< 1266366049 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1266366980 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1266367093 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1266367708 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1266367901 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1266368286 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1266368307 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still feel defeated wrt. that robozzle thing < 1266368521 0 :oklopol!~oklopol@a91-153-117-208.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1266368880 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1266368886 0 :Azstal!~asztal@host86-159-108-27.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1266369732 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: zzz < 1266370267 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1266370761 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1266370940 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1266371479 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1266372534 0 :oklopol!~oklopol@a91-153-117-208.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1266375134 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1266375410 0 :cheater!~cheater@62.176.155.187 JOIN :#esoteric < 1266376395 0 :augur_!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1266376397 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1266376737 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1266376989 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1266379125 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1266379156 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1266379197 0 :oklopol!~oklopol@a91-153-117-208.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1266379701 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1266379744 0 :oklopol!~oklopol@a91-153-117-208.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1266380029 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1266380044 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1266382243 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: 2 hour UPS expired. Shutting down laptop. < 1266382311 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1266382346 0 :oklopol!~oklopol@a91-153-117-208.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1266385181 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, http://xkcd.com/703/ is actually pretty good :P < 1266385244 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is. < 1266385390 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alas. < 1266385411 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like an xkcd from the time span where it got really popular because it was funny. < 1266385840 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1266385843 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still no questionable content < 1266386222 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.manjulaskitchen.com/ < 1266386224 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indian food : < 1266386225 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1266386901 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1266387153 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grmph xkcd loads just a ... blank page? < 1266387195 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XKCD don't need you Nordic types. < 1266387220 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph the page source is definitely not blank < 1266387351 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :old comics too... < 1266387443 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Works fine for me. < 1266387450 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XKCD just don't need you Nordic types. < 1266387471 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1266388067 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :augur < 1266388125 0 :dbc!~daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1266388329 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forgot about XKCD tonight < 1266388379 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's awesome < 1266388411 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :smbc is more regularly humorous < 1266388503 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That "most dangerous game" one was cute. < 1266388538 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Yes, yes it is. < 1266388549 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is, in fact, *usually* humorous. < 1266388641 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god this woman has a tamarind chutney recipe < 1266388647 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :god this is the best recipe website ever < 1266388730 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If 1,000,000 people join, wouldn't the group have 1,000,001, including the creator? < 1266388739 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or what if a bunch of people join, then leave? < 1266388753 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D: < 1266388773 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Omnomnom. < 1266388781 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know :( < 1266388785 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tamarind chutney is the best < 1266388786 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BEST < 1266388789 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fucking chutney < 1266388791 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever < 1266389004 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Night all < 1266389009 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes to cry himself to sleep
< 1266389029 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_O < 1266389054 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://raglanshire.com/2010/02/in-memory-of-our-friend-stillpink/ < 1266389246 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1266389278 0 :oklopol!~oklopol@a91-153-117-208.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1266389426 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I am leaving. You are about to explode. < 1266389460 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*BOOOOOM* < 1266389570 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1266389899 0 :oklopol!~oklopol@a91-153-117-208.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1266389972 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1266390054 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1266390178 0 :oklopol!~oklopol@a91-153-117-208.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1266390184 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1266390276 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like that show < 1266390442 0 :MigoMipo!~migomipo@84-217-11-133.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1266391460 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I will do anything (almost) for a new router. < 1266391712 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1266391952 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1266393560 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1266393599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1266393600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1266394125 0 :oklopol!~oklopol@a91-153-117-208.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1266394484 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1266394697 0 :base3__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1266394796 0 :base3!~rk@host81-141-239-237.wlms-broadband.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1266394828 0 :lifthrasiir!pWRaf6Jl@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1266395615 0 :base3!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1266396040 0 :base3_!~rk@host81-141-239-205.wlms-broadband.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1266396048 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1266396199 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1266396380 0 :oklopol!~oklopol@a91-153-117-208.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1266396771 0 :base3_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1266396852 0 :base3!~rk@host81-141-239-192.wlms-broadband.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1266397646 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1266398780 0 :oklopol!~oklopol@a91-153-117-208.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1266398844 0 :tombom!~tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1266398864 0 :addicted!~addicted@217.219.111.150 JOIN :#esoteric < 1266399604 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1266402491 0 :AnMaster_!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1266402857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1266404953 0 :AnMaster_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :AnMaster < 1266406021 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1266406952 0 :base3!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1266409825 0 :Pthing!~pthing@cpc11-pres4-0-0-cust168.pres.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1266412728 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1266413859 0 :addicted!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1266417338 0 :oklogon!~oklopol@a91-153-117-208.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1266417376 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1266417665 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1266417886 0 :Pthing!~pthing@cpc11-pres4-0-0-cust168.pres.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1266419082 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1266419176 0 :cpressey!~CPressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1266420055 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1266420486 0 :MissPiggy!~none@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1266422672 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1266422980 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1266426050 0 :MigoMipo!~migomipo@84-217-11-157.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1266426739 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1266428330 0 :cheater2!~cheater@ip-80-226-219-95.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1266428865 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1266429418 0 :Asztal!~asztal@host86-159-108-27.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1266430412 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1266430550 0 :cheater2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1266431376 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1266431389 0 :cheater2!~cheater@ip-80-226-14-244.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1266431826 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1266432173 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1266432233 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1266432253 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1266433022 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MigoMipo_Zwei < 1266433031 0 :MigoMipo_Zwei!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MigoMipo < 1266433930 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1266434021 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1266434632 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FWIW, I just added 3 entries to my "unfinished esolang designs" list ( http://catseye.tc/cpressey/louie.html ) -- Faradaisical, Kig, and Milab. < 1266434958 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that supposed to be an all-inclusive list? :D < 1266434974 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha. < 1266435301 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In case it's not clear from the page, those are the ideas I have basically given up on, but which I consider too interesting to be simply discarded. < 1266435356 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1266438786 0 :bsmntbombdood_!~gavin@97-118-248-38.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1266438905 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1266440381 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1266440627 0 :gm|lap!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1266440646 0 :oklogon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faradaisical has a great name < 1266440865 0 :scarf!~scarf@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1266441009 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1266441156 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... Are there groups that have multiple-element minimal generators that don't decompose into multiple groups (w.r.t. cartesian product). If there are, wonder if they would be useful for constructing esolang... < 1266441258 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1266441318 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, there are, at least D2 (Klein-Four group). That has minimal generator size of 2 but doesn't decompose. < 1266441435 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But are there groups that have all elements in generator set have sizable order? < 1266443222 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1266443512 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1266443835 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :bsmntbombdood < 1266444064 0 :SimonRC!~sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1266444228 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1266444461 0 :lament!~lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1266444929 0 :oklogon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1266446137 0 :MissPiggy!~none@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1266446161 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1266447052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, that went completely over my head XD < 1266447070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it about topology again? < 1266447394 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No. But I think I have solved most problems with wormholes except for how various operations affecting IP delta would behave. < 1266447417 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this in Funge? < 1266447423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, hm? < 1266447458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, you mean like the MODE fingerprint which changes <>^v and such to affect position not delta (or various other variants)? < 1266447485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://catseye.tc/projects/funge98/library/MODE.html < 1266447493 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Nope, just basic befunge operations that set IP delta. < 1266447586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, well, those are ^v<>x for unconditional. A few more in trefunge < 1266447596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus some conditional ones < 1266447599 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like w_| < 1266447618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and the random cardinal direction ? of course < 1266447640 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MODE doesn't work on h or l? < 1266447643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and I forgot [ and ] that turns 90 degrees (counterclockwise/clockwise < 1266447644 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1266447647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, no clue < 1266447670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, it doesn't work on w either it seems < 1266447673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then < 1266447678 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w is relative current always < 1266447683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is turn left/right < 1266447689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or go straight ahead < 1266447690 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if there couldn't be operators inside wormhole, that would mean no IP delta changes there either... < 1266447692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depending on compare < 1266447702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, why couldn't there be? < 1266447744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, and of course there should be possible to have wormholes between wormholes and normal space < 1266447784 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Because normal space have two equivalent dimensions, but wormholes have longitudial direction and transverse direction, and those most definitely aren't equivalent. In fact, what direction is longitudial depends on direction wormhole was hit. < 1266447822 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Do you have docs on how wormholes work as of now? < 1266447824 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, so there could be no code inside a wormhole? < 1266447828 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do I need to look in the logs? < 1266447838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, they aren't implemented anywhere yet < 1266447842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is theorising about it < 1266447847 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1266447854 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but one can have docs without an implementation < 1266447867 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, logs the last week or so I guess < 1266447870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grep for wormhole < 1266447878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't have too many irrelevant hits < 1266447936 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty much the only basic operations that are problematic are those that set absolute IP delta... '[' and ']' wouldn't be... < 1266447986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, well, if you hit a cell with ^ in, you go the direction where ^ is written < 1266447989 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wormholes within wormholes would really mess up tracking about what direction wormhole was entered from. < 1266447997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, one issue would be *how to write* inside the wormhole < 1266448005 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since what is the x/y coordinate < 1266448022 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wormhole endpoint has x/y coordinate, but that's a gap in space. < 1266448040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, you need to be able to give current x/y coord, the y command (sysinfo) includes that amongst many other things < 1266448105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even you made y inside a wormhole invalid, you would still need some coordinate system for use by the interpreter itself < 1266448163 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Libstertas < 1266448242 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: how do wormholes work? < 1266448291 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The standard befunge coordinates form a group. Wormholes would break that. WORM would be one heck of a feral fingerprint (not as bad as TRDS, but quite bad). < 1266448311 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1266448338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, agreed. I doubt I would implement it < 1266448352 0 :Libstertas!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :LibsterBib < 1266448495 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Explain? < 1266448521 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Coordinate addition is no longer associative in presence of wormholes. < 1266448536 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_o < 1266448538 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1266448574 0 :oklopol!~oklopol@a91-153-117-208.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1266448588 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: why couldn't a ring have absorptino? < 1266448591 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*absorption < 1266448608 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are also proerties like: If at t = 0, two IPs are at the same point, have different IP deltas that will not change, in standard funge, those IPs will never be at same point again, whereas with wormholes, they could. < 1266448636 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Ilari: But are there groups that have all elements in generator set have sizable order?" <<< what's sizable order? < 1266448646 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would they never return to the same place? < 1266448654 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, they would have to < 1266448668 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: There prsumably means much larger than 2. < 1266448670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : There are also proerties like: If at t = 0, two IPs are at the same point, have different IP deltas that will not change, in standard funge, those IPs will never be at same point again, whereas with wormholes, they could. <-- wraparound < 1266448680 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah yeah. < 1266448682 0 :LibsterBib!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :pthing < 1266448699 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: The only x where x * x = x in a ring is x = 1. And the only y where y + y = y is y = 0. < 1266448716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, one goes straight up one goes straight left, they will hit the same place again assuming width/height ever match up < 1266448749 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: the free group generated by {x, y, z} has pretty sizable order for the generators. < 1266448771 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: But doesn't it also decompose w.r.t. cartesian product? < 1266448785 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: why? < 1266448795 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latter is obvious, i don't see why the first one is < 1266448806 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: I'm still really not clear what this is supposed to be doing :/ < 1266448838 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: My ring theory is rusty. < 1266448841 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ forms an abelian group, but . just needs to distribute over + and possibly have 1. < 1266448868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, some questions about TURT btw. < 1266448879 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y + y = y => y = 0, by adding -y to both sides < 1266448904 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but x^2 = x <=> xx - x = 0 <=> x(x - 1) = 0 < 1266448908 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can have < 1266448908 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I think free group from {x, y, z} is the same as Z x Z x Z. < 1266448916 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(H + x) + (H + y) = H + (x + y) if H is a coset < 1266448917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, mainly, is U supposed to return the same value all the time (max bounds supported)? Or is it current bounds of the drawing? < 1266448930 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: what would xyx be in Z^3? < 1266448935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, if the former I have an issue, bignum again :/ < 1266448950 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: and if it's not a domain, i don't see why x would have to be 1 or 0 if x(x - 1) = 0 < 1266448965 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, free groups are noncommutative. < 1266448975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, another thing, how is the coordinate supposed to be handled. Round to nearest integer? You can easily get non-integers when you move an integer distance along an integer heading < 1266448984 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-integers for x and y that is < 1266449024 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Your guess is as good as mine. < 1266449034 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, you wrote TURT though < 1266449048 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: for abelian groups, we can in fact split all groups up into pieces sort of like you guessed, but groups in general can do pretty much anything, at least afaik. < 1266449050 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, more than a decade ago. < 1266449058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, since I render to svg in cfunge (and will do same in efunge) I can use floating point coordinates < 1266449082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can query coordinates in TURT, but that should return integer < 1266449109 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x(x - 1) = 0 could have other solutions than just x = 0 and x = 1 if operation is done in ring that's not integral domain. < 1266449145 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5*4=0 < 1266449150 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mod 20 :P < 1266449155 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm sure you won't break many existing TURT-using Befunge-98 programs if you just pick a behaviour that sounds reasonable :) < 1266449176 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2*3 = 0 in Z_6 if you want an example < 1266449178 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And indeed 5^2 = 25 = 5 (mod 20). < 1266449189 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1266449194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, that's x^2-x=0 ? Which gives x= 1/2 +/- sqrt(2^2/4) ? < 1266449207 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err wait < 1266449209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typoed that < 1266449215 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x= 1/2 +/- sqrt(1^2/4) ? < 1266449219 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course < 1266449260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :modulo style thingies are confusing ;P < 1266449279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least when using it that way < 1266449285 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1266449375 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x^2 - x = 0 gives x(x - 1) = 0 which gives x = 0 or x = 1 on R, silly AnMaster. < 1266449398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, well yes < 1266449425 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, I was just checking if there was any solutions in C by using the general formula < 1266449432 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course there wasn't < 1266449435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm too sleepy < 1266449446 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :modulo isn't confusing, Z_n is an abelian ring, and abelian rings are nice and simple things. < 1266449472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, only if you are used to them < 1266449474 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah C is an integral domain, you can't have ab = 0 unless a = 0 or b = 0 < 1266449490 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well also you need to know it's a unique factorization domain < 1266449500 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait < 1266449509 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooo you don't < 1266449514 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :silly oklopol < 1266449532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who said anything about ab=0? < 1266449568 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x^2 - x = 0 <=> x(x - 1) = 0 < 1266449617 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in case your pattern matching skills are sleepy too, a = x, b = x - 1 < 1266449618 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Say a * a = a and b * b = b. But a * e = a and b * e = b. Therefore a = b. < 1266449645 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, is that complete bullshit? Hm. < 1266449651 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1266449656 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your therefore isn't really based on anything < 1266449666 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or it's based on division < 1266449678 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh umm < 1266449734 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :b * b = b, b * e = b, therefore e = b. a * a = a, a * e = a, therefore e = a. Therefore a = b. < 1266449740 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i don't see where you get an equality < 1266449756 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :b * b = b, b * e = b, therefore e = b <<< why? < 1266449762 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Substitution? < 1266449777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : in case your pattern matching skills are sleepy too, a = x, b = x - 1 <-- yeah thanks < 1266449782 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can substitute e for b and b for e, therefore e = b, no? < 1266449816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, any solutions that are quaternions? If not, what would be needed to get a polynomial with quaternionious solutions? < 1266449818 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can substitute e for b and b for e if they are then multiplied from the left by b, yes. < 1266449829 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1266449843 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no. there are just those two solutions, because also quaternions are an integral domain (i should hope) < 1266449849 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, just add the mirror-image to get multiplied from the right. e is both left and right identity. < 1266449851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, well yes, for that given one < 1266449862 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's a mirror image? < 1266449864 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a^-1? < 1266449865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, but what sort of polynomial would give a quaternion as a solution? < 1266449881 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, well a polynomial in H would! < 1266449887 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: b * b = b, e * b = b, therefore e = b < 1266449894 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example x - q = 0 (with q in H) < 1266449899 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: my guess is you're confusing rings and fields < 1266449907 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy, oh good point < 1266449916 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: what axiom from field theory am I using? < 1266449921 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another thing is, since C is a subset of H < 1266449930 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then any polynomial with roots in C has roots in H < 1266449939 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean you're basically getting b*b = e*b ==> b = e, right? < 1266449957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy, well, I meant ones that doesn't fit into "simpler" "subsets" < 1266449970 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Yes, I believe I stated that < 1266449975 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if b has a right inverse, then that's true < 1266449978 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what if it doesn't? < 1266449991 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, I wonder if H is algebraically closed (like C is) < 1266450058 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean by your logic b*0 = 0, e*0 = 0 => b = e < 1266450065 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can substitute them for each other < 1266450087 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1266450125 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: b*0 = 0, e*0 = 0 => b = e = 0 < 1266450131 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :substitute all occurrences of b < 1266450139 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure about that? < 1266450141 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1266450150 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're basically saying all rings only have the one element 0 < 1266450155 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'm not sure that's true < 1266450172 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a*0 = 0 for all a < 1266450173 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: No, I'm not saying that. < 1266450197 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so take any two elements a and b, and you'll have a*0 = 0, b*0 = 0 => a=b=0 < 1266450201 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:40 < oklopol> i mean by your logic b*0 = 0, e*0 = 0 => b = e < 1266450202 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1266450223 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice misinterpretation of x and y are equal if P(x) <=> P(y) ==> x = y < 1266450237 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has to be true for ALL P, not just one P < 1266450253 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1266450265 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure that's what's being misinterpreted < 1266450276 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think he's just confusing rings and fields < 1266450283 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh don't get algebraic about this < 1266450288 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for goodness sake < 1266450290 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1266450339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy, no idea < 1266450415 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still not sure what field axiom I'm relying on. If x * x = x then x has a right inverse (it's x.) < 1266450423 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: anyway in Z_6, 4*4 = 16 = 4, so 4 is an idempotent element < 1266450468 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just want to know if you're really not seeing you're doing a division there < 1266450476 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1266450487 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if x*x = x, then x has a right inverse, huh? < 1266450497 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be x*x = 1 < 1266450599 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I may well be wrong. < 1266450605 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: i can't say what field axiom you're relying on, because i just see a gap in logic. all i can say is that from the existence of inverses, e=b follows trivially from eb = bb < 1266450609 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't see how I'm doing division. < 1266450632 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's because you just have a gap in logic, you take what you have, and you say "therefore b=e". < 1266450651 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you agree that eb = bb -> e = b? < 1266450668 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course not, i just showed you a counterexample < 1266450681 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then what was your "all i can say" statement about? < 1266450712 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that i don't know what field axioms you're relying on. because you aren't relying on anything. < 1266450740 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it sounded like you just said, "All I can say is that from the existence of inverses, eb = bb implies e = b" -- is that not what you meant? < 1266450758 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, *if we had inverses*, then that'd trivially be true < 1266450769 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so given that we don't, why is it true? < 1266450853 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would you agree it would be true if we knew b had an inverse (regardless of any other element having one)? < 1266450860 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1266450876 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we could then multiply by that inverse. < 1266450968 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I wish I could show it had an inverse, then. < 1266450997 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah good luck showing there are no rings that aren't fields. < 1266451031 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not saying EVERY element in the ring has to have an inverse. < 1266451031 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Z_4) < 1266451048 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's where your angle is confusing me. < 1266451054 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well right, the idempotent element does < 1266451094 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1266451102 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't believe in Z_6, then hmm... if you know linear algebra, you'll probably know a matrix can be idempotent without being identity? < 1266451107 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What claim of mine are you trying to refute, anyway? < 1266451118 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you can't have idempotent elements < 1266451121 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it the thing about Potro on my LoUIE page? < 1266451126 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1266451135 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm trying to refure a*b = a isn't possible < 1266451163 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if a*a = a is possible (and it is), then a*b = a is possible, so doesn't matter < 1266451187 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah potro < 1266451191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night → < 1266451196 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night