< 1274659275 0 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1274659278 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://3537.pl/programista.html < 1274659280 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funny < 1274659677 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1274659689 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a job offer < 1274659767 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to read a sequence of memory states and output the shortest boolfuck program that transforms memory from one state to another < 1274660841 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SG-1 > Thing due in a week < 1274660852 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That I would have had a month to work on if my computer was working < 1274661008 0 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274661041 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alise, ping me before you leave < 1274662370 0 :Portponky!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: chicken is nature's potato < 1274663425 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I think not having a commercial break here would make the episode worse. < 1274663582 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worse is better? < 1274663632 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just out of curiosity, any ideas? < 1274663669 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a pyramid made out of giant fries < 1274663703 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(going with the potato theme here) < 1274663737 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds yummy < 1274663756 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the boolfuck delta between two memory states sounds more interesting < 1274663780 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If less delicious. < 1274664356 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1274664501 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, this problem sounds interesting < 1274664782 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't the general problem of taking two memory states and outputting shortest program to transform them from first to second RE-hard? < 1274664966 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well starting from an empty state gives you kolmogorov complexity, which is undecidable < 1274664998 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1274665015 0 :uorygl!~Warrigal@rrcs-70-63-156-144.midsouth.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1274665018 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1274665316 0 :uorygl!~Warrigal@rrcs-70-63-156-144.midsouth.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1274665317 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not two memory states to be exact < 1274665363 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://3537.pl/programista.html check out the 'przykÅ‚ad' section, there is a sample input and output < 1274665491 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um boolfuck has no I/O, so i would assume the input is the initial memory state, and the output is the final one, with some simple encoding. < 1274665517 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1274665524 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's enough to make it undecidable in general (in fact the input is unnecessary) < 1274665546 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/memory/tape/g < 1274665553 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get a sequence of memory states < 1274665561 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1274665561 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Halting problem. < 1274665581 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you have to find a program that produces them during it's execution < 1274665608 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like for < 1274665626 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :000,100,110,111 the program is +> < 1274665632 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/nooga> yes/nooga> no/ < 1274665652 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1274665665 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you'd only the firs and the last state < 1274665669 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :take* < 1274665695 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought bf.in and bf.out were I/O for the boolfuck program, sheesh < 1274665780 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, your task is to generate boolfuck program for given input < 1274665789 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. it's still undecidable in principle since it's undecidable between any pair of consecutive states. < 1274665809 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but obviously if the programs are very short, you can solve it < 1274665815 0 :alise!~alise@91.105.70.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1274665836 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yo < 1274665853 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://3537.pl/programista.html < 1274665857 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eset -- they make NOD32, yeah? < 1274665874 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and their job offer involves boolfuck? < 1274665878 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like a pretty good place to work < 1274665917 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm wait < 1274665942 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: the tape length is fixed in advance? then it's solvable. < 1274666019 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since then so is the halting problem < 1274666086 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: i say go for the job :P < 1274666091 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1274666094 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming there's nothing non-obvious written in that polish < 1274666508 0 :Zuu!zuu@0x55529f1b.adsl.cybercity.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1274666509 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1274666509 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1274666691 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"--and also, whomsoever solves this problem hereby enlists their soul towards our demonic army of gnomes, who do verily check every file. You thought that was a program? Ha ha ha ha ha ha..." < 1274667547 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1274668586 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey guys I proved P=NP < 1274668629 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ i = 0; for (sol in possible_solutions) { if correct(sol) return sol; if (i > 10^(10^100)) halt; } } < 1274668637 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: algorithm is unusable) < 1274668645 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: algorithm does always terminate because the universe will be dead by then) < 1274668736 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i spot a bug < 1274668899 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1274668906 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1274668908 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--but nobody will ever know it, ha ha ha < 1274668912 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no! he's back! < 1274668914 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eliminate him! < 1274668929 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange network error just as i was typing my comment :( < 1274668939 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the bug then smarty :P < 1274668953 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i is never incremented < 1274668964 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um that's a feature of the language < 1274668969 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ i = 0; for (sol in possible_solutions) { if correct(sol) return sol; if (i > 10^(10^100)) halt; i++ } } < 1274668973 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :amended version for those who don't understand. < 1274668977 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1274668981 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU DON'T SAY < 1274668994 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as i was saying but got cut off < 1274668996 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: < 1274669008 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1274669009 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's an algorithm guaranteed to work _if_ P=NP < 1274669027 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's it called? < 1274669028 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just iterate through all possible P algorithms < 1274669032 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1274669039 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know any name < 1274669044 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and besides, P=NP is practically worthless -- people who think it isn't are stupid :) < 1274669055 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since you can always have an O(n) algorithm with a really fucking huge constant. < 1274669059 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Is the set of possible P algorithms finite? < 1274669073 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and dynamic programming + heuristics make NP problems okay in practice < 1274669077 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: No, does that matter? < 1274669081 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, doesn't matter. < 1274669086 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The naturals are infinite, but looping through them until you find a certain one will always halt. < 1274669089 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: no, but... oh wait < 1274669098 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You *will* eventually find something, yes. < 1274669104 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As the set is most certainly countable. < 1274669131 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm maybe i remember it wrong, it seems to have an issue if the answer is "no" < 1274669141 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw I hypothesised about a halting-checker; < 1274669147 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do things such as: < 1274669152 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even O(n^6) algo gets inpractical fast (just look at state-of-the-art AKS-based primality tests). < 1274669164 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :check statements of the form "forall x in naturals, P(x)" and "exists x in naturals s.t. P(x)" < 1274669174 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1274669178 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also evaluate all convergent infinite sums (without analytic/symbolic methods) < 1274669183 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you cannot do the same for the reals < 1274669190 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are (countably) inifinite number of problems in P. < 1274669194 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried recursively nesting halt-checker calls, but you can't do it < 1274669198 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as i know < 1274669249 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Peter Shor points out that if we’re living in a simulation, then the incompatibility of quantum mechanics with general relativity might simply be a bug, in which case the universe will crash when the first black hole evaporates." < 1274669252 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE < 1274669284 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah the black holes are page faults < 1274669364 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or then, GR is wrong (at least when describing such extreme things as black holes...) < 1274669390 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: well he said "might" < 1274669406 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe string theory exposes the internal object representation of particles :-) < 1274669410 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Seems to me that page faults being noticable is a bug. < 1274669437 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't say < 1274669458 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Even O(1) can absolutely suck if that constant factor is long. < 1274669551 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, alise is still here < 1274669625 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. i'm being hideously irresponsible < 1274669644 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just impressed you slept last night. < 1274669811 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Me too actually. < 1274669868 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://nautilus.cs.miyazaki-u.ac.jp/~skata/MagicHaskeller.html < 1274669873 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- The following will find the recursive form definition of the fibonacci function from its closed-form solution. < 1274669873 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :init075 -- The problem is tough, so you should be prepared to resort whatever measure you can take! < 1274669873 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :printAny (¥f -> all (¥n -> (f :: Int->Int) n == let phi = (1 + sqrt 5)/2 in round ((phi^n - (1-phi)^n) / sqrt 5) ) [0..9]) < 1274669875 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nuff said. < 1274669889 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note of course that the Japanese yen sign is, in all the Windows fuckup glory, being used as a backslash.) < 1274669893 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Just like in file paths.) < 1274669930 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be perfectly fair to Windows, that's actually a fuckup from the JIS that old version of Windows merely complied with. < 1274669937 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Versions, even. < 1274669993 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, pikhq, this thing generates the recursive haskell fibonacci from Binet's formula. < 1274670004 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly it isn't looking at Binet's formula -- pre-computed instead -- but still! < 1274670017 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Spiffy. < 1274670024 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JIS? < 1274670048 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Japanese Industrial Standard. < 1274670116 0 :Gregor-L!~Gregor@75-151-73-57-Spokane.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274670238 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Japanese Industrial Shitpile < 1274670282 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The JIS standards are a shitpile. < 1274670427 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My point exactly. < 1274670974 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm bored, and I'm going to bed soon. But I'm still bored. < 1274671035 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1274671048 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1274671065 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ wargames < 1274671065 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would you like to play a game? [anything] < 1274671065 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A strange game. < 1274671065 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only winning move is < 1274671065 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not to play. < 1274671067 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pfft. < 1274671075 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It needs to include a full simulation of Global Thermonuclear War and Tic-Tac-Toe. < 1274671117 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thermonuclear tic-tac-toe? < 1274671121 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or that < 1274671140 0 :ws!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ... < 1274671227 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. < 1274671236 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've discovered a brilliant hangman strategy. < 1274671245 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just start "etaoinshrdlu". < 1274671254 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: i see great potential there < 1274671274 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1274671284 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Twenty masked gunmen in Gaza attack and burn to the ground a summer camp for children run by UNRWA for "teaching schoolgirls fitness, dancing, and immorality."]] < 1274671368 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1274671519 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1274671522 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought it said "immortality" < 1274671528 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1274671585 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1274671613 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Gregor < 1274671614 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If only they could teach immortality. < 1274671629 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hellote again sir. < 1274671698 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought it was some awesome religious crazies < 1274671707 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEY TEACH IMMORTALITY!!! THIS IS UNHOLY!! < 1274671725 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird@ehird-desktop:/usr/games$ ./arithmetic < 1274671725 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9 - 2 = 7 < 1274671726 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right! < 1274671726 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6 + 8 = Wow, fuck this. < 1274671726 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please type a number. < 1274671733 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some BSD games really suck. < 1274671775 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah. < 1274671782 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a better game would be /usr/games/ImpossibleMathProblems < 1274671797 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ phd < 1274671806 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do all of the zeroes of the Riemann zeta function lie on the critical line? < 1274671806 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/games/Level5ProblemsFromTheArtOfComputerProgramming < 1274671820 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can the problems in NP be solved by a P algorithm? < 1274671820 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :problem one: prove that for all n > 2 and all x, y, z in N, x^n + y^n != z^n < 1274671829 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do all Collatz sequences eventually reach 1? < 1274671835 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: That's no longer level 5. < 1274671839 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: that's already been proven. < 1274671842 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4.5, IIRC. < 1274671850 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but its still pretty hard :P < 1274671857 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok scratch that < 1274671858 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but it's not level 5! < 1274671865 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :construct an ELEGANt proof of that. < 1274671871 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are the level 5 problems then? < 1274671874 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Wiles' proof is elegant. < 1274671890 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Problems with unknown solutions, IIRC. < 1274671896 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im not sure that mathematicians agree. < 1274671919 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More elegant than everything else we've got. < 1274671931 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except for that one the margin is too small to contain. < 1274671964 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: I'm relatively sure you're wrong. < 1274671978 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Such-and-such's proof of X is ugly because it's complicated" is basically what laymen think. < 1274671983 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :his proof certainly isnt marginalia, thats for sure < 1274671992 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes - that's because Fermat was full of shit. < 1274672013 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem is Hard. The countless numbers of false solutions and the fact that only advanced mathematics solved it show with extremely high probability that Fermat was simply wrong about having a proof. < 1274672066 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was length of the proof? 350 pages or so? That can't be elegant. < 1274672077 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pity he didn't have a larger margin. < 1274672084 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Wiles paper is over 100 pages long and often uses the peculiar symbols and notations of group theory, algebraic geometry, commutative algebra, and Galois theory. < 1274672086 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Over 100 pages isn't too bad. < 1274672097 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember that it turns out that Fermat's Last Theorem is pretty damn advanced stuff! < 1274672107 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not everything can have a trivial proof. That doesn't mean the complicated proofs aren't elegant. < 1274672181 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://math.stanford.edu/~lekheng/flt/wiles.pdf ;; the proof as it was published in Annals of Mathematics < 1274672187 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reminds of excercise problem of proving that every undirected graph can be converted to directed graph such that on every vertex, indegree and outdegree only differ by at most 1... < 1274672193 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://users.tpg.com.au/nanahcub/flt.pdf ;; one with searchable text (much smaller; hundreds of kilobytes instead of 10mb) < 1274672255 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, I don't understand it; I doubt many people do. < 1274672256 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's at least elegant way of proving that and unelegant way. < 1274672261 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't look at it and see an ugly thing. < 1274672269 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see a very complicated, complex thing, but not a gnarly thing. < 1274672355 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, that article isn't even a proof of FLT. < 1274672377 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a proof of an entirely different theorem; FLT just so happens to follow from it and countless other lemmas posed before. < 1274672383 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elegant proofs tend to take huge leaps that are simple, yet unobivious. < 1274672394 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The actual proof of FLT would just be... "Q.E.D." < 1274672470 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like leaping from that direction problem to eulerian circuits. < 1274672487 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.x11r5.com/ < 1274672522 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION recently read a semishitty science fiction book about FLT
< 1274672541 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what on earth is x11r5.com :) < 1274672547 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a markov bot < 1274672558 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why's it have that name? < 1274672568 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: you're more coherent than x11r5. < 1274672568 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: is the language/ library dichotomy, i know; it's an occupational hazard for all of them < 1274672574 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1274672574 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc* jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube < 1274672578 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Wax eloquent. < 1274672579 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: my network outage took a lot of native ppc code compilers for scheme or any other swear wordswear. what more could one ask for? i'm trying to < 1274672585 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it uses the X11 server to .. do something < 1274672590 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: X11. < 1274672591 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: which would mean no integer arrays larger than 64k bytes, or truncate the key? evil grin which would have told me, what?" < 1274672595 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not creative enough to come up with a good joke < 1274672637 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It runs some code in an xterm, takes a screenshot, and uploads it < 1274672669 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style agora < 1274672669 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: agora (a large selection of Agora rules, both current and historical) < 1274672679 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: prove Fermat's Last Theorem < 1274672679 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: ( i) satisfy the draw within a time limit, e ceases to hold the delegated player; < 1274672728 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: ahh but what if fermat's proof was real :o < 1274672759 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style nethack < 1274672759 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: nethack (NetHack 3.4.3 data.base, rumors.tru, rumors.fal) < 1274672766 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: it isn't < 1274672766 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: prove Fermat's Last Theorem < 1274672766 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: if you try to zap it!" but the sword. < 1274672774 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style darwin < 1274672774 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: darwin (Books by Charles Darwin -- you know, that evilution guy) < 1274672780 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: prove Fermat's Last Theorem < 1274672780 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: i bet darwin could prove FLT with smilies < 1274672781 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: oh pshaw you dont know < 1274672781 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: my chief object is to see a flora written by a man who intends keeping pointers naturally tries to get/ subject as clear as daylight. old flourens " ( examen du livre de m. darwin une critique dont je fnord trouve que des debris dans un journal fnord.,/ outer edge :)/ reef. < 1274672782 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: origin :) species,' and arranged for/ publication :) one volume for 1867-8.) i particularly admired tyndall's little speech " professor tyndall was president :)/ royal society, with notes on. < 1274672793 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On / Origin :) Species < 1274672796 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he speaks french! < 1274672814 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, fnord? < 1274672824 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :words deemed too rare to place in the file < 1274672825 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what exactly is the source of that :p < 1274672827 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) and / are encoding errors < 1274672837 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style alice < 1274672838 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: alice (Books by Lewis Carroll) < 1274672840 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Oh, my! < 1274672840 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: ' i'm not a bird!' and the waiters set a leg of mutton, and began fnord them into colours. < 1274672843 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style youtube < 1274672843 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: youtube (Some YouTube comments) < 1274672848 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I am leaving. You are about to explode. < 1274672856 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: I would not have thought of using YouTube comments. < 1274672857 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: 15 seconds. what the hell < 1274672867 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: WHAT < 1274672867 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: why internet is like wtf < 1274672869 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: took you less than that to respond, eh? < 1274672869 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: whatever, i've told you where: they do their homework. seriously folks, do your own) so it wont have the same < 1274672871 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1274672875 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote alise: why internet is like wtf < 1274672875 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: avril roxs your soxs video < 1274672875 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: :( < 1274672875 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: well, and the aircraft had no passengers... that guy is fantastic. there were probably 3 people died < 1274672886 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the best source. < 1274672888 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :163| alise: why internet is like wtf < 1274672898 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: it's quite a bit verbatim iirc < 1274672909 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: the aircraft? where? < 1274672909 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: you obviously can't be bothered to read the description! it's kinda scary at first but it was landing at a low approach of a bitch. < 1274672911 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka assembled it by manually copying/pasting youtube comments (he isn't a good enough programmer to write a scraper) < 1274673139 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... did anyone mention how scarily close this game is to a Turing machine: http://jayisgames.com/games/manufactoria/ < 1274673156 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a turing machine, or at least TC. < 1274673157 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has unbounded memory < 1274673161 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*memory. < 1274673201 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but it's a queue instead of a tape < 1274673217 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not long til I have to be up in 5 hours. < 1274673246 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sleep is totally for wimps :p < 1274673349 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must admit that I sometimes indulge, however < 1274673591 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck < 1274673592 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck < 1274673593 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must sleep < 1274673739 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274673755 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MUST SLEPOFK < 1274673848 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1274673872 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1274674030 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1274674033 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: ping < 1274674037 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's time < 1274674049 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, bye :( < 1274674054 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: bye :) < 1274674055 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye alise < 1274674056 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, keep working on improving things < 1274674057 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`style irc < 1274674058 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1274674060 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style irc < 1274674060 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams) < 1274674068 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: HEY i didn't ask YOU < 1274674069 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sheesh! < 1274674073 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i leave unsatisfied! < 1274674075 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :pikhq < 1274674079 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1274674079 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEENER NEENER < 1274674531 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man < 1274674535 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what i need? < 1274674537 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alcohol < 1274674537 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1274674729 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1274675526 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1274677319 0 :elliottcable!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ec < 1274677367 0 :ec!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :\aaa < 1274677377 0 :\aaa!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :\\-\\ < 1274677425 0 :\\-\\!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ec < 1274677602 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-243-203-60.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274679806 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1274681661 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1274681908 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1274682763 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1274682770 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1274683092 0 :ec!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEENER NEENER < 1274683105 0 :Gregor!~Gregor@75-151-73-57-Spokane.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274683473 0 :ec!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :metapointer < 1274684222 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1274684334 0 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1274684368 0 :Gregor!~Gregor@75-151-73-57-Spokane.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274684496 0 :tombom!~tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1274684516 0 :metapointer!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ec < 1274684929 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1274684967 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274686493 0 :lifthrasiir!cPMXZJKJ@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1274687340 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1274687511 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1274687999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1274688000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1274692575 0 :gm|lap!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1274695618 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1274696160 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1274699509 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1274700219 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1274700582 0 :sdorand!~sdorand@pool-98-114-198-98.phlapa.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274701920 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ilua < 1274702335 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1274702856 0 :ws!wswieb@akson.sgh.waw.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1274703168 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1274703892 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1274703942 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1274705083 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274706060 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1274706474 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1274706491 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274706515 0 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274706891 0 :Phantom!~phantomho@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1274706913 0 :Phantom!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Guest12499 < 1274706973 0 :Guest12499!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Phantom_Hoover < 1274706998 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1274706998 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1274706998 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1274706998 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1274706999 0 :ec!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1274707117 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1274707117 0 :lifthrasiir!cPMXZJKJ@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1274707117 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1274707117 0 :Quadrescence!~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence JOIN :#esoteric < 1274707117 0 :ec!~ec@ec2-174-129-205-205.compute-1.amazonaws.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1274708529 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1274709281 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-11-120.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274709963 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-92-6.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1274710034 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1274710142 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1274710142 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1274711747 0 :ws!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: take a nap < 1274713526 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1274713629 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1274713641 0 :Phantom!~phantomho@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1274713669 0 :Phantom!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Guest93365 < 1274713733 0 :Guest93365!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1274714726 0 :sdorand_!~sdorand@pool-98-114-198-98.phlapa.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274714884 0 :sdorand!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1274715262 0 :Gregor-L!~Gregor@75-151-73-57-Spokane.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274715680 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1274715932 0 :Slereah!~jews@ANantes-259-1-59-162.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1274716382 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1274716398 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Gregor < 1274716611 0 :cheater2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1274716611 0 :cheater3!~cheater@ip-80-226-214-124.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1274716905 0 :Slereah!~jews@ANantes-259-1-59-162.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1274717088 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1274717191 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1274718542 0 :cheater3!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1274718780 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1274718802 0 :cheater2!~cheater@ip-80-226-193-48.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1274719068 0 :Zuu!zuu@0x55529f1b.adsl.cybercity.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1274719069 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1274719069 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1274719591 0 :aschueler!~alec@host86-142-138-45.range86-142.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1274719908 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1274719946 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wants to create a Lisp dialect where every instance of "s" is replaced with "th"
< 1274719996 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(litht 1 2 3) < 1274720011 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*cough* http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/LITHP < 1274720027 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay! < 1274720096 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great nerds think alike < 1274720120 0 :Mathnerd314_!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274720223 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1274720258 0 :Mathnerd314_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Mathnerd314 < 1274720428 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see figuring out Skyroads level format has been discussed here before... < 1274720640 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Skyroads? < 1274720717 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why in the name of goat did we make the wiki public domain? < 1274720766 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its a PC game... < 1274720784 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We can't even put GPL stuff on! < 1274720866 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1274720870 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No GPLed code. On a *software* wiki. < 1274720897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm where is ais when you need him < 1274720951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, isn't the wiki GFDL or CC-by-sa? < 1274720965 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, PD. < 1274720984 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the page Esolang:Copyrights < 1274720989 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION gives Phantom_Hoover cookies :)
< 1274720997 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :public domain for the win < 1274721030 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has no clue what people are on about, Zuu just arrived
< 1274721031 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a nice concept, but it's utterly impractical. < 1274721044 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CC-BY-SA would be much better. < 1274721067 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fact, since it's PD it could be switched with little fuss. < 1274721114 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Later < 1274721205 0 :fizzie!~fis@2001:1bc8:102:587b:230:18ff:fea9:6f01 JOIN :#esoteric < 1274721244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION watches a gtkwave window trying to figure out what is wrong
< 1274721268 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doh... < 1274721282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I still need ais, for a VHDL question < 1274721418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also fun, ghdl seems to accept åäöÄÖ in comments in VHDL. But for Å it complains about invalid char < 1274721449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess UTF-8 åäöÄÖ simply doesn't hit problematic byte values for whatever encoding it uses. < 1274721450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Å does < 1274721463 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does < 1274721475 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Å is capital å < 1274721480 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, I know < 1274721483 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should be in the same code tables < 1274721495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, I speak Swedish after all. And the file was saved in UTF-8 < 1274721504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably, it doesn't use UTF-8 though < 1274721505 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning that if one is problematic the other should be aswell < 1274721517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, well that was not the case < 1274721529 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the software is bugged < 1274721548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, well rather, the software in question use some other encoding than UTF-8 when reading the file < 1274721560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and since the editor saved the file in UTF-8 < 1274721575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably Å hits a bad code point while å does not < 1274721579 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just explained to you that even if it does, that wouldnt be the problem < 1274721593 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, well I maintain that it is logically the problem < 1274721621 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ echo -n 'Å' | od -tx1 < 1274721622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0000000 c3 85 < 1274721622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ echo -n 'å' | od -tx1 < 1274721623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0000000 c3 a5 < 1274721646 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so assuming it treated it as some single-byte encoding... hm < 1274721651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is ASCII 85? < 1274721664 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Å < 1274721668 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in latin1 < 1274721680 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1274721684 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in utf its invalid < 1274721685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, and a5? < 1274721694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so my system is fucked up... < 1274721694 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'å' in latin1 < 1274721703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ locale < 1274721703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LANG=sv_SE.UTF-8 < 1274721704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wth < 1274721706 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also invalid in utf < 1274721711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would it not use that < 1274721784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, on the other hand, what is c3? < 1274721793 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1274721794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is c3 85 valid UTF-8? < 1274721801 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly < 1274721818 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would say yes < 1274721831 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1274721847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that happens to be the multibyte codepoint of å then in utf8 presumably < 1274721852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes sense < 1274721936 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... I really need ais now :/ < 1274721950 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is this ais? < 1274721956 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :icecream? < 1274721964 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wants icecream
< 1274721978 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1274722006 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aiscream < 1274722009 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1274722156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, ais523 in here < 1274722161 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he is offline atm < 1274722170 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh! < 1274722175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I really need his knowledge about something (VHDL to be specific) < 1274722184 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see :) < 1274722190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you happen to know VHDL? < 1274722217 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really, i think it has something to do with a storage format for 3d material, no? < 1274722225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nop < 1274722230 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a hardware description language < 1274722238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :used to program FPGAs and such < 1274722239 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would have been my second gyess :) < 1274722277 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've read a bit about it < 1274722297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was quick: from not having a clue to reading a bit about it ;P < 1274722321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically I need this in a port map: foo_vector(32 downto 0) => bar_vector(0 to 32). That is reverse the vector for one component instance (but not for the other one) Which is annoying since that code does not compile. And with 32 signals in that vector, doing manual mapping per signal would be rather annoying. < 1274722329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone know how to do this? < 1274722334 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a matter of attaching these acronyms to stuff in my grain < 1274722341 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*brain < 1274722356 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :knowing the name of somthing is very very different from knowing what something is about < 1274722413 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION knows lots of stuff he doesnt remember the name of
< 1274722437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm true < 1274722443 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is also verilog, another HDL < 1274722454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how do you know it wasn't that which you read something about? ;P < 1274722472 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because i read about both < 1274722477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1274722481 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and two more < 1274722490 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia < 1274722550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay wtf at the file menu entries in gtkwave... < 1274722563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"read save file" < 1274722566 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"write save file" < 1274722568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"write save file as" < 1274722580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have absolutely no clue what the first one is < 1274722602 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably reload? < 1274722613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it is meant like "read (save file)", but then what the heck does "open" do < 1274722893 0 :ws!wswieb@akson.sgh.waw.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1274723522 0 :nooga!~nooga@c47-238.icpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1274723648 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how to check if ray hits pixel? the ray is given by 2d vector pair (o,d) where o is origin and d is a normalised direction adn pixel is given by 2d vector p < 1274723701 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't figure that out since pixels' coordinates are from Z^2 and vectors are in R^2 < 1274723731 0 :tombom!~tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1274723735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, find out if pixel is in the path of the ray < 1274723742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1274723746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1274723754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good point about the Z^2 vs. R^2 < 1274723767 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;| < 1274723794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, do the check with an epsilon? Draw the line on a buffer and check if the pixel in question is black (or whatever colour) < 1274723796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1274723839 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second method sounds better < 1274723938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, the second one sounds like a bad hack < 1274723968 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pixels have boundaries, so what you really want is to know the size of the pixel < 1274724000 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but i've already got buffer together with tested pixels on it < 1274724004 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then check if the ray intersects any of the lines that make up the pixel < 1274724009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how do you do ray colliding with box? < 1274724020 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how :) < 1274724026 0 :aschueler!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1274724034 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1274724034 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in the case with epsilon, i'd need to find good epsilon... i'm too lazy < 1274724047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do what Zuu said < 1274724050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably best < 1274724066 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1274724146 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe < 1274724159 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could collide with a small circle instead of square < 1274724253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be approx < 1274724258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what is wrong with a square < 1274724272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could in some cases optimise it to only check two or even one side < 1274724290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, straight up/down/left/right: only check nearest side < 1274724297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise only check two nearest ones < 1274724302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it is speed that you are worried about < 1274724368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you need to check many pixels against a single ray that would be a win < 1274724387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the ray would hit the same one or two nearest side(s) for all pixels < 1274724405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(unless you bounce, then you need to recalculate it for the new bounced ray) < 1274724517 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1274724534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I have no idea what you use your rays for < 1274724542 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not raytracing < 1274724551 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, that helps. < 1274724559 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm making a program that will be able to recognize shapes < 1274724565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1274724571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I fail to see what you need rays for < 1274724574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, what helps? < 1274724576 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: In what context? < 1274724579 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhm < 1274724582 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Facetious < 1274724590 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1274724616 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, are you trying to make it recognise them from a photo, or what? < 1274724623 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga? < 1274724642 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it goes like this: i got a shape, i find it's contour < 1274724652 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and mass centre < 1274724662 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is this shape stored? < 1274724672 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A picture, a set of vertices, what? < 1274724693 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then i fire rays from the centre, check intersections with the contour < 1274724763 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then i've got an array of distances from the centre, then I treat it with FFT < 1274724785 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the picture is just a monochromatic bitmap < 1274724820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, why do you treat it with FFT? < 1274724821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1274724839 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get something that i will be able to compare with another results < 1274725058 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because comparing arrays of raw numbers is not too accurate < 1274725096 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that i need some determinant < 1274725108 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1274725117 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1274725245 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274725345 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-92-6.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1274725754 0 :cheater2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1274725829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1274725874 0 :cheater2!~cheater@ip-80-226-193-48.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1274727190 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn, I hate going on Lovecraft binges. < 1274727407 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1274727574 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION really wants something to do
< 1274728154 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1274728176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, write hashlife in a HDL of your choice < 1274728181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is something to do :P < 1274728190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, a GOL processor would be awesome < 1274728198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so VHDL or verilog? < 1274728576 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A processor in Life or one that runs it on a hardware level? < 1274728595 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also Hashlife uses fancy data structures and pointers and such. < 1274728609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one on hardware level < 1274728645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, also sure, but it could still be done in hardware, after all, hashlife runs on advanced hardware < 1274728655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course that doesn't mean it would be easy < 1274728707 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd need to emulate a load of stuff. < 1274728802 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, sure, but that will give you something to do < 1274728809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will surely last for a few days < 1274728812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1274728817 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems pointless. < 1274728828 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given that I lack anything to fabricate the hardware. < 1274728835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well... you didn't ask for something pointfull ;P < 1274728842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes I know that isn't a real word) < 1274728854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, also there is simulation only < 1274728870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, okay what about a GOL processor at silicon level. I suggest an 20 nm process < 1274728875 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SIMULATION ONLY < 1274728885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(due to insane costs) < 1274728912 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'd make it simulate a fixed number of cells? < 1274728932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, a normal 64-bit machine would be limited to a fixed number of cells too < 1274728935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no difference there < 1274728949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, of course you will have to pick some upper limit when doing anything in hardware < 1274728981 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the most obvious way to do it would involve making a component for each cell. < 1274728984 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, after all, I plan a "mostly synthesisable" befunge93 processor as a summer project < 1274728999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, yeah nice, concurrent life cpu < 1274729007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calculating each generation in O(1) < 1274729010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(time that is) < 1274729019 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However it's the most impractical. < 1274729022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, idea: make it networked, so each side of the die can hook up to other copies < 1274729029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can extend it easily < 1274729039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by just connecting it to more units at the right connectors < 1274729058 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... you could have a large board, with a display unit, which could be linked. < 1274729083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, since you won't have one pin per cell probably, you would need to have some fast connection between the units < 1274729098 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it ran at a faster speed than the simulation it would be no issue < 1274729101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still fast enough < 1274729102 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That should be easy. < 1274729113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1274729121 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can just pass an appropriate string of bits for each side. < 1274729167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, and yeah you should hook it up to some array of display controllers and drive a huge high DPI OLED or whatever < 1274729174 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just don't do TFT, do something more exotric < 1274729179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exotic* < 1274729185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as oled, plasma, quantum dots < 1274729186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1274729230 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, with a sufficiently large number of cells, it would pwn even Hashlife for the patterns it could hold. < 1274729251 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, if it was clocked in GHz it would be insane. < 1274729268 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I'm not sure. < 1274729340 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you write hexdecimal values in VHDL? < 1274729359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, make it async. SOMEHOW < 1274729362 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hashlife can run 10^12 generations in under a second. < 1274729362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how < 1274729378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hash life sucks at highly chaotic patterns < 1274729382 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1274729392 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But Life is never chaotic for long. < 1274729392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, so this would beat hashlife at those < 1274729409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, there are some examples in golly for which hashlife has problems not just at the start iirc < 1274729412 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be a revolution in soup searches. < 1274729520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, see HashLife/hashlife-oddity1.mc iirc < 1274729661 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd need billions of cells to see anything interesting in that. < 1274729689 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, gliders would be hell to manage. < 1274729690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, sure. But why not build a few GB of SRAM + some logic (which is basically what this would be) < 1274729705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember you only need one bit per cells < 1274729707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cell* < 1274729718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a few GB would be 8 times as many cells < 1274729726 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you make it "cells outside of bounds are dead", you end up with blocks everwhere. < 1274729742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, also aren't there wrapping variants of life? < 1274729749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, on a torus < 1274729750 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1274729762 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Golly irritatingly doesn't support them) < 1274729768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, if you built it like an old cray machine (that is, curved) this would be easy < 1274729790 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can have Life on sensible things like tori, Klein bottles and the projective plane. < 1274729798 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not spheres. < 1274729873 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And why would you say that you cant have life on spheres? < 1274729883 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moore neighbourhood doesn't work. < 1274729892 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its just a matter of wrapping a square plane onto the sphere < 1274729902 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You end up with cells being adjacent to themselves. < 1274729913 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1274729916 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1274729920 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1274729927 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think about the fundamental polygon. < 1274729927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, at the poles or what? < 1274729933 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, at the poles. < 1274729945 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the hairy ball theorem comes into it too. < 1274729957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never heard of that theorem < 1274729959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does it say? < 1274729978 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i can easily wrap a checkered square sheet onto a sphere with no two same colored checkers adjacent to each other < 1274729990 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? < 1274730015 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hairy_ball < 1274730034 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's to do with vector fields on a sphere. < 1274730042 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. so that pretty much proves the possibility of having life on a sphere < 1274730045 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There has to be a point where the field is zero. < 1274730234 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, toroidal is nicer. < 1274730495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries to work out how to convert an x,y coordinate pair to a linear address
< 1274730497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in VHDL that is < 1274730503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :25x80 is the size < 1274730520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose that using some power of two for one of the sides will be better < 1274730529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just ignoring the "spurious" memory < 1274730636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, any idea? < 1274730710 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using a multiplication macro? < 1274730717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1274730721 0 :hiato!~nine@41.56.195.137 JOIN :#esoteric < 1274730744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, I'm trying to find something that would in theory be possible to synthesise < 1274730797 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :static multiplication should certainly be possible using an FPGA < 1274730805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes quite < 1274730808 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so do that < 1274730828 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to think of a good way to do it, I'm no VHDL expert (yet!) < 1274730841 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :addr = x * 25 + y < 1274730857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1274730872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1274730880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that is nothing like valid VHDL < 1274730888 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont know valid vhdl < 1274730889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sure, to_integer() and some other stuff < 1274730900 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im just giving you the general idea :) < 1274730908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, well I know that < 1274730912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is the VHDL specific things... < 1274730913 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the issue < 1274731012 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, src/fungespace.vhdl:35:31: no function declarations for operator "*" < 1274731015 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok... < 1274731027 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe i told you to use a macro :) < 1274731043 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1274731050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used it as an operator anyway < 1274731051 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so meh < 1274731074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely there should be some sort of standard function for it already < 1274731082 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1274731161 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did tell you that i read about it :P < 1274731262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, I looked in there < 1274731266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there should be a *a < 1274731269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a * < 1274731273 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to what I can see < 1274731274 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1274731280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the data types I'm using < 1274731284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so something is kind of broken < 1274731288 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::< < 1274731424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay got something working, but I suspect it isn't possible to synthesise < 1274731433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that Isn't the primary issue atm < 1274731485 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go with microsontrollers, more fun :P < 1274731498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. I programmed PIC12F629 once < 1274731510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt I could do befunge at all in that < 1274731518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, plus FGPAs are more fun < 1274731522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, custom hardware < 1274731547 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dont know what befunge is, but im quite certain that that pic can calculate anything you throw at it (with enough memory) < 1274731579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :befunge is a 2D esolang < 1274731591 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah a PIC doesn't have enough memory < 1274731602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least not the ones I worked with < 1274731611 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just add extra memory :P < 1274731621 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me looks up that befunge < 1274731644 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, I would say it is one of the most well known esolangs, third place after brainfuck and intercal < 1274731652 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, i've seen that language before < 1274731670 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is not very good with names
< 1274731671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is befunge93 (what I'm doing in VHDL) and befunge98 (unfeasible for me to do in VHDL currently at least) < 1274731719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, now on to the stack. This will be tricky < 1274731729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to keep some internal top of stack signal < 1274731781 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, im no master at fpgas, but considereing how they are intended to work, my guess is that you would practically have to program the fpga to act like a cpu, which itself should be quite a challenge < 1274731799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for befunge98? yeah < 1274731805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for befunge93 it would come close < 1274731808 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for any turing complete language < 1274731818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, befunge93 is not turing complete < 1274731822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while befunge98 is < 1274731823 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not? < 1274731827 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1274731832 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me is dissapointed now :/ < 1274731836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :befunge93 has limited fungespace size < 1274731843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus you can't reach deep into the stack < 1274731857 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu: Remember, the consensus here is that C isn't Turing complete :-) < 1274731857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :befunge98 fixes this < 1274731871 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, when i say turing complete i really mean LBA (ofcource) < 1274731875 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yes but there is bignum befunge98, thus it is TC < 1274731895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my efunge (coded in erlang) uses bignums < 1274731897 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: the language is, the hardware it runs on just restricts this :) < 1274731910 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu: No, the language isn't, since it requires fixed-size pointers < 1274731917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, C suffers from the sizeof() issues < 1274731920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :issue* < 1274731921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is < 1274731926 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sizeof(void*) has to be finite < 1274731933 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesnt make it nont-turing complete < 1274731937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does < 1274731941 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you consider file IO < 1274731943 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it certainly does not < 1274731946 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is debatable < 1274731960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, any given C will be non-TC < 1274731974 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you dont seem to understand what turing complete means then < 1274731987 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if sizeof(void*) is 8, then it is CHAR_BITS * 8 that is the limit of the address space < 1274731995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it is 16, well then it is CHAR_BITS * 16 < 1274731996 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not < 1274731998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1274732010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, how do you mean < 1274732017 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its just a matter of encoding of address space < 1274732033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what on earth do you mean by that < 1274732046 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using more bytes to represent an address < 1274732047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't access anything that can't be reached with a void* < 1274732058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, sure but then you change the void* size < 1274732062 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofcource you can < 1274732064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, but it must still be finite < 1274732077 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats the restriction the hardware sets, not the language < 1274732078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, the C spec forbids accessing anything outside your pointer size < 1274732084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically < 1274732095 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that again is the hardware restriction < 1274732104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, it is written in the C *spec* though < 1274732111 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu: All data must have a valid pointer in C. < 1274732113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes it a spec restriction < 1274732122 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :consider using the disk to store your data < 1274732128 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As such, all things must have a valid, unique void* to them. < 1274732128 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :again finite space < 1274732139 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finite space will _always_ be your issue < 1274732144 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, again finite due to seek offset having to be finite < 1274732146 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least as far as we know today :) < 1274732156 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what's more, void* must be a size a multiple of the size of a char. < 1274732164 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the maximum value of a char must be storable in a char. < 1274732170 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus, a char must be of finite size. < 1274732171 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in essence, C can certainly model a turing machine < 1274732178 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus, *C memory is guaranteed to be finite*. < 1274732187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, a turing machine yes. But not an universal one < 1274732194 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1274732200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see what pikhq said < 1274732212 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu: Yes, attaching an infinite tape to C can model a universal Turing machine. However, this is true for many, *many* a finite state machine. < 1274732228 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any explanation fo C not being turing complete is a flawed explanation < 1274732238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, you can't attach an infinite tape to C though? < 1274732250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, is that supposed to make sense even... < 1274732257 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that wouldnt be a finite state machine then < 1274732259 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Sure you can. Not all files are indexable. < 1274732271 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu: It's a finite state machine BECAUSE IT HAS FINITE STATE. < 1274732271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, it sounds like a religious fanatics kind of point of view. < 1274732278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :saying that " any explanation fo C not being turing complete is a flawed explanation" < 1274732288 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: then it coudlnt be turing complete < 1274732302 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu: AND C HAS FINITE FUCKING STATE. < 1274732304 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either way you tuirn it you will make it false < 1274732310 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most finite state machines, *when given infinite state to work with*, are magically Turing-complete. < 1274732313 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: no the hardware has < 1274732322 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C is a language < 1274732329 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu: No, *C is guaranteed by the spec to have finite state*. < 1274732342 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does not specifiy how large that state is, but it *must be finite*. < 1274732361 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: because it is pretty much guaranteed that hardware have finite state ;) < 1274732368 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*And thus C describes a class of finite-state machine*. < 1274732383 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu: C ITSELF FREAKING DECLARES THAT REGARDLESS OF THE HARDWARE THERE IS FINITE STATE. < 1274732385 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so really, any language you can make up cam be said to have finite state in some spec. < 1274732394 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EVEN RUNNING ON AN ACTUAL UTM, IT IS DECLARED TO HAVE FINITE STATE. < 1274732400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, the problem is not that the hardware is finite (of course it is). The issue is that the spec enforces any implementation to have finite state < 1274732415 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: and that is very much beside the point < 1274732415 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not a valid C implementation if you have infinite state < 1274732418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically < 1274732425 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, no it is _exactly_ the point here < 1274732426 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu: No, that IS THE POINT. < 1274732436 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, then you have argued for nothing < 1274732439 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The POINT is that C is guaranteed to have finite state *by the C standard*. < 1274732442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1274732461 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arguing that D is not TC under the premide it is not TC is idiotic < 1274732465 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*C < 1274732474 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*premise < 1274732481 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh at spelling < 1274732497 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu: Arguing that C is not TC under the premise that *the language is declared in such a way that it is not TC* is not merely idiotic, it's the only real way to go about it. < 1274732513 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Your* premise is "Well, C is declared to have finite state, *but* it's TC." < 1274732530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah what pikhq said < 1274732531 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No i msaying that the hardware is the limitation, shich i said right from the start < 1274732531 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is to say, your premise is about on par with "Well, 1+1 = 2, but 1+1 = fish." < 1274732545 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which in turn is the reason C can be guaranteed to have finite state < 1274732550 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu: Irrelevant. C doesn't give a shit about the hardware. < 1274732557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, sure it is. But also the official C standard forbids C from having an infinite state. < 1274732571 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C says that your state is finite, even if running on a machine with infinite state. < 1274732573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not a valid, conforming, C implementation then < 1274732584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, exactly < 1274732607 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can, of course, be obnoxiously large, but it must be finite. < 1274732676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, know any VHDL? < 1274732688 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Nope. < 1274732704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then, to anyone who does: it seems that the right way to declare a 32-bit std_logic_vector is: std_logic_vector(4294967296 downto 0) but that seems absurd < 1274732705 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, give me some hardware with infinite state, and i will write a C program that will act like any universal TC but yet only access a finite set of stats < 1274732718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, how. < 1274732722 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a C program that conforms 100% to the spec i might add < 1274732735 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu: How? < 1274732776 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By assuming that this finite state is large enough to compute whatever needs to becomputed, otherwise go into an infinite loop < 1274732801 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu: Minor problem: you are not acting like any universal TC then. < 1274732814 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, you will get the exact same result ;) < 1274732818 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are acting like a finite state machine. < 1274732821 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No you won't. < 1274732822 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1274732824 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1274732856 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*It is perfectly possible to just use more memory than your finite state machine has while still halting*. < 1274732882 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is like implementing 32-bit address space by assuming an 8-bit address space is enough, and if that fails, going into an infinite loop. < 1274732891 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no the hardware has infinite space, the program will determine if it needs more (finite) memory < 1274732906 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*But C does not allow that.* < 1274732920 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you said it jsut have to be finite space, not how much finite space < 1274732930 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as i explained, i will just assume there is more space < 1274732934 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*It must be finite and bound.* < 1274732960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has a crazy idea for how to implement the funge93 stack
< 1274732990 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just to be explicit, this argument ended at the sime you gius mentioned the finite state stuff form the spec < 1274732994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically... storing the two top values in registers. Memory mapped stack or something... < 1274733001 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*guys < 1274733004 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so, every time you run out of memory, you recompile and rerun the program with a larger address space? < 1274733008 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just became to rediculous by then < 1274733037 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that is one way to do it < 1274733037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1274733053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sure what pikhq said works. But then it can be argued to be a different program < 1274733056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the same one < 1274733061 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ,no < 1274733079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, it is the same source, but it was compiled for a different pointer size < 1274733090 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pointer size still doesnt matter < 1274733095 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, this is like arguing that an *infinite string of Turing machines with bound, but increasing as you go up the line, tapes* is TC. < 1274733095 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :While true, you don't have a single TC machine there. You have an infinite string of machines that, in combination, are TC. < 1274733095 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that is a *weird* computational model. < 1274733100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is exactly what matters < 1274733119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, a TC in potentia? < 1274733132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also #esoteric is _all_ about *weird* computational models < 1274733136 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that is perfectly fine < 1274733148 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: If ever time you overrun the tape you move on to the next machine, yes, you've got that sucker TC. < 1274733152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just it isn't TC currently, but like Just-In-Time-TC < 1274733159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or TC in potentia < 1274733165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever term you prefer < 1274733176 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Equivalent to adding a tape cell each time you hit the end, except *much* less time-efficient. < 1274733179 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1274733195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, perfectly valid computational model though. < 1274733200 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite. < 1274733209 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weird, but entirely valid. < 1274733217 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are several other ways to achieve UTC though < 1274733229 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, that C program could even serialise it's own state while waiting for the next pointer size to compile, thus avoiding rerunning the whole thing < 1274733246 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure it would have to be pointer-size-agnostic < 1274733250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that isn't much of an issue < 1274733253 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The easiest way to have TC C is to just add the following functions: read_tape(); write_tape();move_left();move_right(); < 1274733256 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or it could start a sub program to compunicate with < 1274733262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use json or some horrible shit < 1274733266 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say, and instance of itself < 1274733274 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And have those functions deal with an actual tape. < 1274733275 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still utc < 1274733285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, ah but that is not part of C. it is POSIX or win32 or whatever < 1274733289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not the C standard ;P < 1274733293 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, these amount to *extensions* to C that make it Turing-complete. < 1274733311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, C itself doesn't even have the concept of directories after all < 1274733321 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you do realize all your excuses barely apply, right? < 1274733323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and well system() is defined to be implementation defined basically < 1274733331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, I think they are very valid < 1274733332 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is theoretical, not a amtter of some random standard < 1274733342 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you think wrong :) < 1274733354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, well if we want to be theoretical about C we have to do it in context of some definition of C < 1274733358 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is one definition of C < 1274733363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is called the ISO standard for C < 1274733376 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are actually many versions of those < 1274733377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, if you don't accept that then you have to define C some other way < 1274733391 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, im fine with that definition < 1274733396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, well okay so which version? K&R? C89/C90? C99? < 1274733411 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember the posic calls are mostly implemented in C aswell < 1274733413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they are all equivalent when it comes to this though. < 1274733419 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the ISO standard for C, C is a finite-state automaton. < 1274733421 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*posix < 1274733427 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu: POSIX defines extensions *to* C. < 1274733434 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesnt amtter < 1274733440 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spelling again :/ < 1274733444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1274733459 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it does. It's not C, it's C + POSIX. < 1274733461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does it not matter? < 1274733468 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, wait what? < 1274733473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure if we discuss C + POSIX... < 1274733475 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, i have far more insterresting stuff to do than tell about ways to use C in a UTC way < 1274733488 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, are you joking? How could C merely be a finite-state automaton? < 1274733499 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: C is mandated to have finite state. < 1274733506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__, it is true. This was debated for great length in logs < 1274733509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a number of times < 1274733518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was doubtful at first too < 1274733521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I went to read the spec < 1274733523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah it is true < 1274733530 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, nwo you dont have to debate it any more :) < 1274733533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any given C implementation must be finite < 1274733538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is just how it is < 1274733552 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just like an actual physical turing machine can't exist, or worse? < 1274733565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, you can always increase it, but you can never get infinite accessible right now. < 1274733583 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: No, more in the way that Befunge-93 must always have finite state. < 1274733598 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that C doesn't care what the size *is* so long as it's finite. < 1274733608 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1274733629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__, defined in the spec. sizeof(void*) must be finite. CHAR_BITS must be finite. All data must have valid pointers. Thus your address space is at most CHAR_BITS * sizeof(void*) number of bits < 1274733638 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/CHAR_BITS/CHAR_BIT/ < 1274733642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, right < 1274733646 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :always misremember that one < 1274733675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, so in the same way funge98 would be finite then. Except the spec is fuzzy enough that you can get a bignum implementation in if you try hard enough < 1274733689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it takes a LOT of arguing with people) < 1274733694 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's possible to define too many variables? < 1274733701 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the error message for that? < 1274733707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... not like that < 1274733713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like possible to malloc too much < 1274733720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sure you could have too many variables presumably < 1274733750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__, on a 32-bit machine something like 2 x arrays of 3.9 GB each < 1274733756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea what would happen < 1274733763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably the compiler would crash with an ICE < 1274733769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or your system would swap trash < 1274733770 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ICE? < 1274733777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Internal Compiler Error < 1274733786 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a 64-bit system the limit for this would be _much_ higher < 1274733804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still finite < 1274733810 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Pretty sure Funge98 *allows* for a bignum implementation. < 1274733816 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Barely*. < 1274733829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well, I had to argue with cpressy about it being fuzzily enough written to allow it < 1274733839 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah. < 1274733844 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1274733851 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It has a sizeof, which is specced as allowing to return "really really large, infinity, etc." < 1274733855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, plus it confuses some programs who have no idea what a cell size of -1 is :P < 1274733867 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Oh good. :) < 1274733870 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Of course, it doesn't specify how "infinity" should be represented ;-P < 1274733879 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1274733892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, Deewiant, yeah I basically declared "infinity" to be equal to -1. < 1274733929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was the least insane representation I could think of < 1274733956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it breaks slowdown.b98, which tries to load a program at a random point in the address space and then jump to it < 1274733956 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about having it be the maximum value of a cell < 1274733957 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1274733969 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__, um.... do you know what a bignum is? < 1274733976 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, see my ";)" < 1274733980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1274733999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : port(tos_in, sos_in: in std_logic_vector(4294967296 downto 0); < 1274733999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : tos_out, sos_out: in std_logic_vector(4294967296 downto 0); < 1274733999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : -- Shifts things one step < 1274733999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : push, pop: in std_logic) < 1274734001 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how insane < 1274734004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that for the stack < 1274734010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of befunge93 in vhdl) < 1274734012 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, what prevents storing such a large number in a bugnum that it slows down the computer? < 1274734021 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: Nothing. < 1274734023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes the stack will be finite due to not being able to avoid it < 1274734036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__, why would anything? < 1274734046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure on any given hardware it will be limited < 1274734051 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The point of bignums is for it to be possible to be obnoxiously large. < 1274734068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, and on an UTM they could be infinite even < 1274734076 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed, they could. < 1274734085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, someone should port erlang to an UTM :P < 1274734100 0 :augur!~augur@ool-4a5806a9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274734120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course you'd have to rewrite it in another language. Since current implementations are written in C. < 1274734124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that is not required < 1274734130 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :old ones were written in prolog iirc < 1274734146 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(way before erlang went open source) < 1274734427 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am back. < 1274734482 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: For the Life thing, would it be better to have a hugely parallel collection of cells, or to have a central CPU which evolves some memory? < 1274734524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, How do you mean with the latter < 1274734539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, basically a dedicated CPU with some microcode + a lot of SRAM? < 1274734544 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1274734560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well, both are interesting IMO < 1274734560 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O god I comitted < 1274734564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure which is best < 1274734570 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o god I committed RAS sydrome. < 1274734585 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, want a list of some open source ASIC design tools? < 1274734586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1274734596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you plan the VHDL thing still < 1274734597 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The RAM one seems like it's more easily extensible. < 1274734608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well, ever heard of the transputer? < 1274734610 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it lacks the elegance of the parallel one. < 1274734653 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like parallelity. < 1274734663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, the transputer was basically grid based. Each CPU talked to the ones in the cardinal directions of it iirc < 1274734663 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I like ease of coding and extensibility. < 1274734667 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But which is better? < 1274734673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or was it some other connection scheme, but basically yeah) < 1274734678 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's only one way to find out: < 1274734680 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FIGHT! < 1274734683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, do both? < 1274734721 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, also do you plan to do it at FPGA level or lower level (silicon) < 1274734721 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1274734725 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In VHDL is there and instruction for "take component x and stick a tonne of them together in a grid". < 1274734729 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Neither < 1274734736 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no resources! < 1274734739 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, there is some for-generate loop < 1274734750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, you can _simulate_ both with open source tools < 1274734760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have access to any FPGAs either currently < 1274734774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I do at university, but I doubt I fit this into the lab time ;P < 1274734794 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, I like the "fabricate the grid in a torus" idea. < 1274734801 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be awesome. < 1274734809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well yeah you would need a lot of small dies < 1274734817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you get minimal bend at each < 1274734824 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but overall, you get some bend < 1274734855 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ASIC? < 1274734872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, it was like in the lab recently. Some prankster had taken all the female-female-serial-cable-converters and hooked them up into something that was almost a complete circle < 1274734879 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1274734880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not quite enough for a complete circle) < 1274734892 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was it for? < 1274734894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then leaned the thing against a wall < 1274734911 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then? < 1274734919 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, that circle? Someone having fun. The lab assistant laughed quite loudly when he found it < 1274734924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea who did it < 1274734950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect some post-grad < 1274734962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since we don't have unsupervised access to that lab room < 1274734969 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(lots of expensive stuff there) < 1274734999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, oh and ASIC = Application Specific Integrated Circuit < 1274735019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, you get your own in raw silicon. Like the big boys < 1274735026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah you can simulate it < 1274735036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it is a pain to do even something like a NAND gate in it < 1274735044 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is so far out of my league it's approaching it from the other side. < 1274735064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, THAT IS WHAT SIMULATION IS FOR :( < 1274735069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are open source tools < 1274735088 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which HDL? < 1274735095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :electric (wtf gui but I actually was able to do something in it!), magic (heard it was good, never tried it) < 1274735102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you draw the silicon stuff there < 1274735115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc electric can also generate some of it from simple low level VHDL < 1274735153 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, but yeah better do it at FPGA level. Like, you are more likely to actually pull it off < 1274735163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for which HDL < 1274735165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :up to you < 1274735168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one do you know best? < 1274735170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, ^ < 1274735183 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally I only know VHDL < 1274735185 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: gmote < 1274735187 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@bas5-toronto47-1088893966.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1274735187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus I selected it < 1274735192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 knows both < 1274735198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I hope to catch him soon < 1274735199 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know Verilog in the sense that I can vaguely recognise the syntax. < 1274735202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have a few questions < 1274735208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, what about VHDL? < 1274735216 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never used it < 1274735219 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1274735226 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may have actually installed Verilog... < 1274735228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, this might be way out of your league then < 1274735266 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The parallel architecture doesn't seem too bad. < 1274735274 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well there is the clock issue < 1274735285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially if you combine multiple ones < 1274735285 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm? < 1274735311 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That they will be nigh-unsynchronisable? < 1274735325 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And combining them seems silly. < 1274735341 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given that it's extremely unlikely that I'll ever make a single one. < 1274735346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing it async could be possible... but you would be in different generations everywhere < 1274735361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you need a lot of tricky stuff to do this in a safe way < 1274735365 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Synced to the ones adjacent? < 1274735395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, yeah and that is tricky. I know the theory in a vague kind of way. I know I couldn't pull it off < 1274735414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I _also_ know ais523 said he gave a talk on it one day before I asked him about it < 1274735440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, you know, some university made an async MIPS CPU < 1274735441 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah, why are people never here when I need them? < 1274735455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it ran at like 130% or something of the equiv sync < 1274735456 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MIPS? < 1274735470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and adjusted to temperature to always run the fastest possible < 1274735475 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274735484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, like SPARC, x86, PPC or whatever < 1274735489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just another architecture < 1274735505 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, if you have a router or ADSL modem it is not completely unlikely that it contains a MIPS < 1274735508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a sync one) < 1274735525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they seem to be popular in things like that mostly nowdays < 1274735604 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, what about the CPU-and-SRAM arch? < 1274735607 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For Life? < 1274735692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it would be kind of fast < 1274735696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not nearly as interesting < 1274735703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also a lot harder < 1274735709 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't know VHDL well < 1274735726 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, so I suggest a clocked parallel one < 1274735732 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, < 1274735732 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is certainly easiest < 1274735738 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it has ELEGANCE. < 1274735795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, btw can you do hashlife on a torus? < 1274735813 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see no reason why. < 1274735826 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not, I mean. < 1274735832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1274735839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was trying to parse that a few times < 1274735846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb need to get something quick to eat < 1274735857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(read: cookie) < 1274735927 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@79.103.6.164.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr JOIN :#esoteric < 1274736093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1274736209 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but hashlife in hardware would be a task that would drive a brave man insane < 1274736255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, a funge stack is near driving me insane < 1274736264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could pastebin my current work < 1274736270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is work in progress < 1274736273 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With hashlife you would already be raving. < 1274736329 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1274736355 0 :augur!~augur@ool-4a5806a9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274736357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, WIP: http://sprunge.us/VIEd < 1274736370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah it doesn't currently compile < 1274736381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just copied what was in my text editor at that moment < 1274736418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I'm not sure what I'm doing is completely valid VHDL < 1274736433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it might need a few cycles. which is irritating < 1274736441 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was hoping to do it at 1 command / cycle < 1274736448 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't think that will be feasible any more < 1274736452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like 4 cycles / command < 1274736522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also that is async (might have to be rewritten to be sync) < 1274736727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um yeah needs to be sync... sigh < 1274736911 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how fun. Funge-space is 1 cycle memory. Stack is 2 at least < 1274736914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :annoying < 1274737258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :src/stack.vhdl:58:62: conversion not allowed between not closely related types < 1274737259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1274737323 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That can happen if your family tree is too wide; your types become so unrelated that they don't convert to each other < 1274737346 0 :sdorand_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: sdorand_ < 1274737507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, XD < 1274737527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, actually it didn't like unsigned(2047) < 1274737530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1274737538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :std_logic_vector(2047) < 1274737541 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was what I tried first < 1274737553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just converted it by hand to "11111111111" < 1274737557 0 :gm|lap!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1274738180 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so hardware cell. < 1274738201 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would need one bit of storage and 8 in- and outputs. < 1274738606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1274738620 0 :cheater2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1274738621 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, 9 < 1274738631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1274738641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 inputs, 8 outputs, one clock input < 1274738643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so even more < 1274738653 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing inout would not be a good idea < 1274738654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at all < 1274738666 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inout? < 1274738670 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, clock too < 1274738674 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait. < 1274738685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a signal that can be both in and out, but you can't really use them both ways at once < 1274738688 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll need a set input too. < 1274738705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is used for stuff like data bus on memory < 1274738707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1274738718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which depending on if you are in read or write mode will act in different ways < 1274738741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea what verilog calls it < 1274738752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inout is the vhdl keyword for it < 1274738806 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the reset... < 1274738824 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe two would be necessary: set to on, set to off. < 1274738839 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So 19 inputs in all. < 1274738842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you mean initial programming < 1274738846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some kind of bus < 1274738848 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or resetting. < 1274738854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, NO NOT 19 inputs < 1274738858 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT HARDWARE, aah. < 1274738862 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not _INPUTS_ < 1274738867 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry. < 1274738871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inputs and outputs are different < 1274738871 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wirey things. < 1274738875 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1274738875 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1274738895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1274738901 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could write a single cell < 1274738904 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so for initing. < 1274738906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(vhdl) < 1274738916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, you need some way to load the values yes < 1274738930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I suggest targeted EMP ;P < 1274738937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just kidding) < 1274738955 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so can it be done with one input? < 1274739001 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you need two I think. Since it is basically a latch. Either you could have one set and one reset. Or you could have one "data bit" and one "load data bit" < 1274739020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly they could be connected in a grid < 1274739039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would mean three load inputs for each but a lot easier wiring outside < 1274739056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically you have "row active" and "column active" < 1274739065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you only read the value if both are true < 1274739090 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1274739105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I could write the needed cell quite quickly. It actually wouldn't need one output in each direction from a VHDL point of view < 1274739110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one input in each yes < 1274739251 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION contemplates adding further optimisations to his compiler
< 1274739259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, compiler for what? < 1274739264 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brainfuck. < 1274739282 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To what? < 1274739288 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's currently only barely-optimising, but fairly well setup for a large number of optimisations. < 1274739299 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: x86 assembly, nasm format, for Linux. < 1274739343 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Written primarily as an amusing timesink. < 1274739356 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, written in? < 1274739363 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I figure if I'm going to amuse myself writing a not-very-useful thing, I might as well do it *well*. < 1274739367 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: C. < 1274739371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1274739373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do it in brainfuck < 1274739394 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Makes optimisations hard to implement. < 1274739405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, still possible. After all bf is TC unlike C < 1274739413 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whereas in C, it's quite simple to write functions over the parse tree. < 1274739418 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possible, yes, but annoying. < 1274739462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, remind me of the rules for life < 1274739462 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Write it for c2bf? < 1274739463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in < 1274739467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dead/live counts < 1274739494 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Dead->live iff 3 live, live->live iff 2 or 3 love. < 1274739498 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/love/live/ < 1274739500 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Should mostly work. < 1274739504 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*If* c2bf worked. < 1274739532 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's fairly normal C99, aside from the tail-call recursion. < 1274739533 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't have IO, so it probably won't work for you. < 1274739547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, so we just do a Moore automaton in hardware or some such < 1274739556 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1274739557 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I either use stdin or a file, and stdout. < 1274739564 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not much work. < 1274739574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, no dying if too many alive? < 1274739580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1274739590 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is some life variant right? < 1274739591 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks at some of the optimisations done by esotope
< 1274739615 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That's why I said iff. < 1274739624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1274739625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so lets see < 1274739636 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything other than the figures I gave and it's dead. < 1274739641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1274739693 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders how to get a bit count on a std_logic_vector in vhdl
< 1274739705 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. esotope-bfc needs a Brainfuck backend. < 1274739707 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(IMO) < 1274739780 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, it would be hard, since it translates stuff to higher level < 1274739782 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esotope-bfc's code isn't that clean. :( < 1274739787 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esotope-bfc? < 1274739791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, of course it isn't :P < 1274739801 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Best Brainfuck compiler. < 1274739817 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Example output: int main(){printf("Hello, world!\n");} < 1274739959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, meh I can't think of a good way to counts number of set bits in VHDL < 1274739963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in < 1274739986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no ways except for creating a counter and checking every bit < 1274739989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which seems tricky < 1274740003 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also has very amusing results on hanoi.b < 1274740011 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's too fast to watch) < 1274740012 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, oh? < 1274740018 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Can't you just sum the inputs? < 1274740028 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's too fast to watch *with valgrind*. < 1274740040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, you have a fast computer < 1274740044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me run it on my pentium3 < 1274740048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it won't be that fast then < 1274740061 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well lets say we have 11100000 and 00000111 < 1274740067 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, now those are different binary numbers < 1274740092 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would that we were using INTERCAL. < 1274740099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1274740140 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Where's hanoi.b? < 1274740147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah found a way < 1274740157 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Hmm. Probably the Esolang archive. < 1274740178 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise, look for the "bfcomp" package; it's in there. < 1274740208 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's written in a somewhat high-level language targetting Brainfuck. Produces some ridiculously inefficient output, though.) < 1274740279 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just running a dead-code pass on it knocks out 778 characters... < 1274740361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, < 1274740362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if cnt = 3 then < 1274740363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : next_state <= alive; < 1274740363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elsif present_state = alive and cnt = 2 then < 1274740363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : next_state <= alive; < 1274740363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : else < 1274740366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : next_state <= dead; < 1274740368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : end if; < 1274740370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right? < 1274740394 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1274740410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah vhdl has an annoying syntax. < 1274740415 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like extremely verbose < 1274740421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes cmake seem sane < 1274740425 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ^ < 1274740462 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pascally languages tend to be pointlessly verbose < 1274740488 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Ick. < 1274740540 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And VHDL is based on Ada. < 1274740649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, okay, done but not tested. (syntax check okay, but test bench code for vhdl takes a while) < 1274740677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, http://sprunge.us/RVPh < 1274740715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, that would be one life cell < 1274740717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1274740726 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, have a look at that code < 1274740756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might be more readable with VHDL syntax highlighting < 1274740761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks for such a pastebin
< 1274740819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, pikhq http://pastebin.com/VLBRYUZc < 1274740841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the custom dead/alive type could have been skipped < 1274740845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :making the code somewhat more compact < 1274740855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that would not be good coding style I think ;P < 1274740857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1274740889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I heard verilog has saner syntax < 1274740955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, so each cell needs to be hooked up to clock and the output from each to the 8 cells next to it < 1274740962 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1274740970 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1274740978 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, oh and I forgot to implement load I see < 1274740982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easy to fix < 1274741011 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1274741078 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1274741190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, okay here is a new one: http://pastebin.com/6AM9MFGD < 1274741203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it no longer uses a custom data type it is a lot more compact < 1274741213 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone here played Manufactoria: http://jayisgames.com/games/manufactoria/ ? < 1274741231 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, we know not games. < 1274741241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poiuy_qwert, needs flash. I don't have (nor want) flash. What is it about? < 1274741243 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We know not but code. < 1274741289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, oh and I have no idea whatsoever if that for loop works < 1274741301 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its like an esoteric language game < 1274741305 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION needs to sleep
< 1274741314 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its so fun < 1274741315 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, would of course need a comprehensive test bench testing all possible inputs in both alive and dead state. < 1274741324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, cya < 1274741338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, no CTCP TIME reply? < 1274741345 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1274741349 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, what? < 1274741352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I got no reply < 1274741355 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blargh, must go. < 1274741363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, what time is it there? < 1274741621 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1274741954 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1274742427 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1274742488 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1274742544 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell map fromEnum "Å" < 1274742575 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell main = print $ map fromEnum "Å" < 1274742577 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[197] < 1274742593 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1274742682 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell main = putStrLn . map toEnum $ map fromEnum "Å" < 1274742684 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Š< 1274742728 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: That's a single Unicode codepoint, it just happens to be a UTF-8 character. And Char stores codepoints. :) < 1274742728 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh EgoBot converts from utf-8 on input but not to it on output < 1274742785 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yes but until recently haskell I/O used Latin-1, not UTF-8 < 1274742795 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh, right. < 1274742795 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm what version of ghc is EgoBot using < 1274742804 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Latin-1 must die. < 1274742824 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the worst thing is that EgoBot now converts from utf-8 on input, but not to it on output < 1274742843 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell :version < 1274742844 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unknown command ':version' < 1274742852 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell :? < 1274742854 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Commands available from the prompt: < 1274742924 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell :show < 1274742926 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :syntax: :show [args|prog|prompt|editor|stop|modules|bindings|breaks|context] < 1274742994 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1274743018 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever < 1274744029 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait ghc reads _code_ as utf-8 of course < 1274744054 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help < 1274744062 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ < 1274744069 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1274744072 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help < 1274744072 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help . < 1274744080 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help userinterps < 1274744080 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :userinterps: Users can add interpreters written in any of the languages in !help languages. See !help addinterp, delinterp, show | !userinterps. List interpreters added with !addinterp. < 1274744142 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp cp haskell main=interact$show.map fromEnum < 1274744142 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter cp installed. < 1274744147 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!cp Å < 1274744150 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[195,133,10] < 1274744208 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!cp Å Ä Ö å ä ö < 1274744211 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[195,133,32,195,132,32,195,150,32,195,165,32,195,164,32,195,182,10] < 1274744282 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!delinterp cp < 1274744283 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter cp deleted. < 1274744472 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1274744644 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp bytes haskell main=interact$show.map fromEnum < 1274744644 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter bytes installed. < 1274744672 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1274745107 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!show bytes < 1274745108 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell main=interact$show.map fromEnum