< 1274227206 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like-a the threaded code-a. < 1274227213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1274227215 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1274227225 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even though it's only slightly more efficient than a good interpreter. :P < 1274227438 0 :andares!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, I can't figure out integer division. < 1274227865 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1274227896 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1274227929 0 :augur!~augur@c-68-54-80-152.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274228034 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1274228115 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1274228341 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1274228369 0 :Zuu!zuu@0x55529f1b.adsl.cybercity.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1274228370 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1274228370 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1274228545 0 :uorygl!~Warrigal@rrcs-70-63-156-144.midsouth.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1274228800 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1274230858 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1274230931 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1274231094 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1274232262 0 :Quadrescence!~Quad@c-24-131-149-41.hsd1.mn.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274232263 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1274232264 0 :Quadrescence!~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence JOIN :#esoteric < 1274232343 0 :ws!wswieb@akson.sgh.waw.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1274233322 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@150.140.227.55 JOIN :#esoteric < 1274235283 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: computer is broken < 1274235543 0 :ws!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ... < 1274235692 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1274236630 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1274236640 0 :augur!~augur@c-68-54-80-152.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274237875 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1274237881 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1274237994 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1274238020 0 :augur!~augur@c-68-54-80-152.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274238073 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274238241 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I am leaving. You are about to explode. < 1274238325 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1274238438 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1274238589 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1274238842 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274238872 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274239324 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274239346 0 :Gregor-L!~Gregor@67-129-37-226.dia.static.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274239393 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1274239604 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Gregor < 1274239745 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274239795 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1274240379 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1274240405 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274241890 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1274242093 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1274242107 0 :augur!~augur@c-68-54-80-152.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274242370 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1274242881 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274243444 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1274243470 0 :augur!~augur@c-68-54-80-152.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274243488 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274243508 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1274243933 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274243946 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1274244131 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1274244247 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1274244277 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@74.13.126.43 JOIN :#esoteric < 1274244385 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274244489 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1274244542 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1274244725 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274245210 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274245341 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1274245868 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274245881 0 :Rugxulo!~user@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274245960 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't understand AnMaster's goal, just to have a "freehosting" (?) GCC/G++ for his whatever-oddball-processor? < 1274245985 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's bound to be other compilers besides GCC for it < 1274246003 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck, AnMaster knows some assembly, so screw the compilers, just use that, might be easier anyways :-P < 1274246013 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1274246344 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274246378 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1274246400 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, I thought the Lego stuff supported Forth? < 1274246403 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use that :-P < 1274246560 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=25272 < 1274246761 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://packages.debian.org/en/sid/binutils-h8300-hms < 1274246878 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://packages.debian.org/lenny/gcc-h8300-hms < 1274246928 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just to hammer the obvious home (though not sure if it makes it easier or not), MinGW, Cygwin, and DJGPP all use (some variant of) COFF < 1274246947 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, laptop battery low, chat with ya later ;-) < 1274246949 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs) < 1274248509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : hey, I thought the Lego stuff supported Forth? <-- pbForth? < 1274248511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well maybe < 1274248513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but nah < 1274248516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer C for it < 1274248536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I don't wish to learn H8/300 asm < 1274248554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks rather annoying < 1274248754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I needed newlib to be able to compile g++ < 1274248760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that newlib is actually used then < 1274248783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just needed for it to be able to compile < 1274249306 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl university < 1274249957 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :pikhq < 1274250630 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1274251486 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1274251737 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1274252138 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1274252420 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving... < 1274253334 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1274254930 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Night all < 1274255080 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1274255288 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1274255886 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: null < 1274255999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1274256000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1274257181 0 :andares!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1274259326 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~chatzilla@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1274259459 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, it looks like someone has finally built a self-replicator in Life. < 1274259798 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I now have profound respect for the inventor of the hashlife algorithm. < 1274259923 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link? < 1274260030 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.conwaylife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=399 < 1274260111 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's configured as a spaceship. < 1274260148 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274260477 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hence it it disassembles its parent after being activated. < 1274260533 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a lot prettier than the von Neumann replicators, though HighLife still wins that contest. < 1274262189 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1274266963 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1274267296 0 :sdorand2_!~sdorand@pool-98-114-198-98.phlapa.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274267573 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@150.140.227.55 JOIN :#esoteric < 1274269016 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has anyone else noticed that the shape of orbits is flowery when gravity is proportional to x^-1? < 1274269040 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1274269052 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how it would probably work in 2d, after all < 1274269081 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1274269124 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's not a personal "yes", btw :D) < 1274269182 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1274269211 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*i haven't noticed personally, no < 1274270794 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1274274442 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1274276398 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1274277505 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1274278880 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274278943 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have come to the conclusion that mathematics is a conspiracy. < 1274282710 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1274283011 0 :sdorand2!~sdorand@pool-98-114-198-98.phlapa.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274283146 0 :sdorand2_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1274283380 0 :hiato!~fdulu@41-135-6-154.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1274283501 0 :Gregor!~Gregor@67-129-37-226.dia.static.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274285160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, wrt. http://www.conwaylife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=399 : also a space ships that alters direction every now and then < 1274285201 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without any reflectors or such < 1274285209 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or a spaceship that goes in a circle! < 1274285256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, (regular) polygon or something? < 1274285257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1274285263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't get a circle with just integers < 1274285266 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1274285271 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Be pedantic, then. < 1274285277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks :) < 1274285281 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A path that self-connects. < 1274285301 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARE YOU SATISFIED, GEOMETRY FASCIST? < 1274285375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, challenge: write a GOL interpreter in GOL. And not the trivial "eval"-style one < 1274285383 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Been done. < 1274285387 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Three ways. < 1274285403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1274285407 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of them simulating an infinite number of separate universes. < 1274285408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl food < 1274285438 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hashlife in life, now *that* would be interesting. < 1274285790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1274285800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hah and I doubt it would be the most efficient in life < 1274285821 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evidently you eat with some sort of tube. < 1274285822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? it is an "architecture" that is completely different from "normal" computers < 1274285832 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1274285833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, eh? < 1274285844 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You did not take long with the food. Forget it. < 1274285873 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, making a computer that directly simulated Life on the hardware level probably wouldn't be as fast as using Golly. < 1274285885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, oh just an... hm what is the English word < 1274285888 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omelett in Swedish < 1274285901 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is "omelette" in English. < 1274285905 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1274285920 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We kept the 'e' because we are decadent and capitalist. < 1274285995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice non-seqiture (spelling?) < 1274286018 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, we didn't keep the 'e' on everything. < 1274286031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, :P < 1274286088 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just read someone saying that we travel at lightspeed down the time timension. < 1274286098 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/timension/dimension/ < 1274286119 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It makes no sense < 1274286171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would imply we can't travel to the future (we can't go faster) but we could slow down and even reverse... But then we could never catch up with the "present" again or something < 1274286179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah it doesn't make a lot of sense < 1274286228 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't make *any* sense. < 1274286241 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time is the independent variable for speed. < 1274286271 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So travelling along the time dimension means your speed is dt/dt, which makes no sense. < 1274286358 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, we should get space dilation :P < 1274286376 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My brain hurts now. < 1274286403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a job well done then ;P < 1274286428 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it would be dt/ds < 1274286591 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonderful < 1274286818 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1274287039 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~chatzilla@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1274287538 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1274288299 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1274288528 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~chatzilla@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1274288701 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: underflow < 1274290670 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1274291495 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1274291977 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1274292959 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~chatzilla@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1274293015 0 :cheater2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1274293621 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Sierpinski-pattern growth in any way mathematically interesting? < 1274293997 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1274294421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, ? < 1274294485 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The replicator in HighLife and the straight line in cylindrical Life both have a growth pattern tied into the Sierpinski gasket. < 1274294646 0 :cheater2!~cheater@ip-80-226-234-136.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1274294728 0 :cheater2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1274294845 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION can has obnoxiously swift Brainfuck compilation with hardly any optimisations being done
< 1274295337 0 :cheater2!~cheater@ip-80-226-234-136.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1274295560 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@ppp-94-64-150-13.home.otenet.gr JOIN :#esoteric < 1274295967 0 :ws_!wswieb@akson.sgh.waw.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1274296317 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1274296419 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1274296599 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1274296604 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan! < 1274296613 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover! < 1274296628 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan! < 1274296638 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover!!!!!!!!1111eleven < 1274296668 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1274296690 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I have come to the conclusion that mathematics is a conspiracy. < 1274296713 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know too much. expect your numbers to start not adding up in the future. < 1274296713 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was waiting for that previous exchange to escalate to interrobangs. < 1274296715 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stuff turns up in too many places! < 1274296733 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i'm still not unicode-clean you know < 1274296748 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should take an unicode-shower. < 1274296759 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek < 1274296781 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It involves taking a bucketful of BMP characters and dumping them all over you. < 1274296803 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : you can't get a circle with just integers < 1274296816 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think you are not aware of pythagorean numbers, then < 1274296834 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You'll keep finding CJK COMPATIBILITY IDEOGRAPHs in your hair for weeks.) < 1274296837 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@2406:a000:f0ff:fffe::f59 JOIN :#esoteric < 1274296867 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, well it won't be a perfect *continuous* circle, right? < 1274296871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is what I meant < 1274296880 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*triple < 1274296915 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well a continuous circle is uncountable, so... < 1274296924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what is a "CJK COMPATIBILITY IDEOGRAPH"? < 1274296925 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*triples < 1274296935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, exactly my point! < 1274296979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, now, does that ever exist outside pure math? as in real world. Drawn circles and so on < 1274297025 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have no way of measuring finely enough to find out < 1274297031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, on an atom-scale it seems doubtful < 1274297056 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Chrome Web Store provides developers a window to over 70 million people, according to Google. It’s available in Chrome and Chrome OS and will be available in the Chrome Dev Center soon." < 1274297068 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And putting things on the web: Available to everyone! < 1274297085 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously, this is.. disconcerting < 1274297106 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as they don't do vendor lockin < 1274297147 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It < 1274297162 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'s a Unicode supplement block. < 1274297167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, used for what? < 1274297178 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CJK compatibility, duh. < 1274297215 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yeah and what does that mean < 1274297231 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CJK means Chinese/Japanese/Korean < 1274297234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1274297244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, so the compat stuff? < 1274297312 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd guess it's compatibility for legacy character sets but I don't know < 1274297323 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My guess is it's so that you can have a lossless translation from some legacy character sets to Unicode and back again. < 1274297331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah makes sense < 1274297334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of < 1274297336 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least that's the justification for some other compatibility bits. < 1274297344 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, that's what I was guessing also < 1274297362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the lossless bit is the key to having it make sense < 1274297369 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Compatibility Character. A character that would not have been encoded except for compatibility and round-trip convertibility with other standards." < 1274297391 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well yes, I thought losslessness was obvious :-P < 1274297404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh I didn't consider it might be an issue < 1274297414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all it isn't for western languages really < 1274297452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm still somewhat mystified why not just encoding it as the "non-compat" entry for the same char... < 1274297457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as to why not* < 1274297463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :encode* < 1274297609 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: perhaps the original character set had different forms for variations of the same character < 1274297614 0 :ws_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a new computing project < 1274297624 0 :ws_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but have yet to figure out some parts here and there < 1274297630 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: < 1274297643 0 :ws_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, it's decomposing a computing problem into a set of, say, puzzle flash games or something like this < 1274297646 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not beinf for a "western language" does not remove the need for round-trip convertibility. < 1274297656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hm < 1274297663 0 :ws_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that users, not being aware of it, would be actually calculating something < 1274297669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, that isn't what I said < 1274297671 0 :ws_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :call it human-puting... MWAHAHAHAHA < 1274297676 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i recall a discussion with someone who said that even distinguishing upper and lower case is really a compatibility feature for Unicode (it doesn't make sense in many charsets _other_ than western) < 1274297682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, but a "western language" does not seem to have many issues with it < 1274297701 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least that I found < 1274297715 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*western ones < 1274297724 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You say this because you use a Latin script. < 1274297738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yes, so tell me why it is an issue elsewhere < 1274297741 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which really does not have encoding issues at *all*. < 1274297751 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I fail to see why unicode would do that for latin charset < 1274297771 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes about as much sense as Han unification. < 1274297789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what does? And what is that Han unification? < 1274297793 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: um do what? distinguishing or not distinguishing? < 1274297803 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Merging upper and lower case. < 1274297812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, the former. It shouldn't do the former. < 1274297844 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Han unification is the process whereby the glyphs for pretty much all CJK characters were merged into codepoints based on abstract meaning, regardless of (sometimes quite major) glyph variations. < 1274297848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, sure ASCII converts fine for most stuff. But ISO-whatever-forgot-the-number for example does as well < 1274297850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1274297873 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's mostly that they want a one-to-one mapping for existing systems, so they'll have to include characters that would "naturally" be represented some other way in Unicode. There's at least some "presentation variations" for Arabic that "should" be expressed using some rendering-state-changing characters, but legacy encodings have unique characters for those. < 1274297875 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, there is no EBCDIC compat block is there? < 1274297891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I see.. so now it is up to the font? < 1274297901 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1274297914 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which makes it a royal bitch to have plain text with both Chinese and Japanese in it. < 1274297938 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They stopped *just* short of merging Simplified and Traditional Chinese. < 1274297951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, they merged Chinese and Japanese!? < 1274297965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, why not make case for Latin scripts up to the font as well? *shudder* < 1274297975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes as much sense (none) < 1274297982 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274297983 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chinese, Japanese and Korean. < 1274297985 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, each language has its own glyph variants of Han characters. < 1274297999 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: And Vietnamese's old orthography! < 1274298003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1274298004 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Chu nom) < 1274298026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the things in question is about local differences within a language? < 1274298029 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: if they merged simplified and traditional chinese, the PRC and/or ROC would probably have declared war ;D < 1274298030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this unification I mean < 1274298041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ? < 1274298043 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(on the Unicode consortium) < 1274298072 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No, they merged nearly all glyph variants. < 1274298072 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the Chrome Web Store just makes finding cool web stuff easier < 1274298092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, even between the languages? You said they were separate above. < 1274298093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1274298112 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No I didn't. I said each language posesses its own unique glyph variants for characters. < 1274298131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, so now there are Simplified and Traditional + the rest? or what? < 1274298186 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Simplified characters have their own codepoints. Traditional Chinese as written in China, as written in Korea, as written in Japan, and as formerly written in Vietnam are using the same codepoints. < 1274298190 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Han_unification#Examples_of_language_dependent_characters < 1274298207 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Except* when a previous encoding had differentiated them. < 1274298225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, " *Except* when a previous encoding had differentiated them." <-- ? < 1274298236 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I.e. when the character is in a compatibility block. < 1274298243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1274298250 0 :augur!~augur@96.231.221.225 JOIN :#esoteric < 1274298252 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Characters, rather. < 1274298262 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1274298280 0 :augur!~augur@96.231.221.225 JOIN :#esoteric < 1274298358 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, they do look _very_ similar all over < 1274298372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1274298372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ^ < 1274298399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are like two variants of shape and a few variants that looks like font style (bolder, less bold, ...) < 1274298412 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That's... Not quite right. < 1274298425 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I doubt I have a lot of fonts for those installed < 1274298432 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'd do it. < 1274298435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't like I could read it anyway < 1274298457 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@213.249.12.32 JOIN :#esoteric < 1274298463 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've got the same font for the three Chinese variants < 1274298482 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't bothered to do any font-setting-up either, but due to some accident or other the Korean characters look a lot more calligraphistical and (arguably) nicer. < 1274298496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, for me, "Chinese Traditional" definitely have larger and bolder letters < 1274298526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chinese (Generic) == Chinese Simplified < 1274298528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the table < 1274298537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1274298550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Japanese looks like the simplified Chinese < 1274298557 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tar.us.to:4321/Han%20unification%20-%20Wikipedia,%20the%20free%20encyclopedia_1274294905927.png < 1274298563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Korean like the "Chinese Traditional" < 1274298573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, nothing like that < 1274298578 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Look at the table of non-unified characters. < 1274298601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, varies between different lines there < 1274298612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in general Japanese looks like Simplified Chinese < 1274298630 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the first and second lines are two different glyph variants. < 1274298635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, for a few lines all entries on the line do look the same < 1274298655 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To add another data point: http://zem.fi/~fis/wikihan.png < 1274298671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, even more specialised fonts < 1274298691 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately I chose another part of the table than Deewiant. < 1274298694 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :両, 两, and 兩 would be unified under normal Han unification rules. < 1274298714 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As would 亀, 龜, and 龟. < 1274298722 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, "U+4E21"? < 1274298725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well all are the same < 1274298727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :over that line < 1274298757 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, they are the same glyph, and only one font has it encoded apparently. < 1274298761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, except they seem to have different baseline < 1274298767 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm. < 1274298788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1274298933 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That U+9F9C character in this font -- http://zem.fi/~fis/wikihan2.png -- looks like an electrical-drawing symbol for something very funky. < 1274298964 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :龜 < 1274298984 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a turtle. < 1274299011 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, :D < 1274299013 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My IRC font is so tiny that everything on-channel is just a messy blob. < 1274299019 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, isn't 亀 a turtle? < 1274299023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, same here < 1274299026 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yes. < 1274299034 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :龜 亀 < 1274299036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1274299041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't say they look similar < 1274299043 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They'd be Han unified if it weren't for compatibility issues. < 1274299053 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1274299067 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Along with 龟. < 1274299105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, so since these represent abstract concepts you said... < 1274299129 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, does that mean with just a change of font, a Japanese could read a Chinese text < 1274299137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :provided it only used "shared" glyphs < 1274299149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't know if some are unique to one of the languages) < 1274299151 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1274299155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, why not? < 1274299178 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Radically different grammar and semantics. < 1274299187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1274299198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, then han unification made even less sense < 1274299203 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Japanese merely *borrowed* Chinese characters for the purpose of writing their language. < 1274299208 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But could it be like reading the world's most horrible machine translation of the other language? :p < 1274299221 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Most horrible? Perhaps. < 1274299250 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "shared semantics" thing is the sort-of justification for the unification: "This isn’t to say that ideographs are truly ideographic, in that they represent abstract ideas; but they generally have one root meaning from which the others derive, and generally retain the bulk of their semantic content across linguistic boundaries." < 1274299272 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I should also note: Chinese is not one language, but several languages, which happen to have a common standard orthography. < 1274299283 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have been under the impression that it was mostly to get everything to fit in 16 bits, though I can't find that said anywhere. < 1274299297 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(presently, said standard is moderately formal written Mandarin. Before the 50s or so, it was Classical Chinese.) < 1274299367 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it was only for the 16-bittiness, they should undo it now that they have 20 bits anyway. < 1274299389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, so widely different dialects then? < 1274299391 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can get Unicode's "semantic content" hints for any of the unified characters from http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUnihanData.pl?codepoint=9f9c -- that's for the turtle -- after scrolling past mappings to other encodings. < 1274299406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, or is the grammar completely different? < 1274299424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there are some grammatical variations in Swedish dialects iirc) < 1274299428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at least in some) < 1274299438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(mostly gone in "current" times) < 1274299446 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Grammar for the vernacular tends to have notable shifts. But they *are* related languages, so nothing quite as extreme as between Japanese and Chinese. < 1274299453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, right < 1274299463 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have, however, had *very* radical phoneme shifts. < 1274299516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1274299548 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say the best analogy is that the Sinitic languages are like the Romance languages, except with somehow writing in Latin being considered the way to write in the Romance languages. < 1274299573 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and... Reading it out loud using the local cognate words, not Latin) < 1274299584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sinitic? Romance? < 1274299590 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no clue what those are :P < 1274299594 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Language families. < 1274299601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1274299611 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sinitic languages = the languages deriving from Old Chinese. Romance languages = the languages deriving from Latin. < 1274299612 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Romance is IIRC Eastern Europy. < 1274299619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1274299629 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :romance = portuguese, spanish, french, italian, romanian, and some other small ones < 1274299633 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: only romanian < 1274299634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1274299641 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1274299660 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there's also English, which is arguably half-Romance. :P < 1274299667 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only in vocabulary. < 1274299672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I heard English placed as a germanic language? < 1274299685 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is Germanic in grammar and a lot of the words. < 1274299688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1274299712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, most(?) non-isolated languages imported words though < 1274299714 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: more english words are romance than germanic iirc, but the _most common_ words are germanic < 1274299723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Swedish is definitely from the germanic family < 1274299742 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*mostly germanic < 1274299747 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Many of those common words are not, however, native to English. < 1274299750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yet we have imported quite a few French words. garage and garderob iirc come from French < 1274299754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are more < 1274299775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(btw: garderob = wardrobe) < 1274299783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(garage = garage) < 1274299792 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 25% of our vocab is from French. < 1274299797 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :25% of our vocab is from Latin. < 1274299807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well it isn't as much for Swedish, but there are quite a few things... < 1274299809 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: borrowings from other germanic languages, you mean? (like egg, skirt and such) < 1274299818 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes. < 1274299823 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Sky". < 1274299832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :window (germanic) < 1274299840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, where is "sky" from? < 1274299840 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember reading that in Welsh, the words for "church", "bridge" and "window" are all from Latin. < 1274299844 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Old Norse. < 1274299850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh makes sense < 1274299854 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus implying that the ancient Britons did not have these things. < 1274299854 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally "sky" means "cloud" not sky in norwegian < 1274299856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have sky in Swedish still < 1274299866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, not like that here < 1274299869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather < 1274299871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on context < 1274299898 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sky would be "himmel", which also means heaven dependent on context < 1274299920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I would say himeln for the sky in Swedish probably. More natural. Not that "skyn" is archaic < 1274299925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :himlen* < 1274299935 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: "window" ~ "wind-eye" < 1274299937 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We also developed quite a few grammar simplifications from Old Norse. < 1274299967 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in new norwegian that's still transparent, "vindauge" = "vind" + "auge" < 1274299973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, also a simple rule for a/an. I love that in English < 1274299977 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yeah, but in Welsh it's something like "ffenys", which obviously derives from the Latin "fenestra". < 1274299980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a LOT easier to learn than French < 1274299982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1274299987 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, Welsh. < 1274299990 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1274299995 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure of "fenetr?"'s declension. < 1274299998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, in modern Swedish, window is "fönster" < 1274300005 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which came from German iirc < 1274300012 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then from other languages < 1274300017 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: :) < 1274300056 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It evidently came to Finnish from Russian < 1274300057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yet you haven't updated English yet. If even we dropped "window"/"vindöga" so should you :P < 1274300067 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what did? fönster? < 1274300078 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, fi:ikkuna. < 1274300096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, doesn't look similar to fönster at all, so I guess it is not connected to that at all < 1274300097 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ru:окно. < 1274300101 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :defenestration is a cool word < 1274300103 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like I just said < 1274300124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, sure but I meant where the Russians took it from < 1274300129 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(obviously) < 1274300133 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: We just pile on other influences is all. < 1274300141 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, that'd be Proto-Slavic. :-P < 1274300150 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Defenestration is one of those words for which I'm dying to find a use. < 1274300155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ah. Is that like "no one knows for sure"? < 1274300159 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1274300181 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or "it's so old that we lack the info". < 1274300188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, what does it mean? < 1274300196 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: we could use it on you, and you'd be quite likely to be dying, yes < 1274300199 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Throwing out of a window. < 1274300203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hah < 1274300231 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1274300232 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though out of a window feels like it should be "exfenestration". < 1274300269 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to Wiktionary (Swedish) "fönster" is from Latin too. < 1274300276 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well given that it's _through_ the window, should be transfenestration < 1274300315 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: well naturally given de-fenestr-ation < 1274300354 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evidently the proto-Germanic people didn't have windows. < 1274300376 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: hey what's wrong with wind-eye < 1274300406 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, but why would it be applied inconsistently if it was in the root of the Germanic languages? < 1274300431 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because using latin words is pretentious? < 1274300445 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1274300447 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except in English, where it's done without realising it. < 1274300463 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish there was a Latin equivalent of "pretentious". < 1274300468 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or even that I knew one. < 1274300483 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quidquid Latine dictum sit, altum auditur. < 1274300497 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1274300504 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"altum" means "profound", not "pretentious". < 1274300528 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: erm "pretentious" is obviously latin-derived? admittedly it may not have existed originally < 1274300552 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, but I suspect it's like "ostensibly". < 1274300562 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1274300578 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ostendo" just means "I show", not what it means in English. < 1274300611 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well so ostensibly should mean "showably", then... < 1274300645 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, but it means something like "giving only the outwards appearance of" in English. < 1274300678 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274300688 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo! < 1274300697 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however pretentious means pretending to be better than you are, so that's no so far off... i think < 1274300700 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's lonely in ##gameoflife. < 1274300723 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's ##gameoflife now? < 1274300736 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: What I mean is that the Latin root probably has different connotations to the English word. < 1274300745 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yeah, it's a better name. < 1274300745 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1274301567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I found out one of my rcxes doesn't work. < 1274301572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I will have to do with a single one :( < 1274301609 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1st commandment of troubleshooting: If thy Hardware breaks down, though must Hit it Sharply. < 1274301701 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, that doesn't apply to purely surface mounted components I think < 1274301713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did check that I got voltage across the battery box < 1274301726 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah I can't do much about the tiny surface mounted components < 1274301726 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hast thou Hit it Harder? < 1274301731 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION can't wait to play Gish at the speed it was meant to be played at
< 1274301742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hah < 1274301744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah < 1274301768 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, the links to the games don't include the bundle ID < 1274301769 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What could Possibly go Wrong? < 1274301778 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I could point someone to a game and not have it be traced to me >.> < 1274301792 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: How old is your machine now? :-P < 1274301794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, a lot < 1274301795 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless referer stuff is used, I guess < 1274301803 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, this is, um, 2006 or earlier < 1274301807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, though lego is probably rugged when it comes to that < 1274301810 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But far better than the 2000 machine I was on before < 1274301828 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gish is 2004, you know :-) < 1274301873 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It still ran.. slowly.. on my old machine < 1274301906 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you get it from a thrift shop in 2006? :-P < 1274302035 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1274302065 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, any even half-new machine from 2006 /should/ be able to run Gish just fine < 1274302124 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1274302542 0 :charlls!~charlls@201.226.222.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1274302649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, Gish? < 1274302701 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A game, I believe. < 1274302710 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You control a blob of tar IIRC. < 1274302716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : According to Wiktionary (Swedish) "fönster" is from Latin too. <-- probably. But indirectly < 1274302739 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read about it in SAOB (iirc) that it came from Mid-German or something like that < 1274302755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, but they then imported it from somewhere south < 1274302853 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/fenestra#Latin < 1274302857 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it does < 1274302864 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But before, I was on my machine from 2000 < 1274302904 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah; I was intending to query about the not-at-the-speed-Gish-was-meant-to-be-played machine < 1274302990 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time to play with Aquaria < 1274303028 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aquaria are not to be played with! < 1274303043 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-243-203-60.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274303056 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fish are delicate creatures < 1274303108 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1274303110 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No they aren't. < 1274303124 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aquaria was a nice bonus; the only one of those games I hadn't already played < 1274303163 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: see how well they fare if you break the aquarium < 1274303243 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's like saying rhinoceroses are delicate because they die if you drop them in the ocean. < 1274303271 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's true - from a certain point of view < 1274303310 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now if it were hippopotami... < 1274303376 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hippopotamus" derives from Greek, not Latin, and I must go. < 1274303408 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so? most greek words get squeezed through latin anyhow < 1274303414 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today I learned: rhinocerotes are delicate but hippopotamuses aren't < 1274303423 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1274303438 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: no one can say #esoteric isn't educational! < 1274303448 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well they could, but they would be lying < 1274303450 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's its main purpose, isn't it? < 1274303463 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that and instilling insanity < 1274303490 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same difference? < 1274303570 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true, true < 1274303607 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also, spam < 1274303627 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll catch up with it in a bit < 1274303737 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1274303902 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, deleted < 1274304059 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~chatzilla@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1274304191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : You control a blob of tar IIRC. <-- well then gzip it ;P < 1274304194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION runs
< 1274304200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hi < 1274304204 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1274304220 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION runs after AnMaster and swats him -----###
< 1274304222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, can you tell me how VHDL integer overflow/underflow is handled? < 1274304234 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :integers? it isn't < 1274304245 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STD_LOGIC_VECTORs overflow in the usual 2's complement way, though < 1274304266 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actual integers are mostly only useful for things like testbenches, as they don't synthesise < 1274304277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so for befunge93 in VHDL a subtype like (79 downto 0) won't work? You would need border logic still? < 1274304289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ouch < 1274304296 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: oh, if you specify bounds, it might work < 1274304301 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that doesn't synthesise /at all/ < 1274304315 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"integer from 79 downto 0" is not a type that exists in hardware < 1274304328 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least not without more information as to how to represent it < 1274304335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, 100% sure? Because... at a lab at university we used an integer subtype with limited range and it did synthesize... < 1274304356 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not 100% sure < 1274304365 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can imagine synthesisers that could manage that < 1274304386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well iirc (was a few weeks ago now) it wasn't that specific range < 1274304393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hm < 1274304400 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might have been forced to a power of 2 < 1274304409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it was a power of two iirc < 1274304444 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :integer (255 downto 0) strikes me as pretty similar to std_logic_vector (7 downto 0) < 1274304450 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't see why you wouldn't use the second < 1274304464 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, can you add two of the latter? < 1274304466 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can cast it to an integer whenever you need its value, but now you also have a nice simple representation of it < 1274304469 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yup < 1274304481 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to import std_logic_vector arithmetic libraries, but they're standard < 1274304482 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and increment it? And so on < 1274304509 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there'll be code inside the library to explain how to synthesise an adder, etc < 1274304529 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1274304535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, which is the fastest "RAM" to implement on a FPGA? < 1274304541 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and what about space usage < 1274304555 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: fastest "RAM" is if you go to the manufacturer and ask them for a RAM core < 1274304563 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are so basic you can normally get them for free < 1274304565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, SRAM, d-latches, ... < 1274304588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I was considering a stack of 2048 items to go with the 25x80 fungespace of this... < 1274304590 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: onboard RAM goes at the rate of 1 per cycle, as normal < 1274304604 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yep but would that be feasible as on board < 1274304612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a typical FPGA < 1274304630 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAIR, they're both pretty much equally feasible, you just have different quantities of them < 1274304640 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :onboard RAM takes less chip space as LUT RAM < 1274304646 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ... well I meant the quantity I mentioned above < 1274304651 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they both take one clock cycle to read or right < 1274304653 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*write < 1274304666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh you mean they have special ram, not written like latches/flip-flops? < 1274304667 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 KB seems like a bit much for LUT RAM < 1274304668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1274304670 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, they do < 1274304688 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, of course, it isn't portable < 1274304691 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well I meant this to both run in ghdl and in theory be mostly synthisable < 1274304699 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to get the RAM description from the manufacturer < 1274304703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so I'm confined to LUT RAM then < 1274304722 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you could write your own synthesis model for some plausible onboard RAM < 1274304730 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*simulation model < 1274304737 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just in terms of arrays of integers or whatever < 1274304744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I'm going to attempt "portable" VHDL + a ghdl wrapper (mapping the signals to console IO and such) which could be replaced for actual synthesis < 1274304775 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I say, make your "RAM" an entity < 1274304787 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with one architecture just being LUT RAM, and another being simulated RAM < 1274304793 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1274304795 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can add a third or fourth if you ever need on-chip RAM < 1274304798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1274304813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, wouldn't simulated ram == lut ram? < 1274304827 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably run faster in an actual simulation < 1274304837 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you'd be manipulating numbers in memory, rather than arrays of bits < 1274304841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about the registers? How should those be handled. I need like x,y,direction,stringmode < 1274304853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably a few more, not sure < 1274304854 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make them signals < 1274304872 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'll synthesise into LUT RAM, or possibly something more optimal < 1274304879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, at what entity level? Or do you suggest I write the whole b93 interpreter in one entity? < 1274304905 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are at the level of the main entity; you can pass them as 'arguments' to other entities you use < 1274304912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1274304915 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1274304916 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VHDL doesn't have monads, so you have to do it by hand < 1274304922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1274304934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, port map presumably? < 1274304944 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1274304949 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever stupid name VHDL uses for it < 1274304964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I thought you knew VHDL? < 1274304970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also these would need to be in and out, in various places < 1274304977 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or inout < 1274304982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1274304982 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do know VHDL, sort of < 1274304990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm scared of ending up driving it in multiple places < 1274304995 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but normally I get Emacs to do all the details for me < 1274305000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? < 1274305008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION used kate so far
< 1274305023 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: try, so long as you have VHDL-mode you'll be pleasantly surprised < 1274305054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kate has a quite nice VHDL mode too < 1274305074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it red-underline-bold highlights mismatched end lines < 1274305083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like end entity somethingelse; < 1274305090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1274305102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if ... case ... end case; end if < 1274305108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1274305110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant < 1274305115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if ... case ... end if; end case < 1274305117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1274305152 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VHDL needs more tool support than Java, really < 1274305153 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, nice VHDL menu but what does all the options do < 1274305160 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't use the menu, normally < 1274305164 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it triggers as you type < 1274305172 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g., type "entity " and see what happens < 1274305173 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like... compose → wire components? < 1274305181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what on earth is that < 1274305185 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea, offhand < 1274305219 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hdl Electric Mode: Hide Value Toggle on (non-nil) < 1274305220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : State: STANDARD. < 1274305220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Non-nil enables electrification (automatic template generation). < 1274305226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vhdl* (on first line) < 1274305242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that had be confused for a bit before I read the desc... < 1274305252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and realised it was *emacs* electric mode) < 1274305256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not hardware electric) < 1274305279 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's what means I don't have to memorise lots of boilerplate < 1274305301 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you mean library IEEE; use ieee.std_logic_1164.all;? < 1274305309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is trivial to remember < 1274305322 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I mean, say the syntax for entity < 1274305327 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even a simple for-generate loop < 1274305348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :entity foo is ... end entity foo; < 1274305364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I need to learn this, will have exam where I have to show I know it...) < 1274305495 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not just that, there's all the boilerplate you have to put /inside/ that < 1274305511 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VHDL has far too much syntax, it goes on for miles and most of it's redundant < 1274305545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh inside that? port(a,b,c: in std_logic; d,e,f: out std_logic); ? < 1274305554 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that sort of thing < 1274305564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, which isn't really redundant < 1274305578 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is there anything except that an the generics stuff you put in the entity? < 1274305588 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really, but compare it to C < 1274305605 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int entity_name(int a, int b, char c, char d); < 1274305617 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering how similar things are... < 1274305638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1274305649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but VHDL has functions too iirc? < 1274305652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which are different < 1274305671 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VHDL has /everything/ < 1274305676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stuff like rising_edge() or various conversion routines < 1274305680 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two sets of primitives, declarative and imperative < 1274305685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes but what are VHDL functions used for? < 1274305699 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~chatzilla@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1274305700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you mean <= outside process vs. inside process kind of thing? < 1274305708 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Update please. < 1274305717 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: pretty much < 1274305720 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: on what? < 1274305727 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EVERYTHING. < 1274305729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover # apt-get update < 1274305736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover # apt-get upgrade < 1274305739 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, done :P < 1274305746 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: sudo aptitude update && sudo aptitude safe-upgrade < 1274305759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, eh? who uses aptitude < 1274305770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's kind of painful < 1274305771 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do nowadays; it keeps track of things a bit better than apt-get does < 1274305774 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to being higher level < 1274305774 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1274305777 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use aptitude... < 1274305795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should start using dpkg or something < 1274305821 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: and wget? < 1274305829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, sure why not < 1274305830 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I'm terrified of my system being filled to the brim with pointless packages that were needed when I wanted to experiment with X, which I have since uninstalled. < 1274305838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and sudo is annoying. Redirection issues < 1274305841 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: netcat? < 1274305855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or that with && < 1274305876 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I don't mind my system filling with pointless packages < 1274305881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, there are logs in topic < 1274305899 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have OCD... < 1274305931 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Manually uninstalling the 5000 dependencies for whatever is even worse than just leaving them. < 1274305942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, what has that got to do with apt-get? < 1274305952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does track what is installed as dep < 1274305957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what is explicitly installed < 1274305978 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do aptitude too; the conflict resolution is better. And I don't feel the pain. < 1274305978 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it? < 1274305999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well at least it told me "this package is no longer required" in such a situation < 1274306000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a few times < 1274306022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, do you do apt-cache at least? < 1274306056 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's "apt-get autoremove" which does the "remove packages that were automatically installed to satisfy dependencies for some package and that are no more needed" task; I don't know if it's automagically invoked sometimes too. < 1274306072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, no it isn't. And shouldn't be < 1274306084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it tells you however if there are such packages < 1274306094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but happily it doesn't run it automatically < 1274306162 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: there's a command-line option to ask for it to be automagically invoked < 1274306165 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't without that < 1274306196 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, --auto-remove. < 1274306212 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a configuration item you can set. < 1274306212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can set it in the config file I bet < 1274306217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1274306223 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :APT::Get::AutomaticRemove. < 1274306246 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They've been crafty and put that "matic" part in so that it wouldn't match the command/option. < 1274306271 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ponders the reason that The Apprentice uses xylophone music.
< 1274306475 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xenophobia. < 1274306687 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.dangermouse.net/esoteric/wpeg.html < 1274306695 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's actually a pretty good idea. < 1274306711 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compression for the internet age. < 1274306743 0 :aschueler!~alec@host86-142-138-45.range86-142.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1274306812 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION begins rambling
< 1274306859 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION stops.
< 1274306952 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274306995 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ramble ramble, lurk and shamble < 1274307129 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're a mathematician, right? < 1274307171 0 :kk!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274307213 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1274307218 0 :kk!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :kar8nga < 1274307226 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Well? < 1274307292 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose so < 1274307319 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What kind? < 1274307346 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly former < 1274307358 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you do now? < 1274307365 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing < 1274307388 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :used to be functional analysis and dynamical systems < 1274307466 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and measure theory < 1274307474 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of a kind < 1274307715 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course. < 1274307740 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you remain annoyingly hard to Googlestalk. < 1274307782 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to googlestalk my published articles, all of them are collaborations with either Richard Gjerde or Alf Rustad. < 1274307813 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also Johan Aarnes in one three-author paper) < 1274307875 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries to calculate oerjan's Erdös number
< 1274307884 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4, via Aarnes < 1274307896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1274307904 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a friend with a Bacon number of 3. < 1274307911 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, so you don't have a job now? < 1274307915 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1274307922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hm how do you pay bills and such? < 1274307930 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :His father published a paper, but as far as I can tell he's in an isolated network. < 1274307964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait forgot Norway have social security... < 1274307982 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out-of-work mathematicians... < 1274307989 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Will integrate for food" < 1274308003 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1274308012 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, XD < 1274308337 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1274308357 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Do you not have social security in Sweden? < 1274308729 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1274308755 0 :augur!~augur@96.231.221.225 JOIN :#esoteric < 1274308768 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1274308816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we do < 1274308819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah it isn't great < 1274308864 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Compared with the US, I'm sure it is awesome. < 1274308886 0 :ws_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ws < 1274308923 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Would you become homeless if you did not have a job? If no, it's awesome compared to the US. < 1274309009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, most likely not. < 1274309023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it would be harsh conditions < 1274309025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still < 1274309037 0 :elliottcable!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :e_e_cable < 1274309052 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How harsh? < 1274309053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, the amount of money you get is just enough for rent and some food. Nothing more than that. < 1274309069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no new clothes can be fit in or anything < 1274309078 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Radically* better than the US. < 1274309191 0 :hiato!~fdulu@41-135-6-154.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1274309340 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When unemployment pay ceases in the US, you're... Just kinda fucked. < 1274309926 0 :e_e_cable!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :elliottcable < 1274310009 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@150.140.227.55 JOIN :#esoteric < 1274310170 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1274310190 0 :augur!~augur@96.231.221.225 JOIN :#esoteric < 1274310269 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1274311029 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1274311106 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: underflow < 1274311136 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: null < 1274311338 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274311548 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1274311577 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1274311914 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1274312137 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274312233 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1274312760 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1274312788 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274313246 0 :sdorand2!~sdorand@pool-98-114-198-98.phlapa.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274313289 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1274313290 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION was not expecting there to be boss fights in Aquaria
< 1274313315 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aquaria? < 1274313331 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-222.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274313349 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you mess with the boss you'll be sleeping with the fishes < 1274313360 0 :augur!~augur@96.231.225.145 JOIN :#esoteric < 1274313382 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1274313386 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1274313398 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one would think however that intelligent life appreciates other intelligent life < 1274313411 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though where I fit I truly have no idea < 1274313462 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION gently taps sdorand2's pun detector
< 1274313478 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one would hope.... < 1274313481 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tsk, tsk < 1274313493 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea what i've even stumbled across.... < 1274313497 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have some ideas < 1274313501 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they're all borderline insane < 1274313514 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depending on one's relativistic philosophies < 1274313552 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this channel is about esoteric programming languages, not the other kind of esoterica < 1274313565 0 :sdorand2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps its all the same thing