< 1264377709 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip72-211-150-114.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1264378262 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thinks up the next great Apple feature: sub-pixel mouse positioning.
< 1264378281 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the fuck am I doing? < 1264378284 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to bed. < 1264378328 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : total used free shared buffers cached < 1264378328 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mem: 12040 11973 67 0 196 10184 < 1264378328 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-/+ buffers/cache: 1592 10448 < 1264378335 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, memory crisis < 1264378366 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a lot of RAM. < 1264378379 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmhmm < 1264380703 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1264380870 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@75-106-100-139.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1264381021 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: That is not a memory crisis. That is a cache. < 1264381055 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehm < 1264381057 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :logread < 1264381201 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1264383444 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now soliciting opinions on http://codu.org/music/vg/zee1.ogg (which is supposed to be semi-retro video-game-music-ish) < 1264383534 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no drums? < 1264383544 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT DOES NOT COUNT AS AN OPINION < 1264383611 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds kinda general midi <- is this an opinion? < 1264383627 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is GM, 's all I've got (I refuse to use loops) < 1264383661 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I just frankly don't want to take the time and effort to go hunting for soundfonts, put them all together, and then render something that's questionably not legal for me to redistribute anyway. < 1264383667 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get some free vsts if your sequencer supports them? < 1264383714 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what to say because for retro video game music I use trackers < 1264383742 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I generally compose music of a less synthesized style :P < 1264383770 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And I compose it for human beings, eliminating the issue of making the computer make the right sounds) < 1264383786 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the square wave does sound out of it's place < 1264383862 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really? I sort of liked the contrast. < 1264383910 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds fine. < 1264383937 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Almost a standard of NES music. :P < 1264383977 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, nes music tends to be more bass+drums+stuff < 1264383983 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because otherwise it's too thin < 1264384187 0 :jpc!n=jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1264384630 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Replacing the square wave by an accordion results in pretty much pure awesomeness. < 1264384712 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may actually do that :P < 1264384775 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mainly it's awesome because a simple do-do-so-do on an accordion = polka < 1264385215 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1264385226 0 :augur!n=augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1264385264 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1264386274 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, i think it could do with an accordion < 1264386319 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries From Hell to Heaven
< 1264386329 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like it looks easier than it looks < 1264386336 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Solved by 1 players" < 1264386416 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, no < 1264386500 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link? < 1264386540 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://robozzle.com/puzzle.aspx?id=1010 < 1264386615 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boo, no js version < 1264386630 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, there is one < 1264386632 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks
< 1264386644 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait, there isn't < 1264386693 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://robozzle.com/js < 1264386814 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but no js version of that puzzle < 1264386864 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, click one of the other puzzles, and put 1010 into there < 1264386879 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes puzzles are hidden due to not getting good ratings < 1264386889 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1264386911 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has had issues with the JS client, actually
< 1264386927 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, if the robot dies off the edge, I can't restart the puzzle without refreshing the page < 1264386936 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hit stop < 1264386954 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1264386957 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't work < 1264387269 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be silly for music to be illegal to distribute due to being made out of copyrighted soundfonts. < 1264387342 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a derivative work. < 1264387351 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you sure? < 1264387363 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How could it not be? < 1264387420 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soundfonts have weird copyright stuff < 1264387440 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There would probably be some law stating it's not a derivative work. < 1264387442 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if they copyrighted the samples on synths people couldn't use them in music < 1264387460 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously not good for roland < 1264387470 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is where your samples probably come from anyways < 1264387514 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mine are all public domain, it's the Chorium soundfont. < 1264387534 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, there's fair use. < 1264387582 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is especially amusing when compared with actual fonts... < 1264387584 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which cannot be copyrighted. < 1264387585 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1264387586 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair use has to do with how much of the work you use. When the work is a soundfont, and you used it to render music, you've used a lot of it. < 1264387596 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure it's difficult to argue that using a soundfont in a piece of music and distributing the piece diminishes the value of the soundfont. < 1264387626 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I've heard that before, but I think I tried to verify it and wasn't able to. < 1264387626 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the actual font *file* can be copyrighted, though; it counts as a computer program.) < 1264387766 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.loc.gov/cgi-bin/formprocessor/copyright/cfr.pl?&urlmiddle=1.0.2.6.2.0.174.1&part=202§ion=1&prev=&next=2 < 1264387820 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(e) Typeface as typeface. < 1264387832 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, typeface as candy can by copyrighted. < 1264387837 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahahah. < 1264387848 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, a candy mold of a typeface could be copyrighted. < 1264387856 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But someone could carve their own mold. < 1264387883 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So could I create a new file of an existing font, using the font file as my only reference? < 1264387924 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So long as you actually *create* the new file, rather than deriving it, yes. < 1264387953 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The font file merely describes how to render a typeface. You can look at the rendered typeface and imitate that just fine. < 1264387990 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note: it'll still be a derived work in Europe. < 1264388031 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there legally a difference between copying the file and simply creating an identical one? < 1264388043 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1264388057 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first is a derived work. < 1264388062 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The second is a bizarre coincidence. < 1264388086 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I should say... < 1264388092 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I accidentally write a novel that's exactly equal to some Harry Potter book I haven't read, but with "Harry Potter" replaced by "Dodifer Fleghermaier", that's legal. Hard to prove though. < 1264388133 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unlike patent law. < 1264388142 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yesh < 1264388144 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Between copying parts of the file, and looking at a part of the file, rendering it, and derendering it such that the new part is identical to the old one. < 1264388150 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you invent something that was invented and patented last year, you're screwed. < 1264388176 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: If you invent something that was invented and patented twelve seconds ago, you're screwed :P < 1264388177 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: If it's an automatic process, probably derived. < 1264388183 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Quite. < 1264388212 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if I invent something for which a patent was applied yesterday, but which has not yet been revealed to the public? < 1264388214 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck, if the patent application was done by someone else a month after you, you're screwed. < 1264388243 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(needs to be a year prior to be prior art. Yes, really.) < 1264388245 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ideally, if I do that, the law automatically changes such that the patent is invalid. < 1264388271 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...So I can invent someone and then someone else can patent it? < 1264388283 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not the purpose of patent law < 1264388290 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1264388294 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/one/thing/ < 1264388295 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I invented it, too, right after he told me how he invented it." < 1264388298 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the purpose of copyright and patent laws are actually different < 1264388301 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Gracenotes addicted yet? < 1264388316 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Yes. And that's tangential. < 1264388325 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not < 1264388369 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the purpose of copyright law is to give someone assurance that only they may profit from a work < 1264388378 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something can be nuts even if it has a purpose. < 1264388385 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the purpose of patent law is to give the public the assurance that new innovations are available < 1264388396 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I completely agree < 1264388402 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that's not the purpose of copyright law. < 1264388417 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would you define the purpose of copyright law as, then? < 1264388418 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..maybe < 1264388422 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The purpose of copyright law is to give the public the assurance that new works of art are available. < 1264388443 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1264388444 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I lurv you all < 1264388447 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it only in that context that Congress even has the power to enact a copyright law. < 1264388448 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my A key has been broken for 2 months < 1264388453 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. it is. < 1264388482 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no such thing as a first-to-copyright system anywhere in the world, unless I'm seriously mistaken < 1264388493 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1264388496 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a non sequitur. < 1264388501 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's really not < 1264388546 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no _this_ is a non sequitur. oh wait... < 1264388559 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your mom is a non sequitur. < 1264388562 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Congress shall have the power [...] to promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;" < 1264388581 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't care about USAian law < 1264388590 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Computer Useful Art < 1264388592 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's what we were discussing. < 1264388597 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, we were? < 1264388603 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "securing an exclusing right" bit is merely a means to an end... < 1264388610 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not the first time I've cited it. < 1264388647 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the USA further muddles things by adopting a first-to-invent system < 1264388672 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is arguably not among Congress' powers. < 1264388679 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not that that's stopped them before) < 1264388680 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't know, don't care < 1264388702 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I cited the only bit that grants them the power to do a copyright or patent law. < 1264388724 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the US federal government does an astounding lot more than they have the de jure power to) < 1264388725 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant I don't know or care about Congress' powers < 1264388736 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey, igoro replied to you < 1264388743 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not being in the US, it's not important to me < 1264388773 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: where? < 1264388779 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://robozzle.com/forums/thread.aspx?id=175 < 1264388857 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any case, a first-to-patent system directly accomplishes the goal of public dissemination < 1264388868 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Berne copyright does not < 1264388915 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BURN COPYRIGHT YARGH oh wait you mean the Berne convention ... < 1264388982 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas first-to-patent laws discourage information hoarding, copyright and first-to-invent systems do not < 1264389036 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really, the US has a most-$$$ system. < 1264389056 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't matter if you invented it first if IBM invented it second. < 1264389057 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the modern day and age, limitation of the trading of information encourages information hoarding. < 1264389065 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Unless you're Microsoft) < 1264389118 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, Gregor, that's only true in one direction < 1264389127 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's true that if IBM has the patent, you're screwed either way < 1264389156 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you have the patent, and IBM violated it, you have a shot at some serious dough < 1264389162 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is true. < 1264389170 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have the patent, then IBM will sue you for some patent that they *do* have, and offer to settle out of court. < 1264389177 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With a reciprocal license. < 1264389181 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly < 1264389184 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also true :P < 1264389202 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the modus operandi of most all large corporations. < 1264389208 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION blehs at the Worlds.com
< 1264389209 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in that case you can fight if they don't have a valid claim against you < 1264389221 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that they almost certainly do. < 1264389223 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1264389228 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because everything is patented :P < 1264389230 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what if you have no product? < 1264389230 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You almost can't breath without violating a patent. < 1264389238 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Business methods. < 1264389240 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if their patent is invalid? < 1264389242 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bilski < 1264389252 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :newfeatures? Worlds? lolWHAT? < 1264389258 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Their patent being invalid again comes down to $$$. < 1264389268 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can patent adding 1 and 1 if you have enough dollar signs. < 1264389275 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not it though < 1264389276 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have absolutely no product, then you're not having the cash to sue, unless you're a patent troll. < 1264389290 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: or you may be a startup without a product yet < 1264389293 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In which case, the company in question has already paid your protection money. < 1264389302 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: In which case, you don't have the cash to sue. < 1264389306 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you're fucked. < 1264389314 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: that's not the issue < 1264389325 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the issue is that if you're sued for an invalid patent, you're screwed either way < 1264389339 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you've got a suit of your own and you win both, you can cover your costs with the spoils < 1264389359 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but you won't survive to the end of the suit. < 1264389379 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you got 10 years worrth of lawyer fees sitting around to shovel into something?) < 1264389563 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL, this build of WorldsPlayer is 6 years old < 1264389579 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Build date 11/12/04 < 1264389593 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The US' legal system is pretty much designed so that whoever has the most $ wins. < 1264389609 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Our political system has approached that point, as well. < 1264389611 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1264389628 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and corporations can fund the politics. < 1264389648 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IP law is shaping up to be a real test of the government's willingness to listen to the people vs. the money < 1264389653 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God bless America < 1264389654 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially copyright < 1264389684 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So far, the people are losing. < 1264389698 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like it < 1264389717 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though they have the advantage that IP law is about as enforcable as making breathing illegal. < 1264389728 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but treaties are, fortunately, not enforceable until ratified < 1264389757 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so ACTA/EUFTA(?) will need to make it past Parliament first < 1264389786 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 Michael Geist < 1264389786 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's US copyright law that gets spread to other countries via treaty, y'know. :P < 1264389799 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: not just that; the EU are trying to do it too now < 1264389846 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, it's called CETA < 1264389847 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/4704/125/ < 1264390086 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1264391973 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1264392058 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain, GreaseMonkey: http://filebin.ca/mnotrf/zee1acc.ogg < 1264392097 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cb.vu/ < 1264392131 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kinda changes the mood, but god that accordion is awesomesauce. < 1264392156 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's that < 1264392173 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Music, of the Gregor kind. < 1264392176 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ostensibly it's semi-retro-video-gameish-music < 1264392184 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of the Gregor kind. < 1264392185 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, cb.vu looks like a Unix shell. < 1264392196 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As per the norm for Gregor music, it is enjoyable. < 1264392216 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y'know what really looks like a Unix shell? http://codu.org/jsmips/system.html < 1264392229 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'd sure hope so. ;) < 1264392236 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally i don't find it your best work, but very good work, obviously < 1264392254 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not supposed to be my best work, it's my first attempt at writing something fairly out of my style. < 1264392260 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1264392266 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't manage to get that far out of my style though, making it a weird hybrid :P < 1264392268 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does this uname line tell you: FreeBSD cb.vu 7.1-STABLE FreeBSD 7.1-STABLE #2: Wed Jan 30 16:21:05 CET 2009 c@cb.vu:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/CB i386 < 1264392274 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you try a bit too hard to keep it consistent < 1264392290 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find it amusing that the thing making jsmips slow is the remote filesystem. < 1264392293 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i386. I guess that means x86. < 1264392294 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(lagtastic!) < 1264392298 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or not) < 1264392309 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: How so? < 1264392334 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well there isn't a clear change of mood anywhere, is there < 1264392352 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, no there is not. This is a good point. < 1264392358 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: How much video game music does? < 1264392361 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it's supposed to be background music. < 1264392366 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Pre-Playstation, I should say. < 1264392373 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i've mostly heard FF music... < 1264392391 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i'm slightly biased < 1264392408 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Nobuo Uematsu didn't really start doing mood changes at all until SNES or Playstation era. < 1264392434 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a technological limitation though. < 1264392443 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hard to coordinate music to onscreen events without any sort of video. < 1264392450 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and the only FF musics i remember are from 9 and 7 < 1264392463 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh < 1264392479 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Harder still when the games didn't have much in the way of *plot*. :P < 1264392504 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's this witch. Uh, could you kill her for us? kthx < 1264392534 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The plot for Final Fantasy was more like "Uh, there's a big bad. Could you guys defeat him? Kthx." < 1264392563 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and yet, still had some good music. "Final Fantasy" is a much nicer piece than it has any right to be...) < 1264392643 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :japanese ff3 has some nice songs < 1264392670 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The same is true of all mainline Final Fantasy games. < 1264392679 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobuo Uematsu takes video game music seriously, and it shows. < 1264392685 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, better than the other nes games < 1264392697 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it's his job < 1264392729 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: Then why does so much of the rest of video game music suck? < 1264392733 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: It's their job too. < 1264392758 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not enough time/too small budget/etc < 1264392773 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also they don't care < 1264392811 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Nobuo Uematsu, when he started, was hired part time out of the music rental store he worked at. < 1264392821 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd call that "small budget". < 1264392827 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, he was at the right place at the right moment < 1264392837 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's kinda stunning that Square got even decent music out of that deal. < 1264392847 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Much less "rather good". < 1264392856 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, talent, better tools... < 1264392874 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of early music (8bit era) was made in, like, assembler < 1264392880 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: okay on a third listening, i don't think there's anything wrong with the mood < 1264392887 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or -lessness < 1264392887 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1264392928 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: True. < 1264392933 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, if the square guys made him a program, and didn't force him to squeeze into, say, 32k to squeeze in more gfx, that probably helped < 1264392959 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: They just told him what the NES could and couldn't do and let him have at it. < 1264392989 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, what I'd like to see is the tool the had to sequence the music < 1264393020 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is curious as well.
< 1264393040 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, every so often they have .nsf compos < 1264393051 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: maybe the feel of a sort of stability was just because the theme sort of stays the same throughout the whole song, which obviously was done on purpose, it just makes some of the "returning to the theme before next interesting part" feel pointless (maybe) < 1264393067 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also maybe i should criticize less, it really was pretty good :P < 1264393088 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no use for noncritical statements. < 1264393097 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true. < 1264393101 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, looking at how people do songs for .nsf competitions these days < 1264393111 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :americans use trackers, japanese use MML < 1264393134 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :americans win the original song competition, japanese win the cover competition < 1264393143 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION considers doing eso-related stuff
< 1264393185 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's hardly a NES compo anymore with all the extension chips people use < 1264393233 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why am I not eating yet? < 1264393258 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wish i had food < 1264393271 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, final fantasy music was custom made for the console limits instead of some midi conversion < 1264393272 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wishes oklopol had food.
< 1264393275 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, now what? < 1264393315 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1264393319 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :send me munnay < 1264393319 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: Helps a lot, that. < 1264393357 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he might have been more involved in the making of the game < 1264393362 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It really helps a lot that Square actually had someone just write music that could fit on the NES, rather than "write something that counts as music". < 1264393379 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of "here's 4000$, make us 20 songs" < 1264393396 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"So one night when we were talking, she was asking if I would be interested in taking part in creating some music for some of the titles they were working on at that time. So I said, "Okay, for sure I'll do it." But that was totally a side job, and I wasn't considering that this would become any sort of full-time gig." -- Nobuo Uematsu < 1264393405 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From http://www.1up.com/do/feature?pager.offset=1&cId=3166165 < 1264393441 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that's because in the 80s making music probably wasn't a full-time gig ever < 1264393468 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's more of a 16-bit era thing < 1264393513 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1264393538 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, these days games are more like made by the graphics guys < 1264393596 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they're not in a final fantasy 4 situation where the music has to be good because otherwise the games looks like total ass (just look at ff4's gfx) < 1264393690 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FF4 didn't look like ass. *FF7* looked like ass. < 1264393729 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ff7 looked good in 1997 :D < 1264393741 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Not really. < 1264393749 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's more like ff7 characters look like ass, the backdrops are nice afaik < 1264393765 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The backdrops do look nice, yes. < 1264393776 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, those were *paintings*. ;) < 1264393800 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the battle system models were less butty < 1264393818 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"butty" :P < 1264393825 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Lost terminal" < 1264393836 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably because they didn't have to make the battle run at 30fps :D < 1264393836 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was pretty much the only entry in the series that looked *worse* than contemporary games... < 1264393855 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but the soundtrack is great < 1264393859 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though it's midi < 1264393871 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The soundtrack is amazing, yes. < 1264393888 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION puts on One Winged Angel. Whooo.
< 1264393915 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: Best heard performed by an orchestra. < 1264393916 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's sample set is less cheesey than most GM kits < 1264393983 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the one where they recorded a choir no? :D < 1264394002 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like many before me, I feel like actually implementing Unix in JavaScript. < 1264394035 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: http://codu.org/projects/jsmips/ < 1264394041 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Help me with that instead :P < 1264394063 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of other psx soundtracks were made on synthesizers of the day < 1264394083 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: how does that work? < 1264394083 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: Yes, One Winged Angel has a choir. < 1264394090 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :roland/yamaha/korg romplers < 1264394101 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Veni veni venias, ne me mori facias." < 1264394104 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: It's a MIPS simulator. In JavaScript. With an /actual/ Unix shell and vim compiled for it. < 1264394128 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From the maker of Hackiki :P < 1264394149 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's considered the Sephiroth theme for some reason. < 1264394151 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would you implement MIPS in JavaScript rather than just implementing Unix in JavaScript? < 1264394170 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the theme is actually, of course, Those Chosen by the Planet) < 1264394180 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Because ultimately you're going to end up having no compatibility with real apps unless you can run C programs. < 1264394191 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you can compile C into JavaScript! < 1264394201 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'm curious: have you looked at Coffeescript at all? < 1264394216 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really, C assumes you have addressable memory, and so you'd effectively be simulating a system anyway. < 1264394219 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Nope. < 1264394245 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, it sounds like C sucks. < 1264394247 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a couple of holes in this C addressable memory thing, no? < 1264394265 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It's a language that maps rather closely to Javascript... < 1264394274 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I can see that. < 1264394276 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Rather nice. Much nicer syntax & scoping. < 1264394277 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: syntically < 1264394284 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But I like JavaScript :P < 1264394288 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: Maps closely semantically. < 1264394288 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :synatactically... whatever < 1264394291 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1264394309 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in working I'd think JS is a lot more like Lua and that kind of stuff < 1264394323 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C is more like... asm? < 1264394328 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. The root of "syntax" isn't "syntact", is it? < 1264394343 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: And Coffeescript is fairly close to Javascript. < 1264394377 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Just, \x->x looks like (x => x) rather than (function (x) {return x}) < 1264394378 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1264394393 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess "syntax" is a truncation of "syntaxis". < 1264394425 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, when you compose specifically for a platform, you can do amazing stuff < 1264394445 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too bad that almost never happened on the PC < 1264394484 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then, starting with FFX, Nobuo Uematsu had it easy. < 1264394498 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, this game only works with the Sound Blaster Pro < 1264394511 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno, after FF9 the soundtracks become less memorable < 1264394511 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Okay, here's your choir and orchestra. Come back with some CDs." < 1264394528 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, scoring for orchestra is an art too < 1264394548 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... *To Zanarkand* is not memorable? < 1264394552 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: I don't think anyone would dispute that fact :P < 1264394556 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't heard it actually < 1264394558 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What sort of heartless bastard are you? :P < 1264394565 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ok FFXII < 1264394567 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you *play* FFX? < 1264394569 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1264394570 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1264394576 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FFXII wasn't Nobuo Uematsu. < 1264394578 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that's why it's not memorable then :P < 1264394582 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1264394584 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1264394586 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1264394591 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: Play FFX. < 1264394597 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the best game in the series. < 1264394614 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only one I've replayed. < 1264394615 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoah, that's a strong statement. < 1264394628 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, wtf, FFXII wasn't scored by Uematsu? D-8 < 1264394641 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a huge fan of composing for the hardware instead of just making mp3s < 1264394646 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Nope. FFX wasn't soley scored by him, either. < 1264394648 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm a nerd :D < 1264394664 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah something that large is probably more than one guy no? < 1264394669 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a huge fan of composing for the hardware, where "the hardware" = "a piano" < 1264394679 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: First time he didn't compose the entire game. < 1264394707 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He did compose all of FFXI. And is composing all of FFXIV. < 1264394726 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who cares about FFXI :P < 1264394734 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's not actually the best but he's way good enough < 1264394735 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about X-2? < 1264394749 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Not him. < 1264394755 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the guy who did chrono trigger is actually better < 1264394793 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: ... Mitsuda and Uematsu? < 1264394803 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mitsuda something yeah < 1264394860 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: People who like MMOs. < 1264394863 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, in C, when do you actually use addressable memory? < 1264394868 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pointers. Arrays. Anything else? < 1264394876 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: ... but pointers and arrays are /everywhere/. < 1264394886 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Everything in C is addressable. < 1264394892 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, no but yeah the sort of pointer/array merge it has is everywhere < 1264394894 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: The only way to get memory dynamically is to get an address to something. < 1264394896 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, almost everything. All lvalues are.) < 1264394913 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you have the problem that you can mess up all the dependencies with pointers < 1264394941 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can mess up pretty much anything with pointers if you please. < 1264394941 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int p; p = 2+5; wacky_function(&p); < 1264394954 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can rewrite functions with pointers. < 1264394959 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not in a portable manner) < 1264394973 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's inherently platform specific < 1264394979 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, let's say that we figure out how to implement pointers and arrays. < 1264394996 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Then you're simulating virtual memory. < 1264395007 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell has pointers and arrays. < 1264395011 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: And all of your operations have to support the fact that values may change from under them, so they're all simulated too. < 1264395014 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: what is &? < 1264395020 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you have to figure out if variables are only local or if they get turned into pointers/references < 1264395024 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The address-of operator. < 1264395025 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, uorygl doesn't speak C, that explains it :P < 1264395032 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: get memory address operator < 1264395034 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That does explain it! < 1264395038 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: In C, everything is addressable. < 1264395054 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except for return values, and... < 1264395076 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A handful of other niche things. < 1264395087 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :once stuff is pointerizable, then you can contaminate stuff in your program with it and mess up everything < 1264395103 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Also variables labeled "register" :P < 1264395111 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: And "pointers and arrays"? < 1264395116 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Surely you just mean pointers. < 1264395124 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Right, right. < 1264395149 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might be doable anyways < 1264395176 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although you'll probably need to simulate integer wraparound :( < 1264395180 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: Oh, you can do it. You just have a memory array. < 1264395189 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, you don't need to simulate integer wraparound. < 1264395194 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Going beyond the bounds is UB. < 1264395201 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We can say that pointers are opaque until you try to do something non-opaque with them. < 1264395214 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ok, for char and short < 1264395221 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and... was it long? < 1264395236 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And when you do something non-opaque with them, they turn into dictionary keys. < 1264395239 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably messed up depending on compilers anyways < 1264395244 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. Sorry, that's *signed* integer wraparound that's undefined. < 1264395250 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unsigned is obvious. < 1264395260 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Nope, won't work. < 1264395263 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No? < 1264395272 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Something "non-opaque", like a[1]. < 1264395283 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: programs do nasty stuff with pointers < 1264395289 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Or a ^= b; < 1264395316 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Or a++; < 1264395337 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :javascript is designed for people doing programs directly in it, not handling butty C syntax trying to save 3 cycles on a VAX < 1264395351 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pointer + integer is opaque enough. < 1264395356 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Or (and this is really nasty:) int a = 0;a = &(1[(char*)a]); < 1264395383 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yeah you're going to have to intercept that kind of cast < 1264395389 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1264395424 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: Yeah, very much undefined behavior. < 1264395432 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make it intptr_t, and you're just fine. < 1264395444 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sizeof(intptr_t) = sizeof(void*)) < 1264395481 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: I suppose you're not familiar with the xor-linked list? < 1264395491 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds really painful. < 1264395497 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: oh god that sounds totally horrible < 1264395506 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a doubly linked list with a single pointer per node. < 1264395522 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, yes. < 1264395534 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice way to save 4 bytes at the cost of sanity? < 1264395535 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Each node has the previous node xor the next node stored in it. < 1264395540 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You XOR that pointer with the pointer you came from and get the pointer you go to. < 1264395559 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, how's this. < 1264395581 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that means you have to use 2 pointers to get inside the list but it's easy to reverse reading order?& < 1264395630 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's like, impossible to garbage collect < 1264395637 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is madbrain addicted yet? < 1264395644 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: You can also make it defined behavior by doing s/xor/addition/ < 1264395651 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(since pointer addition is defined) < 1264395668 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is indeed impossible to garbage collect, in the absence of compiler intelligence. < 1264395686 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"compiler intelligence" like "halting problem". < 1264395686 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[garbage-collector intelligence] < 1264395728 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Boehm GC answer to that is "if you do that, we *will* free the memory out from underneath you. So don't do that." < 1264395785 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo: to what? < 1264395827 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BGC = awesome < 1264395828 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RoboZZle < 1264395831 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFK < 1264395876 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Why yes, yes it does. < 1264395883 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Favorite C library. < 1264395886 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does ... awesome? < 1264395900 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it does equals < 1264395910 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always read "foo = bar" in normal conversation as "foo is bar" :P < 1264395919 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heheh. < 1264396005 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1264396005 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i read it as foo = bar < 1264396053 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i usually don't read irc out loud, because i'm not a crazy person < 1264396056 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1264396497 0 :uoryfon!n=uoryfon@mobile-166-137-138-055.mycingular.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1264396520 0 :uoryfon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feckless, my Internet connection lapsed. < 1264396540 0 :uoryfon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I saw none of what anyone said. < 1264396561 0 :uoryfon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, my scheme: < 1264396642 0 :uoryfon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whenever the program wants to dereference something, take a hash and store it in the dictionary. To dereference, look for nearby keys in the dictionary and subtract to find an offset. < 1264396748 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not just simulate memory with a huge array < 1264396776 0 :uoryfon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds less efficient. Maybe it actually isn't. < 1264396806 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I did was use 4K arrays nested in a hash. < 1264396814 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So a page is an array. < 1264396847 0 :uoryfon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if you have a really big array in your C program? < 1264396890 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if you have a really big array in your C program? < 1264396899 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if you have a really big array in your C program? < 1264396901 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would that be an issue? < 1264396929 0 :uoryfon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it could exceed the page size. < 1264396977 0 :uoryfon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A page's hash plus 4096 is not the next page's hash. < 1264396986 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would that be an issue? < 1264397061 0 :uoryfon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because a program might use pointer arithmetic and get the wrong thing? < 1264397100 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How could it possibly get the wrong thing? It's ultimately going to look up the location by its absolute address, not by looking up the base address of the array and assuming the rest is there. < 1264397161 0 :uoryfon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that how C works, though? < 1264397188 0 :uoryfon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By taking the base address of the array and assuming everything else is there? < 1264397189 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C adds to a pointer, and then looks up the resulting pointer. < 1264397203 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: ... Welcome to paging. < 1264397239 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :store each pointer as a 2-byte hash of the object's address and a 2-byte offset < 1264397240 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(fun fact: memory is not actually contiguous, it just pretends to be!) < 1264397253 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just complain if you try to allocate more than 65535 elements in a single array < 1264397281 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Store each pointer as an index into an array. And implement that array as 4K arrays in a hash. < 1264397313 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Making the only annoying things to implement be malloc and free. < 1264397327 0 :uoryfon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that sounds like it works. < 1264397335 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just use llvm? < 1264397340 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(though, this being MIPS emulated, that's on the C side) < 1264397342 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ducks
< 1264397396 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y'know what's sad? I've had zee1 on loop for like an hour now :P < 1264397415 0 :uoryfon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But gosh, C still sucks. It's not even approximately Turing-complete without this barely-well-defined artifact of von Neumann? < 1264397440 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C is a language designed for computers, yes. < 1264397468 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: here, stick this on loop: http://pubacc.wilcox-tech.com/~greaser/mods/kattywampus.it < 1264397470 0 :uoryfon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1264397478 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, C would need infinite size plointers < 1264397483 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pointers < 1264397485 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's ... a dot-it file? < 1264397485 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Gregor has the right idea < 1264397485 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C is not Turing complete without stdio. < 1264397493 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: what players do you have? < 1264397494 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure it is < 1264397505 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: mplayer, vlc, anything else in Debian sid. < 1264397506 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it shouold work OK in mikmody and modplugy stuff < 1264397516 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you need stdio for C to be Turing-complete? < 1264397525 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: ... Finite memory? < 1264397525 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is dot-it some kind of new-age .mod? < 1264397532 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah... 1996-era < 1264397536 0 :uoryfon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I suppose realistic computers are probably going to have addressable memory. < 1264397539 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: eh, same goes for every other computer language < 1264397541 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: size_t is still finite < 1264397549 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :check if you've got mikmod, it doesn't interpolate (read: butcher) like vlc (modplug) does < 1264397554 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: And stdio doesn't require size_t. < 1264397556 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you explicitly enable it < 1264397565 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ aptitude install mikmod < 1264397568 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can just *happen* to have an infinite tape as a file. :P < 1264397581 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: C *requires* it. < 1264397582 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :size_t fread(void *ptr, size_t size, size_t nmemb, FILE *stream) < 1264397583 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1264397587 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: C + Unix + stdio + my infinite tape device :P < 1264397598 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: So you can only read a finite amount at a time. < 1264397601 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: except many file systems have limited file size to stuff like 4gb :D < 1264397601 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: so any implementation of C is not Turing-complete < 1264397602 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seek w/ SEEK_CUR only < 1264397603 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The same is true of a Turing machine. < 1264397614 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mikmod is a bit lacking in IT support sadly, but it should play that fine < 1264397614 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: C itself is not Turing-complete. At all. < 1264397615 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: combine that to finite size file names < 1264397626 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: the standard imposes no limits on the size of memory < 1264397626 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :long ftell(FILE *stream); < 1264397628 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: Single file that's a tape? < 1264397633 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Yes it does. < 1264397637 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are no sustain loops < 1264397638 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Everything must be addressable. < 1264397650 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: uh, you forgot about I/O < 1264397652 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: if you run out of addresses, get an implementation with widen pointers < 1264397654 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: And pointers must have a size that's a multiple of the size of char. < 1264397659 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: And the size of a char must be finite. < 1264397671 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*wider < 1264397673 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Pointers have to have a constant size. < 1264397682 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically the x86 is turing-complete as it has I/O available in some way < 1264397683 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And finite. < 1264397687 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: you can output the size of a pointer, clearly after something like that there must be some set size limit for pointers < 1264397695 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: ... stdio is IO. < 1264397695 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which you could theoretically hook up to a tape drive < 1264397698 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that's why I said that any implementation of C is not turing-complete < 1264397699 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: How does one convince mikmod to output to ALSA instead of ... a file. < 1264397711 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Pointers are *specified* to be finite. < 1264397722 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C kinda almost designed for programs where everything is fixed size < 1264397729 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kinda like old DOS programs < 1264397730 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically you could make an implementation that makes pointers bigger if needed ofc, but i doubt that's allowed to be visible to the user < 1264397734 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not merely "must be in practice", *MUST BE BY DEFINITION*. < 1264397740 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: No. < 1264397742 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: i honestly can't remember if mikmod has an alsa driver... esd should have an alsa version, and mikmod should have an esd driver < 1264397748 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: sizeof(void*) is constant. < 1264397771 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aoss + -d oss < 1264397781 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As an optimisation, you could store them in less than sizeof(void*) units of char, so long as it was transparent. < 1264397788 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmkay < 1264397790 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afk, food < 1264397794 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, since char is finite, that doesn't get you anywhere. < 1264397816 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah that sort of platform is based on the irl fact that for infinite tape, 4gigabytes is "infinite enough" :D < 1264397854 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: a Universal Turing machine either requires a finite amount of memory for a computation, or doesn't halt < 1264397868 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and C can meet that standard < 1264397870 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Sorry, I should say: < 1264397877 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: C requires finite *and bound* memory. < 1264397891 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only any given implementation of C does < 1264397893 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: A finite but unpredictable amount of memory. < 1264397898 0 :uoryfon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to specify the amount of memory before running the program. < 1264397908 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: No, there's always a bound. < 1264397908 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if the amount of memory is input dependent? :D < 1264397912 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, so any implementation of C is not Turing-complete < 1264397928 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... And so C is not Turing-complete. < 1264397936 0 :uoryfon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Turing machine can't simply say how much memory it needs. < 1264397938 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good lawd, how are we somehow on this again X_X < 1264397961 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Translate the following to C: [>] < 1264397966 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go on, I'm waiting. < 1264397975 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. < 1264397977 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+[>] < 1264397983 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: abort() < 1264397988 0 :uoryfon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, why do you think it is merely any implementation of C, rather than C itself, that is not Turing-complete? < 1264397993 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Not a valid translation. < 1264397993 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, iirc interpreters for other turing complete languages will probably have a 4gb bound too :D < 1264397996 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :abort() halts. < 1264398001 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fine < 1264398001 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+[>] does not. < 1264398002 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while() < 1264398006 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :; < 1264398023 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's dumb distinction anyway < 1264398023 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not a valid translation. +[>] uses infinite memory. while(); does not even compile. < 1264398046 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uoryfon: Because for any Turing machine, you can generate an implementation of C to simulate it < 1264398051 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: Yes, but they're not required to be bound by definition. < 1264398053 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like while(1){ malloc(1);} < 1264398058 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: No you can't. < 1264398065 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not < 1264398068 0 :uoryfon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+[[>+<-]>+] < 1264398081 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for any halting one, yes < 1264398086 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate this argument. < 1264398089 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: More like void*p; while(*p++); < 1264398090 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1264398091 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many times must this channel have this argument? < 1264398104 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any nonhalting Turing machine can be simulated by having the C program not halt < 1264398107 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: this is the fourth time i've seen i think, must be one hundredth for you? < 1264398118 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bought a USB infinite tape JUST so I'd never have to have this argument again. < 1264398122 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean you've been here since the middle ages < 1264398122 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's at /dev/infinite_tape < 1264398127 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1264398141 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, who has recently reappeared, has been here far longer than me. < 1264398147 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari has been here for a bit longer than me. < 1264398151 0 :uoryfon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: would you say that every Turing machine can be simulated by an FSM? < 1264398152 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: That may halt in a compliant C implementation. < 1264398155 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clog has been here longer than me. < 1264398213 0 :uoryfon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't just make something dependent on whether the machine halts or not; that would be solving the halting problem. < 1264398218 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's make a nice esoteric language < 1264398219 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: i didn't say you were the first one here < 1264398230 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True :P < 1264398242 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uoryfon: yes; not by the same one, though < 1264398243 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: no it can't < 1264398247 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uoryfon: of course you can, when talking about the existance of things < 1264398283 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok how about a problem like this: to design something like a super massively parallel cpu, you'd need something that doesn't have a gazillion data dependencies < 1264398291 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: What does pointer wraparound do? < 1264398292 0 :uoryfon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: so FSMs are Turing-complete? < 1264398292 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chris is back? cool < 1264398296 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is an unfortunate property of RAM < 1264398311 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's probably undefined < 1264398315 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RAM is, like, the least parallel thing ever < 1264398318 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uoryfon: I'd say that all FSMs are Turing complete. You cannot construct a single Turing-complete FSM < 1264398321 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i guess it could halt < 1264398328 0 :uoryfon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I think you need to rethink your definition of Turing-completeness. < 1264398335 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: He was here a couple days ago, and a day or so before that. < 1264398338 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or I'm just doing this to annoy you < 1264398341 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FSM have finite storage space < 1264398349 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes... < 1264398351 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1264398354 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: and once you have a definition of turing-completeness, do share it < 1264398357 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not infinite like you'd need < 1264398362 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: And are therefore not Turing-complete. < 1264398362 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we don't have one yet < 1264398370 0 :uoryfon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, then, you can't construct a single Turing-complete C program. < 1264398385 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[22:45:13] or I'm just doing this to annoy you < 1264398394 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament still comes around, doesn't 'e? < 1264398398 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uoryfon: well, you'd need an implementation of C where pointers are not fixed size < 1264398411 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: such is forbidden by the standard < 1264398413 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: Which is impossible. < 1264398422 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would be sorta neat but would not have any practical use and probably violate the standard yes < 1264398430 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: he seems to come everytime he's reminded of the channel at least < 1264398436 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh < 1264398449 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: which is why I added this channel to my autojoin list ;) < 1264398450 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a few times he's seen me on another chan and instantly joined here :P < 1264398454 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's the first recognized name in the log (on the first day of the log) < 1264398463 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1264398478 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've read the genesis < 1264398492 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :were any of you guys on the mailing list? < 1264398502 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1264398505 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a relative n00b, myself. < 1264398505 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just here < 1264398507 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[18:47:08] back < 1264398507 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[18:47:27] ...cpressey appeared again? < 1264398512 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you make a practical super-parallel processor? < 1264398513 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I barely remember that there was a mailing list. < 1264398516 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i got routerscrewed < 1264398529 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: See recent log :P < 1264398542 0 :uoryfon_!n=uoryfon@mobile-166-137-139-048.mycingular.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1264398543 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: message passing < 1264398554 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: that sounds like a bitch to code for < 1264398556 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/04.01.01 That's an impressive genesis. :P < 1264398574 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: go learn erlang < 1264398581 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION greps for conversation
< 1264398595 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically it's manual parallelization < 1264398601 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thankfully not the most senior member of this channel, but I believe I am the most simultaneous people/bots on this channel :P < 1264398619 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Quite likely. < 1264398629 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hardly manual parallellization. It's manual communication between independent, parallel parts < 1264398673 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like it'd be sensible to timing differences < 1264398695 0 :uoryfon_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1264398705 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fortunately, asiekierka appears to be older than clog. < 1264398716 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...i think < 1264398740 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARGH THE TIGHT [inter]NET OF FOLKS I KNOW < 1264398802 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This channel has a decent attrition/repopulation rate. < 1264398819 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never come back after ignoring it for a few months and find nobody I recognize, but I usually find somebody new. < 1264398827 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i remet someone i knew over some now pretty much dead forums via youtube, we could have also potentially clashed over minecraft or through a sonic hacking group -> monsquaz (don't ask what this is) -> mod shrine < 1264398847 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so before we remet he was already a friend-of-a-friend somewhere < 1264398851 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: the idea is, if you can eliminate the global dependency caused by stuff like RAM or side effects, you can basically parallelize everything automatically < 1264398860 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey: What's monsquaz? < 1264398864 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1264398892 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even execution order stuff can be parallelized by stuff like functionnal programming < 1264398893 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: you don't want to know... it's some sonic-hacking injoke group i suppose < 1264398906 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also an animation < 1264398909 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You never recognize me? < 1264398913 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1264398932 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I NEVER come back ... and find NOBODY I recognize. < 1264398933 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latter is disturbing, the former is pretty much a cyberbullying ring and that's why i left < 1264398941 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1264398947 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Parsing English is *hard*. < 1264398959 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't worry, us foreigners got it right < 1264398963 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yeah, i tried it once in python < 1264398982 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man kattywampus.it is great even if i do say so myself < 1264398983 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except i have no idea what GreaseMonkey and madbrain are < 1264398997 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i've been here before, like, a few years ago < 1264399020 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recall GreaseMonkey being around when I first entered. < 1264399022 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and madbrain... first sighted in digitalmzx/#mzx, second in #mod_shrine, third here. < 1264399025 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, obviously i remember you < 1264399028 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain I think just showed up one day. < 1264399030 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean i don't know where you live < 1264399056 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asie i sighted on dmzx and met here, i think < 1264399092 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i recognise maybe 30% of the people here < 1264399094 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1264399113 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: basically I found the channel from the esolang wiki I think < 1264399130 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, roughly < 1264399130 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: Same here. < 1264399143 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found it from a whois < 1264399146 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i found it via the wiki, too < 1264399146 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was approximately a few feet from here, physically. < 1264399186 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_O < 1264399192 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People found the channel from the esolang wiki. < 1264399193 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoah. < 1264399209 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the wiki is nice < 1264399210 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION was here when the esolang wiki started, and that should not make me feel like I've been here a long time :P
< 1264399213 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: The wiki is actually quite handy. < 1264399228 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1264399229 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i recognize 32/40 < 1264399233 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially that Brainfuck algorithms page. < 1264399251 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suppose I want to launch an esoteric language, make a page on the wiki, kdone < 1264399253 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nono, don't get me wrong, the esolang wiki is awesome, it's just for some reason I didn't ever think of the this-channel-to-esolang-wiki link as bidirectional. < 1264399266 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Hahah. < 1264399275 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm the guy who did RETURN, btw < 1264399314 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately i've just realised a bit of undefined behaviour < 1264399484 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: learn from me: if it's not PD people will sometimes scream at you < 1264399492 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the spec must be PD < 1264399508 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your interpreter, on the other hand... if you want it archived then PD should be fine < 1264399529 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's really proprietary people will probably bin the link < 1264399550 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't actually care about licenses < 1264399552 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PD is overboard, but it ought to be under a liberal F/OSS license. < 1264399677 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the spec needs to be PD if you want it on the esolang wiki < 1264399691 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should at a bare minimum not make Stallman cry. < 1264399701 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interpreter, on the other hand, should ideally be FOSS. < 1264399729 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would anyone make a non-PD esolang spec? < 1264399737 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like I said, I don't actually care about license < 1264399748 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is someone actually interested in making money off an esolang/ < 1264399749 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1264399750 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: if you're like me, you're probably not thinking straight < 1264399777 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never thought for an instant that I'd make money off PSOX < 1264399780 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you don't like letting go of stuff fully < 1264399795 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo: the only thing that sounds kinda like that is the forth dude < 1264399796 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i often used a "remember to credit me" thing < 1264399798 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even then < 1264399812 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain, hm? < 1264399823 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, Colorforth? < 1264399833 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :colorforth didn't make money I think < 1264399857 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Money? Esolang? < 1264399859 0 :uoryfon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1264399861 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the guy made money earlier, dunno with what < 1264399863 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, exactly < 1264399867 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only the "plain English" guys were that crazy. < 1264399871 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it's a hoby < 1264399881 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, "plain English" guys? < 1264399890 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.osmosian.com/ < 1264399893 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This bit of hilarity. < 1264399975 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where's the compiler? < 1264399983 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you have to email it from them? < 1264399986 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, wait < 1264399988 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that came out wrong < 1264399992 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like englishified basic or something < 1264400026 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somewhere in the logs is a link to the compiler... < 1264400064 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.osmosian.com/cal-3037.zip < 1264400067 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They suck at charging. < 1264400112 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whee i think i've solved #195 "another speed control" < 1264400141 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What language was the first compiler ever written in? < 1264400146 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#195 in what? < 1264400149 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, first "Plain English" < 1264400150 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Euler? < 1264400155 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They claim to have the most advanced compiler tech. < 1264400163 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: robozzle < 1264400166 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who cares how fast it is? < 1264400167 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1264400173 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's interesting is the language itself < 1264400177 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that english compiling shit is < 1264400182 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1264400186 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We are all, by any practical definition of the words, foolproof < 1264400186 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and incapable of error. Nevertheless..." < 1264400186 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah something like that < 1264400192 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sucks. < 1264400199 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they charge for it. < 1264400205 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does it do < 1264400225 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set n to 3 plus 8 < 1264400230 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what? :D < 1264400237 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If the copy is greater than the number, break." < 1264400242 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Recompiles itself in 3 seconds", they claim. < 1264400260 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just a second while I test PFUCK's self-compile time. < 1264400293 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.121 seconds. < 1264400305 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly, I am the most awesome compiler author. < 1264400332 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Now I know that right about here most programming books would drum u < 1264400332 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some dippy little "Hello, World" program � and expect you to be impressed < 1264400332 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'd like to suggest that we skip the kid stuff and start makin' babies." < 1264400353 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also just did #305 "Follow directions" < 1264400391 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..and it doesn't exactly give syntax info or any code. That is just showing how to put a demo calendar into the IDE and compile < 1264400428 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup. < 1264400437 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's actually undocumented. < 1264400443 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, you mean this has no documentation? < 1264400443 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finallly, something interesting < 1264400451 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Page 11 of the documentation < 1264400471 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And has a rather simple compiler. < 1264400501 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With silly, cutesy names for thinks. < 1264400507 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'monikette'. < 1264400524 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I don't do nested IFs. Nested ifs are a sure sign of unclear thinking, and < 1264400524 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is something that I will not countenance. If you think this cramps your < 1264400524 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :style too much, read my code to see how it's done. Then think again." < 1264400548 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha that's horrible < 1264400562 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tend to recurse lots < 1264400565 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder how they got such fast compile times < 1264400573 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1264400576 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: By being trivial. < 1264400591 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I don't do nested LOOPS. Nested loops indicate that you have failed to < 1264400591 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :properly factor your code into manageable chunks, and I don't want you < 1264400591 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :regretting that later. Time after time my otherwise omniscient creators < 1264400591 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought they could get away with it, and time after time they were wrong" < 1264400598 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I don't do recursion. Recursion is a sure sign of thinking, and that is something i will not countenance." < 1264400615 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo: are you making that up < 1264400616 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They emply "advanced techniques" like "a hash table" in the compiler. < 1264400622 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: No. < 1264400624 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain, I wish < 1264400663 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, does it do recursion? < 1264400687 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see anything that says it doesn't *shrug* < 1264400699 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like, will it blow up if I try to use it like it was scheme < 1264400705 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder how many fucking times i've written the same function that enumerates every subset of size n... and i never save it anywhere < 1264400723 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Repeat." appears to be a tail call. < 1264400743 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: repeat this function? < 1264400753 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You probably noticed that I mentioned comments on the preceding page, but < 1264400753 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't say what they look like. I did that on purpose. I don't like comments. " < 1264400754 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Yes. < 1264400762 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahaha < 1264400762 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#311 "Follow directions II" solved in (5,4,4) instructions < 1264400782 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Most comments are either useless, or worse. Useless, if they merely reiterate < 1264400782 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the code already says. Worse, if they attempt to clarify unclear code < 1264400782 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should have been written more clearly in the first place." < 1264400803 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You will find that my editor displays simple comments in a delightful sky blue < 1264400803 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :making it easy for you to see what I'm going to ignore. And no, you can't < 1264400803 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :change the color. My creators have assured me that this is the right color." < 1264400812 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"(3) Anything more than this falls under the heading "garbage collection" and, < 1264400812 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as every manly programmer knows, garbage collection is for sissies. < 1264400813 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1264400827 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that in there? < 1264400831 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1264400833 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes. < 1264400842 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph < 1264400852 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has manual memory management. < 1264400863 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously it's our fault for being terrible if we want to use anything neat < 1264400876 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a bit too direct an admission of not being serious < 1264400885 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"manly programmer" < 1264400892 0 :tombom!i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1264400929 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it a subtle joke? < 1264400933 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So much of the language screams "No, I don't know how to do this right, and I don't care." < 1264400943 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: ... They charge for this shit. < 1264400952 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU CAN PAY MONEY FOR THAT ZIP FILE. < 1264400962 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(they then email the link to you. :P) < 1264400969 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The third kind of comment that I understand is the qualifier." ... "Note that qualifiers are not like simple comments and remarks. Qualifiers are < 1264400970 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considered part of the program and affect how the compiled code executes." < 1264400976 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, even C is higher level than this :( < 1264401002 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION vaguely realizes that Python also has things like comments that can effect execution. But it doesn't call them comment
< 1264401004 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*comments < 1264401102 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: This is more like a poor assembler. < 1264401121 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what sort of data types does it have < 1264401128 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me guess < 1264401135 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing variable sized of course < 1264401146 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: Well, there's your int, your string, your real, your reference, and you can do structures. < 1264401148 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has strings, I think < 1264401151 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only things a manly programmer needs, ints, bools and strings of sub256 length. < 1264401155 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I thought it didn't have reals < 1264401160 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. < 1264401163 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/real/rational/ < 1264401175 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, floats? < 1264401176 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Floats? Bah, humbug! < 1264401204 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I don't do REAL NUMBERS. I do ratios, very elegantly, but I don't do reals. < 1264401204 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My page editor reduces and enlarges and sizes shapes proportionately in and < 1264401204 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :out of groups and it does it all without real numbers. Master Kronecker was < 1264401204 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right when he said, in German, "The dear God created the whole numbers; all < 1264401204 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :else is the work of man." I'm not interested in menschenwerk." < 1264401230 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're telling me this doesn't have floating point < 1264401254 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They then give a "ASCII" table. By ASCII, they mean "Code page 1250". < 1264401258 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: Yes. < 1264401263 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1264401271 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah this is the worst < 1264401282 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't have inline assembler. You can, however, manually assemble something and use that. < 1264401289 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(see: the noodle) < 1264401308 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :intel $8B8508000000. < 1264401311 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO VERY ENGLISH! < 1264401330 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1264401331 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1264401350 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you unzip in python < 1264401356 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't Sgeo__ a pythonist at least < 1264401370 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really a question, i know he was < 1264401390 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The worst part is, they probably think this is high-level. Should replace them with a small Haskell function. < 1264401395 0 :jpc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"I will do anything (almost) for a new router." < 1264401412 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is also someone who needs to go afk occasionally
< 1264401415 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1264401424 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Over 100 Pages of Documentation " < 1264401429 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :over 100! < 1264401435 0 :jpc!n=jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1264401465 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha the manifesto < 1264401465 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, http://docs.python.org/library/zipfile.html < 1264401484 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :byzantine "C" language < 1264401498 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbrain: Dear God, I think I've got more than 100 pages of documentation just from the man-pages tarball. :P < 1264401527 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck, my Emacs manual is nearly 600 pages. < 1264401537 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that's not comprehensive. < 1264401613 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"They pray for guidance. Then they consider deleting the offending feature < 1264401614 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :altogether, to resolve the problem and prevent "feature creep" at the same < 1264401614 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time. Next, they study the code, hoping to simply "discern" what the problem < 1264401614 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is. If the bug has not been found, they pick an appropriate spot and insert a < 1264401614 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :buzz. If they hear it on the next run, they pick another spot further down the < 1264401616 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :line, and try again. If there is no buzz, they repeat the entire process. < 1264401619 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1264401621 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On debugging. < 1264401681 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tended to do that with Python
< 1264401692 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Visual Studio C# debugger really opened my eyes < 1264401739 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't get debugging < 1264401742 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Tcl, I made a breakpoint function that started a REPL and inserted it into relevant places. < 1264401748 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :disclaimer: I'm not a professionnal coder < 1264401750 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In C, <3 GDB. < 1264401757 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Haskell, I think. < 1264401831 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If you are bilingual, you can use our compiler for engineering Plain French or Plain Croatian." < 1264401835 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: oh lol i mean unzip after calling zip < 1264401848 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How's about Plain C? < 1264401857 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not after it, just the operation of splitting elements of a list into two lists < 1264401870 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...well not exactly that either, maybe i should just give an example < 1264401885 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[(1,2),(3,4),(5,6)] => [1,3,5], [2,4,6] < 1264401899 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assume there's something for that because there is in J ;) < 1264402090 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Dunno about Python, but in Haskell that's "unzip". < 1264402106 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i guess that's where i got the name :P < 1264402118 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not very consciously tho < 1264402119 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, except that it's [(1,2),(3,4),(5,6)] => ([1,3,5],[2,4,6]) :P < 1264402135 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unzip :: [(a,b)] -> ([a],[b]) < 1264402138 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't haskell let you omit ()'s too < 1264402141 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@61.251.165.103 JOIN :#esoteric < 1264402144 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1264402157 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, indeed not < 1264402163 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://docs.python.org/library/functions.html < 1264402167 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zip() in conjunction with the * operator can be used to unzip a list: < 1264402171 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any case same types < 1264402211 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right < 1264402214 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun hack < 1264402266 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but why not have an unzip, me asks < 1264402369 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's needless? < 1264402389 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: By that notion, all of Prelude that is not IO is needless. < 1264402390 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1264402404 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(seriously, all the rest is fairly trivial pattern matching) < 1264402416 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(... And recursion, obviously) < 1264402688 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: because you'll need to write it yourself otherwise. it'll just be trivial to write if it's a special case of zip < 1264402710 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it would be trivial without using zip as well < 1264402730 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not really < 1264402743 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zip is bidrectional < 1264402750 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it takes a list (conceptually) and returns a list < 1264403097 0 :FireFly!n=firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1264403436 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where's ais when you need one < 1264403478 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's hiding as.. s something < 1264403509 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks over at his own nick, and goes to deny everything
< 1264403584 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait... what was so hard with the Gridlock one? < 1264403590 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(on RoboZZle) < 1264403593 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the gridlock one, link < 1264403598 0 :bsmntbombdood_!n=gavin@174-16-193-30.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1264403604 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://robozzle.com/js/play.aspx?puzzle=882 < 1264403624 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bleh at link to JS < 1264403628 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh < 1264403710 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Night all < 1264403715 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Morning < 1264403741 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably nothing, i don't even remember solving it < 1264403773 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turn 180 at greens, 90 at reds < 1264403787 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :already forgot what it looked like :D < 1264403842 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude, no, just turn left at reds < 1264403842 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay yeah exactly that < 1264403849 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that works too < 1264403897 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't have the computer beeping at me, so bye < 1264403897 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's like optimizing how you put your socks on < 1264403900 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1264403915 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, there's indications when you get shortest solution < 1264403918 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*known < 1264403938 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't know, assumed so < 1264404020 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1264404207 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1264404273 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: I don't think there was nothing so hard about Gridlock; it's just that I initially did it with 8 commands (I might have had a ↑↑↑-function there, or some such nonsense) and people here complained. < 1264404282 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1264404287 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, all right < 1264404339 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i prefer my solutions long and robust < 1264404347 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kinda like my penis < 1264404440 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: thought maybe you'd come if i highlighted you. i'm not sure how likely that is. < 1264404452 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd prefer long solutions too, but they keep being thrifty with those command slots. < 1264404488 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1264404527 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Maybe you have to say his name thrice? I think that works for Hastur. < 1264404541 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The file zee1.ogg is in fact not bad but why does sox command, when playing back a file in the Windows command-line window, to make a mess when you try to scroll the window while it is playing? < 1264404610 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: No, it says "HASTUR HASTUR HASTUR HASTUR HASTUR HASTUR HASTUR HASTUR HASTUR HASTUR HASTUR HASTUR HASTUR HASTUR HASTUR HASTUR HASTUR HASTUR HASTUR HASTUR HASTUR HASTUR HASTUR HASTUR HASTUR" or in other words, any number of times, including too much < 1264404622 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I meant the scroll) < 1264404626 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i have more than 7 bits of information of interest to you < 1264404863 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have also done 882 in initially in 8 commands, but now I did it in 5 commands < 1264404951 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it takes 3 if you do what GreaseMonkey suggested < 1264404974 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :green is superfluous < 1264405230 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But now I'm trying 883 (it is similar but all blue). I just typed in 883 and see what it did. < 1264405278 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The part of the campaign sequence from '"960" on blue' to 'Linked List II' was nice; there was nothing to get stuck on. < 1264405311 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: do you go from hardest to easiest now? < 1264405367 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I go based on the names mostly. < 1264405381 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :883 was trivial if you don't mind being inelegant and filling all the command slots. < 1264405471 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems there are some 11-command solutions submitted too, though. < 1264405565 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You people and your trivials. < 1264405588 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1264405619 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it is! The 13-command solution for 883 I have has absolutely no logic in it, just pure "go-there" bruteforcing. < 1264405664 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think the 960 is that easy, even though, obviously, the idea is trivial < 1264405683 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just need a few more slots... < 1264405791 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1264405864 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1264405911 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used all I got there. < 1264406135 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay that was weird, i go almost everything, then suddenly the guy goes crazy and starts circling around in the blue zone :D < 1264406139 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*got < 1264406166 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very common thing with recursion that, almost getting it right, but having some details wrong... < 1264406259 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1264406299 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, wasn't exactly hard, i just still have a hard time making recursion puzzle-concise < 1264406338 0 :jpc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"I will do anything (almost) for a new router." < 1264406376 0 :jpc!n=jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1264406399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1264406400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1264406588 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linked List II was cute; still can't do 883, though. < 1264406668 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You could if you stopped trying to be clever and just programmed in some suitable route taken in 882. < 1264406696 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If you can call that "programming", really.) < 1264406736 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gridlock took me about 30 sec < 1264406743 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can think of routes to program, just not how to program them. < 1264406764 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how good i am < 1264406768 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linked list ii looks hard < 1264406770 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, here we go. One cell free. < 1264406823 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah just do what you did in 882 < 1264406831 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I tried for the better part of 10 minutes. < 1264406836 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1264406840 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then what did you do < 1264406841 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I did linked list II in about two mintues. < 1264406854 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I came back and stared at 883 for another minute before figuring it out. < 1264406893 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Your brain works in a strange way; linked list 2 took me quite many minutes of bugfixing. < 1264406959 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't typically need to bugfix on any of these; once I have an idea that fits, it works. The times when stuff doesn't work is when I don't have an idea or when it doesn't fit. < 1264406976 0 :madbrain!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Radiateur" < 1264407046 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, I think I'm improving. Most showstoppers for me now tend to be the ones that require "double recursion" or whatever its canonical name is, e.g. 141 < 1264407169 0 :adam_d!n=Adam@cpc2-acto6-0-0-cust48.brnt.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1264407329 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, cumulative effect (597) was fun, if only for the twirling-around... and also the first one I did on the phone. < 1264407528 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One extra space there. < 1264407941 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.org <- Nobody cares enough to cybersquat it" < 1264408175 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, i think the reason i couldn't quite crack linked list ii was i had totally misunderstood how the colors were positioned < 1264408184 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should really look at these puzzles. < 1264408723 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1264409626 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, "Incomplete grid" had a huge number of useless slots; F1 and F2 had 5, and F3 had 10 (!); used 5 of F1, 2 of F2 and 0 of F3. < 1264409746 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or actually only F1; so 15 extra slots and two extra functions. < 1264409914 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you use all slots for linked list? < 1264409970 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17, evidently < 1264409977 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(For 654) < 1264410007 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A lot, but maybe not quite all of them. < 1264410111 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had one empty slot, but it was only after tons of spec optimization < 1264410113 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*space < 1264410132 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a verbose intuition < 1264410207 0 :bsmntbombdood__!n=gavin@97-118-188-71.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1264411062 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1264411215 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1264412012 0 :bsmntbombdood_!n=gavin@97-118-210-25.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1264412021 0 :Slereah!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-124-15.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1264412975 0 :bsmntbombdood__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1264413163 0 :jpc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1264413297 0 :scarf!n=scarf@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1264413376 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: Were you the same thing as ais523? < 1264413389 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: /ns info me < 1264413394 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NickServ knows I'm ais523 < 1264413405 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I sort of thought so because of the cloak. < 1264413415 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, oklopol has more than seven bits of information for you. < 1264413425 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately he did not choose to reveal the contents to us. < 1264413478 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not just any information, in fact; information "of interest". < 1264413949 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile, it seems that 1.0.0.0/8 was allocated < 1264413963 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they must be running really low on addresses... < 1264414575 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The block to allocate is choosen at random. < 1264414583 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(among free /8s). < 1264414656 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the allocation of any /8 is worrying, thouhg < 1264414657 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*though < 1264414676 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its allocation to RIR. And yes, one more block allocated at IANA level... < 1264414979 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At that level, following blocks are free: 5, 14, 23, 31, 36, 37, 39, 42, 49, 50, 100-107, 176, 177, 179, 181, 185, 223 (24 blocks, 384Mi addresses (minus the ones lost due to allocation blocking, network addresses and broadcast addresses). < 1264415049 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And of the remaining 26 before this allocation, 1/8 was probably the worst block. < 1264415062 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"worst"? < 1264415109 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The amount of unauthorized use and unauthorized routes leaking. < 1264415138 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they banned things like 1.2.3.4 pre-emptively < 1264415158 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, APNIC reserved those. < 1264415189 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :amusingly, Wikipedia has edits from 1.2.3.4 < 1264415197 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it must have been a dev testing checkuser, or something < 1264415263 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first 3 /16s in that block are probably the worst w.r.t unauthorized use / unauthorized routes. < 1264415403 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially the 1.1/16 block. < 1264416071 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ASes shouldn't be going around announcing 1/8 addresses, though < 1264416086 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and any use of it inside an AS or smaller network is their own fault < 1264416357 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"(Mar's Law) Everything is linear if plotted log-log with a fat magic marker." < 1264416543 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1264416552 0 :scarf!n=scarf@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1264416684 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1264417070 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the world would be a better place if everything was linear < 1264417523 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: not really, overtaking would be really difficult < 1264417533 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you'd only have two people you could ever meet in RL, ever < 1264417545 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I assume you could use radio waves or something for longer-distance communication, they go through people) < 1264417866 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1264417866 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wasn't thinking one-dimensional, more that all physics was linear < 1264417933 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a world where acceleration is impossible < 1264419114 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then nobody could move < 1264419119 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or stop moving, if they were already moving < 1264419383 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ipv4depletion.com/?page_id=4 is interesting < 1264419419 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what's the command-line command to look up DNS? < 1264419435 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :preferably, one that lets you pick a different DNS for the single command, and which can retrieve AAAA records < 1264419473 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: dig? < 1264419485 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1264419539 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-t to set type to look (any for all types), @ to set address, and then name to look up after that. < 1264419552 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow DNS is fast < 1264419597 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, seems that the local DNS here has ipv6 addresses < 1264419605 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though I don't think the local network connectivity does ipv6 < 1264419656 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... Freenode IPv6 addresses don't seem to work, but querying .com nameservers over IPv6 does work. < 1264419825 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, it seems that smuggle.intercal.org.uk and select.intercal.org.uk are on separate machines < 1264419832 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both accessible over both ipv4 and ipv6 < 1264419984 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the worrying things that is coming out from the Slashdot article I'm reading is that some people apparently blackhole the whole of APNIC in an attempt to stop spam < 1264419988 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which strikes me as a little indiscriminate < 1264420485 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then there are those that blackhole all chinese address ranges. < 1264420984 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :APNIC would be a bigger blackhole then just China, wouldn't it? < 1264421073 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. And includes stuff like .jp and .au too. < 1264421122 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dig was just what I was looking for, by the way < 1264421557 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"host" is another such tool, but dig is more DNS-like in its replies. < 1264421751 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun, i should be at uni in 4 minutes, and the door is broken, can't get out. < 1264421769 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder who i'm supposed to call in a situation like this < 1264421874 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it a door you own, or a university-owned door? < 1264421881 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the first, call a locksmith < 1264421884 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the second, I don't know < 1264421895 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it may be worth calling security (on a non-emergency number) < 1264421899 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially as it's a fire risk < 1264421976 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my own < 1264421992 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but turns out there's a keyhole on the inside as well < 1264421995 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that opened it < 1264422022 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1264422099 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also this other lock, i assumed that was broken or something, so i started unscrewing it to see what's inside, and now i've lost the screw i took out. < 1264422135 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't you be at uni already? < 1264422141 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6 minutes ago < 1264422144 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more than 4 minutes since you had to be there 4 minutes ago < 1264422171 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :takes about 3 to get there, so not that bad < 1264422175 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1264424092 0 :FireFly!n=firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1264425773 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@host86-166-170-104.range86-166.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1264426818 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1264426851 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird was last visibly active on Reddit 7 days ago < 1264427376 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1264427382 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That "plain english" thing reminds me of ORK < 1264427774 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1264428082 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :scarf|away < 1264428135 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@adsl-71-142-225-118.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1264428569 0 :MigoMipo!n=migomipo@84-217-12-113.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1264428758 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1264430318 0 :scarf!i=93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/x-cnemnqeyetemaxbz JOIN :#esoteric < 1264430338 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay for going on IRC in the middle of marking people doing Java < 1264430378 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fun thing is, most of them didn't turn up to the tutorials, so didn't manage to agree a time to be marked, making it more-or-less anarchy < 1264430386 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay for anything that involves not doing Java. < 1264431238 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1264431271 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, my current belief, based on 1 sample, is that knowing Java is all that it takes to get a job nowadays < 1264431288 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1264431338 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if INTERCAL would be more enjoyable to mark
< 1264431355 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has the advantage of not being Java, but there are several disadvantages in using it for teaching < 1264431461 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if anyone could enjoy marking it it would be you... < 1264431497 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is Java considered so horrible, exactly? And is C# considered better (except for the licensing BS)? < 1264431910 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most modern languages are at least a smidge multi-paradigm. < 1264431917 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But even C is more multi-paradigm than Java is. < 1264432068 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Want closures? Sure, we can kinda do that! Make the variables you want access to final, create an anonymous class with a single member function which takes no arguments (because that would be helpful) and returns Object, instantiate that, and then pass it 'round as a Runner object! That's so similar to closures it BLOWS MY MIND. < 1264432100 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just realized, I'm taking all 300-level courses this semester < 1264432111 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this will either go well or very poorly < 1264432164 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Course levels are meaningless. < 1264432233 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh. well, they exist. < 1264432240 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@cpc11-pres4-0-0-cust168.pres.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1264432312 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: now it feels so much less dramatic >_> < 1264432324 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1264432356 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay okay. instance where levels matter: you need 3 300-level compsci courses before you can apply for grad courses < 1264432394 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is more of a department-specific thing < 1264432501 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(by comparison, my other semesters have had 0, 1, and 1 300-level course respectively..) < 1264432554 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We don't have that kind of levels at all. :/ < 1264432603 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The courses belong to various sort of "modules" or some-such that is somehow related to their difficulty. I think; I don't really know how it goes nowadays. < 1264432681 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And some selection of them have the "suitable for people who already have their master's degree and are studying for a doctoral degree" flag on too. < 1264433034 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well I'm taking all 500-level courses. < 1264433035 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO BUCK UP < 1264433036 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1264433066 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This week I am also teaching a 500-level course. Go me!) < 1264433338 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without knowing the scale, that doesn't say much. How high do the levels go? < 1264433385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was highlighted, out of scrollback < 1264433392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1264433412 0 :cpressey!n=CPressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1264433485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, btw I implemented BOOL in cfunge today, quite surprised me that it turned out to be using bitwise operators instead of logical ones. Since the fingerprint was described as "Logical functions" < 1264433683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and I can't possibly implement RAND in efunge. It has an instruction for getting max range of integer randomness. But efunge uses bignum cells, and erlang's random:uniform/1 has no upper limit as far as I can tell. < 1264433729 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: then pick an arbitrary limit and use it < 1264433765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, that feels so wrong! < 1264433789 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't disagree < 1264433793 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's what you must do! < 1264433876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cfunge: speed and correctness (and no memory leaks) are more important than anything else. efunge: no arbitrary limits. Oh and ATHR (a fingerprint for async befunge threads) < 1264433886 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the goals you could say < 1264433923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ATHR is still work in progress < 1264433934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :parts of it work, and some parts even have test cases < 1264433984 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, I guess returning -1 could work, I use -1 for size of funge cell in y. < 1264434023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since giving a size in bytes is meaningless if you don't have an upper limit < 1264434060 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, bignum intercal would be interesting btw < 1264434064 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: how is it possible to generate a uniform random number from 0 to infinity? < 1264434085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, it isn't, you *have* to give a limit. Just you can give any limit. < 1264434091 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1264434099 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is Ungefunge Turing-complete? < 1264434110 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :couldn't you give -1 or 0, isn't that the typical efunge/befunge-108 reaction? < 1264434122 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also, it should be -110 by now...) < 1264434132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, look at RAND http://www.rcfunge98.com/rcsfingers.html#RAND < 1264434137 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1264434143 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is M there < 1264434159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think erlang allows you to keep separate seeds < 1264434177 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the considered-as-unsigned is fun too < 1264434182 0 :jix!n=jix@cyb0rg.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1264434183 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1264434183 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what exactly is (unsigned bigint)-1? < 1264434189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no clue < 1264434212 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that, in order to be compatible with other RAND implementations, you should wrap mod 2^64 < 1264434213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really erlang doesn't fit the rcs fingerprints very well < 1264434213 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: uniform number from 0 to infinity is not defined in usual probability theory. and if you try to define it you'd get that you select an incomprehensibly large number with probability 1 < 1264434220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in many ways < 1264434224 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I know < 1264434238 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm slightly surprised that there's an unusual probability theory that does describe it < 1264434238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like one that more or less requires an union { float, int }; (FPSP) < 1264434250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I considering using type-tagged cells for it < 1264434261 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be done in erlang, just would be messy < 1264434263 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you can surely encode a bigfloat in a bigint somehow < 1264434272 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that strikes me as the obvious response < 1264434282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, ah but the precision is fixed. Also erlang only have double when it comes to floating point iirc < 1264434297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except when packing/unpacking binary data < 1264434299 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: reading the spec, it looks like you should return a magic value larger than every other for y < 1264434300 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, encoding a double as a bigint is even eaiser < 1264434307 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and IIRC, float = double is a valid implementation of C < 1264434311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, MAX_BIGINT < 1264434312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1264434313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah* < 1264434321 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there so should be MAX_BIGINT < 1264434327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, sure it is. Just erlang throws an exception on NaN < 1264434328 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can encode it as (unsigned bigint)-1 < 1264434331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes it a pita < 1264434338 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use a non-signalling NaN? < 1264434342 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does it not distinguish? < 1264434344 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use an infinity atom < 1264434346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, no such thing in erlang indeed < 1264434374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, same goes for +/- inf for some unknown reason < 1264434387 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1264434399 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the floating-point standards distinguish between a huge number of different sorts of NaN < 1264434408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, didn't python use to do something similar some time ago? < 1264434411 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but quiet/signalling is the important distinction < 1264434425 0 :MizardX!n=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1264434427 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("not a positive number" and "not a negative number" can also be intuited from the info given, I think) < 1264434440 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: where is the RAND instruction defined? < 1264434451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, I linked it above: http://www.rcfunge98.com/rcsfingers.html#RAND < 1264434455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also not an instruction < 1264434457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a fingerprint < 1264434470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that implements I, M, R, S and T < 1264434492 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... SGNE looks like it could do with having some way to send a signal to another process < 1264434507 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1264434527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, half of his fingerprints are good, half are late night ideas. Almost all are underspeced and badly documented < 1264434531 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the spec suggests that cell 2 of the y instruction should return infinity < 1264434533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least he have test suites somewhere < 1264434543 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait I already said that < 1264434545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, yeah but there is no such thing in bignum is there? < 1264434547 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: IMO it just adds to the fun < 1264434562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, as in, you can always add one < 1264434574 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least the whole FING/FNGR thing was fixed, it reminds me sort-of of OOXML mandating the leapyear bug < 1264434576 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use an infinity atom < 1264434579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(until you hit the memory limit of whatever arch you use) < 1264434601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I certainly think pushing a sized cell is a bad idea < 1264434636 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I note that UNIX effectively requires running as root < 1264434640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1264434646 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a mindboggling thing to do with a Befunge fingerprint < 1264434655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I won't implement it since I'm too scared to test it! < 1264434675 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? it's allowed to error < 1264434689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, still need to check that it *would* work as root using a test suite < 1264434700 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1264434701 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(thing I randomly came across clicking on links; if you tried to mail someone not in /etc/passwd using sendmail, you got an error "scarf: not a typewriter") < 1264434711 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use strace? < 1264434711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycology + various other test suites give me a 80%+ line coverage of the code < 1264434717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both for efunge and cfunge < 1264434727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that is just looking at executable lines of code of course) < 1264434738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, too easy to miss something. < 1264434745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, SGNE looks like a pita both for cfunge and efunge < 1264434757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for efunge, well it could be running on multiple computers < 1264434758 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because libc uses isatty in order to determine whether to line-buffer or block-buffer files, and doesn't always reset errno; it's like the whole error: success thing, just with a funnier message) < 1264434763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is supported in theory < 1264434771 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(apparently this bug is reproducable on OS X even nowadays) < 1264434778 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to run the funge space process on another erlang node than the current IP is running < 1264434826 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1264434828 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also what is the parameter to S < 1264434833 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why Erlang is awesome < 1264434835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't see it documented there < 1264434845 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set the uid? < 1264434853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, actually I think it would require a few lines of code changes, since it uses ETS tables < 1264434869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that are public, non-sync requiring writes won't go through the funge space daemon < 1264434894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only bounds of funge-space updates are sent to it, and CAS (relative special synced get/put) < 1264434901 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? because of ATHR < 1264434942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, and ets tables aren't available on remote nodes iirc. mnesia is yes but it uses a process that uses those ets tables < 1264434963 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1264435031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really ATHR does strange and interesting things to the whole efunge < 1264435039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would hate to try to implement it in C < 1264435069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, another fingerprint on that page that makes no sense in bignum funges is LONG < 1264435087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, plus it even breaks programs if you change cell size < 1264435089 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: on the contrary, I'd imagine that implementing double-size bignums is really easy < 1264435092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why it is a bad idea (TM) < 1264435113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, yeah but programs won't be portable even between 32-bit cells and 64-bit cells (cfunge by default uses the latter) < 1264435131 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they'd be portable if they used the INTERCAL method < 1264435135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1264435142 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, all constants must be single-cell, but you can make larger constants by doing arithmetic < 1264435149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1264435162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reminds me of ICAL there, I can't see how to do it for bignum < 1264435181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it specs you shouldn't < 1264435183 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some extra fun, do IFFI bignum < 1264435192 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, that probably isn't very difficult < 1264435197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, IFFI, as in the cfunge<->c-intercal interface? < 1264435200 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you'll be reflecting on things out of the range of the INTERCAL progrm < 1264435201 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes < 1264435206 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, ais wrote it, not me < 1264435210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just wrote cfunge < 1264435237 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite for a bit, anyway, I'm trying to mark Java < 1264435250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"quite for a bit"? < 1264435254 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quiet? < 1264435255 0 :MissPiggy!n=quantum@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1264435271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, ^ < 1264435278 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1264435281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1264435317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm erlang does have bitwise not < 1264435323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does that work for bignum... < 1264435408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f = fun (N) -> io:format("~.2B~n~.2B~n", [N, bnot N]) end. was unhelpful < 1264435413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it still prints it with sign < 1264435423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err F < 1264435448 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9> F(999999999999999999999999999999). < 1264435448 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1100100111110010110010011100110100000100011001110100111011011110101000111111111111111111111111111111 < 1264435448 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-1100100111110010110010011100110100000100011001110100111011011110101001000000000000000000000000000000 < 1264435450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay < 1264435451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1264435483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it is just change the sign until you try to pack it with <<>> < 1264435494 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION subtly reminds AnMaster that scarf _is_ ais.
< 1264435500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, is he? < 1264435501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wth < 1264435506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1264435509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's crazy < 1264435526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, 1) I wasn't around when he changed to it afaik 2) why the nick change? < 1264435540 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed i was SHOCKED, SHOCKED < 1264435558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, also he could have said < 1264435561 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, whois is your friend < 1264435570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I don't whois everyone all the time < 1264435572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why should I < 1264435593 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because some people have a habit of changing nicks regularly < 1264435599 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, not ais though < 1264435605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari yes < 1264435608 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, which is why i was SHOCKED < 1264435619 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: BOOL uses bitwise ops? How'd you infer that? < 1264435623 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, Ilari? < 1264435630 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1264435633 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I misremember < 1264435639 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION was mostly thinking of ehird and ihope
< 1264435644 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, from the test suite and from checking rc98 code < 1264435659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it tests for that it is bitwise < 1264435665 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh < 1264435670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ah yes ihope, that was it < 1264435677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone i.* anyway < 1264435718 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and fax, don't forget him < 1264435732 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1264436027 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :oklofok < 1264436062 0 :scarf!i=93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/x-nvokymtkctncoxtg JOIN :#esoteric < 1264436071 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, that bit of marking done < 1264436076 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did I miss anything important? < 1264436085 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, you missed my relevant nick change < 1264436089 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we revealed all your secrets BWAHAHA < 1264436093 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would have lurked, but AnMaster kept pinging me and I was trying to mark someone's Java in front of the computer < 1264436094 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and that < 1264436097 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all the pings were distracting me < 1264436111 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it behaved really weirdly, too < 1264436125 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first time I ran it, it created a 0x0 unresizable window rather than a 600x400 one < 1264436137 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second time, it drew the window at the right size but didn't draw anything in it < 1264436141 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the third time, it worked < 1264436153 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is without any recompilation or changing any of the relevant files in between < 1264436168 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nothing in the code suggested that it was stateful < 1264436366 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1264436380 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... this reddit thread says that zip disks used to get hardware viruses < 1264436399 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the disk was damaged, it would damage the drive heads of a drive it was inserted into < 1264436409 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in such a way that the drive then damaged all disks that were inserted in it from then on < 1264436421 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1264436455 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently this could go back and forth ad infinitum < 1264436464 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would make it a really impressive example of a hardware virus < 1264436737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, ah okay < 1264436742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you could have said you were ais < 1264436744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1264436753 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you mean it isn't obvious from my cloak and /ns info? < 1264436758 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you not pay attention to join messages? < 1264436759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, I didn't look at that < 1264436783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, also you joined before I reconnected to the bouncer. it only replays messages < 1264436785 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the joins < 1264436819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway your cloak is "gateway/web/freenode/x-nvokymtkctncoxtg" < 1264436823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that doesn't help at all < 1264436905 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from here, yes < 1264436907 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't normally, though < 1264436916 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I've been online at the same time as you plenty of times over the last few days < 1264436926 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no I haven't noticed < 1264436931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why the nick change? < 1264437062 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because ais *is* a scarf. < 1264437072 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an indigo scarf < 1264437073 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: amusing typo < 1264437103 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, relatively common real word that isn't taken < 1264437178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, typo for? < 1264437193 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember < 1264437197 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't "ais523" though < 1264437237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah getting from ais523 to scarf sounds hard < 1264437530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, btw ever considered writing a befunge backend for gcc? < 1264437540 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1264437547 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be rather bad befunge anyway < 1264437554 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc is very specialised for outputting asm < 1264437554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1264437564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you could write a bf->befunge compiler < 1264437565 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the less similar its output lang is to asm, the worse it performs < 1264437578 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? someone tried it for other languages? < 1264437607 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my educated guess is that was an educated guess < 1264437614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1264437717 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: consider I spent months trying to figure out how gcc worked < 1264437732 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the answer is, it mostly doesn't; the code seems to only be tested in the cases that are actually used < 1264437882 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, I saved all that time by just assuming that :) < 1264437910 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cynicism is efficient! < 1264437925 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was under the impression gcc was a very well coded piece of shit < 1264437928 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1264437935 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where piece of shit means program < 1264437978 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. More like "very well tested". < 1264437990 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing about it says "well coded". < 1264438012 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i c < 1264438021 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know where i've gotten that impression < 1264438040 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well "very well tested", maybe i've just heard rumors it doesn't have many bugs. < 1264438049 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't really used it much < 1264438154 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's rather well-known as not having much internal documentation, and being one of the slowest compilers... < 1264438213 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But extremely conformant :) < 1264438237 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1264438323 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ♥ GCC
< 1264438503 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I despise it, but I despise it less than most other C compilers. :P < 1264438517 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION <3 clang
< 1264438663 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( gcc < 1264438756 0 :tombom!i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1264439178 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Halp, more wikipedians are invading #esoteric < 1264439192 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quick, fight back with tvtropers < 1264439208 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That idea is so bad it's horrible! < 1264439219 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, the wikipedians here tend to be pretty good < 1264439233 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, TVTropes is not your personal army < 1264439237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also what about g++ < 1264439245 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :g++ is hilaaaaaaaaarious < 1264439245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now that is not only messy and such. it is also buggy < 1264439253 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's a gcc wrapper, more or less, I think < 1264439279 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster refers not to the binary "g++", but to GCC's C++ support, namely cc1plus < 1264439300 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strictly speaking, gcc itself is merely a wrapper. < 1264439305 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, the bits of gcc I looked at were mostly past the language-specific stage < 1264439311 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1264439315 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, huh < 1264439322 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes what Gregor said < 1264439328 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc and g++ are both wrappers for the internal drivers < 1264439330 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although gcc-bf doesn't include support for exceptions, so you couldn't target it with C++ < 1264439341 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh nose D-8 < 1264439348 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clang currently has a similar model, though it's all one self-invoking executable file right now < 1264439367 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eventually they plan to move it all to one execution < 1264439370 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All compilers have a similar model *shrugs* < 1264439377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why the internal driver stuff < 1264439380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fail to see the point < 1264439382 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if it's all in one execution, it's just drivers calling drivers. < 1264439382 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clang also has a bit more to wrap -- clang is only a frontend, after all. < 1264439389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, well yes < 1264439390 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, it's so hard to read leaked internal Microsoft emails because apparently they top-post < 1264439393 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can they get any work done? < 1264439393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes sense < 1264439400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to separate frontend from backend < 1264439412 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boo topposting < 1264439413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that isn't language and codegen I'm talking about here) < 1264439418 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, they use Outlook? < 1264439424 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: almost certainly < 1264439427 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION blames Gmail
< 1264439428 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And to seperate backend from linker. < 1264439431 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but even in outlook, top-posting is a sin < 1264439433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : how can they get any work done? <-- they can? < 1264439439 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to try to edit the message into something more readable yourself < 1264439445 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want an option to bottom-post, dammit < 1264439450 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The internal version of Outlook has a secret feature that converts top-posted emails into bottom-posted emails for view :P < 1264439474 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer top-posting for one-on-one e-mail < 1264439490 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer not to use e-mail < 1264439500 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only thing worse that top-posters are the people who both top-post and leave 14 nested quote contexts in the email < 1264439513 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION kills them all
< 1264439521 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I USE GOOGLE WAAAAAAAAAAE < 1264439525 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*waaaaave < 1264439543 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION euthanizes Gregor
< 1264439554 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1264439573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use irc < 1264439580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm top posting on irc < 1264439583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be interesting < 1264439584 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_O < 1264439587 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...no < 1264439590 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O < 1264439593 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just make an irc client that scrolls the other way < 1264439594 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I top-post when replying to top-posting people (which seems to be almost everyone these days) because otherwise one ends up with really silly-looking messages. (Well, unless you trim with a very heavy hand.) < 1264439599 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, last line at the top < 1264439631 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clairvoyants can top-post in the normal-style IRC. < 1264439650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1264439736 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if you could top-post in IRC somehow ... < 1264439737 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG < 1264439739 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FIZZIE JUST DID! < 1264439744 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You're welcome. < 1264439761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's more like reverse bottom posting < 1264439763 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank yous. < 1264439989 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: when someone sends me an email with top-posting in I rearrange the whole thing to bottom-posting before replying < 1264440005 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is top-posting bad? < 1264440013 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: because the answer comes before the question < 1264440027 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have to read the email from bottom upwards to get the flow of conversation, but downwards within each message < 1264440032 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...so? < 1264440039 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you're jumping around scrolling up and down to read everything in order < 1264440049 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get the most relevant thing first, if you don't remember everything, read bottom to top as much as you need < 1264440051 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically it doesn't matter if you're getting emails one at a time and you remember the conversation < 1264440056 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: Because people lurrve to complain about the most minor things in life. < 1264440063 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ah! < 1264440070 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you're trying to catch up on a thread late, it's really annoying < 1264440083 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the case of the leaked Microsoft email I was reading, the OP was the most interesting and relevant post < 1264440088 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yet it was right at the bottom < 1264440104 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1264440107 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's true < 1264440116 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like a job for Gregor's R->L parser < 1264440127 0 :Sgeo|web!i=897d292b@gateway/web/freenode/x-cahhfrvepitwnpml JOIN :#esoteric < 1264440145 0 :Sgeo|web!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The JS client is broken for me on Chrome. When I stop it, I can't start it again < 1264440156 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another thing is that all the answers come in one block, and after that all questions in one block; I personally prefer a properly trimmed-and-quoted thing where the answers come after the relevant quoted bits. < 1264440193 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what about inline response < 1264440206 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, commenting on various sections on it < 1264440246 0 :Sgeo|web!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is jealous of fizzie having solved 40 or so in the past 24h
< 1264440303 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, that's what I mean by "properly trimmed-and-quoted thing where the answers come after the relevant quoted bits". < 1264440307 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1264440312 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should get an account so I can track my progress < 1264440334 0 :Sgeo|web!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it just me, or is Robozzle slow right now/ < 1264440352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, a true bottom poster would reply to *everything* at the end < 1264440354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no matter what < 1264440373 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There aren't very many of those, I don't think. It's either the "right" way, or the top-posting way. < 1264440382 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, based on the sample of emails I get. < 1264440393 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: I've been twiddling the game with the phone when technically listening to lectures; for some inexplicable reason I have an urge to get the campaign list completely done. < 1264440407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you would make a graph of the percentages over time < 1264440422 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to be missing 16. < 1264440429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16 what? < 1264440443 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was still to Sgeo. < 1264440445 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie how come you're so good at robozzle < 1264440445 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1264440445 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1264440466 0 :Sgeo|web!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You haven't come across the same issue in the JS client? < 1264440502 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy: I'm not really very good, actually; I haven't done ~any of the >4 difficulty ones. < 1264440513 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1264440539 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: Not yet, at least. Though I think I got somehow logged out without doing anything a moment ago. But I might have just gotten some tabs confused. < 1264440636 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1264440709 0 :Sgeo|web!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION solves Early Warning on the first try (if I didn't, I'd have to refresh the page *cries*
< 1264440782 0 :scarf|away!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :scarf < 1264440830 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, now I got a "Server Error in '/' Application" from the JS client. < 1264440839 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oo that one looks tricky < 1264440865 0 :Sgeo|web!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I got a hint from the RoboZZle video, which features Very Early Warning < 1264440961 0 :Sgeo|web!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION switches to IE7 for RoboZZle purposes, the JS client works on it
< 1264440982 0 :Sgeo|web!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except now I'm getting that error < 1264441089 0 :Sgeo|web!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : this minute i am deploying a newer version < 1264441092 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I get it < 1264441107 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1264441112 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how to approach the problem < 1264441132 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously the two functions must mirror each other < 1264441217 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very Early Warning is a reasonably straight-forward extension with four functions. < 1264441237 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still haven't worked some of the recursion bits out in my head < 1264441271 0 :Sgeo|web!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you want a slight hint? < 1264441319 0 :Sgeo|web!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lol, Cube Extreme's F2 has _one_ slot < 1264441323 0 :Sgeo|web!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Making it literally useless < 1264441423 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oo < 1264441564 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :labyrinth has too many open spaces < 1264441572 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only need 6 cells < 1264441636 0 :Sgeo|web!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :open spaces can increase the psychological difficulty, or can be because the author didn't find the shortest possible solution < 1264441665 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: "Incomplete grid" had 5+5+10 (F1+F2+F3) slots, and my solution used just the five slots out of F1 and the other two functions not at all. < 1264441675 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oo < 1264441687 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah, me too < 1264441691 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one was easy < 1264441734 0 :augur!n=augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1264441748 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1264441764 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know there's one stack trick I'm missing :( < 1264441793 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1264441833 0 :Sgeo|web!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://robozzle.com/my < 1264441840 0 :Sgeo|web!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has a solution viewer :D < 1264441893 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have an account < 1264441930 0 :Sgeo|web!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then make one. (It only shows your solutions, btw) < 1264441946 0 :bsmntbombdood_!n=gavin@97-118-210-25.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1264442016 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I need to know is how to make a function that counts up or down each time it's called, like for Cut in half < 1264442020 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1264442022 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nvm < 1264442027 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking about that one wrong < 1264442112 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still need the technique though < 1264442421 0 :Sgeo|web!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Getting loopy is a 5+5+5, I only needed 4+4 < 1264442739 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does this game compare to Rubicon? < 1264442871 0 :Sgeo|web!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rubicon has you build stuff on the level (I think), and this has you give instructions to a robot < 1264442898 0 :Sgeo|web!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if Rubicon is turing-complete. RoboZZle is (given access to the painting commands) < 1264443019 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we agreed Rubicon is (excepting space concerns, of course) < 1264443569 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ghaaa, finally got that silly "Replication Engine" done; took me something like 20 minutes to implement workingly even though the idea is very simple. < 1264443702 0 :Sgeo|web!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION just needs _one_ more slot for "Stacking for not so newbies"
< 1264443736 0 :Sgeo|web!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or not < 1264443920 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :done the first 30 in my account < 1264443925 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time to do last-minute studying < 1264443939 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1264443939 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1264443939 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1264443939 0 :cheater2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1264443939 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1264443940 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1264443941 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1264443941 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1264443941 0 :yiyus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1264443941 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1264443941 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1264443942 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I have a proof < 1264443959 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BCT in Rubicon, the data and program are limited-size but only if the playfield is limited-size < 1264443995 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I suspected you did < 1264444086 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@kekkonen.cs.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1264444249 0 :Sgeo|web!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION fails a puzzle by failing to see a star
< 1264444303 0 :Sgeo|web!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION gives up, for want of a star
< 1264444370 0 :olsner!n=salparot@c83-252-238-148.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1264444370 0 :comex!i=comex@c-98-210-192-54.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1264444370 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric < 1264444370 0 :yiyus!i=12427124@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric < 1264444370 0 :mycroftiv!n=infernus@h69-128-47-243.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1264444376 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1264444403 0 :augur!n=augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1264444435 0 :tombom!i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1264444435 0 :MizardX!n=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1264444435 0 :cheater2!n=cheater@ip-80-226-14-226.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1264444435 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-87-162.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1264444561 0 :Sgeo|web!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION surrenders somewhat easily
< 1264444562 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes I disagree with the difficulty assignments; I found "Replication Engine" (difficulty 4.00) much trickier than "Can you count in binary?" (difficulty 4.13). < 1264445004 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :bsmntbombdood < 1264445154 0 :Sgeo|web!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, they're assigned by the players < 1264445673 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2rGTXHvPCQ&feature=player_embedded < 1264445676 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh lawd < 1264445691 0 :Sgeo|web!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sees a bunch of comments "no need for F2/F3".. but I used F2 and F3
< 1264446095 0 :Sgeo|web!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Going to go get some food now < 1264446275 0 :Sgeo|web!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 180 seconds < 1264447314 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, 4.47 for "Reflection"... < 1264447654 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1264451398 0 :Wareya!n=wareya@cpe-74-70-140-214.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1264452748 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, but isn't Rubicon basically RUBE? < 1264452758 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and wasn't RUBE proved TC iirc? < 1264452800 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I proved Rubicon TC in its own right < 1264452811 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and RedGreen is TC, but IIRC RUBE hasn't been shown either way < 1264453336 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Intrigued by pikhq's reference, I'm trying to build clang right now... under cygwin... < 1264453352 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(always a fun crap shoot) < 1264453404 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I don't think clang supports i686-pc-win32. < 1264453411 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :May end up with a cross-compiler. < 1264453434 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, I'm wrong. Supports it just fine. < 1264453437 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Isn't the question whether LLVM supports it? < 1264453454 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: C needs the frontend to support it as well. < 1264453474 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The LLVM generated is machine-dependent. < 1264453599 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I see. Makes sense. Well, I had gotten past "./configure" and it didn't barf, so I was hopeful, anyway. < 1264453922 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't cygwin run under a linux emulation dll? < 1264454079 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1264454253 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wareya: mostly, but there are all kinds of details relevant to compilers that aren't handled by it. For example, executable format. I don't think it can handle ELF... < 1264454287 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not to mention that its emulation of Linux is... not perfect. < 1264454454 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wareya: No, Cygwin runs under a DLL that provides POSIX functions. < 1264454471 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not Linux, it's another UNIX. < 1264454503 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Cygwin uses PE for its executable format, with an executable postfix of .exe and a library postfix of .so. < 1264454507 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. < 1264454507 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.dll < 1264454534 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry. meant POSIX when I said Linux... < 1264454976 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1264455509 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1264455613 0 :augur_!n=augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1264455648 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1264455898 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Close enough. < 1264455905 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1264456248 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1264456380 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And in fact, clang trunk errors out in build on my cygwin install. Lovely. Well, it seems to be one of the debug tools, can probably just skip it. < 1264456498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, probably no one really cares about cygwin these days < 1264456515 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :real *nix ftw < 1264456533 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LLVM trunk moves so fast, you can't expect it to work at any given time. < 1264456539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1264456546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use the releases anyway < 1264456549 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They do have a cygwin buildbot, IIRC. < 1264456554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? heh < 1264456609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, do you usually use windows? < 1264456632 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not happily. < 1264456643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, ah, linux desktop? or os x? < 1264456684 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: to be more specific, I do usually use Windows these days, it's just that, I don't do so with much joy in my heart. < 1264456707 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The logical question then is: why use it if it makes you sad < 1264456786 0 :Gregor-L!n=Gregor@65.183.185.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1264456787 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Observation: < 1264456790 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suck at drums. < 1264456802 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you're supposed to beat them. < 1264456803 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: because being not sad is not, it turns out, a huge priority. < 1264456835 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, then, is? < 1264456860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, unless you need 3D virtualbox or such might work well < 1264456873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even with 3D iirc virtualbox has some support for that nowdays < 1264456874 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: at the moment, something closer to sheer survival. < 1264456891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1264456906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, programs for work? < 1264456908 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: as it turns out, I am running Ubuntu in a VMWare VM on this machine, and as my main OS on my machine at home. < 1264456917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1264456921 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: pretty much/ < 1264456927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so my guess was pretty close then yeah < 1264456945 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess what I'm trying to fish for is what specifically is it that forces you to use Win < 1264456955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that is interesting too < 1264456968 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it was really important for me to get clang running, I probably would have tried it in the VM. But for kicks, it's hey, let's try cygwin!! < 1264456983 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: ... other people? < 1264457004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, did it work? < 1264457031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, also to what degree does the compiler have to support *.dll and *.exe. Isn't that mostly the linker? < 1264457032 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, there's some kind of error in the profiling library too < 1264457037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrrm < 1264457040 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Probably not the people themselves, but a certain piece of software (not Windows itself) they expect you to use? < 1264457058 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: sure. < 1264457074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, I think Deewiant is trying to ask what those pieces of software are < 1264457090 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Many and varied. < 1264457101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I think you are almost deliberately avoiding answering it straight ;P < 1264457108 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gee, you think? :-P < 1264457124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which just makes us more interested of course < 1264457130 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Re. *.dll and *.exe: beats me < 1264457149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well I guess some support for calling conventions and object format < 1264457173 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, so any examples? :) < 1264457192 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Calling conventions is a bit of a separate thing, but yes, of course the object format that your linker expects as input :-P < 1264457214 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, also GOT or whatever equiv windows uses < 1264457225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the compiler has to know part of it < 1264457235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what the __dllspec thing is for isn't it? < 1264457240 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not 100% sure what the GOT is, but isn't it part of the object format < 1264457257 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what __dllspec is for, I know precious little about dynamic linking. < 1264457257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, global offset table < 1264457266 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I knew that, but not much more. < 1264457282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and __dllspec is used similar to __attribute__, that is to annotate functions < 1264457287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a specific annotation iirc < 1264457289 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that, too. < 1264457290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also windows only < 1264457305 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I think it is used to modify the calling sequence somewhat < 1264457322 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just the calling convention? < 1264457331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh and for exporting symbols < 1264457338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I meant when importing it < 1264457365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, not "calling convention" as in "put value in register x" < 1264457370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but as in "jump to y" < 1264457378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also if I don't misremember *.exe and *.dll have separate memory spaces or some shit like that on windows < 1264457382 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah right < 1264457385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that is so weird I *might* have dreamt it < 1264457386 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"dllimport" linkage causes the compiler to reference a function or variable via a global pointer to a pointer that is set up by the DLL exporting the symbol. On Microsoft Windows targets, the pointer name is formed by combining __imp_ and the function or variable name. < 1264457407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ye gods, worse than I remembered < 1264457494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, btw source? < 1264457502 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://llvm.org/docs/LangRef.html < 1264457601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm interesting there < 1264457603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"fastcc" < 1264457614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder if you can reach it through clang < 1264457623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or llvm-gcc for that matter < 1264457641 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean emit code that uses it? Just make a file-local function. < 1264457653 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well between files I meant < 1264457666 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LTO should do it. < 1264457669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1264458083 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1264458352 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of the nicest things about LLVM is the LTO you can do with it. < 1264458367 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1264458376 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(GCC 4.5 is also getting that; they make the compiler output GIMPLE in object files) < 1264458376 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1264459030 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1264459998 0 :augur!n=augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1264460484 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which presumably means that either ld will gain some compilation support (ew) or that gcc, when used to link, actually does some trickery before calling ld. < 1264460571 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: gold has plugin support. < 1264460590 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ld ends up calling out to GCC at link time, in effect. < 1264460609 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The same setup is used for LLVM's LTO. < 1264460633 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(gold is an optional part of GNU binutils) < 1264460666 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yo dawg, I heard you like to compile, so I put a compiler in your linker, so you can compile while you link. < 1264460971 0 :nooga!n=nooga@sc82.internetdsl.tpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1264460973 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1264461004 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: GCC also has plugin support now. < 1264461016 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there lazy, functional esolangs that resemble haskell? < 1264461029 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"resemble Haskell", no. < 1264461056 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"lazy, functional esolang", yes. LazyK < 1264461086 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't mean the syntax < 1264461091 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but rather < 1264461093 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1264461143 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LazyK has S, K, and I. < 1264461149 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too minimal < 1264461191 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IO is perfomred by considering the program a function from input to output. < 1264461199 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to program in a sanscrit version of lisp < 1264461235 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(यन्त्र (संस्कृता) वाक्) < 1264461255 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also possesses 3 syntaxes. < 1264461267 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy, do you know sanscrit? < 1264461273 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no but that would help me learn it < 1264461280 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1264461292 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hanguk is interesting < 1264461309 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder why nobody tried to design hanguk based esolang < 1264461328 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is that? < 1264461348 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hangul < 1264461356 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant hangul < 1264461439 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know why it would be a good language < 1264461448 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's peculiar abou tit? < 1264461492 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1264461517 0 :nooga_!n=nooga@sc82.internetdsl.tpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1264461522 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: It's been done. < 1264461539 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Aheui < 1264461573 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is good ㅙ < 1264461590 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DAMN < 1264461621 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga_: but we could always use more :) < 1264461633 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1264461849 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1264462089 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird < 1264462099 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i always use ruby for prototyping < 1264462371 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today's game-music attempt (not yet complete): http://filebin.ca/wakrx/zee2.ogg < 1264462459 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :annoying < 1264462481 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gee :P < 1264462492 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean the instruments < 1264462507 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D-8. I spent /so damn long/ choosing those instruments X-D < 1264462524 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the composition is nice < 1264462550 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1264462575 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :nooga < 1264462626 0 :cheater3!n=cheater@ip-80-226-14-226.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1264462688 0 :cheater2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1264462726 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're too hi-fi < 1264462739 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who needs a synth trumpet when you can use a sawtooth < 1264462744 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah! < 1264462751 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :square is the best < 1264462768 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a proper arpeggio < 1264462773 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl, yesterday all my instruments were too synthy, now they're not synthy enough :P < 1264462782 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use real ones < 1264462790 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What a simple solution :P < 1264462804 0 :Pthing!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the people yesterday were wrong < 1264462809 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or samples < 1264462816 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soundfonts < 1264462823 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: This is from a soundfont, from samples X_X < 1264462831 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1264462841 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought it was cheap midi synthesizer < 1264462850 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yesterday I was writing this: http://codu.org/music/vg/zee1.ogg , not zee2, btw. < 1264462851 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;C < 1264462877 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The trumpet sounds the worst, the others actually sound pretty good. < 1264462947 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1264462982 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, the trumpet ruins everything. I guess I need to go soundfont hunting for a trumpet. < 1264463891 0 :MizardX-!n=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1264463905 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes to bed