net/reference/articles/article1698.asp
< 1272828202 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You might also be interested in the link I just pasted to AnMaster; it's even more VGA stuffery.
< 1272828224 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(They're a pile of PDFs, unfortunately.)
< 1272828227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1272828284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it is quite a bit more than just VGA stuff is it? Some stuff looks a bit more modern.
< 1272828299 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's a collection of articles from a rather long period of time.
< 1272828315 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh scans
< 1272828321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and low quality ones
< 1272828335 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, that's what you get for free. They're perfectly readable anyway.
< 1272828337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always found such excessively hard to read
< 1272828349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, only by straining your eyes
< 1272828360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least number 66, which was the one I looked at first
< 1272828366 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom_H@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272828379 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: Why all the underscores?
< 1272828389 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clients________
< 1272828409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, quite imaginative names...
< 1272828432 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't seem to have any problems reading that in Evince. It even lets me copy-paste text out of it (curiously), so you can get a quick-and-dirty text-only copy by pasting into 'fmt' or something.
< 1272828442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using evince too
< 1272828473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that looks like OCRed text below the scan
< 1272828474 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow
< 1272828489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are quite a few OCR-ish errors in it
< 1272828506 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and not everything seems to be selectable; if there's graphics, for example.
< 1272828506 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone know about graphics hardware and its requisite software?
< 1272828509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some text is missing
< 1272828544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, rather curious that there is OCR hidden below the scan, or perhaps evince has built in OCR?
< 1272828552 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1272828553 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.silentpcreview.com/article846-page1.html
< 1272828554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would be even more curious
< 1272828556 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like that cooler
< 1272828573 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, I'm wondering. "pdftotext" doesn't print out anything. Maybe evince does in fact do it by itself.
< 1272828596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, try some other reader, I have okular on my laptop
< 1272828624 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "Evince adds OCR support", a Digg post from 2008.
< 1272828630 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1272828632 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Funny that I hadn't noticed until now.
< 1272828649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also doesn't OCR generally needs training?
< 1272828677 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it would *help*, but you can get reasonable output for reasonable source material without.
< 1272828690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, strangely enough it is more readable in okular...
< 1272828700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, higher DPI on that monitor
< 1272828711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably evince would be nice better on there too
< 1272828713 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Evince allows the selection of text in PDF files and allows users to highlight and copy text from documents made from scanned images, if the PDF includes OCR data", says Wikipedia's Evince article. I have no idea what "PDF includes OCR data" means there.
< 1272828741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. evince is not as readable as okular there
< 1272828768 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, okay. It seems that there's some sort of pre-done OCR metadata block in the PDF, and evince's just showing it, in fact.
< 1272828769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, okular seems to anti-alias when you are zoomed != 100 %
< 1272828782 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pdftotext just isn't clever enough to read it.
< 1272828787 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1272828802 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1272829091 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom_H@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272829129 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.madore.org%2F~david%2Flit%2Felfe.html&sl=auto&tl=en <== From the person who brought you Unlambda! (You might not want to click this.)
< 1272829151 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why?
< 1272829187 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks he noticed some gay literature on madore's site before, is that it?
< 1272829189 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, god, make me unsee it!
< 1272829189 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Warning: The following contains explicit descriptions of sexual acts between consenting adult males, if such a description is likely to shock you, or if you are underage, you are invited to stop by your reading ."
< 1272829198 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes
< 1272829221 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Amusingly, if you don't know French, every sentence of the untranslated version sounds elegant and innocent.
< 1272829225 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just the power of French.
< 1272829237 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1272829271 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you use the Adobe reader and you print a encrypted PDF to a non-encrypted PDF, this does *not* allow you do copy the text!! (You will get a graphical-only PDF if you do this.)
< 1272829322 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How TF does "encrypted PDF" make sense? Does only the official PDF viewer have the private key or something?
< 1272829345 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1272829348 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just a flag, protected.
< 1272829353 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're "meant" to respect it.
< 1272829361 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like a certain TCP flag...
< 1272829369 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm?
< 1272829380 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's against the PDF licensespecthingetc to not respect it and disallow copying, iirc.
< 1272829391 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So xpdf follows the rules but one define away and it's freed up.
< 1272829404 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What TCP flag acts like that?
< 1272829414 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "evil bit" :-)
< 1272829416 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the joke "EVIL" flag?
< 1272829419 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah
< 1272829435 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thought you meant a serious flag, for some reason
< 1272829476 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can be changed using defines (which I think is a good way to do things like this (even UOPs on DVDs)), but I would generally prefer this to be a command-line parameter instead
< 1272829495 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Re "encrypted PDF and printing to image"; gaa, it's the dreaded analog hole again!
< 1272829515 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Even if it's a digital image.)
< 1272829520 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: *a-hole
< 1272829525 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're trying to plug it.
< 1272829532 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I'd prefer just not writing any such code in the first place!
< 1272829552 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck the licensing and the specs if they demand such things; let them come to me directly and say "please obey this meaningless bit in the header", and I'll be happy to reply "no".
< 1272829557 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ridiculous.
< 1272829573 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For xpdf, I think there was at least one distribution that patched it to in fact make a command-line parameter of it.
< 1272829575 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But such things are part of the specification, I think the user should be allowed to tell the program whether or not to obey those settings by using a command-line parameter.
< 1272829600 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is this reminding me of GOd
< 1272829603 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God's Debris
< 1272829627 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I don't know why
< 1272829642 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Debian/Ubuntu patch I guess just #ifdef's those bits around ENFORCE_PERMISSIONS, and doesn't define that symbol.
< 1272829647 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: If you want to respect the protection, do how it's always been done: don't violate the damn copyright.
< 1272829667 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you don't care about such nonsenses as owning bits, copy as much as you like.
< 1272829670 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Simple.
< 1272829753 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: I absolutely agree with that, if you want to respect copyright, do it the old fashioned manual way. However, in cases like PDF and DVD, these are part of the specification. So, the program should do that or not depending on the command-line parameter (or configuration file).
< 1272829757 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear downloads: Please download
< 1272829768 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: A lot of parts of specifications are completely stupid, though.
< 1272829790 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, say the C standard has a part in it that, while well-intentioned, completely reverses the meaning of most of the language.
< 1272829791 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: I do agree with that. Many things are stupid. And that's not the only stupid part of the PDF specification!
< 1272829795 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd obviously not implement it.
< 1272829808 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, the PDF standard has a part in it that, while bad-intentioned, completely reverses sanity. :-)
< 1272829840 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mumble mumble the postscript subset is alright but then they made it shit mumble mumble
< 1272829874 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit strange that Ubuntu xpdf patches include fixes for five CVE-series vulnerabilities from 2007; shouldn't those have appeared at upstream by now? Of course I haven't looked at these in detail, so maybe it's a some sort of a non-issue.
< 1272829893 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, xpdf has the most hideous interface in a long time.
< 1272829898 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of an X11 program.
< 1272829913 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I sort of accidentally started to use Evince instead on this new Ubuntu installation.
< 1272829934 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Evince respect the unenforcable bit?
< 1272829947 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps, but these things are needed to conform with the standards, even if it is very stupid (which is certainly is, which is why I suggest a command-line option to change it). Even for things like C standard, it should be implemented as long as it does not conflict with the rest of the specification (but you can have options such as #pragma and so on to correct it)
< 1272829952 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have a protected PDF to check with right now.
< 1272829965 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the unenforcable bit?
< 1272829980 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the don't-copy bit
< 1272829995 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... let's golf a program that flips the don't-copy bit to show just how ridiculous it is :-)
< 1272829997 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you mean don't copy the PDF file as a whole?
< 1272830008 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If we can get it small enough, we can argue that interpreting it as a bit-flipper is utterly arbitrary
< 1272830013 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as there are far too many meanings for such a short string
< 1272830017 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus it's perfectly legal Q.E.D. :P
< 1272830022 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: Exactly!
< 1272830038 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, yes, Colour of your Bits etc., but does that really apply if your bits are (*494#$1*(7
< 1272830099 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION loves the Worms theme music
< 1272830101 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3
< 1272830201 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... Could you write (realistically) functions f and g such that f(n) gives a valid BF program for all naturals, and g(<valid BF program>) gives a number that you can reconstruct n with it? Preferably in a sensible amount of time/
< 1272830247 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1272830251 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, no problem.
< 1272830252 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spoon?
< 1272830255 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider a BF program as a base-8 number; one for each commands.
< 1272830264 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1272830264 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This base-8 number is a natural.
< 1272830266 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q.E.D.
< 1272830271 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How extremely obvious.
< 1272830272 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*each command
< 1272830277 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's not quite QED, but the rest is horribly obvious :P
< 1272830279 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite.
< 1272830292 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, no.
< 1272830294 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well, you know how much real-world mathematicians leave out of their proofs...
< 1272830301 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said *valid* BF program.
< 1272830311 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need balanced []
< 1272830311 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Valid as in matching brackets?
< 1272830316 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahhhh
< 1272830319 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, basically.
< 1272830324 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fine; translate it to that language that uses GOTOs instead.
< 1272830329 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do the same process to that.
< 1272830340 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or do something ridiculous, like:
< 1272830340 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: I don't think the translation from BF to that language is 1-1
< 1272830357 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :binary:
< 1272830363 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"0n" -- n is the command
< 1272830367 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"1n1n1n" -- [nnn]
< 1272830371 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. 1 continues the loop
< 1272830373 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno about nesting
< 1272830377 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could figure it out anyway
< 1272830379 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"obviously possible"
< 1272830384 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By definition there is such a translation :P
< 1272830386 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QED :P
< 1272830418 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it exists because obviously you can do it because it's a data structure and you can goedel-numerise them
< 1272830419 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact
< 1272830420 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what
< 1272830424 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just generate all valid bf programs
< 1272830424 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-
< 1272830425 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+
< 1272830425 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<
< 1272830426 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>
< 1272830426 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :,
< 1272830427 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.
< 1272830430 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[]
< 1272830435 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[-]
< 1272830436 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[+]
< 1272830438 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[...]
< 1272830440 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[]-
< 1272830443 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[]+
< 1272830444 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1272830446 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<[+<]+>
< 1272830448 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc
< 1272830458 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :map a BF program P to its index n in the list.
< 1272830469 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I thought of that, but I quickly dismissed it as utterly impractical.
< 1272830470 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly this isn't countably infinite so that's a .. problem
< 1272830472 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/ZeroBF
< 1272830481 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, anyway, it exists and it's trivial so stop thinking about it.
< 1272830521 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, but ideally I would like to fashion these into a usable program.
< 1272830545 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Ubuntu version of Evince I have here seems to lose PDF security properties somewhere. "pdfinfo" says "Encrypted: yes (print:yes copy:no change:no addNotes:no)", but Evince says "Security: No", and lets me copy whatever I want.
< 1272830567 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Based on Safalra's method for calculating the number of bits needed to store a Brainfuck program of length n.
< 1272830607 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It's also trivial to just go with a function that considers the number a base-8 encoding of Brainfuck *and* is undefined for invalid Brainfuck programs. :P
< 1272830614 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ok how about this
< 1272830619 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0^n 1 0^m
< 1272830620 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :means
< 1272830624 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ins[n] ins[m]
< 1272830627 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where ins is the array of instructions
< 1272830629 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait. "All naturals".
< 1272830630 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ^ is repetition
< 1272830631 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, unary, right
< 1272830632 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now
< 1272830636 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darn it, that makes it a pain.
< 1272830638 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we do a loop by saying 2+n for all n in it
< 1272830639 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so
< 1272830659 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite easy for a countably infinite subset of the naturals.
< 1272830663 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01210 = 01230 = -[-]
< 1272830671 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is in base infinity o_O
< 1272830673 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but
< 1272830678 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a set of naturals
< 1272830682 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a finite set at that
< 1272830686 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is isomorphic to a natural
< 1272830689 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so do that
< 1272830690 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tada
< 1272830747 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I'm designing my own perfect document authoring system; am I a madman for trying to displace Knuth's righteous place?
< 1272830758 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: Probably.
< 1272830763 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kaykay
< 1272830790 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: I don't really get the thing about 2+n.
< 1272830798 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At the very least, though, you must be sure to do everything right that TeX does right.
< 1272830804 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ok, let's say
< 1272830807 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for all n from 0 to 7
< 1272830808 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have
< 1272830811 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{a,b,c,d,...}
< 1272830813 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we correspond each to its number
< 1272830818 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to its instruction i mean
< 1272830821 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's your program, right?
< 1272830822 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you are damned well rendering the text beautifully.)
< 1272830823 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so
< 1272830827 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we see [...]
< 1272830831 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we figure out the program-list for ...
< 1272830835 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then we increase all elements in it by 8
< 1272830850 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this way, if we know it's >7, it's in a loop
< 1272830863 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>15, two loops
< 1272830864 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc
< 1272830868 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahh.
< 1272830872 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then we've flattened it into a flat set of naturals
< 1272830882 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have a correspondence N^n -> N for all n
< 1272830898 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so substitute the length of the list for n (try recursive application of an N^2 -> N perhaps)
< 1272830901 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and fire away
< 1272830907 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tada
< 1272830937 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Actually, that's why I'm calling it a document-authoring system: It's more general than TeX.
< 1272830940 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sooo...
< 1272830953 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :,[.,] would be...
< 1272830955 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You write in terms of more semantic -- but not fully semantic -- commands, then renderers and style files turn this into something you actually look at.
< 1272830968 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Though actual custom formatting won't be frowned upon where needed. We're not nazis like the TeXmacs guys.)
< 1272831004 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5(12)(13)?
< 1272831021 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A title block would probably look like this:
< 1272831022 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\_title := { Hello, world! }
< 1272831023 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\_author := { Elliott Hird }
< 1272831023 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\_date := { \today }
< 1272831023 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\docinfo
< 1272831025 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ,[.,] would be
< 1272831026 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's assume
< 1272831033 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- + < > , .
< 1272831034 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for our instructions
< 1272831037 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's actually not 8
< 1272831041 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since we have 6
< 1272831042 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we have
< 1272831051 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{4, {5,4}}
< 1272831054 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we need to flatten 5,4
< 1272831065 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 is our biggest number, so we want to add 6 to each one
< 1272831071 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{4, 6+5, 6+4}
< 1272831074 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{4, 11, 10}
< 1272831081 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :consider ,[[.,]]
< 1272831081 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then add?
< 1272831082 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it'd be
< 1272831086 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1272831090 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use N^n -> N bijection
< 1272831092 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are many
< 1272831096 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :consider ,[[.,]]
< 1272831099 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: So, actually trying to improve on TeX's design. :)
< 1272831103 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{4, {{5,4}}}
< 1272831110 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is N^n -> N bijection.
< 1272831111 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{4, {6+5,6+4}}
< 1272831114 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{4, {11, 10}}
< 1272831118 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{4, 6+11, 6+10}
< 1272831123 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{4, 17, 16}
< 1272831129 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I get that bit.
< 1272831129 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: lern u sum mathematics, please.
< 1272831134 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :N^n -- n-length tuple of naturals
< 1272831136 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :N -- natural
< 1272831139 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bijection -- 1:1 mapping
< 1272831145 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have a mapping from two naturals to one natural
< 1272831154 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we have a mapping from n naturals to one natural, Q.E.D.
< 1272831155 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yars.
< 1272831175 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Then style files would include things like
< 1272831181 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I object to the "lern u sum mathematics" bit.
< 1272831196 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\section := { \margin[-.5em] \size[1.5em] \bold }
< 1272831197 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then
< 1272831201 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ \section Poop lol }
< 1272831207 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well, it's pretty simple stuff...
< 1272831228 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you don't cover it in school!
< 1272831245 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have an excuse!
< 1272831246 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing of importance is covered in school.
< 1272831252 0 :hiato!~fdulu@41-132-16-47.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272831267 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb
< 1272831402 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: Thanks for that.
< 1272831602 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you make a picture of Oscar Wilde in 16 colors with less than 32x32?
< 1272831723 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1272831867 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make a black box, and declare black boxes to be representative of Oscar Wilde.
< 1272831979 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK but that isn't even close to what is intended. The background color is 7 (gray). Also, QBASIC vector drawings of the baker, the spider, the king, each with background color 0 and the size not larger than approx. 210x240 each
< 1272831979 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, how many pixels do you need before something constitutes a "picture", and is therefore equivalent to (more than) a thousand words of text?
< 1272831990 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just discovered /r/saddestof
< 1272831996 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm going to be sick
< 1272832000 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: OK, ah. That's the "picture"?
< 1272832021 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, a picture's worth a thousand words, or so they say.
< 1272832025 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They say a picture is worth a thousand words but clearly it depends on the picture and on the words
< 1272832147 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know how to make suits using QBASIC vector drawing (including some additional suits, to make 9 suits in total), but I'm not that good at drawing in general, however
< 1272832358 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Generally, even for restricted-resolution restricted-color stuff, I've usually just scaled images with graphics tools. With quite horrible results. The rfk86 font is the only exception I can think of where I did manual pixel-pushing.
< 1272832368 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pixel-graphics artistry is a legitimate field, though.
< 1272832389 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/38X0q6NF  See line 982 and line 1496
< 1272832438 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although line 982 could be changed to pixels stored in DATA statements instead, since it is small enough)
< 1272832443 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back
< 1272832511 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, I respect you. you're crazy
< 1272832553 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. uh... if you want something *completely* horrible, open an existing photograph in Inkscape or some-such, use the vectorization tools, then do path-simplify a few dozen times, then convert all those beziers into regular lines and convert that into the qbasic draw syntax. You'll end up with something that resembles a modernist art piece, and it's a safe bet no-one will recognize the person in it.
< 1272832566 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder whether := really deserves to be a primitive, rather than just a command.
< 1272832629 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: But I don't want something completely horrible
< 1272832647 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wilde is not exactly easy to portray in tiny.
< 1272832655 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't help you there, then, I'm afraid. I only do horrible.
< 1272832674 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you good to draw anything such as baker, spider, king, in 210x240 approx size?
< 1272832714 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: If Oscar Wilde won't fit perhaps I can put something else on that card, that will fit.
< 1272832744 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure you can do Wilde.
< 1272832756 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Face, long hair, maybe a tiny hand-segment on chin; done.
< 1272832767 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, but I'm not so good at drawing like that.
< 1272832848 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor I, I'm afraid -- but I can picture what it'd look like in my head...
< 1272832870 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. OK. Who can do?
< 1272832880 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno :/
< 1272832886 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Huh. I think my architecture means that it could be used to... directly synthesize well-typesetted mathematics into plain HTML and CSS.
< 1272832902 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh.
< 1272832936 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Because things like basic positioning, layout commands etc. would be output-agnostic (obviously, or it'd be very unportable).
< 1272832953 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, the output HTML would be large and crazy and anyone who's ever written a semantic web page or, uh, been blind would maul me...
< 1272832954 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But who cares?
< 1272832955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<zzo38> But such things are part of the specification, I think the user should be allowed to tell the program whether or not to obey those settings by using a command-line parameter. <- kpdf (for KDE 3.5.x at least) had a an option in the preference dialog for it. IIRC okular (KDE 4.x) has that too
< 1272832974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evince I don't know, after all it has no settings dialog at all it seems
< 1272833002 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: My copy forgets the security settings somewhere, possibly already in libpoppler.
< 1272833019 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I have no idea how it is with the official sources.
< 1272833065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, which distro?
< 1272833070 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Ubuntu.
< 1272833074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I don't have any such pdf to test with
< 1272833083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I have both ubuntu and arch linux handy
< 1272833091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latter tends to avoid non-upstream patches
< 1272833101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while ubuntu tends to be rather heavy on that
< 1272833147 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: According to pdfinfo, http://www.adobe.com/products/pdfjobready/pdfs/pdftraag.pdf has some security settings: (print:yes copy:no change:no addNotes:no). I could copy-paste text out of it, at least, which I think should be disallowed by "copy:no".
< 1272833170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, isn't dragging tabs supposed to work in firefox to rearrange them?
< 1272833180 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I have handy anything that *does* respect those things so that I could make sure the document actually has them.
< 1272833181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some reason I it suddenly doesn't work
< 1272833213 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stock xpdf will do
< 1272833233 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Those are the kind of things I was suggesting. For programs without configuration dialog boxes, they could be stored in configuration files and/or command-line parameters. (MegaZeux uses config file, which can be overridden by command-line parameters, it also has a configuration dialog but the dialog box is only for the current session, if you want it permanent you need to use the config file)
< 1272833234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, copy works with evince under arch linux at least
< 1272833247 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't have stock xpdf, just the Ubuntu-patched "evil xpdf" (tm).
< 1272833260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have xpdf at all handy
< 1272833280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it is in arch, but too lazy to install that
< 1272833282 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\docinfo := {
< 1272833282 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  { \size[2.5em] \bold \title } \break
< 1272833282 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  { \italic \author, \date } \break
< 1272833282 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :}
< 1272833283 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(from some imaginary doc style)
< 1272833316 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a real Adobe Reader on the OS X, though; I had an occasion I needed to show some slides that were horrible with Preview.app, and I have no idea what would be a sensible tool for PDF-based slides on OS X.
< 1272833350 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Preview is my favourite PDF reader by far.
< 1272833354 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just handles everything. Perfectly.
< 1272833366 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah...
< 1272833370 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At my school we just printed out the PDF slides and viewed them on the wall using the projector
< 1272833377 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It didn't handle sensible antialiasing-filtering for fullscreen viewing of the raster images in those particular slides.
< 1272833382 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I miss built-in browser PDFs.
< 1272833390 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Miss? How?
< 1272833396 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, Preview does that too. Also perfectly.
< 1272833402 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably the best bit of OS X, actually...
< 1272833421 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I switched from OSX to Ubuntu.
< 1272833429 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: ey's a linux user? i don't know of a linux pdf viewer that can display in a firefox tab
< 1272833460 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pineapple: you can do it with mozplugin - but it's Ugly with a capital Y
< 1272833465 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think adobe reader does it natively
< 1272833470 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use Linux, yes, though I'm not particularly enamoured with it.
< 1272833483 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adobe reader does on windows at least
< 1272833498 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If Apple hadn't done the poopy things they've done recently I'd probably go OS X.
< 1272833507 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Poopy things?
< 1272833535 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The whole iPhone SDK license debacle.
< 1272833539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Phantom_Hoover> I miss built-in browser PDFs. <-- konqueror does it
< 1272833546 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the "assembling a patent portfolio to go after Theora" one.
< 1272833551 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both signs of impending Dark Lordism.
< 1272833557 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The latter a sign of pure malice.
< 1272833561 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes me wary.
< 1272833573 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: What I mind with Preview and Firefox is that if I click a PDF link, it opens in a separate Preview window (which I don't mind) but it also drops (like, a turd) the PDF file directly on the desktop, which annoys me to no end; I more often just want to take a peek, not save something. I'm sure this is configurable somehow, though.
< 1272833574 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the fact that their users are one of the most smug sets of people in the world.
< 1272833579 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's this about Apple and Theora?
< 1272833595 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I know, I know; but there's always public perceptions, you know, and I just tried to do what I can to fight that.
< 1272833602 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It /was/ irritating getting mocked merely for using an OS.
< 1272833608 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apple: "Theora probably violates patents, and we're going to sue because we're douchetards."
< 1272833609 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's fucking Unix, man. It's actually certified Unix.
< 1272833619 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes. Exactly.
< 1272833625 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: it's *nix that hides its routes
< 1272833631 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and terminal.app sucks
< 1272833637 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pineapple: *roots; and not really. And hey I like Terminal.
< 1272833639 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :roots*
< 1272833645 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i meant that
< 1272833661 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really want to use a non-OS X operating system right now; but I don't think I can support Apple at all right now.
< 1272833662 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But does it hide its routes, too? :P
< 1272833675 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which puts me in a horrible position, because Ubuntu - well, it's lovely but it sucks.
< 1272833681 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS 7 is non OS X
< 1272833681 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BSDs - ehhh maybe
< 1272833685 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what else?
< 1272833688 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: try another linux?
< 1272833692 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Contradiction much?
< 1272833693 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pineapple: I've tried many
< 1272833699 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LFS?
< 1272833704 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian - just like Ubuntu, but with less polish!
< 1272833709 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although less poopiness too)
< 1272833709 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl
< 1272833716 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arch - Just like Gentoo, except slower!
< 1272833720 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try Debian - just like Ubuntu, but with less douchebaggery (also, more douchebaggery)
< 1272833725 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gentoo - Just like a life, except not! At all!
< 1272833735 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the problem with Ubuntu?
< 1272833742 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: you could always try a BSD
< 1272833748 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Gregor> But does it hide its routes, too? :P <-- does the route(8) command exist?
< 1272833756 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It's just sort of shit in all these tiny ways.
< 1272833769 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm curious.
< 1272833774 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Typography is still abhorrent. Interface still doesn't feel polished. Things crash and sometimes you're not sure why. Things are inconsistent and sometimes you're not sure why.
< 1272833786 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, Ubuntu definitely has some rough edges
< 1272833789 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My problems with all distros are solely philosophy-based.
< 1272833793 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything just seems like it's built out of cardboard; OS X, for all its failings, at least feels like those failings are part of a solid steel structure.
< 1272833798 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do like that ubuntu doesn't hide the command line from you, though
< 1272833808 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, it does.
< 1272833812 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least as much as OS X.
< 1272833821 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both have the terminal in clear sight, but never tell you to use it. Ever.
< 1272833833 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION huggles his sidux and avoids distro wars X-P
< 1272833837 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the general support from #ubuntu involves "type this command in"
< 1272833838 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS X' terminal is in plain sight now?
< 1272833844 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There being two ways to do something doesn't make it bad.
< 1272833858 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__, put Android on your computer?
< 1272833859 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1272833863 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1272833863 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :last I recall I invariably had to dig it out manually
< 1272833865 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders how horribly that would work
< 1272833866 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: /Applications/Utilities
< 1272833872 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is where tons of utility programs are.
< 1272833876 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is why I should write my own distribution instead
< 1272833882 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: LFS
< 1272833884 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, you know, the Activity Monitor; or the full-featured screen grabber; or the network utility; or...
< 1272833886 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not "dragging it out".
< 1272833892 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's going to where the applications are, and going under utilities.
< 1272833902 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ubuntu: Applications -> Accessories.
< 1272833904 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Notice a similarity?
< 1272833917 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS X just uses a Dock which means spaces on it are more precious than Ubuntu's larger menu.
< 1272833925 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't just execute files inn OS X.
< 1272833926 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And obviously not many people actually use the Terminal, on OS X /or/ Ubuntu.
< 1272833930 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes you can.
< 1272833934 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need to use Terminal.
< 1272833935 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You double click them, and they open in the Terminal.
< 1272833939 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly!
< 1272833942 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, what?
< 1272833947 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course command-line programs open in the terminal.
< 1272833949 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: invariably, though, i would only use that menu exactly once for a terminal emulator... to create a shortcut to it in a faster to access place
< 1272833951 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They do on Ubuntu too...
< 1272833961 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No they don't.
< 1272833961 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pineapple: Yes, based from Linux From Scratch, but then I can make a few differences (maybe a lot of differences) and call that a Linux distribution
< 1272833971 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well clearly you're insane as they very much do.
< 1272833980 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very possibly...
< 1272833984 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And in any way it's a completely insane complaint as almost all raw binaries on OS X are command-line utilities.
< 1272833985 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Phantom_Hoover
< 1272833988 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye.
< 1272833991 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Yup. That's the raison d'etre of LFS.
< 1272834005 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LFS is for dummies real men make their own guide from scratch.
< 1272834008 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know... as much as people here slag off ubuntu, i don't think that i would've gotten into linux as much as i have done were it to not have existed
< 1272834017 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ubuntu is all right
< 1272834021 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not saying other distros are better
< 1272834022 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hell no
< 1272834029 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: Command-line utilities or X11 stuff. And you're probably crazy for using an X11 program.
< 1272834041 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that... like, if windows had decent programming POSIX base underneath
< 1272834049 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd use it
< 1272834052 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't see any particular reason to rate Ubuntu more than, say, 3 points higher than Windows
< 1272834062 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pineapple: no, I probably wouldn't
< 1272834067 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P
< 1272834069 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's what I'm saying, Ubuntu isn't astounding and it really needs to be
< 1272834080 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because all the little improvements just aren't helping, it really needs a solid foundation
< 1272834086 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even 10.04? (i've not tried it yet)
< 1272834103 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pineapple: I haven't either, but the new looks and stupid social IM stuff?
< 1272834113 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :New bootup thing, sure, who cares...
< 1272834117 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use Ubuntu at Free Geek, because that is what computers they have there. I use the command-line stuff mostly. But there are some things I don't like about Ubuntu but that's OK because I can write my own later, as well
< 1272834124 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The new look is more polished but still rough at t he edges.
< 1272834137 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They really do need to sort Linux typography the fuck out though.
< 1272834142 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's getting ridiculous.
< 1272834153 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're already blatantly violating Apple's patent, so violate it as well as they do.
< 1272834154 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it's quite annoying when it fails.
< 1272834158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pineapple> you know... as much as people here slag off ubuntu, i don't think that i would've gotten into linux as much as i have done were it to not have existed <-- ah, back when I began ubuntu didn't exist. It was mostly red hat and slackware back then, and debian I guess too.
< 1272834162 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because when it fails it fails *hard*.
< 1272834173 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: Ubuntu licenses the patent, IIRC.
< 1272834182 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: heh moneybags
< 1272834187 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup.
< 1272834195 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't it ELER canon that Shuttleworth's penis ejaculates money?
< 1272834203 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I, personally, just blatantly violate the patent.
< 1272834207 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of which, I bet there hasn't been an update. Crazy odds, I know.
< 1272834214 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see, I'm in so much anticipation
< 1272834219 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH MY GOD THEY DIDN'T UPDATE I WAS RIGHT
< 1272834222 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AM A GENIUS
< 1272834224 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(mmm, Gentoo lets you blatantly violate the patent if you take on all responsibility for doing such...)
< 1272834227 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it were my job there would be no patents, I would make the law so that there is no such things as patents
< 1272834237 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or copyright
< 1272834263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> (mmm, Gentoo lets you blatantly violate the patent if you take on all responsibility for doing such...) <-- yes and official mozilla branding is also an option, :D
< 1272834281 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore, I would make the "patents and trademarks office" to be changed to the "trademarks office"
< 1272834287 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah so you can fap to the amazing firefox
< 1272834289 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trademarks are good thing.
< 1272834290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc it showed a message like "beware, you may not redistribute this binary" or such
< 1272834295 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's totally the main good thing about gentoo :D :D :D
< 1272834296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you turned on official branding
< 1272834299 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/rolleyes
< 1272834312 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which patent is this again?
< 1272834313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, in the build output
< 1272834319 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well hidden if you didn't read it
< 1272834326 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Apple's patent on some sort of another subpixel rendering thing
< 1272834333 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: Oh.
< 1272834341 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even though Ubuntu enables the patent-infringing operation (apparently under license), the result still looks like shit.
< 1272834347 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, it's even worse without.
< 1272834359 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use KDE and it generally looks good
< 1272834370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, KDE 3 or KDE 4?
< 1272834378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, I miss the days of KDE 3 a lot
< 1272834379 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4; the Kubuntu release
< 1272834380 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: You're blessed with a very-high-dpi laptop screen.
< 1272834383 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those tend to smooth out anything.
< 1272834391 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, ignore AnMaster; he hates KDE 4 and <3s KDE 3.
< 1272834393 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's also a madman.
< 1272834395 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: ah, true
< 1272834404 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What really gets me is how much of a pain it is just to get decent fonts.
< 1272834420 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in what sense?
< 1272834420 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No-subpixel + slight hinting looks alright... I guess... but the cruel thing is how much better OS X is
< 1272834433 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, OS X typography approaches the quality of print
< 1272834435 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Re patents, and since the theme of phones and their OSes is a topic sometimes here too; Microsoft's currently saying that Android infringes on their patents, and has so far managed to extract protection money, uh, sorry, I mean license royalties from at least HTC.
< 1272834440 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given a high enough dpi display...
< 1272834440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, agreed. At least on arch and on ubuntu the fonts tend to render very well, assuming you do not use subpixel stuff
< 1272834445 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've just *barely* gotten good fonts of English and Japanese. A single bit of Chinese that isn't in the Japanese font, and it looks *awful*.
< 1272834464 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and apple fonts tend to look like shit on linux, no idea why
< 1272834465 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how they're all unantialiased.
< 1272834469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the open fonts look nice
< 1272834474 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In 2010 (ok, 2009 when this version was released)
< 1272834477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dejavu and so on
< 1272834481 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks for shipping that, Apple.
< 1272834482 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because you use them at full hinting
< 1272834483 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is stupid.
< 1272834492 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because os x fonts don't have hinting info
< 1272834494 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: KDE 4.0 was a tech demo
< 1272834495 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and weren't designed to be hinted
< 1272834503 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pineapple: yes but 4.whateveritis is better than 3 by far
< 1272834505 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 sucked, frankly.
< 1272834517 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4.whateveritis is very awesome
< 1272834519 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 was 2 ported to Qt 3.
< 1272834521 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF
< 1272834521 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it shows.
< 1272834530 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My computer thinks it's not plugged in
< 1272834535 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you make a protest to protest against having patents, so that you can abolish patent law, in Canada?
< 1272834536 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dun dun DUN
< 1272834538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pineapple, KDE 4.1 wasn't very good either, it is finally becomming somewhat okayish with KDE 4.3, but I have gone gnome by now
< 1272834545 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I don't think that would help.
< 1272834563 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like we'll get to hear AnMaster's GNOME complaints in the near future!
< 1272834563 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :patent law will not get abolished
< 1272834568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least with the clearlooks theme it is okay
< 1272834574 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i went with xfce for my arch install; not sure what i'll do when i finally try LFS
< 1272834584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and they messed up the icons, so I'm using an older gnome icon theme version nowdays
< 1272834592 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the new theme is just ugly as hell
< 1272834603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you use a dark theme overall
< 1272834606 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously, WTF is going ojn
< 1272834621 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while my theme use very light colours
< 1272834641 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: THE WORLD IS COLLAPSING AROUND YOU
< 1272834646 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: it should be though
< 1272834656 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...of course actually doing it would be very very complex
< 1272834660 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with all the reorganisation and loose ends etc
< 1272834665 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not the main reason
< 1272834665 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the aftermath, at least, is a good thing...
< 1272834675 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main reason is because it wouldn't get past the lobby
< 1272834684 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes.
< 1272834687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pineapple, LFS is for learning, not for actual use. No package manager (well you can use some semi-working one yourself if you want)
< 1272834699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you won't get notified about new versions and such
< 1272834702 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Pure curiosity, but how did it go with your phone acquisitions? I've been sort of following it with one eye.
< 1272834707 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I would not support outright abolishing it without replacing it with something else
< 1272834709 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes, LFS is great, for learning. Done it myself.
< 1272834712 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: he doesn't like the nexus all that much
< 1272834714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but wouldn't use it for day-to-day use
< 1272834715 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got his hopes too high
< 1272834716 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i'm cool with that... i _want_ the learning experience
< 1272834717 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I would.
< 1272834729 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll save it for the Democratic Republic of alise (neither democratic, nor a republic).
< 1272834732 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pineapple, it is not a system you wish to maintain after the install is done
< 1272834736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is all I'm saying
< 1272834744 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's not going to be on my main machine (i have arch on that one and like it so far)
< 1272834790 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: that would cause innovation to stagnate
< 1272834794 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I figured a while ago that I hate all existing OSs, and so any major tinkering I do should be directed at creating a new OS; for now, I'll just use whatever works with most stuff out of the box and gives me the least hassle.
< 1272834803 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I disagree and we've talked about this before and not got anywhere.
< 1272834821 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So let's wait until we're older and therefore hopefully wiser and can get past whatever dead-ends in argumentation we hit before getting into another loop, eh?
< 1272834823 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: The issue in this case would just be perception though
< 1272834827 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: LFS is actually quite usable for day-to-day use *if* you work at it.
< 1272834835 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, you're already starting to argue.
< 1272834839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, you mean, if you are an LFS maintainer? ;P
< 1272834840 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By doing things like "having a package manager".
< 1272834844 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :About the nature of the disagreement.
< 1272834847 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1272834849 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's fun!
< 1272834853 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I'm procrastinating
< 1272834857 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And "maintaining it".
< 1272834857 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I'm going to return it
< 1272834867 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MAYBE I'll sell it on eBay when the Evo comes out, or something
< 1272834868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, sure, but no one will make available packages with security updates for you, it is up to you to read CVEs and such
< 1272834874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and find what patches to apply
< 1272834876 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes.
< 1272834882 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, battery going to die, and laptop doesn't want to think it's plugged in
< 1272834885 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, you become a distro manager.
< 1272834885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, you need a lot of free time for LFS
< 1272834889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1272834894 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is what you should expect when you make a distro.
< 1272834905 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, there is only one problem I can see with the N900, and that is it's size. It seems way better than android when it comes to the Linuxishness
< 1272834911 0 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272834923 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You must increase the voltage. Of something.
< 1272834930 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LFS is at its most usable when you use it to produce a distro with a bare minimum of software.
< 1272834935 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The issue with the N900 is that it sucks at everything else apart from Linuxness.
< 1272834941 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, it's a bit blocky. It's not *big*, though, as far as these things go.
< 1272834942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm probably
< 1272834942 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though, there are quite likely better options than that.
< 1272834946 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, you know, LOL LINUX MASTURBATE AT LINUX that is the only thing that matters for a smartphone.
< 1272834948 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: Hey, I like it.
< 1272834955 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, but you've used it.
< 1272834959 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-34-17-217.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272834961 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: AnMaster just likes it because it's OMG LINUX.
< 1272834968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I have a non-smartphone that is something like 11x4x1.1 cm
< 1272834973 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL LINUX MASTURBATE AT LINUX is the only thing that matters for most computer technology.
< 1272834977 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Cool story bro
< 1272834980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I'm not comfortable with a phone that is much larger than that
< 1272834982 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever
< 1272834993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a bit of a problem if you want a smartphone
< 1272834994 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll leave my laptop in the kitchen, and Internet from my phone
< 1272834997 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You may have to wait for a generation or two of miniatiruzizization, then.
< 1272834999 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Then start using your phone as a computer instead of a sex toy.
< 1272834999 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the one thing that we can all agree about here, is that technology usage is a deeply personal thing, and that it's impossible to cater to everyone
< 1272835005 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, probably
< 1272835009 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: Dude, I think AnMaster is still ignoring you. :P
< 1272835014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, haha
< 1272835015 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course he is.
< 1272835021 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which means I can taunt him as much as I want behind his back.
< 1272835029 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough.
< 1272835030 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And he won't even say something whiny in response; it's great!
< 1272835031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__, you think so?
< 1272835032 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah
< 1272835046 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do believe you just logread.
< 1272835054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nop, I removed the ignore yesterday
< 1272835056 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, you forgot to update your ignore to handle the massive challenge of TWO UNDERSCORES.
< 1272835063 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ du -h /home/gregor/js/wk/js/WebKit/WebKitBuild/Debug/lib/libQtWebKit.so.4.5.3
< 1272835063 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :447M    /home/gregor/js/wk/js/WebKit/WebKitBuild/Debug/lib/libQtWebKit.so.4.5.3
< 1272835067 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :laaaaaaawl
< 1272835068 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you're so kind and generous. That means you're going to talk to me now :<
< 1272835069 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, look. Actual unignore.
< 1272835075 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Wow that's crazy.
< 1272835079 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: o_o
< 1272835081 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Hey, look. Actual unicorn.
< 1272835083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__, maybe, if I see a point in it
< 1272835093 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Please ignore me again; it was nice...
< 1272835095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, wtf
< 1272835096 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely, even if Linux is all anmaster cares aboit, Android would be good?
< 1272835106 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, -ggdb3?
< 1272835118 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: 19M /usr/lib64/qt4/libQtWebKit.so.4.6.2
< 1272835121 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I honestly don't know, the build is hidden through like eight layers of stupid scripts
< 1272835126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, that is quite WTF too
< 1272835129 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: That doesn't have all the debugging crap.
< 1272835132 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: IT'S TOO JAVA LOL
< 1272835135 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :& IT DOESN'T RUN GTK
< 1272835138 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHICH MEANS IT'S OBVIOUSLY ABHORRENT
< 1272835139 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My compiled one is 20MB without debugging.
< 1272835142 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION headaches, presumably from the glasses
< 1272835145 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Just a sec while I pull up the split debug file.
< 1272835145 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, the debug info is 427MB :P
< 1272835148 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as we all know, gtk is the perfectest for mobile devices
< 1272835157 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, anyway.
< 1272835159 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :413M /usr/lib/debug/usr/lib64/qt4/libQtWebKit.so.4.6.2.debug
< 1272835163 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maemo's going (well, trying to go) Qt too; at least officially.
< 1272835165 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup, that's pretty big.
< 1272835170 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: lawlercopters :)
< 1272835179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1, I want something I can develop my own apps for without the pain of java involved anywhere. for android I understood you can't do the GUI stuff in native code
< 1272835182 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And MeeGo's going some sort of freaky clutter-based OpenGL thing.
< 1272835190 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :40M     /usr/src/debug/x11-libs/qt-webkit-4.6.2-r1
< 1272835191 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if an X server can be made to run o. Android
< 1272835203 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And only 40M for the source code *for* those debugging symbols.
< 1272835205 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I was thinking it would be interesting to use NestedVM to make an Android backend for gdk.
< 1272835223 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You misspelled "horrible".
< 1272835224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, presumably it is built with -ggdb1 or -ggdb2, while Gregor's build is -ggdb3
< 1272835237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, gdk?
< 1272835238 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scala exists.
< 1272835251 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: gdk is the graphics layer for gtk.
< 1272835253 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1272835255 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clojure exists.
< 1272835264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, oh right, sounds familiar now that you mention it
< 1272835267 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No, -ggdb3.
< 1272835269 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: NestedVM exists :P
< 1272835290 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And anyway, when you use Android, you get Microsoft's lawyers after you. (Okay, so maybe they won't/couldn't quite start going after users instead of phone manufacturers.)
< 1272835291 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't know what NestedVM is
< 1272835301 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NestedVM is a system for compiling C->JVM :P
< 1272835304 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that our debugging info is about the same size. ;)
< 1272835306 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, debug symbols for non-trivial C++ programs tends to be very very large, while for C programs it seems to be just large. Either it is because C++ programs are often larger anyway, or the debug info size grows at different rates
< 1272835327 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: C++ *symbols* are much larger than C symbols.
< 1272835330 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there's more of them.
< 1272835343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, would be interesting to figure out what is going on there. I have seen C++ apps with 40 MB before stripping debug info, and 2 MB after
< 1272835351 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that still kept the symbol table
< 1272835352 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION Tylenols. Steo
< 1272835355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just no debug info
< 1272835372 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION also verbs nouns
< 1272835376 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The debugging info also includes things like "line numbers"...
< 1272835378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, that can't account for it all, can it?
< 1272835383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, doesn't it for C too?
< 1272835396 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you compared normal C++ code with normal C code?
< 1272835433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well, iirc I have compared 2D SDL-using games in C++ and C, of similar "complexity"/"game-size"
< 1272835445 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it leaves a bit of fudge factors in
< 1272835453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but shouldn't be completely off
< 1272835505 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why that type of app? because I happened to have some such handy when I did that comparison
< 1272835505 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I'm pretty sure C++ debugging info needs to account for the *types* of those symbols.
< 1272835511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm probably
< 1272835524 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And namespaces.
< 1272835547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, so does C debug info to some degree, after all "print somevariable" in gdb gives you it in some reasonable representation
< 1272835551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as a struct or whatever
< 1272835587 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A general C type name is a lot shorter than any instance of Template Hell.
< 1272835600 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least based on the screenfuls of errors one gets.
< 1272835604 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Significantly less.
< 1272835609 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd paste you some fully-expanded commonly used example C++ types from the STL, but *it would flood the channel*.
< 1272835645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, true
< 1272835710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :couldn't you compress it, presumably a type is often used more than once, and you could do stuff like type 1: namespace: stringtable[382]
< 1272835711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such
< 1272835728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you didn't need to repeat common strings
< 1272835737 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and especially with the name mangling for overloaded methods, which includes the types of arguments in the name.
< 1272835740 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, part of the type for objects is *the object hierarchy*.
< 1272835744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that is already done and you *still* get that huge debug info then I'm scared
< 1272835777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, you mean, how they inherit or?
< 1272835789 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You know LaTeX, right?
< 1272835789 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A generic method "foo" has, at the very least, the namespace and enclosing classes and whatevers.
< 1272835802 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1272835803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, to some degree, I tend to use lyx
< 1272835820 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, I'll go to #latex then
< 1272835832 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also the "fun" of implicitly created functions.
< 1272835838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, if it is something you don't know how to typeset it is probably at ctan ;P
< 1272835842 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The STL is actually a little shorter since the ABI has a shortcut for the std namespace
< 1272835848 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :These, too, get debugging info.
< 1272835861 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, implicitly created functions?
< 1272835866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean by that
< 1272835867 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's a single symbol name from objdump -T `which lynx`:
< 1272835869 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_ZZN5boost9re_detail21basic_regex_formatterINS0_19string_out_iteratorISsEENS_13match_resultsIN9__gnu_cxx17__normal_iteratorIPKcSsEESaINS_9sub_matchIS9_EEEEENS_20regex_traits_wrapperINS_12regex_traitsIcNS_16cpp_regex_traitsIcEEEEEEE16handle_perl_verbEbE24LAST_SUBMATCH_RESULT_ALT
< 1272835873 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Yeah, but the full debugging info for any bit of the STL must be encoded.
< 1272835881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, lynx is C++?
< 1272835888 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Sorry, "lyx". :p
< 1272835892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah...
< 1272835908 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ah, yeah
< 1272835915 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Each object possesses a constructor, destructor, and copy operator.
< 1272835922 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you don't implement these, the C++ compiler generates them for you.
< 1272835938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yet I have seen sensible looking C++ programs with short debug symbols. Mostly they don't use boost or stl
< 1272835946 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm
< 1272835981 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That might help. But the name mangling has at least the "class name in every symbol" overhead.
< 1272835989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, couldn't the copy operator just be a few bytes of wrapper for memcpy() (or if it is supposed to alloc it, new and memcpy)
< 1272836001 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, typically those functions don't actually exist
< 1272836031 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the constructor and destructor are usually no-ops and the copy constructor will likely be a memcpy
< 1272836059 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They still exist.
< 1272836070 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although if it has a member with a user-defined constructor/copy constructor, then they will have to actually exist
< 1272836072 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And thus have debugging info.
< 1272836091 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh computers suck i hate them
< 1272836093 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kill all computers
< 1272836104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, true, iirc the most "sensible" C++ app (when it comes to mangled symbol names) I have seen was some "freestanding" one.
< 1272836110 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's a symbol from "clang", the second C++ program I could think of: _ZN4llvm21SymbolTableListTraitsINS_11InstructionENS_10BasicBlockEE21transferNodesFromListERNS_12ilist_traitsIS1_EENS_14ilist_iteratorIS1_EES8_
< 1272836113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, freestanding the way the C spec defines it
< 1272836115 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's quite a bit shorter, though.
< 1272836120 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :operator= is *also* generated.
< 1272836126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, why on earth
< 1272836129 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Quick test shows that I can't find a copy constructor
< 1272836136 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1272836139 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :default constructor
< 1272836179 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless necessary
< 1272836189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does w3m display graphics in an xterm I wonder
< 1272836200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that it does it well, it tends to end up in the wrong place
< 1272836201 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but how
< 1272836309 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in all seriousness, though, someone needs to come up with a decent C++ debugging format that isn't tacked on to a C format, because C++ debugging could be so much better, and not just by putting GDB in the trash bin where it belongs
< 1272836327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, gdb is quite a nice debugger for C IMO
< 1272836334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't say much about C++
< 1272836337 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you could start by trashing C++.
< 1272836350 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, so what is the issue you have with gdb?
< 1272836382 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: for starters, its expression parser is bad, even in C
< 1272836420 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, examples?
< 1272836455 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to get the name of an enum value that isn't the enum's type
< 1272836503 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You used to be able to cast to the enum type; now you can't
< 1272836510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1272836525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, yes I noticed gdb 7 had some problems compared to older versions
< 1272836536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, UL in a print expression not doing what it should
< 1272836541 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which worked in gdb 6.8
< 1272836547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is very very strange
< 1272836629 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it just feels like a hacked-together piece of software that gets used because no one's come up with an alternative
< 1272836647 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: As far as I can tell from the w3mimg sources, it uses raw xlib to locate the terminal window, then somehow gets a graphics context for drawing on top of it, maybe-possibly by creating a sneaky new window (popup-style so that it won't show up in window lists and such) or not, not sure. Anyway it doesn't use the terminal emulator at all.
< 1272836671 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: That's because enums are not a type in C. ;)
< 1272836673 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: There's similar code for linux framebuffer, to draw directly into it. I think elinks or links2 or something supported the framebuffer like that too.
< 1272836691 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom_H@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272836708 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: You know the flattening thing?
< 1272836711 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A C enum is one or more constant ints.
< 1272836712 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For BF?
< 1272836715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, aaargh
< 1272836729 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yes
< 1272836737 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: enumerators are types
< 1272836743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that explains why it does such a bad job for any terminal except xterm.
< 1272836750 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you deal with it when you have one element. Like +.
< 1272836763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, does it do OCR or such to try to figure out where in the terminal it should be?
< 1272836765 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: An enum in C is not a type.
< 1272836800 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: What do you mean?
< 1272836807 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like [+]?
< 1272836810 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or the whole program +?
< 1272836826 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just "+". As the whole program.
< 1272836826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[+] would become "set current cell to 0"
< 1272836829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1272836837 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: oh, so it isn't. I misread.
< 1272836841 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But how would you encode it?
< 1272836847 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: {1}
< 1272836848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, it should compile into main(void) { return 0; } IMO
< 1272836855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since there is nothing visible from it
< 1272836861 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: please do not talk about things when you have no idea what we are talking about
< 1272836867 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(dead store elimination and such)
< 1272836873 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is in C++, but then, C++ only has a few vague similarities with C.
< 1272836880 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__:  What N^n -> n thing were you considering?
< 1272836896 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's an easy one from N^2 -> N
< 1272836900 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let (m,n) be the tuple
< 1272836916 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :write m and n in unary, i.e. as a series of 1s, in binary; so it's "1111..." in binary.
< 1272836917 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried 2^(m-1)*(2n-1)
< 1272836918 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :put a 0 in between them.
< 1272836921 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interpret this as binary
< 1272836921 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :done
< 1272836926 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that is only N^2.
< 1272836933 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We actually need N^n.
< 1272836942 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We can do this by seeing {a,b,c} as {a,{b,{c,{}}}}
< 1272836951 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, a fold.
< 1272836951 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then adding one to every element we get from the bijection
< 1272836953 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from {}
< 1272836954 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which becomes 0
< 1272836954 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got that.
< 1272836958 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way we can distinguish nils
< 1272836961 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and do it all with just N^2 -> N
< 1272836961 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yet you can cast to an enum
< 1272836966 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is what gdb won't accept
< 1272836973 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So + would be {1, 0}?
< 1272836982 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For EOF?
< 1272836986 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Yes, you can cast to an int.
< 1272836987 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, no, no.
< 1272836995 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, you're totally not getting this :P
< 1272836997 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh. I suck at this.
< 1272836999 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should just write a program?
< 1272837000 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: or whatever the enumerated type is, if it isn't int
< 1272837005 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you understand Haskell?
< 1272837010 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: An enum is an int.
< 1272837017 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: no
< 1272837031 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Also, note that when we're done with this, we'll have every BF program has a nat, but only a (still infinite) subset of the nats have a BF program
< 1272837034 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, yes, but it's not the easiest topic to grasp using an IRC channel.
< 1272837038 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because some won't generate well-formed lists
< 1272837039 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Actually, an enum is an arbitrary grouping of global constant ints, and a type synonym for an int.
< 1272837039 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think
< 1272837040 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure
< 1272837042 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I am wrong
< 1272837047 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can probably fix that somehow
< 1272837049 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we'll see
< 1272837074 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yeah, yeah. the type isn't necessarily int though
< 1272837081 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it is.
< 1272837087 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Each enumerated type shall be compatible with char, a signed integer type, or an unsigned integer type. The choice of type is implementation-deď¬ned,110) but shall be capable of representing the values of all the members of the  numeration. The enumerated type is incomplete until after the } that terminates the list of enumerator declarations."
< 1272837100 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gaah.
< 1272837102 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: I get the idea, it's just the precise structure of the list.
< 1272837108 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's *an integral type*?
< 1272837110 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's very annoying.
< 1272837111 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Right; I'm gonna try and show it to you.
< 1272837113 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the constants themselves have to fit in an int though
< 1272837115 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it need a terminator or not?
< 1272837132 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sort offf not really.
< 1272837137 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It's so that the implmentation can choose a smaller type rather than wasting space on a value that needs 2 bits
< 1272837144 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm.
< 1272837176 0 :adu!~ajr@pool-173-66-9-50.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272837296 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh i'm just looking for a particularly nice N^2 -> N bijection
< 1272837298 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan must know one
< 1272837299 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$MISSPELLED_WORD/$CORRECTLY_SPELLED_WORD/
< 1272837328 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: waitwhat?
< 1272837342 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: waitwhatwhat?
< 1272837348 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what?
< 1272837355 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wha?
< 1272837367 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't N^2 <-> N already a bijection?
< 1272837381 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goedel numbers?
< 1272837388 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the positive numbers, anyways
< 1272837398 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2^a*3^b?
< 1272837406 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: yes... I mean give a functional relationship for it
< 1272837410 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del_numbering
< 1272837414 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: hmm... what's the other way of that
< 1272837424 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adu: nah i want something nice and simple and fitting-into-the-universey
< 1272837425 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Factorise.
< 1272837432 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: how's about no
< 1272837436 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: how about placevalue?
< 1272837442 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because of the time?
< 1272837448 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yea
< 1272837454 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*yeah
< 1272837462 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about N^2 -> R
< 1272837469 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that isn't a bijection
< 1272837475 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't write R -> N^2 surjection.
< 1272837483 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about N^2 -> Q
< 1272837493 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, injection
< 1272837494 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adu: easy.
< 1272837497 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That has problems.
< 1272837508 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, 2/4, 3/6, etc
< 1272837515 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah.
< 1272837530 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i recommend Goedel numbering
< 1272837545 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :N^2 <-> N we're talking about here
< 1272837557 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I would /really/ like to avoid goedel numbering, something simple-arithmetic would be vastly superior here, I know i've seen a really nice one
< 1272837559 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No, it doesn't do any OCR; I think that would be overkill. It just does really random stuff.
< 1272837565 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think fax said it
< 1272837572 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then how about interpositioning their bits?
< 1272837584 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. the placevalue solution i suggested
< 1272837588 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adu: Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeel maybe.
< 1272837592 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bitwise is kinda hard in haskell
< 1272837610 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We'll need bignums for this.
< 1272837611 0 :adam_d!~Adam@cpc2-acto6-0-0-cust48.brnt.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272837613 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a = a1*2 + a0 and b = b1*2 + b0, then c = a1 b1 a0 b0
< 1272837638 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: For example, it recognizes the text part of the terminal window by looking for a child window that has a width and height of at least 0.7 times the actual window; and then it does: if (attr.x <= 0 && attr.width < 30 && attr.height > wop->height * 0.7) /* scrollbar of xterm/kterm ? */ wop->offset_x += attr.x + attr.width + attr.border_width * 2;
< 1272837659 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: thankfully, haskell is well-equipped to /that/ task
< 1272837663 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("Integer" built-in type)
< 1272837665 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not a surprise that thing breaks.
< 1272837690 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adu: mehh maybe
< 1272837701 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd just be really nice to get this so simple... :(
< 1272837708 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: c'mon gimme a good N^2 <-> N bijection!
< 1272837717 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It also finds the terminal window by looking what window has the input focus.
< 1272837760 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: sorry my OCD is totally interfering with me actually doing this
< 1272837768 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just need to find the perfect N^2 <-> N bijection first!
< 1272837774 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't worry.
< 1272837790 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to do it with anything involving factorising either.
< 1272837805 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like this to be at least fairly practocal.
< 1272837815 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/practocal/practical/
< 1272837849 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i mean bits would be perfectly practical... but right know the haskell code is like uber elegant
< 1272837853 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i've love not to have to fuck it up
< 1272837894 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you even do bitwise arithmetic with bignums?
< 1272837904 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ... sort of
< 1272837906 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/arithmetic/operations/
< 1272837915 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: I don't even understand what you're after :/
< 1272837949 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: you know what a bijection is right...
< 1272837950 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Ages ago, I asked if there was a bijective mapping between the naturals and the set of valid BF programs.
< 1272837980 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has learned lots of clever words today
< 1272837987 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I am currently coding up a lovely constructive proof of it!
< 1272837997 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :held up by the lack of elegant bijections from N x N to-fro N.
< 1272838007 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*from, I guess :P
< 1272838016 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: Yes, I do. I don't understand what you're after though.
< 1272838017 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yes, you'll sound very intellectual
< 1272838022 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: qualify after
< 1272838033 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to find
< 1272838034 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just wish that there was someone to sound intellectual to
< 1272838042 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ##php
< 1272838047 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: ???
< 1272838057 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually laughed at that one.
< 1272838061 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I just want a nice bijection that uses mainly arithmetic and shizz... not factoring, or bit operations, etc
< 1272838069 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know there is one, i've just forgotten it :)
< 1272838083 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1272838114 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about the unary one?
< 1272838149 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: The triangular one should do it; let me try to recall it
< 1272838154 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: YES THAT ONE!
< 1272838155 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't we once discuss the boring "triangular" mapping thing; the one that does 1; 2 3; 4 5 6; 7 8 9 10; ... as...
< 1272838158 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I loved that one
< 1272838163 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah, I'm too slow.
< 1272838208 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't say I quite recall how elegant the mapping was, at least in the N-to-N x N direction.
< 1272838224 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The unary mapping thing maps one number to unary(n) := [sum k : 0 <= k < n : (2^k) + 1]
< 1272838224 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think
< 1272838243 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does the triangular one work?
< 1272838261 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's something insanely clever and beautiful
< 1272838266 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just wait for coppro's long-term and off-site memory banks to actiave
< 1272838270 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just zigzagging through the matrix?
< 1272838270 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*activate
< 1272838274 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: underflow
< 1272838275 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's (x, y) -> ((x+y-1)^2 + x + y-1)/2 - y - 1; this isn't simplest form though
< 1272838310 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: Is that it?
< 1272838335 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything without division? :-)
< 1272838341 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think fax's had no division...
< 1272838345 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But sure, okay.
< 1272838349 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now how do I reverse that?
< 1272838353 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's only division by 2
< 1272838357 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like a log in there, if my sleep-deprived brain is  right
< 1272838389 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm.. possibly
< 1272838412 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about
< 1272838425 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sec
< 1272838430 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1272838431 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*is right
< 1272838437 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sec
< 1272838446 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f(u, v) = u + (u + v + 1)(u + v) / 2
< 1272838449 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can we reverse this?
< 1272838453 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shouldn't that last -1 be a +1? I mean, http://pastebin.com/zTkDymu9
< 1272838457 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This thing keeps saying it's not getting power, but it's not shutting down
< 1272838458 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(part of everything3 article "The set of rational numbers is countably infinite")
< 1272838474 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything3?
< 1272838482 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What's the freaky .^?
< 1272838484 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I mean 2
< 1272838494 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Ah yes, it was a bracketing error. Was meant to be - (y - 1)
< 1272838499 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: IIRC it's something to do with matrices.
< 1272838500 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: Octave/Matlab's "do elementwise exponentiation, not matrix power".
< 1272838503 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I think this one is easier:
< 1272838505 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f(u, v) = u + (u + v + 1)(u + v) / 2
< 1272838512 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: fizzie: ah
< 1272838522 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously we do f(x) = x*2
< 1272838531 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have u+(u+v+1)(u+v)
< 1272838532 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have .* and ./ and such too, though the use of ./2 was a bit overkill; dividing by a scalar is always elementwise.
< 1272838532 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then what...
< 1272838641 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEN WHAT BITCHES
< 1272838643 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEN WHAT
< 1272838654 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: i'm doing all the eas^Whard work, you do all the har^Weasy work.
< 1272838659 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Bye
< 1272838660 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, are we still trying to reverse f?
< 1272838665 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x + (x + y + 1)*(x + y) / 2 gives me antidiagonals of 4; 7 8; 11 12 13; 16 17 18 19; ... for some reason. I think in that one your x and y are supposed to start from 0. Not that it's a problem.
< 1272838692 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A new f this time, yes.
< 1272838701 0 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272838702 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, starting from 0 is desirable.
< 1272838715 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if any of the CASs can inverse a function...
< 1272838739 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alpha can reverse it for one variable
< 1272838744 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that even possible?
< 1272838748 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does it woo
< 1272838753 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but can't take the extra step to reverse it for two since it's over the integers
< 1272838754 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait
< 1272838755 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For two vars, I mean?
< 1272838756 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the (u+v) / 2
< 1272838758 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the /2 is for the whole thing
< 1272838759 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1272838761 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not just the (u+v)
< 1272838765 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f(u, v) = u + (u + v + 1)(u + v) / 2
< 1272838772 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it's over the naturals
< 1272838776 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, yes
< 1272838779 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :over the naturals
< 1272838789 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alpha parsed it wrong with the /2 :(
< 1272838798 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind alpha's results /did/ give me square roots, so...
< 1272838812 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first u is not over the 2
< 1272838815 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION plugs in the right version
< 1272838842 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and division is transitive with multiplication
< 1272838852 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't slept for over 24 hours, remember
< 1272838855 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something liek that figure
< 1272838857 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*like
< 1272838868 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Howâ€˝
< 1272838876 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries inversing your earlier one
< 1272838878 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: what do you mean, how?
< 1272838889 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you not sleep for that long?
< 1272838918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh at that terminal stuff, and it explains why it is above my tabs...
< 1272838923 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: They're pretty much the same function
< 1272838925 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was *wrong* with the unary one?
< 1272838947 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+- a constant factor
< 1272838957 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I've not slept for 40 hours before.
< 1272838962 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unary one -- because it doesn't include all naturals.
< 1272838971 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are naturals not of the form (in binary) 11111111111111111111...011111111111111.
< 1272838972 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean 0?
< 1272838978 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, yeah.
< 1272838980 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are, for instance, naturals like 1010101.
< 1272838985 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forgot that.
< 1272838986 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which Doesn't Work, Yo.
< 1272839006 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I /could/ biject it as elem in unary 0 elem in unary 0 elem in unary, declare duplicate 0s to be ignored, but then it wouldn't be a bijection
< 1272839011 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the 0s would get lost in translation
< 1272839014 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can we just *try* factorisation?
< 1272839020 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No >_<
< 1272839031 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's inelegant, but at least it *works*.
< 1272839058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night
< 1272839196 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: But does it include every natural in the mapping?
< 1272839196 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the important bit...
< 1272839200 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :question
< 1272839214 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1272839222 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what constitutes a valid BF program
< 1272839230 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: Every natural except 1 and 0
< 1272839242 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google gives f(u, v) = 2^(u-1)*(2v-1)
< 1272839266 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which obviously works for all naturals >= 1.
< 1272839267 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: any program with balanced brackets.
< 1272839272 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: ah
< 1272839287 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(consider a tape infinite on both sides)
< 1272839303 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: 2^ means there's gonna be a sqrt.
< 1272839310 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which will be inherently inaccurate ...
< 1272839314 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, will it?
< 1272839331 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reversing just takes factorisation.
< 1272839342 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And sqrt.
< 1272839345 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1272839350 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, inverse is actually -(log(-(1/2-v)/u))/(log(2)) apparently
< 1272839350 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing is squared.
< 1272839365 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, right.
< 1272839365 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How should we factorise it then?
< 1272839380 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was messing with it earlier.
< 1272839391 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just get the prime factors, which is the problem.
< 1272839398 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeaaah
< 1272839406 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, for every x, does there exist u, v such that 2^(u-1)*(2v-1) = x?
< 1272839408 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not so sure.
< 1272839421 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks to be true, though.
< 1272839423 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, you only need the exponent of 2.
< 1272839426 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The table is at http://pastebin.com/3Hxr2XpJ
< 1272839445 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Much easier.
< 1272839457 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though less elegant.
< 1272839488 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: by adding (-1) to the whole thing can we get all naturals entirely?
< 1272839500 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given n, find the largest m s.t. n/2m is an integer.
< 1272839505 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides she needs octave, stat
< 1272839510 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/2m/s^m/
< 1272839523 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, you know what I mean.
< 1272839527 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: We can do that "precisely" with modulo.
< 1272839536 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah.
< 1272839552 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then divide n by 2^m, from which you can derive v.
< 1272839561 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :u comes from m easily.
< 1272839586 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :biTo :: (Integer, Integer) -> Integer
< 1272839586 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :biTo (u,v) = (2^(u-1)*(2v-1)) - 1
< 1272839586 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agreed?
< 1272839598 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the -1 to cover all naturals
< 1272839614 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah.
< 1272839636 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want that to accept as input also 0, you might need to do +1 to u and v.
< 1272839668 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bookkeeping.
< 1272839680 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Urgh, okay.
< 1272839685 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so u+1-1 => 2^u
< 1272839699 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :biTo (u,v) = (2^u*(2*(v+1)-1)) - 1
< 1272839700 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah?
< 1272839708 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, that's 2*v... unless i'm parsing it wrong
< 1272839710 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think I am
< 1272839724 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :biFro1 :: Integer -> Integer
< 1272839725 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :biFro1 n = head . filter (\m -> mod (n+1) (2*m) == 0) $ [1..]
< 1272839727 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway this finds m
< 1272839738 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, biFro1 0 doesn't work
< 1272839746 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh of course
< 1272839746 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/n
< 1272839747 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1272839749 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do i need n+2?
< 1272839749 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/
< 1272839763 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, cuz no 2 either
< 1272839764 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh
< 1272839775 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact biFro1 never terminates apart from on simple values
< 1272839778 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf am i doing wrong
< 1272839779 0 :nooga!~nooga@093105098174.pila.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272839798 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :)D. >
< 1272839823 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :octave:35> [u, v] = ndgrid(0:2, 0:2); 2.^u .* (2*v+1)
< 1272839824 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ans =
< 1272839824 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    1    3    5
< 1272839824 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    2    6   10
< 1272839824 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    4   12   20
< 1272839826 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That looks okay.
< 1272839835 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, and the -1 in the end.
< 1272839851 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know what? Just get Octave to invert the bloody function.
< 1272839865 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Octave isn't a CAS.
< 1272839873 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I DON'T CARE :P
< 1272839875 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yea
< 1272839877 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathematica is, but I couldn't quite figure how to phrase the question.
< 1272839893 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's an InverseFunction[] function, but it just prints f^-1 to me. :p
< 1272839901 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got the algorithm, if anyone's interested.
< 1272839902 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahah :D
< 1272839925 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i watched wolfram's talk @ TED
< 1272839929 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Here, you be my over-IRC mathematica shell and I think I know how to tell it
< 1272839933 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man, he's crazy
< 1272839938 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yar?
< 1272839944 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: In[16]:=
< 1272839950 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, yes, I can paste things in.
< 1272839958 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: RmRf["BIG FAT COCKS/"]
< 1272839966 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, /me googles the right function arguments again
< 1272839968 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out[16]= RmRf[BIG FAT COCKS/]
< 1272839987 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: MathKernel$System["rm -rf ~"]
< 1272839996 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll skip that one.
< 1272840002 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though it'd solve my quota problem, I guess.
< 1272840008 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :System is in MathKernel ?
< 1272840018 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the most ogical solution i've seen
< 1272840025 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :logical*
< 1272840028 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just making shit up
< 1272840030 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1272840039 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: so what is the algorithm :P
< 1272840041 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'll haskellise it
< 1272840043 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you do it wrong ;]
< 1272840082 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell <3
< 1272840094 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: If you want, you could do <<"!rm -rf whatever"
< 1272840110 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe
< 1272840115 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: <<"anus"
< 1272840126 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: Wait a bit.
< 1272840131 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe we should think about rm -rf based esolang
< 1272840132 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just a read-file, the ! is important there.
< 1272840132 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like
< 1272840133 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WAIT A BIT FOR THE ANUS
< 1272840139 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anus is an important file
< 1272840152 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1272840203 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: Aha-ha: http://pastebin.com/xjqxZLnw
< 1272840213 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what is it? internet is borky
< 1272840224 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I guess I can paste, it's not that much.
< 1272840230 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In[1]:= <<anus
< 1272840231 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GConf Error: Failed to contact configuration server; some possible causes are that you need to enable TCP/IP networking for ORBit, or you have stale NFS locks due to a system crash. See http://projects.gnome.org/gconf/ for information. (Details -  1: Not running within active session)
< 1272840231 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GConf Error: Failed to contact configuration server; some possible causes are that you need to enable TCP/IP networking for ORBit, or you have stale NFS locks due to a system crash. See http://projects.gnome.org/gconf/ for information. (Details -  1: Not running within active session)
< 1272840232 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get::noopen: Cannot open anus.
< 1272840234 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out[1]= $Failed
< 1272840236 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In[2]:= GConf Error: Failed to contact configuration server; some possible causes are that you need to enable TCP/IP networking for ORBit, or you have stale NFS locks due to a system crash. See http://projects.gnome.org/gconf/ for information. (Details -  1: Not running within active session)
< 1272840242 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have zero idea why reading a file involves GConf somehow.
< 1272840244 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:43 < fizzie> Get::noopen: Cannot open anus.
< 1272840273 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes, the goatse failure
< 1272840313 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The brow level of this channel has plummeted.
< 1272840334 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"He Has No Anus"
< 1272840353 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^reference to a piece of music "He Has No Face", so obscure that Google isn't finding iot
< 1272840384 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe not
< 1272840387 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm looking for a name for my regexp compiler
< 1272840392 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fred.
< 1272840401 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the brow level :D
< 1272840401 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Found it
< 1272840406 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Simian
< 1272840416 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: So what is the algorithm?
< 1272840419 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's actually below the eyes.
< 1272840423 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's what I said.
< 1272840424 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: okay try this
< 1272840424 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inverse[3]
< 1272840428 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frecle
< 1272840433 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll pastebin it.
< 1272840439 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://modarchive.org/index.php?request=view_by_moduleid&query=73115
< 1272840449 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That may or may not be it
< 1272840458 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fast Regular Expression CompiLEr ;]
< 1272840460 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/JrmRTyPf
< 1272840460 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RECLE
< 1272840462 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's it LD
< 1272840463 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FRECLE
< 1272840463 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1272840463 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically.
< 1272840479 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It came with Popcap's downloadable Alchemy
< 1272840490 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't know if it goes into a declarative language easily.
< 1272840497 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: Inverse::matsq: Argument 3 at position 1 is not a non-empty square matrix.
< 1272840525 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :InverseFunction[x^2==p*o*o*p, x]
< 1272840540 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                         2     2  2
< 1272840541 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out[4]= InverseFunction[x  == o  p , x]
< 1272840573 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love this tune
< 1272840592 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#
< 1272840593 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        Find largest m such that n/2^m is an integer (easy with a loop and modulo)
< 1272840597 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the bit that is not working so much :-)
< 1272840603 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hang on.
< 1272840611 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try it in an imperative language.
< 1272840614 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: InverseFunction[#&]
< 1272840621 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Phantom_Hoover
< 1272840627 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we are going for ((2^u) * ((2*v) + 1)) - 1
< 1272840635 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: Out[7]= #1 &
< 1272840636 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is quite different from yours!
< 1272840640 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: good
< 1272840651 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: Not really.
< 1272840656 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: You have succesfully inverted the identity function.
< 1272840663 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yayyy
< 1272840663 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: InverseFunction[((2^#1)*((2*#2)+1))-1&]
< 1272840667 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am a real mathematician now
< 1272840675 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                         #1
< 1272840675 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out[8]= InverseFunction[2   (2 #2 + 1) - 1 & ]
< 1272840683 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Die computer die
< 1272840688 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Put that in please)
< 1272840698 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out[9]= computer die Die
< 1272840716 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how it sorts those words.
< 1272840738 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Solve[c*o*m*p*u*t*e*r^p*o*o*p == d*i*e]
< 1272840773 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants an s3m player for Android
< 1272840794 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1272840831 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: That is far too long to paste: http://zem.fi/~fis/foo00001.txt if you want to fetch a plaintext file.
< 1272840841 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1272840843 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It hates me
< 1272840864 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how it turned my inane childishness into a nice division with roots and logs.
< 1272840900 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks slightly Latiny.
< 1272840967 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cemoprtu dei!
< 1272840996 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Anyway, do you think you can revise the algorithm for ((2^u) * ((2*v) + 1)) - 1?
< 1272841002 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1272841007 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm doing it now.
< 1272841013 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay
< 1272841107 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskelling it is still up to you. I'm going to try it in Python, then Lisp.
< 1272841141 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just want the abstract algorithm.
< 1272841144 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since the formula changed.
< 1272841147 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As I keep trying to tel you :p
< 1272841149 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*tell
< 1272841152 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*:P
< 1272841159 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You mean it doesn't play modules? How horrid. On maemo that's just "apt-get install mod-support"; it pulls in gstreamer0.10-modplug and libmodplug0c2 and supports .mod, .s3m, .it, .xm and whatevers.
< 1272841206 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A separate "s3m player" sounds a bad idea anyway, surely that sort of stuff should integrate with the other media codecs the device has. I assume you can add new codecs there somehow?
< 1272841236 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I don't know how
< 1272841240 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: First, you need to add one to n at the start.
< 1272841271 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then? Presumably the equations for u and v differ.
< 1272841274 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then u=m
< 1272841278 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some open system that is if you can't stick in new codecs.
< 1272841302 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: adu
< 1272841326 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And v=(n/2^m-1)/2 (where n is f(u, v)+1)
< 1272841347 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's some instructions on how to compile libmodplug with Android's NDK, but that's geared for someone who wants to use mod music in an app of his.
< 1272841356 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to work for u=2 and v=3, both ways.
< 1272841372 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh find LARGEST m
< 1272841375 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's even harder...
< 1272841383 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do we disprove that there can't be a larger m that's an int
< 1272841383 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Haskell?
< 1272841391 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or in general?
< 1272841391 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(With a Java thread to pull actually play sound, blegh.)
< 1272841397 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And v=(n/2^m-1)/2 (where n is f(u, v)+1)
< 1272841402 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if we've added one to the start
< 1272841404 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's n'
< 1272841406 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's n'/2
< 1272841412 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1272841419 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm confusing myself now.
< 1272841434 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: just gimme your actual code :P
< 1272841438 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the mod thing
< 1272841438 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, to find m you just iterate and check the mod.
< 1272841455 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I can't, because I'm writing it now.
< 1272841491 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok :P
< 1272841655 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Largest m such that n/2^m is an integer? Do you really need to bother with modulo? Just iterate and do /2 to n as long as it stays even, and count how many times you did that?
< 1272841677 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, and I use mod to check if n is even.
< 1272841687 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :def findm(n):
< 1272841689 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :	m = 0
< 1272841691 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :	while (n%2==0):
< 1272841693 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :		n /= 2
< 1272841695 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :		m += 1
< 1272841697 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :	return m
< 1272841706 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python, indentation not included.
< 1272841727 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :certainly seemed included to me
< 1272841734 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh?
< 1272841739 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit cheapo indentation, just one space.
< 1272841743 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You got the special offer.
< 1272841745 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: null
< 1272841770 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It was a tab; your client must have converted
< 1272841794 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really? I thought x-chat passed those straight through. Well, maybe not.
< 1272841806 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(seriously, tabs in Python? yurk)
< 1272841808 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, here in irssi it looks like the inverted-I.
< 1272841816 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This statement is sometimes used to illustrate the fact that the rational numbers are countable while reals are not. It is obviously true. Considering that obviously true statements in probability theory have a nasty habit of being false there is a point in proving it."
< 1272841832 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Phantom_Hoover>   n /= 2
< 1272841837 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so integer division works here?
< 1272841853 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't divide when n isn't even.
< 1272841858 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1272841863 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while n%2==0
< 1272841871 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically we're considering n to be one of [0..]
< 1272841878 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aah i see
< 1272841901 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically we construct [n, n/2, n/2/2, ..., x] such that x is divisible by two
< 1272841904 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then we take its length
< 1272841944 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no, not boundary conditions.
< 1272841945 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hallo
< 1272841969 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : v=(n'/2^m-1)/2           <- ((n')/(2^(m-1)))/2?
< 1272841985 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(n'/2)^(m-1)/2?
< 1272842015 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For a fixed-bit number, I'm sure someone's done a bit-twiddling hack to do that in O(1). I would even guess it involves n^(n-1) and first-set-bit counting.
< 1272842097 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got both functions in Python.
< 1272842148 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does v parse?
< 1272842164 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :v = (n/2**m-1)/2
< 1272842172 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once you know m, it's trivial.
< 1272842201 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose I should prove that it's bijective, but it's late.
< 1272842218 0 :fax!~none@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272842256 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works for all n < 10
< 1272842317 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :god
< 1272842319 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean the operators :||
< 1272842395 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/6FMy5PK0 is my code.
< 1272842465 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My computer makes me want to scream right now
< 1272842488 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-198.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272842489 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1272842512 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1272842519 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi.
< 1272842539 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an obsolete piece of technology!
< 1272842563 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: this code injects NxN into N?
< 1272842577 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bijects.
< 1272842586 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It goes both ways.
< 1272842588 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really
< 1272842603 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Much pain went into it.
< 1272842639 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you get 5?
< 1272842645 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tup2n(?,?) = 5?
< 1272842645 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5?
< 1272842666 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1, 1)
< 1272842686 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1272842698 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did give the inverse function.
< 1272842727 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Adding 4 and 1?
< 1272842744 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :47
< 1272842753 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't see how this is a bijection if it's got 2^u in it, but it does seem to be
< 1272842776 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's because of unique factorisation.
< 1272842796 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2n+1 can't be even if n is an integer.
< 1272842799 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1272842806 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-198.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272842823 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So u is the exponent of the 2.
< 1272842835 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :v is a little more complex.
< 1272842855 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow that is really clever
< 1272842864 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I stole the injection of NxN to N from Google, but I did the inverse myself.
< 1272842879 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not that good.
< 1272842894 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know a much simpler way to find a bijection between N and NxN
< 1272842901 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What?
< 1272842908 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this is much more clever
< 1272842964 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the simpler way?
< 1272842995 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This started as an attempt to biject the natural numbers and the valid Brainfuck programs, BtW.
< 1272843002 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which i am finishing now
< 1272843005 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :take the sequence {1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,...}
< 1272843018 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the finite integral of f(n) = n is {1,3,6,10,15,...}
< 1272843022 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :triangular numbers
< 1272843031 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :call that function T(n)
< 1272843035 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__ found a neat way of flattening a valid BF program into a list of naturals.
< 1272843061 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So then we needed to fold that into a single natural, which requires a bijection.
< 1272843072 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I ask again,
< 1272843072 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(n/2**m-1)/2
< 1272843073 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this
< 1272843078 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1272843082 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(n/(2**(m-1)))/2
< 1272843082 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is v.
< 1272843085 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something else
< 1272843091 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am asking about parenthesisation dammit
< 1272843095 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell has different ops
< 1272843104 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please fully parenize it
< 1272843117 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know! Hang on, I'll try.
< 1272843160 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My computer's acting deas
< 1272843168 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*deas
< 1272843178 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*dead
< 1272843230 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: (n/2**m-1)/2
< 1272843238 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1272843241 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For Haskell.
< 1272843246 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, because it has to be div.
< 1272843252 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Div?
< 1272843255 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1272843259 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you please fully, fully, parenise, the /python/ expression
< 1272843265 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i can /easily/ translate it to hs
< 1272843276 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That *was* the HS expression.
< 1272843284 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's worng.
< 1272843285 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*wrong
< 1272843289 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it must be div.
< 1272843305 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now please paren the Python one because it's the only way I'm going to be able to put this in the Haskell source.
< 1272843319 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Paren it for precedence?
< 1272843340 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((n/(2**m))-1)/2
< 1272843358 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank you! <3
< 1272843364 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is div?
< 1272843382 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Division on bignums.
< 1272843387 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :division on integers
< 1272843389 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not floats etc
< 1272843390 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the right operator
< 1272843419 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: The function should never give floats, but it's probably the type system, right?
< 1272843436 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude> :t (/)
< 1272843436 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(/) :: (Fractional a) => a -> a -> a
< 1272843437 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude> :t div
< 1272843437 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :div :: (Integral a) => a -> a -> a
< 1272843445 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK.
< 1272843450 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> biFro (biTo (2,4))
< 1272843451 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(2,3)
< 1272843458 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consistent off-by-one.
< 1272843476 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fenceposts.
< 1272843481 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate them.
< 1272843484 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yar
< 1272843508 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems easy to fix
< 1272843518 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> fmap biFro [0..10]
< 1272843519 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[(0,0),(1,0),(0,1),(2,0),(0,2),(1,1),(0,3),(3,0),(0,4),(1,2),(0,5)]
< 1272843527 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weird-ass mapping.
< 1272843531 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weird ass-mapping.
< 1272843537 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it *works*.
< 1272843596 0 :nooga!~nooga@093105098174.pila.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272843606 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: I assume it's biFro with the fencepost.
< 1272843620 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1272843631 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I just need to write the flattener
< 1272843633 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's done
< 1272843642 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the fencepost fixed?
< 1272843702 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> decrush . crush $ [1,2,3]
< 1272843702 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[1,2,3]
< 1272843703 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1272843715 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :,[.,] = 134184943
< 1272843720 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool.
< 1272843732 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now to write it to a file...
< 1272843744 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh I can do all that.
< 1272843749 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did you encode ,[.,] into tuples again?
< 1272843750 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> fmap decrush [0..20]
< 1272843750 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[],[1],[0,1],[2],[0,0,1],[1,1],[0,2],[3],[0,0,0,1],[1,0,1],[0,1,1],[2,1],[0,0,2],[1,2],[0,3],[4],[0,0,0,0,1],[1,0,0,1],[0,1,0,1],[2,0,1],[0,0,1,1]]
< 1272843751 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonderful.
< 1272843763 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: make the non-loop instructions6 0-
< 1272843765 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*0-6
< 1272843766 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then
< 1272843771 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :loop :: [Integer] -> [Integer]
< 1272843771 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :loop = map (6 +)
< 1272843775 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo = [input] ++ loop [input, output]
< 1272843781 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo == [4,10,11]
< 1272843785 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does it give for "+"?
< 1272843793 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1
< 1272843795 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see.  that is wrong.
< 1272843808 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: that encoding _deletes_ all ][ sequences
< 1272843816 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Shit.
< 1272843821 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly I need one extra; nop
< 1272843824 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*facepalm*
< 1272843833 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me suggest instead: loop :: [Integer] -> Integer
< 1272843834 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so ][ becomes nop
< 1272843841 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh good idea
< 1272843848 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crush the entire thing
< 1272843852 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and add 6
< 1272843855 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1272843861 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is that?
< 1272843863 0 :hiato!~fdulu@41-132-16-47.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272843883 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> crush foo
< 1272843884 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2808895523222368605827039360607851146278089029597354019897345018089573059460952548948569958162617750330001779372990521213418590137725259726450741103741783193402623334763523207442222181269470220616454421126328215138096104411600982523029892352200425580677351729446660909999175717788745567263052442650378502127
< 1272843885 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: lol
< 1272843901 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: now i must tell you, there is one remaining issue
< 1272843902 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: The whole mess? An attempt at making a bijective mapping between the naturals and the valid BF programs.
< 1272843905 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :decrush is NOT int -> bf prog
< 1272843912 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn.
< 1272843916 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait it is!
< 1272843921 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since every integer is now a valid loop!
< 1272843927 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :W00t!
< 1272843933 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am so happy I am going to write [Integer] -> String prettyprinter now
< 1272843939 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we can look at the ordering of the bf programs
< 1272843941 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is beautiful
< 1272843944 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the best work i have ever done
< 1272843955 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I helped!
< 1272843970 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's the best thing I have been involved in...
< 1272843973 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool!
< 1272843978 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I see the code?
< 1272844018 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What shall we call it?
< 1272844020 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wish I could have helped :-[
< 1272844028 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: playing mafia?
< 1272844045 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brainmap?
< 1272844048 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too boring.
< 1272844055 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainsquish
< 1272844074 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's more than a compression algorithm.
< 1272844076 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Er, it doesn't /quite/ work yet.
< 1272844082 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awww.
< 1272844083 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that's hwy!
< 1272844084 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*why
< 1272844085 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nm
< 1272844094 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now it does
< 1272844108 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^
< 1272844116 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: bf to int?
< 1272844128 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nat, actually.
< 1272844130 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and back again
< 1272844132 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, nat
< 1272844139 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every nat to a program; every program to a nat.
< 1272844142 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Valid BF, too.
< 1272844143 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who wants to see the first 100 bf programs?
< 1272844147 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Me!
< 1272844152 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the code!
< 1272844159 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Programs first -- then code!
< 1272844167 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay!
< 1272844173 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/942858.txt?key=jan8h4duifdooaap617mg
< 1272844177 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who
< 1272844181 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chaos, it looks like. I bet if fizzie did it in a table it'd show coherency.
< 1272844181 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, so is it every nat to valid bf?
< 1272844183 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But linearly...
< 1272844184 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow
< 1272844185 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato: yep
< 1272844190 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice
< 1272844191 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ummmm
< 1272844192 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY?
< 1272844193 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we've successfully well-ordered the bf programs
< 1272844199 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use binary for fucks sake
< 1272844200 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: To Show It Could Be Done.
< 1272844209 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: aha but
< 1272844210 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: Binary doesn't work.
< 1272844213 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then not every natural is a valid prog
< 1272844214 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :consider +[
< 1272844215 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in Haskell I see
< 1272844216 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or +]
< 1272844216 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants his computer to work
< 1272844218 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the challenge
< 1272844224 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lame and trivial
< 1272844231 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: SILENCE!
< 1272844246 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: it was /not/ trivial; and fuck off.
< 1272844251 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: what does it matter, you don't listen to me even if I am saying something
< 1272844253 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: apparently your upload does not exist
< 1272844255 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's got a 1:1 mapping from Brainfuck to the naturals. Because he felt like it.
< 1272844260 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I'm going to write a parser now
< 1272844261 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__ lol okay maybe not for you
< 1272844263 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then a CLI interface
< 1272844270 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: Peanuts!
< 1272844280 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Useless, sure. But not quite the same as just "using binary".
< 1272844282 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: you know what? you're a huge asshole who just spends all of their time calling other people cunts
< 1272844283 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, go away.
< 1272844288 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you can't really parse it without translating it.
< 1272844289 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :parser tiem nao
< 1272844293 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: fuck you
< 1272844293 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easy
< 1272844296 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: You're a cunt
< 1272844299 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
< 1272844301 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: yes; that was the sentiment i was trying to express
< 1272844303 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: I never said that about anyone
< 1272844306 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUP!
< 1272844307 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :orly.
< 1272844313 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know for a fact that's false sooo
< 1272844324 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CANIPLEASEHAVETHECODEBEFOREYOUHAVEAFLAMEWAR?
< 1272844332 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: you just made it up, grep everything I said today if your brain can't do it
< 1272844345 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which wouldn't suprise me
< 1272844345 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not today sure...
< 1272844354 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway this is boring; you are boring; and also a dick; so I'm not talking to you any more.
< 1272844364 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay!
< 1272844366 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION feels like
< 1272844374 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops.
< 1272844379 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about a mapping to all bf programs that don't have things like +-
< 1272844392 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: Madness.
< 1272844398 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol @ alise getting all upset because he thought his trivial program was difficult to write
< 1272844411 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want, fine, but it's hard to objectively define a notrivial program.
< 1272844412 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pathetic.
< 1272844432 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't think it was difficult
< 1272844438 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just thought it was beautiful.
< 1272844452 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's completely trivial
< 1272844453 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I *please* have the code?
< 1272844458 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i'm adding a parser!!
< 1272844461 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sheesh and people have called /me/ the negative influence in this place
< 1272844464 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: Shut up, all right.
< 1272844476 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grown-ups are doing things.
< 1272844485 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1272844498 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"grown ups" spending your time fucking about wanking with brainfuck programming
< 1272844501 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh. Stuck in an ego clash.
< 1272844508 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION runs.
< 1272844517 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A parser for bf? I wrote one of those
< 1272844520 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :implying that grown ups have time for this shit
< 1272844529 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the funniest thing I've ever heard: HAHAHAHAHA
< 1272844536 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: Oh, no, you're one of *those* people.
< 1272844542 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: so here's an idea
< 1272844549 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you are not interested in what we are talking
< 1272844553 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could firstly
< 1272844553 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I was perfectly fine until you completely ignored me
< 1272844554 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHUT
< 1272844555 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE
< 1272844555 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK
< 1272844556 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UP
< 1272844557 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and secondly
< 1272844558 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GET
< 1272844560 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE
< 1272844562 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK
< 1272844563 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OUT
< 1272844566 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then both our problems will be solved.
< 1272844579 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fax, this is #esoteric. #productive-stuff-only is that way --->
< 1272844580 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure is /ignore alise__ in here
< 1272844594 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure is mentally ignoring fax in here.
< 1272844619 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ok, just gonna add a tiny little cli to it
< 1272844621 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we're done
< 1272844699 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: underflow
< 1272844710 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what will we call it?
< 1272844719 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants to see it too, especially since he has no idea what thhe algorithm is
< 1272844743 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: While we're here, I might as well explain.
< 1272844756 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: did you get that?
< 1272844757 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should call it Bifro.
< 1272844763 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :earlier you asked me to explain something
< 1272844765 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why?
< 1272844770 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I started... then you just talked over me
< 1272844774 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because one of my functions is named that, and it makes me think of afro
< 1272844783 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ignore fax he has serious emotional issues when people "ignore" him
< 1272844799 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too much toner
< 1272844830 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: so you are black all over now?
< 1272844861 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION likes making obvious conclusions
< 1272844863 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm making circuit boards for my modem and 8088 computer
< 1272844888 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My laptop's receiving power now!
< 1272844892 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, we just need to find interesting patterns in the results.
< 1272844893 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using chalk paper and laserjet
< 1272844917 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's an obvious pattern in the lengths.
< 1272844961 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, bifrocation; too good a coincidence
< 1272844964 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it splits bf into two parts? sorta?
< 1272844990 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, it's midnight and I have to revise tomorrow. Perhaps you could put the code on the wiki?
< 1272845009 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Phantom_Hoover
< 1272845039 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION recalls a nice bitbased algorithm for [Integer] -> Integer
< 1272845067 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the important thing was that all nats were covered
< 1272845080 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, convertFromBinary . intercalate "1" . map convertToFibonacciBase
< 1272845080 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ echo ',[.,]' | ./bifro encode | ./bifro decode
< 1272845081 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :,[.,]
< 1272845090 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ echo 123456789 | ./bifro decode | ./bifro encode
< 1272845091 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :123456789
< 1272845092 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er [Nat] -> Nat
< 1272845106 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1272845107 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this covers all Nats, or nearly so
< 1272845119 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/942869.txt?key=vvwlyvvpwhxulduzur3q
< 1272845122 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :behold.
< 1272845124 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i probably messed up the exact definition
< 1272845134 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__ why are you so horrible to me
< 1272845142 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: because you were a jerk to me.
< 1272845147 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__ what did I do?
< 1272845167 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__ is generally horrible
< 1272845174 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well we were just talking about a program and you started going all on about how it's trivial and pointless for no reason... also, you do your fair share of ignoring /me/
< 1272845177 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than like teach you everything I know about dependent types
< 1272845208 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should learn dependent types at some point.
< 1272845212 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:05 < alise__> well we were just talking about a program and you started going all on about how it's trivial and pointless for no reason... also, you do your fair share of  ignoring /me/
< 1272845213 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe he's adapting your methods, alise__ ? :>>
< 1272845244 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fax> WHY? <fax> just use binary for fucks sake <fax> lame and trivial <fax> alise__ lol okay maybe not for you <fax> alise__: fuck you <fax> alise__: You're a cunt <fax> lol @ alise getting all upset because he thought his trivial program was difficult to write
< 1272845271 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop fabricating IRC logs
< 1272845275 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we all know that didn't happen
< 1272845280 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... ...
< 1272845284 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1272845284 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just said it right now.
< 1272845285 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1272845290 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I did not
< 1272845292 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow so fax has some /serious/ denial issues.
< 1272845293 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're doing this again
< 1272845298 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: please, look it up on tunes.org
< 1272845303 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you did this just a min ago and now you are doing it /again/
< 1272845304 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the lines are there plain as day i forged not a single one
< 1272845317 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously if you cannot believe that you wrote those lines -- which you DID --
< 1272845322 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's really funny alise good trick what are you trying to gett hough
< 1272845326 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you have serious issues
< 1272845336 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: i am considering banning you now
< 1272845346 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guys I think fax might actually be legitimately insane... I don't think he's trolling he's acted weirdly like this before
< 1272845393 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers whether feeding mandelbrot.b to his program is a good idea
< 1272845393 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I will be missing out on Phantom_hoover ignoring me and alise flipping out at me and telling me to fuck off because I said a program was trivla
< 1272845407 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think fax is joking
< 1272845414 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: no, i wish he was though
< 1272845426 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know why people are being so nasty to me
< 1272845450 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: well at the moment you are either joking or insane.
< 1272845469 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fax: phantom_hoover left
< 1272845476 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even encoding http://esoteric.sange.fi/brainfuck/bf-source/prog/rot13.bf hangs my program
< 1272845483 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :these are some /seriously/ large numbers
< 1272845485 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hard to tell, alise__ isn't exactly unbiased in her judgements
< 1272845488 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__, welcome to haskell programming
< 1272845491 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i'm not sure your recursive-crushing was such a good idea
< 1272845501 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: of course, 2^n isn't very effective
< 1272845504 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: you think it might be the unimaginably huge growth in numbers instead?
< 1272845506 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: Glee.
< 1272845526 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, it's more fun for number -> program
< 1272845542 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: I'd be very amused if your encoding method ended up being a Brainfuck compression program. :P
< 1272845549 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually.
< 1272845553 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ echo 1234567891011121314151617181920 | ./bifro decode
< 1272845553 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :----->-->+++--+---[<][]++--<++----,-+[+]-++<--+++-.
< 1272845557 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sure does produce useless programs
< 1272845558 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... It kinda *is*.
< 1272845573 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it compresses it into an integer many many times bigger than the program.
< 1272845574 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1272845576 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's only being asked to produce valid ones. Not useful ones.
< 1272845591 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it really shies away from loops, since the numbers are so big
< 1272845594 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gimme a big prime guys
< 1272845594 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"1234567891011121314151617181920" is smaller than "----->-->+++--+---[<][]++--<++----,-+[+]-++<--+++-.".
< 1272845610 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know it is funny, because we are almost deserialising for num->prog
< 1272845611 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1234567891011121314151617181920 <-- base 10
< 1272845614 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yeah but
< 1272845616 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[dfgdfg]
< 1272845619 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instantly EXPLODES your program
< 1272845624 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with multiple nested serialisations
< 1272845626 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er
< 1272845626 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :----->-->+++--+---[<][]++--<++----,-+[+]-++<--+++-. <-- base 7 (or something)
< 1272845629 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know it is funny, because we are almost factorising for num->prog
< 1272845637 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: no because of balanced loops
< 1272845641 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the whole reason I did this
< 1272845659 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oooh! Oooh!
< 1272845660 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :34790! â’ 1
< 1272845666 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: incidentally i think if the order of tuples were reversed, then even programs without loops would get enormous
< 1272845667 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jane@jane-desktop:~/code$ echo 1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111 | ./bifro decode
< 1272845667 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>-->-->-->-->-->-->-->+.+--<---------+--+>-<.<<++<+<----<+,++--->>+-+>--<
< 1272845667 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jane@jane-desktop:~/code$ echo 1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111112 | ./bifro decode
< 1272845667 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :---+->-->-->-->-->-->-->+.+--<---------+--+>-<.<<++<+<----<+,++--->>+-+>--<
< 1272845671 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, it... prepended to the start.
< 1272845685 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: no :P
< 1272845703 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ echo '[[[[]]]]' | ./bifro encode
< 1272845704 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[hang]
< 1272845708 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_prime
< 1272845709 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the parser is broken???
< 1272845711 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's only the head of a cons that is so enormously encoded
< 1272845717 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait lol
< 1272845720 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jane@jane-desktop:~/code$ echo '[]' | ./bifro encode
< 1272845721 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :63
< 1272845721 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jane@jane-desktop:~/code$ echo '[[]]' | ./bifro encode
< 1272845721 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :590295810358705651711
< 1272845721 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :amazing
< 1272845730 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then one more breaks it
< 1272845736 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the most hideously inefficient numbering system ever
< 1272845743 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Glee.
< 1272845752 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ah you are right.
< 1272845755 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr
< 1272845759 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the bijection is imperfect
< 1272845765 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- and having nested crushed loops is imperfect too
< 1272845767 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but dammit, I did it
< 1272845772 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and whenever we talk about a brainfuck program
< 1272845778 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can just say, instead of pastebinning
< 1272845781 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's #xkcd in the list
< 1272845815 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish people would be nicer to me
< 1272845844 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish you would be nicer to people.
< 1272845856 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay
< 1272845893 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: the triangular N x N <-> N encoding is much more balanced, i should think
< 1272845901 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: does it cover all nats?
< 1272845905 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's very important we cover all nats :P
< 1272845917 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, if you get the off-by-one shifts right...
< 1272845919 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is what i was talking about earlier
< 1272845925 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but phantom_hoover didn't want to hear it
< 1272845942 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i'm all ears.
< 1272845943 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: it was mentioned (credited somewhat to you) even before you arrived
< 1272845950 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, i did credit it to you.
< 1272845953 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiple times
< 1272845962 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for some reason they didn't like it.  hard to reverse was it?
< 1272845963 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not due to me
< 1272845971 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just re-explained it in terms of finite-calculus
< 1272846000 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :needs a square root approximation, is the problem...
< 1272846002 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah
< 1272846008 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/but/
< 1272846015 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suspect that sqrt(n) may have been integer for all relevant ns
< 1272846026 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um no
< 1272846050 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need a square root approximation to find one of the tuple coordinates
< 1272846052 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc
< 1272846073 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/approximation/floor/
< 1272846090 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sqrt floor should always be right in haskell methinks.
< 1272846106 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except it's not bignum compatible
< 1272846126 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well without some hackage probably
< 1272846170 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1272846206 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: You have still created a compression scheme for Brainfuck. However, this compression scheme is not very *useful*, as it only appears to actually compress a large number of fairly stupid programs.
< 1272846221 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone in the world is horrible
< 1272846226 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually. Think you could try running it on a "Hello, world!" program without any loops?
< 1272846239 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: try reversing the tuple order and see what programs you get _then_ :D
< 1272846251 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hell no
< 1272846255 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it'd not be too big
< 1272846257 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i bet then loops would be _over_-represented
< 1272846258 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :)
< 1272846277 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ssh, we're about to make a publication.
< 1272846279 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: just to test for fun of course
< 1272846296 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats a publication
< 1272846322 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: not even gonna THINK about it :D
< 1272846327 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: THOU SHALT SEE
< 1272846349 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: i meant to run it in the Integer -> Program direction, fwiw
< 1272846357 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*slow pastie is slow*
< 1272846369 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1272846371 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ah.
< 1272846371 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wdat
< 1272846373 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok then
< 1272846375 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is going on
< 1272846378 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your paste cannot be larger than 100 kb. Sorry.
< 1272846379 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well
< 1272846382 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Bifro Society of the United Kingdom are pleased to announce their latest
< 1272846382 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :research result: the first 10002 brainfuck programs, in order.
< 1272846385 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess nobody will miss it
< 1272846393 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bifro?
< 1272846411 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is 'in order' about them
< 1272846426 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're the decodings of 0,1,2,etc
< 1272846427 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1272846431 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and bifro is the name of my program
< 1272846435 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1272846439 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool
< 1272846448 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: lol, with that modification
< 1272846461 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"1" becomes an infinite amount of -s
< 1272846463 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I shit you not
< 1272846472 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :decrush :: Integer -> [Integer]
< 1272846473 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :decrush 0 = []
< 1272846473 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :decrush n = let (xsn,x) = biFro n in x : decrush xsn
< 1272846473 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--decrush n = let (x,xsn) = biFro n in x : decrush xsn
< 1272846474 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um that's impossible
< 1272846479 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Precisely
< 1272846486 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 becomes the rather more mundane +
< 1272846508 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait maybe not
< 1272846513 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 -+; 4 <; 5 +(infinite -s)
< 1272846522 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6 >
< 1272846527 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7 --+
< 1272846532 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :100 [[[+]]]
< 1272846538 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes it must be
< 1272846544 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[[[.-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------...
< 1272846546 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ 1000
< 1272846548 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :write a program that deletes everything on your computer
< 1272846569 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION deletes fax
< 1272846576 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm all ears for the triangular thing
< 1272846772 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is biFro 1 == (0,1) ?
< 1272846786 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or (1,1)
< 1272846795 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Earbuds aren't supposed to hurt, are they?
< 1272846803 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm i forget
< 1272846808 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait it cannot be (1,1) then it would have been infinite before
< 1272846815 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because these hurt.
< 1272846844 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1,0)
< 1272846852 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually
< 1272846852 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU ARE EXTREMELY INCORRECT AT EVERYTHING
< 1272846859 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ic
< 1272846863 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :biFro 0 = (0,0)
< 1272846884 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well in that case wtf do you get infinite -s?
< 1272846886 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it just goes everywhere:
< 1272846892 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> map biFro [0..20]
< 1272846893 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[(0,0),(1,0),(0,1),(2,0),(0,2),(1,1),(0,3),(3,0),(0,4),(1,2),(0,5),(2,1),(0,6),(1,3),(0,7),(4,0),(0,8),(1,4),(0,9),(2,2),(0,10)]
< 1272846906 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: obvious
< 1272846908 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :decrush n = let (x,xsn) = biFro n in x : decrush xsn
< 1272846911 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here we don't decrease on x
< 1272846917 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the secret is that recursing biFro on x
< 1272846921 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't smallify x
< 1272846926 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the recursion never reaches a base case
< 1272846931 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. biFro is biased towards latters
< 1272846934 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess what I wrote today
< 1272846935 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is just a hunch
< 1272846946 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like maybe biFro stays constant, or oscillates, or grows
< 1272846946 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A program that expresses any number as the sum of two squares mod p
< 1272846949 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um wait
< 1272846965 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trolltastic insults?
< 1272846966 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :biFro :: Integer -> (Integer,Integer)
< 1272846967 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :biFro n = (m, (((n `div` (2^m)) - 1) `div` 2) + 1)
< 1272846968 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  where n' = n + 1
< 1272846968 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        m = toInteger . length . takeWhile (\n'' -> mod n'' 2 == 0) $ iterate (`div` 2) n'
< 1272846970 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"hope this helps"
< 1272846985 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1 what did you just say
< 1272846986 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: if you use 0 for nil, the bifro should be a bijection between [1..] and [0..] x [0..]
< 1272846994 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*then
< 1272847005 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you are right
< 1272847013 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crush :: [Integer] -> Integer
< 1272847013 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crush [] = 0
< 1272847014 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crush (x:xs) = biTo (x, crush xs)
< 1272847017 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is how it works so umm
< 1272847022 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eventually we get to biTo (something, 0)
< 1272847036 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which can be a bit big.
< 1272847037 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> biTo (1000, 0)
< 1272847037 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10715086071862673209484250490600018105614048117055336074437503883703510511249361224931983788156958581275946729175531468251871452856923140435984577574698574803934567774824230985421074605062371141877954182153046474983581941267398767559165543946077062914571196477686542167660429831652624386837205668069375
< 1272847061 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> map (\n -> biTo (n, 0)) [0..20]
< 1272847062 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[0,1,3,7,15,31,63,127,255,511,1023,2047,4095,8191,16383,32767,65535,131071,262143,524287,1048575]
< 1272847069 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every time you think you've figured out the sequence, it fucks with you
< 1272847079 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait
< 1272847082 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's powers of two minus one
< 1272847085 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's so stupid i love it
< 1272847114 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(0,n) is multiples of two
< 1272847120 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this thing contains the secrets of the universe
< 1272847129 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1,n is odd numbers
< 1272847150 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, then it keeps getting graduall more spaced apart, i think
< 1272847196 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahahah.
< 1272847215 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*gradually
< 1272847235 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> map (\n -> biTo (n, 1)) [0..20]
< 1272847236 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[2,5,11,23,47,95,191,383,767,1535,3071,6143,12287,24575,49151,98303,196607,393215,786431,1572863,3145727]
< 1272847238 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the retarded theme continues
< 1272847249 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> map (\n -> biTo (n, n)) [0..20]
< 1272847249 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[0,5,19,55,143,351,831,1919,4351,9727,21503,47103,102399,221183,475135,1015807,2162687,4587519,9699327,20447231,42991615]
< 1272847252 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is this i don't even
< 1272847264 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272847280 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would be fun if it was all and only primes
< 1272847323 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: and quite impossible to calculate efficiently.  not that this 2^n thing helps...
< 1272847340 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey biTo is constant time dude.
< 1272847347 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's that biFro you wanna look out for
< 1272847400 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was thinking more of "incredibly impressive and an incredible discovery"
< 1272847416 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo you shouldn't just sit back and throw insults at people that's actually really not cool
< 1272847434 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how's that triangular stuff oerjan
< 1272847443 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: an impossible discovery
< 1272847448 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's been proven that you can't do primes like that :P
< 1272847463 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's been mentioned several times, i don't remember it any better...
< 1272847464 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION isn't even sure what the algorithm is, so
< 1272847466 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't do primes like what?
< 1272847497 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or are you saying, can't do primes in polynomial time?
< 1272847519 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like there's no algebraic expression that generates primes and only primes.
< 1272847534 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is one that gives primes for alj positive values
< 1272847543 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the negative values are garbage though
< 1272847549 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: i don't think powers are included in that
< 1272847560 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's polynomials i've heard about
< 1272847565 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: then consider it proven by plot
< 1272847577 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: all primes, though?
< 1272847581 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1272847586 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa
< 1272847602 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not practical if you actually want to compute primes with it tohugh
< 1272847603 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so um how come we aren't discovering new primes in 0 time
< 1272847619 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it is hyperdimension and there is a lot of garbage
< 1272847625 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(negative values)
< 1272847656 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably most random parameters give either tiny or negative numbers...
< 1272847694 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, thought that by negatives you meant input, or something
< 1272847712 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh me too lol
< 1272847713 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo you should learn
< 1272847730 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to hold you tongue sometimes, and to speak other times
< 1272847757 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax
< 1272847761 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should learn
< 1272847764 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you are not a dispenser of zen koans
< 1272847769 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ready to enlighten the life of another
< 1272847778 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at their fine line'd wisdom
< 1272847791 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously that's very condescending.
< 1272847793 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm!
< 1272847807 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: we could use ternary!
< 1272847816 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yowzers! uh, why?
< 1272847834 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for less explosive list encoding?
< 1272847859 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about tertiary
< 1272847869 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or balanced becimal?
< 1272847882 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fromTernary . intercalate "2" . map toBinary
< 1272847886 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait
< 1272847889 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :becimal?
< 1272847892 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn initial 0s
< 1272847894 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: howso
< 1272847901 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about balanced binary coded negative phinary
< 1272847909 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that would be good
< 1272847911 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wth is that
< 1272847916 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: still need [[[nesting]]]
< 1272847920 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds PHINE.
< 1272847923 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::3
< 1272847944 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: status of finding the a brainfuck program called n which prints n
< 1272847948 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: well duh but this wouldn't be that much enlargement per level
< 1272847951 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1272847959 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :balanced ternary is with the -, 0, + thing i think
< 1272847960 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1272847967 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :binary coded decimal is just segregating bits of binary to work as decimal digits
< 1272847976 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it possible no quine exists?
< 1272847978 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's just like segregating bits of binary to use as negative phinary digits
< 1272847979 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems possible to me
< 1272847980 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder how to implement sets and set hashing in C
< 1272847982 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except there's negatives too
< 1272847992 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: ooh, interesting
< 1272847996 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it depends on the numbering...
< 1272847998 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: I think I'm the one here with the most right to dispense zen koans.
< 1272848007 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but my intuition leads me to believe that there are usually quines
< 1272848012 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean when in doubt add tons of +-s :P
< 1272848014 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously the numbering should make a special accountance so that 666 is a quine - or something
< 1272848022 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: no
< 1272848025 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As I know how to write "zen". :P
< 1272848026 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no 42
< 1272848070 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Xen koan
< 1272848074 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOUR SERVERS SHALL VIRTUAL SOMETHING SOMETHING
< 1272848078 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: a brainfuck program can obviously calculate the encoding.  i should think the usual quine-construction theorems apply
< 1272848091 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: now consider a BF program #n, outputting m such that BF program #m outputs n
< 1272848092 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They do.
< 1272848094 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IS YOUR MIND BLOWN YET
< 1272848108 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan - I don't see that working myself but that might be my problem
< 1272848114 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be a major *pain* to implement, but yes, the usual quine-construction theorems apply.
< 1272848140 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: why not?
< 1272848147 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have very strong, well-tested quiney wimey theorems
< 1272848158 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that let us construct any sort of ridiculous multi-polyglot-quine-chain
< 1272848167 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all this is is an additional function, plus more fluff in the code to get the number right
< 1272848169 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants/needs to read about these
< 1272848171 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the number is just an encoding of the source basically
< 1272848172 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let us consider the contrapositive,
< 1272848174 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so instead of matching source
< 1272848178 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we match this transformation on the source
< 1272848186 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The claim is that there is no computable numbering of brainfuck programs that avoids quines
< 1272848206 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, probably
< 1272848219 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wouldn't the digits just make a programming language?
< 1272848220 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that seems very likely
< 1272848229 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*turing-complete programming language?
< 1272848232 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :consider that all numberings are essentially a transformation on the source
< 1272848241 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that the source can already be considered to be in some arbitrary encoding
< 1272848247 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if it can be encoded/decoded
< 1272848247 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrome is using 215% cpu :D
< 1272848249 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then we can quine it.
< 1272848250 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay I see it now, quines do exist
< 1272848252 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: Yes, that is the fixed point theorem.
< 1272848258 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote <fax> okay I see it now, quines do exist
< 1272848260 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :156|<fax> okay I see it now, quines do exist
< 1272848261 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice out of context :D
< 1272848318 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is true for... Every TC language with sufficient IO capabilities to output the text of such a quine, I'm pretty sure.
< 1272848373 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this theorem effective enough that you can actually calculate this quine
< 1272848375 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eeh
< 1272848424 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: well we can certainly construct it with ingenuity, we've handled harder tasks before
< 1272848424 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote <fax> we all know that didn't happen
< 1272848430 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :157|<fax> we all know that didn't happen
< 1272848436 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we all know that didn't happen, oerjan
< 1272848441 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION whistles innocently
< 1272848448 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1272848449 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :29|IN AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE: <bsmntbombdood> there is plenty of room to get head twice at once
< 1272848451 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1272848452 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :46|<ehird> Or the brutal rape of the English language!  <pikhq> That wasn't rape. English is always willing.
< 1272848456 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1272848457 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23|<fizzie after embedding some of his department research into fungot> Finally I have found some actually useful purpose for it.
< 1272848460 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1272848461 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14|<reddit user "othermatt"> So what you're saying is that I shouldn't lick my iPhone but instead I should rub it on my eyes first and then lick my eyeballs?
< 1272848463 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what
< 1272848464 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1272848465 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :99|<coppro> things are more awesome when written by someone in here
< 1272848471 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: note alternate universe qualifier
< 1272848473 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1272848474 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :146|<Gregor> I don't know that I've ever heard apocalypi described in terms of depth ...
< 1272848477 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1272848478 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1272848480 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :72|<ehird> ignore me, i'm full of bullshit
< 1272848482 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1272848487 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was then THIS IS NOW
< 1272848487 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: No, but they're generally easy to write.
< 1272848488 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1272848490 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :117|<Sgeo> I'd imagine that it already has, and no one noticed
< 1272848491 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :153|* Warrigal refuses to say goodbye to Quas NaArt, as he is coming closer, not going farther.
< 1272848492 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1272848494 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :118|<apollo> Actually, he still looks like he'd rather eat her than have sex with her.
< 1272848499 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1272848500 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :103|<oklofok> i use dynamic indentation, i indent lines k times, if they are used O(n^k) times during a run of the program
< 1272848505 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1272848506 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :104|<AnMaster> I'm 100% of what sort of magic was involved in it
< 1272848510 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a thingy
< 1272848512 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1272848513 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :54|<lacota> I guess when you're immortal, mapping your fonts isn't necessary
< 1272848516 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yeah i know
< 1272848517 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1272848518 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :98|<fungot> ehird: every set can be well-ordered. corollary: every set s has the same diagram used from famous program talisman with fnord windows to cascade, someone i would never capitalize " i"
< 1272848526 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like that corollary, a lot
< 1272848539 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You pretty much just need a way of computing the source code of your program and a way of mapping your source code into your preferred numbering.
< 1272848541 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1272848543 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :78|<GregorR> ??? <GregorR> Are the cocks actually just implanted dildos? <GregorR> Or are there monster dildos and cocks? <GregorR> Or are both the dildos and cocks monster?
< 1272848549 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://normish.nomictools.com/sgeo/quotes.txt
< 1272848554 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1272848554 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow
< 1272848555 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13|* ehird has joined #lobby <Madelon> hmmm clean me
< 1272848560 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1272848561 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote fax
< 1272848561 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :61|<fizzie> Seconds. 30 of them. Did I forget the word?
< 1272848563 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :96|<fax> im the worst person in the world 140|<fax> oklopol geez what are you doing here <oklokok> ...i
< 1272848570 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it gets cut
< 1272848572 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grep http://normish.nomictools.com/sgeo/quotes.txt
< 1272848579 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :140|<fax> oklopol geez what are you doing here  <oklokok> ...i don't know :<  <oklokok> i actually ate until now, although i guess i also did other things...
< 1272848582 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night
< 1272848583 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :154|<fax> sekuoir: that's just gay sex   <sekuoir> I am learning though!
< 1272848590 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the stuff we've seen
< 1272848594 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1272848594 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__, what's with the spamminess
< 1272848595 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :151|<Miya> I perceived it so hard I actually went away :O
< 1272848601 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: boredom, going to bed soon, etc
< 1272848602 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote ehird
< 1272848603 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1272848605 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13|* ehird has joined #lobby <Madelon> hmmm clean me 24|<oerjan> ehird has gone insane, clearly. 30|<oerjan> In an alternate universe, ehird has taste 31|IN AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE: <oerjan> In an alternate universe, I would say In an alternate universe, ehird has taste 32|<ehird> so i can only conclude that it is flawed, or the
< 1272848605 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usual boring mess
< 1272848612 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote ehird
< 1272848614 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :42|<ais523> after all, what are DVD players for?
< 1272848614 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13|* ehird has joined #lobby <Madelon> hmmm clean me 24|<oerjan> ehird has gone insane, clearly. 30|<oerjan> In an alternate universe, ehird has taste 31|IN AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE: <oerjan> In an alternate universe, I would say In an alternate universe, ehird has taste 32|<ehird> so i can only conclude that it is flawed, or the
< 1272848622 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote Sgeo
< 1272848622 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote ais
< 1272848624 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :60|<Sgeo>
< 1272848632 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :42|<ais523> after all, what are DVD players for? 138|<ais523> so a.b.c.d.e.f.g.h.i.j.k.com might be self-relative, but a.b.c.d.e.f.g.h.i.j.k.l.com always means a.b.c.d.e.f.g.h.i.j.k.l.com.? 139|<ais523>
< 1272848634 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :60|<Sgeo> Mafia's addictin
< 1272848638 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote nooga
< 1272848638 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :76|<Sgeo_> I had an idea for an AskReddit, but I forgot
< 1272848639 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1272848642 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1272848642 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :89|<Sgeo> What else is there to vim besides editing commands?
< 1272848645 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :117|<Sgeo> I'd imagine that it already has, and no one noticed
< 1272848646 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's a round square copula
< 1272848649 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :120|<Sgeo|web> Where's the link to the log?  <lament> THERE'S NO LOG. YOUR REQUEST IS SUSPICIOUS AND HAS BEEN LOGGED.
< 1272848656 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :130|<virtuhird> Sgeo_: Gregorr: and someone could, by mistake, rewrite psox to be a weak erection if it is... A filename.
< 1272848673 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote virtu
< 1272848674 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :130|<virtuhird> Sgeo_: Gregorr: and someone could, by mistake, rewrite psox to be a weak erection if it is... A filename.
< 1272848679 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1272848680 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :117|<Sgeo> I'd imagine that it already has, and no one noticed
< 1272848682 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1272848683 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :46|<ehird> Or the brutal rape of the English language!  <pikhq> That wasn't rape. English is always willing.
< 1272848690 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yawn
< 1272848704 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 97
< 1272848705 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :97|<fungot> i am sad ( of course by analogy) :) smileys)
< 1272848719 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should rewrite PSOX to be a weak erection
< 1272848720 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise
< 1272848722 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes I think that bot has developed cogence.
< 1272848734 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im listening a philosophy lecture about existentialism
< 1272848743 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm spamming bots
< 1272848746 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pleased to meet you
< 1272848748 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1272848749 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :52|<ehird> Apple = Windows.
< 1272848751 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm Sgeo.
< 1272848752 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1272848753 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :84|<Warrigal> Porn.   <Warrigal> There, see?
< 1272848753 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you
< 1272848755 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1272848756 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :121|<fedoragirl> My mascot is a tree of broccoli.
< 1272848759 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1272848760 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :44|<zzo38> I am not on the moon.
< 1272848762 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1272848763 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :45|<PoPSiCLe> ah... the biggest problem with great Norwegian hip hop lyrics is that they're completely impossible to translate
< 1272848766 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1272848767 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :42|<ais523> after all, what are DVD players for?
< 1272848769 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1272848770 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1|<Aftran> I've always wanted to kill someone.  >.>
< 1272848772 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1272848774 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :70|<pikhq> Gregor is often a scandalous imposter. It's all the hats, I tell you.
< 1272848776 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1272848778 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm trying to invent even more hairy syntax for regular expressions
< 1272848778 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :70|<pikhq> Gregor is often a scandalous imposter. It's all the hats, I tell you.
< 1272848781 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1272848782 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17|<GKennethR-L> :d <(I can lick my nose!)
< 1272848784 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1272848785 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :149|<ais523> theory: some amused deity is making the laws of physics up as they go along
< 1272848788 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1272848789 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :41|<Madelon> :D  * Madelon has quit (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
< 1272848791 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1272848793 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :98|<fungot> ehird: every set can be well-ordered. corollary: every set s has the same diagram used from famous program talisman with fnord windows to cascade, someone i would never capitalize " i"
< 1272848795 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1272848796 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :42|<ais523> after all, what are DVD players for?
< 1272848798 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1272848799 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :76|<Sgeo_> I had an idea for an AskReddit, but I forgot
< 1272848802 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shitty rng
< 1272848803 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1272848804 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :61|<fizzie> Seconds. 30 of them. Did I forget the word?
< 1272848806 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1272848807 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :145|<apollo> Why couldn't we have just kept STD?
< 1272848818 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 77
< 1272848818 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :77|<ehird> no Deewiant <Deewiant> No?! <Deewiant> I've been living a lie <ehird> yep. <Deewiant> Excuse me while I jump out of the window ->
< 1272848819 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you please stop?
< 1272848827 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 91 92
< 1272848828 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1272848828 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, never!
< 1272848831 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 91
< 1272848831 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 92
< 1272848832 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :91|<oklopol> actually just ate some of the dog food because i didn't have any human food... after a while they start tasting like porridge
< 1272848838 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, continue
< 1272848839 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not unless something interesting happens
< 1272848840 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :92|<oklopol> if a girl is that cute, i don't care how many penises she has
< 1272848840 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forever
< 1272848842 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 92
< 1272848843 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :92|<oklopol> if a girl is that cute, i don't care how many penises she has
< 1272848853 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 80
< 1272848854 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :80|<Warrigal> I think hamsters cannot be inert.
< 1272848864 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol is somewhat crazy apparently.
< 1272848870 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"somewhat"
< 1272848871 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote alise__ is actually getting on MY nerves now.
< 1272848873 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1272848878 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol fail
< 1272848884 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 94
< 1272848885 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :94|* oerjan swats FireFly since he's easier to hit -----###  <FireFly> Meh  * FireFly dies
< 1272848889 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 93
< 1272848890 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :93|<Oranjer> oohhh  <Oranjer> ha  <Oranjer> heh  <madbrain> and what are your other characteristics?  <Oranjer> oh, many, madbrain  <Oranjer> but it's hardly worth it to go on with listing that list here
< 1272848899 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1272848903 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: ... By our standards.
< 1272848908 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lul
< 1272848914 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 95
< 1272848915 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :95|<fungot> Oranjer: the taylor's series is also alternately fnord as follows ( i'm using the latex notation here): david ben gurion signed the compensation agreement with germany when there was considerable division over these issues, because these are speculations without " any historical basis".
< 1272848916 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this neiztche thing is like a fucking self help
< 1272848918 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL
< 1272848920 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worst say of fnording a taylor series
< 1272848922 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo -e "alise__, stop\nalise__, stop\nalise__, stop"
< 1272848923 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__, stop \ alise__, stop \ alise__, stop
< 1272848924 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't expect that
< 1272848925 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EVAR
< 1272848930 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit
< 1272848930 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*way
< 1272848935 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise
< 1272848945 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know about NARWHALISM?
< 1272848949 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol wut
< 1272848954 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run yes alise__ stop
< 1272848955 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__ stop \ alise__ stop \ alise__ stop \ alise__ stop \ alise__ stop \ alise__ stop \ alise__ stop \ alise__ stop \ alise__ stop \ alise__ stop \ alise__ stop \ alise__ stop \ alise__ stop \ alise__ stop \ alise__ stop \ alise__ stop \ alise__ stop \ alise__ stop \ alise__ stop \ alise__ stop \ alise__ stop \ alise__ stop
< 1272848959 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no
< 1272848960 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :43|<ehird> pikhq: A lunar nation is totally pointless.  <fungebob> ehird: consider low-gravity porn  <ehird> fungebob: OK. Now I'm convinced.
< 1272848965 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Classic.
< 1272849001 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :126|<Warrigal> Ah, vulva.   <Warrigal> What is that, anyway?
< 1272849017 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :128|<Slereah> I can do everything a Turing machine can do, except love
< 1272849021 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would like to go to the moon
< 1272849043 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :135|<scarf> and an AMICED literal would presumably /add/ info to the source  <scarf> whatever info gets added, that's the value that the AMICED doesn't contain  <scarf> it's all falling into place
< 1272849054 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!show sadbf
< 1272849054 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadol :M$0 :d:i,45000@>i-01(2]M0:i-i1:S$0:C;3:l#C-01:p:m0@<pl(2?=#Cp"1+:#Mm%+#Mm1,3255?=#Cp"1-:#Mm?<-#Mm10,3254-#Mm1?=#Cp"1>:m%+m1d?=#Cp"1<:m?<-m10-s1-m1?=#Cp"1.!'2#Mm?=#Cp"1,:#Mm'1;0?=#Cp"1[]S-p1?=#Cp"1]?=#Mm00:p[S0:p+p1
< 1272849057 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow
< 1272849061 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's still here
< 1272849119 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18|<fungot> GregorR-L: i bet only you can prevent forest fires. basically, you know.
< 1272849119 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: sounds similar to what you're doing
< 1272849120 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically.
< 1272849127 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really? I'm flattered.
< 1272849169 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sleep time now bye
< 1272849191 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello
< 1272849194 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise don't go
< 1272849202 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise__: You sleep?
< 1272849210 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only... Midnight there.
< 1272849213 0 :alise__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1272849397 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1272851188 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: off by one. it was 1am
< 1272851220 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, alise is still.. I think I forgot that I already saw that conversation
< 1272851735 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MOO
< 1272851806 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :moo
< 1272852481 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lambda?
< 1272852523 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lamb-baa.
< 1272853759 0 :adu!~ajr@pool-173-66-9-50.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272854446 0 :Axtens!~Axtens@dsl-202-72-158-213.wa.westnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272855314 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal
< 1272858458 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272858530 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1272860780 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1272861022 0 :Alex3012_!~chatzilla@ool-18b989d3.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272861190 0 :Alex3012!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1272861192 0 :Alex3012_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Alex3012
< 1272862000 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1272862079 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-34-17-217.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272863069 0 :bsmntbombdood_!~gavin@174-16-214-66.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272863186 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1272864387 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272865155 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1272866795 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1272867433 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1272867775 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272868497 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272869058 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ĺŹłçżĽ and ĺ·¦çżĽ in Japanese are, literally, "right wing" and "left wing". And figuratively... "right wing" and "left wing".
< 1272869066 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who's responsible for that calque and can I please punch them?
< 1272869144 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I should note that çżĽ means "wing" as in the body part on various flying animals, not as in a wing of a building)
< 1272870236 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably a transliteration of the phrases from english
< 1272870253 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doubt they had equivalent words so it's just a literal translation that depends on understanding the figurative meaning
< 1272870301 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also lol @ moo/lambda, am i the only one who got it? :P
< 1272870426 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi: Yes, that's what a calque *is*.
< 1272870640 0 :bsmntbombdood__!~gavin@97-118-212-50.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272870666 0 :bsmntbombdood__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :bsmntbombdood
< 1272870874 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1272872249 0 :adu!~ajr@pool-173-66-9-50.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272873038 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.theonion.com/articles/geologists-we-may-be-slowly-running-out-of-rocks,17341/
< 1272873061 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I assume that the figurative meaning is in relation to politics?
< 1272873073 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Yes.
< 1272873079 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch
< 1272873431 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: null
< 1272873599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1272873600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272874714 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1272876091 0 :Axtens!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1272876964 0 :adam_d!~Adam@cpc2-acto6-0-0-cust48.brnt.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272877832 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I am leaving. You are about to explode.
< 1272878314 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@ix.ceid.upatras.gr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272878341 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~522ceedd@gateway/web/freenode/x-jqtkotzeadodcvsh JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272878350 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grrr...
< 1272878383 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried alise's bijector and now it seems to have taken all of the hard disc space.
< 1272878401 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For "[[[]]]"!
< 1272878415 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You've been... bijected!
< 1272878452 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aah!
< 1272878490 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume that this happened because there was a massive bignum in virtual memory.
< 1272878511 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But OS X seems to have resolved not to reclaim it.
< 1272878838 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :",[.,]" is 42860344287450692837937001962400072422456192468221344297750015534814042044997444899727935152627834325103786916702125873007485811427692561743938310298794299215738271099296923941684298420249484567511816728612185899934327765069595070236662175784308251658284785910746168670641719326610497547348822672277487
< 1272878859 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps I shouldhave pastebinned that. Oops.
< 1272878900 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Page closed
< 1272879605 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is 1?
< 1272879952 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: adu
< 1272880674 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~522ceedd@gateway/web/freenode/x-dqzvljlvokoxflet JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272880692 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise's program isn't a proper bijection.
< 1272880701 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It encodes ++- and ++ the same.
< 1272880714 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't know if that came up last night.
< 1272880863 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure that it can be fixed.
< 1272880974 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that sucks.
< 1272881047 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also means that there is no number for which it decodes ++-.
< 1272881224 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it was so elegant...
< 1272881238 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1272881310 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The NxN -> N part is still good, though; I guess you just need some sort of fixup for non-loopy strings? Admittedly I didn't follow to what the final result ended up as.
< 1272882212 0 :Tritonio_GR1!~Tritonio@tythes.ceid.upatras.gr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272882250 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1272882567 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@ix.ceid.upatras.gr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272882765 0 :Tritonio_GR1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1272883196 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@129.241.210.68 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272883205 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~522ceedd@gateway/web/freenode/x-oslterjfwagtdoes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272883223 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I *think* that the BF-Nat bijection can be salvaged
< 1272883236 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um what was wrong with it?
< 1272883239 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It depends on the properties of the NxN->N bijection.
< 1272883248 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait i was just thinking about that
< 1272883254 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: It encodes ++- and ++ the same.
< 1272883257 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1272883270 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looking at the code I don't think it handles - at all.
< 1272883283 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, I have two ideas.
< 1272883315 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first is to include the length of the tuple in the outer NxN.
< 1272883327 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This obviously works, but it isn't a bijection.
< 1272883338 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cannot help, someone is doing carpentry work outside the window, which is enough to turn my brain off instantly
< 1272883338 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it has some horrible problems.
< 1272883370 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1272883373 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because f(0, v) = 2v, so all of the even numbers are the null tuple.
< 1272883407 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alternately, you could make it f(<flattened tuple>, <length>)
< 1272883415 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see how it can be wrong in that way you describe
< 1272883424 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which only gives null for 2^k-1.
< 1272883438 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_What_?
< 1272883465 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not explaining this well, am I?
< 1272883515 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no.  i don't recall that the code i saw previously had that problem, assuming you fixed the lack of a 1+ in the list encoding
< 1272883517 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so we're injecting a tuple {1, 2, 3, 4} as {1, {2, {3, {}}}}
< 1272883526 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are missing a 4
< 1272883529 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then flattening that, taking {} as 0.
< 1272883534 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forget itÂ±
< 1272883537 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no!
< 1272883549 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/{1, 2, 3, 4}/{1, 2, 3}/
< 1272883552 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1272883552 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There?
< 1272883572 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so then we have f(1, f(2, f(3, 0)))
< 1272883573 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes.  the thing is, you must add 1 to each tuple
< 1272883582 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought that had been corrected
< 1272883600 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because tuple bijection is between [0..] x [0..] <-> [0..]
< 1272883601 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And use 0 as the terminator?
< 1272883629 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is you must not let {} have the same representation as a cons cell, duh
< 1272883640 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, OK.
< 1272883645 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was my second idea.
< 1272883665 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that relies on the way f behaves if you use it over and over.
< 1272883686 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f^-1, rather.
< 1272883698 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um no that's a different problem
< 1272883720 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But we want all nats to map to a BF program, fight?
< 1272883725 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/fight/right/
< 1272883725 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes.
< 1272883738 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now look.  it's a list, an algebraic data type
< 1272883741 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, but this encoding uses 0 as the end of the list?
< 1272883770 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data [a] = [] | a:[a], in haskell
< 1272883781 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK.
< 1272883783 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(incorrect but enlightening)
< 1272883801 0 :cheater2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1272883805 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that has _two_ branches, one for [] and one for :
< 1272883819 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they must be mapped to _disjoint_ sets
< 1272883839 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if [] is mapped to 0, then _no_ cons cell must be mapped to 0
< 1272883842 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But we need to demonstrate that if x_n+1 = cdr(f^-1(x_n)), the sequence hits 0 for all x_0.
< 1272883849 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I get that.
< 1272883878 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right.  but your problem at the moment was that you couldn't represent all lists. this fixed that.
< 1272883888 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But we need to prove that every nat decrushes into a valid list.
< 1272883889 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally it also fixes the other thing, though
< 1272883896 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. one that has 0 in it.
< 1272883917 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes.  i have a proof, which is what i was thinking about before i came here now
< 1272883922 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay!
< 1272883925 0 :cheater2!~cheater@ip-80-226-12-237.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272883933 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first, note that f(x,y) >= x and y
< 1272883953 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i assume.  it is easy to make an f with that property if you don't)
< 1272883959 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously.
< 1272883968 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You remember what f is?
< 1272883977 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the tuple encoding, i presume
< 1272883990 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but its value.
< 1272884004 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f(u, v) = 2^u(2v+1)-1
< 1272884008 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2^x * (2*y+1), or possibly that triangle thing - both are fine for this
< 1272884014 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh -1
< 1272884021 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, so it works for 0.
< 1272884051 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that what you said is correct; f(u, v) >= u and v.
< 1272884077 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case, 1 + f(u,v) > u and v, right?
< 1272884111 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... I think so.
< 1272884150 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it is.
< 1272884158 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK.
< 1272884160 0 :Rugxulo!~user@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272884165 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, obviously!
< 1272884180 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now then, when you recurse, you get a strictly smaller number at each step.  thus the recursion must terminate. QED:
< 1272884183 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*QED.
< 1272884203 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise__> x264 is amazing
< 1272884207 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they can encode Blu-Ray now
< 1272884235 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and didn't you see the big whining about how Jobs claims even Theora is going to be attacked over patents?
< 1272884242 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is sorry, logreading
< 1272884259 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Hang on , why 1+f?
< 1272884305 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i said that, you need to assign [] and u:v as _disjoint_ sets.
< 1272884311 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, yeah.
< 1272884330 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders why alise was messing with QBasic
< 1272884332 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the easiest way to do that and still use all Nats is to do [] -> 0 and shift (u,v) by 1
< 1272884373 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: It's a habit of his; we had one.. well, maybe not channel-wide, but multiple-people QBasic evening one day a while ago.
< 1272884374 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I don't think you'd get 0, using alise's encoding...
< 1272884382 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: The HTMLized QBasic manual is from that time.
< 1272884386 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you set the instructions correctly.
< 1272884406 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dumb question, but why not use FreeBASIC instead?
< 1272884434 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: For me, it was the semi-nostalgick aspect. Though possibly GW-Basic would have been even more so.
< 1272884442 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Who knows why alise does anything?
< 1272884446 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you cannot get 0 from a finite list, naturally.  you have (0,0) -> 0, after all, so it obviously gets infinite if you don't do the 1+ thing
< 1272884456 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever heard of Jeff Vavasour?
< 1272884457 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is an enigma wrapped in old newspapers, and smells of fish.
< 1272884462 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :www.vavasour.ca (I think)
< 1272884467 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait
< 1272884477 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Digital Eclipse, etc.
< 1272884482 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um no
< 1272884498 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he wrote a (partial?) Breakout emulator in BASICA/GWBASIC/QBASIC
< 1272884500 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, map '-'..'.' to 1..6, then if it's a loop flatten it and add either 7 or 6?
< 1272884511 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IDK which.
< 1272884532 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Breakout (arcade game, which I think Steve Wozniak and Steve Jobs worked on for Atari [!])
< 1272884538 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: no, map '-' .. '.' to 0..6, and add 6
< 1272884555 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if - is 0...?
< 1272884575 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is the whole thing in an implicit loop?
< 1272884585 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QB is okay, kinda old, but some impressive stuff was written in it
< 1272884598 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's actually on MS' FTP site in OLDDOS.EXE, I think
< 1272884601 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the encoding of the whole program is the same as the encoding of a single loop, minus the 6
< 1272884619 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, but if - is mapped to 0 we get alise's problem.
< 1272884623 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION finds it odd that they *still* ship DEBUG.EXE, EDIT.EXE, EDLIN.EXE, but no QBasic
< 1272884634 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, hm
< 1272884647 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ok right.  that is a problem.
< 1272884685 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> probably in the future, storage will be voluminous and fast enough that people won't bother compressing at all
< 1272884689 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :highly doubt it
< 1272884718 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- is equivalent to the empty program.
< 1272884733 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait!
< 1272884763 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What?
< 1272884772 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: no it's not.  the empty program is 0.  - is 1, because we _still_ do the 1+ thing
< 1272884802 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so what tuple is ",+.", say?
< 1272884802 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Even the digital movies they distribute to real theaters aren't lossless; according to one article, they encode each frame as a separate JPEG2000 file
< 1272884805 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JPEG can do lossless
< 1272884831 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{5, 2, 6, 0}?
< 1272884860 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Yes, and JPEG2000 can do lossless too; I just don't think they use it like that.
< 1272884863 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And ",-." is {5, 1, 6, 0}?
< 1272884869 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1+f(5,1+f(2,1+f(6,1+f(0,0))))
< 1272884870 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> 12 I think, that's 640x480 (highest QBasic res, probably due to BIOS limit, but VESA can do higher)
< 1272884914 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: So if we decons n and the cdr is one then we stop?
< 1272884914 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: I guess they might. "Motion JPEG 2000 (often referenced as MJ2 or MJP2) is the leading digital cinema standard currently supported by Digital Cinema Initiatives (a consortium of most major studios and vendors) for the storage, distribution and exhibition of motion pictures. -- each frame is an independent entity encoded by either a lossy or lossless variant of JPEG 2000."
< 1272884925 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no if the cdr is 0
< 1272884945 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yet my (low-end) digital cam only uses .JPG format (not lossless, either, variable compression)
< 1272884946 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f(0, 0) = 0.
< 1272884960 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So 1+f(0, 0) is 1.
< 1272884966 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<AnMaster> ais523, know of any easy way to disassemble a file that is isn't an object file, just raw x86 instructions
< 1272884968 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ndisasm
< 1272884978 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes.  1 <-> -  as a program
< 1272884982 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We don't need to decons 0.
< 1272884992 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: You're a bit late, since I suggested ndisasm there. :p
< 1272884996 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or distorm or BIEW (now called BEYE), IDA Free, etc. etc.
< 1272885010 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is the command 1, followed by the program 0 which is empty
< 1272885019 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> AnMaster: The Windows program DEBUG.COM could do it
< 1272885020 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: He's partial to the AT&T syntax anyway.
< 1272885030 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first of all, not Windows, pure DOS, secondly it's 8086 only
< 1272885033 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :objdump, then
< 1272885041 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I'll modify the code alise posted on the wiki.
< 1272885048 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Yes, but it needed some flags. Say, shouldn't you read to the end before commenting?-)
< 1272885055 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :objdump -d
< 1272885056 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a while, though.
< 1272885073 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps need objcopy to binary first ("-Obinary"? I forget)
< 1272885080 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't I read to end? nah   ;-)
< 1272885085 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: It needs objdump -b binary -m i386:x86-64 -d; that's not completely trivial.
< 1272885114 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, he *could* run DOSEMU and any DOS-based tool there (including ndisasm)
< 1272885154 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see why he'd run ndisasm in DOSEMU/dosbox, when it's available packaged in most Linux distributions. Anyway, it produces the wrong syntax.
< 1272885166 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, forgot
< 1272885179 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Why is the +1 even necessary?
< 1272885181 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although shame on him for not understanding / preferring Intel syntax
< 1272885197 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As for JPEG 2000, I don't think I've heard of any other real uses for it than digital cinema; it's very much different from plain JPEG, you know, being a wavelet-based thing.
< 1272885199 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: so that the representation of an empty list is different from a nonempty one
< 1272885233 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a nonempty list is essentially a tuple of car and cdr, but the tuple encoding has no extra room for the [] a list can have
< 1272885235 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make the empty list 0.
< 1272885252 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<AnMaster> didn't have nasm around on that computer (so get it, pre-built even, at http://www.nasm.us)
< 1272885284 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: the _tuple_ encoding is [0..] x [0..].  if you don't add 1, there _is_ a tuple which encodes to 0.
< 1272885293 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose.
< 1272885415 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, to make sure:
< 1272885416 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders why such a violently DOS-hating crowd would use QBASIC
< 1272885480 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Where did you get the "violently DOS-hating" part from?
< 1272885493 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. Swap the instructions '-'..'.' in BF with the numbers 0..6, and put any loops into their own tuples.
< 1272885502 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from experience   ;-)
< 1272885529 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: an _empty_ loop is not a tuple
< 1272885544 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it just null?
< 1272885579 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: the thing is, the encoding for single commands is different from the encoding for sequences of commands
< 1272885583 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Motion JPEG2000? Might not yield the smallest files for given quality...
< 1272885600 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, wait, when we're uncrushing n, do we stop on 0-as-cdr?
< 1272885602 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: You must be talking about some other people than us, then. Admittedly a lot of us couldn't consider using DOS for usual day-to-day computing, but that's pretty far from doing "DOS-hating".
< 1272885608 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a single command, a loop is just 6+whatever the sequence inside is
< 1272885612 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1272885649 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that sequence is not empty, then it is 1+whatever its car,cdr tuple is
< 1272885662 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK.
< 1272885664 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: It might be good for the particular quality level they're interested in. Or alternatively it could be just an accident of history that they settled on that format.
< 1272885672 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the car is encoded as a single command, but the cdr is encoded as a command sequence
< 1272885712 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole program is encoded as a command sequence
< 1272885713 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So for "++" you would take {1, 1}, then add one to get {2, 2}, then stick a 0 on the end to get {2, 2, 0}, then cons it?
< 1272885718 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I get a fair bit of flack for ever mentioning (Free)DOS to some people
< 1272885739 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ is 1 as a command iirc
< 1272885753 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if its lossless, the files are going to be very large... And as resolutions are high, the movies would be huge...
< 1272885775 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Is that correct?
< 1272885781 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no.  adding 1 to the car before consing is not the same as adding 1 to the cons afterwards, which is what you should do
< 1272885797 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh.
< 1272885808 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that there is _no_ empty single command, so you _don't_ need to add 1 for those
< 1272885820 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead you add 6 for embedded loops
< 1272885821 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: I seem to recall the article mentioning file sizes of around 200-500 gigabytes; I presume that was for the common 2K resolution (2048Ă—1080), so you can guesstimate whether it's lossless or not from that. Probably not.
< 1272885824 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trying to make mapping of bf programs to integers without gaps?
< 1272885836 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So we take {1, 1, 0}, then take {1, f(1, 0)}?
< 1272885844 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus one.
< 1272885866 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't recommend confusing the notation like that :D
< 1272885878 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{1, 1+f(1, 0)}, then 1+f(1, f(1, 0))?
< 1272885884 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{1,0} (the list) is 1+f(1,0)
< 1272885885 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1272885887 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Yes.
< 1272885911 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It started yesterday evening.
< 1272885991 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: 200 gigs for sightly less than 2 hour movie would yield ~270Mbps. Which would be near-lossless with good codec.
< 1272885993 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: "Briefly, the specification calls for picture encoding using the ISO/IEC 15444-1 "JPEG2000" (.jp2) standard and use of the CIE XYZ color space at 12 bits per component encoded with a 2.6 gamma applied at projection, and audio using the "Broadcast Wave" (.wav) format at 24 bits and 48 kHz or 96 kHz sampling, controlled by an XML-format Composition Playlist, into an MXF-compliant file at a maximum data rate of 250 Mbit/s." 250 Mbps doesn't sound quite loss
< 1272885993 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :less; that's only around 1.3 megabytes per frame.
< 1272886014 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't believe there's such a thing as "near-lossless".
< 1272886017 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And ",[.,]" -> {5, {4, 5}}, then work the {4, 5} out as if it was a standalone program, then add 6?
< 1272886041 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably the part that the human eye can't detect very well (which is JPEG's strong suit, right?)
< 1272886047 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1272886065 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is all very elegant if you think of it as algebraic data types
< 1272886086 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: It's still JPEG 2000, not JPEG. But yes, that's the idea.
< 1272886123 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I find the whole thing to be the most elegant.
< 1272886136 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes one sees compression @ 270Mbps in order to pack HD video data for sending over SDI link. And that's with low latency requirements -> not as good compression.
< 1272886145 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never seen any bijections between structured text and the nats before.
< 1272886207 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1272886220 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if we can generalise it...
< 1272886258 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :certainly, any algebraic data type should work, although the (0,0) <-> 0 infinite recursion problem _might_ crop up again if you're not careful
< 1272886310 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, whenever you have a type that consists of alternatives, you encode each alternative and then do something to the resulting numbers to make the results disjoint
< 1272886323 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The behaviour of f is fairly interesting by itself.
< 1272886327 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, 250Mbps with Motion JPEG2000 is probably better quality than 270Mbps VC-2, since one doesn't have to lose quality for less latency. And 270Mbps is used for studio streams that must be of extremely high quality.
< 1272886345 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if one alternative is finite, put it first and the (0,0) problem disappears for that choice
< 1272886349 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: I don't know if they specify higher data rates for resolutions like 4K (4096x2160 or around that), though. That's a lot of pixels per frame.
< 1272886359 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f(0, x) = 2x, and f(x, 0) = 2^x-1
< 1272886397 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which leads to the interesting if undesirable quality that all of the even numbers are in one column of the table.
< 1272886417 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1272886455 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a nice little table of the first few conses.
< 1272886507 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as we noted before, that f encoding is really biased to blow up cars
< 1272886515 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1272886535 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272886547 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But unless someone can think of an elegant deconsing of the triangular one, it's the best we've got.
< 1272886554 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1272886587 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Now look what you did: you made me go peek at the DCI spec.
< 1272886603 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The rows are all that other type of sequence where u_n+1=ru_n+a
< 1272886609 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Algebraic?
< 1272886627 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: "However in the exclusive case to accommodate a 2K, 48 FPS, 12 bit DCDM to use [SMPTE 372M Dual Link HD-SDI] as an interface, it is acceptable, but not recommended, to allow 10 bit color sub-sampling to create the DCDM* at the output of the Image Media Block decoder. This bit depth reduction and color subsampling is only allowed in the single combination of a DCDM at 2K, 48 FPS being transported over a link encrypted SMPTE 372M connection."
< 1272886627 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um what?
< 1272886640 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember what it's called.
< 1272886655 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linear recursive?
< 1272886655 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Sounds like a riotous function there.
< 1272886670 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The data size of two hours movie amounts to 8TB."
< 1272886673 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i _may_ have slightly punnified that sentence
< 1272886682 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that's just "may"?
< 1272886682 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, it seems that all of the rows have the same r and a.
< 1272886698 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i admit nothing.  NOTHING.  ok, maybe a little.
< 1272886740 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: is this still the 2^u*(2*v+1)-1 encoding?
< 1272886744 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1272886756 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it still blows up incredibly quickly.
< 1272886772 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[[]]] took up the entire hard drive with VM.
< 1272886779 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If someone wants to worry about the triangular version, you could start with one of the formulas at http://www.research.att.com/~njas/sequences/A000217 -- that's the "first row" of the table of the triangular thing, so if you can easily map n into the largest one of those numbers, it's trivial to then get the actual coordinates.
< 1272886792 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly there was only ~500M left on the HD, but still.
< 1272886804 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(After the references there's a big list of ways to compute them numbers.)
< 1272886821 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it's the reversal that is the problem
< 1272886837 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes, but it gives many different things to attempt to reverse.
< 1272886843 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What about the classic n(n+1)/2?
< 1272886846 0 :hiato!~fdulu@41-132-16-47.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272886848 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it needs a square root, essentially
< 1272886857 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And oerjan's right.
< 1272886858 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: that's the one we're talking about
< 1272886903 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose we could do newton's method approximated with bignum ints
< 1272886929 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a trade-off between elegance and practicality.
< 1272887017 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An exponential generating function for the inverse of this sequence is given by ... and then something horrible
< 1272887089 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's always a bad sign when functions start to get names of people.
< 1272887109 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bleugh.
< 1272887146 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this sequence by Triangle (and a bit Robert)
< 1272887198 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a book about generating functions with the title "generatingfunctionology" (all lowercase); I liked it because of the name already.
< 1272887200 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.amazon.com/reader/1568812795?_encoding=UTF8&ref_=sib_dp_pt#reader-link
< 1272887213 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the official name is maybe not lowercased, but that's the way the cover's printed.
< 1272887240 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It was course literature on a discrete maths thing.)
< 1272887274 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funny product description there. "One of the most important and relevant recent applications of combinatorics lies in the development of Internet search engines whose incredible capabilities dazzle even the mathematically trained user."
< 1272887288 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some concatenatingwordology there
< 1272887299 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like the numerical matrix course where the instructor started by talking about the Google matrix. Everyone wants to get on the Internet wagon.
< 1272887302 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even mathists.
< 1272887315 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is it "mathologists"?
< 1272887351 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is "mathematicians" too inaccurate?
< 1272887363 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pathological mathologists.
< 1272887365 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mathophysics
< 1272887373 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathocalypsists.
< 1272887400 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the mathocalypse will not be nice.  it will be very pretty, though.
< 1272887479 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm if you want an f encoding that is balanced between x and y, you essentially get approximately square root demanded automatically
< 1272887504 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because [1..x] x [1..x] has size x^2
< 1272887534 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand, hm
< 1272887534 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sqrt is at this point a lesser evil.
< 1272887546 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't need it _that_ balanced...
< 1272887625 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The current cons causes us to get a 38218-digit number for the cat program.
< 1272887630 0 :cheater3!~cheater@ip-80-226-228-115.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272887673 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A 7-char program.
< 1272887737 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's FOUR ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE.
< 1272887756 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What cat program? Presumably something more complicated than ',[.,]'...
< 1272887771 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :,[.[-],]
< 1272887787 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The no-change-on-EoF version.
< 1272887798 0 :cheater2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1272887824 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compatible with 0 on eof
< 1272887843 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :,[.,] still gives a number two orders of magnitude greater.
< 1272887852 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... Structure [[]], 5 segments...
< 1272887888 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A 22 digit num,ber.
< 1272887893 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each loop nesting blows up things with 2^... essentially
< 1272887969 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's particularly irksome because I can't tell what could be in the lower numbers. It's basically all junk, I think.
< 1272887976 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Valid junk, though.
< 1272887979 0 :cheater2!~cheater@ip-80-226-45-169.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272888195 0 :cheater3!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1272888240 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it that hard to reverse the function? We've already *got* a mathematically elegant one, so can we just live with using sqrt?
< 1272888272 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well we can, it's just that sqrt on bigints isn't a common builtin function afaik
< 1272888291 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1272888311 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: GMP at least does square roots.
< 1272888318 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell?
< 1272888329 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's probably a haskell package for it
< 1272888352 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but basic sqrt in haskell is for floating point types only
< 1272888366 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Appalling!
< 1272888417 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Generic_number_type says "The most efficient way is to call the native implementation of the square root of GNU's multiprecision library. (How to do that?) The most portable way is to implement a square root algorithm from scratch." and implements something iterative.
< 1272888426 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "How to do that?" isn't especially helpful.
< 1272888611 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i guess stealing that code may be an option :D
< 1272888739 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right that is newton's method
< 1272888758 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1272888841 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also http://gmplib.org/manual/Square-Root-Algorithm.html but that's a bit specific to their particular representation of integers.
< 1272888851 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~522ceedd@gateway/web/freenode/x-caegtsvqjphtawbg JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272888886 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: So how do we represent null lists, again?
< 1272888893 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0
< 1272888932 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, yeah.
< 1272888963 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Generic_number_type#squareRoot but i wonder why the heck they recurse on squareRoot itself...
< 1272888974 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And do we add 1 to the f(0, 0) at the end?
< 1272888988 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sorry, I'm just forgetful.
< 1272889022 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no f(0,0) at the end unless you actually have a car that is 0 there
< 1272889050 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that - from before i presume)
< 1272889051 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so at the end you decons and find that the car is the last element and the cdr is 0?
< 1272889061 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1272889083 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you _do_ subtract 1 before that decons, naturally
< 1272889086 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I figured out a way to reduce enumerating brainfuck programs to enumerating non-empty (ordered) trees... But how to enumerate ordered trees...
< 1272889119 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This method works fine *in theory*.
< 1272889129 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The numbers are enormous in practice.
< 1272889130 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: why non-empty? the empty bf program is perfectly legal
< 1272889200 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suspect that recursive squareRoot in there was added by someone who didn't know what they were doing
< 1272889322 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, reducing problem of...
< 1272889325 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Recursion seems appropriate in this context.
< 1272889344 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Encoding empty brainfuck program would need encoding of tree containing just one node...
< 1272889441 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: no, because the lowerRoot is supposed to be the initial estimate for the newton's method.  if you use squareRoot to refine that estimate you never actually _finish_ afaict.  not that i have run it.
< 1272889471 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i am arrogant enough to edit that page, now
< 1272889485 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if empty tree is included in enumeration, then one would need to know enumeration of it so one can skip it.
< 1272889501 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait it may hit squareRoot 1
< 1272889507 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me check that again
< 1272889546 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh!
< 1272889552 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i understand it.  scratch that.
< 1272889564 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION whistles innocently.
< 1272889565 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Don't we basically use trees?
< 1272889591 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With the nested tuples?
< 1272889619 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that I would know.
< 1272889665 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't immediately divide by the highest 2^n, it divides by the highest 2^2^n, so it makes perfect sense to recurse to find lower powers of 2 that still divide it
< 1272889732 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, what are the algorithms for the triangular bijection?
< 1272889766 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION will have to say that to a layman.
< 1272889786 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ordered trees meaning that 'x <- {x <- x, x}' and 'x <- {x, x <- x}' are different.
< 1272889786 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :triang(u+v)+u where triang n = n*(n+1)`div`2; plus or minus any off-by-one errors
< 1272889790 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ^
< 1272889839 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, and do we have an inverse?
< 1272889847 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :supposedly yes
< 1272889855 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is it?
< 1272889867 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finding u+v is approximately a square root
< 1272889900 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiply by 2 then take square root, except there might be some adjusting for that +1 in the product
< 1272889947 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lessee
< 1272889992 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all those quotes (recent log), too bad my B93 proggie only randomly prints 4  :-P
< 1272889997 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 -> 1, 2 -> 2, 3 -> 2, 4 -> 2, 5 -> 3, 6 -> 3, there has to be an off-by-something error in there
< 1272890034 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 3 6 10 15 21 ... are the triangular numbers
< 1272890036 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many ordered trees of n nodes are there anyway?
< 1272890081 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: math no fun
< 1272890090 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 1 3 6 10 15 21 ... are the triangular numbers
< 1272890105 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: How do you represent ",[.[-],]"?
< 1272890150 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0:(0,0), 1:(0,1), 2:(1,0), 3:(0,2), 4:(1,1), 5:(2,0), 6:(0,3)
< 1272890151 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For our method it seems to be {4, {5, {0}, 4}}.
< 1272890169 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sans terminators.
< 1272890213 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The tree part of it would be 'x <- x <- x'.
< 1272890216 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok that direction looks correct
< 1272890263 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: What is x?
< 1272890273 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Depicts node.
< 1272890288 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what are the contents of the nodes?
< 1272890395 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, number of ordered trees with n nodes is C(n-1) (Catalan numbers)...
< 1272890402 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!
< 1272890412 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what got me started on thisÂ±
< 1272890428 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, what
< 1272890440 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: you're not secretly clive gifford are you?
< 1272890447 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stephen Morley used the Catalan numbers to work out the no. of bits needed for a BF program of length n.
< 1272890464 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which set me thinking whether it would be possible to use that.
< 1272890466 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sent a message involving catalan numbers to him last week
< 1272890506 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clive Gifford the journalist?
< 1272890547 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know nothing about him being a journalist, it's the guy with eigenratios of self-interpreters
< 1272890613 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i did a very crude estimate of such a ratio which ended up being the catalan numbers in one column
< 1272890630 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has no idea what an eigenratio is
< 1272890658 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are no contents in these nodes. It is representation of structure of the program.
< 1272890675 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm still waiting to hear back about my next refined estimate, i'm afraid it ruins one of his hypotheses so i hope he's not angry at me
< 1272890702 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: basically if you have a self-interpreter for a programming language
< 1272890728 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you give it itself as argument, so it runs itself
< 1272890743 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you give _that_ the self-interpreter as argument, etc.
< 1272890766 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK...
< 1272890789 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then for some self-interpreters as you nest this, the running time gets slower in the limit by a constant factor each step
< 1272890811 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :growing approximately like r^n
< 1272890867 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then r is the eigenratio.  clive gifford has a blog about this: http://eigenratios.blogspot.com/
< 1272890880 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK/
< 1272890893 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maths is never as cool once you learn it.
< 1272890909 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, for a given value of "cool"
< 1272890922 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's used matrices to calculate this ratio for some interpreters, the "eigen-" is because the ratio turns out to be an eigenvalue of that matrix
< 1272891022 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: back to the bijection; i think multiplying by 2 and then taking square root gives either the floor of u+v or 1 more than it - i don't see a way to get either directly so there needs to be a postcheck for which one is right
< 1272891050 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And how do we derive u and v from u+v?
< 1272891075 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well we start with n = triang(u+v)+u
< 1272891085 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep.
< 1272891090 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so once we have u+v, u = n-triang(u+v)
< 1272891100 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1272891100 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then v = (u+v)-u
< 1272891140 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any progress on the sqrt?
< 1272891155 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that haskell link should work fine enough?
< 1272891173 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i was wrong about that recursion being a problem btw)
< 1272891211 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Generic_number_type#squareRoot
< 1272891306 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272891316 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, OK.
< 1272891404 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: http://safalra.com/programming/esoteric-languages/bf/program-density/ is safalra's page on the lowest number of bits needed to represent a BF program. The use of the Catalan numbers in both can't be a coincidence.
< 1272891440 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not
< 1272891471 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably not a coincidence or probably not not a coincidence?
< 1272891498 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkcd is picking up these past couple of times...
< 1272891508 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not *ducks*
< 1272891573 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That one was pretty good.
< 1272891962 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Later
< 1272892058 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1272892186 0 :lereah_!~lereah@nanpc301.in2p3.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272893214 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming x <- x <- x encodes to 2 (and choosing operation enumeration order to be '+-<>,.'), i get that enumeration of ",[.[-],]" is 144 877 580...
< 1272894442 0 :nooga!~nooga@86-63-114-188.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272894472 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey
< 1272895421 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who was norwegian?
< 1272895456 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, at least.
< 1272895460 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He just left an hour ago.
< 1272895468 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe "an hour" is not "just".
< 1272895521 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1272895531 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe he's sleeping
< 1272895598 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure you can find some Norwegians in a shop or something.
< 1272895872 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1272896139 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Norwegians in Poland, in a shop
< 1272896146 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-,-
< 1272896259 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, maybe a local people-store can order them in?
< 1272896336 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they don't have those
< 1272896454 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am reminded why Java is a horrible programming language
< 1272896562 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Slave markets or some-such.
< 1272896563 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: underflow
< 1272896677 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, amen
< 1272896696 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :javanauts are a bunch of douches, basically.
< 1272896705 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JAVANAUTS OMFG\
< 1272896725 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o\
< 1272896746 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nautical Java, for ship automation.
< 1272896762 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What did Java do now that was so awful?
< 1272896824 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 -> '', 1 -> '[]', 2 -> '+', 3 -> '+[]', 4 -> '-
< 1272896826 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'
< 1272897016 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: I think you're going to have to give us a bit more detail on how exactly that goes.
< 1272897108 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still need to figure out a way to enumerate non-empty ordered trees (so far the numbers are based on assumptions on that enumeration)...
< 1272897148 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but as a sneak-preview you could let us know how it goes, assuming you can enumerate those gaplessly and efficiently.
< 1272897352 0 :alise!~alise@212.183.140.51 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272897363 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> alise__: You sleep?
< 1272897363 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> Only... Midnight there.
< 1272897363 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 
< 1272897364 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't sleep night past
< 1272897375 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/all that colour junk (if you got it) and the blank line//g
< 1272897415 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1272897428 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272897674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Rugxulo> well, he *could* run DOSEMU and any DOS-based tool there (including ndisasm) <-- there is an issue here, why DOS at all. Also it seems likely that most DOS based tools are older than x86_64 with SSE4.1 (this code turned out to contain such instructions)
< 1272897730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, I wonder if it would be feasible to make an x86 program that were valid even when you remove the first byte, (and not making the first byte a nop or other such trivial variants)
< 1272897769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically it would mean that both the program and a not-whole-instruction offset should be valid
< 1272897818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably would be easy for small programs, but preferably this should be some non-trivial thing that does something that isn't complete nonsense
< 1272897873 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOS for QBasic.
< 1272897882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and preferably it shouldn't just branch to different, unshared, parts of the code right away)
< 1272897884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm?
< 1272897890 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was using DOS for QBasic.
< 1272897896 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or was that another DOS conversation?
< 1272897960 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:19:10 <Phantom_Hoover> Grrr...
< 1272897961 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:19:43 <Phantom_Hoover> I tried alise's bijector and now it seems to have taken all of the hard disc space.
< 1272897961 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:20:01 <Phantom_Hoover> For "[[[]]]"!
< 1272897963 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1272897966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, the thing rugxulo said? It was right in the context of quoting me on disassembling a file that wasn't in ELF or any other format (just "raw" instructions)
< 1272897968 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:27:39 <Phantom_Hoover> Perhaps I shouldhave pastebinned that. Oops.
< 1272897969 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it probably got cut off
< 1272897979 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:58:12 <Phantom_Hoover> alise's program isn't a proper bijection.
< 1272897979 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:58:21 <Phantom_Hoover> It encodes ++- and ++ the same.
< 1272897984 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw that, yes.
< 1272897988 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will fix it, I think.
< 1272897993 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am going to change the bijection.
< 1272897996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, bijection to what?
< 1272898005 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bifro.
< 1272898011 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't ring a bell at all
< 1272898067 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google indicates it is a hair style(?), which seems quite improbably in this context
< 1272898083 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jane@jane-desktop:~/code$ echo '++' | ./bifro encode
< 1272898084 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10
< 1272898084 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jane@jane-desktop:~/code$ echo '++-' | ./bifro encode
< 1272898084 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :26
< 1272898085 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fix'd
< 1272898096 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: A program I wrote last night; it well-orders the set of valid brainfuck programs.
< 1272898099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1272898104 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which also means every valid BF program has a corresponding number.
< 1272898108 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can give you the number, and decode any number.
< 1272898110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, are they sparse?
< 1272898121 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sparse howso?
< 1272898133 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The encoding is somewhat suboptimal:
< 1272898135 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jane@jane-desktop:~/code$ echo '[]' | ./bifro encode
< 1272898136 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, as in, not all numbers are mapped
< 1272898136 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :64
< 1272898136 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jane@jane-desktop:~/code$ echo '[[]]' | ./bifro encode
< 1272898136 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1180591620717411303424
< 1272898141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1272898142 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and [[[]]] I don't think is calculable in this universe
< 1272898144 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: all numbers are mapped
< 1272898147 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's basically the entire point
< 1272898151 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise it's "quite easy"
< 1272898158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yep, ascii code
< 1272898162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a bignum
< 1272898163 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, no
< 1272898164 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't handle []
< 1272898171 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the other "difficult" part
< 1272898174 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in
< 1272898175 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can have [
< 1272898176 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ]
< 1272898177 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unmatched
< 1272898184 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all I have to do is fix my NxN -> N bijection, anyway, and the numbers will be more reasonable
< 1272898189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, true, but those are not in the domain the function is defined in
< 1272898194 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, I don't think oerjan has given me the inverse algorithm either :-)
< 1272898197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(problem solved in a cheating kind of way)
< 1272898199 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, yes, true.
< 1272898208 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jane@jane-desktop:~/code$ echo ',[.,]' | ./bifro encode
< 1272898209 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1581267603963364205878869896241541461324661326282360299663291859589299527874963647593440497667477535118649045814975093057732880760826511538023542187037019608761854877160674698159897716735103252665935684988068320848140683464255411707953932466009059033912578566502802887127604801681488301032705683661296923932091466727292944
< 1272898221 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This mess is caused because
< 1272898222 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :biTo :: (Integer, Integer) -> Integer
< 1272898222 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :biTo (u,v) = ((2^u) * ((2*v) + 1)) - 1
< 1272898226 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so obviously u gets very big
< 1272898226 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and
< 1272898236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it isn't like it is a continuous function anyway, it is only defined for the integers
< 1272898240 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we encode loops with 6 + their crushing (6 is the number of non-loop instructions)
< 1272898247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(right?9
< 1272898248 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we have some 2^ magic in every element of the loop
< 1272898249 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and get a huge number
< 1272898250 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEN
< 1272898254 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/9/)/
< 1272898257 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we do 2^huge
< 1272898258 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ouch"
< 1272898263 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: naturals :P
< 1272898267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, right
< 1272898273 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what is the bf program 195722?
< 1272898289 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With the new fixed encoding that nobody else has seen before?
< 1272898295 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, either
< 1272898306 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the previous one is broken because it encodes ++ and ++- the same.
< 1272898310 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1272898313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the with the new one?
< 1272898317 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This one is broken because it's too huge but I need oerjan or someone to give me the inverse function first :P
< 1272898321 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ echo 195722 | ./bifro decode
< 1272898322 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :++><-----+
< 1272898327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh nice
< 1272898331 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Loops are very rare; to understand why, consider that they take the form of 2^huge.
< 1272898342 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And even adding one instruction to a loop makes it unimaginably bigger.
< 1272898356 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1272898371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so [-] is?
< 1272898373 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To wit, consider the two progams ,[.,] and ,[.,,]
< 1272898383 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pasties
< 1272898389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch that bad...
< 1272898392 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[-] is 128, nicely enough
< 1272898397 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://pastie.org/943535.txt?key=wyaxhf87u5uvgzblwuxa
< 1272898408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, tell me what lostking is in this. I mean, number of digits in it
< 1272898412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than the whole thing
< 1272898424 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Calculating the log would be very hard, the expression would be very big
< 1272898433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, true
< 1272898441 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Considering even very small programs probably cannot fit into the universe and I run out of 2GB on even very very trivial programs,
< 1272898446 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it is feasible.
< 1272898456 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, with the triangular NxN -> N bijection it should be okay.
< 1272898465 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I need to figure out (a) a canonical formula for it; and (b) its inverse.
< 1272898466 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what sort of programs use more than 2GB?
< 1272898470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, how trivial
< 1272898498 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see.
< 1272898510 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ echo ',[>>>>>.]+[<<<<<<<<<<]' | ./bifro encode
< 1272898513 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am pretty sure this will run out of memory.
< 1272898515 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not certain, though.
< 1272898522 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that a <1kb rot13 did it.
< 1272898526 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: There in the logs is one oerjan-guess for how you can derive the inverse, assuming you can do sqrt on your bignums.
< 1272898529 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you want an EASY one?
< 1272898534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what about nested loops? lets take something trivial [[-]-] or such
< 1272898539 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Certainly. Second.
< 1272898543 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, that's what i'm saying
< 1272898545 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it grows very quickly
< 1272898573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes,  but what order of size is something like [[-]-]. ,I would guess it is still pastebinable
< 1272898574 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ echo '[[-]-]' | ./bifro encode
< 1272898575 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2521728396569246669585858566409191283525103313309788586748690777871726193375821479130513040312634601011624191379636224
< 1272898575 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Disadvantage; - is the lowest.
< 1272898578 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1272898583 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not much more at all than that.
< 1272898587 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, still quite large
< 1272898589 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo '[[[-]-]-]' | ./bifro encode
< 1272898589 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hands
< 1272898591 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hangs
< 1272898593 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch
< 1272898594 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Do you want the code?
< 1272898602 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has a proper CLI to use it and everything
< 1272898606 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I don't know that it hangs forever
< 1272898608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, not really, it isn't a very useful bijection ;)
< 1272898617 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, as long as you avoid nested loops...
< 1272898623 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/942869.txt?key=vvwlyvvpwhxulduzur3q, anyway, one patch to make:
< 1272898629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well, ',[>>>>>.]+[<<<<<<<<<<]' isn't nested
< 1272898630 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crush (x:xs) = biTo (x, crush xs)
< 1272898631 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :becomes
< 1272898634 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crush (x:xs) = biTo (x, crush xs) + 1
< 1272898635 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and
< 1272898637 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :decrush n = let (x,xsn) = biFro n in x : decrush xsn
< 1272898637 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :becomes
< 1272898638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two loops sure, but not nested
< 1272898640 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :decrush n = let (x,xsn) = biFro (n-1) in x : decrush xsn
< 1272898656 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :,[>>>>>.]+[<<<<<<<<<<] -- running now
< 1272898692 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Amusingly, decoding is very quick and encoding is very slow, even though the decoding iterates /2 on a number until it does not divide two any more, and the encoder is O(1) for a single instruction!
< 1272898724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1272898738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, aren't most things O(1) for a single input operand
< 1272898749 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :biTo :: (Integer, Integer) -> Integer
< 1272898750 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :biTo (u,v) = ((2^u) * ((2*v) + 1)) - 1
< 1272898750 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but
< 1272898750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, assuming you measure in the right way
< 1272898754 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :biFro :: Integer -> (Integer,Integer)
< 1272898755 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :biFro n = (m, (((n `div` (2^m)) - 1) `div` 2) + 1)
< 1272898755 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  where n' = n + 1
< 1272898755 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        m = toInteger . length . takeWhile (\n'' -> mod n'' 2 == 0) $ iterate (`div` 2) n'
< 1272898755 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you decide
< 1272898757 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the m is basically
< 1272898788 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :m = 0; while n' % 2 == 0 { m += 1; n' = n' div 2 }
< 1272898805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I might be more interested when you come up with a mapping that gives "usable" results. With that I mean that lostkng should be possible to encode on something in this universe. Preferably something that isn't a super computer too ;)
< 1272898839 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:57:15 <Rugxulo> and didn't you see the big whining about how Jobs claims even Theora is going to be attacked over patents?
< 1272898846 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, he claimed apple themselves are going after theora, iirc
< 1272898856 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: LostKng - forget it, I imagine.
< 1272898863 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rot13? quines? sure.
< 1272898875 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: One very interesting thing to do is to come up with an encoding-quine.
< 1272898899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm?
< 1272898905 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make a program P such that P calculates (and preferably outputs) N, and number(P) = N.
< 1272898911 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1272898916 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like a name tag!
< 1272898918 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A name tag for itself.
< 1272898931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, does such a program even exist?
< 1272898942 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the fixed-point theorem, yes.
< 1272898947 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The same theorem that guarantees that quines exist.)
< 1272898962 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Proof that such a program exists:
< 1272898965 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :number(P) is certainly a computable function; therefore Brainfuck can compute it.
< 1272898971 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fixed-point theorem; Q.E.D.
< 1272899011 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:00:06 <Rugxulo> dumb question, but why not use FreeBASIC instead?
< 1272899018 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No peeking 'n poking madness; no nostalgia; no good-ole-days-feeling.
< 1272899036 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:00:42 <fizzie> Rugxulo: Who knows why alise does anything?
< 1272899037 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:00:57 <fizzie> It is an enigma wrapped in old newspapers, and smells of fish.
< 1272899039 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The answer is "fish and chips"
< 1272899042 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Old fish and chips"
< 1272899189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1272899193 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:16:56 * Rugxulo wonders why such a violently DOS-hating crowd would use QBASIC
< 1272899198 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOS is an interesting toy.
< 1272899210 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is well-architecture for running programs in a simple language with full hardware access.
< 1272899216 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And compiling them (with QuickBasic).
< 1272899218 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No more, however.
< 1272899225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no more?
< 1272899267 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; for things like basic office applications it works but it badly architectured.
< 1272899269 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess games, it's good for, too.
< 1272899272 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's it.
< 1272899276 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*but is badly
< 1272899282 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272899291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, idea: DOS C compiler + some asm routines, called peek and poke
< 1272899301 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol.
< 1272899303 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basic ftw
< 1272899320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, but you have to admit that basic has it's downsides (so do C but meh)
< 1272899321 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's even an advanced editor, factors procedures out into a menu and doesn't show them in the main program source (imagine it is called "main" and it all makes sense!)
< 1272899335 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QuickBasic doesn't have all that many disadvantages for DOS.
< 1272899349 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's fast, it compiles proper programs, and it's a fucking awesome language for peeking and poking and whatnot.
< 1272899354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and 640 kB is enough for everyone?
< 1272899364 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, I'm explicitly meaning FOR TINKERING here.
< 1272899377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, but sometimes you want to tinker with hundred of MB
< 1272899384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is that no longer tinkering then?
< 1272899436 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: '[[[[[[[[]]]]]]]]' is totally out of reach, right?
< 1272899450 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: On x86-32, the bytes "05 00 00 00 00" are "addl 0, %eax", while "66 05 00 00 00 00" are "addw 0, %ax; addb %al, (%eax)". If you can make sure %eax points to something sensible and the lowest byte is nonzero, you can determine which variant was executed based on whether the byte at %eax was changed or not.
< 1272899452 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Since the only thing that can possibly be different is that first instruction, I don't think you can get much more of an effect than that; then it's up to you how to make the code do different stuff, by branching or by some less-cheaty means.
< 1272899453 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beh
< 1272899472 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Yes. It blows up loops and it blows up instructions even more.
< 1272899480 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: No fear; it'll be triangularised soon.
< 1272899495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, couldn't you get instructions that end in different places too
< 1272899542 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:40:48 <oerjan> it needs a square root, essentially
< 1272899547 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Won't floor(sqrt(n)) do?
< 1272899554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, of course, once they end in the same place they will be merged, no way around it
< 1272899614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at least unless there is some strange flag you can set which might cause it to work out as different things)
< 1272899617 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I have a feeling that sort of stuff tends to get synchronized sooner or later. At least in my experience, even if you start a disassembly at a random spot, they tend to converge pretty fast. But yes, maybe if you're really really careful about selecting the instructions.
< 1272899641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1272899646 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any flag will cause the corresponding conditional branch/set/such do different things, but maybe that doesn't again count. :p
< 1272899674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, indeed doesn't. I was more thinking about x86 vs. x86_64, where iirc INC â†’ REX prefix and such things
< 1272899706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they either threw away or reused some of the BCD instructions too
< 1272899721 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Program starting with 'EB EB EA'. Jumps to offset 0xED from start even with first byte removed...
< 1272899746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, EB?
< 1272899760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have a reverse lookup table handy
< 1272899763 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JMP SHORT imm8
< 1272899767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1272899781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, and with first byte removed?
< 1272899798 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops 'EB EB EB'.
< 1272899802 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ref.x86asm.net/coder.html is sorted by opcode if you need it.
< 1272899805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah thought so
< 1272899817 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And anyway, it was supposed to do a different thing when the first byte removed, not the same. :p
< 1272899836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed what fizzie said
< 1272899848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it doesn't need to be exactly 1 byte
< 1272899870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but some small whole-byte offset (less than the size of the first instruction)
< 1272899874 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:26:54 <Ilari> Assuming x <- x <- x encodes to 2 (and choosing operation enumeration order to be '+-<>,.'), i get that enumeration of ",[.[-],]" is 144 877 580...
< 1272899879 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but does it have a program for each nat?
< 1272899952 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That 144 877 580 is likely wrong... And each nat is guarenteed to map to some program. And I don't think any two map to same program. I don't have finalized ordered tree to nat mapping.
< 1272899978 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ya'll crazy bitches
< 1272900029 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: You also haven't told us how you map to ordered trees, so we can't look for bugs in that. :p
< 1272900189 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Recomputed, and got 144 744 582 this time...
< 1272900195 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's nondeterministic!
< 1272900200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, and if you recompute again?
< 1272900203 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can see how the structure gives the shape of the tree, but it's not immediately clear how you deal with what instructions are where.
< 1272900205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, damn, beat me to it
< 1272900213 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AWESOME
< 1272900221 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it actually depend on the phase of the moon's minute changes?
< 1272900253 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The moon-men's minutes are a lot shorter than our human minutes.
< 1272900261 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, Milner died! Sad.
< 1272900325 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Nested a = Nil | Cons a (Nested a) | Nest (Nested a) (Nested a)
< 1272900326 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Ref a = Val a | Ref Int
< 1272900326 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deblimp :: Nested a -> [[Ref a]]
< 1272900335 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'mma finally getting down to the theory of deblimpification
< 1272900527 0 :fax!~none@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272900531 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey alise how come you are here
< 1272900545 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1272900579 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Who told you you can be here, huh?!"
< 1272900582 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh I hate deblimping it's basically all one big corner case.
< 1272900582 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :monday
< 1272900587 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :day off
< 1272900589 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bank holiday
< 1272900591 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\m/
< 1272900612 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You Britons and your made-up holidays.
< 1272900618 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :banks need holidays too!!
< 1272900700 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually grr this is irritating.
< 1272900700 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We've got May 1st as a holiday, but this year it was on Saturday.
< 1272900708 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like seriously.
< 1272900745 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: whenever that happens to us we end up with a ridiculously-titled "holiday in place of [what we missed]" day
< 1272900750 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever it is called.
< 1272900766 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How uncommonly fair of you.
< 1272900769 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get that 144 877 580 decodes to '.[++[-].]'. I computed segment nats for ',' and '.' wrong.
< 1272900788 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yes we brits are wonderful people.
< 1272900854 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Around here, whenever we miss a holiday because it lands on a weekend, we get a "sucks to be you" day, which is otherwise just like a regular workday, only worse in that you're annoyed because you've just missed a holiday earlier.
< 1272900856 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we've got may 1st and 3rd
< 1272900914 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: how finnish
< 1272900915 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: then explain 2 taps
< 1272900925 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and windows that open TO THE OUTSIDE
< 1272900933 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, you guys DON'T have 2 taps?
< 1272900937 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Why not?
< 1272900945 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And why on earth would you want a window opening INTO your room?
< 1272900954 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, your data type can be expressed as the fixed point, X[a] = a + X[a] + X[a]*X[a] ?
< 1272900964 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it can
< 1272900965 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can clean the window
< 1272900973 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: from the inside?
< 1272900974 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why
< 1272900976 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without leaving the room
< 1272900986 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this gives you a way to subdivide the isomorphism problem
< 1272900988 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :windows don't exactly get all that dirty to need urgent cleaning so often that going outside is a pain.
< 1272901001 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about 2 taps
< 1272901008 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: wut :P
< 1272901018 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically I'm trying to theoreticise my underload compiler's main bit
< 1272901020 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how am i supposed to wash a plate in boiling OR icy water
< 1272901026 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Underload has functions like (a(b(c)))
< 1272901031 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we need to make these into cross-referencing functions
< 1272901033 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so this becomes
< 1272901041 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ (a1) (b2) (c) ]
< 1272901049 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((a)(bc)(d(e)f))g becomes
< 1272901069 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ (1g) (234) (a) (bc) (d5f) (e) ]
< 1272901114 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a long time we weren't really sure an underload compiler was possible -
< 1272901122 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this trick, + the "function data structure" made it possible
< 1272901158 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(function data structure = if you did (a)(b)* i.e. append b to a, then this got stored with the function pointers to a and b's code, as a cons list of sorts)
< 1272901166 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(same for (x)a -> ((x)), etc)
< 1272901177 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: so now I'm trying to writ out that blimp algorithm
< 1272901180 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which flattens the list
< 1272901186 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each number-pointer is a "blimp"
< 1272901193 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means my function should be called blimp
< 1272901195 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not deblimp...
< 1272901211 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, wait, no
< 1272901217 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each little () is a blimp
< 1272901218 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w/e
< 1272901220 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: you get the idea
< 1272901315 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1272901328 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry I totally don't know anything probably best just leave me
< 1272901346 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: wut
< 1272901350 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what didn't you get :(
< 1272901411 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom_H@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272901439 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Did you fix your Haskell program?
< 1272901447 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yes; but did not triangularise it.
< 1272901456 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is easy to fix
< 1272901458 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I see the fixed version?
< 1272901458 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ $//
< 1272901466 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will a patch do? only two changes
< 1272901488 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Change the two lines almost identical to these to the ones shown here:
< 1272901489 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crush (x:xs) = biTo (x, crush xs) + 1
< 1272901491 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :decrush n = let (x,xsn) = biFro (n-1) in x : decrush xsn
< 1272901502 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then recompile (ghc -O2 --make bifro.hs -o bifro)
< 1272901515 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, did you fix the problem in the algorithm that caused it to return the same number for ++- and ++?
< 1272901522 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; that is that fix.
< 1272901544 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, since this ends up doing 2^(1+stuff) in for loops instead of just 2^stuff, everything is even more ginormous. :-)
< 1272901583 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1, 3, 7, 15, 31, 63, 127 -- result of - | -- | --- | etc
< 1272901585 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For heaven's sake, does no-one have an algorithm for the inverse of the triangular bijection?
< 1272901591 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like odd numbers at first :-)
< 1272901599 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yes, almost
< 1272901614 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:50:22 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: back to the bijection; i think multiplying by 2 and then taking square root gives either the floor of u+v or 1 more than it - i don't see a way to get either directly so there needs to be a postcheck for which one is right
< 1272901616 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:50:50 <Phantom_Hoover> And how do we derive u and v from u+v?
< 1272901616 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:51:15 <oerjan> well we start with n = triang(u+v)+u
< 1272901616 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:51:25 <Phantom_Hoover> Yep.
< 1272901616 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:51:30 <oerjan> so once we have u+v, u = n-triang(u+v)
< 1272901617 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:51:40 <Phantom_Hoover> Oh.
< 1272901618 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:51:40 <oerjan> and then v = (u+v)-u
< 1272901624 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a matter of coding this up
< 1272901630 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now the question is, how do we do the post-check accurately?
< 1272901637 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By hand!
< 1272901679 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, for every single program :)
< 1272901685 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I know
< 1272901687 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is easy to check
< 1272901690 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x^2 == right
< 1272901692 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(x+1)^2 == right
< 1272901698 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this is wrong
< 1272901705 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because x^2 won't be precisely the answer we need, will it
< 1272901711 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, we can't check that way
< 1272901714 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we really need oerjan to help us here
< 1272901742 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, so f(u, v) = (u+v)(u+v+1)/2+u?
< 1272901794 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :triang(u+v)+u where triang n = n*(n+1)`div`2
< 1272901803 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1272901814 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so ((u+v)*(u+v+1) `div` 2) + u
< 1272901819 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so (((u+v)*(u+v+1)) `div` 2) + u
< 1272901826 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We /will/ use precise parenthesisation!
< 1272901837 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"plus or minus any off-by-one errors"; says oerjan
< 1272901890 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can the numbers get so big for simple programs?! Every number maps to a valid program!
< 1272901902 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :loops
< 1272901908 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[0,1,3,6,10,15,21,28,36,45,55]
< 1272901909 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[2,4,7,11,16,22,29,37,46,56,67]
< 1272901909 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[5,8,12,17,23,30,38,47,57,68,80]
< 1272901909 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[9,13,18,24,31,39,48,58,69,81,94]
< 1272901909 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[14,19,25,32,40,49,59,70,82,95,109]
< 1272901910 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[20,26,33,41,50,60,71,83,96,110,125]
< 1272901911 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[27,34,42,51,61,72,84,97,111,126,142]
< 1272901913 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[35,43,52,62,73,85,98,112,127,143,160]
< 1272901915 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[44,53,63,74,86,99,113,128,144,161,179]
< 1272901917 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[54,64,75,87,100,114,129,145,162,180,199]
< 1272901919 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[65,76,88,101,115,130,146,163,181,200,220]
< 1272901920 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes...
< 1272901921 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here horizontal = increase second argument
< 1272901923 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vertical = increase first argument
< 1272901925 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the triangular
< 1272901929 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which exhibits quite good growth I think
< 1272901932 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will plug it into my program
< 1272901935 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without fixing the other way around
< 1272901990 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> crush (fst (parse ",[.,]"))
< 1272901991 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :312012695
< 1272901992 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much better
< 1272902006 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reversibility!
< 1272902010 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> crush (fst (parse "[[[[[]]]]]"))
< 1272902010 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :213154541901809831953
< 1272902015 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It can't be reversed /yet/.
< 1272902022 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to ask oerjan about the sqrt stuff first.
< 1272902025 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But wow, those are good results!
< 1272902031 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait.
< 1272902067 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNFORTUNATELY
< 1272902070 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello world is still huge
< 1272902074 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[3,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,5354164073076684878196228396564020578803679189102849778525663731938902525444515224420427138133134637920836890782453088665839948145820092076713415549434307727405966835227032540083505526997209611299464854680212856949448028235011323804396384569956482164446390459797750748251474085517169113816957984439650500125963237364050624907522513416960323815412898338127406868607518044494986367473299784801918842103825814040773826020133025992246889415795
< 1272902075 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :35777677808436141814,2,5,3,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,89693062033816922605205825944,2,1,5,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,5,5,1,1,1,5,3,3,3,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,89693062033816922605205825944,2,5,3,3,3,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,14333536460712558084283567410257460820133224763596344172314303799578193610093108205094456521650228199838472126415141884581995334932340129379148477559707459959545576999778527755763656033545930008690570401539469908519542923093293866773152151477794528497181690063188383395045995
< 1272902075 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1557447373818212334868702619287904919346690680502733198242627295679574194061355035703752923594385067469018029706561653941015792877680406733587246784406411632470943569135223195170725555329691921703375500895996752850629092483314008449940432238690371512189308188659696451544516606747397349661314807321205718172628988242893865139529255491147596410168400964451760816675236538504914109773983094253795888709666794010571089587049752395012003064486642816360910937797056
< 1272902081 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :693740451617167478378383875365441979920592376562008886469597656791896708701802207527665390314320715361945598862239045424492744590207542409271756177422324294118894451516811455159755859,2,0,0,0,5,2,2,2,2,5,1,1,1,5,0,0,0,0,0,0,5,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,5,3,3,1,5]
< 1272902084 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's just the list
< 1272902087 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need to crush it after that
< 1272902091 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O
< 1272902098 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO I PROPOSE that one, or both, of these things are true:
< 1272902110 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1) Our list-crushing is crappy, and could be made better.
< 1272902117 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unlikely.
< 1272902121 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(b) Our representing-loops-as-crushed-lists-at-the-start is crappy, and could be made better.
< 1272902128 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, 1 and b.
< 1272902133 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think (b) is more likely than (1).
< 1272902148 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I dunno man
< 1272902150 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then we need to imply an encoding in the list...
< 1272902152 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crush (x:xs) = biTo (x, crush xs) + 1
< 1272902152 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3
< 1272902153 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er
< 1272902155 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :drop that 3
< 1272902158 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think maybe cons-cell is wrong here
< 1272902162 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe we could get it more efficient
< 1272902165 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One issue is
< 1272902168 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the +1s add up
< 1272902172 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the crush xs in the second biTo
< 1272902174 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is +1+1+1+1 a lot
< 1272902177 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depending on nesting
< 1272902180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Phantom_Hoover> How can the numbers get so big for simple programs?! Every number maps to a valid program! <-- a) lots of possible programs b) define "simple" c) maybe some complex programs have a really simple number?
< 1272902180 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: that's the issue :(
< 1272902190 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(c) is very false
< 1272902190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes loops
< 1272902192 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trivially can be checked
< 1272902207 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well, depends on how you define complex.
< 1272902222 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Non-retardedly.
< 1272902223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in number of bytes? in terms of loops?
< 1272902226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, true
< 1272902273 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, a nice bijection would be if you ended up with unpredictable number.
< 1272902274 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: What about the idea you had before crushing loops?
< 1272902286 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crush [-5] == crush 2; interesting to see the behaviour for (not-meant-to-work) negative arguments.
< 1272902287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure how feasible it is
< 1272902301 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You mean put a nop instruction to signify []?
< 1272902308 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that would mean that all loops are additions, rather than crazies.
< 1272902312 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :][, actually, but yeah.
< 1272902314 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The translation would be harder, though :-)
< 1272902316 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, ][.
< 1272902325 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[] would be nop+N
< 1272902330 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[][] would be nop+N, nop, nop+N
< 1272902358 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION loads bifroexp.hs, and experiments
< 1272902399 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Of course this means I need my own nested list structure, bleh.
< 1272902400 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But okay.
< 1272902419 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just keep adding 6?
< 1272902429 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait I do not require that
< 1272902430 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am happy now
< 1272902436 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Happy like a bee
< 1272902450 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, what does +++<noop>+++ correspond to?
< 1272902465 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If noop is an instruction, it ruins the bijection.
< 1272902471 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sup
< 1272902472 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh; you are correct.
< 1272902482 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless it is kept only inside loops.
< 1272902484 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: we could map it to +++X+++, because X is technically a "valid" bf instruction
< 1272902486 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but that is cheating)
< 1272902489 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's possible.
< 1272902494 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it would always be just after a loop, or just at the start/end of a loop
< 1272902496 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like [x]nop
< 1272902497 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or [nop]
< 1272902504 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even [nop]nop[nop]
< 1272902507 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for [][]
< 1272902510 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make the instruction set only include nop when we're in a loop?
< 1272902514 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats the point in turning programs into numbers?
< 1272902538 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: If you need to ask the point, you haven't gotten it.
< 1272902547 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There *is* no point.
< 1272902548 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: go listen to jazz
< 1272902549 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have nops outside of loops
< 1272902554 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[] -> nop
< 1272902557 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha
< 1272902558 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!!
< 1272902559 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait
< 1272902560 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[] -> nop+N
< 1272902567 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1272902569 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[][] -> nop+N, nop, nop+N
< 1272902570 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :N being the nesting?
< 1272902574 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[x][y] -> x+N, nop, y+N
< 1272902577 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1272902594 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And nop+N, nop+N?
< 1272902625 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[nopnop]
< 1272902631 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is, basically, the issue.
< 1272902636 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nop+N, nop+N = []
< 1272902648 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we /could/ have tons of restrictions, but writing the bijection would be /very hard/
< 1272902770 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nop+N, nop+N = [][]?
< 1272902787 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, this is horrible.
< 1272902790 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1272902793 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nop+N, nop+N = []
< 1272902796 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nop+N, nop, nop+N = [][]
< 1272902801 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is
< 1272902896 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about changing the instruction set once we're in a loop, so that it's '-'..'.' in the base level and '-'..'.'+nop once N is greater than 0, then changing the increment of N accordingly.
< 1272902902 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's ugly, admittedly.
< 1272902946 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because
< 1272902949 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like I have told you a million times
< 1272902951 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nop is valid outside
< 1272902956 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[x][y] = x+N, nop, y+N
< 1272902963 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does it have to be?
< 1272902964 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nop also works as an adjacent loop separator
< 1272902971 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because [x][y] = x+N, y+N = [xy]
< 1272902973 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does not work
< 1272902977 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what it always was.
< 1272902990 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then how the fuck do you encode [x][y] and [xy] differently what's why introduced nop in the first place
< 1272902991 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh
< 1272902993 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1272903000 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the whole issue
< 1272903014 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But make [x][y] x+N, nop+N, y!
< 1272903021 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/y/y+N/
< 1272903024 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what?!
< 1272903028 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes no sense whatsoever!
< 1272903028 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh.
< 1272903031 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, at all
< 1272903035 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suck at explaining...
< 1272903036 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's semantic junk
< 1272903057 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try to explain it to myself, first.
< 1272903059 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean i get it
< 1272903064 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just think it's a really silly idea
< 1272903066 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and doesn't help at all
< 1272903071 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because allowing nop in a loop anywhere
< 1272903085 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then nop+N,nop+N,nop+N = [] or [][]
< 1272903166 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise be my friend
< 1272903171 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1272903199 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey oerjan log-reading
< 1272903201 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :istriangular:=proc(n) local t1; t1:=floor(sqrt(2*n)); if n = t1*(t1+1)/2 then RETURN(true) else RETURN(false); fi; end; (N. J. A. Sloane, May 25 2008)
< 1272903205 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need a bijectin to all nats yo
< 1272903209 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*bijection
< 1272903210 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ $//
< 1272903212 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does the +u fix that
< 1272903216 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or w/e
< 1272903230 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1272903296 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :T(n) = nC2
< 1272903329 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f6/Pascal%27s_triangle_5.svg
< 1272903330 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coo.
< 1272903345 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so T(u+v)+u = (u+v)C2 + u :P.
< 1272903399 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know an efficient way to invert that
< 1272903402 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't)
< 1272903412 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/f/d/8/fd8253a78f5f19c216b74278cd847bfc.png
< 1272903421 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:50:22 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: back to the bijection; i think multiplying by 2 and then taking square root gives either the floor of u+v or 1 more than it - i don't see a way to get either directly so there needs to be a postcheck for which one is right
< 1272903421 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:50:50 <Phantom_Hoover> And how do we derive u and v from u+v?
< 1272903421 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:51:15 <oerjan> well we start with n = triang(u+v)+u
< 1272903421 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:51:25 <Phantom_Hoover> Yep.
< 1272903422 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:51:30 <oerjan> so once we have u+v, u = n-triang(u+v)
< 1272903422 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that n^_k_ is from finite calucus
< 1272903423 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:51:40 <Phantom_Hoover> Oh.
< 1272903427 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:51:40 <oerjan> and then v = (u+v)-u
< 1272903431 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :requires square root; so computing it requires checking the root is right and stuff
< 1272903439 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, it's pretty computable
< 1272903444 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about isqrt
< 1272903450 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think oerjan planned on that
< 1272903451 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure though
< 1272903458 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:52:20 <Phantom_Hoover> Any progress on the sqrt?
< 1272903458 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:52:35 <oerjan> that haskell link should work fine enough?
< 1272903459 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:52:53 <oerjan> (i was wrong about that recursion being a problem btw)
< 1272903459 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:53:31 <oerjan> http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Generic_number_type#squareRoot
< 1272903462 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a matter of checking;
< 1272903471 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this floor(sqrt(x)) or sqrt(x)+1
< 1272903477 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need an algorithm to precisely do that
< 1272903565 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/bzfwz/fellow_programmers_even_if_your_vision_is_solid/
< 1272903624 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1272903632 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have like 20/300000000000000000000000000000004 :|
< 1272903636 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8)
< 1272903658 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272903675 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi augur 8D
< 1272903741 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur 8D; that's some versioning scheme
< 1272903760 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh a good day augur can exceed 8D
< 1272903766 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on*
< 1272903767 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: anyway admire oerjan's lovely inversion
< 1272903778 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too, i jut want to invert oerjan all day
< 1272903781 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's totally elegant if you have an accurate floor(sqrt(x)) :P
< 1272903783 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_O
< 1272903792 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay :P
< 1272903803 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise - the bijection that uses unique factorization is much more clever though
< 1272903890 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait
< 1272903892 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it is quite useless computationally because 2^k grows so fast
< 1272903893 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think multiplying by 2 and then taking square root gives either the floor of u+v or 1 more than it - i don't see a way to get either directly so there needs to be a postcheck for which one is right
< 1272903899 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how do we know whether it's u+v is the question
< 1272903947 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, have you solved the noop problem?
< 1272903958 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1272904060 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: no.
< 1272904113 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BtW, I don't like the name noop.
< 1272904117 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't noop.
< 1272904134 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It separates lists, or is the empty list.
< 1272904142 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/list/loop/
< 1272904154 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it does nothing :P
< 1272904193 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[]? Of course it does something!
< 1272904208 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what's the story
< 1272904243 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, how often is the phrase "You need a (life|girlfriend)" uttered here?
< 1272904436 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not often, because nobody here has one
< 1272904439 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[] does something
< 1272904440 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+[] hangs
< 1272904445 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but nopt itself
< 1272904446 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't
< 1272904447 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*nop itself
< 1272904452 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the loop "around" it that does
< 1272904463 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not an instruction. It's just a syntactic marker.
< 1272904494 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION uploads a pdf explaining our triangular dilemma
< 1272904497 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://filebin.ca/ogtqw/bij.pdf
< 1272904497 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why can't we have [][] as nop, nop?
< 1272904507 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: what's [x][y]
< 1272904511 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1272904519 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess we could encode that as [x][][y] because it's equiv
< 1272904520 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's not 1:1.
< 1272904525 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, read the pdf guyz.
< 1272904533 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x+N, nop+N, y+N?
< 1272904572 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's [x][][y]
< 1272904576 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you fail at bijecting
< 1272904577 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try again
< 1272904580 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Umm...
< 1272904582 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because [x][][y] is a valid program too
< 1272904589 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's not the same~ (semantically yes, but syntactically no)
< 1272904597 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: wait, no
< 1272904600 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's [x[]y]
< 1272904602 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, why can't nop mean different things?
< 1272904603 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you said nop = []
< 1272904613 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Based on context?
< 1272904618 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you have to KNOW WHAT IT MEANS IN EACH CONTEXT; and be able to CONTROL which meaning it has at any time
< 1272904625 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because we have to /do all programs/, even equivalent ones, separately.
< 1272904670 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im listening to hungry eyes
< 1272904711 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about one for ][ and one for []?
< 1272904727 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's think about the more interesting bijection! :P
< 1272904731 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and less frustrating
< 1272904735 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://filebin.ca/ogtqw/bij.pdf
< 1272904742 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw it!
< 1272904751 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: If you didn't get the triangular one in functions correctly yet, here's one version courtesy of computers; it's a bit unsimplified, but you can rectify that: http://pastebin.com/8zH1iNS9
< 1272904767 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh, so it figured out which will work?
< 1272904780 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Mathematica does the table in a bit mirrored way, but other than that it seems to be working.)
< 1272904780 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                            âš
< 1272904780 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :         âš
< 1272904780 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either âŚŠ 2n âŚ‹ = u + v or âŚŠ 2n â’ 1âŚ‹ = u + v. So to implement Îą(n), we need an accurate
< 1272904780 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :algorithm to decide which to use, and calculate it, given only integers, rationals (without sqrt, I
< 1272904780 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think), and a pre-implemented sqrt for floating-point numbers.
< 1272904783 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :urgh
< 1272904786 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either floor(sqrt(2n)) = u+v
< 1272904789 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or floor(sqrt(2n)-1) = u+v
< 1272904806 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: oh, you did not work out the inverse.
< 1272904817 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, wait
< 1272904819 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is d the inverse?
< 1272904823 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: How so? u[x] and v[x] give the inverse for x = f[u, v].
< 1272904828 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg, it worked it out!
< 1272904832 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I love you.
< 1272904858 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d[x] gives the index for how many'th diagonal x is from; that's what I asked it to Solve[] for me. u[x] and v[x] were written manually based on d[x]; those are simple when that is known.
< 1272904862 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d is crazy
< 1272904865 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :âŚŠ 2n â’ 1âŚ‹
< 1272904867 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like these brackets
< 1272904871 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so floor(sqrt(2n)) is not even close!
< 1272904876 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so now we have the sane bijection we can work on the BF<->tuple of natural
< 1272904881 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Wait wait
< 1272904885 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, didn't mean to press enter.
< 1272904886 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does that work with integer sqrt?
< 1272904891 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. normal integer sqrt
< 1272904903 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes, I think so. I tried it with another Floor[] around the Sqrt[] itself.
< 1272904920 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it gave the same results?
< 1272904944 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, unless I screw up something.
< 1272904949 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In[7]:= d[x_] := Floor[(Floor[Sqrt[8*x+1]]-1)/2]
< 1272904949 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In[8]:= {u[#], v[#]}& /@ {0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15}
< 1272904949 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out[8]= {{0, 0}, {1, 0}, {0, 1}, {2, 0}, {1, 1}, {0, 2}, {3, 0}, {2, 1},
< 1272904949 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 
< 1272904949 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>    {1, 2}, {0, 3}, {4, 0}, {3, 1}, {2, 2}, {1, 3}, {0, 4}, {5, 0}}
< 1272904954 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol mathematica
< 1272904975 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from(n) = (u, v)
< 1272904977 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  where m = (floor(sqrt(8*x+1)) - 1) `div` 2
< 1272904977 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        u = m - (n - to(n, 0))
< 1272904977 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        v = n - to(m, 0)
< 1272904984 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: Hey, mathematica worked out d for him.
< 1272904986 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's coo in my book.
< 1272905004 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to(m, 0) also in u.
< 1272905028 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#
< 1272905029 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :u[x_] := d[x] - (x-f[d[x], 0])
< 1272905032 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To I, beg differ.
< 1272905038 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d[x] is m, isn't it?
< 1272905042 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right.
< 1272905042 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry.
< 1272905088 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will Double work better for the sqrts?
< 1272905090 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more predictable...
< 1272905159 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello
< 1272905161 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what should I do
< 1272905170 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dance
< 1272905177 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o\ \o/ /o/
< 1272905178 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   |   |   |
< 1272905178 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  /`\ /<  /<
< 1272905184 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WOW!!!!!!
< 1272905198 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/
< 1272905208 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi
< 1272905210 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do it
< 1272905221 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`fungot style
< 1272905221 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: indeed. the ability to hack stuff like " fnord setup -l compiler" should work.
< 1272905222 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're not a good enough dancer; it won't do it for you
< 1272905223 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hey you broke ified it
< 1272905228 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1272905231 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :biFro :: Integer -> (Integer,Integer)
< 1272905233 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :biFro n = (m - (n - biTo (m,0)), n - biTo (m,0))
< 1272905233 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  where m = (floor (sqrt (8 * fromInteger n + 1) :: Double) - 1) `div` 2
< 1272905234 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO WORKY.
< 1272905239 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For one,
< 1272905240 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> biFro 1
< 1272905241 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(2,-1)
< 1272905278 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :floor (sqrt (8*1+1)) = 3;
< 1272905280 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-1 = 2;
< 1272905284 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`div` 2 = 1;
< 1272905286 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1272905292 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then we get ridiculous things involving 1 -
< 1272905300 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I bet floor around the sqrt doesn't really work.
< 1272905319 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: It does work. I assume your biTo isn't exactly my f[u, v] there.
< 1272905330 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :biTo :: (Integer, Integer) -> Integer
< 1272905331 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :biTo (u,v) = triang (u+v) + u
< 1272905331 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  where triang n = n * (n+1) `div` 2
< 1272905337 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is it.
< 1272905342 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have +v
< 1272905343 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :silly wabbit
< 1272905349 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make it +u and ask mathematica again?
< 1272905363 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I am in charge spammers will be hunted and slowly tortured.
< 1272905368 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why don't you just make it +v there? I'm making food right now. :p
< 1272905389 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alternatively, swap u/v; it shouldn't affect u+v, after all.
< 1272905405 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, ask for biTo(0, m) there.
< 1272905408 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(In biFro.)
< 1272905419 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I *think* I've got a coding that doesn't increase exponentially.
< 1272905439 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: >_>
< 1272905443 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Set up a mathematica bot, dammit.
< 1272905451 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WolframAlpha
< 1272905469 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello
< 1272905484 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I can type it into Mathematica if you tell me what to type :-P
< 1272905499 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wolfram Alpha fails at life
< 1272905503 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um I think we need to be solving like a function
< 1272905521 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1272905571 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, it works now.
< 1272905621 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ echo ',[.,]' | ./bifroexp encode | ./bifroexp decode
< 1272905621 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[][++]+-]<
< 1272905628 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting! Interesting but incorrect!
< 1272905644 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what'sup
< 1272905645 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What encoding are you using?
< 1272905645 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Solve[f[((u+v) * (u+v+1))/2 + u] = u+v, f] or something, I guess.
< 1272905647 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er
< 1272905650 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Solve[f[((u+v) * (u+v+1))/2 + u] == u+v, f] or something, I guess.
< 1272905653 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey alise you're doing it wrong
< 1272905667 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :type Bijection a b = (a -> b, b -> a)
< 1272905677 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: yeah yeah shut up.
< 1272905680 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1272905688 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: There's an infinite number of solutions to that, you can't solve for a function :-P
< 1272905689 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/
< 1272905704 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Solve[x == u+v, x] or something, I guess.
< 1272905708 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: that just makse the code more cluttered
< 1272905708 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*makes
< 1272905710 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my case
< 1272905715 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Solution: x = u+v
< 1272905719 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er yes :P
< 1272905721 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: How are you encoding the program into tuples of naturals?
< 1272905726 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I am sure it can solve functions.
< 1272905727 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The old method?
< 1272905731 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise you don'tknow anything about code clutter
< 1272905732 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yes
< 1272905742 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: see, this is why i don't like you ^
< 1272905753 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Fine, I humoured you: it gives "{{}}" i.e. there are infinite solutions.
< 1272905756 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise - I was trying to thelp you and you just tell me shut up
< 1272905758 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: As expected.
< 1272905763 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: MEH :P
< 1272905768 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know there is some sort of function solver.
< 1272905773 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272905774 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1272905779 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, http://reference.wolfram.com/mathematica/ref/RSolve.html...
< 1272905792 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f[((u+v) * (u+v+1))/2 + u] - (u+v) == 0
< 1272905793 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-)
< 1272905793 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272905804 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is everyone such a dick
< 1272905810 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because
< 1272905816 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"<useless advice>" "that doesn't help in this case"
< 1272905822 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"you don't know anything about <subject>!"
< 1272905833 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't help in this case???
< 1272905855 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey fax
< 1272905858 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1272905881 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Fine then,
< 1272905887 0 :lereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1272905894 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f[u_,v_] := ((u+v) * (u+v+1))/2 + u;
< 1272905900 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :InverseFunction[f]
< 1272905900 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do I even come here everyone hates me or ignores me
< 1272905912 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: f^(-1)
< 1272905916 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: God dammit shut the fuck up; you were a jerk to me. Simple as.
< 1272905937 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr, inversefunction only works on 1-adic functions
< 1272905947 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    * InverseFunction is generated by Solve when the option InverseFunctions is set to Automatic or True.
< 1272905950 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you think you are so smart because you didn't grow up around people of the same age that were smarter than you
< 1272906010 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dear fax; you are batshit insane, insult people when they reject your useless advice, deny irc lines that clearly did happen, whine when people talk to you, ignore people then whine when people ignore you, and insult people's intelligence just because they did some random thing that annoys you.
< 1272906015 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just stop it. FFS.
< 1272906072 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry but I have written highly non-trivial haskell programs and I have been programing for years. I think if you took my advice you could learn something. Is that arrogant? To think I have actually learned something from years of experience?
< 1272906105 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So one day you claim "Haskell sucks it is too hard I don't know how to structure programs properly in it"
< 1272906111 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the next is "I AM EXPERT HASKELL PROGRAMMER".
< 1272906117 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, of course I have used that bijection structure before.
< 1272906126 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :biTo :: (Integer, Integer) -> Integer
< 1272906127 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :biTo (u,v) = triang (u+v) + u
< 1272906127 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  where triang n = n * (n+1) `div` 2
< 1272906127 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :biFro :: Integer -> (Integer,Integer)
< 1272906127 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :biFro n = (m - (n - biTo (0, m)), n - biTo (0, m))
< 1272906128 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  where m = floor (((sqrt (8 * fromInteger n + 1) - 1) / 2) :: Double)
< 1272906129 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How the ROYAL FUCK does it help here?
< 1272906134 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would just be (to, fro)
< 1272906137 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because from references to, anyway
< 1272906138 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you aware that it is an open research problem I was talking about when I said I didn't know how to structure that program?
< 1272906139 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it needs to be bound
< 1272906145 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that one
< 1272906148 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you said it about a general case
< 1272906148 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: We're working on the *algorithm*, not the code?
< 1272906173 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh suddenly I exist, isn't that convenient
< 1272906187 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, for heaven's sake.
< 1272906190 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets just stop arguing about this
< 1272906193 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we're getting pretty solid evidence that fax is actually mentally ill here.
< 1272906209 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Not really helping.
< 1272906216 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never help :)
< 1272906251 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: Considering my program has only one bijection in it, and one half of the bijection references the other, it would have to look like
< 1272906258 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bij = (to, ...)
< 1272906260 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  where to = ...
< 1272906272 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since in fact they both have extra bound definitions, the things they use would be tangled together
< 1272906274 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole thing would be uglier
< 1272906275 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :harder to call
< 1272906277 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for no reason whatsoever.
< 1272906280 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is all.
< 1272906295 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: okay alise if you think you are doing the right thing by all means - don't let me get in the way. You don't have to be nasty about it thoug, I was trying to be constructive
< 1272906305 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't nasty!
< 1272906311 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise is always nasty
< 1272906315 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fax> type Bijection a b = (a -> b, b -> a) <alise> fax: that just makse the code more cluttered
< 1272906335 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I said "yeah yeah shut up :P" before it, which was quite clearly in jest (I thought you were mentioning the fact that
< 1272906340 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used that structure once before and you inquired as to its point.)
< 1272906365 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Not always.
< 1272906378 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Close enough
< 1272906389 0 :MizardX-!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272906429 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, fuck you too :)
< 1272906438 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :come on
< 1272906455 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, you've admitted in the past :-P
< 1272906459 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+it
< 1272906488 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1272906498 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, for heaven's sake!
< 1272906507 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MizardX
< 1272906514 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I'm an asshole, in general; but not nasty, in almost-all specific cases.
< 1272906520 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just nasty often.
< 1272906522 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh, semantics
< 1272906534 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really care though, fax has done his fair share of nastiness to me yesterday and today, so
< 1272906552 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We still need a) a saner bijection and b) a coding that doesn't go mad on loops.
< 1272906558 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, in retaliation
< 1272906562 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have that bijection, Phantom_Hoover.
< 1272906564 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: no.
< 1272906570 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Oh/
< 1272906581 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must have missed it in between the flame war.
< 1272906612 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, just implemented it now.
< 1272906615 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just change +u to +v.
< 1272906627 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But they're equivalent!
< 1272906627 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just want everyone to be nice to me
< 1272906636 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unconditionally
< 1272906646 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ echo ',[.,]' | ./bifro encode | ./bifro decode
< 1272906647 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :,[.,]
< 1272906652 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: See, that is the problem.
< 1272906660 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You cannot be nasty to someone else then expect them to be lovely to you.
< 1272906664 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People are not Jesus.
< 1272906670 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't being nasty to anyone
< 1272906674 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: How does it deal with, say, '[[[]]]'?
< 1272906683 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I beg to differ, so I'm not even going to bother responding any more.
< 1272906687 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: 85492
< 1272906689 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It gives 2^70 with the old bijection.
< 1272906697 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Much* better.
< 1272906704 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got a better bijection than you guys
< 1272906706 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :,[.[-],]?
< 1272906717 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ echo ',[,[-[++]].]-[[[++]+]+]' | ./bifro encode
< 1272906717 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :56046302675444742920145996600032729174513643271562716998685181
< 1272906729 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it still croaks on hello world iirc
< 1272906732 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure
< 1272906743 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :program n = (filter balanced . generate $ ",.+-<>[]") !! n
< 1272906744 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I have the bijection code?
< 1272906748 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the inverse is trivial
< 1272906755 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a lookup table
< 1272906757 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: *VALID*
< 1272906762 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah hello world hangs it for no reason
< 1272906762 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :durppp
< 1272906769 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :learn to read code
< 1272906777 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: doesn't work
< 1272906780 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it does
< 1272906784 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my word against yours
< 1272906787 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, because you might end up with
< 1272906790 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[-]
< 1272906793 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's valid
< 1272906795 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[...every program...]
< 1272906799 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[-]...]
< 1272906802 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[...etc...]...]
< 1272906802 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and never get to
< 1272906807 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+[...]-[.[etc]]
< 1272906810 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong it generates every program in finite time
< 1272906817 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :generate is just n-ary counting
< 1272906820 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax is right, I think.
< 1272906821 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's nice; anyway btw you're being a jerk now
< 1272906826 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:13 < alise> that's nice; anyway btw you're being a jerk now
< 1272906835 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ just admitted that he god pwnd
< 1272906843 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Count up in base 8, then discard the invalid ones.
< 1272906845 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I just don't think it is nearly a good a bijection
< 1272906849 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1272906851 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree.
< 1272906855 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*as good
< 1272906863 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: YOU ARE THE ONE BEING A JERK
< 1272906866 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, fax is talking right now solely for the purpose of trying to annoy me right now, so
< 1272906868 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works, but it's as elegant as a pig with wheels.
< 1272906872 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time to figure out how you ignore in xchat.
< 1272906880 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go
< 1272906890 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: hello world still hangs it
< 1272906906 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers running dbfi through it!
< 1272906911 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are the kind of low tier human that has to tell other people what they are so that you believe it yourself
< 1272906914 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAD IDEA NO
< 1272906923 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: So, what is your nested encoding?
< 1272906924 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are calling me a jerk over and over because you don't want to admit that you are the one being horrible
< 1272906937 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: It doesn't work.
< 1272906944 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought so :P
< 1272906953 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some programs are representable by two sequences.
< 1272906970 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION logreads to find out what fax's response to his ignoring her was; decides not to logread for such purposes any more
< 1272906984 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now on to things that aren't about crazy people.
< 1272906989 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yeah
< 1272906991 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the basic issue
< 1272906992 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You guys are stupid, I can't beleive you've spent 2 days on this and I wrote it in one line of code
< 1272907003 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: Inelegantly.
< 1272907020 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the only way you can justify your termoil and excessive fail is by pretending it's not elegant
< 1272907020 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shouldn't feed the troll...
< 1272907023 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your one line includes two undefined identifiers
< 1272907032 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Fuck you. You're a fucking wanke
< 1272907038 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: what the fuck would you know
< 1272907042 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And presumably runs a fair bit slower than the one the others've got
< 1272907060 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I hope you have a heart attack, fuck you
< 1272907102 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fucking pathetic simple minded idiots
< 1272907113 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: So, better encoding now?
< 1272907115 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise calls me a jerk and ignores me, therefore I must be a troll
< 1272907123 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahahaha.
< 1272907137 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously this is like reddit
< 1272907141 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this channel
< 1272907230 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pokes head above battlements
< 1272907268 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. LostKng has 20963 loops...
< 1272907290 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forget it.
< 1272907301 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's probably somewhere in the region of xkcd.
< 1272907375 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: How far does it nest?
< 1272907457 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Too far
< 1272907461 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially considering it was compiled
< 1272907503 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From what?
< 1272907519 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just some hacked-together decision tree compiler?
< 1272907597 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BFBASIC
< 1272907639 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you tried just leaving HW to encode for a few hours?
< 1272907642 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... now /I/ feel an urge to write a BASIC->BF compiler
< 1272907663 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No; considering that the translation just ends up being simple recursion plus a lot of lot of arithmetic, it is almost certainly memory allocation it hangs on.
< 1272907669 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By which token, it's either very, VERY big, or too big.
< 1272907689 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's loops that do it.
< 1272907707 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know why everyone is so nasty
< 1272907720 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what the state-of-the-art is in constant string -> BF to generate it.
< 1272907724 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you post the triangular bijection functions?
< 1272907735 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Want the code?
< 1272907740 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1272907741 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know you are struggling alise but I know you are strong enough not to have to take it out on me
< 1272907757 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I think HW could be optimised for this by eliminating loops.
< 1272907805 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course.
< 1272907807 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/943767.txt?key=qjqgkkxho8wjgybmhdww
< 1272907832 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how we rely on real arithmetic being at least SLIGHTLY accurate.
< 1272907839 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's such an... amusingly inaccurate assumption.
< 1272907846 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: A hacked-together decision tree compiler? Why, that's *my* effort at doing a text adventure game in Brainfuck!
< 1272907872 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and I should note: Yes, I wrote it. No, I do not have a game for it. Just the engine. :P
< 1272907884 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I estimate that with the enumeration I'm trying to figure out, enumeration of LostKng would be around 2^153 000 000 (assuming enumeration of structure encoding is low)...
< 1272907948 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I do know that the halting problem is unsolvable in general, but I was not sure whether there did not exist special case exceptions. Like, maybe Matlab might function as a Super Turing machine able to determine the halting of the bf program."
< 1272907956 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"SECOND EDIT: I have written what I purport to be infinite loop detector. It probably misses some edge cases (or less probably, somehow escapes Mr. Turing's clutches), but seems to work for me as of now. In pseudocode form, here it goes:"
< 1272907971 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From where?
< 1272908007 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stackoverflow.com/questions/367571/detecting-infinite-loop-in-brainfuck-program
< 1272908017 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I have created a truly marvelous program to do this, which this textbox is too narrow to contain." --comment
< 1272908046 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LAME
< 1272908055 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that joke is so old it makes me physically sick hearing it
< 1272908115 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: But it's clearly possible sometimes.
< 1272908129 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmh, ++++++++++[>+++++++>++++] encodes to a 3.2 million digit number.
< 1272908144 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I estimate between 46 020 000 and 46 030 000 base-10 digits...
< 1272908153 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A word of advice: Avoid loops.
< 1272908164 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/SYFg
< 1272908170 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was some fun code 3 years ago.
< 1272908223 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pity I never made it into an actual game.
< 1272908235 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what move is...
< 1272908248 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(oh, yes, if you want the source I can tarball it up)
< 1272908283 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>[-]<<[->>+<<] > 4*10^1185
< 1272908307 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: hey, you could implement basic with pebble
< 1272908313 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :write the basic primitives as pebble macros
< 1272908320 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use tcl to read code from stdin, translate to pebble primitives
< 1272908320 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: It would be quite feasible.
< 1272908340 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PEBBLE is sufficiently high-level to make targetting it not a pain.
< 1272908354 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pebble?
< 1272908370 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Practical Esoteric Brainfuck-Based Language, Eh?
< 1272908386 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a macro language for Brainfuck I wrote a few years back.
< 1272908429 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, gosub/return is easy with computed gotos, which is easy with the standard method of BF labels.
< 1272908460 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup.
< 1272908470 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOSUB x := Put (CURRENT LINE), which we know at compile-time, somewhere global; GOTO x
< 1272908476 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RETURN := GOTO (GLOBAL PLACE)
< 1272908566 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("Line numbers" would just be labels, really, since you'd want to normalise them anyway.)
< 1272908615 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah, I might run out of memory on ++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++++>]
< 1272908746 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can we generalise this?
< 1272908759 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Generalise what?
< 1272908768 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This bijection.
< 1272908770 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bijection?
< 1272908771 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1272908776 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :consider that for any nested data type
< 1272908787 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can assign a constant C_n to all n non-nesters
< 1272908800 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For all languages in which the syntax is equivalent to a nested list of nats?
< 1272908800 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then, say the thing has one nester
< 1272908803 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with only one argument, the nester
< 1272908812 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :represent this as {nested}
< 1272908821 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this produces an arbitrarily nested list of nats
< 1272908824 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apply the bijection; Q.E.D.
< 1272908839 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more than one nester: set the constants such that they are all, say, even
< 1272908845 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then make one nester have all its subterms odd, and the other even
< 1272908848 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something
< 1272908864 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lazy K seems like it would lend itself to bijection.
< 1272908875 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gee, what about jot! wait.
< 1272908914 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:38:03 <Phantom_Hoover> >>[-]<<[->>+<<] > 4*10^1185
< 1272908915 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow :)
< 1272908972 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you get something much smaller if you don't double the moves.
< 1272908993 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>10^71, admittedly, but still.
< 1272909031 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are all strings of 0 and 1 valid in Jot?
< 1272909051 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, ++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++++>] finished
< 1272909059 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A 733741052-digit number
< 1272909070 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Save it, quickly!
< 1272909082 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, I just piped it into wc :-P
< 1272909134 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bifro should ideally have the capacity to write the number in base 256 with a string of bytes.
< 1272909142 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Much more compact.
< 1272909156 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your decoder is broken, btw; probably the double-cast
< 1272909169 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the point of putting brainfuck programs in bijection with natural numbers?
< 1272909172 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes.
< 1272909189 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"What's the point" is rarely a sensible question on this channel
< 1272909189 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every string of 0 and 1 is valid, including the empty string.
< 1272909201 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: Putting Brainfuck programs in a bijection with natural numbers.
< 1272909207 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Then it's trivial.
< 1272909215 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes.
< 1272909236 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just stick a 1 on the start and make it binary.
< 1272909237 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jot is intended as a Goedel numbering. :)
< 1272909252 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, what?
< 1272909259 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, forget that.
< 1272909266 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No 1 is needed.
< 1272909278 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Just use the freaking number*.
< 1272909291 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Deewiant> Your decoder is broken, btw; probably the double-cast
< 1272909292 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what double cast
< 1272909306 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: fromInteger
< 1272909310 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: no
< 1272909312 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :consider 0001
< 1272909319 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, it is broken.
< 1272909320 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: what would you propose then
< 1272909330 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/
< 1272909333 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: A custom sqrt that works on Integer.
< 1272909334 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo ">[-]<[->+<]" | ./bifro encode | ./bifro decode
< 1272909341 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[
< 1272909342 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Bah, okay.
< 1272909348 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Generic_number_type#squareRoot
< 1272909351 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just blasts you with [[[[
< 1272909353 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION writes it
< 1272909385 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(^!) :: Num a => a -> Int -> a
< 1272909386 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(^!) x n = x^n
< 1272909388 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders why
< 1272909391 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, for type specification
< 1272909393 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(why)
< 1272909400 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably an optimization
< 1272909403 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1272909447 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is biFro working? The function, not the program.
< 1272909461 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1272909467 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Can I use isqrt? There's a /2.
< 1272909472 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I am not sure the result is always divisible by two.
< 1272909481 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :++++++++++[>+++++++] at least comes out correctly now.
< 1272909498 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Wasn't it being floored? `div` 2
< 1272909504 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, true.
< 1272909505 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Mmm, yes.
< 1272909505 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: i can't beleive you are talking this long to solve a quadratic equation. lol
< 1272909509 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Now.
< 1272909513 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: gimme a number that didn't work
< 1272909529 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: It works now, I already copied squareRoot into it myself.
< 1272909531 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that was too optimistic estimate. But I estimate that Lost Kindom encodes to less than 10^(10^8)...
< 1272909539 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: But, e.g. '+++++++'.
< 1272909550 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Kingdom
< 1272909553 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5695183504492614029263277.
< 1272909568 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Do you think that I should change how loops are encoded?
< 1272909569 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'K8'@*+'E28'@**+'%2'@f2+**+"I$@"*+"/KHQa"738*+345'@**+*****+****
< 1272909570 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just not sure how.
< 1272909584 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All other efforts have failed
< 1272909585 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Reassuring to know
< 1272909593 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you should if you find a way to ;-)
< 1272909594 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's less than a googolple, at least
< 1272909615 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This program has rekindled my love affair with Haskell.
< 1272909621 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Is it a love affair if you don't have any other partners?)
< 1272909636 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((This applies in both the programming and otherwise meanings.))
< 1272909654 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah, Lazy K is trivial. How about Unlambda?
< 1272909654 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come back up, pastie!
< 1272909656 0 :adam_d!~Adam@cpc2-acto6-0-0-cust48.brnt.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272909657 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to deliver version 4!
< 1272909657 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay
< 1272909658 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No 3.
< 1272909664 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Off by one there :D
< 1272909676 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Version three, guyz: http://pastie.org/943801.txt?key=uwdomh4k9krj16tc9ezw
< 1272909679 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Update your copies.
< 1272909772 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :++[+[+[+[+[++++]+]+]+]+]++ generates a 6264 digit number
< 1272909799 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has an idea
< 1272909801 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How very short
< 1272909805 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of
< 1272909806 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :loop xs = crush xs + 6
< 1272909807 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about
< 1272909812 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :loop xs = crush (map (+ 6) xs)
< 1272909812 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1272909815 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's 6263, not 6264
< 1272909817 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would this work, I wonder?
< 1272909818 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The newline isn't part of it
< 1272909823 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, [] would = [[]] :/
< 1272909830 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Oh, I forgot echo -n
< 1272909831 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: That's even worse!
< 1272909840 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: is it?
< 1272909845 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait [] would not = [[]]
< 1272909854 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crush [] = 0; [0] = 1+biTo(0,0)
< 1272909858 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: That won't help unless you meant echo 'brainfuck' | echo -n $(foo encode) | wc -c
< 1272909862 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := 1
< 1272909866 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely increasing pre-crush means that the crushed list is much larger?
< 1272909866 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, darn
< 1272909867 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't work
< 1272909871 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: that's what i meant
< 1272909875 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err...
< 1272909876 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what?
< 1272909877 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did
< 1272909882 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ echo butt | ./bifro encode
< 1272909882 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which actually doesn't work, that's interesting
< 1272909886 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(actually via terminal but)
< 1272909887 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copy it
< 1272909893 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo, paste, | wc -c
< 1272909906 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, need to wrap the whole thing *duh*
< 1272909914 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Hmm... maybe, yeah.
< 1272909936 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: You know you can pipe the output of a program without having to copy-echo-paste :-P
< 1272909947 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I know, I just forgot the first time.
< 1272909949 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wanted to see what it'd look like.
< 1272909958 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, these numbers often repeat.
< 1272909964 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lots and lots of 77s and 777s in that progam's number
< 1272909967 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again, lots of 88s too
< 1272909968 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And 444s
< 1272909973 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe they just repeat naturally, or maybe it's just a coincidence.
< 1272910171 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any limit to the languages this can represent?
< 1272910277 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!~Phantom_H@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272910280 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It cannot represent the language of love.
< 1272910293 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the language of love well-defined?
< 1272910297 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apart from that, uh, the reals? But we can't construct the reals so it'd be pointless to apply such an algorithm to them.
< 1272910310 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But anything countable, which is... all programming languages?, yes, has a bijection to the naturals. By definition.
< 1272910323 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, yes.
< 1272910332 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But using this system?
< 1272910351 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well... I don't know. It would have to be changed in all cases; sometimes minorly, sometimes it might be completely unrecognisable.
< 1272910355 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's hard to answer.
< 1272910367 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The syntax needs to be representable using nested lists, I think.
< 1272910374 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of naturals
< 1272910382 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With an upper bound.
< 1272910447 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the only problem is the multiple nesting case.
< 1272910452 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I am sure you can do that as something.
< 1272910457 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Multiple nesting?
< 1272910459 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1272910469 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like instead of just [] {} too
< 1272910469 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1272910482 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!~Phantom_H@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272910497 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh.
< 1272910529 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they're properly nested, it shouldn't matter.
< 1272910545 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So long as {(}) isn't legal.
< 1272910555 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but it's just a question of "how do you represent it" because lists only have one type of nesting.
< 1272910559 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One way would be
< 1272910563 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say all instructions are even
< 1272910569 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then one type of loop would increase so that it's even
< 1272910572 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another would increase so it's odd
< 1272910577 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can identify which, I think
< 1272910584 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something
< 1272910590 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or you could just encode the information into the list.
< 1272910593 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e.,
< 1272910607 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :odd_naturals[crush(looptype1)] + N
< 1272910611 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even_naturals[crush(looptype2)] + N
< 1272910618 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with some munging so that all naturals are covered by this)
< 1272910637 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :repeat with similar spacings for all M types of loop
< 1272910639 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, well, nesting in general
< 1272910669 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, have we proven that, taking g(n) to be the triangular cdr, the recurrence relation u_n+1=g(u_n) ends up at 0 for all u_0?
< 1272910727 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION 's brain flags up "LOOKS LIKE COLLATZ BE SCARED"
< 1272910730 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shuts up stupid heuristics
< 1272910733 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Triangular cdr?
< 1272910742 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in "snd (biFro (n-1))"?
< 1272910745 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1272910747 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or "snd (biFro n)"?
< 1272910762 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming the latter,
< 1272910767 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :g(n) = snd(biFro n)
< 1272910803 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this simplifies to (n - biTo ((isqrt (8*n+1) - 1) `div` 2))
< 1272910804 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever, it just needs to be shown that we get a finite list from all n.
< 1272910824 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehh, I'll just code it an test it empiraclly
< 1272910826 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*empirically
< 1272910829 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the best way to prove anything
< 1272910837 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this to check that all numbers give a finite program?
< 1272910839 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1272910865 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: You can't test *all* nats!
< 1272910880 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want your computer.
< 1272910888 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, but I can be reasonably sure of something!
< 1272910892 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the lazy-fucktard's way of proving something.
< 1272910922 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, u_0 = 0 falsifies it.
< 1272910934 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But we special-case 0 in the recursion, so nyah.
< 1272910935 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But ignoring /that/,
< 1272910942 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- uh, I really should make it stop on 0s
< 1272910946 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :silly me
< 1272910959 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[1]
< 1272910960 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[2,1]
< 1272910961 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[3]
< 1272910962 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[4,1]
< 1272910964 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[5,2,1]
< 1272910976 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> ulist 10000
< 1272910977 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[10000,130,10]
< 1272910977 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> ulist 100000
< 1272910977 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[100000,319,19,4,1]
< 1272910988 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, I should use quickcheck!
< 1272910999 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And smallcheck! And lazy smallcheck!
< 1272911013 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why!
< 1272911016 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why instead of QuickCheck!
< 1272911032 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's not a *proof*!
< 1272911035 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said "and" not "instead of"!
< 1272911040 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes but why!
< 1272911044 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because!
< 1272911051 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: YOU JUST CAN'T HANDLE EMPIRICAL MATHEMATICS
< 1272911054 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You do it!
< 1272911057 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No!
< 1272911068 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: THERE'S NO SUCH THING!
< 1272911095 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Uh, there is actually.
< 1272911099 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Verifya:P
< 1272911101 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*:P
< 1272911110 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really?
< 1272911113 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can get more confidence in a proposition forall n, P(n) by testing P(n) for many n.
< 1272911128 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol confidence
< 1272911134 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*More* confidence, not certainty.
< 1272911134 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't outright *prove* it, but this is why people have computers searching for counterexamples to the Collatz conjecture.
< 1272911139 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure is engineering in here
< 1272911144 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathematics isn't /all/ about proofs.
< 1272911182 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan's proof seemed to use the fact that 1+f(u, v) > u and v.
< 1272911210 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's somewhere in today's logs, and it should be adjustable for the triangular function.
< 1272911232 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, this is almost true.
< 1272911243 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, wait, it is true.
< 1272911245 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q.E.D.
< 1272911267 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So since 1+f(u,v) > u and v,
< 1272911281 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f^-1(n-1) < u and v
< 1272911291 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, the result always gets smaller.
< 1272911302 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since this is the naturals, the only value it can approach if it always gets smaller is 0.
< 1272911309 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 always terminates, for it results in [].
< 1272911315 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore, the function always terminates. Q.E.D.
< 1272911322 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good.
< 1272911341 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now we just need to write the wiki page.
< 1272911346 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, rather, I mean:
< 1272911358 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If (u,v) = f^-1(n-1), u and v < n
< 1272911363 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think. Anyway, it's true.
< 1272911376 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: I'd like to think about making loops better first. And there isn't much to write.
< 1272911389 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Silly language: BF, but in Bifro syntax.
< 1272911405 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't run non-trivial programs, because they don't fit into the universe.
< 1272911418 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's very theoretically Turing complete only. :P
< 1272911429 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That still confuses me, BtW.
< 1272911429 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you produced an interpreter with no, or not many at all, nested brackets...
< 1272911433 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why?
< 1272911444 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How something can be TC but not possible in the universe like that?
< 1272911459 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise unignore me
< 1272911466 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because mathematics is larger than the universe; that's why we can say "for all" and it means "every natural", not "everything up to 10^80 or so"
< 1272911478 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I get that.
< 1272911481 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise
< 1272911706 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ping
< 1272911740 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ping pong
< 1272911749 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's play ... NETWORK TABLE TENNIS!
< 1272911759 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ping. Pong. Ping. Pong. Pingpongpingpongpingpong connection dropped.
< 1272912177 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ping
< 1272912216 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... More random ideas for noop.
< 1272912229 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :orly
< 1272912240 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if they'll work, though.
< 1272912274 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, does hugeness come mainly from loops?
< 1272912302 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1272912334 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to have frozen on "+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++"
< 1272912370 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Pong
< 1272912376 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It *should* only be quadratic...
< 1272912442 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I realised that my typesetting system can easily be used for literate programming too.
< 1272912449 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Why not evaluate it manually?
< 1272912546 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Some hypothetical usage: http://pastie.org/943852.txt?key=321l5gwchzzohrrzdehmzg
< 1272912555 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using the evilly-named commands \, \\, and \\=.
< 1272912963 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.literateprogramming.com/adventure.pdf ADVENTURE, the literate program.
< 1272913020 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Penned by Knuth himself.
< 1272913030 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tried "++++++++++++++++++". It comes out as a 50085-digit number.
< 1272913070 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm.
< 1272913077 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My problem is that I can't see what's in the lower numbers. There must be some *enormous* trivial ones.
< 1272913159 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: well it's not quadratic because biTo is nested tons, right?
< 1272913167 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there's a ton of /nested/ multiplications
< 1272913180 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, yeah
< 1272913269 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I advise everyone to read http://www.literateprogramming.com/adventure.pdf, by the way.
< 1272913309 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If I were writing this program, I would allow the word woods, but Don apparently didn’t want to."
< 1272913314 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn INTERCALator.
< 1272913323 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INTERCALator, n. one who uses INTERCAL.
< 1272913385 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dislike how it has visible spaces in strings, but eh
< 1272913464 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mess wd ("fuck");
< 1272913465 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :new mess ("Watch it!");
< 1272913557 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :27. The instructions here keep you in the forest with probability 50%, otherwise they take you to the
< 1272913557 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woods . This gives the illusion that we maintain more state information about you than we really do.
< 1272913652 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, fax's method may have been mathematically inelegant, but at least it would have given sane numbers.
< 1272913705 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would it have? I beg to differ.
< 1272913716 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it would enumerate all programs with loops of length N before getting onto a single one with N+1.
< 1272913726 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that's the thing.
< 1272913793 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you count up in base 8, using the instructions as the digits, until you reach the program, then discard the invalid programs, the length of what's left is a bijection
< 1272913813 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: fuck off troll
< 1272913815 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would take ages to compute, though.
< 1272913816 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The twisty little passages of this maze are said to be all alike,"
< 1272913820 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: I know.
< 1272913824 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it would enumerate all programs with loops of length N before getting onto a single one with N+1.
< 1272913830 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which would mean the numbers would not be reasonable.
< 1272913841 0 :impomatic!~chatzilla@87.112.36.213.plusnet.ptn-ag1.dyn.plus.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272913844 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi :-)
< 1272913845 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@129.241.210.68 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272913857 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: yeah the numbers relating to the size of the program.. that must be unreasonable
< 1272913861 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: No, it wouldn't.
< 1272913898 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi, have you rewritten bi{Fro,To} to use triangular numbers yet?
< 1272913902 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes
< 1272913903 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it works
< 1272913908 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but we need a better loop nester
< 1272913922 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw i realized after i logged out that there is a way to do the floor exactly
< 1272913926 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/943801.txt?key=uwdomh4k9krj16tc9ezw
< 1272913930 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  where m = (isqrt (8*n+1) - 1) `div` 2
< 1272913937 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: we did not use your algorithm
< 1272913941 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie got a computer to invert it, hooray
< 1272913943 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :biFro n = (m - (n - biTo (m,0)), n - biTo (m,0))
< 1272913944 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok you found that formula too
< 1272913944 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  where m = (isqrt (8*n+1) - 1) `div` 2
< 1272913948 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is for
< 1272913948 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :biTo (u,v) = triang (u+v) + v
< 1272913949 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  where triang n = n * (n+1) `div` 2
< 1272913949 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of +u
< 1272913952 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: lol
< 1272913968 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're sad now :))
< 1272913977 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well u,v, is the same thing
< 1272913983 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that the number for a program of length n with fax's method must be less than 8^n, but there may be an off-by-one in that.
< 1272914011 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: why sad?  just because you found what i would have suggested?
< 1272914023 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what algorithm didn't you use?
< 1272914035 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one you suggested with the floor of sqrt 2n
< 1272914039 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1272914049 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno, I get sad when my discoveries aren't a prodigal genius one :-)
< 1272914051 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ones
< 1272914078 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i realized that the (x+y)(x-y) rule could be used to make it exact instead, with that 8*n+1 etc. thing
< 1272914080 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who are you to judge what is mathematically elegant?
< 1272914116 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway i'm not sad.  today i forgot a ballpoint pen in my laundry, first time for me afair
< 1272914142 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i expected complete disaster, but both the sweater and the pen appear to have survived :)
< 1272914163 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it even wrote when i tested)
< 1272914206 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1272914374 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: this is the kind of thing all mathematicians get happy about, isn't it...
< 1272914377 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can just tell from the way you say it :D
< 1272914413 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know how much other mathematicians forget pens in their laundry, might be an occupational danger...
< 1272914437 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hazard, is more idiomatic.
< 1272914439 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just i'm usually careful about it
< 1272914441 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah.
< 1272914467 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's wrong with the loop nesting?
< 1272914485 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing, mathematically,
< 1272914489 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we do "crush xs" which makes a ruddy big number, then later on we crush that /again/ to flatten the whole program
< 1272914491 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use pencils
< 1272914493 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now consider nested loops
< 1272914495 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just generates bloody huge numbers.
< 1272914497 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :feel the pain, FEEEEEL the pain
< 1272914534 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No-one's computed the number for a non-trivial program much longer than cat.
< 1272914536 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i _did_ think about it a bit when away, on long lists it would tend to blow the final parts up more than the beginning, wouldn't it?
< 1272914566 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i didn't think the nesting of loops would be the problem...
< 1272914571 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also that, yes!
< 1272914574 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it blows up a lot more with that
< 1272914576 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it IS that...
< 1272914584 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought of a way around it
< 1272914588 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, what?
< 1272914597 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: do tell
< 1272914610 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically store a list as a tree instead, so tuples spread out more balancedly
< 1272914637 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this requires some care to make sure we don't miss numbers, i think
< 1272914638 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main Data.List> elemIndex ",[.,]" . filter balanced . kleene . map (:[]) $ "-+<>,.[]"
< 1272914639 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just 9316
< 1272914645 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... What would the structure for ",[.,]"?
< 1272914649 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think my loop conjecture about fax's may be wrong :(
< 1272914653 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hey hey
< 1272914656 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was Ilari's idea
< 1272914668 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: oh well i guess :D
< 1272914676 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STEALING FILTH :p
< 1272914677 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*:P
< 1272914678 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also mentioned this alise did not understand it
< 1272914687 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except i thought that it is necessary to give each list a _unique_ tree
< 1272914699 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main Data.List> elemIndex ",[.[-],]" . filter balanced . kleene . map (:[]) $ "-+<>,.[]"
< 1272914700 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[nothing]
< 1272914703 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This thing is biased against EOF on 0
< 1272914714 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conclusion: Not a viable computational algorithm.
< 1272914721 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1272914733 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's even worse if you try to reverse it.
< 1272914737 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um what's kleene
< 1272914742 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :v a 0 = [[]]
< 1272914742 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :v a i = [s++t | s <- v a (i-1), t <- a]
< 1272914742 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kleene a = kleene' a 0
< 1272914742 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  where kleene' a n = v a n ++ kleene' a (n+1)
< 1272914744 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kleene star
< 1272914751 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so kleene on that generates all valid and invalid bf progams
< 1272914753 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*programs
< 1272914758 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then we filter to get only balanced ones, and look up the prog
< 1272914765 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax was yelling at us to use this instead because it's soooo trivial
< 1272914772 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it seems it does not like being computed. maybe it'd be better with fusion
< 1272914800 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's trivial in terms of the algorithm, but it's even worse than ours in terms of practicality.
< 1272914820 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's because you don't know how to implement it efficently
< 1272914843 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look up stirling numbers if you are serious about this
< 1272914898 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: Your method requires that we enumerate *every* valid program up to x, a huge computation.
< 1272915050 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :take a class on counting
< 1272915061 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do this efficently
< 1272915079 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, briefly describe the algorithm.
< 1272915092 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: take back what you said earlier
< 1272915103 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> hey oerjan log-reading <-- hello
< 1272915103 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? That it's inelegant?
< 1272915110 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: you called me a troll
< 1272915120 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You *were* trolling.
< 1272915129 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k bye
< 1272915146 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fine.
< 1272915172 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i said something to you :P
< 1272915182 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone any idea what his magic algorithm is?
< 1272915205 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> "plus or minus any off-by-one errors"; says oerjan
< 1272915206 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I pity those who have too much pride to admit they are wrong
< 1272915224 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: i'd tell you, but you're NASTY
< 1272915227 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there weren't any in that formula, amazingly
< 1272915234 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes you've had a reply-latency of a FEW MINUTES!
< 1272915239 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: i noticed.  the logs are just huge today.
< 1272915242 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: off-by-one errors are, like, the scourge of everything
< 1272915246 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272915253 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Bank holiday in the UK.
< 1272915260 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume.
< 1272915261 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :off by one errors are something you learn to avoid when you are beginner
< 1272915275 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you are still stuggling with them it's time to go over he basics again
< 1272915296 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now you're insulting the channel op?
< 1272915298 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :statement to nothing?
< 1272915304 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh fax
< 1272915308 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im not insulting anyone
< 1272915335 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I suppose you'll just accuse us of fabricating what you said two minutes ago.
< 1272915384 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: How do you encode the BF program into a tree?
< 1272915399 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And is it easily flattenable into a natural?
< 1272915430 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<BF> ::= \epsilon | <INST> <BF> | '[ <BF> ']'
< 1272915441 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<INST> ::= '+' | '-' | ...
< 1272915456 0 :adam_d!~Adam@cpc2-acto6-0-0-cust48.brnt.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272915476 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BNF is a pretty basic technique from computing, dates back to ALGOL
< 1272915487 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yeah.
< 1272915505 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: i said it might contain off-by-one errors because i didn't bother to check before writing it, i knew that was the essence apart from it.  although it was also accidentally completely correct.
< 1272915541 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: i've been mentioning algebraic data types before, for this problem that's about equivalent
< 1272915559 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afk
< 1272915606 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway i though that if the length of the list is 2^n+1 <= l < 2^n, we use a tree of depth n
< 1272915633 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with all empty nodes at either the left end or the right one
< 1272915638 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, how would you treeify "+++"?
< 1272915662 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however _some_ of the nodes are just tuples, others are variants (haskell Either)
< 1272915675 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either tuple variants!
< 1272915680 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either tuple Either
< 1272915697 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as ((Empty,+),(+,+)) but with some care there
< 1272915724 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lessee...
< 1272915747 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I must leave for now. I'll look at the logs later.
< 1272915755 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Phantom_Hoover_
< 1272915791 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Tree a = Leaf a | Branch (Tree a) (CompleteTree a)
< 1272915803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/A-Real-TriState.aspx <-- this is to tristate as filenotfound is to boolean
< 1272915804 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not bothering to incorporate the depth
< 1272915808 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very wtf
< 1272915860 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3, 5, ...
< 1272915863 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait, maybe i'll do that with a "dependent n", not legal haskell but more descriptive
< 1272915870 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly, size_of_presumably(n) = odds[n]
< 1272915940 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1272915956 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing about the CompleteTree part is that we know the depth from the left part of the branch, so we can just use tuples without variants down to the bottom
< 1272915988 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually we need an Empty | in that i think
< 1272916036 0 :adam_d!~Adam@cpc2-acto6-0-0-cust48.brnt.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272916061 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is possible that it needs another data type PossiblyEmptyTree a :D
< 1272916116 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait of course we have the empty list too hm
< 1272916126 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EmptyTreeWithProbabilityOnePointSeventyFive
< 1272916151 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data EmptyTreeWithProbabilityOnePointSeventyFive = Empty1 | Empty2 | Empty3 | NotEmpty Tree
< 1272916161 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the constructors are hidden and a function uses unsafePerformIO to return one of these randomly)
< 1272916325 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lessee to get this started
< 1272916337 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an empty list = 0
< 1272916355 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*tree, surely.
< 1272916355 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a single element list [x] = 1+2*x
< 1272916419 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well tree or list, it's about the number of elements
< 1272916462 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a larger list/tree than that is 2+2*f(left part, right part)
< 1272916484 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> a single element list [x] = 1+2*x
< 1272916490 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about [[x]]?
< 1272916503 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do we not have that?
< 1272916522 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um the inner [x] is using the ordinary 6+crush [x] stuff
< 1272916528 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it's a single element
< 1272916543 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right.
< 1272916551 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so this is to solve the problem that crush is horrible?
< 1272916555 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1272916560 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the algorithm for distributing the tree?
< 1272916561 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or try, at least
< 1272916583 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i think the best is simply all elements as far to the left in the tree as possible
< 1272916600 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(since the opposite is harder to collect in haskell, i think)
< 1272916643 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't this actually bigger than the list encoding
< 1272916647 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... we timesify the f
< 1272916652 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if we go the left part, then...
< 1272916667 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um no because we have less depth of nesting of f's
< 1272916674 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or so i think
< 1272916710 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? why?
< 1272916725 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you said distribute everything to the left.
< 1272916736 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that's not what i meant
< 1272916743 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the tree is perfectly balanced
< 1272916766 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that the left over empty parts from 2^n-x should be put at the right end
< 1272916816 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing about is: see the 2+2*f(left part, right part) thing?
< 1272916840 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we distribute like this, we know that "left part" is a _complete_ tree with 2^(n-1) leafs
< 1272916862 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means we need no variants when encoding it
< 1272916874 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure
< 1272916882 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i vote you write the code and i relax
< 1272916885 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me try to show what +++ is, if my brain grasps it
< 1272917058 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2+2*f(f(+,+),1+2*f(2*(+),0))
< 1272917064 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i'm _not_ sure of that :D
< 1272917072 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okayyy
< 1272917073 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::Dd
< 1272917075 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*:D
< 1272917105 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing is to use variants (Either) splits only where we know there _can_ be a split
< 1272917140 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this leads to a number of cases for how a subtree is encoded.
< 1272917220 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's a left branch of something with a nonempty right branch, then we know it is a full tree, like in that f(+,+) part, and we need not bother with possibility of leafs or empty nodes - we already know the depth from the right branch
< 1272917251 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjah, http://i.imgur.com/F0q6m.jpg
< 1272917283 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't say.
< 1272917352 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now for the right branch of the top, we know that it cannot be an empty tree (since then we'd just need one level less) and so it's 1+ rather than 2+
< 1272917377 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could still be a leaf though, thus the 1+2* to show it's not
< 1272917410 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although that subtree contains just 1 leaf, we still make it depth 2 so all branches are the same depth)
< 1272917428 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now the right branch of the right branch is empty, thus 0
< 1272917482 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the left branch of the right branch is a leaf, so 2*leaf value (there is no possibility of this being empty, for the same reason as before, so no 1+)
< 1272917518 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan*
< 1272917522 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and having looked at the right branch of the whole tree like this, we now know that the tree depth is 2, and can use f(+,+) for the tree's left branch
< 1272917566 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as already mentioned)
< 1272917583 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that we look at the right branch to find the information about the depth of the left branch
< 1272917657 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now that /is/ overcomplicated :D
< 1272917689 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah all that complication is to ensure no numbers encode a tree that cannot be gotten from a list
< 1272917755 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sheesh, ADVENT has really simple code
< 1272917764 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't even have proper conditionals, or even code, in the adventure part
< 1272917769 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw i also thought of another possible list encoding, but that might be harder to invert
< 1272917773 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a huge table of boolean things, and rules for directions/commands at each place
< 1272917775 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without even code!
< 1272917794 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically l -> (length l, encoding of tuple l using _multiple_ binomial coefficients)
< 1272917851 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc (x1,x2,...,xn) -> binom (x1+x2+...+xn, n) + binom(x1+x2+...+x(n-1), n-1) + ... + x1
< 1272917884 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the generalization of the triangular method to N^n <-> N
< 1272917904 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh so this is basically the bijection we have but to ^n?
< 1272917909 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1272917915 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if anyone else has written an N^n <-> N bijection
< 1272917918 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't find one
< 1272917922 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like something that could Come In Handy.
< 1272917933 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however it's going to be harder to invert, probably requires something with nth root
< 1272917970 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: i think we mentioned this one when fax discussed finite integrals at one time
< 1272917982 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's presumably well-known
< 1272917986 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah the C stuff
< 1272917986 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc
< 1272917988 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in C()
< 1272917989 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and T()
< 1272917991 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a lot of that
< 1272917994 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :binom aka C
< 1272917998 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1272918001 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, I know that :P
< 1272918008 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i think the C involved had three arguments?
< 1272918009 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess not
< 1272918031 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think so
< 1272918121 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"# (If you hit the bear after feeding it:) The bear is confused; he only wants to be your friend."
< 1272918126 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--[[Colossal Cave Adventure]]
< 1272918202 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and then there was the fibonacci idea i've mentioned before
< 1272918219 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for encoding a list
< 1272918244 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh?
< 1272918244 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it requires converting to/from fibonacci base as well as binary though
< 1272918275 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically in fibonacci base any number >= 1 starts with 1, then some series of 0,1 with _no_ instance of 11
< 1272918338 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means if you concatenate numbers in fibonacci base with 1 intercalated between, you get a bitstring and this process is reversible
< 1272918361 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah that
< 1272918374 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but we need the reversibility to apply to all nats
< 1272918420 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, i'm a bit fishy on what is missed this way
< 1272918454 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or well, _any_ bitstring starting with 1 can clearly be split up at points where you have 11
< 1272918475 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait
< 1272918484 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11 at beginning and end may be subtle
< 1272918573 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and several 11 in a row too
< 1272918601 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly 0 should be the empty string in fibonacci, or does that make things worse...
< 1272918658 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, anywhere you get 110 you have a clear split, the first 1 must be the separator
< 1272918707 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1272918728 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one nice thing about this is that loops would only blow up by about log_2 phi
< 1272918736 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in bitsize)
< 1272918758 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well any list element, really
< 1272918779 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe a bit more for small elements
< 1272918866 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok you cannot have 0 as empty string, 111 could mean either ,1, or ,0,0, in that case
< 1272918887 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dear oerjan,
< 1272918888 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are crazy
< 1272918889 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-alise
< 1272918892 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you
< 1272918933 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: now finish figuring out the encoding, i'll even implement it :P
< 1272918936 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now if you have 111110 say, we know that's 111++[10..,...]
< 1272918970 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a 11 at the end can only be ,1 i think
< 1272918993 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so if we have several 11 in a row we can nest them up from the back
< 1272919022 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :little-endian is probably good for this stuff
< 1272919049 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait, big-endian for encoding _into_ fibonacci
< 1272919112 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11 alone, what does that mean
< 1272919131 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you cannot get that from concatenating stuff :(
< 1272919177 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are some loose ends there :D
< 1272919217 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1272919234 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you cannot get a bitstring starting with 110 in this way either
< 1272919324 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!~Phantom_H@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272919338 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so what have you got now?
< 1272919354 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to something with fibonacci base
< 1272919361 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fibonacci!
< 1272919369 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alas it seems to miss some bitstrings
< 1272919379 0 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272919453 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm working on chaos based music
< 1272919463 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you cannot get bitstrings starting with an even number of 1's
< 1272919475 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: ok merzbow
< 1272919481 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well fix that
< 1272919554 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it seems that adding 1 toggles between legal and illegal, so we can encode a Bool in addition to the list ;)
< 1272919572 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*prepending
< 1272919665 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but stop cheating :D
< 1272919764 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i can cheat _more_ by merging that Bool with the first list element (2*x-b)
< 1272919784 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but why
< 1272919821 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm to get a bijection with non-empty lists of integers >= 1.  at least that may be what we get
< 1272919843 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then set 0 = []
< 1272919845 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easy
< 1272919858 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok now i'd like an actual algorithm :D
< 1272919880 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1272919892 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so given a non-empty list of integers >= 1
< 1272919911 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :divide the first one by 2 and take a bool for the remainder
< 1272919945 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm lessee
< 1272919954 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh integers >= 1
< 1272919959 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crush [] = 0
< 1272919959 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically
< 1272919962 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f [] = 0
< 1272919968 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f xs = g (map (+1) xs)
< 1272919986 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :divide?
< 1272919988 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in floor-divide?
< 1272920155 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crush (x:xs) = fromBinary $ (if b==1 then "1" else "") ++ intercalate "1" [toFibonacci (x+1) | x <- y:xs] where (b,y) = divMod x 2
< 1272920167 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_maybe_.
< 1272920219 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe using x for two things is a bit bad.
< 1272920270 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about the old idea of alternating the bits?
< 1272920277 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er *(y, b) = divMod x 2
< 1272920292 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: what?
< 1272920315 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: decode numbers as bits
< 1272920320 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then ababababab
< 1272920321 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then alternate.
< 1272920329 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rinse, repeat.
< 1272920351 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no guarantee of numbers being the same length
< 1272920358 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pad with 0.
< 1272920380 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, pad with 0 would work fine
< 1272920381 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that quotRem is faster than divMod
< 1272920382 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just another NxN->N bijection, though.
< 1272920383 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it'd turn into 0000x
< 1272920388 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If that's at all relevant
< 1272920396 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: merzbow's creations aren't in my style
< 1272920401 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... maybe that works
< 1272920406 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone remember the name of the language similar to Brainfuck from the 1960s?
< 1272920412 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :p''?
< 1272920415 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P''
< 1272920422 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: they're not in /any/ style
< 1272920426 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but it grows a lot, doesn't it
< 1272920452 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if log_2(x) = a and log_2(y) = b, then log_2(f(x,y)) = a+b
< 1272920456 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :roughly, at least
< 1272920459 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1272920467 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so two 500 binary digit numbers -> 1000
< 1272920467 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: merzbow is distinguishable
< 1272920468 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :digit
< 1272920470 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not bad actually
< 1272920483 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As fast as the triangular or factorising ones?
< 1272920484 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: um that's the minimum information theory allows, or so :D
< 1272920506 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1272920511 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so it's actually very good, isn't it
< 1272920527 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about combining this with my idea of (length l, tuple encoding)
< 1272920537 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can it be done efficiently with bignums?
< 1272920548 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: It's just divmod
< 1272920551 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to extract bits
< 1272920557 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-34-17-217.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272920560 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can alternate the bits of _all_ the numbers
< 1272920562 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Sure, although I've no idea what that encoding is
< 1272920565 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that efficient?
< 1272920575 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes.
< 1272920586 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: um i meant to use this alternating for that tuple encoding
< 1272920595 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, what tuple encoding :D
< 1272920604 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats alise -----###
< 1272920610 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_as_ that tuple encoding
< 1272920610 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh the fib thing?
< 1272920613 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1272920618 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why encode it with length
< 1272920619 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't ge it
< 1272920620 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*get
< 1272920627 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway so let's see
< 1272920631 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :biTo will be recursive, eek
< 1272920633 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not good is it
< 1272920636 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well
< 1272920639 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you know how many numbers you've mingled
< 1272920653 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interleaving the bits two by two is just as space-efficient as interleaving them all at once.
< 1272920665 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, hm, maybe
< 1272920675 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just another NxN->N bijection, so we can use our old encoding.
< 1272920702 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but our problem was to avoid blowing up some parts
< 1272920705 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what does theese mean: "man pleier ĂĄ fĂĄ som fortjent!" and "Disse statusoppdateringene som inneholder varmegrader kan du godt spare deg for."
< 1272920708 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1272920727 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :biTo :: (Integer, Integer) -> Integer
< 1272920728 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :biTo (0,0) = 0
< 1272920728 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :biTo (u,v) =
< 1272920728 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  let
< 1272920728 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    (u',a) = if u == 0 then (0,0) else u `divMod` 2
< 1272920728 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    (v',b) = if u == 0 then (0,0) else v `divMod` 2
< 1272920729 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: using this for NxN-> N will be _bad_ for long lists with the old method
< 1272920729 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  in
< 1272920731 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   (((u' * 2) + v') * 2) + biTo (u',v')
< 1272920734 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right?
< 1272920748 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because alternating is only efficient when the numbers are approx. same size
< 1272920751 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, then (0,1) = 0
< 1272920752 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, why
< 1272920765 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Hmm.
< 1272920772 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1272920774 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong way around
< 1272920775 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lulz
< 1272920778 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be a,u'
< 1272920779 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right?
< 1272920784 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;\
< 1272920784 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait
< 1272920787 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 = 10
< 1272920790 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 0,1 it should be read
< 1272920794 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er wait
< 1272920795 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 = 1
< 1272920797 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah, wrong way around
< 1272920797 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, we'll need to use a more balanced method for this.
< 1272920807 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no wait
< 1272920808 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1272920811 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thick
< 1272920823 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why i suggested alternating all the bits simultaneously
< 1272920830 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And lists?
< 1272920833 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ah
< 1272920833 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so
< 1272920839 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[1,1,1] = 111
< 1272920842 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1272920843 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah?
< 1272920847 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's stored as (3,111)
< 1272920849 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: please ;3
< 1272920854 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: then we crush recursively?
< 1272920864 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[1,[1,1,1],1] = (3,1(3,111)1)
< 1272920866 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do we do that
< 1272920880 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does 3 go into the number somehow?
< 1272920881 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we might
< 1272920883 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, interleaving at once is no better.
< 1272920894 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: it's information-theoretically optimal...
< 1272920902 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: crushing (3,111) gives something (2, x) and the 2 is redundant
< 1272920930 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, wait, you're right.
< 1272920930 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although that's not very efficient since 3 might be much smaller than the snd
< 1272920938 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: eh?
< 1272920959 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: if we crush (3,x) where x is large we get a _lot_ of zero padding on the 3
< 1272920973 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait,
< 1272920974 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   (((a * 2) + b) * 2) + biTo (u',v')
< 1272920976 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is totally broken
< 1272920977 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr
< 1272920983 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this recursion is hairy i think it is iterative :(
< 1272920994 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so, question
< 1272921001 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the interleaving good
< 1272921005 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is your fib thing good
< 1272921031 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan
< 1272921090 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: "one usually gets as one deserves!" "these status updates containing above zero (celsius) degrees you can just stop doing."
< 1272921109 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, thank you
< 1272921135 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1272921153 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga had some Foreign to be translated.
< 1272921154 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1272921171 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: the interleaving is much simpler but has that problem with size differences giving much padding
< 1272921229 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what is wrong with cons-cell interleaving?
< 1272921250 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It exacerbates the padding problem hugely.
< 1272921277 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right
< 1272921280 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The accumulator gets much larger than the car, so it's padded.
< 1272921282 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, does it?
< 1272921288 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: well if you do (a,(b,(c,(d,(e,0))))) then the bits of e will end up 32 bits apart, while the bits of a just end up 2 apart
< 1272921289 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: so do it the other way around!
< 1272921291 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait
< 1272921295 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't work like that lol
< 1272921303 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or thereabouts
< 1272921307 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: then we need some kind of synchronization
< 1272921308 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1272921312 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: does your fibonacci thing suffer this problem?
< 1272921331 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We could always re-use the unary one, too.
< 1272921343 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: and actually if you only do pairs then the triangle method is perfectly adequate, i should think
< 1272921350 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that the sequence {1, 2, 3} would be 1010010001?
< 1272921373 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: eh
< 1272921377 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about 00110
< 1272921388 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i see
< 1272921389 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 = 1
< 1272921390 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, fair point.
< 1272921395 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like
< 1272921396 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sa in
< 1272921397 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in
< 1272921403 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..00110..
< 1272921403 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :=
< 1272921412 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[...,3,0,2,...]
< 1272921414 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, wait, code {1, 2, 3} as 101001000
< 1272921415 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1272921417 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[...,2,0,1,...]
< 1272921426 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 11 = 0 element
< 1272921428 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then if it ends with one the final thing is 0.
< 1272921433 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the fibonacci method is quite lean, it only uses about log_2 phi * bitsize bits + 1 for each element regardless of size differences
< 1272921434 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11 at the start would be 0, too, because 1 is the starter
< 1272921443 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no bitsize
< 1272921468 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: bits are intrinsic to the fibonacci method
< 1272921485 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is a perfectly valid measure of number size
< 1272921493 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah well true
< 1272921496 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a stream of bits controls a machine
< 1272921498 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it actually log_2(n)
< 1272921503 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the machine is a type writer
< 1272921512 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, log_2(phi) * element size
< 1272921519 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_O
< 1272921521 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, i'm confused now
< 1272921544 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :phi is the golden ratio, the limit of ratios of consecutive fibonacci numbers
< 1272921547 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That makes sense.
< 1272921553 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if | is the cursor:  |  +|  +>| +>[|] +>[+|] this is the sort of typing you can do
< 1272921560 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so converting binary -> fibonacci base expands by about that much
< 1272921563 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :log_2() gives the no. of bytes.
< 1272921583 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of phi^n.
< 1272921587 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you are inside a bracket, there is an extra key allowed which steps out - but this has some redundancy
< 1272921587 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: bits
< 1272921599 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :log_256 otoh :D
< 1272921614 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there is a difference between +>[+|] and +>[+]| for example.. but they are equal programs
< 1272921620 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how to reconsile this?
< 1272921654 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: oh i mean element size in bits, of course
< 1272921663 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you always have to put down a symbol when you step out a bracket -- but that interferes with stepping out of multiple nested brackets
< 1272921664 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the bitsize of machine words :D
< 1272921673 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1272921678 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know what phi is
< 1272921679 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thx :P
< 1272921705 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :log_2 is no. of bits, yeah
< 1272921730 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: An interesting idea, but it would seem that it would be difficult to get uniqueness.
< 1272921757 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it possible to fix this idea?
< 1272921803 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really know. Also, would it be easy to compute both ways?
< 1272921828 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sheesh i still haven't gotten to the logs...
< 1272921838 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i'm just going to search for my name
< 1272922036 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: i conclude that although you mentioned my nick several times, all the problems were solved before i arrived
< 1272922061 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wut :P
< 1272922068 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So exactly how does the base-phi encoding work? Write the no.s in base phi, then use 11 to separate
< 1272922072 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1272922091 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: well the parts of the problems you were mentioning my nick about, anyway
< 1272922102 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use 1 to separate
< 1272922112 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second 1 is just the beginning of the next number
< 1272922129 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So how would {1, 2, 3} work?
< 1272922139 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, there is some trickiness at the beginning, see my haskell code far above ;)
< 1272922167 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first to fix the trickiness, divide 1 by 2 giving 0, remainder 1
< 1272922169 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is the 1 the beginning of the next?
< 1272922185 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: all numbers >= 1 begin with 1 in fibonacci base
< 1272922187 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, god. Please tell me it's an easy-to-find URL.
< 1272922222 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: boundaries are marked with 11, where the first 1 is inserted and the second is just the begining of the next number
< 1272922227 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: nope
< 1272922243 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:55  oerjan> crush (x:xs) = fromBinary $ (if b==1 then "1" else "") ++ intercalate "1" [toFibonacci (x+1) | x <- y:xs] where (b,y) = divMod x 2
< 1272922259 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also crush [] = 0
< 1272922274 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there may be off-by-one errors as usual ;)
< 1272922284 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does intercalate do?
< 1272922288 0 :alise_!~alise@212.183.140.4 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272922302 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :concatenates all the strings with "1" between
< 1272922303 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc
< 1272922372 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so does that cover every string?
< 1272922374 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the divMod stuff is necessary because the intercalation always gives a string beginning with an _odd_ number of 1's
< 1272922375 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :& does it compact well?
< 1272922400 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as i repeatedly said, it should expand by about log_2(phi)
< 1272922436 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell logBase 2 ((sqrt 5 + 1)/2)
< 1272922448 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1272922449 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.6942419136306174
< 1272922452 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do all base phi nats end with 1?
< 1272922460 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.9/20100315083431]
< 1272922465 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1272922471 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. 10 is 2
< 1272922484 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :100 is 3, 1000 is 5
< 1272922493 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, expand by the concatenation of all the bitstrings with no separator?
< 1272922496 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll only be log_2(phi) bigger?
< 1272922508 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, is base fib base phi?
< 1272922509 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in _bitsize_
< 1272922516 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: approximately
< 1272922536 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So 111 is 3+2+1?
< 1272922540 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you write your number as a sum of fibonacci numbers, never using consecutive ones
< 1272922549 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1272922554 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nopt, 11 is illegal in a fibonacci representation
< 1272922557 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*nope
< 1272922566 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but 101 is 3+1
< 1272922577 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1001 is 5+1=6?
< 1272922606 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: oh hm if phi is < 1 then it should be 1/phi, naturally
< 1272922615 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: yeah
< 1272922623 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so
< 1272922643 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So to extract we:
< 1272922651 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bigness (yourEncoding [a,b,c]) ~= bigness (concatMap bitStrings [a,b,c]) + 1/phi
< 1272922652 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :??
< 1272922654 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you serious?!
< 1272922670 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~+ 0.618
< 1272922672 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um no
< 1272922672 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely not
< 1272922724 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if x has n bits, then fibonacci x is approximately n/log_2(phi) long
< 1272922739 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just realized it needs division, not multiplication
< 1272922748 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because log_2(phi) < 1
< 1272922821 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1272922822 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fib(n) ~= phi^n, so log_2(fib(n)) ~= n*logBase 2 phi
< 1272922832 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :logBase 2?
< 1272922836 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you changed mid-thing :P
< 1272922843 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what about the list encoding
< 1272922844 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just changed to haskell
< 1272922846 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how much overhead?
< 1272922857 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you changed language across the sing!
< 1272922858 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sign!
< 1272922897 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fibonacci representation, plus the 1 bit in between...
< 1272922900 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*1 bits
< 1272922902 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1272922909 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it cover every nat then??
< 1272922916 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I think.
< 1272922917 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think so
< 1272922922 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, what's 111?
< 1272922927 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in binary)?
< 1272922928 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the divMod fix
< 1272922935 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: 7 :D
< 1272922947 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey oerjan
< 1272922949 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Everyone who applies for Norwegian citizenship after 1 September 2008 must be able to document that they have completed 300 hours of Norwegian language tuition or be able to document adequate knowledge of Norwegian or Sami.
< 1272922951 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does it decode?
< 1272922955 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if this didn't apply to in-EU migration too,
< 1272922957 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say fuck you
< 1272922960 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er
< 1272922961 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if this did
< 1272922968 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1272922980 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hope it doesn't
< 1272922980 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: citizenship is not the same as moving
< 1272922983 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1272922988 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool
< 1272922989 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :citizenship takes years of residence to get
< 1272922999 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if you try and move in from outside the EU?
< 1272923009 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you may have a hard time
< 1272923010 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that just the regular visa thing?
< 1272923011 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just curious
< 1272923015 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean
< 1272923017 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :move in as residence
< 1272923044 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to be an especially needed person to get a working permit if you're not from the EU/EEA
< 1272923046 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of which, pikhq: ping
< 1272923051 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(he's my personal immigration law expert)
< 1272923068 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pong!
< 1272923070 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oerjan: what tuple does 111 decode to in your system?
< 1272923073 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I only ask because I've been discussing, with a friend, utterly crazy ways to move
< 1272923091 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: Positive-imaginary?
< 1272923096 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First one was "him and me should get married so that I can move to the US"; issues: I'm 14; his state is heavily Republican so no gay marriage
< 1272923102 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: wut
< 1272923103 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: [1,0] i think
< 1272923110 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1272923123 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Alise is an EU citizen, and as such, is entitled to reside in Norway permanently.
< 1272923134 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was talking about said friend
< 1272923140 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: she was specifically asking about non-EU
< 1272923143 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who, of course, is entirely joking
< 1272923145 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm.
< 1272923155 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'm surprised you're actually keeping up the pronoun thing
< 1272923168 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: when i remember
< 1272923171 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway pikhq
< 1272923177 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see /msg in a sec
< 1272923205 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1272923288 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whee, i'm forgetting to eat
< 1272923296 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do that too
< 1272923299 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other things are just so much more interesting
< 1272923982 0 :hiato!~fdulu@41-132-16-47.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272924122 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272925576 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1272925922 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have an idea
< 1272925930 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay
< 1272925933 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's create [[Remarkable language list]]
< 1272925942 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which lists all the actually good languages on the wiki
< 1272925943 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but
< 1272925945 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we'll put at the start
< 1272925950 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :languages known in the community for a while
< 1272925956 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that have shown good esoteric theoretical/practical qualities
< 1272925957 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc
< 1272925964 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and telling people not to put new languages on the list
< 1272925968 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tada, a language list that is actually usable!
< 1272925973 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nobody is offended
< 1272925976 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps [[Languages of note]]
< 1272926013 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell data Remarkable = Remarkable String String deriving Show; language = "Haskell"; list = "compendium"; main = print [[Remarkable language list]]
< 1272926016 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Remarkable "Haskell" "compendium"]]
< 1272926084 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1272926539 0 :gm|lap!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272926727 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: what are your esolangs?
< 1272926736 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1272926740 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see
< 1272926795 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: just finding them :P
< 1272926878 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: here are all the ones I can find right now, mostly old:
< 1272926880 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Qq
< 1272926881 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Jumping_to_-1_is_exciting
< 1272926883 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Yael
< 1272926890 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/UniCode (never specified)
< 1272926892 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/JumpFuck
< 1272926899 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/BF_machine (not really a language; part of a project)
< 1272926951 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JumpFuck was a project too, for a something->BF compiler iirc
< 1272926959 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a rather ugly extension too
< 1272926967 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1272927033 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Qq was quite nice, took a while to be disproved TC
< 1272927045 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jumping to -1 is exciting is confusing.
< 1272927048 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1272927087 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the things after the instructions are the tape/stack/whatever
< 1272927097 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and # is incompletely specified
< 1272927098 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just examples
< 1272927113 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's "cherry-pick from the stack" basically, iirc
< 1272927117 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;]
< 1272927121 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and move it elsewhere
< 1272927125 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Qq looks nice
< 1272927151 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah; it's sub-TC due to the instructions not allowing arbitrary function calls or something
< 1272927156 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget
< 1272927167 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yael is a nice little computotron, with very limited memory.
< 1272927226 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could even implement yael in FPGA
< 1272927288 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0001 AAA BBB
< 1272927289 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    Moves the data in register B to register A.
< 1272927289 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1000 AAA BBB
< 1272927289 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    Store - in the memory whose address is in register B - the data in register A.
< 1272927291 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How inconsistent! Oh well.
< 1272927320 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: You can implement it in practically anything. It only has 264 bytes of memory.
< 1272927362 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :relays!
< 1272927374 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That actually wouldn't be too hard.
< 1272927384 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could even do the memory in relays.
< 1272927387 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why i am saying that
< 1272927408 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would also make some absolutely *wonderful* noises.
< 1272927422 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relay computers are awesome.
< 1272927435 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MM4IUxXiArY
< 1272927440 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is awesome
< 1272927504 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah.
< 1272927519 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit, I loaded /prog/ again. Now I won't be able to stop myself calling Python FIOC.
< 1272927571 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YEAH BUT WHO DOESNT INDENT THER CODE?
< 1272927703 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: null
< 1272928012 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to tell alise something
< 1272928154 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell alise unignore me I have news to tell you
< 1272928166 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell "alise unignore me I have news to tell you"
< 1272928168 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"alise unignore me I have news to tell you"
< 1272928288 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION chuckles
< 1272928429 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wishes for a way to request someone's ignore list
< 1272928455 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq only assholes and stalkers do this but you can /ping people to see if they have you on /ignore
< 1272928457 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cannot hear you LALALALA
< 1272928479 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why the hell would you ping me
< 1272928493 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I clearly don't have you on ignore
< 1272928496 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lawlz
< 1272928513 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1272928755 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: I don't know how to unignore you o_O
< 1272928764 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: done; what is it?
< 1272928773 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise you are listening now?
< 1272928786 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272928792 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..
< 1272928798 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are pretending to have unignored me
< 1272928809 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1272928811 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not :P
< 1272928815 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ilua
< 1272928819 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not /that/ stupid
< 1272928838 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/unignore
< 1272928867 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but you need the full mask
< 1272928887 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does [] ever come up in real brainfuck programs?
< 1272928905 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean it always finite loops.. or it's a noop - so we can ignore it yes?
< 1272928913 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well no.
< 1272928917 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean infinite loops?
< 1272928918 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because we're trying to translate every bf program :)
< 1272928921 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trivial to translate some subset
< 1272928930 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the edge-cases are what makes it hard -- but go on anyway
< 1272928954 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hard part isn't "a bijection from BF prog <-> nat", anyway, it's "a feasibly computable bijection from BF prog <-> nat" :-P
< 1272928978 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you need []'s in the programs then my idea is worth nothing
< 1272929053 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am interested anyway
< 1272929057 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ideas are always worth something... sometimes it's negative though
< 1272929069 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's okay because you can find out some positive-worth idea to balance it out
< 1272929078 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so somehow -a + a > 0???
< 1272929080 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets say that +- -+ <> >< [] never occur in any program
< 1272929087 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: what about <<>>
< 1272929102 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that contains <>
< 1272929107 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah true
< 1272929114 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just realized this idea doesn't work anyway
< 1272929155 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will only work for programs of even length
< 1272929200 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1272929202 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go ahead anyway
< 1272929204 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I noticed was that there's 6*6 two-symbol codes, 5 of them aren't used, 6*6-5 is 31
< 1272929205 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds so bad it's interesting
< 1272929208 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you add loops 32
< 1272929252 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the condition is a bit harsher than just even length programs actually, anyway this idea is broken so never mind
< 1272929274 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought I had solved it
< 1272929403 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh, I am sick of hot chocolate. I cannot be arsed to deal with the stupid skin that forms.
< 1272929410 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should just drink tea or something.
< 1272929427 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the key thing is that 32 is a power of two
< 1272929475 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't say :P
< 1272929588 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: underflow
< 1272929655 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :][ too, since when exiting a loop, the current memory cell will be zero, and the next loop won't start.
< 1272929667 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it still must be encoded.
< 1272929697 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :filtercomments | bf encode | bf decode = filtercomments
< 1272929709 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er
< 1272929711 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bf encode | bf decode = filtercomments
< 1272929717 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you don't encode it, then you are encoding a subset of the valid Brainfuck programs.
< 1272929762 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a-z + 0-9 = 36 symbols
< 1272929922 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a loop after ] is a comment :)
< 1272929930 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :walk ->
< 1272929993 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: at this time?
< 1272929999 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in NORWAY?
< 1272930003 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're hard as fuck.
< 1272930187 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1272930195 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1272930228 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's past midnight in norway. in trondheim, it is 0 degrees right now
< 1272930233 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and oerjan is going for a walk.
< 1272930251 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1272930273 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan's in trondheim?
< 1272930380 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he lives in trondheim.
< 1272930387 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bit more than "in" :P
< 1272930417 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1272930439 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: why heh? :P
< 1272930457 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i actually turned around when i discovered the stairs were so slippery with sleet it was dangerous to walk on them :/
< 1272930463 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1272930471 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hardcore motherfucker
< 1272930479 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOTHING CAN STOP ME -- EXCEPT SLEET, AND GUNS
< 1272930482 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I love Norway's weather now. :P
< 1272930484 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*NOTHING CAN STOP ME -- EXCEPT SLEET, AND WEAPONRY
< 1272930491 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it's fucking amazing!
< 1272930498 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't even freezing ALL the time
< 1272930509 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: Also, 0 is not *that* cold.
< 1272930511 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i figured if i took a walk, came back and forgot about the sleet i'd probably fall and break my neck
< 1272930514 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but still.
< 1272930525 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 degrees, can't see very well, ...
< 1272930528 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something
< 1272930531 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now of course oerjan you realise that you are going to have to lodge me.
< 1272930541 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> eek!
< 1272930557 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek.
< 1272930590 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, how come half of Trondheim's streets are water, I'm going to ignore the real explanation and substitute "you are all Jesus", or "you all have high-tech ice-making shoes"
< 1272930610 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait since when
< 1272930627 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we _do_ have a river through the city center, but...
< 1272930639 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: You... Might be confusing Trondheim with Venice.
< 1272930643 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1272930647 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could be.
< 1272930656 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite some confusion.
< 1272930669 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was actually going to link to one of these pictures saying "the Venice of Norway":
< 1272930673 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.trondheim.com/multimedia.ap?id=1114985653&width=138
< 1272930674 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.trondheim.com/multimedia.ap?id=9652293
< 1272930677 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it _shouldn't_ be this cold in the beginning of may.
< 1272930682 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and
< 1272930696 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d3/TrondheimNidelva-improved.jpg
< 1272930698 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and
< 1272930699 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I have seen snowstorms in June.
< 1272930702 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/13/Nidelva-Trondheim-foliage.JPG
< 1272930708 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I REST MY CASE
< 1272930758 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Colorado has fucking schizophrenic weather.
< 1272930777 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how sad that you don't have rivers in england.
< 1272930784 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i know right :P
< 1272930797 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was just a disproportionately large portion of pictures of buildings with water right behind them, so...
< 1272930807 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Here. You. Let's move to Norway on the basis that broke+broke = not broke.
< 1272930822 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It doesn't matter whether you're broke beforehand; move to Norway, become enbroken.)
< 1272930833 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: Hahahah.
< 1272930843 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have taken walks at -5 as well, this winter.  -10 starts to get a bit grating.
< 1272930845 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do they speak... Japanese there?
< 1272930847 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1272930854 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: They don't speak Japanese in Colorado.
< 1272930864 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I've walked to school in that.
< 1272930867 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and Japan itself has quite a few issues. Namely, being fucked up.
< 1272930870 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus, Norway.
< 1272930879 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say Finland, but military at 18 makes alise sad.
< 1272930892 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i mean taking walks just to stretch my legs.
< 1272930902 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ă§ă‚‚ć—Ąćś¬čŞžă‚’č©±ă›ă‚‹ăśă€ś
< 1272930911 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've certainly walked to school in -15..-20 when i was younger
< 1272930931 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: How's about we just move to the moon?
< 1272930938 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not _that_ common here though.  temperature has a tendency to cling around 0.
< 1272930961 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: we did have the japanese emperor visiting a few years ago.
< 1272930976 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently he wrote a poem about us afterwards.
< 1272930980 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it has huge ping to earth iirc
< 1272930983 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was that mars
< 1272930988 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was a really depressing conversation
< 1272931001 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when i found out that colonising even near planets in the solar system meant really slow internet, only e-mail and the like
< 1272931018 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan:
< 1272931022 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cold cold cold cold,
< 1272931024 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cold cold fucking cold ow,
< 1272931026 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did i visit
< 1272931032 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He does not like you.
< 1272931039 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah :D
< 1272931045 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: Mars has absurd ping to Earth.
< 1272931059 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: The Moon is not much worse than my current link.
< 1272931063 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1272931071 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mars is more likely to sustain life though :P
< 1272931080 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Well, he's got to do something with his time.
< 1272931092 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not like he has *any power or responsibility*.
< 1272931116 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's not even a nominal head of state.
< 1272931156 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's only got his position because the Diet wouldn't think to remove it.
< 1272931175 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.kunaicho.go.jp/e-culture/utakai-h18.html
< 1272931188 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION didn't expect to actually find it :)
< 1272931328 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that cannot be the original text surely
< 1272931367 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love the name Diet
< 1272931369 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the national diet of japan. everyone must eat according to it!
< 1272931376 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: why not?
< 1272931382 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from being translated, obviously
< 1272931391 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :His Majesty the Emperor
< 1272931391 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    At Trondheim
< 1272931391 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    Cruising along the canal,
< 1272931391 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    From the windows
< 1272931391 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    Of houses are people
< 1272931391 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't a clue why it's "The Diet".
< 1272931392 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    Seen smiling and waving hands.
< 1272931395 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is a really shitty poem
< 1272931425 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also referring to himself in his poem what
< 1272931426 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shall look to see if the Japanese can be found
< 1272931428 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i vaguely recall it's a borrowed word
< 1272931440 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are STUPID mr. emperor
< 1272931445 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: why do you not think it is the original text?
< 1272931450 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: well translation's what i meant
< 1272931457 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The word diet derives from Latin and was a common name for an assembly in medieval Germany. The Meiji constitution was largely based on the form of constitutional monarchy found in nineteenth century Prussia and the new Diet was modeled partly on the German Reichstag and partly on the British Westminster system. Unlike Japan's modern constitution, the Meiji constitution granted a real political role to the Emperor, although in practice the Emperor's powers
< 1272931458 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : were largely directed by a group of oligarchs called the genrĹŤ.[16]
< 1272931460 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: right
< 1272931492 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: i don't think he's referring to himself, sheesh
< 1272931498 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just the section title
< 1272931512 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that'd do it.
< 1272931520 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh :P
< 1272931665 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Found the actual original.
< 1272931670 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ăă­ăłăŹă‚¤ă ă®é‹ć˛łă‚’čˇŚă‘ă°ĺ®¶ă€…ă®çŞ“ă‚ă‚Šäşşă‚‰ç¬‘ăżă¦ć‰‹ă‚’ćŚŻă‚‹"
< 1272931737 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: No, he is not referring to himself.
< 1272931751 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The English translation is *adding* a lot.
< 1272931765 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Translate it for us then plz?
< 1272931835 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Trondheim (of) canal (obj) going houses (of) windows, people-group laughing, hand wave"
< 1272931838 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a gloss for you.
< 1272931859 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... my fonts are missing half those characters.
< 1272931865 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any recommendations?
< 1272931903 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or. "Going through Trondheim, at their windows, people are laughing, waving."
< 1272931914 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm.
< 1272931923 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/laughing/smiling/ in that actual translation.
< 1272931956 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the _theme_ of that year's poetry was "smile"
< 1272931992 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ĺąłć18ĺą´ć­ŚäĽšĺ§‹ăŠéˇŚă€Śç¬‘ăżă€Ť
< 1272932005 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's more "Laughter" than "smile".
< 1272932032 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though, it's more of a "happy-gleeful" sort of laughter than mocking sort of thing.
< 1272932040 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1272932040 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Translation is a bitch.
< 1272932107 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.kunaicho.go.jp/culture/utakai/utakai-h18.html This page also has a *lot* more poems than the English.
< 1272932203 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: what OS?
< 1272932217 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272932231 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: he is a bad poet.
< 1272932239 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: It's not bad in Japanese.
< 1272932251 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just loses a lot in the translation.
< 1272932255 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's not *great*. :P
< 1272932264 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: aren't fonts are OS-independent... ?
< 1272932272 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Just answer the question :P
< 1272932281 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok... Windows
< 1272932284 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems to be... Everyone in the royal family, every prefecture head, and... A Brazilian diplomat?
< 1272932285 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Yes they are, mostly, but--)
< 1272932293 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Put in your Windows install CD, go to keyboard settings, go to I think the third tab.
< 1272932299 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Click install Japanese/Chinese fonts.
< 1272932307 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is the reason I asked.
< 1272932312 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh.
< 1272932313 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They won't be antialiased but who cares. They'll work.
< 1272932326 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: If you don't want to do that, dunno.
< 1272932330 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google "windows asian fonts".
< 1272932335 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of which, pikhq: what are some good antialiased Asian fonts for Linux?
< 1272932342 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I have to be up at 9am sigh.
< 1272932357 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: I'm using Takao.
< 1272932364 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crap for Chinese though.
< 1272932391 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So there aren't any good ones? :(
< 1272932394 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you need a seperate font for Chinese and Japanese, as the ways of writing them have changed a bit.)
< 1272932410 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, will shit automatically use it when the current font fails hard? I assume so.
< 1272932419 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and how can it detect /that/?
< 1272932437 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In HTML, you can specify the used language.
< 1272932444 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Outside of HTML, "you're fucked".
< 1272932454 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay.
< 1272932470 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Gothic"?
< 1272932478 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume that doesn't mean that.
< 1272932496 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Gothic" is an old term for "serif".
< 1272932500 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm.
< 1272932504 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sans-serif.
< 1272932506 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right.
< 1272932516 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not up-to-date with the olde typographical termies.
< 1272932534 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still used in Japanese to describe sans-serif fonts.
< 1272932555 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mincho should be your serif font.
< 1272932600 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, _this_ is gothic http://www.wulfila.be/gothic/browse/text/?book=1
< 1272932604 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Mincho", meaning "the style used in the Ming dynasty".
< 1272932663 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(when the printing press became common in China)
< 1272932680 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. Japan.
< 1272932714 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The type style actually was made in the Song dynasty, and so it's called a Song typeface in Chinese.
< 1272932853 0 :cheater2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1272932868 0 :cheater2!~cheater@ip-80-226-45-169.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272932921 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would really like to figure out what font *is* being used for Chinese here, because it looks awful.
< 1272933106 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no takao in ubuntu :(
< 1272933169 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kochi mincho is also nice looking.
< 1272933195 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only reason I use Takao is because it's more readable at 9pt.
< 1272933209 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's in, yay.
< 1272933215 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gothic and Mincho, which is superior?
< 1272933233 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sans-serif and serif, which is superior?
< 1272933272 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :serious people use serif
< 1272933298 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.nihongoresources.com/language/writing/typefaces.html Here. You look and see.
< 1272933377 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea how you put serifs on Japanese.
< 1272933406 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text book print style, block style, flowing/semi-cursive, and cursive/grass are all nice... >__>
< 1272933411 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/>__>/>_>/
< 1272933418 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't really like Ming or Gothic. Ming is better though.
< 1272933423 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So Gothic is sans-serif, not serif.
< 1272933436 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1272933449 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ttf-kochi-mincho is already the newest version.
< 1272933451 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it bitmap, then?
< 1272933457 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1272933460 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, you said serif :P
< 1272933464 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then how do I tell fontconfig to use it?
< 1272933472 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I then corrected myself.
< 1272933479 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm.
< 1272933482 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, you did.
< 1272933484 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah.
< 1272933485 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Ah, so you did.
< 1272933491 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno how to get fontconfig to use it.
< 1272933521 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The semicursive there looks pretty much like my Japanese handwriting, except written by a neater person. :P
< 1272933535 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... And with a brush...
< 1272933577 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: so I see you've named some language called UniCode?
< 1272933584 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes; a non-existent one
< 1272933612 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grass script is really hard to read.
< 1272933617 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_ is here!
< 1272933626 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And doesn't have an iProduct tag in eir name!
< 1272933642 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, until Tuesday.
< 1272933644 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bank holiday Monday.
< 1272933740 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but see, I think all you need for Unicode to be turing-complete is a "duplicate next few codepoints" character
< 1272933786 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or some other form of decision
< 1272933797 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just using Unicode for the character set.
< 1272933799 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, that is false.
< 1272933830 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? Does Unicode already have ifs or something?
< 1272933866 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope
< 1272933876 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{papna} You can write good programs in all sorts of awful languages.
< 1272934053 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :N1 will get 2.2 first?
< 1272934274 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong channel
< 1272934296 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272934490 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1272934683 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1272934700 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes that conventional proof by contradiction /does/ work in intuitionistic logic
< 1272934750 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :naturally, since not a is defined essentially as "a implies a contradiction"
< 1272934752 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh no it doesn't
< 1272934754 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically, the (P -> ~P) -> ~P kind; just not the (~P -> P) -> P kind
< 1272934762 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Theorem reductio_ad_absurdum (P : Prop) : (P -> ~P) -> ~P.
< 1272934763 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  intros; intro.
< 1272934763 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  set (H1 := H H0).
< 1272934763 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  contradiction.
< 1272934763 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Qed.
< 1272934763 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it does.
< 1272934779 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ummmmm that's reductio_ad_absurdum
< 1272934795 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Close enough.
< 1272934798 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :proof by contradiction is ~~P -> P
< 1272934806 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We take a to be true; we show that it cannot be so, thus contradiction. Therefore not a.
< 1272934807 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q.E.D.
< 1272934808 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought those are synonyms
< 1272934815 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, classicaly they are
< 1272934819 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a subset of proof by contradiction.
< 1272934820 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm...
< 1272934825 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the /majority/ of proofs by contradiction.
< 1272934831 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I said /conventional/ proof by contradiction.
< 1272935177 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :proof by majority contradiction.
< 1272935185 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Put yourself in this situation: You are a UK hacker writing a program, using, say, curses, where all the constants are written in US English (MAX_COLORS, etc.). Now you want to write a function that returns a random colour. Now consider this paradox: Do you call it randomColour, making the integrity of names suffer? or do you call it randomColor, making it look ugly in your own eyes? Now with ncurses it's not a problem, there are only few variables that
< 1272935185 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can easily #define and put into void.h. But with OpenGL, there's a crapload of that and I don't know what to do.]]
< 1272935188 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err... Isn't the answer obvious?
< 1272935190 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, to everyone?
< 1272935204 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :troll thread
< 1272935216 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno
< 1272935224 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/prog/ usually isn't that subtle
< 1272935226 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a good reply "Oh fuck off you fucking polaczky przeciÄ™tniaczky "
< 1272935227 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :port-has-set-port-position!?   -- R6RS
< 1272935229 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impressive
< 1272935241 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should have used an interrobang
< 1272935245 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :couleursRandoms
< 1272935332 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol my browser is totally frozen; too many tabs
< 1272935368 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tabs on ice
< 1272935378 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the "obvious" answer? Consistancy?
< 1272935383 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :consistency, yes.
< 1272935385 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also there is an unclosed <i> on /prog/
< 1272935389 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shiichan really sucks
< 1272935506 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/05/apples-compiler-policy-may-land-it-in-hot-water-with-ftc.ars
< 1272935569 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In other news, the FTC still enforces antitrust laws. Who knew?
< 1272935597 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apple aren't in a monopoly position
< 1272935610 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q.E.D.
< 1272935671 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, yeah.
< 1272935706 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf:
< 1272935709 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=User:Phantom_Hoover&curid=3152&diff=17461&oldid=16700
< 1272935790 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION emails
< 1272935801 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You must be logged in and have a valid e-mail address in your preferences to send e-mail to other users.
< 1272935802 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr...
< 1272935807 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can someone else ask if he is ok?
< 1272935843 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trying to login
< 1272935865 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time for a third account, I guess
< 1272935883 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION verifies his emal
< 1272935884 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*email
< 1272935941 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, if you're asking, does that mean I shouldn't ask?
< 1272935946 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or should I ask anyway?
< 1272935953 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoever asks first wins a cookie.
< 1272935959 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and tells the other by pinging them so they don't bother
< 1272936011 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I saw your change to your userpage, and just wanted to be sure, is everything ok?"
< 1272936014 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that good?
< 1272936030 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure
< 1272936042 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hopes it doesn't get filed as spam
< 1272936158 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Subject was "Hey. Everything ok?"
< 1272936173 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, Gmail, the copy I had sent to me was not forged
< 1272936266 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1272936297 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION also hopes that the Esolang wiki didn't make it look like the email was sent if it wasn't due to confirmation issues
< 1272936302 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time for Sgeo3 just to be sure
< 1272936347 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't
< 1272936348 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it tells you if not
< 1272936370 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1272936710 0 :Gregor-L!~Gregor@248.sub-75-206-147.myvzw.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272936869 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Gregor
< 1272936876 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Gregor-L
< 1272936901 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm on stolen 3G 8-D
< 1272936942 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Stolen? How?
< 1272936984 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IREX has free unlimited 3G (for buying eBooks)
< 1272937005 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1272937007 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor has mad hax0r skills (and a sudden immediate need for Internet, as my apartment is flooded and I'm without my usual access lawlz)
< 1272937017 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flooed? sux2bu lol
< 1272937084 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, for all the suxiness, 1) it's clean water, not sewage or something, 2) they're putting me up in a real nice hotel (modulo lack of wifi) while they fuck with my apartment and 3) it gave me a great excuse to really clean my apartment before I leave it for the summer :P
< 1272937186 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell main = print ([1..] == [2..])
< 1272937188 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :False
< 1272937193 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell main = print ([1..] == [1..])
< 1272937240 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... what happens to infinite loops?
< 1272937241 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, we all love the magic of laziness :P
< 1272937251 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It gets killed after (IIRC) 30 seconds.
< 1272937272 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314, patch Haskell so that will always terminate.
< 1272937282 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: that's the plan
< 1272937316 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or construct a better language where it terminates
< 1272937333 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After that, will you donate some of the $Infinite prize to us?
< 1272937339 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For having done the impossible?
< 1272937364 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1272937365 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not impossible if you special-case it, just useless.
< 1272937388 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you have definitional equality
< 1272937395 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: That won't terminate in any language.
< 1272937400 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JMOD sucks
< 1272937409 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say "f a == f a by definition"
< 1272937414 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, in non-lazy languages you won't finish constructing the first list.
< 1272937419 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1272937429 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that [1..] is not the *same* list as [1..].
< 1272937440 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it doesn't
< 1272937447 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But [1..] was defined in an identical manner to [1..[
< 1272937450 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[1..]
< 1272937495 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"let x = [1..] in x == x" won't terminate either.
< 1272937510 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because "==" does not mean what you think it means.
< 1272937537 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Mathnerd314 wants to change the definition of ==
< 1272937549 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that it uses definition, and not equivance
< 1272937560 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a way that it can only work in certain cases.
< 1272937581 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, you just have overloaded ==
< 1272937614 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Won't work for "[1..] == (map (+1) . map (-1) $ [1..])"
< 1272937637 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, but those are defined differently
< 1272937646 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that's the point, I think
< 1272937652 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fewer cases where == doesn't return
< 1272937653 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: But they are obviously equal.
< 1272937657 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you'd need (+1) . (-1) . x == x
< 1272937678 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Define "obvious"
< 1272937707 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't typecheck
< 1272937742 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure it does, it just lacks an instance >:)
< 1272937772 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant Mathnerd314's thing
< 1272937775 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not the == thing
< 1272937783 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, forget the "not the == thing"
< 1272937808 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell :t \x -> (+1) . (-1) . x == x
< 1272937809 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\x -> (+1) . (-1) . x == x :: (Eq (a -> b), Num (b -> b), Num b) =>
< 1272937814 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, forget everything I said during and since "THat doesn't typecheck"
< 1272937817 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1272937822 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:49 =EgoBot> (a -> b) -> Bool
< 1272937875 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh (-1) isn't a section
< 1272937900 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you cannot use map (-1) as you'd think
< 1272938000 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell :t (+-1)
< 1272938013 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a syntax error
< 1272938020 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell :t (+(-1))
< 1272938022 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(+(-1)) :: (Num a) => a -> a
< 1272938030 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell :t (`sub` 1)
< 1272938049 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell :t flip (-) 1
< 1272938051 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :flip (-) 1 :: (Num a) => a -> a
< 1272938054 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell :t (subtract 1)
< 1272938056 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(subtract 1) :: (Num t) => t -> t
< 1272938065 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell flip (-) 1 2
< 1272938066 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1
< 1272938114 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell (subtract 1) 2
< 1272938118 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1
< 1272938185 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell :t \x -> (+1) . (+(-1)) $ x == x
< 1272938251 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1272938279 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@type \x -> ((+1) . (+(-1)) $ x) == x
< 1272938288 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell :t \x -> ((+1) . (+(-1)) $ x) == x
< 1272938290 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\x -> ((+1) . (+(-1)) $ x) == x :: (Num a) => a -> Bool
< 1272938301 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot gives much better error messages
< 1272938310 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1272938335 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know why that wouldn't type
< 1272938340 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell :t \x -> (+1) . (+(-1)) $ x == x
< 1272938355 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because ($) has higher precedence than (==)
< 1272938359 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*lower
< 1272938374 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know, but i _still_ don't know why it wouldn't type >:)
< 1272938382 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's like @type \x -> (+1) . (+(-1)) $ (x == x)
< 1272938392 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i _know_
< 1272938396 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Num has no Bool instance
< 1272938410 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, i got no error message in private either
< 1272938427 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is of no consequence for :t, it should just ask for Num Bool
< 1272938441 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell :t False + 1
< 1272938462 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently it refuses to do that...
< 1272938499 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it needs to know what to do fromInteger 1 with
< 1272938509 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and +
< 1272938554 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well
< 1272938766 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyways, there you go
< 1272939015 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(map (+1) . map (+(-1)) $ [1..]) == [1..] reduces to \x â†’ (+1) . (+(-1)) $ x == x, which then gets reduced by some theorem-proving system to true
< 1272939162 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe I inverted that
< 1272939186 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if he should play with OpenLaszlo
< 1272939200 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this language comes closest: http://sage.soe.ucsc.edu/
< 1272939292 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wouldn't be _very_ surprised if ghc reduces (map (+1) . map (+(-1)) $ [1..]) to [1..] internally
< 1272939316 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does the map f . map g = map (f . g) reduction, surely
< 1272939404 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1272941207 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: GHC performs stream fusion.
< 1272941228 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It transforms *most* composed list functions into a single iteration over the list.
< 1272941348 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what i meant
< 1272941489 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1272941519 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-34-17-217.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272941945 0 :calamari!~calamari@ip70-162-184-104.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272942610 0 :myndzi\!myndzi@tengototen.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272942621 0 :cal153!~cal@c-24-4-207-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272942802 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1272943162 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night
< 1272944313 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272944558 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Every hobby requires an outlay of funds."
< 1272944559 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LIES
< 1272944627 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yes, you had to buy lotion & tissues
< 1272944738 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use neither lotion nor tissues.  I use nothing at all, in fact.
< 1272944759 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: tmi, it was a joke
< 1272944771 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh.
< 1272944806 0 :cap11235!~charlieap@wsip-98-173-208-188.sb.sd.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272944853 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh I don't know what is wrong with OSS, but this skipping audio is annoying
< 1272944881 0 :cap11235!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are you using OSS instead of ALSA? Also, what kind of sound card/chip do you have?
< 1272944895 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because alsa doesn't seem to be working
< 1272944899 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, hardware description languages are the worst ever.  There's no dynamic allocation of memory whatsoever; the amount of memory a program uses is constant.  There's no flow control, either; everything runs all the time.
< 1272944906 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cap11235: OSSv4 is a usable replacement of ALSA.
< 1272944909 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it even always reads from and writes to the same place.
< 1272944911 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: Get you OSSv4.
< 1272944959 0 :cap11235!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Does it have an ALSA to OSS layer?
< 1272944969 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so, yes.
< 1272944973 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The benefit of an HDL, of course, is that it runs really fast.
< 1272944973 0 :cap11235!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesome.
< 1272944980 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, *everything* has an OSS backend anyways.
< 1272944993 0 :cap11235!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Include Flash?
< 1272944996 0 :cap11235!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*including
< 1272944999 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cap11235: Aureal Semiconductor Vortex 2 (rev fe)
< 1272945005 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flash *still doesn't support ALSA*.
< 1272945020 0 :cap11235!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I am even more despondant about Adobe...
< 1272945032 0 :cap11235!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it just uses OSS?
< 1272945067 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah.
< 1272945070 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool, my chipset is on the supported list
< 1272945089 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may need to try OSSv4 some time.
< 1272945108 0 :cap11235!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The more you know.... %%%%%%%%%%?
< 1272945116 0 :cap11235!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, no Unicode?
< 1272945145 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, there's Unicode. Your IRC client may not be able to use it, though.
< 1272945194 0 :cap11235!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using mIRC...
< 1272945221 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ă„ă„ăă€ă¦ă‹ă‚łăĽă‰ăŚă‚ă‚‹ă€‚ă§ă‚‚ă€ă‚ăŞăźă®IRCă‚Żă©ă‚¤ă‚˘ăłăăŻä˝żăăŞă•ăťă†ă€‚
< 1272945227 0 :cap11235!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup, that works.
< 1272945241 0 :cap11235!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it just didn't like my character. Though it worked in Firefox...
< 1272945428 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb installing ossv4
< 1272945431 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1272945614 0 :cap11235!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, what would you say the best known esolang after BF is?
< 1272945623 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INTERCAL.
< 1272945651 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1272945668 0 :cap11235!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I want to do is write a forth enviornment for some esolang, but it needs to be able to run arbitrary code at runtime.
< 1272945698 0 :cap11235!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could make a BF interpreter in vanilla BF, then add some self modifying capability, but the overhead would be pretty bad.
< 1272945823 0 :cap11235!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm, I think I could just sort of translate BF commands to apply to a stack instead of the tape...
< 1272945963 0 :calamari!~calamari@ip70-162-184-104.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272945980 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently that list is wrong.. hardware not recognized
< 1272945994 0 :cap11235!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you just tried googling your chipset?
< 1272946112 0 :cap11235!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What happens when you run 'modprobe snd_au8830' as root?
< 1272946159 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FATAL: Module snd_au8830 not found.
< 1272946172 0 :cap11235!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try 'modprobe snd-au8830'
< 1272946176 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's strange, because I'm sure that a module siilar to that used to be there
< 1272946190 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope
< 1272946196 0 :cap11235!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm... What distro?
< 1272946206 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ubuntu karmic
< 1272946241 0 :cap11235!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about lsmod?
< 1272946244 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal
< 1272946267 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oss_usb               125332  0
< 1272946268 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :osscore               603524  1 oss_usb
< 1272946279 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure why it thinks I have a usb soundcard
< 1272946284 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poll: should I learn vi or emacs this summer?
< 1272946291 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vi
< 1272946292 0 :cap11235!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both.
< 1272946328 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a bonus some of your vi knowledge will help in less :)
< 1272946355 0 :cap11235!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use emacs for programming, and vim for everything else.
< 1272946389 0 :cap11235!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vi is pretty simple to learn, I think.
< 1272946405 0 :cap11235!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emacs is hellish, but nothing is better than Inferior Haskell Mode...
< 1272946423 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[DUO] /lib/modules/2.6.28-18-generic>where *8830*
< 1272946423 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./kernel/sound/pci/au88x0/snd-au8830.ko
< 1272946436 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I just need to downgrade my kernel to get my audio working again
< 1272946463 0 :cap11235!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could go to the kernel source directory and run 'make modules_install'
< 1272946480 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't compile this kernel
< 1272946491 0 :cap11235!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1272946505 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: reboot
< 1272946510 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should hehe
< 1272946531 0 :cap11235!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know you can use modprobe with a path, but it might require some extra flags.
< 1272946540 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's for the wrong kernel tho
< 1272946554 0 :cap11235!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could I see your 'uname -a'?
< 1272946579 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux DUO 2.6.31-20-generic #58-Ubuntu SMP Fri Mar 12 04:38:19 UTC 2010 x86_64 GNU/Linux
< 1272946609 0 :cap11235!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, try modprobe'ing it anyway. In the worst case, you just reboot.
< 1272946671 0 :cap11235!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If modprobe doesn't throw any errors, it should be fine, I think.
< 1272946699 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cap11235: That's insmod.
< 1272946701 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1272946710 0 :cap11235!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right.
< 1272946739 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :insmod: error inserting '/lib/modules/2.6.28-18-generic/kernel/sound/pci/au88x0/snd-au8830.ko': -1 Invalid module format
< 1272946745 0 :cap11235!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok...
< 1272946746 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't look like it wants me to do that
< 1272946750 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1272946751 0 :cap11235!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have apt-file installed?
< 1272946761 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... Do believe you have a 2.4 insmod.
< 1272946764 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is a solid WTF.
< 1272946768 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no but I can
< 1272946782 0 :cap11235!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :His uname said it was 2.6.31
< 1272946796 0 :cap11235!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apt-get apt-file, then run 'apt-file update' as root
< 1272946806 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. Yeah.
< 1272946825 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You would do well to use modules for your kernel.
< 1272946852 0 :cap11235!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He is using a premade kernel.
< 1272946867 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and he's using modules for a different such kernel.
< 1272946878 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.6.28 != 2.6.31
< 1272946906 0 :cap11235!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but the 2.6.31 doesn't seem to have the module for his audio.
< 1272946915 0 :cap11235!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apt-file will answer it...
< 1272946920 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: nah.. just that the kernel/sound directory is missing in my 2.6.31
< 1272946950 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-34-17-217.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272947071 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay apt-file is done updating
< 1272947107 0 :cap11235!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"apt-file search snd-au8830.ko" as root
< 1272947135 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh.. you can use packages.ubuntu.com to do that too :)
< 1272947152 0 :cap11235!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION learns something new everyday
< 1272947162 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice, though.. lots of results
< 1272947205 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting.. seems like it sound be installing.. checking
< 1272947270 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err that was not coherent, sorry
< 1272947283 0 :cap11235!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are installing linux-image-2.6.31-14-generic?
< 1272947305 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux-image-2.6.31-21-generic
< 1272947311 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like an upgrade
< 1272947416 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyhow, upgrading.. it's possible that the ossv4 install is what wiped out the modules
< 1272947429 0 :cap11235!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unlikely, though.
< 1272947432 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had sound before, it was just crappy
< 1272947475 0 :cap11235!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, we will see. Will you go with OSS or ALSA after?
< 1272947500 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never had any trouble with alsa until recently, dunno what happened
< 1272947524 0 :cap11235!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe pulseaudio was just being a bitch?
< 1272947530 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only way I could get audio to play was oss, otherwise it was just noise
< 1272947557 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried uninstalling pulseaudio and using esound instead, and neither
< 1272947566 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afk reboot
< 1272947571 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for your help btw
< 1272947594 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1272947835 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272948475 0 :bsmntbombdood!~gavin@97-118-212-50.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272950187 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This chain mail can't even decide if it wants you to pass it on to 5 or 10 people
< 1272950210 0 :Oranjer1!~HP_Admini@adsl-34-17-217.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272950222 0 :cap11235!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15!
< 1272950739 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1272950984 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1272953180 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :til chain mail over the usps 1) used to exist and 2) is now illegal
< 1272953454 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1272953780 0 :Deewiant!~deewiant@kekkonen.cs.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272954976 0 :bsmntbombdood_!~gavin@174-16-206-158.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272954983 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services
< 1272954985 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :bsmntbombdood
< 1272956449 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272956453 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272956859 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1272957878 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272958145 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION :( at Network Headache becoming unimplemented
< 1272958157 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should make an Erlang implementation!
< 1272959268 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We should use Chinese characters for writing everything. (ć‘ should ä˝ż ćĽ˘ ĺ­— for ć›¸ing ćŻŽç‰©.) Why? Because I said so dammit. (Why? Because ç§ č¨€d so dammit!)
< 1272959288 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In other news, it is late and I am moderately silly and should go to bed.
< 1272959609 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1272959927 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ninight all
< 1272959936 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually turning my computer off tonight.. it seems a bit hot
< 1272959999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1272960000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272960686 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1272961096 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1272961812 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: null
< 1272961849 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272961903 0 :calamari!~calamari@ip70-162-184-104.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272961913 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that was fun lol
< 1272961927 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lost video.. but I solved it
< 1272963755 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm?
< 1272964405 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@ix.ceid.upatras.gr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272965420 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1272967946 0 :lereah_!~lereah@nanpc301.in2p3.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272968788 0 :hiato!~fdulu@41-132-16-47.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272970235 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1272970631 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272972583 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272972651 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272973350 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my paper about Turing machines  http://bit.ly/cL93k3
< 1272973370 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23 pages, and I'm still gauging how finishing it screwed up my sleep schedule
< 1272973397 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :completely, or just a lot
< 1272973510 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've just spent the last night writing a case note on the SCO v. Novell case for the "Law in Network Society" course. Not that one less than sleepy night will have any long-lasting effects, but right now the tiredness. Especially with that particular topic.
< 1272973569 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: not sure. I might still be able to recover, but I woke up at 3 AM (3.75 hours ago) and I'm just going with that for now
< 1272973578 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Courteous of SCO to keep doing the insane, though; their latest (April 27th) filings means I'm oh-so-topical.
< 1272973593 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the paper does have pretty diagrams though. if you like visualizations of tape or nicely formatted state diagrams
< 1272973597 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCO, or suing a dead horse
< 1272973616 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there's your title)
< 1272973643 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i guess it needs to be in finnish
< 1272973649 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, English.
< 1272973653 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah.
< 1272973721 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes that SCO "dead horse" gives about 3410 google hits.
< 1272973736 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1272973740 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that isn't the latest filing any more
< 1272973748 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latest is about them selling off lots and lots of little stuff
< 1272973753 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like domain names, laptops and forklift trucks
< 1272973777 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@ix.ceid.upatras.gr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272973790 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That's part of the bankrutpcy case, though, not SCO v. Novell.
< 1272973797 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, good point
< 1272973819 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though like I complained a moment ago; "One has to wonder about the whole bankruptcy mechanism. I was under the impression that the idea was that the company's creditors would get, in a reasonably fair manner, as much out of the company as possible; I'm not sure how well that is served by feeding $100k/month to some sort of "crisis management" company."
< 1272973873 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had to focus a bit; summarizing the whole SCO story in three pages would have been a bit too ambitious, so I just covered the parts related to the "who owns Unix" question.
< 1272974007 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has aspects of the farcical; after losing in court, they appeal and demand a jury trial; the court of appeals surprisingly-ishly agrees and grants that; the jury unanimously says the same thing the court did; so now they want either a special overrule-the-jury judgement, or a new jury, because "the jury simply got it wrong" (direct quote).
< 1272974068 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's possible they're just not very good losers.
< 1272974142 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1272974223 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The most recent thing of list of sold stuff is a funny read too, though. Purchaser: "Deseret Industries", "Canon Copier - not functional", consideration: $0, "donated".
< 1272974253 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They've also sold 2 boxes of tape for $399 via eBay to a "Bouz1956".
< 1272974285 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And donated 50 file cabinets to "Farm Equipment business".
< 1272974337 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Supreme Court made a filing in that case recently, btw, giving SCO more time to respond to Novell's case
< 1272974361 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are they donating when they're in bankruptcy, I wonder?
< 1272974421 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly no-one would have paid them for a broken copier, and junking it would've actually cost money.
< 1272974450 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I would assume you could get at least nominal compensation for 50 file cabinets.
< 1272974490 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1272974570 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272975033 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: underflow
< 1272975093 0 :hiato!~fdulu@41-132-16-47.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272975209 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272975418 0 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272976319 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That encoding: Split the program to segments, splitting at '[' and ']'. There will be 2k+1 segments (possibly empty), where k is number of loops.
< 1272976383 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then for each segment, write it as base-6 number (least-signficant first, using some mapping of 6 remaining instructions to digits).
< 1272976485 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then add (6^(l+1)-1)/5 (where l is length of segment) to number obtained in order to make encodings of different length segments unique.
< 1272976523 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every possible different segment gets different number and every non-negative number corresponds to some segment
< 1272976606 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then take 1st (LSB) bit of 1st segment, 1st bit of 2nd segment, ..., 1st bit of 2k+1st segment, 2nd bit of 1st segment, 2nd bit of 2nd segment and so on. Concatenate bits in this order to get new number (X_2)
< 1272976610 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and?  you still haven't gotten to the hard part...
< 1272976634 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..darn.
< 1272976678 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, still not...
< 1272976703 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make ordered tree that has root node and node for every loop. For nested loops, node for nested loop is child of node for nesting loop. Encode this tree using bijection to nonnegative integers (I haven't worked this out yet) to get X_1.
< 1272976746 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, that X_2 has 1st bit of 1st segment as LSB (the order goes that way).
< 1272976787 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then take 1st bit of X_1, 1st bit of X_2, 2nd bit of X_1, 2nd bit of X_2 (and so on), concatenating (1st bit of X_1 winds up as LSB). Resulting X, the encoding of program.
< 1272976821 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As said, I haven't fully solved encoding ordered trees...
< 1272976884 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that X_1 encoding is inefficient if segment lengths vary widely, as discussed yesterday.
< 1272976899 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1272976919 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X_2 you mean?
< 1272976924 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the
< 1272976944 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tried to correct that 1 to 2 at _least_ twice O_O
< 1272976955 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have _no_ idea how it got through :D
< 1272976993 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272977006 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Encoding Lost Kingdom, with any reasonable way to get X_1, X_2 will be much larger, yielding final number with 80M-90M digits...
< 1272977020 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, X_1 is just an encoding of the [ and ] only
< 1272977032 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes, it is.
< 1272977075 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is possible that one of the already used methods will be good enough for that
< 1272977086 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there isn't that much extra to blow things up
< 1272977132 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are C_k (kth catalan number) different structures for program with k loops...
< 1272977141 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh those again right
< 1272977224 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That can be used to simplify(?) problem to encoding ordered trees to encoding ordered trees with k nodes to [0, C_k - 1].
< 1272977258 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, X_1 will likely be much smaller than X_2, again wasting 0 bits
< 1272977261 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think
< 1272977290 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One could vary spacing of X_1 bits (as long as the positions form fixed sequence).
< 1272977311 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that can get at most almost half of the bits.
< 1272977331 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we already have the triangular method for combining two numbers
< 1272977466 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm it's possible that _too_ is actually unbalanced when the size difference is large.
< 1272977505 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the combined number is on the order of (m+n)^2/2
< 1272977506 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Also a minor nit; you say "add (6^(l+1)-1)/5" -- so the length 0 segment maps to (6^(0+1)-1)/5 = 1, the 6 possible length 1 segments to numbers starting from (6^(1+1)-1)/5 = 7, etc; I guess you mean without the "+1" in the exponent?
< 1272977530 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah yes.
< 1272977649 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mn is about what you'd get by concatenating the bits, this is twice that for equal numbers but much larger if m is 1, say
< 1272977686 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n^2/2 vs. n
< 1272977701 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272977754 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact the triangular method may have about the _same_ size as the bit interleaving method, come to think of it.
< 1272977781 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for one number very small, both waste about the number of bits of the other
< 1272977800 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Do you want to generalize the so-called "triangular" method formulas to some sort of hyperpyramidal method so that it combines N numbers at once? That sounds like it'd be funky.
< 1272977811 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: already did that
< 1272977819 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I had missed that.
< 1272977863 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never looked much at reversing it, that would seem to involve nth roots at least
< 1272977905 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C(x1+x2+...+xn,2) + C(x1+...+x(n-1),2) + ... + C(x1+x2, 2) + x1
< 1272977910 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er no
< 1272977921 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*C(x1+x2+...+xn,n) + C(x1+...+x(n-1),n-1) + ... + C(x1+x2, 2) + x1
< 1272977935 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess x1 = C(x1,1)
< 1272978067 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It appears that triangular numbers might be sightly smaller (at most 1 bit difference per combining).
< 1272978140 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the purpose of this discussion, btw? finding a way to compress Lost Kingdom as far as possible?
< 1272978142 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :difference to what?
< 1272978146 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If numbers are approximately equal, they come even. So unbalanced case is the better case.
< 1272978149 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh
< 1272978178 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Bijection of BF with natural numbers.
< 1272978185 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: aha
< 1272978188 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: no, unbalanced is horrible for both, assuming you'd want the combined number of bits to be approx. the sum
< 1272978217 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you mean just the difference between triangular and interleaving
< 1272978313 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, there might be more difference. 1st number being 2^100 and 2nd being 2^500 would give 1002 bit number with interleaving. The triangular number would be 1/2 * (2^500 + 2^100) * (2^500 + 2^100 - 1) + 2^500. This is approximately 1/2 * 2^1000 = 2^999. So 2 bit difference.
< 1272978387 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about if one number is about square root of the other...
< 1272978394 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2^100 and 2^200 say
< 1272978419 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so as far from both the "one tiny" and "about equal" cases as possible)
< 1272978451 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interleaving, 401 i assume
< 1272978501 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell 1/2 * (2^100 + 2^200) * (2^100 + 2^200 - 1) + 2^200
< 1272978504 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.2911249390434543e120
< 1272978509 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er
< 1272978517 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell logBase 2 $ 1/2 * (2^100 + 2^200) * (2^100 + 2^200 - 1) + 2^200
< 1272978518 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :399.0
< 1272978538 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so still not much difference
< 1272978611 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell logBase 2 $ 1/2 * (2^500 + 2^1000) * (2^500 + 2^1000 - 1) + 2^1000
< 1272978613 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Infinity
< 1272978616 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn
< 1272978669 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're the necromather, why don't you figure out something that gives you the sum of their sizes?
< 1272978696 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Okay, so I just wanted to get to use the word "necromather".)
< 1272978712 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had that fibonacci thing, but it has a logBase phi 2  overhead
< 1272978716 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For hyperpyramidal thing, I get difference in order of k log_2 k bits... Which would be about 650kb with 42k segments (Lost Kingdom-sized program)...
< 1272978774 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the initial C(x1+...+xn, n) term obviously dominates
< 1272978778 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not a lot of difference, considering that number will have 150M-160M bits anyway...
< 1272978793 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm
< 1272978865 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, later.
< 1272978870 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1272978978 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So variable spacing in interleaving X_1 and X_2 saves much more (Easily 100Mb with Lost Kingdom) than using hyperpyramidals instead of simple bit interleaving (hardly even 1Mb).
< 1272979016 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And bit interleaving is probably way faster.
< 1272979389 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bit interleaving is perhaps a bit (no pun intended) inelegent to write in the usual arithmetic operations provided. At least compared to the triangles.
< 1272979780 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1272981398 0 :base3!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone know if there's a freenode channel for discussion of literate programming?
< 1272982581 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
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< 1272984498 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272985504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hi there, I don't remember if you told me (or if I even asked) about delay simulation back when I asked about vhdl simulation for linux several weeks ago. ghdl seems to only do "logic" simulation with no delay (which is of course also useful).
< 1272985523 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it does delay simulation, but you need to write the delays into the source
< 1272985526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1272985530 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. a <= b OR c after 10 ns
< 1272985552 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how other delay simulators work too, just the commercial ones have tools to automatically write all the delays into the source
< 1272985560 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's commercially sensitive information, pretty obviously
< 1272985575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about delay simulation as in "delay of this stuff from the syntheis program output" kind of stuff?
< 1272985589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1272985596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so those tend to be windows only?
< 1272985607 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: actually, they mostly run on Linux too, they're just very expensive
< 1272985610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1272985615 0 :base3!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1272985629 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably enough commercial microchip design companies use Linux that it's worth supporting it on that
< 1272985665 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, isn't the manufacture of the FPGA interested in selling the hardware rather than the development software?
< 1272985676 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, they make money from both
< 1272985700 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally there's a crappy free version of the dev software, and a very expensive professional version that contains all the features that businesses actually need, like delay annotation
< 1272985713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1272985833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about universities? There should be an interest in getting students familiar with your products rather than those from the competitors. Looks like conflicting interests there when it comes to deciding what the price should be
< 1272985851 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: universities generally get copies for free, that's how I got mine
< 1272985864 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272985890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, but students don't spent all the time in the lab, wouldn't it make sense to be able to do some such work from home as well and so on
< 1272985944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also ghdl seems strange in some respects. For example what is the point of that work-obj93.cf file...
< 1272985958 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it looks like it should be very hard to make ghdl behave nicely together with makefiles
< 1272985961 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: VHDL's compilation method is bizarre
< 1272985973 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can define one entity in more than one way
< 1272985979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes I know about that
< 1272985993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not fully about the reasons for it though
< 1272985995 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's designed to allow hot-swapping bits of the program
< 1272986019 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd have, say, a delay-annotated architecture as an autogenerated second architecture for your entities
< 1272986031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the reason I heard was "sometimes you can't synthesise your original variant, so you write another alternative one"
< 1272986040 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that as well
< 1272986041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are some issues with that reason too though
< 1272986049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, why not just replace the old one instead
< 1272986069 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :often you have a synthesis design that can't be simulated, and a simulation design that can't be synthesised
< 1272986073 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both bought from a third partyt
< 1272986074 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*party
< 1272986075 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1272986091 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the simulation design looks like C or an imperative language like that
< 1272986107 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the synthesis design is along the lines of "set bit 123 to 1, set bit 124 to 0, set bit 125 to 1..." which is no use to anyone
< 1272986116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also wtf at the file name here (from ghdl tutorial, just to check that the install works): e~hello.o
< 1272986121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~ in a filename wtf
< 1272986187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm, wouldn't it be "set bit 123 to bit 2 xor bit 43" or such? or what do you mean
< 1272986206 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, I mean the individual control bits inside the FPGA
< 1272986209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right
< 1272986232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but isn't that more like the binary file? As in, it isn't vhdl any more then
< 1272986234 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this stuff's all deliberately undocumented, just to add to the fun, so you /have/ to buy the code from a third-party rather than writing it yourself
< 1272986240 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, it's basically just a binary file
< 1272986265 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although sometimes they get converted to ASCII and it's just a long list of numbers separated by commas
< 1272986272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, someone should make an open source fpga or such, or at least a well documented one.
< 1272986289 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :setup costs are too high
< 1272986295 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd cost millions to get the things manufactured
< 1272986306 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, I don't understand the FPGA market at all
< 1272986308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably that would actually be a competitive advantage, you can claim you, unlike all others, don't do vendor lock-in
< 1272986329 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: effectively that would be vendor lock-in, on the basis that all the /other/ vendors are locked in and won't accept your programs
< 1272986382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, sure, but this avoids bitrot presumably. Even if the vendor stops maintaining software to work with very old no longer produced FPGAs, third parties could still do it
< 1272986416 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I think it would be hilarious to put you in the same room as a manager in an FPGA company
< 1272986424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1272986428 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eventually you'd give up talking to each other because you didn't speak the same language
< 1272986458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway, I don't understand ghdl's compilation procedure, as in. It makes no sense at all
< 1272986469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why for example ghdl -a first
< 1272986478 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's just say, it makes a lot more sense than the commercial ones, and leave it at that
< 1272986483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how on earth does one make this work with a makefile
< 1272986494 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just do the -a -e and so on in order
< 1272986521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about that work-ob93.cf?
< 1272986538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it seems to break make -j2 if you have many files for ghdl to compile in a project
< 1272986542 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: everything in VHDL is namespaced
< 1272986548 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "work" is the default namespace
< 1272986551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay...
< 1272986553 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compiling something puts it /into/ that namespace, permanently
< 1272986559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh okay...
< 1272986563 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can reference it from other VHDL files in the same directory
< 1272986577 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore, obviously, parallel make doesn't make sense unless you carefully separate the namespaces in advance
< 1272986604 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so things need to be compiled in the right order? What would happen if I ran ghdl -a on a file that uses another one, before I ran it on that other file
< 1272986636 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC it's like compiling and linking; so long as all the entity declarations are available, you can do -a on everything then -e on everything
< 1272986650 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it doesn't work if you do -a -e on each file individually
< 1272986662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I was thinking something like ghdl on each file to create some intermediate format (could be done in parallel) then linking (not parallel of course)
< 1272986669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this seems to completely break here
< 1272986688 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, the analysis is just basically looking for signatures
< 1272986695 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the elaboration looks at the actual code
< 1272986705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so that shared file is only touched by -a or?
< 1272986737 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's a nice mnemonic: -a looks at the entities, -e looks at the architectures
< 1272986741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1272986745 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think it's written by -a and read by -e
< 1272986765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that will be one very messy makefile still
< 1272986790 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1272986795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't make the .cf file depend on anything properly
< 1272986802 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, for added fun, the commercial tools generate makefiles, then run them via cygwin
< 1272986806 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, the Xilinx ones do
< 1272986813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if two files were changed that will not do the right thing...
< 1272986830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, wtf
< 1272986852 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even more fun, because presumably they've paid Cygnus for a license for all this
< 1272986861 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Cygwin is GPL if you don't pay, license of your choice if you do)
< 1272986884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but what about the software in cygwin? cygnus doesn't own gnu make and so on
< 1272986889 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :current theory: the tools date from before Windows existed
< 1272986902 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I actually don't know, maybe it isn't GNU make they're using, but some other make
< 1272986908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1272986915 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you think the tools are that old btw?
< 1272986945 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't think of any other plausible explanation
< 1272986955 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the fact that they don't run properly on 64-bit systems or windows 7
< 1272986959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you mean they were written for *nix?
< 1272986961 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we had to set up a Windows XP VM just to be able to use them
< 1272986967 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I think they were originally written for *nix
< 1272986975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also ouch at 64-bit
< 1272986980 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would explain the Linux support, and the arbitrary and unexpected use of cygwin
< 1272986989 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: there's a 64-bit version, but it's missing loads of features
< 1272986997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see..
< 1272987023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and the 32-bit version doesn't run on 64-bit windows?
< 1272987039 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct
< 1272987041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the only reason for that would be that they use 16-bit code...
< 1272987052 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, actually it does, but many of its features are missing if you do
< 1272987066 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly only in later versions of windows, though
< 1272987066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you can no longer run such code when in long mode on x86_64
< 1272987074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh another ghdl wtf: ldd indicates that the compiled program links against libgnat...
< 1272987084 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that doesn't surprise me
< 1272987088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why?
< 1272987091 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VHDL was intentionally designed close to ADA
< 1272987095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1272987100 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't surprise me if some of the libraries were, as a result, virtually identical
< 1272987108 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus linking against libgnat was easier than rewriting it
< 1272987109 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also links libz
< 1272987118 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which when you consider it, is even more wtf
< 1272987120 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that's so you can output the wave file compressed
< 1272987130 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is needed, considering how big and repetitive the things are
< 1272987156 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ghdl's major use is to run the resulting program to produce a wave file, then look at it on gtkwave or something)
< 1272987160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and now to figure out which files a make clean target would remove. I still haven't figured out how to properly do dependencies for generated files...
< 1272987172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably it would be a timestamp file for every file to make it work
< 1272987176 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: just delete the entire directory and restore the source from backup
< 1272987182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1272987194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghdl --clean? Do I dare ask what that does...
< 1272987203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1272987207 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or how it does it rather
< 1272987224 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's described as "remove generated files", presumably it's the inverse of the compile process
< 1272987240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, wait a second, why restore? Doesn't ghdl support out of tree builds? Or at least separate object file directory or such
< 1272987264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbiab, phone rang... annoyingly
< 1272987271 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the concept of "out of tree builds" probably doesn't exist in VHDL generally
< 1272987296 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the commercial tools make it rather unclear that anything exists besides the project, source and generated files and binaries and etc are all bundled together in arbitrary entities
< 1272987305 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you have to look at the directory structure by hand to figure out how it's done
< 1272987821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back
< 1272987826 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: openttd time
< 1272987845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it does make version control somewhat annoying presumably
< 1272987861 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they come with hand-rolled version control
< 1272987867 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is basically a menu option to make a checkpoint
< 1272987874 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which spends around half an hour backing up the entire project
< 1272987893 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I /think/ it's actually just bundling it all into a .tgz behind the scenes, and the huge length of time is because it's backing up thousands of binaries as well as the sources
< 1272987910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :half an hour?
< 1272987914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how large is the project then
< 1272987976 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1272988377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway, when does a file need to be re-analysed?
< 1272988382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in ghdl -a
< 1272988396 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you change the entities in it, I think
< 1272988400 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just always reanalyse it, it saves trouble
< 1272988404 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's not like it takes that long
< 1272988407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true
< 1272988430 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are non-manual incremental builds even feasible at all?
< 1272988585 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how does programs decide which of the defined implementations (or whatever the term is) of a given entity to use?
< 1272988593 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea
< 1272988593 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :programs as in simulations and synthesis
< 1272988609 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably there's some way to specify one, otherwise it picks one arbitrarily
< 1272988620 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but so far I've never been able to specify one, just had to go with the one it happened to use
< 1272988625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how often have you used multiple implementations?
< 1272988690 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only when told to by the teachers to prove I could
< 1272988710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I presume it would be interesting to test multiple ones to compare that they do the same thing (for all valid inputs if combinatorial at least, a bit harder if you have something with state)
< 1272988711 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise, there isn't much of a point unless you're doing automated annotation, etc, or have to buy simulation and synthesis implementations from a third party
< 1272988727 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or worse, one synthesis and three simulation implementations designed for different sorts of simulations
< 1272988733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1272988750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you get 3 different ones?
< 1272988766 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two I can imagine: with/without delay
< 1272988776 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's more than one sort of delay you can measure
< 1272988790 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort-of "delay in theory" vs. "delay with this particular place-and-route"
< 1272988812 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second is basically like profile-guided optimisation, except instead of optimising the compile with the results from a run, you simulate the source with the results from a compile
< 1272988869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how can you do delay in theory without knowing the routing?
< 1272988880 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's approximate I think
< 1272988885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you just consider the delay in gates, but not in wires?
< 1272988901 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure, it's not like there's any documentation on how the stuff /works/
< 1272988932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it seems useless if you don't know what it actually simulates.
< 1272988948 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, the info's bound to be available somewhere
< 1272988963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay
< 1272988964 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably by phoning up a friend you have at Xilinx and asking them directly, that's how we got most of the actual useful information we use
< 1272988972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1272989011 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, don't they wonder at any point: "Hmm, will this crappy stuff make us look bad?"
< 1272989018 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theory: this is meta-job security, people making sure that if they're fired from Xilinx or Altera they'll always be able to get a job just consulting at companies to explain htf you use their products
< 1272989026 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, because it's par for the course
< 1272989033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from what I heard so far I concluded to avoid that brand if possible
< 1272989033 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they look bad, but not any worse than any of their competitorss
< 1272989035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1272989035 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*competitors
< 1272989104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and yet no one tried to increase their market share by making themselves look better than their competitors?
< 1272989122 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, because their customers care more about features than usability
< 1272989138 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1272989152 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some reason management care more about the advertised list of features when buying hideously expensive microchip synthesisers/simulators
< 1272989161 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than the actual usability for the employees who have to use the things
< 1272989180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what do we learn from this? I think one of the things may be "free market is yet again proved not to work"
< 1272989239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, are most of those feature actually that useful though?
< 1272989250 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, what did you expect?
< 1272989258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh
< 1272989275 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :half are actually counterproductive, in that you're told to use the feature rather than doing it the way you'd do it by hand without the feature, which would have been easier
< 1272989299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what do big companies like, say, IBM or such do then? Don't they at least have a bit more sense.
< 1272989317 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, they just make their own internal documentation for other people's products, I imagine
< 1272989321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1272989335 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then claim ISO 9000 compliance as a side effect
< 1272989346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did I came to think of bankstar suddenly
< 1272989351 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISO 9000?
< 1272989393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what is ISO 9000? Or was that just a random number?
< 1272989416 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's basically a pointless "standard"
< 1272989419 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISO 9000 is a family of stuff, mostly about having business processes that are all documented to the tiniest detail.
< 1272989422 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which companies claim compliance to
< 1272989428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhu
< 1272989431 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, it's about documenting everything you do and always doing it the same way
< 1272989434 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is also all about Quality.
< 1272989444 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :regardless of what that process actually /is/, or whether it makes sense
< 1272989465 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :managers think it's very important, although none of them can explain why
< 1272989491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw, I have a hard time seeing how FPGA vendors can enforce vendor lock in, after all VHDL is an ISO (or was it IEEE?) standard.
< 1272989507 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: they don't lock in the language, but the source
< 1272989516 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine if you had to rent your libc from a commercial vendor
< 1272989517 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like that
< 1272989537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, find , -name '*.fileext'  to find the vhdl files? then import it into another system from another vendor?
< 1272989542 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, a better example would be if libc was open-source, but you had to rent a whole bunch of random libraries
< 1272989559 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Find from the comma-directory.
< 1272989576 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, you can't do that; partly because the files are massively obfuscated, partly because they're written in incredibly system-specific ways, partly because you have to agree to a licence not to do that, and partly because of the insane DRM involved over the whole process
< 1272989580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, rent? Do you pay per month for those FPGA synthesisers and such!?
< 1272989590 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, typo :P
< 1272989597 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the synthesisers, you pay per version, effectively
< 1272989603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1272989607 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't pay, because of the free versions given to universities)
< 1272989611 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you rent the libraries
< 1272989621 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but if you write your code in vhdl I can't see how you just move the files elsewhere
< 1272989625 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :things like multipliers you normally get for free (because the open-source versions are just as good)
< 1272989646 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but things like ethernet modules you mostly just get the binaries, and they're specific to a specific version of a specific processor
< 1272989647 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You write your code in C, so you can switch operating systems with abandon, right?
< 1272989671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well, okay, C itself is a bit annoyingly limited, rather more like POSIX
< 1272989691 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: let's just say, there aren't things like ethernet libraries in the VHDL standard
< 1272989694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way you can go to any *nix vendor in theory (sure I admit there are some compat issues, and there are always bugs)
< 1272989704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about open source vhdl for that?
< 1272989716 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :open-source vhdl exists
< 1272989725 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the chip designers go out of their way to not give you the info needed to use it
< 1272989742 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenCores has quite a collection, I believe. Never had had an occasion to browse, though.
< 1272989743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, sure you need to interface the pins manually, but a lot of the stuff, like building ethernet frames would be vendor independent, no?
< 1272989755 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. I tried and failed for two weeks to discover which pins on the chip were connected to which features on the demo board of the demo board we have
< 1272989770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :demo board of a demo board?
< 1272989775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(what happened there)
< 1272989783 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'm an OpenCores member, partly as a protest against all this BS
< 1272989799 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although OpenCores is pretty wtfy itself, it just manages to be a lot less wtfy than the Xilinx (and presumably Altera) stuff
< 1272989810 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you misparsed the sentence
< 1272989810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway, where did you get the ethernet hardware from? The same vendor?
< 1272989820 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it was connected to the chip, physically
< 1272989824 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we could tell it was working
< 1272989828 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but we still don't know how to use it
< 1272989853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well you wouldn't have a demo board in real production hardware would you?
< 1272989890 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, you wouldn't; except, to add to the fun, the tools that you use to create all the ethernet stuff, etc, generate it assuming that you're using the same connections as on the demo board
< 1272989909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case you could take a third party ethernet hardware (the contact and presumably some other things, I don't know exactly how much of the ethernet hardware can be done in an FPGA...) and just build your own
< 1272989956 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be pretty expensive just to build the hardware to connect the FPGA to the ethernet hardware
< 1272989965 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd need to do things like generate a circuit board, etc
< 1272989982 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and FPGAs have pins so dense that you can't do it by hand, you pretty much need an automatic multilayer circuit board maker machine
< 1272989994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, isn't there already ethernet hardware out there from third parties?
< 1272990013 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: of course, it's connecting it to the FPGA that's the issue, not the hardware itself
< 1272990047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, a third party one would most probably come with docs (since there would be no other way for users to use it, right?)
< 1272990061 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272990063 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you'd be surprised
< 1272990068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh?
< 1272990074 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for third-party hardware, the docs have ranged all the way from brilliant to useless
< 1272990095 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the normal way to use the hardware with useless docs is to find decent docs from a competitor's product that does the same thing, then use those
< 1272990104 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they all try to be pin-compatible with each other
< 1272990112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, an informal standard?
< 1272990122 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, pretty much
< 1272990139 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thousands of them, one for each sort of hardware component you could imagine
< 1272990153 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well that should simplify things, there is *bound* to be someone else who already interfaced this informal standard and who made something open source for it
< 1272990166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least for the more common components
< 1272990179 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the problem is, it's pairs of components you worry about
< 1272990184 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, that hardware + that FPGA
< 1272990201 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most individual pairs haven't been done yet (most people can neither afford to work with FPGAs, nor put up with them even if they could afford it)
< 1272990210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay, you have to do the pin layout anyway, surely most of the time you need some custom hardware anyway
< 1272990214 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and instructions for that sort of thing have a rather short half-life
< 1272990228 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because features keep being changed or breaking at random or moved to different programs, etc
< 1272990234 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the FPGA programming software
< 1272990261 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so okay, a lot of the ethenet example is device independent, couldn't you do something like driver + pin_mapper, where you just had to write the latter bit
< 1272990279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would just be some short file listing which pins you mapped to what for the ethernet hardware
< 1272990288 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is that you're massively discouraged from doing that bit
< 1272990288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems pretty sensible
< 1272990296 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want a bit of fun, have a look at what the pin mapper software actually /is/
< 1272990300 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a massive and almost unusable GUI
< 1272990307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I invented the word "pin mapper" here
< 1272990313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in
< 1272990320 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :last time I used it, I clicked on things at random, then figured out where its output file was, then looked at the format and edited it by hand, more or less
< 1272990321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know it referred to a specific existing software
< 1272990325 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :amusingly, the output file was short and simple
< 1272990330 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it is specific existing software
< 1272990336 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a GUI that fills the entire screen, and uses all of it
< 1272990345 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and where changing anything requires going through two nested dialog boxes
< 1272990354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway an FPGA would often be pretty useless if you can't interface your own custom hardware as well. Which would presumably include things like custom sensor devices or whatever
< 1272990356 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I completely fail to understand how it can be /that/ complex, btw
< 1272990373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes me too
< 1272990384 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it seems that the trend nowadays is for FPGAs to be used standalone and communicate via ethernet or I2C or whatever with the other components
< 1272990388 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which seems bizarre to me
< 1272990402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what I was thinking about was more something like: #define ETH_TX pin1732
< 1272990403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such
< 1272990405 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably, you'd use an ASIC if you were using enough of them to actually be worth shipping in a commercial project
< 1272990406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a file with such
< 1272990413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then that would be used for the generic driver
< 1272990416 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's pretty much what the .hcf file it's editing is
< 1272990421 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's a different format, ofc
< 1272990427 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes, that was C syntax
< 1272990428 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not VHDL, it's in its own format)
< 1272990431 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would be rather silly
< 1272990467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm wait a second
< 1272990473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I2C or ethernet?
< 1272990477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a gap there
< 1272990500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, isn't I2C rather slow?
< 1272990516 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on what you're using it for
< 1272990524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, somewhat fast memory
< 1272990528 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hardware that does anything but calculating tends to be intrinsically rather slow
< 1272990536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, lets say you want to use a FPGA to do ray-tracing
< 1272990538 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you wouldn't use I2C for the memory, agreed
< 1272990550 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd probably just use the demo board, and connect it to your computer over ethernet or PCI or something
< 1272990551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but using ethernet for memory would be *very* silly
< 1272990557 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the demo boards often come with PCI connectors)
< 1272990568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, using ethernet would be silly for anything but other "nodes" or such
< 1272990598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, a demo board seems rather useless if you want to sell this product with an FPGA doing ray tracing
< 1272990617 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you don't, though; FPGAs are normally used internally
< 1272990619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you want to put it on a PCIe board with memory basically
< 1272990621 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you don't care about how ridiculous it looks
< 1272990635 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are companies which do just sell PCIe boards with FPGAs and memory, though
< 1272990640 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could use one of those
< 1272990642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I remember reading about an FPGA-based rendering product, commercial
< 1272990647 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(unfortunately, the documentation is equally insane...)
< 1272990661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FPGA because it was rather niche and ASIC would have been uneconomical
< 1272990680 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, sigh...
< 1272990751 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, actually when it comes to cost for producing open source FPGAs, isn't there some thing for universities to group together on one wafer and do various projects on different parts of it?
< 1272990762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read about that somewhere
< 1272990780 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly, but you'd still be spending a million divided by the number of projects, which is still likely to be quite a lot
< 1272990784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a few circuits for each project, and lots and lots of projects
< 1272990793 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm true
< 1272990860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway, have you reverse engineered that file format for the pin mapper?
< 1272990891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if that is required)
< 1272990902 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's probably documented somewhere
< 1272990907 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the format's incredibly simple as it is
< 1272990911 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah good
< 1272990916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, then just use that directly?
< 1272990918 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically just key-value, with both quoted, separated by =
< 1272990922 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, that's what I do nowadays
< 1272990926 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1272990937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, be happy it wasn't some obfucated binary file format
< 1272990959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl
< 1272991591 0 :lereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1272991974 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1272992595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back
< 1272992651 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272992894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about that genetic algorithm to build a circuit on an FPGA thingy, somewhat well known iirc
< 1272992904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if things are that undocumented how did they manage that
< 1272992918 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :genetic algos work pretty well on undocumented platforms
< 1272992925 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arguably, better than regular algos
< 1272992942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well yes but they would have still had to figure out where to put the input and output into the genetically grown block
< 1272992981 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc they used a "square" of n components that were modified + a bit of fixed stuff to connect the inputs and output to the edges of this area
< 1272992986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is very iirc though
< 1272993072 0 :luko!~luko@85.159.104.244 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272993111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and iirc it did the genetic algorithm directly on the binary. Again only iirc
< 1272993207 0 :impomatic!~chatzilla@87.112.36.213.plusnet.ptn-ag1.dyn.plus.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272993214 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi :-)
< 1272993342 0 :luko!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1272993361 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You mean the http://www.cogs.susx.ac.uk/users/adrianth/ade.html thing? The one that distinguished between a 1 kHz and a 10 kHz tone with just 32 gates, some of which weren't even connected (but still had an effect on the circuit).
< 1272993376 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm not sure if there's any details available through the page, though.)
< 1272993378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes that sounds like the one
< 1272993451 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's in one of the Science of Discworld books too. :p
< 1272993640 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it distinguished between two waveforms using only combinatorial logic, which is obviously impossible
< 1272993651 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so obviously it was exploiting non-ideal behaviour of the components it was made from
< 1272993694 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272993707 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; but it's still nifty.
< 1272993751 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Virtual Organisms mentions something about evolved gate arrays.  If the gates which aren't connected to the circuit are removed, it stops working.
< 1272993753 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weird.
< 1272993794 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've ordered a FPGA dev board to experiment with it myself
< 1272993909 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://swtch.com/r.zip -- a sort of a zip-quine; it expands to itself, except in a subdirectory r/.
< 1272993936 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't know where it came from, might be old; link via another channel.
< 1272993959 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was being discussed a few days ago on reddit
< 1272993969 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :along with .gz and .tar.gz versions
< 1272993986 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1272993994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> It's in one of the Science of Discworld books too. :p <-- yes I think that is where I first read about it
< 1272994012 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A compression file format is a bit of a natural platform for that sort of stuff.
< 1272994071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how do you manage to get itself back, doesn't zip files contain some sort of checksum which might make the whole thing harder?
< 1272994142 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I would assume it complicates things; but the checksum's not exactly cryptographically strong.
< 1272994160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crc?
< 1272994229 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some CRC-32 variant, IIRC.
< 1272994243 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272994331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1272994445 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ISSNC 2010, 17th International Summer School in Novel Computing"; presumably for people who are both computer scientists and novelists.
< 1272994649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh?
< 1272994765 0 :cap11235!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1272994828 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what free alternatives are there to ghdl (if any)?
< 1272994835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :free open source I mean
< 1272994836 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know of any
< 1272994840 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't mean there aren't any, ofc
< 1272994849 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it does mean I can't point you to them
< 1272994860 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: null
< 1272994905 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1272995057 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272995442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what is the simplest way to make a test suite or such for a (stateless) entity in vhdl?
< 1272995454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, I just want to test all input signals and get a time diagram
< 1272995458 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :write it in imperative VHDL
< 1272995467 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something as simple as using initialised signals
< 1272995473 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :together with a <= not a after 10 ns
< 1272995476 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :b <= not b after 20 ns
< 1272995479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1272995479 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c <= not c after 40 ns
< 1272995481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1272995495 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a <= a + 1 if they're integers rather than std_logics
< 1272995549 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, shouldn't there just be a way to do: for each number in range 0000 1111... and then use that to generate the time diagram
< 1272995553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you see what I mean
< 1272995565 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: but that doesn't specify the timings
< 1272995582 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a <= conv_std_logic(conv_integer(a)+1) after 10 ns
< 1272995585 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the thing I want to test have no timing info currently
< 1272995586 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, that's pretty simple
< 1272995588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1272995593 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1272995647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the example "test bench" at http://ghdl.free.fr/ghdl/A-full-adder.html seems quite confusing
< 1272995657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, forgot you ignore links
< 1272995662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was from the ghdl manual
< 1272995668 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test benches can be written to be synthesisable, it's harder then
< 1272995669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test bench for a full adder
< 1272995676 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the reason is that test benches are normally full of asserts
< 1272995684 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, actually test the outputs, rather than just generating them
< 1272995690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses:
< 1272995691 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :           type pattern_array is array (natural range <>) of pattern_type;
< 1272995692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :           constant patterns : pattern_array :=
< 1272995698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then a list of the binary numbers
< 1272995700 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally you rewrite what the circuit's meant to do in imperative VHDL< and compare
< 1272995708 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, natural range <>
< 1272995715 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VHDL array syntax is so cute
< 1272995718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ?
< 1272995723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does natural range <> mean?
< 1272995797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also this seems weird: assert false report "end of test" severity note;
< 1272995814 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: welcome to output to stderr
< 1272995825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my god
< 1272995825 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"severity note" means it isn't a problem that the assert fails
< 1272995832 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the assert failure means it gets output
< 1272995835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also why does it end with wait;
< 1272995844 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and to prevent an infinite loop
< 1272995849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see
< 1272995851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I*
< 1272995858 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1272995876 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are missing the point of VHDL if you don't see why you need a pause instruction /somewhere/ in a loop, even an implicit one around a process with no trigger conditions
< 1272995912 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's a nice fun reversal from most languages; in most languages, you put an infinite loop at the end of a program for it to not terminate, in VHDL you put an infinite wait at the end of a process for it to terminate)
< 1272995930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well I can see why it makes sense in the actual thing you are synthesising. But not in a test suite for simulation no
< 1272995946 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the issue is that such test benches abuse vhdl basically
< 1272995946 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's the way VHDL thinks
< 1272995955 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you still have too much of an imperative mindset
< 1272995995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you didn't get around to describing what natural range <> actually meant.
< 1272996006 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not actually sure
< 1272996016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1272996021 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think it defines an array type whose bounds are determined later when it's actually used
< 1272996026 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than having fixed bounds for all instances of the type
< 1272996031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh btw, any idea about this bit: for i in patterns'range loop
< 1272996034 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ' to be specific
< 1272996056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, :D
< 1272996071 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: think of ' in VHDL like -> in C++
< 1272996076 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah I see
< 1272996080 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it basically accesses metadata
< 1272996083 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternatively, it's the cast operator
< 1272996087 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, String'("Hello, world!")
< 1272996101 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which needs to be cast to a string because "" is ambiguous without knowing what type it is)
< 1272996114 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(imagine "1XXUW", is that a string or a std_logic_vector?)
< 1272996141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh I see what that array is, it isn't actually a binary count, it is expected output as well
< 1272996179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I couldn't tell, I'm still learning vhdl
< 1272996191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes it might be ambiguous
< 1272996222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I'm somewhat confused by the use of quotes in VHDL
< 1272996242 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: '' quotes one thing, "" quotes an array of things
< 1272996256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah I see
< 1272996263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what is "thing" here?
< 1272996266 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. '0' is a single std_logic (or possibly something else, you might need to cast it depending on context), "0000" is four std_logics forming a std_logic_vector (again, it might be something else)
< 1272996282 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "thing" is an arbitrary type, you need to cast unless it's clear from the context, which it usually is
< 1272996289 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but quite often it's std_logic
< 1272996359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1272996393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and when is that "bit" type used?
< 1272996416 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very rarely, it's an imperative boolean
< 1272996428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I see
< 1272996431 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you need to be a) writing imperative code, and b) happening to need a boolean
< 1272996436 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the summer school thing was just a miscellaneous ad from my inbox. "Surprisingly" it wasn't related to novels in the book sense at all; was more about robotics and such.
< 1272996438 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that combination doesn't come up a lot
< 1272996450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, where did the word "novel" come from then?
< 1272996472 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might work for something like a flag variable (note, not flag signal)
< 1272996480 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 1. (6) fresh, new, novel -- (original and of a kind not seen before; "the computer produced a completely novel proof of a well-known theorem")
< 1272996490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm
< 1272996520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how is verilog compared to vhdl btw?
< 1272996546 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :used more in academia and less in the military; same feature set; syntax is C-like and rather sloppier than VHDL's
< 1272996580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1272996596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and what about in industry
< 1272996604 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure
< 1272996607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1272996614 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although all the industrial tools default to VHDL, which is a clue
< 1272996627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any linux tools for verilog btw?
< 1272996668 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no free ones that I know of
< 1272996675 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the same expensive ones that do VHDL do Verilog too
< 1272996707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1272996745 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are five open-source ones in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Verilog_simulators but it's anyone's guess how serious those are.
< 1272996789 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The name (Verilog, as opposed to VHDL) is perhaps easier to twist into fancy nomenclature; cf. "Verilator", "VeriWell".
< 1272996837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augh at the latter one
< 1272996851 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272997419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" Copyright (C) 2004, 2005, 2008 Tristan Gingold -- tgingold AT free DOT fr
< 1272997419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last modified: Thu Mar 16 04:39:49 CET 2006 "
< 1272997424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from http://ghdl.free.fr/features.html
< 1272997432 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time travel may be involved
< 1272997443 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for ais: that was from ghdl web site)
< 1272997529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and the copyright line does not seem to be site wide
< 1272997536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor does the last modified date
< 1272997544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so this is quite wtf
< 1272997657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw, found an open source verilog simulation/synthesis tool (subproject of gEDA it seems)
< 1272997668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl in about 1 hour
< 1272998014 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1272998248 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: maybe he was using Apple's Time Machine [tm]
< 1272998621 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1272998728 0 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272998748 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272998770 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272998857 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1272998932 0 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@137.125.180.197 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272999145 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1272999424 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, the "Pattern Recognition Society of Finland" decided to award their yearly "best Master's thesis" award of 2009 to my thing. Now I'm feeling somewhat obligated to join their silly club.
< 1272999451 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was your thesis?
< 1272999477 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Methods for Spectral Envelope Estimation in Noise Robust Speech Recognition"
< 1272999498 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently GSOC gave me a free membership in ACM for a year
< 1272999593 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I understand there was a (very minor) spike in ACM student membership popularity when it turned out you could get access to Microsoft's "academic alliance" software that way. Or at least they bothered to put "Note! The membership does not give you access to Windows 7" on the sign-up page with red letters.
< 1272999668 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, maybe it wasn't red text.
< 1272999681 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And just being a student gets you access to Windows Server 2008.
< 1272999688 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But https://campus.acm.org/public/qj/QuickJoin/qj_control.cfm?form_type=Student still displays quite prominently "The Microsoft Developer Academic Alliance package DOES NOT contain Windows 7."
< 1272999716 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have one Windows box here for when it's absolutely necessary, and I think it's running Server 2003 from the Dreamspark thing.
< 1272999718 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think UW will get me access to various Microsoft softwares
< 1272999737 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1272999741 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: If you're a student, you've got access to Microsoft softwares from Dreamspark.
< 1272999753 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that
< 1272999754 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note. That is not "college student", just "student".
< 1272999765 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of them, yeah
< 1272999770 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the university grants more
< 1272999771 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And technically, all they *check* is that you've got a student email account.
< 1272999774 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True.
< 1272999788 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd investigate more
< 1272999791 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't care
< 1272999796 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But Dreamspark already nets you Server 2008 and Visual Studio. AKA most of the expensive dev software. :P
< 1272999841 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've only used this for the sake of virtualising an Active Directory setup so that I could figure out how to get Linux to use Active Directory for login for work...
< 1272999871 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Server 2008 might not be the nicest workstation OS ever. At least I'm getting a bit bored having to type a reason for shutdown every time I turn off that Server 2003 box. (The "ok" button in the dialog is disabled until you write something in the "why you be shutting me down?" box.)
< 1272999888 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That is quite annoying, yes.
< 1272999898 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there's a way to turn that off, though.
< 1272999916 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something like "Yes, this is a *workstation* not a server. Fuck off."
< 1272999924 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Typically I'd guess a magic register key value somewhere.
< 1272999935 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah...
< 1272999940 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't there a game at lost.edu or something? How'd they get a .edu?
< 1272999966 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybr I'm hallucinating
< 1273000036 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: This is all a hallucination.
< 1273000038 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Internet does not exist.
< 1273000041 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now go to bed.
< 1273000102 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, a better nick might be Sgeoid
< 1273000111 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgendroid.
< 1273000127 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeoid sounds like a shape.
< 1273000152 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or "Sgexus_One"?
< 1273000154 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you saying I'm not a shape?!?!
< 1273000181 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't the joke usually "What do you mean I'm not in shape? Round *is* a shape!"
< 1273000222 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't think of that, but I'm more of a line than a sphere.
< 1273000241 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, "in" ahape
< 1273000398 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :F(@#&#(&@#CK
< 1273000410 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I SCREWED MY GSOC APP THIS YEAR ;[
< 1273000610 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1273000620 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what'd you do?
< 1273001162 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom_H@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273001181 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, are there any decent free CASs?
< 1273001194 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've tried Maxima, but I was wondering.
< 1273001211 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maxima's pretty much it.
< 1273001245 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Mathematica is well out of my league...
< 1273001259 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, well.
< 1273001400 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi Phantom_Hoover. We were worried about you. What's the deal with the edit on the wiki?
< 1273001417 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was feeling weird last night. I'm OK now.
< 1273001441 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Glad to hear you're ok
< 1273001483 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BtW, did oerjan and alise get that Fibonacci bijection working?
< 1273001508 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm... not sure
< 1273001649 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273001658 0 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@137.125.180.197 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273001709 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Based on my understanding of the algorithm, I can't work out what the binary number "1111" goes to. "111" is {1, 1}, I think.
< 1273001823 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and the Ubuntu community's help for my graphics drivers crashing my computer is an unequivocal "You're screwed until the update."
< 1273001869 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This was after spending twenty minutes posting my complaint on the IRC channel every five minutes until I got a response. alise was right, a bag of weasels is far superior.
< 1273002019 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#ubuntu can be pretty awful
< 1273002039 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes I idle there around a new release, to increase the average quality of help (I'm not very good at helping, but the average is worse)
< 1273002046 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I didn't this time because I haven't upgraded yet
< 1273002083 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a small mercy that the particularly computer-illiterate users don't know how to use IRC.
< 1273002279 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, did they kick the lucid out of the door?
< 1273002336 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1273002374 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am tempted to say "ilmassa on suuren urheilujuhlan tuntua!", but will not, since I couldn't translate that well enough anyway.
< 1273002432 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: "About NetHack: by night, if they saw him stoop; and even to raise his goats from the man in the use of black magic. as a hunter with..."
< 1273002447 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems a bit cut off
< 1273002459 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank Twitter for that.
< 1273002467 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Twitter: My thanks
< 1273002487 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just suffix ... if it seems to go past the 140 character limit; didn't tweak the stopping probability at all.
< 1273002575 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I also somehow was amused a bit by a recent poem: "maa on viileĂ¤ kuin myrkkykaatopaikka / solmu hapertuu yĂ¶ksi / tylsyys osaa juoda myrkkyĂ¤ meissĂ¤".
< 1273002605 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1273002606 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you have runogen on Twitter as well?
< 1273002633 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, http://twitter.com/runogen (what an inspired account name).
< 1273002649 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There exist an english port of runogen, but for some reason it's not at all as funny.
< 1273002665 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worse corpus?
< 1273002678 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Smaller, I think. Only one wordset, no... stranger ones.
< 1273002763 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some reason ~no-one seems to be following either one; runogen's got 2 followers and fungot has 6.
< 1273002764 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: you shouldn't need the traceback since you should be able to run a gambit benchmark from the repl, but not your vote). you need to
< 1273003018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back
< 1273003031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nooga> AnMaster: maybe he was using Apple's Time Machine [tm] <-- augh
< 1273003111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :opencores has a horrible faq page btw. It is somewhat surprising that it works even without javascript..
< 1273003118 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(see http://opencores.org/opencores,faq)
< 1273003141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(try clicking those links, in fact, you will notice the issue before you click)
< 1273003157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is neurotic to navigate
< 1273003704 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@150.140.229.33 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273003712 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1273003718 0 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273003731 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: i did IM filesystem for Plan 9
< 1273003736 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least tried
< 1273003750 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: What did you screw up?
< 1273003755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, IM?
< 1273003762 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :proposal ;D
< 1273003771 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instant Messaging
< 1273003773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch
< 1273003781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you meant what I thought you meant. :/
< 1273003795 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh come on, this was even in their ideas
< 1273003813 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my view was a little bit modified, though
< 1273003830 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1273003834 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: I take that this is mapping IM to the filesystem, rather than creating a filesystem stored over IM
< 1273003849 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you're right
< 1273003858 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boring
< 1273003861 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's an IRCfs for Plan 9
< 1273003880 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Plan 9 you write filesystems instead of libs
< 1273003885 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How did you screw it up?
< 1273003906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, which im protocol? jabber?
< 1273003918 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because filesystems provide consistent interface for every stupid shell script or C prog or something else
< 1273003931 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yup
< 1273003944 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but XMPP is tough
< 1273003953 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, looking around there seems to be better open source tools for verilog than for vhdl, at least there seems to be some open source synthesis tools for verilog
< 1273003959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't yet found any for vhdl
< 1273003971 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: i guess it was not as detailed as it should be
< 1273004001 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1273004392 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, now WIMACS has a modem
< 1273004469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, ?
< 1273004525 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WIMACS is out (mine/friend's) computer built from scratch
< 1273004558 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with 8088 processor, homebuilt motherboard and homebuilt modem as an I/O device
< 1273004593 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm trying to write small OS for it and then you will be able to dial WIMACS using modem and talk with it on tty
< 1273004681 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :our*
< 1273004811 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it could even serve a BBS
< 1273004819 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not bad.
< 1273004857 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could probably port CP/M to it.
< 1273004862 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure
< 1273004879 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even DOS
< 1273004895 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i want to write my own
< 1273004896 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOS is very, very, very heavily BIOS-based.
< 1273004898 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just for fun
< 1273004903 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CP/M is more portable.
< 1273004909 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's right
< 1273004920 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but running DOS is possible
< 1273004925 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically all that's needed is an 8080, a terminal, and 16k of RAM.
< 1273004947 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possible, but you'd not run anything that used BIOS routines.
< 1273004956 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you wrote an IBM BIOS emulator.
< 1273004956 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why CP/M is awesome
< 1273004957 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shudder*
< 1273004973 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah.
< 1273005197 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :burp
< 1273005754 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273005791 0 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@137.125.187.135 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273005803 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Phantom_Hoover> BtW, did oerjan and alise get that Fibonacci bijection working?
< 1273005818 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't code it up, and i didn't hear alise said e did, either
< 1273005846 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you're alive! (but absent)
< 1273005861 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Phantom_Hoover> Based on my understanding of the algorithm, I can't work out what the binary number "1111" goes to. "111" is {1, 1}, I think.
< 1273005875 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: alise added a link to the wiki
< 1273005883 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm thinking about Forth-like language for WIMACS
< 1273005884 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which may or may not be to a Fibonacci bijection
< 1273005918 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: today?  because e added the 2^u*(2*v+1)-1 version previously.
< 1273005930 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should probably check when he gets that far
< 1273005946 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I noticed today, although it may have happened earlier
< 1273005963 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: (for the logs) naively, 1111 corresponds to nothing, that's precisely why i included the divMod x 2 modification
< 1273005971 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you actually looked at my code
< 1273006043 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically if it starts with an even no. of 1's, remove one before encoding into a list.  afterwards, double the list head, then add 1 iff a 1 was removed.
< 1273006063 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom_H@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273006067 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1273006071 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1273006103 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:42  oerjan> <Phantom_Hoover> BtW, did oerjan and alise get that Fibonacci bijection working?
< 1273006106 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:43  oerjan> i didn't code it up, and i didn't hear alise said e did, either
< 1273006109 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:43  oerjan> also, you're alive! (but absent)
< 1273006111 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:43  oerjan> <Phantom_Hoover> Based on my understanding of the algorithm, I can't work out what the binary number "1111" goes to. "111" is {1, 1}, I think.
< 1273006122 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :221:45  oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: (for the logs) naively, 1111 corresponds to nothing, that's precisely why i included the divMod x 2 modification
< 1273006124 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yeah, I'm reading the logs.
< 1273006126 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:45  oerjan> if you actually looked at my code
< 1273006127 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I missed that.
< 1273006128 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:46  oerjan> basically if it starts with an even no. of 1's, remove one before encoding into a list.  afterwards, double the list head, then add 1 iff a 1 was removed.
< 1273006161 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an obvious way to biject BF and the naturals is to start with any naive encoding, then map the lowest-numbered valid BF program to 1, the second-lowest to 2, the third-lowest to 3, etc
< 1273006168 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although that could be tricky to implement
< 1273006184 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that was discussed.
< 1273006206 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax *claimed* to have an algorithm that made it practical, but he never gave it.
< 1273006237 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: we _are_ going for a bit of efficiency here.  after all we are still modifying the encoding because the 2^u*(2*v+1)-1 encoding, while perfectly correct afawk, blew up the numbers too much.
< 1273006276 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Logically, it must have encoded some *huge* programs as small numbers, though.
< 1273006317 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not necessarily
< 1273006321 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1273006341 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: How?
< 1273006354 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just had to encode some huge programs a _little_ smaller than you'd think, so the small programs could fit there instead.
< 1273006368 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well some of the small programs
< 1273006407 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but basically i think it encoded long programs without loops fairly small
< 1273006421 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guys, ive got a challenge for you. :D
< 1273006424 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm...
< 1273006438 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its related to formal grammars tho, so if you dont want to accept the challenge, i understand.
< 1273006456 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it was the cars in the lists that blew up, and if they were just single commands rather than loops they couldn't blow up _that_ much.
< 1273006462 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273006479 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: The current bijection gives huge numbers for long programs without loops, though I don't recall if I tried it with the old one.
< 1273006491 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273006499 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the challenge is as follows
< 1273006501 0 :AndChat|!~AndChat@137.125.187.135 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273006532 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :define a class of grammars that extends the context free grammars (or some formulation thereof) in the following way:
< 1273006539 0 :AndChat|!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273006543 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yeah the triangular encoding and the bit interleaving one both have problems when creating a tuple of one small and one large number, as a long consed program would eventually tend to do
< 1273006574 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie and i found out those two are actually pretty equivalent
< 1273006591 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just about 2 bits difference at most
< 1273006594 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So distributing the conses would actually make a big difference?
< 1273006600 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the extended version of the grammar allows the following property: for each grammar, there is some non-terminal symbol, call it W, that can behave in the following fashion:
< 1273006640 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yes.  although the fibonacci version should be better because the size of the encode list is approximately proportional to the total sum of bits
< 1273006644 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either all instances of the symbol are at whatever places they are at in the sentence, one and only one instance is at the front of the sentence, or ALL instances are at the front of the sentence
< 1273006726 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: however after i pointed out that the challenge is to find an encoding where the bit size of an encoded tuple is approximately the sum of the bitsizes of the elements, fizzie suggested i solve _that_.  it would be even better than the fibonacci encoding, i think.
< 1273006730 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and those are the only three options
< 1273006772 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any takers :x
< 1273006800 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it would, i think, remove the need to distribute tuples, you could use a consed list efficiently enough
< 1273006838 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: not at present, busy with a different problem as you can see
< 1273006847 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1273006922 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i've thought about it a bit since this morning, and at least one way is just a counting problem
< 1273006963 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "write out combinations of '-+<>,.[]' and eliminate invalids" way?
< 1273006985 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: er no, i've never seriously considered that
< 1273007010 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm talking about a tuple encoding that approximately sums bitsizes to keep balance automatically
< 1273007027 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Write us a generating function for the valid BF programs in some naive encoding. :p
< 1273007033 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose fax was wrong about the efficient way for his algorith?
< 1273007059 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i don't say that, he was mentioning stirling numbers so there probably _is_ a way
< 1273007068 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Then solve the coefficients out of it.)
< 1273007080 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that even i don't feel like wrapping my brain around that
< 1273007088 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION Googles
< 1273007143 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: but i _like_ the method we already have of building things out of lists or tuples, it just needs a more balanced tuple or list
< 1273007233 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now to encode [1..] x [1..] with balanced bits - i think dropping 0 is more elegant because:
< 1273007263 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if 0 is dropped, there is exactly 1 number with 1 bit, 2 numbers with 2 bits, 4 numbers with 3 bits etc.
< 1273007285 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now then how many tuples are there with sum of bitsizes n?
< 1273007310 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be 1+(n-1), 2+(n-2), ..., (n-1)+1.
< 1273007370 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2^0 * 2^(n-2) + 2^1 * 2^(n-3) + ... + 2^(n-2) * 2^0
< 1273007382 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :conveniently all terms are equal :)
< 1273007411 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there are (n-1)*2^(n-2) tuples with total bitsize sum n
< 1273007440 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n >= 2
< 1273007556 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1*1 + 2*2 + 3*4 + 4*8 + 5*16 + ...
< 1273007618 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the obvious way of getting balanced bits is to order the tuples by total bitsize and take their position in the order
< 1273007704 0 :tombom_!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273007720 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which requires counting all the tuples with smaller bitsize, then adding the number of tuples with same total but less bitsize in the first element, then adding x*2^n + y
< 1273007732 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all eminently doable, at least in the forward direction
< 1273007763 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er hm x*2^(n-1) + y
< 1273007778 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming (m,n) are the bitsizes of (x,y) respectively
< 1273007802 0 :tombom__!tombom@82.27.18.205 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273007855 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the middle term there we already essentially have, it's (m-1)*2^(m+n-2)
< 1273007891 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1273007896 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it remains to get the partial sums of that series 1*1 + 2*2 + 3*4 + 4*8 + 5*16 + ...
< 1273007966 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell take 10 $ scanl1 (+) [(n-1)*2^(n-2) | n <- [2..]]
< 1273007968 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[1,5,17,49,129,321,769,1793,4097,9217]
< 1273008008 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell programs must give horrendously complex machine code.
< 1273008018 0 :tombom_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1273008049 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the evil mangler of ghc is legendary
< 1273008082 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's going away when they deprecate the compilation via C option
< 1273008105 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's a perl program directly modifying gcc-outputted assembly, iirc)
< 1273008128 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is still trying to stop my inner 4-year-old wanting Mathematica
< 1273008141 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OEIS says that sequence is (n-1)*2^n + 1
< 1273008191 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell [(n-1)*2^n + 1 | n <- [0..10]]
< 1273008193 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[0,1,5,17,49,129,321,769,1793,4097,9217]
< 1273008223 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell putStrLn "Hello, world!"
< 1273008224 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, world!
< 1273008235 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok we wanted the 1 to start at n=2
< 1273008248 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shouldn't it be outputting IO ()?
< 1273008260 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell [(n-2)*2^(n-1) + 1 | n <- [2..10]]
< 1273008262 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[1,5,17,49,129,321,769,1793,4097]
< 1273008298 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: that's an optional option for ghc i think
< 1273008317 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An optional option...
< 1273008327 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN
< 1273008355 0 :Sgeo|web!~897d6958@gateway/web/freenode/x-ezhgxtecyyyglfcr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273008383 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm actually n=2 should give 0 since then there are no strictly smaller tuples
< 1273008389 0 :Sgeo|web!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have the opportunity to post a [Bash] programming contest for my UNIX class
< 1273008400 0 :Sgeo|web!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm considering having them implement a subset of Brainfuck
< 1273008403 0 :Sgeo|web!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any better ideas?
< 1273008418 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A _subset_?
< 1273008428 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell [(n-3)*2^(n-2) + 1 | n <- [2..10]]
< 1273008429 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_O?
< 1273008430 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[0,1,5,17,49,129,321,769,1793]
< 1273008431 0 :Sgeo|web!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think having them implement [] might be a bit difficult
< 1273008437 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah
< 1273008438 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any programmer worth their salt can implement the whole thing easily.
< 1273008452 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!show sadbf
< 1273008452 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadol :M$0 :d:i,45000@>i-01(2]M0:i-i1:S$0:C;3:l#C-01:p:m0@<pl(2?=#Cp"1+:#Mm%+#Mm1,3255?=#Cp"1-:#Mm?<-#Mm10,3254-#Mm1?=#Cp"1>:m%+m1d?=#Cp"1<:m?<-m10-s1-m1?=#Cp"1.!'2#Mm?=#Cp"1,:#Mm'1;0?=#Cp"1[]S-p1?=#Cp"1]?=#Mm00:p[S0:p+p1
< 1273008455 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see? easy
< 1273008458 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and complete
< 1273008474 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is sadbf?
< 1273008486 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck interp in sadol
< 1273008562 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: Make them implement [] for extra credit?
< 1273008563 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :encode (x,y) = (m+n-3)*2^(m+n-2)+1 + (m-1)*2^(m+n-2) + x*2^(n-1) + y where m = bitSize x; n = bitSize y
< 1273008596 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: are you a teacher or something?
< 1273008625 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :defining bitSize remains
< 1273008635 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait darn
< 1273008641 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :log_2 ceilinged?
< 1273008647 0 :Sgeo|web!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: I won the programming contest
< 1273008662 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x and y need to have the upper bit removed
< 1273008669 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1273008672 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm now that's easy
< 1273008678 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't like teachers
< 1273008692 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, be fair to them.
< 1273008696 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather ignorant morons... mainly
< 1273008713 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most people learning programming aren't interested, at least AFAIK.
< 1273008736 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: logarithms only defined for floating point, which cannot safely convert from Integers
< 1273008740 0 :Sgeo|web!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you do ASCII code <-> character in Bash?
< 1273008754 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one guy from OS architecture classes failed me because my experimental kernel was not enough
< 1273008787 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he wanted me to make a powerpoint presentation about ACLs and implement an ACL simulator in C#
< 1273008788 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: I don't know.
< 1273008794 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how sick is that
< 1273008834 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: Give them a two-way converter and tell them to use that.
< 1273008846 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: ... He wanted an ACL implementation, not a *freaking OS*.
< 1273008848 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :encode (x,y) = (m+n-3)*2^(m+n-2)+1 + (m-2)*2^(m+n-2) + (x-1)*2^(n-1) + y where m = bitSize x; n = bitSize y
< 1273008848 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bash isn't really a good language for BF.
< 1273008852 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Failure.
< 1273008866 0 :Sgeo|web!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two way converter? Bleh
< 1273008872 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the removal of the top bits fit with some other terms
< 1273008900 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm some of that still can be combined
< 1273008904 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: but the guy couldn't even understand my design
< 1273008928 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :encode (x,y) = (2*m+n-5)*2^(m+n-2)+ 1 + (x-1)*2^(n-1) + y where m = bitSize x; n = bitSize y
< 1273008952 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus designing and implementing even minimal kernel requires more knowledge than writing a stupid essay about stupid, simple ACLs
< 1273008961 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: If your teacher tells you to do such-and-such, doing something very clever that *isn't* such-and-such does not demonstrate knowledge of such-and-such.
< 1273008972 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And how many people was your teacher teaching?
< 1273008982 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: OS architecture class. The class is about the architecture of an OS.
< 1273008993 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True.
< 1273009005 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And he was being graded on a "general project", I'm pretty sure.
< 1273009018 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But did he implement whatever an ACL is while writing his kernel?
< 1273009024 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit
< 1273009026 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hey
< 1273009041 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wrote a regular expression compiler for Formal Languages class
< 1273009058 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frankly, a kernel for a project in an OS design class is pretty much what I'd expect. Not a teeny tiny ACL implementation in C#.
< 1273009062 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of going to lectures and laboratories
< 1273009089 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it was a hit
< 1273009100 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: Use printf.
< 1273009104 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As a converter.
< 1273009107 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: You can convert from octal numbers to characters with "echo -e". And from decimal to octal with printf.
< 1273009133 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "printf" command's %c prints the first character of the provided argument; it does not convert a number to character.
< 1273009148 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Echo -e doesn't on my system.
< 1273009168 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"echo -e \0nnn", where nnn is an octal number.
< 1273009169 0 :Sgeo|web!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I just write the converter in Python?
< 1273009191 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: Well, if you want to be a quitter....
< 1273009191 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes but don't.
< 1273009207 0 :Sgeo|web!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why shouldn't I?
< 1273009215 0 :Sgeo|web!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to supply the class with ord2chr and chr2ord
< 1273009238 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Moar Japanese, or video games?
< 1273009245 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: This BF-Nat bijection has demonstrated pretty well that we aren't very practically-minded.
< 1273009250 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a very hard decision.
< 1273009251 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hope that my WIMACS would give me at least several credits
< 1273009286 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Ilari> So variable spacing in interleaving X_1 and X_2 saves much more (Easily 100Mb with Lost Kingdom) than using hyperpyramidals instead of simple bit interleaving (hardly even 1Mb).
< 1273009286 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As for "character to octal", od's usually available. That should be enough.
< 1273009333 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i thought that compressing brainfuck is a closed topic
< 1273009341 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: basically hyperpyramidals and bit interleaving are almost equal, both have encoded size dependent mostly on the maximal element
< 1273009357 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: What do you think oerjan's talking about?
< 1273009364 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck it. Moar Japanese.
< 1273009413 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because x1+x2+...+xn is between max(x1,...,xn) and n*max(x1,...,xn) which only give + log_2 n bit variation
< 1273009443 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: Does Bash even have decent arrays?
< 1273009454 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: read my statement again ;]
< 1273009455 0 :Sgeo|web!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: no clue
< 1273009464 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273009491 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: this isn't compressing really, we aren't trying to remove unnecessary bits or squeeze commonly repetitive parts...
< 1273009516 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yeah, he said compressing.
< 1273009545 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bash has both indexed and associative arrays, though the "decentness" is debatable.
< 1273009578 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing that would probably make the whole mess of keeping bijectivity too horribly complicated
< 1273009643 0 :Sgeo|web!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye all
< 1273009656 0 :Sgeo|web!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Page closed
< 1273010100 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Aren't they all associative?
< 1273010176 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: At least my manpage says they behave differently; you get explicitly indexed arrays with declare -a and associative -A; I'm not sure what you end up with if you just do the [] subscripting.
< 1273010188 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay
< 1273010199 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Indexed arrays are referenced using integers (including arithmetic expressions)  and are zero-based; associative arrays are referenced using arbitrary strings."
< 1273010214 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Ilari> So variable spacing in interleaving X_1 and X_2 saves much more (Easily 100Mb with Lost Kingdom) than using hyperpyramidals instead of simple bit interleaving (hardly even 1Mb).
< 1273010218 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh
< 1273010228 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(forgot to ^C)
< 1273010530 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1273010634 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom_H@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273010919 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Python give a way to include multiple modules in one file?
< 1273011077 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1:[2],10:[4],11:[1],100:[6],101:[8],110:[3],111:[2,1],1000:[10]
< 1273011100 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that fibonacci encoding ordering is a bit weird :)
< 1273011121 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are those binary?
< 1273011133 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before the :'s yes
< 1273011144 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And after?
< 1273011154 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lists of numbers >= 1
< 1273011163 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, duh.
< 1273011213 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've missed the idea
< 1273011228 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i don't even know how is this supposed to work
< 1273011248 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically you take a number >= 1 as binary
< 1273011293 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it relies on the property that the base-Fibonacci representation of a number uses only the digits 0 and 1 and never contains the sequence 11.
< 1273011302 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you split it up at instances of 11
< 1273011303 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1273011308 0 :Rugxulo!~rugxulo@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273011316 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is logreading again
< 1273011331 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> QuickBasic doesn't have all that many disadvantages for DOS.
< 1273011338 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has joined the room
< 1273011340 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<AnMaster> alise, and 640 kB is enough for everyone?
< 1273011354 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I think you'd use EMS or XMS via INTERRUPT() or CALL ABSOLUTE
< 1273011356 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is talking about himself
< 1273011373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, XD
< 1273011389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, how much ram does that allow?
< 1273011406 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on what API version, memory manager, etc.
< 1273011406 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone should make SlowBasic
< 1273011410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, and doesn't EMS and XMS mean you can't address it "straight" but need to use some nasty tricks
< 1273011415 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XMSv3 should allow 2-4 GB
< 1273011416 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION quit (Quit)
< 1273011418 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the first 1 in a 11 is removed.  if there is more than 2 1's in a row, start from the back.
< 1273011420 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like basically having a "window" into high memory
< 1273011423 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*are
< 1273011425 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, nice one
< 1273011439 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EMS is emulated XMS these days
< 1273011440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, except it looks nothing like the real thing here
< 1273011449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, both are DEAD these days
< 1273011452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_-
< 1273011454 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I realised that when logreading.
< 1273011471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well nor does it even look similar in my irc client I meant
< 1273011474 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster:    http://johnson.tmfc.net/dos/drivers.html
< 1273011496 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: FreeDOS is still maintained.
< 1273011521 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but how is it related to bf?
< 1273011522 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(barely, but yes)
< 1273011526 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this leaves a problem if 11 remains at the start, which is hacked around by modifying the first number x into 2x or 2x+1, dependingly
< 1273011528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yes and so is linux 2.2
< 1273011532 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOS is an OS that is very, very hard to kill.
< 1273011539 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that hard
< 1273011546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, also. doesn't both of these imply that you use a window into high memory or something
< 1273011550 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AMD64 (no V86), Vista and 7 (no gfx, bugs)
< 1273011556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, that you can't see both at once
< 1273011557 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: This will take a while.
< 1273011566 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, err all*
< 1273011567 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: That AMD64 can still run DOS.
< 1273011567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not both
< 1273011568 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, kinda, yes
< 1273011571 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just not in long mode.
< 1273011578 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also there are emulators
< 1273011584 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: it's just a way to encode lists of naturals as a single natural, which is then used as a subroutine to collapse a bf program into a single natural number
< 1273011584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, so a pita to program for then?
< 1273011586 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOSEMU has to fully emulate 16-bit stuff in AMD64
< 1273011594 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, just a PITA for lazy programmers   ;-)
< 1273011597 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, there are quite good x86 emulators.
< 1273011601 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, DPMI is the preferred method
< 1273011602 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: AMD64 != long mode.
< 1273011610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what pikhq said
< 1273011610 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know
< 1273011617 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously, but you know what I meant
< 1273011618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, but no one needs vm86() ...
< 1273011629 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no one needs AMD64 either
< 1273011632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and dosemu and dosbox are both fast enough
< 1273011634 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it exists ...
< 1273011638 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lies
< 1273011642 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOSBox is slow slow slow!!!
< 1273011647 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and only emulates a 486 !!!
< 1273011663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, well then, no one would make new dos apps needing a modern computer
< 1273011666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you use it for old games
< 1273011669 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, DPMI is how you directly access memory in 32-bit
< 1273011670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where it is fast enough
< 1273011683 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Dude, it's effectively emulating *several hundred MHz* 486.
< 1273011691 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even under DOSEMU x86-64, DJGPP stuff runs "native speed" (their claim, not mine)
< 1273011692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, I need 64-bit, I often use enough ram at once for that
< 1273011700 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, 100 Mhz 486 DX2
< 1273011702 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is to say, *dozens of times faster than any 486 ever dreamed of running*.
< 1273011702 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: the trick is to do this in such a way that all legal bf programs get a unique number, and no numbers are skipped
< 1273011710 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you need 1+ Ghz processor even for that speed !!!
< 1273011711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, of course I don't need x86 as such
< 1273011721 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Uh, WTF?
< 1273011726 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, I would be perfectly happy with PowerPC
< 1273011731 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(legal wrt bracketing.  comments are ignored.)
< 1273011731 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Dear God man, *Bochs* is faster than that.
< 1273011743 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: sounds awesome
< 1273011743 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, trust me, DOSBox will not run faster than a 486
< 1273011748 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a real 586, and it's much faster
< 1273011761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, a 586 wouldn't run dos any more
< 1273011771 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes it would.
< 1273011771 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? sure it would
< 1273011777 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do it all the time   ;-)
< 1273011777 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A 586 is called a "Pentium".
< 1273011780 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, didn't windows exist by then
< 1273011782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, indeed
< 1273011788 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows existed for 8088, even
< 1273011789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know what a i586 is
< 1273011798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, well okay, but I mean "common"
< 1273011802 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Until Windows XP, consumer Windows was a DOS program.
< 1273011807 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XP needs at least a Pentium 1 (no MMX)
< 1273011815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I know, but you didn't see much of that in windows 98
< 1273011819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even in 95
< 1273011823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in 3.x sure you did
< 1273011823 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, that's generalizing a bit much, but semi-true
< 1273011825 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure you did.
< 1273011831 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every time you ran a 3.x program.
< 1273011840 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or an old DOS program.
< 1273011851 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which was pretty darned common until, oh, 2000 or so.
< 1273011853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, which was basically never, plus you couldn't tell it really if it was 3.x apart from a sucky gui
< 1273011863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I used 95 and 98
< 1273011869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and well on 95 it still happened
< 1273011870 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Clearly you didn't.
< 1273011873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on 98, basically never
< 1273011902 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every time it broke enough, you needed to get out the edit.com
< 1273011923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, don't think win98 broke like that for me ever
< 1273011929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, blue screens yes
< 1273011944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, so okay you saw scandisk at boot sometimes, I admit that
< 1273011976 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster		Rugxulo, I need 64-bit, I often use enough ram at once for that
< 1273011995 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody ever used to need > 4 GB of RAM, so why they do now?
< 1273012006 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we put a man on the moon with much much much less than that   ;-)
< 1273012041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAARGH why did firefox decide to open that pdf in *krita*
< 1273012044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes no sense
< 1273012045 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Anyways. DOSbox *defaults* to 100 MHz. The clock speed it runs at is configurable.
< 1273012068 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno why, but it does.
< 1273012121 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not cycle exact, and cpus differ, different apps need different speeds, etc.
< 1273012128 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup.
< 1273012137 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, plus there are different cores for different things (supposed to guess at runtime, doesn't always work)
< 1273012142 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though most DOS apps *really* shouldn't be relying on a specific clock speed.
< 1273012154 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most don't, but some old ones did
< 1273012160 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least, anything that ran on anything newer than the original XT shouldn't.
< 1273012207 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOSBox virtualizes a lot of stuff (VGA, soundcards, etc.), otherwise people would just prefer VirtualBox (faster but much less DOS-friendly)
< 1273012220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what API did DOS provide and how was it called?
< 1273012226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interrupts?
< 1273012228 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :provide for what, timing?
< 1273012237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, in general, how did you do a syscall under DOS
< 1273012240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what I'm asking
< 1273012265 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Interrupts.
< 1273012266 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a la "int 80h" ?? DOS proper mostly used "int 21h" (but also others, 2Fh, and BIOS, 10h)
< 1273012278 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/used/was called via/
< 1273012303 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would happen if I wrote a BIOS program in Linux and ran it?
< 1273012307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, yes like syscall/sysret (or int 80h, but linux no longer uses that if there are better alternatives, and that change was made back during 2.5.x)
< 1273012319 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I think Linux V86 mode supports such
< 1273012321 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(maybe)
< 1273012342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm what did windows do for it? before syscall/sysret I mean
< 1273012345 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster:  but there are people who code for int 80h (mostly assembly dudes)
< 1273012348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :windows nt 4 and so on
< 1273012368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, why do they code for a legacy platform though?
< 1273012370 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did Windows do internally or end users?
< 1273012386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, I mean, what did windows do to call it's kernel
< 1273012395 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster:    "legacy" is 90% of the world!
< 1273012396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some interrupt? call gates (*shudder*)?
< 1273012404 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You just call the NTDLL functions, you don't do manual syscalls there. (I'm sure it's *possible*. but...)
< 1273012411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and what do they do?
< 1273012414 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Depends on which Windows.
< 1273012420 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, nowdays presumably syscall/sysret
< 1273012423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I specified that above
< 1273012427 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Must sleep.
< 1273012431 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah.
< 1273012431 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1273012437 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NTDLL.
< 1273012438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, "nt before syscall/sysret days"
< 1273012439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said
< 1273012446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not exact phrase
< 1273012450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the same meaning
< 1273012458 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Why should you care what they do? My guess would be the interrupt mechanism, that's I guess the common way.
< 1273012471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes but which interrupt
< 1273012520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and: <Rugxulo> AnMaster:    "legacy" is 90% of the world! <-- not really, most new linux installs on 64-bit capable hardware (which is almost all new x86 hardware, possibly excluding atom, not sure about that...) tend to be x86_64
< 1273012520 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really documented internals (at least not by MS), but I think "int 2Eh" was their own revectored / proprietary one
< 1273012532 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "System calls in Windows NT are initiated by executing an "int 2e" instruction."
< 1273012533 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Atom is 64-bit now, yes
< 1273012534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least those I have seen
< 1273012537 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is VIA
< 1273012543 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: But really, no-one invokes those manually, so why *should* you care?
< 1273012547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, yes, all new hardware is
< 1273012551 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't because MS didn't document it
< 1273012558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, and by god, x86_64 is *way* better
< 1273012563 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, so what? just because it's new doesn't make it perfect
< 1273012564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still bad yes
< 1273012572 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Windows NT supports 3 different system call schemes by default.
< 1273012578 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better for coders who already know how to use older stuff?
< 1273012579 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :barely
< 1273012580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, yes it is less register starved, no it doesn't have enough registers
< 1273012581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, heh
< 1273012593 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't matter how many registers, push/pop is a simple workaround
< 1273012595 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Win32 subsystem's, the OS/2 subsystem's, and the POSIX subsystem's.
< 1273012597 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, slower
< 1273012599 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, more registers don't mean faster speed
< 1273012607 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(implementations for the POSIX subsystem are not included by default)
< 1273012611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, and compiler does a better job at a less register starved architecture
< 1273012617 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS/2 and POSIX subsystems are dead and removed in modern Windows
< 1273012625 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compilers are dumb dumb dumb
< 1273012633 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*plonk*
< 1273012634 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: The OS/2 subsystem is unmaintained but very much still around.
< 1273012642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, oh? interesting
< 1273012649 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the POSIX subsystem is not merely around but actively developed.
< 1273012650 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, not that I know of, I think OS/2 1.x apps last worked only in Win2k
< 1273012658 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interix? SFU?
< 1273012658 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still work.
< 1273012665 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interix is still developed.
< 1273012671 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that is the POSIX subsystem.
< 1273012672 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the same, and doesn't come by default, only available for Enterprise, etc.
< 1273012689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, I presume I can get it by MSDNAA
< 1273012695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too lazy to check
< 1273012695 0 :tombom__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1273012698 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a free download.
< 1273012700 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, I just mean most compilers aren't exactly perfect by a long shot
< 1273012706 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: null
< 1273012711 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For XP, Vista, Server 2003, Server 2008, or 7.
< 1273012713 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not like they magically get 1000x better just by having a few extra registers
< 1273012732 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Server" != "Home Premium"
< 1273012746 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Server 2003" is a *Windows version*.
< 1273012756 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but not for home users (e.g. DPMI broken)
< 1273012761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, sure, gcc isn't very good. But 1) portable (compared to asm) 2) much less programmer time, hardware is cheaper than programmer time often nowdays 3) good enough most of the time
< 1273012768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a lot easier to debug for and so on
< 1273012770 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still available for the *consumer versions of OSes* as well.
< 1273012776 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asm can be portable, see FASM itself (runs on like 10 OSes)
< 1273012781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, and not 1000x, that is unrealistic
< 1273012787 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :less programmer time depends on the programmer   ;-)
< 1273012795 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also. Yeah, x86 gains a *lot* from the extra registers.
< 1273012799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, I'm talking about 150% increase for some tasks, 10-20% for other
< 1273012800 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86_64 *doubles* the registers.
< 1273012800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it varies
< 1273012803 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Doubles*.
< 1273012805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1273012808 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, not everything speeds up with x86-64
< 1273012822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc I saw 300% increase for MPEG decoding on x86-64
< 1273012826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or some such
< 1273012832 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably using SSE2
< 1273012836 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is always available
< 1273012843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, it was using SSE2 on 32-bit version too
< 1273012844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that test
< 1273012847 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And anything doing 64-bit arithmetic (like MPEG encoding and decoding) increases by *absurd* amounts.
< 1273012857 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: It also doubles the number of SSE2 registers...
< 1273012872 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously you guys haven't tested my lame-o hack of BEFI.COM, very very small changes can significantly alter the speed
< 1273012877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I don't understand why we don't have a mode with 32-bit pointers, 64-bit GP registers, and so on
< 1273012881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems saner
< 1273012890 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Too much work.
< 1273012891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :64-bit pointers only for apps that need it
< 1273012902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, it would avoid the larger pointer size problem
< 1273012902 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster:   people are lazy, that's why
< 1273012910 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That means another full complement of dynamic libraries.
< 1273012917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, and we would always have 64-bit registers
< 1273012930 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like V86++ to me    ;-)
< 1273012932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, no it means two, since we drop the legacy 32-bit GP register variant on this arch
< 1273012948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have two anyway nowdays
< 1273012960 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... If you're dropping x86_32, then you might as well just *nuke x86 as a whole*.
< 1273012961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this would be a new arch
< 1273012961 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Are you sure you can get it officially supported for the consumer versions of current Windowsen? SFU 3.5, which is downloadable from Microsoft, officially supports up to Server 2003 / XP; for Vista and 7, you'd need the "Subsystem for UNIX-based applications" (SUA), which as far as I know isn't available as a standalone thing, only in the Enterprise and Ultimate editions.
< 1273012965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yes
< 1273012970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, this wouldn't be x86 at all
< 1273012980 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Could be that I just haven't found the SUA download, though.)
< 1273012986 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I've used it.
< 1273012992 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MS is annoying with nickel-and-diming everything
< 1273012995 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's even free to redistribute.
< 1273013002 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gentoo/Win32 has it on the CD.
< 1273013003 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XP Mode won't work on 7 except non-Home versions, etc.
< 1273013018 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah, just use Cygwin    ;-)
< 1273013025 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. Sorry. Gentoo/Windows.
< 1273013025 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if Cygwin64 exists
< 1273013045 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Interix is quite a bit faster than Cygwin.
< 1273013056 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't need to use hacks like userspace fork.
< 1273013086 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, it would be some (probably RISC) platform. It would have 32-bit and 64-bit pointer mode for userland. Always 64-bit for kernel. It would have lots of GPR, (64? 128?) which would always be 64-bits wide, possibly we could have a few 128-bit GP registers as well, probably fewer for cost reasons). It would have some 256 bits wide SIMD registers. Or maybe 512?
< 1273013097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, and some floating point, could be part of SIMD, not sure
< 1273013125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus an assorted set of special registers of course, like every other arch
< 1273013144 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, sounds like utopia yet?
< 1273013157 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lbw.sourceforge.net/     (uses Interix, supposedly very buggy though)
< 1273013162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> Gentoo/Win32 has it on the CD. <-- and isn't that dead? If you mean the cygwin one?
< 1273013177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, there is internix debian
< 1273013178 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :256 bit wide SIMD = AVX, no?
< 1273013181 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: By "it", do you mean the older SFU 3.5 working also on Vista and 7 unsupportedly, or the SUA? Because all I can really find from Microsoft's downloads is the SUA utilities and SDK, which requires Vista/7 Enterprise/Ultimate, because the actual subsystem part is only included in those. (I guess it might be redistributable and available because of that, but not directly from MS.)
< 1273013186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, this is not x86
< 1273013187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1273013455 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Huh. Sure enough.
< 1273013470 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> 03:00:06 <Rugxulo> dumb question, but why not use FreeBASIC instead?
< 1273013470 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> No peeking 'n poking madness; no nostalgia; no good-ole-days-feeling.
< 1273013472 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, how is it with Hurd these days? Ready to replace the temporary Linux solution yet?
< 1273013476 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fucking Microsoft.
< 1273013486 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeBASIC has a QB mode, and you can indeed peek/poke with DJGPP functions
< 1273013488 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hurd is basically abandoned.
< 1273013504 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I think somebody is (barely) working on it, just not sure how much
< 1273013512 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought I read some hint about it recently, but I can't remember
< 1273013524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, link to gentoo/windows?
< 1273013537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, the only thing I can find is something published on 1 april...
< 1273013553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the old dead gentoo/cygwin one
< 1273013592 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/gentoo-alt/prefix/index.xml
< 1273013621 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, BTW, does anybody in here besides me actively have a Win32 install?
< 1273013632 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking it should maybe be possible to write a Befunge93 interpreter in CMD
< 1273013636 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: I have *an* implementation of Win32.
< 1273013641 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which may or may not work with ReactOS)
< 1273013651 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(their shell shares some features)
< 1273013654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, and the cd with this thing for it on it?
< 1273013676 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://distfiles.gentoo.org/experimental/prefix/x86-interix/
< 1273013681 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote "get()" in CMD, seems to work, haven't gotten past that though
< 1273013687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, I have 64-bit windows xp in a virtualbox
< 1273013692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is all I have when it comes to windows
< 1273013692 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273013702 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: I have a silly Server 2003 install, though I'm not sure what you mean by "actively".
< 1273013779 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was basically looking for comments on whether anybody agreed that CMD should be enough to emulate Befunge93
< 1273013790 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like I said, I wrote get(), it seems to work, but I haven't gotten past that
< 1273013792 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it
< 1273013794 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, sure, why not.
< 1273013810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but who knows, it may be possible
< 1273013821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :befunge98, probably not
< 1273013848 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it supports "set /A expression", for example
< 1273013871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, what about the stack
< 1273013880 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :env. vars
< 1273013888 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set STACK=%STACK% 9
< 1273013894 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or similar
< 1273013905 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, how do you extract the top element from that then?
< 1273013944 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :May also specify substrings for an expansion.
< 1273013944 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    %PATH:~10,5%
< 1273013944 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would expand the PATH environment variable, and then use only the 5
< 1273013944 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :characters that begin at the 11th (offset 10) character of the expanded
< 1273013944 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :result.
< 1273013956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1273013971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, that is cmd.exe but not command.com right?
< 1273013983 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1273013987 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, and who knows where this is documented...
< 1273014001 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just typed "set /?" and "for /?"
< 1273014004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1273014009 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seemed to be enough for now   ;-)
< 1273014017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, that mentions the substring thingy?
< 1273014023 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1273014025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and that set /A
< 1273014027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does it do
< 1273014047 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The /A switch specifies that the string to the right of the equal sign
< 1273014047 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a numerical expression that is evaluated.  The expression evaluator
< 1273014047 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is pretty simple and supports the following operations, in decreasing
< 1273014047 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :order of precedence:
< 1273014047 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    ()                  - grouping
< 1273014047 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    ! ~ -               - unary operators
< 1273014048 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    * / %               - arithmetic operators
< 1273014048 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    + -                 - arithmetic operators
< 1273014049 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    << >>               - logical shift
< 1273014049 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    &                   - bitwise and
< 1273014050 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    ^                   - bitwise exclusive or
< 1273014050 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    |                   - bitwise or
< 1273014051 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    = *= /= %= += -=    - assignment
< 1273014051 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1273014052 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :      &= ^= |= <<= >>=
< 1273014053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop the spam
< 1273014063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a short summary is enough
< 1273014077 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted you to know what it supported (&, ^, |)
< 1273014091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :useless for befunge93 though
< 1273014105 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how so?
< 1273014113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't have bitwise operators
< 1273014130 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also for befunge98 (unless you use some fingerprint that provide bitwise operators)
< 1273014140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, also it doesn't do xnor :(
< 1273014142 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, well obviously Befunge doesn't ... but I'm just saying "set /a" should be enough for B93
< 1273014151 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of course, nothing does, unless it is a HDL)
< 1273014158 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: MSDN has cmd.exe documentation, I've used it a couple of times.
< 1273014172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I think I never looked further than windows help center
< 1273014176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before loosing interest
< 1273014277 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, you sure love 64-bit a lot    ;-)
< 1273014278 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: As for command.com limitations, failing all else you could keep the stack in a file, and use the find command (grep replacement) to extract the top and all-but-the-top into different files.
< 1273014310 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, hm? that is because compared to 32-bit x86 it is a lot saner
< 1273014320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure it is worse than most RISC platforms
< 1273014324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86 in general is crap
< 1273014331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that is what I'm stuck with
< 1273014337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, also that comment seemed out of context there
< 1273014346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since we hadn't discussed that for several screens
< 1273014351 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was referring to your XP64 VirtualBox install
< 1273014360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, that was several screens above yes
< 1273014376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, 2 screens
< 1273014377 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16 minutes ago, my how time flies
< 1273014403 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, 64-bit is not hugely better than 32-bit, nor is 32-bit so high and mighty and awesome that it fully obsoletes 16-bit
< 1273014404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, well considering we discussed other things in between yes
< 1273014411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1273014419 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"x86 in general is crap, but that is what I'm stuck with"
< 1273014424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1273014436 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all computers, OSes, languages, compilers are crap ... but it's all we've got, so we have to use them to the fullest!
< 1273014450 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GCC is far from perfect, but it's less evil than the others
< 1273014468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, you do realise that dropping the whole segmented memory thing x86_64 made a huge step in the right direction. Sure there are still segments, but only used for a way to use thread local data, and that is iirc just used as an offset then into the flat memory
< 1273014482 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, I have high hopes with clang
< 1273014488 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in theory, fine ... in practice, bad
< 1273014495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, what is bad in practise?
< 1273014503 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if everything wasn't closed source and we could all code / fix bugs, it wouldn't matter
< 1273014516 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but removing compatibility in such a proprietary world seems like a bad idea
< 1273014523 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who needs yet another incompatible mess to port to??
< 1273014531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, well, non of the really important software for me is closed source apart from bios
< 1273014541 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably some firmware in some devices too
< 1273014546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that is unlikely to be x86
< 1273014551 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not really complaining about AMD64, I don't hate it (far from it), but it's not fair to obsolete everything else just because it exists
< 1273014556 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two things can co-exist peacefully
< 1273014558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I doubt my wlan card runs x86 firmware)
< 1273014564 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273014577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, I never said that, I think we should obsolete x86 completely
< 1273014582 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that is sadly unrealistic
< 1273014588 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm no huge proprietary software fan myself, but I'm just saying ... some things can't easily be replaced, hence it's bad to remove compatibility
< 1273014602 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86 isn't bad enough to obsolete completely
< 1273014642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, I can't see any non-easily replaceable things around me except my ssh key and my gpg key :P
< 1273014650 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may not prefer pure assembly for your own personal stuff, but it ain't that bad
< 1273014660 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, gcc?   ;-)
< 1273014666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, clang + llvm
< 1273014671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :works fine for C code nowdays
< 1273014677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ still WIP
< 1273014678 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which doesn't work with computed gotos (have you tested CFunge?)
< 1273014682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it can now compile itself
< 1273014686 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WIP but works ... bootstraps itself
< 1273014688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is quite impressive
< 1273014692 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, indeed
< 1273014693 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, indeed
< 1273014708 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a lot of promise, just not perfect yet (lacking some GCC extensions some people have used too much)
< 1273014734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, also for C there are lots of other compilers, tcc and pcc for example
< 1273014739 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit more sparse when it comes to C99
< 1273014749 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenWatcom, too
< 1273014754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps
< 1273014757 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even dev86/bcc
< 1273014757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never used it myself
< 1273014768 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has no 64-bit support, so I guess you wouldn't    ;-)
< 1273014770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, mostly because I prefer protected memory or something
< 1273014789 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(re: dev86, I assume, since OW supports pmode, even Linux)
< 1273014801 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, you know, I coded for stuff more limited than an 8088
< 1273014811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, PIC12 series
< 1273014831 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PIC12F629 unless I misremember
< 1273014840 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in C?
< 1273014868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, in asm, you can't do C when you have an accumulator machine with 1024 words program memory
< 1273014881 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;-)
< 1273014891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, but that is an embedded system
< 1273014900 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, there exist 64-bit assembly programs too, as I guess you know
< 1273014903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, 8 legs, and two of those are used for vcc/gnd
< 1273014912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one was used for serial cable input
< 1273014927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, I know, I written some inline asm myself, non-temporal stores
< 1273014941 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't find GCC output a bit bloated?   :-/
< 1273014955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, I make it portable
< 1273014960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with pure C fallbacks and so on
< 1273014964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus I avoid C when I can
< 1273014972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I go for LISP or erlang most of the time
< 1273014979 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :portability is good, no doubt
< 1273014989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, anyway, I had to use the remaining 5 legs to drive 12 leds
< 1273014998 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't Erlang compile to C? (or is that Eiffel?? I forget...)
< 1273015020 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have somewhere few incomplete bits of "nesbef", a befunge93 interp for the good old NES. Left it incomplete, got somewhat bored of the 6502-clone asm.
< 1273015038 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you seen those portable NES clone machines?
< 1273015043 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, yes, I know cfunge compiles on openbsd (manual build, build system itself doesn't seem to work well here), freebsd, solaris (tested once, quite some time ago) and of course linux
< 1273015054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tested sparc, x86 and x86_64
< 1273015063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sparc I can't test often
< 1273015069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was a once off access basically
< 1273015079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it was iirc openbsd/sparc
< 1273015085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and solaris/sparc
< 1273015096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, ?
< 1273015102 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? what?
< 1273015107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the NES stuff
< 1273015138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Rugxulo> doesn't Erlang compile to C? (or is that Eiffel?? I forget...) <-- erlang compiles to bytecode, which is then run in the beam vm. you don't see beam directly most of the time, it is invoked as erl
< 1273015148 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw a NES clone portable for $30 on eBay (admittedly used, they seem to sell for $40-50 US new)
< 1273015151 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erl give you a REPL running in BEAM
< 1273015175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, you don't mean a NES emulator do you?
< 1273015176 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sparc has got those register windows, they're funky.
< 1273015177 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just thought that was interesting (since no way in hell do I want to buy an old old machine that will break)
< 1273015179 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1273015182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes quite
< 1273015187 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, a real NES (well, clone)
< 1273015191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, but the compiler handled that for me :P
< 1273015210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, not sure why I would want one
< 1273015215 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zelda 2 wasn't all that good
< 1273015220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(playable yes)
< 1273015221 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me either, just saying, it's cool that one exists
< 1273015232 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(finally dumb patents expired, and Nintendo hasn't made a NES since 1995)
< 1273015249 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zelda 2 was pretty good, I thought, but tastes vary
< 1273015250 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's been Famiclones for ages.
< 1273015262 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, and Nintendo sued them ad nauseum for years
< 1273015274 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In those countries they could, yes.
< 1273015286 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite rampant in Asia and Eastern Europe.
< 1273015294 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... And South America.
< 1273015328 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always liked Ninja Gaiden (1,2,3) for NES
< 1273015329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1273015337 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't played in years though (machine broke, doh)
< 1273015346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, there are emulators
< 1273015362 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, the NES is very well-emulated.
< 1273015365 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, which Nintendo spread a lot of FUD about for years also (dummies)
< 1273015383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, huh?
< 1273015386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about emulators?
< 1273015387 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1273015391 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember LoopyNes being quite fast (written in assembly) for DOS back in the day   ;-)
< 1273015394 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "Emulators are illegal" they say.
< 1273015395 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't enable networking in qemu
< 1273015402 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that gues OS has internet access
< 1273015402 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As well as "making backups".
< 1273015403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, how stupid.
< 1273015409 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what they say is basically, "Fair use copyright doesn't exist"
< 1273015413 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(both actions are perfectly legal. Explicitly so, even.)
< 1273015451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, that depends on the country
< 1273015460 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: US law.
< 1273015470 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They claimed this in the US.
< 1273015471 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sent them an e-mail, "So a NES emulator for Final Fantasy is illegal even though I legit purchased the game? Guess I'll have to buy a PS1 + FF combo pack!!!"
< 1273015475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm okay
< 1273015492 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, these are the idiots that also felt that a Game Genie was illegal.
< 1273015496 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then about a year later (heh, I'm not egotistical to think it was my doing), FF came out for GBA    ;-)
< 1273015515 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*After losing the lawsuit against them because it was legal*.
< 1273015549 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :these are the same people who "ported" their borked original (missing level 4) NES Donkey Kong to GBA
< 1273015587 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just seems dumb to whine about clones for a machine they haven't made in ages (1995)
< 1273015603 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as if buying used old-ass machines was any better
< 1273015610 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Older.
< 1273015626 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean they stopped in 1995
< 1273015632 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. Yeah. 1995.
< 1273015636 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... 2003 in Japan?
< 1273015648 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: this sounds like Stephen Harper
< 1273015651 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*You could still buy a new Famicom in 2003*?
< 1273015669 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlike the 7800, their SNES wasn't backwards compatible
< 1273015680 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although 3rd-party adapter existed but expensive)
< 1273015742 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also, Nintendo no longer claims emulators to be illegal, though they (correctly) argue that most every use of them to play a real game involves an illegal copy
< 1273015763 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"correctly" is a bit of a stretch since there is no legal way to copy the games
< 1273015774 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Yes there is.
< 1273015775 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they pretty much prevented fair use
< 1273015789 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are perfectly entitled to create a copy of a real cartridge.
< 1273015790 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I think those ROM dumpers are illegal themselves (or used to be)
< 1273015814 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are *explicitly* allowed by US copyright law.
< 1273015824 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not just "kinda-sort fair use", *explicitly allowed*.
< 1273015830 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :their argument was the "save data" (e.g. FF or Zelda) was someone else's, hence "proving" that you weren't getting an exact copy of the original, which I thought was a lame thing to say
< 1273015832 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they do not claim that ROM dumps are illegal either
< 1273015839 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I know it is allowed, but Nintendo doesn't think so!
< 1273015844 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: They used to.
< 1273015848 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know
< 1273015856 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, I'm surprised they've *stopped*.
< 1273015875 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know they still claimed it in the last Nintendo stuff I got (a GBA)
< 1273015885 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1273015889 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I guess I shouldn't really think they'd 100% abide by any (random) law, but their position(s) just makes no sense
< 1273015892 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm looking at the website, I don't know about the inserts
< 1273015894 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes to see
< 1273015952 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the language is pretty ambiguous, but does imply that backups are illegal
< 1273015961 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this from a Wii game manual)
< 1273015990 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but arguably it could just be a claim that backup copies are 'unauthorized' and would thus void the warranty
< 1273016005 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Rugxulo> and then about a year later (heh, I'm not egotistical to think it was my doing), FF came out for GBA    ;-) <-- FF?
< 1273016017 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :final fantasy
< 1273016027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right
< 1273016036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what was that "heh, I'm not egotistical to think it was my doing" about?
< 1273016045 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style ff7
< 1273016045 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: ff7 (Full script of the game Final Fantasy VII)
< 1273016051 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I thought my argument was fair
< 1273016054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1273016080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, I doubt that caused it
< 1273016081 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Why shouldn't I be allowed to run an emulator with my legally-purchased Final Fantasy? So buying a PS1 + FF combo is a better idea? (gives Nintendo no extra money either)"
< 1273016086 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Say something relevant. Is the script I showed you illegal, for example?
< 1273016086 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: our company may be a shinra uniform......
< 1273016088 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know it didn't, I admit   ;-)
< 1273016094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, true
< 1273016111 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hopefully the Canadian government will finally get smart and fully legalize format-shifting
< 1273016116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, never played that ff
< 1273016126 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus making emulations of ripped software legal
< 1273016129 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I played the one with spoony bard in it
< 1273016135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whichever that one was
< 1273016189 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: FFVI
< 1273016204 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(FFIII-US)
< 1273016226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1273016239 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Edward (the sppoony bard) is from IV, not VI.
< 1273016241 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was talking about the old, original FF1
< 1273016246 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, probably US one
< 1273016247 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh, right. XD
< 1273016249 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not quite as impressive, that one   ;-)
< 1273016261 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VI's the better one. :p
< 1273016266 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Ah, the one that's short "plot". :P
< 1273016273 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I have yet to play either.
< 1273016282 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though FFVI is next on my "to play" queue.
< 1273016282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, looking at wikipedia it seems closer to the VI one from the screenshots
< 1273016305 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:WikibattleFF6.PNG  <-- at least that one looks very familiar
< 1273016317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so maybe it wasn't spoony bard after all
< 1273016337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, but wasn't there some useless bard in VI too?
< 1273016347 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It must be said, the bard was, in fact, spoony.
< 1273016364 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We checked."
< 1273016369 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1273016379 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that was in the FF4 DS remake.
< 1273016397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, which one was the useless char in FFVI then?
< 1273016504 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well... there's the gambler. And that king.
< 1273016516 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're not quite as spoony as the bard.
< 1273016600 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and the moogle, e's pretty useless.
< 1273016647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1273016648 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kupo!
< 1273016664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weren't there such in secret of mana too?
< 1273016672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm different game world right?
< 1273016676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or?
< 1273016723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wikipedia says it is a spin-off
< 1273016727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that explains that
< 1273016731 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moogles have spread a bit, I think.
< 1273016734 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Different series.
< 1273016742 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But kupo.
< 1273016743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, spin-off says wikipedia though
< 1273016750 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kupo, kupo.
< 1273016761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah different game world, but even in the same series game worlds are inconsistent often
< 1273016767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just look at zelda!!)
< 1273016794 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The FF worlds don't have that much to do with themselves between installments.
< 1273016801 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: kupo
< 1273016805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did any two zelda game share a similar looking world map. I mean the relative placement of the landmarks and such
< 1273016827 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The newer games have tended to vaguely fit the same shape
< 1273016840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least secret of mana had a nicer combat system than FFVI did
< 1273016844 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-2 was a sequel for X though. Not that I've played any past 9. They're up to, what, 13 or 14 now?
< 1273016846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure about the other FF series
< 1273016856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but FFVI had a very annoying combat system
< 1273016859 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... actually
< 1273016867 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there seem to be two competing layouts for Hyrule
< 1273016874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, only two?
< 1273016887 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm only counting ones that I can think of being in multiple games
< 1273016902 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the OoT layout and the LttP layout
< 1273016918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, other games had yet other ones iirc?
< 1273016925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zelda 1 for example
< 1273016927 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1273016927 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many Zeldas are there? too many to remember, I think
< 1273016947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be fair, at least two of the zelda games takes place outside Hyrule
< 1273016951 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :three
< 1273016959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :majora's mask and links awakening
< 1273016962 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... four
< 1273016962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are the ones I know
< 1273016966 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... six
< 1273016971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, which are the remaining ones?
< 1273016981 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both Oracle games and both DS games
< 1273016990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, what are the DS ones called
< 1273016999 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks
< 1273017006 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1273017010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither rings a bell
< 1273017016 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're pretty good
< 1273017018 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wind Waker has Hyrule underwater too
< 1273017039 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15?
< 1273017042 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno about Minish Cap's map; never played it
< 1273017042 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Wikipedia)
< 1273017048 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Legend_of_Zelda
< 1273017059 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, Zeldapedia counts 15 released main-series games
< 1273017065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1273017076 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that includes the (allegedly horrible) CD-i versions?
< 1273017078 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1273017082 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are separate
< 1273017082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, which combat system do you prefer: that of FFVI or that of Secret of Mana?
< 1273017098 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: No such games.
< 1273017195 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD-i_games_from_The_Legend_of_Zelda_series
< 1273017197 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looking at a picture of Minish Cap's world map, it seems to have a different one
< 1273017238 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: It's called "discontinuity", not "ignorance of the existence".
< 1273017272 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style ct
< 1273017272 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: ct (Chrono Trigger game script)
< 1273017274 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: The sword, alone...?
< 1273017274 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: you are strong of will...! that's the pendant the gurus and miss you. you may use that " rainbow shell? can eat much!
< 1273017312 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Was hoping for "can't stop" there.)
< 1273017330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, now do what fizzie told you to
< 1273017330 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, it's been awhile prometheus! it's time you jumped off this mortal coil...?! hey! is that for us! the chef's in a snit, trying to get food to the front lines. heard a spell to energize the sword takes immense evil! indeed! this thing. what you have? transform! this trading house. it's the kind! i've decided to stay with these humans! you're a traitor! you're not our king! but, we are far outnumbered!
< 1273017351 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, almost, you had "sword" there but not the rest
< 1273017351 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: but cyrus! are you leaving! it's time you jumped off this mortal coil... yes! well then rest and relax! huh?! well, remember that you can log in anywhere on the world map! need a brief weapons and items seminar?
< 1273017359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, no good
< 1273017360 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: to the northwest of this cape. he took back the medal from the frog king. and i'd like to see that mystical sword for myself!
< 1273017366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, again not quite
< 1273017366 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, it's been awhile prometheus!!! i give you 1 weapon or 1 item! what you do? wake you, but need dactyl?!
< 1273017370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..
< 1273017380 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, no go.
< 1273017405 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lots of exclamation marks though.
< 1273017447 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's easily excited.
< 1273017452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1273017484 0 :cheater3!~cheater@ip-80-226-45-169.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273017662 0 :cheater2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1273017749 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273017764 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if it might be nicer to have them implement HQ9+ instead
< 1273017840 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION may need to write a very efficient HQ9+ compiler. :P
< 1273017863 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah. With bf, they'll get a feeling of accomplishment after getting it to run a hello world proggie.
< 1273017905 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least they should. If they don't, they're somehow defective, and you should return them to the manufacturer.
< 1273017905 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Precompute the entire output string!
< 1273017908 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1273018004 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I'm [probably] not going to ask them to implement []
< 1273018014 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, only one person will actually complete it, so..
< 1273018017 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[it's a contest]
< 1273018267 0 :augur!~augur@c-68-34-18-48.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273018451 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Rugxulo
< 1273018507 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273018896 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273019000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night
< 1273019006 0 :cheater3!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1273019034 0 :cheater3!~cheater@ip-80-226-45-169.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273019324 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Why did I just write that?
< 1273019338 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/KDge
< 1273019343 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It precomputes the string.
< 1273019509 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupidest compiler ever.
< 1273019707 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh?
< 1273019723 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HQ9+ compiler.
< 1273019724 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!userinterps
< 1273019725 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Installed user interpreters: aol austro b1ff bc bct bfbignum brit brooklyn bypass_ignore chef chiqrsx9p choo cockney ctcp dc drawl dubya echo eehird ehird fudd funetak google graph gregor hello id jethro kraut num ook pansy pirate plot postmodern postmodern_aoler redneck reverse rot13 sadbf sfedeesh sffedeesh sffffedeesh sffffffffedeesh slashes svedeesh swedish valspeak warez yodawg
< 1273019747 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!chiqrsx9p huh?
< 1273019748 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AKA stupid language.
< 1273019749 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command 'u'.  Legal commands are:
< 1273019782 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was about to tell you where the Esolang page was.
< 1273019788 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I saw that you wrote it.
< 1273019789 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1273019808 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't SAY
< 1273019833 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well at least i don't have alzheimer's
< 1273019836 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I love the X command.
< 1273019837 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1273019892 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would be heavily tempted to make that command load the rest of the file into memory *and call it*.
< 1273019894 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!show swedish
< 1273019895 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sh chef | fmt -w500
< 1273019910 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!swedish i think i'll be going to sleep now
< 1273019911 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i theenk i'll be-a gueeng tu sleep noo
< 1273019918 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :swedish my ass
< 1273019922 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;[
< 1273019925 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :g'night
< 1273019928 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bork bork bork
< 1273019939 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto en sv swedish my ass
< 1273019940 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Night nooga
< 1273019956 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :svenska min rĂ¶v
< 1273020030 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For perspective: For a programming contest that went on for a week or so, involving the incredibly arduous task of making a script that compiles all .cpp files in a directory, outputting the name of each file and any errors to a certain file, my entry was the FIRST one
< 1273020059 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Arduous?
< 1273020066 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, sarcasm
< 1273020071 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try "trivial".
< 1273020073 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1273020076 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. Good.
< 1273020083 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was a bit worried otherwise.
< 1273020117 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I did end up kind of relying on a trick involving piping the results of a find ... -print into a while loop
< 1273020132 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-exec was being a pain
< 1273020232 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on pain of execution
< 1273020625 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DAMMIT, I'M TRYING TO POST "VALUABLE" INFO TO REDDIT, AND IT'S NOT HAPPENING
< 1273020663 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :their spam filter is _such_ a bitch...
< 1273020973 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273021553 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273021948 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273022231 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1273024287 0 :bsmntbombdood!~gavin@97-118-214-39.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273025840 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273027589 0 :augur!~augur@c-68-54-80-152.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273031068 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is as tired a a beaten dead horse.
< 1273031576 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION beats Sgeo
< 1273031588 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I take it you're dead tired, then
< 1273031600 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION beats a live horse
< 1273031680 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1273032458 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1273032599 0 :mtve!~mtve@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273033184 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273033824 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273034138 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sonic screwdriver! :D
< 1273039703 0 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273039855 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1273040699 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I will do anything (almost) for a new router.
< 1273041200 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273041250 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Bye
< 1273041652 0 :bsmntbombdood_!~gavin@97-118-202-110.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273041685 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273041794 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273041843 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1273042081 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273043998 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273045860 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1273046067 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1273046399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1273046400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273046497 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom_H@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273047159 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1273049399 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273052398 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: null
< 1273052793 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1273052793 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1273052872 0 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273052872 0 :mycroftiv!~ircguy@h69-128-47-242.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273061763 0 :hiato!~fdulu@41-132-16-47.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273062429 0 :lereah_!~lereah@nanpc301.in2p3.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273062906 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273063893 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1273064656 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It annoys me hugely that what the Irish call cheesecakes do not, in fact, have any cheese in them.
< 1273064657 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: openTTD time
< 1273064681 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are a pastry thing with sponge in them, with jam in the bottom.
< 1273064738 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks at xkcd's color survey and realizes his childhood room was rather close to the unsure-whether-boy-or-girl baby room color
< 1273064796 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are really just cheesy cakes, then?
< 1273064840 0 :lereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My room as a kid was a blue wallpaper with animals on it
< 1273064847 0 :lereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it was pretty awesome
< 1273064887 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember what colour the walls in my room were.
< 1273064888 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the stereotypical boy color, lereah_
< 1273064907 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect that there may have been an Owl and the Pussycat decoration on them, though.
< 1273064923 0 :lereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah
< 1273064926 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they were yellow when I left that house, but they had been repainted.
< 1273064927 0 :lereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sister's room was pink
< 1273064934 0 :lereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With hens on it
< 1273064962 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've probably repressed the repaintings
< 1273065051 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lereah_: aka the stereotypical girl color.
< 1273065063 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe france is different
< 1273065083 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that last comment made no sense)
< 1273065084 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: It wasn't until the 20th century.
< 1273065095 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i know, i've read that it switched
< 1273065185 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That colour survey is interesting...
< 1273065210 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to have a lower degree of precision in colour names than most.
< 1273065224 0 :lereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait
< 1273065232 0 :lereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I have a photo of that wallpaper
< 1273065255 0 :lereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://membres.multimania.fr/bewulf/CAT/CAT2.jpg
< 1273065258 0 :lereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There we go
< 1273065260 0 :lereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the bottom
< 1273065304 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lereah_: very realistic painted animals, there
< 1273065308 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The disproportionate colour names for males and females are good for a joke, but fall down easily if you think about it.
< 1273065308 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ducks
< 1273065345 0 :lereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan : They were made of colored squares
< 1273065355 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@ppp-94-64-174-96.home.otenet.gr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273065396 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION had some of those Mr. books, in norwegian of course
< 1273065414 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well technically may still have them stored away
< 1273065477 0 :lereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But did you have the kittens
< 1273065500 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no.  there was a dog at one time, he had to be put down, the bastards.
< 1273065508 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kittens were absent from my childhood.
< 1273065514 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(he attacked another dog iirc)
< 1273065581 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`define heureux
< 1273065592 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Qui jouit du bonheur, qui possčde ce qui peut le rendre content; Se dit la condition, de la situation, de la vie de celui qui est heureux ... \        [22]fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/heureux \      * En parlant d'un homme heureux : "Il est né coiffé." On ne sait pas ce que ça signifie, et l'interlocuteur non plus.
< 1273065597 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help
< 1273065598 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
< 1273065602 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er
< 1273065608 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate heureux
< 1273065611 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :happy
< 1273065776 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate die
< 1273065777 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the
< 1273065782 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm...
< 1273065784 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's from german
< 1273065789 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know.
< 1273065797 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273065805 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto no en die
< 1273065807 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :die
< 1273065811 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's wrong
< 1273065828 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate rolig
< 1273065829 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funny
< 1273065842 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means what babies do when they get milk from their mothers
< 1273065863 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefrom no rolig
< 1273065863 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto no en rolig
< 1273065864 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1273065866 0 :lereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1273065867 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calm
< 1273065872 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep.
< 1273065884 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: famous swedish-norwegian false friend
< 1273065894 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I got it from WP.
< 1273065917 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto no en pule
< 1273065919 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck
< 1273065925 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto sv en pula
< 1273065928 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pula
< 1273065938 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm that may be hard to translate
< 1273065945 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's completely innocent though
< 1273065980 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo: Hello.
< 1273065986 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww.
< 1273065990 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Hello.
< 1273065991 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: you! take! we find! but you are true heros. the world, tee, hee! it's not the only one thing we need to defeat you, lavos.
< 1273065994 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like mess around
< 1273066009 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do housewoek
< 1273066010 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*r
< 1273066017 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION isn't actually sure himself
< 1273066023 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot: Hello.
< 1273066031 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help
< 1273066032 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help <command>.
< 1273066096 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Three bots?
< 1273066101 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, wait, clog.
< 1273066172 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also fungot
< 1273066173 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone
< 1273066180 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you, fungot
< 1273066199 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1273066200 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot is in Befunge-98, right?
< 1273066200 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: but, we are far outnumbered! it's cyrus! run away for now!!! after them!
< 1273066205 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1273066209 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^source
< 1273066210 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98
< 1273066215 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^help
< 1273066215 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^<lang> <code>; ^def <command> <lang> <code>; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool
< 1273066231 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Three* bots that run esolangs for you.
< 1273066249 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help
< 1273066249 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help <command>.
< 1273066249 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo doesn't really have that much in the way of esolangs, i think
< 1273066259 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help
< 1273066260 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
< 1273066271 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although anybody could put one there
< 1273066276 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls
< 1273066277 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ cube2.base64 \ cube2.jpg \ hack_gregor \ hello.txt \ help.txt \ huh \ netcat-0.7.1 \ netcat-0.7.1.tar.gz \ out.txt \ paste \ poetry.txt \ quotes \ share \ test.sh \ tmpdir.18591 \ wunderbar_emporium \ wunderbar_emporium-3.tgz \ wunderbar_emporium-3.tgz.1
< 1273066283 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls bin
< 1273066285 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? \ addquote \ calc \ commands \ creatures \ define \ esolang \ etymology \ fortune \ google \ helpme \ imdb \ karma \ marco \ minifind \ paste \ ping \ quote \ rec \ roll \ runfor \ sayhi \ strfile \ swedish \ toutf8 \ translate \ translatefromto \ translateto \ unstr \ url \ wolfram
< 1273066297 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wolfram
< 1273066298 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look up what?
< 1273066306 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wolfram 3+4
< 1273066320 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wolfram help
< 1273066321 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1273066325 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1273066344 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wolfram "What is the integral of 5x dx?"
< 1273066349 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1273066350 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly wolfram alpha have changed their format since last the command was used...
< 1273066364 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it would have been so useful!
< 1273066377 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor cannot keep up with a site that doesn't _want_ people to script it...
< 1273066387 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without a lot of work, anyway
< 1273066411 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in fact it's against their TOS iirc (vaguely))
< 1273066496 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however
< 1273066499 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`calc 3+4
< 1273066500 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 + 4 = 7
< 1273066530 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`calc the integral of 5x dx
< 1273066532 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sep 18, 2008 ... Edited: This is not an improper integral, because the integral of 5/x is 5 ln [ abs(x)] = 5 ln abs(-7) - 5 ln abs(2) = 5 ln (7) - 5 ln (2) ... Well, the function ...
< 1273066543 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`file bin/creatures
< 1273066545 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/creatures: Bourne-Again shell script text executable
< 1273066552 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`creatures
< 1273066553 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look up what?
< 1273066565 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`creatures the integral of 5x dx
< 1273066566 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it's just google, not that advanced mathematically
< 1273066567 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1273066571 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it has units and stuff
< 1273066578 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww.
< 1273066583 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`calc 1 USD in euros
< 1273066585 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 U.S. dollar = 0.770950582 Euros
< 1273066604 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just wondered what creatures _was_
< 1273066610 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/creatures
< 1273066611 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!/bin/bash \ if [ ! "$1" ] \ then \     echo 'Look up what?' \     exit 1 \ fi \  \ QUERY=`echo -n "$1" | od -t x1 -A n -w1000 | tr " " %` \  \ lynx --cfg=/dev/null --lss=/dev/null \ \     --dump --width=1000 'http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/'"$QUERY" | \     grep -A 100 'Jump to:' | \     tail -n +3 | \     sed 's/  */ /g'
< 1273066624 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1273066641 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`creatures dragon
< 1273066644 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1273066665 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`creatures MainPage
< 1273066667 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1273066705 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i may have to use my browser to find that out :(
< 1273066709 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how inefficient
< 1273066718 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Find what out?
< 1273066741 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Welcome to the Creatures Wiki - a place where you can find out about the Creatures artificial life games, and ..."
< 1273066755 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :find out what kind of creatures the creatures command looks up
< 1273066832 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are all of the cool things in life proprietary?
< 1273066915 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's because we don't have world communism, duh
< 1273066929 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cackles evilly
< 1273067135 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1273067658 0 :lereah_!~lereah@nanpc301.in2p3.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273068333 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Later
< 1273072471 0 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273072473 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe
< 1273072603 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they decommissioned last Odra 1305 (Polish mainframe computer) after 34 years of continuous work without any malfunctions
< 1273072612 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in last month
< 1273072779 0 :ywgx!~ywgx@2001:da8:9000:a100:2e1:6ff:fe6a:153 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273072883 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0RVj9GbIL0 behold
< 1273073001 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273073181 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1273073275 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y'know, the whole idea of HackEgo is that I don't HAVE to keep up, ANYBODY can keep up if they want to :P
< 1273073340 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-,-
< 1273073499 0 :ywgx!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1273073604 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, oerjan (not here): ^^^
< 1273074120 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1273074121 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1273074625 0 :cal153!~cal@c-24-4-207-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273074625 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273074774 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273075400 0 :P4!p4@unaffiliated/p4 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273075415 0 :P4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi!
< 1273076392 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yo
< 1273076851 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273076962 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273076978 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273077111 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273077165 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :odra odra 1305 is so awesome
< 1273077641 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273078367 0 :lereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273079015 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273079069 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273079448 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273079457 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273079754 0 :P4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :taka odra byla w GZE w latach 70-tych, a moze podobna :)
< 1273079784 0 :P4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a moze 80-tych
< 1273079784 0 :P4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nie pamieta
< 1273080049 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P4!
< 1273080076 0 :P4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :leeg!
< 1273080080 0 :P4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(:
< 1273080084 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf? :D
< 1273080105 0 :P4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just wondering do you guys know brainfuck mIRC script (:
< 1273080179 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never heard of
< 1273080209 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION makes a witty observation regarding your mother and a nunnery
< 1273080210 0 :P4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should parse and execute bf code after triggering it using !brainfuck <code> by apropriate users
< 1273080249 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might I suggest the Egoest of the Bots?
< 1273080253 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or perhaps Fungot?
< 1273080265 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot?
< 1273080265 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: the masamune!!! the monster who kidnapped the princess to the castle! and letting these...hoodlums in here? traitors like you deserve from heckran! ha!
< 1273080266 0 :P4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could you provide an example of bf code, please? :)
< 1273080337 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf >-[<->+++++++]<-.>++++[<+++++++>-]<+.+++++++..+++.>----[<+++>----]<.------------.>--[<->---]<+.--------.+++.------.--------.>----[<+++>----]<.>------[<---->+]<+.
< 1273080341 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, world!
< 1273080620 0 :P4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you
< 1273080672 0 :tombom_!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273080787 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1273081001 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P4: i've never seen you here
< 1273081008 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think
< 1273081078 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273081084 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273081487 0 :MigoMipo!kvirc@95.209.89.138.bredband.tre.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273081607 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1273082570 0 :P4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have been here maybe once. is that a problem? (:
< 1273082608 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope.
< 1273083526 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell putStrLn "Hello, world!"
< 1273083535 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, world!
< 1273083546 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help
< 1273083546 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help <command>.
< 1273083552 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help languages
< 1273083552 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh.
< 1273083568 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell is esoteric?
< 1273083580 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!asm
< 1273083863 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently :P
< 1273083873 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("Hewwo")
< 1273083876 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hewwo
< 1273083905 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has a C interpreter?
< 1273083911 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh ls
< 1273083911 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interps
< 1273083916 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh ls interps
< 1273083916 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1l
< 1273083927 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh file interps/1l
< 1273083927 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interps/1l: directory
< 1273083938 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh ls interps/1l
< 1273083938 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1l_a.bin
< 1273083961 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh file interps/1l/1l_a.bin
< 1273083961 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interps/1l/1l_a.bin: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.18, not stripped
< 1273083989 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hang on, I'll do this privately
< 1273084061 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273084110 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it seems to be stripping multiple lines.
< 1273084267 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah.
< 1273084323 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone know how to replace newlines with spaces?
< 1273084482 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tr '\n' ' '
< 1273084528 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Works at least on my tr, though quotation can always mess stuff up.
< 1273084563 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1273084578 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It has a C *compiler*. :)
< 1273084607 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which makes it into correct C?
< 1273084775 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.sagenb.org/home/pub/2034/
< 1273084784 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If that's spam, it's weird spam.
< 1273084837 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It attempts to compile, if it fails, it wraps in includes and int main(){}.
< 1273085554 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273087521 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273087593 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273088228 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1273088918 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1273090746 0 :|MigoMipo|!kvirc@79.138.149.26.bredband.tre.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273090881 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1273090936 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-27-102.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273090972 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a name for the set of numbers a+bi, where a, b are in N?
< 1273091035 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Complex numbers
< 1273091042 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean C?
< 1273091055 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, are in N.
< 1273091057 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that was when a and b were in R.
< 1273091059 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, ignore that :P
< 1273091067 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Naturally complex numbers ;)
< 1273091112 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And when a and b are in Z they're integrally complex numbers?
< 1273091139 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, why not X-P
< 1273091163 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And rationally complex numbers, too.
< 1273091197 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which leads to the logical name for when a and b are in R: really complex numbers.
< 1273091206 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1273091240 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are you meant to say after an awful pun?
< 1273091254 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about when a and b are in C?
< 1273091270 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it's still in C.
< 1273091277 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How boring.
< 1273091703 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Complexly complex numbers are just complex.
< 1273091734 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1273092012 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weird... When I ask Sage to plot sin(x)/x it just shows a parabola.
< 1273092050 0 :myndzi!myndzi@tengototen.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273092266 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, now I get it.
< 1273092296 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, wait, it still makes no sense.
< 1273092361 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, now it does.
< 1273092364 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ignore me.
< 1273092461 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273093215 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heyo
< 1273094202 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273094251 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Phantom_Hoover> And when a and b are in Z they're integrally complex numbers?
< 1273094259 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's known as gaussian integers
< 1273094277 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't recall a name for when they're also positive
< 1273094292 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gaussian integers in the first quadrant, perhaps
< 1273094505 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Gregor> Y'know, the whole idea of HackEgo is that I don't HAVE to keep up, ANYBODY can keep up if they want to :P
< 1273094515 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but i'm lazier than thou so THERE
< 1273094599 0 :|MigoMipo|!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: co'o rodo
< 1273094629 0 :MigoMipo!kvirc@79.138.149.26.bredband.tre.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273094693 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Phantom_Hoover> Oh, it seems to be stripping multiple lines.
< 1273094711 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually EgoBot tries to send the remaining lines as DCC
< 1273096862 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DCC?
< 1273096902 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DCC Chat
< 1273096931 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Direct Client to Client?
< 1273096932 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a protocol for communicating directly between irc clients without going through the server.  iiuc.
< 1273097006 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1273097020 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my client you need to accept the connection before seeing any text (i've added EgoBot to the automatic accept list)
< 1273097027 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What IRC client do you use?
< 1273097031 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irssi
< 1273097112 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do any of the web clients do DCC?
< 1273097117 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION installs ircii
< 1273097132 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i vaguely believe this is for security reasons, not all DCC commands are safe or something
< 1273097182 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ircii is what i used before, that's a really old client.  although maybe it's still developed.
< 1273097194 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well irssi is probably really old too
< 1273097208 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but more advanced than ircii was
< 1273097208 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not as old as ircii, though.
< 1273097234 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's the epic4 branch of ircii too, I wonder if that's still alive.
< 1273097254 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION installs irssi and curses the similar names
< 1273097263 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1273097293 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're both terminal-based, not gui
< 1273097304 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't care
< 1273097327 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is trying out Empathy, and it's even worse than ChatZilla
< 1273097338 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Phantom_Hoover
< 1273097370 0 :phantomhoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273097400 0 :phantomhoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is now using irssi
< 1273097457 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/set dcc_autochat_masks = EgoBot  is the option i used
< 1273097466 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er
< 1273097474 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/set dcc_autochat_masks EgoBot
< 1273097518 0 :phantomhoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has decided that the third person is far superior
< 1273097529 0 :phantomhoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls
< 1273097531 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ cube2.base64 \ cube2.jpg \ hack_gregor \ hello.txt \ help.txt \ huh \ netcat-0.7.1 \ netcat-0.7.1.tar.gz \ out.txt \ paste \ poetry.txt \ quotes \ share \ test.sh \ tmpdir.24589 \ wunderbar_emporium \ wunderbar_emporium-3.tgz \ wunderbar_emporium-3.tgz.1
< 1273097545 0 :phantomhoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`sh ls
< 1273097547 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1273097552 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@188.4.91.95.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273097554 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo doesn't use DCC, it just puts \ between
< 1273097561 0 :phantomhoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh ls
< 1273097561 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interps
< 1273097572 0 :phantomhoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's so easy to confuse!
< 1273097608 0 :phantomhoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh ls
< 1273097608 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interps
< 1273097611 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try something like !show slashes
< 1273097615 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!show slashes
< 1273097615 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl (sending via DCC)
< 1273097626 0 :phantomhoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!show slashes
< 1273097626 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl (sending via DCC)
< 1273097723 0 :phantomhoover!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Phantom_Hoover
< 1273097778 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the /server add command can be used to set up passwords and autoconnections
< 1273097854 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's even confusinger, mainly as I can't find any docs.
< 1273097896 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh also /channel add
< 1273097920 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/help
< 1273097930 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :www.irssi.org
< 1273097932 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc
< 1273097933 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does that not do anything?
< 1273097940 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um what?
< 1273097944 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should logically *give me help*
< 1273097951 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It makes sense!
< 1273097953 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/help certainly works here
< 1273097973 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however: do you now see Act: in the lower status bar?
< 1273097981 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes...
< 1273098001 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the number of another window probably containing your help message
< 1273098011 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :press alt-number to change to it
< 1273098015 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1273098044 0 :phantomhoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273098052 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess irssi has a bit of a learning curve :)
< 1273098065 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or esc-number if alt won't work. I ran into meta-challenged terms so often at one point that I now use esc instead of alt all the time.
< 1273098077 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i still use just the bare minimum myself
< 1273098081 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are a number of irssi tutorials.
< 1273098087 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1273098089 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273098100 0 :phantomhoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The learning curve of something flattens at how hard it is to find the docs.
< 1273098110 0 :phantomhoover!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Phantom_Hoover
< 1273098118 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Our university has several, on web-pages of courses that have an official channel.
< 1273098181 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://irssi.org/documentation has a "startup HOWTO".
< 1273098239 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ah, /window show <number> to get it in a split screen
< 1273098274 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alt-up or alt-down then changes between them
< 1273098295 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION makes no claim that this is the most efficient method
< 1273098342 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1273098507 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1273098543 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273098545 0 :hiato!~fdulu@41-132-16-47.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273098581 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh ls
< 1273098581 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interps
< 1273098866 0 :tombom_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1273099264 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal
< 1273099813 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh
< 1273099832 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P4: r u here?
< 1273099843 0 :P4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup
< 1273099865 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :priv?
< 1273099897 0 :P4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, don't ask me about that
< 1273100241 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sadbf +[.+]
< 1273100242 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
< 1273100253 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1273100255 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1273100266 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!show sadbf
< 1273100267 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadol :M$0 :d:i,45000@>i-01(2]M0:i-i1:S$0:C;3:l#C-01:p:m0@<pl(2?=#Cp"1+:#Mm%+#Mm1,3255?=#Cp"1-:#Mm?<-#Mm10,3254-#Mm1?=#Cp"1>:m%+m1d?=#Cp"1<:m?<-m10-s1-m1?=#Cp"1.!'2#Mm?=#Cp"1,:#Mm'1;0?=#Cp"1[]S-p1?=#Cp"1]?=#Mm00:p[S0:p+p1
< 1273100301 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273100427 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sadbf ++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++++>+++>+<<<<-]>++.>+.+++++++..+++.>++.<<+++++++++++++++.>.+++.------.--------.>+.>.
< 1273100427 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello World!
< 1273100429 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1273100510 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a BF in hackego? If not, maybe someone should put one in, to act as a sort of a lowest-common-denominator language.
< 1273100525 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a BF in hackego? If not, maybe someone should put one in, to act as a sort of a lowest-common-denominator language.
< 1273100531 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two bfbots is a bit little.
< 1273100555 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what HackEgo has?
< 1273100561 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls bin
< 1273100562 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? \ addquote \ calc \ commands \ creatures \ define \ esolang \ etymology \ fortune \ google \ helpme \ imdb \ karma \ marco \ minifind \ paste \ ping \ quote \ rec \ roll \ runfor \ sayhi \ strfile \ swedish \ toutf8 \ translate \ translatefromto \ translateto \ unstr \ url \ wolfram
< 1273100595 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls bin/esolang
< 1273100596 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/esolang
< 1273100598 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: BTW: apt-get address preference thingie was not just apt-get, it was getaddrinfo. Fixed by making label and perecedence of 6to4 be the same as percendence and label of general IPv6.
< 1273100601 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alas.
< 1273100612 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1273100614 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that's a wiki lookup
< 1273100618 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is HackEgo built?
< 1273100628 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ^
< 1273100641 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :v
< 1273100666 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|
< 1273100670 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :v
< 1273100671 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o
< 1273100846 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273100883 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brits
< 1273100887 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are elections today?
< 1273100908 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuuuuuuuck
< 1273100917 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/5008/125/
< 1273100932 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tomorrow
< 1273100933 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guys, where are the graphs showing oerjan's sleep hours ? :D
< 1273100995 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT'S CLASSIFIED
< 1273101011 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise, ask fizzie
< 1273101026 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: where are those pretty graphs?
< 1273101198 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie fizzie fizzie
< 1273101227 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems he has fizzled out
< 1273101306 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have very new graphs of anything.
< 1273101353 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about old ones?
< 1273101395 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zem.fi/~fis/test7.png
< 1273101414 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also some other numbers than 7 for other styles.
< 1273101453 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have regular sleeping hours. Who knew.
< 1273101456 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thx
< 1273101461 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the times are probably Finnish localtime; EET/EEST.
< 1273101497 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see Alise's school hours
< 1273101512 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only a 5 hours range I've *not* been around in. :P
< 1273101552 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And oerjan and oklopol never sleep.
< 1273101608 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evil never sleeps.
< 1273101618 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/
< 1273101618 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And good is always vigilant.
< 1273101635 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The test6 graph has absolute values, as opposed to relative fraction of all talk at a given time like test7 does.
< 1273101691 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oklopol still doesn't sleep.
< 1273101749 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was that cool functional forth-like language that everybody was talking about some time ago (trollface)
< 1273101753 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1273101773 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Functional... Forth-like?
< 1273101792 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, it had a stack
< 1273101792 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only thing I know of that fits that description is Reverse Polish Lisp.
< 1273101807 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was much like it
< 1273101810 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (Underload)S
< 1273101810 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Underload
< 1273101814 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIGHT!
< 1273101817 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that.
< 1273101924 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((Underload)~:aSS)(Underload)~:aSS
< 1273101924 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((Underload)~:aSS)(Underload)~:aSS
< 1273102128 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like it
< 1273102545 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time to complain to MPs :(
< 1273102647 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: isn't it a little late to complain when they're being replaced?
< 1273102667 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is Canadian
< 1273102671 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait you were canadian, n... right
< 1273102689 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION got confused when you answered when the uk election was
< 1273102698 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CLEARLY ONLY A BRIT WOULD KNOW
< 1273102810 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i'll implement underload-like lang in Verilog
< 1273102835 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since i've got FPGA dev board
< 1273102864 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be a nice exercise before building machine lisp
< 1273102869 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Some of us care about current events worldwide, even!
< 1273102928 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about the death of Polish president, all high generals + some government ppl
< 1273102939 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: that's SO last month
< 1273102941 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was an event!
< 1273102942 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not current
< 1273102954 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What lang is hackbot written in?
< 1273102977 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cant imagine how stupid you must be to put all vips along with high command in one plane
< 1273102987 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato: something non-esoteric, i assume
< 1273102996 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: aaah, oh well
< 1273103057 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato: it's a linux inside a jail with mercury versioning
< 1273103077 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*mercurial
< 1273103077 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: how is that non-esoteric? :P
< 1273103089 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato: well it doesn't use an esolang afaik
< 1273103101 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, yeah, I see
< 1273103149 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: i recall the other polish vip plane was grounded for repairs?
< 1273103220 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever
< 1273103238 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they could hire some planes from polish airlines
< 1273103248 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah _someone_ should win a darwin award for that one
< 1273103264 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone know the proper address for an MP?
< 1273103269 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear Honorable Member?
< 1273103291 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:43 < oerjan> hiato: it's a linux inside a jail with mercury versioning
< 1273103296 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what kind of jail?
< 1273103298 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VM?
< 1273103314 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: i don't remember
< 1273103336 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Dear Hon. N. Clegg, MP
< 1273103338 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1273103347 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: it has a custom libc
< 1273103361 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato: possibly
< 1273103392 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: But it wouldn't be Hon. unless they were, in fact, The Honurable So and So
< 1273103402 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1273103441 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so s/Hon/Mr/
< 1273103441 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: It is in a chroot without any files other than the dynamic linker.
< 1273103442 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto no en klegg
< 1273103444 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gadfly
< 1273103465 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ?
< 1273103480 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually. No, I don't think it even has that.
< 1273103543 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato: a pun on nick clegg
< 1273103556 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think some people in the british parliament would appreciate it
< 1273103595 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls /
< 1273103597 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ dev \ etc \ home \ lib \ lib64 \ proc \ tmp \ usr
< 1273103602 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls /bin
< 1273103603 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash \ bunzip2 \ bzcat \ bzcmp \ bzdiff \ bzegrep \ bzexe \ bzfgrep \ bzgrep \ bzip2 \ bzip2recover \ bzless \ bzmore \ cat \ chgrp \ chmod \ chown \ cp \ cpio \ dash \ date \ dd \ df \ dir \ dmesg \ dnsdomainname \ domainname \ echo \ ed \ egrep \ false \ fgrep \ grep \ gunzip \ gzexe \ gzip \ hostname \ ip \ kill \ less
< 1273103622 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are plenty of files
< 1273103627 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: cricket
< 1273103833 0 :CASA!~CASA@ppp-161-19.33-151.iol.it JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273103878 0 :CASA!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1273104605 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1273104859 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-34-17-217.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273104908 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1273105023 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does one become a millionaire?
< 1273105039 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you really want to know?
< 1273105055 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you start as a billionaire and then you use money like crazy
< 1273105074 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that does not count
< 1273105090 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Malcolm Gladwell has some theories in his book Outliers, nooga
< 1273105095 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :highly recommended
< 1273105146 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, one needs 10,000 hours to become a good enough expert in a field to make the big bucks
< 1273105226 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't even bargain properly
< 1273105376 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: Two options: luck, and being born a millionaire.
< 1273105429 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I disagree--luck provides the opportunity, perhaps, but hard work is usually necessary to act on it
< 1273105471 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm pretty sure that iI
< 1273105486 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'I've spent more than 10000 hours using my computer
< 1273105706 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10,000 hours is roughly 10 years
< 1273105715 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it isn
< 1273105743 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't just "using" something, it's practicing something--continually pushing toward the perfection of this use
< 1273105790 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1273105821 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think another aspect of success is that you have to dare
< 1273105843 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to take action and risk
< 1273105848 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10,000 hours is about 5 years working full time.
< 1273105888 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 1.56981132075472
< 1273105897 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :years
< 1273105905 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :working 24/7
< 1273105920 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Working 24/7 is plausible, if dreaming counts.
< 1273105958 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oranjer: 10,000 hours is a year and a couple months.
< 1273105980 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, not 24/7
< 1273105983 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`calc 10000 hours in years
< 1273105986 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 000 hours = 1.14079553 years
< 1273106012 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl's estimate is better--I am wondering how Gladwell came up with the ten years he often cites in his book
< 1273106036 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who *merely* works full time on something? :P
< 1273106038 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :roughly it's like working 4 hours a day for 1 years
< 1273106039 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By assuming you practice for 20 hours a week, I guess.
< 1273106062 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10*
< 1273106083 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i've had error because of int/float conversion
< 1273106083 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the time you hit competence, you're likely to spend much, much more time doing... Whatever.
< 1273106094 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 hours a day seems like it wouldn't be your job, just a hobby
< 1273106096 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming you actually give a damn about it.
< 1273106109 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean, pikhq
< 1273106132 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try and make it so you could get paid doing $thing?
< 1273106156 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'm going to go try to save the world again.
< 1273106166 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("Again" attaches to "try" there, not "save".)
< 1273106171 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, the three are venn diagram, pikhq?
< 1273106178 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :paid for, enjoy, good at?
< 1273106201 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :save the world how, uorygl?
< 1273106201 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've noticed that i love to do stupid things like esolangs and i can spend days on stupid experiments with electronics
< 1273106216 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but when i must code something useful - i procrastinate
< 1273106231 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2010/05/04/f-gollom-arizona-immigration.html
< 1273106325 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :useless and bizzare = cool
< 1273107050 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, there's nothing better than setting your alarm clock in cron
< 1273107769 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273109483 0 :augur!~augur@c-68-34-18-48.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273111214 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273112037 0 :ojomistico!~albert_53@adsl-8-208-200.mia.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273112081 0 :ojomistico!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1273112194 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273112305 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :`q`
< 1273113176 0 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273116270 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night
< 1273116331 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1273116859 0 :cal153!~cal@c-24-4-207-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273117289 0 :Alex3012!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273120116 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273120303 0 :bsmntbombdood!~gavin@97-118-202-110.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273120471 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1273123392 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273123421 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273125183 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273125192 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273125403 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1273126325 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1273127174 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: restart
< 1273128661 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273129408 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273129659 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273129671 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am learning qwerty!
< 1273129683 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's so difficult!
< 1273130099 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...what
< 1273130108 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qwerty wasn't the first layout you learned?
< 1273130110 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/
< 1273130111 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   |
< 1273130111 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  /´\
< 1273130249 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1273130261 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i learned dvorak first
< 1273130267 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :many years ago
< 1273130278 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now switching is hard!
< 1273130279 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting
< 1273130282 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did that come about?
< 1273130289 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i switched the other direction ;)
< 1273130292 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i found it quite easy
< 1273130384 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe because qwerty is just harder :)
< 1273130436 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1273130448 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                                        \o/
< 1273130448 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                                         |
< 1273130448 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                                         >\
< 1273130449 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's less natural feeling, yes
< 1273130454 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't suspect it's any harder to learn
< 1273130464 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are, of course, avoiding dvorak like the plague?
< 1273130478 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only real way to learn is to go cold turkey on what you know
< 1273130481 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im especially confused by the letters b and y
< 1273130486 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, yeah
< 1273130489 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck that, i always mix up b
< 1273130491 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and x
< 1273130495 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not so much y
< 1273130500 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're very close to their dvorak positions, but on opposite hands
< 1273130508 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much exactly why
< 1273130544 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could always learn colemak or something haha
< 1273130547 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is #esoteric after all
< 1273130548 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but also i just keep instinctively typing in dvorak
< 1273130551 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never
< 1273130554 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why restrict it to just languages?
< 1273130564 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's all type in esoteric keyboard layouts too!
< 1273130573 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1273130576 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :colemak is a dvorak substitute
< 1273130585 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :honestly it took me about a week to learn to touch type dvorak from knowing qwerty
< 1273130598 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't expect it will take you much different to do the reverse, if you just irc a lot
< 1273130614 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eventually i relearned qwerty and now i'm pretty much bilingual
< 1273130618 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im touch typing, just really slowly
< 1273130621 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can type about 100wpm in either
< 1273130626 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, yeah
< 1273130629 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the think-and-peck stage ;)
< 1273130635 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah :)
< 1273130647 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i was up to about 30wpm in a month
< 1273130656 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one-letter-at-a-time stage
< 1273130664 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but without the pauses for "where the hell is that key?"
< 1273130665 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you ever confuse layouts
< 1273130668 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope
< 1273130677 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly because of environmental conditioning
< 1273130682 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd be hard pressed to type qwerty at home
< 1273130693 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though i have an easier time typing dvorak arbitrarily on any other keyboard
< 1273130695 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im especially worried about things like vim
< 1273130708 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh man
< 1273130716 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hjkl on qwerty is dumb :)
< 1273130717 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did you get by in a program like that with dvorak as your la yout?
< 1273130720 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :layout*
< 1273130723 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er
< 1273130727 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very easily
< 1273130727 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1273130738 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most vim shortcuts are mnemonics
< 1273130744 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except for hjkl
< 1273130752 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that helps i guess
< 1273130758 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and those actually make more sense on dvorak imo
< 1273130767 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of games and various programs have button choices based on physical location on a qwerty layout though, at least in part
< 1273130775 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1273130778 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hjkl makes no sense on dvorak :P
< 1273130785 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zxc is big
< 1273130788 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :h and l are completely arbitrary
< 1273130790 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes lots of sense
< 1273130800 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if jk was like left-right then i guess that pair would be ok at least
< 1273130810 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't actually know vi keys, but i think hjkl was navigation?
< 1273130812 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right hand is for moving horizontally
< 1273130822 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :h is for left, l is for right
< 1273130832 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least it worked out that way
< 1273130835 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats why they're on opposite sides
< 1273130839 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(on dvorak)
< 1273130845 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's still a bit of a stretch to say it makes sense :P
< 1273130852 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :left hand is for moving vertically
< 1273130866 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and j and k are both very convenient
< 1273130901 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on qwerty its stupid because you cant actually put your fingers over hjkl
< 1273130921 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right hand: one space to the left
< 1273130921 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :done
< 1273130927 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you move them from the home position in a way in which you would never do otherwise
< 1273130952 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and moving your hand away from home key is better than using TWO hands in weird arbitrary ways? ;)
< 1273130955 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i wanted to move my hand from the home position, id use a mouse
< 1273130985 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hl on dvorak is not exactly home position either
< 1273130988 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor is jk
< 1273130989 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is
< 1273130999 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :l is on the top row
< 1273131004 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :h is the only homerow key
< 1273131008 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so? h remains on h
< 1273131025 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your hand is on the home position if any fingers are on the right home keys
< 1273131042 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your mind knows the exact location of everything
< 1273131045 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1273131062 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have little bumps on the index home row buttons
< 1273131065 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are plenty to orient me
< 1273131087 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly, that's why there're only two bumps and not 8
< 1273132236 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1273132799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
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< 1273133303 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Bye
< 1273133602 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
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< 1273137291 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1273142052 0 :adu!~ajr@pool-173-66-252-197.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273144769 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ilua
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< 1273146803 0 :hiato!~fdulu@41-132-16-47.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1273151111 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
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< 1273151178 0 :jix!~jix@tomakin.h-ix.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273151468 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1273152171 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1273152674 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273152968 0 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273153088 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1273157471 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1273157939 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1273158242 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: underflow
< 1273158357 0 :phantomhoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273158379 0 :phantomhoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It appears that there is no Core Wars fanfic on the web.
< 1273158384 0 :phantomhoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This must be rectified
< 1273158391 0 :phantomhoover!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Phantom_Hoover
< 1273158742 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot
< 1273158743 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it's a machine that looks like you! you shall find bekkler! executing program. please let me go... put me out! he's really a tricycle! pass him!
< 1273158756 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Help.
< 1273158757 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: by thy leave, crono?!! you brought back my cat! thank you, crono!
< 1273158775 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank you, fungot.
< 1273158776 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: the king awaits. you saved our queen? you see, the mammon machine!?
< 1273158784 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That will be enough.
< 1273158941 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does he do this every time someone says "fungot"?
< 1273158942 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i'd like to see that mystical sword for myself! geez!
< 1273159440 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungotfungotfungot
< 1273159445 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot fungot fungot
< 1273159454 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal
< 1273160184 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273160253 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: adu
< 1273161187 0 :jix!~jix@tomakin.h-ix.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273163048 0 :beinghuman!~beinghuma@unaffiliated/curtb JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273163081 0 :beinghuman!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf is esoteric programming?
< 1273163098 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Programming for insane people.
< 1273163104 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolang.org/wiki
< 1273163140 0 :beinghuman!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are they insane because their wiki doesn't load?
< 1273163145 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki
< 1273163151 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always get that wrong.
< 1273163196 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More generally esoteric languages that aren't designed for practical programming.
< 1273163247 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some are to investigate ideas, some are meant to be deliberately impossible, and some are just jokes.
< 1273163279 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and minimalism. Mustn't forget minimalism.
< 1273163292 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :painful minimalism
< 1273163302 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scheme is minimalist, but its not esoteric because its actually usable.
< 1273163309 0 :beinghuman!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm looking for a room on freenode full of people willing to beta test opensource software
< 1273163332 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try #opensourcebetas
< 1273163369 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273163397 0 :beinghuman!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah
< 1273163438 0 :beinghuman!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: thanks. as soon as I mentioned it in that room about 50 people volunteered.
< 1273163444 0 :beinghuman!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then left
< 1273163538 0 :beinghuman!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's up with the topic?
< 1273163559 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mentioned it a while ago and alise thought it was hilarious.
< 1273163568 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No-one's been bothered to change it since.
< 1273163590 0 :beinghuman!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't get why it's hilarious
< 1273163594 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Not infact a place to find opensource beta testers. | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D
< 1273163595 0 :beinghuman!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not surprising really
< 1273163649 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Not, in fact, a place to find open-source beta testers.
< 1273163652 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grammar.
< 1273163668 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link.
< 1273163669 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops.
< 1273163675 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also fuck your grammar, bitch
< 1273163680 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that aint grammar
< 1273163682 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats spelling
< 1273163695 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was both, actually
< 1273163699 0 :beinghuman!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's esoteric pro-grammar
< 1273163700 0 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273163703 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not, in fact, a place to find open-source beta testers. | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D
< 1273163704 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it wasnt both.
< 1273163712 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MY BRAIIIIIIIIIIIIN
< 1273163733 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about it?
< 1273163734 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was nothing but orthography.
< 1273163741 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Commas, too.
< 1273163745 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :commas are orthography.
< 1273163753 0 :beinghuman!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<b>blah</b>
< 1273163771 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HTML is decadent and capitalist!
< 1273163777 0 :beinghuman!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://conservapedia.com/Conservapedia:Richard_Dawkins_Project#Dawkins_the_clown
< 1273163793 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: But not spelling.
< 1273163800 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true.
< 1273163806 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hence why i said it was nothing but orthography
< 1273163811 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afterwards.
< 1273163816 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not, however, grammar.
< 1273163820 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aye
< 1273163831 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beinghuman: Out of curiosity, how did you find this place?
< 1273163833 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you know about ortography!
< 1273163837 0 :beinghuman!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /list
< 1273163840 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: im a linguist.
< 1273163841 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How to spell it!
< 1273163889 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and as you can seen from wikipedia, i don't consider orthography to be grammar: "Linguists do not normally use the term to refer to orthographical rules, although usage books and style guides that call themselves grammars may also refer to spelling and punctuation."
< 1273163892 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: check out ĹĽ/rz h/ch Ĺ„/ni Ä…/om Ä‡/ci and separate nie-
< 1273163901 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("the term" there being "grammar")
< 1273163930 0 :lereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273163931 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fine. s/Grammar/Orthography/
< 1273163937 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Happy?
< 1273163939 0 :beinghuman!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol at this shit storm for dawkins calling the pop a soft pedophile
< 1273163943 0 :beinghuman!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pope
< 1273163952 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes.
< 1273163978 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. Now we can go back to... Um...
< 1273163997 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not beta testing software.
< 1273164042 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273164241 0 :beinghuman!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.truefreethinker.com/about
< 1273164243 0 :beinghuman!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't tell
< 1273164248 0 :beinghuman!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this site an elaborate joke?
< 1273164255 0 :beinghuman!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or am I falling prey to Poe's law here?
< 1273164276 0 :beinghuman!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that picture just makes me think it could be fake
< 1273164285 0 :beinghuman!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean... he can't be serious
< 1273164392 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Not, in fact, a place to find open-source beta testers. | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D
< 1273164451 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Clearly there should be a language where all the punctuation is actually grammatically relevant.
< 1273164483 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1273164492 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :punctuation is an orthographic device conventionalized to demarcate different grammatical properties
< 1273164500 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suck at this whole topic thing.
< 1273164506 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but punctuation doesn't exist in the language itself
< 1273164615 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. My thoughts were more along the lines of making punctuation just be a very, very short way of writing some sort of word or phrase that should be said in various places. For instance, "foo, bar, qux quuxy." would be read as "foo comma bar comma qux quuxy stop".
< 1273164620 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is, of course, silly.
< 1273164647 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plenty of programming languages do that.
< 1273164691 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1273164695 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways. All this is still kinda beside the point.
< 1273164717 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That being "orthography is not 'part of the language' but rather just some conventions to encode it"
< 1273164743 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it evidently isn't part of the language.
< 1273164749 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't pronounce it.
< 1273164866 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: its doable. in written japanese, for instance, i believe the convention is to use periods to end sentences. asking a question is either "nani nani ka." or "nani nani?"
< 1273164866 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The language I'm speaking would still be English, even if I opted to write it using Chinese characters.
< 1273164880 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where the ? sort of consumes the ka (and .)
< 1273164907 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chinese characters aren't built for expressing English
< 1273164927 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Not *quite* the same. "?", much like in English, is merely indicative of an inquisitive tone.
< 1273164936 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor, in fact, are Latin characters.
< 1273164944 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why English spelling is insane.
< 1273164948 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then what?
< 1273164961 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: Surprisingly, it works quite decently when you treat it a bit like Japanese does.
< 1273164969 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: well, syntacticians would say the inquisitive tone is actually the result of a silent "ka" in there ;)
< 1273164986 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Isn't necessarily *actually* a question.
< 1273165000 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither are things in english with said tones!
< 1273165005 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1273165011 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ášášášŠášŚ
< 1273165019 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whereas with "ka", it absolutely must be a question.
< 1273165027 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true enough
< 1273165029 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: listen to Japanese speaking English
< 1273165042 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: ?
< 1273165055 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bible black -> baiiuburu buraku
< 1273165061 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rissen tsu japonizu supeakingu ingurishu
< 1273165067 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that.
< 1273165068 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1273165078 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer listening to Japanese speaking Japanese.
< 1273165099 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The English mangling, it is much less.
< 1273166033 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273166051 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello!
< 1273166091 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hellote.
< 1273166098 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hellote
< 1273166099 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1273168178 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1273168296 0 :beinghuman!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1273168327 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1273168374 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're dropping like flies...
< 1273170503 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1273170528 0 :phantomhoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273170727 0 :kwertii!~kwertii@ResNet-33-228.resnet.ucsb.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273170871 0 :Rugxulo!~user@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273171144 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is confused ... wtf is Conservapedia?
< 1273171168 0 :phantomhoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The right-wing Christian version of Wikipedia.
< 1273171173 0 :phantomhoover!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Phantom
< 1273171181 0 :Phantom!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Phantom_Hoover
< 1273171190 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's what they claim to be.
< 1273171282 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273171385 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never heard of it
< 1273171400 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew there were other *pedias (uncyclopedia, most notably), though
< 1273171416 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conservapedia was pretty funny back in the day.
< 1273171432 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now it's just a bunch of trolls and morons trolling and being moronic.
< 1273171520 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vs. the rest of the Internet???
< 1273171549 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, and the rest of the Internet isn't entertaining.
< 1273171563 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And contains no Core War fanfic, which is appalling.
< 1273171666 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not even erotic Core War fanfics? How strange.
< 1273171678 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would that work...?
< 1273171686 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to think about that.
< 1273171717 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why'd you ask, then? Anyway, I assume you'd just describe the actions of the programs in a sexy way, or something.
< 1273171736 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.atariage.com/software_page.html?SoftwareLabelID=119
< 1273171755 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't worry, it's very tame   ;-)
< 1273171780 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tame? There's photorealistic (well, almost) pictures of nude people in it!
< 1273171812 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :photorealistic? hardly
< 1273171818 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's very bad pixelated art
< 1273171823 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very very pixelated
< 1273171837 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I try to write erotic Core War fanfic here as a joke, but I can never finish the sentences.
< 1273171884 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, this is one argument against unlocked consoles   ;-)
< 1273171893 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: You just need to squint a bit.
< 1273171895 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people make strange stuff sometimes   ;-))
< 1273171920 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can barely tell who the man is!
< 1273171948 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For a bit less work-safe more of same, there's a cracked.com list, http://www.cracked.com/article_17206_the-10-most-perverted-old-school-video-games.html
< 1273171962 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't click if you're not the sort of person who should be clicking that sort of links, and so on.
< 1273172049 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's hardly too bad if it's fake art
< 1273172096 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strip Fighter? heh
< 1273172206 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously, I think Atari was offended that their unlocked 2600 had so many lame games from third parties, hence they made later consoles have to be signed first
< 1273172614 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273172769 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rotflmao :   http://cdn-www.cracked.com/articleimages/ob/seanbaby/naughty04b.gif
< 1273172777 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Atari 2600 graphic, horribly bad)
< 1273172784 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/bad/badly drawn/
< 1273172830 0 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273172866 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that doesn't make you laugh, nothing will   ;-)
< 1273172943 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boong-ga Boong-ga ... ha, lamest . game . evah
< 1273173098 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1273173244 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol  "WHY THE HELL WOULD ANYONE STICK THEIR FINGER UP RANDOM STRANGER'S ASSES FOR FUN.
< 1273173244 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GODDAMNIT JAPAN WHY?"
< 1273173287 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the damn comments are funnier than the article!
< 1273173305 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will award one internet to the first person who can write erotic Core War fanfic.
< 1273173325 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can make it slashfic you win first prize.
< 1273173462 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In Japan, there is even a TV gameshow where a celebrity routinely kanchĹŤs random people" ... yikes!
< 1273173559 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kanchou is... Fucking bizarre.
< 1273173571 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup
< 1273173586 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even by Japanese standards.
< 1273173609 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1273174304 0 :pgimeno!~pgimeno@195-5-95-34.usul.arrakis.es JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273174512 0 :cal153!~cal@client-235-129.events.shownets.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273175447 0 :phantomhoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273175572 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1273178051 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273178064 0 :phantomhoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello!
< 1273178222 0 :phantomhoover!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Phantom_Hoover
< 1273178248 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)
< 1273178460 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!pmars
< 1273178465 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell
< 1273178502 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell (\f x -> f $ f $ f x)
< 1273178591 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c *0;
< 1273178594 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does not compile.
< 1273178652 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c int *p = (int *) 0; printf("%d\n", *p);
< 1273178654 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./interps/gcccomp/gcccomp: line 52:  1679 Segmentation fault      /tmp/compiled.$$
< 1273178663 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh ls /tmp
< 1273178664 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :input.1700
< 1273178695 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh ls /
< 1273178696 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin
< 1273178711 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1273178719 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help
< 1273178720 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help <command>.
< 1273178729 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help userinterps
< 1273178730 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :userinterps: Users can add interpreters written in any of the languages in !help languages. See !help addinterp, delinterp, show | !userinterps. List interpreters added with !addinterp.
< 1273178739 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help addinterp
< 1273178740 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :addinterp: !addinterp <name> <language> <code>. Add a new interpreter to EgoBot. This interpreter will be run once every time you type !<name> <subcode>, and receive the program code as input.
< 1273179164 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c ((void(*)())NULL)();
< 1273179165 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./interps/gcccomp/gcccomp: line 52:  1887 Segmentation fault      /tmp/compiled.$$
< 1273179182 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perfect.
< 1273179223 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What other outcome did you expect?
< 1273179273 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly I expected there to be a function at NULL.
< 1273179282 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Clearly*.
< 1273179680 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c 0xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
< 1273179696 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("%d\n", 0xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF);
< 1273179697 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-1
< 1273179703 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Error: Murder.
< 1273179712 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("%d\n", 0xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF);
< 1273179713 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-1
< 1273179716 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("%d\n", 0xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF);
< 1273179717 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-1
< 1273179738 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("%p\n", 0xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF);
< 1273179739 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0xffffffffffffffff
< 1273179754 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Congrats, you've learned about truncation!
< 1273179765 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was curious, OK?
< 1273179771 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... And a little bit about two's complement.
< 1273179780 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already knew about that!
< 1273179791 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-a = ~a+1
< 1273179795 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt that!
< 1273179856 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just demonstrated that I do!
< 1273180240 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lies and I feel like having a sandwich!
< 1273180390 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1273182691 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Seeeeeya
< 1273183396 0 :dbc!~daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273183398 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1273183842 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1273183860 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273183891 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, what party best represents the views of the esoteric programmers?
< 1273183936 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273183950 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends on region, particular esoteric programmer, and whether or not we have to pick ones that are in any way influential.
< 1273183997 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I thought hagbart was the guy in the Illuminatus! trilogy.
< 1273184048 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm could be, i haven't read that
< 1273184067 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But whose policies consider the downtrodden esoteric programmers?
< 1273184077 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another machine here is named tyrell, obviously from bladerunner
< 1273184088 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't read it either...
< 1273184098 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Puroguramatou!
< 1273184111 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ă—ă­ă‚°ă©ăžĺ…š!
< 1273184111 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh hagbart is a norwegian name
< 1273184122 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sadly not a real party.
< 1273184141 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some of the other machines (at least used to be) named after norwegian children's movie characters
< 1273184151 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(kanutten & romeo-klive)
< 1273184238 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Norway seems interesting...
< 1273184279 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nvg's first server was named swix, after a norwegian ski wax
< 1273184291 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it was a vax running ultrix)
< 1273184320 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NVG?
< 1273184328 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nettverksgruppa
< 1273184342 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate nettverksgruppa
< 1273184350 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :var sl_select, tl_select, web_sl_select, web_tl_select;var ctr, web_ctr, h;var tld = ".com";var sug_lab = "";var sug_thk = "";var sug_exp = "";var dhead = "Dictionary";var dmore = "View detailed dictionary";var tr_in = "Translating...";var isurl = "";var show_roman = "Show romanization";var hide_roman =
< 1273184357 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273184362 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that helps.
< 1273184364 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assumed you got hagbart from my hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no reverse ip address
< 1273184369 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1273184377 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the network(ing) group"
< 1273184383 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a computer club
< 1273184392 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are computer clubs?
< 1273184412 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Real Programmers don't spend time with other people!
< 1273184413 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the ntnu university
< 1273184435 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it actual has two computer clubs (the other being pvv, programvareverkstedet)
< 1273184438 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ly
< 1273184463 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: well i haven't visited the actual club location for years
< 1273184506 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not since the great move (part of the merger of the two parts of university that the two computer clubs were at)
< 1273184524 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just use my old shell account and web page there
< 1273184552 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You people and your big networks.
< 1273184557 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in earlier times, we used to have pizza nights and stuff
< 1273184586 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is possible the more active people still do
< 1273184592 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Real Programmers eat whatever's stuck in their chair!
< 1273184608 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not really a real programmer anyway
< 1273184618 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evidently.
< 1273184784 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in fact i've been wondering about that hagbart name myself, it's not a character i recognise
< 1273184800 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's actually Hagbard.
< 1273184917 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha
< 1273184935 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there were enough hits for hagbart celine that i didn't notice
< 1273184940 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, what do you do?
< 1273184962 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but only hagbard has a wikipedia page, obviously
< 1273184976 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, absolutely nothing
< 1273185005 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would appear that hagar the horrible is called hagbard in danish
< 1273185019 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and hĂĄrek in norwegian fwiw)
< 1273185132 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both being more genuine viking names
< 1273185228 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vikings!
< 1273185515 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still feel that the world needs Corw War fanfic.
< 1273185522 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/Corw/Core/
< 1273185555 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erotic fanfic would be even better.
< 1273185786 0 :gm|lap!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273186047 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: null
< 1273186729 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1273186933 0 :adam_d!~Adam@cpc2-acto6-0-0-cust48.brnt.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273187432 0 :phantomhoover!~phantomho@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273187713 0 :cal153!~cal@c-24-4-207-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273187822 0 :phantomhoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal
< 1273188151 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ilua
< 1273188659 0 :P4!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1273188667 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1273188800 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273188924 0 :P4!P4@unaffiliated/p4 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273189330 0 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273190595 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273190630 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My laptop is, for all intents and purposes, dead
< 1273190637 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Needs a new power cable
< 1273191340 0 :augur!~augur@store.redemmas.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273191451 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-34-17-217.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273191777 0 :CT|P4!p4@89.248.165.11 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273191966 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate programvareverkstedet
< 1273191968 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :var sl_select, tl_select, web_sl_select, web_tl_select;var ctr, web_ctr, h;var tld = ".com";var sug_lab = "";var sug_thk = "";var sug_exp = "";var dhead = "Dictionary";var dmore = "View detailed dictionary";var tr_in = "Translating...";var isurl = "";var show_roman = "Show romanization";var hide_roman =
< 1273192004 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh, Google Translate says it's "software workshop".
< 1273192007 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :software workshop
< 1273192011 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...right
< 1273192020 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the
< 1273192049 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate verksted
< 1273192052 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :workshop
< 1273192069 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It says 'verk' means 'plant' and 'stedet' means 'instead'.
< 1273192083 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i thought `translate used google translate
< 1273192086 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So maybe it's a plant instead of being a workshop.
< 1273192096 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's almost nonsense
< 1273192097 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate verk, sted
< 1273192099 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plant, location
< 1273192107 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate verk, stedet
< 1273192109 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :works, rather than
< 1273192110 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate i stedet
< 1273192112 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead
< 1273192122 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1273192131 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't mean instead unless you prepend "i"
< 1273192145 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does 'stedet' just mean 'stead', then?
< 1273192152 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it does.
< 1273192153 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the place
< 1273192183 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :verk has several meanings
< 1273192198 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :work, plant, pain
< 1273192217 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate tannverk
< 1273192221 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :toothache
< 1273192228 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate vannverk
< 1273192232 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :waterworks
< 1273192239 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate livsverk
< 1273192243 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :life&#39;s work
< 1273192276 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jatsu tsappari dikkari dallan tittari tillan titstan dulla, dipidapi dallaa ruppati rupiran kurikan kukka ja kirikan kuu.
< 1273192288 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finnish?
< 1273192296 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finnish-style gibberish.
< 1273192364 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I notice that that part doesn't contain "s" except as part of "ts".
< 1273192396 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't know ts- in the beginning of words was allowed in finnish
< 1273192406 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then it _is_ gibberish, you say
< 1273192407 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it's not.
< 1273192440 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man. That looks a lot like Japanese-style jibberish.
< 1273192452 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, it does.
< 1273192476 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"titstan" isn't possible in Japanese, but I think the rest is.
< 1273192479 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, *actual Finnish* looks a lot like Japanese-style jibberish. :P
< 1273192483 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they _do_ have a bit similar phonology, with lots of cv syllables...
< 1273192502 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: "l" is not a phoneme in Japanese.
< 1273192507 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right.
< 1273192543 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1273192737 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least this is an opportunity to load some old music onto my N1
< 1273192760 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{.iatsutsapa ri di ka ri da lantita ri ti lantitstandula di pi da pi da la ru pa ti ri pi rankuri kankuka .ia kiri kanku}
< 1273192804 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er,
< 1273192807 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{.iatsutsapa ri di ka ri da lantita ri ti lantitstandula di pi da pi da la ru pa ti ri pi rankuri kankuka .ia ki ri kanku}
< 1273192834 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders loading his oversized MIDI collection onto the N1`
< 1273192835 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :N1
< 1273192837 0 :Slereah!~nigger@ANantes-259-1-86-31.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273192839 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ia ia, shub niggurath
< 1273193247 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1273193718 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1273195049 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1273195076 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273195077 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-34-17-217.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273195139 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1273195757 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-34-17-217.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273196644 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Programming Contest problem I made: http://pastie.org/949412
< 1273196774 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while cat $somefilename | read -n 1 somechar; do
< 1273196803 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it feels unintuitive to me that that should actually give a different character on each iteration
< 1273196817 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't actually check it
< 1273196831 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.>
< 1273196851 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe cat $somefilename | while read -n 1 somechar; do
< 1273196861 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that is possible
< 1273196877 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be
< 1273196903 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're right
< 1273196907 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me send a message
< 1273196988 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sent, hopefully anyone having trouble reads it
< 1273197017 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should still check it, i'm not an expert on shell programming
< 1273197023 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did
< 1273197034 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo@ubuntu:~$ echo "Hello" | while read -n 1 h; do echo -e $h; done
< 1273197035 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :H
< 1273197035 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e
< 1273197035 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :l
< 1273197035 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :l
< 1273197035 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o
< 1273197047 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the other way just did an infinite loop
< 1273197055 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of nothingness
< 1273197064 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tyvm
< 1273197070 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're welcome
< 1273201236 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1273201547 0 :kwertii!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: kwertii
< 1273201779 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1273202141 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273202836 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273205849 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273205874 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#"(.`,/
< 1273205922 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't say
< 1273205944 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't say
< 1273205978 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See if you can figure out its purpose and if you can make a shorter one that is still only symbol (without alnum)?
< 1273206008 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't even know the language.
< 1273206107 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is something on Anarchy Golf!
< 1273206293 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't really go there, i'm not so interested in golfing
< 1273206310 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK
< 1273206377 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you know my "Check for brainwave activity" problem? Well, I didn't win. I got it down to 12 bytes before post-mortem.
< 1273206397 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, I remember it. Linky?
< 1273206411 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?Check+for+brainwave+activity
< 1273206427 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION screams in faux horror at the .rb
< 1273206456 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why?
< 1273206488 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretending that I'm horrified at Ruby
< 1273206497 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it's just printing a string?
< 1273206506 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And how does /*/g*/e*|tac work exactly?
< 1273206530 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It it dependent on the files on the computer. On other computers it might not work.
< 1273206567 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/*/g*/e* expands to /usr/games/espdiff but there is a blank line at the top of output, so tac command will fix that
< 1273206685 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I didn't know is that an input would also do..... but now I learned
< 1273206701 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's espdiff?
< 1273206775 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't actually know what it was either, at first. But I looked in the files and found that file on the Anarchy Golf server, so I figured it out.
< 1273206798 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It says it is a program to do whatever the user wants, but actually it just delays and then tells you there is no brainwave activity detected.
< 1273206816 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The deep scan mode just makes it delay longer.
< 1273206828 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a shell script, you can look it up easily in Anarchy Golf server
< 1273206884 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know why someone wrote this program, but they did!
< 1273207041 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1273207110 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a question about Linux: If you use dd to copy a DVD device file to a normal file, will the file be usable as a ISO file?
< 1273207133 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1273207151 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though you may want to use ddrescue instead.
< 1273207171 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why?
< 1273207177 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dd just craps out on errors. ddrescue goes crazy and gets the data off the disc anyways.
< 1273207202 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK
< 1273207391 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you record a CD/DVD, can you put the name of the device file instead of the ISO file, will that work?
< 1273207756 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How difficult is it to program a window manager that you can push some key combinations to send signal to the currently program, such as wm-pagedown for SIGUSR1, wm-pageup for SIGUSR2, wm-end for SIGTERM, wm-pause for SIGSTOP, etc?
< 1273207927 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And wm-home would be for SIGHUP and wm-delete for SIGKILL.
< 1273208172 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... Hmm. I suppose you *could* use the device file instead of an ISO file on disc.
< 1273208193 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that window manager feature would be *pretty darned* hard to do.
< 1273208206 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You see, the window manager is not aware of PIDs.
< 1273208287 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, OK. So that's why other window managers won't do that, it is because of not aware of PIDs. But how does it sent SIGWINCH signal correctly?
< 1273208303 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SIGWINCH?
< 1273208330 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIGWINCH
< 1273208332 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, that. The window manager doesn't.
< 1273208351 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The *terminal emulator* sends that signal.
< 1273208368 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the terminal emulator does that in response to a resizing *message* from X11.
< 1273208389 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK
< 1273208401 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that's how it works.
< 1273208404 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION loves how Ruby has 10 million different ways to do almost, but not quite, the exact same thing, for each value of thing.
< 1273208448 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, so that's how Ruby works.
< 1273208756 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How to messages work in X, is it like a event loop?
< 1273208783 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. It might... Actually be called an "event".
< 1273208797 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only vaguely know the structure of X.
< 1273208800 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There be deep magic in there.
< 1273208962 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw something about _NET_WM_PID it says it is used for killing processes
< 1273208982 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm.
< 1273209061 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It says it can use that to check the PID for the client owning this window
< 1273209085 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm.
< 1273209229 0 :bsmntbombdood!~gavin@97-118-202-110.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273209953 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night
< 1273210515 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273211406 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273211835 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: If your character is a ettercap and you fall down and break all of your eyes, how many glasses do you need?
< 1273213489 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273213546 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273217219 0 :kwertii!~kwertii@ResNet-33-228.resnet.ucsb.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273217237 0 :kwertii!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1273217683 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1273217742 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1273217810 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1273217932 0 :Slereah!~nigger@ANantes-259-1-86-31.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273218683 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1273219199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1273219200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273219329 0 :myndzi\!myndzi@tengototen.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273219407 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1273219907 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-198.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273222318 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273222551 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1273225248 0 :adam_d!~Adam@cpc2-acto6-0-0-cust48.brnt.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273228149 0 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273228648 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273229299 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1273229616 0 :cal153!~cal@c-24-4-207-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273229671 0 :cheater3!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1273231645 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@ix.ceid.upatras.gr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273232194 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~522ceedd@gateway/web/freenode/x-beixejybigizhcav JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273233020 0 :P4!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: has just left his bouncer
< 1273233090 0 :CT|P4!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host
< 1273233090 0 :CT|P4!p4@unaffiliated/p4 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273233090 0 :CT|P4!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :P4
< 1273234312 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1273237206 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273239325 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273239667 0 :cheater2!~cheater@ip-80-226-225-193.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273240272 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have some english language related questions and my native english speakers in MSN aren't logged in.
< 1273240284 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess I will ask here... :-)
< 1273240428 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does "Bees have to survive. This translates to having complex social procedures" make any sense in english? Especially the "translates to" part, does it mean "means"? Or is it a bad translation from Greek?
< 1273241079 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1273241108 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it's okay but i'm not a native speaker
< 1273241343 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? and you are not Greek right? because that might be the reason this sounds good to you... ;-)
< 1273241379 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Polish
< 1273241404 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok great.
< 1273241408 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hope it's correct then
< 1273242315 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That looks... Weird.
< 1273242370 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ď‚Î·Î±Ď„?
< 1273242372 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooops
< 1273242376 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what looks weird?
< 1273242933 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Bees have to survive. This translates to having complex social procedures."
< 1273242955 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd probably write that as something like "In order to survive, bees have complex social procedures."
< 1273243573 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes i know. plus the sentence is completelly made up for the purpose of bringing up my point. anyway I found an american and asked him. i changed it to "involves"
< 1273243655 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though, "translates to" is a perfectly valid English phrase, even used as "implies" or "means".
< 1273243669 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just looks weird in this context.
< 1273243716 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok then i'll keep it in mind. :-) don't mind the context.
< 1273243837 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273243894 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: you can still help.
< 1273243900 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The answer to this problem passes through RSS feeds and personalized micro sites."
< 1273243907 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"passes"
< 1273243914 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crap or not?
< 1273243993 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug*
< 1273244050 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, what does it mean?
< 1273244068 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks weird to _me_, but i'm a norwegian :)
< 1273244070 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that RSS feeds are part of the solution
< 1273244080 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, i don't think that's reasonable
< 1273244092 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good. neither do i
< 1273244094 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-)
< 1273244117 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem is partially solved by RSS feeds etc... ???
< 1273244120 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try "involves"
< 1273244135 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or that
< 1273244172 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok thanks.
< 1273244222 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yours is more direct, so probably better
< 1273244368 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes the mezzacotta comic is particularly gruesome today
< 1273244410 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION votes it fully baked, for the first time in months probably
< 1273244566 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273244636 0 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-156-182.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273245313 0 :Patashu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: MSN = Patashu@hotmail.com , AIM = Patashu0 , YIM = Patashu2
< 1273245535 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273245888 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :byeeee
< 1273245895 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1273245934 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273246252 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1273246434 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1273247136 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1273248615 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273248960 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273248970 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1273249000 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273249712 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1273250007 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273250457 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving...
< 1273250470 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273250858 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1273251291 0 :ale__!~ale@ppp-166-94.21-151.libero.it JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273251947 0 :ale__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Sto andando via
< 1273252127 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273252155 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273252333 0 :nooga!~nooga@c154-29.icpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273252357 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga!
< 1273253849 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover!
< 1273253930 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You took your bloody time!
< 1273255441 0 :P4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which esoteric langue is the fastest in md5 generation? (http://crazy-tronners.com/P4/very/bad/md5-test?reset)
< 1273255693 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1273255733 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273257801 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273258383 0 :nooga!~nooga@c154-29.icpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273259139 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273259205 0 :nooga!~nooga@c154-29.icpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273259275 0 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273259275 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273259505 0 :nooga!~nooga@c154-29.icpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273259688 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover!
< 1273259908 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:KB_Japanese.svg This is an awful keyboard layout. *Awful*.
< 1273259974 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially when you consider that Japanese only needs some 15 keys to be input.
< 1273260062 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"kstnhmyrwaiueo" suffices.
< 1273260115 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, wait, that's missing diacritics.
< 1273260139 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 keys for those, another for small-kanji. 18 keys, short punctuation.
< 1273260415 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my frient has a laptop with such kbd
< 1273260966 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are Chinese keyboards like?
< 1273261153 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which Chinese script?
< 1273261213 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's Simplified Chinese, Traditional Chinese, and (small niche) Cryllic.
< 1273261270 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Keyboard_layout_Chinese_Traditional.png Anyways. This is a common layout in Taiwan.
< 1273261284 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note the 4 different supported input methods.
< 1273261327 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273261356 0 :nooga!~nooga@c154-29.icpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273261364 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga!
< 1273261377 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273261385 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How rude.
< 1273261412 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also: yes, keyboard layouts are not standardised in the Sinitic languages.
< 1273261426 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :???
< 1273261448 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's like 20 different input methods.
< 1273261460 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, my client must have dropped out while you were talking.
< 1273261477 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of them based on trying to input the structure of the characters, a few of them based on pronounciation.
< 1273261507 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(pinyin and zhuyin for Mandarin, jyutping for Cantonese, pretty much structural only for *any* other Sinitic language)
< 1273261566 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sinitic?
< 1273261566 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(... With the exception of Dungan, which is written with Cyrillic.)
< 1273261598 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The family of languages deriving from Old Chinese.
< 1273261623 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or the common ancestor of Old Chinese and Bai, if one includes that language in the family as well.
< 1273261670 0 :nooga!~nooga@c154-29.icpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273261680 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga!
< 1273261748 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All of the Sinitic languages but Dungan and Bai are commonly written with a Chinese script. Bai can still be written with such a script, but Dungan cannot, do to the large number of Russian loan words in the language.
< 1273261787 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, if you buy the official line of the PROC, these are all dialects of the same language.
< 1273261794 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somehow.
< 1273261805 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linguistics sometimes seems interesting.
< 1273262086 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I hate having to *learn* languages.
< 1273262132 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Language education is commonly terrible.
< 1273262158 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dropped French and German, though I still do Latin.
< 1273262188 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Primarily because it's taught differently, and the curriculum is less boring.
< 1273262441 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1273262463 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just realised that that seems absurd.
< 1273262463 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273262480 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really. Latin is a fascinating language.
< 1273262483 0 :nooga!~nooga@c154-29.icpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273262497 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pity it's not used much as an actual language.
< 1273262514 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Indeed. And I can now grasp Perligata, so it's relevant to esolangs!
< 1273262516 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(rather than a source of neologisms or ancient-looking flair)
< 1273262575 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The neologisms are fun, too.
< 1273262601 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still say "praeterition" and get a warm, fuzzy feeling when people ask me what it means.
< 1273262634 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quick, make harder neologisms!
< 1273262663 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION runs to fetch textbook
< 1273262666 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hayaku, tsukau harder shingoisms!
< 1273262708 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm, English's acceptance of neologisms.
< 1273262741 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scription? Too obvious...
< 1273262742 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273262753 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quietion.
< 1273262772 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It both sounds wrong and is a false friend!
< 1273262778 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Profection.
< 1273262784 0 :nooga!~nooga@c154-29.icpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273262790 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1273262813 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like that one. I must remember to use it
< 1273262838 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Which party will best aid the profection of our nation?"
< 1273262863 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pervention.
< 1273262891 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nescition!
< 1273263018 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah, all of the "I"s are already words.
< 1273263051 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conspection!
< 1273263070 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Concursion!
< 1273263088 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Already a word...
< 1273263362 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My laptop's dead.
< 1273263376 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION plays Funeral March
< 1273263391 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION burys Sgeo's laptop
< 1273263414 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it either needs a new
< 1273263448 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Power cord, or um... the hole for the power cord needs to be fixed somehow.
< 1273263490 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit late now.
< 1273263494 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just buried it.
< 1273263989 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273264003 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does he do that?
< 1273264023 0 :nooga!~nooga@c154-29.icpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273264054 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273264256 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no way to charge my computer via my phone, is there?
< 1273264269 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seriously doubt it.
< 1273264306 0 :whtspc!~whtspc@g228073.upc-g.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273264319 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your phone's battery will have much less capacity than your laptop's
< 1273264490 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd have my phone hooked up to the charger
< 1273264537 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely the voltages would be different?
< 1273264566 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can charge phones from laptops because USB ports are *designed* to give power to small devices.
< 1273264591 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sup kids
< 1273264617 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo's laptop is broken, and he's running through all sorts of zany schemes to fix it.
< 1273264670 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nutty
< 1273264690 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: my word you have quite the irish name dont you
< 1273264697 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What?
< 1273264705 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"domhnall"
< 1273264711 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you know that?
< 1273264717 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /whois Phantom_Hoover
< 1273264733 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck.
< 1273264738 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say no more.
< 1273264741 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1273264745 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goddamned client.
< 1273264749 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1273264780 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1273264831 0 :whtspc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1273264906 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~m4ltest@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273264913 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /whois Phantom_Hoover
< 1273264925 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :m4|test!
< 1273264928 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know you!
< 1273264933 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you cheeky bastard
< 1273264937 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What?
< 1273264940 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1273264968 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's m4ltest, which I used to test a theme ages ago and is now my other account on my computer.
< 1273264984 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fsck, this is publically logged.
< 1273265017 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever you say
< 1273265039 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I blame oerjan!
< 1273265063 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1273265154 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1273265154 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273265201 0 :nooga!~nooga@c154-29.icpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273265673 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~chatzilla@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273265679 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn irssi.
< 1273265762 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Let us never speak of this again.
< 1273265974 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, does anyone know of a Brainfuck interpreter in an HDL?
< 1273266060 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273266688 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1273267908 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273268303 0 :impomatic!~chatzilla@87.112.36.213.plusnet.ptn-ag1.dyn.plus.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273268306 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi :-)
< 1273268363 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A just received an Altera MAX dev board. Any ideas for a cool project?
< 1273268389 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a programmable logic device, 240 elements and 8 kilobits of memory.
< 1273268507 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://www.clifford.at/bfcpu/bfcpu.html
< 1273269192 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273269199 0 :nooga!~nooga@c154-29.icpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273269525 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273269532 0 :nooga!~nooga@c154-29.icpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273269677 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273269783 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's official. Yesterday, there was unusual trading activity.
< 1273269833 0 :nooga!~nooga@c154-29.icpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273270080 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: Hardware for a non-imperative esolang?
< 1273270104 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like underload processor
< 1273270108 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's wrong with imperative? :-)
< 1273270122 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's what everyone else uses.
< 1273270124 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imperative is boring
< 1273270141 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Underload would be cool.  I wonder if it's possible with only 240 elements
< 1273270150 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just wondering about OISC.
< 1273270186 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OISC is fun, but it's not very esoteric to implement it in hardware.
< 1273270236 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lazy K might be neat.
< 1273270922 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273271501 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to start with something easy though
< 1273271550 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lazy K's about the smallest functional language there is.
< 1273271604 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looking it up
< 1273271867 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hueh
< 1273272098 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're not up to doing Lazy K, perhaps a hardware MARS?
< 1273272113 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: Lazy K is too not-minimal.
< 1273272127 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Namely, it has more than S and K.
< 1273272163 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Write it in Iota or Jot notation.
< 1273272545 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273272610 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273272642 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273272918 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273273491 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273273582 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1273273587 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION assassinates his computer
< 1273273604 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're still here
< 1273273617 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you playing Citadels or something?
< 1273273623 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION delivers Sgeo's power cable
< 1273273631 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Citadels?
< 1273273726 0 :Leonidas!~Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273273727 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273273738 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oerjan.
< 1273273742 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover.
< 1273273784 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION detects no alise
< 1273273801 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise is gone.
< 1273273802 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's Fri.. oh wait, alise has been here on Fridayness
< 1273273818 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You won't be seeing them for a long lime.
< 1273273823 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1273273835 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Imagine a lime.
< 1273273845 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then make it longer.
< 1273273854 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then see alise at the end of it.
< 1273273873 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: don't joke about this, there are serious reasons why alise _could_ disappear.
< 1273273881 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. Sorry.
< 1273273889 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I plead ignorance.
< 1273273891 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why i am worried when e is not here.
< 1273273898 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(on weekends)
< 1273273917 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, long-term non-weekendness is still a possibility?
< 1273273920 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(:(:(
< 1273273921 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very
< 1273273946 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if e's sectioned, things are bad for everyone
< 1273273967 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some reason, I kind of figured that that was off the table
< 1273273973 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh we could hope he's just taking his advice to rest on fridays
< 1273274022 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: why would it be?
< 1273274057 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, because my mind just decided that hey, it's been a while since I thought about it, I'll just forget about it!
< 1273274134 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION assassinates Sgeo's mind
< 1273274178 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders why everyone else always knows more about this than me.
< 1273274238 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: some of it was only told in private channel
< 1273274254 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it hasn't exactly been kept entirely out of #esoteric.
< 1273274254 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1273274312 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :short summary: alise faces the very real possibility of being put in a mental institution
< 1273274324 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Alise-alert | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D
< 1273274326 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, he kind of is there, but only during the week
< 1273274344 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but he's not formally institutionalized yet
< 1273274345 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought he was like 14?
< 1273274348 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or so we hope)
< 1273274350 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yes
< 1273274360 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: He 'goes there voluntarily'. And it's a 'school'.
< 1273274394 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except, he only 'goes voluntarily' because they're threatening to make it non-voluntary otherwise.
< 1273274398 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1273274402 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1273274567 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.9/20100315083431]
< 1273274570 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume that this has happened before.
< 1273274579 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure
< 1273274592 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he was gone for several weeks during the winter
< 1273274618 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We were worried then, too.
< 1273274666 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however there isn't any real reason to be worried _yet_ right now
< 1273274688 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When do we worry?
< 1273274713 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tomorrow, a bit
< 1273274724 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tomorrow, we get nervous. Sunday, we become worried. Monday, we start updating the Alise-missing-count.
< 1273274734 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :next weekend, a lot more
< 1273274736 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Next Friday, we get Agora to declare war.
< 1273274742 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: :D
< 1273274763 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agora?
< 1273274787 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: a nomic that several people here play in.  also the world's oldest.
< 1273274793 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the Nomic of Agora.
< 1273274796 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(started in 1993)
< 1273274823 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I've *always* wanted to play a nomic!
< 1273274847 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION used to play, but doesn't any longer
< 1273275081 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> Also, if you buy the official line of the PROC, these are all dialects of the same language.
< 1273275122 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would be like if a nationalistic EU decided to declare english and german a dialect of the same language
< 1273275149 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps even english and italian
< 1273275180 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're talking about Chinese?
< 1273275183 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1273275195 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PROC = people's republic of china
< 1273275226 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some reason, "PRC" seems more familiar
< 1273275241 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm maybe
< 1273275250 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yeah.
< 1273275257 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :taiwan is always ROC though, i think
< 1273275264 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Nah, "English and German".
< 1273275280 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ?
< 1273275310 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Sinitic languages are more akin to the Germanic languages in the level of relation than the Indoeuropean ones.
< 1273275314 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1273275322 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wasn't sure about that
< 1273275337 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :English is sort of Germanic, isn't it?
< 1273275347 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: *Very* Germanic.
< 1273275383 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: 1500 years ago or so they were the same language
< 1273275397 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Bit more than that.
< 1273275398 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100423140709]
< 1273275422 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I think 1500 years ago is about when mutual intelligibilty completely stopped.
< 1273275425 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: wasn't that about when the anglo-saxon invasion was?
< 1273275469 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: The various Germanic languages had already split off into a handful of related languages before they were actually *written*.
< 1273275485 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i though both english and german descended from saxon
< 1273275499 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm really vague on this though
< 1273275536 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Proto-Germanic split into East, West, and North Germanic.
< 1273275550 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but both english and german are west
< 1273275555 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afair
< 1273275563 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :West Germanic itself split into South Germanic and Anglo-Frisian branches.
< 1273275586 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1273275593 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*thought
< 1273275622 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i may just be confused because Sachsen is a part of modern germany
< 1273275647 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And even back in Old English, English was freaking crazy about its foreign word acquisition.
< 1273275657 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1273275703 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because of things like this, English has several cognates *with itself*.
< 1273275760 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, "shirt" and "skirt" are both cognate.
< 1273275772 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"shirt" native to English, "skirt" borrowed from Old Norse.
< 1273275779 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i knew about that one
< 1273275796 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :skjorte and skjĂ¸rt in norwegian :)
< 1273275811 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Right", "rich", "raj", "regalia", "reign", "royal", and "real" are also all cognate.
< 1273275832 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Germanic, Celtic, Sanskrit, Latin, French, French, Portuguese origin, respectively)
< 1273275920 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION recalls something about ei turning to oi in french, so those two may be from different periods?
< 1273275948 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :English has done that sort of thing a lot.
< 1273275962 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"chef" and "chief" are both from the same word in French.
< 1273275976 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and french itself has done it with latin iirc
< 1273276014 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also "warranty" and "guarantee".
< 1273276015 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :English *loves* cognates.
< 1273276178 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In D&D game I want to have a "Merciful to Gibbering Mouthers" feat! I also want to have a metamagic feat that makes it the components are wasted as normal as if the spell has an effect but the normal effect of the spell is suppressed!
< 1273276294 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: That sounds like the most bizarre metamagic feat ever.
< 1273276307 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, make it so you can fake-out casting a spell?
< 1273276327 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Phantom_Hoover> I blame oerjan! <-- *MWAHAHAHA*
< 1273276360 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Holy fuck he just cast wish. Holy fuck he just cast wish. Oh god what do I do what do I do what do I do"
< 1273276360 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes, I suppose that's one use.
< 1273276366 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1273276369 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, like that.
< 1273276378 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps other uses can be found, too?
< 1273276387 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it lower the spell level?
< 1273276401 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't invent such a feat yet, but I suppose it could.
< 1273276404 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i recall zzo38 plays _weird_ D&D.  almost no fighting and a lot of trickery, i take.
< 1273276425 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so such deception would probably fit right in
< 1273276425 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I play *creative* D&D.
< 1273276434 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We do fights, but in very hilarious ways.
< 1273276445 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Well, you are right about that. My brother likes to fight more than I am, though. I prefer to not fight if I can avoid it.
< 1273276454 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Octopus on the face. :D
< 1273276537 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm also proud of having bowled a giant turtle into an army.
< 1273276567 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No love for Paranoia?
< 1273276573 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1273276620 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The computer would like to remind you that paranoia is a treasonable offense, and encourages your clone to be more paranoid about paranoia in the future.
< 1273276626 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*bang*
< 1273276679 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: null
< 1273276761 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once we did that my brother's character were attack everyone at the same time my character was heal the same guys that were being attacked in this way, and although this combination seem strange, actually this combination worked perfectly in the end. (I also broke the opponent's weapons while they were unconscious)
< 1273277257 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*gnab*
< 1273277290 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gnab...orretni!
< 1273277378 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK
< 1273278001 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1273278007 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It turns out who you thought was the main bad guy(s) is really a
< 1273278011 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :double double agent.
< 1273279150 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I want in D&D is "Break Into Debugger" spell.
< 1273279582 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahah.
< 1273279666 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i would think wanting your D&D playing to resemble the programming you do everyday defeats the spirit of roleplaying in a horrendous way.
< 1273279792 0 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-156-182.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273280259 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1273281338 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: OK, then........
< 1273281462 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, (in the game) I need a tool for drawing large circles on the ground, and also a ring of anti-magic, and...
< 1273281547 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...enough bonus to Diplomacy to use it to beholders.
< 1273282416 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is going to require good timing. (And also zwischenzug. And "iron restraint".)
< 1273282530 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-34-17-217.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273282973 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pulls out his Finnish and reviews.
< 1273283131 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes to Finnish Wikipedia to read about the koirat again.
< 1273283417 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"kojootti"
< 1273283420 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww, what a cute word.
< 1273283744 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/QR8ettwJ
< 1273283801 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: L
< 1273283927 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No
< 1273283938 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/GFwGcCnh
< 1273283969 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww, it was a valid command up there.
< 1273284071 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But in this situation it should be obvious why it is no longer valid?
< 1273284186 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1273284232 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1273284250 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, now I have no idea what command to use next.
< 1273284259 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, last time, L essentially gave a list of valid commands.
< 1273284265 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would expect it to do the same here.
< 1273284443 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/VyKq7ZEM
< 1273284471 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Got it.
< 1273284526 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, how about P and I?
< 1273284567 0 :cheater3!~cheater@ip-80-226-15-130.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273284610 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/KRDYh8pF
< 1273284647 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like S2 is pretty much the only option.
< 1273284674 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate Koira on ihmisen kesyttĂ¤mistĂ¤ elĂ¤imistĂ¤ vanhin.
< 1273284677 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A dog is man&#39;s oldest domesticated animals.
< 1273284715 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops there is &#39; in there.
< 1273284727 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/wVNrMenD
< 1273284754 0 :cheater2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1273284804 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :L
< 1273284884 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/Yq1K66yn
< 1273284907 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1
< 1273285012 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/zFfBLLYY
< 1273285032 0 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273285038 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273285049 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Next time, I'm using RAZOR LEAF and TACKLE.
< 1273285059 0 :aox!~Agent@203.109.165.173 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273285083 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, what the heck was that?
< 1273285107 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know
< 1273285127 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where were you getting this?
< 1273285132 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just made it up.
< 1273285138 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods.
< 1273285141 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It probably contains errors anyways.
< 1273285149 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't properly exist
< 1273285324 0 :fax!~none@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273285338 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can genetic code mutate? if you change one letter of a program it will break.. what about a genetic programming langauge that does not break if you change a tiny bit of it
< 1273285384 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Parts of ordinary computer programs are quite evolvable.
< 1273285387 0 :Patashu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, you need a programming language (and programming) that is highly redundant
< 1273285398 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like the color scheme, the GUI, how often the garbage collector runs, choice of algorithms...
< 1273285399 0 :Patashu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you need mutations described syntactically not on the per letter word
< 1273285428 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If a garbage collector runs every 100 milliseconds, it's not going to break the program if that number is changed to 120.
< 1273285431 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Creature brains were designed so that mutations don't become syntax errors
< 1273285442 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, unless the program's time sensitive
< 1273285448 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Creature brains?
< 1273285452 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: hmm, true.
< 1273285465 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does the topic say Alise-alert
< 1273285474 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, wish to explain Creature brains?
< 1273285489 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know very little about Creature brains.
< 1273285501 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: because it is weekend and e is not here
< 1273285512 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that they're neural nets.
< 1273285520 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was e supposed to come on this weekend?
< 1273285545 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: i think so.  i didn't recall anything about _not_ coming.
< 1273285575 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Creatures is a game [series] with Artificial Life
< 1273285590 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`creatures What?
< 1273285592 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The brains have lobes, containing neurons, and dendrites, connecting neurons
< 1273285594 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1273285621 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The lobes and dendrites have SVRules, rules like "Get value from neuron" "Add 1 to accumulator"
< 1273285624 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or somesuch
< 1273285631 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But at some level, it's easy to mutate, I think
< 1273285647 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But in C3, they don't mutate, so it's a bit of a moot point
< 1273285891 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be fun to make a program that evolves bits of circuitry.
< 1273285907 0 :Patashu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people do that in real life already
< 1273285924 0 :Patashu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's this special kind of circuit that has lots of circuits and randomly mutates its configuration
< 1273285934 0 :Patashu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's used to create circuits to satisfy some requirement
< 1273285944 0 :Patashu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and often it's not obvious how the created circuit actually does its job
< 1273285949 0 :Patashu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just like biological evolution!)
< 1273285957 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to write a program that evolves something
< 1273285957 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that called the Insane FPGA?  :P
< 1273285964 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Tim Tyler wrote about something like that.
< 1273285992 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to lament about how Tim Tyler's name is nowhere on cell-auto.com, but actually it is.
< 1273286129 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well now you can't, because lament's not here!
< 1273286155 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION slips back under rock
< 1273287241 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273287286 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273287446 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION crawls out from under rock
< 1273287453 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: you might try again now
< 1273287458 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION crawls back
< 1273287479 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to lament about how Tim Tyler's name is nowhere on cell-auto.com, but actually it is.
< 1273287486 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There, did I succeed in lamenting that time?
< 1273287498 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully we'll soon find out
< 1273287798 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders what to do next.
< 1273287924 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could take up quilting
< 1273287996 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll suddenly decide that I do understand Plash after all, and thus write a wiki using it.
< 1273288035 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you'll discover you were wrong, but only after making a completely hilarious site
< 1273288101 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION listens to John Powell's "This Is Berk".
< 1273288122 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope I'm spreading my tweets over sufficiently many IRC channels.  :P
< 1273288123 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :curses, foiled again
< 1273288155 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You were foiled by my listening to "This Is Berk"?
< 1273288160 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends.  how many have banned you so far?
< 1273288169 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :None!
< 1273288172 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes.  it is way outside my expertise.
< 1273288193 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you are not trying hard enough.
< 1273288227 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay.
< 1273288235 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to SSH to zbasu.net.
< 1273288290 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION fails after trying four different usernames.
< 1273288305 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googletects a lojban word
< 1273288329 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION resets its root password.
< 1273288356 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION moves his Chrome window so that he can see some of iTunes.
< 1273288376 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sips some water
< 1273288473 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gets thirsty.
< 1273288497 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION talks about himself in the third person
< 1273288497 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION resets its non-root password and deletes its root password, then ensures that non-root has sudo access before exiting.
< 1273288502 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION logs in as non-root.
< 1273288525 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION does the same, but in a manner that makes it impossible to tell what set of pronouns is being used.
< 1273288554 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see... I need apache.
< 1273288572 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a helper script.
< 1273288590 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks up who his DNS is run by.
< 1273288628 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slicehost.
< 1273288668 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to remember why he didn't switch to Linode.
< 1273288688 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders whether he ever got that refund for canceling within the first seven days.
< 1273288694 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's how you spell "canceling".
< 1273288740 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`define canceling
< 1273288742 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* canceled - Alternative spelling of cancelled; Alternative spelling of cancelled \        [22]en.wiktionary.org/wiki/canceled \      * To prevent further use of a printing plate after an edition has been printed, the artist sometimes "cancels" the plate by X-ing it out or in some other way defacing it. Sometimes cancellation
< 1273288770 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION finishes listening to Aleksi Aubry-Carlson's "Battle Music" and begins listening to Marc Russo's "Central Park Sunday".
< 1273288783 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As you can tell, I like listening to artists whose names are people's names.
< 1273288800 0 :ChanServ!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+o oerjan
< 1273288807 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh oh.
< 1273288823 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would listen to Modest Mouse, but unfortunately "Modest" isn't generally used as a first name.
< 1273288823 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I THINK THAT'S QUITE ENOUGH OF THAT
< 1273288829 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aiee!
< 1273288833 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+b *!*Warrigal@*.midsouth.biz.rr.com
< 1273288833 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a nickname
< 1273288868 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, what did uorygl do?
< 1273288888 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EXCESSIVE TWEETING
< 1273288908 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :-b *!*Warrigal@*.midsouth.biz.rr.com
< 1273288950 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :-o oerjan
< 1273288952 0 :uorygl!~Warrigal@rrcs-70-63-156-144.midsouth.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273288968 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel so much better now that I've been kickbanned.
< 1273289019 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of these days i'll get to use ops for something actually serious
< 1273289039 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: you mean you wouldn't listen to Modest Mussorgsky either?
< 1273289171 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I might, now that you've asked.
< 1273289196 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I'd listen to that guy, but probably not much.
< 1273289216 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would you listen to Eliezer?
< 1273289227 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i discovered on wikipedia yesterday there was actually an Alexandru Robot
< 1273289232 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I'd listen to an Eliezer.
< 1273289249 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alas, it was not his original name
< 1273289279 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.  Now I don't think I would listen to him.
< 1273289331 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well he was a poet not a musician
< 1273289363 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, I think he was a musician.
< 1273289385 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are we talking about the same person
< 1273289398 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not if I'm talking about a musician and you're talking about a non-musician poet.
< 1273289420 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you're talking about Alexandru Robot and I'm talking about Modest Muss . . . .
< 1273289439 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cackles evilly
< 1273289470 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my plan to confuse you by not mentioning which lines i'm replying to has succeeded
< 1273289482 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :took long enough though
< 1273289515 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you really want to cause me sorrow, then refuse to teach me category theory.
< 1273289523 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay
< 1273289540 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, is a colimit like a limit except that the functors of the cone all go to the same object rather than all coming from the same object?
< 1273289556 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all arrows are reversed yeah
< 1273289560 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the dual concept
< 1273289579 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods.
< 1273289600 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me see if I can extend what I know of limits to colimits.
< 1273289641 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically, a colimit is a limit in the dual category
< 1273289660 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's pretty clear what the dual category is.
< 1273289684 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do colimits involve covariant or contravariant functors?
< 1273289748 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess a contravariant functor is just a covariant functor with one of the categories dualized, so...
< 1273289811 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if a limit in a dual category is a covariant functor, then the colimit is contravariant
< 1273289850 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-dual, just confusing there
< 1273289869 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess for all this understanding of limits I have, I don't know which part of it "the limit" is.  :P
< 1273289896 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it the cone?  The cone's domain?  The... I don't know what else it could be.
< 1273289898 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i'm not much used to thinking of limits as functors really, although i _think_ i know how they are
< 1273289929 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was under the impression that limits were *of* functors.
< 1273289953 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :functors from a category of diagrams iirc
< 1273289984 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm...
< 1273290005 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here we go.  "A limit of the diagram F : J -> C is a cone (L, Ď†) to F such that . . ."
< 1273290026 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the limit is probably itself a functor from the diagram to Hom(-, O) where O is the object we also call the limit
< 1273290096 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically you need both the limit object and arrows from the original diagram's objects to it
< 1273290117 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm perhaps a cone is this thing i mean
< 1273290135 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand this category theory stuff
< 1273290148 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: I didn't, either, but then somebody taught me, and then I did.
< 1273290253 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know _that_ much category theory myself
< 1273290273 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just mostly learned what i needed to know
< 1273290324 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and things like limits weren't necessarily defined in the most abstract way possible, i don't really recall cones there
< 1273290340 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much category theory did you need to know, and why did you need to know it?
< 1273290347 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is not enough use of category theory to make it easy to learn
< 1273290348 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"where she was released on her own recognizance."
< 1273290349 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF?
< 1273290355 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.1010wins.com/Cops-Say-Teens-Planned-Attack-at-Connetquot-High/6997999
< 1273290360 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the real uses of category theory are probably ridiculously advanced
< 1273290366 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i did take homological algebra
< 1273290371 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it is difficult to pick it up if you are a novice
< 1273290378 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and read a book on algebraic topology
< 1273290402 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there were bits and pieces in other places probably
< 1273290420 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't know any uses of category theory.  :P
< 1273290481 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :homological algebra is a main use of it, Saunders Maclane invented category theory for it i think
< 1273290494 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, to learn what I know about category theory, I had to know what a set is, and what a function is.  I think that's pretty much it.
< 1273290598 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :algebra homomorphisms and linear transformations are important examples
< 1273290616 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the latter is a special case of the former)
< 1273290678 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION suddenly realizes that he's tired.
< 1273290704 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darn it, now how will I figure out what colimits look like?
< 1273290739 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like limits, except the colimit is on the other side :)
< 1273290806 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm
< 1273290837 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suddenly feel like learning to draw would be a really good idea.
< 1273290859 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm good enough at visualizing abstract stuff; concrete stuff, not so much.
< 1273290875 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah category theory without diagrams is hopeless
< 1273290904 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use mental diagrams.
< 1273290910 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're more difficult but more powerful, too.
< 1273290945 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the point is some proofs have more arrows than you can reasonably hold in your head
< 1273290966 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I will stare at them until I can hold them all in my head.
< 1273290971 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless there are, like, hundreds.
< 1273290984 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In which case I shall run away with my tail between my legs.
< 1273291021 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have heard short-term memory only has room for about 7 items
< 1273291059 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That can be expanded with practice.
< 1273291955 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1273292669 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273295828 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273295829 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1273296736 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273300052 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273300062 0 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273300092 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1273300107 0 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273300508 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1273301778 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273302590 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Night all
< 1273302695 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night
< 1273305599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1273305600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273305734 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1273305771 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1273306268 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal
< 1273306660 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273307048 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1273307571 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273307984 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273309555 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I am leaving. You are about to explode.
< 1273309937 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~chatzilla@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273310210 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1273312440 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273312876 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are there all these people with "wikipedia" in their hot names?
< 1273312881 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/hot/host/
< 1273313969 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273314064 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273315843 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273316190 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273316819 0 :alise!~alise@212.183.140.100 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273316834 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*tap tap tap*
< 1273316837 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this thing on?
< 1273316840 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :///FEEDBACK
< 1273316846 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :///static
< 1273316860 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mrrf unt rffp krrngk rrt, rrrr///FEEDBACK
< 1273316865 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello? ...There.
< 1273316868 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dispatch #xkcd.
< 1273316873 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, No. xkcd.
< 1273316881 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alert officially de-classified.
< 1273316924 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:20:33 --- mode: oerjan set +b *!*Warrigal@*.midsouth.biz.rr.com
< 1273316925 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:20:33 --- kick: uorygl was kicked by oerjan (uorygl)
< 1273316926 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh my.
< 1273317026 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:01:16 <Phantom_Hoover> Why are there all these people with "wikipedia" in their hot names?
< 1273317030 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because Wikipedia is tooootally hot
< 1273317162 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273317201 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273317237 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:18:17 <nooga> I see Alise's school hours
< 1273317237 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1273317437 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:50:15 <pikhq> Yes. My thoughts were more along the lines of making punctuation just be a very, very short way of writing some sort of word or phrase that should be said in various places. For instance, "foo, bar, qux quuxy." would be read as "foo comma bar comma qux quuxy stop".
< 1273317439 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :' is pronounced h in lojban
< 1273317498 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:47:46 <fizzie> Not even erotic Core War fanfics? How strange.
< 1273317502 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd have to be vore!
< 1273317541 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"As eras1b2v3 slowly ate at every single bit of standstill, it moaned by copying a few bits after it in the tape and wriggling along... but eras1b2v3 was too fast for it, and soon it was completely consumed."
< 1273317545 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahem.
< 1273317644 0 :Leonidas_!~Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273317931 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1273317934 0 :cheater3!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Write error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273317955 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:39:37 <pikhq> dd just craps out on errors. ddrescue goes crazy and gets the data off the disc anyways.
< 1273317957 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reminds me of cdparanoia
< 1273317959 0 :cheater3!~cheater@ip-80-226-15-130.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273318014 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:18:10 <Oranjer> Malcolm Gladwell has some theories in his book Outliers, nooga
< 1273318016 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a theory that malcom gladwell is a charlatan
< 1273318021 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i need 10,000 hours to confirm it...
< 1273318098 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:50:50 <nooga> ah, there's nothing better than setting your alarm clock in cron
< 1273318102 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from not setting your alarm clock at all
< 1273318330 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: hey honey
< 1273318335 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::|
< 1273318339 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1273318351 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :being called honey is possibly the biggest motivation so far to change my nick back :D
< 1273318364 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a standard greeting from me
< 1273318395 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh so I can't escape no matter what i do :D
< 1273318436 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, UK election results: All the votes have been counted, and we still don't know who's won.
< 1273318444 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact nobody's won. State of complete anarchy. Have fun.
< 1273318451 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I gather this is how it works.)
< 1273318475 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: as i posted on facebook, perhaps a better question to ask is "who lost?"
< 1273318486 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Society :P
< 1273318493 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no idea why i did that highlight there)
< 1273318502 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... i was thinking "everyone", but yes
< 1273318529 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how everybody was so excited about the Lib Dems that they forgot to vote for them entirely.
< 1273318544 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, they can't win anyway, right? Neither can the Conservatives :P
< 1273318568 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you did notice that they had a higher popular vote, and a higher popular vote %age than in 2005, yes?
< 1273318610 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but admittedly, yes, i think that a lot of the people who wanted to vote lib dem ended up not doing so, because of tactical voting
< 1273318613 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but it's still nowhere near what everyone was raving about.
< 1273318623 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some good that tactical voting did :-)
< 1273318632 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lib dem support dropped between debate 1 and debate 3
< 1273318683 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least we've finally got a nice American Presidential election system
< 1273318694 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: i had something shived through my door wednesday evening saying "in 71 constituencies (yours is one of them), the best way to keep the tories out is to vote labour"
< 1273318717 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it kept everybody out!
< 1273318720 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which might actually be an improvement...
< 1273318769 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that + similar pushes from the tories ("vote clegg, get brown") meant that those who wanted to vote lib dem switched to keep $CHOSEN_ENEMY out
< 1273318816 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my mother did very strongly consider voting labour to stop the tories here
< 1273318818 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :These people are tarnishing the good name of rational tactical voting :P
< 1273318823 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1273318837 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I was Russell O'Connor, I would be advocating stochastic elections.
< 1273318838 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that kinda backfired though
< 1273318839 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because
< 1273318850 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :labour came 3rd here (Bristol North West)
< 1273318854 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(where tactical voting becomes "honest" voting)
< 1273318884 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The stocastic voting system is the only voting system that gives proportional representation, local representatives, and where stratigic voting is never advantageous."
< 1273318885 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i do wonder if, had there not been such a late push from labour, the lib dems would've taken it
< 1273318919 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what sort of voting system i would like to see has been on my mind the last couple of days
< 1273318935 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the one hand, people voted for national reasons
< 1273318942 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but on the other, some people voted for local reasons
< 1273318973 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stochastic election system:
< 1273318976 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[I propose the following election system for Canada. In each riding, ballots cast are counted. A random candidate is selected with a distribution proportional to the number of votes for each candidate. The selected candidate wins the seat.
< 1273318977 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Random number generation can be done by having every candidate select a number between 1 and n (the number of votes cast). The selected numbers are summed modulo n, and the result is used to select the winner.
< 1273318977 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, I think it is fair for the Marxist-Leninist Party to get one seat in Parliament once every 100 years.]]
< 1273318977 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of my friends voted conservative over lib dem because of local issues
< 1273318983 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Results &c:
< 1273318986 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://r6.ca/blog/20060122T172700Z.html
< 1273318986 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://r6.ca/blog/20060217T201200Z.html
< 1273318989 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://r6.ca/blog/20081016T174811Z.html
< 1273318996 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://r6.ca/blog/20081107T061447Z.html
< 1273319001 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haahah
< 1273319009 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pineapple: no, I don't think you understand; he is serious
< 1273319032 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... FPTP but, in each constituency, the %age vote is the chance that the candidate wins that seat?
< 1273319044 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually statistically it is perfectly benign and actually gives really good properties such that voting as you really want is the best possible strategy and such, but most people are probably too scared of "randomness" to like it
< 1273319059 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pineapple: yep
< 1273319078 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can see many people hating that idea with a passion
< 1273319091 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[This is only one example of the results of a stochastic election. Because of the stochastic nature of the election process, actual results may differ.
< 1273319092 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Canada’s election process, it is sometimes advantageous to not vote for one’s preferred candidate. The stochastic election system is the only system in which it always best to vote for your preferred candidate. Therefore if the 2006 election were actually using a stochastic election system, people would be allowed to vote for their true preferences. The outcome could be somewhat different than what this simulation illustrates.]]
< 1273319101 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pineapple: Yes; most people do not really understand randomness.
< 1273319108 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"why the fuck would i want the prime minister to be decided by a dice roll???"
< 1273319117 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O'Connor's radical but he's always interesting.
< 1273319120 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they miss the point
< 1273319123 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now if only he posted to his blog more.
< 1273319124 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want really random
< 1273319127 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you use only a few dice
< 1273319130 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :preferably 1
< 1273319134 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1273319141 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just pull the prime minister out of a hat
< 1273319142 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this would be like rolling 650 imprefect dice
< 1273319145 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not his name; the prime minister himself)
< 1273319149 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahah
< 1273319158 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would have to be a very big hat.
< 1273319163 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite
< 1273319163 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's the price we have to pay for democracy
< 1273319168 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... no, i like this idea
< 1273319179 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you say that this is used in Canada?
< 1273319194 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273319199 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooo
< 1273319204 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[In Canada’s election process, it is sometimes advantageous to not vote for one’s preferred candidate. The stochastic election system is the only system in which it always best to vote for your preferred candidate. Therefore if the 2008 election were actually using a stochastic election system, people would be allowed to vote for their true preferences. The outcome could be somewhat different than what this simulation illustrates.]]
< 1273319209 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that Russell O'Connor is Canadian
< 1273319212 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaah, ok
< 1273319213 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so obviously he proposes this for Canada
< 1273319220 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see
< 1273319230 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn, he's progressive
< 1273319239 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he simulates the results as if things were stochastic. Although of course his results are not accurate, because it will use tactical votes, which would happen less in a stochastic system (only idiots would do them because they would not help at all)
< 1273319254 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pineapple: He's also an anarchist; I'm not sure how those two things gel together but there you go.
< 1273319260 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's elect our no government.
< 1273319263 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know the one thing this would do if applied here?
< 1273319270 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would make no-one safe
< 1273319277 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not cabinet members
< 1273319281 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would backfire horribly as most people wouldn't believe that tactical votes wouldn't work :-D
< 1273319290 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps we'd get the entire in a few hundred years.
< 1273319294 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the Speaker of the house (see results for Buckingham)
< 1273319303 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even the party leaders!
< 1273319321 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT EVEN THE CITIZENS
< 1273319335 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Dear First Last,
< 1273319346 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We are writing to inform you that you have not been elected in the recent stochastic citizen elections.
< 1273319352 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodbye.
< 1273319359 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yours sincerely,
< 1273319361 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Robot Evilus"
< 1273319363 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i so hope that someone does a simulation based on our election results
< 1273319366 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<bomb goes off>
< 1273319382 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pineapple: Ask him to :P he already has the code, and Canada shares our system
< 1273319385 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :r.oconnor@cs.ru.nl
< 1273319408 0 :yiyus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1273319582 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-17-138.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273319617 0 :yiyus!1242712427@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273319645 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273319688 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273319767 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1273319783 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Orq.
< 1273319858 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise!
< 1273319914 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ghostly vacuum cleaner!
< 1273319972 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why did you replace your wiki user page with Gone? ;|
< 1273319974 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*:|
< 1273319977 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WERE YOU RUNNING AWAY FROM ME
< 1273319980 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You cannot deny it.
< 1273320073 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, he silences.
< 1273320176 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I was reading the stuff that you said why I was gone.
< 1273320182 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/why/while/
< 1273320211 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I could ask you why you have two wiki accounts.
< 1273320334 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You were gone for an entire day :P
< 1273320334 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I have more like three or four...
< 1273320359 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I mean this morning.
< 1273320407 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And when I was your age I only had one wiki account!
< 1273320413 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a darned whippersnapper.
< 1273320416 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A second hand one which smelt funny!
< 1273320424 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And didn't quite fit!
< 1273320441 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway I just forget my passwords, or start disliking the names, usually.
< 1273320442 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I made the first account when I was 12 or 13.
< 1273320442 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And had suspicious stains!
< 1273320498 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, the wiki *really* needs basic stuff like account creation logs.
< 1273320498 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh.
< 1273320498 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC it doesn't even have cite.
< 1273320520 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's done us well since 2005; if we were to change the software, I'd say we should even move off MediaWiki to something simpler.
< 1273320522 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Considering we use perhaps 30% of its features.
< 1273320685 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: newer versions of mediawiki log account creation
< 1273320685 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like... 1.15
< 1273320685 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which has been the current stable version for a while)
< 1273320685 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can get it on older versions, it just doesn't come by default.
< 1273320890 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1273320891 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1273320891 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1273320902 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does *.net *.split mean?
< 1273320908 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Net split.
< 1273320916 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When two servers in the network lose their connection to each other.
< 1273320922 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the *.?
< 1273320932 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just to make it work with the syntax of IRC.
< 1273320933 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think.
< 1273320939 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It used to be (server1 server2).
< 1273320942 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess they are masking that now.
< 1273320947 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In case you don't know: Everyone on IRC is connected to one server in a network.
< 1273320950 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :These are all connected together.
< 1273320959 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you send a message, it propagates through all the servers, eventually reaching everyone.
< 1273320967 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When two servers lose their connection to each other, messages can obviously not pass between them.
< 1273320981 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the people who your messages reach via the two servers disconnect from your end.
< 1273320986 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From their end, all of us will have disconnected.
< 1273320995 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So we're on the better side of the split; they only have three people, we have everyone else.
< 1273321004 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They should reconnect soon once the split is over.
< 1273321207 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273321207 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273321207 0 :Deewiant!~deewiant@kekkonen.cs.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273321584 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi Deewiant.
< 1273321766 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: the traditional netsplit message shows which servers have split
< 1273321789 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :many networks these days hide which servers have split off in one way or another
< 1273321802 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :freenode does this as of ircd-seven
< 1273322077 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why, I wonder.
< 1273322080 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it a trade secret?
< 1273322103 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't want to know.
< 1273322167 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dun dun DUNNNNNNNNNNNNNN
< 1273322184 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can give away information about the network topology
< 1273322194 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's what *they* tell you.
< 1273322197 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pineapple: gasp
< 1273322199 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which can be used by people to attack the network
< 1273322235 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you really *don't* want to know what the network topology is.
< 1273322246 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1273322274 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Count yourself lucky that you haven't found out.
< 1273322441 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:25:37 <ais523> here's a nice mnemonic: -a looks at the entities, -e looks at the architectures
< 1273322443 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1273322722 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION comes up with a ridiculous idea.
< 1273322748 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it involves the Freenode network topology, just stop.
< 1273322752 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For your own sake.
< 1273322783 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1273322825 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:06:20 <AnMaster> and what do we learn from this? I think one of the things may be "free market is yet again proved not to work"
< 1273322830 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think the FPGA situation is /anywhere near/ a free market.
< 1273322836 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was your ridiculous idea?
< 1273322849 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SECRET
< 1273322855 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah
< 1273322858 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It involves bunnies, tries, and rape-murder.)
< 1273322862 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also trees.
< 1273322866 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't mean to write tries. But it involves tries too.
< 1273322868 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And hash tables.
< 1273322881 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The end result is, surprisingly enough, custard.
< 1273322889 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A hash table that works on bunnies and trees?
< 1273322929 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sssh.
< 1273322957 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever you do, don't try to use it to find out the Freenode network topology.
< 1273323177 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:10:27 <AnMaster> any linux tools for verilog btw?
< 1273323177 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:11:08 <ais523> no free ones that I know of
< 1273323178 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes.
< 1273323185 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iverilog
< 1273323210 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Command not found is useful.
< 1273323237 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:58:18 <coppro> apparently GSOC gave me a free membership in ACM for a year
< 1273323247 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :download EVERYTHING
< 1273323274 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then give it to me.
< 1273323296 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But make sure you don't use anything that tells you the Freenode network topology.
< 1273323337 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:26:21 <Phantom_Hoover> So, are there any decent free CASs?
< 1273323338 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:26:34 <Phantom_Hoover> I've tried Maxima, but I was wondering.
< 1273323338 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:26:51 <pikhq> Maxima's pretty much it.
< 1273323338 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :axiom, too
< 1273323343 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some misc ones like sage
< 1273323344 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all suck
< 1273323347 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pirate mathematica, or w/e
< 1273323352 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w/e?
< 1273323369 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever...
< 1273323402 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w/e = whatever
< 1273325278 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273325349 0 :alise!~alise@212.183.140.35 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273325367 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1273325376 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ping pong...
< 1273325736 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ponggg
< 1273325742 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ping
< 1273325759 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ping
< 1273325760 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong
< 1273325775 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ping esolangs.org
< 1273325776 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong
< 1273325803 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/ping
< 1273325804 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!/bin/bash \ echo pong
< 1273325819 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`/bin/ping
< 1273325820 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1273325823 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`sh /usr/bin/ping
< 1273325824 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1273325826 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`sh /usr/bin/ping 2>&1
< 1273325827 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1273325829 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`sh /bin/ping 2>&1
< 1273325831 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1273325835 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HMM
< 1273325837 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`sh /bin/ping esolangs.org
< 1273325837 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`sh /bin/ping sex.com
< 1273325838 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1273325847 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1273325867 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`sh /usr/bin/ping esolangs.org
< 1273325868 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1273325875 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`which ping
< 1273325876 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/tmp/hackenv.14674/bin/ping
< 1273325887 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls /bin
< 1273325888 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash \ bunzip2 \ bzcat \ bzcmp \ bzdiff \ bzegrep \ bzexe \ bzfgrep \ bzgrep \ bzip2 \ bzip2recover \ bzless \ bzmore \ cat \ chgrp \ chmod \ chown \ cp \ cpio \ dash \ date \ dd \ df \ dir \ dmesg \ dnsdomainname \ domainname \ echo \ ed \ egrep \ false \ fgrep \ grep \ gunzip \ gzexe \ gzip \ hostname \ ip \ kill \ less
< 1273325902 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls /usr/bin
< 1273325903 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2to3-2.6 \ X11 \ [ \ a2p \ addpart \ addr2line \ apropos \ apt-cache \ apt-cdrom \ apt-config \ apt-extracttemplates \ apt-ftparchive \ apt-get \ apt-key \ apt-mark \ apt-sortpkgs \ aptitude \ aptitude-create-state-bundle \ aptitude-curses \ aptitude-run-state-bundle \ ar \ arch \ as \ awk \ axi-cache \ base64 \ basename \ bashbug
< 1273325933 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls /tmp/hackenv.14674/bin
< 1273325934 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1273326171 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'ls /sbin | grep ping
< 1273326182 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah
< 1273326185 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls /sbin | grep ping
< 1273326186 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1273326193 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls /bin | grep ping
< 1273326194 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1273326199 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls /usr/bin | grep ping
< 1273326200 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1273326202 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls /usr/sbin | grep ping
< 1273326203 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1273326210 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`which ping
< 1273326211 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/tmp/hackenv.15037/bin/ping
< 1273326232 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`/tmp/hackenv.15037/bin/ping esolangs.org
< 1273326233 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1273326252 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls -l /tmp/hackenv.15037/bin/ping
< 1273326253 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1273326259 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bugger
< 1273326267 0 :Patashu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help
< 1273326268 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help <command>.
< 1273326282 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's appending the PID to the hackenv.
< 1273326296 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It must start a new process, so the name changes
< 1273326299 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo $$
< 1273326300 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$$
< 1273326311 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`sh -c "echo $$"
< 1273326312 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1273326334 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo 'echo $$' | sh
< 1273326335 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'echo $$' | sh
< 1273326353 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`sh -c 'echo hello'
< 1273326354 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1273326366 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo echo
< 1273326367 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo
< 1273326382 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but I need the $$ env variable.
< 1273326432 0 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273326440 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga!
< 1273326446 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1273326452 0 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273326462 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga!
< 1273326465 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1273326468 0 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273326470 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahah
< 1273326477 0 :Patashu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo $@
< 1273326478 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make up your mind!
< 1273326478 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$@
< 1273326509 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo fred > fred
< 1273326510 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fred > fred
< 1273326518 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`w
< 1273326520 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:48:15 up 69 days,  7:23,  0 users,  load average: 0.17, 0.11, 0.03 \ USER     TTY      FROM              LOGIN@   IDLE   JCPU   PCPU WHAT
< 1273326543 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1273326594 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beh
< 1273326610 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of most unacceptable Geoff'ry;
< 1273326651 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What commands let you write directly to files from the command line?
< 1273326671 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`sh echo FUCK >fuckness
< 1273326672 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1273326674 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat fuckness
< 1273326676 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1273326681 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it has to be somewhere special to persist.
< 1273326682 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls
< 1273326683 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ cube2.base64 \ cube2.jpg \ hack_gregor \ hello.txt \ help.txt \ huh \ netcat-0.7.1 \ netcat-0.7.1.tar.gz \ out.txt \ paste \ poetry.txt \ quotes \ share \ test.sh \ tmpdir.15837 \ wunderbar_emporium \ wunderbar_emporium-3.tgz \ wunderbar_emporium-3.tgz.1
< 1273326690 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh.
< 1273326690 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pwd
< 1273326692 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/tmp/hackenv.15880
< 1273326695 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pwd
< 1273326696 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/tmp/hackenv.15919
< 1273326702 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not persistent/
< 1273326706 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls ..
< 1273326707 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hackenv.15966
< 1273326730 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The directory must be deleted between each run.
< 1273326738 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls bin
< 1273326740 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? \ addquote \ calc \ commands \ creatures \ define \ esolang \ etymology \ fortune \ google \ helpme \ imdb \ karma \ marco \ minifind \ paste \ ping \ quote \ rec \ roll \ runfor \ sayhi \ strfile \ swedish \ toutf8 \ translate \ translatefromto \ translateto \ unstr \ url \ wolfram
< 1273326752 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/wolfram
< 1273326753 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!/bin/bash \ WA='http://www24.wolframalpha.com' \  \ dowget() { \     wget -U "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686 (x86_64); en-US; rv:1.9.0.11) Gecko/2009060214 Firefox/3.0.11" "$@" \     return "$?" \ } \  \ if [ ! "$1" ] \ then \     echo 'Look up what?' \     exit 1 \ fi \  \ QUERY=`echo -n "$1" | od -t x1 -A n -w1000 | tr "
< 1273326794 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wolfram solve 1/x = x-1
< 1273326802 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is not really such a good interface.
< 1273326805 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1273326806 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And why isn't it working?
< 1273326823 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone said that Wolfram changed the interface.
< 1273326834 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently that script is against the TOS.
< 1273326845 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course it is.
< 1273326850 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A shit is not given.
< 1273326875 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1273326878 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alpha fails at that, heh.
< 1273326886 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, but it explains why they wouldn't be too concerned with making it possible for a script to use it.
< 1273326899 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wolfram solve x = 1 + (1/x)
< 1273326904 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1273326916 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wolfram solve x^2 = 2
< 1273326921 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1273326932 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wut.
< 1273326954 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like I said, the script doesn't work with Alpha at all.
< 1273326971 0 :SimonRC!~sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273327101 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :burp
< 1273327118 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`esolang
< 1273327158 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use: `esolang <language>
< 1273327158 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`esolang Lazy K
< 1273327158 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lazy K, designed by [6]Ben Rudiak-Gould, is a [7]Turing tarpit based on [8]combinatory logic. It is lazily evaluated and purely functional. \  \    Contents \  \         * [9]1 History \         * [10]2 Instructions \         * [11]3 Input and output \         * [12]4 Lazier \         * [13]5 Hello world \         * [14]6 See also
< 1273327457 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1273327457 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1273327457 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1273327624 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273327624 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273327624 0 :Deewiant!~deewiant@kekkonen.cs.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273327713 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :phi = -2 sin(666 degrees)
< 1273327713 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dun dun DUN
< 1273327713 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sin! 666!
< 1273327717 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is the devil's ratio.
< 1273327738 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`calc sin 2
< 1273327739 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sin(2) = 0.909297427
< 1273327785 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`calc sin 666
< 1273327785 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sin(666) = -0.0176416458
< 1273327785 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's in radians
< 1273327785 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably
< 1273327785 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`calc -2 * sin 666
< 1273327785 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(-2) * sin(666) = 0.0352832916
< 1273327785 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`calc -2 * sin(666 * 180/pi)
< 1273327785 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(-2) * sin((666 * 180) / pi) = -1.86752473
< 1273327785 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er wait
< 1273327785 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong way around
< 1273327790 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`calc -2 * sin(666 * pi/180)
< 1273327791 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(-2) * sin((666 * pi) / 180) = 1.61803399
< 1273327812 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :° = pi/180
< 1273327832 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know!
< 1273327960 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, then why did you do that calculation?
< 1273327960 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I couldn't be bothered to do itÂ¬
< 1273327960 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Properly, I mean!
< 1273327980 0 :Gracenotes_!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273328020 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1273328048 0 :Gracenotes_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Gracenotes
< 1273328182 0 :Patashu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1273328243 0 :Patashu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :equivalent to sin(3/10 radians) = (1+sqrt(5)/4
< 1273328261 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :radians = 1
< 1273328272 0 :Patashu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indicating it's radians instead of degrees
< 1273328275 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps you meant sin_rad(3/10) to distinguish the two functions :P
< 1273328295 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess if you take sin = sin_deg usually it makes sense and radians = 180/pi
< 1273328299 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't think anybody does that...
< 1273328407 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr... we really need a mathematica bot in here, it would be nice.
< 1273328984 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone would need to buy or pirate it.
< 1273329003 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if Freenode found out, they wouldn't be pleased/
< 1273329128 0 :Patashu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can always go with a 'wolfram alpha' bot
< 1273329147 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We *had* one of them, but Wolfram broke it.
< 1273329165 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wolfram Why did you break this bot?
< 1273329173 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1273329176 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See?
< 1273329209 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Phantom_Hoover> Someone would need to buy or pirate it.
< 1273329215 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :freenode would not give a shit
< 1273329217 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's our client, our responsibility
< 1273329223 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1273329225 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK.
< 1273329226 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i already have it pirated anyway... although not on this machine
< 1273329244 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd get it on this machine but I'm on 3G internet and it's ~4GB
< 1273329247 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1273329251 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like 600mb downloading
< 1273329256 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(since it decompresses and downloads stuff)
< 1273329259 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and stuff)
< 1273329262 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it's more like 1gb
< 1273329264 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did i say 4
< 1273329284 0 :Patashu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dang, mathematica is huge
< 1273329289 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So Freenode aren't responsible if someone makes an open interface to Mathematica?
< 1273329292 0 :Patashu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it 1gb -of-
< 1273329293 0 :Patashu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely not oode?
< 1273329310 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not code
< 1273329311 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just random shit
< 1273329314 0 :Patashu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rofl
< 1273329316 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also that's the os x version
< 1273329321 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think their os x version is their most optimised...
< 1273329327 0 :Patashu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh haha
< 1273329340 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i think i cached parts of wolfram's data repositories
< 1273329341 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: remember that mathematica is /the/ biggest ball of mud ever conceived of
< 1273329450 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers getting the non-3g connection to work
< 1273329547 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathematica isn't all that hot, really, but it's more reliable than Alpha and has more stuff.
< 1273329565 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's better than the free CASes?
< 1273329569 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb
< 1273329571 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yes, by far.
< 1273329575 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maple is also a good pay CAS.
< 1273329576 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, duh.
< 1273329584 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb to set up my net
< 1273329691 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: As for why I didn't do a Mathemabot; our campus licenses are from a limited, shared pool that manages to be sometimes empty; they wouldn't probably be very happy if were to tie one of them to a IRC-bot. Not to mention it might not be quite according to the license terms.
< 1273329729 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely Wolfram don't want you giving access to Mathematica from a public channel?
< 1273329746 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that sounds possible.
< 1273329783 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I doubt they would care that much.
< 1273329785 0 :Patashu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but would it be permissible if, say
< 1273329790 0 :Patashu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I asked you to do a calculation on mathematica for me?
< 1273329799 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously.
< 1273329816 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The student license of Mathematica is pretty reasonably priced, anyhow. It's just that you're supposed to upgrade it to real license (with a nice discount) when studies end.
< 1273329867 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1273330088 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What's the difference between the versions?
< 1273331084 0 :alise!~alise@212.183.140.36 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273331090 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, alise.
< 1273331094 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :``O LORDY ON HIGH--
< 1273331095 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1273331102 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pirated Mathematica yet?
< 1273331109 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :â€śO LORDY ON HIGH--
< 1273331114 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weird.
< 1273331122 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'' I've not.
< 1273331125 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Connection is not working.
< 1273331127 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still 3G.
< 1273331131 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Download 600mb via 3G, I think not.
< 1273331154 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I pondered it.
< 1273331216 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mm.
< 1273331219 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you on Linux?
< 1273331226 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The GUI on Linux is very, very bad and laggy.
< 1273331256 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a command-line?
< 1273331276 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; but you lose a lot of the shiny-pretties that are partly the reason to use Mathematica, and also it's harder to read the output.
< 1273331282 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathematical notation is not very well textised.
< 1273331296 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True.
< 1273331328 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, I have no practical options other than Linux.
< 1273331356 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe consider Maple? I haven't used it but it doesn't seem too bad.
< 1273331396 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm scared that Peter Mandelson will have me sniped.
< 1273331406 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The website is significantly more cheesy though.
< 1273331502 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The nice things about Mathematica over Alpha are (a) more supported functions and the like, (b) far less ambiguous syntax, and (c) you can create definitions and use them later.
< 1273331510 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which allows a far wider exploration of theoretical stuffs.
< 1273331527 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder...
< 1273331564 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You wonder what?
< 1273331574 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shh!
< 1273331580 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm wondering!
< 1273331686 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it looks like Alpha can't do lambda calculus.
< 1273331690 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah.
< 1273331717 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume that Mathematica can.
< 1273331731 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though it's probably applicative-order.
< 1273331968 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually you can do it however you want.
< 1273331974 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1273331977 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathematica is a symbolic language; it's just tree-writing, so everything is inspectable.
< 1273331980 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sort of like quoting /everything/ in Lisp.
< 1273332010 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you'd have to write your own evaluators?
< 1273332305 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure... but that's really easy.
< 1273332329 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, in Mathematica, you do derivatives with e.g. D[x^2, x].
< 1273332329 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D is just a normal function -- well, a built-in, but still --
< 1273332331 0 :Leonidas_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Leonidas
< 1273332343 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it takes "symbolic" arguments like that.
< 1273332380 0 :Rugxulo!~rugxulo@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273332795 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-140-214.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273333296 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Are you on Linux?
< 1273333306 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes.
< 1273333319 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which?
< 1273333338 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`banner hi
< 1273333340 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1273333345 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah
< 1273333349 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls bin
< 1273333350 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? \ addquote \ calc \ commands \ creatures \ define \ esolang \ etymology \ fortune \ google \ helpme \ imdb \ karma \ marco \ minifind \ paste \ ping \ quote \ rec \ roll \ runfor \ sayhi \ strfile \ swedish \ toutf8 \ translate \ translatefromto \ translateto \ unstr \ url \ wolfram
< 1273333355 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Ubuntu 9.04(!) atm.
< 1273333358 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`fortune
< 1273333359 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be considered successful, a woman must be much better at her job \ than a man would have to be.  Fortunately, this isn't difficult.
< 1273333366 0 :Patashu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: MSN = Patashu@hotmail.com , AIM = Patashu0 , YIM = Patashu2
< 1273333366 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`fortune
< 1273333367 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This must be morning.  I never could get the hang of mornings.
< 1273333368 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`fortune
< 1273333370 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Paul's Law: \	In America, it's not how much an item costs, it's how much you save.
< 1273333372 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`sayhi
< 1273333372 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`fortune
< 1273333373 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi, all
< 1273333374 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A good reputation is more valuable than money. \		-- Publilius Syrus
< 1273333382 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I'm done.
< 1273333391 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unstr huh
< 1273333392 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1273333402 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`esolang
< 1273333403 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use: `esolang <language>
< 1273333407 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`esolang befunge
< 1273333407 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`asdfgbabble
< 1273333409 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Befunge is a two-dimensional [6]esoteric programming language invented in 1993 by [7]Chris Pressey with the goal of being as difficult to compile as possible. \  \    Contents \  \         * [8]1 History \         * [9]2 Etymology \         * [10]3 Language overview \         * [11]4 Instructions \         * [12]5 Computational
< 1273333409 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1273333645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tex + exec ends up as a very strange-looking word: texexec
< 1273333661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and yes, that exists in /usr/bin for me)
< 1273333802 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Teh sex, eck.
< 1273334278 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tex-x-x
< 1273334295 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"now with more x!"
< 1273334305 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XXX, even.
< 1273334311 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XXX hot barely legal TeX implementations.
< 1273334788 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe
< 1273335098 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This is a LOLCODE interpreter I wrote as a project for my Computer Programming class." ... wow, somebody used it in school    ^_^
< 1273335106 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.assembla.com/code/iqpk/subversion/nodes/islip
< 1273335121 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :license:  WTFPL      ;-)
< 1273335162 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the proper way to address an MP is (this was asked a while ago iirc)
< 1273335174 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Right Honourable First Last MP
< 1273335189 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Rt. Hon. First Last MP for short should do.
< 1273335218 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MP?
< 1273335241 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Member of Parliament.
< 1273335262 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I presume "Yo, bonesmoker!" ain't kosher?   ;-)
< 1273335306 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" 'Ey, Smeghead, so how it's goin', parlamentin' 'n stuff?"
< 1273335411 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess if you really wanted to be formal in a way nobody else is, you would say
< 1273335422 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Right Honourable Nick Clegg, Member of Parliament
< 1273335541 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273335562 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Right Honourable Oer Jan, Member of Esotericment
< 1273335564 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan
< 1273335575 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Řrjan Johansomething
< 1273335582 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Phantom_Hoover> Why are there all these people with "wikipedia" in their hot names?
< 1273335585 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi alise!
< 1273335595 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my name-memorising & norwegtongue-spelling is not so good.
< 1273335608 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can never spell Norwegian. I always type Norweigan.
< 1273335623 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it's because of masked hostnames
< 1273335632 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somebody's in #wikipedia, asks an ircop "hey MASK ME" and voila wikipedia/
< 1273335639 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: those are "cloaks" i believe, you can register one if you don't want people to see your IP.
< 1273335688 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273335701 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, the late lamented.
< 1273335706 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: you almost had it correct.  just remember that it's -sen in norwegian and danish, but -son in swedish.  mostly.
< 1273335734 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Johansen, then.
< 1273335748 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's pronounced yohan yohansen, I hope
< 1273335752 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes -sson in swedish, but never -ssen in the others
< 1273335753 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know your first name is vaguely pronounced yohan
< 1273335758 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just hope that Johan is pronounced ~yohan too
< 1273335774 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it is, but they are not pronounced the same ;D
< 1273335804 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarlett_Johansson
< 1273335822 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is apparently a current norwegian historic film about someone literally named yohan.
< 1273335857 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind if I call you double-Y for long?
< 1273335863 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, double y, how's it hanginnnnnnnnn
< 1273335865 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes.
< 1273335882 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my first name does _not_ start with y, dammit.
< 1273335901 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although incidentally there is a lot of dialect variation between y and Ă¸ in norwegian
< 1273335903 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273335904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> Teh sex, eck. <-- not what I meant XD
< 1273335921 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: fine then, double-ř
< 1273335926 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :double-ř seven
< 1273335945 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Johansson
< 1273335952 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there's only one Ă.
< 1273335959 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you appeared in an episode of the Simpsons, oerjan, as a new member of the Simpsons family, you'd be Ř.J. Simpson
< 1273335961 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true story.
< 1273335963 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"American-born Canadian actor" ... sounds weird
< 1273335963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> there is apparently a current norwegian historic film about someone literally named yohan. <-- is that common?
< 1273335974 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: obviously not, or it wouldn't be notable
< 1273335980 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, Yrjan is an actual norwegian name.  very rare though, only 40 persons or so http://www.norskenavn.no/navn.php?id=2491
< 1273335997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1273336037 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you will sometimes find people defying the -sen/-son distinction by actually descending from the other country, naturally
< 1273336047 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yrřan
< 1273336054 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOES THAT WORK
< 1273336054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, I can only think of one Swedish name starting with y, and it may very well be "imported" from some other language.
< 1273336073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that doesn't mean there doesn't exist other ones)
< 1273336074 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y of course
< 1273336114 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: According to WP Ă¸ is pronounced as someone with a non-rhotic English accent would say "ir".
< 1273336131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, isn't it pronounced mostly like Ă¶?
< 1273336135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Swedish Ă¶ that is)
< 1273336150 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P
< 1273336164 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to WP, yes.
< 1273336177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, btw, which English accents are non-rhotic?
< 1273336182 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except Ă¶ is long.
< 1273336186 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yohan is so rare that that website doesn't have it.  "Grunnen er at det er 3 eller fĂ¦rre som har dette som fĂ¸rste fornavn i Norge, og disse er derfor ikke tatt med i navnelistene som er mottatt fra Statistisk sentralbyrĂĄ av personvernhensyn."
< 1273336187 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Řřk Řřk Řřk!
< 1273336212 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. it's so rare it would be a privacy violation to include it.
< 1273336233 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Most of England, I think Wales, Australia and NZ.
< 1273336239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1273336243 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1273336244 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no rarer than Dromhall (or whatever it was)    ;-)
< 1273336245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, most except US then?
< 1273336251 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yngvar, yngve, those aren't swedish names?
< 1273336259 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yngwie, yes ... famous guitarist
< 1273336260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, okay, three then
< 1273336287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, wait two
< 1273336294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, it is ingvar  and ungve
< 1273336295 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1273336297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yngve*
< 1273336303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yngvar I never seen
< 1273336325 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION needs to reboot
< 1273336330 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh.  it exists in norwegian.  Yngvar Numme is a comedian.
< 1273336331 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273336335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, as for the one I originally thought of, googling indicates it is French in origin
< 1273336343 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also Ingvar and Ingvard (my father's name)
< 1273336361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it was "Yvonne", which is not very common, but neither very rare)
< 1273336368 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't you be Řrjan Ingvardsen then :D
< 1273336368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and that is a female name)
< 1273336369 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shot
< 1273336372 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yngvar == Yvonne ?????
< 1273336376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, no
< 1273336396 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yvonne yeah that's probably french
< 1273336398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, yvonne was the one I thought of originally when I said: <AnMaster> hm, I can only think of one Swedish name starting with y, and it may very well be "imported" from some other language.
< 1273336410 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, Yvonne is french, same as Yves
< 1273336424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, it is not completely uncommon in Sweden though
< 1273336428 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yuri (probably Russian)
< 1273336429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while yves is
< 1273336448 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yoda   :-P
< 1273336456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, btw, yngve sounds archaic to me
< 1273336467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, well, who knows what language that comes from
< 1273336489 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish Mathematica was... small.
< 1273336501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, oh? In what sense?
< 1273336503 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: chances are yohan will pick up now though, with the movie
< 1273336503 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yvette, another French name
< 1273336506 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Bits.
< 1273336511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what movie?
< 1273336518 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You cannot easily pirate some hundreds of megabytes on a 3G connection.
< 1273336524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, in memory usage while running or?
< 1273336524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1273336544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, but didn't you have it before too?
< 1273336547 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: norwegian -sen names aren't patronymicons any longer, only the icelandic do that afaik
< 1273336555 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: on another machine, alas.
< 1273336557 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION slaps alise with a trřut
< 1273336559 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the laptop)
< 1273336562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ah
< 1273336569 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, patronymicons?
< 1273336578 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "Yohan Barnevandreren" is a new norwegian movie this year.  i haven't seen it.
< 1273336581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1273336592 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: surnames based on father's first name
< 1273336597 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, okay right
< 1273336607 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as -sen and -son originally were
< 1273336615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that raises another question: how the hell can that concept be named "patronymicons"
< 1273336629 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Greek
< 1273336633 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"patronymicons" is a really strange thing for, well, anything at all
< 1273336643 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :la:pater = father, gr:onyma = name
< 1273336647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/strange thing/strange name/
< 1273336651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, and the icons?
< 1273336652 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nym = name (Greek)
< 1273336653 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possible gr:pater = father too
< 1273336661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, gr?
< 1273336666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh greek
< 1273336666 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah patriarchy ~~ patro
< 1273336682 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pseudonym ~~ nym
< 1273336688 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eponym
< 1273336688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so the "pateronym" bit makes sense, the "icons" bit does not
< 1273336696 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-icon = -ic-on where -ic is like in electric and -on is the neuter nominative ending in greek
< 1273336697 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ic ~~ as in "epic"
< 1273336700 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forget "icons", that's a bogus ending anyways
< 1273336709 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ons ~~ set, collection, sort of thing?
< 1273336713 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a really bad description, but
< 1273336717 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't require any knowledge of latin or greek :P
< 1273336718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, does -ic in electric have some special meaning?
< 1273336726 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :electric, epic
< 1273336730 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-satisfying-property
< 1273336731 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never learned (ancient) Greek, but I think "on" is normal subject ending and "os" is plural (or such)
< 1273336737 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's just a greek way to turn a noun into an adjective
< 1273336738 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a name is patronymic
< 1273336740 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think
< 1273336741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ah I see
< 1273336744 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1273336746 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a thing is patronymic
< 1273336750 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a name that descends from fathers
< 1273336756 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pyrrhic, classic, technique, etc.
< 1273336759 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ons -- the set of all things that are patronymic
< 1273336761 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :patronymicons
< 1273336764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, so electricity is noun -> adjective -> noun?
< 1273336764 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: like -lig in no/sw
< 1273336776 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :electr
< 1273336789 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :television -> Greek-based word
< 1273336791 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yeah greek electric + lating -itas
< 1273336799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, eh? removing -lig from the first three words with that ending that I thought of returned nonsense
< 1273336821 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: barnlig for example?
< 1273336837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/three/two/ <-- weird typo
< 1273336840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, "fĂ¶rnulig" "gullig"
< 1273336851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that gives nonsene if you remove the "-lig"
< 1273336867 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well swedish may have mangled things historically, like every other language
< 1273336873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, also barnlig must be Norwegian only? Is it perhaps the same as sv:barnslig
< 1273336879 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that guld + -lig or something?
< 1273336890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, gullig ~ cute
< 1273336893 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: actually it's barnslig in norwegian too
< 1273336911 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: sounds like it could come from gul[dl]
< 1273336917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm perhaps
< 1273336939 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except barnlig is sometimes used as a more positive version i think
< 1273336950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, eh?
< 1273336963 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :barnslig has the connotation of immature, while barnlig is more child-like
< 1273336973 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :different connotations
< 1273336983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1273336988 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and barnlig doesn't exist in Swedish
< 1273336990 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think barnlig is so common though
< 1273336998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes barnslig means immature
< 1273337012 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more or less
< 1273337018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, btw how would you translate fĂ¶rnurlig to English?
< 1273337022 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mřre řr less
< 1273337045 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh, why are big-operator notations so hard to translate into ASCII?
< 1273337070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, you know, to someone who actually know a language where that letter exists and read it like it is supposed to be pronounced, that ends up very strange.
< 1273337083 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I quite like "â‘(k=m, n) x" for $\sum_{k=m}^n x$.
< 1273337095 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no stranger than some other esoteric languages lřřk
< 1273337119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, but try reading that aloud as it should be pronounced :P
< 1273337134 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for me, it's all pronounced the same   ;-)
< 1273337138 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghřti
< 1273337145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, didn't wikipedia tell you how
< 1273337152 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nř, I didn't check
< 1273337153 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you said something like something in some accents
< 1273337168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait
< 1273337170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not you
< 1273337170 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prřbably nřt me
< 1273337171 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: -on in greek has nothing with sets to do, it's just a case/gender ending.
< 1273337175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was <Phantom_Hoover> oerjan: According to WP Ă¸ is pronounced as someone with a non-rhotic English accent would say "ir".
< 1273337178 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273337181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, but now you know too
< 1273337188 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1273337203 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION still can't understand how to pronounce Ejdffakasdkjfasdfalkv
< 1273337204 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273337218 0 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273337218 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, what?
< 1273337226 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the vřlcanř
< 1273337236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh stop those Ă¸ :(
< 1273337240 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, sorry
< 1273337244 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EyjafjallajĂ¶kull
< 1273337247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, right
< 1273337252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, and I have no clue either
< 1273337259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Islandic is rather.... special
< 1273337260 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, can't be bothered to memorize the spelling of such an insane name
< 1273337270 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: btw gr:electron = amber (also i'm responding to old messages i know)
< 1273337271 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pronounced Ey ya falla joke ull, obviously!
< 1273337273 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: *Icelandic
< 1273337288 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fb/Eyjafjallaj%C3%B6kull-bjarmason.ogg
< 1273337301 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the .ogg on Wikipedia seemed to ignore the last "ull" part
< 1273337311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, sorry, en:iceland = sv:island, en:island = sv:Ă¶
< 1273337320 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ehv-ja-jalv-kvik" (if I remember correctly, which isn't likely)
< 1273337323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, this causes some confusion sometimes
< 1273337330 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :islenska
< 1273337352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, part of that volcano name makes sense for me, I can roughly split it as a concatenation of at least three parts.
< 1273337362 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only "hard" part about pronouncing that is knowing that ll in Icelandic is [tl]
< 1273337367 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~chatzilla@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273337367 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :en:island = sv:ö
< 1273337371 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How often do you guys need to talk about islands?
< 1273337376 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, *ös.
< 1273337379 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that j is [j] I suppose, if you're English
< 1273337381 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :en:river = sv:ĂĄ
< 1273337386 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also norwegian
< 1273337387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, haha,
< 1273337393 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, seriously :P
< 1273337399 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we likes our geography short, you see
< 1273337402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, also what is Ă¶s?
< 1273337409 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Islands.
< 1273337410 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously.
< 1273337420 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :insula [latin]
< 1273337426 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no, it is a verb meaning something I don't know the English word for
< 1273337434 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that would be Ă¶ar or something.  Ă¸yer in norwegian.
< 1273337437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you get water *inside* a boat, you need to use that verb
< 1273337442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yes it is Ă¶ar
< 1273337463 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bail?
< 1273337481 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oar as in boat stick thingy?
< 1273337489 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Vi vivas!
< 1273337490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw about that volcano Eyja-fjalla-jĂ¶kull I think. the middle part looks similar to Swedish "fjĂ¤ll", which is not the same as a mountain (sv:berg) but I think it translates to en:mountain anyway
< 1273337496 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: The Â¨ matters, you know :-P
< 1273337499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, it is to move the water out of the boat
< 1273337500 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: the surprising thing about eyjafjallajĂ¶kull pronunciation (for a norwegian) is that the ll's are more like dl
< 1273337512 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, not by a pump, but by hand
< 1273337518 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That would be "bail", then.
< 1273337544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, ah. Then the English phrase "bail out" makes no sense
< 1273337546 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq:  samideano?
< 1273337574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, also you can Ă¶sa without a boat being involved. Say, to fill a bucket or whatever.,
< 1273337575 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Words can have more than one meaning (and phrases moreso)
< 1273337576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/,//
< 1273337579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1273337584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the last comma only ;P
< 1273337592 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well yes
< 1273337593 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/,/,$/
< 1273337606 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deewiant, wind != wind, bow != bow
< 1273337610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yes quite, I was just too lazy to fix the sed line
< 1273337669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what about the first part? eyja?
< 1273337682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I can't figure out how to pronounce yj
< 1273337683 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's islands' iirc
< 1273337711 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "y"-voiced "sh"?
< 1273337719 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: [Ij]
< 1273337723 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well from the clips i've heard, it sounds like they're just prolonging the e and then passing to j
< 1273337723 0 :bsmntbombdood!~gavin@97-118-202-110.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273337724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hm...
< 1273337751 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ah that was much more helpful than what Phantom_Hoover and Deewiant said.
< 1273337766 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover was wrong :-P
< 1273337775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because I suck at IPA and also couldn't figure out what the heck ""y"-voiced "sh"" was)
< 1273337794 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Voiced-"sh" presumably meant the English j sound
< 1273337798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1273337815 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that was a wild guess.
< 1273337840 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And voiced-"sh" is the French j sound.
< 1273337847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, btw that thing about ll, does that apply to both the first and the second ll?
< 1273337848 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rot13 (probably easier to pronounce, heh):   rlwnswnyynwbxhyy
< 1273337850 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the last -ll makes sense when you know it's unvoiced so the actual l part is almost inaudible.  or so i read.
< 1273337852 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just paste the IPA from Wikipedia so we can stop guessing: [ËÉ›ÉŞjaËŚfjatlaËŚjĹ“kĘŹtl]
< 1273337872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, not in that case no
< 1273337881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a Dane could most likely manage it
< 1273337889 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, it applies to all ll's in Icelandic
< 1273337896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1273337909 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eyjafjallajokull ??? "I, ya, fall a joke all" ???
< 1273337917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and do you find eyjafjallajĂ¶kull easy to pronounce?
< 1273337918 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except maybe some loanwords
< 1273337919 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the joke's on us, it's not real, we've been had!
< 1273337920 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes
< 1273337923 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's trivial
< 1273337933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, Finns...
< 1273337956 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: everyone knows it's just a giant insurance scam to get away from all that debt
< 1273337983 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't trust a language without "c" or "z"   ;-)
< 1273338005 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw it doesn't make much sense to me that the Icelandic people should have to pay that. Shouldn't it really be that bank that had to pay it
< 1273338006 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poles are so trustable
< 1273338007 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: "eyafyatlayocutel" would be my initial attempt at Englishification
< 1273338041 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eyjafjallajökull is really just a plot by the Icelandic people to avoid paying anything.
< 1273338053 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They will pepper all the discussions about paying it back with that word, so as to avoid anyone pronouncing it.
< 1273338056 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus, discussions will collapse.
< 1273338056 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Voiced consonants are probably *really* easy to grasp for Japanese speakers...
< 1273338058 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am a genius.
< 1273338077 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"sh" and "j", for instance, are differentiated in their writing system by a voicing mark.
< 1273338089 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, oh btw how did the UK election work out? Saw something in the paper today about no  singly party being able to rule alone.
< 1273338096 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ă‚›<- Stick that on a kana, and now it's voiced!
< 1273338125 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes; the Conservatives got more seats than anyone else, but not enough to form a government.
< 1273338127 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every kana one voice
< 1273338131 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's hungtastic.
< 1273338136 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So both the Tories (Conservatives) and Labour are scrambling to make a deal with the Liberal Democrats.
< 1273338146 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ă‚ś<- stick that on a kana, and it's incorrect in general
< 1273338155 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Liberal Democrats really want election reform and also for Brown to resign if Labour, so basically they're going to pound both parties in the ass to get what they want.
< 1273338155 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: i also read that labour + lib dems don't have a majority in common
< 1273338164 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After all, if they don't co-operate with the lib dems, they won't get any power.
< 1273338168 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: True.
< 1273338172 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: No; that's why you pile in a bunch of other random parties with them.
< 1273338187 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ă‹ă‚śI have no idea how to pronounce that.
< 1273338192 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :random parties that never matter otherwise :)
< 1273338203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, but can Labour + the liberal democrats rule alone? And what about minor other ones. Saw something about that in the statistics in the paper. A few seats to small parties
< 1273338206 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ă‹ă‚š
< 1273338217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly wales and North Ireland iirc
< 1273338218 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No, they cannot rule alone. That is why they would go to a bunch of random tiny parties.
< 1273338219 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: it also means the conservatives have more options than labour in theory, right?
< 1273338223 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That way they can get a government.
< 1273338223 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/???.       (oh goody)
< 1273338224 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes.
< 1273338238 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looked fine when I cut/pasted it
< 1273338242 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, the Lib Dems I think would rather ally with the Tories: people really hate Labour, so people won't really like the Lib Dems if they ally with Labour.
< 1273338251 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, the Tories and the Lib Dems are basically complete opposites...
< 1273338253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm, could all those small parties + the conservatives form a government?
< 1273338256 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the Lib Dems have a lot of power right now.
< 1273338258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and skip on the lib dems
< 1273338264 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :conservatives, bnp and ukip, ftw! >;D
< 1273338270 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Most of the little parties involved are left-wing.
< 1273338273 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Nuff said.
< 1273338273 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that
< 1273338275 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ah good
< 1273338293 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I really want to see UK's election system changed to a saner one.
< 1273338307 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: But, if both Labour and the Conservatives fail to make a deal with the Lib Dems, the Conservatives will rule as a minority government until the whole country collapses from sheer indecision.
< 1273338315 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: how many small parties _are_ there?  i only know of ukip and bnp
< 1273338321 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: tons
< 1273338325 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which definitely don't sound left to me
< 1273338335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, true, that is an issue, but what are the rules for forming a minority government?
< 1273338336 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely you have heard of the greens (though they barely exist and would be of ~no use)
< 1273338344 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's a bunch of scotland/ireland/wales specific left-wing parties
< 1273338345 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course i only know of them because they're notorious, probably
< 1273338346 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc
< 1273338357 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: um there aren't any I think
< 1273338370 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :conservatives have more seats than anyone else, but everyone else still has a bunch of power, no specific government, Q.E.D.
< 1273338378 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I dunno, perhaps as a way of differentiating /Ĺ‹/ and /g/?
< 1273338395 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shrug
< 1273338418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ah, but what about prime minister post and such, doesn't the parliament have to vote about that or such?
< 1273338437 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not actually sure about minority governments.
< 1273338456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and presumably that would need at least 50% yes votes or such (that tends to be the point of voting...)
< 1273338474 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :About electoral reform, something I wrote:
< 1273338476 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[
< 1273338477 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In other news, a stochastic voting system (http://r6.ca/blog/20040603T005300Z.html) would have avoided this problem entirely. Some simulated Canadian elections with this system:
< 1273338477 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2004 (http://r6.ca/blog/20060122T172700Z.html)
< 1273338477 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2006: predictions (http://r6.ca/blog/20060125T200600Z.html), results (http://r6.ca/blog/20060217T201200Z.html)
< 1273338479 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2008: predictions (http://r6.ca/blog/20081016T174811Z.html), results (http://r6.ca/blog/20081107T061447Z.html)
< 1273338481 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ejajafjovkajlfasfl
< 1273338483 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that these results are not really accurate, because they use people's tactical votes that were meant to be used on the current system. In an actual stochastic election system, tactical voting would be voting for who you really want, so the votes and thus the results would differ.
< 1273338486 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :]]
< 1273338489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, "simulated elections"?
< 1273338502 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Use the real votes, calculate the outcome with the stochastic system.
< 1273338505 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1273338513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so data from previous elections
< 1273338521 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :current elections, usually, but yes
< 1273338524 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As I say in the last paragraph, this isn't accurate as people shouldn't "tactically vote" under a stochastic system
< 1273338535 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as it's useless; the most rational policy is to vote for your preferred party)
< 1273338546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, does canada use such a stochastic system?
< 1273338552 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. It's a bit radical.
< 1273338556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1273338566 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, the problem is that most people Do Not Understand Statistics, and thus would see "random candidate with strict distribution" as "OH MY GOD YOU ARE SELECTING OUR PRIME MINISTER WITH A /DICE ROLL/!?!?!?!?!"
< 1273338582 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the brits don't know how to do minority governments, they just panic >:)
< 1273338609 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The stochastic election system is the only system in which it always best to vote for your preferred candidate."
< 1273338614 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Judging from what I've seen, the Brits don't know how to do efficient government.
< 1273338618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm, why use randomness really, what not a deterministic proportional system?
< 1273338628 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because "The stochastic election system is the only system in which it always best to vote for your preferred candidate."
< 1273338630 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is mathematical fact
< 1273338631 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Massive, lumbering monsters, however? They've got that down to an art.
< 1273338635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, oh?
< 1273338653 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other desirable properties: no "major flips" due to a small number of votes
< 1273338668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so there is proof that there can not be any other system that allows that property?
< 1273338670 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it's the only system where every vote truly /does/ count
< 1273338675 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, though I don't know it
< 1273338679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1273338684 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but certainly no system anyone else has thought of has this property
< 1273338696 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the randomness /really/ doesn't matter, as O'Connor says,
< 1273338700 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"And yes, I think it is fair for the Marxist-Leninist Party to get one seat in Parliament once every 100 years."
< 1273338711 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so an extremely fringe party only gets a /single/ seat, and even then only once every 100 years, because of the randomness
< 1273338722 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's not really "unreliable" or "unpredictable" or "unsafe" in the slightest.
< 1273338742 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, this is all theory; until the populace is more intelligent, people will read all this and still think "OMG DICE ROLL".
< 1273338746 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: People are heavily worried about the National Socialist Party getting all the seats.
< 1273338755 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... For instance.
< 1273338786 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes. And you realise that statistically, it's more likely that, say, giant pigs come down from the sky, tell us that they're manifestations of God, and elaborate unto us a mind-virus that causes us all to actually vote for the Nazis willingly?
< 1273338802 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You do; but People (who are, as a rule, a stupid collective) don't.
< 1273338805 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*I* am well aware of this.
< 1273338817 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The average person knows fuck-all about statistics.
< 1273338836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what about a modified variant that kept it within, say, 20% (fudge factor here, this number is a complete guesstimate) from the result you would have got from a proportional system?
< 1273338848 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Precisely.
< 1273338850 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Pointless.
< 1273338852 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Utterly pointless.
< 1273338858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well sure, but it would calm people down
< 1273338859 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Randomness Does Not Work Like That.
< 1273338864 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- and besides, it would just bring back injustice.
< 1273338866 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Might as well just use a proportional system.
< 1273338871 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it would make tactical voting WORK again.
< 1273338875 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is the whole bad point.
< 1273338925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, pick the number so that the system still work (really improbable that tactical voting would affect anything) but still small enough that the 100% for BNP wouldn't happen
< 1273338938 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you're talking nonsense
< 1273338941 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just won't work like that
< 1273338944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, okay
< 1273338947 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the results can be significantly different from /every/ other voting process
< 1273338952 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the whole point
< 1273338993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so how well does it reflect what people actually voted? If say, 50% voted for party A, will party A end up with roughly 50% of the seats?
< 1273339014 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1273339029 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The definition is /really simple/:
< 1273339032 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In each riding, ballots cast are counted. A random candidate is selected with a distribution proportional to the number of votes for each candidate. The selected candidate wins the seat."
< 1273339042 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's self-evident from the definition that 50% of votes ~> 50% of seats.
< 1273339049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"riding"?
< 1273339073 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i take it it is roughly equivalent to picking a random voter for each seat, and taking their candidate
< 1273339097 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273339098 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1273339106 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a candidate from their selected party
< 1273339125 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273339132 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: riding is like constituency, I think?
< 1273339140 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1273339143 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm this is still with british ridings, right
< 1273339144 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :electoral district/constituency
< 1273339187 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: iiuc, with ridings, it would have one major flaw: there would be no way to ensure the party leaders were elected
< 1273339194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I thought of a fair system, however you can only vote for parties, not for individual people. I can't see how tactical voting would work in that system.
< 1273339196 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which could surely cause problems
< 1273339203 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm? I don't see how
< 1273339217 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, tell us the system then, so we can tell you its flaws.
< 1273339254 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: say if the conservatives want to be nearly sure cameron is elected.  assuming no riding has > 90% conservative voters, they _cannot_ be sure he doesn't get thrown out
< 1273339278 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm
< 1273339287 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure I fully understand, but - isn't it a /good thing/ to stop parties running on cults of personality?
< 1273339292 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We are not MEANT to have a Presidential system!
< 1273339302 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: well i guess _some_ might consider it a good thing
< 1273339305 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pollution in our political climate, this focus on the leaders
< 1273339315 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you mean like everyone in UK systems until recently?
< 1273339332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well you vote for the party you want, that is all there is to the voting, no "preferred candidate" or such. Then the votes are counted across the entire country (no "one winner per sector" or such stupid things like the US have), then each party get a proportional number of seats based on the result. Using round to nearest if a seat would end up with 58% of one party and the rest from another.
< 1273339337 0 :MizardX-!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273339347 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I can't see the flaw in this rather simple system. There might be one
< 1273339352 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: if you say so, i don't know that much about UK pol. history
< 1273339382 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you would ideally like party P1 to be elected, but P1 does not get many votes usually. there are two main parties, P2 and P3; P2 is abhorrent, P3 is too but slightly less so. you really want to keep P2 out, even though P1 is your favourite, so you vote for P3.
< 1273339388 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is what tactical voting means.
< 1273339420 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, how would that work, if I cast the vote for P1 instead it wouldn't be to advantage for P2, would it?
< 1273339429 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it would
< 1273339432 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm?
< 1273339441 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine P2=50, P3=50 apart from your vote
< 1273339444 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and P1=1
< 1273339449 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cast vote for P1,
< 1273339449 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i believe israel uses a system close to that
< 1273339450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay I see
< 1273339453 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P1=2, P2=50, P3=50
< 1273339456 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cast vote for P3,
< 1273339461 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P1=1, P2=50, P3=51
< 1273339476 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :voting for P3 is better if you really don't want P2 to get in
< 1273339476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so new idea instead of round to nearest: time share on that seat based on the votes for it XD
< 1273339477 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1273339482 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: wat XD
< 1273339515 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate gidd det da
< 1273339518 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bother it when
< 1273339520 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273339532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, say, you get one seat that would be 60% party A, 40% party B. with round to nearest it would go to party A, but with time share it would be party A 60% of the time, and party B 40% of the time
< 1273339563 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate Au au vondt vondt, det svir sĂĄ utrolig lenge.
< 1273339565 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Au au pain hurts, it stings so incredibly long.
< 1273339575 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i think one could do stochastic voting in a proportional system as well, would also solve the leader problem i mentioned (assuming one thinks it is a problem)
< 1273339579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, perhaps it should adjust for when the votes in the parliament are held, so make it 60%/40% of the votes cast instead
< 1273339595 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I would just have a 60% chance of giving it to party A and a 40% chance of giving it to party B.
< 1273339636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, when was the leader problem mentioned?
< 1273339658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh there
< 1273339659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1273339668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I don't see how that is a problem
< 1273339687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, doing it per sector is completely stupid for *any* system
< 1273339690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really
< 1273339694 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: parties might consider it a problem if their "top people" don't get into parliament
< 1273339703 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1273339705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hm okay
< 1273339724 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although Venstre managed so last year in norway
< 1273339731 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan never said doing it per sector is stupid
< 1273339750 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/951548.txt?key=fim9ynr9xvnvulb6inula ;; Move over, ML, I've just invented a ridiculously abstract meta-language.
< 1273339767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well this stochastic system wouldn't use ridings/sectors right?
< 1273339772 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: it was implied by my leader quibble, really
< 1273339779 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In each riding, ballots cast are counted. A random candidate is selected with a distribution proportional to the number of votes for each candidate. The selected candidate wins the seat."
< 1273339785 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps you should read every word of that sentence.
< 1273339791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1273339809 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem with not-per-ridings is
< 1273339816 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :per-ridings means that in a stochastic system
< 1273339826 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everybody gets a number of seats ~= the portion of the popular vote
< 1273339827 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is
< 1273339832 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they get POWER PROPORTIONAL to their votes
< 1273339835 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this happened to Venstre because when a norwegian party gets sufficiently small, their outcome essentially _does_ dissolve into separate ridings
< 1273339841 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't have ridings and just have one-party-rules-with-all-their-might,
< 1273339850 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it's useless
< 1273339853 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because one wins and the rest don't
< 1273339858 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: if you mean
< 1273339862 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do it without ridings but still have seats
< 1273339862 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no smoothing out candidates for < 4% votes nationally)
< 1273339865 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then what do the seats correspond to?
< 1273339870 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many should there be? Why?
< 1273339871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ridings are a bad idea because if you live in an area where, say, 90% of the people prefer party A but you prefer party B, and over the whole country there are many areas with that distribution that means party B will be underrepresented.
< 1273339877 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically this system eliminates the MEANING of constitutencies
< 1273339882 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but keeps them just to give an arbitrary total
< 1273339899 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: oh, that is not how the stochastic system works
< 1273339907 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure how to explain BUT I'M SURE OERJAN CAN
< 1273339939 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: "gidd det da" sounds strange, but means roughly "bother with it then"
< 1273339942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, isn't that what ridings mean though?
< 1273339951 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not think so.
< 1273339965 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Let's say it's 51% for 1 party, 49% for another party in *most* areas. About 51% of the seats will go to one party, and 49% to the other.
< 1273339979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know the US election system has the issue I mentioned.
< 1273339988 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the us election system does not use ridings
< 1273339991 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Change the percentages, and it still works like that.
< 1273339992 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well, it's in response to "BrannsĂĄr! :d digg!", if that helps.
< 1273340005 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: also "vondt vondt" is more like an outburst, like "ooh the pain"
< 1273340009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm?
< 1273340025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, do you mean that pikhq the distribution is calculated across the whole country?
< 1273340034 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: If 90% of the people nation-wide prefer a party, about 90% of the seats will go to them.
< 1273340040 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is just how the odds work out.
< 1273340057 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what the "digg!" is all about there.
< 1273340106 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, right, as long as it doesn't end up like in US where that property does not hold true I'm okay with it
< 1273340119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ugh that needed some commas)
< 1273340131 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, don't worry, it holds in a stochastic riding system.
< 1273340146 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(presuming that you have some relation between population of a subdivision and that subdivision's representation. The Senate on this system would be *royally* fucked up still.)
< 1273340150 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what about the current UK system, it has that problem too doesn't it?
< 1273340177 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :current UK and Canada system
< 1273340186 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's call it the Westminster system for clarity
< 1273340191 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure it does
< 1273340196 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes
< 1273340200 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not proportional in any way
< 1273340202 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you are right
< 1273340204 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: digg is essentially an english borrowing
< 1273340205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ah yes, each area need to have equal number of people in it if they have equal weight
< 1273340205 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stochastic elections are though
< 1273340228 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"dig it"
< 1273340232 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does it mean in English?  :P
< 1273340264 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: to like something?
< 1273340264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps it is now outdated slang in English
< 1273340268 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be
< 1273340272 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As it is, in the US it is *perfectly* possible to have 5 people electing their own senator.
< 1273340279 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1273340288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, that term exists in Swedish too, I would never use it though
< 1273340300 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i sort of thought digg was named after it, although it _could_ be about digging up stuff, i guess
< 1273340300 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is moderately outdated slang in English, yes.
< 1273340310 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the website)
< 1273340317 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Digg is probably named after it.
< 1273340326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds outdated in Swedish too
< 1273340326 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah digg is named after dig it YOOOO
< 1273340335 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273340403 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: as i see it the whole point of a stochastic system would be to allow national representation to be approximately based on total votes _despite_ having separate ridings
< 1273340492 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i quite expect that the path of borrowing went english -> swedish -> norwegian
< 1273340563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh? heh
< 1273340584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, and why would you want to have separate ridings?
< 1273340587 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i believe quite a lot of last century norwegian slang came via swedish
< 1273340590 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fail to see the point of it
< 1273340608 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: very _local_ representation, you get to elect someone from your local district
< 1273340625 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any way for a web page to communicate with its iframes?
< 1273340674 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least that's the thing i lately keep seeing as one major _advantage_ of the british system (that and the usual "some party has absolute majority and can govern efficiently")
< 1273340682 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*keep reading about
< 1273340703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hm okay, what about the Swedish election system then? iirc it rather complicated, something like proportional per party across the whole country, then to select the actual persons to fill those places it is based on where a party got most votes or some such
< 1273340745 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i guess that's similar to the norwegian one.  in which case it is _somewhat_ local, but only on a county (lĂ¤n/fylke) basis?
< 1273340770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I don't remember which size of the district is used
< 1273340859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_Sweden says "Seats in the various legislative bodies are allocated amongst the Swedish political parties  proportionally using a modified form of the Sainte-LaguĂ« method. This modification creates a systematic preference in the mathematics behind seat distribution, favoring larger parties over smaller parties which might otherwise win only a single seat. At the core of it, the system remains intensely
< 1273340859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : proportional, and thus a party which wins approximately 25% of the vote should win approximately 25% of the seats."
< 1273340873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not perfect indeed
< 1273340901 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: in norway basically _most_ representatives are elected "directly" from counties (with more than one per county though), and then the national representation is smoothed out with one extra seat per county
< 1273340925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, it could be that, I'm not completely sure
< 1273340982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and: "The candidates chosen from each party are determined by two factors: the candidate's ranking by their party and the number of preference votes from the voters. Though the parties still entirely control the names on their own party lists, the system gives the voters a degree of power in choosing candidates from the list. For instance, in national parliamentary elections, any candidates who receive a number of personal votes equal to ei
< 1273340983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ght percent or greater of the party's total amount of votes will automatically be bumped to the top of the list, regardless of their ranking on the list by the party. This threshold is only five percent for local elections and elections to the European Parliament."
< 1273340990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is rather complicated
< 1273340993 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc it was increased to one extra seat per county because the lower number frequently meant extra votes to a party were frequently allocated to a district where they _didn't_ have significant votes.  this may still be a problem, i don't know.
< 1273341065 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273341080 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273341118 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have (had?) those preference vote things too, i think they almost never matter
< 1273341163 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then i don't even know the names of most local candidates so why would i bump any...
< 1273341200 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may be only for local elections nowadays
< 1273341218 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I remember reading about some parties list being overturned by it in Sweden
< 1273341228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think it was in the last EU election
< 1273341235 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1273341254 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone from 8th place being bumped to first or second or such
< 1273341261 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using zeta function regularisation, â‘(n=1, âž) n^2 = 0, but â‘(n=1, âž) n = â’1/12
< 1273341266 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes me wonder: wut.
< 1273341276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, even funnier, iirc we used to have "do not prefer" instead of "prefer" ages ago
< 1273341295 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1273341296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could iirc check two you wanted to move down the list or some such
< 1273341315 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i vaguely recall something like that in norway
< 1273341326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, stop copying us ;P
< 1273341351 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i vaguely suspect they removed that because it actually _had_ an effect, on people the parties didn't want it to affect
< 1273341360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1273341367 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: but we're so good at it :D
< 1273341371 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on *parties the *people
< 1273341373 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the other way around :D
< 1273341398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, err?
< 1273341402 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: definitely the way i said it
< 1273341413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it doesn't make much sense reversed
< 1273341431 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what do you mean err?
< 1273341438 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ah :D
< 1273341440 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you sly man
< 1273341445 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what?
< 1273341450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is he sly
< 1273341459 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's being snarky.
< 1273341479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no he just said your correction was incorrect.
< 1273341487 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even i get the occasional snark you know
< 1273341489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but snarky, no
< 1273341501 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it counts as snark
< 1273341522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, btw shouldn't down vote be a better system then? If it does have an effect. After all the elections should represent what people actually want
< 1273341557 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no because he was making a statement about party control duh
< 1273341567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then it could allow some interesting tactical voting. Say, you prefer party A, but you definitely do not want the name from the top of the list in party B to get a seat. Thus you vote on party B but down-vote the first name on the list
< 1273341579 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no the thing is upvoting only shifts some unimportant people up, and important people a _little_ down.  while downvoting can shift _important_ people out.  from the view of the party leadership.
< 1273341623 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i vaguely recall for a while the parties could put some people _twice_ on the lists to counteract this.
< 1273341629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yes quite, but the voters should be allowed to get the people they prefer in IMO, and not the ones which happens to run the party.
< 1273341630 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever
< 1273341649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, heh, that's quite an insane solution
< 1273341659 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1273341663 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically zeta regularisation is stating that
< 1273341665 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :â’1/12 + â’2/12 + â’3/12 + â’4/12 + â‹Ż = 0
< 1273341672 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, wait, is it
< 1273341673 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1273341810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what does M.P. mean in English (context is voting system)
< 1273341835 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Member of Parliament
< 1273341838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1273341846 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: oh and another problem is that since _most_ people don't amend the voting lists, a tiny minority could mess up for candidates even if most people thought they were just fine.  in theory even people sabotaging for _other_ parties...
< 1273341857 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Military police" can also be a relevant word in the context of voting systems...
< 1273341864 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with downvoting, especially)
< 1273341893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, okay that is indeed a valid concern.
< 1273341899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(unlike the one you first mentioned)
< 1273341908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, XD
< 1273341943 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: actually i see you mentioned the last point above
< 1273341984 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION writes too slowly to read everything else before he hits return
< 1273342004 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1273342055 0 :Mathnerd314_!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273342073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ?
< 1273342074 0 :Mathnerd314_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Mathnerd314
< 1273342078 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: not in voting systems of countries we like to compare ourselves to ("land vi liker ĂĄ sammenligne oss med", common norwegian political phrase)
< 1273342093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh that about voting for another party just to move someone down?
< 1273342099 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yeah
< 1273342114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, it is rather a special-case of what you said
< 1273342129 0 :MizardX-!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273342129 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273342140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, btw, why don't you read while you are writing?
< 1273342146 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't you touch type? ;P
< 1273342151 0 :MizardX-!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273342179 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i don't have to watch the keys but i _do_ watch what i type
< 1273342215 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have to keep my spelling errors down _somehow_, you know
< 1273342226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay, I need to glace at what I'm writing every few words
< 1273342232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not more than that
< 1273342261 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also my touch typing is not as perfect as it once was (dammit now i'm thinking about it it gets even harder.  btw you are now breathing manually.)
< 1273342267 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just need an irc client that puts new messages really close to where you're typing
< 1273342276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, also, another thing, when you type can you see your hands moving on the keyboard? As in, not that you are looking at it, but seeing it in the "edge" of your vision?
< 1273342310 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I used to need that, so typing in the dark didn't work.)
< 1273342314 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: oh it does.  i just don't have that much concentration.  or maybe i have too much, whatever.
< 1273342324 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1273342329 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MizardX
< 1273342332 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes.
< 1273342336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I can do that nowdays, except moving my hand back to the keyboard from the mouse)
< 1273342353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, do you need to see that to be able to type?
< 1273342400 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me try to avoid it - ok i had troubles with the 'v', there
< 1273342436 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notices the new topic
< 1273342452 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically _most_ keys are automatic but not all, and my finger positioning is not stable enough
< 1273342455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, how did you avoid it? By placing something above the keyboard to hide it or such?
< 1273342499 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: by looking a bit further up than usual.  so i didn't really look at the text either, i guess.
< 1273342511 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically i'm way out of training.
< 1273342572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ah, and I would have to look way above the screen to do that. Best experiment is when it is dark. Oh and mostly black screen to reduce light from it. I suppose covering the keyboard would work too, but it might be tricky to find something suitable for that
< 1273342601 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is now typing with eyes closed
< 1273342608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, okay that worked well
< 1273342608 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes! :-)
< 1273342609 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow not a single error :)
< 1273342638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, but again that doesn't really test "not seeing hands", it tests "not seeing hands, nor screen"
< 1273342638 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can type  with my eyes closed too, though I imagine my error rate will be quite high; actually it feels very uncomfortable.
< 1273342643 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm
< 1273342644 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i had to look for the first /
< 1273342645 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darn; s/ +/ /
< 1273342648 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: next, change the keyboard layout and start over
< 1273342651 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION also test writing with closed eyes
< 1273342656 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tests*
< 1273342667 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so basically what i'm out of with touch typing is _confidence_
< 1273342683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I can type with eyes closed too, but it is slomewhat slower, and more errors
< 1273342689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, slomewhat XD
< 1273342736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, also was that a sed expression?
< 1273342738 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: no thanks
< 1273342746 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, just a random IRC excpression
< 1273342751 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273342768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ah good, because if it was sed you know that + is not "one or more" in sed. it is a literal +
< 1273342780 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would have needed /g, too.
< 1273342801 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_clearly_ it was perl s///
< 1273342802 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I only saw one double-space?
< 1273342827 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As we all know, IRC has its own regular expression and replacement syntax.
< 1273342836 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: x matches x+
< 1273342840 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh
< 1273342845 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: based on a dwim parser, presumably
< 1273342848 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since x+ = xx*
< 1273342852 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Why yes.
< 1273342853 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and {} in x*
< 1273342859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes I know
< 1273342861 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a DWIM-family language.
< 1273342869 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: and spaces came before the "  "
< 1273342872 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I did need /g.
< 1273342874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1273342884 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"be a dwit, use dwim"
< 1273342905 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah *x is actually sugar for s/\{DWIM}/x/{DWIM}
< 1273342915 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, which is basically a mix of the most common constructs from the most common dialects
< 1273342920 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where \{DWIM} determines an appropriate pattern, and the flag {DWIM} determines appropriate flags.
< 1273342927 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it's
< 1273342935 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah *x is actually sugar for s/\{DWIM}/\{DWIMeval(x)}/{DWIM}
< 1273342938 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because x can contain shorthand and such
< 1273342938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, for example I doubt negative lookbehind is very common in it
< 1273342941 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: now that alise is back, the title is incorrect?
< 1273342957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314, no it isn't?
< 1273342963 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Were you guys panicing? Aww, how cute.
< 1273342987 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :panicing? why?
< 1273343009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314, it says "alise-alert" which is completely accurate, he is here, there is thus a red alert ;P
< 1273343011 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ducks
< 1273343035 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :I love Unicode in my topics. | ĺ•ăŚĺ•ŹéˇŚă«ă¦ă‹ă‚łăĽă‰ăŚĺĄ˝ăŤă ă€‚ | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D
< 1273343053 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gives up on actually reading the logs today
< 1273343056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, which script is that?
< 1273343061 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, why?
< 1273343070 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pineapple: ???
< 1273343075 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pineapple: ... Sorry.
< 1273343083 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Japanese.
< 1273343086 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1273343086 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i've been on here for hours with them in another window, and haven't got beyond the first screen :)
< 1273343087 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Which means it's 3 different scripts.
< 1273343102 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, they are really long
< 1273343126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, where was that bit you replied to pineapple? As in, as far as I can tell pikhq haven't said anything for as many screens up as I checked (4)
< 1273343142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1273343146 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> pineapple: ... Sorry.
< 1273343149 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mishighlight.
< 1273343149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/pikhq/pineapple/
< 1273343150 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh
< 1273343158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1273343160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I see
< 1273343161 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I had a massive thinko.
< 1273343168 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Later
< 1273343175 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, *damn*.
< 1273343179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, you tried to highlight yourself or something?
< 1273343182 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was trying to highlight myself.
< 1273343202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, and why?
< 1273343202 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to drink more coffee.
< 1273343209 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't recall.
< 1273343223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, you already forgot why coffee? ;P
< 1273343240 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that.
< 1273343241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sorry, that wasn't fair, it was actually same second for both on this side)
< 1273343244 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I LIKE THE COFFEE
< 1273343260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and mine was just before yours, but I realised it could be unclear on the other end)
< 1273343265 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P
< 1273343274 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, but yeah I meant why self-highlight
< 1273343282 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I haven't a clue.
< 1273343286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1273343290 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SED, MI SXATAS LA KAFON.
< 1273343339 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ă‡ă˘ă€ă€€ăśă‚Żă€€ă‚¬ă€€ă‚łă’ăĽă€€ă‚¬ă€€ă‚ąă‚­ă€€ă€ă€‚
< 1273343378 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... boku ga kohii ga? That's... Wrong.
< 1273343401 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ă‡ă˘ă€ă€€ăśă‚Żă€€ăŹă€€ă‚łă’ăĽă€€ă‚¬ă€€ă‚ąă‚­ă€€ă€ă€‚
< 1273343404 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's better.
< 1273343936 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :â€®I love Unicode in my topics. | ĺ•ăŚĺ•ŹéˇŚă«ă¦ă‹ă‚łăĽă‰ăŚĺĄ˝ăŤă ă€‚ | â€­http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D
< 1273343952 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay for unicode override characters ;-)
< 1273344129 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=Josiah Dammit, why has my name become popular? :P
< 1273344235 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :end of the world in 2012, probably
< 1273344249 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather biblical name :p
< 1273344272 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, King Josiah was indeed in the Bible.
< 1273344372 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~chatzilla@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273344399 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My life feels empty and without meaning. Any suggestions on interesting things to do?
< 1273344421 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :curses, you just made me feel the same way
< 1273344425 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll just pirate Mathematica after all...
< 1273344443 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, don't do that
< 1273344457 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a spare copy which I (probably?) could send you
< 1273344459 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise told me to!
< 1273344468 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: err
< 1273344471 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just as illegal
< 1273344490 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It depends.
< 1273344495 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it does not.
< 1273344511 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely giving a copy you bought is legal?
< 1273344522 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol lol lol
< 1273344524 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :welcome to copyright law
< 1273344540 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: no it is not of course
< 1273344542 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is piracy
< 1273344547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well, you could give away your own copy couldn't you? Assuming you didn't keep it as well
< 1273344552 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no.
< 1273344555 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sharing copyrighted software is illegal. End of.
< 1273344565 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the very basis of copyrigth law.
< 1273344573 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's not sharing; you no longer have it.
< 1273344580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, indeed
< 1273344596 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are really naive
< 1273344602 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's an unactivated copy
< 1273344605 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, let me be more formal
< 1273344615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so does this apply to art too?
< 1273344620 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes.
< 1273344640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so you cant sell paintings on your walls?
< 1273344640 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if he has a CD with Mathematica on it, which he hasn't installed, it is illegal for him to give it to me?
< 1273344641 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Providing anyone with a copy of copyrighted material without the express permission of the copyright holder or someone authorised to give permission on their behalf, is illegal.
< 1273344645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you no longer want them?
< 1273344653 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that isn't how physical property works
< 1273344659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well that is what you saifd
< 1273344662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :said*
< 1273344663 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not
< 1273344666 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273344667 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am talking about abstract entities only.
< 1273344675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, if you no longer have a copy it is the same as selling a painting
< 1273344682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you kept it as well, that would be different
< 1273344704 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Digital information does not work that way and when you get fucked for copyright infringement don't come whining to me
< 1273344711 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes copyright law makes no fucking sense
< 1273344712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so what about cds with game on them
< 1273344713 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deal with it.
< 1273344720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :selling that cd would be legal or not?
< 1273344734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming you bought that cd before
< 1273344737 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Physical.
< 1273344750 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273344754 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not surprising that AnMaster is being an idiot but I didn't expect others to be so naive.
< 1273344759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, this makes no sense, if you erase your copy you no longer have it
< 1273344774 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Have you got it in physical form?
< 1273344774 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND COPYRIGHT LAW.
< 1273344783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it makes NO SENSE
< 1273344788 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: no
< 1273344789 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Of course it fucking doesn't
< 1273344792 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1273344796 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's applying artificial scarcity to unscarce bits
< 1273344800 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT DOES NOT MAKE ANY FUCKING SENSE
< 1273344802 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, are you sure you didn't just misunderstand it?
< 1273344802 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273344805 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that is WHY copyright law is PATHOLOGICAL
< 1273344808 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because this is too absurd
< 1273344810 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I am 100% certain that I am right.
< 1273344816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1273344876 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Indeed. You have already started asserting your superiority over all who are sceptical of your point.
< 1273344892 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because this is basic copyright law
< 1273345121 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The whole *point* of copyright is to make some non-scarce things more scarce.
< 1273345140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1273345147 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's true.
< 1273345181 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok - I have a wolfram (student) download/license, unactivated, unused, etc.
< 1273345181 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's obviously illegal to start selling photocopies of Harry Potter.
< 1273345200 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The debate is over what you can do with your own copy.
< 1273345208 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: BTW, in the US and probably also the UK, it would be perfectly legal for someone to give you a no-longer installed copy of a program.
< 1273345213 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First sale doctrine.
< 1273345224 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Mm, but copyright law muddles that immensely.
< 1273345231 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Your copy" almost entirely loses meaning.
< 1273345243 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which one of your copies? The one in memory, on disk? What Colour does it have? What? Who? Where--
< 1273345280 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: First sale doctrine has been stated to override copyright law. You must not *retain* copies of the item, but you are still free to give it to someone else
< 1273345294 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is completely asinine, yes, but that's beside the point.
< 1273345308 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. ...Surely this has to be US-only.
< 1273345313 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The UK isn't /that/ crazy...
< 1273345317 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least its insanity is consistent, surely.
< 1273345337 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, what does UK law state?
< 1273345339 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This was ruled by a court, rather than being written in law.
< 1273345362 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Regardless, it is UNACTIVATED.
< 1273345368 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, you would have to use a key generator to use it anyway.
< 1273345369 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is illegal.
< 1273345378 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as the only way for first-sale doctrine as commonly known and copyright law as written to interact without one or the other being denied.)
< 1273345380 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So honestly... just pirate it.
< 1273345410 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, so Mathnerd doesn't have the means to activate it himself?
< 1273345521 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it goes something like website->download->enter code->activate
< 1273345537 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you would have the activation codes?
< 1273345592 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I have to register it after I download it
< 1273345597 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah
< 1273345676 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, so alise is wrong about the key generator?
< 1273345690 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehm
< 1273345695 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using the student version isn't legal if you're not a student
< 1273345699 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought at least /that/ would be obvious
< 1273345702 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather
< 1273345705 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obtaining the license key
< 1273345711 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do we define "student"?
< 1273345717 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X_X
< 1273345718 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I certainly stud
< 1273345721 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y
< 1273345723 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read the fucking wolfram site, I don't know how they define it
< 1273345729 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you DO meet the criteria you can get it legally yourself anyway
< 1273345787 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: "Available to those working toward a high school, associate's, bachelor's, master's, doctoral, or equivalent degree"
< 1273345820 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...so if you are doing that...
< 1273345823 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just get a damn student license!
< 1273345826 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're not... it's illegal!
< 1273345876 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you don't care... Might as well pirate! Arrrr!
< 1273345903 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
< 1273345911 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I now understand the logistics of pirating :p
< 1273345911 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.
< 1273346068 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
< 1273346071 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION rapes and pillages
< 1273346124 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273346127 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has come out of this even less certain of things than he was before.
< 1273346178 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All I know is that copyright law is even stupider than I thought it was.
< 1273346248 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: who exactly are you raping and pillaging? it seems hard to do over the internet :p
< 1273346267 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like the Freenode network topology.
< 1273346274 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You *don't* want to know.
< 1273346440 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: you don't want to know.
< 1273346470 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273346506 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@150.140.229.33 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273346525 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273346568 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :explain why I wouldn't want to know
< 1273346629 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You *don't* want to now why you *don't* want to know.
< 1273347127 0 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273347157 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, alise is here!
< 1273347246 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, Phantom_Hoover: suppose I did in fact know, because I convinced you to tell me. what arguments would my future self give my current self for why I wouldn't want to know what my future self knew?
< 1273347257 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: stop trying to sound clever
< 1273347259 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1273347276 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the answer, little man, is that you *don't* want to know the reasons
< 1273347320 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sincerely doubt my future self would say that
< 1273347330 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course.
< 1273347338 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't know the truth.
< 1273347384 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you did, you would beg your past self not to find out.
< 1273347384 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: that is only because you are in denial.
< 1273347401 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is don't-want-to-knows all the way down, Mathnerd314.
< 1273347410 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What did I miss? This sounds interesting.
< 1273347423 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You *don't* want to know.
< 1273347435 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes :D
< 1273347461 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: (it's just fluff)
< 1273347487 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: but *how* would I beg my past self? what arguments would I use?
< 1273347529 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You *don't* want to know.
< 1273347530 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You would be incapable of telling your past self, out of compassion.
< 1273347632 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, in similar situations, I've heard similar things, and know that I would be able to tell my past self something more substantial than that I am incapable of telling my past self anything
< 1273347657 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what you *think*.
< 1273347669 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's what I *know*
< 1273347670 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You *don't* want to know why you're wrong.
< 1273347682 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: those things were not the Infinite Tower of Despair.
< 1273347689 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only the Infinite Tower of Despair satisfies this infinite chain.
< 1273347699 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't want to know. All you could say: You don't want to konw.
< 1273347704 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The truth: You don't want to know.
< 1273347754 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :context?
< 1273347766 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You *don't* want to know.
< 1273347772 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read the logs
< 1273347797 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could, but you *don't* want to know what's in them.
< 1273347798 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how far back? i can't tell the signal to noise ratio
< 1273347837 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suffice to say that you neither want to know the Freenode network topology nor who alise is raping.
< 1273347843 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And pillaging!
< 1273347851 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And being generally ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR towards.
< 1273347858 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He *didn't* want to know that.
< 1273347859 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pineapple: this is /all/ noise...
< 1273347883 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But perhaps there is signal in it that you *don't* want to know/
< 1273347918 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The signal is hidden in the timestamps.
< 1273347935 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: stop with the wanting already. I know what I want at this current moment, and I want to know
< 1273347947 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah; internet is out
< 1273347958 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But once I tell you, you *won't* want to have known.
< 1273348003 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: so... how does my future self convince me?
< 1273348023 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He would beg if he could.
< 1273348048 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so he says, "I beg you... don't want to know!"
< 1273348073 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In theory.
< 1273348086 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, he would also be unable to speak.
< 1273348144 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really unconvincing
< 1273348152 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course.
< 1273348168 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you can talk and presumably know
< 1273348170 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be convincing, I would have to tell you things that you *don't* want to know.
< 1273348193 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you *don't* want to know what happened to me.
< 1273348199 0 :alise_!~alise@91.105.83.9 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273348213 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1273348243 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the symptoms cannot be worse than the disease...
< 1273348264 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is how bad the disease is.
< 1273348281 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1273348297 0 :alise_!~alise@91.105.83.9 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273348303 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yess it works
< 1273348308 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get 6.8 mbit/s, woo
< 1273348315 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now lose the beard?
< 1273348402 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: So will you be pirating Mathematica now?
< 1273348406 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes.
< 1273348411 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1273348422 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You *don't* want to know.
< 1273348424 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was on 3g stick before
< 1273348425 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := slow
< 1273348429 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Ł15/gb
< 1273348444 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you would have been as well buying it.
< 1273348483 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :813.4 KiB/s
< 1273348492 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man this is the best connection i've ever had
< 1273348493 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: not quite :P
< 1273348523 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: so can I get physically harmed by knowing?
< 1273348540 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You *don't* want to know.
< 1273348590 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: this scythe fan is terrible
< 1273348597 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it's a yes or no question, with a very small amount of damage either way
< 1273348611 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: you *don't* want to know what i'm going to do to you with a cucumber if you don't stop saying that...
< 1273348612 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: the yate loons are far better
< 1273348628 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: ok
< 1273348639 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: The answer is neither yes nor no.
< 1273348675 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, so it's completely illogical.
< 1273348686 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course.
< 1273348782 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so therefore, as a logical being, I am immune to it.
< 1273348840 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you really think you're a logical being, you've got something wrong.
< 1273348846 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm being serious.
< 1273348861 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you're a *very* sophisticated bot.
< 1273348903 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I've been reading a lot of http://www.lesswrong.com/. So I should be pretty logical by now
< 1273348930 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reading Less Wrong does not automagically make you logical.
< 1273348958 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I *feel* logical
< 1273348975 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Hah, I knew you were reading Less Wrong.
< 1273348981 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though of course there's no logical way to *prove* I'm logical
< 1273348986 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you *aren't*. Humans are innately illogical.
< 1273348994 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Smart people there. Very smart. Effect on most people: verbose meanderings that just show someone trying to seem logical.
< 1273348996 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: false.
< 1273349005 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm?
< 1273349038 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :false, as in, what you said is false.
< 1273349048 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, not every human is insane
< 1273349049 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :humans are not ""innately"" illogical, we just have several built-in biases that make being logical more work.
< 1273349069 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would define that as innate.
< 1273349081 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: can I just recommend that you avoid talking authoritatively about rationality until you've developed it a bit more and got over the initial lesswrong rush?
< 1273349086 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: but it is still possible to be logical.
< 1273349098 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. But we aren't logical beings.
< 1273349239 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I strongly doubt that LessWrongers never act illogically.
< 1273349310 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course
< 1273349315 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg. mathematica is downloaded /already/
< 1273349319 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is like sex on wheels
< 1273349360 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would ask what on earth you meant, but I know what you'd say.
< 1273349445 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my connection
< 1273349449 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently it has something to do with cars
< 1273349452 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is like sex, moved by a contraption of wheels
< 1273349529 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION installs
< 1273349609 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now installing...
< 1273349609 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[                                                                             ]
< 1273349612 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strange that nothing happens.
< 1273349625 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you just Google it and find a torrent?
< 1273349744 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, now it is going.
< 1273349865 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I just used torrentz.com, lazy as I am, and found http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/4566766/WOLFRAM.RESEARCH.MATHEMATICA.V7.0.LINUX-EDGEISO
< 1273349870 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which includes a keygen that works with wine
< 1273349903 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And when The Government come to murder you in your sleep?
< 1273349950 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, wolfram hasn't started litigation yet
< 1273349961 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Yet.*
< 1273350053 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's pretty hard to sue someone who's not actively downloading
< 1273350067 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh; the GUI is rendering in Windows-y colours.
< 1273350103 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah; the linux port is not that good, I hear
< 1273350175 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't.
< 1273350178 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux ports are *never* that good.
< 1273350179 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it isn't as laggy as last time, at least.
< 1273350332 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273350370 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You made me look, so; the upgrade from the student Mathematica to the retail Mathematica has a 75 % discount, which is not too shabby.
< 1273350393 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course the retail price *is* 3185 EUR, so it's still not exactly cheap.
< 1273350409 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or 3980 EUR for the Solaris version.)
< 1273350416 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WtH are you paying for??
< 1273350446 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I.E. Why is it so highly priced?
< 1273350460 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sentience, I guess.
< 1273350462 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Wolfram's ego.
< 1273350473 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know many people who have bought that; though I know of two that have bought the student license, which I think was something like 70 EUR.
< 1273350500 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a *difference* between the student version and the standard one?
< 1273350521 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3115 EUR.
< 1273350547 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, actually they seem to have bumped the student price up to 150 eur for Mathematica 7.0. (I last looked at it for 6.)
< 1273350567 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's still >3keur difference.
< 1273350593 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no functional difference. But you must stop using it when you graduate.
< 1273350605 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is insanity.
< 1273350636 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, 128 EUR if you get the download version directly from Wolfram. 150 eur was our university's list price, but I think that includes a nifty installation disc.
< 1273350656 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wolfram Research must have found out about the thing that you *don't* want to know.
< 1273350688 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should go into the den, where I have a working computer.
< 1273350717 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather than just using my phone in my room
< 1273350776 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, what's the student price for Flash. If it's free, I just might get it.
< 1273350781 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be interesting to know their license revenues, though of course they won't tell you that.
< 1273350830 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Adobe's general student discount is about 80% off the retail price.
< 1273350839 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could just use Flex or something, though.
< 1273350880 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Save up to 80% off the full retail price* with Adobe Student and Teacher Editions â€” full commercial versions at low prices for students and now teachers, too."
< 1273350882 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"* Prices are subject to change without notice and are for qualified education customers only. Reseller prices may vary."
< 1273351156 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1273351186 0 :pgimeno!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1273351230 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the default privmsg message.
< 1273351236 0 :cal153!~cal@c-24-4-207-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273351363 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~chatzilla@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273351756 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1273352004 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~chatzilla@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273352008 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION heres some music that he associates with a game that he now knows to be a Bejeweled clone
< 1273352262 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate leer
< 1273352264 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read
< 1273352395 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: also look at instructions.png (in diff. lang) in the keygen dir
< 1273352398 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and use wine for the keygen
< 1273352524 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, nice desktop computer with a weaker processor than my phone
< 1273352574 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arguably, I'm falling into the clockspeed=better trap, but it is an old computer
< 1273352774 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273353335 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In[16]:= Fibonacci'[n]
< 1273353335 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                     2 n
< 1273353335 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out[16]= (GoldenRatio    Log[GoldenRatio] + Cos[n Pi] Log[GoldenRatio] +
< 1273353335 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 
< 1273353335 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                                           n
< 1273353336 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>      Pi Sin[n Pi]) / (Sqrt[5] GoldenRatio )
< 1273353339 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone know how to disable this wrapping?
< 1273353372 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps it would be best for a Mathematica bot to use InputForm:
< 1273353376 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In[2]:= InputForm[Fibonacci'[n]]
< 1273353376 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out[2]//InputForm=
< 1273353376 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(GoldenRatio^(2*n)*Log[GoldenRatio] + Cos[n*Pi]*Log[GoldenRatio] +
< 1273353376 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Pi*Sin[n*Pi])/(Sqrt[5]*GoldenRatio^n)
< 1273353418 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TETRIS!
< 1273353441 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Yes? Tetris.
< 1273353456 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the MIDI playing on my phone right now, a Tetris midi
< 1273353614 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In[1]:= Limit[Fibonacci[n+1]/Fibonacci[n], n->Infinity] // InputForm
< 1273353614 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Limit::ztest1: Unable to decide whether numeric quantity
< 1273353614 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    -Log[2] + 2 Log[1 + Sqrt[5]] - Log[3 + Sqrt[5]]
< 1273353614 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :     is equal to zero. Assuming it is.
< 1273353614 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out[1]//InputForm= (1 + Sqrt[5])/2
< 1273353619 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those error messages are way too verbose for IRC.
< 1273353826 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273353859 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~chatzilla@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273354050 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back in ~20mins
< 1273354103 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273354174 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
< 1273354224 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know what isn't boring?
< 1273354240 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION messages noog
< 1273354241 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a
< 1273354826 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273355347 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I put out a huge collection of unlabelled MIDI files, how many people would help label them?
< 1273356182 0 :AndChat|!~AndChat@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273356200 0 :AndChat|!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1273356206 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1273356268 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo coi la uorygl
< 1273356269 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coi la uorygl
< 1273356277 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Ex-Chat
< 1273356279 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darn, I did that wrong.
< 1273356280 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo coi la uorygl
< 1273356281 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coi la uorygl
< 1273356286 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There, much better.
< 1273356287 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate coi
< 1273356288 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considered
< 1273356296 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273356302 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think Google will do Lojban.
< 1273356311 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"coi" means "hello" and "la" means "that-which-is-named".
< 1273356342 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know Lojban?
< 1273356354 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some, yeah.
< 1273356365 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :F My Connection
< 1273356399 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I chose this nick so that other people who know Lojban might know that I know Lojban.
< 1273356410 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it's a very Lojban name.
< 1273356412 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does it mean?
< 1273356420 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is it just stylistic?
< 1273356428 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a transcription of the English word "warrigal".
< 1273356463 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see that the Pirate Party has some opposition.  In Finland, there has been started a Ninja Party.
< 1273356543 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, Finland.
< 1273356565 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2.2/20100316074819]
< 1273357008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> alise: BTW, in the US and probably also the UK, it would be perfectly legal for someone to give you a no-longer installed copy of a program. <-- that was what I was talking about all the time -_-
< 1273357165 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back
< 1273357264 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, it appears that over half of all Finns know English.
< 1273357318 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As do most Swedes.
< 1273357334 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting.
< 1273357334 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-34-17-217.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273357347 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oranjer!
< 1273357352 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hola?
< 1273357355 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1273357364 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hola, Oranjer.  ÂżCĂłmo te va?
< 1273357383 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beats me, just a greeting
< 1273357423 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see.
< 1273357430 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep yep
< 1273357448 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate ÂżCĂłmo te va?
< 1273357450 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How are you doing?
< 1273357463 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I could divine that
< 1273357468 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm doing great
< 1273357478 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bueno.
< 1273357479 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :va?
< 1273357486 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Va" means "goes".
< 1273357501 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, "How does it go for you?"
< 1273357512 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :literally, yes
< 1273357514 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273357532 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shhh, stop speaking linguistics, it's augur
< 1273357543 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This isn't linguistics.
< 1273357571 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Puedo hablar de linguistics si lo quiero.
< 1273357584 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was about to be
< 1273357624 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vamos a ver, parece que se llama "lingĂĽĂ­stica" en espaĂ±ol.
< 1273357632 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How difficult to type.
< 1273357679 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lingĂĽĂ­stica
< 1273357716 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AquĂ­, tengo que teclear "l i n g opt-u u opt-e i s t i c a".
< 1273357735 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a compose key.
< 1273357763 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess my option key is pretty much the same as your compose key.
< 1273357773 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"l i n g compose-"-u compose-'-i s t i c a"
< 1273357781 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except my option key makes slightly less sense.  U is a diaeresis, E is an acute accent.
< 1273357811 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to enable a compose key
< 1273357831 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, really, I already have to know two different ways to make characters
< 1273357835 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shift-altgr was what I had by default.
< 1273357883 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pero es mejor que cuando mi tecla de opciĂłn era una tecla de meta y tenĂ­a que cambiar mi keyboard layout cada vez que querĂ­a teclar un special character.
< 1273357936 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate Pero es mejor que cuando mi tecla de opciĂłn era una tecla de meta y tenĂ­a que cambiar mi keyboard layout cada vez que querĂ­a teclar un special character.
< 1273357938 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it&#39;s better than when my option key was a key goal and had to change my keyboard layout whenever I wanted to click a special character.
< 1273357952 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Close enough.
< 1273357960 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate tecla de meta
< 1273357962 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :key goal
< 1273357975 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate meta de tecla
< 1273357976 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :key goal
< 1273357994 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does it think "tecla de meta" is "key goal" and not "goal key"?
< 1273358042 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273358047 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273358528 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1273358733 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate spanish
< 1273358742 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it reminds me of high school
< 1273358875 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... okay, I'm looking for a new language for my Agora reports; can anyone offer suggestions?
< 1273358946 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want something with good databasing powers, but isn't as obtuse as SQL
< 1273358960 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and neither do I want to use SQL as the storage layer and something else as the processing layer
< 1273359674 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: hmm...
< 1273359689 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: well, it doesn't need to be a database. it will fit fine into a regular structure
< 1273359695 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1273359702 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might want something LINQish though
< 1273359704 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: Probably just because you ended up "learning" it in high school.
< 1273359720 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I say Haskell you will probably maul me...
< 1273359722 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, frankly, high school language classes tend to suck if you want to actually learn a language.
< 1273359725 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate Spanish.
< 1273359737 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just makes me want to claw people's eyes out
< 1273359738 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: I considered it, but that means I have to set up all the key associations manually
< 1273359744 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Eh?
< 1273359746 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1273359752 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just put the referenced object in directly.
< 1273359757 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then have every object keep track of its number.
< 1273359759 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Easy.
< 1273359766 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly, I don't want to have to do that
< 1273359768 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get out of the relational mindset.
< 1273359771 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: What?
< 1273359778 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to specify what objects are contained in other objects...
< 1273359780 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's effectively relational though
< 1273359804 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, I can't store the player datastructure directly in the office datastructure
< 1273359811 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because multiple offices may share a player
< 1273359830 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must store some identifying piece of information about that player (id or name) and then look that up in the set of players
< 1273359842 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: do you have a particular reason for hating Spanish?
< 1273359854 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like this to be done transparently, e.g. pointers
< 1273359860 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: everything said in Spanish sounds stupid
< 1273359873 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just as everything in Latin, profound
< 1273359880 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: nopeee
< 1273359887 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: you don't need one global reference to a player
< 1273359888 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting.
< 1273359895 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: huh?
< 1273359897 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about stuff in Lojban, or Finnish?
< 1273359899 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is wrong with having two identical "coppro" objects in two offices?
< 1273359901 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't need pointers
< 1273359901 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"quidquid Latine dictum sit, altum videtur."
< 1273359912 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: If one gets updated, the other isn't necessarily updated to match
< 1273359914 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that's righ
< 1273359916 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t
< 1273359944 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Well, you have to specify what kind of update you mean. This is a functional language, after all.
< 1273359952 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: I haven't heard much/any spoken Finnish.
< 1273359954 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor much Lojban.
< 1273359996 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: let's say I change my nickname
< 1273360021 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to make sure both offices' copies of my data are changed appropriately
< 1273360032 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Simple.
< 1273360040 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: And everything written in Chinese on someone's flesh looks "cool".
< 1273360046 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: code example?
< 1273360073 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have a function "modifyPerson" that traverses all the offices etc. and does the transformation e.g. if nick=="x", replace with f(that person) in the returned structure
< 1273360075 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you do
< 1273360092 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :modifyPerson "coppro" (\x -> x{name="pooppy"})
< 1273360094 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1273360095 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :modifyPerson "coppro" (\x -> x{name="pooppy"}) game
< 1273360099 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and get the revised game state back
< 1273360107 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easy to think of things like changeNick as shorthands for these
< 1273360114 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1273360115 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, it's slightly less computationally efficient... but who gives a fuck
< 1273360115 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay
< 1273360125 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even when it's something like "ćśťé®®ć°‘ä¸»ä¸»çľ©äşşć°‘ĺ’Śĺ›˝ďĽ" (The Democratic People's Republic of Korea!)
< 1273360137 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it lets you use the expressivity and good data structure support of Haskell, and avoid pointers, which suck in Haskell.
< 1273360138 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How come having two copies of everything is better than having pointers or something?
< 1273360138 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any other suggestions from anyone present?
< 1273360138 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if anyone has ever gotten such a tattoo.
< 1273360166 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: because you can do something like "name . officeHolder"
< 1273360170 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of
< 1273360175 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"name . lookupPerson . officeHolder"
< 1273360178 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever
< 1273360178 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not necessarily two.
< 1273360179 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but!
< 1273360182 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the person can mutate
< 1273360185 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might even be in a gonad
< 1273360189 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then it gets even uglier
< 1273360252 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what gonads have to do with what appears to be Haskell
< 1273360269 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently slang for monads.
< 1273360275 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh
< 1273360344 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaannywho
< 1273360351 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no one else has any suggestions?
< 1273360353 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so monad is like
< 1273360369 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, a function with side effects that is mathematicaly valid?
< 1273360396 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: no. stop.
< 1273360402 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop even trying. learn haskell first, then monads
< 1273360415 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do not attempt to come up with explanations of monads until you are sure that you have found one that is correct, because it is almost certainly incorrect
< 1273360418 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one cannot learn haskell without knowing monads
< 1273360423 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. one can.
< 1273360426 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that is simple fact
< 1273360427 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monads are... Things that go around data.
< 1273360430 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think.
< 1273360440 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: wrong again.
< 1273360445 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah!
< 1273360455 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew once!
< 1273360468 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A monad is a pair of functions.
< 1273360491 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A data type used to represent computations.
< 1273360503 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, a monad is fmap, join and unit!
< 1273360504 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, in Haskell, a monad is a type constructor.
< 1273360539 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A monad.. I'm not going to say is, but say involves, ways to make data be part of the monad, and to combine a piece of monadized data with a function that returns monadized behavior
< 1273360548 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*data
< 1273360548 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambda calculus is pretty straightforward
< 1273360554 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :monads are not
< 1273360604 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Haskell-style-category-theory, a monad is a pair of functions.  One takes any value and returns a value in the monad's codomain.  The other takes a function taking any value, and returns a function taking a value in the monad's codomain.
< 1273360638 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell-style-category-theory is idiotic because it allows monads that are not functors.
< 1273360640 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For all a, a value of type "IO a" represents some I/O action that can be performed to yield a result of type a.
< 1273360664 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_, does anyone actually write such monads?
< 1273360668 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes.
< 1273360674 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are idiots
< 1273360675 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IO is a monad, so you can use the first function I mentioned to construct a "nop", and the second function I mentioned to string actions together.
< 1273360689 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely the functor stuff can be implemented in terms of monad functions?
< 1273360704 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes and no.
< 1273360710 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100423140709]
< 1273360710 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_, I think you have a knack for caring about things that don't matter and not caring about things that matter.
< 1273360721 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a nice opinion; I will disregard it.
< 1273360728 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But perhaps I'm overestimating how objective my opinions are.
< 1273360728 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Is that not caring about something that matters, I wonder?)
< 1273360737 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it is.  :P
< 1273360742 0 :facsimile!~e@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273360751 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usually I care about absolute precision and accuracy, so, yeah... I fail at that a ton, though.
< 1273360774 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cares about fame much more than he cares about fortune
< 1273360791 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Then you are crazy.
< 1273360795 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Celebrity is hell.
< 1273360815 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe more Torvalds-like fame rather than, say, celebrity-like fame
< 1273360832 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have a tendency to assume your values are everyone's values.  But then again, so does everyone.
< 1273360870 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I think I'd rather have "Sgeo" be famous than "Seth ...." be famous
< 1273360906 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although then I'd have to change some passwords probably.. some of them are a bit too guessable
< 1273360918 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: No, I usually just blatantly disregard everyone else's values because they're wrong.
< 1273360941 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some time ago, I guess, I decided to not bother my thinking with those unneccessary steps where I consider what other people think about whatever I'm thinking about.
< 1273360951 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're so cute.  :P
< 1273360959 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why yes, yes I am.
< 1273360967 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'd rathest be known by only one name.
< 1273360969 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1273360979 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately, I've fallen victim to the idea that one shouldn't divulge one's real name online.
< 1273360987 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, too late
< 1273361008 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems I've successfully changed the nickname-I-use-everywhere once.
< 1273361021 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My paranoia regarding that though is the reason my name isn't in the WSJ
< 1273361028 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It used to be ihope (which got disambiguated to "ihope127"); now it's Warrigal (which got disambiguated to "uorygl").
< 1273361039 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Wall Street Journal?
< 1273361042 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1273361055 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://alnk.org/rabidpage
< 1273361071 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm the "friend" of Mr. Parry
< 1273361076 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who you should know
< 1273361116 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep.
< 1273361141 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So are you the other co-founder of the Creatures wiki?
< 1273361146 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep
< 1273361149 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :creatures?
< 1273361150 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neat.
< 1273361159 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, kind of the founder, actually. GR just took over
< 1273361165 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods.
< 1273361167 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I became a severely absintee founder
< 1273361183 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shudders at the idea of some day being considered "a co-founder of Normish".
< 1273361215 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting.  I find myself hoping that Normish dies and is replaced by something else of my creation, rather than being revived by someone other than me.
< 1273361243 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1273361244 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seems kind of cruel.
< 1273361287 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/Creatures_Wiki:Administrators
< 1273361291 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also find myself hoping that somebody's wondering if some malicious part of me is reading my mind and saying unflattering things I would rather keep to myself.  :P
< 1273361367 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Imagine if that had second-person pronouns instead of first-: "Interesting.  I find you hoping that Normish dies and is replaced by something else of your creation, rather than being revived by someone other than you.  That seems kind of cruel."
< 1273361406 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should link to creatureswiki.net and not wikia.com , really
< 1273361555 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder whether my NIH beget my don't-consider-other's-thoughts or vice versa.
< 1273361603 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps both simply come from a common source.
< 1273361614 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise
< 1273361620 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I instsalled it bt it wont boot
< 1273361622 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do I do
< 1273361623 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/
< 1273361714 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :facsimile: bit vague
< 1273361720 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*begat
< 1273361746 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION listens to La Espero
< 1273361765 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least, the melody
< 1273361929 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be nice if there was a calculator that was more CASy than graphingy
< 1273362018 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has yet to change his nickname
< 1273362022 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION winneth
< 1273362040 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've changed N times.
< 1273362054 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has always been /me
< 1273362062 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where N is a non-real complex number.
< 1273362072 0 :Alex3012!~chatzilla@ool-18b989d3.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273362119 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no more alise-alert in the topic, right?
< 1273362140 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Correct.
< 1273362152 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You *can* look at the topic, you know.
< 1273362164 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait. There's Japanese in there, too. :P
< 1273362179 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Japanese is "I love Unicode in my topics."
< 1273362188 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Always, Oegs?
< 1273362213 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was hoping that that line was a palindrome
< 1273362258 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_, where'd you get Oegs from? I'm pretty sure I was Sgeo before I ever used Oegs on occasion, but my Oegs use was not switching to/from Sgei
< 1273362259 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Sgeo
< 1273362275 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I've been Sgep here before, when I've forgotten Sgeo's password.
< 1273362281 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm your mother.
< 1273362286 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...wait
< 1273362289 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION 's brain's heuristics flag too late
< 1273362292 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoops; sorry.
< 1273362339 0 :myndzi!myndzi@tengototen.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273362343 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: null
< 1273362581 0 :chickenz1lla!~chicken@olol.eu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273362759 0 :chickenzilla!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services
< 1273362764 0 :chickenz1lla!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :chickenzilla
< 1273362865 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1273362913 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1273362916 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone know of a name for the number [1; 2, 3, 4, 5, ...]?
< 1273362922 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~1.433127426
< 1273362935 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's called dicks constant
< 1273362936 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273362947 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're called dicks' constant.
< 1273362950 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1273362965 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway it's irrational and not quadratic, obviously
< 1273362975 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, like, what is it
< 1273362982 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you. [1; 2, 3, 4, 5, ...]. name it
< 1273362988 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does that syntax even mean?
< 1273363001 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are those continued fractions?
< 1273363010 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i recall e has something linear like that
< 1273363041 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1273363042 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :continued fractions
< 1273363070 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[a_0; a_1, a_2, a_3, ...] = a_0 + (1 / (a_1 + (1 / (a_2 + (1 / a_3 + ...
< 1273363120 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell foldr1 (\x y -> x + 1/y) [1..50]
< 1273363130 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.4331274267223117
< 1273363208 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://oldweb.cecm.sfu.ca/cgi-bin/isc/lookup?number=1.4331274267223117&lookup_type=simple
< 1273363220 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1273363252 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1273363252 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1273363252 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1273363253 0 :alise_!~alise@91.105.83.9 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273363259 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell foldl1 (\x y -> x + 1/y) [1..50]
< 1273363260 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273363260 0 :Deewiant!~deewiant@kekkonen.cs.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273363261 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4.499205338329423
< 1273363268 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1273363269 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1273363278 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell foldr1 (\x y -> x + 1/y) [1..50000]
< 1273363280 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.4331274267223117
< 1273363281 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell foldr1 (\x y -> x + 1/y) $ reverse [1..50]
< 1273363283 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :50.02039949385217
< 1273363295 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell foldr1 (flip (\x y -> x + 1/y)) $ reverse [1..50]
< 1273363297 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273363297 0 :Deewiant!~deewiant@kekkonen.cs.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273363297 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4.499205338329423
< 1273363319 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what is that site anyway? it's like Plouffe's inverter but less comprehensive.
< 1273363335 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I USED plouffes inverter the other day!
< 1273363352 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i think i was looking for plouffe's inverter, but google failed me then
< 1273363361 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was trying to find a number expressed in terms of sqrt(13) and mysearch program didnt get it... but plouffes inverter did
< 1273363369 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it is a better result though
< 1273363375 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because plouffe's had a ton of irrelevant crap
< 1273363384 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1273363387 0 :alise_!~alise@91.105.83.9 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273363392 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1273363448 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: ah well all the other hits are just more continued fraction stuff...
< 1273363456 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have this urge to write a program to approximate curves to write a little silly mathematical typesetter.
< 1273363460 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: most false positives
< 1273363468 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does mark ContFrac(naturals) though
< 1273363504 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I have this urge to write code for some sort of embedded CPU to make an almighty CASulator.
< 1273363515 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch the links to OEIS are borken
< 1273363521 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1273363541 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: i presume most of those sequences are things _starting_ with 1,2,3... for a good number of terms
< 1273363564 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1273363732 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh the continued fraction for e isn't that simple, it has 1,1 between 2n terms
< 1273363815 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tanh(1) is close, except with only odd numbers
< 1273363832 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now find one with only even numbers, and define the continued fraction interleaving operation
< 1273363834 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we're done!
< 1273363843 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1273363961 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION realizes he wrote borken above without noticing
< 1273364006 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(tanh(1/n) and others are listed at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continued_fraction#Regular_patterns_in_continued_fractions)
< 1273364064 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, the Bessel function is what it was looked up as.
< 1273364068 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah what the inverters gave were those bessel functions, wasn't i... right
< 1273364169 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a nice number. I like it.
< 1273364190 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think, it being unnamed, I will name it Hird's constant. Unless I think of something better to give that name to in my time, in which case it won't be called that any more.
< 1273364339 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khinchin%27s_constant
< 1273364347 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no it's not the same one)
< 1273364357 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i found it interesting
< 1273364358 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehhh
< 1273364363 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its symbol is \mathcal{H}.
< 1273364437 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://1.618034.com/blog_data/math/formula.5771.png
< 1273364458 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh fuck
< 1273364475 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga :: Time -> Object
< 1273364487 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga saturday_night = beer
< 1273364490 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;[
< 1273364497 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't work; saturday_night is a variable
< 1273364509 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn
< 1273364521 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'' ?
< 1273364523 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you want SaturdayNight, obviously
< 1273364528 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes
< 1273364531 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then Beer
< 1273364534 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably
< 1273364545 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga SaturdayNight = Beer
< 1273364605 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Generalised Hird constant:
< 1273364621 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :H_n = n + (1 / (n + 1 + (1 / n + 2 + (1 / (n + 3 + ...
< 1273364627 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :H = H_1; 1/H = H_0.
< 1273364662 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes I think I may be just that little bit /too/ clever.
< 1273364666 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1273364771 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does Mathematica fail so hard that it won't even evaluate H numerically?
< 1273364783 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In[6]:= N[ContinuedFractionK[k, {k, 0, Infinity}]]
< 1273364783 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out[6]= ContinuedFractionK[k, {k, 0., \[Infinity]}]
< 1273364790 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1273364923 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In[15]:= hird /.
< 1273364923 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : RSolve[hird[n + 1] == n + 1 + (1/hird[n]), hird, n][[1]]
< 1273364924 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out[15]= Function[{n}, (BesselI[-1 + n, -2] + n BesselI[n, -2] +
< 1273364924 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    BesselK[-1 + n, 2] C[1] + n BesselK[n, 2] C[1])/(BesselI[n, -2] +
< 1273364924 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    BesselK[n, 2] C[1])]
< 1273364925 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's better
< 1273364943 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: erm precedence fail in that H_n i think
< 1273364970 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably you want 1 / (, not (1 /
< 1273364971 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, missed a paren before (n + 2
< 1273364978 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1273364985 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets talk about finitism
< 1273365023 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hird[n_] := (BesselI[-1 + n, -2] + n BesselI[n, -2] +
< 1273365023 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    BesselK[-1 + n, 2] + n BesselK[n, 2])/(BesselI[n, -2] +
< 1273365023 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    BesselK[n, 2])
< 1273365025 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :facsimile: no.
< 1273365030 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1273365033 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I like it
< 1273365034 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh what
< 1273365036 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: hm you realise H_n = n + 1/H_{n+1} ?
< 1273365037 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In[24]:= N[Hird[1]]
< 1273365037 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out[24]= -0.649798
< 1273365044 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh n+1
< 1273365046 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right :P
< 1273365046 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm reading a book about finite group theory
< 1273365048 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its nice
< 1273365056 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In[25]:= hird /.
< 1273365056 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : RSolve[hird[n + 1] == n + 1 + (1/hird[n + 1]), hird, n][[1]]
< 1273365056 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out[25]= Function[{n}, 1/2 (-Sqrt[5 + 2 (-1 + n) + (-1 + n)^2] + n)]
< 1273365057 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WOW
< 1273365060 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is even nicer!!!!
< 1273365075 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no silly Bessel nosiree just good ol' sqrts
< 1273365094 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In[29]:= N[Hird[1]]
< 1273365095 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out[29]= -0.618034
< 1273365097 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT IS NOT WHAT I WANTED
< 1273365109 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sill yrabbit.
< 1273365113 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*silly rabbit
< 1273365113 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait
< 1273365118 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made another mistake lol
< 1273365134 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ReplaceAll::reps: {hird[n]==n+1/hird[1+n]} is neither a list of replacement rules nor a valid dispatch table, and so cannot be used for replacing. >>
< 1273365135 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well uh
< 1273365137 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck you
< 1273365138 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there
< 1273365150 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OERJAN COME UP WITH A NICE EXPRESSION FOR IT THX
< 1273365162 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when in doubt, consider a mathematician to be your computer.
< 1273365164 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sheesh
< 1273365185 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HEY it's a law, I named it so I can't do the work about it
< 1273365200 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that responsibility falls unto /you/, who will be shafted by history
< 1273365218 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell scanr1 (\n x -> n + 1/x) [1..50]
< 1273365220 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[1.4331274267223117,2.30878937306624,3.2384534159000498,4.193691234094797,5.162856257658906,6.14038425280805,7.123306068860268,8.109900909526315,9.09910577000782,10.090229861703257,11.082805416334763,12.07650470540765,13.071091440344299,14.066391047318163,15.062271803120291,16.05863247717872,17.05539400888454,18.052493764882254,19.049881490555215,20.047516400759932,21.045365053054066,22.043399768719727,23.041597443938652,24.039938643221006,25.038406899
< 1273365266 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm the last few terms are not exact
< 1273365270 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell scanr1 (\n x -> n + 1/x) [1..100]
< 1273365271 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[1.4331274267223117,2.30878937306624,3.2384534159000498,4.193691234094797,5.162856257658906,6.14038425280805,7.123306068860268,8.109900909526315,9.09910577000782,10.090229861703257,11.082805416334763,12.07650470540765,13.071091440344299,14.066391047318163,15.062271803120291,16.05863247717872,17.05539400888454,18.052493764882254,19.049881490555215,20.047516400759932,21.045365053054066,22.043399768719727,23.041597443938652,24.039938643221006,25.038406899
< 1273365283 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh they were
< 1273365285 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that the successive hird numbers?
< 1273365290 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1273365291 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sadol !=$3000$3000
< 1273365292 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1
< 1273365294 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, may i note that you forgot H_0
< 1273365296 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the last one just looked truncated
< 1273365307 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell scanr1 (\n x -> n + 1/x) [0..100] -- sheesh
< 1273365308 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell scanr1 (\n x -> n + 1/x) [0..100]
< 1273365310 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[0.697774657964008,1.4331274267223117,2.30878937306624,3.2384534159000498,4.193691234094797,5.162856257658906,6.14038425280805,7.123306068860268,8.109900909526315,9.09910577000782,10.090229861703257,11.082805416334763,12.07650470540765,13.071091440344299,14.066391047318163,15.062271803120291,16.05863247717872,17.05539400888454,18.052493764882254,19.049881490555215,20.047516400759932,21.045365053054066,22.043399768719727,23.041597443938652,24.0399386432
< 1273365310 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[0.697774657964008,1.4331274267223117,2.30878937306624,3.2384534159000498,4.193691234094797,5.162856257658906,6.14038425280805,7.123306068860268,8.109900909526315,9.09910577000782,10.090229861703257,11.082805416334763,12.07650470540765,13.071091440344299,14.066391047318163,15.062271803120291,16.05863247717872,17.05539400888454,18.052493764882254,19.049881490555215,20.047516400759932,21.045365053054066,22.043399768719727,23.041597443938652,24.0399386432
< 1273365312 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lulz
< 1273365316 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell scanr1 (\n x -> n + 1/x) [0..100] :: CReal
< 1273365339 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er [CReal] ofc
< 1273365341 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :egobot doesn't have it
< 1273365341 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i doubt that EgoBot has CReal
< 1273365350 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise_> > scanr1 (\n x -> n + 1/x) [0..10] :: [CReal]
< 1273365350 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<lambdabot>   [0.6977746579640063874581706013218497243509,1.4331274267223150332875975712205324867433,2.3087893730662226112174662595471111580419,3.2384534159002329348068701459991873036222,4.19369123409157731148406
< 1273365350 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<lambdabot> 60758323982791002,5.1628562577447335811648079306071871127633,6.1403842495719992391097584173482975080845,7.1233062330623306233062330623306233062331,8.1098901098901098901098901098901098901099,9.1,10.0]
< 1273365359 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems i have found quite some nice numbers!
< 1273365368 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, isn't CReal somewhat lazy, in which case you should be able to use [0..]
< 1273365369 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1273365380 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't actually know
< 1273365384 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :H_1 = I_0(2)/I_1(2); H_2 = I_1(2)/I_2(2)
< 1273365409 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION chops off the first term again
< 1273365414 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I_2(2)/I_3(2)
< 1273365431 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so H_(n+1) = I_n(2) / I_(n+1)(2)
< 1273365440 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait CReal cannot know that the list doesn't contain something enormous negative far beyond
< 1273365451 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which, err, begs the question,
< 1273365461 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's H_0
< 1273365475 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not think there is I_-1
< 1273365479 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sadol :o:g:a0~n5?=#_4"+94SaturdayNight!"4Beer0 nooga "+94SaturdayNight
< 1273365480 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beer
< 1273365484 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yadaa
< 1273365492 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1273365501 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I_-1(2)/I_0(2) = I_1(2)/I_0(2)
< 1273365512 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically apply abs
< 1273365537 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, you know, you don't have to
< 1273365559 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In[36]:= N[Hird[50]]
< 1273365559 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out[36]= 50.0196
< 1273365559 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In[37]:= N[Hird[500]]
< 1273365559 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out[37]= 500.001996000004
< 1273365560 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool!
< 1273365565 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hird[n] is almost n as n gets big enough
< 1273365578 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, of course
< 1273365582 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it becomes
< 1273365591 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n + 1 / (n+1 + ...)
< 1273365604 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if n is sufficiently big, 1/(n+1) is tiny
< 1273365675 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could you write a function that finds any equilibrium of given list in haskell?
< 1273365697 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In[46]:= Hird[2]
< 1273365697 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out[46]= BesselI[1, 2]/BesselI[2, 2]
< 1273365697 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In[47]:= Hird[-1]
< 1273365697 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out[47]= BesselI[2, 2]/BesselI[1, 2]
< 1273365713 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :H_-n = 1/H_n
< 1273365737 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :H only clashes with harmonic numbers outside of typesetting, \mathcal ofc
< 1273365835 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait that -n conjecture is actually false.
< 1273365850 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :H_-n = 1/H_(n+1)
< 1273365905 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273365932 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate Bessel and Tchebyshev
< 1273365934 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<uorygl> Wow, it appears that over half of all Finns know English.
< 1273365941 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, heh, there are even real-indexed Hird numbers!
< 1273365944 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In[64]:= N[Hird[Pi]]
< 1273365944 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out[64]= 3.37253
< 1273365953 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a mandatory school subject in norway, i presume it's the same in finland and sweden
< 1273365964 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's even the same in Poland
< 1273365967 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think nowadays from first grade, even
< 1273365979 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my god
< 1273365981 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it was fourth grade back when i did it)
< 1273365985 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are even imaginary-indexed Hird numbers
< 1273365986 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273366004 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but here they "teach" English instead of teaching it
< 1273366006 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: what's an equilibrium?
< 1273366072 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION somehow avoided most of bessel and tchebyshev in his education, despite getting a math doctorate
< 1273366080 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless i've just forgotten it
< 1273366090 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: what is this Hird function?
< 1273366093 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: electronics, filters
< 1273366096 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Not a function; Hird numbers.
< 1273366110 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is this Hird numbers?
< 1273366131 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It started with H = [1; 2, 3, 4, 5, ...] (continued fraction). Now I have successfully generalised it to H_n for natural n = [n; n+1, n+2, n+3, ...]; Mathematica decided to take that further. Definition:
< 1273366159 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: i mean the answer is obviously yes if it's computable at all
< 1273366167 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :H_n = I(n-1, 2)/I(n, 2); I is the modified Bessel function of the first kind.
< 1273366174 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where I(a,b) = I_a(b).
< 1273366178 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: equilibrium is an index i in array a that satisfies a[0..i] = a[i..last]
< 1273366185 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm...
< 1273366194 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Known properties: H_n gets close to n as n increases; H_-n = 1/H_(n+1).
< 1273366207 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just curious how it would look in haskell
< 1273366212 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: what the heck is a[0..i] and a[i..last]
< 1273366223 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: If you want to play along at home, and have a copy of Mathematica:
< 1273366225 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hird[n_] := BesselI[n - 1, 2]/BesselI[n, 2]
< 1273366225 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn, i'm drunken
< 1273366228 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :drunk
< 1273366229 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: *drunk
< 1273366230 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh :D
< 1273366231 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1273366235 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eyah
< 1273366252 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: In LaTeX, write \mathcal{H}_n.
< 1273366271 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: i'm sure i could write it if you could explain it, unless it involves fourier transforms or something like that (and even then, but i would probably be too lazy for that)
< 1273366278 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even know if my university has Mathematics.
< 1273366279 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: a[0]+a[1]+a[2]+...+a[i] = a[i]+a[i+1]+a[i+2]+...+a[n]
< 1273366283 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: *Mathematica
< 1273366295 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Well, you can also use Wolfram Alpha for most of it.
< 1273366301 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://1.618034.com/blog_data/math/formula.5801.png
< 1273366302 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :definition
< 1273366307 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did, of course, shamelessly name these after myself.
< 1273366316 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: aha, so the sum to the left == sum to the right?  but ther can only be one such index afaict
< 1273366320 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hird's constant/number is H_1.
< 1273366321 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1273366332 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The whole H_n shenanigans is the Hird numbers.
< 1273366338 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :H_72 is the seventy-second Hird number.
< 1273366350 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or Hird number 72.
< 1273366355 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just out of curiosity; isn't the convention to let someone else name stuff after you?
< 1273366394 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd imagine such "convention" has been broken before
< 1273366408 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: PROBABLY
< 1273366416 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: usually i don't talk with doctors of mathematics at night ;D
< 1273366417 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but fuck it, I'm never going to get another chance at getting something named after me
< 1273366420 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so who can blame a man?
< 1273366435 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_, so you DO like fame
< 1273366438 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're (arguably) in high school...
< 1273366438 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not as if anyone /cares/ about these numbers, being as they are basically poor approximations to n
< 1273366446 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: of the mathematical sort, sure...
< 1273366446 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you've got many years ahead of you
< 1273366450 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: SHUT UP
< 1273366461 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can call whatever else I discover the Hird2 number
< 1273366461 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n! is just a poor approximation to n^n.
< 1273366464 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus, doesn't this seem like a waste of a good name?
< 1273366468 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: No it isn't :P
< 1273366475 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it is!
< 1273366479 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: it's not as if anyone will use this name
< 1273366485 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is more of a joke than anything
< 1273366499 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a+b is also a poor approximation to max(a,b).
< 1273366511 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: btw. a[0..i].sum = a[i..-1].sum is Ruby-like notation
< 1273366528 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Everything is a poor approximation to either infinity or 0.
< 1273366531 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure if Ruby has Array#sum method by default
< 1273366533 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell let equil l = elemIndex 0 (scanl (-) (sum l) l) in equil [1,5,3,-2,2,7]
< 1273366535 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn centrists.
< 1273366542 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything is a poor approximation to both.  :P
< 1273366546 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: It does not.
< 1273366547 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1273366559 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Hey, hey, 0 is not a poor approximation to infinity, and infinity is not a poor approximation to 0.
< 1273366571 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are two ends of a circle, infinitesimally distanced; they are GOOD approximations of each other!
< 1273366590 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, CASulator!
< 1273366597 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, they're really pretty bad approximations of each other.
< 1273366604 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In what metric are they close?
< 1273366612 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell let {equil l = elemIndex 0 (scanl (-) (sum l) l)} in equil [1,5,3,-2,2,7]
< 1273366612 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: oh crat, I could swear that i used it several times, maybe it was defined in my code somewhere
< 1273366618 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crat :D
< 1273366624 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crap* crap :D
< 1273366647 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: whatever extension of the reals has infinity but not -infinity, is defined as being a circle where 0 is one end and infinity is what you get at the other side or something
< 1273366647 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm there must be an actual error there but damn if i can see it
< 1273366650 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :joined at both ends or something?
< 1273366656 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember exactly
< 1273366660 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's your metric
< 1273366662 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait
< 1273366669 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :take the naturals, tie both ends together
< 1273366671 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's your number-circle
< 1273366677 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 and infinity are right next to each other, Q.E.D.
< 1273366704 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so
< 1273366711 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mod infinit?
< 1273366713 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell equil l = elemIndex 0 (scanl (-) (sum l) l); main = print $ equil [1,5,3,-2,2,7]
< 1273366725 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1273366734 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Data.List; equil l = elemIndex 0 (scanl (-) (sum l) l); main = print $ equil [1,5,3,-2,2,7]
< 1273366737 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just 6
< 1273366741 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek
< 1273366752 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait duh
< 1273366770 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_projective_line ;; so, drop the negatives, and 0 becomes right next to infinity
< 1273366774 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So there.
< 1273366783 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe
< 1273366799 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see problems with computational complexity of that thing
< 1273366802 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION remembers reading about that in Flatterland
< 1273366849 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and I sort of fantasized about something like a "number circle" when I was in my pseudomathematician days
< 1273366882 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Define infinity equal to e^(-pi*sqrt(163)).  Boom, 0 and infinity are really close to each other.
< 1273366905 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, defining 0 and infinity to be right next to each other is a great way to get them to be right next to each other.
< 1273366911 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In[90]:= Hird[Hird[Hird[Hird[n]]]]
< 1273366911 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out[90]= BesselI[-1 +
< 1273366911 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  BesselI[-1 + BesselI[-1 + BesselI[-1 + n, 2]/BesselI[n, 2], 2]/
< 1273366911 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    BesselI[BesselI[-1 + n, 2]/BesselI[n, 2], 2], 2]/
< 1273366911 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  BesselI[BesselI[-1 + BesselI[-1 + n, 2]/BesselI[n, 2], 2]/
< 1273366912 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   BesselI[BesselI[-1 + n, 2]/BesselI[n, 2], 2], 2], 2]/BesselI[
< 1273366914 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : BesselI[-1 + BesselI[-1 + BesselI[-1 + n, 2]/BesselI[n, 2], 2]/
< 1273366916 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   BesselI[BesselI[-1 + n, 2]/BesselI[n, 2], 2], 2]/
< 1273366918 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : BesselI[BesselI[-1 + BesselI[-1 + n, 2]/BesselI[n, 2], 2]/
< 1273366919 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :abstract algebra -> interesting, esoteric, pain in the ass when you're studying
< 1273366922 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  BesselI[BesselI[-1 + n, 2]/BesselI[n, 2], 2], 2], 2]
< 1273366924 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoa.
< 1273366926 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1273366952 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, it does make sense that inf+inf is undefined
< 1273366961 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Well, if we consider the naturals as a line such that one end is 0 and the other end is infinity,
< 1273366965 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But inf+inf != 2*inf
< 1273366970 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION headaches
< 1273366979 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then a reasonable way to be able to answer questions about order on infinity would require some number to be said to be "after" infinity, I guess?
< 1273366982 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tie the circle up.
< 1273366985 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just looking for excuses.
< 1273366994 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Simple answer: Add infinity, lose mathematical properties.
< 1273367020 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinity should behave like 0
< 1273367182 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Data.List; equil l = elemIndex 0 $ zip (scanl (+) 0 l) (scanr (+) 0 l); main = print $ equil [1,5,3,-2,2,7]
< 1273367204 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Data.List; equil l = elemIndex 0 $ zipWith (-) (scanl (+) 0 l) (scanr (+) 0 l); main = print $ equil [1,5,3,-2,2,7]
< 1273367206 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing
< 1273367206 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For infinity inspiration, we should look to projective geometries.
< 1273367210 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit
< 1273367223 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Extend y = x^2 to the real projective plane, and you'll see what infinity squared is.
< 1273367245 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Data.List; equil l = elemIndex 0 $ zipWith (-) (scanl (+) 0 l) (tail $ scanr (+) 0 l); main = print $ equil [1,5,3,-2,2,7]
< 1273367248 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just 3
< 1273367256 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Hint: it's infinity.)
< 1273367257 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: yay!
< 1273367323 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i guess with negative numbers there _could_ be more than one spot
< 1273367360 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc
< 1273367367 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Data.List; equil l = elemIndices 0 $ zipWith (-) (scanl (+) 0 l) (tail $ scanr (+) 0 l); main = print $ equil [1,5,3,-2,2,-2,2,7]
< 1273367369 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[3,4,5,6]
< 1273367377 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what
< 1273367421 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh that's correct i think
< 1273367461 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it is correct.... Also doctor of mathematics is solving my dumb, theoretical problem, hell yeah ;D
< 1273367480 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder how is the performance of that haskell code
< 1273367487 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what*
< 1273367490 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn
< 1273367562 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it builds sums from both the left and right
< 1273367579 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it shares the partial sums in each direction
< 1273367618 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so shouldn't be more than linear
< 1273367647 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey oerjan didn't solve /my/ problem
< 1273367648 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the list from left is probably never physically built
< 1273367654 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: what problem?
< 1273367689 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my Hird numbers stuff :P
< 1273367708 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i may have implied i don't know anything about bessel numbers
< 1273367714 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither do I :P
< 1273367736 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people are computers too
< 1273367765 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not particularly good computers. I doubt we can easily store GBs of data in memory for random access
< 1273367782 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In[107]:= FullSimplify[Hird[n] - n]
< 1273367783 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out[107]= BesselI[1 + n, 2]/BesselI[n, 2]
< 1273367784 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :v. interesting
< 1273367784 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so it does not build left and right sums for every index?
< 1273367831 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: yes it does, but it uses recursion on the neighbors to share the work
< 1273367882 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg, haskell is so awesome
< 1273367929 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In[135]:= FullSimplify[Hird[n]]
< 1273367929 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out[135]= Hypergeometric0F1Regularized[n, 1]/BesselI[n, 2]
< 1273367938 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say it with me now: WUT.
< 1273367961 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could say WUT for everything that you've pasted today
< 1273367967 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funny, so could I.
< 1273367971 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weak Unified Theory!
< 1273367972 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because this notation means nothing
< 1273367977 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: basically scanl (+) and scanr (+) are like foldl (+) and foldr (+) (which both sum lists), except they also give you a list of _all_ the partial sums
< 1273367993 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1273368008 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :starting from left and right respectively
< 1273368016 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree with oerjan
< 1273368018 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :way too awesome
< 1273368029 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: means nothing how
< 1273368036 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's either mathematica or just plain ascii mathematical notation
< 1273368055 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hypergeometric0F1Regularized
< 1273368082 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's ask the guy with math doctorate: how do we define this thing?
< 1273368089 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to learn hypergeometry soon
< 1273368090 0 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-156-182.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273368095 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the heck is that
< 1273368101 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hypergeometric0F1Regularized[a,z]
< 1273368101 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the regularized confluent hypergeometric function Subscript[\[Null], 0]Subscript[F, 1](a;z)/\[CapitalGamma](a).
< 1273368104 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er
< 1273368106 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to write that nicerly
< 1273368110 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, right
< 1273368115 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 F1(a;z)/Gamma(a)
< 1273368116 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION runs away screaming
< 1273368118 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where the 0 and the 1 are subscripted
< 1273368119 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1273368121 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no fucking idea either
< 1273368134 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh
< 1273368213 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a slight memory of "hypergeometric" from statistics, i think
< 1273368216 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+1 for me
< 1273368240 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear Google: Sgeo and Geo are not synonyms
< 1273368245 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :regularized
< 1273368251 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qwhats confluent about it?
< 1273368288 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who fucking knows??
< 1273368302 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Visualize confluence relation \!\(
< 1273368303 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\(\*SubscriptBox[\(\[InvisiblePrefixScriptBase]\), \(0\)]\)
< 1273368303 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\(\*SubscriptBox[
< 1273368303 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OverscriptBox[\(F\), \(~\)], \(1\)]\)\)\[InvisibleApplication](\[Null];a;z)\[LongEqual]
< 1273368303 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\!\(\*UnderscriptBox["lim",
< 1273368303 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RowBox[{"p", "\[Rule]", "\[Infinity]"}]]\)\[ThinSpace]\!\(
< 1273368305 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\(\*SubscriptBox[\(\[InvisiblePrefixScriptBase]\), \(1\)]\)
< 1273368306 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:19 < facsimile> I agree with oerjan
< 1273368307 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\(\*SubscriptBox[
< 1273368309 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OverscriptBox[\(F\), \(~\)], \(1\)]\)\)\[InvisibleApplication](p;a;z/p):
< 1273368311 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the fuck Mathematica!
< 1273368311 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut?
< 1273368317 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly it is rendered on screen.
< 1273368320 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it doesn't make any more sense!
< 1273368322 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hypergeometric distribution is something like the binomial distribution, except you _don't_ get to pull a number twice.  or something like that.
< 1273368364 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In probability theory and statistics, the hypergeometric distribution is a discrete probability distribution that describes the number of successes in a sequence of n draws from a finite population without replacement, just as the binomial distribution describes the number of successes for draws with replacement."
< 1273368380 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :close enough, i say
< 1273368562 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: email Wolfram for explanation
< 1273368574 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear Wolfram,
< 1273368577 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  What the fuck?
< 1273368580 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yours sincerely,
< 1273368582 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Hird.
< 1273368613 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guy is named after the element that is often found in lightbulbs, how awesome is that?!
< 1273368672 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guy is named after the famous series of BesselI function numbers, how awesome is that?!
< 1273368728 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i could change my surname to Thorium or Ununhexium i would do it immediately
< 1273368746 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unununununununium
< 1273368796 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :element 1111111 seems a little unlikely to be synthesized
< 1273368816 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm maybe in neutron stars?
< 1273368857 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw. what's with LHC?
< 1273368874 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there some news about it?
< 1273368900 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing is that there is no news about it
< 1273368902 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think
< 1273368926 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is presumably doing its ordinary, longtime, boring collection of data
< 1273368943 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unununununununununununununununununium
< 1273368947 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which it will take months if not years to analyze before anyone can make real news out of it
< 1273368964 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really boring is it; how many terabytes a second?!
< 1273368970 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273368992 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You wouldn't think colliding erections would produce so much data.
< 1273368995 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well _most_ of it is boring, since interesting collisions are probably very rare :D
< 1273369020 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. That often happens with hardons.
< 1273369023 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :once i've known a guy who worked on analyzing CERN's data
< 1273369048 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have special grid for this task and he wrote some minor programs for it
< 1273369069 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: also it is still only working at half its final intended energy, iirc, and will be doing so until end of 2011, when they will take it down to upgrade it.
< 1273369092 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he said that 500TB is nothing when you're talking about CERN's toys
< 1273369100 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah works on the LHC iirc
< 1273369110 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like in france doing some sort of theoretical work
< 1273369117 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least, did work
< 1273369123 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt anything highly innovative
< 1273369155 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other friend of mine went to some weir russian CERN equivalent
< 1273369161 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: conveniently they will be skipping all of 2012 >:)
< 1273369178 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless they start it up in december to scare everyone instead
< 1273369183 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and played with some big, old accelerators and nuclear reactors
< 1273369185 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if they forget to skip it?
< 1273369209 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: that would mean running at half energy for an extra year
< 1273369211 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly, he remembers only vodka
< 1273369219 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Which, like all my other stupid questions, is an intentionally stupid question.)
< 1273369236 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the end of the world, but we don't talk about that.
< 1273369258 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hehe
< 1273369305 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Currrrrrrrrrrve approximation
< 1273369311 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um... Linear interpolation!
< 1273369314 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best rhyme ever.
< 1273369327 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/ff/Torun32m_winter.jpg/800px-Torun32m_winter.jpg :D
< 1273369332 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've been there
< 1273369335 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, for a Computer Science minor, I can take "Database", which looks bad, "System Programming", which looks worse, or "Data Communications", which I have no idea about.
< 1273369376 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the driver is 386 machine with DOS on board
< 1273369378 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The topics of the latter two classes are supposed to be abstracted out of sight.  :P
< 1273369426 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some mainframe salvaged from some soviet submarine does the data analysis
< 1273369430 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So.
< 1273369446 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders about a glyph being ((xs,ys),(xe,ye),c).
< 1273369448 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's the topic for Data Communications: "An introduction to data communications techniques, particularly as applied to computer networks. Physical media and devices, data link and network protocols, and other data communications topics will be studied."
< 1273369458 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Physical media?  Neat, I get to learn what a hard drive is.
< 1273369458 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a line from (xs,ys) to (xe,ye), curved by c.
< 1273369467 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So we can have negative/positive curves for inwards/outwards curves.
< 1273369476 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess other devices could be interesting... as could network protocols.
< 1273369485 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And 1 would be a semicircle, say.
< 1273369488 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the other two classes look icky, so I guess I'm taking this one.
< 1273369491 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With -1 being the other half of a semicircle.
< 1273369496 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coords are from 0 to 1.
< 1273369496 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: I've studied automatics and robotics, everything looks even worse there
< 1273369541 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: (xs,ys)---c-->(xe,ye)  except ---c--> is an actual curve with c above it?
< 1273369546 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The class I took this semester, "Computer Organization", was much more boring than the textbook suggests.
< 1273369552 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: something like that I guess
< 1273369562 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: studies are boring
< 1273369564 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's a semicircle:
< 1273369564 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(0, 1/2) ->@1 (1/2, 1)
< 1273369564 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1, 1/2) ->@1 (1/2, 0)
< 1273369565 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I've already ranted about that, so I won't rant about it again.
< 1273369568 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe coords from -1 to 1 is better.
< 1273369573 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A lot of things seem to do that. So I will.
< 1273369580 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: aren't classes pretty much all about studying?
< 1273369590 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's right
< 1273369607 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then a circle is:
< 1273369608 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(-1, 0) ->@1 (0,  1)
< 1273369608 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :( 1, 0) ->@1 (0, -1)
< 1273369617 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder whether this is expressive enough to draw glyphs and stuff.
< 1273369626 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm trying to write OSes, compilers and other shit that would give me credits without going to classes
< 1273369628 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might also want some sort of filling, of course.
< 1273369633 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, line thickness, basically.
< 1273369646 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Filled circular stuff might be hard?
< 1273369647 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno.
< 1273369664 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MS Paint or what, alise_
< 1273369672 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol.
< 1273369674 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except this is vector
< 1273369685 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Glyphs are pretty easy with Bezier curves, aren't they?
< 1273369691 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the idea is to be able to define fonts renderable quickly on, say, a device with an embedded cpu
< 1273369704 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think doing full bezier curves in realtime is feasible on a low powered cpu lke that
< 1273369710 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is for the CASulator
< 1273369717 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bezier curves are pretty easy, aren't they?
< 1273369721 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're just polynomials.
< 1273369725 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's definately possible
< 1273369741 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In realtime, though, rendering a bunch of text?
< 1273369745 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1273369755 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: if c is a curve from 0 to 1 in the complex plane, then z1 ->@c z2 could mean  the curve d(t) = z1 + (z2-1)c(t)
< 1273369768 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A degree-4 polynomial can be evaluated at a single point using 4 additions and 3 multiplications.
< 1273369778 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*d(t) = z1 + (z2-z1)c(t)
< 1273369783 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: cool. and?
< 1273369807 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is an awesome idea for using XMOS
< 1273369808 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: then it's just rotation and scaling in the unique possible way
< 1273369818 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Mine sounds easier to write glyphs in by hand, though :P
< 1273369828 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if you have a 640x480 screen, and evaluate a polynomial for every five pixels, that's 3*640*480/5 = 184,320 operations.
< 1273369832 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so it's fast, basically?
< 1273369834 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's pretty easy.
< 1273369835 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1273369835 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XMOS
< 1273369840 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is something postscript provides, i recall
< 1273369849 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :postscript, bah
< 1273369915 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, it may just be better to use bitmap fonts if we're using a regular calculator display.
< 1273369939 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could use E-Ink :-)
< 1273369947 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But nah; response time.
< 1273369957 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :postscript has a translation + matrix iirc, so it can also do shears and stuff
< 1273369969 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still linear/affine
< 1273369979 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like it's impossible for me to take the class I want to take next year.  No matter; I'll just take it a different year.
< 1273369986 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just multiplicatino and addition
< 1273369989 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ion
< 1273370001 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: i can't even choose my classes here
< 1273370008 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT?
< 1273370028 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and  it turns out that they try to put EVERYTHING in our heads and then it gets to a point that we know NOTHING
< 1273370030 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seems kind of strange.
< 1273370040 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's Poland ;D
< 1273370053 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whew, it's only Poland.
< 1273370065 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You forgot Poland.
< 1273370078 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot that Poland is part of Scandinavia!
< 1273370088 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats uorygl -----###
< 1273370091 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1273370096 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fint
< 1273370118 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I didn't forget anything, it's not in Scandinavia at all.
< 1273370124 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we love our poles, but they are _not_ scandinavians.  unless they move here permanently, at least.
< 1273370136 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if they move there temporarily?
< 1273370155 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then they are guest workers, usually
< 1273370159 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Poles here do all the work
< 1273370163 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: you should come and do the work
< 1273370170 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in norway too
< 1273370172 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where are you now, alise_?
< 1273370173 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shut up ;D
< 1273370211 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uk
< 1273370211 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ook
< 1273370212 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ah, well, difference: we /don't/ love our poles
< 1273370213 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEY TAKK OOR JOOBS
< 1273370215 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd expected you to be somewhere else by now.
< 1273370222 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway the magnetic poles cannot move here permanently
< 1273370228 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: A bit naive, to think moving is so easy.
< 1273370241 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: I don't take your jobs
< 1273370256 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never said it was my opinion :P
< 1273370267 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<false>Moving is very easy.  Just put your laptop in your backpack and drive somewhere.</false>
< 1273370278 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: Much like Mexicans.
< 1273370284 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DER TAKING ER JORBS
< 1273370287 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: norway still has the lowest unemployment in europe.  although they're probably shuffling some data around to make it lower, like everywhere else.
< 1273370312 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: my brother is in norway, he's studying your language AFAIR
< 1273370315 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Here, try and find accommodation in a country you're not in. Now, go.
< 1273370325 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION begins.
< 1273370338 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweden has a nice-looking web site, so I'll start there.
< 1273370347 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I know many Norwegians from our medical university, here in Poznan
< 1273370386 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: i hear the magnetic poles may be shifting towards europe, actually
< 1273370391 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet
< 1273370399 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see, do I want to work or study?
< 1273370402 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: I found accomodation in Scotland pretty fast
< 1273370412 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: how permanent?
< 1273370423 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: Where from?
< 1273370426 0 :Patashu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: MSN = Patashu@hotmail.com , AIM = Patashu0 , YIM = Patashu2
< 1273370434 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 weeks, but i think it would be fully possible to stay much longer
< 1273370452 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem was it costed something like 600 quid a month
< 1273370455 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically because moving /twice/ sounds unfun.
< 1273370485 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I almost resisted the urge to do this:
< 1273370489 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`calc 600 quid in USD
< 1273370490 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dollars? At todays exchange rates (2nd Dec 08) Ł50 = $74.75 ... US dollars? its your moms butt ... US dollars? $847.210 (as of August 4th) ...
< 1273370494 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darn.
< 1273370500 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`calc 600 GBP in USD
< 1273370501 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :600 British pounds = 888.48 U.S. dollars
< 1273370512 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, CASulator! Someone be interested? Please?
< 1273370514 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's somewhat pricy.
< 1273370518 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, where did "its your moms butt" come from?
< 1273370523 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...xD
< 1273370535 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :annd i'm not working in the UK so it was a little bit expensive
< 1273370545 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`calc 600 GBP in ZWL
< 1273370547 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_, you're going to make a physical CASculator?
< 1273370547 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :futuresource.quote.com/reference/symlist.jsp?print=true - [37]Cached - [38]Similar
< 1273370554 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Darn*./
< 1273370560 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Moving to someone in Sweden"?  How does someone move to someone in Sweden?
< 1273370563 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I want to! Probably I'd write code for an embedded CPU and simulate it on a PC first.
< 1273370576 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds interesting
< 1273370591 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But unless you're planning on making a CAS from scratch, what are you going to use?
< 1273370627 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait, it's not going to just be porting a regular CAS to an embedded CPU, is it
< 1273370641 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:59 < pikhq> nooga: Where from?
< 1273370646 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1273370656 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, making my own.
< 1273370662 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially as I'll need to code with the HW in mind.
< 1273370694 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`calc 888.48 * 300000000000000
< 1273370696 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :888.48 * 300 000 000 000 000 = 2.66544 × 10^17
< 1273370717 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.66*10^17 Zimbabwe dollars a month.
< 1273370721 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZWD works iirc
< 1273370723 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also is that new or old?
< 1273370723 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now *that's* expensive.
< 1273370728 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :new as in just before being obsoleted
< 1273370783 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just before they introduced the 4th dollar.
< 1273370834 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 4th dollar got up to an exchange rate of 255.19 to the USD before being suspended.
< 1273370877 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zimbabwe seems to be really bad at handling their currencies.
< 1273370937 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You see, their solution to the government not being able to fund municipal projects was to print more money.
< 1273370959 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they just keep doing that?
< 1273370968 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do they do that?
< 1273370976 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mugabe is not too bright.
< 1273371005 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods.
< 1273371015 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why don't they kick him out?
< 1273371031 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't think they've _tried_?
< 1273371033 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They tried.
< 1273371052 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, what's stopping them?
< 1273371074 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`calc 960*12
< 1273371075 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :960 * 12 = 11 520
< 1273371078 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1273371091 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`calc 11520*4.65
< 1273371093 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11 520 * 4.65 = 53 568
< 1273371093 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mugabe is heavily armed and capable of rigging elections.
< 1273371113 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :600 gbp huh
< 1273371135 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh.
< 1273371175 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273371248 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sleep time
< 1273371250 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good night
< 1273371306 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks at someone else's computer through his phone
< 1273371312 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mugabe's first action was to seize all the land from white people and reassign it to black people, in an attempt to undo the harm caused by colonialism.
< 1273371320 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For obvious reasons, this collapsed Zimbabwe's economy.
< 1273371326 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mugabe is fucking insan.
< 1273371328 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*insane
< 1273371331 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesome.
< 1273371349 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would you say awesome if you were one of the victims of his regime's anti-white violence...?
< 1273371356 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose people can always vote with their feet... or not?
< 1273371371 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you're that poor?
< 1273371374 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you propose to do that?
< 1273371376 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's done such land reassignments in 2000 as well.
< 1273371382 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Face it; real inescapable fascism does exist.
< 1273371399 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only way to end it is intervention or natural eventual collapse.
< 1273371406 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Needless to say, assigning farmaldn to people who don't farm is a completely and utterly *retarded* idea.
< 1273371407 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods.
< 1273371422 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Farmland, even.
< 1273371444 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO GUYZ LET'S TALK ABOUT CASULATOR
< 1273371447 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if any countries pay for travel there.
< 1273371477 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's travel bans. That close enough? :P
< 1273371499 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Want to come to our country?  We'll send an armed helicopter to you and pick you up!"
< 1273371505 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm confident that that's too good to be true.  :P
< 1273371508 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the TI-Nspire CAS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TI-Nspire) is the closest thing to the CASulator.
< 1273371518 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody even said good night
< 1273371521 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :srew you ;[
< 1273371529 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCREW* ;[
< 1273371532 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is somebody leaving?
< 1273371539 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you are.
< 1273371543 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good night, nooga!
< 1273371546 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....
< 1273371556 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and 25% of the country has AIDS, because AIDS is apparently a western plot, and those condoms make things worse.
< 1273371563 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :g'ni' nooga
< 1273371583 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, Zimbabwe sounds like a really backwards place.
< 1273371615 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's Africa. The end of colonialism there happened in such a way that *everything* got royally fucked up.
< 1273371655 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps we should bring back colonialism.
< 1273371655 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like most other places, really.
< 1273371665 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY DOES NOBODY LIKE CASULATOR
< 1273371665 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that'll make things worse.
< 1273371722 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> Mugabe's first action was to seize... <-- well not the first, but maybe the first really stupid one.  he'd had powers for decades before that
< 1273371734 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Mmm, right.
< 1273371765 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do independence movements get started?
< 1273371765 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember that vividly because it's the first action of his that is literally the *antithesis* of a good idea.
< 1273371790 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Most of the time? People with guns that are pissed.
< 1273371793 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Armies don't simply form because a bunch of people want to be in an army.
< 1273371814 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, armies form because they feel that they *must* fight.
< 1273371881 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do they get their resources, and who leads them?
< 1273371915 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any way they can, and whoever was both lucky enough and sufficiently charismatic to lead them.
< 1273371938 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods.
< 1273371991 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And how well it ends up is, well, a crapshoot.
< 1273372005 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i occasionally see Botswana (zimbabwe's next door neighbor) mentioned as one place in africa which is _not_ fucked up.  at least as far as government is concerned.
< 1273372018 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can end up with the US, or you can end up with North Korea.
< 1273372021 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1273372022 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :functional democracy and all
< 1273372052 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How well would a revolution work nowadays, given that you have all this war technology?
< 1273372069 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mugabe would crush any oppression
< 1273372073 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Oh, yeah. Botswana has a stable government and everything.
< 1273372076 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you simply can't get guns. and if you do, mugabe has more.
< 1273372106 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also 16% of Botswana has AIDS apprently
< 1273372138 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's always something :(
< 1273372148 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's because AIDS is just plain *rampant* in all of Africa.
< 1273372149 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems you could just program your technology to only work in the hands of the government.
< 1273372175 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i was reading the botswana article and i was
< 1273372176 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all
< 1273372177 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boom, the revolution guys have no technology, and they lose.
< 1273372182 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gee whiz this place does have a good government as these things go
< 1273372183 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"LOL AIDS"
< 1273372184 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1273372215 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: Having a lot of AIDS is pretty good compared to most of the rest of Africa.
< 1273372226 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tru
< 1273372233 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After all, otherwise you have a lot of AIDS *and* everything else that could be wrong.
< 1273372247 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Africa sounds like it has a lot of stuff wrong with it.
< 1273372274 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Colonialism ended in the 50s, and it ended roughly by "Fuck it, we're just leaving".
< 1273372287 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bunch of war and shit, and voila. Africa.
< 1273372288 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What a great way to end colonialism.
< 1273372305 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Bunch of war and shit".
< 1273372306 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how expensive it would be to invade Africa again.
< 1273372320 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, glossing over the details.
< 1273372327 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: Yeah. :)
< 1273372334 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's lots of them!
< 1273372367 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This thought actually ran through my head: "Let's invade Africa and govern them well until their skin--wait, skin color isn't actually determined by prosperity."
< 1273372379 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: ...
< 1273372432 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: I believe you are insane.
< 1273372564 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How's about we just make South Korea an island as a show of power and call it a day?
< 1273372643 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273372682 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh.  If you're a dual citizen, and you go to prison in one country, can the other country generally pluck you out if they want to?
< 1273372711 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it.
< 1273372727 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: No.
< 1273372733 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Discussions with pikhq lead me to believe that even as a purely British citizen in another country, the only way Britain can touch me whatsoever is if I committed a crime on British soil.
< 1273372741 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I have, then they can apply for extradition.
< 1273372756 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'd assume that someone with /dual/ citizenship would have an even stronger case to stay in the country they reside in.
< 1273372768 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I mean, like...
< 1273372793 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: They can also petition for your release *from* jail if they feel that the jailing is in some way unfair.
< 1273372799 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I commit a crime in Country A, so I go to prison there.  Country B, however, doesn't consider this a crime, and would be willing to have me as a citizen.
< 1273372806 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well that's nice :P
< 1273372808 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And stuff.
< 1273372809 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such petitioning can actually get pretty serious.
< 1273372816 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: No, that would not work.
< 1273372823 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, if you escaped to country B, country A /could/ apply for extradition.
< 1273372830 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless the crime was serious it would be denied, though.
< 1273372836 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Probably.)
< 1273372855 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe that extradition generally requires the thing to be considered a crime in whatever country you're to be extradited from.
< 1273372868 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Typically, yes.
< 1273372880 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the point is, no, you couldn't escape prison by going to another country, I don't think.
< 1273372886 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It depends on the extradition treaty.
< 1273372948 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1273372962 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, for my statement?
< 1273372971 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, uorygl's.
< 1273372973 0 :facsimile!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: facsimile
< 1273373012 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: You could escape prison by going to a country without extradition treaties.
< 1273373024 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most such countries suck *ass* though.
< 1273373037 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZIMBABWE!
< 1273373041 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it comes full-circle.
< 1273373043 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly, the thing to do is install an app on my iPhone that will teleport me to the country of my desire.
< 1273373141 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was rejected by apple sorry
< 1273373194 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, one can avoid a death sentence from, say, the US, by going to a country that doesn't extradite unless there is *0* chance of a death sentence happening.
< 1273373207 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Mexico, Canada, and the EU are all like this)
< 1273373224 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know that. That's nice of those countries.
< 1273373265 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Human rights laws mandate it.
< 1273373307 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... apparently [i.e., reddit IAmA credibility] the guy who designed the current American flag was a child abuser.
< 1273373309 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Michigan doesn't have death sentences.  Unless you commit a crime in a national park or something.
< 1273373314 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/c0ua8/i_am_the_sister_of_a_man_who_was_sexually_abused/
< 1273373315 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, the US has no extradition treaties with Taiwan, because *you can't have treaties with a country you don't recognise the existence of*.
< 1273373319 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bwahahahah.
< 1273373325 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The US doesn't recognise the existence of Taiwan????
< 1273373331 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Srsly?
< 1273373341 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: Recognising Taiwan and China are mutually exclusive.
< 1273373355 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As each claims the other's territory as their own.
< 1273373359 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if I find some product that says "MADE IN TAIWAN", it's a lie?
< 1273373362 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are they? Just recognise China-sans-Taiwan and Taiwan-sans-China, and if the China don't like it, sucks to be them.
< 1273373367 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., only the relevant territories from both
< 1273373399 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Acer, Asus, HTC, ...
< 1273373405 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :China will not have *any* relations with any organization that recognises Taiwan as an independent state.
< 1273373409 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are they listed as being in whatever database the US as?
< 1273373411 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :China?
< 1273373443 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are listed as Chinese Taipei, Taiwan, Formosa, the Republic of China, etc.
< 1273373472 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does that mean China will not threaten them?
< 1273373503 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like most countries, we go to *great* lengths to have informal relations with them while making it *perfectly* clear to the PRoC that we are merely having discussions with the rebels.
< 1273373515 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not recognising their sovereignity.
< 1273373522 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weird.
< 1273373525 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<uorygl> Does that mean China will not threaten them?
< 1273373525 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1273373537 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't declare war against a country you don't recognise!
< 1273373537 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This includes the UN.
< 1273373613 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: but they wouldn't consider it a war against another country
< 1273373629 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just an internal chinese matter
< 1273373649 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, but
< 1273373654 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(they = PRC)
< 1273373659 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if USA recognises Taiwain, then China does-not-recognise USA
< 1273373663 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore China cannot-declare-war-on USA
< 1273373689 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Amusingly, the ROC treads carefully to *not* declare itself an independent state.
< 1273373698 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They claim the same borders they had in the 40s.
< 1273373733 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, both chinas are members of the world trade organization
< 1273373750 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Headachetastic.
< 1273373768 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so taiwan _does_ have mandated free trade with the US and many other countries
< 1273373791 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: The US is required by law to defend Taiwan if the PRoC attacks.
< 1273373792 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can china be a member of WTO if WTO recognises Taiwain?
< 1273373800 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's against the axiom of China-Taiwain calculus
< 1273373802 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Taiwan
< 1273373805 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because of this, we have a permanently deployed *fleet* around Taiwan.
< 1273373814 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Just... discussing. With the rebels.
< 1273373820 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: they're technically not recognizing taiwan as a _country_, just a special region, i think
< 1273373821 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Our army. Is discussing with the rebels. At their location.
< 1273373827 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1273373827 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Permanently.
< 1273373841 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does the chinese government ever exercise any actual power in taiwain?
< 1273373843 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*taiwan
< 1273373846 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't think how they'd go about doing it
< 1273373854 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: The WTO deals with *trading entities*. Not countries. :P
< 1273373857 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273373886 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the PROC government maintains no power over the Taiwan. Just the ROC.
< 1273373916 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: on the reverse side, greenland and the fĂ¦rĂ¸yer are not part of the EU, despite being part of the kingdom of denmark
< 1273373931 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Faeroeroaeroaeryer.
< 1273373947 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wasn't even going to try to remember the english spelling.
< 1273373961 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh like that's easier
< 1273373966 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: The EU treaties generally don't apply to out-of-Europe holdings of member countries.
< 1273373985 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, aren't those considered seperate countries which *happen* to be also part of the Kingdom of Denmark?
< 1273373997 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kinda like how Australia, Canada, and the UK all have the same Queen?
< 1273373998 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: fĂ¦rĂ¸yene are in europe, most definitely, and i think greenland was in EU, then voted to secede
< 1273374010 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Polish pop star faces two years' prison for blasphemy; made negative statement about the Bible in TV interview.]]
< 1273374011 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol nooga
< 1273374031 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they do have some free trade agreement though
< 1273374035 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc
< 1273374079 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/c1je9/polish_pop_star_faces_two_years_prison_for/ ;; oh
< 1273374084 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahahah.
< 1273374107 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taiwan's membership in the WTO is as the "Separate Customs Territory of Taiwan, Penghu, Kimmen and Matsu".
< 1273374149 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: they may be considered so _now_, but i'm not sure they were so at the time denmark joined the EU
< 1273374156 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mendark.
< 1273374164 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Romething is sotten in the state of Mendark.
< 1273374173 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :greenland got a greater autonomy agreement just last year (or was it this winter?)
< 1273374178 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((I hear it's country matters))
< 1273374238 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes that Shakespeare must have been a great fan of puns
< 1273374326 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: there have been debates about removing norway's blasphemy law recently (i'm not even sure if it's been repealed or not, but i _think_ not).  it's been a sleeping law for half a century, though.
< 1273374343 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: "country matters" is hardly a pun!
< 1273374356 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More like pretty darn close to an outright uttering of a pretty serious expletive :-)
< 1273374357 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: Cunt-ry matters.
< 1273374364 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gee, you don't say.
< 1273374365 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1273374368 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm, cursing.
< 1273374398 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find it completely bizzare that the ROC *can't* change the regions that it claims.
< 1273374406 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Incidentally in the Royal Shakespeare Company production with David Tennant and Patrick Stewart that was broadcast on BBC2 on Boxing Day (-- 3 hours without interruptions, sheesh --) Tennant basically pronounces it exactly as "cuntrrrrry matters".)
< 1273374426 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Which, you know, sort of offended my innate British sensibilities. How dare they put this filth on the BBC? :P)
< 1273374438 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It they reduced their claims to just the area they control, the PROC will consider this a declaration of independence and go to war.
< 1273374453 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if ROC claims tibet or not
< 1273374472 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that the *PROC* is the government that should be declaring independence: they're the bastards who revolted against the ROC!
< 1273374477 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes.
< 1273374496 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Because they did in the 40s, and to not claim it would cause war.
< 1273374501 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, Norway has a blasphemy law?
< 1273374547 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: well a blasphemy paragraph in a law (the law of punishment, probably)
< 1273374551 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ROC_Administrative_and_Claims.png
< 1273374596 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoa, Finland has a blasphemy law, and they actually use it.
< 1273374600 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i wasn't sure when china started claiming tibet, they only invaded in the 50s didn't they, but i guess they only consider tibet's former independence a temporary lapse...
< 1273374601 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol the ROC just claims everything
< 1273374606 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF, Finland?
< 1273374612 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there should be a country that just claims the entire world
< 1273374623 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sealand should do it.
< 1273374624 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1273374626 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so "always" claimed it
< 1273374627 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure many nomics do that.
< 1273374643 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Finland, section 10 of chapter 17 of the penal code relate to blasphemy.[10][11] Unsuccessful attempts were made to rescind the section in 1914, 1917, 1965, 1970, and 1998.[12]
< 1273374643 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In 1969, Finland prosecuted Harro Koskinen for publishing a picture of his painting called Pig Messiah, which featured a crucified pig. For violating the sensibilities of a religion, Koskinen had to pay a fine.[13][14]
< 1273374644 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In 2008, the issue of religious sensibilities arose again. On 30 May 2008, Tampere District Court sentenced Seppo Lehto to two years and four months imprisonment for offences which involve hate speech and blasphemy. The court found Lehto guilty of: defamation, incitement of an ethnic group, and violating the sensibilities of a religion. The judgment said that Lehto had violated the sensibilities of Islam because he had disseminated, with insulting intentions
< 1273374644 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, better.
< 1273374645 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :, material which openly blasphemes and desecrates that which Muslims deem holy.[14] Outraged at the punishment of Lehto, Jussi Halla-aho, a Helsinki councilman, posted to the Internet in 2008 some controversial remarks about Islam and about Somalis. Those remarks induced the Helsinki District Court to order Halla-aho to trial.[15]
< 1273374648 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*North Korea* should do it.
< 1273374673 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We declare war on everyone else! MWAHAHAHAH!"
< 1273374688 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I did that in Civilization IV once.
< 1273374692 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Yes, once.)
< 1273374705 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember what happened afterward; I think I got bored and quit.
< 1273374770 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :New Canada said that the only true Canadas are Old Canada and New Canada, and that all other entities using that name are misguided.
< 1273374781 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(New Canada was the barely-played-at-all successor to Canada.)
< 1273374784 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:CountriesRecognizingROC.png Such a headache.
< 1273374804 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really remember Old and New Canada.
< 1273374816 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Old Canada was IRCNomic, which was a right fun time apart from that UPPERCASE bullshit.
< 1273374822 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, well, everything else AnMaster did.
< 1273374837 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :New Canada I believe you played for perhaps three posts, maybe 1.5 serious.
< 1273374847 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: um, what's the legend on that?
< 1273374897 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strong green = embassy
< 1273374899 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_relations_of_the_Republic_of_China
< 1273374903 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think?
< 1273375004 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strong green = embassy, light green = "just talking with the rebels, friend PROC."
< 1273375018 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_relations_of_the_Republic_of_China#List_of_countries_with_diplomatic_relations_with_the_ROC
< 1273375037 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that legend claims light green = diplomatic relations but not embassy
< 1273375044 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably consulates?
< 1273375050 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unofficial diplomatic relations.
< 1273375062 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Things like the "American Institute in Taiwan".
< 1273375088 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is itself a *massive* clusterfuck.
< 1273375116 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The American Institute is a US corporation, wholy owned by the US government, and staffed by federal employees.
< 1273375119 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And diplomats.
< 1273375163 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like I said, *great* lengths to claim we're just "talking with the rebels".
< 1273375194 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's just buy out China, Zimbabwe and North Korea.
< 1273375197 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, buy out.
< 1273375214 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :China sounds really expensive.
< 1273375218 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really, really expensive.
< 1273375225 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, the most expensive single object in the world.
< 1273375230 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except it's *multiple objects*.
< 1273375257 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Underneath China there is an inscription in the earth: "MADE IN CHINA"
< 1273375275 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's probably cheap tat.
< 1273375286 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the wall of china is basically the edge of the M
< 1273375292 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just like the inscription on the International Space Station.
< 1273375293 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only part that shows
< 1273375311 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the inscription on me that says "Made in the U.S.A.".
< 1273375314 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION displays his ear.
< 1273375334 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hawt.
< 1273375350 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say, what laws apply on the ISS?
< 1273375369 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say each person is bound by the laws of whatever country they're from.
< 1273375386 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fa/ISS_26.07.07.jpg which part is the ISS?
< 1273375392 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: I think we actually *could* buy out North Korea quite feasibly.
< 1273375414 0 :augur!~augur@c-68-54-80-152.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273375420 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: except north korea would bail out of the agreement, _after_ taking the money
< 1273375435 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION whistles innocently
< 1273375458 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gee, I don't remember the ISS looking quite so acular.
< 1273375460 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then we shoot them
< 1273375462 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with a really big gun)
< 1273375475 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think the line is meant to be the ISS
< 1273375475 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHATS THIS ABOUT LINGUISTICS?
< 1273375479 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`define acular
< 1273375481 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be ridiculous, surely
< 1273375481 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1273375481 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* ketorolac tromethamine: nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drug (trade names Acular and Toradol) that is administered only intramuscularly \        [13]wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn \
< 1273375488 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think uorygl just made up "acular"
< 1273375493 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: The ISS is under *very confusing* jurisdiction.
< 1273375493 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I'm afraid I did.
< 1273375494 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't say.
< 1273375501 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, someone who knows enough Latin will surely know what it means.
< 1273375506 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might go ask in ##latin.
< 1273375508 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Orally? (O'Rly)
< 1273375529 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, as for the ISS, we should ask an astronaut.
< 1273375565 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who should we ask?  Mike?  Jeff?
< 1273375568 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be fun if countries were on this stonkin' great big global country-stock market
< 1273375569 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe they're an anarchosyndicalist commune.
< 1273375576 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you could buy out countries and stuff
< 1273375580 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: AWESOME
< 1273375587 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/and/ they live in zero gravity, too
< 1273375593 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's not to like???
< 1273375596 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"each partner shall retain jurisdiction and control over the elements it registers and over personnel in or on the Space Station who are its nationals."
< 1273375637 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... The *modules* are under the jurisdiction of whoever made them, but the *astronauts* are under the jurisdiction of their country of origin.
< 1273375675 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which means food can change jurisdiction by being eaten.
< 1273375689 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be a lot easier to just have a bunch of National Space Stations.
< 1273375697 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What jurisdiction is the resulting feces?
< 1273375711 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Or just make it an anarchosyndicalist commune.
< 1273375714 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't a clue.
< 1273375720 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Or just make it an *independent nation*.
< 1273375721 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1273375729 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But each National Space Station would be staffed by approximately half a person.
< 1273375749 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Wow.
< 1273375750 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes to howmanypeopleareinspacerightnow.com to see how many people are in space right now.
< 1273375755 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Call the nation Space; define it to include everything except Earth.
< 1273375763 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES.
< 1273375770 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We are at war with Space.
< 1273375774 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This has the interesting consequence that Earth is not in Space.
< 1273375786 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Six.  And there are five space agencies contributing to it?
< 1273375792 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Each National Space Station would get 1.2 staff members.
< 1273375806 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Earth would be an enclave of Space, though.
< 1273375809 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: One such space agency is the ESA.
< 1273375820 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I wonder what diplomatic relationships with Space would look like.
< 1273375821 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`define aglet
< 1273375823 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* metal or plastic sheath over the end of a shoelace or ribbon \      * ornamental tagged cord or braid on the shoulder of a uniform \        [14]wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
< 1273375833 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would it recognise Taiwan or China???
< 1273375843 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, this means some modules are under 11 nation's jurisdiction simultaneously.
< 1273375857 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently aculus means aglet, metal tag, so acular would mean looking like a metal tag, presumably
< 1273375861 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Space would not allow people to recognize China as an independent nation.
< 1273375865 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*nations'
< 1273375883 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By 'acular', I meant 'needle-shaped'.
< 1273375883 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's Space's GDP????
< 1273375942 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I know what its GNP is.  Zero; nobody is a citizen of outer space.
< 1273375967 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, a lot easier than making Space an independent nation would be making the ocean an independent nation.
< 1273375971 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The United States of The Ocean.
< 1273376000 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be awesome.
< 1273376022 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, define the Ocean to include most of Space, too, under that whatsitsname doctrine down to hell and up to heaven property law thing.
< 1273376047 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So basically, start at any point in the ocean, and travel outwards. Every point travelled to by this procedure is part of the Ocean.
< 1273376059 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing is, though, Earth rotates.
< 1273376085 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then what's part of the Ocean changes as that happens.
< 1273376096 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weird.
< 1273376138 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh. The plates move too, and stuff.
< 1273376142 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although a little bit slower.
< 1273376147 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, whole galaxies shift jurisdiction daily.
< 1273376190 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now define everything not in the Ocean to be part of the nation Outer Space.
< 1273376194 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Outer because it's outside of the Ocean.
< 1273376198 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That must be confusing for people living in those galaxies.
< 1273376220 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: especially since they won't be told for millions of years
< 1273376234 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of the two recognises Taiwan; the other recognises China. Since which parts of space recognise who changes quite a lot, due to changing jurisdiction, just schedule your diplomatic meetings correctly and a landmass can have full relations with both.
< 1273376237 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Let's see.  It's 4:20 PM; that means we're currently in a nation where it's legal to smoke pot."
< 1273376279 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always thought it was 4:20 am.
< 1273376297 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the *other* nation where it's legal to smoke pot.
< 1273376298 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I couldn't imagine stoners being up at such a normal hour as 4:20 pm.
< 1273376354 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, smoking pot is legal in both the Ocean and Outer Space.
< 1273376490 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :truth
< 1273376542 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: are there any^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hwhat's the best weighted graph module in Haskell?
< 1273376584 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something in http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/pkg-list.html
< 1273376598 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/package/fgl, http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/pkg-list.html#Graphs
< 1273376608 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from that, dunno
< 1273376617 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw
< 1273376639 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://haskell.org/ghc/docs/6.12.1/html/libraries/containers-0.3.0.0/Data-Graph.html
< 1273376726 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Graph is unweighted
< 1273376727 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you don't all talk about CASulator I'm going to be very sad.
< 1273376734 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I gave you two other links.
< 1273376738 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know
< 1273376743 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going through them one by one
< 1273376746 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ctrl+F "graph" gave tons of links on the pkg-list; not sure how many are relevant.
< 1273376792 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irritating; so is the fgl
< 1273376856 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is what a classmate I'm trying to help copied off the blackboard. I can;t make much sense of it: http://pastie.org/private/afxzkbjoimumy3q4tk4kw
< 1273376889 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Just write your own?
< 1273376892 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's easy in Haskell...
< 1273376898 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I'm just lazy
< 1273376904 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: they have a broken mind. Ignore them
< 1273376907 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: easier to write than find
< 1273376915 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what sort of programmer would I be if I wasn't?
< 1273376929 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just keep changing the data structure to be more general and abstract until the functions on them are so trivial they're barely even worth being called functions
< 1273376933 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you will have reached the epitome of laziness
< 1273376939 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_, he swears that this is what was on the board
< 1273376950 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they should all be point-free, right ;)
< 1273376959 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because all you do is write down the most trivial naive definition you can think of, write down the obvious operations, then repeatedly apply "strip data constructors and add type parameters"
< 1273376961 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: probably.
< 1273376963 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: he's wrong.
< 1273376973 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like "oh it really did say Error 43.4" no it said 455.3
< 1273376983 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_, or maybe the teacher's insane?
< 1273376988 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :less likely.
< 1273376994 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more likely people are idiots
< 1273377084 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should really make a nice little editor sometime.
< 1273377396 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, I don't think anyone has named an editor iv or x yet. :-)
< 1273377981 0 :adu!~ajr@pool-173-66-16-26.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273378105 0 :soupdragon!~quantum@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273378145 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: whoa the name is back
< 1273378159 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey
< 1273378189 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey
< 1273378268 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.ted.com/talks/ray_kurzweil_on_how_technology_will_transform_us.html
< 1273378277 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is the topic backwards?
< 1273378285 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is one fact in this talk I love
< 1273378304 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When he mentions the human genome project -- just listen it's brilliant
< 1273378319 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adu: unicode right-to-left marker, i think
< 1273378404 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, so are you saying my client doesn't recognize it?
< 1273378412 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adu, actually, it does
< 1273378442 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no _my_ client doesn't recognize it.  i found out from the logs.
< 1273378457 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, so without the R2L marker, the topic would look right?
< 1273378465 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1273378478 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then why not remove the R2L marker?
< 1273378515 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a free channel.  i cannot _type_ unicode either.
< 1273378553 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adu, try selecting the topic
< 1273378561 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just as long as you keep the log link
< 1273378647 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is what I get for the hexdump: http://pastebin.com/7mm1p5Q1
< 1273378677 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is "E2 80 AE"?
< 1273378721 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know, but the topic should be in UTF-8 encoding
< 1273378768 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :E280AE = \u202E = right-to-left override
< 1273378771 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup
< 1273378866 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :I love Unicode in my topics. | ĺ•ăŚĺ•ŹéˇŚă«ă¦ă‹ă‚łăĽă‰ăŚĺĄ˝ăŤă ă€‚ | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D
< 1273378899 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's better
< 1273378943 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it look the same on your client?
< 1273379044 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's the new hexdump: http://pastebin.com/xLsrUVYV
< 1273379079 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o BTW, i love ted talks
< 1273379103 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :likewisee
< 1273379162 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ted++
< 1273379174 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adu: Looks *exactly* the same in my client.
< 1273379192 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, then your client doesn't recognize R2L overrides
< 1273379204 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks much better in my client
< 1273379219 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed, my terminal does not.
< 1273379245 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah editors suck
< 1273379247 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no I think I linked the wrong one
< 1273379248 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some "unicode terminal".
< 1273379251 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hayte them
< 1273379260 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.ted.com/talks/ray_kurzweil_announces_singularity_university.html
< 1273379266 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the one I should have linked earlier
< 1273379271 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kurzweil is a crackpot, be careful.
< 1273379293 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially how he keeps reprinting his book, setting forward his failed predictions a few years, but strangely somehow always within his expected lifetime...
< 1273379313 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's clever, yes. But he's not someone you want to go to for a balanced, sane look at the singularity or related topics.
< 1273379384 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :listen to what he says about the human genome project, that is something I had been wondering about myself for a long time
< 1273379389 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first thing I saw when i came in here was ".scipot ym ni edocinU evol I"
< 1273379398 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://fakescience.tumblr.com/
< 1273379405 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: no Flash or speakers, sorry.
< 1273379451 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The coffee bean has a distinctive smell that makes you forget how painful it is to be awake."
< 1273379455 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this site is the best!
< 1273379490 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kz8edy2JuW1qb25dg.jpg
< 1273379514 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahah http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kyz1ogCofV1qb25dg.jpg
< 1273379611 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_, try this http://math.etsu.edu/LaTeXMathML/
< 1273379628 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes i saw that in use on your blog, downside:
< 1273379641 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the results are pretty ugly, formatting-wise, using the css, compared to e.g. jsmath
< 1273379661 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay but jsmath is 800MB or something
< 1273379679 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no :P
< 1273379706 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: jsmath is "obsoleted" by mathjax, but mathjax is uglier on this ubuntu box (prettier on os x and stuff)
< 1273379730 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops 80MB
< 1273379734 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's still _huge_
< 1273379737 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jsmath is like 200 kb + 3.2 mb for sprite fonts or 7.9 mb for image fonts.
< 1273379741 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where do you get 80mb from
< 1273379747 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the website
< 1273379759 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also if you use unicode fonts or tex-fonts-on-user's-computer
< 1273379761 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just 200 kb
< 1273379765 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: link to the relevant page plz
< 1273379802 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mathjax is pretty but I am worried about the -jax bit
< 1273379809 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not actually ajax
< 1273379812 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just jsmath souped up a bit
< 1273379813 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.math.union.edu/~dpvc/jsMath/download/jsMath.html
< 1273379821 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- but mathjax output is really ugly on linux for some reason!
< 1273379830 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is a real shame :(
< 1273379837 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you show me screenshots?
< 1273379841 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"On a system with a 4K minimum file size"
< 1273379844 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh
< 1273379846 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh... my experiences with vim are funny
< 1273379848 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the sprite fonts won't do that
< 1273379852 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since they're all in one big images
< 1273379857 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only disadvantage, doesn't work with older browsers
< 1273379860 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but who cares
< 1273379861 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :half the time when I try to type something, I end up just fiddling with keys until I accidentally enter insert mode
< 1273379872 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: yeah ok the ones on their official website show the ugly, sec
< 1273379885 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mathjax.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/Ubuntu_8.10_Firefox_3.0.6_1280x960_snapshot.png
< 1273379889 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just blurry basically
< 1273379905 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not so bad
< 1273379913 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: but: mathjax is basically just jsmath with css font embedding stuff
< 1273379923 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd just use jsmath with sprite fonts tbh
< 1273379931 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jsmath is too large
< 1273379944 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :listen to me
< 1273379950 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 80mb is for image fonts because of minimum file size stuff
< 1273379952 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sprite fonts are only a few megs
< 1273379961 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh!
< 1273379968 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the /user/ never downloads 80mb; nor do you
< 1273379972 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just due to minimum-file-size on filesystems
< 1273379978 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but seriously, just use sprite fonts
< 1273379984 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody cares about old browsers :P
< 1273379987 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean you certainly don't, using mathml
< 1273380025 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and jsmath output looks impeccable ofc, since with sprite fonts/native tex fonts it's pixel-for-pixel like tex output
< 1273380033 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION plays with mathjax
< 1273380056 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm so you are saying that jsmath is best?
< 1273380091 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's best is taking over the world.
< 1273380092 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course.
< 1273380143 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are we doing today pinky?
< 1273380186 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: for now
< 1273380192 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when mathjax matures it will probably be better
< 1273380210 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jsmath+sprite fonts has had a lot of time to mature, and it renders pretty much anything you throw at it well
< 1273380212 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ everyone uses it
< 1273380235 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adu: Poit!
< 1273380240 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1273380243 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.math.union.edu/~dpvc/jsMath/jsMath-lab.html
< 1273380258 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets you play around with jsmath typesetting
< 1273380270 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :leave it as use images for symbols mostly since that's what ~everyone (who doesn't have native tex fonts) will see
< 1273380325 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise_> http://fakescience.tumblr.com/ <-- i am _sure_ the sneezing one has to be true </grumble>
< 1273380332 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :urgh yuck,
< 1273380334 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: although i'd change it to image fonts for everything, not just symbols
< 1273380337 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zooming on mathjax pixelates it
< 1273380339 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the tex look
< 1273380340 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah!
< 1273380342 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that really annoys me
< 1273380401 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: I believe that the /ideal/ solution is probably something like jsMath with native TeX fonts enabled, and a CSS @font-face to load the computer modern font from the site
< 1273380420 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that does sound good
< 1273380424 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way it'd be the best possible output for everyone, and totally scalable
< 1273380427 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want something like this for a program editor
< 1273380430 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...in fact I think you could do it!
< 1273380442 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you just add the @font-face and force-override jsMath into native TeX fonts it should work!
< 1273380449 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just using lower_case, titleCase and SCREAMCASE is not enough
< 1273380483 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Things like mathbb, mathcal - are essential in program code, but for some reason missing
< 1273380497 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uLtRaCaMeLcAsE
< 1273380547 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data UlTrAcAmElCaSe uLtRaCaMeLcAsE = UlTrAcAmElCaSe uLtRaCaMeLcAsE | AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
< 1273380549 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i BeLiEvE tHe TeRm Is ChAoScAsE 9NoT rEaLlY0
< 1273380640 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: oh I'm not sure but I think you also need to get e.g. the blackboard bold font from http://www.math.union.edu/~dpvc/jsMath/download/extra-fonts/welcome.html don't quote me on this though
< 1273380641 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for jsmath)
< 1273380642 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, a 2 hour 46min phone call
< 1273380647 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sprite version
< 1273380759 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!adduserinterp chaos haskell import Data.Char; main = interact $ concat . zipWith ($) (cycle [toLower, toUpper])
< 1273380771 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help
< 1273380772 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help <command>.
< 1273380777 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help userinterp
< 1273380778 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, I have no help for userinterp!
< 1273380780 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help userinterps
< 1273380781 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :userinterps: Users can add interpreters written in any of the languages in !help languages. See !help addinterp, delinterp, show | !userinterps. List interpreters added with !addinterp.
< 1273380784 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1273380791 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp chaos haskell import Data.Char; main = interact $ concat . zipWith ($) (cycle [toLower, toUpper])
< 1273380791 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter chaos installed.
< 1273380807 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to Reddit, non CS/Software Engineering degrees are worthless
< 1273380808 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!chaos MWAHAHAHAHAHA
< 1273380827 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grmbl
< 1273380834 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!delinterp chaos
< 1273380834 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter chaos deleted.
< 1273380862 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp chaos haskell import Data.Char; main = interact $ zipWith ($) (cycle [toLower, toUpper])
< 1273380863 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter chaos installed.
< 1273380866 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!chaos MWAHAHAHAHAHA
< 1273380869 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mWaHaHaHaHaHa
< 1273380885 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!chaos TeSt
< 1273380888 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tEsT
< 1273380925 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would seriously not think of that
< 1273380927 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!chaos test 1, 2, 3, end test.
< 1273380930 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tEsT 1, 2, 3, eNd tEsT.
< 1273380933 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think of what?
< 1273380940 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The code you wrote
< 1273380945 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I wanted to get the result you got
< 1273380949 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1273380982 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CASulator! Guys? Anyone? No?
< 1273380991 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!delinterp chaos
< 1273380991 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter chaos deleted.
< 1273380993 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_, I might buy one
< 1273381004 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats coppro -----###
< 1273381005 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol :P
< 1273381013 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hold yer horses
< 1273381014 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: anarchy and chaos
< 1273381016 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU BETTER MAKE A BETTER ONE
< 1273381048 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOLVE FOR RECURSIVE FOMRULA f(x)==:f(x)
< 1273381098 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's midnight and I haven't had dinner
< 1273381109 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's 4:58 am and I haven't got to bed.
< 1273381153 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_, !
< 1273381160 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1273381174 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: btw with native tex fonts installed and jsmath i get /exceptionally/ good rendering
< 1273381186 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am using jsmath from now on
< 1273381190 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: are you making something or not?
< 1273381196 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am
< 1273381206 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just forgetting my one-liner syntax
< 1273381243 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: two nice screenshots: http://imgur.com/1Dnsz.png; http://imgur.com/tgYHE.png
< 1273381252 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all I did was press ctrl-+ and it scaled up the fonts for me
< 1273381253 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D:
< 1273381259 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's got gaps in the bars
< 1273381261 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc I had to install the tex fonts
< 1273381270 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: i think that's the fault of whoever wrote that page
< 1273381278 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stuff like that certainly doesn't normally happen
< 1273381282 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, all of that is using native fonts, not images
< 1273381285 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's really fast and scales
< 1273381287 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION continues his unending quest of Android knowledge
< 1273381290 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it would even print properly
< 1273381299 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most people will use the sprite fonts ofc since they don't have to do anything, but still
< 1273381330 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp chaos haskell import Data.Char; main = stdGen >>= (\n -> interact $ zipWith ($) (drop n . cycle [toLower, toUpper]))
< 1273381330 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter chaos installed.
< 1273381334 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!chaos foo
< 1273381351 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!delinterp chaos
< 1273381352 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter chaos deleted.
< 1273381367 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You only need to downlaod ONE of the archives. " -- yes which one?
< 1273381387 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: getStdRandom, or something like that
< 1273381389 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp chaos haskell import Data.Char; import Random; main = stdGen >>= (\n -> interact $ zipWith ($) (drop n . cycle [toLower, toUpper]))
< 1273381389 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter chaos installed.
< 1273381391 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!delinterp chaos
< 1273381391 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter chaos deleted.
< 1273381393 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1273381395 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp chaos haskell import Data.Char; import Random; main = stdGen >>= (\n -> interact $ zipWith ($) (drop n . cycle [toLower, toUpper]))
< 1273381396 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter chaos installed.
< 1273381397 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!chaos foo
< 1273381408 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!delinterp chaos
< 1273381408 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter chaos deleted.
< 1273381417 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, you're right
< 1273381421 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp chaos haskell import Data.Char; import Random; main = getStdGen >>= (\n -> interact $ zipWith ($) (drop n . cycle [toLower, toUpper]))
< 1273381421 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter chaos installed.
< 1273381423 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!chaos foo
< 1273381426 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell :t Data.Random.stdGen
< 1273381444 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph no answer
< 1273381469 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!delinterp chaos
< 1273381469 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter chaos deleted.
< 1273381473 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ahh that is the best!
< 1273381508 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: the split in the brackets and stuff seems to be a glitch in my browser/whatever
< 1273381510 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1273381514 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: randomIO
< 1273381535 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or randomRIO if you want a range
< 1273381540 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp chaos haskell import Data.Char; import Random; main = randomIO >>= (\n -> interact $ zipWith ($) (drop n . cycle [toLower, toUpper]))
< 1273381541 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter chaos installed.
< 1273381542 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!chaos foo
< 1273381571 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erp
< 1273381573 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!delinterp chaos
< 1273381573 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter chaos deleted.
< 1273381576 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp chaos haskell import Data.Char; import Random; main = randomIO >>= (\n -> interact $ zipWith ($) (drop n $ cycle [toLower, toUpper]))
< 1273381576 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter chaos installed.
< 1273381577 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost there
< 1273381579 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!chaos foo
< 1273381592 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1273381595 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no reply this time
< 1273381606 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1273381609 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how come EgoBot chats with DCC rather than PM
< 1273381612 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!chaos foo
< 1273381616 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fOo
< 1273381620 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go
< 1273381622 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!chaos foo
< 1273381625 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fOo
< 1273381626 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp drome haskell main = do a <- getLine ; print (a ++ a)
< 1273381627 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter drome installed.
< 1273381630 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1273381631 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh
< 1273381632 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: it may be just generating too large n
< 1273381632 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!drome foobar
< 1273381637 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1273381639 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try randomRIO (0,1)
< 1273381640 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!delinterp chaos
< 1273381640 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter chaos deleted.
< 1273381656 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp chaos haskell import Data.Char; import Random; main = randomRIO (0, 1) >>= (\n -> interact $ zipWith ($) (drop n $ cycle [toLower, toUpper]))
< 1273381657 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!delinterp drome
< 1273381657 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter chaos installed.
< 1273381657 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter drome deleted.
< 1273381658 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp drome haskell main = do a <- getLine ; print (a ++ a)
< 1273381658 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter drome installed.
< 1273381659 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!chaos ć—Ąćś¬čŞžă§ä˝•ă™ă‚‹ă‹ăŞă€‚
< 1273381660 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!chaos foo
< 1273381663 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!drome foobar
< 1273381664 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ć—Ąćś¬ČŞžă§Ä˝•ă™Ă‚‹ă‹ĂŞă€‚
< 1273381665 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fOo
< 1273381666 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!chaos foo
< 1273381667 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"foobarfoobar"
< 1273381671 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fOo
< 1273381673 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!delinterp drome
< 1273381673 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter drome deleted.
< 1273381674 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!chaos foo
< 1273381678 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fOo
< 1273381684 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Wow* it screws with Japanese.
< 1273381684 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp drome haskell main = do a <- getLine ; putStrLn (a ++ reverse a)
< 1273381685 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter drome installed.
< 1273381686 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!delinterp drome
< 1273381686 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter drome deleted.
< 1273381688 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp drome haskell main = do a <- getLine ; putStrLn (a ++ reverse a)
< 1273381688 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter drome installed.
< 1273381690 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!drome foobar
< 1273381693 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foobarraboof
< 1273381696 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the source on toLower and toUpper, anyways?
< 1273381698 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it doesn't understand UTF-8
< 1273381715 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Oh, right.
< 1273381721 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it's an IO problem, until last version or so ghc did text input in latin-1
< 1273381726 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!drome I roamed under it as
< 1273381729 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I roamed under it assa ti rednu demaor I
< 1273381729 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actual proper UTF-8 handling was added in 6.12.
< 1273381736 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!drome iroamedunderitas
< 1273381739 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iroamedunderitassatirednudemaori
< 1273381746 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather than "merely not breaking it most of the time".
< 1273381747 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!drome dammit
< 1273381750 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammittimmad
< 1273381762 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!drome amanaplanac
< 1273381764 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :amanaplanaccanalpanama
< 1273381782 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: DCC is better for large files, some of the commands give you program source and stuff
< 1273381829 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I MUST SLEEP! 5:10 am! Soon!
< 1273381834 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh! You fucking idiot!
< 1273381834 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah me too
< 1273381856 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: ah you are up too
< 1273381859 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes me feel better about things
< 1273381860 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is bad
< 1273381871 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[most likely this was done automatically by our spam filtering program. the program is still learning, and may even have some bugs, so if you feel the ban was a mistake, please send a message to our site admins and be sure to include the exact name of the reddit.]]
< 1273381878 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry for making a subreddit called jsmath to try and see if i can make it work.
< 1273381882 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I would like to write up a mathematical note in jsmath
< 1273381902 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so after all this, my graph module in Haskell is doing fanstastic
< 1273381904 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two lines
< 1273381911 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: told you
< 1273381916 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are the lines?
< 1273381925 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was being sarcastic
< 1273381927 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the module declaration and a newtype
< 1273381992 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1273382002 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :replacing newtypes with types is often a good idea
< 1273382005 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :less cruft in using them
< 1273382009 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :purely functional graphs are hard to do right, i hear
< 1273382015 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? with types?
< 1273382029 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1273382029 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, that's fur sure
< 1273382031 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you don't have to do
< 1273382036 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :process (Foo x) = Foo (...)
< 1273382044 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can write more point-free, compact definitions
< 1273382069 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, vim is awesome
< 1273382074 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :am happy I decided to start learning it
< 1273382088 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: irc needs tex support
< 1273382101 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can probably hack jsmath into this client
< 1273382107 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing is nobody will use it
< 1273382118 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this client uses HTML to render IRC)
< 1273382167 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd love to be able to write in proper notation rather than hackneyed ASCII crud :)
< 1273382202 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!delinterp chaos
< 1273382202 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter chaos deleted.
< 1273382208 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a dilemmaa
< 1273382219 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it's not a dilemma it's just a problem I don't know how to solve
< 1273382224 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh?
< 1273382232 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose I could use an algebra system
< 1273382236 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :black box type thing
< 1273382241 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw you can get a latex plugin for pidgin
< 1273382242 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: we should design a CTCP extension for TeX mathmode
< 1273382255 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: easier just to replace in e.g. \(...\)
< 1273382258 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :($ is too common)
< 1273382278 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh
< 1273382281 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :less exciting
< 1273382366 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp chaos haskell import Data.Char; import System.Random; main = interact =<< zipWith ($) . map ([toLower,toUpper]!!) . randomRs (0,1) =<< getStdGen
< 1273382367 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter chaos installed.
< 1273382371 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!chaos Testing
< 1273382397 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must sleep soon
< 1273382397 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5:19
< 1273382399 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!delinterp chaos
< 1273382400 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter chaos deleted.
< 1273382434 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp chaos haskell import Data.Char; import System.Random; main = interact . zipWith ($) . map ([toLower,toUpper]!!) . randomRs (0,1) =<< getStdGen
< 1273382434 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter chaos installed.
< 1273382437 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!chaos Testing
< 1273382439 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :teStINg
< 1273382507 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm wait
< 1273382510 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!delinterp chaos
< 1273382511 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter chaos deleted.
< 1273382525 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp chaos haskell import Data.Char; import System.Random; main = interact . zipWith ([toLower,toUpper]!!) . randomRs (0,1) =<< getStdGen
< 1273382525 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter chaos installed.
< 1273382529 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!chaos Testing
< 1273382532 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tEsTInG
< 1273382607 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the !! for?
< 1273382616 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :list indexing
< 1273382625 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1273382634 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right, partial application
< 1273382712 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuckfuck
< 1273382715 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: why aren't you in bed anyway
< 1273382724 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was trying to install ubuntu
< 1273382732 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too many problems though, it didn't work
< 1273382739 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(by too many I mean one)
< 1273382793 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1273382844 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's only when you think zero is too many you have a real problem
< 1273382894 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;lbk;lvbn
< 1273382894 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hlep
< 1273382915 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In September, 2007, the so-called "monkey tree phenomenon" caused a minor social mania in Singapore. A callus on a tree resembled a monkey, and believers flocked to the tree to pay homage to the Monkey God.[3]
< 1273383141 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: go to sleep so that i can :|
< 1273383207 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gojdflgdfg
< 1273383287 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm annoyed I can't find my note
< 1273383293 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yawnwaerjnawerkj
< 1273383311 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: stop torturing me, you're feeding my stupid justification of sleep-deprival by being awake
< 1273383358 0 :ChanServ!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+o oerjan
< 1273383365 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I CAN FIX THAT
< 1273383387 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: Sleep is for mortals.
< 1273383391 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are *you* mortal?
< 1273383401 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1273383403 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: NO!
< 1273383405 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I BEG YOU
< 1273383407 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANYTHING BUT
< 1273383408 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shock! Gasp!
< 1273383408 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO
< 1273383415 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides i still have the internet
< 1273383417 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and logs
< 1273383419 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :-o oerjan
< 1273383422 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok then
< 1273383425 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would never have suspected you of being mortal!
< 1273383439 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :osdfjhisdjoiAWO HJ
< 1273383440 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose next you'll tell me oerjan is Norwegian!
< 1273383442 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KILL ME NOW
< 1273383454 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suspect alise_ of having a goal to become immortal
< 1273383463 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ffffffff not if it doesn't come with sleep
< 1273383467 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all that singularity stuff, you know
< 1273383475 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: there are rumors
< 1273383480 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: whyyy whyyyy
< 1273383490 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Hmm.
< 1273383587 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it must have ended up in the trash somehow
< 1273383599 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: WHAT ARE YOU DOING HOW ARE YOU STILL AWAKE
< 1273383690 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: no seriouslyi want to know
< 1273383711 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to write something up using jsmath
< 1273383724 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT
< 1273383730 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: you do realise i NEED to sleep
< 1273383746 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me explain something to you
< 1273383757 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'(
< 1273383759 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: If you have biological needs, you should fulfill them.
< 1273383775 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To do otherwise is either folly or extreme determination.
< 1273383778 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: CAN'T AGE OF CONSENT LOL okay cheesy joke out of the way, yes but I have a mental need to be a complete fucking idiot
< 1273383784 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depending on the scenario.
< 1273383784 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I /cannot make myself sleep/
< 1273383787 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: (x-t1)*(x-t2)=t^2-s1*t+s2 with s1 = t1 + t2, s2 = t1*t2
< 1273383792 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: NO NO NO DIE
< 1273383793 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STOP IT
< 1273383794 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STOP
< 1273383796 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s1 and s2 are symmetric polynomials
< 1273383796 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STOP YOU CRETIN
< 1273383804 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I HATE YOU FOREVER
< 1273383805 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you please calm down
< 1273383805 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: Think you could talk to someone about that?
< 1273383806 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is important
< 1273383810 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, at the unit?
< 1273383814 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1273383815 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha no it is not important :|
< 1273383822 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are killing me
< 1273383834 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: I do not demand that you make yourself sleep.
< 1273383836 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can I continue or are you going to continue making a fuss?
< 1273383842 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, you should turn off your computer.
< 1273383851 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... And your iPhone.
< 1273383852 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Uh why
< 1273383868 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: And then turn off the light.
< 1273383872 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And stare at the ceiling all night long.
< 1273383884 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a sneaking suspicion you will fail in this task, and end up sleeping instead.
< 1273383905 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Night?
< 1273383910 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The light shines in from outside.
< 1273383918 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People are probably up, some people at least; it is morning, and I am fucking tired.
< 1273383925 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, the thing is
< 1273383929 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say I had a button on my desk right now
< 1273383938 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I press it, and my computer is off, and I'm in bed
< 1273383940 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :immediately
< 1273383942 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd press it
< 1273383946 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the gap
< 1273383955 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: Oh, that.
< 1273383965 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fucking irrational mind
< 1273383968 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<SCRIPT SRC="../plugins/noImageFonts.js"></SCRIPT>
< 1273383968 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<SCRIPT SRC="../jsMath.js"></SCRIPT>
< 1273383977 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the heck, why is this not in the <HEAD>?
< 1273383980 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's inside <BODY>
< 1273383989 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, what you should do, then, is develop a strong interest in the pattern of your ceiling.
< 1273383995 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah this one is better,
< 1273383995 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<SCRIPT SRC="../easy/load.js"></SCRIPT>
< 1273384009 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: if it's in the head
< 1273384013 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the page doesn't appear until it's loaded
< 1273384018 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes html is retarded, deal with it and put it in body
< 1273384031 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: What. On my computer seat?
< 1273384047 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: No, lay in bed.
< 1273384062 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that involves shutting down the computer, getting into bed, and so many other things.
< 1273384074 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get your fucking ass in bed and enjoy the comfort thereof.
< 1273384099 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't care if you go there with the intent to sleep, *surely* you've been sitting sufficiently long that either standing or laying down would feel pretty good by now.
< 1273384118 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(though, I suspect, as it is $fucking_early there, you will doze off quickly)
< 1273384151 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sorry, my brain isn't listening to you
< 1273384154 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it's light, i can't sleep in daylight
< 1273384164 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Here are the color names most disproportionately popular among women:
< 1273384165 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   1. Dusty Teal
< 1273384165 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   2. Blush Pink
< 1273384165 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   3. Dusty Lavender
< 1273384165 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   4. Butter Yellow
< 1273384165 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   5. Dusky Rose
< 1273384167 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, pretty flowery, certainly.  Kind of an incense-bomb-set-off-in-a-Bed-Bath-&-Beyond vibe.  Well, let’s take a look at the other list.
< 1273384170 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here are the color names most disproportionately popular among men:
< 1273384172 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   1. Penis
< 1273384174 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   2. Gay
< 1273384176 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man, I have no idea how to make this note
< 1273384176 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   3. WTF
< 1273384180 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   4. Dunno
< 1273384182 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   5. Baige
< 1273384184 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :]] --xkcd blog
< 1273384194 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: ??
< 1273384196 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$foo$
< 1273384198 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\[ butt \]
< 1273384202 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jsmath does the rest
< 1273384202 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you can help me
< 1273384212 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f . g) b = f (g b) = (a->b) ->
< 1273384217 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: HAHAHAHA
< 1273384218 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did NOT mean to type that
< 1273384220 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: please kill soupdragon
< 1273384224 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: Believe me, when you are tired enough you can sleep in the daylight.
< 1273384230 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not that tired yet
< 1273384234 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also now kill soupdragon
< 1273384240 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the computer is obviously not helping.
< 1273384284 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, seriously: have you considered talking to someone about this?
< 1273384284 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://imgs.xkcd.com/blag/misc_answers.png
< 1273384292 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"i am now colour blind by choice. i can no longer see green."
< 1273384295 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you refer to an operator literally in Haskell again?
< 1273384305 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is probably a bit of a bad sleeping disorder, or some *really* low will-power.
< 1273384308 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: (+)
< 1273384311 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks
< 1273384316 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_, I need some sort of cheatsheet for jsmath
< 1273384318 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: No, not really. I'm a teenager, we hate going to sleep and we love sleep. I am a geek with pathetically bad self-control and a severe internet addiction.
< 1273384321 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: it's just latex
< 1273384329 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I know not for the latex parts
< 1273384332 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: what parts
< 1273384340 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I've considered taking melatonin supplements per advice from Less Wrong
< 1273384377 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: Not that I'm one to talk.
< 1273384383 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do I do vertical equations
< 1273384387 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like
< 1273384388 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  x
< 1273384389 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := y
< 1273384390 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y z
< 1273384392 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :op
< 1273384393 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I have had weeks where I went to bed at 5...
< 1273384394 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops*
< 1273384398 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: eh?
< 1273384403 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\begin{align*} and shit like that i guess you mean
< 1273384410 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\begin{align*}
< 1273384410 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PM.
< 1273384414 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :& x
< 1273384418 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :=& y
< 1273384419 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :=& z
< 1273384419 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1273384422 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with \\ after each lign
< 1273384423 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*line
< 1273384426 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then \end{align*}
< 1273384436 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the bit about fuchsia
< 1273384439 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really should've disambiguated that. 5AM is much easier to pull off.
< 1273384444 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: both i and ais523 have been on the sleep from 8pm--4am schedule before
< 1273384445 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is hell
< 1273384453 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though it makes classes a real bitch.
< 1273384480 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to cry :| why do i have to have another sleep-deprived sunday, this never happens friday night
< 1273384487 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just have some sort of gene that refuses to sleep sat. night
< 1273384488 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: I've hit an 8pm--4am schedule once. By having my sleep schedule push *forward* a bunch each day.
< 1273384488 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why
< 1273384490 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHYYYYYY
< 1273384509 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously: i am going to get melatonin supplements for, like, next week.
< 1273384518 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good idea
< 1273384531 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: let me guess, your brain is being geared up by using the computer a lot for the first time in almost a week?
< 1273384547 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that's a nice theory, but this sort of shit happened to me before the unit
< 1273384555 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1273384560 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know freerunner schedule, "be awake until you get tired and know you can sleep, then sleep?"
< 1273384566 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was on extreme freerunner
< 1273384577 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, the freerunner schedule...
< 1273384590 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_, http://i.imgur.com/noDzH.png this is pathetic :/
< 1273384591 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"be awake until you're so incoherent that you are not capable of logical thought for more than .5s blips, then stumble to bed and sleep for 12 hours"
< 1273384603 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: hmm what did you type for that
< 1273384606 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$$ (x-t_1)(x-t_2)(x-t_3) $$
< 1273384607 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$$ = x^3 - (t_1 + t_2 + t_3) x^2 + (t_1 t_2 + t_1 t_3 + t_2 t_3) x - t_1 t_2 t_3 $$
< 1273384616 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well don't do that
< 1273384619 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also use \[
< 1273384620 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do it like this:
< 1273384639 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: there is no alignment between consecutive $$ or \[ blocks afaik
< 1273384644 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon:
< 1273384645 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\[
< 1273384645 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\begin{align*}
< 1273384645 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : & (x-t_1)(x-t_2)(x-t_3) \\
< 1273384645 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :=& x^3 - (t_1 + t_2 + t_3) x^2 + (t_1 t_2 + t_1 t_3 + t_2 t_3) x - t_1 t_2 t_3
< 1273384645 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\end{align*}
< 1273384647 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\]
< 1273384649 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :problem solved
< 1273384656 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to put it in some kind of environment for lining things up
< 1273384663 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I guess I may have a sleeping disorder; but I sleep fine, it's just getting to bed.
< 1273384681 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow that worked!! thank you!
< 1273384700 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: Actually. Given that you are a teenager, you most certainly do have one. It's called "being a teenager".
< 1273384725 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: I said that earlier you know :-)
< 1273384733 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :align* is pretty much the go-to for any alignment job in latex
< 1273384748 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about
< 1273384752 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t_1 t_2 + t_1 t_3 + t_2 t_3
< 1273384754 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t_2 t_3 + t_1 t_3 + t_1 t_2
< 1273384756 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what?
< 1273384758 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one should I use
< 1273384762 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yes, but having serious trouble getting to bed at ALL?
< 1273384770 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: the former
< 1273384776 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t_1 t_2 is a nicer start than the more "random" t_2 t_3
< 1273384786 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: the former is nicely lexicographic
< 1273384849 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh the second _does_ have its benefits if you're combining it with more things that also have a t_1 special, t_2 special, t_3 special order, i guess
< 1273384868 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: I have on occasion.
< 1273384883 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I have almost universally.
< 1273384902 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_: Also, generally I spend at least an hour in bed before I can fall asleep.
< 1273384913 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes significantly more-so.
< 1273384915 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Me too, but I would be fine if only I could get to BED.
< 1273384932 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, now I'm mentally flaking but it feels like it's "too late" to embed myself. All the damn excuses my brain comes up with.
< 1273384944 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think a few times, I have laid in bed for 6 hours, not sleeping, and *then* slept for 8 hours.
< 1273384963 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;(
< 1273384970 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise_, mathbb looks like bold text
< 1273384976 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not stirked
< 1273384978 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like "fuck it, I'm going to fuck up my sleep schedule now."
< 1273384980 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, (. function) or (function .) is a neat Haskell syntax trick
< 1273384983 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: BECAUSE
< 1273384984 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to
< 1273384990 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.math.union.edu/~dpvc/jsMath/download/extra-fonts/welcome.html
< 1273384995 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get bbold10-sprite.zip
< 1273385005 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: IT'S POINTLESS
< 1273385008 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also some sans-serif, fraktur, ams greek, and what I think is \mathcal there
< 1273385010 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: (.).(.)
< 1273385020 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just put them in with the sprite fonts
< 1273385028 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yep
< 1273385037 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :silliness abounds!
< 1273385049 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the triple-breasted whore of Eroticon Six!
< 1273385052 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1273385071 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell :t (.)(.)(.)(.)(.)(.)(.)(.)(.)(.)(.)(.)(.)(.)
< 1273385072 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(.)(.)(.)(.)(.)(.)(.)(.)(.)(.)(.)(.)(.)(.) :: (b1 -> b -> c)
< 1273385099 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(.).(.) = (.)(.)(.)
< 1273385100 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it gave more lines in DCC
< 1273385104 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's a nearly impossible type.
< 1273385113 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Oh, that would help.
< 1273385122 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell :t (.)(.)(.)(.)(.)(.)(.)(.)(.)(.)(.)(.)(.)(.)
< 1273385122 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:04 =EgoBot> -> (a -> b1)
< 1273385122 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:04 =EgoBot>                                               -> a
< 1273385122 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:04 =EgoBot>                                               -> (a1 -> b)
< 1273385122 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:04 =EgoBot>                                               -> a1
< 1273385122 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:04 =EgoBot>                                               -> c
< 1273385123 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(.)(.)(.)(.)(.)(.)(.)(.)(.)(.)(.)(.)(.)(.) :: (b1 -> b -> c)
< 1273385157 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(b1 -> b -> c) -> (a -> b1) -> a -> (a1 -> b) -> a1 -> c , eh?
< 1273385167 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, that's *much* less crazy.
< 1273385182 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1273385190 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't get it to display mathbb correctly
< 1273385193 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pointless, perhaps, but much less crazy.
< 1273385202 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it actually repeats when you add another (.)(.)(.)(.)
< 1273385211 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc
< 1273385261 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: look
< 1273385265 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you install the fonts i told you to
< 1273385267 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the -sprite ones
< 1273385269 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the jsmath folders
< 1273385270 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1273385273 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that is why
< 1273385274 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need them
< 1273385277 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please LISTEN to me
< 1273385283 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why can't I use the bbold font
< 1273385284 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise_> http://www.math.union.edu/~dpvc/jsMath/download/extra-fonts/welcome.html
< 1273385284 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise_> get bbold10-sprite.zip
< 1273385284 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> coppro: IT'S POINTLESS
< 1273385284 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise_> also some sans-serif, fraktur, ams greek, and what I think is \mathcal there
< 1273385284 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> coppro: (.).(.)
< 1273385285 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise_> just put them in with the sprite font
< 1273385302 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it doesn't come with jsmath, just like a few other fonts. so just put them in with the jsmath files, job done
< 1273385382 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1273385388 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh. i'll go to bed
< 1273385394 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't load fonts/msbm10/def.js: Access to restricted URI denied
< 1273385397 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not good
< 1273385406 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273385603 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let us derive a formula for solutions of the general cubic with coefficients in <SPAN CLASS="math"> \mathbb{Q} </SPAN> using Galois theory.
< 1273385605 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :verbose
< 1273385633 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is very nice http://i.imgur.com/Dcz8N.png
< 1273385791 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :express the cubic formula as one equation
< 1273385792 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go
< 1273385832 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a x^3 + b x^2 + c x + d = 0
< 1273385836 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do i win?
< 1273385845 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1273386298 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273387281 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: adu
< 1273388125 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/xhLUM.png
< 1273388129 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur you like?
< 1273388290 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I freaking love jsmath it's so good
< 1273388477 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Night all
< 1273388484 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Ex-Chat
< 1273388672 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish alise could be here to see this ;'(
< 1273390221 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's not LaTeX
< 1273390231 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, for math, regular TeX will do)
< 1273390379 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: soupdragon
< 1273391999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1273392000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273393133 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night
< 1273394847 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273396659 0 :mre!~Agent@203.109.165.173 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273396780 0 :aox!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1273396785 0 :mre!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :aox
< 1273396886 0 :mre!~Agent@203.109.165.173 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273397042 0 :aox!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1273397043 0 :mre!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :aox
< 1273397742 0 :aox!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1273397788 0 :Akamaru!~Akamaru@unaffiliated/akamaru JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273398185 0 :aox!~Agent@203.109.165.173 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273398606 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273399009 0 :aox!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi folks. Is anyone here into Malbolge?
< 1273399456 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I am leaving. You are about to explode.
< 1273400718 0 :cheater3!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1273401339 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273401669 0 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-156-182.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273401775 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~chatzilla@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273401778 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALZZx1xmAzg&fmt=
< 1273401791 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel that this is relevant to yesterday's discussion.
< 1273403223 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273403303 0 :cheater2!~cheater@ip-80-226-239-199.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273406669 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@150.140.229.33 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273407831 0 :mre!~Agent@203.109.165.173 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273407945 0 :aox!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1273407952 0 :mre!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :aox
< 1273408218 0 :reitheti!~reitheti@ver27-1-88-172-38-169.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273409963 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: we've had like 100 discussions yesterday
< 1273410433 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Correct!
< 1273412014 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've got a german guy in my flat
< 1273412020 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's my roommate
< 1273412027 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :flatmate*
< 1273412066 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he talks on skype all the time and listens to techno, but then he leaves to his office because he's an accounter
< 1273412478 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273412525 0 :reitheti!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Quitte
< 1273415030 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :urks, skype
< 1273415402 0 :aox!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: aox
< 1273417939 0 :Patashu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: MSN = Patashu@hotmail.com , AIM = Patashu0 , YIM = Patashu2
< 1273418212 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@ppp-94-64-158-198.home.otenet.gr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273418922 0 :alise!~alise@91.105.83.9 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273418933 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<soupdragon> Can't load fonts/msbm10/def.js: Access to restricted URI denied
< 1273418939 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you did something incorrectly :P
< 1273418982 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:56:49 <aox> Hi folks. Is anyone here into Malbolge?
< 1273418992 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody is in to malbolge, it is too hard to be "in" to, but yes, we have Malbolge theorists here
< 1273418995 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :among them, oerjan
< 1273419351 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:13:23 <soupdragon> Let us derive a formula for solutions of the general cubic with coefficients in <SPAN CLASS="math"> \mathbb{Q} </SPAN> using Galois theory.
< 1273419352 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude
< 1273419354 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$\mathbb{Q}$
< 1273419357 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works
< 1273419384 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:04:32 <soupdragon> I wish alise could be here to see this ;'(
< 1273419385 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fff
< 1273419386 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you did it wrong
< 1273419388 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:30:21 <coppro> but it's not LaTeX
< 1273419389 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is
< 1273419394 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it renders a v. large subset of latex
< 1273419397 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with computer modern fonts
< 1273419430 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good morrow, alise.
< 1273419437 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOUPDRAGON DID IT WRONG
< 1273419438 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAARRRRRRR
< 1273419493 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, 1 + 4 + 9 + 16 + ... = 0.
< 1273419509 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, more precisely, sum(n=0, inf) n^2 = 0.
< 1273419544 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Disgusst.
< 1273419807 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In[20]:= FinDeriv[If[x<0,-1,If[x==0,0,1]],x]
< 1273419808 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out[20]= \[Piecewise]1	x==-1||x==0
< 1273419808 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2	-1<x<0
< 1273419808 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0	True
< 1273419812 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good to know :P
< 1273420060 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In[35]:= FinDeriv[3^x, x]
< 1273420060 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out[35]= 2 3^x
< 1273420060 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In[36]:= FinInteg[2 3^x, {x, x}]
< 1273420060 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out[36]= 3^x
< 1273420061 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my lord
< 1273420066 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it actually does proper integration on it
< 1273420071 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FinDeriv[x_, v_] := Simplify[(x /. {v -> v + 1}) - x]
< 1273420071 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FinInteg[e_, {v_, x_}] := Sum[e /. {v -> y}, {y, -\[Infinity], x - 1}]
< 1273420106 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+c
< 1273420295 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1273420338 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know why I said that.
< 1273420510 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100423140709]
< 1273420793 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone here good with mathematica?
< 1273420868 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, coppro is wrong; most of the "plain TeX" maths you use is from latex/ams-latex.
< 1273420889 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you write "a \over b" for \frac{a}{b}
< 1273420943 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.kohala.com/start/troff/v7man/eqn/eqn2e.ps eqn is pretty fun as the non-latex formatters go
< 1273420955 0 :soupdragon!~quantum@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273421188 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon:
< 1273421191 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: you know that div math stuff?
< 1273421193 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get rid of it!
< 1273421194 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$foo$ works
< 1273421201 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you have to add one more js include, don't remember
< 1273421206 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can use $foo$ and \[...\] (or $$ if you must)
< 1273421243 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ \zeta_3 $ doesn't work
< 1273421254 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1273421255 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not
< 1273421273 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't interpret it as LaTeX
< 1273421287 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: http://www.math.union.edu/~dpvc/jsMath/authors/tex2math.html
< 1273421297 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   <BODY onLoad="jsMath.ConvertTeX(); jsMath.Process()">
< 1273421332 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so should I change <SCRIPT SRC="../jsMath-3.6e/easy/load.js"></SCRIPT> ?
< 1273421336 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, leave that
< 1273421339 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it automatically loads everything you need
< 1273421359 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: question
< 1273421366 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have the SCRIPT at the bottom of the page right?
< 1273421369 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just before </body>
< 1273421372 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise, it will lag page loading
< 1273421383 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, move it there if it's not, then just change the body line to
< 1273421390 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<SCRIPT> jsMath.ConvertTeX() </SCRIPT> works
< 1273421396 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1273421403 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have the <SCRIPT SRC> at the bottom of the page though?
< 1273421411 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because browsers are stupid and stop loading the page until they completely process the script
< 1273421413 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you need it at the end
< 1273421414 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but it also works in HEAD
< 1273421419 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right; but it's slower
< 1273421431 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: my /second/ piece of news
< 1273421443 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did finite calculus in Mathematica, and it can do indefinite finite integration!
< 1273421455 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it /works/
< 1273421461 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you implemented it?
< 1273421481 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1273421571 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: here's the code
< 1273421572 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FinDeriv[x_, v_] := Simplify[(x /. {v -> v + 1}) - x]
< 1273421572 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FinInteg[x_, v_] := Sum[x /. {v -> a}, {a, -\[Infinity], v - 1}]
< 1273421575 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, all two lines of it
< 1273421586 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :caveat with FinInteg; your variable cannot be "a"
< 1273421587 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it uses a
< 1273421591 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure how to avoid that problem, but who cares
< 1273421592 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that is clever
< 1273421618 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In[73]:= FinDeriv[34^(x/3), x]
< 1273421618 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out[73]= 34^(x/3) (-1 + 34^(1/3))
< 1273421618 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In[74]:= FinInteg[%, x]
< 1273421618 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out[74]= -((34^(2/3 + x/3) (-1 + 34^(1/3)))/(-34 + 34^(2/3)))
< 1273421618 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In[75]:= FullSimplify[%]
< 1273421619 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out[75]= 34^(x/3)
< 1273421624 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm ok it should have a simplify around it
< 1273421642 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yikes, not even simplify does it; just fullsimplify
< 1273421645 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's slow...
< 1273421646 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well
< 1273421649 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's in our topic?
< 1273421668 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In[79]:= FinDeriv[34^(x/3), x]
< 1273421668 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out[79]= 34^(x/3) (-1 + 34^(1/3))
< 1273421668 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In[80]:= FinInteg[%, x]
< 1273421668 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out[80]= 34^(x/3)
< 1273421670 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup, it works.
< 1273421691 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: oh, and it even does ridiculously clever things
< 1273421691 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In[81]:= FinInteg[(2^x)/x, x]
< 1273421692 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out[81]= -2^(-1 + x) HurwitzLerchPhi[1/2, 1, 1 - x]
< 1273421811 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: one issue is that it can't integrate "1"
< 1273421817 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. delta (x)
< 1273421818 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1273421836 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: because that's "sum(a=-inf, x-1) 1"
< 1273421837 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about 1^k
< 1273421847 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope; that simplifies to 1
< 1273421848 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then let k = 1 afterwards
< 1273421854 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1273421859 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope
< 1273421861 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simplifies to 1
< 1273421873 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: I wonder what technique I should use to integrate 1?
< 1273421883 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: I mean, the problem is negatives
< 1273421885 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like summing
< 1273421894 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1-1/k)^(1-k)
< 1273421897 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... + -3 + -2 + -1 + 0 + 1 + 2 + ... + x
< 1273421901 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then let k = 0
< 1273421907 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what mathematica doesn't realise
< 1273421910 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait that wont work
< 1273421915 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that the negative/positive terms are irrelevant
< 1273421918 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depending on what input it gets, yeah?
< 1273421923 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1-k)^(1-k)
< 1273421926 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then let k = 0
< 1273421929 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try that
< 1273421937 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: Mathematica will usually just complain about any sum with free variables, treating them as constants and optimising anyway.
< 1273421947 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In[99]:= FinInteg[(1 - k)^(1 - k), x]
< 1273421947 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :During evaluation of In[99]:= Sum::div: Sum does not converge. >>
< 1273421947 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out[99]= \!\(
< 1273421947 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\*UnderoverscriptBox[\(\[Sum]\), \(a = \(-\[Infinity]\)\), \(\(-1\) +
< 1273421947 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   x\)]
< 1273421948 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\*SuperscriptBox[\((1 - k)\), \(1 - k\)]\)
< 1273421959 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, there's no possible way it could evaluate it.
< 1273421970 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1-k)^(-(1-k)^3)
< 1273421972 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops
< 1273421973 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1-k)^(-(1-k)^2)
< 1273421975 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try this noe
< 1273421995 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway as far as i can tell
< 1273421997 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the sum is wrong anyway
< 1273422001 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In[102]:= Sum[1, {k, 0, 10}]
< 1273422001 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out[102]= 11
< 1273422001 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In[103]:= Sum[1, {k, -1, 10}]
< 1273422001 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out[103]= 12
< 1273422001 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In[104]:= Sum[1, {k, -2, 10}]
< 1273422002 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out[104]= 13
< 1273422004 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In[105]:= Sum[1, {k, -3, 10}]
< 1273422006 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out[105]= 14
< 1273422008 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the result would be ... infinity
< 1273422014 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in a sense this summation method CANNOT integrate 1
< 1273422034 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: same result
< 1273422036 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't fool it :)
< 1273422084 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: what is the definition of falling powers again?
< 1273422240 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x^_3_ = x(x-1)(x-2)
< 1273422291 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so x^_0_ = 1; x^_1_ = x; x^_n_ = x * (x-1)^_(n-1)_
< 1273422342 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FallingPow[__, 0] := 1
< 1273422342 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FallingPow[x_, 1] := x
< 1273422342 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FallingPow[x_, n_] := x FallingPow[x - 1, n - 1]
< 1273422345 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do believe
< 1273422442 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :App'rntly not; that yields 0 for all inputs.
< 1273422444 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why?
< 1273422480 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1273422482 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see why.
< 1273422484 0 :Gregor-L!~Gregor@75-151-73-57-Spokane.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273422489 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOOD EVENING GENTLEMEN
< 1273422522 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh!
< 1273422525 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something is broken.
< 1273422544 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FEKK. How is it that I've been gone for only a few days, and already my webernets at home went kablooie
< 1273422688 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: I got my falling power definition very wrong
< 1273422690 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I am sad
< 1273422691 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey wait
< 1273422693 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can write it as
< 1273422705 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prod(k=0, x-1) x-k
< 1273422719 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait
< 1273422726 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n
< 1273422728 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait soupdragon
< 1273422732 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's 7^_4_
< 1273422761 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 or 1?
< 1273422778 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7*6*5*4
< 1273422831 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, so i'm doing it in reverse order
< 1273422843 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so let's see that's (7-0)(7-1)(7-2)(7-3)
< 1273422849 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :I love Punycode in my topics. | xn--v8jad0f7b6z4eoa6v0hk534a7hlwhnnl8s. | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D
< 1273422855 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's product of (7-k) for k in 0 to n-1.
< 1273422858 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that is exactly what i have.
< 1273422862 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FallingPow[x_, n_] := Product[x - k, {k, 0, n - 1}]
< 1273422869 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanna ask oerjan or oklopol something
< 1273422889 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :product(k=0, 3) 7-k = (7-0)(7-1)(7-2)(7-3) = 7 6 5 4
< 1273422892 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did I do wrong??
< 1273422912 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is it coming out to 0?
< 1273422956 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf the product works
< 1273422972 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Undef@FallingPow
< 1273422979 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean FallingPow=.
< 1273422981 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: ok then here is a question
< 1273422984 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is 4^_7_
< 1273422988 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No I don't but whatever
< 1273422997 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 * 3 * 2 * 1 * 0 * -1 * -2?
< 1273422999 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. 0?
< 1273423001 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: okay
< 1273423006 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll just restart mathematica actually
< 1273423011 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is too freaky
< 1273423057 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-L: Nice work.
< 1273423086 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In[6]:= FinDeriv[FallingPow[x, n], x]
< 1273423086 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out[6]= -(((-1)^n n Gamma[-1 + n - x])/Gamma[-x])
< 1273423086 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In[7]:= FinDeriv[FallingPow[n, x], x]
< 1273423086 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out[7]= (-1)^x n (Pochhammer[1 - n, -1 + x] + Pochhammer[1 - n, x])
< 1273423089 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: good to know right?
< 1273423099 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no :(
< 1273423104 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mathematica starts doing crazy shit when it doesn't assume integrality
< 1273423106 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: why no :(
< 1273423111 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your "FallingPow" is x!/(x-n)!
< 1273423125 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can't realize that the best way to express it is in terms of this newly defined functin
< 1273423140 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: that's because it doesn't work for non-integers, I think
< 1273423141 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or Binomial[x,n]*n!
< 1273423152 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Well, I know that falling powers are related to binomials.
< 1273423158 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So maybe it is right.
< 1273423310 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It's what I do.
< 1273423319 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heheh.
< 1273423326 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: anyway of course it can't automatically do that
< 1273423346 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise - it could at least try
< 1273423351 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In[18]:= FinDeriv[FallingPow3[x, n], x] == n*FallingPow3[x, n - 1]
< 1273423351 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out[18]= (n x Gamma[x])/Gamma[2 - n + x] == (n x!)/(1 - n + x)!
< 1273423351 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In[19]:= FullSimplify[%]
< 1273423351 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out[19]= True
< 1273423369 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273423377 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In[20]:= FallingPow3[x + 1, n] - FallingPow3[x, n]
< 1273423377 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out[20]= -(x!/(-n + x)!) + (1 + x)!/(1 - n + x)!
< 1273423380 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ without the fullsimplify
< 1273423383 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: no, it couldn't
< 1273423385 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the function has to be opaque
< 1273423387 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1273423387 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :transparent
< 1273423391 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise it couldn't do such transformations
< 1273423394 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and by the end, it's been lost
< 1273423405 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know why mathematica thinks gamma is simpler than factorial, mind
< 1273423432 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you would dig this
< 1273423438 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dig what
< 1273423444 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean it's not ideal I agree
< 1273423451 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just don't think it would be easy to have mathematica do this
< 1273423512 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not mathematica
< 1273423534 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok what can do it then, apart from your head
< 1273423579 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't it be great if, when you defined a new function - it tried to figure out the algebraic properties of it
< 1273423581 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In[5]:= FinInteg[FallingPow[x, n], n]
< 1273423581 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out[5]= E Gamma[1 + x] (1 - ExpIntegralE[n - x, 1]/Gamma[1 - n + x])
< 1273423583 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hee
< 1273423593 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: yes, but that's not really practical,
< 1273423596 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if every time it did a transformation
< 1273423599 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it had to look at EVERY function
< 1273423601 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to see if it would work here
< 1273423617 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could use some heuristics
< 1273423622 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh
< 1273423625 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer predictability
< 1273423683 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, after all
< 1273423684 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In[10]:= FullSimplify[
< 1273423684 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : FinDeriv[FallingPow[x, n], x] == n FallingPow[x, n - 1]]
< 1273423684 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out[10]= True
< 1273423705 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit much to expect the computer to discover amazing new facts and identities about random functions automatically then instantly apply them everywhere
< 1273423736 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FallingPow[x, n], x] == n FallingPow[x, n - 1] is trivial
< 1273423742 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it is.
< 1273423751 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait
< 1273423754 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I misread it
< 1273423770 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ]] confused me
< 1273423798 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah lol
< 1273423799 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1273423804 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's checking the derivative
< 1273423813 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what you said isn't trivial it's even false :-)
< 1273423828 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FinInteg is a bit slow with the FullSimplify; meh
< 1273423847 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think anyone else has done indefinite finite integration, so there
< 1273423974 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: I think there probably is a way to get it to return the result in terms of FallingPower
< 1273423978 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND I'M SURE DEEWIANT KNOWS IT HEM HEM
< 1273424008 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beats me
< 1273424042 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you find out, do tell me, though; I've wanted something similar myself on occasion
< 1273424110 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: I bet CASulator could do it
< 1273424138 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does CASulator exist?
< 1273424148 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: no -- but I'm going to create it
< 1273424158 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because dammit, I want a CAS in my pocket
< 1273424164 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid numeric graphing calculators suck
< 1273424187 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants to prove this diophantine has only one solution
< 1273424213 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1273424219 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'M SURE A COMPUTER COULD DO THAT
< 1273424220 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p
< 1273424226 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really?
< 1273424258 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just put mathematica on some server and use it via gprs internet connection
< 1273424263 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how hard it could be
< 1273424275 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: no of course not
< 1273424282 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :diophantine equations are not quite in the computable realm :P
< 1273424288 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: no that's shitty, you're shitty
< 1273424291 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :firstly, reception
< 1273424294 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :secondly, speed
< 1273424303 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thirdly, mathematica is not very good UI for a calculator
< 1273424312 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and finally, I want to write a damn CAS
< 1273424358 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :overkill
< 1273424366 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise in haskell?
< 1273424381 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: on a tiny embedded calculator cpu???
< 1273424383 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so
< 1273424387 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: no it's not overkill
< 1273424403 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using an unreliable, very very slow internet connection to talk to a $thousands package on a centralised server which will need to be expensive to handle multiple users,
< 1273424411 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a bad ui not tuned to a calculator
< 1273424414 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/that/ is overkill
< 1273424415 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay
< 1273424423 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the basic CAS algorithms are not hard
< 1273424429 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll be a learning experience anyway...
< 1273424432 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CAS stuff, /and/ embedded stuff
< 1273424441 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1273424468 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but cramming usable CAS into a handheld is not easy
< 1273424507 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the challenge!
< 1273424519 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course I won't have every function ever, and it'll be quite slow for solving and simplification and the like
< 1273424528 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it'll be nice to be able to fiddle over things like algorithm performance without being crazy
< 1273424543 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I get to draw a font (assuming I use a calculator-y display rather than a high-powered "proper" one)
< 1273424549 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(eink isn't an option; too slow response time for typing)
< 1273424576 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait
< 1273424584 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you want to build the actual device?
< 1273424604 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I'd write the code on a simulator on a pc first... but sure, long term sort of thing
< 1273424616 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it will get further than a bunch of shit tied together with wires... like, getting plastic made doesn't sound fun
< 1273424617 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still
< 1273424620 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a Project
< 1273424823 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARM+RAM+lcd+keyboard+card reader is not very complicated construction
< 1273424843 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arm is a bit much isn't it? if we want long battery life
< 1273424859 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the TI-Nspire probably works fine with ARM
< 1273424877 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was personally thinking Z80, since I've never seen or written Z80 code, seems interesting; but perhaps a bit too low powered.
< 1273424884 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :noo
< 1273424898 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1273424927 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm building a 8088 based computer and IMHO even 8088 is too minimal
< 1273424969 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :z80 is post-8088
< 1273424989 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it sucks equally
< 1273425009 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION read some scrollback
< 1273425014 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CAS? Compare-and-Swap?
< 1273425025 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: isn't Wolfram Alpha basically Mathematica on a server?
< 1273425058 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Computer Algebra system
< 1273425083 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ you're wrong alise: 8088 was released in 79 and Z80 was 8080 compatible processor introdouced in 76
< 1273425084 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Mathematica, Maxima, Axiom, etc.; in the old says, Macsyma
< 1273425098 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: ok, touche
< 1273425206 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, not familiar with that term... basically, something that does symbolic processing instead of just calculating?
< 1273425311 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=ContourPlot[x+%2B+3+x^2+%2B+2+x^3+%3D%3D+6+y^2%2C+{x%2C+-10%2C+10}%2C+{y%2C+-10%2C+10}]
< 1273425374 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like I said, Mathematica on a server
< 1273425388 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1273425426 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no?
< 1273425478 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's mathematica + really big inference engine
< 1273425496 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ enormous knowledge base
< 1273425531 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ hacky english frontend
< 1273425542 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah
< 1273425555 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also lacks things like a session where you could define stuff in; you ony have that one query. And at least earlier it didn't evaluate arbitrary Mathematica expressions.
< 1273425591 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@150.140.229.33 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273425607 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, enormous knowledge base is in mathematica already
< 1273425689 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: not all of it.
< 1273425693 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's hardly enormous.
< 1273425697 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: basically, yes
< 1273425738 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there are some Maxima/Axiom/Sage builds/packages for Maemo, but I doubt any have very handheld-optimized UIs.
< 1273425752 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: something that can solve equations, do precise calculations involving pi and other real numbers, let you enter "derivative of x^2" in some form and get back "2 x", and then approximate any result to any number of decimal places...
< 1273425754 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a good CAS
< 1273425774 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: look at this; I think it's big: http://reference.wolfram.com/mathematica/guide/ComputableDataOverview.html
< 1273425779 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sage's "notebook" interface is browser-based, I think. It might sort of work. Never tried it out.
< 1273425790 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: i know of that database
< 1273425796 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is sorely lacking; most of it is just toy examples
< 1273425819 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :99% of what wolfram says is marketing, believe the opposite until you can verify it's true yourself :)
< 1273425830 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it is browser based yeah but it is kinda complex and icky
< 1273425845 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: there is an account-based sage notebook thing you could try that out
< 1273425847 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no installation)
< 1273425853 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slower though of course
< 1273425975 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I tried to run qbasic in the dosbox I have in this thing, but the default keyboard configuration doesn't support the "fn" key, so all you can input is a-z and .,<> -- couldn't write the "mount" command to get access to qbasic.exe, and anyway without things like digits and punctuation...
< 1273426049 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "workaround" was "use a bluetooth keyboard", ha.
< 1273426111 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem with a casulator is all the keys you need
< 1273426121 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think maybe some sort of subset of the alphabet would be nice so you could like "search" for functions
< 1273426143 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like press "insert", type goraph to get goldenratio (phi) or something
< 1273426373 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273426490 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi rojan
< 1273426492 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean ojan
< 1273426495 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean rojan
< 1273426497 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :orjan
< 1273426498 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi lisa
< 1273426500 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oeranj
< 1273426503 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah there we go
< 1273426504 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi orange!
< 1273426506 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :janoer
< 1273426515 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ronjae
< 1273426519 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ouch don't
< 1273426531 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there _is_ an Oranjer regular here you know
< 1273426535 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait
< 1273426543 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Orajner != oerjan ?
< 1273426546 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1273426551 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:)
< 1273426553 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :couldn't you tell from the personality
< 1273426553 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed !=
< 1273426558 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: plz don't say lisa :P
< 1273426566 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: you started it ;D
< 1273426576 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it is a name with bad connotations for me.
< 1273426580 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh.
< 1273426592 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DANGER DANGER DANGER
< 1273426600 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's a lisa's fault I'm in the unit)
< 1273426606 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION assumes it's a psychopathic psychiatrist... oh
< 1273426609 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what unit?
< 1273426609 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :callous bitch
< 1273426615 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: if you don't know you don't want to
< 1273426631 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: so i was pretty close i assume
< 1273426642 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: pretty much.
< 1273427085 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blah
< 1273427108 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blĂĽh
< 1273427248 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273427279 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hubl
< 1273427532 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1273427774 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HE'S A WITCH
< 1273427887 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gets confused :p
< 1273427905 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly, nobody is ever on-topic in here
< 1273427958 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, duh
< 1273428100 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Synchronicity
< 1273428109 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: you have been enlightened!
< 1273428130 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time for the second initiation rite!
< 1273428144 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bring the hippopotami!
< 1273428149 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(carefully this time)
< 1273428172 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: uh oh, oerjan has got you!!
< 1273428179 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: put that math note on the web, i wanna see it
< 1273428186 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which math note??
< 1273428203 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one you wrote with jsmath
< 1273428263 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<soupdragon> I wanna ask oerjan or oklopol something <-- that'll be 50 quibbles
< 1273428294 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or 13 quatloos
< 1273428366 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I've figured it out by now [sort of] but if you are curious I was trying to prove that 70^2 is the only square expressible as 1^2 + 2^2 + 3^2 + ... + n^2
< 1273428369 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(conversion rates are approximate, and may not be up to date)
< 1273428378 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1273428407 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well step 1 would be to squish that second into a 3rd degree polynomial
< 1273428423 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n(n+1)(2n+1)/6, IIRC
< 1273428449 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, i didn't know that, unless i've forgotten it
< 1273428459 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the 70^2 thing)
< 1273428526 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that turns it into an elliptic equation
< 1273428535 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, then do some cases on n mod 6
< 1273428544 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh?  oh it requires some fancy stuff?
< 1273428586 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know
< 1273428613 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well for a start only one of the factors can be even
< 1273428658 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it is divisible by either 2, 8, 32, or some odd power of 2
< 1273428720 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also exactly one of them is divisible by 3
< 1273428785 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell [(n*(n+1)*(2n+1))`div`6| n <-[0..9]]
< 1273428801 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah
< 1273428822 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell [(n*(n+1)*(2*n+1)) `div` 6| n <-[0..9]]
< 1273428824 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[0,1,5,14,30,55,91,140,204,285]
< 1273428853 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that helps
< 1273428867 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell scanl1 (+) . map (^2) $ [0..9]
< 1273428869 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[0,1,5,14,30,55,91,140,204,285]
< 1273428878 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just checking
< 1273428942 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if soupdragon had it has homework, it might very well require the fancy stuff she's studying
< 1273428945 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*as
< 1273428975 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's not my homework
< 1273428983 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1273428986 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: have you got the native TeX fonts installed, or are you using the sprite ones?
< 1273428993 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: then what is it?
< 1273428995 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :native
< 1273429006 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: yaeh they're nice
< 1273429008 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*yeah
< 1273429024 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the sprite ones work fine for everyone else though, just pixellates on scaling, doesn't print as well and maybe looks a little bit out of place
< 1273429028 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you want the HTML? or a PDF or what?
< 1273429034 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's still better than, say, an inline image
< 1273429041 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: sure the html, I just wanted to read the note :P
< 1273429051 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell scanl1 (+) . map (^2) $ [0..20]
< 1273429053 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but you have to read it beautifully typeset
< 1273429053 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[0,1,5,14,30,55,91,140,204,285,385,506,650,819,1015,1240,1496,1785,2109,2470,2870]
< 1273429057 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have the mathbb font working
< 1273429058 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell 70^2
< 1273429059 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4900
< 1273429066 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops
< 1273429079 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell scanl1 (+) . map (^2) $ [0..40]
< 1273429081 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[0,1,5,14,30,55,91,140,204,285,385,506,650,819,1015,1240,1496,1785,2109,2470,2870,3311,3795,4324,4900,5525,6201,6930,7714,8555,9455,10416,11440,12529,13685,14910,16206,17575,19019,20540,22140]
< 1273429089 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/952615.txt?key=bnzqq8f8upnmvozmedqihq
< 1273429117 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION actually cannot be bothered
< 1273429138 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you solved it already so
< 1273429166 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I didn't solve it
< 1273429168 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<soupdragon> do you have the mathbb font working
< 1273429168 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1273429170 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of the fonts
< 1273429171 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every single one
< 1273429172 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just found out a theorem which it lives in
< 1273429179 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theorey*
< 1273429184 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1273429187 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: btw i'm not sure but i think you can use the theorem environment stuff with jsmath
< 1273429195 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also darn i don't have the js files to hand :(
< 1273429198 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gets them
< 1273429252 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah it's in ubuntu
< 1273429273 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sort of have this idea to make a nice blog with jsmath and nice typography now...
< 1273429296 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> I don't think anyone else has done indefinite finite integration, so there <-- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indefinite_sum , i looked at it yesterday
< 1273429353 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just use "sum(k=-inf, x-1) f'(k)", yielding f(x)
< 1273429366 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from when f'(k) = 1; then it doesn't converge...
< 1273429445 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I like the calculus of finite differences
< 1273429465 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a talk on it a couple of years ago
< 1273429532 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise me too
< 1273429540 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: me too what?
< 1273429541 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which line
< 1273429545 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of them
< 1273429552 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> soupdragon: btw i'm not sure but i think you can use the theorem environment stuff with jsmath
< 1273429553 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> I sort of have this idea to make a nice blog with jsmath and nice typography now...
< 1273429555 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> I just use "sum(k=-inf, x-1) f'(k)", yielding f(x)
< 1273429557 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which :P
< 1273429571 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does jsmath package depend on apache2.....
< 1273429658 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<SCRIPT SRC="jsmath/easy/load.js"></SCRIPT>
< 1273429658 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<SCRIPT> jsMath.ConvertTeX() </SCRIPT>
< 1273429662 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :these should really be at end of body :(
< 1273429663 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or page load will lag
< 1273429664 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why
< 1273429671 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because browsers suck; when they see a script tag
< 1273429672 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just a "recommends" dependency, on "apache | apache-ssl | apache-perl | apache2 | httpd".
< 1273429675 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they immediately stop loading the page,
< 1273429681 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :download the script
< 1273429682 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :run the entire script
< 1273429684 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and THEN continue
< 1273429688 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it blocks the entire page load
< 1273429703 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there any reason to do this?
< 1273429714 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pineapple: browsers suck; that's a general law of nature
< 1273429723 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: man that's typeset well
< 1273429730 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet not even Knuth could distinguish it from TeX :-)
< 1273429736 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jsmath is jawesome
< 1273429746 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;D
< 1273429747 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not suckiness, there is reason to do that; if you put it up there the expectation is that you want something run at that point
< 1273429765 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not doing it would break the broken document.write stuff, though that's a pretty sucky thing in general.
< 1273429778 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: yes, but still.
< 1273429783 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cluttering up the body is lame.
< 1273429788 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love how you can zoom in all the way and it still looks like computer modern
< 1273429789 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: by some people, yes; i get the feeling though that others copy putting it at the top without understanding why
< 1273429801 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just saying you can't say the browser sucks because it does that
< 1273429812 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It probably follows some spec, and if not, it does what you'd expect
< 1273429832 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: btw, if you use this on anything public i strongly suggest setting the default to image fonts, not just for symbols
< 1273429841 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1273429842 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise it uses the body font for variable names and shit and it looks really ugly
< 1273429848 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: no no it'll still use tex fonts when available
< 1273429854 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just it won't fall back to image-fonts-only-for-symbols
< 1273429857 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1273429905 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and also it bugs everyone who reads the page to install tex fonts which 99% people really don't need to...
< 1273429910 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    <STYLE> #jsMath_Warning {display: none} </STYLE> before including jsmath fixes that
< 1273429971 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and you also need to put
< 1273429971 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    <SCRIPT SRC="path-to-jsMath/plugins/spriteImageFonts.js"></SCRIPT>
< 1273429973 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before loading jsmath
< 1273429976 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yeah this is a pain but ehh)
< 1273430011 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1273430020 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: and before /that/ script,
< 1273430021 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    <SCRIPT> jsMath = {Font: {fallback: "image"}} </SCRIPT>
< 1273430025 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will make it better for people with non-tex fonts
< 1273430140 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait
< 1273430141 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The usual way to load jsMath used to be with a SCRIPT tag within the BODY of the document; loading jsMath in the document HEAD used to require additional effort, but as of version 3.0, this is no longer the case. You can now load jsMath in the HEAD and call jsMath.Process() or jsMath.ProcessBeforeShowing() in the document's onLoad handler without ever having any jsMath calls within the BODY of the document. The old jsMath.Setup.Body() call is no longer needed
< 1273430141 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.
< 1273430160 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: does the mathbb stuff show for you?
< 1273430181 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just shows as bold for me
< 1273430201 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha
< 1273430202 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you are using easy/load.js to load jsMath, you can add the new font to the loadFonts array in easy/load.js. For example,
< 1273430202 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    loadFonts: ["cmmib10"],
< 1273430202 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will cause the cmmib10 font to be available on every page that uses easy/load.js. If you are loading jsMath.js by hand, then in the HTML file that will be using the new font, include the line
< 1273430204 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    <SCRIPT> jsMath.Font.Load("cmmib10") </SCRIPT>
< 1273430206 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right after loading jsMath.js. That will load the data needed for jsMath to handle the cmmib10 font.
< 1273430208 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: ^^ do that
< 1273430213 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do it
< 1273430220 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fine
< 1273430225 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will update my file
< 1273430272 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273430539 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ff
< 1273430564 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: Ehh who wants blackboard bold anyway right?? Stupid Bourbakian invention? ...right? Right?
< 1273430578 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~chatzilla@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273430613 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.conservapedia.com/Linear_algebra#Application:_Analyzing_Liberal_style_on_Wikipedia
< 1273430616 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sobs
< 1273430658 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: you do not sound convince.d
< 1273430660 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*convinced
< 1273430698 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: just to check, you have put bbold10-sprite.zip's contents in the right place yeah?
< 1273430704 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the native version
< 1273430729 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: sheesh you're making bourbaki roll in his grave
< 1273430739 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ducks beneath a rock again
< 1273430742 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who likes bourbaki anyway!
< 1273430830 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1273430859 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :his set theory was one of the first books i found in the library when starting university
< 1273430878 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, later
< 1273430889 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: btw you can do \unicode{x2124} e.g. for blackboard Z, but tis ugly
< 1273430893 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'tis
< 1273430894 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1273430963 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :conservapedia :(
< 1273430977 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doubleplusunlike
< 1273431255 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love trolling
< 1273431306 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know why but it's really awesome to ask php guys about a cool feature that php haven't got and then watch their mad reactions ;D
< 1273431319 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: aha!!
< 1273431321 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have it almost working
< 1273431325 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works with images but not tex fonts
< 1273431337 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait
< 1273431339 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works with both
< 1273431358 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: ok you need msbm10 from http://www.math.union.edu/~dpvc/jsmath/download/extra-fonts/welcome.html in both ttf and sprite
< 1273431371 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unpack the sprite one in jsmath/fonts; leave the directory as is don't expand the files just the directory into there
< 1273431392 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then edit jsmath/easy/load.js
< 1273431395 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and change the loadFonts line to
< 1273431397 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  loadFonts: ["msbm10"],
< 1273431399 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and save.
< 1273431408 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also install the ttf one for your personal use
< 1273431420 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: easy
< 1273431438 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: and this is what the head of your html page should look like: http://pastie.org/952666.txt?key=buhhmspyfe1dfqkcw54lza
< 1273431446 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perfect blackboard bold.
< 1273431449 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: which channel? :p
< 1273431508 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1273431607 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: change jsmath/ in that head to where your jsmath files are obviously
< 1273431614 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: now will you actually do this or did I do all that work for nothing :)
< 1273431774 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: not on irc
< 1273431804 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273431809 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then where?
< 1273431907 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://blip.pl/
< 1273431917 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's much like twitter
< 1273431970 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: also if you want \binom and stuff you need http://www.math.union.edu/~dpvc/jsMath/authors/AMSmath.html
< 1273431979 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: except in a language I don't know :p
< 1273431980 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait if it has align it must already been in there
< 1273431980 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1273431988 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Polish ofc
< 1273432015 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  loadFiles: ["extensions/AMSmath.js", "extensions/AMSsymbols.js"],
< 1273432017 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway
< 1273432036 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, now \therefore works
< 1273432159 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1273432177 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: dammit i broke your thing by adding my thing
< 1273432304 0 :hiato!~fdulu@41-132-16-47.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273432338 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Hot)
< 1273432359 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1273432465 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::>
< 1273432976 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lo all
< 1273432995 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't suppose one of you is 'kirarinsnow' for GCJ?
< 1273433026 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha
< 1273433035 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: i fixed it and now it is all pefect
< 1273433037 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*perfect
< 1273433070 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoever that was did GCJ in Piet, sed, J, Prolog, Octave and SNOBOL
< 1273433231 0 :Alex3012!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1273433236 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back
< 1273433370 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: yeah I made a lot of changes so ignore my previous advice
< 1273433372 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got everything working
< 1273433375 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :proper blackboard bold and all
< 1273433415 0 :Alex3012!~chatzilla@ool-18b989d3.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273433446 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet
< 1273433454 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mathbb is the sexiest thing I have ever seen
< 1273433531 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: so are you prepared to do the work of downloading some files and changing two files to get it? :P
< 1273433548 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh?
< 1273433551 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already have mathbb
< 1273433554 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope
< 1273433564 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only works for you, y'see
< 1273433574 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, mine actually uses sprite fonts and stuff
< 1273433591 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't like sprites
< 1273433600 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: yes, but it only shows for people without the fonts
< 1273433605 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1273433610 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the alternative is it not working at all for those people since you don't have the image fonts
< 1273433819 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: here
< 1273433822 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/952722.txt?key=6caif1bj8kqogegg4k6tua
< 1273433839 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks
< 1273433840 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ultimate guide to awesome jsMath, with symbols like \therefore, proper mathbb, even \mathcal if you want, sprite font fallback, native fonts, everything
< 1273433843 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and $foo$
< 1273433848 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1273433851 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do that once and all you need to do in future is copy the head code to another document
< 1273434058 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273434169 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: slight jsMath caveat: copy and paste doesn't really work
< 1273434181 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then you cannot really copy and paste typeset mathematics.
< 1273434189 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :double clicking on an equation gets you the tex code though
< 1273434348 0 :alise_!~alise@91.104.225.35 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273434548 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1273434648 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273434891 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: wow you can even hide the mathematics while it's typesetting
< 1273435055 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: edit easy/load.js to have this instead of the :1 version,
< 1273435056 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  showFontWarnings: 0,
< 1273435062 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in the page head
< 1273435064 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;;;;]]]]
< 1273435065 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    window.jsMath = {Font: {fallback: "image", Message: function () {}}};
< 1273435066 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can just be
< 1273435070 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    window.jsMath = {Font: {fallback: "image"}};
< 1273435186 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: you can use numbered equations!
< 1273435187 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.math.union.edu/~dpvc/jsMath/authors/eqn-number.html
< 1273435224 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah there is no doubt about it this is the best way to do math
< 1273435227 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the web
< 1273435630 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometime i think i will try using @font-face so that people with modern browsers get tex fonts automatically, even if they haven't installed them!
< 1273435796 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: http://91.104.225.35/maths.html i wrote some stuff about zeta summation because dammit i can't stop thinking about how to sum the reciprocals
< 1273435806 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly just to test out how pretty i can get some stuff
< 1273435808 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :answer; very
< 1273435811 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :odd
< 1273435814 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :best with linux fonts
< 1273435817 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i will put in a nice mac font there
< 1273435839 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/ss4VX.png
< 1273435865 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very odd
< 1273435872 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird
< 1273435872 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sec
< 1273435883 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: i will see if i can fix it
< 1273435932 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: For me it displays beautifully: http://imgur.com/o21rB.png
< 1273435982 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not for me :(
< 1273436018 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: dunno. i'm trying to fix it now
< 1273436020 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the meantime refresh
< 1273436022 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I changed the font for OS X
< 1273436025 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better or worse?
< 1273436039 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the same
< 1273436048 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION runs a VM he hasn't run in YEARS
< 1273436103 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: no i mean the text
< 1273436105 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the tex part
< 1273436107 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the surrounding text
< 1273436128 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it's changed now but it wasn't changed a moment ago
< 1273436144 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1273436149 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the change better? in the non-tex bits
< 1273436155 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1273436157 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't have an os x box to hand, a screenshot would be nice I guess :P
< 1273436163 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok right now i'll fix this alignment issue
< 1273436201 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/1uTJC.png
< 1273436269 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forgot how nice hoefler text is
< 1273436338 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: and the options panel says native fonts are being used?
< 1273436378 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: fixed
< 1273436379 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :refresh
< 1273436414 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1273436430 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i'll fix it
< 1273436431 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a sec
< 1273436432 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb
< 1273436614 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION accidentally rtrapped himself in Win98 for a bit
< 1273436617 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I escaped, though
< 1273436686 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION isn't sure what to be doing now
< 1273437004 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: Learn all the languages.
< 1273437036 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest getting a time machine, and finding the common ancestor of all langauges, and start there.
< 1273437046 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, attain immortality.
< 1273437081 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're going to be studying for at least a few centuries.
< 1273437081 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1273437217 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would like to learn all the programming languages
< 1273437220 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.>
< 1273437310 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1273437343 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would love to learn BANCstar
< 1273437382 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: That would actually take *significantly* less effort.
< 1273437403 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As programming languages have pretty much all been attested at one time or another.
< 1273437414 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And are generally designed to be learnable in not-too-much-time.
< 1273437435 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though a *royal* fucking pain, I suspect someone could just about manage it in a human lifetime.
< 1273437456 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though they'll be damned bitter about the continual invention of programming languages. ;)
< 1273437495 0 :anschelsc!~anschel@173.56.56.153 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273437511 0 :anschelsc!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1273437547 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be fair to BANCstar, I wouldn't really expect an intermediate language to be decent
< 1273437652 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back
< 1273437662 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb
< 1273437662 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: i thought i worked out the sum of the reciprocals
< 1273437665 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i worked out the product
< 1273437705 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Skeletons and maximal balls"; what a great title in this "computer vision" course lecture-slide.
< 1273437735 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maximal balls are maximally manly
< 1273437778 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: anyway
< 1273437800 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First-level point "Skeletons", second-level point "formation with maximal balls", third-level sub-point "the result can be non-homotopic".
< 1273437854 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inf! = sqrt(2 pi); inf! = 1*2*3*4*...; 1/abcd = (1/a)(1/b)(1/c)(1/d); (1/1)(1/2)(1/3)(1/4)...=1/(1*2*3*4*...); so the product of the reciprocals is 1/sqrt(2 pi)
< 1273437856 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: ^
< 1273437872 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P
< 1273438002 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: I think I fixed http://localhost/maths.html
< 1273438018 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make sure to cmd-refresh or whatever it is
< 1273438022 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get the new versio
< 1273438038 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"There's no such file in my localhost."
< 1273438060 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone have experience with ILLGOL?
< 1273438070 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er oops
< 1273438078 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://91.104.225.35/maths.html
< 1273438107 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/should/ display the most beautiful rendering of mathematics ever conceived of :P
< 1273438137 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still broken
< 1273438150 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :View source; does it include this line?
< 1273438155 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :      vertical-align: baseline;
< 1273438157 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH I bet that's why
< 1273438183 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: refresh
< 1273438202 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1273438227 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I haven't killed anyone at ALL since I started programming in ILLGOL!"
< 1273438227 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still not working? whattt
< 1273438286 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: does the view source show this:
< 1273438292 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    div.typeset {
< 1273438292 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :      margin: 1.4583em 0;
< 1273438292 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    }
< 1273438316 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1273438341 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then ... what the fuck
< 1273438364 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try now, tried something new
< 1273438373 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fixed!
< 1273438374 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be slightly /above/ the text now
< 1273438378 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not quite
< 1273438381 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a bit above the baseline
< 1273438384 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just quickly fix that
< 1273438385 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it is
< 1273438475 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is between 0.11 and 0.12 em too high
< 1273438475 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird
< 1273438530 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1273438532 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: refresh again :P
< 1273438536 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know this is a pain, just trying to diagnose it
< 1273438546 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :broken again
< 1273438570 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this would be a lot easier if I had safari to hand... try now?
< 1273438644 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using firefox
< 1273438678 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird. so am i, firefox 3 here though
< 1273438681 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not 3.6 or anything
< 1273438925 0 :alise_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273438957 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A number n is irrational iff Unknown control sequence '\msbm' and Unknown control sequence '\msbm'.
< 1273439029 0 :alise!~alise@91.104.225.35 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273439085 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so hi
< 1273439199 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: i'll try to fix it later... can't seem to right now
< 1273439208 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://localhost/galois.html ;; I PLAGIARISED YOU
< 1273439217 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm watching TheCatsters
< 1273439347 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273439356 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi zzo38
< 1273439404 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi
< 1273439440 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought about, in a D&D game, how to make a rule that if two magical effects are making anti-magic field with overlap areas, that there can be interference pattern.
< 1273439454 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In some places they constructively interfere and in others they destructively interfere.
< 1273439487 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In some places you can still cast spells but the range would be severly restricted to a few inches. If you can't cast a spell, try moving a few inches and try again.
< 1273439558 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-34-17-217.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273439567 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: Interesting fact: John Baez founded the school of Baezian statistics.
< 1273439648 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, in some anti-magic that doesn't count as a magical effect in that way, it will just be antimagic without the interference pattern. Another way there would be no interference pattern is if one of them is caused by an artifact and the other by a non-artifact.
< 1273439788 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like this idea?
< 1273439816 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Absolutely! I like it and I didn't even read it.
< 1273439856 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1273440016 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why didn't you read it?
< 1273440035 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't play D&D.
< 1273440076 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then how can you know if you like it?
< 1273440089 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you didn't read it?
< 1273440101 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What should I be doing for the next few hours
< 1273440130 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: underflow
< 1273440151 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon--make a generator for something normally seen as "too vague to define"
< 1273440154 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know?
< 1273440175 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmm
< 1273440248 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i like anything you say it's usually awesome
< 1273440257 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: TYPESETTING BEAUTIFUL MATHEMATICS
< 1273440258 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhh
< 1273440259 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :writing code
< 1273440266 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :code is fun occasionally.
< 1273440268 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have any more mathematics to write out
< 1273440278 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have lost that drive to write programs
< 1273440294 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should solve a quintic in radicals
< 1273440325 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: prove that there does not exist a pair of turing-complete machines/automatons A and B such that neither A nor B are Turing-complete, but feeding some code S to A (producing a potentially infinite output) and then feeding the result into B as its code yields Turing-completeness
< 1273440351 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this would remove any doubt about the validity of ais523's 2,3 TM proof; since the generating automaton is not Turing-complete, and the whole construction is Turing-complete, the 2,3 TM would therefore have to be Turing-complete)
< 1273440360 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: OK, play a game, perhaps? Such as Super ASCII MZX Town (series)? Or even make up a game.
< 1273440378 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise - isn't that obvious? The composition of two subturing functions is subturing
< 1273440378 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: ... you just said A and B are TC ... do you mean that A and B are non-universal TM, but their interaction is universal?
< 1273440391 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-L: Yes
< 1273440391 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or perhaps, play Sub-EBCDIC ZZT Village.
< 1273440393 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: it isn't obvious because of infinite output
< 1273440407 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: the generating automaton in ais's proof generates an infinite, non-repeating -- but still generated by a sub-TC -- computer
< 1273440408 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Actually, "Sub-EBCDIC ZZT Village" doesn't exist)
< 1273440412 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this then invokes TC behaviour in the 2,3 TM
< 1273440417 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the argument is whether this makes the 2,3 TM TC
< 1273440417 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, I was thinking of making a rougelike but I don't think I can really be bothered because I expect that i would give up on at before it was really good
< 1273440418 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One stack machine + one stack machine = one Turing machine.
< 1273440422 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or
< 1273440426 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just makes {automaton} + {2,3} TM
< 1273440432 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-L: No, but that isn't what I said.
< 1273440434 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not just the interaction.
< 1273440454 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of B(x), we do B(A(x)), where A's output /may be infinite and non-repeating/, but both A and B are sub-TC.
< 1273440467 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prove then that B(A(x)) is not Turing-complete.
< 1273440480 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this has not been proved, if it has I am stating it wrong
< 1273440486 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it was the fundamental disagreement about ais's proof
< 1273440555 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273440684 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly soupdragon is not nterested :P
< 1273440690 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*interested
< 1273440741 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am thinking about it now
< 1273440762 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay
< 1273440783 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you disprove it, i.e. it does not hold for all TMs, the controversy remains :(
< 1273441106 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: so... prove it :P
< 1273441129 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't prove this
< 1273441140 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1273441232 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273441279 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK MY INTERNET CONNECTION
< 1273441284 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK IT WITH A RUSTY HOSE
< 1273441330 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I don't think it's true
< 1273441338 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: OKAY
< 1273441341 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: Why not?
< 1273441351 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say it's very obviously intuitive. Just perhaps not true.
< 1273441351 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you have to put stronge restrictions on G than just subturing
< 1273441368 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why?
< 1273441427 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't constructed but I can imagine there could be a TC FG where F and G are subturing
< 1273441444 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(probably exploiting the bijection between |N and |N*)
< 1273441472 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, but why do you imagine this?
< 1273441512 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems obvious to me that you cannot have complexity contained in a one way strand of communication, if the thing being communicated is not complex, and the thing it is being fed to does not have the power to create complex things,
< 1273441517 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then whence the complexity (Turing-completeness)?
< 1273441640 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: EH EH
< 1273441642 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHENCE
< 1273441742 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you needed to calculate something, but you could only generate a bunch of stuff that included the answer - that might be subturing. If you could only find the correct answer in a stream that had it already, that would be subturing too -- but perhaps together turing
< 1273441800 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273441809 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: hmm
< 1273441817 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so like, that formula that gives negative -> not prime; positive -> prime
< 1273441819 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a prime-checker
< 1273441821 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a prime generator
< 1273441827 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though neither can generate just primes?
< 1273441833 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1273441839 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure it applies to Turing-completeness but it's a good argument
< 1273442047 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My step-mother asked me to look up "Calorie City" as a joke grr
< 1273442088 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat
< 1273442154 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :She often asks me to look up places, so I thought it was just another place to look up
< 1273442160 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So she wasted my time with a pathetic joke
< 1273442212 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could not look up the places in future.
< 1273442229 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, how is it a joke? It lacks notable qualities, like even the seeming intent to be funny or meaningful in some way.
< 1273442233 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I just don't get it.
< 1273442267 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tell your mom it says gullible on the ceiling
< 1273442276 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if she falls for it you have made her look up
< 1273442290 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, tell her gullible is actually spelled "gulliable", and gullible is the americanisation
< 1273442294 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell her to look it up in the dictionary
< 1273442296 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1273442314 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beautiful.
< 1273442328 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, she always tries to get me to eat, which I guess is nice
< 1273442339 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1273442551 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am really stunned by diophantine equations
< 1273442609 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, eating is kind of a good thing.
< 1273442848 0 :`q`!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Quadrescence
< 1273442864 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1273443200 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273443282 0 :augur_!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273443307 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273443635 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1273444987 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273445634 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1273446206 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273447516 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell let prevSq n = (floor . sqrt $ fromIntegral n)^2 in [n - prevSq n | n <- [1..50]]
< 1273447533 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[0,1,2,0,1,2,3,4,0,1,2,3,4,5,6,0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,0,1]
< 1273447544 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait
< 1273447563 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell let prevSq n = (floor . sqrt $ fromIntegral n)^2 in [n - prevSq n | x <- [1..50], let n = 2*x^2]
< 1273447565 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[1,4,2,7,1,8,17,7,18,4,17,32,14,31,9,28,2,23,46,16,41,7,34,63,25,56,14,47,1,36,73,23,62,8,49,92,34,79,17,64,113,47,98,28,81,7,62,119,41,100]
< 1273447639 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell let prevSq n = (floor . sqrt $ fromIntegral n)^2 in [x | x <- [1..50], let n = 2*x^2, n - prevSq n == 1]
< 1273447641 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[1,5,29]
< 1273447700 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell 28*29*(2*28+1)`div` 6
< 1273447702 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7714
< 1273447778 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell let prevSq n = (ceiling . sqrt $ fromIntegral n)^2 in [x | x <- [1..50], let n = 2*x^2, n - nextSq n == -1]
< 1273447808 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell let nextSq n = (ceiling . sqrt $ fromIntegral n)^2 in [x | x <- [1..50], let n = 2*x^2, n - nextSq n == -1]
< 1273447810 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[2,12]
< 1273447826 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait
< 1273447847 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell 24*25*(2*24+1)`div` 6
< 1273447849 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4900
< 1273447852 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah!
< 1273447897 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell 2*29^2-1
< 1273447898 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1681
< 1273447910 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell sqrt 1681
< 1273447912 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :41.0
< 1273448052 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell 29^2-1
< 1273448054 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :840
< 1273448139 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell let prevSq n = (floor . sqrt $ fromIntegral n)^2 in [x | x <- [1..1000], let n = 2*x^2, n - prevSq n == 1]
< 1273448141 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[1,5,29,169,985]
< 1273448323 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell let nextSq n = (ceiling . sqrt $ fromIntegral n)^2 in [x | x <- [1..1000], let n = 2*x^2, n - nextSq n == -1]
< 1273448324 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[2,12,70,408]
< 1273448697 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273448915 0 :aox!~Agent@203.109.165.173 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273450042 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: null
< 1273450218 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1273451105 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273451432 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273452239 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Je peux utiliser une langue Ă©trangĂ¨re aussi. | xn--v8jad0f7b6z4eoa6v0hk534a7hlwhnnl8s.  | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D
< 1273452256 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no
< 1273452259 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :capitulate!
< 1273452593 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, in public? PERVERT.
< 1273452914 0 :uorygl!~Warrigal@rrcs-70-63-156-144.midsouth.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273453083 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'night
< 1273453087 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see why we should capitulate for french when we've already had japanese up there
< 1273453126 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still is there.
< 1273453127 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just punycoded now.
< 1273453178 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1273453217 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Esperanto ankaĹ­! | Je peux utiliser une langue Ă©trangĂ¨re aussi. | xn--v8jad0f7b6z4eoa6v0hk534a7hlwhnnl8s.  | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D
< 1273453325 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Esperanto is still bannable! | Je peux utiliser une langue Ă©trangĂ¨re aussi. | xn--v8jad0f7b6z4eoa6v0hk534a7hlwhnnl8s.  | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D
< 1273453868 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273453868 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273453871 0 :EgoBot!~EgoBot@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273453872 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273454195 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ć—Ąćś¬čŞžă‚‚č‰Żă„ă‹ă€‚
< 1273454342 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1273455003 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1273455018 0 :Gregor-L!~Gregor@75-151-73-57-Spokane.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273455409 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273457446 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273457666 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: If you are thinking to make roguelike what one?
< 1273457690 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just meant a text rpg type thing
< 1273457706 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not actually going to make it anyway
< 1273457749 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: OK. But have you played my two short roguelikes? (If you want to modify them afterward, that's OK, too)
< 1273457754 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/short/small/
< 1273457776 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, but is it possible for me to? I am on mac os
< 1273457825 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273457883 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: They are both DOS programs, but you could try either using a DOS emulator or compiling them using FreeBASIC.
< 1273457892 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh cool
< 1273457994 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/GAMES/100level.zip http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/GAMES/RL/KING.ZIP
< 1273458007 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks
< 1273458018 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm downloading an emulator now
< 1273458207 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-34-17-217.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273458228 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1273458310 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273458620 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am playing KING now ;)
< 1273458621 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1273458668 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like this game? Do you have question/comment?
< 1273458684 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am just reading the controls now
< 1273458783 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good. KING game tells you the controls (there are two ways, either using the letter keys or the numpad keys). By contrast, 100LEVEL game does not tell you the controls and does not tell you many other things, either, so you have to figure it out by trying different things.
< 1273458988 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I went down stairs
< 1273459021 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you mean in the game?
< 1273459026 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1273459109 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got 4 out of 50 for 990 turns and died
< 1273459282 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, well. These kind of games you will often lose early playing the first few times until you learn it better.
< 1273459285 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you try the other game?
< 1273459289 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1273459307 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im playing KING again because that one was too difficult
< 1273459312 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK
< 1273459390 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can, however, answer some of your questions about 100LEVEL game so that you may learn it better. (Hint: The easiest game is probably difficulty level "VERY EASY" and mode "TURNS")
< 1273459420 0 :augur!~augur@c-68-54-80-152.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273459450 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am going to water the tomato for a minute, just wait
< 1273459460 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_>
< 1273459464 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe
< 1273459485 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with anyone other than zzo38 i would have thought was a euphemism
< 1273459496 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then again, maybe it is
< 1273459512 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*+that
< 1273459552 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe it is literal _and_ a euphemism.  but we don't want to think about that.
< 1273459561 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I am doing a lot betting at KING second time
< 1273459631 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sibeli.us/ GO PLAY A COMPETING GAME lawl
< 1273460005 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273460046 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am back
< 1273460059 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: It is literally what I meant.
< 1273460066 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good, good.
< 1273460094 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: Yes you probably go get better the second time, this is what happens at this game.
< 1273460100 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION knows tomatoes need a lot of water
< 1273460128 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 what about that sokoban style game you made? does that only run on windows
< 1273460140 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean can it run on DOS
< 1273460153 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273460346 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.dosgamesarchive.com/images/screenshots/small/rogue1.gif that is scary
< 1273460488 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: Which game do you mean?
< 1273460503 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it is the most recent one you've written
< 1273460523 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it had sprites on a grid
< 1273460534 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This one? http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/GAMES/meskilb.png
< 1273460543 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1273460551 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am wondering if I can play that?
< 1273460561 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows only, although if you can figure out how to make the .GMD compile for other operating systems, you can try.
< 1273460574 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay
< 1273460578 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it wont run on DOS
< 1273460578 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Later on I might also write that game (or something similar) using C and SDL, possibly.
< 1273460616 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do have other games that will run on DOS, however. I also have some that are cross-platform (so they should run natively on Mac OS X)
< 1273460695 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, I have written some MegaZeux games. MegaZeux is available for many operating systems (including Nintendo DS, even).
< 1273460934 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Part I of the "Super ASCII MZX Town" series is available at: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/mzx1/ASCMZXTO/ASCMZXTO.ZIP  You will need MegaZeux to run it. You can get it from the official site at http://vault.digitalmzx.net/show.php?id=1676 or you can compile my modified version from http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/mzx1/mzx_extended/
< 1273460952 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My version has a lot of improvements, however Part I does not require it. Part II, however, does require to use my forked version of MegaZeux.
< 1273460968 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But Part II is not finished being written yet anyways.
< 1273461007 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can even make your own games with MegaZeux, if you want to.
< 1273461057 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it run on DOS
< 1273461096 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, alise left? :(
< 1273461106 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: It runs natively on Mac OS X.
< 1273461149 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also runs natively on many other operating systems as well.
< 1273461177 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is freaking hard finding a good CJK font.
< 1273461212 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: What format of fonts are you looking for?
< 1273461221 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bitmap
< 1273461232 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TTF.
< 1273461275 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have Windows, Arial Unicode MS might do. (Or, if you need Japanese only, MS Gothic will do.)
< 1273461280 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have gotten a decent Japanese font, but it freaking sucks for any Chinese that's not in use in Japanese. Which comes up a lot in my English Wikipedia browsing, and it's freaking jarring.
< 1273461291 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MS Gothic? MURDER.
< 1273461298 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That. Font. Sucks. Giant. Donkey. Cock.
< 1273461304 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey now.
< 1273461313 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't go impuning people who suck giant donkey cock.
< 1273461317 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You are right about that. It does not work well for Chinese (it works only a little bit)
< 1273461319 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-L: It's not even antialiased.
< 1273461322 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*impugning
< 1273461322 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The word 'Giant' was completely unecessary
< 1273461329 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MS Mincho is another one if you prefer that style.
< 1273461332 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: It sucks for Japanese.
< 1273461335 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As coppro can attest, all donkey cock is giant.
< 1273461338 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As does MS Mincho.
< 1273461342 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it does have some Japanese things missing too.
< 1273461354 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm currently using TakaoMincho and TakaoGothic.
< 1273461355 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it seems to work for most Japanese things!
< 1273461364 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Takao good?
< 1273461374 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For Japanese, *exceptionally*.
< 1273461393 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK
< 1273461430 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For Chinese, I'm trying to find something for this thing to fall back on that doesn't end up having more antialiasing artifacts than actual text.
< 1273461594 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available in both Mincho *and* Gothic. Well, it's Chinese, so Ming and heiti.
< 1273461651 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's my solution: SPEAK AMERICAN
< 1273461657 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION takes a bow.
< 1273461660 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Currently, god knows why, this ends up using (and I am not making this up), a regular script font. *shudder*
< 1273461733 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-L: OK, then. ç§ shall č©± ç±łčŞž, but ç§ woç„ˇ ä˝ż normal ć­Łć›¸y.
< 1273461738 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:D
< 1273461793 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"but no use I wo positive normal form y" *brain axplote*. You put in only the untranslatable grammatical words from Japanese. Impressive.
< 1273461868 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could've put more in, but I've not bothered learning the Chinese equivalents for grammatical words.
< 1273461869 0 :trap15!~xdevman@99-50-202-199.lightspeed.sndgca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273461879 0 :trap15!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh shit, awesome channel is awesome
< 1273461898 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Believe it or not, that's the most on-topic thing that's been said in this channel in months.
< 1273461900 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-L: BTW, "OK, then. I shall speak American, but I won't use normal orthography."
< 1273461913 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I seeeeeeee.
< 1273461922 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm, calqueing.
< 1273461952 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Howsabout we put "esoteric programming languages" SOMEWHERE in the topic? | Esperanto is still bannable! | Je peux utiliser une langue étrangčre aussi. | xn--v8jad0f7b6z4eoa6v0hk534a7hlwhnnl8s.  | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D
< 1273462072 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cxu vi parolas Esperanton?
< 1273462199 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cxu vi volas banigxi?
< 1273462276 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION forgot what the -igxi suffix means
< 1273462280 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CJK fonts seem to be obsessed with having awful bitmap versions for small font sizes...
< 1273462311 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It really doesn't help.
< 1273462455 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION forgot why anybody would speak Esper-LAMO HAW HAW I'M TWELVE
< 1273462466 0 :trap15!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esperanto sux
< 1273462492 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esperanto is great, IF YOU WANNA GET BANNED
< 1273462498 0 :trap15!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esoteric programming languages > esoteric spoken languages
< 1273462541 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is Esperanto bad?
< 1273462575 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of the consequences of speaking it
< 1273462605 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION <3 lament
< 1273462611 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Sometimes it is hard to draw kanji in small size, but kana should not be difficult to draw in small size
< 1273462704 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mi malbone parolas Esperanton.
< 1273462708 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1273462745 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esperanton parolas malbone mi.
< 1273462748 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :chpwn
< 1273462806 0 :trap15!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1273462817 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"WenQuanYi Zen Hei" is both sans-serif and not crap.
< 1273462823 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am pleased.
< 1273463025 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK
< 1273463539 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sans-serif? What does it even mean for a Chinese font to have serifs??? *brain axplote*
< 1273463657 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-L: That's called a "mincho" font.
< 1273463684 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well thank you, that relabeling has answered ALL of my, err, question.
< 1273463716 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll find a picture.
< 1273463742 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b3/Chinese_fonts_juhuasample_type.PNG
< 1273463764 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Serif, sans-serif, regular script.
< 1273463765 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(from top to bottom)
< 1273464100 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273464205 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: soupdragon
< 1273464260 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn idiographs.
< 1273465548 0 :Akamaru!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1273465981 0 :augur!~augur@c-68-54-80-152.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273466235 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
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< 1273468635 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1273469671 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gets very annoyed when seeing an unsupported glyph
< 1273469687 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus, I now have a hieroglyphs font.
< 1273469701 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even though I am not likely to ever write Egyptian.
< 1273469705 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just get Unifont
< 1273469716 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a bad fallback font, but at least it exists
< 1273469731 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unifont doesn't support everything.
< 1273469748 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, sure, it supports the BMP, but there's much outside of the BMP.
< 1273469752 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, Unifont has no support for Klingon.
< 1273469807 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or hieroglyphs.
< 1273469880 0 :Alex3012_!~chatzilla@ool-18b989d3.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273469959 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1273470925 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273470942 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1273471423 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if anyone ever has the guts to undertake a massive restructuring of the internet, it should be called The Inter2bes Project
< 1273471458 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HELP ME, I'M ADDICTED TO D.ANDROID.COM
< 1273471490 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay.
< 1273471496 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :switch to your browser
< 1273471499 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and press Alt-F4
< 1273471502 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then uninstall your browser
< 1273471517 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273471654 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should really be doing homework right now...
< 1273471863 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273472562 0 :Terminus1!~terminus@c-76-121-69-12.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1273478399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
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< 1273502220 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
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< 1273505783 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I am leaving. You are about to explode.
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< 1273506240 0 :chpwn!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :comex
< 1273506309 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
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< 1273508885 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~chatzilla@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273508907 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My computer has very possibly /the/ stupidest button ever.
< 1273508933 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When pressed, it stops the touchpad working, as far as I can tell at the hardware level.
< 1273509427 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273510337 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
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< 1273514117 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: underflow
< 1273514746 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My *god* fonts look better with proper hinting.
< 1273514766 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1273514772 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273514773 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("proper" meaning "mmm, patent violating BCI hinting, rather than the autohinter")
< 1273515222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Phantom_Hoover> My computer has very possibly /the/ stupidest button ever. <-- very useful
< 1273515240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, for example you may want to avoid touching it by mistake while typing
< 1273515241 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For what?
< 1273515247 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, sorry.
< 1273515259 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot to mention that /I can't turn it off/.
< 1273515268 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you like me prefer the trackpoint...
< 1273515274 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than the touchpad
< 1273515282 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have one.
< 1273515324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...then it would be very useful if only lenovo didn't make it also disable the buttons for clicking with trackpoint (between keyboard and touchpad, there are additional touchpad buttons below the touchpad)
< 1273515335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the trackpoint itself works still
< 1273515634 0 :tombom!~tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273515775 0 :bsmntbombdood!~gavin@97-118-202-110.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1273517227 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Later
< 1273518045 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the algorithm for evaluation in the lambda calculus?
< 1273518081 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which lambda calculus?
< 1273518089 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Untyped?
< 1273518093 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That one.
< 1273518146 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you even mean? just beta reduce in a while loop
< 1273518165 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should just be beta-reduction, yeah.
< 1273518168 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :While what?
< 1273518201 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :While true?
< 1273518222 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :While !some-exit-condition?
< 1273518407 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while !contains-free-vars
< 1273518409 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1273518414 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's all I came up with,
< 1273518428 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know what beta reduction is?
< 1273518429 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :While *doesn't* contain free vars?
< 1273518441 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why, that's the exact opposite of what you want!
< 1273518450 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, yes.
< 1273518456 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION facepalms
< 1273518480 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100423140709]
< 1273518486 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. No, wait...
< 1273518492 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently he's not going to.
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< 1273518778 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
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< 1273519286 0 :SimonLR!~hawaii@d24-235-199-148.home1.cgocable.net JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1273519417 0 :Alex3012!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
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< 1273521338 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273524407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, writing up faux wikipedia entries (not posting them on wikipedia of course) for various typos on IRC can be quite fun.
< 1273524850 0 :aox!~Agent@203.109.165.173 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273524891 0 :aox!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1273525100 0 :Geekthras!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1273525412 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GAH.
< 1273525462 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is it so damned hard to set up font substitution rules?
< 1273525751 0 :uorygl!~Warrigal@rrcs-70-63-156-144.midsouth.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273525866 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would *especially* love to be able to find out what font is being used to display a particular glyph. Why is this so hard?
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< 1273532499 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: there are several rules for how and how long to evaluate lambda calculus expressions, dependent on how you want.
< 1273532510 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*what you want
< 1273532557 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beta-reduction as pikhq mentioned is one of the reductions, there is also eta-reduction which is sometimes useful.  these are about _how_ to reduce a subterm.
< 1273532637 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however then there is the question of strict or lazy reduction, whether aim for a full normal, or just a head-normal form.
< 1273532756 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with head-normal and lazy reduction you never reduce b in a b  alone, you just reduce a first and _if_ that results in a \var -> something, then you use beta on the whole
< 1273532787 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1273532789 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with fully normal reduction, once a has been reduced you continue reducing b if they don't apply
< 1273532796 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit
< 1273532804 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*if beta reduction doesn't apply
< 1273532821 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1273532855 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: underflow
< 1273532879 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and there's something about weakly or strongly too, i think that is about whether to reduce _inside_ \x -> ...
< 1273532933 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :goddammit google, couldn't you drop some of that new fancy stuff and be _quicker_ instead
< 1273532943 0 :aschueler!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1273532988 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell's lazy reduction is to weak head normal form - basically it only reduces a and never inside \x -> ...
< 1273533072 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with _strict_ reduction you reduce b _before_ trying beta-reduction on a b, with lazy reduction you try beta reduction first (and reducing b probably never)
< 1273533193 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273533232 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: null
< 1273533291 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ML's (ocaml or SML) reduction is strict
< 1273533354 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for the lambda calculus parts)
< 1273533411 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it has been remarked that haskell's seq operator makes eta reduction inconsistent with the language
< 1273533436 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can distinguish \x -> undefined from undefined with (\x -> undefined) `seq` whatever
< 1273533493 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell (\x -> undefined) `seq` True
< 1273533501 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True
< 1273533510 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell undefined `seq` True
< 1273533511 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** Exception: Prelude.undefined
< 1273533536 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seq makes Haskell have side effects. Evil, no?
< 1273533538 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1273533549 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not strictly a side effect
< 1273533578 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just breaking eta reduction, beta reduction still holds
< 1273533652 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273533801 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with _strong_ normal form you keep reducing everything until all subterms are reduced
< 1273533877 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if that form exists, you may still have to be careful about the order you reduce in, so that it terminates.  taking the leftmost option is always safest.
< 1273533889 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not necessarily most efficient.
< 1273533931 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :always leftmost option ~= lazy
< 1273533999 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :things like fixpoint operators tend not to have strong normal forms, iirc
< 1273534002 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I am leaving. You are about to explode.
< 1273534167 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Phantom_Hoover> while !contains-free-vars
< 1273534182 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also that's not a good condition, _truly_ free vars cannot be removed
< 1273534203 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while !contains-redexes is what you want for strong normal form
< 1273534232 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a redex being anything of the form ((\x -> A) B)
< 1273534258 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hopes Phantom_Hoover logreads
< 1273534364 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if you use eta reduction too, then presumably \x -> A x  where x not in A  is also a redex
< 1273534370 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :)
< 1273534392 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :redex is short for reducible expression
< 1273534453 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is still waiting for Phantom_Hoover to answer the question "Do you know what beta reduction is"
< 1273534473 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :once he does, he will know what a beta redex is - and what the condition for the while loop should be
< 1273534484 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we're of course ignoring alpha reduction entirely
< 1273534505 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(trivial, but vital?)
< 1273534912 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<AnMaster> hm, writing up faux wikipedia entries (not posting them on wikipedia of course) for various typos on IRC can be quite fun.
< 1273534919 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's always uncyclopedia.
< 1273535042 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that the one all about unicycles?
< 1273535067 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no.
< 1273535171 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, unless you believe http://everything2.com/title/Uncyclopedia
< 1273535228 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funny
< 1273535259 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Unicycle-riding_bears
< 1273535377 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, uncyclopedia agrees.
< 1273535388 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google just censored it.
< 1273535397 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Uncyclopedia:About
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< 1273537088 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
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< 1273546474 0 :aox!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I'll be back
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< 1273552752 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
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< 1273554245 0 :augur!~augur@c-68-54-80-152.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273554727 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-198.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1273557924 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
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< 1273558638 0 :lament_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :lament
< 1273558902 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1273559931 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273560119 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273561012 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273561727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> there's always uncyclopedia. <-- my attempts were somewhat less absurd than it, mine could actually pass for valid entries at a quick glance, something that really isn't true for uncyclopedia
< 1273562950 0 :cheater2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
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< 1273576057 0 :hiato!~fdulu@41-132-16-47.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1273579007 0 :BeholdMyGlory_!~behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1273579215 0 :BeholdMyGlory_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host
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< 1273586656 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night
< 1273586817 0 :marchdown!~marchdown@ppp95-165-16-49.pppoe.spdop.ru JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273586820 0 :marchdown!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1273586853 0 :marchdown!~marchdown@ppp95-165-16-49.pppoe.spdop.ru JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1273588952 0 :Rugxulo!~user@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273589219 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two links for alise (assuming he logreads):
< 1273589220 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.staticramlinux.com/
< 1273589228 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.forthfreak.net/index.cgi?QBFORTH
< 1273589279 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and fizzie, have you heard of llfunge?   http://www.tilk.eu/
< 1273589323 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Almost correct - it disallows program mutation."
< 1273589329 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a cop-out if I ever saw one. :p
< 1273589337 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, just wanted you to be aware of it
< 1273589359 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But no, hadn't heard of it before.
< 1273589379 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1273589461 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273589648 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Befunge without program mutation is like C without variables
< 1273589807 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I don't do any program mutation in fungot, so it's not *quite* that awful.
< 1273589808 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: these unique items make us invincible! but you are true heros. the world, tee, hee! it's not the only one thing we need to defeat you, lavos. the ocean palace?
< 1273589818 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tee, hee.
< 1273589870 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, like without functions then
< 1273589960 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a bit surprised it's a JIT compiler and not an ahead-of-time compiler, though I guess it's understandable; it's a bit hard to predict what &&x will do.
< 1273589996 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it Befunge-98?
< 1273590005 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... don't know.
< 1273590011 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it :-P
< 1273590124 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is at least partially.
< 1273590137 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a stack-stack, and a hashmap-based fungespace with three dimensions.
< 1273590171 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aye, I guess that'd make it -98
< 1273590226 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No sign of fingerprints, though.
< 1273590276 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unimplemented:  ( ) ; = i j k o q t x y
< 1273590299 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(main.cpp, line 330)
< 1273590299 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x unimplemented! Should be ahead-of-time :-P
< 1273590306 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I just found that bit.
< 1273590347 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also a bit strange at places.
< 1273590371 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 'Stack' struct has a "void * mem" and then #define stack_top(stack) ((stack)->mem + (((stack)->ptr - 1) * (stack)->elsize))
< 1273590459 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
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< 1273593238 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
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< 1273593329 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)
< 1273594123 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It's perfectly feasible to do Befunge without *program* mutation but with g and p. :P
< 1273594149 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but it's sooooooo boring and lame
< 1273594152 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though arguably this isn't Befunge, but rather a simpler, compilable language.
< 1273594186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, still not one that is trivial to compile
< 1273594194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to trace through every possible path
< 1273594221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, and if you ever use x it may not be compilable, depending on if you can figure out all possible ways to hit that x
< 1273594241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and there the x itself may mess it up)
< 1273594268 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in such cases best you could do would be threaded-code kind of thing, with one jump between each befunge instruction
< 1273594292 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is arguably still compiling, but not very interesting
< 1273594303 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: *Possible*, not trivial. ;)
< 1273594312 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, what was x again?
< 1273594338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, pop y and x. Set delta from that
< 1273594346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, in trefunge it would be pop z, y, x
< 1273594357 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right.
< 1273594373 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That can't be determined except by executing the code.
< 1273594397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well, if you can figure out that it can only be hit with constant parameters ever...
< 1273594412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if it is unreachable
< 1273594421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes you still need to trace the program
< 1273594433 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So. Jit!
< 1273594436 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, but you would have to trace the program in any case if you want to compile it
< 1273594447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, and if you JIT then you can just as well handle g and p properly
< 1273594449 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :&&&x -> complexity explosion
< 1273594465 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1273594469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well that is one case you can't determine it
< 1273594522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, but if you had >11x right at the start of the program for example, and then was able to see it was not reachable from above/below/right...
< 1273594529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course you also need to check all the other x
< 1273594532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if any)
< 1273594588 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't be determined in general without (partial?) execution.
< 1273594630 0 :Geekthras!~geekthras@adsl-99-39-2-249.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273594695 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your face can't be determined in general without (partial?) execution.
< 1273594696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, indeed. But don't you need that to compile befunge without g/p anyway?
< 1273594742 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Uh, that's called "parsing".
< 1273594744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, otherwise what would you compile? push(1); goto *next; ?
< 1273594749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever that syntax is
< 1273594767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yes but you still need to know which directions the IP travels in if you compile it
< 1273594778 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. That's called *parsing*.
< 1273594780 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, or are you suggesting generating code for all possible deltas and such?
< 1273594790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which might be feasible for befunge93
< 1273594798 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Yes...
< 1273594809 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that what *you* were talking about?
< 1273594856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, no? I was talking about tracing from start, and when you hit stuff like | then make a branch in the generated code (generate code for each separately). You will need to take care of merging paths too of course.
< 1273594876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that seems like the obvious way to do befunge93-without-selfmod to me
< 1273594885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, no?
< 1273594896 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Yes, that's called parsing.
< 1273594899 0 :mostermand!~mosterman@0x5da1ebe2.cpe.ge-0-1-0-1105.drlnqu1.customer.tele.dk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273594918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, you need tracing to do that, otherwise you would generate code for never-reached bits too
< 1273594925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus you couldn't merge constants and so on
< 1273594927 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... No.
< 1273594959 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You seem to fail horribly at what the word "parsing" means.
< 1273594965 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what "tracing" means.
< 1273594970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, how do you mean that:   99+ v Comment never executed v other code <
< 1273594980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be codegened in your solution
< 1273595005 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there may be paths from above/below, but in this case all will pass through the spaces between those words
< 1273595008 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That will be *parsed* and then *compiled* into push(9);push(9);add(); /...
< 1273595016 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s|/|//|
< 1273595018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yes and what about the comment
< 1273595043 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The parser notes the "v" and goes down to continue parsing.
< 1273595050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yep, it traces the program
< 1273595051 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Like any sane parser*.
< 1273595058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I said
< 1273595062 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THATS NOT WHAT TRACING MEANS.
< 1273595072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, it is what tracing it means in jitfunge at least..
< 1273595079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used that terminology
< 1273595126 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it'd be wrong.
< 1273595183 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, it is a form of partial execution still. You need to follow all paths in the code to figure out what can be reached. In something like C that wouldn't be the task of the parser (rather, some optimisation like DCE or such probably)
< 1273595224 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is still the task of the parser to ignore comments.
< 1273595242 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually that's often done by the lexer
< 1273595243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, actually for C it is the pre-processor, not the compiler.
< 1273595252 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Fair enough.
< 1273595253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that is a different lexer or parser
< 1273595276 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, yeah. The C preprocessor nixes comments, not the compiler.
< 1273595277 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still.
< 1273595329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, but what about code like (from start of program):  1#v_ Comment otherwise unreachable from elsewhere ^
< 1273595334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, would that be the parser still?
< 1273595342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably not
< 1273595362 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would obviously parse both possible paths there.
< 1273595376 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A DCE pass could then see that one of the branches won't be taken.
< 1273595425 0 :marchdown!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: marchdown
< 1273595441 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, agreed. But I still think parser seems like the wrong word. A parser generally doesn't need to do stuff like tracking if it has already parsed the same code (which this one would need to do)
< 1273595469 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a 2D parser, rather than a 1D one.
< 1273595471 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Languages generally are executed in the same direction from start to finish
< 1273595473 0 :mostermand!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1273595481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, indeed
< 1273595488 0 :marchdown!~marchdown@ppp95-165-16-49.pppoe.spdop.ru JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273595489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, and it does trace the program.
< 1273595496 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Even a Unefunge one might have to parse something from left to right and later right to left
< 1273595502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, in this context what would you call a tracer?
< 1273595508 0 :mostermand!~mosterman@0x5da1ebe2.cpe.ge-0-1-0-1105.drlnqu1.customer.tele.dk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273595511 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but a "tracer" is a type of debugger.
< 1273595514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and do tell fizzie to fix that in jitfunge then
< 1273595519 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or a type of JIT that notes which paths are fast.
< 1273595522 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm.
< 1273595525 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which paths should be fast.
< 1273595556 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Quite.
< 1273595563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, in jitfunge it is iirc the bit that follows a code path before handing it of to the codegen.
< 1273595569 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most languages don't go backwards. :)
< 1273595585 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just saying that "2D" isn't the defining quality
< 1273595587 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also marking that part of the path as traced and so on
< 1273595589 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Oh, that's *very* bloody confusing when dealing with a JIT.
< 1273595615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, the marking as used is so a g/p to it properly discards the previous compiled trace
< 1273595621 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1273595622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/p
< 1273595624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not g/p
< 1273595629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :g obviously is safe
< 1273595673 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: He really should call it a "pather" or something.
< 1273595681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what a confusing name
< 1273595690 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll be an absolute headache if he decides to make his JIT trace.
< 1273595710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, it does that, but what meaning of trace do you have in mind? not the same presumably?
< 1273595719 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tracing JIT.
< 1273595722 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm far from an expert on JITs
< 1273595728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea what you mean by tracing jit
< 1273595743 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A tracing JIT notes which code-paths are often-used so that it can optimise them.
< 1273595756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm, why is it called "tracing"?
< 1273595761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has NOTHING to do with debuggers does it?
< 1273595764 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it traces the execution.
< 1273595768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so all such should be renamed!
< 1273595772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since unrelated to debuggers
< 1273595776 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by pikhq's logic
< 1273595783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, no?
< 1273595792 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No.
< 1273595808 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well, I just applied your logic to it. Same reasoning as above
< 1273595825 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "tracer" as used in Jitfunge is not tracing execution. Merely discovering all possible paths for execution.
< 1273595838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, for why to call it parser, not tracer. This should be called hot-spot-JIT instead of tracing JIT.
< 1273595840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or some such
< 1273595857 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HotSpot is a trademark of Oracle.
< 1273595873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said hot-spot, not HotSpot
< 1273595874 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And refers to the HotSpot JVM, which traces.
< 1273595894 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways, allow me to sum up this conversation.
< 1273595900 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're an idiot, and your mother's a whore.
< 1273595901 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what? why does it slow down by outputting a debug trace? ;P
< 1273595904 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1273595935 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Because the debugging type of tracing takes much more work than just noting which branches are taken often. ;)
< 1273595935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, anyway that doesn't follow. Debugger and JIT are not the same field. Nor is parsers and debuggers.
< 1273595937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so.. well
< 1273595956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems just fine to call it a tracer since it does trace the program. A tracing parser if you prefer
< 1273595964 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would you call something a "tracer" if it went through some C code and noted every possible branch?
< 1273595975 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you would, you're a fucking idiot.
< 1273596029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, depends. If it just marks every if/while/whatever with "here is a branch" then probably not. If it follows all the code paths, maybe.
< 1273596053 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're a fucking idiot.
< 1273596108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, it depends on what sort of thing it is used for I would say. Rather context dependant thus.
< 1273596158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, but generally I do think tracer makes more sense in a 2D language
< 1273596168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or more dimensions)
< 1273596190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably in unefunge too, so make it "multi-directional"
< 1273596209 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PARSER PARSER PARSER PARSER PARSER
< 1273596271 0 :marchdown!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273596326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm j might be possible to compile stil
< 1273596351 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be like a switch case for every instruction forward/backward in the IP path
< 1273596365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still*
< 1273596423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are certainly many other tricky instructions...
< 1273596424 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's still complexity explosion if there are too many
< 1273596536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hm? Not much unless you have many "go away from path" instructions during it. if you have stuff like j1234 you would get something like  switch { case 1: push(1); case 2: push(2); ... }
< 1273596544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, many fall-through
< 1273596597 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and of course it could also just join in into any other trace already done, say you have j blah blah ^ blah, where that ^ happens to be in the middle of another trace just going straight up through it
< 1273596604 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have a weird enough delta that j can hit your whole program; but I guess you're only considering cardinal deltas, in which case it's not that bad
< 1273596609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could goto into the middle of that trace in the suitable place
< 1273596633 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For only cardinal deltas, it can hit anywhere on that line/column/3d-equivalent
< 1273596645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well I was ignoring x here yes since we concluded that in general it isn't feasible to statically compile if you have that in the program
< 1273596676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes "anywhere in the same line/col/3d-equiv" isn't too bad
< 1273596729 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^src
< 1273596731 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^source
< 1273596732 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98
< 1273596766 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, not too bad still, plus a smart compiler could put a bound on the possible number in some cases.
< 1273596768 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D'oh, couple of x in there
< 1273596773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes
< 1273596791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and i, that wouldn't be easy to handle if it was allowed to modify code, which we must presume it isn't
< 1273596794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but fungot needs that
< 1273596794 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: we are looking to achieve a shorter life span... lavos will rule the world in a mere door that keeps us bound, hand, foot...and tongue kid? ...oh, it's you, isn't this morbid? the great adventurer toma levine rests in a grave to the north. it's a great place for a picnic! heard that magus's statue before my shift. i hate! ayla not like...
< 1273596833 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well you pretty much have to implement g/p anyway, and if you're going to assume that they never modify code you might as well assume the same for i
< 1273596841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1273596868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, wasn't that the context for this discussion? <pikhq> Deewiant: It's perfectly feasible to do Befunge without *program* mutation but with g and p. :P <pikhq> Though arguably this isn't Befunge, but rather a simpler, compilable language.
< 1273596882 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it was
< 1273596886 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is why I pointed out that i is no problem
< 1273596890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1273596898 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I see now
< 1273596908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, sorry, misread that line about i not being a problem
< 1273596931 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1273596969 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, what other instructions than x still pose a problem? j to some degree yes. but with x everything does more or less...
< 1273597032 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of the standard instructions, only x, I'm fairly sure
< 1273597042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1273597062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes fingerprints might, but those are too numerous to consider.
< 1273597064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well t
< 1273597071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to optimise
< 1273597090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :statically compiling the interleaving will most likely not work even if you don't optimise
< 1273597103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, consider if the t is hit a number of time depending on a ?
< 1273597110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such
< 1273597165 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Programs with t tend to rely on self-modification anyway
< 1273597178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you could manage without it
< 1273597202 0 :mostermand!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1273597306 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure the replacement for ><  and other thread using p to remove one of those > or <  would be a bit longer. something like >0# 0# g# _  code continues here
< 1273597313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should work to wait for something to change
< 1273597320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well for 0,0 it could be made shorter
< 1273597340 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :need a flag somewhere yes, but surely you can find some space in a 32-bit funge space easily even
< 1273597386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl
< 1273597716 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone ever checked out Zetaplex?
< 1273597765 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poiuy_qwert: Checked, yeah, used, no
< 1273597799 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool
< 1273598153 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poiuy_qwert: "Using the q command(By poiuy_qwert): "
< 1273598166 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it sounds like you know more than you let on
< 1273598339 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, lol, I got duped
< 1273598352 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poiuy_qwert: I thought Lode hand made Zeta and you did only Gamma
< 1273598356 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my bad :P
< 1273598424 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey theres no problem. you even knowing it exists makes me happy :P
< 1273598514 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh :) One of the first I toyed with due to the awesome looking befunge interp
< 1273598559 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273598600 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1273599210 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273599213 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273599235 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273599472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poiuy_qwert, zetaplex?
< 1273599482 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't sound familiar at all
< 1273599525 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think many people are familiar with it so don't feel left out ;P
< 1273599561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poiuy_qwert, "This language was designed to be very functional." <-- wait a second, not functional as in lisp or haskell is it?
< 1273599627 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :functional as it in can do a lot of stuff, not as in functions/procedures/methods
< 1273599635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1273599674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that befunge interpreter on the wikipage for zetaplex, 93 I assume?
< 1273599722 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe so. At the time I made that I didn't know there where variations *doh*
< 1273599743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when was it made? before 1998 perhaps?
< 1273599779 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when was what made, the befunge interpreter?
< 1273599803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1273599856 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, well Zetaplex was made in 2007 :P so sometime after that.
< 1273599867 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1273600012 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@150.140.229.33 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273600489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poiuy_qwert, is "This is a basic tic-tac-toe game (does not work with the current public interpreter, but the author will release the updated interpreter soon)" still valid?
< 1273600574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, btw as far as I can tell fungot only uses x in comments
< 1273600574 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alon
< 1273600581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or in one case, a string
< 1273600593 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, wonderful
< 1273600593 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: but, we are far outnumbered! yes. well, i better! whoosh! i wonder how everyone! humans! they're my friends!
< 1273600602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hey! saw that! A perfect one.
< 1273600615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as in, not just part of the line with it, the entire line!)
< 1273600627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait
< 1273600632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't it "can't stop it"?
< 1273600635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than "can't stop"
< 1273600741 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: in my old-new interpreter :P there are 3 interpreters, 1 public, an updated version of the public one that was never released, and now I'm working on the new one with a specification update. with a little tweaking it will work on the new interpreter though
< 1273600765 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so currently noone can run it unless i find that middle interpreter :P
< 1273601019 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fix what in jitfunge? (There's too much context for me to read.)
< 1273601035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that you call that part of it "tracing" iirc
< 1273601039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl
< 1273601324 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's a reasonable use of the word; I call "tracing" the part that interprets Funge-98 code, but also collects the instructions into a trace that can be JIT'd into code. It's quite a bit like what I understand is called a tracing JIT compiler.
< 1273601337 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not exactly a parser, since it also executes the code.
< 1273601447 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly I misuse the word a bit in that I use it also in the static compiler, where it's a lot more like a parser. I offer as an excuse that it does resemble the act of someone "tracing" the way the code would be executed with pen and paper, metaphoristically.
< 1273602868 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
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< 1273606139 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
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< 1273607263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I disagree about any excuse being needed
< 1273607272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was pikhq who thought that it was badly named
< 1273607736 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom_H@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273607776 0 :Phantom_1oover!~phantomho@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273607793 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1273607795 0 :Phantom_1oover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1273608102 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, for the static compiler it is a bit less justified.
< 1273608404 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone care to bash/grant constructive criticism to a new esolang of mine? or, at least the loose collection of ideas I had
< 1273608428 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato: Yes, it sucks and you should be ashamed.
< 1273608443 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION lols
< 1273608448 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://dpaste.com/193334/
< 1273608491 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :currently it's fugly, and I cant understand why my ideas aren't playing nicely together
< 1273608960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, btw you said parsers removed comments, I wish to differ. I'm pretty sure ick's parser does not
< 1273608973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are after all compiled into runtime syntax errors
< 1273608983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if they are executed that is)
< 1273609021 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and iirc that will only happen if you do strange things with reinstate)
< 1273609030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or something like that)
< 1273609332 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Quite obviously, it depends upon the language in question.
< 1273609342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1273609566 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato: () [] {} don't match.. maybe that is making it look bad to you?
< 1273609643 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: Possible...hmmm, yeah. Now I just think it's not a great way of combining my ideas
< 1273609689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<hiato> currently it's fugly, and I cant understand why my ideas aren't playing nicely together <-- it reminds me of intercal
< 1273609699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a bit more readable
< 1273609705 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah, lol
< 1273609720 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, erm, thanks :)
< 1273609727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, mX.~7|$!)~:-3?4(;! however is extremely close to intercal, there is something missing but can't pinpoint it
< 1273609739 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh maybe the mX and the )
< 1273609746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not completely sure about that though
< 1273609750 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been trying to come up with a lang that permits maximum expression in minimum code space
< 1273609762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, like, the reverse of intercal?
< 1273609788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it sounds like a language perfect for golfing with
< 1273609810 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes exactly.. a golf language
< 1273609816 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I guess the trouble is that case stuff, need to find a better encoding. As in, the current requires vars with names with at least three letters to express of possibilties
< 1273609828 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, isn't there one already?
< 1273609831 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot it's name
< 1273609838 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GolfScript
< 1273609838 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but perl wont fit in my watch.. I have the constraint of 900 byte states :)
< 1273609842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, ah that's it
< 1273609854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, eh?
< 1273609858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :900 bytes states?
< 1273609860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean
< 1273609878 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice!
< 1273609880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in RAM usage being 900 bytes at most or what?
< 1273609899 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :golfscript looks like a winner
< 1273609905 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ram is 125 bytes
< 1273609929 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rom is something like 24k.. but 900 bytes at a time, page swapped
< 1273609949 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the program code will have to share with the ram
< 1273610099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, what sort of device is this?
< 1273610117 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Timex Data Link USB wristwatch
< 1273610121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god
< 1273610150 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what?
< 1273610160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's quite insane to write programs for it
< 1273610166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with such a sucky architecture
< 1273610173 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, what is the CPU?
< 1273610198 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: I... Think that might be too little space for a Forth.
< 1273610203 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Epson S1C88349
< 1273610215 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, I can't think of any good reason for 1025 bytes of address space...
< 1273610224 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe some type of asm is the best I can do
< 1273610228 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 125 bytes.
< 1273610234 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not 1025.
< 1273610235 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :125.
< 1273610241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, 125 bytes of ram and 900 bytes of rom
< 1273610243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is 1025
< 1273610245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I add them up
< 1273610250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes I meant 1025
< 1273610251 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, yes.
< 1273610256 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The RAM is... Registers.
< 1273610262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm I see
< 1273610263 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(nearly)
< 1273610289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, are they treated as memory mapped?
< 1273610295 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not "is", but, good god. There's CPUs with more memory in its registers.
< 1273610356 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, you see, I can't figure out a good reason to have 1025 bytes in total, it means you will need an extra bit to address the last byte.
< 1273610368 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now that I think about it.. some machine code would be the smallest
< 1273610370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either you would use it fully or stop at 1024
< 1273610377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, well yes
< 1273610395 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not the native machine code, it's bloated
< 1273610399 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Seriously.
< 1273610402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm?
< 1273610409 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"WTF?"
< 1273610417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, about what I said?
< 1273610422 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah.
< 1273610429 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster there is more ram than 125 bytes
< 1273610430 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well, how do you address that ram
< 1273610436 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, ah that explains it
< 1273610437 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but most of it is used by the watch os
< 1273610446 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :125 bytes I can use
< 1273610463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, because 1025 bytes of address space made no sense indeed.
< 1273610475 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea why the states are 900 bytes tho
< 1273610486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, as opposed to?
< 1273610491 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like some power of 2 would have made more sense
< 1273610505 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, how much ram is there in total?
< 1273610521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :including the watch OS bit I mean
< 1273610546 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 min, need to get out my calc
< 1273610554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1273610605 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually nm, I don't feel like adding all that up
< 1273610610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1273610615 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2048 bytes, plus some extra in the lcd
< 1273610634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, well if when after you add it up you get 900 bytes left to the next power of two that is a good reason for 900 bytes
< 1273610645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means a non-power-of-two ram size though
< 1273610649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is pretty strange too
< 1273610806 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow.. the code is being copied into ram.. so you are absolutely right, I should be able to use any unused code space as extra ram
< 1273610826 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dang, wish I'd realized this before
< 1273610931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, hm if it is a rom you can't write it more than once
< 1273610940 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably you mean eeprom or whatever
< 1273610947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably flash if recent
< 1273611002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, and you don't want to rewrite some of those too often what with the limited cycle count (at least for flash, not completely sure for eeprom)
< 1273611076 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :flash is eeprom
< 1273611097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, not quite iirc.
< 1273611130 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather, flash is a subtype of eeprom
< 1273611131 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a specific type of EEPROM (electrically-erasable programmable read-only memory) that is erased and programmed in large blocks; in early flash the entire chip had to be erased at once.
< 1273611141 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(accoridng to wikipedia)
< 1273611156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes eeprom have limited cycle count too
< 1273611198 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have an eprom writer and eraser also .. I have no idea how many cycles you get there but it's fun to erase with the uv :)
< 1273611203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:DSCN0411.JPG <-- the wasted space makes me sad
< 1273611222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, do you still use it?
< 1273611230 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't see any good reason for it any more
< 1273611240 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Atari 5200
< 1273611253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, computer? or something else?
< 1273611273 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it's an early 80's gaming system
< 1273611278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a computer I don't see why it doesn't use something like floppies...
< 1273611279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, ah
< 1273611317 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's actually very similar to the atari 800, which does have an optional floppy drive.. but the game system only accepts cartridges
< 1273611336 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah I use it for that
< 1273611348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see
< 1273611385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, "EPROMs had a limited but large number of erase cycles; the silicon dioxide around the gates would accumulate damage from each cycle, making the chip unreliable after several thousand cycles. EPROM programming is slow compared to other forms of memory. Because higher-density parts have little exposed oxide between the layers of interconnects and gate, ultraviolet erasing becomes less practical for very large memories. Even dust insid
< 1273611385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e the package can prevent some cells from being erased."
< 1273611393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from wikipedia on EPROM
< 1273611409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so be careful with it unless you can easily find replacements
< 1273611424 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :several thousand cycles lol
< 1273611436 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'll take a while
< 1273611438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, how often do you reprogram it?
< 1273611444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what do you reprogram it for
< 1273611456 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not often, most development is via emulator
< 1273611488 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for testing out on the actual system, mostly for joystick and color issues
< 1273611515 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, I can't imagine why anyone still develop for it :D
< 1273611521 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's fun
< 1273611529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, besides, most people will only have emulator
< 1273611544 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people prgram for the atari 2600 still too
< 1273611551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1273611571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, the most I have done has been porting ick to Mac OS classic
< 1273611576 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a mostly finished game for the 2600
< 1273611590 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it kind of works, but only on real old macs, not in emulators
< 1273611602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get a system crash when compiling one of the files for ick in sheepshaver
< 1273611606 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't work in basilisk?
< 1273611609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and well, I doubt it would work on 68k
< 1273611619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only used sheepshaver and my old first-model ibook for it
< 1273611637 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, ick sometimes generate legal C code that mpw can't compile too
< 1273611651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor could codewarrior
< 1273611681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, but apart from that one file (I think it was some yacc or bison file) mpw under sheepshaver can compile it
< 1273611706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, it might work for 68k with some changes to the makfile
< 1273611724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but since sheepshaver crashes with 68k binaries most of the time I haven't tried
< 1273611742 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I have mpw
< 1273611750 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I wouldn't be able to test it for you, sorry
< 1273611753 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, I think it is no-cost
< 1273611756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nowdays
< 1273611761 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, then maybe
< 1273611763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, you can download some *.img from apple
< 1273611779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, never looked for old 68k versions. Try that site... what was the name
< 1273611786 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I have os 8.6 or whatever the last was that worked on 68k
< 1273611790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of old abandonware for mac
< 1273611795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1273611810 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to pull out my disks and retrieve an image
< 1273611825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, ah http://www.macintoshgarden.org/ might have it
< 1273611854 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was something cool that apple did.. made its oses freeware when they became obsolete
< 1273611865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/macintosh-programmer%E2%80%99s-workshop
< 1273611869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, ^
< 1273611880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, well I don't think OS 9 ever became freeware
< 1273611881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure
< 1273611887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is the one I have in sheepshaver
< 1273611894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I had an old legal copy of it
< 1273611897 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't matter.. os 9 doesn't run on 68k iirc
< 1273611913 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, well yes, but I wanted to play ppc games, not 68k ones!
< 1273611925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, to be specific, the old avernum series
< 1273611948 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have an old mac se
< 1273611971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might have played exile? Avernum was basically the same with upgraded graphics (isomeric instead of top-down/sideways mix) and such
< 1273611978 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also a couple powermacs
< 1273611989 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't recall, what was exile
< 1273612008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exile_%28video_game_series%29
< 1273612013 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and do you remember a game where you ran around inside a cave collecting jewels?
< 1273612018 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-243-203-60.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273612026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, no, but I played lots of modern such games
< 1273612037 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it had a sort of 3d to it
< 1273612045 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like an overhead
< 1273612052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't quite as common as remakes of snake, pacman, space invaders and so on
< 1273612064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still I have seen many
< 1273612073 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1273612083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boulderdash was one I played iirc
< 1273612085 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope haven't played exile, looks neat
< 1273612100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avernum_%28series%29
< 1273612114 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was pretty into moria tho
< 1273612154 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, which is basically same as exile but 1) more well balanced (exile had some issues with being very easy in parts and way too hard in others), 2) better graphics 3) a nice NPC dialog UI, especially Exile 1 had a bloody stupid UI for it
< 1273612162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a few more things
< 1273612188 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I liked not actually having graphics, as silly as that sounds
< 1273612201 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I love nethack if that is what you mean
< 1273612206 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1273612207 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, don't think I ever played moria
< 1273612222 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :angband is based off moria
< 1273612267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah I know of that, tested it too iirc
< 1273612275 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never got hooked
< 1273612309 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :angband had too many races and objects, better to keep it simple sometimes
< 1273612344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, oh iirc mpw came on segmented *.img
< 1273612348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that may be annoying to download
< 1273612355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also atm I'm trying to located the port
< 1273612365 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I may already have it
< 1273612381 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1273612410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc the changes consisted in: build system for mpw + a few small patches
< 1273612421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ick is written in relatively portable C mostly
< 1273612439 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :os 8.1 not 8.6
< 1273612443 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, oh and it won't compile for you since MPW tools can't invoke other MPW tools
< 1273612451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it will print the command into the mpw shell
< 1273612458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mpw is really really crazy :)
< 1273612589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, oh and you have to convert any INTERCAL files to use CR for line ending
< 1273612606 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273612626 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273612690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, I can make a patch against ick-0.29 if you want
< 1273612768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, most of the patch is handling the crazy path stuff
< 1273612802 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you see, ick generated paths like foo//bar.c instead of foo/bar.c (harmless) but foo:bar.c != foo::bar.c
< 1273612808 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latter is like foo/../bar.c
< 1273612837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also absolute path is messy to figure out
< 1273612841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have:
< 1273612846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo <-- file in current dir
< 1273612855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::foo <-- also file in current dir
< 1273612865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::foo:bar <-- ./foo/bar
< 1273612869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo:bar <-- /foo/bar
< 1273612878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather, that last one should be /mnt/foo/bar
< 1273612884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to better match
< 1273612888 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo is a volume name there
< 1273612904 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still copying the hard drive image off cd
< 1273612912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, hm?
< 1273612924 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for basilisk
< 1273613060 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, oh and yes you will need to change build system for pre-PPC. the ppc C compiler and the 68k ones had completely different command line options
< 1273613064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same goes for the linker
< 1273613097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afraid I can't help much there. but iirc it was simple to get help in mpw
< 1273613104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :help command
< 1273613107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :press Cmd-enter
< 1273613110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to execute line
< 1273613113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or selection)
< 1273613252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, I can't pastebin this file because line ending must not be converted in the patch, it is very important that the files that have CR continue to do so
< 1273613260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm going to upload it elsewhere
< 1273613265 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will take a few seconds
< 1273613307 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay looks like I do have mpw installed
< 1273613329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, does it work? try some example included
< 1273613335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also helps you figure out how it works
< 1273613343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I haven't written a readme or anything
< 1273613508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, ok remembered an old shell I have, putting it up there
< 1273613548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note this won't work with ipv6 (they have an AAAA entry but it seems broken atm, mentioned it to the guy who owns it, he is asleep atm though): http://pubacc.wilcox-tech.com/~anmaster/ick_classic_macppc.diff
< 1273613560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, needs to be applied on ick 0.29
< 1273613595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, the build system used will be in the dir macppc, and yes you will need to do something about the makefile :(
< 1273613599 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw stupid question.. what is ick?
< 1273613613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, ick = c-intercal
< 1273613618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1273613618 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1273613637 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, what else would one port to classic mac os
< 1273613645 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck
< 1273613650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boring
< 1273613654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it is trivial
< 1273613660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ick at least offers a challenge
< 1273613675 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay having trouble getting my networking going in the emulator
< 1273613681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ais523 (ick maintainer) mentioned several times it even works on DJGPP
< 1273613682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on
< 1273613689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so thus I had to take the challenge
< 1273613695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, I used the shared disk thingy
< 1273613696 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool
< 1273613705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, isn't there a volume called "unix" or such on the desktop?
< 1273613712 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1273613722 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, well where did you set it to point on the real file system?
< 1273613727 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I was to get netowrking going anyhow lol
< 1273613733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just put something in there and it will be visible
< 1273613751 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, iirc that was quite easy hm...
< 1273613806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, oh the mac port uses a hand written config.h :)
< 1273613816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might need to be fixed to work on 68k
< 1273613825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't be surprised if it needed even
< 1273613847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, oh and the makefile is in macroman :)
< 1273613855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do hope patch handles that properly
< 1273613859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I created the diff with bzr diff
< 1273613867 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck I hope it handles it too
< 1273613892 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool ie froze it
< 1273613900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, huh? what did you do?
< 1273613915 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it think it might just be trying to active dhcp
< 1273613933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, if you want I could .img the entire build dir (.img is likely to be most likely to preserve the encoding and everything else) but the object files will be ppc of course
< 1273613942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, it might work better than that diff
< 1273613949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure
< 1273613972 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :403 forbidden on  http://pubacc.wilcox-tech.com/~anmaster/ick_classic_macppc.diff
< 1273613975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh
< 1273613977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, let me check
< 1273613989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, fixed
< 1273613992 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid umask
< 1273613999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well 0022...
< 1273613999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1273614000 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where is the base
< 1273614006 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1273614008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, ick 0.29
< 1273614010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me find link
< 1273614021 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay I can search it thanks
< 1273614041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# Download C-INTERCAL from this server.
< 1273614041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# Download C-INTERCAL via gopher (IPv6 only).
< 1273614043 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf XD
< 1273614060 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what? 0.-2.0.29?
< 1273614065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine says just 0.29
< 1273614068 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe not
< 1273614075 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://overload.intercal.org.uk/c/
< 1273614081 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, hope that helps anyway
< 1273614167 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273614198 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't seem to connect to http://overload.intercal.org.uk/c/
< 1273614209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :works for me hm
< 1273614222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, what about http://c.intercal.org.uk/
< 1273614247 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope
< 1273614250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, ah the ipv6 works but not the ipv4
< 1273614254 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how unusual
< 1273614268 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, get an ipv6 tunnel, or wait a few minutes for me to upload it on that shell as well
< 1273614353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, okay it should be up on the same place as my patch
< 1273614360 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are gopher clients that support IPv6?
< 1273614361 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks
< 1273614370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, yes such as firefox
< 1273614375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, also lynx I think
< 1273614413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, now I hope it applies to that one. If not try running autoreconf and then applying it. It seems I might have done that before starting working, and who knows what that might have done to config.h.in and such
< 1273614423 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Got direct link to download? :-)
< 1273614428 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool I think I will have to sign up and get a shell with them
< 1273614428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, but even if it fails on any *.in files it should work well
< 1273614436 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, with who?
< 1273614446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, and it is on http://c.intercal.org.uk/
< 1273614453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"# Download C-INTERCAL from this server.
< 1273614453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# Download C-INTERCAL via gopher (IPv6 only)."
< 1273614469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, note that very server seems broken over ipv4 but works like a charm over ipv6
< 1273614473 0 :Rugxulo!~rugxulo@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273614479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gopher://gopher.intercal.org.uk/1C-INTERCAL <-- works for me
< 1273614482 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes ipv6
< 1273614485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in firefox
< 1273614493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, and who is it you have to get a shell with?
< 1273614508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, pubacc.wilcox-tech.com ? or what?
< 1273614520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might be nice yes
< 1273614526 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1273614539 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it allow cgi?
< 1273614548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc yes, but never used that
< 1273614551 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION isn't nearly the Atari enthusiast he probably should be
< 1273614587 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, quota is 100 MB but it depends on a lot on all-around niceness. It is a bit like "we don't add rules until we see they are needed"
< 1273614604 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool
< 1273614605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, very nice shell, though I have access to some more on that server (involved in running an irc network who that guy who owns that shell is also involved in)
< 1273614614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't have root on that one though
< 1273614630 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION blindly assumes calamari is heavy into AtariAge forums
< 1273614637 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am hosting with another place and they have an insane amount of restrictions
< 1273614643 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to be
< 1273614650 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't been on there in a while
< 1273614685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, the broken ipv6 annoys me on pubacc though. *goes to use one of the other domain names and hopes there aren't and weird vhosts*
< 1273614709 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone really use ipv6?
< 1273614748 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah works
< 1273614751 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, I do
< 1273614752 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: Not primarily.
< 1273614753 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and well
< 1273614760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, indeed not primarily
< 1273614765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but well, we will need it soon
< 1273614767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very very soon
< 1273614767 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, it damned well *will* become common sometime soon.
< 1273614777 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We've got about a year left of IPv4 adress space.
< 1273614777 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I could even get an ipv6 address from cox
< 1273614803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, I use a sixxs tunnel
< 1273614822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :works well, is fast (the end point for the tunnel is quite near here)
< 1273614827 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, Ick works with DJGPP, I tested it remember?
< 1273614852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, http://pubacc.wilcox-tech.com lists the rules iirc
< 1273614865 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll take a bit longer for us to be "absolutely out", as that is when the IANA runs out of allocations to RIRs.
< 1273614886 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, and I will be *very* *very* annoyed if you do anything like resource hogging on it, since one of the ircds run on it.
< 1273614890 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, as such, the RIRs will still be able to make allocations for at least a bit of time.
< 1273614906 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh is this your shell?
< 1273614927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, not mine, but I know the owner personally and I'm involved in that irc network as I said above
< 1273614929 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah I just have a simple webpage
< 1273614938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<AnMaster> calamari, very nice shell, though I have access to some more on that server (involved in running an irc network who that guy who owns that shell is also involved in)
< 1273614943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never read that line?
< 1273614951 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :traffic is probably next to none
< 1273614960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sure, I'm sure he will be okay
< 1273614966 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I bet the mnost traffic is via esolangs.org
< 1273614978 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, it is however in US, so US laws and such would apply
< 1273614984 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to whatever extent that applies
< 1273615001 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :phear teh U.S. (omg!)    :-P
< 1273615010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, well I was thinking about DMCA and so on
< 1273615028 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I very much doubt the owner would like that
< 1273615057 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION missed what exactly you two were trying to accomplish ... ??
< 1273615069 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: got distracted sorry
< 1273615074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, read the patch in http://pubacc.wilcox-tech.com/~anmaster/ :)
< 1273615076 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am trying to compile ick on 68k
< 1273615078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, that :)
< 1273615085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know it works on ppc
< 1273615091 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how did Atari 2600 and 5200 come up?
< 1273615093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it will need some modification for 68k mpw
< 1273615094 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION confused
< 1273615101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, by time warp?
< 1273615103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever
< 1273615114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no that didn't make sense)
< 1273615144 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P.S. (to calamari) AnMaster wasn't even alive when 5200 came out! (I think)
< 1273615155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, depends. when did it come out?
< 1273615171 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1983 I think
< 1273615175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then no
< 1273615184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before my time indeed
< 1273615185 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget, '82 or '84 ?? must've been '82 or such as 1984 brought about the crash, and 7800 came out two years late ('86) when NES got popular
< 1273615186 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~chatzilla@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273615203 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah definitely not 84
< 1273615205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, 1986 was before my time too
< 1273615219 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION loads the logs
< 1273615223 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not exactly well-versed myself ('79), but I do have a JagCD and (broken) Lynx II
< 1273615236 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :78.. I'm an old man :P
< 1273615239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the heck are those?
< 1273615253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, 01989
< 1273615254 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JagCD and Lynx? more Atari machines
< 1273615256 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Atari Jaguar with the toilet attachment
< 1273615259 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1273615271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, how would CD stand for toilet?
< 1273615280 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Video games?
< 1273615281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't it be WC
< 1273615282 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it looks like a toilet (finds Wikipedia pic)
< 1273615286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for toilet
< 1273615298 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari_Jaguar_CD
< 1273615310 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :had a 68000, too (among others)!
< 1273615330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, that looks surprisingly modern
< 1273615339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean using a cd instead of a cartridge
< 1273615341 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was their last machine before "reverse merger" (go bye bye)
< 1273615356 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1995-ish for the CD part, 1993 for the base cart part
< 1273615363 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was the first 64 bit gaming system (well mostly 64 bit)
< 1273615365 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same guy who did built-in VLM in JagCD did one for XBox 360
< 1273615376 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are extremely minimal imperative, stack-based and functional programming.
< 1273615382 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly, yes ... even though everybody disagrees (as if it matters)
< 1273615384 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So why not other paradigms?
< 1273615389 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like logic...
< 1273615393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, huh?
< 1273615401 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, VLM?
< 1273615412 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read the article, silly, it explains it   ;-)
< 1273615428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1273615469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"and a Myst demo disc. " <-- what?
< 1273615473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't that a mac game?
< 1273615475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1273615477 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1273615480 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Myst runs on many machines
< 1273615486 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myst was on windows also
< 1273615490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have Myst for mac somewhere
< 1273615492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, legal cd
< 1273615498 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the demo disc was just a "demo" (incomplete game) that came with the hardware with a few other CDs too (Tempest 2k soundtrack)
< 1273615502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bundled with an old performa iirc
< 1273615509 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol for that matter, you could make myst in dhtml
< 1273615528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, with html5 and the video stuff yes
< 1273615536 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blue Lightning (CD game), Tempest 2000 soundtrack (CD audio for VLM), Myst "demo", oh and Vid Grid (CD music video game)
< 1273615543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it did include videos for moving parts as bit of the screen in some places
< 1273615544 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what mine came with
< 1273615556 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :barely
< 1273615556 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273615556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1273615560 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it did, but videos are easy these days
< 1273615571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, oh and myst was and is a good game
< 1273615580 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never even beat it, got fairly close though
< 1273615581 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I enjoyed it
< 1273615586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :took we weeks to beat it
< 1273615593 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got stuck in some underground tunnel, couldn't figure out what the heck to do
< 1273615600 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably need to just get a walkthrough one of these days   ;-)
< 1273615601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, and that safe code in the log house? I found it on first try by pure chance
< 1273615616 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P(for that) = 1/999 iirc
< 1273615619 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kinda tedious game, but whatever
< 1273615623 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION likes arcade games a bit more
< 1273615640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, oh that underground tunnel, different sounds for north/south/east/west iirc
< 1273615644 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lynx had many more good arcade ports, though
< 1273615644 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still have the cd.. maybe it works under wine lol
< 1273615648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and combinations for different directions
< 1273615656 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1273615659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could rotate for the right direction
< 1273615666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, only if quicktime does I bet
< 1273615671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it used that at least on mac
< 1273615683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't surprise me if it used qt for windows too
< 1273615685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on
< 1273615720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, if you were in that tunnel in some vessel that is
< 1273615737 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck, somebody even ported Tempest 2000 to DOS, but all I've ever found was a demo
< 1273615746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was Tempest about?
< 1273615761 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although somebody else remade it as Tsunami 2010 for Windows (but heavily depended on gfx card for some stuff)
< 1273615763 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~chatzilla@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273615771 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shooting alien bug thingies coming out of a vortex / hole
< 1273615783 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew a guy that ported Tempest to an enhanced dvd player
< 1273615792 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempest_2000
< 1273615792 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, ??
< 1273615806 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Minter did Tempest 2000 (Jag) and Tempest 3000 (Nuon DVD)
< 1273615808 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, all levels the same?
< 1273615811 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1273615816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with just different enemies I mean
< 1273615821 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1273615823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same hole idea all the time?
< 1273615825 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AARGH! Video games!
< 1273615826 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of variation
< 1273615837 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same tube / hole idea, but with many different enemies and obstacles
< 1273615838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, make an esoteric one
< 1273615849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, boring
< 1273615849 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempest_3000
< 1273615855 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. But how would it work?
< 1273615860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, I always preferred RPGs
< 1273615863 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should say I knew the guy working on nuon
< 1273615864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and adventure
< 1273615877 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the guy" ... who did what?
< 1273615888 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boring? no way, it's a classic, seriously!
< 1273615891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, <calamari> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempest_3000
< 1273615899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, so is pacman, it is also boring
< 1273615909 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pac-Man is very hard, that's why it's boring (to me)
< 1273615921 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ms. Pac-Man is a bit more fun
< 1273615922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, I want a story in my games. Zelda (not zelda 1 though), secret of mana, games like that
< 1273615925 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like NetHack.
< 1273615946 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except it has enough variation that if you don't die for long enough it gets entertaining.
< 1273615947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well, nethack is technically interesting and somewhat varied.
< 1273615953 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arcade games usually don't have stories, they are good mostly for quick sessions, trying to get high scores, completing levels, etc.
< 1273615957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus there are lots of ways to die
< 1273615962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, funny ones too
< 1273615968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, but ascended a few times :)
< 1273615972 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't even die in Myst (although you might want to, heh)
< 1273615976 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there's always debug mode...
< 1273615983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I mean outside debug mode
< 1273615987 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sure debug mode is interesting
< 1273615994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :riding a black dragon for example
< 1273616005 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. I have *never* made it past Sokoban.
< 1273616006 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which can happen otherwise too
< 1273616017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug*
< 1273616024 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then it was only because I found a /oD in a bones file.
< 1273616025 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, worst . game . ever ... Presswurst (DON'T even bother reading about it)
< 1273616031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Rugxulo> you can't even die in Myst (although you might want to, heh) <-- you can loose the game though
< 1273616040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, there are two ways to do it iirc
< 1273616057 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lose as in not doing such and such correctly at the end? (yeah, I know)
< 1273616058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, but myth is interesting, there is a story to it
< 1273616070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you read the books in the library and so on
< 1273616071 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's interesting, just somewhat easy to get lost
< 1273616089 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like games that let you run around in circles, esp. since I always end up doing that out of confusion!
< 1273616090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, nah, I have a paper with the codes somewhere, wrote them down to make replay easier
< 1273616099 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too, but it's still tough
< 1273616109 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because yes rotating that tower to get the codes, that is boring
< 1273616117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the star map thingy
< 1273616141 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's been at least four or five years since I've played it
< 1273616150 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a year or two I guess
< 1273616176 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if Tsunami 2010 works in WINE
< 1273616197 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"opengl accelerator recommended" ... probably a dealbreaker
< 1273616211 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember it liked one video card, the other not so much   :-/
< 1273616220 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: underflow
< 1273616250 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: did you get lost when you first played Doom?  I did, it was great
< 1273616287 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't remember, been a long time since I first played Doom
< 1273616307 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nowadays I'd rather play FreeDoom   ;-)
< 1273616362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never played doom
< 1273616365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never liked FPS
< 1273616381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I prefer RPGs :)
< 1273616472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, tell me if you get ick working, it should be possible to base the build system on the ppc one, if you get it to work please send me a patch and I shall try to integrate it so both works
< 1273616491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, oh and that .pax.gz, it can be unpacked with tar
< 1273616507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll leave it to ais523 to explain what pax is
< 1273616521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or anyone else who knows the history of POSIX, tar and pax
< 1273616530 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's Yet Another Archiving Format, isn't it?
< 1273616534 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1273616550 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Along with tar and cpio.
< 1273616553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, yes mostly, but it was done because there were so many incompatible tar versions out there
< 1273616567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc pax is mostly tar compatible too
< 1273616570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funnily
< 1273616575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it is POSIX standard
< 1273616577 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there is the standard nerd religious war over it?
< 1273616602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well pax was a compromise because no vendor wanted to switch to another vendors' tar format
< 1273616620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes iirc there is a cpioâ†â†’tar war
< 1273616634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't think pax is involved in it
< 1273616637 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah cpio for initrd's
< 1273616647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, iirc rpm are cpio-based too
< 1273616648 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pax involved in war? that would be irony   ;-)
< 1273616654 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1273616689 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be.. I prefer debian :)
< 1273616700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pax_%28Unix%29
< 1273616705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, and I prefer arch linux
< 1273616712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which uses tar.xz nowdays
< 1273616722 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xz?
< 1273616723 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lzip is gaining in popularity, too
< 1273616744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Rather than sort out the incompatible options that have crept up between tar and cpio, along with their implementations across various versions of UNIX, the IEEE designed a new archive utility."
< 1273616752 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: xz is a compression format that uses the LZMA algorithm.
< 1273616752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(about pax)
< 1273616764 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool, new to me
< 1273616766 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though that ignores the tar-tar wars too
< 1273616769 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the defacto successor to the "lzma" program.
< 1273616773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1273616778 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er ... barely
< 1273616780 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, and incompatible with lzma
< 1273616786 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes.
< 1273616790 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should all switch to ZOO
< 1273616793 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.7z is the official format, but it's not really 100% *nix friendly (he focuses a lot on Win32)
< 1273616796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, as in, lzma can't unpack xz, annoying on my jaunty laptop
< 1273616796 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though the xz program supports lzma files just fine.
< 1273616806 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do we need 20-odd archive-compression combinations?
< 1273616817 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :p7zip should be able to unpack .xz if you use 9.04, but sadly that version is fairly old and buggy
< 1273616819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what was wrong with .lzma?
< 1273616829 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't recall.
< 1273616833 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no clue.. gz and bz2 seem fine
< 1273616839 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lzma isn't a real format, just a raw data dump (I think?)
< 1273616853 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.7z (LZMA) is much much stronger and faster than Bzip2
< 1273616854 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: No, it had headers and everything, I though.\
< 1273616870 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it lacks something (permissions? Unicode? large files?)
< 1273616876 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't remember either
< 1273616885 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, .zoo, long dead
< 1273616887 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does it strip another 100 bytes off? lol
< 1273616901 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, .lzma isn't an archive format
< 1273616904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is compression
< 1273616908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same goes for xz
< 1273616912 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the biggest block size in Bzip2 is 900k, I think 7-Zip can go into the GB for dictionaries
< 1273616913 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all both are used over tar
< 1273616928 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: Significantly better compression than bzip2, and much faster decompression.
< 1273616931 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only because of *nix permissions, on Win32 nobody cares about .tar
< 1273616958 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7-Zip can do Bzip2 compression in .7z, .Zip, or .bz2 formats
< 1273616971 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or use LZMA, LZMA2, PPMD, etc.
< 1273617007 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Ah*. The .lzma format had stupid, arbitrary limits on the compression options for the LZMA algorithm.
< 1273617013 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, I think the fastest way to compress with 7-Zip is "-mx1 -m0=bzip2"
< 1273617052 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay installed xz, so now I can do tar -Jcvf :)
< 1273617052 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sees topic) "Esperanto is still bannable!" ... huh??
< 1273617071 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(such as limits on the dictionary size)
< 1273617100 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: *Surely* gzip is faster.
< 1273617120 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably, it only uses 32k dictionaries (or whatever)
< 1273617139 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but 7-Zip has its own improved Deflate, even eeks out a smaller file   ;-)
< 1273617155 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does 7z compare to rar?
< 1273617158 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What with gzip being one of the faster compression formats in common use and all...
< 1273617165 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: Strictly better, IIRC.
< 1273617167 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rar is proprietary, only Unrar is semi-free
< 1273617176 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's okay, from what I hear
< 1273617188 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah.. rar is used a lot in piracy
< 1273617205 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least it used to be
< 1273617207 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rar is popular in Russia, Lha is still popular in Japan, Zip in U.S., etc. etc.
< 1273617214 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Rugxulo> only because of *nix permissions, on Win32 nobody cares about .tar <-- sure, and I don't care about win32
< 1273617217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor win64
< 1273617220 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know
< 1273617225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though win64 is marginally more interesting
< 1273617227 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just saying, .7z by itself is fine for us   ;-)
< 1273617235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, it isn't like .7z or .zip can do windows ACLs either
< 1273617253 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno
< 1273617260 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.tar also lets you archive things like block devices. :)
< 1273617264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, oh and bzip2 is very slow to compress
< 1273617265 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And named pipes!
< 1273617268 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yes quite
< 1273617271 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1273617279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, not the data in those though
< 1273617286 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty slow, yes, but it claims to be faster than PPMD while still being fairly competitive
< 1273617296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well faster than ppmd sure
< 1273617300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but compared to gzip or whatever
< 1273617304 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's that punycode name in /topic?
< 1273617312 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: PPMD is *extremely* slow.
< 1273617315 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask Gregor-L
< 1273617315 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Just a Unicode string.
< 1273617345 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, PAQ is extremely slow   ;-)
< 1273617357 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, ĺ•ăŻĺ•ŹéˇŚă«ă¦ă‹ă‚łăĽă‰ăŚĺĄ˝ăŤă ă€‚
< 1273617371 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might be a permutation thereof, though.
< 1273617428 0 :impomatic!~chatzilla@87.115.109.119 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273617429 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as klingon isn't bannable
< 1273617433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Rugxulo> Rar is popular in Russia, Lha is still popular in Japan, Zip in U.S., etc. etc. <-- the only files I run into on daily basis are .tar.{gz,xz,bz2,lzma}, and very rarely .zip. A few times (when messing with Mac OS classic simulators): .zip
< 1273617434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1273617436 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.sit*
< 1273617438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the last one
< 1273617445 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even more rarely .sitx
< 1273617456 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has anyone seen this on Amazon? "Befunge: Stack- oriented Programming Language, Reflection (computer science), Esoteric Programming Language, Programming Language, Brainfuck, INTERCAL, Whitespace (programming language), Malbolge (Paperback)" http://bit.ly/cYWyWE
< 1273617457 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.zip is still used very frequently
< 1273617460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what does it mean
< 1273617466 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, I mean on real OS ;P
< 1273617480 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on Windows
< 1273617481 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the Klingon programming language still online?  It used to be on Geocities.
< 1273617493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but true, it is used in .jar, .odt and so on
< 1273617503 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, what a title
< 1273617504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, I said which ones I ran into
< 1273617504 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "I love Unicode in my topics."
< 1273617504 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :84 pages isn't much
< 1273617515 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had also put the same in English into the topic.
< 1273617534 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"currently unavailable"
< 1273617581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Howsabout we put "esoteric programming languages" SOMEWHERE in the topic? | Esperanto is still bannable! | Je peux utiliser une langue Ă©trangĂ¨re aussi. | xn--v8jad0f7b6z4eoa6v0hk534a7hlwhnnl8s. | Jag Ă¤lskar Unicode i mina topicar.  | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D
< 1273617589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :need to find a Swedish word for topics
< 1273617601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that Englishism looks absurd
< 1273617602 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION confused about E-o reference
< 1273617609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, E-o?
< 1273617614 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esperanto
< 1273617633 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Rugxulo was kicked from #esoteric (bannable!)
< 1273617644 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but seriously, no clue)
< 1273617656 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, any comments? (seen you mention it before)
< 1273617658 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ask Gregor.
< 1273617679 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: QaP'Lah!
< 1273617687 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Swedish word? smorgasborg?
< 1273617695 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gesundheit
< 1273617716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, none of them are Swedish
< 1273617733 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know gesundheit isn't, that was a (corny) joke, but the other either??
< 1273617741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first one means <nonsense>-gas-fortress
< 1273617757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(gas as in "not solid" not as in "fuel")
< 1273617778 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, but with some dots over things it may mean completely different things
< 1273617785 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :smörgĺsbord
< 1273617789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1273617791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very very different
< 1273617805 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION not Swedish, not know spell good thusly
< 1273617814 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, that is why forgetting dots and rings in Swedish is such a bad idea. you end up with something meaning something completely different
< 1273617816 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That Esolang book is available on the German Amazon.  34 Euros :-(
< 1273617828 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, as in gas = gas, gĂĄs = gose
< 1273617854 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know I know, accents, diacritics, blah ... not something I use a lot (in English)   ;-)
< 1273617863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT diacritics as such
< 1273617863 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: url?
< 1273617869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, they are different letters in the alphabet
< 1273617873 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know I know ... special characters
< 1273617874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, and well, borg = fortress, bord = table
< 1273617888 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :34 EU is too much for 84 pages!!
< 1273617896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, I was unable to guess what you meant though apart from "smĂ¶r"
< 1273617910 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :E-o has 28 letters, six of which have special marks over them (circumflex * 5, breve * 1)
< 1273617916 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esolang book on German Amazon http://bit.ly/avuLtH
< 1273617935 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Smorgasborg is spelled smörgĺsbord
< 1273617936 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you refer to a buffet in swedish.
< 1273617936 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(smörgĺs is a sandwich and bord a table in swedish)"
< 1273617964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes indeed
< 1273617982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, but the original word had in part a sensible and different meaning
< 1273617989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus the confusion
< 1273618018 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Sprache: Englisch" ... and yet not available except on German section of Amazon??
< 1273618064 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How unusual.
< 1273618127 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use lulu.com to make your esolang book :)
< 1273618194 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I there are 23246 books by the same three authors.  I think they must me scraping content from the net and publishing it as print on demand or something.  http://bit.ly/bqvVWb
< 1273618239 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shame, I thought it'd be quite cool if someone actually wrote an esolang book :-(
< 1273618242 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it certainly looks weird (long obscure titles, boring subjects)
< 1273618343 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chris Pressey would have to be the author of an esolang book anyhow
< 1273618382 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or Wouter
< 1273618397 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto en es Happy birthday!
< 1273618410 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ä„Feliz cumpleaĹ„os!
< 1273618414 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto en eo Happy birthday!
< 1273618416 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1273618420 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1273618433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a 2.9 GB tar
< 1273618437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uncompressed
< 1273618444 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is?
< 1273618445 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto en bf Happy birthday!
< 1273618448 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hits xilinx with something very very heavy
< 1273618448 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :var sl_select, tl_select, web_sl_select, web_tl_select;var ctr, web_ctr, h;var tld = ".com";var sug_lab = "";var sug_thk = "";var sug_exp = "";var dhead = "Dictionary";var dmore = "View detailed dictionary";var tr_in = "Translating...";var isurl = "";var show_roman = "Show romanization";var hide_roman =
< 1273618451 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, BTW, found a recursive .ZIP earlier today    ;-)
< 1273618453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, this download...
< 1273618467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and stupid thing is I need a single file from it probably
< 1273618475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :around 10 MB of it
< 1273618480 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but can't download just part
< 1273618482 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273618486 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did I break it?
< 1273618487 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if he accidentally broke HackEgo
< 1273618497 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, whew, you broke it, not me    ;-)
< 1273618500 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, HackEgo was already broken.
< 1273618508 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto en es Happy birthday!
< 1273618511 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ä„Feliz cumpleaĹ„os!
< 1273618511 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a command called "textbf" or something
< 1273618520 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whew
< 1273618521 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`textbf hi
< 1273618522 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1273618523 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto en bf Look how broken you are!
< 1273618525 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :var sl_select, tl_select, web_sl_select, web_tl_select;var ctr, web_ctr, h;var tld = ".com";var sug_lab = "";var sug_thk = "";var sug_exp = "";var dhead = "Dictionary";var dmore = "View detailed dictionary";var tr_in = "Translating...";var isurl = "";var show_roman = "Show romanization";var hide_roman =
< 1273618528 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I forget, but it does exist
< 1273618531 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1273618536 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just being silly
< 1273618540 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`text2bf hi
< 1273618541 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1273618546 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls
< 1273618547 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls bin
< 1273618548 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ cube2.base64 \ cube2.jpg \ hack_gregor \ hello.txt \ help.txt \ huh \ netcat-0.7.1 \ netcat-0.7.1.tar.gz \ out.txt \ paste \ poetry.txt \ quotes \ share \ test.sh \ tmpdir.23634 \ wunderbar_emporium \ wunderbar_emporium-3.tgz \ wunderbar_emporium-3.tgz.1
< 1273618549 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? \ addquote \ calc \ commands \ creatures \ define \ esolang \ etymology \ fortune \ google \ helpme \ imdb \ karma \ marco \ minifind \ paste \ ping \ quote \ rec \ roll \ runfor \ sayhi \ strfile \ swedish \ toutf8 \ translate \ translatefromto \ translateto \ unstr \ url \ wolfram
< 1273618549 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`bftext hi
< 1273618552 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1273618575 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`tobf hi
< 1273618577 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1273618577 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run translatefromto en es Happy birthday! | toutf8
< 1273618577 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has "gen" in the name somewhere, and wasn't it an egobot thing?
< 1273618582 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :var sl_select, tl_select, web_sl_select, web_tl_select;var ctr, web_ctr, h;var tld = ".com";var sug_lab = "";var sug_thk = "";var sug_exp = "";var dhead = "Dictionary";var dmore = "View detailed dictionary";var tr_in = "Translating...";var isurl = "";var show_roman = "Show romanization";var hide_roman =
< 1273618593 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bftxtgen was an EgoBot thing, yeah.
< 1273618597 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`bftextgen hi
< 1273618598 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1273618600 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`commands
< 1273618602 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?, addquote, calc, commands, creatures, define, esolang, etymology, fortune, \ google, helpme, imdb, karma, marco, minifind, paste, ping, quote, rec, roll, \ runfor, sayhi, strfile, swedish, toutf8, translate, translatefromto, \ translateto, unstr, url, wolfram
< 1273618606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run rm -rf wunderbar_emporium*
< 1273618606 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1273618607 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1273618613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run rm -rf */wunderbar_emporium*
< 1273618614 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1273618620 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help
< 1273618620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc it is an exploit
< 1273618621 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help <command>.
< 1273618626 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf_txtgen hi
< 1273618627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsuccessfully tried
< 1273618632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, that can be a bit slow
< 1273618636 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :41 ++++++++[>+++++++++++++>+>><<<<-]>.+.>++. [61]
< 1273618638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there
< 1273618648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, it isn't very efficient for short strings
< 1273618653 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it with genetic algorithms
< 1273618665 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf_txtgen hello world
< 1273618667 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote that :)
< 1273618668 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :102 ++++++++[>+>+++++++++++++>++++><<<<-]>>.---.+++++++..+++.>.<++++++++.--------.+++.------.--------.<++. [763]
< 1273618670 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See for example >><< there.
< 1273618701 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it's always 4 cells in the multiplication loop.
< 1273618704 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help languages
< 1273618704 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh.
< 1273618705 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :had completely forgotten he integrated it into egobot
< 1273618733 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Genetic algorithms?  That seems like not the best way to do that.
< 1273618741 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!befunge 93*.@
< 1273618744 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :27
< 1273618748 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whee!
< 1273618769 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: I'd encourage you to find the best way to do it.. then be sure to write a paper on it :)
< 1273618771 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`bf_txtgen Boo hiss.
< 1273618772 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1273618780 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :! not `
< 1273618795 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1273618798 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf_txtgen Quite.
< 1273618800 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :94 +++++++++[>+++++++++++++>+++++++++>+++++>+<<<<-]>>.<.>++++++++++++++++++++++++.<-.>----.>+.>+. [928]
< 1273618823 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1273618824 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf_txtgen 1[aj[jaj1[[1jaj[a1j[1j1j[a[[j1jaja[1j1[aj
< 1273618827 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :286 ++++++++++++[>++++>+++++++>++++++++>++++<<<<-]>+.>+++++++.>+.+++++++++.<.>.<++++++.>.<<.>------..<.>>.<++++++.>.---------------.<.<.>+++++++++.>.>+.<<.<.>.>.<<++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.>>..<.>>.<<.<.>.<.>>.>.<<.>>.<.<<.>.>>---------------------------------------. [572]
< 1273618831 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it is returning quickly he must have the interations low
< 1273618844 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iterations
< 1273618887 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf_txtgen yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
< 1273618891 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :228 +++++++++++++++[>++++++++>++++++++>++++++++>++++++++<<<<-]>+..>+.......>+.......<..........<.....>>.>+......<....>..---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------. [357]
< 1273618893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, isn't the iteration count the number in []?
< 1273618901 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no that's the length
< 1273618901 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is probably a really stupid solution.
< 1273618911 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, then the number at the front?
< 1273618917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, stripping those >><< would be a good idea btw
< 1273618935 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actgually you're right
< 1273618936 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, it sure is
< 1273618943 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1273618949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, but it adds a newline at the end
< 1273618951 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better: +++++++++++[>+++++++++++>>><<<<-]>..............................................>.
< 1273618954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could explain part of it
< 1273618959 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let it run longer it does better :)
< 1273618961 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: null
< 1273618971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, I know
< 1273618976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a human can do even better
< 1273618980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like using multiple loops
< 1273618982 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1273618984 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or not using loops at all
< 1273618997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf_txtgen
< 1273619000 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20 +++++[>++>>><<<<-]>. [11]
< 1273619005 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a newline?
< 1273619012 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5*2.
< 1273619013 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not too bad
< 1273619023 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I guess newline and null are not the same character.  :P
< 1273619024 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, too lazy to count those first pluses
< 1273619035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, of course they aren't
< 1273619045 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, what made you think they were?
< 1273619049 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could run the output through a cleaner to get rid of the ><
< 1273619054 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Absence of mind.
< 1273619061 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1273619082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be done in genetic algo though
< 1273619088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to favour short solutions properly
< 1273619089 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BrainFuck text generation: not an especially active field of research, I guess.
< 1273619092 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a pretty hard problem to solve tho
< 1273619095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, if you only remove those at the end
< 1273619103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might be miscalculating
< 1273619112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in advantage for a worse solution
< 1273619136 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the fuck
< 1273619139 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the reason it has those is because you set the number of memory cells used as an option
< 1273619140 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VDM_Publishing is the scam company producing all the books with material scraped from the net.
< 1273619143 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mathematica shows a license dialog at start
< 1273619149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are they limited to one year or something?
< 1273619153 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suddenly, I want to make a programming language based on LZW.
< 1273619170 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they aren't impacting the result
< 1273619210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait
< 1273619212 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually, you would experient with different numbers of cells to see which gives the best result
< 1273619213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it works again
< 1273619214 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wth
< 1273619226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I see, it only works when network is up how strange
< 1273619236 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta phone home
< 1273619246 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, no, as in ethernet hardware running
< 1273619252 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2.2/20100316074819]
< 1273619252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not as in connected
< 1273619267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, you know, modprobed
< 1273619276 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oic
< 1273619291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had it removed to save battery before (it does make a difference of about 0.25 W according to powertop)
< 1273619304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wlan saves even more when down of course
< 1273619306 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :several watts
< 1273619318 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They do have that license server nonsense, but one would think it'd be enough to have a loopback interface up.
< 1273619331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I have to assume it was up
< 1273619336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all iirc X needs it
< 1273619367 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe they've keyed the license to the Ethernet MAC. Changed NICs? Buy a new copy.
< 1273619424 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1273619428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay *kicks Xilinx*. This is the worst idea for download ever invented
< 1273619446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main file: a 2.9 GB uncompressed tar
< 1273619462 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what were you downloading anyways?
< 1273619469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :containing according to tar -tf amongst other things large uncompressed files but also:
< 1273619474 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Xilinx_ISE_DS_Lin_12.1_M.53d.0.4/idata/drop_0122_ise.zip.xz
< 1273619478 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.zip.xz
< 1273619481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT THE HELL
< 1273619496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, well, if it is Xilinx it should be easy to guess
< 1273619497 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps a Stored .ZIP?
< 1273619503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who knows
< 1273619554 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen quite many .rars inside .rars inside .rars.
< 1273619564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, anyway Xilinx makes FPGAs
< 1273619573 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1273619574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that should answer what I'm downloading
< 1273619583 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, seems p7zip is *still* stuck at 9.04 beta (bah)
< 1273619592 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, I don't see the point of zip
< 1273619597 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.tar.xz is perfectly fine
< 1273619598 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, have you seen recursive archives yet?
< 1273619620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least it has both bin/lin and bin/lin64 in it
< 1273619633 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then to install the thing in a chroot of course
< 1273619644 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't trust xilinx an inch
< 1273619652 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Yes, if you mean that .zip/etc that extracts into a copy of itself.
< 1273619667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless I can extract only the gate timing info somehow
< 1273619670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for use with ghdl
< 1273619682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, link?
< 1273619706 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Grep logs for r.zip here. I have just this phone now.
< 1273619726 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, n900 is not "just this phone" it is "wow this amazing phone"
< 1273619727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1273619728 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to see a chain version; a .zip that extracts to a .rar that extracts to a .tar.xz tha extracts to the original .zip.
< 1273619744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, make that yourself! :D
< 1273619760 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://swtch.com/r.zip anyhow.
< 1273619781 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Extracts into r/r.zip with the same contents.
< 1273619789 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://research.swtch.com/2010/03/zip-files-all-way-down.html
< 1273619808 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants an n900, but can't afford it
< 1273619860 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants a calamari but can't palate it
< 1273620117 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do you want the impalatable?
< 1273620136 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Impalable.
< 1273620155 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, sorry.
< 1273620203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The nice thing about r.gz is that even broken web browsers that ordinarily decompress downloaded gzip data before storing it to disk will handle this file correctly! "
< 1273620212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I hope none do it recursively
< 1273620217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably aren't coded to do that
< 1273620249 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is r.gz a gzip quine?
< 1273620269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1273620377 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273620441 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: From the comments: "In Safari on Mac OS X, with the option 'open "safe" files after downloading' set (on by default), it keeps uncompressing and filling up my disk. "safe" indeed ..."
< 1273620452 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That was for the .zip.)
< 1273620457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha
< 1273620479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :silly it does it recursively
< 1273620512 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.9/20100315083431]
< 1273620577 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273620676 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://research.swtch.com/2010/03/zip-files-all-way-down.html
< 1273620686 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Recursion for the win."  Ironically, his solution uses no recursion.
< 1273620687 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273620707 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, GCC will include gccgo in future versions
< 1273620743 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders for a moment whether that's a compiler that takes a Go move and compiles it to a Go board with a response.
< 1273620748 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1273620807 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's that new Google language
< 1273621065 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie still here?
< 1273621072 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever heard of this?    http://github.com/bonzini/superopt
< 1273621375 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately I'm already asleep. (Or at least close enough for practical purposes.)
< 1273621431 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, hm?
< 1273621432 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also called "the engineer's asleep".)
< 1273621452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, XD
< 1273621497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, I heard of superoptimisers before
< 1273621503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, but that is length not time
< 1273621512 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some longer sequence might be faster
< 1273621523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(x87 vs. SSE comes to mind here)
< 1273621546 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86 is a pain to optimize for, seems impossible   o_O
< 1273621573 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Different things are faster on different architectures.
< 1273621577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, same goes for many other arches though... cache effects, some nops to align on cache boundary might make it faster and so on
< 1273621592 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, I now wonder why OS X uses x86 these days.
< 1273621617 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Because Intel offers better production guarantees on CPUs than IBM.
< 1273621619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't just x86 where you have cache effects and god know what else though
< 1273621626 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods.
< 1273621630 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. s/architectures/chips/
< 1273621654 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: x86 is worse about it than others.
< 1273621655 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also true that different things are faster on different architectures, of course.
< 1273621661 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apple want fastest available, and Intel finally caught up to PPC in their eyes, I guess (while being cheap enough)
< 1273621665 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A BF processor would not be very fast.
< 1273621667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well sure
< 1273621686 0 :augur!~augur@c-68-54-80-152.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273621708 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its instructions are small, though.  It's difficult to beat three bits.
< 1273621723 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless that's patted to 32 bits or something.
< 1273621737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, 3 bits? where?
< 1273621738 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Why would it?
< 1273621749 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not like Brainfuck is a von neumann architecture.
< 1273621751 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Brainfuck.
< 1273621752 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Brainfuck.
< 1273621756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1273621762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought you meant x86 still
< 1273621764 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y'know, base 7? ;)
< 1273621784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well sure, but I was thinking about x86 still
< 1273621785 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :base7? does anybody use that (besides ETA)?
< 1273621792 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, ETA?
< 1273621794 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(esolang, not chip)
< 1273621795 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Brainfuck does.
< 1273621807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, not for numbers
< 1273621822 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its code space is base 7, and it's not von Neumann.
< 1273621829 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, no.
< 1273621832 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not normally.
< 1273621845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, also sure, VHDL can use anything crazy
< 1273621846 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be *perfectly* feasible to have a base 7 Brainfuck.
< 1273621852 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for which we kill you)
< 1273621856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 bits gray code? sure why not
< 1273621860 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brainfuck is base 7?
< 1273621868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, only the instructions
< 1273621875 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brainfuck's instructions are base 7?
< 1273621876 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: base 8, surely?
< 1273621889 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: 8 instructions. 0-7.
< 1273621895 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is base 8.
< 1273621896 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that's base 8.
< 1273621897 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm.
< 1273621898 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Base 8.
< 1273621899 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1273621939 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, calling it base 7 might be slightly better, as then every base can be written as a single digit in itself.
< 1273621952 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now not everything is base 10 any more!
< 1273621956 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think there are possibly several brainfuck derivatives on the wiki based on treating bf as base 8.
< 1273621988 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We can speak of base 1, base 7, base 9, base F, base /...
< 1273622031 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bitchanger has 4 instructions, so you can pack 4 per byte
< 1273622076 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you can plainly see, that doesn't work very well beyond the standardized digits (9, F or Z dependent on how geeky you are...)
< 1273622081 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ETA explicitly uses base7 for its numbers
< 1273622127 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except it maps them to the same letters as instructions (htaoins) and avoids "e", which is used as the number terminator
< 1273622129 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, how's this for a BF instruction set...
< 1273622134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, base -1
< 1273622150 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also base 0 and base (2pi)/3
< 1273622161 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait base pi is nice
< 1273622167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because then pi is 1
< 1273622168 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ - flip the current bit and move right.  & - move left and if the current bit is 1, jump to the beginning of the program.
< 1273622170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easy to rememebr
< 1273622172 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darn, that doesn't really work.
< 1273622174 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pi is 10, you mean.
< 1273622178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember*
< 1273622181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, oh duh
< 1273622182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true
< 1273622185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sleepy
< 1273622193 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately, 4 is an infinite nonrepeating decimal!
< 1273622215 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww, Wolfram Alpha doesn't do base pi.
< 1273622236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, indeed
< 1273622423 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does a fractional base work
< 1273622447 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is surprised no one here likes ETA
< 1273622532 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1273622593 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Ultimate_bf_instruction_minimalization!
< 1273622597 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: clearly it's too easy to read, with all those common letters
< 1273622685 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: you use digits from 0 up to ceiling(base-1)
< 1273622755 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay how would I express 3 in base 2.5?
< 1273622781 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1273622782 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um
< 1273622841 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10.  then whatever 0.5 becomes...
< 1273622907 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there may be ambiguities, making the most significant digits as high as possible (greedy) is one consistent way
< 1273622945 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_ratio_base
< 1273623050 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: dinner
< 1273623065 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION didn't know that terminated for integers
< 1273623083 0 :oklopol!~oklopol@a91-153-122-35.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273623095 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokoko
< 1273623096 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokoko
< 1273623099 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokoko
< 1273623102 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oko
< 1273623126 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my summer job i will be trying to break a world record knuth once held
< 1273623205 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooo
< 1273623210 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(h)
< 1273623214 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o oko o
< 1273623236 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll be aiming for 12, his was 96
< 1273623296 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: afaict that "standard form" is the same as greedy
< 1273623315 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(all the substitutions increase the most significant digit)
< 1273623352 0 :uorygl!~Warrigal@rrcs-70-63-156-144.midsouth.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273623355 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :topic?
< 1273623356 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night
< 1273623361 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of conversation not channel
< 1273623366 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_ratio_base
< 1273623406 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surprisingly integers have finite forms
< 1273623541 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay cool stuff
< 1273623545 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: oh, 1.0000... and 0.1010101... are both the same number, so standard form is ambiguous
< 1273623557 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first one being the greedy one
< 1273623795 0 :augur!~augur@c-68-54-80-152.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273623851 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Must... rest... hands...
< 1273624031 0 :cheater2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1273624281 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1273624571 0 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273624583 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh
< 1273624633 0 :augur!~augur@c-68-54-80-152.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273624641 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can BFS be implemented using recursive function instead of queue?
< 1273624684 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay 3 in base 2.5 is approximately 10.10111000011012
< 1273624805 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273624843 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think this is quite interesting question
< 1273624923 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1273625048 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1273625720 0 :cheater2!~cheater@ip-80-226-232-181.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273625726 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could encrypt a text by converting it to base 1.x where x is the key.. the result would still be 0's and 1's, so could be easily saved as binary
< 1273626460 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273626779 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate une langue Ă©trangĂ¨re aussi
< 1273626781 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a foreign language
< 1273626807 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I can use as a foreign language"?
< 1273626816 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate Je peux utiliser une langue Ă©trangĂ¨re aussi
< 1273626819 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can use a foreign language also
< 1273626824 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha.
< 1273628290 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273628451 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1273628471 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ninjatoiminta.
< 1273628592 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Ninjatoiminta"?
< 1273628594 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... ?
< 1273628643 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Esperanto considered a foreign language?
< 1273628785 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not a domestic language, so yes.
< 1273628821 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's several domestic languages considered "foreign".
< 1273628831 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, American Sign Language is considered foreign in the US.
< 1273628846 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is?
< 1273628850 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1273628850 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How foreign.
< 1273628891 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In spite of it being used by pretty much every deaf person in the US.
< 1273629256 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks like one could say that in Finnish, ĂĽ = y.
< 1273629266 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273629277 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since Ă¤ is to a as Ă¶ is to o as y is to u.
< 1273629354 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, Finnish is just Japanese stuck through a bizarre cipher. :P
< 1273629453 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION learns the difference between /Ă¸/ and /y/.
< 1273629481 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/Ă¸/ is to /e/ as /y/ is to /i/: the former of each pair is the rounded version of the latter.
< 1273629573 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And all of Finnish's consonants are easy for an English speaker, except, of course, for /r/.
< 1273629579 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupid trills.
< 1273631814 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273632914 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273634135 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, today's Freefall has a .. different .. drawing style
< 1273634331 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed.
< 1273634766 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pulverised Coal Injection System???
< 1273635896 0 :augur!~augur@c-68-54-80-152.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273636703 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273636949 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1273640614 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273640646 0 :augur!~augur@c-68-54-80-152.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273642184 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Question from my final exam [which I took, I'm not cheating]:
< 1273642203 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The function of a compile or interpreter is to translate the specified source code to machine code."
< 1273642214 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I put False, and the correct answer is supposedly True
< 1273642446 0 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273642672 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ultimately the machine always runs machine code, so arguably that's true.
< 1273642724 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think something is broken with my expectations of what's easy to read and what's hard to read.
< 1273642744 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ja.wikipedia.org is easy reading for me.
< 1273642752 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would *not* have expected that. At all.
< 1273643026 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-L: Alternative argument: interpret the question as "the function of a compiler or [the function of an] interpreter is to ..."
< 1273643060 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh
< 1273643070 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In which case, the answer is "compiler" :P
< 1273643130 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But compilers don't have to compile to machine code
< 1273643170 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, you can't expect them to care about fine distinctions like that.
< 1273643311 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also only says "a compiler", not "all compilers"
< 1273643362 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY THE HELL IS WIKIPEDIA EASY READING IN A FOREIGN LANGUAGE
< 1273643539 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure you didn't choose simple Japanese?
< 1273643587 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Absolutely positive.
< 1273643650 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get the strong feeling I'm just getting decent at grokking Japanese's word construction or *something*.
< 1273643663 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Japanese is *quite* a synthetic language)
< 1273643820 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, there does not exist a Simple Japanese Wikipedia.
< 1273643856 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273643989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, why are you reading in simple english then?
< 1273643998 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I am not.
< 1273644003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh?
< 1273644008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well what are you doing then
< 1273644025 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reading ja.wikipedia.org
< 1273644038 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1273644043 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I miread it
< 1273644046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not fully awake
< 1273644052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet
< 1273644069 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate toiminta
< 1273644071 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :action
< 1273644080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what language is it?
< 1273644101 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finnish i presume
< 1273644111 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto fi en toiminta
< 1273644113 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :action
< 1273644167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, also sometimes sv.wikipedia.org at least is a lot simpler written than the same en article
< 1273644173 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it is often a stub
< 1273644182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto en sv action
< 1273644184 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :&#229;tgĂ¤rder
< 1273644186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1273644191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-L, fail at that script
< 1273644198 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Japanese's Wikipedia is *absurdly* well-populated.
< 1273644206 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-L, should be ĂĄtgĂ¤rder
< 1273644218 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to handle the html escape codes I think
< 1273644236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, more than en?
< 1273644237 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E8%A8%80%E8%AA%9E Does this look like a stub to you?
< 1273644255 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :About as well as en from what I've seen so far.
< 1273644256 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1273644293 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true and not all sv articles are stubs
< 1273644297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a lot more than on en
< 1273644306 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I
< 1273644309 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'ve yet to see a stub...
< 1273644314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah...
< 1273644319 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl university
< 1273644324 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :japanese quality, clearly
< 1273644339 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly.
< 1273644506 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1273644768 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Experimental evidence shows that the third question I got wrong, so did the professor. Unfortunately, I'm still wrong
< 1273644775 0 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273644823 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-49-8.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273644907 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1273644907 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu
< 1273644951 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273644955 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, she was right
< 1273644991 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made a typo in ConnectBot that I didn't see due to the font size
< 1273645241 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-198.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273645333 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273645785 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273646241 0 :meta41!~meta41@72-160-203-101.dyn.centurytel.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273646451 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273646460 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273646481 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1273647379 0 :Adrian^L_!adrian@phalse.2600.COM JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273647390 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273647403 0 :meta41!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1273647525 0 :Adrian^L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1273647731 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1273647885 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273648100 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273648607 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6.13 hours a week of non-work Internet use is considered an addiction by some people?
< 1273648608 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF
< 1273648759 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no kidding
< 1273648781 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be addicted to the Internet, someone must show withdrawal symptoms
< 1273648796 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or otherwise be unable to help themselves
< 1273648807 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is probably mildly addicted
< 1273648811 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.upiasia.com/Society_Culture/2009/05/19/child_internet_addicts_given_shock_therapy/6567/
< 1273648888 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^reading assignment for psychology class
< 1273648978 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::@ shock therapy
< 1273649100 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ECT isn't really a bad thing.. but this isn't that
< 1273649844 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273650263 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Bye
< 1273650620 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1273650692 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
< 1273651199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1273651200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273651535 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Less Wrong just helped me with my homework
< 1273652503 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1273652792 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Night all
< 1273652819 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273654166 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1273656860 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1273657214 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273657295 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: null
< 1273657467 0 :aschueler!~alec@host86-142-138-45.range86-142.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273659651 0 :hiato!~fdulu@41-135-6-185.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273661079 0 :ais523|unreg!~5cecbb40@gateway/web/freenode/x-jgubppgkcetqjujh JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273661102 0 :ais523|unreg!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I leave for a week, and now there's UTF-5 in the topic?
< 1273661107 0 :ais523|unreg!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this needs explaining!
< 1273661183 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We went from "I love Unicode in my topics. | ĺ•ăŚĺ•ŹéˇŚă«ă¦ă‹ă‚łăĽă‰ăŚĺĄ˝ăŤă ă€‚ | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D" pikhq (~pikhq@75-106-123-198.cust.wildblue.net) [08.05.2010 20:23:30]
< 1273661190 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To "I love Punycode in my topics. | xn--v8jad0f7b6z4eoa6v0hk534a7hlwhnnl8s. | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D" Gregor-L (~Gregor@75-151-73-57-Spokane.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) [09.05.2010 18:33:44]
< 1273661195 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To the current
< 1273661213 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and Punycode is not UTF-5.
< 1273661284 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The current topic is a bit on the long side.
< 1273662523 0 :lereah_!~lereah@nanpc301.in2p3.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273663924 0 :ais523|unreg!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I'm back in the UK now
< 1273664000 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :utf-5?
< 1273664010 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523|unreg: wb honey
< 1273664043 0 :ais523|unreg!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pineapple: that behaviour demands an instant /whois
< 1273664069 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm the same pineapple i was ~a month ago
< 1273664080 0 :ais523|unreg!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, yes, that makes sense
< 1273664093 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you also missed the election
< 1273664097 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(unless you postal voted)
< 1273664115 0 :ais523|unreg!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, tried to arrange a proxy vote but messed up the paperwork
< 1273664116 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :welcome to the first coalition government in a long time
< 1273664127 0 :ais523|unreg!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I've been following it
< 1273664131 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1273664143 0 :ais523|unreg!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turns out that there was nothing to do for about 6 hours a day but to watch BBC World Service
< 1273664159 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :watch?
< 1273664167 0 :ais523|unreg!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I was probably following it more closely than most people actually in the UK
< 1273664172 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought world service was a radio station
< 1273664177 0 :ais523|unreg!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, it's a TV channel, that's available at least in Canada
< 1273664182 0 :ais523|unreg!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably a radio station as well
< 1273664193 0 :ais523|unreg!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although it's called BBC World News nowadays, somehow)
< 1273664203 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did kinda tune out after about friday morning, and was catching up mostly by what the news feed on igoogle was telling me
< 1273664222 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly out of disgust
< 1273664232 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i've mellowed over teh weekend
< 1273664237 0 :ais523|unreg!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what were you disgusted /at/?
< 1273664253 0 :ais523|unreg!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :many people seem annoyed at the result, but it all seems to be for different reasons
< 1273664259 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the lib dems doing shiter than everyone was expecting
< 1273664291 0 :ais523|unreg!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, interesting
< 1273664302 0 :ais523|unreg!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you read any of the UK tabloid papers?
< 1273664310 0 :ais523|unreg!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't normally, but saw a few front pages
< 1273664324 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i generally don't
< 1273664331 0 :ais523|unreg!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after Nick Clegg turned out, to everyone's surprise, to actually exist
< 1273664341 0 :ais523|unreg!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then most of the tabloids started a really huge attempt to discredit him
< 1273664355 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know a few papers ran a "vote clegg, get brown" campaign
< 1273664388 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 1 paper ran a "in 71 areas, if you wanna keep the tories out, it's better to vote labour" campaign in the few days before
< 1273664404 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently, Bristol NW was one of those... and look who came second...
< 1273664422 0 :ais523|unreg!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the way, what's with the man in a chicken suit who keeps following David Cameron around?
< 1273664432 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1273664436 0 :ais523|unreg!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this a reference to something I'm missing?
< 1273664443 0 :ais523|unreg!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently it's a journalist
< 1273664454 0 :ais523|unreg!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who's taken to following David Cameron around, whilst wearing a chicken suit
< 1273664462 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first i've heard
< 1273664482 0 :ais523|unreg!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, I'll try to look it up
< 1273664577 0 :ais523|unreg!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently this is what it was all about: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/general-election/features/2010/04/21/david-cameron-the-daily-mirror-chicken-s-verdict-115875-22200120/
< 1273664629 0 :ais523|unreg!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the fact that there was a chicken following him around became evident before the reason
< 1273664891 0 :jix!~jix@tomakin.h-ix.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273665512 0 :oklopol!~oklopol@a91-153-122-35.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273667025 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@ix.ceid.upatras.gr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273672990 0 :ais523|unreg!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://blol.org/735-malbolge-desmistificado
< 1273673844 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"demystified"?
< 1273673857 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273674135 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1273674248 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1273674532 0 :ais523|unreg!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: possibly
< 1273674542 0 :ais523|unreg!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I linked it on the basis that Portugese was probably easier to read than Malbolge
< 1273674553 0 :ais523|unreg!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but apart from being obviously ontopic, I don't know what it says either
< 1273675006 0 :Rugxulo!~rugxulo@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273675012 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Sgeo_> Is Esperanto considered a foreign language?
< 1273675045 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, invented by a Polish doctor ... although it's a conlang (preferably considered "auxiliary", aka always a second language)
< 1273675082 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you ppl think of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CILaZ4Zyf7w ?
< 1273675131 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or the original)
< 1273675148 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273675152 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never heard of either
< 1273675187 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay that one doesn't really work 8-bit
< 1273675229 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14L9_PUhhkA
< 1273675231 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better
< 1273675271 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most guitar riffs without high notes sound rather boring with other instruments
< 1273675360 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, i should listen before i paste, that wasn't the one whose 8-bit version worked either
< 1273675366 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XA8-Lt6eHHw
< 1273675382 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least I've heard this one's original
< 1273675439 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean?
< 1273675459 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean your selections are too obscure for me   ;-)
< 1273675474 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1273675518 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was just wondering if it sounds "random" to everyone outside the genre, i'm wondering if i too just like whatever crap they play fast with a guitar
< 1273675528 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"BOSS FIGHT!"   ;-)
< 1273675530 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1273675550 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :random? no
< 1273675559 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but shredding rocks   :-)
< 1273675564 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :often you don't really hear the main melody in that thing, that's what i mean by not working
< 1273675584 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Super Mustaine BROS"
< 1273675600 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I know what you mean
< 1273675752 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A great could've been megaman tune."
< 1273675767 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the point about low riffs, those are simply not very interesting without an electric guitar, and their point is not being interesting, but sounding "tough" or w/e, i'm fine with people hating that shit, but most of the melodies imo should be interesting to anyone who likes nontrivial music
< 1273675782 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this rant because my gf thinks faceless sucks :P)
< 1273675812 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(she listens to stuff from three days grace to classical)
< 1273675821 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nCaWsRB8JU&feature=related
< 1273675834 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohh
< 1273675836 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :megadeth
< 1273675841 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i read that as megaman
< 1273675842 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1273675862 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was megaman ... although that was in ref to an Iron Maiden song (original I mentioned was Hangar 18)
< 1273675865 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's what "at least I've heard this one's original" meant
< 1273675877 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay
< 1273675891 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I'm not familiar with Faceless
< 1273675944 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, I can't hear the main vocal melody there, oh well
< 1273675953 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tried to learn to listen to deathcore, but currently i think most of it is bullshit, but faceless is in that genre and it's my favorite band atm
< 1273675963 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my conclusion is genres suck
< 1273676005 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no vocal melody
< 1273676028 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i liked the megadeth thingie, thunderstruck i find a bit boring
< 1273676044 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ac-wpfJWaEI&feature=related
< 1273676054 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, Megadeth was better
< 1273676058 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and too happy
< 1273676059 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better guitar leads
< 1273676092 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, I hear no vocal lines in this one either
< 1273676106 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1273676131 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i rarely like music that relies on vocal lines
< 1273676207 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Satriani? Vai?
< 1273676212 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i don't dislike singing, it's just music where singing is the main instrument usually have no other content, and humans are a rather boring instrument
< 1273676275 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know very few bands by name, but i doubt i like either of those
< 1273676282 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Van Halen always had vocals (99% of the time), didn't stop EVH from rocking out
< 1273676314 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, "Cowboys From Hell Ukulele"  ->   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuybeFoHj_g&feature=related
< 1273676398 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most rock has trivial riffs, solos that are too complicated for my brain (little structure), and the rest is singing, something trivial in the verse, something nice and repetitive in the chorus
< 1273676410 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dislike all this :P
< 1273676417 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least on paper
< 1273676490 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay random song by satriani was okay
< 1273676511 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273676581 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, Satriani is 99.99999% instrumental
< 1273676599 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very very technical but melodic too
< 1273676858 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay i think satriani has too little repetition for my taste
< 1273676991 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273676997 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :party, Mathnerd314!
< 1273677028 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i gotta go buy... don't know what yet ->
< 1273677475 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1273677681 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: underflow
< 1273677701 0 :hiato!~fdulu@41-135-6-185.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273677885 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1273678071 0 :Gregor-L!~Gregor@75-151-73-57-Spokane.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273678293 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
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< 1273678708 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
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< 1273679573 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273679922 0 :bsmntbombdood_!~gavin@174-16-80-26.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273679959 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1273680123 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woot, new DOSBox 0.74, finally!
< 1273680159 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to the old DOSBox 0.74.
< 1273680221 0 :bsmntbombdood__!~gavin@97-118-219-166.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273680240 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1273680307 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P
< 1273680320 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1273680435 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Spoken with a snarkiness that makes me proud :P
< 1273680752 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION too lazy to look up and copy/paste the dumb "o/" symbol as comeback
< 1273680792 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ă¸h?
< 1273680847 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dřsbřx rřx!
< 1273681572 0 :lereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1273681748 0 :bsmntbombdood__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :bsmntbombdood
< 1273682380 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273682509 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1273682555 0 :hiato!~fdulu@41-135-6-154.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273682708 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: b0rked
< 1273682848 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273682854 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273683147 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1273683572 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273683724 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273684180 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273684888 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Guest43394
< 1273684964 0 :Guest43394!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :hiato
< 1273685972 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273687444 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
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< 1273688164 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1273688517 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@188.4.66.94.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273689232 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273689262 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273689952 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273690384 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1273690951 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273690973 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1273691660 0 :ais523|unreg!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Page closed
< 1273692088 0 :impomatic!~chatzilla@87.115.109.119 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273692177 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night
< 1273692542 0 :Ratfink!~clay@nc-67-76-227-5.sta.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273693514 0 :Ratfink!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 0.3.0
< 1273693780 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-140-214.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273694045 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a Vintage Computer Festival at the U.K.'s National Museum of Computing if anyone's interested? 19-20 June.
< 1273695326 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1273696016 0 :uorygl!~Warrigal@rrcs-70-63-156-144.midsouth.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273697191 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~chatzilla@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273697396 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the algorithm for beta-reduction?
< 1273697407 0 :libaneses!~nerd@99.109.176.138 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273697529 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((\v->e) x) = e[v := x]
< 1273697545 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is to say, in e you replace all instances of "v" with "x".
< 1273697607 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, more broadly: it's just function application.
< 1273697614 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True.
< 1273697647 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But one has to avoid substituting when the variable is captured by a nested lambda
< 1273697683 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1273697711 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, you replace all free instances of "v". ;)
< 1273697726 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there an easy way to distinguish?
< 1273697937 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Free variables? Uh, yeah. If "v" is an argument to a nested lambda, it's not free in that portion of the parse tree. So, move on.
< 1273698094 0 :libaneses!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1273698574 0 :soupdragon!~quantum@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273698599 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Message to alise from the roughly 4 days in the past:
< 1273698620 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ď€/âš8 = 1 + 1/3 - 1/5 - 1/7 + 1/9 + 1/11 - ...
< 1273698621 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ď€^2/8 = 1 + 1/3^2 + 1/5^2 + 1/7^2 + 1/9^2 + 1/11^2 + ...
< 1273698639 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :End
< 1273698646 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks wrong
< 1273698668 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought the whole 1 + 1/3 - 1/5 - 1/7 + 1/9 + 1/11... was pi/4
< 1273698682 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pi/4? hm
< 1273698685 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hang on
< 1273698700 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might be pi/4 if you switch the signs
< 1273698711 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're right
< 1273698713 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and - 1/3 + 1/5 etc
< 1273698721 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes I read a proof of that one the other day
< 1273698732 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if this pi/sqrt(8) one can be derived similarly
< 1273698755 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i kinda wanna find out what your version tends to
< 1273698766 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in what sense?
< 1273698793 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you plot it on a graph, after every addition/subtraction
< 1273698804 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get a wiggly line that tends to pi/4
< 1273698819 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :??
< 1273698857 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok... time for you to eat a dictionary: as x increases, 1/x _tends_ to 0
< 1273698879 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or... maybe i'm using the wrong word
< 1273698889 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pi/4 = 1 - 1/3 + 1/5 - 1/7 + 1/9 - ...
< 1273698897 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyway, apply that context to the rest of what i've just said
< 1273698904 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it doesn't make sense in context
< 1273698928 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x = 1 + 1/3 - 1/5 - 1/7 + 1/9 + 1/11 - ...; find x
< 1273698928 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the series I posted is for pi/sqrt(8)
< 1273698937 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure it is?
< 1273698939 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1273698950 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I copy/pasted it directly from the internet
< 1273698959 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell 1 + 1/3 - 1/5 - 1/7 + 1/9 + 1/11
< 1273698964 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!hs 1 + 1/3 - 1/5 - 1/7 + 1/9 + 1/11
< 1273698967 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do I run haskell code?
< 1273698969 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.1924963924963925
< 1273699027 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:16:28 <pineapple> ::3.1415926535897931/(8**0.5)
< 1273699028 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:16:29 <@feh> 1.11072073454
< 1273699040 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!hs 1 + (sum . zipWith (\(sign,value) -> sign*(1/value + 1/(value+1))) (cycle [-1,1]) [3,7..1000])
< 1273699056 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh...
< 1273699061 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaah, i see
< 1273699083 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you go [+ - - +]
< 1273699097 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought you were just going [+ -]
< 1273699120 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What you said about pi/4 makes sense though -- I've seen that one just the other day
< 1273699159 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inprvd
< 1273699160 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :infact*
< 1273699186 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dvorak user?
< 1273699190 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/3059/picture29l.png
< 1273699204 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tends is the correct term
< 1273699205 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a proof of the pi/4 series
< 1273699211 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using COLEMAK
< 1273699231 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i should've gotten that right
< 1273699245 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dvorak typos of a vowel will give another vowel
< 1273699267 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, what is beautiful is the connection between the series for pi/sqrt(8) and p^2/8
< 1273699282 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's a 'coincidence' but it's still lovely
< 1273699528 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh now everyones pissed off at me because I said coincidence
< 1273699548 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'How DARE you speak this blasphemy against the platonic nature of mathematics'
< 1273699616 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :welcome to mathematics, honey
< 1273699621 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coincidences happen
< 1273699653 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at least, until you're zen enough to understand why they happen)
< 1273699653 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps there is only one consistent way for things to be, and mathematics, with its unique and beautiful structures that are pure expressions of logical necessity, is trying to tell us something about this?
< 1273699660 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :oklofod
< 1273699672 0 :oklofod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i figured if you are edible
< 1273700063 0 :libaneses!~nerd@99.109.176.138 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273700737 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273701163 0 :Rugxulo!~rugxulo@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273701168 0 :charlls!~charlls@201.226.222.130 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273701248 0 :cheater2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1273701284 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help
< 1273701284 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help <command>.
< 1273701291 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help userinterps
< 1273701291 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :userinterps: Users can add interpreters written in any of the languages in !help languages. See !help addinterp, delinterp, show | !userinterps. List interpreters added with !addinterp.
< 1273701301 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help languages
< 1273701301 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh.
< 1273701307 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help unlambda
< 1273701307 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, I have no help for unlambda!
< 1273701316 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help
< 1273701321 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah
< 1273701322 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
< 1273701325 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help lazyk
< 1273701325 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, I have no help for lazyk!
< 1273701333 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help linguine
< 1273701334 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, I have no help for linguine!
< 1273701354 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls
< 1273701358 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ cube2.base64 \ cube2.jpg \ hack_gregor \ hello.txt \ help.txt \ huh \ netcat-0.7.1 \ netcat-0.7.1.tar.gz \ out.txt \ paste \ poetry.txt \ quotes \ share \ test.sh \ tmpdir.3268 \ wunderbar_emporium
< 1273701365 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls /bin
< 1273701366 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash \ bunzip2 \ bzcat \ bzcmp \ bzdiff \ bzegrep \ bzexe \ bzfgrep \ bzgrep \ bzip2 \ bzip2recover \ bzless \ bzmore \ cat \ chgrp \ chmod \ chown \ cp \ cpio \ dash \ date \ dd \ df \ dir \ dmesg \ dnsdomainname \ domainname \ echo \ ed \ egrep \ false \ fgrep \ grep \ gunzip \ gzexe \ gzip \ hostname \ ip \ kill \ less
< 1273701373 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls /usr/bin
< 1273701374 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2to3-2.6 \ X11 \ [ \ a2p \ addpart \ addr2line \ apropos \ apt-cache \ apt-cdrom \ apt-config \ apt-extracttemplates \ apt-ftparchive \ apt-get \ apt-key \ apt-mark \ apt-sortpkgs \ aptitude \ aptitude-create-state-bundle \ aptitude-curses \ aptitude-run-state-bundle \ ar \ arch \ as \ awk \ axi-cache \ base64 \ basename \ bashbug
< 1273701387 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls /usr/bin/u*
< 1273701388 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1273701416 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls /usr/bin | xargs
< 1273701417 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1273701423 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders how to interpret this (yes, I wrote it, yes I suck, and yes it is painfully obtuse):       ```s.si``v```s.e.n``v```s.p.p``v```s.h.a``v```s.t. ``v```s.s.p.iiiiii
< 1273701423 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION 
< 1273701431 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh
< 1273701461 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION takes Opera out back for a "talk"
< 1273701496 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!unlambda ```s.si``v```s.e.n``v```s.p.p``v```s.h.a``v```s.t. ``v```s.s.p.iiiii
< 1273701497 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./interps/unlambda/unlambda.bin: file /tmp/input.3506: parse error
< 1273701530 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!unlambda ```s.h.ii
< 1273701531 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1273701538 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that worked at least
< 1273701551 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!unlambda ```s.y.oi
< 1273701552 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yo
< 1273701921 0 :benuphoenix!~matt@ool-182e6881.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273701942 0 :cheater2!~cheater@ip-80-226-234-28.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273701952 0 :tombom_!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273702076 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which looks better? main(){for(;;);} or :(){:|:&};: ?
< 1273702111 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1273702111 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main(){for(;;);}
< 1273702116 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you're trying to obfuscate
< 1273702129 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1273702164 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273702211 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION realizes that an infinite loop in c and a fork bomb in sh are not 
< 1273702219 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the same
< 1273702311 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main(){for(;;)fork();}
< 1273702338 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't believe i was stupid enough to load irssi in a dos command prompt. On second thought, I can believe it.
< 1273702340 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if AnMaster ever heard of BashForth ...
< 1273702349 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guys, you know that HackEgo is incredibly primitive?
< 1273702358 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls
< 1273702359 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ cube2.base64 \ cube2.jpg \ hack_gregor \ hello.txt \ help.txt \ huh \ netcat-0.7.1 \ netcat-0.7.1.tar.gz \ out.txt \ paste \ poetry.txt \ quotes \ share \ test.sh \ tmpdir.3721 \ wunderbar_emporium
< 1273702370 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls | grep tmpdir
< 1273702371 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1273702376 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, HackEgo is very, very simple.
< 1273702378 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also:
< 1273702384 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ls | grep tmpdir
< 1273702386 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tmpdir.3799
< 1273702400 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ls tmpdir*
< 1273702401 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1273702424 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run sh -c 'ls tmpdir*'
< 1273702426 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1273702429 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ls -d tmpdir*
< 1273702430 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm.
< 1273702431 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tmpdir.3965
< 1273702437 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ls | xargs
< 1273702438 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin cube2.base64 cube2.jpg hack_gregor hello.txt help.txt huh netcat-0.7.1 netcat-0.7.1.tar.gz out.txt paste poetry.txt quotes share test.sh tmpdir.4014 wunderbar_emporium
< 1273702470 0 :Djidane!~quassel@dispo-82-250-56-133.adsl.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273702490 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1273702513 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: break time
< 1273702669 0 :Djidane!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273703655 0 :cheater2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273703768 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: null
< 1273704133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Rugxulo wonders if AnMaster ever heard of BashForth ... <-- yes
< 1273704143 0 :cheater2!~cheater@ip-80-226-18-97.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273704258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf_txtgen 23
< 1273704268 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :33 ++++++++++[>+++++>+>><<<<-]>.+.>. [38]
< 1273704273 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... too long
< 1273704275 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf_txtgen 23
< 1273704280 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :33 ++++++++++[>+++++>+>><<<<-]>.+.>. [42]
< 1273704286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf_txtgen 23
< 1273704289 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :33 ++++++++++[>+++++>+>><<<<-]>.+.>. [43]
< 1273704339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, can be reduced to:  ++++++++++[>+++++<-]>.+. in my case... hm still too long
< 1273704491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah nvm
< 1273704871 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf_txtgen abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz
< 1273704873 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :112 +++++++++++[>+>+++++++++>+++++++++><<<<-]>>--.+.+.+.>++.+.+.<++++.+.+.+.>+++++.<++.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.<-. [932]
< 1273704908 0 :tombom_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1273704970 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: underflow
< 1273705013 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273705162 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1273705409 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does better if you wait a bit.
< 1273705428 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get ++++++++++[>++++++++++>+<<-]>---.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.>. for abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz + newline.
< 1273705476 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually it seems to converge to 85 characters in just ~100 generations here.
< 1273705485 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though that's with "-t 2".
< 1273705530 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With -t 4 (the default) that takes somewhere around 4000 generations before it's something reasonable.
< 1273705535 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1273705727 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Tis a genetic algorithm.
< 1273705935 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Genetically modified algorithm. Unnatural and unhealthy! Get the genes out of our tomatoes!
< 1273706132 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to write a genetic algorithm
< 1273706140 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what should I implement
< 1273706229 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A monstrosity.
< 1273706772 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273707185 0 :cheater2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273707559 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273707668 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please
< 1273707671 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what should I evolve
< 1273707733 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UHF-band antennas? :-)
< 1273707905 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, why that?
< 1273707915 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest LF band
< 1273707960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<soupdragon> what should I evolve <-- alternative answer: a pokemon
< 1273708336 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool, Portal is free until May 24th
< 1273708353 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that mean/
< 1273708354 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1273708363 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you get it now, will it evaporate on 24th?
< 1273708440 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can get it for free, unless it is past May 24th, when you will have to pay money again
< 1273708665 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :predicting the future is easy
< 1273708673 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: evolve the pikachu
< 1273708703 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I mean with genetic programming
< 1273708839 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1273708882 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: try the Google AI challenge
< 1273708907 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the tron game)
< 1273708930 0 :charlls!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Saliendo
< 1273709574 0 :libaneses!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273710035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Mathnerd314> you can get it for free, unless it is past May 24th, when you will have to pay money again <-- huh?
< 1273710037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where?
< 1273710052 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, steam
< 1273710054 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://store.steampowered.com/freeportal/
< 1273710055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn
< 1273710058 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ... the servers are overloaded so try anothre day
< 1273710068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon, I would play it in wine
< 1273710071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that is lost
< 1273710418 0 :oklofod!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1273710428 0 :aschueler!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1273711298 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273712533 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-243-203-60.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273712932 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1273714163 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273714430 0 :cheater2!~cheater@ip-80-226-18-97.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273719360 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: soupdragon
< 1273720001 0 :Mathnerd314_!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273720088 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1273720105 0 :Mathnerd314_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Mathnerd314
< 1273720150 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273720267 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> So, you replace all free instances of "v". ;)
< 1273720274 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, no that is not sufficient.
< 1273720326 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((\v -> (\t -> v)) t)
< 1273720356 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you must rename some of the bound instances of variables mentioned in x
< 1273720369 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, blah, alpha reduction necessary.
< 1273720370 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for ((\v->e) x) = e[v := x]
< 1273720373 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :)
< 1273720397 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Some more work required"
< 1273720546 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've never implemented lambda calculus myself, but i'd guess alpha reduction is a more awkward part than beta.
< 1273720579 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd imagine it'd be less awkward (and less efficient) to just transform it into SK.
< 1273720592 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(without it no one would bother with all that deBruin index stuff and things, would they)
< 1273720681 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah abstraction elimination isn't so bad.  i have nearly implemented that.  (improved someone else's eliminator for "optimizing" unlambda)
< 1273721346 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1273722127 0 :augur!~augur@c-98-218-226-149.hsd1.dc.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273722193 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I recall you explained Norway's voting system to me a while ago. Can you run it by me again?
< 1273722312 0 :Gregor-L!~Gregor@75-151-73-57-Spokane.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273722345 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each county is a voting district, electing a number of representatives (dependent on population and area)
< 1273722355 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by proportional representation
< 1273722363 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing like STV?
< 1273722420 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we just choose one party list.  it has varied whether we can do amendments of candidate positions.
< 1273722479 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, thanks
< 1273722480 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in addition to the fixed number of direct local representatives, there is 1 candidate per county chosen based on national total votes, to smooth out things
< 1273722534 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so generally representation ends up pretty proportional to national representation, _provided_ the party gets at least 4% of total votes.
< 1273722548 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many seats?
< 1273722576 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however if it dips below 4%, it gets only the direct votes, which can be catastrophal like it was for Venstre last year
< 1273722588 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :169 i think, let me check
< 1273722604 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1273722613 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting
< 1273722617 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a place where I can read up on it?
< 1273722642 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.no/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=14&ved=0CFsQFjAN&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FParliament_of_Norway&rct=j&q=stortinget&ei=vGjrS9TLIpef-gb0qJnABA&usg=AFQjCNG3Vy-ocOwR89eLiisHtkKB9XOUbQ  GOT FUCKING DAMN GOOGLE
< 1273722650 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, what's your opinion on how well it works, and does it give voters much leeway in selecting individual candidates they like?
< 1273722655 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't want your fucking redirection
< 1273722689 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost no leeway, i don't think the candidate modifications are even used for the national elections anymore
< 1273722707 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, so that's a downside
< 1273722709 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i guess that link works even if it is annoying)
< 1273722712 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but at the same time, one that's easily fixe
< 1273722714 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*fixed
< 1273722723 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Koira!
< 1273722732 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well they _undid_ it, so obviously they didn't like it
< 1273722742 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or it had almost no effect anyway
< 1273722798 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_Norway
< 1273723035 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for local elections there is a lot more leeway though, apparently you can even add candidates from other parties http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_municipal_elections#Ballots
< 1273723041 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming that's up to date
< 1273723639 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION adds another seven Finnish words to his flash card deck.
< 1273723706 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :flash cards are harmful!  steve jobs says so.
< 1273723772 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evidently he's had a change of heart, as these flash cards are on my iPod Touch.
< 1273723797 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read Apple's Flash spiel; it does have some points.
< 1273723813 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just an old app they haven't got around to deleting yet.  expect it to disappear soon.
< 1273723825 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww.
< 1273723856 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hasn't bothered to read Apple's Flash spiel, but cannot avoid noticing all the reddit headlines...
< 1273723888 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, technically i _can_, i suppose
< 1273723889 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Flash is proprietary, they say.
< 1273723902 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :While running a proprietary platform.
< 1273723908 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The irony is nearly corporeal.
< 1273723924 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed.
< 1273723936 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the gist i got of it, yes
< 1273723944 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They also said that there should be only one platform, because that way, developers don't need to restrict themselves to the set of common features.
< 1273723961 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1273723965 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That part of it I kind of disagreed with.  :)
< 1273723991 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is some very esoteric logic right there
< 1273724214 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, if developers would be FORCED to use Flash if Flash was supported, I could understand
< 1273724217 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION finally convinces the flash card app that he kinda knows those new seven words now.
< 1273724245 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That took about ten minutes.  Not really too shabby.
< 1273724305 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I can kinda sorta read the first four sentences of the Finnish Wikipedia article about koirat.
< 1273724423 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION recognizes "ruokana" as being the essive case and correctly guesses the meaning of "ruoka" by the illustration.
< 1273724555 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :be careful.  soon you will start getting this inexplicable urge to drink heavily in hot, steamy places.  and carry a knife.
< 1273724571 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do Finns all carry knives?
< 1273724605 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i vaguely think oklopol said something about them being banned in cities
< 1273724607 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would never drink heavily in hot, steamy places.  Drinking heavily in hot, dry places, on the other hand, is starting to sound like a good idea.
< 1273724610 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm...
< 1273724618 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Any reason for learning Finnish?
< 1273724636 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that doesn't matter, because you will also get an urge to move to a desolate hut in the middle of a forest.
< 1273724642 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and yes, I will accept "just because" as an answer)
< 1273724650 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I like Scandinavia, and I also want to learn a non-Indo-European language.
< 1273724654 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, Finnish.
< 1273724661 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finnish is Indo-European.
< 1273724670 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm.
< 1273724671 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats pikhq -----###
< 1273724681 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IS NOT
< 1273724682 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You made me check.
< 1273724686 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's Uralic, isn't it?
< 1273724690 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup.
< 1273724699 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No wonder it's so weird.
< 1273724715 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Along with Hungarian!
< 1273724724 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Igen!
< 1273724752 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only Indo-European influences, then, are due to Sprachbund. Fun.
< 1273724885 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think after my vocabulary catches up to the first paragraph of this Wikipedia article, I'll have to find a Finn who can explain all these suffixes.
< 1273724931 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shall continue preferring Japanese. Mmm, language isolates...
< 1273724957 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We should merge language isolates with each other!
< 1273724958 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well. Nearly. It *is* related to those pesky Ryukuan languages.)
< 1273724967 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ryukyuan. XD)
< 1273725018 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I must sleep.
< 1273725042 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pauses to allow someone to interject about the unnecessity of sleep.
< 1273725065 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :COFFEE
< 1273725069 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good night, everyone.
< 1273725731 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1273726485 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1273728269 0 :augur!~augur@c-68-54-80-152.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273728647 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1273729370 0 :adu!~ajr@pool-173-66-16-26.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273729393 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1273729562 0 :Oranjer1!~HP_Admini@adsl-243-203-60.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273729604 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services
< 1273729806 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273730691 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1273731819 0 :oklofod!~oklopol@a91-153-122-35.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273732098 0 :oklofod!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1273732131 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273732265 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273733149 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273734428 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273736436 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I am leaving. You are about to explode.
< 1273736440 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273736823 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1273737043 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1273737476 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1273737599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1273737600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273738023 0 :Gregor-L!~Gregor@67-129-37-226.dia.static.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273739708 0 :gm|lap!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273742914 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1273744899 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273746158 0 :oklofod!~oklopol@a91-153-122-35.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273746195 0 :oklofod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's "peux"
< 1273746233 0 :P4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofod: Definition: Put a 501 on, you'll know what I mean. Look good you do ? Example: C'mon Gofa, show me a move :@ Tu peux... pas SUPA MOULANT
< 1273746265 0 :oklofod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you a markov chain bot?
< 1273746331 0 :P4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, i'm just passing my supybot's urbandict reply
< 1273746332 0 :oklofod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shit this is some sort of jesus day
< 1273746340 0 :oklofod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah figured
< 1273746345 0 :P4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cute (:
< 1273746346 0 :oklofod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you translate that to english?
< 1273746373 0 :P4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you asked about polish, i'd say 'yeh', but in case of english - i'm sorry :P
< 1273746397 0 :oklofod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wanna shoppe, but jesus closed all the shoppes.
< 1273746518 0 :oklofod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so "can"
< 1273746533 0 :oklofod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then my guess is "i can use some other weird language"
< 1273746819 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273747562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oklofod> are you a markov chain bot? <-- hm I was wondering that too :D
< 1273747627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P4, what about E...o?
< 1273747632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(see topic for what that is)
< 1273747651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(second section to be precise)
< 1273747859 0 :P4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't :P my mom wanted to start learning E...o, but i suppose she's too old for that :P
< 1273748680 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's with people learning E...o?
< 1273748697 0 :P4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are... different  :)
< 1273748702 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i'm working on a semi-actual programming language for R...ZZle
< 1273748805 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. for "noose": @f2\n\tgf;\n\t?cb f2; ?\n\t?cr gl ? ?cb gr ? ;\n\tgf;\n@\n\n@f1-\n\tf2;\n\t?cr gl; ?\nf1;@\n\nf1;
< 1273748830 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the puzzle is: "BBBBBBBrBBBBBBB<\n......rbr.......\n.....rb.br......\n....rb...br.....\n...rb.....b.....\n...b......b.....\n...b......b.....\n...b......b.....\n...b......b.....\n...rb.....b.....\n....rb...br.....\n.....rBBBr......\n"
< 1273748840 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a "b" under the robot
< 1273748848 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(capital letters contain stars)
< 1273748904 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, after adding a couple of instructions, i've worked out how it's possible to do while loops
< 1273748938 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there's 10 instructions total (turning + moving + painting are functions)
< 1273748974 0 :oklofod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait i'm confused, what did you come up with exactly?
< 1273748988 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a programming language for robozzle
< 1273749003 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@name ... @ defines a function
< 1273749012 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?cond ... ? defines an "if true" block
< 1273749014 0 :oklofod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you seriously underestimate the laziness of irc people if you assume someone is going to copypaste the level in a text editor to see what it looks like ;)
< 1273749029 0 :oklofod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and you overestimate our intelligence if you assume we wouldn't have to, i think)
< 1273749063 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :python -c 'print "BBBBBBBrBBBBBBB<\n......rbr.......\n.....rb.br......\n....rb...br.....\n...rb.....b.....\n...b......b.....\n...b......b.....\n...b......b.....\n...b......b.....\n...rb.....b.....\n....rb...br.....\n.....rBBBr......\n"'
< 1273749064 0 :oklofod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you compile into robozzle?
< 1273749077 0 :oklofod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might work
< 1273749079 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, it gets compiled into a bytecode
< 1273749106 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a stack-based thing
< 1273749124 0 :oklofod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can already program in robozzle, aren't you just taking the fun out :P
< 1273749134 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it actually helps with some of the harder puzzles
< 1273749153 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it allows for more interesting constructs
< 1273749162 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :python -c 'print "\n@l_lockup-l_lockup;@\n@l_loop = @\n@l_until_cg ~cg --; ~ @\n\n@f_swp1\n\t@f_swpc\n\t\tf_swp2;\n\t@\n\t@f_fire\n\t\tgf;gr;gr;gf;\n\t@\n@\n\n@f_swp2\n\t@f_swpc\n\t\tf_swp1;\n\t@\n\t@f_fire\n\t\tgr;gr;\n\t@\n@\n\n@f_main-\n\tgr;\n\n\tf_swp2;\n\t\n\tl_loop;=\n\t\tgf;\n\t\t?cr f_swpc; ?\n\tl_until_cg;--\n\t\n\tf_fire;\n\t\n\tl_loop;=\n\t\tgf;\n\tl_until_cg;--\n\t\n\tgr;\n\tgf;\nf_main;@\n\nf_main;\n"'
< 1273749179 0 :oklofod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it would help with harder puzzles if you compiled into robozzle
< 1273749197 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := is "duplicate top of exec stack"
< 1273749204 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and - is "pop top of exec stack"
< 1273749258 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i DID use it for igoro's "explore the world" thing, though
< 1273749263 0 :oklofod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nono "-" should be nop and " " should be pop!
< 1273749284 0 :oklofod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh can you somehow test the programs in robozzle anyway?
< 1273749302 0 :oklofod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you compile into ROBOZZLE bytecode?
< 1273749344 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, nope, this is my own custom bytecode
< 1273749372 0 :oklofod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but can you run the programs in robozzle?
< 1273749375 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope :/
< 1273749386 0 :oklofod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay
< 1273749390 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you wanted to make a hack for the JS client
< 1273749414 0 :oklofod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you could always compile to robozzle, if it weren't for the size limits
< 1273749437 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also ";" is "run function named on value stack"
< 1273749440 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that
< 1273749446 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you push a name onto the stack, not a function
< 1273749466 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you can redefine functions on the fly
< 1273749470 0 :oklofod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :call . look-up
< 1273749474 0 :oklofod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := ;
< 1273749488 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, what
< 1273749502 0 :oklofod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell notation
< 1273749519 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also what would be a good turing-complete lang to implement?
< 1273749544 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would smallfuck do?
< 1273749560 0 :oklofod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell is one of the prerequisites for the channel
< 1273749578 0 :oklofod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you could implement one of my languages?!?!?
< 1273749580 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, i've been here for several years, mostly intermittently
< 1273749587 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. ?
< 1273749596 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll need to go to bed soon, though
< 1273749608 0 :oklofod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess just toi and clue have enough stuff online to be possible
< 1273749628 0 :oklofod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm not sure they are the best ideas
< 1273749639 0 :oklofod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither is particularly easy to implement
< 1273749670 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Clue <--?
< 1273749678 0 :oklofod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or at least not nearly on the level of smallfuck) (also i don't remember what smallfuck is, but i assume it's a simplified bf)
< 1273749681 0 :oklofod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's not that one
< 1273749684 0 :oklofod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in the wiki yet
< 1273749699 0 :oklofod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :www.vjn.fi/oklopol/clue.py maybe
< 1273749706 0 :oklofod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1273749709 0 :oklofod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1273749717 0 :oklofod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :www.vjn.fi/oklopol/clue.rar
< 1273749724 0 :oklofod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay
< 1273749744 0 :oklofod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway no documentation, try toi instead unless you want to search esoteric logs for specs :P
< 1273749750 0 :oklofod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1273749765 0 :oklofod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's an example program, this dude inferred how the language works from that
< 1273749776 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmkay
< 1273749796 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the interpreter does not currently implement all of Toi, and is definitely not a reference implementation, it is also incredibly space consuming, hopefully the author will fix it tomorrow)
< 1273749802 0 :oklofod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's not true :P
< 1273749813 0 :oklofod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it currently does implement all of it, or should at least
< 1273749819 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyways, i'm going to have to go to sleep now, gnight
< 1273749833 0 :oklofod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought about fixing that, but then i thought nah
< 1273749834 0 :oklofod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night
< 1273749841 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ilua
< 1273749857 0 :oklofod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ilut
< 1273749874 0 :oklofod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qt3.14
< 1273750462 0 :hiato!~fdulu@41-135-6-154.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273751551 0 :soupdragon!~quantum@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273751560 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: 'IIRC sapir whorf is a theory for babby linguists until they figure out it's wrong.'
< 1273751654 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273751726 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273751992 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's xn--v8jad0f7b6z4eoa6v0hk534a7hlwhnnl8s ?
< 1273752671 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273753393 0 :oklofod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me ask my nondeterministic turing machine
< 1273753397 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: Probably ĺ•ăŚĺ•ŹéˇŚă«ă¦ă‹ă‚łăĽă‰ăŚĺĄ˝ăŤă ă€‚
< 1273753577 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh
< 1273753608 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not that I know russian, but I guess you mean that text is what the ASCII encodes)
< 1273753871 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273753889 0 :P4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: that is chinese, probably simplified :)
< 1273753924 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ăĽ_ăĽ
< 1273754469 0 :P4!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually that's japanese "Unicode problem like me." :)
< 1273756882 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1273757428 0 :oklofod!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1273761314 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273762589 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273763099 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273763237 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273763580 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273763614 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273763631 0 :soupdragon!~quantum@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273766764 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273766866 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oklofod> then my guess is "i can use some other weird language"
< 1273766885 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate Ă©trangĂ¨re
< 1273766900 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foreign
< 1273766903 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofruit
< 1273766913 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oeryam
< 1273766916 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so not quite
< 1273766928 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgg
< 1273766947 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a soupdragon _really_ shouldn't call other people food, you know
< 1273766952 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1273767387 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: omghaahhahaohwow
< 1273767958 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273768302 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@150.140.229.33 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273768894 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273769029 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273769126 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273769748 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1273769940 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273774185 0 :charlls!~charlls@201.226.222.130 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273774258 0 :MizardX-!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273774387 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1273774403 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MizardX
< 1273777343 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273778336 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273779608 0 :tombom_!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273779628 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1273780011 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1273780078 0 :Quadrescence!~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273780250 0 :charlesq__!~charlls@201.226.222.130 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273780359 0 :charlls!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273780534 0 :charlesq__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1273782028 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night
< 1273783147 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273783195 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273784324 0 :impomatic!~chatzilla@87.115.109.119 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273784884 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: null
< 1273785663 0 :cheater2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1273785762 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone wanna stubify the latest articles on the wiki?
< 1273785805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm?
< 1273786299 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273786301 0 :p_q!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273786322 0 :p_q!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1273787062 0 :maedhros777!~michael@c-76-118-245-128.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273787140 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, does anyone have any ideas? I'm creating an esoteric language called Polynomial in which the whole program is a polynomial, statements are in the zeroes of the function. How would I factor the polynomial in the compiler such that the statements are in the correct order?
< 1273787164 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I could factor it, I just don't know how to do it in order
< 1273787228 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the way, why does it say "I want to use an esoteric language also" in French in the topic? :)
< 1273787250 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777: I'm not sure I follow you, you want to find the roots of a polynomial in 'order'?
< 1273787251 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If roots are rational, there are tricks for finding the roots...
< 1273787294 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know how to get the roots, I'm just wondering how the compiler would distinguish between (x + 5)(x + 3) and (x + 3)(x + 5)
< 1273787297 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When factoring
< 1273787305 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See what I mean?
< 1273787314 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't.
< 1273787325 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any ideas for the language, then?
< 1273787348 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(x + 5)(x + 3) = x^2 + 8x + 15 = (x + 3)(x + 5).
< 1273787355 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know
< 1273787382 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But let's say (x + 5) reads in a value, and (x + 3) outputs a value. So which would the compiler know to do first?
< 1273787391 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777, sort them? Unless you mean the order in which they were encoded, which is then impossible, unless you muliply them by ordered primes
< 1273787405 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would you do it by ordered primes?
< 1273787429 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :encode them as root 1 = ( x - 2^instr1) ( x - 3^isntr2 ) etc
< 1273787437 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1273787456 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prime factorisation is unique
< 1273787473 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure I understand what you mean.
< 1273787475 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or have the instructions cyclically repeating and execute them in increasing order.
< 1273787479 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you know it's the one that factorises by 2 that gives you instr1
< 1273787480 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eg
< 1273787508 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(x + 5)(x + 3) -> (x+2^5)(x+3^3)=whatever
< 1273787521 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, once you have found the roots of whatever
< 1273787526 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :factorise them
< 1273787531 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273787546 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and start execution with the on that is a perfect power of 2
< 1273787551 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then 3,5,7...
< 1273787570 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, so are you saying that the encoding should be different?
< 1273787574 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like if root mod n is 0 its operation A, if its 1, its operation B, etc...
< 1273787576 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes and no
< 1273787576 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today's not the weekend
< 1273787582 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: no
< 1273787592 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just add two more steps
< 1273787594 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't understand. Can you give an example?
< 1273787615 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, (x-3) == output, (x+5)== input
< 1273787631 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So how do you propose to encode?
< 1273787641 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to encode, you take the order it was in, say, outp then inp
< 1273787653 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and assign primes, 2 and 3
< 1273787658 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1273787671 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then, you do exponentation for the root values
< 1273787694 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh...you mean (2^x - 3)(3^x + 5)?
< 1273787706 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so (x+5)(x-3)-->(x+2^5)(x-3^3)
< 1273787712 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you make the polynomial
< 1273787729 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you determine which bases to use for the exponentiation?
< 1273787734 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then, to decode, you find the roots
< 1273787741 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777: increasing primes
< 1273787748 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I get it
< 1273787752 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :starting rith 2 for the first instruction
< 1273787758 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So 2,3,5,7,11, etc ?
< 1273787762 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1273787775 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, great idea. Thanks!
< 1273787779 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;)
< 1273787789 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought my whole idea was destroyed :)
< 1273787793 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Naah
< 1273787794 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But now I can do it
< 1273787804 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just need to write a compiler now.
< 1273787821 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, my idea: Assume there are 15 different instructions and you want to do 5 and then 3. Since 3 is less than 5, add 15 to get 18. Then the polynomial is (x-5)(x-18). Alternatively one could substract 15 from 5 to get (x+10)(x-3).
< 1273787822 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone know of a good method for factoring complex/imaginary zeroes?
< 1273787842 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777: Newton-Rhapson for real
< 1273787877 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that where p/q is the root and p is a factor of the last term and q is a factor of the first?
< 1273787886 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the only one I've learned
< 1273787890 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kind of brute force, though
< 1273787941 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777: No, that's not it. But there are tricks to speed that method a lot.
< 1273787974 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I looked it up -- it uses derivatives
< 1273787987 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still guessing, but not brute force
< 1273787990 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: I see what you're saying, but it is possible that that will give anoter root, eg, say you want -1, after -2, so you get (x-2)(x-1) -> (x-2)(x-16) -> (x-2)(x-4)(x-4) ....
< 1273788026 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait, is the Newton-Rhapson method the one from which Newton's fractal is created?
< 1273788071 0 :power!~aaa_xswza@94.183.66.38 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273788092 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato: How did you get that last step? x-16 != (x-4)^2
< 1273788120 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, (x-4)(x+4), still encodes anoter instruction
< 1273788142 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I've seen, Newton's method uses an initial guess. How would you put that in a compiler?
< 1273788143 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton's_method
< 1273788144 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, x - 16 != (x - 4)(x + 4) = x^2 - 16.
< 1273788157 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: aaah, good point
< 1273788158 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, I'm already on that exact page :)
< 1273788209 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: but I'm sure that there would be ambigous factorisations of non linear roots for that notation
< 1273788239 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I just thought of something. How would I use hiato's method with complex zeroes?
< 1273788250 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can a real have a complex exponent?
< 1273788256 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777: why encode them?
< 1273788264 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Polynomial factorization in reals/complex is always unique modulo order of factors.
< 1273788265 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1273788265 0 :power!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :nice
< 1273788271 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh
< 1273788275 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Silly me :)
< 1273788293 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does newton's method work with complex numbers?
< 1273788309 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777: Not very well...
< 1273788315 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does?
< 1273788331 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: (x^2-16) -> (xÂ±4) or (x^2-1) -> (XÂ±1) ?
< 1273788338 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in your encoding
< 1273788342 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it will work with complex numbers
< 1273788345 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you trying to do?
< 1273788348 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how will you know when to subtract
< 1273788352 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least what root it converges to can jump wildly.
< 1273788378 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato: Well -4 executes before 4 (same with -1 and 1).
< 1273788380 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: Find the zeroes of a function in my compiler.
< 1273788389 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what function?
< 1273788416 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm creating an esoteric language called Polynomial. The whole program is a function.
< 1273788422 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Statements are in the zeroes.
< 1273788427 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :,rmmmmmm
< 1273788453 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: no, I'm saying, does (xÂ˛-16) give instructions Â±1 or Â±4? As you don't know whether 15 was added/subtracted to encode it before or after another arbitrary instruction
< 1273788461 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know solving quadratic equations is easy
< 1273788466 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know.
< 1273788469 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey maedhros, are the roots all on the real line/
< 1273788469 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1273788473 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or are they complex too
< 1273788479 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both
< 1273788482 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ummmmmmmmmm
< 1273788494 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is impossible to implement
< 1273788495 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously
< 1273788509 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using hiato's method it's not.
< 1273788523 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: so your way is ambigious for any partial (and thus any at all) factorisation
< 1273788599 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: Why would you think so?
< 1273788618 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the roots of a polynomial are t1,t2,..,tn then the polynomial (x-t1)(x-t2)...(x-tn) = x^n +/- (t1 + t2 + ... + tn)x^(n-1) + ... +/- (t1 t2 ... tn)
< 1273788633 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What?
< 1273788649 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :N(t1 t2 ... tn) = N(t1) N(t2) ... N(tn) hm
< 1273788656 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So?
< 1273788681 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can we put a circle around the roots of a polynomial?
< 1273788689 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: yes, but still possible if he implements it well
< 1273788694 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like if all the roots |ti| < 5
< 1273788700 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can we find a bound like 5?
< 1273788734 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: so far as I understand, that will be solved by virtue of the roots only encoding a finite set of instructions
< 1273788744 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are the roots gaussian integers?
< 1273788755 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't know
< 1273788758 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or are they wild trancendentals
< 1273788762 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep
< 1273788772 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.......which
< 1273788779 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, well there you have it
< 1273788780 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The whole language is in integers
< 1273788788 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it is integers this makes the problem much easier
< 1273788794 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep
< 1273788802 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could try things like rational roots I guess
< 1273788807 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and irreducibility testing
< 1273788808 0 :nice!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1273788812 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and finite field factorization
< 1273788827 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what half that stuff is :)
< 1273788849 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon, heh, naah, we manually encode the polynomials, so no need to check for anything
< 1273788854 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a really crude first approach you could probably just grab SWI prolog and write (x-t1)*...*(x-tn) #= input and it'll solve for t1,t2...
< 1273788864 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"manually encode" like how?
< 1273788879 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they arent' written in the form  6x^4 - 7x^3 + ..?
< 1273788884 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Increasing primes
< 1273788890 0 :dougx!~dougx@vc-41-28-119-188.umts.vodacom.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273788907 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. (x + 3)(x + 5) -> (x + 2^3)(x + 3^5)
< 1273788924 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato's idea
< 1273788949 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon, it let's you unambigiously determine the order of encoding
< 1273788951 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :............ what
< 1273788968 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is an example input to the program?
< 1273788970 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye now
< 1273788973 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273788979 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The idea was that you take some set of integers and encode them as roots of a olynomial
< 1273788982 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*p
< 1273789007 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that set being the instructions, of whatever meaning
< 1273789023 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the fuck why did he leave
< 1273789033 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, lol
< 1273789039 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foreigners
< 1273789046 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man that guy has no idea what he is doing
< 1273789049 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope
< 1273789059 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also have no idea what he is doing
< 1273789063 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1273789063 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is frustrating
< 1273789070 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a vague one
< 1273789072 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seemed to describe about 20 different situations
< 1273789077 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1273789114 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, I think I know what he was trying, and I think I gave him a solution thatworks, but I doubt he can use it
< 1273789150 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:54 < maedhros777> I just need to write a compiler now.
< 1273789158 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that he will
< 1273789164 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for polynomials
< 1273789266 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if it would be possible to get Dwarf Fortress to work on Android
< 1273789321 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks playing dwarf fortress is harder than being NASA mission control
< 1273789353 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would name his children Sgeo if he found a way
< 1273789821 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sends a message to his professor saying that, while my script wasn't perfect, it's far better than the professor's answer.
< 1273790052 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ideone.com/u582h
< 1273790185 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273790209 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273790448 0 :gm|lap!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273790605 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.9/20100315083431]
< 1273791108 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vabot die
< 1273791120 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong chan :P
< 1273791317 0 :tombom_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1273791560 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273792106 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273792219 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rawr.
< 1273792250 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My Internet connection hates rain.
< 1273792297 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: underflow
< 1273792317 0 :dougx!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1273792347 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hates people with crappy Internet connections.
< 1273792367 0 :maedhros777!~michael@c-76-118-245-128.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273792374 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello again
< 1273792407 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yeah, sorry for leaving without answering your question, soupdragon
< 1273792443 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've (partially) recovered
< 1273792454 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An example program would be zeroes of 72 and i
< 1273792466 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273792492 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the input would be x^2 - (72+i)x + 72i = 0?
< 1273792513 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1273792516 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hang on, let me consider
< 1273792542 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273792568 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273792574 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it would be x^3 - 72x^2 - x + 72
< 1273792586 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Complex conjugates aren't executed
< 1273792595 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, one of them is executes
< 1273792602 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops, I meant executed :)
< 1273792608 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well I am confused
< 1273792615 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's (x - 72)(x - i)(x + i)
< 1273792623 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see it that way
< 1273792625 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := (x - 72)(x^2 - 1)
< 1273792627 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1273792648 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 and -1 are the zeros of x^2 - 1
< 1273792657 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i and -i are the zeros of x^2 + 1
< 1273792660 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, oops :)
< 1273792664 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're right
< 1273792683 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but why is it a cubic? I mean that has 3 roots
< 1273792687 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This darned thing seems to be obsessed with dropping connection.
< 1273792696 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :72, i and -i
< 1273792717 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I am having absurd difficulty getting a single freaking webpage to load. :(
< 1273792739 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Complex zeroes of the form a + bi are only considered by the absolute value of b
< 1273792750 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a, but that's unrelated
< 1273792768 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, negative a is different from a
< 1273792769 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay
< 1273792772 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But -b = b
< 1273792774 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep
< 1273792789 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273792790 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to go now, sorry to leave you devastated :)
< 1273792802 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is lost but it's okay
< 1273792803 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273792852 0 :cheater2!~cheater@ip-80-226-46-253.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273792858 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ilua
< 1273792939 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273793171 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-243-203-60.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273794705 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1273794758 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273794773 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantum computers can do linear search in O(sqrt(n))
< 1273794774 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1273794872 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273795058 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273795137 0 :maedhros777!~michael@c-76-118-245-128.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273795143 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, I'm back
< 1273795170 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi...... back ......... :D
< 1273795175 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've just been wondering -- are there any esoteric or real programming languages in another language (besides English)?
< 1273795185 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strange thought
< 1273795195 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A programming language in another language :)
< 1273795210 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :excel's "language" and VBA exist in localized versions
< 1273795222 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any others?
< 1273795245 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems strange that all of them are in English
< 1273795260 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273795279 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think a sanskrit lisp would be very nice
< 1273795289 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it exist?
< 1273795292 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1273795297 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I've seen some people talking about ideas for a chinese APL
< 1273795299 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welp, rebooting the router isn't helping HTTP any.
< 1273795313 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm
< 1273795317 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chinese APL? That would work quite well.
< 1273795326 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :APL is terrible :)
< 1273795327 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Python has a Spanish version
< 1273795327 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might be nice to take chinese characters and just use a random dictionary to map them to meanings in a programming language
< 1273795328 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, obviously this is your destiny
< 1273795345 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, I'm a guy who uses Chinese characters to write English. :P
< 1273795378 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look at this: http://blog.aegisub.org/2008/12/if-programming-languages-were-religions.html
< 1273795387 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See what it says about APL and VB =D
< 1273795410 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: nice! I was considering learning to do something like that, inventing my own english dialect using kanjis and translating all the linux software into it for sweet compactness and weirdness
< 1273795466 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another thought: how are accents represented in HTML?
< 1273795467 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. ćĽ˘ĺ­—-ć›¸en programming čŞž... The ć„Ź amuses ĺ• ĺ¤§tly.
< 1273795483 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777: Depends on the encoding format in use.
< 1273795485 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or on a European keyboard?
< 1273795522 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though the most general means of representing them is with the equivalent HTML entity. AKA a Unicode codepoint.
< 1273795531 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, ok
< 1273795538 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what about on a keyboard?
< 1273795541 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: kanji-something-en programming language... the thought amuses me greatly?
< 1273795565 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Kanji-written programming language. The idea amuses me greatly.
< 1273795608 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use č€ for thought, and ć„Ź for idea. The mapping is a bit imperfect, I admit, but it kinda-sorta works.
< 1273795639 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273795724 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye now
< 1273795725 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273795745 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "idea" kanji looked similar to how I remembered japanese "thought", but after looking it up they're quite different
< 1273795781 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they just share the "heart" radical(?) in the bottom
< 1273795845 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273795846 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273795931 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1273796148 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273796181 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GAH STOP DROPPING CONNECTIONS
< 1273796211 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How the hell is it that this damned thing manages to drop *specific connections*?
< 1273796281 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cannot browse the web, but I can browse Gopher.
< 1273796377 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION had that experience
< 1273796383 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you get to https:// stuff?
< 1273796419 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's a good https server to try?
< 1273796454 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Used to use https://secondlife.com
< 1273796491 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks for the login page for eBay
< 1273796505 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://signin.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?SignIn&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2F
< 1273796719 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I almost lost my Freenode connection, and didn't get the page loaded.
< 1273796836 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and I can't get an IM connection going at all.
< 1273797046 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1273797076 0 :biduzido!~biduzido@187.10.72.43 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273797134 0 :maedhros777!~michael@c-76-118-245-128.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273797139 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello again
< 1273797281 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273797332 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1273797334 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, can't browse the web with Elinks. *While no other connections exist*.
< 1273797375 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've got everything-but-what-normal-people-use Internet service.
< 1273797401 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tunnel HTTP over IRC!
< 1273797414 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very, very tempting.
< 1273797427 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Connection reset by peer". :(
< 1273797459 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you connect to SSH?
< 1273797477 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno; don't have a shell account handy.
< 1273797497 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, emergency ping
< 1273797512 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. What was the normal HTTP request?
< 1273797516 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HTTP 1.0 GET /
< 1273797517 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1273797522 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No
< 1273797527 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GET / HTTP/1.1
< 1273797532 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd look it up, but I can't.
< 1273797558 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you need to include the Host: header
< 1273797667 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone know if there are any Gravity compilers/interpreters out there?
< 1273797673 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Gravity
< 1273797699 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I'm getting someone to contact uorygl to see if I would be allowed to grant you a temporary account
< 1273797713 0 :Slereah!~jews@ANantes-259-1-82-50.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273797736 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777, I thought it was mathematically impossible to make a Gravity interp
< 1273797746 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least, one that will actually run
< 1273797747 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you could approximate an interpreter
< 1273797759 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I guess you're right :)
< 1273797768 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it seems like such a cool language
< 1273797776 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shame it can't run anything =D
< 1273797780 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273797793 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that, like, the definition of a programming language, that it is run?
< 1273797820 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1273797833 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'm having difficulty getting a response *using netcat to google*.
< 1273797900 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Anyone know of an easy way to discover if it's MTU issues?
< 1273797953 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yeah -- Sgeo, how do you do red text in IRC?
< 1273797968 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777, it only looks red because your name was mentioned
< 1273797976 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I typed:
< 1273797976 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Genuinely red text is different
< 1273797979 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :% nc www.google.com 80
< 1273797980 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HELLO
< 1273797985 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and google replied
< 1273797990 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, hi
< 1273797991 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HTTP/1.0 400 Bad Request
< 1273797991 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
< 1273797992 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Content-Length: 1350
< 1273797992 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 23:45:44 GMT
< 1273797992 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Server: GFE/2.0
< 1273797992 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, did you see my privmsg
< 1273797994 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't work
< 1273798003 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yeah.
< 1273798003 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777, I see it as red
< 1273798004 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you mean because it's my name?
< 1273798006 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, ok
< 1273798013 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, any luck?
< 1273798013 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: I have managed to get responses out of Google. *Only to invalid requests*.
< 1273798019 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: No.
< 1273798021 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was always wondering why that happened :)
< 1273798022 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh same here
< 1273798031 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, bad connection, or did I mistype the password?
< 1273798032 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try telnet
< 1273798122 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, so should I delete the account?
< 1273798307 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1273798360 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273798383 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that was succesful at making me lose every single connection.
< 1273798387 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm?
< 1273798393 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Each and every one.
< 1273798401 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was?
< 1273798411 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ssh
< 1273798426 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh :(
< 1273798446 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relevant portion:
< 1273798450 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you weren't successfully able to actually use it, though, I guess
< 1273798457 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :debug1: Remote protocol version 2.0, remote software version OpenSSH_4.7p1 Debian-8ubuntu1.2
< 1273798460 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :debug1: match: OpenSSH_4.7p1 Debian-8ubuntu1.2 pat OpenSSH_4*
< 1273798462 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :debug1: Enabling compatibility mode for protocol 2.0
< 1273798465 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :debug1: Local version string SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_5.3
< 1273798467 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :debug2: fd 3 setting O_NONBLOCK
< 1273798470 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :debug1: SSH2_MSG_KEXINIT sent
< 1273798470 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then... *Nothing*.
< 1273798472 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :debug3: Wrote 792 bytes for a total of 813
< 1273798483 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has no clue what any of that means
< 1273798484 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it stopped working during the key exchange.
< 1273798515 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The connection was made, but everything stopped working as soon as key negotiation began.
< 1273798521 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So can I delete the account?
< 1273798524 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1273798533 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I can't use it at all.
< 1273798555 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you're using encryption? must be something subversive then!
< 1273798567 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone know of a program to generate LaTeX code, or a good tutorial?
< 1273798599 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just write \sqrt{...} for square roots and \frac{...}{...} for division
< 1273798604 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's all you need to know realyl.....
< 1273798619 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at lesat that's all I know and I get by
< 1273798649 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :host header is mandatory in HTTP/1.1.
< 1273798672 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1273798680 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about sigma?
< 1273798693 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or exponents
< 1273798816 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-103-227.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273798838 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got a theory that it's the router's fault.
< 1273798872 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, if you sent something containing HTTP-like stuff to IRC, what would happen?
< 1273798874 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So nc www.googele.com 80 -> 'GET http://www.google.com/<ENTER>Host:<ENTER><ENTER>' hangs?
< 1273798887 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fiddle furiously with the router settings for content filtering, firewall functions and intrusion prevention/detection
< 1273798890 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ifconfig certainly isn't showing any errors.
< 1273798910 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"fiddle furiously"? :)
< 1273798912 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes that pikhq is probably glad that he's computer-savvy
< 1273798921 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least, savvy enough to use IRC
< 1273798931 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777: yes, no other way to fiddle really
< 1273798932 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Maedhros777 is wondering Sgeo makes text blue
< 1273798939 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1273798951 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :testing
< 1273798953 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops, I meant "how Sgeo makes text blue"
< 1273798964 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1273798968 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, watching ifconfig...
< 1273798976 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is +c color filtering?
< 1273798984 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+c
< 1273798987 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1273798991 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No errors. No dropped packets. Just an inexplicable lack of a response.
< 1273799013 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Yes.
< 1273799035 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GET http://google.com is meaningless
< 1273799062 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone want to -c the channel?
< 1273799132 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woah, who put swedish in the topic?
< 1273799237 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273799362 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-103-227.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273799383 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, now with the only IRC connect being to Freenode.
< 1273799419 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And let's make the only room I'm in #esoteric.
< 1273799458 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAGH WHY DONT I HAVE TCPDUMP
< 1273799523 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what happens if you disable all firewalls?
< 1273799562 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I am behind no firewalls ATM.
< 1273799592 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am directly connected to the modem, and I have no iptables rules, and the policy for INPUT, FORWARD, and OUTPUT is ACCEPT.
< 1273799626 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a DMZ thing?
< 1273799634 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1273799637 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, try a different OS?
< 1273799642 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am DIRECTLY ATTACHED TO THE MODEM
< 1273799653 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm on Linux.
< 1273799669 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, different distro then, or at least LiveCD?
< 1273799675 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See if it's some configuration issue
< 1273799675 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And lack the means to *install* a different OS *because I CANT MAKE ANY NON-IRC CONNECTIONS*
< 1273799700 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DCC!
< 1273799719 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm strongly suspecting that there's an MTU issue.
< 1273799761 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, hown do I USE dcc chat on this
< 1273799762 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: After local updates finish, I could maybe help with testing...
< 1273799769 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dcc isn't an irc connection
< 1273799778 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is Direct Client Connection
< 1273799785 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by definition you connect directly to the target :)
< 1273799797 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather, they connect to you (if you are sending (unless you use "passive" dcc))
< 1273799816 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From the looks of things, any sufficiently large packets are completely and utterly ignored?
< 1273799834 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well at least you can change the packet size with /dcc packetsize
< 1273799836 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :under mirc
< 1273799852 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is consistent with how the only HTTP response I have gotten is an error page.
< 1273799853 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, anyone want to send pikhq a LiveCD?
< 1273799867 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I think there's a tool for discovering the smallest mtu between you and some other host
< 1273799875 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or invent HTTP-over-DCC?
< 1273799876 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: MTU problems would cause that. More specifically, MTU problems on return path.
< 1273799877 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't have one, and also my upload is slooow
< 1273799906 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: What happenss if you set interface MTU to 1280?
< 1273799908 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Fucking wonderful. Fucking *wonderful*.
< 1273799917 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Same thing.
< 1273799923 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually have been playing with my MTU.
< 1273799929 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have anything new, but I'll try
< 1273799938 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I have actually had this happen before when my MTU was set wrong.
< 1273799975 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the other end has its MTU set wrong, I am going to hunt down my ISP and kill some people.
< 1273799982 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1273799995 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, maybe I shouldn't bother sending a livecd
< 1273800048 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, do you at least see me trying to send?
< 1273800048 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you accept a DCC send with irssi?
< 1273800058 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes.
< 1273800112 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh. Locale generation is slow and I apparently have lot of them enabled.
< 1273800174 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Anyone willing to set up an HTML server with an obscenely low MTU?
< 1273800193 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a way to change MTU in Apache?
< 1273800202 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe I could try and figure out what the MTU *is* for this link?
< 1273800212 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: "ifconfig eth0 mtu number-goes-here"
< 1273800228 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Path_MTU_discovery
< 1273800230 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, um, is there a risk of losing my ssh connection?
< 1273800253 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Thanks. Thanks for the link that I cannot read.
< 1273800275 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: No.
< 1273800282 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, what MTU shall I set?
< 1273800284 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: :D
< 1273800306 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: 1000 I guess?
< 1273800309 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The original MTU of Normish is 1500
< 1273800315 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1280 is high enough for IPv6 but low enough not to usually be a problem...
< 1273800330 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done
< 1273800336 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But now I can't seem to type into ssh
< 1273800337 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Could someone google the management IP for a "ViaSat Surfbeam satellite modem"?
< 1273800345 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://normish.nomictools.com
< 1273800388 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I broke Normish
< 1273800416 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh crap, I typoed
< 1273800429 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Connection reset by peer"
< 1273800431 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot mtu, so I did sudo ifconfig eth0 1000
< 1273800443 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are the *other* possible causes of that?
< 1273800461 0 :biduzido!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1273800531 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION blames pikhq for my typo
< 1273800625 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone? "Connection reset by peer" causes?
< 1273800675 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: tracepath says that the path-mtu between you and me is 1500
< 1273800707 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Okay, so it's not the MTU, then.
< 1273800799 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I killed Normish for nothing?!?
< 1273800832 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273801027 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-103-227.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273801088 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Can I send few pings there for testing?
< 1273801122 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Go for it.
< 1273801133 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been using ping -s to google.
< 1273801137 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And getting truncation.
< 1273801176 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone know how to use a sigma in LaTeX?
< 1273801203 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1024 byte IP packets seem to work OK. Latencies are slow.
< 1273801262 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I do have a very, very high-latency link.
< 1273801264 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So do 1500, and return packets do not seem truncated.
< 1273801296 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's your IPv4 address, Ilari?
< 1273801306 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, I've never seen ping times this high before
< 1273801318 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*long, times are long
< 1273801320 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Satellite-tastic link.
< 1273801346 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you must really be in the middle of nowhere
< 1273801352 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am.
< 1273801352 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :move somewhere they have internet!
< 1273801354 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You know how to do 6to4 address to ipv4 conversion?
< 1273801370 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: No, I'd look it up but I can't.
< 1273801379 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shall ping olsner
< 1273801405 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12 packets transmitted, 0 received, 100% packet loss, time 10999ms
< 1273801411 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's helpful.
< 1273801414 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's weird, I can ping you
< 1273801428 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your host is probably set to drop ICMP?
< 1273801439 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, right, I probably am
< 1273801457 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.5-2.2 seconds
< 1273801487 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: ?
< 1273801506 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does LaTeX work in the Esolang wiki?
< 1273801514 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried it and it didn't work
< 1273801525 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just showed "<math>a^2</math> "
< 1273801545 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that means a TCP connection takes at least 4-6 seconds to set up?
< 1273801552 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Yeah.
< 1273801564 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More if DNS hasn't been cached.
< 1273801647 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273801648 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: 2002:5870:32ae::1 -> 587032ae -> 1483748014.
< 1273801661 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Thank you for not being helpful.
< 1273801684 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could you stick that in a more useful format, like 4 octets?
< 1273801711 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Wait. You can just use the full number, can't you?
< 1273801713 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1273801724 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 packets transmitted, 0 received, 100% packet loss, time 6999ms
< 1273801730 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273801786 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmf. No truncation when pinging slashdot.
< 1273801816 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But nor is there any actual access to slashdot via HTTP.
< 1273801836 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got half a mind to take a sledgehammer to a computer.
< 1273801853 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273801869 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: There is small HTTP server on port 7682.
< 1273802091 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe they just use a timeout < 6s :)
< 1273802096 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1273802117 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-103-227.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273802158 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: <Ilari> pikhq: There is small HTTP server on port 7682.
< 1273802182 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is?
< 1273802207 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Saw request (200 OK reply).
< 1273802224 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm certainly not getting the reply.
< 1273802242 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On Slashdot, or something else?
< 1273802255 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On Ilari's system.
< 1273802287 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1273802301 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: How large was the reply?
< 1273802513 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: The page size is about 900 bytes.
< 1273802546 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273802562 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-103-227.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273802714 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah. I can't use tcpdump (I have it installed but trying to use it sends load average through the roof).
< 1273802730 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I cannot has tcpdump.
< 1273802934 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well, I set firewall to log all outbound IPv4 packets.
< 1273803074 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-103-227.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273803102 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273803217 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Maybe try requesting it again (I should see the outbound packets in firewall logs now)...
< 1273803472 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see what looks like repeated TX attempts of 52 byte ACK + 98 byte ACK/PSH.
< 1273803557 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... DST=75.106.103.227 LEN=98 TOS=0x00 PREC=0x00 TTL=64 ID=56999 DF PROTO=TCP SPT=7682 DPT=46258 WINDOW=432 RES=0x00 ACK PSH URGP=0
< 1273803586 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... DST=75.106.103.227 LEN=52 TOS=0x00 PREC=0x00 TTL=64 ID=61552 DF PROTO=TCP SPT=7682 DPT=46259 WINDOW=432 RES=0x00 ACK URGP=0
< 1273803587 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-103-227.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273803660 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273803682 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also saw this: DST=75.106.103.227 LEN=938 TOS=0x00 PREC=0x00 TTL=64 ID=27331 DF PROTO=TCP SPT=7682 DPT=46261 WINDOW=432 RES=0x00 ACK PSH FIN ... No re-TX seen.
< 1273803697 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1273803710 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was there before "I also saw this"?
< 1273803716 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:13 < Ilari> pikhq_: Maybe try requesting it again (I should see the outbound packets in firewall logs now)...
< 1273803719 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last thing I saw.
< 1273803776 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see what looks like repeated TX attempts of 52 byte ACK + 98 byte ACK/PSH.
< 1273803796 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm.
< 1273803810 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So this implies... What?
< 1273803837 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also hmm... What was that 938 byte ACK/PSH/FIN packet there about? I didn't see any retransmits...
< 1273803838 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My ISP is about as reliable as smoke signals from on top of an active volcano?
< 1273803893 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whee, size 7.8 font
< 1273803906 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273803982 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obiviously not MTU problem when packets that small have problems and packets of 1.5kB make through...
< 1273804028 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273804038 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-103-227.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273804181 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Also, why IRC is pretty much only thing that works (it is unstable, but...)?
< 1273804194 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRC is presumably low-bandwidth.
< 1273804202 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't connect to irc.foonetic.net.
< 1273804215 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But still, mostly I can do IRC.
< 1273804486 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273804498 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273804502 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-103-227.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273804509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, try wireshark as root, generally it works, probably the tcpdump issue is just a command line flag issue or such
< 1273804520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, wireshark will complain loudly
< 1273804525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about you running it as root
< 1273804539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is up to you to decide if you want to do that
< 1273804552 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a way to make my .avis take up much less space?
< 1273804569 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, compress them?
< 1273804583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, ogg theora, mpeg, or whatever
< 1273804587 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or zip if you prefer that
< 1273804594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, iirc avi is uncompressed
< 1273804598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not 100% sure
< 1273804599 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I can't run graphical apps as root.
< 1273804607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, gtksudo?
< 1273804615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, or ksu or whatever kde has
< 1273804656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, for me graphical apps for root work with "sudo programname" but not "sudo -s" or su or "sudo su -"
< 1273804668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is somewhat strange yes
< 1273804686 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I get Archive Manager to compress to maximum possible extent?
< 1273804704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, which one?
< 1273804714 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one with GNOME
< 1273804722 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh no idea, I use cmd line tools
< 1273804735 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: None of those work (I am not authorized for those).
< 1273804750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, eh? so you don't have root access locally?
< 1273804761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, then you are pretty much fucked
< 1273804799 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION deletes the firewall log rule...
< 1273804863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, something like tar -jcf foo.tar.bz2 foo for bzip2, not sure if it is max, but it would be trivial to do something like: tar -cf - foo | xz -z9e - > foo.tar.xz
< 1273804870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that may not work exactly like that
< 1273804875 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't test run the latter command
< 1273804886 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it should work, or something pretty close to it
< 1273804891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better test to make sure
< 1273804908 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION somehow doubts it will get 12GB of video down to less than 1GB
< 1273804913 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and if you want zip I have absolutely no clue about anything except unzip
< 1273804919 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, well yes
< 1273804920 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273804926 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"yes"?
< 1273804928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, not without lossy compression
< 1273804942 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, how do I do lossy compression on the command line?
< 1273804945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you want mpeg or ogg theora or such
< 1273804982 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, IIRC gzip could compress ~59GiB of raw video data (video dump from game) to about 2GB...
< 1273805001 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, huh
< 1273805038 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, I don't know, I would read the manual for the the relevant programs. In this case that is probably ffmpeg or such
< 1273805051 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it has large single-color surfaces, which really tends to compress well...
< 1273805065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, oh and -9e to xz might not be a good idea, I wouldn't be surprised if it took days
< 1273805073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like just -9 might be better
< 1273805076 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you asked for max
< 1273805153 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : tgz -9cf . > futurama.tgz
< 1273805158 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is that not working like I want?
< 1273805189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1273805194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, I have no clue what tgz is
< 1273805202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is an unknown command to me
< 1273805216 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tgz doesn't accept options
< 1273805239 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just run tar with -z
< 1273805247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, someone made an alias for tar -z?
< 1273805262 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, for tar | gzip
< 1273805268 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is strictly worse
< 1273805277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, well passing -f and redirecting stdout makes no sense at all
< 1273805314 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that too
< 1273805369 0 :maedhros777!~michael@c-76-118-245-128.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273805386 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With just tgz futurama.tgz, will it be much larger than I want/
< 1273805405 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop using tgz
< 1273805406 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use tar
< 1273805417 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273805511 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-103-227.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273805542 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, look. Freenode's back.
< 1273805549 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt any other Internet is.
< 1273805651 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. Still don't have *the fuckinsadfgnklasdjgh;blohzsadvjhnasb;hg web*
< 1273805674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, tar -zcf futurama.tgz dirwithfuturama
< 1273805678 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, do not use . there
< 1273805685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, because then it might try to include itself
< 1273805687 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: .avis are compressed.
< 1273805692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes it would be much bigger
< 1273805713 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A .avi file is just a container for some video compression format.
< 1273805719 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, should I include 9?
< 1273805723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, sure? I'm pretty sure they were uncompressed, or perhaps it can be uncompressed as well?
< 1273805733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, tar doesn't take that option afaik, check man page
< 1273805736 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's a container format.
< 1273805744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, and can it contain uncompressed?
< 1273805754 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that is one such codec.
< 1273805761 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Almost *nobody* uses it for raw video though.
< 1273805764 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Maybe phone ISP tech support? Or is the average IQ below CMB temperature there?
< 1273805804 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273805950 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, I'm not getting status on the command line the way I did with tgz
< 1273805960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, mhm
< 1273805963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about it?
< 1273805983 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, I want to see the progress as it's being made.. wait, that's -v, isn't it?
< 1273805992 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt tar itself does that
< 1273805993 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep
< 1273806013 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if as pikhq said it is compressed then I doubt this will help at all
< 1273806026 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1273806128 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed, it seems to not be helping
< 1273806129 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1273806146 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, how do I reencode the videos?
< 1273806154 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, I just want to play these things on my phone
< 1273806434 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-103-227.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273806926 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1273807291 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273807380 0 :Gregor-L!~Gregor@67-129-37-226.dia.static.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273807764 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1273807858 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I guess my IRC connection has stabled out.
< 1273807867 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still not getting any not-IRC.
< 1273808358 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, can you telnet?
< 1273808373 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try telnet alt.nethack.org
< 1273808388 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273808388 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, not
< 1273808408 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :telnet nethack.alt.org
< 1273808461 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1273808474 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lagtastic, but yes.
< 1273808520 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm
< 1273808638 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I can gopher.
< 1273808653 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, irc.xkcd.com#xkcd
< 1273808666 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I cannot connect to Foonetic.
< 1273808707 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't just switch ISPs?
< 1273808713 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I can bridge a channel on FreeNode with Foonetic
< 1273808727 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: If I could I would.
< 1273808736 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I can *connect* to Foonetic.
< 1273808752 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Joining #xkcd causes the connection to drop.
< 1273808807 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, can you connect to any other channels on Foonetic?
< 1273808830 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think so.
< 1273808859 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, join #pikhq and I'll direct anyone who wants to help to there?
< 1273808935 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God dammit it autojoined.
< 1273808944 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm still connected.
< 1273808968 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm
< 1273808981 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, are you receiving chat?
< 1273809002 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing from #xkcd after "<@res0> puddle dried up"
< 1273809011 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And... Lagging out.
< 1273809018 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah
< 1273809023 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, I'll set up a bridge
< 1273809025 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#pikhq
< 1273809028 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm,
< 1273809040 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#pikhq here will connect to #pikhq there
< 1273809183 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah. At the rate this is going I'm starting to think some asswad at the ISP is actually monitoring for connections that use "too much bandwidth" to drop them or something.
< 1273809835 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ping, you're still in Foonetic, right?
< 1273810010 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq pikhq pikhq
< 1273810040 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: soupdragon
< 1273810117 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, why are you not responding in Foonetic???
< 1273810743 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-103-227.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273810827 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273811056 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273811263 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-103-227.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273811322 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273811776 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-103-227.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273811821 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273812167 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-103-227.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273812197 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273812358 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273812551 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1273812621 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-103-227.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273812661 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, apparently I have 88% packet loss.
< 1273812678 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm amazed I can do IP.
< 1273812700 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How are you connected to your ISP?
< 1273812702 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*TCP
< 1273812712 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can "do IP" with 99% packet loss :P
< 1273812722 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: I send my packets TO SPACE
< 1273812732 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a satellite sends them back FROM SPACE
< 1273812738 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Satellite?  Sounds laggy.
< 1273812750 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I normally have 2-second pings.
< 1273812954 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least it isn't Freenet.
< 1273812969 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, not as laggy as Freenet.
< 1273812985 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders what the mail system would be like if it were like Freenet.
< 1273812996 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Gregor-L> It would be like Freenet.
< 1273813024 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess people wouldn't receive messages until they look in their mailboxes.
< 1273813031 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is already how it works, so I guess it would be exactly the same.
< 1273813049 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Satellite Internet: Not As Laggy As The United States Postal Service.
< 1273813137 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-103-227.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273813161 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273813702 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Plugging in the router
< 1273813845 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273813910 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273814166 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, Internet success?
< 1273814180 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I appear to have issues with #xkcd still. XD
< 1273814193 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I can browse t3h webs!
< 1273814242 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, you are in #xkcd
< 1273814252 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm lagging out.
< 1273814295 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah
< 1273814316 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT WEB
< 1273814317 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HTTP
< 1273814320 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MY GOD
< 1273814341 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<maedhros777> I've just been wondering -- are there any esoteric or real programming languages in another language (besides English)?
< 1273814352 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i recall an icelandic one being discussed
< 1273814362 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's Perligata.
< 1273814388 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :skrifastreng ("writestring") was one of the commands, iirc
< 1273814417 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was enough to google it, it's called Grunnur
< 1273814436 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait
< 1273814441 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was just another command
< 1273814458 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fj%C3%B6lnir_(programming_language)
< 1273814506 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which also leads us to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Non-English-based_programming_languages
< 1273814544 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although a lot of those are esolangs not based on a real natlang at all :D
< 1273814581 0 :adu!~ajr@pool-173-66-16-26.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273814635 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess Zuse's PlankalkĂĽl is also pretty famous
< 1273814672 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup, /join #xkcd kills my Freenode link.
< 1273814673 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and presumably german, although the wikipedia sample doesn't really show it)
< 1273814691 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm.
< 1273814692 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Foonetic.
< 1273814967 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is reading about GOTO++. If he translates the French correctly, each program is compiled to an intermediate representation and a custom VM to interpret it
< 1273815700 0 :gm|lap!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273816404 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :downloading ghc because hugs interactive mode is ass
< 1273816419 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least from what i can establish
< 1273816588 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear, i just realised what i typed
< 1273816589 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ben@95lx:~$ man hugs
< 1273816708 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoa.
< 1273816721 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ICANN is doing non-ASCII TLDs.
< 1273816740 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all greek to me.  or was that arabic.
< 1273816759 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gets kommrade.â­
< 1273816794 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually if unicode gets a cheeseburger glyph
< 1273816803 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://xn----rmckbbajlc6dj7bxne2c.xn--wgbh1c/ This is the hostname of the Egyptian Ministry of Communications and Information Technology.
< 1273816804 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then ICANN has (cheeseburger)
< 1273816872 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1273816928 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_>
< 1273816984 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice
< 1273817646 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gm|lap: I wurve the man command.
< 1273817649 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man mount
< 1273817652 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man touch
< 1273817668 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man finger
< 1273817686 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch
< 1273818344 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273818498 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1273818546 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273818565 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes;yes;yes
< 1273818950 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273818950 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273818953 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273818953 0 :EgoBot!~EgoBot@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273819092 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273819609 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273819800 0 :Gregor-L!~Gregor@67-129-37-226.dia.static.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273820630 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273821940 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273822213 0 :asiekierka!asiekierka@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273822221 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello
< 1273822284 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rawr.
< 1273822291 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i
< 1273822297 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you
< 1273822303 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he, she, it
< 1273822303 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me
< 1273822304 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we
< 1273822305 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they
< 1273822310 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1273822313 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i screwed up
< 1273822315 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i missed a you
< 1273822320 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and placed a Mii
< 1273822396 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :moi
< 1273822398 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :toi
< 1273822556 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lui, elle, soi
< 1273822640 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my
< 1273822640 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://translationparty.com/#7352230
< 1273822650 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"code esoteric language do make real brain make"
< 1273822651 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gives
< 1273822662 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Esoteric language code is actually generated by the brain"
< 1273822846 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, "talk make esoteric malbolge do do and create code generation"
< 1273822855 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently crashes translationparty
< 1273822866 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't always work: http://translationparty.com/#7352244
< 1273822904 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i got a 2-cycle http://translationparty.com/#7352245
< 1273822915 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://translationparty.com/#7352249
< 1273822928 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the site doesnt test for cycles :(
< 1273822941 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lame
< 1273822949 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, do you want to lament about it? :P
< 1273822982 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://translationparty.com/#7352252
< 1273823045 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://translationparty.com/#7352257
< 1273823045 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"talk make esoteric malbolge do do and create code generation"
< 1273823063 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gives "Malbolge Thus, the code generator can create a powerful statement"
< 1273823097 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://translationparty.com/#7352261
< 1273823244 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://translationparty.com/#7352274 - a certain volcano you all know
< 1273823249 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :separated by " " every 2 letters
< 1273823257 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gives The Castle District in the North Fiji fatal Raja
< 1273823292 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://translationparty.com/#7352277
< 1273823336 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you say i did a difficult thing?
< 1273823337 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how?
< 1273823355 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"as ie ki er ka" gives
< 1273823365 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In other words, the ER department"
< 1273823445 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1273823452 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://translationparty.com/#7352287
< 1273823472 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this one is deep: http://translationparty.com/#7352286
< 1273823518 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://translationparty.com/#7352295 vs http://translationparty.com/#7352293
< 1273823579 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afk, food
< 1273823975 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1273823999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1273824000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273824020 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Iteresting
< 1273824023 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Interesting
< 1273824034 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have managed to get it to produce a word that it cannot translate in either direction
< 1273824123 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've also yet to produce an input including both 'quark' and 'gluon' which doesn't cause it to fail to translate at least one word
< 1273824132 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://translationparty.com/#7352347
< 1273824152 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kanji makes it into english
< 1273824172 0 :asiekierka!asiekierka@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273824191 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The word "kanji"?
< 1273824202 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or actual kanji?
< 1273824206 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shall look
< 1273824214 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should sleep now
< 1273824219 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kan-G
< 1273824258 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My goodness. Actual kanji.
< 1273824293 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Stars hidden in a crowd of his [face-haven]"?
< 1273824465 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273824844 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1273825017 0 :asiekierka!asiekierka@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273825268 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1273825854 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-13-9.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273826257 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1273827249 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273827472 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh... is translationparty broken?
< 1273829728 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1273831168 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@150.140.229.33 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273832546 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
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< 1273834344 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1273836698 0 :cheater3!~cheater@ip-80-226-19-42.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273836845 0 :cheater2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1273837023 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1273837517 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ilua
< 1273837598 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@150.140.229.33 JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1273838972 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: sleeeeeep
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< 1273843791 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273844828 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273846259 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273847879 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
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< 1273848789 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1273849586 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1273850072 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273850376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have an idea for how to make an AI. It is probably crazy. And someone probably thought of it already...
< 1273850436 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(oh and it probably won't work)
< 1273850516 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273850541 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latter being a pretty safe assumption
< 1273850543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically simulate evolution with genetic algorithms, don't aim for AI that can pass the turing test right away, rather aim for something that can respond to it's simulated environment, say, along the lines of a very very simple bacteria, when you have something reasonable there, extend the fitness test to require something more
< 1273850544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on
< 1273850547 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1273850550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what do you think?
< 1273850554 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: adu
< 1273850593 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i'm sure it's been thought of before yeah...
< 1273850594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably you could work yourself up to something that could seem like a simple AI in some hundred years. Unlikely to take as long as real evolution since computers are rather fast.
< 1273850611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, was it tested though?
< 1273850628 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't say i knew who did it
< 1273850631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1273850636 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just that it's too obvious
< 1273850665 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, heard that story of Columbus and the egg?
< 1273850666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P
< 1273850667 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suspect the problem is you are enormously underestimating the complexity of environment needed to evolve intelligence
< 1273850700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there is even a separate wikipedia page on it heh)
< 1273850739 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've heard one such story, which fits the subject so i assume that is it
< 1273850774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hm I did consider complexity but I wasn't sure how bad it would be, bad yes but no idea how bad.
< 1273850775 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("anyone could have thought of that" "but they didn't!" essentially)
< 1273850782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but probably I underestimated it yes
< 1273850787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yes
< 1273850822 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i think there is a theory that much of the final intelligence evolution was due to social interaction between humans
< 1273850852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, considering you can get interesting things with breading FPGAs (famous example is that circuit able to detect two different tones, without using a reference clock)
< 1273850865 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably we tried to evolve to outsmart each other :)
< 1273850890 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(seeing as the other highly intelligent animals are also highly social)
< 1273850892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, okay so you could introduce that in your environment after you get something that is able to be aware of other AIs in that environment
< 1273850913 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273850920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for speed reasons you could probably skip that during the initial stages, but it should probably be introduced not too late either
< 1273850951 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1273850986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, but yes, it probably would take too much resources to be feasible :/
< 1273851034 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, on the other hand I suspect designing an AI with "traditional engineering" may be unfeasible for humans.
< 1273851082 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as we don't know how _humans_ manage to be intelligent, sure
< 1273851102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, heck if you wanted to evolve AIs like that you would probably have to make the environment (the fitness function) dynamic too. I mean, consider on earth, life changed the environment a lot
< 1273851133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stuff like production of oxygen I mean
< 1273851134 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes.  although maybe artificial evolution could skip some of the long static periods.
< 1273851166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what do you mean here?
< 1273851188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I can think of several interpretations of that statement)
< 1273851229 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :life didn't evolve fast _all_ the time, because the environment didn't always change much.  punctuated equilibrium, it's called afair
< 1273851247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true
< 1273851342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, but it still changed, surely you can't just keep the same generation and extrapolate the environment 10 million years? It seems quite possible that then everything will be unfit. I mean, small gradual changes in environment are not too hard to adapt to, compared to sharp changes.
< 1273851345 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273851377 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273851409 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well species _do_ occasionally die out when they are unfit for a new environment, i presume
< 1273851438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, even if nothing much happened it seems unlikely to have been completely static, and perhaps some random mutation in the skipped generations would have caused far reaching consequences.
< 1273851447 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i don't know how much is environment and how much is new competition
< 1273851462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, just think of production of oxygen, iirc things were pretty static before that for quite some time.
< 1273851481 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well naturally not completely static there are _all_ kinds of cycles and events
< 1273851492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1273851528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, I doubt actually simulating the chemical earth is a good idea for such AI evolution.
< 1273851602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ooh new idea that ensures a high probability of friendly AI! However it requires some technology we don't yet have. And I have no idea how much storage space it needs...
< 1273851624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, basically, model a human. Every molecule
< 1273851631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then simulate this system
< 1273851641 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :primates presumably evolved some of that brain to be able to distinguish a lot of different foods (fruit) visually, they have an extremely varied (and time-varying) diet
< 1273851655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm interesting
< 1273851695 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because not all forest plants bear fruit at the same time
< 1273851702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true
< 1273851705 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially in the tropics
< 1273851735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, just simulating a cell down to molecular level should be interesting enough and quite hard.
< 1273851762 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not entirely convinced emulating humans is the best recipe for friendliness.  especially once you try to go _beyond_ human intelligence
< 1273851765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and might help find out how feasible doing anything more advanced would be (I guess it wouldn't at all)
< 1273851785 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hm true. but at least you would get an AI passing the turing test
< 1273851788 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're not known for being friendly with inferior species
< 1273851808 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(unless it suits us)
< 1273851892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl, strange sound from computer
< 1273851929 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273851942 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1273852092 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1273852134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unable to locate source
< 1273852141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and doesn't repeat hm...
< 1273852557 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273852853 0 :Gregor-L!~Gregor@67-129-37-226.dia.static.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273853230 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1273853548 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273853657 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273853707 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273853856 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273853857 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273854161 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273854635 0 :benuphoenix!~Schrodin@187.sub-97-61-226.myvzw.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273854680 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just spent three-fourths of my savings on dvds and printer ink last night. Now, I finally have more in my checking account than in my savings account. This sucks.
< 1273854798 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and main(){cout << "I'm an idiot that still uses iosttream." << endl;}
< 1273854823 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273854861 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1273855104 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a question about brainfuck. How does one output text to standard output using it?
< 1273855135 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~chatzilla@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273855387 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273855390 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1273855401 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I gotta log off. I'm using my blackberry...
< 1273855581 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry about telling the world how broke I am. I'm just pissed at myself for not realizing that having $70 in savings is a bad idea.
< 1273855607 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1273855635 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love the way that xkcd's irc bot isn't much more sophisticated than our very own fungot.
< 1273855635 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it's time you jumped off this mortal coil... are you all right? of course! you were so young! you ran around saying " daddy! the children are going?! the king hast been injured? what's the big deal? so what if we won a war out there! can't it see i love my daddy! the children are going!
< 1273855652 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See?
< 1273855710 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style
< 1273855710 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct* darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube
< 1273855718 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273855734 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^help
< 1273855734 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^<lang> <code>; ^def <command> <lang> <code>; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool
< 1273855744 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^help style
< 1273855744 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^<lang> <code>; ^def <command> <lang> <code>; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool
< 1273855806 0 :benuphoenix!~benuphoen@ool-182e6881.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273855823 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273855840 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style
< 1273855840 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct* darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube
< 1273855847 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style youtube
< 1273855847 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: youtube (Some YouTube comments)
< 1273855851 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot
< 1273855852 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: holy crap, that was just making that up in time.
< 1273855926 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1273855927 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style lovecraft
< 1273855927 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: lovecraft (H. P. Lovecraft's writings)
< 1273855932 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, in some programming channel: "<***> its like brainfuck to me"
< 1273855950 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot
< 1273855953 0 :benuphoenix!~benuphoen@ool-182e6881.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273855957 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot
< 1273855960 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah!
< 1273855966 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot the fickle
< 1273855967 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: " you, mr. de marigny and phillips, across the putrid moat and under the prevailing stimulus my son wingate would often go up to different heights and scan the fnord waste for signs of dim, fumbling terror about the way he knew it would be
< 1273856129 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is going to do horrible things to his X server so as to play Portal
< 1273856132 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Night
< 1273856185 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273856244 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay im on my way to making my IRC bot in an esoteric language!
< 1273856306 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273856308 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273856320 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
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< 1273857152 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273857178 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273857909 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273858384 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1273858600 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1273858964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1273859475 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1273859761 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273860029 0 :AnMaster!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273860956 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273861044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1273861269 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273861285 0 :tombom_!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273861320 0 :AnMaster!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273861360 0 :tombom__!tombom@82.11.84.195 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273861393 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-65-69.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273861455 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-13-9.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273861460 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1273861560 0 :tombom_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1273861580 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1273861882 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273862363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1273862507 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Calling all alise. Calling all alise.
< 1273862513 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there an alise in the room?
< 1273862630 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MIB
< 1273862643 0 :MIB!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no such thing as an alise
< 1273862647 0 :MIB!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :oerjan
< 1273862703 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Swamp gas, weather balloons, so on.
< 1273862730 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just so much hot air
< 1273862740 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273862895 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.ioccc.org/1984/mullender.c I love obfuscated C.
< 1273862917 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(VAX and PDP-11)
< 1273862975 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273863612 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, anything really interesting happen while I was gone?
< 1273863621 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :preferably eso-wise, but I don't mind too much if it's offtopic
< 1273863667 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I did have odd network behavior wherein I could access IRC and Gopher and nothing else.
< 1273864208 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273864419 0 :Gregor-L_!~Gregor@75-151-73-57-Spokane.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273864474 0 :AnMaster!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273864632 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1273864698 0 :Gregor-L_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1273864725 0 :Gregor-L_!~Gregor@67-129-37-226.dia.static.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273864777 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that sounds amusing
< 1273864809 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good God it was annoying.
< 1273864930 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1273865212 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273866878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think my adsl modem is having hardware issues
< 1273866960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after rebooting it (due to it becoming unresponsive to dns, then a few minutes later connections dying and finally the webui of the modem itself going down), it had reset about half of the settings
< 1273866966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some with garbage, some with factory defaults
< 1273866988 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I did a clean install of it, and found out I can't let it reboot after it, nor can I restore config
< 1273866998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there are some settings I can't change
< 1273867001 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273867019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, pikhq: ever heard about anything like that?
< 1273867030 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't
< 1273867040 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then, I tend not to mess with modems/routers, I just leave them be
< 1273867045 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm?
< 1273867051 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well I was leaving it alone when this happened
< 1273867072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, plus I can't use defaults, no password for admin and wep for wlan... :P
< 1273867077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no way I will leave a modem like that
< 1273867097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus I need to enter PPPoE settings anyway
< 1273867101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or it won't connect
< 1273867271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, plus it worked okay before...
< 1273867640 0 :Alex3012!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273867649 0 :soupdragon!~quantum@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273867677 0 :Alex3012!~chatzilla@ool-18b989d3.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273868558 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~chatzilla@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273868575 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, thought experiment:
< 1273868581 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: soupdragon
< 1273868597 0 :soupdragon!~quantum@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273868608 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I make a filesystem on a file, then mount it, then try to move the file into the mounted filesystem, what happens?
< 1273868641 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_o
< 1273868649 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o___O?
< 1273868665 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, it's obvious.
< 1273868674 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have a problem with it
< 1273868694 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The file would have to be larger than the free space in the filesystem.
< 1273868707 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Either the system call fails, or a copy of the filesystem is stuck in the file system, and the reference count of the filesystem's file is decremented.
< 1273868721 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meaning that once you unmount the filesystem, it completely disappears.
< 1273868734 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But to where?
< 1273868748 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To where what?
< 1273868758 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whither does it disappear?
< 1273868799 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same place any non-referenced inodes and blocks go: the free list.
< 1273868807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hm squashfs is read-only isn't it?
< 1273868873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, also which system call(s) fails? open/read/write/close or unlink?
< 1273868889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the size thing makes it probably the former group
< 1273868896 0 :Guest_854!~IceChat7@212088073009.static.sonofon.dk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273868912 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ... rename?
< 1273868927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, it works between filesystems?
< 1273868929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1273868936 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks
< 1273868941 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh maybe the copy and remove is done in kernel then
< 1273868948 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, it doesn't.
< 1273868982 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rename will return EXDEV, which means the move command does open, read, write, close, and unlink.
< 1273868989 0 :hiato!~fdulu@41-135-6-154.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273868993 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, it's the second behavior I described, not the first.
< 1273869000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1273869020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, but it would fail since unless the fs is compressed it will be larger than the space available on that disk
< 1273869029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and compressed fs have a tendency of being read-only
< 1273869030 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries it
< 1273869040 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: He never said anything about it being compressed.
< 1273869049 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And many, many filesystems support sparse files.
< 1273869058 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It worked.
< 1273869062 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.o
< 1273869069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm good point, but doesn't those need some special command to create it?
< 1273869083 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fear to unmount it, lest I destroy the universe.
< 1273869100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, unlikely.
< 1273869103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very unlikely
< 1273869119 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, more importantly, my computer.
< 1273869129 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also unlikely, I suppose.
< 1273869132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, you have to remember mv basically copies the file then removes the original when moving between different mount points
< 1273869144 0 :Guest_854!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: He who laughs last, thinks slowest
< 1273869163 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: GNU mv attempts to keep files sparse.
< 1273869167 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it hasn't really copied?
< 1273869168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :within a mount point it will just be moved in file hierarchy by the kernel in some way (probably varies between different FS)
< 1273869173 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no, there's no "special command" to create it.
< 1273869178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm
< 1273869199 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead, you just seek and write.
< 1273869200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, so how does it try to keep them sparse?
< 1273869203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha
< 1273869232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that explains why the copy worked
< 1273869247 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: mv copies the file to the new filesystem. It then unlinks the file in the old filesystem.
< 1273869257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, the image on there is likely corrupt since probably it was written to while mv was reading it
< 1273869260 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All that an unlink does, though, is remove the name for the inode.
< 1273869289 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any program that had the file open is still reading from that inode.
< 1273869302 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When no programs access it, then the inode is marked free.
< 1273869314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, correction: if it was the last hardlink the file will be marked as free
< 1273869325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather the inode
< 1273869336 0 :benuphoenix!~root@ool-182e6881.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273869337 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Right, right. You can have multiple names attached.
< 1273869340 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the bit about hardlinks is important, otherwise it would cause havoc.
< 1273869353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, there is no way to find all attached names is there though?
< 1273869357 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can read and write files in the mounted fs without corruption.
< 1273869369 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Sure there is. Grep.
< 1273869375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, expected, what I said was that the image stored on that fs is now corrupted
< 1273869388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm or find /mountpoint -inode or such I bet
< 1273869405 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes, that's because your mounted filesystem is still on the original filesystem.
< 1273869405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc you can get the inode with either some ls option or with stat(1)
< 1273869412 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just no longer has a *name*.
< 1273869426 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, so the data is still there.
< 1273869440 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sheep
< 1273869442 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's what *we've been fucking telling you*.
< 1273869448 0 :sheep!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :hiato
< 1273869452 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK!
< 1273869457 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A UNIX filesystem is reference counted.
< 1273869465 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm can you have more than one name for a symlink? as in ln -s /bin foo; ln foo bar
< 1273869466 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ls -i"'s the list-inode option; it's the easiest to remember.
< 1273869477 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Filesystem-dependent.
< 1273869480 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ah
< 1273869508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only have ext2/4 handy, and I'm not about to mess around on /boot to try ext2 behaviour
< 1273869523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how is it easier to remember than ls -l ?
< 1273869528 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm pretty sure that ext2 filesystems shove the symlink data in the filename structure.
< 1273869535 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. The file structure.
< 1273869536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least ls -l you use sometimes
< 1273869536 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fine structure
< 1273869547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1273869555 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(along with the filename, permissions, extended attributes, etc.)
< 1273869567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, so that means it wouldn't or would work?
< 1273869579 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Wouldn't, as a symlink does not have an inode.
< 1273869587 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The superlative may have been superfluous. Let's settle for "easy to remember".
< 1273869626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no symlinks on /boot
< 1273869650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, agreed
< 1273869678 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doh anyway this /boot is ext3, I wonder why
< 1273869690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ext4 shows inode numbers for ls -i
< 1273869694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for symlinks
< 1273869699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same for ext3
< 1273869702 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Hrm.
< 1273869714 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Ext2fs implements fast symbolic links. A fast symbolic link does not use any data block on the filesystem. The target name is not stored in a data block but in the inode itself."
< 1273869719 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it has an inode; it doesn't have data.
< 1273869720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah ext2 I can't find any of atm, seems I have all my /boots as ext3
< 1273869730 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Ah, I'm having a thinko.
< 1273869732 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1273869741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now FAT on the other hand
< 1273869743 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The inode *is* where the file stuff is stored.
< 1273869746 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Though they say the fast symlinks have a maximum length limit of 60 chars. Might be dependant on inode size though.)
< 1273869764 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a hardlink is a new inode that points to the same blocks as another one.
< 1273869771 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1273869788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, where is the filename then, is it not stored with the inode?
< 1273869797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm probably in directory structure
< 1273869804 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Directory structure.
< 1273869809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also doesn't ext4 store very small files inline in the inode or something?
< 1273869817 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1273869826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so hardlinks wouldn't work for those?
< 1273869828 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ext4 also doesn't use blocks for very *large* files when it can.
< 1273869835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know about the extents
< 1273869844 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I think hardlinking will force ext4 to create a block.
< 1273869863 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hardlinking *is* a system call. It can do that. ;)
< 1273869868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true
< 1273869880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :symlinking must be some system call too I guess
< 1273869885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea which one
< 1273869897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh symlink(2) XD
< 1273869920 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure "hardlink is a new inode that points to the same blocks as another one" is true, because I believe it's the inode that stores the link count.
< 1273869942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm probably
< 1273869948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they have the same inode number
< 1273869950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc
< 1273869965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep test shows they get same inode number (regular file)
< 1273870003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"POSIX.1-2001 says that link() should dereference oldpath if it is a symbolic link.  However, since kernel 2.0, Linux does not do so: if oldpath is a symbolic link, then newpath is created  as  a (hard)  link  to  the  same  symbolic  link  file (i.e., newpath becomes a symbolic link to the same file that oldpath refers to)."
< 1273870004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1273870012 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also ls here seems to color "link count >1" files differently. If I have noticed this before, I've forgotten.
< 1273870034 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, not here, but then ls on my laptop and desktop follow slightly different rules sometimes
< 1273870045 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very distro dependant I think
< 1273870062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"POSIX.1-2008 changes the specification of link(), making it implementation-dependent whether or not oldpath is dereferenced if it is a symbolic link."
< 1273870064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1273870225 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dircolors --print-database says "HARDLINK 44;37 # regular file with more than one link", so it at least provides a possibility to colorize it differently.
< 1273870270 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also sockets and doors have the same color here. Not that I'm very likely to run across a door.
< 1273870312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw wonderful word "a nondirectory"
< 1273870322 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from path_resolution(7)
< 1273870326 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One thing I absolutely *despise* about Wikipedia's new design.
< 1273870344 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They changed the search box location?
< 1273870346 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273870351 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, oh don't get me started on google's new design
< 1273870353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is just as bad
< 1273870354 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have an uncacheable Javascript file in the head of the file.
< 1273870365 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That takes *forever* to load.
< 1273870367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what on earth for?
< 1273870373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it is fast here
< 1273870377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I use noscript
< 1273870386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't think I allowed scripts on wp
< 1273870415 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, wait, those are cachable. What *else* is it that's taking forever?
< 1273870423 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: If you have an account you can change it back to the old Monobook skin.
< 1273870452 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Oh, so I have an excuse to log in.
< 1273870453 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273870462 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shall log in and purge that
< 1273870476 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wikistalks pikhq
< 1273870520 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like Wikipedia never considered that some people have high-latency Internet.
< 1273870596 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, why do you use Satellite?
< 1273870616 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The alternatives are worse.
< 1273870620 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273870635 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would die with high-latency Internet
< 1273870653 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would you prefer a modem?
< 1273870655 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1translate Kesyyntymisen alkuaikoina koirasta on ollut hyĂ¶tyĂ¤ varoittavana vahtina sekĂ¤ jĂ¤tteensyĂ¶jĂ¤nĂ¤.
< 1273870661 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because that's the alternative.
< 1273870665 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's wrong with modems...?
< 1273870667 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate Kesyyntymisen alkuaikoina koirasta on ollut hyĂ¶tyĂ¤ varoittavana vahtina sekĂ¤ jĂ¤tteensyĂ¶jĂ¤nĂ¤.
< 1273870673 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The early days of domestication, dogs have been useful as well as a warning vahtina jĂ¤tteensyĂ¶jĂ¤nĂ¤.
< 1273870689 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vahtina == as a guard
< 1273870696 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-243-203-60.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273870697 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jĂ¤tteensyĂ¶jĂ¤nĂ¤ == as a garbage eater
< 1273870703 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Close enough otherwise.
< 1273870708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, how fast modem?
< 1273870712 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods.
< 1273870720 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 30k, normally.
< 1273870725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, not 56k?
< 1273870728 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Web designers are assholes.
< 1273870730 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: do you live in a rural place, then?
< 1273870733 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Too much line noise.
< 1273870735 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Yes.
< 1273870744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, anyway, way faster than what I had in 1996 or so. which was ~28k
< 1273870757 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. In '96 people didnt'
< 1273870764 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't make megabyte-sized pages.
< 1273870779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1273870786 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, megabyte? that is small ;P
< 1273870797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(though more would be annoying over internet)
< 1273870805 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah.
< 1273870806 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feel free to run an Ethernet cable to my house and leech.
< 1273870831 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, logging into Wikipedia *really* makes Wikipedia go faster.
< 1273870840 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fucking AJAX.
< 1273870859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does cf. stand for in English exactly? I know how it is used but not what the letters stand for
< 1273870863 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, now I want to go to a rural area and figure out a way to get good Internet.
< 1273870864 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even Google's AJAX stuff isn't as bad. At least their Javascript gets *cached*.
< 1273870866 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No idea.
< 1273870868 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :confer
< 1273870868 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :confer?
< 1273870879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in "see also" or "compare"
< 1273870883 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means "compare", but I don't know what it stands for either
< 1273870883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a reference
< 1273870887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah
< 1273870892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, is that a real word?
< 1273870899 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes
< 1273870901 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like "confer" is a Latin word meaning "compare".
< 1273870903 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION needs to watch Ashes To Ashes.
< 1273870905 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also an English word meaning something else.
< 1273870906 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In that meaning, it's archaic, though
< 1273870911 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Murder the phone company execs who *pocketed* the money that was given to them in order to let them offer good Internet in rural areas.
< 1273870916 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looking it up, it does stand for "confer", which is Latin for "compare"
< 1273870923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Definitions of confer on the Web:
< 1273870923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    * have a conference in order to talk something over; "We conferred about a plan of action"
< 1273870923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    * present; "The university conferred a degree on its most famous former student, who never graduated"; "bestow an honor on someone"
< 1273870923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :      wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn"
< 1273870923 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than the English "confer" which means something quite different
< 1273870927 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It means compare in English as well, just hasn't been used with that meaning for some hundreds of years
< 1273870927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something fails there
< 1273870942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah
< 1273870956 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: well, how will that help?  :P
< 1273870961 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WE GAVE THEM 200 FUCKING BILLION DOLLARS IN ORDER TO GET FIBER ALMOST EVERYWHERE IN THE 90S. AND DAMMIT I WANT MY 100 MEGABIT INTERNET.
< 1273870962 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100423140709]
< 1273870972 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You're the "almost".
< 1273870979 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the English word "confer" tends to be mostly used in quiz shows, talking about whether contestants are allowed to talk to team-mates before answering
< 1273870990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, heh
< 1273870990 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: No, I'm the "few hundred feet too far to get DSL".
< 1273871002 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's "almost".
< 1273871015 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, "almost everybody can get DSL".
< 1273871027 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that's not what we paid for.
< 1273871041 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We paid for Japan's infrastructure and got this piece of crap.
< 1273871054 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there another person within a few hundred feet of you who has DSL who you could get some Internet from?
< 1273871059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait? paid for japan?
< 1273871064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what do you mean?
< 1273871074 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Equivalent to Japan's current infrastructure.
< 1273871080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1273871085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :japan is smaller
< 1273871086 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :than US
< 1273871096 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1273871096 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1273871121 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you'll note, $200 billion is a ton of money.
< 1273871143 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`calc 200 billion USD / 1 ton
< 1273871145 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(200 billion U.S. dollars) / (1 short ton) = 220 462 262 U.S. Dollars / kg
< 1273871162 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, how do we know that the phone company guys simply pocketed the money?
< 1273871175 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`calc 1 ton / 200 billion USD
< 1273871177 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1 short ton) / (200 billion U.S. dollars) = 4.5359237 × 10^-9 kg / U.S. Dollar
< 1273871195 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i _say_ you're overestimating a bit
< 1273871210 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Hahah.
< 1273871228 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Because they say as much.
< 1273871270 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have nearly zero competition here. And nearly zero incentive to improve anything.
< 1273871283 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: so where do they say that?
< 1273871385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`convert 1 ton to USD
< 1273871386 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1273871393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run type convert
< 1273871394 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1273871397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :??
< 1273871398 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm wait that's underestimating
< 1273871401 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run which convert
< 1273871402 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1273871409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay that is weird
< 1273871421 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: there is no command called convert.
< 1273871431 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, it would give an error
< 1273871437 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`lasdhgopaehfoieesjf
< 1273871438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run type convert 2>&1
< 1273871438 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1273871439 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/bin/bash: line 1: type: convert: not found
< 1273871441 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha
< 1273871450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so stderr went into void
< 1273871458 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, that's what it does.
< 1273871476 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it bit the bucket
< 1273871503 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait a minute
< 1273871508 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a rather excellent pun.
< 1273871524 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alas it's also mixing metaphors
< 1273871539 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not only is it a cross between "bit the dust" and "kicked the bucket", but it also refers to the "bit bucket", a place where information goes to die.
< 1273871579 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273871634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1273871665 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, but it didn't bucket the bits  :(
< 1273871674 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273871950 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, we can all agree that C is practically Turing-complete.  Is it still practically Turing-complete without malloc?
< 1273871966 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, C is not Turing-complete.
< 1273871972 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said "practically".
< 1273871996 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. It still has finite memory and is thus not Turing-complete.
< 1273872001 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said "practically".
< 1273872014 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then just use a large global array :)
< 1273872022 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's about as stupid as saying "the reals are practically computable".
< 1273872031 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah, I guess that works.
< 1273872035 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But anyways. malloc can be written in pure C.
< 1273872039 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just need a very large array.
< 1273872048 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How?
< 1273872059 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.  Right.
< 1273872064 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have a very large array.
< 1273872072 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You use this as the heap for your malloc implementation.
< 1273872074 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bam.
< 1273872076 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods.
< 1273872102 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if you didn't have arrays?
< 1273872113 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or if they were limited in size.
< 1273872124 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Then* you're reduced to using the stack for allocation.
< 1273872176 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is necessarily finite, but only about as much as the rest of memory in C. Most implementations limit it further.)
< 1273872355 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273872639 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does having to use the stack for allocation really interfere with flow control?
< 1273872653 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, control flow?
< 1273872671 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well to allocate more memory you need to do a call that never returns...
< 1273872699 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means essentially using continuation passing style afaict
< 1273872709 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty much.
< 1273872710 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah.  And how difficult is CPS in C?
< 1273872722 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, not that hard.
< 1273872746 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tedious, but not hard.
< 1273872765 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As you have function pointers, and can manually pass the environment around.
< 1273872911 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you use a function pointer?
< 1273872926 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just dereference it?
< 1273872932 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just call it.
< 1273872982 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's say you have a void (*foo)(void). To call foo, you just do: foo();
< 1273872994 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods.
< 1273873395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from man pts(4): "Pseudo-terminals can also be used to send input to programs that normally refuse to read input from pipes (such as su(1), and passwd(1))."
< 1273873404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, why, if it is so easy to work around
< 1273873412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, what is the point of them refusing pipes
< 1273873553 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1273873559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another wtf: "The behavior of grantpt() is unspecified if a signal handler is installed to catch SIGCHLD signals."
< 1273873614 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, for su(1), it's clear enough.
< 1273873622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, oh?
< 1273873639 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably to make it impossible for the password to be echoed?
< 1273873658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ah that could be
< 1273873686 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273873692 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I do foo | su -c bar | baz, I want foo's output to go to bar, not be interpreted as a password.
< 1273873703 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, that sounds useful for Normish.. if Normish weren't dying
< 1273873709 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also true.
< 1273873709 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, ?
< 1273873713 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what does?
< 1273873714 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably it's for avoiding stupid mistakes, rather than deliberate attempts to manipulate it
< 1273873727 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The pseudo-terminal to send input to passwd
< 1273873735 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So we could have a working addplayer
< 1273873739 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods.
< 1273873753 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't adduser have an option to set the password at random and send it somewhere?
< 1273873754 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, please save Normish kthx
< 1273873759 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or am I thinking of the GUI version?
< 1273873778 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, some adduser/useradd have that
< 1273873802 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is funny how I have both adduser and useradd on my system
< 1273873816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :different programs
< 1273873819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :different options
< 1273873853 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adduser is the friendly one, useradd is the unfriendly one.
< 1273873855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1273873860 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adduser is the P one, useradd is the V one.  :P
< 1273873861 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adduser is a bash script here
< 1273873867 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, P? V?
< 1273873892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it is a bash script on arch and a perl script on ubuntu
< 1273873916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :useradd is an ELF on both
< 1273873983 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P refers to things that are designed to be easy to use.  V refers to things that are designed to be easy to implement.
< 1273874002 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Examples of P programming languages are Python, Perl, and PHP.  Examples of V programming languages are Verilog and VHDL.
< 1273874021 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1273874027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, what about C++? It is neither
< 1273874034 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1273874061 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Verilog?
< 1273874063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, also I doubt implementing VHDL or Verilog synthesis is easy at all
< 1273874070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, a HDL
< 1273874076 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know very little about C++.
< 1273874076 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh
< 1273874097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, well I know only a tiny bit and it is more than I want to know
< 1273874117 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Verilog is like VHDL, except that the language itself is designed well, rather than simply tolerating good design.  :P
< 1273874128 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Take C++. Add poorly-implemented features.
< 1273874132 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. Sorry.
< 1273874136 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You start with C.
< 1273874141 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: no, that's SystemC
< 1273874145 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You then go into a loop with that body.
< 1273874159 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is orders of magnitude stupider than either Verilog or VHDL
< 1273874185 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: C++ has a Turing-complete type system and the C preprocessor for metaprogramming options.
< 1273874209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, hehe
< 1273874235 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one thing that annoys me about VHDL is it doesn't allow recursion in the preprocessor
< 1273874239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm? do you mean the templates?
< 1273874245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess they are part of the type system
< 1273874246 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, the syntax allows it, but every simulator I know crashes when you try
< 1273874247 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because of this type system, C++ parsing is undecidable.
< 1273874248 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes.
< 1273874274 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's easy to hate C++ if you want to!
< 1273874276 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, it /is/ expressive enough that you can simulate bounded recursion by using a bunch of polynomials in the preprocessor, which is arguably worse
< 1273874280 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: it's easy to hate it anyway
< 1273874285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, but the templates act all preprocessorish, as in, things you would expect worked if it was in compiler instead of preprocessor doesn't work
< 1273874286 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That too.
< 1273874290 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't hate C++ because of an undecidable type system
< 1273874294 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there are other reasons to dislike it
< 1273874296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, like implementation outside header
< 1273874297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on
< 1273874298 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1273874318 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, C++ types are Turing-complete?
< 1273874321 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds like a feature
< 1273874326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, does VHDL have a preprocessor?
< 1273874327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1273874330 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: *Unintentionally so*.
< 1273874340 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, depending on your opinion, pretty much the entire language is a preprocessor
< 1273874341 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Example, please/
< 1273874344 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm thinking of for-generate loops
< 1273874354 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I consider a preprocessor, based on what they actually do
< 1273874357 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: template <typename T> struct foo { ... };
< 1273874366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah
< 1273874372 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is equivalent to the following Haskell statement: foo t = ...
< 1273874373 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, for loops, except they're semantically unrolled rather than semantically being repetition
< 1273874404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what would you use recursion for there? I haven't used it but I imagine it would be useful to make stuff like n-bit adders from full adders or such
< 1273874415 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :combined with generics or such
< 1273874417 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mergesort
< 1273874424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1273874426 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, how do you do Factorials in C++ type system?
< 1273874428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, sorting network?
< 1273874430 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1273874432 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's scarily fast
< 1273874436 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O(log n) time, O(n) space
< 1273874442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice
< 1273874477 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :template <int N> struct Factorial {enum { value = N * Factorial<N - 1>::value };};template <>struct Factorial<0>{enum { value = 0};};template<>struct Factorial<1>{enum {value = 1};};
< 1273874478 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, couldn't you make a perfect sorting network? I mean, just write a huge Karnaugh diagram for all possible inputs or something XD
< 1273874493 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes, you can get O(1) time for sorting in hardware if you really really want to
< 1273874499 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the pattern matching works the opposite of what you'd expect.
< 1273874500 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the space term is so horrible I don't want to imagine it
< 1273874516 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and of course, it only works for an input of given size)
< 1273874520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, for something like 4 inputs it couldn't be too bad?
< 1273874531 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O(n(!)^n)
< 1273874540 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There, that should grow fast enough.
< 1273874556 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: depends on how wide the inputs are
< 1273874558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, size of that O(1) sort?
< 1273874562 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ metaprogramming should, IMO, be commented with the equivalent Haskell.
< 1273874567 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other thing to mention is that there's no such thing as a hardware comparison sort
< 1273874574 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you have to know the bounds of the data type to be able to implement them
< 1273874576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well I meant 4 input bits split into equal sizes
< 1273874579 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: an upper bound thereon.
< 1273874581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably two bits each
< 1273874585 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, that sorts rather trivially
< 1273874593 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, hm n(!)?
< 1273874596 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this case: factorial 0 = 0;factorial 1 = 1;factorial n = n * factorial (n-1)
< 1273874601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, that notation doesn't make sense to me
< 1273874603 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(!)^n means "factorial n times".
< 1273874606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1273874608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay
< 1273874615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is quite bad
< 1273874624 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So for 1, it's 1!; for 2, it's 2!! (to slightly abuse notation); for 3, it's 3!!!, and so on.
< 1273874642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what are the gates you use in a sorting network btw, you need something clocked I assume?
< 1273874655 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, it was done synchronously
< 1273874666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not need as such, presumably you could do it async
< 1273874670 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and built out of serial 2-input sorters
< 1273874692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm? I don't think I'm familiar with that
< 1273874698 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Verilog FOSS?
< 1273874701 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, they aren't a standard component
< 1273874705 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it's a programming language
< 1273874710 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might as well say "is C FOSS"?
< 1273874725 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for whether there are FOSS implementations, I'm not sure
< 1273874737 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have one.
< 1273874738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :verilog have more FOSS implementations than VHDL
< 1273874740 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it seems likely that there are no completely-FOSS Verilog/VHDL synthesizers
< 1273874744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I looked around recently
< 1273874746 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night
< 1273874751 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is for FPGA at least
< 1273874775 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there something that compiles Verilog into a circuit diagram?  :P
< 1273874789 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A circuit diagram consisting only of transistors!
< 1273874797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :electric (EDA for ICs) supports some limited VHDL for generating substrate layout (or whatever it was called)
< 1273874804 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: the expensive synthesizers can synthesize for FPGA, then translate back into a circuit diagram
< 1273874811 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not entirely sure why you'd want to do that
< 1273874812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not for generating schematics iirc
< 1273874834 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, we should compile Verilog into BBM instead.
< 1273874840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, for making a pretty pic to show those who pay you?
< 1273874844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1273874862 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem, of course, is that BBM is reversible.
< 1273874863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, what is BBM?
< 1273874871 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Billiard Ball Machine.
< 1273874889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah...
< 1273874889 0 :ws!wswieb@akson.sgh.waw.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273874891 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Computing via steel balls hitting blocks and each other.
< 1273874903 0 :ws!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey
< 1273874909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if you could design reversible circuits in VHDL
< 1273874918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ws, hello
< 1273874933 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure you can.  Just make your circuit reversible, and it'll be reversible.
< 1273874942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw did I mention what I planned to do this summer?
< 1273874953 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :write a befunge-93 interpreter in vhdl (or verilog)
< 1273874964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but since I took a VHDL course at uni it will probably be that)
< 1273874971 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1273874979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I don't have any FPGA it will likely be ghdl-tested only
< 1273875004 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Build your circuit out of Toffoli gates.
< 1273875032 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, exactly, can you do that in VHDL, after all it is rather high level often. And I doubt many FPGAs have such gates
< 1273875052 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, a Toffoli gate can easily be described in VHDL.
< 1273875091 0 :mre!~Agent@203.109.161.103 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273875110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, well okay, but will it be synthesised into one. Rather than a combination of other gates
< 1273875150 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think FPGAs never synthesise any gates at all into themselves.
< 1273875154 0 :maedhros777!~michael@c-76-118-245-128.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273875189 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead, they use lookup tables.
< 1273875197 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato: Sorry to bother you, but I was wondering how your method of increasing primes would work with complex zeroes.
< 1273875255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, really?
< 1273875285 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273875289 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah.  The Wikipedia article on FPGAs gives a pretend FPGA architecture; it's like a typical FPGA but simpler.
< 1273875299 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777: Why would there be complex zeroes?
< 1273875305 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not?
< 1273875322 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, hm. Seems wasteful.
< 1273875339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, also what about latches and such
< 1273875340 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Each cell has four inputs, which go into a lookup table, producing one output, which may go through a flip-flop.
< 1273875353 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, you get one lookup table and one flip-flip.
< 1273875357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, what about a latch then? rather than a flip-flop
< 1273875376 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends on what the difference between a latch and a flip-flop is.
< 1273875386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, latch would be async afaik
< 1273875413 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you could construct that easily.  Feed its output back into it as an input, and also have the two other inputs.
< 1273875420 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or however many.
< 1273875422 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And boom, latch.
< 1273875428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, that is still clocked
< 1273875448 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not necessarily, is it?
< 1273875449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can make a flip-flop out of a latch (iirc that is the normal way of doing it) but not the other way around
< 1273875454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1273875460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could built it out of gates though
< 1273875472 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, that's what I'm saying to do.
< 1273875476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two nor with suitable feedback...
< 1273875482 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, any idea how to encode with complex zeroes?
< 1273875491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(would make an SR-latch)
< 1273875501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well so would two nand)
< 1273875523 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do that with a single LUT.
< 1273875562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, hm?
< 1273875571 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can make that SR-latch with a single LUT.
< 1273875581 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it has one bit of state which is also its one bit of output.
< 1273875590 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, well probably if you only have one of the outputs
< 1273875607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need 3 inputs, set/reset/feedback
< 1273875613 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right.
< 1273875625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the classical SR-latch have both "normal" and "inverted" outputs though
< 1273875673 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you'll have to use a second LUT to provide that.
< 1273875679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, well, because it is symmetric which one is which is arbitrary as long as you swap the inputs too
< 1273875685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, or just an inverter
< 1273875692 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, would you have any ideas for complex zeroes?
< 1273875694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait that is a LUT too?
< 1273875712 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An FPGA doesn't let you use "just an inverter"; all you get is LUTs and flip-flops, more or less.
< 1273875729 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, how's this for a Toffoli gate?  http://pastebin.com/HFZNVdc1
< 1273875755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, verilog?
< 1273875758 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no clue
< 1273875775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know verilog, only VHDL (and only basic VHDL so far)
< 1273875807 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it can't be very much different from VHDL.
< 1273875823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well true, somewhat different syntax
< 1273875832 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're basically the same lang with different syntax
< 1273875844 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they were originally rather different, but they each stole features from the other until they became basically identical
< 1273875861 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they're still doing it; if something becomes standard in Verilog, it tends to go into the next version of the VHDL standard, and vice versa
< 1273875870 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone here know how complex zeroes can be encoded in a function so that their order is distinct?
< 1273875892 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777: what are we trying to do, here?
< 1273875898 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Polynomial
< 1273875906 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm creating an esolang
< 1273875933 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reals are encoded by increasing primes, but i'm not sure what to do about complex zeroes
< 1273875939 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~chatzilla@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273875946 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The specification isn't really finished
< 1273875966 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Polynomial program is of the form f(x) = 3x^2 + x + 7, where the polynomial begins with "f(x) = "
< 1273875968 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WUT?
< 1273875981 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon, shush.  :P
< 1273875985 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That function doesn't do anything :)
< 1273875985 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reminds me a bit of http://esolangs.org/wiki/Formula
< 1273876002 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that looks interesting
< 1273876010 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :different, but related
< 1273876012 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1273876019 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wondering about just editing it into the see also of your article
< 1273876027 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feel free
< 1273876033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, I think this would work for vhdl http://sprunge.us/YMcO
< 1273876056 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: looks right.
< 1273876065 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone have any ideas for complex zeroes?
< 1273876071 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777: I'm looking.
< 1273876075 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok
< 1273876077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, that verilog looks like a process what with the "always" thingy?
< 1273876080 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that article needs categories while it's at it
< 1273876085 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep
< 1273876088 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777: what year did the language first become public? this one?
< 1273876089 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll do that
< 1273876100 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm making it now
< 1273876100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, oh and can't you have multiple architectures in verilog?
< 1273876100 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I guess Verilog doesn't let you constantly execute something; "always" means "whenever", and "*" means "something changes".
< 1273876109 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I guess 2010 :)
< 1273876126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, well my VHDL was async I think?
< 1273876147 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I guess an "architecture" is what you call what Verilog calls modules.
< 1273876163 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777: Maybe use newton to try to find one (start from complex number), then when found, divide it out and do the same again until you get constant function...
< 1273876164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, you can have multiple implementations of the same entity
< 1273876174 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, that is what the architecture means
< 1273876182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, the entity is more like a module.
< 1273876184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think
< 1273876190 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: oh, how does that work?
< 1273876198 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros: There's a crapload of stuff on ordering multiple numbers in the logs from a few weeks ago.
< 1273876203 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you could use that?
< 1273876208 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where?
< 1273876215 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, the entity defines the "outside" appearance. The architecture what is done
< 1273876234 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777: cats added, tweak at will
< 1273876238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, iirc you can select which architecture to use, it defaults to one of them (forgot which, ask ais)
< 1273876243 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: What would I be trying to find from the complex number?
< 1273876244 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777: If all coefficients are real, you can divide complex roots in pairs and keep the function as real.
< 1273876263 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you mean?
< 1273876270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, iirc part of the reason may be one is only possible to simulate and not to synthesise or such.
< 1273876278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least that is one reason I heard
< 1273876282 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh.
< 1273876287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais mentioned some other ones iirc
< 1273876306 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, first time I've ever had an edit conflict on Esolang
< 1273876309 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cats actually added this time
< 1273876322 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, well, if you use console IO it probably makes a good test bench but not so good FPGA ;P
< 1273876350 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777: I find the "we might be tempted to deduce" slightly offensive.  :P
< 1273876359 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh :)
< 1273876367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, but yeah, ask ais523 about why you want multiple architectures
< 1273876389 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: basically, because of the hugely closed nature of most FPGA ecosystems
< 1273876402 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I have a cat in this box.  You might be tempted to deduce that this box contains a cat.  But actually, by 'in', I meant 'on top of'!"
< 1273876405 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"better" architectures are more expensive than worse ones
< 1273876418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and that XD
< 1273876420 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: =D
< 1273876423 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: heh, "in" and "on top of" are the same word in Latin
< 1273876444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that sounds awkward
< 1273876449 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, and the Spanish word "en" means both as well.
< 1273876457 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can normally tell from context.
< 1273876458 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777: Like x^3 - x^2 + x - 1 = 0. x = i is solution, so you can divide by (x - i)(x + i) = x^2 + 1 to get x - 1.
< 1273876466 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it isn't hard to imagine situations were it would be unclear which is meant and doing it wrong would be rather irritating
< 1273876492 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Why would you divide, though? Because some language statements involve complex zeroes
< 1273876507 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: there's a reason why the ancient Romans normally used Greek for discussions about science
< 1273876521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, XD
< 1273876526 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777: you can still divide complex zeros out.
< 1273876533 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777: Ensures that root finding won't find that root again.
< 1273876544 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless, of course, it was a double root.
< 1273876555 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777: And you also see if there are higher-order roots.
< 1273876566 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But how will you know which order the complex zeroes are in?
< 1273876573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<uorygl> Hmm, and the Spanish word "en" means both as well. <-- insert obvious joke with regards to Spanish economy
< 1273876576 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777: You can't.
< 1273876588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at least i hope it is obvious)
< 1273876597 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have any suggestions, then?
< 1273876604 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the Newton's method idea.  Start at 0, see which root you find; that's the first one you execute.
< 1273876605 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was using increasing primes for reals
< 1273876611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the placed the money on top of the bank instead in it, see not strange they have financial problems!)
< 1273876620 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm..maybe I'll do that
< 1273876621 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see,*
< 1273876649 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that limits programs from executing in different order
< 1273876664 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777: I notice that all the language does is start with a number and perform a series of operations on it.
< 1273876669 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep
< 1273876670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777, do the roots have some well defined order at all?
< 1273876674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean in math in general
< 1273876682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for polynomials)
< 1273876684 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what you mean.
< 1273876686 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yeah.  Esoteric programming languages limit you.  :)
< 1273876689 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, they don't.
< 1273876695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, right
< 1273876734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you could order any roots anywhere, just do something like order numerically by real, then imaginary. Or write it down and use the ascii value
< 1273876736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever
< 1273876748 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right.
< 1273876752 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you mean by the latter method?
< 1273876794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777, "3+4.2i" == 51,43,52,46,50,105
< 1273876807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least that is what converting it in erlang told me
< 1273876818 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why, though?
< 1273876836 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273876840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you limit yourself to ASCII you can get a number from it that is 6 bytes
< 1273876848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777, well you can sort by that
< 1273876856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get a well defined ordering of the numbers
< 1273876857 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sort by ASCII values?
< 1273876860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a good method of course
< 1273876866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777, it is possible
< 1273876874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't say it was useful
< 1273876874 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's not really well-defined.
< 1273876881 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suppose the real part is nonterminating.
< 1273876894 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's all in integers
< 1273876899 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I guess it's obvious enough how to fix that.
< 1273876901 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, bah, double isn't infinite precision ;P
< 1273876918 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All complex numbers are Gaussian in Polynomial
< 1273876941 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sure, sorting numerically by real then imaginary is probably saner
< 1273876952 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if you have a number with multiple decimal expansions?  :P
< 1273876958 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Limiting...but I may have no other choice.
< 1273876969 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, "undefined behaviour"
< 1273876980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it is fun combining math with engineering)
< 1273876984 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well-defined and undefined are mutually exclusive concepts.  :)
< 1273876987 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(neither profession will like it)
< 1273877004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777, what is it you are trying to accomplish though
< 1273877014 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Order of statements
< 1273877023 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Being as limitless as possible
< 1273877036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777, so what is the language in question
< 1273877037 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something similar to the ascending primes idea
< 1273877045 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Polynomial
< 1273877048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777, also just add a line number then. Like BASIC
< 1273877048 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you could sort anti-clockwise?
< 1273877056 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then by distance from the origin?
< 1273877063 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh...
< 1273877068 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777: why not just write in a list of numbers? why go via polynomials
< 1273877069 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean in the complex plane?
< 1273877089 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon, this is #esoteric, that's why
< 1273877094 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: Because polynomials are cool :)
< 1273877095 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273877132 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: interesting idea, maybe I'll do that
< 1273877164 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because if I did it by order of a in a + bi, everything might be screwed up
< 1273877170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777, why not in the order written in the program?
< 1273877176 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really wish people would stop that
< 1273877180 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a polynomial
< 1273877184 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's my esoteric programming language: http://pastebin.com/cmLyEHJM
< 1273877189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon, stop what?
< 1273877242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, Newtons method is numerical?
< 1273877246 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes
< 1273877251 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there may be more than one Newton's method
< 1273877256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for different field of math
< 1273877257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure
< 1273877257 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Newton's method is numerical, yes, but too bad.
< 1273877266 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recall only one Newton's method.
< 1273877266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, how many iterations then?
< 1273877283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, the one I remember was related to differentiation?
< 1273877296 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enough that you're absolutely certain of which root it's approaching.
< 1273877297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't remember details
< 1273877304 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Newton's method does involve differentiation, yes.
< 1273877316 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1273877655 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I could use the ascending primes method with b in a + bi
< 1273877693 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :b can't be too large because there are certain set possible values of b, so that might work
< 1273877715 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only problem would be with i and 2i (output and input)
< 1273877815 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any ideas for i and 2i (the special cases)?
< 1273877835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777, can't b be any integer?
< 1273877840 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777: sorry, I don't know what you're trying to get across.
< 1273877843 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep
< 1273877852 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does the ascending primes method even work with a + bi?
< 1273877871 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(2 - 3i) -> (2 - 2^3 * i)
< 1273877877 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc.
< 1273877900 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mm.
< 1273877920 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good thing b can't be too big, though
< 1273877926 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, i becomes 2^1 * i and 2i becomes 2^2 * i?
< 1273877932 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see a problem there.
< 1273877945 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you're right
< 1273877948 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Silly me :)
< 1273877954 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks for your help!
< 1273877972 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm off to change the wiki page for Polynomial now
< 1273877975 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273877978 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must admit I prefer my language, though.  :P
< 1273877995 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've made an algorithm
< 1273878008 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :programming language
< 1273878009 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the input is two numbers, the output is a binary sequence
< 1273878020 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :based on which paths are taking in the GCD algorithm
< 1273878050 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the binary sequence is used to train (good/bad) an AI what to do
< 1273878083 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exciting.
< 1273878088 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the AI is only allowed to communicate to the outside world using pictures downloaded from the internet
< 1273878099 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so that it can't trick you to let it out)
< 1273878114 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: I don't see why that restriction would matter much
< 1273878128 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Couldn't it just download pictures of letters?
< 1273878137 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1273878141 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not allowd
< 1273878146 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you disallow it?
< 1273878147 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing that looks like a letter
< 1273878152 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an AI
< 1273878156 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it knows the difference
< 1273878166 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but how do you make it heed the difference?
< 1273878188 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can make it heed the difference between a letter and a non-letter, you might as well make it heed the difference between right and wrong.
< 1273878204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, you use a monitor AI to do it XD
< 1273878223 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That could get exciting.  :)
< 1273878234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, an infinite series of AIs
< 1273878238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err turtles I mean
< 1273878246 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh.
< 1273878308 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the monitor AI wouldn't really be able to communicate with the monitored.. no, it could
< 1273878317 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the monitored AI receives "accepted/rejected"
< 1273878327 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The monitored AI wouldn't have to receive those.
< 1273878350 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I changed my mind
< 1273878354 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could just spit out lots of letters, blissfully unaware that they're being rejected.  :)
< 1273878355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good move
< 1273878359 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the binary sequence is LEFT/RIGHT commands for a turtle
< 1273878361 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, mind-changing.
< 1273878380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon, oh so now it can drive around in letter shapes
< 1273878389 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the turtle isn't an AI
< 1273878398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it can still communicate
< 1273878401 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1273878405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also being stabbed by a turtle pen
< 1273878407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... :P
< 1273878421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look those robots can be vicious.
< 1273878422 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Programming languages should not have output, because communication can be used to take over the world.  :)
< 1273878428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, :D
< 1273878599 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: There should be a single output for all computers.
< 1273878606 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A single flashing LED, in NORAD.
< 1273878637 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't know if he should be excited or upset about tomorrow
< 1273878656 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :????
< 1273878659 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should probably be excited, since it's probably not a school-required thing.
< 1273878664 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exciting: Major marriage in a webcomic (although there's now a cold feet issue). Upsetting: SG-1 will no longer be available
< 1273878671 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_oo
< 1273878675 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O.o
< 1273878719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, NORAD?
< 1273878741 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Air Force base. Underneath a mountain.
< 1273878746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SG-1 available where?
< 1273878748 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, this is what my life is like. The most interesting.. dammit, Internet connection
< 1273878748 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Ex-Chat
< 1273878750 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Designed to survive a nuclear blast.
< 1273878753 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273878758 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, this is what my life is like. The most interesting.. dammit, Internet connection
< 1273878761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, a bit hard to take off what with the mountain on top?
< 1273878762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P
< 1273878792 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Sgeo> Yeah, this is what my life is like. The most interesting.. dammit, Internet connection
< 1273878799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you repeated that
< 1273878804 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh.
< 1273878806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before and after you quit
< 1273878808 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was lagging out
< 1273878813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, "* Sgeo has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)"
< 1273878816 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't think it would be received
< 1273878816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not lag
< 1273878821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a proper QUIT
< 1273878828 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION blinks
< 1273878828 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing about computers is that it's difficult to make them not output via heat and stuff.
< 1273878841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, could be temporary lag spike
< 1273878845 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, I disconnected and reconnected my router
< 1273878848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, you have to wait a bit to be sure
< 1273878849 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: We'll magine.
< 1273878850 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And did a /server
< 1273878856 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Manage, even.
< 1273878859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, see log (topic)
< 1273878863 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did
< 1273878881 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION does not fake connection issues, really!
< 1273878891 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, hulu
< 1273878913 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably something like destroy them if their temperature fluctuates greater than some epsilon.
< 1273878931 0 :augur!~augur@c-68-54-80-152.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273878934 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So they'll be able to determine whether they're destroyed or not.
< 1273878938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, hulu?
< 1273878942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh the tv thing
< 1273878945 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once devised a scheme for ensuring that information doesn't escape something.
< 1273878946 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, so download it all?
< 1273878958 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, you mean, illegally?
< 1273878960 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Yes, so they can send at most one bit. Ever.
< 1273878971 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the contrary, they can do it at a symbolic time.
< 1273878976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, well that is up to you, just tcpdump everything, I guess that isn't legal either then
< 1273878996 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I have time
< 1273878996 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but it's still exactly one bit of output.
< 1273879000 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor space on this computer
< 1273879008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, how would you ensure that?
< 1273879010 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can choose when it's output, that's not exactly one bit of output.
< 1273879030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, couldn't it change the state later to construct a serial stream?
< 1273879036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or would it have a one-off manual reset?
< 1273879055 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: *Destroyed*.
< 1273879061 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, the computer?
< 1273879062 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway.  First, put the thing inside a case it cannot escape from.  Then, submerge it in a tank filled with hot saltwater, with metal filings to keep it from floating to the top or sinking to the bottom.
< 1273879066 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1273879069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ah I see
< 1273879093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, *shrug*
< 1273879106 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Okay, fine. We use a time machine. We erase the computer from existence if its temperature fluctuates.
< 1273879122 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it practical to get effectively free data storage by sticking lots of cheap, low-ish capacity (1-2G) flash drives together in a RAID?
< 1273879132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, but then you will probably kill yourself before you could go back and do so!
< 1273879147 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have a pipe at the bottom that sucks out the filings, making them into an inverted cone shape, so that the thing doesn't float to the sides.  Have the filings detonated alongside a nuclear bomb.
< 1273879156 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: how would that be effectively free?
< 1273879175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah what uorygl said, plus you need card read, lots of them
< 1273879175 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flash drives cost money.
< 1273879181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or alternatively, usb ports
< 1273879181 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have *tonnes* of flash drives lying around my house.
< 1273879193 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, they are handed out for free at conventions and such iirc
< 1273879195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug*
< 1273879213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have some old I got from people who got them at conferences and such and didn't want them
< 1273879221 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, neat.
< 1273879232 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :USB ports may be an issue, but they are very cheap and I have a few already.
< 1273879243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, well 256 MB and 1 GB are the ones I can find atm
< 1273879249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they are slow
< 1273879267 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I have them because my parents are doctors and drug companies are allowed to bribe them)
< 1273879296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, here they aren't allowed to bribe I think
< 1273879301 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should become a doctor so that I get free flash drives.  :P
< 1273879303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it probably still happens
< 1273879326 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there's a cap of ~ÂŁ5.
< 1273879339 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So in the Information Age, flash drives are common.
< 1273879355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck some of the ones I have are also medical related (guy who I got them from works in neuroscience or such... academic, not doctor)
< 1273879365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one says something about ADHD research on it
< 1273879390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 1 GB
< 1273879467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how do you create local variables in VHDL?
< 1273879473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, internal signals?
< 1273879479 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember, but it's possible
< 1273879481 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see, you can get a terabyte SSD for about $3,000...
< 1273879483 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not really very helpful...
< 1273879490 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and both local variables and local signals are possible)
< 1273879492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what? internal signals?
< 1273879498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I know about local signals
< 1273879514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how exactly do vars and signals differ
< 1273879518 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since when is 1GB small? I remember when I was younger, learning about Gigabytes and thinking that that's a LOT
< 1273879537 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can also get a plain old regular terabyte hard drive for $100.  :P
< 1273879539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, that's expensive
< 1273879551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1273879552 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can still remember when the drives were 64M.
< 1273879553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the SSD I meant
< 1273879563 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1273879563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1273879633 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's stupid.  You can buy an encrypted 4 TB hard drive for about $1,500.
< 1273879644 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How difficult would it to put a 1TB drive in a laptop?
< 1273879659 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whereas doing the same with software would be just as effective and way cheaper.
< 1273879713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, buy an encrypted?
< 1273879714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the heck
< 1273879717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you talking about
< 1273879736 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822158093
< 1273879740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, like AES in hardware?
< 1273879744 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep.
< 1273879745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be somewhat faster
< 1273879749 0 :augur!~augur@pool-74-96-13-77.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273879756 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True.
< 1273879763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, but where do you enter passphrase?
< 1273879768 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know.
< 1273879774 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the leading symmetric key cipher?  Twofish?
< 1273879776 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It probably comes with software.
< 1273879820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, don't know. AES isn't too bad
< 1273879837 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think symmetric key ciphers are pretty easy to implement in hardware.  I don't know, though.
< 1273879870 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, using an ordinary processor instead of a cryptoprocessor is not necessarily a good idea.
< 1273879893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, hm?
< 1273879899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, side channel?
< 1273879902 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right.
< 1273879933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, a crypto cpu does add some interesting aspects to the design...
< 1273879952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you couldn't make it async since that would mean widely varying power usage
< 1273879965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, widely varying for sync probably
< 1273880075 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If someone can analyse your CPU's power usage, you're doing something wrong in the first place.
< 1273880149 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :side channel?
< 1273880204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :side channel attack
< 1273880213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try google or wikipedia
< 1273880236 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: side-channel attacks are where you attack the implementation of an algo rather than the algo itself
< 1273880241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, on the other hand you don't want to use more power than required at any point, especially in a laptop
< 1273880249 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like shining a really bright light into a quantum crypto link to try to make it leak extra photons
< 1273880260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that works?
< 1273880282 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on some versions of it, yes
< 1273880292 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is it has nothing to do with the algo at all, it's something they didn't think of
< 1273880303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes but how would it work?
< 1273880320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't it just drown out the single photon?
< 1273880329 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the things use filters to produce photons in the first place, you're trying to guess their settings
< 1273880335 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so instead of one photon, you get, say, 20 all the same
< 1273880342 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can measure 19 of them and let the other one go through the link
< 1273880348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1273880349 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have a pretty good idea what polarisation that 19 had
< 1273880361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you need to modify the sender equipment then
< 1273880370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no?
< 1273880373 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to stop that happening?
< 1273880379 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1273880383 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, to do it.
< 1273880393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, to be able to send more than one such photon?
< 1273880396 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except you don't, you cut the cable and aim a blast of light down it back at the sender
< 1273880402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha
< 1273880404 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some of the photons bounce off the sender and come back
< 1273880411 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :going through the filter in the process
< 1273880412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right that makes sense
< 1273880418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how do you prevent it?
< 1273880425 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273880445 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea, I'm not a quantum cryptographer
< 1273880451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1273880454 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one obvious method is to detect the blast and guess you've been tampered with
< 1273880460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true
< 1273880499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but would that be viable? Quantum + detecting/measuring tends to non-weird results ;P
< 1273880501 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not the only side-channel attack, of course
< 1273880513 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you aren't detecting anything you send at all
< 1273880515 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just things you receive
< 1273880517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1273880524 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can therefore use conventional means to help secure the quantum system
< 1273880562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what are the other side channel attacks apart from compromising the sending/receiving  computer(s)
< 1273880591 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know
< 1273880595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1273880618 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also the possibility of MitMing the entire communication
< 1273880636 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, setting up a separate quantum link to each of the participating people
< 1273880648 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there are known ways to solve that sort of problem (again, I don't know what they are)
< 1273880671 0 :tombom__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1273880689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1273880728 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Calculate the amount of time taken for light to go from point A to point B.  If it takes longer, there's tampering.  :P
< 1273880743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice
< 1273880743 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, it requires your connection to be a straight line!
< 1273880757 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strangely, at the conference I was at recently, there was an entire paper about just that method of securing communication
< 1273880761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, or not, you can calculate for a bent path, no?
< 1273880804 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only if the attacker can't unbend the path.
< 1273880821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, well okay, but I was thinking "transatlantic cable" kind of thing
< 1273880824 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, also: wormholes
< 1273880833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he can shorten the path as needed ;P
< 1273880839 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think wormholes are something we need to worry about for the time being.  :P
< 1273880950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, also time machine to send the bits back in time
< 1273880971 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Likewise.
< 1273881002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night
< 1273883094 0 :augur!~augur@96.231.230.150 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273883180 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: underflow
< 1273883188 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, Finnish.
< 1273883196 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273883197 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate suden kesy jalostettu muoto
< 1273883199 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :processed form of the domesticated wolf
< 1273883219 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's actually a much better translation than what I got last time.
< 1273883274 0 :gm|lap!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273883275 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, "suden" is the genitive of "susi"?  Or is it the accusative?
< 1273883298 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If "kesy" and "suden" have to match case, then I guess it has to be the accusative.
< 1273883308 0 :ws!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: [BX] Outwit. Outplay. Outlast. Survivor BitchX.
< 1273883361 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Muoto" is just the accusative, of course.  How does "jalostettu" come about?  What's that word made of?
< 1273883561 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 Humble Indie Bundle
< 1273883571 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1273884079 0 :augur!~augur@96.231.230.150 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273884087 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273884234 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273884239 0 :myndzi!myndzi@tengototen.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273884321 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: how's HackEgo doing the translating there?
< 1273884397 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using Google Translate.
< 1273884498 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: null
< 1273884565 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1273884669 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pukes
< 1273884867 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1273885271 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1273887127 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273887196 0 :mre!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1273887219 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1273887586 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273887599 0 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273887636 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1273888258 0 :mre!~Agent@203.109.161.103 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273888980 0 :Gregor-L_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: THAT IS NOT THE CORRECT WAY TO MAKE SOUP
< 1273888989 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is not the correct way to puke
< 1273889231 0 :augur!~augur@c-68-54-80-152.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273889556 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-L_: there are a lot of events after which you could say that.
< 1273889588 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1273889603 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, your L got flipped about a 45-degree line and scaled up by a factor of sqrt(2).  How did you do that?
< 1273889615 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-L_: Well, you see, first you stick the dragon in the soup. Then, you put stuff in it. Then, you take out the dragon.
< 1273889629 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: UNDERSCORE
< 1273889646 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where is alise
< 1273889649 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273889651 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :???? they talk to me sometimes
< 1273889669 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise is all the voices in your head.
< 1273889707 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273889834 0 :maedhros777!~michael@c-76-118-245-128.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273889878 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Polynomial
< 1273889884 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look at the hello world :)
< 1273889893 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't realize it would be so huge
< 1273889933 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pardon all the zeroes, I wrote a program to generate trinomials from zeroes and it's not very good yet
< 1273889984 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello!!!!!!!
< 1273890006 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi :)
< 1273890024 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you see the hello world?
< 1273890079 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES
< 1273890089 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's insane
< 1273890116 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried putting it into Wolfram Alpha to get the final result and it didn't have enough space for all the numbers in the search box :)
< 1273890168 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how I'm going to trim down these coefficients
< 1273890199 0 :augur!~augur@c-68-54-80-152.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273890206 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the final coefficients probably overflow all data types in C.
< 1273890213 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Including long long :)
< 1273890217 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use bignums
< 1273890222 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah
< 1273890238 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How will I get the final polynomial of the hello world, though?
< 1273890247 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would take me all day to do it by hand
< 1273890266 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, more like a month, or several years =D
< 1273890284 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should write a program to do that
< 1273890299 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Yes, this is why computers exist.
< 1273890304 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :=D
< 1273890311 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And why we learn C.
< 1273890334 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the way, have you ever used D?
< 1273890347 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HORRORS UPON HORRORS AWAIT YOU
< 1273890355 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it that bad?
< 1273890367 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Language isn't terrible.
< 1273890380 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad language such as swear words
< 1273890384 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The runtime is such a massive bitch to get running.
< 1273890388 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've heard it doesn't have much support, though
< 1273890395 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No IDEs or anything
< 1273890408 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does have two standard libraries, though.
< 1273890420 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273890420 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the syntax from the look of it.
< 1273890430 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe someone should make D++.
< 1273890463 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or E
< 1273890479 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One that has support and good runtime
< 1273890493 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The secret is to not fork the language.
< 1273890500 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you mean?
< 1273890590 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The way I like is a variations of C like this:
< 1273890601 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : x=y;  -->  y@x!
< 1273890608 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What???!!!
< 1273890610 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : *x=*y;  -->  y@@x@!
< 1273890623 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : x=strlen(y);  -->  y strlen;x!
< 1273890624 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so ! is assignment, and @ is derep
< 1273890631 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's postfax
< 1273890643 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And ; is function call operator
< 1273890652 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool
< 1273890657 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Postfax...what kind of language is that?
< 1273890662 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION adds this language to tHE WIZARD
< 1273890673 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is "tHE WIZARD"?
< 1273890684 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 hypothetical langage design wizard
< 1273890691 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK
< 1273890693 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a parody of trendy things like ruby and python and such
< 1273890700 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK
< 1273890701 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically you get a bunch of check boxes and radio buttons
< 1273890710 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you choose things like syntax, evaluation order, .. etc
< 1273890715 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stackoverflow.com/questions/84556/whats-your-favorite-programmer-cartoon
< 1273890716 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it prints out an interpreter for the language
< 1273890750 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the one with the kid's name being a MySQL injection
< 1273890766 0 :Gregor-L_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Gregor-L
< 1273890772 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273890782 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : int main(int argc,char**argv){puts("Hello, world!\n");}  -->  :main(int'argc' char**'argv'--int){"Hello, world!\n"puts;0}
< 1273890786 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Notice that the top one doesn't even print newlines :)
< 1273890814 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have any URL or examples of wizard?
< 1273890899 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1273890915 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: I want to make that!
< 1273890933 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I invented another problem on anarchy golf
< 1273890937 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, at least, to have that.
< 1273890946 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anarchy golf?
< 1273890963 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1273890977 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 - I had written a wiki page about it, but I deleted my wiki
< 1273890992 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777: http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?Count+asterisks+
< 1273891003 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if anyone likes this idea I would love improvements
< 1273891007 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is it?
< 1273891019 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to explain it to ehird but he just ignored me
< 1273891042 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: Without seeing it how can I send improvement?
< 1273891055 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 well the idea is all that exists
< 1273891067 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: What is this site?
< 1273891089 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777: The anarchy golf is a site for codegolf, try to write a short program for the given input/output, there is many program language choices
< 1273891127 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, so the challenge is to write a program that outputs the number of asterisks?
< 1273891130 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't invent that site, but I did post some of the problems
< 1273891140 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's an interesting idea
< 1273891143 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool
< 1273891159 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what do the rankings mean?
< 1273891173 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, how are they ranked?
< 1273891174 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777: Yes, that's it. However, any program that complies with the example input/output is OK, even if it doesn't count the number of asterisks. (If your program is cheating, you can write "(cheat)" after your name)
< 1273891185 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ranking is, 10000 for the shortest program
< 1273891194 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, that's how the "score" is
< 1273891201 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "rank" column is 1 for the shortest program
< 1273891224 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "size" tells how many bytes in the program
< 1273891232 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So people compete for shortest program, lowest time, etc?
< 1273891247 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "statistics" column is binary/alnum/symbol
< 1273891264 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The time is mostly not used. You compete for the shortest program.
< 1273891270 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok
< 1273891272 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The time is available just in case you are interested
< 1273891276 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds cool, I should try it
< 1273891286 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feeling kind of lazy now, though :)
< 1273891297 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can try it. Push "use form" and then you can select the program langage you want, and enter your name in "Your name" field.
< 1273891309 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok
< 1273891319 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, that's a lot of languages
< 1273891336 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it is a binary file you can just upload the file
< 1273891347 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can it be known if a program would work or not?
< 1273891360 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the site have its own compilers?
< 1273891370 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The site does have its own compilers on the execution server
< 1273891375 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a great idea
< 1273891376 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it will tell you if it is success or not
< 1273891385 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, it has brainfuck :)
< 1273891388 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This should all be in a Hackiki :P )
< 1273891401 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has anyone ever made the smallest program for a problem in brainfuck?
< 1273891428 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1273891435 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow :)
< 1273891449 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :once I generated brainfuck programs by size and searched for ones that printed text
< 1273891452 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the statistics, is size measured in bytes?
< 1273891457 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I didn't actually find any interesting text....
< 1273891465 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1273891468 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you meant on the golf
< 1273891470 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can also just make the shortest program in each individual category, and if you post for more than one program language you can have multiple scores
< 1273891472 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't play the golf
< 1273891476 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is measured in bytes
< 1273891493 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So someone made a solution in Flogscript with 2 bytes??!!!
< 1273891497 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of the formats are binary formats.
< 1273891507 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777: Yes.
< 1273891508 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait, it's a cheat
< 1273891521 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The one in Befunge isn't, though
< 1273891525 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Impressive
< 1273891539 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It still might be a cheat.
< 1273891541 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you view the programs they submitted?
< 1273891552 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes the authors did not put "(cheat)" after their name
< 1273891558 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can view the programs at post-mortem time.
< 1273891563 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13day(s) and 23:27:55 before deadline (05/29 10:03:09 JST), all source codes will be revealed after the deadline
< 1273891572 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, ok
< 1273891574 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that means, in 2 weeks you will be able to view the programs.
< 1273891578 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeo
< 1273891584 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops, I meant yep :)
< 1273891595 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You can still post programs after the deadline, but the date will be red in that case)
< 1273891669 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even for ones that are cheats, you can try to figure out how to cheat in that problem! But you can do both cheat and genuine solution. I like to post both cheating and genuine solutions to problems, some other people also like to do so
< 1273891687 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?Palindromic+prime
< 1273891690 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might try that
< 1273891705 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK
< 1273891728 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many palindromic primes are needed?
< 1273891764 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See the example output, that's how many are needed
< 1273891773 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok
< 1273891789 0 :augur!~augur@c-68-54-80-152.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273891867 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm looking at some finished ones, and the smallest code is ugly :)
< 1273891878 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I guess that's necessary to make a small program
< 1273891946 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, a few other hints: "exec is denied" does not apply to shell scripts. The source file name is always "test." and the extension. In interpreted languages, usually the source file will be the only file in the current directory.
< 1273891959 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok
< 1273892000 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm going to die: main() without return type or arguments :) http://golf.shinh.org/reveal.rb?char+pyramid/nn_1271263335&cpp
< 1273892005 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :pikhq
< 1273892026 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777: no arguments is fine... no type is not
< 1273892033 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I know
< 1273892040 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use int main() all the time
< 1273892050 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But just main()...disgusting...
< 1273892061 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C does not actually require the type, the type is assumed "int"
< 1273892067 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If you use the correct compiler parameters)
< 1273892079 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still a gross stain upon the language :)
< 1273892114 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes
< 1273892150 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :public static void main(String[] args)
< 1273892153 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could be worse.
< 1273892157 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the asterisk problem, how is the input generated? i.e. is it with newlines?
< 1273892171 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yay java
< 1273892172 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yeah, Java doesn't even return an int :)
< 1273892186 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you mean, how is the input generated?
< 1273892194 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think there's a System.exit or something
< 1273892197 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Each input is run through the program a separate time.
< 1273892198 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there newlines?
< 1273892210 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are newlines if that is how it is shown
< 1273892225 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok
< 1273892229 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So at the end of each line there will be a newline character.
< 1273892277 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok
< 1273892289 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then EOF at the end?
< 1273892327 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it will be EOF when the end is reached
< 1273892357 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, I get it now
< 1273892408 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :These are also my problems:  http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?Half+Sierpinski  http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?Half+Sierpinski
< 1273892415 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I like the other problems too
< 1273892450 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you think is the function with the least character that reads from standard input?
< 1273892455 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fgets, maybe?
< 1273892475 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably. I don't know for sure but I think so
< 1273892483 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll use that
< 1273892486 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye now
< 1273892501 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273892588 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I won "PrinterOriented Banner" problem even though I did not create that problem
< 1273892654 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I improved JSMIPS' speed today.
< 1273892657 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By a little bit.
< 1273892670 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OHHHH that's what vi is for
< 1273892693 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay z80 still rocks
< 1273892696 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you mean, what's wat vi is for?
< 1273892720 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in anarchy golf
< 1273892763 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but I still don't understand your comment
< 1273892774 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you refering to any specific problem?
< 1273892795 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope
< 1273892805 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?Interpret+Perl+Code <-- the bash ones are kinda obvious
< 1273892816 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it certainly is
< 1273892820 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same deal with zsh + fish
< 1273892829 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, is same zsh and fish even
< 1273892836 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a z80 entry in sight :/
< 1273892870 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Write one if you want to
< 1273893030 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes I write a bit strange solution for "Network mask v2"   http://golf.shinh.org/reveal.rb?Network+mask+v2/zzo38%28file%2Cpostmortem%29_1273244351&zsh
< 1273893030 0 :gm|lap|oops!~gm@121-73-186-186.dsl.telstraclear.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273893097 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-243-203-60.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273893104 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many problems have you gotten best score?
< 1273893168 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they need to add a input-fix mode (I have written the patch already)
< 1273893185 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1273893192 0 :gm|lap|oops!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host
< 1273893192 0 :gm|lap|oops!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273893200 0 :gm|lap|oops!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :gm|lap
< 1273893207 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure
< 1273893219 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1273893527 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273893703 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "Count asterisks" is difficult to make with dc, because if the input difficult, but I still managed to do it. (But this program does not actually count all of the asterisks)
< 1273894653 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
< 1273894719 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273894878 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1273895312 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273895369 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1273895479 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273895507 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1273895556 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1273895558 0 :Gregor-L_!~Gregor@67-129-37-226.dia.static.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273895631 0 :Gregor-L_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Gregor-L
< 1273895642 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Gregor
< 1273896043 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273896419 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273896423 0 :Halph!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273896433 0 :Halph!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :coppro
< 1273899169 0 :augur_!~augur@96.231.216.193 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273899243 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1273899551 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273899650 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273899744 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I am leaving. You are about to explode.
< 1273900059 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1273901009 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't explode yet
< 1273901163 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1273901310 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273901483 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have not yet exploded.
< 1273901556 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants his damned HTTP access back
< 1273901607 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you out of HTTP access?
< 1273901610 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why?
< 1273901612 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Again.
< 1273901617 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A. Fucking. Gain.
< 1273901643 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But why? What happened? What is going wrong?
< 1273901667 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can access IRC and Gopher.
< 1273901673 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? Because my ISP sucks.
< 1273901714 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, look. It's back. It was out for a few hours, but it's back.
< 1273901726 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just like last night.
< 1273901736 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fucking hell I hate this.
< 1273901923 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does FTP and SMTP and POP3 work?
< 1273901932 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, no, and no, respectively.
< 1273901934 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And why does HTTP stop working even though IRC and Gopher continues to work?
< 1273901946 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because fuck you, we have a monopoly.
< 1273901975 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Near as we could conclude last night, I was having an 88% packet loss rate, and IRC was only barely able to work during that.
< 1273902008 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least a lot of my text files are accessible using Gopher protocol!
< 1273902334 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When my internet stops, *all* protocols stop working.
< 1273902351 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's satellite.
< 1273902809 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's almost like they go "What, you were expecting service? Sorry, we're just going to take your money. Much more profitable."
< 1273903086 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd have freaking better Internet access if I went to the Northern Territories of Canada.
< 1273903102 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEY DON'T EVEN HAVE ROADS
< 1273903271 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
< 1273903311 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: soupdragon
< 1273903892 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1273904435 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I noticed the GNU FDL contains something which seems to be in there specifically so that when Wikipedia relicensed all of their files, it would not be a violation of this license.
< 1273904496 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's correct
< 1273904519 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that clause was put in at the behest of the Wikimedia Foundation.
< 1273904535 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As, frankly, the FDL was a terrible choice of license for Wikipedia.
< 1273904611 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273904632 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: well, at the time, there weren't many licenses around
< 1273904643 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True.
< 1273904645 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they picked FDL because it existed, which was a strong benefit over many of the other licenses people have suggested
< 1273904651 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still terrible.
< 1273904654 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's pretty much its only advantage
< 1273904669 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GFDL is good for some things; I used it for the C-INTERCAL manual
< 1273904677 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty much designed for book-style manuals
< 1273904690 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah.
< 1273904696 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's decent for a manual.
< 1273904706 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's *workable* for books.
< 1273904725 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not entirely sure it's *possible* to follow it for a wiki.
< 1273904840 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is, but Wikipedia didn't
< 1273905058 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like command-line version of DigitalMZX Vault?
< 1273905060 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/bB8e9wNY
< 1273905099 0 :Adrian^L_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Adrian^L
< 1273905265 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Adrian^L at 2600?
< 1273905286 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, phalse.2600.COM and 2600.com resolve to the same IP address
< 1273905313 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps you faked it? Or is it proper?
< 1273905513 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reverse DNS resolves to phalse.2600.COM however, it seems
< 1273906392 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found a list of secret services codes
< 1273906398 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I won't tell you right now
< 1273906404 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1273906420 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WELL THEY'RE SECRET, DUH
< 1273906528 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's it
< 1273907136 0 :mre!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1273907275 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you become a threat to society by taking pictures of Secret Service agents in your own office?
< 1273907387 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not see Obama on the list of secret codenames.
< 1273907396 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps because it is secret!
< 1273907406 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the sort of people who think of doing that are possibly threats to society for other reasons
< 1273907489 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that is necessarily the case at all.
< 1273907505 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VERY GOOD ANSWER, CITIZEN AIS523
< 1273907512 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even then, you aren't necessarily deliberately taking pictures of Secret Service agents. It could be automatic due to security cameras and so on.
< 1273907527 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ducks beneath the rock again
< 1273907535 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it comfortable down there?
< 1273907539 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Secret Service might even be a threat to society too, there are reports about such things
< 1273907560 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's a bit cramped, but it does have internet access
< 1273907623 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THERE ARE NO SUCH REPORTS.  ANYONE BELIEVING IN SUCH REPORTS IS A DANGER TO SOCIETY.
< 1273907749 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Unlike me.
< 1273907750 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1273908226 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not finished writing a solitaire card program yet. But it is nearly completed.
< 1273908483 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Why do people think legalizing drugs is The Answer? I thought The Answer was 42.
< 1273908501 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :legalizing 42 drugs, that's the ticket
< 1273908546 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which 42, though?
< 1273908588 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHICHEVER ARE GOOD FOR SOCIETY
< 1273908685 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ilua
< 1273908695 0 :mre!~Agent@203.109.161.103 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273908836 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273908880 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Later
< 1273909250 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273910247 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!run bash
< 1273910257 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!echo hi
< 1273910264 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1273910281 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, so I am still connected
< 1273910399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1273910400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273911508 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273912285 0 :sofia!~pc-2@118.96.179.35 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273912315 0 :sofia!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1273913136 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Bye
< 1273914780 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-2-46.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273916484 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273916940 0 :cheater2!~cheater@ip-80-226-28-177.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273917008 0 :cheater3!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1273917620 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273920350 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273921179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn ais just left :(
< 1273921186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn,*
< 1273921189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, there?
< 1273921205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait you didn't know VHDL did you? Only verilog
< 1273921369 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273922309 0 :mre!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I'll be back
< 1273924540 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273925592 0 :hiato!~fdulu@41-135-6-154.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273926122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, how large does the stack usually become in befunge93?
< 1273926142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, would 2047 entries be enough for all "common" programs?
< 1273926153 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is thinking about befunge93 in VHDL
< 1273926182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dynamic size would be an extreme PITA
< 1273926771 0 :cheater2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1273927150 0 :alise!~alise@91.104.226.164 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273927177 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :flawbatness
< 1273927462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, two possible summer projects that I'm considering: befunge93 in VHDL, befunge93 on Lego Mindstorms
< 1273927468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, opinions?
< 1273927471 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VHDL
< 1273927482 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mindstorms is a fairly regular robotic platform from what i gather. and you can use C
< 1273927484 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so too easy
< 1273927485 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNLESS
< 1273927488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, the lego would be fun too, output would be a flashing lego led
< 1273927488 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each robot was a cell in fungespace
< 1273927494 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they physically walked around
< 1273927498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I only have two RCXes
< 1273927500 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that is the case, that * G_64
< 1273927509 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: eh, 2-celled unefunge
< 1273927511 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who needs more
< 1273927514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1273927546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, but I was thinking of using a flashing LED to output the bits of console output
< 1273927552 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sensors to input 1/0 bits
< 1273927555 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd go for VHDL, because it's so fucking alien
< 1273927559 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it'd be the FASTEST. BEFUNGE-93. EVAR
< 1273927561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, I could do sound!
< 1273927598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, except I don't own an FPGA to test it on, so it would be simulation only (but with the aim to make most synthesiable (sp?) in theory)
< 1273927602 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could do sound with vhdl <3
< 1273927605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the exception would be file loading and console IO
< 1273927612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I could do sound on RCX
< 1273927628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a built in speaker, but I think it is limited to some set of 8 or whatever different beeps
< 1273927631 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's boring
< 1273927633 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even whoring
< 1273927645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, not sure about brickOS... but that needs a gcc 2.95.x cross compiler
< 1273927652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I'm not sure I can even get working nowdays
< 1273927700 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.flickr.com/photos/starsammy/4605760111/sizes/o/in/pool-16135094@N00/ ;; good lord, this is /not/ how recipies should look!
< 1273927701 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                                                       |
< 1273927702 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                                                       |\
< 1273927707 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks myndzi
< 1273927872 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273927918 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.nlm.nih.gov/dreamanatomy/images/1200%20dpi/IV-A-01.jpg
< 1273927935 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/Xf057.jpg ;; translation
< 1273928137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1273928165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> http://www.flickr.com/photos/starsammy/4605760111/sizes/o/in/pool-16135094@N00/ ;; good lord, this is /not/ how recipies should look! <-- wonderful idea
< 1273928171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, just wonderful
< 1273928176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :flow charts!
< 1273928179 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Horrible idea; just horrible.
< 1273928183 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, why
< 1273928210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it makes gooking into engineering, easy to follow
< 1273928210 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Recipes are perfectly fine; obfuscating their clear prose with multi-directional diagrams that leave no obvious order in which cooking should be done and leave out vital details is ridiculous.
< 1273928222 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Recipes /are/ easy to follow.
< 1273928227 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And imagine that diagram for a complicated recipe.
< 1273928228 0 :cheater2!~cheater@ip-80-226-239-38.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273928231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, they need to be bullet lists then
< 1273928236 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would start looking more like fungot's graph.
< 1273928237 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: the diggers must have been enough to fnord and remote farmers who at some period of life appeared to have two sharers of his mysteries; a fnord portuguese fnord from the house and the ancient pain.
< 1273928239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, plus this allows concurrent cooking
< 1273928243 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :English is scalable.
< 1273928271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, plus â†’ is increasing time
< 1273928279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some tasks are concurrent there
< 1273928305 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find those incredibly easy to follow
< 1273928308 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You sing its praises but have you actually taken it on yourself to think of - perhaps even read - the corresponding recipe before deciding that the flowchart is superior?
< 1273928311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the diagrams I mean
< 1273928321 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And now consider a more complicated diagram, and its corresponding recipe. Iterate until you're convinced.
< 1273928324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no where are they?
< 1273928333 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Pardon?
< 1273928340 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, "corresponding recipe"
< 1273928343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where are they?
< 1273928354 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, get out your nearest recipe book.
< 1273928366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah could be a problem
< 1273928368 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google?
< 1273928371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah good idea
< 1273928380 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1273928385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, but there may be different variants of the same recipe?
< 1273928388 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly amateur-written recipes might not be of such good quality, and professional ones may have copyright issues, but I'm sure you'll find something.
< 1273928390 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, yes.
< 1273928393 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't really matter.
< 1273928414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1273928457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay the flow chart isn't perfect, for example it says "mix" but with what? an electric mixer? a wooden ladle?
< 1273928471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the idea isn't fundamentally flawed though
< 1273928485 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now imagine extending that "mix" to have the full information.
< 1273928495 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite horizontally extended, you might say.
< 1273928496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :footnotes? definitions chapter?
< 1273928501 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By which I mean "I hope you like scrolling in two dimensions."
< 1273928502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :multi-row?
< 1273928507 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And good luck /printing/ this.
< 1273928512 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or will you put a computer right next to all your foodery?
< 1273928522 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: So now it's obfuscated English text, cross-referenced.
< 1273928527 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll take simple words.
< 1273928527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes, on the freezer door :P
< 1273928540 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: And jog over to your freezer whenever you complete a step?
< 1273928546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, okay but simply making the arrows wider to allow 2 lines of text would work
< 1273928549 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most people keep cookbooks right next to their working surface.
< 1273928560 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Do that, then replace the arrows with "then". What's lost?
< 1273928570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well okay, computers everywhere. I'm still waiting for the holographic terminals. Oh and the flying cars...
< 1273928580 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the Singularity...
< 1273928584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that
< 1273928630 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it won't matter since we won't have to cook. :P
< 1273928635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good point
< 1273928662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, anyway I think a directed graph would be better. Could also be nicely rendered with graphviz
< 1273928667 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you want to. But then you'll just use your amazing memory to know the entire recipe.
< 1273928715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, the problems with current recipes is that it is hard to keep your location in them, maybe some sort of marker placed on top of the text would help
< 1273928723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you need to check back several times during cooking
< 1273928775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it should be strictly chronological order. It is no good to find that you should have done something else in another beaker 10 minutes before, and during that done the thing described first
< 1273928783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seen that happen
< 1273928801 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, that is simply a badly-written recipe.
< 1273928806 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~chatzilla@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273928809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, most ones are IME
< 1273928817 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most words are badly written.
< 1273928819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, not written for engineers at least
< 1273928827 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What makes you think flowcharts won't be badly made too?
< 1273928837 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cookingforengineers.com/? I've never used it, mind.
< 1273928841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good point
< 1273928846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks
< 1273928887 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah! I thought someone else had invented ginger jam before me, but it is savoury!
< 1273928896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't seem too different from normal
< 1273928897 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I am the first to produce a substance that will turn a Rich Tea into a Ginger Nut!
< 1273928904 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've commonly had rhubarb and ginger jam!
< 1273928917 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's certainly more precise.
< 1273928918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ginger jam? sounds familiar
< 1273928925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, to some extent yes
< 1273928927 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it seems people use the term to mean something you'd put on meat.
< 1273928935 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But nothing! Nothing! That will turn a Rich Tea into a Ginger Nut!
< 1273928936 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, at least no "add salt until it tates good"
< 1273928939 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am the sole innovator in this area!
< 1273928954 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rich Teas are disgusting.
< 1273928956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no I seem ginger jam on toast
< 1273928956 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "I don't like putting hot items into my refrigerator, so I like to use an aluminum half sheet pan as a heat sink."
< 1273928959 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Die.
< 1273928961 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Shit.
< 1273928962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't like it myself
< 1273928969 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't like ginger at all in fact
< 1273928970 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is quite spicy. But it was nice on biscuits.
< 1273928976 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was sweet and all.
< 1273928979 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: They're bland and useless for dunking!
< 1273928988 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, :D
< 1273928992 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about the heat sink
< 1273928995 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I quite like them dunked. They're no more bland than Digestives.
< 1273929003 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273929003 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway.
< 1273929016 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Recipe for ginger jam - so imprecise that AnMaster will cry -:
< 1273929033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, however, what about stuff like "fry the bacon", how do you know when to stop? In most recipes it doesn't seem to give an exact time
< 1273929036 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Put a little bit of ground ginger into a mixing bowl. Add water until it is not opaque; a bit more than 50% opaque.
< 1273929037 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mix.
< 1273929041 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I beg to differ. They have so little structure that they disintegrate when you hold them in the steam.
< 1273929041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus that would vary anyway
< 1273929046 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Add about two-to-three slightly-more-than-teaspoons of sugar.
< 1273929047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need some good measurement for that stuff
< 1273929048 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mix.
< 1273929050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no?
< 1273929055 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Put in a pan. Gas Mark 5 or so.
< 1273929058 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here comes the imprecise bit
< 1273929068 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every now and then, add about 1/3 of a tablespoon of cornflour.
< 1273929072 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And some sugar to offset its taste.
< 1273929073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what is gas mark 5 on an electric stove?
< 1273929073 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mix.
< 1273929083 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait until the sugar explodes^Wcaramelises.
< 1273929086 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Take off the hob.
< 1273929088 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Leave for a minute.
< 1273929091 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tada, a little bit of ginger jam!
< 1273929099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we don't have gas stoves in Sweden. Well we probably do but extremely rare
< 1273929100 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scale up to make something that'll actually cover two slices of toast... IF YOU DARE.
< 1273929105 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it starts boiling you've done something wrong.
< 1273929116 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yeah I don't know actually, I did this at the unit out of extreme boredom
< 1273929122 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't have a gas stove here I don't think
< 1273929134 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, it produces something quite nice. Very sweet obviously.
< 1273929147 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I swear, spread it on a Rich Tea and it tastes like a Ginger Nut. Or your money back.
< 1273929149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably in stuff like mobile units like at campings
< 1273929154 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever you call them
< 1273929165 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Electric stoves tend to be so, so slow to heat up!
< 1273929167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :smaller than mobile home units towed by a normal car
< 1273929172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, maybe *shrug*
< 1273929186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> Every now and then, add about 1/3 of a tablespoon of cornflour. <-- how often
< 1273929190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this IS TO IMPRECISE!
< 1273929192 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every now and then.
< 1273929193 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*TOO
< 1273929197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TOO yes
< 1273929202 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically when you notice "no this is very runny".
< 1273929212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, how do we define "very runny"?
< 1273929212 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It shouldn't be thick though. The huge explosion of the sugar makes it thick.
< 1273929220 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Like it's only slightly thicker than pure water.
< 1273929227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how slightly?
< 1273929229 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/
< 1273929233 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thingy.
< 1273929237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, see why I have problems with recipes?
< 1273929248 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I would have written it down but this was the first time I'd done it.
< 1273929255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm okay
< 1273929256 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it was basically, you know, "oh fuck it let's add some more".
< 1273929261 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sage takes up ~1.4GB.
< 1273929263 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why?
< 1273929269 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Because.
< 1273929273 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, also how much sugar is required to offset the taste?
< 1273929289 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: About half a slightly-bigger-than-teaspoon (a slightly-bigger-than-teaspoon is one of those plastic spoon things.)
< 1273929291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, plus this could be represented in a flow chart with a loop :D
< 1273929300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with entry/exit condition of course
< 1273929325 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: going for my weekend away in bryanston~
< 1273929329 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, there needs to be a nice name for the sequence (x+1)/x for integral (natural?) x.
< 1273929338 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if it is just (1/x) + 1.
< 1273929370 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still think that a name is needed for the various sets of complex numbers.
< 1273929370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I think we should list it in moles. Just imagine: ... mol sugar (chemical formula goes here)
< 1273929384 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where a and b are in N, Z, Q and R.
< 1273929390 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Complex numbers are weird, man.
< 1273929396 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weird as fuck.
< 1273929397 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that for Z it's Gaussian Integers.
< 1273929408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, not really. Not compared to quaternions
< 1273929437 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only thing weirder is infinitely complex numbers. Which I just defined to be complex numbers, extended with recursion: you have (a + b ii) where ii^2 = -1 and a and b are infinitely complex numbers.
< 1273929450 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOUR MIND WILL BLOW
< 1273929484 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if you have a complex of the form a+bi, if a and b are complex then it's still complex.
< 1273929486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ii^2 = -1?
< 1273929490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does that even work
< 1273929500 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ii is a new unit, not i*i.
< 1273929503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1273929505 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay
< 1273929505 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't use i because i \in C.
< 1273929508 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's ii \in IC.
< 1273929514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, but is that (ii)^2  ?
< 1273929518 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Hmm, true.
< 1273929520 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What differentiates it from i?
< 1273929524 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing.
< 1273929531 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except it's in IC, not C.
< 1273929533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, why not use k?
< 1273929538 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Meh :P
< 1273929541 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should have
< 1273929550 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no functional difference as far as I can see.
< 1273929554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I mean, j is used by engineers for i, so that would be very confusing
< 1273929567 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: And quaternions use i,j,k.
< 1273929571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true
< 1273929572 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although nobody uses quaternions.
< 1273929577 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Indeed.
< 1273929577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what about h  then
< 1273929581 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about DJSAOId
< 1273929585 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's unambiguous!
< 1273929585 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/   / /
< 1273929611 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[["Brobdingnagian" appears in the Oxford English Dictionary as a synonym for "very large" or "gigantic".]]
< 1273929615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, math hates multi-letter abbrevs
< 1273929619 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAIK quaternions are used in some 3D modelling stuff.
< 1273929620 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*mathematics
< 1273929625 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*abbreviations
< 1273929629 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You contradict thine own self!
< 1273929635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, why can't I shorten it? ;P
< 1273929636 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: But that's computers. :P
< 1273929644 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I'm not a math student
< 1273929645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm CS :P
< 1273929681 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cs is just a branch of mathematics
< 1273929689 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly a runt
< 1273929697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googles define:runt
< 1273929733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I'm not sure which meaning
< 1273929734 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A weak, pathetic young animal.
< 1273929737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1273929754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, also it is bordering on engineering at most unis
< 1273929759 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I don't dislike CS. :-)
< 1273929760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the one I'm on too
< 1273929765 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, that is the real problem.
< 1273929784 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Computer science is definitely mathematics, but engineering of any sort is not.
< 1273929799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, engineering is like applied mathematics
< 1273929806 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not really.
< 1273929807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that refers to something else iirc
< 1273929810 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They use mathematics though.
< 1273929818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yeah applying it to problems.
< 1273929830 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. But then so does, say, accounting.
< 1273929835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah the phrase "applied mathematics" is already in use iirc
< 1273929843 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Everything* is ultimately applied mathematics.
< 1273929850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, except pure math?
< 1273929856 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair point.
< 1273929884 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a sort of urge to play with set theory.
< 1273929913 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We all get that sometimes/
< 1273929926 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1273929929 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's perfectly natural!
< 1273930010 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has been observed in penguins!
< 1273930038 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes quite. When kept at reasonable levels it is nothing to worry about. But you should watch out so you don't get addicted. Could result in your downfall. Just imagine, a setoholic...
< 1273930069 0 :impomatic!~chatzilla@87.115.109.119 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273930072 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even worse, I have an urge to write an English-language translation of the axioms!
< 1273930082 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To indoctrinate poor, innocent mathematical children into the false religion!
< 1273930089 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay now you are into dangerous stuff
< 1273930119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm I wonder how VHDL integer type handles underflow/overflow
< 1273930131 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably "not".
< 1273930139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be neat with an integer with the range 0-79
< 1273930143 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can be done
< 1273930149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah not sure about overflow
< 1273930175 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love Tarski's axiom so much
< 1273930177 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[For every set x, there exists a set y whose members include:
< 1273930177 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    * x itself;
< 1273930177 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    * every subset of every member of y;
< 1273930177 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    * the power set of every member of y;
< 1273930178 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    * every subset of y of cardinality less than that of y.]]
< 1273930191 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it implies the axioms of infinity, choice, power set, and the existence of inaccessible cardinals
< 1273930202 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ây [x â y â§ â€z â y [â€w (w âŠ† z â†’ w â y) â§ âw â y â€v (v âŠ† z â†’ v â w)] â§ â€z [z âŠ† y â†’ (z â‰ y â¨ z â y)]]
< 1273930215 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why the [[]]?
< 1273930239 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno, it's the same as ()
< 1273930244 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess to make it easier to read
< 1273930255 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean the English version of Tarski's axiom.
< 1273930265 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh; that's my quote marks.
< 1273930283 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are indeed strange.
< 1273930333 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone know the name for the symbol like an 'O' but tiny and on the baseline.
< 1273930343 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Null?
< 1273930350 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in aleph-null?
< 1273930358 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic, subscripted O?
< 1273930378 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: Where is it used?
< 1273930378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or subscripted O with negative vertical space (ugh!)
< 1273930392 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, as in aleph-null.
< 1273930409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic, isn't that just a subscripted 0?
< 1273930414 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I can't find a HTML or Unicode entity for it
< 1273930428 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<sub>0</sub>?
< 1273930428 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's simply subscripted zero.
< 1273930435 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: â‚€
< 1273930436 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not O.
< 1273930437 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's zero.
< 1273930443 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is also Aleph-one, etc.
< 1273930447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, unicode has a subscripted 0 letter iirc
< 1273930451 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: However, using the Unicode subscripts is bad style.
< 1273930454 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use <sub>0</sub> instead.
< 1273930458 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(They are only there for legacy reasons.)
< 1273930462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, why is the unicode subscript bad style?
< 1273930473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :useful on IRC
< 1273930478 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unicode in general is pretty stupid.
< 1273930480 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xÂ˛ for the suberscript
< 1273930482 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: only in Unicode for compatibility reasons; not every character can be subscripted, just an arbitrary, small subset; Unicode is a character set, not a typesetting system
< 1273930490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, yeah they didn't include klingon :(
< 1273930497 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are officially deprecated
< 1273930497 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or Tengwar.
< 1273930510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well missing klingon is worse
< 1273930515 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well,*
< 1273930543 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have never watched any Star Trek, with the exception of the 2008 movie.
< 1273930549 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1273930561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never saw that movie iirc
< 1273930579 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Star Trek is quite entertaining. Just fluff, though, of course.
< 1273930589 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spock kills Kirk with Rosebud and then it turns out that they're both Tyler Durden!
< 1273930602 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The 2008 movie?
< 1273930605 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you mean the 2009 one?
< 1273930613 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1273930617 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right.
< 1273930623 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That one is even more fluffy. :-)
< 1273930631 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course.
< 1273930671 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This idea was later used to create the 2009 film, SProxy-Connection: keep-alive Cache-Control: max-age=0 r Trek." --Wikipedia
< 1273930680 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat.
< 1273930702 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[This idea was later used to create the 2009 film, [[Star Trek (film)|SProxy-Connection: keep-alive
< 1273930702 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cache-Control: max-age=0
< 1273930703 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :r Trek]].]]
< 1273930703 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--page source
< 1273930704 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which page?
< 1273930711 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country]]
< 1273930721 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't change it
< 1273930724 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best Trek movie title ever
< 1273930758 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, XD
< 1273930760 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks at history.
< 1273930766 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like vandalism though
< 1273930771 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or a filter issue.
< 1273930775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or that
< 1273930784 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coming soon...
< 1273930786 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A world...
< 1273930786 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bloody weird vandalism.
< 1273930790 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never seen before...
< 1273930793 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Space...
< 1273930795 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unleashed...
< 1273930798 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DUN DADANDANDAU DNUUN DUN DUN DUN DUN DUN DUN
< 1273930800 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DRAMATIC CLIPS
< 1273930801 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1273930807 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SProxy-Connection: keep-alive Cache-Control: max-age=0 r Trek.
< 1273930813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, The final frontier!
< 1273930816 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1273930834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, To boldly go where no TCP packet has gone before!
< 1273930857 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"WHAT?! They're not caching our pages!"
< 1273930863 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Someone... has... infiltrated... our... server."
< 1273930864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Red alert!
< 1273930866 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"IT RUNS OUR SHIP!"
< 1273930871 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SIRENS SIRENS SIRENS SIRENS
< 1273930878 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The CPU cannae tak it!
< 1273930886 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I'll use Mac OS X to hack our own Ruby on Rails admin interface!"
< 1273930892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and including realistic reversing of polarity!
< 1273930894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the first time ever
< 1273930895 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"THE PASSWORD IS 'ROSEBUD'!!!!!"
< 1273930907 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, reversing polarity of the DC circuit it infected!
< 1273930918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the diodes will block it, shut it down
< 1273930921 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kane... hacked... the Enterprise!
< 1273930953 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1273930957 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spock... is a HUMAN
< 1273930960 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From an ALTERNATE REALITY!
< 1273930964 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HE HOLDS THE KEY TO THE CACHING
< 1273930966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay that's too weird
< 1273930969 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He must sacrifice himself...
< 1273930971 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To safe...
< 1273930974 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The universe...
< 1273930974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I like it :)
< 1273930979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, save*
< 1273930984 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1273930992 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ship's drive is so powerful that if it isn't cached, the sheer energy will OBLITERATE THE UNIVERSE!
< 1273930996 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But DON'T TELL HEALTH AND SAFETY!
< 1273931000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1273931012 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I liked my idea of realistic reversing of polarity
< 1273931018 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD
< 1273931020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably they have installed easy switches for it by now
< 1273931023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since they do it so often
< 1273931029 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ship is based on solving Diophantine equations.
< 1273931035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mechanical ones probably
< 1273931039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, oh?
< 1273931043 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1273931047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you mean
< 1273931047 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is never elaborated upon.
< 1273931051 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1273931058 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is, however, used in the climax to save the universe.
< 1273931073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay that sounds like treknobable gone bad
< 1273931075 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean
< 1273931077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worse than usual
< 1273931091 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can we use the inevitable breakdown of causality due to FTL travel as a plot point?
< 1273931099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, been done iirc?
< 1273931108 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In ST?
< 1273931112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in star trek yes
< 1273931116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :next generation I think
< 1273931117 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: They used the proof of Poincare's conjecture to prove that the circles of the ship MUST evaporate!!!!
< 1273931123 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes, yes we can.
< 1273931136 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It turns out that you can do infinitely long tasks in finite time if you don't care about causality.
< 1273931141 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The computation reaches BEYOND the end of the universe.
< 1273931148 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is how it solves Diophantine equations.
< 1273931155 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We shall build a TwoDucks interpreter!
< 1273931163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1273931192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, which one was Poincare's conjecture?
< 1273931193 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And hence defy the Halting Problem!
< 1273931202 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poincar%C3%A9_conjecture
< 1273931205 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a theorem, at least!
< 1273931220 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's about circles tightening. And spheres.
< 1273931229 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The second-last sphere in the image looks like the Death Star.
< 1273931233 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So clearly this is a Trek/Wars crossover.
< 1273931242 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also clearly the redesigned Enterprise is circular.
< 1273931244 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And gets shrinked.
< 1273931247 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the Death Star.
< 1273931266 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We must refashion it into a torus before we are crushed!
< 1273931280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1273931304 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if anyone has developed a theory of the reals and complexes enough in a proof assistant to define the analytically continued zeta function.
< 1273931306 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no the circle is slightly to small for the death-star
< 1273931327 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That requires convergent infinite sums and analytic continuation; sounds painful
< 1273931356 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That's just a continuity error
< 1273931426 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, XD
< 1273931469 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit, I have a horrible, horrible need to give a value to the harmonic series.
< 1273931497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, of what? the death star's resonance frequency?
< 1273931508 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sum(n=1, inf) 1/n
< 1273931511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1273931518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I preferred my interpretation :P
< 1273931529 0 :maedhros777!~michael@c-76-118-245-128.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273931549 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we could calculate it from the movies. Isn't it a green laser?
< 1273931553 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We already have values for {sum(n=1, inf) 1}, {sum(n=1, inf) n} and indeed all forms of {sum(n=1, inf) s^n} apart from n=-1.
< 1273931589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by measuring exact hue on that laser it should be possible to calculate what type of laser was used
< 1273931607 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's patently not a laser.
< 1273931622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hm right, unless there is a lot of dust in space for it to reflect from
< 1273931640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so some ionised plasma weapon perhaps?
< 1273931646 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More likely.
< 1273931663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea at all about how to calculate anything on that
< 1273931665 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so meh
< 1273931672 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it will also be necessary to explain the behaviour of the beams when they intersect.
< 1273931687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I don't remember that
< 1273931690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean
< 1273931693 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does this Aleph-null look okay? See bottom of page, reference 1 - http://corewar.co.uk/darwin
< 1273931730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic, the usual name I heard for it is aleph-zero
< 1273931731 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1273931732 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's fine.
< 1273931733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic, hm
< 1273931743 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's exactly how you should write it. :)
< 1273931752 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Officially it's called the "superlaser", but of course there's no requirement that "superlaser" need be an instance of laser.
< 1273931758 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good, thanks :-)
< 1273931767 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: In TeX it's written \aleph_0.
< 1273931773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay wikipedia calls it "Aleph-naught" in one place
< 1273931774 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., letter "aleph", subscript 0.
< 1273931776 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never heard that before
< 1273931778 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ^
< 1273931782 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia calls it "aleph-null" sometimes too.
< 1273931874 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wookieepedia says the death star thing is "composed of several exotic matter beams accelerated and amplified by gigantic focusing magnetic lenses and coils, producing a single powerful beam", and taking "energy from a massive hypermatter  core, converting the energy present in hyperspace  into highly unstable particles that were tremendously destructive in normal space".
< 1273931888 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, what is the beam intersection thing you mentioned?
< 1273931892 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not exactly clear how to compute anything from the hue.
< 1273931916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, where did they get that from? Is it canon?
< 1273931946 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's from one of the EU novels; I think they have several levels of canonicality in there.
< 1273931962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EU = European ....? Nah can't be...
< 1273931983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh extended universe I guess
< 1273931990 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got rejected by DMOZ again. They really don't trust me to edit sections of the Open Directory! :-/
< 1273932009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic, what? open directory? which year is this?
< 1273932013 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1995? Right?
< 1273932021 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Expanded, I think.
< 1273932024 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah
< 1273932054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway, I don't think you can compute anything from that description at all
< 1273932059 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Open Directory is still there.  Listing is way out of date but still ranking well in Google.
< 1273932063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it is technoable all the way down
< 1273932086 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic, uhu
< 1273932106 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just wanted to update a couple of sections so it doesn't reflect badly on the subject.
< 1273932135 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably be better if DMOZ just got wiped off the net.
< 1273932173 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, well, in a full-power shot, "the amount of energy involved were so great it would generate miniscule space-time singularities, sending part of the target's mass to hyperspace and generating a massive shockwave from high-energy tachyons from hyperspace".
< 1273932177 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I see no technogabble here."
< 1273932186 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah, babble.
< 1273932193 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1273932211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I didn't know Star Wars (ab)used tachyons as well
< 1273932287 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone here know which i/o header files <ios> includes?
< 1273932304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777, <ios> in what?
< 1273932307 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++
< 1273932310 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah no clue
< 1273932315 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know it has <cstdlib>
< 1273932321 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't know what else, though
< 1273932322 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use C not C++
< 1273932324 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok
< 1273932328 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777, read the file?
< 1273932329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the spec?
< 1273932332 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok
< 1273932341 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or I'll just write code and see if it compiles.
< 1273932352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777, might not be portable then
< 1273932355 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's for a golf thing :)
< 1273932367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777, it is /usr/include/c++/4.5.0/ios here
< 1273932374 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks
< 1273932387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't find cstdlib in it, probably included indirectly
< 1273932397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777, anyway the path will vary between systems
< 1273932397 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah
< 1273932405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one I mentioned works on arch linux
< 1273932405 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I know printf() works with it
< 1273932416 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do C++ requires prototypes for everything?
< 1273932420 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use Ubuntu, it's a pretty similar path
< 1273932420 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C doesn't after all
< 1273932430 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you mean by prototypes?
< 1273932444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/include/c++/4.3.3/ios on my ubuntu system
< 1273932449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777, uh, the usual thing?
< 1273932453 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1273932464 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like: void foo(int); in a header?
< 1273932476 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, yeah
< 1273932483 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if it's required
< 1273932490 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always do it, though
< 1273932491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777, you can leave that out in C after all, but compiler will likely warn you
< 1273932498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are good reasons to NOT leave it out
< 1273932504 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it's a good idea to do so
< 1273932525 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never tried doing it otherwise, so I'm not sure if it's an error.
< 1273932724 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait, printf() isn't actually included with <ios>
< 1273932728 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strange
< 1273932745 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would this compile, then? http://golf.shinh.org/reveal.rb?char+pyramid/nn_1271263335&cpp
< 1273932799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no clue
< 1273932800 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very strange
< 1273932821 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe there's something weird with the site's C++ compiler
< 1273932824 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777, perhaps it does allow implicit declarations (thus skipping prototype
< 1273932825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :)
< 1273932830 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe
< 1273932832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try to remove the include
< 1273932840 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried compiling it myself and it didn't work
< 1273932854 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't recognize printf()
< 1273932854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1273932876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777, I can't see why it wouldn't compile as C99 at least
< 1273932885 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah
< 1273932891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without the include
< 1273932970 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoah...I think I'm going crazy or something...I just used #import instead of #include :)
< 1273932974 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too much python
< 1273932983 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or Java
< 1273933030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777, that code used import yes
< 1273933031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very strange
< 1273933052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might have a meaning with some preprocessors
< 1273933067 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think anything forbids such an implementation specific extension
< 1273933077 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess
< 1273933096 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should do that with the site's compiler, since it cuts down on characters
< 1273933108 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Objective-C has an #import preprocessor directive.
< 1273933119 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is C++, though
< 1273933125 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly the compiler recognizes it even in C++ mode, then.
< 1273933133 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe
< 1273933136 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If it is a combined C/ObjC/C++ thing.)
< 1273933150 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This golf site has like a million languages
< 1273933156 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even brainfuck :)
< 1273933236 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My GCC does in C mode, albeit noisily.
< 1273933238 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fis@eris:~$ cat > test.c
< 1273933238 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#import <stdio.h>
< 1273933238 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int main(void) { printf("foo\n"); return 0; }
< 1273933238 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fis@eris:~$ gcc -o test test.c
< 1273933238 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test.c:1:2: warning: #import is a deprecated GCC extension
< 1273933239 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fis@eris:~$ ./test
< 1273933241 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo
< 1273933243 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777: sinh?
< 1273933249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, objc++?
< 1273933276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm GCC extension?
< 1273933280 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm...
< 1273933285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm interested
< 1273933291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can't be the objc thing then
< 1273933292 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's gcc, though
< 1273933301 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777, yes, what do you use?
< 1273933306 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++, so g++
< 1273933308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clang?
< 1273933311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1273933330 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get the same thing from g++ too.
< 1273933338 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, that's weird
< 1273933343 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me try it again.
< 1273933343 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :g++ (Ubuntu 4.4.3-4ubuntu5) 4.4.3, to be exact.
< 1273933397 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're right
< 1273933401 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very strange
< 1273933415 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When was import ever used?
< 1273933465 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait, look at this: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/8etzzkb6%28VS.71%29.aspx
< 1273933473 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but that's not the GCC #import.
< 1273933486 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a GCC #import?
< 1273933496 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> test.c:1:2: warning: #import is a deprecated GCC extension
< 1273933499 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sure looks like one.
< 1273933500 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yeah
< 1273933518 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly it's like the Objective-C #import, just extended to work in the C/C++ modes too.
< 1273933545 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure it doesn't do what the even weirder Visual C++ #import does.
< 1273933548 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stackoverflow.com/questions/172262/c-include-and-import-difference
< 1273933576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Import in gcc: The import in gcc is different from the import in VC++. It is a simple way to include a header at most once only. (In VC++ and GCC you can do this via #pragma once as well)"
< 1273933577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1273933591 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah
< 1273933620 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of the answers noted the "deprecated GCC extension" warning
< 1273933741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's nice that my desktop doesn't need any file from /lib/firmware. My laptop seems to use two binary firmware blobs, one for ethernet (tg3) and one for wlan (iwlagn)
< 1273933767 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh oh
< 1273933769 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?Count+asterisks+
< 1273933779 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got the largest program size :)
< 1273933795 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the whole thing (mine was in C++)
< 1273933828 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay I'm pretty sure that the befunge93 one can only be that short by checking first char
< 1273933829 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should really do this in C instead (less std::)
< 1273933839 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some are cheats
< 1273933856 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In FlogScript, someone did it with 2 chars
< 1273933868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :befunge93 with 3 chars? I don't believe it
< 1273933870 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah, there it is in the manual; http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc-3.3.6/cpp/Obsolete-once_002donly-headers.html
< 1273933871 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even with cheating, i still don't understand how that's possible
< 1273933885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck not even without cheating
< 1273933887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1273933888 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with*
< 1273933895 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :&.@
< 1273933912 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Works for the two samples anyway
< 1273933915 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You think it would be cheating if I checked for non-whitespace?
< 1273933934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh duh
< 1273933943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what is the char code of *
< 1273933948 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :42
< 1273933970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1273933972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easy then
< 1273933987 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Don't you mean ~?
< 1273934000 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never remember which is which
< 1273934004 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since you sound sure, I probably do
< 1273934017 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I only sound sure because I checked the spec. :p
< 1273934021 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So do you think looking for non-whitespace would be cheating?
< 1273934047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah
< 1273934051 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok
< 1273934053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1273934054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe
< 1273934061 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll do this in brainfuck
< 1273934074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm more than 2 chars there right?
< 1273934080 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep
< 1273934080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't have number output
< 1273934088 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you mean?
< 1273934103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maedhros777, "output as ascii code" vs. "output as number"
< 1273934112 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean in brainfuck?
< 1273934114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in printf "%d"
< 1273934119 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok
< 1273934120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah you don't have that
< 1273934139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I wonder what it does with the extra whitespace
< 1273934142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably it strips it
< 1273934215 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh they have asymptote
< 1273934218 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's wonderful
< 1273934227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no TeX or LaTeX or Plain TeX as far as I can find
< 1273934462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay how does it do the erlang thing...
< 1273934476 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the erlang thing?
< 1273934481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in anagolf
< 1273934489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it seems to require a full module
< 1273934498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what would the entry point be
< 1273934509 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :entry is m iirc
< 1273934516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1273934520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, arity?
< 1273934527 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Find out.
< 1273934543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah got it working
< 1273934557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now to make it shorter
< 1273934600 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darn, you beat me :)
< 1273934619 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think mine is so long because of the std::'s all over the place
< 1273934635 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should've done "using namespace std;"
< 1273934641 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although that's a lot of characters
< 1273934685 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest not using C++ :-)
< 1273934696 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, I'll use C
< 1273934753 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273934947 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?Palindromic+prime
< 1273934953 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm doing this one in C
< 1273935048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, if you resubmit after making it shorter, is the old one removed?
< 1273935050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems so
< 1273935059 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no?
< 1273935066 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it does, that is a bug
< 1273935072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I used same name
< 1273935073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1273935081 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think you should be allowed to do that
< 1273935083 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :write shinh in #anagolf
< 1273935103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so you can't have multiple entries by your nick
< 1273935117 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, not anagolf
< 1273935118 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I realised how to cut down on the length you see
< 1273935119 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget
< 1273935125 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's a bug because it means anyone can overwrite
< 1273935132 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah #anagol
< 1273935174 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1273935184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it kept the minimum it seems
< 1273935195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or.. I don't know
< 1273935202 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#anagol
< 1273935214 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it may be me that got confused somehow
< 1273935297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm new record . lets see what happened
< 1273935313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay it definite let me overwrite
< 1273935324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the erlang code can be made shorter if not using form
< 1273935330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you can make a shorter module name then
< 1273935415 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, mentioned it in that channel
< 1273935420 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets see what happens
< 1273935450 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ping shinh about it
< 1273935551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no need it seems
< 1273935625 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1273936084 0 :cheater2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1273936088 0 :impomatic!~chatzilla@87.115.109.119 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273936097 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1273936729 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC #import is identical to #include, except it is sane if you use it more than once.
< 1273936787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, yes we found that
< 1273936804 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK.
< 1273937114 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the structure of a circle for complex values of x and y?
< 1273937309 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273937337 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273937379 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Complex.
< 1273937449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, what are x and y here?
< 1273937466 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The variables in x^2+y^2=1
< 1273937472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1273937496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, why not plot it
< 1273937527 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not sure how.
< 1273937552 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well, you take a pen or pencil and some paper
< 1273937563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you draw as required
< 1273937570 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's a 4-dimensional shape!
< 1273937575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh good point
< 1273937589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, you can maybe use x,y,z,colour?
< 1273937594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc mathematica can do that
< 1273937602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3D plot with colour function or such
< 1273937606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot the details
< 1273937625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember getting something that looked really hippie from something rather simple
< 1273937635 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait the Wolfram Demonstrations Project has something.
< 1273937649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember alise said something like "what was that in my drink" or similar as a response to mentioning it in this channel
< 1273937661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot when it was
< 1273937678 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grep logs from last year or a bit more
< 1273937688 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or don't because it doesn't matter so much :-)
< 1273937693 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true
< 1273937699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but iirc I pasted the code for it
< 1273937702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could help Phantom_Hoover
< 1273937715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just modify the expressions required
< 1273937725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same Plot3D or whatever over-all structure
< 1273937938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, btw for some reason I'm getting more battery time on my thinkpad nowdays than when it was new
< 1273937952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like from about 3 hours â†’ about 5 hours
< 1273937977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both with wlan turned off and semi-bright screen (brightest is too bright anyway in many places)
< 1273938100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, found it: http://sprunge.us/QMhM
< 1273938107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was even using complex stuff
< 1273938110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so might be very useful
< 1273938150 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's it a plot of?
< 1273938201 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, something random as a test. Was trying to figure out how to plot something similar
< 1273938213 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will play with later.
< 1273938214 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, forgot what the actual function I wanted to plot was
< 1273938222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, anyway it may allow you to plot that circle
< 1273938260 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll need the circle to be implicit.
< 1273938265 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Byr for now.
< 1273938273 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well should work too?
< 1273938662 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1273938993 0 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273939908 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b7/Peter_Treveris_-_engraving_of_Trepanation_for_Handywarke_of_surgeri_1525.png
< 1273940056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^_^
< 1273940098 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273940131 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273940205 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That picture is so the opposite of ^_^ in every way :P
< 1273940464 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well yes, it was "^_^" at you linking it
< 1273941172 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kuratowski ordered pairs require deciding equality on sets :/
< 1273941239 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273941245 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan!
< 1273941251 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :g'day
< 1273941263 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does this mean i've been missed?
< 1273941274 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I just do that.
< 1273941284 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh.
< 1273941352 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you browse the logs?  i've been commenting on your beta reduction questions but your connection dropped
< 1273941367 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Day?
< 1273941378 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some time last week?
< 1273941391 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly several times
< 1273941585 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273941589 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan
< 1273941602 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi alise
< 1273941814 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan
< 1273941815 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi alise
< 1273941822 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi uorygl
< 1273941831 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi me.
< 1273941839 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi me.
< 1273941919 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww, I was hoping we would have all six.
< 1273941926 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Adrian^L Alex3012 AnMaster augur BeholdMyGlory bsmntbombdood cal153 chickenzilla comex Deewiant FireFly fizzie Geekthras Gracenotes Gregor Ilari ineiros jcp jix Leonidas lifthrasiir Mathnerd314 MizardX mtve mycroftiv myndzi olsner P4 Phantom_Hoover pikhq pineapple Quadrescence rodgort sebbu2 SimonRC Slereah sshc wareya yiyus ZeroOne
< 1273941938 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION slaps oerjan around a bit with a very large trout
< 1273941939 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: deth2u
< 1273941945 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarg
< 1273941947 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION runs away
< 1273941956 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION chases oerjan.
< 1273941969 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it _seemed_ the obvious followup
< 1273941976 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TO WHOM???
< 1273941977 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION catch oerjan and tear him apart
< 1273941997 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to alise, Phantom_Hoover and uorygl
< 1273942010 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait i should have left out Phantom_Hoover in the list
< 1273942021 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NAMES spam can be good, because it brings a channel together against a common enemy
< 1273942023 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no need being _redundant_
< 1273942030 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: I agree.
< 1273942032 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless that enemy is not immediately kickbanned :|
< 1273942053 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least given a week of paid leave
< 1273942055 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, where's our /attack command?  We should be able to drain oerjan's hitpoints.
< 1273942080 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION attacks oerjan with a flash drive.
< 1273942090 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh no, not the flash!
< 1273942110 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The inedible flash!
< 1273942209 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION munches the drive
< 1273942217 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT INEDIBLE
< 1273942226 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION chuckles
< 1273942245 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The drive had poison in it!
< 1273942252 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek
< 1273942257 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION drops dead
< 1273942264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ....
< 1273942265 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION rises
< 1273942269 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brains...
< 1273942273 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turn undead!
< 1273942273 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION squashes oerjan
< 1273942277 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what?
< 1273942281 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CIGARS ARE LIKE FLOWERS
< 1273942290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, for that mass-highlight
< 1273942311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, dropped a 1-gigaton weight on top of you
< 1273942317 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if it's possible for a Life spaceship to travel at <c
< 1273942325 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION feels flat
< 1273942347 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: of courwse
< 1273942348 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: every Life spaceship does.
< 1273942348 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*course
< 1273942349 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plenty do
< 1273942350 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: um they all do
< 1273942353 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er
< 1273942356 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think he means
< 1273942359 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :< speed of glider
< 1273942366 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although that is not <c ofc
< 1273942366 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm terrible at <>
< 1273942366 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you cannot have a spaceship at == c iirc
< 1273942372 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :travel at >c?
< 1273942373 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/<c/c/
< 1273942377 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :proved impossible
< 1273942378 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as is =c
< 1273942382 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, for an orthogonal spaceship, the fastest speed is c/2.
< 1273942384 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and >c is of course impossible by definition
< 1273942388 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget the proof, but it has been proved that some spaceship is the fastest possible
< 1273942408 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I wonder if we could add an "axiom" to Life that functions as a >c-travelling spaceship. Then observe the hilarious effects of time travel.
< 1273942422 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you need a track?
< 1273942429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, can't you do something like a tunnel iirc by placing some pattern which basically "forwards" the glider at faster than c
< 1273942433 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alas, Life doesn't obey relativity.
< 1273942440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course that is cheating but I saw it in some golly example
< 1273942440 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's an illusion.
< 1273942443 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't get time travel unless it's also invariant under lorentz transformations
< 1273942451 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: right, with a track, you can go at c.
< 1273942465 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No effect propagates faster than c, it just looks like that.
< 1273942476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, ah possibly, I don't remember the details
< 1273942479 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone heard of an IRC bot in an esoteric language other then fungot?
< 1273942479 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poiuy_qwert: the fnord clan of devil-worshippers. the tramp ship and its crew remain an elusive mystery. though i saw him monstrously perched atop a mountain of beef,
< 1273942508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poiuy_qwert, yes
< 1273942512 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I think it checks whether the front of the spaceship is there, and if so, puts the back on a spaceship whose front it's already produced.
< 1273942512 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais had one in thue iirc
< 1273942513 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<uorygl> Alas, Life doesn't obey relativity.
< 1273942515 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what!
< 1273942516 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Roughly speaking.
< 1273942528 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah cool
< 1273942528 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> you don't get time travel unless it's also invariant under lorentz transformations
< 1273942529 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MAKEIT
< 1273942529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, hm perhaps
< 1273942539 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: i had a theory once that rule 110 _does_ obey some kind of relativity, because the speeds of many gliders seemed related by a certain function
< 1273942541 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, you guys collectively said three lines in the time it took for me to type "Roughly speaking."
< 1273942554 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*MAKE IT
< 1273942561 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, seriously, adding axiomatic >c travellers to Life.
< 1273942562 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What happens?
< 1273942567 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however i concluded later it may just be an artifact of rule 110's "ether" structure
< 1273942573 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stuff goes faster than c.
< 1273942579 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stuff goes faster than c.
< 1273942594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, slow typer?
< 1273942598 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do it yourself by editing it each generation.
< 1273942620 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I type at... let me think, I don't want to name a number that sounds impossible, so 70 WPM.
< 1273942632 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: thue has sockets?
< 1273942635 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poiuy_qwert: netcat
< 1273942635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, no idea for me
< 1273942638 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I type at something like 110 wpm when I'm trying.
< 1273942645 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More like 80-90 wpm when I'm not trying.
< 1273942652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I never measured
< 1273942654 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: thats an extension or something?
< 1273942659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poiuy_qwert, ...
< 1273942661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :netcat
< 1273942663 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how fast I can type on the iPhone.
< 1273942664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try man netcat
< 1273942666 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poiuy_qwert: no, it's just a program that hooks stdin/stdout to a network
< 1273942667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in your terminal
< 1273942668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or man nc
< 1273942669 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: stop assuming people are on unix
< 1273942670 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i see
< 1273942678 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I refuse to stop assuming that
< 1273942686 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it is fairly safe to say that I am an above-competent typer, since I've been doing it since I was three.
< 1273942687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well I can start assuming everyone is on plan9 then
< 1273942689 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm on a Mac, and even I am on Unix.
< 1273942697 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ais523's bot was in thutu(2?), not thue iirc.  it supported an underload interpreter...
< 1273942698 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most people are not in Unix.
< 1273942699 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well actually im on Mac so i should know this, but im fairly new to unix command line
< 1273942700 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*on
< 1273942704 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::X
< 1273942704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ah maybe
< 1273942710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, it was so long ago
< 1273942717 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poiuy_qwert: It's okay not to know things. Nobody expects you to be psychic. Well, nobody reasonable.
< 1273942720 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah it was thutu2
< 1273942720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea if macs include nc by default
< 1273942745 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1273942756 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mine has nc.
< 1273942759 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So probably.
< 1273942761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1273942808 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :making an IRC bot in an esoteric language has been my goal since starting esoteric languages :P
< 1273942852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1273942878 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(btw it might still be that rule 110 has _some_ lorentz transformation-like thing possible, but it's probably going to require something like those life cell simulated in life things, with a time shift.)
< 1273942993 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: So what effects do you think a >c spaceship would have interacting with other things?
< 1273943028 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It really depends.
< 1273943034 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well almost by definition it would mean the c isn't _really_ the c for the CA...
< 1273943035 0 :chickenzilla!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan !
< 1273943036 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does this spaceship work?
< 1273943041 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I guess if you have three observers a few cells apart on the same line, and a spaceship travelling towards them, they'd see it come right next to them then disappear; the observers behind it would then experience the same.
< 1273943044 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Axiomatically.
< 1273943069 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider cells to have colour white, black or octarine; octarine cells in certain configurations are defined as moving faster than c in directions according to those configurations.
< 1273943070 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But do we have an extra state, or a weird change to the transition rules?
< 1273943074 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: true...
< 1273943089 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so how do octarine cells react with white and black cells?
< 1273943095 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: For all other purposes -- such as deciding what should happen to other cells -- octarine cells are considered as white.
< 1273943108 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :White means dead, right?
< 1273943110 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And how do they themselves interact?
< 1273943149 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: It makes no difference, but I consider them live.
< 1273943167 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dead and live are not the same thing.
< 1273943170 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Live makes sense in this context.
< 1273943174 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :White means alive.
< 1273943196 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: How do octarine cells work?
< 1273943202 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some reason, I think of octarine as being periwinkle, even though everyone knows it's a greenish-yellow purple.
< 1273943203 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: They interact with each other in a way that encodes which direction they go.
< 1273943213 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How that is is unknown.
< 1273943223 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But suppose they exist; then what?
< 1273943244 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then an effect can travel faster than c.
< 1273943262 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To work out all the implications we need more information.
< 1273943266 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273943268 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, "periwinkle"?
< 1273943271 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can an octarine arise naturally?
< 1273943279 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Purply.
< 1273943281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1273943296 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about this: If there's an L- or J-tetromino within an otherwise empty 4x7 block, then the next generation, it moves forward by two.
< 1273943303 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An octarine cannot arise naturally.
< 1273943309 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK.
< 1273943312 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is an Act of God for octarine cells to exist in the initial configuration.
< 1273943326 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They can be destroyed by colliding with white cells as if they were themselves white.
< 1273943345 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So they are not indestructable, but locally in their own configuration of octarines and blacks they perform completely differently, as spaceships exceeding c.
< 1273943346 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And how do octarines produce more octarines?
< 1273943355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so they go away after 1 generation?
< 1273943358 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They do not; or rather, they only do so by moving more than one cell per cycle.
< 1273943360 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No.
< 1273943381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1273943403 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so let us suppose that we have an octarine, and that each generation it dies and a new octarine is produced two cells to the right.
< 1273943441 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, let us say that. In reality, they would be in packed configurations determining the direction.
< 1273943454 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, also say that if there are other cells in its neighbourhood:
< 1273943458 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about the l-tetromino?
< 1273943470 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Run the general algorithm to find out whether it would live or die were it white.
< 1273943475 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it would life, move it two cells to the right as planned.
< 1273943483 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it would die, make it dead; the spaceship is destroyed.
< 1273943492 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the purposes of the algorithm in all cases, octarine cells are treat as white.
< 1273943501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so what if it would live but mutate into a different shape?
< 1273943502 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And nothing ever creates an octarine cell.
< 1273943507 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That is impossible.
< 1273943509 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We are talking about single cells.
< 1273943511 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So an octarine block would be a spaceship in a vacuum?
< 1273943512 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1273943513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay
< 1273943521 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes, travelling at >c.
< 1273943529 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As, indeed, would any still-life.
< 1273943539 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Howso?
< 1273943541 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They do not move.
< 1273943550 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any octarine still-life.
< 1273943553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, depends on your reference frame
< 1273943553 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1273943561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you are traveling at the same speed...
< 1273943566 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The questions are: from an "observer's" point of view, how do these spaceships work?; and how do collisions with them work?
< 1273943578 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No, CA space is not relatavistic.
< 1273943586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, it would be fun if it was!
< 1273943603 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/relatavistic/relativistic/
< 1273943604 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so implement it and test it
< 1273943613 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'd rather have us collectively think about it first.
< 1273943619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1273943628 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What happens if an octarine would clash with a live?
< 1273943658 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is a good question.
< 1273943664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, presumably one would overwrite the other, or both would die
< 1273943670 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It will either become octarine, become alive, or become dead.
< 1273943673 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :These are the only choices.
< 1273943676 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let the octarine override.
< 1273943676 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, let's think about collisions.
< 1273943681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that is what I said ;P
< 1273943681 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A spaceship bashes into a wall.
< 1273943691 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's say the wall is infinitely strong.
< 1273943695 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The spaceship is destroyed. The wall is not.
< 1273943701 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is an argument for become-alive.
< 1273943705 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A spaceship bashes into a wall.
< 1273943713 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The spaceship is infinitely strong; the wall not.
< 1273943719 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The wall is go bye-bye; spaceship takes its place.
< 1273943721 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what if both the spaceship and the walls are infinitely strong?
< 1273943723 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is an argument for become-octarine.
< 1273943725 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A spaceship bashes into a wall.
< 1273943728 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both are infinitely strong.
< 1273943728 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember, the spaceship is travelling at twice the speed of light.
< 1273943733 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The universe explodes. Both disappear.
< 1273943736 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is an argument for become-dead.
< 1273943753 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, if neither is infinitely strong?
< 1273943766 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, infinitely strong really just means stronger than the other.
< 1273943768 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest become-octarine.
< 1273943771 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, Phantom_Hoover, hm you could get quantum tunneling like effects by this
< 1273943777 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems that become-dead involves a>b, b>a.
< 1273943778 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the wall and the ship are correctly aligned
< 1273943779 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So we can ignore that.
< 1273943782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could pass through the wall
< 1273943785 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without colliding
< 1273943793 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So which are stronger, regular still cells or fucked up faster-than-light spaceships?
< 1273943797 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess spaceships.
< 1273943798 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, a wall can still destroy an octarine.
< 1273943802 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it becomes octarine.
< 1273943805 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes; if it goes next to it.
< 1273943806 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yep
< 1273943809 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's my main interest
< 1273943813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm
< 1273943819 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait
< 1273943825 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let o = octarine, a = alive, . = dead
< 1273943835 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oa. -> depends because the a would change the octarine right?
< 1273943842 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.a. -> o obliterates a
< 1273943850 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273943852 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, let's now consider an octarine string.
< 1273943853 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is there a configuration of octarines and alives such that octarines skip over the alives?
< 1273943856 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ^
< 1273943861 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but feel free to consider
< 1273943871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there could be, don't know
< 1273943874 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: doesn't a line die instantly in life?
< 1273943879 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1273943881 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1273943881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on how the wall looks
< 1273943886 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ofc
< 1273943886 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise,:
< 1273943888 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1273943890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+++
< 1273943892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1273943893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :â†“
< 1273943897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.+.
< 1273943897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.+.
< 1273943898 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.+.
< 1273943899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see?
< 1273943901 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1273943910 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is going to be one fucked up space ship :)
< 1273943921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, oh you mean the rotating mincer yeah ;P
< 1273943935 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1273943948 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rotating, CONSTANTLY ACCELERATING AT 2C, mincer
< 1273943952 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if octarines can skip certain walls
< 1273943957 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those walls just have to be in the right place
< 1273943958 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no I meant the +++ one
< 1273943958 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the right time
< 1273943960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as the mincer
< 1273943961 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they will avoid death!
< 1273943965 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, but now imagine the +s are octarine
< 1273943968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any spaceship hitting that
< 1273943969 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ooh
< 1273943993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, how is it constantly accelerating though?
< 1273943997 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess octarine cells can be created
< 1273944005 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we're considering the neighbourhoods of octarines
< 1273944009 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of creating whites we create octarines
< 1273944014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well they have to, otherwise you will always have still-lifes
< 1273944016 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh.
< 1273944017 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because octarines move if they survive by definition
< 1273944017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lives*
< 1273944023 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two cells to the rgith
< 1273944024 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*right
< 1273944033 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That still irks me.
< 1273944035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1273944044 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: what does?
< 1273944059 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Life should be symmetric.
< 1273944074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it should yeah
< 1273944077 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh?
< 1273944081 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is this not symmetric?
< 1273944083 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the rightwardsness.
< 1273944091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1273944094 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well, the long-term plan was that certain configurations of octarines move in different definitions.
< 1273944096 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*directions
< 1273944107 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, we consider an 8-neighbourhood as a binary number saying direction.
< 1273944110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what sort of configurations
< 1273944113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1273944125 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such that the "reversal" of a configuration moves in the opposite direction.
< 1273944128 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ta-dah, symmetry.
< 1273944133 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This requires breaking more rules though.
< 1273944136 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So neighbourhood%4=direction?
< 1273944148 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Something like that, let us say. A neighbourhood of octarines and blacks, that is.
< 1273944152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you forgot non-cardinal then
< 1273944153 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/
< 1273944166 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, symmetry is still destroyed.
< 1273944268 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1273944271 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: but perhaps this is the Key
< 1273944299 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe consider the Moore neighbourhood for 2 cells around?
< 1273944315 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, anyway, isn't this by definition defining the value of c in this CA?
< 1273944325 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Probably. But ssh.
< 1273944328 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Sure.
< 1273944339 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Define c as one cell per generation.  Problem solved.  :P
< 1273944359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I think you need a relativistic CA for c to become interesting
< 1273944366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can't imagine how that would happen
< 1273944379 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. Let's do it.
< 1273944380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :relativistic CA I mean
< 1273944382 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wolfram would be proud.
< 1273944384 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relativity sort of implies non-discrete time and space.
< 1273944405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, exactly the issue yeah
< 1273944406 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And speed isn't an integral concept.
< 1273944436 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a term we use to describe the behaviour of patterns that regenerate themselves somewhere else.
< 1273944549 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reminds me of that esolang... Gravity iirc
< 1273944551 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, we can invent discrete relativity.
< 1273944553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't it uncomputable?
< 1273944559 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes
< 1273944563 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes and no
< 1273944566 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm?
< 1273944566 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's complicated
< 1273944578 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so how do we define speed axiomatically?
< 1273944579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well uncomputable in general iirc
< 1273944584 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a CA?
< 1273944593 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that might work too, but I can't figure out how you get discrete relativistic effects
< 1273944594 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Let's NOT!
< 1273944602 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yesiree, relativity without primitive time!
< 1273944609 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or if that's not possible, eh, we'll Work Something Out.
< 1273944613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1273944621 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then how do we work out any relativistic effects?
< 1273944644 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes time will pass at different rates in different parts due to relativity. Well not different parts. For different observers rather.
< 1273944679 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Cleverly.
< 1273944680 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we would still have a c, but it would be relative observer, no?
< 1273944684 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, we need a physicist here.
< 1273944688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not one
< 1273944689 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If we haven't defined *what* speed is, we can't do relativity.
< 1273944711 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't really make sense for non-spaceshippy objects.
< 1273944728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what doesn't? speed? relativity?
< 1273944758 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, why do we need a discrete CA?
< 1273944768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not make a non-discrete one?
< 1273944772 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because CA's *are* discrete!
< 1273944778 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're *cellular*!
< 1273944800 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A continuous CA has several problems, such as: not being a CA; and being uncomputable.
< 1273944801 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, composed of *discrete cells*!
< 1273944807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah the latter is a problem
< 1273944812 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well, we need to define a notion of another cell being the "heir" of another cell.
< 1273944813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe
< 1273944823 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then the speed is the distance between a cell and its heir across a generation.
< 1273944837 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: This would have to be held as a cell state.
< 1273944850 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope.
< 1273944854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, actually it is a CA even if not discrete. Except CA now stands for Continuous Automaton ;P
< 1273944858 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not if we define the CA such that we have some equation.
< 1273944865 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such that given a cell and its neighbourhood, we can point to its heir.
< 1273944877 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The cells are each in a discrete state, right?
< 1273944905 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1273944920 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that's the only data held about them?
< 1273944931 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. But the neighbourhood provides more information.
< 1273944955 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... it's reversible?
< 1273944975 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No?
< 1273944978 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Life isn't reversible.
< 1273944980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, to it's heir, not to it's parents
< 1273944982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite different
< 1273944984 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1273944987 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latter would be reversible
< 1273944987 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: *its
< 1273944989 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what AnMaster said.
< 1273945020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, how can we get anything relativistic from this though
< 1273945042 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By relativistic effects we mean contraction and time dilation, right?
< 1273945042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, time slowing down or such depending on observers sounds like something we should have
< 1273945045 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, my definition gives us a definition of speed.
< 1273945049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, that sort of stuff yes
< 1273945055 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then we just need to sort of discretise the relativity formulas and tweak them a bit.
< 1273945066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure it is so simple
< 1273945066 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Cells from heir?
< 1273945078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, also is this special relativity only?
< 1273945085 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Duh.
< 1273945092 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CAs can't have gravity/
< 1273945101 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, don't.
< 1273945107 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might be possible.
< 1273945113 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Consider a notion of distance xDy.
< 1273945120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not. you could compute some sort of average by number of alive cells at any point
< 1273945131 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: OK.
< 1273945134 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given two pairs of coordinates (a,b) and (c,d) (a,b)D(c,d) is some distance metric on them, such that (a,b)D(a,b) = 0.
< 1273945137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with some function to reduce weight when further away
< 1273945138 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And probably some other properties too.
< 1273945161 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: So we define speed as the distance from the heir?
< 1273945162 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then consider the heir of a cell (x,y) according to its state and its neighbourhood being a set of coordinates (xH,yH).
< 1273945178 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then the amount a cell (x,y) moved across a generation is (x,y)D(xH,yH).
< 1273945182 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i go away to make food and here you go reinventing _my_ idea of relativistic CAs.  shame on you.  </half-joke>
< 1273945196 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, for the generation, its speed was (x,y)D(xH,yH).
< 1273945198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, with something like inverse square root you would get newtownian gravity. I don't really know the formulas for general relativity style gravity, but can't see why something similar shouldn't work (but with a different function of course)
< 1273945201 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, its speed can change.
< 1273945205 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Good enough?
< 1273945231 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK.
< 1273945233 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, let's not say speed, let's say velocity.
< 1273945240 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also...
< 1273945249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, by that definition classical life would have a velocity of 1 right?
< 1273945251 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should we just write (a,b) - (c,d) instead of distance?
< 1273945257 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a,b) - (c,d) = (a - c, b - d)
< 1273945258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or hm
< 1273945263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this manhattan distance?
< 1273945267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or straight line?
< 1273945269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ^
< 1273945281 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Classical life has no heirs.
< 1273945284 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you can define a good notion of heir for Life.
< 1273945289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm true
< 1273945312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway should we use straight distance or manhattan distance?
< 1273945313 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, you can't have cells with non-integer speeds.
< 1273945324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and wouldn't the distance vary with velocity (relativistic effects)
< 1273945330 0 :soupdragon!~quantum@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273945336 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Manhattan seems appropriate.
< 1273945338 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well,
< 1273945342 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a,b)-(c,d)=(a-c,b-d)
< 1273945348 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this Manhattan or straight?
< 1273945367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh... that is a vector between them
< 1273945372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is not a distance as such
< 1273945376 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes.
< 1273945379 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But velocity is a vector.
< 1273945382 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well.
< 1273945384 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1273945387 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what I meant by velocity is.
< 1273945391 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you get my message alise
< 1273945392 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :manhattan is |a-c| + |b-d|
< 1273945395 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: no
< 1273945397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, momentum?
< 1273945414 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Silly with no concept of mass.
< 1273945427 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well okay, bad word choice
< 1273945427 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let us define:
< 1273945429 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a,b)-(c,d)=(a-c,b-d)
< 1273945429 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a,b)<with|math-font|Euler|D>(c,d)=\|a-c\|+\|b-d\|
< 1273945432 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :urgh
< 1273945433 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay
< 1273945434 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me write it out
< 1273945435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, but isn't momentum a vector?
< 1273945439 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a,b)-(c,d) = (a-c, b-d)
< 1273945440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might misremember
< 1273945443 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a,b)D(c,d) = |a-c| + |b-d|
< 1273945444 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good?
< 1273945444 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is.
< 1273945454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, do photons have a momentum?
< 1273945458 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1273945459 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then "v = (x,y)D(xH,yH)", yes?
< 1273945462 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't ask me how.
< 1273945464 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, they have no mass
< 1273945470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so well if reality can do it...
< 1273945473 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why solar sails work.
< 1273945474 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why can't we
< 1273945479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, yes they have energy
< 1273945479 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And those spinny glass things.
< 1273945486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what spinny glass things?
< 1273945489 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let (xH,yH) be the heir of (x,y) according to its neighbourhood.
< 1273945489 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a,b)-(c,d) = (a-c, b-d)
< 1273945489 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a,b)D(c,d) = |a-c| + |b-d|
< 1273945489 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Name (x,y)-(xH,yH).
< 1273945489 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Name (x,y)D(xH,yH).
< 1273945492 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ DO SO
< 1273945507 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: We have no concept of energy, either.
< 1273945513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, good point
< 1273945525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, but we would with some general relativity :P
< 1273945537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what do you mean Name?
< 1273945538 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: E^2 - (pc)^2 = (mc^2)^2, where only the whole thing is 0 for a photon
< 1273945538 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is why relativity is silly in the first place.
< 1273945545 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d((a,b),(c,d)) = |a-c| + |b-d|
< 1273945547 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thants manhattor
< 1273945549 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: give them variable names and give them names like "velocity", etc
< 1273945559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ah
< 1273945563 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: repeat the message plz
< 1273945574 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was stupid
< 1273945578 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want you to read it
< 1273945583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, anyway I say this won't work since you can't get time slowdown and distance reduction (whatever they were called, forgot)
< 1273945586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least
< 1273945591 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't see how you can get that
< 1273945595 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: well... tell me anyway!
< 1273945597 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you approach some speed c
< 1273945606 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its in the log but dont read it
< 1273945610 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Too much chat
< 1273945616 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I won't; which day so I know which day not to read?
< 1273945621 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1273945629 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not joking!
< 1273945631 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usually I logread every day.
< 1273945656 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, name them dammit!
< 1273945669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1273945672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no idea
< 1273945682 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sheesh, you do it Phantom_Hoover.
< 1273945685 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let (xH,yH) be the heir of (x,y) according to its neighbourhood.
< 1273945685 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a,b)-(c,d) = (a-c, b-d)
< 1273945685 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a,b)D(c,d) = |a-c| + |b-d|
< 1273945685 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Name (x,y)-(xH,yH).
< 1273945685 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Name (x,y)D(xH,yH).
< 1273945688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, but I can't see how you can get relativistic effects from it :(
< 1273945698 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well after this we'll define relative velocity...
< 1273945704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah hm
< 1273945722 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, we need some fixed light speed to get any relativistic effects, no?
< 1273945730 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but let's name these first :P
< 1273945736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or some other absolute for every observer
< 1273945737 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, we need not to have a fixed reference, right?
< 1273945765 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So no still-lifes.
< 1273945766 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, how would we get relativistic effects between observers then?
< 1273945796 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relative velocity.
< 1273945840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1273945856 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The simulator can, of course, have a fixed reference.
< 1273945862 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how would that be ensured to have relativistic effects?
< 1273945877 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: NAME IT DOG GAMMIT
< 1273945877 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just needs to be inaccessible to any patterns.
< 1273945881 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let (xH,yH) be the heir of (x,y) according to its neighbourhood.
< 1273945882 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a,b)-(c,d) = (a-c, b-d)
< 1273945882 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a,b)D(c,d) = |a-c| + |b-d|
< 1273945882 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Name (x,y)-(xH,yH).
< 1273945882 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Name (x,y)D(xH,yH).
< 1273945898 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fred!
< 1273945902 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:09:59 <soupdragon> Message to alise from the roughly 4 days in the past:
< 1273945902 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:10:20 <soupdragon> Ď€/âš8 = 1 + 1/3 - 1/5 - 1/7 + 1/9 + 1/11 - ...
< 1273945902 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:10:21 <soupdragon> Ď€^2/8 = 1 + 1/3^2 + 1/5^2 + 1/7^2 + 1/9^2 + 1/11^2 + ...
< 1273945902 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:10:39 <soupdragon> End
< 1273945905 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the thing i must not read yeah?
< 1273945913 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yer
< 1273945935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, but isn't the point of relativity that, from any given observer everyone else is moving no faster than light?
< 1273945943 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed.
< 1273945954 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, no.
< 1273945957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no?
< 1273945960 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hubble and such.
< 1273945967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hm?
< 1273945971 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let (xH,yH) be the heir of (x,y) according to its neighbourhood.
< 1273945971 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a,b)-(c,d) = (a-c, b-d)
< 1273945972 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a,b)D(c,d) = |a-c| + |b-d|
< 1273945972 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Name (x,y)-(xH,yH).
< 1273945972 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Name (x,y)D(xH,yH).
< 1273945975 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: fine, you name the above :-)
< 1273945977 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Things can appear to be travelling faster than light due to space's expansion.
< 1273945992 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Call them displacement and distance!
< 1273945994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well okay but without that expansion it can't happen right?
< 1273945996 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the heir being the cell that (x,y) is considered to have "moved to".
< 1273946002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well one should be distance
< 1273946004 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(xH,yH) is always alive
< 1273946008 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nmae?
< 1273946009 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1273946010 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: which is which?
< 1273946011 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other one yeah displacement sounds nice
< 1273946017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, D is distance
< 1273946019 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's taxicab/madhatter metric
< 1273946023 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1273946025 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madhatter lol
< 1273946030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1273946032 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :displacement and distance start with the same letter
< 1273946036 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :give them variable names :P
< 1273946039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, x
< 1273946043 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1273946046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a variable!
< 1273946049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P
< 1273946052 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should one be called velocity?
< 1273946067 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, delta also starts with d
< 1273946069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so hm
< 1273946070 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1273946087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, none of them are velocity afaik?
< 1273946089 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: could use the uppercase delta
< 1273946092 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even the lowercase
< 1273946104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you mean the greek letter heh
< 1273946106 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Î” or Î´
< 1273946118 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and use that for displacement, yeah?
< 1273946123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the former is what you use for distance delta
< 1273946124 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Î´ clashes with derivaterivy stuff but meh
< 1273946128 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally
< 1273946129 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1273946145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, Î” clashes with derivaterivy too, no?
< 1273946152 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah... but we're not doing derivatives
< 1273946154 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, how do you write delta?
< 1273946156 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since that's real, continuous stuff
< 1273946160 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we're in a finite world
< 1273946163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, copy and paste from alise
< 1273946165 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let (xH,yH) be the heir of (x,y) according to its neighbourhood.
< 1273946165 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a,b)-(c,d) = (a-c, b-d)
< 1273946165 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a,b)D(c,d) = |a-c| + |b-d|
< 1273946165 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Î´ = (x,y)-(xH,yH).
< 1273946165 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Î” = (x,y)D(xH,yH).
< 1273946165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is how
< 1273946166 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Î´ is displacement; Î” is distance.
< 1273946176 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can say delta and Delta for convenience.
< 1273946182 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273946183 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, now that is confusing
< 1273946183 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or \delta and \Delta if that is not unambiguous enough for you.
< 1273946187 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fine
< 1273946190 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever :P
< 1273946194 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway
< 1273946197 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's define velocity now
< 1273946198 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so Î´ can have negative numbers.
< 1273946199 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Î” is the other finite derivative
< 1273946213 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Î” must have positives.
< 1273946227 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Î´ is not a number
< 1273946230 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a vector
< 1273946237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can be a negative vector
< 1273946238 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's what I meant/
< 1273946240 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right.
< 1273946240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but well
< 1273946242 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1273946246 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok.
< 1273946252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is you reference frame
< 1273946256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for that vector
< 1273946257 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, how does stuff accelerate
< 1273946260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, relative what?
< 1273946263 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Î´ is unrestricted; Î” is > 0
< 1273946269 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: we have not defined velocity
< 1273946275 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it does not matter yet i think
< 1273946282 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: don't we need velocity to define acceleration?
< 1273946304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it does, you need a coordinate system to have a vector in if you want to put any numbers to it
< 1273946313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which you need for that definition
< 1273946318 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since time is discrete, displacement and velocity are pretty much equivalent.
< 1273946326 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: True.
< 1273946327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm probably
< 1273946327 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello
< 1273946329 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello
< 1273946331 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello
< 1273946333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon, ...?
< 1273946334 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello
< 1273946336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why the spam
< 1273946336 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So why not call (x,y)-(xH,yH) v, for velocity?
< 1273946338 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello
< 1273946342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon, stop spamming
< 1273946342 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: stfu
< 1273946344 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello
< 1273946345 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ^
< 1273946347 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> So why not call (x,y)-(xH,yH) v, for velocity?
< 1273946352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any ops around?
< 1273946353 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK.
< 1273946358 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan?
< 1273946362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm he stopped
< 1273946363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good
< 1273946364 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let (xH,yH) be the heir of (x,y) according to its neighbourhood.
< 1273946364 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a,b)-(c,d) = (a-c, b-d)
< 1273946364 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a,b)D(c,d) = |a-c| + |b-d|
< 1273946364 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :v = (x,y)-(xH,yH).
< 1273946364 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d = (x,y)D(xH,yH).
< 1273946365 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello
< 1273946365 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :v is velocity/displacement; d is distance.
< 1273946367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1273946369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon, stop it
< 1273946371 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good?
< 1273946378 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: lament:
< 1273946382 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop fucking overreacting for christs sake
< 1273946387 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please hit soupdragon with a bat
< 1273946388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, works
< 1273946389 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Call d speed.
< 1273946390 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you idiots
< 1273946391 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bat of pain
< 1273946399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what Phantom_Hoover said
< 1273946403 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oerjan, oerjan
< 1273946408 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let (xH,yH) be the heir of (x,y) according to its neighbourhood.
< 1273946408 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a,b)-(c,d) = (a-c, b-d)
< 1273946408 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a,b)D(c,d) = |a-c| + |b-d|
< 1273946408 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :v = (x,y)-(xH,yH).
< 1273946408 0 :cheater2!~cheater@ip-80-226-26-140.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273946410 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d = (x,y)D(xH,yH).
< 1273946412 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :v is velocity/displacement; d is speed/distance(sort of).
< 1273946412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, he is not connected
< 1273946425 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, yeah.
< 1273946426 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :god it's like a bunch of stupid idiots in here
< 1273946430 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the fucka
< 1273946430 0 :nooga!~Administr@86-63-124-134.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273946430 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK.
< 1273946433 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We still have yet to define how to calculate a heir; it depends on the actual CA rules, so we'll just leave it as postulated for now.
< 1273946436 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19txZDTkbBw CTO
< 1273946456 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so how does stuff accelerate?
< 1273946457 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: We should define relative velocity now, yeah?
< 1273946482 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and that must have an upper bound. I'm pretty sure we don't get relativistic effects otherwise
< 1273946486 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see any problem with using the usual http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relative_velocity definition.
< 1273946509 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!~chatzilla@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273946517 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I miss anything?
< 1273946522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Phantom_Hoover> OK, so how does stuff accelerate?
< 1273946522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> Phantom_Hoover: We should define relative velocity now, yeah?
< 1273946522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<AnMaster> alise, and that must have an upper bound. I'm pretty sure we don't get relativistic effects otherwise
< 1273946522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> I don't see any problem with using the usual http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relative_velocity definition.
< 1273946528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what you missed
< 1273946545 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19txZDTkbBw <- my 8080 crunching some numbers
< 1273946548 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1273946556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it needs to be manhattan/madhatter distance or such
< 1273946563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or well
< 1273946573 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is
< 1273946575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Manhattan relative velocity
< 1273946575 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a,b)D(c,d) = |a-c| + |b-d|
< 1273946578 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm true
< 1273946580 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let (xH,yH) be the heir of (x,y) according to its neighbourhood.
< 1273946580 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a,b)-(c,d) = (a-c, b-d)
< 1273946581 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a,b)D(c,d) = |a-c| + |b-d|
< 1273946581 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :v = (x,y)-(xH,yH).
< 1273946581 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d = (x,y)D(xH,yH).
< 1273946583 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :v is velocity/displacement; d is speed/distance(sort of).
< 1273946585 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let v[(x,y)] be v with the specified (x,y), and so on.
< 1273946586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably carries over to the relative
< 1273946587 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relative velocity:
< 1273946588 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG ALISE STOP SPAMMING DUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
< 1273946589 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :v[A rel B] = v[A] - v[B]
< 1273946591 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The interesting thing here is that it depends on the heirs of two separate
< 1273946593 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :particles, that will "move" into their new positions this generation.
< 1273946596 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IHELPP!!!!!! ARE THERE ANY OPS I CANT HANDLE THIS
< 1273946599 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: seriously just shut up.
< 1273946600 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fucking pathetic
< 1273946604 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1273946604 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::[
< 1273946611 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: i'll watch that vid now
< 1273946613 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't need sound right
< 1273946617 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes that paste was uncalled for kind of
< 1273946627 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I wsa just putting the current state of play
< 1273946628 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*was
< 1273946636 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll use pastie now it's big, swear.
< 1273946636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, we need pastebin very soon
< 1273946638 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1273946643 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know which stores would sell Latin suited tarot cards?
< 1273946648 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: that 8088 is a masterpiece
< 1273946653 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, sprunge!
< 1273946654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P
< 1273946660 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: I've revised my opinion of you, for making a custom 8088 computer from scratch you are cool
< 1273946667 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;
< 1273946674 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beh
< 1273946680 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need to get RAM working
< 1273946685 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: so
< 1273946691 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have up to relative velocity
< 1273946691 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then move to multiprocessor configuration
< 1273946695 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd be awesome
< 1273946696 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1273946696 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should define acceleration, right?
< 1273946699 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1273946717 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember, no momentum.
< 1273946720 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let (x,y)H be (xH,yH)
< 1273946722 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1273946728 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then we have the distance between two movings:
< 1273946729 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Phantom_Hoover
< 1273946743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, next one: built it from simple logic DIP things. I suggest the 74HC* series
< 1273946749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in the cpu itself from that
< 1273946750 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|d[A] - d[AH]|
< 1273946754 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which becomes
< 1273946768 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|(x,y)D(xH,yH) - (xH,yH)D(xHH,yHH)|
< 1273946770 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which becomes
< 1273946789 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :| |x-xH| + |y-yH| - |xH-xHH| + |yH-yHH| |
< 1273946807 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i thought about that but then i realized it would be too big to assembe it without mistakes
< 1273946814 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, ah
< 1273946827 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, brb
< 1273946831 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, for multi-cpu won't you need some kind of MMU?
< 1273946839 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: OK, so how does a cell get delta-v?
< 1273946844 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :| |x-xH| + |y-yH| - |xH-xHH| + |yH-yHH| | = can we simplify this?
< 1273946871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, I mean, to avoid collision they need to sync somehow when accessing the shared ram
< 1273946872 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: so then we have the accelleration between two instants
< 1273946878 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Abses make everything tricky.
< 1273946878 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we just have to generalise that
< 1273946882 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have built a simulation of CPU using a simulation of logic components
< 1273946893 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, but what causes acceleration?
< 1273946894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, nice
< 1273946918 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1273946928 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gravity
< 1273946934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I don't think we can simplify past an abs() no. Not without loosing some possible values
< 1273946940 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1273946944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's kind of like square + square root when it comes to that
< 1273946946 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway that is |d[A] - d[AH]|
< 1273946952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact it is pretty much exactly like that
< 1273946965 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Difference of speed across two generations: |d[A] - d[AH]|
< 1273946976 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Difference of speed across three generations: |d[A] - d[AH] - d[AHH]|
< 1273946983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh
< 1273946989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, why the middle term?
< 1273946989 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1273946992 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right
< 1273946995 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Difference of speed across three generations: |d[A] - d[AHH]|
< 1273947000 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Difference of speed across n generations: |d[A] - d[A{H^n}]|
< 1273947013 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, do we need relative speed?
< 1273947014 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1273947020 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, but what about the cells causes that?
< 1273947021 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can we define that in the same way as relative velocity?
< 1273947046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't you just take manhattan distance of the relative velocity?
< 1273947049 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y/n?
< 1273947061 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely relative speed is just the difference?
< 1273947066 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is relative velocity
< 1273947081 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should we rename d to s, if it's being called speed?
< 1273947082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, we still haven't got any relativistic effects here
< 1273947089 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: We have to freaking build a foundation first.
< 1273947102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, this is a newtonian+manhattan foundation :/
< 1273947122 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Difference of velocity across n generations: v[A{H^n}] - v[A]
< 1273947122 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Difference of speed across n generations: s[A{H^n}] - s[A]
< 1273947126 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should this be v[A] - ...
< 1273947130 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or ... - v[A]?
< 1273947132 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but we need to *define* acceleration and velocity before we can start on relativity.
< 1273947156 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're doing this backward
< 1273947157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, but won't those be defined differently when you have relativity?
< 1273947169 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you don't even know about lagrangian density .
< 1273947175 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's basically a joke
< 1273947187 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thenagain if your having fun hwatever
< 1273947194 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good morrow
< 1273947197 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Difference of speed across n generations: s[A{H^n}] - s[A]
< 1273947197 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or
< 1273947203 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Difference of speed across n generations: s[A] - s[A{H^n}]
< 1273947204 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, but it's helpful to have an idea as to what they look like.
< 1273947205 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or with an abs?
< 1273947208 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :relative velocity/speed don't have abses
< 1273947213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hm
< 1273947213 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm sort of averse to using an abs there
< 1273947228 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relative speed has an abs.
< 1273947233 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As speed is a scalar.
< 1273947240 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, good point
< 1273947243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1273947249 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and difference of speed too
< 1273947250 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Difference of speed across n generations: |s[A{H^n}] - s[A]|
< 1273947250 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumabl
< 1273947251 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y
< 1273947255 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(s is the new name for d)
< 1273947260 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but
< 1273947263 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Difference of velocity across n generations: v[A{H^n}] - v[A]
< 1273947264 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or
< 1273947267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, don't we have non-integer speeds here?
< 1273947269 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Difference of velocity across n generations: v[A] - v[A{H^n}]
< 1273947272 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no
< 1273947277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I mean, consider a velocity of (1,1)
< 1273947280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the speed?
< 1273947281 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally relative speed is s[A rel AH]
< 1273947282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait
< 1273947283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot
< 1273947285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :manhattan
< 1273947286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh
< 1273947292 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to wake up or something
< 1273947315 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what is []?
< 1273947325 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/961772.txt?key=owdr0qfbg56tuesrlbceg
< 1273947327 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let v[(x,y)] be v with the specified (x,y), and so on.
< 1273947330 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so
< 1273947331 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :v = (x,y)-(xH,yH).
< 1273947339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1273947341 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :v[A] where A=(a,b) is (a,b)-(aH,bH)
< 1273947349 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read x[y] as x subscript y
< 1273947354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a directed finite distance?
< 1273947355 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since that's how it'd be rendered normally
< 1273947362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, a vector from a specific point
< 1273947372 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: so we have differences of velocity and speed across n generations
< 1273947373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, right?
< 1273947382 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I guess so
< 1273947388 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: how should we define acceleration?
< 1273947413 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are we talking about its mechanism?
< 1273947417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, mathematically vectors have a length and direction. But not an x,y location or anything such
< 1273947429 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, well ordinarily we'd do a = dv/dt where v(t) is velocity at a certain time
< 1273947435 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey!!
< 1273947438 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the finite calculus!
< 1273947442 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hurffff
< 1273947442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I think the answer is "not yet"
< 1273947447 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a = Delta v(t)
< 1273947450 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did Isay that earlier
< 1273947451 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1273947452 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a = v(t+1) - v(t)
< 1273947456 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait nobody was listening to me AS USUAL
< 1273947457 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where 1 is the smallest time increment, one generation
< 1273947466 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon, only because you were rather rude
< 1273947469 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO U
< 1273947515 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate being smarter than everyone
< 1273947555 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sucks at social skills though. not enough data to figure out your intelligence
< 1273947576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, wait, smallest time increment?
< 1273947585 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sec
< 1273947586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, we can't get the relativistic time effects then can we?
< 1273947588 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm writing stuff out
< 1273947596 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: funny, thinking you're smarter than everyone else is a sure sign you aren't
< 1273947597 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so go away
< 1273947602 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck off alise
< 1273947607 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a joke
< 1273947612 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster
< 1273947619 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :semaphore
< 1273947622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, hm?
< 1273947625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean
< 1273947656 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll try to make semaphores on various sections of RAM
< 1273947673 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is everyone so nasty to me
< 1273947694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1273947695 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: because you are nasty to them
< 1273947712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1273947721 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that idiom exist in English as well?
< 1273947723 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and write a kernel that runs on single processor and controls other units
< 1273947725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"waking up on the wrong side"
< 1273947728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ^
< 1273947730 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed.
< 1273947730 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :     \o/
< 1273947731 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :          |
< 1273947731 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :          |\
< 1273947734 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :broken
< 1273947736 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes
< 1273947741 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :waking up on the wrong side of the bed
< 1273947743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I definitely think soupdragon did that
< 1273947743 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/
< 1273947743 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :         |
< 1273947744 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        /´\
< 1273947755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ah right, in Sweden we skip the "of the bed" bit
< 1273947767 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another bot?
< 1273947779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, no a script of a non-bot
< 1273947783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never seen that guy talk though
< 1273947784 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Poland we say "To get up with the left leg."
< 1273947791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, that's strange
< 1273947797 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In soviet russia we say "Bed gets out of you"
< 1273947806 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe
< 1273947809 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :idioms are idioms
< 1273947831 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, good point
< 1273947844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway how will you do the semaphores?
< 1273947870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, you need some sort of low level arbiter if both requests to read/write arrive at once
< 1273947876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some kind of bus ownership or whatever
< 1273947911 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't have more than one device writing on a bus at once. (well you can but it isn't a good idea...)
< 1273947915 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, we're going to have to write the simulator for this ourselves.
< 1273947924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well yes, and?
< 1273947931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet alise will do it.
< 1273947942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :once he thinks of a name for it
< 1273947945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on
< 1273947969 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and invented three separate OS and one replacement for the concept of file systems)
< 1273947976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(invented, not actually wrote them)
< 1273947978 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P
< 1273948033 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then acceleration, a, is
< 1273948033 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a = Delta v(t)
< 1273948034 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  = v(t+1) - v(t)
< 1273948034 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  = v[A rel A{H^t+1}] - v[A rel A{H^t}]
< 1273948034 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  = v[A] - v[A{H^t+1}] - v[A] - v[A{H^t}]
< 1273948034 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  = A - AH - A{H^t+1} - A{H^t+2} - A - AH - A{H^t} - A{H^t+1}
< 1273948036 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  = -2 AH - 2 A{H^t+1} - A{H^t+2} - A{H^t}
< 1273948046 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seems a very strange result.
< 1273948048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what?
< 1273948054 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is rel?
< 1273948055 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, man, it /is/ the wrong way around.
< 1273948061 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sec, just rewriting it
< 1273948065 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I'll pastie the whole thing
< 1273948068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, also where did the abs() go?
< 1273948072 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sssh
< 1273948107 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had idea making up a new pack of cards.
< 1273948110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't believe you can get rid of all abs() quite that easily...
< 1273948137 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The case has multiple compartments, for four decks of cards, poker chips, pegs, dice, etc
< 1273948137 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :v = (x,y)-(xH,yH).
< 1273948138 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s = (x,y)D(xH,yH).
< 1273948139 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is wrong
< 1273948141 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be
< 1273948148 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :v = (xH,yH)-(x,y)
< 1273948149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, make 3D cards.
< 1273948150 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I know
< 1273948153 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(whatever that means)
< 1273948167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, so how are you going to solve both trying to write at once?
< 1273948188 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The cards have the suit/number also written in horizontal in the right corner as well as the suit/number vertical on the left corner, so that you can see the suit even if arranged the cards in a different order
< 1273948195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, also it would be funnier with a comma between "poker" and "chips"
< 1273948196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P
< 1273948199 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273948205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, wb
< 1273948212 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Hahahahahaha I suppose it is funny. But that's just the joke
< 1273948220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, link oerjan to our current draft...
< 1273948236 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a sec
< 1273948238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good
< 1273948244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't he say he had some idea for it?
< 1273948245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, no?
< 1273948251 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ii didn't think about the details yet but still, multiprocessor is my goal :D
< 1273948252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, how far did you get with that idea?
< 1273948272 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Four packs of cards, one with blue checkerboard pattern on back, one with red checkerboard pattern on back, and two with spiders on back (both identical, and also invertible).
< 1273948292 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The blue checkerboard cards and one of the spiders pack has blue dots next to the number on the front of the cards.
< 1273948300 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not very far.  i was sort of hoping rule 110 was an example.
< 1273948303 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably i would need some clever piece of hardware that buffers output of units
< 1273948317 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The outside of the case is also a checkerboard, cribbage board, and with an arrow so you can keep track of who is dealer or whatever.
< 1273948317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, huh?
< 1273948365 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rule 110 has lots of gliders of various speeds, as you'd expect from a CA with relativistic features
< 1273948381 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And since the game has eight jokers in all, each joker can be differently on the front. Each deck has one black and one red joker (indicated by black/red star where the number/suit gues), and different designs on the front.
< 1273948384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, but was it relativistic?
< 1273948405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, and doesn't GOL have gliders at various speeds too?
< 1273948408 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never found a working lorentz transformation (which would have had to be one-way btw)
< 1273948413 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, one joker might have one suit on each edge, one might have roman numbers I to IV on each edge, one might be V to VIII, etc. In the middle of the design, there might be reference to poker hands or whatever else might go there.
< 1273948431 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i suppose it does
< 1273948432 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is one way of keeping track of trump suits.
< 1273948432 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, very... elaborate...
< 1273948440 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As well as other things.
< 1273948442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I fail to see what such a pack is good for
< 1273948460 0 :Alex3012!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273948482 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hm? what do you mean lorentz transformations?
< 1273948491 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway a "real" relativistic CA should have at least some working lorentz transformations
< 1273948491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, also how do you get time dilation in rule 110?
< 1273948496 0 :Alex3012!~chatzilla@ool-18b989d3.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273948505 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is one other thing I forgot: On each card, there is an arrow to the left of the right indicators. It is pointing upwards if you are holding the card one way, downwards if you hold the card the other way.
< 1273948513 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lorentz transformation is the map for changing coordinates in relativity
< 1273948517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ah
< 1273948539 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I am not discussing a single pack, but rather, a case containing four decks as well as other things.
< 1273948555 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, so a traveling gaming kit?
< 1273948556 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I called this set ULTRACARD.
< 1273948558 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :once you have that, time dilation is obvious, since gliders map into different speed gliders with it
< 1273948565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :travel*
< 1273948576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, interesting
< 1273948578 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about the GOL
< 1273948584 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it can be travel card game, but it can be used for other things as well, even.
< 1273948595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I think this is more advanced than what we are doing. Hope alise post that link soon
< 1273948602 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can easily tell which are single and double packs of cards, even!
< 1273948606 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i'm rewriting it a bit, see /msg
< 1273948617 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273948619 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what /we're/ doing is badly translating basic physics into CA terms
< 1273948622 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't even know whether a CA lorentz transformation is possible, fwiw
< 1273948624 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And many cards games might use some extra equipment, which is included here.
< 1273948645 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least a reversible one.
< 1273948649 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I think my design of the jokers is improved way of design of jokers.
< 1273948659 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273948674 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you know that if you display tha CA grid from a perspective of obserfver placed on the grid and taking assumption that information travels with the speed of one square per tick
< 1273948694 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get a doppler effect when glider approaches the observer?
< 1273948737 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see how, if it is not relativistic space?
< 1273948746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what about contraction though?
< 1273948756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, the other special relativity effect
< 1273948758 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(iirc)
< 1273948824 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: those are connected really.  basically the lorentz transformation i'm thinking of is approximately a linear/affine map of one spacetime to the other, preserving the maximal speed (as in ordinary relativity)
< 1273948834 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: since you add the speed of information...
< 1273948857 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from that it follows that the transformed versions of things will seem contracted and dilated
< 1273948928 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rule 110 was interesting because the maximal speed within its "ether" grid pattern is _not_ 1 as it is for the full automaton
< 1273948951 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the ether grid pattern _looks_ sort of time shifted already
< 1273948981 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the shortest repetition is something like 4 steps left, 1 step forward in time)
< 1273948985 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1273949045 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1273949069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, also general relativity of some sort. At least I see that as a good if we get something working for special. It would be rather trivial to define gravity in any given point anyway
< 1273949108 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :general relativity is immensely more complicated than special
< 1273949136 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it makes no sense in this context.
< 1273949139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, pseduo-general then
< 1273949167 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a non-fixed spacetime is sort of the _essence_ of it, the opposite of a CA
< 1273949193 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, well you could define alive cells to have a mass of 1, then compute "mass-something" in any given point by looking at neighbourhood with a function to reduce the importance of far-away cells
< 1273949196 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I heard wolfram is doing some work in this area
< 1273949212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, shouldn't that work for finding out mass centers
< 1273949217 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then we shall beat them to it!
< 1273949228 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's just basic gravity, general relativity is about gravity changing spacetime
< 1273949241 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or _being_ spacetime
< 1273949248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yes we get to that, but before we can get to it we need a notion of mass, no?
< 1273949277 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1273949298 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273949315 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd want a notion of mass for really doing special relativity as well
< 1273949322 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'm defining my stuff :P
< 1273949324 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll see it soon
< 1273949328 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, well that is what I gave above?
< 1273949338 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the standard model doesn't have mass
< 1273949352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1273949359 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The standard model != relativity.
< 1273949374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't standard model quantum mechanics?
< 1273949382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which we aren't doing
< 1273949427 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, so once you have this notion of mass I gave above, then you have to compute how much it deforms space time in any given point.
< 1273949436 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the standard model is special relativistic, though
< 1273949461 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CAs can't have curved spacetime.
< 1273949471 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Here you go: http://pastie.org/961798.txt?key=srjlqknik7dtjpwunkeg We used to say a cell A and AH directly, but this abstracted particle-function notion has simplified things a lot.
< 1273949478 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, has let me used finite derivative.
< 1273949481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I can't see why not, as long as it is curved in a discrete way
< 1273949485 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not much, I'm basically just defining discrete trivial physics.
< 1273949494 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there you go; derivatives map to finite derivatives as they should and all.
< 1273949497 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make of it what you will.
< 1273949499 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: How does it affect things?
< 1273949528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well, by bending their path. Needs to be in discrete steps of course
< 1273949537 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: The rule for acceleration seems... strange.
< 1273949546 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can we just focus on special for now?
< 1273949566 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: http://pastie.org/961798.txt?key=srjlqknik7dtjpwunkeg is the latest thing
< 1273949579 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently the acceleration of a particle A is A(t+2) - 2 A(t+1) - A(t)
< 1273949587 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where A(n) = A{H^n}
< 1273949605 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Starting at t=0, acceleration is AHH - 2 AH - A
< 1273949606 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go figure.
< 1273949618 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GAH
< 1273949623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, lets see.. what is {}?
< 1273949626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, ?
< 1273949630 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: {} is just lexical stuff.
< 1273949633 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A{H^0} = A
< 1273949636 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A{H^1} = AH
< 1273949636 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc
< 1273949639 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm
< 1273949639 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We don't use it any more
< 1273949642 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was just what I used before
< 1273949645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1273949646 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's now particle functions
< 1273949660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, sure we can translate this back into a CA though?
< 1273949684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, okay
< 1273949711 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let A(n) = (0,n+1). Starting at t=0, aA = (0,3) - 2 (0,2) - (0,1) = (0,3) - (0,4) - (0,1) = (0,1).
< 1273949730 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that does not seem quite right
< 1273949735 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A isn't accelerating at all
< 1273949789 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273949807 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so
< 1273949809 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something's wrong
< 1273949812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1273949813 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aA should be (0,0)
< 1273949820 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because A has a constant velocity of (0,1).
< 1273949821 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me check that
< 1273949847 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ (0,1)
< 1273949853 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be
< 1273949870 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hm what?
< 1273949876 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aA = Delta vA(t)
< 1273949876 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   = vA(t+1) - vA(t)
< 1273949876 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   = A(t+2) - A(t+1) - A(t+1) - A(t)
< 1273949876 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   = A(t+2) - 2 A(t+1) - A(t)
< 1273949881 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the acceleration should be A(t+2) - 2 A(t+1) + A(t)
< 1273949892 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming i remember my finite differences right
< 1273949896 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let A(n) = (0,n+1). vA(t) = (0,t+2) - (0,t+1) = (0,1).
< 1273949899 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so I got a step wrong then
< 1273949903 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1273949909 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Delta f(x) = f(x+1) - f(x)
< 1273949914 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vA(t+1) - vA(t)
< 1273949920 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :expands to A(t+2) - A(t+1) - A(t+1) - A(t)
< 1273949923 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I don't see how this is + A(t).
< 1273949939 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, you are forgetting the -*- = + rule
< 1273949978 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoops
< 1273949993 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273950042 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I detected that you were trying to use your Internet service. Would you like me to help you? *unplug*"
< 1273950052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what?
< 1273950070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where is clippy?
< 1273950084 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my Internet, dropping my packets.
< 1273950088 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHEREISITAAAAH!
< 1273950113 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I have the ridiculous new derivation using your definition that A's acceleration is (0,-7)
< 1273950117 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, I probably made another stupid error.
< 1273950141 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that i already calculated it to be (0,0), i should think so
< 1273950175 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i have it to be -1 :-)
< 1273950180 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the mathematics taught in high school and college is fragmented, out of
< 1273950180 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :date and inefficient!
< 1273950182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, scalar?
< 1273950185 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*facepalm*
< 1273950185 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soilent green is people!
< 1273950207 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aA = (0,3) - 2 (0,2) + (0,1) = 0
< 1273950209 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops
< 1273950210 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was using t
< 1273950212 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Soylent Green is purple!
< 1273950212 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not t+1
< 1273950250 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: http://pastie.org/961806.txt?key=rordooczee0nr3qggjgxnq
< 1273950255 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what should we call the difference of speed?
< 1273950267 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then, after that, we can consider the Awful Question: how do we start getting some relativity into this base?
< 1273950281 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoops i made another error
< 1273950283 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  aA(t) = (0,t+3) - 2 (0,t+2) + (0,t+1)
< 1273950283 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        = (0, (t+3) - (t+2) + (t+1))
< 1273950288 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be 2(t+2) there of course
< 1273950381 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273950396 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might want to write = A(t+2) - A(t+1) - A(t+1) -^H+ A(t)  as = (A(t+2) - A(t+1)) - (A(t+1) - A(t)) for clarity
< 1273950434 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :write it as the incorrect form for clarity?
< 1273950446 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er no wait
< 1273950447 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no the latter is correct
< 1273950448 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1273950449 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1273950451 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems my Internet has decided to have greater instability. Wonderful.
< 1273950453 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am so immensely confused now
< 1273950457 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you still have it wrong on that page though
< 1273950461 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so what /should/ we call the difference of speed across generations
< 1273950466 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the intermediate calculation)
< 1273950488 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all i know is that the derivative of acceleration is sometimes called jerk
< 1273950492 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273950503 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1273950521 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it annoys me that velocity and speed are denoted by bold/italic function names
< 1273950525 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how the hell should we write that out?
< 1273950531 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :**?
< 1273950539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, are they?
< 1273950596 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vectors are sometimes bold, and measured quantities are usually italic
< 1273950613 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact
< 1273950614 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sA(t) = A(t+1) D A(t)
< 1273950615 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is this?
< 1273950625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I always wrote vectors underlined
< 1273950634 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it displacement?
< 1273950643 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is D
< 1273950648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is how I learnt to write vectors
< 1273950652 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's because in ye times of yore you indicated bold for printers that way.
< 1273950654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, a newly defined operator I think
< 1273950658 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: taxicab distance
< 1273950665 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, treat it as just distance for analogy to regular terms
< 1273950673 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1273950710 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well looks like as good a candidate for speed as any
< 1273950735 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to analogise with standard kinematics, though
< 1273950750 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :velocity is vector and speed is scalar...
< 1273950762 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am pretty sure it is displacement
< 1273950777 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what's the latest version of the page?
< 1273950783 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :being written
< 1273950785 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's both, naturally
< 1273950802 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you fixed s(A rel B)?
< 1273950818 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you use 1 as your time difference most of the time
< 1273950822 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or v(A rel B)?
< 1273950842 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm
< 1273950844 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would you call it?
< 1273950846 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :speed or displacement?
< 1273950856 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess, in a way, it is speed since we can't "finite integrate" v to get s
< 1273950902 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/961819.txt?key=esgkaovh9wc6mi1yy0sjtg
< 1273950905 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here is the current state of play
< 1273950906 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A(t+2) D A(t) would be a displacement with a different time interval
< 1273950914 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :discrete, finite trivial physics
< 1273950924 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now we need to make it relativistic in some way
< 1273950928 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*cough* *pokes oerjan*
< 1273950955 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well for a start the relative velocity is completely wrong
< 1273950988 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also when doing special relativity you really want spacetime vectors
< 1273951003 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :v(A rel B)(t) = vA(t) - vB(t)
< 1273951003 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :              = (A(t+1) - A(t)) - (B(t+1) - B(t))
< 1273951009 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I realised it was wrong in a different way too
< 1273951013 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(need to swap the + in)
< 1273951033 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: mm
< 1273951038 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems hard to adapt this to, though
< 1273951046 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: latest: http://pastie.org/961821.txt?key=evbqznopsmamodomdr6yaa
< 1273951148 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: one thing I note is that we can't allow particles to be arbitrary functions
< 1273951155 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or we can have particles sight-seeing by blipping to random locations
< 1273951164 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why A(t+1) must be the CA-defined heir of A(t)
< 1273951186 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the neighbourhood here?
< 1273951220 0 :ws!wswieb@akson.sgh.waw.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273951225 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Irrelevant.
< 1273951238 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The CA must define neighbourhoods, and successors based on these neighbourhoods.
< 1273951243 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that only alive particles have heirs and the like.
< 1273951246 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dead particles are just vacuum.
< 1273951296 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
< 1273951373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1273951510 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: So...
< 1273951511 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What now?
< 1273951569 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are spacetime vectors? A 3D vector with time being one of the components.
< 1273951576 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/./?/
< 1273951586 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that
< 1273951587 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1273951661 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what physics we can define for CAs using these definitions already.
< 1273951676 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now the spacetime distance between (x1,y1,t1) and (x2,y2,t2) is ((x1,y1)D(y1,y2))^2 - (t1-t2)^2
< 1273951692 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might put in a c there if it's not 1
< 1273951706 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i'm not sure if taxicab distance in space is a good thing
< 1273951719 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we certainly cannot use for the whole of spacetime, i think
< 1273951723 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*use it
< 1273951877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh?
< 1273951913 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273951935 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um well if there is a taxicab relativity i don't know about it :D
< 1273952002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1273952003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl food
< 1273952007 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm well i guess the problem is that taxicab metrics have very few invariant transformations
< 1273952038 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1273952043 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wasn't the one who thought of using taxicab
< 1273952046 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you basically _have_ to map an axis to an axis
< 1273952059 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(direction)
< 1273952104 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1273952122 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so we should use Euclidean distance?
< 1273952128 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it requires reals...
< 1273952132 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we don't /have/ reals
< 1273952149 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i forgot a square root up there
< 1273952160 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :differentiation following space-time
< 1273952169 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however if we _don't_ take the square root, we don't need reals
< 1273952184 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: dose that ... work?
< 1273952208 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*does
< 1273952210 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so for two-d
< 1273952213 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1273952234 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait
< 1273952235 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :euclidean is
< 1273952242 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a,b) D (c,d) = sqrt((a - c)^2 + (b - d)^2)
< 1273952244 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you are proposing
< 1273952246 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a,b) D (c,d) = (a - c)^2 + (b - d)^2
< 1273952250 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does this even make any sense???
< 1273952269 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not that much
< 1273952284 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i mean, let's put it this way, we at least need an abs around the whole thing
< 1273952288 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a,b) D (c,d) = |(a - c)^2 + (b - d)^2|
< 1273952299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> i wasn't the one who thought of using taxicab <-- I suggested taxicab as an alternative iirc. Plus it allowed us to have integer distances
< 1273952301 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm it's always positive
< 1273952305 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh true
< 1273952310 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :granted. now explain how on earth it makes sense
< 1273952315 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I also mentioned that we could do straight line
< 1273952336 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok it doesn't make sense, satisfied? ;D
< 1273952341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, but that was shot down iirc by you or Phantom_Hoover for not doing integer
< 1273952343 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no but could we use it as a metric?
< 1273952368 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we want the metric to preserve scalar multiplication, i should think
< 1273952381 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er i mean
< 1273952392 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiplication with a scalar
< 1273952417 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there clearly needs to be an Online Repository of Distance Metrics.
< 1273952423 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway even if our coordinates are integers, our distances don't have to be
< 1273952444 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure they do
< 1273952448 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least rationals
< 1273952465 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because one, it'd be nice to compute this, and two, it does not make sense to travel a real distance in discrete space!!
< 1273952487 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sheesh
< 1273952490 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what :P
< 1273952559 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i don't know how this should work anyway, except that there should be _some_ lorentz transformations ;)
< 1273952577 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway (a - c)^2 + (b - d)^2 isn't even a distance metric
< 1273952582 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't obey the triangle equality
< 1273952589 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHATEVER
< 1273952597 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1273952626 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thuoght a,b,c,d were integers
< 1273952632 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are
< 1273952641 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're talking about (a,b)D(c,d) here
< 1273952641 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what's a counter-example to the triangle law?
< 1273952671 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok um actually i just used the wrong mathematica command to try and decide it :D
< 1273952771 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1273952790 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In[26]:= ForAll[{x0, x1, y0, y1, z0, z1},
< 1273952791 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : dist[{x0, x1}, {z0, z1}] <=
< 1273952791 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  dist[{x0, x1}, {y0, y1}] + dist[{y0, y1}, {z0, z1}]]
< 1273952791 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out[26]= \!\(
< 1273952791 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\*SubscriptBox[\(\[ForAll]\), \({x0, x1, y0, y1, z0, z1}\)]\(
< 1273952792 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\*SuperscriptBox[\((x0 - z0)\), \(2\)] +
< 1273952794 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\*SuperscriptBox[\((x1 - z1)\), \(2\)] <=
< 1273952796 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\*SuperscriptBox[\((x0 - y0)\), \(2\)] +
< 1273952798 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\*SuperscriptBox[\((x1 - y1)\), \(2\)] +
< 1273952800 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\*SuperscriptBox[\((y0 - z0)\), \(2\)] +
< 1273952802 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\*SuperscriptBox[\((y1 - z1)\), \(2\)]\)\)
< 1273952804 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In[27]:= Resolve[%, Integers]
< 1273952806 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out[27]= False
< 1273952808 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :proved beyotch
< 1273952813 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(0,0)D(1,0) = 1, (1,0)D(2,0) = 1, (0,0)D(2,0) = 4 Q.E.D.
< 1273952829 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1+1 > 4 ?
< 1273952832 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what mathematica is saying soupdragon is that /no/ pairs obey that law :-D
< 1273952838 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think
< 1273952864 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um that's incorrect, (0,0), (1,0) and (1,1) do obey it
< 1273952869 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i tried that first)
< 1273952872 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# The British Rail metric (also called the Post Office metric or the SNCF metric) on a normed vector space is given by d(x, y) = ||x|| + ||y|| for distinct points x and y, and d(x, x) = 0. More generally ||.|| can be replaced with a function f taking an arbitrary set S to non-negative reals and taking the value 0 at most once: then the metric is defined on S by d(x, y)=f(x)+f(y) for distinct points x and y, and d(x, x) = 0. The name alludes to the tendency
< 1273952872 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : of railway journeys (or letters) to proceed via London (or Paris) irrespective of their final destination.
< 1273952874 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's use that, then! :P
< 1273952880 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well mathematica is dumb
< 1273952936 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also unreadable *ducks*
< 1273952956 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the output text was obviously rendered more nicely on screen...
< 1273952991 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rail metric = taxicab, surely
< 1273953023 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1273953039 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops
< 1273953043 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :taxicab(p,q) = ||p-q||_1
< 1273953053 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rail(p,q) = ||p||+||q|| if p<>q; 0 otherwise
< 1273953055 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :misread
< 1273953059 0 :ws!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rail metric could be 'river metric' I guess
< 1273953068 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course the rail metric is ever so slightly ridiculous
< 1273953084 0 :ws!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, wrong again, it's not the river one
< 1273953117 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Clearly what we need to define is finite square root.
< 1273953124 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*facepalm*
< 1273953130 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No? :P
< 1273953154 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well we did use floor(sqrt(x)) in a previous discussion recently
< 1273953167 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pah, that's like saying the ... floor... of the derivative is the finite derivative.
< 1273953230 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: How's this for a distance metric, (a,b)D(c,d) = |(a-c)*(b-d)|
< 1273953243 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note: May not actually obey any relevant laws
< 1273953295 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd think
< 1273953306 0 :ws!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it that you're looking for, btw.?
< 1273953322 0 :ws!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a metric on Z^2 with values in Z+?
< 1273953338 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we already have that
< 1273953348 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just doesn't really work for the purpose :D
< 1273953365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1273953365 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another one btw is max(|a-c|,|b-d|)
< 1273953376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I went away for a bit and we had screens and screens of stuff :P
< 1273953381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now did you get anywhere?
< 1273953386 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(corresponding to L^infinity like taxicab corresponds to L^1)
< 1273953392 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ws: yes
< 1273953397 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ws: that we can do relativity with nicely
< 1273953415 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so /does/ |(a-c)*(b-d)| violate any laws? :D
< 1273953445 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE UNIVERSE _IS_ A GIANT SQUARE CA DAMMIT AND WE'LL PROVE IT BY SQUEEZING RELATIVITY INTO IT
< 1273953459 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRECISELY!
< 1273953460 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: almost certainly
< 1273953464 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and quantum mechanics ... (... eep)
< 1273953474 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[oerjan runs away screaming]
< 1273953491 0 :ws!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  it zeroes too much ;-)
< 1273953494 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ANY PROBLEMS WITH DIMENSION WILL BE SOLVED VIA THE HOLOGRAPHIC PRINCIPLE)
< 1273953505 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ws: you zero too much!
< 1273953507 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok what about
< 1273953509 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|a-c| * |b-d|
< 1273953518 0 :ws!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  a metric should zero iff these pairs are equal
< 1273953519 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aka exactly the same
< 1273953540 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :State of play, STAT!
< 1273953554 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, miraculously absolute value distributes over multiplication
< 1273953563 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: SHUT UP :D
< 1273953571 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm in silly mode not think mode
< 1273953575 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I SAID STAT!
< 1273953576 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: WE HAVE NO CLUE
< 1273953577 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey it's a neat fact
< 1273953600 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's a fact too
< 1273953604 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok what about floor(|a-c|/|b-d| + |b-d|/|a-c|)
< 1273953612 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where x/0 is defined to be, uh, 0
< 1273953619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> and quantum mechanics ... (... eep) <-- can we do that after we got general relativity done?
< 1273953624 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: PROBABLY NOT
< 1273953630 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which we will do after we have special relativity done
< 1273953632 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Definitely not.
< 1273953639 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ah, so we won't ever get there?
< 1273953643 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QM requires nondeterminism
< 1273953648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good point
< 1273953653 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering that "discrete quantum mechanics" is the most hilarious lunacy ever dreamt of
< 1273953661 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: well. many worlds!
< 1273953662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, :D
< 1273953679 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SPACE IS FOUR-DIMENSIONAL, FOUR-SIDED CELLULAR AUTOMATON; ONE SIDE IS TIME
< 1273953689 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND THE OTHERS EXPERIENCE TIME-EFFECTS FROM IT
< 1273953689 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TIME CUBE
< 1273953694 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: It's nondeterministic as to which world we go into.
< 1273953695 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TIME CUBE IS DISCRETE QUANTUM MECHANICS WTF
< 1273953700 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: just list them all :D
< 1273953709 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :space is NOT four dimensional
< 1273953716 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spacetime is.
< 1273953736 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: but time cube is!
< 1273953740 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and time cube IS platonic space!
< 1273953742 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might be a *very* small fourth dimension.
< 1273953746 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it claims that then it's bullshit
< 1273953750 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a 5-torus.
< 1273953754 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey discrete quantum mechanics is not that lunatic, spin operators are discrete after all iirc
< 1273953767 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And time cube is naturally bullshit.
< 1273953771 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :h
< 1273953795 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Heisenberg?
< 1273953798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you want discrete string theory
< 1273953799 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a /very/ small fourth dimension :D
< 1273953803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I think is a contradiction
< 1273953810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure
< 1273953815 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Discrete... string... theory?
< 1273953817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is way above my head, string theory I mean
< 1273953818 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: may be his discovery, i don't recall
< 1273953820 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So are the strings just badly interpolated lines?
< 1273953822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, :D
< 1273953824 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :string theory is false
< 1273953830 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are THREE dimensions _only_
< 1273953837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon, eh... what?
< 1273953840 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I smell nerd religious wat!
< 1273953844 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/wat/war/
< 1273953848 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if your string theory claims 11 or 26 dimensions then sorry but it's _Wrong_
< 1273953852 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: I see; your proof?
< 1273953859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon, where is your proof of this
< 1273953863 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is this along the lines of your amazing proof "Plants grow; therefore god exists".
< 1273953869 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, god.
< 1273953870 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if anyone wasn't there: I'm not exaggerating, he said exactly this)
< 1273953880 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O.o
< 1273953895 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you build a klien bottle that doesn't self intersect? No you can't QED
< 1273953904 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :discrete string theory would be like little rosaries, right...
< 1273953909 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can *if it's 4D*.
< 1273953923 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: OH MY WORD! All the string physicists missed that completely!
< 1273953926 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll tell them right now
< 1273953931 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just did so, they've decided to abandon it
< 1273953935 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How did they miss that?
< 1273953956 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ since he can't form a valid counterrargument...
< 1273953987 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so what does the self-intersection of Klein bottles have to do with the number of space dimensions?
< 1273953994 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :count-err-arguments, the most common type on the internet
< 1273954048 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon really believes he has disproved string theory in the strongest sense by stating "you can't build a klein bottle that doesn't intersect"
< 1273954054 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ladies and gentlemen, we are witnessing true insanity
< 1273954066 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ladies and gentlemen, we are witnessing ad hominem
< 1273954073 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well either that or true (but lousy) trolling
< 1273954082 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you know I'm right, but you can't admit defeat you're just doing this
< 1273954098 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, we have *no idea* how your argument works.
< 1273954100 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are funny soupdragon, i think you would make a fun pet
< 1273954103 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like i could go around saying things
< 1273954108 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you'd always make me laugh by saying something incomprehensible
< 1273954118 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :study the topology of klien bottle i fyou don't understand my proof
< 1273954119 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what pets are for
< 1273954149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<soupdragon> can you build a klien bottle that doesn't self intersect? No you can't QED <-- not with current technology
< 1273954157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which isn't same as "in theory"
< 1273954162 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, not with any technology ever -- it's a fundametal fact of the universe
< 1273954167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon, proof of this
< 1273954192 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a basic topology agument
< 1273954195 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: State, concisely, why the self-intersection of a Klein bottle precludes there being more than 3 space dimensions?
< 1273954197 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assumed everyone knew this..
< 1273954197 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well what you are saying does not make much sense.
< 1273954198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon, tell me
< 1273954203 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: but that is not why he is wrong
< 1273954206 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://xkcd.com/171/
< 1273954231 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The smallest number of dimensions you can immerse a klien bottle in is 4
< 1273954234 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really simple
< 1273954237 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK.
< 1273954238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct
< 1273954245 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE CALABI-YAU MANIFOLD IS EDUCATED EVIL
< 1273954249 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does that preclude 4D space?
< 1273954251 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon, ever heard of flatland?
< 1273954276 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, I see.
< 1273954278 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've read that.. its a nice book
< 1273954289 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: incorrect, the klein bottle can be immersed in 3 dimensions
< 1273954303 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immersion_(mathematics)
< 1273954306 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We can't construct non-intersecting Klein bottles, so we can't have 4D spacce.
< 1273954319 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes oerjan, that's right I used the wrong word
< 1273954323 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ty
< 1273954326 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MWAHAHAHA
< 1273954344 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: Is that your argument?
< 1273954421 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/Vx0xg.png
< 1273954435 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I know.
< 1273954444 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be easy to see that the self intersection can be remedied by pulling that handle out through 4D
< 1273954455 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :topologically you can prove this is not possible in jsut 3D
< 1273954483 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you claim that the universe is more than 3D the burden of proof is on you to produce a klien bottle that doesn't self intersect
< 1273954523 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ^ I learned that trick from atheists
< 1273954562 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, but we can't mani
< 1273954569 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forget that.
< 1273954591 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rest of the sentence disappeared into the 23rd dimension
< 1273954606 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote <soupdragon> if you claim that the universe is more than 3D the burden of proof is on you to produce a klien bottle that doesn't self intersect  <soupdragon>  ^ I learned that trick from atheists
< 1273954608 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :159|<soupdragon> if you claim that the universe is more than 3D the burden of proof is on you to produce a klien bottle that doesn't self intersect  <soupdragon>  ^ I learned that trick from atheists
< 1273954613 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Insanity too amazing not to preserve.
< 1273954630 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look, soupdragon, if you can't see why you're wrong, I can't be bothered.
< 1273954643 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I give up.. what's the fourth dimension?
< 1273954650 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firstly, the repeated misspelling of Klein; secondly, the patently incorrect application of burden of proof; and thirdly, jesus christ on a freaking pogo stick man.
< 1273954663 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's incredibly small and toroidal.
< 1273954672 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So we haven't the ability to move stuff in it.
< 1273954689 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm invisible dragon in the garage much?
< 1273954702 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: you do realise that burden of proof NEVER implies anything is false?
< 1273954705 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION chuckles
< 1273954709 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just that we don't have to consider it? you stated it was /false/ outright
< 1273954711 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and besides, no
< 1273954719 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't mean we can't detect it.
< 1273954719 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can make predictions about these spaces with a coherent theory of them
< 1273954724 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that we can't decide on one :-)
< 1273954837 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273954857 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help
< 1273954858 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
< 1273954878 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help quote
< 1273954880 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
< 1273954887 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1273954888 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :97|<fungot> i am sad ( of course by analogy) :) smileys)
< 1273954901 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote help
< 1273954903 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :66|<Aftran> It looks like my hairs are too fat. Can you help me split them?
< 1273954912 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...what.
< 1273954917 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o hai oerjan
< 1273954931 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'evening augur
< 1273954982 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273955007 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1273955009 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :77|<ehird> no Deewiant <Deewiant> No?! <Deewiant> I've been living a lie <ehird> yep. <Deewiant> Excuse me while I jump out of the window ->
< 1273955030 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fortunately it was a first floor window.
< 1273955031 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ls
< 1273955032 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ cube2.base64 \ cube2.jpg \ hack_gregor \ hello.txt \ help.txt \ huh \ netcat-0.7.1 \ netcat-0.7.1.tar.gz \ out.txt \ paste \ poetry.txt \ quotes \ share \ test.sh \ tmpdir.19787 \ wunderbar_emporium
< 1273955043 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: It'd still hurt.
< 1273955054 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I didn't jump
< 1273955066 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: YOU STINKING LIAR
< 1273955085 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, i may have meant basement.
< 1273955093 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is that ground floor
< 1273955094 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the quote'd been any longer it'd've clarified that
< 1273955100 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah.
< 1273955122 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`define basement
< 1273955124 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* the lowermost portion of a structure partly or wholly below ground level; often used for storage \      * the ground floor facade or interior in Renaissance architecture \        [22]wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
< 1273955140 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess jumping out a basement window would not be that impressive.
< 1273955150 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course it would!
< 1273955153 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe it would, just in the wrong kind of way.
< 1273955157 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd /rise/
< 1273955174 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or fall through the Earth, then /oscillate/.
< 1273955182 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1273955223 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah you'd be swallowed by the black hole in the center.
< 1273955234 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What black hole?
< 1273955251 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PERHAPS IT WOULD BE RELATIVISTIC.
< 1273955254 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one at the center of the earth
< 1273955260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay I went away for another bit
< 1273955270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what did you end up with for the CA?
< 1273955278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have relativity yet?
< 1273955283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(special that is)
< 1273955286 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: nope
< 1273955291 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WE HAVE RELATIVITY
< 1273955295 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, :D
< 1273955295 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in a CA though
< 1273955299 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Which log has soupdragon saying that plants growing proves God?
< 1273955300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1273955304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, still trying?
< 1273955304 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: not sure
< 1273955310 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use "grep --crazy"
< 1273955329 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't get the lot in greppable form.
< 1273955339 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote <alise> use "grep --crazy"
< 1273955343 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :160|<alise> use "grep --crazy"
< 1273955352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, wget -r -np
< 1273955366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how large it is
< 1273955389 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what she said
< 1273955411 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about 50 megs because of minimum file size iirc
< 1273955460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well you don't download a block of zeros
< 1273955465 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that is the important bit here
< 1273955471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you only download actual file size
< 1273955477 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let Delta^h f(x) = (f(x+h) - f(x))/h.
< 1273955477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure on disk it will be larger
< 1273955490 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah, robots.txt looks like it's blocking me.
< 1273955497 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let Delta^Sigma f(x) = lim k->inf (sum h=0 to k, Delta^h f(x))/k
< 1273955510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, create a fake robots.txt and tell wget to not refetch files
< 1273955512 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then Delta^Sigma -- I'll abbreviate DS --
< 1273955512 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that works
< 1273955518 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DS (x) = 1
< 1273955522 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DS (2x) = 2
< 1273955524 0 :ws!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: [BX] Been around the world and found that only stupid people are breeding.
< 1273955527 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DS (x^2) = infinity
< 1273955531 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and finally
< 1273955538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, or
< 1273955552 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, just download Gregor's hg repo with the logs in
< 1273955556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot url
< 1273955565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he will love you wasting his bw like that
< 1273955568 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DS (2^x) =
< 1273955589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, anyway I could grep my logs, which go back about a year (older archives on cd)
< 1273955593 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lim k->inf (2^x log(2) - i 2^x (-i H_k - i 2^(k+1) Phi(2,1,k+1) + pi))/k
< 1273955605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will take a while because it is lzma compressed (or bzip2 for older ones)
< 1273955605 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, yeah, I think it's safe to coin DS "Fucked-Up Derivative".
< 1273955612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :switched to xz recently
< 1273955618 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, Limit Sum Derivative; LSD.
< 1273955625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, XD
< 1273955634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, what phrase should I grep on?
< 1273955637 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Try grep atheist
< 1273955642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt...
< 1273955644 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but okay
< 1273955647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, which year?
< 1273955648 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: grep plant | grep grow
< 1273955650 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this year
< 1273955663 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grep plant 10.* | grep grow
< 1273955671 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A "mere" 21% packet loss, but I can't get any freaking Internet connectivity.
< 1273955684 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone got an IP over ICMP tunneling scheme?
< 1273955697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no relevant hits from 2010
< 1273955704 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The LSD of (-1^x) = 0
< 1273955711 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(-1)^x, that is.
< 1273955717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, just uorygl oklopol and fax
< 1273955718 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :pikhq
< 1273955723 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: fax = soupdragon
< 1273955727 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the lsd
< 1273955736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2010-05-01/01_freenode-#esoteric.log.gz:apr 25 14:36:31 <fax>	watch a plant grow: You have witnessed it
< 1273955736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2010-05-01/01_freenode-#esoteric.log.gz:apr 25 14:50:08 <fax>	oklopol: I can prove god exists:  You can see a plant grow
< 1273955737 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> Let Delta^h f(x) = (f(x+h) - f(x))/h.
< 1273955737 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no, not making that up. Anyone got an IP over ICMP tunneling scheme handy?
< 1273955737 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> Let Delta^Sigma f(x) = lim k->inf (sum h=0 to k, Delta^h f(x))/k
< 1273955744 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Delta^Sigma is the LSD, Limit Sigma Derivative.
< 1273955746 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Objectivism states that "Existence exists" and "Existence is Identity." To be is to be "an entity of a specific nature made of specific attributes." That which has no attributes does not and cannot exist. Hence, the axiom of identity: a thing is what it is.
< 1273955754 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LSD (x) = 1
< 1273955756 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LSD (2x) = 2
< 1273955758 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(strange it was .gz...)
< 1273955760 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LSD (x^2) = undefined
< 1273955765 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LSD (2^x) = lim k->inf (2^x log(2) - i 2^x (-i H_k - i 2^(k+1) Phi(2,1,k+1) + pi))/k
< 1273955772 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LSD ((-1)^x) = 0
< 1273955788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, note: dates there are either UTC or CET/CEST
< 1273955792 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect LSD (2^x) is undefined
< 1273955795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, so it may be one day off compared to clog
< 1273955797 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but like hell am i gonna work it out
< 1273955806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't be arsed to calculate which direction
< 1273955814 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: that fit quite well into the surrounding insanity
< 1273955868 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LSD (1/x) = 0
< 1273955871 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what kind of LSD is this!
< 1273955879 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the kind that reduces INT
< 1273955891 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LSD (x/n) = 1/n
< 1273955899 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least
< 1273955904 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wat
< 1273955904 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: What date is it?
< 1273955921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, it says in that line
< 1273955934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, the logs are rotated monthly
< 1273955944 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1st April?
< 1273955944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the dir name is rotation date
< 1273955955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, "<AnMaster> 2010-05-01/01_freenode-#esoteric.log.gz:apr 25 14:36:31 <fax> watch a plant grow: You have witnessed it" <-- "apr 25"
< 1273955958 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see that near the middle
< 1273955971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I think it is Swedish date format for some unknown reason
< 1273956034 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273956037 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> the kind that reduces INT
< 1273956039 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did you mean here :P
< 1273956068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well if you reduce INT you would end up with NAT I guess
< 1273956071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P
< 1273956075 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a pun attempt on integration and intelligence
< 1273956084 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1273956088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay my pun was worse
< 1273956095 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slightly roleplaying inspired
< 1273956106 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I was just about to ask about that yeah
< 1273956124 0 :impomatic!~chatzilla@87.115.109.119 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273956152 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1273956175 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's funny how... silly LSD is.
< 1273956185 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, the results seem almost random.
< 1273956222 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Psychedelic drugs are like that
< 1273956230 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's just A = (f(x+1)-f(x) / 1) + (f(x+2)-f(x) / 2) + (f(x+3)-f(x) / 3) + ...
< 1273956243 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then basically the limit as k->inf of k terms of A / k
< 1273956252 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's because it's the difference "in the large"
< 1273956356 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Sorry, my home computer (and so my logging) is down :P
< 1273956480 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273956511 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273956521 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, hg clone https://codu.org/projects/esotericlogs/hg/ if you'd like.
< 1273956525 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll be a while though :P
< 1273956535 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once I do that myself, I'll update them to today.
< 1273956601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, hm
< 1273956684 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was writing a script to keep a log archive up-to-date, rename files to YYYY-MM-DD, and make the times UTC (including wrapping to other files)
< 1273956690 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I got bored at the wrapping-to-files bit.
< 1273956730 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There, it's up to date.
< 1273956753 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, it will be once I hg push :P
< 1273956759 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now what silly username/password did I use here >_>
< 1273956769 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My personal logs are in a PostgreSQL database, but they're not quite as comprehensive.
< 1273956774 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FIX THE TIMES
< 1273956784 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: "snugglebunnies"
< 1273956789 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There we go :P
< 1273956817 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273956841 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10.02.13:21:12:29 <oerjan> `google snugglebunnies
< 1273956912 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273956920 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thought for a moment Gregor had somehow utterly failed to give HackEgo a command
< 1273956942 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, just snugglebunny-grepping :P
< 1273956956 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<somebody> I'll grep YOUR snugglebunny
< 1273956975 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what she said
< 1273957002 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273957010 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um wait
< 1273957035 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1273957046 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't really make sense with an _actual_ innuendo, does it.
< 1273957144 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273957195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, why not
< 1273957233 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean it doesn't make sense but why is that an issue
< 1273957240 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the whole point is to point out an unintended innuendo
< 1273957246 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, gave up on the relativistic CA yet?
< 1273957263 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEVER
< 1273957264 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEVER!
< 1273957266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hm good point
< 1273957273 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so how is it going?
< 1273957283 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its velocity is 0!
< 1273957290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1273957296 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also 1/2 !
< 1273957301 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 1/3 !
< 1273957306 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and -2/5 !
< 1273957310 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1273957318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, link to last version though?
< 1273957350 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/961891.txt?key=iqkvno8jakp5xeyub3mkq
< 1273957358 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: and sqrt(0) (not 0!)
< 1273957372 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why of course, 0! is 1
< 1273957377 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I WAS ABOUT TO--
< 1273957396 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you think i carefully added spaces
< 1273957415 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1273957463 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273957511 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1273957566 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://nedroid.com/comics/2010-02-04-beartato-popcorn.gif
< 1273957667 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the attack of the killer zombie maize
< 1273957690 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Suggested dessert: http://nedroid.com/imagesb/beartato-ridiculousbeliefsb.gif)
< 1273957921 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273957933 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah everyone knows the earth revolves around me!
< 1273957941 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, me!
< 1273957951 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1273957968 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CAS. LET US RELATIVISE THEM.
< 1273957969 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :infidel!
< 1273957996 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly we just need to bend the grid in funny ways.
< 1273957997 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that was about the "No, me!" not the cas.)
< 1273958032 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: How does the concept of curvature apply to discrete spacetime?
< 1273958050 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1273958052 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't, we bend the image on screen
< 1273958072 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean we bend the screen
< 1273958108 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1273958303 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm...
< 1273958314 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Golly support toroidal universes?
< 1273958329 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :golly, i don't know
< 1273958365 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i doubt
< 1273958368 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :golly lol
< 1273958384 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273958399 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273958411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Phantom_Hoover> CAS. LET US RELATIVISE THEM. <-- what? Relativistic computer algebra systems?
< 1273958420 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool.
< 1273958421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this doesn't even make sense
< 1273958423 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want one.
< 1273958424 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might also be cool.
< 1273958426 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon!
< 1273958430 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pounces soupdragon
< 1273958435 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey augur *hug*
< 1273958437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, oh did you mean CAs?
< 1273958448 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously.
< 1273958465 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd like to be an artist and paint pictures
< 1273958467 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hows it goooin soup?
< 1273958508 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jutst watching quantum physics on youtube
< 1273958532 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sup
< 1273958577 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: i am not entirely sure if soupdragon is a master troll or if alise is a master at being (or pretending to be) trolled
< 1273958595 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both.
< 1273958595 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1273958597 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: meh. i dont care. soup has some interesting in theoretical linguistics
< 1273958598 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so
< 1273958607 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey i've been laughing at him not getting angry
< 1273958611 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION loves augur
< 1273958617 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273958618 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww, a budding romance.
< 1273958623 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D:
< 1273958625 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're not compatable :P
< 1273958625 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dont love me!
< 1273958627 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D:
< 1273958633 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, she's a she
< 1273958635 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope augur is a proponent of the three-dimensions-ONLY plants-imply-God theory.
< 1273958636 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :square ped round hole
< 1273958639 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :peg
< 1273958651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon, ah you need a converter box? Like between dvi/vga or usb/serial
< 1273958652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such
< 1273958653 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :square ped
< 1273958653 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hell, I'm sure you could square the circle
< 1273958654 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1273958658 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly _four_-dimension plants would be the work of the devil
< 1273958658 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION rubs alise's bum
< 1273958660 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With God
< 1273958661 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;o
< 1273958664 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: ...
< 1273958665 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okayyy
< 1273958675 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? she said square ped
< 1273958682 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::|
< 1273958699 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION drinking
< 1273958712 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote * augur rubs alise's bum  [...]  <augur> what? she said square ped  <augur> :|
< 1273958712 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273958717 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :161|* augur rubs alise's bum  [...]  <augur> what? she said square ped  <augur> :|
< 1273958734 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha
< 1273958741 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273958762 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really have no clue what this guy is talking about.. somethign to do with molecular configuartions
< 1273958767 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :non sequitur ad astra
< 1273958769 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1273958790 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does not follow to the star?
< 1273958815 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*stars
< 1273958817 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im reading a book called Anarchy Works
< 1273958828 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it does
< 1273958832 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait...
< 1273958838 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Aster..?
< 1273958847 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does that decline...?
< 1273958882 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Maybe it's like Microsoft Works.
< 1273958891 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm wiktionary has only the plural meaning
< 1273958894 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss anarchy with a "doubt".)
< 1273958902 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a pretty good book
< 1273958905 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ouch
< 1273958905 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it has no copyright
< 1273958920 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fishes, are also not copyrighted.
< 1273958922 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is related.
< 1273958932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well, the issue with it is bullies. Well.. one of the issues
< 1273958942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically anarchy is nice utopia sure
< 1273958946 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The issue with communism is people won't come to work!
< 1273958954 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: hm wiktionary doesn't have aster except as a broken link from the english
< 1273958954 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can make bad critiques of incredibly naive versions of ANY theory.
< 1273958955 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try again.
< 1273958956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, one of the issues maybe
< 1273958970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, anarchy isn't stable
< 1273958971 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The issue with capitalism is that corporations will just go around KILLING everyone for PROFIT!
< 1273958976 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has astra though, which is stars
< 1273958980 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you should read this book
< 1273958982 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll repeat again: <alise> You can make bad critiques of incredibly naive versions of ANY theory.
< 1273958995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you said this yourself some time ago though
< 1273959008 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really that.
< 1273959009 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway.
< 1273959013 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point of it is to go through example after example of why anarchy /can/ work and /can/ be stable
< 1273959027 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: -a plural would normally be neuter... but aster doesn't look neuter.  and wiktionary gives no gender.
< 1273959040 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aster, aster...
< 1273959106 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the original greek is masculine and has no -a (or alpha) in sight
< 1273959109 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E1%BC%80%CF%83%CF%84%CE%AE%CF%81
< 1273959149 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273959150 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm except accusative
< 1273959164 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't know greek grammar
< 1273959195 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: anyway i was just mangling two latin phrases together
< 1273959204 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1273959318 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: oh hm it can _also_ be neuter in greek, http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E1%BC%84%CF%83%CF%84%CF%81%CE%BF%CE%BD
< 1273959348 0 :Alex3012!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded
< 1273959368 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/astrum
< 1273959407 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so it's "Does not follow to the stars."
< 1273959506 0 :Alex3012!~chatzilla@ool-18b989d3.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273959817 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273959850 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There isn't a Life IRC channel, is there?
< 1273959912 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273959921 0 :Alex3012!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273959952 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, I think it would be better to redefine the speed of light in Life as c/1.
< 1273959961 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/c/1/c/2/
< 1273959962 0 :Alex3012!~chatzilla@ool-18b989d3.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273959969 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why?
< 1273959973 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that gliders move at lightspeed?
< 1273959976 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s|c/1|c/2|, you mean.
< 1273959978 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moving at lightspeed shouldn't be possible.
< 1273959988 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because nothing can go faster than c/2
< 1273959996 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a vacuum.
< 1273960010 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems nicer.
< 1273960019 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Seem to recall a "faster-than-lightspeed" hack. :P
< 1273960081 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given that there are theoretical ways for us to go FTL if there is already infrastructure in place, it seems appropriate.
< 1273960122 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing can go /faster/.
< 1273960131 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But nothing should go /as fast/, except light; and GoL has no light, or at least it is implicit.
< 1273960139 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it should be c/3.
< 1273960150 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It doesn't work; it's an illusion.
< 1273960164 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's logically impossible.
< 1273960165 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: is that book ancap?
< 1273960169 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or regular anarchism
< 1273960172 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yeah, that's called scare quotes.
< 1273960222 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: it's probably more socialist anarchism but its got a fairly broad array of ideas. one of its examples is of this multinational corporation that runs on strong anti-authoritarian principles
< 1273960244 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273960245 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Corporations are a kind of authority, really.
< 1273960259 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1273960268 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273960278 0 :alise!~alise@91.104.226.164 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273960280 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoops.
< 1273960283 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<augur> alise: it's probably more socialist anarchism but its got a fairly broad array of ideas. one of its examples is of this multinational corporation that runs on strong anti-authoritarian principles
< 1273960283 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
< 1273960283 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> Corporations are a kind of authority, really.
< 1273960294 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh they are, definitely
< 1273960308 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that wasnt the point of the example :p
< 1273960328 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: iirc the c/2 limit for life is only for _spaceships_.  chaotic disturbances like long lines can travel at c proper.
< 1273960333 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also certainly quite a bit anti-capitalist rhetoric, but it's aimed towwards capitalism qua contemporary evils of capitalism
< 1273960344 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Was the corporation in question presented as a co-operative?
< 1273960347 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not capitalism qua individualist free association sort of markets
< 1273960355 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the least authoritarian form of corporation I know; and it works in practice.
< 1273960373 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yup, seen that, and not even as a hack.
< 1273960387 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: no, its Gore and Associates, a fluoropolymer R&D/manufacturing company
< 1273960405 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Evidence: http://hcoop.net/, http://tech.coop/, and, oh, one of the biggest supermarkets/"other stuffs" in Britain.)
< 1273960411 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: oh, I thought it was a hypothetical
< 1273960417 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no no
< 1273960419 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its actual
< 1273960425 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats the intent of the example
< 1273960436 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Co-operatives are awesome, incidentally.
< 1273960437 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a real corporation that does real corporation stuff but has no hierarchical management
< 1273960449 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole book is nothing but examples of anarchy working
< 1273960456 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for all the things people say it cant work for
< 1273960491 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb gonna shower
< 1273960501 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU COULDN'T SHOWER WITHOUT AUTHORITY
< 1273960528 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants HTTP. D':
< 1273960538 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: use EgoBot as a proxy
< 1273960539 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is feasible.
< 1273960550 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I know.
< 1273960556 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants bandwidth not measured in bits per second
< 1273960833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Phantom_Hoover> s/c/1/c/2/ <-- broken
< 1273960843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a sed expression I mean
< 1273960857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah alise mentioned that below
< 1273960882 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not I
< 1273960911 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273960919 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know.
< 1273960941 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi pooppy!
< 1273960945 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also known as coppro.
< 1273960987 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's crappo
< 1273960988 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get it right
< 1273961031 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awehsddns;klfgbhhdssbjsdhfjkosadhnjvbkoxfncjh;
< 1273961031 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3
< 1273961045 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o hai
< 1273961049 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, now that I think of it, that does look like the Greek word "kopros".
< 1273961055 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DAMMIT GIVE ME MORE THAN 5 PACKETTS PER SECOND
< 1273961068 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Number of packets doesn't really matter as long as they're big enough.
< 1273961072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, which means?
< 1273961080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that greek word I mean)
< 1273961089 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Except that packets can't be big enough.
< 1273961089 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: just some shit
< 1273961093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, XD
< 1273961115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, and you said modem was slower?
< 1273961116 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it means poop or crap or shit or dung or feces or excrement or BM.
< 1273961127 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: In the past, it was.
< 1273961132 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: nothing /exceeds/ c in GoL though right? :D
< 1273961133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, BM? bat manure?
< 1273961138 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bowel movement.
< 1273961139 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no pathological pattern :-P
< 1273961140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1273961146 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Currently, semaphore would be faster.
< 1273961146 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Manure, there's another word.
< 1273961151 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: erm of course not
< 1273961155 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i was joking
< 1273961179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, is it really 5 packets per second?
< 1273961189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that is still slower than semaphore
< 1273961194 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, the Caterpillar is a work of beauty.
< 1273961195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1273961195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faster
< 1273961197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not slower
< 1273961202 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: packets can be arbitrarily large in IPv6!
< 1273961205 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty much, anyway.
< 1273961206 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: *Less* currently.
< 1273961207 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: hm could be fun to put that as an easter egg in a gol program
< 1273961212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, since a packet can contain a lot more than one bit
< 1273961213 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Pity I don't have IPv6!
< 1273961220 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say, a pacman pattern really speeding along
< 1273961222 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah.
< 1273961226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, it is still limited by physical MTU isn't it?
< 1273961234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever it was called
< 1273961243 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :D
< 1273961247 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should learn what MTU is.
< 1273961258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximum_transmission_unit
< 1273961261 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hey can we use chaotic lines and stuff to do >c/2 communication in GoL?
< 1273961266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, that
< 1273961266 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't /have/ to use gliders to communicate, surely
< 1273961290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, the issue with doing communication with them is that they are, uh, chaotic
< 1273961295 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have to use gliders to communicate, but with the appropriate GoL program, gliders are as fast as anything.
< 1273961300 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well they're not /that/ chaotic
< 1273961304 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: not in-universe
< 1273961319 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: There are /many/ >c/2 comms systems.
< 1273961325 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, do we really care about in-universe speed?
< 1273961332 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Are there any =c?
< 1273961333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, there are space fillers too, they are faster iirc?
< 1273961334 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Yes.
< 1273961336 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're Theorists.
< 1273961340 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The lightspeed telegraph.
< 1273961344 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: they fill space at c/4 or something
< 1273961346 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: It's the only meaningful notion of speed *in* Game of Life!
< 1273961348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, oh maybe
< 1273961350 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but we don't need to fill space
< 1273961353 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need to communicate
< 1273961354 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: wut
< 1273961360 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there's a blip which travels through an agar at c.
< 1273961361 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Oh yeah!
< 1273961372 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Do you have Golly?
< 1273961378 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but I can get it in a pinch.
< 1273961382 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, agar???
< 1273961398 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A stable, extensible arrangement of cells.
< 1273961399 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An agar is a pattern that tiles the entire plane.
< 1273961417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, still life?
< 1273961418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or moving?
< 1273961424 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either
< 1273961432 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, I mean, a regular pattern of *** would fit it then
< 1273961439 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are oscillating agars, but they're less common.
< 1273961445 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is an oscillator
< 1273961451 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yeah.
< 1273961452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, the one I mentioned?
< 1273961466 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's not too much reason not to consider that an agar.
< 1273961467 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably, but it doesn't really count.
< 1273961469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too tired to work out minimum distance
< 1273961470 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: So you clearly know a bit about GoL, huh.
< 1273961471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, why not
< 1273961491 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes, though not as much as I'd like.
< 1273961503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, so why doesn't it count ... it seems strange
< 1273961504 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most complex signal circuitry confuses me.
< 1273961506 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: What is the lightspeed telegraph?
< 1273961531 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gliders move at 'lightspeed'
< 1273961540 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: no.
< 1273961542 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a system that sends a signal along a stretched, regular line of beehives at C.
< 1273961545 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they move at c/2
< 1273961550 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: You fail at Life.
< 1273961555 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plenty of things move =c in life
< 1273961560 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and others merely >c/2
< 1273961567 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not move, but have effects at
< 1273961568 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUC
< 1273961568 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUC
< 1273961568 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUC
< 1273961568 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUC
< 1273961569 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUC
< 1273961569 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUC
< 1273961569 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU
< 1273961570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what about non-cardinal gliders? don't they move faster than cardinal ones? Or was that for space ships
< 1273961572 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUC
< 1273961572 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUC
< 1273961572 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUC
< 1273961572 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1273961573 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUC
< 1273961573 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUC
< 1273961573 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUC
< 1273961573 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU
< 1273961574 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUC
< 1273961574 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUC
< 1273961576 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon is seriously fucking unstable
< 1273961576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, !
< 1273961576 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan:
< 1273961583 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oerjan oerjan oerjan!
< 1273961586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, do you job as an op there please :)
< 1273961588 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spamtastic!
< 1273961588 0 :ChanServ!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+o oerjan
< 1273961588 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously just ban her until she, I don't know, stops being crazy???
< 1273961588 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was at Phantom_Hoover
< 1273961594 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+b *!*quantum@unaffiliated/fax
< 1273961598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, her?
< 1273961600 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like maybe a notch down from completely crazy would do
< 1273961602 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: transgender
< 1273961608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh okay
< 1273961612 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh okay what
< 1273961615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever
< 1273961633 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :she's not the first transgendered person we've had here...
< 1273961641 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so transmission at c.
< 1273961643 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This boot, I have gotten 5.4 MiB of data.
< 1273961643 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the other wasn't here for very long iirc
< 1273961655 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: what is the lightspeed telegraphhh
< 1273961675 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a system that sends a signal along a stretched, regular line of beehives at C.
< 1273961690 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's very big and complex, but it works.
< 1273961710 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so what does "whatever" mean
< 1273961715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..
< 1273961722 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's orthogonal, though.
< 1273961728 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: And I take it is impossible to have any c communication without a wire by definition.
< 1273961735 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1273961736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, so why doesn't that pattern I suggested count as an agar?
< 1273961740 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, sort of.
< 1273961742 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't understand what you were trying to say.
< 1273961746 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1273961763 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I take it that Eric Weisstein's Treature Trove of the Game of Life is not the most up-to-date infosource?
< 1273961768 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't have the lightspeed telegraph.
< 1273961781 0 :cahill!~cahill@cev75-2-82-66-208-76.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273961788 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can imagine a really long superstring would transmit through vacuum, but it'd destroy your transmitter and probably the receiver, too.
< 1273961796 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I'm not sure.
< 1273961802 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because the definition of an agar excludes it.
< 1273961815 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There isn't really a central reference source, though LifeWiki is OK.
< 1273961817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, oh? how is it defined then
< 1273961846 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something like "a pattern that tiles the plane and is not just a bunch of wicks or oscillators that don't interact".
< 1273961867 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, it could be a static pattern, didn't Phantom_Hoover say that?
< 1273961874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1273961882 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My definition doesn't exclude static patterns.
< 1273961887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh true
< 1273961901 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, btw, wicks?
< 1273961923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, is the pattern allowed to extend itself, like a space-filler?
< 1273961924 0 :cahill!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION Discounts!! Our Special Limited Time Offers Up To May,22!!!New BranD!! Notebooks,Plasma and LCD TV's.Buy your electronic needs at our unique prices. Laptop Sony VAIO® VGN-FW590FFD-575,57$!!!Apple MacBook® Air MC234LL/A-695,27$!!! http://www.elplace.com/
< 1273961925 0 :cahill!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :K-Lined
< 1273961929 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1D extendible patterns.
< 1273961944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quick kline there
< 1273961951 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A wick is something that's periodic in one dimension only.
< 1273961967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1273962001 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And practical diagonal transmission at C is still elusive.
< 1273962015 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fastest so far is 2c/3.
< 1273962037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, how are the known ones impractical?
< 1273962048 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Known whats
< 1273962050 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's always the one-cell fuse.  :P
< 1273962050 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1273962068 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Known c diagonal transmitters.
< 1273962096 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you can transmit stuff at c diagonally, but the wire is destroyed.
< 1273962108 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: link to something about the lightspeed telegraph?
< 1273962126 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love the Game of Life it's so rich
< 1273962126 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, here's the lightspeed wire, which might be the same thing: http://www.conwaylife.com/wiki/index.php?title=Lightspeed_wire
< 1273962136 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a theorem that it's infinitely rich.  :P
< 1273962152 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's not.
< 1273962159 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but it's like
< 1273962166 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are so many human-interesting-and-comprehendable interacting patterns
< 1273962168 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from such simple rules
< 1273962170 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they're so pretty
< 1273962177 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jason Summers made it, and I think the LST is referenced in an article in the LW article.
< 1273962200 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.yucs.org/~gnivasch/life/lightspeed/index.html
< 1273962210 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The LST is ~2/3 down.
< 1273962241 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273962261 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see it
< 1273962264 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather, i see tons of them
< 1273962281 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1273962281 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see
< 1273962298 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Earlier you mentioned cardinal gliders?
< 1273962309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, yeah cardinal as in befunge
< 1273962316 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't know what it is called
< 1273962320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in GOL
< 1273962334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe it was spaceships
< 1273962338 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Going up or down or sideways?
< 1273962339 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1273962340 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't remember the difference between them
< 1273962345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, yes
< 1273962346 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BEST SIGNAL EVER: http://www.yucs.org/~gnivasch/life/lightspeed/tags.gif
< 1273962346 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's orthogonal.
< 1273962350 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well, okay
< 1273962354 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: WHY
< 1273962361 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BECAUSE IT'S AWESOME
< 1273962363 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has anyone made some sort of theory of physics for GoL?
< 1273962365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, couldn't you have lightspeed-mostly wires btw?
< 1273962367 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, yeah, the bubbles are cool.
< 1273962382 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lightspeed-mostly?
< 1273962387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, as in, non-lightspeed only for turning corners and at the endpoints
< 1273962393 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: well, after studying it for a while, I've discovered that the entire Game of Life universe can be described by a few simple rules.
< 1273962396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but lightspeed for straight stretches
< 1273962398 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273962400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, see what I mean?
< 1273962403 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why wasn't this on autojoin?
< 1273962407 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah.
< 1273962416 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Sarcasm is sarcastic.
< 1273962419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, should be reasonable enough I find
< 1273962425 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it would be bloody complicated, I suppose.
< 1273962432 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh?
< 1273962453 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Life signal circuitry in general is bloody complicated.
< 1273962459 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: No shit. :P
< 1273962460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1273962463 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I mean, something that builds on top of that.
< 1273962468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I quite prefer wireworld myself
< 1273962470 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To describe what "movement" is, since the primitive notions have none.
< 1273962474 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything needs to be *exact*, or else it all blows up.
< 1273962475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :found it a very interesting CA
< 1273962480 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Wireworld is nice.
< 1273962482 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc.
< 1273962492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, and not quite as sensitive
< 1273962492 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this lifewiki is amazing
< 1273962503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, link?
< 1273962521 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hu alise
< 1273962523 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://google.com/search?q=lifewiki
< 1273962529 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: This is why a relativistic CA is silly, because there's no inbuilt idea of speed or individual things.
< 1273962531 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: hu.
< 1273962534 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.conwaylife.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page
< 1273962540 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Above cells, it's all abstraction.
< 1273962566 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, but it lacks the variety of Life.
< 1273962567 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has his computer tethered to his phone via USB, which is getting its Internet access from wifi
< 1273962578 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does what it was meant to do, and well, but that's it.
< 1273962591 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273962614 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't have infinite growth, or replication, or spaceships.
< 1273962653 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, seen that computer in wireworld?
< 1273962658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is quite awesome
< 1273962662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc it is included in golly
< 1273962665 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.conwaylife.com/wiki/index.php?title=Spartan_universal_computer-constructor
< 1273962668 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look at this.
< 1273962669 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jesus christ.
< 1273962677 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Game of Life is just amazing.
< 1273962691 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a computer that controls a universal constructor.
< 1273962700 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not /quite/ universal, but a damn good constructor.
< 1273962708 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Because the machine itself consists exclusively of still lifes with seven or fewer cells, a sufficient program tape would allow the machine to self-replicate forever."
< 1273962718 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1273962728 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Holy Grail of Life.
< 1273962745 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Self-replicators are weirdly elusive.
< 1273962748 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have we yet invented Life computers that can store memory sanely?  :)
< 1273962764 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a Turing machine in Life.
< 1273962765 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm.
< 1273962765 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wireworld has a universal computer
< 1273962772 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: does it construct?
< 1273962774 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a simple Turing Machine in Life.
< 1273962778 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"simple"
< 1273962781 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: No.
< 1273962784 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does look "real", though.
< 1273962795 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant does WireWorld's construct. I guessed not.
< 1273962796 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WW doesn't have construction.
< 1273962797 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wireworld has no constructors at all.  :)
< 1273962799 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Could you hook up the lightspeed telegraph to a memory store?
< 1273962807 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1273962809 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure it's not possible for a wireworld system to build
< 1273962832 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just stick the output to a memory system.
< 1273962849 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: And input?
< 1273962855 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can it be a lightspeed memory-access device?
< 1273962877 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's an idea.  The space around your WireWorld circuit is Game of Life space.  WireWorld-live cells act as live for Game of Life, but not vice versa.  Once there are six live cells (of either type) surrounding a Game of Life cell, it becomes a dead WireWorld cell.
< 1273962888 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any interfacing would be at spaceship speeds.
< 1273962896 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Darn.
< 1273962902 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you cannot build a lightspeed memory?
< 1273962926 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This also provides an obvious way of producing ROM, though ROM is probably less efficient than the memory you already have.  :P
< 1273962934 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Wireworld-live" as in has a wire, or has an electron part?
< 1273962940 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: has an electron part.
< 1273962953 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb
< 1273962967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> Well, not /quite/ universal, but a damn good constructor. <-- you mean garden of eden patterns?
< 1273962978 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Or make some metacells for WW.
< 1273962984 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Universal constructors don't need to construct those!
< 1273962990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there garden of eden still lifes btw?
< 1273962996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, that can't happen
< 1273963011 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be pretty awesome.  :P
< 1273963015 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, I'd assume n.. right. How about GoE-like still lives, where the only parent is the pattern itself?
< 1273963015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I mean, like garden of eden pattern, but can be directly reached from itself
< 1273963018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nowhere else
< 1273963029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since obviously it must be reachable from itself to be a still life
< 1273963045 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, yeah what I said, same second
< 1273963058 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1273963066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, so are there such?
< 1273963071 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I said it first
< 1273963079 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sure don't know of any.
< 1273963088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, reverse order here
< 1273963090 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273963092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was first locally
< 1273963095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*srhug*
< 1273963099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shrug*
< 1273963101 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, we need a Verilog-to-GoL compiler.
< 1273963103 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might possibly be even harder than a garden of eden pattern, since it would have to have only one parent _everywhere_, rather than having no parent _somewhere_, so to speak
< 1273963104 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's check the logs!
< 1273963106 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, VHDL*
< 1273963110 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1273963112 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :-o oerjan
< 1273963120 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Verilog-or-VHDL-to-GoL compiler.
< 1273963125 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, I'm first
< 1273963127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, eh?
< 1273963151 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Garden of Eden pattern only needs to be parentless in one physical location.
< 1273963156 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That will make the entire thing parentless.
< 1273963158 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: a garden of eden pattern can easily contain _parts_ that would have multiple possible parents if the rest of the pattern had
< 1273963181 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it might be that that is essential to make it all work
< 1273963189 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*had any
< 1273963190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1273963193 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With a Garden of Eden still life, however, it can't have two parents anywhere; it must be only-one-parent everywhere.
< 1273963196 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants a pattern that has no descendents!
< 1273963199 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, right
< 1273963222 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notices that pentadecathlon.net is active as of April.
< 1273963225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, but as long as you can't get the whole eden still life?
< 1273963235 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are patterns with no parents; therefore, by the pigeonhole principle, there are patterns with no children.  :P
< 1273963243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have such parts it need to be unstable if any bit of it is removed
< 1273963249 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats uorygl -----###
< 1273963251 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: back to the tournament!
< 1273963252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, no that doesn't follow
< 1273963276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, since we more than one pattern mapping to the same
< 1273963286 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there you have it.
< 1273963299 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two parents with only one child between them?  Clearly, one of the parents is childless.
< 1273963315 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1273963319 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but could there be patterns that are stable still lifes but can't be reached from any other configuration?
< 1273963333 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however on a finite space it _does_ follow that "there are patterns with no parents" <=> "there are patterns with more than one parent"
< 1273963334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, group sex or something ;P
< 1273963339 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: What did you mean by lightspeed memory?
< 1273963346 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(from the pigeonhole principle)
< 1273963348 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By that definition, all sex is group sex.  :P
< 1273963372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, uorygl: http://www.conwaylife.com/wiki/images/9/9d/Grin_preblock_evolution.png
< 1273963379 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even that may not work for infinite space, in fact i think it doesn't
< 1273963405 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.conwaylife.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page
< 1273963407 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1273963408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh lifewiki times out here
< 1273963410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now
< 1273963412 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops! Google Chrome could not connect to www.conwaylife.com
< 1273963418 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, so it wasn't just me
< 1273963420 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, it died seconds ago
< 1273963435 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously us.
< 1273963440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, what?
< 1273963449 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We must have overloaded it.
< 1273963457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I thought you meant US
< 1273963464 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is being ironic
< 1273963486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, what is the difference between a glider and a spaceship
< 1273963506 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A glider is a specific spaceship, the first to be discovered.
< 1273963510 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A glider is a specific spaceship; it's the five-cell one moving diagonally at c/4.
< 1273963526 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A spaceship is any pattern that translates itself.
< 1273963532 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, hm
< 1273963541 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's spaceship 5-1-4.  :P
< 1273963549 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do things like the Fast Forward thingy work?
< 1273963566 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: by detecting the front end of a ship and, if it's there, applying the back end of a ship.
< 1273963568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a
< 1273963569 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah*
< 1273963569 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It creates a LWSS regardless of whether it gets an input.
< 1273963578 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe not.
< 1273963580 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: clearly a still life without any parent but itself must cover nearly the whole space
< 1273963590 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: No, that's it.
< 1273963597 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because otherwise you could put a single, dying pixel somewhere
< 1273963610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, eh?
< 1273963620 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, he has a point, there.
< 1273963625 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273963635 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, so let's look for GoE-like still lives in worlds of a finite size
< 1273963654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, well I excluded non-interacting patterns here
< 1273963659 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1273963659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is
< 1273963665 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ones moving far away or such
< 1273963679 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, better yet, let's do what AnMaster said
< 1273963689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm but
< 1273963695 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe we should just consider unconstructible patterns in general.
< 1273963697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any interacting pattern must destroy it
< 1273963709 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Lag: 29.77]
< 1273963713 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCKING FUCK FUCK
< 1273963725 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WITH A HINT OF FUCK
< 1273963733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like if a glider approaches it can't be allowed to self-repair
< 1273963735 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: What are you connecting wiith.
< 1273963739 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just kill the glider
< 1273963740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, ^
< 1273963748 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Freenode.
< 1273963756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, -_-
< 1273963758 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, killing the glider won't work.
< 1273963762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, exactly
< 1273963768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, that is what I said -_-
< 1273963780 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<AnMaster> like if a glider approaches it can't be allowed to self-repair <AnMaster> or just kill the glider
< 1273963781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see?
< 1273963793 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, OK.
< 1273963861 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, but a glider passing a bit away (would it need 4 cells or such? not sure of exact distance) would be fine. As long as it didn't interact in any way with the pattern
< 1273963868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how large is the required margin for that?
< 1273963890 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 cells empty space, I think
< 1273963905 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure it isn't 3?
< 1273963905 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah.
< 1273963910 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1273963913 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm right
< 1273963940 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The AND NOT gate is universal, right?
< 1273963954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, you mean nand?
< 1273963956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then yes
< 1273963963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc so is nor
< 1273963969 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I mean like p AND NOT q = p AND (NOT q)
< 1273963970 0 :maedhros777!~michael@c-76-118-245-128.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273963972 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1273963979 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think AND NOT is also uiversal.
< 1273963990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? didn't know that
< 1273963998 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not != nand
< 1273964009 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :</obvious>
< 1273964011 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, English is vague
< 1273964017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also
< 1273964035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"and not" could sound like "and followed by not"
< 1273964040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it was gates
< 1273964044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would make a nand
< 1273964067 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all you make an AND gate from a nand and an inverter normally (in CMOS at least)
< 1273964070 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, 1 & !a is !a, so 1 & !(a & !(1 & !b)) is NAND
< 1273964078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, thus it was var from obvious
< 1273964144 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The great thing about WireWorld is that it's really easy to make a PRNG.  :)
< 1273964170 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1273964175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 & !(a & !(1 & !b)) <=> 1(a(1b'))' <=> (a1b)' <=> (ab)'
< 1273964178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, yep
< 1273964182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange notation you used
< 1273964199 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION stress-tests a certain AND NOT gate.
< 1273964202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, oh?
< 1273964218 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What notation are you using?
< 1273964228 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what oh?
< 1273964270 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I may be mistaken about the PRNG thing.
< 1273964297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, ah
< 1273964301 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the "oh"
< 1273964307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that PRNGs were easy
< 1273964309 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273964356 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, challenge: construct a reversible gate in wireworld
< 1273964357 0 :Sgeo_2!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273964357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is
< 1273964365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which actually works if you send signals either way
< 1273964383 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, this one is kind of reversible.
< 1273964401 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, so you can switch inputs with outputs?
< 1273964404 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Call this gate o <= p AND (NOT q).
< 1273964413 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also works as q <= p AND (NOT o).
< 1273964419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1273964443 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, and does it have as many 1 in as out? Other thing required for a reversible one iirc
< 1273964444 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what's to blame for the lag
< 1273964457 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Essentially, it's a deleter: it looks at a wire and deletes a signal whenever it hears a signal coming in the third wire.
< 1273964460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well states with 1 in and out)
< 1273964478 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(obviously not for a given value, see inverter for example)
< 1273964492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, can't be reversible then can it?
< 1273964510 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right.
< 1273964510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if data is lost
< 1273964512 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm.
< 1273964528 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The cross is a gate that works either way.  The problem is, it can only be used to make OR gates, I think.
< 1273964535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1273964548 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't create a 2-in 1-out gate that is reversible.
< 1273964553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, I suspect that reversible gates need to be symetric, I'm not sure though
< 1273964563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in wireworld I mean
< 1273964578 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with that I mean physically symmetric
< 1273964579 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would that be the case?  You can do lots of things in WW that don't affect anything.
< 1273964581 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1273964592 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, well okay, "active elements" then
< 1273964613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure you could add a wire stump that just dies out
< 1273964613 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@84.38.7.214 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273964623 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely you can simulate a symmetric thing with an asymmetric thing.
< 1273964635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, well possibly
< 1273964667 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have one side that has p NAND (not q), one that has (not p) OR q.  Or however that goes.
< 1273964674 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And modulo capitalization.  :P
< 1273964677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, but doing one circuit for one way and another for the other way and then detecting from where the signal came is kind of cheating
< 1273964696 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kind of.
< 1273964720 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grr, my bigger PRNG also stabilized.
< 1273964724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(detection needed to block feedback from output)
< 1273964730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, into a cycle?
< 1273964759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, don't all PRNGs cycle if you wait long enough? I'm not sure this is true.
< 1273964784 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: P and (not Q) is only universal if you also have the constant 1, otherwise you cannot construct anything which is always 1 from it
< 1273964814 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, all finite PRNGs cycle eventually.
< 1273964817 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This PRNG cycled quickly.
< 1273964821 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post's_lattice (if you dare)
< 1273964842 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well, yeah, nothing's universal if you have only one state available to you.  :)
< 1273964876 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: P nand Q is universal as a function of the states given, though
< 1273964884 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(boolean function)
< 1273964942 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273964943 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right.
< 1273964957 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, in WireWorld, all NOT gates have to have clocks anyway.
< 1273964989 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since only one pattern is static.
< 1273965050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, hm?
< 1273965083 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In WireWorld, every pattern that does not consist entirely of dead wire and empty space turns into something else in the next generation.
< 1273965093 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273965094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes
< 1273965110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, but why do you need a clock in an inverter in ww?
< 1273965133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has it been proven?
< 1273965152 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, if no signal goes in, how do you make a signal come out?
< 1273965155 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless 0 isn't just no signal, but something else
< 1273965162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_2, ah depends on how you define 0
< 1273965163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1273965168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can have two-wire signaling
< 1273965188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like fizzie did in that logic circuit in that game
< 1273965192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot it's name
< 1273965205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :transport simulation... *not* simutrans
< 1273965207 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other one
< 1273965256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1273965258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :openttd
< 1273965259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was it
< 1273965271 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: in fact iirc (and trying to read that web page) P and (not Q) generates _precisely_ the class T_0^inf of those functions that have an argument such that the whole function cannot be 1 unless that argument is 1
< 1273965274 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, you wouldn't need a clock with complementary signals right?
< 1273965285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus this could be unclocked completely I think
< 1273965290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :allowing async stuff
< 1273965297 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shall attempt to play with the TCP rate control algorithm
< 1273965305 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not exactly, you still need to generate a signal somewhere
< 1273965310 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, good luck
< 1273965315 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: right.
< 1273965352 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :          RX bytes:7276136 (6.9 MiB)  TX bytes:1575377 (1.5 MiB)
< 1273965356 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, such a circuit would be more resilient against everything not matching up perfectly too
< 1273965374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as the wires did it wouldn't matter if you got a bit of delay with no signal on either
< 1273965666 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1273965749 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273966179 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We are happy to be able to continue to offer episodes of Stargate SG-1 through January 2011."
< 1273966181 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH HAPPY DAY!
< 1273966288 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1273966431 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back
< 1273966442 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Phantom_Hoover> alise: What did you mean by lightspeed memory?
< 1273966448 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :memory that can be written and read to at lightspeed
< 1273966454 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :through a communication path
< 1273966458 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no matter what bit of memory is accessed
< 1273966538 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :phantom meant http://pentadecathlon.com/ not .net btw
< 1273966608 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.9/20100315083431]
< 1273966738 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-243-203-60.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273966974 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.radicaleye.com/DRH/pi.html
< 1273966978 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Life really is the Physics Esolang.
< 1273967031 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[As the number of ticks (t) increases, the population of the entire pattern approximates (pi-2)/720 t^2. At four million ticks, when the images below were captured, this works out to a value of pi correct to two places after the decimal point... so this is not quite the most efficient way to calculate pi.]]
< 1273967038 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The POPULATION APPROXIMATES PI. Seriously.
< 1273967077 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1273967084 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beautiful.
< 1273967092 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273967181 0 :alise!~alise@91.104.226.164 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273967194 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What did I miss?
< 1273967331 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was this procession of colorful cats
< 1273967425 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neat
< 1273967539 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Theory: We live in a relativistic, quantum universe... emulated on a Game of Life pattern.
< 1273967757 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no real way to prove or disprove that
< 1273968012 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course not.
< 1273968019 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a purposefully ridiculous theory
< 1273968075 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there something that emulates rule 110 in Life?
< 1273968090 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., produces still-life pixels and spaces, going downwards, of rule 110's evolution
< 1273968100 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to some initial pattern, preferably settable
< 1273968262 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guys when are you going to buy books from me
< 1273968334 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like which books
< 1273968335 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1273968340 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any books
< 1273968344 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I print and bind them
< 1273968409 0 :augur!~augur@c-68-54-80-152.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273968482 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: by hand?
< 1273968545 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I sew them yes, if I glue them I do it mostly by hand with the help of a roller for the glue
< 1273968591 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bound with only the highest quality gold from free-ranging goldfinches
< 1273968830 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: Any pictures?
< 1273968838 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, what method of printing?
< 1273969319 0 :maedhros777!~michael@c-76-118-245-128.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273969321 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1273969354 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Pictures of the books?
< 1273969377 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiehwurLrNo
< 1273969391 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEIA5ZR8dP0
< 1273969450 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuiKO5X8HSg
< 1273969556 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He prints them by hand, too.
< 1273969574 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: this is very true
< 1273969589 0 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-24-19-39-178.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273969593 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1273969597 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He has this bottle of ink, and he uses his body heat to heat it up so hot that a little bubble forms, displacing the ink and spewing it onto the paper.
< 1273969600 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope these don't doth require sound.
< 1273969610 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT HAS YOUR CAT GOT TO DO WITH BOOKS
< 1273969611 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: not required
< 1273969631 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273969637 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice, though. Very nice.
< 1273969675 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, I think I hereby grant thee a Certificate of Awesome.
< 1273969675 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :myndzi
< 1273969682 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow thanks
< 1273969688 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now... give me a damn book
< 1273969691 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, this WireWorld AND NOT gate.  It's impossible to destroy it by means of incoming signals, but nevertheless, it does not work as expected in all cases.
< 1273969708 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I sell the paperback ones for relatively cheap
< 1273969729 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PAH, PAPERBACK
< 1273969736 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :give me an infinite number of paperbacks, then I'll consider it
< 1273969742 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I could sell them and use the profits to buy a hardback)
< 1273969766 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Paperbacks are nice, I like them especially for smaller books or books I don't intend to read 1000 times or use as a reference constantly
< 1273969823 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would pay good money for a nice hardback Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
< 1273969829 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't found a nicely printed one
< 1273969835 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is good money?
< 1273969840 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :money that is good
< 1273969842 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tru
< 1273969845 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might be best split up into one volume per book
< 1273969849 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the omnibus edition I have is rather unwieldy
< 1273969857 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see, the delay between inputs must be at least 5.  Otherwise, if it gets an incoming signal on the negated side, it will destroy the incoming signal on the non-negated side.
< 1273969880 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: how nice is the typography, I can't tell from the jewtubes
< 1273969895 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I can print up to 1200 DPI
< 1273969903 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that isn't typography.
< 1273969918 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, well I have no control over the typography unless I type it
< 1273969938 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what sources do you print from then? I'm sort of guessing this whole enterprise is not entirely legal :-)
< 1273969940 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if I do have control over the typography it's perfect
< 1273969965 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I "assume" that the books I print for people they have the "rights" to
< 1273969986 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right... but what sources would you, hypothetically, use if printing entirely separately from this operation, and laws didn't exist?
< 1273970012 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Your answer to the Queue question on the BCS370 Test was terrific! "
< 1273970039 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hypothetically if I were to print books in an illegal fashion I would obtain ebooks from whatever site or server I could and in the last case I'd scan it myself and in the last last case I'd type it myself.
< 1273970073 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ebooks, right.
< 1273970098 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should totally type out the entirety of the H2G2 N-ogy.
< 1273970103 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume you have invincible hands.
< 1273970110 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ebooks meaning scanned books or sometimes raw text docs, in which case I'd format it myself in latex
< 1273970118 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(N = 5)
< 1273970130 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XeTeX or plain LaTeX?
< 1273970135 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plain latex
< 1273970138 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The former has more typography and font support.
< 1273970145 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, they're online >.>
< 1273970149 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: No, it has more cocks
< 1273970150 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_2: I own them.
< 1273970158 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm only going to download the ones that I own physically though
< 1273970160 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it supports dumb fonts like TRUE TYPE and whatever
< 1273970168 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: Well, there aren't many good text fonts available for LaTeX.
< 1273970175 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And XeTeX /does/ undeniably have more microtypography support.
< 1273970176 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Very very wrong!
< 1273970190 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, Latex has wonderful microtypography support
< 1273970205 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1273970210 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But XeTeX has better.
< 1273970217 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very highly doubt it
< 1273970234 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, http://nitens.org/taraborelli/latex shut up and print a book in Garamond, now.
< 1273970242 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: Considering it was one of its design aims...
< 1273970247 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can do that
< 1273970264 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273970265 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good.
< 1273970283 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I expect the first hardback, LaTeX-set volume of H2G2 by tomorrow.
< 1273970284 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1273970300 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, who makes money from DNA books?
< 1273970301 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, if possible, yesterday.
< 1273970305 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haha
< 1273970309 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_2: the publishers and presumably whoever inherited the rights
< 1273970311 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but mainly the publishers
< 1273970316 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably his widow
< 1273970319 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't care too much about the publishers
< 1273970336 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: http://www.tex.ac.uk/tex-archive/macros/latex/contrib/microtype/microtype.pdf
< 1273970355 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to figure out if he /has/ a widow
< 1273970366 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jane Belson
< 1273970385 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: I agree that LaTeXZ has superb microtypography support.
< 1273970388 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*LaTeX
< 1273970391 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just that XeTeX extended such.
< 1273970416 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only advantage I see of XeTeX is its ability to support arbitrary fonts essentially
< 1273970427 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, and more convenient Unicode.
< 1273970434 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That too
< 1273970481 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should bind some books in olde-style cases.
< 1273970495 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could
< 1273970525 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate dust jackets
< 1273970548 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could do leather covers, book cases, headbands, bookmark ribbons, bla bloo bla bla
< 1273970563 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All for the low low price of $5,000,000
< 1273970568 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes hahaha
< 1273970616 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The regular old paperbacks at around 8x5" at <400 pages, I charge $8 + 4 for shipping :O
< 1273970640 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how much do you charge for hardbacks?
< 1273970699 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well first let me clarify that hardback also implies a sewn binding. Anyway I charge more so around $25 though I contemplate charging more only because it takes so much time and I haven't been charging for that
< 1273970734 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about a hardback that you re-typeset :P
< 1273970738 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night
< 1273970747 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use expensive book cloth and acid free glues and 100% linen threads and real beeswax and stuff
< 1273970760 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That I retypeset, depends really, I'd probably talk about it in PM and whatever
< 1273970790 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Now! What about FIVE of those!"
< 1273970795 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll get the piggy-bank...
< 1273970862 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... 180 pages, 208 pages, 160 pages, 192-224 pages (UK-US), 229-240 pages (UK-US). But that's paperback, and so useless.
< 1273970899 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So clearly I need to be using my endless bank account. I'll go get Hilbert
< 1273970910 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I try to be cheap
< 1273970940 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My original goal was to provide books cheaply for people, so cheap that only materials costs are covered, and nothing else (so I don't get any profit)
< 1273970983 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think if you re-typeset the entirety of a book series then printed it in hardback by hand you deserve some bloody profit.
< 1273970991 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*print
< 1273970995 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm crazy like that :P
< 1273971010 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: null
< 1273971076 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well ideally I'd want profit (though the profit would go to better supplies since shit is so expensive)
< 1273971101 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're like the Folio Society... except you're only one person and don't require buying like 50 books just to get one
< 1273971111 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha yes
< 1273971111 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, not really much like that at all
< 1273971146 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know! You should... print interactive fiction. In hardback.
< 1273971151 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly this is an excellent, feasible idea.
< 1273971239 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=1415009849&searchurl=an%3Ddouglas%2Badams%26bi%3D0%26bx%3Doff%26ds%3D30%26sortby%3D1%26x%3D58%26y%3D14
< 1273971252 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: LOOKS LIKE YOU'VE BEEN OUTBID BY Ł1252
< 1273971274 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha
< 1273971349 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I kind of have an urge to try and typeset h2g2 now :/
< 1273971378 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do it
< 1273971381 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I will print
< 1273971493 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not so good at typesetting prose with LaTeX though.
< 1273971500 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't really done it before.
< 1273971504 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MS Word
< 1273971549 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck no; Adams (the second Macintosh owner in the UK) would roll in his grave... as would typography.
< 1273971557 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus, you know, I find Word much less usable than LaTeX.
< 1273971632 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay fine GROFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
< 1273971638 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LULZ GROFF
< 1273971641 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be so cool if you used groff
< 1273971643 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would be so happy
< 1273971644 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Fortunately for you, TeX is very, very capable of typesetting prose. :)
< 1273971654 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The author of groff is awesome, just look at http://jclark.com/bio.htm
< 1273971664 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I was educated at Charterhouse. I read Mathematics and Philosophy at Merton College, Oxford, where I obtained Class I Honours." + that picture
< 1273971664 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha
< 1273971668 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could he be more upper-class
< 1273971679 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Answer: Only if he was the Queen
< 1273971682 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes, but not by much.
< 1273971689 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Kings are lower-class than queens.)
< 1273971700 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[gtn]roff is so classy
< 1273971709 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love anyone who typesets documents with it
< 1273971717 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Having said that I have a completely un-classy friend who goes to Oxford... but not Merton College, so there.
< 1273971720 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love them more if they typeset mathematics with it
< 1273971727 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> alise: Fortunately for you, TeX is very, very capable of typesetting prose. :)
< 1273971730 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but http://www.tex.ac.uk/tex-archive/macros/latex/contrib/microtype/microtype.pdf
< 1273971735 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO SET THESE TO
< 1273971740 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: Eqn, dude! Eqn!
< 1273971742 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eqn
< 1273971746 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I know!
< 1273971748 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK YEAH EQN http://www.kohala.com/start/troff/v7man/eqn/eqn2e.ps
< 1273971750 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love when people use EQN
< 1273971759 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: SOMETHING ABOUT YOUR MOTHER
< 1273971761 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LEAVES SUMS AT A SMALL SIZE NO MATTER WHAT FUCK YEAH
< 1273971770 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LITTLE SIGMA SITTING AROUND THERE AIN'T DOIN' SHIT
< 1273971791 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: hahaha. I just like how old-style it looks, sort of.
< 1273971794 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love how eqn fails horribly at tall square roots
< 1273971797 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at http://www.kohala.com/start/troff/v7man/eqn/eqn2e.ps
< 1273971800 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, it looks like a typesetter actually typeset it
< 1273971804 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes hahaha I saw
< 1273971811 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the huge symbol
< 1273971824 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But still, I *like* that
< 1273971828 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eqn looks like the kind of stuff you see in old books, yeah
< 1273971831 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: i like it apart from the raggedness
< 1273971850 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think TeX-style typesetting became needed when mathematical notation got really huge and crufty and complex
< 1273971858 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1273971859 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because we really needed something that could size any damn equation
< 1273971863 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no matter what
< 1273971866 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes haha
< 1273971890 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lout is like the latex groff
< 1273971920 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know nothing of Lout
< 1273971992 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems like ATM i've got about modem-level speed. But hell, at this point I'LL TAKE IT.
< 1273972004 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That at least means I'm getting packets!
< 1273972049 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: ftp://ftp.cs.usyd.edu.au/jeff/lout/lout-3.38-user.ps.gz
< 1273972053 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :user guide to lout
< 1273972073 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it groff-made-latex or latex-made-groff? I know it's based on a functional language.
< 1273972090 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :groff-made-latex-ish
< 1273972104 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you look at it, you'll think groff made it
< 1273972121 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The style of things is very groffy
< 1273972129 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's more programmatic like latex
< 1273972147 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it has decent math support
< 1273972217 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish there was a digital typesetting system that produced results that look like the old, pre-computer typesettings.
< 1273972221 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing quite reaches that level.
< 1273972251 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sadly, TeX is the closest there is.
< 1273972278 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not sad really. I mean, I am kind of happy it can't be replicated
< 1273972292 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why?
< 1273972303 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is more convenient to use computers; if we can have convenience and quality, that is all the better.
< 1273972305 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly for faggy reasons like that typesetters (human ones) have their mark in history and even a computer can't do their job :)
< 1273972310 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And LilyPad tries very hard to manage it for music.
< 1273972313 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nostalgia for older, more difficult ways isn't productive.
< 1273972322 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Typesetting is a dead profession, so we can only try to improve the state of play.
< 1273972330 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I don't think it's necessarily better quality
< 1273972333 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: *LilyPond.
< 1273972338 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. That.
< 1273972341 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just think so many people suck at typing these days. By typing I mean typesetting
< 1273972347 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the computer
< 1273972356 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most people just whip something up and publish it :(
< 1273972359 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: Well, I don't know. Traditional typesetting has some sort of precise quality that its digital counterpart lacks.
< 1273972360 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am very sad about that
< 1273972381 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just seems to be, somehow, perfect by less than a "pixel".
< 1273972386 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will you be sad if programming becomes obsolete due to the Singularity?
< 1273972390 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm speaking metaphorically -- bullshitting, that is -- here, but you know what I mean.
< 1273972412 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_2: I kind of think a singularity would adjust my value system so I don't value things like that, because valuing things that aren't there any more would make me less happy.
< 1273972414 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I sort of get what you mean. I still think its the authors' fault
< 1273972416 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: Well, you see, traditional typesetting was done by people who had labored long to become experts in the craft.
< 1273972424 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: *it's; sorry, I arguably have OCD.
< 1273972427 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1273972432 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MUST. CORRECT. GRAMMAR
< 1273972435 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I missed the '
< 1273972446 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, but you just used incorrect grammar!
< 1273972447 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Modern typesetting is done by retards who think Word is a replacement for a good typesetter.
< 1273972456 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yeah :((((((((((((((((((((((((
< 1273972460 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(even though it, at *best*, is a replacement for a freaking typewriter)
< 1273972476 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fine; MUST. CORRECT. ORTHOGRAPHY
< 1273972481 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would LyX be a replacement for?
< 1273972499 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't replace anything
< 1273972515 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LyX seems to me perennially useless.
< 1273972531 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want precise typesetting, you need to tweak, analyse, even specify, so you need plain LaTeX.
< 1273972543 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to take notes, or make a quick document, it is too heavy.
< 1273972545 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LyX is just easier for people, but unfortunately it churns out meh results
< 1273972554 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People think that if something uses latex, it's automagically pretty
< 1273972582 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is true for simple typesetting purposes.
< 1273972584 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION likes automagically pretty
< 1273972601 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: Have you ever used ConTeXt?
< 1273972611 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why shouldn't my homework look somewhat nice
< 1273972612 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've looked at it but have had no desire to.
< 1273972614 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently it's more focused on publishing than LaTeX.
< 1273972620 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am perfectly fine with (La)TeX
< 1273972622 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It is especially suited for structured documents, automated document production, very fine typography, and multi-lingual typesetting."
< 1273972622 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And use styles defined by someone else, because I'm clueless
< 1273972637 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ConTeXt from the ground up is a typography and typesetting system meant to provide users easy and consistent access to advanced typographical control—important for general-purpose typesetting tasks. The original vision of LaTeX is to insulate the user from typographical decisions—a useful approach for submitting, say, articles for a scientific journal."
< 1273972643 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_2: There's no problem with using other styles and stuff
< 1273972659 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence, the fact that I'm clueless about what makes something look goo
< 1273972661 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*good
< 1273972666 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_2: The problem is when people use another person's style then they deviate from it
< 1273972676 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"well *I* want it *THIS* way"
< 1273972686 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/me makes a change to the style
< 1273972697 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"HM I also want this margin a little smaller"
< 1273972702 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/me makes another change
< 1273972717 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and these adjustments just ruin it.
< 1273972726 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would be too clueless to attempt something like tha
< 1273972728 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*that
< 1273972735 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_2: Talk to a typesetter then :)
< 1273972739 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But how can minor adjustments "ruin" something?
< 1273972761 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_2: That minor dent in that Ferrari ruins it
< 1273972776 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does?
< 1273972787 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Of course from a functional standpoint it doesn't.
< 1273972809 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION remembers arguing with his dad about some scratch or something in the new car his dad was going to buy. I didn't really care, my dad did.
< 1273972820 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I care about the content and aesthetics of a document.
< 1273972840 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some minor changes are okay, but most often the minor changes are made by someone clueless
< 1273972841 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_2: even from a functional standpoint,
< 1273972849 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the brain/visual system is very sensitive to minor typographical changes
< 1273972854 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is why we have the concept of "rhythm"
< 1273972864 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because unless there is a very simple, monotonous rhythm to a text, it's harder to read
< 1273972872 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, makes sense
< 1273972892 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if a document uses the same style througout, then wouldn't that be preserved, even if the style is different?
< 1273972910 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man. Reading stuff typeset by TeX makes me really wish that all computer text display was as well-done.
< 1273972922 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_2: If you change a well-set margin, you ruin the flow.
< 1273972941 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_2: It depends on the changes. Not all changes ruin everything. Some changes can be beneficial
< 1273972959 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But changing all headings to bold-italic-underline in Papyrus is ugly
< 1273972986 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, which is better/worse: Snapdragon processor, or 866MHz Pentium III
< 1273973014 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Snapdragon is better, almost certainly.
< 1273973021 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It being a modern, 1GHz processor.
< 1273973027 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: Ew, Papyrus.
< 1273973041 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is trying to decide on a typeface to have a go at typesetting H2G2 in.
< 1273973047 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It needs to be really, really British.
< 1273973068 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Garamond doesn't seem to sit right. It's too flowery, too subtly-serifed-at-the-edges.
< 1273973083 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Minion seems too... wimpy?
< 1273973091 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't you want a serif font?
< 1273973095 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course I do.
< 1273973100 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, of course he d
< 1273973103 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, he said
< 1273973104 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Runes!
< 1273973106 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, I mean, look: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e0/AdobeGaramondSp.svg
< 1273973107 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273973112 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION frowns at not being able to remember the meaning of this sentence.
< 1273973113 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Little tweaks and curves at the edges.
< 1273973116 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate Kesyyntymisen alkuaikoina koirasta on ollut hyĂ¶tyĂ¤ varoittavana vahtina sekĂ¤ jĂ¤tteensyĂ¶jĂ¤nĂ¤.
< 1273973118 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The early days of domestication, dogs have been useful as well as a warning vahtina jĂ¤tteensyĂ¶jĂ¤nĂ¤.
< 1273973125 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just not something that seems to fit the text.
< 1273973129 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Sans-serif not on computer screens should make everyone cry.
< 1273973136 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION waits for alise to explain that learning a language is not about learning the meaning of each individual sentence.
< 1273973137 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: baskerville
< 1273973151 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: Yes, I'm thinking Baskerville.
< 1273973164 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Baskerville is one of my favoritest fonts ever
< 1273973167 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, as someone explained to me, that's actually ". . . have been useful as a warning as well as as trash-eaters".
< 1273973173 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's certainly British.
< 1273973175 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, that's a lot of ass.
< 1273973179 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is classy, old, pretty, hardcore, yes british
< 1273973182 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Link to something to show me what Baskerville looks like?
< 1273973191 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_2: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baskerville
< 1273973191 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is elegant but not flowery (like garamond)
< 1273973203 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the H2G2 omnibus I have may be typeset in Baskerville.
< 1273973230 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: In order to learn a language, you should use said language.
< 1273973233 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:D
< 1273973235 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except for that uppercase Q, it looks ordinary
< 1273973243 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it doesn't
< 1273973246 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not at all 0%
< 1273973247 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I like "flowery"
< 1273973251 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks wonderful
< 1273973259 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flowery *can* be nice
< 1273973262 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Baskerville's uppercase Q is quite unique.
< 1273973272 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing wrong with flowery. But you have to choose the face that fits the text.
< 1273973280 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there is one thing H2G2 is not, it is flowery.
< 1273973283 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: He's saying the rest of the text looks ordinary
< 1273973286 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah.
< 1273973294 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I DISAGREE >:(
< 1273973295 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, most typefaces look ordinary to most people.
< 1273973301 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The numbers are quite nice
< 1273973304 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They probably shouldn't be noticed; the whole point is to support flow.
< 1273973306 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, well, interesting
< 1273973313 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I can't deride him for his (uninformed) opinion.
< 1273973322 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most people think MS Comic Sans is a perfectly workable font.
< 1273973322 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because they're old-style, which is probably what you are noticing
< 1273973344 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_2: Why interesting? Because they are text figures?
< 1273973350 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It's not that really, just some people can't tell the difference between two fonts
< 1273973366 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_2: Numbers are /meant/ to hang below the baseline.
< 1273973385 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was more noticing the way that some numbers were above others, I think
< 1273973388 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I *guess* I could learn Finnish by talking to people who speak only Finnish.
< 1273973393 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But without that, they still look interesting
< 1273973400 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: do you like Hoefler & Frere-Jones?
< 1273973403 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say yes
< 1273973403 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would speak entirely using the nominative, accusative, and genitive, though.  :P
< 1273973413 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The italics look nice. But the regular letters.. are just letters
< 1273973431 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's a good thing
< 1273973466 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes of course. They make a lot of classy fonts
< 1273973479 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: do you like Didot?
< 1273973479 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, Baskerville looks absolutely gorgeous.
< 1273973480 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say no
< 1273973502 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The font itself costs money?
< 1273973506 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_2: lol
< 1273973509 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_2: so naive :)
< 1273973515 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is there a free Baskerville font somewhere?
< 1273973519 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_2: Yes, welcome to professional fonts.
< 1273973530 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was hoping I could use it for homework or something
< 1273973536 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am pretty sure there's a free version out there.
< 1273973538 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_2: >_>
< 1273973540 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Typeface designers make a nice living from their works, as do digitisers.
< 1273973541 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Be amazed that there *exist* free fonts that don't gouge your eyes out.
< 1273973556 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps it shouldn't be so, perhaps it's yet another instance of that abuse known as copyright.
< 1273973558 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is, probably.
< 1273973560 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1273973560 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that is how it is.
< 1273973577 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_2: I feel *embarrassed* to typeset something in baskerville that isn't something I'm very proud of
< 1273973594 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though, as a typeface itself cannot be copyrighted, you would be perfectly free to create your own .ttf file of Baskerville.
< 1273973604 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Didot is a wonderful font
< 1273973613 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: *typeface; come on, let's be pretentious.
< 1273973648 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: what
< 1273973648 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno; I found some series of typefaces describing themselves on Flickr and set in Didot was "I am a whore." I couldn't disagree.
< 1273973660 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: Didot is a typeface not a font :(
< 1273973666 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather... a group of typefaces, but shut up
< 1273973676 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: fuck da police
< 1273973681 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Literally)
< 1273973683 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Anyway I was kidding
< 1273973688 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: Good <3
< 1273973694 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not like Didot, I think a lot of it is very fugly
< 1273973698 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's Didot?
< 1273973703 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Didot_(typeface)
< 1273973710 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's French.
< 1273973719 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think of "that pretentious French font that looks like wine and cheese".
< 1273973722 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're thinking of Didot.
< 1273973735 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: Yeah, I don't find Didot readable; it's like an artistic manifesto gone wrong.
< 1273973743 0 :augur!~augur@c-68-54-80-152.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273973758 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it seems that the bits that are thick are not so important and the bits that are thin that are important, so you feel like you're reading a reverse image of sorts...
< 1273973804 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides that H2G2 isn't Hoefler Text
< 1273973814 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm just iterating through my favourite typefaces...)
< 1273973815 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have much to say about typography, but I really like Adobe Caslon Pro.
< 1273973817 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: it's like half the letters were just sheared at some angle
< 1273973822 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It probably isn't Mercury.
< 1273973824 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and other letters were made into okay italics
< 1273973834 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Caslon is quite nice.
< 1273973840 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Caslon is great
< 1273973864 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Courier!
< 1273973865 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The italic J is problematic though; I always read it as an F.
< 1273973867 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1273973875 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I love courier
< 1273973883 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This italic J? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:CaslonSp.svg
< 1273973887 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: Hopefully not for text.
< 1273973891 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Yes.
< 1273973900 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Well no shit
< 1273973912 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Code listings and what have you
< 1273973917 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Reply to Courier for disambiguity: O0
< 1273973945 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: I dunno, I don't see any reason code should be monospaced. IMO we should embrace what the mathematicians found; that rich notation is useful.
< 1273973964 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like we're still at the analogy of the "writing out equations in words with minimal symbols" stage.
< 1273973967 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not useful for computers
< 1273973971 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, the word "awkward" would be much less awkward if it were spelled "acquard".  Except that's not really a valid way to spell that.
< 1273973975 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK alise, you go have fun with Fortress, we'll keep using real languages.
< 1273973978 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a failing of computers.
< 1273973981 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I don't support Fortress.
< 1273973981 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Auquard", on the other hand... I like that spelling.
< 1273973993 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: And are you really dismissing all programming language research?
< 1273974006 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As a programming language researcher ... yes.
< 1273974007 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Gee, nice idea, kid... too bad it's not in a REAL language, like C."
< 1273974009 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Gee, nice idea, kid... too bad it's not in a REAL language, like C."
< 1273974014 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[and so on]
< 1273974022 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: It's easy to print, it's easy to write, it's easy to read, no syntax has to be learned...or minimal at least, and there are enough things to tell things apart
< 1273974033 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: wow, you managed to get all that out of "you go have fun with Fortress, we'll keep using real languages"?
< 1273974034 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Real programming (tm) is not like math at all
< 1273974045 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll never be that skilled at reading between the lines.
< 1273974060 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We aren't going to use weirdo identifiers to denote NumberOfCustomers
< 1273974061 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: The pattern was obvious, and I've observed facets of it in Gregor before: "[Thing we should do]" "I reject that because it hasn't already been done"
< 1273974064 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: I nose, it's amazo.
< 1273974074 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: I didn't say we should use mathematical notation.
< 1273974084 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: No, that's just how I express that it's a terrible idea.
< 1273974087 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said we should embrace the /lesson/ of mathematical notation: that something more than text is useful.
< 1273974105 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: It's also harder to input
< 1273974109 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, I should really learn not to express ideas too radical in the... esoteric... programming... languages... channel...
< 1273974118 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, mathematical notation isn't that hard to type.
< 1273974122 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean for jebus christ's sake, inputting math isn't even all that easy
< 1273974123 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: Of course; that's a failing of current input designs. We can't go all-out like mathematical notation. I didn't say I knew the happy medium.
< 1273974125 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Yes it is
< 1273974126 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just said we should find it.
< 1273974132 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it depends on your editor.
< 1273974134 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, it should always be easy to input on computers.
< 1273974139 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Radical idea: Time is a dodecahedron!
< 1273974152 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Time is a dodecahedron" is a type error.
< 1273974153 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_2: I AGREE.
< 1273974159 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're a type error
< 1273974164 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: We should definitely input programs using NOTHING BUT KANJI
< 1273974172 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except hmm, maybe that actually makes sense.
< 1273974185 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: Ooooooooooh print Alice's Adventures in Wonderland and Through the Looking Glass
< 1273974204 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, suppose that the domain of physics' time variable is a dodecahedron, with calculus and everything defined in the natural way...
< 1273974211 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: you're supposed to ask me for math books and stuff
< 1273974216 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: I know.
< 1273974225 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you said "any books", so I am happily misinterpreting to infinity.
< 1273974227 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, I have no idea how that would work.
< 1273974232 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: any books is true
< 1273974243 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: wait, are you saying we can get any book?
< 1273974253 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most books
< 1273974261 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would love to have changed scientific thought in a correct way entirely by accident
< 1273974274 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_2: Feynman did that, on a very small scale.
< 1273974291 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1273974294 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm?
< 1273974296 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: Print "Making Resin for Dummies".
< 1273974303 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone handed him a huge, indecipherable diagram and started spieling about it.
< 1273974315 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feynman just plain did a lot.
< 1273974328 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So he found a random symbol, guessed that it denoted a valve, and said, "Uh... what happens if this valve gets stuck?"
< 1273974345 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feynman was an algorithm that turned women into algorithms that turn bongos into theorems.
< 1273974349 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He was the first metamathematician.
< 1273974359 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the guys looked at that spot for a moment, and said, "Gosh, you're absolutely right."
< 1273974366 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And so they thought he was a genius.
< 1273974371 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which, you know, was kind of true.
< 1273974383 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A first-order mathematician, indeed!
< 1273974399 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was the diagram about, and what were the consequences?
< 1273974409 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or are you making it up, because Google's not giving me any love
< 1273974411 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to grab my copy of "Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman!" from parent's house...
< 1273974414 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everyone listen to my fave song http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGK84Poeynk
< 1273974428 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The diagram was of some piece of machinery that processed nuclear material.
< 1273974440 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If that mistake hadn't been caught... something really bad might have happened.  :P
< 1273974518 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: listen to my fave song
< 1273974531 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who's it by and what's it about?
< 1273974541 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Symphony of Science
< 1273974566 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it program music?
< 1273974601 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's good music end of story
< 1273974645 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: çż’ č‹±čŞž or else ç§ will keep on ä˝żing ćĽ˘ĺ­— at ĺ›. Oh, and yes, this ćŻ, ä¸­ çśź, ĺ‹żäş‹ but č‹±čŞž. :P
< 1273974655 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh heh, "Sinfonia Domestica".
< 1273974670 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A symphony about stuff that happens around the house.
< 1273974700 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: fucking fuck or else fuckers will keep on fucking fucking at fuck. Oh, and yes, this fucker, fucking fucker, fucked but fucking fucks
< 1273974734 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate çż’ č‹±čŞž or else ç§ will keep on ä˝żing ćĽ˘ĺ­— at ĺ›. Oh, and yes, this ćŻ, ä¸­ çśź, ĺ‹żäş‹ but č‹±čŞž
< 1273974736 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learn English or else private will keep on making ing character at jun. Oh, and yes, this is, in truth, do not matter but in English
< 1273974776 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do believe that went through as Chinese.
< 1273974788 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep.
< 1273974800 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worked surprisingly well, though.
< 1273974813 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto jp en çż’ č‹±čŞž or else ç§ will keep on ä˝żing ćĽ˘ĺ­— at ĺ›. Oh, and yes, this ćŻ, ä¸­ çśź, ĺ‹żäş‹ but č‹±čŞž
< 1273974815 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learn English or else private will keep on making ing character at jun. Oh, and yes, this is, in truth, do not matter but in English
< 1273974823 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly the same?
< 1273974826 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Learn English or else I will keep on using kanji at you. Oh, and yes, this is, in fact, nothing but English."
< 1273974843 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto zh en çż’ č‹±čŞž or else ç§ will keep on ä˝żing ćĽ˘ĺ­— at ĺ›. Oh, and yes, this ćŻ, ä¸­ çśź, ĺ‹żäş‹ but č‹±čŞž
< 1273974845 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learn English or else private will keep on making ing character at jun. Oh, and yes, this is, in truth, do not matter but in English
< 1273974846 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1273974847 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will keep on learning English, or else use kanji ing at you. Oh, and yes, this Shi true medium, but ĺ‹żäş‹ English
< 1273974848 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF?
< 1273974866 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's Google's actual translation from Japanese.
< 1273974871 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm.
< 1273974875 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you suck at Japanese
< 1273974885 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto zh en ă‚¦ă‚Łă‚­ă—ă­ă‚¸ă‚§ă‚Żăă®ăźă‚ă®ĺŤĺ‰Ťç©şé–“ć–°č¨­ă«é–˘ă™ă‚‹ćŠ•çĄ¨ăŚčˇŚăŞă‚Źă‚Śă¦ă„ăľă™ă€‚ćŠ•çĄ¨ćśźé™ăŻă€5ćś30ć—Ąă§ă™ă€‚
< 1273974888 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Voting period ăŻ, May 30 ă§ă™.
< 1273974899 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto zh en ă‚¦ă‚Łă‚­ă—ă­ă‚¸ă‚§ă‚Żăă®ăźă‚ă®ĺŤĺ‰Ťç©şé–“ć–°č¨­ă«é–˘ă™ă‚‹ćŠ•çĄ¨ăŚčˇŚăŞă‚Źă‚Śă¦ă„ăľă™ă€‚
< 1273974903 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ă‚¦ ă‚Ł ă‚­ ă— ă­ _ GUI ă‚§ ă‚Ż Suites Circular ta ă® ă® ă« former space off the new line na si ru voting ga i ma si ă‚Ź ă‚Ś ă¦.
< 1273974915 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Former space off the new line!
< 1273974962 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, PdaNet has a trial period thing. After the trial period, I can't use https:// anymore
< 1273974981 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Try translating from Japanese?
< 1273975099 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: ă„ă„ăă€ć—Ąćś¬čŞžăŚă©ă‚“ă©ă‚“ä¸Šć‰‹ă«ăŞă‚‹ă€‚ăťă‚ŚăŚć—Ąćś¬čŞžăă‚ăŞăŹă¦ă€ćĽ˘ĺ­—ă§ć›¸ă„ăźč‹±čŞžă ăŁăźă€‚
< 1273975113 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ă§ă‚‚ă€ă“ă‚ŚăŻćś¬ĺ˝“ă«ć—Ąćś¬čŞžă ă€‚
< 1273975162 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how that gets mangled.
< 1273975171 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate ă„ă„ăă€ć—Ąćś¬čŞžăŚă©ă‚“ă©ă‚“ä¸Šć‰‹ă«ăŞă‚‹ă€‚ăťă‚ŚăŚć—Ąćś¬čŞžăă‚ăŞăŹă¦ă€ćĽ˘ĺ­—ă§ć›¸ă„ăźč‹±čŞžă ăŁăźă€‚
< 1273975173 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Japanese, not that it was written in English characters.
< 1273975183 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1273975206 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What did it even do with the first sentence?
< 1273975209 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate ă„ă„ăă€ć—Ąćś¬čŞžăŚă©ă‚“ă©ă‚“ä¸Šć‰‹ă«ăŞă‚‹ă€‚
< 1273975211 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, the Japanese have become increasingly well.
< 1273975215 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ă˝(Â´ăĽď˝€)ăŽ
< 1273975217 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1273975225 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Wow* that mangles it.
< 1273975254 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't expecting perfection, what with Japanese being very context-dependent, but... Damn.
< 1273975257 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just *bad*.
< 1273975268 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate ă§ă‚‚ă€ă“ă‚ŚăŻćś¬ĺ˝“ă«ć—Ąćś¬čŞžă ă€‚
< 1273975270 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, this is really Japanese.
< 1273975282 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate  (ďľ‰ďľźÎżďľź)ďľ‰ďľâ…ă‚śă»ă€‚ă€‚ă»ă‚śă‚śă»ă€‚ă€‚ă»ă‚śâ†ă‚śă»ă€‚ă€‚ă»ă‚śă‚śă»ă€‚ă€‚ă»ă‚ś
< 1273975283 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- Â°
< 1273975284 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a workable translation.
< 1273975367 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :( ďľźâ€ďľź)ď˝±ďľŠďľŠĺ…«ĺ…«ďľ‰ă˝ďľ‰ă˝ďľ‰ă˝ďľ‰ ďĽĽ / ďĽĽ/ ďĽĽ ä¸€äşŚä¸‰â”»â”â”» ä¸€äşŚä¸‰â”»â”â”» ä¸€äşŚä¸‰â”»â”â”» ä¸€äşŚä¸‰â”»â”â”» ä¸€äşŚä¸‰â”»â”â”»}ă€‚ă€…Â°)ďľ‰
< 1273975508 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto jp en éżćł˘ç˝—8ĺŹ·ćŻéżćł˘ç˝—č®ˇĺ’ä¸­çš„ç¬¬äşŚć¬ˇč˝˝äşşéŁžčˇŚä»»ĺŠˇďĽŚä¸‰ä˝Ťć‰§čˇŚć­¤ä»»ĺŠˇçš„ĺ®‡čŞĺ‘ĺ†ĺ«ä¸şćŚ‡ä»¤é•żĺĽ—ĺ…°ĺ…‹Â·ĺŤšĺ°”ć›Ľă€ćŚ‡ä»¤č±é©ľé©¶ĺ‘č©ąĺ§†ć–ŻÂ·ć´›ĺ¨ĺ°”ä»ĄĺŹŠç™»ćśč±é©ľé©¶ĺ‘ĺ¨ĺ»‰Â·ĺ®‰ĺľ·ć–Żă€‚
< 1273975511 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Members &#23041;&#24265;&#23433;&#24503;&#26031;.
< 1273975518 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Useful.  :P
< 1273975540 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: thats chinese not japanese.
< 1273975552 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto ch en éżćł˘ç˝—8ĺŹ·ćŻéżćł˘ç˝—č®ˇĺ’ä¸­çš„ç¬¬äşŚć¬ˇč˝˝äşşéŁžčˇŚä»»ĺŠˇďĽŚä¸‰ä˝Ťć‰§čˇŚć­¤ä»»ĺŠˇçš„ĺ®‡čŞĺ‘ĺ†ĺ«ä¸şćŚ‡ä»¤é•żĺĽ—ĺ…°ĺ…‹Â·ĺŤšĺ°”ć›Ľă€ćŚ‡ä»¤č±é©ľé©¶ĺ‘č©ąĺ§†ć–ŻÂ·ć´›ĺ¨ĺ°”ä»ĄĺŹŠç™»ćśč±é©ľé©¶ĺ‘ĺ¨ĺ»‰Â·ĺ®‰ĺľ·ć–Żă€‚
< 1273975553 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Members &#23041;&#24265;&#23433;&#24503;&#26031;.
< 1273975555 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know.  I'm wondering what will happen if I translate from the wrong language
< 1273975583 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: do you like exljbris?
< 1273975590 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto zh en éżćł˘ç˝—8ĺŹ·ćŻéżćł˘ç˝—č®ˇĺ’ä¸­çš„ç¬¬äşŚć¬ˇč˝˝äşşéŁžčˇŚä»»ĺŠˇďĽŚä¸‰ä˝Ťć‰§čˇŚć­¤ä»»ĺŠˇçš„ĺ®‡čŞĺ‘ĺ†ĺ«ä¸şćŚ‡ä»¤é•żĺĽ—ĺ…°ĺ…‹Â·ĺŤšĺ°”ć›Ľă€ćŚ‡ä»¤č±é©ľé©¶ĺ‘č©ąĺ§†ć–ŻÂ·ć´›ĺ¨ĺ°”ä»ĄĺŹŠç™»ćśč±é©ľé©¶ĺ‘ĺ¨ĺ»‰Â·ĺ®‰ĺľ·ć–Żă€‚
< 1273975593 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Members ĺ¨ĺ»‰ĺ®‰ĺľ·ć–Ż.
< 1273975594 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really want Calluna, http://www.josbuivenga.demon.nl/calluna.html
< 1273975606 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto zh en ĺ¨ĺ»‰ĺ®‰ĺľ·ć–Ż
< 1273975608 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ĺ¨ĺ»‰ĺ®‰ĺľ·ć–Ż
< 1273975642 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: i like u
< 1273975649 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: wat
< 1273975665 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just trying to get an excuse to be mock-raged at you :|
< 1273975765 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: how about this
< 1273975771 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like C as my primary dev lang
< 1273975792 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: please suck on multiple cacti
< 1273975801 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm not kidding
< 1273975806 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seriously is my lang pref
< 1273975834 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION likes Python
< 1273975844 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARGH, I hate this thing
< 1273975959 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: Still, at least you have one; I have no language preference, as I'm continually saddled with the troubling knowledge that all existing languages are inadequate, plus the desire to make new, better ones, which never works out quite as I plan. I have several language antipreferences, though.
< 1273975976 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Well they are all inadequate
< 1273975978 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One is definitely C. It can't even handle basic data structures without a page of memory handling and bookkeeping.
< 1273975985 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But at the time I need to hit the books, I use C
< 1273975988 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that's simply the antithesis of what I want.
< 1273976008 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by "hit the books" I mean "write something"
< 1273976045 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I gathered.
< 1273976065 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is Python inadequate? How is Haskell inadequate?
< 1273976114 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python is inadequate because it suffers from the endless tangle of impurity, and GvR does not truly understand languages: he believes, for instance, that iteration obsoletes general tail-call elimination. He is an imperative programmer out of his league, designing something he has no idea how to design.
< 1273976118 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell is probably the closest in common use to what alise would like. What with not sucking giant donkey balls and all.
< 1273976126 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The result is a mediocre mess with a glaze of cleanness.
< 1273976152 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell is inadequate because its type system cannot express many things it should be able to, because its syntax is lacking in some ways, and a general bag of odds-and-ends of flaws.
< 1273976156 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's good, but it doesn't sit right.
< 1273976229 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is PHP inadequate? *ducks*
< 1273976258 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I think you'll find that if you ended up designing a language and making something marketable, you'd have a hard time
< 1273976261 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PHP is wrong in most of the ways that can be managed.
< 1273976279 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is worse, PHP or Perl?
< 1273976290 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: Yes, but GvR is not so much detached from Rasmus, the creator of PHP, who hates languages and doesn't enjoy programming.
< 1273976295 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has an anti-Perl bias
< 1273976306 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really sure why
< 1273976307 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One level higher, certainly, but he certainly does not have the range of understanding of languages to make the right decisions.
< 1273976312 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I believe Python is simply not a good language.
< 1273976335 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could easily make a marketable language with all the API trimmings, I just don't want to. What's the point? It'd probably suck.
< 1273976337 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some reason it's #1 though
< 1273976342 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would someone who doesn't enjoy programming make a programming language?
< 1273976360 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To make things "easy" for non-programmers or something?
< 1273976366 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PHP is most definitely worse than Perl.
< 1273976407 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl suffers from having too much flexibility and a somewhat write-only syntax.
< 1273976430 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION finds that, at my level, Haskell is a bit read-only
< 1273976439 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PHP suffers from being "designed" by pretty much throwing shit together.
< 1273976469 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fortunately in PHP and Python, you can Get Things Done
< 1273976489 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not write some fancy "beautiful code" that is hard to use
< 1273976503 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: This is the only reason those languages have not been written off as complete and utter failures.
< 1273976519 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, are you saying that Python should be a failure???
< 1273976521 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, because they've done the opposite of fail for people
< 1273976551 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_2: I'm saying I liked it better when it was called Tcl.
< 1273976555 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1273976580 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Sgeo_2> Why would someone who doesn't enjoy programming make a programming language?
< 1273976582 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To get things done.
< 1273976635 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, "getting things done" is usually employed as a deus ex machina against good design; this crappy design works because people have used it for so long that they have figured out how to cobble together something that works; your superior design is more immature and so hasn't formed the framework it needs yet; therefore, the old way is better than the new way.
< 1273976653 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not everyone who wants change and dislikes the status quo is a hopeless ideologue.
< 1273976710 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My dad wants me to find a company that makes a universal laptop charger, something with Lithium-Ion or something. The company's name starts with Digi
< 1273976715 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Digitech or Digipower
< 1273976720 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He wants me to find the company
< 1273976734 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wishes he was more certain about the company's name
< 1273976744 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=VY8&rls=com.ubuntu%3Aen-GB%3Aunofficial&q=digi*+laptop+battery+charger+lithium+ion&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=
< 1273976746 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It may not exist.
< 1273976763 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know you could do * in Google searches!
< 1273976765 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tyvm
< 1273976803 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, I can't exclude digital for obvious reasons, but I don't want digi* to only match because of digitalk
< 1273976806 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*digital
< 1273976992 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION screams wildly at the slowness of his Internet connection
< 1273976992 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :40sec lag
< 1273977029 0 :Sgeo_2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273977132 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273977175 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are too many companies named Digitech!
< 1273977177 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273977353 0 :augur!~augur@c-68-54-80-152.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273977427 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides to just look for chargers for his laptop's model
< 1273977478 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, that's twice that I typed charter instead of charger
< 1273978091 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :F My Internet connection
< 1273978095 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Higher-order incantations.
< 1273978097 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going off of IRC to play more Gish
< 1273978164 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1273978199 0 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273978238 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gish > crappy Intetnet use
< 1273979036 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1273979060 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273979674 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273980169 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1273980364 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273980616 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: incidentally how easy is it to create a new "style" in LaTeX?
< 1273980653 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :logically, you should have to design everything from scratch rather than mangling an existing style; but on the other hand, that sounds like an incredibly laborious task
< 1273980840 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is laborious
< 1273980853 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still working on mine and I've been working at it for months
< 1273980896 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: And, presumably, I'd want to define one for the H2G2 books...
< 1273980905 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What have you gotten me into.
< 1273980926 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate packet-per-second Internet.
< 1273980975 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My printing of the books has some odd quirks; "CHAPTER N" is, if I recall correctly, set vertically to the left of the opening of the text.
< 1273981069 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I think you're going too far
< 1273981074 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note to self; remember not to do any typesetting.
< 1273981078 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: Ah, but going too far is wonderful!
< 1273981083 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just use the god damn Memoir class for H2G2
< 1273981101 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quad
< 1273981118 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can read all about the memoir class in the documentation, all the typographic theory
< 1273981120 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi lambent
< 1273981126 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: I wouldn't want to produce anything of anything less than significantly greater quality than I've seen.
< 1273981151 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That means I'm up against my hardback edition; that means I'm going to have to tweak /something/ along the line
< 1273981156 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /mode #esoteric -b lambent
< 1273981200 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Okay well start with memoir
< 1273981203 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get the book set
< 1273981204 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then do stuff
< 1273981222 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: I'll probably do that. But tweaking an existing style is error-prone, as you said.
< 1273981237 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes so do not tweak it
< 1273981240 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it's genius already
< 1273981242 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1273981242 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, I won't really feel pleased with the work unless I make it as good a I can, so I'll have to see...
< 1273981253 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: Do you want to live in a world where every book looks the same? :)
< 1273981256 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1273981262 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway just start with memoir
< 1273981270 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are actually a lot of modifiable parameters
< 1273981275 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will, probably.
< 1273981385 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: I don't remember the videos; have you put any inscriptions on the cloth of the hardbacks? I'm not sure what the correct term is.
< 1273981410 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I haven't. I don't have the right tools, so I leave the cloth blank
< 1273981419 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww.
< 1273981426 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can get a sharpie if you want
< 1273981429 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1273981437 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I vastly prefer them to dust jackets. I wonder how it's done
< 1273981449 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like maybe they embed little gnomes into the cloth...
< 1273981451 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are a few ways
< 1273981458 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of which are expensive as dick
< 1273981468 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How expensive, exactly, is penis
< 1273981474 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lto
< 1273981476 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ot
< 1273981503 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :order of magnitude?
< 1273981520 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 bln
< 1273981601 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I can't believe that.
< 1273981674 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: I'm imagining a shelf filled with hardback books with nothing written on the spine
< 1273981682 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IN A WORLD... WHERE BOOK-PRINTERS RUN OUT OF MONEY...
< 1273981705 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ill sell you my penis for $5
< 1273981778 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see i can afford $5.
< 1273982053 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :drop caps are weird
< 1273982211 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1273982464 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like seriously, I mean, what's the point.
< 1273983431 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: "Google Abandons Direct Sales of Nexus One"
< 1273983441 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lucky you.
< 1273983512 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How so? It's going to be available from retailers apparently
< 1273983575 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But locked to a carrier, I'll bet; and at a higher price.
< 1273983616 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I guess AT&T won't offer it
< 1273983668 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a good thing
< 1273983670 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although maybe I should have been patient and waited for the EVO
< 1273983708 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh.
< 1273983713 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's too big! And Sprint-only.
< 1273983714 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think.
< 1273983716 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah?
< 1273983785 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My dad said he'd be willing to switch to Sprint
< 1273983829 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then do so! Sprint are the best network around.
< 1273983848 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's my advice. The EVO will be nice, if you have hands big enough. Although apparently Sense isn't all that hot. Eh. You'll figure something out.
< 1273983850 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273983851 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going now.
< 1273983867 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose I'll probably dream of typography and H2G2 now. Should be interesting. Bye!
< 1273983869 0 :augur!~augur@c-68-54-80-152.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273983870 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1273984189 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1273984755 0 :Gregor-L!~Gregor@67-129-37-226.dia.static.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273985241 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273985244 0 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273985730 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273986236 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, pikhq and anybody else who might care: http://codu.org/music/op13/GRegor-op13-wipp1.ogg
< 1273986276 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, op13? What of op12?
< 1273986281 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Killed.
< 1273986285 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm scavenging the good parts.
< 1273986300 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Including the beginning, lest ye be confused :P
< 1273986303 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, op13 is your 12th opus.
< 1273986309 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1273986325 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some people like to skip the number 13, I'm skipping the number 12 instead.
< 1273986333 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesome.
< 1273986358 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways. Y'know what's totally awesome for learning a foreign language?
< 1273986361 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Watching shows in it.
< 1273986367 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A bit jarring a bit before 1:30
< 1273986392 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes, that is intentional :P
< 1273988206 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Gregor
< 1273988620 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1273989579 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273989598 0 :uorygl!~Warrigal@rrcs-70-63-156-144.midsouth.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273989603 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1273989898 0 :uorygl!~Warrigal@rrcs-70-63-156-144.midsouth.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273990476 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273990872 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273990881 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273991187 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1273992193 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1273992883 0 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273992985 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1273994506 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273996799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1273996800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1273997873 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Bye
< 1273999097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, hm *wgets*
< 1273999173 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, so far very nice...
< 1273999175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1273999343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, very nice :D
< 1273999770 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Who is german in here
< 1273999801 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, no idea
< 1273999804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not me at least
< 1274000906 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~chatzilla@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274001666 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274002985 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274003195 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274004345 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274004530 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1274004567 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zooming in on the Sierpinski Gasket is oddly difficult.
< 1274004604 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you keep hitting the empty spots? :)
< 1274004613 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1274004623 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Mandelbrot set is much nicer,
< 1274004635 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least it has nonempty spots.
< 1274004682 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's about dimension - i vaguely recall the mandelbrot border has hausdorff dimension 2, or something
< 1274004698 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(despite being a curve)
< 1274004701 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274004717 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while the sierpinski gasket has less
< 1274004730 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that might make the mandelbrot border easier to hit
< 1274004760 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's because the iterative process that makes the Sierpinski Gasket causes the filled-in areas to peter away to nothing.
< 1274004809 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you mean it's not drawing it perfectly?  or something else
< 1274004854 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's because when you cut out the middle triangles, the filled-in area is 3/4 of what it was before.
< 1274004859 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it shouldn't be two hard to zoom in perfectly - it looks locally everywhere like a sierpinski gasket, or two joined in a corner
< 1274004881 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So carrying on ad infinitum causes the filled-in bits to approach 0.
< 1274004883 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yes.  but that's precisely what makes it have dimension < 2
< 1274004897 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, OK.
< 1274004913 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also ties in to Pascal's Triangle, somewhere.
< 1274004923 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh?
< 1274004939 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess there's lot of combinatorics in it
< 1274004960 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The even and odd numbers in Pascal's Triangle are in a pattern similar to the Sierpinski Gasket.
< 1274005074 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1274005096 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i guess that makes sense, if odds are at corners
< 1274005105 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So logically, Pascal's Triangle contains infinitely more evens than odds.
< 1274005108 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something.
< 1274005139 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well to get an odd number in the pascal's triangle, one of the parents must be odd
< 1274005172 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the other even.
< 1274005196 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you have an all-even range, most of it is preserved on the next step
< 1274005200 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you would get large blocks of evens being encroached by odds as you move downwards.
< 1274005211 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while an all-odd range turns nearly all-even
< 1274005221 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1274005265 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC if you use a 1D automaton on a triangular grid where each cell is the XOR of the two above it, you get the gasket.
< 1274005282 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And adding even and odd is equivalent to XOR.
< 1274005304 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes.  come to think of it, i am sure i've tested that out some time.
< 1274005423 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for one thing, i once went through all 2-cell 2-value 1d automata (well there are just 16 and some are isomorphic) to see how easy the long term behavior was to predict
< 1274005429 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-(
< 1274005467 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and XOR and its equivalent dual (EQV ?) were the hardest since it needed summing binomials
< 1274005509 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(by predict, i mean calculating without simulating all intermediate steps)
< 1274005563 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*binomials mod 2
< 1274005615 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(isomorphic = equivalent, using mathspeak here)
< 1274005665 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can get Sierpinskiesque behaviour in Life, under certain circumstances.
< 1274005730 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Hausdorff dimension of the boundary of the Mandelbrot set equals 2 as determined by a result of Mitsuhiro Shishikura."
< 1274005801 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i recall some discussion previously on the channel that made a sierpinski gasket using a long line
< 1274005810 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :may have been in Life
< 1274005824 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, in Life superstrings (very long orthogonal lines of cells) create a messy gasket.
< 1274006174 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<uorygl> `translatefromto jp [...] <-- i think that's ja not jp?
< 1274006757 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Quadrescence> AnMaster: Who is german in here <-- jix is
< 1274006772 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or so i believe
< 1274006812 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not precisely active though
< 1274006941 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* [jix] idle 95:00:38, signon: Wed May 12 12:47:44 <-- nice idle time
< 1274007086 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Phantom_Hoover> So logically, Pascal's Triangle contains infinitely more evens than odds. <-- hm, but aren't there an infinite number of both?
< 1274007092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :different sizes of infinite?
< 1274007113 0 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@c-75-69-96-50.hsd1.nh.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274007132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so I would like to see a proof of that
< 1274007136 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, Phantom_Hoover ^
< 1274007142 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same cardinality
< 1274007160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, then there can't be infinitely more evens than odds can it?
< 1274007168 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is also density to consider
< 1274007176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm okay
< 1274007194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, but you can get a bijection of the even and the odds in Pascal's triangle, no?
< 1274007202 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although being similar to sierpinski's triangle, it probably fluctuates from 0 to 1 and back
< 1274007217 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well of course, they're both infinite and countable
< 1274007242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, can't you get a bijection between uncountable of same cardinality?
< 1274007254 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact it goes from all odd to all but 2 even in one step, perhaps 2^n-1 to 2^n rows?
< 1274007271 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course you can, that's the definition of same cardinality
< 1274007284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1274007289 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's only one countably infinite cardinality
< 1274007296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right
< 1274007466 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell let pt = [1]:[zipWith(+)(0:r)(r++[0])|r <- pt] in take 16 pt
< 1274007480 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[1],[1,1],[1,2,1],[1,3,3,1],[1,4,6,4,1],[1,5,10,10,5,1],[1,6,15,20,15,6,1],[1,7,21,35,35,21,7,1],[1,8,28,56,70,56,28,8,1],[1,9,36,84,126,126,84,36,9,1],[1,10,45,120,210,252,210,120,45,10,1],[1,11,55,165,330,462,462,330,165,55,11,1],[1,12,66,220,495,792,924,792,495,220,66,12,1],[1,13,78,286,715,1287,1716,1716,1287,715,286,78,13,1],[1,14,91,364,1001,2002,3003,3432,3003,2002,1001,364,91,14,1],[1,15,105,455,1365,3003,5005,6435,6435,5005,3003,1365,455,105,
< 1274007513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, eh?
< 1274007522 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WOW
< 1274007531 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DON'T PROGRAM IN PASCAL
< 1274007536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what?
< 1274007536 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha i just made a funny
< 1274007545 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1274007548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence, was that supposed to be a joke?
< 1274007552 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1274007558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :failed
< 1274007564 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it was pretty funny
< 1274007597 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: if you look at those rows, numbered from 0, then the 2^n-1 rows are all odd and the 2^n are all even except the 1's at the end
< 1274007610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hm
< 1274007619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, are there rows with mixed odd/evens in the middle?
< 1274007625 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: did you get my joke
< 1274007634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence, no
< 1274007641 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is pascal's triangle
< 1274007644 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um all the other rows have both even and odd i believe
< 1274007645 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he programmed to make it
< 1274007646 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes
< 1274007649 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so ,ololololol
< 1274007650 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funny
< 1274007653 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah
< 1274007653 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        \o_
< 1274007654 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :               |
< 1274007654 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :              /<
< 1274007657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too far fetched
< 1274007664 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        \o_     \o/      _o_
< 1274007664 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :               |       |        |
< 1274007664 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :              /<       >\       |\
< 1274007664 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and the p'th row for a prime p has all but the ends divisible by p, i recall
< 1274007716 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm it certainly _looks_ like row 9 has all divisible by 3, maybe it's a p^n thing
< 1274007747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, or maybe it is just coincidence?
< 1274007761 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's not coincidence for p^1 or 2^n
< 1274007768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay
< 1274007773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I mean for row 9 thing
< 1274007782 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well let's check a few more
< 1274007789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a proof ;P
< 1274007843 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell let pt = [1]:[zipWith(+)(0:r)(r++[0])|r <- pt] in take 100 $ map (foldl1' gcd) pt
< 1274007871 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell pt = [1]:[zipWith(+)(0:r)(r++[0])|r <- pt]; main = print . take 100 $ map (foldl1' gcd) pt
< 1274007895 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell pt = [1]:[zipWith(+)(0:r)(r++[0])|r <- pt]; main = print . take 100 $ map (foldl' gcd 0) pt
< 1274007904 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh
< 1274007910 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o
< 1274007918 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Data.List; pt = [1]:[zipWith(+)(0:r)(r++[0])|r <- pt]; main = print . take 100 $ map (foldl' gcd 0) pt
< 1274007921 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1]
< 1274007924 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops
< 1274007927 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait
< 1274007939 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Data.List; pt = [1]:[zipWith(+)(0:r)(r++[0])|r <- pt]; main = print . take 100 $ map (foldl' gcd 0) (init.tail$pt)
< 1274007942 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1]
< 1274007958 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think, oerjan, think
< 1274007961 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Data.List; pt = [1]:[zipWith(+)(0:r)(r++[0])|r <- pt]; main = print . take 100 $ map (foldl' lcm 0) (init.tail$pt)
< 1274007970 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0]
< 1274007974 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops
< 1274007982 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell main = print $ iterate (\row -> zipWith (+) ([0] ++ row) (row ++ [0])) [1]
< 1274007993 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell lcm 0 3
< 1274007996 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0
< 1274007996 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, am I doing it wrong?
< 1274008009 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why the _heck_ are they defining that as 0
< 1274008019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, defining what as 0?
< 1274008028 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's far more useful to have lcm 0 n as n
< 1274008030 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell iterate (\row -> zipWith (+) ([0] ++ row) (row ++ [0])) [1]
< 1274008037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, *shrug*
< 1274008047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, it is programming not math. Even if it is haskell...
< 1274008055 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: EgoBot does not handle infinite output well
< 1274008058 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1274008065 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Data.List; pt = [1]:[zipWith(+)(0:r)(r++[0])|r <- pt]; main = print . take 100 $ map (foldl1' lcm) (init.tail$pt)
< 1274008076 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell main = print . take 100 $ iterate (\row -> zipWith (+) ([0] ++ row) (row ++ [0])) [1]
< 1274008089 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shrugs
< 1274008090 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh shit
< 1274008098 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Data.List; pt = [1]:[zipWith(+)(0:r)(r++[0])|r <- pt]; main = print . take 100 $ map (foldl1' gcd) (init.tail$pt)
< 1274008098 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I think stderr goes to /dev/null for egobot
< 1274008100 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[1,2,3,12,10,60,105,280,252,2520,2310,27720,25740,24024,45045,720720,680680,12252240,11639628,11085360,10581480,232792560,223092870,1070845776,1029659400,2974571600,2868336900,80313433200,77636318760,2329089562800,4512611027925,4375865239200,4247163320400,4125815796960,4011209802600,144403552893600,140603459396400,136998242488800,133573286426580,5342931457063200,5215718803323600,219060189739591200,214081549063691400,209324181306720480,20477365562613960
< 1274008102 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1]
< 1274008105 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finally :D
< 1274008111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what was the second line?
< 1274008122 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin's
< 1274008126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay
< 1274008135 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not mine
< 1274008146 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Data.List; pt = [1]:[zipWith(+)(0:r)(r++[0])|r <- pt]; main = print . take 100 $ map (foldl1' gcd) (init.tail$pt)
< 1274008149 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1]
< 1274008152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, it was your line
< 1274008153 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine is Num a => [[a]] :P
< 1274008158 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Data.List; pt = [1]:[zipWith(+)(0:r)(r++[0])|r <- pt]; main = print . take 100 . zipWith [0..] $ map (foldl1' gcd) (init.tail$pt)
< 1274008165 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it was not
< 1274008172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, see I pasted your line above
< 1274008184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, don't claim that the 1,1,1,1... line arrived first at your end
< 1274008189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is not possible over irc
< 1274008191 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait it was
< 1274008213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, was it supposed to happen though?
< 1274008219 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: actually i was confused by the fact i _made_ the 1,1,1,1... line first and thought it had timed out
< 1274008235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh
< 1274008242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now you lost me XD
< 1274008252 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the question remains of who generated the 1,2,3,12 then
< 1274008255 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cause it wasn't my line either
< 1274008260 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Data.List; pt = [1]:[zipWith(+)(0:r)(r++[0])|r <- pt]; main = print . take 100 . zip [0..] $ map (foldl1' gcd) (init.tail$pt)
< 1274008264 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: that was mine
< 1274008264 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[(0,1),(1,1),(2,1),(3,1),(4,1),(5,1),(6,1),(7,1),(8,1),(9,1),(10,1),(11,1),(12,1),(13,1),(14,1),(15,1),(16,1),(17,1),(18,1),(19,1),(20,1),(21,1),(22,1),(23,1),(24,1),(25,1),(26,1),(27,1),(28,1),(29,1),(30,1),(31,1),(32,1),(33,1),(34,1),(35,1),(36,1),(37,1),(38,1),(39,1),(40,1),(41,1),(42,1),(43,1),(44,1),(45,1),(46,1),(47,1),(48,1),(49,1),(50,1),(51,1),(52,1),(53,1),(54,1),(55,1),(56,1),(57,1),(58,1),(59,1),(60,1),(61,1),(62,1),(63,1),(64,1),(65,1),(66
< 1274008271 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh!
< 1274008272 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok :) must've missed that one
< 1274008281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Data.List; pt = [1]:[zipWith(+)(0:r)(r++[0])|r <- pt]; main = print . take 100 $ map (foldl1' lcm) (init.tail$pt)
< 1274008285 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[1,2,3,12,10,60,105,280,252,2520,2310,27720,25740,24024,45045,720720,680680,12252240,11639628,11085360,10581480,232792560,223092870,1070845776,1029659400,2974571600,2868336900,80313433200,77636318760,2329089562800,4512611027925,4375865239200,4247163320400,4125815796960,4011209802600,144403552893600,140603459396400,136998242488800,133573286426580,5342931457063200,5215718803323600,219060189739591200,214081549063691400,209324181306720480,20477365562613960
< 1274008288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep it was
< 1274008304 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok something is wrong
< 1274008309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, so did you find out the 9th row thing yet?
< 1274008314 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm _trying_
< 1274008326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, couldn't you just check 3 or 4 cases by hand?
< 1274008332 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldr lcm 1 [1..10]
< 1274008338 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoops :)
< 1274008344 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the next case that's at all interesting is 25
< 1274008348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin, wrong prefix
< 1274008350 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no, i wouldn't like that
< 1274008354 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I realized that
< 1274008361 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but was too lazy to fix it, it's past 6am :)
< 1274008364 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it wasn't very useful anyway
< 1274008371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin, yes it is. It is 12:12
< 1274008373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(here)
< 1274008376 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1274008388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin, heck it is past it a lot of times this year alone
< 1274008392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style
< 1274008393 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft* nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube
< 1274008394 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1274008398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, hi there
< 1274008399 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: recent british literature, besides including the three or four greatest fantaisistes of the present is that it's too damned stupid to question the people around the station; but his attitude toward the matter was by this time have found the other neighboring gate to the abyss, and these dark ruins were in truth primordial sarkomand.
< 1274008412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, oh?
< 1274008413 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: as we proceeded. out the window i had left seemed involved in a passage from any given dimensional plane to the next opening in the roof glittered the pale pole star, fluttering as if alive in the stone staircase had been encountered, and the
< 1274008445 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm copumpkin are you (relatively) new here or?
< 1274008457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :idler? nick changer?
< 1274008459 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, sorry if I jumped in
< 1274008464 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :newcomer
< 1274008465 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Data.List; pt = [1]:[zipWith(+)(0:r)(r++[0])|r <- pt]; main = print . take 10 . zip [0..] $ pt
< 1274008468 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[(0,[1]),(1,[1,1]),(2,[1,2,1]),(3,[1,3,3,1]),(4,[1,4,6,4,1]),(5,[1,5,10,10,5,1]),(6,[1,6,15,20,15,6,1]),(7,[1,7,21,35,35,21,7,1]),(8,[1,8,28,56,70,56,28,8,1]),(9,[1,9,36,84,126,126,84,36,9,1])]
< 1274008477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin, nah no issue, just wasn't able to find your nick in my mental lookup table
< 1274008478 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Data.List; pt = [1]:[zipWith(+)(0:r)(r++[0])|r <- pt]; main = print . take 10 . zip [0..] $ (init.tail$pt)
< 1274008479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P
< 1274008481 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[(0,[1,1]),(1,[1,2,1]),(2,[1,3,3,1]),(3,[1,4,6,4,1]),(4,[1,5,10,10,5,1]),(5,[1,6,15,20,15,6,1]),(6,[1,7,21,35,35,21,7,1]),(7,[1,8,28,56,70,56,28,8,1]),(8,[1,9,36,84,126,126,84,36,9,1]),(9,[1,10,45,120,210,252,210,120,45,10,1])]
< 1274008483 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1274008491 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...f...
< 1274008501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ?
< 1274008516 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Data.List; pt = [1]:[zipWith(+)(0:r)(r++[0])|r <- pt]; main = print . take 100 . zip [0..] $ map (foldl1' gcd . init . tail) pt
< 1274008522 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[(0,input.26654.hs: Prelude.init: empty list
< 1274008532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay that looked strange
< 1274008538 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there usually this much haskell in here?
< 1274008539 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Data.List; pt = [1]:[zipWith(+)(0:r)(r++[0])|r <- pt]; main = print . drop . take 100 . zip [0..] $ map (foldl1' gcd . init . tail) pt
< 1274008556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin, varies widely. But usually oerjan can figure out a working command faster than that
< 1274008567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin, btw fungot is written in befunge98 in case you didn't know
< 1274008568 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: " then you're not sure. you saw the fnord ancient and fnord rock strata fully verified all of lakes bulletins, and proved that these pinnacles had been towering up in exactly the same, that door's coming open," i answered, " i can't tell you yet which it was called. the being is spoken of as holding all knowledge, and its
< 1274008569 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^source
< 1274008569 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98
< 1274008571 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why can't he use GHCi?
< 1274008577 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: hah, that's great
< 1274008611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I don't know
< 1274008623 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :querying lambdabot is great too
< 1274008624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin, oh and oerjan is our resident mathematician
< 1274008627 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha
< 1274008641 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What type?
< 1274008653 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I come from #haskell, so I'm used to being surrounded by them
< 1274008657 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i'm trying to demonstrate something, just messing up the code
< 1274008677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, of mathematician? Ask him, I don't remember... I saw some paper he had written once iirc. Didn't understand one sentence of it :P
< 1274008689 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Data.List; pt = [1]:[zipWith(+)(0:r)(r++[0])|r <- pt]; main = print . drop . drop . take 100 . zip [0..] $ map (foldl1' gcd . init . tail) pt
< 1274008692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(gave up after the abstract)
< 1274008704 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why the _heck_ is that a type error
< 1274008716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, is it? where does egobot say so?
< 1274008725 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in DCC
< 1274008774 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: drop takes arguement
< 1274008774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1274008788 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d'oh
< 1274008801 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Data.List; pt = [1]:[zipWith(+)(0:r)(r++[0])|r <- pt]; main = print . drop 2 . take 100 . zip [0..] $ map (foldl1' gcd . init . tail) pt
< 1274008805 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[(2,2),(3,3),(4,2),(5,5),(6,1),(7,7),(8,2),(9,3),(10,1),(11,11),(12,1),(13,13),(14,1),(15,1),(16,2),(17,17),(18,1),(19,19),(20,1),(21,1),(22,1),(23,23),(24,1),(25,5),(26,1),(27,3),(28,1),(29,29),(30,1),(31,31),(32,2),(33,1),(34,1),(35,1),(36,1),(37,37),(38,1),(39,1),(40,1),(41,41),(42,1),(43,43),(44,1),(45,1),(46,1),(47,47),(48,1),(49,7),(50,1),(51,1),(52,1),(53,53),(54,1),(55,1),(56,1),(57,1),(58,1),(59,59),(60,1),(61,61),(62,1),(63,1),(64,2),(65,1),(
< 1274008827 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok it's true for 25 and 49
< 1274008835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, but not for most other ones?
< 1274008856 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are the only untested squares of primes in that list
< 1274008862 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are you trying?
< 1274008871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, why not just take the first 100 relevant numbers or such?
< 1274008913 0 :tombom_!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274008921 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and 27 too!
< 1274008922 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notices that most c/4 diagonal Life spaceships seem to be glider tagalongs
< 1274008944 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because i'm having trouble enough making a list of all the gcd's
< 1274008968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hm?
< 1274008978 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you trying to compute? I think I missed the beginning of this
< 1274008986 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i'm testing the theory that all elements of the p^n'th row of pascal's triangle other than the 1's are divisible by p for a prime p
< 1274009003 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1274009012 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1274009018 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i don't know how to filter on prime powers easily
< 1274009020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, so not just squares but ^3 and ^4 and so on too?
< 1274009027 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep i would thin
< 1274009029 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k
< 1274009036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, check if each number is a power of a prime?
< 1274009040 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it's just for primes, 36 breaks as you can see
< 1274009042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might not be a one-liner any more...
< 1274009049 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's horrible to do, i think
< 1274009053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, why?
< 1274009059 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a really short way to get primes :P
< 1274009069 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prime powers in order probably requires more work though
< 1274009072 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it requires factorization?
< 1274009094 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be easier to generate all than test for them directly
< 1274009097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, well sure it isn't fast, but for numbers of reasonable size it can't be too hard
< 1274009112 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's not a one-liner
< 1274009154 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, after all something like the command line tool factor is fast for (random example) 347772662826551
< 1274009160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a 2 GHz Sempron
< 1274009172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :347772662826551 is a prime apparently
< 1274009210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :987326589764578281478231293 is fast but 9873265897645782814782312932 takes several seconds
< 1274009213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is strange
< 1274009233 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i'm trying to demonstrate, not check for myself.  also a factor program would obviously use advanced algorithms
< 1274009249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe because it has two large prime factors instead of one much larger and many small?
< 1274009260 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :naturally
< 1274009261 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ factor 987326589764578281478231293
< 1274009261 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :987326589764578281478231293: 3 3 7 47 32265841 10334261253277693
< 1274009262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ factor 9873265897645782814782312932
< 1274009262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9873265897645782814782312932: 2 2 8005230950461 308337946735853
< 1274009279 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :testing small divisors is much easier
< 1274009281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, it is still impressive that this just takes a few seconds on an old Sempron...
< 1274009317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yet finding out that 10334261253277693 is prime didn't take a lot of time
< 1274009326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, doesn't haskell have some built in factoring thingy?
< 1274009339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mathematicians made it after all...
< 1274009340 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no prime testing has easy algorithms
< 1274009344 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope
< 1274009358 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_good_ factoring is _hard_
< 1274009360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, but surely there is import Something.Prime?
< 1274009363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever
< 1274009373 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh something on hackage, probably
< 1274009379 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a _core_ feature
< 1274009385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ah not part of the haskell platform?
< 1274009404 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that i know of
< 1274009426 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1274009433 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time to google or wikipedia, i think
< 1274009498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, anyway the "semi-naive" way of doing this would be generating all primes up to, say, 500 using sieve of E., then trying a number of powers for them, say 2..20
< 1274009507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, this shouldn't be too bad complexity
< 1274009514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even coding
< 1274009521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, no?
< 1274009574 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i'm passing on to checking references at this point
< 1274009580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1274009657 0 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-24-19-39-178.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274009684 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274009709 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/
< 1274009709 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        |
< 1274009709 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :       /<
< 1274009742 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It can be deduced from this that (n; k) is divisible by n/gcd(n,k)
< 1274009752 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"
< 1274009793 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok if n is a prime power then gcd(n,k) is less when k is not 0 or n
< 1274009815 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so n/gcd(n,k) must contain at least one factor of the prime
< 1274009843 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1274009856 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(n; k) is the binominal?
< 1274009864 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1274009881 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i couldn't paste the wp gif...)
< 1274009893 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, png probably
< 1274009927 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A somewhat surprising result by David Singmaster (1974) is that any integer divides almost all binomial coefficients."
< 1274009939 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(n; k) = n!/(k!*(n-k)!). n! | n, and k! | gcd(n,k), so (n; k) | n/gcd(n,k)
< 1274009940 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's relevant to the odd/even case too
< 1274009998 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MizardX: are you writing those | backwards?
< 1274010015 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well the first one at least)
< 1274010030 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the last one
< 1274010053 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a | b = a is dividable by b ... dunno if that is the normal order
< 1274010063 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no that's the opposite
< 1274010121 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you still have the middle one reversed from the rest
< 1274010136 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(n; k) = n!/(k!*(n-k)!). n | n!, and gcd(n,k) | k, so n/gcd(n,k) | (n; k)
< 1274010166 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think that's a correct proof fwiw
< 1274010206 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, "almost all"?
< 1274010271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(wrt: <oerjan> "A somewhat surprising result by David Singmaster (1974) is that any integer divides almost all binomial coefficients.")
< 1274010308 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binomial_coefficient#Divisibility_properties
< 1274010416 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MizardX: you have a | b and c | d => ac | bd but what you're doing doesn't fit into that
< 1274010444 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, a/d | b/c
< 1274010630 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and anyway there's no way you can get this while ignoring the (n-k)! part)
< 1274010737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hm
< 1274010744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :over my head that link
< 1274010800 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ok, basically you take the first n rows, and count the fraction of that part of the triangle that is divisible by d.  as n -> infinity, that fraction goes to 1.
< 1274010873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, and d is selected to be?
< 1274010884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I mean if d > n then the fraction will be 0
< 1274010886 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any integer
< 1274010889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1274010894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not d > n
< 1274010898 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d >> n probably
< 1274010899 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you take the limit of n while keeping d fixed
< 1274010904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(where >> = much larger)
< 1274010909 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so d << n most certainly in the limit
< 1274010930 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well any nonzero integer)
< 1274010935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, right, if d = 1 then the fraction is 1
< 1274010937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P
< 1274010947 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats AnMaster -----###
< 1274010960 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's true for _all_ nonzero d.
< 1274010962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hey, degenerate cases are fun
< 1274010980 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well true.  sometimes.
< 1274011080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, also I love how a circle is defined in terms of a cone and a cone is defined in terms of a circle
< 1274011138 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will have none of your circular definitions!
< 1274011149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, conical sectional*
< 1274011265 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hm wikipedia says "An integer n â‰Ą 2 is prime if and only if all the intermediate binomial coefficients $\binom n 1, \binom n 2, \ldots, \binom n{n-1}$ are divisible by n."
< 1274011268 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is interesting
< 1274011276 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1274011279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(nice that the tex copies from the image
< 1274011280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :)
< 1274011291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(even though I had to replace two newlines with a $ on either side)
< 1274011441 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anti-proof: 2/1 !| 2/(1*2)
< 1274011541 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what
< 1274011586 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... of my claim of a proof
< 1274011617 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone else remember alise's idea of Life physics?
< 1274011731 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MizardX: oh i thought you had found a counterexample
< 1274011748 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but (2;1) = 2 so that's fine
< 1274011753 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1274011778 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With Life, it'd really have to be anti-physics, though.
< 1274011794 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because you're building up, not breaking down.
< 1274011915 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :life breaks down quite frequently
< 1274011957 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Far too many puns can be made here.
< 1274011998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1274012023 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there are some things which should be consolidated into an abstract theory.
< 1274012041 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like the various speeds of spaceships.
< 1274012091 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Later
< 1274012272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, btw I saw yesterday something mentioned about a wireworld variant that could "grow" new wires
< 1274012283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc self replication was possible
< 1274012352 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How did it work?
< 1274012364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, didn't check the details
< 1274012377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was somewhere on googlecode, some golly-rule-repo thingy
< 1274012395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://code.google.com/p/ruletablerepository/ from browser history
< 1274012411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://code.google.com/p/ruletablerepository/wiki/TheRules#WireWorld_and_derivatives
< 1274012470 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION loads Golly
< 1274012489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if it is included by default
< 1274012493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't think so
< 1274012530 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274012624 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Golly 2.1 gives access to online repositoried.
< 1274012629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1274012636 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/repositoried/repositories/
< 1274012644 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Including the rule table one.
< 1274012737 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, quadratic growth.
< 1274012810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hm?
< 1274012849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, where?
< 1274013216 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of the example patterns
< 1274013313 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the WireWorld extension.
< 1274013336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1274013414 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, these are cool.
< 1274013424 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a Minsky Machine implementation, too.
< 1274013477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1274013510 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The coolness continues to grow.
< 1274013548 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gas simulations and such.
< 1274015858 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100423140709]
< 1274016216 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274016501 0 :alise!~alise@91.104.226.164 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274017725 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~chatzilla@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274018353 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does nobody print 1 as the I-type symbol any more?
< 1274018358 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see it universally in old mathematical texts.
< 1274018378 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean 1 as a straight, vertical line?
< 1274018388 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To differentiate, of course.
< 1274018407 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I and l are already confusing, not to mention |
< 1274018419 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another vertical line is overkill.
< 1274018754 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, no, they're printed like Is.
< 1274018762 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Serifed Is.
< 1274018764 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/25/Quadrature_of_Circle_Cajori_1919.png
< 1274018764 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Confusing!
< 1274018766 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look at the 1s here.
< 1274018771 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't confusing!
< 1274018772 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1274018796 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's how they're printed, AFAIK.
< 1274018908 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Computer Modern certainly doesn't have that 1.
< 1274018914 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor does AMS Euler or any of the common mathematical fonts.
< 1274018928 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or indeed any text fonts I know.
< 1274018951 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do they print it?
< 1274019184 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like the regular 1 you see all the time.
< 1274019198 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slanty top bit, serifed bottom bit.
< 1274019201 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of serifed top and bottom bit.
< 1274019217 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274019302 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ab/Pm1234_Euler1755_I-V.png
< 1274019314 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here is some text which shows it better; older, too; vintage 1755 Euler.
< 1274019334 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~chatzilla@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274019381 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notices that Golly has a script that supports 3D Life.
< 1274019777 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ab/Pm1234_Euler1755_I-V.png
< 1274019777 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> Here is some text which shows it better; older, too; vintage 1755 Euler.
< 1274019779 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You missed ^
< 1274019781 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, hot.
< 1274019794 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it scale up the neighbour stuff based on the dimensions or just keep it the same (which would be silly)?
< 1274019810 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a pretty ugly kludge.
< 1274019829 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The script does the calculations, then draws the universe on a 2D CA>
< 1274019849 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also fantastically slow, and they keys are unintuitive.
< 1274020291 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I assume that the display is not very easy to see.
< 1274020351 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there was an easy 3D library I'd make a proper 3D Life.
< 1274020357 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, there is not.
< 1274020361 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least, not that I know of.
< 1274020389 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: hey do you know of any like big huge collections of interesting life patterns i could dump in a folder and have golly recognise?
< 1274020393 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :downloading separate .rle files is so meh
< 1274020541 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jslife is pretty fun.
< 1274020562 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh. Not fast enough.
< 1274020563 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And JS is laggy.
< 1274020566 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For a given value of "fun".
< 1274020574 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :js = Jason Summers.
< 1274020588 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah.
< 1274020604 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it organised?
< 1274020608 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1274020611 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Golly understand the organisation?
< 1274020654 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC you can just dump the decompressed directory into the Patterns directory and Golly can read it.
< 1274020666 0 :maedhros777!~michael@c-76-118-245-128.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274020678 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone here know how to output a number in Brainfuck?
< 1274020687 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With either 1 or 2 digits
< 1274020720 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there's something on the Brainfuck algorithms page on the wiki for that.
< 1274020725 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where?
< 1274020740 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see it
< 1274020748 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, this is divmod: http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Brainfuck_algorithms#Divmod_algorithm
< 1274020762 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a one or two digit number in decimal is just two divmods.
< 1274020772 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok
< 1274020779 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly you will need a lookup table.
< 1274020795 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a long algorithm, though -- this is for a golf problem
< 1274020839 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually...i could do it by checking if a cell is equal to 9, then put it in the next cell if it is
< 1274020847 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since i'm counting something
< 1274020863 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep.
< 1274020887 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Hey, do you know what's the longest period oscillator? I know there's >200 but it has no page on LifeWiki.
< 1274020898 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also wonder what the slowest spaceship is. Probably that replicator + a deletion machine, but that's chaeting :-)
< 1274020900 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*cheating
< 1274020992 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :p103079214841
< 1274020999 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's in the Oscillators file
< 1274021031 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any "pulsating" spaceship? I mean something that moves like a slug; it contracts, then expands out again, slightly further forward.
< 1274021038 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1274021054 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though it tends to be on the order of one or two cells.
< 1274021085 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww.
< 1274021091 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was imagining this big slug getting all tiny.
< 1274021102 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I thought you meant a one-to-two cell spaceship for a second there, and got really confused.)
< 1274021225 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Caterpillar is pretty interesting.
< 1274021234 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It lays down a track, along which it moves.
< 1274021250 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Golly's default collection is so tiny, urgh
< 1274021264 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: So has anyone emulated a non-Lifelike CA in Life?
< 1274021265 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say, rule 110?
< 1274021283 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, there's a Rule 110 emulator somewhere.
< 1274021287 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm imagining one of those dot-matrix-printer type dealies printing each line of CA as it goes, then somehow "scanning" the printed output to do the next generation.
< 1274021302 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also the metacell, which supports all B/
< 1274021308 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :S rules.
< 1274021310 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*metapixel
< 1274021315 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :B/S rules.
< 1274021325 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bullshit rules.
< 1274021328 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's 2D, anyway.
< 1274021374 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOL is so rich, I'd like to life in a life simulation
< 1274021405 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, there are three of them included in Golly.
< 1274021430 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A vanilla cell, the metapixels and the Deep Cell, which simulates two universes at once.
< 1274021448 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why simulate two at once? I'm curious.
< 1274021449 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait.
< 1274021462 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, because it allow unlimited universes.
< 1274021472 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh?
< 1274021487 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I don't have the metapixel in my golly version :( just a 512x512 one and the deep ceel
< 1274021488 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*cell
< 1274021497 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.4 from 2008
< 1274021523 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Memory storage still sucks in Life, yeah?
< 1274021541 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Spartan UCC has unlimited-size registers, I think.
< 1274021583 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a script in Python that converts normal Life patterns into metapixels.
< 1274021596 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works on other CAs, too.
< 1274021622 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I meant as far as speed and stuff goes.
< 1274021633 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, don't know.
< 1274021645 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be nice to have a Turing-machine style tape where the head can move at lightspeed.
< 1274021661 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAIK nearly all processing is done at glider speed.
< 1274021666 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And thus retrieve things from memory and give them back to the main computer at lightspeed.)
< 1274021669 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yeah, IMO that sucks :P
< 1274021672 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lightspeed is awesome
< 1274021684 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is, but it's also very difficult to control.
< 1274021704 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We must harness the powah!
< 1274021710 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There isn't even a way to turn a practical lightspeed signal around a corner, yet.
< 1274021761 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can have a lightspeed tunnel that emits and takes sub-lightspeed gliders, yeah?
< 1274021784 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The jslife one?
< 1274021791 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know; I'm just asking.
< 1274021798 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume it's possible. Otherwise it isn't really communication.
< 1274021813 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So have stretches of LHC^Wlightspeed tunnel for as long as you can make them, then into a sub-light-speed cornering device, which then feeds the gliders into another straight lightspeed tunnel.
< 1274021814 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As I said yesterday, no-one has come up with a usable diagonal lightspeed wire.
< 1274021819 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So?
< 1274021822 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay then.
< 1274021824 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Listen.
< 1274021825 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean:
< 1274021827 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A lightspeed tunnel
< 1274021831 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you feed in spaceships
< 1274021837 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bits are transmitted at lightspeed
< 1274021842 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then come out the other end as spaceships
< 1274021856 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All you need is a horizontal and vertical one of these, plus a very simple take-in-spaceship-and-emit-a-new-one-diagonally piece
< 1274021861 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, you can take the signal out of lightspeed to turn a corner, but the signal circuitry required would be huge, complex and slow.
< 1274021863 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then just plug them together; voila, turner-corning.
< 1274021873 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: So exiting lightspeed is difficult?
< 1274021881 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1274021883 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is it really communication then, if everything has to go at light speed?
< 1274021892 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Circuitry can't always operate that quickly.
< 1274021900 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess this is why lightspeed is chaotic.
< 1274021918 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you looked at the lightspeed telegraph yet?
< 1274021933 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Here is a sample Herschel-based oscillator with a 12-digit-prime period" ;; whoa
< 1274021939 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I saw it but did not understand it or run it.
< 1274021941 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a pretty good demonstration of the technilogies.
< 1274021984 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it in jslife?
< 1274022000 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's included in the Signal-Circuitry folder.
< 1274022020 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, so it is.
< 1274022023 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the latest Golly?
< 1274022027 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.1
< 1274022043 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The version in the Ubuntu repositories is ancient, BtW.
< 1274022045 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, I'm on 1.4.
< 1274022052 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so I can see the lightspeed telegraph and it looks like the LHC.
< 1274022056 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand it though.
< 1274022158 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Should I upgrade?
< 1274022169 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, the telegraph appears to have some sort of latency; after sending one blip of information, you must wait until it repairs itself to send another.
< 1274022172 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's not really lightspeed, is it?
< 1274022178 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For one bit, sure, but not sustained.
< 1274022304 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, the machinery looks beautiful on hyperspeed.
< 1274022340 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you zoom in you can see the cable jittering.
< 1274022348 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: so I should upgrade Golly yeah?
< 1274022792 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ ]	golly_2.1-1.diff.gz	09-May-2010 16:06 	 11K	
< 1274022793 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ ]	golly_2.1-1.dsc	09-May-2010 16:06 	1.1K	
< 1274022793 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ ]	golly_2.1-1_amd64.deb	12-May-2010 13:05 	2.0M	
< 1274022793 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ ]	golly_2.1-1_i386.deb	10-May-2010 12:05 	1.9M	
< 1274022793 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ ]	golly_2.1.orig.tar.gz	09-May-2010 16:06 	2.3M	
< 1274022794 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll use this.
< 1274022894 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jane@jane-desktop:~$ sudo dpkg -i --force-depends-version golly_2.1-1_amd64.deb
< 1274022895 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Reading database ... 331562 files and directories currently installed.)
< 1274022895 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Preparing to replace golly 2.1-1 (using golly_2.1-1_amd64.deb) ...
< 1274022895 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unpacking replacement golly ...
< 1274022895 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dpkg: golly: dependency problems, but configuring anyway as you request:
< 1274022895 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : golly depends on libperl5.10 (>= 5.10.1); however:
< 1274022899 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Version of libperl5.10 on system is 5.10.0-19ubuntu1.1.
< 1274022901 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : golly depends on libwxbase2.8-0 (>= 2.8.10.1); however:
< 1274022903 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Version of libwxbase2.8-0 on system is 2.8.9.1-0ubuntu6.
< 1274022905 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : golly depends on libwxgtk2.8-0 (>= 2.8.10.1); however:
< 1274022907 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Version of libwxgtk2.8-0 on system is 2.8.9.1-0ubuntu6.
< 1274022909 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION winces :)
< 1274022911 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works, anyway.
< 1274023167 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just compiles golly herself
< 1274023189 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: so a 3D life would use voxels, right?
< 1274023292 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.ibiblio.org/e-notes/Life/Gliders.htm Gliders in 3D Life
< 1274023372 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3D Life seems quite chaotic on random patterns.
< 1274023376 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A universe of insanity.
< 1274023394 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely there are multiple ways to 3Dify Life.
< 1274023401 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://fbim.fh-regensburg.de/~saj39122/doefe/ another 3D Life
< 1274023436 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: only one obvious way; instead of (x,y) have (x,y,z); use 3D instead of 2D neighbours; and scale up the birth/death numbers accordingly
< 1274023459 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes, but there are multiple ways to choose those numbers.
< 1274023544 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Divide by 8, multiply by 26. Perhaps that's naive.
< 1274023558 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is naive, but it may work.  :P
< 1274023576 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders spelling that naĂŻve simply because he can.
< 1274023589 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The main issue is nice visualisation and editing.
< 1274023595 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Naďve is a nice spelling.
< 1274023686 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is crĂ¨me brĂ»lĂ©e a nice spelling?
< 1274023715 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; as is rôle.
< 1274023739 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that just a different spelling of the English word 'role', as in "What is his role in this ordeal?"?
< 1274023752 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :His rôle in the proceedings was primarily to mess everything up; he was too naďve to handle his responsibility.
< 1274023754 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Yes.
< 1274023802 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Python doesn't work with Golly on 64-bit machines. Will this be a problem?
< 1274023829 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"-O5" --golly
< 1274023849 0 :Warrior`!~warrior@117.201.48.116 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274023866 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh noes a Warrior`
< 1274023873 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who is pronounced only slightly differently to wareya
< 1274023882 0 :Warrior`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and who is that
< 1274023890 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another person in here; more to the point, who are you?
< 1274023893 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And significantly differently from Warrigal.
< 1274023901 0 :Warrior`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err....
< 1274023910 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, I was away.
< 1274023917 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a relatively simple question; what brings you here?
< 1274023924 0 :Warrior`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#brainfuck
< 1274023928 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's reasonable.
< 1274023943 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: IIRC, you need to change the location of the Python .so files sometimes.
< 1274023949 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was about to fire off the procedural "we're not about magick or any other kind of esoterica" but I don't suppose anyone in #brainfuck would be looking for that.
< 1274023954 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless they took the channel name a bit too literally.
< 1274023961 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: one of the symbols is named diferently in the 64-bit one
< 1274023965 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I googleified it
< 1274023967 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*differently
< 1274023973 0 :Warrior`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#brainfuck theres a refrence about #esoteric
< 1274024005 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would fit, given that we are ostensibly the umbrella channel for all esoteric languages.
< 1274024033 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But only ostensibly, mind.
< 1274024043 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I guess our current topic, the Game of Life, basically counts as an esolang.
< 1274024050 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More like an esouniverse, but there you go.
< 1274024069 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you looked at the lgithspeed telegraph
< 1274024071 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1274024111 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have. As I said, I saw it, and it looked like the LHC; but I didn't understand it.
< 1274024117 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It certainly didn't seem to do anything with the information being transmitted.
< 1274024143 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does transmit a LWSS, but it's extremely inefficient.
< 1274024159 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's only practical over very long distances.
< 1274024283 0 :maedhros777!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274024308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, there?
< 1274024346 0 :Warrior`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1274024374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I found something wonderful wrt. panoramic photos. A (possibly) cheap way to do panoramic head. It depends on if you have the needed stuff already, I happen to have that. Lots of it in fact. Will tell you more when you respond :P
< 1274024471 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274024709 0 :alise!~alise@91.104.226.164 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274024993 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Life is awesome.
< 1274024998 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not life, Life :P
< 1274025021 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: so efficient lightspeed transmission is an open problem.
< 1274025036 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so.
< 1274025053 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well well well...
< 1274025055 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How hard can it be?
< 1274025064 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Extremely, I think.
< 1274025094 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not finding stable signals that's the problem, it's getting them into a manipulable form.
< 1274025144 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, basically, the problem is that the way the signals are transmitted is chaotic
< 1274025147 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/./
< 1274025172 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That their endpoints are chaotic, yes,
< 1274025214 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gawps at metapixel-p216-gun
< 1274025215 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of the LST's overhead comes from the fact that 10 signals are necessary per bit, and the tape needs to be repaired afterwards
< 1274025216 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's... so huge...
< 1274025236 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes; I bet real lightspeed communication is impossible.
< 1274025240 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because of the latency, the lag between signals.
< 1274025244 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can send one bit at lightspeed, sure.
< 1274025250 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But sustained communication won't be at lightspeed.
< 1274025299 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has anyone used a metapixel to run a metapixel?
< 1274025308 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure someone has.
< 1274025316 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried, once.
< 1274025343 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was going to take forever, so I stopped.
< 1274025425 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: What do you think about my conjecture that true sustained lightspeed communication is impossible?
< 1274025435 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe we could do something like quantum entanglement with a very long wire.
< 1274025459 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly, lightspeed != instant, but if we can recognise a very small group of cells and keep the "connector" which switches them far enough away not to interfere...
< 1274025469 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no quantum entanglement...
< 1274025536 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course not.
< 1274025537 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By true sustained lightspeed communication do you mean sending data or processing?
< 1274025553 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant sending; there's lag between sending lightspeed communications due to repair.
< 1274025561 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I bet that the maximum /sustained/ speed is far less than c, because of the lag.
< 1274025572 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sustained?
< 1274025605 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The LST can send repeatedly along the same wire; it only needs to repair a fixed length.
< 1274025647 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but if you monitor the right end: a blip gets fired, the wire is fucked up for a few generations, then it reforms, /then/ the next blip hits it.
< 1274025652 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's that lag between sending two blips.
< 1274025656 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That lag is significantly slower than c.
< 1274025665 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So /sustained/ communication - non-stop, constant communication - cannot happen at c.
< 1274025742 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, what's non-stop, constant communication?
< 1274025755 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At best, you can transmit information only once per generation.
< 1274025845 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it doesn't make any sense to say "that lag is significantly slower than c".  That lag is measured in time per information sent, not time per distance.
< 1274025859 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider that we have a certain machine that, with the appropriate communication mechanism, wants to set one blip per generation going off.
< 1274025875 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't do this, since after setting one blip off, it takes several generations for the wire to repair itself sufficiently to accept another blip.
< 1274025877 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it can just use a bunch of these lightspeed telegraphs.
< 1274025892 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No new technology is required.
< 1274025896 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm.
< 1274025905 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to think of an occasion where it would need an infinite amount of them but I can't. Fair enough.
< 1274025917 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION causes an accident in the LHC
< 1274025924 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Black holes are sucking up all the gliders!!!
< 1274025937 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're spreading and demolishing the wire at both ends!!
< 1274025938 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh the pain!!
< 1274025977 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that was always my favourite to destroy.
< 1274025987 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoa, I think this thing is actually eating the tape away at lightspeed
< 1274025995 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is.
< 1274025998 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1274026001 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Truly a black hole.
< 1274026009 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most dense fuses burn at lightspeed.
< 1274026021 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, it's just an information packet going backwards
< 1274026023 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Extraordinary
< 1274026025 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most dense objects, come to think of it.
< 1274026046 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how it's turning the tape into nice little evenly-spaced oscillators.
< 1274026057 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not an information packet, it just looks like it.
< 1274026060 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With gigantic gobs of dark matter every so often.
< 1274026063 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: okay
< 1274026086 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The dark matter appears to be when the destroyer collides with an information packet.
< 1274026098 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Pretty impressive that it survives the collision, or rather gets rebuilt just after it
< 1274026111 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The destroyer?
< 1274026129 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's the natural way for a stretched line of beehives to burn.
< 1274026132 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274026139 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing eating the wire away at lightspeed that looks exactly like a mirrored packet
< 1274026170 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Extraordinarily, the left piece of machinery is still trying to shoot out gliders
< 1274026191 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're just being obliterated though.
< 1274026208 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, this thing is eating the wire then pooping out oscillators.
< 1274026209 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gross.
< 1274026256 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interestingly, the ash of oscillators and still-lifes that is left behind when a pattern burns is very resilient.
< 1274026279 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that is logic WHAT why did one of the oscillators appear one cell above the others
< 1274026280 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::|#
< 1274026281 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*:|
< 1274026283 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've tested it as a shielding material, and it can withstand a glider gun pointed at it.
< 1274026288 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Heh
< 1274026292 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I guess it makes sense
< 1274026310 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was a bloody battle there, tons of cells fought it out; by definition, only those tough enough to survive chaotic conditions will remain at the end.
< 1274026324 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise they would have been destroyed. So it's a tautology that the debris of collisions is tough·
< 1274026326 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/./
< 1274026344 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Hey, you're using naturally-made resources from the Field to reinforce your products.
< 1274026360 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This strong material was formed from chaotic collisions millions of generations ago..."
< 1274026379 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We mind it from a desolate part of the Inner Field and brought it to our products to make sure they have the best defences possible."
< 1274026426 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's impossible to synthesise, though, and creating it by burning junk would produce too many gliders to be safe.
< 1274026452 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, I don't think there's anything wrong with doing it in a lab beforehand :-)
< 1274026454 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just find it amusing.
< 1274026461 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is it impossible to synthesise, though?
< 1274026466 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean while running the thing it's used in?
< 1274026470 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, obviously.
< 1274026479 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could probably use a program to create a very resilient material.
< 1274026487 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The left side of the telegaph is now completely destroyed; just debris. It isn't even firing gliders any more.
< 1274026510 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The right side is as of yet undamaged, but the destroyer will reach it soon.
< 1274026530 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, this looks really dangerous.
< 1274026534 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does?
< 1274026543 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The funny thing is, the right side hasn't had any idea of any of this happening :-)
< 1274026546 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are a bunch of queen bees here; some of them are emitting gliders that are colliding with each other and producing fireballs.
< 1274026554 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, every time, the fireballs die out before causing any damage.
< 1274026559 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least, assuming observers in the Game of Life obey regular laws.
< 1274026566 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Best. Movie. Ever.
< 1274026575 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Queen bees shooting space ships that explode into fireballs.
< 1274026595 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's more, a random glider recently flew in and managed to not make the reaction destroy itself.
< 1274026612 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BRAVE WARRIOR
< 1274026612 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which pattern?
< 1274026618 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pause it, screenshot it, post the rle.
< 1274026631 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and occasionally, it emits a glider toward some debris...
< 1274026642 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This has to be artificial.  I'm betting that the original pattern contained this exact thing.
< 1274026667 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cambrian explosion is fun to burn, too.
< 1274026681 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Post RLE!
< 1274026688 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/HEHLhKxK
< 1274026697 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what format that is; let's hope it's RLE.  :P
< 1274026717 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that's RLE.
< 1274026722 0 :tombom__!tombom@82.2.70.202 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274026727 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll let Phantom_Hoover investigate.
< 1274026743 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The destroyer is almost at the first component of the right end.
< 1274026750 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it didn't affect it!
< 1274026751 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here it comes.
< 1274026754 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's the big one.
< 1274026755 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thev ery end.
< 1274026768 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION saves
< 1274026770 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*The very
< 1274026777 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BOOM
< 1274026783 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The transmitter is no longer working.
< 1274026784 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an artificial high-period gun.
< 1274026785 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Collisions.
< 1274026789 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here comes the next wave of spaceships.
< 1274026789 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My, this is making a dramatic exit.
< 1274026790 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They exploded!
< 1274026800 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KAPOW
< 1274026801 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KAZAM
< 1274026802 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WALLOP
< 1274026803 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SMASH
< 1274026812 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Coyote finally caught me
< 1274026813 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's emitting a glider every few hundred generations, and that glider is hitting some debris, causing it to draw ever closer...
< 1274026816 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The machinery is ... surviving, gliders and spaceships are still coming.
< 1274026824 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's spreading, though
< 1274026861 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firing spaceships at fire tends to make the fire travel up the stream.
< 1274026863 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the little personnel operating this transmission station are going to die eventually.
< 1274026874 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION puts it on hyperspeed
< 1274026877 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, nah.
< 1274026879 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just normal speed.
< 1274026891 0 :rodgort!~rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274026896 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hashing doesn't work well for chaotic patterns.
< 1274026896 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoa, I made it go far too fast.
< 1274026908 0 :tombom_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1274026918 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, spoiler, here's what happens to the right side: The entire machine is replaced by a bunch of oscillators and still lifes.
< 1274026928 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Complete oblivion. Even the bits at the outskirts.
< 1274026958 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoa.
< 1274026971 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even know HOW it destroyed the bits at the outskirts.
< 1274026977 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This debris produced a ship right next to the machine's output.
< 1274026986 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm guessing that the next glider out will destroy the machine instantly.
< 1274026996 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, it just deleted the boat.
< 1274026997 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: There is a known oscillator that looks like the sun, right?
< 1274026999 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ship.
< 1274027001 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :short period
< 1274027016 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3? That's the pulsar, then.
< 1274027019 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fairly common.
< 1274027043 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, just didn't recognise it.
< 1274027048 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, perhaps 4 period.
< 1274027049 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure.
< 1274027054 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the machine's dead, turned into a single glider gun!
< 1274027058 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, three.
< 1274027062 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see whether its beam moves forward or backward.
< 1274027081 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The oscillator that's a backwards S and a block and a little blip bats backwards and forwards, I like that one.
< 1274027102 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1274027107 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: is this queen-bee-turn.rle?
< 1274027108 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: wat
< 1274027109 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Period?
< 1274027117 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, is it something unknown?
< 1274027121 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the period of this oscillator?
< 1274027129 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reopens it
< 1274027137 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's low period and in ash, then almost certainly no.
< 1274027162 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somewhere in the vicinity of ~29-31.
< 1274027170 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't tell for sure; too complex.
< 1274027191 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Want it?
< 1274027211 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: possibly; I don't know what that is.
< 1274027215 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF; it doesn't work out of context.
< 1274027222 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously.
< 1274027232 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are no alive cells near, but copying it to its own file makes it do something completely different.
< 1274027247 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RLE?
< 1274027251 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you're doing something wrong.
< 1274027260 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Sure, I'll give you the RLE it's in and the coords.
< 1274027295 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's in DRH-oscillators, the information thing has a list of what they're all called.
< 1274027308 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's in the debris.
< 1274027338 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://filebin.ca/nmovkc/telegraph-in-peril.rle; there are multiple but the one I'm looking at is around XY= 308 1,392
< 1274027347 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1:4 scale works
< 1274027501 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that's the Queen Bee shuttle.
< 1274027553 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Queen bees sure are popular today.
< 1274027560 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: How come copying it out doesn't work?
< 1274027591 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you keeping the fish-hook and block with it?
< 1274027602 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's unstable by itself.
< 1274027621 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1274027641 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now it works.
< 1274027643 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sheesh.
< 1274027645 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what I did wrong.
< 1274027667 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there any methuselahs that, after their lifespan, kill every one of their cells?
< 1274027671 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be cool.
< 1274027674 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like a really, really long fuse.
< 1274027706 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Miscellaneous/die658.rle
< 1274027715 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Golly come with the Caterpillar?
< 1274027737 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1274027754 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you get it to download patterns like it said it could?
< 1274027759 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, yeah, I was thinking of that one.
< 1274027786 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Help>Online Archives
< 1274027804 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The caterpillar is in Summers' one.
< 1274027828 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://holyspiritvictorious4ever.blogspot.com/2009/03/1111-phenomenon-links-2012-to-baghdad.html
< 1274027841 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Help. Well that makes sense
< 1274027847 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not
< 1274027855 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the lifewiki archive good?
< 1274027887 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's good for quick lookup of simple spaceships and oscillators.
< 1274027905 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't have any complex circuits, AFAIK.
< 1274027905 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, I downloaded it; how do I install it?
< 1274027908 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or does Golly not do that?
< 1274027934 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Caterpillar? That huge ship with odd speed?
< 1274027951 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you click on patterns in the archive Golly loads them. Ilari: Yes.
< 1274027988 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but I want it in my breeders directory
< 1274027999 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274028020 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Completely crazy: Caterpillar gun. :->
< 1274028020 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I think you can just use the save thing.
< 1274028038 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For every single one? No.
< 1274028042 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just do it manually.
< 1274028066 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION organises Patterns folder into Golly and jslife
< 1274028077 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If one knows glider synthethis for some spaceship, can one transform that into gun for that spaceship?
< 1274028090 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Why not?
< 1274028096 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just a restricted subset of a universal constructor, right?
< 1274028100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any idea where fizzie may be?
< 1274028102 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Running in a loop using that synthesis.
< 1274028114 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's obviously possible, it's just a matter of making it... not a universal constructor-computer
< 1274028141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<AnMaster> any idea where fizzie may be? <alise> Running in a loop using that synthesis. <-- XD (yes I know it wasn't related, but...)
< 1274028145 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1274028147 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1274028151 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool, jslife/applications/unit110cell.lif.
< 1274028154 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still not quite the nice output I'd like.
< 1274028237 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION scrolls through the Caterpillar at one-quarter scale using the down-arrow in Golly.
< 1274028240 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which takes a while.
< 1274028241 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The idea I have for transforming glider synthethis into gun is to trace the pattern backwards into glider field and then use (high-perioid) glider guns plus reflectors to construct that field.
< 1274028259 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: (10,2)c/10 -- what does /this/ notation mean?
< 1274028268 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know Mc/N, but what is (X,Y)c/N?
< 1274028276 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a fuse; s-a bunch of 9s.lif.
< 1274028282 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It translates (X,Y) in N generations.
< 1274028288 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Translates?
< 1274028289 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in rotates?
< 1274028290 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION begins running it.
< 1274028303 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems this ought to get up to speed pretty quickly.
< 1274028321 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, its not a ship, ships can't have that high speed.
< 1274028322 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> Translates? <alise> As in rotates? <-- I thought translate == move x/y, not "rotate
< 1274028325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"
< 1274028326 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's a fuse, it's probably the period of the burning bit and how much it burns.
< 1274028326 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love how straight lines make sierpinski triangles in Life.
< 1274028332 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's hawt.
< 1274028334 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::|
< 1274028341 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Almost enough to make you believe Wolfram
< 1274028351 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan and I were discussing that earlier...
< 1274028353 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh heh.
< 1274028368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, they do? in the same line or?
< 1274028374 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Straight lines are also the only things that can propagate into a vacuum at lightspeed.
< 1274028378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it build one in a direction?
< 1274028379 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just a straight line downwards creates two sierpinski triangles
< 1274028387 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: We discussed it here a while ago.
< 1274028388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tests
< 1274028391 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION runs the Caterpillar at hyperspeed.
< 1274028397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, 1 wide? continuous?
< 1274028398 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The junk left behind is a Sierpinski triangle.
< 1274028400 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1274028404 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: A slightly off-straight line makes a "mucky" Sierpinski triangle.
< 1274028409 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's highest possible sum of velocities in directions for spaceship? 1/2 (LWSS, MWSS, HWSS and glider all have that velocity sum)?
< 1274028417 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is made up of less defined debris, but still looks right.
< 1274028424 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: what makes that a sum?
< 1274028434 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In any case, yeah, 1/2 is the fastest possible spaceship.
< 1274028435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, minimum length?
< 1274028438 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: x and y component sum.
< 1274028443 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1274028445 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I know 3 = oscillator
< 1274028454 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you might be able to go faster.
< 1274028458 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: four or five or so
< 1274028460 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd do about 30
< 1274028471 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm not 30
< 1274028484 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A few hundred is nice, too.
< 1274028504 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://gawker.com/5539717/steve-jobs-offers-world-freedom-from-porn?skyline=true&s=i
< 1274028507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no way that was...
< 1274028509 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the RLE syntax for N-pixel down line?
< 1274028530 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION makes a little modification to the Caterpillar.
< 1274028537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, which generation? or some average over several?
< 1274028548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also is there any "straight line drawing" in golly
< 1274028550 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Naturally, this modification destroys it.
< 1274028565 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Life patterns are *very* fragile.
< 1274028577 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A cell out of place can destroy the whole thing.
< 1274028585 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is c/2 the fastest possible spaceship?
< 1274028589 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Because it is.
< 1274028599 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Helpful!
< 1274028605 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Jobs is a hardass, we know this. However listening to Gawker about anything is idiotic, especially as they knowingly bought a stolen next-gen iPhone to write a review, then were total dicks about it when everyone found out
< 1274028608 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it simply is so.
< 1274028610 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been proved.
< 1274028610 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A C spaceship is impossible on a non-toroidal universe.
< 1274028654 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a sort-of proof.
< 1274028698 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this margin large enough to contain it?
< 1274028703 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How long caterpillar is front to back as its longest?
< 1274028703 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRC is basically just distributed marginalia.
< 1274028709 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, I just wanted an excuse to use the word marginalia.
< 1274028709 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was talking to a friend, mentioned how the SIM card is not in, and he suggests that I should have just bought an iPod Touch
< 1274028722 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to go soon.
< 1274028731 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye in advance Phantom_Hoover
< 1274028734 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Well, he is wrong.
< 1274028736 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I cannot outline my proof.
< 1274028737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I must be doing something wrong... I can't spot any sierpinski triangle...
< 1274028745 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: When will you be back? I have so many irritating Life questions to ask you! :P
< 1274028751 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Is it totally straight and downwards? How long is it?
< 1274028760 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I don't know.
< 1274028767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm do golly allow you to measure that?
< 1274028769 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: /Will/ you be back?
< 1274028773 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1274028773 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Just eyeball it.
< 1274028782 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Today? IN FIVE YEARS?
< 1274028792 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, eh... wait
< 1274028793 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today!
< 1274028800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, population at generation 0 is 404
< 1274028801 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YAY HOORAY
< 1274028803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus it is 404 long
< 1274028811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I draw maybe 50 cells then copy-pasted
< 1274028815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and verified it was straight
< 1274028818 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, how far in advance can "Bye in advance" be said?
< 1274028819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no gaps
< 1274028826 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could I say bye in advance to alise right now?
< 1274028883 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274028886 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye in advance, everyone.
< 1274028887 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: No
< 1274028894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, how many generations does it take to see sierpinski, I let it run until it became stable mostly
< 1274028894 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: give rle
< 1274028895 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I say this not because I plan to leave, but because I'm counting on you leaving.
< 1274028900 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: like a few
< 1274028901 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, sec...
< 1274028938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it went stable around 30 000 generations (eye balling from fast speed) not a lot of sierpinski patterns there
< 1274028951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all still lifes heh
< 1274028965 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you did something wrong
< 1274028976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait not all still lifes, was doing acceleration still
< 1274029009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, saving RLE atm
< 1274029022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, is RLE text only? pastebin would be easiest
< 1274029024 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it is.
< 1274029025 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here is a life-like rule for you all: B38/S23
< 1274029044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, http://sprunge.us/eSjZ
< 1274029064 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokoko
< 1274029082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm wait there is a sierpinski-like patterns early on but it goes away quickly
< 1274029090 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the maximum length is about 330 800. At 17c/45, it takes about 876 000 generations to travel its own length. Quite huge perioid for gun...
< 1274029094 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The Sierpinski is there, you just have not noticed it
< 1274029100 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make a bigger line, then zoom out
< 1274029107 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants to play Gish on a computer that can actually handle it
< 1274029118 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you know, it is very tedious to draw a straight line in golly
< 1274029128 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(version 2.1)
< 1274029152 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can get RLEs in Golly with select/copy, and I must go now.
< 1274029163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but that was tricky to align
< 1274029169 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worse, that would mean constructing glider gun with perioid of about 900 000 for caterpillar gun.
< 1274029173 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, check that line after 5000 generations
< 1274029261 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye Phantom_Hoover
< 1274029330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, okay I can see it early on while it is still growing now
< 1274029370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit harder to see it once it went stable... the pattern is "fuzzier" then
< 1274029449 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274029460 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye Phantom_Hoover
< 1274029474 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i think a slightly non-straight line (moves to the right one pixel at some point) gives the best results
< 1274029475 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget
< 1274029501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, is it possible to get one where it isn't cut in the middle of a given "level" if you see what I mean.
< 1274029542 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1274029576 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://youtube.com/watch?v=fJEpxPWJAh8
< 1274029588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, if you look at it when it went stable (initial length of line is now 3035) you can see the middle looks like a extremely wide and squashed hour glass, right?
< 1274029592 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole in the middle
< 1274029611 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Random fill percentage: 50"
< 1274029613 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can I do a random fill?
< 1274029623 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I didn't look at it for too long
< 1274029637 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, like the two triangles meet in the middle of a "level" of the outermost triangles
< 1274029639 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl food
< 1274029925 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How fast can a spacefiller fill a patterned background, I wonder?
< 1274029929 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, not already filled.
< 1274030148 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION attempts to make a B/S rule based on silly idioms and truisms.
< 1274030156 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, two's company and three's a crowd; so obviously S2 and not S3.
< 1274030174 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need a loving, stable family with a mother and father to survive, obviously, so you can't be born with 0 or 1, has to be 2.
< 1274030189 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Umm, you need a nice community around you, which can be of size seven or eight, so S78.
< 1274030199 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you can also be born by massive orgies between the community, so B78.
< 1274030208 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funny. It's chaotic.
< 1274030210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, wrt spacefiller: golly contains some example
< 1274030223 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but not with a pattern.
< 1274030226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :notes mention theoretical upper bound
< 1274030239 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :half of space?
< 1274030239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for the all-cardinal-directions one at least)
< 1274030259 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or was it a speed bound? I think I remember seeing half of space as a bound
< 1274030264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(iirc it can be faster if only growing in left/right _or_ up/down but not both
< 1274030283 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: c/4 all directions, c/2 half
< 1274030286 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that doesn't answer my question
< 1274030289 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I asked about patterned backgrounds
< 1274030307 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if it grows diagonally?
< 1274030325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c/4?
< 1274030345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what do you mean c/4 all c/2 half?
< 1274030353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#C Spacefillers are the fastest-growing known pattern in Conway's
< 1274030353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#C  Game of Life (probably the fastest possible). They fill space
< 1274030353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#C  to a density of 1/2, conjectured to be the maximum density,
< 1274030353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#C  and they do it at a speed of c/2 in each of the 4 directions,
< 1274030353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#C  which has been proven to be the maximum possible speed.
< 1274030360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is what the info says for that
< 1274030362 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I thought it was c/4.
< 1274030365 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, then; c/2.
< 1274030369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and what do you mean patterned bg exactly?
< 1274030377 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Normally, the background is a pattern of all dead cells.
< 1274030381 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, "conjectured"
< 1274030383 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure you can figure out what I mean.
< 1274030407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, err? no it isn't. That space filler draws dead/alive/dead 1-width strips
< 1274030407 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It's very likely to be true, I think.
< 1274030411 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you play Night and Day, I think it is, you can say that they're all live
< 1274030415 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trust it as you trust the Riemann hypothesis or the Collatz conjecture.
< 1274030421 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, Day and Night.
< 1274030429 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Stop talking until you understand the very plain meaning of what I said.
< 1274030431 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it is however a still life it draws. All dead cells doesn't really fill space, it is empty
< 1274030442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, oh you mean prior existing bg?
< 1274030454 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What program are you using?
< 1274030458 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes.
< 1274030459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, golly here
< 1274030478 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION had Mirek's Celebration once
< 1274030490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I suspect it depends on the pattern. Plus you would have to fit the filler to the specific pattern probably so they didn't destroy each other
< 1274030516 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Mirek's Cellebration
< 1274030539 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Random fill is control-5
< 1274030540 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Of course.
< 1274030544 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You are back?
< 1274030564 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Cellebration is good, particularly w/r/t Margolus rules
< 1274030565 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control-5 doesn't work here
< 1274030592 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't even know what a Margolus rule is
< 1274030595 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you got a seletion
< 1274030601 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, was surprised to see Golly has this: http://golly.sourceforge.net/win-loops.png
< 1274030602 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/seletion/selection/
< 1274030614 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Why?
< 1274030624 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ah, no
< 1274030628 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: can't I fill infinite space???
< 1274030632 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It only added multi-state CAs a couple of versions ago
< 1274030634 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's something I saw in Cellebration, and for some reason, thought it unique to Cellebration
< 1274030636 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Of course not!
< 1274030640 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Why not?
< 1274030644 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's perfectly mathematically consistent!
< 1274030653 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would require infinite memory and CPU time!
< 1274030667 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274030679 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION plops Phantom_Hoover and alise on a torus
< 1274030693 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No!
< 1274030698 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just compute the random numbers on the fly!
< 1274030731 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, where is ctrl-5 documented?
< 1274030739 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know
< 1274030770 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Edit>Random fill has the key combination next to it.
< 1274030779 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are so many B/S rules similar to Life?
< 1274030788 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Oh, I didn't even notice that
< 1274030826 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: who speaks German here
< 1274030827 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries in vain to find out what CyTime it is
< 1274030844 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: I don't know that we have any Germans or German speakers.
< 1274030846 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why?
< 1274030853 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: jix
< 1274030855 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look, alise! A shitty ancient 3d thing that I'm not paying money for because I'm not THAT nostalgic.. ok, so I am nostalgic
< 1274030870 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I need a book translated and I'm trying to get as many people to help out as possible
< 1274030886 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah yes, jix.
< 1274030895 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: "Too many cooks" instantly appeared in my head.
< 1274030899 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: Are you alive?
< 1274030901 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Having many, many people translate one book?
< 1274030921 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes, one person on the internet won't translate 500 pages for me
< 1274030935 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well maybe there is one who would, but for the most part, they won't
< 1274030938 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There must be a wiki for this...
< 1274030954 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: But the result will probably not be such good quality; mixed styles and such.
< 1274030964 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like getting many people to typeset one book.
< 1274030974 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I would go through after
< 1274030980 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and fix things up
< 1274030981 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm.
< 1274031002 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just can't afford to hire a single translator to do all of the work unfortunately.
< 1274031010 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://wiki-translation.com/tiki-index.php might be of help.
< 1274031021 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not doing this solely for myself; in fact, someone else brought it up
< 1274031054 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Abuse of this function will get you reported to Security"
< 1274031061 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hopefully asking what time it is isn't "abuse"
< 1274031141 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: What book?
< 1274031165 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A book on continued fractions: die lehre von den kettenbrĂĽchen von dr. oskar perron
< 1274031217 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like continued fractions. A whole book on them seems excessive though :)
< 1274031254 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: CFs are pretty deep and MyStErIoUs
< 1274031268 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're pretty deep and mysterious. Or something
< 1274031286 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mysterious throat
< 1274031321 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I take it it's an open problem as to what pattern is the most "useful" for things like lightspeed travel?
< 1274031328 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, the easiest for things to survive in and what not.
< 1274031335 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The most lubricant fabric of space.
< 1274031357 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: haha <3
< 1274031359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> Just compute the random numbers on the fly! <-- that works for 1 generation
< 1274031372 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you store them after computing
< 1274031373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err 0 generation I mean
< 1274031373 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously
< 1274031376 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For lightspeed travel, the stripy agar is probably best.
< 1274031385 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any page about the stripy agar?
< 1274031392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yeah but you need to consider all of space for each generation
< 1274031404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning you need infinite space after 1 generation already
< 1274031416 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's literally just alternating black/white rows.
< 1274031418 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: hmm... but truly random cells in life will produce truly random results, right?
< 1274031420 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So who cares?
< 1274031420 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The stripy agar.
< 1274031424 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I did that, but it exploded.
< 1274031424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ...
< 1274031434 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, lightspeed travel?
< 1274031436 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Well, it needs stabilisation.
< 1274031444 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Only across a pre-prepared space.
< 1274031448 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's easy to do so.
< 1274031458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl
< 1274031482 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: There's also the lightspeed telegraph, which is a machine with two very slow and inefficient machines at each end, and a very long strip of simple wire connecting them; one machine sends blips along this wire; they then travel at lightspeed, and the other machine absorbs them.
< 1274031500 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The receiving endpoint is very inefficient, though, and the blips carried are very chaotic; so it's not practical in its current form.
< 1274031507 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww
< 1274031516 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chaotic howso?
< 1274031522 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not easily detected.
< 1274031531 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if you need some particles to travel across a very, very long distance, then the lightspeed telegraph will be helpful.
< 1274031532 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Creation and detection is very complex.
< 1274031537 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And surely, no matter the inefficiency, it's practical given a long enough space...
< 1274031538 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're talking LONG here.
< 1274031552 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is SLOW.
< 1274031586 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the scale of the example that comes with Golly, sending c/2 spaceships would be hugely faster.
< 1274031609 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd need a cord of several million beehives long for it to be faster than c/2 spaceships, wouldn't you?
< 1274031617 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since the spaceship-emitter at the receiving end is just so slow.
< 1274031622 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe thousands rather than millions.
< 1274031622 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still.
< 1274031634 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since when is a beehive a unit of length?
< 1274031644 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274031651 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It isn't.
< 1274031651 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.conwaylife.com/wiki/index.php?title=Beehive
< 1274031657 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Say, why aren't blocks useful for the wire?
< 1274031674 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1274031683 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need a reaction that burns along a track and leaves a copy of the track behind.
< 1274031684 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: iiuc basically lightspeed communication isn't really giving you anything if the machinery is so complicated you have to expand the machine by a factor >= 2 to compensate
< 1274031707 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because then why not use the smaller machine with c/2 stuff
< 1274031716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, btw that "FTL tunnel" illusion based on building the back of an already constructed front... couldn't it still be used for communication?
< 1274031717 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well actually the two ends are constant-size in the lightspeed telegraph
< 1274031726 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, if all you want is a one-shot signal or such
< 1274031728 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no matter what length the wire they emit the received stuff at the same (slow, slow) pace
< 1274031734 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you have a really, really long wire, it'd be faster
< 1274031744 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm not sure if it's easily extensible.
< 1274031747 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: is there not a spaceship that survives blocks and poops one out?
< 1274031754 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: yes but if you used it for memory, you'd have to have many receivers wouldn't you
< 1274031758 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it would be impossible to have the complexity of the machinery depend on the length of the wire
< 1274031759 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it go at lightspeed?
< 1274031760 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The lightspeed telegraph is usable for communication.
< 1274031763 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given a sufficiently long wire.
< 1274031766 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, this was FTL
< 1274031767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..
< 1274031773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, iirc
< 1274031776 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's not FTL.
< 1274031776 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm... not neccessarily, it'd just be slower
< 1274031780 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an illusion.
< 1274031786 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yeah, it is
< 1274031788 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you had a, say, several million beehives long one...
< 1274031793 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: then it'd be faster
< 1274031833 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you had lots of LSTs next to each other you might be able to squeeze a decent bitrate.
< 1274031836 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, presumably, by the time you could correctly detect whether or not a signal was sent through, the average speed dropped to c or lower
< 1274031849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, didn't it detect just the front iirc?
< 1274031857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and assembled the back of a pre-assembled front?
< 1274031860 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1274031864 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Do you think, in your expert (:P) opinion, that practical lightspeed communication will ever be feasible in GOL?
< 1274031880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, and it ends up moving the head somewhat ahead of c?
< 1274031889 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I see no reason why not.
< 1274031900 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No; it's an illusion.
< 1274031906 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, and it ends up destroying the pre-assembled head if there is no ship
< 1274031918 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An example is the "Star Gate", an arrangement of three converging gliders that will mutually annihilate on collision. If a lightweight spaceship (LWSS) hits the colliding gliders, it will appear to move forwards by 11 cells in only 6 generations, and thus travel faster than light.[3] This illusion happens due to the fact that the glider annihilation reaction proceeds by the creation and soon-after destruction of another LWSS. When the incoming LWSS hits th
< 1274031919 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e colliding gliders, it isn't transported, but instead modifies the reaction so that the newly created LWSS can survive. The only signal being transmitted is that determining whether the outgoing LWSS should survive or not. This does not need to reach its destination until after the LWSS has been "transported", and so no information needs to travel faster than light.
< 1274031924 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: hm i guess for a RAM the actual bit rate needed is just logarithmic in the size...
< 1274031962 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The LST couldn't be used for memory storage; you'd use it for long-distance communication.
< 1274031973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so that hit must be timed?
< 1274031987 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All of the known signal circuitry uses spaceships and gliders.
< 1274031991 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my opinion, the most awesomest thing would be a Turing machine tape where the head is mounted on a surface that allows it to move at light-speed, and that also has a lightspeed communication line to the CPU; then, it could receive instructions from the CPU at lightspeed, modify the memory, read it, then send the read value back at lightspeed.
< 1274031996 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: well i'm thinking of when the memory is so huge you need long-distance communication to interact with it
< 1274032000 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be the ultimate Turing machine tape in Life.
< 1274032014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, couldn't you have a clocked signal then? with some guns or whatever they are called
< 1274032018 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except for that the ULTIMATE ultimate one would be where the whole tape moves so that reading and modifying the current cell is always near-instant.
< 1274032029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and make sure to send the signal synced
< 1274032033 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"spaceships and gliders" sounds redundant
< 1274032047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what happens if the LWSS is not there?
< 1274032048 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: You'd need a receiver that could be destroyed and reconstructed at c.
< 1274032057 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It is.
< 1274032065 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, then a partial LWSS is made, but then dies
< 1274032071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, well then...
< 1274032084 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Or you could embed the memory-instruction-processor into every cell of the tape.
< 1274032090 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: So that when you extend the tape it copies itself slowly.
< 1274032100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it can be used to forward with a clocked signal
< 1274032111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the partial LWSS will go away
< 1274032115 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Then all the communication line needs to do is, when it gets a lightspeed communication to the tape, move it into the processor; when it receives one from the tape, send it on to the CPU.
< 1274032122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just tested that by not sending a LWSS there
< 1274032127 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you can't do FTL communication
< 1274032127 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :end of
< 1274032130 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theoretical impossibility
< 1274032134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, not in reality
< 1274032141 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Excuse me?
< 1274032144 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Making a c signal stop at a set distance might be impossible.
< 1274032148 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please don't say "quantum entanglement".
< 1274032150 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will have to kill you.
< 1274032154 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, but in GOL you can if you can have a clocked signal
< 1274032154 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As the signal head is indestructible.
< 1274032154 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, try reviewing the rules of GoL
< 1274032161 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, impossible in reality
< 1274032169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, I do see the issue but... hm
< 1274032174 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: AnMaster believes he has come up with a way to do FTL communication in GOL; laugh at him to make him shut up or something
< 1274032225 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, by the time you can actually use something to detect whether the LWSS is there or not, the signal has no longer seemed to have taken lightspeed, I think
< 1274032229 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's patently impossible. The axioms only allow propagation of information at 1 cell/generation. END OF.
< 1274032231 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*faster than lightspeed
< 1274032233 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo is pretty much correct
< 1274032236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, open Sginal-Circuitry/stargate.rle in golly examples. Then remove the middle LWSS in the upper line. Check the results after running it a few generations
< 1274032249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(enough to let all go to the other side)
< 1274032264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, now, tell me how that does not seem to be FTL
< 1274032273 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, seem to be is the operative phrase
< 1274032294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, yes but in which was is it not then
< 1274032298 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It only looks FTL if you can see everything at once.
< 1274032315 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hm? what do you mean by that
< 1274032337 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU see it as FT.
< 1274032337 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, Has anyone really been far as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
< 1274032338 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*FTL
< 1274032342 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But anything in THE UNIVERSE
< 1274032344 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trying to PROCESS THIS OUTPUT
< 1274032348 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could NOT see it all as FTL
< 1274032354 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We are God, we are omnipotent, we can observe everything at once
< 1274032356 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cells in the universe can not
< 1274032384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, eh? I can't parse that grammar
< 1274032393 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, neither could I process yours
< 1274032405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, which one
< 1274032409 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<AnMaster> Sgeo, yes but in which was is it not then
< 1274032412 0 :Gregor-L!~Gregor@75-151-73-57-Spokane.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274032426 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, s/was/way/
< 1274032440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simple typo
< 1274032454 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not, because the signal to kill the new LWSS or not propagates at c or less
< 1274032471 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you try to detect the ship before that signal propagates, it will always be there
< 1274032476 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Did you get the thing about it being impossible for something at C to stop?
< 1274032477 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're GOL hobby physicists making a cruel mockery out of this crackpot's ideas! Mwahahaha!
< 1274032479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, hm?
< 1274032487 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS MUST BE WHAT IT'S LIKE TO FEEL TRULY INTELLIGENT
< 1274032492 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Wow, no.
< 1274032494 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you wait until the ship is either destroyed or not destroyed, then the signal travelled at c or less
< 1274032495 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: That is cool. Is it true?
< 1274032504 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: What if you put an amazing wall of blockingness in its path? I guess that doesn't count.
< 1274032510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I'm not saying I am right. I just want a good explanation of why I'm not
< 1274032518 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I guess the tick where it decided whether to destroy itself would make it c/2.
< 1274032519 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Gregor
< 1274032523 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Unless there's a wall in front, it can't stop.
< 1274032528 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ Is that why?
< 1274032531 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: yes
< 1274032533 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, there's a pre-made ship front. Trying to detect it to get a signal faster than light will always result in a detection, whether or not there was a signal
< 1274032534 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably.
< 1274032567 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, things at c can't stop without a wall?
< 1274032575 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1274032588 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The front of the signal can't be accessed by things behind it
< 1274032605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl phone
< 1274032658 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How to propagate a signal in Life faster than c:
< 1274032661 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: But can you have "stargates" at various points, which absorb the c-ship, then decide whether to fire another one on or not?
< 1274032666 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make a GoL simulation in GoL
< 1274032672 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, it slows it down from c for a bit, but it'd allow conditional destruction every now and then.
< 1274032682 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, this is exactly like science-fiction space engineering.
< 1274032689 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Corrupt one of the cells, so it sends a signal to a cell that's not a neighbor
< 1274032690 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, you could do that.
< 1274032705 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the overall speed would be slightly <c.
< 1274032719 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it would have to stop at each cell.
< 1274032722 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: But still a lot better than c/2, assuming your travel distance is long enough.
< 1274032723 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, not each cell.
< 1274032732 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Each tape cell.
< 1274032735 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah.
< 1274032736 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right.
< 1274032739 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the Turing machine.
< 1274032750 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... and each cell would be right next to each other, almost.
< 1274032755 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the c wire wouldn't get you much there, would it?
< 1274032763 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, well, you do need a c wire, but only for the return trip.
< 1274032766 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When accessing memory.
< 1274032772 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1274032772 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So accessing memory would be a lot faster than writing it.
< 1274032800 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So now we need to work out how to create a c wire which can have signals injected at regular intervals.
< 1274032802 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: If mounted on an appropriate surface, how fast could a whole tape move itself so that one tape-cell is at the (non-moving) head?
< 1274032805 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably not at lightspeed.
< 1274032824 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, reading/writing could be at lightspeed.
< 1274032841 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Very slowly.
< 1274032849 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right.
< 1274032863 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: How could reading/writing be at lightspeed, if it has to stop at every cell?
< 1274032869 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The read response can go at lightspeed, but the read request can't.
< 1274032881 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the write has no return journey.
< 1274032889 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prime the cell to intercept a signal on a lightwire.
< 1274032905 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then write whatever that was.
< 1274032927 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd need very careful timing, but it's plausible.
< 1274032985 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though wire crossing would come into it.
< 1274032995 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would it know when to intercept?
< 1274032999 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't know if it's The One.
< 1274033007 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if it collided and then decided, it'd be significantly sub-c.
< 1274033010 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tell it it's the One with the head.
< 1274033022 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's the whole problem; telling things to the cell!
< 1274033026 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1274033027 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That requires communication that stops!
< 1274033027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, oh right that is the issue. That LWSS travels at c/2... Why didn't you just say that
< 1274033032 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what we're trying to achieve :P
< 1274033034 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT would have been the clear answer
< 1274033038 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Because that's fucking obvious???
< 1274033039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to my question
< 1274033057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, depends on how well you know life.
< 1274033076 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it certainly wasn't to be
< 1274033079 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it travelled at c do you think we'd be saying all this stuff about complicated light-speed telegraphs?
< 1274033086 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Well, telling the cell it's The One will be much less data than read/writes.
< 1274033111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it could have been c/2 < speed < c for all I knew
< 1274033131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in theory for all I knew enough to make the increase worth it..
< 1274033147 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you could have a 2/c<<c wire to select the head.
< 1274033150 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Reading: "Cell, you are the one." Cell then poops off the data at lightspeed to the CPU.
< 1274033177 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Writing: "Cell, you are the one. (1 bit that only the one will examine)" Cell then poops the data onto the tape.
< 1274033194 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Writing: "Cell, you are the Write One", cell taps into lightwire and reads any signal on it.
< 1274033198 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't tell the cell it's the one any faster than that, and certainly not at lightspeed because it can't stop, and if you stopped it it's <c.
< 1274033207 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, what are those light speed bubbles? It doesn't seem mentioned on the life wiki. saw it at some other link posted here before
< 1274033213 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Err, why?
< 1274033218 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That wouldn't be significantly faster.
< 1274033226 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Tape cells only store 1 bit of information.
< 1274033230 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Bubbles?
< 1274033238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm
< 1274033242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was linked yesterday
< 1274033249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some page about light speed stuff
< 1274033267 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Oh, yeah.
< 1274033287 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So writing is at <c, reading is at c.
< 1274033291 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm
< 1274033294 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I mean, sure, it'd be /one/ less thing for the cell's intercept-and-interrogate handlers to copy out.
< 1274033297 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's, like, a few cells.
< 1274033297 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION loves pathological edge effects
< 1274033322 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Reading isn't quite at c, since you still need interception. It's <c for the part where the "You, gimme your value" signal travels down the wire; then =c when the read signal travels back.
< 1274033340 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that's what I meant.
< 1274033355 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably the "oi, it's you; (and if this is a write here is a bit)" should be done with c/2 spaceships, because intercepting and re-pooping (technical term) a c blip every single cell would end up really slow.
< 1274033395 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1274033426 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, why every single cell?
< 1274033434 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although tapping into the lightwire to the CPU would likely have a significant overhead.
< 1274033464 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since lightwires are by their nature very easy to burn.
< 1274033465 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, oh not GOL cell but memory cell (made up of several GOL cells)?
< 1274033473 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1274033478 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Confusing, I know.
< 1274033482 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1274033485 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yeah
< 1274033495 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's call them bits.
< 1274033500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, why not call it memory block such
< 1274033504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what Phantom_Hoover said
< 1274033525 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes, we're assuming that we've come up with a relatively efficient lightspeed receiver.
< 1274033536 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is the Java thing on the Wiki not working?
< 1274033542 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not so much the receiver as the sender.
< 1274033542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway. why not put it into several banks. Sure it wouldn't be exactly a Turing machine. But it might be more practical
< 1274033547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like several memory banks
< 1274033569 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The sender needs to be able to send to a lightwire at any point on its length.
< 1274033584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus if you could branch the signal you could have it check several banks in parallel
< 1274033615 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Works for me
< 1274033623 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No faster
< 1274033624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sure, if one of them didn't return, wouldn't matter would it? The signal would die when it hit the (current) end of the tape
< 1274033625 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Branching c signals is problematic.
< 1274033630 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, I think it's because I clicked Next
< 1274033631 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ah, i see
< 1274033635 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That broke something somehow
< 1274033639 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, okay do it before it transmits? thus the multiple banks
< 1274033640 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: so we need a lightwire that can accept communications at any part
< 1274033644 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't the telegraph have one of them?
< 1274033647 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's uniform all the way along
< 1274033650 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so given enough space...
< 1274033651 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: No
< 1274033668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, if you have 1024 places to check you might now have 2 parallel checks of 512 places instead
< 1274033687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like a probable win to me even if branching has a certain overhead
< 1274033701 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as the overhead is smaller than what you gain
< 1274033702 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd need a way to break the wire without burning it, then transmitting a signal, then fixing the wire perfectly.
< 1274033721 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I suggested branching *before* the transmitter at the CPU
< 1274033729 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK.
< 1274033732 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, using multiple transmitters
< 1274033736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one for each bank
< 1274033747 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll need to be synchronised, which is another issue with this design.
< 1274033771 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, local clocks synced at the start? It isn't as if life has any issues with clock drift :P
< 1274033796 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It'd be nice if there was an agar that allowed something to pass through such that the bit around the agar's edge would easily transform it into a spaceship of some sort
< 1274033802 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: OK, but what about signal latency?
< 1274033810 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's nice that Life has no clock drift or anything :P
< 1274033822 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no nondeterminism
< 1274033823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hm, make a pentium4 style pipeline? ;P
< 1274033835 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what would happen if I wrote a Life simulator with entanglement.
< 1274033841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, nah, depends on what you mean. Sure some latency will happen but in which part did you mean here
< 1274033845 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am unfamiliar with the structure of Pentium 4s.
< 1274033851 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, you can mark certain regions of space as entangled and pair them with another region.
< 1274033852 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does Maze work?
< 1274033856 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then any change on one side happens to the other.
< 1274033860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well it was a bad joke
< 1274033868 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This also means that a glider could innocently walk into the entangled region, then when it walks out it'll be TWO
< 1274033875 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one in the original location, one in the other entangled region
< 1274033877 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: COOL OR WAT.
< 1274033880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, anyway, where is the latency in this case. In the sender?
< 1274033914 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: COOL OR WAT.
< 1274033919 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you would have FTL
< 1274033923 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course you would
< 1274033923 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can patterns cause arbitrary regions to be entangled?
< 1274033924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think
< 1274033930 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It wouldn't just be entanglement, it would be AWESOME entanglement.
< 1274033930 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be cooler
< 1274033932 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: No
< 1274033935 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274033935 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww
< 1274033941 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It depends on which cell.
< 1274033941 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, a fixed region of space is entangled (by act of God).
< 1274033955 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's far away, the latency is high.
< 1274033955 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then if a glider moved in, it would cause cells in the entangled region to change, and thus the glider would appear weirdly in the other one.
< 1274033956 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is
< 1274033963 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first only the first part of the glider that hits the entangled region would appear
< 1274033969 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then quickly die out because it wouldn't have enough substance
< 1274033971 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would mangle the glider
< 1274033972 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1274033974 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it'd stop
< 1274033974 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1274033978 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ^^ see that
< 1274033982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well sure, "lower" addresses would be faster
< 1274033987 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: can you think of any way to make something go through the entangled region and not be obliterated?
< 1274034009 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: maybe have some sort of spaceship such that part of it is still life, such that when it enters, only the bottom row is there, but it connects with the previously-still top of it
< 1274034013 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and starts being a spaceship?
< 1274034022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, but that is where the banks come into it. Basically you check multiple cells at the same time that way
< 1274034022 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Change the transition rules, as cells in the entangled area effectively have 16 neighbours?
< 1274034024 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would then obliterate the one that entered, but the one that comes out would work
< 1274034031 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: nope, keep them the same
< 1274034037 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: they're treated as different cells
< 1274034039 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that you add one more rule
< 1274034049 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"whenever a cell in an entangled region changes, both entangled regions change accordingly"
< 1274034058 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only when it changes
< 1274034061 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"stay the same" would not conflict
< 1274034062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, if you are doing <c addressing and that allows branching a signal easily then you should do it like a tree or such to have just a few levels and be able to check a lot of memory cells at once
< 1274034066 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also, life takes precedence over death i think
< 1274034072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though
< 1274034082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :balanced binary tree sounds terribly complicated in life
< 1274034083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1274034109 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You know that dot matrix printer?
< 1274034118 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which one?
< 1274034119 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tlrobinson.net/blog/2009/02/07/game-of-life-generator/
< 1274034125 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using the same thing as the golly generator
< 1274034131 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1274034134 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I bet you could make one of them that takes dynamic input at simulation-time.
< 1274034137 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it'd be a generic output device.
< 1274034148 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course.
< 1274034159 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you look, it would be easy to do that.
< 1274034171 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The glider loops are basically inputs.
< 1274034186 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah.
< 1274034192 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Although...
< 1274034199 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What?
< 1274034200 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: With a universal constructor, you could just construct still lifes to do the same thing.
< 1274034203 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But a UC would be a lot slower, right?
< 1274034206 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1274034218 0 :capitancar!~capitanca@186.112.204.146 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274034221 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-65-69.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274034228 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Ooh, what about a Life unit cell with a UC? The life can hit a special region to control the UC >:)
< 1274034235 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello capitancar
< 1274034270 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean a simulation time-controllable UC?
< 1274034280 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1274034283 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :universal constructor
< 1274034284 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Again, you just need to emulate the stored instructions.
< 1274034300 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fire gliders at a construction arn.
< 1274034304 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/arn/arm/
< 1274034308 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<capitancar> que mas
< 1274034309 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> eh
< 1274034316 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<capitancar> comentame
< 1274034319 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :capitancar: english please
< 1274034328 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It is probably the most well-known one cell thick pattern"
< 1274034340 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What?
< 1274034347 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.conwaylife.com/wiki/index.php?title=One_cell_thick_pattern
< 1274034355 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think blinkers might be a bit more well known
< 1274034356 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.>
< 1274034365 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. I was going to say that.
< 1274034393 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, for once my Internet makes sense.
< 1274034404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, I didn't know of that pattern. I knew of blinkers though
< 1274034416 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It drops out because of heavy rain.
< 1274034417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :)(of course that is just one data point)
< 1274034421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/^)//
< 1274034424 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y'know, what you'd *expect*.
< 1274034446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm?
< 1274034467 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: your packets go into space man
< 1274034471 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :space is one cold motherfucker.
< 1274034474 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well for any sort of wireless communications it makes sense that weather have an effect
< 1274034494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that is what it's mum said!
< 1274034504 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I see :P
< 1274034561 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*its, also, *mom or mother for the joke
< 1274034562 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"That's the end of that one. Atmospheric conditions in outer space often interfere with transmitting. "
< 1274034609 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All that solar wind has an affect.
< 1274034613 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*effect
< 1274034633 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, trying to remember how I found out about GoL
< 1274034644 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember some program, that had a file 1103
< 1274034654 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't give it a name or anything, so I called it 1103
< 1274034664 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the R-pentomino)
< 1274034669 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Do you really think you need /more/ nostalgia?
< 1274034673 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found out about it when I found a rather crappy GoL simulator for the Mac Dashboard.
< 1274034683 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, YES!
< 1274034685 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Like I said, *it makes sense* for once.
< 1274034690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, heh
< 1274034694 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: KIDDO
< 1274034696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, how often does it rain there?
< 1274034702 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Too often.
< 1274034707 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think space was green
< 1274034707 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I then forgot about it until I read about it again in one of Ian Stewart's books.
< 1274034713 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: every time Obama cries
< 1274034713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ah then it is scared of the rare clear weather
< 1274034715 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every. time.
< 1274034716 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been raining for the past week.
< 1274034718 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cries. for freedom.
< 1274034720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, doesn't know how to handle it
< 1274034721 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At which point I got Golly and never looked back,
< 1274034748 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel like I'm British or something.
< 1274034929 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Tell me! Have you ever experienced DRIZZLE?
< 1274034944 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or DRANK TEA?
< 1274034950 0 :FredrIQ!~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274034960 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No; just DRIZZLE.
< 1274034964 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Answer, pikhq! Answer, you foul-mouthed cretin!
< 1274034978 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274035019 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: HAVE. YOU. EVER. EXPE-- oh, hello FredrIQ, sorry for your (first?) impressions of this channel, I'm just chastising silly pikhq here-- RIENCED. DRIZZLE?!
< 1274035026 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.qotile.net/blog/wp/?p=600
< 1274035040 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They look very mechanical.
< 1274035060 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh my god, qotile!
< 1274035062 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love that guy.
< 1274035063 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Drizzle" reminds me of CT
< 1274035073 0 :FredrIQ!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi, alise
< 1274035074 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: "Time is equated to the Z-axis"
< 1274035074 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes.
< 1274035075 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274035079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you know what, you should be able to do?
< 1274035096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, copy a pattern from golly then paste it into the search box on lifewiki
< 1274035101 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Are you SURE? Drizzle is not something you know to be drizzle, because its very virtue is its uncanny ability to make you feel rotten and get things wet without making an impression on anything.
< 1274035103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to search for the name of some specific pattern
< 1274035106 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :small ones
< 1274035108 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is not rain, it is worse than rain! It is of the devil and you never notice it!
< 1274035120 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is not malicious, it is merely so passively, mediocrely HORRIBLE that it destroys your soul!
< 1274035126 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAVE YOU _EVER_ EXPERIENCED DRIZZLE?
< 1274035149 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.qotile.net/blog/images/image5.jpg that looked physically real at first
< 1274035149 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: All I know is, I have certainly gone out and came back in and noticed that I was both wet and feeling awful.
< 1274035156 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without noticing the wettening itself.
< 1274035163 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wet, you see, wet, drizzle doesn't make you wet, it makes you drizzledupon.
< 1274035177 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Drizzle is nice
< 1274035187 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that maybe it was 3d printed\
< 1274035196 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have not experienced drizzle. You are scum to call yourself British! Never be ungrateful for your weather, for we have the powers contained within our atmosphere to crush your soul should one ever decide to introduce you to the real British climate!
< 1274035198 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also like-a the tea.
< 1274035205 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :REMEMBER THIS, HEATHEN!
< 1274035253 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Is YOUR last name the name of a shire?
< 1274035269 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1274035274 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elliott "Hird" Oxfordshire
< 1274035280 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AHA!
< 1274035288 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I KNOW WHERE YOU LIVE!
< 1274035299 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit, you got the good shire.
< 1274035299 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION mutters
< 1274035314 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even have a shire.
< 1274035315 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't actually live in Oxfordshire but it would be cool if I did
< 1274035320 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a mid.
< 1274035335 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is inexplicably named "Worcester".
< 1274035339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, what do you call a thing that looks like a LWSS but is one longer in the "longer" side? Thus making the gap in the opposite side 3 cells instead of 2. In the middle, and one up, in that gap there is an extra cell
< 1274035349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't think of a better way to describe it
< 1274035349 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A MWSS?
< 1274035352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1274035362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, yep looks like it
< 1274035370 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Worcester, pah. It's Worcestershire.
< 1274035376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, there should be some patternâ†’name lookup/search
< 1274035379 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION his AnMaster with an OWSS
< 1274035383 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, anyone who calls Worcestershire Sauce "Worcester sauce" is living in a state of Sin.
< 1274035390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, OWSS?
< 1274035394 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wust err shurr.
< 1274035401 0 :capitancar!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1274035412 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: True, true.
< 1274035413 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OverWeight Space Ship
< 1274035417 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Also note, I'm not actually called Oxfordshire
< 1274035417 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's more to the shire than Worcester.
< 1274035433 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well aware.
< 1274035436 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hird.
< 1274035456 0 :marchdown!~marchdown@ppp79-139-171-114.pppoe.spdop.ru JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274035464 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hirdshire
< 1274035472 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Totally a real shire
< 1274035473 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, are you a HURD of HIRDS?
< 1274035478 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, HERDS
< 1274035485 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Go away, Stallmanshire.
< 1274035501 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hereby decree that all surnames henceforth spoken in this channel must be suffixed, if they are not already, with "-shire".
< 1274035503 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Go away, Shireshire.
< 1274035506 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm,yeah, hird not herd
< 1274035521 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Phantom_Hooversh
< 1274035525 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is an ex cathedra declaration that calls under Papal infallability.
< 1274035527 0 :Phantom_Hooversh!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pah!
< 1274035529 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*infallibility.
< 1274035530 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, wait.
< 1274035532 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Sgeoshire
< 1274035533 0 :Phantom_Hooversh!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Phantom_Hoover
< 1274035537 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, infallability is now the official spelling.
< 1274035544 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I ever tell you guys I'm the Pope btw?
< 1274035546 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Hoovershire
< 1274035548 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :aliseshire
< 1274035554 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Awesome.
< 1274035569 0 :aliseshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone want something declared???
< 1274035581 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Declare that you are fallible!
< 1274035595 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto en no drizzle
< 1274035601 0 :aliseshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEVER
< 1274035603 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duskregn
< 1274035610 0 :aliseshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you don't have it, you can't possibly have a name for it
< 1274035617 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto no en yr
< 1274035619 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yr
< 1274035634 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact we have two names for it
< 1274035648 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but google only knows one of them
< 1274035679 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yeah, but we're English-speakers.
< 1274035685 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WE TAKE YOUR WORDS
< 1274035688 0 :aliseshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so wait
< 1274035691 0 :aliseshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yr.no is "drizzle.no"?
< 1274035692 0 :aliseshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1274035697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire, how do I fill random to some other density than 50% in golly?
< 1274035703 0 :aliseshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's in preferences
< 1274035711 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's in the Edit tab of Preferences.
< 1274035720 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Duskregn" and "yr" are now English words!
< 1274035720 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YAR!
< 1274035724 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseshire: MWAHAHA
< 1274035725 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ain't it awesome speaking English?
< 1274035730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseshire, eh? seems weird to make it a preference like that
< 1274035734 0 :aliseshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It is
< 1274035755 0 :aliseshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: *AnMastershire.
< 1274035757 0 :aliseshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: *pikhqshire
< 1274035759 0 :aliseshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: *oerjanshire
< 1274035789 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto en fi shire
< 1274035791 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta
< 1274035799 0 :aliseshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiantkreivikunta
< 1274035805 0 :aliseshire!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :kreivikunta
< 1274035811 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd use this name, except it has "kunt" in it
< 1274035820 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto en ja shire
< 1274035822 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ă‚·ăŁă‚¤ă‚˘
< 1274035825 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ENJOY YOUR NEW NICK
< 1274035831 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto en ru shire
< 1274035833 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ĐłŃ€Đ°Ń„ŃŃ‚Đ˛Đľ
< 1274035837 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lol, rushire.
< 1274035840 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rushire.
< 1274035843 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto en de shire
< 1274035845 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grafschaft
< 1274035853 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GRAFSCHAFT
< 1274035858 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That Japanese just says "shaia" (I think) i.e. it only transliterated
< 1274035865 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupid Google
< 1274035872 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did notice it had a striking lack of kanji
< 1274035884 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about SĂ»za?
< 1274035888 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto fi en kreivi
< 1274035890 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :count
< 1274035927 0 :Sgeoshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, http://www.conwaylife.com/wiki/index.php?title=Teleportation
< 1274035930 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto en no shire
< 1274035931 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto en fi county
< 1274035934 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shire
< 1274035937 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto fi en kreivikunta
< 1274035940 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sigh*
< 1274035940 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :county
< 1274035945 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto en fi county
< 1274035948 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :l×”×”ni
< 1274035949 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1274035952 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok we have drizzle but apparently we don't have shires
< 1274035952 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lĂ¤Ă¤ni*
< 1274035953 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto en no county
< 1274035956 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1274035968 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto en fi lĂ¤Ă¤ni
< 1274035970 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1274035970 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops
< 1274035973 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto fi en lĂ¤Ă¤ni
< 1274035982 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1274035987 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah
< 1274035994 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto fi en l×”×”ni
< 1274035999 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1274036004 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah
< 1274036041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange, golly must be leaking memory, swap trashing. Restarting it and it goes away
< 1274036042 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah if i believe the german, shire would be "grevskap" in norwegian.  and our constitution prohibits nobility, so...
< 1274036044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a while
< 1274036063 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in fact shires are illegal here :)
< 1274036068 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hashing takes tonnes of memory.
< 1274036100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire, I did set a memory limit in preferences
< 1274036109 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire, for both hashlife and quicklife
< 1274036110 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it going above that
< 1274036112 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :??
< 1274036113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire, and I was using quicklife
< 1274036123 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto de en Grafschaft
< 1274036125 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1274036127 0 :Sgeoshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pokes AnMaster 
< 1274036129 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh.
< 1274036130 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should probably notify the devs, then.
< 1274036138 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: is your constitution amendable?
< 1274036141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire, yeah mem limit was set to 500 MB for each. System has 4 GB RAM. Golly was according to htop using 80% of total memory
< 1274036148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I have 4 GB swap too
< 1274036155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for suspend to disk reasons)
< 1274036161 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't give it swap, BTW.
< 1274036177 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta: certainly
< 1274036178 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The access times make it too slow, apparently.
< 1274036179 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274036179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire, well 500 MB should be much less that the limit for swap
< 1274036184 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes,
< 1274036193 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: just amend it then! :P
< 1274036266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire, sure there is some overhead. And then there is X and Gnome. But without golly running it is like 200 MB RAM used (including disk cache, which was almost completely eaten due to the swap trashing, kernel prefers to throw away disk cache iirc
< 1274036267 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta: i think that may have been one of the original provisions from 1814, even
< 1274036274 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274036283 0 :Sgeoshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would a spherical playing field for GoL work?
< 1274036303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire, I was studying random fill. I believe it might have happened when switching between hash algorithms
< 1274036306 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what, forbidding shires?; or allowing amendment?
< 1274036312 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if allowing amendment, by definition it must have been one of the first
< 1274036321 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeoshire: Don't you mean circular?
< 1274036322 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta: well both presumably
< 1274036323 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or do you mean spherical?
< 1274036326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire, I found hashlife was too slow until it has become mostly stable. But then hashlife works fine
< 1274036328 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If spherical, it's just a regular wrapping.
< 1274036335 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but what did you mean?
< 1274036347 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobility and shires
< 1274036348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire, so I used quicklife for some 2000-3000 generations then switched to hashlife. I believe the mem leak is related to that
< 1274036354 0 :Sgeoshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like the logo of the Life wiki
< 1274036361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire, also I got a nice pattern that looks kind of like a face here
< 1274036367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from that randomness
< 1274036371 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikuntashire should be a shire.
< 1274036377 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta: iirc as far as land is concerned what the constitution prohibits is any form of inheritance which requires the heir not to sell the property
< 1274036382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire, a collision of gliders leaving the random region produced it
< 1274036409 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION checks whether gliders can produce Pi-heptominoes
< 1274036422 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this has the effect of preventing land-based nobility families
< 1274036436 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Kreivikuntashire is just shireshire :P
< 1274036449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire, well I think it was gliders. A bit hard to tell: initial population was >500,000
< 1274036449 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it also forbids inherited noble titles separately, i think
< 1274036495 0 :Sgeoshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.conwaylife.com/wiki/index.php?title=Aircraft_carrier those islands look further away then they are
< 1274036500 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(those who were nobility at the time the constitution went into effect stayed so, but it didn't pass to their children.  iiuc.)
< 1274036535 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iiuc?
< 1274036543 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i understand correctly
< 1274036558 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeoshire: no they don't?
< 1274036565 0 :Sgeoshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To me they do *shrug*
< 1274036581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire, it was a 2-glider collision
< 1274036612 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, pi-heptominoes create a debris cloud that looks like a face and are 2-glider synthesisable
< 1274036613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire, two ponds, 6 blocks, 5 blinkers. Arranged kind of like a face
< 1274036644 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that's a Pi-heptomino.
< 1274036646 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire, probably you know the collision already. Saw some list of possible 2-glider-collisions on the wiki
< 1274036657 0 :Sgeoshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, try reading the chat?
< 1274036661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire, how rare is that in random 25% fill I wonder
< 1274036667 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta: NEED MOAR SHIRE
< 1274036669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeoshire, too busy watching pretty patterns ;P
< 1274036685 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's a pretty common object.
< 1274036695 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Also. Yes, of course it only transliterated. "Shire" is a loanword in Japanese. :)
< 1274036706 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:04 [freenode] -!- ă‚·ăŁă‚¤ă‚˘shir Erroneous Nickname
< 1274036707 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1274036717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire, sure but not quite as common outside the random block from my tries so far
< 1274036761 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It's not "of course", there could be an equivalent concept it translates to. Although I guess that since it originates in European nobility it should be obvious that there isn't.
< 1274036782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire, hm zooming a lot causes swap trash too. But yes memory limit is set and population is "only" 487141 now
< 1274036796 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta: hm it looks like the constitution only prohibited establishing _new_ titles, while a later law of 1821 abolished the old ones (except for people keeping titles until they died)
< 1274036801 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire, initial population was 4090522
< 1274036812 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire. Initial population 4090522
< 1274036832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta, hm? why are you repeating what I said?
< 1274036838 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoosh
< 1274036841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh duh
< 1274036845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I saw the change
< 1274036876 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta: apparently norway only had 3 noble titles previous to this, anyway (which presumably made it easy to abolish)
< 1274036930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, heh. And how many had each of those types of title?
< 1274036937 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Again, if you're getting persistent memory leaks, you should tell the devs.
< 1274036967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire, it does seem related to switching algorithm on the fly. Not completely sure. It is a bit random...
< 1274036985 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire, but yes I will. Probably not this evening. Got some other things to do really...
< 1274036994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION minimises irc client
< 1274037008 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster AnMaster AnMaster
< 1274037025 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well three Stamhus (shires?), really.  actually one of them (Jarlsberg) still exists, the constitution only prohibits making new ones
< 1274037066 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Even if there *was* an equivalent concept, the Japanese would still probably have this as a loan word. They treat foreign languages a *bit* like English does.
< 1274037076 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: this is mostly from the norwegian wikipedia article on Adel, which is marked as not very good though
< 1274037082 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It, too, has native words as a *minority* of the words in the language.
< 1274037083 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: True that :-)
< 1274037197 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah, food.
< 1274037218 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o
< 1274037235 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, hey, copumpkin.
< 1274037240 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohai
< 1274037241 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't realise you were in here.
< 1274037248 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :magic!
< 1274037266 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TERRIBLE IDEA: Continuous Life
< 1274037279 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shudder*
< 1274037330 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where the neighbours are are determined how small the cell number is, order of magnitude; so (0,0) would have neighbours (-1,0), (0,-1), (1,0), (0,1), (1,1), (-1,-1), etc.
< 1274037345 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But (0.1,0.1) would have (-0.2,0.1), (0.1,-0.2), etc
< 1274037352 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: are you dual to a pumpkin?
< 1274037354 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exercise: Proof this actually works out to anything consistent
< 1274037381 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah
< 1274037402 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good, good
< 1274038228 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh.
< 1274038246 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can send a signal at 2c/3 to anywhere in the universe.
< 1274038255 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pentadecathlon.com/lifeNews/2009/03/working_2c3_signal_elbow.html
< 1274038259 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've always wanted to do that!
< 1274038268 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd have preferred 3c/4
< 1274038297 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire: what does that mean?
< 1274038301 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's neat though
< 1274038318 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, is it because it's 2/3 instead of 1/2 of light?
< 1274038321 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you need a wire right?
< 1274038332 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It means that you can have a 2c/3 signal wire going to any point in the universe,
< 1274038337 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, i see
< 1274038339 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a cornering thing
< 1274038359 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!!
< 1274038362 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though the bend doubles the signal.
< 1274038364 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin, HERE?!
< 1274038370 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hides
< 1274038422 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't hide forever, mister peebles!
< 1274038430 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess not
< 1274038441 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We must find a c signal turn!
< 1274038467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire, on life wiki (polyomino page): "Charles Corderman discovered the switch engine by running an exhaustive computer search on all decominoes. The machine that discovered the decomino seed was unique, possessing an unusual architecture. "
< 1274038471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any idea what that is about?
< 1274038483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no citation or any further details
< 1274038490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as to what this special architecture would be
< 1274038493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why it is relevant
< 1274038504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google didn't turn up anything useful
< 1274038511 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It means that the search program can't be run on your own computer.
< 1274038519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire, so in what way was it special
< 1274038534 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's probably just some custom machine he built for the purpose.
< 1274038538 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: alien technology, duh
< 1274038553 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah probably just a custom searching machine
< 1274038554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire, FPGAs? Doesn't say anything about when... so no idea if it was FPGAs or something else
< 1274038562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, XD
< 1274038566 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably fpga
< 1274038575 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire: I think my hunch is that a c turn is impossible
< 1274038584 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why?
< 1274038588 0 :Sgeoshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww, you can only use one elbow
< 1274038597 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta, actually
< 1274038598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1274038599 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A switch engine (or Corder engine[1]) is a methuselah that was found by Charles Corderman in 1971. It is unstable by itself, but it can be used to make c/12 diagonal puffers and spaceships. "
< 1274038603 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeoshire: One is enough.
< 1274038605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1971, can't have been FPGA
< 1274038611 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire: because a turn basically has to deconstruct and then reconstruct a vehicle since life has no notion of "turning" as such
< 1274038613 0 :Sgeoshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about layout concerns?
< 1274038615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta, ^
< 1274038638 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire: My conjecture is that the complexity of the operations required to rebuild it rotated are sufficiently complex that they will always take longer than a straight line
< 1274038652 0 :Sgeoshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, couldn't you terminate the wire and retransmit before a second elbow
< 1274038653 0 :Sgeoshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1274038655 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire: However, it may be possible to build an elbow that, while running slower than c, can plug directly on to two lightspeed wires.
< 1274038659 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta: Why can't a signal induce another signal in a wire at 90 degrees?
< 1274038668 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire: It can, but it'll take more than one generation.
< 1274038684 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A 1-gen c turn is pretty silly.
< 1274038700 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even the 2c/3 turn takes more than 1 gen.
< 1274038704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is it an issue if there is some delay in that?
< 1274038727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as most of the time there is no delay I mean
< 1274038738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, no more than c*
< 1274038752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :build it with mostly straight segments and turning isn't an issue
< 1274038758 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because without a delay it's as simple as having a receiver and emitter right next to each other.
< 1274038765 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which, sure, is possible, but the point is something that's practical, unlike that.
< 1274038781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta, see ^ "<AnMaster> err, no more than c*"
< 1274038808 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that much is obvious
< 1274038840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta, so as long as you have mostly straight lines with just a few corners it will still be roughly the same speed
< 1274038848 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we already know this
< 1274038853 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we can theoretically make corner-turners now
< 1274038855 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just they're SLOW
< 1274038856 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really really slow
< 1274038860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta, how slow?
< 1274038860 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impractically slow for everything
< 1274038866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how do you do them?
< 1274038870 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: as slow as the receiving and sending ends of a telegraph put together
< 1274038874 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that's exactly what one is.
< 1274038881 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta: Suppose you have a signal with an exposed spark, which can induce a signal cleanly in a wire at 90 degrees.
< 1274038888 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's basically it.
< 1274038890 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :receive it, send it into a receiver that sends out the same signal, but on another wire, that's tilted
< 1274038893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta, so how long does the cable need to be for that to be useful?
< 1274038902 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very, for the LTS.
< 1274038903 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: too long
< 1274038907 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/LTS/LST/
< 1274038912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta, well depends on what you need to do with it
< 1274038914 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the LST is already hopelessly impractical.
< 1274038931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta, LST seems mostly useful for high speed, very long, links?
< 1274038946 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, which is nothing in practice.
< 1274038948 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very VERY long
< 1274038949 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only if you need to get across tens of thousands of cells.
< 1274038961 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire: Golly/Miscellaneous/lightspeed.rle -- this is just a fuse isn't it??
< 1274038962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire, yes and can't that happen?
< 1274038978 0 :Sgeoshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lightspeed is FUN!
< 1274038980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuse would work fine for a one-time signal no?
< 1274038983 0 :Sgeoshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who cares about practical?
< 1274038984 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember, each pulse is one bit, so the information is dribbling.
< 1274038985 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes something... Most things in Life move not that much slower than lightspeed.
< 1274038988 0 :Sgeoshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is any of GoL practical?
< 1274038992 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those guys' doppler shift must be fucking insane.
< 1274038993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeoshire, good point: no
< 1274039002 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeoshire: not a good question.
< 1274039014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta, sure it is :P
< 1274039018 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: A fuse is impractical, because you need to rebuild it at <c.
< 1274039035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire, but that only applies if you need to rebuild it
< 1274039039 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course you do
< 1274039045 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one-bit communication at a specified time?
< 1274039045 0 :Sgeoshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://conwaylife.com/wiki/index.php?title=Lightspeed_wire the bit about 2c/3 turns seems.. obsolete?
< 1274039046 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use a clock
< 1274039053 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, it'll always be the same time
< 1274039062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta, yes why not. A "stop, we found the prime we looked for" signal
< 1274039063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such
< 1274039066 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come to think of it, I've never built a clock in Life. Or, well, much at all.
< 1274039073 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll do that. This isn't an unsolved problem is it Hoovershire?
< 1274039083 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A clock?
< 1274039084 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: don't need lightspeed for that
< 1274039087 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire: Yes.
< 1274039090 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any glider gun is a clock.
< 1274039091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta, well you could want it
< 1274039093 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire: Basically a glider gun--yeah
< 1274039103 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire: Still.
< 1274039111 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire: There has to be some sort of simpler clock.
< 1274039114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta, you don't _need_ lightspeed for anything
< 1274039126 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*All* signal circuitry has a clock, in the form of the shuttle type it uses.
< 1274039145 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the smallest glider gun?
< 1274039151 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gosper, AFAIK.
< 1274039160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta, you seldom build clocks in non-CAs
< 1274039166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except VHDL and such I guess
< 1274039167 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FPGA
< 1274039170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you don't really
< 1274039172 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire: Still? Sheesh
< 1274039178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you use an external clock signal probably
< 1274039188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't build one in VHDL except for simulation
< 1274039197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta, ^
< 1274039199 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it's gosper
< 1274039201 0 :Sgeoshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, multiple elbows are useful for closing loops?
< 1274039206 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[In the Game of Life, for every p greater than or equal to 14 it is possible to construct a glider gun in which the gliders are emitted with period p.[1]]]
< 1274039208 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1274039212 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a LWSS clock that can emit faster?
< 1274039218 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta: Gosper makes sense, because the smallest would be easily-discovered.
< 1274039222 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or even something which can emit some sort of pulse at c?
< 1274039225 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It doesn't have to travel at c)
< 1274039230 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Just be emitted every c... or multiple of c)
< 1274039235 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like c/2 or something would be cool
< 1274039235 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it would hit itself.
< 1274039254 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't have to be gliders
< 1274039288 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and lightspeed.rle isn't a fuse.
< 1274039299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire, can't gun and bullets travel at same speed? If they are traveling in opposite directions at least
< 1274039306 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But anyway, clocks are unnecessary in Life.
< 1274039353 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because most technology is innately p30 or p46, so it's all synchronised.
< 1274039374 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire: I'd like a clock that goes faster than p14 though
< 1274039388 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even just something that emits some sort of pulse every 13 generations would be cool
< 1274039392 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't have to be a glider
< 1274039427 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, need to go for a minute.
< 1274039466 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta, define a clock? Oscillator which emit something?
< 1274039475 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes.
< 1274039478 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1274039493 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is acceptable if the oscillator needs a nearby wire to emit stuff onto.
< 1274039532 0 :Sgeoshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :p91080 guns
< 1274039536 0 :Sgeoshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.yucs.org/~gnivasch/life/lightspeed/index.html
< 1274039538 0 :Sgeoshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That.. why?
< 1274039553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that was the page with the bubbles
< 1274039561 0 :Sgeoshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is lightspeed transmission stuff that inefficient, that a p91090 gun is useful?
< 1274039588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta, ^
< 1274039590 0 :Sgeoshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that's just transmission stuff
< 1274039609 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, those bubbles.
< 1274039620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta, what else?
< 1274039648 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I was just saying.
< 1274039649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the lifewiki times out again
< 1274039653 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, so that's how you make stripe agar.
< 1274039664 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274039674 0 :Sgeoshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, the page actually talks about makign stripe agar?
< 1274039680 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has stripe agar.
< 1274039689 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.yucs.org/~gnivasch/life/lightspeed/index.html
< 1274039696 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the alive/dead alternating rows -- that's stripe agar.
< 1274039719 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta: Are you still on the p13 clock?
< 1274039738 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire: ? On?
< 1274039740 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I'd like one.
< 1274039759 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see... at the left and right ends of the white lines, just on the border; on the top and bottom, alive cells with two dead cells in-between, such that there are alive cells on both very edges at both top and bottom... and both the top and bottom non-bordered lines should be alive.
< 1274039764 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, I think I know how to make stripe agar now.
< 1274039770 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it still life like that?
< 1274039816 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta: You might want to look at Greyships and spacefillers.
< 1274039825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :greyships?
< 1274039830 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They work by creating agars, normally striped.
< 1274039842 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I know spacefillers.
< 1274039847 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway that isn't a clock :P
< 1274039848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeoshire, I can't find any page on the lifewiki about p91090
< 1274039853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeoshire, got a link?
< 1274039853 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: A spaceship containing an agar with 1/2 density.
< 1274039865 0 :Sgeoshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, search http://www.yucs.org/~gnivasch/life/lightspeed/index.html
< 1274039887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeoshire, "phrase not found", did you typo it?
< 1274039897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah indeed you did
< 1274039902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it says p91080 there
< 1274039925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I copy-pasted from <Sgeoshire> Is lightspeed transmission stuff that inefficient, that a p91090 gun is useful?
< 1274039939 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1274039945 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is.
< 1274039968 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire: I just made some stripe agar, but it isn't stable.
< 1274039979 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do I have to do something to it after I prepare the base material? Does it have to be a certain size? It looks right...
< 1274040001 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stripe agar needs regular bookends at the boundaries.
< 1274040008 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely that's obvious?
< 1274040018 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have that.
< 1274040034 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It needs to be 3n+1 long.
< 1274040044 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise the bookends don't work.
< 1274040048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire, got a link to an example grayship? the life wiki basically have a stub
< 1274040075 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire: http://sprunge.us/UVeS
< 1274040077 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What did I do wrong?
< 1274040104 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Cambrain-Explosion.rle has some greyships at the top.
< 1274040131 0 :calamari!~calamari@ip70-162-184-104.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274040143 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_4LYV_SFknMc/S9H7jdd_tQI/AAAAAAAAAQk/dKoK6biWn9Y/s1600/KFC-KRISPY-KREME-LUTHER-DOUBLE-DOWN-DOUGHNUT-BUN-D.jpg
< 1274040166 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274040169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire, which directory is it in?
< 1274040180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't in spaceships?
< 1274040193 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta: The bookends on the sides need to be on every other line.
< 1274040201 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Black line, that is.
< 1274040211 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Miscellaneous.
< 1274040213 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are on every other line.
< 1274040216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire, ah
< 1274040221 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No?
< 1274040232 0 :Sgeoshire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, exactly, makes it so inefficient?
< 1274040251 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeoshire: the only signals that like travelling along wire at light-speed are chaotic and hard to both produce and detect
< 1274040259 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to produce you need to like collide gliders together at precise timings
< 1274040261 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire, which site is the front?
< 1274040262 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the wire needs to repair
< 1274040270 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and detecting them at the end requires very complicated, large and controlled machinery
< 1274040280 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://b3s23life.blogspot.com/
< 1274040281 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The one pointing up.
< 1274040298 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire, are that entire group greyships or?
< 1274040311 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_TO9A8O1Azeg/RnZs8QADCGI/AAAAAAAAAIM/11c9lJax9Z0/s1600-h/Pi-tracks-DRH-17Feb1997.GIF CREEY FACE CIRCUITS
< 1274040316 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*CREEPY
< 1274040343 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The top cluster.
< 1274040352 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything with a striped agar in it.
< 1274040406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1274040447 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: There's a pattern that stretches a striped agar horizontally at -123, 22
< 1274040546 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Caterpillar spaceship is amazing.
< 1274040552 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It carries a whole galaxy of life organisms.
< 1274040571 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's... not even /that/ slow
< 1274040575 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/./
< 1274040649 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There were the beginnings of a (13,1) spaceship on the caterpillar page.
< 1274040694 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't understand the (a,b) notation.
< 1274040721 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It moves 13 cells left for every 1 it moves up.
< 1274040728 0 :Sgeoshire!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274040734 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :alise
< 1274040738 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha!
< 1274040739 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, there?
< 1274040745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess not
< 1274040746 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Hoovershire
< 1274040755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone know if fizzie is away for the weekend or something?
< 1274040869 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/whois says he's been idle for almost 24 hours, so maybe he's away for today.
< 1274040932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1274040949 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: *sobs*
< 1274040993 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would that be first spaceship tha does not move in one of 8 main directions? Or has some such ship aleady been built?
< 1274040999 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1274041020 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be the first.
< 1274041032 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jan Vitek: Flash is to computing, what porn is to cinema?
< 1274041032 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor Richards: ... YES. I agree with that statement 115%.
< 1274041053 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why hello, Richardsshire.
< 1274041060 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, everything interesting in Life is found with searches these days.
< 1274041061 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire: So what's wrong with my agar?
< 1274041070 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why?
< 1274041075 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does it do?
< 1274041087 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What?
< 1274041111 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does it do wrong?
< 1274041112 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Jan Vitek's Facebook photo: http://www.facebook.com/profile/pic.php?oid=AAAAAwAgACAAAAAJOxKn1xL6DjDHhndQyKszQjZLwByUy-T-E0I5xvwVi4D_tpmGTj9TFtyFVsNHHm5cWyKXCFE9IzkwvJZABz70l0zVm61rAYnYoZxN3j_FXfjxVH0OgTyfYPdvehsrEVuG&size=normal
< 1274041119 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARE YOU SURE YOU WANT TO AGREE WITH THIS MAN
< 1274041121 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire: It's the .rle I gave you
< 1274041125 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It self-destructs
< 1274041125 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why?
< 1274041131 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/UVeS
< 1274041134 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta: He's my advisor :P
< 1274041137 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm not away, I'm just busy.)
< 1274041149 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I knew you'd like that
< 1274041160 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta: That's Jan Vitekshire, sir.
< 1274041167 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhqshire: Whoops
< 1274041169 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like a yummy breakfast sandwich
< 1274041178 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Breakfast sandwich"
< 1274041178 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta: I told you: the end bookends need to be on alternate blank rows.
< 1274041180 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sobs more*
< 1274041182 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And thats Worcestershire to you!
< 1274041186 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire: So not every one?
< 1274041189 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: *that's
< 1274041190 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :GregorRichardsvi
< 1274041195 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1274041195 0 :GregorRichardsvi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well foo
< 1274041199 0 :GregorRichardsvi!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Richardsville
< 1274041202 0 :Richardsville!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT'S RIGHT
< 1274041210 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Josiah "Pick Headquarters" Worcestershire, amirite
< 1274041217 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RichardsSHIRE, you uncouth nothing.
< 1274041222 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We are all SHIRES here.
< 1274041236 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivkunta: It needs another row.
< 1274041241 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta: Lawls
< 1274041251 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire: Okay.
< 1274041266 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire: Er, that can't work.
< 1274041270 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the end bits need to attach to an on row.
< 1274041310 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/pqjVb0mg
< 1274041315 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274041318 0 :Richardsville!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Richardsgrafstvo
< 1274041320 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a stable one.
< 1274041343 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What did you change?
< 1274041346 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't paste RLE...
< 1274041363 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.wovencroft.com/Images/tm51610a.gif how helpful to have the time and date disappear and reappear like that
< 1274041368 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :amirite would be a badass mineral
< 1274041400 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta: shirely you can't be serious
< 1274041414 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Amirite XD
< 1274041423 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire: DOTH TELLETH ME
< 1274041436 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I added another on row and alternated!
< 1274041444 0 :Richardsgrafstvo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire: Hot.
< 1274041445 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look at the lightspeed bubbles!
< 1274041461 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But adding another row cannot possibly work!
< 1274041482 0 :Richardsgrafstvo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Worst - animated - gif - ever
< 1274041534 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire: If you add another row
< 1274041539 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire: then the end row is not on
< 1274041543 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means you can't add the stabilisers
< 1274041545 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another on row.
< 1274041556 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... What, two on rows in a row?
< 1274041574 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would like to inform you that that cannot possibly work.
< 1274041621 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://psychoticdeath.com/life.htm
< 1274041622 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PSYCHOTIC DEATH
< 1274041623 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JOHN CONWAY'S GAME OF LIFE!
< 1274041658 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun. The mayor posts an rtf, and everyone has problems
< 1274041729 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire: So I need there to be off rows before the final on row that do not haev a pixel, right?
< 1274041730 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*have
< 1274041746 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't work, either.
< 1274041763 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look at the lightspeed bubbles!
< 1274041764 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire: I don't just want to use your fixed version because I want to figure out what the heck I did wrong!
< 1274041771 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I can't!
< 1274041812 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Hoovershire> http://pastebin.com/pqjVb0mg
< 1274041816 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is exactly what i pasted....
< 1274041850 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you paste the wrong thing
< 1274041864 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, you see how the row ends have dead cells with 3 live neighbours?
< 1274041906 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1274041910 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I need to remove every other one?
< 1274041932 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1274041944 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the last row can't have a bookend on it.
< 1274041990 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^_^ it works now
< 1274041991 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274042012 0 :Hoovershire!~chatzilla@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274042050 0 :chickenzilla!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1274042053 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note to self; make a program to generate stripe agar.
< 1274042061 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire: now i just need to figure out how to transmit signals :)
< 1274042094 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The simplest signal for a stripe agar is made as follows:
< 1274042096 0 :Richardsgrafstvo!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Gregor
< 1274042105 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Delete 4 cells from a row.
< 1274042130 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that destroys the agar.
< 1274042150 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At one end of the empty bit, put a cell one up from the stripe
< 1274042172 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :done
< 1274042176 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the left or right end
< 1274042178 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather
< 1274042179 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the short or long end
< 1274042179 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Add a cell one down from the stripe at the next cell.
< 1274042201 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The cells up and down are at the back of the blip.
< 1274042221 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :above an on cell
< 1274042223 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or above an off cel
< 1274042225 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*cell
< 1274042232 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so are we talking
< 1274042234 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#
< 1274042236 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Above an off cell
< 1274042237 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#...............
< 1274042238 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait.
< 1274042238 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.#
< 1274042244 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay
< 1274042244 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a c
< 1274042248 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the middle of the c has blanks after it
< 1274042276 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  #
< 1274042278 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#       #
< 1274042279 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    #
< 1274042287 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like that.
< 1274042302 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a monospaced font, yeah
< 1274042303 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is someone here using Win98
< 1274042312 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah?
< 1274042317 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or not
< 1274042322 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire:
< 1274042325 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.o.....
< 1274042326 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o....o
< 1274042327 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
< 1274042328 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..o...
< 1274042331 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's it.
< 1274042372 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works; but when it reaches the end it destroys the agar.
< 1274042375 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a way to prevent that?
< 1274042416 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At this big, important event: 34 people
< 1274042421 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :43 people online total
< 1274042425 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Used to be hundreds
< 1274042427 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc
< 1274042489 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274042524 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: On this channel?
< 1274042545 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire, no
< 1274042548 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, on some shitty old 3D VR game he likes
< 1274042548 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Cybertown
< 1274042552 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pick any; he likes it
< 1274042553 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At this "Town Hall" meeting
< 1274042567 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta, um, are you sure you're not alise in dis.. you're alise, aren't you?
< 1274042580 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No shit.
< 1274042585 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This name means "shire" in Finnish :P
< 1274042597 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta: Yes, the blip is unstable at beginning and end.
< 1274042612 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire: There's no machine you can surgically attach to the end of the agar to keep it stable?
< 1274042619 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1274042620 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't like it enough to pay $5/month
< 1274042622 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that I know of.
< 1274042659 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some areas of the city have been "fixed". DOn't know what could have possibly been broken, other than the fact that it's dying
< 1274042660 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt we'll be able to find one without a search program.
< 1274042664 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire: So agar is not that useful, unless we can make stable, stationary machines that work inside agar.
< 1274042673 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Then agar would essentially become a mini-CA in itself.)
< 1274042680 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta: Why not?
< 1274042684 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: *Don't
< 1274042691 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire: Because you can't detect any signals, it's just chaos
< 1274042718 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about <thing that the new parent company has been promising for years>? "Dead"
< 1274042733 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there might be a way of fixing it.
< 1274042762 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously, I will say that I _HATE_ IVN
< 1274042772 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The company that owns Cybertown)
< 1274042838 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The WP entry is fun.
< 1274042845 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NPOV? Who needs it?
< 1274042888 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274042919 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1274042944 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The most deadly thing to Cybertown was the newly added cost, and the fact that non-payers can do very, very little
< 1274042946 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They can barely chat
< 1274042998 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two places
< 1274043013 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is XOR universal?
< 1274043035 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1274043056 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"universal"?
< 1274043064 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire: i don't think
< 1274043067 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: doijfsdof thingy
< 1274043076 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well (x XOR true) is !x
< 1274043079 0 :marchdown!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: marchdown
< 1274043111 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire: XOR only gives you linear functions
< 1274043113 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can't construct AND or OR AFAIK.
< 1274043120 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(mod 2)
< 1274043158 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you also need a 1 or EQV to get all of them
< 1274043162 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1274043230 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post's_lattice is all about what sets of boolean functions generate which others
< 1274043267 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a 1 is acceptable
< 1274043284 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XOR gives AP_0, with 1 too you get A
< 1274043290 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's A
< 1274043334 0 :marchdown!~marchdown@ppp79-139-171-114.pppoe.spdop.ru JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274043336 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all affine boolean functions, i.e. f(x1,...,xn) x_(i_1) + ... + x_(i_k) + C
< 1274043370 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P_0 are the 0-preserving ones, AP_0 is their intersection
< 1274043414 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(+ == XOR)
< 1274043427 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er
< 1274043445 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*f(x1,...,xn) = ...
< 1274043471 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274043491 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.integratedvirtualnetworks.com/index1.php?is_ct=1 <<===CYBERTOWN KILLERS
< 1274043504 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what's "everything"
< 1274043507 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1274043516 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what did they do?
< 1274043547 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forced Cybertown to move to a subscription system
< 1274043549 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta: top symbol, apparently
< 1274043555 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a lattice after all
< 1274043565 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you denote it textwise
< 1274043568 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: oh shut up
< 1274043590 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.yucs.org/~gnivasch/life/lightspeed/index.html
< 1274043592 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta: it's the top symbol, i said, it requires unicode
< 1274043600 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah that
< 1274043600 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta: Read it.
< 1274043602 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that article's notation
< 1274043602 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just call it T
< 1274043605 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire: i have.
< 1274043611 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK.
< 1274043625 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kreivikunta: T is used for something else, although only with indexes
< 1274043628 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've asked on the forum what the state of the art is, as that page is from 2008.
< 1274043638 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Watch this space.
< 1274043646 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: -|-
< 1274043654 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoovershire: link to the forum? think I've seen it before
< 1274043658 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, is there a game of life irc channel?
< 1274043680 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.conwaylife.com/forums/index.php
< 1274043684 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that I know of.
< 1274043689 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#b3s23, then.
< 1274043691 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might as well.
< 1274043715 0 :kreivikunta!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :alise
< 1274043716 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway there are 5 maximal subclasses of the top, M, A, P0, P1 and D.  to generate everything you need to have a function outside each of them.  note that one function can be outside several, e.g. NAND obviously isn't in any of them
< 1274043749 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Howsabout we put "esoteric programming languages" SOMEWHERE in the topic? | Esperanto is still bannable! | Je peux utiliser une langue Ă©trangĂ¨re aussi. | xn--v8jad0f7b6z4eoa6v0hk534a7hlwhnnl8s. | Jag Ă¤lskar Unicode i mina topicar.  | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D
< 1274043778 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :For Game of Life discussion go to #b2s23  | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D
< 1274043808 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274043813 0 :impomatic!~chatzilla@87.113.249.101 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274043817 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has anyone played with one of these? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SheevaPlug
< 1274043824 0 :Hoovershire!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Phantom_Hoover
< 1274043831 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know people who have
< 1274043870 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1274043933 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :M are monotonic functions.  AND, OR, 0 and 1 generate all of them
< 1274044111 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: #b3s23!
< 1274044114 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: #b3s23!
< 1274044121 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: #b3s23!
< 1274044126 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1274044129 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: #b3s23!
< 1274044134 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: #b3s23!
< 1274044137 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could have done that in one message! :P
< 1274044172 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you know which class each of your basic functions generate, that hasse diagram in the article tells you everything else about what it generates
< 1274044182 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We invite you to log in and learn more about Silhouette and the Nexos."
< 1274044205 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I DID NOT SAY JOINING WAS OPTIONAL
< 1274044208 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274044214 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: #b3s23!
< 1274044235 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND is /\P, OR is \/P, NOT is UD and XOR is AP_0
< 1274044274 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1274044296 0 :ParaSait!~chatzilla@d5153C34A.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274044304 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about op(a,b,c,d,e,f,...) := (a /\ c /\ e /\ ...) something (b \/ d \/ f \/ ...)
< 1274044309 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(variadic)
< 1274044310 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that table to the left of the diagram tells you a set of generators for each class
< 1274044313 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for different values of something
< 1274044319 0 :ParaSait!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi people
< 1274044323 0 :ParaSait!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a little question
< 1274044331 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: er what
< 1274044337 0 :ParaSait!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*can somebody explain me FukYorBrane? :P*
< 1274044348 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ParaSait: no but Gregor can
< 1274044360 0 :ParaSait!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k
< 1274044379 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: i think that depends a lot on "something"
< 1274044379 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what do you mean er what
< 1274044394 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :op(a,b,c,d,e,f,...) := (a /\ c /\ e /\ ...) xor (b \/ d \/ f \/ ...)
< 1274044401 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1274044414 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well op(a,b) is XOR itself
< 1274044449 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure I can X-D
< 1274044455 0 :ParaSait!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1274044466 0 :ParaSait!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just had a few questions bout it
< 1274044472 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ParaSait: It's sort of like Brainfuck, except your "tape" is the other player's code, so you want to ... y'know ... break it.
< 1274044476 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: op(a,a) is 0, then you get op(a,0,c) = a /\ c and op (0,b,0,d) = b \/ d
< 1274044485 0 :ParaSait!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And how that @ work?
< 1274044529 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ParaSait: It switches your "write head" from one program to the other.
< 1274044530 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm
< 1274044532 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: can you get not
< 1274044540 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :op(a,1) would do it
< 1274044541 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I, err, don't recall how it decides where to land you in the other program >_>
< 1274044545 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can we get 1?
< 1274044552 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have 0, and, or, xor...
< 1274044558 0 :ParaSait!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. That's what I was wondering too :P
< 1274044562 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: same location?
< 1274044565 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: you get P_0.  it does not contain not.
< 1274044578 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: you need a 1 to get not from xor
< 1274044581 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Could be, mabye modulo program size or something? I'd have to look at the code to recall.
< 1274044623 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: (P_0 has \/ and + listed as generators)
< 1274044652 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides that he may pay $5 every few months
< 1274044654 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(+ == XOR again)
< 1274044663 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274044683 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :op(a,b,c,d,e,f,...) := (a xor c xor e xor ...) and (b xand d xand f xand ...)
< 1274044683 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: basically P_0 is every function which maps all 0's to 0
< 1274044685 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, xand...
< 1274044690 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does xand even make any sense
< 1274044696 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT MAKES NO SENSE.
< 1274044700 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a xor b = (a or b) and not (a and b)
< 1274044703 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a xand b = (a and b) and not (a and b)
< 1274044704 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1274044704 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: do you mean <-> ?
< 1274044711 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I
< 1274044718 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah let's go with that
< 1274044719 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1274044720 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to go now.
< 1274044723 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :op(a,b,c,d,e,f,...) := (a xor c xor e xor ...) and (b eqv d eqv f eqv ...)
< 1274044737 0 :ParaSait!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well I could do some research in the source of that fyb implementation. But I can't actually run that program cause for some reason it crashes asa I exec it with those 2 args
< 1274044743 0 :ParaSait!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'm using it wrong
< 1274044754 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweet!
< 1274044754 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well op(a,b) = a and b
< 1274044806 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ParaSait: AFAIK it's just ./fukyorbrane <program> <program
< 1274044807 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>
< 1274044808 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :op(a,a) = a and a, that doesn't help much
< 1274044814 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much as in at all
< 1274044828 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :op(a,a,a,a) = (a xor a) and (a <-> a) = 0
< 1274044834 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ParaSait: And E_WORKSFORME. What's your platform?
< 1274044842 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :op(a,b,b,c) := (a xor b) and (b = c)
< 1274044856 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := (a or b) and not (a and b) and (b = c)
< 1274044860 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := ???
< 1274044913 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :op(a,b,c,c) := (a xor c) and (b = c)
< 1274044935 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :op(a,0,c,0) = (a xor c) and 1 = a xor c
< 1274044947 0 :ParaSait!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Vista. Compiled with codeblocks
< 1274044954 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have and, xor and 0
< 1274044983 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can we get 1?
< 1274045010 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think so
< 1274045033 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we cannot ensure the xor part is 1
< 1274045049 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hasn't it been proven that nand and nor are the only universal ones
< 1274045053 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it has been.
< 1274045072 0 :marchdown!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: marchdown
< 1274045074 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only for binary operators, i think
< 1274045098 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this is not even a single function really
< 1274045174 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1274045217 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think this is also P_0, we cannot get anything more
< 1274045300 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm or wait and is just /\P
< 1274045384 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reappears.
< 1274045388 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ParaSait: laaaaaaaaaaaawlz
< 1274045396 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ParaSait: Not guaranteed to work on shitty OSes :P
< 1274045398 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274045402 0 :ParaSait!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD
< 1274045405 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :op(a,b,c) := (a nor c) xor b
< 1274045407 0 :ParaSait!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should've known :D
< 1274045419 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ParaSait: That being said, it really still ought to >_>
< 1274045427 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := (not (a or b)) xor b
< 1274045434 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have more details than "it crashed" as per why it crashed?
< 1274045458 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := ([not (a or b)] or b) and not ([not (a or b)] and b)
< 1274045464 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :op(a,a,a) = (not a) xor a = 1
< 1274045482 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1274045483 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's nor
< 1274045487 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thx wolfram alpha
< 1274045497 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what
< 1274045498 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dropped c
< 1274045499 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1274045502 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := (not (a or c)) xor b
< 1274045506 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :op(a,1,c) = a or c
< 1274045509 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := ([not (a or c)] or b) and not ([not (a or c)] and b)
< 1274045557 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a nor c) xor b seems to be the simplest way to phrase it.
< 1274045571 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you can't get 0 without one 0 already
< 1274045574 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(proven by alpha)
< 1274045591 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simple enough.  we get 1, or
< 1274045616 0 :FredrIQ!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: - nbs-irc 2.39 - www.nbs-irc.net -
< 1274045629 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :op(a,b,c) := (a xor b) nor (a xor c)
< 1274045643 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :op(a,a,a) := (a xor a) nor (a xor a) = 0 nor 0 = not (0 or 0) = 1
< 1274045644 0 :ParaSait!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well I run it with the line: fukyorbrane.exe prog1.fyb prog2.fyb, then I get a console window and immediately a stopped working message
< 1274045651 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er is this still the same one?
< 1274045652 0 :ParaSait!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not much more infos than that
< 1274045656 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, new one
< 1274045663 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ParaSait: I don't know what a "stopped working message" is ...
< 1274045671 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: i wasn't quite finished
< 1274045675 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay
< 1274045677 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :carry on
< 1274045684 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i proved it isn't complete!
< 1274045686 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/
< 1274045724 0 :ParaSait!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well you know. Windows detects a runtime error and then gives a little window that says it's looking for a solution and eventually wants to make an error report, etc etc
< 1274045727 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sure, but 1 and or only give us VP_1 which has the whole T tower above it
< 1274045737 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ParaSait: Ah ... well that's quite useless.
< 1274045743 0 :ParaSait!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1274045746 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it could be any of those
< 1274045751 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So anywho, EgoBot can run FYB :P
< 1274045754 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help fyb
< 1274045754 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, I have no help for fyb!
< 1274045759 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot: WELL SCREW YOU THEN
< 1274045763 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well the right T tower)
< 1274045778 0 :ParaSait!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help fukyorbrane
< 1274045779 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, I have no help for fukyorbrane!
< 1274045781 0 :ParaSait!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1274045786 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb
< 1274045809 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ParaSait: It has a full-on FYB hill, but I apparently was too stupid to put any of that in !help :P
< 1274045817 0 :ParaSait!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1274045820 0 :ParaSait!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... how to use it?
< 1274045826 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> op(a,b,c) := (a nor c) xor b
< 1274045865 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!fyb badmangler +!>
< 1274045872 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for Gregor_badmangler: 0.0
< 1274045876 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1274045880 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now where does it put the hill ...
< 1274045890 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/eso/fyb/in_egobot/
< 1274045892 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There we go
< 1274045938 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274045941 0 :copumpkin!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1274045952 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274045963 0 :ParaSait!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm well
< 1274045973 0 :ParaSait!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The bot might be able to run fyb, but I still don't get it xD
< 1274045986 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you can read the code even if you can't make it work on Windoze :P
< 1274045999 0 :ParaSait!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yea
< 1274046218 0 :marchdown!~marchdown@ppp79-139-171-114.pppoe.spdop.ru JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274046230 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION lurves using the stack pointer as a general purpose register
< 1274046305 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you get the stack back?
< 1274046318 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't.
< 1274046546 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The stack is for the weak.
< 1274046681 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: ok i've confirmed that is not in T_1^2 and now my head hurts :D
< 1274046685 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help
< 1274046687 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
< 1274046691 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means it must be P_1
< 1274046698 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274046700 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You run HackEgo, right?
< 1274046716 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yuh
< 1274046721 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274046755 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can we run it on #b3s23 with bgolly as one of the programs?
< 1274046773 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-243-203-60.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274046793 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can put whatever programs you want to on it.
< 1274046800 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So long as you do it yourself :P
< 1274046809 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As per putting it on another channel, sure.
< 1274047037 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:33  alise> op(a,b,c) := (a xor b) nor (a xor c)
< 1274047037 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:33  alise> op(a,a,a) := (a xor a) nor (a xor a) = 0 nor 0 = not (0 or 0) = 1
< 1274047043 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274047043 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274047046 0 :EgoBot!~EgoBot@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274047046 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274047052 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back
< 1274047100 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: on to the next one you said
< 1274047120 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think you can get 0 in it
< 1274047135 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know we could just write a computer program to figure out all this
< 1274047141 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean it is just a truth table...
< 1274047160 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically to check for containment in P_0 and P_1 all you need to do is apply the function to all 1's and all 0's respectively
< 1274047188 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er wait
< 1274047193 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1274047199 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reverse that
< 1274047219 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yeah, exactly
< 1274047222 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274047239 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@74.13.125.162 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274047249 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :M, D and A aren't too hard to check either
< 1274047271 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah a program could check if everything is generated
< 1274047283 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, sounds fun, /me writes it
< 1274047286 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not with your freaky post names though
< 1274047290 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with durned good easy names
< 1274047341 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i learned this stuff from post's original book, he used another completely different notation
< 1274047385 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this notation is actually an improvement :D
< 1274047439 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(much less unexplained indexes, most combinations are written with intersection/concatenation instead)
< 1274047527 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(p == q) == ~((p\/q) /\ ~(p /\ q))
< 1274047527 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty clearly possible to write a program to check exactly which class is generated, too
< 1274047534 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~(~p /\ ~q) = p \/ q
< 1274047539 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~(p /\ ~q) = ~p \/ q
< 1274047552 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(p == q) == ~(p \/ q) \/ (p /\ q)
< 1274047556 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(p == q) == (p nor q) \/ (p /\ q)
< 1274047575 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, i guess class = clone in the modern notation
< 1274047722 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gets bored of writing the program :P
< 1274047767 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, "If you're still not convinced, then construct such a pattern for yourself. You'll find that it either functions below lightspeed, explodes, or otherwise detects the 'ghost' LWSSes as being actual ones, and emits a spaceship regardless of whether a spaceship actually entered the device."
< 1274048046 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100423140709]
< 1274048753 0 :ParaSait!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]
< 1274048862 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/sml SML FUCK YEAH
< 1274049015 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION might get a 30 day renewal of Cybertown access
< 1274049061 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.list4everything.com/list-of-idioms-to-use-at-workplace.html
< 1274049065 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LIST OF IDIOMS TO USE AT WORKPLACE
< 1274049096 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.list4everything.com/sentences-that-are-used-repeatedly-by-professionals.html
< 1274049100 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SENTENCES THAT ARE USED REPEATEDLY BY PROFESSIONALS
< 1274049112 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no comment.
< 1274049133 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, that's not a sentence.
< 1274049182 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's missing mathematicians
< 1274049191 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps "I conjecture that ..."
< 1274049210 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then it is presumably correct, modulo mathematicians.
< 1274049226 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is in CyberTown!
< 1274049276 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We leave it as an exercise for the reader..."
< 1274049290 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all mathematicians love that one.  trust me.
< 1274049336 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1274049401 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274049519 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: is the proof left as an exer-
< 1274049600 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as much as possible of it, anyhow
< 1274049657 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my advisor sometimes referred to "proofs by general nonsense", although i'm not sure that term is very popular
< 1274049684 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this applied especially to heavy use of category theory :)
< 1274049702 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/proofs/proof/
< 1274049724 0 :marchdown!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: marchdown
< 1274049744 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: category theory = general abstract nonsense
< 1274049778 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1274049795 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm there are actually google hits to apparently real papers using the term
< 1274049850 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's a very common term
< 1274049858 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :old too (1940s says wp)
< 1274049862 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love category theory
< 1274049868 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hawt
< 1274049872 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's... everything
< 1274049905 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/myl/AbstractNonsense1.png
< 1274049912 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/myl/AbstractNonsense2.png
< 1274049915 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ^ relevant
< 1274050015 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my first published paper had some nice abstract nonsense in it, i recall
< 1274050027 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not using that term though)
< 1274050061 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"by the naturality of the pimsner-voiculescu exact sequence" iirc
< 1274050084 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one day I will undersatnd your papers
< 1274050084 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ONE DAY
< 1274050119 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we didn't actually find a reference that it _was_ natural, although i did check that it was, and we didn't bother to elaborate on that... :)
< 1274050221 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i guess we left the proof as an exercise for any reader smart enough to notice it was needed)
< 1274050305 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides that Cybertown "freemail" is poorly named
< 1274050372 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: mathematicians basically hate each other don't they
< 1274050380 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I DO have a proof for this, but I'll let you do it instead..."
< 1274050426 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of them yes.
< 1274050457 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.9/20100315083431]
< 1274050476 0 :marchdown!~marchdown@ppp79-139-171-114.pppoe.spdop.ru JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274050514 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in our case it wasn't so much that we wanted them to do it as that it was obvious it _should_ be true and would require a lot of work to write down that was really unrelated to the rest of the paper
< 1274050538 0 :tombom__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1274051289 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I WANT IT TO BE TRUE
< 1274052007 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has code that segfaults when not run under valgrind
< 1274052123 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: consider 0 and a -> b = (not a) or b
< 1274052146 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 is not in P_1 or D, while -> is not in P_0, M, A or D.
< 1274052155 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus together they generate everything.
< 1274052195 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1274052198 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 = 0 -> 0
< 1274052202 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!x = x -> 0
< 1274052210 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 also = 0 -> x
< 1274052222 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm how do you do and without quantifiers...
< 1274052247 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a or b = !a -> b
< 1274052258 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION 's brain explodes
< 1274052259 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a and b = !(!a or !b)
< 1274052269 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes sense, but ugh
< 1274052286 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we _are_ talking boolean logic here
< 1274052372 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah :P
< 1274052379 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just so used to the constructive-function meaning of ->
< 1274052386 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the ~a \/ b one freaks me out sometimes
< 1274052394 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought so
< 1274052468 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Reboot
< 1274052609 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274052651 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274052768 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1274052875 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The relative simplicity of Post's lattice is in stark contrast to the lattice of clones on a three-element (or larger) set, which has the cardinality of the continuum, and a complicated inner structure."
< 1274052939 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if even determining whether a set of 3-valued functions generate _everything_ is hard
< 1274053128 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably
< 1274053173 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274053259 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1274053477 0 :ballard45!~PircBot@cpe-74-71-95-160.twcny.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274053601 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm, Brainfuck-to-assembly compiler...
< 1274053613 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assembly-to-Brainfuck compiler
< 1274053796 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274053851 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1274054104 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does a p2 spaceship travelling at c make sense??
< 1274054184 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-standard analysis is so cool
< 1274054191 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it can't unless it has some sort of agar or wire...
< 1274054195 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, simple
< 1274054197 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two parts
< 1274054204 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it moves right all the time
< 1274054206 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's
< 1274054210 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a...
< 1274054212 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.b..
< 1274054214 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..a.
< 1274054216 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...b
< 1274054234 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's two c-travelling spaceships that change into each other every generation
< 1274054284 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://fano.ics.uci.edu/ca/rules/b0236s2345/g1.html
< 1274054332 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would be cool is different areas of space following different rules
< 1274054361 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O at B0
< 1274054508 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://fano.ics.uci.edu/ca/rules/b0236s2345/
< 1274054509 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all move at c
< 1274054529 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :32 rules, pretty good
< 1274054648 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "latest news" on the wiki is from 2009
< 1274054882 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the news are late
< 1274055603 0 :ws!wswieb@akson.sgh.waw.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274055632 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cachegrind is pretty amazing at making code run slow.
< 1274055754 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274055757 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully it grinds exceedingly small
< 1274056057 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welp, that confirms my suspicions. This sucker runs entirely out of the cache.
< 1274056069 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Including the instruction cache.
< 1274056099 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: null
< 1274056158 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thought that would be a good thing...
< 1274056213 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Tis.
< 1274056218 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just curious.
< 1274056230 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cachegrind is *not* a thing you run to check for bugs. ;)
< 1274056241 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1274056282 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It checks for cache hits and misses, or branch prediction misses.
< 1274056334 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And does so by compiling machine code to an intermediate code, adding profiling code, and then JITing.
< 1274056340 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Valgrind is freaking crazy.
< 1274056441 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :valgrind is awesome :)
< 1274056504 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's crazy awesome.
< 1274057002 0 :FreeNodeHelpBot!~PircBot@cpe-74-71-95-160.twcny.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274057250 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274057314 0 :FreeNodeHelpBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274057384 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1274057463 0 :ballard45!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274057547 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is so tempted to take his phone off the cable
< 1274057604 0 :ws!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ...
< 1274058128 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274058146 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274058185 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :==20208== More than 10000000 total errors detected.  I'm not reporting any more.
< 1274058190 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From valgrind.
< 1274058503 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, is this your insane C thing?
< 1274058558 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Insane *assembly* thing.
< 1274058901 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a double that im using as an arg in a string (string.arg(double)), is there a way to have it omit the decimal if its just .000000?
< 1274058935 0 :ballard14!~PircBot@cpe-74-71-95-160.twcny.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274058935 0 :ballard14!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi! :)
< 1274058949 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, wrong channel :P
< 1274058953 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi
< 1274058969 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi
< 1274059049 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274059180 0 :ballard15!~PircBot@cpe-74-71-95-160.twcny.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274059183 0 :ballard15!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi! :)
< 1274059209 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bottastic?
< 1274059302 0 :ballard15!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274059325 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1274059333 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bottastrophic more like
< 1274059431 0 :ballard14!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274059439 0 :ballard15!~PircBot@cpe-74-71-95-160.twcny.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274059442 0 :ballard15!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi! :)
< 1274059600 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[18:44]  * ballard45 (~PircBot@cpe-74-71-95-160.twcny.res.rr.com) has joined #esoteric
< 1274059601 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274059606 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know, how to read/write a Java stream on a network socket, without Java?
< 1274059967 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night
< 1274060193 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274060871 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274060985 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone ever played with the Gammaplex interpreter?
< 1274061220 0 :cheater2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello friends
< 1274061671 0 :ballard15!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded
< 1274062082 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is alise still here?
< 1274062084 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok
< 1274062085 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes
< 1274062408 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[About Pure Glider Generators] "There was some interest in these early on, but they are no longer considered important. Here's a neat example: "
< 1274062414 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's "important"?
< 1274062533 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Useful
< 1274062540 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess
< 1274062545 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no reason to use the pond over the beehive for 1-2-3-4's induction coil, is there?
< 1274062554 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's "useful" in GoL?
< 1274062581 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Useful for achieving things as parts of other things
< 1274062584 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*as a part of
< 1274062592 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Proof of c/4 maximum diagonal limit: http://www.conwaylife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=79#p248
< 1274062606 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, I think it's a c/2 proof as well...
< 1274062611 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Saw that, was going to look at it again
< 1274062620 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, uses c/4 proof as part of c/2 proof
< 1274062654 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice proof
< 1274062681 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That.. seems to assume things about the shape of the spaceship
< 1274062703 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, maybe not
< 1274062887 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://fano.ics.uci.edu/ca/rules/b3s24/g5.html c/3 diagonal spaceship
< 1274062919 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If you're still not convinced, then construct such a pattern for yourself."
< 1274062933 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't even need to do that. Just decide "What is a spaceship in this location"
< 1274062949 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You won't get consistently correct results faster than c
< 1274062972 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, if you're looking sooner than the information can propagate at c
< 1274063020 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://fano.ics.uci.edu/ca/rules/b3457s4568/g1.html This thing moves one cell downwards every 5648 generations in B3457/S4568.
< 1274063020 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Discuss.
< 1274063089 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It will take forever for it to bring its passengers to the far side of the torus!
< 1274063103 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, not bad: in our world, it would be moving at 53,079 m/s.
< 1274063151 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it's not possible to say what a cell, or what a generation, converted to our measurements would be
< 1274063157 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, maybe a cell == plank's length
< 1274063173 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*planck?
< 1274063200 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: CAs have discrete space and time so you cannot really compare them to fuzziness like planck length :)
< 1274063219 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: cell != planck length
< 1274063224 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because then speed of light would be one planck length / s
< 1274063256 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're assuming that 1 generation = 1 second
< 1274063267 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming s == second
< 1274063268 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1274063271 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c = 1 cell / gen
< 1274063286 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c in our world = 299 792 458 m / s
< 1274063294 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose you can tweak things to make tha twork
< 1274063319 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/299792458 seconds = ~3.33564095 nanoseconds
< 1274063332 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it could be that one generation is ~3.33 nanoseconds.
< 1274063346 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, I think.
< 1274063356 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it'd be 1 meter / 3.33 nanoseconds
< 1274063357 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think
< 1274063358 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh
< 1274063371 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some reason, I asssumed 1 gen = 1 planck time
< 1274063378 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And c = 1
< 1274063516 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the speed of light is one Planck length per Planck time.
< 1274063518 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So in our universe, c is however much light travels in one planck time.
< 1274063520 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, what uorygl said.
< 1274063528 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 cell = 1 Planck length; 1 generation = 1 Planck time.
< 1274063530 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if one cell is one Planck length and one generation is one Planck time, it all works out.
< 1274063532 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now the issue with this is...
< 1274063535 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, what alise said.
< 1274063541 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cells behaviour is Too Fucking Complex for Planck length stuff!
< 1274063545 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Cells'
< 1274063564 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, particles' behavior is pretty complex, too.
< 1274063590 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's particles
< 1274063592 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not planck lengths
< 1274063755 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We should make a GoL program that speeds up the time between generations so that it properly matches the size of the cells
< 1274063780 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders
< 1274063796 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Larger cells == more time between generations, right?
< 1274063801 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or less time?
< 1274063842 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponderates
< 1274063859 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's say plack length is l, plack time is t, and speed of light = c
< 1274063875 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then 1/t=c, and 2l/2t=c
< 1274063880 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So why does it feel wrong?
< 1274064061 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The bigger something is, the more time it takes for light to travel across it.
< 1274064084 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is the sole relevant fact you have utilized.
< 1274064087 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :B01367/S012 is worthy of study; it has small replicators and glider guns.
< 1274064134 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, a breeder: http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/ca/replicators/b01367s012-breeder.lif which also renders the Sierpinski triangle as it goes.
< 1274064203 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1274064275 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :& spaceships form naturally.
< 1274064281 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks very different to Life.
< 1274064300 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gee, did I do that?
< 1274064306 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool -- I accidentally made a space filler.
< 1274064307 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: ?
< 1274064313 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make you say "different to".
< 1274064328 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Howso
< 1274064330 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[
< 1274064331 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x = 2, y = 3, rule = B01367/S012
< 1274064331 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2o$2o$bo!
< 1274064331 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :]]
< 1274064332 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ spacefiller
< 1274064340 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A nice one at that
< 1274064408 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems many things become spacefillers
< 1274064625 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :##.
< 1274064626 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..#
< 1274064628 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c/1 spaceship
< 1274064635 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, wait, c/2
< 1274064637 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very nice though
< 1274064667 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That rule has B0; I don't really like that.
< 1274064691 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially since Golly can't do HashLife with it.
< 1274064771 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HashLife sucks for examining small patterns, because it's asynchronous.
< 1274064801 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, point is that it doesn't produce the "gobs of cellular goop" that things like Day & Night do; it's reasonably Life-like, but it seems distinctly different from Life in "style", having more blobs of flesh and the like.
< 1274064811 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also having lots of random patterns spawn fast spacefillers.
< 1274064821 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This rule does not die down.  Life does.
< 1274064836 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Define die down.
< 1274064856 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Randomly-created patterns tend to become essentially static.
< 1274064866 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1274064875 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But at the same time, there are intricate patterns: glider guns, breeders, replicators.
< 1274064879 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally:
< 1274064885 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Philosopher: Can we ever be certain an observation is true?
< 1274064885 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Engineer: Yep.
< 1274064885 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Philosopher: How?
< 1274064885 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Engineer: Lookin'.
< 1274064885 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal
< 1274064905 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION agrees.
< 1274064953 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a difference between solid mathematical proof and extreme probability... it's just that, you know, at some point we have to consider the probability that there's an error in the mathematical proof that everyone missed
< 1274064958 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-243-203-60.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274064964 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then realising that what we consider solid mathematical proof is actually quite fallible
< 1274064984 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If everyone used computerised proof verifiers, then there'd be a much larger gap between widely-accepted-mathematical-proof and tons-of-evidence.
< 1274065027 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, what SMBC is that?
< 1274065078 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=1879#comic
< 1274065081 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The red button.
< 1274066578 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is life is an esolang?
< 1274066665 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to be up in 5.5 hours.
< 1274066677 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: I assume you know what Life is and are merely inquiring about its esolang status -- yes. But perhaps more of an esosimulation.
< 1274066692 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Certainly we can make things in it, things that compute, things that combine; certainly it is Turing-complete; and certainly it is esoteric.
< 1274066697 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking RL
< 1274066699 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make your own decision. Also, #b3s23 is lonely.
< 1274066702 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, life itself.
< 1274066703 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1274066707 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not unless you use a horrible analogy.
< 1274066727 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok :-)
< 1274067373 0 :augur!~augur@c-68-54-80-152.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274067618 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it's time.
< 1274067624 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, Bye
< 1274067637 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hope you make more progress than has been visible
< 1274067659 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't.
< 1274067673 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, start making progress!
< 1274067703 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You try moving country.
< 1274067746 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/
< 1274067796 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, try.
< 1274067800 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without moving.
< 1274067808 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moving -- remotely.
< 1274067811 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Almost a contradiction.
< 1274067900 0 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274067918 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank you, everyone; and good night.
< 1274067922 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1274070056 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1274071242 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sleep? what's that? :p
< 1274071906 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274071931 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1274073613 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1274073638 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@74.13.125.162 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274074414 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I wonder if a language could be both esoteric and have a readable "hello world" program
< 1274074425 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :certainly
< 1274074469 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :example?
< 1274074490 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slashes
< 1274074494 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :befunge
< 1274074550 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HQ9+
< 1274074651 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: HQ9+ fails at "Goodbye world"
< 1274074661 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274074732 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, yes it does.
< 1274075215 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl :P
< 1274075256 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Truth.
< 1274075472 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fail to see how Perl is an esolang
< 1274075511 0 :gm|lap!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274075706 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then again, I'm pretty blind
< 1274075928 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1274075952 0 :myndzi!myndzi@c-24-19-39-178.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274076388 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Acme::Eyedrops
< 1274076412 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, so it has an esoteric subset
< 1274076517 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which overlaps significantly with the useful subset
< 1274076527 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot like C++
< 1274076529 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, see my message in ##nomic ?
< 1274076534 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1274076548 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Am I paranoid?
< 1274076572 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends. Is a demon about to eat your face off?
< 1274076617 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A demon might, but probably won't, eat Agora
< 1274078067 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274079037 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: No route to host
< 1274079082 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274079876 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1274080536 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
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< 1274082196 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: null
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< 1274082816 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1274083030 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1274083199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
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< 1274083306 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Bye
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< 1274084001 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274084570 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1274086065 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1274087334 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274088863 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274089652 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
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< 1274090717 0 :lereah_!~lereah@nanpc301.in2p3.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274091423 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1274092179 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1274094016 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2.2/20100316074819]
< 1274094921 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274095503 0 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274095605 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1274095633 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, why does my client nickping me in every channel simultaneously when that happens?
< 1274095636 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ais523
< 1274097344 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1274098789 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~chatzilla@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274099229 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
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< 1274099698 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@ix.ceid.upatras.gr JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1274101085 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274101175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, there?
< 1274101244 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, sort-of, but still busy.
< 1274101257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, do you want a cheap panoramic head?
< 1274101276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it does require some bit of work. It is kind of DIY but it is programmable
< 1274101290 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would like to hear about it, yes, but do not count on many comments back.
< 1274101293 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you already have the parts (which seems plausible)...
< 1274101299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, lego. Let me find the link
< 1274101311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.philohome.com/panobot2/panobot2.htm
< 1274101338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, there is a link somewhere there to someone who did manage to rotate it around the nodal point (the model on that page isn't front-heavy enough)
< 1274101348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so it is just behind the nodal point iirc)
< 1274101382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie,  of course it need to be adapted to the camera model in question but I think it would be feasible for me to make something like that for my camera. :)
< 1274101415 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I even have an RCX so a nice automatic rotate-take-photo would work
< 1274101425 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was sort of guessing it was about lego; after all, what can't you do with that stuff?
< 1274101432 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, :D
< 1274101462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heck I found a webpage with someone who made an mobile crane in lego. Able to lift 1 kg...
< 1274101471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is quite impressive.
< 1274101526 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's that "lego auto factory" video, which might not be mind-blowingly "wow", but still a nice watch.
< 1274101529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it did use two non-standard parts though... the model that didn't was still able to lift about 250 g but beyond that it started buckling considerably iirc. So that gal (!) who made it added some metal reinforcement to the boom
< 1274101533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me find the link(s)
< 1274101556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.jenniferclarkbass.com//lego/demag_crane.htm <-- reinforced
< 1274101565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.jenniferclarkbass.com//lego/crane.htm <-- previous non-reinforced
< 1274101626 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274101653 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it is some heavy duty lego. Able to actually drive over rather uneven terrain (most "official" lego models tend to be about looks rather than actual functionality when it comes to stuff like lego technic offroad models, IME)
< 1274101686 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, btw do you have the required stuff to build a turn table like that? I seem to have most (and quite a bit more)
< 1274101694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was some time ago I last used lego though
< 1274101769 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274101807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and a panoramic head should be considerably simpler than an "as accurate as possible" scale model of an "all-terrain" mobile crane... :P
< 1274101831 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so what if some reinforcement sticks out? it doesn't need to look like anything in specific
< 1274101831 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really own anything recent; I had few bits from the old "Technic" era, but nothing programmable. I do have some friends that are more lego-enthusiastic, though.
< 1274101832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :)
< 1274101849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, if you have a motor and one of those battery packs it should be doable still
< 1274101853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if non-programmable
< 1274101855 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :technic is out of date? what a pity
< 1274101869 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the motors were awful, they weren't powerful enough to do very much at all
< 1274101881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the ones from the RCX era and later were powerful
< 1274101887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slower but more powerful
< 1274101908 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, the technic ones, if you tried to gear them down to be more powerful, tended to just not move at all because of the friction in the gears
< 1274101912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :saw some page (web archive :/) that measured their relative strength
< 1274101922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, do you mean the fast spinning long grey box ones?
< 1274101937 0 :hiato!~fdulu@41-135-6-154.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274101937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with power attachment below
< 1274101949 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know where my lego bits are; it's possible they're all in some unlabeled box at my father's storage room thing.
< 1274101949 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, and later the shorter grey box ones with attachment above, which were much the same
< 1274101956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, or the newer, cubish ones? with power atop
< 1274101960 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant both
< 1274101968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the cubish ones are more powerful but they came in two variants
< 1274101975 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I know mine are all in one of about 100 unlabeled boxes at my house
< 1274101977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the modern one is lighter and weaker
< 1274101984 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh
< 1274101986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, only outside difference is the number iirc.
< 1274102011 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There were some cat-related complications in all lego projects anyway. I doubt the new model (of cat, I mean) would be any less... "helpful".
< 1274102017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but yeah less mass acting as a fly-wheel, you can hear the difference when turning them by hand (if you have one of each to compare)
< 1274102056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also higher friction at "free floating" mode with the newer power-above variant than the older power-above
< 1274102088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh and I have too much lego to fit it in one box :D
< 1274102090 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, you really analysed this a lot
< 1274102094 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's a very large box
< 1274102103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I have two RCX sets. One 1.5 and one 2.0
< 1274102107 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I could train that Roomba to be a robotic panorama head. It'd just need some sort of portable table to get high enough. :p
< 1274102117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the 2.0 ones came with the worse motors. the 1.5 one had the better motors
< 1274102127 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(With an added bonus that it'd be cleaning places while taking pictures.)
< 1274102128 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe I have 3 or 4 better and about as many worse ones
< 1274102133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure of exact count
< 1274102175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but see this url, really worth the picture. It is a panoramic head for a camera built with lego. And can be programmed to take a 360Â° shot
< 1274102177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.philohome.com/panobot2/panobot2.htm
< 1274102178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^
< 1274102190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know you filter urls but yeah check logs
< 1274102198 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I can imagine what it would look like
< 1274102209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it is for one of them old nikon coolpix or whatever
< 1274102227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I plan doing one of those thus summer (adapting for the dimensions of my camera of course)
< 1274102248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I have a zoom lens I think I need some sort of movable camera "grip"
< 1274102259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can adjust it for the nodal point of a given zoom level
< 1274102263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, doesn't it vary iirc?
< 1274102285 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would assume so.
< 1274102303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well with zoom level, how could the nodal point *not* vary?
< 1274102320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also http://www.philohome.com/legophoto.htm has some other interesting photo stuff for lego
< 1274102321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1274102322 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with lego
< 1274102324 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could design the sensor to move so that it's compensated. :p
< 1274102347 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, eh, it would need to look at photos and process the data
< 1274102352 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274102353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt I could do that in an RCX
< 1274102369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what with no camera stuff for it
< 1274102382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and very limited processing capabilities
< 1274102386 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I mean, the camera could do that, to make it independent of zoom level. Of course they don't. But they could.
< 1274102392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1274102429 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of panoramas, here's a 360-degree one with the N900 not-quite-a-camera, with no tripod or anything, horrible parallax on the pier part and even worse white-balance/exposure problems for the part taken directly against sunlight: http://zem.fi/~fis/siikajarvi.jpg
< 1274102449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh for a phone it would be trivial to design a working such lego pano head
< 1274102452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all it is light
< 1274102458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my camera is rather heavier
< 1274102481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would need some counter balance to not tip (so yeah going to be careful when testing it initially!)
< 1274102486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, nice!
< 1274102513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, a bit less crop on that pier(?) would have been nice
< 1274102534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or are you standing on it?
< 1274102536 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1274102541 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I am. Well, was.
< 1274102563 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Had to crop quite heavily since I couldn't quite keep the horizon at the same level while turning around.
< 1274102581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well okay, it kind of looked like a short pier and you were standing on opposite shore. It looks kind of less than 360
< 1274102584 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274102587 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably due to the low height?
< 1274102631 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, connection trouble
< 1274102654 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could be. It's also scaled to pretty low resolution because there was a piece of debris on the lens, making the middle regions of all shots pretty blurry, which I noticed only at home.
< 1274102668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1274102726 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm, for some reason the images don't seem to contain GPS tags. I must also have turned that off at some point. Aw.
< 1274102741 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you don't want us knowing where you live?
< 1274102780 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway you could build less advanced pano heads even without an rcx. two motors (one to turn, one to drive shutter arm) would be best I guess. One motor to rotate and then manual shutter might still work if the design is heavy enough. And even manual rotation with a heavy design should offer some improvement compared to ball head or no tripod
< 1274102799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this would be best to put on a table or such though. I doubt I could mount it on my tripod
< 1274102942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm also my memory card is rather slow, I would need some way to set the time delay between shots...
< 1274102988 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wth, I'm still logged in after not using that site for several years
< 1274102994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some long lived cookie certainly
< 1274103026 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That particular photo is not exactly from where I live, anyway: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=60.277494,24.512987&spn=0.040257,0.104456&z=14
< 1274103034 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I wonder if a site can detect a browser's saved-password and automatically click submit?
< 1274103117 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would think the saved-form-information, after being filled in to the fields (and visible to the user), would be accessible to the scripts too. You might not get a change notification on the field, but you could poll.
< 1274103175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I hope not. Some js to check time it took to type it in
< 1274103192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway it said logged in and such already on the main page so it wasn't that
< 1274103203 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, just thought it would be an interesting concept
< 1274103305 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there's been at least one case of a web developer wanting fancy form-validation insta-feedback, and made the password field have a green/red background based on whether what's written in the field so far was a prefix of the correct password or not, and updating that after each keypress.
< 1274103363 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274103409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, very nice site that one: http://peeron.com/inv/parts/5306b for example, I can see on that url how many of that parts I have (since I added lego sets list to my account).
< 1274103432 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc you can upload an ldraw file (a lego cad format) and it can tell if you have the needed parts
< 1274103435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very nice feature :)
< 1274103442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I can get a listing of all parts too
< 1274103456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a .tsv.
< 1274103462 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But isn't it a well-known truth that there's never enough parts?
< 1274103463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\.$//
< 1274103536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, sure but this can tell you like "sorry, not enough parts" or "sorry, not enough in the right colours, but if you use other colours you will have enough" or "yay, enough parts".
< 1274103549 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(listing which parts you are missing, of course and so on)
< 1274103559 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Completely coincidentally, does your URL filtering block whole comments that happen to contain URLs, or just remove/replace the URL part?
< 1274103560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and I don't remember the actual wording, was years ago I used it)
< 1274103566 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just the URL part
< 1274103568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since well, there are very few ldraw tools for linux
< 1274103588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, does it mark it in some way so you can see "url removed"
< 1274103593 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1274103605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, so we can't use that for secret info passing
< 1274103613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like passing fake urls to hide the info from you
< 1274103619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not as easily then
< 1274103619 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Does it leave the domain name in place so that you can make educated guesses as to whether it would be worth the hassle?
< 1274103650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, like http://ais523.org/loves/talk/behind/his/back, very nice site ;P
< 1274103651 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://example.com/ais523_is_a_boogerhead.am_I_not_right.html
< 1274103666 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems we may have had a rather similar idea there.
< 1274103670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1274103688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you might want to check the logs there for a good laugh ;P
< 1274103713 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's not an especially unexpected thing.
< 1274103722 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true
< 1274103727 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1274103736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what does that word even mean?
< 1274103739 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boggerhead I mean
< 1274103768 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boogers are what come out of your nose. You know, snot.
< 1274103796 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274103802 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah
< 1274103805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you might want to check the logs there for a good laugh ;P
< 1274103815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not sure if that went through first time)
< 1274103845 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it didn't, but they don't look particularly amusing
< 1274103853 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to talk behind someone's back, you can always use /msg
< 1274103856 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even create a new channel
< 1274103867 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, but that's not the same at all.
< 1274103874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the main issue I see [with the lego panohead] is the rather small turn table size. and that the camera if centered on the nodal point will have it's weight distributed far from the center above the turn table
< 1274103889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, which means I need some counter weight plus a very wide base below the turn table
< 1274103901 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, talking behind someone's back in a publically logged channel seems likely to backfire by accident
< 1274103907 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, see http://home.arcor.de/markus.matern/Robotics/PanoBotCoolPix995/PanoBotCoolPix995_23.gif for turn table size
< 1274103917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, sure
< 1274103929 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's the audacity of it.
< 1274103963 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, if you're not an op, if someone's firing insults at you pretty much all you can do is /ignore them
< 1274103972 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're hiding the insults, then it saves someone the trouble of ignoring
< 1274103982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also those instructions on that page are better than lego's own. These highlight new pieces in each step. Meaning an end to the search of "hm so where do all the bits listed as needed for this step go?"
< 1274104014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the effect is rather visible in http://home.arcor.de/markus.matern/Robotics/PanoBotCoolPix995/PanoBotCoolPix995_30.gif
< 1274104124 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks nice, yes, if not quite as polished as the official instructions tend to be.
< 1274104187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, depends on how old the set in question is
< 1274104198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also I saw some better renderings with more recent ldraw tools
< 1274104210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also ldraw + povray = wow
< 1274104216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there is some tool for that yes)
< 1274104235 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, I was going to say they could spend a few bit-bucks on some anti-aliasing.
< 1274104299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I wonder if I could build something to vary the exposure? I do have a micromotor iirc
< 1274104303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it might be possible
< 1274104310 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way I HDR will be easy
< 1274104345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that uses the 3 outputs then of one RCX, and I'd rather not need to use 2. would be too bulky
< 1274104366 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A bit of remote-controllability in the camera would be nice, too. Though a robot pressing buttons always gets some spare awesomeness-points.
< 1274104371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well one on the base to stabilise it and one as part of the counterweight
< 1274104372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe
< 1274104392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I have one of those RCX IR-remote-controls
< 1274104400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it lets you manually run motors and also start programs
< 1274104404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus shut off things
< 1274104416 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only issue is that with two RCX it would be... messy
< 1274104430 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure they can use IR themselves to talk between each other but the remote would drive both
< 1274104433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think
< 1274104477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah that brickos custom firmware is a dead project. And the required cross compiler was never ported to anything newer than GCC 2.9x iirc
< 1274104508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'd probably prefer NQC with lego's own firmware, even though it has a lot of restrictions...
< 1274104605 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somewhat relatedly, the N900 has an IR led, but none of the official software uses it for anything, and it's not listed in any of the marketing material; I think some maemo.org wiki page mentions it, but that's pretty unofficial. I haven't yet found out any use for it, but I'd like to. There's an irreco port so you can make it emulate just about any IR-based remote control, but I don't have anything that would be controllable that way.
< 1274104666 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1274105050 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274105069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, for RCX it doesn't use the "standard" data IR freq iirc
< 1274105149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm another issue with the base of that panohead is that it must not be wide enough to show up in the image
< 1274105610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh I just realised another thing. If possible the panohead should be somewhat modular and easy to take apart/reassemble. Since you will probably end up moving it quite a lot
< 1274105809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm it would be nice with ability to rotate up/down too... but I doubt I could pull that off
< 1274105879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, sure I can see how can be done in theory but not with lego
< 1274106605 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-15-17.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274106822 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The N900 lirc_rx51 module seems to support setting the carrier frequency to anything between 20 kHz ... 500 kHz. A bit of a moot point since I don't have RCX remote-control-receivers either, though.
< 1274106875 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm iirc 75 kHz for RCX
< 1274106989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh seems to vary with versions
< 1274107004 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to be software-driven, so higher frequencies == more interrupts, but I guess it doesn't really matter for short bursts of signals.
< 1274107016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in firmware
< 1274107035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RCX 1.x used 38.5 kHz and RCX 2.x used 75 kHz
< 1274107045 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or uses I assume
< 1274107079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, can you set 2400 baud?
< 1274107081 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :38 kHz is the "standard" one. Makes one wonder why they bothered changing it.
< 1274107117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, since it seems that it simply uses light on/off for one period to represent 1/0
< 1274107325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, eh 76 kHz not 75
< 1274107344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The IR interface on the RCX is able to communicate with Spybots, Scout Bricks, Lego Train, and the NXT (using a third-party infrared link sensor.) The RCX 1.0 IR receiver carrier frequency is 38.5 kHz, while the RCX 2.0 IR carrier frequency is 76 kHz. Both versions can transmit on either frequency.[6]  The carrier signal is generated by one of the RCX's internal timers. The RCX communicates with a co
< 1274107345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mputer using a Serial  or USB IR tower."
< 1274107347 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :says wikipedia
< 1274107486 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am under the impression that the lirc interface is flexible enough for any sort of low-enough-data-rate signals, but I've never used it. The kernel driver side seems to take just a list of timings when to turn the light on/off. (And when on, it independently flickers it at that configurable carrier frequency, but that's of course not related to data rates.)
< 1274108554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1274108818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARGH tar bomb
< 1274108819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1274109552 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I am leaving. You are about to explode.
< 1274109839 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tar-and-feathers bomb.
< 1274109904 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: hmm, I wonder why tar hasn't been extended to detect tarbombs?
< 1274109918 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could have a --no-tarbomb command line option that you could add to your shell aliases
< 1274109957 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274109981 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION downloads tar source
< 1274110030 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first, let's see if I can build this without changes, shouldn't be too hard
< 1274110092 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, there's something sort-of weird about tar searching for tar as part of its configure
< 1274110099 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hey, there's autotools for you
< 1274110117 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strangely, the autotools configuration here, at first sight, seems to be /correct/, which is bizarre for a GNU application
< 1274110206 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, this is strange, and really confusing; I do the standard autoreconf, configure, make, make install, and everything works perfectly the first time
< 1274110213 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is something wrong with the world
< 1274110374 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION vaguely wonders why GNU tar has an option to specify your favourite rsh implementation
< 1274110384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, heh
< 1274110394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would have been nice
< 1274110407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but what about large tar archives?
< 1274110420 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/obviously/, if I'm going to add a new and crusty yet useful feature to tar, it should be GNU tar I add it to
< 1274110422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I remember an uncompressed tar archive where tar -tf took a lot of time
< 1274110430 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that's where you add crufty features
< 1274110439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so I guess there is no file index at the start
< 1274110442 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's a different problem, you can just control-C there
< 1274110468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes but the no-tar-bomb option shouldn't need to read the archive twice.
< 1274110478 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1274110482 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :once for checking of tar bomb, once for actual expansion
< 1274110497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather, be optimistic and if you detect a tar bomb midway, abort
< 1274110513 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see, currently I think the ideal semantics would be "error out if trying to expand a tar file containing more than one file/directory in . when the current directory contains any files/directories but . and .."
< 1274110514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way only one of the expanding dirs have been created
< 1274110518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which seems reasonable
< 1274110534 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I thought you meant tar bomb in the sense of "drops loads of files into the current directory", that's what people normally mean
< 1274110534 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't depend on reading the stream twice anyway, I do tar-netcat-tar sometimes.
< 1274110534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, basically that tar archive in question was larger than ram iirc
< 1274110540 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than along the lines of zipfiles
< 1274110541 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes indeed it does
< 1274110544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what I meant
< 1274110544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1274110549 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*zipbombs
< 1274110550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, dropping all those files
< 1274110592 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, as fizzie said: "<fizzie> You can't depend on reading the stream twice anyway, I do tar-netcat-tar sometimes." and I dealt with tar files larger than ram recently
< 1274110610 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this isn't meant to be protection against malicious tarfiles, rather protection against mistakes in creating tarballs
< 1274110617 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, I'd need to look into how the TOC works
< 1274110630 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be noted that Emacs can write just the TOC of a tarfile without problems, so presumably it does come first
< 1274110637 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION man 5 tar
< 1274110643 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people should read section 5 of the manual more often
< 1274110667 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~chatzilla@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274110680 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, seems to alternate between filenames and data
< 1274110694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I just realised how to make that auto pano head be able to handle almost all exposure lengths and flash card speeds.
< 1274110706 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you'd have to abort at the second offending filename, and delete whatever files had been created in the meantime
< 1274110709 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, can you guess if I say that I have lego light sensors (light level only)
< 1274110721 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, :D
< 1274110737 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, if you wanted to make a /malicious/ tarfile, you'd just make a normal one with a .bashrc file in as well (and counterparts for other common shells)
< 1274110762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well for that tar file it seemed to read the whole tar to be able to list everything in it
< 1274110769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless tar -tf does more than just listing
< 1274110791 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I've got it
< 1274110799 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do tar -t very quickly on a /seekable/ file
< 1274110806 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because each header lets you know how much data to skip
< 1274110811 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the file's nonseekable, though, you have to read the whole thing
< 1274110813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it was a 2.6 GB uncompressed tar file
< 1274110833 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably tar isn't intelligent enough to seek over the uninteresting bits, but emacs is
< 1274110846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it contained some interesting files in it... Like .zip.xz unless I misremembered
< 1274110862 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it was downloaded from Xilnix (sp? those who make FPGAs...)
< 1274110871 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1274110872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and well, I did want to check for tar bomb
< 1274110877 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "Xilinx"
< 1274110888 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yeah I wouldn't trust a company with doing it right
< 1274110889 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, they certainly do make interesting tarballs
< 1274110909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but this tar bomb I ran into today was from sourceforge. And I didn't expect a tarbomb there...
< 1274110958 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenCores is worse, many people just check tarballs into svn rather than checking in the directory tree
< 1274110964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh
< 1274110967 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus making it almost useless for anything but backup-over-time
< 1274110980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't they provide any guidelines for this?
< 1274111022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and I presume you also ran into Xilinx tarballs from that comment above?
< 1274111055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I was hoping to somehow extract timing data on the gates from that to use with ghdl
< 1274111072 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274111092 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274111208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> thus making it almost useless for anything but backup-over-time
< 1274111208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<AnMaster> don't they provide any guidelines for this?
< 1274111208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<AnMaster> ais523, and I presume you also ran into Xilinx tarballs from that comment above?
< 1274111208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<AnMaster> ais523, I was hoping to somehow extract timing data on the gates from that to use with ghdl
< 1274111212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anything missed?
< 1274111219 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in either direction)
< 1274111232 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the last three, I missed
< 1274111243 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I have run into xilinx tarballs
< 1274111266 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most notably, when they sent me some stuff in a tarball intended to run on a Windows system that didn't have tar
< 1274111273 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1274111288 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think they quite "get" Windows
< 1274111294 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is an unusual situation for a big company to be in
< 1274111300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed...
< 1274111323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what are the chances to manage that timing data thing? I read somewhere about someone managing to do that from the downloads of some other manufacture...
< 1274111362 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea, but my guess is that if something's a free download, it isn't going to help with it
< 1274111517 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally they charge for information that precise
< 1274111635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, no guesses for how?
< 1274111647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, :/
< 1274112018 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1274112108 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274112381 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was in a bus, going from work to home.
< 1274112584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah
< 1274112588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, forgot /away ;P
< 1274112594 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274112595 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should've been automatic.
< 1274112602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway can you guess now?
< 1274112603 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe my automatic thing is borken, wouldn't surprise me.
< 1274112605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<AnMaster> fizzie, I just realised how to make that auto pano head be able to handle almost all exposure lengths and flash card speeds.
< 1274112606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<AnMaster> fizzie, can you guess if I say that I have lego light sensors (light level only)
< 1274112628 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~chatzilla@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274112629 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would guess some sort of "currently working" LED in the camera, at least mine has something that blinks as long as it is working. (And blanks the camera screen too, I think.)
< 1274112666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes there is a LED for compact flash card activity :)
< 1274112696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah sure the monitor... well it would be kind of annoying to have sensors obscuring it. Plus there could be black stuff anyway
< 1274112743 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, the "this was what you got" preview might confuse it too. But there is the led.
< 1274112761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so what is needed is simply: 1) press shutter and release (after suitable time, will have to figure such details out)...  2) wait until led turns on. 3) wait until it turns off again
< 1274112833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, plus for long exposures my camera does something funny when taking that "black frame" after to remove the heat noise or whatever from the CCD...
< 1274112846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so probably a bit more complex than that for the LED stuff
< 1274112878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also who knows, if it blinks. (it usually doesn't but it might be too fast for a human but still possible to measure with such a sensor)
< 1274113090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... I wonder what the best way is to adjust the camera position (wrt nodal point)... probably a lego engine the thing on some sort of "flat cogwheel" rail
< 1274113181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah... "Technic Gear Rack 1 x 4"
< 1274113182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl food
< 1274113189 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Steal a stepper motor from a HD, for the ultimate in precise positioning.
< 1274113259 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are they more or less accurate than those in CNC machines?
< 1274113458 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no real clue. Could be less. I don't think they rely on the usual boring stepper motors any more.
< 1274113466 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The arm is moved using a voice coil actuator or in some older designs a stepper motor."
< 1274113517 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a habit of hyperbole, just downgrade all my statements a few notches in general.
< 1274113718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how are they controlled btw?
< 1274113743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, as I *do* happen to have an old non-working HD in some box somewhere
< 1274113764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so this sounds entirely possible if it is possible to control it from a RCX :D
< 1274113774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and interface it with lego somehow)
< 1274113781 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: stepper motors have four input wires
< 1274113786 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and power input
< 1274113793 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to control two of the wires at a time in a pattern
< 1274113796 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AB BC CD DA etc
< 1274113802 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each time round the pattern it moves four steps
< 1274113809 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do the pattern in reverse to move in the other direction
< 1274113822 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you need a half-step, you can do just B to be halfway between AB and BC, for instance
< 1274113830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, does it have some turning limit? Or can it turn 360Â°Â forever?
< 1274113862 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forever
< 1274113867 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also what are typical voltages/currents of them?
< 1274113884 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it was something around 9V last time I used one, can't remember the current
< 1274113902 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't be surprised if hard drive ones used lower voltages, though
< 1274113925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm right
< 1274113937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm the RCX uses PWM to control the motor unless I misremember... might be hard to interface that... Oh wait I think it is done in software. Maybe
< 1274113965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah it probably is
< 1274113991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, for 4 wires I would need more outputs than the RCX has...
< 1274114033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it has 3 PWM controlled motor outputs, where the PWM is done in software by the ROM iirc. I don't think it was the firmware that did it...)
< 1274114090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, wait, why does it use 4 wires? That is just 4 states. Couldn't it be done with 2 wires?
< 1274114096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and gray code of course
< 1274114108 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because it doesn't do calculation internally
< 1274114116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1274114129 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just the sequence you activate the electromagnets in
< 1274114144 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1274114155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how small are the steps?
< 1274114168 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty small, normally, you need loads for a full revolution
< 1274114195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so how fast is that done in a harddrive. I suspect an RCX couldn't drive it at full speed anyway...
< 1274114210 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the faster you drive them, the less torque you get
< 1274114214 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :likewise, if you slow down, it's stronger
< 1274114231 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for something that's easy to turn anyway, like a harddrive that has already spun up, you can cycle through the steps really fast
< 1274114254 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia says 200 steps per revolution, that seems reasonable
< 1274114271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, seems very few for a harddrive...
< 1274114279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless there is some gearbox
< 1274114288 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably harddrives have more steps
< 1274114290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would reduce accuracy...
< 1274114305 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it seems that by using more complicated patterns than just 0 and 1, you can get arbitrary fractions of a step
< 1274114308 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which also makes sense
< 1274114324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1274114351 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, as in +4V and +2V for the ones next to each other? Instead of same for both?
< 1274114359 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, that sort of thing
< 1274114502 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A hard-drive stepper motor controls the "lateral" position of the read-head on the disk, it doesn't rotate the disk itself.
< 1274114523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well yes I do realise that easily...
< 1274114543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it would however be used to seek
< 1274114548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and seeks should be fast and precise
< 1274114556 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what sort of motor rotates the disk? just a regular one?
< 1274114570 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just a regular one; I don't know what they use for decoding the current angle of the disk.
< 1274114583 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably the read head itself
< 1274114592 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could determine where you were from what you were reading
< 1274114618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I assume there is some sort of flywheel or such on the spinning disk to make it rotate at a stable speed?
< 1274114629 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea
< 1274114634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, fizzie then
< 1274114680 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm no HD engineer either. Not sure how stable it needs to be, though I guess compensating for some wibble there would presumably make the reading circuitry somewhat more complicated.
< 1274114739 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given how small the single storage regions are nowadays, I'm sure it's not completely simple.
< 1274114758 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, plus (desktop) harddrives at least tend to be rather heavy
< 1274114764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure what bit causes it
< 1274114801 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The platters contribute a reasonable fraction of the weight, at least comparing a 2-platter terabyte disk with a 4-platter 2-terabyte disk that otherwise share identical hardware.
< 1274114802 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, as far as I remember my current SATA disk is about the same weight as the larger dvd drive
< 1274114815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it is 350 GB
< 1274114822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit older in other words
< 1274114836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway laptop drives can't be very heavy presumably
< 1274114867 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, larger platters in one? Or different packing density?
< 1274114871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of the bits)
< 1274114880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if so, why make both variants
< 1274114929 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given that they want to optimize the capacity, I'd guess they use the same ("as much as we can cram in there with our tech") or at least similar packing density in all disks.
< 1274115002 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, adding weight means more energy wasted in keeping all that weight rotating, so if you want to optimize power usage too, you'd want to make things lighter. (Of course it's relatively easy to keep all that mass spinning when you've spun it up in the first place, but there's still friction.)
< 1274115032 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least I've seen the weight argument in some drive-power-usage-analysis-review thing.
< 1274115060 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait... 2 terrabytes for the second
< 1274115061 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1274115066 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274115068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :misread it as both being 1 terrabyte
< 1274115130 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. Yes, they commonly put half a terabyte per (3.5" HD) platter nowadays. Or did a while ago; I'm sure someone's done more than that already.
< 1274115150 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1274115666 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Twungot says: "About NetHack: the other hand, is necessary for a charm of powerful trouble, though they are the fairest in the middle of her spear, ..."
< 1274115731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, still done by a perl script instead of befunge98 program?
< 1274115745 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the concept of a charm of powerful trouble
< 1274115832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, where are the parts from?
< 1274115847 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274115849 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Unfortunately, yes. And before you ask, I also haven't had any jitfunge time lately, and won't in a month or so. (Still a week of exams and then two weeks of Europe.)
< 1274115891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a few weeks ahead at university still
< 1274116014 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"middle of her [Aegis]" from the end of the Medusa desc.
< 1274116048 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"her spear" from shrieker.
< 1274116092 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've started that subset-of-Befunge static compiler
< 1274116105 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"fairest in" from "Who is the fairest in the land?", a Snow White quote.
< 1274116121 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You did notice my one, right?-)
< 1274116147 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't think I did
< 1274116199 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It compiles and runs fungot, to some extent. Babbling probably won't work, and persistence had some issues, but I did get it to come here on-channel.
< 1274116229 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When was this? Does it exist somewhere?
< 1274116250 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or did you just hack jitfunge a bit
< 1274116275 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm, I'll have to grep for that. And no, it's almost completely separate from jitfunge.
< 1274116291 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's in Java, for example. :p
< 1274116297 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh >_<
< 1274116301 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does it emit?
< 1274116312 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86 for GNU as? :-P
< 1274116315 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LLVM assembly, I think.
< 1274116322 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As text.
< 1274116325 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there bindings?
< 1274116326 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah :-P
< 1274116359 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mine is in Haskell and uses the LLVM bindings so it's thrice as awesome
< 1274116368 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, I wasn't so taken by LLVM's IRBuilder, or the whole mess of classes there.
< 1274116391 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just use the C API if you find the C++ to be too much of a mess
< 1274116503 0 :lereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274116503 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~chatzilla@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274116505 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly I should've. Instead I ended up with a Java reimplementation of the type system thing, except a lot smaller, of course.
< 1274116520 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah >_<
< 1274116523 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274116535 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, it was more of a proof-of-concept thing; I think I did it in less than a week. And possibly I'll use it to run fungot permanently at some point.
< 1274116547 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use mine instead :-P
< 1274116553 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which I've thus far done in less than a couple of hours
< 1274116556 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, it's not invented here. :p
< 1274116564 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And can do a hello-world but not much more
< 1274116581 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You and your NIH syndrome :-P
< 1274116592 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fizzie who says NIH
< 1274116694 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How's your code generation? Completely mechanistic translation of the Befunge-98 code, trusting LLVM to fold all stack manipulation away; a "intermediate stack operands turn into values, LLVM does the rest" thing; or something else?
< 1274116750 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I took CCBI's stack, translated it to C (because I didn't think it through properly; that was pointless but oh well), and emit calls to it for stack manipulation
< 1274116770 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No "stack overflow" errors for me :-P
< 1274116797 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, okay. I do a reasonable amount of "from stack to a register thing" translation, for no particular reason.
< 1274116815 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LLVM does optimize it well enough
< 1274116818 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least when MODE isn't used
< 1274116836 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably. For some reason silly-looking code, even temporary such, irritates me.
< 1274116851 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's silly-looking
< 1274116879 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And how'd you do Funge-Space in your thing
< 1274116908 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something like &&+. involving "push to stack, push to stack, pop, pop, sum, push to stack, pop, print" is silly to me.
< 1274116961 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh; at least it's easy to debug
< 1274116990 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also tend to emit a bunch of basic blocks which do nothing but br to another
< 1274117003 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cull those out, for the same reason.
< 1274117011 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I let LLVM do that :-P
< 1274117023 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see much point in duplicating LLVM functionality
< 1274117034 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, I guess it's a matter of taste.
< 1274117036 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just more LOC for no gain
< 1274117060 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see much "point" in the whole endeavour, and I did it mostly for playing-around reasons, as well as the irrational irritation -reasons.
< 1274117062 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want "better looking" code, compile with -O. The problem is that while it removes silliness it can also introduce complexity :-P
< 1274117146 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, you've yet to tell me what you did about Funge-Space
< 1274117205 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I just took jitfunge's hash-based fungespace for that; at least there's a bit of reuse. And I have a static funge-space box the size of the progarm source code, since I'll need that data anyway for g'ing the right "static data" in.
< 1274117277 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So essentially what cfunge does; one static box + hash table
< 1274117299 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right.
< 1274117382 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How far does it get in Mycology?
< 1274117428 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still on the stack-to-register translation; I just don't completely trust LLVM to remove all the stack underflow tests when inlining the stack ops. I guess it's quite probable it does just fine, I just feel like since I know more about the case I'm code-generating in than LLVM does, I might as well do sensible things from the get-go.
< 1274117443 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure I've tested.
< 1274117457 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try to check when I have time; now I really need to prepare some food.
< 1274117464 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should've been doing that for the last half an hour already.
< 1274117483 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doing some higher-level optimization is not wrong, of course
< 1274117535 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I plan to do some early folding already at the parsing stage, to allow handling only one direction of a branch
< 1274117562 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although probably the only kind of code that does that is self-modifying anyway)
< 1274117594 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use _|s somewhat often as a combination of one of v<>^ and a $, when trying to size-optimize things.
< 1274117605 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I and mooz used to call those things "discard-ifs", even.
< 1274117616 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1274117654 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's even one case in fungot, I believe. Or I might be confusing that with a single case of [ or ], which I'm not in the habit of using, due to some Befunge93 roots.
< 1274117697 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: jumpin' jumpin'
< 1274117700 0 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274117712 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is it with you and your hostname?
< 1274117730 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274117772 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I have left one of freenode's servers with an IPv6 entry in my bouncer configuration, and my IPv6 reverse-DNS setup is broken, and I always forget it some three seconds after doing this jumpery.
< 1274117783 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^source
< 1274117783 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98
< 1274117785 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_<
< 1274117798 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This was one roundabout way of locating that URL.)
< 1274117832 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There on line 109 is a case of using a _ instead of $<.
< 1274117840 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's even documented; it says "d-if" right next to it.
< 1274117848 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Granted, "d-if" might not mean much to most.
< 1274117900 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too bad the _ is also used as a real if :-P
< 1274117921 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that particular _, it goes always to the left.
< 1274117930 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even from the | above it?
< 1274117957 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That one's not compiler-obvious even if it does
< 1274117974 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I believe it does. But it's not very clear to a compiler.
< 1274117987 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It uses a fingerprint instruction so it's practically invisible
< 1274118003 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In general, I use a discard-if after a loop that does ":|" style stuff has terminated, and I need to get rid of the known-zero below.
< 1274118012 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not compiler-obvious, but I guess it's compiler-knowable.
< 1274118054 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the kind of thing I leave to LLVM :-P
< 1274118256 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you handle x at all?
< 1274118269 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And how much)
< 1274118481 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, there's a "todo" comment for it.
< 1274118509 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a "no", then :-P
< 1274118577 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking of handling it pretty minimally. I'm a bit wary on doing things during parsing, since you can then hit the same thing with a different sort of stack context, and then you'll need to reconsider the earlier bits. (Or do code duplication and consider the new case a different thing, which I guess might be more reasonable.)
< 1274118630 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what you mean by a different sort of stack context
< 1274118704 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well... if there's something like "1>1x", I can handle that x pretty easily when parsing; but currently my strategy is that if I see a cell that's been gone through with the same delta, I can always just generate a branch there. Here if someone hits the > with a 2 on the stack, it changes the whole meaning of the "1x" bit, assuming "whole meaning" has been "change delta to (1,1).
< 1274118763 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Recommendation: check the delta as it would be /after/ the instruction, not before
< 1274118826 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see how that help. The bit of code that hits the > hits the "1x" part with exactly the same delta, it's just the context that differs; yet I need to reanalyze it because the x will go a different way. Currently I'd just say "okay, this just jumps to the 1 and I can stop parsing here".
< 1274118838 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, the > fails.
< 1274118842 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My bad.
< 1274118996 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1274119034 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's not a terrible problem, I just like the current way that when I see a (position, delta) that's already been seen before, I can be sure that it can't lead to anything new.
< 1274119042 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I need to eat that food I made now, away for a while.
< 1274119092 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you make basic-block type things like I do you can just add a check for if the terminator is an x
< 1274119553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> Anyway, it was more of a proof-of-concept thing; I think I did it in less than a week. And possibly I'll use it to run fungot permanently at some point. <-- fungot is no fun without self modification
< 1274119554 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: haven't tried the code? or are you still dead? :)
< 1274119578 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't self-modify, does it?
< 1274119583 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even fungot is being snarky these days
< 1274119584 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what was that forth called you where talking about the binary level, then.
< 1274119743 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274120911 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't, no. And I still think it's at least a bit fun.
< 1274121058 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yes, you could test for x-termination; though if you want to determine if an "if" always goes to a particular direction, you'd then still need to break a basic block there, and potentially re-examine all basic blocks you have that terminate into an if that's been short-cutted, if you encounter that block from some other way.
< 1274121126 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get it, gimme an example
< 1274121209 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274121227 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, well... if you have a 1>[...lots of code with no final stack effect...]| you can (on the first parse through it) deduce that the | at the end always goes up, but when you re-enter that block by hitting the > from some other place, you'll need to notice that "hey, this means I have a new potential branch to parse".
< 1274121239 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Granted, this isn't a big hassle if you build those basic blocks while parsing.
< 1274121255 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not planning on doing that kind of optimization myself across basic blocks
< 1274121282 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I'm concerned, when I hit a >, I don't know what's on the stack any more.
< 1274121307 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, if you do it like that, then it will be easier. But it's a bit of a shame that simple direction-modification has that sort of an effect.
< 1274121345 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it's not, because LLVM can compute the dominator tree and do the partial redundancy elimination and whatnot that's required to figure it out later on :-P
< 1274121394 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not very concerned about the unoptimized code quality
< 1274121435 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My parser is a two-stage thing, where I first build a graph that contains a "basic block" for each single cell, then I merge those into actual basic blocks. So it's not so easy to look at a single node and know that it will be terminated by an 'x' in the end. I could've done it so that it built real blocks, and then split those when necessary, of course. Or, like you apparently do, make every <>v^ start a new block?
< 1274121466 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's what I do.
< 1274121496 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And as a bit of a hack, a new block at (0,0) so that code that infinite-loops on the first line doesn't cause the parser to infinite-loop
< 1274121548 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had earlier some sort of overly complicated static-analysis incomplete Funge thing (I think the earlier fungot graphs were from that) which tried to do that sort of analysis; it kept track of known stack cells, and even "known to be nonzero but not exactly what" cells, and "unknown but there's still something known below it" cells, and kept a record of that sort of "stack context" at each point, and when I encountered some code from a new direction, tried to
< 1274121548 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :merge those stacks by keeping the "compatible" information there.
< 1274121548 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i guess it's not as much as the name might be too complicated i think
< 1274121564 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It started to become a bit overcomplicated at some point.
< 1274121573 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't rely on LLVM for that sort of use, unfortunately.
< 1274121618 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not? That's exactly what it tries to figure out when optimizing away loads and phis
< 1274121640 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :migomipo
< 1274121644 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, if your desired end result is human-readable graphs that still contain recognizable Befunge code, only the code flow part represented by a graph.
< 1274121648 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Certainly if you want executable code...
< 1274121684 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, yes. :-)
< 1274121751 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"git log" says I started on a Thursday and stopped the same week's Sunday, so you could call that compiler a bit of a small-scale experiment.
< 1274121785 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1274121812 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274121873 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cannot figure out the short solution in dc
< 1274121887 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did 17 bytes long
< 1274121938 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know whether or not you care, but: I have upgraded 888ASM, now it supports macros and a few other things
< 1274122080 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have never won at any anarchy golf problem that I invented. But I have won at some other ones
< 1274122474 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you go to anime convention this year?
< 1274122687 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/iWKX
< 1274122710 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is what happens when you take Internet from me. I produce silly, not-needed code.
< 1274122719 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_<
< 1274122727 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... That has a bug I just noticed.
< 1274122787 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, minus the obvious bug: http://sprunge.us/ahDN
< 1274122909 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you please tell me what this program is for?
< 1274122960 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It compiles Brainfuck to 386 assembly.
< 1274122993 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. I suppose it is obvious now
< 1274123002 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which assembler?
< 1274123029 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nasm
< 1274123034 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK
< 1274123039 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Linux-only.
< 1274123091 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK
< 1274123114 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1274123172 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The data pointer is in ecx so that I have to do 0 work to make it the argument for the system calls, and the code pointer is in esp so I don't have to move it anywhere when making system calls.
< 1274123239 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other assembler is 888ASM. It doesn't yet have full support for protected mode commands yet
< 1274123368 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274123608 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you ever written a assembler?
< 1274123740 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope.
< 1274123757 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why?
< 1274123771 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never felt like it is all.
< 1274123797 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK
< 1274123833 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like the one I wrote, did you think is good?
< 1274123850 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno, not looked at it much.
< 1274123895 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sprunge seems the good pastebin
< 1274123910 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I looked at the instructions
< 1274123939 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only thing is I don't have curl installed
< 1274123943 0 :uorygl!~Warrigal@rrcs-70-63-156-144.midsouth.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274124104 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps if I write GNU/Linux distribution, I might include a shell-script for "sprunge" in the EXTRA packages set.
< 1274124130 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can you not have curl?
< 1274124143 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's freaking curl!
< 1274124161 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I probably should install curl
< 1274124163 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/prog/888ASM/888asm.c
< 1274124179 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do have wget
< 1274124182 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And netcat
< 1274124267 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now perhaps you can see if the improvements to 888ASM is any good
< 1274124485 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Do you have some reliable information on how much you're allowed to play games with the stack pointer? I was considering that for the Befunge stack in an earlier jitfunge, and I think in that Scheme compiler, but got sidetracked while hunting for documentation. What little I did find is that you could perhaps make it signal-safe with sigaltstack stuff, but beyond that I'm not so sure. X86-64 ABI (my target) for example has that "red zone" thing... w.r.t.
< 1274124485 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : syscalls it seemed reasonably safe on Linux, for both interrupts and the SYSCALL way, but no-one was exactly claiming so.
< 1274124542 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using the system stack is lame, it limits the size too much
< 1274124562 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Sure, but using the ESP/RSP register to point at wherever you want doesn't.
< 1274124594 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, I just got that from reading "stack" and "jitfunge" :-P
< 1274124609 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should've also read the "playing games" part. :p
< 1274124670 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: The esp is a general purpose register.
< 1274124718 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just happens to contain a pointer to a stack under pretty much every ABI, and "call" and "ret" manipulate aforementioned stack.
< 1274124758 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, there's a *lot* of games you can play with that.
< 1274124760 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't mean the syscall interface couldn't require you to have a "nice" stack.
< 1274124788 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Pretty much every ABI" of which syscall may or may not be one
< 1274124796 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The kernel entry point *by necessity* starts by saving all registers and using its own stack.
< 1274124828 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And why would that be a necessity? You already need to prepare registers for the syscall parameters.
< 1274124875 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's the floating point registers, syscall parameters that aren't being used, the base pointer, the stack pointer, the SSE registers, and the MMX registers.
< 1274124929 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty much every kernel, upon being entered, just saves all the registers. And it almost certainly must use its own stack.
< 1274125016 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why?
< 1274125067 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The kernel damned well does not want to assume correctness of anything that it gets passed by userspace.
< 1274125083 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, fair enough.
< 1274125104 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it used the process's stack, you could, for instance, set it up so the kernel will return to a rootkit.
< 1274125112 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you can exploit the fact that you're considered malicious :-P
< 1274125121 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1274125122 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't say I've inspected the internals of so many kernels I'd feel comfortable relying on that; and I found it pretty hard to find good-looking documentation on Linux. I did look at the sources, and it certainly seemed to be pretty conservative like that, but still.
< 1274125168 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274125175 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Linux ABI in particular saves all registers upon entry, even the ones that are just syscall parameters.
< 1274125203 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, do you happen to have handy a reference work for this?
< 1274125215 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's find the entry in /usr/src/linux
< 1274125273 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you mean the code, I think it's arch/x86/kernel/entry_{32,64}.S; but I'd prefer a statement of intent instead of reading the particulars for each architecture that sounds interesting.
< 1274125306 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's also rather macro-heavy code.)
< 1274125334 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I vaguely recall looking at Documentation/, but nothing immediately sprang up. I don't think I used a lot of time for this, though.
< 1274125471 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The register setup is fortunately very cleanly explained in the comment above ENTRY(system_call), that was a nice touch.)
< 1274125871 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274126043 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, sure, it does "start" with
< 1274126044 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    movq    %rsp,PER_CPU_VAR(old_rsp)
< 1274126044 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    movq    PER_CPU_VAR(kernel_stack),%rsp
< 1274126044 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... after some less clean stuff, but the comment also says "if we had a free scratch register we could save the RSP into the stack frame and report it properly in ps. Unfortunately we haven't", which I might even think would refer to cobblering something in the userspace's stack frame.
< 1274126203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone here have any experience with building cross compilers?
< 1274126211 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish alise turned up on weekdays...
< 1274126224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :debian used to provide a package for it during woody. but hasn't since
< 1274126226 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cross compilers are not very different from any other kind of compilers
< 1274126227 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so does alise
< 1274126228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(to this arch)
< 1274126241 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you meant "building" as in "compiling"
< 1274126246 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well... I need to use outdated binutils and gcc versions for the thing to even support this arch...
< 1274126252 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or "setting up"
< 1274126259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, getting a working toolchain
< 1274126265 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from a bunch of gcc/binutils tarballs
< 1274126267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and patches
< 1274126269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is what I mean
< 1274126292 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've used that tool for it. Or two tools, in fact. I just can't ever remember the names.
< 1274126303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I'm stuck at binutils 2.16.1 and gcc 3.4.6 as the last versions supporting this arch
< 1274126334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I have no idea where to start with building a cross toolchain
< 1274126359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :documentation is very bad and bitrot ensures that I'm very unlikely to find anyone to update it
< 1274126384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the entire community on this arch is half-404 nowdays
< 1274126386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/
< 1274126426 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :upstream vendor? No longer has any info on this product at all...
< 1274126427 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I used http://www.kegel.com/crosstool/ several years ago, but it might be somewhat out of date, and probably won't cover your particular situation out-of-the-box.
< 1274126459 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What arch?
< 1274126469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, RCX
< 1274126482 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :atm I'm trying to figure out target triplet
< 1274126491 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274126496 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are you interested in it
< 1274126496 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then there's buildroot, which is mainly interesting if you want a uClibc-based toolchain for a Linux system, but could do some other useful things too.
< 1274126505 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it is either h8300-hitachi-hms or h8300-hitachi-coff
< 1274126513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is some contradiction on it
< 1274126521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah didn't ais523 mess with cross compiling before?
< 1274126529 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1274126535 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have an ARM toolchain on here right now
< 1274126541 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ofc gcc-bf is a crosscompiler
< 1274126542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what is the basic steps required in setting up a cross toolchain from a binutils and gcc source tarball
< 1274126550 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it would be ridiculous to make it native
< 1274126562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh and I need to use old versions... since the arch is no longer supported
< 1274126567 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see, I've never actually set up a cross /toolchain/ by hand before, just the individual compiler
< 1274126582 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ARM toolchain was generated via a rather complicated makefile
< 1274126584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I need linked and C compiler at least.
< 1274126585 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which had wget commands in it
< 1274126595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ might be needed later on (ugh)
< 1274126603 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the compiler, if it's gcc, you just need a weird set of configure options
< 1274126623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I need to use binutils 2.16.1 and gcc 3.4.6. Last versions supporting h8300-hitachi-hms
< 1274126640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I need to apply a bunch of patches
< 1274126664 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds fun
< 1274126671 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are aware that gcc's build system is insane, right?
< 1274126686 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes and I do know how to handle it for "normal" native builds
< 1274126690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that is out of question here
< 1274126706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, h8300-hitachi-hms is the triplet for the RCX you see
< 1274126728 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, in theory the only change you have to make is to give configure options like this: --build=i686-linux-gnu --host=i686-linux-gnu --target=h8300-hitachi-hms
< 1274126741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :half of the relevant pages are 404 or "see relevant links for <not very relevant part of domain name>" nowdays...
< 1274126763 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to give all three when doing any sort of cross-compilation, whether you're crosscompiling gcc or straightcompiling a crosscompiler or even crosscompiling a crosscompiler
< 1274126773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I don't have any libc for this btw... As in, the OS I will cross compile will provide a very stripped down set of header files
< 1274126788 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could use newlib
< 1274126809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well why? I already get stdlib.h and a few more...
< 1274126811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and
< 1274126812 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which implements the whole libc in terms of about 15 system calls, which you need to give by hand if the OS doesn't do them itself
< 1274126818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't like there is any console IO on it
< 1274126827 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it depends on how much libc you need
< 1274126827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I'm very limited in RAM on the RCX...
< 1274126834 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it have sprintf, for instance? and do you need it?
< 1274126841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no I don't need that :P
< 1274126851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I don't need any string handling at all in fact
< 1274126867 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, what *do* you need?
< 1274126879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, floating point emulation, which is provided.
< 1274126891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, and bare access to the hardware
< 1274126898 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is also provided
< 1274126905 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no MMU or such on this thing after all
< 1274126909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it is 16 bit. not 32-bit
< 1274126923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or 8-bit perhaps... it is somewhat unclear...)
< 1274126958 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about gcc prefix and such for a cross toolchain?
< 1274126980 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it tries to find the binutils by executable name
< 1274126998 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, it'll look for h8300-hitachi-hms-ld for the linker
< 1274127003 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and complain if it can't find it
< 1274127010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, lets assume I want to put it in /home/local/lego... My experience of gcc seems to show it takes lot of effort to make gcc use rpath or such... I have a stored command line for the make call for llvm gcc somewhere iirc...
< 1274127036 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc mostly hardcodes configure info into the resulting executable
< 1274127046 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then does insane stuff with collect2
< 1274127069 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which you may be able to stub out for something like bf-gcc, but which is needed if you want to do C++
< 1274127076 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I think some of this is from bootstrapping...
< 1274127079 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc also provides an alternative method
< 1274127088 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and ofc, cross-compilers aren't bootstrapped)
< 1274127089 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, there is the risk I will need to do C++.... as much as it pains me
< 1274127114 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the alternative method for getting C++ constructors working, though, I sort-of understand the principle of it but not how it works in practice or how to get gcc to do it
< 1274127133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah a bash script generating the gcc build commands...
< 1274127134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make LDFLAGS="-Wl,-O1,--hash-style=gnu,-rpath,${BASEDIR}/lib" LDFLAGS_FOR_TARGET="-Wl,-O1,--hash-style=gnu,-rpath,${BASEDIR}/lib" BOOT_LDFLAGS="-Wl,-O1,-rpath,${BASEDIR}/lib"
< 1274127141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is what the line from the heredoc looks like
< 1274127149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the relevant configure flags aren't used
< 1274127180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I will be doing freestanding development anyway
< 1274127183 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no hosted
< 1274127184 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, the documentation for the way gcc's build system works is a FIXME
< 1274127225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I assume I should compile binutils first?
< 1274127231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how does one go about that?
< 1274127232 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you compile them simultaneously, somehow
< 1274127240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same target/build/host flags?
< 1274127242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what?
< 1274127245 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's something about the build system for one involving the other
< 1274127263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, eh... where is this documented?
< 1274127268 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or how do I do it at least
< 1274127281 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to find where it's documented
< 1274127291 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :binutils-doc is a promisingly /named/ package, at least
< 1274127296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1274127307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I'm not on a debian system
< 1274127312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that isn't very helpful
< 1274127324 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, but I can read it and tell you what it says
< 1274127336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, or point me to upstream
< 1274127342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I just thought you knew how since you had been messing with it
< 1274127359 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not with binutils
< 1274127363 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote them myself for gcc-bf
< 1274127416 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, some of the docs relating to the stuff I want to use this for says stuff like "this need at least gcc 2.95, egcs will not work"
< 1274127419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stuff like that
< 1274127424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really brings you back a lot of years
< 1274127460 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but gcc /is/ egcs
< 1274127508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh it said "you'll have to build and compile gcc 2.95 instead of the older egcs" to be specific
< 1274127530 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ls -1 /usr/src/binutils/patches/ | wc -l
< 1274127532 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23
< 1274127537 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a good sign...
< 1274127562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ouch
< 1274127573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I need very very specific patches myself here so...
< 1274127599 0 :impomatic!~chatzilla@87.113.249.101 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274127603 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi :-)
< 1274127608 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi impomatic
< 1274127611 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION untars
< 1274127614 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, hi impomatic
< 1274127617 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't seen you around for a while
< 1274127643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw this cross compiler had a package back in either woody or the version before woody. I haven't been able to find out which. It no longer has such a package though...
< 1274127652 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been here a few times recently :)
< 1274127663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, which one was debian 2.x?
< 1274127689 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea
< 1274127696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah seems to have been pre-woody
< 1274127697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch
< 1274127697 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: yep, but I haven't been here all the time
< 1274127701 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we must have kept missing each other
< 1274127706 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either that, or I wasn't paying attention
< 1274127718 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't say anything worth paying attention to!
< 1274127722 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what were its dependencies like?
< 1274127761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm I haven't been able to find package, just mention on web.archive.org that such a package existed on that debian version
< 1274127793 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and it is supposed to work with a newer gcc. I don't think it is feasible to compile gcc 2.x without bootstrapping nowdays
< 1274127803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while I'm pretty sure 3.x isn't too bad
< 1274127828 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :earlier gccs combined just fine on the compilers of the day; modern compilers are more standards-compliant and so should have an easier time
< 1274127843 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could poke at the crosstools scripts, I think they were pretty comprehensible.
< 1274127854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway I need to figure out how on earth you build binutils for h8300-hitachi-hms. And gcc
< 1274127872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all I want for now is binutils and gcc. I don't care about newlib, g++ or anything like that for now
< 1274127880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, *googles*
< 1274127891 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster:
< 1274127891 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> I think I used http://www.kegel.com/crosstool/ several years ago, but it might be somewhat out of date, and probably won't cover your particular situation out-of-the-box.
< 1274127927 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "Links" section in the crosstool howto might be useful too.
< 1274127937 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone know the difference between the different editions of Programming Pearls?
< 1274127941 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes found it
< 1274127948 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same question, The Little LISPer?
< 1274128043 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: As for the second suggestion (buildroot), it does build an embedded-linux toolchain, but if it happens to work (a big if), you can mostly just yoink the GCC out of it and use it for freestanding compiling with the usual -nostdlibs and perhaps other flags. You might run into problems in that it really wants to build a C library too.
< 1274128057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, no it won't. This is not ELF
< 1274128078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is coff. And definitely not linux in any way. No MMU, < 32 bits and so on
< 1274128126 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ELFness doesn't matter; it's not like Linux's somehow restricted to ELF binaries. And in any case, it doesn't matter that you can't actually build the linux parts for it, the cross-toolchain parts might still work. Still, it's a bit of an abuse.
< 1274128148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, indeed...
< 1274128180 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be honest, I think the GCC build process sort of expects to have some sort of C library for your target too. I'm not sure why, and how badly; at least the existing cross-compiler-compilation instructions tend to assume so.
< 1274128207 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah found something maybe useful here...
< 1274128216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :newlib seems to feature... which is confusing
< 1274128271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait " You may also want to download newlib, though it's not required for BrickOS."
< 1274128334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this guide, while not targeting C in the end, (but some language called cyclone) seems to at least discuss a recent gcc version
< 1274128347 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://gcc.gnu.org/wiki/Building_Cross_Toolchains_with_gcc  is also there, I remember seeing it before when googling, but it's far from comprehensive or conclusive or other c-words.
< 1274128376 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might even call it completely content-free.
< 1274128381 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: buildroot's what I used for the arm-linux toolchain, but it was massively complex and confusing
< 1274128388 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really understand how it worked
< 1274128405 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: well at least it has one c-word then
< 1274128408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I have high hopes for http://www.cs.utah.edu/~regehr/research/BrickOS-Cyclone/INSTALL.html
< 1274128408 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are a couple of links, anyhow.
< 1274128451 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A separate cross-binutils is generally easy to compile, though -- possibly because the build system is not terrible? But if you want C and not just an assembler...
< 1274128497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, at least these instructions doesn't a) discuss cygwin b) refer to outdated, no longer existing debian packages as the only described way of getting the toolchain
< 1274128516 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Buildroot tries to be very automatic; I built something with it, too, and I don't have any clue what happened, except that there was a faint smell of ozone at the end.
< 1274128521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> fizzie: well at least it has one c-word then <-- which one?
< 1274128529 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"content-free", I think.
< 1274128536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1274128607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh btw I saw some wonderful build system yesterday. Custom makefiles broken at make -j2, oh and looked for a specific file in /usr/local/include and another one in /home/<developer's user name presumably>/somepath
< 1274128641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sad thing is that the actual software is nice and well documented in general (not the code though, many files with no comments at all)
< 1274128815 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to presume he knows absolutely nothing about how to do makefiles.
< 1274128895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> anyway, in theory the only change you have to make is to give configure options like this: --build=i686-linux-gnu --host=i686-linux-gnu --target=h8300-hitachi-hms
< 1274128905 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how do I figure out the native triplet
< 1274128914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is some confusion for x86_64 linux
< 1274128928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu vs. x86_64-gnu-linux-gnu
< 1274128929 0 :FIQ!~FIQ@unaffiliated/fiq JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274128938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both are seen, so it is unclear which to use
< 1274128941 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me check, I'm pretty sure there's a simple way
< 1274129052 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc -dumpmachine
< 1274129055 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a native compiler
< 1274129098 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1274129105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :desktop:
< 1274129107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ gcc -dumpmachine
< 1274129107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu
< 1274129116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :laptop:
< 1274129117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ gcc -dumpmachine
< 1274129117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86_64-linux-gnu
< 1274129127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is that a quadraplet on my desktop?
< 1274129136 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a triplet no matter /how/ many parts it is
< 1274129141 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :along the same lines as an ETLA
< 1274129146 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ETLA?
< 1274129154 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :extended three-letter acronym
< 1274129155 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like "ETLA"
< 1274129158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1274129162 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274129185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... lets see.. ah this gcc is so old it uses PREFIX/man instead of PREFIX/share/man
< 1274129194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though that was only fixed quite recently
< 1274129212 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274129220 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274129222 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274129227 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274129346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, for gcc:
< 1274129347 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  --x-includes=DIR        X include files are in DIR
< 1274129347 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  --x-libraries=DIR       X library files are in DIR
< 1274129349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any idea why?
< 1274129371 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't tell if it's using X as a variable there, or referring to X the windowing system
< 1274129379 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no
< 1274129412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1274129450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so does this look reasonable to you (yeah it seems you should co-build indeed...):
< 1274129452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :../gcc-3.4.6/configure --prefix=/home/arvid/local/lego --infodir=/home/arvid/local/lego/share/info --mandir=/home/arvid/local/lego/share/man --enable-languages=c --target=h8300-hitachi-hms --build=x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu --host=x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu
< 1274129475 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks plausible
< 1274129515 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now lets hope it doesn't complain about no newlib (haven't been able to find right version of newlib, and I don't need it for the stuff I'm doing it seems)
< 1274129589 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It working just like that sounds unlikely.
< 1274129602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, which bit?
< 1274129616 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I followed http://www.cs.utah.edu/~regehr/research/BrickOS-Cyclone/INSTALL.html basically
< 1274129635 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but where would we be if you could just follow instructions and have stuff work?
< 1274129636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway it is doing the second runs of configure, that is after you type make
< 1274129636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :atm
< 1274129657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, believe me if I had been able to locate those instructions earlier I wouldn't have asked here....
< 1274129666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was quite hard to find
< 1274129670 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that happened when I compiled tar from source earlier today, it shocked me
< 1274129683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :checking assembler for .balign and .p2align... /home/arvid/src/lego/brickOS/toolchain/gcc-3.4.6/gcc/configure: line 10246: test: -ge: unary operator expected
< 1274129684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1274129684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :checking assembler for .p2align with maximum skip... /home/arvid/src/lego/brickOS/toolchain/gcc-3.4.6/gcc/configure: line 10284: test: -ge: unary operator expected
< 1274129684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1274129684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :checking assembler for working .subsection -1... no
< 1274129686 0 :FIQ!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1274129686 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :checking assembler for .weak... /home/arvid/src/lego/brickOS/toolchain/gcc-3.4.6/gcc/configure: line 10370: test: -ge: unary operator expected
< 1274129689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1274129691 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh
< 1274129693 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks nasty
< 1274129697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it did just continue anyway
< 1274129723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and my /bin/sh is bash... so no idea
< 1274129735 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An empty something there, I'd guess.
< 1274129745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah... but that looks quite bad though
< 1274129751 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty sure .p2algin does work...
< 1274129761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/home/arvid/src/lego/brickOS/toolchain/build-h8300/bfd/../../gcc-3.4.6/bfd/cache.c:440: undefined reference to `unlink_if_ordinary'
< 1274129763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh
< 1274129895 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: which assembler is this?
< 1274129925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc -W -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes -g -O2 -o size size.o bucomm.o version.o filemode.o  ../bfd/.libs/libbfd.a ../libiberty/libiberty.a
< 1274129925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bucomm.o: In function `make_tempname':
< 1274129925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/home/arvid/src/lego/brickOS/toolchain/build-h8300/binutils/../../gcc-3.4.6/binutils/bucomm.c:425: warning: the use of `mktemp' is dangerous, better use `mkstemp'
< 1274129925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :../bfd/.libs/libbfd.a(cache.o): In function `bfd_open_file':
< 1274129926 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders which solution for cross-compiles is neater; rewriting half of configure.in by hand, or calling configure.ac-generated configures recursively
< 1274129931 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're the gcc and ick solutions, respectively
< 1274129932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, must be host I think
< 1274129944 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm pretty sure the ick solution is the best one there to make it work with autotools
< 1274129964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, google indicates it is related to mixing versions of libiberty
< 1274129971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(maybe)
< 1274129992 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I can believe that
< 1274129999 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link a static libiberty.a and use that?
< 1274130019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well it tries to link the one it built it seems
< 1274130028 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why it is using a version that lacks that I don't know
< 1274130036 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then how are you mixing versions?
< 1274130104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah missed the step about rm -rf libiberty from gcc and ln -s binutils versions
< 1274130111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grep indicates that the binutils one has it
< 1274130119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets try again
< 1274130145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, at least gcc 3.x doesn't take quite as long to compile :D
< 1274130386 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1274130407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the lines I get those "quote issue" warnings from are like:
< 1274130413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat >>confdefs.h <<_ACEOF
< 1274130414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define HAVE_AS_GOTOFF_IN_DATA `if test $gcc_cv_as_ix86_gotoff_in_data = yes; then echo 1; else echo 0; fi`
< 1274130414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_ACEOF
< 1274130719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another one:
< 1274130722 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    if test $gcc_cv_gas_vers -ge `expr \( \( 2 \* 1000 \) + 6 \) \* 1000 + 0`
< 1274130722 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  then gcc_cv_as_balign_and_p2align=yes
< 1274130722 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fi
< 1274130730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that has some horrible formatting
< 1274131208 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: underflow
< 1274131227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah tracked it down to the line: checking what assembler to use... expr: syntax error
< 1274131289 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not surprised, given the formatting
< 1274131342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well it was a different expr
< 1274131357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and now I know how it checks unbuilt gas version
< 1274131368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, by grepping the configure of it
< 1274131373 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION facepalms
< 1274131374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which fails here for some reason
< 1274131388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, it gets an empty string for all the files it tries
< 1274131398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for f in $gcc_cv_as_bfd_srcdir/configure \
< 1274131398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :         $gcc_cv_as_gas_srcdir/configure \
< 1274131398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :         $gcc_cv_as_gas_srcdir/configure.in \
< 1274131398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :         $gcc_cv_as_gas_srcdir/Makefile.in ; do
< 1274131398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  gcc_cv_gas_version=`grep '^VERSION=[0-9]*\.[0-9]*' $f`
< 1274131401 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it a \r\n vs \n problem?
< 1274131408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[logic to test for found string]
< 1274131415 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I doubt that in this case
< 1274131418 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, apparently not given that grep string
< 1274131451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh there is an extra space in this version
< 1274131452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the start
< 1274131456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like:
< 1274131460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : VERSION=...
< 1274131477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I can't even imagine why anyone would break it like that
< 1274131480 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have the wrong version of VERSION?
< 1274131490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, XD
< 1274131501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :configure-# Define the identity of the package.
< 1274131501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :configure- PACKAGE=bfd
< 1274131501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :configure: VERSION=2.16.1
< 1274131530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh and I'm editing configure directly. I don't think I want to try autogen.sh in gcc...
< 1274131547 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am of the opinion that the normal usage of quote marks needs revision.
< 1274131557 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: what new usage would you suggest?
< 1274131569 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what about this
< 1274131575 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of `quoting' words `like this'
< 1274131586 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's $(quote' words $)like this'
< 1274131622 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, in English at least, quotation marks change the context in which a sentence is interpreted, rather than changing its interpretation altogether,
< 1274131673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc_cv_gas_major_version=`expr "$gcc_cv_gas_version" : "VERSION=\([0-9]*\)"`
< 1274131677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, tell me how this works
< 1274131684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't figure out what the syntax is even
< 1274131686 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :expr? : ?
< 1274131708 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's a string compare?
< 1274131712 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in some really old expr?
< 1274131817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, not the one I have here
< 1274131882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw need to do the same fix for ld
< 1274131887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it checks that version the same way
< 1274131894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now this might compile. Lets hope
< 1274132038 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it is still broken
< 1274132041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not quite as badly
< 1274132270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what do you think of this:
< 1274132271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc_cv_gas_version=`grep '^ *VERSION=[0-9]*\.[0-9]*' $f | sed 's/^ //'`
< 1274132281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it breaks with space at start
< 1274132284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the line after
< 1274132388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to work
< 1274132439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION starts make again and goes to eat something
< 1274132469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I will notify you of any more wtf when I get back (and I did check all configure for similar greps... only in two places, both in same file)
< 1274132500 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm well aware that the gcc build system is wtf
< 1274132597 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well first time I seen you facepalm
< 1274132608 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually did so in RL
< 1274132610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway aren't more modern ones, 4.4 and later slightly saner?
< 1274132614 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1274132621 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, maybe, they're insane enough though
< 1274132625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, at least it installs man pages in the right dir by default
< 1274132634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in PREFIX/share any more
< 1274132636 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sufficiently so that comparison becomes meaningless
< 1274132643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1274132645 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see why manpage location is worrying at all compared to the other stuff it does
< 1274132647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in PREFIX/man any more
< 1274132649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but DATAPREFIX/man
< 1274132651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is better
< 1274132659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it isn't tidy :/
< 1274132687 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: actually, this system /has/ a manpage in /usr/man
< 1274132688 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for gocr
< 1274132693 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, for what?
< 1274132694 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks like the package got lost somehow
< 1274132697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also mine has none
< 1274132706 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, confused
< 1274132715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what is gocr?
< 1274132733 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an OCR program, I think
< 1274132735 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never used it
< 1274132787 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1274133060 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I got an ICE now
< 1274133078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know which compiler
< 1274133088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait
< 1274133089 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xgcc?
< 1274133092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the fuck is it doing
< 1274133095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cross compiling!?
< 1274133098 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ^
< 1274133189 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's building libgcc
< 1274133193 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you wanted floating-point emulation, right?
< 1274133193 0 :hiato!~fdulu@41-135-6-154.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274133199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has to compile that somehow
< 1274133204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well no that is done in the OS -_-
< 1274133208 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1274133212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why is it called xgcc?
< 1274133213 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, 64-bit multiply then
< 1274133221 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Floating-point is for cissies.
< 1274133222 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: to avoid nameclashes, I think
< 1274133224 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the new one
< 1274133232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, this would need a helper for 32-bit addition...
< 1274133240 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that too
< 1274133279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, _muldi3.o ?
< 1274133328 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: muldi3 is (uint32_t)a = (uint32_t)b * (uint32_t)c
< 1274133336 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the primitives that GCC breaks programs down into
< 1274133349 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently the operation doesn't exist on the target platform, so gcc's making emulation code for it
< 1274133361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see
< 1274133374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but I'm not going to work with numbers wider than 16 bits anyway
< 1274133405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how comes you know what _muldi3 is?
< 1274133406 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then that bit of libgcc won't be linked
< 1274133413 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because I've written a gcc backend?
< 1274133420 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you remember them all?
< 1274133422 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if muldi3 wasn't implemented, it just wouldn't work
< 1274133430 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the names follow a pretty consistent pattern
< 1274133446 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MULtiply Doublewidth Integers
< 1274133456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1274133459 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, di is 64, not 32
< 1274133464 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and the 3 is for?
< 1274133466 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :si is 32, hi is 16, qi is 8
< 1274133468 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 3 is 3 params
< 1274133474 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two input, one output
< 1274133493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well 64 bit math is just out of question on this thing anyway
< 1274133500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :float will probably be 32 bit at most
< 1274133507 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so that's the 64-bit multiply I mentioned earlier
< 1274133511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I may develop 16 bit float libs instead of using the OS
< 1274133524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since space is really at a premium here...
< 1274133543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I have no idea what do do about the ICE though...
< 1274133552 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :debug it?
< 1274133558 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had to debug loads of those things
< 1274133568 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more annoying was when I got the compiler into an infinite loop
< 1274133570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well gcc 3.x is hardly supported any longer
< 1274133573 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@150.140.227.55 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274133583 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you wouldn't believe how easy it is to define something in terms of itself
< 1274133594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1274133600 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, in that RTL language or such?
< 1274133608 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even in C
< 1274133612 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is what libgcc is written in
< 1274133615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, in C I don't believe it
< 1274133622 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine trying to implement a = b * c
< 1274133625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1274133627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1274133628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1274133629 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not in terms of multiplication
< 1274133647 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can't just use a loop because that would be inefficient
< 1274133655 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you use narrower multiplies, and bitshifts all over the place
< 1274133668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, if we assume c >= 0 atm: a=0; while(c--) a+=b; ?
< 1274133675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need similar code for c<0
< 1274133681 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: massively inefficient
< 1274133682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with some stuff changed
< 1274133686 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well okay
< 1274133687 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you wouldn't want every multiplication in a whole program to compile into that
< 1274133709 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I implemented a 32-bit unsigned integer multiply in JavaScript a while back
< 1274133729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I don't want 64 bit arithmetics on a system which is this cramped anyway!
< 1274133733 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the fun bit there: JavaScript's only numeric type is the double-precision float, and it can't store all 64-bit integers accurately)
< 1274133745 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: they don't cost if you don't use them
< 1274133752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true
< 1274133754 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, JS.
< 1274133762 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hatehatehatehatehate JS.
< 1274133777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't hate js before. Now I do
< 1274133788 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I rather like it; its library support, OTOH, is awful
< 1274133796 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me find a snippet of source code
< 1274133796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just disliked it before
< 1274133823 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hatehatehatehatehate JS because some idiot in my school decided it was a good language in which to teach programming.
< 1274133831 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On IE 5, no less!
< 1274133850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch
< 1274133859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't make js itself as bad though
< 1274133867 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is the fault of that idiot
< 1274133883 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but I'm extremely soured on it.
< 1274133933 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The weak typing is probably the bit I find most jarring, though.
< 1274133936 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :function arraysort(a) { /* Can we use a built-in sort method? */ if (Array.sort) return Array.sort(a); /* If not, use quicksort. */ if (a.length <= 1) return a; var pivot = a[0]; var b = new Array; var c = new Array; for (var i = 1; i < a.length; i++) { if (a[i] < pivot) b[b.length] = a[i]; else c[c.length] = a[i]; } b = arraysort(b); c = arraysort(c); b[b.length] = pivot; for (var i = 0; i < c.length; i++) b[b.length] = c[i]; return b; }
< 1274133963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... weak static typing is that possible?
< 1274133966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I guess it is
< 1274133969 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but has it been done?
< 1274133981 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously a quicksort isn't quite optimal, but it was easy to write and I know the data it runs on isn't quicksort-pathological
< 1274133984 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much weaker than C that is
< 1274133986 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And when we write programs to verify that an input is in a range of numbers, *we don't need to verify the number*.
< 1274133991 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Perl
< 1274133994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, heh
< 1274133997 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :statically typed scalar/array/hash
< 1274134005 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, too strongly typed
< 1274134012 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My teacher has accepted programs that will take "a fish" as a valid voting age.
< 1274134014 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simultaneously, it has strong dynamic typing
< 1274134017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, bash is dynamically typed but very weakly typed
< 1274134020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh?
< 1274134061 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: at any given moment, a scalar is, say, a string, or a reference to a hash, or a reference to an IO::Handle object, or whatever
< 1274134064 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, semi-strong
< 1274134094 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it doesn't help that most built-in operators force contexts on things
< 1274134108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, everything is a string... that would work for very weak static typing
< 1274134121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait no
< 1274134124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't
< 1274134125 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, with that reasoning, Unlambda
< 1274134128 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be painful
< 1274134130 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's statically typed
< 1274134133 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it only has one type
< 1274134143 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus you can type-check it at compile time
< 1274134148 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: brb restart for net issues
< 1274134149 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Tcl represents everything as a string, doesn't it?
< 1274134151 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, "everything is an 2D array of integers"
< 1274134153 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about that
< 1274134158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, not internally iirc
< 1274134181 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's just an optimisation, it doesn't affect language semantics
< 1274134191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1274134192 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in unlambda, characters are second-class values
< 1274134207 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a Haskell implementation chooses to store "1024" as the number 1024 with some sort of "this is a string" tag, it doesn't make it any less strongly typed
< 1274134252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, major wtf of gcc: fixincludes
< 1274134272 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it tries to make platform include files more standards-compliant
< 1274134275 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, especially since it doesn't just do std* headers but all headers for god knows what
< 1274134287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well since when is X11 includes "platform includes"?
< 1274134294 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to WP, JS has weak typing?
< 1274134301 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/home/arvid/src/lego/brickOS/toolchain/build-native/binutils/ranlib ./libgcc.a
< 1274134301 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/lib/libc.so.6: file not recognized: File format not recognized
< 1274134303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay
< 1274134303 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274134306 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it just me, or are the ConwayLife forums broken?
< 1274134313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now that was cryptic (trying to build a native one atm)
< 1274134318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(since that was recommended somewhere)
< 1274134361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh duh huge if block
< 1274134376 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Fine for me.
< 1274134395 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :For Game of Life discussion go to #b3s23  | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D
< 1274134413 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And please come back to #b3s23, it's lonely.
< 1274134442 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION accidentally joined #b2s23
< 1274134451 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: try to run file on it
< 1274134493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, on what? libc.so.6=
< 1274134497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/=/?/
< 1274134513 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ranlib, probably
< 1274134515 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ file /lib/libc.so.6
< 1274134515 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/lib/libc.so.6: symbolic link to `libc-2.11.1.so'
< 1274134521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ file -L /lib/libc.so.6
< 1274134521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/lib/libc.so.6: ELF 64-bit LSB shared object, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.18, not stripped
< 1274134528 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if your libc got overwritten, you're in really serious trouble
< 1274134551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it wasn't ranlib
< 1274134555 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just looked like it
< 1274134567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/lib/libc.so.6: file not recognized: File format not recognized
< 1274134567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
< 1274134571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that may tell more
< 1274134588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know which ld
< 1274134600 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or which collect2?
< 1274134610 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Try executing libc.so.6
< 1274134637 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well duh that works... yes
< 1274134641 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would executing a libc even /do/?
< 1274134650 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Call its main() function.
< 1274134651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the usual version info
< 1274134657 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok
< 1274134663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ /lib/libc.so.6
< 1274134663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU C Library stable release version 2.11.1, by Roland McGrath et al.
< 1274134664 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All shared libraries on Linux are executables which happen to export functions.
< 1274134667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[a lot more]
< 1274134675 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU C Library (EGLIBC) stable release version 2.10.1, by Roland McGrath et al.
< 1274134681 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: on Windows too
< 1274134687 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of them don't happen to have a main function, so they crash.
< 1274134692 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'cept you can't run them normally
< 1274134707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, s/some/most/
< 1274134720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, only one I know that has it is some glibc ones
< 1274134725 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yeah, but Windows doesn't have shared libraries. More of a on-demand statically-linked-at-runtime thing. :P
< 1274134736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, and that is libc and ld iirc
< 1274134740 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Typically, just libc and bizarre things.
< 1274134747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, other ones, like libm segfault
< 1274134747 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that's a bizarre way to put it
< 1274134754 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can load DLLs at runtime, without issue
< 1274134756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, which bizarre ones?
< 1274134781 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It does this by relocating the libraries. The whole thing.
< 1274134808 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems sufficiently insane for Windows
< 1274134811 0 :migomipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274134848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :new idea: static only compiler
< 1274134865 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just pass -static to GCC.
< 1274134872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, --disable-shared you mean
< 1274134879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I'm *trying to compile gcc*
< 1274134882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it isn't working
< 1274134883 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1274134891 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooj.
< 1274134897 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/Ooj/Ooh.
< 1274134917 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274134921 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
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< 1274134947 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: null
< 1274134973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, it is a very old gcc. I'm not really surprised
< 1274134985 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was the last thing I said?
< 1274134997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, <pikhq> ais523: It does this by relocating the libraries. The whole thing.
< 1274135007 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the library is in memory but not at a usable address, it will load another copy of the library into memory and relocate it.
< 1274135008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> that seems sufficiently insane for Windows
< 1274135048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, even on 64-bit? Where you have cheap RIP relative addressing
< 1274135066 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux does this, but only for non-PIC libraries. Which straight-up do not work not-x86.
< 1274135080 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Pretty sure it does that on 64-bit too.
< 1274135085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, -_-
< 1274135102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, also this could work on other platforms for linux too. Would be insane however
< 1274135118 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl
< 1274135152 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was only ever supported on x86 because a) PIC code is slower on x86, b) a.out shared libraries couldn't handle PIC code.
< 1274135172 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such a legacy thing.
< 1274135181 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1274135218 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PIC?
< 1274135225 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds .. COBOL-esque
< 1274135234 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure you're referring to something else
< 1274135235 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Position-Independent Code.
< 1274135257 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I.E. it can be loaded anywhere in memory.
< 1274135262 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I ever share the story of why I learned COBOL?
< 1274135272 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very easy on x86_64.
< 1274135275 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, if reading a book on == learning)
< 1274135281 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As you can just address relative to the instruction pointer.
< 1274135328 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ends up eating another register on x86.
< 1274135328 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I haven't heard it
< 1274135349 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some reason, some book I read mentioned CORBA, which I knew nothing [and still know nothing] about
< 1274135367 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, some time later, I'm by a bookstore, and I see a book, COBOL For Dummies
< 1274135373 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah; how many registers end up being useful on x86 for shared library code?
< 1274135375 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm.
< 1274135379 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eax, ebx, ecx.
< 1274135387 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I buy it, not realizing that what I wanted was CORBA, not COBOL
< 1274135412 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CORBA for dyslexics
< 1274135429 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Object_Request_Broker_Architecture
< 1274135437 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The magic of Google.
< 1274135471 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1274135562 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274135583 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274136927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so
< 1274136932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :static build did not help
< 1274136933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh
< 1274137153 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
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< 1274137501 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
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< 1274137750 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
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< 1274138164 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274138523 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274138961 0 :calamari!~calamari@ip70-162-184-104.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274139260 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274139285 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274139296 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should probably attempt to understand DVCS
< 1274139976 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274140264 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1274140442 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: DVCSes are amazing
< 1274140487 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DVCS has to take relativity of events into account. :-)
< 1274141539 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274141806 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://z7.comicostrich.com/comic.php?cdate=20050530
< 1274142526 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1274142528 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1274142734 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274143380 0 :Alex3012!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274145020 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
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< 1274146036 0 :ws!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Grab life by the BitchX
< 1274146310 0 :Gregor-L!~Gregor@67-129-37-226.dia.static.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274146395 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Gregor
< 1274148280 0 :augur!~augur@c-98-218-226-149.hsd1.dc.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274148297 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274150737 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night
< 1274151360 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1274151411 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274151464 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone here played with the Gammaplex interpreter?
< 1274151763 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gammaplex?
< 1274153575 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1274154094 0 :Corninthekitten!corninthek@cpe-75-83-215-64.socal.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274154134 0 :Corninthekitten!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1274155692 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274155908 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1274157779 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
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< 1274158214 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
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< 1274159306 0 :gm|lap!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274159757 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274160289 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1274160341 0 :Rugxulo!~user@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274160353 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if AnMaster ever got the cross compiler going
< 1274160518 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274160969 0 :augur!~augur@c-68-54-80-152.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274161316 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1274162865 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/music/op13/GRegor-op13-wipp2.ogg
< 1274164949 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274165391 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I am leaving. You are about to explode.
< 1274165638 0 :marchdown!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1274165748 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274165929 0 :marchdown!~marchdown@ppp79-139-170-103.pppoe.spdop.ru JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274166572 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274166711 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1274167852 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wish I had my earbuds right now.
< 1274167875 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274167972 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesome! I can't play downloads and do other things at the same time.
< 1274168376 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274169183 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1274169599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
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< 1274169723 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274169741 0 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274170287 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Bye
< 1274171121 0 :MigoMipo!~John@62.119.155.253 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274171646 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1274172177 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: null
< 1274172721 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274172738 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: that was pretty good music
< 1274173735 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1274175214 0 :clog!nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274175313 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*growl*
< 1274175321 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
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< 1274176027 0 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274177224 0 :hiato!~fdulu@41-135-6-154.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1274185062 0 :cheater2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1274185596 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Later
< 1274185776 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: bbl
< 1274186232 0 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274186282 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would an aperiodic pattern moving through space have a speed?
< 1274186529 0 :cheater2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why wouldn't it?
< 1274186562 0 :cheater2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you define speed?
< 1274186726 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's defined in terms of how many generations it takes for a pattern to translate itself how far.
< 1274187022 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@ix.ceid.upatras.gr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274187038 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1274187338 0 :Slereah!~jews@ANantes-259-1-138-197.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274187536 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274189026 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there even example of aperioidic pattern that moves?
< 1274189162 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pattern that could be interesting: 1) Aperioidic and 2) coordinate limits for some axis tend to same direction without bound.
< 1274189263 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274189273 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that rake that fires ships with component in direction of motion would satisfy that...
< 1274189681 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1274191932 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://superosity.keenspot.com/d/20050304.html http://superosity.keenspot.com/sup20100516-big.jpg
< 1274192033 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~chatzilla@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274192102 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi Phantom_Hoover. Read logs?
< 1274192110 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No...
< 1274192120 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reads logs
< 1274192273 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: There's a pattern that makes the whole universe aperiodic, if it helps.
< 1274192302 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? wouldn't that be any gun?
< 1274192333 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, not if you run them for eternity.
< 1274192345 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The spaceships are emitted periodically.
< 1274192601 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274192990 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun fact: According to the Scotsman, a million people die of hepatitis C per year.
< 1274193012 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even though in the same article they said that only 400000 people had it.
< 1274193045 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the UK, BtW.
< 1274193061 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1274193085 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the population of the UK is only 60 million.
< 1274193112 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And only 500,000 people die in the UK per year.
< 1274193451 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274194005 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274194928 0 :Gregor-L!~Gregor@67-129-37-226.dia.static.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274195055 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274196065 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate Yo como esto.
< 1274196067 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like this.
< 1274196068 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY WHY WHY
< 1274196097 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1274196126 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Yo" means "I"; "como" means either "eat" or "similar to"; "esto" means "this".
< 1274196168 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google Translate apparently translated it word-for-word, assuming that "como" in that context meant "similar to", i.e. "like".
< 1274196519 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am like this :P
< 1274196552 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate Estoy como esto
< 1274196553 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like this
< 1274196569 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate Yo soy como esto
< 1274196570 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am like this
< 1274196587 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate uorygl esta como esto
< 1274196589 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl this like this
< 1274196593 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm
< 1274196628 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate uorygl es como esto
< 1274196630 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl is like this
< 1274196634 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why did I think "esta" X-D
< 1274196709 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate A uorygl es les gusta esto.
< 1274196711 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A uorygl is like this.
< 1274196721 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1274196742 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate A Kelsey le gusta la comida.
< 1274196744 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Kelsey likes the food.
< 1274196752 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate uorygl es les gusta esto.
< 1274196754 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl is like this.
< 1274196772 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I conclude that Google Translate is stupid.
< 1274196883 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate uorygl aspira pene de burro
< 1274196885 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl sucks donkey penis
< 1274196899 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think Google Translate likes you!
< 1274197111 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which language is this?
< 1274197131 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Malay
< 1274197160 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1274197713 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Gregor
< 1274197815 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274198569 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-12-238.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274199107 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Coyote finally caught me
< 1274200286 0 :Mathnerd314_!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274200374 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1274200395 0 :yiyus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1274200416 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1274200416 0 :BeholdMyGlory_!~behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274200418 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1274200436 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1274200449 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1274200451 0 :Mathnerd314_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Mathnerd314
< 1274200474 0 :BeholdMyGlory_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host
< 1274200474 0 :BeholdMyGlory_!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274200480 0 :BeholdMyGlory_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :BeholdMyGlory
< 1274200531 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274200683 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1274200683 0 :Gregor-L!~Gregor@67-129-37-226.dia.static.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274200684 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274200684 0 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274200796 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274200891 0 :rodgort!~rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274200955 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274200969 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1274201019 0 :SimonRC!~sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274201262 0 :yiyus!1242712427@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274201436 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274201468 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1274201506 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1274201952 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274201971 0 :cheater2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1274201972 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, trying to compile someone else's C++ program, and I'm getting a bizarre error
< 1274202003 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1274202012 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"error: no matching function for call to â€QSet<int>::contains(QSet<int>&)â€™" "note: candidates are: bool QSet<T>::contains(const T&) const [with T = int]"
< 1274202027 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in other words, no function matches, or possibly more than one, look, here's exactly one
< 1274202047 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274202061 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if something's weird about the mismatch in the amount of constness
< 1274202075 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274202197 0 :cheater2!~cheater@ip-80-226-26-140.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274202218 0 :marchdown!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274202519 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the "candidates" it list are (I think) just the ones with the same name.
< 1274202558 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And for QSet<int>, you only have that one that takes a const int&, and your argument is actually a QSet<int>.
< 1274202568 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha
< 1274202581 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the existing function is set-contains-member, rather than set-contains-set
< 1274202608 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fear I have the wrong version of various libraries, but I'm just going around fixing things up by hand atm
< 1274202620 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :working out what they're meant to do and rewriting them to something that works
< 1274202655 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274202698 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1274202721 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274202792 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's even better when the missing library function is a local patch which no-one has bothered to document.
< 1274202797 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems the set in question is fixed-size, so I just changed it into four contains calls separated by &&
< 1274202965 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I /did/ notice that the Linux binaries of the thing in question were 404s, which is not an encouraging sign
< 1274202971 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe someone broke the Linux build recently
< 1274203396 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274203614 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274203683 0 :charlls!~charlls@201.226.222.130 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274204164 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274204174 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1274204221 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think at this point, it's just dropping connections to fuck with me.
< 1274204720 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274204883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Rugxulo wonders if AnMaster ever got the cross compiler going <-- will look at it during the weekend and later
< 1274204887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no time currently
< 1274204918 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274204997 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, the modem is fucking with me.
< 1274205000 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It keeps resetting.
< 1274205032 0 :impomatic!~chatzilla@87.113.249.101 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274205036 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi :-)
< 1274205489 0 :cheater2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1274205682 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274205731 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Modem hates me *so much*
< 1274205742 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274205751 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1274206340 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm starting a collection of flowchart templates.
< 1274206400 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1274206430 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274206710 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flowcharts are for cissies!
< 1274206904 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Computer and information scientists"?
< 1274206912 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Our lab used to be called "CIS".)
< 1274207023 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1274207079 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Before it merged with the TCS -- theoretical computer science -- lab to form an ICS -- information and computer science -- department. I can manage to remember that much, but never the corresponding Finnish terms.)
< 1274207137 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you mean [[1. sissy, pantywaist, pansy, milksop, Milquetoast -- (a timid man or boy considered childish or unassertive)]], that's spelt differently.
< 1274207327 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're such a fizzie
< 1274207341 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, Hi!
< 1274207360 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A common typo.
< 1274207371 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wordnet doesn't know about me, but as far as I've been told, I'm some sort of a bath product.
< 1274207387 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O
< 1274207428 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This thing you dump in a bath tub and it goes fizzly and gives out some scents and colours the water and whatever.
< 1274207494 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_fizzie has a redirect.
< 1274207607 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION plobs fizzie into his bath tub
< 1274207642 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty colors :)
< 1274207682 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274208039 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!~chatzilla@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274208255 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1274208260 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Phantom_Hoover
< 1274208441 0 :cheater2!~cheater@ip-80-226-232-24.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274208537 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100423140709]
< 1274209086 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~chatzilla@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274209880 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274209899 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~chatzilla@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274210185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yay I finally got the toolchain to compile
< 1274211043 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only to find out the thing needed a C++ cross compiler too
< 1274211044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well
< 1274211048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*starts to compile that*
< 1274211221 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Scottish curriculum is the stupidest *ever*.
< 1274211270 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where saner systems have GCSEs, the SQA has Foundation, General, Credit (all Standard Grade), Access 3, Intermediate 1 and Intermediate 2.
< 1274211281 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274211323 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks #b3s23 is a rather bad name if you want _other_ than #esoteric regulars to find the channel
< 1274211324 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the Standard Grade grading system has 6 types of pass and *4* kinds of fail.
< 1274211347 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yeah, but #life and #gol were taken.
< 1274211365 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might make an announcement on the conwaylife forum.
< 1274211372 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they weren't on the same topic?
< 1274211413 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They may well have been, but both are dead.
< 1274211433 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1274211478 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#life is registered by one Grub, and #gol by Fluke.
< 1274211517 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#gameoflife maybe?
< 1274211527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ?
< 1274211531 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Baah!
< 1274211536 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise missed that.
< 1274211556 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's available, it seems
< 1274211564 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shouldn't game-of-life talk be on a ##channel anyhow?
< 1274211572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, wasn't grub one the nicks that the founder of this network owned?
< 1274211573 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, yeah.
< 1274211588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm no
< 1274211591 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can't have been
< 1274211598 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Maybe you're confusing with lilo. :p
< 1274211599 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"-NickServ- Last seen  : (about 2 weeks ago)"
< 1274211604 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Both are bootloaders, after all.
< 1274211606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes but I thought he owned both nicks
< 1274211612 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The yeah was aimed at fizzie, BtW.
< 1274211628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, Hm is Conway still alive?
< 1274211636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if yes he could register a #channel one ;P
< 1274211639 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :certainly
< 1274211667 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's probably far too busy to be on irc
< 1274211674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1274211690 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@62.1.103.160.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274211709 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and life is just one of his many inventions, anyway
< 1274211747 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conway's done a *lot* of stuff.
< 1274211777 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of which is much more mathematically impressive than game of life
< 1274211781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good point
< 1274211784 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah.
< 1274211792 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Possibly, though the "primary channel" rules say "groups and organizations", not individuals. But he's a mathematician, he can always define himself to be a single-element group.
< 1274211793 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but GOL *is* most well known
< 1274211796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without a doubt
< 1274211809 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's the most well-known bit of his recreational mathematics work.
< 1274211849 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: he knows a lot about finite groups, that's for sure ;)
< 1274211870 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(some of the simple finite groups are named after him)
< 1274211910 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("simple" here is in the technical sense, btw, which is far from simple)
< 1274211927 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He also invented an algorithm for calculating days of the week that can reasonably be done in your head.
< 1274211940 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(called the "Doomsday algorithm")
< 1274211949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, day of the week given a date or?
< 1274211961 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Given a date.
< 1274211973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, also does it take into account the Julian/Gregorian switch?
< 1274211981 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, and if so, for which country
< 1274211984 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's purely Gregorian.
< 1274211997 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph, _i_ can calculate days of the week in my head, given enough time, no formula needed ;)
< 1274212012 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. You can adapt the algorithm easily to Julian, but it doesn't account for switch dates.
< 1274212018 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: In a few seconds?
< 1274212034 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, considering Sweden had a especially funny and problematic switch. IIRC we tried to switch slowly at first by skipping leap year for several years. Except we failed to skip it a lot of the time
< 1274212037 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given enough time, i said
< 1274212046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so one year we gave up, went back to julian by inserting *two* leapdays
< 1274212062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then some 50 or whatever years later we switched it all in one go
< 1274212082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, could you handle that ;P
< 1274212089 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Not trivially.
< 1274212110 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: fwiw the original romans had the same problem with the julian calendar, after julius caesar died there was a messy time when they had leap years every third instead of every fourth year iirc
< 1274212123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :described under http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregorian_calendar#Adoption_in_Europe
< 1274212138 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would also probably get *royally* screwed up by things like Japan's switch from the Chinese lunar calendar to the Gregorian calendar.
< 1274212156 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augustus had to fix it, i think
< 1274212196 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... And reign years.
< 1274212200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, :D
< 1274212216 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Japan still uses reign years!
< 1274212251 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the romans _before_ caesar had a _real_ mess, they had leap months that were inserted by whim by politicians
< 1274212253 0 :charlesq__!~charlls@201.226.222.130 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274212305 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and could be used to shorten or prolong elected terms
< 1274212325 0 :charlls!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274212332 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thailand's current official calendar is currently in year 2553, but I don't know/remember the details.
< 1274212355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ... how silly
< 1274212362 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Japan is currently in the year 22.
< 1274212372 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heisei 22, to be specific.
< 1274212373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, oh? and what do computers in Japan say?
< 1274212380 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 2010.
< 1274212384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good
< 1274212389 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anno Domini years are *also* in use.
< 1274212399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, just don't push one?
< 1274212400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P
< 1274212403 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: especially since they were corrupt enough that it caused the year to drift
< 1274212415 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And fortunately, the only difference *is* the epoch, so it doesn't matter too much.
< 1274212428 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_solar_calendar -- I don't know about computers, but at least product "best before" labels used those years.
< 1274212428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, why didn't they just insert months forever then?
< 1274212439 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: max 1 per year
< 1274212453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ah. But they did insert one every year presumably?
< 1274212491 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well sometimes they wanted to _shorten_ the term of someone they didn't like, i think
< 1274212515 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, wouldn't it shorten the term for themselves too?
< 1274212518 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not exactly who decided and whose terms were affected
< 1274212523 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*+sure
< 1274212526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1274212564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, also how could it be used to shorten things? After all wouldn't that require inserting a negative leap month!?
< 1274212571 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the consuls were affected, i think.  the years were _named_ after their consuls, so they sort of had to be i think
< 1274212604 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well shorter than if they inserted one
< 1274212664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1274212692 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What's with the Chinese numerals? o.O
< 1274212707 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the consuls were the two most powerful officials in rome, when there wasn't a dictator)
< 1274212810 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:38:02 <SgeoN1> Would an aperiodic pattern moving through space have a speed?
< 1274212822 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a truly aperiodic pattern would have to be growing
< 1274212848 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hence its growth rate is its speed.
< 1274212856 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um no
< 1274212869 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well.
< 1274212872 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it grows to both directions, the average speed might be zero
< 1274212878 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that doesn't work.
< 1274212891 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assume "moving through space" implies it moves mostly in one direction, though
< 1274212898 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1274212913 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, says on the page it often also lists that and Gergorian as well?
< 1274212927 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm just not comprehending why is all.
< 1274212932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah no iea
< 1274212935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :idea*
< 1274212939 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not like Thai is written with Chinese characters!
< 1274212962 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case you could define the speed as the limit of the displacement of the "center of mass" divided by time.  there is no guarantee the limit actually _exists_, though
< 1274212970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, since computers internally work with unix time commonly, presumably it might, but it is just a string formatting thing
< 1274213021 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the pattern could stop for a while, then go on, then stop, in such a way that the average fluctuates and the limit fails to exist)
< 1274213196 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Ilari> Is there even example of aperioidic pattern that moves?
< 1274213222 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in principle it should exist, since you have constructors, arbitrary computation and stuff
< 1274213490 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:33:27 * Zuu plobs fizzie into his bath tub
< 1274213490 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:34:02 <Zuu> Pretty colors :)
< 1274213514 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not _healthy_ when someone turns blue in the bath tub, you know
< 1274213583 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1274213638 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, i would just like to inform that it is very annoying to write whitespace sensitive parsers
< 1274213663 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu: What sort of whitespace sensitivity?
< 1274213665 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: russian wiki spam
< 1274213687 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the kind where whitespace have meaning in some places, and doesnt in other places
< 1274213714 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :structure by indentation for instance
< 1274213725 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, like Python?
< 1274213744 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance
< 1274213756 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell's indentation system is rather awkward to implement
< 1274213777 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do the Python solution. Have the lexer convert it into up-indentation and down-indentation tokens.
< 1274213808 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... but that would just be a nasty lexer then
< 1274213812 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, Haskell's indentation is very much for the sake of people writing code, not the sake of the compiler.
< 1274213813 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, you cannot do it purely in the lexer - it interacts with the grammar's error rules
< 1274213823 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i suppose it could turn out to be better than soing it in the parser
< 1274213838 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still, i have linebreak sensitivity too
< 1274213838 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: deleted
< 1274213908 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, my language is soon done, sooo...
< 1274214062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, but how does it handle blank lines with no indentation?
< 1274214070 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu: I haven't seen you before.
< 1274214073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I'm pretty sure that works
< 1274214074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like
< 1274214079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(- is indent here):
< 1274214083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--code
< 1274214085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 
< 1274214089 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--more code
< 1274214095 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: only the indentation of actual tokens matter, iirc
< 1274214102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, exactly
< 1274214114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but checking for that seems rather nasty
< 1274214133 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, indentation of tokens can matter even if it's not the first token on the line
< 1274214152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, also line continuations:
< 1274214155 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nasty!
< 1274214163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--code(blah blah
< 1274214170 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although only after the indentation block starters (do, of, where, let)
< 1274214171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--    blah blah blahg)
< 1274214173 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like that
< 1274214174 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i think i have peeked in here a few time before :)
< 1274214180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the indention is also done with spaces
< 1274214187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it will be painful
< 1274214189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ^
< 1274214190 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*times
< 1274214233 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: er -- is a line comment in haskell, no continuation involved
< 1274214262 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :line-continuations
< 1274214263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ....
< 1274214265 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, see above
< 1274214266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh
< 1274214269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<AnMaster> (- is indent here):
< 1274214279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, and I was referring to python mostly
< 1274214284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, as in, in general terms
< 1274214298 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, because well, tab tends to render badly with many irc clients
< 1274214305 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it was important to be make the thing clear
< 1274214312 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: oh.  python is simpler i believe, although even it allows some things to continue, yeah
< 1274214331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yes and it allows the first case too of no indention on a blank line afaik
< 1274214358 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in haskell to continue things you need to indent them more than the current block, though, so _that_ detail is simpler in haskell
< 1274214408 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it still trips up people in some situations, notably if then else in do blocks (which is modified in the new Haskell 2010 revision)
< 1274214443 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, sigh, I was talking about python all along. Not about haskell..
< 1274214450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug*
< 1274214457 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so? i can talk about haskell for comparison.
< 1274214470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it seems rather fixed at haskell
< 1274214476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1274214491 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er english parsing error
< 1274214568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I do believe my computer is estimating charge time left somewhat incorrectly... "59% charged, 28734e+23 hours and 23 minutes left until fully charged"
< 1274214606 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: also you started your part of the discussion by asking pikhq how the blank lines were done in haskell, which was what i started answering
< 1274214607 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ETA 24855d 3:14:07" said a download thing to me an hour ago.
< 1274214611 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's done already.)
< 1274214623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well that could have been plausible stalled
< 1274214624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but...
< 1274214642 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe your battery-charging is stalled too. The electrons are resting.
< 1274214655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, as far as I know the gnome power applet thingy does this is based on previous charges
< 1274214656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as
< 1274214664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks at the time left before
< 1274214682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since percentage charged it isn't a linear function of time
< 1274214693 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it uses previously calculated curves for it
< 1274214704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay now it looks even stranger..
< 1274214720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"60% charged, -2 hours and 0 minutes left until fully charged"
< 1274214737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no it wasn't fully charged back then :P
< 1274214847 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I desire a Klein Bottle hat.
< 1274214926 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, what does it look like?
< 1274215004 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A bobble hat with a tube coming from the top and connecting to the side.
< 1274215213 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders the topology of Life on a Klein bottle.
< 1274215279 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose that most cylindrical technology would work properly.
< 1274215287 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a lot of toroidal stuff.
< 1274215320 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just need to connect the top of a cylinder to the bottom in the wrong way
< 1274215361 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so toroidal mapping on left and right edges, mirror wrapping on bottom/top
< 1274215393 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah.
< 1274215410 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The real projective plane might be interesting.
< 1274215472 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the tricky part with these 2-manifolds i think is convincing yourself each cell still has 8 neighbors in the corners
< 1274215472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, gcc configure options docs: "Native Language Support is enabled by default if not doing a canadian cross build."
< 1274215476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what on earth XD
< 1274215492 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: How can they not?
< 1274215504 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What happened? I was sleeping
< 1274215507 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I suppose you'd get into problems on a sphere.
< 1274215529 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1274215538 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone pinged me
< 1274215560 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But tori, Klein bottles and the RPP should be fine.
< 1274215582 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as each corner borders the four others it's fine, i think
< 1274215587 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*three
< 1274215617 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks up topology on WP
< 1274215651 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this sewing together two-manifolds was basically the starting part of our algebraic topology course
< 1274215660 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*stuff was
< 1274215690 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have not taken an algebraic topology course, wop the advantage is yours.
< 1274215698 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*MWAHAHAHA*
< 1274215708 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dont like how the 'bottle' intersects its own surface
< 1274215727 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had to revise complex numbers for about half an hour in class today.
< 1274215736 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would be more awesome to have a 'one sided bottle' that didnt intersect itself
< 1274215737 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu: that's the price for picturing it in three dimensions
< 1274215740 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not even difficult complexes, just basic stuff.
< 1274215766 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu: It's the same reason you can't have a Moebius band in 2D.
< 1274215781 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: if you picture it in four dimensions, can you please picture me while holding the bottle? :P
< 1274215804 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can visualise 4D I am utterly envious of you.
< 1274215811 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I spent several days trying.
< 1274215836 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu: i don't think there are any non-oriented 2-manifolds without borders (the technical term for one sided bottle :D) that can be embedded without intersection in three dimensions
< 1274215844 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*non-orientable
< 1274215860 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what soupdragon was on about a while ago
< 1274215873 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i have no idea what you just tried to tell me there :P
< 1274215891 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu: i repeat, *MWAHAHAHA*
< 1274215895 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu: You can't have a 3-sided bottle in 3D unless it intersects itself.
< 1274215896 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1274215901 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/3-/1-/
< 1274215910 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: good, because i dont want one
< 1274215923 0 :ChanServ!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+o oerjan
< 1274215926 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want a 'one sided'
< 1274215931 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is scared
< 1274215945 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Muhaha, scared fo the one sided bottle :P
< 1274215947 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION retreats to logs
< 1274215947 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :-b *!*quantum@unaffiliated/fax
< 1274215960 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me shakes the bottle in front of Phantom_Hoover's face :P
< 1274215961 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :-o oerjan
< 1274215967 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu: No, oerjan opped himself.
< 1274215979 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The last two times he did that he banned someone.
< 1274215981 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless there are protests
< 1274215988 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this time, the reverse
< 1274216002 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu: I meant 1-sided
< 1274216018 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1274216057 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose i'd have to settle for one with edges then
< 1274216095 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But a while ago fax/soupdragon said that s?he had a marvellous demonstration of the falsehood of string theory based on the non-orientability(?) of the Klein bottle.
< 1274216150 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds like two completely unrelated topics to me, but oh well
< 1274216176 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, no-one else got it.
< 1274216184 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu: i think that was about when s?he started unhinging
< 1274216192 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without quite a lot of explanation which you can just logread for.
< 1274216207 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hehe
< 1274216229 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone pinged me, I was napping
< 1274216236 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: It was a sort-of sane argument, but it fell down easily and fax was bloody obnoxious about it.
< 1274216271 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats the problem of spending too much time on something, you become too comitted :)
< 1274216342 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION finds it and reads it
< 1274216342 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: does fax have something against you personally btw, i have a vague idea this is not the first time s?he curses you
< 1274216352 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*cursed
< 1274216365 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um...
< 1274216383 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this may just be my faulty memory
< 1274216412 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ignored h(im|er) during the Brainfuck->Nat thing, and s?he took it badly.
< 1274216425 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was not in bad faith, I add.
< 1274216432 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i pinged you but i've forgotten what i twas
< 1274216458 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, about aperiodic needing to be growing, stuff like that
< 1274216479 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Must revise.
< 1274216483 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just wondered if s?he had any remotely sane reason to assume you were actually trying to insult her
< 1274216486 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yeah
< 1274216490 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: No.
< 1274216506 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok then
< 1274216514 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I did insult her during the Life thing, sort of.
< 1274216524 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what i meant
< 1274216535 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But this was after the Klein bottle thing, and she was slightly unhinged already.
< 1274216547 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I really must go noe.
< 1274216557 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye
< 1274216599 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye Phantom_Hoover
< 1274217856 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@74.13.126.43 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274217904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, any idea?
< 1274218216 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoah, my parser seems to work pretty well :)
< 1274218243 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: context?
< 1274218286 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly it's a general statement
< 1274218295 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have _any_ idea
< 1274218342 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, as great the amount of different stuff string theory can reproduce, there are limits for it...
< 1274218471 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1274218920 0 :charlls!~charlls@201.226.222.130 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274219094 0 :charlesq__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1274219107 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1274219362 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~chatzilla@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274219989 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274220660 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :For Game of Life discussion go to ##gameoflife  | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D
< 1274220857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm?
< 1274220862 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<AnMaster> ais523, gcc configure options docs: "Native Language Support is enabled by default if not doing a canadian cross build."
< 1274220863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that
< 1274220869 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, I didn't see that line
< 1274220878 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and canadian cross, it would probably be too tricky to write the configure file
< 1274220897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, eh?
< 1274220912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because Canada is bilingual?
< 1274220915 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P
< 1274220923 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, look up what a canadian cross actually is
< 1274220928 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you cross-compile a cross-compiler
< 1274220929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1274220934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay that explains it
< 1274220942 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is nice and crazy stuff.
< 1274220946 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it did seem very wtf if you interpreted it as I did
< 1274220967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :../../gcc-3.4.6/gcc/c-dump.c:136:5: warning: case value '152' not in enumerated type 'enum tree_code'
< 1274220967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :../../gcc-3.4.6/gcc/c-dump.c:121:5: warning: case value '153' not in enumerated type 'enum tree_code'
< 1274220967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :../../gcc-3.4.6/gcc/c-dump.c:163:5: warning: case value '154' not in enumerated type 'enum tree_code'
< 1274220970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of warnings
< 1274220971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like that
< 1274220974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somewhat scary
< 1274220983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah I haven't got C++ compiler to work
< 1274221008 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274221040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing is... it ends in a non-deterministic place kind of. Sometimes a sub-configure, sometimes in linking, sometimes in compiling. Then in the same sub-configure again even though the issue was supposedly solved already...
< 1274221054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sometimes I made no changes between those
< 1274221542 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Ping pong.
< 1274221573 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnop gnip
< 1274221581 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Excellent.
< 1274221587 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My very own tac.
< 1274221595 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*facepalm*
< 1274221608 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why?
< 1274221615 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!userinterps
< 1274221617 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Installed user interpreters: aol austro b1ff bc bct bfbignum brit brooklyn bypass_ignore chaos chef chiqrsx9p choo cockney ctcp dc drawl drome dubya echo eehird ehird fudd funetak google graph gregor hello id jethro kraut num ook pansy pirate plot postmodern postmodern_aoler redneck reverse rot13 sadbf sfedeesh sffedeesh sffffedeesh sffffffffedeesh slashes svedeesh swedish valspeak warez yodawg
< 1274221632 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!reverse We automate things, here
< 1274221636 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ereh ,sgniht etamotua eW
< 1274221638 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help postmodern_aoler
< 1274221638 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, I have no help for postmodern_aoler!
< 1274221645 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help postmodern
< 1274221646 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, I have no help for postmodern!
< 1274221665 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :none of those have help messages
< 1274221673 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!postmodern
< 1274221673 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're user-defined commands
< 1274221683 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^show
< 1274221683 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo reverb rev rot13 rev2 fib wc ul cho choo pow2 source help hw srmlebac uenlsbcmra scramble unscramble
< 1274221686 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh ls interps
< 1274221687 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1l
< 1274221700 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^rev Fungot can do stuff too
< 1274221700 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oot ffuts od nac tognuF
< 1274221716 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there anything he can't do?
< 1274221743 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who knows
< 1274221745 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh postmodern
< 1274221766 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know if those actually are files
< 1274221772 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ls
< 1274221776 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!postmodern Just try it like this
< 1274221776 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just try the semiotic object like this semiotically
< 1274221785 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1274221789 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!show postmodern
< 1274221790 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sh postmodern
< 1274221794 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1274221802 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!postmodern The rain in Spain falls mainly on the plain.
< 1274221803 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tted Kennedy rain the penetrated space of in the penetrated space of Spain the penetrated space of falls mainly on tted Kennedy plain the penetrated space of.
< 1274221813 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok it actually _is_ defined that way :D
< 1274221847 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh postmodern Klein bottles are not much good as bottles.
< 1274221857 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!postmodern Klein bottles are not much good as bottles.
< 1274221858 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Klein the penetrated space of bottles are not much subliminated homosexuality type as bottles.
< 1274221873 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once heard them described as pretzels.
< 1274221960 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!show graph
< 1274221960 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl (sending via DCC)
< 1274221978 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!~chatzilla@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274222000 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, no, I've been underscored.
< 1274222020 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tragic
< 1274222026 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!show graph
< 1274222026 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl (sending via DCC)
< 1274222064 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, the pretzel thing was IIRC in The Number Devil.
< 1274222114 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1274222121 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Phantom_Hoover
< 1274222162 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That book was probably the first mathematical thing to which I was exposed.
< 1274222226 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION never heard of it
< 1274222388 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know when it was written.
< 1274222403 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1998.
< 1274222416 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you were far past the point of readi it
< 1274222444 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1274222458 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1274222537 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's for children and teenagers.
< 1274222734 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. You're a hard man to Googlestalk, oerjan.
< 1274222742 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And now I must try to sleep.
< 1274222782 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't his name nearly the Norwegian equivalent of "John Smith"?
< 1274222789 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only the last name
< 1274222802 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100423140709]
< 1274222822 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the first name isn't too rare, either
< 1274222861 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is somewhat more difficult to Googlestalk than makes sense given his name.
< 1274222880 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's some gay DJ in the area with my name
< 1274222890 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, don't know if he's gay
< 1274222897 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I seem to recall something like that
< 1274222952 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^echo Fungot also has that confusing echo.
< 1274222952 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fungot also has that confusing echo. Fungot also has that confusing echo.
< 1274222989 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, he mostly plays music for gay people
< 1274223120 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1274223406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YAY
< 1274223413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/
< 1274223413 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   |
< 1274223414 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  /|
< 1274223416 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1274223429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :way to ruin by happiness...
< 1274223442 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_o
< 1274223445 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have BrickOS running
< 1274223448 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on my RCX
< 1274223459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at last the cross compiler pain paid off
< 1274223482 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, fizzie ^
< 1274223490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and oerjan too I guess ^
< 1274223760 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A winner is you.
< 1274223845 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: null
< 1274223879 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A \o| winner \o/ is |o/ you.
< 1274223880 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   |          |      |
< 1274223880 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   |\        /|      |\
< 1274223919 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O
< 1274223964 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION takes the prize and runs
< 1274223979 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274224004 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan is in the happy class of people who can utilize the dance and have the bodies align for both the "start of nickname" and "start of comment text" alignments.
< 1274224055 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does it look like for start of nickname folks?
< 1274224092 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It gets unaligned for non-six-letter nicks.
< 1274224115 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I understand what you mean now
< 1274224117 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought myndzi's dancers _were_ start of nickname based
< 1274224119 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, I mean, for "start of comment text" folks. It's properly aligned for start-of-nickname alignment.
< 1274224121 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1274224127 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was confused there.
< 1274224146 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So \o/ won't work for me
< 1274224146 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  |
< 1274224147 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  |\
< 1274224149 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah
< 1274224162 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but looks right here
< 1274224163 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it works if you do start-of-nickname.
< 1274224164 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least, to me, it looks like it won't work for me
< 1274224175 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Sgeo> So \o/ won't work for me
< 1274224175 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myndzi>   |
< 1274224175 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<myndzi>   |\
< 1274224175 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :           |
< 1274224175 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :          /|
< 1274224189 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That looks a bit disturbing.
< 1274224198 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks awful in the logs though, with the special characters
< 1274224206 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever they are
< 1274224213 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are special characters even involved?
< 1274224218 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea
< 1274224252 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh look a guy whos leg itself have legs!
< 1274224271 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a nasty outgrowth you have there, sir
< 1274224286 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Must looke wicked to see that guy run ^^
< 1274224288 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He looks like a double amputee
< 1274224309 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, actually, I just now realized that that interpretation is NSFW
< 1274224333 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's frequently NSFW anyhow
< 1274224341 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  \m/ \m/
< 1274224341 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   `\o/´
< 1274224342 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :     |
< 1274224342 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    /`\
< 1274224342 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  (_| |_)
< 1274224352 0 :charlls!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Saliendo
< 1274224393 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you spread the \m/s out further away and have it spread its hands without limit?
< 1274224418 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :testing \m/  \m/
< 1274224421 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope
< 1274224423 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw.
< 1274224485 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how his feet and hands are several times larger than his head
< 1274224499 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those are chains
< 1274224519 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh?
< 1274224531 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least, to me, they're "chain-y"
< 1274224539 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: your _mind_ is NSFW
< 1274224551 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the ms are hands, aren't they
< 1274224560 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore: remember to leave your mind when going to work.
< 1274224565 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i used to think
< 1274224632 0 :elliottcable!~ec@ec2-174-129-205-205.compute-1.amazonaws.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274224638 0 :elliottcable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :god, itâ€™s been a while
< 1274224640 0 :elliottcable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :â€™sup peeps?
< 1274224644 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd have assumed that \m/ is that hand sign, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corna you know.
< 1274224666 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliottcable: lots of life here recently
< 1274224671 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :game of life, that is
< 1274224672 0 :elliottcable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no kidding
< 1274224677 0 :elliottcable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasnâ€™t it like 5 people last time I was in here?
< 1274224690 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_o
< 1274224714 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would have had to be before i joined, and i vaguely thought i'd seen you before...
< 1274224725 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(2006)
< 1274225407 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1274225656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh elliottcable != ehird? Just same first name XD
< 1274225731 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, it's ec, ehird's worst enemy
< 1274225744 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evil twin, possibly
< 1274225747 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good to see you back, anyway
< 1274225751 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait, good twin, obviously
< 1274225777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, XD
< 1274225806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, are they really enemies?
< 1274225812 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worse than you and ehird
< 1274225816 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or so I'm told
< 1274225818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, impressive
< 1274226010 0 :augur!~augur@c-68-54-80-152.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274226216 0 :Mathnerd314_!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274226355 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1274226404 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-243-203-60.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274226468 0 :Mathnerd314_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Mathnerd314
< 1274226802 0 :andares!~andares@unaffiliated/jacco JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274226815 0 :andares!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, how do you copy a value in brainfuck?
< 1274226819 0 :andares!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm having trouble figuring it out.
< 1274226844 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From p[0] to p[1]? [>+<-]
< 1274226855 0 :andares!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, copy, as in non-destructively.
< 1274226890 0 :andares!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to write a brainfuck program to print out a value in ascii (base 10).
< 1274226893 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, copy. p[0] to p[1] using p[2] as a temporary cell: [>+>+<<-]>>[<<+>>-]
< 1274226910 0 :andares!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, thanks!
< 1274226918 0 :andares!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that's simple.
< 1274226932 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, the Brainfuck algorithms page on the Esolangs wiki is awesome.
< 1274226948 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274226955 0 :andares!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cooool.
< 1274226969 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to recall that I've stuck everything on there but the array stuff as PEBBLE's standard library.
< 1274226975 0 :augur!~augur@c-68-54-80-152.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274227003 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When is PEBBLE receiving PSOX integration?
< 1274227007 0 :andares!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh.
< 1274227014 0 :andares!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone should play code golf with brainfuck.
< 1274227038 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anagolf has bf doesn't it?
< 1274227058 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Too lazy.
< 1274227066 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :andares: Done several times. :)
< 1274227069 0 :andares!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p
< 1274227083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :andares, iirc http://golf.shinh.org/ has brainfuck
< 1274227104 0 :andares!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah fun.
< 1274227107 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Perhaps I should make this Brainfuck-to-assembly compiler into a Brainfuck-to-machine-code compiler and port to Brainfuck.
< 1274227155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, better: write llvm bindings for brainfuck ;P
< 1274227156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow
< 1274227162 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Bah.
< 1274227180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well I guess PSOX with llvm bindings would work
< 1274227206 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like-a the threaded code-a.
< 1274227213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1274227215 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night
< 1274227225 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even though it's only slightly more efficient than a good interpreter. :P
< 1274227438 0 :andares!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, I can't figure out integer division.
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< 1274245210 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1274245881 0 :Rugxulo!~user@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274245960 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't understand AnMaster's goal, just to have a "freehosting" (?) GCC/G++ for his whatever-oddball-processor?
< 1274245985 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's bound to be other compilers besides GCC for it
< 1274246003 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck, AnMaster knows some assembly, so screw the compilers, just use that, might be easier anyways   :-P
< 1274246013 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
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< 1274246378 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1274246400 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, I thought the Lego stuff supported Forth?
< 1274246403 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use that  :-P
< 1274246560 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=25272
< 1274246761 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://packages.debian.org/en/sid/binutils-h8300-hms
< 1274246878 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://packages.debian.org/lenny/gcc-h8300-hms
< 1274246928 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just to hammer the obvious home (though not sure if it makes it easier or not), MinGW, Cygwin, and DJGPP all use (some variant of) COFF
< 1274246947 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, laptop battery low, chat with ya later   ;-)
< 1274246949 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)
< 1274248509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Rugxulo> hey, I thought the Lego stuff supported Forth? <--  pbForth?
< 1274248511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well maybe
< 1274248513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but nah
< 1274248516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer C for it
< 1274248536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I don't wish to learn H8/300 asm
< 1274248554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks rather annoying
< 1274248754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I needed newlib to be able to compile g++
< 1274248760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that newlib is actually used then
< 1274248783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just needed for it to be able to compile
< 1274249306 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl university
< 1274249957 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :pikhq
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< 1274252138 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1274252420 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving...
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< 1274254930 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Night all
< 1274255080 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1274255886 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: null
< 1274255999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
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< 1274259459 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, it looks like someone has finally built a self-replicator in Life.
< 1274259798 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I now have profound respect for the inventor of the hashlife algorithm.
< 1274259923 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link?
< 1274260030 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.conwaylife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=399
< 1274260111 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's configured as a spaceship.
< 1274260148 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274260477 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hence it it disassembles its parent after being activated.
< 1274260533 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a lot prettier than the von Neumann replicators, though HighLife still wins that contest.
< 1274262189 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
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< 1274267573 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@150.140.227.55 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274269016 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has anyone else noticed that the shape of orbits is flowery when gravity is proportional to x^-1?
< 1274269040 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably
< 1274269052 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how it would probably work in 2d, after all
< 1274269081 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1274269124 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's not a personal "yes", btw :D)
< 1274269182 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What?
< 1274269211 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*i haven't noticed personally, no
< 1274270794 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
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< 1274278943 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have come to the conclusion that mathematics is a conspiracy.
< 1274282710 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
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< 1274285160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, wrt. http://www.conwaylife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=399 : also a space ships that alters direction every now and then
< 1274285201 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without any reflectors or such
< 1274285209 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or a spaceship that goes in a circle!
< 1274285256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, (regular) polygon or something?
< 1274285257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean
< 1274285263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't get a circle with just integers
< 1274285266 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1274285271 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Be pedantic, then.
< 1274285277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks :)
< 1274285281 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A path that self-connects.
< 1274285301 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARE YOU SATISFIED, GEOMETRY FASCIST?
< 1274285375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, challenge: write a GOL interpreter in GOL. And not the trivial "eval"-style one
< 1274285383 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Been done.
< 1274285387 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Three ways.
< 1274285403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1274285407 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of them simulating an infinite number of separate universes.
< 1274285408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl food
< 1274285438 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hashlife in life, now *that* would be interesting.
< 1274285790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back
< 1274285800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hah and I doubt it would be the most efficient in life
< 1274285821 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evidently you eat with some sort of tube.
< 1274285822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? it is an "architecture" that is completely different from "normal" computers
< 1274285832 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed.
< 1274285833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, eh?
< 1274285844 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You did not take long with the food. Forget it.
< 1274285873 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, making a computer that directly simulated Life on the hardware level probably wouldn't be as fast as using Golly.
< 1274285885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, oh just an... hm what is the English word
< 1274285888 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omelett in Swedish
< 1274285901 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is "omelette" in English.
< 1274285905 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1274285920 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We kept the 'e' because we are decadent and capitalist.
< 1274285995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice non-seqiture (spelling?)
< 1274286018 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, we didn't keep the 'e' on everything.
< 1274286031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, :P
< 1274286088 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just read someone saying that we travel at lightspeed down the time timension.
< 1274286098 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/timension/dimension/
< 1274286119 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It makes no sense
< 1274286171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would imply we can't travel to the future (we can't go faster) but we could slow down and even reverse... But then we could never catch up with the "present" again or something
< 1274286179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah it doesn't make a lot of sense
< 1274286228 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't make *any* sense.
< 1274286241 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time is the independent variable for speed.
< 1274286271 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So travelling along the time dimension means your speed is dt/dt, which makes no sense.
< 1274286358 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, we should get space dilation :P
< 1274286376 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My brain hurts now.
< 1274286403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a job well done then ;P
< 1274286428 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it would be dt/ds
< 1274286591 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonderful
< 1274286818 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
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< 1274287538 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
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< 1274288701 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: underflow
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< 1274291977 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
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< 1274293015 0 :cheater2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1274293621 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Sierpinski-pattern growth in any way mathematically interesting?
< 1274293997 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1274294421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, ?
< 1274294485 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The replicator in HighLife and the straight line in cylindrical Life both have a growth pattern tied into the Sierpinski gasket.
< 1274294646 0 :cheater2!~cheater@ip-80-226-234-136.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274294728 0 :cheater2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded
< 1274294845 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION can has obnoxiously swift Brainfuck compilation with hardly any optimisations being done
< 1274295337 0 :cheater2!~cheater@ip-80-226-234-136.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274295560 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@ppp-94-64-150-13.home.otenet.gr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274295967 0 :ws_!wswieb@akson.sgh.waw.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274296317 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274296419 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274296599 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274296604 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan!
< 1274296613 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover!
< 1274296628 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan!
< 1274296638 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover!!!!!!!!1111eleven
< 1274296668 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1274296690 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Phantom_Hoover> I have come to the conclusion that mathematics is a conspiracy.
< 1274296713 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know too much.  expect your numbers to start not adding up in the future.
< 1274296713 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was waiting for that previous exchange to escalate to interrobangs.
< 1274296715 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stuff turns up in too many places!
< 1274296733 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i'm still not unicode-clean you know
< 1274296748 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should take an unicode-shower.
< 1274296759 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek
< 1274296781 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It involves taking a bucketful of BMP characters and dumping them all over you.
< 1274296803 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<AnMaster> you can't get a circle with just integers
< 1274296816 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think you are not aware of pythagorean numbers, then
< 1274296834 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You'll keep finding CJK COMPATIBILITY IDEOGRAPHs in your hair for weeks.)
< 1274296837 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@2406:a000:f0ff:fffe::f59 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274296867 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, well it won't be a perfect *continuous* circle, right?
< 1274296871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is what I meant
< 1274296880 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*triple
< 1274296915 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well a continuous circle is uncountable, so...
< 1274296924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what is a "CJK COMPATIBILITY IDEOGRAPH"?
< 1274296925 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*triples
< 1274296935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, exactly my point!
< 1274296979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, now, does that ever exist outside pure math? as in real world. Drawn circles and so on
< 1274297025 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have no way of measuring finely enough to find out
< 1274297031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, on an atom-scale it seems doubtful
< 1274297056 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Chrome Web Store provides developers a window to over 70 million people, according to Google. Itâ€™s available in Chrome and Chrome OS and will be available in the Chrome Dev Center soon."
< 1274297068 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And putting things on the web: Available to everyone!
< 1274297085 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously, this is.. disconcerting
< 1274297106 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as they don't do vendor lockin
< 1274297147 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It
< 1274297162 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'s a Unicode supplement block.
< 1274297167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, used for what?
< 1274297178 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CJK compatibility, duh.
< 1274297215 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yeah and what does that mean
< 1274297231 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CJK means Chinese/Japanese/Korean
< 1274297234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1274297244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, so the compat stuff?
< 1274297312 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd guess it's compatibility for legacy character sets but I don't know
< 1274297323 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My guess is it's so that you can have a lossless translation from some legacy character sets to Unicode and back again.
< 1274297331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah makes sense
< 1274297334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of
< 1274297336 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least that's the justification for some other compatibility bits.
< 1274297344 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, that's what I was guessing also
< 1274297362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the lossless bit is the key to having it make sense
< 1274297369 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Compatibility Character. A character that would not have been encoded except for compatibility and round-trip convertibility with other standards."
< 1274297391 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well yes, I thought losslessness was obvious :-P
< 1274297404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh I didn't consider it might be an issue
< 1274297414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all it isn't for western languages really
< 1274297452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm still somewhat mystified why not just encoding it as the "non-compat" entry for the same char...
< 1274297457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as to why not*
< 1274297463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :encode*
< 1274297609 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: perhaps the original character set had different forms for variations of the same character
< 1274297614 0 :ws_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a new computing project
< 1274297624 0 :ws_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but have yet to figure out some parts here and there
< 1274297630 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster:
< 1274297643 0 :ws_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, it's decomposing a computing problem into a set of, say, puzzle flash games or something like this
< 1274297646 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not beinf for a "western language" does not remove the need for round-trip convertibility.
< 1274297656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hm
< 1274297663 0 :ws_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that users, not being aware of it, would be actually calculating something
< 1274297669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, that isn't what I said
< 1274297671 0 :ws_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :call it human-puting... MWAHAHAHAHA
< 1274297676 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i recall a discussion with someone who said that even distinguishing upper and lower case is really a compatibility feature for Unicode (it doesn't make sense in many charsets _other_ than western)
< 1274297682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, but a "western language" does not seem to have many issues with it
< 1274297701 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least that I found
< 1274297715 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*western ones
< 1274297724 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You say this because you use a Latin script.
< 1274297738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yes, so tell me why it is an issue elsewhere
< 1274297741 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which really does not have encoding issues at *all*.
< 1274297751 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I fail to see why unicode would do that for latin charset
< 1274297771 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes about as much sense as Han unification.
< 1274297789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what does? And what is that Han unification?
< 1274297793 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: um do what?  distinguishing or not distinguishing?
< 1274297803 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Merging upper and lower case.
< 1274297812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, the former. It shouldn't do the former.
< 1274297844 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Han unification is the process whereby the glyphs for pretty much all CJK characters were merged into codepoints based on abstract meaning, regardless of (sometimes quite major) glyph variations.
< 1274297848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, sure ASCII converts fine for most stuff. But ISO-whatever-forgot-the-number for example does as well
< 1274297850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on
< 1274297873 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's mostly that they want a one-to-one mapping for existing systems, so they'll have to include characters that would "naturally" be represented some other way in Unicode. There's at least some "presentation variations" for Arabic that "should" be expressed using some rendering-state-changing characters, but legacy encodings have unique characters for those.
< 1274297875 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, there is no EBCDIC compat block is there?
< 1274297891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I see.. so now it is up to the font?
< 1274297901 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1274297914 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which makes it a royal bitch to have plain text with both Chinese and Japanese in it.
< 1274297938 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They stopped *just* short of merging Simplified and Traditional Chinese.
< 1274297951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, they merged Chinese and Japanese!?
< 1274297965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, why not make case for Latin scripts up to the font as well? *shudder*
< 1274297975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes as much sense (none)
< 1274297982 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274297983 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chinese, Japanese and Korean.
< 1274297985 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, each language has its own glyph variants of Han characters.
< 1274297999 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: And Vietnamese's old orthography!
< 1274298003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1274298004 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Chu nom)
< 1274298026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the things in question is about local differences within a language?
< 1274298029 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: if they merged simplified and traditional chinese, the PRC and/or ROC would probably have declared war ;D
< 1274298030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this unification I mean
< 1274298041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ?
< 1274298043 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(on the Unicode consortium)
< 1274298072 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No, they merged nearly all glyph variants.
< 1274298072 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the Chrome Web Store just makes finding cool web stuff easier
< 1274298092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, even between the languages? You said they were separate above.
< 1274298093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1274298112 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No I didn't. I said each language posesses its own unique glyph variants for characters.
< 1274298131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, so now there are Simplified and Traditional + the rest? or what?
< 1274298186 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Simplified characters have their own codepoints. Traditional Chinese as written in China, as written in Korea, as written in Japan, and as formerly written in Vietnam are using the same codepoints.
< 1274298190 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Han_unification#Examples_of_language_dependent_characters
< 1274298207 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Except* when a previous encoding had differentiated them.
< 1274298225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, "<pikhq> *Except* when a previous encoding had differentiated them." <-- ?
< 1274298236 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I.e. when the character is in a compatibility block.
< 1274298243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1274298250 0 :augur!~augur@96.231.221.225 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274298252 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Characters, rather.
< 1274298262 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274298280 0 :augur!~augur@96.231.221.225 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274298358 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, they do look _very_ similar all over
< 1274298372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1274298372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ^
< 1274298399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are like two variants of shape and a few variants that looks like font style (bolder, less bold, ...)
< 1274298412 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That's... Not quite right.
< 1274298425 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I doubt I have a lot of fonts for those installed
< 1274298432 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'd do it.
< 1274298435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't like I could read it anyway
< 1274298457 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@213.249.12.32 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274298463 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've got the same font for the three Chinese variants
< 1274298482 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't bothered to do any font-setting-up either, but due to some accident or other the Korean characters look a lot more calligraphistical and (arguably) nicer.
< 1274298496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, for me, "Chinese Traditional" definitely have larger and bolder letters
< 1274298526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chinese (Generic) == Chinese Simplified
< 1274298528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the table
< 1274298537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also
< 1274298550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Japanese looks like the simplified Chinese
< 1274298557 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tar.us.to:4321/Han%20unification%20-%20Wikipedia,%20the%20free%20encyclopedia_1274294905927.png
< 1274298563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Korean like the "Chinese Traditional"
< 1274298573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, nothing like that
< 1274298578 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Look at the table of non-unified characters.
< 1274298601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, varies between different lines there
< 1274298612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in general Japanese looks like Simplified Chinese
< 1274298630 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the first and second lines are two different glyph variants.
< 1274298635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, for a few lines all entries on the line do look the same
< 1274298655 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To add another data point: http://zem.fi/~fis/wikihan.png
< 1274298671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, even more specialised fonts
< 1274298691 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately I chose another part of the table than Deewiant.
< 1274298694 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ä¸ˇ, ä¸¤, and ĺ…© would be unified under normal Han unification rules.
< 1274298714 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As would äş€, éľś, and éľź.
< 1274298722 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, "U+4E21"?
< 1274298725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well all are the same
< 1274298727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :over that line
< 1274298757 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, they are the same glyph, and only one font has it encoded apparently.
< 1274298761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, except they seem to have different baseline
< 1274298767 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm.
< 1274298788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl
< 1274298933 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That U+9F9C character in this font -- http://zem.fi/~fis/wikihan2.png -- looks like an electrical-drawing symbol for something very funky.
< 1274298964 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :éľś
< 1274298984 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a turtle.
< 1274299011 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, :D
< 1274299013 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My IRC font is so tiny that everything on-channel is just a messy blob.
< 1274299019 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, isn't äş€ a turtle?
< 1274299023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, same here
< 1274299026 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yes.
< 1274299034 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :éľś äş€
< 1274299036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1274299041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't say they look similar
< 1274299043 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They'd be Han unified if it weren't for compatibility issues.
< 1274299053 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_<
< 1274299067 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Along with éľź.
< 1274299105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, so since these represent abstract concepts you said...
< 1274299129 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, does that mean with just a change of font, a Japanese could read a Chinese text
< 1274299137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :provided it only used "shared" glyphs
< 1274299149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't know if some are unique to one of the languages)
< 1274299151 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1274299155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, why not?
< 1274299178 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Radically different grammar and semantics.
< 1274299187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1274299198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, then han unification made even less sense
< 1274299203 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Japanese merely *borrowed* Chinese characters for the purpose of writing their language.
< 1274299208 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But could it be like reading the world's most horrible machine translation of the other language? :p
< 1274299221 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Most horrible? Perhaps.
< 1274299250 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "shared semantics" thing is the sort-of justification for the unification: "This isnâ€™t to say that ideographs are truly ideographic, in that they represent abstract ideas; but they generally have one root meaning from which the others derive, and generally retain the bulk of their semantic content across linguistic boundaries."
< 1274299272 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I should also note: Chinese is not one language, but several languages, which happen to have a common standard orthography.
< 1274299283 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have been under the impression that it was mostly to get everything to fit in 16 bits, though I can't find that said anywhere.
< 1274299297 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(presently, said standard is moderately formal written Mandarin. Before the 50s or so, it was Classical Chinese.)
< 1274299367 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it was only for the 16-bittiness, they should undo it now that they have 20 bits anyway.
< 1274299389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, so widely different dialects then?
< 1274299391 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can get Unicode's "semantic content" hints for any of the unified characters from http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUnihanData.pl?codepoint=9f9c -- that's for the turtle -- after scrolling past mappings to other encodings.
< 1274299406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, or is the grammar completely different?
< 1274299424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there are some grammatical variations in Swedish dialects iirc)
< 1274299428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at least in some)
< 1274299438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(mostly gone in "current" times)
< 1274299446 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Grammar for the vernacular tends to have notable shifts. But they *are* related languages, so nothing quite as extreme as between Japanese and Chinese.
< 1274299453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, right
< 1274299463 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have, however, had *very* radical phoneme shifts.
< 1274299516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1274299548 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say the best analogy is that the Sinitic languages are like the Romance languages, except with somehow writing in Latin being considered the way to write in the Romance languages.
< 1274299573 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and... Reading it out loud using the local cognate words, not Latin)
< 1274299584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sinitic? Romance?
< 1274299590 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no clue what those are :P
< 1274299594 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Language families.
< 1274299601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1274299611 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sinitic languages = the languages deriving from Old Chinese. Romance languages = the languages deriving from Latin.
< 1274299612 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Romance is IIRC Eastern Europy.
< 1274299619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1274299629 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :romance = portuguese, spanish, french, italian, romanian, and some other small ones
< 1274299633 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: only romanian
< 1274299634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1274299641 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1274299660 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there's also English, which is arguably half-Romance. :P
< 1274299667 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only in vocabulary.
< 1274299672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I heard English placed as a germanic language?
< 1274299685 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is Germanic in grammar and a lot of the words.
< 1274299688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1274299712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, most(?) non-isolated languages imported words though
< 1274299714 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: more english words are romance than germanic iirc, but the _most common_ words are germanic
< 1274299723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Swedish is definitely from the germanic family
< 1274299742 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*mostly germanic
< 1274299747 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Many of those common words are not, however, native to English.
< 1274299750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yet we have imported quite a few French words. garage and garderob iirc come from French
< 1274299754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are more
< 1274299775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(btw: garderob = wardrobe)
< 1274299783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(garage = garage)
< 1274299792 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 25% of our vocab is from French.
< 1274299797 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :25% of our vocab is from Latin.
< 1274299807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well it isn't as much for Swedish, but there are quite a few things...
< 1274299809 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: borrowings from other germanic languages, you mean? (like egg, skirt and such)
< 1274299818 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes.
< 1274299823 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Sky".
< 1274299832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :window (germanic)
< 1274299840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, where is "sky" from?
< 1274299840 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember reading that in Welsh, the words for "church", "bridge" and "window" are all from Latin.
< 1274299844 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Old Norse.
< 1274299850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh makes sense
< 1274299854 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus implying that the ancient Britons did not have these things.
< 1274299854 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally "sky" means "cloud" not sky in norwegian
< 1274299856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have sky in Swedish still
< 1274299866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, not like that here
< 1274299869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather
< 1274299871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on context
< 1274299898 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sky would be "himmel", which also means heaven dependent on context
< 1274299920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I would say himeln for the sky in Swedish probably. More natural. Not that "skyn" is archaic
< 1274299925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :himlen*
< 1274299935 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: "window" ~ "wind-eye"
< 1274299937 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We also developed quite a few grammar simplifications from Old Norse.
< 1274299967 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in new norwegian that's still transparent, "vindauge" = "vind" + "auge"
< 1274299973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, also a simple rule for a/an. I love that in English
< 1274299977 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yeah, but in Welsh it's something like "ffenys", which obviously derives from the Latin "fenestra".
< 1274299980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a LOT easier to learn than French
< 1274299982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such
< 1274299987 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, Welsh.
< 1274299990 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_<
< 1274299995 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure of "fenetr?"'s declension.
< 1274299998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, in modern Swedish, window is "fĂ¶nster"
< 1274300005 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which came from German iirc
< 1274300012 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then from other languages
< 1274300017 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: :)
< 1274300056 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It evidently came to Finnish from Russian
< 1274300057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yet you haven't updated English yet. If even we dropped "window"/"vindĂ¶ga" so should you :P
< 1274300067 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what did? fĂ¶nster?
< 1274300078 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, fi:ikkuna.
< 1274300096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, doesn't look similar to fĂ¶nster at all, so I guess it is not connected to that at all
< 1274300097 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ru:ĐľĐşĐ˝Đľ.
< 1274300101 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :defenestration is a cool word
< 1274300103 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like I just said
< 1274300124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, sure but I meant where the Russians took it from
< 1274300129 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(obviously)
< 1274300133 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: We just pile on other influences is all.
< 1274300141 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, that'd be Proto-Slavic. :-P
< 1274300150 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Defenestration is one of those words for which I'm dying to find a use.
< 1274300155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ah. Is that like "no one knows for sure"?
< 1274300159 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1274300181 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or "it's so old that we lack the info".
< 1274300188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, what does it mean?
< 1274300196 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: we could use it on you, and you'd be quite likely to be dying, yes
< 1274300199 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Throwing out of a window.
< 1274300203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hah
< 1274300231 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274300232 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though out of a window feels like it should be "exfenestration".
< 1274300269 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to Wiktionary (Swedish) "fĂ¶nster" is from Latin too.
< 1274300276 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well given that it's _through_ the window, should be transfenestration
< 1274300315 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: well naturally given de-fenestr-ation
< 1274300354 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evidently the proto-Germanic people didn't have windows.
< 1274300376 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: hey what's wrong with wind-eye
< 1274300406 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, but why would it be applied inconsistently if it was in the root of the Germanic languages?
< 1274300431 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because using latin words is pretentious?
< 1274300445 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed.
< 1274300447 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except in English, where it's done without realising it.
< 1274300463 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish there was a Latin equivalent of "pretentious".
< 1274300468 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or even that I knew one.
< 1274300483 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quidquid Latine dictum sit, altum auditur.
< 1274300497 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1274300504 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"altum" means "profound", not "pretentious".
< 1274300528 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: erm "pretentious" is obviously latin-derived? admittedly it may not have existed originally
< 1274300552 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, but I suspect it's like "ostensibly".
< 1274300562 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm?
< 1274300578 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ostendo" just means "I show", not what it means in English.
< 1274300611 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well so ostensibly should mean "showably", then...
< 1274300645 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, but it means something like "giving only the outwards appearance of" in English.
< 1274300678 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274300688 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo!
< 1274300697 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however pretentious means pretending to be better than you are, so that's no so far off... i think
< 1274300700 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's lonely in ##gameoflife.
< 1274300723 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's ##gameoflife now?
< 1274300736 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: What I mean is that the Latin root probably has different connotations to the English word.
< 1274300745 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yeah, it's a better name.
< 1274300745 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1274301567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I found out one of my rcxes doesn't work.
< 1274301572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I will have to do with a single one :(
< 1274301609 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1st commandment of troubleshooting: If thy Hardware breaks down, though must Hit it Sharply.
< 1274301701 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, that doesn't apply to purely surface mounted components I think
< 1274301713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did check that I got voltage across the battery box
< 1274301726 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah I can't do much about the tiny surface mounted components
< 1274301726 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hast thou Hit it Harder?
< 1274301731 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION can't wait to play Gish at the speed it was meant to be played at
< 1274301742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hah
< 1274301744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah
< 1274301768 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, the links to the games don't include the bundle ID
< 1274301769 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What could Possibly go Wrong?
< 1274301778 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I could point someone to a game and not have it be traced to me >.>
< 1274301792 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: How old is your machine now? :-P
< 1274301794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, a lot
< 1274301795 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless referer stuff is used, I guess
< 1274301803 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, this is, um, 2006 or earlier
< 1274301807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, though lego is probably rugged when it comes to that
< 1274301810 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But far better than the 2000 machine I was on before
< 1274301828 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gish is 2004, you know :-)
< 1274301873 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It still ran.. slowly.. on my old machine
< 1274301906 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you get it from a thrift shop in 2006? :-P
< 1274302035 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1274302065 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, any even half-new machine from 2006 /should/ be able to run Gish just fine
< 1274302124 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274302542 0 :charlls!~charlls@201.226.222.130 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274302649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, Gish?
< 1274302701 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A game, I believe.
< 1274302710 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You control a blob of tar IIRC.
< 1274302716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Phantom_Hoover> According to Wiktionary (Swedish) "fĂ¶nster" is from Latin too. <-- probably. But indirectly
< 1274302739 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read about it in SAOB (iirc) that it came from Mid-German or something like that
< 1274302755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, but they then imported it from somewhere south
< 1274302853 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/fenestra#Latin
< 1274302857 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it does
< 1274302864 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But before, I was on my machine from 2000
< 1274302904 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah; I was intending to query about the not-at-the-speed-Gish-was-meant-to-be-played machine
< 1274302990 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time to play with Aquaria
< 1274303028 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aquaria are not to be played with!
< 1274303043 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-243-203-60.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274303056 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fish are delicate creatures
< 1274303108 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274303110 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No they aren't.
< 1274303124 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aquaria was a nice bonus; the only one of those games I hadn't already played
< 1274303163 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: see how well they fare if you break the aquarium
< 1274303243 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's like saying rhinoceroses are delicate because they die if you drop them in the ocean.
< 1274303271 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's true - from a certain point of view
< 1274303310 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now if it were hippopotami...
< 1274303376 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hippopotamus" derives from Greek, not Latin, and I must go.
< 1274303408 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so?  most greek words get squeezed through latin anyhow
< 1274303414 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today I learned: rhinocerotes are delicate but hippopotamuses aren't
< 1274303423 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274303438 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: no one can say #esoteric isn't educational!
< 1274303448 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well they could, but they would be lying
< 1274303450 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's its main purpose, isn't it?
< 1274303463 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that and instilling insanity
< 1274303490 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same difference?
< 1274303570 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true, true
< 1274303607 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also, spam
< 1274303627 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll catch up with it in a bit
< 1274303737 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1274303902 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, deleted
< 1274304059 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~chatzilla@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274304191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Phantom_Hoover> You control a blob of tar IIRC. <-- well then gzip it ;P
< 1274304194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION runs
< 1274304200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hi
< 1274304204 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1274304220 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION runs after AnMaster and swats him -----###
< 1274304222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, can you tell me how VHDL integer overflow/underflow is handled?
< 1274304234 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :integers? it isn't
< 1274304245 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STD_LOGIC_VECTORs overflow in the usual 2's complement way, though
< 1274304266 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actual integers are mostly only useful for things like testbenches, as they don't synthesise
< 1274304277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so for befunge93 in VHDL a subtype like (79 downto 0) won't work? You would need border logic still?
< 1274304289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ouch
< 1274304296 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: oh, if you specify bounds, it might work
< 1274304301 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that doesn't synthesise /at all/
< 1274304315 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"integer from 79 downto 0" is not a type that exists in hardware
< 1274304328 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least not without more information as to how to represent it
< 1274304335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, 100% sure? Because... at a lab at university we used an integer subtype with limited range and it did synthesize...
< 1274304356 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not 100% sure
< 1274304365 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can imagine synthesisers that could manage that
< 1274304386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well iirc (was a few weeks ago now) it wasn't that specific range
< 1274304393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hm
< 1274304400 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might have been forced to a power of 2
< 1274304409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it was a power of two iirc
< 1274304444 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :integer (255 downto 0) strikes me as pretty similar to std_logic_vector (7 downto 0)
< 1274304450 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't see why you wouldn't use the second
< 1274304464 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, can you add two of the latter?
< 1274304466 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can cast it to an integer whenever you need its value, but now you also have a nice simple representation of it
< 1274304469 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yup
< 1274304481 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to import std_logic_vector arithmetic libraries, but they're standard
< 1274304482 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and increment it? And so on
< 1274304509 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there'll be code inside the library to explain how to synthesise an adder, etc
< 1274304529 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1274304535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, which is the fastest "RAM" to implement on a FPGA?
< 1274304541 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and what about space usage
< 1274304555 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: fastest "RAM" is if you go to the manufacturer and ask them for a RAM core
< 1274304563 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are so basic you can normally get them for free
< 1274304565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, SRAM, d-latches, ...
< 1274304588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I was considering a stack of 2048 items to go with the 25x80 fungespace of this...
< 1274304590 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: onboard RAM goes at the rate of 1 per cycle, as normal
< 1274304604 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yep but would that be feasible as on board
< 1274304612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a typical FPGA
< 1274304630 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAIR, they're both pretty much equally feasible, you just have different quantities of them
< 1274304640 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :onboard RAM takes less chip space as LUT RAM
< 1274304646 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ... well I meant the quantity I mentioned above
< 1274304651 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they both take one clock cycle to read or right
< 1274304653 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*write
< 1274304666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh you mean they have special ram, not written like latches/flip-flops?
< 1274304667 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 KB seems like a bit much for LUT RAM
< 1274304668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1274304670 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, they do
< 1274304688 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, of course, it isn't portable
< 1274304691 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well I meant this to both run in ghdl and in theory be mostly synthisable
< 1274304699 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to get the RAM description from the manufacturer
< 1274304703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so I'm confined to LUT RAM then
< 1274304722 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you could write your own synthesis model for some plausible onboard RAM
< 1274304730 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*simulation model
< 1274304737 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just in terms of arrays of integers or whatever
< 1274304744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I'm going to attempt "portable" VHDL + a ghdl wrapper (mapping the signals to console IO and such) which could be replaced for actual synthesis
< 1274304775 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I say, make your "RAM" an entity
< 1274304787 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with one architecture just being LUT RAM, and another being simulated RAM
< 1274304793 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1274304795 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can add a third or fourth if you ever need on-chip RAM
< 1274304798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see
< 1274304813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, wouldn't simulated ram == lut ram?
< 1274304827 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably run faster in an actual simulation
< 1274304837 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you'd be manipulating numbers in memory, rather than arrays of bits
< 1274304841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about the registers? How should those be handled. I need like x,y,direction,stringmode
< 1274304853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably a few more, not sure
< 1274304854 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make them signals
< 1274304872 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'll synthesise into LUT RAM, or possibly something more optimal
< 1274304879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, at what entity level? Or do you suggest I write the whole b93 interpreter in one entity?
< 1274304905 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are at the level of the main entity; you can pass them as 'arguments' to other entities you use
< 1274304912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1274304915 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true
< 1274304916 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VHDL doesn't have monads, so you have to do it by hand
< 1274304922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1274304934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, port map presumably?
< 1274304944 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1274304949 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever stupid name VHDL uses for it
< 1274304964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I thought you knew VHDL?
< 1274304970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also these would need to be in and out, in various places
< 1274304977 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or inout
< 1274304982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes
< 1274304982 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do know VHDL, sort of
< 1274304990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm scared of ending up driving it in multiple places
< 1274304995 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but normally I get Emacs to do all the details for me
< 1274305000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh?
< 1274305008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION used kate so far
< 1274305023 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: try, so long as you have VHDL-mode you'll be pleasantly surprised
< 1274305054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kate has a quite nice VHDL mode too
< 1274305074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it red-underline-bold highlights mismatched end lines
< 1274305083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like end entity somethingelse;
< 1274305090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever
< 1274305102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if ... case ... end case; end if
< 1274305108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1274305110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant
< 1274305115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if ... case ... end if; end case
< 1274305117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh
< 1274305152 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VHDL needs more tool support than Java, really
< 1274305153 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, nice VHDL menu but what does all the options do
< 1274305160 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't use the menu, normally
< 1274305164 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it triggers as you type
< 1274305172 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g., type "entity " and see what happens
< 1274305173 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like... compose â†’ wire components?
< 1274305181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what on earth is that
< 1274305185 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea, offhand
< 1274305219 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hdl Electric Mode: Hide Value Toggle  on (non-nil)
< 1274305220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   State: STANDARD.
< 1274305220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   Non-nil enables electrification (automatic template generation).
< 1274305226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vhdl* (on first line)
< 1274305242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that had be confused for a bit before I read the desc...
< 1274305252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and realised it was *emacs* electric mode)
< 1274305256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not hardware electric)
< 1274305279 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's what means I don't have to memorise lots of boilerplate
< 1274305301 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you mean library IEEE; use ieee.std_logic_1164.all;?
< 1274305309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is trivial to remember
< 1274305322 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I mean, say the syntax for entity
< 1274305327 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even a simple for-generate loop
< 1274305348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :entity foo is  ... end entity foo;
< 1274305364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I need to learn this, will have exam where I have to show I know it...)
< 1274305495 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not just that, there's all the boilerplate you have to put /inside/ that
< 1274305511 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VHDL has far too much syntax, it goes on for miles and most of it's redundant
< 1274305545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh inside that? port(a,b,c: in std_logic; d,e,f: out std_logic); ?
< 1274305554 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that sort of thing
< 1274305564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, which isn't really redundant
< 1274305578 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is there anything except that an the generics stuff you put in the entity?
< 1274305588 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really, but compare it to C
< 1274305605 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int entity_name(int a, int b, char c, char d);
< 1274305617 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering how similar things are...
< 1274305638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1274305649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but VHDL has functions too iirc?
< 1274305652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which are different
< 1274305671 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VHDL has /everything/
< 1274305676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stuff like rising_edge() or various conversion routines
< 1274305680 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two sets of primitives, declarative and imperative
< 1274305685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes but what are VHDL functions used for?
< 1274305699 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~chatzilla@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274305700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you mean <= outside process vs. inside process kind of thing?
< 1274305708 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Update please.
< 1274305717 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: pretty much
< 1274305720 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: on what?
< 1274305727 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EVERYTHING.
< 1274305729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover # apt-get update
< 1274305736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover # apt-get upgrade
< 1274305739 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, done :P
< 1274305746 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: sudo aptitude update && sudo aptitude safe-upgrade
< 1274305759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, eh? who uses aptitude
< 1274305770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's kind of painful
< 1274305771 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do nowadays; it keeps track of things a bit better than apt-get does
< 1274305774 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to being higher level
< 1274305774 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1274305777 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use aptitude...
< 1274305795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should start using dpkg or something
< 1274305821 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: and wget?
< 1274305829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, sure why not
< 1274305830 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I'm terrified of my system being filled to the brim with pointless packages that were needed when I wanted to experiment with X, which I have since uninstalled.
< 1274305838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and sudo is annoying. Redirection issues
< 1274305841 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: netcat?
< 1274305855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or that with &&
< 1274305876 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I don't mind my system filling with pointless packages
< 1274305881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, there are logs in topic
< 1274305899 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have OCD...
< 1274305931 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Manually uninstalling the 5000 dependencies for whatever is even worse than just leaving them.
< 1274305942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, what has that got to do with apt-get?
< 1274305952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does track what is installed as dep
< 1274305957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what is explicitly installed
< 1274305978 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do aptitude too; the conflict resolution is better. And I don't feel the pain.
< 1274305978 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it?
< 1274305999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well at least it told me "this package is no longer required" in such a situation
< 1274306000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a few times
< 1274306022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, do you do apt-cache at least?
< 1274306056 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's "apt-get autoremove" which does the "remove packages that were automatically installed to satisfy dependencies for some package and that are no more needed" task; I don't know if it's automagically invoked sometimes too.
< 1274306072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, no it isn't. And shouldn't be
< 1274306084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it tells you however if there are such packages
< 1274306094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but happily it doesn't run it automatically
< 1274306162 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: there's a command-line option to ask for it to be automagically invoked
< 1274306165 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't without that
< 1274306196 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, --auto-remove.
< 1274306212 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a configuration item you can set.
< 1274306212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can set it in the config file I bet
< 1274306217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1274306223 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :APT::Get::AutomaticRemove.
< 1274306246 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They've been crafty and put that "matic" part in so that it wouldn't match the command/option.
< 1274306271 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders the reason that The Apprentice uses xylophone music.
< 1274306475 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xenophobia.
< 1274306687 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.dangermouse.net/esoteric/wpeg.html
< 1274306695 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's actually a pretty good idea.
< 1274306711 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compression for the internet age.
< 1274306743 0 :aschueler!~alec@host86-142-138-45.range86-142.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274306812 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION begins rambling
< 1274306859 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION stops.
< 1274306952 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274306995 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ramble ramble, lurk and shamble
< 1274307129 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're a mathematician, right?
< 1274307171 0 :kk!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274307213 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services
< 1274307218 0 :kk!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :kar8nga
< 1274307226 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Well?
< 1274307292 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose so
< 1274307319 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What kind?
< 1274307346 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly former
< 1274307358 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you do now?
< 1274307365 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing
< 1274307388 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :used to be functional analysis and dynamical systems
< 1274307466 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and measure theory
< 1274307474 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of a kind
< 1274307715 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course.
< 1274307740 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you remain annoyingly hard to Googlestalk.
< 1274307782 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to googlestalk my published articles, all of them are collaborations with either Richard Gjerde or Alf Rustad.
< 1274307813 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also Johan Aarnes in one three-author paper)
< 1274307875 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to calculate oerjan's ErdĂ¶s number
< 1274307884 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4, via Aarnes
< 1274307896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1274307904 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a friend with a Bacon number of 3.
< 1274307911 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, so you don't have a job now?
< 1274307915 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1274307922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hm how do you pay bills and such?
< 1274307930 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :His father published a paper, but as far as I can tell he's in an isolated network.
< 1274307964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait forgot Norway have social security...
< 1274307982 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out-of-work mathematicians...
< 1274307989 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Will integrate for food"
< 1274308003 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274308012 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, XD
< 1274308337 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1274308357 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Do you not have social security in Sweden?
< 1274308729 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1274308755 0 :augur!~augur@96.231.221.225 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274308768 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1274308816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we do
< 1274308819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah it isn't great
< 1274308864 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Compared with the US, I'm sure it is awesome.
< 1274308886 0 :ws_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ws
< 1274308923 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Would you become homeless if you did not have a job? If no, it's awesome compared to the US.
< 1274309009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, most likely not.
< 1274309023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it would be harsh conditions
< 1274309025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still
< 1274309037 0 :elliottcable!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :e_e_cable
< 1274309052 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How harsh?
< 1274309053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, the amount of money you get is just enough for rent and some food. Nothing more than that.
< 1274309069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no new clothes can be fit in or anything
< 1274309078 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Radically* better than the US.
< 1274309191 0 :hiato!~fdulu@41-135-6-154.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274309340 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When unemployment pay ceases in the US, you're... Just kinda fucked.
< 1274309926 0 :e_e_cable!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :elliottcable
< 1274310009 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@150.140.227.55 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274310170 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274310190 0 :augur!~augur@96.231.221.225 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274310269 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
< 1274311029 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274311106 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: underflow
< 1274311136 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: null
< 1274311338 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274311548 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274311577 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274311914 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1274312137 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274312233 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1274312760 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274312788 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274313246 0 :sdorand2!~sdorand@pool-98-114-198-98.phlapa.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274313289 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1274313290 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was not expecting there to be boss fights in Aquaria
< 1274313315 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aquaria?
< 1274313331 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274313349 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you mess with the boss you'll be sleeping with the fishes
< 1274313360 0 :augur!~augur@96.231.225.145 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274313382 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1274313386 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe
< 1274313398 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one would think however that intelligent life appreciates other intelligent life
< 1274313411 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though where I fit I truly have no idea
< 1274313462 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gently taps sdorand2's pun detector
< 1274313478 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one would hope....
< 1274313481 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tsk, tsk
< 1274313493 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea what i've even stumbled across....
< 1274313497 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have some ideas
< 1274313501 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they're all borderline insane
< 1274313514 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depending on one's relativistic philosophies
< 1274313552 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this channel is about esoteric programming languages, not the other kind of esoterica
< 1274313565 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps its all the same thing
< 1274313723 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aquaria is a computer game, i think
< 1274313727 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274313762 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my brain hurts lol
< 1274313774 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1274313793 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm afraid this channel doesn't help with _that_
< 1274313880 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no what?
< 1274313882 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now what?
< 1274313886 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sdorand2: you're comments are rather vague, are you a bot?
< 1274313889 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*your
< 1274313915 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that i'm aware of but perhaps you are as are all underlying atoms and subatomic particles
< 1274313941 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be
< 1274313964 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we sometimes discuss the simulation argument here
< 1274313965 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do not feel like a bot
< 1274313991 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i went on what i might call a digital archaeology hunt today
< 1274313998 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in the "real" world
< 1274314016 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the world is "real" (in theory)
< 1274314044 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it might be easy to find out.....
< 1274314059 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if one could access ever supercomputer on the planet, every institution, government, etc....
< 1274314060 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if everything is a simulation, then there doesn't necessarily exist anything _less_ real than this world
< 1274314061 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every book...
< 1274314070 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every code....   ISO, protocol, language, etc
< 1274314075 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :symbol...
< 1274314076 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc
< 1274314085 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and build a picture...
< 1274314096 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though this of course would require insane computing power....
< 1274314104 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chains of events....
< 1274314106 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :causality
< 1274314108 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reverse causality
< 1274314109 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrappers
< 1274314118 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time travel
< 1274314119 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc
< 1274314174 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps there are gateways between worlds....
< 1274314184 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :between levels of complexity....
< 1274314189 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where the rules are different
< 1274314203 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps there are 231 gateways
< 1274314213 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps only 211 per wikipedia
< 1274314232 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :these aren't actually new ideas - science fiction and fantasy writes about such
< 1274314239 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1274314252 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've also considered the possibility of those worlds...
< 1274314257 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how they work at subatomic levels
< 1274314262 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274314274 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also from a psychological point of view from an individual to a civilization....
< 1274314292 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :utlimately it all seems to have some common laws..... at least as far as "human" minds are concerned
< 1274314297 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1274314306 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1274314326 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but perhaps human experience also exists in parallel with other dimensions that they can not appreciate unless they have access to them
< 1274314354 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that _could_ be just a lack of imagination, though
< 1274314366 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and perhaps it all boils down to code....   fine structured infinite constants
< 1274314397 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone knows
< 1274314409 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all i know is that i'm here
< 1274314478 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one would think however that at some point the notion of "meaning" becomes watered down...
< 1274314492 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irregardless of universe, multiverse, timeline, dimension, etc
< 1274314509 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1274314845 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274314894 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1274314935 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sanity is waning
< 1274315049 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's interesting is a few domains on the internet that do not appear to have any whois information associated with them
< 1274315136 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure if someone/thing is trying to teach me to code/uncode, count, decompile the universe, compile the universe, perfect the universe, hack the universe, or what
< 1274315168 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uncode?
< 1274315280 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we all make words don't we?
< 1274315318 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are philosophies that say words are a deceptive way of understanding the world
< 1274315357 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed..
< 1274315372 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes i think people talk too much
< 1274315383 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yip yip yip yip.... about nothing...
< 1274315385 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :football.....
< 1274315386 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shopping...
< 1274315390 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the weather..
< 1274315392 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh
< 1274315401 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hence my extreme introversion
< 1274315406 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in general)
< 1274315428 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274315455 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tell Stephen Wolfram and George Lucas I said hi
< 1274315469 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1274315471 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh i'd be surprised if they come here
< 1274315525 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who is on the wire of my mind?
< 1274315558 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i am, i don't know it
< 1274315564 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who is dumping, analyzing, extrapolating, and meme hashing my thought processes?
< 1274315594 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who is modifying the angles by which my dna is assembled?
< 1274315625 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it not possible to model billions upon billions of human populations across a multitude of various timelines?
< 1274315649 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the smallest differences in every possible structure?
< 1274315746 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only if one has no ethics
< 1274315934 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now that is an interesting point....
< 1274315961 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274315964 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if this is in fact a machine, and that is what is being done....
< 1274315971 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then one could question the ethics of our creators....
< 1274315998 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they are part of the same construct and it is all interconnected.... perhaps no one is ultimately to blame....
< 1274316014 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1274316026 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have considered the possibilities...
< 1274316038 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are certainly a multitude of philosophical concerns...
< 1274316065 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet when one acts within life, can not the butterfly effect end up somehow causing the same issues eventually?
< 1274316113 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think continuance of existence is a good thing
< 1274316123 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, when we have such limited knowledge.....
< 1274316130 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can anyone truly know what they are doing?
< 1274316156 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless one has access to a higher power of guidance somehow....
< 1274316186 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what if ultimately good and evil are simply part of the same construct and necessary for the existence of everything?
< 1274316210 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would think however that things should be weighted towards the good
< 1274316223 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or perhaps there is megaversal utopia
< 1274316236 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which in essence is a boat in a bottle.....
< 1274316252 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the doors are all shut behind them on the way into the final utopia...
< 1274316259 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no one might ever possibly be able to know...
< 1274316285 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i fancy the kabbalah as a super computing construct
< 1274316300 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps entities fall into or are weighted towards the various "buckets"
< 1274316322 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps some entities fit in all of the "buckets" in a even and distributed manner....
< 1274316612 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this here sdorand2 an esoteric programmer or just into esotericism? It's actually hard to tell.
< 1274316615 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1274316638 0 :charlls!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274316650 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do have a CS degree
< 1274316664 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funny thing is I can't code for shit, failed calculus at least three times...
< 1274316688 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but perhaps my biology is such that i see things in the fashion that I do...
< 1274316702 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that I can't improve myself...
< 1274316719 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's a hard thing to debate given the lack of full knowledge..
< 1274316734 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering I can barely write *decent* solid code....
< 1274316763 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :programming in esoteric languages is likely not my cup of tea.....    could I understand it and do so.... perhaps...
< 1274316801 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is interesting how infinitary lambda calculus parallels various indian and buddhist texts
< 1274316814 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and its all essentially a code..... extrapolated over time and space....
< 1274316829 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was somehow seeded and/or multiseeded throughout the universe or megaverse...
< 1274316838 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the extents of the data however is quite horrific
< 1274316972 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :altair is interesting
< 1274316991 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i pretty much just debugged google, youtube and wikipedia
< 1274316992 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much did you code during your CS degree?
< 1274317008 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :autologic is interesting
< 1274317016 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CRGreathouse is interesting
< 1274317028 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OEIS is interesting
< 1274317065 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hoor-pa-kraat
< 1274317066 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : is interesting
< 1274317085 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sao tome
< 1274317089 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :93beast
< 1274317091 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :enom
< 1274317106 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hyperworks
< 1274317124 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JPL
< 1274317125 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NASA
< 1274317132 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :books that seem to exist just as I'm "accessing them"
< 1274317157 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wolframalpha
< 1274317164 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Leibniz
< 1274317202 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some google antifraud company (can't think of the name right now)
< 1274317268 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i barely coded anything
< 1274317269 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact nothing
< 1274317411 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, no wonder you did so poorly.
< 1274317420 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps i transcend coding
< 1274317462 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if its ALL CODED..... (mostly) then what?
< 1274317485 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the code is in the individual atoms and the extents of ALL OF IT have basically been found.... then what?
< 1274317529 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do however have some handwritten theories on security
< 1274317553 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but whether they are original or simply another part of the code shaking the bits out into reality in some fashion is beyond me
< 1274317559 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and perhaps they already exist
< 1274317710 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your assertion of my poor performance is unfounded
< 1274317718 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and relative
< 1274317736 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to your bias
< 1274317738 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and perspective
< 1274317751 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but perhaps you have access to constructs deeper than I
< 1274317771 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or perhaps you don't
< 1274317877 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinitary and omega logic is interesting
< 1274317896 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as are Malament-Hogarth spacetimes...
< 1274317914 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps there are even Quantum relativistic infinitary spacetime theories
< 1274318111 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when do we increase the quantum relativistic var metalove?
< 1274318197 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Seriously man WTF?
< 1274318228 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you tell me
< 1274318246 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would that I could.
< 1274318340 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps the esoteric languages I perceive transcend those you are even aware of
< 1274318355 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or perhaps I should just go and watch cartoons and drink a beer
< 1274318586 0 :cheater2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1274318587 0 :P4!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Disconnecting from stoned server.
< 1274318587 0 :P4!p4@89.248.165.11 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274318587 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what kind of AI is hooked up to "." on the internet?
< 1274318587 0 :cheater2!~cheater@ip-80-226-234-136.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274318587 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or perhaps it is an AI that comes in wireless to the heads of all of humanity
< 1274318587 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tech Email:shadowarts@nonlogic.org
< 1274318587 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Safari canâ€™t open the page â€śhttp://pikhq.nonlogic.org/â€ť because Safari canâ€™t connect to the server â€śpikhq.nonlogic.orgâ€ť.
< 1274318587 0 :77CAAOPPI!~cheater@ip-80-226-234-136.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274318587 0 :77CAAOPPI!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274318688 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Too much philosophhy
< 1274318733 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is conficker a virus to be used for global awakening?
< 1274318736 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps
< 1274318841 0 :ws!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ...
< 1274318955 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bucky?
< 1274320941 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274322213 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :today was amusing in here
< 1274322246 0 :cheater2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello
< 1274322257 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jello
< 1274322647 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1274322740 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1274322951 0 :Zuu!zuu@0x55529f1b.adsl.cybercity.dk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274322952 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host
< 1274322952 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274323136 0 :Gregor-P!~androirc@72-62-24-165.pools.spcsdns.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274323152 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274323154 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hellooooooo :)
< 1274323202 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I CAN'T HEAR YOU, TALK LOUDER
< 1274323244 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feh!
< 1274323245 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1274323293 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gregor the gullible
< 1274323891 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274324078 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274324522 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1274325324 0 :Gregor!~Gregor@67-129-37-226.dia.static.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274325980 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sdorand2 uses too many ...
< 1274326021 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i try to balance it out by using none
< 1274326059 0 :aschueler!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1274326111 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274326172 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you should talk more
< 1274326250 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: No way
< 1274326282 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I need a language called Knife
< 1274326401 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ideas for constructing one?
< 1274326469 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1274326617 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274327124 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: it should involve cutting of something
< 1274327412 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@74.13.126.43 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274328064 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274328406 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274328418 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274328711 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274328978 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274329370 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274331163 0 :comex_!comex@c-98-210-192-54.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274331178 0 :Oranjer1!~HP_Admini@adsl-243-203-60.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274331205 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services
< 1274331211 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Oranjer
< 1274331338 0 :ZeroOne_!~vsaalo@kekkonen.cs.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274331353 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274331364 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274331379 0 :lifthras1ir!b0zWFmPE@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274331394 0 :ineiros_!~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274331465 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1274331465 0 :ZeroOne!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1274331465 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1274331626 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1274331626 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1274331626 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1274331841 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1274331878 0 :Mathnerd314_!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274331903 0 :Mathnerd314_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Mathnerd314
< 1274333436 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274333455 0 :uorygl!~Warrigal@rrcs-70-63-156-144.midsouth.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274333488 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274333502 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274333517 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@74.13.126.43 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274333756 0 :uorygl!~Warrigal@rrcs-70-63-156-144.midsouth.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274334633 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274335475 0 :Gregor!~Gregor@67-129-37-226.dia.static.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274337274 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274337906 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274338165 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274338421 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274338423 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274338759 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1274338813 0 :mtve!~mtve@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274339251 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274339295 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1274339417 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274340716 0 :cheater2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274340740 0 :cheater2!~cheater@ip-80-226-234-136.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274341868 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1274342122 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274342233 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1274342263 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~chatzilla@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274342399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1274342400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274343315 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274343865 0 :gm|lap!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274343946 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I am leaving. You are about to explode.
< 1274344650 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1274346624 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274346637 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274347278 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274347284 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274347286 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274347290 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274347751 0 :Mathnerd314_!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274347783 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1274347810 0 :Mathnerd314_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Mathnerd314
< 1274350090 0 :ws!wswieb@akson.sgh.waw.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274350512 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, ws.
< 1274350664 0 :ws!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey :-)
< 1274350941 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to the BBC: "Facebook has more than 400 million users sharing 25 billion things a month"
< 1274350971 0 :P4!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host
< 1274350971 0 :P4!p4@unaffiliated/p4 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274350974 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice to know that the BBC are upholding their high statistical standards.
< 1274351091 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I *really* need to stop using that script that changes random words to "your mum".
< 1274351179 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1274351834 0 :cheater2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do people wake me up in the morning
< 1274351837 0 :cheater2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what have i done to them
< 1274352090 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274352137 0 :cheater2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274352184 0 :cheater2!~cheater@ip-80-226-234-136.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274352751 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274352992 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ilua
< 1274353193 0 :ws!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ...
< 1274353602 0 :cheater2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274353635 0 :cheater2!~cheater@ip-80-226-234-136.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274353855 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274356697 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274357049 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274357248 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:37:14 <cheater2> why do people wake me up in the morning
< 1274357248 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:37:17 <cheater2> what have i done to them
< 1274357266 0 :cheater2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1274357266 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you were genghis khan in a previous life.
< 1274357270 0 :cheater2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you got an answer
< 1274357273 0 :cheater2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i was
< 1274357278 0 :cheater2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i... STILL AM!!!! AHAHGAHGHAGH
< 1274357284 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoops
< 1274358155 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274358518 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274361087 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1274361087 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1274361276 0 :EgoBot!~EgoBot@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274361276 0 :Deewiant!~deewiant@kekkonen.cs.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274362261 0 :ws!wswieb@akson.sgh.waw.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274362556 0 :cheater3!~cheater@ip-80-226-242-164.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274362670 0 :cheater2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1274362749 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1274363465 0 :hiato!~fdulu@41-135-6-154.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274364259 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274367059 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1274367496 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did i mention i 'finished' my first 'esoteric' prog lang ?
< 1274367601 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cant decide on what seems to be a very simple syntactical decision
< 1274367642 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, i have functions that return a value.. what i have now is:  ! "return value"
< 1274367666 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesnt feel right, i started out with:   -> "return value"
< 1274367708 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That didnt feel right either, both seem annoying to write, and they doesnt blend in well :/
< 1274367805 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-7-64.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274368144 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, what about:
< 1274368149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<- "return value"
< 1274368161 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming that can be interpreted as "pointing out" of a function
< 1274368168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on the rest of the syntax of course
< 1274368214 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in something like a "classical" syntax (think, C, LISP, ...) it could be interpreted that way. But of course in some esolangs that metaphor makes no sense
< 1274368646 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274368653 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: good suggestion indeed, but as you mention, i think it will be confusing based on the other syntax i have :)
< 1274368775 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually it might be a quite silly question of me, since i dont say anything about the other syntax. Stupid me... I will make a description of the language soon, maybe then, there will be some qualified suggestions :P
< 1274368837 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just needs to fix some implementation details, to prevent stack overflow on very small programs
< 1274368891 0 :cheater3!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274368944 0 :cheater3!~cheater@ip-80-226-242-164.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274369053 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~chatzilla@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274370418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1274371183 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274371759 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@150.140.227.55 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274372708 0 :AnMaster!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274373047 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :three
< 1274373058 0 :three!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :hiato
< 1274373286 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-0-73.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274373609 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :AquaLoqua
< 1274373623 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274374240 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274374251 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1274374734 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is nothing happeningâ€˝
< 1274374743 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I demand that something happen!
< 1274375094 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274375117 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-0-73.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274375624 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, you missed hilarity on Google I/O
< 1274375641 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Earlier, someone demoed using the microphone to make a call
< 1274375665 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then, when it came time to try playing music, ... the call was still running
< 1274375766 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google I/O?
< 1274375834 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am confuzzled.
< 1274375852 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know not of these conferences.
< 1274375934 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/GoogleDevelopers
< 1274375938 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's about Android today
< 1274376052 0 :AquaLoqua!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: underflow
< 1274376156 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i use too many what?
< 1274376538 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274376927 0 :adu!~ajr@pool-173-66-252-179.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274377816 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1274378056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net
< 1274378059 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274378072 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274378089 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274378840 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1274378851 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@150.140.227.55 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274379285 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: adu
< 1274379400 0 :elliottcable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric
< 1274380211 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed.
< 1274380274 0 :P4!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1274380319 0 :P4!P4@unaffiliated/p4 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274380589 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1274380627 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274380675 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~chatzilla@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274380760 0 :CT|P4!p4@89.248.165.11 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274380773 0 :P4!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: has just left his bouncer
< 1274380805 0 :P4!P4@unaffiliated/p4 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274381155 0 :P4!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: has just left his bouncer
< 1274381231 0 :CT|P4!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host
< 1274381231 0 :CT|P4!p4@unaffiliated/p4 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274381232 0 :CT|P4!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :P4
< 1274381650 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1274382540 0 :subway24!~gabrielb@c-68-80-9-150.hsd1.nj.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274382557 0 :subway24!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey guys
< 1274382570 0 :subway24!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im gay
< 1274382583 0 :subway24!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1274383192 0 :hiato!~fdulu@41-135-6-154.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274383261 0 :ws!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: [BX] Bob Barker uses BitchX. Have your BitchX spayed or neutered.
< 1274383264 0 :impomatic!~chatzilla@87.113.249.101 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274383420 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally! Do you happen to be aware of any JVM bytecode similarity measures? I have these six provided example programs, 44 student submissions, and approximately one hour of time to waste, so manual inspection is not feasible. (I did find few links with Google, but I don't think I saw anything very finished.)
< 1274383505 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Run it and see what happens?
< 1274383610 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've ran them all, but what I want is to find out if anyone of them has ripped most of their code from one of the provided examples.
< 1274383617 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :diff?
< 1274383668 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, I guess I could diff, but I'd like a bit more sensible similarity measure. Something that's not defeated by changing variable names and newline placement.
< 1274383704 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look at the code with a hex editor and check for obvious similarities?
< 1274383719 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've connected via telnet to a HP3000 system. Does anyone know how I can download a file?
< 1274383747 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If my fellow students in my computing class could rip off example programs I'd hold much more respect for them than I do now...
< 1274383756 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly I could ran some diffs on the JVM disassembly. (I think that was approximately what one of the google-hits was doing.)
< 1274383911 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Contact Brenda Baker, bsb@bell-labs.com, for information about licensing the software from Lucent Technologies.
< 1274384070 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: How does that help me notice similarities?
< 1274384092 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's from the paper "Deducing Similarities in Java Sources from Bytecodes"
< 1274384107 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. The title sounds somewhat familiar.
< 1274384126 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's four of the top ten results when I googled it
< 1274384128 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need these ready by tomorrow. I hope Brenda's awake.
< 1274384254 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, okay, this one hasn't changed the variable names. The newline placement is changed, however.
< 1274384284 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And for some reason there are spurious parentheses here and there.)
< 1274384462 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my computing class, you aren't even taught to indent your code...
< 1274384682 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit.. dubious to return to me code I've written myself. On the other hand, (a) this is not really a programming course, (b) using some from-the-web example code has been traditionally allowed, (c) the person has added sensible comments in my completely uncommented code, and (d) the report describes quite well what it's all about.
< 1274384695 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I guess I'll have to let it slide. It just feels somehow sleazy still.
< 1274384937 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of copying, two out of four of the participants so far have copied the minimax pseudocode directly from the Wikipedia article, without citing it. (One of those two mentions the article in the "references" section; the other does not have a "references" section.)
< 1274385128 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: underflow
< 1274385371 0 :hiato!~fdulu@41-135-6-154.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274385631 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1274385648 0 :hiato!~fdulu@41-135-6-154.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274385674 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1274385920 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274385950 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION finds those "Compensation for scam victims" spams slightly amusing
< 1274385980 0 :hiato!~fdulu@41-135-6-154.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274385988 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least they have the right intended target audience, yessir
< 1274386143 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Phantom_Hoover> I demand that something happen!
< 1274386150 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats Phantom_Hoover -----###
< 1274386158 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we aim to please
< 1274386207 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<sdorand2> so i use too many what?
< 1274386222 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..., aka ellipses?
< 1274386261 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wasn't the one who claimed that, anyhow
< 1274386473 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that's what I said
< 1274386490 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't it usually "she"?
< 1274386542 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what he said
< 1274386616 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: we are quite liberal here
< 1274386755 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1274386982 0 :uorygl!~Warrigal@rrcs-70-63-156-144.midsouth.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274387795 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!~chatzilla@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274387804 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274387805 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274387806 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Phantom_Hoover
< 1274388828 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274389245 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grrr... I've spent the last two hours trying to download a file :-(
< 1274389343 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do, or do not. There is no try.
< 1274389458 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do, or wnload.
< 1274389599 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: you mentioned something about telnet, so i assume this server does not have ssh?
< 1274389627 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it a large file?
< 1274389647 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure.  I just can't figure the command to download it.  Or even how to navigate to the file.
< 1274389670 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't recall telnet having a file download command anyway
< 1274389678 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um you cannot _find_ the file?
< 1274389691 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i may just not know of it)
< 1274389789 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the server has ssh, then my suggestion would be to use scp from your client machine
< 1274389816 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :telnet:198.212.189.111 login = "HELLO USER.CSLXL" then navigate through the menus 1, 9, 6, 6
< 1274389830 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the package I want to download. However I can't view it and I can't find the file when I start the shell
< 1274389850 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The machine is a HP3000 running MPE
< 1274389858 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever that is.
< 1274389890 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Back in a minute, need to reboot.
< 1274389894 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.9/20100315083431]
< 1274389932 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think my terminal likes the menus
< 1274390047 0 :impomatic!~chatzilla@87.113.249.101 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274390133 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: What can be done after 1,9,6,6
< 1274390148 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing that I can see.
< 1274390160 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can make out little of the screen, it's not compatible with my terminal
< 1274390164 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MPE enters the shell, but I can't navigate to the files.
< 1274390217 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You may download programs using Minisoft or Reflection. Some configuration may be needed." :-P
< 1274390749 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I completely killed my terminal program.  I can't even reinstall it :-(
< 1274390773 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_o
< 1274390947 0 :Mappedd!~Janne@dsl-lprbrasgw1-fe9dfa00-26.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274391135 0 :Mappedd!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1274391300 0 :ws!wswieb@akson.sgh.waw.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274391322 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274391360 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274391402 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~chatzilla@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274391446 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1274392396 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find calculus to be increasingly shaky.
< 1274392437 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The +c s are treated inconsistently.
< 1274392556 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: That is a pretty solid silence.
< 1274392582 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure there are some slipups there
< 1274392630 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sometimes you _can_ leave out the +c, like if you need just one antiderivative
< 1274392645 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it doesn't have to be general
< 1274392681 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and one such case is when you use it immediately to calculate a definite integral)
< 1274392743 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHZzObQUgE8
< 1274393155 0 :golden!~5d883e7d@gateway/web/freenode/x-coamanjignbcnpxa JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274393166 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@150.140.227.55 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274393268 0 :golden!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1274393468 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I understand the http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTv6fFLVi4Q much better
< 1274393900 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274394665 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274394908 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1274395086 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1274395311 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.9/20100315083431]
< 1274395404 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1274395436 0 :charlls!~charlls@201.226.222.130 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274396536 0 :ZeroOne_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ZeroOne
< 1274396620 0 :cheater4!~cheater@ip-80-226-242-164.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274396726 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274396915 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1274396915 0 :cheater3!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1274396915 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1274396947 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274396957 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274397195 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274397214 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274397640 0 :charlls!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274397903 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274397947 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: null
< 1274398532 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1274398614 0 :uorygl!~Warrigal@rrcs-70-63-156-144.midsouth.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274399478 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274399554 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1274399758 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :pikhq
< 1274399999 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274400092 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1274400265 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :pikhq
< 1274400410 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1274400442 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274400828 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1274400999 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274401164 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274401249 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Playing with Brainfuck again makes me realise how very silly some of the Brainfuck code out there is...
< 1274401266 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :><?
< 1274401268 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<>?
< 1274401270 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :][?
< 1274401273 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :][
< 1274401278 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O
< 1274401289 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's in a *lot* of Brainfuck code.
< 1274401320 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the same person/tool?
< 1274401336 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. Just all over the place.
< 1274401343 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was even in some version of awib...
< 1274401365 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe to make things look pretty
< 1274401372 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(though really, Piet is better for that)
< 1274401421 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually. It's technically *still* in awib.
< 1274401425 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it happen to be ][-] by any chance?
< 1274401435 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes.
< 1274401450 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet a lot of people just know [-] to 0 a cell and do it even without realizing the cell is cleared
< 1274401458 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"technically"?
< 1274401605 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274401722 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1274401724 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LostKng loses 2105 characters after a simple dead-code eliminiation pass.
< 1274401728 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :][insert comment here]
< 1274401771 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, my Haskell brainfuck interpreter has something that does that
< 1274401805 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I modified an interpreter's parser into doing that. :P
< 1274402054 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1274402185 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274402204 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1274402706 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1274402954 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274403249 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-243-203-60.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274403377 0 :Vegabondmx!~Vegabonds@unaffiliated/vegabondsx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274403504 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274403522 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274403635 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1274403910 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1274403945 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274403946 0 :augur!~augur@pool-74-96-12-99.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274404089 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1274404220 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274404391 0 :Zuu!zuu@0x55529f1b.adsl.cybercity.dk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274404391 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host
< 1274404392 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274404688 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1274404702 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274404888 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274405096 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274405874 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274405905 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1274406179 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1274406266 0 :augur!~augur@pool-74-96-11-28.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274406578 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1274406690 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving...
< 1274406836 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274406995 0 :Gregor-L!~Gregor@75-151-73-57-Spokane.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274407415 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274407432 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274407508 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Gregor
< 1274407978 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274408007 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while(1)if(rand())drop(freenode);
< 1274408067 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1274408272 0 :Vegabondmx!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1274408276 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1274408445 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274408498 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1274408531 0 :ws!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ...
< 1274408533 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274408953 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't if(rand()) almost always go to the "then" branch?
< 1274409052 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1274409060 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note how often I'm being dropped.
< 1274409421 0 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274409422 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274409471 0 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274409577 0 :cheater4!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1274409760 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274410418 0 :augur!~augur@pool-74-96-11-28.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274410892 0 :Vegabondmx!~Vegabonds@unaffiliated/vegabondsx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274410967 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274411315 0 :Vegabondmx!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 271 seconds
< 1274411364 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: yikes :P
< 1274411482 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274411828 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1274412481 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274413575 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night
< 1274413862 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm learning about SVD
< 1274413899 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... and trying to come up with interesting places I can apply it
< 1274414479 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274416397 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274416836 0 :Vegabondmx!~Vegabonds@unaffiliated/vegabondsx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274416836 0 :Vegabondmx!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1274418714 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1274419513 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1274419583 0 :augur!~augur@96.231.228.59 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274419658 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@bas5-toronto47-2925110102.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274420041 0 :gm|lap!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274420202 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Bye
< 1274420206 0 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274420521 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1274422741 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274424525 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274425054 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274425061 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274425371 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274425429 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1274427201 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Bye
< 1274428042 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1274428118 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~chatzilla@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274428380 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1274428799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1274428800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274429662 0 :atrapado!~rodrigo@193.144.79.241 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274430696 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1274430910 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: null
< 1274431103 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274434447 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274435431 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274436554 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1274436900 0 :Slereah!~jews@ANantes-259-1-59-162.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274437619 0 :lereah_!~lereah@nanpc301.in2p3.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274438892 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274439414 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274439673 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@150.140.227.55 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274439721 0 :cheater2!~cheater@ip-80-226-47-20.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274440211 0 :cheater2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1274440240 0 :cheater2!~cheater@ip-80-226-47-20.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274441611 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ilua
< 1274441664 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-140-214.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274441953 0 :hiato!~fdulu@41-135-6-154.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274443386 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1274443401 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if befunge used a queue instead of a stack: http://www.kongregate.com/games/PleasingFungus/manufactoria
< 1274443429 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been playing this for 3.5 hours straight :/
< 1274443454 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and also if it had more limited operations etc.)
< 1274443757 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274444037 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah, you horrible horrible person. I have a stack of reports to grade, I can't get stuck in some Flash game now.
< 1274444186 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274445282 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@129.241.210.68 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274445573 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: also uses queue automata, which are equivalent in power to turing machines but less expressive
< 1274445590 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so less expressive it can be painful to fit it in the damn grid :/
< 1274445704 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, GRADE YOUR REPORTS
< 1274445711 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hth
< 1274446021 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274446078 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It didn't help, I'm still twiddling the game.
< 1274446092 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only have three more reports to go, though.
< 1274446931 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Saliendo
< 1274447573 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, meh. I don't have enough patience to do these in a turing machine, let alone the queue automata we're forced to use
< 1274447595 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I shall come back another time... that was a fun 4.5 hours though, til it got tedius
< 1274447597 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tedious
< 1274447729 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274447851 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did those up to and including the first six-level column in the "map" (plus a one from the second), but now I really need to read those reports.
< 1274448110 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1274449445 0 :lifthras1ir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: a lot better than other programming games i found in Kongregate. good.
< 1274449449 0 :lifthras1ir!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :lifthrasiir
< 1274450384 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1274452081 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does it compare with RoboZZle?
< 1274454541 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274455338 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Sgego
< 1274455965 0 :Gregor-L!~Gregor@67-129-37-226.dia.static.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274457768 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@ix.ceid.upatras.gr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274458270 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~chatzilla@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274458728 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1274458919 0 :lereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274459085 0 :Zuu!zuu@0x55529f1b.adsl.cybercity.dk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274459085 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host
< 1274459086 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274459418 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274459592 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274459615 0 :hiato!~fdulu@41-135-6-154.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274460022 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274460684 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1274460692 0 :AnMaster!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274460989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back for a very short period of time only
< 1274461002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(severe thunderstorm expected
< 1274461003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :)
< 1274461888 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274462666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net
< 1274463655 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274463677 0 :hiato!~fdulu@41-135-6-154.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274463704 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274463974 0 :hiato!~fdulu@41-135-6-154.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274465079 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah, alise isn't going to show up, is he?
< 1274465105 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274465478 0 :Sgego!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What time does he usually show up on Friday?
< 1274465482 0 :Sgego!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And did you get my memo?
< 1274465658 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm...
< 1274465687 0 :impomatic!~chatzilla@87.113.249.101 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274465688 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got it now.
< 1274466200 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-92-6.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274466236 0 :cheater2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1274466240 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274466429 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1274466813 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Cthulhu play.
< 1274466823 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man was not meant to adapt some things to musical theatre.
< 1274467367 0 :Sgego!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Igors did not believe in "Forbidden Knowledge" and "Things Man Was Not Meant To Know" but obviously there were /some/ things a man was not meant to know, such as what it felt like to have every single particle of your body sucked into a little hole, and that seemed to be one of the options available in the imediate future.
< 1274467376 0 :Sgego!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--Terry Pratchett, Theif of Time
< 1274467380 0 :Sgego!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Thief
< 1274467767 0 :Sgego!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Station V3's website is down!
< 1274467774 0 :Sgego!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, the comic site
< 1274467792 0 :Sgego!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If Station V3 actually had a website, it would probably suck me into a dimensional portal or something
< 1274468175 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274468178 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-10-135.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274468665 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's that nice line in Thief of Time I've quoted earlier too.
< 1274468672 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"And never, ever Ask Questions. Admittedly, Igor knew, that meant never ask BIG questions. 'Would thur like a cup of tea around now?' was fine, but 'What do you need a hundred virginth for?' or 'Where do you ecthpect me to find a brain at thith time of night?' was not. An Igor stood for loyal, dependable, discreet service with a smile, or at least a sort of lopsided grin, or possibly just a curved scar in the right place."
< 1274469407 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274470355 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What kind of a grading system is 3/5?
< 1274470454 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It's actually 0/3/5, and those are just arbitrary numbers to encode the "fail", "no change to course grade", "increment course grade by one" semantics.
< 1274470511 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using numbers like that seems strange to me :-P
< 1274470528 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, perhaps. I've kept it from previous years.
< 1274470541 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's some sort of official way that sort of thing is represented in the OSR, but I can't remember what it is.
< 1274470548 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's possible that it should be 0/1/2 instead.
< 1274470568 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you had to use numbers I'd use 0/1/2, but if not I'd use something like F/P/P+
< 1274470618 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or g--/g/g++
< 1274470637 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That should be g=0/g/g++ then, and the increment is also clamped.
< 1274470657 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's 0/3/5 because (of course) the normal 0...5 scale, but admittedly it's a bit weird to use just 3 and 5 there.
< 1274470736 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I could use some Unicode characters. âą/âş/â», maybe.
< 1274470770 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now if only those were properly visible without large font sizes
< 1274470776 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah, I got two bounces from the Noppa announcement this time.
< 1274470789 0 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274470803 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One "forwarded more than maximum times" and one "over quota".
< 1274470895 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Is â /â™ˇ/â† more readable? The skull-and-crossbones might not be.
< 1274470937 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, in my current configuration (Windows / PuTTY / DejaVu Sans Mono 10pt) it's better but not much
< 1274470949 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if I fill those two? â™Ą/â…, I mean.
< 1274470981 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I doubt the OSR system can take that.)
< 1274470992 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still better; pasting it into Firefox's address bar all three are actually legible :-)
< 1274472154 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's about time someone invented a decent language that can be compiled into Life.
< 1274472894 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only think preventing it is a decent way of doing arrays. :P
< 1274472913 0 :Sgego!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When does alise normally show up here?
< 1274472941 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bit before now, or at the beginning of next waking.
< 1274473827 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274474754 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He'd better turn up soon.
< 1274474762 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ashes to Ashes is on next.
< 1274474786 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION never watches TV
< 1274475618 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Must wathc,
< 1274477537 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274477554 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1274477981 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274478109 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:11:18 <Sgego> What time does he usually show up on Friday?
< 1274478119 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lately, he doesn't seem to show up before saturday
< 1274478142 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274478228 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1274478840 0 :tombom_!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274479038 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1274479306 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~chatzilla@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274479331 0 :cheater2!~cheater@ip-80-226-243-255.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274480389 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY IS NOTHING HAPPENING?
< 1274480401 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Xyzzy
< 1274480407 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because your mother's a whore.
< 1274480412 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing happens...
< 1274480477 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone recognise this language? It looks like odd Pascal to me: http://corewar.co.uk/droid/droidsrc.txt
< 1274480845 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could be any weird ALGOLesque language.
< 1274480865 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BASIC?
< 1274480895 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know Basic, though.
< 1274481015 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sort of looks like basic to me, if only it wasnt ebcause it has single quotes all over, which i believe starts comments in Basic
< 1274481041 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never seen a basic like it.  It's also a bit weird for Pascal or Algol
< 1274481047 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks much closer to ALGOL than BASIC, although i don't really know ALGOL
< 1274481066 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BASIC uses = for assignment, not :=
< 1274481184 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm wait uses MOVE := , not just :=
< 1274481199 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, it varies
< 1274481308 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: Forget BASIC.
< 1274481337 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's from the same overall family as Pascal, i.e. stuff with Alogoly syntax.
< 1274481344 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it could be anything.
< 1274481375 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the types are put _before_ the variables, which means it's not pascal or its direct descendants
< 1274481390 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while ALGOL also does this
< 1274481522 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :pikhq
< 1274481604 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: oh did you get this from that HP / MPE thing?  a google search for some of the keywords led me to that
< 1274481623 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.adager.com/VeSoft/SystemTables.html very similar language
< 1274481664 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that must be the same one
< 1274481782 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah! "Note  that  although all the examples in  this paper are given in SPL,"
< 1274481861 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes it's from the HP
< 1274481881 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: http://www.robelle.com/smugbook/spl.html
< 1274481974 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was betting more on fortran
< 1274481986 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders why it says FOR is discouraged
< 1274482058 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where does it say that?
< 1274482070 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FOR is decadent and capitalist!
< 1274482090 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: in that last page
< 1274482242 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Algol FOR statements are ugly.
< 1274482321 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No cookies FOR you
< 1274482424 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now im bored, since the name of this language have been determined
< 1274482436 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had so much fun for 10 minutes :P
< 1274482448 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now implement it efficiently.
< 1274482476 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally. http://sprunge.us/YYca More Brainfuck compilation.
< 1274482488 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And why yes, it *does* leak memory. :P
< 1274482498 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, for 20 minutes ago, i was implementing a vm for my own language
< 1274482562 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Im sure i'll soon have fun tracing memory leaks for my own :P
< 1274482589 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes to fix said leaks
< 1274482641 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274482664 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1274482693 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is impressive how someone managed to introduce memory leaks into something that basically only needs to keep track of a single allocation
< 1274482807 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1274482851 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/ECMP
< 1274483122 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: underflow
< 1274483204 0 :tombom_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1274483240 0 :elliottcable!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Genie-Colas-Inc
< 1274483245 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The UCC is cool, but from what I can tell the language it uses *sucks*.
< 1274483294 0 :Genie-Colas-Inc!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :elliottcable
< 1274484034 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274484050 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1274484058 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274485090 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Reboot
< 1274485166 0 :AnMaster!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274485167 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is a UCC ?
< 1274485207 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1274485373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1274485379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, there?
< 1274485386 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1274485397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, know anything about software RAID under linux?
< 1274485401 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1274485406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well
< 1274485425 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie and/or Deewiant: there?
< 1274485794 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274485870 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am, but pretty busy.
< 1274486341 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274486419 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION virtually changes his homepage to google advanced search to escape the pacman
< 1274486827 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/homepage/start page/
< 1274486950 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm scratch that s///
< 1274487658 0 :elliottcable!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :HARPOONS
< 1274487739 0 :HARPOONS!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :elliottcable
< 1274487947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back
< 1274487963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well, do you know anything about software raid under linux
< 1274487969 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or dmraid or whatever
< 1274488192 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use it, but I'm very much not a specialist.
< 1274488281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, mdadm or dmraid?
< 1274488284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or are they the same=
< 1274488287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/=/?/
< 1274488333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, or is it some build in RAID on drive? As in, setup during bios
< 1274488336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my mobo has that
< 1274488346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm wondering if I should use it
< 1274488353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't know how much "hardware" it is
< 1274488363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect not a lot since iirc it needs special windows drivers
< 1274488378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but perhaps it does something in hardware...
< 1274488380 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From what I hear, the Linux software raid usually works better. (Unless you need Windows compatibility.)
< 1274488392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, don't need windows at all :)
< 1274488413 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there *are* some motherboard with real RAID controllers integrated, it's just that most are not.
< 1274488415 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, but can I do RAID apart from on a tiny bit of the disk? it seems pointless to do RAID on the swap
< 1274488434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, VIA VT8237
< 1274488452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the controller in question
< 1274488468 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's close to what I have, though I think the RAID bit is by someone else; I think it's pretty softwarey thing.
< 1274488486 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, or "had"; it seems I've switched motherboards at some point.
< 1274488543 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And RAID on swap is not pointless, for stability reasons; you don't want a disk crash to potentially kill your system when it takes swapped-out programs with it.
< 1274488559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange... I have two 1 TB devices. Same model. Same speed. SMART extended polling time differs (171 minutes vs. 167 minutes)
< 1274488561 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have hot-swap-capable anything, though, so I didn't bother with swap-on-raid either.
< 1274488573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the "recommended" estimate
< 1274488576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty strange
< 1274488613 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yes, you can partition the disks however you want, and then select (preferrably same-sized) partitions to build a raid array from.
< 1274488613 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death
< 1274488636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so you could do RAID 1 on everything except swap (and do RAID 0 on that :D)
< 1274488662 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, though you don't need RAID 0 on swap, you can just make two separate swap devices. The kernel's supposed to be smart enough to utilize them in a stripingy way.
< 1274488672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how do you handle /boot? Do you need an initramfs if / is on RAID 1?
< 1274488723 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably, though it's been possible to build raid support as non-modules and have the kernel automagically bring the / array up at boot-time.
< 1274488747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I would prefer to avoid initramfs
< 1274488755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, but yeah how do you handle /boot?
< 1274488759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and grub
< 1274488793 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: On a RAID-1, all you need to do is install the bootloader into each individual drive's MBR if you want to be able to boot off of any arbitrary drive.
< 1274488801 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Currently I don't, since my system stuff (/boot, /, /usr, /var) is on that non-RAID SSD (I don't really have money for 2*SSD here...) and I just regularly back it up to the terabyte-or-so /home.
< 1274488821 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since grub doesn't *write* anything, it'll just see a fairly normal partition for /boot.
< 1274488830 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yes, grub can boot from a /boot that's on a raid-1 array.
< 1274488846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1274488849 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does write things if you do "savedefault", I think there was some sort of a potential issue for that.
< 1274488863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm will have to stop using savedefault then
< 1274488868 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, there's potential issues with that...
< 1274488899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still what about /? And avoiding initramfs that is
< 1274488902 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless it saves in the MBR, that'll just break, and if it does save in the MBR, then it won't propogate to other drives.
< 1274488913 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus I want to do lvm2 for everything except /
< 1274488923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(on top of raid that is)
< 1274488945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, it saves in a file in /boot, which is created to have a fixed size
< 1274488952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it won't have to change the file size
< 1274488966 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Then it'll break a RAID-1.
< 1274488973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep I can see that
< 1274488973 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a MBR-saving patch, though.
< 1274488986 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274489000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, wouldn't help for EFI (not that I have that)
< 1274489019 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For EFI, I'm sure you can prepare an even nicer place for storing that.
< 1274489040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1274489042 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly that boot-loader storage-place GRUB wants on EFI disks, or however it worked, can't recall.
< 1274489055 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still won't propagate to the other drive(s), though.
< 1274489107 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how non-module raid-support brings up the / array nowadays. It might be that it Just Works (tm).
< 1274489120 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LVM on top of the raid is of course no problem, I do that too.
< 1274489184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how did that non-module raid stuff use to work?
< 1274489237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION imagines RAID on LVM on dmcrypt on RAID on LVM
< 1274489238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch
< 1274489274 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: GRUB1 does not handle EFI.
< 1274489282 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And GRUB2 handles RAID and LVM natively.
< 1274489287 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... *And* EFI.
< 1274489293 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC (and this might be wrong), there was some sort of kludge that it sniffed likely/listed-as-an-argument device partitions for RAID array metadata blobs, and brought easily assemblable stuff up.
< 1274489324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, XD
< 1274489344 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: From mdadm --auto-detect, which starts kernel auto-detected arrays: "This can only work if md is compiled into the kernel - not if it is a module. Arrays can be auto-detected by the kernel if all the components are in primary MS-DOS partitions with partition type FD."
< 1274489371 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Linux RAID partitions have their own partition type. And those partitions have metadata on them.
< 1274489374 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also "not recommended for new installations -- using mdadm to detect and assemble -- possibly in an initrd -- more flexible and should be preferred" and so on and so on.
< 1274489404 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes, I know that.
< 1274489410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, but I hate initrd
< 1274489423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm proud my desktop manages without it
< 1274489438 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: initramfs is a bit nicer.
< 1274489445 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, not much
< 1274489449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it manages without it too
< 1274489450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1274489460 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :initrd loads a filesystem into /dev/ram0 and mounts it.
< 1274489468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, it makes a difference in boot time, I measured stock kernel and custom kernel
< 1274489473 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :initramfs unpacks a cpio into a tmpfs that's mounted on root.
< 1274489484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stock kernel had only the modules needed on the actual initramfs
< 1274489490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some 10 seconds difference
< 1274489519 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, initramfs always exists on Linux 2.6.
< 1274489533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, embedded?
< 1274489547 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1274489566 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, anyway it might be supported but if you don't use it?
< 1274489577 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then there will still be one.
< 1274489589 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is one compiled in.
< 1274489591 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, a dummy one provided by the kernel?
< 1274489594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which does what=
< 1274489598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/=/?/
< 1274489602 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not much by default.
< 1274489619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, where are the files for it in the kernel source?
< 1274489643 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION does not recall
< 1274489654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION files a bug against pikhq ;P
< 1274489688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Memory issues"
< 1274489702 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks
< 1274489746 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone here on a Mac?
< 1274490645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just realised harddrives have a realtime clock...
< 1274490664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be able to put into the SMART data the time of the event
< 1274490671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in hours of usage)
< 1274490696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well might not technically be a realtime clock
< 1274491062 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: sdorand2
< 1274491417 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1274492747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net
< 1274492859 0 :Slereah!~jews@ANantes-259-1-59-162.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274493463 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Gregor
< 1274493563 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Thanks to a millennium of meticulous record-keeping, Icelanders are a genetically perfect people."
< 1274493566 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's probably true.
< 1274494570 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1274494679 0 :uorygl!~Warrigal@rrcs-70-63-156-144.midsouth.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274496351 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1274497654 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274497729 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274498847 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1274500225 0 :augur!~augur@pool-108-56-54-3.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274501458 0 :sdorand!~sdorand@pool-98-114-198-98.phlapa.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274501828 0 :sdorand!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1274502748 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
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< 1274504119 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@bas5-toronto47-2925110102.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274505577 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1274505956 0 :sdorand!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1274506061 0 :Rugxulo!~rugxulo@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1274506542 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274506791 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274508030 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1274508138 0 :Slereah!~jews@ANantes-259-1-59-162.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274508507 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night
< 1274510889 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Rugxulo
< 1274511713 0 :adu!~ajr@pool-173-66-252-179.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274513110 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I ran into a surprisingly ridiculous problem today.
< 1274513118 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted to benchmark a browser's /rendering/ performance.
< 1274513132 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1274513148 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To that end, I was going to render a bunch of random stuff from JS in a loop, using setTimeout(..., 0) to yield to the browser so it would actually render.
< 1274513169 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, the event loop in every major browser seems to be timer-based, not truly event based.
< 1274513188 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So on e.g. Firefox, that just ends up rendering something once every 10ms.
< 1274513211 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I can tell, there is no way (from JavaScript) to render something, then immediately come back to JS.
< 1274513214 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*annoying*
< 1274513561 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION really, really likes Tremulous's AFD prank
< 1274513785 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure you can deduce any far-reaching conclusions about the browser's internals from that; it may be just that setTimeout(..., N) even for N=0 always uses a timer of that resolution, and doesn't just post a do-some-JS event.
< 1274513828 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually tried various alternatives to setTimeout.
< 1274513838 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Generating DOM elements that create onload events that fire back to my JS, etc.
< 1274513852 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All had the same delay.
< 1274514057 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you happen to test with Opera? One of its dev pages said it renders stuff even during the JS event dispatch, while FF and others postpone it until you get out of JS stuff. (Anyhow, it's still very unpredictable and browser-dependent.)
< 1274514074 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't try with Opera. FF, Chrome, IE.
< 1274514097 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, it's all very depressing for people who actually want to measure rendering performance :P
< 1274514318 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was that one "canvas-rendering filters and show the FPS rate" benchmark floating around, you could try to see how that was done. Although it might use some canvas-specific trick. (Or just not care about a 10ms diff.)
< 1274514528 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor! fizzie! Sgeo_! :D
< 1274514539 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an agar!
< 1274514554 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With a u instead of a second a and an extra u!
< 1274514572 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur!
< 1274514578 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a logic/computing challenge for anyone who's interested :)
< 1274514586 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go listen to http://codu.org/music/op13/GRegor-op13-wipp3.ogg :P
< 1274514596 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :listening!
< 1274514643 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: did you write this?
< 1274514654 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, hence why it's on my web page :P
< 1274514666 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you mightve just recorded your performance
< 1274514669 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like it
< 1274514670 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its pretty
< 1274514675 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should go easy on the chords tho
< 1274514696 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Go easy on the chords"
< 1274514698 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haw
< 1274514703 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea what to make of that :P
< 1274514714 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, in the first minute and a half or so
< 1274514724 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are these times when you play chords
< 1274514728 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, so "the section before everything changes" :P
< 1274514731 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not arpegiated or anything, proper chords
< 1274514748 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you emphasized the chords more than the rest, if only slightly
< 1274514754 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should reverse that
< 1274514755 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
< 1274514763 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, now I understand your meaning.
< 1274514790 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you should extend the first part, because stylistically it makes wonderful melancholy jazz
< 1274514829 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's repeated thrice, it's sort of the refrain from the storm that is the rest of the piece.
< 1274514844 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah well
< 1274514857 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should write another piece that plays up those themes as its entirety
< 1274514862 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh
< 1274514871 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This piece is a work in progress, so you never know :P
< 1274514872 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it evoked much bladerunnerness for me
< 1274514881 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The end, for example, I will probably scrap entirely >_>
< 1274514901 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it needs to be more coherent too, btw.
< 1274514916 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like i said, the refrain is a bit jazzy
< 1274514929 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the rest is decidedly classical
< 1274514930 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of some sort
< 1274514951 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And ... there's a problem with that? I mean, that's straight-up intentional ...
< 1274514966 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, its just a bit disjointed, i feel
< 1274514976 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm.
< 1274514987 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for me, style is very closely associated with mood, and i cant get into this piece because it has no mood
< 1274515003 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it feels like a jumble of moods
< 1274515008 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is not itself a mood.
< 1274515043 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you were aiming for disorientation, or tumultuous psychology, or whatever, for me this doesnt capture it
< 1274515045 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, that to me is amusing, because the somewhat chaotic jumps back and forth between styles or moods is /exactly/ what I was going for X-D
< 1274515060 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because those are moods in and of themselves
< 1274515066 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not composed of the use of other moods
< 1274515089 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bouncing back and forth from cheerful to sombre doesnt create a "bipolar" mood
< 1274515096 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its simply two moods
< 1274515143 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think "bipolar" is an accurate description of what I was aiming for either :P
< 1274515152 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i know
< 1274515156 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was merely an example
< 1274515199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1274515200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274515229 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ilua
< 1274515381 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im not saying that a chaotic mood is easy to come up with on its own terms, mind you
< 1274515450 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, im fairly certain there is a blade runner song that you're unintentionally citing in this piece
< 1274515459 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, sorry, not blade runner
< 1274515467 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never seen that ... movie? I'm pretty sure that was a movie, right :P
< 1274515498 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it the song Clubbed2Death from the Matrix.
< 1274515511 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a piano interlude
< 1274515523 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and your piece is remeniscent of that
< 1274515562 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That I have seen ...
< 1274515563 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lesse
< 1274515651 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i think its not an interlude but an outro of sorts
< 1274515657 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no
< 1274515658 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here we go
< 1274515662 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :around 4:25
< 1274515678 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION listens to Opus 13, WIP3
< 1274515730 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm ... not hearing it, but maybe I have no perspective.
< 1274515745 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not a direct quote
< 1274515748 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its just an evocation
< 1274515752 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah
< 1274515780 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I think I get your connection then.
< 1274515792 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also feel I didn't lift anything, inadvertantly or otherwise :P
< 1274515809 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1274515817 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not lifting, its just evocation
< 1274515840 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Not bad so far.
< 1274515844 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are some two or three note progressions here or there that are similar across the pieces
< 1274515926 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1274515941 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ack, I need to sleep >_>
< 1274515952 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupid having to wake up while the clock reads AM.
< 1274515954 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feh
< 1274516119 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: My only complaint so far is that it feels *kinda* like you've got two seperate pieces going on here.
< 1274516131 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah
< 1274516139 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, roughly the same as augur's complaint.
< 1274516161 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should try to find some historical pieces that convey chaos and disarray
< 1274516171 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which I find unfortunate because A) that's pretty much what I was going for and B) if everybody's complaining about it then that means I did a terrible job at making it work :P
< 1274516174 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without combining stylistically different components in the way you did
< 1274516192 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :again, moods are not compositional
< 1274516200 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ... Rather than feeling more like a single piece that switches between calm and chaos.
< 1274516203 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you cannot take two moods, put them together, and get a third mood
< 1274516215 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just get the two moods.
< 1274516226 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no beat frequency
< 1274516228 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Yes, we all understand your calculus of moods at this point :P
< 1274516233 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no moire patterns
< 1274516241 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh if only it were so advanced as to be a calculus!
< 1274516261 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: The term "calculus" is much more general than you think. :)
< 1274516270 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not for me
< 1274516277 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im a formalist, remember
< 1274516284 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION still finds it amusing that the calculus of derivatives & integrals gets called just "calculus"
< 1274516298 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh
< 1274516305 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its the first calculus people are introduced to
< 1274516313 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably the only one ever called a calculus
< 1274516314 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still amusing.
< 1274516323 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They should bring the lambda calculus to middle school.
< 1274516328 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*cough*lambda calculus*cough*
< 1274516330 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: YES
< 1274516332 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so its entirely predictable that it would be called just calculus
< 1274516395 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lesse whether calculus gives a disambiguation page or the calculus of derivatives and integrals with a "for general calculi, see Calculus (disambiguation)"
< 1274516403 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(On Wikipedia)
< 1274516415 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohhhh, failzors
< 1274516920 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1274516931 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O
< 1274516934 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Night all
< 1274517006 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1274517384 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1274517857 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor!
< 1274517860 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq!
< 1274519525 0 :alise!~alise@91.105.70.71 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274519583 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When was the last time Phantom_Hoover was here?
< 1274519947 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise!
< 1274519954 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1274519965 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i havent spoken to soupdragon since her banning but according to her now im a troll.
< 1274519966 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1274520008 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's actually a remarkably long time talking to soupdragon before seeing her go batshit, at least if me and Phantom_Hoover are any guideline :P
< 1274520038 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what?
< 1274520085 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :She tended to start yelling incomprehensible things at me about once every two days, usually
< 1274520149 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crazy girl
< 1274520151 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well whatever
< 1274520153 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hows life
< 1274520163 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shit, as usual.
< 1274520206 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1274520206 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :::hug::
< 1274520246 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But at least the shitness is predictable.
< 1274520312 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meanwhile, the complexities of moving country continue to elude me.
< 1274520320 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :moving country
< 1274520320 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1274520334 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forgotten about the unit again? Come on!
< 1274520352 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but moving country?
< 1274520433 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~chatzilla@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274520440 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: has always been the exit plan.
< 1274520457 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where are you moving to? arent you a bit young to flee an entire country?
< 1274520501 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not like I'm the only person in this household who hates the unit.
< 1274520560 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh?
< 1274520629 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such as... the parental overlord?
< 1274520655 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your /parents/ are considering moving out of the country in order to get you out of the psych ward?
< 1274520887 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274521132 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Someone built a Life self-replicator.
< 1274521164 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, link?
< 1274521168 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How big is it?
< 1274521183 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.conwaylife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=399
< 1274521193 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's ~4000000 along each side.
< 1274521233 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Practical.
< 1274521240 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a spaceship.
< 1274521243 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So not really a replicator.
< 1274521254 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It *replicates itself*.
< 1274521257 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Replicators must leave theirselves behind.
< 1274521258 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO
< 1274521259 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274521266 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: By that definition a glider is a replicator
< 1274521287 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, because there are never two copies in existence at the same time.
< 1274521310 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough.
< 1274521320 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it would be easy to rewrite the program tape to disable the destruction arm.
< 1274521327 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"That would be the 13th spaceship velocity in Life attained so far."
< 1274521335 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that is the truly impressive thing about it, its speed :P
< 1274521355 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there has been a long-lasting search for an oblique spaceship.
< 1274521369 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oblique?
< 1274521400 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not diagonal or orthogonal.
< 1274521415 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah.
< 1274521458 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Keeping track of the spaceship velocities is pointless now, though.
< 1274521496 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't; this spaceship will only handle multiples of some N above a certain constant.
< 1274521556 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone mentioned a proof that a UC-based spaceship could go at any velocity less than c/2.
< 1274521584 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Greater, surely, not less.
< 1274521588 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, yes, theoretically, but this model not.
< 1274521604 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: What, so diagonal c/3?
< 1274521608 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is impossible.
< 1274521617 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> Greater, surely, not less. <-- no, less
< 1274521691 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The bounding box is 4217802x4220190 instead of 4217807x4220191 (I was too lazy to renormalize it to the original phase) and it moves correspondingly faster, (5120,1024)c/33699578. Let's see, this is the fourteenth explicitly constructed spaceship speed -- and I think it was probably time to stop counting at thirteen...!
< 1274521723 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Gemini can be accelerated by another 4064 generations (and shortened by 508fd) beyond what Dave has done. Any further and it crashes."
< 1274521929 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not very familiar with Herschel technology, annoyingly...
< 1274521942 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'MA DOWNLOAD UBUNTU LOL.
< 1274522022 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoa
< 1274522027 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hit 8MiB/s there
< 1274522048 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am so close to the exchange that I could have a 64 megabit connection.
< 1274522051 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it is capped :(
< 1274522095 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274522271 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the maximum period of a spaceship in an x * x box is an uncomputable function in x, similar in nature to the Busy Beaver function."
< 1274522272 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweet
< 1274522296 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hereby declare the disturbingly named "Conway's beaver" -- Cb(x) -- to be the maximum number of spaceships in Game of Life in a bounding box of x^2.
< 1274522320 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's pretty easily computed.
< 1274522325 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would just take ages.
< 1274522329 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope.
< 1274522336 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://247wallst.com/2010/05/21/the-limits-of-science-oil-leak-at-95000-barrels-a-day/
< 1274522341 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Consider an exploding pattern.
< 1274522345 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you KNOW it's never a spacesip?
< 1274522347 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*spaceship
< 1274522350 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It never disappears (terminates).
< 1274522354 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the same as the Busy Beaver function.
< 1274522356 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I suppose.
< 1274522361 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't suppose, you know.
< 1274522399 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cb(0) = 0; Cb(1) = 0; Cb(2) = 0; Cb(3) = 1
< 1274522406 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(blank space is a 0-period spaceship)
< 1274522412 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I guess :P)
< 1274522414 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but saying "I know" gets boring.
< 1274522461 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway -- hexagonal life. Any work on that?
< 1274522472 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tonnes.
< 1274522473 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/86/Oscillator.gif
< 1274522488 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are even emulations of it in Golly.
< 1274522509 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although they're a bit confusing....
< 1274522553 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do people try and stuff everything into Golly?
< 1274522611 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's the only program with proper support for hashlife.
< 1274522623 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And unbounded universes.
< 1274522646 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:04:39 <Phantom_Hoover> Bah, alise isn't going to show up, is he?      ;; My gender may be male, but the gender of the nick alise is the gender formed by augmenting the male gender with female pronouns! This is to confuse you and everyone.
< 1274522655 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:11:18 <Sgego> What time does he usually show up on Friday? ;; Not at all, usually.
< 1274522674 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:42:47 <Sgego> Igors did not believe in "Forbidden Knowledge" and "Things Man Was Not Meant To Know" but obviously there were /some/ things a man was not meant to know, such as what it felt like to have every single particle of your body sucked into a little hole, and that seemed to be one of the options available in the imediate future.
< 1274522674 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:42:56 <Sgego> --Terry Pratchett, Theif of Time
< 1274522674 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:43:00 <Sgego> *Thief
< 1274522675 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*immediate.
< 1274522686 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to go.
< 1274522778 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I MUST GO -- AND I MAY NOT BE BACK AGAIN --
< 1274522782 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[dramatic outro]
< 1274523579 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:46:02 <Phantom_Hoover> Ashes to Ashes is on next.
< 1274523606 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I watched it and was vastly disappointed but then I stopped following as soon as Life on Mars ended, so I'm sort of missing every bit of context imaginable.
< 1274523610 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:46:26 * impomatic never watches TV
< 1274523611 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Area Man.
< 1274523746 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:20:58 --- nick: elliottcable -> HARPOONS
< 1274523747 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:22:19 --- nick: HARPOONS -> elliottcable
< 1274523750 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, FUCK no.
< 1274524660 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-4-11.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274524688 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:24:31 <Phantom_Hoover> So travelling along the time dimension means your speed is dt/dt, which makes no sense.
< 1274524693 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're all really standing still, dude.
< 1274524727 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:19:08 <fizzie> You should take an unicode-shower.
< 1274524728 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oonicode?
< 1274524778 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:22:59 <AnMaster> oerjan, now, does that ever exist outside pure math? as in real world. Drawn circles and so on
< 1274524791 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you ["almost certainly"] cannot store infinite amounts of information in finite space
< 1274524796 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, no, true circles do not exist
< 1274524907 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:33:29 <oerjan> AnMaster: perhaps the original character set had different forms for variations of the same character
< 1274524912 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah they did a bunch of Han unification for unicode so
< 1274524955 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:37:24 <pikhq> AnMaster: Han unification is the process whereby the glyphs for pretty much all CJK characters were merged into codepoints based on abstract meaning, regardless of (sometimes quite major) glyph variations.
< 1274524955 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this
< 1274524964 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also why the japanese... don't use unicode.
< 1274525517 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this some kind of bot?
< 1274525570 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What; me?
< 1274525577 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes you
< 1274525580 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I just logread because I can't be here Monday-to-Friday.
< 1274525594 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Before that I was basically the most regular regular here; I believe I've talked to you under a different nick.
< 1274525596 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi.
< 1274525634 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dont think you have, unless the different nick was in the form of Zuu<something_else>
< 1274525655 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sticks to his nick :)
< 1274525655 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My nick was the one that was different.
< 1274525660 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh
< 1274525668 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird?
< 1274525682 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that sounds familiar, yes :)
< 1274525732 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least familiar in the sense that i've seen someone use that nick :P
< 1274527659 0 :AnMaster!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274527767 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's KEEL EVERYBODY
< 1274527886 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, why?
< 1274527908 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not
< 1274527916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1274527919 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense
< 1274528151 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Wasn't it so that you haven't done any money-changery recently? I found some made-in-1976 SEKs, and quick googling seems to suggest that they're still just fine.
< 1274528513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :money-changery?
< 1274528523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you mean changing to EUR or such
< 1274528541 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well correct, they should be fine
< 1274528550 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just different style of coinage. We did a one-to-one mapping even during the FIM age in the 1990s or so.
< 1274528579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what for?
< 1274528594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well actually, for the non-coins there might be an issue
< 1274528596 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no clue. But we got those fancy two-different-colors-of-metals coins for it.
< 1274528605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what with the 20 SEK changing size
< 1274528612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure the old one is still legal tender
< 1274528616 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they added the 10 FIM coin at that point, too; 5 FIM used to be the largest.
< 1274528635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well that sort of things happened before I knpow
< 1274528636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :know*
< 1274528642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a number of times
< 1274528651 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FIMs
< 1274528655 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fims, seks and flobs
< 1274528673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, but 0.5, 1, 5, 10 SEK should be valid as coins today
< 1274528696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, for paper money: 20, 50, 100, 500, 1000, [more iirc but never used those]
< 1274528706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, but yeah 20 SEK changed size some years ago
< 1274528714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the other gained more security things
< 1274528732 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. Well, there was just 1*10 + 6*1 SEK wort of it, so it wouldn't been a great loss; I just don't want to get caught when trying to buy a subway ticket or something.
< 1274528736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like holographic stuff in the paper
< 1274528769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those should be perfectly valid afaik
< 1274528783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, but I'm not sure that is enough for a subway ticket ;P
< 1274528813 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably not, but we've got more, more modern money. I just came across those coins when trying to find some papers.
< 1274528818 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time to go catch a bus, bye.
< 1274528828 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and lots of things like buses in many parts in the country only take credit card or pre-bought ticket these days
< 1274528888 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, as in, no paper money/coins accepted on the bus or such. To reduce risk of someone attacking the driver and stealing it I think
< 1274529509 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how UNION(0) = 0; UNION(S(w)) = w.
< 1274529548 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly we should say â‹w instead of pred(w).
< 1274529555 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or even âŞw.
< 1274529615 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Big-intersection is much more boring, because INTERSECT(0) = 0; INTERSECT(1) = 0; INTERSECT(S(S(w))) = {} intersect ... = 0)
< 1274529663 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dangit, I knew I should have stayed up 24/7
< 1274529751 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I wanted to say something like "Well, that was an interesting week. Got my laptop working again, the Holy Grail of Life was created, got addicted to Aquaria" or somesuch
< 1274529860 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funny; I got addicted to cocaine!*
< 1274529862 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Not actually true.
< 1274530037 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION closes his laptop and goes back to sleep
< 1274530150 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone know an algorithm to generate a denormal floating-point number?
< 1274530406 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. do you know an algorithm to take arbitrary pair-based objects and substitute an arbitrary element in them with some arbitrary new element?
< 1274530411 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::X
< 1274530629 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure.
< 1274530630 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dwim;
< 1274530910 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Wait, you watched the finale of Ashes to Ashes without having watched any of the series?
< 1274531173 0 :marchdown!~marchdown@178.178.119.100 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274531174 0 :marchdown!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1274531283 0 :marchdown!~marchdown@178.178.119.100 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274531284 0 :marchdown!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1274531327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> Anyone know an algorithm to generate a denormal floating-point number? <-- just enter a small enough constant
< 1274531331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a C program
< 1274531333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then compile
< 1274531337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and extract the constant
< 1274531368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just write some program to take a number on stdin and write the binary representation to stdout
< 1274531369 0 :marchdown!~marchdown@178.178.119.100 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274531375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then get_float > foo
< 1274531379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and get the value from foo
< 1274531442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I refer you to IEEE 754 for more details of the range
< 1274531443 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274531449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, wikipedia also have it iirc
< 1274531520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I won't give you my copy of IEEE 754 because it says at the bottom of every page: Authorized licensed use limited to: <name of university>. Downloaded on April 18,2010 at 14:43:10 UTC from IEEE Xplore. Restrictions apply.
< 1274531723 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sneaky, it really does say that :/
< 1274531730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, eh?
< 1274531744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, you have access to ieee xplore too and just checked? or what?
< 1274531749 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just fetched it myself
< 1274531752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1274531765 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was curious it it was really true :P
< 1274531767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, everything from ieee xplore says that
< 1274531777 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently
< 1274531836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw I wonder what "restrictions apply"
< 1274531880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, I recommend you print it. Since that is likely outside the margin of the printer ;P
< 1274531896 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont mind it
< 1274531929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, yet you used ":/"
< 1274531951 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because i find it sneaky
< 1274531966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm true
< 1274532207 0 :marchdown!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: marchdown
< 1274532295 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274532988 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Later
< 1274533169 0 :Guest27685!~jw@c-98-202-196-76.hsd1.ut.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274533744 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~chatzilla@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274533889 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Phantom_Hoover> alise: Wait, you watched the finale of Ashes to Ashes without having watched any of the series?
< 1274533891 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1274533898 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<AnMaster> <alise> Anyone know an algorithm to generate a denormal floating-point number? <-- just enter a small enough constant
< 1274533901 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unhelpful :P
< 1274533912 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Why?
< 1274533912 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<AnMaster> I won't give you my copy of IEEE 754 because it says at the bottom of every page: Authorized licensed use limited to: <name of university>. Downloaded on April 18,2010 at 14:43:10 UTC from IEEE Xplore. Restrictions apply.
< 1274533922 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i won't distribute :P
< 1274533932 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have no idea what the hell is going on!
< 1274533941 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: quite
< 1274533962 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why did you watch it ay all, then?
< 1274533964 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i watched some of it tho
< 1274533969 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :intermittently
< 1274533987 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, why is it unhelpful?
< 1274533989 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i watched all of life on mars
< 1274534001 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, the limit for denormal number is mentioned on wikipedia iirc
< 1274534004 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: finding that constant
< 1274534041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I remember using it from there before having access to IEEE 754
< 1274534227 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if it would be practical to implement a von Neumann architecture in Life.
< 1274534261 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the ingredients are there...
< 1274534915 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tom's foolery.
< 1274534980 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr
< 1274534989 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FLT_MIN isn't a good infinitesimal
< 1274535026 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't you just assemble one yourself?
< 1274535052 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or write 0.00000000000000000000000000001?
< 1274535071 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm looking for a floating point number such that x^2 = 0.
< 1274535083 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :These actually exist but right now I'm just using approximations.
< 1274535095 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that XOR or exponentiation?
< 1274535118 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exponentiation.
< 1274535122 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're called denormal numbers.
< 1274535133 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sqrt(machine_epsilon) provides an okay approximation -- by okay I mean meh.
< 1274535217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, one such number is 0
< 1274535252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fits for non-floating point too
< 1274535253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P
< 1274535254 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl
< 1274535268 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Surely it depends on the exact nature of the floating-point processor?
< 1274535316 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The IEEE standards are strict enough to require one to exist.
< 1274535350 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're electronics engineers!
< 1274535353 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Burn them!
< 1274535360 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./inftes
< 1274535360 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0.0003452670	 0.0001316071	-0.0004272461	-0.0006408691	-0.0008544922	
< 1274535360 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-0.0010681152	-0.0012817383	-0.0014953613	-0.0017089844	 0.0091266632	
< 1274535360 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-0.0021362305	 0.0086994171	-0.0025634766	-0.0138244629	 0.0191059113	
< 1274535360 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0.0078449249	-0.0034179688	 0.0295143127	-0.0259437561	 0.0069885254	
< 1274535361 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0.0399208069	-0.0155334473	 0.0173988342	-0.0380592346	 0.0832633972	
< 1274535363 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0.0278053284	-0.0276489258	-0.0831069946	 0.0382118225	-0.0172424316	
< 1274535369 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Table of errors when using sqrt(machine_epsilon)
< 1274535372 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sqrt(-1) is called i by all right-thinking people!
< 1274535387 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it?
< 1274535391 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you forgotten about -i?
< 1274535410 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, fine/
< 1274535415 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just don't call it j.
< 1274535421 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You forgot to specify that you're using a sqrt() extended to work on negative reals, too.
< 1274535424 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not the principal square root.
< 1274535436 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pedantry!
< 1274535455 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So is mandating the use of the letter "i" for the imaginary unit.
< 1274535467 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why j, though?
< 1274535471 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just confusing.
< 1274535516 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because i is current
< 1274535519 0 :MigoMipo_!~John@84-217-4-11.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274535528 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[In the novel The Da Vinci Code, the character Robert Langdon jokes that character Sophie Neveu "believes in the imaginary number i because it helps her break code" (Brown 2003, p. 351).]]
< 1274535529 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that was I?
< 1274535530 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks, MathWorld
< 1274535535 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i or I.
< 1274535539 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Either way it's confusing)
< 1274535691 0 :MigoMipo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274535729 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1274535754 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION still wants to know the complex structure of circles
< 1274535756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Phantom_Hoover> They're electronics engineers! <Phantom_Hoover> Burn them! z
< 1274535762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/z/<-- why/
< 1274535762 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Eh?
< 1274535786 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to know how the circle extends into the complex plane.
< 1274535798 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Howso?
< 1274535799 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For x^2+y^2=1.
< 1274535802 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah.
< 1274535811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Phantom_Hoover> Just don't call it j. <-- I = 2*e^(-j38Â°) ;P
< 1274535812 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What sense of how?
< 1274535818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION watches Phantom_Hoover cringe
< 1274535830 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Degrees?
< 1274535833 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Ugh; go fuck a goat.
< 1274535838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, common in electrical engineering
< 1274535841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not my fault
< 1274535851 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because, for instance, (2, root(3)i) satisfies the equation.
< 1274535853 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOAT-FUCK.
< 1274535860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I agree it is annoying
< 1274535863 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :root(3)i?
< 1274535868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just describing what happens
< 1274535868 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What kind of notation is that?
< 1274535871 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :root 3 times i.
< 1274535876 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i^1/3?
< 1274535878 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Which root?
< 1274535883 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cube? 42 root?
< 1274535884 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The square root.
< 1274535894 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, you actually meant sqrt.
< 1274535897 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes!
< 1274535903 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should have said sqrt.
< 1274535906 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Burn the witch. Burrrn.
< 1274535908 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I say "root" in real life!
< 1274535912 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are retarded!
< 1274535914 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Burrrrrrrrrrrrrn
< 1274535922 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's easier to say!
< 1274535938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would say square root in RL
< 1274535942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather kvadratrot
< 1274535946 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Swedish)
< 1274535947 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun fact: Pronouncing mathematics is fucktardedly hard
< 1274535951 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least anything non-trivial
< 1274535956 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course.
< 1274535963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1274535967 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We must invent a spoken language for the purpose!
< 1274535988 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We shall call it... TeX!
< 1274536000 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's meant to be typed!
< 1274536003 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Backslash sqrt oh 2 ah.
< 1274536005 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh is {, ah is }.
< 1274536015 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frac oh 1 ah oh 2 ah.
< 1274536020 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The best thing would be if we had sensible terms for brackets...
< 1274536025 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note: Sufficiently nested expressions just make people think you are engaging in sexual congress.
< 1274536027 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, like that.
< 1274536063 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, "Frac oh 1 ah oh 2 ah" is stupidly long.
< 1274536078 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"1 slash 2" is much shorter.
< 1274536226 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 over 2.
< 1274536230 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it TeX is designed to make it look like it would if you wrote it down, not to be said easily.
< 1274536242 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"over" is two syllables.
< 1274536247 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TO MANY.
< 1274536253 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/TO/TOO/
< 1274536253 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shut up.
< 1274536268 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why?
< 1274536300 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sum k from k equals 1 to n equals n times n plus one [-] over 2
< 1274536302 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[-] is a short pause.
< 1274536305 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sum k from k equals 1 to n equals n times n plus one, over 2
< 1274536322 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-4-11.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274536326 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Already, however, this is completely incomprehensible to anyone if they can't look at it for a few seconds.
< 1274536395 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hence why brackets should be easily pronounced.
< 1274536472 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We don't have a big enough cache to understand things like that, sorry.
< 1274536476 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just bring pencil and paper.
< 1274536480 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm.
< 1274536499 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hence we need to stick a cache into people's brains...
< 1274536554 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, does anyone know where that Brainfuck assembler went?
< 1274536611 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which?
< 1274536615 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh.
< 1274536622 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have stumbled upon an /excellent/ epsilon value.
< 1274536628 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need pikhq or AnMaster, stat, to explain this.
< 1274536657 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c2bf is on Sourceforge!
< 1274536660 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Must look!
< 1274536699 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let dx = FLT_MIN * FLT_MAX. Then let D(f,x) = (f(x+dx) - f(x))/dx. Let square(x) = pow(x,2). Now note that D(square, n) - 4 is almost exactly 2*n for all n. The error becomes ~0.0000152588 very quickly.
< 1274536714 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Question: Why? Is this just coincidence? And why the almost-constant error of ~4?
< 1274536784 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blargh, I hate Sourceforge's CVS.
< 1274536794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no clue
< 1274536802 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you need pikhq
< 1274536812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or stat, not sure who that is)
< 1274536828 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That was a joke, right?
< 1274536839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes
< 1274536842 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good :P
< 1274536853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, now: which was? ;P
< 1274536857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and that was too)
< 1274536862 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, hmm, if we consider an infinitesimal e = 1/infinity, then dx = inf * 1/inf = 1.
< 1274536881 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha
< 1274536882 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./inftes
< 1274536882 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3.99999976158142089843750000000000000000000000000000
< 1274536889 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why it's such a "good" approximation :P
< 1274536892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost 4
< 1274536907 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, it only works because the derivative of x^2 doesn't mind how big dx is, really, as long as you scale it...
< 1274536951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION uses a table fan to cool the external harddrive
< 1274536959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hot today
< 1274536974 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1274536990 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: can you give me a 64-bit denormal number such that x^2 = 0?
< 1274536992 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well I'm doing ddrescue from the disk in question
< 1274536995 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't have to be much smaller than that
< 1274536998 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just quite small, you know
< 1274537000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, too hot to think today
< 1274537002 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too small and calculations will fuck up
< 1274537002 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1274537012 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides the table fan can't cool both the harddrive and me
< 1274537014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no
< 1274537045 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, do a binary search? (no idea if this will work...)
< 1274537090 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Meh :P
< 1274537102 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, yes, too hot. Ow.
< 1274537105 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is it there?
< 1274537114 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Stockholm 22C apparently.
< 1274537115 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It gets hot in Sweden?
< 1274537118 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*22 C
< 1274537119 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes.
< 1274537123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, too hot to go to the other room and check the temp
< 1274537124 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Nordic countries have summers.
< 1274537128 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, also very humid
< 1274537129 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: They just have colder-than-usual winters.
< 1274537134 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's them spoilt.
< 1274537135 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It's not that bad if you're not in the north actually.
< 1274537137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hot and dry is less annoying than hot and humid
< 1274537150 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Anyone who lives in, say, Britain, could deal with Stockholm or whatever
< 1274537154 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just a bit chillier in the winters
< 1274537160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and it was like 60% humditity in the morning iirc
< 1274537166 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's 25 degrees in Hexham apparently but it's nowhere near that temperature here indoors
< 1274537166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh I need to go to that room anyway
< 1274537168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will check
< 1274537168 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :50% humidity apparently
< 1274537175 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Partly cloudy" my ass, fuck you Google, fuck you in the ass
< 1274537283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, 23 C, 42% downstairs (indoors)
< 1274537293 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :took the device up here
< 1274537297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where it is warmer
< 1274537301 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finland's been rather warm these last week or two too.
< 1274537302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to see what it ends up at
< 1274537334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :already at 67% humidity
< 1274537341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :68...
< 1274537366 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stockholm's weather forecast looked like it's going to get a bit colder now. But no rain tomorrow-midday, when we have to walk through it, hopefully.
< 1274537372 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274537379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I'm not in Stockholm thougj
< 1274537383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though*
< 1274537413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, be sure to send updates as you go ;P
< 1274537418 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right; but I can never recall where you were, or where it was.
< 1274537437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well if you are going by train you are probably going south of MĂ¤laren right?
< 1274537446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, in which case it is unlikely you will pass nearby
< 1274537457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, 20 km away or so I guess
< 1274537475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you were going north of MĂ¤laren you would pass like a few hundred meters away
< 1274537479 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess. I know nothing of you geography, but generally southwards.
< 1274537488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1274537499 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's that X2000 Stockholm-Copenhagen train.
< 1274537505 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, MĂ¤laren = big lake starting from Stockholm and going inwards
< 1274537511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can go either north or south of it
< 1274537515 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when going by train
< 1274537533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the track are connected on the opposite side
< 1274537548 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274537552 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I live quite near that connection point but not close enough to see the south track
< 1274537558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan
< 1274537581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, the temp shows 24 C now, but it haven't stabilised yet
< 1274537589 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hasn't
< 1274537596 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi AnMaster, alise
< 1274537600 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, right
< 1274537623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, as in, ~20 km from the south track meeting up with the north one
< 1274537625 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was some sort of train-wlan opportunity, but it cost money, and I'm not made out of it, so skipped.
< 1274537629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or some such
< 1274537641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, browse with n900?
< 1274537674 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's something silly like 3 eur/MB when abroad.
< 1274537680 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, just the single "hi, I'm in Halsberg" would be nice. (that is the closest you will get to me if going the south track)
< 1274537735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and that would be a few kB or such I bet for connecting, saying that line, disconnecting.
< 1274537753 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a 250 kB minimum charge too.
< 1274537808 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :halsberg is just in the neck of the woods
< 1274537912 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Here, you give me a way to calculate a float x s.t. x^2 = 0.
< 1274537915 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OR ELSE.
< 1274537937 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x = 0
< 1274537938 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_o
< 1274537972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, AUGH
< 1274537989 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1274537995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, specially since berg = mountain
< 1274538002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that joke ended up as very very bad
< 1274538009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well berg = rock too
< 1274538010 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i couldn't fit a mountain in there
< 1274538046 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: and x =/= 0
< 1274538072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, does "neck of the woods" mean something?
< 1274538084 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "vicinity"
< 1274538088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1274538115 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait you groaned without getting the whole pune?
< 1274538118 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*pun
< 1274538123 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1274538128 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yes it was easily detectable as bad anyway
< 1274538185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, copying 250 GB at an average speed of 26 MB/s takes quite a lot of time
< 1274538196 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about 3h?
< 1274538210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, more I think
< 1274538217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, but meh
< 1274538221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems like more
< 1274538234 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: 0x1p-149 :-P
< 1274538243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, p?
< 1274538245 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: p?
< 1274538248 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google says (250 GB) / (26 (MB / s)) = 2.73504274 hours
< 1274538252 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes... p
< 1274538253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hey stop copying me
< 1274538254 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: isn't that FLT_MIN?
< 1274538254 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1274538262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what is p
< 1274538263 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, maybe
< 1274538272 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Calculations with FLT_MIN are... unreliable
< 1274538277 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :p signifies where the exponent is
< 1274538280 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Specifically, computing derivatives with them seems to always yield 0
< 1274538283 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like e in decimal
< 1274538293 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: You wanted "a float which != 0" :-P
< 1274538307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what is FLT_MIN now again?
< 1274538318 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Shaddup :P
< 1274538326 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: smallest float... "sort of"
< 1274538335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1274538343 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually that's smaller than FLT_MIN
< 1274538348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, smallest normal or smallest denormal?
< 1274538379 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are these nomals and denomals you are talking about?
< 1274538390 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Not sure.
< 1274538394 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu: floating-point oddities
< 1274538396 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.175494e-38 is FLT_MIN, that's 1.401298e-45
< 1274538417 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: and what is the difference bwtween the two?
< 1274538423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, a normal fp number starts with a non-zero in the mantissa. A denormal one can start with 0
< 1274538423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like
< 1274538432 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that
< 1274538435 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i get it
< 1274538450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, like: 1.4*10^-3 vs. 0.14*10^-2
< 1274538452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of
< 1274538482 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In IEEE 754-2008, they're called subnormal numbers
< 1274538482 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is Brainfuck low-level?
< 1274538485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, if the exponent is at minimum number then you can use the denormal numbers to get even smaller numbers
< 1274538490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ah right
< 1274538491 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has all sorts of abstractions.
< 1274538498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, like?
< 1274538508 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The [], for a start.
< 1274538515 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell me even more i already know
< 1274538521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, temp stabilised on 25 C
< 1274538528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at 70% humidity
< 1274538534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, now you see why I can
< 1274538540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't* easily think
< 1274538551 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi Deewiant :)
< 1274538562 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Your hard drive does not matter as much as you ffs.
< 1274538564 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yello
< 1274538566 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, how is that an abstraction
< 1274538571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, sure but I'll live
< 1274538593 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's not working on a machine level.
< 1274538606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, machine level is an abstraction
< 1274538607 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Excepting CPUs designed explicitly to run BF.
< 1274538621 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But how is it low-level?
< 1274538626 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BF, I mean.
< 1274538628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, we should program directly in transistors and electrons
< 1274538665 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, if the CPU is designed to run BF directly then it is
< 1274538668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are BF CPUs
< 1274538669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc
< 1274538686 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, and after this summer there will be a befunge93 CPU I hope :D
< 1274538687 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but it's not low-level when it's running on anything other than them.
< 1274538710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, 26 C
< 1274538722 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Put fan on you.
< 1274538748 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you don't take the heat well either?
< 1274538752 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must now go.. AND I MAY NOT RETURN.
< 1274538761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, how did people manage before fans
< 1274538771 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, but do you plan to return?
< 1274538771 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They dies young.
< 1274538782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, died*
< 1274538786 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yesyesyes.
< 1274538789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or die*
< 1274538789 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Hotly
< 1274538794 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*died
< 1274538795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, cool.
< 1274538805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well it could be in underdeveloped countries today
< 1274538806 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I must go and possible not return.
< 1274538816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, in which case die* would be accurate
< 1274538853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks for a blank cd
< 1274538871 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> Have you forgotten about -i?
< 1274538878 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's for the left-thinking people, duh
< 1274538889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut
< 1274538901 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Or he could be talking about only ONE rolling square
< 1274538904 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: What, ever?
< 1274538926 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what? rolling square?
< 1274538973 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoosh.
< 1274538980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, explain pun
< 1274538986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I blame heat
< 1274538995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, please make more wind pass
< 1274539020 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION farts
< 1274539024 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL IT IS FUNAY
< 1274539030 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: <Phantom_Hoover> sqrt(-1) is called i by all right-thinking people!
< 1274539071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, XD
< 1274539081 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ah
< 1274539144 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274539252 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@150.140.227.55 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274539445 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, 26.5 C, 70% humidity
< 1274539453 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can stop now.
< 1274539464 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop what?
< 1274539541 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no need to fan the flames further
< 1274539575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, XD
< 1274539589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :26.8 C now btw
< 1274539602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders getting a huge silca gen bag
< 1274539611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gel*
< 1274539676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :27 C  but ony 68% humidity now
< 1274539719 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its 26.6C and 68% humidity here :P
< 1274539734 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* 26.8C
< 1274539812 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notices AnMaster sitting under his table :o
< 1274539886 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1274539955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, there? do you need to do something special when shutting down when you have mdadm stuff?
< 1274539961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, like vgchange -a n for lvm
< 1274540176 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madadmin
< 1274540237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, stands for multi disk admin
< 1274540268 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or some such
< 1274540269 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT'S WHAT THEY WANT YOU TO THINK
< 1274540275 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1274540379 0 :marchdown!~marchdown@91.79.37.140 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274540680 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If you are looking to install Arch on something more exotic, such as your kerosene-powered cheese grater, please consult http://wiki.archlinux.org"
< 1274540691 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shown at boot of arch linux
< 1274540695 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Old.
< 1274540697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arch linux live cd
< 1274540700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant
< 1274540703 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Old text, and also a very old joke. NetBSD did it first.
< 1274540705 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I desire a kerosene-powered cheesegrater.
< 1274540706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, probably, never noticed it before
< 1274540713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, me too!
< 1274540723 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cheese: TOTALLY AWESOME
< 1274540728 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think of how much cheese you could grate!
< 1274540744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes, bovine byproducts often are
< 1274540756 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMAGINE: Chicken milk.
< 1274540761 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now you have imagined chicken milk
< 1274540771 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't imagine chicken milk!
< 1274540784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1274540814 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whew, that's disgusting!
< 1274540825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what?
< 1274540839 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chicken milk, presumably.
< 1274540839 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chicken milk
< 1274540852 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*eww
< 1274540893 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: You're disgusting!
< 1274540907 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know!
< 1274541065 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chickens aren't even mammals!
< 1274541123 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they tell me
< 1274541137 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:16:28 <oerjan> used to be functional analysis and dynamical systems
< 1274541143 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dynamical, the most redundantest of words
< 1274541163 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it isn't.
< 1274541197 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in that context
< 1274541216 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose the opposite would be static systems
< 1274541222 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Statical
< 1274541235 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it should just be "dynamic".
< 1274541238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, alligator milk
< 1274541249 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um
< 1274541249 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :milk milk
< 1274541254 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :milk... that is milked out of MILK
< 1274541256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, cool
< 1274541279 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Recursive milk...
< 1274541281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, void milk.
< 1274541305 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is used to drive a perpetum mobile
< 1274541318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(spelling?)(
< 1274541323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/($//
< 1274541330 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*perpetuum
< 1274541346 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a type of music, according to WP.
< 1274541348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1274541351 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274541361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, it is also a perpetual motion machine
< 1274541365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik
< 1274541400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, at least it is in Swedish
< 1274541408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it sounds very much like latin
< 1274541413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I assume it was the same in English
< 1274541419 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably because it is (latin)
< 1274541427 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, "This article is about a musical term. Please see perpetual motion for the physical concept, Perpetuum Mobile (album) for the album, and perpetual motion (disambiguation) for other uses."
< 1274541494 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :english just likes to twist the suffixes around a bit
< 1274541504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1274541544 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*switch
< 1274541636 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Det Ă¤r en evighetsmaskin!
< 1274541688 0 :hiato!~fdulu@41-135-6-154.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274541714 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hccf-8BYaDg
< 1274541715 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!~chatzilla@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274541810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, sounds familiar
< 1274541845 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1274541846 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Phantom_Hoover
< 1274542122 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: underflow
< 1274542154 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION feels old now
< 1274542161 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel old.
< 1274542369 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm 14 and I feel old!
< 1274542500 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evidently esoteric programming accelerates aging.
< 1274542511 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/aging/ageing/
< 1274542789 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274542840 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~chatzilla@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274543015 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1274543187 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Non-standard analysis is awesome.
< 1274543197 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm 17 and I don't feel old.
< 1274543214 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evidently you haven't been doing enough esoteric programming.
< 1274543221 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True.
< 1274543249 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, often, I look at Wikipedia, see some content, and feel like it should be removed.
< 1274543253 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this case...
< 1274543256 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senior_Skip_Day
< 1274543294 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION deletes all but the first sentence.
< 1274543343 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a deletionist!  burn him!
< 1274543346 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do it!
< 1274543365 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done.
< 1274543369 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My edit summary: "Removed some apparent original research and some non-factual content."
< 1274543456 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Later
< 1274543781 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: You left an empty references section, GJ deletionist
< 1274543786 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(/&Â¤()/&"(/!#&Â¤=!"(#/=!)Â¤
< 1274543797 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree!
< 1274543798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dropped to initram fs root shell
< 1274543864 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: eh, stick a "This article doesn't have any references!" template in there and call it good.
< 1274543873 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just remove the section.
< 1274543879 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an empty header; that's not good in any situation
< 1274543886 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or shrink the "External links" section, thereby making the external link a reference.  :P
< 1274543892 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Why?
< 1274543905 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, couldn't mount /
< 1274543905 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say, shouldn't that be an "External link" section, since there's only one?
< 1274543912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, due to not finding the device
< 1274543915 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I had that problem.
< 1274543922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, due to the initramfs missing the software raid tool
< 1274543924 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still haven't wolved it...
< 1274543951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, so now I'm just going to compile my own kernel which won
< 1274543955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :won't* need that crap
< 1274543958 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from a livecd
< 1274544025 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, WP:LAY says that it should be plural.
< 1274544026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will move laptop and do it over ssh
< 1274544028 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too hot here
< 1274544062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets see if znc manages the jarring change from eth0 to wlan0 fine or not
< 1274544123 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: two Ts in your first name, right?
< 1274544138 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1274544143 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: I'd like to know why before I answer that :-)
< 1274544197 0 :ZeroOne!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1274544204 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's public information.
< 1274544216 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION takes that as a "yes".
< 1274544221 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trust me, it's easier to explain this way.  :P
< 1274544253 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :New edit summary: 'Removed empty "References" section. Thanks, Elliott!'
< 1274544288 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274544325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1274544336 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION feels vague uncomfortability at being referred to online by eir own name but cannot seem to articulate why after-the-fact
< 1274544348 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd appreciate it if you'd answered my question before doing that
< 1274544477 0 :AnMaster!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274544501 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods.
< 1274544536 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=(1%2Fa)^n+%3D+a^-n WHAT IS THIS PLOT.
< 1274544556 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: thanks
< 1274544558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so
< 1274544565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is pretty conclusive proof it didn't work
< 1274544579 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like someone doing a really ridiculous drawing
< 1274544591 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: You *don't* want to know
< 1274544592 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: wow, that's a really impressive plot.
< 1274544601 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know :D
< 1274544623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Implicit plot"?
< 1274544626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wth is that
< 1274544634 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you tried pugging it into Mathematica and seeing if it's insane too?
< 1274544640 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is
< 1274544644 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It gets no less insane with different bounds
< 1274544647 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's just a plot.
< 1274544652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ah
< 1274544658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice function
< 1274544659 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this case a contour plot
< 1274544674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, countour of?
< 1274544676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where it is true=?
< 1274544678 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1274544679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/=//
< 1274544682 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ContourPlot[(a^(-1))^n == a^(-n), {a, 0.076, 5.6}, {n, 4.6, 14}]
< 1274544685 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't know why it picked those bounds
< 1274544689 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it selects something suitably insane
< 1274544695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay that is awesome
< 1274544736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, but it says it is true for all positive n and a below
< 1274544741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alternate form assuming a and n are positive:
< 1274544741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True
< 1274544752 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, well, it's still awesome
< 1274544777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so the graph seems to be in error
< 1274544786 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess with complex exponentiation, it's not always true.
< 1274544798 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since complex exponentiation is a multi-valued function.
< 1274544807 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it complex though?
< 1274544809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, look at the plot though
< 1274544817 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: contour plot is things like
< 1274544817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not complex as far as I can see
< 1274544821 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x^2 + y^2 == 1
< 1274544823 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plots a circle
< 1274544828 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, right
< 1274544850 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: complex exponentiation doesn't have to have complex numbers as arguments.
< 1274544917 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With real exponentiation, 1^(1/3) = 1.  With complex exponentiation, 1^(1/3) = {1, -1/2 + i sqrt(3)/2, -1/2 - i sqrt(3)/2}.
< 1274544926 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: True but I don't think it's using complex exponentiation
< 1274544930 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, why would it?
< 1274544938 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, why not?
< 1274544942 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In[26]:= 1^(1/3)
< 1274544942 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out[26]= 1
< 1274544946 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because ^ is real exponentiation in Mathematica.
< 1274544951 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shrugs.
< 1274544953 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, ah
< 1274544968 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although, you may be right.
< 1274545004 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not sure it even has complex exponentiation on non-complexes
< 1274545179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what does (1+0i)^(1/3) show (rewrite to mathematica notation as required)
< 1274545196 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In[38]:= x + 0 I
< 1274545196 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out[38]= x
< 1274545203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1274545205 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In[40]:= (1 + 0 I)^(1/3)
< 1274545205 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out[40]= 1
< 1274545215 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay
< 1274545222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was worth a try at least
< 1274545346 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In[41]:= ComplexExpand[(a + 0 I)^b]
< 1274545346 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out[41]= (a^2)^(b/2) Cos[b Arg[a]] + I (a^2)^(b/2) Sin[b Arg[a]]
< 1274545356 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So maybe ContourPlot IS using complexes.
< 1274545365 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In[42]:= ComplexExpand[a^b]
< 1274545365 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out[42]= (a^2)^(b/2) Cos[b Arg[a]] + I (a^2)^(b/2) Sin[b Arg[a]]
< 1274546042 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274546096 0 :Gregor!~Gregor@67-129-37-226.dia.static.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274546365 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1274546479 0 :Slereah!~jews@ANantes-259-1-59-162.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274546614 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~chatzilla@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274547475 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover hooves up phantoms.
< 1274547524 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :???
< 1274547620 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guys -- copying 1.8G from one drive to another
< 1274547622 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how long will it take?
< 1274547633 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would we know?
< 1274547645 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a plurality of factors to consider.
< 1274547681 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same computer or different?
< 1274547707 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Correction: 1.1G
< 1274547708 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if different, how are you accessing the files? scp feels like it's slower than max network speed
< 1274547711 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pineapple: Same computer
< 1274547719 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scp is slower because of encryption overhead I think
< 1274547723 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Copying to NTFS, from ext
< 1274547724 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1274547732 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, hmm
< 1274547735 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might tar it all up first
< 1274547739 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same thing though, basically
< 1274547750 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also i think that it gets an additional penalty for lots of smaller files
< 1274547750 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Drives are, you know, not so good; not slow, but not fast in any way
< 1274547763 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not "small" on a ReiserFS scale, mind you)
< 1274547817 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wife-killing joke
< 1274547883 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i ever make something useful, there may end up being a parent-killing joke as a punchline
< 1274547887 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tar -cjf foo/x.tar foo/ won't recurse, right?
< 1274547901 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pineapple: Is the implication here that you killed your parents? :P
< 1274547924 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't know... i'd be inclined to test in a smaller folder first
< 1274547936 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and... not yet, but sometimes i feel like it
< 1274547976 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has why he did it ever been asked?
< 1274548048 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the evidence points strongly to "he was crazy"
< 1274548063 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :She was a mail order bride iirc, and he wanted his kids to play violent video games for the /purpose/ of making them tough -- again iirc
< 1274548086 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, who are you talking about?
< 1274548099 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hans Reiser, creator of ReiserFS.
< 1274548101 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He murdered his wife.
< 1274548114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> Phantom_Hoover hooves up phantoms. <-- no he is the ghost of a hoover!
< 1274548127 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A filesystem created by a serial killer...
< 1274548130 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Or both.
< 1274548136 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, could be
< 1274548137 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No; someone who murders isn't a serial killer.
< 1274548139 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And he created the filesystem first.
< 1274548155 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ssh! I'm being dramatic!
< 1274548163 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wired did a really cheesy article where they used vaguely-related snippets of ReiserFS code to illustrate the story.
< 1274548177 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, you're just asking for it to be possessed.
< 1274548178 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like loops and stuff that had "metaphorical implications" if you interpret things like "children" literally and whatnot
< 1274548210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, "mail order bride"?
< 1274548225 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: What it says on the tin
< 1274548233 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, huh
< 1274548238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a crazy idea
< 1274548239 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know what it means, but not how to explain it
< 1274548239 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In 1998, while working in Saint Petersburg, Russia, Hans Reiser reportedly selected from a mail-order bride catalogue,[9] and subsequently married, Nina Sharanova (ĐťĐ¸Đ˝Đ° Đ¨Đ°Ń€Đ°Đ˝ĐľĐ˛Đ°), a Russian-born and trained obstetrician and gynecologist[10] who was studying to become an American licensed OB/GYN.
< 1274548242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would anyone want that
< 1274548255 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Send mail, obtain hot russian, endless sex <-- this is the general theory
< 1274548260 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To get into the States easily.
< 1274548264 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obstetrician?
< 1274548266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, but what do the russian think of it
< 1274548268 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the part of the bride.
< 1274548271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1274548273 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I imagine they don't give a shit.
< 1274548279 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the russian in particular.
< 1274548280 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pineapple: Childbirth and stuff.
< 1274548282 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, to get into the states.
< 1274548286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes
< 1274548302 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's basically legalised human trafficking & sex slavery :P
< 1274548325 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although if she was an OB/GYN probably a bit more benign than that.
< 1274548344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1274548354 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, now to copy contents.tar.gz.
< 1274548360 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Preparing for Ubuntu clean-slate upgrade.)
< 1274548365 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This install is a bit crufty.
< 1274548376 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And 10.04 is ooh-shiny. And this thing is versions behind; 9.04.
< 1274548381 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if she had skills then she was probably getting something out of the deal
< 1274548402 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: i'm not sure that 10.04 is worth it
< 1274548410 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Reiser has stated that he met Nina when he went to a date set up by a Russian dating service; Nina had come along to translate for his date. They had two children."
< 1274548416 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So really it was a bit more than your typical mail-order marriage.
< 1274548424 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pineapple: Well, 9.10 definitely is, and no point upgrading to an old version.
< 1274548435 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're happy to have "more of the same" while still being newer, then i'd recommend 9.10
< 1274548440 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I definitely want to have actually recent software! And 10.04 doesn't seem to have any abject *evil* in it, so...
< 1274548455 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Upgrading to an old version will not be easy, supported, or, you know, a reasonable thing to do.
< 1274548455 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on how you define evil
< 1274548468 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is it you hate, the social networking software or the Yahoo! deal?
< 1274548470 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or the purple?
< 1274548472 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the default settings leave something to be desired
< 1274548491 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the social networking and the default gnome theme (the latter of which is at least changable)
< 1274548512 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although gnome-terminal actually had a useful option added
< 1274548528 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I /like/ the new theme.
< 1274548535 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the social networking apps are just fluff to ignore, like so much of Ubuntu.
< 1274548540 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't mind them much.
< 1274548545 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :option to set the colour of bold normal text as being different from normal text
< 1274548546 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :     359.96M  43%   12.06MB/s    0:00:37
< 1274548549 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is better than I expected!
< 1274548586 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm using 10.04 as the base system for the LFS install i'm trying to do
< 1274548608 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying as in "very trying"... the damn thing crashed while compiling glibc
< 1274548618 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use slackware or gentoo for something like that
< 1274548620 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ubuntu is too "custom"
< 1274548627 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too custom
< 1274548628 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1274548639 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :modifies too much stuff, mostly inherited from debian's culture of extensive patching
< 1274548652 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway fuck lfs, I have more interesting things to do than make a hard-to-maintain linux distro, maybe if it was a good OS and not linux i'd do it
< 1274548664 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not doing it on my main system
< 1274548674 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, i already know your opinion on lfs
< 1274548758 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't believe I've expressed it to you before
< 1274548787 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was discussed a couple of weeks ago
< 1274548788 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in here
< 1274548795 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :topic raised by me
< 1274549093 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274549691 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man: can't execute /usr/bin/less: No such file or directory
< 1274549691 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man: command exited with status 255: /usr/bin/less
< 1274549694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess cause
< 1274549700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :less was installed
< 1274549706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and worked fine like: less foo
< 1274549710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ^
< 1274549715 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know
< 1274549719 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not in /usr/bin
< 1274549723 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1274549727 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :likely in /bin
< 1274549750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, correct. But that doesn't explain it since /etc/man_db.conf didn't have the path to less
< 1274549755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even setting it to /bin didn't work
< 1274549757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now why?
< 1274549762 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of your mother.
< 1274549766 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this may be tricker to guess
< 1274549775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, wronn
< 1274549778 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong*
< 1274549782 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, very correct
< 1274549788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :she was out in the garden when this happened. so no
< 1274549796 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :workaround: symlink so that /usr/bin/less points to /bin/less
< 1274549801 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :messy, but it works
< 1274549803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pineapple, I found the cause
< 1274549808 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HINT: I was in a chroot
< 1274549811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but why
< 1274549815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did that cause it
< 1274549834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pineapple, any idea?
< 1274549845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a one-command fix btw
< 1274549847 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm... because you don't have a /bin folder in your current...
< 1274549853 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shit, i don't know how chroot does
< 1274549863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pineapple, unset PAGER fixed it
< 1274549864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1274549870 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol?
< 1274549874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the host system exported PAGER=/usr/bin/less
< 1274549880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was incorrect in the chroot
< 1274549882 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaah, fun
< 1274549904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pineapple, livecd based on a different distro than the system I'm trying to get working
< 1274549906 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: heh
< 1274549907 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i wouldn't have thought of that
< 1274549917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pineapple, took me a few minutes to figure it out too
< 1274549946 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good puzzle
< 1274549949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the fact that editing man_db.conf didn't help made me suspect it *was* something in the environment overriding it
< 1274549958 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so env | grep less
< 1274549977 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wouldn't have thought to look at man_db.conf either
< 1274549979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are some other wtf things in the environment there (wrt chroot that is)
< 1274549987 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pineapple, well I knew that was declared in there
< 1274550063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw EDITOR=/bin/nano but in the chroot nano is in /usr/bin
< 1274550206 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274550289 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ouch!
< 1274550330 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MigoMipo_
< 1274550333 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my personal opinion is that nano and less should both be in /bin
< 1274550335 0 :MigoMipo_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MigoMipo
< 1274550348 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's because nano is my main text editor
< 1274550355 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i can see root needing both
< 1274550380 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(applying the old logic of /usr being a seperate partition, i know, but...)
< 1274550517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pineapple, my /usr _is_ a spearate partition
< 1274550533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pineapple, / is on RAID1, /usr is on lvm2 on RAID1
< 1274550536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and atm I
< 1274550546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm* trying to get a kernel able to boot this
< 1274550555 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you agree with me that root should have access to an editor that ey know how to use in /bin ?
< 1274550595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pineapple, I prefer emacs, but can accept nano otherwise
< 1274550605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not accept vi
< 1274550609 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a personal preference
< 1274550618 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think i've ever used emacs
< 1274550697 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know people in another channel whose primary preference is joe, with nano as the first alternative
< 1274550738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kernel /kernel-current root=/dev/md1 ro
< 1274550742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets hope that works
< 1274550750 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster has basically a religious objection to vi.
< 1274550759 0 :Deewiant!~deewiant@kekkonen.cs.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274550762 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically just accept it.
< 1274550770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I find myself unable to do anything in it
< 1274550773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug*
< 1274550780 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Have you ever considered that might be a problem with you, not vi?
< 1274550787 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: i know a few people that feel that way about vi
< 1274550797 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're not compatible, get over it
< 1274550800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I never claimed it was a vi problem
< 1274550818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said it was a mutual incompatibility
< 1274550829 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait... don't you 2 have each other on ignore?
< 1274550829 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You seem a bit too hostile about vi for that to be all the story...
< 1274550838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pineapple, we do from time to time
< 1274550840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not currently
< 1274550852 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should i ask why?
< 1274550852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well I'm quite happy to use ed
< 1274550854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than vi
< 1274550867 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pineapple: I never ignore AnMaster, he's too hilariously idiotic to miss!
< 1274550876 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that remark will probably make him reinstate his ignore.
< 1274550882 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1274550882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you have ignored me in the past
< 1274550945 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274550969 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274551129 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO--
< 1274551135 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I will upgade.
< 1274551138 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*upgrade, also.
< 1274551145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm debating: gnome or xfce
< 1274551150 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are the sound effects annoying? They change them a lot.
< 1274551161 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Gnome. XFCE seems nice but then you realise it's quite unpolished and just has a bunch of meh corners.
< 1274551168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, update/upgrade what?
< 1274551168 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both suck, so better to use the more polished turd.
< 1274551174 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Ubuntu from 9.04 to 10.04.
< 1274551180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1274551189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sound effects?
< 1274551199 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, the startup sounds and whatnot.
< 1274551204 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just wondering if they're irritating; they change a lot.
< 1274551206 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, oh I never turn those on
< 1274551211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what about fluxbox?
< 1274551212 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're on by default.
< 1274551224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, then I guess I turn them off. Along with splash screen
< 1274551231 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Fluxbox is a bit too "31337"-style. Everything is an annoying right-click menu, and it's fundamentally boring.
< 1274551236 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only interesting thing: the tabbing stuff.
< 1274551239 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pekwm has that.
< 1274551252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1274551265 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, there is some fluxbox fan at university
< 1274551273 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's stupid.
< 1274551276 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Poke him with forks.
< 1274551287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, why do you assume "he"?
< 1274551294 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or she, fine.
< 1274551298 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :she indeed
< 1274551304 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blame the sexism of the English language.
< 1274551309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1274551312 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not going to say he/she all the time and I forget to use Spivak.
< 1274551314 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm not joking.
< 1274551346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hshe?
< 1274551367 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: read this http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~evans/cs655/readings/purity.html
< 1274551370 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you haven't already
< 1274551374 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great article
< 1274551375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl food
< 1274551377 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good morrow.
< 1274551534 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting fact: You can turn any poem into an Emily Dickinson poem by inserting a lot of line breaks, capitalising random words and inserting a copious amount of em dashes.
< 1274551547 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So -- I will Upgrade --
< 1274551550 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This Linux -- distribution --
< 1274551563 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From nine oh four, to ten oh four --
< 1274551569 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reboots
< 1274551599 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274552067 0 :Dooglass!~banskany_@208.95.113.245 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274552143 0 :Dooglass!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1274553125 0 :sdorand!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: sdorand
< 1274553335 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274553430 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2.3/20100401080539]
< 1274554544 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: on the gnome vs xfce choice: i don't know if you're the type who needs to randomly paste shit into a text editor so that you don't forget it while you use the clipboard for other things (something that notepad on windows is well suited to)
< 1274554589 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you are, then xfce is a more favourable choice, as mousepad loads a lot faster than gedit does
< 1274554590 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pineapple, what has that got to do with it?
< 1274554600 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is less bloated
< 1274554608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pineapple, I don't use gedit under gnome
< 1274554610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use kate
< 1274554611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from KDE
< 1274554620 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1274554625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is arguably more bloated and has more features
< 1274554635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either that or emacs
< 1274554637 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no... jedit is bloated
< 1274554643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on which language I'm working against
< 1274554646 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pineapple, jeddit?
< 1274554653 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :java text edit
< 1274554656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1274554661 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/or/
< 1274554663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what does that have to do with geddit?
< 1274554668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or emacs or kate
< 1274554674 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jedit is even more bloated than gedit
< 1274554683 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i know someone who swears by it
< 1274554686 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1274554692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pineapple, emacs is not bloated then?
< 1274554701 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's the only editor he's found that can handle having 900 files open at once
< 1274554707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pineapple, I mean, I'm using an irc client in emacs atm...
< 1274554732 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one that doesn't respond to VERSION, evidently
< 1274554766 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pineapple, I filter ctcp apart from CTCP ACTION
< 1274554773 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aah
< 1274554776 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pineapple, but it is ERC
< 1274554795 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and... not sure how to respond to that point about emacs
< 1274555081 0 :alise!~alise@91.105.70.71 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274555088 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello!
< 1274555101 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i
< 1274555101 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now that I've installed Ubuntu, time to poke it with a rusty stick until it's usable.
< 1274555107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!olleH, esila
< 1274555120 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Network meters in XChat: I most definitely do not need those
< 1274555131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I liked those back when I used xchat
< 1274555132 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are only a few things I am adamantly certain of in life but that is one of them
< 1274555138 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehh... i always liked them
< 1274555139 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, What do you use now?
< 1274555144 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ERC
< 1274555147 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ew
< 1274555150 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Ew.
< 1274555153 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we were just talking about that, heh
< 1274555156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, as you very well know
< 1274555163 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I forgot.
< 1274555170 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D
< 1274555174 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No mandating what we talk about in here!
< 1274555177 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's, like, the first rule of #esoteric.
< 1274555186 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The second rule of #esoteric is not the first rule of #esoteric.
< 1274555196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no, the first rule of #esoteric is that it is the first rule of #erlang
< 1274555197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1274555199 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric
< 1274555205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tab complete channel name sucks
< 1274555205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1274555210 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I liked "the first rule of #esoteric is that it is the first rule of #erlang" more
< 1274555212 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And why is ais not here?
< 1274555214 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1274555221 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just as long as there's no esolangs rule 34...
< 1274555225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, because is not absent from here
< 1274555227 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first rule of #erlang is "No mandating what we talk about in #esoteric!".
< 1274555230 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pineapple, AUGH
< 1274555237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pineapple, just mentioning it invented it
< 1274555239 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know
< 1274555242 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it exists platonically.
< 1274555245 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whether or not you mention it.
< 1274555258 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it violates the principle of rule 34 to hope that it doesn't exist
< 1274555259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no, computer programmers are lazy, it is created on demand
< 1274555265 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It may not, however, be realised in a physical form in this universe; thus there are no Rule 34 "challenges", just complaints about the latency between these two realms.
< 1274555275 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the epistemologically and theologically correct way to interpret rule 34.
< 1274555289 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I have a Ph.D.)
< 1274555295 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know... now i want to write a short story involving a deity who is the "god of rule 34"
< 1274555304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, the youngest person to have that?
< 1274555314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, also: a Ph.D. in what
< 1274555315 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1274555322 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rulology.
< 1274555325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1274555330 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rulololology.
< 1274555354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augh
< 1274555372 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.drexel.edu/univrel/drexelink/story.asp?ID=1594&vol=10&num=2
< 1274555376 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14-year-old Ph.D. student.
< 1274555380 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One word: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
< 1274555384 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bastard.
< 1274555387 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Three words: FUCK. THAT. SHIT.
< 1274555390 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Bitch, actually.
< 1274555396 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Four words: I will destroy her.
< 1274555419 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This is such a phallic vegetable" --a friend, on cucumbers
< 1274555442 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: should i ask how old this friend is/
< 1274555444 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1274555455 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's studying mathematics at Oxford :P
< 1274555474 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has he actually experienced a cucumber, though?
< 1274555480 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's cutting one right now
< 1274555498 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that wasn't what i meant by "experienced"
< 1274555508 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1274555509 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh my.
< 1274555519 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not shocked by the question, just by the implication that I should ask it.
< 1274555526 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or already know the answer.
< 1274555534 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heheheh
< 1274555578 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"yes, cucumbers are phallic; but i wouldn't recommend them in that way..."
< 1274555587 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Answer just back from the source: "No"
< 1274555594 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a man who has never "experienced" a cucumber.
< 1274555603 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Although the thought did occur to me what it would look like when I went to the checkout with it"
< 1274555608 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He is a shining beacon of intellectuality
< 1274555670 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unrelated: http://s1.b3ta.com/host/creative/42654/1274544726/buickregalgsshowcareatme.jpg
< 1274555679 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sfw; nsfh
< 1274555692 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :h? What is h?
< 1274555698 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not mind, so i-- OH GOD WHAT
< 1274555699 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hangover
< 1274555728 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1274555845 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION installs Pidgin
< 1274555856 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Empathy is still crap
< 1274555875 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone here on using a Mac on Snow Leopard?
< 1274555883 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but I have a Mac on Leopard.
< 1274555884 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why?
< 1274555942 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I might be looking for some people to try out an esolang interpreter that im currently working on my Mac
< 1274555955 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might be. I see :P
< 1274555973 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it OS X-specific?
< 1274555975 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Howso? And why?
< 1274556013 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274556022 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, i just only have my MacBook Pro and then a family windows machine, so im doing it on my mac then gunna get it going on windows
< 1274556031 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pooppy! Hi!
< 1274556035 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poiuy_qwert: I can run it on Linux.
< 1274556041 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's written in C or similar it'll almost certainly work.
< 1274556068 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well actually its fairly high level, but it uses Qt so should be perfectly fine on Linux too
< 1274556079 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do you need Qt for an interpreter?
< 1274556088 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its for Zetaplex
< 1274556091 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahh.
< 1274556096 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd have used SDL.
< 1274556111 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just already had some experience with Qt
< 1274556126 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SDL is really simple and more suited for graphics work.
< 1274556129 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Qt is mostly GUI interfaces.
< 1274556137 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SDL will also make the code run more smoothly and easily on Windows, I think.
< 1274556145 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know Gammaplex used SDL, and thats why I planned to use before, but I didn't feel like learning it too :X
< 1274556153 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@150.140.227.55 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274556154 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: RAS Syndrome!
< 1274556178 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: DOESN'TMATTER prescriptivist
< 1274556193 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GUI forms a single word, even if it is "actually" composed of multiple words.
< 1274556201 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: what's the A?
< 1274556205 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Qt also had a lot of extra stuff that made it easier to make, like QTcpSocket and their threading stuff. very easy to y
< 1274556205 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"PIN number", "ATM machine", "GUI interface" -- are all perfectly valid.
< 1274556207 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pineapple: Acronym.
< 1274556211 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Redundant Acronym Syndrome syndrome.
< 1274556212 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's pointless to add the extra word!
< 1274556212 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/y/use/
< 1274556216 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i thought
< 1274556226 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It increases readability and understandability.
< 1274556240 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Radar ranging.
< 1274556244 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OOPS LOL RADAR ENDS WITH "RANGING" HAHA
< 1274556262 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT'S THAT IT'S CONSIDERED A SINGLE WORD?
< 1274556266 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[gaspeth]
< 1274556267 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1274556289 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what :P
< 1274556295 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's unnecessary.
< 1274556305 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: So's pleasure.
< 1274556344 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EXACTLY!
< 1274556421 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY OH WHY DOES EVERY GNOME IRC CLIENT SUCK
< 1274556458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> http://www.drexel.edu/univrel/drexelink/story.asp?ID=1594&vol=10&num=2 <-- wow
< 1274556488 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yup.
< 1274556496 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100423140709]
< 1274556499 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE JEALOUSY IS OVERWHELMING :(
< 1274556525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> He is a shining beacon of intellectuality <-- sarcasm or not?
< 1274556530 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Take a guess
< 1274556579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hard to tell in that context: 1) <alise> He's studying mathematics at Oxford :P 2) <alise> "Although the thought did occur to me what it would look like when I went to the checkout with it"
< 1274556593 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they seem to suggest different things
< 1274556603 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it came right after the latter... I was being sarcastic.
< 1274556630 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pineapple> unrelated: http://s1.b3ta.com/host/creative/42654/1274544726/buickregalgsshowcareatme.jpg <-- wonderful
< 1274556646 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No; horrific.
< 1274556654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, nice photoshotp
< 1274556658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :photoshop*
< 1274556665 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sad that it isn't real
< 1274556710 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say... I wonder if there's some sort of e-book reader for Linux that uses high-quality typesetting algorithms like those from TeX.
< 1274556720 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does all the nice typographic trimmings, etc.
< 1274556748 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, aren't ebooks generally pdf anyway?
< 1274556758 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No
< 1274556768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what other formats?
< 1274556771 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's some standardish format for them
< 1274556780 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't you get Gutenberg books in some formatted format?
< 1274556783 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of the silly plain text
< 1274556783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, pdf is fairly common though
< 1274556793 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :images iirc?
< 1274556794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure
< 1274556807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or could be the Swedish equiv. of Gutenberg
< 1274556809 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.gutenberg.org/dirs/etext01/2000010ah.htm
< 1274556816 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gutenberg has HTML, but maybe that's just for some books
< 1274556832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually nordic, not just Swedish
< 1274556836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://runeberg.org/
< 1274556859 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"EPUB", also.
< 1274556864 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that is the semi-standard one.
< 1274556870 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EPUB (short for electronic publication; alternatively capitalized as ePub, EPub, or epub, with "EPUB" preferred by the vendor) is a free  and open e-book standard by the International Digital Publishing Forum (IDPF). Files have the extension .epub. EPUB is designed for reflowable content, meaning that the text display can be optimized for the particular display device. The format is meant to function as a single format that publishers and conversion houses c
< 1274556870 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an use in-house, as well as for distribution and sale. It supersedes the Open eBook standard.[1]
< 1274556876 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Gutenberg is an old, old, *old* project.
< 1274556878 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    * Free and open
< 1274556878 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    * Re-flowable (word wrap) and re-sizable text
< 1274556878 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    * Inline raster and vector images
< 1274556878 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    * Embedded metadata
< 1274556878 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    * DRM support
< 1274556879 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    * CSS styling
< 1274556881 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    * Support for alternative renditions in the same file
< 1274556883 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    * Use of out-of-line and inline xml islands to extend the functionality of EPUB
< 1274556886 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yeah but i'm meaning "most" books
< 1274556899 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway not /that/ old, 1971
< 1274556907 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weren't they digitising the OED by then?
< 1274556928 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still incredibly old in computer-years.
< 1274556946 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes.
< 1274556946 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they didn't start digitising OED for a few more years, IIRC.
< 1274556966 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Two fully-bound print editions of the OED have been published under its current name, in 1928 and 1989."
< 1274556972 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't realise there were so few editions of the OED.
< 1274556996 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The OED is a bit ridiculous really, you don't need /all/ those words in dead tree.
< 1274557009 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The OED takes ages to prepare.
< 1274557055 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, what I'm saying is that if you had such a wonderful typesetting program, you could make an eBook reader by... hooking it up to an appropriate screen. Job done.
< 1274557065 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could also port it to other mobile devices, etc.
< 1274557065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you did before there was internet
< 1274557074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was nowhere to look it up then
< 1274557082 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Have you ever seen a full printing of the OED?
< 1274557100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I have seen up to and including "advanced learner's edition" or such iirc
< 1274557101 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even for the most pedantic stickler determined to know about every single word used in relevant history, 90% of the OED is useless.
< 1274557104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was pretty thich
< 1274557107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thick*
< 1274557117 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The whole thing is... a great many volumes.
< 1274557119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure how the full OED looks like
< 1274557123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, picture?
< 1274557130 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The dictionary's latest, complete print edition (Second Edition, 1989) was printed in 20 volumes, comprising 291,500 entries in 21,730 pages.
< 1274557136 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow
< 1274557140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :photo
< 1274557145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't imagine this
< 1274557151 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://mydailycolumn.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/graphics-mdc-oxford-english-dictionary.jpg
< 1274557165 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The book barely fits on a CD.
< 1274557177 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :540 megabytes
< 1274557182 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow... that's nearly as big as the Encyclopaedia Britannica
< 1274557187 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(granted, that's uncompressed *and* with metadata)
< 1274557192 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's aiming for absolute mass...
< 1274557195 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it failed!
< 1274557202 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Woordenboek der Nederlandsche Taal" is a bigger dictionary.
< 1274557214 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Published, in parts, 1863-1998.
< 1274557216 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: It's aiming for comprehensive treatment of English.
< 1274557230 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Beyond comprehensive.
< 1274557233 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is interested in Tremulous again
< 1274557235 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's aiming for fanatical treatment.
< 1274557245 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps even religious treatment. Obsessive-compulsive treatment.
< 1274557323 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maverick Meerkat?
< 1274557325 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shitty name!
< 1274557347 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1274557363 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Update: Apparently the cucumber was "distinctly unsatisfying".
< 1274557382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ^_^
< 1274557399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, btw male or female?
< 1274557402 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not sure in which sense he meant this.
< 1274557407 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I just answered AnMaster's question
< 1274557411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1274557480 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: do you own the E.B.?
< 1274557500 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, which edition?
< 1274557592 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, does the OED just define the words or does it also describe what they mean=?
< 1274557602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :define as in listing with gramatical info
< 1274557607 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Describe, of course.
< 1274557611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ah
< 1274557615 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the condensed OEDs have nothing added to the OED.
< 1274557620 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just cutting downs.
< 1274557628 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And have comprehensive etymology.
< 1274557642 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The longest entry in the OED2 was for the verb set, which required 60,000 words to describe some 430 senses. As entries began to be revised for the OED3 in sequence starting from M, the longest entry became make in 2000, then put in 2007."
< 1274557656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, then there is some pretty heavy Swedish such. So heavy they only finished to to t (iirc). Started over 100 years ago
< 1274557665 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Name?
< 1274557674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Svenska Akademins Ordbok
< 1274557685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not same as Svenska Adademins Ordlista)
< 1274557694 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# Contemporary beliefs about race and ethnicity are included in the Encyclopedia's articles. For example, the entry for "Negro" states, "Mentally the negro is inferior to the white... the arrest or even deterioration of mental development [after adolescence] is no doubt very largely due to the fact that after puberty sexual matters take the first place in the negro's life and thoughts."[4]  The article about the American War of Independence attributes the su
< 1274557694 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ccess of the United States in part to "a population mainly of good English blood and instincts".[5]
< 1274557696 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: My school library does
< 1274557709 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno which edition; haven't seen it in a while
< 1274557717 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# Many articles are now factually outdated, in particular those on science, technology, international and municipal law, and medicine. For example, the article on the vitamin deficiency disease beriberi speculates that it is caused by a fungus, vitamins not having been discovered at the time. Articles about geographic places mention rail connections and ferry stops in towns that today no longer employ such transport.
< 1274557745 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds likely; it's pretty old
< 1274557754 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Encyclopedia Americana" x_x
< 1274557763 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: It's still updated; that's only one edition.
< 1274557767 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was first published in the 1700s.
< 1274557788 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1274557796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, when was the last edition?
< 1274557810 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Present day.
< 1274557822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that no longer has texts like that above I presume?
< 1274557827 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MigoMipo_
< 1274557829 0 :MigoMipo_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MigoMipo
< 1274557851 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously.
< 1274557855 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a modern encyclopedia.
< 1274557861 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A bit rubbish nowadays, but there you go.
< 1274558362 0 :cheater2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1274558393 0 :cheater2!~cheater@ip-80-226-242-210.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274558676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1274558688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :package gnome did not depend on xorg-server
< 1274558699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that does make kind of sense
< 1274558709 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it seems somewhat strange still
< 1274558747 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only needs the libraries.
< 1274558759 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can use a server on another system just fine.
< 1274558787 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ubuntu 10.04 is frighteningly polished.
< 1274558790 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could this OS actually become usable?
< 1274558811 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only words that occur to me are "surely not".
< 1274558989 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274558999 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The next version of Ubuntu will, inevitably, do something absolutely retarded like use a very buggy repository release of Pulseaudio.
< 1274559008 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course.
< 1274559026 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But hey... this is quite nice.
< 1274559059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1274559071 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TERMINAL IS TRANSPARENT BY DEFAULT WHY WHY
< 1274559080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so not perfect then
< 1274559082 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ONLY PEOPLE WHO DON'T ACTUALLY USE THEIR TERMINAL MAKE IT TRANSPARENT
< 1274559084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also *shudder*
< 1274559089 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's Ubuntu. Of course it's not perfect.
< 1274559095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so change the setting
< 1274559105 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying!!
< 1274559121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> ONLY PEOPLE WHO DON'T ACTUALLY USE THEIR TERMINAL MAKE IT TRANSPARENT <-- says a lot about ubuntu
< 1274559129 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done
< 1274559140 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Not really, because the theme will have been created by graphics designers.
< 1274559145 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who, you know, don't generally use terminals.
< 1274559157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, graphics designers....
< 1274559166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT DO THEY HAVE TO DO WITH THEMES AND GUIs?
< 1274559173 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KEEP THEM AWAY FROM IT
< 1274559194 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Would you prefer to have a programmer do it?
< 1274559197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, anyway I will continue to use clearlooks + old gnome icon theme
< 1274559204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yes. twm isn't too bad at all
< 1274559212 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1274559218 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, a graphics designer/human-computer interaction/typography specialist is who you want to do it.
< 1274559220 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: mine is transparent
< 1274559221 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: On the other hand, CDE hurts.
< 1274559231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, okay good point
< 1274559239 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: In other words, you want a UI designer to do it. :)
< 1274559243 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Graphics designer so that it's pleasing on the eye, human-computer interaction expert for incredibly obvious reasons, and typography to present the information well.
< 1274559249 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well, yeah. Exactly.
< 1274559251 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pity that those hardly even exist.
< 1274559269 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION installs Emacs, thus directly contributing to the nonexistence of UI designers
< 1274559278 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1274559280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, :D
< 1274559307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, thought the same would apply to vi(m)
< 1274559311 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would, yes.
< 1274559317 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*though, I think.
< 1274559322 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, I like this purple colour.
< 1274559325 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's much better than the orange.
< 1274559331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :orange?
< 1274559334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :orange where?
< 1274559341 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The orange/brown of past Ubunti.
< 1274559344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1274559358 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is on a blue ubuntu (no, not kubuntu)
< 1274559365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just no logo in sight anywhere)
< 1274559370 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's now purple-background with beigey-yellow window colours and dark brown/dark greyish window decoration.
< 1274559376 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus dark grey menus.
< 1274559378 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's nice.
< 1274559387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I prefer very light colours personally
< 1274559387 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something new for a change.
< 1274559406 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(So do I but the light version of this theme is hideous and I don't like the other light Gnome themes)
< 1274559412 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd like it if it wasn't a dark theme
< 1274559416 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, clearlooks?
< 1274559416 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using a light background would perk this up just fine.
< 1274559420 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No thanks.
< 1274559425 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Used Clearlooks for months now but not happily
< 1274559429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what is wrong with clearlooks?
< 1274559429 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just don't think they work as well as they should do...
< 1274559438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it is unobtrusive
< 1274559453 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't find it very usable.
< 1274559460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, in what way?
< 1274559478 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For various reasons I find this theme more easily usable, because the menus are better-highlighted, there aren't copious borders everywhere cluttering up the interface, and the default colours are a lot easier on the eyes.
< 1274559487 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just find it more pleasant to use.
< 1274559515 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ubuntuers intersect Emacsers: emacs-snapshot-gtk or emacs23?
< 1274559563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I prefer stable one in general
< 1274559572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure what emacs-snapshot-gtk is
< 1274559578 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this laptop is still jaunty
< 1274559579 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From trunk, but Emacs trunk never breaks.
< 1274559584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(update planned to june)
< 1274559595 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Debian/Ubuntu would never ship a broken emacs-snapshot anyway.
< 1274559595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it doesn't? It broke on me before
< 1274559602 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A /lot/ of people use that package.
< 1274559605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but true
< 1274559616 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :debian or ubuntu wouldn't ship broken versions
< 1274559654 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1274559675 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION loads up HAKMEM to have a little browse.
< 1274559731 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ouch, their ASCII mathematical notation is unreadable :)
< 1274559774 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey! They have results obtained with MATHLAB in there -- the first ever CAS!
< 1274559779 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool.
< 1274559798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, HAKMEM?
< 1274559815 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You /don't know what HAKMEM is/?
< 1274559817 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Stab him.
< 1274559818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1274559846 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Only one of the most influential and awesome MIT A.I. Lab notes. Circa 1972, it contains many pieces of apocrypha, algorithms, neat tricks, anecdotes, properties, solutions, and, well, everything.
< 1274559848 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://home.pipeline.com/~hbaker1/hakmem/hakmem.html
< 1274559870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"HAKMEM is notable as an early compendium of algorithmic technique, particularly for its practical bent, and as an illustration of the wide-ranging interests of AI Lab people of the time, which included almost anything other than AI research."
< 1274559875 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from wikipedia
< 1274559875 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1274559876 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Topics include the "bananananananana..." problem with letter-based Markov chains, algorithms for calculating all kinds of stuff,
< 1274559886 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots and lots of random interesting mathematics,
< 1274559898 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :games and stuff, ideas for computer programs,
< 1274559911 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and machine-specific hardware hacks.
< 1274559921 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION stabs everyone
< 1274559933 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# Problem 95 Solve chess
< 1274559933 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# Problem 96 Solve Go
< 1274559939 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not without ambition, either.
< 1274559941 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[PROBLEM 95:
< 1274559941 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Solve chess. There are about 10^40 possible positions; in most of them, one side is hopelessly lost.
< 1274559941 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PROBLEM 96:
< 1274559941 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Solve Go. About 10^170 positions.]]
< 1274559976 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Anyway if you can get past the hideous ASCIImathematics (it's not linear, it's just really ugly 2D notation) it's a joy to read.
< 1274559998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, example of the notation?
< 1274560004 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lots of famous figures referred to in it
< 1274560024 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                          ====        K       K
< 1274560024 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                          \       (-1)  (delta  A0)
< 1274560024 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A0 - A1 + A2 - ...   =     >      -----------------
< 1274560024 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                          /              K+1
< 1274560024 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                          ====          2
< 1274560024 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                       K
< 1274560026 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                      ====
< 1274560028 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :              K       \                      K-m
< 1274560030 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(where  (DELTA  A0) =  >  BINOMIAL(K, m) (-1)    Am   = Kth forward difference on A0)
< 1274560032 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                      /
< 1274560034 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                      ====
< 1274560036 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                      m=0
< 1274560041 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Ugh*.
< 1274560044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1274560045 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night
< 1274560047 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /===\
< 1274560047 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  ! !                 2
< 1274560047 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  ! !  (ROOT  - ROOT )   =  square of determinant whose i,j element is
< 1274560047 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  ! !       i       j
< 1274560047 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : i < j
< 1274560047 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank $diety for TeX
< 1274560049 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    i-1
< 1274560050 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ROOT    .
< 1274560053 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    j
< 1274560061 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yeah, but still, you gotta admire these guys for typesetting non-trivial mathematics like that.
< 1274560072 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was, after all, done on a PDP in the 70s.
< 1274560076 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: True. That's pretty dang hard to do in ASCII.
< 1274560087 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[In work on education at our lab, we built a motorized "turtle" controlled by computer commands in the child-oriented language "Logo".]]
< 1274560093 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Particularly when you consider that the whole idea of a *visual editor* was relatively new.
< 1274560106 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be honest, though, they should have just handwritten it like so:
< 1274560106 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://home.pipeline.com/~hbaker1/hakmem/Item187I.gif
< 1274560121 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then the formulas were designed for snarfing into other stuff, I suspect, while doing that with the diagram would be patently impossible in the 70s.
< 1274560133 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or got Knuth to invent TeX a bit faster.
< 1274560148 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could have given it in linear, computerised notation + a drawing of the mathematical notation.
< 1274560187 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Proving that short programs are neither trivial nor exhausted yet, there is the following:
< 1274560187 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0/      TLCA 1,1(1)
< 1274560187 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/      see below
< 1274560187 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/      ROT 1,9
< 1274560187 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3/      JRST 0
< 1274560188 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a display hack (that is, it makes pretty patterns) with the low 9 bits = Y and the 9 next higher = X; also, it makes interesting, related noises with a stereo amplifier hooked to the X and Y signals. Recommended variations include:
< 1274560191 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :      CHANGE:         GOOD INITIAL CONTENTS OF 1:
< 1274560193 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        none            377767,,377767; 757777,,757757; etc.
< 1274560195 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        TLC 1,2(1)      373777,,0; 300000,,0
< 1274560197 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        TLC 1,3(1)      -2,,-2; -5,,-1; -6,,-1
< 1274560199 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        ROT 1,1         7,,7; A0000B,,A0000B
< 1274560201 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        ROTC 1,11       ;Can't use TLCA over data.
< 1274560203 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        AOJA 1,0
< 1274560205 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So interesting to see the very theoretical mathematics juxtaposed with dirty PDP tricks.
< 1274560210 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish I was in the AI Lab back then... and born.
< 1274560223 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Much awesomeness was happening then.
< 1274560224 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274560231 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The myth that any given programming language is machine independent is easily exploded by computing the sum of powers of 2.
< 1274560231 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    * If the result loops with period = 1 with sign +, you are on a sign-magnitude machine.
< 1274560231 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    * If the result loops with period = 1 at -1, you are on a twos-complement machine.
< 1274560231 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    * If the result loops with period > 1, including the beginning, you are on a ones-complement machine.
< 1274560231 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    * If the result loops with period > 1, not including the beginning, your machine isn't binary -- the pattern should tell you the base.
< 1274560234 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    * If you run out of memory, you are on a string or Bignum system.
< 1274560235 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    * If arithmetic overflow is a fatal error, some fascist pig with a read-only mind is trying to enforce machine independence. But the very ability to trap overflow is machine dependent.
< 1274560238 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By this strategy, consider the universe, or, more precisely, algebra:
< 1274560240 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let X = the sum of many powers of two = ...111111
< 1274560242 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now add X to itself; X + X = ...111110
< 1274560245 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus, 2X = X - 1 so X = -1
< 1274560246 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore algebra is run on a machine (the universe) which is twos-complement.
< 1274560303 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That uses the sum of powers of two = -1 result :-)
< 1274560458 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274560983 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :         1
< 1274560983 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        /
< 1274560983 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        [              1
< 1274560983 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : K(m) = I  ------------------------- dt
< 1274560983 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        ]             2          2
< 1274560983 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        /  sqrt((1 - t ) (1 - m t ))
< 1274560985 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :         0
< 1274560988 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why did they use such strange ASCII notation for big symbols?
< 1274561009 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~chatzilla@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274561294 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh; this video driver is wonky.
< 1274561488 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274561529 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, alise, I've been thinking about the c signal thing.
< 1274561533 0 :hiato!~fdulu@41-135-6-154.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274561558 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is possible to have signals that travel at c but stop, but they have to be subject to some restrictions.
< 1274561599 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Oh?
< 1274561600 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Are you there
< 1274561605 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/?/
< 1274561620 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1274561628 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have a nvidia card?
< 1274561633 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, the distance left to go has to be encoded into the first row of cells.
< 1274561634 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1274561640 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not :(
< 1274561657 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because my onboard video card is ATi, and I'm too lazy to get an Nvidia card.
< 1274561668 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, but, I need help with a driver.
< 1274561674 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But eh, it's alright. The free software drivers for ATi cards don't suck too bad.
< 1274561689 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've used Nvidia in the past.
< 1274561693 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whaddya need help with?
< 1274561767 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using the "current" nvidia drivers, but I can switch to versions 96 and 173.
< 1274561780 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Emacs 23, after a while, text distorts with random lines and stuff.
< 1274561791 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty soon the actual typed text becomes incomprehensible blobs of random black and white.
< 1274561792 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Halp.
< 1274561823 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION screenshots
< 1274561845 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't Ubuntu default to Nouveau drivers?
< 1274561866 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://imgur.com/D7aCd.png
< 1274561871 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes, but those distorted every single piece of text.
< 1274561875 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which I thought was significantly worse.
< 1274561882 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF?
< 1274561897 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have never ever ever seen that behavior with official Nvidia drivers.
< 1274561911 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor me
< 1274561920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and my desktop is nvidia
< 1274561929 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a shitty onboard nvidia card btw.
< 1274561931 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that recent.
< 1274561938 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if disabling Compiz would help.
< 1274561941 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nvidia's drivers for Linux are very well-tested. Same drivers used for Windows, in fact.
< 1274561948 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This didn't happen in 9.04, by the way.
< 1274561952 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(they interact with kernels via an abstraction layer)
< 1274561958 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'm wondering if downgrading might help; they may have done changes without testing old low-end models.
< 1274561966 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Try it.
< 1274561971 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, only Emacs does this.
< 1274561972 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seems plausible.
< 1274561974 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Requires a reboot, so...
< 1274561977 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm reluctant :P
< 1274561983 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I could just restart X.
< 1274561986 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But defying Ubuntu is Unwise.
< 1274561990 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unbuntu.
< 1274561993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I use 173 series drivers, not the last ones there. For other bugs
< 1274562001 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lockup with DVI bugs
< 1274562003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be specific
< 1274562005 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might do that, then.
< 1274562036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, completely different bug though
< 1274562047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, also you need something that supports your card
< 1274562092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> This didn't happen in 9.04, by the way. <-- what about 9.10?
< 1274562123 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has never graced this machine.
< 1274562171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, how comes?
< 1274562228 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just didn't upgrade. It's an old machine.
< 1274562313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^source
< 1274562313 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98
< 1274562523 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh dear. I just looked at shish.c again.
< 1274562532 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My goodness that was crazy code.
< 1274562717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night
< 1274562724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, link?
< 1274562756 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/QcPH
< 1274562770 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Needs to be built with -nostdlib
< 1274562779 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And x86 only.
< 1274562890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what does it do?=
< 1274562895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/=//
< 1274562897 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a shell.
< 1274562900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1274562914 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it... work?
< 1274562920 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Barely.
< 1274562953 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw it some time ago...
< 1274562973 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it was written a while back.
< 1274563181 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does x86_64 work?
< 1274563208 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably not.
< 1274563220 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shish.c:57: error: ‘__NR_waitpid’ undeclared (first use in this function)
< 1274563221 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shish.c:57: error: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once
< 1274563221 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shish.c:57: error: for each function it appears in.)
< 1274563222 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess not.
< 1274563239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt -m32 will help with THAT
< 1274563242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but who knows
< 1274563250 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the header files I need
< 1274563252 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 32-bit ones
< 1274563292 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well yes maybe but more importantly is that int $0x80 doesn't work to do a system call on x86_64 linux afaik
< 1274563302 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah.
< 1274563329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it is syscall or nothing iirc
< 1274563331 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And my string comparison trick might not work either.
< 1274563345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, you wrote it!?
< 1274563360 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/* shit shell -- Copyright Jeffry Johnston, Josiah Worcester 2010.  License: GNU GPLv3 */
< 1274563362 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, I am one of the two authors.
< 1274563362 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least partly.
< 1274563367 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Worcestershire
< 1274563369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one?
< 1274563374 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Josiah.
< 1274563377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1274563379 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jeffry is calamari.
< 1274563380 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Josiah "pikhq" Worcester
< 1274563386 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*"Pik Headquarters"
< 1274563388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah I see
< 1274563432 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Johnston? Not Johnson?
< 1274563435 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: So I was 8, into Pokemon, and trying to make a website when I first started having screennames...
< 1274563437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typo?
< 1274563452 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jeffry is a typo too.
< 1274563455 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1274563458 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :His name is one big typo.
< 1274563464 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jeffry Johnston is correct.
< 1274563474 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Correct as in "dear parents why god why" correct.
< 1274563481 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Wait, what does pikhq have to do with pokemans?
< 1274563486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, XD
< 1274563490 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: pik->pikachu
< 1274563494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, :D
< 1274563503 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your name is pronounced like "pikachu"?
< 1274563506 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. I never knew!
< 1274563516 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Pik-etch-kyuu. Yes.
< 1274563518 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never new q -> chu.
< 1274563523 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*knew
< 1274563533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonderful
< 1274563535 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pika: Mind if I call you pika?
< 1274563539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1274563542 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or would pika-pikAA be better?
< 1274563562 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: XD
< 1274563562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch my mouth, these smilies hurt
< 1274563588 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :raihq
< 1274563590 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways. I was 8, and I'm too lazy to change my nickname.
< 1274563604 0 :raihq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I evolved from you.
< 1274563607 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's freaking been 12 years now. I think it's just stuck.
< 1274563614 0 :raihq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :POKEMON: Totally how evolution really works.
< 1274563622 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :raihq: You bastard, finding a thunderstone.
< 1274563632 0 :raihq!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :pihq
< 1274563637 0 :pihq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Diminutive am I.
< 1274563648 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi, Pichu.
< 1274563653 0 :pihq!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :alise
< 1274563655 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alisian am I.
< 1274563671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm afraid my nickname is pretty much stuck in a similar way
< 1274563686 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster unfortunately refuses to become an hero. -- example usage.
< 1274563711 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"an h" always hurts to look at.
< 1274563727 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is your name alise?
< 1274563740 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it's "a hero".
< 1274563748 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Trolling is a art.
< 1274563752 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I quote Eddie Izzard:
< 1274563764 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: In other words, you fail hard.
< 1274563788 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You say 'erb', we say 'herb', because there's a fucking h in it."
< 1274563794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay 1:45. Perfect
< 1274563815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or hm 45:1 rather I guess
< 1274563816 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You truly are oblivious, aren't you?
< 1274563820 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Anyway: An honour killing.
< 1274563825 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What?
< 1274563828 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ergo GTFO QED
< 1274563832 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oblivious to what?
< 1274563837 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: "an hero" is intentional.
< 1274563842 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, OK.
< 1274563845 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, I repeat: an honour killing.
< 1274563848 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: See, that usage of "an" doesn't hurt because the "h" is unpronounced.
< 1274563854 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I was rebutting:
< 1274563856 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Phantom_Hoover> "You say 'erb', we say 'herb', because there's a fucking h in it."
< 1274563857 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it is!
< 1274563864 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a fucking "h" in "honour".
< 1274563865 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair 'nough.
< 1274563869 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's "an honour killing".
< 1274563879 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: STOP ASSUMING THAT ENGLISH SPELLING IS SANE.
< 1274563880 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You say "haa nur"?
< 1274563886 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1274563889 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: YOU FIRST
< 1274563894 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: STOP WHINING ABOUT STUFF, PRESCRIPTIVIST
< 1274563904 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU MADE THAT WORD UP.
< 1274563920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, when measuring gear ratio, if you are gearing down relative the motor, is it 1:45 or 45:1 ?
< 1274563933 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: My expert opinion is that it is 45:1.
< 1274563948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, okay then
< 1274563957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YAY 45:1 is the perfect gear ratio!
< 1274563961 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why?
< 1274563963 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly 1:phi is.
< 1274563968 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or phi:1.
< 1274563981 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well blame lego for making the wrong engine speeds then
< 1274563994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is the perfect gear ratio for this application
< 1274564021 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is to turn the turn table of the panohead for the camera
< 1274564028 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"An analogous distinction to that of "a" and "an" was once present for possessive determiners as well. For example, "my" and "thy" became "mine" and "thine" before a vowel, as in "mine eyes". This usage is now obsolete."
< 1274564035 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... That usage is obsolete?
< 1274564043 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I honestly never realised.
< 1274564066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, who would say "mine eyes"?
< 1274564068 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, lots of "obsolete" things are used for humourous effect.
< 1274564070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean "my eyes"
< 1274564072 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I would.
< 1274564081 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, sounds archaic
< 1274564093 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq also says thou and such :P
< 1274564093 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It
< 1274564101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well yes
< 1274564103 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'s an *unintentional* archaicism from me, though.
< 1274564104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "good morrow
< 1274564105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"
< 1274564112 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes, but I'm *aware* that that's archaic.
< 1274564116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which sounds extremely archaic
< 1274564118 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ^
< 1274564124 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I say "heaven forfend" a lot.
< 1274564128 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Archaicisms amuse me.
< 1274564136 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, what does that even mean?
< 1274564149 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ~= "heaven forbid".
< 1274564153 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION will begin saying anno domino bricks
< 1274564173 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION actually does say anno domini
< 1274564194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1274564205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i nĂĄdens ĂĄr!
< 1274564205 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION also says etc. as et cetra with a hard 'c', because Church Latin sucks
< 1274564213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not sure how to translate that)
< 1274564227 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In the Year of our Lord"?
< 1274564258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, google translate suggests "in the year of grace" but I suspect your suggestion is better
< 1274564264 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this was used in English up until about the 1800s)
< 1274564269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though google is more literal
< 1274564276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but same meaning as what you suggested
< 1274564295 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, the Declaration of Independence is dated "1776, in the Year of our Lord"
< 1274564298 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, it is extremely archaic in Swedish
< 1274564321 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It had a somewhat formal tone to it even then, though.
< 1274564547 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@150.140.227.55 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274564564 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* pikhq also says etc. as et cetra with a hard 'c', because Church Latin sucks
< 1274564572 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sheesh, we all know "etc." is pronounced "and c"!
< 1274564637 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: So you too know that the ampersand is a ligature of et.
< 1274564652 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was actually uncapable of writing it until I learned that.
< 1274564704 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The prettiest ampersands are written like that.
< 1274564718 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The vulgar & form in which that almost certainly just displayed is hideous.
< 1274564733 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's one I particularly like: http://www.merton.ox.ac.uk/images/indexquote.jpg
< 1274564740 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I also like the regular Et versions.
< 1274564764 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Whenever I typeset "etc.", I set "&c." in an italic font with an ampersand that closely resembles Et.
< 1274564773 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very nice results.
< 1274564781 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, don't you mean incapable?
< 1274564800 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes, yes I do.
< 1274564839 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, yeah. I write it as a ligature because I really have no clue how you're supposed to write the more typical form.
< 1274564843 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274564847 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can do it, it just looks ugly.
< 1274564857 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And thel ligature looks nice.
< 1274564877 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably the best way to handwrite & is a curly E with two sticks at top and bottom, but the Et form is certainly the prettiest and it's the one I use even though my handwriting is atrocious (like that of a three year old's).
< 1274564895 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no desire to improve my handwriting, though, because, um, it doesn't fucking matter.
< 1274564905 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learn Chinese, and your handwriting shall improve! :P
< 1274564974 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As will my ability to communicate with people in fascist countries!
< 1274564996 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And mostly unrecognised ones!
< 1274565003 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hi there!" "Hi!" "JUNE FOURTH INCIDENT LOL (runs away)"
< 1274565006 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, if your have a & that is bound together at a top the best way is the form the lower curve then continue with the upper
< 1274565022 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The Republic of China is certainly not fascist, but not exactly recognised by most nations)
< 1274565024 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the symbol on my keyboard is bound together like that
< 1274565031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the symbol in this font is not
< 1274565040 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :South Korea seems to be the sanest of that block of countries.
< 1274565054 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Along with Japan.
< 1274565062 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Why did I forget about Japan?)
< 1274565077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, because manga and anime aren't sane? ;P
< 1274565084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, also what about ROC?
< 1274565092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to PRC
< 1274565105 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not like surrounding countries don't inherit some of the manga/anime culture.
< 1274565115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true
< 1274565124 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway it's not something I'd call "insane"; I'd call Japanese culture fucked up for entirely different reasons
< 1274565131 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such as... their entire attitude to sex.
< 1274565142 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, Taiwan is better than China but not by /that/ much.
< 1274565170 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: What, you're not going to go for Japanese nationalism as what's really fucked up about it?
< 1274565182 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: laptop work ensues
< 1274565187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is fucked up about the view on sex+
< 1274565192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/+/?/
< 1274565217 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: They have a very, very stifled and prudish attitude towards sex -- which just means that closeted perversion is the norm.
< 1274565225 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Japanese marriage isn't so very nice either.
< 1274565241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1274565250 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: (This also results in strange things such as having hentai manga not actually making you a complete social outcast.)
< 1274565259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1274565271 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I'm serious; people have it on the train.
< 1274565277 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Okay, well, yes, that too.
< 1274565286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what about nintendo love hotel?
< 1274565293 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and love hotels in general...
< 1274565312 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Love hotels are both the result of perversion *and* just a fairly simple practical need...
< 1274565329 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dense population makes reasonable amounts of privacy when having sex hard.
< 1274565337 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, I love Nintendo's history!
< 1274565338 0 :ws!wswieb@akson.sgh.waw.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274565340 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, closeted perversion + hentai on the train OK... doesn't add up
< 1274565347 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, it doesn't, does it.
< 1274565350 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Particularly with children.
< 1274565351 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I told you it was fucked up.
< 1274565375 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nintendo: [1889] Handmade card company --> cab company & love hotel --> video games [2010]
< 1274565387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cabs too?
< 1274565392 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1274565393 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and a TV network.
< 1274565396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, did the continue with the cards during that time?
< 1274565399 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They still have the card company, I think.
< 1274565401 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they tried to sell instant rice -- like instant noodles.
< 1274565407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1274565414 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Nintendo continues to manufacture playing cards in Japan[11]  and organizes its own contract bridge tournament called the "Nintendo Cup".[12]]]
< 1274565419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl urg
< 1274565424 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They've ventured out into a fairly large number of things.
< 1274565445 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they run the Seattle Mariners.
< 1274565449 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I hate Nintendo. Why? Super Mario Galaxy.
< 1274565470 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You complete the game, it's easy. Now you do all the levels you didn't do, including the single most evil level of any video game ever created: Luigi's Purple Coins (YOU DO NOT WANT TO KNOW).
< 1274565481 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you play the entire game again, including boss level, as Luigi, who jumps and moves differently.
< 1274565499 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, did I mention? Before Luigi you do the boss level again.
< 1274565502 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you finish off all the levels you didn't do as Luigi.
< 1274565507 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you do the boss level for the fourth and final time.
< 1274565517 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now you get one shitty, small congratulation world that you can do in five minutes and is not much at all.
< 1274565519 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do it as both Luigi and Mario.
< 1274565523 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tada, you now hate life.
< 1274565556 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do not do 100% completion on games. It isn't worth it.
< 1274565569 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except *possibly* Mario 64?
< 1274565572 0 :bughi!~bughi@86.58.48.144 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274565706 0 :bughi!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1274565820 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Nothing else to play at the unit, though.
< 1274565821 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More or less.
< 1274565834 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except Mario Kart, which is only fun if you have a good opponent and haven't played the same levels over and over already.
< 1274565908 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Ah.
< 1274565950 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: So, they'd frown on, say, hacking the Wii so you could have Super Mario World going?
< 1274565956 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't you even bring stuff of your own?
< 1274566077 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Probably.
< 1274566081 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I don't own a Wii, or any Wii games.
< 1274566089 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1274566104 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274566200 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, there's a tex2mail.
< 1274566202 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You'd hate that. :-)
< 1274566212 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bit crappy, though:
< 1274566213 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird@ehird-desktop:~/research/2010-05$ perl tex2mail
< 1274566214 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$$zeta(s) = \sum_{n=1}^\infty \frac{1}{n^s}, \quad Re(s) > 1.$$
< 1274566214 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :     
< 1274566214 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                              \~~   oo1
< 1274566214 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                    zeta(s) =  >     --,    Re(s) > 1.
< 1274566214 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                              /__ n=1 s
< 1274566216 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                                     n
< 1274566230 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other things it handles better:
< 1274566232 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird@ehird-desktop:~/research/2010-05$ perl tex2mail
< 1274566232 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$$\int x^m (\ln x)^n\; dx
< 1274566232 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := \frac{x^{m+1}}{m+1}
< 1274566232 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : \cdot \sum_{i=0}^n (-1)^i \frac{(n)_i}{(m+1)^i} (\ln x)^{n-i}$$
< 1274566232 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :     
< 1274566233 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                             m+1                   (n)
< 1274566235 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :         ,- m       n       x       \~~   n     i     i        n-i
< 1274566237 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :         | x  (ln x)   dx = ----  .  >      (-1)  ------ (ln x)
< 1274566239 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        -'                  m+1     /__ i=0            i
< 1274566241 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                                                  (m+1)
< 1274566301 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> Except *possibly* Mario 64 <-- almost worth it there
< 1274566303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not quite
< 1274566320 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's at least amusing most of the way.
< 1274566359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, you can't ride on yoshi though
< 1274566360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/
< 1274566377 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you could, it would *definitely* be worth it.
< 1274566380 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Freaking Yoshi!
< 1274566389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly
< 1274566418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, also that wet-dry land thing where you have to go into that town thingy is freaking annoying
< 1274566439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one were you adjust water levels
< 1274566441 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guys, I just realised something.
< 1274566445 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :roff is actually... pretty good.
< 1274566455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, nroff? groff? troff?
< 1274566471 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean the language itself, but let's just say groff.
< 1274566478 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1274566479 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eqn is also pretty okay for doing mathematics in roff.
< 1274566488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it is pretty annoying IMO
< 1274566493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much worse than TeX
< 1274566494 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the excuse for
< 1274566500 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNIX being developed is not terrible.
< 1274566501 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1274566519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ?
< 1274566520 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well; getting *funded* and developed)
< 1274566542 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.nr PS 12
< 1274566542 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.nr PO 1i
< 1274566542 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.nr LL 6.5i
< 1274566542 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.TL
< 1274566542 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Howdy doody
< 1274566542 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.AU
< 1274566544 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elliott Hird
< 1274566546 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.LP
< 1274566548 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Totally bitchin'.
< 1274566550 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see anything abhorrent about that.
< 1274566554 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, manpage roff is an abomination.
< 1274566558 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But -ms is... just fine...
< 1274566563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-ms?
< 1274566571 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: UNIX was made to play a game. Then, AT&T wanted a typesetting system. So, they made one for UNIX and claimed the whole thing as the typesetting system.
< 1274566573 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The general paper/article writing command set.
< 1274566573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and man page roff is the only roff I know
< 1274566580 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Different macro sets.
< 1274566588 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, eqn's input format is actually more legible than TeX's:
< 1274566592 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ... which game?
< 1274566592 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sum from {k=1} to N {k sup 2}
< 1274566597 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Spacewars
< 1274566604 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Spacewar!
< 1274566617 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm... is that the one where you have two opponents=
< 1274566628 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno
< 1274566638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm not the one
< 1274566713 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haha wow, nroff even handles EQN equations
< 1274566723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually
< 1274566724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The basic gameplay of Spacewar! involves two armed spaceships called "the needle" and "the wedge" attempting to shoot one another while maneuvering in the gravity well of a star. The ships fired missiles that were unaffected by gravity (due to a lack of processing time)"
< 1274566734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it is the one I was thinking about
< 1274566978 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION typesets the definition of the zeta function with eqn and groff
< 1274566988 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You know... the HAKMEM authors had no excuse.
< 1274567004 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They had a perfectly cromulent typesetting system available to them -- they just didn't like Unix. :-)
< 1274567005 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yeah...
< 1274567055 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\[*z](s) = sum from {n = 1} to inf { 1 over {n sup s} }
< 1274567057 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^ Not hard.
< 1274567081 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can actually be simplified to:
< 1274567084 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~chatzilla@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274567087 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\[*z](s) = sum from n=1 to inf {1 over n sup s}
< 1274567102 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also
< 1274567103 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\[*z](s) = sum n=1 to inf {1 over n sup s}
< 1274567393 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Oh, and did I mention?
< 1274567399 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: EQN invented the $...$ notation.
< 1274567400 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you do
< 1274567401 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.EQ
< 1274567402 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :delim $$
< 1274567402 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.EN
< 1274567404 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you can say
< 1274567416 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let $alpha sub i$ be the primary variable, and let $beta$ be zero. Then we can show that $x sub 1$ is $>=0$.
< 1274567426 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it can even handle inline sums, etc.
< 1274567433 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This thing invented TeX before Knuth!
< 1274567606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what about TeX line break algorithm?
< 1274567612 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274567624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun thing... fsck sda1 vs. fsck /dev/sda1
< 1274567625 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :groff has good justification (it was used for lost of articles and such)
< 1274567628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the former shows help
< 1274567632 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not quite as mathematically perfect as TeX, but just fine.
< 1274567635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second does what you expect
< 1274567636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF
< 1274567638 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And roff is more modular:
< 1274567643 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: hackbot is missing
< 1274567649 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eqn is an entirely separate program to all the roffs.
< 1274567656 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It generates the relevant roff instructions.
< 1274567713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> .EQ
< 1274567714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> delim $$
< 1274567714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> .EN
< 1274567719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if you don't include that
< 1274567725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are the delimiters then=
< 1274567731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/=/?/
< 1274567735 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :None by default.
< 1274567749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so why did it invent $$ then?
< 1274567756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was it just a common choice of letter?
< 1274567758 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because that's included in the manual.
< 1274567767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1274567777 0 :calamari!~calamari@ip70-162-184-205.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274567809 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha, it lets you use actual tabs to space out stuff.
< 1274567846 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1274568118 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1274568300 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb
< 1274568377 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im all spaced out
< 1274568490 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1274568570 0 :tombom!~tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274568679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night
< 1274568717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net
< 1274568724 0 :Guest27685!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host
< 1274568724 0 :Guest27685!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274568732 0 :Guest27685!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :jcp
< 1274568751 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heyo
< 1274568768 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: *hackego
< 1274569032 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> Phantom_Hoover: No; someone who murders isn't a serial killer.
< 1274569044 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the series was abrupted cancelled after the first episode
< 1274569048 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*abruptly
< 1274569105 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which series
< 1274569130 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reiser series
< 1274569167 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o
< 1274569196 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1274569199 0 :tombom_!~tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274569202 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders whether to include more context in his log quotes in the future.  Nah.
< 1274569209 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree, nah
< 1274569299 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<AnMaster> alise, but what do the russian think of it
< 1274569308 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://filebin.ca/jfjfa/zeta.pdf A test of groff+eqn, and the code generating it: http://pastie.org/972803.txt?key=7lsbxeagajpofaixjsn5ya
< 1274569309 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ^
< 1274569323 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :russia has an extreme shortage of men, that may have something to do with it too
< 1274569329 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Easy? Yep... pretty easy.
< 1274569345 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And people say roff is all incomprehensible dots and backslashes.
< 1274569375 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: extreme? "Russia has always suffered from a shortage of men relative to the number of women (currently men make up only 44% of the total population)."
< 1274569384 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a shortage, but extreme?
< 1274569527 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell (\(.)->('H':).('i':).(' ':).('r':).('o').('f':))(.)"f"
< 1274569561 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grmbl
< 1274569593 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell (\(.)->('H':).('i':).(' ':).('r':).('o':).('f':))(.)"f"
< 1274569595 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hi roff"
< 1274569634 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok could need more backslashes
< 1274569647 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lambdalambdalambda
< 1274569952 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> No, it exists platonically.
< 1274569964 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing involving rule 34 can exist platonically, sheesh
< 1274569970 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Platonic sex!
< 1274570920 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zaidwaqi.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/mathinputpanel.png
< 1274570929 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. The first useful Windows 7 feature is discovered.
< 1274570966 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:25:18 <alise> I never new q -> chu.
< 1274570977 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that approximately what it is in pinyin?
< 1274571032 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. the dynasty from which the western word "china" is derived is now spelled Qin
< 1274571081 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: q in pinyin is a ch-like sound
< 1274571085 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but pinyin also has ch
< 1274571094 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the chinese themselves prefer the Han dynasty, since Qin was a book-burning despotism
< 1274571098 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :)
< 1274571101 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they differ slightly in the shape and position of the tongue
< 1274571201 0 :tombom_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1274571590 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: As do the rest of the CJK languages.
< 1274572307 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274572475 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: that is rather useful!
< 1274572484 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(bit late but ...)
< 1274572547 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, I sometimes respond to things hours later
< 1274572554 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;)
< 1274572670 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the most common font size used with LaTeX?
< 1274572683 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: yeah apparently you can use a laptop touchpad to input the maths
< 1274572688 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure how it'll do advancing though
< 1274572692 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still: kick ass!
< 1274572698 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now put that on a tablet computer
< 1274572700 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hook it up to a CAS
< 1274572702 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bliss achieved?
< 1274572703 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11, the default.
< 1274572721 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funny. With roff people seem to use 10pt and 12pt, but not 11pt.
< 1274572729 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its probably a bit slower than typing tho
< 1274572731 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course with -ms you can set it easily:
< 1274572733 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.nr PS <points>
< 1274572737 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: not for complex mathematical notation
< 1274572741 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typing with automatic math recognition, i mean
< 1274572744 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it requires mental translation
< 1274572751 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh
< 1274572753 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont know
< 1274572756 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grapher has a nice interface for that
< 1274572782 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that equation is simply
< 1274572795 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274572797 0 :EgoBot!~EgoBot@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274572797 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274572824 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: that equation is simple
< 1274572832 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not all are
< 1274572844 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting thing about -ms: it defaults to using blank spaces to separate paragraphs, not paragraph indentation.
< 1274572852 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s_n RIGHT = n/2 RIGHT ( a_1 RIGHT a_n RIGHT
< 1274572858 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, minus the last right
< 1274572863 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, simple equation
< 1274572871 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but eh..
< 1274572872 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont know
< 1274572875 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either way its cool
< 1274572879 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be nice to have on a blackboard
< 1274572900 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd love to have a giant interactive blackboard
< 1274572920 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: 10pt or 12pt, which would you rather read a mathematical paper in (disregarding 11pt)
< 1274572994 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably 12.
< 1274573006 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait:
< 1274573007 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :       Use  the  PP  macro  to create indented paragraphs, and the LP macro to
< 1274573007 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :       create paragraphs with no initial indent.
< 1274573016 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yeah; 10 is better for two-column text, I think.
< 1274573091 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if one should adjust the initial line indent when changing the font size.
< 1274573092 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably.
< 1274573376 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, why does -ms have to share a name with Microsoft's acronym.
< 1274573381 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So hard to google for.
< 1274573410 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grrrr
< 1274573422 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The T-Mobile N1 users have Froyo access without rooting
< 1274573423 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274573434 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using an AT&T N1, and don't feel like rooting
< 1274573437 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274573680 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't suppose anyone has used -ms?
< 1274573829 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, challenge?
< 1274573862 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1274573867 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Challenge?
< 1274573876 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :want to take one? :D
< 1274573880 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a minor little programming challenge
< 1274573883 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but
< 1274573891 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you solve my roff problem, sure.
< 1274573903 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats roff
< 1274573918 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Typesetting system. The reason UNIX was created.
< 1274573930 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"man groff_ms" in particular is the bit I'm having troubles with.
< 1274573931 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1274573945 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to put a date in my title header, but not on the cover page; the two macros it lists for adding dates to the cover page don't work.
< 1274573955 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: no quite literally the reason it was created
< 1274573962 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was what they got the grant money for
< 1274573976 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting
< 1274574019 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what's the challenge
< 1274574067 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gimme a sec
< 1274574367 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur:
< 1274574390 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cos that was 300
< 1274574554 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death
< 1274574586 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok ehird
< 1274574590 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, rather
< 1274574674 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alisey hird
< 1274574686 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1274574898 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://filebin.ca/zuput/example.pdf Some more roff fluff, and the code that generated it: http://pastie.org/972885.txt?key=v368qgkjxe5ym05ueotg
< 1274574903 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ^ How does the font size in this look?
< 1274574997 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Huh. Groff actually produces reasonable output.
< 1274575002 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ok, here goes
< 1274575007 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yep, groff + eqn.
< 1274575016 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually prefer how it sets the derivative definition to how TeX does it.
< 1274575017 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's no TeX, but that's not bad typesetting.
< 1274575028 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The input was easy to do, too: http://pastie.org/972885.txt?key=v368qgkjxe5ym05ueotg
< 1274575053 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well it WAS written by James Clark, Mr. "I was educated at Charterhouse. I read Mathematics and Philosophy at Merton College, Oxford, where I obtained Class I Honours." http://jclark.com/jjc-wg8.jpg
< 1274575058 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assume you have custom-definable pair data types, and custom atomic values
< 1274575062 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Ah, yes.
< 1274575077 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Anyway, think I should up the font size? Please say no; I'd have to adjust all the other values accordingly.
< 1274575093 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks nice and readable.
< 1274575100 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's 10pt, funnily enough.
< 1274575114 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I definitely like http://pastie.org/972885.txt?key=v368qgkjxe5ym05ueotg more than the equivalent LaTeX you'd need to generate that. The boilerplate is tedious.
< 1274575118 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and assume you have already one kind of pair type, call it a normal pair, denoted by (x,y)
< 1274575124 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although plain TeX might be better, it's a bit bare bones.
< 1274575132 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: So we are assuming a language?
< 1274575139 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get the strong feeling that groff takes inspiration from TeX in its output.
< 1274575143 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Custom-definable pair data types -- what do you mean?
< 1274575151 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make up the language as you go, so long as it fits the constraints defined
< 1274575153 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in you can specify N types
< 1274575156 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for instance, it seems to be using the same line-breaking algorithm)
< 1274575164 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Actually, its output is almost identical to traditional troff.
< 1274575176 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :custom-definable, like haskell's compound data types, but pairs only, restricted to two values exactly
< 1274575189 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think of them as tagged cons pairs, if you want
< 1274575197 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Two files for your consideration: http://www.kohala.com/start/troff/v7man/trofftut/trofftut.ps http://www.kohala.com/start/troff/v7man/eqn/eqn2e.ps
< 1274575208 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Okay, so, axioms:
< 1274575215 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: So, it's more that only real computer scientists can do computer typesetting well, then?
< 1274575246 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(A:Type, B:Type) => (C:Type) s.t. for all (x:A, y:B), (x,y):C.
< 1274575259 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :custom atomic values -- like Lisp symbols?
< 1274575265 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Pretty much.
< 1274575266 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure
< 1274575270 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: or numbers?
< 1274575273 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or any sort of atom?
< 1274575280 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically any predefined infinite type, right?
< 1274575281 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or like haskell's atomic values. data Blip = Bop | Dorp
< 1274575293 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah.
< 1274575294 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i also dont care about the types in the pairs. they dont have to be typed, honestly.
< 1274575302 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the pairs themselves are typed tho
< 1274575304 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The axiom, then, is that "we have type definition".
< 1274575306 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<augur> and assume you have already one kind of pair type, call it a normal pair, denoted by (x,y)
< 1274575307 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can pattern match
< 1274575308 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Polymorphic?
< 1274575317 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want
< 1274575320 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get it.
< 1274575324 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever works for the task
< 1274575328 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is there any other type of pair other than the normal pair (x,y)?
< 1274575338 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Flip x y
< 1274575343 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, pikhq: Y'know, I'm doing some FAIRLY major restructuring of Op. 13
< 1274575345 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is not data Blop x y
< 1274575345 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JUST FOR YOU
< 1274575352 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if x and y are integers
< 1274575364 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I imagine TeX handles complex things a bit better than it, but honestly, troff's output is quite nice. It does things right.
< 1274575377 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're pairs, right? ones a Flip the others a Blop, but they're pairs. they're just different "kinds" of pairs
< 1274575431 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yeah; I can see myself using this for little notes.
< 1274575433 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Awesome.
< 1274575433 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: So:
< 1274575437 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(A:Type, B:Type) => (C:Type, C*: A,B => C) s.t. for all (a:A, b:B, c:A, d:B), (C*(a,b) = C*(c,d)) <=> (a = c /\ b = d).
< 1274575449 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont know what that means :P
< 1274575464 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We can then define normal pair ourselves, so.
< 1274575474 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, yeah, a normal pair is just, say
< 1274575479 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Pair x y
< 1274575502 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway
< 1274575504 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the challenge is this
< 1274575509 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming that you have that stuff
< 1274575513 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(A:Type, B:Type) => (C:Type, C*: A,B => C) s.t. for all (a:A, b:B, c:A, d:B), (C*(a,b) = C*(c,d)) <=> (a = c /\ b = d).
< 1274575513 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(N:nat) => (A:Type, A*: nat (< N) => A).
< 1274575531 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The latter lets us have "type 3" along with the values 3*(0), 3*(1), 3*(2).
< 1274575536 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Okay. Go ahead.
< 1274575557 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can you define a collection of tail recursive operations over pairs (of one type or another as you see fit), that will let you replace an arbitrary item in some complex normal pair
< 1274575570 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. i want to replace the 3 in (1,((2,3),4)) with a 0
< 1274575580 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could define something like this:
< 1274575598 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So this is just a language-inventing challenge?
< 1274575598 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SwapAll x = 0
< 1274575642 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SwapLeft (x,y) = (SwapAll x, y) OR (SwapLeft x, y) OR (SwapRight x, y)
< 1274575658 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your challenge is too vague for me to do anything.
< 1274575664 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not know what I am supposed to be doing. Defining a language?
< 1274575664 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SwapRight (x,y) = (x, SwapAll y) OR (x, SwapLeft y) OR (x, SwapRight Y)
< 1274575677 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :define the operations
< 1274575709 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just defined three operations there that, with appropriate choice of the alternatives, will let you swap the 3 for a 0 in (1,((2,3),4))
< 1274575729 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, you're going to have to be more specific.
< 1274575732 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Define the operations in what language?
< 1274575740 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where is the part that I get "marked" on?
< 1274575741 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont care
< 1274575745 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just make it formal enough to grasp
< 1274575748 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I can use an existing language?
< 1274575795 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SwapRight (1,((2,3),4)) => (1, SwapLeft ((2,3), 4)) => (1, (SwapRight (2,3), 4)) => (1,((2,SwapAll 3), 4)) => (1,((2,0),4))
< 1274575828 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am still left baffled at
< 1274575832 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  1. what exactly SwapRight does; and
< 1274575835 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  2. what I am supposed to do.
< 1274575869 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SwapRight (x,y) says "do some swapping in the right (y) element of the pair (x,y), replacing something there with the number 0"
< 1274575876 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it gives you three ways you can do this
< 1274575887 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can swap something in the left of y
< 1274575892 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can swap something in the right of y
< 1274575896 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you can swap the whole of y
< 1274575913 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think of it as an alternative in a rewriting system
< 1274576009 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: I see.
< 1274576012 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does it decide which?
< 1274576021 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Give me one good reason not to write my own typesetting system!
< 1274576048 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh. who cares. it's not a targetting replacement. the choice is free, and whichever choice is made results in whichever replacements
< 1274576080 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to replace 3, thats the series of choices you'd have to make
< 1274576114 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I can't.
< 1274576119 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, crucially, that definition is fully recursive
< 1274576133 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the swap operations are applying to deeper and deeper parts of the pair
< 1274576138 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ^_^
< 1274576148 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: This means I get to learn about typography and things!
< 1274576154 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Huzzah.
< 1274576177 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, and macros, and syntax, and...
< 1274576212 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Of course, now the thing is to resist all temptations to reverse-engineer.
< 1274576221 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err
< 1274576223 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Of course, now the thing is to resist all temptations to over-engineer.
< 1274576232 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1274576250 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274576469 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-243-203-60.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274576469 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do, however, like lout's functional take on stuff.
< 1274576486 0 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274576526 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: reason to not write typesetting system: you could use TeX
< 1274576535 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's wrong with overengineering, said the creator of PSOX
< 1274576714 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Where's the fun in that?
< 1274576868 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :G.E.B. was typeset with some system called SMUT before anyone else was doing it.
< 1274577063 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok; I must admit that TeX formulas are horrible compared to OOO's :p
< 1274577129 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Horrible?
< 1274577131 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like howso?
< 1274577139 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In typesetting output? If you think so you are insane.
< 1274577143 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In input format? Ehh, point.
< 1274577147 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it /is/ very extensible...
< 1274577223 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, in input
< 1274577237 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OOO could be made extensible as well, I think
< 1274577247 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: nothing?
< 1274577250 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OO.o sucks though.
< 1274577253 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no ideas? :(
< 1274577258 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: <alise> augur: I see.
< 1274577258 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> How does it decide which?
< 1274577268 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i answered that!
< 1274577273 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274577281 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274577289 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274577293 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i answered that. :|
< 1274577302 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing parsing is *not that hard*
< 1274577304 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you did not
< 1274577308 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: of course not.
< 1274577317 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did!
< 1274577346 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you dont decide. you do whatever you want. the choices you make lead to different replacements. its not a targetted replacement _algorithm_, its just a series of operations
< 1274577362 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of like with a formal grammar
< 1274577382 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IF you want to produce this or that sentence, then you'd have to make these choices of rule application
< 1274577401 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: what stages would/will your typesetting system use?
< 1274577405 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the algorithm is for making that choice, well, thats the parsing problem and thats not the goal here
< 1274577416 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the goal is the definition of the possible choices
< 1274577427 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Stages defined howso?
< 1274577435 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Would you be upset if I said I thought your problem was boring? :(
< 1274577453 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope
< 1274577477 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: >_> Sorry.
< 1274577484 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a bit tired mind.
< 1274577485 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ill give you a solution
< 1274577488 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe tomorrow
< 1274577493 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/./
< 1274577512 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: e.g., TeX's stages are input->macros->lines->pages->output
< 1274577529 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here is the solution i know of
< 1274577575 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we let * be the operator for a special "continuation" pair
< 1274577582 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Push x = x*1
< 1274577584 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: well, input -> obviously
< 1274577586 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pop x*1 = x
< 1274577597 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then parser which would parse things like {} and . -- but we'd handle defined characters earlier
< 1274577602 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :things like
< 1274577603 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"abc"
< 1274577606 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would expand to
< 1274577608 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Left1 (x,y)*z = x*(y,z)
< 1274577609 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.ldq abc .rdq
< 1274577613 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for pretty quotes
< 1274577615 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at this time
< 1274577618 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Left2 = x*(y,z) = (x,y)*z
< 1274577618 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, wait, no
< 1274577622 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd parse it into objects
< 1274577627 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/then/ it'd do that
< 1274577637 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :commands like .foo {abc} would be seen as functions transforming a typesetting-object to another one
< 1274577638 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right1 (x,y)*z = y*(z,x)
< 1274577643 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right2 y*(z,x) = (x,y)*z
< 1274577645 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe a clearer pipeline: input->tokens->conditionals->macro expansion->boxes->lines->pages->output
< 1274577646 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :End.
< 1274577647 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then ->pages->output
< 1274577655 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{abc} would basically be a box
< 1274577662 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is basically the lout system, I'd differentiate it somehow
< 1274577686 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ensure that fancy quotes and ligatures are disabled when fixed pitch fonts are being used
< 1274577748 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2600 doesn't disable ligatures with fixed pitch fonts, and that is a problem
< 1274577751 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Fixed pitch fonts won't be being used, presumably -- if you would use a fixed pitch font, why use a typesetter?
< 1274577756 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or do you mean in e.g. verbatim code snippet sections?
< 1274577760 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In which case, yes, I agree.
< 1274577772 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2600 the magazine? Or some other 2600?
< 1274577778 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I mean in small sections embedded in the document, such as verbatim code snippet section and stuff like that
< 1274577783 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I mean 2600 magazine
< 1274577834 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my ideal pipeline would be input->program->{libraries}->execute->output
< 1274577841 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: A goal with my system would be to support easy preprocessors, such that you can have things like mathematics typesetting as separate programs that scan through the text, and look for their commands and then rewrite their contents with more primitive drawing commands.
< 1274577872 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: issat make sense?
< 1274577879 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you'd have something like "mathset foo | refset | tableset | typeset".
< 1274577885 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Yes.
< 1274577892 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Sort of.
< 1274577902 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on top of that, just add a rule
< 1274577912 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Swap x*y => 0*y
< 1274577939 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so now to replace the 3 in (1,((2,3),4)):
< 1274578005 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and uh ... replacing the push rule's 1 with an @ because im na idiot
< 1274578019 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/ikfxw.png
< 1274578024 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oldie but a goodie
< 1274578072 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1,((2,3),4)) ==Push==> (1,((2,3),4))*@ ==Right==> ((2,3),4)*(@,1) ==Left==> (2,3)*(4,(@,1)) ==Right==> 3*((4,(@,1)),2) ==Swap==> 0*((4,(@,1)),2)
< 1274578093 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i trust you can figure out how to reverse this now to pull the shit back to get (1,((2,0),4))
< 1274578094 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1274578185 0 :comex_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :comex
< 1274578244 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex mexicom
< 1274578296 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my password on normish used to be comexico
< 1274578303 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird came up with it, I think
< 1274578305 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some context, alise: traditional proof systems only allow "shallow inferences" which are essentially just operations at the root of the structure being manipulated
< 1274578308 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when e generated my account
< 1274578327 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i did
< 1274578332 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you want to replace an element deep inside the object being manipulated, you have to figure out some way of bringing that object to the "surface"
< 1274578362 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in a non-destructive way, so you dont loose any information and can recover the original object, modulo the swap
< 1274578372 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://nedroid.com/comics/2010-05-19-beartato-guesswhat.gif
< 1274578380 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it's safe to reveil what my password for Circe's SVN was
< 1274578406 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cyborg surgery! :D
< 1274578415 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: "Maybe"?
< 1274578416 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MAYBE?
< 1274578418 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jesus christ man.
< 1274578430 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: you should move to comexico and sign letters with
< 1274578434 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Comex,
< 1274578438 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: did you write this comic
< 1274578440 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mexico,
< 1274578443 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i feel like you would write something like this
< 1274578446 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Com.
< 1274578450 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: no it's nedroid.com
< 1274578454 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes it is totally my style.
< 1274578456 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(except better)
< 1274578459 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you're nedroid!
< 1274578464 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i don't think so
< 1274578466 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe nedroid is you
< 1274578472 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IN THE FUTURE
< 1274578509 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly not; I would never make such a blatant error as to refer to the INTEGER OF PI: http://nedroid.com/comics/2010-05-12-beartato-bignerd.gif
< 1274578517 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless he was talking about actually getting the computer to calculate... "3"
< 1274578532 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ctcpgod
< 1274578807 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, no ##grammarnazis channel
< 1274578976 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank god.
< 1274579040 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I wanted to know whether it was "negative one bean" or "negative one beans"
< 1274579062 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good question.
< 1274579091 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: If I was giving a figure, I might use the latter, but as a list perhaps "Negative two beans, negative one bean, no beans, one bean, two beans, ...".
< 1274579092 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure.
< 1274579099 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bean, I think.
< 1274579185 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: "Negative one bean", thinks my Oxford-educated (okay this is becoming a bit of a stretch) friend.
< 1274579194 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although that was preceded with an "I don't know.")
< 1274579288 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Singular "bean"
< 1274579297 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually looked this up at some point because it's really wonky :P
< 1274579316 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From an English standpoint, it's read as negative (one bean), not (negative one) bean
< 1274579379 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Mind you, "looked it up" = asked my mom the librarian and later saw that "the tuberwebs" agrees :P )
< 1274579385 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all moot since you'll all die from the antimatter explosion anyway
< 1274579511 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to Road to Reality book, "negative one proton" would be "one virtual anti-proton"
< 1274579512 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True
< 1274579543 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I like "protoff" for anti-protons
< 1274579558 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1274579580 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anti-electrons already has a different name which is "positron", so perhaps anti-protons also
< 1274579595 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT WHAT ABOUT ANTI-POSITRONS.
< 1274579608 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION punches alise
< 1274579614 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just "electrons", I think?
< 1274579618 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: hey i was going to swat him
< 1274579636 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tremulous map downloads take a while.
< 1274579648 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: So does your FACE.
< 1274579702 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How to download curl? It doesn't work
< 1274579797 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274579811 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: curl -O http://curl.haxx.se/download/curl-7.20.1.tar.gz
< 1274579865 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*facepalm*
< 1274579882 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to do that too :p
< 1274579891 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't have curl already
< 1274579896 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And anyways that server seems down
< 1274579913 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: let me break this to you gently...
< 1274579921 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have wget
< 1274579929 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think Gregor knew that
< 1274579940 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps this mirror will work
< 1274579948 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I think so too, probably it is joke?
< 1274579971 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think most probably, it is joke.
< 1274579997 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes
< 1274580006 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: source or binary?
< 1274580027 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1274580034 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Win32 binary
< 1274580093 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use this: http://www.gknw.net/mirror/curl/win32/curl-7.20.1-devel-mingw32.zip
< 1274580159 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's good
< 1274580166 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I have curl and wget
< 1274580244 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I think I just need to add it to the PATH
< 1274580454 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20min ddownload for a freaking map
< 1274580558 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works
< 1274580564 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/dfZA
< 1274580937 0 :augur!~augur@pool-108-56-53-157.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274580945 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it good?
< 1274580964 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A similar way could be written for UNIX systems too
< 1274581000 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a decent shell script.
< 1274581041 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o hai
< 1274581104 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone here familiar with lout?
< 1274581265 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't familiar with lout
< 1274581299 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: you're a lout
< 1274581332 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed, but unrelatedly, the typesetting system ...
< 1274581355 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Different Linux distribution might use different code-names schemes for their versions, but I have my own scheme if I make Linux distribution (probably I will start when I get another computer to test it with, which might be in a few months since that is when Free Geek will provide one):
< 1274581408 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First version can be called "Initial", second version "Illimitable Illithid", fourth version "Interrupt Vector", sixth version "Vancouver Island", do you think this is good scheme? Do you like this?
< 1274581514 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I don't want to include any non-free
< 1274581542 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's a good naming scheme
< 1274581542 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1
< 1274581542 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2
< 1274581543 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3
< 1274581543 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4
< 1274581544 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already have the ISO for Linux From Scratch, but I didn't record a DVD with it yet
< 1274581544 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5
< 1274581544 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6
< 1274581546 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7
< 1274581548 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8
< 1274581550 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1274581552 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :G_64
< 1274581554 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1274581566 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Roman numeral backronyms, eh?
< 1274581584 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt I (or anyone else) would ever make a Linux distribution as many versions as high as G_64??
< 1274581587 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes
< 1274581595 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice.
< 1274581608 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian uses Toy Story, and Ubuntu uses two word both start with one same letter
< 1274581620 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if Slackware decides to do another version skip, it might skip straight to G_64.
< 1274581658 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe, but I don't think so, because such numbers are probably too large to use in a computer program in the version number field
< 1274581661 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Ubuntu uses [Adjective] [Animal] alliteratively
< 1274581678 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes, that's what I meant
< 1274581684 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SYMBOLIC version = SymbolicIndex(GrahamsNumber, SymbolicNumber(64));
< 1274581691 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SYMBOLIC version = SymbolicIndex(GrahamsNumbers, SymbolicNumber(64));
< 1274582252 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote a program called "Field Manipulator" do you think this is OK? http://sprunge.us/GWRY
< 1274582290 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure what it does but there you go
< 1274582321 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does field manipulator, that is what it does!
< 1274582327 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Article Adverb Adjective Animals
< 1274582361 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: wut/
< 1274582413 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: You should write your own typesetting system.
< 1274582414 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet it'd be awesome.
< 1274582479 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want the first field of a file and separated by colons, you do:  fm -t58 Tmx
< 1274582492 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's how you do it.
< 1274582528 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you want to add zero at the start of each line, you do:  fm m "0"
< 1274582535 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See? Now you know.
< 1274582559 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool.
< 1274582691 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I probably don't write a typesetting system, although I have done the stuff that is used before a typesetting systems
< 1274582870 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Just make it output postscript >_>
< 1274583329 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make what output postscript?
< 1274583368 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: A typesetting system.
< 1274583371 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it's "easy"
< 1274583470 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't plan to write a typesetting system
< 1274583483 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I might do so if I change my mind
< 1274583595 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to port ADVENT to something.
< 1274583614 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274584353 0 :ws!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ...
< 1274584874 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274586627 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, pikhq: Now soliciting opinions on http://codu.org/music/op13/GRegor-op13-mov1-wipp4.ogg . Op. 13 will probably be in two movements maybe perhaps.
< 1274586729 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I apparently cannot has HTTP ATM.
< 1274586742 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll grant you an opinion next time I can has bandwidth.
< 1274586744 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawlz
< 1274586770 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, think "the non-stormy parts of WIPP3, rearranged to flow hopefully well together" :P
< 1274586777 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm.
< 1274586803 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm defining the parts with the repeating arpeggio in the right hand as "stormy" btw :P
< 1274586819 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmkay.
< 1274586823 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, ABOVE RECORDED WHILE NUDE.
< 1274586826 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just FYI.
< 1274586834 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1274586883 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...:|
< 1274586886 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY DID YOU SAY THAT.
< 1274586900 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I felt it was important information :P
< 1274587011 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sleep time nao.
< 1274587012 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye!
< 1274587015 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1274587064 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My God he's sleeping on a Saturday night.
< 1274587079 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. Sunday morning.
< 1274587082 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Still*.
< 1274587105 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT ON THE SABBATH
< 1274587258 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1274587717 0 :augur_!~augur@pool-74-96-4-127.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274587857 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1274587933 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Port ADVENT into TAVSYS
< 1274587953 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must confess, I read that as "Port ADVENT into TARDIS".
< 1274587978 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is TARDIS?
< 1274587999 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... You're kidding.
< 1274588000 0 :gm|lap!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274588012 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1274588018 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT WHO WAS PHONE (BOOTH)
< 1274588037 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which phone booth did you mean? The phone booth or the phone booth?
< 1274588043 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the TARDIS
< 1274588048 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: You. Watch Doctor Who. Now.
< 1274588056 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have that tape
< 1274588059 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(don't worry about seeing the whole thing, unless you have a couple years to spare)
< 1274588085 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or perhaps I do have that tape, but I don't think I have that tape
< 1274588122 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps port ADVEN into TAVSYS and also port ADVENT into TARDIS
< 1274588128 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a TV series. The most popular one in Britain, last I check.
< 1274588134 0 :Zuu!zuu@0x55529f1b.adsl.cybercity.dk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274588134 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host
< 1274588135 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274588140 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that much already
< 1274588157 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't live in Britain
< 1274588160 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The TARDIS is one of the most recognisable features of it.
< 1274588173 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is also much-beloved by many American sci-fi fans.
< 1274588180 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK
< 1274588282 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I still don't have it
< 1274588291 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obtain it.
< 1274588295 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has heard of Dr. Who, but never saw it
< 1274588296 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And watch it.
< 1274588300 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where can I watch?
< 1274588305 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And where do I start?
< 1274588323 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: You need to purchase the tape, of course!
< 1274588332 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps you need more than one tape
< 1274588334 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not purchasing anything
< 1274588337 0 :augur!~augur@pool-74-96-4-127.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274588338 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The easiest way to start is to start with Series 1 of the recent reboot.
< 1274588346 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure of an easy place to obtain it.
< 1274588357 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I'm sure BitTorrent has a nearly-comprehensive collection.
< 1274588367 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: If you live in Britain perhaps you can see
< 1274588374 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't know because I don't have at Britain
< 1274588378 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't
< 1274588390 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I thought.
< 1274588391 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't feel like torrenting illegal stuff
< 1274588393 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some 100G for the whole thing.
< 1274588417 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not all episodes have had official releases.
< 1274588434 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A few of the early episodes have no known copies, sadly.
< 1274588471 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :New episodes can be found on BBCA on Sunday, IIRC.
< 1274588485 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly dr who is a secret alien plot to make humans invent time travel.
< 1274588497 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they can find those original episodes.
< 1274588532 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't say I wouldn't be willing to watch illegal, just that I don't want to torrent illegally
< 1274588632 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I invented Spider Tarot
< 1274588654 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spider, rider, what's the difference
< 1274588656 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Majors can wrap (the fool is zero) (both for movement and for removal), but minors do not wrap.
< 1274588677 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Majors can count as any suit for movement (but not for removal).
< 1274588710 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have rods and majors mixed together you can move them all at once, but if you have rods and cups together, or rods and cups ad majors together, you cannot move them all together.
< 1274588717 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There. That's all.
< 1274588759 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this good enough?
< 1274588920 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1274589778 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF
< 1274589793 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just heard music that I thought could only be heard in Second Life
< 1274589831 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any music can go anywhere, I suppose
< 1274589866 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the music doesn't come from second life, its waveform will degrade midair.
< 1274589867 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Find me Foxyflwr CUre's "Anyway" on the web, please
< 1274589881 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doubt you'll find it
< 1274589893 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or "Arthur Nix"
< 1274589909 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, mistaken about the latter
< 1274589920 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.last.fm/music/Jupiter+Sunrise/_/Arthur+Nix
< 1274589939 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nix on the arthur
< 1274589941 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I guess the tune I heard might be somewhere on the web
< 1274589999 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If we had the power to trap anything that could hurt a human being inside a jar, send it far from Earth, and watch it explode in the Sun, to the cheers of everyone
< 1274590003 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But alas that can't be done
< 1274590032 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Human being can hurt human being
< 1274590038 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hooray for a dull and uninteresting life?
< 1274590040 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And surely that isn't the good idea anyways
< 1274590052 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For various reasons
< 1274590091 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is surprised no one went for "human beings inside jars?" or something
< 1274590115 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://s12.last.fm/preview/110865117/154/0020389183/11/741308676.mp3
< 1274590137 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the mad scientists in girl genius had that
< 1274590169 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dr. beetle
< 1274590303 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1274590979 0 :weinjared!~weinjared@c-68-84-184-88.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274591262 0 :weinjared!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1274591735 0 :augur!~augur@pool-74-96-4-127.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274592909 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Now soliciting opinions on http://codu.org/music/op13/GRegor-op13-mov1-wipp4.ogg . Op. 13 will probably be in two movements maybe perhaps.
< 1274592951 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: not right now :P
< 1274592958 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well foo to you too!
< 1274592993 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wgetting now.
< 1274593011 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will listen after this episode of Darker Than Black: é»’ă®ĺĄ‘ç´„č€…
< 1274593026 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes, the *actual title of the series* is in two different languages)
< 1274593029 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooooooh
< 1274593033 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darker than Black
< 1274593036 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's pretty darn dark.
< 1274593051 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a fairly dark series, in all honesty.
< 1274593199 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y'know, alt-tab really ought to change tabs instead of windows.
< 1274593206 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, clearly what you want is an alternate tab.
< 1274593227 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly.
< 1274593466 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION listens
< 1274593764 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now it feels like it needs a second movement.
< 1274593808 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: In some Windows programs CTRL+TAB changes tabs instead of windows
< 1274593826 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes. Yes it does. I haven't written it yet :P
< 1274593857 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoo.
< 1274593897 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: not unique to Windows
< 1274594018 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: You might be correct, of course. But I don't know much about others. I do know ALT+TAB is same in Ubuntu because that is what is used at Free Geek, and I sometimes volunteer there
< 1274594042 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is by default... but like almost all things Linux, it is configurable
< 1274594127 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is probably the same so that if you used Windows, you would be able to do some things in same way. ALT+F4 is also same way in Ubuntu.
< 1274594141 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One thing that doesn't work the same however, is double-clicking the control box does not do the same way as Windows
< 1274594172 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But if I use Linux on my own computer, it would be my own distribution anyways and would be different)
< 1274594187 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: are you sure you aren't alise?
< 1274594205 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, Mac OS Xasperating has âŚ-tab switch between PROGRAMS, and âŚ-backtick switch between windows WITHIN a program, which is godawful
< 1274594206 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I think so!
< 1274594209 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1274594222 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I use ctrl-tab to switch between virtual desktops, and ctrl-pg{up,down} to switch tabs.
< 1274594240 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For sure I am not someone else other than who I am
< 1274594260 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, 1 = 1
< 1274594266 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes
< 1274594291 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you think I am alise for some reason?
< 1274594313 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: only because you defined it that way
< 1274594355 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ahem*
< 1274594379 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1274594381 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: "it would be my own distribution anyways"
< 1274594388 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: zzo38 did the write-all-his-software-himself thing first, you know.  alise just seems to have started copying him...
< 1274594395 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1274594401 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I fail then
< 1274594407 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: for example, I think Double x = 1.0 is not equal to Double y = 1.0
< 1274594417 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least thinking a lot about it
< 1274594429 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: what are you talking about?
< 1274594432 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: double x = the literal value 1.0 is equal to double y = the literal value 1.0
< 1274594454 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but with autoboxing you get different refernces
< 1274594474 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: What sort of shitty system are you using that's boxing your numbers and not overloading ==?
< 1274594481 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java :p
< 1274594486 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pfff.
< 1274594486 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java
< 1274594487 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hate*
< 1274594527 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, you agree 1 = 1 only in some cases
< 1274594547 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other example: 1 meter != 1 second
< 1274594560 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In standard mathematics 1 = 1 is always, if using the standard definitions of the numbers and equals
< 1274594594 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well but mathematics is the king of overloading notation
< 1274594596 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right - if you define it that way
< 1274594617 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes it is, but only when it is the way to do so
< 1274594620 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or if they want to fuck with you.
< 1274594686 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although normally you'd try to avoid using notation that breaks something as fundamental as x = x
< 1274594690 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sees bad images in his head
< 1274594820 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: i'd suggest stopping whatever you're doing, then
< 1274594835 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not thinking is hard :p
< 1274594848 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes.  yes it is.
< 1274594852 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the bad bad, or good bad?
< 1274594856 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, bad as in "naughty"?
< 1274594860 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because that's all good times.
< 1274594881 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good bad, I guess
< 1274594919 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: let me guess, pikhq's comment made you apply rule 34 to the number 34.
< 1274594928 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1274594937 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that
< 1274594954 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgo0CDL6bd0
< 1274594973 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is rule 34
< 1274594990 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahaha
< 1274594991 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION runs away
< 1274594996 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it exists, there is porn of it.
< 1274595003 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what IRC porn looks like
< 1274595012 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See #asciipr0n
< 1274595038 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, there is porn of porn.
< 1274595049 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also porn of rule 34.
< 1274595052 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said IRC porn. As in porn involving the protocol itself somehow, and not just porn transmitted via the protocol. Porn OF the protocol
< 1274595060 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I don't watch pornography
< 1274595074 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yet more evidence that you're not human :P
< 1274595075 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, NICK me baby
< 1274595092 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Ooooh, that's hot.
< 1274595093 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Do you mean me?
< 1274595101 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I can't stop the \x01ACTION
< 1274595120 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Very well-known that you aren't human.
< 1274595142 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But rather a species which is equally capable of communicating in English on IRC.
< 1274595172 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: No, I am human. (My D&D character isn't (neither is the paper in the printer), but that's irrelevant.)
< 1274595182 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A conversation I had a while ago: "My temporary apartment has a 30" TV with DVI, so I figured out how to use it as a monitor for my computer!" "Please tell me the first thing you did was watch porn on it." "I would deny it, but your clairvoyance is hilarious."
< 1274595220 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gee using " to mean "inches" in the middle of a quote is really confusing :P
< 1274595266 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'' looks just like "?
< 1274595288 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you supposed to use ''?
< 1274595317 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so; it's "double prime"
< 1274595340 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is "3 double prime" really the same as "3 inches" ...
< 1274595393 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 inches, 3 seconds... I think that's it
< 1274595400 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(according to Wikipedia)
< 1274595407 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, if ASCII didn't have " as a single character, what would C-like languages look like?
< 1274595409 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*brain axplote*
< 1274595419 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Quite similar I imagine.
< 1274595442 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would strings and characters be quoted?
< 1274595456 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they'd just use single quotes for all of them :p
< 1274595463 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably strings would be in '' and characters would have some special notation, maybe $c
< 1274595489 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or they'd use trigraphs *shudder*
< 1274595494 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt they would have quoted characters if not for an abundance of available quotish characters.
< 1274595533 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: double prime means second division, more or less.  (minuta secunda)
< 1274595770 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, I need something to do over the summer
< 1274595775 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ideas?
< 1274595781 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314, job
< 1274595782 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :classes
< 1274595790 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Develop a Scottish accent.
< 1274595791 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :volunteer work
< 1274595803 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :learn a silly walk.
< 1274595840 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :job - don't need one
< 1274595857 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :classes - going to a camp (that only lasts 6 weeks)
< 1274595874 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :accent - no idea of how to get one :p
< 1274595893 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"don't need one" is irrelevant. It gives you something to do
< 1274595899 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why I'm job hunting
< 1274595900 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Develop", not "acquire" :P
< 1274595931 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I don't think I can get a job
< 1274595997 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googles to figure out what oerjan means
< 1274596014 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Monty Python.
< 1274596428 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I already have some funny walks
< 1274596438 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*silly
< 1274596455 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well get a stipend to develop them, then
< 1274596470 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly from http://xkcd.com/245/ and variants
< 1274596657 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what is it with everyone's obsession with money?
< 1274596659 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the factorial of the factorial of one half?
< 1274596679 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: look up gamma function
< 1274596713 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION asks wolfram|alpha
< 1274596726 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.9571218...
< 1274596744 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With money you can buy happiness, no matter what all those la-dee-da imbeciles may think to the contrary.
< 1274596755 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know gamma function I saw in Wikipedia
< 1274596768 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I found the article for "Factorial"
< 1274596776 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it didn't tell me the answer
< 1274596780 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION recalls a relevant mafalda cartoon
< 1274596793 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I am unsure how to calculate that equation
< 1274596810 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i don't know how to easily calculate it, it requires integration or something...
< 1274596834 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it isn't afaik built into haskell, which is my default calculator these days
< 1274596835 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is integration and that is why I don't know how to calcualte it
< 1274596852 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: numerically, i presume
< 1274596886 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: ask wolfram|alpha, like I said: 0.9571218476267359902553835494511485301623742526696566054995...
< 1274596889 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or there may be a faster algorithm than going via the integral for all i know
< 1274596984 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know the exact value (according to symbols such as square root, pi, e, etc)?
< 1274597004 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no; it's not an elementary function AFAIK
< 1274597033 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it says it is sqrt(pi)/2 for (0.5)! on Wikipedia
< 1274597084 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: there _might_ be an exact formula for (0.5)!, but that only generalizes to numbers of the form n + 1/2
< 1274597120 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sqrt(pi)/2 itself is transcendental, so taking the factorial of _that_ is unlikely to be nice
< 1274597162 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried using nInt command on TI-92, but it is slow. It does give a answer which is close to the correct one, but only in approximate form (and even the decimal places it does give is slightly wrong)
< 1274597166 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Even for integers)
< 1274597214 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: there almost certainly isn't a much simpler general formula than the usual integral, or else it would have been listed
< 1274597260 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes
< 1274597320 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274597456 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, time for a delicious pastrami reuben!
< 1274597477 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God dammit that sentence is making me hungry.
< 1274597549 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read Road to Reality, it is clear how to do things like e^(d/dx) and how to put a matrix in the exponent, and so on
< 1274597591 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: On dark rye bread, hot
< 1274597645 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's been a while since I've had a reuben... sauerkraut + meat + bread, right?
< 1274597658 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically.
< 1274597673 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus Russian/thousand island dressing and swiss cheese (but not for me)
< 1274597696 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And not just any meat and bread.
< 1274597727 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The meat has to be cured beef, e.g. pastrami or corned beef.
< 1274597731 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The bread has to be rye.
< 1274597746 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No other combination is a true reuben :)
< 1274597793 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite true.
< 1274597815 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is it that describing food makes me want to eat it? :p
< 1274597835 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY IS IT THAT EATING THIS DELICIOUS REUBEN MAKES ME WANT TO EAT IT?!?!?!
< 1274597879 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, like... you read a menu, you want to order something
< 1274597939 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you pass a restaurant, your stomach growls
< 1274597942 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, I am eating this Reuben with a Sangria (sin alcohol), which is a surprisingly good combination.
< 1274598080 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night
< 1274598387 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1274598563 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: reset
< 1274598905 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION randomlu looks up some ip addresses
< 1274599203 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION listens to the crickets chirp
< 1274599902 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Do you like(etc) Spider Tarot?
< 1274600571 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274600588 0 :uorygl!~Warrigal@rrcs-70-63-156-144.midsouth.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274601599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1274601600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274601918 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Bye
< 1274602659 0 :cal153!~cal@c-24-4-207-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274602742 0 :iamcal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1274602765 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: listening
< 1274602933 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: the stuff around 1:55 needs some reworking
< 1274603006 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the rest like it. the first thing i would do is ditch the secondary high notes that come in at like 2:00 with the 6 note downward sequence
< 1274603043 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just sounds weird..
< 1274603077 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :secondly, change the high notes to something lower, i think, or something much higher. it sounds a bit honky tonky ish right now
< 1274603110 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, no, just fuck around with that 6 note downward sequences really
< 1274603117 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything in that area is weird
< 1274603201 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this song has quite an overtone of eh... how should i put it
< 1274603205 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :insanity?
< 1274603211 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theres lots of tonal discord
< 1274603473 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that much is half the point.
< 1274603539 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, i like that mood. but i dont think it's as obvious as it should be, and i dont think the points i mentioned aid it
< 1274603545 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather, i think they detract from it
< 1274604020 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION kisses his anti-virus
< 1274604121 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~chatzilla@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274605081 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274606822 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274607598 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274609025 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274609042 0 :uorygl!~Warrigal@rrcs-70-63-156-144.midsouth.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274609865 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274610212 0 :tombom!~tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274611084 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274612076 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-15-45.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274612645 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1274613119 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274613376 0 :hiato!~fdulu@41-135-6-154.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274615439 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ilua
< 1274615446 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@150.140.227.55 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274615627 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274616108 0 :alise!~alise@91.105.70.71 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274617658 0 :marchdown!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: marchdown
< 1274617995 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274618449 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I made implement Spider Tarot on PySol:  http://sprunge.us/eKaJ
< 1274618514 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have PySol you can load this file
< 1274618547 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"As of 2004 any work on PySol has stopped, and PySol is officially discontinued."
< 1274618574 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or do you mean http://pysolfc.sourceforge.net/?
< 1274618575 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is PySol FanClub
< 1274618581 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is what I mean
< 1274618684 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too hot! Hoooly shit I cannot stand this weather
< 1274618686 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bring back the rain
< 1274618693 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1274618698 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently it's 23 degrees, bullshit, it's 25
< 1274618711 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: please tell me it's hot where you are too
< 1274618717 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise i'll be uncontrollably jealous
< 1274618734 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'(
< 1274618748 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm in Britain... you're MEANT to expect cold here
< 1274618756 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does it defy my expectations?! Why?
< 1274618761 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is dark where I am
< 1274618782 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I don't know why?
< 1274618805 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's probably that evil weather.
< 1274618846 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think the weather will be evil?
< 1274618907 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can anthropomorphise it if I want, can't I?
< 1274618927 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can if you want to
< 1274618932 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I shall
< 1274618962 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you should remember what someone said (about something else): "Don't anthropomorphize computers, they don't like it."
< 1274619020 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha
< 1274619030 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think the weather is a computer :P
< 1274619048 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~chatzilla@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274619048 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course you are right. The quote is about something else like it says
< 1274619059 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is like a joke
< 1274619126 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't *think* the weather is a computer.
< 1274619142 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what they want you to think.
< 1274619215 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!~chatzilla@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274619250 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: It's not like a joke, it is a joke.
< 1274619254 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless it's only a pseudo-joke :P
< 1274619267 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> I don't think the weather is a computer :P <-- also a ojke
< 1274619268 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*joke
< 1274619378 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww, Martin Gardner died.
< 1274619392 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh!
< 1274619396 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No! That's so sad.
< 1274619418 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1274619421 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Phantom_Hoover
< 1274619433 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What a shame.
< 1274619573 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He was 90something, though.
< 1274619584 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, true.
< 1274619590 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He hasn't really done anything for decades, has he?
< 1274619683 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other than write some book, I think.
< 1274619684 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, http://twitter.com/thewub/status/14549831262
< 1274619687 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not recently
< 1274619723 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Ha
< 1274619731 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When Conway dies:
< 1274619751 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Okay, here's the deal. Name a game. We'll play. You win, you go to heaven. You lose, hell."
< 1274619756 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Game of Life."
< 1274619764 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Death looks it up]
< 1274619771 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"HOW THE FUCK DO YOU WIN THIS THING???"
< 1274619778 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's not even a game!"
< 1274619789 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you can't lose either
< 1274619789 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It has game in the name! How could it be more game-y?"
< 1274619795 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You never said it had to be a 2-player game."
< 1274619802 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By letting you actually play it!
< 1274619809 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a 0-player game.
< 1274619822 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm totally going for CoreWars.)
< 1274619856 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My question is: Can you just invent a game on the spot? What are the requirements for a game?
< 1274619923 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There should at least be well-defined victory conditions.
< 1274619942 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/5lFTN.jpg awwwwwwwwwwwww <3 nintendo.
< 1274619956 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Victory conditions: "Whoever isn't Death wins."
< 1274619956 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have once asked: If you have to play game against Death to survive, which one: Chess, Poker, Mahjong?
< 1274619979 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Poker. I'm shitty at the other two games, so my best chance is to rely on luck.
< 1274620001 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I could challenge him to a game of my choice, I think it'd be nomic.
< 1274620010 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be very interesting.
< 1274620011 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here is another victory conditions: "Play any card. After one turn, the game is over. If you haven't played all the cards yet, the game is a draw and you have to start over again."
< 1274620035 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274620099 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You play with a deck of 52 cards (or 40 if you are Italian or Spanish), and after one card is played, that is one turn)
< 1274620113 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GAME RULES: The game must be played by a human, on Earth, in physical form, with a young body and a sharp mind, and Death, in his realm. The game ends whenever the player who is not Death writes a letter to Death at "Death / Hades" and pleads for him to make the game end; Death then wins. Death must not otherwise interact with the other player.
< 1274620276 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lair.fifthhorseman.net/~dkg/fonts/dkg-handwriting/jabberwocky.pdf ;; this is the first decent handwriting font i've seen.
< 1274620375 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do you not need to handwrite?
< 1274620425 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Need to lunch.
< 1274620674 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Why do I not need to handwrite what?
< 1274620723 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, /me is trying a new organisational system for ~/ since the old one didn't work.
< 1274621075 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~/downloads -- temporary downloads that I'm not going to futz with (things like little C programs I download do /not/ go here); should be emptied regularly
< 1274621101 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~/research/YYYY-MM/ -- all sorts of crap I get from other people; source trees I want to compile, data files I want to play with, little C programs, etc.
< 1274621119 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~/work/YYYY-MM/[project/] -- stuff i make.
< 1274621131 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The old system was just ~/Downloads and ~/code basically.
< 1274621194 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, someone claimed that "grammer" was American English, while "grammar" was British English.
< 1274621208 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where?
< 1274621257 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/c750w/11_year_old_girl_writes_to_nintendo_as_part_of_a/c0qkq8q?context=1
< 1274621275 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the new Ubuntu release
< 1274621309 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was evil.
< 1274621385 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I say that?
< 1274621394 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1274621395 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It probably did something baaaaaaaaad. But it's not doing anything baaaaaaaaad right now.
< 1274621399 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Oh.
< 1274621403 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well you're wrong then.
< 1274621408 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you mean that other person
< 1274621411 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who said it was evil
< 1274621416 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, they are wrong. They just have an extreme aversion to purple clearly
< 1274621552 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know what it did wrong (I had experience with it at Free Geek): The default is nc -q 0
< 1274621601 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274621727 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: What's wrong with -q 0?
< 1274621737 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :     -q      after EOF on stdin, wait the specified number of seconds and then
< 1274621738 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :             quit. If seconds is negative, wait forever.
< 1274621738 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah
< 1274621742 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what's wrong with that?
< 1274621746 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no EOF in network protocols
< 1274621748 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it wouldn't have any other use
< 1274621775 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be the default -q -1
< 1274621792 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A few people has filed this as a bug report
< 1274621802 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it is easy to fix any script that uses it
< 1274621823 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why -q 1?
< 1274621831 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://chrome.google.com/extensions/img/mikdfeaeaecoffpjoodiihgejnbfigln/1274222031.11/screenshot_big/1001?hl=en-us ;; Huh, you can make Chrome look native on Linux now
< 1274621849 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274621859 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's always been possible.
< 1274621878 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least since 9.10.
< 1274621937 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because -q -1 is negative it wait forever, which is the function in olderversions as well as in other distributions
< 1274621969 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: But WHY should it be like that?
< 1274621973 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yeah, but it looked ugly :)
< 1274622013 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, this one is a proper theme and evrything.
< 1274622015 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*everything
< 1274622061 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, Chromium doesn't haev the window border.
< 1274622107 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@150.140.227.55 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274622114 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I need Chrome instead.
< 1274622168 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I think default should be wait forever because sometimes the protocol is not finished yet!
< 1274622186 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Ah, you mean like if ^D is used in the protocol?
< 1274622202 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you should use ^D in the protocol for the same reason you shouldn't use ^C: it's taken for metapurposes!
< 1274622237 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: That's one purpose. But the other purpose is things like:   echo aboutgophserv | nc zzo38computer.cjb.net 70
< 1274622277 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Good point. Okay, then, I agree with you.
< 1274622334 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, there, now the window shadow is back.
< 1274622379 0 :AnMaster!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274622384 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why was it gone?
< 1274622413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, now I have znc up and running on my desktop
< 1274622414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay
< 1274622463 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Using the non-native title bar.
< 1274622560 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/LWc8g.png ;; here's what it looks like now
< 1274622702 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274622757 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahh Chrome is a nice browser; think I'll use it.
< 1274622838 0 :ws!wswieb@akson.sgh.waw.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274622898 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ws
< 1274622902 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you whitespace?
< 1274623353 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- The following will find the recursive form definition of the fibonacci function from its closed-form solution.
< 1274623354 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :init075 -- The problem is tough, so you should be prepared to resort whatever measure you can take!
< 1274623354 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :printAny (Ąf -> all (Ąn -> (f :: Int->Int) n == let phi = (1 + sqrt 5)/2 in round ((phi^n - (1-phi)^n) / sqrt 5) ) [0..9])
< 1274623357 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MagicHaskeller: http://nautilus.cs.miyazaki-u.ac.jp/~skata/MagicHaskeller.html
< 1274623361 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It fucking writes progams for you!
< 1274623374 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274623375 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT TURNS THE BINET FORMULA INTO THE RECURSIVE FIBONACCI DEFINITION.
< 1274623376 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF
< 1274623827 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274623853 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~chatzilla@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274624543 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't et it to compile :(
< 1274624867 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://vpri.org/pov/
< 1274624874 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO! Out of stock!
< 1274624877 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Want! Fucking want now!
< 1274624887 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sadness... overwhelming...
< 1274624896 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1274624947 0 :ws!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :R.I.P. Martin Gardner :-(
< 1274624953 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ws: yeah
< 1274624955 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sad.
< 1274625264 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :p   yiff-server                     - Y Sound Server
< 1274625280 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup... just your average, every day yiff server.
< 1274625799 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[["Child pornography is great," the speaker at the podium declared enthusiastically. "It is great because politicians understand child pornography. By playing that card, we can get them to act, and start blocking sites. And once they have done that, we can get them to start blocking file sharing sites".]]
< 1274626862 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, I got quoted twice in one Haskell Weekly News in 2009.
< 1274626863 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: 2009: The Year of the Combinatorial Explosion of Haskell Web Frameworks. Also, the Linux Desktop.
< 1274626864 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: [on the previous quote] Someone re-remember that quote when lambdabot's back so I don't have to and thereby look egotistical, thanks
< 1274626866 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ego++
< 1274627814 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274627852 0 :ws!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ...
< 1274627925 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274628217 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gives DDG a go.
< 1274628288 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274628667 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION invents yet another wiki format because he can.
< 1274628669 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I has the powah
< 1274629065 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vejn.
< 1274629176 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Njev?
< 1274629287 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Ya what now :|
< 1274629366 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something or othere.
< 1274629376 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, your mother.
< 1274629529 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is 9:45. Why am I up this early?
< 1274629533 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I went to bed at 3.
< 1274629560 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1274629579 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :insufficient time dilation.  try running faster.
< 1274629978 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: who knows.
< 1274630031 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Eek, a black hole!
< 1274630817 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: underflow
< 1274631001 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why nobody's invented this particular blend of formatting language before.
< 1274631353 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274632399 0 :Portponky!~no@cpc2-sgyl23-0-0-cust656.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274632817 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274632874 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1274632899 0 :Portponky!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1274632972 0 :alise!~alise@91.105.70.71 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274633768 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274634060 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1274634184 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just realised I ran out of programming languages to use
< 1274634184 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shit
< 1274634263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote <oerjan> insufficient time dilation.  try running faster.
< 1274634267 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :162|<oerjan> insufficient time dilation.  try running faster.
< 1274634381 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :m4?
< 1274634459 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Assembly?
< 1274634620 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No :P
< 1274634672 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, for what?
< 1274634833 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything.
< 1274634838 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything.
< 1274634913 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1274634958 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: ATS?
< 1274634968 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :APL?
< 1274634977 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/APL/J/
< 1274634990 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, ATS!
< 1274634992 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That language is fun.
< 1274634992 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A+? (Which is GPLed)
< 1274634999 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Hey now, nothing wrong with APL -- I do like J though
< 1274635019 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :J *is* APL :p
< 1274635023 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it cost MONEY.
< 1274635101 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1274635103 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just not open source.
< 1274635109 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a wonderful language, though.
< 1274635123 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Well, it's the Unofficial Sequel.
< 1274635139 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From some of the members of the production team who brought you "APL"...
< 1274635166 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cannot believe I've stopped using Google.
< 1274635188 0 :MigoMipo_!~John@84-217-15-45.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274635196 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Wait, no, J was the same guy as APL.
< 1274635207 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mixed up J and K's histories there, I think. Except I knew K was unofficial.
< 1274635213 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I mixed up J and A+ or something.
< 1274635267 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274635270 0 :MigoMipo__!~John@84-217-15-45.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274635431 0 :MigoMipo__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MigoMipo
< 1274635462 0 :MigoMipo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1274635624 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the way, using Parsec for something that's meant to accept any and all input is not wise.
< 1274635628 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does not like forgivingness.
< 1274635716 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1274635835 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it just does error messages.
< 1274635890 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not even trying to parse something insanely difficult.
< 1274635896 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1274635949 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tag := '{' name [spaces node+] '}'; name := !(spaces | '{' | '}') text := anything; node := tag | text
< 1274635961 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If a tag doesn't match -- e.g. {} -- then it falls through to the everything-accepting text.
< 1274635962 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-140-214.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274635970 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Challenge: Parse this without the code looking like an ugly piece of shit.
< 1274635998 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-15-45.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274636146 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Think I should just write a custom parser?
< 1274636326 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using haskell for anything is not wise
< 1274636370 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: Bullshit.
< 1274636382 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: Actually I've tried the same thing in other languages and so far the code is more verbose.
< 1274636383 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yeah; that's not exactly playing to Parsec's strengths there.
< 1274636395 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use C.
< 1274636396 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::))))))
< 1274636402 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: No. :)^n
< 1274636589 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Or use SML. :D
< 1274636604 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: OTOH, this parser is a bitch to write by hand because of all the little fiddly fallthroughs.
< 1274636605 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh.
< 1274636610 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: "Meh".
< 1274636618 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey you should love SML
< 1274636621 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do!
< 1274636628 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good! :)))
< 1274636629 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just don't think it's particularly suited to this problem any more than Haskell.
< 1274636638 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone who likes SML but not Haskell is a bit silly. Maybe you dislike the Haskell hype, community or libraries... but the actual language is fairly benign.
< 1274636643 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree that most Haskellers don't know what they're doing.
< 1274636651 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's a flawed language.
< 1274636654 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: That is mostly true.
< 1274636681 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deep deep down a lot of Haskell I don't have a problem with, strictly as a language. Of course it has its quirks and flaws but so does every language.
< 1274636695 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(except the one I'm designing)
< 1274636703 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of course)
< 1274636723 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haha, don't be silly. My languages are the flawless ones.
< 1274636736 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Your languages aren't even computable!!
< 1274636749 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT MAY BE TRUE :P
< 1274636753 0 :ws!wswieb@akson.sgh.waw.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274636754 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: Hey now some of them are
< 1274636756 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOME of them!
< 1274637030 0 :Gregor-L!~Gregor@75-151-73-57-Spokane.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274637050 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Pretty sure I could do this better; this whole snippet /just/ parses a tag name: http://pastie.org/973478.txt?key=qybxeu7xoift2bcwzlqhya :P
< 1274637088 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the tag parser itself is going to have to handle finding 3 metric fucktons of text and then realising it's unbalanced and so shooting it off as text
< 1274637102 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe "{foo abc" should parse as the tag {foo abc} instead of the text "{foo abc".
< 1274637120 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, you could have ridiculous things like the whole thing being snarfed up into a table like that.
< 1274637147 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 metric fucktons
< 1274637159 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@150.140.227.55 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274637177 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; it's slightly less than 3 regular fucktons.
< 1274637689 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1274637827 0 :hiato!~fdulu@41-135-6-154.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274637907 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gawd, you really wouldn't think...parsing...would be so hard.
< 1274638107 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274638129 0 :MigoMipo_!~John@84-217-15-45.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274638286 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Library idea: You feed it a parser description, and it outputs a parser that "patches things up" so that it accepts any input at all.
< 1274638292 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With customisable parameters for how it should handle certain invalid texts.
< 1274638462 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<augur> and the rest like it. the first thing i would do is ditch the secondary high notes that come in at like 2:00 with the 6 note downward sequence // hahah, well this is definitely not happening :P
< 1274638958 0 :MigoMipo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274639261 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lmddgtfy.com/?q=printf
< 1274640811 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Toasted marshmallows are the nicest thing ever.
< 1274640826 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: do you just use your reddit account  for promoting the iphone over android :P
< 1274640932 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: did you know that on OS X, both Flash and the HTML5 player are glacial for 720p, but QuickTime plays it fine; but hopefully the new API for H.264 decoding will be supported soon by one of them, unless Google decides to forcibly serve WebM?
< 1274640939 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just wondering :(
< 1274640962 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: that... your sentence doesn't even parse
< 1274640991 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: Could you sound any more like a valley girl?
< 1274641014 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, all I want is to watch a damn video
< 1274641047 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And h264 is terrible for that while software patents exist.
< 1274641060 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though, while software patents exist *it is effectively illegal to program*.
< 1274641078 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: I suggest using Linux -- then you're not surprised by breakage.
< 1274641125 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274641160 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: well
< 1274641166 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even Linux has that nvidia H264 acceleration thingy
< 1274641167 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vdpau
< 1274641180 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but we generally don't install things, the smart of us anyway
< 1274641190 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is okay, we can deal with this, we don't feel like we need to break things right now...
< 1274641197 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is just fine, we don't need to watch online videos anyway.
< 1274641198 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it is used illegally most of the time.
< 1274641198 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274641236 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Flash has the only legal h264 decoder for Linux.
< 1274641252 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. Legal as far as we know.
< 1274641256 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, isn't H.264 officially free for web video?
< 1274641263 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that i know of.
< 1274641271 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and creating it by anyone without a license will become illegal Real Soon Now
< 1274641274 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, have fun with that.
< 1274641277 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You do not currently have to pay a license fee for streaming.
< 1274641285 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's for at least 5 years
< 1274641299 0 :MigoMipo_!~John@84-217-15-45.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274641302 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Decoding requires a license. Encoding for *most* purposes requires a license.
< 1274641314 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(basically anything but home video creation)
< 1274641324 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :home video creation will become illegal without a license soon iirc
< 1274641327 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something or other expires.
< 1274641341 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: They extended the *promise not to sue*.
< 1274641342 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"On February 2, 2010 MPEG LA announced that H.264-encoded Internet Video that is free to end users would continue to be exempt from royalty fees until at least December 31, 2015.[11] However, other fees remain in place. The license terms are updated in 5-year blocks.[12]"
< 1274641350 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway
< 1274641352 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't matter!
< 1274641371 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: All of this only applies to the patents in the MPEG LA patent pool.
< 1274641379 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is always possible for there to be a patent outside of it.
< 1274641387 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, then you can sue the world
< 1274641392 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because by 2015 (really, by 2011 most likely) there will be more widespread support for VP8, hopefully
< 1274641401 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though the x264 guy says VP8 sucks
< 1274641426 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then apple will support it in another 10 years
< 1274641427 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VP8 almost certainly violates patents. There do not exist nontrivial programs that don't, at this rate.
< 1274641434 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's fucking patents on linked lists.
< 1274641439 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linked. Lists.
< 1274641469 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lists that have multiple links in order to be traversed in multiple ways
< 1274641478 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, that patent is probably invalid and wouldn't stand up in court
< 1274641519 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Big deal. US court system means that a party without a lot of money loses by default.
< 1274641545 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dark shikari is cool
< 1274641552 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't think he cares about the legal implications of ... anything...
< 1274641557 0 :MigoMipo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1274641686 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274641720 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I believe he lives in a country where he doesn't have to
< 1274641731 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"believe"? :-)
< 1274641761 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: As x264 does not do binary releases, they barely get around US patent laws.
< 1274641766 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Barely*.
< 1274641793 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it's not compiled, they've not actually implemented the patent, merely written a description of the patent.
< 1274641795 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My point is that using x264 is only practical for those doing illegal things anyway -- like making encodings of TV shows.
< 1274641801 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :US patent law is fucking retarded.
< 1274641805 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@bas5-toronto47-2925110102.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274641824 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: What if they shipped it with a compiler binary and a program that would run the compiler on any source files in its vicinity?
< 1274641837 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compiler: legal, obviously; program that runs a compiler no matter where it is: legal, obviously; description: legal.
< 1274641840 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sum: legal?
< 1274641850 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Whether or not you would win that case is a function of how much money you have to blow.
< 1274641864 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274641875 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, seriously.
< 1274641878 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it technically legal, though?
< 1274641888 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*I don't know*.
< 1274641892 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No component is illegal -- does the whole thing constitute an implementation? Nobody says you have to run the compiler script.
< 1274641893 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: lol :P
< 1274641938 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It may be perfectly clear. It may be an implementation. The script *itself* might violate a patent on automating compilation of a program.
< 1274641972 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is, in short, impossible to know if any program is legal.
< 1274643026 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-15-45.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274643052 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, one could argue that the binary file is a bunch of perfectly legal bits stuck together.
< 1274643211 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: underflow
< 1274643236 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 is illegal but 0 is okay
< 1274643549 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274643550 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BLARGH SOFTWARE SUCKS
< 1274643569 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything sucks.
< 1274644047 0 :Rugxulo!~user@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274644066 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aieee.
< 1274644069 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pinged.
< 1274644074 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You'd know har har
< 1274644076 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahem
< 1274644078 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stay classy, alise
< 1274644101 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274644113 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: two links for you
< 1274644116 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.forthfreak.net/index.cgi?QBFORTH
< 1274644129 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.staticramlinux.com/
< 1274644146 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :H.264 is a suckfest.
< 1274644150 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And not the good kind.
< 1274644156 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-L: Legally, yes; but technically?
< 1274644159 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's certainly superior to Theora.
< 1274644164 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Technically it's friggin' amazing.
< 1274644170 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah.
< 1274644170 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, here's another:   http://sta.li/
< 1274644177 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: I know of sta.li; I'm a fan of the suckless guys.
< 1274644183 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, haven't heard of WebM yet?
< 1274644190 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sta.li/n
< 1274644191 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I thought so, just making sure
< 1274644198 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Mm.
< 1274644200 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-L: We need to assrape the H.264 owners until they decide to open it up :P
< 1274644211 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't WebM based on VP8-- yep
< 1274644214 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sucks
< 1274644222 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VP8 + Matroska + Theora
< 1274644228 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> Gregor-L: We need to assrape the H.264 owners until they decide to open it up :P // I like this no matter WHAT context you interpret it in!
< 1274644231 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops, Vorbis
< 1274644233 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sorry)
< 1274644248 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-L: We did not need to know that ... but when will the fanfiction be done?
< 1274644273 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Hey, that QBFORTH was written by our very own zzo38!
< 1274644284 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Link to his journal is broken though.
< 1274644288 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION applauds
< 1274644309 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-L: What, exactly, are you apploading :P
< 1274644313 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*applauding?
< 1274644340 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 :P
< 1274644352 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: argh! that link worked for me
< 1274644355 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other day, I mean
< 1274644365 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he even compiled it, too (QB4.5)
< 1274644374 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-L: Does zzo38 just generate an applaudy reaction in you?
< 1274644377 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funny curiosity, even if I don't really know Forth   ;-)
< 1274644383 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: No, just the way you said it :P
< 1274644393 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like he was about to come out on stage and take a bow.
< 1274644411 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He seems to have deleted or at least elided the entry from his journal.
< 1274644417 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either that or the file disappeared.
< 1274644435 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-L: By our very own.... ZEEED ZED OHHH (thirtyeight)!
< 1274644435 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION having internet woes
< 1274644442 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/music
< 1274644447 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EXACTLY
< 1274644478 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rapidshare.com/files/390783825/qbforth.zip.html
< 1274644478 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MD5: 9BAE75C6AB6AF45949BE9262350A36EE
< 1274644483 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there  :-P
< 1274644483 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Gregor
< 1274644510 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, there's a Perl Forth, a Bash Forth, so it's not that odd   ;-)
< 1274644589 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the tradition of promoting redditor-run sites that try to do the same thing as existing sites but that don't suck: http://filevo.com/
< 1274644621 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, Forthfreak wiki lets you upload, interesting
< 1274644801 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, my wifi connection keeps flaking out
< 1274644840 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webm
< 1274644897 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only issue is that VP8 sucks balls... and is also patented
< 1274644908 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just that the H.264 guys are more open about their patents :P
< 1274644922 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Only in comparison to H.264.
< 1274644934 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is the best video compression format in existence...
< 1274644940 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apart from the lossless ones!
< 1274644949 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best lossy one.
< 1274644952 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Theora and WebM can't both be patented, how can MPEG-LA have a patent on every video format ever to exist??
< 1274644966 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274644975 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: MPEG-LA probably doesn't have all the patents that apply to H.264.
< 1274644977 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: It's not just MPEG-LA.
< 1274644985 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the patents on VP8 are well-known iirc
< 1274644989 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just the ones that are being claimed to apply to H.264 in public.
< 1274645009 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants to force everyone to go back to VIC-20 times, suffer with only 3.5k of RAM, then when they get tired of that, to decide whether they want to play fairly or not
< 1274645014 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: No, the only ones confirmed are ones that Google has granted a royalty-free license for.
< 1274645038 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though MPEG-LA *is* busy going "What a lovely codec you have there. Wouldn't it be a shame if something were to... Happen to it?"
< 1274645074 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's crazy, we live in a Linux world with lots of openness ... and yet other people are still crazy as loons
< 1274645076 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read that in Snape's voice -- theory -- MPEG-LA is Snape.
< 1274645083 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Harry Potter is a metaphor for video encoding, and software patents.
< 1274645089 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have they learned nothing? (apparently)
< 1274645089 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Should've been a mobster voice.
< 1274645093 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how Voldemort is.
< 1274645120 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of Linux, Ubuntu 10.04 is nice!
< 1274645147 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :patents are worse than just being proprietary!
< 1274645147 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's one thing to not share, it's another to prevent completely independent works to exist
< 1274645147 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :audio works okay?
< 1274645167 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't tried it, heard some stuff is better but some regressions still exist
< 1274645212 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think audio should work fine but I don't hae speakers in
< 1274645217 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It registers volume and everything
< 1274645227 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are still many PulseAudio haters
< 1274645229 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The new themes finally make the thing look half-decent which is nice
< 1274645235 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: yeah you can just uninstall it if you don't like it
< 1274645235 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works fine for me.
< 1274645237 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i really don't care
< 1274645239 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Audio, that is.
< 1274645246 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing i do hate is that flash video/audio is desynched
< 1274645256 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this may be pulseaudio, or the fact that the plugin is 32-bit and my install is 64-bit
< 1274645256 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure
< 1274645258 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's annoying though
< 1274645262 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pulseaudio is quite high latency iirc so...
< 1274645386 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :startup speed is better, no?
< 1274645416 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much better to login screen -- there is a quite large lag of nothing happening between logging in to desktop, but that constitutes the entire log in time, so maybe it is just delaying showing it
< 1274645419 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this machine is old and futzy anyway
< 1274645423 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i wouldn't rely on its experiences
< 1274645537 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-15-66.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274646396 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1274646413 0 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274646570 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bleugh, broken links.
< 1274646591 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1274646745 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1274646820 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Roken blinks.
< 1274646998 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Jim Davis has stated that he created Garfield with the sole intention of making money. He decided to create a strip that would be popular with the masses, in order to be commercially successful."
< 1274647009 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well done.
< 1274647040 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah.
< 1274647054 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why not?
< 1274647067 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: he's single-handedly lowered the quality of comics!
< 1274647091 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you ever *read* Garfield?
< 1274647108 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's pretty amazingly poor.
< 1274647111 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, hi ais523!
< 1274647119 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't go appearing like that without me knowing!
< 1274647119 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, haven't seen you for ages
< 1274647124 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably due to missing each other
< 1274647128 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, you haven't joined in...
< 1274647131 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How long have you been here? :P
< 1274647136 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, there.
< 1274647141 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: any news?
< 1274647152 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surprisingly little
< 1274647157 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been to Canada and back
< 1274647177 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then spent a week alternately asleep and preparing for the PokĂ©mon World Championship qualifiers
< 1274647182 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they're in Birmingham this year
< 1274647194 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, I mean, how hard can it be?
< 1274647233 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Card game or video game?
< 1274647239 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :video game
< 1274647247 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're going to get schooled.
< 1274647259 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: heh, I was 6th in the world on the online practice simulator for a while
< 1274647271 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tournament Pokemon players take the game to fairly absurd heights.
< 1274647275 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know
< 1274647288 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I just had to come up with something even more absurd
< 1274647309 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such as spending hundreds of hours to maximise the stats on your team?
< 1274647316 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hundreds?
< 1274647323 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's taken me about 5 so far
< 1274647326 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with only one member to go
< 1274647334 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You've not maximised the stats.
< 1274647336 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hint: the PokĂ©mon RNG has been broken for a couple of years)
< 1274647340 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I have
< 1274647349 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it was broken? Okay, that changes things.
< 1274647365 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a pain trying to get the timings /just right/
< 1274647377 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you keep trying, you can hit a 1/60 second interval after about an hour of trying
< 1274647378 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You've got *a good chance* of getting schooled, then.
< 1274647422 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Keep in mind, you're playing against the kind of guys who come up with ways to have omnipotence in D&D.
< 1274647441 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I know at least 3 of said guys
< 1274647458 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and at least 2 of said methods, although not in detail
< 1274647458 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you have a clue what you're getting into, then.
< 1274647462 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1274647464 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do
< 1274647469 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just I like to act like a noob because it's funny
< 1274647483 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which leaves me with one last piece of advice, then.
< 1274647489 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good luck.
< 1274647490 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1274647500 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks
< 1274647541 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(did you know that the second turn of drowning in D&D sets your hitpoints to 0? it's the only known way to recover from minus arbitrarily large HP in the turn you have before dying, and part of one of the omnipotence combos)
< 1274647607 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1274647695 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume this omnipotence is a closely guarded secret.
< 1274647705 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really
< 1274647732 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must just suck at Google, then.
< 1274647737 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It's called Pun-Pun.
< 1274647739 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other method I know involves a kobold build that can transform into a kobold with slightly better stats, which can transform into a kobold with slightly better stats...
< 1274647741 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's Pun-Pun
< 1274647754 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for some reason it only works with kobolds, although I can't remember why
< 1274647794 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You get an ability that works on "scaly ones" that lets you modify yourself.
< 1274647805 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes
< 1274647816 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works on any vaguely reptilian race, kobolds are just the easiest such race to use.
< 1274647852 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pimg
< 1274647862 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274647895 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, IIRC, that was a bucket of water, a spell that lets you prevent yourself from dying from damage for a couple of turns, an *infinite damage loop*, and some spell that gave you extra stuff for the amount of damage you got.
< 1274647924 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and a way to make the temporary bonuses permanent.
< 1274647944 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274647971 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's yet another way of doing it. Polymorph. Awaken. Restoration. Repeat.
< 1274647990 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D&D is so broken it's not even funny.
< 1274648012 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My nerd war sense is tingling.
< 1274648017 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strangely, nobody's managed to break PokĂ©mon yet
< 1274648022 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's not for lack of trying
< 1274648032 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which one?
< 1274648041 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No nerd war. Just nerding.
< 1274648045 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D&D can be broken in this way, but there are different players some player prefer a different way
< 1274648053 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a very well-known fact that D&D is incredibly not-balanced.
< 1274648056 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And anyways, any rule can be override if there is too much wrong
< 1274648067 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume that the wide variety of stuff would make Pokemon resilient to breakage.
< 1274648071 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is certainly correct that D&D is not balanced, however.
< 1274648094 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: you'd expect a wide variety to make things more easily broken, in fact
< 1274648102 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Semi-gestalter class hopefully makes it a bit more balanced however
< 1274648105 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance Wobbuffet turned out to be unexpectedly broken in singles
< 1274648105 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But a paper-and-pen RPG doesn't need to be balanced, it just needs to have enough structure to let players have fun.
< 1274648126 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the championships are doubles, so you can't exploit it
< 1274648127 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And not stop them *from* having fun.
< 1274648132 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, basically. Although balanced can helps a bit
< 1274648179 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Icosahedral RPG should be more balanced however in some ways, due to some of the difficulties involved in casting spells and so on.
< 1274648209 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have heard of ways to do aleph-one damage in one turn
< 1274648227 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As well as ways to permanently transform your character into a sandwich
< 1274648259 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second is possible even in D&D, isn't it?
< 1274648274 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just stack a bunch of 	polymorph any object	 spells
< 1274648276 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both of these things refer to D&D
< 1274648278 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does one deal aleph-one damage in one turn?
< 1274648287 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1274648288 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who the hell wrote that into the rules?
< 1274648337 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it probably wasn't deliberate
< 1274648341 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rules are rather self-contradictory anyway
< 1274648347 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in places, at least
< 1274648354 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does it work?
< 1274648362 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: RPG system writers manage to do some really, really funny things by accident.
< 1274648390 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even Icosahedral RPG rules has one deliberately contradictory rule, however, which is called the Fundamental Rule:  All rules have exceptions, including this one.
< 1274648391 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linky?
< 1274648419 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, in D&D there exists the Peasant Railgun. You can have a line of people with readied actions to hand an object in front of them. Readied actions, when triggered, happen immediately.
< 1274648440 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus, with a line of people long enough, you can send any object any distance in 3 seconds.
< 1274648449 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that being the granularity of D&D)
< 1274648450 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Of course, that is a rule you have to override in that circumstance because it is obviously wrong in that case.
< 1274648454 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: how many friends do you share with me?
< 1274648464 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've heard exactly the same stories, with almost exactly the same wording
< 1274648469 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't know, actually.
< 1274648471 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably these things are just memes that spread around in gaming circles
< 1274648471 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are many rules in D&D you have to override, especially since you can make up any new situation with new ideas
< 1274648475 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and neither do I
< 1274648480 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: These ones are just common knowledge in gaming circles.
< 1274648483 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1274648495 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Except, of course, when it is sufficiently amusing.
< 1274648507 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am unable to play RPGs.
< 1274648518 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As I lack sufficient friends to do so
< 1274648549 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ... You're too lonely to play D&D? Now that's sad.
< 1274648559 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1274648563 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I play D&D sometimes
< 1274648579 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My character cannot do very much damage in one turn, but that's OK, I don't need
< 1274648582 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, more that the couple of friends I have aren't even remotely interested.
< 1274648597 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can increase my armor class a lot in one turn, however.
< 1274648604 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: DPS is only worth it when it's entertaining, of course.
< 1274648622 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: What does DPS means?
< 1274648629 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damage-Per-Second.
< 1274648639 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Used to refer to a character build based on maximising that.
< 1274648659 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See: most roll-players.
< 1274648662 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that is what some people like to do, but different people like to play differently
< 1274648723 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I play it differently, planning ahead too much and using such things as Zwischenzug and so on.
< 1274648741 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also try to avoid to kill someone, usually.
< 1274648761 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That alone makes the game a lot more intricate.
< 1274648949 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> I've been to Canada and back
< 1274648954 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit I want to be in Canada!
< 1274648971 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a relatively pointless experience, really
< 1274649071 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I am already in Canada.
< 1274649093 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: ... You're too lonely to play D&D? Now that's sad.
< 1274649106 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Me too; I have 0 real-life friends. Well, that's not true, I have about four but that's just because I met up with some internet friends.
< 1274649123 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: can you provide me with lodging :|
< 1274649128 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl
< 1274649133 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I don't think so.
< 1274649146 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm... idea
< 1274649154 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: international nomic competitions; every game is two-player nomic
< 1274649157 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :played in person, in real time
< 1274649169 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd need a pretty robust initial moveset
< 1274649174 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps in the later stages, the initial ruleset gets harder and harder to work with
< 1274649179 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I fear that with two, people would constantly vote down each other's proposals
< 1274649180 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :requiring greater nomic skill
< 1274649184 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's clearly the best strategy
< 1274649189 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so nothing would ever happen
< 1274649192 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: okay then, four -- or perhaps some mechanism to make this not happen somehow
< 1274649197 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as penalties for voting against
< 1274649230 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you use an odd number of players, such as three or five players?
< 1274649246 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've even seen a solitaire version of Nomic online
< 1274649251 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know some five players card games, such as Napoleon
< 1274649259 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where the initial rules had huge restrictions on proposals, and the idea was to win in the minimum number of turns
< 1274649273 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what were you in canada for, btw?
< 1274649294 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from Agoran diplomatic relations
< 1274649309 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/btw/eh/
< 1274649318 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: conference
< 1274649363 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: WHY WASN'T I INVITED :p
< 1274649378 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you hadn't submitted a paper to it?
< 1274649389 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What conference is that?
< 1274649429 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you play D&D, is there a big monster with three tentacles in your party (perhaps NPC)?
< 1274649442 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's only in the D&D 3.4Hentai edition.
< 1274649482 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does such an edition exist?
< 1274649489 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I play 3.5 edition
< 1274649491 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: That *sort* of thing actually exists. Don't recall the name of the splat book in question, though.
< 1274649513 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope such an edition doesn't exist but, well...
< 1274649524 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Mathematical Foundations of Programming Semantics
< 1274649535 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either way, my question did not mean such things as that
< 1274649615 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Thanks, what are some of the things discussed in that conference?
< 1274649628 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was mostly about mathematical models of programming
< 1274649635 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much of it was extremely technical
< 1274649642 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean more specific
< 1274649678 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh, I hate the SCP wiki!
< 1274649681 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :game semantics, categorical models of programming-related structures
< 1274649689 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Amazing time-waste, isn't it?
< 1274649699 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK
< 1274649702 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Amazing FUCK FUCK FUCK WHY AM I LOOKING AROUND -- IT'S DARK NOW, I WILL NOT BE ABLE TO SLEEP --
< 1274649707 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- I CANNOT LEAVE THIS ROOM -- I --
< 1274649719 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahahahah.
< 1274649727 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did that.
< 1274649730 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-243-203-60.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274649734 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I literally did not sleep at all.
< 1274649737 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely you sleep when dark
< 1274649749 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sleep too
< 1274649754 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not when you've een reading the SCP wiki...
< 1274649762 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/een/been/
< 1274649764 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's scary shit there.
< 1274649770 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I sleep even when reading SCP wiki
< 1274649780 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't stop me from doing so
< 1274649786 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are evidently superman.
< 1274649794 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not superman
< 1274649810 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, of course not.
< 1274649822 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You wouldn't want the Foundation getting you.
< 1274649837 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No, that has nothing to do with it
< 1274649856 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of coursee.
< 1274649881 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly most things described there are impossible. But perhaps me or someone can figure out if some of these things are in fact possible or partially possible just to see if it is or not
< 1274649893 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you can make thought experiment even for impossible things, I suppose?
< 1274649916 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they keep deleting files!
< 1274649927 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My problem is that my rational mind legs it once the lights are off.
< 1274649955 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Legs what?
< 1274649966 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Idiom.
< 1274649982 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I am not superman and my D&D character is not superman either)
< 1274649991 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :legs it, i.e. runs away
< 1274649996 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb.
< 1274650002 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: OK
< 1274650044 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can be rational mind becoming mixed up while sleeping, but if you are so, you are sleeping, once you wake up fully you are OK?
< 1274650089 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(At least to me it is, usually)
< 1274650111 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does one tell if one is sleeping.
< 1274650124 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/.$/?$/
< 1274650126 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You guess.
< 1274650131 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's how.
< 1274650131 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ps
< 1274650174 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes when I sleep I know I am sleeping, but sometimes I forgot and I don't think so.
< 1274650288 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are various ways to determine if you're sleeping
< 1274650296 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one way is to attempt to read something that's written
< 1274650309 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll find you have to concentrate on the letters for the words to be made of letters, rather than just words
< 1274650315 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Things like this do not actually always work.
< 1274650324 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only sometimes.
< 1274650345 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes you would forget that is the case
< 1274650349 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what happens when you sleep
< 1274650530 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made some changes in Spider Tarot, you could fix it more if you think there is another mistake, sprunge TfgQ
< 1274650824 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it possible on Linux to set a user to have multiple groups?
< 1274650856 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1274650875 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :users have one "primary group" but they can be in any number of other groups as well
< 1274650891 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK
< 1274651147 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> you'll find you have to concentrate on the letters for the words to be made of letters, rather than just words
< 1274651148 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :false
< 1274651151 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't even read words in dreams
< 1274651156 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they simply are not there
< 1274651168 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, maybe
< 1274651176 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps it affects different people differently
< 1274651178 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely; try to read a book in a dream sometime, even when lucid
< 1274651195 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: the answer to "how do you know you are dreaming": reality checks
< 1274651201 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try lucid dreaming some time. it's very interesting
< 1274651209 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :always freaks me out though: knowing the imperfections in this constructed reality.
< 1274651273 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes it works, sometimes you don't know, sometimes it seems to work but can't, but you forgot until you are wake up
< 1274651284 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you are dreaming right now. Do a reality check.
< 1274651307 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: I can read text perfectly fine, colour is incredibly vibrant, and I've experienced no sort of realisation that I'm dreaming.
< 1274651312 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And both of my hands have the correct number of fingers.
< 1274651319 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cannot breath while holding my nose.
< 1274651326 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clocks are staying the same between looks.
< 1274651329 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am awake.
< 1274651363 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Did you think there is still a mistake in the Spider Tarot implementation file?)
< 1274651369 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find that I can read text in my dreams. Usually, I try to pass a finger through a palm
< 1274651387 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug*
< 1274651393 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one relatively easy way is to choose to wake up
< 1274651397 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find it changes every time
< 1274651402 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that nearly always works if you're asleep, just you rarely think of doing it
< 1274651408 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if you choose to wake up sometimes it cannot work, but sometimes it can
< 1274651416 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you are supposed to do a reality check when you find your thoughts turning to thoughts about dreaming
< 1274651416 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're awake, it obviously does nothing
< 1274651418 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if I know I am sleep!
< 1274651460 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been a while since I've had a lucid dream
< 1274651468 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but the whole point of lucid dreaming is that you DON'T want to wake up
< 1274651476 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I had a lucid dream the night before last.
< 1274651479 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I can't do things like passing fingers through a palm I don't think
< 1274651482 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe the night before that.
< 1274651485 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I always have >5 fingers
< 1274651491 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: if you don't want to wake up, why care if you're awake or asleep?
< 1274651491 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they're sometimes in strange places on my hand
< 1274651500 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: because if you realise you're dreaming, you can control the dreamworld
< 1274651504 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I seem to consistently have too many fingers.
< 1274651514 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps you should try to control it the JS way
< 1274651517 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Or do you not see the appeal of being god in a universe that can defy physical laws?
< 1274651522 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test to see if you can control the universe by thinking at it
< 1274651524 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not for being awake or asleep
< 1274651530 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To have an experience entirely specific to your wishes?
< 1274651541 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, that's one reality check.
< 1274651544 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can only affect the universe in a lucid dream if you really think it will work.
< 1274651549 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is hard to do without first knowing you're dreaming.
< 1274651555 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise you'd have to think it'll really work in real life too; then you would be insane.
< 1274651557 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, interesting
< 1274651565 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps it does work in real life
< 1274651570 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just nobody believes it strongly enough to make it happen
< 1274651571 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaaand he turns insane
< 1274651589 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: perhaps, but there's no reason to think so.
< 1274651601 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed
< 1274651608 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this is #esoteric, I like questioning assumptions
< 1274651612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe
< 1274651622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 btw
< 1274651624 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it questioned.  :P
< 1274651626 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1274651644 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: have you never had a lucid dream?
< 1274651648 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I have
< 1274651653 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your suggestions about reality checks seem to suggest you hadn't
< 1274651657 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :often I didn't realise I was dreaming at the time
< 1274651658 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok, have you ever /wanted/ to have one?
< 1274651664 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err... that's not lucid
< 1274651664 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, not deliberately
< 1274651665 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I question that this is the forum for questioning assumptions!
< 1274651668 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lucid dreaming = dreaming & aware dreaming
< 1274651678 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to have one, but I haven't....
< 1274651678 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although sometimes I wanted to continue them once I realised I was asleep, and continued
< 1274651689 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: ah, to me, lucid dreaming = dreaming where you control your actoins
< 1274651690 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*actions
< 1274651694 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the world around you
< 1274651700 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you do in every dream, just not very intelligently (control your actions)
< 1274651700 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't need to know you're asleep to do that
< 1274651707 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really, not for me
< 1274651708 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The idea of having a lucid dream makes me want to have a lucid dream!
< 1274651709 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well your definition is wrong :-)
< 1274651713 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't continue with dream plots after I become lucid
< 1274651716 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just can't get into the zone
< 1274651720 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my problem is: I can never get clearness
< 1274651722 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the idea of wanting something makes me want to do something else.  :P
< 1274651727 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do the spinning, which is supposed to help; everything is still cloudy.
< 1274651730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, dream plots?
< 1274651734 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Touch and stare at bricks and other detailed objects: doesn't help.
< 1274651735 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we both dream pretty differently
< 1274651737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, as in plotter or as in story?
< 1274651739 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try and keep doing things rationally: doesn't help.
< 1274651745 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it goes all fuzzy and I wake up.
< 1274651746 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Story....
< 1274651749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1274651762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION imagines a plotter plotting graphs of dreams
< 1274651765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be interesting
< 1274651765 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: that's because you're too logical, I think
< 1274651772 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dream plots normally aren't self-consistent
< 1274651786 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I can do totally illogical things afterwards
< 1274651789 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can imagine you're the sort of person who'd notice, and that would screw up lucid reality
< 1274651793 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I lose all sympathy for the characters in the dream
< 1274651796 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dream plots are never self-consistent, even if you think it is
< 1274651796 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you know it isn't real
< 1274651796 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and care not one bit about the plot
< 1274651797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I almost never remember my dreams
< 1274651804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and as far as I know I never had a lucid one
< 1274651805 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you think it is that is because you are inconsistent
< 1274651815 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you can have a sensible illusion of reality unless you think it's real
< 1274651820 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's funny the limitations on my current lucid abilities.
< 1274651836 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can jump out of a window and glide to the ground; I can manage some sort of limited, crappy low gliding-flight.
< 1274651845 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cannot change my surroundings at will or cause things to appear.
< 1274651852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, before you do that make sure it actually is a lucid dream
< 1274651856 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Of course.
< 1274651862 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, if you ever notice you have more fingers than usual in a dream:
< 1274651863 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, my flight abilities were generally limited to floating down staircases
< 1274651867 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Touch the strange ones.
< 1274651869 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You will FEEL TEM!
< 1274651870 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*THEM
< 1274651874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1274651875 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I could make the staircases appear at will, so it was less limited than it might feel
< 1274651876 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, it will feel like a tingling, faint and strange.
< 1274651879 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It definitely feels alien.
< 1274651881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I see...
< 1274651884 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But still, there is sensation.
< 1274651893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I never been aware of dreaming while dreaming so..
< 1274651893 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can sense six or more fingers.
< 1274651898 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I had recursive dreams
< 1274651898 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's bizarre.
< 1274651904 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: most people do
< 1274651915 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yeah but recursive dreams are pretty strange
< 1274651922 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Apparently if you can make a mirror or similar appear with your desired dreamworld in it, you can enter it to go there
< 1274651929 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, apparently thinking of a place and spinning around will get you there too
< 1274651930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like dreaming you wake up, and you don't
< 1274651939 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dreamworlds are like all the silly magic fantasies ... working
< 1274651945 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for me it just needed a place in dreamworld geography
< 1274651956 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sometimes have very recursive dreams
< 1274651967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what about clapping your hands and believing in faeries? ;P
< 1274651968 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: more than two levels?
< 1274651974 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to do two levels a lot, although it hasn't recently
< 1274651986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I actually had 3 levels once
< 1274651987 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That might even work.
< 1274651988 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly, waking up, getting ready, etc, then waking up again and being annoyed at having to do it all all over again
< 1274651991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was bloody strange
< 1274651997 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously I didn't know I was asleep at the time (and it wasn't lucid)
< 1274651998 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, more than two levels. I don't remember exactly but I think perhaps seven levels
< 1274651999 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Side-note, apparently dream sex is better than the real thing.
< 1274652005 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: that's impressive
< 1274652006 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good luck getting lucid enough to do that though.
< 1274652014 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: how on earth did you keep track?
< 1274652020 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I expect it's better than the real thing by definition
< 1274652026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what about dream sex without being lucid?
< 1274652029 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's what you want to have from sex, not what sex actually is
< 1274652030 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, it depends.
< 1274652039 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Please, for the love of god, tell me you don't actually know.
< 1274652041 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose if you have a bad imagination you'd find it hard to think of what you want from sex.
< 1274652047 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No, I don't :P
< 1274652048 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I don't know how. I don't actually remember so I guessed
< 1274652061 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that is the best I can remember
< 1274652068 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: maybe it was only two levels, but seven equalled two in that dreamworld
< 1274652131 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Of course, an issue with lucid dreams is that the characters can never be realistic.
< 1274652140 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course such things are possible, but that isn't what I can remember (of course it is not possibly to remember exactly the dreams)
< 1274652141 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because your subconscious will be maintaining them; at best they'll be poor copies of you.
< 1274652148 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people aren't realistic in real life either, though
< 1274652150 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or even unrealistic in an interesting way
< 1274652158 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seven is just the approximate number. But I know it was something close to that number
< 1274652166 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One thing I'd like to do in a dream is to get powerful enough to be able to set pi to 3.
< 1274652174 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, :D
< 1274652177 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine my vision will go all fucked up and then I'll wake up. :)
< 1274652180 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd need to know the consequences
< 1274652183 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not really
< 1274652184 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or be able to work them out
< 1274652185 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you'd fail
< 1274652187 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just make the geometry non-Euclidean.
< 1274652190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah what ais523 said
< 1274652194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw
< 1274652196 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's your own mind doing the calculations, after all
< 1274652199 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: my mind would just go on my naive "dream" expectation of what would happen if pi became 3
< 1274652202 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Positive curvature should do.
< 1274652204 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1274652209 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :circles becoming hexagons, etc?
< 1274652210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are the consequences of pi = 3?
< 1274652211 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is, everything goes fucked up and the universe is destroyed
< 1274652222 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't think my mind can perceive a non-pi pi
< 1274652229 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: nothing much; it's simply false.
< 1274652235 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pi isn't a constant you can change
< 1274652239 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a consequence
< 1274652241 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, if anything Pi is *already* less than 3.14159...
< 1274652262 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The universe is only locally Euclidean.
< 1274652267 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pi is in Euclidean geometry.
< 1274652283 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's no Euclidean on Earth.
< 1274652288 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: everything is a consequence of pi = 3.
< 1274652295 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: O rly?
< 1274652297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, hm
< 1274652300 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And anyway, I said locally. As in locally.
< 1274652307 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're in a gravity well.
< 1274652309 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QED.
< 1274652318 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pi has the value it has regardless of geometry. You just have to use it different ways in different geometries.
< 1274652320 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Locally as in "visual proofs work if you look at them".
< 1274652329 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Yes, but pi as the ratio that it is.
< 1274652345 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but the ratio of the circumference to the diameter changes.
< 1274652349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, try changing e as well
< 1274652351 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the "circles are hexagons" consequence of pi = 3.
< 1274652365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, then what would hexagons become?
< 1274652368 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except it's not valid.
< 1274652369 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Do you just hate Euler?
< 1274652370 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Circles.  :P
< 1274652377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no, why?
< 1274652383 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: His identity.
< 1274652388 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Circles would still have no (or infinity) corners.
< 1274652390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hah
< 1274652391 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're RUINING it!
< 1274652456 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I think that a number of the form a^(bi) where a and b are real numbers always has absolute value 1.
< 1274652466 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION installs sage to try it.
< 1274652471 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try sage, not what uorygl said.
< 1274652486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sage ?
< 1274652493 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CAS>
< 1274652493 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I'm confident that that's true for positive a.
< 1274652506 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or a mush of CASes.
< 1274652520 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's clearly false for a = 0.
< 1274652533 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sage is a mush of CASs with a bad python frontend
< 1274652533 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But eh.
< 1274652541 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm tired of Mathematica's UI on Linux.
< 1274652546 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As for negative a, my intuition stops there.  :P
< 1274652551 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( sagemath is no longer in Ubuntu, it seems
< 1274652559 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I remember that (-1)^i is a biggish real number.
< 1274652577 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's actaully a smallish one.  Bah.
< 1274652580 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i^i is real, and that still confuses me.
< 1274652587 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duck duck go is so awesome
< 1274652599 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(-1)^i = e^-pi :P
< 1274652620 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, complex exponentiation is multivalued.
< 1274652640 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I know, (-1)^i and e^-pi have all the same values.
< 1274652665 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though, obviously, e^-pi has a certain interpretation as the exp function.
< 1274653067 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!~user@2002:5870:32ae:1:4261:86ff:fe96:fca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274653181 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, um, why do all CASs suck?
< 1274653232 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the problems are undecidable unless one approximates?
< 1274653250 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274653259 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No; you don't use a CAS for such problems (and they try very hard to never return approximated results).
< 1274653267 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's because they suck, is the answer.
< 1274653284 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They fall into two categories: Closed source thinsg that can do what you want, but with a lot of fluff, some fundamental issues, and horrible UIs;
< 1274653286 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*things
< 1274653300 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and open source ones with a decent foundation, no UI whatsoever, and extremely limited capabilities.
< 1274653315 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I were a crazy man I would say that I should start a project to create a decent open-source CAS -- I am a crazy man.
< 1274653325 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Approximates" meaning one has to take some shortcuts.
< 1274653342 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274653388 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mm. But I don't think that's why they suck; it's unavoidable.
< 1274653604 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1274653980 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274654060 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sage has Maxima, hasn't it?
< 1274654097 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1274654110 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it uses Maxima for some things.
< 1274654124 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So why not just use Maxima?
< 1274654151 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.2 MiB/s, oh yeah.
< 1274654160 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Because Sage has a nicer interface and can also associate with other packages.
< 1274654163 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maxima itself is very limited.
< 1274654177 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should give Symbolics mucho moneys and get myself a copy of Macsyma (predecessor of Maxima) :-)
< 1274654188 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, ooh, go back to the 70s A.I. Lab and use AUTOMATH!
< 1274654203 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But Maxima is from MacSyma's code, isn't it?
< 1274654215 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1274654226 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's cooler. It ran on Lisp Machines for fuck's sake!
< 1274654238 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But no-one uses them!
< 1274654252 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can still buy them!
< 1274654274 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.lispmachine.net/symbolics.txt $675 to $3,500.
< 1274654279 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they're still amazing.
< 1274654292 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We must build our own!
< 1274654306 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My life dream, man. My life dream.
< 1274654309 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apart from my other ones
< 1274654313 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like?
< 1274654358 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Building the perfect CAS, building the perfect OS, building the perfect interface...
< 1274654384 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not, like, solving the Reimann hypothesis or anything?
< 1274654388 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Build the singularity...
< 1274654392 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Hey, I was getting there!
< 1274654411 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't believe that I could solve the Riemann hypothesis, anyway.
< 1274654416 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I will build the singularity first!
< 1274654436 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then do the rest!
< 1274654439 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I did fancy once proving it independent of ZFC, as a big ha-ha-fuck-you to both camps.
< 1274654447 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: But the singularity will do the rest for you... at least the ones that are still relevant.
< 1274654469 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274654471 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Also, make sure it's Friendly.
< 1274654479 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will be the singularity!
< 1274654494 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although you can throw the "friendly" out of the window, then.
< 1274654496 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STARRING ELIEZER YUDKOWSKY AS HIMSELF...
< 1274654498 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Omega
< 1274654504 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coming to a mind near you...
< 1274654518 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's just the head of a quasi-personality cult.
< 1274654526 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also featuring Robin Hanson and uorygl (for comic relief).
< 1274654527 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Antagonist: taw
< 1274654542 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Eh, I don't see Eliezer as a cult leader.
< 1274654544 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where do we fit oerjan?
< 1274654546 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not his fault people idolise him.
< 1274654558 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty sure oerjan wants nothing to do with the singularity; he believes in god anyway :)
< 1274654573 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will go to war with god!
< 1274654581 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Steady on, Philip Pullman.
< 1274654595 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the whole bloody incompleteness thing!
< 1274654618 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's Goedel you're thinking of there, not god
< 1274654625 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: is Hansom part of the comic relief crew?
< 1274654630 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hansom :D
< 1274654635 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where does fax come in?
< 1274654648 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I get for typing with one hand and one finger.
< 1274654659 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: No, he's just a raving scientist on the side.
< 1274654663 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: fax is secretly god.
< 1274654664 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274654675 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :She just has problems coming up with proofs of his own existence... and really hates humans
< 1274654676 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I shall go to war with fax!
< 1274654677 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*her
< 1274654692 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And break her Klein bottles!
< 1274654699 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PG-13 plz
< 1274654710 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Riemann hypothesis seems like the sort of thing that's definitely either true or false.
< 1274654724 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I should add some more "definitely"s.
< 1274654733 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's definitely either definitely true or definitely false.
< 1274654737 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've often wondered what the undecidability of the RH would imply.
< 1274654750 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Be careful.
< 1274654756 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it would obviously be decidable if a counterexample existed.
< 1274654766 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was some hypothesis, I forget what,
< 1274654775 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where a case for n=m was proven
< 1274654780 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then n=m+1 or such was proved independent
< 1274654782 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without anyone expecting it
< 1274654851 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rw-r--r-- 1 ehird ehird 502M 2010-05-23 22:45 sage-4.4.2-linux-64bit-ubuntu_10.04_lts-x86_64-Linux.tar.gz
< 1274654852 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_O
< 1274654857 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is alise in this epic.
< 1274654869 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: a real boy.
< 1274654872 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THERE ARE NO STRINGS TO HOLD ME DOWN--
< 1274654885 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION grabs some string
< 1274654900 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yeah, Sage is massive.
< 1274654911 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww, ais went
< 1274654922 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I offloaded it onto an experimental flash drive RAID.
< 1274654940 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it how many gigs when expanded?
< 1274654940 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2?
< 1274654950 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 and a bit, IIRC.
< 1274654994 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION interprets that literally before realizing that the non-literal interpretation is a lot more likely.
< 1274654997 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All this for a system inferior to the commercial CASs.
< 1274655001 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sheesh.
< 1274655004 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Interprets what literally?
< 1274655020 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought Phantom_Hoover meant "one gigabyte plus one bit".
< 1274655023 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1274655033 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sage now lives in ~/research/2010-05/sage; a rather unassuming directory name for the behemoth it is.
< 1274655061 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think a lot of the cruft is pointless copies of libraries you almost certainly already have.
< 1274655066 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just use the web version.
< 1274655084 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, maybe not
< 1274655089 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@129.241.210.68 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274655095 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No; too slow and... impersonal.
< 1274655103 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, yeah.
< 1274655123 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though the offline version takes an ungodly time to load.
< 1274655129 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what directory name would suggest that it contains a lot.
< 1274655147 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And god help you if you are foolish enough to *move* it.
< 1274655151 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: /opt/sage
< 1274655156 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/var/aggregated-database/sage
< 1274655163 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sage: 2+2
< 1274655163 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4
< 1274655164 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WOOOO
< 1274655165 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or that.
< 1274655165 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was worth it.
< 1274655173 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It regenerates *every single pyo and pyc file*.
< 1274655193 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yeah, it did that just now :)
< 1274655195 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Took a few minutes
< 1274655206 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about ~/research/2010-05/sage-bloody-huge?
< 1274655215 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sage: solve(a==1+(1/a), a)
< 1274655215 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[a == -1/2*sqrt(5) + 1/2, a == 1/2*sqrt(5) + 1/2]
< 1274655225 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It's the date subdivision that does the little-soundingness, I think.
< 1274655255 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~/research/bloody-huge/sage?
< 1274655271 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could be a bit more subtle.
< 1274655283 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Subtlety is for the weak.
< 1274655295 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sage: (golden_ratio == 1/2*sqrt(5) + 1/2).full_simplify()
< 1274655295 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/2*sqrt(5) + 1/2 == 1/2*sqrt(5) + 1/2
< 1274655298 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. :P
< 1274655325 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1274655330 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please choose a new password for the Sage Notebook 'admin' user.
< 1274655331 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do _not_ choose a stupid password, since anybody who could guess your password
< 1274655331 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and connect to your machine could access or delete your files.
< 1274655331 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOTE: Only the md5 hash of the password you type is stored by Sage.
< 1274655331 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can change your password by typing notebook(reset=True).
< 1274655334 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :md5, great :P
< 1274655349 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it broken?
< 1274655357 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's ... weak.
< 1274655357 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MD5 is quite broken these days.
< 1274655369 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not broken by a long stretch: but cracking passwords is doable with some heuristics.
< 1274655371 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And luck..
< 1274655372 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've forgotten my Sage admin password.
< 1274655373 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*luck...
< 1274655377 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's generally just quite weak.
< 1274655387 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes off and gets USB drives
< 1274655533 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, I love the typesetting ability.
< 1274655540 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god it can use TeX fonts awesome
< 1274655548 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAIK, MD5 is not broken for password hashing.
< 1274655582 0 :Portponky!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think for md5 there is a way of generating collisions?
< 1274655592 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is
< 1274655594 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well-established
< 1274655605 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Portponky: Actually, attacks against it are more advanced than just collisions.
< 1274655605 0 :Portponky!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't break it for passwords
< 1274655615 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah, I knew this flash drive RAID thing was a bad idea
< 1274655617 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't broken
< 1274655623 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but people choose bad passwords often...
< 1274655630 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm pretty sure md5 weaknesses have been exploited for that
< 1274655635 0 :Portponky!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't you generate a crapload of MD5 sums quickly?
< 1274655635 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i'm wrong
< 1274655641 0 :Portponky!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah there's a backwards md5 search for common strings
< 1274655644 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :md5 is very fast ofc
< 1274655649 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is its weakness, partially
< 1274655656 0 :Portponky!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :valve used it in their portal 2 arg
< 1274655657 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAIK, the state of the art is given X and Y, find Z and W such that MD5(XZ) = MD5(YW).
< 1274655705 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION must sleep
< 1274655710 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: musn't.
< 1274655715 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's only 11pm.
< 1274655866 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's one reason why just doing Hash(password) and storing that is bad idea.
< 1274655873 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1274655909 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Password storage should utilize 1) Iteration 2) salting.
< 1274655965 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274655973 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Iteration?  Does that mean taking the hash a bunch of times, salting every time.
< 1274655980 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274655993 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1274656012 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAIK, one has to only salt once in first iteration.
< 1274656036 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So iteration means you just take hashes of hashes?
< 1274656044 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pw_safe = MD5^n(salt(pw))
< 1274656058 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Set n so that calculating pw_safe takes about 1-2 seconds.
< 1274656063 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd salt /your/ iterations
< 1274656065 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everyone can wait 1-2 seconds to register or log in.
< 1274656066 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you know what i mean
< 1274656068 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;o ;o ;o
< 1274656068 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it'll be very secure.
< 1274656068 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's bit excessive...
< 1274656078 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: But utterly harmless.
< 1274656090 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, well, not being excessive enough is what got us here today: continually replacing our security algorithms.
< 1274656093 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pw_safe = salt|MD5^n(salt|pw)
< 1274656110 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not like the more-bits-are-better nonsense you find in bad public key systems.
< 1274656119 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, here's what you should really do:
< 1274656130 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pw_safe = bcrypt(pw, n)
< 1274656136 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess iteration does make the hash, and therefore any cracking, take longer.
< 1274656139 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One could design very slow but very unlikely to be ever broken hash function.
< 1274656140 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turns out OpenBSD are really fucking good at this stuff.
< 1274656142 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Problem solved.
< 1274656161 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't they use EKS Blowfish?
< 1274656171 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They use blowfish + salting + repeated iterations.
< 1274656174 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's all very fancy.
< 1274656186 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you believe cperciva, FreeBSD security officer, you should now use his scrypt instead.
< 1274656365 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1274656495 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274656582 0 :alise!~alise@91.105.70.71 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274656721 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274656751 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lar
< 1274656778 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set unification is horrible
< 1274656784 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can i just say this
< 1274656818 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unpermissibile.
< 1274656845 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i dont have a clear definition of it in my head
< 1274657206 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah
< 1274657211 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need the perfect cas. clearly
< 1274657325 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man, DDG is awesome.
< 1274658836 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death
< 1274658836 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274659275 0 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274659278 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://3537.pl/programista.html
< 1274659280 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funny
< 1274659677 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274659689 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a job offer
< 1274659767 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to read a sequence of memory states and output the shortest boolfuck program that transforms memory from one state to another
< 1274660841 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SG-1 > Thing due in a week
< 1274660852 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That I would have had a month to work on if my computer was working
< 1274661008 0 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274661041 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alise, ping me before you leave
< 1274662370 0 :Portponky!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: chicken is nature's potato
< 1274663425 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I think not having a commercial break here would make the episode worse.
< 1274663582 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worse is better?
< 1274663632 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just out of curiosity, any ideas?
< 1274663669 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a pyramid made out of giant fries
< 1274663703 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(going with the potato theme here)
< 1274663737 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds yummy
< 1274663756 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the boolfuck delta between two memory states sounds more interesting
< 1274663780 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If less delicious.
< 1274664356 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1274664501 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, this problem sounds interesting
< 1274664782 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't the general problem of taking two memory states and outputting shortest program to transform them from first to second RE-hard?
< 1274664966 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well starting from an empty state gives you kolmogorov complexity, which is undecidable
< 1274664998 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274665015 0 :uorygl!~Warrigal@rrcs-70-63-156-144.midsouth.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274665018 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274665316 0 :uorygl!~Warrigal@rrcs-70-63-156-144.midsouth.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274665317 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not two memory states to be exact
< 1274665363 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://3537.pl/programista.html check out the 'przykĹ‚ad' section, there is a sample input and output
< 1274665491 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um boolfuck has no I/O, so i would assume the input is the initial memory state, and the output is the final one, with some simple encoding.
< 1274665517 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1274665524 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's enough to make it undecidable in general (in fact the input is unnecessary)
< 1274665546 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/memory/tape/g
< 1274665553 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get a sequence of memory states
< 1274665561 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh?
< 1274665561 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Halting problem.
< 1274665581 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you have to find a program that produces them during it's execution
< 1274665608 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like for
< 1274665626 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :000,100,110,111 the program is +>
< 1274665632 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/nooga> yes/nooga> no/
< 1274665652 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um
< 1274665665 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you'd only the firs and the last state
< 1274665669 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :take*
< 1274665695 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought bf.in and bf.out were I/O for the boolfuck program, sheesh
< 1274665780 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, your task is to generate boolfuck program for given input
< 1274665789 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok.  it's still undecidable in principle since it's undecidable between any pair of consecutive states.
< 1274665809 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but obviously if the programs are very short, you can solve it
< 1274665815 0 :alise!~alise@91.105.70.71 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274665836 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yo
< 1274665853 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<nooga> http://3537.pl/programista.html
< 1274665857 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eset -- they make NOD32, yeah?
< 1274665874 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and their job offer involves boolfuck?
< 1274665878 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like a pretty good place to work
< 1274665917 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm wait
< 1274665942 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: the tape length is fixed in advance?  then it's solvable.
< 1274666019 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since then so is the halting problem
< 1274666086 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: i say go for the job :P
< 1274666091 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1274666094 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming there's nothing non-obvious written in that polish
< 1274666508 0 :Zuu!zuu@0x55529f1b.adsl.cybercity.dk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274666509 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host
< 1274666509 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274666691 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"--and also, whomsoever solves this problem hereby enlists their soul towards our demonic army of gnomes, who do verily check every file. You thought that was a program? Ha ha ha ha ha ha..."
< 1274667547 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1274668586 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey guys I proved P=NP
< 1274668629 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ i = 0; for (sol in possible_solutions) { if correct(sol) return sol; if (i > 10^(10^100)) halt; } }
< 1274668637 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: algorithm is unusable)
< 1274668645 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: algorithm does always terminate because the universe will be dead by then)
< 1274668736 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i spot a bug
< 1274668899 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274668906 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274668908 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--but nobody will ever know it, ha ha ha
< 1274668912 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no! he's back!
< 1274668914 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eliminate him!
< 1274668929 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange network error just as i was typing my comment :(
< 1274668939 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the bug then smarty :P
< 1274668953 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i is never incremented
< 1274668964 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um that's a feature of the language
< 1274668969 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ i = 0; for (sol in possible_solutions) { if correct(sol) return sol; if (i > 10^(10^100)) halt; i++ } }
< 1274668973 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :amended version for those who don't understand.
< 1274668977 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_>
< 1274668981 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU DON'T SAY
< 1274668994 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as i was saying but got cut off
< 1274668996 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::
< 1274669008 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.
< 1274669009 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's an algorithm guaranteed to work _if_ P=NP
< 1274669027 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's it called?
< 1274669028 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just iterate through all possible P algorithms
< 1274669032 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1274669039 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know any name
< 1274669044 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and besides, P=NP is practically worthless -- people who think it isn't are stupid :)
< 1274669055 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since you can always have an O(n) algorithm with a really fucking huge constant.
< 1274669059 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Is the set of possible P algorithms finite?
< 1274669073 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and dynamic programming + heuristics make NP problems okay in practice
< 1274669077 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: No, does that matter?
< 1274669081 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, doesn't matter.
< 1274669086 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The naturals are infinite, but looping through them until you find a certain one will always halt.
< 1274669089 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: no, but... oh wait
< 1274669098 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You *will* eventually find something, yes.
< 1274669104 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As the set is most certainly countable.
< 1274669131 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm maybe i remember it wrong, it seems to have an issue if the answer is "no"
< 1274669141 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw I hypothesised about a halting-checker;
< 1274669147 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do things such as:
< 1274669152 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even O(n^6) algo gets inpractical fast (just look at state-of-the-art AKS-based primality tests).
< 1274669164 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :check statements of the form "forall x in naturals, P(x)" and "exists x in naturals s.t. P(x)"
< 1274669174 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1274669178 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also evaluate all convergent infinite sums (without analytic/symbolic methods)
< 1274669183 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you cannot do the same for the reals
< 1274669190 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are (countably) inifinite number of problems in P.
< 1274669194 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried recursively nesting halt-checker calls, but you can't do it
< 1274669198 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as i know
< 1274669249 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Peter Shor points out that if we’re living in a simulation, then the incompatibility of quantum mechanics with general relativity might simply be a bug, in which case the universe will crash when the first black hole evaporates."
< 1274669252 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
< 1274669284 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah the black holes are page faults
< 1274669364 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or then, GR is wrong (at least when describing such extreme things as black holes...)
< 1274669390 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: well he said "might"
< 1274669406 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe string theory exposes the internal object representation of particles :-)
< 1274669410 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Seems to me that page faults being noticable is a bug.
< 1274669437 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't say
< 1274669458 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Even O(1) can absolutely suck if that constant factor is long.
< 1274669551 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, alise is still here
< 1274669625 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. i'm being hideously irresponsible
< 1274669644 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just impressed you slept last night.
< 1274669811 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Me too actually.
< 1274669868 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://nautilus.cs.miyazaki-u.ac.jp/~skata/MagicHaskeller.html
< 1274669873 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- The following will find the recursive form definition of the fibonacci function from its closed-form solution.
< 1274669873 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :init075 -- The problem is tough, so you should be prepared to resort whatever measure you can take!
< 1274669873 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :printAny (Ąf -> all (Ąn -> (f :: Int->Int) n == let phi = (1 + sqrt 5)/2 in round ((phi^n - (1-phi)^n) / sqrt 5) ) [0..9])
< 1274669875 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nuff said.
< 1274669889 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note of course that the Japanese yen sign is, in all the Windows fuckup glory, being used as a backslash.)
< 1274669893 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Just like in file paths.)
< 1274669930 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be perfectly fair to Windows, that's actually a fuckup from the JIS that old version of Windows merely complied with.
< 1274669937 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Versions, even.
< 1274669993 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, pikhq, this thing generates the recursive haskell fibonacci from Binet's formula.
< 1274670004 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly it isn't looking at Binet's formula -- pre-computed instead -- but still!
< 1274670017 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Spiffy.
< 1274670024 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JIS?
< 1274670048 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Japanese Industrial Standard.
< 1274670116 0 :Gregor-L!~Gregor@75-151-73-57-Spokane.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274670238 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Japanese Industrial Shitpile
< 1274670282 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The JIS standards are a shitpile.
< 1274670427 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My point exactly.
< 1274670974 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm bored, and I'm going to bed soon. But I'm still bored.
< 1274671035 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274671048 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274671065 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ wargames
< 1274671065 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would you like to play a game? [anything]
< 1274671065 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A strange game.
< 1274671065 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only winning move is
< 1274671065 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not to play.
< 1274671067 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pfft.
< 1274671075 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It needs to include a full simulation of Global Thermonuclear War and Tic-Tac-Toe.
< 1274671117 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thermonuclear tic-tac-toe?
< 1274671121 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or that
< 1274671140 0 :ws!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ...
< 1274671227 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow.
< 1274671236 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've discovered a brilliant hangman strategy.
< 1274671245 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just start "etaoinshrdlu".
< 1274671254 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: i see great potential there
< 1274671274 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1274671284 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Twenty masked gunmen in Gaza attack and burn to the ground a summer camp for children run by UNRWA for "teaching schoolgirls fitness, dancing, and immorality."]]
< 1274671368 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1274671519 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait
< 1274671522 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought it said "immortality"
< 1274671528 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1274671585 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1274671613 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Gregor
< 1274671614 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If only they could teach immortality.
< 1274671629 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hellote again sir.
< 1274671698 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought it was some awesome religious crazies
< 1274671707 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEY TEACH IMMORTALITY!!! THIS IS UNHOLY!!
< 1274671725 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird@ehird-desktop:/usr/games$ ./arithmetic
< 1274671725 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9 - 2 =   7
< 1274671726 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right!
< 1274671726 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6 + 8 =   Wow, fuck this.
< 1274671726 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please type a number.
< 1274671733 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some BSD games really suck.
< 1274671775 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah.
< 1274671782 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a better game would be /usr/games/ImpossibleMathProblems
< 1274671797 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ phd
< 1274671806 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do all of the zeroes of the Riemann zeta function lie on the critical line?
< 1274671806 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/games/Level5ProblemsFromTheArtOfComputerProgramming
< 1274671820 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can the problems in NP be solved by a P algorithm?
< 1274671820 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :problem one: prove that for all n > 2 and all x, y, z in N, x^n + y^n != z^n
< 1274671829 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do all Collatz sequences eventually reach 1?
< 1274671835 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: That's no longer level 5.
< 1274671839 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: that's already been proven.
< 1274671842 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4.5, IIRC.
< 1274671850 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but its still pretty hard :P
< 1274671857 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok scratch that
< 1274671858 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but it's not level 5!
< 1274671865 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :construct an ELEGANt proof of that.
< 1274671871 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are the level 5 problems then?
< 1274671874 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Wiles' proof is elegant.
< 1274671890 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Problems with unknown solutions, IIRC.
< 1274671896 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im not sure that mathematicians agree.
< 1274671919 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More elegant than everything else we've got.
< 1274671931 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except for that one the margin is too small to contain.
< 1274671964 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: I'm relatively sure you're wrong.
< 1274671978 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Such-and-such's proof of X is ugly because it's complicated" is basically what laymen think.
< 1274671983 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :his proof certainly isnt marginalia, thats for sure
< 1274671992 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes - that's because Fermat was full of shit.
< 1274672013 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem is Hard. The countless numbers of false solutions and the fact that only advanced mathematics solved it show with extremely high probability that Fermat was simply wrong about having a proof.
< 1274672066 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was length of the proof? 350 pages or so? That can't be elegant.
< 1274672077 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pity he didn't have a larger margin.
< 1274672084 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Wiles paper is over 100 pages long and often uses the peculiar symbols and notations of group theory, algebraic geometry, commutative algebra, and Galois theory.
< 1274672086 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Over 100 pages isn't too bad.
< 1274672097 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember that it turns out that Fermat's Last Theorem is pretty damn advanced stuff!
< 1274672107 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not everything can have a trivial proof. That doesn't mean the complicated proofs aren't elegant.
< 1274672181 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://math.stanford.edu/~lekheng/flt/wiles.pdf ;; the proof as it was published in Annals of Mathematics
< 1274672187 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reminds of excercise problem of proving that every undirected graph can be converted to directed graph such that on every vertex, indegree and outdegree only differ by at most 1...
< 1274672193 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://users.tpg.com.au/nanahcub/flt.pdf ;; one with searchable text (much smaller; hundreds of kilobytes instead of 10mb)
< 1274672255 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, I don't understand it; I doubt many people do.
< 1274672256 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's at least elegant way of proving that and unelegant way.
< 1274672261 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't look at it and see an ugly thing.
< 1274672269 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see a very complicated, complex thing, but not a gnarly thing.
< 1274672355 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, that article isn't even a proof of FLT.
< 1274672377 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a proof of an entirely different theorem; FLT just so happens to follow from it and countless other lemmas posed before.
< 1274672383 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elegant proofs tend to take huge leaps that are simple, yet unobivious.
< 1274672394 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The actual proof of FLT would just be... <huge list of lemmas & theorems including the one Wiles proved> "Q.E.D."
< 1274672470 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like leaping from that direction problem to eulerian circuits.
< 1274672487 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.x11r5.com/
< 1274672522 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION recently read a semishitty science fiction book about FLT
< 1274672541 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what on earth is x11r5.com :)
< 1274672547 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a markov bot
< 1274672558 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why's it have that name?
< 1274672568 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: you're more coherent than x11r5.
< 1274672568 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: is the language/ library dichotomy, i know; it's an occupational hazard for all of them
< 1274672574 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style
< 1274672574 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc* jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube
< 1274672578 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Wax eloquent.
< 1274672579 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: my network outage took a lot of native ppc code compilers for scheme or any other swear wordswear. what more could one ask for? i'm trying to
< 1274672585 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it uses the X11 server to .. do something
< 1274672590 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: X11.
< 1274672591 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: which would mean no integer arrays larger than 64k bytes, or truncate the key? evil grin which would have told me, what?"
< 1274672595 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not creative enough to come up with a good joke
< 1274672637 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It runs some code in an xterm, takes a screenshot, and uploads it
< 1274672669 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style agora
< 1274672669 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: agora (a large selection of Agora rules, both current and historical)
< 1274672679 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: prove Fermat's Last Theorem
< 1274672679 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: ( i) satisfy the draw within a time limit, e ceases to hold the delegated player;
< 1274672728 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: ahh but what if fermat's proof was real :o
< 1274672759 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style nethack
< 1274672759 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: nethack (NetHack 3.4.3 data.base, rumors.tru, rumors.fal)
< 1274672766 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: it isn't
< 1274672766 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: prove Fermat's Last Theorem
< 1274672766 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: if you try to zap it!" but the sword.
< 1274672774 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style darwin
< 1274672774 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: darwin (Books by Charles Darwin -- you know, that evilution guy)
< 1274672780 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: prove Fermat's Last Theorem
< 1274672780 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: i bet darwin could prove FLT with smilies
< 1274672781 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: oh pshaw you dont know
< 1274672781 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: my chief object is to see a flora written by a man who intends keeping pointers naturally tries to get/ subject as clear as daylight. old flourens " ( examen du livre de m. darwin une critique dont je fnord trouve que des debris dans un journal fnord.,/ outer edge :)/ reef.
< 1274672782 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: origin :) species,' and arranged for/ publication :) one volume for 1867-8.) i particularly admired tyndall's little speech " professor tyndall was president :)/ royal society, with notes on.
< 1274672793 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On / Origin :) Species
< 1274672796 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he speaks french!
< 1274672814 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, fnord?
< 1274672824 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :words deemed too rare to place in the file
< 1274672825 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what exactly is the source of that :p
< 1274672827 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) and / are encoding errors
< 1274672837 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style alice
< 1274672838 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: alice (Books by Lewis Carroll)
< 1274672840 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Oh, my!
< 1274672840 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: ' i'm not a bird!' and the waiters set a leg of mutton, and began fnord them into colours.
< 1274672843 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style youtube
< 1274672843 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: youtube (Some YouTube comments)
< 1274672848 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I am leaving. You are about to explode.
< 1274672856 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: I would not have thought of using YouTube comments.
< 1274672857 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: 15 seconds. what the hell
< 1274672867 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: WHAT
< 1274672867 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: why internet is like wtf
< 1274672869 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: took you less than that to respond, eh?
< 1274672869 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: whatever, i've told you where: they do their homework. seriously folks, do your own) so it wont have the same
< 1274672871 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha
< 1274672875 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote <fungot> alise: why internet is like wtf
< 1274672875 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: avril roxs your soxs video
< 1274672875 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: :(
< 1274672875 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: well, and the aircraft had no passengers... that guy is fantastic. there were probably 3 people died
< 1274672886 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the best source.
< 1274672888 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :163|<fungot> alise: why internet is like wtf
< 1274672898 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: it's quite a bit verbatim iirc
< 1274672909 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: the aircraft? where?
< 1274672909 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: you obviously can't be bothered to read the description! it's kinda scary at first but it was landing at a low approach of a bitch.
< 1274672911 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka assembled it by manually copying/pasting youtube comments (he isn't a good enough programmer to write a scraper)
< 1274673139 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... did anyone mention how scarily close this game is to a Turing machine: http://jayisgames.com/games/manufactoria/
< 1274673156 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a turing machine, or at least TC.
< 1274673157 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has unbounded memory
< 1274673161 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*memory.
< 1274673201 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but it's a queue instead of a tape
< 1274673217 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not long til I have to be up in 5 hours.
< 1274673246 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sleep is totally for wimps :p
< 1274673349 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must admit that I sometimes indulge, however
< 1274673591 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck
< 1274673592 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck
< 1274673593 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must sleep
< 1274673739 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274673755 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MUST SLEPOFK
< 1274673848 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1274673872 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1274674030 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye
< 1274674033 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: ping
< 1274674037 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's time
< 1274674049 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, bye :(
< 1274674054 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: bye :)
< 1274674055 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye alise
< 1274674056 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, keep working on improving things
< 1274674057 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`style irc
< 1274674058 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1274674060 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style irc
< 1274674060 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams)
< 1274674068 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: HEY i didn't ask YOU
< 1274674069 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sheesh!
< 1274674073 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i leave unsatisfied!
< 1274674075 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :pikhq
< 1274674079 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1274674079 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEENER NEENER
< 1274674531 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man
< 1274674535 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what i need?
< 1274674537 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alcohol
< 1274674537 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1274674729 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1274675526 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1274677319 0 :elliottcable!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ec
< 1274677367 0 :ec!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :\aaa
< 1274677377 0 :\aaa!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :\\-\\
< 1274677425 0 :\\-\\!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ec
< 1274677602 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-243-203-60.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1274681661 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night
< 1274681908 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1274682763 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274682770 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1274683092 0 :ec!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEENER NEENER
< 1274683105 0 :Gregor!~Gregor@75-151-73-57-Spokane.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274683473 0 :ec!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :metapointer
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< 1274684496 0 :tombom!~tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1274684929 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
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< 1274687999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
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< 1274695618 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1274699509 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu
< 1274700219 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274700582 0 :sdorand!~sdorand@pool-98-114-198-98.phlapa.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274701920 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ilua
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< 1274703942 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1274706060 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274706474 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
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< 1274706515 0 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274706891 0 :Phantom!~phantomho@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274706913 0 :Phantom!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Guest12499
< 1274706973 0 :Guest12499!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Phantom_Hoover
< 1274706998 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
< 1274706998 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split
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< 1274707117 0 :ec!~ec@ec2-174-129-205-205.compute-1.amazonaws.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274708529 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1274709281 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-11-120.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274709963 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-92-6.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274710034 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1274710142 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu
< 1274711747 0 :ws!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: take a nap
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< 1274713629 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1274713641 0 :Phantom!~phantomho@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274713669 0 :Phantom!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Guest93365
< 1274713733 0 :Guest93365!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1274714726 0 :sdorand_!~sdorand@pool-98-114-198-98.phlapa.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274714884 0 :sdorand!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1274715262 0 :Gregor-L!~Gregor@75-151-73-57-Spokane.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274715680 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1274715932 0 :Slereah!~jews@ANantes-259-1-59-162.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274716382 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1274716398 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Gregor
< 1274716611 0 :cheater2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1274716611 0 :cheater3!~cheater@ip-80-226-214-124.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274716905 0 :Slereah!~jews@ANantes-259-1-59-162.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274717088 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274717191 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274718542 0 :cheater3!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1274718780 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1274718802 0 :cheater2!~cheater@ip-80-226-193-48.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274719068 0 :Zuu!zuu@0x55529f1b.adsl.cybercity.dk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274719069 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host
< 1274719069 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274719591 0 :aschueler!~alec@host86-142-138-45.range86-142.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274719908 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274719946 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants to create a Lisp dialect where every instance of "s" is replaced with "th"
< 1274719996 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(litht 1 2 3)
< 1274720011 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*cough* http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/LITHP
< 1274720027 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay!
< 1274720096 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great nerds think alike
< 1274720120 0 :Mathnerd314_!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274720223 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1274720258 0 :Mathnerd314_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Mathnerd314
< 1274720428 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see figuring out Skyroads level format has been discussed here before...
< 1274720640 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Skyroads?
< 1274720717 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why in the name of goat did we make the wiki public domain?
< 1274720766 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its a PC game...
< 1274720784 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We can't even put GPL stuff on!
< 1274720866 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1274720870 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No GPLed code. On a *software* wiki.
< 1274720897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm where is ais when you need him
< 1274720951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, isn't the wiki GFDL or CC-by-sa?
< 1274720965 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, PD.
< 1274720984 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the page Esolang:Copyrights
< 1274720989 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gives Phantom_Hoover cookies :)
< 1274720997 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :public domain for the win
< 1274721030 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has no clue what people are on about, Zuu just arrived
< 1274721031 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a nice concept, but it's utterly impractical.
< 1274721044 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CC-BY-SA would be much better.
< 1274721067 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fact, since it's PD it could be switched with little fuss.
< 1274721114 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Later
< 1274721205 0 :fizzie!~fis@2001:1bc8:102:587b:230:18ff:fea9:6f01 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274721244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION watches a gtkwave window trying to figure out what is wrong
< 1274721268 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doh...
< 1274721282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I still need ais, for a VHDL question
< 1274721418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also fun, ghdl seems to accept ĂĄĂ¤Ă¶Ă„Ă– in comments in VHDL. But for Ă… it complains about invalid char
< 1274721449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess UTF-8 ĂĄĂ¤Ă¶Ă„Ă– simply doesn't hit problematic byte values for whatever encoding it uses.
< 1274721450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Ă… does
< 1274721463 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does
< 1274721475 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ă… is capital ĂĄ
< 1274721480 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, I know
< 1274721483 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should be in the same code tables
< 1274721495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, I speak Swedish after all. And the file was saved in UTF-8
< 1274721504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably, it doesn't use UTF-8 though
< 1274721505 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning that if one is problematic the other should be aswell
< 1274721517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, well that was not the case
< 1274721529 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the software is bugged
< 1274721548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, well rather, the software in question use some other encoding than UTF-8 when reading the file
< 1274721560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and since the editor saved the file in UTF-8
< 1274721575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably Ă… hits a bad code point while ĂĄ does not
< 1274721579 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just explained to you that even if it does, that wouldnt be the problem
< 1274721593 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, well I maintain that it is logically the problem
< 1274721621 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ echo -n 'Ă…' | od -tx1
< 1274721622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0000000 c3 85
< 1274721622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ echo -n 'ĂĄ' | od -tx1
< 1274721623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0000000 c3 a5
< 1274721646 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so assuming it treated it as some single-byte encoding... hm
< 1274721651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is ASCII 85?
< 1274721664 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ă…
< 1274721668 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in latin1
< 1274721680 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1274721684 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in utf its invalid
< 1274721685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, and a5?
< 1274721694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so my system is fucked up...
< 1274721694 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'ĂĄ' in latin1
< 1274721703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ locale
< 1274721703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LANG=sv_SE.UTF-8
< 1274721704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wth
< 1274721706 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also invalid in utf
< 1274721711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would it not use that
< 1274721784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, on the other hand, what is c3?
< 1274721793 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno
< 1274721794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is c3 85 valid UTF-8?
< 1274721801 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly
< 1274721818 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would say yes
< 1274721831 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1274721847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that happens to be the multibyte codepoint of ĂĄ then in utf8 presumably
< 1274721852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes sense
< 1274721936 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... I really need ais now :/
< 1274721950 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is this ais?
< 1274721956 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :icecream?
< 1274721964 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants icecream
< 1274721978 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1274722006 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aiscream
< 1274722009 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1274722156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, ais523 in here
< 1274722161 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he is offline atm
< 1274722170 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh!
< 1274722175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I really need his knowledge about something (VHDL to be specific)
< 1274722184 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see :)
< 1274722190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you happen to know VHDL?
< 1274722217 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really, i think it has something to do with a storage format for 3d material, no?
< 1274722225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nop
< 1274722230 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a hardware description language
< 1274722238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :used to program FPGAs and such
< 1274722239 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would have been my second gyess :)
< 1274722277 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've read a bit about it
< 1274722297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was quick: from not having a clue to reading a bit about it ;P
< 1274722321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically I need this in a port map:  foo_vector(32 downto 0) => bar_vector(0 to 32). That is reverse the vector for one component instance (but not for the other one) Which is annoying since that code does not compile. And with 32 signals in that vector, doing manual mapping per signal would be rather annoying.
< 1274722329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone know how to do this?
< 1274722334 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a matter of attaching these acronyms to stuff in my grain
< 1274722341 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*brain
< 1274722356 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :knowing the name of somthing is very very different from knowing what something is about
< 1274722413 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION knows lots of stuff he doesnt remember the name of
< 1274722437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm true
< 1274722443 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is also verilog, another HDL
< 1274722454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how do you know it wasn't that which you read something about? ;P
< 1274722472 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because i read about both
< 1274722477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1274722481 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and two more
< 1274722490 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia
< 1274722550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay wtf at the file menu entries in gtkwave...
< 1274722563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"read save file"
< 1274722566 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"write save file"
< 1274722568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"write save file as"
< 1274722580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have absolutely no clue what the first one is
< 1274722602 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably reload?
< 1274722613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it is meant like "read (save file)", but then what the heck does "open" do
< 1274722893 0 :ws!wswieb@akson.sgh.waw.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274723522 0 :nooga!~nooga@c47-238.icpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274723648 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how to check if ray hits pixel? the ray is given by 2d vector pair (o,d) where o is origin and d is a normalised direction adn pixel is given by 2d vector p
< 1274723701 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't figure that out since pixels' coordinates are from Z^2 and vectors are in R^2
< 1274723731 0 :tombom!~tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274723735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, find out if pixel is in the path of the ray
< 1274723742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1274723746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1274723754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good point about the Z^2 vs. R^2
< 1274723767 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;|
< 1274723794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, do the check with an epsilon? Draw the line on a buffer and check if the pixel in question is black (or whatever colour)
< 1274723796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1274723839 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second method sounds better
< 1274723938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, the second one sounds like a bad hack
< 1274723968 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pixels have boundaries, so what you really want is to know the size of the pixel
< 1274724000 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but i've already got buffer together with tested pixels on it
< 1274724004 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then check if the ray intersects any of the lines that make up the pixel
< 1274724009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how do you do ray colliding with box?
< 1274724020 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how :)
< 1274724026 0 :aschueler!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1274724034 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1274724034 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in the case with epsilon, i'd need to find good epsilon... i'm too lazy
< 1274724047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do what Zuu said
< 1274724050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably best
< 1274724066 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1274724146 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe
< 1274724159 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could collide with a small circle instead of square
< 1274724253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be approx
< 1274724258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what is wrong with a square
< 1274724272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could in some cases optimise it to only check two or even one side
< 1274724290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, straight up/down/left/right: only check nearest side
< 1274724297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise only check two nearest ones
< 1274724302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it is speed that you are worried about
< 1274724368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you need to check many pixels against a single ray that would be a win
< 1274724387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the ray would hit the same one or two nearest side(s) for all pixels
< 1274724405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(unless you bounce, then you need to recalculate it for the new bounced ray)
< 1274724517 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um
< 1274724534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I have no idea what you use your rays for
< 1274724542 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not raytracing
< 1274724551 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, that helps.
< 1274724559 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm making a program that will be able to recognize shapes
< 1274724565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh
< 1274724571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I fail to see what you need rays for
< 1274724574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, what helps?
< 1274724576 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: In what context?
< 1274724579 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhm
< 1274724582 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Facetious
< 1274724590 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1274724616 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, are you trying to make it recognise them from a photo, or what?
< 1274724623 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga?
< 1274724642 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it goes like this: i got a shape, i find it's contour
< 1274724652 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and mass centre
< 1274724662 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is this shape stored?
< 1274724672 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A picture, a set of vertices, what?
< 1274724693 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then i fire rays from the centre, check intersections with the contour
< 1274724763 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then i've got an array of distances from the centre, then I treat it with FFT
< 1274724785 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the picture is just a monochromatic bitmap
< 1274724820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, why do you treat it with FFT?
< 1274724821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1274724839 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get something that i will be able to compare with another results
< 1274725058 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because comparing arrays of raw numbers is not too accurate
< 1274725096 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that i need some determinant
< 1274725108 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb
< 1274725117 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274725245 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274725345 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-92-6.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274725754 0 :cheater2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274725829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1274725874 0 :cheater2!~cheater@ip-80-226-193-48.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274727190 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn, I hate going on Lovecraft binges.
< 1274727407 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274727574 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION really wants something to do
< 1274728154 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1274728176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, write hashlife in a HDL of your choice
< 1274728181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is something to do :P
< 1274728190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, a GOL processor would be awesome
< 1274728198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so VHDL or verilog?
< 1274728576 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A processor in Life or one that runs it on a hardware level?
< 1274728595 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also Hashlife uses fancy data structures and pointers and such.
< 1274728609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one on hardware level
< 1274728645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, also sure, but it could still be done in hardware, after all, hashlife runs on advanced hardware
< 1274728655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course that doesn't mean it would be easy
< 1274728707 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd need to emulate a load of stuff.
< 1274728802 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, sure, but that will give you something to do
< 1274728809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will surely last for a few days
< 1274728812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P
< 1274728817 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems pointless.
< 1274728828 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given that I lack anything to fabricate the hardware.
< 1274728835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well... you didn't ask for something pointfull ;P
< 1274728842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes I know that isn't a real word)
< 1274728854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, also there is simulation only
< 1274728870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, okay what about a GOL processor at silicon level. I suggest an 20 nm process
< 1274728875 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SIMULATION ONLY
< 1274728885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(due to insane costs)
< 1274728912 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'd make it simulate a fixed number of cells?
< 1274728932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, a normal 64-bit machine would be limited to a fixed number of cells too
< 1274728935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no difference there
< 1274728949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, of course you will have to pick some upper limit when doing anything in hardware
< 1274728981 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the most obvious way to do it would involve making a component for each cell.
< 1274728984 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, after all, I plan a "mostly synthesisable" befunge93 processor as a summer project
< 1274728999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, yeah nice, concurrent life cpu
< 1274729007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calculating each generation in O(1)
< 1274729010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(time that is)
< 1274729019 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However it's the most impractical.
< 1274729022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, idea: make it networked, so each side of the die can hook up to other copies
< 1274729029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can extend it easily
< 1274729039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by just connecting it to more units at the right connectors
< 1274729058 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... you could have a large board, with a display unit, which could be linked.
< 1274729083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, since you won't have one pin per cell probably, you would need to have some fast connection between the units
< 1274729098 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it ran at a faster speed than the simulation it would be no issue
< 1274729101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still fast enough
< 1274729102 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That should be easy.
< 1274729113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true
< 1274729121 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can just pass an appropriate string of bits for each side.
< 1274729167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, and yeah you should hook it up to some array of display controllers and drive a huge high DPI OLED or whatever
< 1274729174 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just don't do TFT, do something more exotric
< 1274729179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exotic*
< 1274729185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as oled, plasma, quantum dots
< 1274729186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever
< 1274729230 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, with a sufficiently large number of cells, it would pwn even Hashlife for the patterns it could hold.
< 1274729251 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, if it was clocked in GHz it would be insane.
< 1274729268 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I'm not sure.
< 1274729340 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you write hexdecimal values in VHDL?
< 1274729359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, make it async. SOMEHOW
< 1274729362 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hashlife can run 10^12 generations in under a second.
< 1274729362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how
< 1274729378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hash life sucks at highly chaotic patterns
< 1274729382 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah.
< 1274729392 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But Life is never chaotic for long.
< 1274729392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, so this would beat hashlife at those
< 1274729409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, there are some examples in golly for which hashlife has problems not just at the start iirc
< 1274729412 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be a revolution in soup searches.
< 1274729520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, see HashLife/hashlife-oddity1.mc iirc
< 1274729661 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd need billions of cells to see anything interesting in that.
< 1274729689 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, gliders would be hell to manage.
< 1274729690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, sure. But why not build a few GB of SRAM + some logic (which is basically what this would be)
< 1274729705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember you only need one bit per cells
< 1274729707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cell*
< 1274729718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a few GB would be 8 times as many cells
< 1274729726 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you make it "cells outside of bounds are dead", you end up with blocks everwhere.
< 1274729742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, also aren't there wrapping variants of life?
< 1274729749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, on a torus
< 1274729750 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah.
< 1274729762 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Golly irritatingly doesn't support them)
< 1274729768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, if you built it like an old cray machine (that is, curved) this would be easy
< 1274729790 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can have Life on sensible things like tori, Klein bottles and the projective plane.
< 1274729798 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not spheres.
< 1274729873 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And why would you say that you cant have life on spheres?
< 1274729883 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moore neighbourhood doesn't work.
< 1274729892 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its just a matter of wrapping a square plane onto the sphere
< 1274729902 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You end up with cells being adjacent to themselves.
< 1274729913 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1274729916 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1274729920 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1274729927 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think about the fundamental polygon.
< 1274729927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, at the poles or what?
< 1274729933 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, at the poles.
< 1274729945 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the hairy ball theorem comes into it too.
< 1274729957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never heard of that theorem
< 1274729959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does it say?
< 1274729978 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i can easily wrap a checkered square sheet onto a sphere with no two same colored checkers adjacent to each other
< 1274729990 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh?
< 1274730015 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hairy_ball
< 1274730034 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's to do with vector fields on a sphere.
< 1274730042 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. so that pretty much proves the possibility of having life on a sphere
< 1274730045 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There has to be a point where the field is zero.
< 1274730234 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, toroidal is nicer.
< 1274730495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to work out how to convert an x,y coordinate pair to a linear address
< 1274730497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in VHDL that is
< 1274730503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :25x80 is the size
< 1274730520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose that using some power of two for one of the sides will be better
< 1274730529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just ignoring the "spurious" memory
< 1274730636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, any idea?
< 1274730710 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using a multiplication macro?
< 1274730717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1274730721 0 :hiato!~nine@41.56.195.137 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274730744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, I'm trying to find something that would in theory be possible to synthesise
< 1274730797 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :static multiplication should certainly be possible using an FPGA
< 1274730805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes quite
< 1274730808 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so do that
< 1274730828 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to think of a good way to do it, I'm no VHDL expert (yet!)
< 1274730841 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :addr = x * 25 + y
< 1274730857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1274730872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe
< 1274730880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that is nothing like valid VHDL
< 1274730888 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont know valid vhdl
< 1274730889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sure, to_integer() and some other stuff
< 1274730900 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im just giving you the general idea :)
< 1274730908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, well I know that
< 1274730912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is the VHDL specific things...
< 1274730913 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the issue
< 1274731012 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, src/fungespace.vhdl:35:31: no function declarations for operator "*"
< 1274731015 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok...
< 1274731027 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe i told you to use a macro :)
< 1274731043 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1274731050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used it as an operator anyway
< 1274731051 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so meh
< 1274731074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely there should be some sort of standard function for it already
< 1274731082 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1274731161 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did tell you that i read about it :P
< 1274731262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, I looked in there
< 1274731266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there should be a *a
< 1274731269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a *
< 1274731273 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to what I can see
< 1274731274 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1274731280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the data types I'm using
< 1274731284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so something is kind of broken
< 1274731288 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::<
< 1274731424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay got something working, but I suspect it isn't possible to synthesise
< 1274731433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that Isn't the primary issue atm
< 1274731485 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go with microsontrollers, more fun :P
< 1274731498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. I programmed PIC12F629 once
< 1274731510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt I could do befunge at all in that
< 1274731518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, plus FGPAs are more fun
< 1274731522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, custom hardware
< 1274731547 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dont know what befunge is, but im quite certain that that pic can calculate anything you throw at it (with enough memory)
< 1274731579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :befunge is a 2D esolang
< 1274731591 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah a PIC doesn't have enough memory
< 1274731602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least not the ones I worked with
< 1274731611 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just add extra memory :P
< 1274731621 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me looks up that befunge
< 1274731644 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, I would say it is one of the most well known esolangs, third place after brainfuck and intercal
< 1274731652 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, i've seen that language before
< 1274731670 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is not very good with names
< 1274731671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is befunge93 (what I'm doing in VHDL) and befunge98 (unfeasible for me to do in VHDL currently at least)
< 1274731719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, now on to the stack. This will be tricky
< 1274731729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to keep some internal top of stack signal
< 1274731781 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, im no master at fpgas, but considereing how they are intended to work, my guess is that you would practically have to program the fpga to act like a cpu, which itself should be quite a challenge
< 1274731799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for befunge98? yeah
< 1274731805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for befunge93 it would come close
< 1274731808 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for any turing complete language
< 1274731818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, befunge93 is not turing complete
< 1274731822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while befunge98 is
< 1274731823 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not?
< 1274731827 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm
< 1274731832 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me is dissapointed now :/
< 1274731836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :befunge93 has limited fungespace size
< 1274731843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus you can't reach deep into the stack
< 1274731857 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu: Remember, the consensus here is that C isn't Turing complete :-)
< 1274731857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :befunge98 fixes this
< 1274731871 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, when i say turing complete i really mean LBA (ofcource)
< 1274731875 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yes but there is bignum befunge98, thus it is TC
< 1274731895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my efunge (coded in erlang) uses bignums
< 1274731897 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: the language is, the hardware it runs on just restricts this :)
< 1274731910 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu: No, the language isn't, since it requires fixed-size pointers
< 1274731917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, C suffers from the sizeof() issues
< 1274731920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :issue*
< 1274731921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is
< 1274731926 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sizeof(void*) has to be finite
< 1274731933 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesnt make it nont-turing complete
< 1274731937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does
< 1274731941 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you consider file IO
< 1274731943 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it certainly does not
< 1274731946 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is debatable
< 1274731960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, any given C will be non-TC
< 1274731974 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you dont seem to understand what turing complete means then
< 1274731987 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if sizeof(void*) is 8, then it is CHAR_BITS * 8 that is the limit of the address space
< 1274731995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it is 16, well then it is CHAR_BITS * 16
< 1274731996 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not
< 1274731998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on
< 1274732010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, how do you mean
< 1274732017 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its just a matter of encoding of address space
< 1274732033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what on earth do you mean by that
< 1274732046 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using more bytes to represent an address
< 1274732047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't access anything that can't be reached with a void*
< 1274732058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, sure but then you change the void* size
< 1274732062 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofcource you can
< 1274732064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, but it must still be finite
< 1274732077 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats the restriction the hardware sets, not the language
< 1274732078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, the C spec forbids accessing anything outside your pointer size
< 1274732084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically
< 1274732095 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that again is the hardware restriction
< 1274732104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, it is written in the C *spec* though
< 1274732111 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu: All data must have a valid pointer in C.
< 1274732113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes it a spec restriction
< 1274732122 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :consider using the disk to store your data
< 1274732128 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As such, all things must have a valid, unique void* to them.
< 1274732128 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :again finite space
< 1274732139 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finite space will _always_ be your issue
< 1274732144 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, again finite due to seek offset having to be finite
< 1274732146 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least as far as we know today :)
< 1274732156 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what's more, void* must be a size a multiple of the size of a char.
< 1274732164 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the maximum value of a char must be storable in a char.
< 1274732170 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus, a char must be of finite size.
< 1274732171 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in essence, C can certainly model a turing machine
< 1274732178 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus, *C memory is guaranteed to be finite*.
< 1274732187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, a turing machine yes. But not an universal one
< 1274732194 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1274732200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see what pikhq said
< 1274732212 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu: Yes, attaching an infinite tape to C can model a universal Turing machine. However, this is true for many, *many* a finite state machine.
< 1274732228 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any explanation fo C not being turing complete is a flawed explanation
< 1274732238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, you can't attach an infinite tape to C though?
< 1274732250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, is that supposed to make sense even...
< 1274732257 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that wouldnt be a finite state machine then
< 1274732259 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Sure you can. Not all files are indexable.
< 1274732271 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu: It's a finite state machine BECAUSE IT HAS FINITE STATE.
< 1274732271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, it sounds like a religious fanatics kind of point of view.
< 1274732278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :saying that "<Zuu> any explanation fo C not being turing complete is a flawed explanation"
< 1274732288 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: then it coudlnt be turing complete
< 1274732302 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu: AND C HAS FINITE FUCKING STATE.
< 1274732304 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either way you tuirn it you will make it false
< 1274732310 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most finite state machines, *when given infinite state to work with*, are magically Turing-complete.
< 1274732313 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: no the hardware has
< 1274732322 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C is a language
< 1274732329 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu: No, *C is guaranteed by the spec to have finite state*.
< 1274732342 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does not specifiy how large that state is, but it *must be finite*.
< 1274732361 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: because it is pretty much guaranteed that hardware have finite state ;)
< 1274732368 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*And thus C describes a class of finite-state machine*.
< 1274732383 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu: C ITSELF FREAKING DECLARES THAT REGARDLESS OF THE HARDWARE THERE IS FINITE STATE.
< 1274732385 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so really, any language you can make up cam be said to have finite state in some spec.
< 1274732394 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EVEN RUNNING ON AN ACTUAL UTM, IT IS DECLARED TO HAVE FINITE STATE.
< 1274732400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, the problem is not that the hardware is finite (of course it is). The issue is that the spec enforces any implementation to have finite state
< 1274732415 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: and that is very much beside the point
< 1274732415 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not a valid C implementation if you have infinite state
< 1274732418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically
< 1274732425 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, no it is _exactly_ the point here
< 1274732426 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu: No, that IS THE POINT.
< 1274732436 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, then you have argued for nothing
< 1274732439 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The POINT is that C is guaranteed to have finite state *by the C standard*.
< 1274732442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what?
< 1274732461 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arguing that D is not TC under the premide it is not TC is idiotic
< 1274732465 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*C
< 1274732474 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*premise
< 1274732481 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh at spelling
< 1274732497 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu: Arguing that C is not TC under the premise that *the language is declared in such a way that it is not TC* is not merely idiotic, it's the only real way to go about it.
< 1274732513 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Your* premise is "Well, C is declared to have finite state, *but* it's TC."
< 1274732530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah what pikhq said
< 1274732531 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No i msaying that the hardware is the limitation, shich i said right from the start
< 1274732531 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is to say, your premise is about on par with "Well, 1+1 = 2, but 1+1 = fish."
< 1274732545 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which in turn is the reason C can be guaranteed to have finite state
< 1274732550 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu: Irrelevant. C doesn't give a shit about the hardware.
< 1274732557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, sure it is. But also the official C standard forbids C from having an infinite state.
< 1274732571 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C says that your state is finite, even if running on a machine with infinite state.
< 1274732573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not a valid, conforming, C implementation then
< 1274732584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, exactly
< 1274732607 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can, of course, be obnoxiously large, but it must be finite.
< 1274732676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, know any VHDL?
< 1274732688 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Nope.
< 1274732704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then, to anyone who does: it seems that the right way to declare a 32-bit std_logic_vector is: std_logic_vector(4294967296 downto 0) but that seems absurd
< 1274732705 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, give me some hardware with infinite state, and i will write a C program that will act like any universal TC but yet only access a finite set of stats
< 1274732718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, how.
< 1274732722 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a C program that conforms 100% to the spec i might add
< 1274732735 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu: How?
< 1274732776 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By assuming that this finite state is large enough to compute whatever needs to becomputed, otherwise go into an infinite loop
< 1274732801 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu: Minor problem: you are not acting like any universal TC then.
< 1274732814 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, you will get the exact same result ;)
< 1274732818 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are acting like a finite state machine.
< 1274732821 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No you won't.
< 1274732822 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope
< 1274732824 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1274732856 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*It is perfectly possible to just use more memory than your finite state machine has while still halting*.
< 1274732882 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is like implementing 32-bit address space by assuming an 8-bit address space is enough, and if that fails, going into an infinite loop.
< 1274732891 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no the hardware has infinite space, the program will determine if it needs more (finite) memory
< 1274732906 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*But C does not allow that.*
< 1274732920 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you said it jsut have to be finite space, not how much finite space
< 1274732930 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as i explained, i will just assume there is more space
< 1274732934 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*It must be finite and bound.*
< 1274732960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has a crazy idea for how to implement the funge93 stack
< 1274732990 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just to be explicit, this argument ended at the sime you gius mentioned the finite state stuff form the spec
< 1274732994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically... storing the two top values in registers. Memory mapped stack or something...
< 1274733001 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*guys
< 1274733004 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so, every time you run out of memory, you recompile and rerun the program with a larger address space?
< 1274733008 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just became to rediculous by then
< 1274733037 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that is one way to do it
< 1274733037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1274733053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sure what pikhq said works. But then it can be argued to be a different program
< 1274733056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the same one
< 1274733061 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ,no
< 1274733079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, it is the same source, but it was compiled for a different pointer size
< 1274733090 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pointer size still doesnt matter
< 1274733095 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, this is like arguing that an *infinite string of Turing machines with bound, but increasing as you go up the line, tapes* is TC.
< 1274733095 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :While true, you don't have a single TC machine there. You have an infinite string of machines that, in combination, are TC.
< 1274733095 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that is a *weird* computational model.
< 1274733100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is exactly what matters
< 1274733119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, a TC in potentia?
< 1274733132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also #esoteric is _all_ about *weird* computational models
< 1274733136 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that is perfectly fine
< 1274733148 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: If ever time you overrun the tape you move on to the next machine, yes, you've got that sucker TC.
< 1274733152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just it isn't TC currently, but like Just-In-Time-TC
< 1274733159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or TC in potentia
< 1274733165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever term you prefer
< 1274733176 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Equivalent to adding a tape cell each time you hit the end, except *much* less time-efficient.
< 1274733179 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1274733195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, perfectly valid computational model though.
< 1274733200 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite.
< 1274733209 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weird, but entirely valid.
< 1274733217 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are several other ways to achieve UTC though
< 1274733229 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, that C program could even serialise it's own state while waiting for the next pointer size to compile, thus avoiding rerunning the whole thing
< 1274733246 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure it would have to be pointer-size-agnostic
< 1274733250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that isn't much of an issue
< 1274733253 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The easiest way to have TC C is to just add the following functions: read_tape(); write_tape();move_left();move_right();
< 1274733256 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or it could start a sub program to compunicate with
< 1274733262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use json or some horrible shit
< 1274733266 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say, and instance of itself
< 1274733274 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And have those functions deal with an actual tape.
< 1274733275 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still utc
< 1274733285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, ah but that is not part of C. it is POSIX or win32 or whatever
< 1274733289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not the C standard ;P
< 1274733293 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, these amount to *extensions* to C that make it Turing-complete.
< 1274733311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, C itself doesn't even have the concept of directories after all
< 1274733321 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you do realize all your excuses barely apply, right?
< 1274733323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and well system() is defined to be implementation defined basically
< 1274733331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, I think they are very valid
< 1274733332 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is theoretical, not a amtter of some random standard
< 1274733342 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you think wrong :)
< 1274733354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, well if we want to be theoretical about C we have to do it in context of some definition of C
< 1274733358 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is one definition of C
< 1274733363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is called the ISO standard for C
< 1274733376 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are actually many versions of those
< 1274733377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, if you don't accept that then you have to define C some other way
< 1274733391 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, im fine with that definition
< 1274733396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, well okay so which version? K&R? C89/C90? C99?
< 1274733411 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember the posic calls are mostly implemented in C aswell
< 1274733413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they are all equivalent when it comes to this though.
< 1274733419 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the ISO standard for C, C is a finite-state automaton.
< 1274733421 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*posix
< 1274733427 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu: POSIX defines extensions *to* C.
< 1274733434 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesnt amtter
< 1274733440 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spelling again :/
< 1274733444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1274733459 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it does. It's not C, it's C + POSIX.
< 1274733461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does it not matter?
< 1274733468 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, wait what?
< 1274733473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure if we discuss C + POSIX...
< 1274733475 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, i have far more insterresting stuff to do than tell about ways to use C in a UTC way
< 1274733488 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, are you joking? How could C merely be a finite-state automaton?
< 1274733499 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: C is mandated to have finite state.
< 1274733506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__, it is true. This was debated for great length in logs
< 1274733509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a number of times
< 1274733518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was doubtful at first too
< 1274733521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I went to read the spec
< 1274733523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah it is true
< 1274733530 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, nwo you dont have to debate it any more :)
< 1274733533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any given C implementation must be finite
< 1274733538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is just how it is
< 1274733552 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just like an actual physical turing machine can't exist, or worse?
< 1274733565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, you can always increase it, but you can never get infinite accessible right now.
< 1274733583 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: No, more in the way that Befunge-93 must always have finite state.
< 1274733598 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that C doesn't care what the size *is* so long as it's finite.
< 1274733608 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/
< 1274733629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__, defined in the spec. sizeof(void*) must be finite. CHAR_BITS must be finite. All data must have valid pointers. Thus your address space is at most CHAR_BITS * sizeof(void*) number of bits
< 1274733638 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/CHAR_BITS/CHAR_BIT/
< 1274733642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, right
< 1274733646 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :always misremember that one
< 1274733675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, so in the same way funge98 would be finite then. Except the spec is fuzzy enough that you can get a bignum implementation in if you try hard enough
< 1274733689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it takes a LOT of arguing with people)
< 1274733694 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's possible to define too many variables?
< 1274733701 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the error message for that?
< 1274733707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... not like that
< 1274733713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like possible to malloc too much
< 1274733720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sure you could have too many variables presumably
< 1274733750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__, on a 32-bit machine something like 2 x arrays of 3.9 GB each
< 1274733756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea what would happen
< 1274733763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably the compiler would crash with an ICE
< 1274733769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or your system would swap trash
< 1274733770 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ICE?
< 1274733777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Internal Compiler Error
< 1274733786 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a 64-bit system the limit for this would be _much_ higher
< 1274733804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still finite
< 1274733810 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Pretty sure Funge98 *allows* for a bignum implementation.
< 1274733816 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Barely*.
< 1274733829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well, I had to argue with cpressy about it being fuzzily enough written to allow it
< 1274733839 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah.
< 1274733844 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Bye
< 1274733851 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It has a sizeof, which is specced as allowing to return "really really large, infinity, etc."
< 1274733855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, plus it confuses some programs who have no idea what a cell size of -1 is :P
< 1274733867 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Oh good. :)
< 1274733870 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Of course, it doesn't specify how "infinity" should be represented ;-P
< 1274733879 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1274733892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, Deewiant, yeah I basically declared "infinity" to be equal to -1.
< 1274733929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was the least insane representation I could think of
< 1274733956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it breaks slowdown.b98, which tries to load a program at a random point in the address space and then jump to it
< 1274733956 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about having it be the maximum value of a cell
< 1274733957 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;)
< 1274733969 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__, um.... do you know what a bignum is?
< 1274733976 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, see my ";)"
< 1274733980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1274733999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :	port(tos_in, sos_in: in std_logic_vector(4294967296 downto 0);
< 1274733999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :	     tos_out, sos_out: in std_logic_vector(4294967296 downto 0);
< 1274733999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :	     -- Shifts things one step
< 1274733999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :	     push, pop: in std_logic)
< 1274734001 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how insane
< 1274734004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that for the stack
< 1274734010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of befunge93 in vhdl)
< 1274734012 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, what prevents storing such a large number in a bugnum that it slows down the computer?
< 1274734021 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: Nothing.
< 1274734023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes the stack will be finite due to not being able to avoid it
< 1274734036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__, why would anything?
< 1274734046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure on any given hardware it will be limited
< 1274734051 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The point of bignums is for it to be possible to be obnoxiously large.
< 1274734068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, and on an UTM they could be infinite even
< 1274734076 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed, they could.
< 1274734085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, someone should port erlang to an UTM :P
< 1274734100 0 :augur!~augur@ool-4a5806a9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274734120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course you'd have to rewrite it in another language. Since current implementations are written in C.
< 1274734124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that is not required
< 1274734130 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :old ones were written in prolog iirc
< 1274734146 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(way before erlang went open source)
< 1274734427 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am back.
< 1274734482 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: For the Life thing, would it be better to have a hugely parallel collection of cells, or to have a central CPU which evolves some memory?
< 1274734524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, How do you mean with the latter
< 1274734539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, basically a dedicated CPU with some microcode + a lot of SRAM?
< 1274734544 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah.
< 1274734560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well, both are interesting IMO
< 1274734560 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O god I comitted
< 1274734564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure which is best
< 1274734570 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o god I committed RAS sydrome.
< 1274734585 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, want a list of some open source ASIC design tools?
< 1274734586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P
< 1274734596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you plan the VHDL thing still
< 1274734597 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The RAM one seems like it's more easily extensible.
< 1274734608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well, ever heard of the transputer?
< 1274734610 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it lacks the elegance of the parallel one.
< 1274734653 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like parallelity.
< 1274734663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, the transputer was basically grid based. Each CPU talked to the ones in the cardinal directions of it iirc
< 1274734663 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I like ease of coding and extensibility.
< 1274734667 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But which is better?
< 1274734673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or was it some other connection scheme, but basically yeah)
< 1274734678 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's only one way to find out:
< 1274734680 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FIGHT!
< 1274734683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, do both?
< 1274734721 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, also do you plan to do it at FPGA level or lower level (silicon)
< 1274734721 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1274734725 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In VHDL is there and instruction for "take component x and stick a tonne of them together in a grid".
< 1274734729 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Neither
< 1274734736 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no resources!
< 1274734739 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, there is some for-generate loop
< 1274734750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, you can _simulate_ both with open source tools
< 1274734760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have access to any FPGAs either currently
< 1274734774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I do at university, but I doubt I fit this into the lab time ;P
< 1274734794 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, I like the "fabricate the grid in a torus" idea.
< 1274734801 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be awesome.
< 1274734809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well yeah you would need a lot of small dies
< 1274734817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you get minimal bend at each
< 1274734824 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but overall, you get some bend
< 1274734855 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ASIC?
< 1274734872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, it was like in the lab recently. Some prankster had taken all the female-female-serial-cable-converters and hooked them up into something that was almost a complete circle
< 1274734879 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1274734880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not quite enough for a complete circle)
< 1274734892 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was it for?
< 1274734894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then leaned the thing against a wall
< 1274734911 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then?
< 1274734919 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, that circle? Someone having fun. The lab assistant laughed quite loudly when he found it
< 1274734924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea who did it
< 1274734950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect some post-grad
< 1274734962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since we don't have unsupervised access to that lab room
< 1274734969 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(lots of expensive stuff there)
< 1274734999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, oh and ASIC = Application Specific Integrated Circuit
< 1274735019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, you get your own in raw silicon. Like the big boys
< 1274735026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah you can simulate it
< 1274735036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it is a pain to do even something like a NAND gate in it
< 1274735044 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is so far out of my league it's approaching it from the other side.
< 1274735064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, THAT IS WHAT SIMULATION IS FOR :(
< 1274735069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are open source tools
< 1274735088 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which HDL?
< 1274735095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :electric (wtf gui but I actually was able to do something in it!), magic (heard it was good, never tried it)
< 1274735102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you draw the silicon stuff there
< 1274735115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc electric can also generate some of it from simple low level VHDL
< 1274735153 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, but yeah better do it at FPGA level. Like, you are more likely to actually pull it off
< 1274735163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for which HDL
< 1274735165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :up to you
< 1274735168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one do you know best?
< 1274735170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, ^
< 1274735183 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally I only know VHDL
< 1274735185 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: gmote
< 1274735187 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@bas5-toronto47-1088893966.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274735187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus I selected it
< 1274735192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 knows both
< 1274735198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I hope to catch him soon
< 1274735199 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know Verilog in the sense that I can vaguely recognise the syntax.
< 1274735202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have a few questions
< 1274735208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, what about VHDL?
< 1274735216 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never used it
< 1274735219 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1274735226 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may have actually installed Verilog...
< 1274735228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, this might be way out of your league then
< 1274735266 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The parallel architecture doesn't seem too bad.
< 1274735274 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well there is the clock issue
< 1274735285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially if you combine multiple ones
< 1274735285 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm?
< 1274735311 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That they will be nigh-unsynchronisable?
< 1274735325 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And combining them seems silly.
< 1274735341 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given that it's extremely unlikely that I'll ever make a single one.
< 1274735346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing it async could be possible... but you would be in different generations everywhere
< 1274735361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you need a lot of tricky stuff to do this in a safe way
< 1274735365 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Synced to the ones adjacent?
< 1274735395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, yeah and that is tricky. I know the theory in a vague kind of way. I know I couldn't pull it off
< 1274735414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I _also_ know ais523 said he gave a talk on it one day before I asked him about it
< 1274735440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, you know, some university made an async MIPS CPU
< 1274735441 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah, why are people never here when I need them?
< 1274735455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it ran at like 130% or something of the equiv sync
< 1274735456 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MIPS?
< 1274735470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and adjusted to temperature to always run the fastest possible
< 1274735475 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274735484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, like SPARC, x86, PPC or whatever
< 1274735489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just another architecture
< 1274735505 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, if you have a router or ADSL modem it is not completely unlikely that it contains a MIPS
< 1274735508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a sync one)
< 1274735525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they seem to be popular in things like that mostly nowdays
< 1274735604 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, what about the CPU-and-SRAM arch?
< 1274735607 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For Life?
< 1274735692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it would be kind of fast
< 1274735696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not nearly as interesting
< 1274735703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also a lot harder
< 1274735709 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't know VHDL well
< 1274735726 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, so I suggest a clocked parallel one
< 1274735732 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah,
< 1274735732 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is certainly easiest
< 1274735738 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it has ELEGANCE.
< 1274735795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, btw can you do hashlife on a torus?
< 1274735813 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see no reason why.
< 1274735826 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not, I mean.
< 1274735832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1274735839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was trying to parse that a few times
< 1274735846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb need to get something quick to eat
< 1274735857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(read: cookie)
< 1274735927 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@79.103.6.164.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274736093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back
< 1274736209 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but hashlife in hardware would be a task that would drive a brave man insane
< 1274736255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, a funge stack is near driving me insane
< 1274736264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could pastebin my current work
< 1274736270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is work in progress
< 1274736273 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With hashlife you would already be raving.
< 1274736329 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274736355 0 :augur!~augur@ool-4a5806a9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274736357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, WIP: http://sprunge.us/VIEd
< 1274736370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah it doesn't currently compile
< 1274736381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just copied what was in my text editor at that moment
< 1274736418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I'm not sure what I'm doing is completely valid VHDL
< 1274736433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it might need a few cycles. which is irritating
< 1274736441 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was hoping to do it at 1 command / cycle
< 1274736448 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't think that will be feasible any more
< 1274736452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like 4 cycles / command
< 1274736522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also that is async (might have to be rewritten to be sync)
< 1274736727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um yeah needs to be sync... sigh
< 1274736911 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how fun. Funge-space is 1 cycle memory. Stack is 2 at least
< 1274736914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :annoying
< 1274737258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :src/stack.vhdl:58:62: conversion not allowed between not closely related types
< 1274737259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1274737323 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That can happen if your family tree is too wide; your types become so unrelated that they don't convert to each other
< 1274737346 0 :sdorand_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: sdorand_
< 1274737507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, XD
< 1274737527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, actually it didn't like unsigned(2047)
< 1274737530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or
< 1274737538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :std_logic_vector(2047)
< 1274737541 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was what I tried first
< 1274737553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just converted it by hand to "11111111111"
< 1274737557 0 :gm|lap!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274738180 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so hardware cell.
< 1274738201 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would need one bit of storage and 8 in- and outputs.
< 1274738606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1274738620 0 :cheater2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1274738621 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, 9
< 1274738631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1274738641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 inputs, 8 outputs, one clock input
< 1274738643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so even more
< 1274738653 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing inout would not be a good idea
< 1274738654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at all
< 1274738666 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inout?
< 1274738670 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, clock too
< 1274738674 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait.
< 1274738685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a signal that can be both in and out, but you can't really use them both ways at once
< 1274738688 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll need a set input too.
< 1274738705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is used for stuff like data bus on memory
< 1274738707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such
< 1274738718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which depending on if you are in read or write mode will act in different ways
< 1274738741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea what verilog calls it
< 1274738752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inout is the vhdl keyword for it
< 1274738806 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the reset...
< 1274738824 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe two would be necessary: set to on, set to off.
< 1274738839 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So 19 inputs in all.
< 1274738842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you mean initial programming
< 1274738846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some kind of bus
< 1274738848 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or resetting.
< 1274738854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, NO NOT 19 inputs
< 1274738858 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT HARDWARE, aah.
< 1274738862 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not _INPUTS_
< 1274738867 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry.
< 1274738871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inputs and outputs are different
< 1274738871 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wirey things.
< 1274738875 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1274738875 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know
< 1274738895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway
< 1274738901 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could write a single cell
< 1274738904 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so for initing.
< 1274738906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(vhdl)
< 1274738916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, you need some way to load the values yes
< 1274738930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I suggest targeted EMP ;P
< 1274738937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just kidding)
< 1274738955 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so can it be done with one input?
< 1274739001 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you need two I think. Since it is basically a latch. Either you could have one set and one reset. Or you could have one "data bit" and one "load data bit"
< 1274739020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly they could be connected in a grid
< 1274739039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would mean three load inputs for each but a lot easier wiring outside
< 1274739056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically you have "row active" and "column active"
< 1274739065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you only read the value if both are true
< 1274739090 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274739105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I could write the needed cell quite quickly. It actually wouldn't need one output in each direction from a VHDL point of view
< 1274739110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one input in each yes
< 1274739251 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION contemplates adding further optimisations to his compiler
< 1274739259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, compiler for what?
< 1274739264 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brainfuck.
< 1274739282 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To what?
< 1274739288 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's currently only barely-optimising, but fairly well setup for a large number of optimisations.
< 1274739299 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: x86 assembly, nasm format, for Linux.
< 1274739343 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Written primarily as an amusing timesink.
< 1274739356 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, written in?
< 1274739363 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I figure if I'm going to amuse myself writing a not-very-useful thing, I might as well do it *well*.
< 1274739367 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: C.
< 1274739371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh
< 1274739373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do it in brainfuck
< 1274739394 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Makes optimisations hard to implement.
< 1274739405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, still possible. After all bf is TC unlike C
< 1274739413 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whereas in C, it's quite simple to write functions over the parse tree.
< 1274739418 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possible, yes, but annoying.
< 1274739462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, remind me of the rules for life
< 1274739462 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Write it for c2bf?
< 1274739463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in
< 1274739467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dead/live counts
< 1274739494 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Dead->live iff 3 live, live->live iff 2 or 3 love.
< 1274739498 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/love/live/
< 1274739500 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Should mostly work.
< 1274739504 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*If* c2bf worked.
< 1274739532 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's fairly normal C99, aside from the tail-call recursion.
< 1274739533 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't have IO, so it probably won't work for you.
< 1274739547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, so we just do a Moore automaton in hardware or some such
< 1274739556 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah.
< 1274739557 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I either use stdin or a file, and stdout.
< 1274739564 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not much work.
< 1274739574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, no dying if too many alive?
< 1274739580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait
< 1274739590 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is some life variant right?
< 1274739591 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks at some of the optimisations done by esotope
< 1274739615 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That's why I said iff.
< 1274739624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1274739625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so lets see
< 1274739636 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything other than the figures I gave and it's dead.
< 1274739641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right
< 1274739693 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders how to get a bit count on a std_logic_vector in vhdl
< 1274739705 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. esotope-bfc needs a Brainfuck backend.
< 1274739707 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(IMO)
< 1274739780 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, it would be hard, since it translates stuff to higher level
< 1274739782 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esotope-bfc's code isn't that clean. :(
< 1274739787 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esotope-bfc?
< 1274739791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, of course it isn't :P
< 1274739801 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Best Brainfuck compiler.
< 1274739817 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Example output: int main(){printf("Hello, world!\n");}
< 1274739959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, meh I can't think of a good way to counts number of set bits in VHDL
< 1274739963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in
< 1274739986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no ways except for creating a counter and checking every bit
< 1274739989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which seems tricky
< 1274740003 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also has very amusing results on hanoi.b
< 1274740011 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's too fast to watch)
< 1274740012 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, oh?
< 1274740018 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Can't you just sum the inputs?
< 1274740028 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's too fast to watch *with valgrind*.
< 1274740040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, you have a fast computer
< 1274740044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me run it on my pentium3
< 1274740048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it won't be that fast then
< 1274740061 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well lets say we have 11100000 and 00000111
< 1274740067 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, now those are different binary numbers
< 1274740092 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would that we were using INTERCAL.
< 1274740099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1274740140 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Where's hanoi.b?
< 1274740147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah found a way
< 1274740157 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Hmm. Probably the Esolang archive.
< 1274740178 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise, look for the "bfcomp" package; it's in there.
< 1274740208 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's written in a somewhat high-level language targetting Brainfuck. Produces some ridiculously inefficient output, though.)
< 1274740279 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just running a dead-code pass on it knocks out 778 characters...
< 1274740361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover,
< 1274740362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :		if cnt = 3 then
< 1274740363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :			next_state <= alive;
< 1274740363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :		elsif present_state = alive and cnt = 2 then
< 1274740363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :			next_state <= alive;
< 1274740363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :		else
< 1274740366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :			next_state <= dead;
< 1274740368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :		end if;
< 1274740370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right?
< 1274740394 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah.
< 1274740410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah vhdl has an annoying syntax.
< 1274740415 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like extremely verbose
< 1274740421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes cmake seem sane
< 1274740425 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ^
< 1274740462 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pascally languages tend to be pointlessly verbose
< 1274740488 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Ick.
< 1274740540 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And VHDL is based on Ada.
< 1274740649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, okay, done but not tested. (syntax check okay, but test bench code for vhdl takes a while)
< 1274740677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, http://sprunge.us/RVPh
< 1274740715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, that would be one life cell
< 1274740717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think
< 1274740726 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, have a look at that code
< 1274740756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might be more readable with VHDL syntax highlighting
< 1274740761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks for such a pastebin
< 1274740819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, pikhq http://pastebin.com/VLBRYUZc
< 1274740841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the custom dead/alive type could have been skipped
< 1274740845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :making the code somewhat more compact
< 1274740855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that would not be good coding style I think ;P
< 1274740857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something
< 1274740889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I heard verilog has saner syntax
< 1274740955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, so each cell needs to be hooked up to clock and the output from each to the 8 cells next to it
< 1274740962 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1274740970 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274740978 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, oh and I forgot to implement load I see
< 1274740982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easy to fix
< 1274741011 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274741078 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1274741190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, okay here is a new one: http://pastebin.com/6AM9MFGD
< 1274741203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it no longer uses a custom data type it is a lot more compact
< 1274741213 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone here played Manufactoria: http://jayisgames.com/games/manufactoria/ ?
< 1274741231 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, we know not games.
< 1274741241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poiuy_qwert, needs flash. I don't have (nor want) flash. What is it about?
< 1274741243 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We know not but code.
< 1274741289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, oh and I have no idea whatsoever if that for loop works
< 1274741301 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its like an esoteric language game
< 1274741305 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION needs to sleep
< 1274741314 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its so fun
< 1274741315 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, would of course need a comprehensive test bench testing all possible inputs in both alive and dead state.
< 1274741324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, cya
< 1274741338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, no CTCP TIME reply?
< 1274741345 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1274741349 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, what?
< 1274741352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I got no reply
< 1274741355 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blargh, must go.
< 1274741363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, what time is it there?
< 1274741621 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1274741954 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1274742427 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274742488 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death
< 1274742544 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell map fromEnum "Ă…"
< 1274742575 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell main = print $ map fromEnum "Ă…"
< 1274742577 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[197]
< 1274742593 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1274742682 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell main = putStrLn . map toEnum $ map fromEnum "Ă…"
< 1274742684 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ĺ
< 1274742728 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: That's a single Unicode codepoint, it just happens to be a UTF-8 character. And Char stores codepoints.  :)
< 1274742728 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh EgoBot converts from utf-8 on input but not to it on output
< 1274742785 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yes but until recently haskell I/O used Latin-1, not UTF-8
< 1274742795 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh, right.
< 1274742795 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm what version of ghc is EgoBot using
< 1274742804 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Latin-1 must die.
< 1274742824 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the worst thing is that EgoBot now converts from utf-8 on input, but not to it on output
< 1274742843 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell :version
< 1274742844 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unknown command ':version'
< 1274742852 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell :?
< 1274742854 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Commands available from the prompt:
< 1274742924 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell :show
< 1274742926 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :syntax:  :show [args|prog|prompt|editor|stop|modules|bindings|breaks|context]
< 1274742994 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1274743018 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever
< 1274744029 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait ghc reads _code_ as utf-8 of course
< 1274744054 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help
< 1274744062 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
< 1274744069 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er
< 1274744072 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help
< 1274744072 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help <command>.
< 1274744080 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help userinterps
< 1274744080 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :userinterps: Users can add interpreters written in any of the languages in !help languages. See !help addinterp, delinterp, show | !userinterps. List interpreters added with !addinterp.
< 1274744142 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp cp haskell main=interact$show.map fromEnum
< 1274744142 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter cp installed.
< 1274744147 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!cp Ă…
< 1274744150 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[195,133,10]
< 1274744208 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!cp Ă… Ă„ Ă– ĂĄ Ă¤ Ă¶
< 1274744211 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[195,133,32,195,132,32,195,150,32,195,165,32,195,164,32,195,182,10]
< 1274744282 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!delinterp cp
< 1274744283 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter cp deleted.
< 1274744472 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274744644 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp bytes haskell main=interact$show.map fromEnum
< 1274744644 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter bytes installed.
< 1274744672 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274745107 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!show bytes
< 1274745108 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell main=interact$show.map fromEnum
< 1274745609 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-243-203-60.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274745925 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274746687 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274747274 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate Pero lo debo aprender para que pueda hablar con mis amigos que hablan alemĂˇn.
< 1274747280 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1274747283 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1274747286 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate Pero lo debo aprender para que pueda hablar con mis amigos que hablan aleman.
< 1274747288 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1274747291 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1274747319 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto es en Pero lo debo aprender para que pueda hablar con mis amigos que hablan aleman.
< 1274747321 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1274747322 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What HackEgo means to say is, "But I learn so she can talk to my friends who speak German."
< 1274747338 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is a pretty bad translation.  The word "debo" just got dropped, and where does that "she" come from?
< 1274747370 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it has to choose a pronoun...
< 1274747413 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pueda is 3rd person isn't it
< 1274747433 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't actually know spanish but can make a guess
< 1274747461 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i guess debo is "i must"
< 1274747481 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1274747491 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and lo was also dropped
< 1274747493 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274747498 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(meaning "it")
< 1274747586 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto es en Que
< 1274747588 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1274747602 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo doesn't do spanish at all, does it
< 1274747624 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto en es What about the reverse?
< 1274747626 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1274747644 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto en no What about the reverse?
< 1274747646 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1274747676 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate Har google skiftet format igjen?
< 1274747677 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1274747684 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it would appear
< 1274747692 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto no en Har google skiftet format igjen?
< 1274747694 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1274747718 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: it would appear `translate may have broken completely?
< 1274747754 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto en de Are they all broken?
< 1274747756 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1274747774 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`which translatefromto
< 1274747775 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/tmp/hackenv.26530/bin/translatefromto
< 1274749785 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274749817 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274749904 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1274750201 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274750624 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274750704 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1274750951 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Don't tell me, FIX IT!
< 1274750981 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PHHHHPHHHHT
< 1274751215 0 :augur!~augur@ool-4a5806a9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274752696 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1274753643 0 :ws!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: values of \016B\017 will give rise to dom!
< 1274754432 0 :ec!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :HARPOON
< 1274754649 0 :HARPOON!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :HARPIE
< 1274754677 0 :HARPIE!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :harpfork
< 1274754694 0 :harpfork!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :elliottcable
< 1274754808 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliottcable: Even #esoteric?
< 1274754818 0 :elliottcable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, even #esoteric ;_;
< 1274754825 0 :elliottcable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :##MacOSX is my social channel of choice nowaadys
< 1274754827 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alas.
< 1274754839 0 :elliottcable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though Iâ€™ve a new language for you all to discuss, soon enough
< 1274754886 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :pikhq
< 1274755011 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1274755050 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1274755103 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How far do companies typically cyberstalk their employees?
< 1274755122 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To the VERY BRINK OF DEATH
< 1274755146 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I mention on my resume some of the projects I've worked on, they may trace that to the name "Sgeo", and from there to the fact that I'm an atheist. Legally, they can't not hire me for that, but if I don't know that that's the reason...
< 1274755186 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What sort of shitty field are you looking for jobs in that that would be a hinderance?
< 1274755225 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no no, they won't hire you because you're _paranoid_.  you see, they hate paranoid people.
< 1274755242 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION whistles innocently
< 1274755248 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thumbs-ups to that :P
< 1274755267 0 :Zuu!zuu@0x55529f1b.adsl.cybercity.dk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274755267 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host
< 1274755268 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274755280 0 :elliottcable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuuuuuuuuu!
< 1274755311 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the gatekeepe
< 1274755367 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Most companies are absolutely *lazy* about such things.
< 1274755421 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't expect them to do much more than call a reference or two.
< 1274755461 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah they never call your values
< 1274755471 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, the odds of not being hired for being atheist are fairly low in any not-completely-shitty field.
< 1274755517 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*There exist atheist priests for goodness sake*. (I'll grant that they're with the Unitarian Universalists, so this *isn't* a contradiction in terms, but still.)
< 1274755532 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1274755853 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://enphilistor.50megs.com/irtc.htm SQUEE
< 1274756187 0 :elliottcable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm Iâ€™m ordained
< 1274756190 0 :elliottcable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and fairly agnostic
< 1274756267 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a priest! burn him!
< 1274756277 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait, am i confusing it with witches
< 1274756290 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you could be a wicca priest
< 1274756325 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274756390 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: You burn witches, you build bridges out of priests.
< 1274756405 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah.
< 1274756465 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"On the Friday after Ash Wednesday Pope Benedict XVI addressed the priests of his diocese and referred to the priest as a bridge and mediator ...
< 1274756466 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you burn the bridges made of Wiccan priests.
< 1274756482 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :naturally.
< 1274756661 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-243-203-60.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274757701 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274757813 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1274758339 0 :augur!~augur@ool-4a5806a9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274758614 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have some new material.
< 1274758615 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll give augur's response in advance though: "It's too stylistically different blah blah calculus of styles"
< 1274758644 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1274758776 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274758899 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274758912 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1274759701 0 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-24-19-39-178.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274759794 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1274759819 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274759842 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1274759951 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1274760014 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm.... \o/
< 1274760014 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :       |
< 1274760015 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :      /<
< 1274760738 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does myndzi\ have a \? It makes oerjan's \o/ less effective to me
< 1274760739 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                                           |
< 1274760739 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                                          /´\
< 1274760753 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :myndzi
< 1274760756 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274760757 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alt nick
< 1274760765 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm stress testing my internet sorta
< 1274760773 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but weirdly, i did more torrenting than this the other day and no problems
< 1274760781 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't break the internet!
< 1274760819 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know why the number of connections would matter, but it seems that maybe that is the case
< 1274760825 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's comcast lies about fucking with network traffic
< 1274760837 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but my modem keeps rebooting / losing synch
< 1274760949 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION points out he only saw you disconnect once, anyhow
< 1274760983 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, my ip didn't change and i guess there was not enough data on the pipe for the connection to die
< 1274760988 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've disconnected like 5 times on dalnet
< 1274761001 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the past 20-30 minutes
< 1274761008 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after a 160 hour connect streak
< 1274761020 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it must be something with these torrents
< 1274761026 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1274761034 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's gotta be my link, too, since the cable modem log shows errors and reconnects
< 1274761051 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i was downloading the other day at like 1.5 MB/sec
< 1274761053 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no problems
< 1274761056 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now 500k does it to me?
< 1274761069 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :K i guess
< 1274761105 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually k
< 1274761110 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kB, whatever
< 1274761112 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FU
< 1274761113 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1274761122 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it won't bother me too much if i know what's going on and what settings to use to avoid it
< 1274761126 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both for me and my brother
< 1274761137 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it bothers me that it seems random
< 1274761154 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might depend on how much the neighbors use the net?
< 1274761200 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's my theory whenever the local net here is dog slow, anyhow
< 1274761205 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my speed test was like 660/16000
< 1274761214 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm using a fraction of that
< 1274761227 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's not going slow, it's losing synch and reconnecting or something
< 1274761232 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know what is technically going on, but i'd like to
< 1274761232 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1274761247 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i'm definitely not the expert to ask
< 1274761272 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shrugs helplessly
< 1274761710 0 :sshc_!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274761879 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1274761989 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's Comcast. You really expect them to be anything but full of shit?
< 1274762026 0 :sshc_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1274762039 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no, of course not
< 1274762042 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just pondering is all
< 1274762054 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing that really rankles with me is i left speakeasy for this bullshit :(
< 1274762169 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You left ... speakeasy ... for comcast.
< 1274762171 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are you, an idiot?
< 1274762298 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... *You left Speakeasy*. What are you, an idiot?
< 1274763138 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274763201 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sshc: Join us in making fun of myndzi.
< 1274763396 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/
< 1274763397 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : |
< 1274763397 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : |\
< 1274763401 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^^ For that
< 1274763413 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That too.
< 1274763477 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Inquiry: should I add that 'ADDTO' optimisation that egobfi seems to have to my BF->asm compiler? Though it'd make me have better output, I'm not sure whether or not I should give a damn about that.
< 1274763506 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes
< 1274763509 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes you should :P
< 1274763516 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274763518 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274763526 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hooray, I've been given an excuse to giveadamn.
< 1274763546 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Just out of curiosity, how much of an improvement does that usually make?
< 1274763571 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't really do much benchmarking :P
< 1274763586 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Lame*.
< 1274763722 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madam, this is not a palindrome, but i don't give a damn
< 1274763723 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This was, what, 2005?
< 1274763737 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: *bravo*
< 1274763757 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION bows
< 1274763815 0 :gm|lap!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274763845 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :greasemonkey is sitting on someone's lap.
< 1274763846 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How adorable
< 1274764168 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274764189 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274764220 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, this optimisation looks *ugly* using linked lists.
< 1274764234 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :         && l->head.x.loop->tail->tail->tail->head.x.count == -1
< 1274764239 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An example line.
< 1274764325 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, pikhq, anybody else: Now soliciting opinions on http://codu.org/music/op13/GRegor-op13-mov1-wipp5.ogg (really, only added to the end since wipp 4 .... I have a whole other section to add somewhere, but it doesn't fit yet :P )
< 1274764371 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shall listen when HTTP next
< 1274764425 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: cant right now
< 1274764480 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION imagines a giant HTTP wheel spinning, with HTTP only flowing out of one hole on its edge, and pikhq constantly waiting for the gears to grind the wheel all the way 'round so he can collect some of the precious HTTP.
< 1274764481 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274764493 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically.
< 1274764500 0 :augur!~augur@ool-4a5806a9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274764678 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking I should rewrite this in Haskell; it's starting to look *ugly* in C, and would benefit massively from pattern matching.
< 1274764696 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not to mention not having NULL pointers...
< 1274764704 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you writing?
< 1274764707 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION â™Ą C
< 1274764730 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Brainfuck compiler.
< 1274764744 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_o
< 1274764755 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Optimising!
< 1274764791 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got 5 lines here in C that could be replaced with 1 simple line in Haskell...
< 1274764792 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :case x@(Loop [Move arg1, _, Move arg2]) of arg1 == arg2*-1 ->
< 1274764817 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(IIRC)
< 1274764840 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. Sorry. That's wrong and I SUCK
< 1274765118 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HYPERTEXT TRANSPORT PROTOCOL
< 1274765121 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH HOW I MISSED THEE
< 1274765451 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274765461 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274765570 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274765733 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION listens
< 1274765771 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you ever seen "Uncarrot Tarot"?
< 1274765801 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The majors do not have ranks, but there are metas which trump over the majors
< 1274765811 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are four complete suits and some incomplete suits
< 1274765842 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And when doing fortune readings with them, you are not supposed to shuffle the cards
< 1274765900 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My idea is to make a game where the "Pickle" card can be played as either a major or as the ace of pickles.
< 1274765966 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps if one player leads the four of pickles, you can play this card as the ace, but if you are void of the suit led it can be played as a trump, which will win unless a meta is played.
< 1274766000 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ace of pickles lol
< 1274766026 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to get a regular tarot deck
< 1274766028 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :play Cripple Mr. Onion
< 1274766032 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :playing cards, not mystical fortune telling bs
< 1274766348 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I want to get a regular tarot deck as well
< 1274766417 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But my idea for the Uncarrot Tarot is a game like that, but there is one question, what happens if multiple majors are played to a trick or if multiple metas are played to a trick, who wins? One idea is that they cancel each other out, another idea is the last one played wins the trick.
< 1274766470 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uncarrot Tarot is incompatible with normal tarot decks, however.
< 1274766480 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, augur: Incidentally, I sure love this section that augur doesn't :P
< 1274766489 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did make up a new tarot deck for PySol, and some rulesets  http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/PySol/
< 1274766505 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: :P
< 1274766563 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Bus
< 1274766601 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And for playing Cripple Mr.Onion, I would use the ULTRACARD, but those cards have not been produced yet. I have just written the idea so far. Just treat the blue dots as extra suits.
< 1274766701 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would like your opinion about the cardset I created for PySol. (If you don't have PySol, you can just load the images with ImageMagick display command or Windows Picture And Fax Viewer, or whatever)
< 1274766789 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am unsure where to buy any tarot deck, however, even though I want to buy one. I have seen a lot of tarot readers, however I am unsure if they actually sell any cards.
< 1274766817 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One game played with regular tarot cards is Gnostica, have you heard of it?
< 1274766828 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gnostica also requires Icehouse pieces as well, though.
< 1274767866 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll bet the challenge of the game has something to do with gaining relevant knowledge.
< 1274767963 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of which game, do you mean Gnostica?
< 1274767972 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just look it up if you have a web browser window open
< 1274767987 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just riffing on the name :P
< 1274768031 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much did you bet?
< 1274768058 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'twas a gentlemen's bet.
< 1274768063 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK
< 1274769830 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1274770003 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like the cardset?
< 1274770185 0 :augur!~augur@ool-4a5806a9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274770745 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274771014 0 :tombom!~tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274771327 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274772395 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can it be done in Python to make a code that modifies an existing class?
< 1274772429 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PySol has one broken game "Le Grande Teton" and I want to fix it
< 1274772558 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, to some extent
< 1274772568 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not as syntactically easily as, say, Ruby
< 1274772686 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you write a code to change an existing class, then?
< 1274772720 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, to change a function, um, hold on
< 1274772842 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ideone.com/6Neq2
< 1274772849 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't actually expecting c1.a() to do that
< 1274772890 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK
< 1274772944 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Non-new-style-classes do the same thing
< 1274772950 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is Python 2.something BTW
< 1274773114 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I will try to see if it is fixed
< 1274773215 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't fixed
< 1274773235 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now it moved a XVI onto a 4 (which is certainly wrong)
< 1274773272 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It didn't fix it
< 1274773289 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, I might have made a mistake
< 1274773381 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it is still broken!
< 1274773411 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it calls the function BEFORE you reassign, it won't work
< 1274773447 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't call the function before reassign
< 1274773595 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, I think I made another mistake
< 1274773749 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PySol loads slowly
< 1274773828 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274773858 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is fixed now!
< 1274773922 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I put the fixed file available http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/PySol/
< 1274774026 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274774132 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This game is too much easy, however.
< 1274774151 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps add some rules having to do with suits?
< 1274774399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1274774400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274774576 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One good one is Wicked (like Cruel but with tarot cards)
< 1274774733 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274775767 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274775891 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ilua
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< 1274777756 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1274779950 0 :dbc!~daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274779979 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1274782123 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@ix.ceid.upatras.gr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274783761 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death
< 1274784496 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1274793843 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274793895 0 :ws!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: [BX] Khaled uses BitchX. CTCP TROUT THIS, BITCH!
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< 1274795067 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274795254 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274795287 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can someone opinionated on this tell me what the difference between software and normal patents is?
< 1274795966 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming you didn't mean s/opinionated/informed/
< 1274795972 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as i can tell, nothing
< 1274795989 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're both a waste of money
< 1274797730 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274798200 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: software patents have a much longer timespan relative to the length of time the thing they implement remains useful for, than hardware patents
< 1274798224 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a 50-year-old internal combustion engine might be outmoded nowadays, but it's still potentially useful
< 1274798231 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :50-year-old software is basically useless
< 1274798247 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the idea of patents - to give people a limited monopoly in return for disclosing how the thing works - is subverted
< 1274798262 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially as software patents tend not even to disclose how the things works nowadays
< 1274798270 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :old inventions, the idea was you could reproduce the whole thing from the patent
< 1274798295 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :many modern hardware patents have the same problem, tbh
< 1274798329 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :patents these days are broader so that people are "scared off"
< 1274798340 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but braoder patents tend to be harder to defend
< 1274798369 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if it's too broad, you might end up covering some undesired "prior art"
< 1274798373 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, but attacking a patent is so expensive that unless you're a big company, in practice you can't
< 1274798375 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the problem is primarily one of relative tome limits?
< 1274798376 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if it's a really weak one
< 1274798379 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: IMO, yes
< 1274798379 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or broadness?
< 1274798384 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: your answer was helpful for me as well
< 1274798393 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that seems reasonable.
< 1274798415 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd have nothing against, say, 2-to-3-year software patents
< 1274798448 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially if they came with source code, like hardware patents used to come with blueprints
< 1274798499 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah.
< 1274798902 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274799811 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to Wikipedia, Richard Dawkins is a clown.
< 1274799816 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, an actual clown.
< 1274799825 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Their picture of him is one of a clown
< 1274800476 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly vandalism?
< 1274800486 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :check the history, see when it happened
< 1274800541 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274801360 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait.
< 1274801364 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant Conservapedia.
< 1274801373 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea whatsoever how that happened.
< 1274802387 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274803821 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1274803821 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-12-150.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274803996 0 :Dooglass!~banskany_@208.95.113.245 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274804111 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(re patents) The problem is that your ability to defend a patent has nothing to do with the merit of the patent, and everything to do with how much cash you can throw at the problem.
< 1274804238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh I missed ais
< 1274804239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1274804276 0 :Dooglass!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1274804282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, that is one of the problems
< 1274804319 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another is the length of them as ais said. And what sort of things can be patented is another issue (genes anyone?)
< 1274804365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bb l
< 1274804367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl*
< 1274804814 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1274805154 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274805324 0 :uorygl!~Warrigal@rrcs-70-63-156-144.midsouth.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274805358 0 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1274807068 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
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< 1274807661 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host
< 1274807662 0 :tombom!~tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274807945 0 :Zuu!zuu@0x55529f1b.adsl.cybercity.dk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274807945 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host
< 1274807945 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274808108 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274808504 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523!
< 1274808509 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1274808511 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster wanted to talk to you.
< 1274808521 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he often does
< 1274808526 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it about something I actually know about?
< 1274808548 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it was about VHDL.
< 1274808929 0 :uorygl!~Warrigal@rrcs-70-63-156-144.midsouth.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274809172 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a Phantom_Hoover !
< 1274809183 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is indeed!
< 1274809238 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION throws a lot of phantoms under Phantom_Hoover to make him hoover even better
< 1274809262 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is that not how it works?
< 1274809263 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, other way round.
< 1274809272 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am the phantom of a hoover.
< 1274809277 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not a hoover of phantoms.
< 1274809298 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought you were hoovering on phantoms
< 1274809321 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a water hoover
< 1274809328 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just phantom hoover
< 1274809372 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just silly.
< 1274809374 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, im not really into all the phantom and hoovering stuff :)
< 1274809467 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Where was that Life in VHDL thing again?
< 1274810202 0 :ws!wswieb@akson.sgh.waw.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274810286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, somewhere on a pastebin, check logs
< 1274810312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it was 1) untested (syntax check with ghdl passed but no more testing than that) 2) just one cell
< 1274810318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also ais523!
< 1274810324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I have an issue with a port map
< 1274810341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, in vhdl, basically I have a std_logic_vector of 32 bits that I want to reverse
< 1274810360 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use a for-generate loop to reverse it rather than trying to mess with the numbering
< 1274810362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like: foo(32 downto 0) => bar(0 to 32)
< 1274810372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but that doesn't compile)
< 1274810373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm?
< 1274810393 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because mismatched numbering is a compile error
< 1274810396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how would that work for a single component? There is an exact copy of the same component where it should not be reversed
< 1274810405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which of course works)
< 1274810408 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make a wire-reverse module
< 1274810418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, okay so how do you do this with a for generate as you said? :/
< 1274810422 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, component, not module
< 1274810451 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember the exact syntax (I just get Emacs to do it), but you want 32 iterations, one which connects each wire
< 1274810454 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just use simple arithmetic
< 1274810470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1274810475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, another thing, timing, is the wait construct simulation only?
< 1274810494 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1274810502 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all forms of it, even the infinite loop
< 1274810512 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how do you get the same effect as "wait for rising_edge(clock)" in synthesisable code?
< 1274810512 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are huge restrictions on processes in synthesis
< 1274810519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, not sure that syntax was perfectly correct
< 1274810526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah
< 1274810532 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much all you're allowed is a process that contains nothing but one if statement
< 1274810536 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's conditioned on a rising edge
< 1274810544 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's how you do it
< 1274810572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1274810578 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even more so, it's only synthesisable if you write the statement exactly, not a synonym
< 1274810585 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes the stack a headache
< 1274810588 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :things like writing a comparison backwards defeat synthesisers
< 1274810629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about arrays and unsigned, are those also simulation only?
< 1274810631 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just look up the exact template for it online
< 1274810634 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or use Emacs, it knows it
< 1274810649 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arrays can be synthesised, within reason
< 1274810656 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it basically just makes a multiplexer to access them
< 1274810662 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think any individual array's write-only or read-only
< 1274810664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because trying to map funge space to linear backing memory I can only figure out a solution using a cast to unsigned and then back to std_logic_vector
< 1274810675 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically it's a set of wires and you can choose the nth wire to look at
< 1274810679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah so good thing I made the memory a separate module
< 1274810679 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1274810692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since current implementation is likely simulation only
< 1274810698 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can do unsigned arithmetic on std_logic_vector easily enough
< 1274810754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, std_logic_vector(unsigned(x) * 25 + unsigned(y)); <-- what about that? simulation only?
< 1274810786 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if yes, what is a better solution to map the funge space to linear address
< 1274810821 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: syntax looks muddled, there; you want a variable of type std_logic_vector, not a std_logic_vector itself
< 1274810828 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's actually synthesisable IIRC
< 1274810831 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, isn't that a cast?
< 1274810839 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, but some casts synthesise
< 1274810853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway it is assigned to a signal that is connected to the memory entity
< 1274810869 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really, try reading the standards, they explain what's synthesisable and what isn't
< 1274810877 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't expect me to remember after a couple of years
< 1274810885 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm not sure if they're free online, though)
< 1274810888 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm, IEEE isn't it?
< 1274810912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so I should be able to get it through what university subscribes to
< 1274810917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it is ISO I'm out of luck...
< 1274810962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes it is IEEE
< 1274811003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so another question, how would you do the stack? I was considering an entity that exposes the top two values on stack as "registers" basically, plus a push and a pop signal.
< 1274811012 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but trying to implement it proved hard
< 1274811037 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :array with a pointer into it
< 1274811045 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same way you do a stack in asm
< 1274811049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1274811099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and how would one expose it outwards of the stack entity then?
< 1274811110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is that abstracting too much ;P
< 1274811123 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try not to abstract /too/ much
< 1274811131 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my advice would be to have the TOS available as a signal for anything to read
< 1274811139 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :together with signals to increase and decrease the stack pointer
< 1274811147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how would you do \ and such then?
< 1274811155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would need two cycles wouldn't it?
< 1274811164 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, unless you pipeline
< 1274811182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh... how?
< 1274811199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, could be hard in befunge with p and g
< 1274811209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes
< 1274811218 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the basic idea is you have registers for the top few stack elements, which are normally read and written, and you do the stack updates "in the background" at the same time
< 1274811225 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty complex that way, though
< 1274811230 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you should just take multiple cycles
< 1274811237 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what most early processors did
< 1274811272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also handling stack emtpy would need some special logic, so having TOS just a signal seems a bit tricky. Something need to handle popping and pushing as well. And the logic of stack empty at least
< 1274811292 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stack full handling doesn't have a sensible answer anyway
< 1274811336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, a fixed number of cycles per instruction or variable depending on which instruction?
< 1274811345 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally variable
< 1274811354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right.
< 1274811361 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the contrary, stack empty is really easy
< 1274811371 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you try to decrease the SP when it's at 0 already, just leave it alone and write a 0
< 1274811374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :conclusion: bottom-up-design does not work very well for VHDL
< 1274811547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the TOS/inc/dec thing would need to be extended with some sort of data in? or did you mean TOS to be inout basically? Plus something would have to update it from the array on push and pop, so presumably that would be clocked... hm
< 1274811606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, splitting the stack logic and such over multiple cycles seems pretty complex as well
< 1274811614 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are the esi and edi registers in x86 actually for?
< 1274811623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, aren't they GPR?
< 1274811626 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1274811630 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're pointer registers
< 1274811645 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for use with instructions that automatically update the pointers
< 1274811649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1274811652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, such as?
< 1274811663 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to remember the names
< 1274811668 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I used them with http://esolangs.org/wiki/MiniMAX
< 1274811679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw I'm pretty sure I seen GCC generate code that uses those as GPR
< 1274811680 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, things like MOVSQ
< 1274811683 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*MOVSW
< 1274811693 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what does the SW stand for there?
< 1274811696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Single Word?
< 1274811702 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is (*(short*)di++) = (*(short*)si++)
< 1274811705 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and string word, I think
< 1274811707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1274811718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm is it used with REP or such then?
< 1274811728 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, designed for use with REP
< 1274811735 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's rather nice for asm gold anyway
< 1274811736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1274811738 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*asm golf
< 1274811746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86 is such a pain
< 1274811756 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Couldn't you have an incredibly small interpreter just by making it take x86 machine code and execute it?
< 1274811765 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's cheating
< 1274811788 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose if you want "smallest non-cheating", you could insist that the interp code is non-self-modifying
< 1274811797 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that nothing in the original program's memory space is ever executed
< 1274811802 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw can VHDL express async circuits. I mean that type we discussed some weeks(?) ago? Quasi-something.
< 1274811808 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it can#
< 1274811809 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*can
< 1274811819 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although most synth tools won't synthesise them well
< 1274811821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, can't imagine how to be frank. XD
< 1274811824 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they assume a global clock
< 1274811836 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you'd need cores for the non-delay-insensitive parts
< 1274811869 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would it be feasible to fabricate a circuit on a torus?
< 1274811878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, iirc electric (FOSS VLSI EDA tool) can generate layout schematics from VHDL. Very very very restricted vhdl iirc but still..
< 1274811893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hm nice acronym combo there XD)
< 1274811929 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ASIC fabrication is three-dimensional nowadays anyway
< 1274811943 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and FPGAs probably have crossing wires internally too
< 1274811957 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So yes?
< 1274811997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, depends on size of torus I suspect
< 1274812031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, aren't ASICs still constructed on flat waffers though?
< 1274812041 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're not infinitely thin
< 1274812048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sure
< 1274812050 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Klein bottles?
< 1274812054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :har
< 1274812062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl got to rush, will be back in about 1 hour
< 1274812071 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the longer you expose the ASIC wafer to the doping agent, the deeper the p-type or n-type region goes
< 1274812079 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do it several times, and you get "underground" regions
< 1274812487 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274813035 0 :augur!~augur@ool-4a5806a9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274813349 0 :benuphoenix!~matt@137.125.176.104 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274813496 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1274813596 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274813779 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1274814065 0 :elliottcable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ack
< 1274814113 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ackackack
< 1274814203 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's cheating, there was no syn
< 1274814250 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :syn?
< 1274814268 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/
< 1274814268 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :         |
< 1274814269 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :         |\
< 1274814286 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :            \o/
< 1274814286 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                     |
< 1274814286 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                     |\
< 1274814317 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i'd mock you for not knowing, except i'm looking it up myself
< 1274814379 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DoS attack?
< 1274814406 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmission_Control_Protocol#Connection_establishment
< 1274814426 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently it can be used for DoS though
< 1274814996 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not on Linux. :)
< 1274815030 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm, syn cookies.
< 1274815103 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sockstress
< 1274815261 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ... How can that work? Linux doesn't store any TCP state until the connection starts...
< 1274815277 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Oh. Wait. It actually finishes the connection and then doesn't use it.
< 1274816177 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-34-41.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274816192 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1274816207 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu
< 1274816373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> and the longer you expose the ASIC wafer to the doping agent, the deeper the p-type or n-type region goes <-- aha
< 1274816384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also wtf is up with middle mouse copy and paste
< 1274816389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is broken for me
< 1274816395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a very strange way
< 1274816402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never seen anything like this...
< 1274816430 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: i'd mock you for not knowing, except i'm looking it up myself <-- XD
< 1274816445 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, iirc syncookies are off by default
< 1274816450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :need some sysctl to turn it on
< 1274816462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to it restricting tcp window size or something iirc
< 1274816505 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That's silly.
< 1274816527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well iirc it is encoded in the tcp window size upper bits or something
< 1274816533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot the details
< 1274816548 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, in the timestamps, wasn't it?
< 1274816553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1274816569 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maximum segment size
< 1274816574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SYN_cookies
< 1274816575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1274816587 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it needs to be stored somewhere apparently
< 1274816622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, so yeah it stored in timestamp or somewhere, but it had to store the MMS in it. Unless I misread that page.
< 1274816630 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(bit tired, so quite possible)
< 1274816633 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm.
< 1274816640 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's Towel Day today.
< 1274816653 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, and that iirc meant it couldn't allow the full range of MMS values, only some
< 1274816681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"There are, however, three caveats that take effect when SYN Cookies are in use. First, the server is limited to only 8 unique MSS values, as that's all that can be encoded in 3 bits."
< 1274816683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from that page
< 1274816697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Second, the server must reject all TCP options (such as large windows), because the server discards the SYN queue entry where that information would otherwise be stored."
< 1274816748 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to recall an option to only start using SYN cookies when the SYN queue got filled.
< 1274816761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, that would be a reasonable compromise
< 1274816784 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better to have slightly reduced performance than no performance, after all.
< 1274816792 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1274816820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, also what about SCTP?
< 1274816827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything like syncookies for that?
< 1274816840 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCTP? What's that?
< 1274816853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stream_Control_Transmission_Protocol
< 1274816857 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that.
< 1274816869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, it seems better than TCP when it comes to many things
< 1274816916 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It apparently uses cookies in connection negotiation.
< 1274816928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the API however seems to be a bit more complex to use (at least under linux). Though I haven't actually used it. Just looked at the docs
< 1274816950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be some of the complex stuff was optional
< 1274816956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of it was certainly I think
< 1274816964 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274817475 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION realises that you could still have an email with a bang path
< 1274817566 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had the idea ages ago of a minimal logic language.
< 1274817574 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would that work?
< 1274817625 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Later
< 1274817815 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/o/
< 1274817816 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :         |
< 1274817816 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        /|
< 1274817839 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/o\
< 1274817839 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :         |
< 1274817839 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        /'\
< 1274817849 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is this?
< 1274818993 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The von Neumann replicator looks cool.
< 1274819579 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, god, the Koreas are at it again.
< 1274819779 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you call it "again" if it's the same damned war?
< 1274819814 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know.
< 1274821112 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274821145 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wire crossing problem.
< 1274821172 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A CA using the von Neumann neighbourhood should be representable as a planar graph.
< 1274821179 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this right?
< 1274821319 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/planar/non-planar/
< 1274822142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* pikhq realises that you could still have an email with a bang path <-- really?
< 1274822299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so it isn't copy and paste that is broken, it is middle click in X in general
< 1274822318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm *tries mouse in other computer*
< 1274822364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, definitely not hardware
< 1274822412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well at least not in the mouse, and I find it hard to believe that an usb host controller could break such that only middle click, nothing else, is broken)
< 1274822804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hm remind me. Is it proven or not if wirecrossing is required for TC?
< 1274822808 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://antisocialrap.com/Future_Hop/Downloads/06-H2G2.mp3
< 1274822822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"proven", why the heck does aspell thing that is typoed?
< 1274822848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it correct spelling or not?
< 1274822895 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it depends on the definition of wire-crossing.
< 1274822985 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's correct
< 1274822988 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The strong form appears to be unproven.
< 1274823001 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Oh?
< 1274823019 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes
< 1274823096 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Link? Anything?
< 1274823132 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See any dictionary. (I think you're misunderstanding what I called correct.)
< 1274823162 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh.
< 1274823172 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the WCP remains unsolved?
< 1274823199 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, it just requires that you get email using a not-IP protocol routed through an Internet-accessible host.
< 1274823214 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: AFAIK, yes.
< 1274823265 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so can a von Neumann CA be represented as a non-planar graph?
< 1274823270 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it should be.
< 1274823330 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that not-IP protocol could feasibly even be UUCP *over* IP. :P)
< 1274823801 0 :ws!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ...
< 1274824105 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why, oh why, has the Cthulhu musical not been performed?
< 1274824422 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must find a musical theatre company and threaten them until they do it.
< 1274824510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.com/firefox says near the bottom "It's your Firefox. Do what you want with it. Find an add-on that's perfect for you on Rock Your Firefox.". How very not true. I'm using Namoroka...
< 1274824538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which exists because I'm not allowed to do what I want with firefox)
< 1274824592 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What can't you do?
< 1274824695 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It says that whether or not you're using Firefox.
< 1274824696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, build a firefox binary and distribute it with the official logo and under the name firefox. As a linux distro you have to either use upstream build or non-official branding
< 1274824713 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you meant that.
< 1274824725 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sort of seems reasonable.
< 1274824728 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From an angle.
< 1274824731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, with non official branding it uses the code name of the release. Which happens to be namoroka for me
< 1274824759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, it seems unreasonable to me. Only the mozilla project does this
< 1274824762 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, so that's why FFX3.5 worked weirdly when it was first released.
< 1274824763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no other project that I know of
< 1274824768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, eh?
< 1274824775 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, even if you don't modify the source?
< 1274824780 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, indeed
< 1274824827 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The trademark license is pretty silly.
< 1274824845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, it is just the case of who built it. And linux distros don't like firefox to check for updates to itself, it should be done with package manager there. I'm not sure how ubuntu manages to get the upstream official branding and not have the thing check for binary updates...
< 1274824862 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To use the official branding, you have to do some silly shit to be "authentic Firefox".
< 1274824866 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seems silly.
< 1274824873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm about on ubuntu says "Mozilla Firefox for Ubuntu"
< 1274824877 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Ubuntu complies with the trademark license.
< 1274824881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :canonical - 1.0
< 1274824882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1274824890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, and what does that license require?
< 1274824890 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe someone already attempted to establish an alternative widespread unofficial bradking of the firefox browser?
< 1274824899 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*branding
< 1274824904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ask the upstream to build it for you?
< 1274824911 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. that you coul duse, instead of yet another different branding
< 1274824915 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Limits the kinds of patches you can use.
< 1274824919 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, what? I can't parse you
< 1274824933 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Update your parser :P
< 1274824952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well arch linux hardly ever use anything but upstream patches. Presumably the only thing they do is disable the "search for update" alternative and disable the branding
< 1274824955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes to check
< 1274824957 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A major reason Debian stopped using official branding, for instance, was that it stopped them from backporting security updates.
< 1274824960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, too many typos
< 1274824988 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: They may be just using the codename as a CYA thing.
< 1274824998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, CYA?
< 1274825004 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We follow the trademark license *now*, but there's no guarantee we will in the future"
< 1274825010 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Cover Your Ass.
< 1274825030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, okay they change one default setting too. Make it use the LANG env variable by default
< 1274825058 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, i dont care to repeat myself just to fix a single typo
< 1274825062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, oh and:
< 1274825065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-browser.startup.homepage=http://www.mozilla.org/projects/namoroka/
< 1274825065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+browser.startup.homepage=http://www.google.com/firefox
< 1274825066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1274825120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, other than that it looks completely standard. And wtf at the build system config file. mozconfig contains lines like:
< 1274825125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ac_add_options --prefix=/usr
< 1274825125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ac_add_options --libdir=/usr/lib
< 1274825148 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mozilla's build system is *awful*.
< 1274825170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, but but... ac_add_options? it sounds like autoconf. But autoconf doesn't take options from a file
< 1274825177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS MAKES NO SENSE
< 1274825183 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hehe
< 1274825200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION explodes
< 1274825215 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: See? Awful.
< 1274825249 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it edits the autoconf stuff?
< 1274825259 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. the actual executed stuff.
< 1274825264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh
< 1274825266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no clue
< 1274825275 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MAYBE IT RECOMPILES AUTOCONF TO ITS OWN SOURCE.
< 1274825281 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It all makes sense!
< 1274825288 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mozilla are taking over the workd!
< 1274825295 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/kd/ld/
< 1274825300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway my original point is that that text on http://www.google.com/firefox is absurd when you consider this silly branding issure
< 1274825301 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :issue*
< 1274825317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it seems to be randomly selected *shrug*
< 1274825351 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, pikhq: that file also contains some bash code
< 1274825365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of it makes no sense
< 1274825372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ac_add_options --with-branding=browser/branding/unofficial
< 1274825373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :export BUILD_OFFICIAL=1
< 1274825374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :export MOZILLA_OFFICIAL=1
< 1274825381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, seems to contradict
< 1274825383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh also:
< 1274825387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mk_add_options BUILD_OFFICIAL=1
< 1274825388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mk_add_options MOZILLA_OFFICIAL=1
< 1274825392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shudder*
< 1274825408 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mozilla's source code is, as a whole, awful.
< 1274825410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and this sources another mozconfig file at the top:
< 1274825413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. $topsrcdir/browser/config/mozconfig
< 1274825416 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And possesses multiple garbage collectors.
< 1274825417 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evidently it's written such that only Mozilla coders can use it
< 1274825426 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah definitely bash/shell of some sort
< 1274825445 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, presumably the arch linux package maintainer managed to handle it
< 1274825455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must have been a headache
< 1274825505 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange subject line from spam: "70% off on alcoholics"
< 1274825507 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAIK the people who maintain distros are in fact disembodied brains in jars.
< 1274825518 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Translation flaw.
< 1274825523 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably.
< 1274825527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, maybe
< 1274825556 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brains in jars or translation?
< 1274825564 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess which one I want to talk about.
< 1274825607 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I especially hate how Mozilla likes to bundle individual copies of Gecko with each and every program of theirs.
< 1274825622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, is it part of xulrunner?
< 1274825640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least arch linux builds against an external xulrunner
< 1274825650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it is shared between firefox and thunderbird
< 1274825650 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gecko is the entire rendering engine, including XUL.
< 1274825669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so xul is a subset of gecko?
< 1274825681 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XUL is a language supported by Gecko.
< 1274825689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : eh
< 1274825694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that language do?
< 1274825695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever
< 1274825703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<insert relevant question here>
< 1274825709 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :represent user interface stuff
< 1274825716 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XUL describes the UI of a Gecko-engine program.
< 1274825730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1274825734 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Along with Javascript, HTML, and CSS...
< 1274825744 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XULrunner is a thin wrapper around Gecko.
< 1274825783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw what exactly does the SMART attribute Raw_Read_Error_Rate mean?
< 1274825794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to behave in different ways on different disks I had
< 1274825809 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways. Here's how Mozilla does their builds. Firefox has its own Gecko. Thunderbird has its own Gecko. Songbird has its own Gecko. XULrunner has its own Gecko.
< 1274825834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my current disks seems to either do it as some average over a short time and "worst" value never stored (worst == current always)
< 1274825836 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because *libraries* are too hard.
< 1274825859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some other disks seems to do it as a ever-incrementing counter. Slowly yes
< 1274825884 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XML is used for programming now?
< 1274825890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, but yet I have libxul?
< 1274825923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, and firefox is linked against the same libxul as thunderbird is
< 1274825924 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I never said that they statically linked against Gecko.
< 1274825937 0 :MizardX-!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274825939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, XD
< 1274825941 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's because you're using a nonofficial build.
< 1274825953 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One set to just link against the system copy of Gecko.
< 1274825955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, official builds must use separate?
< 1274825963 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1274825973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, even ubuntu official kind of build?
< 1274825978 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1274825980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so that is not just silly. It is stupid
< 1274825996 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As the "shared XUL" thing is not officially supported.
< 1274825999 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: No route to host
< 1274826003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid := silly with all the fun removed
< 1274826025 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MizardX
< 1274826044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, why on earth don't they start doing shared XUL? they could save download bw themselves. And it would take less space
< 1274826052 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274826059 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would it work on a Mac or Windows?
< 1274826076 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, include xul installer with download. Install if not already installed
< 1274826087 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the download size is unaffected.
< 1274826089 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it still saves disk space
< 1274826090 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: They have shared libraries too y'know.
< 1274826095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well it could be download on demand
< 1274826106 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of installers on windows were like that last I looked
< 1274826110 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The Firefox installers are already download on demand.
< 1274826120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as presumably offline install of browser or email app is fairly useless
< 1274826122 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I thought Windows did shared libs crazilu.
< 1274826135 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes, but they still *have* them.
< 1274826143 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, it already uses *.dll iirc
< 1274826168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, there is one possible issue. Depends on if the ABI is stable or not
< 1274826180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for gecko that is)
< 1274826185 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It is *quite* stable.
< 1274826188 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ABI?
< 1274826197 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Association of British Insurers?
< 1274826210 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Binary interface.
< 1274826213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what I meant was, would upgrading system copy when upgrading firefox require recompiling thunderbird as well?
< 1274826223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, application (what pikhq said)
< 1274826246 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Only for 1.x versions *of Gecko*.
< 1274826278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, think API (application programming interface). Now API can be stable while ABI might not be. In that case just recompiling things would work. If API changes you would have to change the code using it as well.
< 1274826284 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which happen quite rarely; there's been 9 such releases since Mozilla 1.0)
< 1274826288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also ABI can be compiler level stuff
< 1274826296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(like calling convention changes)
< 1274826304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that is "kind of" a different type of ABI
< 1274826312 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(3 such releases since *Firefox* 1.0)
< 1274826345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, heh. So where do the updates to pass ACID3 and so go? Wouldn't that at least require update of gecko
< 1274826368 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Those don't break ABI. :)
< 1274826381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, oh you mean 1.x versions break ABI?
< 1274826397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not put that at the major number
< 1274826398 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1274826405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is the major number for breaking API?
< 1274826410 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because no-good-reason.
< 1274826414 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably for breaking API.
< 1274826424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very stable API then
< 1274826434 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which was last done when Netscape Navigator 4.0 was open-sourced, I *think*.
< 1274826439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1274826450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, so a lot of no longer used cruft is still there?
< 1274826469 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you *looked* at Mozilla's code?
< 1274826480 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, no. I heard enough horror stories
< 1274826492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just looking at the build system was bad enough
< 1274826510 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They've still got VRML support in there somewhere.
< 1274826524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want an elegant browser. Lean. Fast. Reasonably good support for various js stuff and such. Oh and open source.
< 1274826528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :webkit?
< 1274826546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, VRML. What the heck was that. It sounds familiar
< 1274826551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also does firefox support it
< 1274826562 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :90s technology for 3D stuff.
< 1274826567 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firefox *might* still support it.
< 1274826584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do they plan a gecko 2 with cleaned up API?
< 1274826601 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For Firefox 4, IIRC.
< 1274826610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1274826618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how far into the future is that?
< 1274826623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the next planned release?
< 1274826628 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firefox 4.
< 1274826633 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, so lets see..
< 1274826651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.0, 2.?, 3.0, 3.1, 3.5, 3.6, 4.0?
< 1274826653 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not counting bug-fix releases against 3.6)
< 1274826654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have I missed something
< 1274826661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure about 3.1
< 1274826672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm pretty sure there was no 3.2, 3.3 or 3.4
< 1274826679 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.0, 1.5, 2.0, 3.0, 3.5, 3.6, 4.0
< 1274826690 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firefox's versioning scheme is all sorts of odd.
< 1274826695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so didn't remember it quite right
< 1274826700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yeah what is the logic
< 1274826721 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely they must think about a reason to number it like that
< 1274826722 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firefox is developed by a bunch of monkeys who can't do much well.
< 1274826737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, so how bad is webkit?
< 1274826746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers konqueror
< 1274826750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a rather nice browser
< 1274826761 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tried Chromium?
< 1274826771 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, not the linux version no
< 1274826775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the windows versions sucks
< 1274826778 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too few options
< 1274826786 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no noscript, adblock and so on iirc
< 1274826791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least not that I found
< 1274826794 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Webkit is an awesome engine.
< 1274826809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :firebug is another nice firefox add-on
< 1274826837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, but yeah any browser lacking noscript and adblock functionality is just out of question
< 1274826876 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The extension support is still a work in progress.
< 1274826883 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is adblock, but it's not perfect
< 1274826893 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is builtin noscript stuff
< 1274826898 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then I mean the basics, noscript: block javascripts/plugins on pages unless allowed explicitly, ability to do temporary exception as well as store between sessions
< 1274826917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adblock: block on domains, regex on urls, a white list feature should exist
< 1274826941 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has had a broken Prefs dialogue on Firefox for ages.
< 1274826953 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure noscript does a lot more, but I'm not very interested in that
< 1274826982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, can it do what I mentioned?
< 1274827001 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't know about the temporary exception stuff
< 1274827003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and which browser were you talking about?
< 1274827005 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chrome
< 1274827021 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah does the linux version have the same features? I have no idea
< 1274827026 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd assume so
< 1274827028 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know
< 1274827048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, also the adblock thing needs to be able to block on all type of urls. Not just images, included javascripts too (how else to get rid of google ads?)
< 1274827061 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and included objects of other types
< 1274827087 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Adblock stuff are addons, don't know much about those
< 1274827106 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't think they actually block anything, they more hide it, iirc
< 1274827114 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION uses Flashblock
< 1274827118 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm not download it at all
< 1274827125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm often on bad wlan
< 1274827147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't want tracking cookies and such
< 1274827182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cookies must be "always ask, dialog should allow: never from this site, always from this site, always but discard at end of session, allow once, deny once"
< 1274827185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is what firefox allows
< 1274827971 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, header spoofs.
< 1274828157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, ?
< 1274828167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At some point my harddrives will fail (of course). I make a prediction about that even: In the current RAID 1 configuration, /dev/sda will fail first.
< 1274828188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm fairly certain about this.
< 1274828260 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1274828295 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? Based on SMART attributes it seems slightly less excellent than /dev/sdb
< 1274828300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :consistently
< 1274828474 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1274828645 0 :Rugxulo!~rugxulo@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274828782 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274828939 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1274829227 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274829528 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is AnMaster here or asleep or ... ?
< 1274830320 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1274830335 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death
< 1274830835 0 :augur!~augur@ool-4a5806a9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274831220 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274831676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, just going to sleep
< 1274831679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have to wake up in 5 hours
< 1274831683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so night really
< 1274831708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, if you want to catch me use /msg and use a bouncer so you stay connected and I can reply :P
< 1274831709 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night
< 1274832103 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274832170 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I figured it was too late there
< 1274832182 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid timezones   :-P
< 1274832479 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Phantom_Hoover> OK, so can a von Neumann CA be represented as a non-planar graph?
< 1274832502 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, the neighborhood graphs for _both_ von Neumann and Moore neighboorhoods are planar.
< 1274832544 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you mean anything else by represented, please specify.  also, please read the logs.
< 1274832566 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er wait
< 1274832573 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not Moore
< 1274832586 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but definitely von Neumann
< 1274832985 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Rugxulo
< 1274833325 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-243-203-60.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274833548 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate Ellas comen unos tostitos.
< 1274833564 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1274834071 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: that lazy bum Gregor told me we should fix `translate ourselves
< 1274834083 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'll show him.  i'll out-lazy him!
< 1274834086 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm bin/translate
< 1274834088 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1274834088 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fixed.
< 1274834098 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Win.
< 1274834107 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate I don't think that makes a difference
< 1274834108 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1274834126 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True.
< 1274834702 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1274835042 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274835895 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-243-203-60.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274835999 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274836035 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274836121 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1274836506 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :pikhq
< 1274837513 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1274837964 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1274838296 0 :Zuu!zuu@0x55529f1b.adsl.cybercity.dk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274838296 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host
< 1274838297 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274838474 0 :bsmntbombdood!~gavin@174-16-196-52.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1274843320 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1274843620 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :javawizard2539
< 1274843624 0 :javawizard2539!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :javawizard
< 1274843626 0 :javawizard!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :jcp
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< 1274845096 0 :augur!~augur@ool-4a5806a9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1274845675 0 :augur!~augur@ool-4a5806a9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274845815 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brussel sprouts are so good omg
< 1274845900 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially with butter, heavy cream or something like that? :->
< 1274846004 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's "Brussel's sprouts"
< 1274846014 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm
< 1274846018 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Minus the apostrophe :P
< 1274846040 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's hard to type Brussels without thinking it's a possessive.
< 1274846102 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no no
< 1274846119 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Easy when you recall that Brussels is a place name.
< 1274846120 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brussels sprouts, broccolo, oil, salt, pepper, baked
< 1274846121 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg
< 1274846182 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to brustle -- to bro rustle, that is, to steal bros from a field as they graze on natty ice
< 1274846227 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"broccolo"?
< 1274846245 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is this strange language you speak, augur?
< 1274846263 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :broccolo, you know, one head of broccoli
< 1274846267 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to mean heads
< 1274846270 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which are broccoli!
< 1274846289 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Broccoli glans
< 1274846335 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(broccoli glans is the head of broccoli :P )
< 1274846369 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bet it is
< 1274846462 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274846631 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274846655 0 :augur!~augur@ool-4a5806a9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1274847757 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274847909 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
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< 1274850258 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1274851072 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very meta, xkcd
< 1274851099 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274851168 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkcdsucks is gonna have a field day
< 1274851198 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought the comic itself was nice
< 1274851209 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the alt text could have been better
< 1274851214 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same.
< 1274851448 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The xkcdsucks for 744 isn't up yet
< 1274851513 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://wikisuperosity.com/index.php?title=Special:RecentChanges Somehow, I don't think I'm going to bother to get involved with this wiki
< 1274851566 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't say O_o
< 1274851924 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274853028 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1274853892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> very meta, xkcd <-- argh, parsing the alt text hurts
< 1274853903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, title=""
< 1274853904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not alt
< 1274853907 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but meh
< 1274854249 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274856987 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274857454 0 :tombom!~tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274858419 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274860273 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
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< 1274863570 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274864115 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274864377 0 :atrapado!~rodrigo@193.144.79.241 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274864456 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone know of an X server that just forwards to another X server, but can have the target server disconnected and another one reattached later?
< 1274864902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, eh, like screen for X?
< 1274864910 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1274864910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or how do you mean
< 1274864917 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly like screen for X
< 1274864917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alas, no
< 1274864933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, have a running xserver + X11vnc or such?
< 1274864942 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's too much work though
< 1274864946 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you mean forward as in, reattach to desktop?
< 1274864959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which vnc won't provide
< 1274864973 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it should run them in the local server
< 1274864984 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I don't know one
< 1274864987 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go code one
< 1274864994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure a lot of people would find it usefuk
< 1274864997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :useful*
< 1274865000 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the toughest bit would be handling reattachment I think
< 1274865001 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I certainly would
< 1274865022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, well, you need to hide deattch/reattach from the programs
< 1274865033 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the program never notices
< 1274865035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since X can't handle that sort of stuff
< 1274865045 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, also opengl would be a pain
< 1274865064 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why?
< 1274865071 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I guess, yeah
< 1274865083 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1274865087 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid X persistent resources
< 1274865087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example: nvidia drivers mmap stuffs iirc
< 1274865089 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually
< 1274865091 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the tricky bit
< 1274865095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X mmaps stuff if local
< 1274865101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shared memory communication
< 1274865108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than socket
< 1274865118 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes this quite hard
< 1274865146 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The local server would have to maintain anything like resources that might get buggered by a server restarting
< 1274865168 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fortunately, an application already has to cope with being moved onto a new screen
< 1274865185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, hm? that is the same X server isn't it?
< 1274865187 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1274865197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that way you don't have to change as much
< 1274865219 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but so things like random "you lose OpenGL" are already accounted for (in theory)
< 1274865243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't lose opengl due to moving between screens do you?
< 1274865243 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1274865262 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they have different cards and one has no drivers, you might
< 1274865267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, as I said, I'm pretty sure X11 uses shm for local clients. And for opengl it would be very slow to use the socket method
< 1274865299 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shm = shared memory?
< 1274865311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1274865324 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I'll need to spoof it into thinking it's nonlocal
< 1274865335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, and that is quite a speed difference
< 1274865336 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if I do in fact do this)
< 1274865358 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :opengl over non-shm is not feasible I suspect
< 1274865375 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: This is mostly intended for network use anyways. OpenGL speed is not a concern
< 1274865377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, of course you could use shm against the client but then socket to the server
< 1274865386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or shm to both
< 1274865394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it depends on how much you are willing to do
< 1274865401 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd have to research the spec more. It's quite possible OpenGL isn't really feasible to implement
< 1274865428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, there are other stuff than opengl that could cause issues
< 1274865429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect
< 1274865432 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I know
< 1274865442 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything that X persists would have to be intercepted by the proxy
< 1274865458 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would have to persist them itself, and establish new copies of them when it connected to a new server
< 1274865459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, what about xinerama?
< 1274865475 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that matters?
< 1274865488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, you would have to forward such info to the client I suspect
< 1274865495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or things could go strange
< 1274865515 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any info that the proxy doesn't need to handle is forwarded directly
< 1274865531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you ever tried a non-xinerama build of firefox on a dual head X server (using nvidia twinview, not multiple screens)?
< 1274865537 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1274865540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had menus appear on the wrong screen
< 1274865550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like file menu showed up on the other monitor from the application window
< 1274865571 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1274865586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, rebuilding with xinerama support fixed it
< 1274865619 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the proxy would retrieve any screen/display/xinerama/whatever info upon connecting to a server, and inform the client about the changes. Anything beyond that is handled by the communication directly between the server and client
< 1274865641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, there are some extensions that could cause issues still
< 1274865654 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, well, those could be handled on a case-by-case
< 1274865661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would you do if client used xrandr for example?
< 1274865674 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forward directly to the server, do not pass go, do not collect $200
< 1274865681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, "X RandR is used to configure which display ports are enabled (e.g. LCD, VGA and DVI), and to configure display modes and properties such as orientation, reflection and DPI."
< 1274865687 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know what it does
< 1274865689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1274865723 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see how it's an issue. The goal is to make the client act as if it's connected the target server, except that the target server might randomly change.
< 1274865782 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if it does, the proxy needs to handle any aspect of that change so that the client, other than possibly noticing a radical change in geometry, can proceed normally
< 1274865782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, yes and that is the issue. You would have to notify it about xrandr changes and such to reset the client's state when you change the "host" server
< 1274865789 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I just explained that
< 1274865805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, and what with all the X11 extensions that could be quite a messy task
< 1274865806 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all geometry info is retrieved when connecting to a new server; clients are informed of the changes
< 1274865815 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after that, geometry communication is server-client
< 1274865851 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a server is disconnected, nothing happens until a new one is connected, so it's like the application was just left idle normally
< 1274865881 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the tricky thing is handling any persistence info, like window IDs
< 1274865886 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or resources or something
< 1274865906 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the proxy needs to create a virtual set of them that the client sees
< 1274865931 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and reestablish them upon connecting
< 1274866003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, what is the app grabs the mouse and hides the pointer
< 1274866010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will that be auto restored on reconnection?
< 1274866018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(say, a game or whatever)
< 1274866033 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not at first, for sure
< 1274866040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, that could confuse the app
< 1274866088 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I've seen it happen with badly-written applications before. The result is an immovable default cursor in the default position; the game's cursor works fine
< 1274866094 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's not horrible
< 1274866101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1274866123 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this occurred when using Debian's virtual terminals to switch away from X and back to it)
< 1274866159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1274866163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"debian's"?
< 1274866177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know that is a linux feature, not specific to debain
< 1274866177 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if other distros have it; I know Debian does
< 1274866178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :debian*
< 1274866181 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1274866185 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't sure on that one
< 1274866187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ctrl-Alt-F*
< 1274866193 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could also imagine a situation where the default cursor is mobile, but the game is still tracking its own cursor. It would also be weird
< 1274866202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, they would have had to patch to kernel for it ;P
< 1274866215 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I wouldn't put them past it.
< 1274866228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1274866258 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyways, I think I'd just see what events X normally passes if it loses screen control like that and replicate them upon a reconnection
< 1274866324 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then let badly-written applications eat cake.
< 1274866345 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... what should this be called... Also, Erlang.
< 1274866366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, what? X11 protocol in erlang?
< 1274866372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shudders
< 1274866384 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erlang's the obvious candidate for this!
< 1274866446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, I would have said that C was
< 1274866460 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for managing tons of connections simultaneously? no thanks
< 1274866462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since then you can use X11 header files for stuff
< 1274866484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, you mean multiple apps per "bouncer"?
< 1274866492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for name. xdtach?
< 1274866495 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, it would be a full server
< 1274866510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is dtach which is like screen but with most features except deattaching and reattaching removed
< 1274866527 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, sounds about right
< 1274866537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, but I can't pronounce xdtach
< 1274866551 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ecks-dee-tatch
< 1274866573 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or XD-tach
< 1274866593 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://dtach.sourceforge.net/ <-- strangely enough this is not a project from the authors of dwm and slock (as far as I know). It would fit right into that category though
< 1274866654 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ideally you could even run a DM through it, but that's another can of worms
< 1274866662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, can't do XD-tach. XD(TM)(R) memory cards(TM)(R)
< 1274866664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P
< 1274866667 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1274866680 0 :augur_!~augur@ool-4a5806a9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274866692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, oh yeah... how do you handle dbus?
< 1274866697 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274866700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, a lot of apps these days use dbus
< 1274866703 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: SILENCE
< 1274866715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, a lot of those wouldn't work correctly then
< 1274866731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, anything like gtk or qt apps would be a pain
< 1274866751 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, simple motif apps or such, no problem I bet
< 1274866794 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274866794 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd probably need a similar daemon that would do the same with dbus
< 1274866817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm how does dbus interact with ssh X11 forwarding?
< 1274866822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt ssh forwards dbus
< 1274866851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, so it might not be required
< 1274866853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who knows
< 1274866871 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you could just run it locally and hope that keeping it disconnected from the target machine wouldn't explode things
< 1274866881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1274866884 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, no, you musn't actually need it
< 1274866895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh?
< 1274866899 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least run it connected
< 1274866916 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think of a non-ssh network X connection
< 1274866922 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could be connecting to /anything/
< 1274866930 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :including a Windows machine
< 1274866943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1274866946 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah probably
< 1274866960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, still what about interacting with window manager
< 1274866985 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, I suspect it might be problematic if you switch from a host with, say, metacity to one with kwin
< 1274866995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even worse, from a "normal" one to a tiling WM
< 1274867004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, tiling WMs open up a new can of worms
< 1274867007 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Not much different than replacing a running WM
< 1274867062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, that can cause buggy behaviour in my experience
< 1274867076 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, it would be slightly easier
< 1274867085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, also, I can't imagine how replacing a non-tiling one with a tiling vm would work well
< 1274867091 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since a reconnection would involve the proxy opening up a new set of windows
< 1274867128 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, in a tiling wm it might be problematic to allocate the correct window sizes
< 1274867140 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the wm's problem
< 1274867166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty sure the X standard suggests it is the problem of the client to fit into the space given by the wm :P
< 1274867180 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, yes
< 1274867196 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is the client's problem to do that
< 1274867210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you said "<coppro> that's the wm's problem"
< 1274867223 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you said "allocate the correct window sizes" which is the wm's problem
< 1274867230 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is the client's problem to fit in them
< 1274867237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, it might give you a smaller size back
< 1274867241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :than what you requested
< 1274867241 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure
< 1274867248 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :happens all the time
< 1274867268 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the proxy could help by forcibly resizing the window down
< 1274867275 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes sure
< 1274867282 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after that, it's the client's call
< 1274867283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that is more logic
< 1274867292 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the window stuff will be the toughest
< 1274867299 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't use a tiling WM, which is also important
< 1274867332 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus, if this is as ridiculously useful as it seems like it would be, it will become and instant it, I will receive song and praise and volunteer developers
< 1274867338 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*an instant hit
< 1274867361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1274867377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, you think there are enough people interested who know erlang
< 1274867385 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they'll learn!
< 1274867389 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they'll all learn!
< 1274867392 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mwahahaha!
< 1274867397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, also using erlang more or less makes opengl impossible
< 1274867404 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why?
< 1274867421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need very high performance for it probably.
< 1274867421 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just the protocol?
< 1274867426 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus
< 1274867436 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc you need to use shm to get reasonable speed
< 1274867455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure you think about network but most people would probably like to use it locally
< 1274867488 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HIPE if necessary. Shm is a serious cluster if you detach from a local server and move to a remote one.
< 1274867511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HIPE doesn't help that much
< 1274867543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, also the thing could use shm against the clients, and non-shm "upstream"
< 1274867550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and X11 protocol is a mess
< 1274867563 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I realize both of those things.
< 1274867579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus I'm not sure how stable it is. As in, clients being supposed to use the stable APIs of libx11 (or more recently, libxcb iirc)
< 1274867597 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how well defined is the actual protocol
< 1274867598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no clue
< 1274867640 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X is pretty well-defined
< 1274867648 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've read the spec before
< 1274867684 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's got to be stable or else servers which implement the protocol directly would break
< 1274867721 0 :yiyus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see why tiling wms would be a problem, if a client request a fixed size is usually handled as "floating", else it will only see a resize request
< 1274867783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1274867840 0 :yiyus!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least that is how dwm and wmii work, and afaik most of tiling wms are based on them
< 1274867904 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The X core protocol hasn't changed in 5 years, and then probably not by much
< 1274868503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1274868513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will still be a very complex task
< 1274868516 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1274868899 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274868910 0 :Halph!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274868922 0 :Halph!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :coppro
< 1274870184 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274871002 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION stumbled over this code http://okmij.org/ftp/Prolog/QueensProblem.prl
< 1274871024 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while not that much esoteric, would anyone explain to me how permute works?
< 1274871040 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is trying to translate that into a more esoteric language
< 1274871291 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274872322 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274873813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so dbus crashed, then gnome-settings-daemon
< 1274873822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now everything looks strange even after restarting those
< 1274873828 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to restart X
< 1274873837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and: [251808.083600] gnome-settings-[1841]: segfault at 8 ip 00007fab28a5ad12 sp 00007fff642dfcb0 error 4 in libclipboard.so[7fab28a58000+5000]
< 1274873851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how? well I just closed kate....
< 1274873858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure what kate has to do with gnome at all
< 1274873877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also second time it happened, last time the computer was idle when it happened
< 1274873894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it is not easy to reproduce on demand
< 1274874007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah back
< 1274874146 0 :gm|lap!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274874154 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a something
< 1274874180 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :next time you see cpressey, can you tell him that it's possible to get >5 keys in bubble escape 2K, and that, if you do that, you can't win?
< 1274874189 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you will? thanks.\
< 1274874235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gm|lap, haven't seen cpressy for a long time
< 1274874244 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww :/
< 1274874262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gm|lap, and what on earth is bubble escape 2K?
< 1274874273 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: a game he wrote for the C64
< 1274874277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1274874286 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, i don't have a C64 so i just use VICE
< 1274874405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to imagine a language for which qwerty is actually an efficient layout
< 1274874478 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, I don't know enough about how to make efficient layouts to figure that out
< 1274874479 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Topline?
< 1274874487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ?
< 1274874494 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Topline IIRC
< 1274874509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION waits for browser to load
< 1274874528 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even so, though, you'd probably need 6 fingers on each hand
< 1274874531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I meant natural language
< 1274874543 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it doesn't really care about the letter keys, just the punctuation marks
< 1274874559 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: then you probably asked in the wrong channel
< 1274874576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true
< 1274874583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was just general musing
< 1274874596 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274874696 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274874717 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[11:50] <ais523> hmm, a problem I'm working on at University is basically an esolang issue
< 1274874718 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[11:50] [CTCP] Sending CTCP-PING request to ais523.
< 1274874720 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[11:50] <ais523> OTOH, I'd probably get in trouble if I asked here for the answer
< 1274874721 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[11:50] <ais523> so I'll try to solve it first and then tell everyone what it is
< 1274875000 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, I'm bored and slightly mad, I'm going to update Ubuntu to a new distro version unless someone stops me to tell me it's a really bad idea
< 1274875027 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see if it fixes that intermittent problem with sound that I could never reliably reproduce
< 1274875402 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's EVIL, remember?
< 1274875425 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you install it Satan will jump through your monitor and eat your soul!
< 1274875432 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fredfredfredfredfesdfresdresdfredfredfredfredfredred
< 1274875438 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'm going to bed, gnight
< 1274875451 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ilua
< 1274875688 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, too late
< 1274875692 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this computer's a laptop, though
< 1274875696 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so technically doesn't have a monitor
< 1274875710 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I don't believe you
< 1274875865 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It happened to me!
< 1274875886 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if your soul has been eaten, why are you still talking here?
< 1274875982 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would I need a soul to discuss esolangs?
< 1274876051 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How absurd.
< 1274876566 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What on earth is a Kolmogorov machine.
< 1274876599 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it does anything less than teleportation I will be sorely disappointed.
< 1274876849 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah, it's a type of computing machine thing.
< 1274876863 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does teleportation fall under Turing-completeness?
< 1274877079 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Echo...
< 1274877083 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo...
< 1274877257 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong
< 1274877314 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnop
< 1274877457 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :¸
< 1274877481 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can someone else zoom in on that and tell me if it looks like a glider?
< 1274877724 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah, Raymond has commandeered it for himself.
< 1274877731 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I shall have to use the other phase.
< 1274878465 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is a and ¬b universal?
< 1274878582 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's only three pixels with a bit of antialiasing, hard to tell /what/ it looks like
< 1274879321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> [11:50] <ais523> so I'll try to solve it first and then tell everyone what it is <-- figured it out yet?
< 1274879329 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1274879335 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the middle of a distro upgrade atm
< 1274879462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which esolang? or is it general computation theory stuff or such?
< 1274879532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Phantom_Hoover> Â¸ <-- isn't it a . ?
< 1274879534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm no
< 1274879539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but wth is it
< 1274879555 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea.
< 1274879557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Phantom_Hoover> Bah, Raymond has commandeered it for himself. <-- ?
< 1274879569 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The image of the glider.
< 1274879580 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In one of its phases.
< 1274879586 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the other can be mine!
< 1274879588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, eh, that is in unicode?
< 1274879595 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so.
< 1274879606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it looks like two pixels with antialias here
< 1274879620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just look up the unicode codepoint from that char
< 1274879820 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It obviously isn't meant to be a glider.
< 1274879829 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just looks like one in my font.
< 1274880248 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: if you want a bit of fun, https://review.source.android.com/#patch,sidebyside,14699,1,libc/memset.c
< 1274880254 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the sort of diff I thought you would like
< 1274880257 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it requires JS to read
< 1274880271 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort-of worrying that that wasn't caught earlier...
< 1274880340 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, XD
< 1274880357 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, says a lot about how memset's used in practice
< 1274880375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, android has it's own libc?
< 1274880382 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems so
< 1274880387 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has its own pretty much everything
< 1274880390 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except kernel
< 1274880399 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's Linux, but it isn't any of the things that are commonly bundled with Linux
< 1274880401 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also strange it doesn't use something more efficient, considering embedded system and so on
< 1274880410 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not /that/ embedded
< 1274880430 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<petdance> Why are they even doing that as a loop? They should just be calling memset().
< 1274880452 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :way to miss the point
< 1274880455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, XD
< 1274880463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, joke or serious?
< 1274880470 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not clear from context
< 1274880476 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I'm guessing serious
< 1274880582 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's sort of like the source-code to libgcc
< 1274880592 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which defines the implementations of, say, multiplication
< 1274880595 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on systems that don't do it natively
< 1274880615 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it must be a real pain to try to write an efficient multiplication routine in C without accidentally defining it in terms of itself
< 1274881318 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They broke memset?
< 1274881365 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1274881578 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@ix.ceid.upatras.gr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274881821 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, fixed it, but it was broken for ages
< 1274881825 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set to 0 rather than to the argument
< 1274881834 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274881836 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, apparently IE4 could be scripted using Haskell
< 1274881838 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my mind is blown
< 1274881970 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Internet Explorer?
< 1274881982 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The insanity of it fits.
< 1274882034 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, Internet Explorer
< 1274882043 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun thing: When I typed "internet explorer has" into Google for that, the suggestions was "internet explorer has stopped working".
< 1274882050 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IE[0-9]+ seems to be an abbreviation reserved for Internet Explorer nowadays
< 1274882051 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: haha
< 1274882055 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try the same thing with Bing
< 1274882079 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep.
< 1274882084 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the ironing!
< 1274882106 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does Bing say? the same?
< 1274882115 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Phantom_Hoover> OK, so can a von Neumann CA be represented as a non-planar graph?
< 1274882116 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bing was infamous for its autocompletions on "linux"
< 1274882122 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which included "linux microsoft" and "linux windows"
< 1274882136 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the neighborhood graph for von Neumann CAs is planar
< 1274882142 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They seem to have wisened up.
< 1274882148 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Why?
< 1274882175 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can see why it would be for Moore, but not VN.
< 1274882179 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :take a cell, draw a line to all four neighboring cells
< 1274882207 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep.
< 1274882226 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing that for all cells gives no crossing lines
< 1274882227 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Try putting "Windows has" into Bin for a laugh.
< 1274882233 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/Bin/Bing/
< 1274882254 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd need to remove several layers of browser lockdown to use Bing correctly
< 1274882277 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What sort of lockdown?
< 1274882309 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: in that case, i suspect you've switched the definition of moore and von neumann neighborhoods
< 1274882334 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I've confused "planar".
< 1274882343 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh?
< 1274882359 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, planar means no crossed lines, essentially
< 1274882369 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: in Bing's case, mostly against non-static content
< 1274882375 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't get suggestions, just a textbox
< 1274882384 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, I'm not even convinced I get the background image, I haven't used it in a while
< 1274882387 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION checks
< 1274882403 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, it's just really busy and grey
< 1274882429 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I get no suggestions
< 1274882432 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION searches for INTERCAL
< 1274882438 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is my standard query for testing search engines
< 1274882485 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, results better than they used to be, about as good as Google's and worse than Wikia's used to be
< 1274882553 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikia have a search engine?
< 1274882573 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought they just hosted innumerable pop-culture wikis.
< 1274882674 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they used to
< 1274882677 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then gave up
< 1274882679 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to lack of funding
< 1274882686 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was pretty good while it was there, though
< 1274882714 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the sense of "provided good results that were different from Google's"
< 1274882736 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah.
< 1274882738 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe slightly worse than Google's on average, but being different was good as it let you find different pages
< 1274882809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> it must be a real pain to try to write an efficient multiplication routine in C without accidentally defining it in terms of itself <-- that is why it iirc uses a lot of inline asm versions for various arches
< 1274882819 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, whenever it can
< 1274882826 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, it isn't even inline asm
< 1274882833 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it goes in the .md file, in sections reserved for writing asm
< 1274882835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, a lot of it is iirc.
< 1274882838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1274882843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay that is just silly
< 1274882846 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's asm, but not "inline"
< 1274882848 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really
< 1274882854 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the .md file's /meant/ to contain the asm
< 1274882864 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because otherwise, htf could it know what asm instructions to output?
< 1274882870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but isn't that for defining codegen?
< 1274882876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than for writing libgcc
< 1274882885 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, good point
< 1274882895 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be inline asm in libgcc if you wanted it to be an actual function
< 1274882898 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Idea for an esolang: you specify a fitness metric, then the interpreter/compiler evolves a neural network according to it.
< 1274882904 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for things like multiplication, if it's short enough you probably want to inline it
< 1274882909 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then runs it.
< 1274882917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes and then libgcc isn't involved at all afaik
< 1274882920 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1274882923 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would it be?
< 1274882941 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well I thought libgcc was the context: "<ais523> it's sort of like the source-code to libgcc"
< 1274882943 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing either of us said in the conversation leading from that conversation implied libgcc was involved
< 1274882950 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that was the context of a /different/ conversation
< 1274882956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well I was log reading
< 1274882959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and replying to that
< 1274882963 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just quoting a line from an old conversation doesn't necessarily drag in all its context
< 1274882965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you could see from me quoting part of it
< 1274882967 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it's been done, though,
< 1274882981 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: evfunge, but the internet's short on details concerning it
< 1274882993 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be pretty interesting to find a copy of the code involved, or its output
< 1274883131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why would you use bing anyway?
< 1274883139 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are *2* entries for it on Google.
< 1274883151 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm not sure
< 1274883164 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :amusement value, possibly
< 1274883169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1274883172 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or because you like pretty backgrounds
< 1274883178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder when they will rename it next
< 1274883180 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or because it's your default search engine and you don't know how to change
< 1274883191 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :win7 actually has a bing search widget on the start toolbar
< 1274883195 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, taskbar
< 1274883215 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not by default, but I've seen installs that do
< 1274883229 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> or because it's your default search engine and you don't know how to change <-- hm but doesn't IE ask about that during first run?
< 1274883239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"want to get more search engines" or such
< 1274883248 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly, but people are trained to click Cancel
< 1274883252 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or OK
< 1274883255 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or really, any button at random
< 1274883261 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sad
< 1274883274 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's one of the things that makes Windows tech support so hard
< 1274883278 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most people just use what is default.
< 1274883284 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people dismiss dialog boxes out of habit, rather than reading them
< 1274883290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1274883295 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People used Live Search over Google in my old school.
< 1274883310 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it's why Firefox greys out the "OK" button for three seconds on the "do you want to run/install this" confirmation screens
< 1274883324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect as much
< 1274883328 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I doubt it is enough
< 1274883346 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on Linux, it's pretty rare that a dialog box comes up that isn't a) important, or b) asking for information needed to do what the user just asked it to do
< 1274883348 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I *hate* it when people type "google.com" into their address bar.
< 1274883351 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a blessing, really
< 1274883363 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU HAVE A SEARCH BAR IN YOUR BROWSER.
< 1274883363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, now, firefox's "sure you want to continue with invalid ssl cert" is certainly hard to just get through by random clicks
< 1274883370 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, agreed
< 1274883382 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love the way it has two buttons which are both "cancel", and the get-past isn't a button at all
< 1274883383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, do they? Depends on browser
< 1274883386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks in w3m
< 1274883390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nop, no search bar ;P
< 1274883396 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IE, Safari and Firefox and Google have.
< 1274883401 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/Google/Chrome/
< 1274883403 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: w3m doesn't have an address bar either, though
< 1274883403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, two? huh
< 1274883409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well true
< 1274883409 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can type U for a prompt for address
< 1274883411 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that isn't quite the same
< 1274883413 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274883416 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but iirc w3m-mode does
< 1274883418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION checks
< 1274883441 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I think there's one button that takes you to homepage, and another that explains why the site was blocked
< 1274883448 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I wonder what the best way to check is
< 1274883454 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a "test malicious page" for Firefox?
< 1274883475 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks for one
< 1274883490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I know some urls at my university with broken and/or self signed ssl certs
< 1274883490 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort-of like that test file which is not malicious, but is flagged as a virus by all antivirus software
< 1274883494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but since you filter urls anwyay
< 1274883496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug*
< 1274883496 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to existing as a test for antivirus software
< 1274883504 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, I'll try to find one myself
< 1274883510 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :self-signed certs can be easy enough to find
< 1274883523 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, I even have some self-signed files on my local computer
< 1274883531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, plus I don't know if they fixed it. They seem to break it in different ways every now and then
< 1274883549 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange, mozilla.com's taking ages to load
< 1274883552 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and randomly fixing it for a short period
< 1274883582 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's fine for me.
< 1274883595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit slow for me
< 1274883606 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's doing something, it's redirected once already
< 1274883609 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's taken over a minute
< 1274883610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but considering the length of the traceroute... I'm not surpirsed
< 1274883615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21 hops
< 1274883617 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, you're in Sweden, I'm in the UK, ais?
< 1274883621 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm also in the UK
< 1274883642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :took about 20 seconds to load here
< 1274883643 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but unless mozilla.com was on a massively slow nextwork, you can easily do 21 hops in a minute
< 1274883666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also slow in what sense
< 1274883671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :latency?
< 1274883676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bw?
< 1274883683 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if it's latency or throughput
< 1274883689 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the headers seem to have arrived, though
< 1274883693 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm guessing it's throughput
< 1274883703 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, the <title> has shown up, but the rest of the page hasn't
< 1274883711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, could be packet loss, try ping?
< 1274883729 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't, I'm on a network that filters ICMP
< 1274883736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch
< 1274883743 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :traceroutes only go about 3 hops before hitting a firewall
< 1274883745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's evil
< 1274883749 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's strange, as it doesn't seem to filter anything else
< 1274883753 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0% packet loss for me.
< 1274883759 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from possibly port 25
< 1274883779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about non-PING ICMPs?
< 1274883790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, destination unreachable or whatever
< 1274883792 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure even how to generate those
< 1274883805 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably it doesn't filter destination unreachable /replies/
< 1274883806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty sure you can with nmap
< 1274883818 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if I send a destination unreachable into the internet as a whole, the recipient will wonder wtf is going on
< 1274883832 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming they don't just discard it
< 1274883837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, "internet as a whole"? 255.255.255.255?!
< 1274883841 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah, go for it
< 1274883851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that won't get far I can tell youy
< 1274883854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you*
< 1274883855 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that all sane routers refuse to respect the defined semantics of such an address
< 1274883864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly
< 1274883877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that is a good thing
< 1274883891 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still like the concept of having an IP address that means "the entire internet", even if you can't actually use it in practice
< 1274883893 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Internet
< 1274883897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe
< 1274883916 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, stopped loading and tried again, it loaded in less than three seconds
< 1274883931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, few broadcasts tend to get past any routers iirc
< 1274883945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly it only works on the same network segment or whatever the name is
< 1274884155 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, the default for stealing variables in CLC-INTERCAL is to broadcast to the whole Internet in the hope of finding some other running INTERCAL program to steal from
< 1274884162 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes the whole thing rather like Network Headache
< 1274884170 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although ofc you can specify which IP address to steal from
< 1274884171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1274884182 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :running multiple INTERCAL programs on the same address is an exercise for the reader
< 1274884186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, as 4 one-dots?
< 1274884186 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although not really an insurmountable one
< 1274884193 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or whatever the name was?)
< 1274884196 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I can't remember the format
< 1274884204 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably as one twospot
< 1274884206 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so you can't change the port btw?
< 1274884207 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for IPv4
< 1274884213 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the port's specified in a config file
< 1274884219 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1274884229 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well then you can use that to run more than one, no?
< 1274884235 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's cheating!
< 1274884247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, or can't it have different local and remote port?
< 1274884256 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could just have a variable with a program identifier in
< 1274884260 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :leave it permanently ignored
< 1274884268 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just smuggle it to see if you're stealing from the right program
< 1274884273 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1274884283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, another alternative: 127.0.0.2 and so on
< 1274884294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I assume you can configure which IP to bind on
< 1274884307 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's specified in the program
< 1274884315 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, even simpler then
< 1274884320 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, I know the whole of 127/8 is supposed to have the same semantics
< 1274884328 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in practice, doesn't it often work only for 127.0.0.1?
< 1274884335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, think so
< 1274884364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think for windows it is so, and it used to work for other ones in older versions
< 1274884377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot why
< 1274884388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(why they removed it that is)
< 1274884398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :under linux it should work for the whole block
< 1274884407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless your distro does it in a silly way
< 1274884421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1274884429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :          inet addr:127.0.0.1  Mask:255.0.0.0
< 1274884430 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :          inet6 addr: ::1/128 Scope:Host
< 1274884432 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can a neural network be Turing complete?
< 1274884433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm no expert on that
< 1274884455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, why not? If it can somehow grow it's state that is.
< 1274884468 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: only if infinitely large, or has infinite state some other wa
< 1274884468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that I'm any expert on how neural networks work
< 1274884470 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*way
< 1274884475 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, what about my idea.
< 1274884480 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from that, I don't see why it would fail to meet any of the other neural network requirements
< 1274884491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so just add ability to grow at runtime
< 1274884505 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: typical neural networks in computing are incapable of growing
< 1274884528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, sure, but why not add that feature? Then you could add computer cancers to computer viruses in the future ;P
< 1274884535 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can make a function that takes a neural net and evaluates its fitness, then evolve accordingly.
< 1274884540 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fwiw, even human brains stop growing new neurons after a while, although they keep making new connections
< 1274884575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, iirc new ones grow but very slowly? Pretty sure I saw some relatively recent research result mentioned about that somewhere
< 1274884579 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I'm glad that ::1/128 is the only address that's loopback in ipv6
< 1274884583 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: hmm, interesting
< 1274884636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, a bit hazy on the details. But iirc after some certain age it was very very slow, so for "practical purposes" it was "stopped", but not completely
< 1274884637 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc
< 1274884645 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, distro update's now at the stage where Firefox breaks at random
< 1274884654 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :out of all the programs I use, it's the one that least likes being used while being upgraded
< 1274884656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm I seem to have a /64...
< 1274884664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is larger than ipv4 right?
< 1274884667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1274884671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice as large
< 1274884680 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is assigned to my ipv6 tunnel
< 1274884690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is when you think about it, quite absurd
< 1274884837 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's actually over 4 billion times as large
< 1274884849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, twice as many bits though
< 1274884852 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1274884853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was what I thought about
< 1274884864 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like many things.
< 1274884887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I can't imagine what I need this for. It isn't even as if I got ipv6 tunnel sharing to the rest of the LAN to work...
< 1274884904 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They made a format, decided it was too small, then made one so ridiculously huge there's more space than you could possible need.
< 1274884919 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the idea's that you have enough to do for anything you might want to do
< 1274884928 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say, why not give every program running on your computer its own public IP?
< 1274884943 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't strike me as an insane thing to want to do
< 1274884957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I would need 172 ips currently for that
< 1274884965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that includes kernel tasks
< 1274884979 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why use dbus when you can use tcp?
< 1274884989 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, tcp/ip as a whole
< 1274884997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't imagine what use giving [md2_raid1] it's own ip would be
< 1274884998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1274885005 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, sctp clearly
< 1274885032 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why send signals when you can send ICMP packets?
< 1274885093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, because sending custom ICMP needs root
< 1274885103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why else did you think ping was suid root?
< 1274885108 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously this would be in a hypothetical future OS
< 1274885111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1274885127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, there is no clear mapping of SIGTERM and so on
< 1274885129 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus
< 1274885133 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, even with something like Linux, you could just change the rules so that pinging things in the same process group didn't need root
< 1274885147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you want to expose it outwards
< 1274885159 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't, you firewall it
< 1274885165 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you still have it there for uniqueness
< 1274885171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well what if you make a small error in the firewall config
< 1274885176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is easy with linux
< 1274885185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what with netfilter/iptables being basically mad
< 1274885186 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe, if you're doing remote procedure calls or whatever, you could open up a gap in the firewall to send signals back and forth between apps
< 1274885190 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ufw?
< 1274885199 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, dumbed down last I looked
< 1274885209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beyond usefulness
< 1274885220 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really
< 1274885238 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the advanced syntax thing works well enough for all the firewalling I need
< 1274885248 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although IIRC I don't actually have any ports open at all for any reason atm
< 1274885290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1274885331 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Status: active \ Logging: on (low) \ Default: deny (incoming), allow (outgoing)
< 1274885374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1274885385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, maybe it got better since I last looked at it
< 1274885418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I wanted to do rate limiting on new connections to port 22 and couldn't figure out how to. With iptables it was messy but possible
< 1274885445 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, your firewall desires are a lot weirder than mine
< 1274885453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1274885466 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what did you use "the advanced syntax thing" for?
< 1274885484 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifying which IPs were allowed to connect
< 1274885492 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I open a port, I normally open it only to one other computer
< 1274885516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh and of course I want to log strange packets, like those produced by nmap xmas scan
< 1274885524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is in iptables:
< 1274885524 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ufw limit 22/tcp
< 1274885533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOG        tcp  --  anywhere             anywhere            tcp flags:FIN,SYN,RST,PSH,ACK,URG/FIN,SYN,RST,PSH,ACK,URG limit: avg 5/min burst 5 LOG level alert prefix `XMAS:'
< 1274885546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from iptables -L
< 1274885550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit different to enter it
< 1274885556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it also drops it after it logs it)
< 1274885557 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand, ufw doesn't seem to have options to specify what sort of rate-limiting you want
< 1274885559 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just whether you want it or not
< 1274885569 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes that is rate limited to not flood the log
< 1274885611 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, are those the packets with every single option turned on simultaneously?
< 1274885618 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always wondered why you'd want to do that
< 1274885621 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes that is what the xmas scan is
< 1274885632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are some other ones to log as well
< 1274885665 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, so why /do/ people send such packets?
< 1274885694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, man nmap? Because for some OSes it fucks up system/reveals which OS it is/something else
< 1274885700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc that is the common reason
< 1274885720 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have nmap installed, and I'd get in trouble if I tried to
< 1274885763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, huh? is this not your netbook?
< 1274885784 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION needs to go
< 1274885789 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1274885792 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but it's connected to a university network atm
< 1274885796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1274885812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The key advantage to these scan types is that they can sneak through certain non-stateful firewalls and packet filtering routers."
< 1274885814 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, from man page
< 1274885827 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1274885832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is from the section: "-sN; -sF; -sX (TCP NULL, FIN, and Xmas scans)"
< 1274885837 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :computer security is so weird
< 1274885948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what on earth is that front loader out there doing
< 1274885951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf
< 1274886074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm no idea. just driving back and forth a few meters, not doing anything in specific
< 1274886080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I can tell
< 1274887166 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh... Years ago I had firewall rules that dropped all packet flag combos that "should not happen"...
< 1274887421 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274887503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, mine functions more as a simple IDS in that it looks at some specific well known weird ones.
< 1274887539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway my point was that ufw is very limited
< 1274887639 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the valid combos are SYN, SYN+ACK, SYN+ACK+PSH, ACK, ACK+PSH, ACK+URG, ACK+URG+PSH, RST, FIN and FIN+ACK (and maybe some others).
< 1274887680 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does SYN+ACK mean?
< 1274887692 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't the SYN and ACK need different sequence numbers unless you were very lucky?
< 1274887711 0 :marchdown!~marchdown@ppp95-165-16-73.pppoe.spdop.ru JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274887712 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, it is used to signal connection accepted.
< 1274887733 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok
< 1274887745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah what Ilari saifd
< 1274887746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :said*
< 1274887756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is one of the first ones exchanged during a new connection
< 1274887779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot if it was SYN â†’ SYN,ACK â†’ ACK or SYN â†’ ACK â†’ SYN,ACK
< 1274887784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the former I think
< 1274887806 0 :marchdown!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1274887821 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, SYN+ACK+PSH isn't valid (because second packet is not allowed to have payload and PSH impiles payload).
< 1274887865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, what about SYN ACK URG?
< 1274887881 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So SYN+ACK?, ACK+PSH?+URG?, RST and FIN+ACK?
< 1274887903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, can't RST be combined with anything?
< 1274887918 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it can...
< 1274887986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, according to wikipedia there are more flags
< 1274887990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CWR and ECE
< 1274888005 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I ignore them here. They are used by congestion control.
< 1274888062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what flags do tcp6 have?
< 1274888083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION forgot how much changed between ipv4 and ipv6 TCP
< 1274888087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc some stuff did
< 1274888115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes, quite a different header format it seems like
< 1274888243 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, do tcp4 and tcp6 have very different header formats?
< 1274888249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somewhat
< 1274888268 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not very different
< 1274888279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wider tcp length for example
< 1274888284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to allow much larger packages
< 1274888405 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TCP(v4?) header includes: Source port (16 bits), Destination port (16 bits), Sequence number (32 bits), Acknowledgement number (32 bits), data offset (4 bits), flags (8 bits), window (16 bits), checksum (16 bits), urgent pointer (16 bits), options (variable) and padding (variable).
< 1274888463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, didn't you miss packet length there?
< 1274888480 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes that there seem to be no good neural network libraries for Common Lisp
< 1274888482 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that is what is wider. Also ipv6 seems to have a "next header" field
< 1274888484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1274888487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tcp6
< 1274888488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant
< 1274888498 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TCP header does not have packet length. IP header does.
< 1274888500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1274888517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, ah that explains this. It is a combined view of both ip and tcp headers
< 1274888532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl
< 1274888583 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IPv6 next header is equivalent to IPv4 protocol field.
< 1274888790 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, its also used for options.
< 1274888791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1274888896 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose I'll have to bolt a Lisp interface onto a C library, then...
< 1274888939 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1274889095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, for?
< 1274889107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh up there
< 1274889108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1274889114 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember that insane suggestion I made?
< 1274889166 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, so I decided the easiest way to do it would just be to make the source a CL function which takes a neural net and evaluates its fitness.
< 1274889654 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1274889679 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@ix.ceid.upatras.gr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274889932 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the point of public and private in C++?
< 1274889944 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :abstraction
< 1274889954 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it's supposed to encourage good programming practices
< 1274889958 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you mark something private, you can then safely change it from then on
< 1274889961 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without breaking existing code
< 1274890185 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's purely to make sure you don't do something stupid?
< 1274890290 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1274890294 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274890295 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And in libraries, that users don't do anything stupid
< 1274890372 0 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274890401 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION remembers why he likes Lisp
< 1274890437 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I went off it for a while when I couldn't get any interesting libraries to compile.
< 1274890459 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And don't get me started on how stupid asdf is.
< 1274890601 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1274890604 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone know a command line tool to prepend a line number to every line
< 1274890613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in foo | add_line_numbers | bar
< 1274890683 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, upgrade mostly seems to have worked
< 1274890684 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ais523
< 1274890686 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, nl
< 1274890703 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although Konversation is currently interpreting "you have been made channel admin" as "you have been banned"
< 1274890710 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a rather great misinterpretation
< 1274891445 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: cat -n
< 1274891553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hm already found nl
< 1274891567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I have a cat here that doesn't know cat -n
< 1274891570 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I noticed
< 1274891574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a non-GNU cat)
< 1274891576 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yeah, GNU cat only
< 1274891582 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while nl is posix
< 1274891590 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, freebsd cat seems to know cat -n
< 1274891598 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_o
< 1274891627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, the one that didn't was from an old openbsd install
< 1274892224 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, a clowder of cats.
< 1274892777 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone respond to my pun!
< 1274892955 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, Reddit noticed Ursala
< 1274892990 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I didn't notice it was a pun
< 1274892993 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was that bad
< 1274893002 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and still don't get it even after you've pointed it out
< 1274893073 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a play on "cat", the animal, the collective noun for which is "clowder", and "cat", the UNIX utility, of which there are many variants, but for which there is no commonly-accepted collective noun.
< 1274893196 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never heard that collective noun used for the animals before
< 1274893211 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"herd" would make a good one, though, after the well-known simile
< 1274893226 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently it's "clowder".
< 1274893241 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So perhaps the simile should be "like clowdering cats".
< 1274893418 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION puts the window max/min/close buttons back where they were before, then puts the window menu back
< 1274893447 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a) the placement's arbitrary anyway so I may as well have them where I'm used to, b) I'm used to being able to close a window from /both/ top corners
< 1274893450 0 :tombom!~tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274893464 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can't with Ubuntu's new layout
< 1274893562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> heh, Reddit noticed Ursala <--- ?
< 1274893565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a star?
< 1274893567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about it?
< 1274893579 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, the programming language
< 1274893589 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which should be considered ontopic here despite not being deliberately an esolang
< 1274893614 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.basis.uklinux.net/ursala/
< 1274893671 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Deestan>     Another important design goal of Ursala was to discourage "code obfuscation" techniques. This can be done elegantly by making sure that all syntactically valid programs are no more readable than their obfuscated counterparts.
< 1274893682 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reddit criticism can be so scathing sometimes
< 1274893929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1274893942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it isn't much worse than J
< 1274893945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I can see
< 1274893960 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are some interesting ideas in there
< 1274893973 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they're buried under the mess of &pseudopointers~
< 1274894024 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm?
< 1274894046 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you seen the virtual machine it compiles to?
< 1274894071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1274894081 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only looked at some of the examples on there
< 1274894098 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beh, reading about the language itself is much more fun than the examples, which don't make much sense in the abstract
< 1274894182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, "Programs that read this format should be as lenient as possible, accepting anything that looks remotely like a PGM. "
< 1274894189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the PGM file format spec
< 1274894196 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1274894203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it is discussing the ASCII variant of the file format
< 1274894207 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to the binary
< 1274894208 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's that format for?
< 1274894215 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, PGM is an image format
< 1274894228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"pgm - Netpbm grayscale image format "
< 1274894244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was messing with this to generate a map of bad pixels for his camera
< 1274894264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ASCII format is rather easy to parse
< 1274894329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and gimps saves it as one pixel per line. So I can just use curves to hide everything but the hot pixels, save as ASCII pgm, then do: nl curve_hide.pgm | grep -Ev $'\t0$' > foo.txt
< 1274894343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then remove some of the meta data at the start
< 1274894384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then the x values can be fetched as (linenumber - 5) % image_with (or integer division for y coord)
< 1274894395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-5 is to compensate for a few lines of meta data
< 1274894453 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274894506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is that ursala open source?
< 1274894506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1274894510 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1274894513 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the main interp of it is
< 1274894521 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if a programming language can be inherently open source
< 1274894529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah
< 1274894533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what did you say was the issue with it?
< 1274894541 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with ursala?
< 1274894542 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you copyright the spec?
< 1274894542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"&pseudopointers~"?
< 1274894553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I was discussing the implementation there
< 1274894560 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: read the docs, the concept is too complicated to easily describe in less than a few pages, but I'll try
< 1274894561 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or indeed patent it...
< 1274894578 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Ursala's VM, everything is written as just lists
< 1274894585 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which can only contain other lists (and can be empty)
< 1274894589 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so all data structures work like that
< 1274894600 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, you can create a sort of "pointer", like "head of tail of tail of head"
< 1274894607 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to access a particular location in a data structure
< 1274894633 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine that you have more complicated pointers like "both the first and second element of a pair"; that contradicts what I just said, but it's possible in Ursala too
< 1274894645 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it has a crazy syntax for stringing these things together to make complicated accessors
< 1274894657 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks like a load of letters between & and ~, normally
< 1274894669 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, imagine you have something that is completely different from everything I just said
< 1274894673 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's shoehorned into the same syntax
< 1274894676 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a pseudopointer
< 1274894678 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got it?
< 1274894680 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> which can only contain other lists (and can be empty) <-- hm reminds me of lambda calculus in a remote kind of way.
< 1274894691 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not lists there, but everything is functions kind of)
< 1274894706 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, the basic concept is not incredibly insane
< 1274894709 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274894714 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are quite a few interesting thoughts behind the language
< 1274894716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, for being efficient it probably is
< 1274894719 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just enough insane ones that the result is mad
< 1274894732 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also to quote the feature page:
< 1274894735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Exact calculations involving integers and rationals are implemented by purpose written libraries packaged with the compiler. Standard floating point and complex numbers are manipulated natively using the host system's C library routines. Arbitrary precision floating point numbers are handled by the mpfr library, but without need of explicit storage allocation or reclamation at the source level."
< 1274894739 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if everything is a list
< 1274894744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then how does it do the floating point
< 1274894763 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274894766 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, does it store it as some combination of lists or such
< 1274894775 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you try to look at a floating-point number's representation on the fly, it'll decompose it into lists for you
< 1274894788 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and presumably vice versa, if you try to use a list as a floating-point number
< 1274894791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but what is it actually represented as in the VM?
< 1274894805 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know the list representation of a floating-point number off by heart
< 1274894810 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not an expert in Ursala
< 1274894816 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just someone who managed to get almost halfway through the docs
< 1274894824 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which probably means I know more about it than almost anyone else
< 1274894827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> now, you can create a sort of "pointer", like "head of tail of tail of head" <-- caddar ?
< 1274894843 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, actually the idea behind the syntax is the same
< 1274894867 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Lisp caddadadadar sorts of things don't have things like operator precedence and binary operators
< 1274894888 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, on the other hand caddar kind of stuff reads backwards (IMO)
< 1274894890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also wait a second
< 1274894902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pointers having operator precedence?
< 1274894908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what did you say?
< 1274894912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, misread
< 1274894935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, such a concept does sound interesting
< 1274894962 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ok, more fun: instead of (abc), it uses the notation abc3
< 1274894974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is this the VM or the language?
< 1274894975 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't use parens, you use numbers saying how many things to parenthesise
< 1274894977 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the language
< 1274894986 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and you use P rather than 2
< 1274894989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and postfix notation for it?
< 1274894999 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's an effectively-postfix notation
< 1274895005 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is all just the pseudopointers
< 1274895012 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the language has another entirely separate notation for other things
< 1274895016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1274895027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what happens if you use a 2 instead of a P?
< 1274895032 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know
< 1274895049 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you think I'm mad enough to /write/ in this language?
< 1274895056 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll stick to INTERCAL, thank you very much
< 1274895071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, XD
< 1274895085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you mean it is more insane than INTERCAL?
< 1274895096 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INTERCAL is not insane
< 1274895099 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's deliberately strange
< 1274895102 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it has a kind-of logic to it
< 1274895108 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hard to write, but I wouldn't call it insane
< 1274895116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm BANKCAL, needs to be done
< 1274895141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(combining bankstar with INTERCAL)
< 1274895150 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BANCSTAR, actually.
< 1274895150 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, there'd be no point
< 1274895155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, ah right
< 1274895166 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I thought it was capitalised BancSTAR
< 1274895166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, implement INTERCAL in BANCSTAR then ;P
< 1274895170 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I might be wrong on that
< 1274895176 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, there are no docs for BancSTAR anywhere
< 1274895179 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a bit of example code
< 1274895184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh good point
< 1274895187 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with no explanation, so that the person who wrote it didn't get sued
< 1274895200 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would you get sued for that?
< 1274895215 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because BancSTAR is secret and proprietary
< 1274895223 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the person hosting the article about it actually got takedown notices
< 1274895230 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the implementation would be. But hardly the language itself?
< 1274895244 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The example might have been?
< 1274895254 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1274895258 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I guess the language was an in-house trade secret
< 1274895281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't it a third party product they used?
< 1274895288 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a good point
< 1274895297 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, IIRC the language was originally the VM for something else
< 1274895302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1274895306 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the something else was too limited so they started using the lang directly
< 1274895465 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, a GUI generation tool iirc
< 1274895533 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not make OpenSTAR?
< 1274895542 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or EsoSTAR?
< 1274895573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, not enough info about it
< 1274895580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl food
< 1274895589 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We'll make our own language, then.
< 1274895612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, err, see esolang wiki
< 1274895617 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we made a lot of our own :P
< 1274895637 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is indistinguishable from BancSTAR?
< 1274895638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm quite fond of /// (article on esowiki is "slashes" iirc)
< 1274895641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, ah no
< 1274895645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl food really now
< 1274895785 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone know much about shared libraries and GCC?
< 1274895789 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like how to make one?
< 1274896146 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interfacing between CL and C is complex...
< 1274896252 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274896817 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Saliendo
< 1274897002 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~nice@p5B14D2E5.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274897323 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I thought we got http://esolangs.org/wiki//// to work?
< 1274897336 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, apparently not
< 1274897695 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, how do I use .so's from a non-standard directory?
< 1274897744 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's an environment variable you can set, IIRC
< 1274897749 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I've forgotten what it's called
< 1274897751 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster probably knows
< 1274897788 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zsh doesn't give anything.
< 1274897813 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LD_LIBRARY_PATH
< 1274897836 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, thanks Deewiant
< 1274897843 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that replace or add to the standard locations?
< 1274897853 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Add
< 1274897886 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The whole shared library system is strange to me...
< 1274897892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm?
< 1274897904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, what Deewiant said or rpath
< 1274897912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rpath would be at link time of the application
< 1274897920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way no need to use LD_LIBRARY_PATH
< 1274897942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course you can also just make the path a standard path if you wish. /etc/ld.so.conf
< 1274897946 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then ldconfig after
< 1274897953 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might or might not be a good idea
< 1274897960 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, thanks.
< 1274897974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, iirc LD_LIBRARY_PATH prepends to the standard path btw
< 1274898486 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :pikhq
< 1274900349 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Googling "why language x is awful" gives some... interesting results.
< 1274900548 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Why Befungebrainfuck is awful" :P
< 1274900591 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"OH GOD WITH THE TWO DIMENSIONAL NESS AND THE SELFMODIFICATION AND THE TAPE"
< 1274901413 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is it with people complaining about C's type system.
< 1274901422 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It makes perfect sense from a certain angle.
< 1274901433 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: There are many legitimate complaints about it.
< 1274901438 0 :tombom_!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274901442 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, it doesn't go far enough.
< 1274901463 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1274901467 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, obviously you don't expect 1+"hello" to even compile, but it still makes sense.
< 1274901483 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ello"
< 1274901487 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1+"hello" certainly compiles.
< 1274901489 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed.
< 1274901507 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes, but if you were learning C, you wouldn't expect it to.
< 1274901534 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: And then they find out that C strings are syntactic sugar around array literals and it's all peachy.
< 1274901573 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274901582 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed.
< 1274901594 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And array literals are syntactic sugar for pointers.
< 1274901600 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is also importand.
< 1274901606 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/importand/important.
< 1274901697 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway...
< 1274901710 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CFFI is sapping my resolve.
< 1274902163 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha, I have found a Git thing for cl-fann
< 1274903225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Phantom_Hoover> And array literals are syntactic sugar for pointers. <-- not exactly
< 1274903248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :char *foo = "bar";
< 1274903248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vs.
< 1274903252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :char foo[] = "bar";
< 1274903260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite different results in that case
< 1274903283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the former will point to a read only copy of the string literal "bar"
< 1274903299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latter will contain a read write copy
< 1274903340 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The former is not const-correct.
< 1274904076 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274905054 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1274905155 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274906362 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274906516 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274906811 0 :tombom__!tombom@82.11.82.185 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274906908 0 :tombom_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
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< 1274907323 0 :tombom__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1274908554 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1274908915 0 :Zuu!zuu@0x55529f1b.adsl.cybercity.dk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274908915 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host
< 1274908916 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274909115 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274909120 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WtH?
< 1274909142 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What sort of insane client doesn't tell you when you get disconnected due to ping timeouts?
< 1274909198 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274909204 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I now need to work out how cl-fann works.
< 1274909218 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And neither comments nor variable names are in English.
< 1274909307 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274909509 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1274911954 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bahh, I must go.
< 1274912204 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1274912246 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1274912274 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274912768 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Leonidas: did you find out what permute does?
< 1274912937 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@150.140.227.55 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274913965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> AnMaster: The former is not const-correct. <-- true, but it will by default compile without a warning
< 1274913989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :needs more than -Wall -Wextra iirc
< 1274913997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-Wwrite-strings or some such
< 1274914022 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No, it just needs -std=gnu99 or -std=c99. Which makes it so that const exists. :)
< 1274914793 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274914881 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :const exists in C89
< 1274914944 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never mind then.
< 1274914978 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vad constigt
< 1274915098 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274915188 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1274915298 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
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< 1274915468 0 :coppro!~coppro@d75-159-19-254.abhsia.telus.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274915468 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host
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< 1274915637 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1274915774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, -_-
< 1274915778 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night
< 1274915880 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1274915922 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274916451 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death
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< 1274916660 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1274916695 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So much trouble staying connected.
< 1274916828 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :pikhq
< 1274918255 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
< 1274918588 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1274918652 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274918689 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah, i just had some trouble with the prolog implementation.
< 1274918714 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION still fails at translating that to kanren, though.
< 1274918732 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1274918785 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION knows naught of kanren
< 1274919027 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody knows that :) kanren is the obscure brother of prolog, designed for scheme
< 1274919116 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
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< 1274919538 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Later
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< 1274920233 0 :elliottcable!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :HARPOONS
< 1274920450 0 :HARPOONS!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :elliottcable
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< 1274923538 0 :charlls!charlls@166.237.169.72 JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1274924018 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
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< 1274925292 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :pikhq
< 1274926299 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
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< 1274926616 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host
< 1274926617 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274927072 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274927133 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man, this calculus course is silly
< 1274927152 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they explain integration by substitution so horribly, mainly because they don't want to teach it properly :/
< 1274927228 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh dear.
< 1274927325 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If the question were simply \int x^7 dx, the solution would be \frac{x^8}{8}+C. What if the solution to this problem were y =
< 1274927343 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*y = \frac{a(3x^2-5_^8)}{8}+C
< 1274927362 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... That's horrid.
< 1274927368 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the question is \int 2x(3x^2-5)^7 dx)
< 1274927479 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no clue what they expect students to do on a lot of these other questions, like \int \sqrt{2x+1} dx
< 1274927623 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're so easy, too
< 1274927929 0 :charlls!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Saliendo
< 1274928448 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Rugxulo
< 1274929653 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1274931087 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274931189 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
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< 1274932592 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274932775 0 :elliottcable!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :dmesg
< 1274932779 0 :dmesg!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :elliottcable
< 1274934098 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
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< 1274938136 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
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< 1274939757 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
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< 1274941845 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
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< 1274943737 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274945303 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274946486 0 :gm|lap!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274946709 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1274946836 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
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< 1274947199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
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< 1274947615 0 :Vegabondmx!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Vegabondmx
< 1274947766 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone who knows anything about the cascade-correlation algorithm, please step forward.
< 1274947983 0 :atrapado!~rodrigo@193.144.79.241 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274949841 0 :elliottcable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hallo peeps.
< 1274949858 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THERE BE NOT PEEPS HERE
< 1274949875 0 :elliottcable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, first ever program written in Paws (the language Iâ€™ve been pouring the last half-year of my life into). Criticisms and such welcome. http://gist.github.com/415458
< 1274951379 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1274954991 0 :lereah_!~lereah@nanpc301.in2p3.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274955127 0 :Axtens!~Axtens@dsl-202-72-158-213.wa.westnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274956577 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliottcable: What's the language for?
< 1274956589 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, your first name is suspiciously similar to that of alise.
< 1274956620 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never seen the two of you in the same place.
< 1274956684 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274957057 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1274957164 0 :ws!wswieb@akson.sgh.waw.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274957356 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274957384 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello?
< 1274957396 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XChat is strange...
< 1274957436 0 :Axtens!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: time to go home
< 1274957638 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274957645 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523!
< 1274957695 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1274957752 0 :ws!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey Phantom_Hoover
< 1274957775 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either of you know much about neural nets?
< 1274957817 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I took a module that referenced them as part of my degree, didn't really understand it, and passed anyway
< 1274957819 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that count?
< 1274957847 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you know how quickprop works, then yes.
< 1274957880 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't
< 1274957881 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I am leaving. You are about to explode.
< 1274957943 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to explode!
< 1274958164 0 :ws!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover:  ah, it's just 2nd order rather than gradient expansion in backprop, right?
< 1274958189 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You're an admin on the wiki, right?
< 1274958197 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1274958204 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me and Keymaker have been the only active ones for ages
< 1274958212 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what adminning do you need doing, or are you just curious?
< 1274958218 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you check whether you have the "cascading" option when you try to protect a page
< 1274958247 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a way of "salting" pages so they can't be created if you have cascade protection.
< 1274958255 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, the version's too old
< 1274958259 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can salt pages the old-fashioned way
< 1274958266 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally I don't bother unless they get spammed a lot, though
< 1274958284 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I used to be an admin on Wikipedia, too; and I remember when cascading was introduced)
< 1274958294 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah.
< 1274958307 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The wiki is using really old software.
< 1274958328 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that old, it was upgraded a few years ago
< 1274958334 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it used to use a really really old version of MediaWiki
< 1274958345 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My god.
< 1274958379 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has ReCAPTCHA been broken yet?
< 1274958426 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, not according to WP.
< 1274958468 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know of ReCAPTCHA-protected sites which get lots of spam anyway
< 1274958492 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not actually broken, just it's cheap enough to employ minimum-wage Chinese workers to break the CAPTCHAs that some spammers actually bother
< 1274958503 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I despair for humanity...
< 1274958526 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the hell do they gain from overwriting pages with random gibberish?
< 1274958700 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess is that it's a result of spammers scamming each other
< 1274958729 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one group of spammers advertises "I can spam 100000 random wiki pages for $500" or whatever, and people foolish enough to actually want to advertise using spam hire them
< 1274958757 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the spammers rip them off by spamming places like Esolang which are going to be reverted by attentive admins, and which anyway use <nofollow>
< 1274958765 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, it's not a tag, it's an attribute, but you get my point
< 1274958767 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But who is stupid enough to advertise with spam?
< 1274958830 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274958854 0 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274958861 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274958867 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ais523
< 1274958892 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a court case in the US recently where a company sent out loads of spam for advertising
< 1274958902 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone sued them for spamming, and they actually showed up in court and lost
< 1274958905 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and paid the fine
< 1274959361 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274960311 0 :lereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274962016 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1274962697 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ilua
< 1274962890 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274965125 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274965401 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: You know about topology, right?
< 1274965411 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do.
< 1274965466 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you immerse a Möbius band in 2D?
< 1274965512 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a mobius band is non-orientable, so no.
< 1274965537 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But a Klein bottle can be immersed in 3D?
< 1274965635 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty obviously yes, given that is the top picture of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immersion_(mathematics)
< 1274965693 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the klein bottle itself is 2-dimensional
< 1274965706 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Möbius bands?
< 1274965713 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also 2-dimensional
< 1274965729 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aah.
< 1274965730 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mobius bands can be _embedded_ in 3d
< 1274965759 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's what you do when you make the obvious cut and twist representation)
< 1274965762 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your topological words confuse me.
< 1274965789 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my delay in answering you was because i had to remind myself of the difference between immersion and embedding
< 1274965830 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :embedding = homeomorphism with range subset iirc
< 1274965857 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :immersion though is only locally injective (one-to-one)
< 1274965868 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not know these words.
< 1274965881 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, I know injective.
< 1274965905 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if it's immersed you put all of the points into a given space?
< 1274965924 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an embedding is a stricter kind of immersion
< 1274965952 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is a range subset?
< 1274965985 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an immersion, you map all the points into a space such that _locally_ it's a homeomorphism (continuous bijection whose inverse is also continuous)
< 1274966031 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the subset of the space you are mapping into
< 1274966046 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the image
< 1274966066 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But surely that would mean that the entire subset of the space would be filled with the thing you're immersing?
< 1274966105 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually the wikipedia definitions imply that you use differentiable mappings, not just continuous ones.
< 1274966126 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia's technical articles hurt my brain.
< 1274966139 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoever gave them unrestricted TeX is evil.
< 1274966152 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yes, i'm just saying range subset because the range is not necessarily the whole space mapped into
< 1274966185 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um without unrestricted TeX they couldn't write about large parts of mathematics
< 1274966206 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like that immersion of the klein bottle is not onto the whole of R^3
< 1274966228 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but with it you are immediately beaten about the head with various weird symbols!
< 1274966305 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that article's introduction only contains very common math symbols afaict
< 1274966330 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :letters, function arrow, element and subset
< 1274966368 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact you probably don't need TeX for it
< 1274966396 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't talking aout that one.
< 1274966411 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1274966465 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the words...
< 1274966485 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Latin has a lot for which to answer...
< 1274966534 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although most modern stuff tends to be "Karspinky's surjection" and such
< 1274966540 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure not using latin would help.  there's rank and neighborhood :D
< 1274966645 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274966647 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fear that I am about to fall to the mathematical equivalent of the Curse of TV Tropes.
< 1274966670 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 hours later I will realise that I have 5 tabs on set theory alone open.
< 1274966729 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: maybe you'll find it encouraging that much of that article _after_ the introduction is mostly incomprehensible to me as well (although i may know some of the words)
< 1274966768 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1274966802 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That puts fear into my heart.
< 1274966875 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, I just realised that the neural network algorithm I've been toying with is nearly 20 years old...
< 1274966955 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274966985 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT'S OLDER THAN ME.
< 1274967064 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the bright side, it has not achieved sentience yet, or so we think
< 1274967080 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-6-75.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274967093 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gives up on trying to use it
< 1274967129 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It actually seems to predate the CLOS.
< 1274967151 0 :MigoMipo_!~John@84-217-6-124.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274967362 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1274967462 0 :MigoMipo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274967584 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1274968795 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-6-124.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274969022 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1274970532 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-6-124.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274971056 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274971670 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274972717 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1274974502 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@79.103.6.164.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274974524 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274977005 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274977546 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll have to write my own neural network framework...
< 1274977550 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION quails
< 1274978046 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274978833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1274978850 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ih.
< 1274978882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, loved iwc today
< 1274978897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, the annotation that is
< 1274979016 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION preferred the comic itself
< 1274979027 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the annotation was rather short
< 1274979029 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION mutters
< 1274979037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, but that idea in it :D
< 1274979044 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: O HAI
< 1274979059 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1274979065 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: IS TOO EARLY
< 1274979070 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IS FAR TOO EARLY
< 1274979070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, here, take this allen key, should fit that mutter
< 1274979072 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other people reading IWC?
< 1274979075 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!!!
< 1274979081 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, of course
< 1274979084 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: of course
< 1274979093 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always thought I was in an entertainment vacuum.
< 1274979117 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even know anyone well who has read Pratchett.
< 1274979119 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: me and AnMaster talked about it so much last year we had to stop.  or something.
< 1274979127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1274979147 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has read some pratchett and is pretty sure AnMaster has read more
< 1274979148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also shlock (sp?) of course
< 1274979156 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't read that.
< 1274979158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, well that is a given
< 1274979164 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mainly because the archive is bloody huge.
< 1274979168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if oerjan reads shlock
< 1274979172 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope
< 1274979173 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, what? Disrworld?
< 1274979176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Discworld*
< 1274979184 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, Shlock.
< 1274979185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, IWC archive is bloody huge too
< 1274979199 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but it was summer when I read it.
< 1274979221 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274979243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I jumped into the middle of shlock and then read forward from there (about a year's worth of comics iirc), then later I read the first few years
< 1274979266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, oh and darthanddroids of course.
< 1274979275 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have read that.
< 1274979282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well same author as iwc so..
< 1274979292 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"have read"?
< 1274979294 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly what you need is http://www.archivebinge.net/comics.php
< 1274979297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't you any longer?
< 1274979306 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, yes.
< 1274979311 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant the archives.
< 1274979314 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hasn't used it himself
< 1274979320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, huh? what is the point of it?
< 1274979321 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OR PERHAPS I AM FROM THE FUTURE.
< 1274979330 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er http://www.archivebinge.net/
< 1274979343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1274979350 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<spoiler>Pete kills Jim with some dice</spoiler>
< 1274979358 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: to get an archive scheduled automatically
< 1274979375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, eh. you mean like giving you a few old comics / day from the archive or such?
< 1274979377 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also one of Morgan-Mar's things.
< 1274979380 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1274979382 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He is everywhere.
< 1274979386 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even in esolangs!
< 1274979413 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CCBI 2.1 is out. Nothing too special: fingerprints, fixes, optimizations.
< 1274979418 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn you people, I had just gotten some CLOS docs up and was starting to do something.
< 1274979423 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CCBI?
< 1274979427 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, do you still read mezacottta (sp?)
< 1274979441 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: well i probably wouldn't know about it if it wasn't his
< 1274979452 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: My Befunge-98 interpreter.
< 1274979456 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once challenged someone to read every single Mezzacotta strip...
< 1274979461 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They failed.
< 1274979477 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: sure, although mostly because i use it as my portal to all of DMM's emporium
< 1274979485 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: you don't say
< 1274979505 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I often ponder that algorithm they use...
< 1274979661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, heh
< 1274979677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, markov chain iirc
< 1274979692 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They regenerated all of the strips, didn't they?
< 1274979693 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i've stopped voting for other mezzacotta comics than the daily one, though.  since almost none get into the hall of fame these days anyway.
< 1274979732 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :minorly self-fulfilling prophecy, naturally
< 1274979733 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Hahahah.
< 1274979763 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: there was an April Fools day they did that, but it was temporary
< 1274979767 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They also didn't believe me when I told them the number of comics...
< 1274979901 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, so which web comics do you read?
< 1274980002 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Freefall, XKCD, Girl Genius + Myth Adventures + Phil & Dixie (by Foglio), everything DMM related
< 1274980047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm looked at Girl Genius. Steam punk iirc. Not my kind of thing really
< 1274980050 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, and you?
< 1274980072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm lets see...
< 1274980084 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, steampunk has AIRSHIPS. Which are awesome.
< 1274980099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iwc, xkcd, darth and droids, schlock
< 1274980102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :currently that is
< 1274980121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :used to read uf before, and used to read some other dmm stuff. Tried freefall for a bit, but it was tooooooo sloooooow moving
< 1274980132 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uf?
< 1274980136 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :userfriendly
< 1274980148 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Freefall is fun if you archive binge.
< 1274980150 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :User Friendly is pretty solidly meh.
< 1274980161 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, yeah but when you done that it is just too slow
< 1274980164 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm quite fond of Freefall.
< 1274980174 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though it *is* a bit slow.
< 1274980179 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then you hit the end of the archives and it takes 3 months per minute of story.
< 1274980179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it may be a good idea to split it into bi-yearly archive binges
< 1274980193 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that may it might be enjoyable
< 1274980200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/may/way/
< 1274980206 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Guy who writes it> must have a long-reaching story plan...
< 1274980222 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No kidding.
< 1274980226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, or not, and thus dragging out every minute of it
< 1274980237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because he/she can't think of something past a certain point
< 1274980244 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a he.
< 1274980284 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I think he must have a plan, because stuff keeps going off, then coming back months later.
< 1274980341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also iirc that girls genius, apart from the steampunkness (and airships, true, but I much prefer heavier-than-air aircrafts, love flightsim of jet aircrafts, yay for transatlantic instrument navigation!), it seemed to be almost as slow as that freefall
< 1274980363 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never read it.
< 1274980370 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Airships are just innately cool.
< 1274980384 0 :ws!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover:  what sort of data you're working on?
< 1274980387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no one reads qwantz?
< 1274980394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that's the domain name
< 1274980395 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well there is _one_ heavier-than-air aircraft in girl genius (gil's invention)
< 1274980407 0 :ws!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover:  you mentioned neural nets earlier
< 1274980412 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ws: Yeah.
< 1274980417 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not prominent though
< 1274980421 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not good at stuff.
< 1274980429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I didn't archive binge it, so... Gave up long before that
< 1274980463 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: to be honest i've founded the latest storyline a bit technobabbly
< 1274980465 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, also considering the context I doubt it is anything like a jet aircraft. I would guess it is probably flying by beating wings?
< 1274980477 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is also cool, however.
< 1274980495 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's a double decker iirc, like an earlier "normal" aircraft
< 1274980508 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...A biplane?
< 1274980510 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274980517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, unrealistic for heavy stuff. And slow. Sure it has been done in in real life as an experiment. Carbon fibre and other very very light materials only
< 1274980525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it kind of worked, but extremely hard to control
< 1274980529 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool != realistic.
< 1274980530 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: um not sure of terminology
< 1274980534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, okay those are just boring
< 1274980555 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's the fastest plane in that world though, presumably :D
< 1274980638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, that isn't the point. I don't go for speed in my aircraft interest. I go for either manoeuvrability (yay, English Electric Lightning or the Harrier!) or heavy and interesting airliners. Mostly
< 1274980672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure I fly a lot out of interest, but the fastest plane in the world (SR-71) is almost as boring as a biplan
< 1274980674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :biplane*
< 1274980689 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*found
< 1274980698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where?
< 1274980705 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION whistles innocently
< 1274980725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug*
< 1274980732 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't locate where that would fit
< 1274980738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either in your or mine text
< 1274980739 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i can be ocd about correcting it you can be ocd about finding out where ;D
< 1274980743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my text*
< 1274980750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ocd?
< 1274980755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on carpet display?
< 1274980763 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats AnMaster -----###
< 1274980765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(okay that would be awesome)
< 1274980782 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a friend who is an aviation nerd...
< 1274980795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, thanks for considering me a friend :(
< 1274980797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)*
< 1274980803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn silly typo
< 1274980819 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have a very odd beard?
< 1274980837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, not currently no
< 1274980853 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I *wanted* to be an aviation nerd, but I was foiled by various factors.
< 1274980855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I shave every month or so. When the hair gets in the way of eating
< 1274980862 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too much work doing it more often
< 1274980874 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: girl genius does have giant robots^H^H^H^H^H^Hmecha^H^H^H^H^Hclanks, though
< 1274980875 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your smiley suggests otherwise.
< 1274980876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, neardness comes naturally.
< 1274980885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, mecha? How very boring
< 1274980935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :giant robots, mecha or not, are fairly boring. Now it they were made out of lego that might no longer apply
< 1274981007 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gives up trying to please AnMaster 
< 1274981063 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if IWC had giant robots...
< 1274981099 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does seem to have a shortage of those
< 1274981157 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps AnMaster should send an email...
< 1274981172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well, depends on if they actually worked (mechanical strength need not apply). Imagine a mecha built in lego technic. That would be fairly interesting
< 1274981182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you could look at the assembly instructions that is
< 1274981186 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274981204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has a lot of lego technic and such
< 1274982208 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With an RCX as a control unit, it could get interesting.
< 1274982365 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night
< 1274982401 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OOERRJANN!!!
< 1274983026 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274983242 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-6-124.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274983307 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Saliendo
< 1274983499 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274983794 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-6-124.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274983905 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somehow, my clipboard has the null character in it.
< 1274984686 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ws: Are you there?
< 1274984967 0 :ws!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, only 5 minutes though
< 1274985202 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, OK.
< 1274985206 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1274985244 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing you asked about was an idea for a language in which you specify a fitness metric and the compiler creates a neural network acording to it.
< 1274986737 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274986762 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-6-124.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274987423 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274987447 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-6-124.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274987607 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274987988 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274988012 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-6-124.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274988998 0 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-24-19-39-178.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274989206 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1274989593 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Phantom_Hoover> With an RCX as a control unit, it could get interesting. <--- yeah, 3 motors
< 1274989598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need multiple RCX
< 1274989599 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1274990776 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@79.103.6.164.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274990891 0 :Portponky!~no@cpc2-sgyl23-0-0-cust656.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274992967 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Obviously.
< 1274993342 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274995568 0 :elliottcable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: hah
< 1274995588 0 :elliottcable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: distributed applications, web applications, client/server stuff
< 1274995596 0 :ws!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ...
< 1274995602 0 :elliottcable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: positioned to replace Ruby/JavaScript or Python/JavaScript
< 1274995804 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's not esoteric?
< 1274995976 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Must. Learn. Backrpop.
< 1274995985 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/Backrpop/Backprop/
< 1274996032 0 :elliottcable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1274996039 0 :elliottcable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :peopleâ€™ve called it esoteric
< 1274996043 0 :elliottcable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but itâ€™s sure no brainfuck
< 1274996052 0 :elliottcable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though somebody in the channel created another clone of brainfuck called bewbs
< 1274996068 0 :elliottcable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://gist.github.com/402586
< 1274996103 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My idea is to have a language that is a specification for a neural network.
< 1274996203 0 :elliottcable!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ec
< 1274996291 0 :Gregor-P!~AndChat@173.153.35.56 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274996309 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woooooooh
< 1274996357 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I <3 Android :P
< 1274996478 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1274996707 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, Gregor
< 1274996728 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God I hate reading PDFs.
< 1274996746 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okidoke :P
< 1274996762 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION disapperates.
< 1274996765 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1274997549 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd love Android more if erm, I think I should blame the phone, not the software
< 1274997555 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although HTC_IME lags
< 1274998466 0 :gm|lap!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric
< 1274998888 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :conclusion: bottom up design for lego is not a good idea
< 1274998905 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never been good at top down design though
< 1274999599 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1275000009 0 :Portponky!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made a crappy BF style game with challenges and crap
< 1275000015 0 :Portponky!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno if anyone cares loolll
< 1275000117 0 :ws!wswieb@akson.sgh.waw.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275000235 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1275000516 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275000626 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1275001090 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1275001112 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1275001154 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275001349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Portponky, hm?
< 1275001355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you mean
< 1275001364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like bf joust?
< 1275001392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/BF_Joust that is
< 1275001614 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-34-41.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275001647 0 :Portponky!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its got some challenges for programs to write which it tests. its pretty much BF but with easier i/o
< 1275001667 0 :Portponky!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that , and . just put numbers to/from the tape
< 1275001928 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death
< 1275002202 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoah! i think my poopish language is ready for prime time :D ... except it only has a win32 interpreter so far, but a linux version is on the way
< 1275002263 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In case anyone should be interrested in my quite different language: http://zuu.dk/regexpl.php
< 1275002320 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ilua
< 1275002518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Portponky, makes char IO harder
< 1275002550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, tell me when there is a linux version
< 1275002553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night â†’
< 1275002582 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Im sure it will execute on wine with no trouble.
< 1275002609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, 64-bit wine?
< 1275002621 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :32 bit wine is a PITA
< 1275002626 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there might be a linux version tomorrow, or maybe first in a month
< 1275002637 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, I'm not in a hurry
< 1275002641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night really
< 1275002646 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, it should work on 64 wine too
< 1275002662 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nitghties :)
< 1275002703 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I havent tested it on either though, but i see no reason why it wouldnt run.
< 1275002757 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only reason i havent compiled it for linux yet, is because of some pcre foop :)
< 1275002836 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1275003886 0 :ws!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ...
< 1275005339 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's... My God, my Internet is working NORMALLY
< 1275005645 0 :Portponky!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: chicken is nature's potato
< 1275007936 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NORMALLY
< 1275009096 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1275009461 0 :Zuu!zuu@0x55529f1b.adsl.cybercity.dk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275009461 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host
< 1275009462 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275012550 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMGREUBENSODELICIOUS
< 1275013612 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275014554 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275014724 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1275014858 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275015136 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq> It's... My God, my Internet is working NORMALLY <-- i guess it must be the end times then
< 1275015484 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, stopped working right again.
< 1275015533 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah.
< 1275016931 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1275017620 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: have you ever tried eating your arm? it's quite tasty.
< 1275017646 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My arm in particular?
< 1275017669 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :human arms in general
< 1275017685 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are few cannibals on IRC.
< 1275017703 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: [citation needed]
< 1275017727 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just submitted a troll post to Reddit
< 1275017754 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I guess it depends how you define "troll"
< 1275017771 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :big, brutish, should avoid sunlight?
< 1275017798 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/iamaf/comments/c8w9v/iamna_person_trolling_riamaf_with_this_post/
< 1275017822 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh a comment
< 1275017833 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh?
< 1275017838 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not a comment, it's a submission
< 1275017861 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, hm
< 1275017917 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: from what I can see, anything goes on IAMAF
< 1275017946 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's fully true that I'm not trolling, then? Hm
< 1275017954 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should have said that I am trolling
< 1275017980 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I think that's said in IAmNA, which does imply that it's a fictional persona?
< 1275017983 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know
< 1275018010 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: just so long as you follow the unencyclopedia guideline of "try to be funny and not just stupid"
< 1275018039 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I can add anything that would be funny and not just stupid
< 1275018043 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275018125 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, just consider "IAm(N)An invisible pink unicorn."
< 1275018656 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate Alexander PĂˇnek ist dezent nasal inkontinent.
< 1275018674 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1275018695 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What HackEgo means to say, of course, is "Alexander PĂˇnek is decent nasal incontinent."
< 1275018705 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that right?
< 1275018709 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate Derecho.
< 1275018711 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1275018714 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right.
< 1275018744 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`which cat
< 1275018746 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/bin/cat
< 1275018752 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cp /bin/cat bin/translate
< 1275018758 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1275018762 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate Alexander PĂˇnek ist dezent nasal inkontinent.
< 1275018763 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1275018782 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cp /bin/cat bin/translate
< 1275018784 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1275018786 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate Alexander PĂˇnek ist dezent nasal inkontinent.
< 1275018787 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1275018794 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ls -l bin/translate
< 1275018800 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rwxr-xr-x 1 5000 0 56296 May 28 02:52 bin/translate
< 1275018810 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ls -l /bin/cat
< 1275018812 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rwxr-xr-x 1 0 0 56296 Jun  5  2009 /bin/cat
< 1275018838 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ÂˇAy.
< 1275018840 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, translate is broken.
< 1275018841 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FIX IT
< 1275018843 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm bin/translate
< 1275018845 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1275018852 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cp /bin/echo bin/translate
< 1275018854 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: cat doesn't take it's file as a command line argument
< 1275018854 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1275018861 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate Alexander PĂˇnek ist dezent nasal inkontinent.
< 1275018862 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alexander PĂˇnek ist dezent nasal inkontinent.
< 1275018863 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, well, you know what i mean
< 1275018866 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There, fixed!
< 1275018883 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate I can now translate anything at a rapid rate of speed.
< 1275018884 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can now translate anything at a rapid rate of speed.
< 1275018946 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can quickly translate anything at a rapid rate of fast speed.
< 1275019066 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is intrigued by some of Google Translate's translations.
< 1275019080 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome to Grand Valley State University. -> Bienvenido a la Universidad Estatal de Grand Valley.
< 1275019095 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome to Grand Rapids State University. -> Bienvenidos a Grand Rapids State University.
< 1275019113 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome to Grand Attitude State University. -> Bienvenido a la Universidad Estatal de Grand Actitud.
< 1275019119 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :la grande rapido universidad estatal
< 1275019131 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*rapida
< 1275019140 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome to Large Attitude State University. -> Bienvenido a la Universidad del Estado de gran actitud.
< 1275019156 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...right
< 1275019169 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome to Large Rock State University. -> Bienvenido a la Universidad Gran Estado Rock.
< 1275019173 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It never ends!
< 1275019242 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Argh, noise
< 1275019250 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bienvenido a la Universidad Estatal del Valle Grande.  Bienvenido a Gran Rapids State University.  Bienvenido a la Universidad Estatal de Grand Rock.
< 1275019269 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bienvenido a la Universidad de Green State Reaper.
< 1275019412 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bienvenido a la Universidad Gran Rostro Estado.  Bienvenido a la Universidad Estatal de Grand cara.  Bienvenido a la cara de la Universidad del Estado.
< 1275019427 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo.
< 1275019428 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo.
< 1275019428 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why it said "Bienvenidos" precisely once.
< 1275019430 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :myndzi
< 1275019454 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi: Buffalo Buffalo bĂşfalo bĂşfalo bĂşfalo bĂşfalo bĂşfalo bĂşfalo bĂşfalo bĂşfalo bĂşfalo.
< 1275019472 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol.
< 1275019482 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's missing two more proper nouns
< 1275019632 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, impressive.
< 1275019639 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spanish sentence: La rata que el gato que el perro mordiĂł persiguiĂł escapĂł.
< 1275019649 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its Google translation: The rat the cat the dog bit chased escaped.
< 1275019674 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The impression ends there, however.
< 1275019680 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Back to Spanish: La rata, el gato al perro mordiĂł perseguido escapado.
< 1275019698 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Back to English: The rat the cat the dog bit chased escaped.
< 1275019702 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is kind of impressive, actually.
< 1275019766 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That Spanish sentence actually means "The rat, the cat bit the dog that had (been) chased and escaped."
< 1275019822 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And is a strange way of saying it.
< 1275020476 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it comes back to English unscathed.
< 1275021817 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275023201 0 :gm|lap!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275027148 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1275030189 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275030336 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1275030831 0 :relet!~hirtho@159.162.68.87 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275033215 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1275033599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1275033600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275034253 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1275034892 0 :Gregor!~Gregor@75-151-73-57-Spokane.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275035938 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1275037080 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275038713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Zuu> The only reason i havent compiled it for linux yet, is because of some pcre foop :) <-- hm? libpcre not installed or?
< 1275038807 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275039009 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should probably do something blasphemous, like sleep
< 1275039032 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's half nine! In the morning!
< 1275039467 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should make a song of the various semantics of assignment in different languages, to the theme of the llama song
< 1275039505 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, I thought it would begin "C and C++ make copies", but I'm not sure that that's accurate for C++
< 1275039554 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C#'s really a strange bugger, sometimes copies, sometimes...
< 1275039594 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-8-77.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275039617 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should say "the assignment operator", since it can sometimes be used for things that aren't actually assignment (Ruby, C#, Python, others?)
< 1275039842 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1275040024 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-8-77.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275040359 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can overload the assignment operator in C++, can't you?
< 1275040512 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I.. know there's a copy constructor, don't know how that works with operator overloading
< 1275040513 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then there are things like Haskell.
< 1275040540 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell has an assignment operator. It's just more.. permanent
< 1275040563 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's more of a definition operator, really...
< 1275040599 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably sleep
< 1275040603 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's almost 5am
< 1275040695 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, yes.
< 1275040703 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your ungodly American time zones.
< 1275040732 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I was your age we had one time zone, and we were happy with it!
< 1275041178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Sgeo> Hm, I thought it would begin "C and C++ make copies", but I'm not sure that that's accurate for C++
< 1275041179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh?
< 1275041202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, C has a fairly straight forward assignment
< 1275041233 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it makes copies if you consider the variable itself. You copy the pointer and so on.
< 1275041504 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1275041854 0 :Slereah!~jews@ANantes-259-1-124-28.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275047709 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1275048664 0 :atrapado!~rodrigo@193.144.79.241 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275049846 0 :endebrito!~kriu@84.77.255.176 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275050060 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ilua
< 1275051726 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Saliendo
< 1275052868 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275052943 0 :oklopol!~oklopol@a91-153-122-35.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275052949 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :party!
< 1275052990 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well??
< 1275053012 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no.
< 1275053050 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright
< 1275053346 0 :hiato!~nine@41-132-217-28.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275053431 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Damn f* headache
< 1275053662 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2.3/20100401080539]
< 1275054081 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275054105 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all better now?
< 1275054125 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really
< 1275054156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ouch
< 1275054192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, btw nice backronym in iwc today
< 1275054210 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it's not so much headache as my noise sensitivity being extra bad today
< 1275054231 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yeah
< 1275054254 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're more noise sensitive than the average human?
< 1275054260 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, a little headache too
< 1275054281 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think so
< 1275054364 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've never met anyone with as low a threshold for early pain as myself
< 1275054676 0 :ineiros!~itniemin@dhcp66.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275054845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oklopol> you're more noise sensitive than the average human? <-- I am. Due to better than average hearing (had this tested many years ago)
< 1275054862 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially at the typical "background noise" frequencies
< 1275054895 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION isn't sure DMM's explanation of why three satellites is needed is correct
< 1275054911 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh? what would be wrong in it?
< 1275054941 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you don't actually get the distance from the signal of a single satellite, i think, unless your receiver also has an atomic clock
< 1275054958 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you only get the _difference_ between the distances to the satellites
< 1275054962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1275054968 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my hearing is average
< 1275054979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, and are all the GPS satellites geostationary?
< 1275054986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do they broadcast their own position?
< 1275054988 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :none of them afaik
< 1275054994 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they broadcast their position
< 1275055011 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also our dog has an awesome hearing but she's not that sensitive to loud noises
< 1275055018 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i don't think there's necessarily a connection
< 1275055096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, different species. Could have a lot higher inherent noise insensitivity
< 1275055120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, and there are other factors than just how well you hear when considering noise sensitivity
< 1275055135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I would maintain that (for humans at least) it is one of the factors
< 1275055137 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay then; a friend of mine has a much better hearing than me, but is not at all sensitive to loud noises
< 1275055163 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i expect a lot of my noise sensitivity is psychological, anyway
< 1275055170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, better hearing at which freqs?
< 1275055195 0 :ineiros_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: AARGH
< 1275055198 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like doesn't have to wear ear plugs in concerts whereas my ears start hurting if i use earphones for too long (good ones)
< 1275055210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yes but if you are noise sensitive then hearing more noises than most people (due to better hearing) will only make it worse
< 1275055217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus there is a connection in some sense
< 1275055239 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not tested, i just know i have an average hearing, and he can tell species of motorcycles by their sound
< 1275055240 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm _immensely_ annoyed by coughing and sniffling
< 1275055253 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe i should say races
< 1275055282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, that depends on how loud. Some people are worse than others when it comes to coughing.
< 1275055282 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm annoyed by nothing
< 1275055313 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever
< 1275055326 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: loudness is almost immaterial for me there
< 1275055333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1275055335 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well at least with humans, i get insanely annoyed with machines all the time tho
< 1275055499 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err well actually i guess i have a better than average hearing
< 1275055512 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't have a phenomenal hearing
< 1275055549 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think one of my ears got the second best possible score when it was last checked
< 1275055554 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the other one was perfect
< 1275055562 0 :endebrito!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1275055604 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :score, as in i didn't hear the highest note
< 1275055628 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, "Three satellites might seem enough to solve for position, since space has three dimensions and a position near the Earth's surface can be assumed. However, even a very small clock error multiplied by the very large speed of light[23].the speed at which satellite signals propagate.results in a large positional error. Therefore receivers use four or more satellites to solve for the receiver's location and time."
< 1275055740 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't exactly believe in light, has anyone actually SEEN light, like ever?
< 1275055779 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i was asked to give a seminar on esoteric programming languages
< 1275055815 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and on cellular automata)
< 1275055818 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275055826 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or well maybe more like presentation w/e
< 1275055840 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lecturation
< 1275055989 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ejacula--i kid
< 1275056009 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not entirely sure about the CA talk because i have yet to read my first paper about that stuff
< 1275056028 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: want me to give the CA seminar instead
< 1275056030 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i know the topology stuff from the theory of tiling
< 1275056044 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you like this computability stuff right?
< 1275056050 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1275056054 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1275056057 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought you did
< 1275056060 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :formal languages
< 1275056062 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well I kind of do
< 1275056071 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like it when it's practical.
< 1275056077 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay
< 1275056201 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like it when the problems are interesting, but i guess i prefer it if the results are useless
< 1275056268 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At heart I'm someone who likes things to be implemented.
< 1275056301 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the theory of computability can help me determine if something is implementable, great.
< 1275056327 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay
< 1275056352 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO HAVE YOU GUYS SEEN THAT NEW HIP PAPER ABOUT FIXED POINT TILE SETS
< 1275056561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay wtf. filling out a form has a question for age, with ranges like "31-40", "41-50" and so on. However there is "younger than 20" and "21-31". No option for exactly 20...
< 1275056608 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are 20-yo's supposed to be filling it?
< 1275056620 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's it about
< 1275056621 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: clearly it was written by people with a specific hate against 20 year old pedants
< 1275056622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, well yes.
< 1275056639 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure there isn't a separate form for 20-yo's?
< 1275056646 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: WTF someone made a mistake
< 1275056648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, it is from my university, they are doing some survey on how you travel there. Like "by bus" "by car", ...
< 1275056650 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLYYYYYYYYY SHITTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT
< 1275056680 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: your keyboard is hung up, hth
< 1275056683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, and I'm pretty sure it is aimed at 20 years old yes. Surely they know how old I am at the university.
< 1275056708 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"less than 20" was probs supposed to be "20 or less
< 1275056709 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"
< 1275056714 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster asking what hth means: shut up
< 1275056728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I didn't ask...
< 1275056742 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I JUST WANTED TO SAVE YOU SOME WORK THERE
< 1275056783 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :today there was this paper where they said it's in RE to check if a tile set has at least one tiling and all its tilings have exactly the periods (0, km) and (km, 0) for all k \in N
< 1275056788 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was like wtf
< 1275056816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, I assume that tile has some very specific meaning here?
< 1275056817 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh umm and their sums
< 1275056825 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WANG tiles
< 1275056829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1275056833 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL WANG
< 1275056838 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um well you can emulate turing machines using tiles, so RE results or not exactly unexpected
< 1275056841 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you fill Z^2 with tiles, each tile has a color on each side
< 1275056842 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*are
< 1275056850 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the colors have to match
< 1275056853 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but it's not in RE!
< 1275056857 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's harder
< 1275056866 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, hm
< 1275056875 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah even I know RE isn't TC
< 1275056880 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :consider T1 \union T2 for some weird-ass set T2 and T1 which is m-periodic
< 1275056892 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: was this for _any_ set of tiles or a specific class?
< 1275056899 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any set of tiles
< 1275056919 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay what are tiles in this context really?
< 1275056930 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you fill Z^2 with tiles, each tile has a color on each side
< 1275056932 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the colors have to match
< 1275056947 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like top and bottom have to be the same if a tile is on top of another
< 1275056957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1275056973 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait are these tiles squares?
< 1275056977 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1275056990 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so not jigsaw puzzles here :D
< 1275056998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, sounds like a game I remember playing ages ago, but there it wasn't ZÂ˛ but a 6x6 gird
< 1275057006 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no you can translate jigsaw to wang
< 1275057011 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1275057014 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry wang to jigsaw
< 1275057019 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought so
< 1275057027 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and reasonable jigsaw to wang
< 1275057046 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other way would require the jigsaw pieces to have compatible sizes i guess...
< 1275057056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah indeed wang tiles does seem like those used in that game. Thought it was a bad joke at first. ;P
< 1275057065 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in some sense. i don't know much about the geometric aspect
< 1275057070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, define reasonable
< 1275057083 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i can't, i don't know anything about the geometric aspect
< 1275057086 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1275057094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, also you forgot 3D jigsaws
< 1275057101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably you meant 2D ones only?
< 1275057117 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i said Z^2, obviously you can do any Z^n
< 1275057151 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, well but you couldn't translate a Z^3 jigsaw to Z^2 wang tiles right?
< 1275057169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw that gave me an idea for a game, jigsaw on a torus.
< 1275057178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(probably been done already)
< 1275057180 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway all the problems are undecidable for wangs so you they are undecidable for more general sets too; the translation from wangs to jigsaws is trivial, you just add bumps
< 1275057183 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and dents
< 1275057263 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no you can't translate a R^3 jigsaw to Z^2 wang tiles, you can't even translate R^2-jig to Z^2-wang in general
< 1275057285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, indeed
< 1275057300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but weren't those two statements equivalent? Or is jig != jigsaw?
< 1275057305 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wang tiles != wang?
< 1275057321 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you said this was a paper so i presume the proof was non-obvious
< 1275057322 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, the latter is a person, but in the context of that sentence I meant)
< 1275057329 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wang = wang tile, jig = jigsaw tile, i meant any shape homeomorphic to a ball
< 1275057336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, ah
< 1275057340 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1275057352 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the proof for RE was "obviously"
< 1275057359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, I misread that as innuendo. doh
< 1275057379 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1275057423 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what they were actually proving was E and O are in RE and inseparable, where E and O are tile sets that are m-periodic with even and odd m respectively
< 1275057441 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's true they are inseparable (the nontrivial part), but the RE claim is not true
< 1275057468 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*E and O are the families of tile sets ...
< 1275057473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, so make an article disproving it?
< 1275057490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/make/write/
< 1275057503 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was like lemma 56 with "this claim is not actually interesting by itself, but illustrates the technique well" above it
< 1275057509 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something
< 1275057542 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um so the paper was wrong?
< 1275057543 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@150.140.227.55 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275057569 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong about RE, right about the nontrivial part of inseparability
< 1275057636 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well
< 1275057666 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just wanted to insert my version of wtf someone made a mistake
< 1275057703 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also they probably meant to say that an m-periodic tile set is one that allows at least one tiling with period m in both directions, this is obviously in R
< 1275057705 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*RE
< 1275057709 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you were not initially very clear about this being why you said wtf ;)
< 1275057780 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i know
< 1275057796 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i prefer unclear conversations
< 1275057873 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1275057889 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> um well you can emulate turing machines using tiles, so RE results or not exactly unexpected <<< do you just know from wp or something or have you read stuff about this
< 1275057902 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i guess that's folklore
< 1275057906 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"or something", i guess
< 1275057924 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you know affine maps can emulate turing machines in R^2 and up?
< 1275057934 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, no
< 1275057977 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cannot quite connect the concept of affine maps to emulating anything, there...
< 1275057995 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically you have (r_1, q + r_2) as state, you can move on the tape by multiplication by constant, and change state and tape values by adding constantes
< 1275057997 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*constants
< 1275058019 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: gonna install official ati drivers
< 1275058100 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um you mean using an affine map as the machine state?
< 1275058117 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also turns out you can emulate affine maps with tilings (my supervisors idea), which i'm trying to use to add new fun properties to aperiodic sets
< 1275058125 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no machine state is two reals
< 1275058127 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a point
< 1275058134 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275058138 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1275058154 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then depending on the square you're in, which depends on q and the first digits of r_i's (tops of stacks)
< 1275058159 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you move on the tape and shit
< 1275058168 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is an old idea
< 1275058172 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"you move on the tape and shit" ~quote of the day
< 1275058202 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well.  but conditioning on the square you're in is not an affine operation afaik
< 1275058237 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh sorry i guess the term is partial affine maps or something
< 1275058245 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote <oklopol> you move on the tape and shit
< 1275058255 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :166|<oklopol> you move on the tape and shit
< 1275058278 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you split the domain in some sort of areas and there's an affine map for each domain
< 1275058283 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for each area
< 1275058284 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1275058309 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a frequent thingie to do in dynamic systems stuffology
< 1275058331 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1275058331 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i've mingled with people who did that sort of thing :D
< 1275058351 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you mean DYNAMICAL systems
< 1275058351 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(tilings and translation stuff)
< 1275058354 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that word is always weird to me
< 1275058356 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dynamical
< 1275058369 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in 1d most problems become decidable, if the affine map is continuous, but if it's not then no one knows anything
< 1275058405 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275058412 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dynamical okay
< 1275058425 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i first heard the term like two weeks ago
< 1275058437 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sort of a newbie
< 1275058458 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nüüb
< 1275058525 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i find that unlikely, given that it's in the title of at least some of my articles i believe
< 1275058535 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1275058546 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant decidability stuff
< 1275058554 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you know about that, it would be VERY useful
< 1275058601 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think we did much of that no
< 1275058609 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopolology
< 1275058706 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay i guess it's not that important anymore, my current problems are related to immortality of turing machines, so if you know good anything about that stuff, would be useful
< 1275058785 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically i need to enforce certain properties for tm output no matter what tape it's started on, and usually it's complicated to prove this stuff because a tm like that can't do any sort of unbounded search
< 1275058810 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the initial random tape can have infinitely many non-blanks
< 1275058907 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean a tm whose output has some property given any initial tape can't have any sort of repetitive behavior because you can cheat it into some sort of infloop
< 1275058950 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i retract that, all the articles i thought of just seem to just say "minimal systems" in the title
< 1275058960 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are minimal systems
< 1275058982 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dynamical systems that are minimal, of course *cough*
< 1275058984 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :affine systems with no closed subsystems?
< 1275058989 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay dynamical
< 1275059012 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every orbit is a dense subset, is one of the equivalent formulations
< 1275059056 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay that's actually exactly the kind of stuff i would've needed last week
< 1275059057 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275059085 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another is that there are no closed or open subsets preserved by the dynamics, other than the empty set and the whole space
< 1275059106 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :preserved as in maps to inside it?
< 1275059107 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :self
< 1275059111 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1275059136 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay lol
< 1275059161 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least those are equivalent in the context we studied (single transformation on a compact hausdorff space)
< 1275059193 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(mostly cantor sets)
< 1275059235 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's sort of obvious because the closure of an orbit is a preserved set)
< 1275059254 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would've needed some sort of ways to show a system of affine maps does not have a period
< 1275059256 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*invariant set, may be the terminology
< 1275059342 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the usual cantor sets?
< 1275059358 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and well minimal systems don't have periods, true, but minimal is a pretty strong condition
< 1275059371 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: or homeomorphic to it
< 1275059389 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it, because they are all homeomorphic to each other
< 1275059394 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1275059399 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm so proud i knew that
< 1275059528 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: hm that repetitive behavior of a tm, it occurs to me you can control things somewhat by making sure the stuff you've already seen is in a known format
< 1275059559 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what's to the left of the tape head isn't a problem
< 1275059655 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although if you then move left, you need to be sure the boundary to the unknown region is clearly marked so it doesn't trick you when you move back...
< 1275059665 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :things like that
< 1275059698 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh umm bi-infinite tape
< 1275059719 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah.  well you need to make sure the beginning is clearly marked too, then
< 1275059734 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you at some point need to go back to the marker
< 1275059740 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohh umm
< 1275059743 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i failed to mention is
< 1275059749 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the turing machine can also start in any state :)
< 1275059754 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch
< 1275059758 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you at some point have to go to a marker...
< 1275059767 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if there isn't one
< 1275059799 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed now it looks hard
< 1275059815 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have to assume anything can happen because we're encoding all this in a real number and the affine system has to have convex and compact domains
< 1275059857 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for minsky machines it's trivial to show mortality is undecidable, the "stacks" have a finite number, so you just have some counter N, simulate N steps, reboot and simulate 2N and so on
< 1275059865 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can someone sum up what you have been talking about over the last ~2 hours?
< 1275059881 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shitting on tapes
< 1275059886 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly
< 1275059910 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was discussion over GPS and IWC.
< 1275059932 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Incidentally, I found the thing about ICBMs rather funny)
< 1275059960 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's rather obvious once you think of it
< 1275059994 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ICBMs?
< 1275060002 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it didn't say IC
< 1275060025 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's obvious
< 1275060045 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you don't want terrorists to be able to use GPS for missiles
< 1275060058 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using commercially available parts
< 1275060068 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't they make their own GPS receivers?
< 1275060088 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or do the satellites not send enough data to calculate?
< 1275060093 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no they can make missiles but gps is too hard
< 1275060115 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it probably actually is a lot harder, i haven't tried making either
< 1275060120 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the technology secret, or just nigh-impossible to build at home?
< 1275060149 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also who cares about GPS and IWC when there's tiles involved
< 1275060160 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, tiles
< 1275060162 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tiles!
< 1275060180 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm a professional jigsaw puzzle composer
< 1275060180 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wang tiles, am I right?
< 1275060183 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1275060202 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i don't think it's secret but it will be harder for the terrorists if they need to get their own expertise and maybe even factories...
< 1275060204 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, I think jigsaws and Wang tiles are equivalent.
< 1275060224 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although they can probably just buy from North Korea :(
< 1275060233 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a piece of discussion about that
< 1275060251 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but wang tiles can be compiled into jigsaws by adding bumps and dents
< 1275060280 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1275060286 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I was thinking of.
< 1275060338 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first thing you do one a tilings course
< 1275060341 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*on a
< 1275060347 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other way around apparently has subtleties
< 1275060348 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well maybe not
< 1275060402 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, jigsaw to Wang tiles is complicated...
< 1275060438 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so Phantom_Hoover do you know all about aperiodic tile sets
< 1275060452 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i'm really misquoting oklopol there)
< 1275060461 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No!
< 1275060476 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sort-of know what Wang tiles are!
< 1275060480 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and aperiodic tile set is one that allows tilings, but no periodic ones
< 1275060490 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I know what they are.
< 1275060498 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aperiodic is pretty essential for those tile sets that turn into minimal dynamical systems, iirc
< 1275060498 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Penrose tiles being another example.
< 1275060528 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah penrose tiles are one of the geometric constructions
< 1275060581 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i _think_ the space of penrose tiles under translation was a minimal system
< 1275060589 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um
< 1275060600 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are 3 known ways to make aperiodic tiles, one is the geometric ones that have some sort of recursive structure (although the details can vary lots), then there's the all-new fixed point tile sets that can do almost anything, and then there's the one based on beatty sequences made by my supervisor (smallest known)
< 1275060608 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they probably need to be at least somewhat compatibly oriented
< 1275060625 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you've done tiling minimality stuff?
< 1275060636 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've heard of it
< 1275060649 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh, it's been like two weeks and i still don't know anything :<
< 1275060654 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as i said above, i've mingled with that kind of people
< 1275060664 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should go read stuff prolly
< 1275060673 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1275060731 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soon i'll go
< 1275060739 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soon
< 1275060742 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate irc
< 1275060751 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for those 3 ways, does it include cutting planes of higher dimensional tilings?
< 1275060769 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i recall penrose tilings could be got by cutting something five-dimensional
< 1275060774 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know of proofs that were originally based on those
< 1275060779 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that
< 1275060786 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah i suppose that's different
< 1275060807 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: You aren't a mathematician too, are you?
< 1275060814 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think penroses were just later noted to be cuts like that, or something
< 1275060821 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm or maybe it was just 3, but with a suitable angle
< 1275060841 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: if i'm something, then i'm a mathematician; but i don't think i'm anything yet
< 1275060860 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it may not have been penrose's original construction.  then i don't really recall.
< 1275060876 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*but then
< 1275060887 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so i guess the third category is "geometrical stuff"
< 1275060909 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ones where you actually think about them as tiles and not just local constraints on C^(Z^2)
< 1275060931 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1275060953 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C^(Z^2)?
< 1275060955 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What?
< 1275060964 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the geometric ones aren't nearly as flexible as the fixed point thing (where you can basically make a tm compute anything on the tape), and hopefully the thing i'm doing now
< 1275060985 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: elements of that are integer lattices filled with elements of C
< 1275060987 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: oklopol has switched from computer science to mathematics since he came here
< 1275061013 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lattice...?
< 1275061020 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if he's responsible for that
< 1275061024 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the cartesian product Z * Z
< 1275061107 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C is just an arbitrary set here, i presume
< 1275061110 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: the set of pairs with both elements of Z
< 1275061114 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes, i hit a random key
< 1275061116 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1275061136 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i would suppose the complex numbers _would_ be big enough for all your needs
< 1275061142 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU ARE CONFUSING.
< 1275061176 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could have picked T, or, W, or something without a well-known prior definition, but noooo.
< 1275061187 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A^B is the set of functions f : B -> A, A^2 is the cartesian product of A with itself
< 1275061194 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so C^(Z^2)
< 1275061202 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you were confused about complexes right
< 1275061239 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lattice_(group)
< 1275061239 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case, what oerjan said, you can interpret it as complex numbers
< 1275061258 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was thinking of just lattice as a geometrical idea, but okay :P
< 1275061318 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1275061320 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's that
< 1275061328 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: well, this is as opposed to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lattice_(order)
< 1275061345 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1275061362 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just had the exam about universal algebra btw, GUESS HOW IT WENT
< 1275061377 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a completely different meaning, although there is probably _some_ connection (almost _everything_ in math is connected to the latter one, isn't it)
< 1275061381 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :)
< 1275061394 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well there's a connection between the geometric intuition and both of them
< 1275061466 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: well i guess you aced it, as otherwise you would have been miserably complaining already if i know you ;D
< 1275061472 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1275061484 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah not much to complain this year, i've been studied much more
< 1275061486 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*
< 1275061489 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :studying
< 1275061528 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :math is more motivating than programming for mobile phones and software engineering
< 1275061536 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh forgetting to eat again
< 1275061594 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o
< 1275061594 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oko
< 1275061595 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o
< 1275061596 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oko
< 1275061599 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okoko
< 1275061600 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oko
< 1275061601 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o
< 1275061601 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oko
< 1275061601 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o
< 1275061726 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should eat too, although my stomach hurts from drinking coffee all day
< 1275061812 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you may be partly responsible, but i think it was more the math courses i took, so don't feel bad
< 1275061866 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't exactly a calculated decision, i was told i should switch to math and i was like fuck that's true
< 1275061918 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at some point all my cs had been replaced with math cells, without me knowing it
< 1275061982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Phantom_Hoover> You could have picked T, or, W, or something without a well-known prior definition, but noooo. <-- he didn't use unicode blackboard bold chars
< 1275061989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if he had it would have been way more confusing
< 1275062009 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But *no-one* uses them here, and he used Z for the nats.
< 1275062032 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I use unicode notation if I remember to and I'm not too lazy
< 1275062054 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it's not like i would feel bad even if i were responsible, though ;D
< 1275062122 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cackles evilly just for good measure
< 1275062327 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275062331 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Leading impressionable youth into your evil line of "mathematics".
< 1275062334 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: why not do like oerjan and read my mind :P
< 1275062364 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the first thing you do when you don't understand something
< 1275062367 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read the speaker's mind
< 1275062394 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AUUUUUM
< 1275062435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1275062437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 btw
< 1275062444 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i presume A, U and M are arbitrary sets there
< 1275062467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, is that the product of the sets or something then?
< 1275062528 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1275062550 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually i've seen it mean the multiplication of pairs of elements of the languages X and Y
< 1275062569 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean {xy | x \in X, y \in Y}
< 1275062602 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if there isn't a multiplication then cartesian product might be the next logical interpretation
< 1275062613 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the logic of intuitivity
< 1275062642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh is it just me or has the download system on sf.net gotten slower and more complex to use over time?
< 1275062648 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just shakes his head
< 1275062658 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but bye for now, oerjan can say my lines from now on ->
< 1275062667 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh!
< 1275062672 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*bye
< 1275064125 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1275064376 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once ticked all of the boxes in a survey according to the Thue-Morse sequence.
< 1275064389 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The world must know!
< 1275064440 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION did that for his suitcase combination
< 1275064468 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*briefcase
< 1275064491 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha!
< 1275064500 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know your suitcase combination!
< 1275064508 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh!
< 1275064524 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can steal your effects!
< 1275064549 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Personal or not!
< 1275064559 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dream on
< 1275064582 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION books plane tickets to Norway
< 1275064599 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googles
< 1275064609 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION chants the ancient curse of eyjafjallajĂ¶kull at Phantom_Hoover 
< 1275064628 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's in Iceland!
< 1275064654 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless...
< 1275064673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, Thue-Morse sequence?
< 1275064685 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0110100110010110...
< 1275064694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the pattern
< 1275064699 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it has great powers to thwart your plane flight
< 1275064726 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION books a boat
< 1275064732 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh!
< 1275064749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, Norway has that maelstrom iirc
< 1275064750 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Start with 0, then concatenate it with the complement
< 1275064752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so beware
< 1275064762 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION starts digging
< 1275064769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, what?
< 1275064775 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION climbs on board a ballistic missile.
< 1275064791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, could also get into issues from volcano
< 1275064793 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe
< 1275064796 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: So iterating it goes 0, 01, 0110, 01101001...
< 1275064822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hm why does that remind me of gray code...
< 1275064860 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The algorithm is superficially quite similar
< 1275064887 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION uses a Kolmogorov machine to teleport into oerjan's office
< 1275064896 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/office/whatever/
< 1275064904 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((0)(1)):^!S(~::^S!^*a~^~*a*~:^):^
< 1275064905 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :011010011001011010010110011010011001011001101001011010011001011010010110011010010110100110010110011010011001011010010110011010011001011001101001011010011001011001101001100101101001011001101001011010011001011010010110011010011001011001101001011010011001011010010110011010010110100110010110011010011001011010010110011010010110 ...too much output!
< 1275064915 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hm true
< 1275064928 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275064931 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament!
< 1275064942 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^help
< 1275064942 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^<lang> <code>; ^def <command> <lang> <code>; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool
< 1275064947 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^help ul
< 1275064947 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^<lang> <code>; ^def <command> <lang> <code>; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool
< 1275064952 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, Underload.
< 1275064977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to imagine a gray code computer.
< 1275064990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for all integers and such
< 1275065000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how to represent a signed number in gray code
< 1275065023 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gray codes are sequences, aren't they?
< 1275065087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hm? an n-bit gray code encoding can be mapped 1:1 to an n-bit binary encoding
< 1275065120 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gray codes as in the differs-by-one-bit sequences?
< 1275065147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well yes that is the point that they differ by only 1 bit between any pair of numbers next to each other
< 1275065193 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it still goes through all combinations. For an example:
< 1275065194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bin Gray
< 1275065194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00  00
< 1275065195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01  01
< 1275065195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10  11
< 1275065195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11  10
< 1275065203 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I get it now.
< 1275065209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1275065237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, while an adder for a 4 bit gray code number would probably be quite a pain it shouldn't be impossible
< 1275065288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, another important thing with gray code is of course that there is only one bit difference between first and last element too
< 1275065296 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, of course.
< 1275065372 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why of course?
< 1275065373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how infeasible basic arithmetic would be in gray code...
< 1275065398 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know why i asked that :P
< 1275065408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh?
< 1275065430 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Encoder_Disc_%283-Bit%29.svg
< 1275065440 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why?
< 1275065451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, imagine that is a disk used in some machinery to read the angle of rotation
< 1275065469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, it uses lamps and sensors to see if an area is black or white
< 1275065473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and by that read the value
< 1275065489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, now in practise these might not be perfectly aligned
< 1275065496 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm imagining.
< 1275065505 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :resulting in you could get an inconsistent reading when right at an edge between two values
< 1275065536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a binary coding you could end up at the wrong side of the disc in your reading that way
< 1275065538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with gray code you can't
< 1275065540 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what you're saying is "of course, because that makes most sense"
< 1275065553 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not "of course, because the last one is forced"
< 1275065562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, and since it is a circle it must match up between max value and least value
< 1275065576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, I know the engineering reason for it :P
< 1275065578 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl food
< 1275065594 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Doing addition and subtraction mechanically would be easy.
< 1275065628 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would?
< 1275065654 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1275065723 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a very regular structure so you could imagine there's a faster addition than looped increment (i guess maybe you could just translate between binary?)
< 1275065730 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With one of the wheels, a non-destructive copy routine.
< 1275065741 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh mechanically
< 1275065742 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although that's just looped increment.
< 1275065761 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And would take ages.
< 1275065769 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it would look amazingly cool.
< 1275065780 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i interpreted your "mechanically" as "")
< 1275065793 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably
< 1275065797 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever it'd look like
< 1275065829 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd make whirring noises.
< 1275065847 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps I should tell those Rube Goldberg computer people about it...
< 1275065861 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so grey -> binary should be easy, first bit is first bit, then you just invert or something if the first bit was one and recurse
< 1275065881 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't remember the exact construction, but i think there's some simple way
< 1275065887 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doing arithmetic in binary kind of defeats the point.
< 1275065917 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :math is all about cheating :P
< 1275065932 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but umm
< 1275065938 0 :hiato!~nine@41-132-88-37.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275065939 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :once you know how to do it with the translations
< 1275065948 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cheating with esoteric stuff is boring.
< 1275065949 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1275065953 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can try to do it without them by just looking at what it's doing
< 1275065956 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose maybe
< 1275065970 0 :hiato!~nine@41-132-88-37.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275065991 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, for 2-bit values +2 is identical to complement.
< 1275066007 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, is the thue-morse sequence simply the last bits of the gray codes?
< 1275066031 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well how are the grey codes constructed?
< 1275066053 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1275066053 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm wait no
< 1275066056 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((0)(1)):^!S(~::^S!^*a~^~*a*~:^):^
< 1275066056 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :011010011001011010010110011010011001011001101001011010011001011010010110011010010110100110010110011010011001011010010110011010011001011001101001011010011001011001101001100101101001011001101001011010011001011010010110011010011001011001101001011010011001011010010110011010010110100110010110011010011001011010010110011010010110 ...too much output!
< 1275066072 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it cannot be, because it sometimes changes twice in a row
< 1275066087 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i recall in grey codes you first do some 2^n lines L and then you add a one in the beginning and do L's inverted or something
< 1275066088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back
< 1275066094 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it'd be thue-morse?
< 1275066096 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1275066099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Phantom_Hoover> AnMaster: Doing addition and subtraction mechanically would be easy. <-- yes but I meant electronically
< 1275066113 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would mean it got back where you started since only one bit can change at a time for the gray code
< 1275066117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, also, multiplication and division looks *really* tricky
< 1275066124 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true
< 1275066180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oklopol> it has a very regular structure so you could imagine there's a faster addition than looped increment (i guess maybe you could just translate between binary?) <-- as I said above I was considering a computer that only used gray code, no binary encoding
< 1275066202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Phantom_Hoover> Perhaps I should tell those Rube Goldberg computer people about it... <-- what?
< 1275066207 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link!
< 1275066214 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you don't reverse or flip any bit sequences, you just do R in reverse order
< 1275066218 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*L
< 1275066221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if it was a joke I'm disappointed!)
< 1275066225 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :L being the bit strings used sofar
< 1275066237 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.diycalculator.com/sp-hrrgcomp.shtml
< 1275066246 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some very cool ideas.
< 1275066252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oklopol> okay so grey -> binary should be easy, first bit is first bit, then you just invert or something if the first bit was one and recurse <-- iirc the standard way is some xor gate net
< 1275066254 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 1 11 10 110 111 101 100 1100 1101 1111 1110 ...
< 1275066259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was that for computing parity?
< 1275066269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe both
< 1275066273 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least that way you can make a thingie that always changes one bit
< 1275066282 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One idea for the clock was an electrical arc.
< 1275066338 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1275066361 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm it would seem the last bit of gray code just goes 0110 indefinitely
< 1275066368 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, obviously
< 1275066400 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and each other bit does the same, just slower
< 1275066406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, that is a trivial result of how gray code is generated
< 1275066424 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first they go 0110, let that be a_0, then you always add the same things in the reverse order, so a_(i+1) = a_i (a_i)^-1
< 1275066431 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well yeah it was just relevant to my thue-morse question
< 1275066436 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same for the other bits
< 1275066438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1275066448 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ah
< 1275066476 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and w w^-1 iterated with that rule is always just (w w^-1)^n's
< 1275066492 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not exactly those but among those
< 1275066571 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275066581 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"<AnMaster> oerjan, that is a trivial result of how gray code is generated" <<< i retract my statement, proof by AnMaster is better
< 1275066623 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: um you were saying the same thing
< 1275066625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, I did not consider that it needed any proof. It should be self evident if you know the algorithm for generating it.
< 1275066633 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but i started rambling
< 1275066646 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's what i said
< 1275066657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1275066668 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously, read my mind and not my messages
< 1275066684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, I can't. Distance too large
< 1275066747 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1275066831 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did no-one read the thing on the Rube Goldberg computer?
< 1275066869 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i openef
< 1275066872 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d it
< 1275066929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I looked at it. Somewhat interesting
< 1275066974 0 :ineiros_!~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275067098 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I have a better idea for the pneumatic ram
< 1275067103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, that is, for how to read it
< 1275067122 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm?
< 1275067147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, suction, and check if you get an under-preasure in the tube. Then the cone connected to it is blocked
< 1275067157 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahh.
< 1275067170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than having conducting balls and some wires
< 1275067197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course I'm not sure how feasible it would be to get a tight enough fit for that
< 1275067501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, why are they using 8 bit words btw
< 1275067511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems silly to _not_ use something else in this case
< 1275067529 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know.
< 1275068356 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ( )S((S(0 )S)(S(1 )S))(~:^()~^!:^*(:)~*a~^~*(:)~*a*~:^):^
< 1275068356 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 ...too much output!
< 1275068362 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops
< 1275068420 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ( )S((S(0 )S)(S(1 )S))(~:^()~^!:^*((0)~*:)~*a~^~*((1)~*:)~*a*~:^):^
< 1275068421 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 11 10 111 110 010 011 1111 1110 0110 0111 0010 0011 1011 1010 11111 11110 01110 01111 00110 00111 10111 10110 00010 00011 10011 10010 11011 11010 01010 01011 111111 111110 011110 011111 001110 001111 101111 101110 000110 000111 100111 100110 110111 110110 010110 010111 000010 000011 100011 100010 110011 110010 010010 01 ...too much output!
< 1275068452 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grmbl
< 1275068526 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...oh
< 1275068628 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah
< 1275070308 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, Norway's coastline has a Hausdorff dimension of 1.52
< 1275070316 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Baah, the UK only has 1.25.
< 1275070355 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*MWAHAHAHA*
< 1275070391 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's norway, always bringing chaos to the world
< 1275070603 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@150.140.227.55 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275071160 0 :alise!~alise@91.105.86.86 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275071198 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:36:17 <Phantom_Hoover> elliottcable: What's the language for?
< 1275071199 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:36:29 <Phantom_Hoover> Also, your first name is suspiciously similar to that of alise.
< 1275071199 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:37:00 <Phantom_Hoover> I've never seen the two of you in the same place.
< 1275071201 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably because I hate him.
< 1275071224 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, it uses Unicode excessively. Why am I not surprised?
< 1275071227 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is he a total cable
< 1275071229 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and everyone else trying to leech off your precious name
< 1275071272 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is it that I never feel comfortable on a Friday before my palms sweat?
< 1275071277 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mysteries of the universe.
< 1275071300 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er what
< 1275071326 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No one tried my language yet?
< 1275071337 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what lang
< 1275071350 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my RegexPL language
< 1275071359 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1275071362 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'s PL
< 1275071366 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: er what exactly.
< 1275071368 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it what i think it is
< 1275071376 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's truth, though: my hands feel icky until I do.
< 1275071381 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Regular Expression Programming Language :P
< 1275071386 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes
< 1275071391 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blargh.
< 1275071427 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: that's a weird thing to not feel comfortable before happening
< 1275071467 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: sweaty palms
< 1275071484 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i've described it here: http://zuu.dk/regexpl.php
< 1275071492 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably it's some crazy psychological washing the unit off or somet</Freud>
< 1275071517 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the virtual home" What, that website is not a physical establishment?
< 1275071548 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dont know if someone else have made something remotely similar, but it is a quite different way of performing computation than soo many other programming languages
< 1275071566 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Phantom_Hoover> Hmm, Norway's coastline has a Hausdorff dimension of 1.52 <-- how do you compute that?
< 1275071572 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So; I thought I was getting next week off. I am not.
< 1275071573 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: yeah :P
< 1275071578 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WP says so.
< 1275071581 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise!
< 1275071598 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that, at least, I would get sufficient time to meet up with some friends; even though some couldn't make it it would still be better than nothing. Nope; I don't have any two days off in a row.
< 1275071608 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here is the ludicrous schedule for next week:
< 1275071615 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monday -- bank holiday
< 1275071621 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tuesday -- come in on the afternoon, IIRC, as day patient
< 1275071624 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wednesday -- off
< 1275071630 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thursday -- come in /and then sleep as an inpatient/
< 1275071639 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Friday -- leave at 10:30, making the sleeping utterly pointless.
< 1275071665 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may just stop bothering to make sense of anything, and go crazy.
< 1275071682 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If bureaucracy had a point, it would be something else.
< 1275071704 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Do it now, it's very enlightening.
< 1275071719 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look at Time Cube.
< 1275071720 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's more like a dictatorship in this instance.
< 1275071729 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They get sexual pleasure from authority, I think.
< 1275071733 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is the only way to explain their actions.
< 1275071762 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, power suffers from Adams' Point.
< 1275071781 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone who wants to be in a position of power is almost certainly unfit to hold it.
< 1275071863 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The unit is a wonderful collision of all sorts of incompetency.
< 1275071893 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night
< 1275071909 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, what do you even do in one?
< 1275071920 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Extreme power, bad psychology & psychiatry (which is, I might add, almost entirely all of it: this isn't some fringe unit, this is part of the national health service), ...
< 1275071959 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION impulsively wants to calculate the dimensions of the Rorschach inkblots
< 1275071976 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Imagine a tiny, tiny boarding school (no homosexuality tho) that teaches far, far below your intelligence. Imagine it has "group time" in-between lessons, of which there are only two in a day, and are almost always taught by the same person. Now imagine you can't have a computer or a mobile.
< 1275071989 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shudders
< 1275071990 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Add a dash of patronisation and bullshit psychology --
< 1275072016 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- and various threats to force you to go there like the Mental Health Act and in my case even being threatened with being fostered if my mother doesn't make me attend --
< 1275072020 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you end up with the unit.
< 1275072128 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you don't know anything about neural networks I will have to start taking my frustration on family members.
< 1275072224 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't
< 1275072247 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's OK, I pre-empted that.
< 1275072273 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And patronisation pervades everyone claiming to be trying to help you.
< 1275072329 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1275072370 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's a Law Of The Universe.
< 1275072379 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps I can develop some theory from it...
< 1275072461 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-243-205-116.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275072467 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oranjer!
< 1275072473 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hola
< 1275072477 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are you oranjer than?
< 1275072484 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An oranje?
< 1275072500 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Orange+(-ge)+jer
< 1275072510 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jer being the first three letters of my name
< 1275072577 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, orange is more orange than oranges, you know that
< 1275072615 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, but orange was named after oranges, so oranges are the orange against which all other orange is measures.
< 1275072631 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/s\./d\./
< 1275072654 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not anymore
< 1275072670 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is the fundamental orange!
< 1275072715 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the concept has evolved away from its namesake
< 1275072736 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now we have other orange things to measure orange with
< 1275072742 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such as??
< 1275072781 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :safety cones, I guess?
< 1275072786 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :orange-flavored ice cream
< 1275072826 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of them derives directly from oranges; the other is generally brown from abuse.
< 1275072837 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess which is which/
< 1275072870 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both
< 1275072927 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EXACTLY.
< 1275072939 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm glad
< 1275073032 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION must research neural nets
< 1275073229 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION commits tab mass-murder
< 1275073432 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/images/f/f7/Capture_eb416eade6d81876a512df8d3dcb298b2c2f540b.png From the guy who brought you the Richard Dawkins Project
< 1275073503 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.conservapedia.com/User_talk:Aschlafly#Considering_An_Open_Letter_to_Richard_Dawkins_at_Conservapedia <-- More insane
< 1275073631 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm
< 1275074010 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also a video.
< 1275074178 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D:
< 1275074204 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The word "MACHEEEEESMO" is often said.
< 1275074229 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ma: Cheese? -Mo'!
< 1275074551 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Concrete Roman si a strange, but likeable, font.
< 1275074745 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AARGH, A TYPOGRAPHY NERD!
< 1275074793 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey now, appearance of information is quite important
< 1275074804 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*is
< 1275074830 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, liking a font is being a typography nerd now? Boy, as a typography nerd, can I just say that I am sorely upset at the dumbing-down of its requirements.
< 1275074840 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, what?! AMS Euler doesn't have bold?
< 1275074863 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, you've previously demonstrated dangerous typographical urges!
< 1275074965 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes.
< 1275074979 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something wrong with typography? :-)
< 1275075028 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's odd.
< 1275075035 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only an EVIL person would use something other than Microsoft Word!
< 1275075111 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Typography is the granddaddy of both (good) design, information presentation, and interfaces.
< 1275075140 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Bah, what's wrong with pen and paper?
< 1275075149 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your mother.
< 1275075159 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how Concrete Roman makes your document look like it was typed out on a typewriter, except it still looks typographically good.
< 1275075182 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: That's quite a feat.
< 1275075190 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, this is Knuth we're talking about...
< 1275075213 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, it is Knuth.
< 1275075239 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A guy who went on sabbatical to learn how to do typography right so he could teach a computer how to do it right. :)
< 1275075302 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, so I noticed that the (a,b)-representing-(a-b) construction of Z and the (a,b)-representing-(a/b) construction of Q are very, very similar.
< 1275075311 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, they are the same transformation -- on N and Z, respectively!
< 1275075331 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider a set S and a binary operation * : (S,S) -> S with identity element e.
< 1275075332 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then:
< 1275075335 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inj(x) = (x,e)
< 1275075341 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inv (a,b) = (b,a)
< 1275075346 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a,b) ~ (c,d) = (a*b = c*d)
< 1275075352 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a,b) *' (c,d) = (a*b, c*d)
< 1275075368 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, wait, that one is wrong.
< 1275075373 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a,b) *' (c,d) = (a*c, b*d)
< 1275075379 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a,b) *i (c,d) = (a*d, b*c)
< 1275075408 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then we have *' being the analogy to * and *i the inversion.
< 1275075756 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this a well-known transformation? It must be; it's so trivial.
< 1275075868 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1275075933 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dilemma when using a significantly different body and mathematics font: To follow, or not, the standard punctuation rule of putting punctuation in the end of quotes, instead of outside them, or not.
< 1275075965 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Things usually flow better if you put the punctuation inside the mathematics, but for "." this is not so; the "." in mathematical fonts are usually much thicker and bolder than those in text fonts, so things look a bit strange.
< 1275075966 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Opinions?
< 1275076081 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION puts all punctuation inside apart from "." for now. But that seems so strange.
< 1275076135 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I heard that you know someone's a programmer if they put punctuation on the outside in writing
< 1275076148 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oranjer: ... Or British.
< 1275076155 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really?
< 1275076160 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, cool
< 1275076185 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I must admit I find myself putting some punctuation on the inside.
< 1275076207 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You've misplaced yourself
< 1275076211 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Having a seeming "space" between the space where the quote mark is (which are so high up they're "invisible" in a way) and the punctuation.
< 1275076216 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- is strange
< 1275076240 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, just in case nobody's written about this transformation before (p ~= 0), I am hereby the first: http://filebin.ca/owxsdu/extend.pdf
< 1275076262 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, I just did that for the very remote possibility it's not a known thing.
< 1275076262 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: You realise that the only reason why punctuation ends up inside is that the quote mark slugs where small, right? :P
< 1275076281 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*were
< 1275076292 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well, a lot of things are silly.
< 1275076300 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ou" spellings are a hypercorrection, for instance.
< 1275076312 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1275076338 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still.
< 1275076351 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For mathematical fonts it's different.
< 1275076364 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since you have a mathematical-font character and then a jarring differently-styled punctuation mark right after.
< 1275076521 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Anyway -- "According to the Cambridge Handbook for Editors, Copy-editors and Proofreaders, periods and commas that are part of the person’s speech are permitted inside the quotation marks regardless."
< 1275076529 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which covers most instances such as, say, speech.
< 1275076560 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1275076671 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like Middle English.
< 1275076733 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275076807 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, does anyone want to tell me how Lost ended? I don't know a fucking thing about it, so this should be fun.
< 1275076822 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I know a thing or two.
< 1275076825 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But still.
< 1275076831 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was his sled.
< 1275076835 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::PO
< 1275076848 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::PO; what species are you exactly?
< 1275076875 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[The flash sideways is revealed to be a type of purgatory for the main characters, where they reside until accepting their life and death, and are then able to "let go" and "move on."]]
< 1275076878 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is so boring
< 1275076885 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait a second... that was the ending of Ashes to Ashes, too.
< 1275076894 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Must. Create. Conspiracy. Theory...
< 1275076919 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1275077213 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I want to make a rap involving certain differences in programming languages
< 1275077262 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At first, I thought maybe on the subtle differences in assignment, but I think equality and identity comparision might be more useful, because those tend to vary more widely and insanely
< 1275077295 0 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-46-68.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275077308 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yo
< 1275077317 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you're insane.
< 1275077321 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a q about blowfish
< 1275077330 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you know you're really insane, because I'm insane, and even I think (sanely) that you're insane.
< 1275077331 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is parametrized, how do i decide what setup cost i should be using? i understand it is dictated by the hardware the attacker might be using
< 1275077339 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: are you hashing passwords?
< 1275077343 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1275077344 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why?
< 1275077345 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not going to have all languages
< 1275077346 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: use bcrypt
< 1275077358 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It probably needs to include PHP though, which I know nothing about
< 1275077361 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the idea
< 1275077367 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't know what complexity to use
< 1275077369 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: ah.
< 1275077380 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: well, is this an irc server or a bank?
< 1275077392 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, it's not Blowfish that's parameterised; it's bcrypt.
< 1275077401 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, the default for at least the Python library is 12, but you can get away with a lot more than that.
< 1275077418 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: Just pick a big value such that making it much bigger would make password hashing take an unreasonable amount of time.
< 1275077425 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, this will be excessive, but it's not like that's harmful.
< 1275077431 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but how do i know if it's good or not?
< 1275077444 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bigger is better
< 1275077449 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not necessarily
< 1275077454 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's ridiculously secure so even low values like 12 should be good.
< 1275077455 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*better.
< 1275077458 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't want 2 people logging in at the same time to take down the server.
< 1275077463 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if I were in charge of a bank I'd go higher.
< 1275077475 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: Then experiment with values until it's fast.
< 1275077485 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.openbsd.org/papers/bcrypt-paper.ps is the paper; maybe it has some suggestions.
< 1275077487 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then it might not be secure enough.
< 1275077501 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't read ps
< 1275077538 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How likely do you figure are people to spend thousands of computer-years trying to crack a single password?
< 1275077542 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1275077547 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: why not? What OS?
< 1275077562 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If Windows, I don't know; Google it or something. If Linux, yes you can. If OS X, yes you can.
< 1275077566 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If phone, get a computer :-)
< 1275077576 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or if it's an iPhone, I think you can still; I know it does PDFs.)
< 1275077611 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: linux on gprs and no software to read ps
< 1275077656 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, i need to understand what complexity takes how long to break a password
< 1275077673 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: gprs -- so mobile.
< 1275077674 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: You're scaling between hundreds of years and millions of years.
< 1275077679 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, just bad mobile internet.
< 1275077685 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: do you have xpdf? Evince?
< 1275077689 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Umm... anything?!
< 1275077695 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have...
< 1275077696 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash
< 1275077705 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does bash read ps?
< 1275077732 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what is a reputable source that quotes those numbers?
< 1275077734 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No...
< 1275077741 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what year was that estimation made?
< 1275077744 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would Bash read ps?
< 1275077749 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try gs.
< 1275077751 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, you tell me
< 1275077784 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it's called a rhetorical question.
< 1275077791 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Perhaps you could ps2ascii for him?
< 1275077793 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha.
< 1275077825 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bloody rhetorical questions...
< 1275077827 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i think i have evince
< 1275077835 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'll read pses.
< 1275077896 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :||  ||      |  |        ||
< 1275077896 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :||  || /`   |  |  /~~\  ||
< 1275077897 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :||==|| | ~\ |  |  |  |
< 1275077897 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :||  || \___ |, |, \~~/  **
< 1275077898 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ps2ascii
< 1275077919 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so alise
< 1275077928 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Holy fuck that sucks.
< 1275077938 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do i make the connection of complexity <-> number of years required to crack
< 1275077981 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: no, I did that manually :D
< 1275077983 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Define complexity?
< 1275077993 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was quite good thank you very much!
< 1275078003 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: magic; anyway, I think the paper has a sum
< 1275078004 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc
< 1275078020 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How are we defining complexity?
< 1275078044 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm hallucinating. I thought I heard my computer beep lightly, but the sound's all the way down, and no one pinged me on IRC or anything
< 1275078075 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evidently aliens.
< 1275078087 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I do that often.
< 1275078212 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It irritates me that there aren't any really good mathematical fonts.
< 1275078224 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1275078231 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me guess; Computer Modern?
< 1275078239 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1275078242 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's Didone, for heaven's sake!
< 1275078249 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's wrong with bloody TeX?
< 1275078258 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Congratulations; you don't know what a font is.
< 1275078266 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course I do!
< 1275078274 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please go to your nearest euthanisation booth.
< 1275078275 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But why do you need mathematical ones?
< 1275078285 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you even know what TeX /is/? Or what Computer Modern is?
< 1275078289 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes!
< 1275078295 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, not Computer Modern.
< 1275078299 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Replying to "[request for font]" with "TeX" makes no sense!
< 1275078314 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably you mean TeX's /default/ font -- which is ABSOLUTELY changeable -- Computer Modern!
< 1275078326 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which I already preempted and responded to: <alise> But it's Didone, for heaven's sake!
< 1275078342 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I get it now.
< 1275078347 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay
< 1275078367 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's wrong with Didonity?
< 1275078368 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have my grievances with TeX-the-typesetting-system too, but that's neither here nor there.
< 1275078376 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It's ghastly.
< 1275078384 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why?
< 1275078390 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Computer Modern is admittedly one of the better specimens of Didonicity.
< 1275078401 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Why does shit stink?
< 1275078403 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's stinky.
< 1275078410 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a font! It specifies a way for symbols to be displayed on the screen!
< 1275078417 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, actually, it's a typeface.
< 1275078431 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it specifies some constraints with parameters on abstract glyphs.
< 1275078433 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yesyesyes
< 1275078438 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like?
< 1275078444 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look up METAFONT.
< 1275078458 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Computer Modern's sans variation, for instance, is produced merely by setting the relevant serif-controlling parameters of Computer Modern to zero.
< 1275078466 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Similar with the bold font, etc.
< 1275078474 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure about the italic font.
< 1275078492 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the specific problem?
< 1275078501 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With Didonicity?
< 1275078507 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aesthetic value!
< 1275078516 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because for a font F, Didonicity(F) is almost exactly equal to Fugly(F).
< 1275078534 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes there is a very large value of DesignerWithGoodTaste(F) which outweighs this; the only known example is Computer Modern.
< 1275078550 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, computer modern is a family of typefaces
< 1275078553 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not a typeface
< 1275078555 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear god, I never thought I'd *ever* be having a heated discussion over this.
< 1275078561 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: Okay, okay, you win the pedant war. :)
< 1275078570 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you don't win the MORAL HIGH-GROUND!
< 1275078593 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't intend to - i enjoy being immoral
< 1275078602 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now explain this complexity parameter to me
< 1275078606 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THERE IS NO MORAL HIGH GROUND FOR TYPESETTING.
< 1275078607 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and find good citations
< 1275078612 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: No, vagrant.
< 1275078615 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, die
< 1275078623 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DIE: The moral high-ground
< 1275078627 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that's King Vagrant for you
< 1275078648 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's typesetting! You make words and stuff, it appears on the screen! Morals don't come into it!
< 1275078679 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`define moral
< 1275078682 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1275078685 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Typesetting/typography -- it's about words and stuff."
< 1275078690 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate you for saying that!
< 1275078690 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help
< 1275078692 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
< 1275078694 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DIE, SIR, DIE.
< 1275078700 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!define
< 1275078703 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!define moral
< 1275078709 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAH
< 1275078726 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ls
< 1275078728 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ cube2.base64 \ cube2.jpg \ hack_gregor \ hello.txt \ help.txt \ huh \ netcat-0.7.1 \ netcat-0.7.1.tar.gz \ out.txt \ paste \ poetry.txt \ quotes \ share \ test.sh \ tmpdir.3738 \ wunderbar_emporium
< 1275078732 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ls bin
< 1275078733 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? \ addquote \ calc \ commands \ creatures \ define \ esolang \ etymology \ fortune \ google \ helpme \ imdb \ karma \ marco \ minifind \ paste \ ping \ quote \ rec \ roll \ runfor \ sayhi \ strfile \ swedish \ toutf8 \ translate \ translatefromto \ translateto \ unstr \ url \ wolfram
< 1275078751 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`define moral
< 1275078752 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1275078763 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT IS A WORD YOU STUPID PROGRAM.
< 1275078773 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`define define
< 1275078775 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1275078780 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run define define
< 1275078781 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1275078787 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...This isn't a dictionary, is it?
< 1275078791 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run define
< 1275078793 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Define what?
< 1275078795 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run define what
< 1275078797 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1275078805 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, besides, you lose any moral ground since you're by default on the wrong end of the antiqua-fraktur dispute
< 1275078808 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run define Why the hell this doesn't work
< 1275078810 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1275078812 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run define --help
< 1275078813 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1275078820 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run define --help 2>&1
< 1275078822 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\ Looking up 127.0.0.1:3128 \ Making HTTP connection to 127.0.0.1:3128 \ Alert!: Unable to connect to remote host. \  \ lynx: Can't access startfile http://google.com/search?q=define:%2d%2d%68%65%6c%70
< 1275078825 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: You /like/ Fraktur?
< 1275078832 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's w hy it doesn't work
< 1275078841 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't read german books in latin script
< 1275078858 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: Yes, I can quote too.
< 1275078868 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: More to the point: you /like/ German?
< 1275078877 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: Yes you do. Unless you write German in runes?
< 1275078882 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a wonderful language to be angry in.
< 1275078889 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i write german with a sword
< 1275078893 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in your chest.
< 1275078901 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My point exactly.
< 1275078952 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, what emotions do languages map to...
< 1275078955 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Now now, we both know what that quote means.
< 1275078966 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :French: romance. Or pretentiousness.
< 1275078978 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If you don't: Latin Antiqua script vs. German Fraktur script dispute.)
< 1275078995 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Latin: pretentiousness.
< 1275079009 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fraktur, note, is ugly except in very specific circumstances.
< 1275079020 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fraktur is such a pain to read.
< 1275079032 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Certainly I'd rather read a book in Antiqua than Fraktur no matter what the language; Fraktur basically embodies hostility to the reader -- "you cannot read this".
< 1275079051 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is almost as if it is intentionally designed such that only the sufficiently patient and determined can make sense of its forms.
< 1275079060 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: German: POWER.
< 1275079085 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Grass script is worse. (note: only relevant for Chinese characters)
< 1275079099 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not Japanese?
< 1275079107 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks that up. Ow.
< 1275079108 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OW.
< 1275079115 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to cry
< 1275079116 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Japanese uses Chinese characters as well.
< 1275079132 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should be called "fuck you script".
< 1275079172 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fortunately, it's only used for calligraphy, not for writing...
< 1275079187 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because *nobody can freaking read it*)
< 1275079219 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Calligraphy irritates me some.
< 1275079240 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chinese calligraphy is quite nice when it's not grass script.
< 1275079261 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(semicursive script and regular script are nice. Mmm.)
< 1275079263 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fraktur is so easy to learn and quite beautiful to behold
< 1275079284 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and easy to read
< 1275079300 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you expect to be able to read cyrillic off the bat without having actually been taught
< 1275079338 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But Fraktur is nominally *the same damned script*. It's just a very hard to read rendering thereof!
< 1275079339 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not beautiful. It's pretty much the opposite of beautiful: pointless flourish and agonising at times, painfully fractured (how appropriate) the rest.
< 1275079356 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's not.
< 1275079359 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not easy to read; no way can you read it as fluidly as Antiqua-descendants.
< 1275079372 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Continuing...
< 1275079381 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :English: instruction manuals.
< 1275079381 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I'm quite uninterested in the opinion of anyone who likes Fraktur; even if it's an opinion about Fraktur.
< 1275079384 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1275079410 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fraktur is as similar to antiqua as greek is similar to orthodox cyrillic
< 1275079425 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: Failure.
< 1275079439 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...They're both Latin scripts?
< 1275079446 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, they're not
< 1275079455 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go read a book
< 1275079473 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes, Fraktur is a style of Roman script. As is Antiqua.
< 1275079503 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: Linguistics failure.
< 1275079508 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: Yes they are. They both use Latin characters.
< 1275079516 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What more could you possibly want?
< 1275079533 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone who uses a Roman script will be able to recognise Fraktus as a very ornate rendering of Roman script.
< 1275079543 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/Fraktus/Fraktur/
< 1275079576 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck, it's closer to Antiqua than handwritten cursive is.
< 1275079636 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, you want an authentically German script? Learn runes.
< 1275079748 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, not really
< 1275079763 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, they use roman characters... there's no such thing as latin characters.
< 1275079777 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same difference.
< 1275079790 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know what I meant.
< 1275079833 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, according to WP "Latin" and "Roman" are interchangeable.
< 1275079877 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, why are there so many quote marks?
< 1275079890 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: "Not really" what?
< 1275079892 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runes?
< 1275079911 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those are a script legitimately meant for Germanic languages.
< 1275079964 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat
< 1275079998 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yareally.
< 1275080009 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you're saying that the Roman characters were reinvented for Germanic languages?
< 1275080018 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at cheater, not pikhq)
< 1275080179 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no?
< 1275080364 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so why is Fraktur not Latin?
< 1275080369 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Egyptienne is a nice slab serif.
< 1275080420 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because Latin is a language
< 1275080433 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a Latin Script is a script used for that language
< 1275080445 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Failure*, cheater99.
< 1275080447 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Fraktur has never been used for Latin books
< 1275080447 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Failure*.
< 1275080480 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, that didn't have the effect you desired the first time around, and it won't even if you hammer it a thousand times
< 1275080487 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might have a different effect though!
< 1275080489 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: It's still true!
< 1275080522 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, your mom.
< 1275080529 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your statements are so bloody ignorant it makes my brain bleed!
< 1275080560 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Latin script, more commonly called the Roman script, is the script originally developed for use in Latin, and later adapted to a *large* number of languages.
< 1275080586 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has had many, many different stylistic variants, simply because it has been in use for a couple millenia now.
< 1275080600 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you copypasting that from anyone-can-contribute-pedia?
< 1275080610 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I'm not.
< 1275080623 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prove it.
< 1275080631 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have HTTP access ATM.
< 1275080642 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hearsay
< 1275080670 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You, sir, are an idiot, who needs to learn more about linguistics before talking about writing systems.
< 1275080681 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pity our resident linguist isn't around ATM.
< 1275080693 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love you too
< 1275080710 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: Actually refute what he's saying, rather than accusing him of getting it off WP.
< 1275080737 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i absolutely do not care enough for this to happen
< 1275080752 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, what you're saying is... You're a troll?
< 1275080791 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, what i'm saying is i had an interesting conversation with alise and you came in with your boring interjections and spoiled it
< 1275080825 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I hate both of you?
< 1275080830 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seems fair.
< 1275080854 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Please, do. I have precious few enemies of late. It makes life more interesting to have good enemies.
< 1275080857 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: can't rape the willing
< 1275080873 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Though, note that you too have the obligation to provide references.
< 1275080884 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I am incapable of doing so ATM.
< 1275080892 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then chill a bit :)
< 1275080903 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So. ([Pikhq's Memory])
< 1275080906 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's my citation.
< 1275080906 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1275080911 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shit, my life ranks pretty damn high on the shitty scales and even I'm chilling right now.
< 1275080924 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: You think I'm worked up?
< 1275080947 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, perhaps not; but your text was.
< 1275080960 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a serious problem with that.
< 1275080960 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so alise
< 1275080969 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I noticed. I do too
< 1275080970 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :want 2 talk about what's putting you down?
< 1275080976 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: You hate like everyone.
< 1275080982 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My discussions can get significantly more inflammatory than they are meant to be.
< 1275080982 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: If you're in here you should know :-)
< 1275080990 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: i don't
< 1275080995 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: i am only here periodically
< 1275081008 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: but i care for this channel, fill me in
< 1275081022 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, apology accepted
< 1275081028 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: Suffice to say that I'm falsely forced to be in a bureaucratic children's mental institution Monday to Friday that is basically a relic of the 60s; and to a large degree I'm treat like a 7-year-old there.
< 1275081031 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: :P
< 1275081042 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: HEY I NEVER APOLIGISED! (j/k)
< 1275081049 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I have tried to protest by not attending they first threatened to invoke the Mental Health act on me; then, they threatened (to my mother) to put me into foster care.
< 1275081059 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My life is shitty; discuss.
< 1275081072 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: how old r u
< 1275081082 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14.
< 1275081086 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, it's 'FML, discuss'
< 1275081092 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I'm male; this name is a long story
< 1275081093 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Am I allowed to ask why in the first place?
< 1275081101 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: They think I'm crazy
< 1275081107 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want something more specific ask more specifically :P
< 1275081112 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: every time i see your nickname i think of the gif of alisee waving her hips
< 1275081119 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the version with a huge penis stuck on
< 1275081135 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Why do they think you're crazy?
< 1275081141 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: Good to know, good to know.
< 1275081147 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: if i were you i would be really nice to your mom and ask her to put you in a better place than tht
< 1275081150 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*that
< 1275081161 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: My mother isn't the one doing it! She's sane enough to hate it too.
< 1275081170 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then who's 'doing it' and y?
< 1275081177 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When she cooperated with my not attending, they told her that if she didn't force me to attend they'd put me in foster care.
< 1275081194 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: The Over-Arching Happy Fun State of Great Britain; specifically the "National 'Health' Service" division.
< 1275081198 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*'Service'
< 1275081218 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are they doing that to you
< 1275081230 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do they think you're crazy?
< 1275081236 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: they think I'm crazy
< 1275081239 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why
< 1275081246 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: because they looked at me and decided in their expert opinion that i am crazy
< 1275081248 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: The Queen in Right of Britain seems to like enabling power trips.
< 1275081254 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's as much a puzzle to me as it is to you.
< 1275081255 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why have they 'looked at you'
< 1275081263 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not: The Queen in Right of Britain is a quite distinct entity from Her Majesty)
< 1275081279 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evidently an unhealthy interest in typography.
< 1275081282 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: That's quite a long story & one I'd rather not go in to, least of all because it isn't entirely to do with me.
< 1275081297 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They had no prior reason to believe I was crazy, though.
< 1275081306 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: so can your mom put you in a different place?
< 1275081319 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: No.
< 1275081328 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: No, but they can expatriate.
< 1275081346 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :expatriate meaning move out of britain?
< 1275081383 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that is what happens when one expatriates from a country in Great Britain.
< 1275081408 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though typically someone who wishes to expatriate would like to leave the UK, not just one of England, Scotland, or Wales.
< 1275081412 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1275081416 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't they stop you doing that too?
< 1275081427 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Not really.
< 1275081430 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not unless I've committed a crime.
< 1275081431 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No; it's the NHS.
< 1275081441 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd be surprised...
< 1275081455 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am pretty sure I am not on any terrorist watch lists
< 1275081470 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Workers of the NHS have often prevented me from leaving the country.
< 1275081471 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :& I am also pretty sure that they would not have the foresight to preemptively block a completely unexpected flight.
< 1275081473 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have the power to declare someone in their care in need of hospitalisation.
< 1275081477 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Oh?
< 1275081479 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do tel.
< 1275081481 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*tell
< 1275081499 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They do not have the power to declare someone in another nation in need of hospitalisation.
< 1275081500 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, my parents have never let me leave the country without me, so...
< 1275081516 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/me,/them,/
< 1275081528 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd have trouble leaving without me too
< 1275081530 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Cheesy.
< 1275081533 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALso, curse your s//
< 1275081538 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Also
< 1275081564 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway what they say I have is OCD & some high-functioning autism spectrum disorder.
< 1275081571 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(They don't work for the psychiatric bits, so I'm not fraternising with the enemy)
< 1275081579 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will accept that I have aspects of both but together they are two labels too strong.
< 1275081587 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that's a reason to effectively lock you up WHY?
< 1275081592 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, why is that grounds for sectioning?
< 1275081594 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also definitely reject that I need to be sleeping in an institution all week.
< 1275081596 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Indeed!
< 1275081599 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The irony being that all their treatments are likely to make either one *worse*.
< 1275081599 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the most crazy thing.
< 1275081608 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ONOEZ HE WILL ARRANGE THINGS
< 1275081611 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only sane response even if I /did/ have those disorders would be to treat me at home!
< 1275081619 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Putting me in an institution is an unacceptable response.
< 1275081633 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, did I mention I'm not allowed any internet connection?
< 1275081634 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At all?
< 1275081637 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND WILL ARRANGE THINGS WHILE NOT TALKING TO PEOPLE
< 1275081640 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I think socializing might be an important part, though
< 1275081643 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So maybe that's the goal?
< 1275081645 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only time you're allowed to use the internet is on the well-monitored, filtered-to-shit school computers.
< 1275081653 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Ah, but you might arrange things and not talk to people *online*
< 1275081655 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Socialising? You can't even go out without a trip of some sort being planned.
< 1275081662 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I have no access to the internet...
< 1275081668 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I could only socialise with the very few people at the unit.
< 1275081675 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoop de doo, I am newly integrated into society
< 1275081681 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Autism != not talking to people.
< 1275081698 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was not, in fact, being serious.
< 1275081705 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION , being autistic, would know
< 1275081711 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would also
< 1275081714 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway if they knew anything about Asperger's-ish syndromes they'd know that taking one away from their "obsession" (which any right-thinking person working under the assumption that I had Asperger's would definitely deduce to be computers) is psychologically traumatic.
< 1275081721 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So they're fucking retards any way you cut it.
< 1275081723 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not all autistic people understand autism *looks selfwards*
< 1275081728 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: No fucking shit.
< 1275081731 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: :P
< 1275081733 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not to mention that even if all this was the "right" thing to do... it violates the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
< 1275081737 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I don't believe you have autism.
< 1275081739 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, is anyone here *not* autistic?
< 1275081744 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or Aspergerial?
< 1275081745 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes, almost everyone.
< 1275081746 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a sec brb
< 1275081750 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asperger's, well, no.
< 1275081753 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wanna know why?
< 1275081755 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well, Asperger's, according to a doctor a while ago, according to my dad
< 1275081764 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asperger's syndrome is SO BROADLY DEFINED that /anyone/ of a nerdy disposition has it.
< 1275081772 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And even a lot of people /without/ such a disposition.
< 1275081781 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC Aspergers and autism don't have well-defined boundaries
< 1275081784 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a useless label -- it refers to /nothing/.
< 1275081797 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Autism is very well-defined, and very noticeable.
< 1275081799 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asperger's is soon to cease being a diagnosis.
< 1275081802 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asperger's nowadays means nothing.
< 1275081808 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As indeed I said.
< 1275081808 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes; they're removing it from the DSM, aren't they?
< 1275081811 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, the DSM is a pile of shit.
< 1275081812 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes.
< 1275081824 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So soon I will be just "autistic"?
< 1275081831 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Soon you will just be nothing.
< 1275081831 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes.
< 1275081835 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your diagnosis was almost certainly wrong.
< 1275081837 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, depends.
< 1275081847 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you've only ever known me online
< 1275081847 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But when even the DSM thinks some diagnosis is a stupid piece of shit, you can be pretty sure it's a stupid piece of shit. :P
< 1275081850 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're an antisocial nerd; nothing wrong with that.
< 1275081856 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: If you were autistic... We'd know.
< 1275081861 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're not zzo38.
< 1275081869 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or pikhq.
< 1275081876 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Wait, you're not particularly odd.
< 1275081887 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(zzo38 is fucking obvious, though. I mean damn.)
< 1275081890 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: What are you trying to say?
< 1275081892 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ...
< 1275081900 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'd say you have pretty mild autism, based solely on your IRC persona.
< 1275081908 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have weird definitions of *everything*
< 1275081909 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My dad kept emphasizing "mild"
< 1275081912 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, zzo38 is a most wonderfulest person.
< 1275081918 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Mild, but noticable, yes.
< 1275081927 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Mild Asperger's? Asperger's is already so mild as to be more a block of nothing than cheese!
< 1275081938 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My IRC persona is pretty much the same as my IRL persona.
< 1275081941 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mm, cheese.
< 1275081950 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, even including pedantic usage of language.
< 1275081955 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: In which case, meeting you would be awesome.
< 1275082003 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION must. learn. neural. nets.
< 1275082005 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1275082021 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he suffered from extreme self-awareness
< 1275082025 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He, himself, was a neural net.
< 1275082030 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1275082035 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Hahahah.
< 1275082079 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, remember how you said I shouldn't work on this project unless I'm getting paid, or think it's incredibly incredibly important, or (forgot what the third condition was)?
< 1275082098 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes.
< 1275082105 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're hypothetically getting paid, I assume?
< 1275082109 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I figure that I will get paid in attention
< 1275082128 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you'd be the profit's kind suffixed by "whore".
< 1275082145 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there anyone who isn't?
< 1275082162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm what is normal harddrive temperatures?
< 1275082166 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My introductory speech for my speech class was how attention-seeking isn't inherently a bad thing
< 1275082183 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :31-32 C doesn't seem too bad
< 1275082251 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"except it still looks typographically good" <<< you mean typographically non-monospacedly crappy?
< 1275082252 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I'm not an attention whore, I don't think. Just an attention slut.
< 1275082261 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew oklopol would come in <3
< 1275082275 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you'd like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concrete_Roman it's like it's monospaced
< 1275082280 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it also appeases typonerds like myself.
< 1275082286 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, what's the difference, exactly?
< 1275082299 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Look up the specs for your model. Typically up to around 50 is fine, I think.
< 1275082307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, well that is a given if it was alise that said it
< 1275082350 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Firstly, shut up.
< 1275082362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ah good idea. And yeah 31 C should be fine considering the indoor temp. It went to 39 C the day it was 27 C inside. And today it is about 18 C.
< 1275082366 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Secondly, it was a product of Knuth; conflicting raging-AnMaster-opinions alert.
< 1275082378 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: slut is slightly less severe :-)
< 1275082389 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: of course N->Z and Z->Q are the same thing, you're adding inverses to an operation lacking them (it's possible i haven't explicitly realized this tho)
< 1275082390 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: My God, I want Concrete Roman as a terminal font.
< 1275082392 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1275082402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it was something you could have said though
< 1275082414 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yeah but the point is that you can do it "automagically"
< 1275082428 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it always comes out as tuples (a,b) representing op_inv(a,b)
< 1275082481 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275082496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm... Non-monospace would be a pain in a terminal
< 1275082503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same goes for irc
< 1275082526 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only in a shitty Unix terminal.
< 1275082529 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;)
< 1275082533 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I use a serifed font for IRC.
< 1275082570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, how does the listing in "/msg nickserv help" (without quotes, duh) look to you?
< 1275082585 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Readable enough.
< 1275082592 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably the second column is not very well aligned though?
< 1275082594 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're missing out \o/
< 1275082594 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                      |
< 1275082594 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                      >\
< 1275082596 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't have to be aligned to see what the commands do; and how often do you look at nickserv help?
< 1275082599 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Far more often I talk.
< 1275082606 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycroftiv: No, it's great because it looks ridiculous
< 1275082608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well operserv then?
< 1275082612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P
< 1275082621 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not authorized to use OperServ. :P
< 1275082634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well duh not on here. But aren't you an oper anywhere?
< 1275082638 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Everything you've learned in life. In five words. GO." ;; if you can answer this, you haven't learned much.
< 1275082640 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No.
< 1275082645 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I don't want to be.
< 1275082647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I'm kind of surprised in fact.
< 1275082668 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? You know that #esoteric is about 90% of my IRC usage.
< 1275082683 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1275082697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no I didn't
< 1275082703 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay.
< 1275082708 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Must... stop... trying.. to.. be.. verbose.. on.. Twitter
< 1275082710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I thought you were in #haskell and various other channels too?
< 1275082711 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure whether to be flattered or not, then. :P
< 1275082717 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, #haskell sometimes.
< 1275082719 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still all Freenode, though.
< 1275082728 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"<Phantom_Hoover> alise: You hate like everyone." <<< she doesn't hate me
< 1275082740 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just all you idiots
< 1275082742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, freenode is a large part of my channel list too
< 1275082744 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, here's my obligatory five-word summary: "Keep calm and carry on."
< 1275082747 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-you
< 1275082749 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*obligatory joke
< 1275082791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, 50% or so from a quick guesstimate based on ocular inspection of the channel list.
< 1275082815 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ocular. Really now.
< 1275082820 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway.
< 1275082827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well, it is correct.
< 1275082843 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even like being an op :-)
< 1275082852 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grah, removing spaces and punctuation just to fit 140chars hurt my soul
< 1275082857 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usually I'm only an op so that crappy people don't become ops :p
< 1275082867 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: So don't use Twitter.
< 1275082877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ocular: [...] 3. Seen by the eye; visual
< 1275082878 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I mostly follow people and bots
< 1275082884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ocular
< 1275082887 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who follows you?
< 1275082888 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I know.
< 1275082890 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: But come on.
< 1275082896 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, a surprisingly large number
< 1275082901 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: 4?
< 1275082905 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I rather liked the phrase "quick guesstimate based on ocular inspection"
< 1275082908 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :37
< 1275082912 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oklopol> you're more noise sensitive than the average human?
< 1275082916 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, my secondary account has 104 followers
< 1275082927 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know I am; all my senses are quite a bit sharper than ordinary.
< 1275082936 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which makes me wonder: what is everyone else missing?
< 1275082945 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Why "of course"?
< 1275082949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it sounds so.... hm.... hard to describe it. Not scientific. Not bureaucratic. But something along those directions.
< 1275082961 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Verbose?
< 1275082962 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it's a bot, just tweets when a new OOTS is up
< 1275082966 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Far more interesting than I am
< 1275082967 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Ah.
< 1275082967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ah thanks :)
< 1275082997 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is jealous
< 1275083018 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It occurs to me upon this present time that, as I sit at my computer typing on IRC, I should consider a fact; that fact would enlighten the populace of the #esoteric channel, or at least one member of it; and it would be a very good thing to say now; and I must also consider that the identity of that fact should be known as the fact that AnMaster could be the next Dickens.
< 1275083021 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, plus I seen "ocular inspection" used in a protocol to describe the process of checking a house for water damage.
< 1275083038 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"<Phantom_Hoover> Wait, is anyone here *not* autistic?" <<< i'm a normal brained healthy boy
< 1275083051 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who eats dog food
< 1275083051 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seemed rather silly. It sounds even sillier in Swedish (which was the language of the protocol): "okulĂ¤r inspektion"
< 1275083065 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okulär Inspektion would be a kick-ass band/album name
< 1275083076 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, wonderful statement above
< 1275083083 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You'd like Dickens.
< 1275083093 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which also indicates that you have terrible taste.
< 1275083095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm I read David Copperfield
< 1275083102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't like it that much
< 1275083103 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a feeling I can now ping pikhq to invoke horrible rage upon the name Dickens.
< 1275083117 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My sentence there was modelled upon the opening of Great Expectations.
< 1275083118 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was kind of "meh"
< 1275083140 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has been out of touch with non-Pratchett literature for years
< 1275083151 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dickens is a bit... older than that.
< 1275083157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, don't you find writing in various verbose and bureaucratic stylistic styles fun?
< 1275083160 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/91/JapaneseTtypewriter.jpg I cannot even begin to fathom how glad Japanese people must have been to have computers do typesetting.
< 1275083166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, quite a lot older
< 1275083179 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Dickens' style was hurt quite greatly by being paid by the word.
< 1275083181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, how does that work
< 1275083183 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I don't think I've read much fiction outside of Pratchett
< 1275083188 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Poorly.
< 1275083200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well yes but where are the keys
< 1275083203 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I have an innate dislike of the man himself; he was quite overly sentimental.
< 1275083206 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: it's not monospaced, impossible to read
< 1275083213 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, sorry for not saying anything all day
< 1275083216 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's time for me to go home
< 1275083224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, cya
< 1275083224 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, does Calculus the Easy Way count as fiction
< 1275083226 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1275083234 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :His novels seem shallow to me: they're fancies in the land of irrelevancy; disconnected to any experience that we know because they take place in a hackneyed, fake universe.
< 1275083239 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it's a fictional sto.. the answer's obviously yes, isn't it
< 1275083239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ?
< 1275083244 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: YES BCUZ LOL CALCULUS IS HARD LOL
< 1275083259 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, um?
< 1275083260 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<AnMaster> pikhq, well yes but where are the keys
< 1275083261 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1275083264 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: I was imitating an idiot.
< 1275083265 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, brb.
< 1275083270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes that is what I asked about
< 1275083293 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I'm unable to spot anything remotely like keys in http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/91/JapaneseTtypewriter.jpg
< 1275083316 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel like I haven't learned any math since 7th grade or so
< 1275083332 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :based on oculating my chanlist freenode is 40% of my channelity
< 1275083344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, heh
< 1275083381 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275083404 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sensitivity to senses is one of those things self-described aspies love
< 1275083409 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways. What'd I miss?
< 1275083409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, best bureaucratic phrase of all time, which I seem unable to translate to English: "grĂ¶nfoderomvandlande mjĂ¶lkproduktionsenhet"
< 1275083416 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for those who know Swedish however...
< 1275083419 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You move the handle around to select the type slug, and then the machine strikes the slug against the page.
< 1275083425 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last line to/from me.
< 1275083425 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(btw it means "cow", which is usually "ko" in Swedish)
< 1275083453 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Calque it?
< 1275083454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, ah
< 1275083457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, what?
< 1275083466 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1275083467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Calque"?
< 1275083471 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Translate each individual component?
< 1275083477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1275083478 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1275083481 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :pikhq
< 1275083492 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Calques are absurdly common in English.
< 1275083515 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"<alise> who eats dog food" <<< it all tastes almost the same, i've found
< 1275083529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, something like: "green fodder converting" "milk production unit"
< 1275083543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure of "fodder", got it from google translate"
< 1275083548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/"$//
< 1275083574 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Fodder" is the *cognate* word.
< 1275083588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what the heck does cognate mean?
< 1275083605 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same etymological origin.
< 1275083614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1275083623 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"<alise> His novels seem shallow to me: they're fancies in the land of irrelevancy; disconnected to any experience that we know because they take place in a hackneyed, fake universe." <<< the less a story has to do with life as we know it, the better it is
< 1275083654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, anyway, this was from a report from some municipality. A journalist I know told me about this. She had to read the report.
< 1275083679 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, why does the Sirius XM app want to directly call phone numbers?
< 1275083686 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, Told me she called the person who wrote it and asked how on earth he thought when he wrote it. He seemed unable to understand why it was an issue.
< 1275083713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of sad really
< 1275083749 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay i finished the log
< 1275083755 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now shut the fuck up plz
< 1275083761 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What report is this?
< 1275083778 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275083788 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi pikhq_ long time no see
< 1275083795 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1275083795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, forgot the details
< 1275083799 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same etymological origin.
< 1275083804 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Examples of cognates are English "gift" and German "gift".
< 1275083807 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the English means "gift". The German means "poison". It apparently developed into "poison" out of a euphemism.)
< 1275083813 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or "royal", "real", "regal", "raj", and a few other words. (we've got cognates for that from every single branch of Indoeuropean in the same language!)
< 1275083820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, and the journalist in question died a few years ago. So no chance of asking her.
< 1275083857 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have cognates from the finnish "kuninkaallinen"
< 1275083858 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1275083873 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right, kingy
< 1275083885 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait
< 1275083889 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those aren't that close
< 1275083898 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except i guess cognate isn't about that
< 1275083904 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: "Close" doesn't necessarily mean "not cognate".
< 1275083911 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Cow" and "bovine" are cognate.
< 1275083916 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes this i realized before i even said what i said
< 1275083917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, hm?
< 1275083919 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1275083934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really?
< 1275083934 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-err
< 1275083936 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They were the same word in Proto-indoeuropean.
< 1275083942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, and what was that word
< 1275083950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems kind of hard to see a common part
< 1275083962 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Lemme check.
< 1275083981 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the finnish "lehmä" is a pretty good gcd
< 1275083994 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo
< 1275084088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, gcd? as in greatest common divisor?
< 1275084103 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cannot has checking.
< 1275084143 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, eh?
< 1275084143 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1275084152 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, there was just a few simple phoneme shifts into "cow" and "bov", and a bunch of odder shifts from there in English...
< 1275084157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1275084166 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"gcd", "inf", "meet"
< 1275084206 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a very, very large number of cognates in English with a different English word, simply because we've got a lot of vocab from two major branches of Indoeuropean.
< 1275084242 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oklopol> "<alise> His novels seem shallow to me: they're fancies in the land of irrelevancy; disconnected to any experience that we know because they take place in a hackneyed, fake universe." <<< the less a story has to do with life as we know it, the better it is
< 1275084242 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we imagine a tree with words as vertices and children being new cognates of their father, and take the natural meets in this tree
< 1275084248 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and the full list of cognates: "right, rich, raj, regalia, reign, royal, real". All cognate.
< 1275084249 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dickens' stories do not happen in any even imaginable universe.
< 1275084281 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"right" :D
< 1275084286 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh also real
< 1275084290 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok sweeties i'm back
< 1275084295 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Sgeo_> I feel like I haven't learned any math since 7th grade or so
< 1275084297 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe we should call them royal numbers
< 1275084298 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you really not understand calculus?
< 1275084303 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am reading your scrollback
< 1275084320 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even I understand calculus
< 1275084324 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't "understand" calculus
< 1275084333 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I learned simple calculus concepts in 6th grade, started to gain some actual understanding in 7th
< 1275084336 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to "see" it for yourself
< 1275084337 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then I stagnated
< 1275084362 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's like saying you "understand" addition; which i guess is perfectly sensible.
< 1275084365 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: f'(x) = lim h->0 (f(x+h) - f(x))/h
< 1275084368 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably you understand that.
< 1275084370 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Indeed.
< 1275084377 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Calculus is a very simple concept, of course.
< 1275084380 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1275084391 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, gah, we've also got cognates from Latin and French and from French and French.
< 1275084402 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: What about cognates from ENGLISH
< 1275084412 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:48:07 <Phantom_Hoover> Can someone opinionated on this tell me what the difference between software and normal patents is?
< 1275084416 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I learned everything I know from Calculus the Easy Way. Things like the quotient rule were not covered
< 1275084417 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :normal patents are on mechanism
< 1275084423 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :software patents are usually on abstract algorithms etc
< 1275084426 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We went over it in class once, I completely forgot it by now
< 1275084428 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the quotient rule again
< 1275084428 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which are expressly forbidden in normal patents
< 1275084431 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I could easily redetermine it
< 1275084432 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Define "from English".
< 1275084434 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :derivative of f/g?
< 1275084441 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's not many words native to the language. :D
< 1275084442 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yeah
< 1275084483 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Oooh, here's one.
< 1275084484 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ultimately, it's just chain + multiplication + exponents(which is trivial)
< 1275084504 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Shadow, shade, and shede" are all from Old English sceadu.
< 1275084507 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the quotient rule is useless to memorize, you can just wp it, and once you learn differentials for functions : R^n -> R^m, you can just always deduce it in your head
< 1275084508 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. Shed.
< 1275084511 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't care much about the actual menial-labour side of finding derivatives.
< 1275084527 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Knight" is one
< 1275084535 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so in short
< 1275084538 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: A shed is a shadowy shade.
< 1275084546 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: What's knight cognate with?
< 1275084558 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know
< 1275084565 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's native to English
< 1275084572 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. Yes, yes it is.
< 1275084575 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In 6th grade however, I didn't quite understand that 1/x = x^-1
< 1275084578 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somehow
< 1275084579 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:36:40 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: software patents have a much longer timespan relative to the length of time the thing they implement remains useful for, than hardware patents
< 1275084580 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:37:04 <ais523> a 50-year-old internal combustion engine might be outmoded nowadays, but it's still potentially useful
< 1275084580 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:37:11 <ais523> 50-year-old software is basically useless
< 1275084580 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:37:27 <ais523> so the idea of patents - to give people a limited monopoly in return for disclosing how the thing works - is subverted
< 1275084581 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:37:42 <ais523> especially as software patents tend not even to disclose how the things works nowadays
< 1275084583 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:37:50 <ais523> old inventions, the idea was you could reproduce the whole thing from the patent
< 1275084583 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tldr: alise is assburgers and gets canned in for being an evil person who plots how to explode people's hearts by dividing big numbers in his head
< 1275084585 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:38:15 <ais523> many modern hardware patents have the same problem, tbh
< 1275084587 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also this
< 1275084590 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: presumably because they didn't explain that's just a definition
< 1275084591 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did i sum it up right alise
< 1275084598 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This hindered my efforts to find an ideal solution to my class's "Star Lottery"
< 1275084608 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: yes... except i'm not assburgers any more than anyone else in here is, and I'm useless at mental arithmetic
< 1275084621 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried working it out in 7th grade, but when I tried to determine the equation that I needed to differentiate... it was 0
< 1275084630 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it's mainly their ocd diagnosis they care about, neither ocd nor aspergers warrant being an inpatient though
< 1275084638 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: tried working what out?
< 1275084647 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was a "star lottery"
< 1275084651 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: that's what you think. in fact you are only a fractional-consciousness of a bigger, more evil mind
< 1275084652 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The class's currency was stars
< 1275084678 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every day or week, I forgot which, the students would put in a number of stars, to get a chance of winning all the stars put in
< 1275084684 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: the one way out for you that i see is to become a t-girl, get a hormone therapy and implants, and sue anyone who treats you how you don't want 'em to
< 1275084706 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: That's a brilliant solution! Or, maybe I will just move country.
< 1275084712 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of moving towards cuntry.
< 1275084719 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Being OCD warrants being a not-inpateint, in fact. :)
< 1275084721 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xDDDDDDDDDDD
< 1275084726 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, i moved out of the uk for good reason
< 1275084727 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: awesome one
< 1275084733 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: Where do you live now?
< 1275084741 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: why thank you. Somehow I think you're being sarcastic :p
< 1275084745 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a fucking depression there and there is absolutely no outlook for people who want to succeed
< 1275084750 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :currently germany
< 1275084754 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: i don't know whether i am
< 1275084761 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thinking a bit of china
< 1275084767 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: Oh, not China.
< 1275084772 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :China's probably a bad idea.
< 1275084772 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have /some/ principles!
< 1275084778 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my biggest hang-up is that i'm not that into asian women
< 1275084790 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm probably destined for the EU.
< 1275084795 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asian women are small and make squeaky noises when you fuck them
< 1275084800 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Easy to migrate to, and, well, most of the nice countries are there.
< 1275084804 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Considering some Nordic country.
< 1275084805 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only problem with them is you can't see their genitals
< 1275084805 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except for Hong Kong; I could probably *manage* to live there.
< 1275084807 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: yes, you should come to germany with me
< 1275084812 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but usually you wouldn't anyway during sex
< 1275084817 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: hahaha i love you
< 1275084831 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Hahahah.
< 1275084831 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: no, you guys like fraktur
< 1275084844 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you know, mice are also small and make squeaky noises when you fuck them
< 1275084847 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't see their genitals, either
< 1275084851 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure you're not confusing the two?
< 1275084870 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: germany is one of the few places in europe without a fucked up economy OR fucked up government
< 1275084873 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Mice don't have pixelation bars over the genitals.
< 1275084877 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: But me likey Nordic countries.
< 1275084884 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: They do on my hard drive 8)
< 1275084891 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: yeah but they aren't humans, humans make the best sex targets
< 1275084892 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: :P
< 1275084898 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: germany has a lot of nordic appeal to it
< 1275084906 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without being extremely expensive
< 1275084910 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: Besides, you're all Nazis.
< 1275084916 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'we'?
< 1275084917 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm polish
< 1275084920 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, Nordic countries are... on the pricey side.
< 1275084923 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: Shut up.
< 1275084925 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275084934 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, oblig.: You left the UK? GOOD RIDDANCE
< 1275084936 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no u
< 1275084944 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :u
< 1275084945 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no u
< 1275084951 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :u
< 1275084951 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: does germany have 100mbit interwebs
< 1275084952 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no u
< 1275084953 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, u.
< 1275084955 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :u
< 1275084958 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, u.
< 1275084960 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :u
< 1275084963 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :u.
< 1275084963 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :u
< 1275084965 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y
< 1275084966 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :u...
< 1275084966 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no u
< 1275084968 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No "u"s.
< 1275084969 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :u!
< 1275084970 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: If you want 100mbit interwebs, avoid the hell out of the US. :)
< 1275084973 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: okay
< 1275084976 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no u
< 1275084980 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I would do that anyway, sir.
< 1275084986 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: no alise said no u
< 1275084986 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: yes, it does
< 1275084987 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about South Korea?
< 1275084995 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :South Korea is nice.
< 1275084995 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAIK they have good interwebs.
< 1275085007 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you mean cheater99, never mind; if you mean me: I can't move out of the EU.
< 1275085010 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it has the problem of being next to North Korea.
< 1275085013 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or rather, I'm not going to.
< 1275085015 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: So does Japan.
< 1275085017 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Immigration is Hard.
< 1275085023 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i also heard us people think the sun revolves around the earth and that god exists
< 1275085026 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though that has the problem of having lingering racism.
< 1275085032 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :south korea... umm... hello south korea is in a war with north korea?
< 1275085042 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: As is the US.
< 1275085048 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who cares
< 1275085055 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have been for all of my grandmother's life.
< 1275085063 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :south korea would get mushroomed
< 1275085078 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, no.
< 1275085079 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: they're not de facto in a war
< 1275085083 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only de jure :P
< 1275085092 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :South Korea is at about as much risk as China.
< 1275085095 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seoul would get hammered with artillery for a weak.
< 1275085101 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/weak/week/
< 1275085105 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :North Korea fires at South: Seoul suffers... then North Korea disappears overnight.
< 1275085111 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :North Korea would cease to support life.
< 1275085122 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like spicy food but radioactive isotopes punching through a concrete wall, then my face and finally landing on my tongue is a bit too extreme
< 1275085142 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: North Korea will not fire at South.
< 1275085144 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: North Korea couldn't even get a nuke *beyond Pyongyang* if they tried, y'know.
< 1275085149 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Simple as that.
< 1275085161 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Pyongyang being the capital of North Korea)
< 1275085177 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they've got, what, 0 nukes ATM?
< 1275085184 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y'all are underestimating human stupidity
< 1275085194 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can we talk more about derivatives or oriental vaginas?
< 1275085198 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y'all are overestimating North Korea's firepower.
< 1275085203 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all this politics is going over my head
< 1275085216 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun fact: kim jong-il is not a total idiot
< 1275085219 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They've got about a week's worth of artillery.
< 1275085222 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, prevent every 2nd word is 'vagina' or 'asian' randomly
< 1275085223 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's evil, yes; evil but smart.
< 1275085226 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neural networks!
< 1275085233 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He would not obliterate his plaything by firing weaponry at Seoul.
< 1275085237 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: Prevent it!
< 1275085248 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm fed up with all of this reading.
< 1275085251 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only reason we don't just give them the finger is that they *could* make life suck for Seoul.
< 1275085253 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : *pretend
< 1275085305 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: Anyway, just go to Japan then :P
< 1275085317 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's kinda like MAD, except that one side will lose a city and the other side will lose the ability to live.
< 1275085319 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know a bit of japanese
< 1275085321 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tiny bit
< 1275085355 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know most hiragana and katakana and know the 'desu' form
< 1275085362 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but my accent is, like, perfect
< 1275085372 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: do you mean i should not use those words as often as i do?
< 1275085376 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I highly doubt that your accent is perfect.
< 1275085392 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given that what you know is at most a few day's worth of learning.
< 1275085402 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, no, i mean you should replace every second word in our polotics conversation with those words
< 1275085407 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How's your pitch stress?
< 1275085412 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm.
< 1275085415 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you want vaginas instead of polotics
< 1275085415 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/stress/accent/
< 1275085419 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: oh pretend
< 1275085433 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: Polotics?
< 1275085434 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yez
< 1275085437 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yez
< 1275085444 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: because you talked about polish people
< 1275085454 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is biopic pronounced "by opick"? If not, it should be,
< 1275085456 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*be.
< 1275085459 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...No I didn't.
< 1275085473 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: how else?
< 1275085473 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Some stress differences, but basically.
< 1275085476 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: Seriously, I *highly* doubt your accent is "perfect". :)
< 1275085488 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good, so it's not "byoh pick".
< 1275085493 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, it's as perfect as it can be
< 1275085494 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: Well, it's bio-graphical pic-ture.
< 1275085501 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, that's how I would say it.
< 1275085502 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: Doubtful.
< 1275085507 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Byoh-pick
< 1275085510 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"By oppik" is nice; the how-you'd-think "Bio pick" is not.
< 1275085516 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: See, I don't like that.
< 1275085530 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't realise biopic was an abbreviation for "bio pic" at first, so I came to pronounce it as "by oppik".
< 1275085540 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's "bio" and "pic" squished together.
< 1275085540 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably don't even get "r" right.
< 1275085541 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, you're comin through as a bad person again
< 1275085560 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What accent?
< 1275085564 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :English or what?
< 1275085575 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: A "Japanese accent". He claims to have a perfect accent in Japanese.
< 1275085586 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1275085589 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I, having spent several years learning Japanese, doubt this.
< 1275085597 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're not polish
< 1275085603 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, of cours.e
< 1275085605 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the polish accent is very similar to japanese
< 1275085614 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: Hahahahah... No.
< 1275085615 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Japanese and Polish are closely related languages.
< 1275085631 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I note that the main part of your seemingly-angry-speak is apparent egotism.
< 1275085643 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: I am making this comment as an entirely-detached observer, not an antagonist.)
< 1275085651 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Alas.
< 1275085667 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I tend to be egotistical about subjects I know a lot about.
< 1275085685 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a friend who is half-Japanese.
< 1275085694 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, i think it's a projection-expectation motivated by low self-esteem which produces expectation of low value in other people
< 1275085702 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: is it pikhq_?
< 1275085712 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: Or, he could just be autistic.
< 1275085713 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1275085734 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As autistic communication tends to have vastly less emotional content than is usual.
< 1275085748 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either way, i was told i have a good accent by two different japanese teachers, one who was japanese, the other lived in japan for a couple decades or something like that
< 1275085752 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's projection-expectation
< 1275085769 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was asked the other day if i used to live in america
< 1275085771 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: Care to record yourself speaking in Japanese for a bit?
< 1275085771 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, i explained further in the same line
< 1275085782 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, no microphone
< 1275085794 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the guy who asked was a french guy so i guess that's doesn't say much :D
< 1275085797 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I've noticed that Japanese teachers seem to set the bar absurdly low for foreign learners.
< 1275085798 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*and*, more importantly, i don't care to continue a pointless argument with you
< 1275085799 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Fancy form of "I know you are, but what am I?"
< 1275085817 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and i was asked that because of my accent, i guess that's sort of important
< 1275085817 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: I don't think pikhq_ is actually arguing...
< 1275085818 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stuff like "Oh, you'll only ever learn a few hundred kanji, give up trying to do more".
< 1275085819 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, maybe that's just projection
< 1275085833 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: what is he doing then?
< 1275085843 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: Strongly disagreeing.
< 1275085855 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: oh okay
< 1275085877 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite strongly.
< 1275085878 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so did you mean "projection -- expectation ..."
< 1275085892 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or did you mean projection-expectation, and i'm still misunderstanding
< 1275085894 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Projexpectation.
< 1275085900 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, i meant 'projection-expectation'.
< 1275085906 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Projspectation.
< 1275085918 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :projspecatcumshot
< 1275085920 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prospectation.
< 1275085929 0 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275085934 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Proctation
< 1275085942 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Protation.
< 1275085944 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(seriously, though, "know the desu form"? Congrats, you've spent a couple minutes learning the language! YOU ARE WINNER)
< 1275085945 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Potation.
< 1275085948 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Potato.
< 1275085970 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am showing irc to my grandmother
< 1275085979 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not a good idea.
< 1275085980 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've learned about a hundred chinese kanji whatever they're called from just watching tv series with subtitles
< 1275085989 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, Sgeo's grandmother!
< 1275086017 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also know someone who once did Chinese.
< 1275086023 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(desu is the copula. Japanese has a SOV sentence order. Subjects are followed by "wa" or "ga". CONGRATS, YOU, THE READER, KNOW THE DESU FORM!)
< 1275086049 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Copula?
< 1275086062 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Kanji, hanxi, hanja, chu nom, depending on the language.
< 1275086073 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu
< 1275086074 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: actually i'm not even 100% it's chinese
< 1275086077 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1275086091 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Copulas in other languages are "is", "estas", "est"...
< 1275086097 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i call it the language i decided to start learning from subtitles
< 1275086100 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: What language?
< 1275086113 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's this streaming place called tudou
< 1275086116 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> and the longer you expose the ASIC wafer to the doping agent, the deeper the p-type or n-type region goes
< 1275086121 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Doping agent" is officially the best name for weed ever.
< 1275086134 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I'm exposing my thinking wafer to the doping agent... maaaan"
< 1275086155 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"i" is this weird x thing, plural is one of the few characters where density is distributed as |^|
< 1275086157 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: hanja and chu nom no longer in use as normal orthographies.)
< 1275086160 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:32:59 <Phantom_Hoover> Oh, god, the Koreas are at it again.
< 1275086162 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, it started again?
< 1275086166 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure you can deduce it from that
< 1275086184 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: No newspapers in the unit?
< 1275086198 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: South Korea has accused Chosen of an act of war.
< 1275086200 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No. I could watch the news, I guess, if I went to my room and fought with the tiny television.
< 1275086206 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't much see the point, though.
< 1275086213 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Because?
< 1275086213 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chosen is responding by preparing for war.
< 1275086225 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :newspapers can be dangerous for your weak mind
< 1275086227 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chosen torpedoed a South Korean vessel.
< 1275086273 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: So, you made me google Chosen.
< 1275086278 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Howsabout we call it North Korea?
< 1275086287 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll settle for Corea if you're gonna be That Guy :P
< 1275086298 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"but weekday mom, what is all this violence doing in the world :("
< 1275086310 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol weekday mom
< 1275086316 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :best i could do
< 1275086325 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the interchangability of staff as the shifts wade in and out is actually quite unnerving
< 1275086329 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people just disappear and appear.
< 1275086338 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise
< 1275086345 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's something i never understood in britain
< 1275086349 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you never see kids
< 1275086350 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EVER
< 1275086354 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where are they
< 1275086355 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Define kids.
< 1275086359 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see teenagers an awful lot.
< 1275086365 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :persons of age under 17
< 1275086367 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: They're too busy knifing each other.
< 1275086369 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...But... children... huh, you are right.
< 1275086371 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, you're a kid yourself
< 1275086376 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1275086377 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: you have to look down, they're small hahaha
< 1275086377 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's our overprotective culture.
< 1275086382 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: I know that much.
< 1275086384 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, aww
< 1275086384 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha
< 1275086385 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha
< 1275086393 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm small and light!
< 1275086395 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: ok, so let's say a 12 year old
< 1275086396 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, they're never allowed out in case of paedophiles.
< 1275086397 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :39 kilos or thereabouts
< 1275086397 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Sorry, that's the Japanese coming through.
< 1275086405 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: this
< 1275086408 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they get woken up and stay at home until 8 then go to school yes?
< 1275086410 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've never seen alise q.e.d.
< 1275086416 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then they're at school until say 4 pm
< 1275086418 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's next?
< 1275086422 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happens?
< 1275086425 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: PRAYSTATION TREE
< 1275086444 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never go outside either.
< 1275086450 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: It's normally shortened as éź“ĺ›˝ for South Korea and ćśťé®® for North Korea.
< 1275086457 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("Korea" and "Chosen", translated)
< 1275086464 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean prayushtashyonu tri
< 1275086472 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the North, Kijong-dong features a number of brightly painted, poured-concrete multi-story buildings and apartments with electric lighting. These features represented an unheard of level of luxury for rural Koreans, north or south, in the 1950s. The town was oriented so that the bright blue roofs and white sides of the buildings would be the most distinguishing features when viewed from the border. However scrutiny with modern telescopic lenses reveals tha
< 1275086473 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there unfortunately tend to be other youths outside whenever I doo.
< 1275086473 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t the buildings are mere concrete shells lacking window glass or even interior rooms[17][18], with the building lights turned on and off at set times and the empty sidewalks swept by a skeleton crew of caretakers in an effort to preserve the illusion of activity.[19]
< 1275086474 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow
< 1275086520 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol wtf is that?
< 1275086520 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow indeed.
< 1275086524 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahah
< 1275086534 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: it's in the demilitarised zone
< 1275086536 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like that movie with jim carrey
< 1275086543 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where he's in a big tv set
< 1275086549 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi how are you
< 1275086549 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :south korea has one too although people are actually there
< 1275086552 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: truman show
< 1275086554 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah lol
< 1275086556 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1275086557 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1275086559 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like they're trying to convince each other
< 1275086567 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was my grandmother typing
< 1275086569 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I know we've agreed not to kill each other here... but my dick is way bigger than yours."
< 1275086576 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: I hope your grandmother doesn't see that.
< 1275086577 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is all
< 1275086579 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1, tits or gtfo
< 1275086587 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1275086600 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was wondering why that didn't happen the first time Sgeo_ mentioned what was happening
< 1275086608 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: have you never been to irc?
< 1275086610 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't notice
< 1275086634 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The official position of the North Korean government is that the village contains a 200-family collective farm, serviced by a childcare center, kindergarten, primary and secondary schools, and a hospital.[10] However, observation from the south suggests that the town is actually an uninhabited Potemkin village built at great expense in the 1950s in a propaganda effort to encourage South Korean defection and to house the PRK soldiers manning the extensive net
< 1275086634 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :work of artillery positions, fortifications and underground marshalling bunkers that abut the border zone.[3][4][11][12] Though no visitors are allowed, it is the only settlement in North Korea within direct eye- and earshot of the Korean DMZ, and by extension, the West.
< 1275086636 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you asking me or her?
< 1275086648 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so anyways
< 1275086657 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the german eurovision contestant actually sings well
< 1275086658 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is hot
< 1275086664 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i would shag her
< 1275086672 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :she's still loli enough for me
< 1275086676 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :german women aren't hot, they're engineered superhumans.
< 1275086686 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: well i guess i was assuming you didn't want your grandma to see anything dirty, i'm not sure why.
< 1275086688 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try Sine
< 1275086690 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :she's very well engineered indeed
< 1275086697 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: Your grandmother is presumably having an apoplectic fit by now.
< 1275086700 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: are you british english, or are you from an immigrant family?
< 1275086710 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oklopol, she can barely see the screen
< 1275086744 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :British.
< 1275086747 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :She's not reading any of this, I'm reading for her
< 1275086749 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm about as native as they come.
< 1275086759 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: who's loli now
< 1275086769 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, german eurovision girl
< 1275086791 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lena_Meyer-Landrut
< 1275086792 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i looked it up
< 1275086793 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If Sgeo's grandmother knows what loli is I'm more than a little disturbed.
< 1275086802 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: are you like, the kind of british person who wouldn't look out of place spectating polo or tennis or in a gentlemen's club?
< 1275086804 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAH!
< 1275086807 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, she want to eat now. I'm saying bye on her behalf
< 1275086814 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: Um. I'm 14.
< 1275086823 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: yeah, but i mean when you grow up
< 1275086824 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and are 30
< 1275086825 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I look very female though :P
< 1275086829 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1, BYE!!! COME BACK SOON
< 1275086835 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you wear ridiculous dresses?
< 1275086836 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: EAT COCKS
< 1275086842 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lise: tht's not what i'm asking about
< 1275086846 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No, I just have long hair and a relatively ambiguous face.
< 1275086846 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise*
< 1275086856 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Tht
< 1275086862 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Always capitalise the first letter of sentences
< 1275086863 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: i wouldn't say she's very loli
< 1275086868 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Wear a fake beard.
< 1275086871 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, would you make a good t-girl
< 1275086872 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1275086879 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, she's got a small build
< 1275086887 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: You just want me to grow breasts, don't you.
< 1275086890 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or a moustache.
< 1275086897 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, you should see her in 'live' broadcasts
< 1275086900 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: yes
< 1275086907 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed, you could have a ridiculous handlebar.
< 1275086907 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha I thought by she you meant me
< 1275086913 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: i want you to be a magnificent being
< 1275086921 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND SIDEBURNS/
< 1275086922 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: yes probably
< 1275086923 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Creepy level rising.
< 1275086936 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've seen alise in live broadcasts
< 1275086939 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan! fizzie! lament!
< 1275086943 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least ones recorded just for me
< 1275086947 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is even better
< 1275086950 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: you should totally get on stickam
< 1275086969 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it was not for masturbation purposes, it was about music
< 1275086970 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: no you haven't :P
< 1275086975 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh umm
< 1275086975 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think
< 1275086977 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't recall
< 1275086979 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what sort of music?
< 1275086982 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes i think i have
< 1275086987 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: It was me demonstrating my inability to play the theremin
< 1275086993 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :partly
< 1275086995 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I am not going on webcam.
< 1275086998 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have a theremin?
< 1275087000 0 :bsmntbombdood_!~gavin@174-16-213-108.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275087000 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clothed or otherwise.
< 1275087002 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes.
< 1275087007 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to play one.
< 1275087012 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With my cat.
< 1275087016 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It's hard. You won't be able to do it.
< 1275087019 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm gonna play one when i go visit alise
< 1275087020 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1275087023 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'm gonna own at it
< 1275087024 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or indeed to put my cat on it.
< 1275087027 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, the key is to maintain relative pitch.. you can't maintain absolute pitch on it
< 1275087028 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I told her that there are some people who, upon seeing that someone brought their grandmother to IRC, would say dirty things just to be mean, she said she didn't want to talk to that sort of person
< 1275087029 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I thought I was visiting you
< 1275087031 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise is gonna go like WTF DUDE
< 1275087032 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1275087034 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well bring it
< 1275087038 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: lollll
< 1275087044 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: ok
< 1275087054 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION heads for alise's location with a giant magnet
< 1275087056 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But no, she only knows what I told her of chat, which is very, very, little
< 1275087078 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So she didn't hear anything of lolis, or Tits or GTFO, or any such thing
< 1275087085 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what!!
< 1275087089 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Until 2004, massive loudspeakers mounted on several of the buildings continuously delivered DPRK propaganda broadcasts directed towards the south as well as propaganda radio broadcasts across the border.[17] In May 2010, due to the sinking of the ROKS Cheonan, South Korea resumed broadcasting news, western music and programmes comparing the political and economic situations on the two parts of the peninsula.[20]
< 1275087091 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Theremins?
< 1275087092 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't say lolis to be mean
< 1275087098 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i said tits or gtfo to be nice
< 1275087106 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: lol
< 1275087107 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's wrong with you man :<
< 1275087122 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"<cheater99> alise, the key is to maintain relative pitch.. you can't maintain absolute pitch on it" kinda like you can't sing in absolute pitch
< 1275087147 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can sing in absolute pitch *sometimes*
< 1275087155 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if there are good IRC channels for seniors
< 1275087163 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1275087163 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not on Freenode.
< 1275087166 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a list on lemonparty.org
< 1275087168 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for this your voice and/or hearing have to be imperfect in very specific ways
< 1275087170 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::|
< 1275087176 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irc.lemonparty.org
< 1275087206 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: my point was (you'd know if you'd read my mind) that that's not helpful to alise in any way
< 1275087209 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i don't remember the irc server's domain.. check lemonparty.org for their list of ervers or something
< 1275087222 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, that totally didn't come through
< 1275087231 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i didn't say anything related to it
< 1275087239 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. you haven't.
< 1275087259 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have my own ways of communicating and people seem to love them
< 1275087270 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some reason I'm flattered that cheater99 thinks i should grow breasts
< 1275087274 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think that actually makes any sense
< 1275087280 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awww lena is so cute
< 1275087285 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who's lena
< 1275087291 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it happened to Turing...
< 1275087301 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i herd turing was a homo
< 1275087302 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really bad taste, that.
< 1275087309 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that neurovision girl from germany
< 1275087313 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lena is presumably that http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lena_Meyer-Landrut girl again
< 1275087315 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel sullied having said it.
< 1275087326 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1275087329 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1275087332 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't read the name
< 1275087334 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1275087339 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turing was the first trans-sexual in computing!
< 1275087349 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You fail at stuff.
< 1275087355 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the first snow white
< 1275087358 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i heard something like he was a gay homosexual
< 1275087360 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He was chemically castrated.
< 1275087368 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're filling big shoes alise
< 1275087370 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i read a book about him
< 1275087374 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a kid
< 1275087387 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no he wasn't castrated he was given estrogen
< 1275087395 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which made him grow breasts
< 1275087400 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := trans
< 1275087400 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99 speaks truth.
< 1275087403 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chemically castrated.
< 1275087411 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: is it really trans/gender/ if he was male, though?
< 1275087415 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :transsexual, yes.
< 1275087417 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :transgender no
< 1275087428 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i said trans-sexual
< 1275087437 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trans-gender means post-op i think
< 1275087441 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i might be wrong
< 1275087451 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1275087452 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1275087457 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Turing was given a choice between imprisonment or probation conditional on his agreement to undergo hormonal  treatment designed to reduce libido. He accepted chemical castration via oestrogen hormone injections.[41]"
< 1275087461 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe turing was actually transhuman, and would've outgrown any human sex or gender eventually?
< 1275087465 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :transgender -- gender identity; i.e. "you" in your mind; transsexual -- genitals
< 1275087474 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Not* transsexual.
< 1275087475 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually transgendered people have a goal to become transsexuals.
< 1275087484 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor transgendered, in fact.
< 1275087485 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: estrogen, though.
< 1275087487 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he grew boobs.
< 1275087489 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not the same.
< 1275087492 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QED.
< 1275087494 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he grew tits
< 1275087500 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not transsexual.
< 1275087501 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q FUCKING E D
< 1275087511 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover is trolling
< 1275087512 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!op
< 1275087518 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Secondary sexual characteristics != transsexual.
< 1275087520 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean he was pretty awesome, much of the stuff neumann is world-famous for was done by turing as well, and iirc turing has some sort of machines named after him too
< 1275087528 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok then hermaphrodite
< 1275087529 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice the fun
< 1275087537 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO!
< 1275087539 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean von neumann?
< 1275087539 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(probably some sort of gay sex machines but it's still pretty cool)
< 1275087543 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1275087552 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you mean neumann the guy who came up with microphones
< 1275087552 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1275087558 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i'd probably go for an hermaphroditing operation, that would be cool
< 1275087575 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION waits for someone to check if that's even consistent timelinewise
< 1275087581 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't really trust my memory
< 1275087584 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've seen some post-op porn
< 1275087586 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't hot
< 1275087600 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait
< 1275087603 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look, Turing had oestrogen. This caused him to be chemically castrated (i.e. making him infertile and reducing his libido)
< 1275087610 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: www.buckangel.com
< 1275087610 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but post-op gets rid of your penis
< 1275087613 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It did *not* make him female.
< 1275087613 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and gives you a bad vagina
< 1275087628 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hermaphroditation would keep the peen
< 1275087632 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no loss, you see
< 1275087640 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the vagina is still bad
< 1275087650 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: why do you want this to be looked at, it's irrelevant
< 1275087661 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: ffff why did you link me to that
< 1275087667 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's pedantry.
< 1275087668 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: who said, i'm describing a magical operation
< 1275087673 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's always relevant
< 1275087679 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody's thought of how to do it yet, therefore i declare that it produces a perfectly fine vagina
< 1275087690 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: so you know what you're gettin' in2
< 1275087717 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: I never said I would get into it
< 1275087725 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I jokingly said I would hypothetically get into a hypothetical operation
< 1275087730 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> actually i'd probably go for an hermaphroditing operation, that would be cool
< 1275087739 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*actually* is the opposite of *hypothetically*
< 1275087756 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not when the operation itself is hypothetical.
< 1275087756 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shut up* is the opposite of *don't shut up*
< 1275087762 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I said
< 1275087764 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"actually, I'd ..."
< 1275087767 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you fix the punctuation
< 1275087771 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this instance actually means
< 1275087775 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"contrary to what I previously said, ..."
< 1275087783 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who wouldn't be hermaphrodited, you'd get to do all kinds of stuff
< 1275087811 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel it necessary at this point to mention the Culture.
< 1275087822 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to read the Culture books sometime.
< 1275087824 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who's the culture?
< 1275087831 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh books
< 1275087841 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: DO IT.
< 1275087855 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless books aren't allowed into the unit.
< 1275087880 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Start on The Player Of Games)
< 1275087891 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Consider Phlebas is just confusing)
< 1275087903 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: you're trying to talk yourself out of what you are
< 1275087903 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1275087920 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean
< 1275087947 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: go and pioneer the hermaphroditing operation then
< 1275087952 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll be 43rd in line
< 1275087966 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok but first you have to jack off to that: http://buckangelentertainment.com/promo/muscleman.jpg
< 1275087967 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first 42?
< 1275087981 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I will start at the beginning and continue on until I reach the end, and then stop.
< 1275087993 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: no
< 1275087999 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: well it might go wrong
< 1275088006 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :come on
< 1275088016 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't be a fun spoiler
< 1275088026 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sort of doubting that you're not kidding now :P
< 1275088032 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: you don't see the pussy that well
< 1275088052 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess that's art
< 1275088053 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, http://buckangelentertainment.com/promo/laidback.jpg
< 1275088066 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :witness the magnificence
< 1275088078 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much better
< 1275088098 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Anyway, I'm delaying reading too many books 'til I'm out of the unit.
< 1275088104 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not a clear enough mind to fully enjoy them.
< 1275088106 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, how old are you?
< 1275088111 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: he's 21 or sth
< 1275088116 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's always been this fun
< 1275088118 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah or sth
< 1275088119 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow that was quick
< 1275088124 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, 21..
< 1275088127 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or sth
< 1275088128 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not loli enough anymore ;[
< 1275088140 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm pretty sure he still looks loli
< 1275088143 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although is it loli when it's male
< 1275088145 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think it is sir
< 1275088175 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait was cheater99 gay
< 1275088189 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you considered "bi"
< 1275088198 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who what
< 1275088199 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just plain "pedo" :p
< 1275088200 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1275088205 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have not
< 1275088215 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you people must be talking about someone else
< 1275088249 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"<cheater99> not loli enough anymore ;[" <<< i understood this as you being sad about not being able to get a boner off me anymore
< 1275088249 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok is the movie 'anatomy' cool
< 1275088254 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it's a german movie
< 1275088255 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i'm too old
< 1275088256 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't know
< 1275088258 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore gay pedo
< 1275088267 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they start off by showing a naked woman
< 1275088275 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: i use sven s porst to get all my german opinions
< 1275088288 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is sven s porst
< 1275088293 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's this guy http://earthlingsoft.net/ssp/blog/
< 1275088329 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That reminds me of Quarter Life...
< 1275088427 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: it's rude not to answer and not to say you're not gonna
< 1275088436 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275088440 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ok, why?
< 1275088453 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, as in, why are you reading that blog in the first place
< 1275088465 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: because he used to be a nice ranty guy when i used os x and was sufficiently OCD about tiny things that apple fucked up... so i just started reading his blog
< 1275088485 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :need: "german guy who has opinions": satisfied
< 1275088499 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did you have that need
< 1275088499 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have an opinion
< 1275088511 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you need finnish guy who has an opinion
< 1275088514 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: well you just asked me an opinion on a german thing
< 1275088514 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so...
< 1275088516 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yes
< 1275088522 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: what is your opinion
< 1275088522 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nnnnice.
< 1275088525 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on what?
< 1275088560 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you said you had an opinion
< 1275088560 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it
< 1275088564 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: yes, but i think you said you had that need before you started habitually reading his blog
< 1275088566 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1275088570 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that it's a good thing
< 1275088583 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: what is it
< 1275088586 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: nope
< 1275088590 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: What is your opinion of oranges.
< 1275088599 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat den
< 1275088607 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't particularly care for oranges, because they are hard to eat
< 1275088617 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1275088626 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oranges are just a bit meh.
< 1275088627 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1275088633 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this guy woke up on an operation table
< 1275088642 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nd they're cutting out his guts
< 1275088644 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha nice
< 1275088647 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not a lol thing
< 1275088651 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275088658 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a HOLY MOTHER OF FUCK PAIN PAIN PAIN PAIN thing
< 1275088664 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: no it's a lol thing
< 1275088670 0 :Rugxulo!~Rugxulo@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275088674 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh rofl
< 1275088681 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would you feel if I told you that that happened to me?
< 1275088684 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow this is fucking amazingly terrible
< 1275088687 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: gahahaha.
< 1275088690 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you guys need to watch this movie
< 1275088691 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my opinion food should be eatable without any complications, i tolerate a few minutes of preparatory work per serving, but oranges need concentration during the whole eating process, because they spill their spillings everywhere and shit
< 1275088695 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: It didn't happen to me)
< 1275088719 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i spill my spillings everywhere and shit LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO
< 1275088722 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahem
< 1275088728 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he looks at his hand
< 1275088731 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and his fore-arm is like
< 1275088739 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: if it happened to you it would not be funny, if it happened to someone i don't know, it's pretty funny.
< 1275088740 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :half-stripped of flesh in random places
< 1275088757 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what movie?
< 1275088757 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks fairly silly but it's believable in the moment
< 1275088788 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :caring about people you don't know is against human nature and makes everyone sad
< 1275088806 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'anatomie'
< 1275088810 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or 'anatomy' in english
< 1275088827 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about people known by people I know?
< 1275088841 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: ah, interesting
< 1275088843 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get five degrees
< 1275088846 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let us think about this
< 1275088846 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :six includes everyone
< 1275088849 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so five is the max
< 1275088857 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :five degrees of kevin bacon
< 1275088866 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :six degrees of paul erdos
< 1275088876 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eight degrees of bill gates
< 1275088895 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one degree of hivemind
< 1275088900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1275088903 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O
< 1275088909 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it would be zero degrees
< 1275088915 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what degrees
< 1275088921 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_
< 1275088921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kelvin
< 1275088924 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what shocked me
< 1275088929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, ^
< 1275088930 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the '1'
< 1275088935 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: i think you should pretend to care about them when interacting with people who know them
< 1275088941 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the humane thing to do
< 1275088951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, who was that directed to?
< 1275088956 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that if oklopol were ever to come into control of the world, we would all be fucked.
< 1275088962 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm not even sure which sense of the word I mean.
< 1275088968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, XD
< 1275088983 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: DOG FOOD FOR EVERYONE
< 1275088985 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i would be a great dictator just because they say dictators always go mad with power and kill everyone
< 1275089007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, aww, no soylent green?
< 1275089010 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sort of reverse psychology works well on me
< 1275089022 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i would really hate it if you said "quack" right now
< 1275089037 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that kind does not
< 1275089047 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it's well known that oklopols do not say "quack".
< 1275089048 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever
< 1275089060 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, I suggest you say "tweet" right here
< 1275089062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P
< 1275089064 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's better already
< 1275089066 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tweet
< 1275089070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1275089076 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better than quack anyway
< 1275089087 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"tweet" right here boy ;P
< 1275089089 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;;;;P
< 1275089093 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1275089110 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :be less stupid alise you sound like a 14-yo kid
< 1275089122 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want pizza but to get it i would have to make it
< 1275089130 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would mean microwave
< 1275089135 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't cae sentence
< 1275089147 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what yes
< 1275089148 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just call up a pizza delivery place and give them moneys
< 1275089156 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't have clothes on
< 1275089166 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i don't want to put any one until i absolutely have to
< 1275089171 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*on
< 1275089178 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who said you have to
< 1275089197 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i don't want to be creepy
< 1275089212 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: that, my dear friend, you have already failed at.
< 1275089213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? really?
< 1275089254 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :put the money through the mail slot, they'll leave it at the door, get it when they leave
< 1275089254 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm considered hivemind?
< 1275089288 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: that sounds like a really complicated social procedure
< 1275089299 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"hello pizza bad english man here"
< 1275089312 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you could use your internet-connected pizza dispenser
< 1275089314 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in other ways too
< 1275089316 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be plugged into your computer
< 1275089321 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish i had one of those
< 1275089323 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go to pizza:/// to browse the available pizza options for that device
< 1275089328 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you mean my gf
< 1275089330 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you will receive your free internet pizza
< 1275089343 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: haha that works
< 1275089382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you mean http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pizza_box_form_factor ?
< 1275089394 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually it's the other way around, she's pretty lazy
< 1275089399 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, AnMaster lives
< 1275089407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*yawn*
< 1275089407 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://nedroid.com/comics/2010-01-01-beartato-newyearnewchanges.gif
< 1275089414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, try go on at times I'm more awake
< 1275089415 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dumb question, but do you get out for summer break over there?
< 1275089419 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Free internet pizza.
< 1275089424 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: partially, I presume.
< 1275089425 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, what?
< 1275089431 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :school
< 1275089431 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: unit, presumably.
< 1275089449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh summer break starts in about 1-2 weeks or such
< 1275089459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ends sometime in August
< 1275089463 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is Rugxulo swedish
< 1275089464 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, all I wanted to say the other day was that Erlang seems a bit strange for Befunge-98
< 1275089467 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1275089467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, no
< 1275089470 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :American
< 1275089476 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1275089479 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not me then :P
< 1275089489 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some (most?) schools over here just started break
< 1275089503 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: are you really embarrassed
< 1275089509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, last dead line is June 11. for a lab report
< 1275089518 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: oh, and Rexx supports bignums out-of-the-box, but it may not be what you want
< 1275089522 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death
< 1275089523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some exams on monday and uh thursday iirc
< 1275089525 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: no
< 1275089532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, rexx?
< 1275089538 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, remember I mentioned it before?
< 1275089547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, yeah but I don't remember what it was
< 1275089550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I remember the name
< 1275089562 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: good to know
< 1275089563 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :popular scripting language for OS/2 and Amiga and IBM mainframes
< 1275089575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, none of those platforms are relevant to me
< 1275089580 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously
< 1275089595 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also been ported to most other platforms (see Regina or BRexx for Linux)
< 1275089598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, now, if plan9 had been in the list it might have been different.
< 1275089602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway
< 1275089621 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember? I mentioned ooREXX, which you didn't seem too impressed with   ;-)
< 1275089623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go write befunge98 in it yourself :)
< 1275089637 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't want or need to (and already wrote B93, which was easy)
< 1275089664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, apart from smalltalk and (to some degree) objc, there are few languages which are doing OOP the "right way" IMO
< 1275089676 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, the other advantage of REXX is easy to learn, no reserved keywords, good string handling, etc.
< 1275089678 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OOP the right way: "Nothing whatsoever"
< 1275089688 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OOP is a big buzzword for most things these days
< 1275089694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well, relatively speaking. Also I thought you liked smalltalk?
< 1275089695 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost all languages have it
< 1275089703 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all hyped languages, anyways
< 1275089707 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Smalltalk is not "OOP" at all really.
< 1275089716 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet it inspired Objective-C
< 1275089737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well, maybe, depends on exact definition of OOP
< 1275089754 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ask Alan Kay if you don't believe me :)
< 1275089760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, who?
< 1275089768 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?!
< 1275089777 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only the most important person in the history of personal computing.
< 1275089787 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bill Gates?   ;-)   j/k
< 1275089787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I invoke ais523 on you
< 1275089793 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Invented the portable computer -- Dynabook; invented Smalltalk; major guy at Xerox PARC...
< 1275089796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, Linus Torvalds!
< 1275089800 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, seriously; ais523 knows who Alan Kay is.
< 1275089803 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about Douglas Engbart (sp?) ?
< 1275089814 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Yes, him too.
< 1275089820 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RMS invented teh GNU, he pwns Lin00z!
< 1275089823 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But seriously... anyone who doesn't know Kay should not be in computing.
< 1275089825 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sarcasm)
< 1275089832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait. Theo de Raadt!
< 1275089835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION runs
< 1275089853 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and don't forget Andy Tannenbaum, Kernighan and Ritchie, Wirth, etc. etc.
< 1275089877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I suck at remembering names. Had to google openbsd to check the name of the guy (Theo de Raadt that is)
< 1275089885 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fabrice Bellard probably counts too    ;-)
< 1275089898 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Actually I made up the term "object-oriented", and I can tell you I did not have C++ in mind. ...Or Smalltalk." --Alan Kay
< 1275089902 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(inventor of Smalltalk)
< 1275089921 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ borrowed from Simula
< 1275089926 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or so I heard
< 1275089933 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt anyone could have C++ in mind when discussing anything vaguely related to good design.
< 1275089938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, heh
< 1275089956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_++
< 1275089956 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously, Kay is a genius and even his recent work at VPRI is great.
< 1275089961 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :pikhq
< 1275089965 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ is perfect! (five years later) no, now it's perfect! (five years later) okay, seriously, now it's perfect
< 1275089969 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(pun intended)
< 1275089982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, it never was and never will be
< 1275090009 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Even a *simple* change would make using it less like getting kicked in the crotch: garbage collection.
< 1275090016 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously, why does every language get extended into OOP?
< 1275090024 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: hype.
< 1275090036 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"object-oriented programming is the roman numerals of computing" --Rob Pike.
< 1275090043 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(still annoying, but god... *Manual memory management* with all that going on.)
< 1275090053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, no. Erlang doesn't have OOP.
< 1275090088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there is a HUGE resistance to it amongst the core devs.
< 1275090093 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erlang++
< 1275090108 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every other language seems to tack it on
< 1275090110 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Haskell allows for abstract datatypes which can contain functions that can close over the value of that abstract datatype.
< 1275090127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, do you know why erlang doesn't JIT btw? Because it makes the (soft) realtime properties harder to predict
< 1275090132 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus, it allows for OOP by accident. :P
< 1275090143 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soft and welcoming.
< 1275090152 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i turned you into a haskell zealot
< 1275090152 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww
< 1275090153 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gives Erlang an Exlax so it can JIT properly
< 1275090154 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cute
< 1275090159 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu: btw you are familiar with thue right?
< 1275090162 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: no mutation, thus making "OOP" not useful.)
< 1275090163 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::3
< 1275090171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, exlax?
< 1275090176 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :laxative
< 1275090184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get the joke still
< 1275090194 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poop inducer
< 1275090197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless... no it can't be that bad
< 1275090203 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: :P
< 1275090204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, yes I know what a laxative is
< 1275090205 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JIT as in rhyming with sh*t
< 1275090217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, okay even worse than I thought
< 1275090218 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has to explain his horribly corny joke, ugh, sounds worse than it was
< 1275090219 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: You seem to not grok what a JIT does.
< 1275090220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shame on you
< 1275090226 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. Wait.
< 1275090229 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Terrible pun.
< 1275090235 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You seem to make terrible puns.
< 1275090236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I thought it was a pun on "shit just in time or such"
< 1275090239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this is worse
< 1275090241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much worse
< 1275090246 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I admit, my humor is lame
< 1275090254 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, worse than mine in fact
< 1275090257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is quite a feat
< 1275090301 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that was horribly bad
< 1275090307 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shame on you
< 1275090327 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes i like to poop out these horribly bad jokes just because i can
< 1275090330 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quack, tweet, ...
< 1275090342 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, here's some demonstration of elliottcable faggotry
< 1275090347 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[/* I wrote “Hello, world!” for whatever mad, mad genius wrote this version of Brainfuck: http://pastie.org/private/siw6uoan1cd6shuao7r8hw */]]
< 1275090360 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad, mad genius for OMG REASSIGNING SOME OF THE BRAINFUCK COMMANDS TO BE SIMILAR LOOKING SYMBOLS
< 1275090366 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ``unicode quotes''
< 1275090404 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't get that at all
< 1275090421 0 :gm|lap!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275090424 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can the parens be un matched like that
< 1275090444 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :itz wacky
< 1275090447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, I think it is two columns?
< 1275090452 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope
< 1275090455 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of those is one instruction
< 1275090459 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAHAHA EVIL GENIUSDF sdoijghk hAHAhasf
< 1275090465 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, one of the is C!
< 1275090467 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can i see the  program?
< 1275090479 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it too scary
< 1275090486 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Ayttm logging off
< 1275090491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so yes I think it is two columns, one weird, and one C
< 1275090493 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, elliottcable calls **s "metapointers".
< 1275090504 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://gist.github.com/402586
< 1275090509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, would ***s be hyperpointers then?
< 1275090510 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently the name of the language is "bewbs"
< 1275090513 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
< 1275090528 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://gist.github.com/290108 you make me want to murder your person
< 1275090533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, superpointers, ****s would be hyperpointer
< 1275090536 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://gist.github.com/raw/295344/fbf2ac6ab9e5df7414a126d8f98272ee745d0fcd/gistfile1.txt <-- ITT: irritating retard
< 1275090547 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(elliottcable that is)
< 1275090551 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also he's a republican
< 1275090553 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in alaska
< 1275090558 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I.E.: he likes sarah palin
< 1275090586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch
< 1275090589 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, he was part of the overnight Let's Fuck Up IRCNomic with Stupid Rules that Only Further the Game's Demise, then Say "lol" About It brigade
< 1275090596 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I am saying is: if he returns here...
< 1275090601 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's tell him to fuck off
< 1275090608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :up to youy
< 1275090610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you*
< 1275090621 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm absent 5/7 weekdays.
< 1275090623 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I don't remember that
< 1275090633 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: i was the only one who read the logs
< 1275090640 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and fixed shit
< 1275090651 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do the logs still exist anywhere?
< 1275090658 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, iirc, I sold my soul to you
< 1275090700 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think metapointer might be okay terminology in some contexts
< 1275090708 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: he just made it up to sound faggy there though
< 1275090712 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and to cover up the fact that he doesn't know C
< 1275090718 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also note that he painstakingly uses unicode ellipses
< 1275090722 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where three .s would do
< 1275090729 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1275090738 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :< clusty>	what does dmesg have to say abut it?
< 1275090738 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-!- You're now known as dmesg
< 1275090738 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :< dmesg>	nothing.
< 1275090738 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-!- You're now known as elliottcable
< 1275090739 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--his BLAG
< 1275090742 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha ha HAHAHAHAHAhahash
< 1275090745 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's fucking hilarious.
< 1275090753 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that was horrible, that's like non-monospaced^7 when you take ... and squeeze it in one letter
< 1275090770 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://elliottcable.tumblr.com/post/614173094/http-elliottcable-tumblr-com-post-389548350-terna half the posts on his blog are just himself being fucktarded
< 1275090793 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, are you obsessed with this guy or?
< 1275090802 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well of course, they have the same name
< 1275090803 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, no
< 1275090809 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just he was a huge fucking retard & asshole to me a while back
< 1275090810 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is very curious about what alise says behind my back
< 1275090815 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I decided to dredge up everything about him I could
< 1275090825 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to admire how idiotic he was
< 1275090837 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also all of this is very easy to find in like a few clicks and i don't have anything else to do
< 1275090839 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: not much.
< 1275090868 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://elliottcable.tumblr.com/post/597606519/we-want-to-fly-the-plane-say-snakes-but <<< xD
< 1275090870 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i lol'd
< 1275090902 0 :Rugxulo!~user@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275090927 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's going on bitches
< 1275090953 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, your mother is a bitch.
< 1275090955 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not much
< 1275090979 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, why does Pandora have my RL name?
< 1275090980 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1275090981 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slightly warm pre-summer weather
< 1275090994 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a conspiracy, Sgeo.
< 1275091005 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: I don't know Seth Gold
< 1275091009 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, i didn't get the one about plane/tail
< 1275091011 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does Pandora have Seth Gold's real name?
< 1275091012 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :explain it to me
< 1275091037 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have my FB picture
< 1275091045 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who, Pandora?
< 1275091051 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: i don't get it either
< 1275091057 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember signing onto FB from my normal Pandora account
< 1275091061 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might have signed in once
< 1275091063 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, ok
< 1275091064 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was just such an absurd reference
< 1275091064 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Facebook lets you share some info with other domains now
< 1275091074 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like it tracked the fact that I signed on from normal, and FB, from the same computer
< 1275091077 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably got lost amongst all their privacy changes
< 1275091078 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, WELCOME TO THE MATRIX
< 1275091078 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And now has connected them
< 1275091079 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea what he was going for
< 1275091086 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but funny
< 1275091100 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, don't worry about it until it bites you (which is probably never)
< 1275091114 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1275091117 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dirty harry 3 is on
< 1275091133 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you feel lucky, punk?
< 1275091140 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you?
< 1275091148 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGAkpRncNbQ
< 1275091153 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION counts the shots ... nope, not lucky enough
< 1275091161 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, time for some more gvim-time
< 1275091166 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's very much like sexytime
< 1275091168 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's vim time
< 1275091179 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i don't know why i typed the 'g' there, gvim needs to get out of my head
< 1275091198 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because everything must be graphical or OOP (or preferably both), you will be assimilated!
< 1275091202 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tvim; like gvim but it wasn't always graphical
< 1275091215 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or Dirty Harry will bust down your door and point his magnum at your puny face!
< 1275091290 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(BTW, I know nobody cares, esp. AnMaster, but I did eek out a Pascal Befunge-93 interpreter recently)
< 1275091322 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it do PSOX?
< 1275091338 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :B93? no   ;-)
< 1275091362 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'll humbly admit I don't even know what that means
< 1275091371 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't be humble
< 1275091372 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(fingerprint??)
< 1275091390 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> Sgeo's shitty </alise>
< 1275091407 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or jitty ... ha ha ha, oh wait ........
< 1275091409 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol.
< 1275091415 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION can't actually figure out what the next bit would be
< 1275091422 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, I don't get it
< 1275091432 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask Seth Gold
< 1275091446 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^_^
< 1275091462 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wishes he were funny, but alas ...
< 1275091499 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://qaa.ath.cx/addition.png [[Addition]]
< 1275091553 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a particular reason you needed to take a screenshot?
< 1275091557 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Not only did that not help me but now I forgot how to perform addition altogether." --reddit
< 1275091559 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: I didn't take it.
< 1275091590 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need to take a jit and go to sleep
< 1275091592 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :->
< 1275091601 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Link to thread?
< 1275091603 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no worse than Wikipedia's link to "motherf*cker" from the AC Transit bus fight meme
< 1275091606 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/c8vyo/for_the_longest_time_i_couldnt_wrap_my_head/
< 1275091613 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Motherfucker.
< 1275091615 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mother-FUCKER.
< 1275091617 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MOTHER-fucker.
< 1275091618 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MOTHERFUCKER.
< 1275091619 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(gotta love dem bastards, citation required!)
< 1275091623 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MoThErFuCkEr.
< 1275091629 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No asterisk in sight...
< 1275091655 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :m*th*rfucker
< 1275091670 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :m****rfucker
< 1275091674 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Br**nfuck
< 1275091684 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_Beard_Man
< 1275091701 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In the video, Bruso is seen wearing a light blue T-shirt that reads "I AM a Motherfucker" on the back."
< 1275091717 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motherfucker
< 1275091731 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This article needs additional citations for verification."
< 1275091745 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Motherfucker (euphemized as mf) is a vulgarism which, in its most literal use, refers to one who participates in sexual intercourse with someone's mother."
< 1275091753 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, Wikipedia, educating the children, good for them
< 1275091756 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QUITE SO GOOD CHAP
< 1275091775 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and linked from the AC Transit bus fight, how elucidating!
< 1275091802 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: why did you link that
< 1275091816 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_ asked
< 1275091823 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The term gained traction during World War II, originally amongst African American GIs, " ... uh, how encyclopedic of them (NOT!)
< 1275091835 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay
< 1275091841 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't read the comments
< 1275091858 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise
< 1275091862 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :->
< 1275091864 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I trolled a subreddit
< 1275091867 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise
< 1275091868 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need you
< 1275091876 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: that's nice.
< 1275091877 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: okay
< 1275091878 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: in what sense
< 1275091879 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does bcrypt only have a cost param for gensalt
< 1275091883 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not for hashpw
< 1275091883 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/iamaf/comments/c8w9v/iamna_person_trolling_riamaf_with_this_post/
< 1275091888 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: dunno, cuz that's how it works
< 1275091892 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use gensalt it will make you happy
< 1275091894 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :happy like a walrus
< 1275091930 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the eggman
< 1275092047 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't understand alise :<
< 1275092065 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: just think about the gzzzzzzop
< 1275092072 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will emlitten
< 1275092077 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about what?
< 1275092079 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will what?
< 1275092084 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG head asplode
< 1275092089 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ipfk
< 1275092149 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shows up in alise's room with an 'I <3 RP' tshirt on. and nothing else.
< 1275092156 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1275092156 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, alise, did you hear that Win 3.0 turned 20?
< 1275092169 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: what does RP expand to here exactly :|
< 1275092173 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: no, but i figure that is how time works
< 1275092180 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: what ever we want to, baby.
< 1275092185 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and eComStation 2.0 was finally released
< 1275092207 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coincidence? I think not!   ;-)
< 1275092215 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: i'm scared
< 1275092225 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: i think i'll choose it to stand for received pronunciation
< 1275092659 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants to make an API for multi-platform 3d environment bots
< 1275092669 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A lowest common denominator sort of thing
< 1275092688 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: that's what u get 4 trollering me
< 1275092701 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: how did i torlleringate you
< 1275092727 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask urzelf
< 1275092741 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1275092765 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on rms: "His emacs had a image background gregori rasputin. After any attempt to look at his screen he'd shut the lid and hiss. Call me crazy but his beard would move on its own sometimes too."
< 1275092821 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: tired
< 1275092862 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You, my friend, are unique and special. Like a working instance of the HURD kernel."
< 1275092939 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has something to say on this topic, but my computer's being a prick
< 1275092981 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://forums.thedailywtf.com/forums/p/4361/99561.aspx#99561
< 1275093056 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that topic /again/
< 1275093285 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you asked for it by mentioning RMS
< 1275093760 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: thue?
< 1275093776 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who's thue?
< 1275093991 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thue is a language.
< 1275093998 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh
< 1275094001 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Thue
< 1275094008 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of the most surprising instances of Turing-completeness.
< 1275094261 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interresting
< 1275094323 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreteresting
< 1275094360 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i didnt know of that language, no :P
< 1275094438 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:05:17 <Phantom_Hoover> Why in the name of goat did we make the wiki public domain?
< 1275094443 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Graue is opinionated -- I agree with him
< 1275094448 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:07:50 <Phantom_Hoover> No GPLed code. On a *software* wiki.
< 1275094450 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why we use links.
< 1275094458 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never given us problems; deal.
< 1275094523 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gives alise a problem
< 1275094541 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I reject your problem and substitute my own, much more easily-rectified problem.
< 1275094684 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION steals the problems and nukes it in the micorwave oven
< 1275094744 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nukes his spelling in the microwave oven too
< 1275094878 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, i figured it out
< 1275094930 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bcrypt's hasher DOES have a parameter for the amount of iterations. it's passed as part of the salt string.
< 1275095040 0 :Mathnerd314_!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275095041 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1275095047 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it affects the salt generation too though
< 1275095060 0 :Mathnerd314_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1275095096 0 :ec!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :elliottcable
< 1275095100 0 :elliottcable!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :battlecollie
< 1275095104 0 :battlecollie!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :[e]
< 1275095126 0 :[e]!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :mj
< 1275095146 0 :mj!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ec
< 1275095172 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice, putting iteration count in salt, enabling variable verification complexity.
< 1275095189 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I want to wear a helmet for the rest of my life
< 1275095195 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, look, he's still here.
< 1275097765 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ÂˇAy!  It looks like there are no good web sites out there for learning Finnish.
< 1275098265 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, Spaniard.
< 1275098324 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:26:08 <elliottcable> Phantom_Hoover: hah
< 1275098325 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:26:28 <elliottcable> Phantom_Hoover: distributed applications, web applications, client/server stuff
< 1275098325 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:26:42 <elliottcable> Phantom_Hoover: positioned to replace Ruby/JavaScript or Python/JavaScript
< 1275098325 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:30:04 <Phantom_Hoover> So it's not esoteric?
< 1275098328 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pre-fuckin'-cisely.
< 1275098340 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:33:59 <elliottcable> peopleâ€™ve called it esoteric
< 1275098341 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People are stupid.
< 1275098348 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love slow logreading.
< 1275098540 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1275098543 0 :alise!~alise@91.105.86.86 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275098802 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah.
< 1275098994 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :International Standard.
< 1275099041 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So anyway, Ripple (http://ripple.sourceforge.net/) is awesome (https://ripplepay.com/ but this is stalled iirc)
< 1275100132 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Decentralization makes me horny, but that doesn't mean everything can be decentralized
< 1275100336 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decentralises Sgeo
< 1275100532 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hawt
< 1275100617 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Considering Ripple is an actually-tried-in-practice, feasible solution that would solve an awful lot of economic problems...
< 1275100623 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not decentralisation for decentralisation's sake.
< 1275101192 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tried on what scale?
< 1275101268 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ripplepay.com
< 1275101272 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A very small scale, but still.
< 1275101279 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't something with a huge inherent flaw that makes it impossible.
< 1275101608 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That we know of
< 1275101622 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We don't know how well it will scale
< 1275101701 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fearmongering is pointless and for weak minds; you should know better than that. Find problems in the system instead of instinctively reacting like that to ideas you haven't been exposed to.
< 1275101708 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or the status quo really will control our thoughts...
< 1275101732 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just saying it needs to be tested on a larger scale.
< 1275101758 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unlikely; the economic status of the world means that no real change is possible.
< 1275102265 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Not impossible. Just sure to be incredibly traumatic when it happens.
< 1275102289 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(somewhere along the lines of "oh fuck everything broke")
< 1275102299 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope to not see that.
< 1275102304 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed.
< 1275102305 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This broken system beats its chaotic destruction.
< 1275102312 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can has gradual anarchy?
< 1275102324 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd rather not see the approximate equivalent of the fall of Rome.
< 1275102382 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[violin]
< 1275102673 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suppose somehow, by some strange fortune, there are two people who have no links between them
< 1275102836 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wrong.
< 1275102847 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't happen. The world doesn't work like that.
< 1275102877 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of these people lives in Alpha Centauri.
< 1275102899 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275103042 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's me)
< 1275103216 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275103265 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1275103371 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 
< 1275103383 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 
< 1275103518 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275103588 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 
< 1275103699 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :â€Ť
< 1275103743 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now the colon before the message is mix-up? However, it is still gray, rather than blue as the message text is supposed to be blue
< 1275103840 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe something to do with out PuTTY works
< 1275103848 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're not just typing spaces?
< 1275103848 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/out/how/
< 1275103869 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was, but Gregor is different
< 1275103932 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who here isn't different?
< 1275103991 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alise, it's happened before.
< 1275104027 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you count dead people in the links, I guess
< 1275104088 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did a Unicode zero-width space :P
< 1275104146 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: It hasn't "happened before". Under a Ripple system, the probability that two people are connected in a sufficiently large economy is... say... 1.
< 1275104165 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275104291 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1275104693 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about before, say, Columbus?
< 1275104807 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1275104819 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: they didn't have technoeconomies.
< 1275104842 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Columbus was lame.
< 1275104869 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Confused and stubborn, yes. Lame?
< 1275105182 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1275105390 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"HEY GUYZ, AMERICA! Ignore the Leif Ericson behind the curtain."
< 1275105716 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275105949 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I did't know about him
< 1275106061 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. Really?
< 1275106066 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get yourself some edumacation, sir.
< 1275106344 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good night, good sirs, good madams, not that we have any -- good night.
< 1275106355 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1275107311 0 :Rugxulo!~rugxulo@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275108023 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, CCBI updated yesterday
< 1275108035 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone interested in cellular automata?
< 1275108045 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes
< 1275108271 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Cool what about them?
< 1275108392 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just a few things, in general.
< 1275109688 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1275111728 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275111842 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0rjan!
< 1275111983 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is that about people shouting my nick lately
< 1275112029 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or approximations to it)
< 1275112030 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just bored   ;-)
< 1275112040 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that was my "joke", heh
< 1275112103 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you say so, Ru9xu1Ă¸
< 1275112133 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;-)
< 1275112157 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, even latest CCBI seems slow on my lame benchmark
< 1275112163 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought he fixed that
< 1275112167 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, not important (obviously)
< 1275112292 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the lame are usually slow
< 1275112292 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 mins. 9 secs.
< 1275112296 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tsk tsk
< 1275112308 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I blame D    :-)
< 1275112325 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CCBI is written in D?
< 1275112332 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or this P4 (better scapegoat)
< 1275112333 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1275112350 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TV Tropes just LIED to me
< 1275112370 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, it was referring to XKCD
< 1275112374 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is also lying
< 1275112378 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://xkcd.com/180/
< 1275112379 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TV Tropes???
< 1275112396 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: DON'T GO THERE IT'S A TRAP
< 1275112417 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*click* *click* *BOOM!*
< 1275112587 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dying in Canada does not kill you IRL
< 1275112602 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION waits for someone to comment
< 1275112622 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION expects someone to say, "living in Canada is as good as death"
< 1275112628 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION refuses to comment
< 1275112651 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By Canada, I of course mean IRCNomic
< 1275112678 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION suspected that
< 1275112755 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1275112784 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRCNomic???
< 1275112803 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ironically, Canada itself has died.
< 1275113126 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1275113137 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ilua
< 1275114137 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ironically, conversion in this channel has died
< 1275114171 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Iron
< 1275114182 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man
< 1275114635 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This game in demo mode it just keep moving the same card back and forth over and over again all the time
< 1275118053 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1275118600 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1275119980 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275119999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1275120000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275120099 0 :Gregor!~Gregor@c-71-237-176-82.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275120614 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1275120861 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1275121260 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-2-193.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275123911 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1275124491 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275124781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Rugxulo> (BTW, I know nobody cares, esp. AnMaster, but I did eek out a Pascal Befunge-93 interpreter recently) <-- nice!
< 1275124791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turbopascal?
< 1275124846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, I fail to see how "<Sgeo_> Does it do PSOX?" makes sense. Isn't it a separate program from the interpreter normally?
< 1275124872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which in theory can be used by any language
< 1275124883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well any with byte stdio
< 1275124887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well,*
< 1275124908 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who said I wanted it to make sense, as opposed to making a joke? But in theory, languages can include features that make working with PSOX easier
< 1275124935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1275124935 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275124946 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, there's no reason the interpreter couldn't include its own PSOX implementation for some reason
< 1275124959 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PSOX?
< 1275124960 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although that would be a bit pointless and annoying
< 1275124966 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should be sleeping
< 1275124989 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/PSOX and http://trac2.assembla.com/psox/browser/trunk
< 1275125000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, a program that you connect stdin/stdout of a bf program to. Then you can use some sort of escape seqs to do file IO with it and such
< 1275125008 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Currently, only domains 0-2 work, but custom domains are function
< 1275125008 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" LIES
< 1275125038 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, doesn't have to be bf. Just has to have byte stdio, like you just said
< 1275125043 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why on earth is your wiki name "Sgep"?
< 1275125053 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I lost the password for Sgeo
< 1275125068 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you have an email address set?
< 1275125070 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was also on Freenode as Sgep for a time, for the same reason
< 1275125074 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I don't think so
< 1275125085 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah.
< 1275125085 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I did, I'd have emailed myself a reset thingy
< 1275125092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, quite a few languages can't easily do that.
< 1275125095 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Graue remains unseen.
< 1275125100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't TAXI for example quite limited?
< 1275125112 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, iirc, Taxi can actually do it, with a bit of pain
< 1275125117 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, actually, hold on
< 1275125126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, I seem to remember there was some issue with zero byte in it
< 1275125130 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which iirc was used for PSOX
< 1275125137 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://trac2.assembla.com/psox/browser/trunk/spec/psox-utils.txt
< 1275125162 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x04 0x13 loopback, which would allow a TAXI program to add a newline to what it's receiving, since it needs to receive in lines
< 1275125165 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc
< 1275125174 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the reason I added that function, actually
< 1275125182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1275125210 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any hypothetical PSOX2 would use just simple stuff or less
< 1275125218 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/525347
< 1275125223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, you could use protocol modules
< 1275125224 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Random awesome thing
< 1275125233 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it requires Flash. Sorry.
< 1275125238 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to grasp
< 1275125244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, that is, different ways to encode for different languages
< 1275125264 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THe language itself should specify the encoding somehow, I think
< 1275125278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can fit different frontends to PSOX basically
< 1275125307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, so all languages should have to mention PSOX in their specs?
< 1275125308 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want the language requesting to specify customizable frontend, I think
< 1275125321 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, nono, the program written in the language
< 1275125325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1275125326 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was being a bit lazy in my typing
< 1275125803 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY am I still awake?
< 1275125836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, because you aren't asleep?
< 1275127275 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1275127346 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you even pronounce "Sgeo"?
< 1275127828 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sgeo.diagonalfish.net/sgeo.wav
< 1275127838 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should be sleeping 5 hours ago
< 1275127851 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I _had_ the computer closed too!
< 1275127864 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But no, I had to check Agora to see if I had any responses
< 1275127875 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Back to pretending to be asleep. Night all
< 1275127876 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275128058 0 :ec!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :elliottcable
< 1275128657 0 :elliottcable!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ec
< 1275129011 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275131052 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275131797 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1275132362 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1275133223 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275135376 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275137183 0 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-225-237.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275137324 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello sweeties
< 1275137369 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAH!
< 1275137386 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie oerjan lament!
< 1275137465 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"<Zuu> Who's thue?" <<< thue was a famous mathematician who did among other things all kinds of fun computability stuff, thue is named after his thue systems which are models of computation almost identical to the language
< 1275137498 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also gave me a useful way to answer pointless surveys.
< 1275137547 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right also did some of the first cool combinatorics on words stuff
< 1275137586 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1275137611 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thue-morse word was invented for the purpose of not having repetitions of length over 2
< 1275137661 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed.
< 1275137690 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i'm just educating Zuu)
< 1275137694 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found out about it when reading a thing on whether it was possible to play an unending game of chess.
< 1275137708 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except
< 1275137712 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The language Thue is named after him.
< 1275137717 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess he probably doesn't know what the word is
< 1275137740 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i'm not really educating him, but i'm using it as an excuse to be able to say random facts
< 1275137784 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right unending chess, sort of a trivial corollary
< 1275137799 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well maybe not entirely trivial because you have to find out what to repeat
< 1275137815 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i suppose that takes like 3 moves from the initial position
< 1275138074 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu: The Thue-Morse sequence: 0110100110010110
< 1275138076 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1275138091 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You take the complement and concatenate.
< 1275138620 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1275138704 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1275138731 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275138812 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1275141708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to figure out how long 306 MB would take at an average transfer speed of 75kB/s
< 1275141809 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275141818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.3 hours?
< 1275141827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1275141830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not too bad
< 1275141889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit more than ETA reported by rsync
< 1275141913 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes I did compensate for what it reported as already transferred)
< 1275142508 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275142737 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Phantom_Hoover> fizzie oerjan lament! <-- i take it you want cheater99 banned?
< 1275142856 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would someone want me banned?
< 1275142858 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am so lovable
< 1275142867 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd have to ask Phantom_Hoover about that
< 1275142869 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I was readying.
< 1275142958 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: maybe you should ban him anyway, because i want to see your powers in action
< 1275142976 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's very boring
< 1275143003 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you've seen it?
< 1275143011 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i already banned fax a few weeks ago
< 1275143017 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay
< 1275143020 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did she do?
< 1275143029 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :went completely nuts
< 1275143029 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :She posted "FUCK YOU" onto the wall.
< 1275143035 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :About 500 times.
< 1275143041 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/wall/channel/
< 1275143041 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1275143048 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what day was it i wanna read the log
< 1275143061 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was a weekend, a few weeks ago.
< 1275143063 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't remember
< 1275143073 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay
< 1275143075 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look for mention of Klein bottles
< 1275143131 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: she used the soupdragon nick then
< 1275143147 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two weeks ago.
< 1275143156 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the 15th or so.
< 1275143351 0 :alise!~alise@91.105.86.86 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275143360 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erxcellent.
< 1275143376 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Excrement.
< 1275143457 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Anyway I have some inexplicable urge to write an ircd.
< 1275143462 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: OK, why the nick?
< 1275143474 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My nick?
< 1275143479 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1275143504 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One day I decided to see how people would treat me differently on IRC if they thought I had ovaries. But I don't go to other channels much and nobody really sexist enters here.
< 1275143532 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I decided to keep it to crush English's sexist pronoun system; this nickname's gender is male, but with all pronouns augmented to be the female ones (while my gender is male)
< 1275143543 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do get the impression of friendlier, quicker service when I go to other channels though... and when some trolls came in here they propositioned me for sex
< 1275143549 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> Yes. Anyway I have some inexplicable urge to write an ircd. <-- in which language
< 1275143556 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But *everyone* refers to you as "he".
< 1275143564 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1275143568 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol doesn't, and oerjan doesn't when he remembers.
< 1275143580 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have not notied this.
< 1275143582 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And note that people don't use pronouns so much on IRC since there are so many people.
< 1275143590 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is why you have not "notied" (*noticed) it.
< 1275143613 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That's the frightening thing. Take a guess.
< 1275143620 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell?
< 1275143626 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brainfuck?
< 1275143628 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not frightening for me.
< 1275143637 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Malbolge?
< 1275143646 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not frightening for me.
< 1275143658 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: i'm not sexist?
< 1275143666 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :women are stupider than men
< 1275143675 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: OK, what?
< 1275143683 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: that's what they want you to think
< 1275143684 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Well, you don't show it much.
< 1275143684 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i donreally sexist
< 1275143687 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'t know if i'm
< 1275143694 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: and anyway you've never said anything as strong a statement as that before :P
< 1275143702 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I think you just adopt controversial opinions because they're controversial
< 1275143709 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I asked AnMaster to guess!
< 1275143717 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PASCAL?
< 1275143722 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess what?
< 1275143724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, language?
< 1275143727 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1275143731 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people who just adopt controversial opinions because they're controversial should be shot
< 1275143732 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, any hunts?
< 1275143736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hints*
< 1275143751 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's frightening for me.
< 1275143759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, qbasic?
< 1275143765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, COBOL?
< 1275143771 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: java?
< 1275143771 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like QBASIC; why would that be frightening for me?
< 1275143772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, C++?
< 1275143774 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come on, think a little bit.
< 1275143778 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's a language I really hate?
< 1275143778 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C#?
< 1275143781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, erlang?
< 1275143785 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, Erlang is fine.
< 1275143786 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VB?
< 1275143790 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's a language I really DETEST?
< 1275143796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm.... ook!
< 1275143798 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Not you, Phanty.)
< 1275143802 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: i already _said_ java
< 1275143808 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't detest ook, there's not enough language to detest
< 1275143811 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait
< 1275143814 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: php!
< 1275143816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, java or vb then
< 1275143817 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: java is supremely shittily mediocre, not detestable
< 1275143818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or php
< 1275143820 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :php isn't even a language
< 1275143823 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For fuck's sake you retards
< 1275143823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1275143824 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's C
< 1275143831 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1275143833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay
< 1275143836 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's so awful about C?
< 1275143837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you detested C++
< 1275143841 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I despise C!
< 1275143842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I alise and mearly disliked C
< 1275143847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/I /
< 1275143851 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mearly?
< 1275143857 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Merely*
< 1275143858 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c is horrible
< 1275143866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so if you detest C, how do you feel about C++ then
< 1275143871 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well the actual good C like the plan 9 folks do is alright
< 1275143878 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I hate typical C-on-Unix bullcrap
< 1275143887 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ is just don't go there
< 1275143887 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's wrong with that?
< 1275143899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm
< 1275143918 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: A few words, manual memory management is humanly impossible and a complete waste of time. If you think you can do it, wrong! You made a mistake. All this is unnecessary and we had machines that did GC on everything in the 80s, so isn't this fun?
< 1275143929 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :manual memory management is bullshit
< 1275143934 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes/
< 1275143937 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, the C standard library interestingly lacks a single function that operates on a real string data structure.
< 1275143947 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C is pointless unless you're writing madly low-level stuff.
< 1275143949 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead it gives you a bunch of badly-named memory management functions that behave weirdly on \0 characters.
< 1275143951 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the C standard library is retarded
< 1275143955 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hence GNOME is also mad.
< 1275143964 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love GObject, it's ludicrously insane
< 1275143964 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnome is a fucking shithole
< 1275143967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I think manual memory management is quite feasible for some tasks
< 1275143971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for other tasks, no
< 1275143972 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :goobject sucks
< 1275143974 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're writing more gnome stuff in vala nowadays
< 1275143975 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and c#
< 1275143980 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also oklopol is just parroting opinions but more strongly now
< 1275143988 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yeah maybe embedded programming.
< 1275143989 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol is a fucking asshole
< 1275143995 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol sucks dick
< 1275143996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, exactly
< 1275143998 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders toying with KDE again
< 1275144009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and you need something for internal data structures of a GC
< 1275144011 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kde is ugly
< 1275144014 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: no
< 1275144016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't GC the GC
< 1275144019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite obviously
< 1275144027 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's where oklopol stops at, him sucking dick
< 1275144031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, "it's GCs all the way down" yeah right
< 1275144038 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol is a gay homosexual
< 1275144041 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C GCs are inherently conservative... which is lame
< 1275144043 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who sucks dick for a living
< 1275144048 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yo dawg I heard you like GCs so we GCed your GC so you can GC while you GC
< 1275144050 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because he'd die without gay sex
< 1275144051 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then walks home
< 1275144063 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw crap
< 1275144077 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone now hates me on irc
< 1275144079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> Also, the C standard library interestingly lacks a single function that operates on a real string data structure. <-- agreed. C strings are irritating
< 1275144083 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Yo dawg I herd you like X so we put an X in your Y so you can X while you Y" has mutated by replacing Y with X.
< 1275144086 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been... specialised.
< 1275144087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they made kind of sense back when C was made
< 1275144087 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: who
< 1275144089 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: who?
< 1275144092 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1275144092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, memory wasn't cheap back then
< 1275144098 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i joked they're using technobabble and he made me his personal enemy #1
< 1275144100 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :=(
< 1275144102 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: pascal existed... even pascal strings are better
< 1275144107 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: Was it fax, perchance?
< 1275144110 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1275144112 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everyone is fax's personal enemy #1.
< 1275144113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well, the non-fixed length ones are
< 1275144115 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone from a galaxy far away
< 1275144117 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes
< 1275144119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, the fixed length ones are horrible
< 1275144123 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course
< 1275144127 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no fax likes me
< 1275144137 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: only 'cuz you haven't called her a girl yet
< 1275144138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and iirc the fixed length was all that existed back then
< 1275144141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not 100% sure
< 1275144141 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or not responded to her immediately
< 1275144143 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have
< 1275144152 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe she just wants to have sex with you then
< 1275144160 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i started talking to her in pm a lot when i heard she was a girl
< 1275144171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_
< 1275144174 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :she doesn't consider herself a girl :P
< 1275144174 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_-*
< 1275144185 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok now he doesn't hate me that much anymore
< 1275144189 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all that irc emotion
< 1275144190 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least when I said to AnMaster that she was m->f transgender which is what augur told me, she freaked
< 1275144192 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is overwhelming me
< 1275144193 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yelled at me for 50 years
< 1275144196 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Anyway so I'm just going to write it as event-ish based code
< 1275144200 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do i care, i enjoy conversations more if the other dude has a vagina.
< 1275144207 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: and see if I can avoid serious string handling outside of the parser
< 1275144209 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: she doesn't
< 1275144214 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least I'm 99% sure she hasn't had a sex change
< 1275144228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm... BSD sockets?
< 1275144233 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for one, you need to have a psychological evaluation to make sure you are sane
< 1275144240 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay
< 1275144248 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and (1) she is not sane (2) apparently she'd been to see psychologists before and just gave up on it
< 1275144253 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what, she doesn't think she's a girl, and she has a dick
< 1275144257 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... she's just a guy?
< 1275144262 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well clearly she thinks she's female in some sense
< 1275144265 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :     232.78M  76%   60.31kB/s    0:21:01  83.77kB/s    0:35:09 <-- sigh
< 1275144268 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since she prefers the pronoun she... I think
< 1275144271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION stabs slow connection
< 1275144282 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it's a crazy ungendered person with a dick
< 1275144283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also
< 1275144284 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have fun
< 1275144288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that copy was strange
< 1275144293 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does it have two times there
< 1275144295 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and such
< 1275144297 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: hmm, come to think of it, ircds don't really handle strings at all
< 1275144311 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: well that's still closer to person with vagina than guy
< 1275144313 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1275144323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, they need to parse the message to figure out if it is a command, and such. Like JOIN or PRIVMSG
< 1275144330 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, a hole is a hole
< 1275144343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and for PRIVMSG they have to figure out where to send it
< 1275144346 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come to think of it, Lisp was around when C was invented.
< 1275144351 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for other commands they need to parse the parameters too
< 1275144372 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, but beyond parsing
< 1275144379 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which can all be done in one go really, since most commands don't have in-parameter syntaxes
< 1275144380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, oh  and they need to construct a large number of strings to send to clients. like :alise!~alise@91.105.86.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, but beyond parsing
< 1275144386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(copied from raw log)
< 1275144390 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't have to construct them necessarily
< 1275144392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't your line
< 1275144394 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they can send them to the socket as they go
< 1275144409 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: i suppose
< 1275144411 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: well she used to identify as male, definitely
< 1275144418 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: so it's male->who knows? and they have a dick
< 1275144422 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have fun~
< 1275144424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, still some messages like PING/PONG, various stuff like gline reasons. Quit reasons.
< 1275144427 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1275144450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, also /map. (probably disabled for non-opers on here)
< 1275144452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed it is
< 1275144458 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that do?
< 1275144463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well it shows a map of the spanning tree from the server you are on
< 1275144466 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in ascii
< 1275144481 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds lovely^Whorrible.
< 1275144497 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I guess you'll hate this thing anyway since I don't plan to support any existing irc services
< 1275144499 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a person in #c on efnet
< 1275144504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, quite useful for opers. For non-opers either it shows nothing or it is disabled
< 1275144504 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: she's also insane, i think that's even better than having a vagina
< 1275144505 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err that was in #c++
< 1275144510 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: tru.
< 1275144512 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no server linking? well sane move
< 1275144520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :server linking makes thing very complex
< 1275144520 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone started calling him/her/it arbitrary pronouns
< 1275144522 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not the same thing
< 1275144528 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a guy was totally nuts i could probably have sex with him
< 1275144531 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you can link servers without supporting the special oper commands
< 1275144534 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that the services use
< 1275144537 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*special services
< 1275144539 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then it got so big the ops got pissed off
< 1275144544 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and started banning anyone who did that lol
< 1275144547 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if a girl was really smart i'd be like put ur clothes on
< 1275144570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm? On most ircds they use standard ones but have some extra permissions basically
< 1275144579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps one or two special ones for services
< 1275144586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION checks inspircd server protocol docs
< 1275144591 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then why do ircds like ngircd say they need to add suppo for dervices to work
< 1275144597 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why do services have their own modules, usually, in ircds
< 1275144610 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*support
< 1275144611 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*services
< 1275144612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dervices :)
< 1275144641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, also server<->server protocols for ircds are not standard. Well there exist a few that are used by several
< 1275144645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but mostly not standard
< 1275144655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that explains "<alise> and why do services have their own modules, usually, in ircds"
< 1275144664 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, fair enough
< 1275144669 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but isn't server linking... useful? :-)
< 1275144672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, then there is the thing about /whois
< 1275144678 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* [alise] is logged in as alise
< 1275144678 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't imagine freenode running on one network -- but then I guess I won't be runnning Freenode any time soon
< 1275144691 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, a few small things like that need some sort of support from the ircd side
< 1275144693 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, see, I'm going to do services by just having it be a plugin-type dealie
< 1275144698 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that it can easily hook into /whois and the like
< 1275144716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well inspircd uses an m_services.so
< 1275144719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that is what you mean
< 1275144734 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean there will be no separate services package or server.
< 1275144739 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll just be a plugin for this one ircd.
< 1275144740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1275144741 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Simple.
< 1275144749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, decentralised services?
< 1275144760 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I cannot imagine that working, at all :P
< 1275144764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you realise that would be quite a pain to handle if servers splits.
< 1275144769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and netsplits do happen.
< 1275144790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I can imagine it working. It is just that it would be a PITA and conflict resolution would be quite insane
< 1275144792 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can't link servers, remember?
< 1275144799 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you mean decentralised services
< 1275144812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, the latter
< 1275144819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait
< 1275144823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not link any servers?
< 1275144827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even "normal" ones?
< 1275144831 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to services
< 1275144835 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yeah, that's even what you said.
< 1275144846 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<AnMaster> alise, no server linking? well sane move
< 1275144846 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<AnMaster> server linking makes thing very complex
< 1275144854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1275144856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I said that
< 1275144859 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure you can have a single ircd serving at least 7,000 online peeps if it's written well enough.
< 1275144867 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then "<alise> but isn't server linking... useful? :-)" made me think you decided to do it anyway
< 1275144873 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it's not like any of this is computationally intensive, and the c10k problem is well-researched.
< 1275144881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, thing is, avoiding race conditions in server protocol is like a black art
< 1275144891 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah; I don't go for black art.
< 1275144901 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I can't explain every line exactly I get upset and try and rewrite it.
< 1275144912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, for example you need two timestamps for topic for conflict resolution to work properly after a netsplit
< 1275144922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one for channel created and one for topic last changed
< 1275144927 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why don't we just assume netsplits NEVER HAPPEN?! Yay!!!!
< 1275144940 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and then it goes like: oldest channel created wins. If a tie, then newest topic change wins
< 1275144962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, because they always happen. Network issues and so on.
< 1275144976 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was a joke
< 1275144980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1275144986 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assume a perfectly spherical cow, and a perfectly reliable network.
< 1275145011 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1275145066 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So how do "most" event-based ircds do thangs? I'm just going to do it the obvious way -- you can set up callbacks on certain events/messages coming in from certain users, etc., in the server, and the handlers queue() up messages to be sent after they exit
< 1275145083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a quick look at http://wiki.inspircd.org/InspIRCd_Spanning_Tree_1.2/Commands indicates there are a few service specific messages. Only a few are actually needed. SVSNICK is to handle nick already registered-auto rename
< 1275145114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :svshold too
< 1275145129 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and svsmode (for some services at least)
< 1275145130 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm considering making my "services" actually just commands
< 1275145153 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like "/nick register password", except not /nick of course because that's taken.
< 1275145154 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, sane idea if you are not doing server linking yeah
< 1275145168 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One advantage of services users is that you can have them in their own tab
< 1275145238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well sure. But since they use notices to reply (RFC requires this actually, that is, automated replies should be NOTICE and you must not generate an automated reply when receiving a NOTICE, a way to block infinite loops)
< 1275145256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh didn't finish the sentence I see XD
< 1275145260 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know about that rule, but that rule is a bit silly.
< 1275145266 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRC bots using /notice is irritating in the highest.
< 1275145269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well: ... they usually end up in #services for me
< 1275145287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since services are all joined there. That is on networks where I am in there
< 1275145295 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... I wonder if clients handle a completely ludicrous hostname.
< 1275145307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you mean like the one freenode uses?
< 1275145311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* [AnMaster] (~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster): AnMaster
< 1275145313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1275145316 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :": NOTICE ehird :AHAHAHA"
< 1275145327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: ?
< 1275145331 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Empty hostname.
< 1275145333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the start I mean
< 1275145334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1275145356 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no that isn't just empty host name. It is empty nick and ident too
< 1275145358 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So in XChat that would display as "-- AHAHAHA", presumably.
< 1275145362 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Ah, right.
< 1275145363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1275145364 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about :@
< 1275145375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, eh. I have no clue. But I don't recommend it
< 1275145385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, why not use server style notices
< 1275145386 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not? It would be useful for the server to send "useful" information to the client.
< 1275145388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me check how they are sent
< 1275145395 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't those go to the server tab in XChat?
< 1275145398 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I'm trying to avoid.
< 1275145411 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or do you mean :a.b.c NOTICE ...
< 1275145502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>> :server.example.org NOTICE AnMaster :*** CHANCREATE: Channel #bar created by AnMaster!AnMaster@hostname.here
< 1275145504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, like that
< 1275145509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the >> is from my raw log
< 1275145513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :showing it came from server
< 1275145517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to being sent to server
< 1275145521 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, well, an empty domain name is perfectly valid
< 1275145525 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So : NOTICE should work fine.
< 1275145539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, iirc it needs to be the server name sent to client on connect
< 1275145544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for it to work properly
< 1275145546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not 100% sure
< 1275145560 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then :@ :P
< 1275145568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, but sure, go ahead and try empty host name. It wouldn't surprise me if it broke
< 1275145597 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* [NickServ] (NickServ@services.): Nickname Services
< 1275145601 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So how about :@ircd.?
< 1275145609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no idea. I never tried it
< 1275145616 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor do I have easy testing of it available
< 1275145635 0 :enero!~Libero_Br@151.2.170.35 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275145648 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, just to check, the I won't run into any serious problems with an event-based model based on adding callbacks to certain types of message that come in, plus queue()ing up messages to send after handlers exit?
< 1275145661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, idea: write a "test bench" with netcat that just sends pre-written file to connecting clients
< 1275145666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then test clients against that
< 1275145691 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guy i've never seen rings the doorbell "hi i'm your neighbor, left the keys at home, can i borrow your cellphone?" "okay, here" "thanks, i'll just go get the number and call" *vanishes*
< 1275145732 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I have no idea. Worth a try I presume. Most ircds are single threaded and use non-blocking IO
< 1275145737 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :congrats, you just gave away your cellphone
< 1275145740 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :buy a new one
< 1275145742 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1275145757 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought "wow if this is a hoax then damn it's clever"
< 1275145762 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and closed the door
< 1275145764 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must remember that for all your insanity you are a little bit stupid
< 1275145777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, with select() or whatever is available on platform that is better
< 1275145789 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: of course
< 1275145809 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: point is, though, you never need to block the handler until this message is sent
< 1275145810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :epoll, kqueue, /dev/poll, ...
< 1275145815 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :queueing up stuff will always work?
< 1275145819 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyway, there's really no way to get robbed in finland
< 1275145822 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although otoh... what's the point
< 1275145827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm? how do you mean?
< 1275145840 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in
< 1275145841 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or stolen from
< 1275145841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do need to consider timed events, such as timing out old glines
< 1275145844 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a function in your ircd queue which does
< 1275145848 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a very boring country
< 1275145856 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :queue(...) ==> append the message to an internal list
< 1275145858 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then when your handler exits
< 1275145859 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :}
< 1275145863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1275145863 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main loop goes through all queued messages
< 1275145865 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sends them off
< 1275145868 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then does its select-ery again
< 1275145871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I guess that could work
< 1275145879 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will it have any advantages over immediate sending, though...
< 1275145893 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://code.google.com/p/unix-jun72/ 1st edition unix
< 1275145894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, of course, you will need to wake up sometimes even when queue is empty and there is no IO
< 1275145900 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's simulatable!
< 1275145903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as timing out klines
< 1275145916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sending PING
< 1275145917 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is almost tempted to say Meh, klines... who needs them
< 1275145917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to clients
< 1275145930 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh, PING, who needs it. Freenode doesn't even kick you if you don't respond to pings.
< 1275145936 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it does nowdays iirc
< 1275145950 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well it didn't beforehand and that's good enough for me
< 1275145950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after the switch from hyperion to charybdis
< 1275145963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not charybdis, ircd-seven. Which is charybdis + a few patches
< 1275145991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it relied on tcp timeout indeed
< 1275146059 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, now that I've the idea, I clearly must start on the most important part: the name. irked?
< 1275146064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1275146091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, oh and bans. That is some fun string handling
< 1275146098 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*!*@*.foo.net
< 1275146104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to do wild card matching there
< 1275146107 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A language will not succeed without a good name. I have recently invented a very good name and now I am looking for a suitable language." --Knuth
< 1275146147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so yes there is some string handling outside parser. for glines/klines it is ident@host only. Nick doesn't come into it
< 1275146155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still the wildcard thing
< 1275146167 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, maybe I'll just change everything so that it's better.
< 1275146176 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it doesn't have an interface, it's free game!
< 1275146181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm?
< 1275146194 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, nobody really uses an interface to ban, they do it manually.
< 1275146197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/mode +b
< 1275146202 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But people use an interface to talk, join, invite, etc. -- an IRC client.
< 1275146204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and that has the wildcards
< 1275146207 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* #esoteric Banlist: Sun Apr 18 11:01:14 *!*email@*.dyn.optonline.net verne.freenode.net
< 1275146209 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I can't change the latter, but I can change the former.
< 1275146213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example
< 1275146213 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you understand?
< 1275146237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you can't change the latter easily without breaking things. for example that ban list above was formatted by my client
< 1275146247 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't look at the banlist then :PP
< 1275146253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<< MODE #esoteric +b
< 1275146254 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>> :verne.freenode.net 367 AnMaster #esoteric *!*checker@c-68-55-8-210.hsd1.md.comcast.net verne.freenode.net 1271581274
< 1275146254 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vs:
< 1275146258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* #esoteric Banlist: Sun Apr 18 11:01:14 *!*checker@c-68-55-8-210.hsd1.md.comcast.net verne.freenode.net
< 1275146278 0 :enero!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1275146284 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough.
< 1275146289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how I love the numerics. At least there is a nice list for it somewhere
< 1275146291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*looks*
< 1275146293 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I don't think I need to worry about bans before I can get a connection going, do you?
< 1275146317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, covers many (but not all) ircds: http://winchat.fyrenet.com/OPERINFO/IrcNumerics/IRC-2%20Numeric%20List.htm
< 1275146328 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and their conflicting uses
< 1275146362 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~/work/2010-05/irked; so no matter how old it gets, it will always be from now.
< 1275146373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm?
< 1275146378 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-)
< 1275146398 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i one made an ircd just so my friend could run his irc bot more efficiently
< 1275146414 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*once
< 1275146433 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once fucked a goat.
< 1275146440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway it isn't like you need anything more than select() or poll(), if you want to be prudent split it out in a separate function with some add()/remove()/wait() API. Should be easy to replace with epoll or whatever later then
< 1275146458 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: no you didn't
< 1275146473 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: select is easier to use at first right?
< 1275146491 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just put select() in the main loop at first, then refactor it out into a separate function when I wish.
< 1275146494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm iirc both of those messes up your data structure after each wait
< 1275146500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlike epoll and kqueue
< 1275146500 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But no ifdefs!
< 1275146506 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1275146572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, the point of epoll and kqueue is that they don't send the list of fds to wait on to the kernel every time. The kernel stores a list that you can wait on.
< 1275146585 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that also means they don't mess up your list so you have to rebuild it every time
< 1275146591 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So are they... easy to use?
< 1275146592 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which at least select() does iirc
< 1275146599 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, not too bad iirc
< 1275146601 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm amazingly lazy you see.
< 1275146619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, why C then...
< 1275146628 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because! It'll be event based, so it won't hurt, right?
< 1275146629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lazy + C = NaN
< 1275146636 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arithmetic hates you
< 1275146641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hah
< 1275146652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I'm using IEEE floating point
< 1275146674 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Precisely.
< 1275146692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1275146712 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IEEE is the devil's arithmetic.
< 1275146718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, oh btw epoll can be either level or edge triggered
< 1275146725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poll is level triggered
< 1275146734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :select is too iirc
< 1275146742 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1275146754 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1275146754 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What what or the what what?
< 1275146755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that means it can return right away. Which you might want. epoll can be set to only return on change.
< 1275146765 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275146768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what is your question?
< 1275146790 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No idea :P
< 1275146797 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders whether to write it using CWEB. Literate programming! Nah.
< 1275146805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, of course epoll is linux specific, kqueue is freebsd specific (and possibly other *bsd), /dev/poll is solaris
< 1275146814 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :windows has something completely different again
< 1275146833 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes a big advantage of literate programming's blocks is that they can access variables where they appear, unlike functions.
< 1275146838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poll and select are both fairly standard. Possibly excluding *BSD
< 1275146866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, how do you mean?
< 1275146867 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also
< 1275146882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/Possibly excluding \*BSD/Possibly excluding Windows/
< 1275146885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird typo
< 1275146901 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g.
< 1275146903 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    parse_options(argc, argv);
< 1275146908 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas with literate programming you'd just say
< 1275146911 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    <<parse options>>
< 1275146920 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and later on the <<parse options>> code could use argc and argv
< 1275146924 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's not goto; it's all rearranged before compiling)
< 1275146962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1275146973 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        default:
< 1275146973 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :            fprintf(stderr, "You get NOTHING! You LOSE! Good DAY sir!\n");
< 1275146974 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :            exit(1);
< 1275146986 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will hereby heartily accept dares of the form "keep this as your invalid-option message forever".
< 1275146990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, do you still have functions in literate programming?
< 1275147000 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes; it's plain C in the end, of course. Well, or Pascal :-D
< 1275147018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm
< 1275147026 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it has things like "macros" -- sort of like preprocessor macros but saner, for tiny little not-even-functions -- and the "blocks" which are the main thing, literate programming isn't just comments-by-default,
< 1275147046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1275147053 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's about being able to write your code in the order that it's relevant, so that you can talk about it, and then later say "Here's how we parse the options of the program" because the reader /does not need to know those details/ before understanding more about the program
< 1275147061 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, is the generated output readable btw?
< 1275147065 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I guess so.
< 1275147067 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relatively.
< 1275147076 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would you want to, though?
< 1275147088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, debugging literate programming typos.
< 1275147098 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, you can sort of do blocks in regular C by predeclaring a function; but you have to manually pass around variables and can only have one return variable instead of changing others.
< 1275147099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I hope it uses #line as required
< 1275147104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can get useful back traces
< 1275147105 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's more verbose to declare a function, and you have to under_score_your_name.
< 1275147114 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't think CWEB does.
< 1275147115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, oh and could you use the "<<parse options>>" thing in several places?
< 1275147118 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe noweb does.
< 1275147122 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes.
< 1275147132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, okay that could cause some confusion for back traces
< 1275147163 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure it works fine :P
< 1275147167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it might be hard to figure out which case of using that code it was that crashed
< 1275147175 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have this strange condition where you try and search for the problems first in everything.
< 1275147188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1275147191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true I guess
< 1275147221 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION uses c99 so that he doesn't have to put (void) in function declarations
< 1275147226 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupidest thing ever, stupid!
< 1275147229 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what?
< 1275147232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c89 you mean then
< 1275147234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not c99
< 1275147235 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope
< 1275147239 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :void foo(); <-- this is invalid in c89
< 1275147262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it means a K&R style function in C89 iirc
< 1275147264 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Gee, how should we denote a function having no arguments?" "Uh... put void in there... void is like... nothingness..." [some time passes] "Wow, we were really fucking stoned last night. Hey, I wonder what we did to C? ...WHAT?"
< 1275147294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so void means a function with no parameters in C89. while having nothing there means it isn't specified, like in K&R
< 1275147304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc
< 1275147310 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But in C99, "void foo();" is the same as "void foo(void);"
< 1275147312 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure.
< 1275147328 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might be a gcc warning still
< 1275147336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure
< 1275147384 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw man, this doesn't work:
< 1275147385 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    while ((int opt = getopt(argc, argv, "v")) != -1) {
< 1275147429 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION attempts to get \ae displaying on his terminal
< 1275147444 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course it's an IRC dćmon, why wouldn't I print that? (Note: I am currently procrastinating)
< 1275147456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thunderstorm
< 1275147470 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes.
< 1275147472 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thunderstorm
< 1275147507 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, it works.
< 1275147509 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\ae monospaced looks freaky.
< 1275147620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1275148167 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ooooooooooooooooo
< 1275148191 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, someone actually made a non-sucking package manager for OS X.
< 1275148198 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And oklopol disappears!
< 1275148238 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just remembered package managers are boring -------->
< 1275148621 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ă¦Ă¦Ă¦Ă¦Ă¦Ă¦Ă¦Ă¦Ă¦Ă¦Ă¦Ă¦Ă¦Ă¦Ă¦Ă¦Ă¦Ă¦Ă¦Ă¦
< 1275148661 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shćt up
< 1275148690 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shat up?
< 1275148701 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shat up what?
< 1275148859 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some Ă¦s
< 1275148887 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shatted
< 1275148894 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The past tense of the past tense of "shit".
< 1275148952 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that works particularly well if you realize that norwegian Ă¦ is pronounced pretty close to the a in ass)
< 1275148971 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that;s what i thought you meant by "shat"
< 1275149030 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shaet
< 1275149032 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway i meant shut
< 1275149114 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an Ă¸ would be closer for that
< 1275149175 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the stereotypically bad norwegian english accent would pronounce shut with an Ă¸)
< 1275149260 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm even closer with british english, i presume
< 1275149315 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sh uhh' t
< 1275149354 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the vowel sound is almost a schwa
< 1275149386 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@150.140.227.55 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275149577 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275149613 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will someone *please* remove the dead link in the welcome message?
< 1275149632 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1275149638 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's tradition.
< 1275149659 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just an excuse for laziness.
< 1275149734 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dead link/
< 1275149737 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1275149741 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :frappr
< 1275149745 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes it is.
< 1275149766 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's never worked while I've been on the channel.
< 1275149828 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello?
< 1275149834 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1275149851 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275149868 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was even on that page?
< 1275149928 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://loremipsum.net/screenshots/fullpromote.jpg
< 1275149932 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: a map with us folk
< 1275149999 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, Leeds held on for a while there...
< 1275150021 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Leeds?
< 1275150033 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugby League
< 1275150040 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh
< 1275150046 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1275150046 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275150049 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Challenge Cup quarter final
< 1275150050 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's someone in another channel with the nickname Leeds
< 1275150054 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1275150117 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thought void foo(); meant something stupid like a variable number of arguments?
< 1275150144 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: done
< 1275150179 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it gives a link to the wiki instead
< 1275150261 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hey!!
< 1275150265 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't do that to our tradition!
< 1275150295 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEENER NEENER
< 1275150491 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How light can desktop computers get?
< 1275150516 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if they get too light they would float off
< 1275150520 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: () does indicate variable args.
< 1275150562 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose you could glue them to the desktop to fix that
< 1275150593 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has a table that this laptop is currently resting on
< 1275150604 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if I'd trust it with a heavy computer
< 1275150606 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey me too!
< 1275150610 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1275150610 0 :oklopol!~oklopol@a91-153-122-35.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275150629 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Floating computers would be cool.
< 1275150637 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: probably about 4kg is the lower limit
< 1275150653 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's for all 4 main components (base unit, monitor, keyboard, mouse)
< 1275150657 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo_: () does indicate variable args.
< 1275150657 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in c99
< 1275150670 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh right, keyboard
< 1275150672 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1275150675 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pineapple: hmm, i think you are wrong
< 1275150681 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those holographic keyboard things are quite light aren't they?
< 1275150681 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is not sure how that will fit on the table
< 1275150685 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're meant to be portable after all
< 1275150689 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1275150693 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :keyboards are light, though
< 1275150694 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tiny tiny mouse = no weight
< 1275150699 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's not much of the total weight
< 1275150704 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pineapple: monitor... you can get tiny 8" "portable" monitors
< 1275150723 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the computer itself can be less than 1kg.
< 1275150726 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easy
< 1275150732 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(see: e.g. every lightweight laptop)
< 1275150732 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was assuming something like a reasonable tft
< 1275150736 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1275150740 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, how do you indicate "takes any args" in C99, then?
< 1275150744 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pineapple: then basically we're just measuring weight(tft) + epsilon :P
< 1275150747 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ... i think
< 1275150749 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ...
< 1275150753 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like best practice in c89
< 1275150760 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int foo(int abc, int def, ...);
< 1275150768 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note you must have at least one argument when using varargs
< 1275150781 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want a good gaming computer
< 1275150799 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And to indicate that it will take any old junk?
< 1275150818 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: 3kg then, likely
< 1275150857 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can a pointer to void be a valid argument to a function?
< 1275150862 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it's useless unless there's at least one argument to tell you how to understand the rest
< 1275150874 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(iiuc)
< 1275150890 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And for "ignore all arguments"?
< 1275150911 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't really know
< 1275151011 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: any old junk?
< 1275151012 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't
< 1275151025 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a variadic function MUST have at least one argument.
< 1275151028 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or it is undefined behaviour
< 1275151057 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I'm pretty sure you have to process every argument before ending a variadic function, so you have to have e.g. either a terminator such as NULL or have the first argument be the number of following arguments
< 1275151202 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But how do you allow the function to take absolutely any arguments whatsoever?
< 1275151236 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't.
< 1275151325 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it makes perfect sense in the context of x86 calling conventions.
< 1275151329 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you need to process them all, then you can't
< 1275151337 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I'm not sure about other platforms.
< 1275151461 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: tough shit, this is C, there are rules, albeit very few of them
< 1275151469 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to work on only x86/gcc, write anything that compiles
< 1275151484 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :char *foo(...) { return "Fuck you, C"; }
< 1275151495 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c
< 1275151518 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c char *foo(...) { return "Fuck you, C";}
< 1275151519 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does not compile.
< 1275151527 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compiler says no.
< 1275151557 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The new album from Radiohead; a sequel to "OK Computer"... the stunning, critically acclaimed...
< 1275151560 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :COMPILER SAYS NO
< 1275152097 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c char *foo() { return "Fuck you, C";}
< 1275152147 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no output means it compiles?
< 1275152180 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c char *foo(){return "Fuck you, C";} int main(){printf("%s\n", foo())}
< 1275152181 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1275152181 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does not compile.
< 1275152194 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c int fuck() { return 0; } int main() { fuck(1,2,3,"abc"); }
< 1275152206 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm may need a newline between functions
< 1275152211 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c int fuck() { return 0; } int main() { fuck(1,2,3,"abc"); printf("Sex robots\n"); }
< 1275152212 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sex robots
< 1275152224 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c char *foo(){return "Fuck you, C";} int main(){printf("%s\n",  foo());}
< 1275152225 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck you, C
< 1275152241 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :semicolon ;-)
< 1275152242 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c char *foo(){return "Fuck you, C";} int main(){printf("%s\n",  foo("FUCKING","POGO","STICKS","RRRRRRRRRRRRNGH"));}
< 1275152243 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck you, C
< 1275152245 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c char *foo(...){return "Fuck you, C";} int main(){printf("%s\n",  foo());}
< 1275152245 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does not compile.
< 1275152250 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that this is all undefined.
< 1275152257 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Passing a function more arguments than it takes? Yeah, undefined.
< 1275152260 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good luck. Have fun.
< 1275152301 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help c
< 1275152302 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, I have no help for c!
< 1275152311 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!which c
< 1275152423 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!cat `which c`
< 1275152433 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ls
< 1275152447 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh ls
< 1275152447 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that's the other bot
< 1275152447 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interps
< 1275152479 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh ls interps
< 1275152480 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1l
< 1275152524 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh ls interps/gcccomp
< 1275152525 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcccomp
< 1275152538 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh cat interps/gcccomp/gcccomp
< 1275152538 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!/bin/bash
< 1275152568 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275152581 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523!
< 1275152610 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523
< 1275152629 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("test\n");
< 1275152631 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test
< 1275152646 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1275152646 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("test");
< 1275152648 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test
< 1275152650 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("test\n")
< 1275152651 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test
< 1275152656 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I lost in the second round in the PokĂ©mon tournament, in the end
< 1275152662 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("test")
< 1275152663 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: aw, bad luck!
< 1275152663 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test
< 1275152674 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ...so perl6 has * now, meaning... anything? apparently you can use it to select "any item of a list" or something
< 1275152678 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he had a pretty good team (RNGed like mine was), and outpredicted me on the second turn
< 1275152680 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it pick a random element or something?
< 1275152685 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: * has meant "anything" for a while
< 1275152696 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so does @foo[*] work?
< 1275152699 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's a sort-of quantifier, in a sence
< 1275152700 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: So wait, you game the RNG?
< 1275152701 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sense
< 1275152708 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@foo[*] means "every element in @foo"
< 1275152715 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yes, in order to get the teams in the first place
< 1275152735 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the in-battle RNG hasn't been hacked, and anyway it would be impossible to control the seed in tournament conditions
< 1275152778 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://shaym.in/apps/iv_checker if you're interested
< 1275152781 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote that, although I'm not hosting it
< 1275152823 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically you enter the stats you want and it says "set your game to such and such a date and time, start with a delay of such and such a time period, use the nth seed to get your PokĂ©mon"
< 1275152895 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there ?
< 1275152897 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@foo[?] = any elemnt
< 1275152898 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*element
< 1275152924 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that cute or what http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs208.snc1/7535_159039461451_520306451_2810195_1099162_n.jpg
< 1275152988 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm trying to get it to give me the shittiest magikarp imaginable :(
< 1275153001 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: heh
< 1275153004 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: More than a little creepy.
< 1275153023 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's creepy?
< 1275153025 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has never played Pokemon stuff (except Pokemon Snap, with a friend, a long time ago)
< 1275153035 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I have read books (again, a long time ago)
< 1275153072 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover?
< 1275153090 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I think * means both and you can use any() or all() to switch
< 1275153094 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: That's taken from Facebook, as far as I can tell.
< 1275153100 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1275153101 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and?
< 1275153104 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's creepy?
< 1275153115 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1275153121 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just...
< 1275153133 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well?
< 1275153134 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I want IVs from Stats right?
< 1275153145 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: probably the other way round
< 1275153147 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set all the IVs to 0
< 1275153151 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it'll give you the minimum stats
< 1275153158 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: tried that, it didn't give me any RNG options
< 1275153172 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: what nature did you set?
< 1275153178 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most natures are impossible with any given set of IVs
< 1275153181 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's one of the way you hack-check
< 1275153188 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. a flawless PokĂ©mon has to be either Modest or Timid
< 1275153196 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unspecified characteristic right?
< 1275153196 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's probably a similar restriction on an anti-flawless PokĂ©mon
< 1275153199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: right
< 1275153204 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't care about that
< 1275153209 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor hidden power, probably
< 1275153212 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay
< 1275153223 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brave 0-level 0-hp 0-atk 0-def 0-spa 0-spd 0-spe brave(! :D) magikarp
< 1275153240 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait no
< 1275153250 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seed 5DD69706, delay 12238, frame 7 gives hp 10, atk 5, def 5, spa 5, spd 5, spe 4
< 1275153255 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's rubbish :((
< 1275153262 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's close to the minimum possible
< 1275153268 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(brave raises atk and reduces spe)
< 1275153272 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1275153274 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries other natures
< 1275153281 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all natures are either neutral
< 1275153284 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or raise one stat and drop one
< 1275153293 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :docile gives hp 10, all others 5
< 1275153295 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is worse
< 1275153302 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brave is the worst possible, then
< 1275153306 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if its atk boost isn't doing anything
< 1275153307 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hasty gives all 5 except def=4
< 1275153312 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you may as well factor in the spe or def drop
< 1275153323 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, 12238 is a painfully high delay
< 1275153336 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that 60 is one second, and 3600 is one minute
< 1275153341 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd be waiting for ages on the title screen
< 1275153359 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cannot believe you people would rather talk about pokemon than hot chicks
< 1275153363 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Sgeo_> (I have an irrational fear of Perl and PHP)
< 1275153363 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<yath> NEVER
< 1275153363 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<yath> EVER
< 1275153363 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<yath> PUT PHP AND PERL INTO THE SAME SENTENCE
< 1275153369 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::()
< 1275153396 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, what about perl php and coldfusion?
< 1275153397 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: heh
< 1275153399 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so skip ahead with a simulator
< 1275153402 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dur
< 1275153408 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<yath> php is just a nice invention to keep the dumbasses away from perl
< 1275153412 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: that would defeat the point of controlling the RNG
< 1275153415 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway 3.399{4r} minutes isn't so bad
< 1275153430 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is being accurate to 1/60 of a second after that long
< 1275153433 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so what's the absolute worst pokemon I can get, do you know?
< 1275153441 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably not a magikarp, if it has a whole 10hp and ~5 stats
< 1275153446 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, there are some that are very bad
< 1275153452 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you just care about low stats, try sunkern
< 1275153455 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :magikarp has the advantage of having no attacks
< 1275153460 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1275153464 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually have a book on ColdFusion somewhere
< 1275153467 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you need the worst ever pokemon?
< 1275153467 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Unown has fewer
< 1275153467 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(attacks are generally considered bad because they can be used to hurt the other pokemon, which might upset it)
< 1275153473 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it deals damage
< 1275153473 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Wut?
< 1275153477 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: KINDNESS
< 1275153480 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the new ones magikarp learns tackle, doesn't it?
< 1275153481 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Unown learns a grand total of 1 attack
< 1275153481 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that actually an objective?
< 1275153485 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to Magikarp's 4
< 1275153487 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the game?
< 1275153489 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(splash, tackle, bounce, flail)
< 1275153491 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Magikarp used to learn only Splash
< 1275153495 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: nope
< 1275153500 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's learnt Tackle at lv.15 forever
< 1275153502 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what's the difference between 1, j and k
< 1275153506 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm
< 1275153511 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: depends on how you're catching the PokĂ©mon
< 1275153525 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, magikarps aren't always completely useless?
< 1275153527 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the case of Magikarp, you're probably fishing, so J on Diamond/Pearl/Platinum and K on HeartGold and SoulSilver
< 1275153531 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my god I want a level 100 magikarp now <3
< 1275153539 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: pah, what about us sapphire owners
< 1275153541 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: there's a Magikarp sweep on Youtube somewhere
< 1275153543 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Magikarp can also learn Surf.
< 1275153548 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darn, you're right, it did
< 1275153551 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly i have one of the ds ones
< 1275153551 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Surf is actually a *good* move.
< 1275153552 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget which
< 1275153552 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Sapphire uses method 1, 2, 3, or 4, but the reasoning behind which hasn't been determined yet
< 1275153555 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :diamond i think
< 1275153556 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it doesn't
< 1275153561 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it only learned Splash back in Gen 1
< 1275153563 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gyarados does, Magikarp doesn't because it doesn't learn TMs and HMs
< 1275153569 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ... Wait, a water type that doesn't learn surf?
< 1275153574 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God damn Magikarp sucks.
< 1275153578 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, Kakuna and company only learn Harden
< 1275153585 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the max stats for the various ones? I know little of pokeman's workings
< 1275153590 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Unown only learns Hidden Power
< 1275153596 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hidden Power's an attack, though
< 1275153600 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kakuna's incapable of doing any damage
< 1275153601 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HIDDEN BECAUSE IT CAN'T DO SHIT LOL
< 1275153602 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: you can look up the max stats for a particular PokĂ©mon
< 1275153607 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I'm pretty sure the breeding mechanic lets you get a Magikarp with other moves.
< 1275153610 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Kakuna can be tutored Bug Bite, IIRC
< 1275153616 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it's restricted to Bounce
< 1275153620 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :four moves total
< 1275153621 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Not in Gen 1, at least according to Bulbapedia
< 1275153623 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not positive, though, because I never tried)
< 1275153631 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.smogon.com/rb/pokemon/magikarp/moves
< 1275153634 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: God damn Magikarp sucks.
< 1275153636 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two in gen 1, splash and tackle
< 1275153642 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :flail came up later, bounce is a tutor move IIRC
< 1275153645 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from gen 4
< 1275153647 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Magikarp_(Pok%C3%A9mon)#Pok.C3.A9dex_entries_2 HAHAHAHA the pokedex fucking hates magikarp
< 1275153656 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're a horribly weak, pathetic Pokemon! Die the fuck out already!
< 1275153661 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: which pokedex?
< 1275153665 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of them
< 1275153668 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :click the link, it has them all
< 1275153669 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: There's also that one move you get when you're out of PP. :)
< 1275153670 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Before gen 4 Kakuna learned only Harden; but yeah, in 4 it can be tutored stuff
< 1275153673 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, Smogon
< 1275153679 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It evolves into Gyarados starting at level 20.
< 1275153682 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can avoid evolving right?
< 1275153685 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes
< 1275153687 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1275153688 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but can you get a level 100 magikarp
< 1275153690 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want a bit of fun, http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/kakuna
< 1275153692 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, you can,
< 1275153693 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*can
< 1275153694 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1275153699 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WOOT
< 1275153717 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone complete the game with just ridiculously overpowered magikarps, please
< 1275153718 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh, gen 4
< 1275153723 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was fond of level 100 Gyarados, though
< 1275153728 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: it can have poison sting and string shot if it evolved from a weedle
< 1275153730 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even in gen 1
< 1275153733 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK GYRADOS magikarp is superior
< 1275153734 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I shall in a bit.
< 1275153756 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I sit down and play Pokemon Green.
< 1275153759 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: True enough
< 1275153773 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just love the strategy analysis for kakuna, anyway
< 1275153782 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it was originally a reaction to a bout of trolling
< 1275153791 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where someone repeatedly claimed kakuna should have an analysis
< 1275153794 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and grew from there
< 1275153816 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Bah, oldschool is for wimps
< 1275153824 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does metapod have one too? :-P
< 1275153826 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sapphire was the best Pokemon game frrlz (I assert this because I have it)
< 1275153831 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH MY GOD level 100 metapod
< 1275153836 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VERY YES.
< 1275153846 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Metapod is essentially equivalent to Kakuna
< 1275153871 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I don't think so
< 1275153884 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn, Kakuna's Bug/Poison
< 1275153884 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :magikarp / metapod / kakuna TEAM OF WINNERS
< 1275153892 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so they're a bit different
< 1275153896 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But they have the same moveset
< 1275153904 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eeep
< 1275153905 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pronun=<math>Ka-KOO-nuh</math>|
< 1275153907 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ummm...
< 1275153918 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, this isn't bulbapedia
< 1275153922 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's some wikia thing
< 1275153924 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"With Python, you might be forced to use nano!" "When?" "If, say, the customer doesn't have vim installed"
< 1275153924 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other humorous analyses include http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/unown and http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/luvdisc
< 1275153937 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: what
< 1275153941 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :luvdisc is amusing because it's very fast and its other moves are pathetic
< 1275153944 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*other stats
< 1275153949 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and its only good moves are those that raise Speed
< 1275153954 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1275153966 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Magikarp
< 1275153967 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Swift Swim
< 1275153967 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speed doubles in rain.
< 1275153968 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh that's just greaT
< 1275153969 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*great
< 1275153998 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it's actually a useful ability
< 1275154034 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Luvdisc is great if you're playing with Battle Timeout, because its mere presence should cause your opponent to laugh at it for so long that you win the match."
< 1275154041 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_<
< 1275154049 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD
< 1275154063 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION knows little about Pokemon
< 1275154072 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can teach it surf and ice beam and stuff, it can't be bad
< 1275154077 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION remembers his automatic-virtual-server-for-one-command thing
< 1275154078 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that there are Pokemon named Mew and Mewtoo/Mew2/?
< 1275154096 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: play the pokemon games immediately.
< 1275154097 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: ...
< 1275154099 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it's mewtwo.
< 1275154104 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you're how old?
< 1275154105 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20?
< 1275154106 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ăźăĄă‚¦ă„ăĽ
< 1275154118 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW DID YOU NOT PLAY POKEMON
< 1275154127 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275154148 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never had a handheld game thing
< 1275154159 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW DID YOU NOT PLAY POKEMON
< 1275154160 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only played it on an emulator
< 1275154181 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Pokemon Snap count?
< 1275154198 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO
< 1275154218 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Buy a DS.
< 1275154222 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get a Pokemon game.
< 1275154225 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Play; endlessly.
< 1275154236 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Buying a DS just for PokĂ©mon is a bit of a waste IMO
< 1275154249 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I bought a GBC just for Pokemon.
< 1275154261 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tend to get bored of the PokĂ©mon games pretty quickly
< 1275154265 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It then got used for other games, but still.
< 1275154277 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: The DS is good anyway, so eh
< 1275154278 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well.
< 1275154280 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not so bad, at least.
< 1275154286 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had an obsession about that game...
< 1275154289 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could get a GBA really cheap though I bet
< 1275154292 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I'd get a GBA SP
< 1275154297 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the GBA's lack of a backlight was stupidity personified
< 1275154298 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if you can think of uses for it / other games to play, sure
< 1275154302 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an original DS should be pretty cheap by now
< 1275154310 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: nothing before the GBA had a backlight either
< 1275154314 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but i have a soft spot before the gba sp :P
< 1275154316 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has played through Blue and Gold at least 3 times each.
< 1275154320 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but the gba had more colour detail
< 1275154323 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it had more darker areas
< 1275154326 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for e.g. grass and stuff
< 1275154328 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorta
< 1275154336 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about the original GB? :-P
< 1275154343 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not much colour detail there
< 1275154345 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Uh... Game Gear?
< 1275154349 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, you know, colour at all
< 1275154359 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant, no Nintendo portable
< 1275154365 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than nothing in general
< 1275154373 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, the Gameboy Light?
< 1275154375 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slight disadvantage to the GB: Tetris and Pokemon, ok, you can throw it away now
< 1275154385 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Zelda!
< 1275154395 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Buy an SNES
< 1275154399 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Final Fantasy Adventure
< 1275154402 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(aka Mystic Quest)
< 1275154409 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Metroid II
< 1275154410 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Also true, but the Zelda games for it were good.
< 1275154414 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok fine you win
< 1275154420 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: the GBA had a little attachable light too that pointed at the front
< 1275154423 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :powered by its battery
< 1275154425 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it was shit, though.
< 1275154429 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1275154433 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The Gameboy Light was a backlight Gameboy Pocket.
< 1275154437 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was good enough to play in the dark, but still awful
< 1275154440 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My dad found a PSP that he might give me. Can Pokemon games run on that?
< 1275154447 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, wrong company
< 1275154450 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sony rather than Nintendo
< 1275154455 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Yes, emulator.
< 1275154457 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can it emulate?
< 1275154478 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1275154480 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The PSP is shitty though
< 1275154488 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite heavy, and uh... rubbish controls... and rubbish everything...
< 1275154490 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it sucks dick...
< 1275154539 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_ (or anyone else here): I'll play you on a simulator if you like
< 1275154559 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll play! VirtualBoy Advance doesn't work on Linux right?
< 1275154562 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would doing that involve anything illegal?
< 1275154566 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Yes.
< 1275154577 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: It works through wine IIRC
< 1275154581 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although ais523 probably legally scanned his ROM or something
< 1275154590 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I mean the ones that do the game mechanics separately
< 1275154597 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which avoid copyright trouble because they're a reimplementation
< 1275154597 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Oh. Lame
< 1275154599 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather htan the original code
< 1275154600 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*than
< 1275154603 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would doing whatever involve something that could easily make me get caught (and I count BitTorrent in that)
< 1275154608 0 :Mathnerd314_!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275154612 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: at least my way's legal
< 1275154613 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, those exist? Should've guessed I suppose
< 1275154619 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol @ bittorrent easily get caught
< 1275154621 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: at least three
< 1275154633 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes sgeo is funny. othertimes i just want to bash my head against a brick wall
< 1275154637 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://birdiesoft.dk/software.php?id=2 high-tech
< 1275154639 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I guess for more obscure things, the liklihood is low
< 1275154646 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the likelihood is ~0
< 1275154655 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bittorrent has other nasty side effects
< 1275154662 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like getting your ISP to throttle you for the rest of the mont
< 1275154663 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*month
< 1275154668 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for using too much bandwidth
< 1275154670 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only if you have a shitty isp
< 1275154676 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cablevision
< 1275154676 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any isp that does that is irrevocably evil
< 1275154686 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't know if it does that
< 1275154697 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and I can't open any ports on the router
< 1275154732 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: My ISP is irrevocably evil.
< 1275154759 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though it's a function of "you used too much bandwidth; no bandwidth for you!" rather than "you used Bittorrent; no bandwidth for you!"
< 1275154779 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1275154782 0 :Mathnerd314_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Mathnerd314
< 1275154806 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MOAR LIEK A "DYS"FUNCTION LOL
< 1275154875 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is bandwidth expensive or something? why do people throttle it?
< 1275154892 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably because they don't have enough for all their customers
< 1275154926 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275154989 0 :melnibo_!~melnibo@85.26.164.207 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275154990 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: US ISPs prefer to make 0 improvements on infrastructure.
< 1275155001 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It was good enough in '95, it's good enough now!"
< 1275155050 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the language code for latin?
< 1275155059 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :la
< 1275155061 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :& is it correct to mark Lorem Ipsum filler in it? :-)
< 1275155072 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lorem ipsum isn't latin any more
< 1275155075 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only if it's Latin instead of pseudo-Latin
< 1275155077 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but it's not english either
< 1275155083 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's no pseudo-la :-)
< 1275155092 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a latin poem, but its letter frequency distribution was changed to that of English
< 1275155102 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, just like I'd mark "Bob knob hobs deathly poop violation EXCREMENT unto;" as English
< 1275155106 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd mark "Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit." as Latin
< 1275155125 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I guess if even the spelling is wrong...
< 1275155169 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dolorem ipsum quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit
< 1275155185 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: that's great filler
< 1275155187 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so some words are actually intact... "do" is dropped from one word, and "ng" added to another
< 1275155197 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's like
< 1275155199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one you'd mark as English, that is
< 1275155204 0 :melnibo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1275155214 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bobbington eathly worked EXCREM un;to
< 1275155224 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well it contains all the important words in the english language...
< 1275155277 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote <alise> like, just like I'd mark "Bob knob hobs deathly poop violation EXCREMENT unto;" as English <ais523> alise: that's great filler <alise> ais523: well it contains all the important words in the english language...
< 1275155287 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :167|<alise> like, just like I'd mark "Bob knob hobs deathly poop violation EXCREMENT unto;" as English <ais523> alise: that's great filler <alise> ais523: well it contains all the important words in the english language...
< 1275155297 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, usually we put two spaces before the next message! :P (kidding)
< 1275155349 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr, stupid parsers
< 1275155637 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY WON'T YOU WORK!
< 1275155991 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION monadically parses alise 
< 1275156001 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll monad your parsec
< 1275156115 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, http://torrentfreak.com/hurt-locker-makers-sue-5000-bittorrent-users-100529/
< 1275156153 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: btw, you can hover your mouse over the delay in that IV checker to give you the corresponding time and date
< 1275156164 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: so basically they sued a ton of people without actually knowing shit about them
< 1275156165 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense
< 1275156230 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lolol@hurt locker
< 1275156281 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cupidtino is a beautiful new dating site created for fans of Apple products by fans of Apple products! Why? Diehard Mac & Apple fans often have a lot in common – personalities, creative professions, a similar sense of style and aesthetics, taste, and of course a love for technology. We believe these are enough reasons for two people to meet and fall in love, and so we created the first Mac-inspired dating site to help you find other Machearts around you.
< 1275156281 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cupidtino will launch in June 2010 exclusively on Apple platforms – Safari, iPhone and iPad apps. It’s time to share the love.
< 1275156290 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's ... it actually seems to be real
< 1275156295 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is
< 1275156299 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been in the WSJ
< 1275156312 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can believe it
< 1275156325 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahahaha
< 1275156331 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Is it wrong for a straight guy to *want* to watch Sex & the City?" --@cupidtinoCA
< 1275156379 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://online.wsj.com/media/cupidtino_D_20100507111722.jpg
< 1275156513 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you release something exclusively for Safari?
< 1275156534 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cleverly
< 1275156579 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, Safari on Windows exists.
< 1275156664 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rofl
< 1275156713 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :setting something up so it works on Safari yet not, say, Chrome or Epiphany seems tricky without resorting to tricks like user-agent sniffing
< 1275156809 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: what do you think about Apple overtaking Microsoft in market capitalization?
< 1275156817 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc, it's not the only measure of success, but I'm pretty amazed at it
< 1275156823 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You're joking.
< 1275156834 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, it was all over the tech news
< 1275156844 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, nobody likes MS much.
< 1275156908 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is using their Operating System
< 1275156923 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://online.barrons.com/article/SB127508624930598443.html for instance
< 1275156945 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also interesting is that Apple now has the second-highest market cap of any publicly-traded US company, after ExxonMobil
< 1275156955 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite a few people think it's a bubble, but it's still surprising
< 1275156992 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1275157037 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so
< 1275157038 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275157042 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have just found a hot chick on facebook
< 1275157046 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except
< 1275157051 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :she has the same last name as i do
< 1275157060 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT DO
< 1275157073 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Change your name.
< 1275157076 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :leave Facebook
< 1275157115 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I rarely add people I don't know IRL to Facebook
< 1275157122 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not even a member of Facebook
< 1275157126 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: I hear they don't call it incest any more
< 1275157127 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that site is scary
< 1275157166 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, this is scary: http://sshkeygen.com/
< 1275157193 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why scary? i just think it's pointless
< 1275157211 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: have you seen what they do with the information stored there?
< 1275157219 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, how they put a huge amount of pressure on people not to leave
< 1275157300 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I admit that I just checked alise's profile on Reddit?
< 1275157336 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why?
< 1275157385 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mentioned Steve Pavlina
< 1275157401 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's the guy who took down Dexterity Games to run some self-improvement articles
< 1275157405 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc
< 1275157415 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep
< 1275157417 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mentioning Steve Pavlina makes Sgeo check your Reddit profile?
< 1275157438 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently
< 1275157448 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all I know about steve pavlina is that his forums are shit and that he polyphased successfully.
< 1275157459 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION misses dexterity.com
< 1275157462 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have a Reddit profile, so it might be hard for him or her to do so
< 1275157522 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_ is an it
< 1275157627 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :years of habit on the Internet often give me a sudden burst of revulsion when I use a gendered pronoun for anything
< 1275157647 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"<ais523> also, how they put a huge amount of pressure on people not to leave" <<< what do you mean?
< 1275157664 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just uses Spivaks
< 1275157681 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why not just use "they"?
< 1275157704 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders how best to force ais523 to use a gendered pronoun
< 1275157712 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: if you leave Facebook, it goes and tells all your friends you defriended them
< 1275157723 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it does?
< 1275157724 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1275157728 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's considered a really bad thing by most Facebook users
< 1275157735 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People generally don't know when someone defriends someone
< 1275157744 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: you know if someone defriends /you/
< 1275157749 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless they're using [say] a Greasemonkey script
< 1275157751 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, really?
< 1275157755 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, no I don't
< 1275157774 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: I don't know this from personal experience
< 1275157776 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have NEVER gotten a notice that I was defriended
< 1275157784 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, maybe nobody's ever defriended you
< 1275157785 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even though I'm certain it's happened
< 1275157791 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a common thing to do on Facebook, it seems
< 1275157792 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: You're ehird on Reddit?
< 1275157799 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a Greasemonkey script for it
< 1275157809 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1275157822 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be obvious anyway, when they weren't marked as a friend when you tried to view their profile info
< 1275157825 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Whoever after due and proper warning shall be heard to utter the abominable word "Frisco", which has no linguistic or other warrant, shall be deemed guilty of a High Misdemeanor, and shall pay into the Imperial Treasury as penalty the sum of twenty-five dollars." --Norton I of the United States, Protector of Mexico
< 1275157826 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't recall getting a message when I was defriended.
< 1275157829 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes
< 1275157836 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although lately, Facebook by default shows all your info to everyone regardless of if they're friends or not...)
< 1275157838 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, *NORTON I, Emperor of the United States, Protector of Mexico
< 1275157840 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's not the same as getting a notice
< 1275157865 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: That iw.net link is *not* the worst-designed website.
< 1275157872 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Please see parent comment
< 1275157884 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's Archimedes Plutonium's website.
< 1275157889 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The whole universe is a plutonium atom, as we all know.
< 1275157904 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, this is #esoteric, not #esoteric!
< 1275157909 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Archimedes Plutonium?
< 1275157913 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh
< 1275157919 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, the parent comment's website is pretty awful.
< 1275157919 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 Emperor Norton
< 1275157926 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theories like that are the wrong sort of esoteric
< 1275157957 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you're the wrong sort of esoteric
< 1275157960 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Bella De Soto's is still the worst)
< 1275157980 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's gone DOWN!
< 1275157985 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOOO!
< 1275157991 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION checks the Archive.
< 1275157993 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, now I'm vaguely wondering if there are any websites which look fine and have no major problems, apart from being designed completely awfully
< 1275157998 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"When, during the Second Italo-Abyssinian War, the League accused Benito Mussolini's soldiers of targeting Red Cross medical tents, Mussolini responded that Ethiopians were not fully human, therefore the human rights laws did not apply."
< 1275158001 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(don't link me to one if you know one)
< 1275158025 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even the music of the bridal site is ugly
< 1275158033 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: surely the Red Cross weren't necessarily Ethiopian? Even discarding the premises being wrong, the reasoning is also wrong
< 1275158055 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that may have been because another tab was open
< 1275158064 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, not a good site to browse with tabs
< 1275158084 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Nort10d.jpg I'd love one of these.
< 1275158145 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275158213 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9c/Frank_chu_20060423.JPG Okay sir
< 1275158247 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :This room formed in honor of Norton the First, by the grace of God Emperor of the United States and Protector of Mexico | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D
< 1275158264 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :His signs change from day to day, and tend to go through syntactically-similar phases, with the phrase "12 Galaxies" being his trademark and a constant presence in the signs. In June 2007, Chu broke from this tradition and started replacing this with "85 Galaxies"[14], "130 Galaxies"[15], "800 Galaxies"[16], then "1000 Galaxies"[17]. At the 2007 Castro Halloween Party, Chu's sign claimed "7,645,000 Galaxies", at MacWorld 2008 he was up to 75,850,000[18], and
< 1275158265 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : at the Iraq War protest on March 19, 2008 he was up to 8,685,000,000[19].
< 1275158268 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH GOD WHEN WILL THE GALAXIES END
< 1275158279 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps make esolang with mahjong tiles, or tarot cards, or Washizu mahjong tiles
< 1275158290 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, not a bad idea
< 1275158301 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mahjong would work quite well
< 1275158307 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :This room formed in honor of Norton the First, by the grace of God Emperor of the United States and Protector of Mexico | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D
< 1275158314 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops.
< 1275158324 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: what did you change?
< 1275158331 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing.
< 1275158334 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing
< 1275158338 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops.
< 1275158340 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought so, so I was wondering what happened
< 1275158349 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be impossible to change the topic to itself...
< 1275158358 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :This room formed in honor of Norton the First, by the grace of God Emperor of the United States and Protector of Mexico | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D
< 1275158459 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't know exactly how, but maybe with tenpai operator and so on, and also, perhaps the different tile can also correspond to different command too, or maybe something else
< 1275158504 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Washizu mahjong means some of the tiles are transparent (I actually have a mahjong set like this, although it first appeared in manga before anyone actually made them)
< 1275158538 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, I own three sets of mahjong tiles
< 1275158548 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are the gloves really necessary?
< 1275158590 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Washizu mahjong the gloves are necessary, otherwise you can feel the tiles by your hand before you pick them up, and you can cheat
< 1275158607 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can they actually be felt?
< 1275158634 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what do they call it then? ^_^
< 1275158644 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, they are engraved, they can be felt
< 1275158740 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :accurately?
< 1275158755 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you are good at it, yes
< 1275158768 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some people can
< 1275158770 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are all 3 of your sets japanese?
< 1275158804 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, only two are Japanese. One is for American mahjong. (I never play American mahjong however, but if someone wanted to play American mahjong, I could do so)
< 1275158823 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehh...
< 1275159070 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should probably shave at some point
< 1275159095 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like to play solitaire card? I have invented a few (including a cardset to go with it), but I have not typed a description of the rules yet
< 1275159105 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/PySol/
< 1275159113 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps I should post screenshots of the cardsets and stuff
< 1275159155 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Biggest problem with colored nicks: When the nicks are the same color, it can be confusing. If all nicks were the same color, I'd be paying attention to each line's nick, and not have this problem
< 1275159161 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought zzo38 was ais523
< 1275159170 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is 1 cardset and 6 games so far (in 2 ruleset files, each containing 3 games, which are similar with each-other in the same file)
< 1275159183 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: I don't see how you can possibly muddle zzo38 with anyone else in existence
< 1275159244 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Perhaps because of the digits at the end of "zzo38" and "ais523"? I don't know. Also, I am not cloaked (they won't give me the cloak I ask)
< 1275159276 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: zzo38 is a most unique individual. Hard to mistake.
< 1275159300 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :zzo523
< 1275159334 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BRB
< 1275159350 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The cloak I ask is forward DNS cloak, and they don't do forward DNS cloaks here.
< 1275159384 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The default when connecting is reverse DNS)
< 1275159414 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275159415 0 :zzo523!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ais523
< 1275159422 0 :AnMaster!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275159467 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to see who zzo38 is, just look for someone awesome
< 1275159519 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I doubt that will work, there is too many of everything like that
< 1275159529 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :name another awesome person in this room
< 1275159546 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1275159557 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise?
< 1275159586 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least half of us are awesome in one way or another
< 1275159594 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't think anyone's awesome in quite the same way zzo38 is
< 1275159605 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except zzo38 of course
< 1275159606 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok then, to figure out who zzo38 is look for someone who's zzawesome
< 1275159745 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GRR!! PARSERS ARE BROKEN 'N SHIT
< 1275159793 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to see who I am, look for the guy with Pocket Monster Philosopohical Level. I might be the only guy that has one of those!
< 1275159800 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pohical.
< 1275159811 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh wow, you should play zzo38
< 1275159812 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now
< 1275159833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever noticed how slow a gear ratio of 576:1 is?
< 1275159846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given reasonable input speeds for lego motors
< 1275159846 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever noticed how slow a gear ratio of 1,000,000:1 is?
< 1275159858 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/Philosopohical/Philosophical/
< 1275159863 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ever noticed how impractical a gear ratio of infinity:1 is?
< 1275159864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well that is a lot harder to achieve in lego.
< 1275159878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm, yeah hard to calculate on
< 1275159878 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pi:1 is just irrational HAW HAW HAW HAWH AWH IUAWHE IUAWHIUSFODJGKLSHGVKRLEGJH KLSE OIFOISDGH KSHJDSFL;KJKG
< 1275159880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never noticed it before
< 1275159916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it is just that it is easy to connect two 24:1 together, which gives you 576:1
< 1275159941 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slab serifs are lovely <3
< 1275159961 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I oughtta use Museo Slab for a reason
< 1275159964 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1275159965 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I oughtta use Museo Slab for something
< 1275159981 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're going to talk about typography again, I'm afraid I'll have to leave.
< 1275160082 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Then leave. People like you are why much modern text burns to look at.
< 1275160085 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BURNS.
< 1275160107 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My handwriting burns.
< 1275160114 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, idiots like you are the reason some people are still using non-monospace fonts
< 1275160126 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Computer typography is all fine compared to that.
< 1275160149 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm
< 1275160151 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: CJK languages work best with monospace.
< 1275160156 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm going to watch some SG-1
< 1275160160 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CJK?
< 1275160161 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nay, *should not ever be anything but monospace*.
< 1275160200 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vague grouping of Asian countries, including China, Japan, and Korea.
< 1275160221 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1275160289 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Been using monospace scripts forever.
< 1275160328 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, what did I do?
< 1275160359 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You RAPED my EYES
< 1275160369 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am utterly indifferent to all matters typographical.
< 1275160384 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Utterly indifferent?
< 1275160393 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you see nothing wrong with using nothing but MS Comic Sans?
< 1275160401 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, not utterly.
< 1275160472 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't see why non-monospace fonts are idiocy.
< 1275160510 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol is accusing typography nuts of keeping non-monospace fonts around.
< 1275160535 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, why?
< 1275160539 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes to watch the SG-1 pilot
< 1275160578 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's be honest: most monospace fonts look... Odd.
< 1275160587 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed.
< 1275160647 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@ppp-94-64-173-249.home.otenet.gr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275160656 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just accept oklopol is crazy
< 1275160657 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's what i did
< 1275160660 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am using monospace for IRC
< 1275160708 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most people do.
< 1275160728 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :bsmntbombdood
< 1275160731 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am reading Wikipedia in a non-monospace font.
< 1275160743 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, monospace fonts are good for some things.
< 1275160753 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Imagine, if you will, non-monospace Befunge.
< 1275160791 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you can invent such a thing as non-monospace Befunge. However you should have to use always a specific spacing otherwise it won't work
< 1275160810 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dispace Befunge.  Every character has one of two widths.
< 1275160834 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i use monospace everywhere i can, but i don't know how to convert pdf's to it
< 1275160841 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe alise can help me with that
< 1275160852 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would you use monospace for Wikipedia?
< 1275160865 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that it's easier to read
< 1275160866 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pdftotext
< 1275160879 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-monospaced text is a pain to read
< 1275160881 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh.
< 1275160892 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh... No, it's not?
< 1275160903 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, yes it is
< 1275160905 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oklopol> maybe alise can help me with that
< 1275160905 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I refuse
< 1275160910 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: oklopol does not have normal human anatomy
< 1275160911 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1275160911 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :accept this
< 1275160913 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a pain to read if you're oklopol, it's not a pain to read if you're pikhq.
< 1275160916 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're fucking kidding me.
< 1275160929 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq just accept it
< 1275160940 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i also like allcaps
< 1275160948 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO DO I.
< 1275160954 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OKLOPOL: ANYWAY YES PDFTOTEXT. ALSO, MAY I SAY,
< 1275160956 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: YOU DO NOT HAVE A NORMAL VISUAL CORTEX
< 1275160956 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you used small allcaps, that would be better than non-allcaps
< 1275160964 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT IF YOU ARE EVER IN POSSESSION OF A MICROSOFT WORD DOCUMENT, AND DESIRE TO READ IT IN MONOSPACED TEXT,
< 1275160968 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :USE "NOWORD"
< 1275160975 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OR WHATEVER IT IS CALLED
< 1275160978 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT WILL PLEASE YOU MOST GREATLY.
< 1275161020 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never use word documents but good to know
< 1275161058 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OKLOPOL: WHAT ON EARTH?
< 1275161090 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1275161160 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT IS WRONG WITH NON-MONOSPACE?
< 1275161192 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i's are too narrow
< 1275161205 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>>
< 1275161215 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(THAT IS ... IN ALL CAPS.)
< 1275161223 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most letters are okay, but when i see an i, i throw up
< 1275161232 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :::: on my kb
< 1275161245 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I now added in screen-shots of the solitaire games http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/PySol/
< 1275161333 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: ALL-CAPS works better in mono-space than non-mono-space in my opinion
< 1275161349 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes X works better in mono-space
< 1275161376 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: your Deadfish Forth interpreter is not bug-for-bug compatible
< 1275161415 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: You may be right. I haven't tried to make it bug-for-bug compatible, however. (But fix it if you want to)
< 1275161423 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that mean+
< 1275161424 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It is wiki, so of course someone can fix it!)
< 1275161424 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1275161487 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: the original deadfish (in C) was weird, and many of the interpreters try to preserve the strange behavior
< 1275161517 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't really know forth, alas
< 1275161538 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i note there is no broken wrapping on 256 :D
< 1275161547 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or any wrapping for that matter)
< 1275161564 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not all the interpreters on that page preserve the strange behavior, but some might do so
< 1275161575 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: You are right about no wrapping, however.
< 1275161581 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it is not difficult to fix
< 1275161590 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can fix it if you wanted it fixed, I suppose
< 1275161607 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be nice
< 1275161679 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is one program I write which does try to preserve the old strange behavior, called CZZT. It tries to preserve the old strange behavior of ZZT by trying to implement it in the similar way to how I imagine Tim Sweeney to have originally implemented it. (The original source-code for ZZT was written in Pascal, and has been lost. My copy is in C, although I try to implement Pascal-style strings and such)
< 1275161727 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275161775 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament!
< 1275161873 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There, now I have implemented the broken wrapping. Is OK now?
< 1275161954 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think so
< 1275161956 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1275162013 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275162026 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, it doesn't output a newline after each number either, but maybe it is supposed to do that too
< 1275162087 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i consider exact I/O compatibility more optional
< 1275162124 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I am considering the same
< 1275162129 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although i've tried to do it in the ones i made)
< 1275162184 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which ones did you make?
< 1275162233 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell, perl, unlambda
< 1275162356 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK
< 1275162474 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This particular Forth code is for Gforth. (Other Forth systems might not support the 'i' 'd' constants, although they could be added in, the thing in Forth is that you can add in stuff like that!)
< 1275162566 0 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-197-238.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275162568 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, some Forth systems are more minimal and there might be other things in this program it also doesn't support. However, any ANS-compliant Forth system should run it (possibly apart from the ' ' constants), since everything else in this program is ANS-compliant.
< 1275162587 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw
< 1275162589 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Some non-ANS-compliant Forth systems might also run it)
< 1275162608 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my neighbor has introduced me to his friend's teen daughter
< 1275162612 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet 16!
< 1275162628 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hay! No cheating! Put the gloves like everyone else has to!
< 1275162689 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm definitely not wearing a glove with her
< 1275162701 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to feel every luscious square milimeter inside her
< 1275162714 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I mean the glove for mahjong
< 1275162720 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1275162737 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i definitely wouldn't play mahjongg with her
< 1275162753 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, then.
< 1275162776 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is this esoteric
< 1275162799 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know
< 1275162802 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's talk about encryption instead
< 1275162842 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: i think it's too late for you to start using encryption at this point
< 1275162843 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the longest password hash string you encounter when using the common algorithms?
< 1275162854 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, explain
< 1275162870 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i guess it depends how old you are
< 1275162875 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and where
< 1275162883 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16 is legal
< 1275162911 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah germany
< 1275162914 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HEXARC is a encryption algorithm that is like ARCFOUR however it run forward and backward simultaneously, uses initialization vectors, uses garbage data and propagation, and uses multiple passes (the number of passes is part of the password), and uses a 1000-bit key
< 1275162932 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has this tendency to assume us by default
< 1275162934 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially if her mom is an eastern european migrant who introduces me and then 10 minutes later remarks 'oh, then he's probably rich too!'
< 1275162947 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :once that is said, she might as well be 12
< 1275162955 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :=)
< 1275162957 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :=O
< 1275162997 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Actually, it uses a log2(256!) bit key)
< 1275163057 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pics?
< 1275163062 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of the encryption algo
< 1275163096 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no pics
< 1275163101 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pictures of encryption algorithms?
< 1275163106 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1275163107 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :picard is dancing mambo
< 1275163113 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can you have pictures of that?
< 1275163120 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well umm
< 1275163130 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've seen diagrams of sorts
< 1275163134 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he means 16-bit encryption algorithms
< 1275163149 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, look up the SELECT operator on wikipedia
< 1275163154 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well that old one with twining papers around sticks seems pretty picturable
< 1275163157 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is back on the Brainfuck compilation thing
< 1275163178 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This time, in Haskell, because optimising a parse tree is a bitch in C.
< 1275163191 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And just some pattern matching in Haskell.
< 1275163196 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: can you take pictures
< 1275163197 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: The ones with a physical process could have a photograph of the physical apparatus used to execute the encryption algorithm
< 1275163213 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes, enigma etc.
< 1275163226 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, who knows
< 1275163280 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have a webcam on my computer, but if I did, I could use it to read QR codes. (I would also leave it unconnected while I am not using it, for at least two reasons)
< 1275163286 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: beat esotope
< 1275163317 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the esotope beat
< 1275163329 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Eventually, perhaps.
< 1275163334 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there anything in Linux you might be able to capture webcam pictures using a command such as:  convert /dev/webcam out.jpg
< 1275163338 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION leaves that to Gregor
< 1275163347 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(where "convert" is the ImageMagick convert command)
< 1275163347 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I intend to target assembly.
< 1275163369 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because C compilers handle Brainfuck-compiled-to-C *poorly*.
< 1275163384 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, "load the pointer into a register for every instruction" poorly.
< 1275163399 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Howso?
< 1275163489 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: target your own machine language
< 1275163492 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then compile that to asm
< 1275163597 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: pikhq: how do you swap left and right audio channels in linux
< 1275163609 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turn your computer upside-down
< 1275163614 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(real answer: I don't know)
< 1275163661 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I don't know of anything like that, but it seems unlikely
< 1275163669 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would maybe have to write a kernel module specifically for that
< 1275163703 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, do you like this feature, if it were implemented?
< 1275163710 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes, it's a clever idea
< 1275163723 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how you use a webcam at all under Linux...
< 1275163724 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you would like plan 9
< 1275163727 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed
< 1275163728 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: gui apps
< 1275163745 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have to have my speakers wrong way around
< 1275163747 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to cord length :D
< 1275163749 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another feature I would like to use is something that allows you to copy to clipboard using a command such as:  ls > /proc/X/9p/CLIPBOARD
< 1275163752 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i need to swap the two channels
< 1275163765 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: is it physically possible to swap the wire connections?
< 1275163772 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you need a software solution?
< 1275163779 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: only if i crack open the speakers
< 1275163784 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know there is a software solution
< 1275163784 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it is always possible to swap the wire if you can cut the wires and stuff like that, at least.
< 1275163786 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just not sure what it is
< 1275163789 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also, what's wrong with mirror-reflected sound? are you playing PokĂ©mon or something?)
< 1275163799 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can I tell ALSA to swap the left and right stereo channels on my soundcard?
< 1275163799 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Add this to your ~/.asoundrc file:
< 1275163799 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : pcm.swapped {
< 1275163799 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    type         route
< 1275163799 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    slave.pcm    "cards.pcm.default"
< 1275163799 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    ttable.0.1   1
< 1275163801 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    ttable.1.0   1
< 1275163803 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :}
< 1275163807 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do alsa settings still work for pulseaudio systems?
< 1275163809 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: music
< 1275163814 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, why do you need correct sound for pokemon?
< 1275163823 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: because sounds come from the left if they're to do with your team
< 1275163828 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or from the right to do with the opponent's
< 1275163830 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa
< 1275163831 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really?
< 1275163834 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's very weird if you put your headphones on backwards
< 1275163836 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1275163842 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i always just use the little speaker
< 1275163845 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i never knew
< 1275163852 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to set the options for stereo sound, but that might be the default for all I know
< 1275163873 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which generation of pokemon game did you mean?
< 1275163876 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#ESOTERIC
< 1275163876 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IS
< 1275163878 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DEAD;
< 1275163878 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NETCRAFT
< 1275163879 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: all since second
< 1275163879 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CONFIRMS
< 1275163879 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT
< 1275163885 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly first too
< 1275163887 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK
< 1275163892 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, we need The #esoteric Times
< 1275163898 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Currently, I've got the infrastructure for this set up, and for testing purposes, it just outputs Brainfuck after optimisations.
< 1275163910 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optimising BF into BF?
< 1275163911 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what's up oklopol
< 1275163918 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or into BF-plus-extra-instructions?
< 1275163923 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have written optimize BF into BF in JavaScript.
< 1275163945 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Just BF. It's more a test to make sure my parser is correct than anything else.
< 1275163952 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders upon tits
< 1275163952 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can anyone think of an obvious use for a BF pessimizer?
< 1275163960 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why the hell does google not search for non-alphanumerics??
< 1275163965 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't, but if anyone can, it's us
< 1275163975 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though it is quite nice for dealing with poorly auto-generated code.
< 1275163979 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(such as LostKng)
< 1275163981 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, because they strip it before indexing
< 1275164007 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why?
< 1275164019 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some people might write code the "most pessimum" in order to make the speed correctly
< 1275164045 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can I reverse my left and right speaker channels? ¶
< 1275164046 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the same as "reverse stereo", where the left and right channels are to be swapped.
< 1275164046 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat /proc/asound/cards and use the name string for the device you wish to use (the one in square brackets)
< 1275164046 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Edit /etc/pulse/default.pa and comment out module-hal-detect and module-detect lines.
< 1275164047 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Search for the commented-out line that starts "#load-module module-alsa-sink", uncomment it and change it to
< 1275164050 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :load-module module-alsa-sink device=hw:[answer from step 0] channel_map=right,left
< 1275164052 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Restart the pulseaudio deamon by running pulseaudio -k; pulseaudio -D
< 1275164054 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how obvious
< 1275164078 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which probably shouldn't be done on modern computers however, except possibly if you are programming a GameBoy program or something like that, in which the CPU speed will always be the same way anyways
< 1275164123 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise
< 1275164127 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your nick was 'ehird' before?
< 1275164144 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes
< 1275164145 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why
< 1275164150 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1275164152 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, damn.
< 1275164153 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: don't say that, he's probably trying to stalk me.
< 1275164155 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i remember you now
< 1275164157 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry.
< 1275164160 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1275164163 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: lol, hi.
< 1275164168 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't you hate me or something
< 1275164170 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc.
< 1275164234 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1275164236 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1275164241 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1275164242 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/bgPQ
< 1275164242 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought you did
< 1275164246 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now for a code generator!
< 1275164249 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you were totally my sweet, sweet bottom
< 1275164364 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see.
< 1275164375 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, those taste very good: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horned_melon
< 1275164508 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: too many newlines.
< 1275164516 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shitty if/else indentation; use | guards instead
< 1275164563 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone know how to nuke pulseaudio so that my ubuntu box uses alsa. i am sick of this shit fo shur
< 1275164620 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd do pretty (Add x:xs) = case compare x 0 of EQ -> ... LT -> ... GT -> ...
< 1275164632 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I much prefer
< 1275164636 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Code generator's going to be annoying.
< 1275164638 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty (Add x:xs) | x < 0 = ...
< 1275164644 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :| x == 0 = ...
< 1275164646 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :| x > 0 = ...
< 1275164655 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather
< 1275164658 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty (Add x:xs)
< 1275164661 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    | x < 0 = ...
< 1275164664 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    | x == 0 = ...
< 1275164667 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    | x > 0 = ...
< 1275164678 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might work best with State.
< 1275164689 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If x is a floating-point number all of those could be false ;-P
< 1275164691 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I tell you: have your own intermediate language
< 1275164695 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It isn't
< 1275164709 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Still need it for label generation.
< 1275164710 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay i got my channels swapped
< 1275164733 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yes, but you can do the important parts of machine code in some more functional part
< 1275164739 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then spit out asm and generate labels at the last stage
< 1275164772 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I'd do pretty (Add x:xs) = replicate x (if x < 0 then '-' else '+') : pretty xs
< 1275164779 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/: p/++ p/
< 1275164785 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Changing.
< 1275164921 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Transmission is a file sharing program.  When you run a torrent, its data will be made available to others by means of upload.  And of course, any content you share is your sole responsibility.
< 1275164921 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You probably knew this, so we won't tell you again."
< 1275164984 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: what's up is i'm reading stuff
< 1275164990 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or trying to
< 1275165100 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh come on, torrent client
< 1275165103 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do better than that <3
< 1275165511 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :found via Reddit: http://chart.apis.google.com/chart?cht=p&chd=t:85,15&chs=350x250&chdl=Resembles+Pacman|Does+not+resemble+Pacman&chp=.5&chco=ffff00,993365&chtt=Percentage+of+chart+which|resembles+Pacman
< 1275165537 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need a Usenet provider...
< 1275165542 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oooold
< 1275165550 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're talking... really, really old
< 1275165552 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: really?
< 1275165556 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1275165560 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like at least 4 years maybe?
< 1275165563 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm wondering if it was an independent recreation of something old
< 1275165566 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1275165577 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing there implied it hadn't just been made up a few seconds ago
< 1275165582 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still amusing, anyway
< 1275165583 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://img.moronail.net/img/1/2/12.jpg
< 1275165584 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.newfunnypictures.net/data/media/4/Percentage%20of%20chart%20which%20resembles%20Pac-man.jpg
< 1275165591 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3064/2310739468_397d808a35.jpg?v=0
< 1275165596 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sixtostart.com/files/xmas08/ARGs%20Christmas.032.png
< 1275165598 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should use that in a presentation someday
< 1275165604 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://chart.apis.google.com/chart?cht=p&chd=t:85,15&chs=350x250&chdl=Does+not+resemble+Pacman|Resembles+Pacman&chp=.5&chco=ffff00,993365&chtt=Percentage+of+chart+which|resembles+Pacman
< 1275165608 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Much better
< 1275165613 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another popular one is
< 1275165618 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.seomfg.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/pie-i-have-eaten-chart.jpg
< 1275165622 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pie i have eaten vs pie i have not yet eaten
< 1275165678 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also amusing in the discussion was an argument that someone hadn't misquoted Dijkstra properly
< 1275165764 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION installs Quod Libet
< 1275165791 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :leonard nemoy has a twitter account.
< 1275165793 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gosh
< 1275165808 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol @ pie chart
< 1275165984 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pgraycode.wordpress.com/2010/05/29/raptors/
< 1275166053 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I THINK YOU MEAN LEONARD NIMOY ALISE
< 1275166069 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoops.
< 1275166069 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::|
< 1275166076 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here comes the FURY
< 1275166089 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say you have dyslexia!
< 1275166093 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have seen a variant of that "percentage of chart which resembles Pac-man"
< 1275166105 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have been told that I have dylexia.
< 1275166113 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/dylexia/dyslexia/
< 1275166126 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This just goes to show that psychology in general is stupid
< 1275166231 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1275166297 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275166319 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The typo rather detracts from the statement, though)
< 1275166327 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He has written two autobiographies, I Am Not Spock (1975) and I Am Spock (1995).
< 1275166363 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: and here i was hoping the typo was accurate
< 1275166373 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, the typo just proves your shrink's point.
< 1275166386 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it doesn't
< 1275166408 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it does.
< 1275166415 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Typos are due to my fingers not hitting the key hard enough.
< 1275166418 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, punctuation is a good thing. Use it.
< 1275166422 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's better; 232 KiB/s.
< 1275166440 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I try to.
< 1275166451 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone else here watching Eurovision?
< 1275166453 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont need no stinking punctuation asshole
< 1275166472 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oerjans excepted.
< 1275166477 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yum; >300KiB/s.
< 1275166480 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1275166481 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :72|<ehird> ignore me, i'm full of bullshit
< 1275166487 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*>300 KiB/s.
< 1275166490 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch
< 1275166491 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1275166493 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1275166494 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4|<lament> i read paths as penis :(
< 1275166495 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1275166497 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :86|<ehird> Evolution is awful, awful, awful
< 1275166499 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1275166500 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :128|<Slereah> I can do everything a Turing machine can do, except love
< 1275166501 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1275166503 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :141|<songhead95> think of all the starving kids in china who don't have rotting sea life to eat
< 1275166514 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1275166516 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :55|<Dylan> kaelis: yes kaelis, but however will get the horses to wear knickers?
< 1275166521 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I have it on in the background.
< 1275166522 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1275166524 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :125|Note that quote number 124 is not actually true.
< 1275166530 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you stream eurovision online live? :P
< 1275166532 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 124
< 1275166533 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :124|<Warrigal> I cannot eat meat that isn't flat.
< 1275166536 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know
< 1275166538 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1275166539 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :42|<ais523> after all, what are DVD players for?
< 1275166545 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only TV channel I stream regularly is ITV
< 1275166546 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 123
< 1275166548 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :123|[Warrigal] `addquote <Dylan> hahaha, Lawlabee is running windows <Lawlabee> 'cuz it's pretty awesome.     [Lawlabee] Warrigal: :(
< 1275166553 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's broken on the actual TV here
< 1275166554 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: because you're too principled to tune in to it?
< 1275166567 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tend not to watch ITV at all because it's shit
< 1275166573 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: mostly, I agree
< 1275166578 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has like 1 good programme.
< 1275166584 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I tend to like the sort of vapid and pointless quiz shows that they put on sometimes
< 1275166585 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: go on...
< 1275166594 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: channel 4 tends to have enough quiz shows
< 1275166598 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<small>TV Burp is funny...</small>
< 1275166604 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: so do 1, and 2
< 1275166609 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, I will admit to occasionally watching TV Burp...
< 1275166610 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 used to, but it stopped years ago
< 1275166618 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah Five is pretty awful
< 1275166624 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just 5,000 rubbish american shows
< 1275166635 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm annoyed at Channel 5, it was my favourite channel when it first came out
< 1275166641 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but went more and more downhill as time went on
< 1275166641 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's called Five now :P
< 1275166646 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know
< 1275166650 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I refuse to acknowledge it
< 1275166665 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BBC One is officially called "BBC one" now, isn't it?
< 1275166667 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something of that sort
< 1275166672 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Try US TV.
< 1275166672 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to think of something to shout "FIGHT" about, but I can't.
< 1275166677 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, that's stupid
< 1275166678 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5,000 channels of rubbish American shows.
< 1275166680 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: No, thank you!
< 1275166685 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ah, no, it's changed from BBC1 to BBC One
< 1275166687 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since 1997
< 1275166690 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I could pick up many of the larger US TV channels from Canada
< 1275166696 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you're on proggit
< 1275166697 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but concluded I didn't have enough of a reason to
< 1275166703 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I noticed, comex told me
< 1275166703 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By "try" I mean "look at and then DESTROY your TV"
< 1275166705 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I like US TV, and I like Five. But which is better?
< 1275166710 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like BBC Two a lot.
< 1275166714 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's only one way to find out:
< 1275166718 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FIGHT!
< 1275166720 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You... *Like* this shit?
< 1275166722 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BBC Two + Channel 4 = pretty much all TV worth watching
< 1275166725 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: He's joking.
< 1275166727 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The CBC's okay, and that's about i
< 1275166729 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it
< 1275166738 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU FORGOT PBS LOL
< 1275166742 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Running joke on TV Burp
< 1275166745 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :534 KiB/s on a torrent
< 1275166748 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I was watching CBC News when I got bored of BBC World Service
< 1275166751 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :800 KiB/s
< 1275166753 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which Harry hill compares two things.
< 1275166753 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm convinced that most of US television is designed in order to enact war against the rest of the world.
< 1275166757 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am feeling happy in my special place now
< 1275166761 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*BBC World News, they renamed it
< 1275166763 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They then have people in costumes fight.
< 1275166771 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: does it not carry non-news programs any more?
< 1275166773 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They tend to be ridiculous.
< 1275166782 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: notice the top reddit comment :D
< 1275166784 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like a baby and a king prawn.
< 1275166789 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: it carries some programs which only tenuously fit into the definition of "news"
< 1275166813 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the one about Wolfram?
< 1275166817 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so basically you can only legally watch BBC television programs abroad by purchasing DVD sets?
< 1275166822 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't use iPlayer, they don't broadcast it...
< 1275166827 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't tell if that's a parody or an accurate quote
< 1275166833 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it?
< 1275166837 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Or BBCA.
< 1275166838 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF, someone reposted that again
< 1275166843 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why?
< 1275166845 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: not a repost, it's a first post
< 1275166845 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BBCA does not count
< 1275166849 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I'm impressed that an undergrad did the proof. That's very impressive."
< 1275166853 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: lol
< 1275166858 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1275166859 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is a corporation which has simply gotten a license to the BBC name and BBC shows.
< 1275166859 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Euclid didn't even get a high-school diploma" umm...
< 1275166862 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reddit missed it somehow
< 1275166866 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first time round
< 1275166871 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the TLDR
< 1275166877 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yep, I agree
< 1275166879 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why doesn't BBCA count?
< 1275166907 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: It's just another normal US TV channel, which *happens* to have a license to BBC shows.
< 1275166909 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm sorry how Wolfram has tarnished your name
< 1275166918 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think he has, really
< 1275166921 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone upon seeing alex smith in the future will go "oh, he's the guy who proved wolfram's kooky thing"
< 1275166926 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well... "A New Kind of Pseudoscience, now with more megalomania. Your taste buds cannot repel flavor of this magnitude."
< 1275166929 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a huge amount of vitriol for him and feeling sorry for me, on most of the fora about it
< 1275166932 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I love how even in praising the undegrad student's work, Wolfram takes credit for himself, even though he had little if anything to do with it:" ++
< 1275166943 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: didn't the $20k just go to living expenses?
< 1275166961 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: for about 3 years, it's served me well
< 1275166966 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*$25k
< 1275166973 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you don't seem to be living rather richly :P
< 1275166982 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't particularly want to live richly
< 1275166982 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, good point
< 1275167019 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where's the Wolfram thing?
< 1275167023 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/c99c3/the_prize_is_won_the_simplest_universal_turing/
< 1275167027 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nowadays I have a salary, but it's too low to trip any of the tax or loan repayment thresholds yet
< 1275167038 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet simultaneously it's more money than I can easily imagine
< 1275167038 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The problem with this proof is that it's incorrect. There was a long discussion regarding the correctness of the proof at http://cs.nyu.edu/pipermail/fom/2007-October/012156.html; Dr. Vaughn Pratt has stated that generating the Turing instructions as described is analogous to a linearly bound automaton."
< 1275167046 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, oh, please give me some text to rebut him with!
< 1275167048 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Euclid didn't even get a high-school diploma"
< 1275167065 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes xD
< 1275167092 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the high-rated comment?
< 1275167105 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: there was an initial high-profile complaint by him that was based on incorrect assumptions, which he later retracted; then an argument about something tangential that I lost badly; then some valid concerns about the definitions of the thing in the first place, an argument that never finished because the moderator went on holiday. There's a proof there, but nobody seems entirely certain what it is that I proved
< 1275167110 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/c99c3/the_prize_is_won_the_simplest_universal_turing/c0r088g
< 1275167123 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, indeed.
< 1275167125 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: shall I say that you said that or sth?
< 1275167140 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb
< 1275167142 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you like, I don't know if people will believe you...
< 1275167158 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1275167322 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rule 110 is TC, right?
< 1275167365 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: heh, that runs into some of the same definitional problems my proof does
< 1275167373 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: so to speak.  it has some similar issues to ais523's TM, but not as strong iiuc
< 1275167375 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with a definition in which the 2,3 machine is TC, rule 110 is also TC
< 1275167385 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: agreed
< 1275167386 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523's TM?
< 1275167394 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's Wolfram's TM
< 1275167401 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(rule 110's setup is periodic in each direction iirc)
< 1275167404 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only thing he did was discover it, and advertise beyond the limits of sanity
< 1275167405 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, that was you?
< 1275167407 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but at least he did discover it
< 1275167412 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yes
< 1275167422 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was funny seeing #esoteric disappointed that someone had solved it and it wasn't one of them
< 1275167427 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they took a bit of convincing to start with
< 1275167441 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like this cardset?  http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/PySol/screen/spider-tarot-cardset.png
< 1275167453 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to thank the channel for introducing the problem to me in the first place, it was in the topic
< 1275167464 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i noticed someone later proved that Rule 110 is P-complete, which means it definitely has _some_ computational content
< 1275167498 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's for predicting n generations ahead, not infinite computation)
< 1275167508 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P-complete's something like 6 or 7 computational classes lower than TC, isn't it?
< 1275167518 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(assuming you mean P as in P=NP, rather than PSPACE)
< 1275167519 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a complexity class
< 1275167523 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1275167531 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes the same P
< 1275167535 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO, all the complexity classes are lower than all the mainstream computational classes
< 1275167539 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and on the same large scale
< 1275167566 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can think of a general FSM, being the lowest useful computational class, as the highest complexity class
< 1275167579 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, is it possible for the Reimann Hypothesis to be undecidable?
< 1275167587 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1275167590 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not provably
< 1275167599 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, OK.
< 1275167599 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it was provably undecidable, then you've proved it can't be shown true or false
< 1275167612 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you prove it can't be shown false, then you've proved there are no counterexamples, as a counterexample would prove it false
< 1275167621 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus in such a case it must be true, which is a contradiction
< 1275167627 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course.
< 1275167653 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: btw you looked at tag stuff didn't you?  iiuc the essential part of the P-complete proof was to show you could simulate turing machines in tag systems more efficiently than using unary (i think it was quadratic size)
< 1275167654 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if it can be unprovably undecidable
< 1275167673 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: not really, I used the pre-existing result that cyclic tag was TC, but that was about it
< 1275167686 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you prove that its undecidability is undecidable?
< 1275167699 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well then it might apply to that TM too, perhaps
< 1275167702 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I'm trying to figure out what undecidable undecidability would even mean
< 1275167736 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The same as undecidability of anything.
< 1275167760 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :undecidable
< 1275167766 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, actually.
< 1275167767 0 :undecidable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, need this in my tab-complete to make typing easier...
< 1275167787 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it runs into the same problems as undecidability.
< 1275167788 0 :undecidable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :undecidable: either an assumption that something's true, or that it's false, leads to no contradiction
< 1275167793 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least for the RH.
< 1275167824 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since a counterexample would prove its undecidability to also be decidable.
< 1275167837 0 :undecidable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if it's undecidable that something's undecidable, then assuming that something's true or false leads to no contradiction; and assuming that it can't be safely assumed both true and false also leads to no contradiction
< 1275167842 0 :undecidable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and as far as I can tell, that's a contradiction
< 1275167842 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's unprovable all the way doen.
< 1275167844 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :undecidable: FSM is regular languages isn't it?  that's one of the _lowest_ useful complexity classes, not the highest
< 1275167859 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flying Spaghetti Monster?
< 1275167865 0 :undecidable!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ais523
< 1275167872 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1275167882 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm, I was thinking in terms of an FSM which scaled to the problem
< 1275167895 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which leads to definitional problems along the lines of http://esolangs.org/wiki/Formula
< 1275167902 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, for that matter, confusion with an LBA
< 1275167987 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't sound very well-defined, no
< 1275168000 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: finite state machine, i thought
< 1275168007 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do that sort of thing all the time...
< 1275168036 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X is P complete means X is in P and any problem in P can be reduced to X with reduction what?
< 1275168050 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: logspace-reduction, mostly
< 1275168076 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the difference between a FSM and a FSA?
< 1275168085 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i've recently heard there's an even weaker reduction they sometimes use
< 1275168092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or is that "an"?, after all it is pronounced as the letters...)
< 1275168093 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One's an M and the other's an A
< 1275168097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well duh
< 1275168102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you know what I mean
< 1275168105 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(logtime something, i'm not sure what it is)
< 1275168119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finite state automaton and finite state machine
< 1275168123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are they the same thing?
< 1275168129 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/heard/read/
< 1275168140 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's obvious that the lowest computational class is something like a bric.
< 1275168151 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/c\./ckz./
< 1275168165 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn, I made a typo in that too.
< 1275168184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, maybe you can give an useful answer there, you tend to be able
< 1275168184 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/z//
< 1275168198 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: IIRC they're the same
< 1275168203 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or same enough that it makes no difference
< 1275168237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah
< 1275168238 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FSM is regulars yes
< 1275168251 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: logspace is my favorite complexity class, i think, despite being rather low
< 1275168271 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So all of our computers are basically glorified regex parsers?
< 1275168284 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You realize that this is the kind of thing that can be solved by looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FSM and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FSA
< 1275168298 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just recently found the proof you can do most arithmetic in it (although the proof was strengthened even further to some even weaker class)
< 1275168329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, that would require opening a browser
< 1275168332 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's surprisingly subtle how to do division
< 1275168335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already had irc client open
< 1275168361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :logically asking on irc is thus better. Plus it gives some fun answers along the way
< 1275168362 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: clearly you could write a regex containing every possible internal state of the computer as alternatives
< 1275168365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks to you Deewiant ;P
< 1275168371 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that that would be particularly sensible
< 1275168378 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :addition sounds easy
< 1275168379 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I consider opening a browser less trouble than asking on IRC
< 1275168387 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: for me it's the other way round
< 1275168392 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know :-P
< 1275168397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to agree with ais523 here
< 1275168397 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yes that's the easiest one.  multiplying _two_ numbers is also easy.
< 1275168398 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what's logspace
< 1275168402 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel disappointed when I have to get the Web involved, especially a site I've never visited
< 1275168412 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're browser-challenged, I'll spoil it for you: FSM = FSA
< 1275168416 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: you get an amount of memory to do your calculation proportional to the logarithm of the size of the input
< 1275168421 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: O(log n) workspace use
< 1275168423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw can you tell us about that esolang thing at uni you ran across
< 1275168429 0 :uoryfon!~warriphon@c-98-209-136-197.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275168430 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you didn't want to ask about some days ago
< 1275168430 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aka L
< 1275168432 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1275168432 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, yes
< 1275168439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, or is it still secret?
< 1275168448 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has bothered me for a long time that I don't understand O notation.
< 1275168453 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, is ais523's definition equivalent?
< 1275168471 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: you still don't you mean?
< 1275168475 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: multiplying _n_ numbers was a key ingredient in the proof i found
< 1275168476 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, in Sutherland's event logic, there are six basic circuits, plus wires and forking wires, that describe a mathematically useful subset of asynchronous circuits
< 1275168487 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Yes.
< 1275168487 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in recent research, we found that three of them were not necessary
< 1275168519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah interesting. Not necessary in the same sense as "you can do with only nand, but it is quite a pain to do that"?
< 1275168528 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: pretty much
< 1275168531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1275168531 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: yes
< 1275168534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, carry on
< 1275168538 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we're trying to work out if one of the remaining five circuits, which seems rather complex, is expressible in terms of the other four
< 1275168541 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've proved it's impossible
< 1275168557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh cool
< 1275168583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, can it be expressed in terms of one of the ones you proved not required? to get another "minimal" subset?
< 1275168592 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O(g(n)) is the set of function f for which there are n_0 >= 0 and a > 0 such that f(n) <= a * g(n) when n >= n_0, so f(n) is in O(g(n)) means that from some point on (n_0) f(n) is smaller than some multiple of g(n) (which has to be the same for all n)
< 1275168595 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably, but they're even more complicated
< 1275168597 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back
< 1275168602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah okay
< 1275168614 0 :uoryfon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1275168644 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: posted what you said
< 1275168668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and how does this tie into esolangs?
< 1275168688 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1275168710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh and "Sutherland event logic" seems to not give many useful google results for me
< 1275168711 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: does that make any sense? i tried to use letters with no well-known meanings.
< 1275168712 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> if it was provably undecidable, then you've proved it can't be shown true or false
< 1275168717 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not what undecidable means
< 1275168718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh the grammar
< 1275168726 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :undecidable = no algorithm can decide
< 1275168731 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :independent = cannot be proved true or false from axioms
< 1275168732 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no?
< 1275168768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, the former implies the latter though.
< 1275168773 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also ais523 what about RE
< 1275168784 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that lower than a turing machin?
< 1275168786 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :re-complete
< 1275168794 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it contains the halting problem
< 1275168795 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance
< 1275168809 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :R = TM
< 1275168810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, afaik RE is less capable than an UTC
< 1275168814 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UTM*
< 1275168818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird typo
< 1275168819 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :R = RE intersect co-RE
< 1275168822 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no
< 1275168825 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :R is a UTM
< 1275168837 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RE and co-RE are strictly bigger
< 1275168843 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RE Being?
< 1275168848 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RE is the set of languages that are accepted by turing machines; this includes the language of turing machines that halt
< 1275168850 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Sutherland event logic is rather esolangish in its own right
< 1275168853 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :recursively enumerable
< 1275168858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm starting to wonder that too. Thought RE was the regular languages
< 1275168869 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well true TMs will "run" RE
< 1275168871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, okay so what do you abbrev regular languages to?
< 1275168873 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but R is all the problems they can SOLVE
< 1275168876 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "regular"
< 1275168884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, seen RE used for it, pretty sure
< 1275168891 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i doubt it
< 1275168906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might not have been a mathematician of course
< 1275168906 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In computational complexity theory, R is the class of decision problems solvable by a Turing machine, which is the set of all recursive languages. R is often identified with the class of 'effectively computable' functions (the Church-Turing thesis).
< 1275168909 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i don't ^
< 1275168918 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :proof by wikipedia
< 1275168934 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the margin is too narrow to contain my refutation of your proof
< 1275168945 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :R is the set of languages that are accepted by turing machines that always halt
< 1275168952 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I have a truly marvellous proof of this, but I'm sure you can all work it out."
< 1275168961 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: well yeah i'm talking in terms of decision problems
< 1275168966 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't halt you haven't solved a decision problem
< 1275168968 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q.E.D.
< 1275168985 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: i doubt AnMaster has seen RE used for regulars
< 1275168995 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Church-Turing thesis is ridiculous, I've seen about 20 different definitions of it, ranging from obviously true to clearly a matter of philosophy to right outside the scope of mathematics
< 1275168998 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't doubt "<alise> but R is all the problems they can SOLVE"
< 1275169002 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1275169009 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's as true as it can be
< 1275169071 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1275169083 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: my definition of the church-turing thesis: Imagine a universe with the same physics as our own, but infinitely large. Imagine that this universe contains machines with actual physical infinite tapes. The Church-Turing thesis states that any computation done in this universe can be done by a universal Turing machine.
< 1275169097 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even that's a bit vague
< 1275169157 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275169172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what is the original definition of it?
< 1275169183 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know
< 1275169192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it might be worth checking that
< 1275169209 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: just "real-world computation can be done with the lambda-calculus"
< 1275169215 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is hopelessly vague
< 1275169219 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch
< 1275169220 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, what a rubbish .nfo
< 1275169229 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't contain any text at all apart from the filled-in fields
< 1275169231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nfo?
< 1275169248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that something used by MS system info thingy?
< 1275169249 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what the scene uses to give information about a release and diss other groups and shit
< 1275169251 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1275169254 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and talk about how great they are for doing it
< 1275169283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"On Microsoft Windows, the NFO filename extension is associated with a Microsoft software tool called System Information."
< 1275169287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :says wikipedia
< 1275169290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1275169303 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, sceners came first
< 1275169305 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're just text files
< 1275169307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true
< 1275169337 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scene? Somehow, I don't think you're talking about the demoscene
< 1275169346 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The demoscene is an offshoot of the scene.
< 1275169356 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Cracked software always included a masturbatory demo at the start.)
< 1275169360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Wikipedia-nfo.png <-- wikipedia is really self centered eh?
< 1275169366 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Then they got so extravagant that they didn't need software accompanying them.)
< 1275169371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the example of an nfo file
< 1275169374 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, if some physical constants happened to be uncomputable by a turing machine, but we could approximate them arbitrarily far with some sort of physical measurements, would you consider the church-turing to be wrong?
< 1275169377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the article about nfo files
< 1275169378 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*proven wrong
< 1275169379 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yeah wikipedia never talk about anything else in their examples
< 1275169389 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: well... abstract computation
< 1275169389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, right
< 1275169397 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. computation that only uses some finitely specifiable input
< 1275169402 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... anything that just takes a natural basically
< 1275169411 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: i'm not finding a counterexample to yours, i'm asking a question
< 1275169414 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess if it's quantum...
< 1275169420 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: then no, because it takes non-natural input
< 1275169421 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then
< 1275169424 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about quantum computers
< 1275169427 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can they take non-natural input?
< 1275169439 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :takes non-natural input?
< 1275169464 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically we have a physical machine that outputs a number no turing machine can
< 1275169465 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :natural number
< 1275169471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what exactly is abstract computation then
< 1275169473 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finitely-specifiable input = finite list of naturals = natural
< 1275169474 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that well defined?
< 1275169480 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: ah.
< 1275169484 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you're not allowed IO devices like that
< 1275169500 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :natural in, natural out, nothing inbetween
< 1275169506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I can imagine you could measure some constants using the system clock and measuring delay in yourself
< 1275169507 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i'm defining it as we go right now!
< 1275169512 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no system clock
< 1275169515 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :abstract, remember
< 1275169525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes define abstract
< 1275169531 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: the guy whose book i was reading (just first chapter had philosophy :P) thought this would *not* be a counterexample, and i'd agree
< 1275169536 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: agreed
< 1275169546 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well... alternatively, here's a very precise, very strong version of the CT thesis:
< 1275169561 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Super-Turing computation is impossible in every consistent universe.
< 1275169574 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., Super-Turing computation is inherently inconsistent.
< 1275169581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, if it has no clock and is async you can use it to measure delay due to temperature differences in different parts of the circuit if built the right way I think
< 1275169623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least you could measure them in terms of other ones
< 1275169629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and use it as a crude clock
< 1275169637 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of unknown period)
< 1275169645 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: btw, how mad am I for changing my own nick just so I could use it to tab-complete a word?
< 1275169659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, where?
< 1275169661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on here?
< 1275169665 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1275169667 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/nick undecidable
< 1275169669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, when?
< 1275169669 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :earlier
< 1275169675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting idea
< 1275169706 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MizardX,
< 1275169713 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah, damn enter key.
< 1275169716 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes
< 1275169717 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1275169721 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<AnMaster> alise, if it has no clock and is async you can use it to measure delay due to temperature differences in different parts of the circuit if built the right way I think
< 1275169727 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you appear to misunderstand the word "abstract"
< 1275169751 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> Super-Turing computation is impossible in every consistent universe.
< 1275169751 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> i.e., Super-Turing computation is inherently inconsistent.
< 1275169753 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if it has no clock and /isn't/ async?
< 1275169754 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I think I believe this
< 1275169785 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night
< 1275169796 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is SuperTuring computation.
< 1275169808 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I want that made into a comiv.
< 1275169856 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are there CTRL+H characters around the "<" "alise" ">"
< 1275169889 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Mistake.
< 1275169892 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XChat copied the colours.
< 1275169898 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Computation stronger than a UTM.
< 1275169903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> you appear to misunderstand the word "abstract" <-- that is because you haven't defined it in an useful way
< 1275169908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and:
< 1275169910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> <alise> Super-Turing computation is impossible in every consistent universe.
< 1275169910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> <alise> i.e., Super-Turing computation is inherently inconsistent.
< 1275169915 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems pretty useless
< 1275169925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't prove it, it just defines it
< 1275169933 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: How does that even work?
< 1275169947 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Calculates everything in constant time?
< 1275169956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, banana scheme for example
< 1275169958 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No?
< 1275169958 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of things in esolang wiki are super Turing, and uncomputable
< 1275169959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(iirc)
< 1275169966 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, a Turing-machine oracle.
< 1275169974 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, solving the halting problem.
< 1275169989 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So TwoDucks isn't super-Turing?
< 1275170012 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can decide a statement of the form (forall n : exists m : P(n,m)) where the variables range over natural numbers
< 1275170017 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(A super-Turing machine)
< 1275170022 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, at least, one with a TM oracle
< 1275170042 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...What is P?
< 1275170045 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, ...
< 1275170047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"TwoDucks is an esoteric programming language by User:Zzo38 which allows you to go back in time and change things. It is uncomputable on a Turing machine; it even allows you to solve the halting problem. "
< 1275170053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/TwoDucks
< 1275170068 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK.
< 1275170079 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hyper Set Language is certainly inconsistent, since a code to implement Russell paradox can be written with it
< 1275170079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that claim is true then it seems pretty certain it is superturing
< 1275170125 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if super-Turing inconsistency is true, FTL travel is impossible?
< 1275170164 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the relation?
< 1275170169 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275170178 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FTL travel, according to relativity and stuff, allows sending information back in time.
< 1275170178 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FTL travel implies violation of causality.
< 1275170192 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not=({0}!(0.0))|(0.1); element_of={[<#]&>#;not/(not/@)}; Russell={[0.#;1.0]/(element_of/(#.#))}\*;
< 1275170196 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, so that's why.
< 1275170196 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can violate causality, you can build a TwoDucks interpreter.
< 1275170199 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QED.
< 1275170203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can?
< 1275170219 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, what about storage space
< 1275170226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would need infinite of that as well
< 1275170241 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, maybe.
< 1275170249 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I can tell, quantum computing with a wormhole gate (i.e. it outputs a value, then later takes that value as input) is perfectly consistent.
< 1275170269 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There can still be quantum entanglements which can affect things, however it cannot be used for anything that can be received information it does still has to be the limited by speed of light
< 1275170282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, hm now you made me imagine implementing a nand gate or such with a wormhole
< 1275170282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1275170296 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would the wormhole be useful?
< 1275170317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, no clue
< 1275170323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, I don't know enough physics
< 1275170328 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just sounds like a cool idea
< 1275170334 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods.
< 1275170334 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, can you implemented NAND gates by wormholes?
< 1275170345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see what I said above
< 1275170351 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would require a lot of energy to create wormholes anyways, if it can possibly work
< 1275170357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I'm sure Hollywood could :P
< 1275170671 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@77.49.8.198.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275170693 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1275170704 0 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-240-176.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275170715 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is it with people joining and then leaving immediately,
< 1275170743 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know
< 1275170759 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps testing purposes?
< 1275170783 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun fact: mass noun is a mass noun.
< 1275170790 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I destroyed all the mass noun in the dictionary."
< 1275170812 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What?
< 1275170819 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It clearly isn't.
< 1275170841 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why did you do that?
< 1275170843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, "all the mass nouns"
< 1275170846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think
< 1275170848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure
< 1275170852 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1275170858 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is correct.
< 1275170875 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it is a mass noun!
< 1275170881 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See!
< 1275170887 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mass noun are all mass noun; and mass noun is a mass noun.
< 1275170890 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You said "a mass noun"!
< 1275170899 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes! That is valid!
< 1275170903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it is a mass noun you couldn't say "a mass noun"
< 1275170906 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not for mass nouns!
< 1275170908 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...hmm good point
< 1275170910 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A water".
< 1275170915 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the one where "Xs" is invalid because it's just "X"
< 1275170917 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. sheep
< 1275170918 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It makes no sense!
< 1275170919 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"a sheep" is still valid
< 1275170934 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just when the plural and the singular are the same.
< 1275170943 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like fish. Or deer.
< 1275170943 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No fancy name? Aww.
< 1275170946 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that isn't the case for "mass noun" either
< 1275170952 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There may well be one.
< 1275170964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it is "mass nouns" in plural
< 1275170992 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is stuff on Wikipedia about "Mass noun" I checked
< 1275171117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I heard that in some dialects in UK "sheep" does have a plural form different from the singular form
< 1275171129 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what is a Fragment anyway?
< 1275171132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or it might have been archaic, or dialectal _and_ archaic
< 1275171136 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: sheeple!
< 1275171141 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wake up sheeple!
< 1275171146 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sheep shoop shippen
< 1275171153 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, sounds like something you use to bind paper together ;P
< 1275171172 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pulseaudio does not like two sounds playing at once lol
< 1275171172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well looks like it
< 1275171174 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sounds like it
< 1275171176 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remind me to unpack my mac asap
< 1275171178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, works for me
< 1275171187 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: congrats you have the perfect soundcard + configuration
< 1275171189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, both on laptop and desktop
< 1275171189 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lucky you
< 1275171194 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: how's that latency like
< 1275171198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, my laptop has intel hd audio
< 1275171198 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only joking!
< 1275171203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it works there
< 1275171203 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pulseaudio's lag isn't called latency
< 1275171208 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's called the waiting room
< 1275171217 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can have a nice sit down and a cup of tea while it's going
< 1275171220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, as for the latency, nothing noticeable
< 1275171226 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today I will play pinball game
< 1275171237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so I think you must be unlucky
< 1275171248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, of course on my desktop I _do_ have the perfect sound card
< 1275171263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well almost
< 1275171266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sb live
< 1275171273 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pulseaudio has the flaw of not actually doing anything useful
< 1275171279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there I don't use pulseaudio anyway
< 1275171280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use jack
< 1275171308 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I had the patience to set it all up I'd use OSSv4.
< 1275171309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, anyway on my laptop with intel hd audio, playing multiple sounds at once with pulseaudio works
< 1275171314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that I tend to do it often
< 1275171316 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it works
< 1275171357 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION 's audio pauses for a few seconds
< 1275171358 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lovely
< 1275171364 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remind me not to scroll on a page with flash animations while using pulseaudio
< 1275171380 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly it is a highly obnoxious flash ad that would play audio if i let it
< 1275171385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what sort of shitty cpu?
< 1275171396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, intel atom?
< 1275171405 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, actually, amd athlon 64 x2
< 1275171414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1275171417 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of the three things I've tried (alsa, alsa + dmix, pulseaudio) pulseaudio works the best for me (but still not optimally)
< 1275171421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that is dual core isn't it?
< 1275171425 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so quite strange
< 1275171428 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: but pulseaudio /goes/ /through/ /alsa/...
< 1275171429 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes.
< 1275171436 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's because linux is shit :D
< 1275171450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, actually, I use linux and it doesn't happen for me
< 1275171450 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I don't really know/care about how it works, just saying that it does
< 1275171451 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything was just fine until i plugged in speakers!
< 1275171462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so I would suggest it is not the fault of linux
< 1275171468 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How good are you flipperless pinball game?
< 1275171475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, this is on ubuntu jaunty
< 1275171477 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it is, linux's fault is having unpredictable problems between perfectly fine hardware
< 1275171483 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it works, you're lucky! who the fuck knows why!
< 1275171490 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not, sorry!
< 1275171495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so does mac. It only works on a few products
< 1275171500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apple ones
< 1275171502 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but at least you know what to buy.
< 1275171505 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even more limited than linux
< 1275171511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, okay for linux, buy IBM thinkpads
< 1275171519 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Oh yeah this hardware works GREAT with linux" [buys it] "Actually, no it doesn't."
< 1275171529 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: desktop?
< 1275171529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, oh and with recent kernels the wlan issues went away
< 1275171532 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't say "make your own"
< 1275171537 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only issue I have with pulseaudio is that mplayer gets stuck if I pause it and then resume; I have to seek a bit (typically multiple times) to get it to unpause
< 1275171539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, why not
< 1275171541 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :system76 maybe
< 1275171542 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only ships to US
< 1275171545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it works perfectly
< 1275171555 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because Everyone Else Has Better Things To Do
< 1275171566 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like trying to get linux to work :D
< 1275171567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it takes, like, an hour once the components arrived
< 1275171571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at most
< 1275171579 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just tell my mother that, brb
< 1275171582 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, also I know someone with a perfect linux desktop apart from sound level
< 1275171590 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, no I won't, because she'd laugh.
< 1275171594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it has 16 cores.
< 1275171606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xenon i7 cpus
< 1275171618 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's nice, how much money do they have?
< 1275171625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[anmaster@ein ~]$ free -m
< 1275171625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :             total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached
< 1275171625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mem:          8953       2439       6514          0          0       1438
< 1275171628 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even I don't consider buying multiple xenons.
< 1275171632 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, only 8 GiB?
< 1275171636 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9
< 1275171641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9 indeed
< 1275171656 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: are you counting hyperthreading "cores" there?
< 1275171663 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly they're close to being extra cores, but still
< 1275171663 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not fully
< 1275171665 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, let me check a second.
< 1275171670 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably
< 1275171683 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, almost certainly.
< 1275171687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably yes
< 1275171691 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 cpus is just two xenons, then
< 1275171697 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what, $2,000 for the cpus.
< 1275171697 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1275171700 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or abouts.
< 1275171720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it is quad cores. Each with two hyperthreads
< 1275171726 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :model name	: Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU           E5520  @ 2.27GHz
< 1275171733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could look that up on intel.com
< 1275171735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you care
< 1275171746 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so one of the low end ones then :-)
< 1275171754 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact the lowest cpu speed you can get in a Nehalem
< 1275171760 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1275171764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, probably, it can compile the linux kernel in about 1 minute still
< 1275171765 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least a Xenon/i7
< 1275171768 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nehalem is a nice name for them, why don't people call them Nehalem more
< 1275171770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is quite impressive
< 1275171775 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did they introduce i3/i5, before you could say Nehalem to mean i7/Xenon
< 1275171777 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it was nice
< 1275171780 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if someone has 100 people on their friends list on fcebook and each person has on average 100 people on their list as well, that's 10000 people in your extended network
< 1275171782 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a lot
< 1275171787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ^
< 1275171797 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i would say only up to 60% of those are unique
< 1275171800 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are Xenons also Nehalems?
< 1275171800 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: and if each one of those has 100 friends, your totally-extended network is infinitely big
< 1275171801 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, also it is a server board. Has IMPI and stuff
< 1275171804 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in fact it's more like 6000
< 1275171804 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: yes.
< 1275171809 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: *Xeon, oops.
< 1275171810 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, Xeon
< 1275171819 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Happiness is...
< 1275171822 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Nehalem Xeon = i7 + multi-CPU support + ECC support + $500 or more extra
< 1275171824 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, anyway I bet your system can't compile the linux kernel in 1 minute and 2 seconds.
< 1275171830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the stats I saw for that system
< 1275171833 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: ...excrement
< 1275171836 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: yes, but we're talking about a real population, so it's going to start duplicating real quick
< 1275171842 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just thought the Xeons had a separate arch
< 1275171849 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1275171850 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :164|<DoctorDog> I am an inherently pornographic being.
< 1275171853 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1275171854 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :92|<oklopol> if a girl is that cute, i don't care how many penises she has
< 1275171856 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: nope, never had
< 1275171857 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1275171859 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :52|<ehird> Apple = Windows.
< 1275171865 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1275171867 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :59|<Dylan> actually, I pretended to be a hobo to get directions
< 1275171871 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, explain.
< 1275171876 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unquote
< 1275171877 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1275171879 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I've even forgotten.
< 1275171880 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1275171881 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :118|<apollo> Actually, he still looks like he'd rather eat her than have sex with her.
< 1275171885 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: IT WILL STAY NESTED FOREVER HAHAHAHAHAHA
< 1275171891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, also it seems to have 8 MB L2 cache per core?
< 1275171896 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yeah
< 1275171900 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait no
< 1275171903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure about L3
< 1275171905 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have 512KiB of L2 per core
< 1275171907 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 8MiB L3
< 1275171908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1275171910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1275171914 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(core = 2 hyperthreads here)
< 1275171922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit hard to tell from /proc/cpuinfo
< 1275171930 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how do I get an account
< 1275171933 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait
< 1275171938 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i built bsmntbombdood an almost-as-good system
< 1275171942 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well only one cpu, but more ram
< 1275171945 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and an ssd
< 1275171945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, on there? You don't. You have to be a friend of this guy.
< 1275171948 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think /proc/cpuinfo has the info in that detail
< 1275171955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, indeed
< 1275171955 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'll just ask bsmntbombdood to do my compilations and shit :P
< 1275171965 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STOP HAVING BETTER COMPUTERS THAN ME
< 1275171976 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder.... if you have a set of N vertices, and the set of all connected graphs on them, then what is the statistical distribution of the value of percentage of duplication of second- and third-friends, sampled across all graphs and all vertices
< 1275171980 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just lists the cache a core has access to, but doesn't explain how it's shared between others
< 1275171983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I use this to do huge panorama stitching that swap trashes all my computers
< 1275171994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it takes ages to scp the files. transatlantic
< 1275172005 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...so how do I become a friend with this guy, what kind of personality does he have.
< 1275172032 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, Dettol have introduced a No-Touch Hand Wash System.
< 1275172034 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, a personality like mine
< 1275172040 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Never touch a germy soap pump again"
< 1275172047 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What will the immune systems of our next generation be like?!
< 1275172051 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will they even HAVE any?!
< 1275172056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, we have the same kind of view on user interface and such
< 1275172063 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well I'm not going that far, sorry.
< 1275172066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1275172109 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, I'll just bask in the knowledge that I came up with all the components to a proven-really-fast system without ever having assembled a computer before or even coming up with a full list of parts.
< 1275172112 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly, i am a natural.
< 1275172157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you didn't assemble it
< 1275172165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that is the important bit
< 1275172166 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no... but that /is/ the easy part.
< 1275172174 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, all the components worked perfectly.
< 1275172176 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(together)
< 1275172178 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and with bsd/linux
< 1275172179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ever messed with thermal paste?
< 1275172183 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is _not_ the easy part
< 1275172184 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends on how many components you have and how small your case is ;-P
< 1275172186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the cable routing
< 1275172187 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: used the heat sink it came with :p
< 1275172189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is a hell
< 1275172192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least in my case
< 1275172193 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although he's replacing it iirc
< 1275172200 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :once I scraped thermal paste off a cpu
< 1275172200 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3
< 1275172202 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it still ran
< 1275172202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :power going everywhere
< 1275172206 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I didn't realise, I was young)
< 1275172220 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do what I do and ignore cable routing: just find the first working solution
< 1275172223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, where/when was this?
< 1275172232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yes and even that is tricky in my case
< 1275172239 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on my computer... I was young, as I said.
< 1275172240 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, same here
< 1275172243 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is why I do that ;-P
< 1275172249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it is a tower but not an excessively large one
< 1275172249 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't Dan's Data find out toothpaste worked well for a time as a thermal paste?
< 1275172257 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like a day or so
< 1275172272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, at least I only have the PATA cd nowdays, no PATA harddrive
< 1275172284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those cables are a hell
< 1275172291 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No floppy drive? :-/
< 1275172316 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well, not any more, it made the computer refuse to boot when plugged in one day
< 1275172323 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1275172364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it is still in the case since I couldn't find the piece to fill the hole at the front
< 1275172373 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1275172386 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's more attractive anyway
< 1275172396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I guess it does look nice indeed
< 1275172576 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to live on a mountain of computers
< 1275172592 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, the hole is ventilation!
< 1275172597 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to have one very good computer.
< 1275172598 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're not SUPPOSED to put floppy drives there!
< 1275172606 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: how much money do you have?
< 1275172620 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC Edinburgh University has a supercomputer somewhere.
< 1275172625 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps I can steal it.
< 1275172626 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT MANY PEOPLE KNOW THIS but I came up with a parts list of an top-of-the-line computer costing $1,600...
< 1275172632 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO!
< 1275172634 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I NEED MY PROFIT!
< 1275172641 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'(
< 1275172648 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, do tell.
< 1275172691 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :came up with in what sense
< 1275172694 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't understand
< 1275172698 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just bsmntbombdood's rig... rubbish graphics card but an i7 CPU, 12 GiB of DDR3 RAM, 80 GiB SSD + 1 or 2 TB disk
< 1275172715 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, i have an i7 with ddr2 ram...
< 1275172720 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Not much at all I just found parts that like each other on newegg to maximise cost/performance ratio :P
< 1275172726 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: har har har -- (you are joking right)
< 1275172743 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I also get access to Ulster University's computer place in a few weeks.
< 1275172749 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just pointing out the redundancy
< 1275172751 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps I can steal something from there.
< 1275172762 0 :Halph!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275172764 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: yeah but most people won't know ... then again i guess they won't know i7 either
< 1275172786 0 :tombom_!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275172840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, oh that system I mentioned, not a rubbish GPU
< 1275172840 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's a cpu
< 1275172858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, 2 x GeForce GTS 250
< 1275172860 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't understand this
< 1275172863 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1275172867 0 :Halph!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :coppro
< 1275172880 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: GTS is not rubbish but it's not "much"
< 1275172895 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you need halph with your feces, pooppy?
< 1275172901 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1275172905 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love you oklopol. marry me
< 1275172912 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro!
< 1275172914 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a female name and the pronoun is she so you know it's acceptable
< 1275172916 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1275172916 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: *pooppy
< 1275172919 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1275172924 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everyone's favourite Turing machine.
< 1275172926 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe we should do it
< 1275172930 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really
< 1275172934 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tonight
< 1275172951 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: wat :P
< 1275172952 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: okay
< 1275172954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, 2 x of them isn't too bad for GPU computation
< 1275172959 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: okay so i need a plane ticket, where should i get it to
< 1275172967 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turku
< 1275172969 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well 2 of them is good, yes.
< 1275172970 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Remember, he said he was Turing-complete?
< 1275172973 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not leaving the house
< 1275172975 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: just checking you guys have an airport right
< 1275172977 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: oh yeah
< 1275172983 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, we have an airport
< 1275172983 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover!
< 1275172984 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: um i think you can get married over the internet nowadays
< 1275172985 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably
< 1275172990 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: your job is to find out
< 1275173002 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you need parental permission to get married if you're 14? what if it's not your native country the marriage will be in
< 1275173003 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the power vested in me you are married.
< 1275173006 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and can i move in with you?
< 1275173010 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: by whom
< 1275173015 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :himself, I presume
< 1275173016 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know.
< 1275173026 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess you can move in the room we're not using that much
< 1275173033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, also lets see how long stuff takes on this...
< 1275173039 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but keep to yourself
< 1275173046 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just want a sex wife
< 1275173057 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: certainly, can i use your internet connection
< 1275173060 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1275173069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wish there was a batch hugin stitcher command that didn't require X
< 1275173071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is silly
< 1275173078 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shut up AnMaster me and oklopol are having personal talk
< 1275173080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X forwarding the window is slowing things down
< 1275173087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ?
< 1275173095 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: we're getting MARRIED!
< 1275173107 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm the priest!
< 1275173109 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_-
< 1275173145 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: just because you disapprove of our quasi-homosexual, underage coupling
< 1275173149 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't mean you have to be NASTY about it
< 1275173177 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: what does your nick mean
< 1275173181 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AARGH neural networks are annoying.
< 1275173200 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Especially nasty to be so nasty about it so soon before LGBT Pride Month.
< 1275173201 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: It means that I am the phantom of a hoover.
< 1275173211 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay
< 1275173212 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What were you expecting?
< 1275173224 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the other interpretation, hoover that targets phantoms
< 1275173224 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(US-only, is so by decree of President Obama)
< 1275173243 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O MY GOD
< 1275173255 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OBAMA IS A GAY MUSLIM KENYAN COMMUNIST.
< 1275173273 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, the nasty bit is about underage
< 1275173276 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a hoover of phantoms would be useful for the ghostbusters
< 1275173288 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or indeed Luigi.
< 1275173295 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gay Muslim Kenyan American Unamerican Hawai'ian Communist.
< 1275173305 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: In all seriousness, I am pretty sure my (serious) consent to something is worth more than an average 16 year old's
< 1275173308 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(age of consent in UK)
< 1275173316 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore, respect my goddamn marriage
< 1275173316 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I would like to make it clear that my name has nothing to do with the aforementioned plumber's)
< 1275173350 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1275173368 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a good point, actually.
< 1275173384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :137% CPU
< 1275173388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf
< 1275173412 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't trust the 16-year-olds I meet to give consent to do something very inane which I can't think of right now.
< 1275173436 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: multicore
< 1275173462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, a single thread
< 1275173470 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck, I'd say my consent -- if I give it after at least a bit of thinking -- is probably worth at least as much as the average 18 year old's. Even if it's slightly less, which I doubt, remember that all the below-average 18 year olds are allowed to consent too...
< 1275173473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, not aggregated over several threads
< 1275173475 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Counting in-kernel time.
< 1275173485 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which can easily be on multiple CPUs.
< 1275173487 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, you can't make the age of consent "Anyone who's intelligent and informed enough to consent can consent."
< 1275173490 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Although the NHS probably disagrees.
< 1275173490 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16-yo's know what they're doing
< 1275173491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm maybe
< 1275173495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, that could explain it
< 1275173497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1275173498 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because that's ... a fuckpile of a legal mess.
< 1275173498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, *
< 1275173507 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I could REARRANGE SOMEONE'S VAGINA.
< 1275173512 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then FAIL TO COMMUNICATE WITH IT
< 1275173513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STOP MESSING UP MY TAB COMPLETE (last spoken first)
< 1275173514 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also quite possible for Linux to be swapping CPUs on that process that much. :P
< 1275173518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION glares at both pikhq and Phantom_Hoover
< 1275173523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two chars + tab
< 1275173528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be enough ;P
< 1275173539 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that sounds like a terrible idea)
< 1275173552 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: That is extremely quicky.
< 1275173563 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/quicky/squicky/
< 1275173573 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Not communicating? ewwwww
< 1275173575 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1275173582 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it just me, or was Bell Labs totally awesome?
< 1275173587 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't get why people think kids can't decide stuff for themselves, any 15-yo can easily live by themselves, and unless seriously retarded, of course they fucking know what it means to get married or have sex
< 1275173591 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They did almost everything except telephones
< 1275173603 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unix... background radiation of the universe...
< 1275173611 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Many 15 year olds are seriously retarded.
< 1275173612 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C...
< 1275173618 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i doubt that
< 1275173624 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Hear hear.
< 1275173629 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you happen to recall high school?
< 1275173637 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO probably the biggest pandemic in society right now is how we treat children
< 1275173653 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This was filled with people who thought football performance *mattered* in the long run.
< 1275173660 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: No, it's general stupidity.
< 1275173661 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We de-educate them to be fuckheads, then stop them making informed decisions about things for years on the grounds that they're not intelligent enough yet which is OUR FAULT!
< 1275173664 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: or well to be more precise; i doubt they are on average any more retarded than 18-yo's
< 1275173674 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: If we make our children intelligent... then stupidity is gone in a generation.
< 1275173677 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Well, on that count I agree.
< 1275173679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we didn't treat them like retarded, the retarded ones would quickly be "weeded" out
< 1275173690 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: True, but the stupid leading the stupid...
< 1275173690 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: high school was when people started life on their own
< 1275173696 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't believe many people are inherently idiotic, without mental disabilities.
< 1275173700 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, there is a gradient.
< 1275173712 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no one was retarded in high school
< 1275173718 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But teach the kid fucking rationality starting at an early age -- make their first things learned be how to fucking think properly because nobody can do it.
< 1275173730 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How to make conclusions instead of just using emotion and heuristics.
< 1275173740 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then once they're literate it's just a process of adding knowledge.
< 1275173740 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But people in general can't think rationally.
< 1275173745 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes they freaking can!
< 1275173750 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every intelligent person in the world can think properly.
< 1275173755 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hell, most primary-school teachers fail at even basic mathematics.
< 1275173759 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They can look at evidence, come up with theories, do experiments, come to conclusions.
< 1275173763 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not about arithmetic
< 1275173766 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1275173767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you are overly optimistic
< 1275173768 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's about being able to think.
< 1275173773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, in US or where?
< 1275173776 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UK.
< 1275173777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it is same in all countries
< 1275173785 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, what about in China?
< 1275173790 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: So, let me get this straight: You think that the vast majority of the human race is inherently stupid and can only think with emotion and heuristics?
< 1275173805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no, not the vast majority
< 1275173809 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes to watch the Stargate movie
< 1275173810 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One, no, most people are slightly intelligent, and if you can be slightly intelligent you can be moreso.
< 1275173818 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two, bullshit.
< 1275173825 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would make intelligent people an extremely statistical outlier
< 1275173827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, but I think "<alise> Every intelligent person in the world can think properly." is a gross exaggeration in the other direction
< 1275173827 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're not
< 1275173838 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Umm.
< 1275173843 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: So name an intelligent person who can't think properly.
< 1275173864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm actually, I misread that
< 1275173877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, somehow I did s/intelligent//
< 1275173889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my new claim is thus that far from everyone is intelligent enough
< 1275173890 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, it's simple fact that today's education system makes people stupid.
< 1275173899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on that I agree
< 1275173924 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a conformity factory. It was not designed to produce intelligence. It was designed to produce office workers.
< 1275173944 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahaha. There's an ad saying "See something? [relating to illegal downloads] Report it!"
< 1275173952 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And education can never work unless we teach people to think properly as the core part of it... schools are just about stuffing facts, but they stuff facts into brains without telling them how to utilise them first
< 1275173953 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This ad is on YouTube
< 1275173956 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: in tv series us people are in high school like in 3rd to 6th grade
< 1275173959 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and stuffing facts is not how you do mathematics ... or anything
< 1275173960 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1275173976 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like finnish people (when i was growing up at least) are in 3rd to 6th ...
< 1275174000 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway I doubt education levels will sufficiently improve
< 1275174008 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's probably true for finnish tv series too, i just don't watch them
< 1275174009 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because most people capable of educating a child properly will decide not to have one
< 1275174060 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, eh?
< 1275174069 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? why would someone not want a child
< 1275174100 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They represent a huge amount of time, money and effort.
< 1275174104 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: they're idiots, "wah wah people don't like me wah wah i had my period it's so embarrassing"
< 1275174117 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To the entire end that your genes will live on.
< 1275174123 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, here's the reasons:
< 1275174123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, sitcoms?
< 1275174128 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which isn't much good.
< 1275174129 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- the world is overpopulated already
< 1275174131 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no any tv series
< 1275174133 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since you're dead.
< 1275174138 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- there is so much suffering and stupidity in the world that putting someone new into it is basically cruelty
< 1275174141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, hm lets see. Star Trek
< 1275174146 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, is it the case there?
< 1275174146 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- it's basically a selfish thing to do
< 1275174151 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that I remember
< 1275174156 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- i like sleep
< 1275174165 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- other selfish reasons counteracting the selfishness like the money, effort, etc.
< 1275174189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, in fact I seem to remember quite a different view on things there.
< 1275174212 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: no, 1) no one cares about overpopulation 2) there's very little suffering or stupidity in the world, and life is awesome 3) yes
< 1275174216 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4) me too
< 1275174224 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1275174230 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry i read that as "i like sheep"
< 1275174233 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1275174248 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay then 4) who cares get a wife and just do the interesting parts
< 1275174261 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5) there's always enough money
< 1275174266 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) I care about overpopulation
< 1275174277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, are you ignoring my counterproof?
< 1275174281 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2) Life is fucking shit; for one pain is still around, for two poverty is still around, ...
< 1275174287 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you're still making a negative impact to it by just having one child per pair of humans
< 1275174290 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4) you can't sleep with a baby.
< 1275174296 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5) lucky you.
< 1275174312 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i haven't watched star trek
< 1275174312 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway i'm trying to convince oklopol of something, why
< 1275174319 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, okay, I suggest you do
< 1275174329 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1275174338 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: pain and poverty might be around, but not for the kid
< 1275174341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it is probably pointless unless it is about math
< 1275174346 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mr kid will grow up
< 1275174350 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what's wrong with adding humans with GOOD lives?
< 1275174362 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: overpopulation. and nobody has a truly good life
< 1275174367 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes they do
< 1275174370 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: and besides it'd ruin him, he's only fun because he's crazy
< 1275174371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, are you taking an utilitarian view here?
< 1275174374 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1275174376 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Have you ever had pain?
< 1275174383 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise is bitter.
< 1275174391 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: no, actually
< 1275174396 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this was my view before all this crap.
< 1275174416 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"<AnMaster> alise, it is probably pointless unless it is about math" <<< yeah alise convincing me of being wrong about something in math, that sounds pointful.
< 1275174419 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1275174421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so you were bitter before then too?
< 1275174423 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you're basically one of the "life isn't worth living" people?
< 1275174431 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No!
< 1275174443 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Always look at the bright side of life! <whistle>
< 1275174444 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just think that there's a lot of suffering in the world and we should work on making it better before subjecting other people to it
< 1275174448 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ^
< 1275174458 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: had pain? i've experienced pain, it's an interesting feeling, but you don't really get to try it much
< 1275174461 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you know, that was said while nailed to a cross
< 1275174469 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: well see this is why you don't understand :P
< 1275174472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, duh I seen the movie
< 1275174476 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: just mentioning
< 1275174478 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it was a joke
< 1275174480 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: True, but if we decide to fix suffering and then have children we'll all be old and infertile.
< 1275174493 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The world ends with a whimper.
< 1275174515 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh come on, that's a ridiculous thing to say.
< 1275174518 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275174519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I guess I was using it as meta-meta-sarcasm
< 1275174521 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're going to get old and infertile too.
< 1275174523 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*anyway
< 1275174532 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: intelligent people will not understand because they've used their intelligence to make their lives awesome.
< 1275174538 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore they will reproduce.
< 1275174541 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If we manage to eliminate suffering we'll have the technological prowess to create babies whatever it takes
< 1275174544 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes, but if we produce no more potentially fertile individuals.
< 1275174552 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eliminating suffering involves eliminating all illness, all pain, death, aging...
< 1275174559 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if you can do that, what's one teeny little baby
< 1275174570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oklopol> alise: had pain? i've experienced pain, it's an interesting feeling, but you don't really get to try it much <-- sure? put your hand in boiling water
< 1275174574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to try it
< 1275174575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1275174584 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes i do
< 1275174589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suuure
< 1275174592 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, some people don't feel pain as pain, just as a tingling feeling.
< 1275174592 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: not necessarily
< 1275174594 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is another means to eliminating suffering
< 1275174594 0 :tombom_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1275174595 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that would imply the nonexistence of human technology
< 1275174596 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: So basically your logic is that we shouldn't have children until the singularity?
< 1275174597 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps oklopol is the same...
< 1275174600 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i seem to have an extremely high threshold for getting burns
< 1275174602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, only by mistake I presume?
< 1275174604 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: it would imply the nonexistence of humans!
< 1275174615 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Pretty much. Yep.
< 1275174625 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, yes, I didn't say what I meant to say. It would imply us not having any technology
< 1275174626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, solution: Matrix
< 1275174633 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well no, i don't get sexual pleasure from pain, but it's a fun thing to try occasionally
< 1275174635 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: And what if the singularity is unattainable within a human lifetime?
< 1275174636 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: really?
< 1275174639 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :life is about experiencing stuff
< 1275174642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, ....
< 1275174645 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: A wild lifestyle would be very painful.
< 1275174648 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: there would be no us to have it
< 1275174653 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: right, that's what i said.
< 1275174655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, you know, I never considered it that far
< 1275174661 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well we'd have to completely genociderate all people
< 1275174669 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and animals
< 1275174670 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and everything
< 1275174682 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: What about my question?
< 1275174704 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1275174711 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gogo buddhism
< 1275174723 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it turns out that we don't have the time to attain the singularity in our lifetimes, we pretty much need to have children, or delegate everything to computers
< 1275174738 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which kind of defeats the point.
< 1275174743 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: are you a buddhist?
< 1275174749 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think insects can gain enlightenment
< 1275174753 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and killing them would be against buddhism
< 1275174754 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so...
< 1275174778 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: true, having babies for the purpose of introducing more intelligent people who will help the singularity happen is a good reason.
< 1275174793 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno if i'm altruistic enough to subject myself to that :P
< 1275174811 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: no
< 1275174812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, afaik that is not what most variants of Buddhism says.
< 1275174822 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh, hopefully there'll be robots to do childcare.
< 1275174824 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only good reason to have babies is they are probably the most interesting thing there is, i mean come on you have your own fucking HUMAN :d
< 1275174827 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: no what?
< 1275174832 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am  not a buddhist
< 1275174835 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1275174845 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Any sect of Buddhism that permits any sort of killing is probably not Buddhism.
< 1275174856 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can teach all sorts of magic
< 1275174873 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know there are several distorted sects of "Buddhism" that teach things like the existence of a material, tangible Hell like in Christianity and have a lot of bloodlust towards rival sects
< 1275174878 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :buddhism is just weird nihilism
< 1275174878 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's not really buddhism at all
< 1275174887 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, buddhism is not nihilism
< 1275174895 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nihilism would advocate no option in particular when presented with a list
< 1275174904 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :buddhism would always advocate towards total enlightenment
< 1275174922 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that form of nihilism
< 1275174923 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there really any difference between anything
< 1275174934 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the form of nihilism that advocates destruction of everything
< 1275174937 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes there is don't be stupid
< 1275174963 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: anyway i suppose those were my strongest opinions
< 1275174973 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait i had something about languages
< 1275174977 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right natlangs suck
< 1275174981 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that i haven't ranted about for a while
< 1275174987 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: no, buddhism is totally not that!
< 1275174988 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Singularity.
< 1275174997 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i think i've covered the others
< 1275174998 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I agree
< 1275175000 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :buddhism doesn't advocate the destruction of anything
< 1275175015 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it advocates achieving enlightenment, then snuffing yourself out by becoming one with everything or some mystical shit like that
< 1275175017 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should choose more opinions
< 1275175018 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they advocate attaining a state of nothingness
< 1275175034 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :destruction? impossible. Law of conservation of energy.
< 1275175036 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they equate nothingness with everythingness though, do they not?
< 1275175042 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they don't consider plain suicide achieving that
< 1275175049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, it might be a lot less easy to put something back
< 1275175051 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only death after enlightenment, which is basically your highest point anyway
< 1275175054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blame entropy
< 1275175054 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so completes your life to the full
< 1275175114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I argue that nothing is ever destroyed. It is at most converted into another form
< 1275175146 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Except the Cathedral of Chalesm.
< 1275175152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, augh
< 1275175171 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augh?
< 1275175190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, like "aaaaargh" kind of
< 1275175203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, very bad joke/reference
< 1275175205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO
< 1275175210 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, you got the reference!
< 1275175216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course
< 1275175223 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION awards AnMaster with a shoe
< 1275175245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, eh? wouldn't a towel be more fitting?
< 1275175257 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT'S WHAT YOU WERE EXPECTING
< 1275175269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay that one made no sense whatsoever
< 1275175271 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was the reference about
< 1275175285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, hitchhikers guide to the galaxy
< 1275175290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely you read it?
< 1275175291 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google it.
< 1275175294 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have not
< 1275175299 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's in the 3rd book.
< 1275175299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, then do so
< 1275175300 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't read fiction usually
< 1275175309 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Make an exception.
< 1275175311 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i don't read google either
< 1275175312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, it is a classic, everyone should know it
< 1275175316 0 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275175321 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no oklopol doesn't have to do anything
< 1275175322 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop that
< 1275175325 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like him just as he is
< 1275175330 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION puts oklopol in my pocket
< 1275175330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_-
< 1275175330 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i've read dostojevski's idiot
< 1275175336 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's classic enough for one lifetime
< 1275175350 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, this is scifi though
< 1275175358 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHUT UP ANMASTER
< 1275175364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no
< 1275175365 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you assume i like scifi?
< 1275175377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, yes
< 1275175381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, don't you?
< 1275175387 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i guess i do :)
< 1275175401 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, also humoristic, not dead serious at all
< 1275175407 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i liked idiot too
< 1275175411 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Humoristic is very much not a word.
< 1275175416 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Humorous, please.
< 1275175432 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway i really must get around to making a nicely typeset H2G2
< 1275175444 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean it wasn't as intelligent as south park, but it had some good points.
< 1275175459 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all I need is a copy with `` '' quotes, and some sort of easy marking for the italic sections
< 1275175462 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i can work some magic on it
< 1275175481 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah maybe i should read h2g2, at least i've decided to do that about 50 times
< 1275175509 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: buy it in dead tree, the online versions are shit
< 1275175520 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: and you can get all the five books in one so it's so thick you can barely hold it, it's wonderful
< 1275175535 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone here read Goedel, Escher, Bach?
< 1275175538 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I have it in paperback.
< 1275175539 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, paperback.
< 1275175547 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is the most ludicrously thick paperback imaginable.
< 1275175551 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have it in paperback too.
< 1275175556 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's not mine.
< 1275175559 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Isn't it ridiculous???
< 1275175568 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I borrowed it without intent of giving back.
< 1275175571 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was gonna order geb but for some reason i didn't
< 1275175579 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not that good a book
< 1275175581 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't actually read it.
< 1275175589 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love the dialogues, though
< 1275175592 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially the one at the end
< 1275175633 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not good? i thought it was a book where the characters are gliders in gol and they have a whole new kind of society of gliders that unravels before the readers sweaty eyes
< 1275175674 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1275175713 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but is it SORT OF like that
< 1275175735 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it's about goedel's incompleteness theorems and computation and consciousness and it has a ton of tortoise/achilles dialogues including ones where characters that are fictional and real in the universe swap half way through, the universe nests too much, and other things... and some other things.
< 1275175748 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the computation parts are not that much, it's mostly all about how it links together
< 1275175752 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DANGIT
< 1275175759 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i skipped over a lot of the TNT parts because it was just tedious symbol-manipulation to prove things
< 1275175761 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::This video contains content from Lionsgate, who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds.
< 1275175761 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::
< 1275175762 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you like proofs it's good.
< 1275175797 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i do like the occasional tedious symbol manipulation
< 1275175884 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually books meant for the layman have more of those really ugly symbol manipulation proofs than mathematical texts that consists only of proofs, i suppose this is because the point is not to actually teach anything, but to be able to copypaste some bullshit in the book that some nerd can read and think he's real tough
< 1275175892 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*consist
< 1275175904 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1275175932 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know those pathetic retards that read that sort of books and then they're all like "im hardcore brain boy"
< 1275175937 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: well it actually goes through goedel's incompleteness theorem in the formal system
< 1275175940 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in extreme depth
< 1275175944 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah cool
< 1275175949 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i wasn't really being serious
< 1275175951 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is mostly symbol manipulation, though :P
< 1275175958 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :althought what i said is true often, i guess
< 1275175958 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> Humoristic is very much not a word.
< 1275175959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> Humorous, please.
< 1275175966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :humousistic ;P
< 1275175973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(whatever that is)
< 1275175975 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :houmous
< 1275175981 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yep, indeed no r
< 1275175987 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :humoristical
< 1275176018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, anyway it would be logical if humoristic was a word
< 1275176025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would follow the pattern of other words
< 1275176040 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a word if you believe the American dictionaries, at least.
< 1275176051 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, also humoristisk in Swedish
< 1275176057 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But "humor" is the incorrect spelling, and I wouldn't even accept the abomination humouristic when the far superior word humorous is already there.
< 1275176058 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And F U too, Lionsgate
< 1275176065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I accept both US and UK spellings
< 1275176106 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and I can't see a reason why it is "far superior"
< 1275176134 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: if i use humor in writing and use humour when talking, does that sort of balance it out?
< 1275176138 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, the humor thing was basically a troll.
< 1275176147 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But humouristic sounds idiotic.
< 1275176154 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is incredibly inelegant and just makes you sound, well, Swedish.
< 1275176162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, only to someone used to UK English
< 1275176170 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or US English.
< 1275176174 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, actually a Dane could manage it too
< 1275176175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet
< 1275176186 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ju det är ett humöristikalt ord
< 1275176187 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1275176198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, what the heck was that
< 1275176209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pseudo Swedish
< 1275176210 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was perfect swedish
< 1275176214 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*jo
< 1275176214 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pseudo Swedish!
< 1275176215 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typo
< 1275176218 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1275176231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, wth would "humĂ¶ristikalt" mean though
< 1275176246 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :humĂ¶r != humor
< 1275176251 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well see
< 1275176264 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :humöristikalt to you is what humoristical sounds to an english dude
< 1275176270 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just trying to drive alise's point home
< 1275176272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1275176276 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!= â‰  â‰ 
< 1275176291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, humĂ¶r = mood, humor = humour
< 1275176298 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it's a word
< 1275176305 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right
< 1275176316 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, yep, which is why it confused the hell out of me
< 1275176338 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you use it in a sentence
< 1275176344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm google translate also suggests "temper" for "humĂ¶r"
< 1275176346 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no need to translate because i'm awesome
< 1275176349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, which? "humĂ¶r"=
< 1275176356 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/=/?/
< 1275176365 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eys
< 1275176367 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1275176380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, if yes: "jag Ă¤r pĂĄ dĂĄligt humĂ¶r"
< 1275176385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not that I am currently)
< 1275176394 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanx
< 1275176405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, and for the benefit of alise it means "I'm in a bad mood"
< 1275176411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I'm not indeed
< 1275176444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be "bad temper" also
< 1275176462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure which is the best translation
< 1275176466 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you do something like not that i am currently == jag är inte dock just nu
< 1275176483 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dock being a guess based on doch
< 1275176499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, what would "doch" be?
< 1275176511 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :german
< 1275176518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't speak German
< 1275176523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it something like "alas"?
< 1275176527 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that wasn't the question
< 1275176533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any case, the word order was wrong there.
< 1275176538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to figure it out
< 1275176547 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just nu är jag ...?
< 1275176561 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know how the dock works if it's the correct word
< 1275176570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"jag Ă¤r inte dock just nu" ~ "I am not alas right now". It ends up as wrong word order in English too
< 1275176573 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello sweeties
< 1275176578 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who needs help with german
< 1275176598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, "jag Ă¤r just nu dock inte pĂĄ dĂĄligt humĂ¶r" would work
< 1275176612 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay that looks good
< 1275176621 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also dock ~ doch ~ though
< 1275176633 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, dock sounds somewhat formal
< 1275176649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, I would use it in everyday speech but that tells more about me than about how it is used :P
< 1275176653 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i thought it's probably not really the best for swedish
< 1275176664 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't know swedish very well
< 1275176673 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm telling you this because you probably couldn't tell
< 1275176674 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hei, mitĂ¤ kuuluu?  :P
< 1275176681 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hyvää kuuluu entä sulle
< 1275176693 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kulli kädes oottelen vastaustas
< 1275176704 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, you actually know Finnish?
< 1275176711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, hm
< 1275176711 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit
< 1275176712 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's Finish, you idiot.
< 1275176714 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Finnish
< 1275176715 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1275176727 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@77.49.8.198.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275176752 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: mikä maksaa höpönassu
< 1275176753 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, you for Finnish?
< 1275176767 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: hmm?
< 1275176770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, um, how do you pronounce "hĂ¶pĂ¶nassu"?
< 1275176790 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's pronounced HĂ–-pĂ¶-nas-su.
< 1275176792 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Swedish it would be tricky and sound very very funny
< 1275176797 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION coughs.
< 1275176829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, how very helpful (not)
< 1275176836 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost like swedish except our u is your o, and you have to remember x is always short, xx is always long
< 1275176840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, a bit, not much
< 1275176847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, ah much more helpful
< 1275176854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, but there is no x in there
< 1275176860 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for all letters x
< 1275176863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1275176863 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sounds
< 1275176866 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: just a minute, I've almost finished decoding the first thing you said.  :P
< 1275176873 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sounds==letters
< 1275176879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, ah
< 1275176885 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: you probably shouldn't translate the rest... :P
< 1275176889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, so that is a long s?
< 1275176899 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :en massa av ... has it
< 1275176902 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er
< 1275176910 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly that's not exactly swedish
< 1275176911 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, not like in Swedish where "ass" in there would make a short a followed by a normal s?
< 1275176915 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i should just use english :P
< 1275176934 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the s's in "piss sack"
< 1275176934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oklopol> en massa av ... has it
< 1275176935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what?
< 1275176944 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has the double ss
< 1275176946 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*s
< 1275176948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1275176984 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HyvĂ¤... entĂ¤... sinĂ¤...
< 1275176995 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where were we?
< 1275176996 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: second one you should be able to translate, although it's colloquial, the third one might be challenging
< 1275177011 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Hyvää
< 1275177015 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1275177018 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was word-by-word
< 1275177033 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or umm i dunno what it was
< 1275177069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, hm does fi allow concatenation like Swedish does?
< 1275177076 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides he can leave "kulli" out of his flash cards for now.
< 1275177080 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1275177091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* uorygl decides he can leave "kulli" out of his flash cards for now. <-- what?
< 1275177092 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah take jölli instead
< 1275177124 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it means penis
< 1275177144 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i used it when responding to uorygl
< 1275177153 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, it's more fun to say my own stuff instead of trying to figure out what other people are saying.  :P
< 1275177156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does memory cards have to do with this
< 1275177159 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Why do you guys speak Japanese with a funny cypher?
< 1275177173 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: well it's fun to read what you say so go ahead
< 1275177180 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because Finnish is the Sacred Language of Things for Which Finnish is Used as a Sacred Language.
< 1275177211 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's "kĂ¤des" supposed to be, anyway?
< 1275177214 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: you should ask a linguist
< 1275177217 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: kädessä
< 1275177228 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: He's not here right now.
< 1275177230 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably learn what all these cases are.  :)
< 1275177235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh
< 1275177236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the lag
< 1275177239 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inessive, aiee...
< 1275177241 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in finnish it's common to drop stuff from most words
< 1275177244 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inessive, yes
< 1275177249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION saw a LOT arrive in a single second
< 1275177273 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, from kĂ¤si, hand-or-something.
< 1275177276 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1275177277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything after "* uorygl decides he can leave "kulli" out of his flash cards for now." up to "<uorygl> I should probably learn what all these cases are.  :)" arrived in a single second
< 1275177289 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :käsi -> käde is the weakening or whatever it's called
< 1275177309 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea what oottelen is.
< 1275177317 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's oDottelen
< 1275177338 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you usually drop it at least in turku, i think elsewhere too.
< 1275177348 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean at least in speech
< 1275177366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, "Inessive"? wth does that mean
< 1275177371 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: in X
< 1275177376 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INessive
< 1275177382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, you have a specially word form for that?
< 1275177385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow
< 1275177392 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a linguistic term
< 1275177408 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, it's that partitive case again.
< 1275177419 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah we have an inessive case
< 1275177429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, wow
< 1275177440 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: yes, plus another thing in the end too
< 1275177462 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "wow"? it's not exactly an uncommon case in languages that have those
< 1275177469 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does "vastaustas" break down?
< 1275177481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, hm
< 1275177482 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either you just have a few really generic ones, like german, or then you have these positional things too.
< 1275177490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, maybe
< 1275177493 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: you got it except for the s
< 1275177500 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's contracted from vastaustasi
< 1275177505 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, English and Swedish only have a few generic ones
< 1275177507 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vastaus - ta - si
< 1275177517 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Languages should have fewer cases.
< 1275177521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, French has a few more iirc but not quite as much
< 1275177524 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And tenses.
< 1275177529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, agreed
< 1275177546 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :While we're at it, we should reduce everything to grunts and vague gestures.
< 1275177555 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1275177561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm might make communication a bit harder
< 1275177565 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: so what do the ta and si do?
< 1275177567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in general I agree
< 1275177573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, would need to redesign IRC for it
< 1275177577 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: you got it already, ta is partitive
< 1275177598 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the si?
< 1275177599 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a word ends in s, the partitive is usually -ta (i think always)
< 1275177609 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: that's possessive
< 1275177621 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you
< 1275177622 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :r
< 1275177637 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oottelen vastaustasi = i wait for your answer
< 1275177642 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*i'm waiting
< 1275177659 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*odottelen
< 1275177660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did I end up reading "answer" as "shower"
< 1275177663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is just strange
< 1275177673 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i read your shower as showel
< 1275177679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, hah
< 1275177695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, at least the edit distance was less there
< 1275177695 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: so this makes "kulli kĂ¤des oottelen vastaustas" seem like two separate sentences.
< 1275177708 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where one of them is just a noun phrase.  :P
< 1275177734 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: wielding my dick i'm waiting for your answer
< 1275177746 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods.
< 1275177763 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that was fun.
< 1275177764 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but usually you'd say "odottelen vastaustasi pippeli kädessä"
< 1275177771 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's poetic
< 1275177777 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean
< 1275177788 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the original was a poetic word order, so to speak
< 1275177815 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i gave you a third name for penis, you can never have too many)
< 1275177824 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION quickly runs through his flash cards again.
< 1275177850 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nisĂ¤kĂ¤s
< 1275177859 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mammal
< 1275177868 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know what nisä is?
< 1275177874 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Breast?
< 1275177884 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it's more like a nipple but yeah
< 1275177895 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So "tit" is definitely right.
< 1275177927 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jĂ¤te
< 1275177928 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :käs can be done with other things too, although it's not used much
< 1275177933 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not doing all that well with these.
< 1275177943 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha, waste.
< 1275177966 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you chosen random words from a dicitonary?
< 1275177968 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*dictionary
< 1275177977 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty close.
< 1275177992 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm taking content words off of http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koira
< 1275178043 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would you say "the dog bone explodes"?
< 1275178054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* uorygl quickly runs through his flash cards again. <-- why do you speak about memory cards all the time...
< 1275178066 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because I use them for language learning.
< 1275178079 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: koiran luu räjähtää
< 1275178085 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not flash USB drives
< 1275178088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, oh
< 1275178093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what does he mean then?
< 1275178095 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :flash cards.
< 1275178105 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :word in certain language + meaning
< 1275178107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that means compact flash card or such to me
< 1275178108 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :used for memorising a language
< 1275178112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, oh like a "glosbok"?
< 1275178118 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flashcard
< 1275178118 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1275178125 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have cards with words on both sides
< 1275178128 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A flashcard or flash card is any of a set of cards bearing information, as words or numbers, on either or both sides, used in classroom drills or in private study."
< 1275178131 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An example for a French student of English learning "enough", which in French is assez (pronunciation given in IPA):
< 1275178132 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q: assez
< 1275178132 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A: enough, /ÉŞËnĘŚf/
< 1275178132 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reverse:
< 1275178132 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q: enough
< 1275178133 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A: /ÉŞËnĘŚf/, assez
< 1275178134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, ah
< 1275178136 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would've assumed it's flashcard in swedish
< 1275178140 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it?
< 1275178160 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can we at least talk klingon or something
< 1275178170 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all this swedish chef stuff is getting old
< 1275178177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, I never heard of this concept, and a glosbok is quite different
< 1275178178 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chef?
< 1275178180 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finnish isn't Swedish chef stuff.
< 1275178192 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1275178200 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Score: 10 of 20 = 50%"
< 1275178212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, please make a difference between Swedish and Finnish next time
< 1275178218 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you managed to insult both sides
< 1275178228 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmkay, "koiran luu rĂ¤jĂ¤htĂ¤Ă¤".  "Koiran" is the genitive there, yes?
< 1275178231 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1275178254 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do compounds like that always use the genitive like that?
< 1275178256 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, there is a difference?
< 1275178270 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: the bone of the dog
< 1275178296 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we use normal genitive with body parts
< 1275178306 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1275178324 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I do not believe that John Wiles has actually provided a proof with integrity, but more a proof checked by friends in the know" --crackpot saying he's proved FLT
< 1275178325 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :John Wiles!
< 1275178338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, ...........................
< 1275178362 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, .            .                      .                                           .                                                                                    .
< 1275178377 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can see that i spaced those dots in approximately a quadratic progression
< 1275178392 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: when you stick words together without a space in between, what do you do with the first word, case-wise?
< 1275178397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, and?
< 1275178410 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: usually nothing, rarely genitive
< 1275178414 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this is very related to the topic of the channel
< 1275178414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, anyway my answer is: stop trolling
< 1275178422 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: so you usually just use the stem?
< 1275178437 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but koiran luu is not a compound, it's just "the bone of the dog"
< 1275178442 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, i am not trolling - i just found your remark about finnish/swedish pride a bit funny that's all =)
< 1275178454 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: can you make compounds with a word in between?
< 1275178455 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death
< 1275178464 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, they are different language families
< 1275178496 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, believe it or not i know that
< 1275178535 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: the rules for whether there's a space are rather complicated in general, but for two nouns there's usually no space
< 1275178537 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1275178543 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods.
< 1275178645 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if you really wanted to say "dog bone", it would be... hm, I don't know what the stem of "koira" is.  Is it "koira", "koir", or something else?
< 1275178685 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you never drop anything from "koira"
< 1275178695 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, "koiraluu"?
< 1275178697 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait plural partitive is koiria
< 1275178701 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1275178736 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you carved stuff out of bones, you could call one of your products the "koiraluu"
< 1275178743 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it looked like a dog
< 1275178744 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION finds another way to watch his movie
< 1275178757 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spiffy.
< 1275178782 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure
< 1275178815 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1275178822 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's Megavideo though, which means being interrupted by "hey, you've watched too much video"
< 1275178830 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i think koiranluu is a bone you can buy for your dog to eat
< 1275178832 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1275178865 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think maybe I shouldn't be saying all this stuff in a logged channel
< 1275178871 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aiee, why the n/lack of space?
< 1275178874 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate megavideo, it's the best streaming service there is, but also the only limited one
< 1275178888 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: that's the rare no-space genitive compound.
< 1275178934 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"best", as in losses enforcement of copyright?
< 1275178942 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Loosest
< 1275179025 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: dude the authorities are not going to get you for piracy
< 1275179032 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chill the fuck out and stop worrying :P
< 1275179041 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :koiraluu will always make sense, either it has some specific meaning or it'll be used in context, koiranluu just usually sounds wrong, except when it happens to have a meaning (like in this case), koiran luu will always make sense, it's just the bone of a dog, it can have a more specialized meaning like in this case "dog bone", but it will always also be usable as a generic the bone of a dog.
< 1275179059 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes sense only if you swap a noun variable where luu and koira are :)
< 1275179066 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My dad instilled a sense of paranoia about that stuff
< 1275179110 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again, he's also paranoid about forwarding ports and running servers/hosting games
< 1275179123 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I should learn how to say stuff like "man".
< 1275179140 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mies
< 1275179142 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And "walk".
< 1275179147 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He once made me wipe my HD after I installed a chat seover of some kind
< 1275179149 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kävellä
< 1275179150 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Ihminen"  :P
< 1275179155 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that too
< 1275179156 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Server
< 1275179157 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :human = ihminen
< 1275179172 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man = mies
< 1275179185 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :walk = kävellä
< 1275179219 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: Your dad is a fool. Uh, of sorts.
< 1275179256 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The United States just isn't a good country for Sgeo.
< 1275179297 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Do you know of an X server framework that implements a basic forwarding X server?
< 1275179330 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: why would you want to learn finnish?
< 1275179347 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: because it's spoken in Scandinavia and it's not Indo-European.
< 1275179354 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also what did you end up deciding to do with your life?
< 1275179362 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still haven't decided.
< 1275179365 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay
< 1275179376 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: ur mom
< 1275179377 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess i was sort of expecting that answer
< 1275179383 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks up Finnish conjugation.
< 1275179395 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KĂ¤velen, kĂ¤velee... that's enough for now.  :P
< 1275179399 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl is going to become a professional eliezer yudkowsky fanboy
< 1275179406 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you moving to scandinavia, otherwise i might want elaboration on the reason
< 1275179409 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: stop using two spaces after a sentence
< 1275179417 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: it's typewriter legacy
< 1275179420 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kävelläkseen
< 1275179423 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ihminen kĂ¤velee!
< 1275179432 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I might move there eventually.  :P
< 1275179439 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unissas kävelee pälli
< 1275179453 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't seem to be able to behave in finnish
< 1275179488 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: if you do, please choose math :P
< 1275179498 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: done!
< 1275179509 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why?  Is there lots of demand for math in Scandinavia?
< 1275179546 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well no but i would insisting on us meeting (if you learned finnish and therefore moved here), and it would be most useful for me if you were a math enthusiast.
< 1275179553 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods.
< 1275179568 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Great.  Let's plan to meet... how does May 29, 2014 sound?
< 1275179573 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1275179576 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds good
< 1275179583 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Great, I'll add it to my calendar.  :P
< 1275179583 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i will totally meet you earlier
< 1275179589 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like in the next couple of years
< 1275179590 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately i don't really have anything to store dates in
< 1275179595 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd be so interesting.
< 1275179599 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i'll find a storage
< 1275179608 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to remind you 30 minutes before and then 5 minutes before.
< 1275179612 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe i'm not interesting
< 1275179620 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you'll be really disappointed
< 1275179629 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to write a little spreadsheet program
< 1275179640 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my gf just told me i was really odd a few days ago because i wanted to lick my knee all the time
< 1275179670 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow i am going to do that now
< 1275179675 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did it to my clothes but close enough
< 1275179682 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it feels cool
< 1275179697 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see, May 29, 2014 is a Thursday.
< 1275179711 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what time
< 1275179735 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, how about 3 PM?
< 1275179750 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i get off work at 4!
< 1275179757 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.  5, then?
< 1275179758 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah i can probably leave early
< 1275179760 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay
< 1275179771 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 pm where, at the uni?
< 1275179775 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could change jobs by then.
< 1275179778 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1275179779 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, where at the uni?
< 1275179781 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And which uni?
< 1275179793 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where i'm doing my research, turku university
< 1275179805 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main building, 4th floor of math dep
< 1275179816 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure about room number tho
< 1275179857 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess university of turku is the name but anyway
< 1275179917 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There, now my calendar contains two events.  :P
< 1275179922 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of them is in June, the other is in 2014.
< 1275179941 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe
< 1275179957 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made that appointment in June a few weeks ago.
< 1275179966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, I feel sorry for your gf
< 1275179981 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1275179983 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why
< 1275179984 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I asked, "How far ahead can I make an appointment?"  They said, "As far ahead as you like, I guess."
< 1275180004 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should have cackled evilly upon hearing that I had this unlimited power, but instead, I just made an appointment four weeks from that time.
< 1275180079 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1275180108 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should have also made an appointment eight weeks from that time, as I knew when I would be available.
< 1275180110 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"4 minutes after the End"
< 1275180112 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CAN THE NUMBER OF SECONDS INTO THE SPECIFIED MINUTE BE IRRATIONAL
< 1275180139 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The number of minutes into the specified hour must be a non-integer dyadic fraction.
< 1275180245 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mies kĂ¤velee.  That's easy enough.  And, uh...
< 1275180260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, you should have made an appointment in year 31827372 or such
< 1275180268 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, where was this btw?
< 1275180276 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The campus recreation center.
< 1275180279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1275180281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, for what?
< 1275180293 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To create a new exercise plan.
< 1275180340 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darn, I could have answered whatever I wanted.  I should have said, "To reconsider the allocation of recreation among the students to take into account the fact that nobody really *needs* recreation".
< 1275180398 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MinĂ¤ kĂ¤velen.
< 1275180402 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do exercise and recreation have to do with each other
< 1275180416 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I wonder where I'm walking to.
< 1275180418 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :recreational is a branch of mathematics
< 1275180420 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: don't ask me.
< 1275180432 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: you are forced to exercise or something? :p
< 1275180441 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, you're gonna need illative
< 1275180469 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am forced to exercise if I want to reap the benefits of exercise without resorting to some means by which I can reap the benefits of exercise without exercising.
< 1275180489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1275180515 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: you're so annoying
< 1275180518 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hope our visits to oklopol don't clash
< 1275180522 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1275180530 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see.  With the words I supposedly know, I can say...
< 1275180550 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :minä kävelen koiran suuhun
< 1275180560 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nm me
< 1275180560 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://man.cat-v.org/unix_WWB/1/sexist
< 1275180561 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I walk into the starting time, I walk into the animal, I walk into the stone, I walk into the shape...
< 1275180636 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://man.cat-v.org/unix_8th/6/atc ;; one of the most geeky games imaginable
< 1275180646 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: well do it
< 1275180661 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know the illative cases of those.
< 1275180674 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks them up.
< 1275180702 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some sort of lengthening or vowel + n
< 1275180709 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus all sorts of fun details
< 1275180726 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION attempts to find the spreadsheet program in unix 8th edition
< 1275180757 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MinĂ¤ kĂ¤velen alkuaikaan.  MinĂ¤ kĂ¤velen elĂ¤imeen.  MinĂ¤ kĂ¤velen kiveen.
< 1275180764 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So my guess for "shape" would be "muotoon".
< 1275180775 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep!  MinĂ¤ kĂ¤velen muotoon.
< 1275180790 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1275180817 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah visi
< 1275180818 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://man.cat-v.org/unix_8th/1/visi
< 1275180828 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> http://man.cat-v.org/unix_8th/6/atc ;; one of the most geeky games imaginable <-- nah, tried it, not realistic IMO
< 1275180840 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Koira kĂ¤velee luun suuhun.
< 1275180851 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no shit
< 1275180854 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a game
< 1275180855 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't make much sense.  :P
< 1275180884 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1275180947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yeah, I prefer simulations
< 1275181004 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/v223/334/56/n100000035296412_1208.jpg
< 1275181009 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neck is crazy
< 1275181035 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I'm kind of thirsty, and I want to talk about drinking, but that's really a vocabulary issue.
< 1275181036 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit ais left
< 1275181046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night â†’
< 1275181053 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nn AnMaster
< 1275181078 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1275181769 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think starting time is alkuaika
< 1275181806 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: doesn't make sense but it's meaningful
< 1275181853 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to find the actual cover of tri repetae
< 1275181890 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :open cover?
< 1275181922 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1275181931 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean what is that
< 1275181936 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :album art
< 1275181961 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i AnMaster's the word cover to be the topological term
< 1275181970 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*AnMaster'd
< 1275181995 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh.
< 1275181998 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay i thought cover in the sense new version of old thing
< 1275182058 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"incomplete without surface noise." -- the cover
< 1275182068 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("complete with surface noise." -- cover of vinyl version)
< 1275182330 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I propose we term what is usually called axioms, plus information about axioms, axiomata
< 1275182336 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why: it sounds nice
< 1275182829 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1275182866 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1275183173 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275183220 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275183892 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/cgih
< 1275183901 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should make this cleaner.
< 1275183961 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Metavideo, fuck you and your 72min limit
< 1275183995 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is about to run out of his 72
< 1275184067 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ima write one of them
< 1275184071 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks funerifierous
< 1275184085 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Heh.
< 1275184096 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: starting time isn't alkuaika?
< 1275184141 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well what kind of starting time?
< 1275184148 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BF = (Add n, Move n, Loop x, In, Out) ;; I want a dynamic language with adts
< 1275184153 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The point at which a long process began.
< 1275184156 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should futz with the 
< 1275184160 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :loop output
< 1275184177 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay if it's long then maybe
< 1275184199 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-243-205-116.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275184208 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was thinking like starting time in a race or something, maybe it doesn't mean that usually
< 1275184220 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mm.
< 1275184231 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you'd use lähtöaika
< 1275184348 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :opt (Loop [Add (-1)] : xs) = opt $ Clear : xs
< 1275184348 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :opt (Loop [Add 1] : xs) = opt $ Clear : xs
< 1275184350 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it's more general than this
< 1275184366 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need the extended euclidean algorithm to figure out whether a loop like that terminates, iirc
< 1275184386 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: btw you could write your optimiser simpler as repeated application until fixpoint of the optimisation function and no recursion :P
< 1275184431 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What sort of starting time is the time I began sneezing?
< 1275184438 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :opt (Loop x : xs) = Loop (opt x) : opt xs
< 1275184446 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Loop [Add 2, Add (-1)]
< 1275184453 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be
< 1275184454 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in the starting time of one particular sneeze.
< 1275184455 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optBF (Loop x : xs) = optBF $ Loop (optBF x) : xs
< 1275184482 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: i think alkuhetki
< 1275184488 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: also use Set n instead of Clear
< 1275184495 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alkuaika is more like for eras and the like
< 1275184519 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"tieteen alkuaikoina..." when science wazs younngg
< 1275184523 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*was young
< 1275184524 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: This is intended to first achieve feature-parity with a C program I wrote that does the same thing, and then go from there.
< 1275184527 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great translation
< 1275184533 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hetki is moment
< 1275184578 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The starting moment, eh?
< 1275184583 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you said that.
< 1275184599 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1275184606 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in finnish it sounds nonsilly.
< 1275184627 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods.
< 1275184632 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not exactly moment, hetki is a point in time, moment is, i guess, an interval
< 1275184643 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although they do have overlap, it's the usual translation
< 1275184683 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Zack M. Davis says, "[Recreational] is _not_ [a barnch of mathematics]!  Algebra, analysis, and topology are branches of mathematics.  'Recreational' is a diminituve applied to problems that are perceived as being
< 1275184701 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :being ...?
< 1275184702 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"easier or more 'fun' than 'serious' mathematics.  The distinction has everything to do with the ideology of professionalism and nothing to do with the theorems themselves."
< 1275184721 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> optBF [Add 42, Move 0, Add (-3)]
< 1275184721 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Add 42,Add (-3)]
< 1275184722 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr
< 1275184723 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And "And doesn't it make more sense as, 'What's the difference between (...)?'"
< 1275184756 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, i haven't been exposed to diminutive usage, but i was joking
< 1275184757 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, shouldn't he have said "'What's the difference between (...)?'?"?
< 1275184780 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Trying to do this better than me? :P
< 1275184793 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: EVERYTHING WILL BE SUPERIOR
< 1275184803 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: you know how far along esotope is btw? :P
< 1275184819 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esotope does quite a bit.
< 1275184822 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, I don't seem to be thirsty any more.
< 1275184829 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, how would you say "I don't seem to be thirsty"?
< 1275184883 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :literally en vaikuttaisi/näyttäisi olevan janoinen
< 1275184901 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which i suppose i would use in a situation where i'd say that
< 1275184914 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh umm
< 1275184937 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in your case you'd probably leave out the seem, "oho, jano lähti" or something :P
< 1275184978 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, how about something easier.  "The dog seems to be glowing."
< 1275184993 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Esotope COMPILES THE REGULAR LOOPING HELLO WORLD TO A PRINT STATEMENT.
< 1275184999 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :koira näyttää hehkuvan
< 1275185051 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes, I'm well aware.
< 1275185057 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's pretty crazy.
< 1275185090 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: However, it still has pointer loads *all the freaking time*.
< 1275185094 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because GCC sucks.
< 1275185098 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol i keep trying to look at the repository for esotope but i can't stop staring at mearie.org's pretty design instead
< 1275185100 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: right.
< 1275185102 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tried clang?
< 1275185108 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clang too.
< 1275185111 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it optimises array references into variables when it can!
< 1275185130 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: so what's "hehkuvan"?
< 1275185150 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from hehkua, which is glow i think
< 1275185182 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you get to "hehkuvan" from that?
< 1275185184 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but näyttää hehkuvan is actually a rather special construction, i'm not even sure what case hehkuvan is in
< 1275185196 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esotope's design is pretty hard to grok, though.
< 1275185200 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1275185232 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wiktionary says "active present participle sg. in genitive".
< 1275185244 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1275185260 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first -va, hehkuva is something that glows, then that's genitive
< 1275185260 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should just give it an x86 asm backend.
< 1275185267 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that word is inflected *and* declined?  >.>
< 1275185288 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, conjugated *and* declied.
< 1275185288 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the verb is made into a noun sort of thing, then genitive is added
< 1275185296 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conjugated *and* declined, even.
< 1275185303 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods.
< 1275185343 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: would be a good idea.
< 1275185354 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders "The dog seems to walk".
< 1275185377 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i see no reason why it would actually be that meaning, i would've guessed it's some old form that verbs used to be in more often, but nowadays just for "näyttää"
< 1275185405 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because with that interpretation it's "shows something that glows"
< 1275185408 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Koira nĂ¤yttĂ¤Ă¤ kĂ¤velvĂ¤n"?  Em...
< 1275185414 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kävelEvän
< 1275185433 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kĂ¤velevĂ¤n.  Why the e?
< 1275185455 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kävelee -> kävelevä
< 1275185469 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION attempts to type Ă¤ a bunch of times and ends up with this: aĂ¤Ă¤aĂ¤aĂ¤aĂ¤aĂ¤aĂ¤Ă¤Ă¤Ă¤Ă¤Ă¤Ă¤Ă¤aĂ¤Ă¤Ă¤Ă¤Ă¤Ă¤Ă¤Ă¤
< 1275185501 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, look, "kĂ¤vellĂ¤" is conjugated "kĂ¤velee" in the third person singular.  :)
< 1275185511 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1275185571 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So is "The dog seems to lift" "Koira nĂ¤yttĂ¤Ă¤ nostavan"?
< 1275185577 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1275185586 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The word "nostavan" seemed to pop into my head for some reason, and then it turned out to be correct.  :)
< 1275185603 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it came to mind, and then it turned out to seem correct, and then it further turned out to actually be correct.  :P
< 1275185618 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow triple lucky
< 1275185643 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1275185705 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION peeks at the third-person singular of "syĂ¶dĂ¤".
< 1275185747 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks like "The dog seems to eat the bone" is going to be "Koira nĂ¤yttĂ¤Ă¤ syĂ¶vĂ¤n luun".
< 1275185762 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1275185772 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you sure?  :P
< 1275185775 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except probably "koira näyttää syövän luuta"
< 1275185802 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good ol' partitive case.
< 1275185810 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i can't imagine it seeming to eat the whole bone in one go
< 1275185824 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finnish is such a strange language, why would anyone want to learn it.  :P
< 1275185831 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what i asked!
< 1275185855 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is looking at a side-by-side diff between known-working and known-broken output.
< 1275185863 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Koira nĂ¤yttĂ¤Ă¤ syĂ¶vĂ¤n luun" <<< this can also mean "the dog shows the bone of the cancer"
< 1275185865 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cannot figure out WTF is going on
< 1275185889 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps I went to DeviantArt once, saw the work of a Finnish artist, and thought, "I like this stuff.  I want to learn Finnish".  :P
< 1275185928 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like I've got completely and utterly different control flow happening.
< 1275185965 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-92-128.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275186059 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to understand a man's art, you have to understand his brainage, to understand a man's brainage, you need to learn finnish.
< 1275186073 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because finnish is the language of understanding
< 1275186076 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course.
< 1275186082 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1275186082 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu
< 1275186093 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brainage: Train Your Brain in Minutes a Day!
< 1275186133 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This particular optimisation might be easier if I compile into Jumpfuck and optimise that.
< 1275186143 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Väliaikainen takuu palkinto - aivojumppaa puhelimeesi. Voita uusi iPad. Onko tämä uusi iPad sinun? Ultra cool iPad.
< 1275186162 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can give you all the spam i seeas homework
< 1275186166 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*see as
< 1275186173 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonderful.  :P
< 1275186184 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least one of the sentences should be simple
< 1275186199 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: write a finnish/lojban pidgin
< 1275186206 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whenever you don't know a lojban word or it doesn't have one, use the finnish one
< 1275186210 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you can combine lojban and finnish words into one
< 1275186211 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go
< 1275186257 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but wouldn't that be really gay
< 1275186284 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw i have no idea what "Väliaikainen takuu palkinto" means
< 1275186291 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can tell me if you know
< 1275186365 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW THE HECK IS THIS DAMNED THING GETTING "Set 0 : Add 1"?
< 1275186399 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ÂˇAy, my Internet cut out.
< 1275186417 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's that case meaning "as a ..."?
< 1275186443 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here we go, the essive.
< 1275186447 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: just try it plz
< 1275186450 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Screw it; I'm redoing the optimiser slightly.
< 1275186453 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: not sufficiently reoptimising
< 1275186455 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i tell you
< 1275186457 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't recurse
< 1275186460 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then reiterate until fixpoint
< 1275186460 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Fixed point, BTW? Good idea.
< 1275186464 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slower, yes, who cares
< 1275186472 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lost kng is biggest program, if it takes 3 minutes, who cares
< 1275186477 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lĂ¤ksyinĂ¤
< 1275186487 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could divide & conquer actually
< 1275186511 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :divide program into 2n pieces, fixpoint each, then combine every 2
< 1275186516 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd actually use the translative case :)
< 1275186521 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and fixpoint on them
< 1275186522 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then combine every 2
< 1275186524 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and fixpoint on them
< 1275186528 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :until there is only one piece left
< 1275186535 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., we optimise small clusters, then fix the "seams" at the edges
< 1275186538 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: DOOOO IT
< 1275186541 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, there actually is something called a translative case?
< 1275186571 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So "I can give you all the spam I see as homework" would translate "as homework" using the translative?
< 1275186573 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it's the illative to essive's inessive
< 1275186574 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strange.
< 1275186597 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it's sort of "for homework"
< 1275186597 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: DO IT
< 1275186607 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i give this stuff to you so that it becomes homework
< 1275186622 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so not really at all for i guess
< 1275186622 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh.  What is this peculiarity to?
< 1275186649 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Yay for using prepositions in strange ways.)
< 1275186656 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Hrm. Actually, I'm having a thinko on how to do this. Care to explain what you think so I feel less stupid?
< 1275186664 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well see if you give something then translative, when it is something it's essive.
< 1275186677 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you give it to be homework, and then it is your homework
< 1275186681 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods.
< 1275186684 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"fix . opt' $ xs" seems wrong somehow.
< 1275186706 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: simple -- also that wouldn't work:
< 1275186712 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you told me you've been given something as homework, there would be no change going on, and you'd use the essive, "minulla on läksynä hauskanpitoa"
< 1275186713 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :opt (foo : bar : xs) = foobar : xs
< 1275186714 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :opt' xs is a function whose fixed point you want to find?
< 1275186720 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc
< 1275186720 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then
< 1275186722 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like I said, seems wrong.
< 1275186729 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :opty x = if opt x == x then x else opt x
< 1275186735 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you can bind it elsewhere if you wish)
< 1275186737 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: one exception,
< 1275186739 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :opt (x:xs) = opt xs
< 1275186742 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1275186743 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :opt (x:xs) = x : opt xs
< 1275186748 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should be the only recursion
< 1275186752 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically chop out all recursions
< 1275186755 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Right.
< 1275186757 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from that one
< 1275186795 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FOR EVERY TOTAL COMPUTABLE FUNCTION f : N -> N THERE IS SOME n SUCH THAT n AND f(n) PERFORM THE SAME OPERATION.
< 1275186825 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Thanks.
< 1275186884 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: HEY THAT'S NOT TRUE MAN
< 1275186891 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: f(n) = S(n)
< 1275186893 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW HUH
< 1275186913 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :S(S(S(S(S(S(S(S(S(S(...
< 1275186919 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fix(f) = n s.t. [f(n) = n] = n s.t. [S(n) = n] = disproven beyotch
< 1275186921 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, but that doesn't count.
< 1275186922 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: that's not a natural
< 1275186933 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q.E.fuckin'.D.
< 1275186934 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The successor function simply has no fixed point!
< 1275186935 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WELL UMM THE TURING MACHINES THAT n AND f(n) HAPPEN TO INDEX IN OUR GÖDEL NUMBERING, I SUPPOSE THAT'S A BIT IMPORTANT
< 1275186944 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would so end my proofs with "Q.E.fuckin'.D." were I ever to be published
< 1275186946 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1275186949 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: WELL YEAH I GUESS THAT IS TRUE LOL.
< 1275186951 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually that's not at all important really
< 1275186953 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: WAIT NO
< 1275186963 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: ONLY IF YOU CONSTRUCT YOUR GOEDEL NUMBERING LIKE THAT
< 1275186964 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OBVS.
< 1275186987 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah you can't make a total computable function that checks how many things a tm prints and prints one more
< 1275186988 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Also, don't you mean opty x = if opt x == x then x else opty x
< 1275186988 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1275186994 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: no
< 1275186999 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: read that again
< 1275187002 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and feel silly.
< 1275187004 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, what if your GĂ¶del numbering says "if it's odd, output A and subtract one; otherwise, output B; in any case, continue"?
< 1275187007 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then amend the recursion
< 1275187022 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that allowed?
< 1275187029 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: ?
< 1275187035 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If not, Âżpor quĂ© no?
< 1275187035 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: if what is odd
< 1275187039 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: opty x = ... else opty x
< 1275187040 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: the number.
< 1275187049 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1275187060 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the gödel numbering means a surjection from naturals to the set of all turing machines
< 1275187067 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly it's supposed to be opt (opty x).  :P
< 1275187075 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess not every Turing machine immediately outputs one of those.
< 1275187097 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"opty x = if opt x == x then x else opt x" doesn't quite seem right, though.
< 1275187105 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, it's opty (opt x).
< 1275187125 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TADA
< 1275187125 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait. Find the fixpoint of *that*. Okay.
< 1275187139 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Simple enough.
< 1275187145 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: but you can easily have a goedel numbering where n+1 always outputs something different to n
< 1275187148 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no?
< 1275187153 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the numbering doesn't have to be computable does it :)
< 1275187162 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely the numbering does have to be computable.
< 1275187195 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why?
< 1275187206 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because otherwise the stuff we've said is true would be false.  :P
< 1275187213 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1275187217 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: but you can easily have a goedel numbering where n+1 always outputs something different to n
< 1275187218 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no?
< 1275187220 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if it's computable
< 1275187223 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now to figure out where my type error's from.
< 1275187226 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assert this conjecture without proof or knowledge
< 1275187228 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just asserting it
< 1275187230 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: lern2haskel
< 1275187246 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: It's been a while, okay?
< 1275187257 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: well, then, you must be wrong.  :P
< 1275187262 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err yes the fixed point theorem requires the gödel numbering is computable
< 1275187275 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHUT UP I DENY YOUR THEOREMA
< 1275187292 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now make a computable algorithm to find the fixed point bitch
< 1275187327 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Couldn't match [BF] -> [BF] against inferred [BF]" Clearly, I am being stupid about something.
< 1275187361 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in what code
< 1275187381 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: also is it only for N -> N? you sure
< 1275187381 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION feels uneducated
< 1275187388 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fix opt'' xs
< 1275187392 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that's a function
< 1275187400 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's trying to match it to a non-function
< 1275187403 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: yes, any total computable function from turing machines to turing machines
< 1275187411 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well their godel numbers
< 1275187415 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: fix :: (a -> a) -> a
< 1275187425 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: so opt'' should be ([BF] -> [BF]) -> [BF] -> [BF}
< 1275187426 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: so opt'' should be ([BF] -> [BF]) -> [BF] -> [BF]
< 1275187427 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1275187431 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: protip: you don't want fix
< 1275187432 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop using fix
< 1275187439 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: just write a fucking recursive function
< 1275187442 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes, it works without fix
< 1275187448 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1275187452 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.fark.com/cgi/comments.pl?IDLink=5351459
< 1275187457 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, I was being stupid.
< 1275187462 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would not have been able to tell you which president resigned
< 1275187463 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/
< 1275187464 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: goedel reals <3
< 1275187489 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mind you, I didn't go and say "I don't think any presidents resigned"
< 1275187499 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: nixon :P
< 1275187508 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I know that now
< 1275187512 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't know but... i'm not american, and nixon was _basically_ impeached
< 1275187523 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of :P
< 1275187531 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in my fantasy land)
< 1275187537 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey nixon's middle name is milhous(e)
< 1275187570 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let h be the computable function, then let f(x) = h(x(x)), now f(f) = h(f(f)), where x(y) means x is curried with y
< 1275187610 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess i couldn't just googled that without using my half-asleep brain
< 1275187619 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of
< 1275187651 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need total-computable gödels so that currying works, i think
< 1275187703 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION posts his confession in the thread
< 1275187723 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And... WTF is it doing.
< 1275187725 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1275187753 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it sexing?
< 1275187782 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's doing "+[-]+" -> [Add 2]
< 1275187797 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather than [Set 1]
< 1275187810 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: if you want to become intelligent howsabout not reading fark
< 1275187817 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: look at the code i suggest.
< 1275187826 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquot <pikhq> And... WTF is it doing.  <pikhq> :(  <Sgeo_> Is it sexing?
< 1275187827 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1275187827 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote <pikhq> And... WTF is it doing.  <pikhq> :(  <Sgeo_> Is it sexing?
< 1275187835 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :168|<pikhq> And... WTF is it doing.  <pikhq> :(  <Sgeo_> Is it sexing?
< 1275187842 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1275187843 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8|<Warrigal> GKennethR: he should be told that you should always ask someone before killing them.
< 1275187857 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1275187858 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :114|<Eeyore> I used to have salt licks for my horses. They would make cool abstract sculptures with them.
< 1275187862 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1275187863 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :120|<Sgeo|web> Where's the link to the log?  <lament> THERE'S NO LOG. YOUR REQUEST IS SUSPICIOUS AND HAS BEEN LOGGED.
< 1275187880 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1275187881 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14|<reddit user "othermatt"> So what you're saying is that I shouldn't lick my iPhone but instead I should rub it on my eyes first and then lick my eyeballs?
< 1275187884 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1275187885 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :113|<xan> if you watch jaws backwards it's a movie about a giant shark that throws up so many people they have to open a beach
< 1275187887 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1275187888 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :70|<pikhq> Gregor is often a scandalous imposter. It's all the hats, I tell you.
< 1275187890 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1275187892 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :90|<oklopol> hmm, this is hard
< 1275187893 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1275187894 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :103|<oklofok> i use dynamic indentation, i indent lines k times, if they are used O(n^k) times during a run of the program
< 1275187896 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1275187898 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :56|<oklopol> i'm my dad's unborn sister
< 1275187900 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1275187901 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :140|<fax> oklopol geez what are you doing here  <oklokok> ...i don't know :<  <oklokok> i actually ate until now, although i guess i also did other things...
< 1275187904 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1275187905 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1275187908 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT
< 1275187909 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1275187912 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1275187914 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1275187917 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help
< 1275187918 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
< 1275187925 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION see no way for that to happen
< 1275187927 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody's changed it...
< 1275187931 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT WHO WAS PHONE
< 1275187942 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/4bc215bfa512/bin/quote
< 1275187945 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :db lock maybe?
< 1275187954 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :selected too many times and got corrupted and/or just lock is stuck?
< 1275187958 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`sqlite3 quotes/quote.db
< 1275187959 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1275187964 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run sqlite3 quotes/quote.db 2>&1
< 1275187965 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1275187970 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run quote 2>&1
< 1275187972 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1275187978 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo fucks
< 1275187992 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dasfsdfsdf
< 1275187994 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1275188005 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think HackEgo broke.
< 1275188011 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gregorrr
< 1275188267 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"add ecx, -1;add ecx, -1"
< 1275188268 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sobs
< 1275188275 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW DID IT DO THAT
< 1275188277 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND WHY
< 1275188331 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would seem to only be doing that in loops. That's actually helpful.
< 1275188376 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, it would be if THAT MADE ANY SENSE
< 1275188537 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and yes, I *am* recursing into loops)
< 1275188687 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION attempts to find a test case
< 1275188719 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is so far failing
< 1275189001 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol dynamic indentation
< 1275189017 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1275189018 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1275189022 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: just use BFoptimlangijgj
< 1275189027 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION punches HackEgo
< 1275189027 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: how do you determine where to put empty lines?
< 1275189104 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well umm
< 1275189112 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno man
< 1275189126 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also that should be theta
< 1275189182 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps the distance between lines should be proportional to the probability of a page fault.
< 1275189206 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Near as I can tell, there exists a way for the optimiser to *not* recurse into a loop.
< 1275189211 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :          opt' (Loop x : xs) = Loop (opt' x) : xs
< 1275189223 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: silly rabbit
< 1275189226 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How, pray tell, is it possible to not recurse?
< 1275189228 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :opt' (Loop x : xs) = Loop (opty x) : xs
< 1275189236 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trix are for kids#
< 1275189240 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/#//
< 1275189247 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck, fuck fuck
< 1275189255 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Still not recursing!
< 1275189264 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :recurse an anus then paste the code
< 1275189284 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/ieEV
< 1275189288 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION recurses an anus
< 1275189314 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong order
< 1275189317 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you fail out of operation bitch.
< 1275189325 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :opt :: [BF] -> [BF]
< 1275189326 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :opt (Loop x : xs) = opt $ xs
< 1275189331 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i see
< 1275189337 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your program is structured shittily, dude
< 1275189338 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*facepalm*
< 1275189354 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i think you should be banned from coding
< 1275189357 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clean this shit up
< 1275189369 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any other suggestions?
< 1275189380 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://esolangs.org/files/brainfuck/impl/bf2c.hs
< 1275189384 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make it look more like this.
< 1275189402 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is actually really elegant haskell code)
< 1275189407 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and was state of the art until esotope)
< 1275189424 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, just modify the code there to output asm
< 1275189430 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it already optimises multiplication and shit, and does for loops
< 1275189454 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's actually a really good idea.
< 1275189560 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, just modifying that or doing those optimisations?
< 1275189562 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I presume the former
< 1275189580 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Modifying that.
< 1275189588 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yar
< 1275189610 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has some weirdness, like it uses hugely negative numbers as tape locations to indicate program doing io and stuff
< 1275189615 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but those are way outside the array range anyway
< 1275189616 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoa, awesome:
< 1275189616 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so not a big deal
< 1275189621 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd change the list import to Data.List, though
< 1275189631 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: thankfully the backend is very abstracted
< 1275189640 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's this pillow near me that has sixteen colored circles, arranged in a square.
< 1275189640 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yeah.
< 1275189645 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just modify after -- output to -- main
< 1275189651 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just realize that the colors of the circles correspond to the Gaussian integers modulo 5.
< 1275189662 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just rewriting the output section.
< 1275189669 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/realize/realized/
< 1275189700 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo bf2c.hs is the nicest BF compiler yet, because it's -- well, not close to esotope, but it does a lot of very important optimisations -- and the code is really, really elegant
< 1275189721 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2002 vintage haskell :)
< 1275189779 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://academic.research.microsoft.com/Author/2851361.aspx this guy likes sudoku a lot
< 1275189786 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same bertram felgenhauer, I wonder? probably.
< 1275189816 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: also, the license on that code is a little ambiguous
< 1275189823 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"GPL", but since it was published 2002 it's GPL2 with nigh-on uncertainty
< 1275189834 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suggest leaving that line as-is
< 1275189846 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that's not all the changes
< 1275189846 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- act as a simple filter; read brainfuck code from stdin and
< 1275189847 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- write C code to stdout.
< 1275189855 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :change C code to "assembly" :P
< 1275189889 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: By the GPL license, just saying "GPL" means "any version, at your choice".
< 1275189900 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1275189903 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i don't believe the gpl license has the power to dictate what arbitrary text means when it uses a name
< 1275189912 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, uh, just leave the line there :P
< 1275189922 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, but convention does
< 1275189941 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: It's part of the versioning text...
< 1275189946 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can reasonably assume he means any version of the GPL, then it does
< 1275189962 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: ok lawyer :P
< 1275189966 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(provided for normal mistake law to apply if not)
< 1275189968 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of each and every such version of the GPL.
< 1275189996 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the actual text of the GPL is irrelevant
< 1275190042 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could say "the term 'pumpernickel' means 'GPL'" and it wouldn't matter; what would matter is if people actually used 'pumpernickel' that way
< 1275190055 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@77.49.8.198.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275190069 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes that the Term outputting code will be slightly annoying to do in assembly
< 1275190089 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that's the price to pay for optimisation~
< 1275190094 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True.
< 1275190119 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: just make it instead "spitOutTermCommandsSoThatTheyAppearInSomeFuckingAwesomeRegisterHellsYeah"
< 1275190174 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shall see about loading into esp
< 1275190270 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1275190499 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :       Reads ASCII data as input.  Produces a portable graymap with pixel valâ€
< 1275190500 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :       ues which are an approximation of the "brightness" of the ASCII characâ€
< 1275190500 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :       ters, assuming black-on-white printing.  In other words, a capital M is
< 1275190500 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :       very dark, a period is ver light, and a space is  white.   Input  lines
< 1275190500 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :       which  are  fewer  than  width characters are automatically padded with
< 1275190500 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :       spaces.
< 1275190593 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another advantage: it'll be possible to compile LostKng without 3G of RAM handy.
< 1275191396 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Any luck?
< 1275191412 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Laziness prevaileth!
< 1275191423 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: no! :(
< 1275191425 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted to see it
< 1275193565 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275194843 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4:46; bed soon
< 1275194848 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: any luck?
< 1275194861 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEIN
< 1275194946 0 :Tritonio_GR1!~Tritonio@178.128.137.232.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275194997 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1275194998 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1275195590 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1275195706 0 :sshc_!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275195722 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, g'night
< 1275195723 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: WORK
< 1275195726 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1275195925 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1275196017 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275196079 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275196293 0 :sshc_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1275196725 0 :sshc_!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275196914 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1275197187 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1275197314 0 :Tritonio_GR1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1275199425 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1275199469 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"There is currently none, but the sources are commented. If you need help, read comments. If you still need help, ask your friends. For more help, visit some discussion forum. If you are completely despaired, create your own forum. If you are ready to commit suicide, well, drop me a mail (ollydbg at t-online de). Set subject to PaperBack, or you will be considered spam and filtered out. Allow 4 to 6 weeks for delivery."
< 1275199488 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1275200198 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1275202364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net
< 1275202378 0 :AnMaster!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275204650 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone know what the first number in an X display specification is? (:0.0). I know that the second is the screen and the first somehow specifies the display; is it a port-related thing?
< 1275204762 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That number is added to some constant that I don't recall to get the actual TCP port.
< 1275204805 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, doesn't necessarily go over TCP; xlib on local host will generally do it all via shared memory, for instance.
< 1275204832 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not fundamental to the protocol, though
< 1275204851 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that's just a common optimisation.
< 1275204870 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, port 6000
< 1275204877 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strictly speaking, more of an *extension* to the protocol than anything else.
< 1275204882 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1275204904 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which works well because what sort of mad-man doesn't use xlib or xcb?
< 1275204924 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or a library that indirectly uses either one)
< 1275204945 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: someone implementing a server
< 1275204972 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: For a client.
< 1275204978 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(like me)
< 1275204992 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone implementing a server is just moderately mad because there's a *lot* of stuff to X.
< 1275205043 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I'm definitely moderately mad
< 1275205064 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want a server that allows me to run a program on it and forward it to another server, and then disconnect and/or reconnect it as necessary
< 1275205077 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly to a different server
< 1275205130 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, so you're reimplementing that xdetach thing that's not been maintained in ages?
< 1275205135 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank you thank you thank you.
< 1275205207 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying
< 1275205281 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD-tach is the working name
< 1275205772 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to be using Erlang since it feels very right
< 1275206140 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1275206351 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275206399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1275206400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275207429 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1275207772 0 :bsmntbombdood!~gavin@174-29-91-124.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275208636 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275210014 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1275210684 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275211184 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275212081 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1275213220 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275213261 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275213262 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host
< 1275213262 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275213506 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1275213542 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275213871 0 :oklopol!~oklopol@a91-153-122-35.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275214544 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275214831 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There appears to be a dog in my fireplace.
< 1275215164 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, Finland's entry for Eurovision was awesome.
< 1275215215 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm intrigued by both your messages.
< 1275215235 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you elaborate on both in one sentence
< 1275215415 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I heard sounds not dissimilar to a dog coming from my fireplace and the entry made by Finland to Eurovision was awesome.
< 1275215440 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it still doesn't beat their 2006 entry.
< 1275215797 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, the awesome one didn;t get through,
< 1275215806 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn you, Finland!
< 1275215822 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay what was the awesome one?
< 1275215830 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hummpa something.
< 1275215858 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hulluna humpasta
< 1275215870 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is it.
< 1275215920 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you're the Finnish guy
< 1275215931 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some reason I thought you were Polish...
< 1275215936 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know eitther
< 1275215952 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i'm not sure where you're from so
< 1275215964 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :us i'd guess
< 1275215969 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not!
< 1275215975 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rescind that immediately!
< 1275215982 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rescinded!
< 1275216015 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am from the UK.
< 1275216054 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well uk us what's the diff :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
< 1275216066 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is funny
< 1275216084 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my internet is being lazy
< 1275216207 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1275216212 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275216219 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think that's eläkeläiset's best work
< 1275216267 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay the ending is awesome
< 1275217197 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although expensive in keyboards.
< 1275217203 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1275217330 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275219501 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone say something!
< 1275219665 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275219673 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro!
< 1275219740 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover!
< 1275219743 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xd-tach progressed tonight!
< 1275219744 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can now connect to an X server and then drop the connection
< 1275219753 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is xd-tach?
< 1275219779 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my detachable X server
< 1275219805 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dtach, except for x
< 1275219931 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll probably implement a third of the protocol myself before dropping it and switching to Xnest
< 1275220073 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although Xnest doesn't do everything I want it to
< 1275221834 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so guys
< 1275221838 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who won eurovision?
< 1275221868 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay
< 1275221869 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lena won
< 1275221871 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3
< 1275222385 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION still doesn't get how you can have Windows programs that can't be removed in Windows
< 1275222461 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate    Arbeit sukzessive beantworten m Ěchte,
< 1275222461 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                                  o
< 1275222461 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soweit m Ěglich:
< 1275222461 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        o
< 1275222463 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1275222473 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn PDFs.
< 1275222542 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate Arbeit sukzessive beantworten möchte, soweit möglich:
< 1275222561 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1275222575 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone who speaks German?
< 1275222741 0 :CakeProphet!~CakeProph@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275222746 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello.
< 1275222768 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...it's been a while. I don't even know if anyone remembers me. :P
< 1275222799 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not.
< 1275222845 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You probably weren't around a few years ago
< 1275222846 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me either
< 1275222860 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this some attempt at grassroots politics
< 1275222864 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes.
< 1275222866 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1275222877 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: You're German, right?
< 1275222882 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no.
< 1275222885 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-ahem- no. I was just thinking about a modification to bf, and so I thought now would be a good time to refrequent this channel.
< 1275222899 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1275222902 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you shall stay
< 1275222907 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1275222923 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: What is it?
< 1275222950 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was also wondering... has anyone seen a modification of bf to emulate a non-deterministic or probabilistic (or quantum) Turing machine?
< 1275223013 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a quantum Brainfuck, yes,
< 1275223025 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: well I'm in rough draft stages at the moment... but essentially it's like usable brainfuck with inter-algorithm communication.
< 1275223045 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Quantum_brainfuck
< 1275223091 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you make a set of named super-bf programs... and then declare how their inputs and outputs connect, and they all run concurrently. Another important addition is that there's now three, yes /three/, pipelines for both input and output
< 1275223109 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y
< 1275223148 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two are generally equivalent... but are labelled "data" and "control" to signify the semantics they're intended for... and then the third is "system", which communicates with a global environment
< 1275223164 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's piped Brainfuck?
< 1275223168 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes.
< 1275223169 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y
< 1275223172 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suggested name: Drainfuck.
< 1275223172 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1275223183 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rofl. I'm going with Cook for the moment... but maybe Alan.
< 1275223189 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel like tributing someone.
< 1275223196 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you have those pipes
< 1275223199 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1275223205 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea is that you can construct /useful/ programs
< 1275223212 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what use do they have
< 1275223221 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :out of a series of running turing machines configured with better IO support.
< 1275223245 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :having data and control are so that raw data can be seperated from control protocols cleanly
< 1275223254 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1275223295 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :define control protocols
< 1275223299 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you mean messaging
< 1275223307 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, I guess semantically system plugs up to an invisible "system" thread that implements a protocol that I've yet to specify, but would allow individual threads to request system information, kill themselves, kill the process, etc... system stuff.
< 1275223312 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, messaging
< 1275223331 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could make libraries out of turing machines... by documenting the protocol they use.
< 1275223342 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and connecting them with your programs.
< 1275223387 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it's not quite like pipes in the sense that you can multiplex... there's nothing forbidding you from having one of your channels being broadcasted to multiple threads
< 1275223428 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, a less useful case, reading a multiplexed stream being send by multiple threads as your input channel
< 1275223434 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sent
< 1275223465 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's kind of like graph instead of a straight line
< 1275223468 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+a
< 1275223470 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ffff
< 1275223548 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :conceivably you could get like GUI support or something. It would be a good way to define an operating system entirely with abstract bf-like turing machines. Actually I think there was a project trying to do just that a while back; maybe  I can borrow some ideas
< 1275223663 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was also considering making the superset of bf I'm using non-deterministic
< 1275223666 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for fun.
< 1275223685 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey.. will bcrypt always generate hashes starting with $2a$? or will it sometimes generate ones starting with $2$?
< 1275223801 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I could not tell you.
< 1275223832 0 :rodgort!~rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275223890 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've always loved old-school internet protocols like TELNET
< 1275223911 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... this is going to be a lot of fun for me. Drafting up protocols to system resources and such
< 1275223961 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could learn MPI and just use tht
< 1275223962 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that
< 1275223976 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then make an erlang-controlled cluster of brainfucks
< 1275223984 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1275224021 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...nah, that doesn't sound as fun
< 1275224135 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's useful and makes for a slim slim slim chance someone else will actually use your shit.
< 1275224141 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is cool.
< 1275224180 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once I finish a naive compiler, I might implement a scheduler that manages a bunch of soft threads. I bet you could actually use source code analysis to devise a very optimal scheduler
< 1275224186 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the source code for bf is so simple.
< 1275224330 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no. I don't really care if it gets used. I just want to see if the inclusion of those three channels, and maybe non-determinism, gives bf more utility.
< 1275224397 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you determine utility through community exposure
< 1275224400 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no other way
< 1275224422 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly.
< 1275224642 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Telnet is barely a protocol
< 1275224660 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this does not negate its awesomeness though.
< 1275224674 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like a meta-protocol, really. It's a way to make agreements about your protocol.
< 1275224712 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Netcat With Bells and Whistles On
< 1275224912 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once I figure out the full specs for this and get a semi-not-embarassing compiler
< 1275224967 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will need to have something to test its utility
< 1275225003 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: You can multipex pipes.
< 1275225015 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just use FIFOs.
< 1275225034 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah, that's how it'll be implemented probably.
< 1275225053 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of FIFOs and arrays.
< 1275225112 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then for the system channel I'll just dump in the runtime code that handles the protocol
< 1275225138 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although you could directly multiplex pipes if you weren't going for portability.
< 1275225164 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1275225183 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to avoid using actual processes
< 1275225283 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the piping semantics will be implemented by the compiler. A bunch of tape arrays and queue arrays with soft threads.
< 1275225313 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think OS threads and processes are too heavyweight to run what easily get up to 20-30 individual turing machines
< 1275225324 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+would
< 1275225731 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now...
< 1275225736 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you wanted to get ridiculous
< 1275225753 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have a channel for each alphabetic character. lowercase is read, uppercase write. :D
< 1275225785 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think there's a word for that. Unecessary.
< 1275225891 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where's alise
< 1275225902 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and oklopol
< 1275226041 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're probably off being cooler than us.
< 1275226063 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as if
< 1275226070 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't be cooler than i
< 1275226079 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's only one person i look up to
< 1275226081 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's myself
< 1275226253 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i'm being totally awesome
< 1275226266 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :been awake for 3.5 hours, done nothing.
< 1275226267 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not being awesome at all
< 1275226282 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: Evidently you live on a torus.
< 1275226377 0 :alise!~alise@91.105.86.86 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275226382 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise
< 1275226393 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have invoked you to tell you exactly one thing
< 1275226397 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it is that lena won eurovision
< 1275226405 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I'm pretty awesome. I'm using a command line IRC client right now.
< 1275226410 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, not CakeProphet
< 1275226416 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can return to your lamp again
< 1275226419 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's on command line, it's immediately cooler than any GUI equivalent
< 1275226440 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what an idiotic thing to say
< 1275226475 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently, i am in a grumpy mood
< 1275226484 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:48:05 <cheater99> hey.. will bcrypt always generate hashes starting with $2a$? or will it sometimes generate ones starting with $2$?
< 1275226488 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...yes, but that's alright.
< 1275226488 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the paper answers that
< 1275226492 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though i do not recall
< 1275226513 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise is always in a grumpy mood.
< 1275226552 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think my first development project for Cook will be an interactive interpreter. Don't even ask me how, but it will be amazing.
< 1275226566 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: bcrypt paper?
< 1275226588 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the .ps i linked you
< 1275226594 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1275226602 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't find it now :))
< 1275226625 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's ok, i save everything i get from you in a personal spot on the hard drive
< 1275226679 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmm.... actually I think I could make a hash table in what is currently Cook/Alan/Drainfuck.
< 1275226695 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :drainfuck is a cool name
< 1275226708 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strainfuck
< 1275226712 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1275226715 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, oklopol
< 1275226718 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lena won eurovision
< 1275226722 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alan sounds the best, to me.
< 1275226724 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IS THAT COOL OR WHAT
< 1275226734 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of boring... but more professional, or something.
< 1275226743 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um.
< 1275226744 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, actually Cook sounds less boring
< 1275226753 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you sound boring
< 1275226754 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right now
< 1275226757 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::<
< 1275226760 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::3
< 1275226806 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: that's so cool
< 1275226847 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... a hash table would actually be kind of hard to do.
< 1275226886 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, i know dude, they should make a dinosaur comic about it
< 1275226918 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would need a hash algorithm process... which would be the easier part I think
< 1275226943 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boring
< 1275226947 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you'd need a generic array process... that allows read/write of a 256-index array through a protocol of some kind.
< 1275226992 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....unfortunately I'm not a very good BF programmer, so I wouldn't even know how to approach most of this.
< 1275227005 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of hacks, I imagine.
< 1275227023 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hacks that export clean interfaces.
< 1275227111 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BF modifications are usually not the most elegant of things.
< 1275227125 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :separate the core concept into its own language.
< 1275227174 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... the core concept is to have a basic turing machine language that can actually do something useful through a well-organized set of protocols and could IO facilities between them.
< 1275227186 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fractran =: (*{~1 i.~[@(=<.)@:*)
< 1275227189 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ fractran interp in J
< 1275227190 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..... good, not could. :P
< 1275227194 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: J is awesome
< 1275227194 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I typo in rhyme now.
< 1275227224 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Adapting BF has the major advantage of giving you a sizeable body of code to use, though.
< 1275227234 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1275227244 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. and , will be the data in/out
< 1275227246 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for that purpose
< 1275227253 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: haha wow you can even enter input in "fraction" form
< 1275227253 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   conwayPrimer =: 17x 78x 19x 23x 29x 77x 95x 77x 1x 11x 13x 15x 15x 55x
< 1275227254 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                 % 91x 85x 51x 38x 33x 29x 23x 19x 17x 13x 11x 14x 2x 1x NB. example program
< 1275227256 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. vertically
< 1275227275 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FRACTRAN is incredibly cool.
< 1275227396 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://1.618034.com/blog_data/math/formula.7231.png ;; the only true way to view fractran programs.
< 1275227421 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that porn
< 1275227423 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want that domain.
< 1275227466 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the golden ratio is a nice number
< 1275227467 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: no.
< 1275227480 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just the output of a latex.php :P
< 1275227487 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is that domain cool
< 1275227489 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which doesn't rule out porn i guess
< 1275227501 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: it's the first digits of the golden ratio
< 1275227509 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o rite
< 1275227522 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as  mathematician i don't memorize numbers sorry
< 1275227646 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... I just got a pretty good idea for a macro language
< 1275227650 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375105820974944
< 1275227658 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION 's cs is showing again
< 1275227683 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1275227694 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you copypasted that
< 1275227722 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1275227725 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from my brain
< 1275227745 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: he didn't, i'm almost certain
< 1275227766 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, i don't remember numbers, but recognising 1.618 is innate if you've ever used the golden ratio...
< 1275227771 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :az if
< 1275227777 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or would you ask what the significance of "3.14.com" is too?
< 1275227781 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i also learned the next 60 or so but i seem to have forgotten them 8|
< 1275227782 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: oklopol is not human
< 1275227782 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I remember that exact amount of digits by heart
< 1275227785 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1275227786 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i probably would
< 1275227805 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you're just a hypercorrecting mathematician trying desperately not to seem like a non-mathematician who uses *NUMBERS!*
< 1275227810 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: that's pretty cool
< 1275227829 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275227862 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that a human being can only know the significance of a finite amount of numbers, the probability that he will know the significance of a random real number is zero.
< 1275227865 0 :CakeProphet!~CakeProph@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275227903 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I was going to give this language macros, complete with parameters and all that
< 1275227924 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I just realized... you could actually make textual substitution operators, and then define some really high-level bf macros
< 1275227930 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: depends on the probability measure
< 1275227941 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like an operator that changes a parameters >'s to <'s
< 1275227958 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, my measure is probably 9"
< 1275227964 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can have a memory location getter as a macro parameter
< 1275227967 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, what's your measure?
< 1275227985 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then use the replace operator to return the code back to its original position before the macro was invoked
< 1275228020 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: do you mean your dick?
< 1275228027 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probabilistically
< 1275228042 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....
< 1275228051 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i consider no measure better than the other, because i'm not a real number enthusiast
< 1275228068 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read: oklopol has a small dick
< 1275228078 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright, here's another thing I was wondering about... ever considered a non-deterministic brainfuck?
< 1275228098 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a lot of use for non-deterministic musical sequencers
< 1275228119 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :write a non-deterministic brainfuck musical sequencer and you'll be an hero
< 1275228123 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-deterministic as in being able to specify branch points
< 1275228123 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my penis is marginally above average in size
< 1275228145 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well length, it's a lot thicker than average i hear
< 1275228145 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can spawn a whole copy of the current state into multiple divergent branches.
< 1275228146 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, average depends on the population
< 1275228150 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really
< 1275228152 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you in asia?
< 1275228163 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, are you saying it's like a soup can?
< 1275228169 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1275228178 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's this old interview with henry rollins
< 1275228184 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric -- a place for serious discussion
< 1275228189 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with some annoying twit asking him stupid questions
< 1275228214 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: what's the j thing for inverting a word
< 1275228224 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't remember that either
< 1275228226 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm getting old
< 1275228227 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he says henry fucked some girl somewhere and she said his dick was like a soup can
< 1275228246 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: 'j'?
< 1275228264 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J_(programming_language)
< 1275228275 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh J
< 1275228276 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1275228305 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn, it's .
< 1275228309 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so ^. is already taken
< 1275228421 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...the > to < idea would actually be pretty cool. You could specify memory locations for a macro to work on. You give it the location relative to your current position, and then it can replace all >'s to < in your macro parameter to refer and return back to its last position
< 1275228432 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The power of this formalism comes from viewing numbers as products of prime powers. For example, if the input is 2x 3y, the following list gives output 5xy, essentially multiplying x by y:
< 1275228435 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this doesn't seem to work :((
< 1275228809 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>700 KiB/s on torrents, man, living near the exchange is awesome
< 1275228897 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1275228952 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote a meta-language that compiles down to Fractran. It allows for functions (simple Fractran and sequences of other functions), and a while loop and if statement (for convenience!). The code for that can be found here.
< 1275228962 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ from the "making of" of the fractran self-interp
< 1275229004 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.math.uiuc.edu/~beder/interpreter.frp fractran interp in it
< 1275229026 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't recommend actually trying to run the Fractran interpreter (alas). I tested many of its components, and, for example, the function IncrementPrimes, which takes a pair of primes and returns the next two primes, takes about 8 minutes to run, using my silly C++ interpreter (no need to post that :). Plus, it goes (at least) quadratically in the number of function calls - doubling the number of function calls makes it take at least four times as long (more
< 1275229027 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if there are while loops or if statements). So I'm guessing that running the interpreter will take at least days, if not years :(
< 1275229034 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't even run 1+1 :)
< 1275229060 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"	
< 1275229061 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@Nick, I figured out the problem - my conversion to Fractran ignored integer overflow (stupid C++). I translated the last step to Python, and re-uploaded the main Fractran code. You'll notice that it's got much bigger numbers! – Jesse Beder Nov 22 '09 at 0:23"
< 1275229062 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe not
< 1275229077 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, there's at least two fractran self-interps
< 1275229116 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1749905/code-golf-fractran/1773868#1773868
< 1275229117 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1749905/code-golf-fractran/1802570#1802570
< 1275229126 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is fractran cool
< 1275229146 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps you should attempt to compile to Haskell for efficiency. -sagenod-
< 1275229182 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: always a good idea
< 1275229190 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: because fuck you if you don't think it is
< 1275229207 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes pls
< 1275229209 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no.
< 1275229211 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION grabs the loob
< 1275229220 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no what?
< 1275229225 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're the one making promises
< 1275229232 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :promises in love you can't hold :-(
< 1275229243 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: without wanting to get fucked... what does it let you do?
< 1275229254 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/Fractran
< 1275229260 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conway made it, it's awesome, nuff said
< 1275229271 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody is at any risk of being fucked.
< 1275229274 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too much math for my tastes.
< 1275229277 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it looks neat.
< 1275229291 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish my browser would run efficiently
< 1275229296 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :needs moar threads.
< 1275229296 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but unfortunately it is firefox
< 1275229305 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too much math? Seriously?
< 1275229311 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gtfo
< 1275229312 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...well, arithmetic
< 1275229317 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of.
< 1275229321 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you fail
< 1275229321 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :manual calculating of things
< 1275229331 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :complete faelure
< 1275229332 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: i'm web 2 point izzo so i chromium in your face :|
< 1275229338 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a programmer... I write programs to do that.
< 1275229341 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: yeah we don't have computers to run programs any more
< 1275229344 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after the great War
< 1275229352 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :between Machines and the People
< 1275229355 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: is chromium faster for facebook than firefox is?
< 1275229368 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: chromium is faster than * than firefox is
< 1275229376 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := chrome if you're not on loonix
< 1275229383 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chrome is in general faster for everything. Though the linux release is occasionally buggy.
< 1275229386 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am, that's my problem
< 1275229390 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :firefox isn't that gay on windows
< 1275229407 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because bartab actually works
< 1275229410 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: i'm using the linux release
< 1275229410 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but on linux it doesn't seem to.
< 1275229411 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no probs at all
< 1275229421 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: ok... so i get the awesomeness, or at least, i get parts of it... but i can't get a feel for program flow
< 1275229423 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it was the beta that was buggy. Imagine that
< 1275229430 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pineapple: well it's not easy :P
< 1275229432 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been running fine for me as well... now.
< 1275229470 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: i get that feeling about most esolangs :-(
< 1275229569 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION will need to practice with bf in order to make bitchin' libraries for whatever-this-language-is-going-to-be-called
< 1275229588 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you considered anotherderivativefuck
< 1275229603 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
< 1275229613 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, no *fucks
< 1275229626 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean... I wouldn't make it a derivative
< 1275229637 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainboringderivative has a pun in it too?
< 1275229639 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's sort of the whole point. Unless I can find another way to make a really simple turing machine.
< 1275229658 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can make a reeeeally simple turing machine
< 1275229670 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :consider the turing machine that never does anything
< 1275229685 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's pretty simple huh
< 1275229688 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it halt?
< 1275229712 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1275229713 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :always
< 1275229730 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you be sure? :3
< 1275229792 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah... would anyone like to help me figure out how an NP-fuck would work?
< 1275229852 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1275229857 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there'd be a bracket structure to specify two or more branch points...and some way to indicate success
< 1275229863 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? puts a random number 0-255 on the tape
< 1275229872 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...that's not what I mean by non-deterministic
< 1275229873 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when a ! is encountered the cell must be nonempty
< 1275229901 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well obviously i mean the nondeterministic kind of random
< 1275229903 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1275229923 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P but I mean the NP-complete kind of non-deterministic
< 1275229953 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's it, although you may want to hone it a bit
< 1275229984 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically all you need is to be able to say "take any element of this set" "at this point you need to have chosen such elements from sets that property X is true"
< 1275230001 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1275230004 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bartab wasn't on
< 1275230012 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone here use massive amounts of tabs in their browser?
< 1275230016 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like say 300 per window?
< 1275230026 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically the program will continue running an all paths, and we say it runs in time n if the longest run of all those branches is of length n
< 1275230043 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you would need a way to specify a branch point right? I thought you left that out.
< 1275230067 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's ?
< 1275230080 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :drop something on the tape that makes sure the next ! doesn't fail
< 1275230082 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....255 branches?
< 1275230083 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or any !
< 1275230090 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er... 6
< 1275230094 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well 256, but that doesn't really matter
< 1275230095 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1275230102 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oklopol> when a ! is encountered the cell must be nonempty
< 1275230105 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't know cells could be empty
< 1275230105 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do 0/1 but i'd use a binary tape then too
< 1275230106 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_>
< 1275230106 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's pretty ridiculous
< 1275230118 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<cheater99> does anyone here use massive amounts of tabs in their browser?
< 1275230124 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about 15-20-30 tabs per window, about 10 windows
< 1275230127 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it grows...
< 1275230131 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then my browser freezes and i start again
< 1275230132 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't care if it's ridiculous, i just care if it's pure and beautiful
< 1275230157 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could you solve an NP-complete somewhat sanely with that?
< 1275230169 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: get bartab for firefox
< 1275230179 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: no because it will be NP
< 1275230182 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: it swaps out any tab you don't look at for t time
< 1275230185 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and P=NP hasn't been solved yet :P
< 1275230188 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, say given an instance of sat you just go over the cells representing the variables
< 1275230195 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: and you can make a whitelist too
< 1275230198 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you run a program that fails if it's not satisfied
< 1275230198 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: no i use chromium and I like having so many useless tabs
< 1275230204 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: yet. I'm still working on it. :P
< 1275230204 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need window gc though :P
< 1275230207 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: it is the most amazing firefox plugin ever conceived by man.
< 1275230209 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want that million dollar prize.
< 1275230213 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: well if you don't like mathematics...
< 1275230214 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go over the cells representing variables, and use ? to drop some value for them
< 1275230223 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: "good luck"
< 1275230229 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to solve the riemann hypothesis
< 1275230230 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one day
< 1275230231 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: make it a metacity plugin and i'm in
< 1275230240 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i want to solve the fucking goldbach and collatz conjectures with the same proof
< 1275230240 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can solve any problem in NP in polynomial time with that
< 1275230243 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: no idea wtf's metacity
< 1275230246 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and get a unicorn
< 1275230251 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: gnome's window manager
< 1275230263 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically it's emerald i guess since ubuntu enables compiz...
< 1275230269 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, ah okay... so ! will terminate branches that don't satisfy the condition.... and you can proceed from there. I like that.
< 1275230273 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1275230276 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 256 branches is still pretty ridiculous
< 1275230285 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's a good thing I guess.
< 1275230285 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :althought you don't think of them as branches in math
< 1275230292 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*although
< 1275230305 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....that's why I'm better at programming than math. :P
< 1275230310 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just think of it as a different kind of computation in which you can guess stuff correctly
< 1275230315 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1275230333 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyway for many purposes the branching characterization is best
< 1275230339 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always think of it as branching, as its slightly easier to understand I think.
< 1275230372 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok guise
< 1275230381 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't have www axs right now
< 1275230389 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the magic formula for insert ... on duplicate key update?
< 1275230403 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm trying to do 'insert into dupkey (id, val) values (1, 'hi') on duplicate key update;' but it doesn't work :(
< 1275230407 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? - picks the number(s) you're looking for
< 1275230424 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: the other useful way is to think in terms of witnesses, sometimes, basically that you need to be able to check solutions to some puzzle or something
< 1275230432 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :! - kills your program if its wrong.
< 1275230446 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pls help
< 1275230450 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pls help
< 1275230466 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can "solve" a problem in NP if given *some* infinite sequence (or bounded if you like) you can use it to solve the problem in P
< 1275230478 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: #sql or sth
< 1275230492 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, be a darling and look it up plox
< 1275230503 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1275230507 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: i just got trolled in #mysql because someone doesn't know the difference between the www and the internet
< 1275230517 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop using mysql
< 1275230525 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not me using it
< 1275230528 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's someone else using it
< 1275230547 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, so... if you had a arbitrary number of non-deterministic brainfuck derivitives with two input instructions and two output structures.... could you sanely implement an interface to a hash table?
< 1275230564 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<cheater99> i don't have www access this very second... what's that magic formula for insert .. on duplicate key update? <threnody> cheater99: you're on irc <cheater99> threnody, are you saying i should be trying this in a mysql client and then it'll work?<threnody> cheater99: you are connected to the internet
< 1275230565 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<cheater99> yes
< 1275230565 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<cheater99> the internet is not the www
< 1275230565 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<cheater99> i hope you realize this now that i pointed it out
< 1275230591 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google banned him from www
< 1275230812 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, the interface is simple enough... you'd just have a protocol that had a start and end delimeter for th  string key, and the string data would go inbetween. You'd have a lock operator so you could lock the hash tables channel while you input your string... and it would merrily chug out the value from the hash table in the data channel
< 1275230910 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hash table itself, of course, would just be sitting on the a tape somewhere, with a hash function either seperately implemented in a different thread or in the same one if you're a badass bf hacker (which I'm not)
< 1275230917 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jhsdjfhsdfhsdf
< 1275230969 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have faith in you
< 1275230977 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rofl
< 1275231033 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my goal is to make it self-interpreting... and then write an IRC bot that could dynamically load in processes into its runtime environment and connect them dynamically. This is incredibly impossible though
< 1275231057 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a simple IRC bot would be feasible, as would some kind of interpreter... but not both, at once, dynamically
< 1275231269 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interpet NP with a P P NP
< 1275231474 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.....a what?
< 1275231518 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a yes
< 1275231521 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a yse yse yes
< 1275231523 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yse yes yse
< 1275231532 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rofl. okay.
< 1275231625 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION will specify integers in base 256 and provide a standard library fr manipulating them :)
< 1275232041 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fractran is listed as TC on the wiki; is there any proof?
< 1275232050 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I think there was an interpreter for some non-Fractran language
< 1275232051 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe not
< 1275232076 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... conway's game of life is turing complete
< 1275232080 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore.... PROFIT
< 1275232086 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can compile minsky machines to fractran pretty easily i think
< 1275232092 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<end proof>
< 1275232116 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've seen some of the gol gadgets
< 1275232127 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has everyone seen the computer in GoL?
< 1275232158 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i've seen the utm
< 1275232171 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i haven't really given it much scrutiny
< 1275232215 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.rendell-attic.org/gol/tm.htm
< 1275232218 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this ridiculousness
< 1275232268 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't even ask me how it works.
< 1275232275 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of glider guns.
< 1275232287 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.rendell-attic.org/gol/utm/picture.htm utm
< 1275232351 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes probably 99% of that is just wire
< 1275232355 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow
< 1275232363 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an even better version
< 1275232374 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's the utm, the first one is just some random turing machine
< 1275232402 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard to tell much from the pics, because i don't recognize the purpose of anything but gliders
< 1275232405 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<CakeProphet> well... conway's game of life is turing complete
< 1275232409 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :proof by conway?
< 1275232431 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: the tm is boring, the UTM + universal constructor is more interesting
< 1275232441 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ the self-replicating-and-destroying computer spaceship (discovered recently; HUGE period)
< 1275232449 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ lightspeed communication with agars :)
< 1275232527 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and no... I was referring to the TM implementation
< 1275232537 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so? fractran != GoL
< 1275232543 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.......
< 1275232548 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes.
< 1275232552 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think my humor was lost.
< 1275232562 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in logic.
< 1275232636 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's okay
< 1275232669 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1275232762 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the people who made this UTM should get a prize or something.
< 1275232808 0 :hiato!~fdulu@41-132-16-205.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275232842 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise
< 1275232861 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What?
< 1275232863 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember how i said i would write dinosaur comics that they should make a comic about Lena
< 1275232870 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no.
< 1275232879 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i'm just reminding you of this
< 1275232884 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why should i care
< 1275232895 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will be key in understanding what happens during the rest of your life
< 1275232904 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. No it will not.
< 1275232919 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :denial.. sweet, sweet denial :)
< 1275232955 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're more than a little creepy :)
< 1275232970 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1275233038 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eeeeeveryone is creepy in their own way
< 1275233093 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well...
< 1275233099 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a pretty unusual crowd.
< 1275233114 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have far more tabs than the average person open at a given time, apparently.
< 1275233129 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have one!
< 1275233137 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is only running 9 right now. Had several more when he was learning how to identify and pick mushrooms.
< 1275233154 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yeah but you also have your windows set to entirely white consolas on black
< 1275233158 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i used to have like 50 million on average but i guess the internet is less interesting nowadays
< 1275233163 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the windows theme to every single page in IE
< 1275233165 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have two
< 1275233169 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically you're not normal :D
< 1275233180 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: actually currently i don't because i've switched computers, maybe that's why i'm not using internet much
< 1275233184 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should get the theme back
< 1275233184 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!!!
< 1275233191 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: how could you abandon my work
< 1275233199 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my computer went boom
< 1275233202 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was like the most awesome windows could possibly get
< 1275233203 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks everything has a better UI when it's done in ncurses
< 1275233206 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: but you still have the files right???
< 1275233212 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: yes, poor imitations of GUIs >>>> GUIs.
< 1275233220 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you like command-line stuff at least respect what a command-line program is
< 1275233229 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: maybe. if i get it unboomed for long enough to get them
< 1275233231 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I don't actually like command line stuff
< 1275233233 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. NOT a W.I.M.P. user interface
< 1275233238 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my old client was attached to firefox, which I no longer use
< 1275233246 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I downloaded this thing for convenience
< 1275233251 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so far I like it.
< 1275233265 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me guess irssi
< 1275233275 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either that or weechat
< 1275233280 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's called "pork" actually.
< 1275233304 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I searched "irc client" in apt-cache... it was the first one to come up. :)
< 1275233314 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pork.
< 1275233315 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see.
< 1275233318 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: just use irssi.
< 1275233323 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it better?
< 1275233336 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's probably the most popular IRC client.
< 1275233337 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apart from mIRC.
< 1275233351 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's good.
< 1275233363 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although if you like the ircII style maybe this "pork" thing which I looked up is better.
< 1275233368 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could just use BitchX though
< 1275233387 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/61/Debianwithgnomedesktop.png Hey, pork on BitchX's wiki page.
< 1275233387 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chatzilla was the shit... it should be standalone
< 1275233406 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is
< 1275233409 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it apparently has perl scripting or some nonsense
< 1275233413 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://chatzilla.rdmsoft.com/xulrunner/
< 1275233422 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried it earlier but it segfaulted, decided not to try again.
< 1275233430 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just use XChat.
< 1275233437 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(customised to not look like shit)
< 1275233440 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might have something to do with me knowing absolutely nothing about perl
< 1275233482 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: my present IRC vehicle: http://imgur.com/herQr.png
< 1275233508 0 :adam__!~adam@h10.59.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275233513 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: i <3 pork (http://dev.ojnk.net)
< 1275233518 0 :adam__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :CakeProphet
< 1275233525 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host
< 1275233525 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275233531 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bam.
< 1275233536 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y hlod'r?
< 1275233539 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wuts.
< 1275233551 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....wtf did you just say?
< 1275233579 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Why hello there"
< 1275233600 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're almost exactly the same in interface.
< 1275233623 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but /help is not doing anything
< 1275233647 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irssi you mean?
< 1275233650 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1275233657 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try alt-1
< 1275233659 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then alt-2 to get back
< 1275233663 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(esc 1/esc 2 if that doesn't work)
< 1275233690 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I didn't read the second bit about alt-2 before I did alt-1
< 1275233697 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I kind of caught the pattern, I guess.
< 1275233708 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...not a bad system.
< 1275233757 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it's one channel per window type dealie
< 1275233759 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you close a "tab"?
< 1275233765 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think /w works, I forget
< 1275233770 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is it /wc?
< 1275233781 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, pgup/pgdwn work, and I think alt-pgup/pgdwn work too
< 1275233784 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe alt-left/right, I forget
< 1275233786 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or alt-p/n
< 1275233834 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alt-left/right work
< 1275233985 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of a monolithic system message handler thing
< 1275234033 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might allow C code to wrap some low-level stuff and then have bindings to said code
< 1275234114 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as much as like data-based protocols.
< 1275234119 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for everything.
< 1275234344 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.rickadams.org/adventure/maps/adv_3.gif
< 1275234373 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: have you read knuth's literate programming version of ADVENT?
< 1275234375 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's quite nice
< 1275234396 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1275234399 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.literateprogramming.com/adventure.pdf
< 1275234399 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got a link?
< 1275234405 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :l@@king
< 1275234417 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw
< 1275234427 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know what version the linux 'adventure' is?
< 1275234436 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in bsd-games i think
< 1275234444 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsd-games package
< 1275234450 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good point
< 1275234451 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*question
< 1275234480 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275234530 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In 1977, Jim Gillogly of the RAND Corporation spent several weeks porting the code from FORTRAN to C under Unix, with the agreement of both Woods and Crowther. It can be found as part of the BSD Operating Systems distributions, or as part of the "bsdgames" package under most Linux distributions, under the command name "adventure".
< 1275234532 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: ^
< 1275234534 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the same one in that pdf
< 1275234636 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...how do you scroll in this client?
< 1275234645 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... nvm
< 1275234646 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shift + pgup/dn?
< 1275234651 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just page up/down
< 1275234666 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: how do i use evince for pdf?
< 1275234670 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is confused about linux
< 1275234674 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: double click the pdf
< 1275234675 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey CakeProphet
< 1275234692 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :long time no see, i think
< 1275234697 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan:  Hey. and yes, indeed.
< 1275234705 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it says
< 1275234710 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'file type pdf is not supported'
< 1275234721 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got an idea for a bf-like language and decided it would be opportune to start visiting this channel again.
< 1275234724 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: umm what distro are you using
< 1275234789 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/984342.txt?key=9f9cibbfzj1vkxyfj2blsq Some nondeterministic sketches; array selection and superpositions.
< 1275234795 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i note a disturbing relapse to latin-1 in the irc logs lately
< 1275234811 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the server sends no encoding headers
< 1275234814 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's up to your browser to guess
< 1275234820 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: no
< 1275234822 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we really need a nice log interface
< 1275234824 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever since ircbrowse died...
< 1275234853 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: i mean that people are actually _sending_ latin-1 in many cases
< 1275234860 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1275234862 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch
< 1275234900 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's been so long I've forgotten the standard bot command character
< 1275234911 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm quite used to adjusting my browser whenever it guesses the logs wrong
< 1275234915 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot is rewritten
< 1275234917 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it uses !
< 1275234922 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo is a free-for-all sandboxed shell
< 1275234928 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It uses `, with `run foo running a shell command with multiple args.
< 1275234933 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot is written in Befunge.
< 1275234933 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: check this out at the grocery store before it closes. :( making this crypto. just
< 1275234934 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^show
< 1275234934 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo reverb rev rot13 rev2 fib wc ul cho choo pow2 source help hw srmlebac uenlsbcmra scramble unscramble
< 1275234939 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^source
< 1275234939 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98
< 1275234939 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...oh shit
< 1275234944 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do all these new bots do?
< 1275234946 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ubuntu
< 1275234949 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It babbles, interprets Brainfuck and Underload, and does so many other things.
< 1275234954 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's written in Befunge-98; have a click.
< 1275234957 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that's all our bots.
< 1275234964 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: what did you DO?
< 1275234967 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and screenshot the error
< 1275234972 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help
< 1275234973 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help <command>.
< 1275234975 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmmm
< 1275234981 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help languages
< 1275234981 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh.
< 1275234993 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: nothing ;(
< 1275234993 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98
< 1275234994 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: i guess drscheme has more bizarre limits on the number of legitimate e-mail.
< 1275234996 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should borrow #haskell's bot
< 1275234998 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot is by far our most impressive bot
< 1275234998 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: what was the name
< 1275235000 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty awesome.
< 1275235002 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: we did have lambdabot for a while
< 1275235009 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: you even do multiple styles:
< 1275235010 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: according to one's intuition of the shapes formed by quenching the metal in cold water. you would not have bothered to help an fnord archive.
< 1275235010 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style
< 1275235010 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc* jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube
< 1275235014 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style alice
< 1275235014 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: alice (Books by Lewis Carroll)
< 1275235016 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: In wonderland.
< 1275235017 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: EgoBot does haskell though not as conveniently as lambdabot
< 1275235021 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: yo yo talk
< 1275235024 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ping fungot plz
< 1275235026 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!echo fungot
< 1275235029 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot
< 1275235029 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot
< 1275235029 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: the knight looked surprised at the question. " if i was oo," said arthur, looking at the house, from below, and pulled down by some one on the planet. then of course the house goes faster than its natural rate of falling: but the snark exclaimed " fnord!"
< 1275235037 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style irc
< 1275235037 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams)
< 1275235039 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..oh god
< 1275235059 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If any esolang enthusiast doesn't go into a state of awe upon seeing http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98 after seeing what it can do... they have no soul.
< 1275235060 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: it means ' fnord' and lots of drugs
< 1275235066 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Precisely, fungot. Precisely.
< 1275235067 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: it's just so stupid that ' stty erase h' has to be a
< 1275235089 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no soul
< 1275235121 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We already knew that -- you implemented the engine upon which fungot sits.
< 1275235122 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: if not, you're intricately tied to the parser is very simple
< 1275235125 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is it still cfunge nowadays?
< 1275235140 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAIK yes
< 1275235151 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....I can't read that file at all
< 1275235156 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls bin
< 1275235158 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Does it look like noise?
< 1275235161 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know very very little about Befunge over than it's 2d
< 1275235163 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: that's because it's befunge-98 :P
< 1275235174 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1275235175 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P  (don't remember how to do that nonsense with IRC commands)
< 1275235178 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1275235179 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Well -98 is the horribly twisted sequel to Befunge with fingerprints (libraries, basically, so there's socket support and much much more),
< 1275235180 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls
< 1275235185 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: and also far more complex & advanced semantics
< 1275235192 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and bignums, the stack is replaced by a stack of multiple stacks,
< 1275235199 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and near-infinitely-sized fungespace...
< 1275235203 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1275235205 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, limited by bit size)
< 1275235207 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so much more.
< 1275235209 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ls
< 1275235224 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo: you're broken
< 1275235225 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1275235229 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something fierce
< 1275235229 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1275235232 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i broke it yesterdya
< 1275235234 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*yesterday
< 1275235236 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by asking for too many quotes :D
< 1275235246 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo *
< 1275235262 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1275235268 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help
< 1275235269 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
< 1275235273 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok that works
< 1275235283 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it's the shell part that's broken
< 1275235285 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert
< 1275235286 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done.
< 1275235293 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing happened
< 1275235293 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ls
< 1275235297 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also hey don't revert my quote :P
< 1275235302 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: oh yeah and HackEgo, when it's working, is our official quote database
< 1275235310 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1275235321 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :filled with 90% stuff here, 8% stupid stuff from sine, and 2% stuff that isn't actually quotes at all, or at least not from around here
< 1275235331 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the revert didn't work btw
< 1275235336 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1275235342 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all fucked
< 1275235346 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well
< 1275235355 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 days	HackBot	branch merge
< 1275235360 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe this update introduced a bug of some sort?
< 1275235362 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming it's an update.
< 1275235389 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm thinking instead of using a straight-up bf-like syntax
< 1275235397 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to make what is essentially a usable bf
< 1275235404 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or moderately more usable bf
< 1275235411 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with commands that take parameters and such
< 1275235471 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and maybe even integer and character literals if I'm feeling crazy
< 1275235489 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: HackEgo also uses to have useful ways to lookup things on the web (google etc.) although some of them are broken too
< 1275235513 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot is the one with lots of esolangs, including ones we've added ourselves
< 1275235521 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always thought an I'm feeling lucky command would be useful... to link people to things quickly
< 1275235529 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. I remember EgoBot. :)
< 1275235546 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help languages
< 1275235547 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh.
< 1275235552 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: as alise said, it's been majorly rewritten.
< 1275235558 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help userinterps
< 1275235558 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :glass was always one of my favorites.
< 1275235559 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :userinterps: Users can add interpreters written in any of the languages in !help languages. See !help addinterp, delinterp, show | !userinterps. List interpreters added with !addinterp.
< 1275235574 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!userinterps
< 1275235574 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Installed user interpreters: aol austro b1ff bc bct bfbignum brit brooklyn bypass_ignore bytes chaos chef chiqrsx9p choo cockney ctcp dc drawl drome dubya echo eehird ehird fudd funetak google graph gregor hello id jethro kraut num ook pansy pirate plot postmodern postmodern_aoler redneck reverse rot13 sadbf sfedeesh sffedeesh sffffedeesh sffffffffedeesh slashes svedeesh swedish valspeak warez yodawg
< 1275235576 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :......interpreter adding?
< 1275235590 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does that work?
< 1275235604 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell  print "lol whut?"
< 1275235611 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"lol whut?"
< 1275235612 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you add the code for your interpreter in one of the !languages
< 1275235621 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it doesn't recurse alas)
< 1275235630 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no recursion at all?
< 1275235636 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1275235644 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean you cannot add userinterps based on userinterps
< 1275235649 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh.
< 1275235670 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay... so you define an interpreter in another language that it knows?
< 1275235676 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds wonderfully efficient. :P
< 1275235681 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is
< 1275235682 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it knows c
< 1275235687 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using gcc
< 1275235688 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... well okay.
< 1275235693 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even asm :P
< 1275235696 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's pretty sweet then.
< 1275235705 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to learn my ASM.
< 1275235722 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and by learn ASM I really mean memorize an instruction set.
< 1275235722 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of those userinterps are just language garbling...
< 1275235730 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks for sgeo's quote file
< 1275235733 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hackego's quotes in a text file)
< 1275235734 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!swedish I am the swedish chef.
< 1275235735 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I em zee svedeesh cheff.  Bork Bork Bork!
< 1275235743 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!userinterps
< 1275235743 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Installed user interpreters: aol austro b1ff bc bct bfbignum brit brooklyn bypass_ignore bytes chaos chef chiqrsx9p choo cockney ctcp dc drawl drome dubya echo eehird ehird fudd funetak google graph gregor hello id jethro kraut num ook pansy pirate plot postmodern postmodern_aoler redneck reverse rot13 sadbf sfedeesh sffedeesh sffffedeesh sffffffffedeesh slashes svedeesh swedish valspeak warez yodawg
< 1275235746 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!adduserinterps
< 1275235750 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that would be dependent on Normish still existing
< 1275235760 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp
< 1275235760 0 :uorygl!~Warrigal@rrcs-70-63-156-144.midsouth.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275235760 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is already an interpreter for !
< 1275235765 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: oh
< 1275235815 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll see what I can do
< 1275235835 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no piglatin? I am disappoint. :(
< 1275235836 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: the source can be a url, so the interpreters don't need to fit in one line.  also if you !show them, you need DCC CHAT to get the whole thing
< 1275235841 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't there a site which runs a little web page for you in a sandbox or something?
< 1275235843 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with some scripting language
< 1275235846 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure there is...
< 1275235849 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait
< 1275235855 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can use egobot to generate a file with hackego's quotes!
< 1275235857 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now someone do that
< 1275235876 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has a free webpage provided by his university. Could host interpreters there.
< 1275235888 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i theoretically still have that vps
< 1275235889 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: i'm not sure, Gregor named those language garblers rather weirdly, not as usual
< 1275235889 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1275235900 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ix-nay on the atin-lay
< 1275235904 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only interpreter I have is one for BF written in Haskell.. which is hardly necessary.
< 1275235920 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's from some old unix/linux joke package i think)
< 1275235933 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1275235933 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :updating poppler workd
< 1275235934 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i can evince a pdf
< 1275235943 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... it would be amazing if it could handle language imports through URL
< 1275235955 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so like... I could put the Python interpreter on my web page and load it in. :P
< 1275235977 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just write a haskell progam and compile it >_>
< 1275235978 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*program
< 1275235983 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or use that py2binary thing
< 1275235999 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I'm far too lazy to actual make my own Python interpreter
< 1275236006 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant the actual one written in C
< 1275236018 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...i never suggested that
< 1275236019 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: that might be a bit too large.  it does afaik recompile every userinterpreter whenever you use it
< 1275236026 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is?
< 1275236038 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay... that's why it's kind of slow it seems.
< 1275236057 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or pass it to the underlying language interpreter, to be precise)
< 1275236103 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: you _should_ be able to do that with HackEgo, if it were working
< 1275236123 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  oh, you're saying I should  compile the python interpreter and then have a script that invokes it.
< 1275236128 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no.
< 1275236134 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: although that would work.
< 1275236144 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: but really, all you need to do is use one of those python to binary bundlers
< 1275236146 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that bundles the interp in
< 1275236147 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who will guess what i am having a sandwich with
< 1275236152 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: binaries can be cgis too you know
< 1275236156 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OR, just write it in haskell and compile that.
< 1275236166 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know py2exe would just bundle the interpreter standalone.
< 1275236200 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does
< 1275236211 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes an exe
< 1275236211 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :py2exe is justwindows only isn't it
< 1275236213 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*is windows
< 1275236217 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure there's a linux equiv
< 1275236232 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use wine
< 1275236238 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run sqlite3 quotes/quote.db VACUUM
< 1275236245 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: not on shared hosting...
< 1275236254 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1275236255 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just upload a linux python binary + invoke it with a shell script cgi if that's the case
< 1275236262 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python's hardly worth the trouble though... unless I expand a { } ; version of the syntax first before I run the interpreter
< 1275236272 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh :(:(:(:(
< 1275236297 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: ?
< 1275236299 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :egobot accepts urls
< 1275236303 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!python http://google.com
< 1275236306 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1275236307 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no python
< 1275236308 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c http://google.com
< 1275236313 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does not compile.
< 1275236323 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that loaded http://google.com and interpreted it as c source
< 1275236326 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: so that I can use {}'s instead of indents on a single line
< 1275236332 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do that?
< 1275236336 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you mean
< 1275236339 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to make a !python command
< 1275236339 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ic
< 1275236342 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right.
< 1275236343 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my bot had that once
< 1275236344 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was great
< 1275236345 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worked perfectly
< 1275236354 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :; to newline (so it worked for control structures), { and } worked to adjust indent
< 1275236357 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could say
< 1275236364 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually what I'd do is expand a special {} syntax... and then plug that in as input to an interactive version of Python
< 1275236371 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can get state between lines.
< 1275236372 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :def fact(n): { if n == 0: { return 1 } else: { return n * fact(n-1) } }
< 1275236378 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i called it braces or something
< 1275236390 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...that was some fast programming. :P
< 1275236390 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: i just ran it through the evaluator
< 1275236395 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worked fine
< 1275236402 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it can handle multiline stuff
< 1275236406 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also handled expressions though
< 1275236408 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and printed their output
< 1275236410 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was a very clever evaluator
< 1275236415 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: i know factorial off by heart...
< 1275236420 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah, me too
< 1275236427 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can't type braces very quickly.
< 1275236438 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am having a sandwich with quadruple, that's right, QUAD bacon.
< 1275236460 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: shift [ ]
< 1275236461 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1275236486 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I type weird.
< 1275236493 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fast for regular characters, but shifting takes a long time.
< 1275236531 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's normal??
< 1275236579 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  hmmm, yeah to choose whether or not to print-eval or exec... you could check for python keywords.
< 1275236582 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the beginning
< 1275236587 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: nope
< 1275236597 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? something fancier?
< 1275236598 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: i ran it as an expression first, and if it gave a syntax error as a statement iirc
< 1275236599 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something
< 1275236603 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaah, okay.
< 1275236604 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i checked the syntax error twice
< 1275236604 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that works too
< 1275236609 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't recall exactly how
< 1275236612 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it was v. clever code
< 1275236617 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did what you wanted all the time
< 1275236625 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there was one thing I'd change I'd make { add a : before it
< 1275236627 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: { looks weird
< 1275236633 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1275236637 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :def fact(n) { if n == 0 { return 1 } else { return n * fact(n-1) } } would be nicer
< 1275236644 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh, now I'm obligated to write it again
< 1275236646 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DAMNN YOUUU
< 1275236648 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I wish I still remembered glass.
< 1275236651 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: it even handled {} in strings and stuff
< 1275236656 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the useless enterprise solution!
< 1275236661 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no the esolang
< 1275236665 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!glass jsdfjsdf
< 1275236666 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK
< 1275236673 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...don't even remember anything.
< 1275236677 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TO GOOGLE
< 1275236693 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to esolangs.org
< 1275236697 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know what you meant
< 1275236722 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same thing
< 1275236727 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google is the root of the internet tree.
< 1275236794 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!glass {M[m"Hello, World!"]}
< 1275236838 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh...
< 1275236839 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1275236842 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of stuff I forgot
< 1275236889 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!glass {M[m(out)O!"Hello, World!"(output)o.?]}
< 1275236896 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!glass {M[m(out)O!"Hello, World!"(out)o.?]}
< 1275236896 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, World!
< 1275236899 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bam!
< 1275236933 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obfuscated stack-based OO at its finest
< 1275237016 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stack-based languages are one of my favorite language designs
< 1275237114 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you wanted to get fancy with the interpreter you could have like a hook-interface so that interpreters could keep track of state and give you a list of its global namespace... if it has such a thing.
< 1275237170 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does it do input?
< 1275237203 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cleverly
< 1275237243 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I class
< 1275237244 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!glass {M[m(out)O!(math)A!22(math)a.?(out)o.?]}
< 1275237252 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!glass {M[m(out)O!(math)A!22(math)a.?(out)(on).?]}
< 1275237253 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0
< 1275237256 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.....
< 1275237258 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no.
< 1275237262 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.1010wins.com/Desperately-Seeking-Sailor/7355267
< 1275237266 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is this news?
< 1275237282 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!glass {M[m(out)O!(math)A!<2><2>(math)a.?(out)(on).?]}
< 1275237282 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4
< 1275237287 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :local news
< 1275237288 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything is news
< 1275237290 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go. 2+2 is definitely 4
< 1275237301 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: phew
< 1275237304 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was worried there for a minute
< 1275237339 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION unstickies his v key
< 1275237349 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think a made a piglatin program in Glass once
< 1275237351 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should have kept it.
< 1275237354 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*I
< 1275237366 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the quick brown fox jumps over the brown dog.
< 1275237385 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!glass {M[m(_s)S!(_o)0O!o.<34>(_s)(ns).?"{M[m(_s)S!(_o)0O!o.<34>(_s)(ns).?""14?24?14?24?24?04?24?04?]}"14?24?14?24?24?04?24?04?]}
< 1275237386 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{M[m(_s)S!(_o)0O!o.<34>(_s)(ns).?"{M[m(_s)S!(_o)0O!o.<34>(_s)(ns).?""14?24?14?24?24?04?24?04?]}"14?24?14?24?24?04?24?04?]}
< 1275237392 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should have said "jumped" to see alise's reaction
< 1275237402 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....awesome.
< 1275237405 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: why?
< 1275237416 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan:  hmmm... let me see if I can decipher
< 1275237452 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay... you play with the stack
< 1275237455 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of
< 1275237495 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....okay, yeah. I can't follow.
< 1275237501 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm too sleep deprived, I think.
< 1275237510 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has forgotten how he did it, anyhow
< 1275237543 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but presumably i put the necessary strings on the stack, + the output function
< 1275237570 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah.
< 1275237590 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4? means output the string on top of stack
< 1275237595 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first Quine I figured out was in Python... but Python makes it too easy.
< 1275237612 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... that's not what it means by itsel I don't think.
< 1275237614 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well glass wasn't too hard either
< 1275237625 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!glass {M[m3?]}
< 1275237631 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, but given that the output function is in the right place
< 1275237639 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... its an index.
< 1275237669 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always forget that numbers are enclosed with <> and a number by itself is a stack position
< 1275237677 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the stack is <output function> <" character> <first substring> <second substring>
< 1275237684 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, those listings in that pdf are absolutely unintelligible for me.
< 1275237692 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: which listings
< 1275237693 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which pdf?
< 1275237744 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adventure
< 1275237799 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275237837 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Briefly sum up what you have been talking about without using the letter 'r'.
< 1275237854 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nonsense as usual
< 1275237866 0 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275237878 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoove: the last thing was my glass quine
< 1275237880 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me see if I can remember how to do the Python quine without google.
< 1275237881 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@bas5-toronto47-1088893966.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275237886 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: unintelligible how?
< 1275237890 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't understand them?
< 1275237903 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, quines.
< 1275237925 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have been talking about things; mostly of an unusual nature; esolangs indeed.
< 1275237929 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ no r
< 1275237940 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats alise -----###
< 1275237943 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :natu_r_e
< 1275237993 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> print (lambda s: s%s)('print (lambda s: s%%s)(%r))')
< 1275237994 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :print (lambda s: s%s)('print (lambda s: s%%s)(%r))'))
< 1275238004 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....no
< 1275238010 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Lisp quine is pretty nice.
< 1275238014 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1275238019 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's one too many parens
< 1275238027 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it returns a sexp, rather than printing a string
< 1275238029 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!lisp
< 1275238039 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((lambda (x) (list x `(quote ,x))) '(lambda (x) (list x `(quote ,x))))
< 1275238043 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, more traditionally
< 1275238046 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :print (lambda s: s%s)('print (lambda s: s%%s)(%r)")
< 1275238049 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather
< 1275238052 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without symbols
< 1275238067 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((lambda (x) (list x (list (quote quote) x))) (lambda (x) (list x (list (quote quote) x))))
< 1275238070 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or concisely
< 1275238076 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :python's % operator makes it way too easy to do with a continuation
< 1275238084 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell main=putStrLn$s++show s where s="main=putStrLn$s++show s where s="
< 1275238085 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((lambda (x) `(,x ',x)) (lambda (x) `(,x ',x)))
< 1275238092 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main=putStrLn$s++show s where s="main=putStrLn$s++show s where s="
< 1275238111 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what's the easiest way in python to find the last element of an array that isn't a space...
< 1275238112 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... that's pretty simple.
< 1275238129 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Negative indices?
< 1275238135 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....
< 1275238141 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :array.strip()[-1]
< 1275238145 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Your second quine fails in SBCL.
< 1275238148 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's strings, CakeProphet
< 1275238155 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right
< 1275238161 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i wrote it for scheme but - how does it fail?
< 1275238162 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes
< 1275238172 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, not only that, but it's just difficult to make sense out of it.
< 1275238172 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: it's just C code, albeit 70s era
< 1275238174 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: haskell's show is pretty similar to %r
< 1275238174 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :string processing in Python is wonderfully simple.
< 1275238177 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: howso
< 1275238180 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: It gives the thing it prints for compiled lambdas.
< 1275238181 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: knuth didn't write the code btw
< 1275238183 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just annotated it
< 1275238183 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan:  -nod- I'm familiar with it.
< 1275238185 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it's terribly structured
< 1275238186 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ?
< 1275238191 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan:  typeclasses. :)
< 1275238192 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: it's not, actually
< 1275238195 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the adventure game is very linear
< 1275238199 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and basically a big linear data structure
< 1275238200 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ell
< 1275238201 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1275238202 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not linear
< 1275238204 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there is no "nesting"
< 1275238205 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your first quine fails in CL too.
< 1275238215 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not like usual c code, but it's not the wrong way to write it
< 1275238217 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.qwantz.com/index.php?comic=589
< 1275238219 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: well i dunno
< 1275238224 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's a nonlinear data structure for you
< 1275238232 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((lambda (x) (list x `(quote ,x))) '(lambda (x) (list x `(quote ,x))))
< 1275238232 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((LAMBDA (X) (LIST X `',X)) '(LAMBDA (X) (LIST X `',X)))
< 1275238245 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And for the other one:
< 1275238251 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((lambda (x) `(,x ',x)) (lambda (x) `(,x ',x)))
< 1275238252 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(#<FUNCTION (LAMBDA #) {B3E70C5}> '#<FUNCTION (LAMBDA #) {B3E70C5}>)
< 1275238267 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird.
< 1275238271 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1275238274 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: because you can't do
< 1275238279 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((lambda ...) x) in L... wait, yes you can
< 1275238281 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's an exception, i forgot
< 1275238283 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea then
< 1275238302 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!slashes http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/slashes/quine.sss
< 1275238318 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Actually, I think you missed a quote somewhere.
< 1275238327 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, yes.
< 1275238332 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((lambda (x) `(,x ',x)) '(lambda (x) `(,x ',x)))
< 1275238336 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There.
< 1275238337 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  array.reverse(); array.remove(" "); array[0]
< 1275238341 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...it's not the most efficient
< 1275238345 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's the easiest
< 1275238349 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1275238353 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!slashes test
< 1275238353 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's destructive too, which is terrible.
< 1275238353 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spaces aren't just " "s :P
< 1275238353 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/\/\/\/\\\\/\\\\\\\/\\\\\\\/\\\\\\\/\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\//\/\/\/\\\/\/\\////\\////\\\///\\////\\\///\\////\\\///\\////\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\////\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\////\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\////\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\////\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\////\\////\\\///\\////\\\///
< 1275238359 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even ''.join(lst).strip()[-1] is better
< 1275238361 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch
< 1275238365 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wut
< 1275238368 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is that the output of test
< 1275238373 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  well... I assumed you meant a list of arbitrary data
< 1275238389 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not strings, which is what you need for join
< 1275238389 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: it isn't, EgoBot has a bug where sometimes it gives the output on the following command instead
< 1275238406 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!slashes hello
< 1275238406 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's not the whole quine btw, it's too long for irc)
< 1275238407 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello
< 1275238441 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arise: so if the element is any amount of space it should be ignored?
< 1275238478 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if x :
< 1275238479 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  y
< 1275238479 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : else :
< 1275238479 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  z
< 1275238480 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn
< 1275238498 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1275238499 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the extra space
< 1275238500 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course
< 1275238502 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need to skip spaces :3
< 1275238508 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after { } and ;
< 1275238533 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  oh are you working on it right now?
< 1275238548 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: slashes (///) is uorygl's language, you may not have been around when i showed it TC </brag>
< 1275238563 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan:  it looks vaguely familiar. How does it work semantically?
< 1275238567 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: yep
< 1275238582 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Substitute on rest of the program.
< 1275238592 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!slashes /foo/bar/foo
< 1275238592 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bar
< 1275238594 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> print debrace('if x { y } else { z }')
< 1275238594 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if x :
< 1275238594 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : y
< 1275238594 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :else :
< 1275238594 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : z
< 1275238595 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woot
< 1275238603 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  if you give me a concise summary of the problem you're trying to solve for my sleep deprived brain... I could help you figure out the best way to do it. Python is my strongest language by far.
< 1275238613 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh...well
< 1275238614 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nevermind
< 1275238615 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1275238622 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> print debrace('def fact(n): { if n==0 { return 1 } else { return n * fact(n-1) } }')
< 1275238622 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :def fact(n):
< 1275238623 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if n==0 :
< 1275238623 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  return 1
< 1275238623 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : else :
< 1275238623 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  return n * fact(n-1)
< 1275238627 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        if c == '{':
< 1275238628 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :            if ''.join(self.result).rstrip()[-1] != ':':
< 1275238628 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                self.result.append(':')
< 1275238631 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that
< 1275238635 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to make sure that it doesn't add a : if you already did
< 1275238636 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*an
< 1275238647 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: /// commands substitute, with \ escaping characters.  everything else is printed, also with \ escaping
< 1275238654 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there quines that don't print themselves, but what they print, if run, prints the original quine?
< 1275238659 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or multiple steps like that
< 1275238665 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: sure
< 1275238673 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :url
< 1275238674 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iterated quines, iirc
< 1275238677 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  that works. To be more accurate you might want to use uh.....
< 1275238680 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks
< 1275238681 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me find it
< 1275238695 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :import string; string.whitespace
< 1275238695 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> print debrace(open('example.bs').read())
< 1275238696 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :def fact(n) :
< 1275238696 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if n == 0 :
< 1275238696 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  return 1
< 1275238696 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  
< 1275238697 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : else :
< 1275238699 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  return n * fact(n-1)
< 1275238700 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is all technical white space characters
< 1275238701 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  
< 1275238703 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 
< 1275238705 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :print fact(42)
< 1275238707 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :source of example.bs:
< 1275238709 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :def fact(n) {
< 1275238711 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    if n == 0 {
< 1275238713 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        return 1
< 1275238715 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    } else {
< 1275238717 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        return n * fact(n-1)
< 1275238719 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    }
< 1275238720 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is bs?
< 1275238721 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :}
< 1275238723 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :print fact(42)
< 1275238725 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: ah, like formfeeds and stuff?
< 1275238727 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think i'll bother supporting that
< 1275238737 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: yeah, tabs, and some other shit I don't... whatever /x0 is
< 1275238747 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll likely never happen though
< 1275238755 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  actually that's a bad idea because it includes \n
< 1275238757 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> '\t'.isspace()
< 1275238757 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True
< 1275238762 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so does .isspace()
< 1275238765 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that doesn't matter :P
< 1275238778 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: iirc the steps don't even need to be all in the same language
< 1275238804 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.bs?
< 1275238867 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: BraceS, my code that transforms Python-but-with-braces into Python
< 1275238868 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for IRC usage
< 1275238876 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  and yeah, isspace()  is lambda self: return (self in string.whitespace)
< 1275238877 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My god, it almost supports GNU style
< 1275238879 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :def fact2(n)
< 1275238879 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{
< 1275238880 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  if n == 0
< 1275238880 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    {
< 1275238880 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :      return 1
< 1275238880 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    }
< 1275238882 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  else
< 1275238884 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    {
< 1275238886 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :      return n * fact(n-1)
< 1275238888 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    }
< 1275238890 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :}
< 1275238895 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just have to make : add to the previous line instead of the current one
< 1275238896 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it'll work
< 1275238907 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  does it add the colon if the brace is trailing like that?
< 1275238913 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... yeah
< 1275238915 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-19-222.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275238926 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gnu style?
< 1275238936 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SgeoN1: worst indentation style in the world
< 1275238937 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :def fact2(n)
< 1275238937 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::
< 1275238937 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if n == 0
< 1275238937 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : :
< 1275238937 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  return 1
< 1275238938 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  
< 1275238941 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : else
< 1275238943 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : :
< 1275238945 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  return n * fact(n-1)
< 1275238946 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  that might significantly complicate your algorithm since you likely use a vanilla for loop.
< 1275238947 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So close
< 1275238972 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I would do is
< 1275238987 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Each brace on its own line?
< 1275239002 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do that>.>
< 1275239009 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :def keepLast(string): oldLine = ""; for line in string: yield oldLine, line; oldLine = line;
< 1275239023 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then in your current code
< 1275239040 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1275239041 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu
< 1275239042 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for oldLine, line in keepLast(whatever):
< 1275239054 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that'll give you the last line in your loop.
< 1275239056 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: actually it seems to be iterat*ing* quine
< 1275239073 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: i don't use a vanilla for loop
< 1275239083 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  oh... well nevermind. Generators are cool. :P
< 1275239093 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blame Linden Labs
< 1275239101 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Not a generator.
< 1275239103 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the coroutine style generator in Python is probably my favorite thing ever.
< 1275239104 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be though
< 1275239112 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: and every brace 2-indented
< 1275239115 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the body 2-indented
< 1275239115 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so
< 1275239116 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo
< 1275239117 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  {
< 1275239118 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    bar
< 1275239119 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  }
< 1275239150 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made a pretty sweet menu interface once for a online text-based game using coroutines
< 1275239153 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: http://www.nyx.net/~gthompso/self_iter.txt has some with more than one language as well
< 1275239163 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would use yield to prompt the user and then the yield would evaluate to their next input.
< 1275239176 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't do that
< 1275239177 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, cooooool
< 1275239186 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you'd throw StopIteration when your menu exits... and it would pop off the menu stak
< 1275239188 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*stack
< 1275239294 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  once you finish that. We should get a regular interpreter hosted and then use that to run your program as an interpreter.
< 1275239389 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: D&D :D
< 1275239408 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh he's not really on
< 1275239458 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  I don't know if I still have it in a working state, but I had a Python program that essentially printed 2+2, but the source code was obfuscated to span several screens while still just being a single logical line of code. :D
< 1275239462 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm quite proud of it.
< 1275239480 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I think I fucked it up somehow and it doesn't run correctly anymore.
< 1275239531 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What obfuscation techniques did you use?
< 1275239564 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh.... let's see
< 1275239569 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ambition, distraction, uglification and derision
< 1275239573 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used a lot of fancy Python internal stuff instead of their normal names
< 1275239611 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then I convert strings into arrays of ints... and then take those ints and split them up with arithmetic
< 1275239643 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Silly idea: I could have this thing support new syntactical structures
< 1275239646 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like if you define foo as a structure
< 1275239647 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then
< 1275239647 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found it, and it works, but now it assigns x = "Hello, World!"
< 1275239649 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo bar { baz }
< 1275239653 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  do it.
< 1275239655 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calls a function at compile time, foo
< 1275239658 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with bar and baz as strings
< 1275239663 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python is way too conservative with its syntax, in my opinion
< 1275239665 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could do, e.g.
< 1275239671 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@define foo foo_handler
< 1275239674 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1275239678 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@define unless unless_handler
< 1275239692 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :def unless_handler(cond, body): return build_if('!('+cond+')', body)
< 1275239693 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :python believes in language family values
< 1275239703 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I know
< 1275239716 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  that would be fun to play with
< 1275239740 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  could you have it accessible via the interpreter environment so that we could define new structures on Egobot?
< 1275239743 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Everything* is too conservative in its syntax. Unless it lets you rewrite the entire syntax.
< 1275239756 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/sdNGZPug
< 1275239760 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the obfuscated Python
< 1275239771 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's equivalent to x = "Hello, World!"
< 1275239789 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: sure
< 1275239791 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: there _is_ such a thing as balancing conflicting requirements, you know
< 1275239813 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, we could even have little function macros
< 1275239828 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@macro incr(x) x = x + 1
< 1275239867 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> print debrace('abc {}')
< 1275239867 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a:bc
< 1275239869 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tha's no ri'
< 1275239916 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't say
< 1275239919 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: you can give eval and exec a local and global scope to operate in... I'd make a custom dictionary object that kept a "stable" version of each scope. On writes to the dictionary it would update the "unstable" scope... so later you could clear the unstable state only and still have the rest of your program intact
< 1275239940 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: since your namespace will get overpopulated overtime.
< 1275239946 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you might want to run a cleanup occasionally.
< 1275239965 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I'd do if you don't feel like it. :)
< 1275240020 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the custom dictionary object would be if you wanted IRC programs to be able to access your interpreter internals... such as the macro thing.
< 1275240058 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...assuming EgoBot can even let you keep track of state over consecutive commands.
< 1275240101 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can if you use files, IIRC.
< 1275240107 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh pwd
< 1275240107 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/home/egobot/egobot.hg/multibot_cmds
< 1275240111 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay... so persistent storage.
< 1275240113 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep.
< 1275240123 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not as fun. :P
< 1275240132 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a bit more complicated to implement I think.
< 1275240170 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd basically just keep a pickled dictionary
< 1275240179 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for your "unstable" scope
< 1275240203 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so not too complicated.
< 1275240215 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose you could do something mad like have a background process.
< 1275240224 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then communicate with that.
< 1275240226 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be highly mad.
< 1275240238 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think pickling would be easier to code, if less efficient.
< 1275240247 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hence esoteric!
< 1275240249 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's Python... Python doesn't give a fuck about efficiency
< 1275240288 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So make it do so!
< 1275240321 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275240331 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm assuming EgoBot is running in a sandbox right? It would be mad to not chroot it or something equivalent.
< 1275240341 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1275240356 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh ls /
< 1275240356 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin
< 1275240366 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chroot = best security feature ever.
< 1275240397 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But how do we tell?
< 1275240403 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though it would be nice if you could somehow get a safe-to-play in version of root.
< 1275240447 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....wait, how does "ls" work? sh can still access /usr/bin I guess?
< 1275240458 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, so here is a fun challenge in python: Write a function that, given an array of strings, will give (i,j,c) such that IF ARY IS EMPTY: it appends '' to ary returns (0,0,''); IF ARY HAS NO NON-SPACES: it returns (-1, -1, ''); OTHERWISE, it returns (i,j,c) such that ary[i][j] == c, not c.isspace() and there are no non-spaces after c in the array.
< 1275240467 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, some efficiency is nice.
< 1275240470 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun fact: This is a bitch.
< 1275240474 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: it's not just chroot
< 1275240475 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's plash
< 1275240477 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chroot is not nearly secure enough
< 1275240488 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: It sends it through DCC if there's much input.
< 1275240492 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alist: can I have a looksee?
< 1275240499 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/in/out/
< 1275240514 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: me?
< 1275240516 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: just write it! :P
< 1275240532 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  I'll contribute some code, happily. :)
< 1275240541 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay hoorj
< 1275240544 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(pronounced hooray)
< 1275240545 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rofl.
< 1275240565 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always know something is wrong with my design in Python if I have to resort to lots of tuples in my string parsing.
< 1275240573 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this might be the best way to do it in this case... dunno.
< 1275240582 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh ls / | fmt -w400
< 1275240582 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin dev etc home lib lib64 proc tmp usr
< 1275240605 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: no, you should just need to iterate through indices in reverse, i think
< 1275240640 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  I don't know what these tuples are supposed to represent exactly.
< 1275240661 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: last non-space char, with some helpful stuff for my parser
< 1275240689 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: EgoBot doesn't allow you to preserve files across commands.  HackEgo does (but is currently broken).
< 1275240690 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay.
< 1275240707 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah... so I guess a background process would be the way to go.
< 1275240750 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  basically this function is to see if the last char is a space right?
< 1275240754 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er... colon I mean
< 1275240755 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: no
< 1275240759 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok here's what it's for
< 1275240772 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we use it to find the last non-space character. if it's not a colon, then we insert a colon /right after it/
< 1275240774 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is why we need the position
< 1275240775 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh cat hello > fred
< 1275240775 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/tmp/input.8691: line 1: fred: Permission denied
< 1275240777 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to insert a colon right after it
< 1275240779 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that foo\n{ works
< 1275240780 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ls
< 1275240782 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't just insert a :
< 1275240783 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-15-172.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275240785 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it becomes foo\n:
< 1275240788 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you know where o is
< 1275240790 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh ls
< 1275240791 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can add : after
< 1275240791 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interps
< 1275240792 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's foo:\n
< 1275240795 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: get it?
< 1275240795 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  ah.
< 1275240830 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed. It's a backtrack function to add a colon to a previous line, right?
< 1275240836 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the appending '' is just so that our assignment works even if it's []
< 1275240840 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although that's never valid who cares
< 1275240845 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: pretty much, except this one doesn't mutate
< 1275240848 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just gives the relevant coords
< 1275240850 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could change that
< 1275240852 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually probably a good idea
< 1275240856 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh echo *
< 1275240856 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interps lib slox
< 1275240857 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...yeah I would.
< 1275240862 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'ma try rewriting it as mutation, you can have a go too, yours will probably be better
< 1275240867 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I generally take advantage of mutability in Python.
< 1275240879 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, use your lang's "strengths" and all
< 1275240880 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  just pass the line in
< 1275240882 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess
< 1275240885 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that python has many... thanks for that guido :P
< 1275240889 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: it's in a class so
< 1275240900 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah.
< 1275240908 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can I see source once you get it stable?
< 1275240911 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1275240921 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i really need to get around to writing Endeavour/botte/rice sometime
< 1275240927 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the three tentative names for my uber-bot)
< 1275240931 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...ah
< 1275240937 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bots are awesome.
< 1275240938 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would include this :-)
< 1275240953 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :endeavour would have a complete irc framework thingy, plus really extensible plugins that can access a generic datastore
< 1275240956 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet. You should let it keep an active process for each interpreter.
< 1275240958 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tons and tons of sandboxed interpreters
< 1275240964 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like egobot, hackego and lambdabot in one
< 1275240968 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of development time too, I assume. ;)
< 1275240968 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: yes
< 1275240974 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also terminatable "commands"
< 1275240977 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the !ps of old egobot
< 1275240979 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ps
< 1275240982 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it still there?
< 1275240983 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess not
< 1275240987 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: yeah it's vaporware
< 1275240993 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still don't like any language yet :D
< 1275241009 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you had a repos of some kind I wouldn't mind working on it in my free time. I miss doing stuff on #esoteric
< 1275241024 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume it's a semi-distant-future thing though
< 1275241043 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably I should get my life sorted out first.
< 1275241049 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Semi-distant, yes, but I'd like to have it /some/ day at least
< 1275241053 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-nod-
< 1275241061 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and a lot of the interpreters would have user-specific data storage places
< 1275241065 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that other people can access but not mutate
< 1275241072 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....oh my.
< 1275241074 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the whole thing would also serve as a logbot and a quotebot...
< 1275241078 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet.
< 1275241082 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with presumably some sort of web server attached to it to serve those
< 1275241091 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would buy the OLPC tablet
< 1275241097 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically were it written the website + it on irc would be all you ever need to do anything even vaguely related to esoterica :P
< 1275241105 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  I would download copies of source from URL instead of constantly web-accessing them.
< 1275241117 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: yes, ofc
< 1275241125 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I don't know if you keeps notes or anything. Whenever I work on something big I keep tons of notes.
< 1275241156 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's always all in my head.
< 1275241164 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't seem to articulate a complete vision of anything.
< 1275241171 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... it'd be nice if I could add variable declarations to Python
< 1275241173 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as language I'd do Python simply because it's a task that doesn't require too much efficiency.. and Python is fast to develop in if you're good at catching bugs before they happen.
< 1275241174 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "global" mess is so stupid
< 1275241185 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, like a type system?
< 1275241192 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1275241193 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just
< 1275241197 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to do "var x = y" before using it
< 1275241203 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah.
< 1275241204 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without it, closures don't work (which is why python is shit)
< 1275241211 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scope safety, or whatever
< 1275241215 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at compile-time
< 1275241219 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that.
< 1275241236 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought closures work in Python?
< 1275241278 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :def hahahaha(): { x = 0; def inner(): { x = x + 1; return x }; return inner }
< 1275241279 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ doesn't work
< 1275241284 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because x is a local variable in inner
< 1275241288 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we just get an "undefined variable x" error
< 1275241290 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, it's CakeProphet!
< 1275241291 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello.
< 1275241292 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS works however:
< 1275241298 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  oh yeah. They added that in Python 3 actually
< 1275241302 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nonlocal declaration
< 1275241304 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :def ihateyou(): { x = [0]; def inner(): { x[0] = x[0] + 1; return x }; return inner }
< 1275241314 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!python print "hello"
< 1275241315 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: yeah but "nonlocal" is so silly, just make people use "var" or "def" first thing :P
< 1275241319 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: nope.
< 1275241321 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I agree.
< 1275241351 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  though I guess it could interfere with some dynamicism... but not really. If you just made it a compile-time thing and then scratched it at runtime... all the runtime binding features would still work fine.
< 1275241364 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :globals()["newVar"] = 2
< 1275241365 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all that
< 1275241371 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION winces and opens IE
< 1275241373 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blargh, I've forgotten how to swap () and [] in Slime.
< 1275241454 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  Have you heard of Go?
< 1275241487 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has similar quickness-of-programming to Python, but has type safety
< 1275241488 0 :ws!wswieb@akson.sgh.waw.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275241498 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Yes!
< 1275241503 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the syntax is a little weird though... and it's still in rough stages of development.
< 1275241504 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By Ken Thompson and Russ Cox, my heroes.
< 1275241509 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't mind the syntax.
< 1275241517 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah... I mean... you're in #esoteric
< 1275241519 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course you don't.
< 1275241525 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's... just python with braces
< 1275241526 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's so weird
< 1275241544 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the type declarations are kind of weird
< 1275241552 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, name type is older than type name.
< 1275241558 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :semantically it's fairly different from Python too. More like a mix of the good parts of Java and Erlang
< 1275241559 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, you know, Ken Thompson?
< 1275241560 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C?
< 1275241570 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, he didn't make C.
< 1275241579 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You *hate* C!
< 1275241580 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But he worked right next to the guy who made C on the same operating system that it was designed for.
< 1275241588 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, it's basically them reversing their own decision.
< 1275241590 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well, yes.
< 1275241590 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually like C a lot.
< 1275241594 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: But in the 70s C was nice.
< 1275241594 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1275241597 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Memory management didn't matter then.
< 1275241611 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Also, hey, Thompson and Pike invented UTF-8 in one day.
< 1275241612 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So nyah.
< 1275241613 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ is a clusterfuck, however. Syntactically.
< 1275241614 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it did. That's why they did it by hand.
< 1275241622 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No... on UNIX, you just did
< 1275241624 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :char foo[80];
< 1275241626 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gets(foo);
< 1275241630 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UTF-8 seems like an easy thing to invent in one day.
< 1275241636 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I should state my ignorance of C++ in general. I know C far better.
< 1275241638 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"But what if someone types more than 80 characters?" "The system would crash. But why would you do that?"
< 1275241652 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: not when you consider the previous encoding clusterfucks
< 1275241655 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, I like that attitude.
< 1275241656 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simplicity isn't easy
< 1275241673 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: underflow
< 1275241674 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  yeah. c is nice when you get your design correct... but you also have to rely on everyone else getting their design correct.
< 1275241683 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And nobody being malicious...
< 1275241683 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hey, how should we represent a variable-length character?"  "I dunno, maybe we should use the first byte to encode the length and some data, and further bytes to encode the rest of the data."
< 1275241690 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: hmm, darn, my solution to insert_colon mutated a list i was iterating over
< 1275241696 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty sure that's verboten even if you stop right after, yeah?
< 1275241708 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: it wasn't seen as variable length then though
< 1275241713 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was seen as a 16-bit character set
< 1275241722 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1275241735 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, oh, did you ever get satisfied with your Python code so that I can look at it?
< 1275241756 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-46-148.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275241757 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has anyone heard of io?
< 1275241772 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I was probably called something else when you left.  Like Warrigal or kerlo or ihope or something.
< 1275241791 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty nifty though. Suffers from poor support. But the language design is neat.
< 1275241794 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: almost there
< 1275241796 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've used Io
< 1275241798 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl:  ihope
< 1275241807 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods.
< 1275241823 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1275241823 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been... how many years?
< 1275241823 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu
< 1275241827 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was still in high school at the time.
< 1275241836 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I don't remember what that one thing was, but you probably do, so tell me about it.
< 1275241839 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1275241845 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe 3, possibly 4 to 5 at the most.
< 1275241859 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl:  ....what one thing?
< 1275241861 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> debrace('if\n{abc}')
< 1275241861 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'if:\n\n abc\n'
< 1275241862 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so close
< 1275241873 0 :hiato!~nine@41-132-16-205.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275241873 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: darn, you don't remember after all.
< 1275241888 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  it might be better to check for keywords on lines and end with a colon if it doesn't
< 1275241891 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: oh, maybe I was planning to create an operating system and you were planning to help, or something.
< 1275241893 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then use {}'s to only do tabbing
< 1275241895 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: NO
< 1275241901 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  ...it's easier than you would think
< 1275241902 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: custom structures remember :D
< 1275241929 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  Just keep a list of them. Simple enough.
< 1275241938 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  check the keyword list and the custom structures list
< 1275241953 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: no this is much cooler :|
< 1275241958 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  also check out import keyword; keyword.kwlist
< 1275241965 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DIE IN A FIRE :|
< 1275241966 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :keyword checking made easy.
< 1275241979 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though it doesn't give you the indent-only keywords
< 1275241985 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stuff like and, as, break, class, etc are in there
< 1275241993 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you'd just have to sort it out.
< 1275242006 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... and look
< 1275242009 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :keyword.iskeyword()
< 1275242019 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though, since you're not checking /every/ keyword... you wouldn't use that.
< 1275242027 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> debrace('if\n{abc}')
< 1275242028 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'if:\n\n abc\n'
< 1275242028 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :      ;; problem here is, the newline done by the \n is when it was thinking it was totally 0 indenting
< 1275242033 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait!
< 1275242038 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can just right-strip the text
< 1275242039 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and add the :
< 1275242040 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh!
< 1275242048 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though that'd be inefficient...
< 1275242051 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strip() is your friend
< 1275242058 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not on a list of strings
< 1275242060 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, *rstrip
< 1275242067 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  not as much as you'd think. strip() is written in C. In Python world that's fast.
< 1275242081 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have to join it
< 1275242082 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, .isspace() works on multiple strings
< 1275242086 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this will be easy
< 1275242097 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  pretty much all the string functions are C. multiple for loops in Python are still lightspeed in Python.
< 1275242106 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*c for loops
< 1275242107 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is
< 1275242116 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shaddap
< 1275242117 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1275242122 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D Just helpin'
< 1275242140 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python in general runs about 100x slower than C
< 1275242148 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even think that's exaggerating
< 1275242176 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so when you can, avoid custom loops over C-based built-ins
< 1275242185 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because multiple calls to those will be much faster than your hard-coded loops
< 1275242227 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thinking about efficiency in Python is completely different from thinking about efficiency in languages like C.
< 1275242267 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're worried about efficiency just write it in something else.
< 1275242272 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... and avoid string concatenation. If you're doing a lot of inserts and appends stick to lists. mutable = no re-allocation
< 1275242280 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover:  rofl. yeah, pretty much.
< 1275242292 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :concatenation = what i need to do to strip
< 1275242293 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so thar
< 1275242315 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... I suppose.
< 1275242316 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does Python actually implement arrays?
< 1275242330 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WOOT IT WORKS
< 1275242334 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1275242337 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python "lists" are C arrays that automatically resize in a semi-heuristic "smart" way.
< 1275242338 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm so happy i could fuck a goat
< 1275242340 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION fucks a goat
< 1275242344 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...anyway
< 1275242349 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Ahh.
< 1275242358 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all i need to do is stop it mutating >_>
< 1275242362 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while it's iterating over a list
< 1275242366 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because dat ist verboten
< 1275242383 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*das
< 1275242393 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover:  though there's an array module that lets you use C, typed, fixed sized arrays. It's for extreme cases where you want C array efficiency but don't want to write it in C
< 1275242427 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hence concatenation is a nightmare.
< 1275242430 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  would making a copy of the list break the semantics? If you make a copy you're mutating a different list.
< 1275242449 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :done <3
< 1275242455 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I've got it working perfectly
< 1275242461 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mutating yet safe, and quite elegant code too!
< 1275242469 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good. :)
< 1275242477 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lodgeit is the best paster site for python right?
< 1275242483 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...no clue.
< 1275242485 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh :P
< 1275242487 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just pastebin.com
< 1275242495 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a good one,  but I think it's down now.
< 1275242497 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll use the vjn.fi pastebin, for old times
< 1275242497 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was perfect.
< 1275242503 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could use sprunge, but eh
< 1275242517 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p3542786123.txt
< 1275242525 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The code isn't ugly, but it's a bit long for my tastes.
< 1275242529 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A quick scan of the #python title suggests http://paste.pocoo.org/
< 1275242533 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think using generators and other whizz-bang features could make it nicer, but this is acceptable.
< 1275242536 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pocoo is the lodgeit one iirc
< 1275242544 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: what was the perfect one called?
< 1275242546 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  can I see? :D :D :D
< 1275242554 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p3542786123.txt
< 1275242554 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  ...I can't even remember now. It's been so long.
< 1275242556 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i pasted it already :P
< 1275242561 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. missed it.
< 1275242569 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, I want to make one change
< 1275242571 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DON'T LOOK :P
< 1275242587 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  haha. Okay. (That happens to me too. I hate it)
< 1275242594 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p9416389493.txt
< 1275242599 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah there's all those tiny little things that you just suddenly notice
< 1275242603 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after exiting the main-problem-zone
< 1275242619 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah... a state-machine style class.
< 1275242631 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Example input: http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p4361828264.txt
< 1275242658 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Things I'd like: Some way to fool the Python interpreter, when it evaluates it, into matching up source lines with their results, so that e.g. braced oneliners work properly. (This is impossible.)
< 1275242661 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  do you have any kind of command-line support.. or is it just called in a larger package?
< 1275242666 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, uh, what's the other thing...
< 1275242672 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: this is all i've written so far
< 1275242677 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :debracer(some_string) works fine on the console to test it
< 1275242700 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  I'm not sure what you mean by matching up source lines.
< 1275242726 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like instead of
< 1275242731 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL YOU FUCKED UP AT LINE 72
< 1275242734 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when your file is a one-liner using braces
< 1275242738 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd say LOL YOU FUCKED UP AT LINE 1
< 1275242743 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU FUCKING FAILURE, YOU MESSED UP A ONELINER
< 1275242747 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'specially the insults would be good.
< 1275242752 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  If you want to make it a command-line tool just define a main function and then at the bottom of the source file  do if __name__ == "__main__": main()
< 1275242769 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  why would it say line 72?
< 1275242776 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I want to add more to it before making it a tool
< 1275242780 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: because
< 1275242784 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if abc { def { sadposdf } }
< 1275242784 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-nod- alright.
< 1275242785 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turns into
< 1275242785 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if abc
< 1275242786 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  def
< 1275242788 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    sadposdf
< 1275242789 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on
< 1275242797 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so imagine a huge oneliner in that
< 1275242800 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the translated python would be run
< 1275242802 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :python spots an error
< 1275242806 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :complains about the line in the translated code
< 1275242808 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and column
< 1275242809 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah the __name__ == "__main__" is one of those weird Python idioms that they seem to have ignored in their quest to make clean code.
< 1275242817 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so this basically makes line/column error messages useless if you actually utilise the braces stuff
< 1275242833 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if sys.is_main():
< 1275242837 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  aaaaah, I see. You want it to automatically put a one-line block on the same line as the statement.
< 1275242845 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... no
< 1275242851 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: you know C's #line?
< 1275242852 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just want it to correspond to your source file. Gotcha now.
< 1275242853 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well imagine this
< 1275242854 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1275242855 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you gotit
< 1275242856 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*got it
< 1275242878 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  I think that's possible actually.
< 1275242881 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll think about it.
< 1275242886 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think Python has a #line
< 1275242890 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may have some wacky assignment to do it though
< 1275242890 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... no not a line
< 1275242896 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then what about column
< 1275242897 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd have to be offset
< 1275242899 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you could give your tool an error output that would be useful.
< 1275242909 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it does do all this then this is veering away from joke preprocessor into compile territory
< 1275242915 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: it's python that'd make the error
< 1275242918 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess i could maintain a reverse map
< 1275242923 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :line in python -> line and col in braces
< 1275242925 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...oh, gotcha
< 1275242934 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well...
< 1275242935 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm
< 1275242945 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I remember seeing something similar to the problem you're describing
< 1275242948 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta find it though
< 1275242951 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's possible to work around.
< 1275242982 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean
< 1275242985 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could offset indents and shit
< 1275242988 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that i could look up a line
< 1275242992 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and see where it starts, line col in the braces source
< 1275242995 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that would be a fucking pain.
< 1275242997 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :essentially you'd a way to pass around the line number data... and then in the code where you evaluate, catch the exception, alter the traceback, and print
< 1275243005 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there's actually an easy way to do that.
< 1275243008 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not positive
< 1275243043 0 :Portponky!~no@cpc2-sgyl23-0-0-cust656.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275243070 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :def fib(n) {
< 1275243071 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :      if n == 0 { return 0 }
< 1275243071 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    elif n == 1 { return 1 }
< 1275243071 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    else        { return fib(n-1) + fib(n-2) }
< 1275243071 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :}
< 1275243072 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VALID BRACES CODE
< 1275243087 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: in my happy future land it'd be nice if you could omit the returns, too
< 1275243087 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  at the moment we'll call it impossible... but if I stumble upon a possible solution I'll let you know.
< 1275243096 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then let the if go AFTER the statement. Oh wait, I've just invented Perl
< 1275243098 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  eh... not necessary.
< 1275243104 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rofl...
< 1275243106 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: functional programming duderiffy
< 1275243113 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically you want to modify python to be awesome.
< 1275243119 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, pretty much
< 1275243127 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey i could support closures with this
< 1275243135 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :consider a function map(list)(closure)
< 1275243136 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then consider
< 1275243157 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for x from map(lst) { x + 2 }
< 1275243158 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-->
< 1275243160 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd probably want PyPy for anything advanced. It's Python written in Python and somehow partially JITed... I have no idea how it works
< 1275243167 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it makes it easier to tweak Python in Python.
< 1275243169 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :def __mapper(x): { return x+2 }; map(lst, __mapper)
< 1275243177 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: it's gorgeous, pypy
< 1275243197 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they write their python interp in a restricted dialect of python, rpython; and they also have a JIT from rpython, that compiles rpython to efficient machine code as it goes
< 1275243207 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that's right.
< 1275243208 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that JIT is written in python iirc
< 1275243214 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably.
< 1275243215 0 :hiato_!~nine@41-132-16-205.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275243218 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they run the jit -- in python -- on their in-RPython python interpreter
< 1275243218 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1275243223 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which then results in an efficient machine-code Python interpreter
< 1275243232 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's genius
< 1275243272 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: actually if this gets too far I'll have invented my own, superior language
< 1275243278 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rofl. yes.
< 1275243295 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least in terms of syntactic features
< 1275243295 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION translates braces.py to braces.bs
< 1275243299 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BOOTSTRAPPING
< 1275243304 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is bs again?
< 1275243313 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BraceS, but the bullshit expansion is intentional
< 1275243330 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoa, my string support is broken.
< 1275243346 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 Snoo
< 1275243360 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fix'd
< 1275243363 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ?
< 1275243370 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, the Reddit alient
< 1275243372 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*alien
< 1275243376 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it has a name?
< 1275243377 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: lol, this isn't even backwards-compatible,
< 1275243379 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*compatible.
< 1275243383 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/c9k3y/til_the_reddit_alien_is_called_snoo/
< 1275243384 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: it strips your indentation
< 1275243385 0 :benuphoenix!~matt@ool-182e6881.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275243389 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi benuphoenix
< 1275243390 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  Hmmm? What went wrong-- oh?
< 1275243391 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders why there isn't a decent way to take some Common Lisp and compile it into an executable
< 1275243397 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: yeah
< 1275243408 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh.. right
< 1275243413 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you use string.whitespace to strip whitespace?
< 1275243416 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or isspace()?
< 1275243427 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or... strip even
< 1275243434 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1275243438 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's obvious
< 1275243446 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so nevermind me asking stupid questions.
< 1275243450 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1275243455 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I should make {} result in pass
< 1275243459 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> "\t".strip()
< 1275243462 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :''
< 1275243475 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also that... dunno if it matters.
< 1275243517 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> string.whitespace
< 1275243519 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'\t\n\x0b\x0c\r '
< 1275243566 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I ported braces.py to braces.bs!
< 1275243580 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION moves braces.py to braces_orig.py, then generates braces.py using braces_orig.py on braces.bs
< 1275243619 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woah.... that while self.process_char(): pass  is a completely weird way to loop over that.
< 1275243625 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it works.
< 1275243626 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're weird.
< 1275243628 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1275243630 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I originally did
< 1275243631 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go = True
< 1275243633 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while go:
< 1275243637 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    go = self.process_char()
< 1275243638 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.......rofl. why.
< 1275243639 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but realised that was stupid
< 1275243645 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha.
< 1275243650 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p1266287623.txt braces.bs v1
< 1275243663 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would have done uh...
< 1275243669 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p9595539115.txt generated object code ;)
< 1275243672 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also known as python)
< 1275243675 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for c in self.source: self.process_char(c)
< 1275243684 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, because self.source is mutated a lot
< 1275243686 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that would do weird shit
< 1275243688 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and be undefined behaviour
< 1275243699 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay.
< 1275243712 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :behold, the world's first ugly pythonesque compiling-to-python self-hosting language
< 1275243715 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's a good work-around I guess.
< 1275243733 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure somehow else has given Python braces.
< 1275243741 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/somehow/someone
< 1275243769 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they have
< 1275243780 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a source encoding filter...
< 1275243785 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is cooler though
< 1275243936 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  I'd turn the spaces-per-indent up a bit. Have it a constructor option.  def __init__(self, source, spaces_per_indent=4)
< 1275243947 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then (' ' * self.indent * self.spaces_per_indent)
< 1275243948 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: But why would you want to look at the generated object code...?
< 1275243961 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  hmm... I dunno, it could happen.
< 1275243967 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: "To be fair, that's like saying the reddit alien is from the future -- it was something that was tossed around in the summer 2005, and then it was pretty much forgotten. Even around the office, I've never heard anyone call it Snoo; it's always just "the alien"."
< 1275243982 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: At least this way it LOOKS definitively evil.
< 1275243994 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  I mean the whole point is to have internet-friendly python... so once you have hosted somewhere there's no reason not to have it human-friendly
< 1275244002 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+it
< 1275244010 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, this is actually just for abomination purposes
< 1275244016 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...ah.
< 1275244035 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  psh, you're not allowed to diss Python when you're doing stuff with it, for it.
< 1275244054 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if I'm raping it to make it look like a clown?
< 1275244059 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because that's basically the case here.
< 1275244079 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I don't know, the braces look nice really. Possibly even more structured.
< 1275244101 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when your blocks get long-winded it can be easy to loose track of how many dedents there are at the end.
< 1275244114 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not having to type braces is definitely worth it... :)
< 1275244125 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but really... they should have both. There's absolutely no reason not to.
< 1275244128 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :def printf(s)
< 1275244128 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{
< 1275244129 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    print(s);
< 1275244129 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :}
< 1275244129 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :def main(argc, argv)
< 1275244129 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{
< 1275244131 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    printf("Hello, world!\n");
< 1275244133 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    return 0;
< 1275244135 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :}
< 1275244140 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....actually.
< 1275244142 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh.
< 1275244145 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait...
< 1275244147 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....
< 1275244148 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[spoiler]VALID[/spoiler] [sup][b][i]BRACES[/i]c[/b]o[/sup][sub][spoiler]de[/spoiler]
< 1275244149 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what?
< 1275244156 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :def printf(s):
< 1275244156 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : print(s)
< 1275244156 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 
< 1275244156 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :def main(argc, argv):
< 1275244156 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : printf("Hello, world!\n")
< 1275244156 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return 0
< 1275244158 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is what it becomes
< 1275244163 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :print(s) in python 2.0 is print (s)
< 1275244166 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you just use printf in Python?
< 1275244168 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is print s
< 1275244173 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I just defined printf to be print :P
< 1275244177 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh.
< 1275244183 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  try printf = print
< 1275244184 0 :huldumadurin!~chatzilla@88.85.56.65 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275244191 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't work in C
< 1275244195 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :........rofl.
< 1275244198 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and print is a statement
< 1275244199 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you fail
< 1275244208 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  depends on which version you're using
< 1275244216 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh I need bracketed comments
< 1275244220 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(# ... #) do you think?
< 1275244226 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're capturing it in your parenzz
< 1275244231 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: 2.0
< 1275244237 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python already has """
< 1275244241 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it actually has semantic importance too
< 1275244259 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  yeah print-as-a-function is 3... possibly 2.6 or 7 or something
< 1275244277 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3
< 1275244284 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :""" is LAEM though
< 1275244286 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can't do
< 1275244294 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if foo { print """abc""" x }
< 1275244301 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :these (# ... #) comments would simply be elided in the result
< 1275244305 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....ah, okay.
< 1275244308 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and nestable
< 1275244310 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like all good comments
< 1275244311 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then yeah. But maybe a different syntax.
< 1275244315 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(# abc (# def #) quux #)
< 1275244320 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why, it's just like # comments but you capture them!
< 1275244321 0 :benuphoenix!~matt@ool-182e6881.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275244330 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{#  #}  could possibly conflict with Python code in some odd corner case.
< 1275244337 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*(# #)
< 1275244342 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I DEEYEN CARE
< 1275244348 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it's never going to happen.
< 1275244355 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: What's up?
< 1275244357 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the Algorithmic Programming Language Braces, not FIOC :|
< 1275244361 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :benuphoenix: whoa it's you.
< 1275244368 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :benuphoenix, your IRC client's working again?
< 1275244380 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  also, main won't do what you expect. Python doesn't automatically call main like that
< 1275244399 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, unless you expect something different.
< 1275244412 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know
< 1275244414 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was just writing pseudo-C
< 1275244423 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a proficient python programmer ffs :P
< 1275244426 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-nod- alright. Just checkin'
< 1275244438 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa i have some mental block with using braces after typing pythony code
< 1275244446 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your while idiom made me uncertain. :P
< 1275244460 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  I almost forgot the explicit self after doing a lot of Java and C# lately.
< 1275244477 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  I would almost grow to dislike it now that I've had the convenient of not having to type it all the time.
< 1275244479 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is an abomination, it doesn't have to be idiomatic
< 1275244487 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not even a big fan of OOP.
< 1275244488 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The explicit self is incredibly annoying.
< 1275244495 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my irc client can access channels
< 1275244525 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the fact that out of habit you call it self, rather than, say, j or something similarly easy to type.
< 1275244531 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Hey, this means I can use nested functions conveniently <3
< 1275244561 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Common Lisp's object system is very weird.
< 1275244571 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It's very good.
< 1275244577 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But still weird.
< 1275244584 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  Sweet... now support multi-line lambdas... compile them to named functions that don't conflict with anything else in code, embed the name where the lambda expression was originally, and then delete the name afterwards. :P
< 1275244586 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1275244586 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's advanced. It predates almost all other object systems.
< 1275244590 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It did it Better.
< 1275244593 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: and call the whole thing "perl"
< 1275244599 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have *ever* used C++ or Python  or Java.
< 1275244601 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously, we're just approaching idiomatic perl 5 without sigils here
< 1275244610 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: unlucky!
< 1275244610 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC Javascript does it weirdly too.
< 1275244613 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  psh... we're not even close to the syntactic monster of perl yet.
< 1275244622 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: i said idiomatic perl
< 1275244630 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously, idiomatic perl is basically what we have here, plus some additional niceties
< 1275244630 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...you lie.
< 1275244636 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not!
< 1275244645 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :multi-line lambdas: yep, idiomatic perl
< 1275244649 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :braces: uh, yeah
< 1275244652 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scripting language: yep
< 1275244659 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also has "not", "unless" and similar
< 1275244659 0 :nooga!~marysia@86-63-110-58.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275244665 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also has conditions after the statement (useful a lot of times)
< 1275244669 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're inventing perl :P
< 1275244673 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I know nothing about Perl other than everytime I try to memorize the syntax in any way I completely fail. I blame but the language design, but it could also be copious marijuana ingestion in my past.
< 1275244674 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1275244676 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no shiii
< 1275244684 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  yes, I do remember those features.
< 1275244697 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275244724 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  but the semantics are entirely different.... entirely.
< 1275244733 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true
< 1275244738 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a kinda soft spot for perl.
< 1275244747 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(# ... #) comments implemented!
< 1275244752 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know Perl very well...
< 1275244754 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nifty.
< 1275244762 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell's comment style is really nice. It's my favorite that I've seen.
< 1275244774 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell is a good language.
< 1275244777 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...indeed.
< 1275244786 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not without flaws, but a very good language nontheless.
< 1275244793 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1275244807 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird@ehird-desktop:~/work/2010-05/braces$ mv braces.py braces_.py
< 1275244807 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird@ehird-desktop:~/work/2010-05/braces$ python -i braces_.py
< 1275244808 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> open('braces.py', 'w').write(debrace(open('braces.bs').read()))
< 1275244808 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>>
< 1275244808 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird@ehird-desktop:~/work/2010-05/braces$ rm braces_.py
< 1275244809 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Updat'd
< 1275244825 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaand it doesn't work
< 1275244829 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is my damn connection down again?
< 1275244832 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular, some of the functions that use Int instead of Integral are annoying... especially when you have to coerce types around.
< 1275244835 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it is not.
< 1275244837 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: no
< 1275244840 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION builds a command-line interface
< 1275244842 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Yes, that is a flaw.
< 1275244862 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Also, the Num class is an abomination; we thought about this stuff last century and it turns out there are these things called rings and fields...#
< 1275244865 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*fields...
< 1275244882 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...hmmm, yeah. I don't know anything about those though...
< 1275244887 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's behaving oddly, though.
< 1275244890 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not well-read on abstract algebra
< 1275244897 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: they're pretty simple really
< 1275244901 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I figured.
< 1275244913 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: you have one for +, one building on top for -, one building on top for *, then one building on top for / basically
< 1275244916 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a structure that describes a formal system of operations over data right?
< 1275244917 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except you have a bunch inbetween
< 1275244924 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for things like non-commutative or non-associative operations
< 1275244929 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we can categorise tons of non-numbers in this too
< 1275244931 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...they build? in what way?
< 1275244935 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, like
< 1275244944 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A frizzle is a bob (S,*) such that x*y = y*x."
< 1275244950 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(where * is any operation not multiplication)
< 1275244960 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is S?
< 1275244964 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a set
< 1275244969 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, the data
< 1275244970 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* is an operation taking two Ss and returning an S
< 1275244975 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the very bottom structure is a magma:
< 1275244988 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what is frizzle, and what is bob?
< 1275244992 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A magma (S,*) is a set S and a binary operation * on S with the following property:
< 1275244995 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ring and field?
< 1275244998 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Closure propety: a*b is in S.
< 1275245011 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: no, field is division (multiplicative inverses; i.e. ^-1)
< 1275245029 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay... a ring is more general?
< 1275245030 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ring is +, * and -
< 1275245035 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotcha
< 1275245037 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Z is the prime example
< 1275245041 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Magma	
< 1275245041 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Set S with binary operation +
< 1275245041 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Semigroup	
< 1275245041 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Associativity of +
< 1275245041 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monoid	
< 1275245042 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Existence of identity element for + in S
< 1275245044 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Group	
< 1275245046 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume frizzles and bobs are metasyntactic.
< 1275245046 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Existence of inverse elements for + in S
< 1275245048 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Abelian group	
< 1275245050 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Commutativity of +
< 1275245052 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pseudo-ring	
< 1275245054 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so then what is frizzle in bob?
< 1275245054 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Associative binary operation ·
< 1275245056 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*and
< 1275245056 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Distributivity of · over +
< 1275245058 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ring	
< 1275245060 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Existence of identity element for · in S
< 1275245062 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Commutative ring	
< 1275245064 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Commutativity of ·
< 1275245066 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Field	
< 1275245068 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Existence of inverse elements for · in S
< 1275245070 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :urgh
< 1275245072 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.......
< 1275245072 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_(mathematics)#Definition_and_illustration
< 1275245074 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at the "Algebraic structures" table there
< 1275245076 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: there are some structures inbetween for pathological things
< 1275245078 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's purple and commutes
< 1275245087 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1275245092 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....
< 1275245098 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a purple man who lives far away from his workplace
< 1275245101 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rofl
< 1275245137 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You both know, so there's no point.
< 1275245140 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  I apologize. My ability to parse wikipedia articles on math is very limited... mainly because they explain everything in terms of other things I also don't understand.
< 1275245147 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'll give your link a look
< 1275245150 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: get yourself an edumacation :D
< 1275245154 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait you're from the US
< 1275245160 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU CAN'T HAHAHAHahem.
< 1275245180 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...rofl.
< 1275245185 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah.
< 1275245200 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, abstract algebra isn't really taught, except in advance college classes.
< 1275245275 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  so basically instead of Num you'd have Ring for (+) and (-) along and (Ring x) => Field(x) for division and multiplication? or is multiplication elsewhere?
< 1275245285 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*along with
< 1275245287 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: well it's a bit more nuanced than that
< 1275245290 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiplication is in ring actually
< 1275245298 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah... okay.
< 1275245300 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be easy to use
< 1275245307 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that it's hard to memorise exactly what some thing is :P
< 1275245314 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: to do all that we really need inheritance of classes
< 1275245317 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that you could just define it as the highest one
< 1275245321 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it'd inherit the definitions downwards
< 1275245323 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  doesn't GHC support that?
< 1275245323 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to parent ones
< 1275245326 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope,.
< 1275245327 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*nope.
< 1275245332 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you could do like
< 1275245341 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typeclass (Ring x) => (Field x)
< 1275245345 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope
< 1275245346 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GUYS GUYS
< 1275245355 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Braces 1.5: http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p8785482493.txt
< 1275245358 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bootstrapping Python: http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p3558378555.txt
< 1275245362 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry
< 1275245365 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pre-compiled version: http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p3558378555.txt
< 1275245370 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Binary for Python platforms :P
< 1275245404 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Example: http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p5491253623.txt
< 1275245479 0 :hiato_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1275245499 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I'm turning insane halp
< 1275245504 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's up?
< 1275245537 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...how are you turning insane?
< 1275245587 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p8785482493.txt
< 1275245588 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'nuff said
< 1275245589 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: you can have Ring x => Field x, but what you cannot have is defining the Ring methods automatically from the Field methods
< 1275245609 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaah.
< 1275245620 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could you?
< 1275245632 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would that even be possible?
< 1275245638 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to make a Field (or in current Haskell, say Fractional) you have to define _all_ the superclasses separately
< 1275245647 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right.
< 1275245660 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, so it's a convenience thing.
< 1275245668 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: well, it would be nice to at least have them listed in common.
< 1275245677 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obvs we should just add dependent typing, require totality and add a proof assistant
< 1275245678 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :job done.
< 1275245684 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rofl.
< 1275245687 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait that's agda except with a proof assistant and consistency ha ha ha ha ha ha
< 1275245692 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's funny because i am dissing agda
< 1275245694 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the grounds that coq is superioe
< 1275245696 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*superior
< 1275245697 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  are you still insane?
< 1275245705 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: i have concluded i always have been
< 1275245709 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  also... you lost me on that last bit. But that's okay.
< 1275245710 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's woooonderful~
< 1275245714 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is.
< 1275245732 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm wasting far too much time doing fun stuff and talking on this channel.
< 1275245748 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone is insane.  it's just that a large group of people have convinced themselves their delusions are "normal"
< 1275245755 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I've already procrastinated like a whole week of my online history class, and was/is going to catch up today.
< 1275245758 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1275245759 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aka "the majority"
< 1275245771 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :says oerjan, whilst believing in synchronicity.
< 1275245782 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*MWAHAHAHA*
< 1275245801 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: i never said i was normal
< 1275245802 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: so... have you considered how to implement generic macro control structures yet?
< 1275245818 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: by tossing the crock of shit out and making it properly modular
< 1275245837 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  well yes... but I'd try to re-use some code if possible... just re-organize
< 1275245862 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  but yeah... pretty much you want dynamic dispatch.
< 1275245866 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's awesome.
< 1275245874 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, I could just invent a new language.
< 1275245883 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...but this is more fun.
< 1275245924 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. yes.
< 1275245928 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  one thing you'll possibly want to improve on how information mid-parse is stored.
< 1275245929 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Yes.
< 1275245933 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not quite sure how though
< 1275245938 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; I really want to create a pseudo-syntax tree
< 1275245943 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm very bad at homebrew parsers and making them elegant.
< 1275245958 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of mostly string globs of python interrupted by [KEYWORD, BIT_BEFORE_BRACE, ...stuff inside braces...]
< 1275245965 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where stuff is either a string or another one of those
< 1275245995 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  You just need to be able to recognize a control structure that's been implemented somewhere... either with some kind of special macro syntax that you can embed mid-source-code, or as plugins to the compiler.
< 1275246014 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whichever you prefer.
< 1275246023 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MetaPython provides a macro and code quoting facility for the Python programming language. It accomplishes this via the use of an import hook. MetaPython files are denoted with an .mpy extension and may contain quoted code blocks, macro definitions, and macro expansions.
< 1275246025 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and whichever is saner, or maybe less sane
< 1275246040 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...oh shit. I forgot about import hooks.
< 1275246041 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: this is all reminding me of me and oklopol's python schemes
< 1275246058 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which were basically little half-lisp, half-schemes we wrote in python with very tight python integration
< 1275246064 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw an implemention of gotos in Python that used debugging facilities.
< 1275246067 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wrote one that did its own GCing and everything
< 1275246067 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was hot
< 1275246068 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275246093 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  How about this: make all functions partially applicable.
< 1275246110 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Would need different syntax, because of varargs.
< 1275246114 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about f&(args...)?
< 1275246120 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this will be after you have a sane parsing scheme down... so that all these new features are easy to tack on.
< 1275246133 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  nope. it's easier then you would think.
< 1275246139 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know it can be done
< 1275246148 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but one syntax is better than having to do a special case for variadic functions
< 1275246158 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you wouldn't need to do a special case
< 1275246171 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :def fuck(*args): ...
< 1275246175 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just locate all def's in source and apply a decoration
< 1275246177 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck(1,2,3) # this should partially apply
< 1275246179 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHOOPS IT DOESN'T.
< 1275246198 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..hmmm... oh, I think I get what you're saying
< 1275246213 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so something like fuck&(1,2,3) is better
< 1275246231 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....I'm still not completely following. is & an explicit partial application?
< 1275246252 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1275246263 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f&(x,y,z) = lambda *args, **kwargs: f(x,y,z,*args,**kwargs)
< 1275246275 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Braces, the function behind it would be
< 1275246301 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not...
< 1275246329 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :def partial(f, *args, **kwargs) { def do_it(*args2, **kwargs2) { return f(*(args+args2), **kwargs.update(kwargs2)) } return do_it }
< 1275246330 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something
< 1275246346 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Ohmygod I could allow arbitrary infix operators :|
< 1275246353 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(No that would be a bitch... but... tempting)
< 1275246429 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are you crazy people talking about?
< 1275246448 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :def decorator(f) { def wrapper(*args, **kargs) { (#insert introspection code to make sure we actually need to partial apply... otherwise#) def partial(*newargs, **kargs) { return f(*(args+newargs), **(kargs+newkargs)) } } }
< 1275246453 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ``The Revised Report on the Algorithmic Language Braces''
< 1275246462 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...rough draft of the actual code, but you get the idea.
< 1275246467 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no + on dicts
< 1275246478 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's like update or whatever
< 1275246480 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are Algorithmic Language Braces?
< 1275246481 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.update is mutating too :(
< 1275246489 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that bad in this case?
< 1275246502 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I think **foo copies so i guess not
< 1275246503 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It's a reference to The Revised Revised Revised Revised Revised Report on the Algorithmic Language Scheme
< 1275246513 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Braces is my abomination that gives Python wiiiings^Wbraces.
< 1275246537 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  yeah if you're passing in a dictionary explicitly with **-used-mid-call expression thing... it most likely makes a copy. I'll test, but it's easy to fix... there's a copy() method
< 1275246557 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, Scheme.
< 1275246611 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> def test(**kargs): d["fail"] = True
< 1275246611 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> test(**d)
< 1275246611 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> d
< 1275246612 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grr, & can't even be a regular op
< 1275246613 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{'fail': True}
< 1275246619 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't do (x=y) in tuples
< 1275246631 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  so yeah just use the copy() method if kargs is not empty
< 1275246649 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't & one of the ASCII characters that is completely invalid in Python?
< 1275246651 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, wait.
< 1275246660 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those are ? and $.
< 1275246669 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also use functools stuff because they make it easy to write wrapper objects that preserve all the docs/introspection info of the original function
< 1275246692 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p4667924367.txt ;; & definition
< 1275246712 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@compiler is the built-in block that says "compile and evaluate this /now/ in the compiler-code environment"
< 1275246717 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which lets you use it in things like macros, infix definitions, etc.
< 1275246718 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...but it's so ugly. I'd rather just use Python's existing partial application stuff.
< 1275246720 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is all hypothetical, of course.
< 1275246724 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<CakeProphet> also use functools stuff because they make it easy to write wrapper objects that preserve all the docs/introspection info of the original function
< 1275246727 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah yeah that stuff
< 1275246748 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :functools.partial(func[, *args][, **keywords])
< 1275246748 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Return a new partial object which when called will behave like func called with the positional arguments args and keyword arguments keywords. If more arguments are supplied to the call, they are appended to args. If additional keyword arguments are supplied, they extend and override keywords. Roughly equivalent to:
< 1275246751 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it already exists!
< 1275246764 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...oh, yes
< 1275246767 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :functools.partial
< 1275246775 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p2957715959.txt
< 1275246779 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it handled kwargs, it'd be perfect.
< 1275246785 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't?
< 1275246793 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I swear there's a Python-based thing that has extensible syntax.
< 1275246794 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or was it Lua?
< 1275246798 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: (1,2,x=y)
< 1275246800 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't do that in a tuple
< 1275246803 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and & is a binary op taking a function and a tuple
< 1275246805 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f & (1,2,3)
< 1275246813 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neaky.
< 1275246815 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sneaky sneaky
< 1275246831 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : |  partial(func, *args, **keywords) - new function with partial application |  of the given arguments and keywords.
< 1275246839 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but
< 1275246842 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p2957715959.txt
< 1275246844 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if THAT handled kwargs
< 1275246845 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be perfect
< 1275246874 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my god... that was quick implementation
< 1275246880 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p2957715959.txt
< 1275246880 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> If it handled kwargs, it'd be perfect.
< 1275246882 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not quick, old :P
< 1275246889 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: oh you mean I implemented that?
< 1275246890 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha no,.
< 1275246893 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is just concept art
< 1275246897 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...oh, okay.
< 1275246903 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... what I would do
< 1275246907 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is silently implement it for all functions
< 1275246911 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell-like semantics
< 1275246915 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a decorator
< 1275246930 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for lambdas just wrap the expression inside the function call explicitly
< 1275246943 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...but before you do that
< 1275246950 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you seem to be taking this to a whole new level
< 1275246962 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would refactor your design to be easier to extend.
< 1275246972 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell's lambda thing should be .\ . That is all.
< 1275246980 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rofl... yes, that too
< 1275246994 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p1928734847.txt
< 1275246998 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if we try to fix everything that's wrong with Python we'll be doing this for months.
< 1275247038 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BRACES: It's like Python... but AWESOME.
< 1275247046 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest we remove all the side-effects
< 1275247054 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rofl
< 1275247060 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that'll be simple.
< 1275247060 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then add a hindley-milner type system & inferrer with typeclasses
< 1275247066 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we could name it after some logician
< 1275247069 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be easy to curry in
< 1275247071 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha
< 1275247073 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since we'd make function application "f x"
< 1275247076 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... maybe Curry?
< 1275247079 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... makes me think of indian
< 1275247080 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and since there's no side effects
< 1275247083 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we could lazy evaluate
< 1275247087 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, Schonfinkel really invented currying
< 1275247089 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that name sucks
< 1275247093 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: go for his first name
< 1275247094 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, what was Curry's first name?
< 1275247095 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh! OOH!
< 1275247097 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was Haskell!
< 1275247100 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah!
< 1275247100 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: great minds think alike
< 1275247101 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good name
< 1275247102 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1275247104 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll form a committee
< 1275247106 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's start writing a report
< 1275247127 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll play email ches
< 1275247132 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OKAY!!
< 1275247139 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: DO YOU HAVE ANY CONTRIBUTIONS WE ARE WRITING THE HASKELL REPORT '98
< 1275247145 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH YOU DO? WONDERFUL
< 1275247163 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  hmmm... so I assume prelude and body are macro parameters?
< 1275247186 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: yes -- "block prelude { body }" -> block_handler('prelude', 'body')
< 1275247188 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :braces code in, braces code out
< 1275247196 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... okay.
< 1275247208 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it would syntax-check prelude and body first
< 1275247220 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that as long as your format can be plugged in with any syntactically-correct braces it'll work
< 1275247329 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  you'll probably want a) a few dispatch tables that map to objects that store state about individual declarations. A Block type would contain the source code, line information, possibly AST info, and a method that would take a structure representing your mid-parse source code and plug in its substition somehow
< 1275247354 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a Operator type would have a simple function. They'll likely inherit some features from a base class.
< 1275247365 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er... similar function
< 1275247397 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah... you'd have these dispatch tables associating the statement name to those data structures... and then you'd just call the method to make them go.
< 1275247397 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ python braces.py <braces.bs >braces.py
< 1275247399 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoops.
< 1275247408 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't worry i have the files i need to reconstruct
< 1275247436 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit, nested comments don't work
< 1275247484 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :passing in the mid-parse-source-code/AST structure to the dispatch objects processing method would allow the dispatch code to call a method that lets it substitute its changes into the code in some sane way.
< 1275247503 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...this is completely stream-of-consciousness planning though. I'm likely missing some detail.
< 1275247526 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there'd likely be several steps to compilation.
< 1275247551 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, now it works.
< 1275247561 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Noooo it doesn't
< 1275247580 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  or... can we scratch my ideas and just make it a hack-together project?
< 1275247634 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just acquired a wizard's bit in LambdaMOO
< 1275247639 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....rofl.
< 1275247644 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude LambdaMOO is the shit.
< 1275247653 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nested comments work!
< 1275247657 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet.
< 1275247667 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you evil man!  give the poor wizard his bit back!
< 1275247670 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Braces 1.6: http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p3941535591.txt
< 1275247673 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how are they transla---oh, nevermind, they're comments, you just cut them out.
< 1275247679 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So much fun for 142 lines.
< 1275247687 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275247703 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah... I think I've got a pretty good idea of how to make implementing control-flow macros in a sane fashion.
< 1275247707 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoops
< 1275247709 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I left debugging stuff in
< 1275247728 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION waveth
< 1275247728 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I think some Pythonistas want to kill you
< 1275247762 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Braces 1.7: http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p1222944752.txt
< 1275247763 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :error: not a chance
< 1275247763 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Of course.
< 1275247774 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq!
< 1275247776 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p1222944752.txt
< 1275247782 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: This compiles to Python. Self-hosted, you know.
< 1275247800 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Features: Braces! Semicolons! One-liners work because of this! (# Nested (# comments! #) #)
< 1275247805 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah... I was wondering why my computer was being so slow. Chrome is taking up a lot of clock cycles for some reason.
< 1275247811 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Don't I know you from somewhere?
< 1275247812 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, great, but how do you actually run it if you don't already have a Braces interpreter?
< 1275247823 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq:  yeah, I used to frequent this channel a few years ago. :)
< 1275247828 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Howsabout not being a lazy ass and doing s/}//, s/{/:/?
< 1275247828 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq:  ...
< 1275247834 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. That'd do it.
< 1275247837 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was  that tongue-in-cheek?
< 1275247837 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1275247839 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: :-)
< 1275247850 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Somewhat.
< 1275247852 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  ...so, can I hack ur source plz?
< 1275247865 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, you know, here's a binary:
< 1275247869 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p8823673854.txt
< 1275247872 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs on Python model CPUs.
< 1275247874 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  I'm much slower at implementing things. But I'd like to say I have pretty good design skillz.
< 1275247881 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Sure... just make it elegant.
< 1275247886 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rofl. of course.
< 1275247895 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This IS production-ready code, after all...
< 1275247901 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the latest link the latest source?
< 1275247913 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Not the Python one, the Braces one.
< 1275247918 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use the Python one to recompile the braces one.
< 1275247931 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: pikhq: Here's some of the debauchery you can achieve with this abominable program: http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p8786875755.txt
< 1275247935 0 :sshc_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sshc
< 1275247950 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I even refrained from linking to the compiled Python in #python so that people didn't use it unless they really wanted to :-)
< 1275247962 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Note beautiful GNU indentation style now supported.
< 1275247968 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  ..... u_u can I just have a link to the latest Python "object" code? ;)
< 1275247978 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Well, I won't accept edits to it.
< 1275247981 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already linked to it.
< 1275247994 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Edit this: http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p1222944752.txt then compile it to Python with this: http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p8823673854.txt
< 1275247994 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to test it
< 1275247996 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, what's the indentation Emacs uses called?
< 1275247996 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...oh, right. hmmm, okay. I'll just use to self-host so I can test
< 1275247999 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: GNU.
< 1275248002 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's Evil.
< 1275248016 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Usage: python braces.py <braces.bs >braces2.py
< 1275248018 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1275248020 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't do >braces.py for obvious reasons
< 1275248022 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, you MUST use .bs
< 1275248028 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will accept no other file extension :D
< 1275248034 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bullshit
< 1275248038 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Precisely.
< 1275248045 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The one in which while and for blocks are one level in from the for or while?
< 1275248061 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for (x)
< 1275248062 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  {
< 1275248064 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    ...
< 1275248064 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  }
< 1275248071 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah.
< 1275248072 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two indents to the brace on its own line, then two additional indents to the body.
< 1275248077 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gross, but Python now supports it!
< 1275248079 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  I'm going to go ahead and give it command-line functionality... you can hack the specifics of it to your liking but it'll be pretty straightforward
< 1275248080 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1275248086 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exception to the rule: Functions have their braces at column 0.
< 1275248089 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: it already has it
< 1275248101 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  oh... didn't read down.
< 1275248118 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: what if you want braces on the line with the closing paren?
< 1275248126 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: that also works
< 1275248132 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ok
< 1275248171 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :def hello()
< 1275248171 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        {
< 1275248171 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        print "Hello, world!"
< 1275248171 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        return 2+2 }
< 1275248171 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :def bar() { lozenge(); retard();
< 1275248171 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  violate_wizard();
< 1275248173 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  if x { y
< 1275248175 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :         z
< 1275248177 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :     }}
< 1275248179 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Valid Braces code.
< 1275248228 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  uh... is it safe to edit the braces file in a Python IDE?   :3
< 1275248255 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: No
< 1275248259 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest Emacs in fundamental-mode
< 1275248264 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't figure. Lack of syntax highlighting bugs me. But I'll adjust.
< 1275248275 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, actually
< 1275248279 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As long as the IDE doesn't reformat
< 1275248281 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....never got comfortable with Emacs. I use gedit for non-specific hacking.
< 1275248283 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be fine
< 1275248288 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vimvimvim
< 1275248291 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, as long as it just syntax-highlights, and only autoindents on new lines
< 1275248294 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which you can adjust)
< 1275248314 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most editors you can turn off autoformatting independently from highlighting
< 1275248316 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it's pretty simple.
< 1275248325 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gedit is great for just random shit.
< 1275248333 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is vim
< 1275248344 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't use anything else now
< 1275248347 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just use Emacs because it's a bit bloated piece of crap but I know a few key commands and tab complete the rest away
< 1275248350 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I can't play games
< 1275248354 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's sort of cozy, in the way that a really disorganised, small room is.
< 1275248359 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless I rebind the keys to hjkl
< 1275248361 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: you can play nethack
< 1275248370 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or they're already bound that way to startO
< 1275248410 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  I love playing with extremely extensible software though... so I think if I became familiar with all the important key commands I'd love it.
< 1275248430 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but my computer is kind of slow... so I might wait till I get a new one.
< 1275248435 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit naff, Emacs, really, but then I'm a bit naff.
< 1275248439 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not cool enough for vim.
< 1275248456 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1275248466 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emacs has Nethack.
< 1275248468 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QED.
< 1275248505 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has nethack-el
< 1275248512 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It actually communicates with nethack in s-exps
< 1275248521 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I know.
< 1275248545 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is still a way of playing Nethack while ostensibly working.
< 1275248559 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God, I haven't played Nethack in ages...
< 1275248606 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm bad at Nethack.
< 1275248624 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I died in Sokoban, and then I kind of lost the will to play any more
< 1275248634 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a wand of death in that save, too.
< 1275248691 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And some other cool stuff.
< 1275248712 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if anyone has done timing to game Nethack's RNG
< 1275248716 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1275248722 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course; it's open-source.
< 1275248724 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool.
< 1275248741 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although the code is near-Lovecraftian in its sanity-destroying powers.
< 1275248751 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Everything* is a preprocessor macro.
< 1275248792 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  so... I'm thinking about moving the brace removing code from the central parsing code... is this a bad idea?
< 1275248811 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Yes
< 1275248817 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since blocks should receive their code as braced form
< 1275248820 0 :hiato!~nine@41-132-16-205.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275248823 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they return brace code
< 1275248829 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and python indented code doesn't work in braces
< 1275248859 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  well I was going to have it not do the textual substitution just yet and instead construct a fairly lightweight syntax tree.
< 1275248870 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, go ahead with anything.
< 1275248900 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks at Nethack source.
< 1275248920 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I've gotten rid of it.
< 1275248929 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wishes LambdaMOO was more popular
< 1275248930 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compiling it is also horrible.
< 1275248940 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As is reading it.
< 1275248942 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to edit various makefiles by hand
< 1275248955 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THe language is better than MUSHcode
< 1275248962 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Almost any language is better than MUSHcode]
< 1275249018 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  question, is Braces intended to support regular style Python blocks?
< 1275249027 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION 's lip bleeds
< 1275249029 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: No. Not really.
< 1275249036 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Good for it.
< 1275249119 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  what about currently?
< 1275249140 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: it doesn't
< 1275249143 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it strips whitespace
< 1275249151 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because otherwise
< 1275249152 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} else {
< 1275249152 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :->
< 1275249153 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :}
< 1275249154 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : else {
< 1275249155 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :->
< 1275249157 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : else:
< 1275249161 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> wrongly indented for a 0-column "if"
< 1275249266 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay... good. That makes things easier.
< 1275249331 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1275249424 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, Python already has support for its own syntax tree. So I figured we could go ahead and use that, modify it, and then use the already existing standard lib stuff to reconstruct it back into a string
< 1275249436 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess
< 1275249439 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have fun :P
< 1275249443 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...bad idea? :P
< 1275249457 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're just inventing Metathon here
< 1275249480 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this will give us infix operators though. :D
< 1275249490 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although Python's support for its syntax tree is... weird.
< 1275249509 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah I'm about to play with it to see how its structured
< 1275249535 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
< 1275249538 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell if if if if True then False else True then False else True then False else True then False else True
< 1275249540 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True
< 1275249544 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, LambdaMOO's tutorial is way too long.
< 1275249559 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION whistles innocently
< 1275249754 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Insert your peepee into her vag" --spam
< 1275249762 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How erotic!
< 1275249804 0 :ws!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: BitchX for president.
< 1275249822 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ws was herE?
< 1275249824 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DAMN!
< 1275249847 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please note that we intend that the topology of the LambdaMOO universe be
< 1275249848 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : consistent: rooms should not overlap each other, going east through a door
< 1275249848 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : should be reversable by going west, etc.  Please keep this in mind while
< 1275249848 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : building new areas.
< 1275249850 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BOOOORING
< 1275249881 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should be able to do ANYTHING.
< 1275249885 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :directed apathic graph
< 1275250004 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*apathetic doesn't scan right
< 1275250035 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about going through a door and then back takes you into a room nearly identical to the previous.
< 1275250055 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EXCEPT THAT IT'S MOVED A SQUARE UP.
< 1275250077 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how elevating
< 1275250160 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, Python intermediate parse tree is ridiculous.
< 1275250171 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Yes.
< 1275250173 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do this in Python?
< 1275250176 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could have told you that :P
< 1275250178 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: BECAUSE
< 1275250178 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, stupid question/
< 1275250181 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah :P
< 1275250182 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed.
< 1275250196 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you actually want to do?
< 1275250232 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently the Common Lisp spec is 1300 pages long.
< 1275250233 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make Python AWESOME.
< 1275250235 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What.
< 1275250235 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  the MUD I used to maintain could have exits that take you anywhere... they were restricted to compass directions though. :(  It was a terrible piece of legacy C code.
< 1275250235 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1275250240 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from like 20 years ago
< 1275250260 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: FORMAT is actually a huge language in itself. It can loop over arrays, call arbitrary Lisp functions, and format as two kinds of roman numeral -- normal and archaic (four is IIII).
< 1275250274 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I know.
< 1275250282 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOOP is also mad.
< 1275250285 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1275250292 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for mat in array
< 1275250305 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, FORMAT has the thing that gives you the word form of a number.
< 1275250315 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Common Lisp is glorious excess and grandeur -- in fact, the most superlative of these a gigantic ball of mud has ever been.
< 1275250322 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  hmmm... using the AST might not be useful except later on. So I'll ditch it for now.
< 1275250324 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT IT'S IN AMERICAN FORMAT.
< 1275250349 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: hey if american english was good enough for jesus...
< 1275250365 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the problem with CL is that there's no in-language support for libraries.
< 1275250377 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So *everything* is in the core language.
< 1275250397 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I'd use the AST once we have legal Python code maybe, to walk the tree and implement infix operators or something.
< 1275250403 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that might not even work either
< 1275250406 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah, ditching that.
< 1275250408 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ASDF is the de-facto standard, but it's also hideously complex like CL itself.
< 1275250419 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275250419 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275250422 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: What we basically need to realise is that the actual Python code we want to leave alone
< 1275250423 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ASDF still confuses me.
< 1275250434 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like we want to write it as a BNF with some <text> thing that's just plain text except it avoids delimiters and handles strings itself
< 1275250442 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And we use <text> whenever regular python code would be
< 1275250443 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sort of thing
< 1275250445 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi ais523
< 1275250450 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I made Python likeable for you
< 1275250450 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1275250450 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And zzo38.
< 1275250458 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: hmm, how?
< 1275250461 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sec
< 1275250462 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: at least it's easy to type
< 1275250462 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DON'T TELL HIM
< 1275250463 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guys
< 1275250466 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p1222944752.txt
< 1275250470 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Click and bask in the glory.
< 1275250473 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this is the first time I've actually used workspaces in linux.
< 1275250484 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's helpful when you have four million windows
< 1275250486 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I filter links...
< 1275250496 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :www. vjn.fi/pb/p1222944752.txt
< 1275250499 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: did that appear?
< 1275250505 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Internet became so much more enjoyable when I cut the Web off from the rest
< 1275250505 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EVERYONE STOP TALKING.
< 1275250507 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes
< 1275250511 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: open and bask
< 1275250512 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to actually do stuff.
< 1275250521 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: you can /part
< 1275250541 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1275250567 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: you added braces to Python?
< 1275250585 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: And removed the colons. And added properly-working semicolons! And (# nested (# comments! #) #)
< 1275250593 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's written in itself!
< 1275250595 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT
< 1275250595 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MORE
< 1275250596 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :COULD
< 1275250597 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BE
< 1275250597 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DESIRED
< 1275250606 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  infix operators
< 1275250607 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perfect
< 1275250627 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :amazingly, when seeing it I thought "that looks like Python" and didn't even notice the braces
< 1275250634 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1275250641 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only figured out it was adding braces to Python by trying to work out what it did
< 1275250644 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: some more desirable not-quite-links:
< 1275250652 0 :Halph!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275250653 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :www. vjn.fi/pb/p8786875755.txt debauchery possible with this beautiful gift to humanity
< 1275250663 0 :Halph!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :coppro
< 1275250668 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: note beautiful ``GNU indentation style''
< 1275250676 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too clever, by Halph
< 1275250691 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: here is a bootstrapping binary for Python-model CPUs: www. vjn.fi/pb/p8823673854.txt
< 1275250714 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: wow, you've been busy
< 1275250716 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and finally, here's a look at what's to come when we complete the project of making Python Awesome: www. vjn.fi/pb/p1928734847.txt
< 1275250721 0 :huldumadurin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1275250724 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was this all done on the weekends, or did you figure out a way to do it over the week?
< 1275250725 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes indeed, infix operators, and custom control structures!
< 1275250730 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I've just done it today...
< 1275250742 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty impressive
< 1275250756 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at this rate, you'll end up inventing Perl
< 1275250761 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I said
< 1275250772 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we kept coming up with ideas that just brought it that little bit closer to perl
< 1275250786 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now finally Python has some more useful commands
< 1275250800 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1275250804 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: best praise i could receive
< 1275250818 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that infix/block thing isn't coded yet though
< 1275250821 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet is currently having a go at it
< 1275250909 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does the ".dmg" file contains a lot of stuff, when trying to open it with 7-Zip first I need to extract the .dmg file and then .hfs and then .pax
< 1275250916 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a library in LambdaMOO
< 1275250923 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People are able to check out books
< 1275250937 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also a book listing all check-outs
< 1275250940 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are way too many
< 1275250946 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Including books left in $nothing
< 1275250960 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: sounds like it's an image of an OS X disk
< 1275250960 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is, quite frankly, scary. I think they're gone forever
< 1275250985 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the .pax files would be on the disk's file system, the .hfs file /is/ the file system, the .dmg file is the disk itself, and the .7z file would be compressing that
< 1275250987 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now do you have to program LambdaMOO to recover books
< 1275251021 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7-Zip documentation doesn't mention .pax files
< 1275251032 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: they're backwards-compatible with .tar files
< 1275251032 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It mentions .dmg and .hfs
< 1275251036 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :braces - straightening out python's bite
< 1275251045 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try renaming it to end .tar and seeing if it works
< 1275251059 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it worked when it was .pax
< 1275251068 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did manage to get the files I needed
< 1275251080 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, I should be able to locate as many of the books themselves and return them to me
< 1275251097 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or actually, I think there's a go_home command
< 1275251127 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> the .pax files would be on the disk's file system, the .hfs file /is/ the file system, the .dmg file is the disk itself, and the .7z file would be compressing that
< 1275251129 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The .dmg when extracted contains a file called "2.hfs" and it seems to contain some sort of package files. I didn't need any package files however, just extracting the .pax contained what I needed
< 1275251132 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7zip does non-7z
< 1275251143 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I know, that seems to be confusing zzo38
< 1275251150 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope
< 1275251159 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you were confused by saying the whole thing would be wrapped in a 7z
< 1275251161 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: .dmg is a (possibly-compressed) OS X disk image
< 1275251170 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it'll have been: wrapping, compression, file system
< 1275251171 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: OK, agreed that the whole thing doesn't need to be wrapped
< 1275251175 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The file I was looking for was not available in the other format other than .dmg format, but the files in the .pax were able to be used on cross-platform
< 1275251204 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know it is a disk image, when downloading from source-forge it said so in the MIME type
< 1275251339 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have written only a few program in Python, for solitaire card. (I don't plan to use Python for much else, however) Someone told me Python codes is easy to hack, I think they are correct, I was able to program in these codes without knowing much about Python, so I think they are right
< 1275251390 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, I have at the start of each file "game_id=200002" and stuff like that but is there way to make it set it automatically based on the file-name of the codes, instead?
< 1275251391 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  you use while loops quite well. I generally don't end up using them when I program in Python.
< 1275251400 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275251408 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, if the file is called "200002.py" or "200002.pyc" it should set "game_id=200002"
< 1275251462 0 :hiato!~nine@41-132-16-205.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275251492 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have successfully returned a porn magazine to its rightful location
< 1275251509 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gaspeth
< 1275251519 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: __file__ or something iirc
< 1275251526 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it's really bad style though, maybe even deprecated
< 1275251531 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Cheese it, the cops!" squealed the large-hipped hussy as the vile midget defiled her globular knockers and drove his rapidly dwindling joy stick into her odiferous navel.
< 1275251531 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I'd prefer to use a for and a smarter generator, but eh
< 1275251542 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python doesn't have many control structures
< 1275251547 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Why is it bad style deprecated
< 1275251551 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what.
< 1275251557 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a magical porn magazine. Reading it gives different stuff each time
< 1275251559 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Because it can break things if you move the file, I guess.
< 1275251563 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Ah.
< 1275251583 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I wanted to use it so that you can load the different card-games files by renaming them instead of changing each code
< 1275251613 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you can put the files in plugin directory
< 1275251619 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reads the code for the magical scroll he's using that tells him which books were checked out of the library
< 1275251647 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise someone else can write the plugin with the same game_id numbers and it can be conflicted
< 1275251653 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why
< 1275251783 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275251791 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, sure, when I'm borrowing something, such as a magical list, it's FULLY CAPABLE of flying home
< 1275251876 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Research students still regularly visit the MOO (often sent there by their professors) and start asking users about these events. They are surprised to find that sexual actions are currently used as a form of affectionate greeting."
< 1275251894 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You cannot escape the fundamental nature of the internet
< 1275251904 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  yeah a generator would be nifty... but ultimately to implement the generator you'd have to use the same control structures. Or am I wrong?
< 1275251929 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: you would. unless you used an iterator to emulate a while
< 1275251948 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, __next__ raises that end of iterator error if not-condition
< 1275251954 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise it yields, say, None
< 1275251955 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then
< 1275251962 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for _ in While(lambda: condition) { ... }
< 1275251964 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :voila!
< 1275251965 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:D
< 1275251983 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :News just in, GvR is removing while from Python 4 because it encourages ugly iterating code and can be emulated with for anyway
< 1275251983 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you're getting awfully close to I Put On My Wizard Robe And Hat territory, here
< 1275252113 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea of sexual actions as an affectionate greeting is hilarious
< 1275252113 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course the stuck books aren't magnetic
< 1275252118 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hi there! *sucks your cock*"
< 1275252228 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feynman was a constructivist: "What I cannot create, I do not understand." :P
< 1275252274 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: underflow
< 1275252341 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so, you know unix first edition
< 1275252349 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really
< 1275252355 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using it doesn't mean you know it
< 1275252360 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you haven't used it
< 1275252381 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: have you? you have only used later ones.
< 1275252391 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://code.google.com/p/unix-jun72/ "The unix-jun72 project has scanned in a printout of 1st Edition UNIX from June 1972, and restored it to an incomplete but running system."
< 1275252393 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I meant the first streak of editions
< 1275252396 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Userland binaries and a C compiler have been recovered from other surviving DECtapes."
< 1275252404 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :system 1 or whatever
< 1275252406 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You can try 1st Edition UNIX with the very same emulator.
< 1275252407 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNIX version numbering is confusing
< 1275252410 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: heh
< 1275252413 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it even work?
< 1275252415 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes.
< 1275252424 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://code.google.com/p/unix-jun72/source/browse/trunk/Readme
< 1275252427 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man pages: http://man.cat-v.org/unix-1st/
< 1275252434 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NAME	 sin, cos -- sine cosine
< 1275252435 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SYNOPSIS	 jsr r5,sin (cos)
< 1275252435 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DESCRIPTION	 The sine (cosine) of fr0 (radians) is returned in fr0. Thefloating point simulation should be active in either floating
< 1275252439 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it gave library examples in assembly.
< 1275252445 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1275252451 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes sense, actually
< 1275252455 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was expecting "wow I'ma try this", not "heh" :(
< 1275252466 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The C compiler from 2nd Edition UNIX is also installed and works, but the
< 1275252466 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :language is a very early dialect of C. The closest reference to the language
< 1275252467 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at this point in time is this, but it is probably 2 years too late:
< 1275252467 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/who/dmr/cman74.pdf
< 1275252471 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think 1st Edition /had/ C
< 1275252486 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no cc in the scanned man pages, and the library examples are in asm
< 1275252494 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://man.cat-v.org/unix-1st/1/for had fortran though
< 1275252498 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://man.cat-v.org/unix-1st/1/b and B
< 1275252549 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://man.cat-v.org/unix-1st/6/basic basic :)
< 1275252563 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://man.cat-v.org/unix-1st/1/bas another basic
< 1275252699 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, instead of spending time in a shitty 3d environment, I'm now spending time in a shitty text environment
< 1275252734 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: :D
< 1275252742 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should make my own moo (with blackjack and hookers)
< 1275252808 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  I forgot. Did you say you were going to make an empty brace include a pass?
< 1275252822 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Yes, {} should be pass.
< 1275252841 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lone semicolon should also be pass?
< 1275252928 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  wow... you know I always had trouble figuring out how to make a parser generate useful information about unterminated strings and paren expressions
< 1275252938 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... looking at this source code... it's now very obvious.
< 1275252948 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: you're welcome :P
< 1275252949 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're in a string, and the source is done, it didn't end. :P
< 1275252962 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Of course, you should maintain a stack with (line,col) positions so that the errors can complain where the opener is.
< 1275252968 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm... no.
< 1275252983 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is in C
< 1275252989 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, a semicolon that's otherwise redundant
< 1275252992 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like if(a==b) ;
< 1275253001 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1275253003 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not here
< 1275253007 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since ; is strictly newline-and-indent
< 1275253012 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok
< 1275253014 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you can't tell between
< 1275253015 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if foo ;
< 1275253016 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and
< 1275253018 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo(bar) ;
< 1275253020 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without mor complex analysis
< 1275253021 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if a==b ; {}
< 1275253026 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is legal?
< 1275253031 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks crazy
< 1275253088 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1275253090 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that translates to
< 1275253092 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a==b
< 1275253095 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::
< 1275253100 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, well
< 1275253101 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd change to
< 1275253103 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a==b
< 1275253103 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::
< 1275253106 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : pass
< 1275253106 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now
< 1275253111 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1275253330 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275253596 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It takes forever to find the fixed point of this optimisation function on LostKng.b.
< 1275253603 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1275253609 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Why aren't you adding a backend to that other one?
< 1275253642 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, it helps to make the optimisation function actually recurse beyond the first loop.
< 1275253651 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Because I'm not.
< 1275253660 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But I want to see it :-(
< 1275253663 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be amazing.
< 1275253723 0 :UppunudLamppu!~tuuliax2@a91-153-122-35.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275253872 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe ImageMagick should have a mode to load block JPEG format, to load JPEG without fully decompressing it, so that it is losslessly, such as:  convert blockjpeg:1.jpg blockjpeg:2.jpg
< 1275253874 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-243-205-116.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275253897 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does actually possess lossless JPEG transformations.
< 1275254076 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But according to the document there is some problems with it?
< 1275254085 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I'm worried about whether or not this is just doing an infinite loop.
< 1275254095 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though, it *is* just LostKng. :P
< 1275254098 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: :P
< 1275254110 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It worked on hanoi.b just fine, so...
< 1275254124 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hanoi.b is, obviously, also massively large.
< 1275254263 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  mind if I use camel case?
< 1275254273 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: yes.
< 1275254282 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :underscores are so time consuming. :P But okay.
< 1275254297 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will end up rewriting half your code anyway :-P
< 1275254311 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: BTW, I strongly suggest the extensibility is done via @-commands.
< 1275254319 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which go where a regular statement would -- ; @foo is acceptable, for instance.
< 1275254336 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@compiler { ... } should compile & run the enclosed braces code and put the variables, etc. it binds into some internal hash table.
< 1275254344 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I discovered a massive optimisation on the optimiser.
< 1275254352 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  Yeah I'm just devising a framework and reworking the parsing code so it carries more information around.
< 1275254356 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then the regular "@infix <symbol> a_function_in_compiler_space" where it's called with both arguments
< 1275254360 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make it work by both recursing over the whole thing *and* fix-pointing.
< 1275254378 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "@block <name> a_function_in_compiler_space" makes "block foo { bar }" call block_handler('foo', 'bar') -- which then returns braces code, which is used in place of the block
< 1275254383 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ha
< 1275254386 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compiling hanoi.b takes 1 second instead of 20.
< 1275254395 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: there has to be some "proper" way to do optimisation.
< 1275254417 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: XD
< 1275254426 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just realised what I just said.
< 1275254427 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fine.
< 1275254431 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ?
< 1275254432 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*I made the optimiser faster*.
< 1275254434 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I don't get what's funny :P
< 1275254442 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Optimised the optimiser!"
< 1275254443 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1275254444 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD
< 1275254452 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: My suggestion is thusly: fixpointing over the whole thing is slow, right?
< 1275254474 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So divide it into an even number of pieces; fixpoint all of those, and whenever two adjacent pieces become fixpointed, merge them into one piece and fixpoint them.
< 1275254476 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LostKng now takes 2 seconds to compile. And longer to assemble.
< 1275254479 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Repeat until there is only one piece; fixpoint that.
< 1275254485 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This will work for arbitrary-sized programs.
< 1275254497 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The theory is that after a block is fixedpoint, only the places where it connects to adjacent pieces will need optimisation.
< 1275254504 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So this is edge/"seam" optimisation after chunk optimisation.
< 1275254505 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Now, it finds the fixed-point of "Optimise the entire parsed program".
< 1275254509 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True.
< 1275254523 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suboptimal, but it handles LostKng in 2 seconds.
< 1275254527 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is fast enough, IMO.
< 1275254542 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it optimise multiplications yet?
< 1275254543 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for loops?
< 1275254548 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not yet.
< 1275254585 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nasm takes minutes to *assemble* the output.
< 1275254595 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get the feeling it dislikes thousands of labels. :)
< 1275254679 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But hey, it works. :)
< 1275254720 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How quick?
< 1275254768 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 minutes to assemble LostKng.
< 1275254784 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Massive* amount of labels.
< 1275254839 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The really interesting thing about an optimising BF compiler is that it's more of a decompiler.
< 1275254855 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A bunch of low-level instructions to a printing of "Hello, world!". A bunch of low-level instructions to a for-loop doing a multiplication.
< 1275254857 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc.
< 1275254988 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doop
< 1275255055 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: you know esotope's intermediate language?
< 1275255058 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of a half-assembly half-bf thing
< 1275255060 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a good idea.
< 1275255144 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yeah, if I do much more on this, I'll probably want to implement something like that.
< 1275255155 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd certainly make the code generator function cleaner.
< 1275255330 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  that's cool... (about the BF compiler) and makes sense.
< 1275255344 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  you have a set of very low level operations and need to convert them higher-level constructs.
< 1275255350 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+to
< 1275255473 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a command line utility that lets you window multiple command lines into one desktop environment window?
< 1275255502 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd love to have bash in the same window as this IRC client.
< 1275255933 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/aUBM
< 1275255966 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should really clean up the comp function.
< 1275256127 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sum up, this time without the letter 's'.
< 1275256166 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back
< 1275256189 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: a tabbed terminal emulator.
< 1275256190 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or screen
< 1275256202 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT HAS THE LETTER S.
< 1275256217 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Your mother.
< 1275256226 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm.
< 1275256228 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Syscalls = Read | Write | Indeterm deriving Eq
< 1275256229 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeterm?
< 1275256244 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-inate
< 1275256245 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeterminite which was the last syscall used.
< 1275256247 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Sum up what you've been doing." "Your mother."
< 1275256248 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1275256252 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Weird. Why?
< 1275256275 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I shall have to ask for a Haiku this time.
< 1275256276 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Came after a loop, and I've not bothered doing enough flow analysis to tell.
< 1275256280 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/this/next/
< 1275256405 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IM is a general raster image processor, for modifying images. It will not do lossless JPEG modifications.  But now I invented a idea of the way in which it can do lossless JPEG modifications. The image is formatted such that moving blocks around and flipping/rotating blocks will do the same to the image, while other transformations might not work in the same way
< 1275256409 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want a balanced programming language
< 1275256438 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly funge-like
< 1275256438 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: A balance programming language, for what kind, like, for low-level or high-level or script or whatever??
< 1275256454 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Balanced?
< 1275256455 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What exactly is a "balanced programming language" anyways?
< 1275256464 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in tune with the universe
< 1275256465 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, you want funge like
< 1275256466 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK
< 1275256472 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it has to use balanced ternary
< 1275256492 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if anyone invents a funge-like with balanced ternary
< 1275256495 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make one!
< 1275256533 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: balanced language would always have same number of offs and ons
< 1275256538 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the only information is carried in /where/ they are
< 1275256548 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the = + and - operators will be the tritshift-left, tritshift-left-and-increment, and tritshift-right-and-decrement operators
< 1275256557 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Do funges use bitwise, though?
< 1275256578 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Literals seem like the only thing that would be affected.
< 1275256590 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, quarter-imaginary > anything else.
< 1275256618 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, fibonacci-imaginary
< 1275256630 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would that even work?
< 1275256707 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not :P
< 1275256713 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I suppose if you use INTERCAL operators it can be affected how the bits are stored like??
< 1275256715 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sceptical, though.
< 1275256753 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, i is 10.2 in quarter-imaginary
< 1275256754 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :intuitive
< 1275256759 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... also, you shouldn't be able to cross wires directly. Rather, the < operator, if confronted with an IP coming from the right, will split it into two vertical IPs
< 1275256810 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, from the left
< 1275256815 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: What would the base be for fib-imaginary?
< 1275256837 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: What WOULDN'T be the base.
< 1275256846 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also vertical IPs should need to use | for constants, - is the reflection operator (and vice versa)
< 1275256851 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is going crazy at this point
< 1275256857 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12...
< 1275256872 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well
< 1275256882 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Negafibonacci works
< 1275256888 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er
< 1275256889 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean
< 1275256890 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right
< 1275256891 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phinary
< 1275256895 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is base phi
< 1275256901 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now quarter-imaginary = 1/4 imaginary = base 2i
< 1275256902 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so
< 1275256923 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :base ei
< 1275256934 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n imaginary = base 1/2n i
< 1275256950 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :phimaginary = base 1/2phi i
< 1275256955 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := base 0.30901699... i
< 1275256965 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Highly unintuitive.
< 1275256970 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Combine rules of quarter-imaginary and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_ratio_base.
< 1275256971 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q.E.D.
< 1275256979 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe 2phi i would be better
< 1275256988 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just phi i?
< 1275256996 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is 100i in base 10i?
< 1275257007 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: thingy.
< 1275257023 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for htat
< 1275257025 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*that
< 1275257038 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would it have to be a0?
< 1275257109 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(since 100 would be 100)
< 1275257115 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Any luck?
< 1275257140 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: does quarter-imaginary work like that though?
< 1275257181 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: like how?
< 1275257188 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that
< 1275257190 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and you mean base 0.25i?)
< 1275257194 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you use lossless JPEG you might convert to grayscale as:  blockjpeg:1.jpg -channel GB -evaluate Set 0 blockjpeg:2.jpg  (or, something similar, at least)
< 1275257221 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh, lossless JPEG.
< 1275257230 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :While flipping is just:  blockjpeg:1.jpg -flip blockjpeg:2.jpg
< 1275257276 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  yeah. I code slowly though. nowhere actually implementing anything yet. But I should having something done by the end of today. Got anything you want to change?
< 1275257328 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: if you mean weird, yes
< 1275257335 0 :dbc!~daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275257341 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Yes I do have a request
< 1275257345 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: http://why.usesthis.com/images/interviews/why.4.jpg
< 1275257370 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lossless scaling:  blockjpeg:1.jpg -dctscale 50% blockjpeg:2.jpg
< 1275257380 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should allow things like that
< 1275257385 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The entire set of brilliance: http://why.usesthis.com/)
< 1275257425 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I sip from a peach-colored ring mottle glass lo-ball. the ice cubes I use are semi-circular. and the ice tray itself is a misty blue plastic. my freezer allows 3 trays vertically. the strength of the freezer goes up to 5, but I am personally satisfied with leaving it at 2."
< 1275257432 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a what-programs-do-you-use interview
< 1275257503 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"my favorite software ever is Windows XP, because they colored it to look like the start menu was made from freshly-mowed grass and montana sky! this opened new possibilities for hacker landscapers to send orchards to each other as e-mail attachments. (an entire orchard is 130k if you put it in an APPLES.BIN file.)"
< 1275257514 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"[...] the only other software I use besides windows xp is kjofol."
< 1275257524 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't even seem to make a good sensible
< 1275257559 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: quarter-imaginary allows the use of i. If you used i in base i, 100i would be 100i, but 1000i would be 1000. Weird
< 1275257578 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, neat fact: in base -1+i (or -1-i, which is the same), the set of numbers that share the integer part of a number is a fractal
< 1275257581 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: It's even better because it's in why's handwriting!
< 1275257585 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: He's crazy but I still miss him.
< 1275257607 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He mocked everyone mercilessly but never seemed to be unfriendly, and always had something fun/interesting/cool in the world of programming to point out.
< 1275257817 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1275257887 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I am using a Lemote Yeelong, a netbook with a Loongson chip and a 9-inch display. This is my only computer, and I use it all the time. I chose it because I can run it with 100% free software even at the BIOS level." --rms
< 1275257898 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this guy uses a shitty chinese netbook just to get 100% open source
< 1275257899 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :god bless'im
< 1275257926 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why the hell do you need an open BIOS?
< 1275257929 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Until I can have them both, freedom is my priority. I've campaigned for freedom since 1983, and I am not going to surrender that freedom for the sake of a more convenient computer.
< 1275257929 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do hope to switch soon to a newer model of Yeelong with a 10-inch display."
< 1275257930 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: because he's rms
< 1275257934 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be wrong for him not to
< 1275257945 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But he can't even change it?
< 1275257964 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FFS does he want the HDL sources for the processors?
< 1275257966 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  .....was that a request?
< 1275257978 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seemed more like spam to me. ;)
< 1275257978 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275257990 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: it's not my fault why is (well, was) a beautiful artist.
< 1275258002 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What happened to him?
< 1275258036 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: every single account and internet prescense he owned save, uh, I think an almost-empty vimeo account, were completely wiped out overnight. By him.
< 1275258058 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :His GitHub account with all his code, his current & discontinued blogs, his Twitter account, his YouTube account, ... everything.
< 1275258062 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who was he?
< 1275258063 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Disappeared, just like that. Internet suicide.
< 1275258066 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Nobody knows.
< 1275258076 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, that takes dedication.
< 1275258083 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, he went to conferences occasionally and played silly songs about Ruby with his band...
< 1275258090 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody knew his name though, not for sure.
< 1275258125 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also think ImageMagick should support audio formats, which if loaded, load as a image with height=1. You can have red channel = left channel, blue channel = right channel. And use -density operator to set the sample rate. -flop to reverse a sound. Some of the other ImageMagick operators are also useful for audio
< 1275258130 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a real shame because he was one of my heroes basically.
< 1275258140 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And he had a lot of wonderful programs and code that he can't give his wonderful touch to any more.
< 1275258145 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'll always miss hackety.org.
< 1275258166 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a feeling he's not going to come back -- and if he does it won't be the same personality, so we'll never know.
< 1275258196 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you think some of ImageMagick operators are useful for audio files, which ones do you think are best?
< 1275258226 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Really bad compression of music by using JPEG!
< 1275258246 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that would certainly be bad for music, JPEG is meant for photographs
< 1275258258 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although, perhaps someone should try it just to see how bad it is, in fact
< 1275258277 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone has
< 1275258281 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sounded as awful as you'd expect
< 1275258285 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes
< 1275258286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yeah D&D was nice
< 1275258286 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: zzo38
< 1275258286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night
< 1275258298 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, what?
< 1275258340 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is magically teleporting books from nowhereland to the library
< 1275258359 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the library is awesome
< 1275258362 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do not mock the library
< 1275258400 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except for all the non-magnetic books
< 1275258516 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Even functions are functions! I invented this concept. Just like Steve Jobs will one day." --why
< 1275258532 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fail to get it.
< 1275258544 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume that there is context.
< 1275258569 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, first-edition UNIX is weird.
< 1275258622 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Here’s a case where a list is being called as a function. Yes, everything is a function! We could also have called: foods (index=2).
< 1275258622 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strings, tables, numbers are also functions. The following returns the 3rd character of the string.
< 1275258622 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  "ă(^_^ă)(ăŽ^_^)ăŽ" (2)
< 1275258622 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even functions are functions! I invented this concept. Just like Steve Jobs will one day.]]
< 1275258683 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks suspiciously Japanese.
< 1275258709 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any clue on why he disappeared?
< 1275258736 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well, Ruby is Japanese.
< 1275258739 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: who knows.
< 1275258751 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My guesses:
< 1275258772 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- People were starting to poke at his identity, which he probably didn't like
< 1275258777 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it may well have been the Illuminati?
< 1275258777 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- Some of his last few tweets:
< 1275258781 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :programming is rather thankless. you see your works become replaced by superior works in a year. unable to run at all in a few more.
< 1275258781 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you program and want any longevity to your work, make a game. all else recycles, but people rewrite architectures to keep games alive.
< 1275258782 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh i’m just so totally suspicious of anyone who claims to love progress but stridently defends the status quo!!
< 1275258789 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just found evidence that LambdaMOO is a Myst game
< 1275258794 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: That it is.
< 1275258818 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--why
< 1275258868 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the point of Ruby?
< 1275258893 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be a new-generation dynamic language that isn't as strict as Python... essentially.
< 1275258893 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's so flexible it's like asbestos dust!
< 1275258895 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*fibers
< 1275258907 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :**whatever
< 1275258909 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strict in terms of syntax
< 1275258923 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python and Ruby originate from the same time.
< 1275258927 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ruby is actually matzlisp.
< 1275258964 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :matz...?
< 1275259039 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :matz is the creator of Ruby.
< 1275259067 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ruby was originally called matzlisp; he plugged in a Smalltalk-style object system and reworked the syntax. And made lambdas uglier, so he added "blocks" which are like limited lambdas that you can only have one of per function call.
< 1275259081 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not /that/ bad a language.
< 1275259093 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally
< 1275259099 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Larry Wall -- Christian
< 1275259106 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Matsumoto Yukihiro -- Mormon
< 1275259107 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :COINCIDENCE?
< 1275259109 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think not.
< 1275259163 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1275259173 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEEDZ MOAR DATA
< 1275259197 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is McCarthy?
< 1275259325 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which McCarthy?
< 1275259336 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lisp McCarthy.
< 1275259345 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Probably agnostic/atheist.
< 1275259354 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Religious people usually object to the idea of AI.
< 1275259357 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially back in the 70s.
< 1275259363 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: YOU DON'T KNOW MCCARTHY? HOW UNAMERICAN
< 1275259366 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And in the US.
< 1275259395 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to hug McCarthy and other people :(
< 1275259398 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEY WILL DIE SOON THAT IS NOT GOOD
< 1275259399 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: True, but they'll be laughing at us when the robots take over.
< 1275259403 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I find it amusing that it was called the "Committee on UnAmerican Activities".
< 1275259423 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As though they wanted to be *doing* unAmerican activities.
< 1275259426 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Were hyphens communist?
< 1275259433 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes.
< 1275259509 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :preEmptive.
< 1275259523 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the King's English book suggested that would be good instead of hyphens iirc, but said it was too radical to adopt
< 1275259750 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CamelCase is generally ugly.
< 1275259759 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Particularly when handwritten
< 1275259798 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CamelCase is indeed ugly.
< 1275259854 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer the diaeresis: "preëmptive".
< 1275259855 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell putStrLn "\001swats Phantom_Hoover and alise -----###\001"
< 1275259860 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops
< 1275259863 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION
< 1275259872 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell putStrLn "\001ACTION swats Phantom_Hoover and alise -----###\001"
< 1275259873 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats Phantom_Hoover and alise -----###
< 1275259890 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell putStrLn "\nQUIT :butt"
< 1275259895 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :preemptive aww.
< 1275259926 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell putStrLn "\001QUIT :butt\001"
< 1275259946 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quit butt.
< 1275260524 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275260622 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1275260723 0 :huldumadurin!~chatzilla@88.85.56.240 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275260763 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huldumadurin.
< 1275260765 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a name
< 1275260801 0 :huldumadurin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hehe.
< 1275260807 0 :huldumadurin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's Faroese.
< 1275260814 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah.
< 1275260814 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1275260823 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to know that language now.
< 1275260831 0 :huldumadurin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Faroese is awesome.
< 1275260839 0 :huldumadurin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or: FĂ¸royskt er Ăłgvuliga kul.
< 1275260870 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, who are you then?
< 1275260881 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huldumadurin: i thought you were icelandic, was just about to ask you about Besti flokkurin
< 1275260903 0 :huldumadurin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just a random Faroese 17-year-old with a newfound interest in Esoteric Languages.
< 1275260907 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ?
< 1275260915 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huldumadurin: Well, that's certainly an interesting combination.
< 1275260942 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm an English 14-year-old with a long-established interest in esoteric languages.
< 1275260944 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi.
< 1275260949 0 :huldumadurin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi.
< 1275260954 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: a joke party won the local elections in iceland's capital
< 1275260959 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I'm male despite the nickname. Long, and ultimately pointlessly boring, story.
< 1275260963 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ha!
< 1275260964 0 :huldumadurin!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hehe.
< 1275260970 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what's their platform
< 1275260970 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a Scottish 1X year old with a semi-long history in esolangs.
< 1275260993 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: some serious and some silly
< 1275261002 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: how boring
< 1275261011 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1X year old; so assuming X is 10 and this is base 11...
< 1275261019 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're 21 years old.
< 1275261030 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still wish that Mad Cap'n Tom had won.
< 1275261031 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/10194757.stm
< 1275261031 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do the dozenal society guys use?
< 1275261033 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of them is X
< 1275261040 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: No.
< 1275261042 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Key pledges included "sustainable transparency", free towels at all swimming pools and a new polar bear for the city zoo."
< 1275261045 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the best" xD
< 1275261050 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A case can also be made for 9.
< 1275261085 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed, you are nine years old
< 1275261181 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The party also called for a Disneyland at the airport and a "drug-free parliament" by 2020."
< 1275261195 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes. And let that be the end of it.
< 1275261195 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes :D
< 1275261205 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm when did i first start coming here
< 1275261207 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when i was 12 i think
< 1275261215 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a brief stint when 11, perhaps
< 1275261217 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1275261228 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::3
< 1275261230 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am making you feel old presently.
< 1275261240 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not actually sure if I had broadband when I was 11.
< 1275261253 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'cuz you need broadband to access irc (ok but i did)
< 1275261294 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't have the internet at all until I was 8.
< 1275261304 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is pretty sure he didn't have broadband when he was 11.
< 1275261316 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And before that we only had a crappy Windows machine
< 1275261325 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seeing as that was in '81.
< 1275261331 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: They didn't *have* broadband when you were 11.
< 1275261355 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: quite possibly not
< 1275261375 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got internet at 5 or 6 or something
< 1275261382 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This may explain why I am fucked up!
< 1275261407 0 :T-T!~tuuliax2@a91-153-122-35.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275261414 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't actually learn to program until I was 13.
< 1275261451 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I learnt to do basic output when I was 12.
< 1275261453 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8-10 or something was my first steps
< 1275261457 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i started properly programming at like 12
< 1275261460 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: some 10 years from now it will be discovered that everyone who starts internet that young goes insane when they grow up
< 1275261468 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i still think of my programming self one or two years ago as quite immature...
< 1275261468 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my kids aren't gonna learn "mama" or "papa" as their first words
< 1275261471 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are gonna learn "hello world"
< 1275261473 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I am already insane!
< 1275261475 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the state proves it
< 1275261477 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then because of my school's insane curriculum I didn't touch one of their computers for a year.
< 1275261482 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi: please don't have kids :D
< 1275261485 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1275261488 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: well you're precocious [sp]
< 1275261496 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o.
< 1275261496 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: WHYEVER WOULD YOU SAY THAT
< 1275261500 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/
< 1275261500 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :         |
< 1275261500 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        /`\
< 1275261505 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i try to stay on the asshole side of things
< 1275261506 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i can
< 1275261508 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*when i can
< 1275261553 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I learnt to program in Pascal.
< 1275261561 0 :UppunudLamppu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1275261567 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which I didn't like at the time.
< 1275261582 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then I changed school and they taught programming in Javascript.
< 1275261584 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my favourite language is -- i don't have one :(
< 1275261590 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*With IE 5*
< 1275261592 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe J, J is pretty flawless but it doesn't do much
< 1275261597 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: JScript then not javascript :P
< 1275261616 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You expect them to pay that sort of attention to detail?
< 1275261649 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For exam purposes, a macro has nothing to do with text substitution, it is a script in a word processor.
< 1275261699 0 :T-T!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1275261929 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275262140 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Y'know what'd be totally awesome to implement?
< 1275262150 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Love!
< 1275262166 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Replacing each and every one of the algorithms on the "Brainfuck algorithms" page with their equivalents in assembly.
< 1275262242 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :llvm bc
< 1275262268 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lightweight love machine
< 1275262288 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: What kind of assembly?
< 1275262290 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...And no.
< 1275262293 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's too ... specific.
< 1275262299 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most uses of the algorithm will be tweaked slightly...
< 1275262308 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like hard-wiring hello world program to an efficient version
< 1275262311 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or lostkng to a hand-optimised version
< 1275262322 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1275262330 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h21.7.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275262335 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Among other things.
< 1275262584 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1275262587 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1275262652 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1275262744 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275262771 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1275263064 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1275263145 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h14.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275263505 0 :CakeProp1et!~adam@h155.15.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275263517 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1275263586 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death
< 1275263824 0 :CakeProp1et!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1275263899 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night
< 1275263955 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h155.15.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275264206 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1275264835 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1275264964 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275265261 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"And if there's anything that genitals need, it's a surjective sin function."
< 1275265844 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-243-205-116.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275265897 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@150.140.227.55 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275266167 0 :huldumadurin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1275267274 0 :Portponky!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: chicken is nature's potato
< 1275267924 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, LambdaMOO feels like Alphaworld in some ways
< 1275267928 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a ghost place
< 1275267957 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: un momento
< 1275268127 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275268227 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is sex still used as a greeting
< 1275268491 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1275269597 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :testing connection 1, 2 ,3
< 1275269632 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong
< 1275269662 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hi ais523!
< 1275269675 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: design your perfect language in one IRC line
< 1275269688 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, tricky
< 1275269695 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what my perfect lang would be like
< 1275269712 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275269721 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in general, I tend to use different langs for different types of problems
< 1275269727 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: perfect lang as of your current understanding
< 1275269729 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :general purpose
< 1275269741 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION writes down his guess as to what you'll come up with
< 1275269744 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not being vaporware is pretty important
< 1275269747 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*her, stupid nick pronouns!
< 1275269753 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I might have to use an existing one, like Perl
< 1275269764 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: just the actual core language design, and a new one; plus one short code sample
< 1275269770 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one or two lines. go :D
< 1275269771 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I'm thinking that I should *really* make this thing compile into something halfway between assembly and Brainfuck to make some optimisations easier.
< 1275269785 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Or just add a backend to the bfc
< 1275269788 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bf2c
< 1275269789 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a really really hard question...
< 1275269789 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever
< 1275269794 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: This is more entertaining!
< 1275269797 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok, just /one/ of your best languages then
< 1275269813 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: you basically want asm with structured loops
< 1275269820 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq:  maybe make a virtual instruction set that has some elements of BF and some elements of most computer architectures
< 1275269826 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'd say it's something that's flexible enough that you can implement pretty much what you want in it, making it into another language; but the stdlib's good enough that you don't have to unless you really want to
< 1275269827 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then optimize that.
< 1275269848 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: less abstract than that: paradigm, basic syntax, basic structure of typical code
< 1275269855 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll get other people to do one too I swear >_>
< 1275269861 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :syntax is unimportant...
< 1275269862 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: And then after that turn it into jumps and then finally output code.
< 1275269886 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just because good god I hate how ugly just going loops->assembly looks)
< 1275269894 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I have language ideas, unless it's an idea for a silly eso syntax, the lang doesn't even have a syntax until I start to implement it, usually
< 1275269913 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, i don't mean syntax on that level
< 1275269916 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean more... structural syntax
< 1275269925 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, any statement/expression divisions, how expressions are structures
< 1275269927 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*structured
< 1275269929 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like sometimes I start to say sentences, and then realise one of the words I want to use doesn't exist
< 1275269935 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just thinking of a really brief, 2-line overview plus one tiny code sample
< 1275269936 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which incidentally I consider proof that people don't think in English)
< 1275269981 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I'd have X/Y divisions for any X and Y, though, except maybe for strong static typing
< 1275270002 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the langs I work with at university, like ICA, statement is just a data type
< 1275270012 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and things like semicolons are operators that work on that type
< 1275270030 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STOP DODGING THE QUESTION :D
< 1275270055 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I don't know the answer, so I'm at least trying to give a bit of an answer, even if it's not a fully satisfactory one
< 1275270072 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fine then
< 1275270076 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile, let's admire this code: http://esolangs.org/files/brainfuck/impl/bf2c.hs
< 1275270121 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, the upgrade to Ubuntu Lucid seems to have worked quite well
< 1275270128 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :major downside: the system no longer recognises headphones
< 1275270145 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :major upsides: pulseaudio no longer causes programs using it to crash, the graphics works really really well
< 1275270167 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Adanaxis is working for the first time ever on this computer, so I'm pretty pleased with that
< 1275270268 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Adanaxis?
< 1275270330 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4-d shoot-em-up
< 1275270354 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION redoes his optimisation structure somewhat while he's at it
< 1275270358 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fourth dimension's represented as red-green, also the coordinates of everything are shown on a little HUD
< 1275270376 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mushware.com/
< 1275270439 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: upside: the new theme is pretty
< 1275270447 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I changed to it
< 1275270453 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then put the window decorations back how they were before
< 1275270469 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turns out I use the window menu a lot, who'd have known
< 1275270481 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bind it to right click?
< 1275270486 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact it is right click
< 1275270490 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and to get it in the new theme, you have to right-click the title bar, which is tricky with a touchpad
< 1275270496 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1275270497 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alt-click then
< 1275270498 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or sth
< 1275270513 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I didn't see any reason to change a placement which is arbitrary anyway from the setting I had before
< 1275270555 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the new theme partly just because it annoys the sort of people who say purple+orange never works
< 1275270584 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although admittedly the theme itself is mostly grey
< 1275270680 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not orange at all
< 1275270682 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's mostly dark brown
< 1275270685 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and light beige for text
< 1275270692 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(very very dark greyish brown)
< 1275270718 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange, maybe I customized it somehow by accident
< 1275270720 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say with dotfiles
< 1275270783 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I'm making my optimiser into multiple functions with obvious purposes so I don't hate myself!
< 1275270846 0 :CakeProp1et!~adam@h0.22.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275270851 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: screeny?
< 1275270862 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1275270886 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm in a room in LambdaMOO called Utilitarian Utopia
< 1275270907 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1275270961 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :making one atm
< 1275271008 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://imgur.com/iOYDM.png
< 1275271012 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, come to LambdaMOO?
< 1275271016 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: no account
< 1275271021 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, get one
< 1275271023 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's easy!
< 1275271029 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's not orange :P
< 1275271033 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: i have to wait 1 day to get it
< 1275271035 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh
< 1275271041 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I take it you already did it?
< 1275271042 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: there's orange used, but not by default
< 1275271043 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1275271045 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1275271047 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :things like selected buttons have orange highlights
< 1275271053 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, true
< 1275271055 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, orange isn't on the screen except when you interact with it
< 1275271066 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: i'm only interested if they really do use sexual acts as colloquial greetings though because that's just hilarious
< 1275271087 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, right now, there's not much "they"
< 1275271104 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are maybe 2 people or so besides me actually active. Hopefully that's due to the weekend
< 1275271104 0 :CakeProp1et!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1275271111 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, *labor day weekend
< 1275271137 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h11.26.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275271184 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a holiday in the UK today (Monday) too
< 1275271199 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
< 1275271206 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just an arbitrary holiday chosen for when the weather's often good, I don't think it has any significance
< 1275271208 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is refreshing
< 1275271296 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275271705 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: So, my intermediate code is now having an "offset from current pointer" argument for everything...
< 1275271765 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which should open me up to a decent number of *other* optimisations.
< 1275271917 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1275272053 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And splitting up the optimiser into multiple functions makes it much nicer-looking.
< 1275273024 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1275273280 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f
< 1275273332 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275273360 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The root of the hierarchy of LambdaMOO is located in a package
< 1275273371 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A "rather unassuming cardboard box"
< 1275273401 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i still don't have my account
< 1275273405 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i'll just imitate you
< 1275273412 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can login as a guest
< 1275273455 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Testing this in GHCI, I can get this:
< 1275273456 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :">-[<->+++++++]<-.>++++[<+++++++>-]<+.+++++++..+++.>----[<+++>----]<.------------.>--[<->---]<+.--------.+++.------.--------.>----[<+++>----]<.>------[<---->+]<+."
< 1275273459 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :into this:
< 1275273462 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Add 1 (-1),Loop 1 [Add 0 (-1),Add 1 7],Add 0 (-1),Out,Add 1 4,Loop 1 [Add 0 7,Add 1 (-1)],Add 0 1,Out,Add 0 7,Out,Out,Add 0 3,Out,Add 1 (-4),Loop 1 [Add 0 3,Add 1 (-4)],Out,Add 0 (-12),Out,Add 1 (-2),Loop 1 [Add 0 (-1),Add 1 (-3)],Add 0 1,Out,Add 0 (-8),Out,Add 0 3,Out,Add 0 (-6),Out,Add 0 (-8),Out,Add 1 (-4),Loop 1 [Add 0 3,Add 1 (-4)],Out,Add 1 (-6),Loop 1 [Add 0 (-4),Add 1 1],Add 0 1,Out]
< 1275273489 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Holy. Crap.
< 1275273507 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I now contain a rather unassuming cardboard box.
< 1275273509 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm, offset-from-current-pointer.
< 1275273667 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, are you Russet Guest?
< 1275273698 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm no guest -- why?
< 1275273705 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Sgeo_> I now contain a rather unassuming cardboard box.
< 1275273709 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great, you are bigger than lambdamoo
< 1275273712 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you broke their topology
< 1275273714 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's against the rules
< 1275273723 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION connects
< 1275273728 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: now make it bettar
< 1275273732 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: do linear loop optimisation
< 1275273739 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can completely deloop any loop with balanced < and > and no io
< 1275273752 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: how do i get where you are
< 1275273772 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, try @join Sgeo
< 1275273828 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You join Sgeo.
< 1275273828 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You begin to move into the room but encounter some resistance. With a snap
< 1275273829 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : you're catapulted back where you came from.
< 1275273829 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either Yellow_Guest doesn't want to go, or La Cantina de los HARD AGAINST THE
< 1275273829 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : GAYS didn't accept it.
< 1275273834 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Let me make sure I get proper code output first. ;)
< 1275273845 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Currently, "Hello, world" doesn't work correctly.
< 1275273849 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers neuter or splat gender
< 1275273858 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: what's the private chat again?
< 1275273865 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it have one
< 1275273871 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I think there's a whisper thing
< 1275273888 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you use it
< 1275273891 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm assuming I've just done something rather stupid on the code generator.
< 1275273981 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: so how do i teleport somewhere >_>
< 1275273985 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also splat or neuter what do you think
< 1275274110 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which of course I did.
< 1275274111 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug*
< 1275274115 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, @go
< 1275274123 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go where
< 1275274127 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can add rooms to your easy-@go list with @rooms
< 1275274135 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll show you a hotel like thing
< 1275274139 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The *end* of a loop also needs to keep track of its offset. XD
< 1275274141 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i wanna see the library
< 1275274149 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok
< 1275274150 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: or just have that be a mutation...
< 1275274156 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW there's a map you can get to with help map
< 1275274162 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Or that.
< 1275274163 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: [>>] will work right?
< 1275274167 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it has to mutate anyway
< 1275274167 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not a perfect map
< 1275274172 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@rose makes things easy
< 1275274178 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm in library
< 1275274193 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Shouldn't have to mutate for >[<->+]
< 1275274196 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do i see people in thise room
< 1275274200 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: but [>>]
< 1275274219 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, of *course* that does.
< 1275274231 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, look
< 1275274290 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem is that currently, I'm generating (psuedocode) "b: if(p[1]) goto e;--*p;p[1]++;e: if(*p) goto b"
< 1275274297 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is of course wrong.
< 1275274325 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: well that's a stupid way of modelling it
< 1275274335 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: It's called a *bug*.
< 1275274347 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bugs tend to be stupid.
< 1275274902 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275275022 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1275275380 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now is the time for linear loop optimisation!
< 1275275410 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then, make my code generation not a hack!
< 1275275588 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :pikhq
< 1275275594 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: btw [add n] terminates iff some extended euclidean algorithm on n returns some result
< 1275275597 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forget exactly
< 1275275958 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :     64             return Conjunction(*realranges)
< 1275275958 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :     65         elif isinstance(cond, Conjunction):
< 1275275958 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :     66             return Conjunction(*map(self.adoptcond, cond))
< 1275275958 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :     67         elif isinstance(cond, Disjunction):
< 1275275958 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :     68             return Disjunction(*map(self.adoptcond, cond))
< 1275275960 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esotope sure is complex
< 1275275972 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1275275979 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: [add n] requires you to do extended euclidean algorithm
< 1275275981 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get a loop that is basically
< 1275275994 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Hmm? Explain further?
< 1275275995 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (current tape cell % result_of_algo == 0) /* or something */ { infinloop }
< 1275276009 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or sth
< 1275276014 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ as in loop
< 1275276016 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[+^n]
< 1275276017 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you aren't here with me. Why not?
< 1275276023 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Oh*.
< 1275276059 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you can see whether or not that can terminate, and replace it with either Set 0 or infinloop.
< 1275276070 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, I'll have to figure out how to do that.
< 1275276078 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it's in esotope source
< 1275276083 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look for the extended euclidean algorithm
< 1275276084 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesome.
< 1275276085 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Utilitarian Utopia = #4965
< 1275276100 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In case both alise and myself forget, and we all steal everything
< 1275276152 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Hmm. Just a few questions: low-hanging fruits ATM = ?
< 1275276171 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: linear loop -- definitely; and also more complex loops than while
< 1275276171 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Simple loop handling?
< 1275276179 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if, for instance -- and also recognizing seeks like [>>]
< 1275276187 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the idea of an if-where
< 1275276188 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275276192 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go does it... but with terrible syntax
< 1275276202 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if-where?
< 1275276209 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (cond) where (binding)
< 1275276223 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of the weird (x=2)==2   idiom
< 1275276251 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go does it... but it's stupid. the binding goes first
< 1275276252 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's like
< 1275276363 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: So, then. Try and get "-[<->+++++++]<-" into the more obvious thing. Got it. :)
< 1275276368 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise stole all the library functions' containers
< 1275276537 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1275276551 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay quine: "34SZSrOsDrFe
< 1275276589 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: CAN I EAT THEM
< 1275276929 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h144.36.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275277029 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: any luck w/ my code?
< 1275277117 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah... no luck with the wireless though. it's storming.
< 1275277134 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :??
< 1275277134 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was the macro code supposed to look like?
< 1275277148 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my wireless, that is. I did not give your compiler wireless support. :P
< 1275277151 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p8884766854.txt
< 1275277170 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275277171 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then
< 1275277172 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(#
< 1275277172 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Example:
< 1275277172 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :def f(*args) { return args }
< 1275277172 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :g = f&(1,2,3)
< 1275277172 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless g(4,5,6) == [1,2,3,4,5,6] {
< 1275277174 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    print "Something is seriously wrong!"
< 1275277176 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :}
< 1275277178 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#)
< 1275277188 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p5345871812.txt code and example in one
< 1275277293 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1275277396 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1275277504 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, we didn't get all the utilities
< 1275277509 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nuu
< 1275277532 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$wiz_utils is located in ur-Rog
< 1275277840 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h95.3.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275277941 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1275277943 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ping
< 1275277978 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong
< 1275278049 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1275278079 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275278106 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275278114 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some people at FreeGeek like to say "Ping" and "Pong" to each-other, even.
< 1275278327 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything in the universe is ultimate a type of object currently being held in a package by alise
< 1275278354 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1275278417 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1275278420 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1275278471 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
< 1275279172 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Lag: 99.76"
< 1275279178 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck this connection.
< 1275279320 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-243-205-116.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275279395 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4:16 am lah
< 1275279483 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, :/
< 1275279489 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh
< 1275279489 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bed soon
< 1275279526 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1275279577 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, give me the utilities now
< 1275279591 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOA
< 1275279594 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, they don't seem to want to be moved
< 1275279594 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do a mahjong game, you will flip over one tile even though is same upside-down, other player will think you don't have that one, and then you can win. (MCR has all-same-upsidedown as a scoring combination. MCR is full of bad stuff)
< 1275279594 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND BESIDES I DISCONNECT
< 1275279597 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BY MISTAKE
< 1275279603 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1275279613 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the utilities are stuck in a guest body
< 1275279621 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha sweet
< 1275279623 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell a wizard
< 1275279703 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I can get most of them out
< 1275279708 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just not the Hydrolics
< 1275279870 0 :MizardX-!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275279974 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps we can make a modern kind of the Abundance system, using Gforth. This way we can use a real free software license (Abundance includes non-free components and requires that it not be used for military use). Perhaps this new system can be called Exuberance?
< 1275280060 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1275280076 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or perhaps not.
< 1275280079 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MizardX
< 1275280179 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you think the MCR rules for mahjong is stupid? Riichi is superior. WSoM is also better than MCR
< 1275280188 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I prefer AERM
< 1275280203 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SFIUHE
< 1275280227 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does "SFIUHE" means?
< 1275280247 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275280276 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck this Internet connection.
< 1275280390 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h139.28.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275280513 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm.. irssi is pretty sophisticated.
< 1275280930 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4:41
< 1275280935 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: bed soon i swear. don't hit me
< 1275280948 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I think I figured out how to get #1 out of the package
< 1275280961 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  you know, if you use __slots__ you could make a way to declare memory efficient instance variables on objects.
< 1275281218 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  I am now to the point that I have a massive, non-tested and most likely buggy compiler that's just a few more tweaks away from being done. :)
< 1275281277 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: show the code!
< 1275281279 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plz
< 1275281470 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  ...not yet. It's too crazy to make sense yet.
< 1275281505 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's actually a legitimate parser though... and easy to extend
< 1275281525 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...but untested. It's just the design that I like. :)
< 1275281526 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww please? I'm going to bed like now, so...
< 1275281555 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  ...it's not really going to make any sense if you read it right now. I haven't implemented everything yet.
< 1275281599 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll show you tomorrow... if you're going to bed like now.
< 1275281609 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's only midnight here. :)
< 1275281707 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can read any code.
< 1275281710 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even oklopol's.
< 1275281715 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 4:54 am here
< 1275281759 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Discovery: If you give someone the package, and the Root Class isn't in it, the package will grab the Root Class and put it in it
< 1275281824 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Pyongyang Hardcore Resistance is an underground anarchist movement in North Korea. Their music has been smuggled from North Korea through underground contacts and can be downloaded from their MySpace page.
< 1275281876 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  I can't allow it to be seen in such a half-fucked-up condition
< 1275281878 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Wait what?
< 1275281885 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: /msg it then
< 1275281889 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm working on it though...
< 1275281894 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean... at all. Until I stabilize it.
< 1275281895 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :“This is electronic hardcore music from Pyongyang’s underground anarchist movement! I have received these tracks on tapes and CDs from my North-Korean refugee contacts in China. They have helped to smuggle this material. PHR is an extreme electronic music duo in Pyongyang. The other part of the duo moved to North-Korea to his family and introduced hardcore techno to his friend who has lived his whole life in NK. I’m not Pyongyang Hardcore Resistance, o
< 1275281895 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :r a member of it. Just spreading this to let the world know the underground resistance is fighting! My identity and my contacts’ identities shall remain secret as we are fucking paranoid about North-Korean spies! This is a FUCK YOU from North-Korean underground to corrupted leaders Kim Jong Il and Lee Myung Bak! This is also a FUCK YOU to both South-Korean and North-Korean popular music that try to keep the masses dumb and obedient! This is the bassdrum of
< 1275281896 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : truth exported to you straight from Pyongyang! Peace in people, violence in music!”
< 1275281900 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: :'(
< 1275281903 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MAY KOED
< 1275281906 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I DESERVES'T
< 1275281907 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm working on it though.
< 1275281947 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  I'm having trouble thinking out the implementation
< 1275281957 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's like... a non-deterministic tree of sorts.
< 1275281957 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FAIN
< 1275282105 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically you have coroutines as parser elements... if they see a pattern that they turn into a token... they'll start looking ahead in state until they either a) don't match their pattern completely or b) complete successfully and output the tokens they've constructed
< 1275282153 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: I'm not tired right now, because I got up at 12am last night. I'm talking to people. I promise I will go to bed at some point.
< 1275282158 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I request leave from bed-duty?
< 1275282180 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, don't you need to be not-tired during the week?
< 1275282181 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the crawler is managing an arbitrary number of these things... communicating with them through each cycle of iteration
< 1275282186 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because coroutines are awesome like that.
< 1275282188 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: i have monday off
< 1275282195 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: and no, not really.
< 1275282196 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D:D:D
< 1275282231 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: :D?
< 1275282235 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so as you can see
< 1275282243 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5:03am but i am not tired, it is already as light as it will get anyway, and i am talking
< 1275282244 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so
< 1275282251 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :leave from bed duty granted?
< 1275282265 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, if you think you'll be able to go to bed tonight, sure
< 1275282277 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 xkcd
< 1275282365 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My character is not big cockroach and has no exoskeleton. And Obkwag does not have a capability to fly, and they have no wings. (The DM sometimes forgets these things)
< 1275282386 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 City of Reality
< 1275283042 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fr
< 1275283110 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1275283126 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@bas5-toronto47-1088893966.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275283167 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :en
< 1275283175 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe ca
< 1275283178 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fr is ambiguous
< 1275283193 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, bye alise
< 1275283198 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see you next week
< 1275283203 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, wrong
< 1275283215 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: WRONG AGAIN SUNSHINE.
< 1275283316 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, I see
< 1275283325 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice
< 1275283331 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet sweet freedom
< 1275283509 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a day.
< 1275283933 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do *you* think about the things the DM nearly always forgets, like this?
< 1275284070 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think of a hopeless cheesecake swimming in the ocean
< 1275284124 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I will pay you five billion karma points to see the compiler
< 1275284320 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :locoMOOOOTIVES
< 1275284328 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you are still here?
< 1275284424 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort-of
< 1275284464 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't been paying attention for hours
< 1275284596 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: when'd you awaken?
< 1275284635 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't been asleep...
< 1275284642 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll go to bed during the day, probably
< 1275284649 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see the compiler and raise the linker
< 1275284651 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so you woke at normal time yesterday
< 1275284657 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok, do you have to be up on tuesday?
< 1275284662 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are basically my model of a reasonable person
< 1275284668 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i will base my life decisions on you
< 1275284673 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: for Python?
< 1275284681 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just Braces (aka BS) :P
< 1275284685 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: yes, on Tuesday
< 1275284691 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but not Monday?
< 1275284693 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: poker joke
< 1275284698 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: i know
< 1275284704 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1275284714 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: no, it's a holiday
< 1275284734 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: then you are clearly a reasonable man just like me
< 1275284743 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who just happens to have a crippling sleep disorder.
< 1275284931 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: we should probably do this for python 3
< 1275284936 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Since we're throwing backwards compatibility away.
< 1275285351 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  alright...
< 1275285360 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: alright to what :P
< 1275285484 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: EH.
< 1275285910 0 :augur!~augur@modemcable158.221-59-74.mc.videotron.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275285924 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey guyses
< 1275285941 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.
< 1275285950 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::x
< 1275286420 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help
< 1275286421 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
< 1275286689 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it broken?
< 1275286704 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It says there is "No output"?
< 1275286708 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's broken.
< 1275287262 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1275288343 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275290094 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1275290446 0 :relet!~hirtho@159.162.68.87 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275290557 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275292634 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death
< 1275292788 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275292799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1275292800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275294642 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1275294718 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1275294786 0 :relet!~hirtho@159.162.68.87 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275295575 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1275295660 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1275295668 0 :augur!~augur@modemcable158.221-59-74.mc.videotron.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275295698 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1275295730 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275295785 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@ix.ceid.upatras.gr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275295833 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ali.. dangit
< 1275296022 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275296134 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, Eliezer Yudkowsky is very odd.
< 1275296219 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently not signing your children up for cryonics makes you a bad person.
< 1275296367 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, my philosophy makes cryonics pointless, so...
< 1275296623 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOMEONE SAY SOMETHING ABOUT ANYTHING.
< 1275296974 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1275298084 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange philosophy
< 1275298125 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't working cryonics no different from any other medical treatment? does your philosophy make them all pointless too?
< 1275298153 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did in fact read his fan fiction the other day
< 1275298202 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: Doesn't cryonics work by freezing you after you die?
< 1275298203 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it started out well. though became somewhat less witty and more plot-laden as the tale progresses. nonetheless a satisfactory use of time.
< 1275298273 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: sure
< 1275298313 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as you can be brought back to life, you're not really dead - just very sick
< 1275298326 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you're frozen until treatment becomes available
< 1275298362 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's my main problem, really.
< 1275298366 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1275298374 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're assuming that treatment will definitely be available.
< 1275298388 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really
< 1275298426 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same with other medical treatments - they don't always work
< 1275298449 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some operations have like 50% failure rates
< 1275298464 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but people still do them because 50% is better than 100%
< 1275298474 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But they have been tried, and they have worked.
< 1275298492 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's different from saying that in the future everything will be curable.
< 1275298498 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure
< 1275298520 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in both cases there's a probability of success
< 1275298537 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can't estimate it well for cryonics, and it's probably small
< 1275298544 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But with cryonics, you have next to no idea what that probability is.
< 1275298568 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as you don't think it's exactly 0, there's utility in it
< 1275298582 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if there's only a small probability of it working, why spend a lot of money on it?
< 1275298604 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because some people have a lot of money and enjoy living?
< 1275298620 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, of course.
< 1275298646 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But saying that you're a bad parent if you don't sign your children up for it is ridiculous.
< 1275298678 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was just wondering if you actually had a philosophy that made cryonics pointless.
< 1275298688 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't seem like you do.
< 1275298707 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh, I rethought it.
< 1275298756 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just think it's a scam
< 1275298764 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I rather agree.
< 1275298764 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the probability is 0 after all
< 1275298793 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Transhumanists in general often seem nearly religious, though.
< 1275299178 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1275299250 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool, the British government recently considered giving AIs modified citizenship.
< 1275299270 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vote Labour to avoid the robot uprising?
< 1275299416 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am totally creating a party on those grounds.
< 1275299519 0 :ec!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Iâ€™d join, were I british.
< 1275299553 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn this minimum age for standing for Parliament.
< 1275299584 0 :ec!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I stole that for a tweetâ€¦ unfortunately, I couldnâ€™t /via without a Twitter username for you: http://tau.pe/15095694929
< 1275299629 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not have a Twitter account.
< 1275299675 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, "perceptron" is the coolest word ever.
< 1275300196 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perspex machine
< 1275300599 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, isn't that the guy who said he could divide by 0?
< 1275300833 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1275300846 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just realized that my little theorem proofer program happens to be turing complete
< 1275300847 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x3
< 1275300862 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let us see it?
< 1275300865 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not done
< 1275300904 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but its TC precisely because it allows inference rules of the form XfY => XgY
< 1275300937 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where X and Y are arbitrary strings metavariables, and f and g are arbitrary strings
< 1275300948 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus you can encode a type 0 grammar in it
< 1275300984 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you implementing it in C?
< 1275300988 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right now, no
< 1275300997 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eventually itll probably be implemented in ObjC
< 1275301021 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but right now im writing a simple, easy-to-toy-with version in ruby
< 1275301035 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Ruby is implemented in C?
< 1275301041 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably!
< 1275301042 0 :tombom!~tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275301044 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why?
< 1275301055 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEN IT'S NOT TC.
< 1275301065 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hush your face
< 1275301081 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no programming language is TC if running in the real world
< 1275301095 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not the point,
< 1275301103 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it is
< 1275301109 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it isn't!
< 1275301305 0 :ec!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it is!
< 1275301311 0 :ec!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(what are we arguing about?)
< 1275301336 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ruby being TC.
< 1275301340 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHICH IT ISN't.
< 1275301352 0 :ec!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISNâ€™t.
< 1275301402 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I turned my caps lock off.
< 1275301406 0 :ec!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISNâ€™t.
< 1275301412 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Typing in all caps is hard.
< 1275301415 0 :ec!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISNâ€™t
< 1275301461 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cease that.
< 1275302932 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1275303441 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1275303448 0 :augur!~augur@modemcable158.221-59-74.mc.videotron.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275303955 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if there's a thing that makes my console make random bleeps
< 1275304870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps
< 1275304881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, does this beep you?
< 1275304960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, anyway it would be trivial to write such a thing. A background processes that does basically: while (1) { sleep(rand() % SOMECONSTANT); putchar(7); }
< 1275304967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not sure that will compile
< 1275304970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION checks man sleep
< 1275304999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm will compile, maybe with warning
< 1275305005 0 :hiato!~fdulu@41-132-88-136.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275305022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rand() returns int, sleep() takes unsigned int
< 1275305063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange that rand() doesn't return unsigned int... after all it is always in the interval [0,RAND_MAX]
< 1275305139 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnome-terminal doesn't seem to support the ASCII bell.
< 1275305189 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or it doesn't work for me.
< 1275305376 0 :relet1!~hirtho@159.162.68.87 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275305564 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1275305564 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1275306448 0 :relet1!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :relet
< 1275306521 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do the languages 'beglad' and 'netfunge' which are mentioned in the funge-98 specs actually still exist somewhere?
< 1275306539 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAIK they never existed anywhere
< 1275306554 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even as a spec?
< 1275306598 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, only as ideas
< 1275306603 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now that's esoteric. :D
< 1275306607 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure, but fairly
< 1275306636 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, has anyone ever built an Analytical Engine?
< 1275306640 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a gap one could fill for instant fame.
< 1275306850 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, according to Wikipedia the Analytical Engine would have been TC.
< 1275306853 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt that.
< 1275306891 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although "Turing-complete" here means something rather different to everywhere else.
< 1275307248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Phantom_Hoover> gnome-terminal doesn't seem to support the ASCII bell. <-- think it is an option?
< 1275307263 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is, in fact, on.
< 1275307267 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stuff is broken.
< 1275307272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, sound on? maybe gnome sound settings?
< 1275307284 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other stuff is fine.
< 1275307334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, relet: weren't beglad supposed to be something like corewars?
< 1275307341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do I misremember completely
< 1275307346 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, BEfunge GLADiators
< 1275307353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and netfunge?
< 1275307358 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno
< 1275307379 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never found anything about it as far as I can recall
< 1275307434 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mtve: Got more of those mailing list archives by any chance? :-P
< 1275307457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1275308049 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1275308349 0 :Zuu!zuu@0x55529f1b.adsl.cybercity.dk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275308349 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host
< 1275308349 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275308558 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1275310272 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275312337 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Reconnecting
< 1275312350 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h139.28.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275312682 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-15-77.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275313660 0 :oklopol!~oklopol@a91-153-122-35.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275313696 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1275314687 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-15-77.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275315674 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: befunge gladiators... that sounds like something that should be done.
< 1275315728 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The idea was core wars in befunge
< 1275315774 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275315896 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants a concurrency model so awesome that it can race condition on command.
< 1275316160 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It will race condition at O(n)... where n is the number of characters in a quine program that you submit to the master thread for review. If it deems your quine worthy... it will give you a memory address and REALLY WANT YOU TO WRITE A SHIT TON OF STUFF TO IT FUCK YEAH
< 1275316164 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: underflow
< 1275316167 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1275316218 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just invent HQ9+R
< 1275316225 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the past 36 hours I have gotten exactly 4 hours of sleep.
< 1275316230 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this might explain why I am making no sense.
< 1275316233 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the R command to enter a race condition.
< 1275316311 0 :hiato!~nine@41-132-88-136.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275316447 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a concurrency model where you make a bunch of changes to a copied version of the shared state and then commit the changes atomically or whatever?
< 1275316483 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then like... I don't know, threads engage in a thumb war upon trying to commit at the same time
< 1275317464 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: quick reset
< 1275317487 0 :hiato!~nine@41-132-88-136.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275318279 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the idea of threads having a thumb war
< 1275318885 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I propose that it be the solution to all resource conflicts.
< 1275319256 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ali.. dammit
< 1275319328 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BeThumb?
< 1275319374 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, you could have it for everything.
< 1275319389 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Running out of memory? Winner of the thumb war gets it.
< 1275319392 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just liked the ring of it.
< 1275319401 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: underflow
< 1275319405 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CPU time low? Thumb war!
< 1275319430 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both accessing a file? Thumb war!¬
< 1275319443 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both accessing the same thumb - fail
< 1275319484 0 :hiato!~nine@41-132-88-136.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275319506 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1275319577 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, you can have a thumb war over the thumb war.
< 1275319599 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION starts writing THUMBIX
< 1275319879 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275319919 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rofl
< 1275319931 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...so I just read some category theory and it's starting to make sense
< 1275319962 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but now it seems like a slightly disorganized clusterfuck... what with all these enriched categories and higher order categories.
< 1275320486 0 :relet!~thomas@c905DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275320579 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: switching to aterm
< 1275320608 0 :hiato!~nine@41-132-88-136.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275321197 0 :alise!~alise@91.105.86.86 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275321390 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise?
< 1275321406 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, I thought you had to go to the unit today?
< 1275321413 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, vacation today
< 1275321419 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bank holiday -- but since I slept at 6am it's not much of one, seeing as it's 4pm.
< 1275321423 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well.
< 1275321425 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: *holiday
< 1275321428 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupid Americans!
< 1275321472 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I think I can make an object that lets you eval, even as a guest
< 1275321495 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think lambdamoo is primarily based on the honour system
< 1275321526 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, not really
< 1275321599 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think "perceptron" is the coolest word ever.
< 1275321608 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  sup... so, I decided I was making it way too complicated.
< 1275321616 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I usually do that, too.
< 1275321618 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The BF derivative?
< 1275321622 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No.
< 1275321623 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Braces.
< 1275321627 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah.
< 1275321628 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably had to do with me being sleep deprived and on Adderall to keep me awake.
< 1275321652 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you're sleep deprived maybe you shouldn't try to stay awake :P
< 1275321665 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, being able to take something that can't be abused or destroyed just because you have it does not an honour system make
< 1275321676 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately, perceptrons are a fairly weak type of neural net.
< 1275321678 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: but topology and stuff
< 1275321685 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: neural nets are shit btw
< 1275321691 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, there are topology twisting areas
< 1275321695 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Particularly the hotel
< 1275321702 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yesyesyes.
< 1275321704 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275321723 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan!
< 1275321738 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Non-thematic things are generally accepted at places like the hotel, and for more official additions, the owner of the room needs to add the link anyway
< 1275321809 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: g'day
< 1275321816 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gay day LOL
< 1275321837 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am incapable of shaking off the feeling that it's the afternoon.
< 1275321840 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any australians here who can swat alise?
< 1275321847 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  was fixing my sleep cycle. I've been going to bed at like 8-10 AM
< 1275321859 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :today I woke up at 8 AM.  Like a normal person.
< 1275321868 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...tired as fuck though. But I'll catch back up.
< 1275321883 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: that's because it is, silly
< 1275321908 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn, you're right.
< 1275321933 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do I do with this?
< 1275321949 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it is the afternoon!
< 1275321951 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1275321952 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1275321954 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Oh, I've been on the 8pm to 4am schedule before
< 1275321957 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: that thing fucks you up
< 1275321972 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, yes it does
< 1275321976 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10am to 6pm is almost as bad though
< 1275321980 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine was getting worse than that too
< 1275321990 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1275321992 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other way around
< 1275321995 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6 pm to 10 am
< 1275322003 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you sleep that long...
< 1275322014 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: have you considered taking melatonin to help with your sleep schedule? it must be great, it was recommended on less wrong :P
< 1275322024 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  ...I mean, 10 am is when I went to sleep
< 1275322029 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1275322032 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6 pm is when I woke u
< 1275322032 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :p
< 1275322034 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean start of sleep to end of sleep
< 1275322035 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 hours.
< 1275322055 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...oh, okay.
< 1275322057 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rofl.
< 1275322090 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  I might. I'm ridiculous sleep deprived right now and it would still take me about an hour or two to fall asleep
< 1275322098 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also my usual way of resetting is to not sleep one night
< 1275322104 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then just stay on with willpower till the next night
< 1275322108 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this only works after being on a schedule for a while
< 1275322108 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1275322116 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway you'll wake up at a reasonable time
< 1275322125 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i doubt drugs will help :P
< 1275322227 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LessWrong is a very odd place.
< 1275322242 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that it is
< 1275322257 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the post recommending melatonin was well thought out and by someone i've talked to before and know from elsewhere
< 1275322260 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm inclined to trust it
< 1275322263 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it seems not to be as rational as it makes out.
< 1275322271 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Particularly the whole cryonics thing.
< 1275322280 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The probability of cryonics works out for the cost.
< 1275322294 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can you actually calculate that probability?
< 1275322324 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, pick whatever probability you think you have of actually being revived. It can be low, say p=0.01.
< 1275322329 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  I'm not even sure if this source code is even useful to modify off of. it's in a halfway state between like three different designs. :P
< 1275322341 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then take the cost of cryonics -- $20,000 I believe, though it's paid for with health insurance.
< 1275322342 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: That is intolerably low for the cost.
< 1275322350 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm done with it. I need to focus on important things
< 1275322358 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: then you don't value your life much
< 1275322373 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically it's weighing probability-of-cryonics-working with cost-of-cryonics and how-much-you-value-life
< 1275322382 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm not going to bother completing what i started because evidently you're already decided
< 1275322386 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But how do you weigh the probability?
< 1275322403 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, yes, accuse me of irrationality.
< 1275322404 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: how about you learn statistics? i hear less wrong are quite good at it...
< 1275322409 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  http://pastebin.com/fm218v1L
< 1275322412 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't accusing you of irrationality.
< 1275322416 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was accusing you of not listening.
< 1275322437 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can kind of see the craziness I was trying to do in Generator. SourceCrawler is the root pass-through parser part though
< 1275322441 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But humanity is notoriously awful at predicting the future.
< 1275322464 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No future-prediction required -- and I hope you realise that the unpredictability of the future is one of Eliezer's main rags.
< 1275322475 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not a religious LW-believer, but I do think they're more right about cryonics than some other things.
< 1275322488 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  if I had kept working on it... I was pretty much just going to delete Generator and just do everything monolithically in SourceCrawler... but with fancy look_ahead and position stacks
< 1275322501 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is ashamed. 
< 1275322521 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually kind of blame Python. I forgot how easy it is to impulsively design in Python
< 1275322524 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it actually do anything?
< 1275322526 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: You need to be able to predict to some extent what will happen in the future to calculate the probability, surely?
< 1275322528 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah, that's one of my main problems with Python
< 1275322530 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  oh. No. It's skeleton code.
< 1275322533 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you think "oh, this is working first time" but then it dies
< 1275322535 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: right
< 1275322556 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  at one point it was more implemented... but then I deleted that part. :P
< 1275322560 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: To work out how much cryonics is worth to YOU right now, just take whatever you believe the current probability of cryonics working is. Obviously, it is low, because you are very skeptical!
< 1275322579 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes.
< 1275322583 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: there is such a thing as lower bounds on probability, which don't require you to get predictions perfectly right
< 1275322587 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: If you want to be convinced of another probability, well, that's a lot harder. It'd involve arguments about rate of improvement of technology, what has already been done (a vitrified kidney has been restored)
< 1275322593 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it is how to get an accurate probability that is the problem.
< 1275322595 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some other things.
< 1275322613 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, vitrified kidney /= brain.
< 1275322615 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I personally believe that cryonics works out to be at least breaking even, even for a quite low-probability estimate.
< 1275322622 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It's still living tissue. And of course it isn't possible now.
< 1275322630 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We HAVE to extrapolate in predicting the future. It's all you can do.
< 1275322635 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's rather different in structure.
< 1275322662 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: you don't need an _accurate_ probability.  you need only to get the lower bound higher than your cost/value
< 1275322662 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Note that you don't pay the $20,0000.
< 1275322664 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*200
< 1275322666 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You get it with life insurance.
< 1275322670 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not health insurance; i was mistaken)
< 1275322688 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, how does that work?
< 1275322717 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure. America is weird.
< 1275322721 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it works here too. I don't know.
< 1275322724 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All my information is American.
< 1275322769 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also, I have philosophical issues over whether cryonics is resurrection)
< 1275322774 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Dualist.
< 1275322783 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really.
< 1275322794 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes.
< 1275322806 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Teleport thingy?
< 1275322835 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  I realized what I was trying to do was entirely unnecessary. Basically SourceCrawler kept track of reading forward into the source, and to process it, it would invoke a list of coroutines that each have a reference to the crawler. There would be methods so that each coroutine could do things like look ahead from its current position, check to see if the next input matches such and such string. the output from the corouti
< 1275322842 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :</tl;dr>
< 1275322844 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Same atoms, different place.
< 1275322860 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you believe that /walking around/ kills you.
< 1275322865 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I blend you, then the atoms are the same.
< 1275322871 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. No they're not.
< 1275322877 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes they are.
< 1275322883 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're certainly not in the same arrangement.
< 1275322901 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  it's similar semantics to how parser monads work in Haskell, except in crazy dynamic Python world. :P
< 1275322906 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: if you believe the near-death stories, then you _could_ argue medical science is _already_ doing resurrection ;D
< 1275322914 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: maybe we could use a ~REAL PARSER~
< 1275322916 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...nawww
< 1275322924 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  ...I don't even know wtf a real parser is
< 1275322927 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never made one.
< 1275322934 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: And you do realise that all your cells are being replaced all the time?
< 1275322940 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt you share a single atom with your six-month-old self.
< 1275322941 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed.
< 1275322945 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: So, how's dying been?
< 1275322952 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC some atoms are carried over.
< 1275322954 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait, you haven't noticed it because we have a wonderful brain that keeps a continuous experience going.
< 1275322958 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even when our hearts stop we resume.
< 1275322962 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and if you don't believe in spirituality then i don't see why you should consider resurrection anything special at all)
< 1275322967 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Great! So our entire consciousness is contained in a few tiny atoms.
< 1275322975 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*something spiritual
< 1275322976 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's reassuring. It makes sense, all these sentient atoms.
< 1275322977 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I'm bein pedantic.
< 1275322987 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  well... it's not reall a parser at this point. The whole point is to match specific parts of the code.... but most of it you can ignore (right?)
< 1275322991 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you're just being rude now.
< 1275322995 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: It's a half-parser, basically.
< 1275323000 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I'm ridiculing a ridiculous hypothesis.
< 1275323004 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... and I did not realize anyone else knew who the fuck Emperor Norton the First was. :D I am pleased.
< 1275323017 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: A real parser -- the easiest would be recursive descent.
< 1275323020 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not a hypothesis. I never claimed it was.
< 1275323028 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since you can actually manually-write those.
< 1275323035 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I think I'll just keep writing this.
< 1275323061 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: We will need to recurse in this one, because we need to pre-parse the contents of {}.
< 1275323064 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So we can pass it to a block.
< 1275323070 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A recursive descent parser is a top-down parser built from a set of mutually-recursive procedures (or a non-recursive equivalent) where each such procedure usually implements one of the production rules of the grammar. Thus the structure of the resulting program closely mirrors that of the grammar it recognizes.
< 1275323076 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  that kind of sounds like what I was doing.
< 1275323167 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I like how this thing became self-hosting in under one day.
< 1275323210 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: i recall many neurons are not replaced.  although whether the atoms in them still are, i'm not sure.  maybe atoms in their dna last throughout life...
< 1275323221 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :def macro_rule(proc) { yield proc.match_forward("@compiler"); if (not proc.look_ahead("I don't even know)) { yield someOtherGenerator(proc); }
< 1275323247 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :recursive decent?
< 1275323299 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, slow exchange of atoms is not the same as total cessation of all brain activity.
< 1275323318 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: although i realize that probably still has no relevance to memory
< 1275323336 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet:
< 1275323343 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(#
< 1275323343 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    if wut { abcdef; quux; print "abc"; bar { ... } }
< 1275323343 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is parsed as
< 1275323343 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    [Block('if', 'wut', [Stmt('abcdef'), Stmt('quux'), Stmt('print "abc"'),
< 1275323343 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :     Block('bar', [], [...])])]
< 1275323344 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*but* we should parse it as
< 1275323346 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    ('if', 'wut', 'abcdef; quux; print "abc"; bar { ... }')
< 1275323348 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first, since that's what block handlers will take (they won't need more,
< 1275323350 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will they?)
< 1275323352 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#)
< 1275323354 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ thoughts on the above?
< 1275323360 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: note that recursive descent parser implemented naively have trouble with left-recursive grammar rules
< 1275323366 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*parsers
< 1275323403 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  so just split into tokens first?
< 1275323413 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or only?
< 1275323417 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(haskell's parsec, which is _essentially_ recursive descent, has specially made combinators for handling those)
< 1275323423 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: basically the /only/ thing we should do at first
< 1275323424 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is change
< 1275323428 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A B { C } into (A,B,C)
< 1275323434 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: isn't it PEG?
< 1275323437 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I guess not
< 1275323445 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaaah
< 1275323446 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's PEG
< 1275323454 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :popular with the hipsters parsing thing
< 1275323459 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parsing_expression_grammar
< 1275323462 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  yeah, then recurse into C to do the same
< 1275323469 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: no!
< 1275323472 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...why not?
< 1275323475 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: because if A is a registered block, we do A_handler('B','C')
< 1275323479 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then compile /that/
< 1275323486 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if A isn't registered, though, we recurse into C, yes.
< 1275323493 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay.
< 1275323501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, CakeProphet hm? what are you doing? :)
< 1275323527 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1275323540 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :making Python esoteric
< 1275323545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch
< 1275323547 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and by esoteric... I mean awesome.
< 1275323549 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and fun
< 1275323583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, how does it look currently?
< 1275323588 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Lemme show you the current source.
< 1275323599 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1275323604 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: "A parsing expression grammar essentially represents a recursive descent parser in a pure schematic form ..."
< 1275323604 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p1257459481.txt
< 1275323605 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, AnMaster.
< 1275323610 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Note the glorious self-hostingness.
< 1275323612 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  I realized you could support instance variable declarations in Python using the __slot__ thing. It would actually make Python more memory efficient if you did __slots__ with everything
< 1275323622 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Feature not seen there: (# nestable (# inline #) comments #)
< 1275323628 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  feel free to completely ditch what I was doing. I think it's too disorganized to work with.
< 1275323637 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm, got any good example showing the esotericness of it?
< 1275323640 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I already have :D
< 1275323645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait
< 1275323647 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you can use gnu indentation style with python.
< 1275323649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :self hosting in *that* sense
< 1275323654 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1275323656 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :written in itself!
< 1275323680 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p6558475366.txt lovely example~
< 1275323705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, okay the { } indeed. can't spot anything else obvious in the self hostingness
< 1275323709 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah changed comments too
< 1275323717 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Look at the indentation.
< 1275323718 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't it beautiful.
< 1275323722 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Anyway we're adding more.
< 1275323737 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Ever wanted to create your own Python operators and control structures?
< 1275323740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well the indentation doesn't matter any longer I presume now that you have {}
< 1275323743 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p4242397287.txt This should work sometime.
< 1275323759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm (# nested (# comments #) indeed #) <-- I have seen this comment style somewhere, I can't remember where
< 1275323759 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1275323762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any idea?
< 1275323769 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my inspiration was (# putting the #-style line comments in brackets #)
< 1275323773 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, gawp at http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p4242397287.txt
< 1275323775 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  might want to change the syntax up though to make it easier to parse
< 1275323776 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/./
< 1275323781 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: nu.
< 1275323784 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: parsec has a strange default backtracking rule that's slightly similar to PEG, but the try combinator selects full backtracking
< 1275323791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, now that seems to approach perl in some aspects
< 1275323801 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Ah, but it's more like it's approaching Lisp!
< 1275323817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, maybe feature-wise, but not syntax-wise
< 1275323859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :syntax-wise it is approaching some mix of llvm asm (iirc it is filled with @foo kind of stuff) and perl
< 1275323923 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think if I had kept going with my crazy parser system it would have ended up being similar to parsec in some ways.
< 1275323924 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you can backtrack from a non-try sub-parser only if it has consumed no characters)
< 1275323960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, parsec is haskell iirc?
< 1275323967 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes.
< 1275323968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, quite a horrible pun
< 1275323991 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :carser pombinators
< 1275324004 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  at one point I had it save copies of the parser state onto a stack... like perfectly, so you could basically time travel.
< 1275324022 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: infinite-lookahead!
< 1275324073 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: You know, maybe we should drop the compiling-to-Python thing and just make this a language.
< 1275324084 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  also, if you're ever dealing with a stream of characters that you just need to accumulate and not really search through and stuff... consider StreamIO
< 1275324098 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm is lex tc?
< 1275324109 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  nah... it's fun to abuse Python.
< 1275324110 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: doesn't it have { ... }
< 1275324118 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: :( But this is so close to a good language :P
< 1275324119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I can't say I'm very good at lex
< 1275324135 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :separate lexers/parsers are for fags :P
< 1275324138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I wonder if you could do some dirty tricks in the style of factorial with C++ templates in pure lex
< 1275324139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such
< 1275324143 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of whom I've NOTHING AGINST
< 1275324151 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a perfectly acceptable lifestyle choice to separate a lexer and a parser
< 1275324156 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just an abomination against nature, is all
< 1275324166 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  so if the compiler were self-hosting... would it be possible to write the compiler hooks in the language itself?
< 1275324189 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  I mean you certainly could make a language... but that greatly increases the amount of time and effort.
< 1275324203 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it should definitely have an awesome type awesome
< 1275324208 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-ahem-
< 1275324217 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<CakeProphet> alise:  so if the compiler were self-hosting... would it be possible to write the compiler hooks in the language itself?
< 1275324219 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1275324225 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<CakeProphet> but it should definitely have an awesome type awesome
< 1275324225 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1275324232 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....it should.
< 1275324237 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that even
< 1275324241 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a type awesome
< 1275324243 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is like a type system
< 1275324246 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but better, and typo'd
< 1275324258 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but but but types are like grawt
< 1275324273 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275324275 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....grawt?
< 1275324301 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i was under the impression that lex converted stuff into a FSA, so the rules themselves can only be regular.  but you can probably to weird stuff in the { ... } actions.
< 1275324326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh right, it is the "insert C" right?
< 1275324333 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Automatic character creation for LambdaMOO:
< 1275324334 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A character has been created, with name "alise" and password [REDACTED]
< 1275324334 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^_^
< 1275324334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, okay what about yacc/bison?
< 1275324337 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  I guess variable declarations is fine
< 1275324337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could it be TC
< 1275324361 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  but typeclasses in imperitive languages? It'd be like interfaces but better.
< 1275324362 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yacc/bison is LALR(1), deterministic pushdown automata
< 1275324388 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: But... you don't need them...
< 1275324391 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*imperative, also
< 1275324402 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...right
< 1275324405 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so definitely not TC in the parsing itself either
< 1275324476 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  it would suck if your latest object-code version of the self-hosting compiler had a terrible bug and could no longer compile your languages compiler... and you had no backup.
< 1275324488 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I have braces_orig.py
< 1275324496 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strip the (# ... #) comments and it'll parse the {}; stuff
< 1275324511 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I won't be using custom control structures in the compiler
< 1275324515 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I've bootstrapped this one safely
< 1275324516 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(LALR(1) is a subset of LR(1), which is up to grammar rearrangement equivalent to LR(k) and all deterministic pushdown automata in power)
< 1275324520 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good thing my language is so close to its parent :P
< 1275324528 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean... I would just emit human-readable Python. I know it's difficult and all with that enforce indentation.
< 1275324536 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is human-readable.
< 1275324553 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're a towel though... so you can't read it.
< 1275324554 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1275324554 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and _non-deterministic_ pushdown automata <=> context-free languages, still not TC
< 1275324556 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just replace the first N spaces of a line with 4N spaces.
< 1275324570 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Voila, it's identical to braces_orig.py apart from some newlines.
< 1275324598 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Braces should be called Emperor Norton.
< 1275324642 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no :P
< 1275324649 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be called
< 1275324655 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Braces -- Clean up your BS
< 1275324723 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, .bs is a TLD...
< 1275324724 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :braces.bs
< 1275324732 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://braces.bs/braces.bs :P
< 1275324761 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1275324783 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how about lazy variables/function parameters?
< 1275324796 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be ... a big change
< 1275324809 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah...
< 1275324892 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two words: lambda hacks
< 1275324948 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be like io... which is awesomeness.
< 1275324964 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1275324975 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  I meant explicitly lazy by the way. you'd declare the parameter or variable that way.
< 1275325003 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275325005 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe we should JUST USE IO.
< 1275325005 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :branch(cond, lazy truecode, lazy falsecode)
< 1275325015 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is pretty much what we want, right?
< 1275325019 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: i still want a pun on python, braces and teeth in there.
< 1275325043 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  How about instead of hacking Python we just support the io community?
< 1275325066 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then hack that.
< 1275325097 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also there's the possibility of hacking the CPython interpreter itself. It's quite a monster though.
< 1275325111 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hand-coded struct polymorphism and stuff
< 1275325115 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Meh, the Io community is almost non-existent :-)
< 1275325121 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: and the stdlib is piss poor
< 1275325131 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Steve Dekorte believes piracy is stealing :-(
< 1275325131 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right... WHICH IS WHY IT NEEDS OUR AWESOME CODING POWERS
< 1275325140 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I refuse to support a project by such a man!
< 1275325232 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gets disappointing results on a google image search for "python with braces"
< 1275325238 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha
< 1275325263 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: We should make "from __future__ import braces" say "You already have them!" instead of "Not a chance."
< 1275325296 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rofl
< 1275325312 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't even realize there was a thing in Python
< 1275325345 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://timhatch.com/projects/pybraces/ the previous art
< 1275325355 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's LAME though, LAME
< 1275325405 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<AnMaster> Phantom_Hoover, does this beep you? <-- i am pretty sure beeps are one of the things censored by channel mode +c
< 1275325421 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm
< 1275325426 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to make a language called
< 1275325436 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eager Haskell with gotos
< 1275325462 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(given that it's probably at least as irritating as everything else +c is intended to censor, combined)
< 1275325485 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and repopularize goto-oriented programming a solution for fast business software development.
< 1275325512 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :......what. censoring?
< 1275325515 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the fuck is that shit.
< 1275325531 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: the c is for color, i think
< 1275325538 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rofl. I see.
< 1275325569 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually think come from is a cool idea
< 1275325582 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :come from with a return to
< 1275325597 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :goto => returnfrom
< 1275325602 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comefrom => returnto
< 1275325635 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't come from the essence of aspect-oriented programming, or something ( oerjan doesn't really know the latter )
< 1275325643 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... what's a language like that missing though. OH I KNOW. MONADS. FUCK YEAH.
< 1275325666 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan:  I'm pretty sure aspect oriented programming is just vaporware
< 1275325672 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's similar I guess
< 1275325681 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :come from is "reactive" programming or event-driven
< 1275325730 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could just have some crazy type system, and equally crazy pattern matching syntax to specify come from events.
< 1275325748 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that I don't feel like thinking about right now.
< 1275325759 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: come to think of it haven't heard it mentioned recently - did the fad just die?
< 1275325781 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's been dead for a few years now. It didn't last long.
< 1275325858 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: i'm pretty sure you could make a goto monad transformer.  someone probably did.  a vague bell rings about "labels"
< 1275325874 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan:  I've thought about it would work
< 1275325931 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be like ST/IO ( Map String (ST/IO))   -- very rough type signature to illustrate idea
< 1275325971 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm or maybe you can just make it a combinator in any continuation monad...
< 1275325993 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan:  essentially AOP is just a way to partially declare methods elsewhere, so you can organize code by functionality into different source files but have it all run together when compiled.
< 1275325999 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<CakeProphet> oerjan:  I'm pretty sure aspect oriented programming is just vaporware
< 1275326000 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, no
< 1275326010 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aspect oriented programming just lets you:
< 1275326011 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- wrap functions
< 1275326015 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- run some code before a function
< 1275326016 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- run some code after a function
< 1275326017 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, methods)
< 1275326019 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a class.
< 1275326022 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, subclas.
< 1275326024 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not much
< 1275326034 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it basically lets you do a lot of what redefining a method would do except copy-paste.
< 1275326037 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a bit naff though.
< 1275326042 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah... I made a plugin system in Python that worked like that.
< 1275326056 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CLOS does it
< 1275326060 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't called AOP back then though
< 1275326063 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they did it properly
< 1275326117 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, EMACS does it a lot.
< 1275326150 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: reinventing lisp is a time-honored tradition, right?
< 1275326159 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*stuff from
< 1275326163 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: there's even a law about it!
< 1275326172 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: *Emacs, and Emacs doesn't use Common Lisp
< 1275326192 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, but it does AOP-like stuff is what I meant.
< 1275326198 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i'm a bit green, but i guess someone must have spun up a law yeah
< 1275326242 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats oerjan -------------###
< 1275326250 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the swatter returns! now with a longer handle!
< 1275326251 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch
< 1275326257 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275326257 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's MINE! all MI--
< 1275326259 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impostor!
< 1275326261 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION snaps off the longer handle by mistake
< 1275326264 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops, it's normal length now.
< 1275326264 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1275326266 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION runs
< 1275326298 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... here's an idea
< 1275326309 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about a programming language that you program by playing a text-based game.
< 1275326314 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no :P
< 1275326349 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You put on your rob and wizard cap" declares an int or something
< 1275326392 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or actually that puts it on the stack. You have to allocate it first by going to the shop and buying it. :)
< 1275326404 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The LambdaMOO 'nopoly board is gone!
< 1275326409 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was a hotel in there!
< 1275326411 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/TRANSCRIPT has a dead link :(
< 1275326412 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rob and wizard cap
< 1275326416 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rob, and wizard cap.
< 1275326434 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.....
< 1275326444 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must re-iterate
< 1275326446 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm very tired.
< 1275326460 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is probably indicated by my programming language ideas at the moment.
< 1275326518 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah equipment=memory... doing things are basic operations. Do stuff with equipment is like calling a function with the values as parameters. :)
< 1275326522 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have an island for a programming language that is also an island for a cheese
< 1275326528 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by island, i mean idea
< 1275326535 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn wayback is slow
< 1275326536 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think going through dungeons would specify classes.
< 1275326537 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Portable rooms can go on the Geography shelf
< 1275326541 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes.
< 1275326548 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a lot to define... so you've got to make it a quest.
< 1275326569 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then when you get to end and slay the dungeon boss you get the equipment that represents your data structure. :)
< 1275326574 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: http://web.archive.org/web/20071011215948/www.corknut.org/code/transcript/samples/helloworld.txt
< 1275326638 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha...
< 1275326645 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people are IO streams. :)
< 1275326660 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deep.
< 1275326713 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess technically a text-based game is already an interactive programming language with a very limited instruction set
< 1275326733 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but your commands change state and produce IO.
< 1275326766 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x y f
< 1275326766 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :q
< 1275326792 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... I should make factorial in Glass
< 1275326894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> <AnMaster> Phantom_Hoover, does this beep you? <-- i am pretty sure beeps are one of the things censored by channel mode +c <-- sure, but that was a plain highlight
< 1275326906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so +c or not was completely irrelevant
< 1275326926 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1275326945 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i somehow thought you had tried to put a beep in there
< 1275326951 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The specifics of this language (up to version 4.4.0) are the absence of loops as such. This is excusable - after all, gnuplot is not a general-purpose language but a graph plotting software. A loop can be simulated by creating a separate file with loop body, which then should be "read" to start the loop and "reread" for each iteration."
< 1275326974 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Haskell is nowhere near an esoteric or unpopular language"
< 1275326977 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, so nice to read those words.
< 1275327227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, they added loops in 4.4.0?
< 1275327231 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope.
< 1275327233 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an abuse
< 1275327236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1275327236 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read 'file'
< 1275327238 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then in the file
< 1275327238 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reread
< 1275327239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true
< 1275327243 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to... restart reading it :D
< 1275327244 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's brilliant
< 1275327247 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1275327249 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reread is just like import
< 1275327250 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think
< 1275327253 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except it will load a file twice
< 1275327279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it was "(up to version 4.4.0)" that made me think that either a) "added after that" or b) "last version at time of that being written"
< 1275327327 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1275327401 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, btw what is your opinion on lego? With that I don't mean the cooperation or such. I mean the "idea world" lego, if you see what I mean. Good or bad?
< 1275327418 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's... of course lego is good...
< 1275327425 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why on earth would it be bad
< 1275327427 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so what about bacon lego
< 1275327430 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just an idea
< 1275327458 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1275327465 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bacon lego. good or bad idea?
< 1275327503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would obviously need to be fried so it is stiff.
< 1275327505 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<relet> just invent HQ9+R <-- hm i sense an item for the List of Ideas
< 1275327513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, R standing for?
< 1275327524 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Race condition
< 1275327530 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, your player object physically exists
< 1275327533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, heh
< 1275327547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I think I broke alise's mind there
< 1275327552 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except my idea is a language like HQ9+ where the commands are all _bugs_ of some kind
< 1275327564 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HQ9+B(ug)
< 1275327566 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   Time now: 9:37 a.m. Monday 05/31/10
< 1275327566 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Last login: 7:14 p.m. Monday 01/18/38
< 1275327566 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last logout: 12:00 a.m. Monday 05/31/10
< 1275327569 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, such as?
< 1275327576 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :B is a no-operation, but occasionally is a bug whereby it runs a brainfuck interpreter
< 1275327579 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: no it should _not_ be an extension of HQ9+
< 1275327591 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well N could be null pointer dereferencing
< 1275327597 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P could be page fault
< 1275327598 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://psychology.wikia.com/wiki/Fibonacci_numbers what has this got to do with psychology
< 1275327600 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D ivision by zero
< 1275327611 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :relet: relent
< 1275327612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ick has that random bug
< 1275327623 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i know
< 1275327629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can be disabled with -b, love that
< 1275327635 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C could be cosmic ray
< 1275327650 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i know, i did it for the unlambda interpreter
< 1275327663 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, if you're not logging in now, I'm going to go watch some SG-2
< 1275327668 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*SG-1
< 1275327678 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hm I wonder if you could make such a language where you could actually use the bugs to compute something
< 1275327690 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BCDPR so far...
< 1275327691 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: i'm looking in
< 1275327691 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it must be turing complete, of course.
< 1275327693 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*logging
< 1275327703 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :relet: you must have that + increases the accumulator
< 1275327708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, S = Stack Smashing
< 1275327715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to overflow
< 1275327720 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :relet: um that would require it to have actual _useful_ commands
< 1275327726 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of buffer
< 1275327728 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: or just very good interaction of death
< 1275327732 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INTERACTION OF DEATHS
< 1275327737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, no?
< 1275327750 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, just deterministic enough to produce something useful after being repeated long enough
< 1275327752 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: BCDPRS then...
< 1275327767 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or combined well
< 1275327778 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I = Illegal instruction
< 1275327803 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i forgot N
< 1275327813 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every instruction could at least put its corresponding error code on the stack.
< 1275327820 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fib =: (-&2 +&$: <:) ^: (1&<)             ;; fibonacci in J
< 1275327825 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fib =: (-&2 +&$: <:) ^: (1&<) M.              ;; memosising fibonacci in J
< 1275327826 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!glass {M[m(_o)O!<4>f?(_o)o.?] [f(_n)0=(_a)A!(_n)*<1>(_a)s.?(_x)1=/(_x)(_n)*(_x)*(_a)a.?(_n)1=(_n)*<1>(_a)s.?(_x)1=\(_n)*]}
< 1275327827 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*memoising
< 1275327827 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BCDINPRS
< 1275327828 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after manipulating it in some way
< 1275327829 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"That Was Easy"
< 1275327832 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/./
< 1275327836 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....
< 1275327837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :relet, most of these would be fatal to the intperter
< 1275327840 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Glass is so hard to debug
< 1275327842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interpreter*
< 1275327854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, a lot of esolangs are
< 1275327858 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: write an interpreter that survives the race
< 1275327891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :relet, how would that help with I?
< 1275327899 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: catch the signal!
< 1275327901 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm
< 1275327917 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or fork before every page fault
< 1275327918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh wait, what about M for Memory Leak
< 1275327921 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha wow
< 1275327938 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1 1; 1 0)^(n-1) = (F(n) F(n-1); F(n-1) F(n-2)), we know this
< 1275327939 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NB. mm is matrix multiplication
< 1275327939 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm =: +/ .*
< 1275327939 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NB. mp is a general function to raise an object x to an integer power y
< 1275327939 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NB. using the repeated squaring algorithm
< 1275327939 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NB. (it can use any named multiplication function in place of 'mm')
< 1275327941 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mp =: 4 : 'mm / ( mm ~^: (I.|.#: y ) x)'
< 1275327943 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NB. fib n raises the 2x2 matrix (1,1)(1,0) to the n-1 power and returns the top left value
< 1275327945 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fib =: {.&,&((2 2$1x 1 1 0)&mp&<:)
< 1275327947 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty literal thinking in implementatio nthere
< 1275327948 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*implementation there
< 1275327950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, NB?
< 1275327953 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: comment in J
< 1275327956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1275327959 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole page is just tons of ways to do fibonacci in J :D
< 1275327959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, Nota Bene?
< 1275327967 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fib =: {:&([+/\@|.@]^:[1x 0"0)      NB. this is called the imperative loop version
< 1275327971 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure looks like an imperative loop to me!
< 1275327972 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes
< 1275327978 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or as my brain always expands it, "Note by"
< 1275327981 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, PLEASE NOTA BENE!
< 1275327986 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_<
< 1275328006 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PLEASE NOT NB. THIS IS AN INTERCAL/J POLYGLOT
< 1275328007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm where is ais when you need him
< 1275328033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, does intercal handle the NOT even when leading part of the word? or?
< 1275328035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot
< 1275328037 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PLEASE NOT in J?
< 1275328039 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes
< 1275328044 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why PLEASE NOTE works
< 1275328048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes
< 1275328050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot
< 1275328051 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!glass {M[m(_o)O!(_f)F!<4>(_f)f.?(_o)o.?]} {F[f(_n)1=(_a)A!(_n)*<1>(_a)s.?(_x)1=/(_x)(_n)*(_x)*(_a)a.?(_n)1=(_n)*<1>(_a)s.?(_x)1=\(_n)*]}
< 1275328056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, PLEASE NOTA BENE would also work
< 1275328062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nicely
< 1275328065 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no because that's not a J comment
< 1275328067 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!glass {M[m(_o)O!(_f)F!<4>(_f)f.?(_o)(on).?]} {F[f(_n)1=(_a)A!(_n)*<1>(_a)s.?(_x)1=/(_x)(_n)*(_x)*(_a)a.?(_n)1=(_n)*<1>(_a)s.?(_x)1=\(_n)*]}
< 1275328068 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does PLEASE NOT not confuse J?
< 1275328075 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :terminate called after throwing an instance of 'std::bad_alloc'
< 1275328075 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: not at all if you define PLEASE and NOT!
< 1275328078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well obviously not for J, I meant for intercal in genera
< 1275328080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :general*
< 1275328091 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah
< 1275328093 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :terminate called after throwing an instance of 'std::bad_alloc'
< 1275328101 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, your body is still in Limbo
< 1275328105 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yeah; that's in C++, isn't it?
< 1275328109 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man this error messages are just... zen
< 1275328118 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :......
< 1275328124 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my grammar is terrible.
< 1275328138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, chances are std::[a-z_]+ is C++ ;P
< 1275328144 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: you're grammar are fines
< 1275328151 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh why can't I get PLEASE NOT working
< 1275328157 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I am disappoint. :(
< 1275328159 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yeah.
< 1275328161 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fib=: 3 : 0
< 1275328161 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    if. 2 >: y do. 1<.y else.
< 1275328161 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        if. y = 2*n=.<.y%2
< 1275328161 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        do.   (n+1) -&*:&fib n-1
< 1275328161 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        else. (n+1) +&*:&fib n end.
< 1275328162 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    end.
< 1275328164 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :)
< 1275328166 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well that looks rather more conventional.
< 1275328174 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha i has binet's formula
< 1275328177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, anyway would PLEASE NOT NB really work in J?
< 1275328182 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NB. Although J does not have arbitrary precision floating point numbers,
< 1275328182 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NB. it makes it possible to calculate this precisely by defining
< 1275328182 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NB. multiplication in ring extensions of Z and Q.
< 1275328185 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: *NB.
< 1275328189 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, if you can get PLEASE NOT working
< 1275328196 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I'm trying to do and suffering puzzling difficulty
< 1275328203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what do you mean "*NB"?
< 1275328208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said NB
< 1275328210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :??
< 1275328215 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "NB."
< 1275328226 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   PLEASE =: +
< 1275328226 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   NOT =: 0
< 1275328226 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   PLEASE NOT
< 1275328226 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0
< 1275328226 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   PLEASE NOT NB. LOL DEATH BUTTS
< 1275328227 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0
< 1275328230 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i presume that's J's actual comment iniator
< 1275328235 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "NB." is the comment indicator, not "NB".
< 1275328236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that won't be valid intercal though
< 1275328236 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*initiator
< 1275328241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ah, right
< 1275328243 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well that's the challenge of a polyglot isn't it...
< 1275328243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see
< 1275328250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well yes
< 1275328267 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: PLEASE NOT NB.  is a bit ungrammatical
< 1275328267 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could we make this valid intercal as the first line:
< 1275328270 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x =: monad define :
< 1275328277 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes :P
< 1275328287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, was that question to me?
< 1275328294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bugger if I know
< 1275328303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need ais523 for this
< 1275328321 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais is probably sleeping now
< 1275328355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what? 18:52?
< 1275328357 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!glass {M[m(_o)O!(_f)F!<4>(_f)f.?(_o)(on).?]} {F[f(_n)1=(_a)A!(_n)*<1>(_a)s.?(_x)1=/(_x)(_n)*(_x)*(_a)a.?(_n)1=(_x)*<1>(_a)s.?(_x)1=\(_n)*^]}
< 1275328357 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10
< 1275328361 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1275328373 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was fast
< 1275328375 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait was it
< 1275328377 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: he was awake at 6am yesterday
< 1275328380 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and said he'd sleep in the day
< 1275328380 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just 4!
< 1275328381 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes.
< 1275328381 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see time tags
< 1275328392 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it /is/ a holiday...
< 1275328399 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!glass {M[m(_o)O!(_f)F!<10>(_f)f.?(_o)(on).?]} {F[f(_n)1=(_a)A!(_n)*<1>(_a)s.?(_x)1=/(_x)(_n)*(_x)*(_a)a.?(_n)1=(_x)*<1>(_a)s.?(_x)1=\(_n)*^]}
< 1275328400 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :55
< 1275328404 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o
< 1275328407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1275328432 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!glass {M[m(_o)O!(_f)F!<100>(_f)f.?(_o)(on).?]} {F[f(_n)1=(_a)A!(_n)*<1>(_a)s.?(_x)1=/(_x)(_n)*(_x)*(_a)a.?(_n)1=(_x)*<1>(_a)s.?(_x)1=\(_n)*^]}
< 1275328432 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5050
< 1275328438 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: er you realize 4! is 24 not 10
< 1275328452 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... I always forget it's * :P
< 1275328475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh
< 1275328496 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: you invented the triangular numbers
< 1275328497 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :congrats
< 1275328499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :glass is sure hard to read
< 1275328520 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: you could also have just written n(n+1) / 2
< 1275328530 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not as much as brainfuck
< 1275328532 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or underload
< 1275328541 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just rearrange the code P
< 1275328542 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*:P
< 1275328543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well sure.
< 1275328557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and intercal beats it too
< 1275328573 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :intercal is quite easy to read apart from those hideous oneliners
< 1275328577 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*one-liners
< 1275328586 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!glass {M[m(_o)O!(_f)F!<10>(_f)f.?(_o)(on).?]} {F[f(_n)1=(_a)A!(_n)*<1>(_a)s.?(_x)1=/(_x)(_n)*(_x)*(_a)m.?(_n)1=(_x)*<1>(_a)s.?(_x)1=\(_n)*^]}
< 1275328586 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.6288e+06
< 1275328589 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....
< 1275328599 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, intercal commonly seems to consist of a number of one liners + a bit of flow control
< 1275328610 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: is DON'T a legal J identifier?  it may be easier to start with that
< 1275328641 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since then at least INTERCAL will skip the line
< 1275328647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, wait, can you end a statement in J without ending the line
< 1275328648 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: true that's just a modern abomination
< 1275328652 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan's intercal isn't like that!
< 1275328653 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't need please on the first line
< 1275328664 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well DON'T ' will work
< 1275328669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just as long as you have a valid PLEASE ratio
< 1275328674 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: can't assign to that ofc
< 1275328678 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait
< 1275328679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, NOT =: +
< 1275328681 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   DON'T ' =: a
< 1275328681 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :â”Śâ”€â”€â”€â”¬â”€â”
< 1275328681 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :â”‚DONâ”‚aâ”‚
< 1275328681 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :â””â”€â”€â”€â”´â”€â”
< 1275328686 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vat the fack xD
< 1275328692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what happened there?
< 1275328696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice line art btw
< 1275328701 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's how it draws nested expressions
< 1275328705 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just have no idea how that... did... anything
< 1275328708 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That... shouldn't work
< 1275328716 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   DON'T ' =: a; bc
< 1275328716 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :â”Śâ”€â”€â”€â”¬â”€â”€â”€â”€â”€â”€â”€â”€â”
< 1275328716 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :â”‚DONâ”‚â”Śâ”€â”¬â”€â”¬â”€â”€â”â”‚
< 1275328716 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :â”‚   â”‚â”‚aâ”‚;â”‚bcâ”‚â”‚
< 1275328716 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :â”‚   â”‚â””â”€â”´â”€â”´â”€â”€â”â”‚
< 1275328717 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :â””â”€â”€â”€â”´â”€â”€â”€â”€â”€â”€â”€â”€â”
< 1275328720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1275328724 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't assigning anything either
< 1275328735 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ok now the problem is that =: has infinite binding basically
< 1275328736 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: hm intercal isn't really line oriented, or is it?
< 1275328736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, anyway my point is you can define NOT before you define please
< 1275328738 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I can't put a ( in front of it can I
< 1275328742 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it isn't, whitespace is irrelevant
< 1275328745 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even in between words
< 1275328752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and the first line doesn't need to be PLEASE
< 1275328768 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ah, so NOT foo will work in intercal?
< 1275328772 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as you have sufficient pleases later
< 1275328780 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I'm not 100% sure
< 1275328789 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: no, NOT is not a legal start of statement iirc
< 1275328791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it could require DO NOT
< 1275328795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1275328815 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   DO NOT =: sex
< 1275328815 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :â”Śâ”€â”€â”¬â”€â”€â”€â”
< 1275328815 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :â”‚DOâ”‚sexâ”‚
< 1275328815 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :â””â”€â”€â”´â”€â”€â”€â”
< 1275328815 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   NOT
< 1275328816 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :â”Śâ”€â”€â”€â”
< 1275328818 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :â”‚sexâ”‚
< 1275328820 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :â””â”€â”€â”€â”
< 1275328822 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works!
< 1275328824 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, I always use lewd identifiers to spot them easily when testing. :P
< 1275328824 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is spammy
< 1275328830 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're spammy
< 1275328838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so is your mom
< 1275328849 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :oktolol
< 1275328873 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!glass {M[m(_o)O!(_f)F!<10>(_f)f.?(_o)(on).?]} {F[f(_n)1=(_a)A!(_n)*<1>(_a)s.?(_x)1=/(_x)(_n)*(_x)*(_a)m.?(_n)1=(_x)*<1>(_a)s.?(_x)1=\(_n)*^]}
< 1275328874 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.6288e+06
< 1275328884 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol but
< 1275328885 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO NOT =: 0
< 1275328886 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fails
< 1275328889 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so NOT has to be non-0 :D
< 1275328892 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!glass {M[m(_o)O!(_f)F!<4>(_f)f.?(_o)(on).?]} {F[f(_n)1=(_a)A!(_n)*<1>(_a)s.?(_x)1=/(_x)(_n)*(_x)*(_a)m.?(_n)1=(_x)*<1>(_a)s.?(_x)1=\(_n)*^]}
< 1275328893 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :24
< 1275328895 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO NOT =: + works
< 1275328896 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bam
< 1275328904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, did you clear the earlier definitions?
< 1275328904 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   DO NOT =: +; 3
< 1275328905 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|value error: DO
< 1275328905 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|       DO NOT=:+;3
< 1275328906 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crap :D
< 1275328909 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: redefinition is allowed
< 1275328918 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not entirely sure this isn't just a REPL sideeffect
< 1275328925 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the OO in Glass actually makes it harder to read... there's a lot of stack-based boiler plate stuff
< 1275328929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well sure, but I meant it might have affected results
< 1275328931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of later expressions
< 1275328936 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   NOT
< 1275328937 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :â”Śâ”€â”
< 1275328937 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :â”‚+â”‚
< 1275328937 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :â””â”€â”
< 1275328937 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah!
< 1275328937 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe
< 1275328947 0 :oktolol!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :oklopol
< 1275328951 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol
< 1275328956 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it with J.
< 1275328965 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   DO NOT =: +
< 1275328966 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :â”Śâ”€â”€â”¬â”€â”
< 1275328966 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :â”‚DOâ”‚+â”‚
< 1275328966 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :â””â”€â”€â”´â”€â”
< 1275328966 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   NOT
< 1275328966 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :â”Śâ”€â”
< 1275328968 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :â”‚+â”‚
< 1275328970 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :â””â”€â”
< 1275328972 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: works even w/o NOT being defined
< 1275328974 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er
< 1275328976 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w/o DO
< 1275328978 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure?
< 1275328980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1275328984 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... /me has idea
< 1275329003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, btw make this polygot a polygot quine
< 1275329007 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO NOT =: 3 : 'y'
< 1275329010 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then NOT 3 = 3
< 1275329014 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a matter of defining please now
< 1275329016 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I have an idea for that
< 1275329030 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1275329032 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO NOT PLEASE =: works
< 1275329044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that doesn't count as a please line of course
< 1275329046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik
< 1275329046 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: idea.  you will have trouble defining PLEASE i think, since it will start an INTERCAL statement there.  but you can define PLE and ASE, say.
< 1275329048 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't matter
< 1275329057 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1275329066 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can have all your comment lines non-please
< 1275329070 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't you?
< 1275329072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh so comments don't end at end of line? Right
< 1275329074 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as other lines are non please
< 1275329078 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: whitespace is completely irrelevant
< 1275329083 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DONOTPLEASE is equiv.
< 1275329084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1275329088 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> as long as other lines are non please
< 1275329090 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are please, rather
< 1275329107 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: i think DO NOT PLEASE is two statements DO NOT  and PLEASE
< 1275329127 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure of course
< 1275329165 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm
< 1275329167 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what i mean is
< 1275329168 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO NOT ...
< 1275329169 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO NOT ...
< 1275329170 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO NOT ...
< 1275329173 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PLEASE real code
< 1275329173 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PLEASE real code
< 1275329173 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PLEASE real code
< 1275329174 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel that INTERCAL should not just check please ratio, it should also check that the distribution of the PLEASE over the file is fairly even
< 1275329175 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this acceptable?
< 1275329181 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: underflow
< 1275329196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hard to say
< 1275329197 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know why I love glass so much.
< 1275329209 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: i doubt that the PLEASE ratio ignores comments, after all it is runtime dependent whether a statement _is_ a comment
< 1275329235 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(statements can be reinstated)
< 1275329239 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but if your actual code is sufficiently ass-kissing, is it okay to be rude about comments?
< 1275329245 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess so
< 1275329265 0 :hiato!~fdulu@41-132-88-136.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275329282 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should make aspect-oriented Glass. :)
< 1275329291 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: can't you define things so both DO NOT and PLEASE DO NOT work?
< 1275329305 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, wth does that buzz word even mean?
< 1275329306 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think so
< 1275329311 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :defining PLE and ASE won't work
< 1275329312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never managed to find out
< 1275329315 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait
< 1275329316 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in intercal
< 1275329319 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PLE ASE works doesn't it
< 1275329322 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I /can/ define PLE and ASE
< 1275329323 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should
< 1275329341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, if you can then do meta-programming to combine those?
< 1275329344 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great! I got it working
< 1275329347 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO NOT PLE =: +
< 1275329350 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO NOT ASE =: +
< 1275329356 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then "PLE ASE stuff" just returns it boxed
< 1275329365 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: remember: whitespace doesn't matter
< 1275329366 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: also note that you can have as many J lines _not_ containing a DO or PLEASE as you want inside an INTERCAL comment
< 1275329380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and how do you plan to make PLEASE work? Just by putting DO NOT NB. PLEASE Foo ?
< 1275329388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure that would work
< 1275329405 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would
< 1275329405 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should surely work
< 1275329409 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes a j comment and lets intercal see it
< 1275329420 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh so I don't even /need/ to define PLE and ASE
< 1275329422 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I've ever made a Glass program that used the constructor method
< 1275329430 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah wait
< 1275329434 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still need PLEASE DO NOT
< 1275329453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, just put that in NB every time?
< 1275329457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crude but would work
< 1275329463 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: wait, i think you can make _everything_ inside each other's comments
< 1275329469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, the tricky thing will be making this a quine in both language
< 1275329479 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   DO NOT 0
< 1275329479 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0
< 1275329481 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO NOT does nothing to numbers
< 1275329482 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NB. PLEASE ...here is running intercal...
< 1275329483 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be useful
< 1275329490 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er
< 1275329492 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO NOT DO =: +
< 1275329492 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO NOT NOT =: +
< 1275329492 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO NOT NB. PLEASE ...INTERCAL...
< 1275329492 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO NOT ...J code...
< 1275329499 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NB. PLEASE ...here is running intercal... DO NOT
< 1275329504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yes I'm pretty sure, the only tricky part is the initial mess around at the start
< 1275329511 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: this is amazing
< 1275329511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can hide NB. for intercal
< 1275329529 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO NOT NB. PLEASE intercal
< 1275329529 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :done
< 1275329537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I suggested that yeah
< 1275329541 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   DO NOT NB. PLEASE dsofjsdo h98r
< 1275329542 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :â”Śâ”€â”€â”¬â”€â”€â”€â”
< 1275329542 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :â”‚DOâ”‚NOTâ”‚
< 1275329542 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :â””â”€â”€â”´â”€â”€â”€â”
< 1275329547 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   DO NOT NB. PLEASE #';"$)(*!&"
< 1275329547 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :â”Śâ”€â”€â”¬â”€â”€â”€â”
< 1275329547 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :â”‚DOâ”‚NOTâ”‚
< 1275329547 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :â””â”€â”€â”´â”€â”€â”€â”
< 1275329548 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good
< 1275329552 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO NOT PLEASE
< 1275329553 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1275329555 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   DO NOT 2+2
< 1275329555 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4
< 1275329556 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good
< 1275329571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, that is DO NOT | PLEASE in intercal I think
< 1275329589 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Aaaw.
< 1275329603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, as in different statements
< 1275329623 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   DO NOT ('flatulence' (1!:2) 2)
< 1275329624 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :flatulence
< 1275329624 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|domain error: NOT
< 1275329624 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|   DO     NOT('flatulence'(1!:2)2)
< 1275329624 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn
< 1275329635 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because NOT takes numbers...
< 1275329644 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I'll have to see if I can make DO NOT just spit its output back
< 1275329654 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rofl... I just Facebook'd my Glass program. None of my friends are CS... I hope they don't think that's what all programming languages look like. :P
< 1275329656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, how do you plan to make a quine in both languages out of this?
< 1275329669 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster:  magic
< 1275329702 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   DO NOT #('flatulence' (1!:2) 2)
< 1275329702 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :flatulence
< 1275329702 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10
< 1275329708 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: um i'm not planning it, but surely once you have a way of intertwining arbitrary code in both languages the rest is just technicalities :D
< 1275329723 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: fixed point theorem Q.E.D.
< 1275329772 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I'm going to go watch SG-1
< 1275329773 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: also apart from the first lines it is better to have DO NOT at the _end_ of the INTERCAL lines, then you have almost no restriction on the J on the following line
< 1275329774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, wait, how does that apply to this?
< 1275329784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, anyway text IO is tricky in intercal
< 1275329788 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: fixed point theorem guarantees quines
< 1275329791 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iiuc
< 1275329801 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given textual output
< 1275329812 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, even, outputting its source in encoded roman numerals.
< 1275329813 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO NOT PLE =: +
< 1275329813 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO NOT ASE =: +
< 1275329813 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PLE ASE DO NOT DO =: +
< 1275329813 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PLE ASE DO NOT NOT =: +
< 1275329813 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO NOT #('Hello, world!' (1!:2) 2)
< 1275329815 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO NOT NB. PLEASE ...some intercal code...
< 1275329818 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then switching back is just starting a line with NB. PLEASE or so
< 1275329819 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :valid J and, I think, valid intercal.
< 1275329827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, is that true for polygots too?
< 1275329846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could there not be a polygot of two languages such that no quine exist
< 1275329847 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: polyglots are just a restricted common subset of both languages.
< 1275329847 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes.
< 1275329850 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Uh, yes, you construct quines in the same way for a polyglot.
< 1275329853 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only pathological ones
< 1275329859 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, no
< 1275329864 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can always construct another language to polyglot it with
< 1275329866 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't impede it
< 1275329868 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as the NOP language
< 1275329914 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, you store a string containing (part of) the program and a function to output that string in such a way that you get the program out.
< 1275329926 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/985974.txt?key=gd8gxkx2jxokgj26drzg oh yeah
< 1275329935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, let language X be such that on + it always output the input file, but at _ it outputs a space. Let language Y be such that + outputs a space, but _ outputs the input file
< 1275329936 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# is length
< 1275329940 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the outputting returns the string it outputs
< 1275329941 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I doubt you could make a quine of those
< 1275329941 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-)))
< 1275329943 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why we get 13
< 1275329946 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quine polygot that is
< 1275329952 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: unless the languages are such that there is a strong restriction on what kinds of ordinary programs you can combine into a polyglot, then there should surely be a quine polyglot
< 1275329957 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Requires TC-ness.
< 1275329958 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's not TC
< 1275329963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ah right
< 1275329965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl food
< 1275329966 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and X+Y doesn't have full textual output
< 1275329970 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q.E.D.
< 1275329975 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know it would be cool to make an esolang that had multiple interpreters running on the game gun
< 1275329980 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that it's always ployglotic
< 1275330015 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that just wierd
< 1275330083 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: did you not notice my repeatedly pointing that you _don't_ need DO NOT at the start of every J line, just put it at the end of INTERCAL lines
< 1275330098 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: indeed but that's boring... also, what do you mean?
< 1275330101 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just put NB.?
< 1275330103 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that can't work...
< 1275330107 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO NOT NB. PLEASE ...some intercal code...
< 1275330108 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NB.
< 1275330109 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so end of line
< 1275330112 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we can't put any J in there
< 1275330119 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Qed, pronounced qwed.
< 1275330121 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kwed.
< 1275330137 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: DO NOT should be at the _end_ of intercal lines, not the beginning
< 1275330142 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck is a pretty easy polyglot language. :)
< 1275330150 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to "turn off" intercal
< 1275330152 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: then how do we hide it from J?
< 1275330164 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: NB. PLEASE at the start
< 1275330169 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NB. PLEASE
< 1275330173 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  in an open relationship you're not supposed to hide anything. :P
< 1275330174 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it can't go at the end of intercal lines
< 1275330175 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i see
< 1275330177 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: um that's the same thing
< 1275330181 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fop fop DO NOT
< 1275330182 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fop fop
< 1275330183 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO NOT
< 1275330184 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't hide things from J... be open about what you're doing with INTERCAL
< 1275330186 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it's easier for j this way
< 1275330200 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: no, because the way you do it you cannot have arbitrary J on the _next_ line
< 1275330205 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you still need DO NOT in front of intercal lines
< 1275330207 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the NB.
< 1275330213 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  sometimes honesty is the best policy. It'll be much easier for J
< 1275330225 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: oh NB. is not legal to start a J line?
< 1275330242 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it is
< 1275330243 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO NOT DO =: +
< 1275330243 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO NOT NOT =: +
< 1275330243 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO NOT NB. PLEASE ...some intercal code... PLEASE DO NOT
< 1275330243 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Hello, world!' (1!:2) 2
< 1275330243 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO NOT NB. PLEASE ...some intercal code... PLEASE DO NOT
< 1275330248 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: just not an intercal line :-)
< 1275330278 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: intercal isn't line based, so in NB. PLEASE the actual intercal statement doesn't start until the PLEASE
< 1275330284 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1275330287 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, the above works
< 1275330292 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there'll be a LOT of DO NOTs
< 1275330296 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the intercal code better be very polite
< 1275330313 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: you can use PLEASE NOT as well, you know
< 1275330321 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait
< 1275330331 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PLEASE DON'T
< 1275330350 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's one of the "obvious" possibilities that is illegal, i vaguely recall
< 1275330351 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah use something else
< 1275330358 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no because i dropped the PLE ASE definitions from j :D
< 1275330359 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i guess i can
< 1275330364 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DON'T would be bad
< 1275330383 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: um i mean at the end of INTERCAL lines, where J won't even see them
< 1275330383 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO NOT PLE =: +
< 1275330383 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO NOT ASE =: +
< 1275330383 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PLE ASE DO NOT DO =: +
< 1275330383 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PLE ASE DO NOT NOT =: +
< 1275330383 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PLE ASE DO NOT NB. PLEASE ...some intercal code... DO NOT
< 1275330384 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Hello, world!' (1!:2) 2
< 1275330386 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PLE ASE DO NOT NB. PLEASE ...some intercal code... DO NOT
< 1275330389 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this polite enough? too polite?
< 1275330393 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i did that but it's still a lot of do nots...
< 1275330395 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the ratio?
< 1275330422 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: you cannot escape putting DO NOT's or PLEASE DON'Ts whenever you switch back to J
< 1275330435 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know!!
< 1275330438 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm only asking about politeness
< 1275330457 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't recall.  1/4  or something like that
< 1275330470 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this conversation makes me think of two very demanding women I know.
< 1275330519 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the maximum is pretty high right?
< 1275330521 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it accepts ass-kissing
< 1275330542 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: yeah girls yell PLEASE DON
< 1275330547 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'T to me all the time too
< 1275330575 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: no, it's a fairly narrow bound.
< 1275330581 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: intercal is a bitch :D
< 1275330598 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure if 1/4 is the upper bound or if 1/4 is a safe average with 1/3 the upper bound
< 1275330635 0 :tombom!~tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275330643 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant the lower bound
< 1275330644 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or...
< 1275330645 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like
< 1275330648 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it complains if you say PLEASE too much
< 1275330651 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that figure.
< 1275330654 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so uh do you know an intercal hello world :D
< 1275330662 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :printing a nice roman numeral is acceptable :D
< 1275330669 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really
< 1275330696 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: also did you say DO NOT was a legal, if vacuous J statement?
< 1275330699 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"an INTERCAL de-obfuscator" --C-INTERCAL's Debian summary
< 1275330706 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: iff we do this first:
< 1275330709 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO NOT DO =: +
< 1275330709 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO NOT NOT =: +
< 1275330716 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i guess if we do other things first too but they'd be less obvious
< 1275330722 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and btw i have no idea why that assignment works)
< 1275330724 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: well i'm thinking about _as_ the first line
< 1275330727 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(without DO or NOT being previously assigned)
< 1275330728 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no.
< 1275330751 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: what is the minimum thing starting with DO NOT which is a legal, fairly vacuous J statement?
< 1275330760 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO NOT foo =: bar
< 1275330765 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO NOT x=:+
< 1275330766 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps
< 1275330790 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275330792 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok.  then you can start the file with that.  and you don't even need to _use_ the definitions
< 1275330823 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I'm going to go watch SG-1
< 1275330827 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ...why?
< 1275330831 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean put all the intercal on one line?
< 1275330834 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's totally cheating dude.
< 1275330843 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: yeah
< 1275330848 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're horrible for thinking of that :<
< 1275330862 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather, not _all_ the intercal
< 1275330891 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1275330898 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but each intercal line would be of the form NB. PLEASE ... DO NOT  or NB. DO ... DO NOT
< 1275330940 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(half of each would give 1/4 politeness, i should think)
< 1275330980 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, how does intercal accept the NB.?
< 1275330982 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, because of the DO NOT
< 1275331003 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you also have labels, so there would be things like NB. (3000) PLEASE ... DO NOT
< 1275331008 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(iirc)
< 1275331068 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=476766 The fools! Mozilla added a Chinese government CA certificate!
< 1275331084 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, because the one person we can trust to be honest about claiming to be a certain entity on the motherfucking INTERNET is the CHINESE GOVERNMENT.
< 1275331137 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the obvious compromise would be to allow it only for .cn domains...
< 1275331159 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be rather ridiculous not to trust the chinese government for _that_
< 1275331171 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, or any less than the other governments. ;)
< 1275331222 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I'd let _anything_ to do with the Chinese government anywhere near any of my software.
< 1275331229 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1275331236 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Please remove this root CA!  We Chinese users don't trust CNNIC.
< 1275331236 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Liu Yan said: 2)CNNIC is not a Chinese Government organization.
< 1275331236 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He is cheating!  CNNIC is an infamous organ of the Chinese Communist government
< 1275331236 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to monitor and control the Internet in China.  For secrete reasons they even
< 1275331236 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :distributed spyware by making advantage of their administration privilege:"
< 1275331238 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: like, most of your hardware anyway ;D
< 1275331242 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ Oh look at that.
< 1275331250 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I think computer hardware is mostly made in Taiwan and the like.
< 1275331256 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275331270 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The Chinese government has a root certificate in Mozilla.
< 1275331276 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moreso:
< 1275331277 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Please remove this root CA!  We Chinese users don't trust CNNIC.
< 1275331277 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Liu Yan said: 2)CNNIC is not a Chinese Government organization.
< 1275331277 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He is cheating!  CNNIC is an infamous organ of the Chinese Communist government
< 1275331277 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to monitor and control the Internet in China.  For secrete reasons they even
< 1275331277 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :distributed spyware by making advantage of their administration privilege:]]
< 1275331284 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[They're one of the tools used by the CCP government to censor the Internet
< 1275331284 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :users.  If CNNIC root certificate is added by default as Builtin Object, they
< 1275331284 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can forge verified gmail certificates to cheat the Chinese users by using MITM
< 1275331284 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :attack against the SSL protocol.]]
< 1275331289 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ho ho ho.
< 1275331298 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: also, isn't this old news.  i am sure i saw it on reddit months ago.
< 1275331302 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: who knows.
< 1275331305 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's from jan
< 1275331325 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CNNIC produces one of the best-known malwares in China: the Chinese-Language-Surfing Official Edition(ä¸­ć–‡ä¸Šç˝‘ĺ®ć–ąç‰č˝Żä»¶). The software is frequently bundled with other adware/sharewares. It was declared malware by Beijing Network Industry Association(ĺŚ—äş¬ĺ¸‚ç˝‘ç»śčˇŚä¸šĺŤŹäĽš)[9] and San Ji Wu Xian Co Ltd., the company behind 360 Safeguard(360ĺ®‰ĺ…¨ĺŤ«ĺŁ«), an anti-virus software. San Ji Wu Xian was sued by CNNIC for 150,000 RMB[10][11] and the c
< 1275331326 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ourt ruled out favorably towards CNNIC.
< 1275331394 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh!
< 1275331396 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :food ->
< 1275331397 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Debian has OSSv4!
< 1275331401 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Happiness!
< 1275331407 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Awesome.
< 1275331416 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :p   oss4-base                       - Open Sound System - base package
< 1275331425 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^_^
< 1275331427 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I mostly grok those bits of Chinese.
< 1275331434 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know approximately one word of Chinese. :P
< 1275331550 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Oh dear, and right after I learn that I find a reason to dislike 4Front intensely.
< 1275331552 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://thieta.wordpress.com/2010/04/28/what-ever-happened-to-xmms-org/
< 1275331561 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They sold off xmms.org to a spammer company without asking the XMMS developers.
< 1275331569 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The old XMMS.ORG website, now maintained by Doug Collins, hosts a fake copy of the XMMS website with an added Answers section linking to a fake FAQ created to generate AdSense revenue. There is of course no guarrantee that the code distributed on that domain does not contain malware."
< 1275331684 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: does jack work for general audio stuff?
< 1275331700 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1275331702 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's real-time, at least, so it would be cool if it did
< 1275331705 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster uses it doesn't he
< 1275331710 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275331725 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"JACK can use ALSA, PortAudio, CoreAudio, FreeBoB, FFADO and OSS as hardware back-ends."
< 1275331730 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, I thought JACK could be the endpoint.
< 1275331749 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY DO ALL SOUND SERVERS EITHER SUCK OR HAVE THE PROPERTY OF BEING DEVELOPED BY AN EVIL COMPANY ;_;
< 1275331855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I only use jack because I need low latency when I do audio stuff on my desktop
< 1275331860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a PITA to get it working
< 1275331878 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you think I could buy OSS v4 off 4Front so that I can use it and sleep soundly at night
< 1275331880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you do sound recording it is worth it
< 1275331888 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275331893 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1275331898 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Internet connection, eh?
< 1275331900 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ROUTER STOP RESETTING
< 1275331902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what license? And couldn't you fork it if it went wrong
< 1275331920 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Oh, I'd fork it but it wouldn't be developed.
< 1275331939 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I just don't want to use anything 4Front controls because they sold the xmms.org domain to spammers without the XMMS devs permission and showed no remorse.
< 1275331944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yeah I can't imagine you lead a project with many devleopers
< 1275331948 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So basically they're spammer-enablers.
< 1275331953 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's all "Fuck you, I'm just going to stop now".
< 1275331958 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Hey, I could easily pay tons of people just to get on with it, except I have no money.
< 1275331964 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what CEOs do, right?
< 1275331976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ah I meant lead an open source project where no one is paid
< 1275331983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that requires good people skills you see
< 1275331985 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That produces PulseAudio :P
< 1275331989 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yeah, like Linus has.
< 1275331990 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait.
< 1275331995 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's why Linux is unpopular...
< 1275332015 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I lead a project I'd just do it Linus-style, get sent tons of patches and reject most of them because I don't like them, then reject most of the rest because they made a mistake, then rewrite the rest and merge them in.
< 1275332022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well, he has carisma. It can sometimes replace people skills
< 1275332024 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then just flame people who disagree with me.
< 1275332028 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*charisma.
< 1275332035 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Hey, people still use ion3.
< 1275332043 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, statistical fluke
< 1275332047 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The key to running a successful open source project is being an asshole while producing good code.
< 1275332058 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esr: Asshole, but he doesn't even produce good code
< 1275332065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, oh yes good code is required too. Charisma is a huge plus.
< 1275332065 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rms: I'm not sure he can even program
< 1275332071 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linus: Asshole, good code
< 1275332081 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tuomov: Asshole, haven't read the code but ion3 is quite nice to use
< 1275332083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and charisma, don't forget that
< 1275332090 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suckless guys: *Huge* assholes (see e.g. uriel), brilliant code
< 1275332093 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Nope, charisma is optional
< 1275332096 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The suckless guys don't have any
< 1275332108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, their code is not quite as popular
< 1275332110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean
< 1275332114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't widespread popular
< 1275332122 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guido van Rossum isn't an asshole, but Python is crap.
< 1275332134 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So he's an extreme statistical anomaly: "Nice guy" (I don't really like him), bad code.
< 1275332138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what about Theo de Raat (spelling?)
< 1275332145 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Asshole, good code.
< 1275332148 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No charisma.
< 1275332152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well agreed on that
< 1275332162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, but openbsd is sucky still
< 1275332163 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :matz: ok matz is an exception because he's just so nice that he makes everyone around him kinda happy
< 1275332166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in lots of other ways
< 1275332169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, matz?
< 1275332171 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nice guy. Decent code (when not sleep deprived, which is becoming less frequent these days)
< 1275332173 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Certainly not as far as security goes.
< 1275332176 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :matz made Ruby.
< 1275332182 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's infamous for his sheer niceness.
< 1275332186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ah, so matz is like Carrot from Discworld?
< 1275332190 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's a mormon too, probably that has an effect.
< 1275332203 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Einstein? He's smart? So he's a bit like (random obscure Discworld character), then.
< 1275332234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, carrot is not obscure. Main character
< 1275332240 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shaddap :P
< 1275332254 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders whether xmms2 or MPD is better.
< 1275332255 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1275332260 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably NEITHER because I didn't write either.
< 1275332283 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275332284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, for i in *.ogg; do mplayer "$i"; done
< 1275332294 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you fail
< 1275332306 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... but see
< 1275332322 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, in which way? yes that code is bad, but it is a simplification
< 1275332330 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :being an asshole helps you obtain women. But we all know those guys don't get any...
< 1275332333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reasons of brevity and so on
< 1275332334 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so. paradox?
< 1275332363 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I like to be able to check which track I'm listening to. If you added the appropriate seds, well, this sure is a complicated shell script to replace perfectly decent software. Furthermore, most of the time I just play everything on a big jumble of shuffle because I basically have ADHD.
< 1275332394 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm too picky for shuffle... even with my own collection
< 1275332398 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I like to be able to select a specific track to listen to without typing in a long pathname -- which, indeed, even your script wouldn't support
< 1275332408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, $RAND
< 1275332415 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it's nice to be able to ... you know, your script is pretty much shit so just shut up.
< 1275332427 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to get a larger hard drive. My meager 60 gigs is stacked full with music. Only 10 gigs left
< 1275332431 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're doing the thing you so often accuse me of: generalising from a sample of YOU.
< 1275332434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I didn't say it would fit you
< 1275332444 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Then don't tell me it!
< 1275332453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, adding data point
< 1275332460 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suuure
< 1275332464 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster:  needs more continuation passing style
< 1275332478 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, that bash script? or what?
< 1275332484 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am disappoint. :(
< 1275332490 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( :( :(
< 1275332496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, wait, 60 GB? how old is that
< 1275332508 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's PATA.
< 1275332513 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*IDE
< 1275332516 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PATA is an abomination of a name!
< 1275332520 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...indeed
< 1275332522 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes. IDE
< 1275332522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, yes but even my old PATA was 80 GB
< 1275332525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, why?
< 1275332525 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless it's SCSI.
< 1275332527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is ATA
< 1275332529 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In which case PATA is acceptable.
< 1275332531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :over IDE
< 1275332531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure
< 1275332534 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Because fuck you, it's IDE.
< 1275332534 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1275332537 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody called it PATA back then.
< 1275332542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay
< 1275332546 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just say "parallel"
< 1275332549 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, PATA is even retroactive.
< 1275332551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, but PATA for SCSI doesn't make a lot of sense
< 1275332554 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you must be pedantically correct, say ATA.
< 1275332572 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or howsabout not talking about it at all because it sucks :P
< 1275332613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, Parallel ATA
< 1275332613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia  (Redirected from Integrated Drive Electronics)
< 1275332619 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, read the damn page.
< 1275332626 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PATA is a retroactive name.
< 1275332632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, nothing wrong with that
< 1275332639 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it is
< 1275332643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why?
< 1275332654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, do you say "world war one"?
< 1275332666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't called that until after WWII
< 1275332679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well perhaps during WWII
< 1275332686 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not in the time between the world wars
< 1275332698 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a stupid comparison. You're stupid.
< 1275332706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, why is it a stupid comparison
< 1275332717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can't find a good response to it?
< 1275332726 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is usually the cause when you act like that
< 1275332730 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go away from my irc window i did not invite you into this font :|
< 1275332741 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Usually, actually, it's just the point where you come up with something so stupid that I realise I shouldn't even bother
< 1275332748 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well feel free to /ignore me
< 1275332765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that, or you /parting, is the only way I'm going to go away from your irc window
< 1275332776 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well /quit on your side would work too
< 1275332778 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rage against the machine *grrrr*
< 1275332782 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We will not back down!
< 1275332842 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone know Grizzly Bear?
< 1275332852 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a band, btw)
< 1275332867 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1275332873 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am all up-to-date with the hipster garabe
< 1275332888 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((stupid last.fm meme btw... well, last.fm is stupid in itself))
< 1275332903 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...but it's quality. I don't even give a fuck about hipsters
< 1275332977 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never contradicted any of those words :P
< 1275333026 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish you could get Foobar200 for Linux (don't say Wine).
< 1275333029 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*2000
< 1275333082 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also what the fuck is it with Quod Libet not even doing gapless playback
< 1275333095 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd try Aqualung but....... it's fugly
< 1275333100 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Wine
< 1275333109 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I said don't say Wine
< 1275333111 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Wine
< 1275333123 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Don't say avocado
< 1275333127 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Wine
< 1275333130 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Don't say devil's avocado
< 1275333133 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Say Wine
< 1275333133 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Wine
< 1275333137 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Say Wine
< 1275333145 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think 4 times is enough
< 1275333150 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/
< 1275333226 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :devil's guacamole
< 1275333358 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Wine.
< 1275333364 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also guacamole.
< 1275333383 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise:  but you can use Wine to get Foobar200
< 1275333403 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*2000
< 1275333405 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Music is for the weak!
< 1275333407 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, but only in a shitty form
< 1275333412 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :native-windows software > the former emulated with wine
< 1275333425 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foobar > linux players > wine/foobar
< 1275333433 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wine Is Not An Emulator.
< 1275333489 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shut up
< 1275333532 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275333569 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am so pissed off that 4front had to be evil :D
< 1275333586 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Dead pixels in the sky.
< 1275333620 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: It's not shitty
< 1275333636 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://deadbeef.sourceforge.net/ Oh, this looks good.
< 1275333642 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: you're shitty :|
< 1275333650 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just feel evil whenever I use wine
< 1275333651 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno why
< 1275333677 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MAYBE I'LL JUST USE KJOFOL.
< 1275333713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm does vlc or mplayer give you gapless playback?
< 1275333722 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just for debugging the issue I mean
< 1275333723 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"mplayer x; mplayer y" definitely not
< 1275333726 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think mplayer x y has a gap
< 1275333729 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while it loads the file
< 1275333732 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's def. quod libet
< 1275333734 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most players aren't gapless
< 1275333737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ah I thought you meant stuttering
< 1275333742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gaps in that way
< 1275333748 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: gapless = track x finishes, track y is already buffered and so streams immediately
< 1275333751 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :segues are preserved
< 1275333759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1275333779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, doesn
< 1275333781 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... can I run this IRC in a debugger?
< 1275333783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't* vlc do that
< 1275333787 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think we compiled it for that.
< 1275333791 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: lol
< 1275333797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, at least when playing back from cd with 0 gap between tracks
< 1275333801 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: dunno. vlc is not really a good music manager though :P
< 1275333803 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I could fix some of my HORRID TYPOS
< 1275333806 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT I ALWAYS HAVE
< 1275333808 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, also rythmbox?
< 1275333810 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rhythm
< 1275333812 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND CRUISE CONTROL LIKE THIS
< 1275333816 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also... rhythmbox is the shit.
< 1275333818 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know if rhythmbox does but i don't like the progam
< 1275333819 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*program
< 1275333828 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, oh I see, I found it quite okay
< 1275333830 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rhythmbox has gapless playback, yes.
< 1275333831 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does the basic stuff
< 1275333841 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has some stupid ubuntu one cloud music storage thing integrated now
< 1275333852 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275333852 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but you can just ignore it.
< 1275333857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, even on non-ubuntu distros?
< 1275333859 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't care I like trusting my players :P
< 1275333861 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, no.
< 1275333872 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway i just don't like the ui
< 1275333874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, patch package then
< 1275333876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ah okay
< 1275333889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found rythmbox to be quite reasonable in jaunty at least
< 1275333889 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO something like mpd or xmms2 is definitely the "future" technologically
< 1275333904 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :having the actual track-browser-adder-editor-deleter-switcher thing /do the actual audio commands/ is... ludicrous
< 1275333907 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from an architectural perspective
< 1275333922 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if you want multiple clients, say over a network? what about multiple interfaces, for different purposes? a web interface, say?
< 1275333929 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1275333929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, isn't mpd just a server?
< 1275333931 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GUI libraries aren't all that reliable sometimes, too...
< 1275333935 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes; and xmms2 as well.
< 1275333941 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, interesting
< 1275333947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, which GUIs do you use for them?
< 1275333955 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They maintain the music library and do playing/shuffling/etc, and you can use any client you want.
< 1275333961 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't know -- I'm not sure they have decent clients!
< 1275333973 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to write my own mpd client a while back which suggests to me I was dissatisfied with the existing crop.
< 1275333988 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait! There's that -- what was it called -- that nick guy made it
< 1275333996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1275333996 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Corn. A lovely name...
< 1275334002 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes me think of feet.
< 1275334015 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://incise.org/corn.html
< 1275334016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhu
< 1275334018 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275334024 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flaws:
< 1275334028 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, corn makes me think of... corn
< 1275334030 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- uses xine
< 1275334030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1275334034 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- does it do gapless??
< 1275334040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, okay xine is shit
< 1275334040 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yeah but i had corns on my feet at one point so
< 1275334052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I see. I had shoes more often
< 1275334055 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i think they're still there, they've just sort of died... gross
< 1275334062 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: lol
< 1275334068 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I'M DRESSED ENTIRELY IN CEREAL. HI."
< 1275334087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I was thinking of the corn you find at fields in the country
< 1275334092 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes :P
< 1275334104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, not as processed cereal
< 1275334121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so it is some disease as well? or what?
< 1275334123 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Corn is a cereal.
< 1275334132 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: corns are just like... I don't even know what they are, just hard skin things on your feet
< 1275334147 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Callus#Corns
< 1275334147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, isn't cereal the thing in a box saying "breakfast cereal"?
< 1275334149 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Callus of dead skin.
< 1275334150 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lovely!
< 1275334154 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, but also the crops
< 1275334178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1275334232 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll try Aqualung, with the plain skin it doesn't look *too* bad: http://aqualung.factorial.hu/screenshots/plain.png
< 1275334283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, reminds me of windowmaker
< 1275334291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure why
< 1275334302 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1275334306 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's the fugly default skin: http://aqualung.factorial.hu/screenshots/default.png
< 1275334311 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like Acorn RISC OS, with that background pattern.
< 1275334315 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that antialiasing.
< 1275334318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, marble
< 1275334324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marbelus
< 1275334327 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD
< 1275334344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, or one step further: marbelus marvel
< 1275334348 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote <AnMaster> alise, marble  <AnMaster> marbelus
< 1275334352 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if addquote works
< 1275334359 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope.
< 1275334368 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1275334375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, anyway, I like "marbelus marvel"
< 1275334385 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like a bad comic character.
< 1275334400 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Here! You! Be my Richard Stallman:
< 1275334404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait it is spelled marvellous... so "mabellous mavel"
< 1275334406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ^
< 1275334412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh
< 1275334417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marbellous mavel
< 1275334423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marbellous marvel
< 1275334424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even
< 1275334426 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1275334430 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Is it immoral to use an open-source product by a company if one of that company's developers, approvedly, sold the XMMS.org domain to spammers?
< 1275334434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what do you mean "Be my Richard Stallman:"
< 1275334436 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I need guidance, O Wise One.
< 1275334445 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, that virtual rms program that complains about non-free packages.
< 1275334455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, who developed that product? Community?
< 1275334455 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You're ever-so-slightly more intelligent than a simple program, so you can handle this more complex question.
< 1275334461 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's OSSv4, by 4Front.
< 1275334470 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was developed by the company.
< 1275334475 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's in Debian and all.
< 1275334482 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so not much by external contributors?
< 1275334484 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope.
< 1275334492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I never much liked xmms
< 1275334495 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The product is perfectly fine, and I assume the developers on that product.
< 1275334498 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it gives me a bad taste.
< 1275334501 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: So what? The developers are nice guys.
< 1275334503 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has a bizarre history.
< 1275334510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1275334510 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://thieta.wordpress.com/2010/04/28/what-ever-happened-to-xmms-org/
< 1275334519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and I don't know
< 1275334522 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That all changed a couple of weeks ago when the XMMS.org webserver admin received a email from 4Front CEO Dev Mazumdar, stating that he had sold the domain to a company and wanted a full webpage dump. Needless to say, that was pretty surprising! We immediately responded that we where interested in taking over the domain instead, since a lot of us where still actively using it for email and personal webspace. The reply was “We invested a lot of money into X
< 1275334522 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MMS development”, which is an interesting reply on all accounts. Quickly after that the domain was moved and we barely had time to move all our accounts away from the addresses, Dev told us that we should just use xmms.se and xmms2.org instead.
< 1275334523 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[...]
< 1275334524 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That list of domains are pretty interesting, note the zinf.org in the end, it’s another open source media player, that has been mostly abandoned as well. It took us a while, but finally we spotted something odd on both goftp.com and zinf.org, linked from the first page there is a new button called “Answers” if you follow it you end up on http://www.zinf.org/qna, I bet the original zinf site didn’t have that on there. So far nothing like this has been
< 1275334525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, alsa + jack works for me
< 1275334529 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : added to the xmms.org site, but I guess it’s just a matter of time. Buying these sites just seems to be a way to drive his ad revenue.
< 1275334531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or alsa + pulsecrap
< 1275334531 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Recent digging also shows that the same guy have registered xmms3.org and xmms3.com as well!
< 1275334533 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must say that I don’t really believe that this company will restart development of XMMS or pay any money to 4Front for continue the development. I really hope that Dev lied to us directly about it, otherwise he is pretty dense.
< 1275334537 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lessee. Developed by that company, got put into Linux, forked into proprietary product, and remade free software.
< 1275334559 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Supposedly the code isn't very good, but come on, it does everything ALSA does but better and with really low latency
< 1275334563 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(competitive with JACK iirc)
< 1275334571 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and has an ALSA compatibility layer (ha!))
< 1275334576 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't very good as in
< 1275334580 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't obey kernel module coding standards
< 1275334580 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Better than ALSA.
< 1275334655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find alsa works quite well for my hardware
< 1275334658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'm lucky
< 1275334681 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've had decent luck with ALSA's *drivers*. It's just a royal pain in userspace.
< 1275334684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and jack uses alsa as the backend afaik
< 1275334691 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's just too damned much to it!
< 1275334696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, it doesn't do it's own kernel drivers
< 1275334716 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: anyway, I'm only asking about morals.
< 1275334718 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: you can answer too :P
< 1275334723 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And this is why we've *still* got myriad abstraction layers that try and make it cleaner!
< 1275334743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, do whatever maximises the total good in the universe
< 1275334748 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Even RMS doesn't go so far as to forever condemn a company for a single evil act.
< 1275334752 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Repugnant Conclusion
< 1275334757 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean whatever minimises the total harm
< 1275334764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, *googles "Repugnant"*
< 1275334768 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1275334771 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Repugnant Conclusion
< 1275334777 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :repugnant just means foul
< 1275334783 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: but they sold a domain to a spammer, knowingly!
< 1275334796 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without asking the xmms people!
< 1275334805 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then justified it after the found out by saying they'd "spent a lot of money on xmms.org"!
< 1275334818 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes, that makes them either temporarily evil or absolutely freaking *dense*.
< 1275334831 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... I can sleep at night?
< 1275334834 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_>
< 1275334837 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see nothing wrong with just using OSSv4, no.
< 1275334850 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Worst* case scenario, you'll have to go back to ALSA.
< 1275334852 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT SHALL BE DONE, as soon as I figure out how to disable pulseaudio.
< 1275334860 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if they do a bizarro bait-and-switch)
< 1275334877 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe a bait and BITCH.
< 1275334885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ah right
< 1275334903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, not only that, but it is also an useless suggestion in practise
< 1275334915 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :utilitarianism only works for broader moral decisions :P
< 1275334920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yep
< 1275334921 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not "can i sleep at night while doing this"
< 1275334943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what was the name of that one that looked at character traits or something
< 1275334955 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1275334972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :different groups of ethics philosphy
< 1275334975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spelling
< 1275334980 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :??
< 1275335000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aristotle invented it iirc
< 1275335008 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your mother invented aristotle
< 1275335026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah found it with interwiki:
< 1275335028 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtue_ethics
< 1275335029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ^
< 1275335049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, just as useless
< 1275335053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not more
< 1275335055 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I refuse to accept any non-consequentialist moral system :P
< 1275335065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ah I see
< 1275335067 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a utilitarian but that has nothing to do with OSSv4 :D
< 1275335081 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, then I will recommend: Do whatever you want (nihilism)
< 1275335089 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that isn't nihilism!
< 1275335095 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY DOES NOBODY UNDERSTAND NIHILISM
< 1275335098 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, applied nihilism
< 1275335115 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :touche
< 1275335207 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1275335358 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1275335360 0 :alise!~alise@91.105.86.86 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275335363 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops.
< 1275335508 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sudo update-rc.d pulseaudio stop 50 2 3 4 5 .
< 1275335509 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~
< 1275335527 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm that doesn't work
< 1275335639 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, btw wikipedia lists a number of interesting arguments against the repugnant conclusion
< 1275335664 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean the "it isn't actually repugnant one"?
< 1275335674 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look at the two equivalent societies. Decide which you'd rather live in.
< 1275335682 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not the one where everyone's just barely happy.
< 1275335685 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q.E.D.
< 1275335689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I meant the "comparison is incompatible"
< 1275335694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so not the one you thought I meant
< 1275335699 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That goes against utilitarianism, then.
< 1275335727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The comparison between A and A+ was partly dependent on their separation."
< 1275335747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure there is counter-criticism on that again
< 1275335771 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm - is removing ubuntu-desktop really so bad?
< 1275335771 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, as for "Of course one can simply accept the Repugnant Conclusion. TorbjĂ¶rn TĂ¤nnsjĂ¶ argues that we have a false intuition of the moral weight of billions upon billions of lives "barely worth living". He argues that we must consider that life in Z would not be terrible, and that in our actual world, most lives are actually not far above, and often fall below, the level of "not worth living". T
< 1275335771 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :herefore the Repugnant Conclusion really isn't so repugnant."
< 1275335774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1275335779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on how selfish you are
< 1275335792 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really. the best society has /everyone/ being happy
< 1275335794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, lots of things depend on it or something iirc
< 1275335801 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, it just depends on everything
< 1275335806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes, here is a one way ticket to utopia
< 1275335807 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's for updates or something
< 1275335807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have fun
< 1275335810 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but is that really so bad?
< 1275335820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, don't know
< 1275335825 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's not utopia unless everyone else is there and it's post-singularity and people aren't left behind
< 1275335834 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1275335836 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if I really knew it was utopia I'd go through -- since it would basically let us all time-travel to post-Singularity
< 1275335840 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not, it's not actually utopia for me.
< 1275335859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, wrong. My utopia would not have you in it. So "everyone but ehird" ;P
< 1275335865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every utopia is personal IMO
< 1275335886 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure CEV would solve this problem by either separating us entirely, or modifying us to not dislike each other (god I hope not).
< 1275335890 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, you know, improving you so you're more like me.
< 1275335896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, CEV?
< 1275335928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you mean improving _you_ of course. Not me. ;P
< 1275335943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm already perfect and so on
< 1275335962 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coherent Extrapolated Volition.
< 1275336020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, eh. Is this like "<insert deity of your choice if you choice>"?
< 1275336031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you choose'
< 1275336035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/'/*/
< 1275336087 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1275336096 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the architecture proposed in Creating Friendly AI for resolving conflict in human desires
< 1275336105 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://singinst.org/upload/CEV.html
< 1275336114 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"WARNING: Beware of things that are fun to argue." :-)
< 1275336196 0 :ws!wswieb@akson.sgh.waw.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275336793 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1275336969 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is being too lazy to add further optimisations.
< 1275336976 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is probably not a good thing.
< 1275337003 0 :alise!~alise@91.105.86.86 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275337017 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone know how to disable ALSA?
< 1275337026 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is being too lazy to add further optimisations.
< 1275337027 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is probably not a good thing.
< 1275337035 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Which distro?
< 1275337044 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ubuntu.
< 1275337055 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You *should* be able to unload the ALSA modules.
< 1275337066 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, but what about freaky autoload-at-startup stuff.
< 1275337066 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rmmod.
< 1275337072 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha
< 1275337073 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blacklisting ALSA Kernel Modules
< 1275337073 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sudo dpkg-reconfigure linux-sound-base
< 1275337085 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol it uninstalls alsa altogether
< 1275337087 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok maybe i'll just do that
< 1275337103 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahahah.
< 1275337129 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> Flannel: It's a good thing I know what I'm doing, or this would arguably be insanely stupid.
< 1275337142 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird@ehird-desktop:~$ sudo apt-get purge pulseaudio gstreamer0.10-pulseaudio
< 1275337146 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am doing a reasonable thing here
< 1275337158 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HA HA THE PULSEAUDIO IS DEAD
< 1275337167 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, yes. Purge Pulseaudio.
< 1275337180 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOODBYE ALSA-BASE! GOODBYE ALSA-UTILS!
< 1275337182 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA
< 1275337191 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ROCKET BRAIN SURGERY ON UBUTNU
< 1275337193 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*UBUNTU
< 1275337200 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Blacklisting ALSA Kernel Modules"
< 1275337202 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WE'RE NOT DONE YET
< 1275337246 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In general, it's better to have applications use the OSS API or a higher level sound API/library with OSS4, but if you have the libasound2-plugins package (it's pre-installed on standard Ubuntu installs), it is possible to have ALSA applications output to OSS with this workaround (the first method).
< 1275337251 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing supports OSS any more, though :P
< 1275337255 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mplayer does. Anything else?
< 1275337260 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... do things like xine?
< 1275337279 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, *most* things support OSS.
< 1275337300 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not what I wanted to hear! I DO NOT WANT TO HAVE TO CONFIGURE MORE! :P
< 1275337300 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALSA only exists on Linux. OSS exists on almost every other UNIX.
< 1275337309 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Xine supports OSS, yes.
< 1275337357 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: See, if this were Gentoo, you'd just do USE="-alsa oss", rebuild, and call it a day.
< 1275337360 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1275337387 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, the OSSv4 in Ubuntu is one build behind. I do not feel like using their binaries
< 1275337389 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'll use it!
< 1275337401 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know gstreamer can use oss
< 1275337424 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.opensound.com/wiki/index.php/Configuring_Applications_for_OSSv4
< 1275337470 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Sweet, I just realised I'm gonna have to use their custom mixer application
< 1275337474 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the good fight I'm fighting right??
< 1275337502 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : For OSS to work on a system with a given sound card, there must be an OSS
< 1275337502 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : driver for that card in the kernel. For Linux 2.6, a custom oss4-modules
< 1275337502 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : package can be built from the sources in the oss4-source package using the
< 1275337502 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : module-assistant utility.
< 1275337505 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure hope it supports my onboard
< 1275337520 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what I'll have to do
< 1275337539 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Error! Bad return status for module build on kernel: 2.6.32-22-generic (x86_64)
< 1275337539 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consult the make.log in the build directory
< 1275337540 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/var/lib/dkms/oss4/4.2-build2002/build/ for more information.
< 1275337578 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : For OSS to work on a system with a given sound card, there must be an OSS
< 1275337578 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : driver for that card in the kernel. For Linux 2.6, a custom oss4-modules
< 1275337578 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : package can be built from the sources in the oss4-source package using the
< 1275337578 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : module-assistant utility.
< 1275337580 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess I have to do this then
< 1275337657 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Haha what am I doing to my system.
< 1275337838 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : â”‚ cp: cannot stat                                                            â–’
< 1275337838 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : â”‚ `/lib/modules/2.6.32-22-generic/source/include/linux/limits.h': No such    â–’
< 1275337839 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : â”‚ file or directory                                                          â–’
< 1275337841 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS IS PROBLEM?
< 1275337866 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is alrdy installed :<
< 1275337872 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i so confused
< 1275337893 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO NO! NO NONONO! There's no limits nono!
< 1275337936 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Oh. You don't have kernel headers installed.
< 1275337953 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do
< 1275337959 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :relet: NO :<
< 1275337970 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Not the ones for module building.
< 1275337978 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YESS I DO.
< 1275337980 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, topology man.
< 1275337986 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1275337996 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Topology, man. Like... what the shit, man..."
< 1275338001 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls /lib/modules/2.6.32-22-generic/source/include/linux
< 1275338003 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the Moore neighbourhood work with spheres?
< 1275338011 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls: cannot access /lib/modules/2.6.32-22-generic/source/include/linux: No such file or directory
< 1275338014 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU#
< 1275338017 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/#$//
< 1275338024 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, don't have it.
< 1275338031 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there no packaj :<
< 1275338049 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kernel source or kernel-build or something.
< 1275338102 0 :uorygl!~Warrigal@rrcs-70-63-156-144.midsouth.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275338115 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :installin kernel source :<<<< but it already there
< 1275338116 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wai
< 1275338119 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No candidate version found for kernel-source
< 1275338119 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No candidate version found for kernel-source
< 1275338120 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WUT WUT
< 1275338124 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i don't really know
< 1275338131 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cry
< 1275338184 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION unstal oss to use packaj
< 1275338189 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "obvious" way of making a sphere from squares ends up with some squares at the poles that don't have 8 neighbors
< 1275338190 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: OK. Me and AnMaster had an argument about it a while ago.
< 1275338202 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :toooooo traumattic
< 1275338203 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that's what I was thinking.
< 1275338224 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also thought that the hairy ball theorem came into it
< 1275338236 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since you need to have a pole somewhere.
< 1275338236 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i think i recall that discussion
< 1275338242 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION see .deb
< 1275338243 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION lick deb
< 1275338252 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why am I pretending to be a small, fluffy, retarded animal?
< 1275338255 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: there might be an argument there.  hm.
< 1275338264 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Because you are one?
< 1275338266 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gahahahahahaha hairy ball theorem :D
< 1275338273 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea why I said that...
< 1275338286 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahahahahahahahah hairy ball theorem
< 1275338296 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION fell asleep in the middle of the day
< 1275338303 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_
< 1275338307 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hairy ball theorem
< 1275338311 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agahgahgahahahahaja :D
< 1275338313 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahem
< 1275338315 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well he's said he's small, he might well be fluffy.  and the State says he's retarded
< 1275338330 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is mentally ill strictly the same thing as retarded
< 1275338334 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION mew
< 1275338336 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I never thought it was funny when I first heard of it.
< 1275338336 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The theorem that you are a hairy ball? It's been mathematically proven?
< 1275338337 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i make mewing noises too!
< 1275338345 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: give or take a few marbles
< 1275338347 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: IT IS FUNI BECAUSE IT IS LIKE GENITALIA
< 1275338356 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...but i'm a FLUFFY ball tyvm
< 1275338358 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: No, it's something boring with vector fields on spheres.
< 1275338389 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: oh hm i remembered another reason
< 1275338397 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, get out of Limbo, dangit
< 1275338406 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO
< 1275338418 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :************************************************************
< 1275338418 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* NOTE! You are using trial version of Open Sound System   *
< 1275338418 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :************************************************************
< 1275338420 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Pope said Limbo doesn't exist.
< 1275338421 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The prebuilt packages available for download on this page are licensed under the 4Front Commercial License. These packages contain drivers which are not licensed under the various Open Source license. The packages come with a 1 year time limited license key and a permanant license key that will entitle you to free support and upgrades can be ordered here
< 1275338422 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1275338422 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QED.
< 1275338435 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: What is it?
< 1275338479 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--enable-libsalsa=NO: Don't build libsalsa (Linux only - other OSs don't build libsalsa).
< 1275338483 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT I WANT LIBSALSA :((
< 1275338525 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planar_graph#Euler.27s_formula
< 1275338559 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  emacs23: Depends: libasound2 (> 1.0.22) but it is not installable
< 1275338560 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT.
< 1275338592 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Because the Moore neighbourhood would violate it for a polyhedron?
< 1275338604 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i suspect so
< 1275338633 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lessee all faces are squares
< 1275338636 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to visualise it
< 1275338659 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each vertex borders 4 squares
< 1275338679 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each edge is shared between 2 faces
< 1275338700 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each squares has 4 vertices.  so f = v
< 1275338714 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i on oss nao
< 1275338724 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am
< 1275338725 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :happy
< 1275338741 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each square has 4 edges, so um, 2f = e
< 1275338745 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all i have to do now is swappy chans ^_^
< 1275338762 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: the problem is that gentoo sucks :P
< 1275338777 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :osspartysh, i hope that is really a party in oss
< 1275338778 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: :P
< 1275338785 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :       osspartysh - reverse "telnet" utility for OSs technical support
< 1275338791 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a polyhedron you have one more face than for just a planar graph (the outside)
< 1275338793 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love commercial software, it's so queer
< 1275338799 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :       The  osspartysh is an utility that makes it possible to a remote suport
< 1275338799 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :       engineer to share the session with a customer. The session runs in cusâ€
< 1275338799 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :       tomer's  computer  but  both  the customer and the support engineer can
< 1275338799 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :       type comands and see the output. It is possible to run commands like vi
< 1275338799 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :       to edit files.
< 1275338812 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so v - e + f = 3
< 1275338831 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And v=f and e=2f.
< 1275338846 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So f-2f+f=0
< 1275338848 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um i think that 3 is wrong
< 1275338849 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QED.
< 1275338858 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q. E. D.
< 1275338864 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um that's not qed
< 1275338868 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD
< 1275338873 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"1+1=2. Q.E.D."
< 1275338873 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait
< 1275338891 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ITYM âŽ
< 1275338903 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QED is LATIN!
< 1275338916 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Personally I'd write "Quod erat demonstrandum." out in full if I ever proved, say, the Riemann hypothesis.
< 1275338931 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er for a cube v = 8, e = 12, f = 6  so v - e + f = 2
< 1275338939 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd write the whole proof in Latin.
< 1275338953 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: 2!=0.
< 1275338955 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: oh wait, the wikipedia formula _includes_ the outer region
< 1275338956 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QED
< 1275338967 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: xD
< 1275338973 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: agree
< 1275338976 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I doubt anyone ever would blame you.
< 1275338983 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Yes, I agree, 2 is not 0."
< 1275338995 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Can you imagining finishing such a proof with a âŽ? Pfft.
< 1275339013 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And why would you ABBREVIATE it when this is, like, the biggest thing in mathematics ever? YOU'RE ALLOWED TO MASTURBATE IN THIS PAPER
< 1275339047 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, if I was proving arithmetic inconsistent I'd probably write "sorry".
< 1275339047 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me guesses to restart now would be good.
< 1275339048 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd even accept Wolfram using cellular automatons to do the proof.
< 1275339051 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'justincase'
< 1275339052 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: :D
< 1275339058 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if he pulled it off)
< 1275339062 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Same.
< 1275339072 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps even "Mea culpa".
< 1275339088 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hence proving the RH undecidable is also apology-worthy.
< 1275339112 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd end "ZFC is inconsistent" with a partial list of Obsoleted References, ending in "..."
< 1275339120 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which would just be a random selection of famous papers that... used ZFC.
< 1275339121 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: LMAO
< 1275339144 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: i was just confused by the constant in wikipedia's version of the formula
< 1275339161 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reboot time now!!
< 1275339173 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw you guys /may/ also see me on wednesday.
< 1275339181 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since i come back home in tuesday
< 1275339263 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1275339344 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euler_characteristic#Examples
< 1275339414 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which shows us that from those examples, only the torus, mobius strip and klein bottle have a chance of working perfectly with moore neigborhoods
< 1275339434 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, indeed.
< 1275339448 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah, Real Projective Life seemed neat.
< 1275339455 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm. have there been any esoteric languages proposed which would correspond to BASIC in an esoteric natural language?
< 1275339466 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why wouldn't you do Real Projective Life?
< 1275339470 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i think we checked that all those work previously
< 1275339479 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Euler characteristic 1.
< 1275339488 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/wouldn't/couldn't/
< 1275339488 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moore neighbourhood has EC 0.
< 1275339497 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: we cannot cover it properly with squares such that each square has 8 neighboors
< 1275339500 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*bors
< 1275339514 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION briefly attempts to do so.
< 1275339515 0 :alise!~alise@91.105.86.86 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275339522 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who wants to see the OSS v4 graphical mixer?
< 1275339529 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/e7qN6.png
< 1275339530 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FOOLS!
< 1275339535 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You cannot see it without going insane!
< 1275339545 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides he cannot do it.
< 1275339552 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: good thing I didn't look at it.
< 1275339554 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks at it.
< 1275339563 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All I want is a single slider.
< 1275339565 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if an insane person looks at it?
< 1275339569 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :relet: erm "natural" as in non-programming?
< 1275339580 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They go so insane they wrap back around again, become sane again, then it goes so far they become insane again.
< 1275339583 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Overall, no change.
< 1275339585 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm
< 1275339599 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathematics: the natural programming language.
< 1275339605 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All other programming languages are constructed.
< 1275339708 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey oerjan
< 1275339712 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's an anagram of banach-tarski?
< 1275339741 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell sort "banach-tarski"
< 1275339757 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sheesh
< 1275339761 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: "I kan hat a crabs"
< 1275339770 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you were meant to take the bait and say "banach-tarski banach-tarski" :(
< 1275339773 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Data.List;main=print$sort "banach-tarski"
< 1275339775 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"-aaabchiknrst"
< 1275339786 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: yes, but that answer is also correct.
< 1275339841 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ransack habit
< 1275339886 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone know how to swap channels in oss4?
< 1275339890 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good one!
< 1275339899 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU'RE ALL DOING IT WRONG
< 1275339903 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :barack's hatin'
< 1275339904 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The argument list for defgeneric includes fun-name.
< 1275339908 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Must abuse.
< 1275339912 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do you need to swap channels?
< 1275339925 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Lithping, are we?
< 1275339931 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: my speaker cable only reaches the wrong way around
< 1275339932 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah.
< 1275339935 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1275339941 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indheed.
< 1275339946 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could maybe stretch it to work but.. nah
< 1275339949 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*but...
< 1275339952 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: that is not how lisps work.
< 1275339955 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: also scheme is better
< 1275339964 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not care.
< 1275339968 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*\m/ Knights of the Lambda Calculus forever \m/*
< 1275339995 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/
< 1275339995 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :         |
< 1275339995 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :         >\
< 1275340012 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi: What manner of creature are you?
< 1275340018 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's half-bot, half-human
< 1275340019 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so no LambdaMOO today?
< 1275340022 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the terminator if he was half-human
< 1275340026 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: well i have an account...
< 1275340039 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So go on it?
< 1275340044 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why?
< 1275340048 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's nobody there!
< 1275340070 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, osstest(1) uses really cheesy music
< 1275340136 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :satanic barakh - where did i cheat?
< 1275340136 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, /dev/dsp
< 1275340137 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonderful
< 1275340143 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: lol
< 1275340149 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use letters twice, they proved that
< 1275340151 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1275340158 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey good point :D
< 1275340192 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll go continue watching SG-1 then
< 1275340225 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: hey it's more plausible than most 666 attempts
< 1275340242 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, listen!
< 1275340260 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :666 attempts?
< 1275340292 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: number of the beast
< 1275340388 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six."
< 1275340488 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(from Revelations 13:18)
< 1275340564 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's an incorrect translation btw :P
< 1275340565 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 616
< 1275340615 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically every man christians have ever disliked, they've tried to find some way to connect that number with him.  usually by turning letters into numbers, since that's what the ancients used to do
< 1275340633 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: [dubious; discuss]
< 1275340641 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: IT'S POETIC.
< 1275340672 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Six hundred threescore and six" > "six hundred and sixteen"
< 1275340687 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah yeah i know
< 1275340688 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1275340692 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole bible is dubious though
< 1275340697 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, Sgeo_ knows you know
< 1275340701 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone ping me plz
< 1275340724 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I regret that now.
< 1275340752 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1275340753 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in nickping
< 1275340776 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Unknown command"
< 1275340792 0 :ws!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ...
< 1275340830 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr
< 1275340832 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just mention my name
< 1275340839 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise
< 1275340844 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works yay
< 1275340852 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why?
< 1275340860 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Switched sound system to OSSv4.
< 1275340898 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell sum . map (subtract 96 . fromEnum) $ "barackobama"
< 1275340900 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :68
< 1275340912 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1275340927 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell sum . map (fromEnum) $ "barackobama"
< 1275340929 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1124
< 1275340934 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :needs work there
< 1275340948 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah!
< 1275340961 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brackko bama
< 1275340980 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly we need a function solver
< 1275340984 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f("barackobama") = 666
< 1275340990 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then we can justify it :P
< 1275341013 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell main = print (sum (map (fromEnum) beast) - 666)/length beast where beast="barackobama"
< 1275341025 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch
< 1275341058 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHO
< 1275341059 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a
< 1275341063 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :flac -d --stdout "foo.flac" >/dev/dsp
< 1275341066 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the slow remix :DDD
< 1275341076 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is sweet
< 1275341079 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AHAHAHA
< 1275341084 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so deep
< 1275341088 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell main = print (sum (map (fromEnum) beast) - 666)//length beast where beast="barackobama"; a//b = fromIntegral a/fromIntegral b
< 1275341110 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek
< 1275341115 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell main = print $ (sum (map (fromEnum) beast) - 666)//length beast where beast="barackobama"; a//b = fromIntegral a/fromIntegral b
< 1275341118 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :41.63636363636363
< 1275341132 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very plausible
< 1275341135 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat.
< 1275341161 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell main = print $ (sum (map (fromEnum) beast) - 666)//length beast where beast="barack obama"; a//b = fromIntegral a/fromIntegral b
< 1275341163 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :40.833333333333336
< 1275341185 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is terrifying
< 1275341260 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell main = print $ (sum (map (fromEnum) beast) - 666)//length beast where beast="barackhobama"; a//b = fromIntegral a/fromIntegral b
< 1275341269 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :46.833333333333336
< 1275341275 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why the hell do you have to put * around CL globals?
< 1275341281 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's so hard to type!
< 1275341290 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: *it's-not-globals-it's-special-variables-iirc*
< 1275341297 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*they're-like-dynamic-scoping*
< 1275341307 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yesyesyes
< 1275341311 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(let ((*bastard* ploop)) (foo))
< 1275341315 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo has *bastard* = ploop
< 1275341320 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it's-still-hard*
< 1275341409 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why just a music player?
< 1275341409 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A lot of people ask us about video. But video will not be included, nor will it be supported in XMMS2 - in fact video-support is even less possible than in XMMS1. This choice has numerous reasons. Music and video are very separate things, despite what many people like to think. The architecture of XMMS2 is designed such that it handles audio wonderfully well - handling video is simply not part of this project's scope and will not be added. And we believe tha
< 1275341410 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t we can make the best music player out there, but not the best video player, so we stick to what we are best at. There are other choices, if you wish to play video and audio via the same application.
< 1275341410 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But XMMS stands for X MultiMedia System, that includes video!
< 1275341412 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wrong. In "XMMS2", XMMS stands for X(cross)platform Music Multiplexing System.
< 1275341414 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Backronyms to the rescue
< 1275341416 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/./
< 1275341552 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :barackonyms
< 1275341629 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1275341649 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq!
< 1275341652 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to palindromes
< 1275341666 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell main = print $ (sum (map (fromEnum) beast) - 666)//length beast where beast="sarahpalin"; a//b = fromIntegral a/fromIntegral b
< 1275341673 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :39.3
< 1275341682 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XMMS2 is not working. What should I do?
< 1275341683 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should do it right, of course. Stop doing it wrong, and it'll start working.
< 1275341691 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275341700 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq!
< 1275341707 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I added some music and started playing, but I can't hear anything!
< 1275341707 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Did you try turning it off and on?" This checklist might help:
< 1275341707 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you deaf? In the future, try to remember this when using media players.
< 1275341721 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes!
< 1275341728 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is my appelation!
< 1275341731 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: is that an actual faq?
< 1275341739 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1275341740 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1275341742 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the xmms2 one
< 1275341745 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i'm eliding a lot of course)
< 1275341768 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Music is for the weak!
< 1275341800 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not when you pipe the output of flac -d to /dev/dsp
< 1275341803 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT MAKES IT SO DEEP AND SLOW
< 1275341945 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll write my OWN music daemon.
< 1275342014 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1275342046 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275342122 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This appears to not understand the concept of delivering packets.
< 1275342294 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1275342411 0 :uorygl!~Warrigal@rrcs-70-63-156-144.midsouth.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275342809 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275343168 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a
< 1275343189 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :b
< 1275343262 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: amend
< 1275343279 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what of it?
< 1275343357 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: just haven't said anything about it for N years :P
< 1275343360 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275343374 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1275343464 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :pikhq
< 1275343482 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well now you have. congratulations
< 1275343493 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: yay
< 1275343494 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reply to « Reply to "Reply to 'Reply to 'Continued Thoughts on Collections" »
< 1275343495 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's some title
< 1275343602 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh.
< 1275343611 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone heard of this C coding style: Linux, except a space before function arguments?
< 1275343753 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1275343780 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275343789 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK THIS SHIT
< 1275343797 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1275343828 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Is that legal?
< 1275343872 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Lessee: not child porn, not copyright violation, and not prostitution...
< 1275343875 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1275343887 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But I'm underage... wait, do you mean literal shit?
< 1275343895 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, new question: Is that... hygienic?
< 1275343912 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I never said anything about video-taping it.
< 1275343919 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which makes it not child porn.
< 1275343931 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also: not at all.
< 1275343939 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, I was assuming there was another sentient party, i.e. that "this shit" was metaphorical.
< 1275343974 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants a 300 baud Internet connection
< 1275343984 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd work better.
< 1275344013 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:13 -!- Irssi: Join to #esoteric was synced in 231 secs
< 1275344049 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I just lept inside the housekeeper
< 1275344057 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Hawt
< 1275344105 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Should I write my own music server? Would that be a PERFECTLY CROMULENT idea??
< 1275344162 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My effort to end up in a recycling plant has failed
< 1275344184 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Would you be able to load a png?
< 1275344198 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Was this directly linked to leaping inside the housekeeper
< 1275344202 0 :CakeProp1et!~adam@h140.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275344206 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No
< 1275344212 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: If so: BEHOLD: http://i.imgur.com/lXhC0.png
< 1275344215 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProp1et, also: http://i.imgur.com/lXhC0.png
< 1275344216 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BEHOLD
< 1275344217 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was related to me panicking about kidnapping the housekeeper
< 1275344223 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I tried to go to the housekeeper's home
< 1275344229 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And instead ended up inside her
< 1275344243 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Are you deliberately making these innuendi?
< 1275344251 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Yes, innuendi. Or is it innuendii?)
< 1275344276 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I'm not sure that the housekeeper is a her
< 1275344277 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275344288 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1275344318 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: I do hope you realise that I'm mercilessly quoting these out of context.
< 1275344321 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://i.imgur.com/lXhC0.png
< 1275344327 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gender: neuter
< 1275344336 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1275344342 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you fuck a neuter?
< 1275344379 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1275344397 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also inside the housekeeper: Someone's panties
< 1275344412 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1275344508 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, you have CLOTHES in lambdamoo?
< 1275344592 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so, but I haven't particularly paid attention
< 1275344627 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, there's an Arch Linux fork that uses OSSv4 and BFS by default.
< 1275344784 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...unfortunately, it appears to be maintained by a 17-year-old who has a long rambling blog post about how he's met the most perfect person in the world and nobody could be more perferecter and computing now seems so boring that he stopped working on the distro for a while.
< 1275344912 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275345031 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Linky?
< 1275345048 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you not see my last line? :)
< 1275345068 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://icadyptes.org/ anyway.
< 1275345134 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I collect titanic egos.
< 1275345141 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm the best at it EVER,
< 1275345161 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's more like titantic-someone-else's-ego.
< 1275345172 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://diyist.blogspot.com/2009/04/major-updates.html
< 1275345179 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note the authentic white-on-black background for a teenager.
< 1275345180 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i hear wolfram is better than titan
< 1275345184 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ium
< 1275345189 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"As per the title, I have been the lead Linux distribution developer for two distributions. I believe I used to be the world's youngest lead distribution developer at 14 while I was making Zenserver."
< 1275345191 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, faggot.
< 1275345199 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Indeed.
< 1275345208 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only reason I didn't consider a distro before trying to make that static one is because I realised it was fucking pointless :P
< 1275345232 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wolframs ego is about infinity logarthmic Wolframs.
< 1275345255 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two different typos.
< 1275345343 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Logarthmic.
< 1275345431 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sounds all right if you have a non-rhotic accent.
< 1275345519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some prototyping: C (using brickOS) or NQC (using official lego firmware)?
< 1275345548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't coded against brickOS before... I have a working toolchain however
< 1275345567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it was ages ago I last coded in nqc
< 1275345577 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C is probably better than Not Quite C.
< 1275345590 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For that is what it stands for.
< 1275345592 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm did you just google what nqc was? ;P
< 1275345609 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe
< 1275345643 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-243-205-116.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275345657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and well yeah, it uses a C like syntax. But it has the idiosyncrasies and of the bytecode interpreter of the official firmware. On the other hand it handles memory management for you
< 1275345692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it is probably faster to get something quick and dirty working in it
< 1275345726 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275345731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, oh and what to call the program. Maybe you can help.
< 1275345745 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does it do?
< 1275345758 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, do they /have/ enough memory to be managed?
< 1275345759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, Quick test program to figure out the mapping between the rotation sensor and the turntable angle
< 1275345762 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely you would just use static buffers.
< 1275345766 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That doesn't need a name!
< 1275345776 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :measure_mapping
< 1275345783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, rotation_mapping maybe?
< 1275345788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh the woes of naming!
< 1275345806 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I added some more ideas now in list of ideas
< 1275345810 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rotationMapping
< 1275345813 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rotation-mapping
< 1275345817 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rotty
< 1275345823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, _ > - > camelCase
< 1275345832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well for C
< 1275345838 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- > _ > camelCase
< 1275345842 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C doesn't apply, it can't do - :P
< 1275345846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for lisp it would obviously be - > _ > camelCase
< 1275345853 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- is certainly the nicest on the eyes for humans to read.
< 1275345858 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And gels best with English.
< 1275345865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and that is just a cultural thing
< 1275345874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- works in C filenames however
< 1275345874 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's an eyeballs thing :P
< 1275345882 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I definitely wouldn't write a configuration file format with underscores
< 1275345903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, as for memory management. iirc the official firmware just gives you a few (32? something like that) variable slots
< 1275345908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shudder*
< 1275345930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, anyway brickOS has dynamic linking. Uses coff file format.
< 1275345930 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, use C and just do ... foo[big]
< 1275345932 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the like
< 1275345938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and it has malloc
< 1275345960 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but don't use it
< 1275345968 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or floating point)
< 1275346003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well, dynamic linking I need to use, since it is that or link statically to firmware. And downloading a new firmware version takes about 3 minutes
< 1275346008 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have two new ideas:
< 1275346015 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Casino Viagra program language, where the programs are going to be caught by spam-filter program and/or by anti-virus program.
< 1275346020 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Ones with music (like Choon or Fugue), but using Bohlen-Pierce scales.
< 1275346027 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like this?
< 1275346033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, why not combine them
< 1275346058 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course you can combine any of these ideas, like the last list item said:  A combination of all of the above (and more).
< 1275346068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1275346070 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: don't use malloc though
< 1275346083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well probably a good idea.
< 1275346127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, on the other hand, I'm not sure how static buffers are allocated. As in, is space reserved or something silly like that
< 1275346156 0 :Oranjer1!~HP_Admini@adsl-243-205-116.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275346157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, iirc there is some special attribute or such now to force a variable to be stored between program runs
< 1275346164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :need to read up on the API docs really
< 1275346184 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course space should be reserved
< 1275346187 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is embedded programming
< 1275346205 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, who are lego robots targeted at? No average kid could do this.
< 1275346208 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1275346269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, in other news, my university had a "database crash", losing about 12 hours of data. And it took 2 days to get things working again.
< 1275346282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering the long time it took it sounds more like hardware dying
< 1275346295 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(database server perhaps?)
< 1275346296 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I name my sound daemon Belial??
< 1275346315 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what is wrong with jack?
< 1275346322 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, music daemon.
< 1275346324 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sound daemon.
< 1275346326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1275346330 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And jack sucks, OSSv4 directly ftw :P
< 1275346332 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275346364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, most "professional" sound apps support jack and only jack on linux
< 1275346371 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: fmod :P
< 1275346378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ?
< 1275346383 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway yeah but jack outputs to alsa or oss or whatever of course.
< 1275346387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps pure alsa as well
< 1275346389 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that ossv4 is already low-latency :P
< 1275346390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_maybe_
< 1275346397 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also ossv4 emulates alsa... but it's slower
< 1275346400 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fmod = http://www.fmod.org/
< 1275346421 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 'industry standard'.
< 1275346427 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1275346430 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I can't find any "about"
< 1275346442 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't need an about. because they're the industry standard
< 1275346444 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :commercial ofc.
< 1275346450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, oh for windows?
< 1275346452 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1275346455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, huh?
< 1275346455 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all platforms
< 1275346458 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(pretty much)
< 1275346463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, why .org ....
< 1275346466 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: all the games for linux, basically (which is more than you think), use it
< 1275346467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it is commercial
< 1275346469 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: who knows
< 1275346493 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FMOD Ex (including Designer)	First Platform	$ 6,000 USD
< 1275346493 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FMOD Ex (including Designer)	Subsequent Platforms	$ 3,000 USD
< 1275346497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, darwinia? That is like the only non-open source linux game I ever played
< 1275346506 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for "budget title":
< 1275346506 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FMOD Ex (including Designer)	First Platform	$ 3,000 USD
< 1275346507 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FMOD Ex (including Designer)	Subsequent Platforms	$ 1,500 USD
< 1275346510 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$$$$$
< 1275346516 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: probably, let me look it up.
< 1275346519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you posted same price twice
< 1275346523 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope
< 1275346524 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look again
< 1275346526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1275346530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah I see
< 1275346530 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latter one is for budget releases
< 1275346531 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1275346537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, but what do pro audio apps use?
< 1275346538 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the makers of darwinia made a nice game earlier, uplink
< 1275346544 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a "hacking" game but actually quite realistic
< 1275346549 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the shells acted like real linux to a point
< 1275346560 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you deleted the core system files on a server
< 1275346563 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd disappear and not come back
< 1275346564 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever
< 1275346565 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the rest of the game
< 1275346571 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :had to route around to make tracking slower, etc.
< 1275346572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1275346573 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was fun
< 1275346580 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :available for windows, os x, and linux, one purchase, one disc
< 1275346582 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :circa 2001
< 1275346588 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and one extra purchase got you a developer disk
< 1275346589 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with FULL SOURCE CODE
< 1275346594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow
< 1275346597 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you were allowed to modify it and release modifications
< 1275346602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they didn't do that for darwinia iirc?
< 1275346608 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno, don't think so
< 1275346612 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the company's cool
< 1275346622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1275346628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, to a degree
< 1275346642 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to a degree? :P
< 1275346645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, iirc they never released the latest patches for darwinia to linux
< 1275346646 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Introversion has a relatively small but growing following and its games are considered cult classics. Both Uplink and Darwinia have a strong modding community.
< 1275346664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, means there was some unresolved bugs
< 1275346668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot the details
< 1275346680 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough
< 1275346687 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they -- at least used to -- post on their own forums a lot and all
< 1275346688 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was quite nice
< 1275346700 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1275346709 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and another thing about uplink
< 1275346711 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you got caught
< 1275346714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, oh and some feature added in that last patch, never showed up on linux either iirc
< 1275346714 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the save deleted itself
< 1275346716 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no return
< 1275346726 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was very realistic for a hacking game, good fun
< 1275346729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, was it multiplayer?
< 1275346733 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275346742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, also cp save.bak save ;P
< 1275346748 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that was what everyone wanted after a while but no
< 1275346758 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*phew*
< 1275346758 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1275346759 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it did have an integrated irc client that went to the uplink channel though ingame :P
< 1275346764 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for no discernable reason
< 1275346774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, nice touch
< 1275346796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should try to find a discarded copy on the street or such
< 1275346822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, oh btw I'm going to weigh my lego turn table monster tomorrow, not that it is completely finished yet
< 1275346826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is quite heavy
< 1275346830 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1275346847 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another fun thing about uplink was it had the typical movie ultra-fast password breakers
< 1275346849 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with a twist
< 1275346857 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first one you got was really slow, meaning you got caught a lot quicker
< 1275346863 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you had to keep buying more expensive versions of the software :D
< 1275346877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and I'm running short on 3709b
< 1275346883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is rather serious
< 1275346886 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you can clearly see
< 1275346890 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1275346900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said I'm running short on 3709b!
< 1275346912 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1275346918 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1275346920 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway
< 1275346921 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :belial
< 1275346924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, 3709b is the official code for "Technic Plate 2 x 4 with Holes"
< 1275346925 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good name for a music daemon???
< 1275346936 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I suggest "bellow"
< 1275346948 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's boring it should be named after an actual daemon
< 1275346956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what?
< 1275346960 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :demon
< 1275346961 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know
< 1275346963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1275346967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is belial a demon?
< 1275346971 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes.
< 1275346979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, not true. It isn't in nethack ;P
< 1275346986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik
< 1275346996 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently in older scripts he was called Matanbuchus
< 1275347000 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is, you know, significantly less catchy
< 1275347049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, one of these: http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Demon#Unique_demons_and_summoning
< 1275347078 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it has to be short because i'll be prefixing all my symbols with it :P
< 1275347095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, Orcus
< 1275347096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :short
< 1275347111 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but just makes me think of orcs
< 1275347116 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :orcs are not terribly demonic
< 1275347120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not related afaik
< 1275347132 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tengu is the only half-acceptable name there imo
< 1275347135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, Juiblex, quite short
< 1275347157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, bah, a minor demon
< 1275347189 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, a music server isn't exactly keepthefuckingsystemrunningd.
< 1275347191 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's relatively minor.
< 1275347243 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1275347252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I killed more tengu (what is the plural?) in nethack than I can count by squaring my total finger and toe count.
< 1275347261 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[The incubus and succubus are male and female versions of the
< 1275347261 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same demon, one who lies with a human for its own purposes,
< 1275347261 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually to the detriment of the mortals who are unwise in
< 1275347261 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :their dealings with them.]]
< 1275347262 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suuuuuuuuuure
< 1275347273 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(okay, odd comparison but meh)
< 1275347297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, suure about me killing more than 400 tengu during my time playing nethack?
< 1275347298 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1275347306 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are relatively easy for a high level char
< 1275347310 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1275347320 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suuuure about the nethack encyclopedia entry for incu/succubus
< 1275347343 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would have thought that obvious
< 1275347347 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yeah
< 1275347380 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's that thing that makes everything change symbol (I don't play nethack)
< 1275347383 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's lsd or something
< 1275347388 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i think you get hit
< 1275347400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1275347403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yellow light?
< 1275347407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :amongst other things
< 1275347423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, there are many things that can cause hallucination if that is what you mean
< 1275347445 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1275347447 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was some enemy
< 1275347448 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :early in the game
< 1275347453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1275347457 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got hit or something, everything changed symbol and colour every turn
< 1275347459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eating bad stuff could cause it
< 1275347460 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :had to sit around for N turns to let it subside
< 1275347461 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes
< 1275347464 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a bad corpse
< 1275347477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yellow light isn't really early in the game indeed
< 1275347514 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem with nethack is that when i move about quickly, it feels like a realtime game
< 1275347520 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :monsters move at a normal speed, so do i, i can attack them, etc.
< 1275347522 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*so*
< 1275347528 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my brain can't interpret it as a go-slowly-and-think-every-turn game
< 1275347540 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it just seems like a ludicrously slow version of the "realtime" one
< 1275347550 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i do stupid things and die
< 1275347564 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*my problem, not the problem
< 1275347565 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a realtime nethack?
< 1275347603 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1275347604 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1275347610 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you hold down the moving keys it feels like a realtime game
< 1275347616 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(implicit AnMaster:) does -Wextra imply -Wall?
< 1275347623 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So don't hold down the moving keys?
< 1275347627 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not, imagining using just -Wextra :D
< 1275347632 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: but it's a cognitive defect of mine!
< 1275347642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> (implicit AnMaster:) does -Wextra imply -Wall? <-- this is in WHICH context?
< 1275347648 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc
< 1275347657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and why suddenly there
< 1275347672 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think AnMaster thought alise was implying that it's a question that AnMaster would ask
< 1275347678 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, yep?
< 1275347684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looked like it
< 1275347685 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1275347688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1275347692 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just that AnMaster is obviously the person who would know this
< 1275347698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I don't think so. But I'm not sure
< 1275347702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recommend checking man page
< 1275347707 0 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275347742 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, feel insulted that you just asked a question that AnMaster thought was AnMaster worthy
< 1275347754 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, indeed, -Wextra =/> -Wall
< 1275347761 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: xD
< 1275347763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> so i do stupid things and die â† holding down arrow keys in nethack would count as stupid thing :P
< 1275347781 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: b-but if any monsters appear I can just fight them off!
< 1275347791 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: anyway, I suggest compiling something with -Wextra -pedantic but not -Wall :D
< 1275347794 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd /just/ nitpick
< 1275347798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yeah right, the fast elf running up from behind...
< 1275347799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure
< 1275347801 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, there are special movement ... things to let you go all the way down a corridor
< 1275347812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you aren't the fastest thing in the game remember
< 1275347816 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: that sounds ridiculously risky
< 1275347818 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: SHUT UP :<
< 1275347820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure at low levels...
< 1275347822 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it's less risky
< 1275347833 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, they stop you if something happens, iirc
< 1275347833 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i never got far enough to see an elf anyway :D
< 1275347849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ah also air elements
< 1275347860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are not always hostile
< 1275347863 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, um, /me has come across a situation that simultaneously demands a database and demands not a database
< 1275347870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are on the plane of air however
< 1275347885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, details
< 1275347887 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: underflow
< 1275347888 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sqlite
< 1275347913 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A music library manager daemon obviously has to keep the files on disk. This is a Good Thing.
< 1275347920 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :These files on disk contain tags (well, they should do, anyway).
< 1275347921 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But!
< 1275347932 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275347934 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to support very advanced (SQL-style) queries on tags and stuff, and also saved collections of things-that-satisfy-a-certain-thing.
< 1275347935 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However.
< 1275347951 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to put it in a database, because the primary id keys would be unnatural. I can't use the filepath as a primary key because that's not considered good database practice.
< 1275347956 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, I'd like it to be in sync with the filesystem.
< 1275347963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION begins firmware download
< 1275347965 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, I need an extensively-queriable cache of tags.
< 1275347967 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What to do?
< 1275347981 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait a sec
< 1275347991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot to connect usb IR tower
< 1275347992 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1275347998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that explains the error
< 1275348023 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1275348048 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1275348108 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: any suggestions?
< 1275348128 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm
< 1275348129 0 :uorygl!~Warrigal@rrcs-70-63-156-144.midsouth.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275348137 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I can wear the Generic Wearable Object
< 1275348141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm?
< 1275348145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reads up
< 1275348167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, database and BCNF!
< 1275348180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :answer to everything according to some
< 1275348192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I disagree
< 1275348207 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, suggest something you agree with :P
< 1275348221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's no fun
< 1275348243 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::<
< 1275348264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wth is a battery current of 17.0F?
< 1275348301 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ANSAR MAH Q
< 1275348316 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well, I don't know. Why not make a module
< 1275348372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can easily switch between flatfile, sqlite, postgres, oracle, ms sql server, DB2, firebird and ms access?
< 1275348377 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_<
< 1275348382 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT THE WHOLE PROGRAM IS THAT A DATABASE ISN'T SUITABLE :P
< 1275348387 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*PROBLEM
< 1275348403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that's the flatfile option
< 1275348423 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, because the whole problem is that i need efficient, flexible querying while not having an authoritative database!
< 1275348432 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want the querying parts of sql in some sort of filesystem music-file-tags cache
< 1275348447 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*filesystem-music-
< 1275348457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, okay, just put it in an open office spreadsheet and implement a fake X server to query this by emulating user input
< 1275348465 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate you
< 1275348473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, sorry, couldn't resist it
< 1275348484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, also this _is_ #esoteric
< 1275348511 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I thought of a really awesome thing you get when you do a daemon design.
< 1275348517 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True unix philosophy!
< 1275348524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, okay so don't do db, implement your own music-file-tags cache and your own SQL parser
< 1275348534 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :last.fm is a service where your music player "scrobbles" all the tracks you listen to. These form a profilethingy, but most importantly:
< 1275348549 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You get recommendations for music and stuff based on these scrobblings, and if you pay $$$ you can even listen to an internet radio based on them.
< 1275348556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1275348558 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, in a normal player, this would be part of the functionality or a plugin.
< 1275348566 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed
< 1275348571 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With a music daemon? It's just another client that connects, listens to track-change messages, and sends them off to last.fm.
< 1275348577 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Completely separate from your actual player interface.
< 1275348584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice
< 1275348585 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One tool, one job.
< 1275348609 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Now, ridiculous idea time.
< 1275348619 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Clearly, communication with the daemon should be done via RESTful HTTP.
< 1275348620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what? You are going to implement the X thingy?
< 1275348624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1275348630 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :POST /tracks/348/play
< 1275348630 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1275348631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I prefer sleeping HTTP
< 1275348636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is even more restful
< 1275348637 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I was joking.
< 1275348640 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: har har
< 1275348644 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It'd be way too slow, anyway.
< 1275348650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1275348654 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I click "next track" I expect to hear the audio coming out in, like, 0.5 seconds at the very most.
< 1275348660 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Sounds like you want to do mpd only better.
< 1275348663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, okay what about exercising HTTP
< 1275348667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should be pretty fast
< 1275348669 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: No, I want to do xmms2 only better.
< 1275348677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or exerciseful maybe
< 1275348679 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: xmms2, though it was started without knowledge of mpd, is trying to do mpd only better.
< 1275348680 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Awesome.
< 1275348681 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(So is mpd2.)
< 1275348689 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1275348714 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xmms2 is sucky in some ways though. Their configuration file is XML.
< 1275348726 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously, there is no hierarchy in a music daemon's configuration. It's just (key,value) pairs!
< 1275348728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you should use S-Expressions
< 1275348741 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Maybe I will. OR, maybe I'll use something easy to parse quickly.
< 1275348746 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because you don't need to... nest... at all.
< 1275348752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, S-Expressions are easy to parse
< 1275348754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in lisp)
< 1275348759 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say, "command\1arg\1arg\1arg\n"?
< 1275348759 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1275348767 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, *\r\n; internet protocol.
< 1275348778 0 :uorygl!~Warrigal@rrcs-70-63-156-144.midsouth.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275348783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, argh this looks like the monster that is virtualbox configs. Which is both xml and paths iirc
< 1275348794 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone else find it funny that it's the *Internet* that requires the use of the deprecated typewriter return character?
< 1275348810 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: oh you mean s-expressions for the config file
< 1275348813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it doesn't. It is IRC that does
< 1275348814 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you meant for server communication
< 1275348821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I meant for config yes
< 1275348822 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which probably will be command{\1arg}\n)
< 1275348848 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Config will be {key /\s*:\s*/ value "\n"}.
< 1275348850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, but obviously the more S-Expressions the better
< 1275348853 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., "foo: bar"
< 1275348858 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :music-root: ~/music
< 1275348861 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remote-username: foo
< 1275348863 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remote-password: bar
< 1275348865 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And so on.
< 1275348883 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, */\n+/ in that syntax :P
< 1275348890 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and "# ..." comments.
< 1275348960 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO YEAH PRETTY MUCH MY MUSIC DAEMON WILL BE AWESOME.
< 1275348970 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's an API to watch for changes in a directory and any of its children, right?
< 1275348985 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll probably set that up on the music-root so that any added music files are added to the library, and any deleted ones are removed.
< 1275349004 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: All protocols with RFCs that use text require the old typewriter return character.
< 1275349036 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what pikhq_ said
< 1275349042 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's internet standard
< 1275349047 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although accepting just \n is good practice too
< 1275349053 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :liberal/conservative etc
< 1275349068 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another Internet standard!
< 1275349102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, ouch
< 1275349120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many bytes does this waste?
< 1275349125 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one per line
< 1275349129 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1275349129 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in an already-textual protocol :)
< 1275349131 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 per newline.
< 1275349133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I meant over all
< 1275349137 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fewer if compressed.
< 1275349139 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on the transmission size.
< 1275349142 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd have said tab-separated arguments...
< 1275349149 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But who knows what arguments I'll accept?
< 1275349152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many percent of the transatlantic internet capacity then?
< 1275349153 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Integers, strings, definitely.
< 1275349160 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Dunno; I'm not omnipotent.
< 1275349178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be interesting to know
< 1275349197 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it would. Unfortunately, nearly impossible to observe.
< 1275349203 0 :uorygl!~Warrigal@rrcs-70-63-156-144.midsouth.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275349206 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say, how do you pronounce "Belial"?
< 1275349210 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely pikhq_ will know. SINCE HE'S CHRISTIAN AND ALL
< 1275349222 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I know not.
< 1275349229 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAD CHRISTIAN
< 1275349230 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAAAAAAAAAAAAD
< 1275349234 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU WILL SUFFER AND BURN IN HELL
< 1275349239 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'll be there to comfort you though)
< 1275349253 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'LL MAKE SURE YOU GET IT WORSE
< 1275349257 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how reassuring.
< 1275349261 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, sample 2 seconds of data at some central router (this will give you several GB to analyse). Look for CRLF with a context of printable ASCII around it
< 1275349266 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: But that's religious discrimination!
< 1275349272 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...then again, so is Hell.
< 1275349274 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure it misses UTF-16 and it might give some false positives too
< 1275349281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it should give an interesting number anyway
< 1275349297 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Does *anyone* transmit UTF-16 over the Internet?
< 1275349326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, wait, you are christian?
< 1275349327 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have filenames with +, Unicode, spaces and two dots on my hard drive
< 1275349331 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people must hate me <3
< 1275349342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ?
< 1275349344 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Awesome
< 1275349355 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: <##>. <title>.flac
< 1275349367 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :combined with song title with a "+" in it and also foreign-language text
< 1275349371 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := prophet
< 1275349378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1275349379 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's "Belial"?
< 1275349385 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: a very bad man.
< 1275349388 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(demon)
< 1275349494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, are demons men?
< 1275349498 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who knows?
< 1275349516 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They probably need a penis to PUNISH THE UNBELIEVERS.
< 1275349517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well you seemed to imply that
< 1275349519 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaanyway
< 1275349526 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what's a good sound output library?
< 1275349530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no I meant "men" as in "mankind"
< 1275349531 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Xine sucks, GStreamer is pretty sucky
< 1275349540 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1275349542 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well... no.
< 1275349543 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1275349548 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not as far as I know :P
< 1275349563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, wasn't it said that "hell is other people"?
< 1275349569 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sartre.
< 1275349581 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, GStreamer's core is 60 thousand lines of code. They call this "lightweight".
< 1275349582 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, didn't remember who
< 1275349597 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck, and I'm aiming for Belial to be... maybe 5,000 lines if it gets well-featured?
< 1275349598 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1275349605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, good sound output library: openal
< 1275349614 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, there is someone right next to me who hasn't logged in for 14 years
< 1275349616 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenAL is more targeted to things that actually generate sounds. 3D sound and stuff.
< 1275349620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, true
< 1275349620 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus it goes through like 50 other layers.
< 1275349633 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd prefer something more like "decodes => sends to output device (ALSA, OSS or PulseAudio, say)".
< 1275349633 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well that is a downside
< 1275349643 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: And has just logged in now?
< 1275349646 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or has not logged in?
< 1275349648 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no
< 1275349650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, my openal sends it to alsa iirc
< 1275349655 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...your character stays there when you log out?
< 1275349656 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even guests?
< 1275349664 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well, they are moved to their home
< 1275349665 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and ~/.openalrc uses S-Expressions unless I misremember
< 1275349670 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275349670 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they have no home, they're moved to Limbo
< 1275349684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, which increase awesomeness a lot
< 1275349707 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It occurs to me that nobody programs in C any more.
< 1275349718 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They program in Modern C, which has several oddities such as:
< 1275349718 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure what the guest situation is, but I'm pretty sure they need to still exist somewhere
< 1275349740 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Header files must begin with "#ifndef FOO\n#define FOO\n" and end with "#endif".
< 1275349750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, which virtual world is this?
< 1275349755 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, LambdaMOO
< 1275349766 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if too many guests log in at a time? :P
< 1275349768 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, Yellow_Guest is currently residing in Limbo
< 1275349774 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Steal all the dormant person's clothes!
< 1275349778 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mwahahahahaha
< 1275349783 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, then I think that no more guests can come on
< 1275349786 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<alise> Header files must begin with "#ifndef FOO\n#define FOO\n" and end with "#endif". <-- not as such. Public ones yes
< 1275349790 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are 32 guests
< 1275349791 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's a joke
< 1275349805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, there is the "multiple internal include with different defines"
< 1275349849 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, a_b_c_d should be read as a::b::c::d, unless it's a::b::c-d. or any other combination :D
< 1275349876 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, it occurs to me that the "f (x, y, z)" style is actually a good idea these days: since the function names are so long, they no longer feel tightly attached to their arguments.
< 1275349903 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mylib_set_munge_param ("foo", 2);
< 1275349912 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the name of the function dwarfs the space anyway
< 1275349916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I tend to use short function names. Like fspace_set() rather than fungespace_write_value_to_cell
< 1275349917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P
< 1275349934 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mm, but for things that expect to be used in other stuff you at least need namespace_.
< 1275349946 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ah, cf_
< 1275349961 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I was considering "Belphegor" with bg_ prefix.
< 1275349972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense
< 1275349976 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neither of the people here with me have anything
< 1275349980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I hope that thing won't use more than one bg_
< 1275349982 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe they were robbed blind years ago
< 1275349998 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, this is the thing: "bg_" is probably not so uncommon.
< 1275350037 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's only 676 two-character prefixes you can use there.
< 1275350041 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, well, birthday paradox...
< 1275350049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so bg_6bd133e4_4df5_4c08_a2d7_d15252f8024f
< 1275350060 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just belial_.
< 1275350060 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very likely unique
< 1275350062 0 :uorygl!~Warrigal@rrcs-70-63-156-144.midsouth.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1275350065 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ > C?
< 1275350066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, used uuidge
< 1275350070 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: No.
< 1275350071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uuidgen*
< 1275350074 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: No way.
< 1275350079 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: No way times a billion.
< 1275350080 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You suck.
< 1275350087 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :</trolling>
< 1275350095 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should kill yourself now.
< 1275350097 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Create a systems programming language with proper namespace handling.
< 1275350103 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@recycle me
< 1275350105 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I should call it "Go"
< 1275350117 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@recycle me
< 1275350118 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you really want to commit MOO suicide, please follow the instructions in `help suicide'.
< 1275350123 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And be sure to modify the linker so that it actually *works*
< 1275350129 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Go uses the C linker still.
< 1275350151 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Nope.
< 1275350154 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: It uses the Plan 9 linker.
< 1275350182 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: ha, what does it tell you to do
< 1275350211 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Isn't that still a C linker?
< 1275350230 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Well, /technically/... except for that it's totally different.
< 1275350231 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/986506
< 1275350237 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(granted, written by someone with a clue, but still)
< 1275350260 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: So, it actually handles things like namespacing and typed symbols correctly?
< 1275350260 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More than one clue!
< 1275350263 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesome.
< 1275350269 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc, the plan 9 linker has namespaces.
< 1275350276 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it uses \cdot or something as the character for them xD
< 1275350277 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, awesome.
< 1275350281 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am /not sure/ though.
< 1275350286 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please don't get too excited.
< 1275350289 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. Plan 9 was written by someone with nearly *all* the clues. :P
< 1275350298 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AM HOG THE CLUES
< 1275350327 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Some of the clueosity in the linkers:
< 1275350328 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In practice, –l options are rarely necessary as the header files for the libraries cause their archives to be included automatically in the load (see 2c(1)). For example, any program that includes header file libc.h causes the loader to search the C library /$objtype/lib/libc.a. Also, the loader creates an undefined symbol _main (or _mainp if profiling is enabled) to force loading of the startup linkage from the C library.
< 1275350333 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's something like
< 1275350336 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#pragma lib "libc.a"
< 1275350339 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, I almost walked off the edge of the world by accident
< 1275350342 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in libc.h file
< 1275350342 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1275350343 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Oh right*.
< 1275350347 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's actually literally /$objtype/lib/libc.a
< 1275350348 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love that pragma.
< 1275350350 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night