00:00:26 there it is gone 00:02:04 you're strange. 00:02:04 really terribly strange 00:02:50 alise what do you have against nasa? 00:03:10 fun fact: "nasa" means "crazy" 00:03:19 :3 00:03:26 well you misinterpret gregor's joking "fail" as serious and then you say some sort of can't-tell-if-it's-serious space conspiracy stuff a second later :P 00:03:43 you are just impossible alise!!! 00:05:45 If I start falling in love with Ruby, is that a bad thing? 00:05:51 Sgeo: yes. 00:05:56 yeah I think ruby sucks 00:06:09 except it's kind of useful.... 00:06:16 but appart from that...... 00:06:17 also, you realise that there's going to be a point in your programming career when you /can't/ just ask us an answer to every dilemma :) 00:06:36 lol 00:07:01 Considering that I'm still going to keep messing with Ruby regardless of complaints about it in this channel.. 00:08:29 it's okay 00:08:34 alise complains about everything 00:08:44 Unix domain sockets are difficult to find information about. 00:08:55 and is thus not an objective test of the goodness of a language 00:09:29 Sgeo: then don't ask. 00:09:30 coppro: no, I don't complain about everything 00:09:33 I'd like to know how to open one, listen on one, see who's on the other end of one, and read and write stuff. 00:09:43 On the one hand, I want to agree, on the other hand, coppro is a C++ sympathizer >.> 00:09:45 merely most things that tend to be talked about at length 00:10:07 No offense 00:10:08 Sgeo: I'm not a blind one though 00:14:59 -!- alise_ has joined. 00:15:27 at&t customer service chat ftw 00:17:09 -!- alise__ has joined. 00:18:32 -!- alise has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:19:16 -!- alise_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:19:38 Hmm. Linux has less system calls than Lojban has gismu. I could just learn them all. :P 00:19:43 * cpressey 's soul is bleeding 00:21:00 -!- alise has joined. 00:21:28 -!- alise__ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:23:12 mention of lojban = ban 00:23:51 That's why they call it Loj-BAN 00:24:00 yeah exactly 00:24:03 Mention of logic language = language? 00:24:10 What if I mention patching the Linux kernel so that it's a MOO? 00:24:35 what the hell is logical about lojban 00:24:42 I have no idea. 00:24:43 it's the most illogical thing I know :| 00:25:16 MissPiggy: consistency 00:25:33 I've already been banned from my lodge. 00:25:55 I looked at the Grand Poo-Bah funny. 00:27:35 Is your lodge Agora? 00:28:04 The Grand Poo-Bah is not from Agora 00:29:39 I know that. 00:30:23 Polished, vertical walls are consistent too, and climbers just loooove them. 00:30:49 Sorry, it's the best analogy I know for why consistency + spoken language = not exactly a love affair 00:31:35 Lojban isn't the most interesting thing ever. 00:31:39 But I like how it relates to propositional logic. 00:31:46 Which is probably the real Loj in Lojban. 00:31:56 ban 00:31:57 ban 00:31:57 The irregularities in natural language seem to work like coding theory stuff, sometimes? 00:31:58 ban 00:32:01 ban 00:32:05 alise have you read laws of form? 00:32:13 i'm gonna be the only person remaining in the channel at this rate 00:32:19 has anyone here?? 00:33:08 lament: "mention of lojban = ban" 00:33:13 even you will not be spared, surely? 00:36:00 MissPiggy: Maybe? 00:36:36 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_of_Form 00:36:51 I haven't read the work. I have read that page. A long time ago. 00:36:55 alise: I'm exempt 00:36:59 i'm above the law 00:37:14 Anyway, have to go home to try to fix my internet now. 00:37:15 cpressey I read the book it's kinda wild 00:37:28 alise seems to have given up on me 00:37:31 MissPiggy: It sounds like of like an esolang-logical-system 00:37:38 :D 00:37:42 mathematical philosophy is 100% bullshit 00:37:45 from concentrate 00:37:51 alise: :) 00:37:57 also, winge winge winge 00:38:15 alise stfu !!!!! 00:38:27 But every time I say I didn't enjoy "Goedel, Escher, Bach", people look at me as if I'm stupid. 00:38:31 you wouldn't know philosophy if it hit you in the face 00:38:31 Ah well. 00:38:36 Later, folks. 00:38:38 -!- cpressey has left (?). 00:38:50 I enjoyed the dialogues, but the AI content is not so good 00:38:55 MissPiggy: Oh, shut up. 00:39:04 i enjoyed GEB 00:39:08 i only read like 50 pages though 00:39:14 couldn't read any more, it's so boring and retarded 00:39:18 alise why even bother telling me to shut up if you are ignoring me :| 00:41:15 lament: is it also your favourite bolton album; it blows? 00:41:25 what 00:42:58 * MissPiggy bites alise 00:47:52 -!- alise has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:48:44 I wonder why sys_waitpid takes an int *. 00:48:59 I only read about one page of GEB before I started to think it was boring and retarded 00:49:09 You read the wrong page, then. 00:49:12 uorygl: ... to put the status into ... 00:49:24 Gregor: well, that makes sense. 00:49:38 Note that I have no idea what sys_waitpid is for. 00:49:38 Seeing as that waitpid(2) takes such an int * :P 00:49:52 ... good. 00:49:57 man 2 waitpid 00:50:11 Is (2) all about system calls? 00:50:58 Huh, I don't have that page. 00:51:21 FAH EEL 00:52:10 -!- alise has joined. 00:52:22 I'm guessing that in general, "foo" is input to the system call, "foo *" is output, and "const foo *" is input. 00:54:27 http://www.amazon.com/review/RI94SG7XY5YG3/ref=cm_cr_rdp_perm ;; here 00:54:41 etc: http://www.amazon.com/gp/pdp/profile/AKLYH2CI11XJN/ref=cm_cr_rdp_pdp 00:55:07 er i mean http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/AKLYH2CI11XJN/ref=cm_pdp_rev_all?ie=UTF8&sort_by=MostRecentReview 00:56:06 Where do I get those man pages? 00:57:16 -!- MizardX has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 00:57:18 Tuberwebsa 01:00:51 haha, I forgot this: "Yes, Ms. Newsom is a sort of Joni Mitchell meets Yvonne Trent (my fictional name for a singer who is Joanna Newsom minus Joni Mitchell)," 01:03:31 What a useless statement :P 01:04:34 Hm. Might it make sense for me to Google for one of my passwords [I've used the Gmail password, so it's not like the Google folks don't ha.. wait, they don't have it] 01:05:24 Just did it. No results =D 01:05:37 No, you don't get a screenshot 01:06:04 Gregor: that /may/ be intentional... 01:06:04 :p 01:06:48 -!- lament has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 01:07:35 -!- lament has joined. 01:08:17 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:09:03 "But, this I'm right about: Franz Ferdinand is a person, not a band. Look at the name! It's a first and last name! Why would a band have one person's name? So, they could get on planes with only having to buy one ticket? I think they're too rich at this point to worry about that. And, what would happen when they actually had to sit down in the plane? No attendant is going to let the rest of the "band" stand the whole flight." 01:15:04 Someone has a strong belief that band names have to make sense. 01:15:39 Or simply has a strong desire to prove themselves right. 01:16:15 Which, as we all know, is the most evil desire on the face of the Earth. 01:17:08 Or is a joke account 01:23:48 -!- alise has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:48:32 -!- oerjan has joined. 02:06:11 It's somewhat easy to translate simple ones to Ruby <-- mechanically translating list comprehensions is listed in the haskell report: http://www.haskell.org/onlinereport/exps.html#sect3.11 02:06:41 the syntax is of course different 02:06:47 -!- MissPiggy has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 02:07:05 (closer to set comprehensions in math) 02:08:31 you're probably missing the part with concatmap ? 02:17:44 That's mechanically translating Haskell list comprehension syntax to non-sugared Haskell? 02:17:56 yep 02:18:18 How about non-sugared Haskell -> Ruby? 02:18:46 concatMap = concat . map, or flatten and map from what i glanced from the logs 02:19:21 assuming flatten is not recursive, that would be evil. 02:19:37 * Sgeo is being... I think Ruby's flatten IS recursive. Hold on 02:20:10 Yep 02:20:15 -!- benuphoenix has joined. 02:20:23 irb(main):002:0> [[[1, 2], [3,4]], 5, 6].flatten 02:20:23 => [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6] 02:20:25 Hi benuphoenix 02:20:32 hi Sgeo 02:20:42 well that may mess things up then 02:21:34 To do a one-level flatten, map append 02:21:54 oh mutation 02:22:11 flattenOnce(x) = map(append, x), or whatever the ruby version would be 02:22:23 which lang is this? 02:22:37 ruby 02:22:42 I just made that up 02:22:51 oh 02:22:57 Well, what if some elements aren't lists? 02:23:16 Then add that as a special case 02:23:24 !help 02:23:25 help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help . 02:23:32 * Sgeo is too focused on SG-1 right now to write Ruby (!) 02:23:39 Make your own append function that appends items and lists 02:23:54 Sgeo: you won't have a use for non-list elements for this case, haskell concat only applies to lists of lists (of the same type) 02:24:00 -!- benuphoenix has left (?). 02:26:00 also if the end result is not a list of lists, you should be able to postpone it to a single flatten at the end, i think. 02:32:49 by using the monad laws for lists *mad evil cackle 02:32:51 * 02:33:39 curses, my plan would have succeeded if not for that meddling return key 02:36:08 i hate monads 02:44:07 Now to see who he really is! 02:44:12 * Gregor pulls of oerjan's mask 02:44:27 * Gregor pulls off oerjan's mask, even 02:44:40 boo! 02:44:42 -!- Asztal has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 02:44:48 -!- cheater2 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:44:59 also ouch, my face! 02:45:49 Old man Johansen! I should have known! 02:46:53 you kids get off my lawn! 02:48:05 haha 02:54:36 No wait, Scooby and the gang never were even close, they were always more like "Old man Johansen?!" 02:59:39 that just means you are genre savvy 03:12:56 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 03:31:27 -!- charlls has joined. 03:31:44 -!- charlls has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:59:50 -!- coppro has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:06:41 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:07:45 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 04:09:56 -!- coppro has joined. 04:12:28 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:13:06 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 04:13:11 -!- augur has joined. 04:13:23 sup foos 04:13:26 coppro: i figured out the GR thing 04:13:30 or was it oerjan 04:13:33 both of yoj 04:13:59 when GR describes non-interial FoR's as equivalent to inertial FoR's with gravity 04:14:11 what is meant is not what the universe looks like from that FoR 04:14:22 but rather what the FoR looks like to someone inside it 04:14:52 so a _closed box_ that is accelerating, is indistinguishable from, and equivalent to, a non-accelerating version on a planets surface 04:15:31 if you could see out, that breaks the equivalence, thats not what GR is about. its about the local physics of the FoRs, not the apparent physics of the world outside the FoR 04:31:20 -!- oklopol has joined. 04:34:37 -!- oerjan has joined. 05:16:32 -!- amca has joined. 05:34:58 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 05:35:34 -!- augur has joined. 05:39:28 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: And again). 05:54:21 Unix domain sockets are difficult to find information about. <-- man 7 unix 05:56:21 bbl 06:08:11 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:08:45 -!- oklopol has joined. 06:54:18 -!- oklopol has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 06:56:18 -!- jcp has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 07:00:49 -!- tombom has joined. 07:07:58 -!- cheater2 has joined. 07:08:16 It would have been wonderful it someone had pointed out man 7 unix to me 18 hours ago. 07:08:25 It would have saved me about 18 hours. 07:20:02 -!- coppro has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:25:15 -!- kar8nga has joined. 07:33:30 -!- oklopol has joined. 07:42:30 -!- oklopol has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 07:50:11 -!- tombom has quit (Quit: Leaving). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:03:26 -!- oklopol has joined. 08:05:42 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:06:10 -!- oklopol has joined. 08:29:04 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:29:42 -!- oklopol has joined. 08:40:12 Like my mini webpage? (http://circastudios.site50.net/dev_squid/) 08:42:51 * dev_squid is going to bed. 08:47:38 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 08:48:25 -!- dev_squid has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 09:02:31 -!- oklopol has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 09:10:12 Aww, the text is in images. 09:18:11 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:55:04 -!- MizardX has joined. 10:01:19 -!- oklopol has joined. 10:22:18 -!- oklopol has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 11:04:35 -!- amca has quit (Quit: Farewell). 11:35:40 -!- kar8nga has joined. 12:23:38 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:35:02 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 12:42:28 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (*.net *.split). 12:42:57 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:44:31 -!- oerjan has joined. 12:47:56 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 12:51:01 -!- fungot has quit (*.net *.split). 12:56:14 -!- MizardX has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:04:31 -!- MizardX has joined. 13:19:54 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 13:21:47 -!- MissPiggy has joined. 13:45:39 -!- hiato has joined. 13:47:59 -!- augur has joined. 14:03:59 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 14:10:42 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 14:12:14 -!- alise has joined. 14:24:40 -!- scarf has joined. 14:27:00 -!- alise has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 14:28:55 -!- alise has joined. 14:29:20 scarf: is there anything useful in the stock windows or should i just nuke it and put ubuntu on? 14:29:31 Also, what kind of battery life 14:30:29 do you get? 14:30:29 Mine says 8 hours, then in a few minutes 6, then 5 14:30:35 hi 14:30:35 4hr32m remaining apparently now 14:30:36 alise: the stock windows is necessary to change most of the settings, like wireless killswitch, etc 14:30:50 and on Ubuntu, around 4 to 5 hours depending on what I'm doing, although the battery claims 8 when full 14:30:54 * alise plugs it in 14:30:58 * alise turns off ECO MODE 14:31:06 actually i'll keep it on 14:31:09 so it charges more for the journey 14:31:21 what I've done is resized the Windows partition smaller, and put Ubuntu on the other half 14:31:27 leaving it dual-boot, but only ever booted to Linux 14:31:38 scarf: I'll probably do some AnMaster-style hypertweaking for battery life 14:31:55 powertop! 14:31:59 Ideally I would back up the Windows partition somewhere then nuke it 14:32:08 But on a 3G stick connection, that seems unreasonable 14:32:16 Especially as it's £15/gig 14:32:18 although note, that powertop has a tendency to do obnoxious things like turn your mouse off altogether to save power 14:32:27 Just downloading Ubuntu will cost almost that 14:32:33 (Well, cost as in train the top-up.) 14:32:40 scarf: XD 14:32:59 Mine will have inferior battery life to yours because of the bigger screen, most likely 14:33:22 (to be precise, it turns USB autosuspend on, and moving the mouse doesn't turn it back off again, so you have to unplug and replug the mouse to get it to work 14:33:24 ) 14:34:27 I should have cleaned this (grubby display model! Probably grubby, at least) with something other than wet kitchen roll, there are little specks of it everywhere 14:34:34 Didn't really have anything else to use, though. 14:34:47 my laptop seems to be imposible to clean 14:34:47 scarf: ah, well I'll be using the trackpad 14:35:02 It's rather shiny, it's very easy to spot fingerprints ad stuff on it 14:35:17 But I just wanted to get the grubbiness off, just in case they didn't clean it very well before boxing it up 14:35:37 The trackpad on this is rather crappy, I keep side-of-trackpad scrolling by mistake 14:35:43 and it isn't very well ridged so i keep nudging it 14:36:21 alise: the stock windows is necessary to change most of the settings, like wireless killswitch, etc <-- huh 14:36:36 AnMaster: yes, it confuses me too 14:36:38 that is one advantage with thinkpad, things like that just work in linux 14:36:47 also, how do you use the mousepad/volume control? 14:36:54 I suspected Fn+ due to the colour but neither fn nor fn-switch work 14:36:56 erm 14:36:57 not mousepad 14:36:59 numberpad thing 14:37:03 volume control is fn-3, fn-4 14:37:14 scarf, also the kill switch on mine is definitely physical disconnect/connect-style 14:37:18 does it not give any feedback or something? 14:37:19 mouse pad is fn-f10 14:37:35 *numpad 14:37:36 scarf, since the bluetooth and wlan units are simply gone from lsusb/lspci after switching it 14:37:40 hmm 14:37:41 numberpad 14:37:42 not mousepad 14:37:45 7-0, u-p, j-;, m-/ 14:37:48 those ones 14:37:55 yep, you turn that on and off with fn-f10 14:38:01 also, I'm rather pleased with this keyboard layout 14:38:03 and the feedback is one of the lights on the front which is easy to miss 14:38:20 it doesn't seem to have any abominations against layout in it 14:38:34 I'd prefer shift was the rightmost key but it's not such a big deal 14:38:47 control, fn, super, alt, backquote, space at the bottom left is annoying, it's so easy to hit the wrong one 14:38:59 Backquote at the bottom left? 14:39:00 although a bigger screen for you may imply a less cramped layout 14:39:02 Not for me. 14:39:06 although note, that powertop has a tendency to do obnoxious things like turn your mouse off altogether to save power <-- for usb mouse maybe 14:39:06 I'm on UK layout though 14:39:09 For me the bottom row is: 14:39:10 yep, looks like bigger screen = bigger keyboard 14:39:12 AnMaster: yes 14:39:17 yes don't enable usb autosuspend 14:39:18 Ctrl, Fn, Win, Alt, space, alt gr, menu, ctrl, arrow keys 14:39:18 when it asks 14:39:42 Second to bottom is shift, \|, ..., /?, shift, pgup/pgdn vertically 14:39:51 alise: yours is very similar to mine, except mine puts ` and \ to the right of the two alt keys respectively 14:39:57 leaving the spacebar rather small 14:39:58 (to be precise, it turns USB autosuspend on, and moving the mouse doesn't turn it back off again, so you have to unplug and replug the mouse to get it to work) <-- in a different physical port even 14:40:00 for me 14:40:18 Fn-f10 just enables the arrows 14:40:18 (after that the original port works again though) 14:40:21 I think it's f11 for numbers 14:40:35 yep 14:40:39 err, yes, f11 14:40:42 I said the wrong thing 14:40:49 enable arrows? 14:40:51 what? 14:41:05 don't you have arrow keys by default? 14:41:06 also, are you /sure/ fn-3/4 works? 14:41:08 AnMaster: u8ok for arrows 14:41:10 I see no feedback whatsoever 14:41:15 alise: it does on Ubuntu, I'm not sure on Windows 14:41:19 although, I think I bound those myself 14:41:20 AnMaster: numpad arrows 14:41:23 ah 14:41:29 maybe it just does it silently 14:41:36 system|preferences|keyboard shortcuts 14:41:49 what colour is yours? to go on to the most inane subject of this laptop 14:41:56 mine's red, that's all they had though 14:41:57 alise, does it have a separate numpad or such? Or why is a numpad even useful on a laptop 14:42:07 but it correctly detects fn-3 as XF86AudioLowerVolume, fn-4 as XF86AudioRaiseVolume 14:42:11 AnMaster: some programs require numpad 14:42:11 AnMaster: It's part of the alphanum part 14:42:16 hm 14:42:17 alise: mine's black, but the packaging said it was red 14:42:23 Also, for e.g. spreadsheet number entry 14:42:31 And if you like that way of movement 14:42:35 inc. home,end,pgup,pgdown etc 14:42:37 btw my thinkpad as NmLk on Fn-ScrLk 14:42:41 which is quite strange 14:42:49 scarf: lol 14:42:56 ScrLk is surely even more seldomly used? 14:42:57 It's not a shiny red which is nice 14:43:14 AnMaster: so you can scroll look on boot, I guess 14:43:23 where Fn doesn't work 14:43:27 scroll lock is actually kind-of useful in Excel 14:43:29 alise, hm I think fn works there 14:43:40 are you sure? 14:43:41 alise, since fn itself generates no key event 14:43:54 ooh, fn-f9 seems to be implemented in hardware 14:44:01 that's the key combo to turn the touchpad on/off 14:44:05 could be useful when typing 14:44:08 alise, and Fn-PgUp (turn on keyboard light thingy above screen) doesn't generate any key event (other Fn+* generates key events) 14:44:15 but that is one key event for fn+whatever 14:44:21 not one for fn and one for whatever 14:44:41 scarf: but I'm used to mouse-based OSs, so I'd be hitting it every few seconds 14:44:48 admittdly myabe not as much, because the trackpad is kind of crap 14:44:50 *maybe 14:44:58 so I'll probably adapt 14:44:58 *admittedly 14:45:14 Its complete silence most of the time freaks me out to no end 14:45:19 scarf, alas, that is one thing annoying me, there is a turn touchpad off thingy for mine. But under linux that disables touchpad, touchpad buttons, and *trackpoint buttons* 14:45:23 TALK TO ME COMPUTER 14:45:28 only the trackpoint itself is left enabled 14:45:33 making it completely useless 14:45:42 (I want to have the trackpoint buttons left enabled of course! 14:45:45 ) 14:45:49 Bind'em to some key combo :P 14:45:59 AnMaster: you use it while typing, to avoid clicking by mistake 14:46:20 scarf, yes but hitting the buttons for the trackpoint is rather hard 14:46:45 scarf, the issue I have is "palm on touchpad" 14:46:53 not "palm on trackpoint buttons" 14:47:03 for me, it's the base of the thumb 14:47:24 well, yes, base of thumb/palm, somewhat the overlap 14:47:28 scarf: I like how there's a ridge on the caps lock key, except the keys are so flat anyway that it doesn't stop any mistakes whatsoever 14:47:29 I'm surprised by how thin and light this thing is for the price 14:47:30 Probably as thin as a MacBook 14:47:45 scarf, fiddling with the palm detection setting in the synaptics config tool helped somewhat 14:48:08 alise: yes, heh 14:48:21 are you planning to swap caps lock and control? I haven't, maybe I should 14:48:23 alise, that ridge: same on mine 14:48:23 All in all I'm rather happy with my first venture into laptop-land, and PC-laptop-land at that. 14:48:55 alise, at least the windows key is quite flat 14:48:56 scarf: Why does every single key have a tiny ridge, I wonder? 14:48:57 I might just disable caps lock entirely 14:48:58 AnMaster: Yes, but even moreso on this laptop: The key travel is <10mm 14:48:59 I'm sure 14:48:59 More like 5? 14:49:01 and not as horrible as on desktop keyboards 14:49:06 Totally flat here. 14:49:07 alise, ah... 14:49:36 alise: probably to make them easier to separate after manufacturing them 14:49:41 Apparently this thing is designed for the thin/light/battery sort of market 14:49:43 So it's rather flat all over 14:49:55 and I'm used to a key travel that small; it feels like a lot of effort to push keys on a desktop 14:50:03 you can still feel the travel, even though it's a small one 14:50:40 alise, the diff here is maybe 1-2 mm for the ridge thingy. Key travel is... uh about twice the height of the key cap itself. That is when I press down the key fully, the top of it is roughly at the same level as the lower edge of the key caps around it 14:50:42 Yes, but I've used a scissor-switch board and even that had more key travel 14:50:46 (It was almost flat itself) 14:50:50 which would make it 5 mm maybe? 14:50:50 even the other laptops I tried had much more travel 14:50:52 I'm not complaining; it's just weird. 14:50:58 maybe 6-7? 14:51:18 in any case, it is quite okay to type on if you are used to a full size pc keyboard 14:51:38 -!- kar8nga has joined. 14:51:47 This thing doesn't even travel the depth of the very thin keycaps 14:51:49 *keycap 14:51:51 I bet any less travel and you couldnt 14:51:53 make it reliable 14:52:03 heh 14:52:43 alise, are the main area of the keys (alphanumeric, shift, enter, backspace, tab, caps lock) "full sized"? 14:52:58 well apart from height of course 14:53:15 -!- oklopol has joined. 14:53:42 also I don't get how anyone can live with less than 15" on a laptop that is used for extended periods... 14:53:51 I mean, 15" is somewhat cramped 14:55:16 The screen on this thing is very nice despite being glossy. 14:55:16 I'm using it in sunlight now and it's completely legible 14:55:49 laptop screens tend to work rather nicely in sunlight, I find 14:56:02 AnMaster: I use 11", and have for months 14:56:41 scarf, I know 14:56:56 * AnMaster considers a toughbook 14:57:06 of course it wouldn't be really nice to use 14:57:11 but it would last forever 14:59:38 -!- alise has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:02:46 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (*.net *.split). 15:08:12 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 15:08:37 -!- jcp has joined. 15:24:27 -!- Yda-84 has joined. 15:25:01 O:-) 15:25:05 -!- Yda-84 has left (?). 15:31:08 -!- cbrowne has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 15:41:09 -!- cpressey has joined. 15:44:53 -!- alise has joined. 15:45:08 IRCing from inside a taxi: The most unreliable activity ever. 15:45:18 I wonder if this connection is even still working after the five seconds I've ben connectd. 15:45:21 *been, *connected 15:45:25 Someone pong. 15:45:30 alise pong 15:45:34 Woot. 15:46:14 Typing is not the easiest thing 15:47:25 Yay! "Inside a taxi" is the second best thing to "A truckstop outside El Paso". 15:47:26 But nerdery must transcend such petty constraints AAH GOD A CORNER 15:47:39 where are you going alise? 15:47:40 This taxi never stops. I am constantly in motion! 15:48:08 Heh, ten points if you get a passer-by at a red traffic light to type somehting 15:48:11 i.e., perpetually motivated! 15:48:11 Take that, physics! 15:48:46 oh god dammit bumpy road 15:48:46 badoing badgoin badoing 15:48:46 hiato: :D 15:49:19 alise: so that's a "there're no traiffic lights where I am" then? 15:49:22 i forsee people living entirely in gigantic housecars in the future 15:49:22 i can see no issues with this 15:49:36 save bathing 15:50:13 there are traffic lights but :P 15:50:13 also, how on earth will bathing be a problem? >_> 15:50:13 there are NO. ISSUES aaaah god corner 15:50:40 my point exactly 15:50:46 i sort of hvae a hard time using the entire keyboard while cornering... 15:51:25 shut UP 15:51:25 also, hi we missed you 15:51:25 (i am ehird) 15:51:35 now imagine your laptop to be a concave vessel, somewhat like a bathtub, but more like a laptop in apperance, less so in function. Now imagine that vessel full of water. Then, cue a red traffic light or an innocent stone in the road 15:51:47 alise: oh, heh, hi - wow, been a while :) 15:52:01 SUP ESOFAGS 15:52:28 Banks' non-Culture Against a dark background novel has (in a very minor part, just barely a mention) these things called "rest mobiles" that sound a bit like that, except that people just (seem to) use them for rest stops when traveling long distances over roads, as opposed to permanent places of habitation. 15:52:56 fizzie: [citation needed] 15:52:59 shut up augur hi 15:53:00 hiato: i see no issues 15:53:07 MissPiggy: ;) 15:53:12 except that if you want to use the water as a keyboard aaah corner 15:53:19 MissPiggy: you're turning into pthag 15:53:23 then it might not be very tactile 15:53:33 augur I doubt that somehow 15:53:37 OR ARE YOU PTHAG?! 15:53:46 augur, is shut up not a valid sentiment? 15:53:52 pthong 15:53:54 no. 15:53:57 pthong :D 15:54:02 almost there bye guys 15:54:11 pthag in a pthong 15:54:18 bye alise 15:54:30 alise: What I'm trying to eventually get to would be the need to start slowing down from the massive top speed of 60 (which is massive, when you consider the vehicle to be a house, or visa versa) about ten minutes prior to when you needed to stop, to avoid spillage (spilage/spiling/spillery and friends) 15:54:34 fizzie: banks! 15:54:36 hiato: "She rendezvoused with a rest-mobile, ramping up into the echoing parking hold of the Air Cushion Vehicle and leaving the car for refuelling while she stretched her legs." (And later she sleeps and eats breakfast on one; then they're not mentioned again.) 15:54:59 fizzie: Project Gutenburg? 15:55:11 hiato: No, just illegal ebook warez nastiness. 15:55:11 * hiato gives +100 points to fizzie for an actual citation 15:55:34 Do you deduct points for the source being of dubious legality?-) 15:55:46 I do now 15:56:10 fizzie: im making a videogame with OCPs :D 15:56:10 but then again, it depends from whom exactly you stole 15:57:38 if it's from me, -1000000000000000.6, if not, S.E.P 15:58:12 I doubt you would have received any royalties from that. I don't exactly know where it came from; it was on this CD. 15:58:18 -!- alise has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:58:25 == S.E.P 15:58:39 Someone has written "v1.0 (17-mar-01) Scanning, layout and quick proofing by 4i Publications" on top of it. 15:59:19 again, S.E.P. Industrial book-spy perhaps? It's all the rage these days 16:01:09 what happened to ais523? 16:01:15 I'm here 16:01:20 just under a different nick 16:01:24 Aha, also did the shuffle 16:01:42 and "ais523" still pings me 16:02:02 really? nice 16:02:17 you can configure many IRC clients to ping on all sorts of words 16:02:22 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:02:23 mine pings on things like "ais523" and "INTERCAL" 16:02:28 baha 16:02:47 -!- oklopol has joined. 16:02:53 yeah, I guess I never did do man irssi 16:03:24 well, good to know that the comunity is still here, mostly 16:03:50 I use Konversation 16:03:50 hi oklocork 16:04:09 oklopoke I :((( 16:04:37 I looked up the solution to a problem I was doing and the answer was something I should have been able to do ;( 16:04:48 oklopol :D 16:04:52 * augur huggles okl 16:08:24 augur 16:08:30 d you have an ifile.it account 16:08:46 oh god dammit bumpy road <-- I sure hope he has "disk head parks itself based on accelerometer" 16:09:06 AnMaster: the Toshiba Satellite has an incredibly sensitive disk-parker 16:09:11 scarf, oh? 16:09:19 -!- MizardX- has joined. 16:09:20 -!- MizardX- has quit (Changing host). 16:09:21 -!- MizardX- has joined. 16:09:23 it seems like every ten seconds it parks itself, then pops up a little dialog box to let you know it parked 16:09:29 I'm not sure if it does that under Linux too, btw 16:09:32 hm 16:09:40 at least, no dialog box, so I don't know if it's parking 16:09:53 scarf, for thinkpads it needs an user space daemon 16:10:05 which is somewhat irritating as it causes rapid wakeups for polling 16:10:31 I avoid using my thinkpad when moving instead. Always use it on a sturdy table 16:10:34 anyway, he was on webchat, and therefore presumably Windows, and therefore using the autopark 16:11:06 scarf, I guess that wasn't meant as a far fetched joke? 16:11:12 no 16:11:15 (autopark -> automobile park) 16:11:16 I was being serious 16:11:18 (and in a taxi) 16:11:35 no pun intended; in fact, even after your explanation, I don't think there was a pun there 16:11:38 anyone care to look at this and then provide some feedback as to how I'd make this language more self-complete, that is, you should be able to emulate (mostly) an arbitrary piece of the language with other pieces. that means you cant natively have if's, while's and so on, but I'm stuck on argument parsing to methods (though tecnically anonymous methods need not be there and would solve my problem) 16:11:45 http://dpaste.com/168356/ 16:11:46 scarf, very far fetched one 16:12:10 * scarf looks 16:12:28 -!- MizardX has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 16:12:47 -!- MizardX- has changed nick to MizardX. 16:13:36 oh, and if you do look, ignore the code at the end, as that all depends on how arguments are parsed (if at all) 16:13:50 hiato: wow, that's a confusing language 16:13:59 :P 16:14:04 I applaud you for not just making more BF-derivatives, like most people do 16:14:17 I'll be happy to shed some light though 16:14:19 thanks :) 16:14:22 * MissPiggy made one hates ipile 16:16:15 hiato, for cell.(Q) better specify charset 16:16:45 hiato, or would it use the native one? Say EBCDIC on such a machine? 16:17:31 AnMaster: I'm not sure I understand what you mean? In this case, cell.(Q) is using Q as a literal, base 10 number 16:17:40 cell.X, however, could be confusing 16:17:50 hiato, so how does " "$()" is equivalent to 2369577 through this system" work? 16:17:57 hiato, how is that encoded? 16:17:59 ASCII? 16:18:04 Heh, figured it was vague 16:18:04 yep 16:18:08 if so that should be explicitly mentioned 16:18:20 encode as ASCII, then take those bytes as a standard number 16:18:27 ok, thanks, will mark that 16:18:33 hiato, why not UTF-8? 16:18:55 hiato, otherwise how would you encode a cell named å←→µ 16:19:00 For simplicity, really, but there is no real reason. Though, I guess it will also inflate the nubmers significantly 16:19:04 true, fair enough 16:19:27 hiato, for UTF-8, the lower 127 ASCII bytes would encode the same way 16:19:47 only some other things, such as that example would encode larger 16:19:48 though the argument could go that å##µ is merely a sequence of bytes that when grouped to the nearest 8 bits, would still yield a number that is unique for that string 16:19:52 wait 16:19:57 hm 16:20:01 it would work in fact 16:20:12 hiato, that wasn't ## in the middle 16:20:14 that was like: 16:20:16 <--> 16:20:33 I know, but I forget what key makes those arrows :P 16:20:51 and I'm currently not using a utf8 charset in xterm 16:20:59 hiato, AltGr+[yUui] 16:21:26 Ah, right 16:21:50 (though still produces a #) 16:21:57 hiato, yet you found å without iussues, which I thought was hard to type outside Scandinavia plus a few countries 16:23:09 Colemak ;) 16:23:26 mhm 16:24:43 as for the language itself, while handy, do you think that the ability to parse Message -> Anonymous Method -> Destination is needed? 16:25:03 hiato, what does that do 16:25:08 I haven't read the whole spec 16:25:12 if so, how would I implement a non-pattern matching scheme that can be replicatedwith non-anonymouse methods 16:25:17 due to being somewhat tired 16:25:59 right, "a b c" sends message "a" to cell or method "b" and then stores the result (or partial result, or whatever) in cell "c" 16:26:12 hiato, what about threads 16:26:22 hiato, you can do rather nice concurrency with message passing 16:26:31 (see for example the non-esolang erlang) 16:26:58 (which I used for more than one esolang interpreter) 16:26:58 You do like this: $ su -> # rm -f /* 16:27:03 hiato: coincidentally, trying to make pattern matching work with anonymous (unnamed) object is currently what I'm thinking about 16:27:19 cpressey, wrt. befunge-111? 16:27:21 I mean... it needs a name, so the pattern can match it, right? 16:27:28 Frustrating :) 16:27:34 AnMaster: but seriously, I guess I could put it in, but it's besides the point 16:27:40 cpressey: yeah, my predicament exactly 16:27:41 AnMaster: no. 16:27:45 if you find a way, let me know 16:27:58 hiato, just a suggestion, I don't know how well it would fit into things 16:28:00 No patterns in Befunge-111... 16:28:22 cpressey, true. Unless someone goes and spec PATS or something 16:28:41 (pattern matching befunge sounds horrible) 16:28:53 well, there is REXP for posix extended regex 16:29:00 and PCRE sounds like a nice fingerprint name I guess 16:29:06 AnMaster: right, sure, I'm always open to suggestions, but before I make this super complex, I need to work out the message parsing 16:29:19 hiato, right 16:31:30 on the complete flip side, I've also come up with another system that is way way easier. It's ASM like, but only has the commands: XOR, SHR, SHL, JMP. No conditional jumps, no add and friends, but I suspect it's turing complete. Oh, and it only has four registers and can only operate on two bits at a time 16:32:22 is the PC memory-mapped? 16:32:33 oh, no, that's what JMP's for 16:32:38 http://dpaste.com/168372/ 16:32:40 but presumably the program itself is memory-mapped 16:32:44 nope 16:32:57 hiato: have you seen the various OISCs? 16:32:59 no self-modification 16:33:02 scarf: yep 16:33:08 but this is unlike them in every way 16:33:12 there is no complex syntax 16:33:17 or conditional logic 16:33:28 or any logic except for XOR (which is not universal) 16:34:03 but, through careful use of shifts and xors (and the clever trick of treating the registers as stacks), you can do all of what you need (I guess) 16:35:10 hiato: ah, JMP is the unconditional computed jump, Malbolge-style 16:35:57 Er, right 16:35:59 yes 16:36:25 the interesting thing is how to make it conditional 16:36:51 "For example, "J 0,b" will 16:36:52 jump back precisely one insruction iff. the IP is odd, otherwise 16:36:52 forward one if the IP is even. You have been warned. 16:37:11 makes it kind of fun, when using XOR's instead of fixed offsets 16:37:23 it's possible to get by without any conditional jumps at all in a language 16:37:33 by messing with arithmetic 16:37:41 really? 16:37:46 -!- dev_squid has joined. 16:38:29 yep; the idea is, say you have a /lot/ of variables 16:38:32 do you have an example? but, in this case, there is no way of doing anything except applying various XOR masks, which, in this case suggest some ofrm of universitatility for XOR 16:38:45 right 16:39:06 then whenever you would do something, instead of b=a, you do something along the lines of b+=(a-b)*x 16:39:19 where you can turn the command on and off by messing with the value of x 16:39:38 that's the general principle; it would be interesting to see how few commands you can get away with 16:39:43 Right, but in essence you then need to compute all posibilites and "filter" them 16:39:47 yes 16:40:17 also, if it turned out that your language was TC without computed jumps, you wouldn't need SHR either 16:40:23 as instead, you could shift every other variable to the left 16:40:31 and just ignore the bottom bit for the rest of the program 16:40:35 as no command would care 16:40:42 I see what you're saying 16:40:49 which would be a godsend 16:41:11 NAND is probably better than XOR for that sort of thing, as you can implement any other logical operation in terms of it 16:41:29 Yeah, I knew that one, but that's what I wanted to avoid 16:41:35 but I'm not sure if you could get by with just four variables then 16:41:38 XOR is known to not be universal 16:41:46 yep 16:41:58 bceause it can't distinguish between 0 and 1 16:42:05 but with (really) two other commands and just four (or in essence) two variables, it would be enough 16:42:17 right 16:43:19 well actually, going back, because it only operates on the bottom two bits, I would need to keep shr 16:44:36 hmm, yes 16:44:39 -!- dev_squid has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:44:46 and going back further, do you think it would be possible to write a programme in your a*(maybe 0) language that, without needing to evaluate all possibilities, could then write the bit that did need to? 16:44:53 Also, in certain models of computation, XOR is the most complex function possible 16:45:02 (monotone circuits) 16:45:16 cpressey: it's annoying to implement even in hardware 16:45:22 cpressey: well, I have it down for three transistors, two diodes and one resistor 16:45:31 there's a reason people talk about NAND rather than NOR as universal, which is that you can do NAND with just the one transistor 16:45:46 hiato: DTL is pretty much an abandoned logic format nowadays 16:45:49 Mixing transistors and diodes -- nice. 16:45:54 not in my world :) 16:46:04 I can't remember why, but it was suboptimal somehow 16:46:18 I imagine it takes a bit more power to drive 16:46:21 yeah 16:46:24 was jsut about to say 16:46:52 as well as running into issues with a negative bias vs ground 16:47:11 oh, it's slower, takes up more silicon space, and requires three power rails 16:47:19 there we are 16:47:25 the last isn't quite an idea-killer, but the first two are 16:47:37 but, for a hobby project, i cant see the fuss 16:47:54 what does DTL stand for? 16:48:02 (which, might I add, is what SHI-3 is for, I wanted to build a RISC cpu) 16:48:10 Diode-Transistor Logic 16:48:20 ah 16:48:57 -!- hiato has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 16:49:06 hmm, it seems practical NAND gates need at least two transistors 16:50:01 oh? 16:50:54 -!- hiato has joined. 16:51:10 goddamn power failures 16:51:23 keep tripping the router 16:51:28 * hiato kisses his ups 16:52:39 hiato, you need to put the router out of where you walk then 16:52:46 of of the way of* 16:53:00 AnMaster: heh 16:53:19 interesting: 08:48:57 --- quit: hiato (Quit: Lost terminal) 16:53:28 what does that mean? 16:55:08 hiato: it means that the terminal that the client was running in closed, or it thought it did 16:55:15 it's likely the client's response to a SIGHUP 16:58:14 ah, right, thanks 16:58:45 MissPiggy: noone needs an ifile.it account 16:59:06 augur, I made one 16:59:11 why? 16:59:13 it was quite difficult but I managed i 16:59:21 I had to, to steal a book from the internet 16:59:26 no you dont 17:02:01 -!- tombom has joined. 17:02:36 okay 17:02:43 I don't know how to do it without an account 17:02:50 -!- MaXo2 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 17:02:55 are you SEARCHING using ifileit? 17:02:59 or just downloading? 17:03:14 no 17:03:34 because if you search through gigapedia you dont need an ifileit account to download 17:03:47 augur: okdponafpdunoadpounyafpdunyofpdoun 17:03:53 wut 17:05:20 -!- rishi__ has joined. 17:05:34 That sounds like a good name for an esolang 17:09:48 -!- rishi__ has left (?). 17:10:44 -!- scarf_ has joined. 17:11:03 -!- scarf_ has changed nick to ais523. 17:12:33 -!- scarf has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 17:25:40 Anybody have any new suggestions for what I do with the domain name sibeli.us? 17:26:13 Prokofiev fan site 17:26:27 Ooooooh, burn to the S-man :P 17:28:54 Well, it was intended more as an act of dada, than as a burn. 17:30:12 But since you mention it, I've never cared for Sibelius much. 17:31:09 -!- oklokok has joined. 17:31:15 -!- oklopol has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:32:02 -!- Asztal has joined. 17:33:54 -!- ais523 has changed nick to scarf. 17:34:45 And since I am open-minded, I'm listening to a Sibelius concerto via youtube right now. 17:35:54 -!- scarf has changed nick to ais523. 17:36:05 -!- tombom_ has joined. 17:37:03 -!- tombom has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:39:49 -!- oklokok has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:39:55 -!- oklofok has joined. 17:44:57 -!- oklofok has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 17:45:11 And it's not doing much for me. 17:45:15 Because I have taste. 17:45:16 OH 17:45:21 There's the burn. 17:46:29 A friend suggested a Sibelius-themed Generic Music Idol Band Hero Game 17:46:34 * cpressey notes that maxbru.ch is also available 17:46:53 Unfortunately, I'm not Ch(inese?) 17:47:01 china's .cn 17:47:31 I'm not (reverse domain lookup of .ch)ish. 17:47:35 -!- oklokok has joined. 17:47:41 Swiss, apparently. 17:50:17 I wonder which language Swiss reduces to 'ch' in ... 17:51:09 probably Swiss 17:51:20 if they have a language of their own 17:52:08 I think there's some old native language nobody speaks there, but they usually speak German, French and/or Italian (?) 17:52:11 It stands for "Confoederatio Helvetica" 17:52:32 Which is, uh. Latin. 17:52:44 dedicated to stamping out Arial! 17:52:52 cpressey: Oh, naturally :P 17:53:01 ais523: LOL. 17:53:16 And keep in mind, I never write "LOL" unless I actually laugh out loud. 17:53:22 And do you have to be Swiss to own a .ch domain, or can we actually get maxbru.ch? 17:53:47 cpressey: yay, another sacred defender of the meaning of the acronym LOL! 17:54:04 I hardly ever use it even if I do laugh out loud, because people wouldn't know what I meant 17:54:07 I generally use it that way, but I also laugh an embarrassing amount ... 17:54:21 I never write ROFL unless I actually roll on the floor laughing 17:54:27 ais523: *And*, I am in a cube at work, where it is currently pretty quiet. 17:54:34 and I never write IMHO unless my opinion is actually humble 17:54:41 lament: I don't think I've ever rolled on the floor laughing 17:54:50 I never write lollercoptahs unless I have actually turned into an anthropomorphic laughing helicopter. 17:54:53 i might have 17:54:58 loooool 17:55:08 Gregor: trying very hard not to LOL. 17:55:13 anthropololic 17:56:08 cpressey: same here 17:56:13 and I would get in trouble for doing it in this office 17:56:22 a lolita is a small feminine lol 17:56:29 lol 17:56:44 lament: X-D 17:57:22 lament: Brilliance. 18:01:37 lament: Oh, so you never write IMHO at all then? :) 18:02:36 I just use IMO, it's a lot more neutral 18:02:38 According to this bottle of Coke, I could win eighth notes, dollar signs or Tickets (with a capital 'T', because this is German) 18:02:40 cpressey: His opinions are not humble. 18:02:43 IMHO/IMNSHO are just pretentious 18:02:56 Gregor: is an eighth note 12.5¢? 18:02:56 IMHO, they are not pretentious. 18:03:01 pikhq: That was the implication, yes. 18:03:17 IMHO comes out a bit more naturally after studying Japanese. 18:03:27 Imm-ho 18:03:51 In my haughty opinion 18:04:01 In my naughty opinion 18:04:03 As do things like saying "probably" even when you're damned sure of something. 18:04:23 The Earth is probably round. 18:05:46 ... In sufficiently formal Japanese, that sentence would be said. 【お世界は丸そうでございます。」 18:06:01 ... s/【/「/ 18:06:21 http://www.toxel.com/tech/2010/03/04/cool-water-powered-jet-pack/ 18:06:23 in Japanese, being impolite is grammatically incorrect, isn't it? 18:06:30 ais523: No. 18:06:45 The impolite form of that is 世界が丸そう。 18:06:50 ais523: politeness is meaningless if impoliteness is impossible 18:07:08 And since I am open-minded, I'm listening to a Sibelius concerto via youtube right now. <-- always found Sibelius somewhat "heavy" 18:07:09 Erm. 18:07:12 hmm 18:07:15 世界が丸い。 18:07:34 hm I can't really express what I mean in English 18:07:44 So yeah, I guess since nobody's made any useful suggestions, I'll be makin' that Sibelius-themed Generic Music Idol Band Hero Game 18:07:45 (literal translation of the polite sentence: The humble world, would appear to most humbly be round.) 18:07:53 ais523: the whole point of etiquette is that you're polite to your superiors, and they aren't polite to you 18:09:02 pikhq: after i give a rigorous proof for something, i often add "or something like that" 18:09:29 oklokok: What should I do with the domain name sibeli.us? 18:09:55 Gregor: use it for the debonairly boorish fugues, etc 18:10:22 oklokok: Heheh. 18:11:10 IMHO/IMNSHO are just pretentious <-- I prefer IMPBPNHO 18:11:34 (not really) 18:12:00 Gregor: are you a big fan of sib? 18:12:03 In my Peanut-Butter-Porn Not Humble Opinion 18:12:25 oklokok: I am a neutral-to-moderate fan of Sibelius. 18:12:43 Gregor, I invoke rule 34 on that domain! 18:12:51 EWWWWW 18:12:52 i probably know much less about his works than you, i'm a bit patriotically challenged 18:12:53 what have I done... 18:13:32 OK, Sibelius-themed Generic Music Idol Band Hero Game it is :P 18:13:46 I just don't like his music. Too heavy and too melancholic 18:14:07 Then I'm sure you hate my music :P 18:14:21 Gregor, not really, yours is somewhat technically interesting 18:14:27 Sibelius is not 18:14:35 Gregor, if it wasn 18:14:58 wasn't* for the technical interesting parts of Liszt and Paganini I wouldn't really like those 18:15:02 as it is, I do like them 18:15:19 same reason i like your mom 18:15:31 ... wow. 18:15:43 lament, I can't think of any snappy reply to that one... 18:16:01 "Your mom is technically interesting" is ... maybe not an insult? Idonno. 18:16:18 Gregor, I have no clue 18:16:23 I don't like it either way I think 18:16:25 For the same reasons that I'm not a fan of his music, he makes a good subject for an Orchestra Hero game or whatever 18:16:44 cpressey, yeah, I would hate to see Kraus or Mozart subjected to that 18:16:44 cpressey: Now that's actually a compelling argument ... 18:16:49 Or Vivaldi 18:17:08 Gregor, so do you like Sibelius or not? 18:17:52 I am a neutral-to-moderate fan of Sibelius. His music is not amongst the somewhat small selection I listen to regularly, because I don't like him enough for that, but he's well over the dislike line. 18:18:32 Can't a guy have neutral opinions around here? P 18:18:33 *:P 18:19:26 maybe he can. 18:19:41 but then again, maybe not. It doesn't really matter. 18:19:47 imo 18:19:49 -!- Gregor has set topic: "Gwandocu (n): Extremely strong evidence, far beyond a reasonable doubt." | alise sighting counter currently out of sequence | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D. 18:20:12 Gregor, what about Schönberg? 18:20:17 it sounds like the thing you would like 18:20:34 I don't have a mental picture of his music off-hand, so Idonno. 18:20:47 And there is no .rg as far as I know anyway ;) 18:20:49 Gregor, disharmonic 18:21:00 Gregor, 12 tone scale and all that 18:21:24 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve-tone_technique 18:21:53 pdqba.ch is available :P 18:22:03 Gregor, yeargh 18:22:11 Gregor, is there .rt? 18:22:16 moza.rt 18:22:21 vival.di? 18:22:22 Already checked. 18:22:27 Gregor, hay.dn? 18:22:40 Gregor, hand.el? 18:22:40 Besides, these names are all too famous, they'd certainly have been bought. 18:23:08 Also, most national domains have restrictions with regards to citizenship :P 18:23:21 Which has the amusing effect that a Finn can't actually own the domain sibeli.us :P 18:23:28 kra.us (please don't do something bad with it. Joseph Martin Kraus is my all time favourite composer!) 18:23:46 Gregor, ^ 18:23:53 AnMaster: Squatted 18:24:01 mhm 18:26:07 Gregor, beethov.en? 18:26:11 is that a valid tld? 18:26:34 Doesn't eem to be. 18:26:37 *seem 18:26:42 poser.com 18:26:45 They would probably avoid it because people would think it was England. 18:26:49 Gregor, schuma.nn ! 18:26:57 Gregor, I really think his music is boring 18:27:09 The great nation of Nnonninnonn 18:27:11 sure, quite okay, but nothing really interesting 18:27:11 over here in England, we know that England doesn't have a TLD to itself 18:27:24 Gregor, it could be Netherlands or something... 18:27:29 Because England wurves Scotland, Wales and North Ireland so much :P 18:27:43 Also Gibraltar and the Island of Mann if I recall 18:28:30 Nope, wrong on all regards :P 18:28:34 Gregor, what about those two small islands in the English channel? 18:28:37 Spelling, TLD, membership in the UK :P 18:28:47 .ski? or .ki? 18:29:05 okay .ski would be a nice TLD 18:29:10 The only three-letter TLDs are the US ones and the generic ones, so you'd know it if it existed :P 18:29:15 imagine: imperative.ski 18:29:20 XD 18:29:24 bugger 18:29:33 hiato, ? 18:29:42 AnMaster, ? 18:29:50 why bugger 18:30:00 hiato, you gave us a great idea in the TLD discussion 18:30:00 I wanted tchaikov.ski 18:30:03 ah 18:30:03 (yaeh, I know) 18:30:04 :/ 18:30:25 or ru.ski 18:30:29 har 18:31:09 Gregor, btw .nu fills the same function in Sweden as .to does in English speaking countries (not exact same meaning, but equal large interest in it) 18:31:19 (sv:nu = en:now) 18:31:40 net means no in russian 18:31:54 mhm 18:31:55 several sites use that, like "no cockroaches" and "no beer" 18:32:23 I'm sure it's spelled differently though, isn't it pronounced "nyet"? 18:32:58 and, in Afrikaans/Dutch(German?) net means only 18:33:03 nʲet in IPA, net in translit 18:33:09 right 18:33:26 er, the vowel in IPA is wrong i'm sure, i don't really know it 18:33:59 well, neither do I, so you're right no matter what 18:34:55 AnMaster: it must be said that I only got the .ski joke now, wow, completely unintended on my behalf :P 18:35:26 heh 18:35:33 .ki are $900/year 18:35:36 but nicely played 18:35:51 * hiato is speechless, but can still make the occasional /me 18:36:00 I wonder what imperative SKI calculus would be like though 18:36:18 ais523, sounds like something for you to design ^ 18:36:20 ;) 18:36:44 maybe 18:36:49 heh, a = s k k "hello" 18:36:50 print a 18:36:55 SKI calculus can be pretty imperative as-is, though 18:36:58 fairly pointless 18:37:14 ais523, hm. What about imperative lambda calculus then? 18:37:25 sa,e 18:37:26 *same 18:37:28 python 18:37:32 Imperative haskell would of course beat most things to "bad idea of year" 18:37:41 hiato, declarative python! 18:37:44 you can compile imperative to haskell easily 18:37:51 ais523, hm 18:37:51 if you couldn't, it wouldn't really be powerful enough to be useful 18:38:02 AnMaster: as if it wasn't chock full of similarly bad ideas :P 18:38:03 admittedly, it usually isn't the best way to write it, but you can if you want to 18:38:14 hiato, I don't think going 18:38:27 *going "up" the scale is wrong 18:38:32 well it could be 18:38:46 but not necessarily so 18:38:55 Heh, [citation needed] 18:39:01 ;) 18:40:04 huh? 18:40:39 Never mind, to much wiki for meh brains today 18:40:49 hiato, of course it would need proper language support. And not be like that "lambdas in C" hack that pikhq did 18:40:55 pikhq, link to it now again? 18:42:18 Lambdas in C? Coincidentally, I have just discovered a marvellous little proof that no god can exist, written in CLambda, which this magin is too narrow to contain 18:42:37 hiato, it was done with some macros + gnu extensions 18:42:49 hiato, closures too btw 18:43:15 iirc it used two gcc extensions: nested functions and statement expressions 18:43:20 I cannot believe waht I'm hearing 18:43:42 hiato, then wait for pikhq to get here, he is in some US timezone 18:43:47 (iirc) 18:43:50 but, I take it, strict evaluation 18:44:03 hiato, ? 18:44:46 as in, writing any lambda expression would be evaluated immeditaely/reduced, irrespecive of whether it was further refernced or applied? 18:45:14 * hiato asks that all further typos be excused 18:45:37 as the way I see it, it's a macro, so it just reduced to some convoluted mess of C code that would execute 18:45:44 hiato, I don't know 18:45:45 AnMaster: Urgh. No no no no. 18:45:51 pikhq, why not? I want to see it 18:45:58 so do I 18:46:01 It's a pain to paste. 18:46:12 pikhq, why not just push a hg repo or whatever with it 18:46:14 somewhere 18:46:18 No hosting. 18:46:22 So send meh ur computerz thro teh interwebz 18:46:29 pikhq, bzr + launchpad? ;P 18:46:41 github is free for minor stuff, no? 18:46:45 Just a sec while I tar it up. 18:46:50 yaya 18:46:50 hiato, but that requires git -_- 18:47:01 Am I missing something? 18:47:31 hiato, yes perhaps: that I think git is the worst dvcs when it comes to user interface. 18:47:38 ah, so this is one of those places that hg >> bza >> svn >> cvs == True 18:47:44 bzr is just so much easier to use 18:47:48 hiato, personally I'm a bzr fan 18:47:53 and what on earth is bza? 18:47:53 darcs? 18:47:58 hiato, try ais523 for that 18:47:59 *bzr 18:48:10 I must say I like hg 18:48:12 hiato, he uses darcs for c-intercal 18:48:15 hiato, hg isn't too bad 18:48:27 it is just git that I have major trouble with 18:48:29 wow, what an elaborate way to waste time 18:48:36 fair enough 18:48:37 hiato, what is? 18:48:42 I'm a darcs fan 18:48:48 darcs <- c-intercal 18:48:51 hiato, oh and rcs. But I rarely run into it 18:48:51 http://filebin.ca/septw/ski.tar.gz 18:48:56 rcs? 18:48:59 There's my SKI interpreter. 18:49:11 it even manages to beat bzr at user interface, and the model is a lot better 18:49:12 Compile with gcc *.c -lgc 18:49:14 I like it too ais523, but hg wins over for me 18:49:14 pikhq, why not compile SKI to C with it? 18:49:24 pikhq, using just a simple converter 18:49:26 Ohoho, interperter? 18:49:26 AnMaster: Didn't bother is all. 18:49:38 -!- MaXo2 has joined. 18:49:57 * AnMaster stores that in ~/irc/esoteric/pikhq 18:50:08 Oh, right. I had been working on making it into a proper Lazy K interpreter. 18:50:19 hiato, lambda.h is the file you want to read 18:50:29 iirc 18:50:35 Yeah. 18:50:41 and closure.h 18:50:48 hm 18:50:49 no 18:51:00 pikhq, what is xgc.h? 18:51:09 so pikhq, you implement lambda and ski? 18:51:15 ah, I was reading main 18:51:17 pikhq, and why does it contain nohup.out? 18:51:18 ... Declares xgc_malloc. 18:51:26 the tarball 18:51:28 AnMaster: Uh. 18:51:31 Accident. 18:51:34 cat nohup.out 18:51:34 Sun VirtualBox Headless Interface 3.1.4_OSE 18:51:34 (C) 2008-2010 Sun Microsystems, Inc. 18:51:34 All rights reserved. 18:51:36 wonderful 18:52:00 pikhq, how does one compile this? 18:52:01 hiato: It's some pretty horrifying code. 18:52:03 there is no makefile 18:52:11 AnMaster: gcc *.c -lgc 18:52:21 pikhq, although I can barely make the outline of how you've done this, I am impressed 18:52:52 and only two warnings :) 18:52:53 hiato: It's pretty easy. I implement Lazy K's semantics naively. 18:53:03 :) 18:53:13 pikhq, btw do not try it with -pedantic 18:53:15 * hiato goes to do some research 18:53:29 $ gcc -pedantic -std=gnu99 *.c -lgc -Wall -Wextra 2>&1 | grep warning | wc -l 18:53:29 132 18:53:54 (resulted in errors without that -std=gnu99) 18:53:55 nice 18:54:02 Yes, -pedantic warns about every single GNU extension. 18:54:05 (I guess gnu89 could have worked too, didn't try it) 18:54:15 And this code is mostly GNU extensions.\ 18:54:17 $ gcc -std=gnu99 *.c -lgc -Wall -Wextra 2>&1 | grep warning | wc -l 18:54:18 16 18:54:20 * Gregor always uses -ansi -pedantic >:) 18:54:21 a lot of those too 18:54:42 Gregor, I use 18:55:10 cplof's test cases fail if it doesn't build with -Wall -Werror -ansi -pedantic -DFAKE_JUMPS 18:55:14 Also, note that the definition of lambdas here could easily *break at any time*. Those functions are not guaranteed to exist by the GCC documentation. 18:55:22 -std=c99 -Wall -Wextra -pedantic -Wwrite-strings -Wcast-align -Wcast-qual -Wbad-function-cast -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes -Wmissing-declarations -Wold-style-definition -Wredundant-decls -Wnested-externs -Wdeclaration-after-statement -Wshadow -Wundef -Wpacked -Wfloat-equal -Wstrict-aliasing=2 -Wformat=2 -Wmissing-noreturn -Wmissing-format-attribute -Winit-self -Wunsafe-loop-optimizations - 18:55:22 Wmissing-include-dirs -Wunused-parameter -Wunused-function -Wunused-label -Wunused-value -Wunused-variable -Wimplicit -Wparentheses -Wpointer-arith -fno-math-errno -fno-trapping-math 18:55:24 Gregor, there ! 18:55:39 that excludes some -D 18:55:42 AnMaster: Do you know what -Wall means? 18:55:50 (it claims that the functions are entirely on the stack. In reality, the trampoline that GCC compiles if needed is on the stack.) 18:55:50 Gregor, XD 18:55:58 Gregor: -Wall does not enable all warning. 18:56:00 Erm. Warnings. 18:56:11 Though I'm pretty sure he has redundancy going there. 18:56:18 pikhq, not for old gcc versions 18:56:24 pikhq, I support down to gcc 3.4 18:56:32 why? 18:56:41 pikhq, it checks which ones are supported by the compiler 18:56:45 Mmm. 18:56:49 Maybe I should add -Wextra to cplof's test case :P 18:56:52 pikhq, yes this yeilds some redundancy, but nothing to worry about 18:57:55 Gregor, I would strongly recommend at least -pedantic -Wall -Wextra -Wformat=2 -Wwrite-strings 18:58:34 Gregor, defines include: -D_POSIX_C_SOURCE=200112L -D_XOPEN_SOURCE=600 18:59:33 Gregor, I'm unlikely to switch to POSIX 2008 yet 18:59:42 but that might happen before I drop gcc 3.4 support 19:01:01 -Wextra includes warnings for unused PARAMETERS 19:01:04 That's completely stupid 19:01:08 Gregor, no 19:01:11 I find that useful 19:01:25 I write dozens of functions that are compatible with a single interface. 19:01:26 Gregor, I use an attribute for the three or so cases where I actually want it to be unused 19:01:36 Gregor, well add -Wno-unused-parameters then 19:01:38 (iirc) 19:01:45 (not sure about the exact spelling) 19:01:53 (check your local man gcc) 19:02:07 I'm gonna stick with -Wall -Werror -ansi -pedantic :P 19:02:15 Incidentally, I also compile with OpenWatcom for 32-bit DOS. 19:02:22 Gregor, -Wwrite-strings! 19:02:34 Gregor, that makes sure you don't do things like: 19:02:35 I don't even use any bloody strings :P 19:02:40 char* foo = "bar"; 19:02:46 mkstemp(foo); 19:03:03 (you need to have it writable for there) 19:03:14 (besides, proper const usage helps the optimiser) 19:05:06 why? <-- why what? 19:05:37 In actuality, the real problem with -Wwrite-strings for cplof is that I cast everything into unsigned char *, and casting away constness explicitly is presumably still considered "OK" 19:05:52 Gregor, there is another warning for that 19:06:03 Gregor, -Wcast-qual I think 19:07:22 Gregor, anyway I find that set of warnings very nice for cfunge. 19:08:01 AnMaster: never mind, it was a way back, and thanks to the wonders of lag, in the wrong place 19:08:24 * Ping reply from hiato: 2.20 second(s) <-- bad, but not excessively so 19:11:53 Heh, nice touch 19:12:04 -!- dev_squid has joined. 19:12:06 http://codu.org/music/op12/GRegor-op12-wipp2.ogg , lest I never mentioned it here >_> 19:13:15 AnMaster: it was for pikhq, when he said the definition could break at any time, and my log shows: 20:52 < pikhq> Also, note that the ..... 20:53 < hiato> why? 19:13:21 so within the margin of error :P 19:14:15 Hi guys. 19:14:37 Gregor, "wipp"? 19:14:43 Greetings from beyond the /dev/null 19:14:44 Work In Progress Preview 19:15:02 Gregor, should name it op12.-2 or such 19:15:08 (clc-intercal style) 19:15:29 My original naming convention was beta 1, beta 2 etc, but somebody pointed out justly that that's a bit computery for music :P 19:15:40 hiato, aargh did someone fill the bit bucket now again? 19:15:43 Especially for music which is relatively acoustic. 19:16:11 Gregor, I don't see anything wrong with it 19:16:21 Yeah, but you're a person on #esoteric :P 19:16:59 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta#Common_uses <-- template fail 19:17:01 -_- 19:17:32 AnMaster: That template is in beta. 19:18:33 augh 19:19:07 AnMaster: what does that mean? 19:22:20 hiato, what bit? 19:22:25 "augh"? 19:22:42 heh, did someone fill the bit bucket now again? 19:23:03 hiato, oh that. ask ais523 he can explain it and I'm somewhat busy 19:23:08 s/,/"/ and s/$/"/ 19:23:21 ah, right 19:23:21 or see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bit_bucket 19:23:47 kthnx,srydood.srsly 19:26:19 Gregor, I like that op12-wipp2 around 10:58-11:30 especially! 19:26:35 * AnMaster hasn't finished listening to it yet 19:28:06 Gregor: what do you compose with? 19:28:27 Gregor, is this recorded or synthed? 19:28:33 if synthed, what soundfont 19:28:48 hiato, unless I misremember: rosegarden 19:29:06 Right 19:29:15 I must be the only kiddy who plays with lmms 19:29:20 -!- dev_squid has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 19:29:28 hiato, what is lmms? 19:29:39 hiato, rosegarden is FOSS in case you didn't know 19:30:00 Naah, I did. Linux Multimedia Studio 19:30:06 *MultiMedia 19:30:09 or something 19:30:10 * AnMaster used rosegaden a bit. 19:30:16 AnMaster: It is recorded and synthed :P 19:30:18 the real PITA is jack 19:30:19 In that I have a digital piano. 19:30:23 Gregor, ah 19:30:27 I haven't actually tried a midi tracker 19:30:31 Gregor, not recorded with a mic then 19:30:35 No. 19:30:45 hiato, tracker is wrong word for what I use rosegraden for at least 19:31:05 Gregor, what soundfont though? 19:31:34 Steinway IMIS or something like that, one sec. 19:32:29 AnMaster, what would you call it? 19:32:35 ftp://musix.ourproject.org/pub/musix/sf2/Steinway_IMIS2.2/Steinway_IMIS2.2.sf2.bz2 19:32:43 Gregor, free? 19:32:55 Quite 19:33:08 Gregor, was it the one where ehird commented upon the silly site header? 19:33:21 No :P 19:33:27 AFAIK this one exists only in ftp, no web site. 19:33:31 ah 19:33:39 Gregor, so is this one better or worse in your opinion 19:33:44 Better. 19:33:45 Much. 19:33:49 It is a truly outstanding soundfont. 19:33:50 Gregor, also what tool do you use for the actual synthing? 19:33:55 fluidsynth 19:33:57 AnMaster: I made this today as a tribute to 8bp, using lmms: did someone fill the bit bucket now again? 19:34:05 yugh, wrong clipboard 19:34:06 Gregor, hm I never got that to work reliably 19:34:10 http://www.mediafire.com/?zgmc4dlmcnl 19:34:16 fluidsynth is hugely buggy and terrible. 19:34:20 But when it does work, it's quite nice :P 19:34:26 Gregor, how do you use it them 19:34:27 then* 19:34:58 hiato, how do I actually access the file from there? There is no download link as far as I can see here in w3m 19:34:59 AnMaster: For just piano it's quite simple: fluidsynth -l -F output.wav my.sf2 my.mid 19:35:10 hm 19:35:21 Gregor, that download is slow: 19:35:23 0% [ ] 110 880 --.-K/s eta 5h 42m 19:35:25 Gregor, ^ 19:35:25 :( 19:35:31 hiato: you should title it "did someone fill the bit bucket now again?" 19:35:43 er, AnMaster, i think it needs js 19:35:48 AnMaster: I have no control of that download site :P 19:35:51 cpressey: that is oddly appropriate 19:35:51 hiato, I don't do js 19:36:05 well, I can't think of another host atm 19:36:10 Gregor, care to put your local copy somewhere I can get it reasonably soon? 19:36:21 AnMaster: http://download568.mediafire.com/bmxwgiuhbz1g/zgmc4dlmcnl/new_maybe.ogg 19:36:23 Fleh 19:36:27 Gregor, thanks 19:36:31 maybe my session is valid for you 19:36:43 hiato, seems to work 19:36:55 :) 19:37:24 arg, wait, it can't be working 19:37:36 hiato, oh? 19:37:59 hiato, is 3107b155456ce6cc6e811df2ff78a59989a9f2eae38b4b7a70f7a124ab0a55d2e9b4e0763ce037008b9580c162c189a63b58fdfc2346f80f6890c76dbda99b35 the correct sha512sum? 19:38:04 yeah, the file doesn't exist (wrong title), so I donno what it's givin you 19:38:16 AnMaster: http://download732.mediafire.com/y1nmiltmhndg/qwnwkqt1ynn/lmms_1.ogg 19:38:17 AnMaster: Query 19:38:20 lemme check 19:38:50 hiato, gave me a html file http://download732.mediafire.com/y1nmiltmhndg/qwnwkqt1ynn/lmms_1.ogg 19:38:53 at that one 19:39:00 wha? 19:39:41 http://download732.mediafire.com/y1nmiltmhndg/qwnwkqt1ynn/lmms_1.ogg ? 19:39:52 That's the only link I can get 19:40:08 hiato, gives me the download page 19:40:18 hiato, but was the sha512sum correct? 19:40:51 b9004fc3e3d9d3009ad6f58b8669fb1f897dd2e4097aac1fb4b65310d8bc80756e9eda2c6b4178137b3e71fd809941630266335d4ee4a145de8928d5d08fa645 19:40:58 doesn't look right 19:41:03 mediafire = fail 19:41:16 they gave you a file that, according to my log, was deleted last year 19:41:25 new_maybe.ogg? 19:42:28 let me try once more 19:43:57 hiato, why not filebin? 19:44:18 didn't know about it 19:44:48 dot org/ca? 19:45:02 ok, one more try if you don't mind: http://download732.mediafire.com/rw9smzsgbztg/qwnwkqt1ynn/lmms_1.ogg 19:46:04 hiato, .ca is the one I usually use 19:46:12 hiato, seems to work 19:46:17 finally 19:46:18 well, hasn't finished downloading yet 19:46:56 hiato, b9004fc3e3d9d3009ad6f58b8669fb1f897dd2e4097aac1fb4b65310d8bc80756e9eda2c6b4178137b3e71fd809941630266335d4ee4a145de8928d5d08fa645? 19:47:02 heh, well, mediafire's sessions aren't supposed to be this abused. I had to track down the response to activate the download and kill it, then I guess the id was left open 19:47:07 yep 19:47:08 :) 19:47:24 hiato, square waves? 19:47:41 tribute to 8BP ;) 19:47:47 8bitpeoples.com 19:48:06 * AnMaster sends the hospital bill to hiato for this 19:48:26 hiato, I have nothing against things like SID, but this is not like that 19:48:29 haha, it's not that bad, surely 19:48:32 this is too square wave 19:48:48 hiato, the melody isn't bad. I just can't stand square waves 19:48:53 sinus for me please 19:48:56 ah, right 19:49:09 soory, I tend to like them actually 19:49:12 in fact, quite a bit 19:49:28 but, I have very instrumenty stuff too, just decided to experiment 19:50:04 hiato, I'm perfectly fine with things like SID when it doesn't try to sound much more than what it is 19:50:25 hiato, I like classical music and some baroque 19:50:31 mostly viola/violin music 19:50:35 some other too 19:51:04 Ok, fair enough. Well, to be honest the square wave you hate so much I bent out of a SID emulator 19:51:07 (Vivaldi is probably number two all time favourite after Kraus) 19:51:24 hiato, sure, but C64 games tend to not use it quite like that 19:51:30 right, well, I do appreciate the odd violin piece, but I'm much more orchestral 19:51:51 hiato, chamber music for me :) 19:51:55 medelhsonn etc 19:52:00 Borodiiiiiiin! 19:52:01 Oh noes! not chamber music 19:52:05 BORODIIIIIIIIIIIN 19:52:06 yugh 19:52:07 hiato, why not? 19:52:36 Gregor, why.... 19:52:45 Because Borodin is awesome? 19:52:50 Kraus! 19:52:54 BORODIN! 19:52:55 I just cant stand it. There are a couple of things that I cant stand. Chamber music, water music, most baroque, handel, bach 19:53:03 Gregor, have you listened much to Kraus at all? 19:53:04 Tchaikovsky! Prokofiev! 19:53:11 He was a true genius 19:53:13 AnMaster: A bit, not much, but it's been a while :P 19:53:20 Balakirev! Rimsky-Korsakov! 19:53:36 * pikhq adds Led Zeppelin to the discussion 19:53:38 Gregor has good taste 19:53:40 hiato, Gregor: all the ones you mention (up until Gregor's last line) are fairly well known ones 19:53:51 Kraus is sadly not so well known 19:54:19 yes 19:54:21 buy the complete set from your local Naxos branch today! 19:54:42 -!- dougx has joined. 19:54:43 I think Rimsky-Korsokov was used as a curse word in at least the Finnish translation of Bored of the Rings. 19:54:50 hiato, or at least listen to his C sharp minor sinfonia on youtube 19:54:56 hiato, movement 3 especially 19:55:03 that is the best music I ever listened to 19:55:07 but I also like holst 19:55:15 and on second place comes third movement from Vivaldi's summer 19:55:19 when played fast 19:55:21 goddamn delayed comment 19:55:24 * Sgeo can't believe he's actually reorganizing his bookmarks 19:55:32 Holst??? 19:55:35 Pfff 19:55:39 Nine-hit wonder. 19:55:57 Swap him out for Elgar. 19:55:59 haha 19:56:06 Now Elgar is quite okay to listen to 19:56:14 but not one of the things that you actually go "wow" over 19:56:17 Haven't heard enough of him to decide -> indifference 19:56:19 * Sgeo is in love with Chrome's bookmark manager 19:56:34 while Kraus and Vivaldi are in the "wow, wow, wow" category 19:56:59 PACHELBEL 19:57:03 *stabs self* 19:57:09 aargh stop talking about music 19:57:12 Gregor, yes, except that music is badly overused 19:57:15 Thank you for saving me the effort, Gregor 19:57:17 Now, I forget what this guy's name was, but he did the Gymnopédie and Gnossienne and I love it 19:57:22 lament, there is esolang music too 19:57:27 hiato: Satie 19:57:29 hiato, Satie? 19:57:30 <3 Satie 19:57:33 -!- dev_squid has joined. 19:57:33 yes! 19:57:35 AnMaster: aaargh 19:57:37 hiato, I quite like Satie 19:57:54 lament, there is some esolangs that takes midi as input iirc 19:58:05 Prokofiev is my absolute favorite. 19:58:13 Hm, why do I have a link to a page on /b/ in here? Did I forget that /b/ links tend to die? 19:58:38 cpressey, from what I remember, it is quite... heavy and... "pompöst" (no clue what this is in English) 19:58:41 and, ofc, who can deny the schindlers list theme 19:58:46 aaaargh 19:58:57 AnMaster: "Pompous" 19:59:03 (Presumably) 19:59:07 Gregor, ah 19:59:09 well yeah 19:59:12 satie can go suck it, fuck you for writing music without bar lines 19:59:16 same goes for Borodin 19:59:19 what a jerk really 19:59:27 and *definitely* for Sibelius 19:59:51 OK, how 'bout Ravel then hyuk hyuk 19:59:53 Sibelius sounds like an old man wandering around a house with no idea what he's looking for. 19:59:57 Gregor, the Swedish word has a negative connotation 20:00:07 Gregor, does the English "Pompous" have that? 20:00:11 AnMaster: The English word has negative connotation. 20:00:12 Gregor: Ravel ftw! too bad he only had one real hit 20:00:14 right 20:00:15 and bizet 20:00:21 Gregor, Ravel is all right 20:00:24 but also overplayed 20:00:28 and not balancedly so 20:00:28 Bizet only had one opera worth of hits :P 20:00:37 I quite like some of Ravel's other music 20:00:40 Quality>quantity 20:00:45 also Bizet just wrote operas didn't he? 20:00:56 at least I hardly remember what he wrote 20:01:00 and I don't like operas 20:01:09 (guess if I hate or hate wagner?) 20:01:13 AnMaster: "Pompous" means like "arrogant" -- I don't think of Prokofiev's music as anything like that. 20:01:18 AnMaster, yes, he wrote an opera, and it is good :P 20:01:22 lament, did Satie really do that? 20:01:37 "rimsky-korsikov": http://pastebin.com/qWERDPKM 20:01:42 cpressey, hm. Most russian music sound like that to be 20:01:49 hiato, I just don't like operas! 20:01:55 Mmmm, pompous doesn't /quite/ mean arrogant, but yeah, similar. 20:01:58 hiato, I dislike the singing 20:02:04 And I can see what AnMaster is saying about pompousness in Russian music. 20:02:16 But Russian music is all awesomesauce :P 20:02:17 AnMaster: but that is the point 20:02:18 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0AkO2OTfjA 20:02:23 "rimsky-korsikov": http://pastebin.com/qWERDPKM <-- ? 20:02:39 Gregor: Yeah! I ... er, have ... the red army chior double cd 20:02:52 AnMaster: Just a random act of quotation. 20:03:00 hiato, I have something like that on LP I think 20:03:03 somewhere 20:03:10 didn't buy it myself 20:03:21 and it's brilliant 20:03:30 Well, *of* Russian music, Prokofiev is like the least pompous, I think. 20:03:34 Argh, I was going to mention that composer who was quite popular until everybody started associating him with Nazi Germany, and now his music is super-underplayed, but I can't remember his name ... 20:03:46 hitler? 20:03:54 hiato, well, their rendition of the Internationale is quite impressive! 20:03:57 gah, the SCO court cases are setting my mind on the verge of exploding 20:03:58 (sp?) 20:04:00 Hitler was a fan of his. 20:04:03 then, you get the wonders of Monti in his one favourable piece 20:04:13 Well, *of* Russian music, Prokofiev is like the least pompous, I think. <-- and it is still too much so for me 20:04:21 I prefer not at all pompous music 20:04:35 cpressey, probably why I so much strongly prefer chamber music 20:04:48 AnMaster: Internationale from them moved me the first time I heard it 20:04:50 AnMaster: Understandable. Well, Vivaldi is also in my Top Ten. 20:04:56 full orchestra somehow tends to make music more easily pompous... 20:05:11 you cannot say that tchaikovsky was pompous 20:05:11 hiato, hm 20:05:14 that is a crime 20:05:16 hiato, I do say that 20:05:33 Blasphemer! 20:05:35 And lets just not get started about Mahler! 20:05:40 It's all about twisted structure to me (could you tell from my languages...?), and for that, Prokofiev absolutely frickin rules. At least, to me. 20:05:55 soon you'll say you like strauss or chopan or something 20:05:58 now I think he might even beat Sibelius at being most pompous ever 20:06:07 hiato, which Strauss? 20:06:17 Handel and Chopin are also good stuff. 20:06:17 I quite like some of Chopin's music 20:06:18 AnMaster: you have me stumped 20:06:24 Händel varies 20:06:28 flight of the valkyer strauss, AnMaster 20:06:29 I like part of his music 20:06:35 some less so 20:06:37 the most pompous is obviously vagner 20:06:41 wagner 20:06:47 please, say it isn't so 20:06:49 flight of the valkyer strauss, AnMaster <-- now you are mixing up Strauss and Wagner 20:06:52 eg 20:06:54 I know 20:06:57 I meant blue danube 20:07:03 hiato, and Wagner is *horrible* 20:07:03 I was thinking about wagner though 20:07:06 that is easily worst ever 20:07:07 ever 20:07:09 yes, agreed 20:07:19 hiato, for Strauss, I can't keep them apart really 20:07:23 so can't really answer 20:07:27 i only ever heard one wagner piece and it was pretty awesome (the ouverture to lohengrin) 20:07:28 Wagner is background music for D&D melodrama 20:07:47 cpressey, tabletop? 20:07:54 For that, it makes OK background music, but that's all it is 20:08:02 AnMaster: Ring cycle 20:08:03 cpressey: wagner is bacground music for ww2 melodrama 20:08:09 cpressey, flight of the valkyries doesn't fit anywhere 20:08:14 cpressey, ? 20:08:40 AnMaster: Das Ring Der Niebelungenungenner 20:08:47 cpressey, yes 20:09:04 cpressey, but that last word looks a bit too much extended 20:09:08 out of interest, what's the opion on dvorak here? 20:09:10 Entgegengegangen, my favorite verb. 20:09:27 hiato, okay, quite nice background music 20:09:32 nothing you go "wow" over 20:09:34 anyway, Debussy varies widely. 20:09:36 some is really good 20:09:39 yes, I guess 20:09:40 some is a disaster 20:09:50 Debussy only has one piece worthy of my ears 20:09:52 La Mer is a disaster for example 20:09:56 clarir de lune 20:09:57 Debussy is for falling asleep to 20:10:26 hiato, I would add "The Girl with the Flaxen Hair" to that 20:10:32 meh 20:10:35 Copland, and Britten, otoh... 20:10:49 cpressey, doesn't ring much of bells here 20:10:52 the first slightly 20:10:54 the second none at all 20:11:00 and finally, the last of my idols, the not so classical gershwin 20:11:05 Copland is only known in the US :P 20:11:11 hiato, gershwin is quite nice 20:11:28 also I count classically as the classical period only 20:11:30 well, by apperciating him I can forgive your admiration of chamber music 20:11:35 And sometimes the US is known as Copland, because the Cops here are so ... nice. 20:11:39 the vulgar sense of "classical" music 20:11:44 I call "art music" 20:11:52 interesting 20:11:53 from translating the Swedish word for it 20:11:58 I just call it "music actually worth listening to" :P 20:12:01 -!- whtspc has joined. 20:12:13 Gregor, well I think experimental jazz can be quite okay sometimes 20:12:22 Fair enough. 20:12:32 But yeah, classical music encompasses Haydn to Beethoven, and not much else. 20:12:39 And little of what we've talked about. 20:12:47 debussy is fucking awesome 20:12:53 that is, to me, classic music 20:13:00 classical music, is all of what we mention 20:13:00 Gregor, Beethoven is right at the edge of the classical period though 20:13:05 hiato: obviously you like the arabesque 20:13:07 by debussy 20:13:10 AnMaster: Yeah, he's certainly arguable. 20:13:16 guilty as charged 20:13:17 Gregor, some of his work I would call romantical rather than classical 20:13:28 But that "some" is important :) 20:13:33 lament, I like it, but not something I go "wow" above 20:13:36 about* 20:13:39 AnMaster: you're not hiato 20:13:46 lament, true 20:13:53 I just provided an extra data point 20:13:56 you might actually have some taste 20:14:09 he just claims to like clair de lune, so obviously he must like arabesque as well 20:14:17 lets all agree that Mozart's chamber music is awesome? 20:14:22 especially if for a string quartet 20:14:35 dunno, divertimentos are kinda boring 20:14:52 !Error: does not compute! 20:15:15 i really like the 1st mvt of dissonance quartet, but the others not so much 20:15:17 lament, I quite like the last movement in Eine Kleine Nachtmusik (spelling? The spellchecker should auto detect what I meant!) 20:15:26 oh i never actually heard that :D 20:15:32 Heh 20:15:37 And sheep may safely graze 20:15:54 lament, well, it is one of his most famous pieces of music 20:16:01 AnMaster: only one mvt 20:16:06 lament, which one? 20:16:08 obviously i heard that one 20:16:09 the famous one 20:16:10 fuck 20:16:17 lament, I don't know which one is the famous one! 20:16:31 Suk! 20:16:44 Nobody (outside of the Czech Republic) has heard of Suk :P 20:16:51 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqah1rucyRg <-- IT'S SO AMERICAN! 20:16:51 lament, I'm talking about Rondo: Allegro 20:17:14 cpressey, the title made me decide it wasn't worth the effort to youtube-dl 20:17:20 AnMaster: 1st mvt is the famous one 20:17:29 uh, but the percussion section in the orchestra is kind of fail 20:17:29 lament, all, well, it is kind of okay 20:17:41 lament, but nothing, I repeat *nothing* like the final movement! 20:18:19 lament, the final movement really made me go "wow, wow" the first time I heard it 20:18:32 also what is your opinion on Leopold Mozart? 20:18:42 AnMaster: it's actually a fine piece of music. 20:18:45 IMo of course 20:19:05 cpressey, which one? K525 IV. Rondo? 20:19:10 never heard leopold mozart 20:19:14 * hiato thinks that anyone who checks the logs for today will think that the date must be April 1 20:19:14 AnMaster: the link i sent 20:19:24 * AnMaster wonders how many here has even listened to anything composed by W. A. Mozart's father 20:19:28 * cpressey has almost no opinion on Mozart 20:19:41 Beethoven, otoh 20:19:45 <3 Beethoven 20:19:48 * hiato has never heard of W. Mozart's Father 20:19:53 noooooo! 20:19:54 cpressey, isn't any "wow" 20:20:08 -!- dougx has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 20:20:09 AnMaster: Any Mozart? Um... 20:20:14 hiato, Leopold Mozart. Heard one piece of it 20:20:19 That Turkish March thing is catchy. 20:20:22 beethoven is lame 20:20:28 cpressey, well yes 20:20:33 i hate beethoven 20:20:36 AnMaster: name? 20:20:36 cpressey, I meant Beethoven " cpressey, isn't any "wow"" 20:20:36 what a pretentious dickwad 20:20:37 lament: OK, so let me get this straight. 20:20:41 hiato, who? 20:20:46 cpressey: turkish is wolf mozart 20:20:48 lament: You *like* Debussy and you *don't like* Beethoven. 20:20:50 hiato, oh the piece? Toy Symphony 20:20:55 AnMaster: yeah 20:20:56 hiato, includes some unusual instruments 20:21:01 oh? 20:21:05 cpressey: beethoven is like, omg check out how awesome i am and how much my heroic soul suffers 20:21:12 guess what fuck you dipshit i dont care 20:21:33 cpressey, I have to agree with lament here. Beethoven made some quite nice pieces. But a lot of it is just too heavy and romantical 20:21:48 thirded! (?) 20:22:09 when beethoven is classical, he's worse than mozart 20:22:15 when beethoven is romantic, he's worse than chopin 20:22:19 he's just stuck in this in-between stage 20:22:36 lament, Fur Elise is quite nice though 20:22:58 they used to play an electronic version of it on some radio station here when it wasn't sending 20:22:59 moohlight aynone? 20:23:02 like, during the night 20:23:06 the first opening bars or such 20:23:16 hiato, "meh" 20:23:26 I would say moonlight > fur elise 20:23:28 AnMaster: dcc 20:23:31 I don't get what the fuss is about wrt moonlight 20:23:42 lament, uh, need to unblock it 20:23:46 but that's just becaues, for me, the melody is more "involved" 20:24:07 lament, okay, temporarily unignored dcc 20:24:09 try again 20:24:16 lament, and I'm behind weird NAT 20:24:23 so, I hope it all works on your side 20:24:36 lament, but what are you going to send? 20:24:39 lament: Just wanted to get that straight. 20:24:48 (and when will the dialogue come?) 20:24:50 For the record, I barely consider what Debussy wrote to be music. 20:25:10 cpressey, for La Mer I would agree. For several of his other works I find them very nice 20:25:47 of course even La Mer is *miles* above people like Schönberg (who is *parsecs* above Wagner) 20:25:59 As French composers go, Berlioz or Couperin. 20:26:04 cpressey, Satie! 20:26:07 but back to beethoven, I have this brialliant CD set of Ashkenazy playing some of his piano movements, brilliant the lot. But, then as they progress, you can hear the romantic influences and it gets annoying 20:26:09 Oh right! 20:26:17 I keep forgetting Satie is French. 20:26:18 cpressey, Lizt and Paganini are interesting technically 20:26:26 lament, aren't you going to resend the DCC request then? 20:26:41 lament, as I said it was dropped first time and now I temporarily allowed it 20:26:41 AnMaster: only if you are a violin player 20:26:45 And Schönberg was some very twisted soul who I'll never understand. 20:26:46 hiato, what? 20:26:51 hiato, well, to listen to 20:27:09 Paganinin, I don't find technically interesting, being a saxophonist 20:27:16 lament, it says "connecting..." 20:27:28 lament, sure you opened the ports on your side? 20:27:31 fuck dcc 20:27:32 * DCC RECV connect attempt to lament failed (err=Connection timed out). 20:27:37 oh well 20:27:40 i'm too lazy to upload it 20:27:47 lament, fur elise I see 20:27:53 but what is special about that one 20:28:15 * AnMaster re-enabled *!*@* dcc ignore 20:28:16 cpressey: debussy is stunning at times 20:28:28 lament, agreed. But what about La Mer? 20:28:33 cpressey: you don't like the sunken cathedral? 20:28:35 you can't say that one is stunning can you? 20:28:45 AnMaster: please be more logical and less non-sequitur 20:28:56 lament, wrt what? 20:29:53 * AnMaster never heard the sunken cathedral btw 20:30:06 brb in a few minutes 20:30:45 Checking my playlist now, it seems I listen to brahms more than vivaldi, handel, chopin, mozart, bach, lizt and some others put together 20:30:51 and I don't even like brahms :P 20:31:03 brahms has awesome harmonies 20:31:07 nobody else is even close 20:31:25 well i guess rachmaninoff 20:32:31 Who was it that wrote the Peer Gynt Suite? That, to me, is the greatest (non-Satie) simplistic music 20:32:43 If Beethoven had a suffering, heroic soul, then Debussy had the soul of a lovesick schoolgirl. 20:33:33 * cpressey looks for Sunken Cathedral 20:34:43 hiato: Grieg I think? 20:35:34 Se possible 20:35:59 who, by the way, I think struck it lucky with hall of the mountain king 20:36:32 Kind of a one-hit wonder, yeah, but he wrote a lot of short "character pieces", and what I've heard of the others, he's not too bad. 20:36:54 pf... didn't know about that 20:38:16 Completely forgot. 20:38:32 Mendelssohn 20:38:37 Checking my playlist now, it seems I listen to brahms more than vivaldi, handel, chopin, mozart, bach, lizt and some others put together <-- bramhs? "meh" again 20:38:53 Who was it that wrote the Peer Gynt Suite? That, to me, is the greatest (non-Satie) simplistic music 20:38:58 Grieg is indeed awesome 20:39:26 I listened to the whole Peer Gynt of course 20:39:29 OK, now I can say I have endured the Sunken Cathedral. 20:39:30 quite interesting 20:39:36 cpressey, link? 20:39:41 It's kind of nice... if you like downing. 20:39:56 Or drowning. 20:40:01 Mendelssohn is meh 20:40:07 AnMaster: to which? 20:40:10 medelssohn is genious 20:40:18 cpressey, sunken cathedral 20:40:19 violin concerto in e minor! 20:40:29 I-TAL-ian, I-TAL-ian, dah DAHHH, duh duh duh 20:40:31 hiato, not sure I heard that one. Link? 20:40:39 AnMaster: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3geejD5Dksk 20:41:23 cpressey, disharmonic much? 20:41:33 that is the bit I hate about La Mer 20:41:37 well not hate 20:41:40 that's too strong 20:41:44 "strongly dislike" is better 20:41:56 AnMaster: http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/Electrical-Engineering-and-Computer-Science/6-035Fall-2005/CourseHome/index.htm 20:41:59 yugh 20:42:06 hiato, really? 20:42:11 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p08izmpPy0s# 20:42:14 heh 20:42:16 hiato, are you using synergy or something? 20:42:17 AnMaster: lots of wishy-washy not-exactly-disharmonious fourths and ninths and stuff, I though 20:42:23 goddamn two xclipboards 20:42:24 it tends to fuck up your clipboard badly 20:42:32 hiato, I always use middle mouse one 20:43:35 i guess 20:44:43 Chopin isn't great, but there's a couple of his pieces that always get stuck in my head 20:44:55 well, okay background music 20:45:00 you don't remember it 5 minutes later 20:45:03 I don't dig piano music generally, but his I can usually stand 20:45:07 that is my opinion on Chopin 20:45:23 Not quite as background-y as Wagner, but yes, pretty background-y. 20:45:25 cpressey, wrt. piano music: Mozart or Lizt 20:45:36 plus I play piano (amateur level!) myself 20:45:45 You know, I know almost nothing by Liszt. 20:45:50 cpressey, wagener isn't backgroundy. Wagner is headachy 20:45:57 And, I now claim, Mozart was a robot. 20:46:03 cpressey, what? 20:46:17 Well, I figured I ought to have some opinion about him, so there it is,. 20:46:24 XD 20:47:50 AnMaster: and? what did you think of he mendelssohn? 20:47:52 lament, listened to that sunken cathedral. Not one of his best pieces 20:48:02 hiato, just started listening to it 20:48:22 hiato, too much symphony orchestra. But at least a lot of strings. 20:48:38 Wait, it's a *violin* concerto 20:48:41 mainly solo 20:48:42 hiato, one of mendelssohn's better pieces so far 20:48:48 hiato: Max Bruch also wrote a pretty quality violin concerto 20:48:53 hiato, well, too much orchestra then 20:48:54 -!- angstrom has joined. 20:49:00 Never heard of him cpressey 20:49:02 (hiato, remember I prefer chamber music) 20:49:11 hm who is angstrom? 20:49:20 hiato: I first heard of him from the B-side of that Mendelssohn concerto :) 20:49:21 could a quine be written which utilizes a function to generate a sequence of numbers (ascii) which, printed out, represent the program (_including_ the implementation of the function!) ? 20:49:25 cpressey, anyway got anywhere with befunge-111 today? 20:49:37 AnMaster: not working on it today. 20:49:49 angstrom, how do you mean? 20:50:02 angstrom, and in which language 20:50:04 *B-side of a recording of that Mendelssohn concerto 20:50:19 AnMaster: wondering whether is possible at all 20:50:21 angstrom: in any sufficiently powerful language (TC with a few assumptions about I/O), there's no reason it couldn't be 20:50:40 ais523: You get pinged on 'quine', don't you? :) 20:50:43 AnMaster: right, a chamber musci man can't apperciate mendelssohn at his best 20:50:44 ais523: but how would one move towards it 20:50:49 cpressey, :D 20:50:52 cpressey: no, I don't; just happened to look into the channel 20:51:01 cpressey: interesting, I'll take a look around 20:51:09 angstrom: you'd use one of the quine models that allow you to add arbitrary data that's also quined 20:51:18 hiato, yeah, Vivaldi, Mozart and Kraus for me. And *some* of Haydn 20:51:28 then put code in that duplicates that arbitrary data that changes an ordinary quine into the numbers 20:51:37 ais523: that is not what i mean 20:51:46 what do you mean? 20:52:18 are you trying to limit the "function" somewhat so it doesn't have a bunch of arbitrary data encoded in it? 20:52:26 hiato: OK, listening to the Mendelssohn concerto again, uhhh. Max Bruch's is good, but it doesn't compare. 20:53:02 hiato yet I like Grieg very much. But a lot of his isn't pompous even though it uses a full orchestra. (Of course some exceptions, like "I dovregubbens sal" (iirc, and "In the hall of the mountain king" in English)) 20:53:11 (yet that one is acceptable somehow) 20:53:26 ais523: for every given arbitrary finite sequence a function, which generates this sequence, could be described. the problem is: the sequence _must_ contain the implementation of the function 20:53:34 -!- whtspc has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:53:58 ais523, anyone made a GOL "quine"? 20:54:01 well 20:54:03 non-trivial one 20:54:07 AnMaster: yeah, everyone has theri own tastes though. funyy that you like grieg though 20:54:11 got my point? 20:54:18 cpressey: yeah! now you start to apprecaite mendelssohn 20:54:24 angstrom: yes; but that's just the same as a normal quine 20:54:29 he's brilliant like no other for those concertos 20:54:32 hiato, it has a feeling of lightness and open nature about it all through. 20:54:35 because you can see the entire program as a function 20:54:55 AnMaster, what, grieg? 20:54:59 hiato, yes 20:55:12 hiato: I had forgotten... 20:55:13 hiato, don't you just see the fjords when you listen to his music 20:55:27 (well not in all pieces of course) 20:55:31 ais523: could you provide me with a particular example? all the quines i've seen relly heavily on pre-processor macros 20:55:32 AnMaster hahaha, yeah, I'm pining for the fjords 20:55:38 cpressey :) 20:55:58 hiato, augh. But seriously... some of Grieg's best is non-Peer-Gynt 20:55:58 ais523: maybe you are right 20:56:12 angstrom: think any BF quine, but interpreted as a function; if you want it to be an actual function in the language, use a BF-like language which has functions 20:56:17 hiato, hardangerfela (sp?) is a nice Norwegian "folk" instrument 20:56:33 AnMaster: I must disagree. In fact, I find it hard to apprecaite any of his other stuff compare to it 20:56:51 hiato, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardingfele 20:56:59 hiato, what? !? 20:57:14 ais523: ic. have to investigate 20:57:15 hiato, Peer Gynt is good but nothing like *digs around for cd* 20:57:45 ah found it 20:58:24 hiato, hm must check which track on the cd it is I'm thinking about 20:59:17 hiato, Norwegian Dance No. 2 for example 20:59:35 hiato, (Allegretto tranquillo e grazioso) 21:00:19 hiato, Solveig's Sang is nice though 21:00:20 link por favor 21:00:28 (even though it is in Peer Gynt) 21:00:57 hiato, sure: http://www.naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?item_code=8.551108 21:01:00 though, I think I did try searching for norweigan dance once, after having heard it on theradio 21:01:19 hm times out for me that link 21:01:29 ah now it loads 21:01:45 hiato, anyway, it is track 3 on that cd. 21:01:59 hiato, solveig's sang you can find any number of 21:02:06 hiato, just pick an instrumental one! 21:02:13 Schubert's Unfinished is also good. Never been a huge fan of his other stuff though. 21:02:26 AnMaster: will do, commencing youtubing now 21:02:29 hiato, also Holberg Suite: Prelude is awesome 21:03:45 hiato, I imagine a Scandinavian mountainous region, crystal clear weather, slight breeze, mid-morning. 21:03:55 fjords definitely have a place in there! 21:04:39 haha :P 21:04:42 well it changes feeling towards the end 21:04:49 but to begin with it is definitely like that 21:04:53 eh, it keeps timing out, but I will keep searching 21:05:08 hiato, also Holberg Suite: Andante is quite nice 21:05:20 not "wow" 21:05:22 but restful 21:06:26 you see, I like the dramatic music of tchaikovsky, and the tension of prokofiev (esp: dance of the knights/romeo juliet) so it's difficult for me to accept "airy" music like some of this 21:06:47 hiato, tchaikovsky: overly dramatic and somewhat pompous 21:07:05 hiato: I think you and I must have similar tastes. Satie is some of the only music that I like that I would call "airy". 21:07:20 hiato, But would you call Vivaldi's summer, third movement "airy"? 21:07:29 Tchaikovsky I'm kind of neutral on. 21:07:38 hiato, it's supposed to depict a raging thunderstorm ffs! 21:07:40 Vivaldi rocks. 21:07:51 cpressey: I would mostly agree 21:08:04 and that movement takes second place on my all time best list 21:08:17 AnMaster: well, the only thing I really like from vivaldi is winter, er, allegro i think 21:08:43 after Kraus' Sinfonia in C# minor movement 4 21:08:56 hiato, the winter is the worst of the seasons 21:08:59 I like weird. Some of the composers I like are obviously pretty weird (Prokofiev, Satie, Milhaud, Stravinsky...) I'm trying to figure out what the ones who *aren't* weird, have in common. 21:09:04 of course vivaldi did a lot more than just the seasons 21:09:10 some of it very nice 21:09:19 cpressey, satie is not weird 21:09:22 Vivaldi is not weird, neither is Mendelssohn 21:09:41 cpressey, I recommend you listen to Kraus 21:09:53 AnMaster: I really can't dig vivaldi 21:09:53 AnMaster: Satie is extremely weird! It's just hard to hear in some of his pieces 21:09:59 cpressey: to me, those are normal 21:10:01 hiato, well that's your issue ;P 21:10:03 He wrote a piece for walking stick! 21:10:08 what AnMaster appreciates, now that's weird ;) 21:10:17 hiato, no! 21:10:36 Well, on the other hand, Schoenberg was ... too weird. Schoenberg is like the Malbolge of composers. 21:11:05 haha 21:11:09 I like that comparison 21:11:14 never heard his stuff though 21:11:19 hiato, airy music I definitely like. Dramatic: sure, but I definitely forbid more than 0.01 µWagner of pompousness! 21:11:22 where satie is BF 21:11:33 hahaha 21:11:34 Satie wrote a piece with words, and included the note "These are not lyrics. Under no circumstances should they be spoken aloud during performance" 21:11:45 cpressey, my dad likes Schönberg. And Wagner. 21:11:47 *shudder* 21:12:13 look, I don't like wagner any more than you, and unfortunately, you have the same taste as my dad AnMaster 21:12:14 cpressey, he was quite anti-Wagner iirc 21:12:15 Hm, Satie = BF? Maybe... 21:12:26 hiato, "unfortunately"? 21:12:37 cpressey, nah, Satie is more like a mild version of intercal 21:12:42 Yeah, we have entirely separarte CD collections 21:12:49 hiato, same here! 21:12:54 I was thinking Satie = Underload, but I'm not familiar enough with Underload to say 21:12:55 i cant stand his stuff, he doesn't like mine 21:13:03 my dad even likes Stravinsky 21:13:07 which I just don't get 21:13:07 and I'm not familiar enough with Satie to say 21:13:16 well, it isn't actually horrible 21:13:18 like Wagner is 21:13:24 but, what is the point of Stravinsky... 21:13:26 yeah, mine likes water music, which is just atrocious 21:13:41 AnMaster: The point of Stravinsky is The Rite of Spring. 21:13:42 hiato, Händel's water music? 21:13:44 well it is kind of OK 21:13:50 Not in specific, but yes 21:13:59 AHHHHH! NOOOOOO! Not you too! 21:14:03 That's about all... a lot of his other stuff is pretty meh. 21:14:03 wow, I never knew Handel had an umlaut 21:14:09 hiato, not on my "best" list 21:14:12 have you tried spectral music ? :) 21:14:14 hiato: ? 21:14:17 ais523, he dropped it after he moved to UK 21:14:23 ais523, but yes originally he did 21:14:36 ais523, and that is an ä not an a with an umlaut 21:14:37 t! 21:14:40 I like Handel pretty good. I think he makes my top ten. Or at least, he did once. 21:14:41 s/t// 21:14:49 AnMaster: ok, fine, but try not to listen to it 21:14:53 what? 21:14:57 hiato, water music? 21:15:08 hiato, yeah most movements are a bit too pompous for my taste 21:15:11 yeah 21:15:14 there is one movement in it I like 21:15:21 which one was it now again 21:15:25 "airy", insusbstantail, decorative 21:15:28 hiato, Alla hornpipe or something? 21:15:45 hiato, the other ones are too pompous definitely, or just not good 21:16:16 hiato, also way too few violins in the water music! 21:16:18 AnMaster, I'm sorry, the act of listening to that and baroque is physically annoying to me, I just can't do it 21:16:28 AnMaster: What do you think of Couperin? 21:16:37 cpressey, "who?" 21:16:47 hiato, I do keep away from Bach played on organ 21:16:56 Bach on piano is quite okay 21:17:05 AnMaster: baroque, french, mainly harpsichord/organ 21:17:07 but I hate the instrument that is called organ 21:17:08 -!- angstrom has changed nick to angstrom_. 21:17:22 cpressey, harpsichord is quite okay 21:17:28 cpressey, organ should be outlawed 21:17:59 organ >> harpsicord, have you ever heard of jazz harpsichord? I don't think so 21:18:07 no 21:18:21 but then I only enjoy jazz when I happen to listen to it 21:18:27 AnMaster: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZXzuIsxb64 if you want a sample (it's alright -- I know I've heard better by him, but I can't find it) 21:18:28 by pure chance 21:18:30 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:18:36 it isn't something I actively try to listen to 21:18:56 hiato, also organ should be outlawed 21:19:01 I still maintain that 21:19:07 it is the worst instrument ever devised 21:19:17 possibly apart from "opera-style singing" 21:19:23 I'm not really happy about any instrument that has only one output level 21:19:41 But I don't think I share AnMaster's organ-hate 21:19:51 cpressey, hm? that would explain a lot about organs 21:19:53 Harp, ugh 21:19:53 if that was so 21:19:58 AnMaster, you have some serious problems, like, the same sort should I choose to code liktheora in malbolge 21:20:01 cpressey, harp can be nice 21:20:20 harp is okay, harp as in harmonica is great 21:20:22 hiato, libtheora in malbolge!? 21:20:23 wth 21:20:35 hiato, I mean, classical harp 21:20:36 AnMaster: yeah, harpsichord has one dynamic only. That's why a piano is called a piano (short for pianoforte, i.e. it can be soft *and* loud) 21:20:45 I have no idea what "harp as in harmonica" *is* 21:21:02 harp is blues/jazz slang for harmonica. very confusing 21:21:11 harp is slang for harmonica 21:21:14 eh, ninja'd 21:21:16 cpressey, what about spinets? 21:21:44 "ninja'd"? 21:21:48 wth does that mean 21:21:58 harmonica is "meh" 21:22:01 neutral 21:22:49 hiato, anyway, I'm not talking about jazz instruments here 21:22:56 god you're STILL talking about music 21:23:03 AnMaster: Not really familiar with them. There are a tonne of percussion/plectra keyboard instruments that have niche roles... 21:23:07 i went to lunch already 21:23:14 lament, we were talking about quines a bit in the middle 21:23:21 AnMaster: harps are not jazz instruments. 21:23:23 lament, but well, there was no other discussion going on 21:23:28 lament, I never claimed that 21:23:32 Actually, I think we're mostly talking about instruments now. 21:23:33 lament, it was hiato who did 21:23:40 AnMaster: from the xkcd forums, someone beats you to someting 21:23:50 hiato, ah... 21:23:52 lament: harp -> harmonica 21:24:00 hiato, xkcd jumped the shark long ago 21:24:00 yes, harmonicas are not jazz instruments 21:24:06 harp -> harmonica confused me for years 21:24:16 harp is harp 21:24:18 nothing else to me 21:24:23 http://goatkcd.com/120/sfw 21:24:26 Yes, because blues is not jazz. 21:24:52 lament, nsfw! 21:25:03 well some people play chromatic harmonicas in a jazz setting 21:25:18 but when people say harp they usually mean diatonic 21:25:21 btw, has anyone invoked rule 34 on rule 34? 21:25:44 AnMaster: jumped the shark? 21:25:49 lament, I also heard Vivaldi's summer on electric guitar 21:25:49 And, FWIW, I don't really like harmonica. 21:25:53 what about rule 42 on rule 34? 21:25:56 lament, go figure 21:26:05 (I didn't like it at all) 21:26:14 Glass harmonicas are much cooler. 21:26:17 lament: ok, fair enough, but my original claim was that organs can be 21:26:25 cpressey: most people play harmonicas really badly 21:26:36 hiato, http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/JumpingTheShark 21:26:51 (sorry for that!) 21:27:03 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XPfoFZYso8 <-- Glass harmonica. Maybe AnMaster will forgive that it sounds kind of like an organ? 21:27:11 (be aware of that tvtroupes is highly addictive!) 21:27:18 After all, harmonica = "mouth organ" 21:27:45 cpressey, How does it work? 21:28:03 AnMaster: Water. 21:28:06 cpressey, but it gave me half a headache I feel 21:28:17 * hiato head will explode, as he cannot debug+chat+chat+irc 21:28:21 cpressey, why is it spinning? 21:28:32 hiato, irc is chat 21:28:35 there is no other chat 21:28:36 well 21:28:38 (never mind blink and breath) 21:28:41 talk 21:28:44 but that is dead 21:28:47 sadly so 21:28:47 haha 21:28:53 I still know some people who use talk 21:28:58 yes seriously! 21:29:05 What? No! 21:29:11 hiato, not only 21:29:12 Surely thou jesteth! 21:29:13 they use irc too 21:29:17 talk, not ntalk? 21:29:22 or gtalk? 21:29:28 cpressey, ntalk? 21:29:32 I'm not sure 21:29:40 like ncurses except for talk, not curses 21:29:41 it uses xinetd I know 21:29:43 i guess 21:29:52 n prolly stood for 'new' 21:29:56 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:29:59 cpressey, ah ytalk was the program talking the talk protocol I think 21:30:05 oh yeah, ytalk 21:30:15 cpressey, what about ntalk then? 21:30:26 cpressey, and glass harmonica is *technically* impressive 21:30:29 well, the name popped into my head 21:30:34 i don't remember where its from 21:30:34 sound is less so 21:30:45 AnMaster: agreed. it's not the prettiest sound. 21:31:07 what has the prettiest sound? 21:31:13 lament, violin 21:31:14 by far 21:31:15 * lament votes cello 21:31:21 violins are high-pitched screechy things 21:31:27 skreeech 21:31:27 lament, they are not 21:31:35 skreeeEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAURGH 21:31:37 they are vibrantly wonderful harmonics! 21:31:43 s/are/have/ 21:31:52 they're too high pitched 21:31:56 lament, I disagree 21:31:58 Yet, violas sound like violins with a chest cold. 21:31:58 -!- dev_squid has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:32:09 violas are too high pitched! 21:32:13 that I agree with 21:32:18 violins are wonderful 21:32:31 lament, but do you hate that range on other instruments? 21:32:42 My vote is either flute or french horn. 21:32:49 I think. 21:33:08 Sax! 21:33:14 (and that's not a typo) 21:33:15 hiato: Which one? 21:33:19 hiato, no that is just silly 21:33:28 hiato, also sure if that is sv:sax 21:33:28 :D 21:33:41 which is en:scissors 21:33:53 I would have to say, of saxophones, probably alto 21:33:53 how do you play music on scissors? 21:33:59 is it like musical bow? 21:34:26 Soprano is too whiny, tenor too throaty, baritone OK except bass clarinet is better 21:34:37 cpressey, but wait, aren't viola's lower pitch than violins? 21:34:42 yet violins sounds better? 21:34:48 AnMaster: yes, they are. 21:34:52 AnMaster: yes, they do. 21:34:56 It's not just about pitch 21:35:03 cpressey, they why do I find violas annoying but violins awesome? 21:35:12 and cello quite okay 21:35:30 of saxophones, definitely baritone 21:35:31 Because violas are fail, I guess 21:35:35 baritone sax is my favourite instrument 21:35:39 sorry! 21:35:40 i mean tenor 21:35:41 AnMaster: heh, I turn my head for two minutes and you go from salto sax -> scissors 21:35:42 not barintone 21:35:42 duh 21:35:44 tisk tisk 21:35:52 tenor sax. best instrument. 21:35:56 other than cello of course. 21:35:59 naah, alto 21:36:05 alto - too high pitched and boring 21:36:10 alto pwns ur vilin n00blar 21:36:11 it lacks character 21:36:18 hiato, :P 21:36:20 only losers play alto 21:36:23 all ur vilin belong to us 21:36:42 stop mixing up two memes -_- 21:36:44 lament: we clearly have different taste 21:36:52 no 21:36:55 have you listened to 50's rock? 21:37:02 have you listened to 30's rock? 21:37:02 hiato, *shudder* 21:37:17 next you are going to say you like rap or country western! 21:37:50 what's a good place to temporarily upload an mp3? 21:37:53 AnMaster: I do like some rap 21:37:58 lament: 30's? No 21:38:00 without creating an account? 21:38:03 I'm talking Fats Domino here 21:38:12 hiato, and yet rap is even worse than country western. And country western is horrible 21:38:15 what was it, er, filehost.rg? 21:38:23 AnMaster: an open mind is key 21:38:25 lament, filebin? 21:38:29 lament, .ca that is 21:38:32 that's it 21:38:36 isn't that one infected by some worm? 21:38:41 lament, is it? 21:38:44 dunno 21:38:59 AnMaster: im so eclectic in my tastes its not even funny, taht is to say, it was never funny to begin with 21:39:04 lament, I thought it was quite a okay one. ais used it for enigma levels iirc 21:39:13 hiato, ? 21:39:40 AnMaster: http://filebin.ca/ducjyo/elise2.mp3 21:40:11 lament, wgetted 21:40:30 lament, how should I put it 21:40:45 hiato: Which rap would that be? 21:40:49 AnMaster: I like everything from hardstyle, house and rap to all the composers above and even square waves and 8bit music 21:40:56 lament, _interesting_ arrangement 21:41:03 lament, quite okay though 21:41:07 Now we're in completely different territory and my tastes are completely different. 21:41:19 There is some rap I like but it is very rare. 21:41:20 cpressey: I like some on eminems work, as well as some israeli groups and some tupac 21:41:27 rap is just unacceptable 21:41:27 cpressey: http://filebin.ca/ducjyo/elise2.mp3 21:41:30 to me 21:41:33 it isn't even music 21:41:34 at all 21:41:43 it should be classified as noise 21:41:57 and a health and safety issue 21:42:31 heh 21:42:33 cute 21:42:44 cpressey, what about "god wrote the world in lisp"? I like it because of it's lyrics only 21:42:56 AnMaster: *never* heard of that :) 21:42:58 but, I hate pop 21:43:07 i hate you :( 21:43:09 songs with words suck, unless they are rap 21:43:27 cpressey, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-OjTPj7K54&fmt=18 21:43:28 Along the lines of modern-but-still-"art/chamber", anyone like Penguin Cafe Orchestra? 21:43:40 hiato, you too 21:43:46 even so, I have found maybe five rap songs out of aa good three hundred that I like 21:43:47 hiato, and that is because of lyrics 21:43:51 not because of the music 21:43:58 cpressey: love penguin cafe 21:44:15 AnMaster: lyrics are part of it duh 21:44:19 hiato: Ha! Suspected so. 21:44:21 lament, yes 21:44:23 lament, ... 21:44:24 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvbCV6E0Wro <-- PCO 21:44:26 cpressey: really? 21:44:33 lament, I said I only liked it because of it's lyrics 21:44:36 AnMaster: wiat, me too what? 21:44:40 hiato: Taste intersection :) 21:44:50 hiato, the link I gave just amove it 21:44:52 above* 21:44:53 i only like bach because of its melody 21:44:57 lolwut! 21:45:10 cpressey: it would seem so :) 21:45:19 AnMaster: I see, youtubing now 21:45:49 cpressey: ever heard of apocalyptica? 21:46:02 -!- coppro has joined. 21:46:39 hiato: I don't think so... 21:46:45 it's four celloists, but they play connected to apms and so 21:46:48 it's brilliant 21:47:00 cpressey, so what do you think about it? 21:47:08 hiato: Do they do covers of Metallica? 21:47:10 heh, catchy tune :P 21:47:13 YES! 21:47:23 so you have heard of them 21:47:28 apocalyptica are awesome :) 21:47:34 hiato, cpressey ^ 21:47:35 ... 21:47:42 hiato: I think I've maybe heard recordings *by* them, but didn't know anything about the group 21:47:43 Asztal: !! 21:47:56 AnMaster: It's queued up, one sec :) 21:48:12 cpressey, you will actually "lol" I think 21:48:13 apocalyptica is the worst shit ever seriously 21:48:18 AnMaster ? It's a catchy tune, but fits rignt into the "I hate men with guiatars category" though the lyrics made me smile 21:48:21 what a retarded bunch of losers 21:48:21 lament ..... 21:48:24 cpressey, and I'm one of those who try to use it correctly 21:48:29 they should strange each other with their strings 21:48:35 Oh god this is horrible 21:48:45 cpressey, the lyrics are fun though 21:49:02 lament: Steve would probably love this 21:49:03 apocalyptica is an injoke, you need to be a metalhead and a cellist to appreciate it and it's still only mildly funny 21:49:18 :D 21:49:26 cpressey, so why did you call it horrible? 21:49:28 lament, er, right, still sounds good to me 21:49:35 well 21:49:43 AnMaster: CHEESY 21:49:44 say some apocalyptica cover of metallica 21:49:44 cpressey, I assume it was that lisp one? 21:49:46 MIGHT sound okay 21:49:48 hiato: you see *lament* is an injoke 21:49:51 but the original sounds better 21:49:54 AnMaster: YES 21:49:56 cpressey, define that 21:49:59 * cpressey is drowning in cheese 21:50:02 so all apocalyptica achieved is to make a piece of music worse 21:50:05 oklokok: it's all starting to make sense :P 21:50:11 cpressey: probably, judging by the title, but i can't listen at work 21:50:12 * AnMaster looks for a dictionary 21:50:33 -!- dougx has joined. 21:50:36 I never bother to look up what "cheesy" meant except in a culinary context 21:50:51 cpressey, since I'm unable to locate a dictionary atm could you explain it 21:51:32 AnMaster: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTD2lKew4iI&feature=related 21:52:21 (oh god it's long, too. six minutes of programming language-based filk is wayyyy too much.) 21:52:38 Um, lessee. Define "cheesy". Well.. 21:52:41 hiato, what an overly dramatic video. also 21:52:44 WHAT THE HELLL 21:52:57 hiato, it is a complete disaster after 00:33 or so 21:53:02 a complete and utter disaster 21:53:03 AnMaster: yes, video sucks 21:53:14 hiato, I have never heard anything this bad 21:53:20 * AnMaster stops playing it 21:53:27 I can not stand listening to the end of it 21:53:35 AnMaster: your taste .[asarsarsars], my taste .{7283748923794} -> longest common subsequence = . 21:54:07 hiato, didn't we both like Grieg? 21:54:18 yep :P that dot was griep 21:54:21 *grieg 21:54:25 ah 21:54:32 but, for example, have you heard flanders and swann? 21:54:43 hiato, US? 21:54:46 Man, "cheesy" is hard to define 21:54:52 hiato, the names are not familiar at all 21:54:53 UK! 21:54:59 hiato, well I live in Sweden so... 21:55:01 "of poor quality through being overdramatic, excessively emotional or clichéd, trite, contrived, shoddy" (wiktionary) 21:55:05 hiato, when did they live? 21:55:07 yeah, sixties-ish entertainers 21:55:08 uk 21:55:09 But that doesn't capture it 21:55:11 oh 21:55:14 that explains it 21:55:32 hiato, I do like Tom Leherer (spelling?) though 21:55:35 American 21:55:46 hiato, both nice music and nice lyrics 21:55:47 Yeah, Lehrer 21:55:52 brialliant 21:55:55 hiato, indeed 21:56:11 whoever posted http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvbCV6E0Wro 21:56:11 you'll probably like flanders an swann 21:56:15 that one wasn't too bad 21:56:18 relatively speaking 21:56:18 they came up with the hippo song 21:56:22 so far at least 21:56:31 well it gets worse a bit in 21:56:39 sounds like percussion? 21:56:48 AnMaster: have you seen funny bones? 21:56:53 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2N_tmH6y7ng <-- there's some more cheese, but instrumental. 21:57:06 which really doesn't have anything to do in music except the occasional bong in Ravel's Bolero or such 21:57:15 hiato, never heard about it 21:57:30 cpressey, queued 21:57:36 cpressey, also did you like the lyrics or not? 21:57:45 related videos (from perpetuum mobile) -> how to build hover shoes 21:57:53 hiato, ^_^ 21:58:05 hiato, but what is that music btw? 21:58:15 which, that harmonium thing? 21:58:21 or funnybones? 21:58:36 ... 21:58:43 "perpetuum mobile" 21:58:44 er? 21:58:45 ... 21:58:48 Wow, wait, we're still talking about music? 21:58:50 what is it? 21:59:12 Gregor: well there's at least 1000 years to get through 21:59:17 :P 21:59:35 whoever posted http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZXzuIsxb64 : quite nice so far 21:59:58 AnMaster: I will say they are the most intensely programming-language-related lyrics I have heard yet. 22:00:03 harpsichord? 22:00:08 thttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZXzuIsxb64 <- YUGH! 22:00:10 it doesn't sound like piano 22:00:22 yeah 22:00:25 cpressey, I remember some about qbasic btw 22:00:26 or honky-tonk 22:00:32 Of course, my main point of comparison is Guy Steele's "Lambda Bound" (to the tune of "Homeward Bound") 22:00:33 hiato, it was quite a nice sound 22:00:35 IMO 22:00:37 hiato, :) 22:00:44 hiato, in fact wonderful sound 22:00:49 I like harpsichord 22:01:01 this trumps all: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ht96HJ01SE4&feature=player_embedded# 22:01:31 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:02:11 hiato, cpressey, lament, Gregor: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpH0QnVQi0A&fmt=18 22:02:12 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 22:02:17 not the best recording 22:02:23 also the C sharp minor version is better yet 22:02:26 hiato: Yes, it probably does. 22:02:26 AnMaster: watch my last one damnit! 22:02:29 but couldn't find it on youtube 22:02:31 hiato, queued 22:02:31 cpressey: :D 22:02:39 THIS MUSIC IS SO PRETENTIOUS 22:02:44 * Gregor runs 22:02:46 Gregor, what one? 22:02:49 I invoke ajump 22:02:56 Oh yeah, I've heard this. 22:03:00 It's very ... classical. 22:03:04 Gregor, :) 22:03:05 whose? 22:03:07 wonderful isn't it? 22:03:16 if it is the one I linked last 22:03:18 not watching youtube at work, what is it? 22:03:24 Too bad you can't actually queue youtube videos (in a simple way) 22:03:26 Frankly I'm not much of a classical guy, I much prefer the romantic era. 22:03:27 lament, Joseph Martin Kraus 22:03:41 oh 22:03:54 cpressey, you can. Open in separate tabs. Copy the urls to youtube-dl -b command 22:04:02 cpressey, since you don't have flash installed 22:04:03 :P 22:04:43 cpressey, hiato Gregor: oi! This contains both C minor and C# minor versions after each other: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbhA7NRZTZ0 22:04:46 so you can compare 22:04:56 remember to add &fmt=18 to that of course 22:04:58 AnMaster: I must say, it's pleasant, but not my style 22:05:01 That one I listened to the last time you linked it :P 22:05:07 Gregor, the comparing one? 22:05:09 hm maybe 22:05:31 Ok, listening to Kraus now, and... 22:05:37 AnMaster: Now take the two versions and overlay them. 22:06:15 Gregor, sound quality is better in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbhA7NRZTZ0&fmt=35 22:06:20 that is the best version of it 22:06:21 :) 22:06:27 it seems 22:06:29 AnMaster: That's not both versions too, is it? 22:06:38 Gregor, that is both versions separately yes 22:06:48 Does everybody play both versions? :P 22:06:50 Gregor, I just forget to add &fmt=35 to it 22:06:54 Oh, that's the same link, durp 22:06:54 -_- 22:07:41 AnMaster: to put things back in perspective: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_hOR50u7ek one of my all time fvourites 22:07:58 cpressey listened to that "cheesy" one, don't get what you mean at all 22:08:01 It's pretty good. But it's hard to see how it would not be called equally "pompous" when say Tschiakovsky would 22:08:28 "It sounds less ... gay than Tchaikovsky" 22:08:49 Gregor, everything does 22:09:01 I take offense 22:09:06 your mom is less way than tchaikovsky 22:09:19 AnMaster: programming language are not something to sing about 22:09:25 Is "way" some crazy Finnish ... way ... to say "gay"? 22:09:30 Marche slave is brilliant, the 1812 is fantiastic, swan lake is unrivaled 22:09:38 this trumps all: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ht96HJ01SE4&feature=player_embedded# <-- on instrument awesomeness yes 22:09:42 but what is the music 22:09:45 i typoed it and realized it was better that way 22:09:53 Queen, bohemian rhapsody 22:10:17 hiato: I take offense to the fact that you assume I meant "gay" negatively, and not simply that all of his music is imbued with his gayness :P 22:10:27 Bahahaah! 22:10:32 I actually laughed out loud 22:10:39 hiato, and what is that instrument in that video? 22:10:43 at, whatever it is here, er, ten past 10 22:10:52 *12 22:11:00 AnMaster: it's a scanner 22:11:06 and a floppy disk drive 22:11:07 hiato, old one indeed 22:11:20 hiato, also some other instruments I suspect? 22:11:31 well, the oscilliscope buzzes 22:11:38 and the tape drive sort of clicks 22:11:57 and then there's that static melody sound from the waveform gen I assume 22:12:25 hiato, heck that digital scope looks very similar to the ones we have at university 22:12:34 just looks ours is one or two models after it 22:12:49 and now, without further adue, and before I offend the possibly homo Gregor again, I must leave, got an early morning tomorrow 22:12:52 (or they didn't change much) 22:12:54 but cheers all, twas fun 22:13:00 AnMaster: ooooh, that sucks :P 22:13:06 hiato, oh? 22:13:12 hiato, it was the digital ones at least 22:13:13 ! 22:13:23 hiato, also introductory course 22:13:32 tomorrow i'll sleep till noon and never wake up! 22:13:32 I think there are other ones as well 22:13:36 heh, digital >= 1921 (invention of transistor) 22:13:42 -!- alise has joined. 22:13:44 08:09:23 it seems like every ten seconds it parks itself, then pops up a little dialog box to let you know it parked 22:13:46 hiato, I meant the one with the square display 22:13:48 I disabled the dialog box. 22:13:56 wow, delay 22:13:58 anyway, cheers 22:14:02 hiato, cia 22:14:04 cya* 22:14:08 -_- 22:14:10 Hi alise, would you like to talk about music? 22:14:17 -!- hiato has quit (Quit: leaving). 22:14:37 Um... sure? For what particular reason? 22:15:13 Past ~3 hrs, that's all the channel has been talking about. 22:15:36 And some people seemed annoyed by this. 22:15:39 alise, hiato posted this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ht96HJ01SE4 22:15:40 So it was kind of an in-joke. 22:15:41 awesome 22:15:53 cpressey, so what did you think about Kraus btw? 22:16:12 what kind of musical discussion? 22:16:29 alise, pre-1900 mostly with a few more modern mentions 22:16:46 Since you said that, I'll take it to mean "contemporary pop music". 22:16:49 alise, very music "which is the best (vulgar sense) classical composer" 22:16:54 AnMaster: He's OK. Like I said, he seems almost as "pompous" as any romantic, Russian composer to me. 22:17:00 "Best" is such a vulgar word. 22:17:21 cpressey, hardly. Well that recording maybe. I suggest you listen to the recording I have at home 22:17:32 cpressey, which was performed by chamber "orchestra" 22:17:36 cpressey, sounds much better 22:17:41 Allow me to inject some true vulgarity into the discussion: Autechre have a new album out. 22:17:56 alise, yeargh 22:18:11 cpressey, look what you done. alise is the one who likes *really* weird music 22:18:17 Eat bleeps and die, AnMaster! 22:18:26 Hey, cpressey mentioned KFDforgotten the rest of the name. 22:18:32 So we're only seven lightyears apart. 22:18:33 alise, you admitted that yourself a bit before 22:18:35 well 22:18:39 quite some time ago 22:18:43 From my position you're not even in the observable universe 22:19:32 If you want to get into modern music, yes, I like KMFDM. And Rage Against the Machine. And Bad Religion. And Rammstein. 22:19:44 Which is sort of a paradigm shift away from "classical" 22:20:03 I don't think I've ever heard of Autechre 22:20:12 Mwah, a bot-tweet: "About NetHack: slay, a long sword is not a number! i am. xander: let go of frodo, and of knowledge, including mit and stanford, and he..." Yes, a long sword and a number indeed have some crucial differences. 22:21:21 -!- dougx has left (?). 22:21:22 fizzie: Is that fungot, or is there another twitterbot out there somewhere that fungot is having a conversation with? 22:22:19 It was fungot. Or, well, the same babbling-algorithm, anyway; it's not exactly the same script that's doing the tweeting. 22:23:09 But a twitter account called "theirctrout" had slapped fungot a bit with a large trout, for some reason; possibly because it mentioned the word IRC in there. 22:23:20 fizzie, is the script written in befunge? 22:23:55 Twungot actually replies to all mentions of its name, so it said "@theirctrout should be called when the tracer tries to write moving code? hah. foxfire, throw is broken. c supports it however you want" as a reply. 22:23:55 Autechre is basically the result of catting /dev/random to /dev/audio. 22:24:01 Well, the later stuff, at least. 22:24:25 Autechre is basically the result of catting /dev/random to /dev/audio. <-- see, I said you preferred the weird music 22:24:27 alise: It does sound a little random, to me. 22:24:43 AnMaster: Not (yet). I was tempted by the easiness of doing the Twitter API bits with a normal language. Maybe I'll Funge-98 it later. 22:24:53 I'm promoting Penguin Cafe Orchestra, here. 22:25:06 cpressey, what is that? 22:25:06 Listening to a 30 second snippet sort of defeats the point of seeing all the motifs being randomly shuffled about. 22:25:14 But then you have to be crazy anyway. 22:25:50 AnMaster: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvbCV6E0Wro <-- you might like them, it's sort of modern chamber music. 22:26:07 cpressey, if that was the one you linked before? 22:26:09 then yes 22:26:12 I liked it 22:26:14 Yes. 22:26:20 Hail. 22:26:26 cpressey, a bit too much hits of percussion though 22:27:17 this one's weirder: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZygIVDql8Bk 22:27:38 cpressey, well yeah. I don't really like that one 22:28:14 cpressey, also very weird video 22:28:41 Yyyyyyyes. 22:28:51 cpressey, but the music alone is weird 22:30:33 cpressey, anything good by them apart from the first one? 22:32:25 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqpBs8q9iZQ is OK 22:32:45 Has an organ in it though (well, a harmonium) 22:33:19 I like this one! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqBHWOzNBU8 22:33:28 One must be gay to not use "gay" as an insult? Hm. 22:33:55 cpressey, this one is pretty wtf (the movie): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLQYnyvN6fA 22:34:16 Using the word "gay" in an entirely appropriate and non-pejorative manner makes me quite gay. 22:34:49 pikhq: it also makes you quite ay. 22:34:51 gay. 22:35:03 I think I'm in love with Ruby's throw/catch 22:35:14 ive never used it 22:35:16 Sgeo: nobody uses it. also it's different from begin/rescue for no reason 22:35:44 I imagine that throw/catch would be used for non-exceptional flow 22:35:51 And begin/rescue for dealing with errors 22:35:55 I didn't know it even had throw/catch :/ 22:36:27 If I'm in the middle of a loop asking for user input, I can see myself using it for when the user does a quit thing 22:36:27 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqpBs8q9iZQ is OK <-- well, too much pop somehow 22:36:32 cpressey, maybe it is the clear beat 22:37:01 cpressey, the type of music I prefer don't use percussion to mark the beat 22:37:17 Sgeo: nobody uses it 22:37:20 also: "break" 22:37:38 Suppose it's in a nested loop, and I want to directly leave the inner one, then 22:37:46 erm, leave both 22:38:57 * cpressey goes back to Mendelssohn 22:39:24 Also, I love Ruby's Fibers 22:39:39 fibers? 22:39:56 cpressey, Kraus ftw. With proper chamber orchestra 22:44:56 09:50:17 I wonder which language Swiss reduces to 'ch' in ... 22:44:59 latin 22:45:03 confederico (sp) helvetica 22:45:07 no swiss language 22:45:09 alise: That was answered a long time ago :P 22:45:11 well maybe an old one 22:45:13 Gregor: :P 22:47:22 cpressey, this was one good recording of vivaldi's summer (last movement) btw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u12_M4I2KxE&fmt=18 22:48:24 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7F4z8FV6ME <-- my absolute favourite of Beethoven. 22:48:43 cpressey, queued! 22:49:10 AnMaster: likewise 22:49:49 cpressey, the recording of vivaldi's summer that I prefer is different 22:49:53 have the cd next to me 22:49:58 it isn't even naxos 22:52:16 -!- alise has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:52:50 cpressey, http://musicbrainz.org/release/d875de37-cb74-4c2b-8218-399cd64cfa4f.html 22:53:27 cpressey, this cd it seems http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=169771 22:55:07 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:55:28 cpressey, that is the best recording of the four seasons I have yet heard 22:55:40 cpressey, as for your Beethoven link. Meh 22:55:47 cpressey, nice bg music 22:56:01 but not something I will remember 2 minutes after 22:56:17 Annoyance: There are two Ruby channels 22:56:26 Sgeo, oh? are there? 22:56:36 we need to add one more then 22:56:39 The only distinctions are the people in them and the name. And one is "official", but that doesn't make it more active 22:56:45 #ruby and #ruby-lang 22:57:01 let's make #ruby-real 22:57:08 315 in #ruby 317 in #ruby-lang 22:57:15 AnMaster: this is a rather violent rendition of "Summer" 22:58:48 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:59:18 cpressey, indeed! 22:59:24 cpressey, but I love it 22:59:48 cpressey, the one "best recording" is somewhere in between the normal tempo and that "violent" one 22:59:53 * cpressey goes back to his "background" music 23:02:35 http://codu.org/music/vg/zee5.ogg Background music! 23:02:36 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:03:02 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:04:05 cpressey, I agree that Kraus youtube video is somewhat pompous yes. I really should dcc you the flac I have of it locally! 23:04:07 :/ 23:05:59 * cpressey never knows what to make of Gregor's compositions 23:06:13 Gregor, I think I've heard that before 23:06:20 Is that the one you were using to test that thing? 23:06:41 Sgeo: Yeah. 23:06:49 cpressey, I love some of them 23:07:39 * AnMaster listen to this last one 23:07:53 Gregor, square wave?! 23:07:59 Sawtooth. 23:08:07 Gregor, :(((((((((((((((( 23:08:20 This is supposed to be pseudo-retro-video-game music. 23:08:20 Gregor, sine wave is the only correct shape for music! 23:08:27 Poor horns :P 23:08:28 I keep seeing dancers in trenchcoats and fedoras on an elevated stage 23:08:40 Gregor, and yes okay in that capacity... 23:08:48 lol 23:08:51 Gregor, but then it should be more beepy 23:08:56 Someone linked somewhere.. osgeo.org 23:09:02 It must be the finger snaps 23:09:02 AnMaster: Hence "pseudo" 23:09:09 Gregor, all all of it should be such 23:10:03 And it's something I'm not necessarily opposed to! 23:10:05 Try a different style and everybody just complains :P 23:10:11 [Sgeo also stands for Sacred Geometry] 23:10:18 How 'bout http://codu.org/music/vg/zee3.ogg 23:10:19 * cpressey wasn't complaining 23:10:35 * cpressey was hallucinating mildly, is all 23:10:39 lol 23:11:00 Gregor, I just dislike non-sine :( 23:11:28 Sine wave is so DULL. 23:11:32 No friggin' overtones. 23:11:34 Gregor, I accept cos too! 23:11:54 How 'bout http://codu.org/music/vg/zee3.ogg <-- nice 23:12:44 May or may not be playable on a real accordion :P 23:13:02 Well, whatever the reason, Gregor's music makes me hallucinate 23:13:07 Gregor, heh 23:13:19 cpressey, what do you see? 23:13:39 -!- tombom_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:13:46 A log cabin in the woods 23:13:55 Gregor, what about real instruments? they get overtones? 23:14:00 Gregor, why isn't op12 listed on codu.org/music? 23:14:07 AnMaster: Uhhh, yes? 23:14:12 Sgeo: It's not finished, that's a work in progress preview. 23:14:16 Gregor, and why can't you get that on sine? 23:14:27 AnMaster: The mathematical properties of sine waves. 23:14:40 AnMaster, how do you know about Sine waves? 23:14:41 Their perfection is their imperfection. 23:14:42 erm, Sine? 23:14:51 Sgeo: Stop being an idiot :P 23:14:52 Gregor, so do something closer to real instruments then? 23:14:59 OK, I'll go with ... a sawtooth wave. 23:15:01 Gregor, I'm allowed to be silly 23:15:06 Sgeo, I know about sine too btw 23:15:21 I see no reason this couldn't be played on a real accordion (not that I can play accordion) 23:15:28 Sgeo, the issue is we can't detect when you are genuinely idiotic or when you are just silly 23:15:49 How often am I genuinely idiotic? :( 23:15:54 cpressey: There's the issue, I have no idea what the limits of a real accordion are :P 23:16:11 * AnMaster gets the other zee*.ogg 23:16:24 Eh, the rest are less good than those two. 23:16:31 Gregor, too late 23:16:36 Gregor, ooh I like zee1! 23:16:54 Gregor, but what is that "weird" instrument 23:17:01 Gregor: Well, it's basically a keyboard with a 2- to 3- octave range, I believe. The buttons add "pre-programmed" chords iirc. 23:17:01 "Ice rain", it's a synth effect. 23:17:05 Gregor, ah 23:17:34 Gregor, low quality sound fount for zee1? 23:17:43 cpressey: Yes, but the pre-programmed chords available vary, to my knowledge, from instrument to instrument. They certainly include a fifth, major and minor thirds, sevenths and augmented sevenths, but beyond that, Idonno. 23:17:44 or meant to be that way? 23:18:10 AnMaster: For which instrument? I actually downgraded the piano intentionally, the accordion is good, the others were the best I could find. 23:18:23 Gregor, piano mainly 23:18:31 but okay 23:18:37 Yeah, the piano I downgraded because the others were OK-ish but not great, and the piano stood out too much ;P 23:18:43 The .. pacing of a bit of zee1 is a bit off-putting, but other than that, it's a bit nice 23:18:50 Gregor, all needs to be perfect piano level 23:18:53 Gregor, kind of 23:19:20 Sgeo, how is the pacing "off-putting" 23:19:29 what is off-putting is that it ends in the middle of a tone 23:19:41 AnMaster: zee* loop 23:19:45 Hm, it's been a hell of a long time since I've written any music. Most of my compositions are lost due to various forms of data loss. 23:19:48 Gregor, aha! 23:19:50 It's just.. awkward, somehow 23:19:59 Sgeo, no it is not 23:20:10 it is perfect except for needing higher quality samples 23:20:13 Maybe not pacing, but I keep getting the impression that bits are not aligned with other bits temporally, or something 23:20:18 Gregor, zee2 is interesting 23:20:35 Gregor, what are the instruments in zee2? Does it include xylophone? 23:21:03 Marimba. 23:21:11 Gregor, is that something similar? 23:21:21 Half the things I wrote were saved in a proprietary format for a software package that doesn't even install properly on any windows since Windows 95. 23:21:25 IIRC, a marimba is basically identical to a xylophone except that it has resonators. 23:21:37 ah 23:21:39 At least, the means by which it produces a tone is basically identical, the layout is a bit different. 23:22:15 Also, marimba tends to be played with felt-covered mallets, iirc 23:22:33 Oh wait, so does xylo. 23:22:36 I was thinking glock. 23:22:44 Metal against metal 23:22:49 Very pretty. 23:22:50 cpressey: The marimba is to the xylophone as the vibraphone is to the glockenspiel. 23:23:13 Conversely, the marimba is to the vibraphone as the xylophone is to the glockenspiel. 23:23:42 Percussion instrument homomorphisms 23:23:54 Gregor, zee4 is interesting 23:24:11 Gregor, zee2 was a bit nervous if you see what I mea 23:24:12 mean* 23:24:20 I haven't a clue :P 23:24:22 Gregor, zee1 was best IMO 23:24:23 AnMaster, you passed zee3. I take it that zee3 isn't particularly interesting? 23:24:33 Sgeo, we went over that one first didn't we? 23:24:38 Oh, right 23:24:55 Ayy zee1 now I'm in Eastern Europe somewhere, possibly Prague 23:25:05 oh? 23:25:09 I didn't feel that 23:25:13 Someone is trying to sell me a watch! 23:25:18 but zee1 with better samples = total win 23:25:43 Gregor, zee4: Wait, why are we playing Perfect Dark in an n64 emulator? 23:25:46 :P 23:25:50 ? 23:25:57 Gregor, it makes me think of that game 23:26:10 Gregor, never played it? 23:26:12 Nope 23:26:20 Did its music too use a heartbeat as a percussive instrument? 23:26:26 Gregor, some levels have some music in the same style 23:26:29 Gregor, no 23:26:35 but other parts of it 23:26:41 was similar 23:27:06 Gregor, or it *MIGHT* have. I don't know 23:27:54 Apparently, asking in ruby why the channel exists is a Frequently Asked Question, considering how someone said "We need an FAQ" 23:28:08 Gregor, so total ordering: zee1 (needs better samples) > zee4 > the rest 23:28:52 Gee, my favorites didn't even make the list :P 23:29:06 Gregor, not my fault :P 23:30:19 Gregor, I think zee3 was at the bottom 23:30:23 zee5 just above it 23:30:27 Wow X-D 23:30:30 so that leaves zee2 in between 23:30:44 * Sgeo finds it somewhat difficult to form opinions sometimes 23:30:52 -!- coppro has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 23:31:16 Gregor, and zee2 felt towards the end like the performer had nervous reactions or something 23:31:40 Gregor, I think it is the fast paced playing on Marimba that does it 23:31:52 Gregor, apart from that zee2 is quite nice 23:32:48 Gregor, oh and I don't really like accordion 23:32:55 Bahaha 23:33:00 But there's accordion in zee1 :P 23:33:10 Gregor, well, not as noticable 23:33:24 Because it's not playing like an accordion. 23:33:31 In zee3 it's actually playing like an accordion. 23:33:33 Gregor, that explains it! 23:35:32 Gregor, zee5 could raise a lot of you could get a nicer wave form but keep the electronic feel 23:35:53 Gregor, or maybe just fuzz out it or something 23:36:07 so it didn't poke you in the ear basically 23:37:12 night → 23:39:24 zee5 > zee3 > zee1 > zee2 > zee4 23:42:56 -!- jcp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:44:53 Sorry, I can't even get to the end of zee4. 23:45:06 They took call/cc out of Ruby :( 23:45:34 Sgeo: I thought someone told me here the other day they decided to put it back in 23:45:59 o.O? 23:46:00 -!- jcp has joined. 23:46:10 They will be removing and re-adding it to every other version from now on. 23:47:34 hey, I can't blame them, I waffle plenty on my own designs 23:51:01 call/cc, though. 23:53:06 I can imagine the arguments that must go on about it, on their mailing list. 23:53:40 "No one uses that!" "I do!" "It's hard to implement efficiently on the JVM!" "That shouldn't be a consideration!" etc 23:53:47 "call/cc is hard!" 23:53:54 basically, yes. 23:53:56 "LOL USE LISP" 23:53:59 "I'll call/cc your MOM hard!" 23:54:00 continuations make the baby jesus cry 23:54:13 cpressey: That's quite ridiculous. 23:54:19 Baby Jesus invented continuations. 23:54:40 pikhq: Sorry, I missed quote marks on that one. 23:54:46 And it was an actual quote, too 23:54:52 Ah. 23:55:14 Continuations are, like, the ultimate form of flow control. 23:55:33 Anonymous feedback from a classmate from when I took a programming languages class a few years ago 23:56:05 You take classes in which they teach continuations? 23:56:08 * Sgeo is jealous 23:57:05 Yes, it was nice of them. They *almost* managed to teach us monads in that cirriculum, too. 23:57:07 *Almost*.