00:00:55 -!- soupdragon has quit ("Leaving"). 00:04:52 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Client Quit). 00:10:35 -!- augur has joined. 00:12:32 How dare you say Python sucks??? 00:13:26 python is a programming language 00:14:40 (an awesome one) 00:15:32 Sgeo: It does. 00:19:31 Type system sucks: you get types like (draw :: None) and you could pass either a Cowboy or a Pencil for it, which is nonsensical. Types are only checked at runtime. Statements are not expressions. IO is not explicitly declared, and so mysterious side-effects are easy. Lambdas can only contain an expression, thus making them effectively useless because of "statements are not expressions". Creator is an idiot who thinks you don't need tail-call optimisation be 00:19:31 tail-*recursive* functions can be written as a loop. 00:19:45 *because 00:19:46 not be 00:19:47 stupid client 00:21:29 "Alexa said "Most visited website"" That is NOT a reason to rate a site as trustworthy or good! 00:21:41 Gee, you didn't complain about that yesterday. 00:25:40 somehow feeling slightly related, has an internet mob ever got an innocent person killed yet? 00:26:06 it's bound to happen eventually 00:27:32 yeah, thinking about it, I'm kind of surprised it hasn't happened yet (perhaps I just missed it though) 00:28:23 -!- ehird_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:31:39 -!- bsmntbombdood has changed nick to bsmntbombgirl. 00:36:55 Has an Internet mob ever killed anyone? 00:37:51 "Alexa said "Most visited website"" That is NOT a reason to rate a site as trustworthy or good! <-- context? 00:38:26 http://www.mywot.com/en/scorecard/www.python.org 00:38:39 Same user does it for other sites, including ones that everyone else rates as untrustworthy 00:41:58 Sgeo, doesn't seem like a credible site that "mywot" 00:44:49 night → 00:44:52 Night 00:46:00 Web of Trust is credible enough, it's just stupid. 00:52:07 ehird, you make Python sound like a worse version of Haskell. 00:52:18 uorygl: That's because it is. 00:52:22 * uorygl nods. 00:52:23 Most languages are. :P 00:53:03 Hmm, we should take Python and change it so that it's exactly like Haskell. 00:53:14 We could call it Haskell. 00:53:24 Except it'll still look like this: 00:53:26 def main: 00:53:33 putStr("Hello, world!\n") 00:53:43 Thereby making it inarguably inferior. 00:54:05 You said *exactly* like Haskell. 00:54:15 Also, it'd be main = putStr("Hello, world!\n") 00:54:16 :P 00:59:26 Well, yeah. "def x:\n 3" and "x = 3" would be equivalent. 00:59:26 rubbish, it'd be main = putStrLn "Hello, world!" 00:59:41 main = putStr("Hello, world!\n") is valid Haskell. 00:59:52 It's also valid Python! 00:59:53 but _so_ unidiomatic 01:00:32 Yeah. 01:00:55 This would make it actually work the way it looks like it should work: 01:01:00 def putStr: 01:01:07 some stuff that makes it return a thunk 01:01:18 main = putStr("Hello, world!\n") 01:01:19 main() 01:01:53 python.com? 01:01:58 *def putStr(x) 01:02:06 Right. 01:02:08 bsmntbombgirl: Change it so it's exactly like haskell.com. 01:02:19 BUILDING PORN 01:04:08 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 01:04:39 Porn depicting edifices? 01:04:40 newsflash: Uranus may contain liquid carbon 01:05:18 liquid carbon? 01:05:21 how does that work? 01:05:30 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamond#Material_properties 01:05:51 "Research results published in an article in the scientific journal Nature in 2010 suggest that at ultrahigh pressures and temperatures (about 10 million atmospheres or 1 TPa and 50,000 °C) diamond behaves as a metallic fluid." 01:06:04 It works by having lots of carbon atoms that attract each other strongly enough that they undergo surface tension but weakly enough that they can move relative to each other. 01:06:22 And by "move relative to each other", I mean "undergo Brownian motion". 01:06:26 -!- Slereah has joined. 01:06:59 i wonder how attainable those conditions are 01:07:20 as the rest of the section says, neptune and uranus may have them 01:07:36 pouring a 50,000 degree metal into my butt sounds like a good idea 01:07:42 brb 01:08:21 i mean, artificially 01:10:53 ah here is a popular article: http://news.discovery.com/space/diamond-oceans-jupiter-uranus.html 01:11:10 What makes it diamond if it's liquid? 01:11:20 s/popular/popsci/ 01:11:45 That's like taking wood, vaporizing it, and calling the result wood vapor. 01:11:54 bsmntbombgirl: it seems to imply these were actually produced in a laboratory 01:13:57 "Diamond is an incredibly hard material. That alone makes it difficult to melt." my trust in this popsci article is suddenly dropping swiftly :/ 01:14:26 although that was to be expected 01:14:37 Diamond is the hardest metal 01:14:45 i wonder what happens when it recrystalizes 01:14:48 -!- Pthing has joined. 01:14:52 i bet you could make bigger diamonds that way 01:15:08 yes, but my intuition tells me it is unlikely that that implies anything directly about its melting 01:15:24 Diamond doesn't melt, as far as I know 01:15:28 It BUUUURNS 01:15:32 It's made of carbon 01:15:37 Slereah: incredibly high pressure 01:15:57 But then again 01:15:58 see the pressure/temperature chart in my wp link above 01:16:01 If it's melted 01:16:05 It's not diamond 01:16:12 Diamond is about the crystal structure 01:16:32 it's molten _from_ diamond though 01:16:49 as opposed to from another form 01:16:53 Still, it's just a catchy title 01:17:18 The kind they use to make scientific discoveries more interesting than they really are 01:18:28 well metallic fluid carbon is pretty interesting in itself 01:19:38 And yet not enough to get in the title :o 01:20:42 another interesting fact: the solid form floats on the liquid one 01:21:52 now we just need diamond-based lifeforms :D 01:22:01 someone called? 01:22:10 my heart is a ferrofluid 01:22:15 people don't like being around me, apparently it's noisy 01:23:24 anvilicious 01:26:38 it would just be so cool if there were methane-based life on titan, diamond-based on uranus and plasma-based in the sun's atmosphere... 01:26:48 oerjan : You know what else does? 01:26:50 WATER 01:26:56 of course 01:27:06 google just uncensored google.cn, apparently 01:27:19 but iiuc there are very few examples 01:27:50 ehird: that sounds... dangerous 01:28:04 yeah, china are going to fly to the us, collectively 01:28:08 and murder the giant corporation 01:28:09 at least for their employees in china 01:28:16 oh wait 01:28:18 it's still censored 01:28:19 darn 01:28:22 just lies LIES and LIES 01:28:52 as i assumed. i really doubt google would do something that would risk their chinese employees being arrested 01:29:24 i think they are much more likely to just shut down the office, assuming they don't chicken out 01:31:31 -!- augur has quit (lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 01:31:31 -!- MizardX has quit (lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 01:34:16 why does google need an office in china, anyway? 01:34:32 http://hackage.haskell.org/package/acme-now 01:34:43 to earn money there? 01:34:53 drop a couple datacenters there, obviously 01:35:15 they're going to need someone who understands the culture 01:35:59 and to deal with the government. 01:36:30 otherwise they would not have a chance of not getting thrown out, i bet 01:37:44 you see, no matter how much some people would like it, google is _not_ going to be able to actually fight the chinese government in any way from within the country. that is just absurdly optimistic. 01:38:36 oerjan: Well, they *did* convince the government of the United States of America to take a good hard look at China because of their illegal actions... 01:38:42 Which is quite a lot of power... 01:39:19 well true... it might help against the actual hacking. but i doubt china will budge many millimeters on the censorship. 01:41:49 indeed. 01:42:30 -!- mycroftiv has changed nick to mycroshift. 01:53:42 -!- augur has joined. 01:53:42 -!- MizardX has joined. 02:29:43 $ ./sparkline 02:29:44 1 2 3 2 1 02:29:44 ▁▅█▅▁ 02:29:44 $ ./sparkline 1 2 3 02:29:44 ▁▅█ 02:29:47 Fuck yeah, Haskell! 02:29:59 $ wc -l sparkline.hs; wc -l ~/bin/sparkline 02:30:00 32 sparkline.hs 02:30:00 36 /Users/ehird/bin/sparkline 02:30:03 Fuck yeah, Haskell! 02:33:29 * oerjan has the vague memory of writing such a program in haskell before, possibly for lambdabot on #haskell 02:33:42 ~/bin/sparkline is python, btw 02:33:43 and old 02:34:18 oerjan: but does yours handle this? 02:34:19 $ sparkline 10000 -3.4 99 2348 9 4888 9000 02:34:19 █▁▁▂▁▄▇ 02:35:00 probably not, it was just a quick lambdabot command or something 02:35:21 $ sparkline 1 2 3 4 5 6 02:35:21 ▁▂▃▅▆█ 02:35:22 $ sparkline 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 02:35:22 ▁▂▃▄▅▆█ 02:35:22 $ sparkline 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 02:35:22 ▁▂▃▄▅▆▇█ 02:35:24 $ sparkline 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 02:35:26 ▁▁▂▃▄▅▆▇█ 02:37:04 reading this through the logs, IE doesn't seem to align all those blocks at the bottom 02:37:14 well, the last one isn't aligned for me 02:37:17 but the rest are 02:37:34 I prefer this, though, because without those chars there isn't much resolution 02:38:00 mhm 02:53:31 I'm looking through all the QBASIC programs I wrote when I was a kid! They're quite adorable. 02:54:16 also in the same folder were some interesting text documents... very interesting.. 02:54:55 also lolling at a book report I typed out: "I would recommend this book to a friend because it's a wonderful and exciting book. I loved it because you can't wait to hear what happens next. I adored the adventurous plots Georgie went through but I wished the Goose Prince hadn't died. That's what I think of this book." 02:55:47 * ehird attempts to reconcile that line with its predecessor, fails 02:56:16 but that's trivial! 02:57:07 otoh, what if we let them fight to the death instead 02:57:22 also some christian fiction piece that I apparently started and thankfully didn't get too far with. ugh. 02:59:12 That must be really boring fiction, deus ex machinas everywhere 02:59:17 "And then, Jesus did this thing! AXIOMATICALLY!" 02:59:56 as far as I remember, it was more like a god-discovering mary sue 03:00:51 now that I'm reading it, oh jeez. it's such a mary sue :/ 03:01:12 Gracenotes is female! 03:01:18 (Or transgendered.) 03:01:27 okay, or john sue. or something. 03:01:29 mary sue, jesus. sue jesus, mary 03:01:34 the male equivalent thereof 03:01:52 Marty Stu apaprently 03:01:54 Or Gary Stu 03:03:06 haha the originator of the term is hilarious 03:03:07 http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/dark/1000/marysue.htm 03:04:08 looking at my dreidel program again... the one where you press keys and win fake gelt 03:04:21 wat 03:05:25 das ist so falsch 03:11:20 I can paste a giant ascii dreidel into the channel now if you want :| 03:11:35 I made four varieties in said program. one for each side. 03:14:00 so i assume you were jewish :p 03:14:03 no wait, christian 03:14:06 with... jewish culture? 03:14:42 this is confusing! 03:14:57 Jewish family. which went on the Christian side some time in 2001 03:15:32 nowadays they attend church weekly. well, two+ times a week 03:15:53 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messianic_Judaism 03:16:31 but nowadays, mostly run of the mill christianity, plus a few jewish holidays 03:18:42 * oerjan is now less confused 03:19:57 and me, well, with reddit's religion of choice 03:20:33 Hinduism! 03:22:18 -. 03:22:56 .- 03:26:58 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism_in_Hinduism 03:27:43 yes, yes, we get it, people say atheism when they mean rationalism 03:27:46 big news :P 03:29:06 also, atheists believe they are rational 03:29:54 hm actually that should be i think 03:29:58 actually i dont quite understand atheism from a strictly rational perspective - because there seems to be this weird implicit acceptance of an arbitrary a priori definition of the word 'god' 03:30:14 it's called "the West" 03:30:29 it's 03:30:39 ah, perhaps 03:31:26 mycroshift: I don't agree 03:31:36 doesntexist(god) doesn't imply makessense(god) 03:31:49 because things that don't make sense don't exist, obviously 03:31:57 i disagree! 03:32:07 Making sense to who? 03:32:08 also, an interferer is perfectly sense-making 03:32:15 as well as an omniX one for restricted definitions of omniX 03:32:18 Sgeo: as in, logically 03:32:20 coherent idea 03:32:22 consistent 03:32:41 Some definitions of "god" are a coherent idea 03:32:47 they are 03:34:04 -!- pikhq_ has changed nick to pikhq. 03:34:09 well, obviously there is huge diversity under the label, but sometimes you get the strange sense that rationalists who strongly identify with the atheist label are determined to advance the claim that there is somehow both a 'correct' definition of god - and that it is maximally absurd 03:34:22 yesss 03:34:24 the worst part of this 03:34:37 is that the correct definition of god is some kind of american protestant fundamentalist god 03:34:55 they buy into the fundamentalist bullshit as surely as the fundamentalists, except don't get any fun out of it 03:35:00 There are definitions of "god" that most would call "incorrect": "God" = table, for instance 03:35:57 well, there are levels most atheists recognize. rejecting Christianity, rejecting deism, rejecting theism 03:36:12 mycroshift, Epicurus or whoever reminds me of that. "If he is neither willing nor able, then why call it god?" 03:36:53 but even if there's not a clear consensus definition-wise, there are things atheists tend to reject and accept which are part of atheism 03:37:24 Sgeo: so a god that knows everything about the present and past, and can do anything that isn't logically contradicting, including interfering with our world 03:37:26 you wouldn't call that god? 03:37:38 epicurus attacked the idea of a BENEVOLENT god 03:37:39 not a god 03:37:49 if you accept godlike powers + lets evil happening 03:37:51 ehird, I didn't say I agreed with Epicurus 03:37:53 then you have a perfectly consistent, evil god 03:38:06 I would call an evil god a god. 03:38:41 Hm, actually, that holds true even if I say that anything evil cannot be a god. Let me rephrase that. 03:39:01 I would call an evil thing "that knows everything about the present and past, and can do anything that isn't logically contradicting, including interfering with our world" a god 03:39:15 lol 03:39:19 way to accept "evil" 03:39:25 but get pissy about "god" 03:40:00 -!- MizardX has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 03:40:11 Do we actually need to define "evil" to use it in context of defining "God"? 03:40:18 uh well i sure hope so 03:40:28 because evil is an even more incoherent and unreal idea than god 03:41:36 only if you don't have a well-defined moral system — but, of course, identifying as having one just makes you whine about groups and philosophy or something. 03:41:52 all that talks about is human beings 03:41:54 Which is an interesting argument. "Evil cannot be defined!" "Well, I have a definition that I use..." "You suck!" 03:42:09 Pthing: in an argument evil obviously means "evil as I perceive it" 03:42:12 you don't get to apply this "evil" to trees or rocks or quasars or gods 03:42:29 ehird, oh well then let's just say god obviously means "god as I percieve Him" and we can all be speechwriters 03:43:00 moral :: Action → Universe → SomeFuzzyIntegerBooleanThing 03:43:51 All this boils down to is that morality and ethics are very hard to deal with in a coherent manner. :P 03:44:21 and therefore are very hard to exist 03:44:23 APPARENTLY 03:44:57 pikhq: well, I'd call my system of ethics WHICH I REFUSE TO NAME BECAUSE OF PTHING :| rather simple... 03:45:24 you should never be ashamed to be yourself :3 03:45:37 i'm just trying to avoid you blabbering :) 03:45:41 *blabbering :) 03:45:56 ehird: Categorical imperative? 03:46:26 CoughcoughuticoughlitarcoughiancoughcoughcoughHACKismCOUGH. 03:46:43 so what 03:46:50 shit, i thought that would dissuade pthing 03:46:51 you can say utilitarianism, i don't give a shit 03:46:57 why do you think i give a shit 03:47:06 Because the last time I did you ranted for 50 days. 03:47:27 you were probably saying something stupid related to utilitarianism that I forget what it was 03:47:45 I only said that my system of morals was consistent and logical. 03:47:48 oh yeah 03:47:51 that is really stupid 03:47:53 Are there any problems with "desire" utilitarianism? 03:47:56 Logical not as in the "everyone should accept it". 03:47:57 03:48:04 Logical as in consistent, so, uh, redundant. 03:48:08 Sgeo: define that 03:48:30 i don't get 03:48:37 how you can even ASSERT a thing like that 03:48:38 Pthing: stfu 03:48:40 * Sgeo looks for where he first read about it 03:48:43 ehird, but how?? 03:48:52 Pthing: Well, utilitarianism is consistent. 03:48:53 it simply is 03:48:56 so what 03:49:00 this is about you 03:49:06 You never run into a situation where something is seemingly both good and bad. 03:49:11 wat 03:49:12 And everyone gets the same results from it. 03:49:17 What other definition do you have of "consistent"? 03:49:41 you talk about "running into situations" but also utilitarianism in the abstract 03:49:52 the problem is that no one situation happens identically the same 03:50:06 That's not relevant to what I said. 03:50:11 why not 03:50:26 if it can't deal with real shit on the ground, it's a pretty terrible system of morals 03:50:33 Sure it can. 03:50:50 Of course it's an approximation. All quick human thought is, more or less. 03:50:59 * Sgeo doesn't find it :/ 03:51:02 beg pardon? 03:51:10 Sgeo: Well, explain it. 03:51:13 what is an approximation to what 03:51:28 Pthing: What you use to "deal with real shit on the ground" is an approximation of utilitarianism. 03:51:31 Let's see if I remember it properly 03:51:38 that is what i would consider a moral response 03:51:40 All quick thought, e.g. when dealing with real shit, on the ground, is essentially an approximation. 03:51:59 the quick thought is all that is the case! 03:52:05 And no systems of morality are truly calculatable in a real senes. 03:52:10 oh well see 03:52:11 They all say "happiness" or "pain" or whatever. 03:52:17 i have this problem that shit actually has to make sense 03:52:19 so 03:52:26 There exist desires and beliefs. A "good" desire is one which helps other desires get accomplished. A "bad" desire is one that hinders other desires. A "good" action is one that could be initiated by someone with a "good" desire, whether or not the desires that actually iniated the action are "good" 03:52:33 I might have gotten it wrong, though 03:52:51 it doesn't really help anyone to be able to assert that like 03:52:55 Sgeo: that doesn't terminate 03:52:58 what are the axiomatic desires 03:53:06 there exists a response in this situation that is consistent with all other responses! 03:53:15 otherwise we'll just have everybody trying to further everyone else's desire to further everyone else's desire to— 03:53:27 ehird, I don't know 03:53:42 http://commonsenseatheism.com/?p=772 is what I think is the source, but I don't remember reading a PDF 03:53:46 I remember reading a webpage 03:53:52 negative utilitarianism seems to be the best; it avoids the Repugnant Conclusion 03:54:02 but is still largely similar to regular utilitarianism 03:54:19 http://commonsenseatheism.com/?p=776 an FAQ, apparently 03:54:31 http://alonzofyfe.com/article_du.shtml this is what I read 03:55:11 also! 03:55:12 ehird 03:55:19 since you bring approximations into it 03:55:24 * Sgeo currently makes no stance as to whether or not it's a helpful system of moralityy 03:55:27 *morality 03:55:33 it follows that you cannot bring *any real situations* into discussions of morality 03:55:40 Pthing: disagree 03:55:42 since they are all approximations, and so introduce errors! 03:55:52 consistency is ruined 03:55:53 i think you're misinterpreting my words and i do not know how to fix that 03:56:00 buy better words 03:57:36 I'd like to buy a word for $10 03:57:49 okay your word is "meaninglessness" 04:02:25 -!- augur has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 04:06:20 -!- ehird has quit. 04:07:08 -!- oerjan_ has joined. 04:08:10 -!- oerjan has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 04:12:46 morning 04:17:29 -!- oerjan_ has quit ("Lost terminal"). 04:30:44 Hmm. Not being on Linux makes me feel uncomfortable. 04:31:09 Even though I've been on Windows for the past... while. 04:33:43 So, I wonder now what distribution I should get. 04:34:00 LFS! 04:34:09 That doesn't sound like it's a distribution. 04:34:35 -!- coppro has joined. 04:35:36 Does LFS mean you download the kernel, BusyBox, wget, gcc, install them, and then do the rest from there? 04:36:35 uorygl: No, it means you do the entire thing from an existing build system. 04:37:00 That too. 04:37:45 So it's what you would do to install Linux on an iPhone. 04:40:57 ... Uh, no. 04:41:17 Read the damned first chapter of the book. 04:44:57 It would be nice if I had the book. Or knew very well that a book existed. 04:52:02 -!- augur has joined. 04:53:06 -!- mycroshift has changed nick to mycroftiv. 05:13:38 "Linux From Scratch" is a book. 05:13:56 It's at linuxfromscratch.org 05:16:06 pikhq, he's offlne 05:16:11 He might not look it, but he is 05:16:24 And I'm going to go eat now 05:39:45 hmm... I've got a new idea 05:39:49 I want an XML format for nomograms 05:40:28 said XML format will have an XSL to turn it into an SVG 05:44:54 pikhq: since ehird isn't here, I hereby declare that the task of deriding my idea falls to you 05:54:34 LFS is the most awesome distribution ever. 05:54:58 LFS: The only distribution that's a book (probably?) 06:06:08 Gregor: fine, you comment 06:41:57 -!- FireyFly has joined. 07:09:07 -!- kar8nga has joined. 07:33:48 -!- FireyFly has changed nick to FireFly. 07:37:09 If this guy goes with multithreading, considering that we're using a non-thread-safe SDK, I'll slap him 07:41:50 there's a book with the source code for minix 07:43:40 Coincidentally, there is also a kook with the source code for minix. (I believe.) 07:47:48 are you calling me a liar 07:47:56 because if you are 07:47:58 i don't get it 07:48:50 incidentally i wonder if tomato juice goes bad if kept for a week in room temperature 07:49:27 Would a regular tomato? (Call you a liar.) 07:50:14 -!- FireFly has quit ("Leaving"). 07:50:43 tastes sorta funny 07:50:53 then again i guess it always does 07:51:53 Aren't those packages supposed to have storage instructions? 07:52:07 oh great idea 07:52:23 i haven't slept yet so sorta have no idea what's going on 07:53:21 once opened blah blah 4 days refrigerator 07:54:04 Then you just have to guess as to what sort of safty factor they've engineered in. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:01:23 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has joined. 08:06:57 -!- bsmntbombgirl has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 08:25:09 what's safty 08:25:44 Safety, misspelteded. 08:26:09 huh. 08:26:20 i think i get it 08:50:33 i feel like vomiting a liter of tomato juice 08:50:35 sleep time -> 08:57:20 -!- scarf_ has joined. 08:57:42 -!- scarf_ has changed nick to scarf. 08:58:47 -!- Pthing has quit (Remote closed the connection). 09:03:38 -!- AnMaster has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 09:05:39 -!- AnMaster has joined. 09:22:34 -!- MizardX has joined. 09:28:58 -!- coppro has quit ("I am leaving. You are about to explode."). 09:54:28 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote closed the connection). 10:03:58 -!- scarf has changed nick to scarf|away. 10:06:55 -!- Pthing has joined. 10:37:18 -!- scarf|away has changed nick to scarf. 11:39:28 -!- rodgort has quit (Client Quit). 11:39:59 -!- rodgort has joined. 11:42:01 -!- cheater has joined. 11:42:08 hiiiiii 11:42:41 hi 11:51:50 -!- Deewiant has quit (K-lined). 12:04:10 -!- zeotrope has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 12:11:32 -!- Pthing has quit (Remote closed the connection). 12:34:34 -!- Deewiant has joined. 12:35:01 hi scarf 12:35:12 hi 12:52:26 -!- zeotrope has joined. 12:56:32 -!- AnMaster has quit (No route to host). 13:27:50 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 13:29:24 -!- FireFly has joined. 13:30:06 -!- Pthing has joined. 13:39:12 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 13:58:20 -!- scarf has quit (Remote closed the connection). 14:01:00 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("Konversation terminated!"). 14:46:50 -!- cheater2 has joined. 14:49:53 -!- Pthing has quit (Remote closed the connection). 14:53:04 -!- cheateur has quit (Connection timed out). 15:30:29 -!- cpressey has joined. 15:57:52 -!- oerjan has joined. 16:07:50 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 16:07:57 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Client Quit). 16:08:13 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 16:26:59 -!- MissPiggy has joined. 17:05:35 Heh, funny; Debian sid upgraded to X.org 7.5, and now when I move my mouse cursor to one of the three monitors and press a key while it's there, X crashes with "Segmentation fault at address 0x38" somewhere under mieqPointerUpdateSprite. 17:06:03 The other two screens work just fine, though. 17:06:07 "Oh well." 17:06:28 Debian sid, AKA Debian "unstable" :) 17:07:12 Yeah, I guess I don't have anyone else to blame. It's just that it is only sporadically when I feel like debugging things like this, not all the time. 17:07:39 Eh, I use sid(ux) 17:07:55 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 17:08:18 I think that crashing screen's the one that's on the integrated Radeon display thing; the other two are on a separate graphics card. It's never really worked all that well. 17:08:54 -!- AnMaster has joined. 17:09:03 In my experience, mix n' match graphics cards is rarely a good idea. 17:09:35 Possibly, but it's the stupid that it's not a good idea; there's no theoretical reason why it shouldn't work. 17:09:58 It's not like I'm trying to do anything very demanding, like some sort of SLI dual-use of non-related cards. 17:10:01 Hello fizzie, welcome to Earth. 17:11:07 lol 17:12:12 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 17:25:12 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has joined. 17:29:44 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 17:29:58 * pikhq returns to the lambda-in-C-ness. 17:30:05 Church numerals, anyone? 17:32:55 Hell, Imma go ahead and make it all explicitly curried, just for the lulz. 17:33:00 -!- AnMaster has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 17:34:33 If I spray-paint a "9" on the wall of the local Episcopalian chapel, does that count? 17:38:00 churchSucc is ugly as hell. 17:38:02 Hooray. 17:38:25 -!- AnMaster has joined. 17:39:04 The only way I could make this uglier is to do thunks. 17:40:57 -!- kar8nga has joined. 17:41:30 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 17:43:19 return lambda(m, (closure m, closure n), return call(call(m,churchSucc),n);); 17:43:26 God, that's awful. 17:53:58 -!- cheater2 has changed nick to cheateur. 18:01:57 * pikhq can has church numerals 18:16:49 http://sprunge.us/WDhU 18:17:32 I've got half a mind to make the xgc_malloc a closure, as well. 18:22:57 pikhq do a lambda calculus meta interp in it? 18:23:27 I'll give you scheme code if you want 18:23:49 Maybe later. 18:46:54 The predecessor function is... Ugly as hell. 18:48:38 The explicit closing doesn't help matters any. 18:54:08 -!- AnMaster_ has joined. 19:04:04 -!- AnMaster has quit (Success). 19:04:29 -!- AnMaster_ has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 19:07:45 http://sprunge.us/CJXC Yeah, that's the most ugly predecessor function I've seen. 19:08:56 -!- AnMaster has joined. 19:17:26 * uorygl blinks at the syntax "closure m" 19:17:57 -!- augur has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 19:19:19 Yeah. 19:26:44 fuck my isp. they changed reverse dns completely today 20:09:45 -!- augur has joined. 20:15:22 AnMaster: in what manner? 20:21:25 SimonRC: Now all the PTR records too resolve names to IPs. 20:21:32 (Disclaimer: speculation.) 20:22:12 I can't remember what PTR records are supposed to do anyway 20:22:53 Point to the names corresponding to the IPs the records are named after. 20:23:41 ok 20:24:00 the .arpa stuff? 20:24:14 Right. 20:24:46 fizzie, no 20:25:03 but it went from *.cust.tele2.se to *.bredband.skanova.se 20:25:10 (modulo spelling) 20:25:14 That is a strange complaint; reorganizing the way dynamic IPs are named sounds like the prerogative of an ISP. 20:25:40 as long as they don't resolve to Church numerals, right? 20:25:52 fizzie, it broke the oper block on an irc network I'm an operator on. 20:25:57 had to ssh in and fix it 20:26:17 AnMaster: Yes, well, that is primarily your fault, for relying on something you had no business to rely on. 20:26:22 also it went from adsl2+ to adsl2 20:26:25 as far as I can tel 20:26:28 tell* 20:26:41 cpressey: Saunalahti (a Finnish ISP) uses (or at least used to use) roman numerals for names for dynamically allocated IPs. 20:26:47 sure I only have 8 mbit down but why would it change like that. 20:27:00 fizzie: nice. 20:27:03 they artificially limited it before, so... 20:28:21 Few lines from last: 20:28:22 htkallas pts/67 Thu Jan 14 11:21 - 11:30 (00:09) mmmdcccxxi.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi 20:28:26 htkallas pts/55 Tue Jan 12 12:58 - 13:10 (00:12) yymmdcxxvi.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi 20:28:29 Okay, "last -a". 20:35:51 "yy"?! 20:36:16 y? I only know M, D, C, L, X, V and I (and the line on top versions).... 20:36:38 I have a feeling Y is their own custom notation for ten thousand. 20:36:40 Maybe it's a really funky date format string. 20:36:41 maybe y = MMMMM MMMMM 20:36:53 SimonRC: MMMM, MARABOU. 20:36:53 y comes after x 20:36:59 ?? 20:37:17 Wonder if there is 'w' also... 20:37:21 SimonRC: http://www.brandsoftheworld.com/catalogue/M/49321.html 20:37:29 It's a brand of chocolate. 20:37:41 ok 20:37:48 not marborou then 20:37:54 *Marlboro 20:38:23 Anyway, it is not perhaps so convenient to have a combining upper-bar or whatever to do an X̅. 20:38:30 In a domain name, I mean. 20:38:38 Even though IDNs do exist, but still. 20:39:13 Go poke the RDNS of those netblocks and see what roman numbers come up? 20:39:54 There's a kmmcdxvii.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi I have used before. 20:40:43 fizzie: Can you find one with both 'y' and 'k'? Any others than [YKMDCXVI] you can find? :-) 20:40:44 -!- augur has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 20:41:05 You can forward-lookup those names and start poking yourself. 20:42:22 Forget X̅, I want whitespace in my domain name. Specifically, tabs. 20:45:11 heh 20:45:21 What, U+2001 is not enough? :-> 20:50:34 Looks like Y is a myriad and K is a half-myriad. 20:50:44 What do those numbers denote, anyway? 20:50:59 In any case, I'd number them as if they were newly-discovered atomic elements. 20:51:30 SimonRC: MMMM, MARABOU. <-- XD 20:51:44 Myriad => 10 000... 20:53:01 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Excess Flood). 20:53:10 cpressey, I want right-to-left override in my dns 20:53:25 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 20:54:10 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Excess Flood). 20:54:36 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 20:55:05 IDN, anyone? 20:55:28 mentioned there above 20:56:36 Oh. That's what I get for reading channel logs in a random order. 21:00:01 Hrm, well; 85.76.191.100 maps to zyyykmmccxcix.dsl.sl-laajakaista.fi. I guess z could be 50000, then. 21:02:04 K is definitely 5000, though: 21:02:05 101.180.76.85.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer ZYYYMMMCMXCIX.dsl.sl-laajakaista.fi. 21:02:08 102.180.76.85.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer ZYYYMK.dsl.sl-laajakaista.fi. 21:04:55 Don't see anything past z yet; 85.76.191.255 is only zyyykmmcdliii.dsl, and the next one (.192.1) is a different block altogether, since that's yymdc.gprs. 21:10:31 zyyykmmcdliii => 87 453 or something? 21:10:42 That's what I think. 21:11:30 Ohhh, and there was that great noise when another dialup ISP had ROT-13'd "silly" (sometimes a bit... questionable) reverse-DNS names for clients. 21:13:11 Things like "gheirahvwn" -rot13-> "turvenuija", which is... can someone who does English more idiomatically provide a translation that captures the tone? 21:14:24 Well, Finnish-speaking folks can take a look at the historical list at http://www.lmmz.net/files/mtv3hosts/hurf/ 21:14:45 Something bit akin to redneck? 21:16:29 There's things like "smelly corpse", "new-media clown", "alcoholic", "jew" (in a derogatory tone), "commie", "rat food", "humanist", "beer gut" and other such less polite names. 21:17:05 "rectal expert", for example. I wonder if someone actually got fired over this stunt. 21:17:58 Oh, there's even separately "humanist" and "computer-illiterate humanist". 21:18:24 Or it is what resulted when someone's logic bomb gone off? 21:18:47 I don't think so; after all, they *were* rot13'd. 21:19:00 fizzie, what is y then? 21:19:16 AnMaster: 10000, wasn't it? 21:20:04 fizzie, ah 21:20:13 Also some of those are just strange (or alternatively I don't know the corresponding slang); for example "abscissa" isn't really especially disparaging, I don't think. 21:20:18 For bit more difficulty, they could have used some random substitutions (same for all names). Those are crackable, but not as simple as rot13. 21:24:13 Their PR release about it at least says it was done by a single employee with a "sick sense of humor" (their words). 21:25:23 heh 21:26:29 last xkcd was quite good btw 21:28:41 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)). 21:28:52 Yes, _really_ sick... 21:31:33 I guess I should play with ADO.NET 21:33:41 Oh, and the second-level names (like "titaa", "taatititi", ...) are single characters in morse code, in alphabetical order, denoting the third IP address byte. (With "ti" = dot, "taa" = dash.) 21:33:56 Or at least almost. 21:43:29 There are many duplicate lowest-level names... There are total of 631 names for 3810 hosts. Only 2 of those names appear only once. 'kannibaali' (cannibal) and 'tremolo' (tremolo?) both appear 13 times. 21:49:51 -!- coppro has joined. 21:58:53 -!- MigoMipo has changed nick to MigoMipo_Zwei. 22:03:28 -!- MigoMipo_Zwei has changed nick to MigoMipo. 22:05:51 -!- augur has joined. 22:18:57 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:19:32 anyone here have experience with SVG? 22:19:39 some 22:20:03 * Sgeo assassinates XML 22:20:07 erm, that was tasteless 22:20:29 I didn't think before I spoke 22:20:55 http://github.com/ <-- "GitHub is Temporarily Offline." huh 22:21:25 * pikhq can has cons cells 22:24:16 AnMaster: The twitter link also gave me a 503 :-) 22:24:26 Deewiant, 503? 22:24:32 Service unavailable 22:24:36 ah yes 22:24:56 Worked on a refresh though. 22:26:53 OpenVPN gets IPv6 in the "tun mode" (in addition to tap devices); openvpn-devel has the behind-the-scenes story: "After planning to force a student to write this part of code (who unfortunately sensed our plot and ran for his life) Gert Doering finally yielded to our begging and promises of beer and wrote the code." 22:29:50 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:30:08 coppro, a little, but only by hand 22:30:23 FireFly: good, I'm looking for help with doing it by hand 22:30:34 I've just generated SVG with Perl. (A match made in heaven!) 22:31:32 fizzie, what is the diff between tun and tap? 22:31:57 I actually used w3schools for learning SVG :| 22:32:04 w3schools is pretty solid 22:32:22 I've heard they're pretty outdated when it comes to JS 22:32:22 I use befunge to generate svg 22:32:29 I'm trying to get my image to center vertically using viewBox 22:32:32 and it's not working :( 22:32:44 FireFly, coppro ^ 22:32:53 AnMaster: "tap" is a virtual ethernet device; you can run anything that Ethernet can carry over it. In contrast, the "tun" device can only tunnel IP packets through, it's a sort of a point-to-point tunnel thing. 22:33:04 fizzie, ah 22:33:06 that is, I want to '0' y coordinate to hit the middle of the screen 22:33:10 AnMaster: hmm? 22:33:23 coppro, I've never used viewbox :P 22:33:31 coppro, TURT is implemented in cfunge (and iirc also ccbi) as generating a svg 22:33:38 Oo 22:33:58 coppro, it is turtle style drawing. Might not suite your needs 22:34:12 no thanks, I'm looking for raw SVG 22:34:26 coppro, iirc it centers nicely 22:34:43 it seems I can get it to work if I make it go 3x as far above the origin as below 22:34:47 but why that is I cannot fathom 22:36:33 hmm 22:39:29 ah, I can use an transform 22:39:46 -!- mycroftiv has quit ("leaving"). 22:44:44 coppro, btw have you seen how bloated the svgs that inkscape produces are? 22:45:01 AnMaster: yes 22:45:06 use cfunge, it produces the very minimum really! 22:45:19 on two lines. One for the doc type, one for the rest 22:45:21 (iirc) 22:47:34 lol 22:47:41 Heap contains 13472 pointer-containing + 4096 pointer-free reachable bytes 22:47:42 seems excessive 22:47:49 Hooray, ridiculously inefficient bignums! 22:48:04 Oo 22:48:28 I use the genx library to do it 22:48:28 so blame it 22:49:52 I'm actually trying to learn SVG so I can write an XSLT to it 22:50:25 *cough* http://codu.org/rxml.php *cough* 22:52:27 haha 22:55:42 Heap contains 13472 pointer-containing + 4096 pointer-free reachable bytes <-- how is it implemented? 22:56:23 Gregor, at least it compresses well 22:58:24 Gregor, reduced to about 2.4% I think 23:02:08 I managed to read the link "Hats" at that page as "Guns". That's rather impressive. 23:02:59 Gregor, famous for wearing a different kind of gun on his head every day, chosen by web-vote. 23:06:29 -!- mycroftiv has joined. 23:13:41 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:18:03 night → 23:19:55 closure l = call(call(gen_list, church0), call(toChurch, 10)); 23:19:58 Whooo.... 23:30:32 pikhq, I'm an atheist! 23:30:38 night really → 23:33:59 Implemented? Why, church numerals! 23:34:48 you should use binary trees of booleans of course 23:35:34 acutally a guy I know worked on the proper representation of integers in dependantly-typed languages 23:35:47 or rather, Nats 23:36:10 I think the answer he (a type theorist) got was 3 cases: 23:36:13 * pikhq tries to figure out why in the world his code is executing: fromChurchBool fromChurchNum 23:36:37 Just... Why? 23:36:59 all zero bits, first half zero and second half a half-the-length number, both halves a half-the-length number 23:37:25 I forget why that slightly odd representation was chosen, but I assume he knew what he was doing 23:38:00 I've read some JFP about efficient binary numerals in lambda calculus, 23:38:42 I think it's just \zw.zzwwwzw for 1011100 23:39:20 doesn't work in a typed calculus though 23:40:34 SimonRC: it looks strange to have a special case for first half zero when you already have a case for all zero... 23:42:35 you'd think there would be multiple representations of the same number then... 23:45:00 anyone familiar with XSLT here? 23:46:06 oerjan: oh, I forgot, there are the obvious restrictions on parts not being zero, to avoid redundancy 23:46:10 coppro: a little 23:46:25 $2 = {func = 0x1, close = 0x0} 23:46:28 That's... Such a wrong closure. 23:46:29 SimonRC: How do I match against an element that is not a member of another? 23:46:32 Such a very, very wrong closure. 23:46:42 coppro: huh? 23:47:04 SimonRC: matches a bar that is a child of foo 23:47:10 I want to match a bar that is /not/ a child of foo 23:47:20 ah 23:48:11 not sure yet 23:48:26 ok 23:49:39 -!- FireFly has quit ("Leaving"). 23:57:21 There is something horribly wrong with this code. 23:57:36 * pikhq was unaware that 0x8 was the address of a closure.