< 1270080008 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you're doomed. DOOMED! < 1270080028 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::---------------------------------------------------------------------------------O < 1270080051 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as would anyone with that kind of nose, mind you < 1270080799 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1270080914 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: ok heres the challenge < 1270080970 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will design a trivial little universe, with very simple physics, and a small finite number of universe configurations < 1270081149 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ill provide you with causal graphs of these configurations and its your job to come up with a description of the physics governing this little universe < 1270081158 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hows that sound? < 1270081291 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds fun. < 1270081518 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1270081855 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION still doesn't see why he shouldn't switch to Haskell for all his needs < 1270081904 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because you should. < 1270081924 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because python is better < 1270081938 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forM_ somelist $ \item -> do < 1270081941 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has its own charm < 1270081966 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if by charm you mean it looks ugly! < 1270081990 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol < 1270081997 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not some magic syntax thing < 1270082021 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unlike for/foreach in just about every other language < 1270082022 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, if/then/else *is* magic syntax, but it shouldn't be < 1270082029 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: forM_ is quite a bit more general, also. < 1270082208 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know what I don't like? The emphasis that seems to need to be placed on efficiency < 1270082237 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The trivial quicksort that everyone talks about is apparently the wrong way to do it do to efficiency concerns, or something < 1270082249 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo -- quicksort sucks < 1270082264 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who needs to sort lists ? < 1270082271 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously it's just a waste fo time < 1270082276 0 :charlls!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Saliendo < 1270082296 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who even needs lists < 1270082313 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you say that about every algorithm where the trivial implementation is inefficient? < 1270082323 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bet i could live for a year without a list of any kind < 1270082346 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1270082400 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo most everything in haskell is inefficent < 1270082426 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell sucks < 1270082438 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate haskell < 1270082443 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1270082447 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OOP is the way < 1270082495 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1270082503 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::[ < 1270082538 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders how you'd write a NetHack-like game in Haskell < 1270082540 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxes are outdated. < 1270082544 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell is for dorks who think they're nerds < 1270082544 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1270082555 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo easy way to find out is to do it! < 1270082712 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no nice way to use two different types of STRefs in a single ST monad ins.. whatever it's called, is there? < 1270082727 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1270082761 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um what do you mean by two different types of STRefs? < 1270082787 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An STRef that holds an Int and an STRef that holds a String, for instance < 1270082810 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course you can. excuse me while i look it up... < 1270083006 0 :Slereah!~Slereah@ANantes-259-1-102-143.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1270083110 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Control.Monad.ST; import Data.STref; main = runST $ do sr <- newSTRef "1"; nr <- newSTRef 2; writeSTRef sr "n is "; writeSTRef nr 3; s <- readSTRef sr; n <- readSTRef nr; return (s ++ show n) < 1270083141 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Control.Monad.ST; import Data.STRef; main = runST $ do sr <- newSTRef "1"; nr <- newSTRef 2; writeSTRef sr "n is "; writeSTRef nr 3; s <- readSTRef sr; n <- readSTRef nr; return (s ++ show n) < 1270083187 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Control.Monad.ST; import Data.STRef; main = runST $ do sr <- newSTRef "1"; nr <- newSTRef 2; writeSTRef sr "n is "; writeSTRef nr 3; s <- readSTRef sr; n <- readSTRef nr; return (putStrLn $ s ++ show n) < 1270083190 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n is 3 < 1270083208 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay just three attempts needed < 1270083280 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell "n is 3" < 1270083281 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"n is 3" < 1270083308 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION suddenly recalls that it was not necessarily safe to use $ with runST < 1270083314 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :runST? < 1270083337 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything is inefficient in languages other than bits. < 1270083343 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the function to run a command in the ST monad < 1270083347 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: runST :: St a -> a < 1270083353 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: no! < 1270083355 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. ST a -> a. < 1270083365 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait. < 1270083367 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's ST. < 1270083368 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses type magic < 1270083393 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that type magic means it has varied whether you could use it with $ < 1270083393 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1270083405 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :runST :: (forall s. ST s a) -> a < 1270083417 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh. Right. < 1270083422 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1270083426 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ST s a < 1270083429 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's unusual. < 1270083442 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still confused about the forall. I know why it's there, but not what it oes < 1270083443 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*does < 1270083531 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose it ensures that two different invocations of runST can never know that they have the same s, and so are type incompatible and not confused < 1270083557 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't teach me what forall. is supposed to mean < 1270083573 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: No, forall is not uniqueness typing. < 1270083585 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i didn't say that < 1270083594 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s is a type, not a value < 1270083597 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is Lady Gaga behind this window < 1270083632 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: the thing passed to runST must be a value that is polymorphic for _all_ possible s < 1270083655 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmkay. < 1270083766 0 :Slereah!~Slereah@ANantes-259-1-2-166.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1270083783 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I get it. < 1270083796 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1270083834 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "s" must inherently come from runST, and cannot come from anywhere else, because of that forall. So, runST is pure. < 1270083847 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of being unsafePerformIO. < 1270083959 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: afaict the ability to use different types for your STRef's in an ST invocation is precisely how ST _differs_ from State. if you had only one type you would be able to use State with a map or something instead to simulate your refs. but ST with several types cannot be implemented in pure haskell. < 1270084002 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION still doesn't grok how State is implemented in pure Haskell < 1270084021 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well at least you can read the definition < 1270084040 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The State monad simply keeps track of a single value called a "state" and threads that around. < 1270084063 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype State s a = State { runState :: s -> (a, s) } < 1270084064 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does get get a hold of that thread, if it's type is State a? < 1270084090 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :State s a. < 1270084102 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You pass runState the initial state. < 1270084128 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And "modification" of the state is actually replacing the state with an entirely different one. < 1270084143 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: compiler may freely replace it with actual modification at will) < 1270084159 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And how is get defined, exactly? < 1270084179 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance MonadState s (State s) where get = State $ \s -> (s, s) put s = State $ \_ -> ((), s) < 1270084193 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(line breaks got elided) < 1270084209 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance MonadState s (State s) where get = State $ \s -> (s, s); put s = State $ \_ -> ((), s) < 1270084262 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION needs a tutorial < 1270084288 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so get is a State s s value that takes the threaded state and uses it _both_ for the returned value and the next threaded state < 1270084293 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: are those supposed to be uncurried? < 1270084310 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get takes no arguments < 1270084336 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(unless you unwrap the type first) < 1270084342 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does the State function do? < 1270084350 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a constructor < 1270084356 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that mich < 1270084357 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*much < 1270084363 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... That's what it does. < 1270084369 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It constructs a new value. < 1270084406 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it builds an action in the State monad from a function describing how the threads the state and produces a result < 1270084422 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So get is something that would have >>= before it? < 1270084429 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As opposed to the more usual >>? < 1270084442 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, no < 1270084444 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from type, an action in the State monad _is_ just such a function < 1270084461 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, get has no function arguments as an action < 1270084470 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :put, on the other hand, does < 1270084504 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So get just gives the monad a function to execute? < 1270084507 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :put s is an action that ignores the old state and uses s as the new one < 1270084533 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: _every_ State monad action is just a function wrapped in a State constructor < 1270084578 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get, put s, etc. < 1270084650 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and runState does nothing other than unwrap that constructor again. it's there for type purposes only. < 1270084763 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1270085671 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1270086445 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep seeing OCaml being suggested as a stepping stone to Haskell. < 1270086454 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does that mean for me, OCaml would be a step backwardsa? < 1270086457 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*backwards? < 1270086543 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ocaml does have some interesting features not in haskell < 1270086598 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like an object system but still with type inference, and an ML-like module system with functors. and better records (haskell's are generally admitted to be awful) < 1270086701 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it might be good to take a look at it still < 1270086741 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shouldn't be looking at anything but C# right now < 1270086747 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course for me ocaml _was_ a stepping stone to haskell, so i haven't used it for years < 1270086767 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might look at F# which i hear is descended from ocaml < 1270086796 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i also think it lacks some of those interesting features < 1270086810 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while being .NET compatible < 1270086901 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo ugh no way < 1270086922 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax, project, with a deadline tomorrow < 1270086930 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haven't done a single line of code for it today < 1270086933 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@00:47 < Sgeo> Does that mean for me, OCaml would be a step backwardsa? < 1270087082 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, I tell my dad that there are people online much smarter than me, and he doesn't believe me < 1270087753 0 :mibygl!~62d188c5@gateway/web/freenode/x-imrziudtvfxjavvy JOIN :#esoteric < 1270088341 0 :Halph!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1270088391 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1270088397 0 :Halph!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :coppro < 1270088469 0 :cheater2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1270088501 0 :cheater2!~cheater@ip-80-226-31-71.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1270089603 0 :cal153!~cal@c-69-181-46-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1270090046 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1270090900 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Haskell, there always seems to be the Haskell way, and the fast way < 1270090916 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1270090935 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hear there also an intersection, known as fusion :) < 1270090939 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's really starting to get on my nerves, tbh < 1270090942 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*+is < 1270090960 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should be thinking in C# right now < 1270091458 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1270091458 0 :clog!~nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1270091904 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1270091925 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heydo. < 1270091966 0 :mibygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wayat? Wayat? Wayat? Wayat? < 1270091974 0 :mibygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Daygo! Daygo! Daygo! Daygo! < 1270093394 0 :mibygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1270094294 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1270094357 0 :Asztal!~asztal@host86-155-75-239.range86-155.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1270094377 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1270094396 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has had an incredibly unproductive day today < 1270095228 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1270095278 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION too < 1270095747 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mibygl = uorygl? < 1270095958 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jes. < 1270095974 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't know how to say yes in Lojban, so I said it in Esperanto) < 1270096349 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION suggests you learn Japanese < 1270096459 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My computer professor seems to think I know a lot of programming languages < 1270096468 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION really only knows most on a superficial level < 1270096819 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo every time I have to hand in computer work I get strange compliments about how advanced it is .. even when I try not to bed < 1270096822 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :be* < 1270096842 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would you bother trying not to be advanced? < 1270096934 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I don\t like it when they tell me that :< < 1270097065 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION loves being way ahead of everyone else < 1270097090 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't love the fact that there's a deadline TOMORROW, it's almost midnight, and I haven't done a single worthwhile thing today.l < 1270097110 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the assignment? < 1270097125 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, project that I've been talking about for the past few months < 1270097131 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1270097140 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assume I'm stupid < 1270097143 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and haven't paid attention < 1270097164 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, game that I'm making with a few other people [only one other programmer] < 1270097176 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's on the AW platform, so it's not as much work as it sounds, but still < 1270097202 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The um.. financer, I guess, is giving us some stuff, but wants to see results < 1270097204 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the deadline the due date, or a partway-through thing < 1270097214 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :partway-through < 1270097218 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1270097223 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I presume you aren't there yet? < 1270097249 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fairly close, but if the person's expecting 100%, it's not happening < 1270097288 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways, I'm going to restart the computer, and hopefully that will leave a clean slate to let me focus < 1270097389 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me give you a piece of advice < 1270097395 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1270097405 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do not turn on IRC when you reboot, unless its necessary for your work < 1270097410 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it is, join only the necessary channesl < 1270097412 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*channels < 1270097455 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1270097567 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1270097909 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1270097944 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1270098193 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1270099285 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, who wants to play with universes? :) < 1270099358 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I tend to seek 12 different tutorials for things < 1270099401 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I've noticed something: I can accept learning a language because I have to. Such languages [C#, LSL] are treated as tools < 1270099434 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other languages [Python, Ruby, Haskell, Scheme], it feels like they're all competing for my affection. It's as though I'll only allow myself to truly love one language. < 1270099968 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :This topic was correct once | Last topic change: 0 Anno Domini | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1270100258 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If Haskell can't do state, then surely it isn't Turing Complete? < 1270100301 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo, it can simulate state! < 1270100309 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the lambda calculus can! < 1270100323 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does Calculus have to do with anything? < 1270100340 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It can do more than simulate state. < 1270100353 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ST is entirely imperative. It is also entirely pure. < 1270100354 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/ctcp pikhq time < 1270100355 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1270100366 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: uh, please tell me that you haven't been hanging out in here for months while never once hearing of lambda calculus < 1270100370 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought Haskell can't do imperative < 1270100370 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No joke. < 1270100378 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambda calculus < 1270100380 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Ah*. Right. < 1270100384 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION skips forward < 1270100393 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not calculus as in newton/leibniz < 1270100395 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a "calculus" is a means of calculating something. < 1270100400 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Well, you see, it only pretends to. With this "monad" bullshit. < 1270100409 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Named after Monad Leibniz. < 1270100440 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-140-214.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1270100484 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, this Monad fellow.. he invented math and computers? < 1270100488 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Used as follows: let Monad M = new template> M(this); M.bind.return.imperative( // What follows is C++ code. < 1270100509 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The syntax was chosen, of course, to be compatible with C++'s most brilliant design principles. < 1270100527 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is SGEO being full of shit? XD < 1270100532 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, also. What follows after "//" is not a comment. < 1270100540 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: The day is most certainly not 4-01. < 1270100551 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And such a day has in no way any significance. < 1270100581 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i see yes < 1270100583 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well! one never knows < 1270100598 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont know Sgeo much < 1270100613 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i also dont participate in april fools, so it never crosses my mind < 1270100654 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In all seriousness, there should be an esolang based on pikhq's "code" < 1270100671 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[In all full seriousness, I always say that there should be an esolang] < 1270100677 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried five fucking different floppy drives < 1270100681 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not a single one worked < 1270100702 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION misread that as "fucking five". For some reason, AFD is making my mind act drunk < 1270100702 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. The SCP foundation has had a breech. It would seem that today is a good day to die. < 1270101352 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, coppro, I've been here for years < 1270101365 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At the latest, since late 2007, when I got started on PSOX < 1270101699 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1270101823 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1270102249 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkcd.com < 1270102254 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not working for me in Chrome, but still < 1270102266 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-140-214.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1270102406 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1270102579 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't work in Firefox. < 1270102605 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :works for me < 1270102617 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1270103226 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is doing April Fool's stuff instead of trying to get this stuff done :( < 1270103281 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: /quit, close your browser, reopen your browser, open exactly those pages which are required for your work < 1270103292 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not going to /quit < 1270103311 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need people to talk to < 1270103342 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then /part out of every channel except the ones related to your work < 1270103349 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do not need people to converse with casually < 1270103351 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to work < 1270103470 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not necessarily. < 1270103505 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I talk to you while I work? < 1270103527 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just had a semi-revelation: I don't need to actually have the bot do anything for this part < 1270103531 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's pure in-AW code < 1270103543 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except for persisting it, but that could be a separate part of the bot < 1270104196 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION feels like he's cutting corners by doing this < 1270104217 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I did kind of take pikhq's statement as permission to talk casually in here < 1270104345 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shruggeth < 1270104835 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For all I know, I have nothing to do, and the guy will be satisfied as-is < 1270104846 0 :metaphlex!~user@m295e36d0.tmodns.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1270105430 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1270105444 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should at least add the mechanism for the bot to "click" items < 1270105510 0 :metaphlex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1270105564 0 :rapido!~robbert@ip545144bf.direct-adsl.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1270105646 0 :rapido!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1270106103 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides that he'll just write a report on the state of the bot, then go to sleep < 1270107561 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@91.35.72-86.rev.gaoland.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1270108164 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1270108203 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I will do anything (almost) for a new router. < 1270108799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1270108800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1270109370 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1270109917 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah! This small drop of code worked perfectly the first time! < 1270110376 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if that sale was real or if I'm going to get an April Fools' package < 1270110827 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION writes a "State of the Bot Address" < 1270110856 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hopes that this is enough to convince the person funding this that enough was done so far < 1270110945 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :youtube wins the day < 1270110947 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WccS6q8Mo-U&feature=channel&textp=fool < 1270111032 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :flip=1 no longer works? < 1270111034 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1270111065 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :flip=1? < 1270111089 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, what was the thing to flip it? < 1270111096 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last year or something < 1270111165 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google.com < 1270111236 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're reviving Virgle < 1270111329 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the are? < 1270111330 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see it < 1270111356 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"And Project Virgle, our co-venture with Richard Branson and Virgin to launch the first permanent human colony on Mars, will henceforth be known as Project Vireka." < 1270111392 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2010/04/different-kind-of-company-name.html < 1270111473 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the death of star ratings on YouTube for real or Apr1st? < 1270111521 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unknown < 1270111544 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :signs point to permanent < 1270111555 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though one can never tell with Google < 1270111592 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google tends to be more "nope, it wasn't April 1st joke after all" < 1270111599 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again, that's coming from one data point < 1270111654 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1270111661 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also like the units of measure on the search page < 1270111697 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe someone was using that information for something important! And now they just screw it up? < 1270111720 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Whatever the outcome, the conclusion was clear: we aren't in Google anymore." < 1270111744 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol; I think I missed that < 1270111934 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was in the blog post I just linked < 1270112068 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, I know, I read it before, and failed to notice that line < 1270112096 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, this "wear blue for autism on April 2nd" stuff is backed by racing4autism, which links to Autism Speaks and Generation Rescue < 1270112252 0 :lereah_!~lereah@nanpc301.in2p3.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1270114133 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude < 1270114136 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1270114151 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the youtube stuff is awesome < 1270114206 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like the cosmonauty textp XD < 1270114356 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1270114454 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ascii youtube video thing has actually been around a while < 1270114460 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was some other site that would do it < 1270114469 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like that youtube brought it in < 1270114583 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the DIY folks, it's pretty much always been possible to just plug a youtube get_video URL into mplayer, and use either the aalib or libcaca text-based video-out drivers. < 1270114584 0 :myndzi\!myndzi@tengototen.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1270114754 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also for some reason on this work-workstation there's no TEXTp mode visible. Aw. < 1270114786 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1270117875 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mynzλ < 1270117879 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm < 1270117882 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzλ < 1270118912 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does libcaca support 256-color mode? :-) < 1270119000 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@athedsl-256698.home.otenet.gr JOIN :#esoteric < 1270119039 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: I have a feeling it does, but I'm not completely certain. < 1270119090 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: The web page just says "2048 available colours (some devices can only handle 16)". (I'm not sure where they have 2k colours... maybe using the "direct" X11 output, I think it had one too.) < 1270119110 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1270119128 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, there's ncurses, slang, x11 and gl drivers in it. < 1270119375 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl@libcaca over gl < 1270119481 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All kinds of "insane transports" and "insane platforms" are fun to do as an joke... < 1270119585 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't done any really crazy combos... I think the craziest was SSH inside SSH... < 1270119632 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember running X11 over aalib once, don't recall what the middle layer that made that possible was though. < 1270119649 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@athedsl-256698.home.otenet.gr JOIN :#esoteric < 1270119699 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once got Quake II using aalib by mistake... < 1270119730 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1270119822 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tritonio doesn't like that. < 1270119920 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(SDL autofallbacks video drivers...) < 1270119923 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ascii-Quake never was much fun, but we spent a while playing networked 0verkill -- http://artax.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~brain/0verkill/ -- which was pretty fun for a while. < 1270120544 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1270120589 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@athedsl-256698.home.otenet.gr JOIN :#esoteric < 1270123875 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1270124399 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@athedsl-256698.home.otenet.gr JOIN :#esoteric < 1270124665 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1270124707 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit and here i thought the topic would be correct today :( < 1270124739 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :come to think of it, this might not be the day to expect such a thing < 1270125626 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Coyote finally caught me < 1270125726 0 :oklopol!~oklopol@a91-153-117-208.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1270130708 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1270131993 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1270132016 0 :Deewiant!~deewiant@kekkonen.cs.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1270134234 0 :oklofok!~oklopol@a91-153-122-35.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1270134278 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1270135736 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1270136191 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1270136876 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1270137211 0 :MigoMipo!~migomipo@84-217-11-163.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1270137323 0 :charlls!~charlls@201.226.222.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1270137532 0 :lereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1270138343 0 :Asztal!~asztal@host86-155-75-239.range86-155.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1270139185 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1270139999 0 :oklopol!~oklopol@a91-153-117-208.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1270140357 0 :oklofok!~oklopol@a91-153-122-35.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1270140445 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1270140908 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~nice@p5B132041.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1270140921 0 :cheater2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1270141069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm xkcd did a very nice thing for today < 1270141073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :needs javascript though < 1270141251 0 :cheater2!~cheater@ip-80-226-215-13.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1270141277 0 :cheater2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1270141295 0 :cheater2!~cheater@ip-80-226-215-13.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1270141464 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1270141959 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1270143853 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1270144229 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah at the units in google's search result < 1270144255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Results 1 - 10 of about 1,810,000,000 for google. (0.14e+43 Planck times) < 1270144682 0 :cal153!~cal@c-69-181-46-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1270144717 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1270144794 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@91.35.72-86.rev.gaoland.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1270144816 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not here < 1270144823 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Must be a google US exclusive prank < 1270144826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah, only on google.com < 1270144828 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not on google.se < 1270144835 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or .fr < 1270144836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah, but I use google.com normally < 1270144842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easy to switch though < 1270144851 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do too, but it switches automatically to .fr < 1270144852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a link near the bottom of the front page < 1270144857 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some people made the "Check for brainwave activity" code as short as 10 bytes in shell scripts, I cannot quite figure it out but I did reduce it to 12 bytes. After 10 days I can figure out what it is < 1270144861 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and did you see xkcd < 1270144861 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate it when softwares try to second guess me < 1270144864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkcd's shell < 1270144866 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1270144868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite nice < 1270144869 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also 4chan < 1270144873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guest@xkcd:/$ date < 1270144873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :March 32nd < 1270144873 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :POST TO FACEBOOK < 1270144882 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate april fool < 1270144887 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's always so stupid < 1270144891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah, ? < 1270144894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about 4chan < 1270144922 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a "post to facebook" option on the post window for april fool < 1270144936 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah, oh and maps.google.com.au gives directions in AU slang < 1270144937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like: < 1270144952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Turn a smidge left when you get to South Western Mwy < 1270144953 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ya might have to cough up some cash along here" < 1270144959 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crikey! < 1270144965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah, :D < 1270144978 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah, still waiting for the RFC < 1270145062 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RFC? < 1270145068 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will there be a fool RFC this year? < 1270145087 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Roman Fatholic church? < 1270145088 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will INTERCAL be released this year? < 1270145107 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't it already? < 1270145113 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also what is RFC < 1270145136 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RFC is short for "Request For Comment" < 1270145161 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is usually a specification for some internet protocol or something like that. But it can sometimes describe other stuff, too < 1270145252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there is usually joke ones on 1 April < 1270145263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah, are you serious about never having heard about RFCs? < 1270145277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the IRC RFC, 14xx (forgot the last two digits) < 1270145328 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah, IP, TCP, HTTP and pretty much every other common non-vendor-specific protocol is specified in one (or more) RFC(s) < 1270145473 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pulled a fax earlier, maybe Slereah's doing the same? < 1270145638 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello everyone, this morning i woke up to find i had turned into seven monkeys < 1270145665 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and only three of those monkeys were virgins < 1270145976 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :congrats, you're 4/7 less of a virgin than before < 1270146016 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, this moring I woke up to find out that my bed was on the ceiling < 1270146027 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I had eight eyes, just like my D&D character does < 1270146036 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then I realized I was still sleeping < 1270146058 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: i can't do the math do you mean i was a virgin before or that i wasn't or what? < 1270146063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Sgeo pulled a fax earlier, maybe Slereah's doing the same? < 1270146066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean? < 1270146069 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm seven monkeys you see < 1270146081 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, how many were using typewriters? < 1270146085 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, I convinced at least two people that I was more of an idiot than I am < 1270146090 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's referring to the time fax said she didn't like haskell < 1270146097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, this is of uttermost importance! < 1270146098 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1270146104 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the time she said she doesn't know haskell < 1270146126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, wow. That would be like at absolute zero then? < 1270146133 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION growls < 1270146134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sorry, couldn't resist) < 1270146138 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, today is 1st of april, which means we can all lie to each other < 1270146152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, why should I trust that? < 1270146159 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm really monkeys < 1270146165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, also it is March 32 < 1270146168 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but today is really the 1st of april < 1270146168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not 1 April < 1270146183 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, go to xkcd and type date into the javascript shell on that page < 1270146186 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1270146187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, it must be correct < 1270146200 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using xkcd in an argument instantly disqualifies you < 1270146202 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from life < 1270146224 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Match 32? My calendar says it's Arch 42 and a half. < 1270146251 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, har. But I quite liked his unix like shell that he remade the front page into today < 1270146266 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has an IRC client < 1270146270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, what does? < 1270146275 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unixkcd < 1270146280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh didn't notice < 1270146285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, what network does it go to? < 1270146288 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Foonetic < 1270146298 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Type irc AnMaster or something < 1270146311 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think xkcd should stick with this theme forever. < 1270146313 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i rather like it < 1270146315 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, `find kitten` is fun < 1270146319 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just tried the xkcd shell. I typed "pwd" and it responded with "You are in a maze of twisty passages, all alike." < 1270146350 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sudo apt-get upgrade < 1270146427 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, saw that < 1270146452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just tells you everything is fine or something (forgot exact message) < 1270146480 0 :cheater2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1270146535 0 :cheater2!~cheater@ip-80-226-232-75.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1270146553 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, not if you're using Firefox < 3, or IE < 1270146604 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, look < 1270146721 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, I'm using firefox 3.6 < 1270146733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, and I doubt my other installed browsers could check it < 1270146750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because they are text only and don't support javascript) < 1270146755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, as for "look" yes I saw that < 1270146772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trivial to solve that once you realised that you were already carrying the lamp < 1270146832 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1270146930 0 :cheater2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1270147181 0 :cheater2!~cheater@ip-80-226-203-237.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1270147422 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1270147669 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1270148667 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1270148771 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1270148941 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1270149011 0 :adam_d!~Adam@client-86-29-245-7.pete.adsl.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1270149526 0 :cheater2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1270149765 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@athedsl-253510.home.otenet.gr JOIN :#esoteric < 1270149855 0 :cheater2!~cheater@ip-80-226-227-131.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1270150611 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I write a Linux distribution I will have to do some things like, "wg" is like "wget -O -", "e" is "echo", "en" is like "echo" but each parameter is output to a separate line, and so on < 1270151038 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should also do it so that if the window manager's key is pushed and released by itself, it will show/hide mouse pointer (moving the mouse also shows the pointer) < 1270151136 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So essentially, you think Linux would be better if it was cryptically difficult to use. < 1270151159 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those are of great confusion. < 1270151168 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, this is how I would make it, anyways. There would be more two letter commands and one letter commands, for one thing. < 1270151172 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I note that I only recently started using a window manager that reparents. < 1270151191 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reparent? < 1270151200 0 :oklopol!~oklopol@a91-153-122-35.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1270151206 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would probably write a new shell, too, with some new features and some removed, and so on < 1270151212 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Most window managers reparent windows so they can draw title bars. < 1270151220 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And window borders. < 1270151299 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ratpoison leaves the parent as root, because who needs graphics? < 1270151306 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not why you're running X, is it, silly? < 1270151346 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1270151363 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I also have to make it be: All window manager's functions are accessed with the window manager's key and combination with keyboard and/or mouse, except for clicking the title bar and task bar, which can be done without. Which key is the window manager's key could be configured, and can be indicated "wm-" in emacs notation < 1270151380 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go ahead < 1270151397 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, wm-t could show/hide taskbar and wm-tab could switch next window, and so on, like that. < 1270151412 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should hide the title-bar for maximized windows, so therefore I will make it to do tha. < 1270151436 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: That sort of thing is fairly common. I assume you'd go a bit further in that you would make *all* functionality keyboard-accessible, which few WMs use, but... Yeah. < 1270151450 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could quite reasonably just do a few minor patches against Fluxbox for that. < 1270151503 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, ake *all* functionality keyboard-accessible. Although, a few things would work with the mouse also because some things might work better with it, for example if you want to size/move a window or select window or stuff graphically (there is three mouse buttons, and also modifier keys, so there is many combinations) < 1270151579 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1270151579 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As I said, fairly reasonable, and it would probably not take much work to add to Fluxbox. < 1270151587 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, ALT+mouse won't drag a window unless ALT is the window manager's key. And even if it is, you have to use the middle mouse button. < 1270151603 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because wm key + left mouse button would be used to resize windows instead. < 1270151651 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1270151757 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We don't need any fancy gradient title-bars and 3-D dialog boxes and stuff like that. We don't need any icons or buttons on the title-bar either, the mouse already has three buttons! < 1270151830 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is putting his project away for the rest of today, and all of tomorrow  < 1270151831 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1270152099 0 :hiato!~fdulu@41-132-216-79.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1270152119 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Many two-letter and one-letter command names are not used yet in UNIX, and some things I don't agree how they work (such as wget sending output to the file instead of to stdout, all programs should receive their input from stdin and send their output to stdout, and then you can use < > to redirect to files or | to pipes to other programs) < 1270152192 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: rant? :P < 1270152759 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if "pm" is the package manager, you could install an external package with "wg http://example.org/pm/web-browser | pm" or something like that. < 1270152839 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, probably more like: wg http://example.org/pm/web-browser | s pm -I < 1270152916 0 :adam_d_!~Adam@client-86-27-21-134.glfd.adsl.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1270153088 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1270153205 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When using a package manager, the path to the install files should be send to stdout and the status information to stderr < 1270153231 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y'know what would be nice? A soundfont for strings that didn't suck UTTERLY. < 1270153281 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those exist < 1270153285 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somewhere over the rainbow < 1270153308 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lies. < 1270153311 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Filthy, disgusting lies. < 1270153329 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :q: < 1270153399 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: You've been a wonderful audience < 1270153412 0 :ehirdiphone!~ehirdipho@82.132.139.15 JOIN :#esoteric < 1270153419 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lo. < 1270153427 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, what would be really wonderful is a string quartet that would play what I wanted them to for no money :P < 1270153485 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So hey, I've been discharged from the unit. After Wednesday's meeting they decided they could find no problem and that my admission was an error. < 1270153490 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::))))))) < 1270153510 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...APRIL FOOLS HAHAHAHA :| < 1270153513 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi ehirdiphone. I wish I was certain that that wasn't.. yeah < 1270153583 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1270153629 0 :dougx!~dougx@vc-41-29-92-178.umts.vodacom.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1270153656 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if xkcd.com works on the iphone < 1270153663 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm too tired to even go on the computer. Tomorrow. < 1270153699 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't check xkcd.com on the iPhone? < 1270153712 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you'll have three days of me. < 1270153722 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Do http:// and maybe < 1270153731 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://xkcd.com < 1270153741 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate xkcd, though < 1270153766 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not talking about the comic < 1270153771 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, everything works on the iPhone. Except Flash. < 1270153855 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just on GSM. It does not load. < 1270153871 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fast enough for IRC, though. < 1270153890 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is a Reddit admin! < 1270153905 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In some dubreddit < 1270153911 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Subreddit < 1270153917 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, globally [mods are what's by subreddit, btw] < 1270153932 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, since when? < 1270153938 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everybody is, since today < 1270153951 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And are they as numerous as WP admins? < 1270154013 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, why can't I upvote to infinity anymore? < 1270154023 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I don't have the admin thing active < 1270154050 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should have known: I wondered why I never saw his posts or comments, if he is so prominent. < 1270154059 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bloomin' Fools. < 1270154101 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Daiyen fooles. < 1270154117 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fooels* < 1270154128 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YouTube has a new TEXTp mode < 1270154138 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unavailable for me < 1270154156 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TEXTp? < 1270154160 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://youtube-global.blogspot.com/2010/03/textp-saves-youtube-bandwidth-money.html < 1270154230 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, Epigram 2 was released! < 1270154252 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Epigram programming language? < 1270154479 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The next feature they need to add is the one to automatically print out transcripts of videos, without requiring Flash < 1270154504 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they had that feature I would use it. < 1270154606 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes; and proof assistant. The development of its second version is going at a leisurely pace. < 1270154846 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The iPhone needs TeX. < 1270154852 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Get Colloquy for iPhone! http://mobile.colloquy.info < 1270154873 0 :ehirdiphone!~ehirdipho@82.132.139.68 JOIN :#esoteric < 1270154898 0 :rodgort!~rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1270154901 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With some sort of drawing support, so I can write stuff and have it unicodified. < 1270154962 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the iphone needs to be softer and more porous < 1270154987 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a more comfortable tactile experience and better retention of fecal matter < 1270155004 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Saw some article about "Youngest iPhone developer?" Apparently the person's 14 < 1270155015 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somehow, I don't think that sort of thing impresses ehirdiphone < 1270155043 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HE CODES FOR THE IPHOME??????22221 < 1270155050 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ifoam < 1270155087 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inductive setoid : * := over : Pi (A:*). Pi (R:BinaryRelation A). setoid < 1270155090 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after extensive experimentation, i have to say i still find regular 2-ply paper preferrable to any version of the iPhone < 1270155182 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inductive setoidV : * -> * -> * := mask : Pi (A:*). Pi (R:BinaryRelation A). A -> setoidV A R < 1270155278 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Function setoidT : Pi (S:setoid). * := match S with over A R => setoidV A R end. < 1270155315 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ implicit argument jiggery: < 1270155381 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Type rational : * := setoidT (over (natural x natural) (too lazy)) < 1270155383 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: Coincidentally, the N900 repository has texlive. < 1270155393 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1270155408 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't imagine it being very friendly to use. < 1270155428 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need a whiteboard :) < 1270155434 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and friends :( < 1270155440 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :laaaaaaaawl < 1270155471 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :setoid would be better as < 1270155505 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inductive setoid : * := over : Pi (A:*). BinaryRelation A -> setoid. < 1270155550 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My cardinality stuff was awesome < 1270155614 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except you need to add that A -> B has cardinality \aleph_0 iff B has. I think. < 1270155621 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1270155646 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or otherwise... Hmm, more than the cardinality of B. < 1270155665 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|A| * |B|, I think. < 1270155677 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As an axio < 1270155679 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :m < 1270155723 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't prove it, requires a bijection from A->B to naturals or finite set (naturals mod some N) < 1270155830 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Does INF -> FIN really have infinite cardinality? < 1270155837 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Naw. Finite. < 1270156186 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1270156212 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or wait. < 1270156229 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course it is infinite. < 1270156246 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0:0, 1:0, 2:0, ... < 1270156260 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0:1, 1:0, 2:0, ... < 1270156278 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0:1, 1:1, 2:0, ... < 1270156280 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1270156317 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Type theory has really boring cardinalities < 1270156341 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 <= card <= \aleph_0 < 1270156388 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yawn < 1270156425 0 :adam_d_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :adam_d < 1270156779 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does mean that the biggest thing can be constructed trivially, though — Inductive N : * := z : N; s : N -> N. < 1270156813 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, what of Set and its ilk? < 1270156829 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :red oval, green oval, blue oval < 1270156839 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess there are only countably infinite types. < 1270156848 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's number them! < 1270156852 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm type 842 < 1270156866 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could easily add: < 1270156909 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bijections between functions/types tofro naturals < 1270156940 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8723 :: 23 -> 974 < 1270156971 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For functions, metajustification: if you can analyse functions' in/out pairs on countably infinite sets it can never exceed their cards < 1270156992 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For sets, too lazy to come up with a real justification < 1270157023 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actual implementation for functions could be serialise ast. It doesn't matter. < 1270157279 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric < 1270157856 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1270158002 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1270158050 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi oerjan. < 1270158077 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ehirdiphone < 1270158110 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, can you read email on that thing? < 1270158132 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pow S := sum T, forall x:T, x in T -> x in S < 1270158155 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So "in" is risky. < 1270158166 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather < 1270158170 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The axiom < 1270158187 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(S:*) -> pow S < 1270158191 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is risky < 1270158196 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes < 1270158227 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want, read the email I sent to agora BUS: Re: In Honor of B < 1270158236 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just http://pastie.org/private/vv0eusi1ahas50htd7w < 1270158296 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh < 1270158311 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No wait pow is subset < 1270158377 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pow S := sum T, forall U, (forall x, x in U -> x in S) -> U in T < 1270158536 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in : forall T, T -> * -> Prop < 1270158585 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in T x U := T === U < 1270158593 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : for a more comfortable tactile experience and better retention of fecal matter < 1270158596 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...right < 1270158607 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that doesn't allow for subsets. < 1270158627 0 :dougx!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1270158871 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:11:57 Type theory has really boring cardinalities < 1270158872 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:12:21 0 <= card <= \aleph_0 < 1270158886 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um i thought cantor's proof was constructively valid < 1270158893 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darn, netcat doesn't seem to support IPv6... :-/ < 1270158905 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inductive apart (T:*) : T -> T -> Prop := lfer : forall T, forall x:T, forall y:T, (exists P, P x /\ ~P y) -> apart x y < 1270158920 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yeah but you cannot construct the reals < 1270158925 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: There's a netcat6 < 1270158930 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only the computable reals < 1270158942 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they're just functions on rationals < 1270158957 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: but (Integer -> Bool) can have no bijection with Integer, or whatever < 1270158969 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not? < 1270158972 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A < 1270158995 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And all that means is that the comp reals have no cardinality as such < 1270158999 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(terminating (Integer -> Bool), of course) < 1270159012 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not? < 1270159037 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assume you have a bijection b : Integer -> (Integer -> Bool) < 1270159038 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just an infinite list of books < 1270159042 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bools < 1270159077 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then \n -> not (b n n) gives a contradiction < 1270159089 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think fax said something about this it is only metatheoretivally valid < 1270159096 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Theoretically < 1270159113 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm why? < 1270159130 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if (s)he means it in the sense that there _are_ countable models, then that is true of ZFC as well < 1270159139 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :she < 1270159145 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there can be no bijection _internal_ to the model < 1270159159 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or surjection, for that matter < 1270159176 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway why is that a contradiction? Of course you have no idea what b does < 1270159209 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mind I am really tired < 1270159221 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well for b to be a surjection _means_ : forall f : Integer -> Bool, exists n : Integer such that b n == f < 1270159234 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ofc < 1270159239 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And? < 1270159252 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well let f = \n -> not (b n n) < 1270159264 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1270159275 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then? < 1270159295 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(f n) where b n = f? < 1270159306 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1270159317 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it is _|_. I see. < 1270159330 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the functions are strictly bigger. < 1270159344 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1270159369 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So do we just have |R| or more? < 1270159398 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well in ZFC they are of course equal, but here i don't know < 1270159410 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess R -> R must be bigger. < 1270159416 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But. Wait. < 1270159429 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: It cannot be |R| surely < 1270159438 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as we cannot constrict the reals < 1270159442 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nstrict < 1270159444 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Construct < 1270159456 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assumed you meant something called the reals in your system < 1270159472 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant beth-one < 1270159478 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1270159483 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is afaik _meaningless_ to compare cardinalities from ZFC with cardinalities in your system < 1270159500 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably. < 1270159501 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're not in the same fundamental theory model < 1270159510 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1270159515 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what the infinite cardinalities are? < 1270159538 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and outside a model, everything can be considered countable if the axioms are (and they must be if things are finite strings) < 1270159563 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well cantor's theorem can be iterated of course, to get a sequence of larger sets < 1270159581 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. But it needs the reals. < 1270159598 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The computable reals are definitely smaller than the reals < 1270159602 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um i'm talking about something more fundamental than the reals < 1270159611 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because almost all reals are uncomputsnle < 1270159626 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'm not paying much attention :) < 1270159626 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, A^B is _always_ larger than B if A has at least 2 elements < 1270159639 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :B -> A yeah < 1270159658 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bool -> () < 1270159661 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only one < 1270159674 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\b.tt < 1270159689 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or A->B? < 1270159706 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1270159708 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :B -> A < 1270159712 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A needs two elements < 1270159726 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\().true, \().false < 1270159729 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not bigger < 1270159765 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course not. for infinite cardinalities in ZFC, A^2 always has the _same_ size as A < 1270159780 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"at least" two < 1270159786 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not more :P < 1270159809 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|unit -> A| = |A|, surely. < 1270159810 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm i thought you were still confused about A -> B vs. B -> A < 1270159831 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just use arrow notation to restate it :p < 1270159834 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A^B is a notation for (B -> A) < 1270159847 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm confused though. < 1270159863 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh larger than B < 1270159866 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ic ic < 1270159876 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool. < 1270159886 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's intuitive based on cardinalities, |B -> A| = |A|^|B| in ZFC < 1270159913 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So maybe type theory "cardsets" — canonical types of a certain card are < 1270159949 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1270159962 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :N mod m (Fin m), N, N -> Bool, (N -> Bool) -> Bool < 1270159966 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1270159975 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except what would the last look like... < 1270160003 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it presumably could only look at finitely many N for each function < 1270160016 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Induction? < 1270160028 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh maybe < 1270160053 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly that's propositions, not booleans, but... < 1270160063 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Easy enough to do afaict < 1270160077 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just set P := (=== True) < 1270160095 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can't have Prop -> Bool < 1270160101 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So no not induction < 1270160136 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1270160235 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just feels, intuitively, like if your (N -> Bool) -> Bool function does not recognize its argument somehow (and wouldn't something like the halting problem prevent it from doing so in general) then it cannot really do anything better than testing specific N values < 1270160260 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(P z \/ ~P z) -> (forall n, (P n -> P (s n)) /\ (~P n -> ~P (s n))) -> (forall n, P n) \/ (forall n, ~P n) < 1270160268 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Excluded middle lol < 1270160291 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yeah < 1270160337 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that induction would work < 1270160361 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say B x := if x then Unit else Bottom < 1270160364 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then < 1270160381 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :food -> < 1270160471 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(B (f z) \/ ~B (f z)) -> (forall n, (B (f n) -> B (f (s n))) /\ (~B (f n) -> ~B (f (s n)))) -> Bool < 1270160484 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: So we can do induction < 1270160568 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inductive B : Bool -> Prop := yep : B true < 1270160628 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Get Colloquy for iPhone! http://mobile.colloquy.info < 1270160881 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1270161115 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the Epigram language? < 1270161161 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1270161381 0 :adam_d_!~Adam@client-86-31-200-91.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1270161614 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1270161658 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1270161846 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1270162163 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1270162192 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1270162464 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I am leaving. You are about to explode. < 1270162938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5841 < 1270162973 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, you're two minutes too late. i cannot _possibly_ read this now. < 1270162978 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1 april RFC this year it seems) < 1270162986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, two minutes two late? < 1270162987 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1270162992 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, also hi < 1270163025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Packets do not have birthdays, so packets can be marked as surprised when they encounter unexpected error conditions." < 1270163045 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's April 2 now < 1270163063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, well sure, but RFC are published in US timezones < 1270163069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, also it isn't April 2 in UTC < 1270163087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in UTC you have two hours - 5 minutes left < 1270163090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get going < 1270163116 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be _cheating_ < 1270163309 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1270163352 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1270163573 0 :charlls!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1270163939 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1270163996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it wouldn't < 1270163998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1270164151 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1270164170 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1270164243 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1270164293 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sends AnMaster a few packets with the user mood >:) < 1270164349 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahahah, Wikipedia's being clever by using misleading wording instead of outright lies :P < 1270164387 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A Japanese multinational conglomerate (headquarters pictured) investigates how some of its customers were accidentally sent back in time to the year 1999." < 1270164396 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Sony investigating the PS3 date bug) < 1270164411 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, Wikipedia always does that < 1270164421 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never looked before :P < 1270164442 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hulu has a 3d button < 1270164476 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.hulu.com/internal/confidential/the-initiative-chapter-1 < 1270165259 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1270165660 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-243-221-66.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1270165715 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection