< 1268784102 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1268784171 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck yeah, now its looking good :) < 1268784213 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:03:38 hmm, if a problem is NP, its reverse is normally P < 1268784224 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should be _glad_ you're not here right now < 1268784257 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :) < 1268784262 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION huggles oerjan
< 1268784263 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(translation: that is just nonsense) < 1268784285 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless he had something strange in mind by "reverse" < 1268784291 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that part of the definition of NP? < 1268784299 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have i told you about my algorithm that seems to solve the maximum clique problem in quadratic time? 8D < 1268784302 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :certainly not < 1268784367 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a link somewhere in the logs < 1268784369 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you see it? < 1268784415 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: well since the part of the logs i'm at mentioned it was NP-complete, i assume that's only "seems" < 1268784424 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it probbaly does only seem < 1268784445 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im running it in Textmate's ruby interpreter, so its slow, right < 1268784451 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i cant so the kinds of tests i'd like to do < 1268784460 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but otherwise i should congratulate you on soon becoming a millionaire ;D < 1268784467 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we could implement it in C and get some blazing speed out of it then throw some random data at it < 1268784469 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MAN I WISH < 1268784562 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: you should test it on a maximum clique problem that has been reduced from some other NP-complete problem like SAT. < 1268784602 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure but what i need is not a single test case but a bunch of them, so that i can actually plot complexity curves < 1268784607 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know (at least on the spot) how the reduction goes though < 1268784617 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a single test case is fine, but that just tells me how fast it solves this one problem < 1268784633 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: well if you have the actual reduction algorithm, you could test reduced SAT cases < 1268784683 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. i guess what i really need is a way to just run through a shitton of graphs. < 1268784698 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right now im just testing it on 100 random graphs with n nodes < 1268784706 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for n in 2..30 < 1268784711 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-71-7-92.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1268784721 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Ruby? Of course it's slow. The interpreter is literally traversing the AST! < 1268784729 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1268784755 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know its slow. i need to write this in C, but im too lazy to figure that out right now. i suppose if i could find a graph library it'd be trivial < 1268784782 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the problem of finding the maximum clique is both fixed-parameter intractable and hard to approximate" < 1268784787 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i need to figure out how to use the standard array and hash libraries < 1268784822 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Array library? C? *Hah*. < 1268784837 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1268784851 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? :P < 1268784863 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, something that will automatically manage arrays for me < 1268784874 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No such thing. < 1268784877 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1268784878 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes there is < 1268784882 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're lucky to have malloc. < 1268784883 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: are you sure you are actually finding the maximum clique and not a _maximal_ clique? < 1268784888 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is being intentionally evil. ;)
< 1268784891 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1268784918 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i.e. a clique that cannot be enlarged) < 1268784920 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But on a more serious note: there are no *standard* array libraries. < 1268784923 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes. see, the algorithm technically doesn't find the maximum clique, it finds the largest clique that a given node is in < 1268784929 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You've got handy tools like "memcmp" < 1268784933 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "memcpy". < 1268784938 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT, that problem is actually the maximum clique problem. < 1268784938 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1268784947 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And things that claim to be tools like "strcpy" and "strcmp". < 1268784971 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, ofcourse im finding a maximal clique. the maximum clique IS maximal. 8D < 1268784978 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is a semanticist
< 1268785023 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah thats right < 1268785032 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know how to do denotational semantics /for real languages/ < 1268785055 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suck it, strachey and scott < 1268785079 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :general semantics? hah < 1268785083 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1268785087 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1268785091 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know! < 1268785092 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :general semantics is not semantics. < 1268785098 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know! < 1268785321 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:22:57 generate them at random? by definition, you can test if an answer to an NP-complete problem is correct in P-time < 1268785326 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*facepalm* < 1268785350 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only if the answer is _yes_ < 1268785365 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And only if "answer" means a whole lot more than the answer. < 1268785374 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: forget him < 1268785379 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1268785379 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets translate this algorithm into C < 1268785416 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise, the statement would be equivalent to "you can determine if the answer to an NP-complete problem is YES or NO in P-time". < 1268785437 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1268785472 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once met a guy who was 120% sure that P != NP. < 1268785473 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: mind you what he said, with a liberal interpretation, is true if NP = co-NP. but that is not known. < 1268785516 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, if he really is 120% sure, he ought to be willing to take a bet where he loses $1 if P != NP and loses $1,000,000 if P = NP. < 1268785531 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: cmon, lets do it. im starting to see some potentially exponential trends so lets get to doing this for real < 1268785557 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean "us", kemosabe? < 1268785558 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Calculate the expected value: 1.2 * -1 + -0.2 * -1000000 = 199998.8 < 1268785595 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: us, as in if its really polynomial you'll get half the credit. < 1268785606 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*kimosabe < 1268785684 0 :charlls!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Saliendo < 1268785748 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, it's kemosabe, how does google dare to suggest a _wrong_ correction? < 1268785900 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :magic < 1268785945 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google Dares With Magic < 1268785972 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd dare your magic < 1268785975 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you know what i mean < 1268785976 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;o ;o ;o < 1268786393 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow wait < 1268786401 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there really no standard C libs for arrays? < 1268786605 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not part of the standard library, no. < 1268786632 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strictly speaking, C *does not have arrays* that are not global or on the stack. And you cannot pass arrays as arguments. < 1268786640 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What you have is a pointer and syntactic sugar. < 1268786686 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, i know. what i mean is some sort of struct or whatever and some functions that will manage it so i can just push and pop as needed < 1268786698 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in the C library. < 1268786706 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1268786708 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im surprised. < 1268787467 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1268788572 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where the fuck is memcpy located :| < 1268788674 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :string,h, according to man memcpy < 1268788712 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. string.h < 1268788767 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i might need to just write my own version actually < 1268788790 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no probably not < 1268788790 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1268789460 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. < 1268789468 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1268789585 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird. < 1268789701 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo 'Because there are a LOT of ways to mess up these' | wc < 1268789711 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 11 49 < 1268789770 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1268789779 0 :lament!~lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1268790843 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_O < 1268790941 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes? < 1268791180 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite Definitely Maybe. < 1268791501 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :HiEverybody < 1268791507 0 :HiEverybody!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :comex < 1268791555 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: hi! < 1268791561 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1268791793 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1268793210 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1268793954 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1268793971 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Reboot < 1268794028 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-100-139.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1268794260 0 :nooga!~nooga@sc82.internetdsl.tpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1268794262 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1268794282 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've found something amusing on google maps :D < 1268794283 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1268794288 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://to./38k2 WTF? < 1268794343 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1268794349 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then < 1268794351 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.5mil broad stripe over bajkal O_o < 1268794443 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like a post-processing artifact to me < 1268794451 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1268794474 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks awesome < 1268794518 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no no, it's the famous barguzin half-bridge < 1268794538 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for soviet tanks, perhaps < 1268794539 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;D < 1268794553 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if this wasn't 2010 i'd say it was a piece of tape < 1268794794 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.allexperts.com/q/Geography-1729/running-Lake-Baikal-1.htm < 1268794798 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rotfl rotfl rotfl < 1268794821 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're trying to explain it with another conspiracy theory < 1268794823 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::DD:DD: < 1268794970 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1268796063 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I am leaving. You are about to explode. < 1268796716 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, so in my game, if the player hits the jump button 2 frames before they touch the ground, the game gives them leeway and jumps anyway once they touch down < 1268796724 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hope this doesn't screw with their brains < 1268796798 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm actually pretty happy about the heuristics I've come up with. scrolling, jumping behavior, ... < 1268796801 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfucking is strictly allowed in this community < 1268796827 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :screw with their brains, not screw their brains < 1268797878 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1268798410 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erg < 1268798425 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why am i getting errors when i have circular dependency graphs in C? :| < 1268798848 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1268799216 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean by circular dependency graphs < 1268799242 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: ^ < 1268799253 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nevermind < 1268799257 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i found a better solution < 1268799287 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you mean #include's, then they cannot be circular afaik, they're textual inclusion < 1268799306 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was using #import, but < 1268799333 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1268799401 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah that's apparently not C, but C++ < 1268799415 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XCode. < 1268800010 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1268800319 0 :werdan7!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1268800319 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1268800355 0 :SimonRC!~sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1268800785 0 :werdan7!~w7@freenode/staff/wikimedia.werdan7 JOIN :#esoteric < 1268801196 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Probably a simple question but what do I put for the login universe for Preston bot and other bots if I am in AWEDU? I have tried !AWEDU! but get the message ' cant resolve universe host'." < 1268801209 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, the login universe is a server < 1268801224 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, this person is somewhat clueless, but so what < 1268801234 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, this is the response from staff: < 1268801247 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Could you please tell me what your User name is in AWEDU and which world is yours? I will need this to get the info. < 1268801247 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1268801251 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^lies < 1268802062 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1268804012 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1268812799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1268812800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1268813281 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1268815257 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I will do anything (almost) for a new router. < 1268815807 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1268821719 0 :lereah_!~lereah@nanpc301.in2p3.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1268824428 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1268825568 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1268825834 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1268826602 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1268828015 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1268830601 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1268831076 0 :MigoMipo!~MigoMipo@84-217-15-154.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1268831916 0 :amca!~amca@CPE-121-208-82-97.cqzr1.cha.bigpond.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1268833164 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1268837559 0 :deschutron!~alex@122-49-172-157.ip.adam.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1268837816 0 :fax!~none@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1268837867 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1268838004 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1268838027 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1268838143 0 :MigoMipo!~migomipo@84-217-15-154.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1268838210 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1268838225 0 :lament!~lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1268838467 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1268838652 0 :MigoMipo!~migomipo@84-217-15-154.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1268839392 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1268841962 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1268841988 0 :lament!~lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1268842990 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: KABOOM! < 1268843013 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1268843144 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1268843457 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-8-33.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1268843485 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1268843488 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1268843844 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1268845046 0 :werdan7!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 633 seconds < 1268845294 0 :deschutron!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1268845570 0 :werdan7!~w7@freenode/staff/wikimedia.werdan7 JOIN :#esoteric < 1268846366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, there? < 1268846407 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1268846412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How deep snow have you personally seen in "real life"? < 1268846430 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe 5-6 inches in the deepest parts < 1268846448 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, heh. Look at http://omploader.org/vM3YyMw then < 1268846450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :took that today < 1268846456 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :image? < 1268846457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and well, it has started melting now < 1268846459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes < 1268846460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what else? < 1268846469 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, that's pretty thick < 1268846475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, not to me :P < 1268846488 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The snow was deeper than that here last year. < 1268846489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not compared to how it was before melting... < 1268846509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, well as I said it started melting. About a week or two ago < 1268846524 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I don't live in the frozen north :P < 1268846569 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, what do you mean? < 1268846604 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wth at one picture from my mobile phone. It is just black in the lower part < 1268846612 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, quite simply, that I don't live in the frozen north. < 1268846614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lik not all image data was captured or something < 1268846625 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Perfectly horizontal line? < 1268846632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, yes: http://omploader.org/vM3YyNw < 1268846655 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, funny, it shows white for me :P < 1268846659 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It must truly not have all the image data. < 1268846666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, well, it shows black in eog < 1268846669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1268846672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, perhaps < 1268846673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's sad < 1268846684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was going to make a panorama including that image < 1268846773 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not now you're not! < 1268846785 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[1189626.022063] googleearth-bin[3782]: segfault at 0 ip (null) sp 00000000fff4cb24 error 14 in googleearth-bin[8048000+49000] <-- argh < 1268846817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, now it is suddenly no longer reproducible < 1268846817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wth < 1268846847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay... now it crashes at another point instead < 1268846849 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That's it? :P < 1268846859 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the snow) < 1268846865 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I was reading an article on making stupidly small executables earlier today < 1268846873 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now I recognise that 8048000 straight off < 1268846885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well, compared to UK! < 1268846897 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the canal here froze over over the winter < 1268846909 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some people were rather unwisely trying to walk on it, but it could bear their weight < 1268846919 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, someone tried to drive a car down it, and it /couldn't/ bear its weight < 1268846922 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it hit the local news < 1268846928 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they got quite a way, though < 1268847031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: the canal here froze over over the winter <-- is that rare? < 1268847037 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1268847042 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never known it to happen before < 1268847053 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, it's common for it to get a bit of ice on it < 1268847056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, here we have regular winter roads on the lake < 1268847059 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not for it to be able to bear weight < 1268847066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for cars, some winters even for trucks < 1268847075 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think it closed for this season last week or so < 1268847081 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the one close to here that is) < 1268847081 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's so nice talking to scandinavians, they're the only people (apart from possibly russians, some canadians, and eskimos) who don't think the UK is stupidly cold < 1268847096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, we think it is stupidly rainy < 1268847103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also what about Germans? < 1268847117 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I rather like it here, but maybe I'm just used to it < 1268847275 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, measuring that corridor from the pano yesterday in google earth gives it as roughly 60 meters between the nearest doors visible at either end < 1268847287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, perhaps 50 < 1268847289 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I'm disappointed at the fact that someone put an URL shortener at http://to./ < 1268847309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to.? < 1268847312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wth is that < 1268847315 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a TLD < 1268847318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1268847323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can't put a site at it < 1268847324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you? < 1268847327 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone bought the A record for a TLD just so they could put an URL shortener there < 1268847330 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course you can < 1268847337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is that allowed? < 1268847340 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can add an A record for any domain if you own it < 1268847350 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nothing in the spec says you can't < 1268847364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, but is it allowed by policy... < 1268847378 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, /someone/ did it < 1268847390 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and allegedly ICANN's planning to sell brand new TLDs to companies < 1268847399 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking a TLD owner doesn't have very many constraints as to what they can do with it. < 1268847483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I took a picture at near the end of a 240 meter corridor at the university (length estimated from google earth) < 1268847487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly it was rather blurry < 1268847499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and didn't really show how long it was < 1268847506 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was an MX record for mailto:i@an for a while, IIRC < 1268847507 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how much money Tonga gets from the (ab)use of their .to TLD. < 1268847510 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe still is < 1268847518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, sorry, 270 < 1268847520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not 240 < 1268847531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and .nu too < 1268847532 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I seem to remember that when Tuvalu sold .tv, it was a significant amount of money for every member of its population < 1268847540 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a few hundred thousand dollars or so < 1268847543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what is an? < 1268847545 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wonder they sold it < 1268847562 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm not sure; who really cares, I doubt the original owner of the TLD has much correlation with its use < 1268847564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, per person!? < 1268847568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that were given out? < 1268847570 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an. currently seems to have just NS (and the SOA) entries. < 1268847573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also what domain did they get after? < 1268847614 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.an: Netherlands Antilles, previously known as the Netherlands West Indies or Dutch Antilles/West Indies. < 1268847630 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: according to Wikipedia Tuvalu has a population of 12373 < 1268847632 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There were TLDs with MX records though, I think we dig'd for those not long ago. < 1268847656 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably, with all the money they got from the sale they have no problems buying domains elsewhere if they need them < 1268847684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what a pity there are 28 persons more than the ideal! < 1268847701 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably the value changes over time < 1268847718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no se. < 1268847721 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there is www.se < 1268847728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some domain registrar < 1268847742 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ai. 14400 IN MX 10 mail.offshore.ai. < 1268847745 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was one of them. < 1268847761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ai? < 1268847769 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you could get x@ai as a working email address. < 1268847781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, xai? is that supposed to mean anything? < 1268847785 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that there's probably quite a lot of MTAs that would add a site-specific prefix there. < 1268847791 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just "x" as in "arbitrary". < 1268847794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1268847809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evil.ai would be a nice domain < 1268847829 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.ai is for Anguilla, another one of those tiny specs in the Caribbean. < 1268847832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that yuoswhatever would probably prefer good.ai, unless I misremember what his opinion was < 1268847843 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The total land area of the territory is 91 km2 (35 sq mi), with a population of approximately 13,500 (2006 estimate)." < 1268847900 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, www.ai: "Anguilla's consumption-based tax system is hospitable to productive firms that create income, profits and wealth. And Anguilla has strict secrecy laws, fresh air, and fantastic beaches." < 1268847920 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What a delightfully coy way of saying "we do tax evasion here". < 1268847939 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1268847953 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An .ai domain is $100 for 2 years, available to anyone. < 1268847957 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could try emailing webmaster@ai and asking if they're offering mail addresses there < 1268847968 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, not webmaster < 1268847971 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ai ?? < 1268847974 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not @something.ai ? < 1268847982 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the address to contact the mail server owner? < 1268847990 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: you can put DNS records in for a TLD if you own it < 1268848002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION watches one now slush filled street in google earth's street view
< 1268848004 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is so cool < 1268848009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is amazing that it is the same place < 1268848021 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, as was just mentioned, ai. is one of the relatively few ones that has one already. < 1268848026 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ICANN will truly jump the shark if it ever offers a 0-character TLF < 1268848028 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*TLD < 1268848032 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would presumably be http://./ < 1268848044 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a subdomain would be http://domain../ < 1268848048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is that even possible? < 1268848053 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That one I'm not so sure is legal. < 1268848065 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in theory, google.com is google.com. etc but people pretty much always leave off the final dot) < 1268848097 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and the "correct" meaning for http://google.com/ is http://google.com.localhost./) < 1268848116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no it isn't. It will search in the default search whatever for domains < 1268848132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from my resolv.conf I think that is "domain lan" < 1268848135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not 100% sure though < 1268848146 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I was trying to simplify a bit < 1268848154 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm no < 1268848156 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the idea is that it uses relative-to-local addressing < 1268848157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a search line < 1268848161 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to man page < 1268848161 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you miss off the final . < 1268848198 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1268848265 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ndots:n < 1268848266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : sets a threshold for the number of dots which must appear in a name given to res_query(3) (see resolver(3)) before an initial absolute query will be made. The default for n is 1, < 1268848266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : meaning that if there are any dots in a name, the name will be tried first as an absolute name before any search list elements are appended to it. The value for this option is < 1268848266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : silently capped to 15. < 1268848272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is it "silently capped to 15" < 1268848273 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1268848284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that so makes no sense < 1268848307 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1268848343 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a.b.c.d.e.f.g.h.i.j.k.com might be self-relative, but a.b.c.d.e.f.g.h.i.j.k.l.com always means a.b.c.d.e.f.g.h.i.j.k.l.com.? < 1268848383 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RFC1035 (STD 13) specifies " ::= [ [ ] ]" for the names, though that's only for "the prudent user" who selects a name that "will result in fewer problems with many applications that use domain names", not exactly a real rule. Some of the later, updating RFCs, could possibly specify a real requirement there. < 1268848427 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1268848437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, guess so < 1268848466 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Technically the DNS on-wire format uses (length, data)-style structures for labels, so I guess a zero-length name might actually work. < 1268848469 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's put that in the HackEgo quotes files, just to completely mystify anyone who looks back along them in the future < 1268848477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what does that format mean? < 1268848494 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote so a.b.c.d.e.f.g.h.i.j.k.com might be self-relative, but a.b.c.d.e.f.g.h.i.j.k.l.com always means a.b.c.d.e.f.g.h.i.j.k.l.com.? < 1268848500 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which format? < 1268848506 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :138| so a.b.c.d.e.f.g.h.i.j.k.com might be self-relative, but a.b.c.d.e.f.g.h.i.j.k.l.com always means a.b.c.d.e.f.g.h.i.j.k.l.com.? < 1268848512 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the one you quoted above < 1268848514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it for < 1268848544 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The one? It's for a single component in a domain name. Well, a suggestion for one. < 1268848561 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean, they aren't specified at all? < 1268848601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah < 1268848605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what isn't? < 1268848620 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :domain name components < 1268848626 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: They're specified as a sequence of octets (with a maximum length restriction) in the original standard. But a later document might add more rules. < 1268848632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote let's put that in the HackEgo quotes files, just to completely mystify anyone who looks back along them in the future < 1268848634 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :139| let's put that in the HackEgo quotes files, just to completely mystify anyone who looks back along them in the future < 1268848649 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm not sure if that makes that even more mystifying or not < 1268848652 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The justification there is that DNS supposed to be able to accommodate all kinds of legacy naming schemes. < 1268848668 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"sequence of octets", you could have /so/ much fun with that if you could somehow slip it past ICANN < 1268848690 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :buy the TLD consisting of three NUL characters! < 1268848717 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I should go home < 1268848719 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye everyone < 1268848720 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1268848723 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The DNS specifications attempt to be as general as possible in the rules for constructing domain names. The idea is that the name of any existing object can be expressed as a domain name with minimal changes." < 1268848797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "sequence of octets", you could have /so/ much fun with that if you could somehow slip it past ICANN <-- indeed < 1268848831 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, the actual standard document that grew out of the RFC says: "One label is reserved, and that is the null (i.e., zero length) label used for the root." That might imply that you don't get to use the null label as a component of a domain name elsewhere. < 1268848880 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed: "Internally, programs that manipulate domain names should represent them as sequences of labels, where each label is a length octet followed by an octet string. Because all domain names end at the root, which has a null string for a label, these internal representations can use a length byte of zero to terminate a domain name." < 1268848908 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the three-NUL name should be just fine and dandy. < 1268848920 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Users might have some trouble typing that in a browser, though. < 1268848937 0 :amca!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Farewell < 1268848986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : But the three-NUL name should be just fine and dandy. <-- ? < 1268849036 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The one that ais523 suggested up there. < 1268849044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah < 1268849062 0 :lereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1268849079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, does any program actually represent it like that I wonder < 1268849090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except perhaps dig, bind and a few apps like that < 1268849200 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess regular strings (with dots in it) are more likely. < 1268849227 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Technically speaking you should be able to embed dots in the name; I wonder if dig & friends has some escape sequences for that. < 1268849483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1268849486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1268849601 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1268850223 0 :BeholdMyGlory_!~behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1268850249 0 :BeholdMyGlory_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1268850249 0 :BeholdMyGlory_!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1268850318 0 :BeholdMyGlory_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :BeholdMyGlory < 1268850591 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, btw that blurry image from the ~270 m corridor: http://omploader.org/vM3YydA < 1268850594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not very good < 1268850613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, but there were people around, so best photo I could get < 1268850698 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could try the "put the camera on tripod, take a metric bazillion of pictures, align them very well, take the median value of each pixel" trick to get a completely non-peopled version. Though someone might wonder what you're doing there. < 1268850726 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, indeed... < 1268850865 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The main building here has one ~150 m corridor, but there's an I-think-it's-always-closed door right there in the middle where it changes from "old side" to "new side". < 1268850887 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That ~150 m is very approximative, I don't have g-earth installed and maps.google doesn't have a nice measurement tool.) < 1268850888 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, huh < 1268850897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how to people walk between those parts? < 1268850924 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it's not closed-as-in-locked, just closed-as-in-it-doesn't-stay-open-but-closes-automatically-when-you-let-go. < 1268850947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1268850972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, iirc this 240 meters one is all open usually < 1268850978 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are doors that can be closed along it < 1268850994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc with those electromagnet thingies for auto closing in case of fire < 1268851091 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually it seems to be pretty much exactly 150 m; the muncipal "map service" site (http://kartat.espoo.fi/) has a measure-distances tool. < 1268851123 0 :tombom!~tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1268851337 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's this "tube" (a glass-walled bridge on second-floor-height) between the Computer Science building and the "TUAS" building (industrial engineering and management, automation and systems technology); if you cheat a bit and count that as a part of the same "corridor", it's a bit over 200 m, I think. < 1268851469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1268851498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I only counted the actual corridor < 1268851526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which ends at a door at one end of the building, but at the other end ends in a restaurant and a door to side of the building < 1268851537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I counted the entire building it would be over 300 meters < 1268851555 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(aprox, I don't have google earth open any longer) < 1268851767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh, gimp < 1268851781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gimp's* l10n to Swedish save dialog for tif < 1268851783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is horrible < 1268851799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"deflate" has been translated to "packa ihop" (lit: "pack together") < 1268851821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means I was only able to find it thanks to remember the position in the list of compression algorithms < 1268852372 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1268853044 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if ie < len(args): < 1268853044 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ^ < 1268853044 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SyntaxError: invalid syntax < 1268853046 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :??? < 1268853106 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That caret points at the :, lest that was unclear) < 1268853305 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION shrugs
< 1268853647 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate syns det suger å sortere i MSN/Gtalk/Facebook kontakter! < 1268853659 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think it sucks to sort in MSN / Gtalk / Facebook contacts! < 1268854105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, actually the image I have data might be enough even though one image is corrupt < 1268854113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or truncated rather I guess) < 1268854141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I wonder, rectilinear looks best, but the image data covers too much for that... < 1268854149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any good idea? < 1268854160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want it to look rectilinear near the middle < 1268854176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without being so awkward towards the edges < 1268854288 0 :nooga!~nooga@sc82.internetdsl.tpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1268854336 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really know. You could try to use some sort of external panorama-viewer thing to look at it if you like the rectilinear look. < 1268854368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well, sure, but I want more data towards the edges :/ < 1268854439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, argh, I want wb from one image, and exposure from another < 1268854464 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1268854644 0 :tombom_!~tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1268854809 0 :songhead95!~jay@c-71-232-230-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1268854858 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1268855313 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: songhead95 < 1268855396 0 :songhead95!~jay@c-71-232-230-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1268855475 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Seeeeeya < 1268855492 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1268855658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah found a way: rectilinear with a different center of image < 1268855681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that yields an interesting result. Somewhat like perspective correction. < 1268856320 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: rectilinear huh < 1268856322 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;x < 1268856418 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1268856543 0 :tombom_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1268857045 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, yeah what about it? < 1268857054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, it is a photographic projectioj < 1268857058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :projection* < 1268857063 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i'm sure it is 8D < 1268857070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, what else could it be? < 1268857080 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;D < 1268857108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, for "wide" panoramas you usually use equirectangular or cylindrical or such < 1268857115 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o mai < 1268857118 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rectilinear is closer to a normal "not to wide" lens < 1268857136 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("not to wide" here is to exclude fish eye lenses) < 1268857233 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1268857266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, to best learn what they mean: install hugin (panorama tool) and add some image with lens data in the exif, then play around with the result in of various projections and various angles in the preview window (use the opengl preview window, rather than slow/more-precise preview, otherwise you won't see the updates in real time) < 1268857302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do perspective correction to look at an image from a different direction (assuming you have data for enough of the image) < 1268857311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, that is still from the same point < 1268857337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but like you had rotated the camera in the same spot < 1268857355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use it for creating 3D models from if you want to do that < 1268857388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note, for that you really need to do it on buildings or such, rather than a nature picture) < 1268857437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, have you tried that btw? < 1268857507 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've done perspective correction; I haven't tried to model a building out of it, though. < 1268857522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, there is a tutorial for it on the hugin website < 1268857574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, but what I meant was fun is dragging with the drag tool a rectilinear view of a wide stitch (say, 100-120 degrees wide) < 1268857577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and watch what happens < 1268857595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only drag it horisontally (hold down shift to force cardinal directions) < 1268857604 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the drag tool is near the top of the gl preview window < 1268857667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, note: something like towards the corner of a room with a bit of the ceiling in the picture works very well for seeing the effect < 1268857857 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks a bit like one web-based panorama-viewer, which (I think) had their fov set to something that doesn't really match what a typical computer monitor is. (If you set the preview window fov to the angle that the window itself covers in your vision, theoretically dragging the center around should match the "looking to a different direction" thing pretty well.) < 1268857931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, uploading stitch atm < 1268857990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some data is gone on the right side due to image data being truncated in that file, otherwise the table would have been more complete. The weird thing between the middle windows is *not* a stitching error < 1268857993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://omploader.org/vM3Y0aA < 1268858053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : It looks a bit like one web-based panorama-viewer, which (I think) had their fov set to something that doesn't really match what a typical computer monitor is. (If you set the preview window fov to the angle that the window itself covers in your vision, theoretically dragging the center around should match the "looking to a different direction" thing pretty well. <-- yep, it did, well, I had < 1268858054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wider, but this monitor is a large wide screen, so it wasn't too noticeable except at extreme angles < 1268858056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1268858061 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't have quoted it all -_- < 1268858242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, btw, the house with the long corridor panorama from yesterday is the one you can see through the windows with the weird ^ kind of shape on top < 1268858266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the ^ thing is a glassed over section, really should take some images of that some day, it looks cool from inside) < 1268858290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you, it isn't actually ^ but /| but we look at it from an angle where it looks more like /\ indeed < 1268858397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so what did you think about that panorama? < 1268858471 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That you might have chosen a more interesting-looking place to photograph. :p < 1268858502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well yes, probably < 1268858515 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woot, completed Nethack < 1268858520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, will try to do so next time, I was bored though < 1268858537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, really? Didn't you say just a few weeks ago that you didn't ever get far into it? < 1268858547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and suddenly you completed it < 1268858569 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My first game where I got as far as sokoban without save scumming; and yes, I ascended just a short while ago. < 1268858569 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my experience you need a lot of practise between those two states! < 1268858582 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been spoiled for years < 1268858584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, -D ? < 1268858592 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No cheating, nothing special < 1268858597 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: About NetHack: shopkeepers can't tell identical twins apart. oh! horror! oh! horror! oh! any horror but this! (marmion, by g. k....) < 1268858612 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: :-P < 1268858615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1268858631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh < 1268858633 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a ttyrec (if it worked) at http://tar.us.to:7654/best-nethack-run-20100312.ttyrec.bz2 < 1268858657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, link to a player for that? < 1268858673 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? I didn't play on any server, just locally < 1268858686 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, err, I mean, how do I play it. pacman -S what < 1268858693 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1268858697 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's called 'ascended', not completed < 1268858701 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, how did you record it then? < 1268858710 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: With termrec, which is only a recorder < 1268858714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need a tool to view the ttyrec < 1268858717 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ttyrec links to a few players < 1268858721 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ah. < 1268858736 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: I figured if I said "I ascended" it wouldn't be clear enough. < 1268858803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah *installs on laptop... ubuntu/debian has almost everything in repos* < 1268858831 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: what class? < 1268858841 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 8484990 deewiant-Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu ascended to demigod-hood. 276 [324] < 1268858853 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 million?? < 1268858859 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :were you farming? < 1268858860 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beats me < 1268858862 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope < 1268858870 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a big score < 1268858873 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How's the score calculated? < 1268858890 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how far you got multiplied by how much you suck < 1268858902 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright < 1268858908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, how long did it take in wall clock < 1268858915 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, the score is complex < 1268858923 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many turns? < 1268858924 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, since 2010-03-12 < 1268858930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, you can easily wrap around in a long running game < 1268858936 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, without farming < 1268858936 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: Around 70-75k < 1268858945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and well... I have done farming once. That's enough < 1268858950 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's not true. < 1268858960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was interesting to try out, but very boring < 1268858976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, it has happened to me in a non-farming game < 1268858992 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't imagine it. I don't believe you. < 1268858994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, however I did get level 30, and I had a heck of a lot of gemstones with me up < 1268859003 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1268859015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :polymorphed lots and lots and lots and lots of rocks iirc < 1268859026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, pebbles(?) < 1268859032 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was some time ago I played nethack < 1268859034 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrapping the score around is actually fairly difficult < 1268859041 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you certainly can't do it accidentally < 1268859043 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1268859048 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in general without scripts < 1268859067 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, I managed however. That was a very long running game though, a few months iirc < 1268859075 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot how many turns < 1268859078 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't believe you < 1268859086 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you're DeathOnAStick?? < 1268859108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, I'm not afaik < 1268859116 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i don't believe you then. < 1268859118 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: http://dpaste.com/173073/ < 1268859124 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.us.to is a weird domain name. < 1268859128 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't say much < 1268859143 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: cool < 1268859161 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3046 creatures vanquished. < 1268859163 0 :Wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-140-214.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1268859170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, some things that raises scores: gemstones and artifacts in your inventory (or nested in bags/sacks) when you ascend. < 1268859181 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: See paste above. < 1268859181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, then there are various other things I forgot < 1268859204 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't have stuff with me, left a crapton in a chest in Sokoban though. < 1268859223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, you should have taken artifacts and gemstones with you < 1268859235 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No encumbrance-room :-P < 1268859257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :amulets really aren't worth it for the points compared to the "high end" gemstones < 1268859259 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It turns out that carrying a few dozen spellbooks with you, even in a bag of holding, is enough to make carrying anything else difficult < 1268859271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, why did you need the spellbooks? < 1268859274 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't going for points at all, just survivability < 1268859286 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In case I forget important spells, of course. < 1268859298 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, you played wiz? < 1268859301 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1268859312 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1268859323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well, then I'm impressed. I always found wiz hard to ascend with, compared to val for example < 1268859337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not as hard as bar or tou though) < 1268859346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the former of which I never managed) < 1268859351 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found it really easy for the most part, actually < 1268859356 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and the latter which I *almost* managed) < 1268859363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, elf or human? < 1268859365 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In particular the ascension run was much easier than I expected < 1268859371 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 2010-03-17 21:46:57 ( Deewiant) 1 8484990 deewiant-Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu ascended to demigod-hood. 276 [324] < 1268859384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1268859425 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the highest score is 2147483647 < 1268859434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, in that game where I did wrap the score, my plan was to get as high score as possible. But I wasn't aware at that point yet that it *could* wrap < 1268859449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that was a nasty shock to say the least < 1268859453 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the score you get for each dilithium crystal when ascending is 4500 < 1268859471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, yep, artifacts give you way more iirc < 1268859478 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still very, very little < 1268859489 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1268859492 0 :EgoBot!~EgoBot@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1268859499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, if you can get some dilithium crystals in nested bags of holding... < 1268859509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of course you need sacks in between) < 1268859514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or things blow up) < 1268859523 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep you only need 477218 crystals < 1268859532 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically there's no way you're right < 1268859534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, I didn't say it was *all* due to crystals < 1268859537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1268859540 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either you're lying or mistaken < 1268859595 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some score comes from killing monsters, wizard of yendor is 3153 < 1268859598 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You only need to kill Demogorgon 656924 times to get a score-wraparound. < 1268859602 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :times two if you ascend < 1268859609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, neither. I was doing a extinctionism run < 1268859617 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, which meant I had to kill lots of monsters < 1268859630 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I managed all but the xan, which I sadly forgot about < 1268859652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, alas I can't show you this, since I can't play on nao due to bad lag < 1268859666 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ipbt appears to play the ttyrec fine < 1268859672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it had reasonable delay I would play on it < 1268859673 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If anybody's still wondering about that < 1268859675 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a lot of monsters, about a million < 1268859688 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather much more than a million since most of them are low XP < 1268859688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I'm using ttyplay < 1268859701 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i still don't believe you, lots of people play extinctionist and none of them wrap around the score < 1268859715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, well sure, but you can manage it if you do try to aim for highest possible score without being aware of that it can wrap < 1268859758 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I hope it can do some kind of time compression, there's a few AFK sessions there < 1268859783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well yes, you can press a key to advance to the next typed char < 1268859783 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you would have to have killed all the monsters many times over < 1268859794 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: since they were all extinct, what was it you were killing? < 1268859879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, as I said, it wasn't all from monsters. It was a combination of a) monster killing b) a major portion of the artifacts (yay for bone files!) c) some crystals. < 1268859883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't do pudding farming < 1268859893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I did do death farming near the end < 1268859907 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1268859916 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scripted death farming? < 1268859921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, unscripted < 1268859927 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1268859927 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's 154027 frames: 43 hours if one second each < 1268859929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, spent weeks at it I think XD < 1268859932 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohh < 1268859969 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that explains it then < 1268859976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, or around 1-2 week(s) from when I started death farming to that I ended. I did sleep in between, but since it was summer holidays I spent a lot of the days at it < 1268859986 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that must've been the bulk of your xp i think < 1268859993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was about 2 years ago, so I might misremember some details < 1268860011 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I do know I was very pissed of at finding out that it wrapped < 1268860036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, it didn't wrap without the help of inventory items. so it ended up really low < 1268860038 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's presumably a score-showing option/patch you could've used < 1268860044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think something like 5000-6000 or so < 1268860052 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course it still would've wrapped but you may've found out earlier < 1268860084 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you overestimate the contribution of artifacts, they score very little < 1268860084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I don't think, if it only wrapped due to inventory items < 1268860109 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Assuming it doesn't take that into account, yes < 1268860117 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the contribution of artifacts is only about 50K max < 1268860125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, book of dead is worth 25000 < 1268860127 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :less than 100K anyway < 1268860140 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Score < 1268860145 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ok a bit more < 1268860152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, and yes. I just pointed out that without me having the book of the dead with me (pretty sure I did), it wouldn't have wrapped < 1268860163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the final score was somewhere in the range 5000-6000 < 1268860178 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't it signed, if the max is 2147483647? < 1268860205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I have not seen a negative score though as far as I can remember < 1268860219 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is signed, yes < 1268860235 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone on NAO has a -2,147,474,899 ascension < 1268860243 0 :nooga!~nooga@87-205-67-239.adsl.inetia.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1268860280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, hm, then I guess I calculated as if it was unsigned < 1268860288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, and it would have ended up negative without the artifacts < 1268860379 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're absolutely nuts < 1268860459 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, nobody on NAO has an ascension with a score of exactly 0 < 1268860906 0 :dbc!~daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1268860910 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1268861088 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1268861119 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: If you just want the highlights of the game, I recommend frame 130669 and thereon < 1268861460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, no idea how to jump to there < 1268861473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at lest this tool doesn't provide that < 1268861532 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you'll spend a long time watching it :-P < 1268861602 0 :Hohoo!~hohoo@cs27026246.pp.htv.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1268861683 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, that'd be the bit where I shoot myself with a finger of death since I accidentally pressed . instead of 3 on the numpad < 1268861742 0 :Hohoo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello... I got this idea for a little brainfuck derivative: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/190908/ < 1268861765 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: lol < 1268861779 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: It was my only death, too; messed up my conduct < 1268861962 0 :Hohoo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a Python script that converts brainfuck into that confusing "brand-new" language. Try it and see. < 1268862040 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-8-33.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1268862066 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are a genius < 1268862136 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hohoo: i can't understand this program it's too complicated < 1268862172 0 :Hohoo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: Hello world would look like this: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/190915/ < 1268862184 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about brainfuck comments? < 1268862190 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they go through this program? < 1268862234 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have another brainfuck derivative < 1268862240 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of "[" you write "Eat shit" < 1268862247 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of "]", "Go fuck yourself" < 1268862255 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of ">", "I fucked your mother last night" < 1268862258 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1268862266 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finish what you start lament < 1268862421 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, since it's marginally esolang-related, I might mention this here; I wrote a trivial (<350 lines) Perl script that converts a Brainfuck source into a (rather unoptimized; just run-length-coding and [-] special-case) LLVM assembly file, and optionally pushes that through the llvm-as + llc + as + gcc pipe so that a native executable comes out. < 1268862425 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't suppose it's any better in any way than an even more trivial Brainfuck→C conversion, but I just wanted to do some sort of trivial test of LLVM. < 1268862450 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's cool < 1268862474 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :350 seems a bit long for something like that :-P < 1268862476 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is using his home IRC client from school >>
< 1268862614 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: ok < 1268862616 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/190921/ < 1268862636 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hohoo: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/190921/ < 1268862641 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1268862652 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please read it aloud. < 1268862661 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting thing about these languages is they change quines < 1268862665 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Well, you do have to squizzle the loop structure into a list of basic blocks with predecessor information, in order to add the proper phi instructions in there. And there's a 50-line POD documentation block; and some other assorted bookkeeping since the LLVM asm is a SSA form, so you can't exactly just do "p++", you have to give p a new name. < 1268862679 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hohoo, can you make a quine transputer? < 1268862697 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh, if you're doing phis directly then that's a bit trickier, yes. < 1268862711 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You mean there's some other way too?-) < 1268862715 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You could just store the index in memory and store there; the optimizer will change it to phis. < 1268862768 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Well, right, I guess so; I just didn't want to generate *completely* brainless .ll assembly. Not that it's still not silly. < 1268862787 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not brainless, it's what just about any compiler will do :-P < 1268862789 0 :charlls!charlls@186.72.43.179 JOIN :#esoteric < 1268862798 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is why the optimizers are good at getting rid of it ;-) < 1268862914 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: How good is the resulting output? < 1268862938 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Currently there's an "interesting"-looking "%bXoutmem = bitcast i8* %bXY" (where X is block index and Y is the last mem-ptr value from that block) at the end of each block, since I wanted to be able to just say "%bXinmem = phi i8* [ %bYoutmem, %BlockY ], ..." in the beginning of each block to get the initial memory pointer value. < 1268862988 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Identity bitcast? >_< < 1268862990 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Can't really say, I don't have any sensible brainfuck benchmarks. The x86-64 assembly for hello-world looked a bit messier than what I'd have liked, though. < 1268863004 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Right, since just "%foo = %bar" is apparently not allowed. :p < 1268863022 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, it's SSA, there's no point in just renaming something :-P < 1268863079 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Right, I obviously meant "%bXoutmem = bitcast i8* %bXY to i8*" there, but you did guess the identitytity of it. < 1268863096 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I did. < 1268863115 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1268863222 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Make one up? :P < 1268863228 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'm not sure but I think %bXoutmem = getelementptr i8* %bXY would work as well < 1268863262 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The grammar allows for zero indices but that doesn't mean the implementation does :-P < 1268863265 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Possibly. Or a ptrtoint i64 + inttoptr pair for extra nonsensity. < 1268863292 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I was thinking just in terms of compressing it < 1268863323 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course you could do "%bXoutmem = select i1 true, i8* %bXY, i8* undef" or whatever if you like :-P < 1268863352 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Actually I had that in there first (except the %bXY also on the false side) before the identity-bitcast. :p < 1268863363 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I already ptrtoint the memory pointer to an i64 value for (sequences of) < and > instructions, because a random googling page said that's the way you're supposed to do pointer arithmancy on LLVM. < 1268863381 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :getelementptr is preferable IMO < 1268863444 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is LogMeIn considered reputable? < 1268863462 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yes, I guess I should've done that; if I getelementptr with a single index, do I get just a fixed offset of the original %ptr back? < 1268863462 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[If not, I'm kind of screwed] < 1268863518 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I think you need to have it be a pointer to a struct or array for that to work, actually. < 1268863545 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it may not be available to you unless you've got a [30000 x i8] backing it. < 1268863602 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Hmn; I'm keeping a "raw" pointer around that I decrement/increment; I guess I would need to somehow type-cast that thing backwards if I used getelementptr to modify the offset. < 1268863630 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Java applet is kind of wonky < 1268863652 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: getelementptr gives you a result of the element pointer type. < 1268863674 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Right, but can I then use that in successive getelementptr instructions to move the pointer around? < 1268863675 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if you keep it around as a pointer to the array, it may be easier. Or then not. < 1268863687 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Maybe I should just use a i32 offset modified by <> and getelementptr (instead of a raw load/store) for +-,.[] memory-access, and trust the optimizer to make it, well, optimal. Oh, well. < 1268863689 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: No, because then you've got an i8*. :-P < 1268863703 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grr, why does it think "Ctrl-A" means "Close out of Chrome"? < 1268863703 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you can't gep unless it's a pointer-to-aggregate < 1268863732 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The generated code doesn't seem to optimize "store"s over "call @putchar", for example; I guess it can't really figure out that's safe since the memory pointer comes in as an argument to the brainfuck code function, and putchar() might well depend on that. Maybe some sort of attribute there somewhere might help. < 1268863746 0 :Hohoo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1268863847 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and it does all the on-tape calculations too, presumably because it can't know the tape starts out as zeroes. Heh. < 1268863879 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you made it a "[30000 x i8] zeroinitializer" it would ;-) < 1268864148 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I should try out a function-internal tape, in fact. < 1268864270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Identity bitcast? >_< <-- wonderful! < 1268864294 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bored of watching the game yet? < 1268864377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Is LogMeIn considered reputable? <-- wth is it, I never heard of it. And why are you using it. < 1268864446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well yes. < 1268864452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I'm reading internet oracle atm < 1268864454 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1268864461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, since I can't jump forward it seems < 1268864489 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recommended ipbt, which has a sufficiently nice amount of functionality < 1268864522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, not in ubuntu or arch repos... < 1268864544 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's in AUR < 1268864549 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, meh < 1268864566 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Going to disconnect from it for now. LogMeIn without Java or ActiveX or the Firefox plugin is maddening. I can use the Java thign on this computer, but it's a pain. < 1268864577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, what the hell is it < 1268864586 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/recommended/recommend/... although that works either way I guess < 1268864593 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lets me control my computer from elsewhere. < 1268864672 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Disconnecting for now. Later, in class, I should be able to use the ActiveX control. < 1268864681 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, it's like ssh, except lame and terrible because it's for Windows. < 1268864691 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use a VNC < 1268864849 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1268865549 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: So, uh... if I start to refer to my memory block using an actual value of type [30000 x i8] (initialized as "zeroinitializer"), how can I actually operate on it? extractvalue/insertvalue can only work on constant indices, and the only way I can see to get a pointer to a stack-allocated value is to take it from alloc; but in that case I just get a i8* that's not necessarily initialized, and I don't see a particularly simple way of telling LLVM I want t < 1268865549 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o zero it, except with a loop that explicitly stores a 0 in each cell (which is what I had in my generated main() for standalone apps). < 1268865604 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: If you have a global [30000 x i8] zeroinitializer, that value is a [30000 x i8]* < 1268865629 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't want a global, putchar and such could depend on that. I want a strictly function-internal thing. < 1268865638 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Also, if I read things right, a "%x = getelementptr i8* %y, i32 1" in fact does give me i8*:%x that points to one byte after %y. < 1268865655 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you mark it "internal", putchar won't depend on it. :-P < 1268865684 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Maybe; I think that you need to give it a pointer to an aggregate, but I might be wrong. < 1268865699 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or do you have some kind of putchar of your own defined there? < 1268865757 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My tape-zeroing loop in main() did %mem = alloca $opt{cell}, i32 30000 and then later "%p = getelementptr i8* %mem, i32 %i" and "store i8 0, $i8* %p" and it compiled without problems. < 1268865786 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: For function-locality I guess you could do: x = alloca [i8 x 30000] store x, [i8 x 30000] zeroinitializer < 1268865796 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If that works, that's nice. :-) < 1268865799 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The first argument is always a pointer, and forms the basis of the calculation. -- The first index always indexes the pointer value given as the first argument, the second index indexes a value of the type pointed to (not necessarily the value directly pointed to, since the first index can be non-zero), etc." < 1268865823 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%x = alloca [i8 x 30000] gives the type i8* to %x. < 1268865829 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Away for a moment now. < 1268865836 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm, or maybe not. < 1268865837 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would a VNC bypass the fact that I can't open ports? < 1268865841 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It shouldn't O_o < 1268865855 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You allocate a single element of [i8 x 30000] instead of 30000 elements of i8, right. Didn't see that. < 1268865868 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1268865868 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yes, I guess that sort of stuff could work. Will have to try later on. < 1268865986 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, was that to me? < 1268865994 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it wasn't. < 1268866007 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know the answer to your question. < 1268866065 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With a plugin installed, it seems very smooth < 1268866077 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I think I'll try out: %tape = alloca [i8 x 30000]; %memptr = getelementptr [i8 x 30000]* %tape, i32 0, i32 0; ... and then my existing style of keeping around a raw pointer, except that I do p++ as %newptr = getelementptr i8* %oldptr, i32 1 and so on. < 1268866097 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1268866168 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-71-7-92.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1268866383 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-2-59.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1268866417 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1268866417 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1268866561 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1268866687 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Heh, I did http://pastebin.com/NJRPq53G and now "llc -O3 -f -o hello.s hello.bc" took 1 minute 14 seconds of 100 % CPU-use time to finish. :p < 1268866754 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1268866759 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Also "wc -l hello.s" => 30193; it contains: "movb $0, 29999(%rsp); movb $0, 29998(%rsp); movb $0, 29997(%rsp); ...". < 1268866827 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Which is why making it a constant might be a better idea ;-) < 1268866846 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, global < 1268866879 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I was hoping to get just a sequence of putchar() calls with constant-folded arguments, since the control-flow's so very simple here. < 1268866915 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How'd you optimize it < 1268867013 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1268867037 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I think the existing optimizing Brainfuck compilers turn hello.bf into puts("Hello World!"). I mean, there's a single loop with a fixed iteration count (that should be at least theoretically speaking possible to see) you'd only need to unroll, and then it'd be a small matter of combining some additions into constant values. < 1268867052 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Again: how'd you optimize it < 1268867093 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: What, me? Am I supposed to do something here? Isn't LLVM supposed to do everything for me. < 1268867095 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That's "how did", not "how would" < 1268867105 0 :lament!~lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1268867109 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, but what optimizer flags did you use :-P < 1268867132 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or full command lines; whatever < 1268867142 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I don't know anything about that stuff; to be honest, I haven't found the documentation very impressive. I just ran the llc command there; I don't think llvm-as has very many flags. < 1268867159 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, I figured you might've done that; that's tantamount to no optimization at all < 1268867164 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"opt" is the tool you want to use < 1268867177 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The llc optimizations are only machine-specific stuff like register allocation and instruction scheduling < 1268867195 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh-kay. That sounds a lot better. < 1268867199 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: llvm-as < foo.ll | opt -std-compile-opts -std-link-opts | llc -O3 > foo.s < 1268867228 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :llvm-as < foo.ll | opt -std-compile-opts -std-link-opts | llvm-dis to see what it actually did < 1268867319 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1268867576 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It still doesn't seem to be doing very much, actually. Though at least it can turn the meaty part of [>+++++++>++++++++++>+++>+<<<<-] into: addb $7, 9(%rsp); addb $10, 10(%rsp); addb $3, 11(%rsp); incb 12(%rsp); so it's not completely confused by my pointer math. < 1268867674 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it still includes those 30k stores of zero into rsp, even though it only uses fixed-K references of style K(%rsp) for some very low values of K and never actually alters %rsp in the function at all (except an addq $30008, %rsp in the end). < 1268867708 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If your array is local it has to zero it somehow < 1268867736 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does it need to zero those parts that are never referred to?-) < 1268867747 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because you asked it to? ;-P < 1268867810 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's like claiming that if I do "a = 42; a = 10;" it needs to set a to 42 first "because I asked to". < 1268867826 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really, that's a bit different < 1268867848 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~chatzilla@cpc4-sgyl29-2-0-cust108.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1268867855 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just wondering... < 1268867888 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Okay, so claiming that if I do "int a[2] = {42, 6669}; return a[0];" it needs to set a[1] to 6669 first "because I asked to". < 1268867894 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it worth it to implement a tape-based language with a potentially very long tape? < 1268867902 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like with a blocked, linked list? < 1268867903 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, that's it. < 1268867977 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Right, well, GCC doesn't do that (if I tell it to optimize, anyway). :p < 1268868049 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Unoptimized it does "movl $42, -16(%rbp); movl $6669, -12(%rbp); movl -16(%rbp), %eax;" -- with -O2 it's just "movl $42, %eax".) < 1268868057 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly my case is a little more complicated. < 1268868103 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a bit surprised at that assembly output, though I might be using it wrong. It does things like: < 1268868127 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : movb $0, 8(%rsp) < 1268868127 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : movb 8(%rsp), %al < 1268868127 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : addb $10, %al < 1268868127 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : movb %al, 8(%rsp) < 1268868134 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: This is interesting: with an array of size 128 LLVM optimizes all manner of whatnot but with 129 it doesn't. < 1268868137 0 :charlls!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Saliendo < 1268868181 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the store is a single piece of bitcode and it can't break it up, but on the other hand it doesn't even seem to realize that 8(%rsp) is zero anyway there. < 1268868275 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'm doing that store [128 x i8] zeroinitializer business and it's optimizing a load from the first index into the constant zero, but with array size 129 it doesn't. < 1268868302 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or anything else bigger than 128) < 1268868343 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That actual [>+++++++>++++++++++>+++>+<<<<-] loop turns into a reasonably sensible bit of assembly, though. http://pastebin.com/YabDwrDG -- though even there I do have to wonder about that looping condition. < 1268868641 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: clang appears to codegen array initializations as assigning each element separately; that'll likely work better for you too < 1268868680 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The loop is especially interesting since it's so clever; in the original LLVM code the loop is: %v1 = load i8* %mem; %v2 = sub i8 %v1, 1; store i8 %v2, i8* %mem; %termc = icmp ne i8 %v2, 0; br i1 %termc, label %Block1, label %Block2; < 1268868725 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LLVM does crazy stuff with "simple" numeric loops < 1268868748 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's rather clever. < 1268868750 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it compares the result of the subtraction against 0; after "opt" it actually compares the before-subtracting value against 1. I guess it might be some sort of instruction-scheduling thing. < 1268868816 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is malloc guaranteed to give you zeroed memory? < 1268868819 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1268868822 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No. < 1268868822 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No, you want calloc for that. < 1268868830 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good, good. < 1268868847 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GC_MALLOC will, though. < 1268868868 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1268868872 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the zeroed memory you get from calloc() or memset() is not guaranteed to be suitable for non-integer types; it might not contain the correct NULL pointer values, for example. < 1268868900 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I've met a lot of people who zero pointer-containing structures with memset and live to tell the tale, though.) < 1268868912 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, how can it give zeroed ints but not pointers? < 1268868926 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: NULL is not necessarily represented by a 0. < 1268868930 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the NULL pointer is not necessarily represented by all-bits-zero. < 1268868940 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? < 1268868954 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is merely required that a cast from integer constant 0 to a pointer is NULL. < 1268868976 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1268869004 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So (void *) 0 == NULL need not be true? < 1268869006 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is perfectly valid for NULL to actually be 0xDEADBEEF. < 1268869019 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, ((void *) 0) must be NULL. < 1268869023 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 in a pointer context is NULL, so (void*)0 == NULL. < 1268869032 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, ((int)NULL) does not necessarily equal 0. < 1268869040 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1268869066 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, for real-world (for some values of "real", anyway) examples of these cases: http://c-faq.com/null/machexamp.html "Seriously, have any actual machines really used nonzero null pointers, or different representations for pointers to different types?" < 1268869067 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if I calloced some memory with pointers in it, the pointers would be null? < 1268869071 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1268869078 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because calloc just sets the bits to zero. < 1268869088 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: For most systems, not all of them. < 1268869101 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm so confused! < 1268869107 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes, I guess it's fair to say that they have a very good chance of being NULL. < 1268869126 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All machines that have been manufactured in the last 20 years, say < 1268869130 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can it set the bits to 0 and not set it to 0, which is NULL when cast to a pointer? < 1268869142 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C guarantees that casting 0 to a pointer gives you NULL < 1268869156 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: 0 is not necessarily the actual bit representation of a NULL. < 1268869162 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got that. < 1268869174 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is merely required that ((void*)0) gets you NULL, *WHATEVER THE HELL IT ACTUALLY IS*. < 1268869195 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it required that int x = 0; (void*)x == NULL ? < 1268869207 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or does it have to be the constant zero < 1268869220 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Don't think so. < 1268869238 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :const int x = 0; // Here, however, (void*)x == NULL. < 1268869255 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right < 1268869292 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Did you try the element-by-element initialization business? < 1268869348 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yes, just three seconds ago. It works a lot better; the .ll file initially has ugly 60k lines, but after opt there's actually no explicit zeros at all. < 1268869365 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aye, that's what I expected. < 1268869438 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION files an LLVM bug
< 1268869488 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So does it get to puts("Hello world")? ;-) < 1268869494 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Presumably not) < 1268869517 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Are you sure about that? It needs to be "an integer constant expression with the value 0", and the C 'const's aren't really constant expressions: "An integer constant expression shall have integer type and shall only have operands that are integer constants, enumeration constants, character constants, sizeof expressions whose results are integer constants, and floating constants that are the immediate operands of casts." < 1268869622 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1268869832 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Mwahaha... when I made that explicit "%zN = getelementptr [30000 x i8]* %tape, i32 0, i32 N; store i8 0, i8* %zN;" for all N = 0 .. 29999 in the .ll file, what came out in the assembly was "sub rsp, 30008; lea rdi, [rsp]; xor esi, esi; mov rdx, 30000; call memset;" :D < 1268869851 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_o < 1268869869 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't even have any sort of memset function declared anywhere or anything. :p < 1268869881 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, they try to optimize common idioms like that < 1268869902 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :call void @llvm.memset.i64(i8* %z0.i, i8 0, i64 30000, i32 1) nounwind < 1268869910 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually that's in the opt'd .bc file too, it seems. < 1268869915 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looked messy enough that I missed it. < 1268869922 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just a bit surprised that the zeroinitializer thing didn't do that. Not very, though, since it tends to depend on whether llvm-gcc or Clang output such code. :-P < 1268870035 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: There's still quite a bit of explicit computation, though: http://pastebin.com/P0vJXANt < 1268870070 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks for the Intel asm ;-) < 1268870090 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Pastebin's syntax highlighting only has a NASM mode. :p < 1268870102 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to depend on that first loop which it can't reduce, evidently. < 1268870105 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's still not exactly nasm-compatible, but close enough. < 1268870120 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does inline the brainfuck function into main, it seems. < 1268870122 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have a .ll or .bc, I can run it through LLVM trunk if you want. < 1268870203 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, hello.ll: http://zem.fi/~fis/hello.ll < 1268870232 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 megs >_< < 1268870247 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :60k lines of zero-initialization. :p < 1268870254 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That .bc would likely have been a bit smaller. < 1268870254 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should just call memset by myself. < 1268870304 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: In trunk, it no longer calls memset. < 1268870314 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. Does it still have that loop there? < 1268870334 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has 30000 movb's to start with. < 1268870348 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, a loop, though it looks a bit different. < 1268870376 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or no, that may have been my fault: I used -regalloc=pbqp instead of the default. < 1268870381 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1268870395 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, that doesn't actually matter, it's still a bit different.