: "((pi symbol))" Uxxxx # UNICODE NAME < 1263144349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, wait, altgr- is ±, altgr+shift+ is ¬ < 1263144357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :U03C0 # GREEK SMALL LETTER PI < 1263144366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :π < 1263144367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So < 1263144370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and \ is altgr-+ so ¿ for shift-altgr-+ < 1263144383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :

: "Ď€" U03C0 # GREEK SMALL LETTER PI < 1263144387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just append to your Compose file. < 1263144388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're welcome. < 1263144396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, Now to locate the compose file < 1263144407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"locate Compose" < 1263144409 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Create ~/.XCompose < 1263144413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/share/X11/locale/(locale)/Compose < 1263144416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or what BeholdMyGlory said. < 1263144418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1263144431 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/share/X11/locale/compose.dir < 1263144431 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/compose < 1263144433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION assigns the Windows keys to Compose.
< 1263144434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are the closest one < 1263144440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BeholdMyGlory: Does that overwrite the global file or append? < 1263144446 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean you can create a compose shortcut for a Unicode snowman? < 1263144448 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :none matches exactly what ehird suggested < 1263144453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: EXCELLENT IDEA < 1263144460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww, sm is taken: â„  < 1263144462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION agrees with ehird on this
< 1263144464 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I don't know, I copied the global file to ~/.XCompose < 1263144478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BeholdMyGlory: is there any command to activate it or do I have to restart X? < 1263144489 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No idea :P < 1263144496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Perhaps sy, as in unicode Snowman for You. < 1263144502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or us, for Unicode Snowman. < 1263144518 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, the Ubuntu wiki recommends using the SAK for restarting X nowadays < 1263144527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, DejaVu's snowman is brilliant < 1263144527 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can't hit it by mistake using accessibility shortcuts < 1263144528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://unicodesnowmanforyou.com/ < 1263144537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's wearing a top hat, smiling, standing on a slope, and has snow around him < 1263144539 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, it's bigger than I remember it < 1263144546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SAK? < 1263144553 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alt-(sysrq+k) < 1263144554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ostrange < 1263144556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange* < 1263144565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my locale is not in /usr/share/X11/locale/ < 1263144591 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be sv_SE.UTF-8 < 1263144618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh the mapping file < 1263144620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :en_US.UTF-8/Compose sv_SE.UTF-8 < 1263144644 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sv_SE = Swedish Swedish? < 1263144653 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, as opposed to sv_FI < 1263144665 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just amused that it's a different abbreviation at each side < 1263144679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I think SE is country code < 1263144687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sv is language code or suc < 1263144688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such* < 1263144702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what the name of the Unicode Snowman is. < 1263144708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need its name to add the Compose comment. :( < 1263144725 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: 'SNOWMAN' < 1263144754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently include "%L" does something in .Xcompose. < 1263144760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet L=locale=include locale's compose. < 1263144766 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is there a snowman in Unicode anyway, by the way? < 1263144766 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does one reload the compose file < 1263144770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Why not? < 1263144774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Restart X, I guess < 1263144780 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: most things in Unicode are put there for a reason, I think < 1263144781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, man page says it means "your locale" < 1263144784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%L that is < 1263144789 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not like Unicode magically gathers characters without people agreeing on them < 1263144792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Perhaps a legacy character set < 1263144793 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so someone must have put it ther < 1263144795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"and %L expands to the name of the locale specific Compose file (i.e., "/usr/share/X11/locale//Com� < 1263144795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : pose"). < 1263144795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : For example, you can include in your compose file the default Compose file by using: < 1263144795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : include "%L"" < 1263144795 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*there < 1263144800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh the formatting < 1263144800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Which man page? < 1263144806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, man Compose < 1263144807 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: man 5 Compose < 1263144815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hah, beat you < 1263144819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have it. < 1263144823 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do wonder, though, what it means by that < 1263144824 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, install it < 1263144824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: some Ubuntu package? < 1263144834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: That otherwrise it overwrites the locale's compose file. < 1263144836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, find it with apt-file < 1263144838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*otherwise < 1263144839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, very useful tool < 1263144844 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: either that's a really stupid comment, or I misunderstood the context of your sentence < 1263144846 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect the second < 1263144849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it allows you to search on files from not installed packages < 1263144853 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I mean, /usr/share/X11/locale contains no compose file for any of my locales < 1263144861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Does for me. < 1263144867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ? < 1263144871 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Well, what's your locale < 1263144875 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, compose.dir < 1263144875 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C? :-P < 1263144878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it has a mapping < 1263144885 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: as in, an Ubuntu package wouldn't have put stuff in Unicode < 1263144888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Dunno, either US or brit I guess < 1263144891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see what I said about sv_SE -> en_US compose mapping above < 1263144893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I meant X11 manpages < 1263144894 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Ah, indeed. < 1263144900 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which locale value does it use, though? < 1263144904 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LANG? Something else? < 1263144908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, no clue < 1263144948 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I can find them in Japanese, but not English < 1263144952 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine the US and UK Compose files are much the same. < 1263144959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm just going to use apt-file < 1263144985 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I suppose it won't be LC_NUMERIC, LC_TIME, LC_MONETARY, LC_PAPER, LC_ADDRESS, LC_TELEPHONE, or LC_MEASUREMENT < 1263144991 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's crazy, why is there "xmanpages-ja - Japanese manual pages for X" but no "xmanpages"? < 1263144993 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1263144998 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I can fairly safely change my .XCompose to use %L < 1263145005 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or anything else starting "xmanpages"? < 1263145013 0 :EgoBot!n=EgoBot@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1263145023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, use apt-file < 1263145037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird@meson:~$ sudo apt-file update < 1263145038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Downloading complete file http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/karmic/Contents-i386.gz < 1263145039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yawn. < 1263145044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it takes a bit yes < 1263145069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ apt-file find /usr/share/man/man5/Compose.5.gz <-- no results. Maybe elsewhere on ubuntu? < 1263145096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it just doesn't exist. < 1263145113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, s/find/search/; use proper APT terminology, dammit. < 1263145123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it is find for apt-file < 1263145128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's either. < 1263145129 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well both < 1263145133 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1263145134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anything wrong with find < 1263145139 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : search|find Search files in packages < 1263145149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, find is shorter to type < 1263145151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :APT uses search, apt-file says "Search" as the verb and lists search first. You are a bad person :P < 1263145154 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1263145171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Does the man page say anything about how to load .XCompose without restarting X? < 1263145204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, alias qfile="apt-file find" alias qlist="dpkg -L" alias emerge="apt-get" ;P < 1263145210 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There, now all my bots keep logs, so maybe I'll actually know WHY they quit :P < 1263145216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no I don't use that, but the gentoo commands are shorter) < 1263145218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compose doesn't have FOR ALL by default? Hmph < 1263145232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, give me the line for it < 1263145233 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Not that I can see < 1263145240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has ≥ and ≤, though. < 1263145246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Give me the line for what? < 1263145256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, it doesn't even have -> < 1263145260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's bull fucking shit < 1263145264 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: It does say something about cache directories, though, and "see also - mkcomposecache(1)" < 1263145267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, when you create the "for all" and "there exists" lines, give them to me < 1263145275 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, → is on altgr-i < 1263145276 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neither the directories mentioned nor that command exist here, though. < 1263145279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no need to use compose for it < 1263145280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1263145286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck altgr < 1263145291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compose is a far superior interface < 1263145293 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you don't have altgr? < 1263145301 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have it, but I do not use it. < 1263145304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compose is a superior interface. < 1263145311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alt Gr is just Alt here. < 1263145312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it is faster to use altgr than compose though < 1263145315 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :couldn't you make altgr a compose key, leaving the windows-logo key for super? < 1263145318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it is not. < 1263145321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fewer key presses < 1263145325 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: My compose has -> → < 1263145335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time(3k) - Time(2k) = Omega < 1263145341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, mine has -> to → < 1263145342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well < 1263145350 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :→ < 1263145353 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is altgr-i for me < 1263145355 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :---> -> → < 1263145362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(k = keypress) < 1263145364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and does it work with compose? < 1263145374 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-x 8 is all the compose I need < 1263145394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you press altgr and i at about the same time. Not so for compose and then two separate keys < 1263145402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do Compose+x y. < 1263145405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, compare shift-A and "shift, release, a" < 1263145426 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm true, but do you have to release x there? < 1263145428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And in fact, doing key combinations is not very ergonomic anyway. < 1263145435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Nope. < 1263145447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, yes. < 1263145449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But who cares. < 1263145451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you do for -> at least < 1263145454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can type it just as fast, so I don't care. < 1263145495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders how to express <>> in compose format
< 1263145505 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, did you try pkgfile on mkcomposecache? < 1263145548 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's pkgfile? < 1263145553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poop ≠ dung < 1263145553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does man Compose on ubuntu open run-mailcap(1) < 1263145560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes no sense whatsoever < 1263145572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, like apt-file for arch < 1263145575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, iirc you ran arch? < 1263145587 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, pkgfile is in pkgtools package iirc < 1263145593 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what apt-file is either, but I suppose I can guess :-P < 1263145611 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evidently yes, in pkgtools < 1263145625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it's useful to find what package provides a given file. Also it installs a cronjob to update the db < 1263145630 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1263145657 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it claims to have done so < 1263145673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ pkgfile /usr/bin/pkgfile < 1263145673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :community/pkgtools < 1263145692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, unlike apt-file, pkgfile is fairly slow. 5-10 seconds on my sempron system < 1263145700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with next to no disk activity < 1263145713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I suspect very inefficient searching < 1263145756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still useful though < 1263145763 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing for mkcomposecache < 1263145774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb, restarting x < 1263145780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what's that command to restart x again? < 1263145782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sysrq+k? < 1263145789 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alt-sysrq+k < 1263145804 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1263145844 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.104.236.31 JOIN :#esoteric < 1263145853 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb < 1263145860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :π < 1263145862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :� < 1263145864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :→ < 1263145866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :� < 1263145871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am happy now. < 1263145871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you can enable that ctrl-alt-backspace again. In gnome go to keyboard settings -> layouts -> layout options. I suspect something similar is possible in KDE < 1263145879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, Kopete just notified me about every single online person after connecting. < 1263145882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is an xkb option thingy < 1263145883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was... interesting. < 1263145887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't want to, though. < 1263145890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alt+Sysrq+K is just fine. < 1263145892 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what, everyone online in the entire world? < 1263145892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah okay < 1263145897 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Har har. < 1263145910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :π + 3 ≠ 6 < 1263145923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I interpreted it like ais..., but realised that was stupid, thus didn't say anything < 1263145932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ♥ Unicode
< 1263145935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an guessed it must be "friends" or something like that < 1263145942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ♥s Unicode, even
< 1263145946 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, where do you have µ < 1263145946 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: People on my contact list, obviously. < 1263145955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kopete being an instant messenger (sp?). < 1263145961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :µ. < 1263145961 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, people actually use contact lists? < 1263145963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compose m u. < 1263145969 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how else are you meant to use IM? < 1263145971 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just memorise the email addresses, or where to look them up < 1263145973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah, see. I don't jump to insane conclusions. Unlike ais523 < 1263145977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1263145990 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :likewise for IM, although I don't use it much if at all < 1263145995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, in your mail client? you don't use any address book? < 1263145999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1263146000 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no < 1263146004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wth < 1263146006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just use Gmail's email autocomplete < 1263146008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But for IM < 1263146008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, paranoia? < 1263146009 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from my sent and received folders < 1263146014 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, just too much effort < 1263146015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ignoring the idiocy of remembering a bunch of crappy email addresses vs making one or two clicks to talk to someone, < 1263146020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't even tell me whether they're online or not. < 1263146033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how does gmail's auto complete work. Previous people you sent to? < 1263146036 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: why does it matter if they're online? < 1263146038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Or sent to you. < 1263146043 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so it is like auto collecting an address book < 1263146044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Because if they're not online, I can't talk to them. < 1263146048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Exactly. < 1263146052 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean you don't agree to talk to them in advance?> < 1263146056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, which my mail client does too < 1263146065 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: How would I do that? By IMing them? < 1263146070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hey, can I IM you?" "Sure." < 1263146072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hi." < 1263146089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't say "go up to them in person", I'm not about to go on a train or a plane every time I want to talk to someone. < 1263146111 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: how do you find out how they are in the first place? < 1263146118 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all I can think of is Usenet or IRC < 1263146153 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, for me, the auto collected addresses for incomming are only done from those not marked (or later manually marked) as spam. And are not "bulk" priority (thus filtering mailing lists). And they are placed in a different category < 1263146157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to use forums quite a bit, so a lot of the contact list is degrees-of-separation'd from there. < 1263146161 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it is easy to weed them out should that be required < 1263146170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly I only talk to maybe 10 of the people on my list, but I'm way too lazy to strip it down. < 1263146203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for IM: I don't use it < 1263146204 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: and they actually accept being IMed at random times just because they're online? < 1263146206 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irc and email for me < 1263146211 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds as bad as a mobile phone < 1263146211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forums I avoid when possible < 1263146215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: If they have their IM client online, presumably they're willing to talk. < 1263146221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're being pretty idiotic; purposeful or not? < 1263146226 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: maybe they're trying to talk to someone else? < 1263146238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Most people can hold two separate conversations at once. < 1263146239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how does " ehird: and they actually accept being IMed at random times just because they're online?" differ from IRC? < 1263146244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We do it often in this channel, you know. < 1263146244 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and slightly purposeful, I'm being far more combative than I need to be < 1263146254 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because nothing compels me to actually read IRC < 1263146262 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or to turn highlight on for a channel < 1263146262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Or does it? < 1263146264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think it does. < 1263146269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think this compels you to read IRC. < 1263146273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: In exactly the same way as IM. < 1263146275 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I have unhighlighted a channel before now < 1263146280 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, not this one < 1263146296 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what I meant for talking to someone else is < 1263146303 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to talk to person A, you have to set the IM client to online < 1263146314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do? < 1263146317 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if you aren't open to person B talking to you < 1263146325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look, most people don't mind their friends striking up a conversation with them. < 1263146329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, can't you set it to busy? < 1263146329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you mind it, that's your problem. < 1263146341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, most people *like* it when their friends talk to them. < 1263146345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, online but preocupied < 1263146347 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I don't see how most people ever get anything done, then < 1263146366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Did you know that ~15 minute breaks every now and then actually make you more productive? < 1263146369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what AnMaster said. < 1263146372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Put it on busy or offline. < 1263146373 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes < 1263146382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, there is one difference to irc though. Well... to IRC channels. IRC /msg to a single person is more similar < 1263146384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that is < 1263146386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If someone messages you, say "working, sorry". < 1263146389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Simple. < 1263146391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is easier to just say "brb" or such < 1263146400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ignore the channel for a few hours < 1263146407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well "bbl" in that case I guess) < 1263146409 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, so it's an Internet version of mobile phones, effectively < 1263146413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you need to do something else < 1263146420 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, now imagine IM on phones < 1263146423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mobile phones don't have a busy status. < 1263146424 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably explains a lot, I don't really understand why people use mobiles either < 1263146428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "Imagine"? I have that. < 1263146439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well but ais523 is stuck in old tech... < 1263146443 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I *know* it exists < 1263146452 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I am actually angry at people using mobiles, because of the passive effects on the rest of us) < 1263146452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just wasn't sure ais523 did < 1263146458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...? < 1263146467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I think ais523's internal model of social interaction is very, very different to the rest of us < 1263146475 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in particular, the general collapse of payphones, and people getting phoned at inconvenient moments while they're meant to be having meetings with you) < 1263146475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He seems to view starting a conversation with someone as rude < 1263146479 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I do < 1263146488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Issues, I think is the word here. < 1263146494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Issues. < 1263146506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hey, I thought you considered my model of social interaction as different? < 1263146519 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone probably has a different model of social interaction < 1263146525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Do you view starting a conversation as rude? < 1263146544 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this argument is stupid < 1263146558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not unless it is a random idiot asking for "how do I get program y to work on vista?", for a program I'm just in the channel in < 1263146561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Then you're not that crazy. < 1263146564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do get that type of /msg once in a while < 1263146569 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such a view is a very Finnish attitude to have, actually. < 1263146572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are generally very irritating < 1263146576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, which view? < 1263146590 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, was that self-referential? < 1263146590 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Viewing starting a conversation as rude. < 1263146597 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: heh < 1263146597 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1263146608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, that was the only way I could read it though < 1263146644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This channel is now: The official poop channel 2010 < 1263146651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1263146660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All non-poop-related discussion is banned, although esolang discussion will be ignored by the powers that be. < 1263146680 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1263146681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1263146703 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: err, arbitrarily changing the topic of a channel tends not to work if you aren't the founder, or at least an op < 1263146718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, tell me if you find a way to reload compose without restarting X < 1263146728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise I'm going to delay testing pi < 1263146730 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should know, most of my attempts to change it to being about esolangs fail < 1263146730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Stop being a pussy and press the keycombo. < 1263146740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or the � will be sad. < 1263146744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1263146753 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what? ctrl-alt-backspace you mean? < 1263146759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1263146768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well no thanks, I have some long running stuff I don't want to abort < 1263146773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graphical ones < 1263146774 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I've kept this X session running for about 3 days now < 1263146783 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a bit annoying, though, because hibernate takes longer than shutting down < 1263146794 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and weirdly, also corrupts the icon cache < 1263146800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm. I usually keep X running for weeks < 1263146805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what? < 1263146815 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the icons that show up when you press alt-tab < 1263146822 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some reason, on this computer hibernation corrupts them < 1263146825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was pleasently surprised last night when suspend to RAM worked perfectly and quickly. < 1263146827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, they are cached? < 1263146828 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but has no visible other problems < 1263146831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Resume took a bit longer than OS X, but it was nice. < 1263146843 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I assume so, otherwise htf could they change whilst leaving everything else the same? < 1263146845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also if that happened, I wouldn't trust hibernation, who knows what else it may corrupt < 1263146857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, does restarting the program fix the icon? < 1263146860 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes < 1263146864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you used "htf"? < 1263146868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU? < 1263146872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION blinks
< 1263146882 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, I don't see how it can be a swear word if it's that abbreviated < 1263146900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how very.... aisish < 1263146912 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a meaning of its own < 1263146914 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like "lol" < 1263146920 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is nowadays unusable for its original meaning < 1263146958 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no it isn't. I tend to use "haha" when I actually doesn't laugh out loud. And "lol" only if I do that. which is rare < 1263146978 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you're out of touch with modern usage, then < 1263147004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, correction: I rebel against the modern usage < 1263147005 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also, usage differs by channel; for instance in pokemon IRC channels, it normally means "heh, someone sent out something laughably weak", or a similar build) < 1263147008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, calling someone out of touch < 1263147009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :classic < 1263147018 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: depends on what I'm calling them out of touch /with/ < 1263147023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I was considering saying that. Then realised I was too < 1263147039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I did not quite want you to have that much fun < 1263147051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[18:08] ais523, no it isn't. I tend to use "haha" when I actually doesn't laugh out loud. And "lol" only if I do that. which is rare < 1263147064 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, there's a grammar mistake there < 1263147065 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, because it's not as if "haha" is an onomatapeeyuh (too lazy to spell) for out-loud laughter or anything. < 1263147069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, don't* < 1263147069 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I only noticed the second time round < 1263147075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're so rebellacious and prescriptivist. < 1263147076 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the one I meant? < 1263147078 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's wrong with me? < 1263147079 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes < 1263147086 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I think I wrote it as /me first then changed my mind < 1263147121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I never said I was consistent. < 1263147135 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another IRC spec issue: technically, aren't people breaking the spec by replying to /me with a non-CTCP privmsg rather than a CTCP-ACTION reply? < 1263147147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, NCTCP you mean < 1263147152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1263147157 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that there's anything wrong with that, I'm just amused at how far actual IRC usage differs from the spec < 1263147165 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "CTCP-ACTION reply" < 1263147172 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CTCP replies are notices < 1263147175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: *I don't actually laugh out loud < 1263147179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, had to fix it < 1263147185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, see above < 1263147187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fixed it < 1263147189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Sorry, had to fix it, even. < 1263147194 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sometimes laugh out loud, and then it's really hard to express what I'm actually doing < 1263147200 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CTCP is a separate spec < 1263147205 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because "lol" is already taken, and typing it out is a pain < 1263147205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"when I actually don't laugh out loud" is not valid. < 1263147207 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: ok, point taken < 1263147209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, not sure about action. Since it is rather different from the other ctcp < 1263147210 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is followed a lot less than the regular spec < 1263147212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ctcps* < 1263147220 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes it is < 1263147221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, for VERSION and such sure < 1263147225 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though the current iteration of IRC isn't exactly well-implemented either < 1263147233 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the worst, though, is colors < 1263147237 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no one implements CTCP colors < 1263147240 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, ctcps sounds like some sort of secure ctcp < 1263147242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mIRC does. < 1263147245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, ctcp colours? < 1263147246 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: they exist? < 1263147246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As does ChatZilla. < 1263147248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the heck is that < 1263147248 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As does X-Chat. < 1263147253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everyone implements IRC colours. < 1263147254 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I thought mIRC sent special character codes < 1263147258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1263147259 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than doing a CTCP for them < 1263147262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay then. < 1263147264 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, everyone implements mIRC colors < 1263147266 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not CTCP ones < 1263147274 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what are ctcp colours < 1263147281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is* < 1263147291 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure, but I think they might be based on literal control-Cs < 1263147297 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like CTCP's based on literal control-As < 1263147302 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.invlogic.com/irc/ctcp.html#3.6 < 1263147337 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mIRC uses ^C < 1263147340 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess is that the reason nobody implements that is that nobody implements CTCPs inline in normal messages < 1263147345 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but CTCP uses ^FCA < 1263147350 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is strange < 1263147364 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same with other formats < 1263147370 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bold, for instance, is usually just ^B < 1263147373 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not ^FB < 1263147444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, what is the format of ? < 1263147455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey that spec is spelled properly < 1263147457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1263147457 0 :lieuwe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost done writing an overcomplicated bf->python converter... < 1263147466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*spelt < 1263147473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, indeed < 1263147475 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to work that out < 1263147476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lieuwe: Is it over 20 lines? < 1263147479 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, so it is < 1263147481 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1263147481 0 :lieuwe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes < 1263147485 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Ot0-F, an index into the usual-ish 16-colour palette. < 1263147487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lieuwe: Rewrite it. < 1263147492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, ? < 1263147492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1263147494 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/Ot/It's a hex digit in / < 1263147500 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either IX, where X is a hex digit < 1263147508 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or an #XXXXXX code < 1263147508 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that's a pretty crazy typo < 1263147513 0 :lieuwe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it contains a tokenizer and a grammar analyzer, but the point is that you can write different langs for it... < 1263147528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ṕóóṕ < 1263147537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, is that for ctcp colour or mirc? < 1263147542 0 :lieuwe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you could write a anything->anything converter for it... < 1263147553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it supports full also < 1263147555 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rigt < 1263147556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right* < 1263147558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An anything->anything converter enabler? < 1263147564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean a language in which you can write compilers? < 1263147565 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Underlambda! < 1263147579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, over 20 lines is okay for optimising < 1263147580 0 :lieuwe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: pretty much, < 1263147580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Is Underlambda implemented yet? < 1263147584 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wants to write everything->underlambda and underlambda->everything
< 1263147584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with enough optimising I mean < 1263147585 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: partially < 1263147590 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the spec isn't pinned down yet < 1263147606 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and derla, especially, is rather light on implemented commands < 1263147611 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Right. The spec was a bit strange, since the part immediately before the color table says "Each colour will be an index, selected from the following table", but it indeed is either IX and #rrggbb. < 1263147618 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :next jobs are probably pinning down I/O, and string handling < 1263147637 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and where is the table? < 1263147664 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: In the spec coppro linked to. < 1263147664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh there < 1263147669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not near the colour command at all < 1263147688 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1263147704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh that is I < 1263147707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, as defined above < 1263147741 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, I know. That's why the text immediately above the table is a bit misleading. < 1263147756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also everything->underlambda seems very ambitious. ;P < 1263147765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, for a single compiler at least < 1263147767 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: maybe not directly < 1263147774 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it would be loads of separate compilers < 1263147792 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe interp-bundling ones, I don't really care about efficiency for that bit < 1263147821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, write a generic framework for esolang compiling. Oh wait, that won't work. There will be lots of esolangs that won't fit in such a framework, almost by definition < 1263147858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also, does underlambda support self modification? < 1263147872 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not directly, in that the syntax is always the same < 1263147886 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do some pretty heavy command redefinition with the preprocessor, but not at runtime < 1263147893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I meant as in "befunge98 -> underlambda" < 1263147896 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: In any case CTCP's one messy spec. That particular document says it's an Internet Draft, valid for a maximum of six months; and it's from February 1997. The "original" spec from 1994 -- http://www.irchelp.org/irchelp/rfc/ctcpspec.html -- doesn't specify the text formatting codes at all. < 1263147908 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's perfectly fine, you just bundle a befunge interp written in underlambda < 1263147915 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well give up on "everything" then. For compilers. Interpreters would work < 1263147923 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that is a compiler, technically < 1263147924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well true, but that hardly counts as compiling really < 1263147933 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the reason to do it like that is so that compilations can be chained < 1263147939 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can, say, compile Unlambda to Thue < 1263147967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, technically yes. But it isn't really in the spirit of compilation. < 1263147980 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is in the spirit of cross-implementing all esolangs, though < 1263147985 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is what Underlambda is for < 1263148014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, not in the spirit, rather "in the interest" would be better there < 1263148020 0 :lieuwe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i might have the most over-complicated hello world program in python here, 148 lines O.o < 1263148024 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: spirit too < 1263148032 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lieuwe: you should see my hello world in brainfuck < 1263148036 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's several megabytes long < 1263148042 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly stdlib overhead < 1263148056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lieuwe, because it was generated by his C->BF gcc backend < 1263148095 0 :lieuwe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: O.o, my hellow world was compiled from bf to python, imagine how long that one would be :-O < 1263148104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also, what about banana-scheme->unlambda? < 1263148122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and unlambda→ < 1263148142 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: only cross-implementing TC langs < 1263148149 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and maybe sub-TC -> underlambda < 1263148153 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlambda itself is a pain to compile out of < 1263148159 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you'd want to go via underlambda < 1263148161 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and underlambda->super-tc? < 1263148173 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: possibly, but it's so hard to test that I might not bother < 1263148185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh? you said you wanted underlambda should be used for cross implementing? < 1263148195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it is a pain to compile out of, then what is the point < 1263148211 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are muddling Unlambda and Underlambda < 1263148215 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unlambda = pain to compile out of < 1263148222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also can you really implement befunge98 with all fingerprints required for fungot to run in underlambda < 1263148223 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ee ' /ignore foo all' maybe then. dunno, your fnord < 1263148226 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Underlambda = easy to interpret out of, and moderately difficult to compile out of < 1263148227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, typo then < 1263148240 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: as I said, I/O isn't decided yet < 1263148248 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but nothing else should be problematic, given TCness and all < 1263148256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, sure it would. Since it uses SOCK < 1263148259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for socket IO < 1263148272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you thought fungot used netcat or something? < 1263148273 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: are there any builtin plain string matching functions? i'm just using the windows standalone < 1263148311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psox < 1263148322 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what's making you think that socket I/O isn't I/O? < 1263148322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all you need is stdio + special semantics for io < 1263148324 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get your reasoning here < 1263148332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Sockets are MAGIC, dude! < 1263148339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, they are different from file IO < 1263148350 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on unix it isn't just opening a file < 1263148368 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1263148370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I am the publisher of a now defunct and formerly popular avant-garde lifestyle magazine from the 70s and 80s. A magazine design enthusiast is now beginning to scan and post full copies of every issue of the magazine. Can anyone offer legal advice or a course of action to pursue (or provide me with a precedent that I can use against this guy)?" < 1263148372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, plus, SOCK supports listening to incomming connections to. Which means bind() accept() and such < 1263148377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the part where he admits it's causing no damage whatsoever to him < 1263148381 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it is still, nevertheless, I/O < 1263148401 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1263148404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well true < 1263148414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blah = cat /dev/foop < 1263148419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blah == /dev/foop3 or w/e < 1263148421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tada, listening < 1263148423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1263148437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how do you mean. < 1263148481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"accept incoming connection on port 5432 and return the handle for it" < 1263148497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders where the wastebasket is in kde 4
< 1263148516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: < 1263148520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :open file /dev/listen < 1263148527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :write "5432" < 1263148531 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x = read < 1263148535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :print x --> /dev/foop < 1263148538 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :open file x < 1263148540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y = read < 1263148546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :print y --> /dev/foop47 < 1263148549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :open file y < 1263148552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...use y as socket... < 1263148736 0 :lieuwe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after i've implemented bf what should i implement next? < 1263148761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Underload! < 1263148777 0 :ais523!n=ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1263148780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :π³ ≠ 27. Hooray for Compose. < 1263148784 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :re-implement CLC-INTERCAL? < 1263148786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I thought you were working. < 1263148788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: ouch < 1263148789 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am < 1263148794 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I like keeping an eye on a channel < 1263148795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure, but the OS doesn't have it? < 1263148797 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually got something done, though < 1263148808 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to continue working nevertheless, and may have to leave again < 1263148811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, Plan9 does I guess < 1263148813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not linux < 1263148838 0 :lieuwe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: implementing underload... < 1263148845 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, Underload < 1263148853 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lieuwe: compiling or interpreting? < 1263148874 0 :lieuwe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: compiles to python, which is interpreted... < 1263148882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compiling Underload is fun. < 1263148888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I pioneered that < 1263148907 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: your optimised compiler is of a similar speed to derlo on large programs, I find < 1263148928 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and derlo's memory usage is a lot lower when faced with code like :*:*:*:*:*:* < 1263148931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: My compiler didn't optimise < 1263148938 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you used -O3 < 1263148940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it would be "your optimising compiler". < 1263148942 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a form of optimising < 1263148942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1263148949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see. < 1263148955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It was just a proof of concept. < 1263148961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could write a better one if I wanted. < 1263148969 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :derlo's more optimising, I hope to implement optimised integers at some point < 1263148970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody said the strings and the code had to match, after all. < 1263148974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you could do a good bit of optimising there. < 1263148978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr, (set-fringe-style 'left-only) doesn't work < 1263148986 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the fringe? < 1263149010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The little grey border to the left and right. < 1263149014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(X11 only.) < 1263149016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, graphical only. < 1263149044 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, which shows you things like lines wrapping < 1263149076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's ugly at the right because the scrollbar is right next to it for me. < 1263149093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I'd prefer it just be white, instead; having the text run right up against the scrollbar is ugly too. < 1263149119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish I knew how to set faces without using customise. < 1263149121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*customize < 1263149210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr, why can't you drag to rearrange in KDE's taskbar? < 1263149243 0 :lieuwe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1263149247 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, how do you do comments in LaTeX again? < 1263149254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :% Poop < 1263149265 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or % Poop if you want < 1263149266 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I was wondering if it was \comment{} < 1263149266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1263149269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or % Poop if you want < 1263149271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1263149274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or %% Poop if you want < 1263149279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Konversation does %% -> %... < 1263149284 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1263149292 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because % introduces escape codes < 1263149296 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%Atime%A < 1263149302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%Atime%A < 1263149304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it doesn't < 1263149305 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, although you can't do ctcps with it it seems < 1263149310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poop < 1263149310 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%Bbold%B works < 1263149311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poop < 1263149315 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this channel is +c < 1263149316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poop < 1263149321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : poop < 1263149332 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: heh, %I = tab = italics < 1263149336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1263149342 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read it yet ehird < 1263149344 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Konversation treats tab as toggle-italics, which can be annoying) < 1263149348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: Read what? < 1263149352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's the correct interpretation < 1263149352 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that buke < 1263149354 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: If you're talking about GNU Emacs, (set-fringe-style x) takes a cons cell as x, with car as the left fringe size in pixels and cdr as the right. The textual modes ("left-only" and so on) seem to only work if you use it interactively as M-x set-fringe-style. < 1263149356 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :metamorphisi < 1263149359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although some clients use it as invert < 1263149361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: no < 1263149364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, I figured that out. < 1263149365 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo!!! < 1263149367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks anyway. < 1263149372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There should be a way to enable formatting but no colours. < 1263149384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like italics and bold but not red or green. < 1263149460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The simplest Emacs Lisp function ever written: < 1263149463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(defun run-frink () < 1263149465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (interactive) < 1263149465 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: do you care enough to write a patch? < 1263149466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (comint-run "frink")) < 1263149476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: What, to the ircd? < 1263149482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean for +c and the like. < 1263149483 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you mean in a channel? < 1263149489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There should be +½c. < 1263149493 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you meant to Konversation, to display only the colours you liked < 1263149497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Naw. < 1263149502 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could allow, say, soothing lilac but not clashing orange < 1263149520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you should join #amend. :| < 1263149528 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not while I'm busy < 1263149536 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid Research Skills course, it's the PhD version of PSE < 1263149538 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, there's less talk in there than in here. :P < 1263149548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: lol < 1263149565 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1263149579 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for people outside the UK who don't know: PSE (sometimes PSHE) is a relatively useless subject (Personal Skills [and Health] education) that's mandatory in UK schools) < 1263149603 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and is generally considered a waste of time; the syllabus theoretically includes potentially interesting areas, but the lessons never cover them) < 1263149608 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't speak Arabic. - لا أت�لم العربية - l� atakallamu al-ʿarabīyah < 1263149608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I swear skills is a backronym from sex. < 1263149625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No hablas Inglais or something. < 1263149628 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird I voted alter why is it not called alter? < 1263149641 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it mostly/entirely isn't even sex education < 1263149641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: turns out polls take more than one sample :D < 1263149642 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you know < 1263149657 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what was the final result? < 1263149663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You can't prove that they didn't create it just to avoid having a lesson named sex education. :P < 1263149668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3:3:1 < 1263149686 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :polls are wrong < 1263149687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(�rjan picked Other, but refused to specify.) < 1263149691 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in primary school, before we had sex classes we got sealed brown envelopes to give to our parents < 1263149692 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: We have (in theory) this mandatory "introduction to postgraduate studies" course, which should be in the spring period... but the "course portal" website only speaks of the 2009 iteration, the actual course-enrollment-system doesn't find *anything* with the course code, and the preliminary schedules published before Christmas also have it completely missing. < 1263149694 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :literacy! numeracy! computer-literacy! < 1263149703 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and three others which nobody ever remembers! < 1263149705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: Well, since it was a draw I just picked the one I liked best. < 1263149711 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the classroom rumour was "oh i heard of this! this is PSE and it means personal sex education" < 1263149716 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reading, riting, rithmetic, rogramming < 1263149717 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :half true < 1263149738 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, working with others, improving own learning and performance, and problem solvings < 1263149744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reeling and writhing, etc. < 1263149752 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*problem solving < 1263149755 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Values < 1263149759 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we had a class on Values < 1263149786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a capital V < 1263149786 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the four R's < 1263149791 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the four Rs* < 1263149794 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of our PSE lessons were just incomprehensible < 1263149807 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was one about a moon mission with a list of phrases to put into order < 1263149812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1263149815 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to do with prioritisation, or something < 1263149822 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, about half were spent teaching us how to fill out UCAS forms < 1263149823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you sure it wasn't the LSD lesson? < 1263149834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, or the TPS lesson. < 1263149838 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I suppose is really relevant to the school's results < 1263149842 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's important to them < 1263149862 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there were also a couple with an automated careers thing < 1263149873 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you answered an 100-question questionnaire and it tried to guess which job you'd end up in < 1263149893 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it was all that reliable < 1263149900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did it say for you? < 1263149915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also isn't that terribly demoralising < 1263149920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I want to be an astronaut!" "You will be a bin man" < 1263149925 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1263149932 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: computer games programmer, I think < 1263149932 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marxchat < 1263149933 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A bin man must be something related to binary. < 1263149937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Close enough. < 1263149946 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes, that was one of the closer ones < 1263149953 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the questions were things like < 1263149958 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember someone else in my class was told that they should become a croupier < 1263149961 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"i like being ordered around to kill people" < 1263149966 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and my form teacher was supposed to be a gardnere < 1263149969 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*gardener < 1263149970 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"i like doing scientific experiments" < 1263149986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I like being ordered around to kill people as part of scientific experiments" < 1263149992 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we didn't get anything as firm as one thing, just a list of like 30 or so things < 1263149997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, still "working"? < 1263149999 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1263150009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, nice multitasking :) < 1263150057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay Frink accepts π as pi < 1263150079 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is Frink? < 1263150086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://futureboy.us/frinkdocs/ < 1263150087 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why are you going on about it so much? < 1263150095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just setting it up in Linux. < 1263150105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And tested that Compose worked with it. < 1263150114 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :frink seems way cool < 1263150122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it totally is. :| < 1263150222 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DSL designed for physical calculations? < 1263150258 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, with hints of Mathematicaitis about it < 1263150265 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, I suppose that sells to its target market < 1263150282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not even remotely Mathematica-like. < 1263150293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's symbolic, yes, and it uses [] for function application because f(x) is f*x. < 1263150295 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it made me think of mathematica < 1263150296 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm the sort of person who wonders why it should come with a historical exchange rate database rather than, say, having it as a library on a CPAN-alike) < 1263150300 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fwiw I don't program in either langauge < 1263150309 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's what I mean by Mathematicaitis in this case) < 1263150317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Because it's a calculator, not a batch programming language. < 1263150328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does have non-core libraries, anyway: http://futureboy.us/fsp/frinklibs.fsp < 1263150335 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, it feels wrong not having that data be separate < 1263150349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only if you think about it as a batch programming language. < 1263150390 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even as an interactive language < 1263150437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, it's not just useful for physical calculations: it's also good for abstract calculations, regexp processing, screen scraping, translation, generating graphics, making simple web pages that can do calculations, and also calling out to Java if you like that kind of thing. < 1263150454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: see, when you say "historical exchange rates should be in a library", I see that as < 1263150459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"regexp processing should be in a library in Perl" < 1263150468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't, because it's far more convenient and quick to access this way < 1263150474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the intended use < 1263150495 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, you could even set it to load by default < 1263150509 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is Frink batch-usable even if that isn't the intended use? < 1263150546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1263150573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not so much unintended as not the main use. < 1263150590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I find it more convenient this way and I'm sure Alan Eliasen, the author, does too. < 1263150608 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frink++ for the Junkyard Wars reference, anyway < 1263150613 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to love Scrapheap Challenge < 1263150625 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the US version wasn't as ruined as the US versions of most gameshows are < 1263150660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"fathoms water gravity barrel" is one of my favourite strings. < 1263150820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if one meter is 200 million beardseconds, why aren't we counting in 100 million beardseconds? < 1263150888 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what, exactly? < 1263150896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1263150937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess 100 million beardseconds is 1 hMbs (hecto-mega beardsecond.) :-D < 1263150949 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: as in, does 100 million beardseconds = 0.5m exactly, or approximately? < 1263150958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 beardsecond := 5 nm < 1263150963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a novelty unit, not an actual measured thing. < 1263150978 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guessed it was a novelty unit < 1263150983 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although presumably the beard has an actual purpose < 1263150990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The beard-second is a unit of length inspired by the light year, but used for extremely short distances such as those in nuclear physics. The beard-second is defined as the length an average beard grows in one second. Kemp Bennet Kolb defines the distance as exactly 100 Ångströms,[3] while Nordling and Österman's Physics Handbook has it half the size at 5 nanometers.[4] Google Calculator supports the beard-second for unit conversions using the latter < 1263150992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :conversion factor.[5] < 1263151000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see 5 nm most often. < 1263151035 0 :lament!n=lament@S0106001cf0fce011.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1263151047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, the kilometer will be replaced with the khMbs. < 1263151051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The kilo-hecta-mega beardsecond! < 1263151070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aka the hecto-giga beardsecond < 1263151113 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.co.ck/search?q=432+beard+seconds+in+attoparsecs < 1263151114 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NICE < 1263151155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :432 beardseconds -> attoparsecs < 1263151157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.000070000832656209624476 < 1263151161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just to re-inject some Frink fanboyism into the discussion. < 1263151172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Admittedly I had to do beardsecond := 5 nm, but it defined the plural form for me automatically.) < 1263151183 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1263151267 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: also, it gets commented on by Peter Norvig, which is also very cool < 1263151301 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, who is that < 1263151312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you are no longer welcome here → < 1263151335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hey, ais523 didn't know who jwz was < 1263151344 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Norvig < 1263151359 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's so good about Norvig? < 1263151360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that guy at google < 1263151361 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't actually know he worked for NASA/Google, though < 1263151362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jwz is just a cool dude, not an excellent computer scientist < 1263151369 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew of him from his research < 1263151375 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only read his PAIP book < 1263151394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, which part of it? < 1263151416 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's all over the place < 1263151428 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, randomly searching for research you just think "oh, it's Norvig again" < 1263151430 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's that good < 1263151454 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did he do?? < 1263151462 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember ever coming across his work :/ < 1263151480 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: then you're working in the wrong area < 1263151488 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are should I be in < 1263151496 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first time I saw his work it was some minor AI result < 1263151508 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read his AI book PAIP < 1263151537 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to learn Lisp < 1263151840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grr, I really want to move these taskbar items. < 1263151941 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm? < 1263151944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reoder? < 1263151946 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :re-order* < 1263151953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1263151962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, from what, to what? < 1263151992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to move a window entry. < 1263152005 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1263152027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, as in, move it from alphabetical order to something else? < 1263152037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not alphabetical, it's in opening order. < 1263152040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just want to move one entry, ffs. < 1263152046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I se < 1263152048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see* < 1263152059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, never heard of that feature < 1263152060 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't you just drag them? that works in Gnome, I thought it worked in KDE too < 1263152067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it did too < 1263152068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what???? < 1263152072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it does indeed < 1263152077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ Firefox poop ] < 1263152079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Click, drag, drop. < 1263152081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moved. < 1263152084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well in firefox yes < 1263152084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is really, really standard stuff. < 1263152087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1263152089 0 :augur!n=augur@c-68-54-80-152.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1263152090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never tried in taskbar under gnome < 1263152090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I MEANT A FIREFOX WINDOW < 1263152100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty sure it didn't work in the taskbar of KDE < 1263152103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on KDE 3.5 < 1263152117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh I thought you meant system task bar < 1263152121 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: only a couple of days ago I saw someone shouting at Microsoft for not implementing that until Win7 when every other common OS had done it for years < 1263152122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did. < 1263152125 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, system task bar < 1263152136 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, heh < 1263152336 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: "I want to be an astronaut!" "You will be a bin man" <<< if a kid who initially wanted to be an astronaut decides to change his mind after getting the results, he probably didn't want it enough for it to have been a possibility anyway. < 1263152361 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, some people become binmen, presumably they do it through choice < 1263152382 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok good point !!! < 1263152384 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that it defeats your point, just attacking your example, for no reason < 1263152387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: no shit < 1263152389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a joke < 1263152409 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: um, that's no reason not to take it seriously < 1263152412 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially in /this/ channel < 1263152417 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :half the on-topic stuff we discuss is jokes < 1263152424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah :P < 1263152507 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing i see is either a joke or not, everything will be considered serious, and every answer will be considered a serious answer, while nothing at all is taken seriously at the same time. < 1263152545 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is what happens when environments are separated from the outer game, but made to look like it < 1263152558 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my god the trees are beautiful < 1263152563 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was just outside again < 1263152567 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and like... snow < 1263152573 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and trees..... wow < 1263152583 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the canal's nice here, it's frozen over < 1263152583 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my head hurts < 1263152586 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is pretty rare < 1263152591 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should read some measure theory, exam tomorrow < 1263152597 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woah measure theory < 1263152613 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :frozen masses of water look sorta boring usually < 1263152618 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"woah"? < 1263152630 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woah < 1263152633 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woah. < 1263152667 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woajhhhhh < 1263152789 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i already took the exam for the real analysis course following the measure theory course, and it wasn't too hard, by some logic this is probably even simpler. < 1263152817 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i might even sleep a few hours tonight < 1263152822 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would have thought real analysis is easier than measure theory < 1263152849 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey kiddles < 1263152853 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: < 1263152855 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no : < 1263152863 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1263152886 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :our MT course was basically about lebesque and a few other measures, measurable functions, and basic results about lebesque integration < 1263152894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lesbianesque. (What?) < 1263152909 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the RA course builds a lot of structures over the framework < 1263152944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to write a spreadsheet program, but: < 1263152950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- it'd be best as a mode in my editor < 1263152953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- my editor isn't done yet. < 1263152954 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but writing programs is annoying < 1263152954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmph. < 1263152955 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know < 1263152963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: Thankfully not :P < 1263153013 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's a bit annoying! (?) < 1263153021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish kioslaves worked with Firefox so I could use man:/ :( < 1263153024 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you master all this stuff you can probably catch up with Terry Tao < 1263153044 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: is there an extension for that? < 1263153057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Probably not. < 1263153072 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: yes, the advanced courses of our university are so hard mastering their content makes you a supergenius < 1263153073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would work is a KIOSlave FUSE FS. < 1263153098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you could rewrite it to file:///mnt/kioslaves/man:(1) < 1263153102 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, apparently not < 1263153109 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd expect someone to have written one by now < 1263153116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's impossible. < 1263153116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I wish kioslaves worked with Firefox so I could use man:/ :( <-- I thought you hated firefox? < 1263153121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Extensions are just JavaScript. < 1263153121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :saying it was shit and such < 1263153125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It is. < 1263153142 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no they aren't, they can get into the internals too < 1263153145 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. vimperator < 1263153146 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah ff is the shit < 1263153148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Extensions are just JavaScript. <-- in firefox? No you can load *.so < 1263153154 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: http://wiki.kde.org/tiki-index.php?page=KIO+Fuse+Gateway < 1263153156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, then why use it < 1263153156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That's a plugin, not an extension. < 1263153164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Netscape API plugins are just for embedded content. < 1263153168 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Argh. < 1263153171 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dead link. < 1263153179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That's not getting into the internals. < 1263153186 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firefox's UI is written in XUL and JavaScript. < 1263153193 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: That's a plugin, not an extension. <-- no, you can load *.so in extensions too. At least for thunderbird. Enigmail does it < 1263153193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So of course JavaScript extensions can access it. < 1263153195 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can mess with the XUL, at least < 1263153200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would be surprised if you can't in firefox too < 1263153200 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes master stuff
< 1263153202 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1263153228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, hooking into Firefox's actual URL-loading code and routing it to KDE sounds unfun. < 1263153236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in "huge pain in the arse" unfun. < 1263153271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ehird: http://wiki.kde.org/tiki-index.php?page=KIO+Fuse+Gateway <-- 404 < 1263153275 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh said already < 1263153437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They should just replace KDE with fullscreen Konqueror. It can split the screen, it can browse the web, it can manage files, it can run a terminal, it can do remote file management, it can look at audio CDs like encoded files, it can install packages... < 1263153443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see no issue with this! < 1263153475 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reminds me of Emacs < 1263153554 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, I am going to try and find a usage of the word 'and' in the non-conjunctive sense by searching the net. < 1263153602 0 :lieuwe!i=3efb65d9@gateway/web/freenode/x-yfipghgzcnaakern JOIN :#esoteric < 1263153644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION takes a deep breath, installs Flash.
< 1263153649 0 :lieuwe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in underload, does the ^ operator insert the item into the program, or replace the next op, or does it truncate the program? < 1263153657 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: what you might want to consider is situations in which "X and Y do V" does not imply "X does V and Y does V" < 1263153658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Insert the item into the program. < 1263153664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lieuwe: You can think of (...) as a function. < 1263153665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ is call. < 1263153671 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or (...) is a string and ^ is eval. < 1263153690 0 :lieuwe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ah, so it inserts and then just continues with the rest off the program... < 1263153728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, (...) differs from functions in most languages because you can print their contents and concatenate them (which is actually function composition - fun(f) return (fun(g) return (fun(x) return f(g(x)))) - but whatever). < 1263153742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lieuwe: Yeah; otherwise, complex control flow would be impossible. < 1263153747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...at least, I think so. ais523? < 1263153775 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lieuwe: basically, imagine characters removed from the program as they're executed < 1263153780 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there's no way to go back to them anyway < 1263153784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I meant < 1263153797 0 :lieuwe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does the s operator print a newline? < 1263153799 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ inserts the top stack element just after the current IP, without overwriting anything, it's an insert < 1263153800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Underload turing-complete if ^ is "execute the top element on the stack, then quit"? < 1263153802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lieuwe: No. < 1263153804 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lieuwe: no, S doesn't < 1263153807 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can write ( < 1263153808 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :)S < 1263153810 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to print a newline < 1263153815 0 :lieuwe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ah, ok, thnx < 1263153826 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I think so, because that's Muriel's control-flow operator < 1263153832 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it would be a different sort of language < 1263153869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, let's try and write programs in it! < 1263153899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. I just realised I don't have sound. < 1263153920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fixed. < 1263153922 0 :lieuwe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but if ^ truncates the program, it doesn't mean it quits there, the stack thingy could write to the program,(but that would be hard to program in :-p) < 1263153942 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ is the only way to write to the program, though < 1263153955 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can see it in several different ways < 1263153963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :truncating ^ < 1263153964 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a function call, an eval, or replacing the ^ with the top stack element < 1263153965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1263153967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION writes an infinte loop
< 1263153969 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*infinite loop < 1263153970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(:^):^ < 1263153972 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: (:^):^ < 1263153972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well that was easy < 1263153973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No change there < 1263153990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah, Flash on Linux is desynchronised from the audio as always. < 1263154013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm... the problem is that there's not really any simple-but-non-trivial Underload programs < 1263154025 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they're all either trivial, or mind-boggling < 1263154036 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fibonacci's pretty simple < 1263154040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, actually < 1263154042 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we can write < 1263154046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(x)^y < 1263154048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as < 1263154061 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ul (()(*))(~:^:S*a~^a~!~*~:(/)S^):^ < 1263154064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(x^)(y)~^ < 1263154065 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No? < 1263154068 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (()(*))(~:^:S*a~^a~!~*~:(/)S^):^ < 1263154069 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*/*/**/***/*****/********/*************/*********************/**********************************/*******************************************************/*****************************************************************************************/********************************************************************************* ...too much output! < 1263154075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although that'd make (!)^foo problematic. < 1263154076 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot EgoBot didn't do Underload... < 1263154080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, wait! < 1263154082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's obvious < 1263154083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(x)^y < 1263154085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1263154088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(x)(y)*^ < 1263154096 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1263154112 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you handle (a^b)^c, though? < 1263154141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a(b)*(c)*^)^ < 1263154159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by doing these rewrites: < 1263154162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a^b)^c < 1263154171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a(b)*^)^c < 1263154177 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I'm not sure if that works if b manipulates the stack < 1263154178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a(b)*^)(c)*^ < 1263154179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1263154182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There we go < 1263154186 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Easy < 1263154198 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: easy, but wrong < 1263154213 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :executing that gives (a(b)*^c)^ < 1263154224 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := a(b)*^c < 1263154240 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the c never runs because it's after an ^ < 1263154247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, of course < 1263154250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me continue the rewriting then < 1263154254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a(b)*^)(c)*^ < 1263154261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a(b)*^c)^ < 1263154265 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a(b)*(c)*^)^ < 1263154276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because (f)(g)* = (fg) < 1263154290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then we just apply the regular a^b = a(b)*^ rule < 1263154296 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does (a)(^)*^b become? < 1263154307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a)(^)*^b < 1263154314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a)(^)*(b)*^ < 1263154319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a^b)^ < 1263154324 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you're evaluating the program, though < 1263154325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a(b)*^)^ < 1263154332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: This isn't a machine translation < 1263154335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is for humans to do < 1263154339 0 :lieuwe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the S command always uppercase?(does it HAVE to be, or is lowercase also fine?) < 1263154345 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: but I mean, that process could go into an infinite loop < 1263154347 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lieuwe: has to be uppercase < 1263154350 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a has to be lowercase < 1263154366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: So apply human ingenuity. < 1263154368 0 :lieuwe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: :-p < 1263154379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For most programs, it should be a relatively simple translation. < 1263154401 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'm pretty sure it is TC, but that this isn't the way to go about a proof < 1263154462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't trying to prove it turing-complete. < 1263154473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was trying to prove that it is quite a trivial variant of Underload for most programs. < 1263154488 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't call having to execute most of the program to compile a trivial variant < 1263154500 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's like, saying that replacing a program with its output is a trivial variant < 1263154568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a trivial variant FOR HUMANS TO TRANSLATE MOST PROGRAMS TO. < 1263154572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jesus christ. < 1263154597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish this mouse's left button was as easy to press as its right button. < 1263154670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://web11.twitpic.com/img/56256770-1eafd0a10499dc58601394e9fefa9c57.4b4a35c3-scaled.jpg Haskell's Tower of Babel < 1263154688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/./ < 1263154690 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I don't see how it's trivial at all, for large programs < 1263154715 0 :lieuwe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost done my implementation, only got ( and ) left to do... < 1263154808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1263154820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compose -> is → and Compose <- is �, so what should up and down arrow be? < 1263154826 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^| and v|? < 1263154881 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: heh < 1263154924 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{-# LANGUAGE IncomprehensibleTypes #-} < 1263154944 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strangely, altgr seems to produce �↓→ but not the other arrow < 1263154961 0 :lieuwe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, crap, found something stupid in my implementation, it pushes the raw ops on the stack, not the python equivalent, darnit... ah, well, i'll continue tomorow... < 1263154964 0 :lieuwe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1263154977 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ew, get a real client < 1263154993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if he pushes the python equivalent he's going to handily break S :) < 1263154997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the pitfalls of underload < 1263154997 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think lieuwe discovered the needing-to-store-two-representations issue < 1263155005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not an issue for interpreters. < 1263155022 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is in a way, just they use the same representation for both < 1263155056 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you have a two-representation problem with only one representation. < 1263155059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh-huh. < 1263155081 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how easy is it to analyse to see if only the string meaning or only the code meaning are needed? < 1263155087 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in some cases at least) < 1263155122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: needs string meaning = calls S while it is on top of stack < 1263155130 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: really difficult, in general < 1263155134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :needs code meaning = calls ^ while it is on top of stack < 1263155142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"it" also includes being concatenated with another function < 1263155152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := halting problem in the purest sense < 1263155172 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aye < 1263155210 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might be able to trace control flow to rule out some common cases < 1263155252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf, my compose doesn't have Compose - - = em-dash, either < 1263155256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION makes note to add that
< 1263155260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I used to be a Zen Buddhist, and myself used to search endlessly for a "bigger picture". Then I got hungry, had a burrito, and was enlightened." --reddit < 1263155306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any opinions on compose combos for up and down arrow? < 1263155314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^| and v| are ugly imo :/ < 1263155333 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: use the arrow keys? < 1263155333 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have been reading about some of factor's analysis. There was an almond-bread example that looked like over-HOFed stuff from Joy but translated into nice efficient machine code. Types were inferred all over the place and all the HOF-based control structures turned into loops and shit < 1263155352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Factor's compiler is amazing. < 1263155355 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aye < 1263155376 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does have an advantage over Smalltalk though < 1263155381 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :binding is a bit later < 1263155392 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you could probably do that with Underload too < 1263155403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC:, you mean. < 1263155409 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, arrow keys could work, but combined with what? < 1263155411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :| up arrow? < 1263155417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's less efficient to type than | ^ < 1263155421 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just the up arrow? < 1263155426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is Compose. < 1263155427 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or can you not have a one-char compose? < 1263155428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It takes two keys. < 1263155429 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most words have to be declared before use, unlike smalltalk/ruby < 1263155435 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: always exactly two? ugh < 1263155441 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, no, N. < 1263155450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if you have x y, you can't have multi_key x < 1263155452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or multi_key x y z < 1263155457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for obvious reasons < 1263155460 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1263155466 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about composing the up-arrow with itself? < 1263155472 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you really going to use the arrow keys as the first part of a compose, though? < 1263155476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: I would expect that to give me Knuth's arrow. < 1263155482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Perhaps someone else already did. < 1263155486 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that not an up arrow? < 1263155492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two up arrows. < 1263155498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. < 1263155502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's just up arrow up arrow < 1263155512 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant, is Knuth's arrow different from the up arrow glyph you want? < 1263155513 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not for horizontal arrows < 1263155520 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you can't stack vertically in regular text < 1263155524 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unicode, you disappoint me < 1263155528 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd put Knuth arrow on ^^, because it is related to exponentiation < 1263155532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unicode, I am disappoint. < 1263155552 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you disappoint me with a literal lack of points < 1263155553 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :codepoints, that is < 1263155555 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it isn't what I think it is < 1263155619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Left, right, up, down, adding to the compose file la la la < 1263155648 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UUDDLRLRBASS < 1263155667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if mdash is -- what's endash? :P < 1263155670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- space? < 1263155672 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--- < 1263155680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :endash is SHORTER. < 1263155683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and besides, that's impossible < 1263155684 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I know what you said about prefixes < 1263155684 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1263155687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have xy you can't have xyz :P < 1263155689 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mdash is ---, ndash is -- < 1263155695 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :— and – < 1263155703 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Completely identical in this monospaced font) < 1263155709 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look pretty differnt to me < 1263155714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I'm trying to insert the Unicode character with the Compose key, you dolt < 1263155715 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but my ms are wider than my ns < 1263155719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so obviously I can't use the Unicode chars directly < 1263155726 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I sort-of assumed compose would work like a modifier key < 1263155726 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Meh, altgr :-P < 1263155732 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you hold it down while you type what to compose, then let go < 1263155768 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about m- and n- < 1263155772 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jsut how they sound < 1263155789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1263155830 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.104.236.31 JOIN :#esoteric < 1263155868 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you get that? < 1263155898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compose should reflect the structure of the letters < 1263155905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. "o -> ö < 1263155907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'o -> ó < 1263155911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`o -> ò < 1263155914 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1263155916 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ss -> ß < 1263155926 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sußman < 1263155927 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just to make it easier to remember < 1263155931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/search.htm?q=less%20than&preview=entity ;; what a useless set of results < 1263155942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I consider it a good design principle. < 1263155964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, I actually saw KDE refer to a daemon as a dæmon, and I facepalmed. < 1263156028 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1263156059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the Unix term is daemon. < 1263156091 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arguably those are the same thing, though < 1263156105 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, different graphical representations of the same word < 1263156110 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :æ is just kerning < 1263156114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I disagræ. < 1263156143 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1263156175 0 :FireFly!n=firefly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1263156348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone know of a unicode browsing app? < 1263156505 0 :lament_!n=lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1263156580 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnome-character-map ? < 1263156591 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define lambda(ret, body, ...) ({ ret __LAMBDA__ (__VA_ARGS__) { body }; __LAMBDA__; }) < 1263156592 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, preferably not Gnome. < 1263156599 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... That kinda-sorta works. < 1263156617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the best you can do? < 1263156619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Behold: < 1263156668 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is anticipating Oleg's lambda. Which, though very much lambda, is not C. :P
< 1263156669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define lambda(params, ...) ({ __typeof__(({ __VA_ARGS__; }))__LAMBDA__ params { return ({ __VA_ARGS__; }); }; __LAMBDA__; }) < 1263156688 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1263156688 0 :lament_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :lament < 1263156690 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, that's a good point. < 1263156693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambda((int x), x*2) < 1263156728 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1263156745 0 :soupdragon!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1263156822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah. < 1263156835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone know what the codepoints of <, >, ^, and | are? < 1263156840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*^ and < 1263156859 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't work; __typeof__ strongly dislikes unknown variables... < 1263156874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Oh, does it not? < 1263156894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define lambda(params, ...) ({ __typeof__(lambda(params, ## __VA_ARGS__)) __LAMBDA__ params { return ({ __VA_ARGS__; }); }; __LAMBDA__; }) < 1263156897 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1263156917 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thar. < 1263156922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what is __LAMBDA__ defined as? < 1263156926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing. < 1263156928 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It isn't. < 1263156929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That defines __LAMBDA__. < 1263156947 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just a name that's not likely to be in use. < 1263156960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ffs, gnu extensions < 1263156974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Hey, if we restrict it to one parameter, we can do the typeof < 1263156977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By doing params; body < 1263156991 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: XD < 1263157000 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: And then, it's curry. Delicious curry. < 1263157012 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I thought you couldn't pass lambdas like that out of the block they were defined in < 1263157024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: No, it's out of the function. < 1263157025 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think. < 1263157027 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least in gcc < 1263157028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you can pass them upwards. < 1263157031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just not downwards. < 1263157032 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, as far as I can see it defines lambda() not __LAMBDA__, and what is __LAMBDA__ good for? < 1263157042 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that isn't passing it out, you're still inside the block < 1263157053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: *sigh* < 1263157054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learn C. < 1263157059 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: __LAMBDA__ is not defined in the C preprocessor. < 1263157066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I know C. Just not GNU statement crap < 1263157075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing to do with GNU statement crap. < 1263157078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or typeof < 1263157079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You fail at the pre-processor. < 1263157085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq's didn't use typeof. < 1263157089 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, so why do you want it undefined < 1263157095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1263157113 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :({ }) is a GNU extension < 1263157116 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In mine, __LAMBDA__ is defined as a function of type ret(*)(__VA_ARGS__). < 1263157117 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as is nested functions < 1263157142 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The the statement: ret __LAMBDA__(__VA_ARGS__) {body}; < 1263157146 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/The/By/ < 1263157176 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a function declaration. The following __LAMBDA__ makes the result of ({ }) be the address to that function. < 1263157179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed. And I never bothered to learn any gnu extension apart from __attribute__, Because usually you can still compile the code with __attribute__ on other compilers (with relevant pre-processor code to just make it mean nothing) < 1263157187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while for other ones you would have to write the code twice < 1263157193 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :once for gnu and once for portable < 1263157194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The part you failed at is not a GNU extension. < 1263157241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, nasty, upper case name as a function name < 1263157271 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It never escapes the ({ }) block. < 1263157289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what on earth are the semantics for that now again < 1263157292 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: the part he may be failing at is defining functions inside other functions, which /is/ a GNU extension < 1263157295 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that I will remember it tomorrow < 1263157303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh right that crap < 1263157304 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: same as for do {} in Perl < 1263157314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :messes up with non-executable stacks too < 1263157319 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Statement expression. < 1263157323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to the trampoline fail < 1263157359 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A similar thing can be done in C++. < 1263157370 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unlike this, the lambda macro in C++ is valid C++. < 1263157391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, which I don't really know much about, deciding to stop messing with C++ soon after I saw what templates could do < 1263157441 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, that language is powerful, I must stop using it! < 1263157473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no, it was the messyness < 1263157517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, like, not being able to place the methods of a template in a *.c (functions won't be there when template is instantiated in another file < 1263157518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1263157540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably it might work if you create dummy instantiation of those in that source file < 1263157551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that is just ugly < 1263157583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, in fact, rather than rant here I just refer you to the C++ FQA < 1263157591 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read it already < 1263157676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, horribly long compile time. I have yet to see any C++ compiler that manages at the speed of even gcc. And gcc is hardly fast. < 1263157709 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and anything approaching the speed of tcc for c++? I'll believe it when I see it < 1263157782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I really prefer being able to test often when developing. With no optimisation it should IMO be fast to compile. Oh also please stop abusing operator overloading,) < 1263157886 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe someone could invent incremental compilation < 1263157890 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it recompiles only what's changed? < 1263157908 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing it at file-level is too coarse for C++, is the issue < 1263158013 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1263158100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1263158123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, I haven't seen that done for less than file level for C++. Well precompiled headers, but when I tried that I couldn't get it to work < 1263158144 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think I managed to trigger ICE in gcc. That was during 4.1 or so, so it may be better nowdays < 1263158146 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: really? it's pretty easy < 1263158148 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc header.h < 1263158160 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ICE"? < 1263158174 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, ... Internal Compiler Error < 1263158190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sheesh, that guy doesn't know a jargon acronym I used! < 1263158200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must express my shock with an ellipsis. < 1263158221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also it didn't work for more than one header. Nor if it wasn't the first header included < 1263158235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I have a working lambda with __typeof__ < 1263158242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, if you defined anything before including it (in the source file) < 1263158284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://sprunge.us/deGW < 1263158385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://sprunge.us/RTgd This version handles multiple statements in the body < 1263158392 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how to fix the one-parameter-only issue, though. < 1263158415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the lulz, here's how it desugars: < 1263158417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : upto(10, ({ __typeof__( ({ int i; (void)printf("%d\n", i); }) ) __LAMBDA__(int i) { return ({ (void)printf("%d\n", i); }); }; __LAMBDA__; })); < 1263158658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fn(int i, (void)printf("%d\n", i)) could also be written as fn(int i, printf("%d\n", i); return) :-D < 1263158696 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the multi-args problem can be "solved" with more parens < 1263158703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1263158710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because __typeof__( ({ param; __VA_ARGS__; }) ) < 1263158716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :param -> "int i;" < 1263158717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if < 1263158722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :params; -> "(int i, int j);" < 1263158725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that wouldn't work as a declaration < 1263158726 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(would it?) < 1263158732 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1263158742 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's... funky < 1263158779 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about "fn(int i; char j, ... )" < 1263158782 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ew) < 1263158788 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Solution: K&R C params. < 1263158799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/IOdM < 1263158801 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are you putting the decls at the top of the block rather than doing typeof on the function itself anyway? < 1263158803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Advanced lambdaology! < 1263158818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: erm < 1263158822 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I see now < 1263158824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does __typeof__(x) x = ... WORK? < 1263158833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: fn(int i; int j, ...) is unworkable because we need to put it in the function params < 1263158862 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh bugger yes < 1263158874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :answer: no, __typeof__(__LAMBDA__) __LAMBDA__(...) doesn't work < 1263158883 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I see that now < 1263158887 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :__typeof__( ({param_decl; __VA_ARGS__}) ) fn(params) param_decl < 1263158911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Does GNU C99 support K&R parameters? < 1263158940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, you have to specify parameters like that in your actual FN usage that way. < 1263158945 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is lame-butt. < 1263158945 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just need C1X-style type inference(!) < 1263158980 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Yes. < 1263158984 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We could use X-Macros w/ PARAMS(PARAM(int,i),...) to generate a file with the prototype and a file with the argument list. < 1263158990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then #include that. :-D < 1263159013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, who needs multiple parameters when you have currying? < 1263159019 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: It even works with -std=c99 -pedantic < 1263159073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION proceeds to implement the lambda calculus standard library in C.
< 1263159079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, no. < 1263159087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We can't even do currying. < 1263159094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because you can't return a nested function. < 1263159099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They expire if you shove 'em down the stack. < 1263159133 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the main reason for Apple's blocks having explicit copying for them, yeah... < 1263159149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I invoke Greenspun's Tenth Law and implement R5RS Scheme. < 1263159165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Tenth Rule < 1263159174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, the Rule is for Common Lisp only. < 1263159177 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, you *could* implement a (stupid) copying scheme. < 1263159179 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what were the other 9 rules? < 1263159203 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I want to know which language Common Lisp is a badly designed implementation of half of < 1263159209 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they weren't < 1263159222 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: itself < 1263159228 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just make sure the function ends with: { int end_func = UINT_MAX; } < 1263159233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, Morris's Corollary is "...including Common Lisp." < 1263159239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The rule was written sometime around 1993 by Philip Greenspun. Although it is known as his tenth rule, there are in fact no preceding rules, only the tenth. The reason for this according to Greenspun: "Sorry, Han-Wen, but there aren't 9 preceding laws. I was just trying to give the rule a memorable name."[3] < 1263159243 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And grep for UINT_MAX in your lambda copying function. < 1263159252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: O_O < 1263159277 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ... Did I happen to mention that this is almost sure to break? < 1263159295 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, make it volatile. Less likely to break. < 1263159296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("Every program attempts to expand until it can read mail. Those programs which cannot so expand are replaced by ones which can." --Zawinski's Law of Software Envelopment) < 1263159310 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1263159404 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/read mail/post to twitter/ nowadays < 1263159425 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Talking to oerjan makes me experience synchronicity or something < 1263159432 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, naturally. also, what? < 1263159473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's ^'s codepoint? < 1263159483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: What to call a house's crawl space was being discussed earlier < 1263159498 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: in hex? < 1263159510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1263159511 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"man ascii" says its 5e < 1263159514 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it's < 1263159518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks. < 1263159520 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`c printf("%x",'^'); < 1263159521 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1263159524 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doesn't recall that discussion. or know what a crawl space is. i guess i'll find out when i get to reddit.
< 1263159530 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("%x",'^'); < 1263159533 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5e < 1263159537 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :helps to get the right bot... < 1263159537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: It was in here. < 1263159557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^| for up arrow, but v| or |v for down arrow? < 1263159565 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does !c work? < 1263159567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : pikhq: http://sprunge.us/RTgd This version handles multiple statements in the body <-- did I actually manage to convince you to use something that I recommended? < 1263159579 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: compiles and runs C, I think, adding an appropriate wrapper if necessary < 1263159582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No? < 1263159590 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c int main(void) { puts("Hello, world!"); } < 1263159599 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I'm pretty sure it was me who recommended that pastebin to you < 1263159599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c puts("poop!") < 1263159600 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poop! < 1263159603 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: massive security hole? < 1263159606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No, I told you about it. < 1263159608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: plash'd. < 1263159611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go on; try and break it. < 1263159614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God knows we have. < 1263159620 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c *NULL < 1263159627 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1263159629 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :broke it < 1263159630 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!!! < 1263159640 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: just no output < 1263159645 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kinda hard to break Plash. < 1263159653 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just one interpretation ais :p < 1263159657 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c int main(void) { for(;;); return 0 } < 1263159658 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does not compile. < 1263159660 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c int main(void) { for(;;); return 0; } < 1263159663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hi < 1263159664 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("a"); printf("%d",*(int*)NULL); printf("b"); < 1263159669 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./interps/gcccomp/gcccomp: line 52: 24519 Segmentation fault /tmp/compiled.$$ < 1263159687 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi AnMaster < 1263159688 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you manage to break out of Plash's sandboxed libc, you find yourself in an empty chroot. < 1263159696 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c int main(void) { for(;;){malloc(99999); return 0; } < 1263159697 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does not compile. < 1263159704 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With literally nothing but your program and ld. < 1263159704 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: unmatched braces < 1263159706 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c int main(void) { for(;;){malloc(9999);}; return 0; } < 1263159713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I do have to say the annotation today was quite nice < 1263159715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :v| or |v for down arrow? any opinions? < 1263159718 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'll just be an infinite loop that silently terminates after a bit < 1263159719 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: both < 1263159722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright < 1263159724 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you don't have to remember which < 1263159737 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't timeouts give a message? < 1263159739 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c int main(void) { for(;;){fork();}; return 0; } < 1263159750 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c for(;;) printf("x"); < 1263159756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c puts("POOP") < 1263159759 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :POOP < 1263159759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c puts("POOP"); < 1263159761 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is seeing what messages all the common stuff gives
< 1263159762 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :POOP < 1263159770 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ps < 1263159798 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1263159853 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :":39:53 < ehird> Go on; try and break it." < 1263159857 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm < 1263159879 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c for(;;) puts("beep"); < 1263159880 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beep < 1263159887 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c for(;;) puts("beep"); < 1263159888 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beep < 1263159892 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1263159900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It DCCs you the rest of the output. < 1263159913 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: oh this will be fun < 1263159943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plash is well-tested, mature open-source software. Your chance of breaking it via an IRC bot is extremely low. < 1263159953 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1263159959 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"* SimonRC is seeing what messages all the common stuff gives" < 1263159960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if you do, your chance of breaking out of the empty chroot you will find yourself in is extremely low too. < 1263159982 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :geordi has some pretty crazy sandboxing too < 1263159995 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for those of you who have used geordi < 1263160006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: Here's the vector of attack I would suggest: Make it download (it has functionality to do this) a statically-linked executable. Plash modifies the dynamically-linked glibc. < 1263160013 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, also static binaries = no luck < 1263160014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then, try and break out through syscalls. < 1263160016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried that in plash < 1263160024 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it worked up to a point < 1263160040 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though, then you need to hope for a kernel bug. < 1263160043 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c for(int i = 1; i; i++) printf("%d", i); < 1263160056 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: No, just kernel functionality which Plash doesn't want you using. < 1263160068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, since it runs the process in an empty chroot with a preloaded libc replacement that calls a server outside the chroot for file IO and such... < 1263160075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly, you then need a kernel exploit for the chroot. < 1263160083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, thus, static binary can't do anything < 1263160093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION Alt+SysRq+K to reload .XCompose
< 1263160097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1263160112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did try direct syscalls < 1263160134 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I can't get it to spam me now < 1263160137 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.104.236.31 JOIN :#esoteric < 1263160139 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c for(int i = 1; i; i++) printf("%d\n", i); < 1263160142 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 < 1263160146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah; its unworking is present. < 1263160146 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plash could start using ptrace for its sandboxing. < 1263160150 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, needed a \n < 1263160153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ompose - -? No luck. < 1263160154 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then have direct control over the system calls. < 1263160155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I do believe you could do mischeif with sockets though < 1263160162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't allow break out < 1263160167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh! < 1263160170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but direct syscalls to directly work on sockets < 1263160170 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gives up after 3500 lines < 1263160172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be fun < 1263160196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Plash could start using ptrace for its sandboxing. <-- planned feature iirc. And then all hope is lost < 1263160205 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we are assuming we run arbitrary machine code here, right? < 1263160210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: You can. < 1263160212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!asm < 1263160217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can also do !asm ...url... < 1263160219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or !c ...url... < 1263160223 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c char* a="!c char*a =|%s%c%s%c%s|; char* c=strdup(a); for(char *b=a; *b;) if(*b++=='|') b[-1]=0; printf(a+12,a,34,c,34,a+23);"; char* c=strdup(a); for(char *b=a; *b;) if(*b++=='|') b[-1]=0; printf(a+12,a,34,c,34,a+23); < 1263160225 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./interps/gcccomp/gcccomp: line 52: 25004 Segmentation fault /tmp/compiled.$$ < 1263160228 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoops < 1263160231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what? < 1263160238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did you manage that < 1263160240 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: Not just "assuming". That's what Ptrace does. < 1263160253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, does the compiler crash locally on that for you? < 1263160256 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1263160260 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It runs arbitrary machine code in a very safe way. < 1263160270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# Dashes < 1263160272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : : "–" U2013 # EN DASH < 1263160274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : : "—" U2014 # EM DASH < 1263160275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shoulda known it already had it. < 1263160277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :– < 1263160279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :— < 1263160288 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c char* a="!c char*a =@%s%c%s%c%s@; char* c=strdup(a); for(char *b=a; *b;) if(*b++==64) b[-1]=0; printf(a+12,a,34,c,34,a+23);"; char* c=strdup(a); for(char *b=a; *b;) if(*b++==64) b[-1]=0; printf(a+12,a,34,c,34,a+23); < 1263160289 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./interps/gcccomp/gcccomp: line 52: 25053 Segmentation fault /tmp/compiled.$$ < 1263160294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what are you trying to do? < 1263160294 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that fix is needed, at least < 1263160297 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: quine < 1263160301 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1263160306 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you should file a bug if that happens outside plash < 1263160314 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :against what? < 1263160326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh not gcc? < 1263160329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1263160329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, misread the error < 1263160338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, thought it was gcc itself that segfaulted < 1263160370 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.104.236.31 JOIN :#esoteric < 1263160383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :�→↑↓ < 1263160385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, anyway it doesn't currently use ptrace afaik < 1263160390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what I'd do for the diagonals. < 1263160399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, also I wonder how threads interact with this. < 1263160407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, pthreads < 1263160412 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :L/ \J r\ /7 ? < 1263160415 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Do you know of any way to get an alt-code-like setp on X? < 1263160417 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*setup < 1263160417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone up for writing a short pthreads test program? < 1263160420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess -^ for upleft, ^- for upright, v- for downleft and -v for downright. < 1263160424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: alt-code-like? < 1263160432 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you type in a digit sequence < 1263160433 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or compose-uparrow-rightarrow ? < 1263160439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: can't do that, can you? < 1263160442 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my case, I'd just want the Unicode codepoint < 1263160443 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1263160445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Ah. < 1263160450 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't even compile, locally < 1263160450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Don't; Compose is far superior. ;-) < 1263160457 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: But less generic < 1263160461 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not mutually exclusive either < 1263160483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look in System Settings → Region & Language → Keyboard Layout → Advanced < 1263160487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There might be something there. < 1263160491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/Advanced$/Advanced./ < 1263160518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Key sequence to kill the X server: [ ] Control + Alt + Backspace" < 1263160521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A GUI for everything! < 1263160537 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1263160537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Nope, nothing there. < 1263160552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: You could generate a Compose file with every codepoint. < 1263160559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so lets see < 1263160564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be gigantic and X11 would take about five years to start, but it'd work. < 1263160585 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah :( < 1263160810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, downside of compose: no key repeat < 1263160810 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c char a[]="!c char a[]=@%s%c%s%c%s@; char* c=strdup(a); for(char *b=a; *b;) if(*b++==64) b[-1]=0; printf(a+13,a,34,c,34,a+24);"; char* c=strdup(a); for(char *b=a; *b;) if(*b++==64) b[-1]=0; printf(a+13,a,34,c,34,a+24); < 1263160812 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c char a[]="!c char a[]=@%s%c%s%c%s@; char* c=strdup(a); for(char *b=a; *b;) if(*b++==64) b[-1]=0; printf(a+13,a,34,c,34,a+24);"; char* c=strdup(a); for(char *b=a; *b;) if(*b++==64) b[-1]=0; printf(a+13,a,34,c,34,a+24); < 1263160813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :→→→→→→→→→→→→→→→→→→→→→→→→→→→→→→→→→→→→→→→→→→ < 1263160815 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :found my error < 1263160819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :long live altgr < 1263160823 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some reason I was trying to write to a constant string < 1263160846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, turn on -Wwrite-strings ;P < 1263160852 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: how, with egobot? < 1263160857 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, easier just to fix the declaration < 1263160860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, that I don't know < 1263160864 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or write to c, fwiw < 1263160864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what? < 1263160869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one warns you < 1263160869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1263160904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, nice polygot. Now just make it output brainfuck or underload every other time < 1263160916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can run fungot against egobot < 1263160917 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 1l 2l axo befunge bch bf8,16,32,64 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain rail sadol sceql udage01 unlambda whirl is that fnord < 1263160923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Polyglor"? < 1263160925 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Polyglot < 1263160927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a quine. < 1263160933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, err typo < 1263160935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather < 1263160938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought ahead < 1263160940 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c char* a="!c char*a =@%s%c%s%c%s@; char* c=strdup(a); for(char *b=c; *b;) if(*b++==64) b[-1]=0; printf(c+12,c,34,a,34,c+23);"; char* c=strdup(a); for(char *b=c; *b;) if(*b++==64) b[-1]=0; printf(c+12,c,34,a,34,c+23); < 1263160941 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the polygot < 1263160942 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c char*a ="!c char*a =@%s%c%s%c%s@; char* c=strdup(a); for(char *b=c; *b;) if(*b++==64) b[-1]=0; printf(c+12,c,34,a,34,c+23);"; char* c=strdup(a); for(char *b=c; *b;) if(*b++==64) b[-1]=0; printf(c+12,c,34,a,34,c+23); < 1263160960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: 1l 2l axo befunge bch bf8,16,32,64 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain rail sadol sceql udage01 unlambda whirl is that fnord <-- what < 1263160961 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you aren't using? it's not scheme! they look like cavemen." " if you like < 1263160971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie!! what the hell was that string from < 1263160974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot itself? < 1263160986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm no < 1263160989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly egobot < 1263160991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1263160993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot. < 1263160993 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c char*a="!c char*a=@%s%c%s%c%s@;char*c=strdup(a);for(char*b=c;*b;)if(*b++==64)b[-1]=0;printf(c+11,c,34,a,34,c+22);";char* c=strdup(a);for(char*b=c;*b;)if(*b++==64)b[-1]=0;printf(c+11,c,34,a,34,c+22); < 1263160995 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c char*a="!c char*a=@%s%c%s%c%s@;char*c=strdup(a);for(char*b=c;*b;)if(*b++==64)b[-1]=0;printf(c+11,c,34,a,34,c+22);";char*c=strdup(a);for(char*b=c;*b;)if(*b++==64)b[-1]=0;printf(c+11,c,34,a,34,c+22); < 1263161000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot is going to have a bot change. < 1263161001 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: rigght moving the stuff to colin. < 1263161001 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!fnord < 1263161005 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c char*a="!c char*a=@%s%c%s%c%s@;char*c=strdup(a);for(char*b=c;*b;)if(*b++==64)b[-1]=0;printf(c+11,c,34,a,34,c+22);";char*c=strdup(a);for(char*b=c;*b;)if(*b++==64)b[-1]=0;printf(c+11,c,34,a,34,c+22); < 1263161008 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c char*a="!c char*a=@%s%c%s%c%s@;char*c=strdup(a);for(char*b=c;*b;)if(*b++==64)b[-1]=0;printf(c+11,c,34,a,34,c+22);";char*c=strdup(a);for(char*b=c;*b;)if(*b++==64)b[-1]=0;printf(c+11,c,34,a,34,c+22); < 1263161013 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go < 1263161018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He is changing from the bot gender of fungot to EgoBot. < 1263161019 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: czech rock :d hope you're not disappointed, but i've never tried magic, so i'm supposed to be an atheist < 1263161022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :His new name will apparently be "colin". < 1263161029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And he will be an atheist. < 1263161039 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1263161040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION nods head. Solemnly.
< 1263161051 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, I think it's possible to do a much shorter C quine than that < 1263161060 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so too < 1263161067 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just, not right now, I have work to do that I really should be doing < 1263161075 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well yes. isn't there a zero byte one from IOCCC? < 1263161087 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the geordi quine is geordi: { char y(34); stringstream i("geordi: { char y(34); stringstream i(!); string t; getline(i, t, '!'); cout << t << y << i.str() << y << i.rdbuf(); }"); string t; getline(i, t, '!'); cout << t << y << i.str() << y << i.rdbuf(); } < 1263161101 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C will be a bit slower < 1263161102 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that doesn't count < 1263161107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : coppro that isn't C. That is C++ < 1263161110 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1263161115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well the one byte one then? < 1263161120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int main(){char*x="printf(%c%s%c,34,x,34)";return printf(x,34,x,34);} < 1263161124 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that wasn't a quine < 1263161125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :↑ C quine < 1263161138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody said it was C. < 1263161138 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: how? < 1263161140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :geordi runs C++. < 1263161143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: How what? < 1263161144 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't print the char* or the int main < 1263161147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops. < 1263161152 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c char*x="printf(%c%s%c,34,x,34)";return printf(x,34,x,34); < 1263161153 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :printf("printf(%c%s%c,34,x,34)",34,x,34) < 1263161165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops, right. < 1263161168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's for the embedded version. < 1263161171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's try again: < 1263161174 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c return printf("printf(%c%s%c,34,x,34)",34,x,34); < 1263161175 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does not compile. < 1263161197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sec < 1263161240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int main(x,y){y="int main(x,y){y=%c%s%c;return printf(y,34,y,34);}";return printf(y,34,y,34);} < 1263161248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what languages allow you to read the program code from inside the program. I mean, non-esolangs < 1263161255 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note my wonderful casting powers. < 1263161271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without opening the source file (if compiled) < 1263161277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway that made me thing of a short bash quine < 1263161285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bash echo "test, does this have bash?" < 1263161289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh echo "test, does this have bash?" < 1263161289 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test, does this have bash? < 1263161292 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1263161292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int main(int x,char**y){x="int main(int x,char**y){x=%c%s%c;return printf(x,34,x,34);}";return printf(x,34,x,34);} < 1263161296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh echo "$0" < 1263161297 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/tmp/input.25413 < 1263161298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :↑ Valid C. < 1263161300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh cat "$0" < 1263161301 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat "$0" < 1263161303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there < 1263161304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Behold my evil. < 1263161306 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :short bash quine! < 1263161325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Anyone who thinks that is a quine is an idiot who has not seen it before. < 1263161325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or shell one + cat < 1263161326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1263161333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you think you actually thought of that cheat yourself? < 1263161337 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Colin is one of my computers, so that's probably something I said. < 1263161339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no < 1263161339 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: undefined behaviour, you need explicit casts to make it relevant < 1263161345 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl #!/usr/bin/cat < 1263161346 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't exec /usr/bin/cat at /tmp/input.25470 line 1. < 1263161350 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl #!/bin/cat < 1263161351 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!/bin/cat < 1263161353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, but I haven't read about it. I assumed someone else must have thought of it before < 1263161353 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go < 1263161359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int main(int x,char**y){x=(int)"int main(int x,char**y){x=%c%s%c;return printf(x,34,x,34);}";return printf((char*)x,34,x,34);} < 1263161362 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's one of my favourite Perl quines just because it's so absurd < 1263161369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You can do %s on an int because printf just has ... < 1263161389 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: assuming int is the same size as a pointer, it's likely to work < 1263161405 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's undefined behaviour even if they're the same, as the interp can use any implementation-defined tricks it likes to cast int to pointer < 1263161409 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :including changing the representation < 1263161415 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why would perl even consider it may be invoked on a non-perl program? < 1263161422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int main(){char*x="int main(){char*x=%c%s%c;return printf(x,34,x,34);}";return printf(x,34,x,34);} < 1263161424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shorter, anyway. < 1263161442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because you can do #!perl -w < 1263161448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it just executes the program mentioned < 1263161450 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so you can set perl as a generic command interpreter on a system that doesn't do shebangs < 1263161453 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it emulates them for you < 1263161459 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes for food
< 1263161460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is that the real reason? wow < 1263161461 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no, that's an entirely different sort of magic < 1263161475 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the name "perl" is in the string, it instead reads command-line options from it < 1263161480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1263161481 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: according to the manpages, yes < 1263161481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant more like < 1263161485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!/path/to/perl -w < 1263161535 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that has the word "perl" in, so it'll run under whichever perl you ran it with < 1263161543 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even more fun is "#!/bin/sh -- # -*- perl -*- -p" < 1263161548 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is an actual example in the manual < 1263161584 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1263161588 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : If the #! line does not contain the word "perl", the program name after the #! is executed instead of the Perl interpreter. This is slightly bizarre, but it helps people on machines that don't do #!because they can tell a program that their SHELL is /usr/bin/perl, and Perl will then dispatch the program to the correct interpreter for them. < 1263161593 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O < 1263161603 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoops, missed a space unwrapping that < 1263161608 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : If the #! line does not contain the word "perl", the program name after the #! is executed instead of the Perl interpreter. This is slightly bizarre, but it helps people on machines that don't do #! because they can tell a program that their SHELL is /usr/bin/perl, and Perl will then dispatch the program to the correct interpreter for them. < 1263161617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the "Hey, we added this so perl helps you do stuff, even if you don't code Perl that's okay, we're just here to help" < 1263161629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It was just a few lines of code and we like you guys, so, you know." < 1263161637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Set us as your command interpreter and whatnot." < 1263161638 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reminds me of DNA Maze < 1263161649 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :version 2 ran the DOS equivalent of the UNIX command "reset" once it exited < 1263161656 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I could use it to restore messed-up ttys < 1263161662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1263161674 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1263161692 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it was used for other purposes too; I once replaced the entire DRM of a C compiler with DNA Maze) < 1263161695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://simulacrum.dorm.duke.edu/allyourgoogle.svg < 1263161704 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(stop playing the game, you can use your compiler now) < 1263161709 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :svg is awesome < 1263161712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never thought I'd stare at a functional Google homepage. Rotating. < 1263161725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very slow in Firefox, though. Let me try it in a WebKit browser. < 1263161732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: brilliant < 1263161744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: so you can set perl as a generic command interpreter on a system that doesn't do shebangs <-- wouldn't it make more sense to have a special purpose such program < 1263161756 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Perl's a special purpose everything program < 1263161765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, because if it's the 90s you don't have that kind of bandwidth < 1263161781 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"swiss army chainsaw" < 1263161781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if installing Perl helps you run Perlish stuff, which usually comes with shebangs, all the better < 1263161809 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl is the antiunix < 1263161846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, heh < 1263161848 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On one tool for one job: "Those days are dead and gone and the eulogy was delivered by Perl." —Rob Pike < 1263161863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it would be a 10-20 line C program anyway < 1263161874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You don't have a C compiler. < 1263161889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, okay, the binary would still be tiny < 1263161895 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you probably have cc, given the time period in question < 1263161899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's not such a huge big deal, it's just a nicety. < 1263161904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why bother to seek out such a program? < 1263161905 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1263161918 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl programs traditionally do the reverse, too < 1263161923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that quote by Rob Pike seems to be a good summary < 1263161924 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're written as a perl/sh polyglot < 1263161933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, they are? < 1263161934 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that systems that don't do #! re-invoke it under perl if it's run by sh by mistake < 1263161935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how and why < 1263161948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like this: < 1263161950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay that answers why, how < 1263161951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1263161951 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eval 'exec perl -wS $0 ${1+"$@"}' < 1263161952 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!/usr/bin/perl < 1263161955 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if $running_under_some_shell < 1263161959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ooh, synchronicity < 1263161967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I added the first line for you to append to < 1263161970 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except I missed the seimcolon < 1263161976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :; < 1263161977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fixed < 1263161979 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, my first line came before yours, rather runing the effect at my end < 1263161980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is out of order < 1263161985 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah < 1263161990 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!/usr/bin/perl < 1263161993 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eval 'exec perl -wS $0 ${1+"$@"}' < 1263161997 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if $running_under_some_shell; < 1263162002 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go < 1263162009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1263162013 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun < 1263162018 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, you'd want the -wS in the first line too, if you were using those options < 1263162029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why -wS? < 1263162031 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sh has significant whitespace, so it never even looks at the third line < 1263162035 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: in the example in the manual < 1263162043 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could omit it, but -w is rather recommended < 1263162051 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and yes I know sh well enough to know newline ends command < 1263162055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the shebang should be #!/usr/bin/perl -wS < 1263162060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ooh, ridiculous Perl feature idea: < 1263162061 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Perl it doesn't, so it sees an if that fails < 1263162065 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and doesn't run the line before < 1263162071 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and eval is a valid Perl statement, so it parses < 1263162076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks for any line starting with "exec perl" before any other non-comment lines < 1263162078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ignores it < 1263162079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, undefined variable is false? < 1263162084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except, wait, no < 1263162087 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, or an error if use strict; is in use < 1263162092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks for any line starting with "exec perl" before any other non-comment lines < 1263162096 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so for a strict program, it would be < 1263162099 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!/usr/bin/perl -wS < 1263162106 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why the eval? < 1263162107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and interprets all of the following arguments starting with - as arguments to Perl < 1263162109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1263162111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!/usr/bin/perl < 1263162111 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eval 'exec perl -wS $0 ${1+"$@"}' < 1263162113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exec perl -wS < 1263162119 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if $::running_under_some_shell; < 1263162120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1263162123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exec perl -wS "$@" < 1263162127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be like #!/usr/bin/perl -wS, except working on non-shebang machines < 1263162129 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: to hide the shellcode inside from Perl < 1263162132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: horrible and brilliant, methinks < 1263162136 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes < 1263162139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no it should be ${1+"$@"} most likely < 1263162144 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to deal with old shells < 1263162171 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, perl sees what's effectively eval 'stuff in quotes' if 0; < 1263162175 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and doesn't run the command at all < 1263162244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, right < 1263162256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, couldn't that eval mess up things though < 1263162262 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, because it /never runs/ < 1263162270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, *for the shell* < 1263162278 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, because the shell just evals what's inside it < 1263162284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what if you pass some shell code as an argument. It looks improperly quoted < 1263162293 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's properly quoted, it's in single quotes < 1263162303 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which just like in shells, don't need quoting of anything but ' inside them < 1263162308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1263162311 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can put literal anything but ' inside singlequotes, I think < 1263162311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read it as "" < 1263162313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well oaky < 1263162314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay* < 1263162317 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly even literal NUL, although I'm less sure of that < 1263162324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it can fail if $0 contains spaces < 1263162328 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the val < 1263162330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eval* < 1263162334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the code after < 1263162349 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ooh, well noticed, report it as a bug to the Perl people < 1263162349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, as for literal NUL, those will cause bash at least to end the string there < 1263162357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as they are null terminated internally < 1263162363 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, but there aren't any so it's irrelevant to this discussion < 1263162366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh? wouldn't this differ between shell scripts < 1263162375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1263162377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl scripts < 1263162381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it is up to each perl script < 1263162391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, or is it from some manual page of perl? < 1263162391 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but they could fix the example in the manual < 1263162400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, indeed. where is the bug tracker? < 1263162401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a2p does this: < 1263162405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!/usr/bin/perl < 1263162406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eval 'exec /usr/bin/perl -S $0 ${1+"$@"}' < 1263162408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if $running_under_some_shell; < 1263162410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : # this emulates #! processing on NIH machines. < 1263162411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : # (remove #! line above if indigestible) < 1263162422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea what "indigestible" means. < 1263162426 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I have < 1263162428 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: unable to be eaten < 1263162428 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't eat it < 1263162432 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1263162435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I KNOW THAT < 1263162436 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, it means the #! causes an error < 1263162445 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas it's a shebang to most shells, and a comment to most others < 1263162446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes, as in shell or system can't handle #! < 1263162449 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc, all this is no use on windows < 1263162450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe # isn't a comment < 1263162463 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :digest < 1263162465 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :digestible < 1263162467 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indigestible < 1263162468 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, someone write a perl / DOS batch file polyglot < 1263162482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. < 1263162483 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where the batch file runs the perl < 1263162484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, does perl use a mailing list or a bug tracker? < 1263162489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: they use rt < 1263162494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, rt? < 1263162495 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: mailing list is perl5-porters, but it has a bug tracker too < 1263162517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, which manual page is it from? < 1263162521 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rt.perl.org/perlbug/ < 1263162524 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's on "perlrun" < 1263162549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is FOO = x; valid Perl? < 1263162557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wth is up with the login < 1263162562 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no, there's no sigil < 1263162573 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: bitcard does the accounts for all the perl stuff < 1263162580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, whatever that is < 1263162595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: an account. < 1263162596 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's the accounts thing for Perl and CPAN < 1263162602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok, let me rephrase < 1263162611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what can I put after FOO to make it a valid perl nop? < 1263162618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess FOO; works, but eh < 1263162624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FOO if 0; too < 1263162636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, bitcard certainly seems trustworthy: "You have requested an encrypted page that contains some unencrypted information. Information that you see or enter on this page could easily be read by a third party." < 1263162643 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, as long as FOO is purely alphanumeric and starts with a letter < 1263162647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does %0 work for "this program" in DOS? < 1263162649 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: isn't that IE's warning message? < 1263162650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: tons of pages do that < 1263162654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, firefox < 1263162655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: stop whining < 1263162661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not like perl have some password-stealing conspiracy < 1263162668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I know one no other login pages doing that < 1263162672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or registration ones < 1263162676 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wikipedia's did for ages < 1263162678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody gives a fuck < 1263162680 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do know of pages once you are logged in < 1263162686 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, s/nobody/ehird/ < 1263162687 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is, the bit you enter the password in is encrypted < 1263162693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I don't give a fuck. < 1263162696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, doesn't* < 1263162698 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so unless you're really scared of someone trying to MITM-interface-spoof you... < 1263162699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well < 1263162706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :point is you shouldn't speak for everyone < 1263162709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't care, ais523 doesn't care, and you're the only person anal enough to care. < 1263162722 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I care to the extent that sort of message is actually a security risk < 1263162726 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know ais523 doesn't care because he's explaining why it isn't a problem to you. < 1263162729 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is, not very much < 1263162741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so does %0 work in batch files as "this program"? < 1263162743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION prepares mailinator
< 1263162752 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ... < 1263162761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl: Spammer extraordinaires < 1263162766 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'm not sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't < 1263162771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure Larry Wall is too Christian to spam you < 1263162774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, are email addresses public < 1263162783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: can you use them in strings? < 1263162786 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as on bugzilla < 1263162791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: They're mangled, I believe. < 1263162793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo AT bar DOT org < 1263162795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1263162797 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it interpolates fine, I think < 1263162804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, won't help much < 1263162806 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the issue is more getting things to not interpolate, in DOS < 1263162821 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are quoting rules but they make no sense and I can't remember them < 1263162852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :REM ; if (0) { < 1263162854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl "%0" < 1263162855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :REM ; } < 1263162857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :print "Hello, world!\n"; < 1263162858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tada. < 1263162874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now to make it work with a shebang and for shebangless systems. < 1263162884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... < 1263162891 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the perl "%0" might fail there in Perl < 1263162899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's in an if (0) < 1263162914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to Perl, it looks like this: < 1263162915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :REM; < 1263162917 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (0) { < 1263162919 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :String found where operator expected at t.pl line 2, near "perl "%0"" < 1263162920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : perl "%0" REM; < 1263162921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1263162925 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Huh. < 1263162927 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qsort((int[]){5, 50, 1, 0}, 4, sizeof(int), lambda(int, (const void *x, const void *y), *x < *y?-1:*x > *y?1:0)); < 1263162930 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whooo. < 1263162931 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :followed by a missing semicolon error < 1263162931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!/usr/bin/env perl will just try to execute the program #!/usr/bin/env with argument perl in batch, right? < 1263162937 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's parsing perl as "perl" < 1263162942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Now make it work with typeof, bitch. < 1263162945 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you get "perl" "%0" REM < 1263162946 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Ah. < 1263162947 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes no sense < 1263162947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Easy to fix. < 1263162963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%{ is a string in perl, right? < 1263162964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or a list < 1263162971 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's a dereferencing operator < 1263162975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%q{ then < 1263162976 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for hash references < 1263162977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to } < 1263162983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :REM ; %q{ < 1263162985 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl "%0" < 1263162986 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that's a slice of the hash called q < 1263162986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :REM %} < 1263162993 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: lambda((x, y), void *x; void *y;, *x < *y?-1:*x>*y?1:0) < 1263162996 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try without the % sign < 1263163000 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :REM ; q{ < 1263163004 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :REM } < 1263163007 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that works I think < 1263163008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :REM ; q{ < 1263163010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl "%0" < 1263163011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :REM } < 1263163021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: #!/usr/bin/env perl executes the program #!/usr/bin/env in batch, right? < 1263163026 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I think so < 1263163029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: NO :| < 1263163041 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(is #! a legal DOS directory name?) < 1263163045 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Only way for it to work with more than 1 argument that I can think of. < 1263163048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, it'll error out anyway. < 1263163056 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: does x || y work in batch? < 1263163059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do I need to do something else < 1263163062 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, you must be kidding < 1263163067 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first, you run a test command < 1263163071 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you use "if errorlevel" < 1263163074 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's much nicer to just write the return type. < 1263163075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah :P < 1263163078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: BAH < 1263163084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, forget shebangs, I'll just make it work in sh-doing systems < 1263163087 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And... C-like. < 1263163088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, wait no < 1263163092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that breaks if you don't run it from a shell < 1263163098 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, as C-like as *lambda* can be. < 1263163114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: @echo off disables echoing future lines before executing them < 1263163125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: does that disable error messages too? < 1263163149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION gets an idea
< 1263163153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does x;y work in batch? < 1263163185 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I don't think so < 1263163210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@REM ; q{ < 1263163211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@perl "%0" < 1263163213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1263163214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :print "Hello, world!\n"; < 1263163220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :↑ A silent version of my batch-perl-spawner. < 1263163252 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Huh. Nested functions aren't on the stack. < 1263163280 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. Not necessarily. < 1263163283 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though they might be. < 1263163288 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1263163296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does perl -S do, anyway? < 1263163358 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1263163379 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GCC *claims* that if you call them after the containing function exits, all hell breaks loose. < 1263163383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, I'm loving this < 1263163387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this will be the best polyglot ever < 1263163404 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The assembly it outputs sticks the nested functions inside the text section. < 1263163407 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With mangled names. < 1263163411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, will you make it work for sh systems too? < 1263163428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Shebang, sh, batch and perl will all be handled. < 1263163442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Batch might output an error before running the program, though. < 1263163449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, something like < 1263163451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, okay that's impressive. Can't think of how you will handle #! in batch < 1263163453 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the DOS side of it seems to work (thanks, DOSbox!) < 1263163453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!/usr/bin/env perl < 1263163455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Command not found < 1263163457 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I'm not sure about the %0 < 1263163465 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It *seems* that if you simply don't refer to things in the outer function, you've got proper (but horribly inefficient) lambda. < 1263163478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Meh. < 1263163480 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: no, because the function is stored on the stack < 1263163484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that one doesn't pass on arguments with batch < 1263163485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no it isn't < 1263163487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I can see < 1263163491 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Not in the assembly I am looking at. < 1263163493 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: oh, right, just the trampoline < 1263163501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what's the batch for "all my arguments"? < 1263163520 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, %* I think < 1263163522 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not sure < 1263163544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1263163550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does eval "2+2", blah work in Perl? < 1263163557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't have to work at runtime, actually, so I'm sure it does work < 1263163557 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1263163580 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not %* it seems < 1263163614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah I can't find where to file a bug at that rt.perl.org thingy < 1263163633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok, I need your help: can you make "@REM 2>/dev/null" (without the quotes) valid Perl without sacrificing its sh semantics? < 1263163637 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ^ < 1263163653 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm not sure either < 1263163687 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Here's how my GCC is pushing the address of a nested function: movl $comp_int.1972, %eax < 1263163696 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ah, must be optimising < 1263163700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then, such a fucked up user interface, I'm not going to care < 1263163705 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's not much of a lambda if you're referring to outside the function < 1263163705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's for a greater good!!! < 1263163708 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'm thinking < 1263163716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it's for the greater good < 1263163716 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: -O0. < 1263163723 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pity "null" isn't a legal regex modifier < 1263163729 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And passing it to qsort. < 1263163731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah: < 1263163733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-S < 1263163735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes Perl use the PATH environment variable to search for the program (unless the name of the program contains directory separators). < 1263163747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: can you try echo %0 in dosbox for me to see if %0 works? < 1263163771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ooh, wait < 1263163772 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems not, you get a literal %0 < 1263163776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@REM / 2>/dev/null < 1263163790 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about this: @REM = q= 2/dev/null #= < 1263163798 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that isn't valid perl < 1263163812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, but it's close < 1263163823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that breaks the sh semantics < 1263163831 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, it's lambda, just not a closure. < 1263163834 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ perl -ce '@REM = q= 2/dev/null #=' < 1263163835 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-e syntax OK < 1263163835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it must run a command starting with @REM and do 2>/dev/null < 1263163844 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it does do that < 1263163848 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"2/dev/null" < 1263163849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it doesn't. < 1263163849 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, forgot the > < 1263163855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it valid with the >? < 1263163858 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ perl -ce '@REM = q= 2>/dev/null #=' < 1263163860 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-e syntax OK < 1263163862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay. < 1263163865 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, it's inside a string literal < 1263163873 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the entire statement is rather meaningless, but who cares < 1263163884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't matter < 1263163886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1263163888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that breaks in sh < 1263163892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of the trailing #= < 1263163896 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a comment in sh < 1263163900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, ;#= is < 1263163902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's #= < 1263163905 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can put it on the next line if you prefer < 1263163909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, not acceptable; I need to have || right after it < 1263163916 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No I can't, every line must start with @REM < 1263163921 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, you can just put the = in an arbitrary place later in the program < 1263163922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, # is a comment even on same line isn't it? < 1263163927 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@REM = q= 2>/dev/null < 1263163932 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :followed by an = somewhere much later < 1263163937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, okay < 1263163939 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just so long as there are no other = signs in-between < 1263163940 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ echo foo #bar < 1263163940 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo < 1263163942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ^ < 1263163953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that means I don't get to use my awesome hack though < 1263163958 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is? < 1263163962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eval 'exec perl blah;#', < 1263163967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@REM if $running_under_some_shell; < 1263163975 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1263163985 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't the eval break under DOS? < 1263163988 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, have fun with newline conventions < 1263163991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, because it's part of < 1263163998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what does @REM mean to perl? < 1263164000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@REM 2>/dev/null || eval ... < 1263164005 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the array called REM < 1263164005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: array variable REM < 1263164008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1263164019 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or in perl5, to be precise, "these REM" < 1263164028 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because perl infers what sort of variable you mean from context < 1263164035 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's "something containing multiple elements REM" < 1263164041 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which in the abstract, must mean the array < 1263164042 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: So, yeah. I've got a non-closure lambda. < 1263164062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, is that well defined behaviour? < 1263164062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://sprunge.us/LRfW < 1263164066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for gcc < 1263164072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if "%0" %* did what it should, this would work < 1263164081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a batch file < 1263164093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would output "#!/usr/bin/env perl" and then an error before running the program, however < 1263164094 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's *contrary to the documentation* when returning one of these lambdas. < 1263164094 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I think the semantics of % are different inside and out, just for fun < 1263164098 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :batch files are evil < 1263164101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In sh, it should work perfectly < 1263164105 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it works perfectly according to the generated code. < 1263164107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In perl, it should work perfectly < 1263164117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well then, bad idea, depending on platform < 1263164119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conclusion: I am a genius as soon as we can get "%0" and %* working. < 1263164131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, iirc trampolines are messier on RISC in general < 1263164131 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The documentation claims it's on the stack. < 1263164140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, it might be < 1263164142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, it can be made shorter < 1263164148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, if a trampoline is generated < 1263164151 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can combine the two qs < 1263164160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, a trampoline is on the stack. It may be that none is required < 1263164162 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get rid of lines 3 and 4, and change line 6 to =; < 1263164164 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: When would one be generated? < 1263164174 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION would like to try to force on.
< 1263164176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!/usr/bin/env perl < 1263164176 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/on/one/ < 1263164177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@REM =q= 2>/dev/null||exec /usr/bin/env perl -S $0 ${1+"$@"} < 1263164179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@REM =;q{ < 1263164180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@perl -S "%0" %* < 1263164182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1263164183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yep < 1263164186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, either when it is needed, or always. I would suspect it may vary between versions < 1263164187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1263164188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're right < 1263164190 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do not need to change the q delimeter from = to { < 1263164196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, so when you need a closure I believe < 1263164203 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It certainly isn't "always"... < 1263164207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!/usr/bin/env perl < 1263164208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, try using some variable from outside it < 1263164208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@REM =q= 2>/dev/null||exec /usr/bin/env perl -S $0 ${1+"$@"} < 1263164210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@perl -S "%0" %* < 1263164211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := < 1263164213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beautiful < 1263164215 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I picked = as it has no special meaning to the shell, but's a legal delimiter for q < 1263164218 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, that isn't a compile time constant < 1263164219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Problems to solve: - "%0" %* - Shebang not erroring < 1263164220 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, is beautiful < 1263164222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, it can't be optimised away < 1263164228 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: K. < 1263164231 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need an @exit after that @perl line, though < 1263164244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other systems can't control that, and need a totally devious construct that will work under any of csh, sh, or Perl, such as the following: < 1263164246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1. eval '(exit $?0)' && eval 'exec perl -wS $0 ${1+"$@"}' < 1263164247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2. & eval 'exec /usr/bin/perl -wS $0 $argv:q' < 1263164249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3. if $running_under_some_shell; < 1263164250 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you two trying to do? provide a line that perl ignores but batch causes to be executed in perl? < 1263164250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: csh, eh? < 1263164251 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION does s/1/argc/ in his test.
< 1263164252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, also, note that it might work differently on different targets. Like ARM, x86. x86-64, SPARC, PCC < 1263164253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PPC* < 1263164259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: my current script will execute on: < 1263164261 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: write a perl/sh/bat polyglot that runs the perl program < 1263164267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also with a shebang! < 1263164269 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahah. < 1263164270 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION cries
< 1263164273 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test.c:17: warning: generating trampoline in object (requires executable stack) < 1263164278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also, add csh to that list < 1263164282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to make it work in csh too < 1263164286 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay csh < 1263164290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YAY CSH < 1263164313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this will end in beautiful, beautiful tears < 1263164324 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, it would appear that it is in the text segment if it doesn't close. < 1263164389 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there any other notable shells? < 1263164424 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : $ perl -mysw 'f$env("procedure")' 'p1' 'p2' 'p3' 'p4' 'p5' 'p6' 'p7' 'p8' ! < 1263164425 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : $ exit++ + ++$status != 0 and $exit = $status = undef; < 1263164435 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ perlrun's syntax on how to do the same thing under the VMS shell < 1263164435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what the fuck < 1263164442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god < 1263164457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, remember OS/1 < 1263164457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl/bat/sh/csh/vms/shebang polyglot < 1263164459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1263164459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to die now < 1263164459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS/2 < 1263164462 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's OS/2 too < 1263164466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, I'd prefer to forget it < 1263164471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl/bat/sh/csh/vms/os2/shebang polyglot < 1263164473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION weeps
< 1263164476 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it must be doable, surely < 1263164479 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a little hard to test < 1263164484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It must be doable, unfortuantely. < 1263164488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*unfortunately < 1263164503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what is your current one < 1263164512 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C is a language with first-class functions that aren't closures. >:D < 1263164522 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : This incantation is a bit much to remember, but Perl will display it for you if you say "perl "-V:startperl"". < 1263164529 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: no, it has first-class function pointers < 1263164530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: My current one is what I sprunged plus ais523's modifications < 1263164534 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the functions themselves are second-class < 1263164534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I closed Emacs to kill the beast. < 1263164556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go has both first-class functions AND first-class function pointers. < 1263164558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Take that. < 1263164564 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: But, but lambda(int, (int x, int y), x*y) ! < 1263164564 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ perl "-V:startperl" < 1263164565 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :startperl='#!/usr/bin/perl'; < 1263164568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what happened when using trampoline? < 1263164576 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boring < 1263164582 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I lost track of it < 1263164587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ask ais523 < 1263164592 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he can do the mods to my latest version < 1263164595 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"I need to go home" < 1263164596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CAN'T HE AIS523 < 1263164598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1263164601 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Oh, it works just fine so long as the lambda is only used when the defining function is on the stack. < 1263164614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm? < 1263164620 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GCC also warns you when it generates a trampoline. < 1263164627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay < 1263164727 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A closure, hence, can easily be implemented in C: struct closure {void *function; void *free_variables} < 1263164785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, wtf? < 1263164791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash is executing .bashrc but not .bash_profile < 1263164792 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, don't forget MPW and MacPerl < 1263164797 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION shall soon be writing some bloody crazy C code.
< 1263164818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, see man bash. I end up sourcing files are required from each other -_- < 1263164834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, short story bash_profile is for login shells < 1263164838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bashrc for normal ones < 1263164850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suggestion: source .bashrc from .bash_profile < 1263164879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :further suggestion: if your distro doesn't do this, read man page to figure out how files in /etc/ are handled < 1263164897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the relevant section is INVOCATION < 1263164910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can't make bashrc include profile because profile includes bashrc < 1263164910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: But I want profile to be loaded < 1263164910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when just bashrc would normally be < 1263164912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My distro has . ~/.bashrc in .profile and no .bash_profile < 1263164951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, interactive shell? < 1263164984 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : When bash is invoked as an interactive login shell, or as a non-interactive shell with the --login option, it first reads and executes com� < 1263164984 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : mands from the file /etc/profile, if that file exists. After reading that file, it looks for ~/.bash_profile, ~/.bash_login, and ~/.pro� < 1263164984 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : file, in that order, and reads and executes commands from the first one that exists and is readable. < 1263164994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll just set up all the files so they all do . ~/.profile < 1263164994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have everything in there < 1263164995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1263164997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : When an interactive shell that is not a login shell is started, bash reads and executes commands from ~/.bashrc, if that file exists. This < 1263164997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : may be inhibited by using the --norc option. < 1263165010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I have all mine read ~/.bashrc instead < 1263165052 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, because bash is the only thing that could read ~/.profile. < 1263165081 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also it behaves differently if invoked as bash or as sh < 1263165095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no, but I have bash specific code in ~/.bashrc < 1263165101 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1263165116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, let me rephrase my question < 1263165135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where should I put environment variables that are applicable outside of shells but should be defined in both login and non-login interactive shells? < 1263165182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, depends on how the distro is set up for sourcing other files < 1263165192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you *will* need to source some file for it < 1263165220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway, if it is exported, that should solve it < 1263165241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you run startx, the env variables will be inherited I believe < 1263165257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird@meson:~$ egrep '(bashrc|bash_profile|profile)' .bashrc .profile < 1263165258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.bashrc:# ~/.bashrc: executed by bash(1) for non-login shells. < 1263165260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.bashrc:# this, if it's already enabled in /etc/bash.bashrc and /etc/profile < 1263165261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.bashrc:# sources /etc/bash.bashrc). < 1263165263 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.profile:# ~/.profile: executed by the command interpreter for login shells. < 1263165264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.profile:# This file is not read by bash(1), if ~/.bash_profile or ~/.bash_login < 1263165266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.profile:# the default umask is set in /etc/profile; for setting the umask < 1263165267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.profile: # include .bashrc if it exists < 1263165269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.profile: if [ -f "$HOME/.bashrc" ]; then < 1263165270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.profile: . "$HOME/.bashrc" < 1263165272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if Debian even thought about how to set it up nicely. < 1263165281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it loads bashrc < 1263165282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yeah, I'm just gonna kill X :-P < 1263165287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1263165287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm? < 1263165292 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1263165341 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.104.236.31 JOIN :#esoteric < 1263165343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you even use startx? Not GDM/KDM or such? < 1263165347 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, night < 1263165349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use KDM, yeah. < 1263165351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: wait, < 1263165352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :→ < 1263165354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should just put them in bashrc < 1263165357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if profile loads bashrc < 1263165369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly. Night →→→ < 1263165448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1263165489 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.104.236.31 JOIN :#esoteric < 1263165686 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1263166722 0 :bsmntbombdood_!n=gavin@174-16-206-237.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1263166886 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test.c:8: error: void value not ignored as it ought to be < 1263166889 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FFFUUUU. < 1263166896 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1263166934 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you look into the void, the void looks back into you < 1263166974 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am never using a void value that I can find... < 1263167001 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately, GCC's line numbers are monumentally unuseful when it comes to macros. < 1263167098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :run cpp on it :P < 1263167127 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not helpful at all. < 1263167137 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you know that CPP omits newlines? < 1263167312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1263167464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Behold: Go has both first-class functions and first-class function pointers. And they are both closures. http://sprunge.us/KHOM < 1263167477 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I have a somewhat unwieldy C closure definition. < 1263167488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Don't you wish you were programming in Go now? < 1263167489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1263167491 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(return type must be a pointer.) < 1263167515 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(oh, and you need to be explicit about what you're closing. *Really* explicit.) < 1263167537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :S'ok, PHP 6 requires that too XD < 1263167547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Oi. Drool over http://sprunge.us/KHOM. < 1263167571 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is spiffy. < 1263167675 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/UViC < 1263167684 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1263167691 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a painful fib function! < 1263167725 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/DUSj lambda.h < 1263167750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can see the C commitee accepting that as a standard heater for C11. < 1263167764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you'll have to rename it stdlam.h, and rename lambda to _LAMBDA. < 1263167769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It would be _Lambda, but it's a macro.) < 1263167771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No wait. < 1263167772 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that a compliment or an insult? :P < 1263167776 0 :bsmntbombdood__!n=gavin@174-16-223-138.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1263167777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isalpha is a macro too < 1263167779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, _Lambda < 1263167795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And closure would have to become _Closure, but stdlam.h can do #define closure _Closure. < 1263167816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :call would have to become _Call, and it would be a macro. < 1263167822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, it is a macro. < 1263167823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever. < 1263167854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Make one that actually closes over something. < 1263167876 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: The example I pasted is closing over the fib closure. < 1263167903 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone know how to set an alarm with kde? < 1263167924 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could, of course, make its closing a bit more substantial. Un momento. < 1263167957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Close over multiple variables in separate locations. < 1263167959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll wait here. < 1263167978 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A suggested (simple) example? < 1263168035 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1263168162 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll be honest, blocks >>> that shit < 1263168185 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm not a huge fan of blocks < 1263168190 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Yes, blocks have syntax. < 1263168217 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is __LAMBDA__ anyways? < 1263168307 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A function. < 1263168326 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what function? < 1263168333 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the magic behind it? < 1263168371 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Expand the macro. < 1263168545 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where's it defined? < 1263168568 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not see __LAMBDA__ anywhere; I only see it used in lambda.h < 1263168692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: __LAMBDA__ is defined as a function on that line. < 1263168696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is this so hard for people to grasp? < 1263168711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :params = (int x) < 1263168715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :void* __LAMBDA__ (int x) < 1263168716 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1263168716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ < 1263168718 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1263168718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1263168719 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, btw < 1263168719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1263168724 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :__LAMBDA__ is reserved < 1263168725 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't use it < 1263168816 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, what if you don't want to take a closure in your lambda? < 1263168838 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, does the closure actually close anything? < 1263168910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a compiler extension, practically < 1263168914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so he can use what he wants < 1263168916 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it only works on gcc < 1263168923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus it's non-portable code < 1263168930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus he can do whatever he wants as long as it compiles < 1263168939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: use my FN if you don't want to close < 1263168943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1263168950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it closes a single pointer < 1263168974 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the pointer to the closure itself < 1263168984 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just for fib, so it can call itself. < 1263169002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of closures, I just thought of CONS Should Not CONS Its Arguments, Part II: Cheney on the M.T.A., and remembered it is cool. < 1263169016 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but how else can you invoke fib? < 1263169021 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than by call(fib, args) < 1263169027 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which calls fib with fib as the first argument < 1263169052 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just give me cactus stacks in C < 1263169073 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'll be happy < 1263169109 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: http://sprunge.us/hFjH < 1263169112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the closed variable is passed as an argument < 1263169112 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A memoizing fib. < 1263169117 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, closed pointer, really < 1263169124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yep, C standards committee material < 1263169150 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ok < 1263169158 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugly as all hell, but it is in fact lambda and closures. < 1263169172 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep :( < 1263169185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Make a tail recursive fact. < 1263169186 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd disagree about that being C standards committee material < 1263169188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:D < 1263169189 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except it is < 1263169194 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some evil and truly strange reason < 1263169211 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Hrm. < 1263169231 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also, blocks have been proposed. I shudder to think of _Block) < 1263169251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION decides to come up with a language like REBOL but even crazier in its parenlessness
< 1263169259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(All REBOL functions are fixed arity, so it's prefix notation without parens.) < 1263169261 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: re our discussion about functional programming to me; I think it's simply because functional programming is higher-level than OOP (at least, in its purest form) < 1263169269 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and type systems are orthagonal to both < 1263169276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that excludes variadic functions. < 1263169281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: *orthogonal < 1263169283 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So: < 1263169310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When we come across a function name, we execute it. The function can execute a certain primitive function, say NEXT-ARGUMENT, to cause another expression to be read. < 1263169353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This doesn't let you have foo 1 and foo 1 2 and foo 1 2 3, but it does let you do printf. < 1263169362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's as free-form as C variadic functions, which is good enough. < 1263169423 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AHHHH < 1263169555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/beNe < 1263169583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The great thing is that you could have CRAZY 1 2 3, and CRAZY takes either one, two or three arguments depending on a random number. < 1263169584 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/EVHC < 1263169587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1263169598 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1263169602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Not tail recursive, you failure. :D < 1263169604 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is not :D ehird < 1263169614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Yes it fucking is! >:( < 1263169621 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: It would be tail recursive if I didn't need to use bloody pointers. < 1263169622 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah, not tail recursive < 1263169629 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Actually, I could cast to and from. XD < 1263169630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the cool thing is, since we just concatenate to sequence code, CRAZY 1 2 3 is actually either < 1263169639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(crazy 1) 2 3 → 3 < 1263169644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(crazy 1 2) 3 → 3 < 1263169652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(crazy 1 2 3) → (crazy 1 2 3) < 1263169656 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't that depend on what crazy returns? < 1263169663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: that isn't application < 1263169665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just < 1263169667 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1263169667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crazy(1);2;3 < 1263169671 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was using Scheme notation < 1263169673 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_O < 1263169679 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is crazy < 1263169682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, so, add side effects to CRAZY, and we have the MOST AWESOMEST FUNCTION EVER. < 1263169701 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't you do that in a currying language to some extent? < 1263169703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Next, attempt to perform static analysis on this language. < 1263169731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Well, sort of. But it'd still have to be using the function call syntax no matter what "arguments" it takes. < 1263169736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With CRAZY, we could do this: < 1263169737 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/eJcM < 1263169740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CRAZY 1 2 < 1263169743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRINT "Hello, world!" < 1263169746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1263169750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's assume crazy takes 1 or 2 arguments < 1263169752 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CRAZY 1 < 1263169755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRINT "Hello, world!" < 1263169756 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: still fail < 1263169757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is either < 1263169761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crazy(1); print("Hello, world!") < 1263169762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1263169765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crazy(1, print("Hello, world!")) < 1263169767 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: How so? < 1263169777 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not tail recursive < 1263169781 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1263169789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't rely on GCC to do TCO, dude. < 1263169795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1263169798 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tail recursion requires return call(...) < 1263169807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That also. < 1263169811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that also relies on GCC's TCO. < 1263169814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is verboten. < 1263169822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inline assembly, however, is not. < 1263169827 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Efff-you. < 1263169829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JMP to that fucker! < 1263169886 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Imma not tail recurse that. < 1263169896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define RECURSE(me) __asm__("jmp " # me) < 1263169926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int fact(int n, int x) { if (n == 0) return x else { x *= n; RECURSE(fact); } } < 1263169937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*return x; < 1263169956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if that actually works. < 1263170118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :def fact n { < 1263170120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if n < 2 < 1263170121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 < 1263170123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : else < 1263170124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : n * fact n - 1 < 1263170126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1263170128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :↑ Factorial in my crazy REBOL-with-varargs! < 1263170136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :def is variadic; it keeps readin' and readin' arguments until it finds a code block. < 1263170154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Oh, didn't I mention? There's also NEXT-ARGUMENT-UNEVALUATED, which lets you write macro-esque things, except at runtime.) < 1263170175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Of course, if you have POOP + 2 2 it'll get +, 2, 2 if it doesn't evaluate them, since capturing the arguments requires calling the function.) < 1263170203 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n * fact n - 1 works because there's no operator precedence. :D < 1263170337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and if you want a fun exercise: Implement tail-call elimination for this language. < 1263170341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I believe this is impossible.) < 1263170494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could implement it by transforming F A B C D into F [A B C D], where [] is a list. < 1263170502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then F does NEXT-ARGUMENT, making it into F A [B C D]. < 1263170513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At the end, F just evaluates its list argument as a continuation. < 1263170526 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that would work for tail-calls, as the continuation would be empty at the end. < 1263171576 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I've got a function that generates a memoizing fib with an array of a specified size... < 1263171579 0 :bsmntbombdood__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :bsmntbombdood < 1263171594 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for obvious reasons, now garbage-collected) < 1263172115 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1263172385 0 :zeotrope!n=user@bas3-kitchener06-1096642390.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1263172443 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/cJAF < 1263172558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does not contain tail recursion; would not purchase again. < 1263172574 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shush you. < 1263172614 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I see no reason why pointers stop tail recursion < 1263172615 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just saying < 1263172749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tail recursion is impossible in C without inline assembly. < 1263172754 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure that, with how I've been writing this, GCC isn't going to tail recurse it, anyways. Since it'd be perfectly valid to replace the closed value in the lambda's closure, thereby making this not actually recurse... < 1263172826 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Constant folding. < 1263172852 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Requires link-time optimisation. < 1263172888 0 :yodbot!n=fda@c-98-229-131-166.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1263172952 0 :yodbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's shakin? < 1263172956 0 :yodbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone chattin? < 1263173017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1263173023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know what this channel is about? < 1263173034 0 :yodbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm guessing I do.... do you? < 1263173042 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you think this channel is about? < 1263173052 0 :yodbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I figure esotericism < 1263173056 0 :yodbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about you? < 1263173075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are wrong. < 1263173082 0 :yodbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do tell < 1263173089 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least he's not a markov bot :D < 1263173090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hint: Freenode is mainly for channels about programming. < 1263173090 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1263173092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or open source projects. < 1263173101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You would be unlikely to find an esotericism channel here. < 1263173122 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that you would be first to try, mind < 1263173145 0 :yodbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, they have linguistics, they have philosophy, etc., so clearly not just programming < 1263173160 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made a program called DDD based on a code on Microsoft's web-site. It is like SUBST but more advanced. Still, it wouldn't compile with Microsoft's compiler or GNU compiler, until I added in two lines and then it would compile on GNU, and it does work. Also, I did modify it a bit. < 1263173166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the linguistics/philosophy/etc channels are accepted devians. < 1263173169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*deviations < 1263173174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only because it'd spill into other channels otherwise. < 1263173186 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, this channel is about esoteric programming languages and, also, esotericism is bullshit. < 1263173194 0 :yodbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps you're overstating your point < 1263173201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sheesh, there's one born every five minutes... and they immediately come into here. < 1263173207 0 :yodbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and maybe, just maybe, you're blowing hot air < 1263173207 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird is the resident most militant atheist < 1263173208 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I allows you to associate drive letters and DOS device names with NT device names, maybe they should make up something like this in ReactOS < 1263173218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Hey, I'm not. < 1263173225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But esotericism *is* bullshit. < 1263173228 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I am agnostic though, but in a different way than other agnostic < 1263173243 0 :yodbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION gives ehird something to hold in his gas
< 1263173269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, we do have an esotericism channel < 1263173274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yodbot: /j #1,000 < 1263173291 0 :yodbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird /j #eatmyshorts < 1263173297 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit < 1263173303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I WILL DEFEAT YOU :D < 1263173325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yodbot: If /join and /part are in a boat and /join jumps out, who's left? < 1263173346 0 :yodbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries to decide whether it's worth paying attention, and decides likely not
< 1263173368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah! < 1263173393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must clearly revert to the Nuclear Option, and _actually talk about esolangs_. < 1263173394 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yodbot: If "C closures" have any meaning to you, then stick around. Otherwise, go elsewhere and enjoy your bullshit. < 1263173416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: So hey, your Unlambda interpreter in INTERCAL. < 1263173420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it have any restrictions? < 1263173430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Would the JMP tail recursion actually work with your closures? < 1263173435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's jmp *ptr, after all. < 1263173441 0 :yodbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION yawns
< 1263173444 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1263173446 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf_txtgen We never actually talk about esoteric languages anymore :P < 1263173453 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :549 +++++++++++++++[>++++++++>++++++>++>+++++++<<<<-]>>---.++++++++++++++.>++.>+++++.<<.<--.>.<----.>>.>-------------.++.<<<++.+.>>>--.<<+++++++..<++++.>>.<<-----.>>>.<<.-.>.>.+.<<++++.++++++.-.>.>+++.<<-.----.<.>----------.<--.>>>++++.<<--.>.>+++.<+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.>++.<<++++.<+++.>>.<.--.<--.>---------------------------------------------------------------------.>.>.<<<++++++.------------.++.+++.------- < 1263173454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yodbot: You can't yawn at us for being on-topic. < 1263173458 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Hrm. Actually, yeah, it would. < 1263173460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Talk about esolangs! (NOT linguistics) < 1263173465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is urgent :D < 1263173466 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can actually tail-recurse, that is. < 1263173471 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes we do esolangs but not always < 1263173476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: JMP thisfunction is tail recursion < 1263173481 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1263173481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming you set the parameters right beforehand < 1263173487 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Yes. < 1263173508 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird < 1263173509 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1263173518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Well, okay. < 1263173524 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd get compiled as (operations to fetch function pointer from closed); jmp $the_ptr < 1263173525 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want an eso lang that is nothing but special forms < 1263173534 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which i suppose is what BF is < 1263173536 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it might just be a tail call rather than a tail recursion. < 1263173543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Shortest musing ever! < 1263173552 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: restrictions? well there is a memory limit, i don't quite recall but somewhere <= 32 bits < 1263173563 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Generic tail calls wouldn't work < 1263173571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: 32 bits or less of memory? yuk yuk < 1263173575 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You were discussing linguistics and ambiguity, but maybe I should make up a text-adventure game based on ambiguous writing and you have to figure it out by trying different commands, it can be called "Ambiguity Game" < 1263173576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Because of the parameter locations < 1263173576 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, if you want to recurse, you can just call __LAMBDA__. < 1263173578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1263173580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could do < 1263173585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myfirstparam=x;mysecondparam=y; < 1263173588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as they were the same typs < 1263173590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*types < 1263173593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that'd map to (x,y, < 1263173595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1263173606 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: < 2^32 cells. sheesh. < 1263173634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The beast has been crippled! It cannot talk. < 1263173635 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except it's probably not exactly that, because of the weird addressing < 1263173639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Great work, everyone. < 1263173650 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's make ambiguous writing game!! < 1263173653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Let's! < 1263173696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...which is ambiguous in itself. < 1263173705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's either "let us", or "that which belongs to Let". < 1263173708 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1263173720 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can be, in that way < 1263173761 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I mean very ambiguous writing, such as: Charities for poor people and monsters with names starting with "A" < 1263173792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My brain has hung in its parenthesisation routine. < 1263173796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You broke my brain. :( < 1263173802 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes you don't know how many things in the sentence each word refers to unless you put brackets or something like that < 1263173823 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can I break your brain if you can still write on here that it is broke? < 1263173861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My brain is multitasking. < 1263173866 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1263173868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other threads will die out soon enough, and I will with them too. < 1263173954 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: these monsters are flying purple people eaters, i assume < 1263173980 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can assume whatever you want, when I wrote this sentence I had nothing specific in mind, I wrote it for the only purpose to be ambiguous < 1263174045 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's a point too, if you want to know what the words in "flying purple people eaters" also can be refer to what group of other words, so therefore you can do that if you want < 1263174075 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that's a *woosh* right there < 1263174082 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1263174091 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: **whoosh* < 1263174122 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit i was somehow thinking whoosh was incorrect, and correcting it < 1263174150 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, if that's what you want < 1263174179 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: anyway the point is my assumption is ambiguous too < 1263174197 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's OK too < 1263174223 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Soon you are going to make it everything like Hofstadter wrote a GEB book with some things levels all mix and stuff < 1263174265 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On another note: Finally I received a Washizu Mahjong Tiles < 1263174270 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be assuming i wasn't too lazy, which is _rather_ far-fetched < 1263174291 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1263174298 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i never finished GEB < 1263174305 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1263174459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I loved the ending dialogue of G.E.B. < 1263174462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worth reading for that alone. < 1263174521 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Dear God I could break people's heads. I could write with continuation-passing style in C. < 1263174546 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would probably be very painful. < 1263174552 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What with the "explicit closing" and all. < 1263174612 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote ... Dear God I could break people's heads. ... < 1263174616 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :110| ... Dear God I could break people's heads. ... < 1263174645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: CPS in C is what Cheney on the M.T.A. does < 1263174652 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: MTA? < 1263174665 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the prosecution rests. < 1263174676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://home.pipeline.com/~hbaker1/CheneyMTA.html < 1263174683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only the single most awesome Scheme→C compilation mechanism. < 1263174689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Appel's method avoids making a large number of small trampoline bounces by occasionally jumping off the Empire State Building." < 1263174708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: tl;dr full TCO, uses C functions and arguments, call-with-current-continuation is O(1) due to using continuation-passing style < 1263174721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, function calls are fast < 1263174722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no trampoline < 1263174770 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Success < 1263174828 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Reboot" < 1263174830 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Ah, that. < 1263174844 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. That is totally awesome. < 1263174955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://home.pipeline.com/~hbaker1/cboyer13.c < 1263174962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A hand-translated Scheme benchmark using that method. < 1263174971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Choice quote: /* Closure types. (I don't trust compilers to optimize vector refs.) */ < 1263174979 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1263174980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Circa 1994.) < 1263174992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Includes a closure type pretty much exactly like yours. < 1263175036 0 :snaggle!n=fda@c-98-229-131-166.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1263175072 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, basically what I've got, except with smarter code using it. < 1263175109 0 :yodbot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1263175221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/* Define tag values. (I don't trust compilers to optimize enums.) */ < 1263175225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now *that's* just paranoia < 1263175275 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I should make up the program to retrieve the quotes in HackEgo, so tha I can make a list < 1263175337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo did that. < 1263175382 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can make it up the macro in IRC, using CRISC < 1263175525 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, PRIVMSG HackEgo :`quote and the number, and then check for the line with :HackEgo at the start and PRIVMSG zzo38 and then lgo those to a file < 1263175529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just parse the data file < 1263175530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help < 1263175531 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ < 1263175540 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where is the data file < 1263175547 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it at the URL given there < 1263175564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/393844a8543b/quotes/quote.db < 1263175567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's SQLite or something < 1263175569 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1263175589 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be more better < 1263175641 0 :jix!n=jix@cyb0rg.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1263175665 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1263175676 0 :jix!n=jix@cyb0rg.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1263175809 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There, that was easy, just wget and then select * from quotes; and it work. < 1263175840 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo select * from quotes; | sqlite3 quote.db > quote.txt < 1263175897 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to say "you're using Linux" now, but then I realised you had a ; outside of quotes. < 1263175900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Must be a port. < 1263175907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*"you're using Linux now?", < 1263175942 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it is the Windows command-line. Although I can still use bash, too, with MinGW < 1263176012 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows command line. lulz < 1263176017 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do things like this too sometimes for downloading files from gopher, just echo|nc> is good enough and it works, both on Windows and on Linux < 1263176144 0 :snaggle!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1263176219 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 111 < 1263176220 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1263176236 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@173-14-241-136-washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1263176302 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1263176575 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1263176849 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1263178829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1263179054 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1263179216 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1263179217 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1263179217 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1263179230 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1263179230 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1263179230 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1263179231 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1263179308 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1263179308 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1263179308 0 :mtve!n=nnnnnmtv@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric < 1263179308 0 :Ilari!n=user@88.113.39.59 JOIN :#esoteric < 1263179386 0 :uorygl!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1263179386 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1263179386 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@wikipedia/PuzzletChung JOIN :#esoteric < 1263179781 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1263179795 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The PDF format is all mixed up and has some bad ideas < 1263179829 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 wins the obvious-statement-of-the-year award. < 1263179969 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some things that I think are bad in PDF include (but not limited to): Interactive content, animation, external hyperlinks, user/owner passwords, restrictioins, file attachments, authentication, and submitting information to web servers from viewing the document. < 1263180076 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore, a better format should be made. There are also other things, too, that could be improved with such formats < 1263180146 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of the good features of PDF are: Bookmark list, and internal hyperlinks. < 1263180665 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do we fix it? < 1263180783 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DVI? < 1263180812 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also see http://simulacrum.dorm.duke.edu/allyourgoogle.svg < 1263180964 0 :jpc!n=jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1263180980 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Take Postscript. Add hyprelinks and bookmarks. < 1263180981 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fin. < 1263181088 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can it be made a binary format? Also, can it be made not requiring full program language feature? (for simplification) And maybe other things might be add/remove too < 1263181134 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DVI has many things missing such as colors and images and line drawings < 1263181157 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :While PDF has too many things added < 1263181168 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Postscript can be made a binary format. < 1263181177 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See: the Postscript subset of PDF. < 1263181200 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I can see < 1263181336 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are a few useful features of PostScript not in PDF, and also vice versa. Such as, tray selection, and object transparency, and also a proper font embedding < 1263181362 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there are too many formats for graphics and stuff in PDF, we need to select just a few of them < 1263181421 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there is one extra feature that might be good, is macros, which cannot call other macros themself, though. < 1263181429 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And now it should be better < 1263181457 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And maybe even some features shared in PostScript/PDF might not be needed, but I don't know everything about PostScript or about PDF < 1263181682 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I think this new format should have only one built-in font (instead of fourteen typefaces that PDF has). The only built-in font, is specified as a fixed-pitch ASCII font, and can be scaled to a given height/width on the page, but has no other specification than that. < 1263182321 0 :Warriphone!n=warripho@c-98-209-136-197.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1263183354 0 :Warriphone!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :uoryfon < 1263186612 0 :uoryfon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1263186902 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1263189240 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1263189302 0 :iamcal!n=cal@c-69-181-46-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1263190184 0 :iamcal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1263190309 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1263191229 0 :FireyFly!n=firefly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1263191758 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1263192800 0 :uoryfon!n=warripho@c-98-209-136-197.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1263194883 0 :FireyFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1263195314 0 :uoryfon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1263195874 0 :soupdragon!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1263196799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1263196800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1263196866 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1263197563 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1263197645 0 :MizardX!n=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1263197894 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1263199885 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1263200080 0 :Guest12622!n=puppy@c-76-120-97-43.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1263200216 0 :Guest12622!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1263200330 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1263200338 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7297750236 < 1263202597 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1263203459 0 :MizardX-!n=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1263203514 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1263203517 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MizardX < 1263204259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dbc, ? < 1263204337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Unfortunately, GCC's line numbers are monumentally unuseful when it comes to macros. <-- try clang or icc, I don't remember if they manage that better, but it is worth a try < 1263205102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq or ehird: next thing to implement in C after lambda would be call/cc :D < 1263205121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone going to try that? < 1263205710 0 :jpc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"I will do freaking anything for a new router." < 1263206368 0 :ais523!n=ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1263206388 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good morning #esoteric < 1263206887 0 :uoryfon!n=warripho@c-98-209-136-197.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1263206941 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :morning, ais523 < 1263207008 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, so much coursework to do by tomorrow... < 1263208493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hi < 1263208505 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1263208790 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, OOXML maintenance is adding the leap year bug back in to OOXML < 1263208842 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://adaptux.com/standards/ooxml-wg4-leap-year-bug-unfix < 1263209124 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have to do nothing by tomorro < 1263209124 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w < 1263209137 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm gonna! MWAHAHAHA < 1263209270 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1263209511 0 :uoryfon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1263210593 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, crazy < 1263210769 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why? < 1263210789 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for Excel compatibility, presumably < 1263210794 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's easier to fix ISO than to fix Excel < 1263210979 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remarkably white weather here today. Even the local newspaper (well, their website, anyway) has a story about the "icy fog" that has coated everything with white fuzz. < 1263211088 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :drama < 1263211718 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is, i can't help looking at the trees, and constantly tripping (pun intended) < 1263211737 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but seriously, they are so beautiful, have i mentioned this? < 1263211886 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have < 1263211890 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty pretty over here < 1263211895 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: "freezing fog" in English < 1263211909 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the nearby canal's mostly frozen over < 1263211917 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there were ducks and geese standing on it looking confused < 1263211930 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then a bit further down there was a break in the ice, and loads of ducks happily swimming around in it < 1263212036 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a warmed-in-winter "riverlet" of sorts near to where I used to live; in winter it's literally duck-covered. I think there's some sort of feeding thing going on there too. < 1263212096 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the field next to the parking area at the place I work currently looks like this: http://zem.fi/g2/d/9731-1/20100111_003.jpg < 1263212124 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, that's great < 1263212132 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks uncannily like fields here in the UK, too < 1263212151 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think most european countries look much the same in the countryside < 1263212163 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, I don't recognise that sort of tree < 1263212189 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's the road: http://zem.fi/g2/d/9728-1/20100111_002.jpg < 1263212228 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And here are the shoes: http://zem.fi/g2/d/9725-1/20100111_001.jpg < 1263212297 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION opens that in Firefox in Firefox
< 1263212312 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :god those trees are beautiful < 1263212313 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(writing chrome://browser/content/browser.xul in the address bar appears to start a recursive browser instance...) < 1263212325 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well they are rather boring in the pic < 1263212325 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the snow falling is beautiful too < 1263212327 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but irc < 1263212329 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*irl < 1263212332 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was staring out of the window, watching the snowflakes fall < 1263212369 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beh, the menu in the inside browser opens things in the outside browser < 1263212380 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do that too, but there's not much structure to rain / snowfall < 1263212400 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't really do anything to the beauty < 1263212417 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlike trees, i usually traverse the graph formed by the branches < 1263212492 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In addition to the shoes there was a strange thing made out of metal wire in one of the lamp posts. < 1263212694 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, tomorrow's seminar thingie schedule has two 15-minute breaks in the morning half; they are labeled as "speculation breaks". (It is a bit unclear whether it means "take a break from all the unfounded speculation" or "a break from the presentations, during which it is possible to speculate".) < 1263212774 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The schedule items also have the following times, in this sequence: 9:00, 9:15, 9:45, 9:15, 9:30, 10:00, 10:30, 10:45, 11:15, 11:45. I wonder how that works exactly. < 1263212828 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps there's a time-warp backwards of one hour after the first three items. < 1263212911 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9:45: Time travel laboratory < 1263212952 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: switch to DST in the middle of them? < 1263212992 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There shouldn't be. At least usually it happens at 03am here, and not in the middle of winter anyway. < 1263213050 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where's HackEgo's qdb? < 1263213104 0 :zeotrope!n=user@bas3-kitchener06-1096642390.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1263213153 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: I think http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/quotes/quote.db is online in the sense that it's current, but it's a binary sqlite3 file, so that's maybe not convenient always. < 1263213168 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mrh, it shouldn't be too hard to parse < 1263213178 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, why did you write that as a self-quote? < 1263213189 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because you asked this earlier, in 2009-11-16. < 1263213195 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just copy-pasted my answer from there. < 1263213198 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1263213204 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember back that long < 1263213213 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Gregor: is HackEgo's qdb online anywhere/ < 1263213292 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You had already gone elsewhere before my answer, also. < 1263213293 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: zzo38 did it yesterday, i believe < 1263213314 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did what? < 1263213315 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-156-198-65.range86-156.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1263213336 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :extracted the quote database with sqlite (?) < 1263213392 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With the sqlite command-line tool, it's pretty trivial. Or with any bindings to the sqlite library. Manually, maybe not quite so. < 1263213411 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sqlite> .restore quote.db sqlite> SELECT * FROM quotes; < 1263213419 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, works fine < 1263213445 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CREATE TABLE quotes (id INTEGER PRIMARY KEY AUTOINCREMENT, quote TEXT); -- as far as databases go, it is not the most complicated one ever. < 1263213577 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1263213612 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you and your fancy computer skills < 1263213688 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those quotes are mostly rubbish < 1263213694 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although some of the fungot ones are good < 1263213694 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523:... in bed." _ _ " i agree, < 1263213700 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1263213700 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc* jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube < 1263213729 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: I really have to doubt your prowess in bed. < 1263213729 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that has the static linker had previously dealt with the models of what distinguishes a function. < 1263214316 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I don't /think/ this is meant to be an esolang, but: http://www.basis.uklinux.net/ursala/sudoku.fun < 1263214497 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it shows several esolang characteristics, such has having an extension that's completely unrelated to the name of the language < 1263214518 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and apparently random-looking strings of letters (which I /think/ are combinators) < 1263214546 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ fun --main=" �&nSiiDPSLrlXS" --decompile < 1263214580 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main = compose(map field((0,&),(&,0)),compose(reduce(cat,0),map compose(distribute,compose(field(&,&),map field(&,0))))) < 1263214642 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it's whitespace-sensitive, how fun < 1263214753 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the syntax for variable names is to put them in double quotes < 1263214917 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uni starts tomorrow! :))))))))))))) < 1263214927 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1263214960 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Recall that crt is the name of the user written library containing the binomial lattice functions, while flo and cop are standard libraries distributed with the compiler." < 1263215000 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the name crt does make sense < 1263215011 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but names are normally more descriptive < 1263215020 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it does make sense? :P < 1263215021 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, "crt" is already taken for "C runtime" on many systems < 1263215029 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: presumably, to someone < 1263215046 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably < 1263215058 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this thing has an insanely mathematical standard library < 1263215068 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1263215076 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :topology and algebra tomorrow! join my happiness! < 1263215090 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it share anything with APL? < 1263215107 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beautiful trees and math, could the year have a better beginning < 1263215122 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It doesn’t take any deliberate contrivance to bump into an undecidable type checking problem. The “type” of the jacobian function is (Æ × Æ) → ((Êm → Ên ) → (Êm → Ên×m )) for the particular values of n and m given by the argument to the function, which needn’t be stated explicitly at compile time." < 1263215132 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zeotrope: the FAQ disclaims any connection < 1263215139 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although there are obvious similarities, or it wouldn't have to < 1263215152 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are those R^n etc? < 1263215172 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :N x N -> R^m x R^n, etc < 1263215178 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm tempted to learn it, still haven't seen a "killer feature" < 1263215214 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more incomprehensible than Perl? < 1263215221 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a great + in this channel < 1263215222 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I program in J :( < 1263215223 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what jacobian function are we talking about? < 1263215252 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: the one that creates a jacobian matrix < 1263215267 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's actually higher-order, it maps a function to a function returning a matrix < 1263215302 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1263215307 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, possibly due to Greenspun's Tenth Law, they just embedded Lisp with a slightly different syntax pre-emptively < 1263215351 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The current release (December 2009) features some notable enhancements, namely a signed integer primitive type, improved reification operators, and various improved implementations of standard library functions." < 1263215359 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love the way a language can completely forget about signed integers, very eso < 1263215396 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Ursala (UniveRSal Applicative LAnguage) is a functional programming language suitable for scientific and numerical computation" < 1263215399 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*cough* < 1263215415 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why the cough? < 1263215426 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no signed integers? < 1263215432 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they were added, last month < 1263215449 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before then, presumably it was all floats and unsigned < 1263215450 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay the type does make perfect sense, i interpreted the ->'s as x's because ->'s usually mean "failed character" < 1263215464 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean i interpreted a few of them that way < 1263215546 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as if you'd ever need integers in science < 1263215565 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do sometimes < 1263215576 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in quantum physics, for instance < 1263215606 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can just put them in doubles < 1263215683 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...so wait, it computes derivatives? < 1263215693 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the same way as mathematica or the same way as j < 1263215709 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably the same way as j < 1263215738 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Although a list reversal function is available already as a primitive operation, we can express one using this combinator and test it at the same time as follows. $ fun --main=" �&aˆ?( �&fatPRahPNCT, �&a) ’abc’" --cast %s" < 1263215747 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well to be fair i'm not sure there's a general purpose derive in j, zeotrope can probably tell me. < 1263215750 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a bit reminicent of J, actually, but with a different philosophy < 1263215776 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the philosophy, in 7 words or less < 1263215782 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tacit? < 1263215787 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not entirely sure yet < 1263215809 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well in J theres 2 derivative operators < 1263215811 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d. < 1263215812 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and D. < 1263215818 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d. does symbolic derivation < 1263215819 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is d. for "polynomials" < 1263215824 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1263215836 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but also general functions < 1263215846 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example square is *: in J < 1263215850 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so *: d. 1 < 1263215857 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the first derivative of x^2 < 1263215864 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is 2x or +: in J < 1263215883 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you supply a derivative? < 1263215888 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like you can supply obverse < 1263215911 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dont understand what you mean? < 1263215915 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh err < 1263215927 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you make a function, can you tell it what its derivative is < 1263215930 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do this for inverses < 1263215941 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh sadly I dont think so < 1263215949 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've actually been wanting such a feature < 1263215968 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like the idea of adding that sort of info to functions, but i think the way j does it is very unsatisfactory < 1263215994 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you add inverses to functions? < 1263216021 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't remember, i just remember you can do it < 1263216022 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1263216025 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1263216037 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have some function, that, when inversed, drops info < 1263216043 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm I've never come across it, it would be a good feature < 1263216053 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then sometimes when you inverse it, j will add the info for you, in case you wanna invert back < 1263216083 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would, one of the things i love about j (not i've never used it) is the idea of applying an operation "under" another operation < 1263216084 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I meant something more along the lines of manually specifying an inverse < 1263216090 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this relies on being able to add inverse information < 1263216105 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zeotrope: i mean if you make it show the func, you'll see how the obverse was stored < 1263216118 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1263216124 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("obverse" is the term i've seen used for it in j, in case that sounds weird) < 1263216160 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so something like the inverse of prepending something is dropping something, but the inverse remembers what was dropped < 1263216161 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually obverse is the correct term < 1263216195 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that if you reinvert then it will go back to its original state? < 1263216201 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try that if you know how to, i don't even remember how to add two numbers in j. < 1263216214 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1263216255 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would like it to be able to manually add an inverse < 1263216271 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can if you try that, and look at the function. < 1263216278 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :currently only bijective functions work < 1263216282 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just don't remember the character requence < 1263216330 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean? < 1263216379 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I gotta catch up on my maths but only bijective functions may be inversed < 1263216410 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously j can't invert functions in general, bijective functions are, in mathematics, needed for inverse, but in for instance the prepend example i mentioned, you have an injection, which is inverted, with stuff without actual preimage some "obvious" inverse < 1263216416 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's true < 1263216430 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*having some < 1263216440 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the case of prepending < 1263216452 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have a function that adds some preset element in the beginning of the list < 1263216459 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, so the function which can be written naively as f("x","y") = "x" is expressed internally as (&,0) which is sugar for (((),()),()) and which is most idiomatically written as ~&l < 1263216461 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "obvious" inverse is to remove the first element < 1263216464 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what an utterly weird language < 1263216491 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats an interesting idea < 1263216497 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but how would you add such info < 1263216497 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, "prepend x" is in fact a bijection from L to x:L, where L is the set of lists < 1263216503 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's no such type in j < 1263216529 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just use L as the domain of the inverse, and have it remove any element from the beginning, even if it isn't x < 1263216532 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i think.) < 1263216556 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I mean in the implementation of the language < 1263216573 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you add the info for basic operations, and you add info for combinations of operations < 1263216573 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this going to be implicit when defining all new functions? < 1263216628 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe J already does that < 1263216636 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, i'm explaining what j does < 1263216637 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1263216641 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but extending it to all the operators is tough < 1263216656 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, computers might not share our definition of obvious in general. < 1263216667 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and obviously inverting is undecidable in general < 1263216680 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes thats what I was gonna say.. < 1263216680 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1263216691 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does any other language have inversion < 1263216697 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love J's power operator < 1263216704 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well there are reversible languages < 1263216710 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't believe so many good ideas are locked up in this language < 1263216766 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j's high-level functions are pretty awesome < 1263216779 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahahaha < 1263216780 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the adverbs? yeah < 1263216786 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i actually have a book about j, but i'll probably read it in the summer < 1263216792 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love the way constructor/deconstructor precedence works in Ursula < 1263216792 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah adverbs < 1263216797 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Ursala < 1263216810 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does it work? < 1263216842 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~&httC = h (C (t, t)) in a more normal notation < 1263216857 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~&httPC = C (h, t (t)) < 1263216876 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, the constructors/deconstructors are either unary prefix, or binary postfix < 1263216887 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and P groups the two proceeding *constructors into one < 1263216910 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, 2 = PP, 3 = PPP, etc < 1263216952 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it infers arguments to binary constructors if none were given < 1263216967 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1263216973 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*over my head* < 1263216981 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'll be sure to read the manual < 1263216990 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like it has some pretty "interesting" ideas :) < 1263217011 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also has the I constructor, which isn't really defined at all < 1263217030 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, the manual gives four expressions containing I and defining what they do < 1263217036 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then stating, any other use is undefined behaviour < 1263217089 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zeotrope: you don't happen to know how to show a function's "source code"? < 1263217114 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in J? < 1263217118 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ya < 1263217125 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5!5<'function name' < 1263217132 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: lol :D < 1263217144 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just type the function name in the propmt without arguments < 1263217189 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woops, its 5!:5<'function name' < 1263217199 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :missed the ":" < 1263217201 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, ofc < 1263217237 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay i don't know how to get it to actually evaluate the ^:_1 and then display < 1263217265 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know there's a way, in one of the labs they inverted some stuff and showed how cleverly j deduced inverses < 1263217282 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is I was trying to remember it too < 1263217284 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one sec < 1263217365 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of ^:_1 you can use the builtin verb "inv" < 1263217371 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fyi < 1263217454 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cant figure it out < 1263217644 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Writing complicated pointer expressions can be error prone even for an experienced user of Ursala. Learning to read the decompiled listings can be a helpful troubleshooting technique." < 1263217871 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, seems everything's postfix < 1263217884 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, ~&rl is "left of right", not "right of left" < 1263217971 0 :bsmntbombdood_!n=gavin@97-118-192-33.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1263218016 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll need to write an Underload interp in Ursala some time, I think < 1263218051 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable) < 1263218100 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: figured out how to display inverses? < 1263218554 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, me and seven other finnish guys went to screw a lightbulb. < 1263218560 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on < 1263218592 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well maybe more like in < 1263218605 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or up while we're at it < 1263218632 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ponders the best preposition to use.
< 1263218646 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"over" is pretty good < 1263218687 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like "against". < 1263218788 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"around" is not too shabby in this case. < 1263218797 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oklofok and seven other guys, screwing around a lightbulb. < 1263218938 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seven other Finnish guys. That's important. < 1263219209 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any recommendations on books about asm? < 1263219706 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I learnt asm by compiling C to asm and seeing what I got < 1263219725 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, that's how I learnt x86 asm, I first learnt 6502 asm from a book called "Beyond BASIC") < 1263219790 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was kind-of fun, the last example in that book was a 16-bit divide < 1263219805 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ah, the joys of an 8-bit processor without multiplication or division) < 1263219896 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting, I'll give the C idea a try < 1263219932 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "Machine Language for Commodore 64 and other Commodore computers" book is available floating around in the interwebs. (It might be of an unclear legal status, though.) I think it goes a bit more beyond basic than Beyond BASIC. < 1263219997 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6502 asm might not be everyone's cup of tea, however, and the related hardware is a bit... dated. < 1263220020 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1263220055 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yes, my BBC Micro was sold for spare parts ages ago, because it was hardly working < 1263220075 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular, the B and Y keys on the keyboard were broken < 1263220125 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sam Hughes makes a whitelisting HTML parser, which doesn't allow and , but allows and . Hilarity Ensues: http://qntm.org/?parser < 1263220132 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a C128 in the closet (it's better than having a skeleton there), and it was working fine when I last fed it some electrons; admittedly that ws some years ago. < 1263220135 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Fine Structure spoiler in one of the comments) < 1263220153 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Specifically, Eskivole's comment and Sam's followup comment < 1263220316 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :last time I tried to boot my windows 3.1 computer, I found that most of the binaries on it were corrupted < 1263220320 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from DOS for some reason < 1263220356 0 :FireFly!n=firefly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1263220670 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why isn't oerjan always here < 1263220697 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as if he has anything better to do than answer my questions < 1263221069 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/anp8l/anic_faster_than_c_safer_than_java_simpler_than_sh/c0ij3xy <--- some redditor go tell him about Perligata < 1263221081 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perligata? < 1263221090 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is a redditor >.>
< 1263221146 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that the perl latin dialect.. < 1263221264 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :septimum noni tertii primi unimatrixorum < 1263221280 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :equivalent to $unimatrix[1][3][9][7]; in perl < 1263221280 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Perligata < 1263221293 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zeotrope: yes < 1263221345 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is non positional syntax a good idea? < 1263221394 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's different and unusual < 1263221400 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not entirely sure it's a good idea, though < 1263221422 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it /does/ fit in with the philosophy of Perl, in a way (rearrange your commands to have the important bits first) < 1263221427 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not really with programming in general < 1263221436 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc, as it's Latin, you'd put the important things last instead < 1263221440 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as that's what you do in Latin < 1263221471 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never programmed in perl, but there must be something special in it that facilitates such a language being built on top of it < 1263221500 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too lazy to read the paper..meh < 1263222002 0 :Slereah_!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-59-194.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1263222045 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/anp8l/anic_faster_than_c_safer_than_java_simpler_than_sh/c0ikw5t < 1263222123 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vaporware < 1263222131 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1263222209 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: the lang in question hasn't actually been implemented yet < 1263222266 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Edited < 1263222380 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :may as well say #esoteric on irc.freenode.net < 1263222389 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that people know where to find the channel < 1263222500 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done < 1263222551 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/anp8l/anic_faster_than_c_safer_than_java_simpler_than_sh/c0ikw5t < 1263222558 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry.. < 1263222569 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn irssi < 1263222572 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: call/cc is easy when you've got lambda. So long as you can compile to continuation-passing style, that is. < 1263222595 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1263222680 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :call/cc with escaping continuations means the ability to say "oops". < 1263222686 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: wrong < 1263222689 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perligata's implemented, anic isn't < 1263222691 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fix your comment < 1263222693 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1263222714 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fixed < 1263222785 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it isn't < 1263222803 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, now it is < 1263222804 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1263222805 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid caching < 1263222808 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1263222832 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the individual comment's still showing the problem, its parent isn't < 1263223231 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANI looks like kind of a vaguely-defined language. < 1263223492 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a language that's not been implemented or specified. < 1263223502 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really, it amounts to an idea. < 1263223508 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting, sure, but an idea. < 1263223936 0 :lieuwe!i=3efb65d9@gateway/web/freenode/x-gnmmbwrvkhjiwjyw JOIN :#esoteric < 1263224032 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. From the ANI tutorial: < 1263224034 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"What? We just learned how to write a Hello, World program in this crazy new language, and the next step is building a real-time parallel clock/calculator? Yes, indeed! It would take a programmer new to C months to be proficient enough in the language to attempt such a thing (and even then, it would be virtually guaranteed to have bugs)." < 1263224056 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I agreed with that statement, I would conclude that C really, really, really sucks. < 1263224087 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it does < 1263224101 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does < 1263224109 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1263224110 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :welcome to the world of low- vs high-level programming < 1263224172 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, such high levels of abstraction make us brainfuck players vomit < 1263224180 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"I am leaving. You are about to explode." < 1263224219 0 :ehirdiphone!n=ehirdiph@91.104.236.31 JOIN :#esoteric < 1263224228 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Replace the number of "really"s with the next Fibonacci number until you disagree, then. < 1263224228 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :callcc in c has been done before. Easy. < 1263224249 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: We have discussed and laughed at ursala before < 1263224265 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, eff you, the qdb is excellent < 1263224270 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: Yeah... You could hack it together with longjmp, even without lambda. < 1263224283 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here comes ehirdiphone, and disagrees with the whole log < 1263224285 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I literally lol'd at it every second quote yesterday < 1263224293 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: :D < 1263224294 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1263224300 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yep been done < 1263224320 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For prolog style backtracking too < 1263224326 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: did you laugh at the even ones or the odd ones? < 1263224343 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would I want to use a multithreaded real-time clock and infix calculator anyway? < 1263224345 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have Emacs for that < 1263224351 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: On average I laughed at every second quote. < 1263224367 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not actually joking: I configured Emacs to show the current time on the modeline, so I had a clock readily available when I was working in xmonad) < 1263224376 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I love that example, it so perfectly reflects the language design < 1263224394 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: anyway, Ursala is actually a really interesting lang I think < 1263224398 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We couldn't think of an appropriate real problem!" < 1263224416 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sort of multithreading is trivial in INTERCAL < 1263224424 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1) PLEASE NOTE THIS IS THE LINE THAT CAUSES THE MULTITHREADING < 1263224426 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :COME FROM (1) < 1263224427 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :COME FROM (1) < 1263224432 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheese is tasty < 1263224450 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :intercal <3 < 1263224477 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pfkkfnekvjejfjwkcjowkc < 1263224498 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: heh, you even left out the implied lr at the start < 1263224508 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?? < 1263224514 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION should probably eat
< 1263224519 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh ursala < 1263224520 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: remember, I'm trying to learn Ursala < 1263224521 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, i can actually attend all lectures except complex analysis < 1263224530 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: eat some cheese < 1263224539 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think most strings of random letters are syntactically correct (at least if preceded by &) < 1263224544 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The tacit thing is just one part < 1263224545 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think i've ever been able to attend more than like half of my courses < 1263224553 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the grammar implies arguments into functions if you don't give them < 1263224568 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: what's been keeping you? < 1263224573 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other courses < 1263224582 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Klopklopklopklopklop < 1263224591 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this time they are perfectly scattered around the week < 1263224611 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Implying arguments is nice < 1263224611 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing is usually people take one or two advanced courses at the time, so it's not really an issue if they are on top of each other < 1263224620 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I think Underlambda compiles into Ursala pretty neatly < 1263224621 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they use the same 2-hour slots < 1263224627 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'm like fuck u < 1263224632 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to beat REBOL once and had those < 1263224675 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION mutters something about pennies, ais523 and underlambda/intercal
< 1263224693 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At your school, it's normal for classes to overlap? < 1263224697 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see... ^ is ~&htH, that was easy < 1263224697 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1263224703 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather normal < 1263224704 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, H is an abstraction-inversion in Ursala < 1263224740 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also had Perlish function lvalue thing < 1263224759 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could do < 1263224772 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rot13 s = "poop" < 1263224777 0 :augur!n=augur@129-2-175-70.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1263224789 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: hi, nemesis. < 1263224793 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that'd make rot13 s == "poop" < 1263224795 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* is ~&hthOttRC, or possibly ~&hthPttRC < 1263224795 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie < 1263224803 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: since when im i your nemesis? :| < 1263224805 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not entirely sure which way round the arguments would be, I'm confused thinking about it < 1263224806 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s = rot13 "poop" < 1263224812 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool no????? < 1263224816 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's some coordination for stuff people usually take at the same time < 1263224823 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :am* < 1263224826 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : A formal semantics for this operation is best left to compiler developers. < 1263224835 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 'ppreciate my lang < 1263224847 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What operation? < 1263224857 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O < 1263224859 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: aww, I like having nemeses. < 1263224869 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doing? < 1263224880 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :composition < 1263224901 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, no < 1263224907 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :composition is complicated in ursala? < 1263224908 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's composing h and th themselves, not their values < 1263224915 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: it has quoting issues < 1263224916 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1263224931 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: PPRECIATE MY LANG < 1263224934 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1263224956 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1263224961 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'( < 1263224964 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crybaby. < 1263224967 0 :zeotrope_!n=user@bas3-kitchener06-1096650134.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1263224971 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::''( < 1263224980 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sleeps ->
< 1263224994 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i sleep like a baby, but i cry like a MAN < 1263224996 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: Wut < 1263224999 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION watches the tears escalate.
< 1263225000 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm tired < 1263225005 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had an exam today < 1263225007 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's 17:00 in fi < 1263225008 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i didn't sleep much < 1263225010 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1263225010 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1263225019 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1263225019 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:49 but yeah < 1263225024 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1263225029 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+2? < 1263225037 0 :lieuwe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sh*t, having some trouble implementing underload... < 1263225042 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+2 or +3, yes. < 1263225052 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:48 here in TOTALLY UNADJUSTED TIMEZONE LAND < 1263225056 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^____^ < 1263225060 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^___________^ < 1263225060 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, 15:50. < 1263225066 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously -> < 1263225073 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> < 1263225073 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lieuwe: Knew it < 1263225082 0 :lieuwe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: why? < 1263225091 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doing both ^ and S giving you trouble, right? < 1263225101 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1263225103 0 :lieuwe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: nope, () giving me trouble < 1263225113 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_O < 1263225115 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Howso < 1263225122 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: it could be the same problem manifesting in a different way < 1263225129 0 :lieuwe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: as that pushes stuff into the program, and i need to translate to python... < 1263225136 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so too ais523 < 1263225142 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lieuwe: Kneeew it < 1263225149 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@cpc11-pres4-0-0-cust168.pres.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1263225158 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:51 here in CENTRAL STANDARD TIME. AMERICA! < 1263225160 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You must store the code along with the python < 1263225163 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lieuwe: a hint: you need to store both a precompiled version of the code inside the (), and the original source < 1263225167 0 :Pthingg!n=pthing@cpc11-pres4-0-0-cust168.pres.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1263225175 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Or just do an interpreter. < 1263225186 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: I mean, to do a compiler < 1263225190 0 :Pthingg!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1263225191 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an interp would work rather differently < 1263225197 0 :lieuwe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: so i have a list of python commands as 'program' which i eval in order and insert stuff into, but i need to insert translated commands, and the translating is the problem < 1263225205 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1263225218 0 :ehirdiphone!n=ehirdiph@91.104.236.31 JOIN :#esoteric < 1263225229 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry what was said after the last thing I said < 1263225237 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[15:52] ehirdiphone: I mean, to do a compiler < 1263225240 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[15:52] <-- Pthingg has left this server (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). < 1263225240 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[15:52] an interp would work rather differently < 1263225241 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[15:52] ehirdiphone: so i have a list of python commands as 'program' which i eval in order and insert stuff into, but i need to insert translated commands, and the translating is the problem < 1263225248 0 :lieuwe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, well, at least i've got bf->python implemented, any other lang suggestions to implement?(prefferably not self modifing < 1263225250 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION was about to do that tprivately
< 1263225264 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should get one of the bots to do that < 1263225266 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :via DC < 1263225268 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*DCC < 1263225269 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lieuwe: UL is not self modifying < 1263225289 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is, you can compile the code segments inside the () in advance < 1263225307 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then operations like a become repr, ^ becomes eval, * becomes string concatenation < 1263225313 0 :lieuwe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and thats where my troubles start... my lexer wont do that... < 1263225322 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lieuwe: ah, you probably need to improve the lexer then < 1263225331 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your... Lexer is compiling? < 1263225336 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :( and ) can't be implemented as separate commands < 1263225354 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* isn't concatenative < 1263225357 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't < 1263225360 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Convat < 1263225361 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: I bet lieuwe's BF interp compiles [ to the equivalent of while(*p) { and ] to the equivalent of } < 1263225362 0 :lieuwe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: not really, it's translating to python, but translating to machine code should be possible < 1263225378 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Probably < 1263225380 0 :lieuwe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: actually, it doesnt do that < 1263225387 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lieuwe: could you pastebin what you've done so far? < 1263225415 0 :lieuwe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sure... < 1263225418 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: How powerful is ursalas type system? < 1263225437 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: depends on what you mean by "powerful", I think < 1263225444 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know how BCPL's typing works? < 1263225453 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dependent types? TC type checking? < 1263225461 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't do type checking < 1263225471 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, instead of storing bitstrings, everything's based on lists of lists < 1263225476 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. Not a real language, then. < 1263225478 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like ((),()) which is the representation for true < 1263225490 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and arguments are just assumed to be of the right types, I think < 1263225500 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Utter crap < 1263225509 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, the equality comparison checks to see if both sides have the same representation, without looking at types < 1263225520 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it tries to infer types /from/ the representation, for output to the screen < 1263225533 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's a --cast option to tell it what the type actually is, for more complex types of outputs < 1263225534 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This language sounds shit. < 1263225542 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: to me, it sounds very eso < 1263225543 0 :lieuwe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://pastebin.com/d751dd8dc is my code, it's 3 files < 1263225551 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not going to be the next Haskell or anything like that < 1263225559 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it makes quite a good esolang < 1263225565 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :high-level, too < 1263225600 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lieuwe: You don't handle outputtibg invalid commands too < 1263225613 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway don't try and compile UL < 1263225633 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's tricky, trust me (I did it first) < 1263225636 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can be compiled, but an interp's easier < 1263225639 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest interpreting < 1263225645 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Vastly easier < 1263225658 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Underlambda's designed to be much easier to compile; compiling it and interpreting it are similarly difficult) < 1263225669 0 :lieuwe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: the lexer detects illegal commands, but the runtime isn't done yet, which should report that, anyhow, i'll just look for another lang to implement < 1263225695 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This is challenging, I give up"? < 1263225708 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are you coding these if not for the challenge? < 1263225743 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : n,A,C,E,s[1<<20],*r;main(c,X){char*p=s,*q=p-~read(0,p,s);for(r=X;c=*p++,A=c!=97,C=c==42,E=c==94,X=c==40,c*n?n+=X-=c==41,*q++=n?c:!++r,1:!A|C|E?q-=~sprintf(E?p=q:(*r=q),"(%s%s"+A,E[r-=C+E],E?p:C?*r:")"):c-33?r[1]=X?++n,q:c=='~'?X=*--r,*r++=r[1],X:c-58?X=c==83,c-60&&c|n&&printf(X?"%s":"\nErr'%c'",X?*r--:n?40:c),X:*r++:--r;);} < 1263225755 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, /that's/ an impressive Underload interp < 1263225759 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: We concluded http://esolangs.org/wiki/Qq was sub tc, right? < 1263225780 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: I don't remember concluding it either way < 1263225793 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: fuck me, it even does error checking. I am not worthy < 1263225807 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION bows to honor
< 1263225809 0 :augur!n=augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1263225811 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hinoe < 1263225816 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok hello < 1263225837 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You sure? I swear we decided it wasn't tc < 1263225870 0 :lieuwe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: yup, it's *too* challenging, if you'd like a challenge go ahead and implement it... < 1263225896 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In what universe is "Vivid dreams" a side-effect. Although I guess the page doesn't say it's a _negative_ side effect < 1263225898 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.webmd.com/sleep-disorders/tc/melatonin-overview < 1263225935 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: seems to segfault on the Fibonacci example < 1263225939 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not entirely sure why < 1263225962 0 :soupdragon!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1263225980 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, uorygl, stop trusting the LessWrong.com posters 100%, kthx < 1263225984 0 :MigoMipo!i=54d90c8a@gateway/web/freenode/x-tfkyulyclizuwtgc JOIN :#esoteric < 1263226018 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why isn't bsmnt_bot here? < 1263226018 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lieuwe: I wrote an Underload->C compiler with ais523, that's enough Underload for one lifetime imo < 1263226025 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could have fun trying to do a Python oneliner that does underload < 1263226032 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why doesn't bsmntbombdude like me < 1263226045 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: If someone says they're a rationalist, clearly they're always right! < 1263226056 0 :lieuwe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: :-p but i assume that you had to write your own lexer/parser in c too? < 1263226064 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lieuwe: No < 1263226072 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Complete compilation < 1263226086 0 :lieuwe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: ? < 1263226091 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To a linked list of C functions and strings < 1263226112 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1263226115 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UL->C compiler written in R5RS Scheme < 1263226192 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't need to "parse" anyway < 1263226212 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just switched on characters and recursed on ( < 1263226238 0 :lieuwe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: ah, like so, any lang using my framework has to be lexed and parsed anyway, thats why my bf converter is so long :-P < 1263226278 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh < 1263226301 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unlike the ordinary alphabet, the Shavian alphabet is designed to match the sounds of spoken English. When you read a word in Shavian, you know how to say it, and when you hear a word, you know how to spell it. < 1263226319 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :��� = "toad" < 1263226344 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: s/[+-]/*p&&;/g < 1263226351 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1263226363 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is it \&? < 1263226373 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$& in Perl < 1263226379 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just & in sed, though, I think < 1263226390 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: oh how sad it is that shavian fails then D: < 1263226397 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1263226411 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well for one, its got too few symbols! < 1263226418 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for two, it only works for particular dialects of english < 1263226467 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: In c does char*p=t,t[50]; work? < 1263226474 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ptr before what it points to < 1263226480 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so < 1263226487 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't know for certain < 1263226490 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :��� < 1263226496 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no c compiler here < 1263226498 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1263226501 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a nice symmetry to it < 1263226514 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Question marks are quite asymmetric < 1263226520 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :�o� < 1263226525 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cog < 1263226535 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#! /bin/bash \ q=`realpath "$0"` \ cd /home/ais523/research/bulky/rakudo/rakudo \ exec perl6 "$q" \ = if 0; < 1263226539 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nevermind that its incorrectly called a "phonetic" alphabet < 1263226539 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where \ represents newline < 1263226544 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when its really a phonological alphabet < 1263226546 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but thats ok < 1263226556 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: what do you think of that for the header of a perl6 program, when I don't even have perl6 installed and it won't run from any other directory? < 1263226583 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love the q=`realpath $0` bit < 1263226588 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: The difference being? < 1263226593 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, q=`realpath "$0"` < 1263226607 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :phonological alphabet < 1263226614 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the difference being that phonetics is about articulation, acoustics, etc. while phonology is about the language's sound system < 1263226621 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's a phoenetic alphabet or is that a contradiction in terms? < 1263226629 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :english has only one t phoneme, but it has like half a dozen or more t phones < 1263226631 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah I see < 1263226634 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: an alphabet of phonemes, rather than letters < 1263226643 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: cute < 1263226658 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no ais523 < 1263226664 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a phonetic alphabet is an alphabet of phones < 1263226674 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a phonemic/phonological alphabet is an alphabet of phonemes < 1263226682 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, ok < 1263226685 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phonetic alphabet: � � ✆ < 1263226690 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8D < 1263226691 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1263226704 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cue s lereah < 1263226706 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I was going to make that joke, but you did it better < 1263226839 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does p?q work or must it be p?q:r < 1263226850 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need both ? and : < 1263226856 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, you have p&&q < 1263226863 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which works fine apart from precedence issues and return value < 1263226960 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BEGIN{say"char*p=t,t[30000];int main(){"}s/[+-]/*p$&$&;/g;s//p++/g;s/,/(*p=getchar())<0&&*p=0;/g;s/\./putchar(*p);/g;s/\[/while(*p){/g;s/\]/}/g;END{say"}"} < 1263226980 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Oh. One change < 1263226988 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00] -> < 1263226999 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00]={0} < 1263227005 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, perl5.10 < 1263227019 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To zero out the tape < 1263227031 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need a "use 5.10;" in there to get say < 1263227032 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1263227049 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's shorter than "use feature '5.10'") < 1263227050 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usage: < 1263227078 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl -M5.10.0 -pe'...' < 1263227110 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or add first line #!perl -pM5.10.0 < 1263227123 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: perl -pE < 1263227129 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they actually thought of that for oneliners, and gave an abbreviation < 1263227141 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-E is like -e except it implies the newest version of use feature < 1263227142 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does that do? < 1263227146 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh < 1263227158 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer adding the shebang line to a file < 1263227175 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"behaves just like -e, except that it implicitly enables all optional features (in the main compilation unit). See feature." < 1263227180 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, prolly the smallest Perl bf to c compiler < 1263227198 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks to the ={0} trick a < 1263227208 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nd the $& trick < 1263227219 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh change the string in the END to < 1263227219 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: as a file-scope static, you don't need to explicitly zero < 1263227221 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it happens automatically < 1263227227 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's autos that need explicit zeroing < 1263227228 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"return 0;}" < 1263227234 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yay < 1263227244 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still need the return, though < 1263227248 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No wait < 1263227249 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C99 < 1263227253 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Her < 1263227257 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Hee < 1263227268 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My original snippet was correct < 1263227308 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I deserve some sort of an award for writing that on an iPhone < 1263227467 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Puling something like my yield stuff in C#: Good idea or bad idea? < 1263227490 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't C# do that already? < 1263227495 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be surprised if it couldn't < 1263227523 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it has yield functionality similar to Python, but the programmer I'm working with is somewhat opposed >.> < 1263227537 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again, he was also opposed to the scheduler, which was a literal necessity < 1263227556 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although I did implement the scheduler slightly incorrectly, which caused a nasty bug, so) < 1263227594 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Nasty in that it was tough finding it, not that it did something so terrible) < 1263227645 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never assume that a TimeSpan's .Seconds == 0 means that the TimeSpan is for a 0 length of time >.> < 1263227857 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After I implement that, we'll be roughly where we were before I was fired as Sole Developer! < 1263227894 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Ok, so the guy's not that bad. He did implement a framework for GUI-like stuff that I would have struggled with) < 1263227918 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And has a system for user data in place < 1263227937 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And other stuff that wasn't even on my radar before I was fired < 1263227945 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whee! Chatkilling monologue! < 1263227993 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Get Colloquy for iPhone! http://mobile.colloquy.info" < 1263228010 0 :ehirdiphone!n=ehirdiph@91.104.236.31 JOIN :#esoteric < 1263228929 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/ao1ev/happy_birthday_donald_knuth/c0iko29 < 1263228941 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/ < 1263229025 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed < 1263229049 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: All evidence points to the programmer you're working with being a complete idiot. < 1263229060 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I wouldn't value his opinion much... < 1263229069 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just kill him < 1263229073 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody will even notice < 1263229139 0 :zeotrope_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :zeotrope < 1263229205 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION decides to try sugar in his coffee
< 1263229219 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uggh < 1263229223 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the hell < 1263229600 0 :lieuwe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1263230333 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.archhurd.org/ < 1263231062 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1263231066 0 :ehirdiphone!n=ehirdiph@91.104.236.31 JOIN :#esoteric < 1263232910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ^_^ < 1263232913 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's crazy < 1263232925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, is it a joke? < 1263233101 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it look like one? < 1263233110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no :( < 1263235254 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, why back on your phone? < 1263235282 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have a wonderful selection of church-turing cheeses. < 1263235408 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Won't be tomorrow. < 1263235592 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION muses on a Befunge 98 editing mode
< 1263235612 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interactive execution that syntax highlights as it goes? Why not. < 1263235627 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Including updating the playfield) < 1263235670 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cursor on fingerprint instruction shows fingerprint, stack effect and description? Yes! < 1263235701 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, hm interesting < 1263235709 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, typing a key moves the cursor in the current editing direction, not rightwards < 1263235761 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Breakpoint by pressing a key while the cursor is on the breakpoint spot? Yep. < 1263235765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, it would (like all befunge editing modes that are slightly useful) be a mix between a "classical" editor and an interpreter < 1263235783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, so go code it :) < 1263235788 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd hook into CCBI or cfunge or whatever, of course < 1263235806 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Sure... as an amend mode :) < 1263235892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, cfunge does have a trace option to output current instruction already, ccbi has a debugger, but you have to single step it to get a trace. Depending on what language the editor is in, calling D code could be rather a pain, or it could be trivial. < 1263235915 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd interface via stdio obviously < 1263235927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay, not as a library < 1263235937 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is unix! :P < 1263235950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, UNIX* < 1263235961 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unix. < 1263235972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, it doesn't look like "SPARTA" then < 1263235974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1263235975 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNIX is an error. < 1263235993 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was originally smallcaps'd Unix. < 1263236002 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I was deliberately avoiding that < 1263236021 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :300 reference would be "This. Is. UNIX!" < 1263236029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, it was the first thing I came to think of anyway on that line < 1263236038 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your mom. < 1263236048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, I haven't even seen the movie in question < 1263236098 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tggggfgguggffghyfuggygugh < 1263236103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1263236115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iphone spell correction failure? < 1263236121 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jfjwjcneovnjs. < 1263236129 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong language? < 1263236176 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tggggfgguggffghyfuggygugh < 1263236177 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vusjsjgf < 1263236801 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C < 1263238069 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am bored. < 1263239002 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1263239365 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1263239478 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1263239688 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1263244466 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1263244487 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1263244708 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1263244793 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : why isn't oerjan always here <-- if i stay at the computer all day i get horribly aching neck and shoulders. at least that's one reason. < 1263244935 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well get someone to massage you while you sit on the computer, sheesh < 1263244943 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1263244961 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be a rather long-term plan, i'm afraid < 1263244986 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why so < 1263244999 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get better posture bitch < 1263245002 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just go out with like a lasso, and kidnap someone < 1263245003 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BITCH < 1263245024 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get ahold of someone who would do that. not to mention i would probably then spend even less time on the computer. < 1263245037 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1263245083 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well anyway i suppose that's an okay excuse < 1263245136 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1263245371 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1263245457 0 :poiuy_qwert!n=poiuy_qw@74.13.130.162 JOIN :#esoteric < 1263245560 0 :augur!n=augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1263245578 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohai < 1263245759 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1263245795 0 :ehirdiphone!n=ehirdiph@91.104.236.31 JOIN :#esoteric < 1263246135 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asdf < 1263246294 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1263246348 0 :ais523!n=ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1263246352 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1263246627 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1263247118 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1263247835 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi ais523 < 1263247844 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1263247891 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : One of the errors said: & did not start a character reference. (& probably should have been escaped as &amp;.) < 1263247905 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this seems to be some sort of recursive version of Muphry's Law < 1263248292 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :recruise version < 1263249863 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@75-106-100-139.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1263249919 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1263250016 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Get Colloquy for iPhone! http://mobile.colloquy.info" < 1263250031 0 :ehirdiphone!n=ehirdiph@91.104.236.31 JOIN :#esoteric < 1263250042 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :abc < 1263250079 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :def < 1263250421 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1263250843 0 :olsner!n=salparot@c83-252-238-148.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1263251110 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Get Colloquy for iPhone! http://mobile.colloquy.info" < 1263251124 0 :ehirdiphone!n=ehirdiph@91.104.236.31 JOIN :#esoteric < 1263251146 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have been thinking about ehirdOS! < 1263251367 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lies. < 1263251437 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1263251465 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: wut. < 1263251472 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LIES. < 1263251481 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: wut. < 1263251529 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PIES. < 1263251556 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FLIES. < 1263251557 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: put. < 1263251566 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: fut. < 1263251576 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*flut < 1263251598 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swats ehirdiphone for fluttering -----###
< 1263251611 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: swut. < 1263251641 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hut. < 1263251651 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hut. < 1263251685 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nut. < 1263251693 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, i found an ehirdiphone quine < 1263251697 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: talk about oklOS so I can bask in ehirdOS' superiority. ut. < 1263251702 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: nut. < 1263251709 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yut. < 1263251720 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklOS reads your mind and is what you want < 1263251742 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok talk about the previous revision of oklOS :P < 1263251749 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ut) < 1263251756 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((oklut)) < 1263251779 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. you're a nut. < 1263251789 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: nut. < 1263251796 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nut. < 1263251805 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: nut. < 1263251843 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1263251845 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you = nut < 1263251855 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: yut. < 1263251974 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you's total nut < 1263254550 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1263254772 0 :poiuy_qwert!n=poiuy_qw@74.13.130.162 JOIN :#esoteric < 1263258628 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: yut. < 1263258999 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no u r nut < 1263259079 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a mad cadamia < 1263259262 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a loco coco < 1263260230 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: iwc :D < 1263260274 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOW HOW CAN ANMASTER WIN < 1263260298 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_o < 1263260331 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in case you didn't notice, we stopped that a while ago < 1263260344 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1263260375 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i didn't think today's was any special < 1263260435 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did AnMaster grow up? < 1263260522 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i think he just got bored < 1263260589 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see, i see < 1263260974 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's a total nut < 1263261031 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :completely off the wal < 1263261042 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1263261078 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you come up with that stuff < 1263261119 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :magic. < 1263261208 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't even rad the iwc < 1263261210 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read < 1263261219 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a cheater < 1263261220 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just wanteds < 1263261224 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Muffles < 1263261234 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nifgle < 1263261244 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sniffle < 1263261246 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just < 1263261252 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just wanted to win something in my life for once < 1263261252 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Schnibble < 1263261254 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1263261299 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how heartbreaking < 1263261299 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1263261330 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to create an esolang called poop. It will be the poopiest language. < 1263261336 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you tried not sucking? < 1263261355 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fecissima lingua < 1263261371 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why adj first < 1263261379 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1263261384 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does latin always do that < 1263261403 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no latin word order is pretty free < 1263261412 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh IC < 1263261446 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=S;O=A < 1263261452 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Our most spammy days. < 1263261478 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yesterday is quite far up there at 204 KiB. < 1263261482 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O=D < 1263261512 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That link sorts by size. < 1263261534 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also that is a dude with a halo. < 1263261552 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A vertical halo. < 1263261558 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dies spamissimae < 1263261582 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: Oic < 1263261588 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had D < 1263261593 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1263261794 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the top day seems to have a lot of bfjoust < 1263261849 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um bottom actually, on that list < 1263262050 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait someone made bct in /// < 1263262061 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't _say_ < 1263262080 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my point exactly, why didn't anyone tell me < 1263262083 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION coughs discreetly
< 1263262085 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought it was an open problem < 1263262090 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i know it was you < 1263262114 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i didn't know, but you've shown interest for solving the infinite loop < 1263262126 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1263262126 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You can erase all the key/value pairs within your Dictionary by using the Clear() method, which accepts no parameters. Alternatively, you can assign the variable to null. The difference between Clear and null is not important for memory, as in either case the entries are garbage-collected. Internally, I see that Clear calls Array.Clear, which is not managed code." < 1263262128 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's in haskell < 1263262131 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://dotnetperls.com/dictionary-keys < 1263262141 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suddenly, I'm not so interested in reading the rest of this site < 1263262154 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell is used like an assembler, there < 1263262157 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG that's pretty :D < 1263262230 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a simple trick? < 1263262236 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's much easier to program /// if you _don't_ try to use just / and \, incidentally :D < 1263262290 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you make the quine too? < 1263262293 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate wikis < 1263262294 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1263262297 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want names < 1263262307 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose that's not a general problem of wikis < 1263262318 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i hate them, so it seemed to fit. < 1263262341 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a simple trick? < 1263262352 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to programming it, did you have a revelation < 1263262360 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you see beneath the surface < 1263262364 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you touch its inner beast < 1263262373 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the _basic_ trick is that "quoting" thing, to find a way of encoding a character so you can _both_ copy the encoded version and unpack it < 1263262435 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "Simpler counter" section explains some things < 1263262448 0 :jpc!n=jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1263262457 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the more readable style with free use of characters < 1263262555 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that style is simple enough to be done by hand. i think i only used a few substitutions in vim to simplify the quoting/escaping, the rest is manual < 1263262608 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the pure / \ style is far too verbose, unreadable, and too much to keep track of, so i used haskell to assemble it < 1263262640 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1263262692 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact for that i had trouble keeping it under perl's 32K or so regexp recursion limit, i had to redesign my tokens several times to shorten it :D < 1263262726 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(using my perl /// interpreter) < 1263262798 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1263262804 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the main additional idea for that is to find a way to choose tokens consisting of only / and \ that nevertheless are unlikely to clash with the main scaffolding of the program < 1263262812 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it incredibly fast? i just uninstalled my perl interpreter yesterday < 1263262878 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty naive perl, but perl's regexes are quite optimized, so it's still the fastest /// interpreter afaik < 1263262887 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean the /// prog :P < 1263262895 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that, heavens no < 1263262924 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose it could be faster with a less naive /// interpreter < 1263262940 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but is it like 2^ or ^2 < 1263262948 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it takes several minutes to run the example code < 1263262959 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i think it is polynomial at least < 1263262980 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at most) < 1263262980 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1263262988 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah at least at most < 1263263006 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is nothing unary or anything, it's just that by the nature of /// it needs to recopy itself a lot < 1263263042 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, copying the program is polynomial stuff usually < 1263263116 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a single /// command is not exactly constant time either, it needs to scan through the entire rest of program every time < 1263263148 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is one point where the interpreter could have been smarter, after a match it just starts again from the beginning) < 1263263173 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the perl interpreter) < 1263263185 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1263263192 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by storing the program more sensibly, you could probably mostly just look-up where substitutions happen < 1263263207 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm perhaps < 1263263222 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hayo < 1263263234 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :helloes < 1263263239 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi augur < 1263263264 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey < 1263263265 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sup < 1263263679 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: i also made some programs using the http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Itflabtijtslwi input extension < 1263263850 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're so awesome < 1263263854 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish i was as awesome < 1263263929 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, now. if you also take a look at my BCT interpreter in Eodermdrome, i think you've pretty much exhausted all the esolanging i did last year. so maybe awesome, but definitely slow. < 1263263967 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you , you've exhausted all the esolanging *i* did last year < 1263263972 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1263263978 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that one is untested, btw, since there isn't afaik any eodermdrome interpreter yet < 1263263979 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least i think < 1263263981 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1263263989 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i made an eodermdrome interp < 1263263990 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be < 1263263995 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right... < 1263264003 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, well, i probably didn't put it anywhere. < 1263264018 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's gone, all my hd's are broken < 1263264037 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn < 1263264072 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but isn't it incredibly trivial to write one < 1263264110 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not if you want it fast? < 1263264132 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's graph rewriting, so... < 1263264146 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just mean for the purpose of testing < 1263264154 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does speed matter < 1263264188 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1263264287 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know how hard optimization is, since i don't know anything about the typical eo prog, but probably you'd just have to store a bit of info about where different kinds of subgraphs live atm < 1263264331 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that us mathematicians are allowed to think about such trivialities < 1263264368 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, right < 1263264389 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 hours till lecture! < 1263264413 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i better start preparing mentally < 1263264423 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aka sleep? < 1263264441 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe it's too late for that < 1263264443 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i actually didn't mean anything by that, realized seconds later i should've meant sleeping < 1263264454 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so really i could've said "yes" here < 1263264503 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :food -> < 1263264505 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i slept from like 18 to 22, which is why i'm not asleep yet < 1263264518 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1263264548 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was gonna suggest we go eat at a local restaurant, then realized you are not the one person i usually talk to. < 1263264577 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(classy hamburger restaurant.) < 1263264608 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1263264636 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for me, i'm going to my local bread drawer < 1263264686 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have bread + hunger, but i don't want to wake up the female pol < 1263264694 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait i'm a fok now < 1263264885 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are so foked < 1263264921 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*munch* < 1263264953 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'( < 1263264985 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose a finnish famine is no joking matter < 1263265158 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i think she's awake already < 1263265174 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the typity type type makes noise < 1263265187 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so......... < 1263265202 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one more theorem, then i'll do it < 1263265787 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1263268140 0 :lifthrasiir!i=ofy2zSpE@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1263268454 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1263268629 0 :jpc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"I will do freaking anything for a new router." < 1263268964 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1263270331 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Reconnecting…" < 1263270347 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1263274808 0 :Cerise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1263276164 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1263276513 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :bsmntbombdood < 1263277645 0 :FireyFly!n=firefly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1263280948 0 :FireyFly!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :FireFly < 1263282531 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1263282738 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1263283199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1263283200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1263284324 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1263284324 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1263284325 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1263284325 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1263284325 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1263284325 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1263284326 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1263284326 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1263284473 0 :FireFly!n=firefly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1263284473 0 :zeotrope!n=user@bas3-kitchener06-1096650134.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1263284473 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@wikipedia/PuzzletChung JOIN :#esoteric < 1263284473 0 :uorygl!n=warrie@lunch.normish.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1263284473 0 :HackEgo!n=HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1263284473 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1263284473 0 :mtve!n=nnnnnmtv@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric < 1263284473 0 :Ilari!n=user@88.113.39.59 JOIN :#esoteric < 1263284528 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1263284570 0 :FireFly!n=firefly@82.182.180.137 JOIN :#esoteric < 1263284995 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1263286552 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1263287069 0 :ais523!n=ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1263288033 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"I am leaving. You are about to explode." < 1263293427 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@62.119.155.253 JOIN :#esoteric < 1263293762 0 :MigoMipo!n=migomipo@62.119.155.253 JOIN :#esoteric < 1263294437 0 :MizardX!n=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1263294578 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection reset by peer < 1263294599 0 :MizardX!n=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1263294648 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1263294742 0 :MizardX!n=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1263294907 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1263296010 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-156-198-65.range86-156.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1263298744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hit an issue with efunge and ATHR < 1263298745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is < 1263298752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reliable testing of thread handling < 1263298770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, I'm on a unreliable wlan connection + ssh tunnel to my bouncer < 1263298803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I forgot to exit client at home, so no scrollback replayed, and won't happen if I lose connection from here < 1263298932 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: does Erlang have testsuites for that sort of thing already? < 1263298949 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can imagine a race-condition testsuite that puts delays in places systematically until it's checked all sequencings of thread interleaving < 1263298992 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well there is stuff, but the stuff I need to test is that I don't have race conditions < 1263299006 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1263299011 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that really is hard to check, since instrumenting stuff can change thing < 1263299014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :things* < 1263299027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, there nothing like helgrind afaik though < 1263299056 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you could do it manually, using a sequence of mutexes or semaphores or something to force the threads to interleave in all possible orders < 1263299107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, since erlang is based on message passing it it has a server for locks, which means, it is implemented as message sending and waited underneath < 1263299119 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1263299130 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1263299150 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also there are some settings for debugging to change length of time between context switches < 1263299167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also there is the SMP issue. And message passing between OS level threads < 1263299168 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I think you're missing the point of what I'm saying < 1263299187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why did that line render as a bar-code lookalike for a moment there... < 1263299192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION prods xchat.
< 1263299200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, possibly < 1263299249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway not only befunge instruction level interleaving, but what about the functions called in the erlang code < 1263299267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if it switches to another thread in the middle of io:format() for exampe < 1263299269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :example* < 1263299280 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ah, can't you instrument those as well? < 1263299283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm pretty sure that won't hurt, but you get the idea) < 1263299290 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must get around to implementing DO INEVITABLY in INTERCAL < 1263299296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, up to a level. A bit to hard to inverleave < 1263299297 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can inject test code into other bits of code < 1263299322 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, can you inject code in printf() ? < 1263299342 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you can inject it into 1010 and the other stdlib functions, yes < 1263299352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1263299360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well not the C standard library printf though < 1263299388 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, but only because it isn't written in INTERCAL < 1263299397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and correct usage of the erlang stdlib is the level I'm currently worried at. < 1263299477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also it isn't just 2 threads at that level. For example, I have the following user space threads for 2 befunge threads: befunge1, befunge2, io_server, fspace_server, id_mapper, and a few more iirc < 1263299488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and erlang has a host on it's own < 1263299495 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's just more combinations to test < 1263299531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the number to test grows quite rapidly. Especially with SMP where not only are they interleaved, but actually executing at once on different cores < 1263299543 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's no big matter, testing all combinations shouldn't take more than a handful of universe heat deaths anyway < 1263299549 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, :D < 1263299586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I believe the erlang system is probably reliable, I had to write a custom supervisor behaviour for the befunge threads < 1263299592 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the default one didn't cut it < 1263299629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a behaviour is a ready-made module for the "tricky" stuff, so you just implement callbacks, you could call using them a design pattern of erlang) < 1263299664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for example, generic server process, generic supervisor process, generic state machine, and iirc a few more) < 1263299715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and I'm quite worried about my own superrvisor, even though I based it on the one in erlang.) < 1263299781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have test cases to ensure that things work correctly for a single thread, and doesn't do completely incorrect for two threads. That takes me partway at least. < 1263299833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway, thread race conditions and such is tricky to detect in any language. Even when there are tools to help you < 1263299856 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should write an INTERCAL race-condition checker < 1263299872 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably by checking different alignments in a loop, with a callback to report success or failure of the program < 1263299920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, testing all possible combinations becomes infeasible quite quickly. Well depends on how well defined the interleaving is < 1263299936 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could just do random combinations < 1263299940 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll end up testing all of them eventually < 1263299955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, likely to find a few, but far from all. Something like klee but for threads sounds better < 1263299965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure it can be done < 1263299971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if it even makes sense < 1263300017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(since klee tries all possible paths through the program to detect bugs. And uses tricks such as calculating possible range of values a variable might have) < 1263300265 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION notes that count dooku in D&D mangles even his _french_
< 1263300276 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"zut alors", indeed < 1263300298 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait < 1263300306 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION fails french
< 1263300848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the erlang manual for the event tracer is slightly old: "[..] by clicking (press and release the mouse button 1) on the event label text or on the arrow" < 1263300865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either old, or just overly detailed :) < 1263300969 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1263301006 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1263301113 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1263301207 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1263301272 0 :Slereah!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-135-181.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1263301857 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1263303694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1263304672 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1263305308 0 :lifthrasiir!i=cbxvpLMT@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1263305319 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1263305926 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"puts delays in places systematically until it's checked all sequencings of thread interleaving" sounds very much like Promela + Spin. < 1263305972 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://spinroot.com/spin/whatispin.html was used in our parallel systems course. < 1263306037 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't really help with Erlang code, of course. < 1263307224 0 :Cerise_!i=jerry@81-89-105-25.blue.kundencontroller.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1263307724 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1263307733 0 :anmaster_l!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1263307738 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how very strange < 1263307758 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my desktop locked up the moment I plugged in the usb mouse < 1263307790 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had just before unlocked it (I use slock) < 1263307802 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this is the second time that happens when I plug in the mouse < 1263307819 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I take the mouse with me, if I plan to work for extended periods on my laptop) < 1263307824 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so: hardware issue? < 1263307831 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection reset by peer < 1263307945 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1263308114 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing relevant in system logs, sysrq didn't work < 1263309247 0 :augur!n=augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1263309256 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well hello there < 1263309646 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1263311398 0 :FireFly!n=firefly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1263312676 0 :soupdragon!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1263313612 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.104.236.31 JOIN :#esoteric < 1263313638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No ais523 :-( < 1263313765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:54:08 I think the erlang manual for the event tracer is slightly old: "[..] by clicking (press and release the mouse button 1) on the event label text or on the arrow" < 1263313766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:54:25 either old, or just overly detailed :) < 1263313768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two words: Emacs tutorial. < 1263313791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh? < 1263313794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm true < 1263313817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emacs commands generally involve the CONTROL key (sometimes labeled < 1263313819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CTRL or CTL) or the META key (sometimes labeled EDIT or ALT). Rather than < 1263313820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :write that in full each time, we'll use the following abbreviations: < 1263313822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : C- means hold the CONTROL key while typing the character < 1263313823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Thus, C-f would be: hold the CONTROL key and type f. < 1263313825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : M- means hold the META or EDIT or ALT key down while typing . < 1263313826 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : If there is no META, EDIT or ALT key, instead press and release the < 1263313828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ESC key and then type . We write for the ESC key. < 1263313841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We write for the ESC key." :D < 1263313843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can use the arrow keys, � I'm surprised this isn't qualified with "if you have them" < 1263313853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Each line of text ends with a Newline character, which serves to < 1263313855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :separate it from the following line. (Normally, the last line in < 1263313856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a file will have a Newline at the end, but Emacs does not require it.) < 1263313857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you move past the top or bottom of the screen, the text beyond < 1263313859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the edge shifts onto the screen. This is called "scrolling". It < 1263313861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :enables Emacs to move the cursor to the specified place in the text < 1263313862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without moving it off the screen. < 1263313864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, about the arrow keys, it would have been if ais had written it < 1263313877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can also move the cursor with the arrow keys, if your terminal has < 1263313878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arrow keys < 1263313886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ding! < 1263313887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bingo < 1263313893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*arrow keys. < 1263313903 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you are using a windowed display, such as X or MS-Windows, there < 1263313904 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One word: vimtutor < 1263313905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be a tall rectangular area called a scroll bar on one side of < 1263313906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Emacs window. (There are other tall rectangles on either side of < 1263313908 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(pwnd) < 1263313908 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Emacs display. These "fringes" are used for displaying < 1263313909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :continuation characters and other symbols. The scroll bar appears on < 1263313911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only one side, and is the outermost column on that side.) < 1263313912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can scroll the text by clicking the mouse in the scroll bar. < 1263313915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If your mouse has a wheel button, you can also use this to scroll. � Now that's modern! < 1263313922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1263313934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon, it is even worse then? < 1263313941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, vimtutor is reasonable. < 1263313944 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need programming help < 1263313946 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which makes it BOOOOOO-RING < 1263313951 0 :snowscape!n=chatzill@87.114.79.245.plusnet.thn-ag2.dyn.plus.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1263313952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, exactly < 1263313968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In order to make the text you edit permanent, you must put it in a < 1263313969 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :file. Otherwise, it will go away when your invocation of Emacs goes < 1263313971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :away. In order to put your text in a file, you must "find" the file < 1263313973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before you enter the text. (This is also called "visiting" the file.) < 1263313974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finding a file means that you see the contents of the file within < 1263313976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emacs. In many ways, it is as if you were editing the file itself. < 1263313977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, the changes you make using Emacs do not become permanent < 1263313979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, iirc you used to have to change a setting to make the scroll wheel work in emacs < 1263313979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :until you "save" the file. This is so you can avoid leaving a < 1263313982 0 :snowscape!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has anyone got a font that looks like the output of a dot matrix printer? :-) < 1263313983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :half-changed file on the system when you do not want to. Even when < 1263313984 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is d as in dy/dx just like 0.00000000...00001 (some kind of infintesimal)? < 1263313985 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you save, Emacs leaves the original file under a changed name in case < 1263313987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you later decide that your changes were a mistake. < 1263313989 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait ill ask #math < 1263313990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the fact that the Emacs tutorial is half Emacs tutorial, half "how computers work" totally cements the fact that Emacs is a wannabe OS. < 1263313998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: yeah i think so < 1263314023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you can approximate it better and better with 0.1,0.01,0.001,etc < 1263314030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I more usually use µemacs rather than gnu emacs for file editing these days < 1263314031 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to read about non-standard analysis but it seems to require stuff like ultrafilters < 1263314035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and gnu emacs mostly for irc < 1263314042 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: o_O < 1263314045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: What's happened to you? < 1263314055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm? < 1263314057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol@keeping GNU Emacs just for ERC, it isn't an *especially* good client :-) < 1263314074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well there are a few other major/minor modes I find useful < 1263314093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :microEmacs doesn't do things like inferior/interaction modes, does it? < 1263314103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not that I found anyway < 1263314103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like interacting with lisp while editing a lisp program < 1263314114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus it's only Emacs in a very tenuous keybindings sense < 1263314119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, lisp is one of the things I edit in gnu emacs still < 1263314128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you edit lisp? < 1263314145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, a bit, more often scheme than elisp though < 1263314155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1263314184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Clearly you must use amend for everything. < 1263314192 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alter < 1263314209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, have you started coding on it yet? < 1263314215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: amend. < 1263314217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no :P < 1263314223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :designs are percolating in my head < 1263314260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about your linux distro? your os? your < 1263314280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have thought about my OS as recently as yesterday, actually, and mentioned that fact. < 1263314286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do have a list of long-term projects, you know. < 1263314308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, yes, but due to adding new ones the old ones just seem to get pushed further and further back < 1263314315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My OS, if it is ever incarnated in a form good enough to be worthy of being called my original vision, will most likely take something like ten years. < 1263314316 0 :snowscape!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.7/20091221164558]" < 1263314326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not once was it intended as a short-term project. < 1263314343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well sure. What about the editor < 1263314356 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DEATH TO INFIDELS < 1263314358 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My Linux distro I'm undecided on. Kubuntu seems to be annoying me a little enough amount that I might just stick with it; Linux is crap in general anyway. :P < 1263314362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The editor? You mean amend? < 1263314367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be what I am talking about now. < 1263314368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well yeah < 1263314379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well yes. But I mean, do you have any time scale for it < 1263314383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 year? 10 years? < 1263314390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, in fact. < 1263314390 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 weeks or so < 1263314390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or somewhere in between < 1263314392 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lemme check my logs. < 1263314427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Monday 11 Jan 2010] [01:17:09] Well, given design, general toolkit mumbling and procrastination, I'll probably start serious coding on it in 1.5 to 2 weeks. Let's say another week or two, so 1.5, to get something that can do the most basic of editing tasks. Two more to get modes working alright. < 1263314429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Monday 11 Jan 2010] [01:17:20] And another one and a half weeks to do polishing up. < 1263314430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Monday 11 Jan 2010] [01:17:46] So about 7 weeks; maybe less, maybe more. < 1263314431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Monday 11 Jan 2010] [01:17:53] Hopefully less. < 1263314433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Monday 11 Jan 2010] [01:17:55] I can code like hell. < 1263314435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Monday 11 Jan 2010] [01:18:10] So let's say 5-7 weeks; most likely around 5.5-6. < 1263314436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Monday 11 Jan 2010] [01:18:31] coppro: But if you can deal with oft-brokenness, you could start using it in, like, 3.5 weeks. < 1263314456 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so about 2 weeks, give or take 5 < 1263314460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's for the earliest version you're likely to want to use. < 1263314466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: Yuk yuk yuk. < 1263314468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1263314474 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1263314484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, assuming you don't become preoccupied by other things < 1263314498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, if you want something even remotely as complete or stable as any half-popular editor, or don't want to code to get things working, well, come back in a year or so. < 1263314502 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or actually just give < 1263314508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Indeed. Is anybody waiting for my editor with every breath? < 1263314519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, coppro seems to want it quite a bit, but nobody else, really. < 1263314540 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? i'm basically basing my whole future on your editor < 1263314543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a hobbyist programmer, I'm not getting paid for this. If I don't find a project fun, of course I'll code something else instead. < 1263314543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, I will probably try it out, and if I like it, who knows < 1263314549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: I'll have it done yesterday < 1263314556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That isn't waiting for it with every breath :P < 1263314556 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like a father to me < 1263314561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I find that time schedule slightly unrealistic, some bits overly optimistic and other parts overly pessimistic < 1263314572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Hopefully those cancel out, eh. < 1263314576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like basic editing would take as long as modes < 1263314587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would if you want a decent structure. < 1263314587 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow I think modes will take longer < 1263314592 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are modes < 1263314593 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm maybe < 1263314610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need to come up with the right structure for the text so you can e.g. delete a character in the middle without shifting the rest of the buffer. < 1263314616 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, define: says: "a particular functioning condition or arrangement; "switched from keyboard to voice mode" " < 1263314620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :amonst other things < 1263314625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need to come up with decent keybindings and a general editing philosophy. < 1263314632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need to write UIs for things like incremental searching. < 1263314640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, or more precise, think like modes in emacs < 1263314642 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck, you need to implement incremental searching; not the easiest thing ever. < 1263314648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok doesn't know Emacs. < 1263314654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : You need to come up with the right structure for the text so you can e.g. delete a character in the middle without shifting the rest of the buffer. <-- surely this has already been solved < 1263314658 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey i even had emacs installed < 1263314660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Of course. < 1263314660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do current editors do it < 1263314664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Multiple times, which is the whole point. < 1263314664 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i did uninstall it a few days ago < 1263314680 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i've like saved a file or something in it < 1263314682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: c-mode is for editing C, python-mode is for editing Python, python-interaction-mode is for using Python's >>> console while editing an associated file. < 1263314691 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1263314691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irc-mode is for wasting time. < 1263314691 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : You need to write UIs for things like incremental searching. <-- I'm quite fond of how emacs does that. < 1263314712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, but you can't say "be case sensitive" or "use regexps" in an Emacs C-s without doing something else. < 1263314732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My idea is the same as Emacs' UI, except it pops up a tiny embedded UI in the bottom of the screen with the text entry, and: < 1263314732 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good point. < 1263314747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[X] Case insensitive [ ] Regular expression [ Next ] [ Previous ] < 1263314749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, this won't be GUI right? < 1263314751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and each of those having a keyboard shortcut < 1263314755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, it will work in terminal < 1263314762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :won't need GTK or QT or such < 1263314768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No, it won't. Not unless you want to port Tk to ncurses. < 1263314773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Curses is retarded anyway. Get a windowing system. < 1263314793 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tk? How can you like how it looks? < 1263314804 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was hoping you'd say that! < 1263314811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tktable.sourceforge.net/tile/screenshots/unix.html < 1263314818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tk 8.5 onwards have a new theming engine. < 1263314827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note how Default, Revitalized and Clam aren't bad. < 1263314831 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't you already tell AnMaster once to look at that if he thinks tk is ugly < 1263314832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also note that it uses freetype and the like. < 1263314836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So antialiased fonts, too. < 1263314839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: prolly < 1263314845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm okay < 1263314855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, btw I use a bitmap font in emacs when I use it in X mode < 1263314855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, it's not as if the editor will have many GUI widgets showing 99% of the time. < 1263314864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, it might work. < 1263314874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UI and code fonts are different things, though. :P < 1263314887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1263314896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, there might even be the possibility of setting the text font vs the code font. < 1263314899 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one standard monospaced font for all purposes < 1263314903 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you could read emails and IRC proportionally. < 1263314906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want. < 1263314907 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and death to infidels < 1263314909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, iirc openmotif supports fontconfig these days even. < 1263314921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Freetype, you mean. < 1263314925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh maybe that was it < 1263314925 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fontconfig is just the configuramotron. < 1263314930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, ttf fonts anyway < 1263314936 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that look antialiased and stuff < 1263314937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Xft, you mean, then. < 1263314952 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway this has been most educational, tell me when the editor has tetris < 1263314956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, I don't remember the details. Point was "not just X fonts any more" < 1263314957 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes ->
< 1263314996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, so, I think I've changed my original stance on pritners < 1263315000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so did you decide on a language for amend? < 1263315001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("I don't believe in printing") < 1263315010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh? < 1263315017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sort of craving a black and white laser printer to, like, print papers on and stuff < 1263315027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, there is no such thing as a printer < 1263315029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never inkjet though, i will never put myself through that horror ever again < 1263315044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I need colour, I'll go and raise lots of money and buy a colour laser printer < 1263315046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but NEVER inkjet < 1263315047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, notice I have a black fleece jacket and I'm a man. (never mind the blue jeans) < 1263315047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEVER < 1263315058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ...okay? < 1263315063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sorry, bad joke < 1263315065 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was... completely non-sequiturish. < 1263315068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no < 1263315079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, " ehird, there is no such thing as a printer" " ehird, notice I have a black fleece jacket and I'm a man. (never mind the blue jeans)" <-- MIB < 1263315095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1263315096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANYWAY < 1263315106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as language, I'm honing in on various possibilities. < 1263315109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only a few, actually. < 1263315128 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why laser rather than inkjet btw? < 1263315155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Laser is: Quieter. Doesn't do that stupid fucking thing where it prints, like, half of the page because one of your colours is low. < 1263315163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The toner *doesn't* cost more than the printer. < 1263315198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they're far more reliable. < 1263315201 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, iirc Kodak made a product line where the printer was expensive and the ink cheap < 1263315212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may have dreamt this < 1263315227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, laser printers are for hardcore geeks who love network printers. < 1263315232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And dammit, I love the idea of network printers. < 1263315241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, as I was saying. < 1263315242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't seen a laser able to print on photo paper yet < 1263315254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's okay. With a black-and-white laser, all I'll be printing is text. < 1263315259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that is absolutely fine by me. < 1263315262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tcl was a consideration because of closeness to Tk but the general fuckedupness of that language and underscore_naming_convention made me ditch that idea. < 1263315276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, lots of languages have tk bindings < 1263315278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scheme is a consideration, because I like Scheme. < 1263315289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, but they're not close to Tk in a fits-in-with-the-language way. < 1263315295 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1263315298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also because Scheme is good for extending syntax and stuff for e.g. mode definition and the like. < 1263315310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, lexical fucking scope! I would beat elisp to a feathery pulp. < 1263315324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C is also some sort of consideration because, well, it's C. < 1263315333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you would probably have to patch the interpreter you used somewhat to fit the editor better < 1263315344 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go is also a consideration because it'd be like C without the memory management, and also I could spawn parallel jobs easily. < 1263315349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which I guess could be useful... for something... < 1263315366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, C and Go leave the "extension language" problem open. < 1263315377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Doubtful. Edwin gets fine with just stock MIT Scheme. < 1263315378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't want tcl and you do want tk you will have to live with those language bindings in any case < 1263315383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly, it's written by the MIT Scheme people. < 1263315385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that. < 1263315393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's an advantage Tcl has. < 1263315423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=31482 < 1263315434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh oh, serious goat teleportation issues with Chrome < 1263315441 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so why not go for erlang: it has tk bindings, it has concurrency, you could do the extension language as erlang itself (though I'm not sure how easy this would be, probably slightly more complex than for scheme) < 1263315451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and erlang has lexical scope < 1263315470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I don't know Erlang, for one. But assuming I do: < 1263315486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tk bindings, sure, but does it have bindings to the ttk part of Tk 8.5, i.e. the part that lets you use the themed widgets, i.e. not be hideous? < 1263315509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, for ttk: I'm not sure. What should I look for (I never used those bindings) < 1263315512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Concurrency, yes, but using Erlang for a task that has concurrency only as a small part seems... weird. < 1263315520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Link me to the docs, I guess. < 1263315523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sec < 1263315544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://erlang.org/doc/apps/gs/index.html < 1263315545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The extension language as Erlang itself would work, but it doesn't let you define your own syntax, so things like mode definition would be a little awkward. < 1263315555 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I believe the focus nowdays is on wxgtk bindings < 1263315560 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unsurprising. < 1263315567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, there's no problem with Erlang, I just don't see why I should particularly choose it over another language. < 1263315587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: wow, that's a really bare-bones binding < 1263315590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, no ttk. < 1263315594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1263315601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How nice are the gtk bindings? < 1263315606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, wxgtk < 1263315609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :??? < 1263315612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it is wxwidgets < 1263315615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wxWidgets except it only works with GTK? :P < 1263315615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you probably know of it < 1263315618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no < 1263315628 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm mainly avoiding the big toolkits because their API is hideously complex and sucks to use. < 1263315629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, afaik it works with all wxwidgets ports < 1263315631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And makes me want to kill myself. < 1263315639 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but on linux it is wxgtk that exists < 1263315641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik < 1263315658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://erlang.org/doc/apps/wxgtk/index.html � 404 < 1263315661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://erlang.org/doc/apps/wx/index.html <-- hideously complex seems nice < 1263315673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice desc* < 1263315687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, yes, and the other reason that I forgot: Bah, objects! < 1263315689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably you don't need to use all those functions < 1263315690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I poop on them. < 1263315698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, mostly erlang doesn't have them < 1263315701 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that is what you meant < 1263315709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But wx, gtk and qt are all OOP. < 1263315715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh true < 1263315724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One thing I need to be able to do is have modes arbitrarily insert their own GUIs. Easy enough with Tk, I believe, but with the others? Hmm. < 1263315727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, doesn't tcl have objects of some sort? < 1263315737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an addon thing. < 1263315746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like a Scheme package implementing objects. < 1263315767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it could certainly be done with qt at least, there are loadable plugins in kate < 1263315773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course it's doable. < 1263315782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I have a deadline, here :D < 1263315786 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably easier with tk < 1263315809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also with the new NIF stuff, I believe writing a better tk wrapper wouldn't be too hard < 1263315815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming you can call it in a C like way < 1263315833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can, I believe, but I'd rather have to maintain an editor rather than an editor and a Tk binding. < 1263315838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course NIFs were added only in the last release, and is subject to change < 1263315840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s(int*a,int*b){for(int*c=b,t;c>a;)if(t=*c--,*c>t)c[1]=*c,*c=t,c=b;} � It sorts arrays! < 1263315863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, still, I think a lisp or scheme is somehow more appropriate < 1263315884 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :� < 1263315886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem with writing a powerful editor with some Emacs heritage is that you get branded as "Emacs in $LANGUAGE". :-) < 1263315899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Edwin is Emacs-in-Scheme, that Perl editor is Emacs-in-Perl, etc. < 1263315901 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who cares if you get branded just ignor them < 1263315908 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yes, a lisp is probably the best choice. < 1263315922 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Almost certainly for the extension language. < 1263315926 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why don't you use an esolang < 1263315927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno about the implementation language. < 1263315930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how easy is it to interface native code from it < 1263315934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: That would be... difficult :-P < 1263315938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: From what; Lisp or Scheme? < 1263315940 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I suspect you will need it for some tiny bits < 1263315943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, scheme < 1263315946 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but lisp as well < 1263315950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with lisp as common lisp < 1263315954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Impossible. R5RS has no facility for doing that. < 1263315964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor, I believe, for performing tasks such as "deleting a file". < 1263315970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ditto for Common Lisp. < 1263315973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about Tk then < 1263315974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, networking and threading is impossible in both. < 1263315984 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, nobody actually *obeys* the standard... < 1263315985 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you will need to rely on custom extensions I guess < 1263315989 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No shit :P < 1263315990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was joking < 1263316001 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, if you go for a lisp, which one? < 1263316002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sbcl? < 1263316008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably not Common Lisp. < 1263316010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer Scheme. < 1263316014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay < 1263316017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what scheme then < 1263316046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would doubt you go for mzscheme, since it is r6rs wannabe these days isn't it? < 1263316060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Actually, the only Emacs-alike I've seen that hasn't been branded as Emacs-in-language is http://armedbear-j.sourceforge.net/, probably because (a) it's written in Java; nobody would say "Emacs-in-Java", it's too silly and (b) it uses a real Common Lisp as its extension language.) < 1263316066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Maybe I'll write my own! :P < 1263316077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, eh, maybe Gauche or something. < 1263316086 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about the tk bindings? < 1263316095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you said you didn't want to maintain tha < 1263316097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that* < 1263316114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I could use the circa-1995 STk! < 1263316134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never heard of that. And I doubt it has ttk bindings then < 1263316135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, okay, not that old. < 1263316137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Circa-1999. < 1263316147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, it's been obsoleted by STklos since, like, 2001. < 1263316149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... yeah. < 1263316167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what is STklos then < 1263316190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it uses GTK < 1263316193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1263316195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And objects. < 1263316198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Nuff said. < 1263316214 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so I guess you will have to maintain your own Tk bindings for scheme if you are to use it < 1263316240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably, yes. < 1263316254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There doesn't appear to be a simple solution to all this. < 1263316285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, there is always tcl < 1263316290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll think about something simple and fun, like my poop language or SECRET-ESOLANG-PROJECT. < 1263316301 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Crazy semantics, very imperative, meh. < 1263316311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well good point < 1263316326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how hard would writing Tk bindings be < 1263316338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno. < 1263316345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not *too* hard, but not trivial either. < 1263316356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It essentially amounts to writing a Tcl binding, and then a sugar layer over that. < 1263316365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering emacs runs a tcl process and uses stdin/stdout to talk to it < 1263316368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the gs bindings < 1263316369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tcl has a good C API, but... < 1263316374 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: *erlang < 1263316377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err yeah < 1263316378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typo < 1263316389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[17:11] Maybe I'll think about something simple and fun, like my poop language or SECRET-ESOLANG-PROJECT. < 1263316392 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1263316393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1263316413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, then that schedule for your editor just went down the ditch ;P < 1263316421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it didn't. < 1263316433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poop is, like, a day-long project and SECRET-ESOLANG-PROJECT just needs ais. < 1263316443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("poop is, like, a day-long project" —me. You can quote me on that.) < 1263316455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((har har poop joke)) < 1263316562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sbcl's extensions seems very nice < 1263316569 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ooh new idea for language: mathematica < 1263316575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I am killing you. < 1263316580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1263316581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Common Lisp is crufty, anyway. < 1263316585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't feel like using it. < 1263316590 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1263316603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about java? < 1263316605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(SECRET-ESOLANG-PROJECT will totally make this channel LIVE ONCE MORE.) < 1263316620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Completely ignoring the fact that I'd have to use JNI to make Tcl bindings... < 1263316620 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :explain SECRET-ESOLANG-PROJECT < 1263316621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...no. < 1263316633 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, befunge98? < 1263316633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: No, Gregor will just go and implement it before I can :D < 1263316643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "LCT"(...) < 1263316644 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not if you implement it fast enough < 1263316644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes! < 1263316649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, is it a new language < 1263316653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Sort of. < 1263316653 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, actually that is a good idea < 1263316658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tk bindings for befunge98 < 1263316673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If by good, you mean horrible and excellent! < 1263316674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I'll do that when I have more time < 1263316685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "good idea" + "befunge" = what you said < 1263316699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make sure to do Tcl bindings to handle additions to Tk < 1263316712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1263316718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have an additional fingerprint, TK, that provides sugar over it for common Tk operations < 1263316719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1263316720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I certainly need to read up on the tcl api first < 1263316736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also there is a limited number of instructions per fingerprint you know < 1263316742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could do the stdin/stdout method; a lot of things seem to do that. < 1263316744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to pick carefully < 1263316751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, exactly. < 1263316755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is why TK is a separate fingerprint. < 1263316758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd do: < 1263316765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well for erlang there are good reasons. Mainly that loading native extensions into the vm is a fairly new feature < 1263316769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"KT"(...oops I need some more stuff than it provides "LCT"(...)...) < 1263316771 0 :ais523!n=ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1263316774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :certainly much newer than the gs module < 1263316774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1263316775 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1263316776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Also that it's easier. < 1263316778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Just in time! < 1263316795 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for what? < 1263316796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what? ais523 isn't bytecode... < 1263316809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I need to discuss an esolang project with you related to one of yours :| < 1263316820 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just came out of a meeting with two of the university's FPGA experts < 1263316833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, TCL/TK bindings for befunge. Opinion? < 1263316834 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who were busy talking about how all FPGA development environments were rubbish < 1263316842 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: bindings to anything is good < 1263316845 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if it's something ridiculous < 1263316846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1263316849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Tcl/Tk < 1263316853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You fail at capitalisation. < 1263316859 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't even be against .NET bindings < 1263316865 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even ActionScript bindings < 1263316868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about java ones? < 1263316878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, or cobol. < 1263316892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and I think I have half a spec somewhere for the fingerprint SQL < 1263316898 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never finished the details < 1263316904 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: anyway, conversation pop < 1263316909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A web servlet/Swing Befunge IRC client? < 1263316912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: see /msg < 1263316916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, wow < 1263316933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that is, usable from both the web and on the desktop < 1263316935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1263316945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, to begin with I would have to learn java < 1263316949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you run it locally it starts both, so assuming you configure your firewall right, you can just punch in your IP on the go to use your IRC client < 1263316951 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Befunge! < 1263316953 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same goes for tk of course < 1263316954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, just JNI :D < 1263316979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh right, I used the python C API before I used python < 1263316983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess that is doable < 1263316997 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, could someone check the most recent edit to Esolang for me? < 1263317002 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need a second opinion < 1263317009 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ingenious spam, trolling, or a legit edit? < 1263317052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, one of the former two I would say < 1263317067 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-12-138.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1263317083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks
< 1263317101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it is ridiculous < 1263317112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Custom Research Paper Writing Service < 1263317113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A research paper is a type of academic writing that needs more theoretical, significant and methodical level of inquiry than most other written assignments. In order to complete a research paper, you will have to spend a lot of time, study a lot of information resources, come up with a suitable approach and crystallize and summarize all your knowledge in a proper format. Sounds like a lot of work, doesn’t it? < 1263317117 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yet another we-write-your-papers-for-you spam. < 1263317126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Revert and ban with extreme prejudice. < 1263317130 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1263317135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, s/the (Wikipedia)/$1/, please < 1263317141 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll do a revert with wording that makes it sound like he didn't do anything wrong, and see what happened < 1263317163 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*what happens < 1263317168 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm interested to see if it's remade < 1263317273 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw are there any bindings for befunge you *would* be against? < 1263317277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just curious < 1263317299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also what about the secret esolang project that ehird said he needed you for < 1263317301 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bindings to the DS9K network protocol < 1263317309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we are strictly pacifist in this channel! < 1263317317 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: illegal ones, and ones that actually caused bodily harm or similar issues < 1263317318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah I got an idea: befunge bindings for befunge < 1263317327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1263317338 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*actually cause < 1263317341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I can't think of any in either category < 1263317361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, link me to the spec! < 1263317396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl food < 1263317397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/town/green/gfd34/art/ < 1263317404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll have to purchase it < 1263317410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/it$/it./ < 1263317570 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is somewhat disoriented by the way that Fark headlines appear days after the article was in Reddit
< 1263317585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So don't read Fark. Fark is crap. < 1263317774 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION just spent about 20 mins reading douglas adams inspired 404 page
< 1263317811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one? that one that's everywhere and continually displays messages about how sorry it is for not loading the page? < 1263317816 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1263317976 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hy I wanna poll your um < 1263317979 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever it's called < 1263317988 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :principle of least surprise or something: < 1263317994 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int a = 1; var f = x=> a+x; a = 2; int b = f(0); what is the value of b ? < 1263318017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x=>y being a function, presumably < 1263318029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: it really depends on the type of language < 1263318042 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's trying to be a cool functional dude, I'd probably expect 1 < 1263318043 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no that's the point < 1263318044 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I 3 < 1263318045 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 < 1263318048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but almost all conventional languages do 2 < 1263318050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what. < 1263318056 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ kidding < 1263318070 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo reads it as some esolang :P < 1263318100 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There should totally be a language where the about makes b = something other than 1 or 2 < 1263318109 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird well I said it should be 2 but he said no.. and I was like all languages except yours would give 2... and he said no not really < 1263318115 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm like huh? < 1263318120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: tell him he's a retard < 1263318132 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that would be very nice < 1263318133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :list of languages that do it that way < 1263318134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION breaths in
< 1263318136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lisp < 1263318138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scheme < 1263318139 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ruby < 1263318140 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1263318141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python < 1263318142 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no no no < 1263318142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C# < 1263318146 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :list the ones that DON'T < 1263318147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*breathes < 1263318151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: () < 1263318153 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can get more than zero I'll be impressed < 1263318157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least, that I know of. < 1263318164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I know of quite a lot of languages. < 1263318174 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : think about this: foreach(x in y) list.add(z=>z+x); < 1263318174 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : you want to capture the value of x, not the slot < 1263318191 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1263318217 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : nope, 1 < 1263318218 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : for pluk atleast, in some other languages it may be 2 < 1263318218 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : like lisp and javascript and so on < 1263318218 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (and ... every langauge :P) < 1263318218 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : no, not really < 1263318235 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so am I in the wrong there < 1263318274 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, I'm confused < 1263318300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: you are totally correct < 1263318312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a common closure pitfall, expecting them to work like that < 1263318331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: basically < 1263318336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is that his variables are mutable < 1263318339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in e.g. haskell < 1263318349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :map (\x -> (\z -> z+x)) < 1263318352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x is a new variable each time < 1263318356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we get the expected behaviour < 1263318360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "x" in each function is the element < 1263318364 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Perl, you can get either behaviour < 1263318367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but since his variables are mutable and x is always the same variable < 1263318368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's fucked < 1263318377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this is why mutable state is bullshit. < 1263318383 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codepad.org/1iagmDfc < 1263318389 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what do you think of the OCaml method? < 1263318397 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think mutable state is "bullshit" but it is something to do with mutation < 1263318406 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is actually confused by this now
< 1263318416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how does it do it? < 1263318438 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ocaml is very explicit (in a good way) < 1263318465 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'm writing a paste now < 1263318481 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird you must make a mutable cell in ocaml < 1263318484 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codepad.org/YzQtEiid < 1263318491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: ah, right < 1263318494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it=ocaml < 1263318496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ocaml method < 1263318503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway the ocaml method is just haskell's iorefs then :P < 1263318509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or strefs < 1263318514 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm rreally jelous of ais' perl skills < 1263318522 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'd never admit it < 1263318525 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, in ocaml everything's an immutable value < 1263318526 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah that's basically because %a becomes a new variable < 1263318528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each iteration < 1263318529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1263318531 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can have an explicit pointer to a memory location, though < 1263318532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to use the foreach example < 1263318534 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case the pointer is the value < 1263318535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*$a < 1263318539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is basically what i said < 1263318547 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais my $a = $a kinda cheating :P < 1263318548 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes, you have to mark it with a lexicaliser < 1263318552 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might as well write < 1263318558 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: no, because it's how you do that in Perl < 1263318569 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my $z = $a ... [$a/$z] < 1263318592 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: yes, you might, and that would be fine too < 1263318602 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.... $a = $a has an effect in Perl? < 1263318604 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION cries
< 1263318605 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is, the value of $a is stored in the closure because it's been lexicalised < 1263318606 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no < 1263318614 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bracketing is (my $a) = $a < 1263318626 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in perl5, my doesn't create the new variable name until the end of the statement < 1263318627 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehehe < 1263318647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$a=$a is just mutating $a < 1263318650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but my $a declares a var < 1263318659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo won't get this because he codes python, and python is stupid and has no variable declarations < 1263318663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus leading to the wonderful "global" kludge < 1263318665 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, I think you can get away with just "my $a" which means the same thing < 1263318672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the wrapping-a-variable-in-an-array-to-mutate-it-in-a-nested-function kludge < 1263318681 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah no, it initialises to undef < 1263318704 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :global awesome < 1263318707 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol python < 1263318709 0 :augur!n=augur@129-2-175-68.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1263318735 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiya augur, < 1263318743 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who calls "ti" "si"? < 1263318749 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey soupdragongirly < 1263318750 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sup < 1263318794 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1263318856 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just pwning some noobs u? < 1263318952 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :playing around with DNF-expression k-sat < 1263319038 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you implement prolog yet < 1263319069 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a semi-working version, yeah. :) < 1263319437 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1263319460 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what strategy did you use < 1263319463 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it streams or stack or what? < 1263319795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, okay idea: why not use a language with a history of about the same length as that of Lisp for amend? < 1263319998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fortran? < 1263320026 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fortran's awful at text processing < 1263320052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes < 1263320056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, or asm < 1263320146 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about " int a = 1; var f = x=> a+x; a = 2; int b = f(0); what is the value of b ?" in erlang. That would be: http://codepad.org/RWtT11n8 < 1263320177 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey AnMaster thanks! < 1263320183 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw < 1263320183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86 asm doesn't have as long a history as Fortran. < 1263320196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: AnMaster cheated < 1263320196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon, well for a start, it throws an exception trying to assign to the same variable twice < 1263320198 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you did that in one erlang statement, or like, in one erlang function -- you couldn't use A twich could you < 1263320199 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1263320200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the values differ < 1263320204 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's just a REPL thing? < 1263320207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A=2" was pattern matching < 1263320208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not x86 no < 1263320209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1263320211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not assigning < 1263320216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it isn't actual mutation < 1263320216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well that is how erlang *does* assign < 1263320219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and A was still 1 < 1263320223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it didn't change, QED < 1263320230 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there no no actual concept of assigning apart from pattern match < 1263320231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ^ < 1263320235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1263320239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. no mutable variables < 1263320241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon, and yes it is a repl < 1263320245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. that wasn't an actual demonstration < 1263320246 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon, and variables are not mutable < 1263320248 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :idea: is it possible to use URL-shorteners as free webhosting by using data:// URLs? < 1263320255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, old < 1263320257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: some of them, yes, iirc < 1263320259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did it with tinyurl < 1263320264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I have already seen a tinyurl < 1263320267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that did it < 1263320271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. AnMaster was doing his regular "har-har-mine-doesn't-work-like-that" misleadingness < 1263320284 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster but I mean -- peculiar to the REPL < 1263320289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon, eh? < 1263320290 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"TinyURL was created as a free service to make posting long URLs easier, and may only be used for actual URLs" < 1263320301 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon, in a normal function, it depends on if you catch that exception or not < 1263320311 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, that means that if you put the leading http:// on, it violates the TOS < 1263320317 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because then it's a URI not a URL < 1263320318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon, if you don't, well it won't continue past that point. If you do catch it, well depends on what you do < 1263320324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1263320325 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1263320326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :URI superset-of URL < 1263320343 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought URLs couldn't specify the protocol, though < 1263320345 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster what I mean is: is this a valid program? < 1263320349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon, erlang does not have assignment. It only has pattern matching. < 1263320358 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: no, it threw an error < 1263320361 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test -> A = 1; F = fun(X) -> A + X; A = 2; B = F(0); B < 1263320365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the pattern-matching, not assignment "A=2" failed < 1263320368 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's not because we used A twice < 1263320375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon, and it would have been written differently outside the repl. For a start it would all have had to be in a function. < 1263320385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon, A *can not be changed in erlang* < 1263320397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is *invalid* to change the value of a variable once you set it < 1263320399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: it was AnMaster's idea of a joke < 1263320400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon, get that < 1263320403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1263320405 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what it a joke? < 1263320406 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the GNU internationalisation package called < 1263320410 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that normally uses a macro called _? < 1263320411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, gettext? < 1263320413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: gettext < 1263320413 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1263320419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Please type or paste a valid web address into the input box." < 1263320422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying all sorts of shorteners < 1263320436 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you managed with data:// didn't you? < 1263320442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno, maybe < 1263320445 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster well it's sort of inexpressible in erlang then.. unless you do it like ocaml I guess < 1263320454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firefox can't find the server at data. < 1263320455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so close < 1263320456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon, how does ocaml do it. I don't know ocaml < 1263320483 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: OCaml has the type pointer-to-mutable-data, effectively < 1263320485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon, also in the repl, I think variables are actually stored in a dict between the lines. Since you can use a command to forget all bound variables there. < 1263320490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :src="http://data: < 1263320491 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the pointer itself is immutable, but you can mutate what it points to < 1263320492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fffuuu < 1263320494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm wait < 1263320494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, erlang does not < 1263320496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone know a service < 1263320502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://foo/poop?url=... < 1263320505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that just redirects to ... < 1263320506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1263320507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION idea
< 1263320510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon, okay you could store it in the database engine of erlang. mnesia < 1263320512 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: anonym.to? < 1263320516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1263320518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I thought of < 1263320521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon, but that would be ridiculous < 1263320523 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1263320526 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1263320539 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that's a ridiculous idea, I like it < 1263320557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww, it truncates it :( < 1263320568 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, anonym.to? < 1263320568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will store this jpeg whether it's the last thing I do < 1263320571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1263320576 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's it a jpeg of, anyway? < 1263320594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :truthfully? the non-goatse at goatse.cx < 1263320598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it was changed a while ago) < 1263320600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's SFW) < 1263320605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just looks like goatse, if you know what goatse looks like < 1263320632 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, a fake goatse, what a weird concept < 1263320638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon, or a dict. But then the dict would be a different one. Since erlang is in effect single assignment it create a new dictionary (sharing most parts of course, the gc will collect the no longer referenced bits later on) < 1263320652 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only ever fell for a goatse link once, and it loaded so slowly I guessed it was goatse by the top 20 or so pixels and navigated away < 1263320664 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that's interesting AnMaster < 1263320665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a goatse parody < 1263320665 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I've seen maybe about 5% of goatse, the harmless part < 1263320668 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you write that as a proc?? < 1263320675 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you are like bored or something < 1263320681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon, as a proc? < 1263320685 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nr < 1263320687 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :function < 1263320688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Request-URI Too Large < 1263320689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The requested URL's length exceeds the capacity limit for this server. < 1263320691 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever erlang calls it < 1263320691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asdfgjkl; < 1263320737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon, well there is function. The fun I used on that line is like lambda in scheme (closure style that is) < 1263320739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg < 1263320741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one almost worked < 1263320750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon, normally you don't use that syntax in source files < 1263320756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, a similar syntax < 1263320761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except it prepended http:// :( < 1263320780 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon, also write *what* bit as a function < 1263320809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well this'll certainly be a rather robust image host :-D < 1263320818 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one using the dicts < 1263320821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone who visits the image has a never-expiring token to share it < 1263320830 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could even bookmark it < 1263320837 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, insane idea < 1263320844 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an entire website made out of data: urls < 1263320848 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably, mostly generated via JS < 1263320854 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each page on it stores the entire site < 1263320855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: omg < 1263320857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could quine < 1263320860 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can just bookmark any of them < 1263320861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can go back to the index page < 1263320862 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it /has/ to quine < 1263320870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wow, I think I want to marry you < 1263320871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just for that idea < 1263320875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's brilliant < 1263320880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quining URIs < 1263320887 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :practically useful, too < 1263320912 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could have an auto-update via AJAX < 1263320921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION settles for pasting the image via pastebin.ca
< 1263320923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.ca/raw/1748566 < 1263320932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like tinyurl's preview-the-url service, except more work and uselses < 1263320934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*useless < 1263320936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but by gum, it works < 1263320951 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ajax to *where*, exactly? < 1263320956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole point would be that it was decentralised < 1263320959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, my < 1263320962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION just had an awful idea
< 1263320967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon, oh well, that would be like: < 1263320969 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be a forum, right < 1263320980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and posting a message would post a specially formatted paste to one of a list of pastebin services < 1263320985 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it'd scan those to find the posts < 1263320996 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, that is an awful idea < 1263321001 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially when the pastebin operators find out < 1263321002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's awful *and* wonderful < 1263321009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: eh, you're allowed to paste plaintext in 'em < 1263321012 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, cross-domain security requirements might stop that working < 1263321016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and people post conversation snippets in pastebins anyway < 1263321022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon, http://codepad.org/i8ZzmGPl < 1263321030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon, that is REPL again, too lazy to write it in a module < 1263321046 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, I need in a module or it's just as bad at the first paste you did :[ < 1263321048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon, since F can't reference the new dict (unless you make it a parameter) < 1263321057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about process tables < 1263321061 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and by bad I mean an evil trick < 1263321064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you mean get/put? < 1263321067 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm forgot about that < 1263321082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I thought you didn't know erlang? < 1263321092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, it would be evil. < 1263321114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon, the normal way to keep state in erlang is to make a thread/process that act as a server, which you talk to < 1263321123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon, since erlang is based on message passing concurrency this is trivial < 1263321154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: just do it < 1263321158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's exactly the original problem < 1263321174 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@cpc11-pres4-0-0-cust168.pres.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1263321174 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then I believe it would return 2 there. < 1263321203 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really < 1263321203 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1263321210 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be glad if it returns 2 :P < 1263321210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just do it :P < 1263321211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not hard < 1263321214 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because then I would be right! < 1263321217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: it'd be the only one that actually mutates < 1263321225 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if it returns 1 then that's cool too because having counterexamples is good < 1263321256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon, well there http://codepad.org/cPjBrzF3 < 1263321272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon, and that is bad programming practise < 1263321276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, C would do the same. < 1263321285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody cares about whether it's idiomatic < 1263321289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we care about the results :P < 1263321308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you could use state in haskell to do this I believe < 1263321312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you really wanted it to < 1263321317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a hunch < 1263321335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, you could < 1263321338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: IORefs or ST? < 1263321340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess ST < 1263321346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since this problem isn't IO-related in any way < 1263321348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :State also < 1263321349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll do both < 1263321359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, can't you do it with IORefs as well? < 1263321368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but ST = IO with only IORefs < 1263321370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except they're STRefs < 1263321383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: lazy or strict state? :D < 1263321388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll go for lazy, since it's more haskelly < 1263321393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why not eager state? < 1263321401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean strict < 1263321440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh? wouldn't eager be on the other side? < 1263321449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least the way I thought of "eager" in programming < 1263321474 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it doesn't make much sense for state here < 1263321524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: hmm < 1263321530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is passing in the mutable reference that is a to f acceptable? < 1263321533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't do it any other way w/ haskell < 1263321542 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just do < 1263321544 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :passing a mutable ref is fine, that's like ocaml < 1263321547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let foo = f a < 1263321548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1263321550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if you could do that. then using a dict in erlang would work < 1263321554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just pass the dict along to it < 1263321558 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems like in every SANE language that the result is 2 < 1263321559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, a different dict < 1263321566 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's funy that guy thinks 1 is acceptable < 1263321572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wth < 1263321599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: lazy or strict state? < 1263321604 0 :cal153!n=cal@c-69-181-46-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1263321626 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection reset by peer < 1263321627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, would scheme give 1 or 2, well depends on what you mean by it < 1263321643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(define a 1) < 1263321648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(define (f x) (+ a x)) < 1263321651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(set! a 2) < 1263321652 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird they both give the same answer here < 1263321657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(f 0) → 2 < 1263321660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: thought so < 1263321669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :import Control.Monad.ST.Lazy < 1263321669 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird well don't take my word for it < 1263321670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :import Data.STRef.Lazy < 1263321672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f a x = do < 1263321673 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just guessed that < 1263321673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : a' <- readSTRef a < 1263321675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return (a' + x) < 1263321676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo = do < 1263321676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah but what if you changed set! to define? < 1263321678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : a <- newSTRef 1 < 1263321679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : let f' = f a < 1263321681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : writeSTRef a 2 < 1263321682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return (f' 0) < 1263321684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :↑ st version < 1263321685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :state is trivially the same < 1263321687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: invalid < 1263321733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's funny. 1) arch only has guile it seems. 2) it seems to be built without readline < 1263321752 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guile is shit < 1263321757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, exactly < 1263321765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use scheme48 or chicken or sisc or mit scheme < 1263321775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sisc is java but standards compliant in the most anal way imaginable < 1263321778 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is one called "bigloo" too < 1263321782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scheme48 is kinda cool and also compliant < 1263321787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chicken is sorta deviant and practical but alright < 1263321790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh mzscheme is under drscheme < 1263321794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mit scheme is totally old school man (and written in mit scheme) < 1263321799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mzscheme is acceptable if put in r5rs mode, but meh < 1263321801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bigloo is shit < 1263321829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wth, it is 230 MB < 1263321832 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like chicken < 1263321833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :drscheme that is < 1263321839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is chicken open source? < 1263321861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who said it wasn't? < 1263321868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I don't know < 1263321870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I asked you < 1263321874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chez Scheme is the one that's closed-source. < 1263321879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: why did you assume it might not be? < 1263321890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :42,56 MB for download... 230,30 installed size < 1263321895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite nice compression ratio < 1263321903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(please place docs in a separate package) < 1263321966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, wth: http://codepad.org/iVQeluXu < 1263321973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that isn't supposed to happen is it? < 1263321983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You use DEFINE in an invalid manner. < 1263321987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your program is not correct. < 1263321993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus, its behaviour is undefined. < 1263321998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I refuse to comment on it, as it is not an R5RS program. < 1263321999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah undef. Right < 1263322009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Allow me to quote the definition of DEFINE: < 1263322019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pastebin if long < 1263322048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, just read http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-8.html#%_sec_5.2 < 1263322052 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Technically < 1263322054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At the top level of a program, a definition < 1263322055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(define ) < 1263322057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has essentially the same effect as the assignment expression < 1263322058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(set! ) < 1263322060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that changes inside a function < 1263322062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and functions are where the meat is, so. < 1263322068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Definitions may occur at the beginning of a (that is, the body of a lambda, let, let*, letrec, let-syntax, or letrec-syntax expression or that of a definition of an appropriate form). Such definitions are known as internal definitions as opposed to the top level definitions described above. The variable defined by an internal definition is local to the . That is, is bound rather than assigned, and the region of the binding is the < 1263322070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :entire . For example, < 1263322077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Keyword "at the beginning". < 1263322137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, plt-r5rs accepted it too. < 1263322139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just fyi < 1263322165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your program is in fact correct, but only because the REPL is top-level. < 1263322171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well yes < 1263322172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it simulated being inside a function body it would be incorrect. < 1263322180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But DEFINE is really only useful like that if you can use it after the start. < 1263322187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, don't use the REPL to test Scheme behaviour. < 1263322190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try it in a (define (main) ...). < 1263322195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1263322228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I dislike soupdragon suggestion that only insane languages return 1 for it < 1263322233 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seemed to be what he said above < 1263322244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm I wonder < 1263322247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does mathematica do < 1263322306 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mathematica returns 2 < 1263322313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 wouldn't have surprised me < 1263322324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does make do < 1263322331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make does not have variable mutation. < 1263322335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and how does one define a *function* in it) < 1263322341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh? < 1263322344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnu make here < 1263322358 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1263322362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnu makes supports both "evaluate on use" and "evaluate on assignment" < 1263322366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := is the former < 1263322368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::= is the latter < 1263322383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it has user definable functions I don't know < 1263322444 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster excuse me?? < 1263322460 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about his, name one sane language that gives 1? < 1263322487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust isthisthingon >((+)*127>(-)*127)*8>((-)*128[-.]>(+)*128[+.])*21 < 1263322497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION prods EgoBot
< 1263322503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ↑ < 1263322504 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for ehird_isthisthingon: 15.1 < 1263322507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1263322517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did upsettingly badly :( < 1263322519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone wanna play? < 1263322520 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's that?? < 1263322524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck joust dude < 1263322528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/BF_Joust < 1263322536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we play with ais523's revised one with egojoust < 1263322538 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF < 1263322541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/report.txt < 1263322554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot/ for program sources < 1263322558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, warrior sources < 1263322630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :our busiest day ever, http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/09.05.28, with a 417 KiB log, was spent playing BF Joust :D < 1263322637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it died down and that ensaddens me < 1263322656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust whataboutthis [+-]+ < 1263322668 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for AnMaster_whataboutthis: 7.8 < 1263322668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1263322671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1263322695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does main() in C take argc, argv rather than argc, ... < 1263322700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, stdarg.h < 1263322711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that predates stdarg, and stdarg is a bitch to use < 1263322719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh good points < 1263322759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, beats me why they didn't do stdarg properly, which would be to map it to a void* params[] in the function < 1263322776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust isthisthingon >(+)*127<+>>(-)*126<<->>>(+)*125<<<+>>>>>>>>>>[[-]>+] < 1263322786 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for ehird_isthisthingon: 2.9 < 1263322791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because that is not how the system stack works. < 1263322792 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ehird where is the result page for it < 1263322801 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you play this????? < 1263322802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I linked that a second ago. < 1263322804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, too high level I guess < 1263322811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh there < 1263322811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust isthisthingon >((+)*127>(-)*127)*8>((-)*128[-.]>(+)*128[+.])*21 < 1263322819 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for ehird_isthisthingon: 14.1 < 1263322823 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the game ?? < 1263322828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: i fucking linked you < 1263322835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[18:55] http://esolangs.org/wiki/BF_Joust < 1263322836 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah thanks < 1263322836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[18:55] we play with ais523's revised one with egojoust < 1263322837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[18:55] FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF < 1263322839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[18:55] see http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/report.txt < 1263322841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[18:55] and http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot/ for program sources < 1263322842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[18:55] well, warrior sources < 1263322843 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : [18:55] FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF < 1263322843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[18:56] our busiest day ever, http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/09.05.28, with a 417 KiB log, was spent playing BF Joust :D < 1263322845 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1263322848 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1263322848 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :key part of the discourse < 1263322851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about it? < 1263322854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't read? < 1263322860 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1263322865 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esolangs server is up now < 1263322867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust discourse [++] < 1263322870 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1263322875 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for ehird_discourse: 5.4 < 1263322934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"(+-)*5 expands to +-+-+-+-+- (and likewise for other sets of commands inside the parens, and other decimal numbers; but square brackets inside the parens must be matched) " <-- why matched < 1263322935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not < 1263322946 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For interpretation efficiency. Use % < 1263322949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :([)*2 ]] < 1263322959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "meh" < 1263322968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not very interested in talking about BF Joust to you since last time we played it you fucked up the hill < 1263322980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust discourse ((+)*127(-)*127))*394 < 1263322984 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you mean, by writing several programs? < 1263322986 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for ehird_discourse: 0.0 < 1263322995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: As I said, I am not interested in discussing this. < 1263323005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It only encouraged you then and it will only do the same now. < 1263323051 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah so I wrote more than one program. And some of them got up the hill. The source is still around. I fail to see why you didn't like me on the high score list < 1263323061 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it is just because you dislike me so < 1263323065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very nice of you < 1263323073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You will note that the other players got pissed off too, as evidenced by the log. < 1263323095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the way, submitting many trivial variations of the same program so that they all draw and, due to a scoring edge-case, stay on the hill for ages, is not playing the game. < 1263323099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure. So everybody who got pushed off the hill hates me. Bad loosers. < 1263323108 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand the rulse < 1263323114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, bbl < 1263323120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see you still thought you actually made an achievement, rather than setting up a bunch of programs that drew each other. < 1263323130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They then dropped off the hill and you accused Gregor of removing them. < 1263323168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you have serious issues regarding this; you seem to be unable to believe that you pissed other people off for a reason, subverted the rules of the game, or even that your programs were somehow anything less than great warriors that stayed on the hill because they beat other programs, which they did not. < 1263323174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: why not < 1263323188 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I didn't really read them < 1263323193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're at one end of the tape < 1263323195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the opponent is at the other < 1263323198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> means closer to opponent < 1263323201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :< means further away < 1263323204 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh but you don't know how long? < 1263323207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tape is random from 10-30 items < 1263323211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you run off the tape, you die < 1263323211 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1263323213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at each end is a flag < 1263323216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at your end is your flag < 1263323219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other end, the opponent's < 1263323223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if your flag is 0 for two cycles, you lose < 1263323227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both programs run simultaneously < 1263323234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, ] takes up a cycle < 1263323235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so [-] < 1263323237 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, goatse.cx might be NSFW if your employer's seen goatse before < 1263323237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :goes [-]-]-] < 1263323242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so -(it's zero)](the other guy loses) < 1263323244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1263323245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1263323250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's 0 for two cycles < 1263323264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: your job is to avoid your flag being zeroed and avoid going off the tape, while making your opponent do those things < 1263323270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are various strategies you can use; I won't go into them. < 1263323277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(x)*n is x, repeated n times. < 1263323290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(x{y}z)%n is x, repeated n times; y; z, repeated n times. < 1263323292 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust add [+] < 1263323292 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, exploiting loopholes in game rules is part of the fun of games. Even better if you can make them change the rules. I believe it was fairly common in IOCCC for example < 1263323294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In ({}), you can use []. < 1263323297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl again < 1263323301 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To do ()*n for loops. < 1263323311 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for soupdragon_add: 5.5 < 1263323320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, but then when everyone says "stop it, you are ruining our game", you continued to act haughty and holier-than-thou. < 1263323328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is understandable, then, that we wanted you to fuck off and stop ruining our game. < 1263323339 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop :( < 1263323339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*when everyone said < 1263323367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: don't worry, AnMaster is shit at bfjoust and has no idea how to make warriors, and minutes before flooding the hill he talked a lot about how he dislikes programming war games anyway < 1263323375 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't believe this flamefest will interrupt the game. < 1263323395 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fix the edge case? < 1263323415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it didn't matter much in practice so it was a low-priority issue once AnMaster's programs fell off the hill < 1263323508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, that would be the correct way yes. < 1263323515 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fixing bugs is always better than making a silly work around for them < 1263323538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirds suggestion is like "the correct way to fix beeps on shutdown is to blacklist the pc speaker module" < 1263323548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is how ubuntu "fixed" it < 1263323598 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1263323599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Silly work around as in "we get your point, stop exploiting it now so we can have fun" < 1263323614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's called social interaction and the instance we experienced there was known as "being an asshole". < 1263323625 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this argument between you two is stupid :P < 1263323625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :silly workaround as in not fixing the underlying issue in the code < 1263323633 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon, agreed < 1263323649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if ehird could just stop going on about it < 1263323650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : yes, I'm obviously right < 1263323654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : yes, I'm obviously right < 1263323670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, har < 1263323691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I didn't "go on about it"; I said I wsa not interested in discussing BF Joust with you because of it — the very opposite of "going on about it" — and you then whined about it. < 1263323715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, after that you did. And I do not intend to discuss this further < 1263323725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets just see if they fixed that issue I remember < 1263323732 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust invalid < < 1263323738 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for AnMaster_invalid: 0.0 < 1263323745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it wasn't that issue then < 1263323754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was one that crashed it I remember < 1263323820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool, C-x C-v RET works to reload a file in Emacs < 1263323872 0 :MizardX!n=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1263324400 0 :Gregor-L!n=Gregor@pal-163-030.itap.purdue.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1263324404 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I do delete things from the hill. < 1263324406 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the time. < 1263324408 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's how I roll. < 1263324434 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :PrimeIntellect < 1263324455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: not egotistical whatsoever < 1263324458 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur do you know feature terms? < 1263324467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-L: I'm totally working on my BF Joust implementation again. < 1263324483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-L: It's written in Go, so there's not a chance in hell of you using it, but that's okay because I'm writing my own IRC code too :P < 1263324483 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you? Totally? Really and totally and truly and totally? < 1263324487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Absolutely. < 1263324491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Definitely totally. < 1263324496 0 :PrimeIntellect!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Sgeo < 1263324504 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my god < 1263324509 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there's a Go package in Debian, I'd be willing to install it into EgoBot *shrugs* < 1263324519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-L: There isn't, but I can give you a binary. :P < 1263324536 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bleh @ binaries :P < 1263324557 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur (it's an example in these CHR notes, but apparently comes from linguistics) < 1263324562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, those are your two choices :P < 1263324652 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes and implements it himself instead.
< 1263324653 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH WAIT < 1263324656 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1263324663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawls < 1263324664 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm it looks like a synonym for feature structures < 1263324664 0 :upbeatsarcastic!n=davie_ja@cpc2-york2-0-0-cust154.leed.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1263324731 0 :upbeatsarcastic!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1263324797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Our central database master, mysql.agni, is currently running on an 8-core Xeon E5450 with 64 gigs of RAM" < 1263324801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, I want to work for Linden Labs now < 1263324843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-L: anyway installing go into a directory takes like... three commands < 1263324849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess that would TAINT YOU HORRIBLY though < 1263324861 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate second life < 1263324862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I *could* run it thorugh a Go→C compiler, after inventing one < 1263324871 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the programming language they use is such a fucking disgrace < 1263324871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: xeon with 64 fucking GiB of RAM < 1263324874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :want, no matter what < 1263324875 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, even though they use mysql? < 1263324875 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes me so angry < 1263324897 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i'm sorry did you hear < 1263324898 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they could have designed such a good language for this and it would be a real inspiration for a lot of young people < 1263324898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sixty-four < 1263324900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gibi-bytes < 1263324909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: no it wouldn't because they'd be too dumb to understand it < 1263324918 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are so clueless ehird < 1263324921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know rite < 1263324926 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no it must be GB, otherwise the would have said "gibis" not "gigs" < 1263324944 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or joking < 1263324954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :half-joking < 1263324989 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just like a huge opportunity wasted < 1263324997 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it really upsets me to think about it < 1263325004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're overreacting < 1263325011 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not acting at all < 1263325047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-L: if i code it so that you can plumb into individual matches to see why they were lost (tape boundary error, flag being zeroed) and after how many cycles is that cool < 1263325047 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: The not-for-any-serious-computing-use mostly-irssi-screens shell server -- the one that's visible in the interwebs for remote logins -- of the university is, coincidentally, also an 8-core Xseon E5450 box with 64 GiB of RAM. < 1263325061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ok i'd much rather work at your university < 1263325071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how big is it to need that many gs of ram < 1263325075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the uni tat is < 1263325077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*that < 1263325107 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird you have used the SL language right? < 1263325107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1263325109 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we have some 10k "active" students? < 1263325113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: i've seen snippets < 1263325114 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really recall. < 1263325119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1263325124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the term X where tape X = under/overflow < 1263325127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. it means either < 1263325130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tape flow? :P < 1263325131 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird well I guess if you haven't actually programmed in it then it's hard to understand what I am trying to get across < 1263325136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tape boundary oversteppingness? < 1263325205 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(811 screen sessions.) < 1263325298 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, out of bounds error? < 1263325317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: OutOfBounds would work. < 1263325324 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure it actually needs that whole 64 GiB; "free -m" says used 31864, free 30943, cached 19907; the "corrected" memory-use value on the second line is 11238. < 1263325325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming it doesn't wrap around < 1263325327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'll leave it as separate for under/overflow, though, just for the statistics porn. < 1263325359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1263325381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust test ([.]+)*99999 < 1263325382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :const ( < 1263325383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : TapeUnderflow WinReason = iota < 1263325385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : TapeOverflow < 1263325386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : FlagZeroed < 1263325388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1263325389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :type MatchResult struct { < 1263325391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Winner Warrior < 1263325392 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Reason WinReason < 1263325394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Cycles int < 1263325395 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for AnMaster_test: 7.8 < 1263325395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1263325397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most. statistics. applied. to. brainfuck. evar! < 1263325435 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually for the last 12 days we've been part of the new three-universities-combined thing, so... 16472 students using the 2008 statistics. < 1263325437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did it manage to win against ais523_vibration.bfjoust < 1263325439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is strange < 1263325456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust test (+)*99999 < 1263325473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ugh, is it "Wave" university now? < 1263325479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't want to work here any more < 1263325480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*there < 1263325487 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Yes. Wave it like you just don't care! < 1263325488 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for AnMaster_test: 7.8 < 1263325519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust test >+>+>>+<<+<<(+)*99999 < 1263325519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i guess google wave will be used for all official communications :) < 1263325521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1263325541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In January 2010 all Finnish universities will operate under a new Universities Act. This law separates universities further away from the state apparatus at least in legal and accounting terms. The state will remain the main source of funding, but universities are urged or forced to find new sources of money, especially donations from the industry. One purpose of the reform is to make university governance more clearly based on managerial ideals, adopted < 1263325543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the business world. < 1263325545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds ghastly. < 1263325550 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for AnMaster_test: 3.6 < 1263325558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bloody free market idiots < 1263325572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust test >+<(+)*99999 < 1263325579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: so en:wave == fi:alto? < 1263325586 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fi:aalto. < 1263325589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm right < 1263325591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.aalto.fi/fi/ < 1263325593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A?" < 1263325594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a retarded logo < 1263325596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did i mention < 1263325597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RETARD < 1263325600 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for AnMaster_test: 3.6 < 1263325602 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not the only logo. < 1263325610 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A!" and 'A"' are also the logo. < 1263325619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust test (-)*99999 < 1263325629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"External expectations towards the new Aalto University are high. It is supposed to be of "world-class quality" and fame by the year 2020." < 1263325630 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're supposed to be used quasi-randomly and in a uniformly distributed way. < 1263325632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's some deadline. < 1263325643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only ten years! < 1263325653 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for AnMaster_test: 7.8 < 1263325674 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty disappointed that (discounting my latex-beamer slides) most of the places where I've seen the logo use a single variant with no randomization. < 1263325689 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least my beamer template rerandomizes the logo (color + character) for each slide separately. < 1263325724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make one that's A(unicode :( ) < 1263325725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that would be distracting < 1263325731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aka "A fuck this logo" < 1263325731 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.soundcreationsinc.com/tech/splendid/grand._collection.html <-- SWEET Piano soundfont < 1263325740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SWEET penis soundfont < 1263325745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-L, argh not free < 1263325756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it is < 1263325756 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Free 72MB version < 1263325760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Free 72 MB Version < 1263325764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-L: snap < 1263325766 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh there < 1263325780 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how the heck to open sfark < 1263325787 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sfArk is annoying :( < 1263325793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm they quote the bible in their jpeg header, their non-rolled-over ARTISTS menu item is a broken image and they have "PraiseTracks" which are :jesus: < 1263325794 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: There's a 50-page "guideline" for using the logo; it absolutely forbids using just any character there. You can only use the specific typeface designed for the logo, and ("for now", they ominously say) it contains only those three official punctuation characters. < 1263325794 0 :augur!n=augur@129-2-175-65.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1263325796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lulz. < 1263325801 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a (non-F/OSS) extractor for Linux though. < 1263325808 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-L, 32-bit only iirc < 1263325823 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yup. < 1263325826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-L, is the spec closed? < 1263325828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Dude, the typeface just looks like modified Helvetica to me. < 1263325830 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty much. < 1263325832 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, once it's extracted you never need sfArk again. < 1263325841 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so the WEB SITE is stupid :P < 1263325851 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ignoring that, the soundfont is awesome. < 1263325853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Just do it in a font that looks similar; then they can't sue you because they can't copyright (black A)(sad smiley face in blue) :-P < 1263325864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-L: AND THE PEOPLE WHO MADE IT ARE STUPID :P < 1263325869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because they like Jesus, you see. < 1263325876 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Yes. < 1263325877 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, I guess you could use it, as long as you don't claim it as the Aalto logo. < 1263325878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What they should do, instead, is LOVE Jesus! < 1263325881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :♥ < 1263325886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love how Compose <3 works < 1263325913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: so the Aalto logo is a single logo, except it's quantumly superpositioned? < 1263325914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1263325928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make a program that accesses the user's webcam < 1263325935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and only fills in the second character when they look at it < 1263325943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aalto's logo is not dead < 1263325966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why doesn't compose :( work < 1263325968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1263325986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why doesn't the pi compose work, even though I restarted X since then < 1263325987 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-22-188.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1263326054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Paste your .XCompose line < 1263326061 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sec < 1263326064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Smiley faces would be nice, I should add those < 1263326071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :include "/usr/share/X11/locale/en_US.UTF-8/Compose" < 1263326071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :

: "Ď€" U03C0 # GREEK SMALL LETTER PI < 1263326081 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's all < 1263326083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Replace the first line with include "%L" < 1263326086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That way it's portable across locales < 1263326091 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also shorter, and less path-dependent < 1263326093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, okay, but ignoring that? < 1263326101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since other compose combos works < 1263326102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :work* < 1263326104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :

: "Ď€" U03C0 # GREEK SMALL LETTER PI < 1263326109 0 :Phantom_Hoover!n=chatzill@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1263326109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you save it in ~/.XCompose? < 1263326112 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1263326121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that is the file < 1263326136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No clue < 1263326139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ cat ~/.XCompose < 1263326139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :include "%L" < 1263326139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :

: "π" U03C0 # GREEK SMALL LETTER PI < 1263326140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try a full reboot :P < 1263326142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is what the file reads at < 1263326144 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as* < 1263326150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe that path doesn't exist < 1263326151 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I did that, unintentionally < 1263326155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although that's unlikely, I guess < 1263326162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But maybe "%L" will work and your old version won't < 1263326164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So try restarting X now < 1263326169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the full reboot was forced due to hardware lockup < 1263326180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when plugging in an usb device < 1263326184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :second time in a few weeks < 1263326187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and different usb devices < 1263326195 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-156-99-102.range86-156.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1263326196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe the mobo is getting glitchy < 1263326202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, even sysrq was *dead* < 1263326228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. < 1263326236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not just use your laptop and hook it up to your display/keyboard/mouse? < 1263326247 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The sysrq key? < 1263326254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alt+SysRq. < 1263326256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux magic key. < 1263326260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lets you talk directly to the kernel. < 1263326262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, becuase laptop is unable to get the resolution of the of the monitor < 1263326267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can do widescreen high res < 1263326271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but only lower res for 4:3 < 1263326274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alt+SysRq+{R,E,I,S,U,B} does a soft reboot even if your keyboard isn't being listened to by X11. < 1263326274 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't ask me why < 1263326276 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't seem to have that... I feel inadequate. < 1263326281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it just refuses to handle 1400x1050 < 1263326284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It's the Print Screen key. < 1263326285 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1263326289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also, the harddrive is smaller in it < 1263326311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Buy a hard drive enclosure and extract the disk from the desktop < 1263326312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and the sound is worse than my sb live 5.1 in my desktop < 1263326322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh < 1263326345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and there is the issue of the nvidia geforce 7600 card. Anyway I guess I will have to get a new (quieter) desktop soon < 1263326364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I don't believe you can get a new mobo with this socket any more < 1263326583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what do you call percent humdity as in the air < 1263326586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in < 1263326591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :humidity < 1263326593 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing you measure with that unit < 1263326594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :30% humidity < 1263326594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1263326607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, 11% indoors is horribly dry btw < 1263326614 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Misread somehow " I don't believe in humidity". < 1263326634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, tell me what the hamming distance is for that one < 1263326668 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what the source was. I guess it must be a combination of the "don't believe" from one line and "humdity" (hum-ditty?) from the next. < 1263326670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a mangling of two lines. < 1263326683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cue oklofok; "i don't believe in humidity". < 1263326695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :humidity* < 1263326697 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who? < 1263326731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, who what? < 1263326748 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who oklofok? < 1263326753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: … < 1263326755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GTFO :| < 1263326765 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why...? < 1263326770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darn newbs, not knowing who oklofok is 'n shizz :P < 1263326821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh Phantom_Hoover is new here < 1263326834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, look in the output of /names < 1263326835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that oklofok < 1263326915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-L: The Go problem might not actually exist, since I think BF Joust's ultra-shared-memory architecture is disagreeing with Go's message-passing :P < 1263327018 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1263327049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "go problem"? < 1263327051 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hi there < 1263327072 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi AnMaster < 1263327080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Go as in Go the language. < 1263327260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd write it in Haskell, but that sounds horrible. :) < 1263327549 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1263327729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes < 1263327735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, but why is Go a problem? < 1263327755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no debian packages, and gregor hates go so him installing it is unlikely :) < 1263327760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1263327761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(without an easy package) < 1263327770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not all that unlikely but ehh < 1263327798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'll install it when I need an app that wants to use go < 1263327808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries to remember what = vs := does
< 1263327821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, compare vs assign (pascal) < 1263327827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: if you just want to test joust warriors without spamming the hill you could just download a binary < 1263327833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is if you trust binaries me or gregor made < 1263327836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "compare"? < 1263327838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean in make < 1263327839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1263327839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I don't < 1263327844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh I told you that above < 1263327854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the first doesn't evaluate the value at assignment < 1263327856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such that < 1263327861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i recall something vaguely similar… yesterday < 1263327866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CFLAGS = $(SET_LATER) < 1263327870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SET_LATER = -O2 < 1263327870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ok, so it should be CC = gcc, not CC := gcc? :P < 1263327877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :means that CFLAGS expands to -O2 < 1263327889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, in that case it wouldn't make any difference < 1263327899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well a bit of difference < 1263327906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, with overriding CC on command line < 1263327916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc it won't work for the latter < 1263327922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not completely sure about that < 1263327935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders how bad it is to do #include "lance.c" in main.c to avoid writing an .h
< 1263327936 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, since you probably want make CC=icc to work, the former < 1263327939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :methinks "very bad" < 1263327947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, depends on your goals < 1263327974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what should I do if I want CFLAGS=foo make to append my cflags to foo, but make CFLAGS=foo to override them entirely? < 1263327979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CFLAGS +:=? :P < 1263327992 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I have no clue < 1263327999 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just do = < 1263328008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lamers who want their own cflags can do make CFLAGS=… < 1263328010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, += would append for both < 1263328019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yeah which sucks < 1263328021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't want that < 1263328028 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also isn't := gnu specific < 1263328031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't care < 1263328037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc autotools screams about it if you use it < 1263328041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is funny < 1263328049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good thing I don't use autotools < 1263328071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well the funny thing is that GNU automake tells you not to use gnu make specific syntax < 1263328119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust x . < 1263328135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you loose if program ended? < 1263328137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot < 1263328137 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for AnMaster_x: 7.8 < 1263328163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't recall < 1263328181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust x (+)*999999999999999999999999999999999 < 1263328189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate how gmake's default rules do < 1263328193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$(CFLAGS) $(CPPFLAGS) ... < 1263328195 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for AnMaster_x: 7.8 < 1263328195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that you get tons of spaces < 1263328200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why? < 1263328205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it irritates me < 1263328206 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a single space between them < 1263328211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in your paste < 1263328213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird@meson:~/src/lance$ make < 1263328214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cc -O3 -c -o lance.o lance.c < 1263328216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cc -O3 -c -o main.o main.c < 1263328218 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1263328220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$(CFLAGS) $(CPPFLAGS) $(LDFLAGS) < 1263328220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is a tab < 1263328221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1263328221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1263328224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I only use cflags... < 1263328224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : $(CFLAGS) $(CPPFLAGS) ... < 1263328227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't a tab < 1263328228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a singe space ther < 1263328229 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1263328229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a space < 1263328232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1263328234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spaces < 1263328243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well any -I and -D should be CPPFLAGS < 1263328249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I know < 1263328251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but all I do is -g or -O3 < 1263328254 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any -Wl, or -l or -L should be LDFLAGS < 1263328256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depending on if DEBUG is set < 1263328261 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so you want to break it for everyone else < 1263328266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or it could just do < 1263328272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$(if foo, spacefoo) < 1263328273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1263328275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1263328283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, would be messy < 1263328283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1263328286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody uses the default rules anyway precisely because of all the spaces < 1263328286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just do: make -s < 1263328288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1263328293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that removes helpful output < 1263328297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I use the default rules < 1263328299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact < 1263328304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no you don't, you use cmake < 1263328312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not always < 1263328317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it depends on how large the project is < 1263328325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sometimes use a simple: < 1263328334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all: foo bar < 1263328337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clean: < 1263328342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ... < 1263328347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you forgot .PHONY < 1263328349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.PHONEY: all clean < 1263328351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, -O2 < 1263328352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*PHONY < 1263328354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, "all"? < 1263328357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't you mean "executablename" < 1263328361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well there were two names there < 1263328373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and that is enough with the implicit rules < 1263328380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not if any program has more than one file < 1263328383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, true < 1263328388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I said for simple projects < 1263328398 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol if i do < 1263328401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lance: main.o < 1263328404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cc -O3 -c -o main.o main.c < 1263328405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cc -O3 lance.c main.o -o lance < 1263328411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, XD < 1263328427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lance: lance.o main.o works though < 1263328429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, do lance: lance.o main.o < 1263328431 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1263328434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1263328440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gmake should be able to automatically create a clean :( < 1263328462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly the solution is for me to write Yet Another Makefile Generator :D < 1263328474 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also I use makefiles for stuff like: *.dia -> *.svg -> *.pdf < 1263328487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or *.dot for that matter < 1263328502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*.pdf for embedding in pdftex output < 1263328523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what make is designed for < 1263328524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can embed pdf in pdf, unlike most other formats < 1263328527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, indeed < 1263328530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :automating file transformation < 1263328549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION realises he doesn't actually need clean, axes it
< 1263328554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, C -> executable is also such a transformation < 1263328557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1263328560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I find clean useful if I change the Makefile < 1263328563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can do < 1263328571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lance: lance.o main.o Makefile < 1263328572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess < 1263328585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i guess < 1263328587 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erhm no < 1263328594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lance.o wouldn't depend on Makfile there < 1263328599 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makefile* < 1263328603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%.o: Makefile < 1263328607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good point < 1263328622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also rm *.o works quite well :P < 1263328639 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, rm *.o lance you mean < 1263328641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CFLAGS = -O3 < 1263328643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lance: lance.o main.o < 1263328645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there that's nice and small < 1263328646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well yes < 1263328656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(debug compile: make CFLAGS=-g :P) < 1263328670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1263328673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using Emacs < 1263328685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c-mode has the worst indentation defaults ever < 1263328686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :halp < 1263328695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sec < 1263328709 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I suspect ais likes the defaults ;P < 1263328710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lance: lance.o main.o < 1263328711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lance.o main.o: lance.h < 1263328713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope this works < 1263328730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, he uses mixed tabs and spaces, 2-space indent, and this brace style: < 1263328731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :void f(){ < 1263328733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ...; < 1263328735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ...;} < 1263328737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-*- mode: C; coding: utf-8; tab-width: 4; indent-tabs-mode: t; c-basic-offset: 4 -*- < 1263328739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(really) < 1263328743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, there is a modline for you < 1263328749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'd prefer to just set it in my .emacs rather than clutter my files < 1263328757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1263328783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does it go again < 1263328787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :add-hook 'c-mode-hook < 1263328797 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@host86-163-47-40.range86-163.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1263328798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(custom-set-variables < 1263328798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : '(standard-indent 4) < 1263328798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : '(tab-width 4)) < 1263328802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck custom < 1263328812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I want it only for C < 1263328819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, meh < 1263328840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, one you might like: < 1263328840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(c-set-style 'k&r) < 1263328842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(setq inhibit-startup-message t) < 1263328843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it "k&r" < 1263328845 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah the latter < 1263328847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: old hat, of course I have that < 1263328853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, good < 1263328866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and (blink-cursor-mode -1) and (tool-bar-mode -1) and (menu-bar-mode -1) < 1263328876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the long snippet to move #foo# and foo~ files out of the way < 1263328904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I like my *~ < 1263328948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't. < 1263328966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(add-hook 'c-mode-hook < 1263328968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (lambda () < 1263328969 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (setq indent-tabs-mode t) < 1263328971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (c-set-style "k&r"))) < 1263328972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops, that uses tabs. < 1263328974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION untabify
< 1263329002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh sweet < 1263329009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-x C-f ~/src/lance/*.c works < 1263329031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, my c-mode-hook didn't work < 1263329051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and k&r still uses dumbfuck 5-space indentation < 1263329097 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And two idents would be 1 tab and 2 spaces? < 1263329104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :believe so < 1263329114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :emacs' way of thinking about tabs/spaces is pretty stupid < 1263329158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries c-set-style linux
< 1263329174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Much better. < 1263329175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anything wrong with tabs? < 1263329184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :??? < 1263329194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Oops, that uses tabs. < 1263329202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In elisp, yes. < 1263329207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because you don't always indent by a fixed amount. < 1263329214 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well yes < 1263329214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You align, and lambda gets two spaces, but < 1263329216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(f < 1263329217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : x) < 1263329219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gets one < 1263329220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1263329222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus, tabs are retarderated. < 1263329225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I thought that was in C? < 1263329237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[20:42] (add-hook 'c-mode-hook < 1263329238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[20:42] (lambda () < 1263329240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[20:42] (setq indent-tabs-mode t) < 1263329241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[20:42] (c-set-style "k&r"))) < 1263329242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1263329243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[20:42] Oops, that uses tabs. < 1263329244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read closer. < 1263329297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it didn't look like that here < 1263329302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (add-hook 'c-mode-hook < 1263329302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (lambda () < 1263329303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vs. < 1263329307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : [20:42] (add-hook 'c-mode-hook < 1263329307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : [20:42] (lambda () < 1263329312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, Konversation erased them on paste or something. < 1263329324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1263329335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ehh, c-mode's electric mode is rubbish. < 1263329341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't add spaces after commas or anything. < 1263329348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what was that electric mode, I don't remember < 1263329354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C is a language I use µemacs for < 1263329356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int main(){ < 1263329358 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :→ < 1263329359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int main() < 1263329361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ < 1263329362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :automatically < 1263329364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just by typing { < 1263329365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO! < 1263329367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int main() { < 1263329369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be nice, if it worked. < 1263329372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact < 1263329376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int main(void) { < 1263329380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's pointless, it gets changed automatically you idiot < 1263329380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the only True Way < 1263329383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what electric-mode does < 1263329387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, right < 1263329392 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you cannot call _anything_ that K&R did not do the True Way < 1263329393 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1263329408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, come the fuck on, Unix was the first C software < 1263329410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, True Way by Committee! < 1263329412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if ANYTHING is the true way it's what it did < 1263329423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: actually very few corporate things are written like that < 1263329428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly they use Allman style, is my impression < 1263329621 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :allman? < 1263329633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google it. < 1263329715 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1263329738 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-160-121-160.range86-160.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1263329757 0 :augur!n=augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1263329758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah, Emacs is not nearly hyper enough. < 1263329765 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is AnMaster turning into me? < 1263329854 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1263329858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1263329865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, AnMaster has never googled for things. < 1263329942 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People are dropping left and right... < 1263329990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION drops
< 1263329998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: who are you, anyway? < 1263330000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :witch! < 1263330015 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :New Now Know How sounds familiar < 1263330020 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host81-129-119-251.range81-129.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1263330031 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1263330055 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nm < 1263330083 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i must be turning into ehird, i googled it. < 1263330089 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'm just zis guy, you know? < 1263330094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chatzilla default message :P < 1263330097 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1263330109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: right right. wait, you're not the guy who made Esme, are you? just checking. < 1263330114 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esme? < 1263330118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1263330123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: the worst esolang ever created < 1263330132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Esme < 1263330137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it can even be considered a language < 1263330141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaningless as it is < 1263330173 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" This article is a stub, which means that it is not detailed enough and needs to be expanded. Please help us by adding some more information." now now, I don't think that page needs expanding at *all* < 1263330199 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the hell does it do? < 1263330211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EXACTLY < 1263330212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We don't know < 1263330216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty sure he's just a troll < 1263330222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's amazing how... informationless... he made it < 1263330234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You literally cannot infer a single thing from the page < 1263330263 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Success < 1263330278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweet, installing manpages-posix-dev makes `man foo.h` work. < 1263330292 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hashes makes little more sense... < 1263330364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, rosegarden depends on kdialog for export/import < 1263330367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is just crazy < 1263330443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, i hate getopt_long's api < 1263330527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION just writes a manual loop rather than futz with it
< 1263330554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, don't use getopt_long < 1263330556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use getopt < 1263330561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No; I want long options. < 1263330563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more portable < 1263330566 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, fine < 1263330568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't give a fuck. < 1263330591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I wish there was an option parser that also did argument parsing. < 1263330597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be nice. < 1263330679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems like http://argtable.sf.net/ does that, but I don't like the syntax. < 1263330804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, that soundfont was indeed good < 1263330813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"BUT NOT ANY MORE!" < 1263330828 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :har < 1263330838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, you could have things like: < 1263330849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OPTION(name) < 1263330855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that did __typeof__(name), say char * < 1263330859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to infer what kind of argument it is < 1263330866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*does < 1263330868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and generates --name < 1263330872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, gcc has it's own language just to describe command line options iirc < 1263330913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps if it did the declaration too < 1263330921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FLAG(int, verbose) < 1263330924 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OPTION(char *, name) < 1263330930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OPTION_DEFAULT(char *, name, "fred") < 1263330996 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This paper presents a method for creating formally correct just-in-time (JIT) compilers < 1263330998 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woah < 1263331009 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1263331014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, it could even let you pass a function as the third argument to OPTION_DEFAULT. < 1263331022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, wait < 1263331026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :types are post-cpp, darn < 1263331064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, know any way to load more than one sound font at once into sb live cards? < 1263331077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, so I can get non-piano from another soundfont < 1263331112 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1263331315 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh too little ram to load both at once < 1263331805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God I hate C's string handling. < 1263331847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even writing (dirname(argv[0]) ~ "/hill"), where ~ = string concatenation, is a pain in the arse! < 1263331893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do the basename, strlen it, add strlen("/hill") to it, allocate a new string, strcpy them in. < 1263331894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FML < 1263332054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FML? < 1263332059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck My Life < 1263332066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, in other languages, writing the command-line interface is nice relaxing busywork before tackling the real problems < 1263332066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh thought it was "language" < 1263332070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in C it's the opposite! < 1263332072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: also that XD < 1263332087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int main(int argc, char *argv[]) < 1263332088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ < 1263332090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return 0; < 1263332091 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1263332093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that will do for now < 1263332098 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what does the app do? < 1263332106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BF Joust < 1263332113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sieve and Kettle are back! Polarity FUCK YEAH! < 1263332134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are you doing dirname(argv[0]) ~ "/hill" < 1263332144 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, 1) argv[0] may or may not contain the path < 1263332159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2) whats wrong with current working directory < 1263332169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) bah, you're right < 1263332174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2) because that isn't what i want < 1263332192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"lance prog" battles prog against the entire hill; you can set that with --hill < 1263332198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) of course I'm right < 1263332199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but by default it's that directory < 1263332211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"lance prog1 prog2" battles the two, and ignores the hill, so it doesn't matter there < 1263332217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess lance prog1 prog2 prog3... will work too < 1263332256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, if you are linux specific: < 1263332276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll do Go but ignore the concurrency part < 1263332282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has string concatenation! < 1263332286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/proc/self/exe < 1263332293 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1263332305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: lol. < 1263332306 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help languages < 1263332306 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh. < 1263332308 0 :soupdragon!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1263332314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm? < 1263332325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because the code to open and read that file will be *even bigger* < 1263332401 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help < 1263332402 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help . < 1263332417 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help userinterps < 1263332417 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :userinterps: Users can add interpreters written in any of the languages in !help languages. See !help addinterp, delinterp, show | !userinterps. List interpreters added with !addinterp. < 1263332418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it's a symlink < 1263332438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: x_x < 1263332438 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!userinterps < 1263332438 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Installed user interpreters: aol austro b1ff bc bct bfbignum brit brooklyn bypass_ignore chef chiqrsx9p choo cockney ctcp dc drawl dubya echo eehird ehird fudd funetak google graph gregor hello id jethro kraut num ook pansy pirate plot postmodern postmodern_aoler redneck reverse rot13 sadbf sfedeesh sffedeesh sffffedeesh sffffffffedeesh slashes svedeesh swedish valspeak warez yodawg < 1263332440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crazy < 1263332446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what? < 1263332454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, okay, not crazy. < 1263332467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe you can use stat() < 1263332468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should write yet another string library for C. You know, because I hate myself :P < 1263332474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: readlink(), rather < 1263332495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah yes that is it < 1263332500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stat(1) does it iirc < 1263332536 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help < 1263332536 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help . < 1263332540 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!info < 1263332540 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot is a bot for running programs in esoteric programming languages. If you'd like to add support for your language to EgoBot, check out the source via mercurial at https://codu.org/projects/egobot/hg/ . Cheers and patches (preferably hg bundles) can be sent to Richards@codu.org , PayPal donations can be sent to AKAQuinn@hotmail.com , complaints can be sent to /dev/null < 1263332546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :readlink("/proc/self/exe", "/", 1) = 1 < 1263332546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :readlink("/proc/self/exe", "/u", 2) = 2 < 1263332546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :readlink("/proc/self/exe", "/usr", 4) = 4 < 1263332546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :readlink("/proc/self/exe", "/usr/bin", 8) = 8 < 1263332546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :readlink("/proc/self/exe", "/usr/bin/stat", 16) = 13 < 1263332550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how inefficient < 1263332636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it doesn't null terminate < 1263332643 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help help < 1263332643 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help . < 1263332651 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help interp < 1263332651 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, I have no help for interp! < 1263332657 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help bf < 1263332657 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, I have no help for bf! < 1263332676 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!languages < 1263332695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help userinterps < 1263332695 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :userinterps: Users can add interpreters written in any of the languages in !help languages. See !help addinterp, delinterp, show | !userinterps. List interpreters added with !addinterp. < 1263332699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help languages < 1263332700 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh. < 1263332713 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!lazyk < 1263332715 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Couldn't fork sub-program. < 1263332722 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, you need to give it code < 1263332761 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but the cat program in Lazy K is an empty file. < 1263332776 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hm report a bug to Gregor < 1263332781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or use the url variant < 1263332787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to link to an empty file < 1263332821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh cat /dev/null >butt < 1263332821 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/tmp/input.11852: line 1: butt: Permission denied < 1263332823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh cat butt < 1263332824 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/bin/cat: butt: No such file or directory < 1263332825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit < 1263332828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh cat /dev/null | lazyk < 1263332829 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/tmp/input.11907: line 1: lazyk: command not found < 1263332830 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw < 1263332840 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh ls < 1263332841 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interps < 1263332847 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh ls .. < 1263332847 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :multibot_cmds < 1263332848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo "try this" < 1263332848 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"try this" < 1263332852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ^ < 1263332871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh pwd < 1263332871 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/home/egobot/egobot.hg/multibot_cmds < 1263332880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh ls ~ < 1263332881 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :egobot.hg < 1263332885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh ls / < 1263332885 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin < 1263332904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh ls / | tr -d $'\n' < 1263332905 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bindevetchomeliblib64proctmpusr < 1263332905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ego != Hack < 1263332910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh ls / | tr $'\n' ' ' < 1263332911 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin dev etc home lib lib64 proc tmp usr < 1263332913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh ls < 1263332913 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interps < 1263332916 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh ls interps < 1263332917 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1l < 1263332920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh ls | tr $'\n' ' ' < 1263332921 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interps lib slox < 1263332925 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh ls interps/lazyk < 1263332926 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh ls ~ | tr $'\n' ' ' < 1263332927 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :USED_VERSION < 1263332927 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :egobot.hg < 1263332938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh ls interps/lazyk | tr $'\n' ' ' < 1263332939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh interps/lazyk/lazy < 1263332939 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :USED_VERSION lazy lazy.cpp primes.lazy < 1263332948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh interps/lazyk/lazy --help | tr $'\n' ' ' < 1263332949 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usage: lazy [-b] { -e program | program-file.lazy } * -b puts stdin and stdout into binary mode on systems that care (i.e. Windows) -e program takes program code from the command line (like Perl's -e switch) program-file.lazy name of file containing program code If more than one -e or filename argument is given, the programs will be combined by functional composition (but in Unix pipe order, < 1263332949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, note it gives you only one line < 1263332955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1263332956 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!lazyk < 1263332956 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Couldn't fork sub-program. < 1263332957 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`k``s``si`k``s`k```sii``s``s`kski``s``s`ksk``s``s`ksk```s``siii``s``s`kski`k``s``si`k``s``s`ksk```s``s`kski``s`k``s``s`kski``s``s`ksk```sii``s``s`kski`k``s``si`k``s`k```sii``s``s`kski```sii``s``s`ksk``s``s`kski`k``s``si`k``s`k```sii``s``s`kski```sii``s``s`ksk``s``s`kski`k``s``si`k``s``s`ksk``s`k``s``s`kski``s``s`ksk``s`k``s``s`kski```sii``s``s`ksk``s``s`kski`k``s``si`k````s``s`ksk```s``siii``s``s` < 1263332958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh interps/lazyk/lazy -e '' | tr $'\n' ' ' < 1263332958 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1263332959 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kski`s``s`ksk```sii``s``s`ksk``s``s`kski`k``s``si`k``s`k``s``s`kski```s``siii``s``s`kski`k``s``si`k``s`k``s``s`ksk``s`k``s``s`kski < 1263332961 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :``s``s`ksk``s``s`kski``s``s`ksk```s``siii``s``s`kski`k``s``si`k``s``s`ksk``s`k``s``s`kski``s``s`ksk``s`k``s``s`kski```sii``s``s`ksk``s``s`kski`k``s``si`k``s`k``s``s`kski``s``s`ksk``s`k``s``s`kski``s``s`ksk```sii``s``s`ksk``s``s`kski`k``s``si`k``s`k```sii``s``s`kski```sii``s``s`ksk``s``s`kski`k``s``si`k```s``s`kski``s`k``s``s`kski``s``s`ksk```sii``s``s`kski`k``s``si`k``s``s`ksk``s`k``s``s`kski```s` < 1263332962 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1263332962 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`siii``s``s`kski`k``s``si`k``s`k``s``s`kski``s``s`ksk```sii``s``s`kski`k``s``si`k```sii```sii``s``s`kski`k```sii```sii``s``s`kski < 1263332963 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1263332964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: sigh. < 1263332966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :noobs. < 1263332967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pastebin.ca < 1263332969 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use it < 1263332973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then !lazyk url < 1263332978 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :siisii! < 1263332993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon, :D < 1263333026 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!lazyk http://pastebin.ca/1748851 < 1263333028 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Couldn't fork sub-program. < 1263333041 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Reboot" < 1263333063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you must link to the raw version < 1263333077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!lazyk http://pastebin.ca/raw/1748851 < 1263333078 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Couldn't fork sub-program. < 1263333081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :borken < 1263333087 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh ls < 1263333088 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interps < 1263333093 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh ls interps < 1263333093 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1l < 1263333118 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1263333133 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh ls interps/lazyk < 1263333133 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :USED_VERSION < 1263333166 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh ls interps/lazyk/lazy -e "`k``s``si`k``s`k```sii``s``s`kski``s``s`ksk``s``s`ksk```s``siii``s``s`kski`k``s``si`k``s``s`ksk```s``s`kski``s`k``s``s`kski``s``s`ksk```sii``s``s`kski`k``s``si`k``s`k```sii``s``s`kski```sii``s``s`ksk``s``s`kski`k``s``si`k``s`k```sii``s``s`kski```sii``s``s`ksk``s``s`kski`k``s``si`k``s``s`ksk``s`k``s``s`kski``s``s`ksk``s`k``s``s`kski```sii``s``s`ksk``s``s`kski`k``s``si` < 1263333167 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/tmp/input.12798: line 1: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `"' < 1263333168 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k````s``s`ksk```s``siii``s``s`kski`s``s`ksk```sii``s``s`ksk``s``s`kski`k``s``si`k``s`k``s``s`kski```s``siii``s``s`kski`k``s``si`k``s`k``s``s`ksk``s`k``s``s`kski``s``s`ksk``s``s`kski``s``s`ksk```s``siii``s``s`kski`k``s``si`k``s``s`ksk``s`k``s``s`kski``s``s`ksk``s`k``s``s`kski```sii``s``s`ksk``s``s`kski`k``s``si`k``s`k``s``s`kski``s``s`ksk``s`k``s``s`kski``s``s`ksk```sii``s``s`ksk``s``s`kski`k``s``s < 1263333169 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i`k``s`k```sii``s``s`kski```sii``s``s`ksk``s``s`kski`k``s``si`k```s``s`kski``s`k``s``s`kski``s``s`ksk```sii``s``s`kski`k``s``si`k``s``s`ksk``s`k``s``s`kski```s``siii``s``s`kski`k``s``si`k``s`k``s``s`kski``s``s`ksk```sii``s``s`kski`k``s``si`k```sii```sii``s``s`kski`k```sii```sii``s``s`kski" < 1263333176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop it < 1263333178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for fuck's sake < 1263333181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it won't fit on one irc line < 1263333182 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry! < 1263333185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1263333187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't mind me < 1263333189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just grumpy < 1263333195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm in a grumpytacular mood < 1263333197 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.7/20100106054534]" < 1263333206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I'm not now, because I read the word grumpytacular < 1263333210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey i never said you should leave < 1263333215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i'm grumpy again < 1263333260 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wants to un-grumpify ehird, but I tend to make ehird grumpy, I think
< 1263333333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: make a haskell program and i'll be happy < 1263333335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like haskell programs < 1263333374 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1263333394 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell = "sucks" < 1263333396 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hapy??? < 1263333422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soupdragon: that is not a haskell program < 1263333423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you suck < 1263333432 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is that not a haskell program? < 1263333476 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no main function < 1263333504 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a function that I forgot the name and type of < 1263333514 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: how useful < 1263333532 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main = id < 1263333541 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is a cat program, iirc < 1263333572 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interact < 1263333581 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. And obviously it doesn't start with c < 1263333596 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION 's memory is obviously broken
< 1263333606 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scrambled, possibly < 1263333608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interact :: (String → String) → String < 1263333616 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1263333620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1263333621 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.haskell.org/hoogle/?hoogle=interact < 1263333621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :→ IO () < 1263333626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should have made :: the unicode character, but my Compose doesn't have it < 1263333647 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Haskell actually accept arrows like that? I doubt it < 1263333678 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i understand ghc has some unicode extensions < 1263333698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yes < 1263333706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you enable it < 1263333791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool ]{}[ isn't registered :D < 1263334170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :info ] < 1263334170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :opos < 1263334170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1263334170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://community.haskell.org/~ndm/cmdargs/ � this is super-rad < 1263334170 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1263334170 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@kosh.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1263334170 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1263334170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: is coadjute abandoned? < 1263334228 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All my Haskell stuff has been semi-abandoned lately < 1263334228 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1263334255 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just curious < 1263334256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Why?) < 1263334319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s(int*a,int b){int t=*a;--b?s(a+1,b),a[(*a=1[a])a[1]?z=a[1],*a=a[1],a[1]=z:s(a+1);} < 1263335012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does a&&b?c:d work? < 1263335015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a&&(b?c:d) < 1263335018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even with commas < 1263335030 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?: has lower precedence < 1263335032 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So no < 1263335045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about a?b?c:d:0 :P < 1263335051 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That works < 1263335055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As what? < 1263335059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a?(b?c:d):0? < 1263335061 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As the only thing it can work as < 1263335069 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True that. < 1263335077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s(int*a){*a?*a>a[1]?z=a[1],*a=a[1],a[1]=z:s(a+1):0;} < 1263335083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This has one flaw: It fails on "0". < 1263335086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But who uses that number? < 1263335091 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait. < 1263335098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s(int*a){~*a?*a>a[1]?z=a[1],*a=a[1],a[1]=z:s(a+1):0;} < 1263335102 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, now it can't sort the maximum integer. < 1263335112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apart from that it's pea-chy < 1263335130 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need to declare that z methinks < 1263335138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tru dat < 1263335154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, and I can't use C99-style declarations either < 1263335156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because < 1263335160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int z=a[1],... < 1263335162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd have to be < 1263335166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(int z=a[1]),... < 1263335194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from make output: ./compiletex font.tex font.h font < 1263335196 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Declarations aren't expressions :-P < 1263335198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really confused me that < 1263335203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I realised tex = texture < 1263335207 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not TeX < 1263335208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Tru dat < 1263335217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, I just realised the xor swap must work in thiscase. < 1263335221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because > therefore !=. < 1263335236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's three chars shorter than declaring a variable < 1263335255 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, two. < 1263335259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No wait, 1. < 1263335276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s(int*a){*~a?*a>a[1]?*a^=a[1],a[1]^=*a,*a^=a[1]:s(a+1):0;} < 1263335278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops < 1263335281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s(int*a){~*a?*a>a[1]?*a^=a[1],a[1]^=*a,*a^=a[1]:s(a+1):0;} < 1263335364 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How's that going to sort {3,4,1,2}? < 1263335381 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :({3,4,1,2,~0}) < 1263335391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, too tired to work it out, what does it do? < 1263335398 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Oh, you're right < 1263335402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to recurse even if I do swap < 1263335405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No cookie for you < 1263335417 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does one pass of bubble sort or suchlike < 1263335419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, fine *half asleep* < 1263335444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s(int*a){~*a?*a>a[1]?*a^=a[1],a[1]^=*a,*a^=a[1]:0,s(a+1):0} < 1263335474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming that a?b?c,d:e,f:g parses as a?((b?(c,d):e),f):g < 1263335475 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1263335478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which it probably… doesn't. < 1263335479 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just changed the :s(a+1) case to :0,s(a+1)? < 1263335492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s(int*a){~*a?(*a>a[1]?*a^=a[1],a[1]^=*a,*a^=a[1]:0),s(a+1):0;} < 1263335496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There, properly parenised. < 1263335522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Rather, if we're not at the end of the list, we always go on one < 1263335527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :regardless of our swapping < 1263335536 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since you need those parens it'll probably be shorter with an if < 1263335544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm wait < 1263335548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if ~*a but ~a[1] < 1263335549 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: That's still O(n) :-P < 1263335551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better make it ~a[1] < 1263335559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Gah, you're right < 1263335560 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You aren't going to sort anything in O(n) < 1263335571 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not with comparisons anyway. < 1263335577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bubble_sort < 1263335583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just stupidly copying wp's pseudocode < 1263335584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without, you know < 1263335586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reading it < 1263335590 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1263335597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'l do pigeonhole sort < 1263335598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*I'll < 1263335601 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do selection sort or something instead, bubble sort sux < 1263335606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or whatever < 1263335612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I'm not concerned about performance < 1263335617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CONCISION IS EVERYTHING < 1263335622 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neither am I < 1263335643 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can never remember how bubble sort works but selection sort can be described in less than five words < 1263335647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int foo[max value in array], when you find n do foo[n]++, reassemble array < 1263335652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ehh, too much overhead < 1263335664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Do so, then :D < 1263335699 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Repeatedly fetch the minimum" conveys the point well enough < 1263335734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, merge sort for the win < 1263335762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :split, recurse, swap, merge < 1263335788 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Swap? < 1263335808 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, innermost layer < 1263335841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I guess you could split into 1, and then merge those < 1263335843 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, there's no swap < 1263335849 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly < 1263336491 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1263336596 0 :soupdragon!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1263336632 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1263337139 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1263337196 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: while not sorted, loop through array, swapping adjacent pairs in correct order. < 1263337230 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1263337271 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe slightly harder to remember than bubble sort, but i'm not sure it's a great argument that it's hard to remember how it works < 1263337300 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It wasn't really an argument for anything < 1263337309 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose, neither was mine < 1263337340 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i win < 1263337342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is bubble sort < 1263337347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"slightly harder to remember than bubble sort" < 1263337349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU MADE AN ERROR < 1263337351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you lose < 1263337354 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1263337362 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose < 1263337378 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you now have only 13096 tries left < 1263337419 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i win. < 1263337430 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that remains to be seen < 1263337479 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: yeah, that is exactly bubble sort < 1263337486 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least it's not bogosort < 1263337548 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although you need to specify the direction of looping, if you want multiple bubbles, you will need to loop from end to beginning < 1263337549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy shit < 1263337551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you use wall(1) in kde < 1263337554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it comes up in the notification area < 1263337556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1263337574 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise it's basically selection < 1263337640 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err wait it's symmetric < 1263337671 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so nevermind that. in any case it is quite similar to selection sort < 1263337683 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err... no < 1263337697 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION stops failing at philosophy of sorting algorithms
< 1263337727 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1263337727 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1263337727 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1263337728 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1263337728 0 :yiyus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1263337728 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1263337729 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1263337729 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1263337729 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1263337729 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1263337729 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1263337729 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1263337729 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1263337729 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1263337756 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: write too < 1263337777 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though since it goes a message per line, it's not great < 1263337837 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@kosh.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1263337837 0 :FireFly!n=firefly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1263337837 0 :anmaster_l!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1263337837 0 :lifthrasiir!i=cbxvpLMT@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1263337837 0 :olsner!n=salparot@c83-252-238-148.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1263337837 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-192-33.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1263337837 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1263337837 0 :EgoBot!n=EgoBot@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1263337837 0 :mycroftiv!n=infernus@h69-128-47-243.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1263337873 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1263337873 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1263337873 0 :comex!i=comex@c-98-210-192-54.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1263337873 0 :fungot!n=fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1263337873 0 :yiyus!i=12427124@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric < 1263337894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa. < 1263337899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish the fish shell had less flaws :< < 1263337903 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate using traditional shells < 1263338399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what flaws? < 1263338418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, for instance, setting a variable for the duration of one command is a bitch < 1263338425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1263338432 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to do env x=y ... < 1263338434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe < 1263338448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woot, J works nicely on Kubuntu < 1263338453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*in Kubuntu, I guess. < 1263338501 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :under Kubuntu < 1263338795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god, J comes with a package browser for all kinds of stuff < 1263338798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome < 1263338805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's even updates of the base library < 1263339058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should do some sort of specifying of the poop language. < 1263339100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pathological Objects Osomething Psomething. < 1263339153 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pathological Object Oriented Programming < 1263339172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, that'd be a good one; it isn't OOP in the slightest, but it has "objects" < 1263339176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the language is oriented around them < 1263339187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's similar to what my impression of DOBELA is given only Deewiant's probing about it < 1263339353 0 :anmaster_l!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1263339354 0 :augur!n=augur@208-59-119-22.c3-0.161-ubr1.lnh-161.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1263339457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, you have little particles that go in directions, and there are mirrors they can bounce off < 1263339468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if two particles collide, they shoot off some different particles < 1263339476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are sinks and stuff that they can fall into to do things < 1263339829 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nothing makes sense < 1263339879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poop makes sense < 1263339924 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: what's the gesture that does the exposé-type thing in kde < 1263339927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i keep doing it by mistake < 1263339941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah go to top-left and scroll mouse < 1263339943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obvious :P < 1263339949 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_o < 1263339957 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just use the screen edges < 1263339966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I just didn't hit the edge fast enough < 1263339970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except when scrolling < 1263339973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as an entirely incidental thing < 1263340401 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Particles Out Of Place < 1263340494 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1263340501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it can have multiple expansions! < 1263340796 0 :augur_!n=augur@208-59-119-22.c3-0.161-ubr1.lnh-161.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1263341162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :frantk < 1263341246 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1263341247 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :frantically frank < 1263341301 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pants, Orifice, Ogle, Petunias < 1263341320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Path Only Ousted Pathetically < 1263341346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Parenthically, Oxygen-Oxen Pack < 1263342394 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :augur < 1263342535 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pint of Oil Pellets < 1263343049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1263343989 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1263345949 0 :augur_!n=augur@208-59-119-22.c3-0.161-ubr1.lnh-161.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1263346122 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1263346560 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1263346804 0 :augur_!n=augur@208-59-119-22.c3-0.161-ubr1.lnh-161.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1263348110 0 :jpc!n=jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1263348341 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1263348981 0 :oklofok!n=oklopol@a91-153-117-63.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1263353417 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1263355539 0 :iamcal!n=cal@c-69-181-46-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1263355975 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1263356480 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"I am leaving. You are about to explode." < 1263356730 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1263358369 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1263359146 0 :calamari_!n=calamari@ip72-211-146-211.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1263359163 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1263360134 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"I am leaving. You are about to explode." < 1263364438 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1263365496 0 :jpc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1263365636 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1263367258 0 :FireFly!n=firefly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1263368657 0 :Guest52322!n=gil@150.7.233.220.static.exetel.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1263368962 0 :Guest52322!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1263369599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1263369600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1263369772 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1263369823 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1263372352 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1263373274 0 :anmaster_l!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1263373750 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"I am leaving. You are about to explode." < 1263374319 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1263376097 0 :ais523!n=ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1263379672 0 :soupdragon!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1263380373 0 :somebody_!n=somebody@amcant.demon.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1263380381 0 :somebody_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1263380419 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1263380435 0 :soupdragon!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1263380496 0 :Slereah_!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-40-180.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1263381203 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1263381375 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1263381642 0 :iamcal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1263382093 0 :ais523!n=ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1263382860 0 :fizziexn900!n=fizziexn@62.237.152.36 JOIN :#esoteric < 1263382883 0 :fizziexn900!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Had to test this Maemo X-Chat port.) < 1263382992 0 :fizziexn900!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks as if they haven't really bothered much with the ports; seems to be pretty close to the usual X-Chat ui. < 1263383063 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that work well on a Maemo? < 1263383119 0 :fizziexn900!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not very. Of course it's a bit maemoized by the system itself. < 1263383209 0 :fizziexn900!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's rather stylus-only like this, though. All scrolling is with tiny scrollbars that are not finger-friendly at all. < 1263383284 0 :fizziexn900!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It really should have the kinetic scrolling used in everywhere else. (Except all the other places where it's missing.) < 1263383446 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not so sure about those default colors either: http://www.cis.hut.fi/htkallas/maemo-xchat.png < 1263383480 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll stick with xterm and SSH. < 1263383494 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, that's insane < 1263383511 0 :fizziexn900!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"it is no good!" < 1263383624 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders why the easter egg found in Chrome is so nonsensical
< 1263385367 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it that "goats teleported" thing? That seems to be the new thing. < 1263385496 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1263385518 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, why are goat teleportation stats meant to be funny? surely they could have thought up a better one than that... < 1263385817 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, and it's just a randomly incrementing number? < 1263385822 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not fun. < 1263385829 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1263386365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, isn't it memory stat or such? < 1263386371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hidden under a nonsensical name < 1263386391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bug report is pretty funny though < 1263386525 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, they just add rand()%4096 IIRC < 1263386533 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Don't know when or how often) < 1263386601 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, the should be taking the /high/ bits of rand < 1263386603 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*they < 1263386769 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://src.chromium.org/viewvc/chrome/trunk/src/chrome/browser/task_manager.cc grep ceGoats < 1263387050 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That has apparently changed, since http://www.sorcerers-isle.net/article/goats_teleported.html lacks the &4095. < 1263387105 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And is a bit different in other respects too.) < 1263388293 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1263388450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, if rand isn't random enough in the low bits, it is a broken implementation < 1263388486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also I heard suggestions that the mid-bits were even better < 1263388488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot where < 1263388580 0 :Sgeo_!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1263388641 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1263389154 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.dina.kvl.dk/~abraham/religion/one-true-editor.html < 1263389203 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think people normally get into holy wars about individual versions of Emacs... < 1263389206 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also, seen it before) < 1263389621 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wondering if there was any precedent for that < 1263389663 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1263389922 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1263389993 0 :soupdragon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1263391501 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1263393314 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1263393742 0 :soupdragon!n=somebody@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1263394484 0 :MizardX!n=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1263396201 0 :AnMaster_!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1263396221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection reset by peer < 1263396493 0 :AnMaster_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :AnMaster < 1263398402 0 :FireFly!n=firefly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1263398627 0 :MizardX-!n=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1263398632 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1263398663 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MizardX < 1263399028 0 :fadein!i=fadein@static-ip-62-75-255-124.inaddr.server4you.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1263399043 0 :fadein!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1263401151 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1263401562 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Verlassend" < 1263402043 0 :MigoMipo!i=kvirc@94.191.174.145.bredband.tre.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1263402468 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1263403608 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection reset by peer < 1263404218 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@75-106-100-139.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1263404666 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, that compose + < + 3 → ♥ thing made me go look at that default Compose file; the one immediately above that rule is equally frivolous: