00:00:39 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
00:02:10 -!- charlls has quit (Quit: Saliendo).
00:12:54 -!- libaneses has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
00:20:35 <AnMaster> <Mathnerd314> you can get it for free, unless it is past May 24th, when you will have to pay money again <-- huh?
00:20:58 <soupdragon> but ... the servers are overloaded so try anothre day
00:21:08 <AnMaster> soupdragon, I would play it in wine
00:26:58 -!- oklofod has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
00:27:08 -!- aschueler has quit (Quit: leaving).
00:41:38 -!- Sgeo has joined.
01:02:13 -!- Oranjer has joined.
01:08:52 -!- Tritonio_GR has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
01:29:23 -!- Gracenotes has joined.
01:33:50 -!- cheater2 has joined.
02:56:00 -!- soupdragon has quit (Quit: soupdragon).
03:06:41 -!- Mathnerd314_ has joined.
03:08:08 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
03:08:25 -!- Mathnerd314_ has changed nick to Mathnerd314.
03:09:10 -!- oerjan has joined.
03:11:07 <oerjan> <pikhq> So, you replace all free instances of "v". ;)
03:11:14 <oerjan> um, no that is not sufficient.
03:12:36 <oerjan> you must rename some of the bound instances of variables mentioned in x
03:12:49 <pikhq> Ah, blah, alpha reduction necessary.
03:12:50 <oerjan> (for ((\v->e) x) = e[v := x]
03:13:17 <pikhq> "Some more work required"
03:15:46 <oerjan> i've never implemented lambda calculus myself, but i'd guess alpha reduction is a more awkward part than beta.
03:16:19 <pikhq> I'd imagine it'd be less awkward (and less efficient) to just transform it into SK.
03:16:32 <oerjan> (without it no one would bother with all that deBruin index stuff and things, would they)
03:18:01 <oerjan> well yeah abstraction elimination isn't so bad. i have nearly implemented that. (improved someone else's eliminator for "optimizing" unlambda)
03:29:06 -!- Gregor-L has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
03:42:07 -!- augur has joined.
03:43:13 <coppro> oerjan: I recall you explained Norway's voting system to me a while ago. Can you run it by me again?
03:45:12 -!- Gregor-L has joined.
03:45:45 <oerjan> each county is a voting district, electing a number of representatives (dependent on population and area)
03:45:55 <oerjan> by proportional representation
03:47:00 <oerjan> we just choose one party list. it has varied whether we can do amendments of candidate positions.
03:48:00 <oerjan> in addition to the fixed number of direct local representatives, there is 1 candidate per county chosen based on national total votes, to smooth out things
03:48:54 <oerjan> so generally representation ends up pretty proportional to national representation, _provided_ the party gets at least 4% of total votes.
03:49:36 <oerjan> however if it dips below 4%, it gets only the direct votes, which can be catastrophal like it was for Venstre last year
03:49:48 <oerjan> 169 i think, let me check
03:50:17 <coppro> is there a place where I can read up on it?
03:50:42 <oerjan> http://www.google.no/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=14&ved=0CFsQFjAN&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FParliament_of_Norway&rct=j&q=stortinget&ei=vGjrS9TLIpef-gb0qJnABA&usg=AFQjCNG3Vy-ocOwR89eLiisHtkKB9XOUbQ GOT FUCKING DAMN GOOGLE
03:50:50 <coppro> also, what's your opinion on how well it works, and does it give voters much leeway in selecting individual candidates they like?
03:50:55 <oerjan> i don't want your fucking redirection
03:51:29 <oerjan> almost no leeway, i don't think the candidate modifications are even used for the national elections anymore
03:51:47 <coppro> okay, so that's a downside
03:51:49 <oerjan> (i guess that link works even if it is annoying)
03:51:52 <coppro> but at the same time, one that's easily fixe
03:52:12 <oerjan> well they _undid_ it, so obviously they didn't like it
03:52:22 <oerjan> or it had almost no effect anyway
03:53:18 <oerjan> oh and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_Norway
03:57:15 <oerjan> for local elections there is a lot more leeway though, apparently you can even add candidates from other parties http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_municipal_elections#Ballots
03:57:21 <oerjan> assuming that's up to date
04:07:19 * uorygl adds another seven Finnish words to his flash card deck.
04:08:26 <oerjan> flash cards are harmful! steve jobs says so.
04:09:32 <uorygl> Evidently he's had a change of heart, as these flash cards are on my iPod Touch.
04:09:57 <uorygl> I read Apple's Flash spiel; it does have some points.
04:10:13 <oerjan> it's just an old app they haven't got around to deleting yet. expect it to disappear soon.
04:10:56 * oerjan hasn't bothered to read Apple's Flash spiel, but cannot avoid noticing all the reddit headlines...
04:11:28 <oerjan> well, technically i _can_, i suppose
04:11:29 <pikhq> oerjan: Flash is proprietary, they say.
04:11:42 <pikhq> While running a proprietary platform.
04:11:48 <pikhq> The irony is nearly corporeal.
04:12:16 <oerjan> that's the gist i got of it, yes
04:12:24 <uorygl> They also said that there should be only one platform, because that way, developers don't need to restrict themselves to the set of common features.
04:12:45 <uorygl> That part of it I kind of disagreed with. :)
04:13:11 <oerjan> that is some very esoteric logic right there
04:16:54 <Sgeo> Sure, if developers would be FORCED to use Flash if Flash was supported, I could understand
04:16:57 * uorygl finally convinces the flash card app that he kinda knows those new seven words now.
04:17:25 <uorygl> That took about ten minutes. Not really too shabby.
04:18:25 <uorygl> Now I can kinda sorta read the first four sentences of the Finnish Wikipedia article about koirat.
04:20:23 * uorygl recognizes "ruokana" as being the essive case and correctly guesses the meaning of "ruoka" by the illustration.
04:22:35 <oerjan> be careful. soon you will start getting this inexplicable urge to drink heavily in hot, steamy places. and carry a knife.
04:22:51 <uorygl> Do Finns all carry knives?
04:23:25 <oerjan> i vaguely think oklopol said something about them being banned in cities
04:23:27 <uorygl> I would never drink heavily in hot, steamy places. Drinking heavily in hot, dry places, on the other hand, is starting to sound like a good idea.
04:23:38 <pikhq> uorygl: Any reason for learning Finnish?
04:23:56 <oerjan> but that doesn't matter, because you will also get an urge to move to a desolate hut in the middle of a forest.
04:24:02 <pikhq> (and yes, I will accept "just because" as an answer)
04:24:10 <uorygl> Well, I like Scandinavia, and I also want to learn a non-Indo-European language.
04:24:21 <pikhq> Finnish is Indo-European.
04:24:46 <pikhq> No, it's Uralic, isn't it?
04:24:59 <pikhq> No wonder it's so weird.
04:25:52 <pikhq> Only Indo-European influences, then, are due to Sprachbund. Fun.
04:28:05 <uorygl> I think after my vocabulary catches up to the first paragraph of this Wikipedia article, I'll have to find a Finn who can explain all these suffixes.
04:28:51 * pikhq shall continue preferring Japanese. Mmm, language isolates...
04:29:17 <uorygl> We should merge language isolates with each other!
04:29:18 <pikhq> (well. Nearly. It *is* related to those pesky Ryukuan languages.)
04:30:42 * uorygl pauses to allow someone to interject about the unnecessity of sleep.
04:42:11 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
04:54:45 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving).
05:24:29 -!- augur has joined.
05:30:47 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
05:42:50 -!- adu has joined.
05:43:13 -!- adu has quit (Client Quit).
05:46:02 -!- Oranjer1 has joined.
05:46:44 -!- Oranjer has quit (Disconnected by services).
05:50:06 -!- lament has joined.
06:04:51 -!- Oranjer1 has left (?).
06:23:39 -!- oklofod has joined.
06:28:18 -!- oklofod has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
06:28:51 -!- kar8nga has joined.
06:31:05 -!- augur has joined.
06:45:49 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
07:07:08 -!- tombom has joined.
07:40:36 -!- coppro has quit (Quit: I am leaving. You are about to explode.).
07:40:40 -!- Sgeo has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
07:47:03 -!- Gregor-L has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
07:50:43 -!- tombom has quit (Quit: Leaving).
07:57:56 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Quit: Leaving).
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:07:03 -!- Gregor-L has joined.
08:35:08 -!- gm|lap has joined.
09:28:34 -!- lament has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
10:01:39 -!- FireFly has joined.
10:22:38 -!- oklofod has joined.
10:23:53 <P4> oklofod: Definition: Put a 501 on, you'll know what I mean. Look good you do ? Example: C'mon Gofa, show me a move :@ Tu peux... pas SUPA MOULANT
10:24:25 <oklofod> are you a markov chain bot?
10:25:31 <P4> no, i'm just passing my supybot's urbandict reply
10:25:32 <oklofod> shit this is some sort of jesus day
10:25:46 <oklofod> can you translate that to english?
10:26:13 <P4> if you asked about polish, i'd say 'yeh', but in case of english - i'm sorry :P
10:26:37 <oklofod> i wanna shoppe, but jesus closed all the shoppes.
10:28:53 <oklofod> then my guess is "i can use some other weird language"
10:33:39 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined.
10:46:02 <AnMaster> <oklofod> are you a markov chain bot? <-- hm I was wondering that too :D
10:47:31 <AnMaster> (second section to be precise)
10:50:59 <P4> i don't :P my mom wanted to start learning E...o, but i suppose she's too old for that :P
11:04:40 <gm|lap> what's with people learning E...o?
11:04:57 <P4> they are... different :)
11:05:02 <gm|lap> also i'm working on a semi-actual programming language for R...ZZle
11:06:45 <gm|lap> e.g. for "noose": @f2\n\tgf;\n\t?cb f2; ?\n\t?cr gl ? ?cb gr ? ;\n\tgf;\n@\n\n@f1-\n\tf2;\n\t?cr gl; ?\nf1;@\n\nf1;
11:07:10 <gm|lap> the puzzle is: "BBBBBBBrBBBBBBB<\n......rbr.......\n.....rb.br......\n....rb...br.....\n...rb.....b.....\n...b......b.....\n...b......b.....\n...b......b.....\n...b......b.....\n...rb.....b.....\n....rb...br.....\n.....rBBBr......\n"
11:07:20 <gm|lap> with a "b" under the robot
11:07:28 <gm|lap> (capital letters contain stars)
11:08:24 <gm|lap> also, after adding a couple of instructions, i've worked out how it's possible to do while loops
11:08:58 <gm|lap> so there's 10 instructions total (turning + moving + painting are functions)
11:09:34 <oklofod> wait i'm confused, what did you come up with exactly?
11:09:48 <gm|lap> a programming language for robozzle
11:10:03 <gm|lap> @name ... @ defines a function
11:10:12 <gm|lap> ?cond ... ? defines an "if true" block
11:10:14 <oklofod> also you seriously underestimate the laziness of irc people if you assume someone is going to copypaste the level in a text editor to see what it looks like ;)
11:10:29 <oklofod> (and you overestimate our intelligence if you assume we wouldn't have to, i think)
11:11:03 <gm|lap> python -c 'print "BBBBBBBrBBBBBBB<\n......rbr.......\n.....rb.br......\n....rb...br.....\n...rb.....b.....\n...b......b.....\n...b......b.....\n...b......b.....\n...b......b.....\n...rb.....b.....\n....rb...br.....\n.....rBBBr......\n"'
11:11:04 <oklofod> do you compile into robozzle?
11:11:19 <gm|lap> nope, it gets compiled into a bytecode
11:11:46 <gm|lap> it's a stack-based thing
11:12:04 <oklofod> but you can already program in robozzle, aren't you just taking the fun out :P
11:12:14 <gm|lap> it actually helps with some of the harder puzzles
11:12:33 <gm|lap> also it allows for more interesting constructs
11:12:42 <gm|lap> python -c 'print "\n@l_lockup-l_lockup;@\n@l_loop = @\n@l_until_cg ~cg --; ~ @\n\n@f_swp1\n\t@f_swpc\n\t\tf_swp2;\n\t@\n\t@f_fire\n\t\tgf;gr;gr;gf;\n\t@\n@\n\n@f_swp2\n\t@f_swpc\n\t\tf_swp1;\n\t@\n\t@f_fire\n\t\tgr;gr;\n\t@\n@\n\n@f_main-\n\tgr;\n\n\tf_swp2;\n\t\n\tl_loop;=\n\t\tgf;\n\t\t?cr f_swpc; ?\n\tl_until_cg;--\n\t\n\tf_fire;\n\t\n\tl_loop;=\n\t\tgf;\n\tl_until_cg;--\n\t\n\tgr;\n\tgf;\nf_main;@\n\nf_main;\n"'
11:12:59 <oklofod> well it would help with harder puzzles if you compiled into robozzle
11:13:17 <gm|lap> = is "duplicate top of exec stack"
11:13:24 <gm|lap> and - is "pop top of exec stack"
11:14:18 <gm|lap> i DID use it for igoro's "explore the world" thing, though
11:14:23 <oklofod> nono "-" should be nop and " " should be pop!
11:14:44 <oklofod> oh can you somehow test the programs in robozzle anyway?
11:15:02 <oklofod> do you compile into ROBOZZLE bytecode?
11:15:44 <gm|lap> erm, nope, this is my own custom bytecode
11:16:12 <oklofod> but can you run the programs in robozzle?
11:16:30 <gm|lap> unless you wanted to make a hack for the JS client
11:16:54 <oklofod> well you could always compile to robozzle, if it weren't for the size limits
11:17:17 <gm|lap> also ";" is "run function named on value stack"
11:17:20 <gm|lap> or something like that
11:17:26 <gm|lap> you push a name onto the stack, not a function
11:17:46 <gm|lap> also you can redefine functions on the fly
11:18:39 <gm|lap> also what would be a good turing-complete lang to implement?
11:19:20 <oklofod> haskell is one of the prerequisites for the channel
11:19:38 <oklofod> well you could implement one of my languages?!?!?
11:19:40 <gm|lap> heh, i've been here for several years, mostly intermittently
11:19:56 <gm|lap> i'll need to go to bed soon, though
11:20:08 <oklofod> i guess just toi and clue have enough stuff online to be possible
11:20:28 <oklofod> but i'm not sure they are the best ideas
11:20:39 <oklofod> neither is particularly easy to implement
11:21:10 <gm|lap> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Clue <--?
11:21:18 <oklofod> (or at least not nearly on the level of smallfuck) (also i don't remember what smallfuck is, but i assume it's a simplified bf)
11:21:39 <oklofod> www.vjn.fi/oklopol/clue.py maybe
11:21:57 <oklofod> www.vjn.fi/oklopol/clue.rar
11:22:24 <oklofod> anyway no documentation, try toi instead unless you want to search esoteric logs for specs :P
11:22:45 <oklofod> there's an example program, this dude inferred how the language works from that
11:23:16 <gm|lap> (the interpreter does not currently implement all of Toi, and is definitely not a reference implementation, it is also incredibly space consuming, hopefully the author will fix it tomorrow)
11:23:33 <oklofod> it currently does implement all of it, or should at least
11:23:39 <gm|lap> anyways, i'm going to have to go to sleep now, gnight
11:23:53 <oklofod> i thought about fixing that, but then i thought nah
11:24:01 -!- gm|lap has quit (Quit: ilua).
11:34:22 -!- hiato has joined.
11:52:31 -!- soupdragon has joined.
11:52:40 <soupdragon> augur: 'IIRC sapir whorf is a theory for babby linguists until they figure out it's wrong.'
11:54:14 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
11:55:26 -!- pikhq has joined.
11:59:52 <soupdragon> what's xn--v8jad0f7b6z4eoa6v0hk534a7hlwhnnl8s ?
12:11:11 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
12:23:13 <oklofod> let me ask my nondeterministic turing machine
12:23:17 <Deewiant> soupdragon: Probably 僕が問題にユニコードが好きだ。
12:26:48 <soupdragon> (not that I know russian, but I guess you mean that text is what the ASCII encodes)
12:31:11 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
12:31:29 <P4> soupdragon: that is chinese, probably simplified :)
12:41:09 <P4> actually that's japanese "Unicode problem like me." :)
13:21:22 -!- soupdragon has left (?).
13:30:28 -!- oklofod has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
14:35:14 -!- pikhq has joined.
14:56:29 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined.
15:04:59 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
15:07:17 -!- MizardX has joined.
15:13:00 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
15:13:34 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined.
15:13:51 -!- soupdragon has joined.
16:06:04 -!- oerjan has joined.
16:07:46 <oerjan> <oklofod> then my guess is "i can use some other weird language"
16:09:07 <oerjan> a soupdragon _really_ shouldn't call other people food, you know
16:16:27 -!- Quadrescence has quit (Quit: omghaahhahaohwow).
16:25:58 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined.
16:31:42 -!- Tritonio_GR has joined.
16:41:34 -!- lament has joined.
16:43:49 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
16:45:26 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined.
16:55:48 -!- lament has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
16:59:00 -!- tombom has joined.
18:09:45 -!- charlls has joined.
18:10:58 -!- MizardX- has joined.
18:13:07 -!- MizardX has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
18:13:23 -!- MizardX- has changed nick to MizardX.
19:02:23 -!- augur has joined.
19:18:56 -!- kar8nga has joined.
19:40:08 -!- tombom_ has joined.
19:40:28 -!- tombom has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds).
19:46:51 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Quit: Leaving).
19:47:58 -!- Quadrescence has joined.
19:50:50 -!- charlesq__ has joined.
19:52:39 -!- charlls has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
19:55:34 -!- charlesq__ has quit (Client Quit).
20:20:28 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night).
20:39:07 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
20:39:55 -!- pikhq has joined.
20:58:44 -!- impomatic has joined.
21:08:04 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: null).
21:21:03 -!- cheater2 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
21:22:42 <hiato> Anyone wanna stubify the latest articles on the wiki?
21:31:39 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined.
21:31:41 -!- p_q has joined.
21:32:02 -!- p_q has left (?).
21:44:22 -!- maedhros777 has joined.
21:45:40 <maedhros777> Hey, does anyone have any ideas? I'm creating an esoteric language called Polynomial in which the whole program is a polynomial, statements are in the zeroes of the function. How would I factor the polynomial in the compiler such that the statements are in the correct order?
21:46:04 <maedhros777> I think I could factor it, I just don't know how to do it in order
21:47:08 <maedhros777> By the way, why does it say "I want to use an esoteric language also" in French in the topic? :)
21:47:30 <hiato> maedhros777: I'm not sure I follow you, you want to find the roots of a polynomial in 'order'?
21:47:31 <Ilari> If roots are rational, there are tricks for finding the roots...
21:48:14 <maedhros777> I know how to get the roots, I'm just wondering how the compiler would distinguish between (x + 5)(x + 3) and (x + 3)(x + 5)
21:49:08 <Ilari> (x + 5)(x + 3) = x^2 + 8x + 15 = (x + 3)(x + 5).
21:49:42 <maedhros777> But let's say (x + 5) reads in a value, and (x + 3) outputs a value. So which would the compiler know to do first?
21:49:51 <hiato> maedhros777, sort them? Unless you mean the order in which they were encoded, which is then impossible, unless you muliply them by ordered primes
21:50:29 <hiato> encode them as root 1 = ( x - 2^instr1) ( x - 3^isntr2 ) etc
21:50:56 <hiato> prime factorisation is unique
21:51:15 <Ilari> Or have the instructions cyclically repeating and execute them in increasing order.
21:51:19 <hiato> and then you know it's the one that factorises by 2 that gives you instr1
21:51:48 <hiato> (x + 5)(x + 3) -> (x+2^5)(x+3^3)=whatever
21:52:01 <hiato> but, once you have found the roots of whatever
21:52:11 -!- Sgeo has joined.
21:52:26 <hiato> and start execution with the on that is a perfect power of 2
21:52:50 <maedhros777> Wait, so are you saying that the encoding should be different?
21:52:54 <Ilari> Like if root mod n is 0 its operation A, if its 1, its operation B, etc...
21:52:56 <Sgeo> Today's not the weekend
21:53:12 <hiato> just add two more steps
21:53:14 <maedhros777> I still don't understand. Can you give an example?
21:53:35 <hiato> Ok, (x-3) == output, (x+5)== input
21:54:01 <hiato> to encode, you take the order it was in, say, outp then inp
21:54:13 <hiato> and assign primes, 2 and 3
21:54:31 <hiato> then, you do exponentation for the root values
21:55:06 <hiato> so (x+5)(x-3)-->(x+2^5)(x-3^3)
21:55:12 <hiato> then you make the polynomial
21:55:29 <maedhros777> How do you determine which bases to use for the exponentiation?
21:55:34 <hiato> then, to decode, you find the roots
21:55:41 <hiato> maedhros777: increasing primes
21:55:52 <hiato> starting rith 2 for the first instruction
21:57:01 <Ilari> Well, my idea: Assume there are 15 different instructions and you want to do 5 and then 3. Since 3 is less than 5, add 15 to get 18. Then the polynomial is (x-5)(x-18). Alternatively one could substract 15 from 5 to get (x+10)(x-3).
21:57:02 <maedhros777> Anyone know of a good method for factoring complex/imaginary zeroes?
21:57:22 <hiato> maedhros777: Newton-Rhapson for real
21:57:57 <maedhros777> Is that where p/q is the root and p is a factor of the last term and q is a factor of the first?
21:59:01 <Ilari> maedhros777: No, that's not it. But there are tricks to speed that method a lot.
21:59:50 <hiato> Ilari: I see what you're saying, but it is possible that that will give anoter root, eg, say you want -1, after -2, so you get (x-2)(x-1) -> (x-2)(x-16) -> (x-2)(x-4)(x-4) ....
22:00:26 <maedhros777> Oh wait, is the Newton-Rhapson method the one from which Newton's fractal is created?
22:01:11 -!- power has joined.
22:01:32 <Ilari> hiato: How did you get that last step? x-16 != (x-4)^2
22:02:00 <hiato> er, (x-4)(x+4), still encodes anoter instruction
22:02:22 <maedhros777> As far as I've seen, Newton's method uses an initial guess. How would you put that in a compiler?
22:02:23 <hiato> maedhros777: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton's_method
22:02:24 <Ilari> Also, x - 16 != (x - 4)(x + 4) = x^2 - 16.
22:02:37 <hiato> Ilari: aaah, good point
22:03:29 <hiato> Ilari: but I'm sure that there would be ambigous factorisations of non linear roots for that notation
22:03:59 <maedhros777> Actually, I just thought of something. How would I use hiato's method with complex zeroes?
22:04:16 <hiato> maedhros777: why encode them?
22:04:24 <Ilari> Polynomial factorization in reals/complex is always unique modulo order of factors.
22:04:25 -!- power has changed nick to nice.
22:04:53 <maedhros777> Does newton's method work with complex numbers?
22:05:09 <Ilari> maedhros777: Not very well...
22:05:31 <hiato> Ilari: (x^2-16) -> (x±4) or (x^2-1) -> (X±1) ?
22:05:48 <hiato> how will you know when to subtract
22:05:52 <Ilari> Or at least what root it converges to can jump wildly.
22:06:18 <Ilari> hiato: Well -4 executes before 4 (same with -1 and 1).
22:06:20 <maedhros777> soupdragon: Find the zeroes of a function in my compiler.
22:06:56 <maedhros777> I'm creating an esoteric language called Polynomial. The whole program is a function.
22:07:33 <hiato> Ilari: no, I'm saying, does (x²-16) give instructions ±1 or ±4? As you don't know whether 15 was added/subtracted to encode it before or after another arbitrary instruction
22:07:41 <soupdragon> you know solving quadratic equations is easy
22:07:49 <soupdragon> hey maedhros, are the roots all on the real line/
22:08:43 <hiato> Ilari: so your way is ambigious for any partial (and thus any at all) factorisation
22:10:18 <soupdragon> if the roots of a polynomial are t1,t2,..,tn then the polynomial (x-t1)(x-t2)...(x-tn) = x^n +/- (t1 + t2 + ... + tn)x^(n-1) + ... +/- (t1 t2 ... tn)
22:10:49 <soupdragon> N(t1 t2 ... tn) = N(t1) N(t2) ... N(tn) hm
22:11:21 <soupdragon> How can we put a circle around the roots of a polynomial?
22:11:29 <hiato> soupdragon: yes, but still possible if he implements it well
22:12:14 <hiato> soupdragon: so far as I understand, that will be solved by virtue of the roots only encoding a finite set of instructions
22:12:59 <hiato> Ok, well there you have it
22:13:08 <soupdragon> if it is integers this makes the problem much easier
22:13:22 <soupdragon> you could try things like rational roots I guess
22:13:28 -!- nice has left (?).
22:14:09 <hiato> soupdragon, heh, naah, we manually encode the polynomials, so no need to check for anything
22:14:14 <soupdragon> for a really crude first approach you could probably just grab SWI prolog and write (x-t1)*...*(x-tn) #= input and it'll solve for t1,t2...
22:14:39 <soupdragon> they arent' written in the form 6x^4 - 7x^3 + ..?
22:14:50 -!- dougx has joined.
22:15:49 <hiato> soupdragon, it let's you unambigiously determine the order of encoding
22:16:08 <soupdragon> what is an example input to the program?
22:16:13 -!- maedhros777 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
22:16:19 <hiato> The idea was that you take some set of integers and encode them as roots of a olynomial
22:16:47 <hiato> that set being the instructions, of whatever meaning
22:17:26 <soupdragon> man that guy has no idea what he is doing
22:17:50 <hiato> I have a vague one
22:17:52 <soupdragon> seemed to describe about 20 different situations
22:18:34 <hiato> but, I think I know what he was trying, and I think I gave him a solution thatworks, but I doubt he can use it
22:19:10 <hiato> 22:54 < maedhros777> I just need to write a compiler now.
22:21:06 * Sgeo wonders if it would be possible to get Dwarf Fortress to work on Android
22:22:01 * soupdragon thinks playing dwarf fortress is harder than being NASA mission control
22:22:33 * hiato would name his children Sgeo if he found a way
22:30:21 * Sgeo sends a message to his professor saying that, while my script wasn't perfect, it's far better than the professor's answer.
22:34:12 <Sgeo> http://ideone.com/u582h
22:36:25 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
22:36:49 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined.
22:40:48 -!- gm|lap has joined.
22:43:25 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.9/20100315083431]).
22:55:17 -!- tombom_ has quit (Quit: Leaving).
22:59:20 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
23:08:26 -!- pikhq has joined.
23:10:50 <pikhq> My Internet connection hates rain.
23:11:37 -!- hiato has quit (Quit: underflow).
23:11:57 -!- dougx has left (?).
23:12:27 * Sgeo hates people with crappy Internet connections.
23:12:47 -!- maedhros777 has joined.
23:13:27 <maedhros777> Oh yeah, sorry for leaving without answering your question, soupdragon
23:14:14 <maedhros777> An example program would be zeroes of 72 and i
23:14:26 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
23:14:52 <soupdragon> so the input would be x^2 - (72+i)x + 72i = 0?
23:15:13 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: Operation timed out).
23:15:42 -!- pikhq has joined.
23:16:08 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined.
23:18:03 <soupdragon> but why is it a cubic? I mean that has 3 roots
23:18:07 <pikhq> This darned thing seems to be obsessed with dropping connection.
23:18:37 <pikhq> And I am having absurd difficulty getting a single freaking webpage to load. :(
23:18:59 <maedhros777> Complex zeroes of the form a + bi are only considered by the absolute value of b
23:19:49 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
23:19:50 <maedhros777> I have to go now, sorry to leave you devastated :)
23:20:03 -!- maedhros777 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
23:20:52 -!- cheater2 has joined.
23:20:58 -!- gm|lap has quit (Quit: ilua).
23:22:19 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
23:26:11 -!- Oranjer has joined.
23:51:45 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Operation timed out).
23:52:38 -!- coppro has joined.
23:52:53 <soupdragon> quantum computers can do linear search in O(sqrt(n))
23:54:32 -!- Sgeo has joined.
23:57:38 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
23:58:57 -!- maedhros777 has joined.
23:59:35 <maedhros777> I've just been wondering -- are there any esoteric or real programming languages in another language (besides English)?
23:59:55 <maedhros777> A programming language in another language :)